Why “No Regrets” Is Bad Advice | The Happiness Lab Podcast

Hey Happiness Lab listeners, welcome Hey Happiness Lab listeners, welcome back to our happiness hot take series. A back to our happiness hot take series. A back to our happiness hot take series. A whole season in which I call out the bad whole season in which I call out the bad whole season in which I call out the bad happiness advice that I hear so often on happiness advice that I hear so often on happiness advice that I hear so often on the internet. the internet. the internet. In today's happiness hot take, we're In today's happiness hot take, we're In today's happiness hot take, we're going back to the Happiness Lab archives going back to the Happiness Lab archives going back to the Happiness Lab archives to tackle a happiness misconception to tackle a happiness misconception to tackle a happiness misconception that's so common it's even got its own that's so common it's even got its own that's so common it's even got its own hashtag, that we should stand by the bad hashtag, that we should stand by the bad hashtag, that we should stand by the bad decisions we make with confidence, that decisions we make with confidence, that decisions we make with confidence, that we should ignore all those pangs of we should ignore all those pangs of we should ignore all those pangs of remorse that don't feel so hot. Well, today's throwback happiness hot Well, today's throwback happiness hot take is that no regrets is no way to take is that no regrets is no way to take is that no regrets is no way to live. And you'll see why in this in case live. And you'll see why in this in case live. And you'll see why in this in case you missed it episode. I hope you enjoy you missed it episode. I hope you enjoy you missed it episode. I hope you enjoy it. >> I'm going through a breakup right now, >> I'm going through a breakup right now, and so that's and so that's and so that's there's regret in there's regret in there's regret in choosing to be together and there's choosing to be together and there's choosing to be together and there's regret in also choosing to be apart. regret in also choosing to be apart. regret in also choosing to be apart. >> We all replay dumb things we did in the >> We all replay dumb things we did in the >> We all replay dumb things we did in the past. past. past. >> I think a lot of my regret stems from >> I think a lot of my regret stems from >> I think a lot of my regret stems from like school work. Every school year like school work. Every school year like school work. Every school year comes around and I'm like, this year I'm comes around and I'm like, this year I'm comes around and I'm like, this year I'm going to do better and then like I going to do better and then like I going to do better and then like I don't. don't. don't. >> Or fret about the things we didn't do. >> Or fret about the things we didn't do. >> Or fret about the things we didn't do. >> I was afraid to come out for a long time >> I was afraid to come out for a long time >> I was afraid to come out for a long time to my parents. It was that fear of to my parents. It was that fear of to my parents. It was that fear of rejection regardless of whether they rejection regardless of whether they rejection regardless of whether they would have really rejected me. I was would have really rejected me. I was would have really rejected me. I was like hiding myself through two other like hiding myself through two other like hiding myself through two other people and that is something that I people and that is something that I people and that is something that I regret a lot. regret a lot. regret a lot. >> From time to time, >> From time to time, >> [music] >> regret sets up shop in all our heads and >> regret sets up shop in all our heads and >> regret sets up shop in all our heads and makes us wonder about what we coulda, makes us wonder about what we coulda, makes us wonder about what we coulda, shoulda, or woulda done differently. shoulda, or woulda done differently. shoulda, or woulda done differently. >> I've done a lot of mistakes. Like I >> I've done a lot of mistakes. Like I >> I've done a lot of mistakes. Like I spent a lot of money. I paid for a lot spent a lot of money. I paid for a lot spent a lot of money. I paid for a lot of people. I got used by a lot of people of people. I got used by a lot of people of people. I got used by a lot of people and I did not know my worth. and I did not know my worth. and I did not know my worth. >> Our feelings of regret mostly kind of >> Our feelings of regret mostly kind of >> Our feelings of regret mostly kind of suck. suck. suck. We can experience it as a pain, a sort We can experience it as a pain, a sort We can experience it as a pain, a sort of throbbing emotional toothache, of throbbing emotional toothache, of throbbing emotional toothache, but sometimes the anguish of regret but sometimes the anguish of regret but sometimes the anguish of regret reduces us to tears or saddles us with reduces us to tears or saddles us with reduces us to tears or saddles us with grief that lasts a lifetime. [music] grief that lasts a lifetime. [music] grief that lasts a lifetime. [music] >> I was in a relationship and it was very >> I was in a relationship and it was very >> I was in a relationship and it was very toxic. I should have put my foot down toxic. I should have put my foot down toxic. I should have put my foot down way earlier because now it kind of way earlier because now it kind of way earlier because now it kind of affects me to this day and it's just affects me to this day and it's just affects me to this day and it's just like dang, I could have prevented all of like dang, I could have prevented all of like dang, I could have prevented all of this these feelings from happening if I this these feelings from happening if I this these feelings from happening if I just would have left it in the just would have left it in the just would have left it in the beginning. beginning. beginning. >> And so it's natural to fantasize about a >> And so it's natural to fantasize about a >> And so it's natural to fantasize about a life without this painful emotion. To life without this painful emotion. To life without this painful emotion. To strive to be without the burn that comes strive to be without the burn that comes strive to be without the burn that comes from looking back. I mean, who needs from looking back. I mean, who needs from looking back. I mean, who needs regrets? #noregrets regrets? #noregrets regrets? #noregrets >> I do not believe in regrets or have any >> I do not believe in regrets or have any >> I do not believe in regrets or have any regrets in my life. regrets in my life. regrets in my life. My mistakes are me. My mistakes are me. My mistakes are me. >> But is the whole no regrets thing really >> But is the whole no regrets thing really >> But is the whole no regrets thing really right? I mean, could it be possible that right? I mean, could it be possible that right? I mean, could it be possible that embracing regret is the key to living a embracing regret is the key to living a embracing regret is the key to living a better, more authentic, and even a better, more authentic, and even a better, more authentic, and even a happier life? happier life? happier life? Our minds are constantly telling us what Our minds are constantly telling us what Our minds are constantly telling us what [music] to do to be happy, but what if [music] to do to be happy, but what if [music] to do to be happy, but what if our minds are wrong? What if our minds our minds are wrong? What if our minds our minds are wrong? What if our minds are lying to us, leading us away [music] are lying to us, leading us away [music] are lying to us, leading us away [music] from what will really make us happy? from what will really make us happy? from what will really make us happy? The good news is that understanding the The good news is that understanding the The good news is that understanding the science of the mind can point us all science of the mind can point us all science of the mind can point us all back in the right direction. You're back in the right direction. You're back in the right direction. You're listening to The Happiness [music] Lab listening to The Happiness [music] Lab listening to The Happiness [music] Lab with me, Dr. Laurie Santos. >> Hey, I'm Malcolm Gladwell. Here's my >> Hey, I'm Malcolm Gladwell. Here's my regret. regret. regret. When I graduated from college, I had When I graduated from college, I had When I graduated from college, I had this idea that I would spend a year in this idea that I would spend a year in this idea that I would spend a year in Jamaica getting [music] a graduate Jamaica getting [music] a graduate Jamaica getting [music] a graduate degree at the University of West Indies. degree at the University of West Indies. degree at the University of West Indies. My instinct was that my early 20s were My instinct was that my early 20s were My instinct was that my early 20s were the perfect moment to broaden my the perfect moment to broaden my the perfect moment to broaden my horizons, horizons, horizons, >> [music] >> [music] >> [music] >> experience a new culture, and take a >> experience a new culture, and take a >> experience a new culture, and take a risk. risk. risk. Instead, Instead, Instead, I moved to Indiana. [music] I moved to Indiana. [music] I moved to Indiana. [music] Oh man, I blew it. Oh man, I blew it. Oh man, I blew it. >> Life is full of choices, forks in the >> Life is full of choices, forks in the >> Life is full of choices, forks in the road where we have to pick one path or road where we have to pick one path or road where we have to pick one path or the other. the other. the other. >> [music] >> [music] >> [music] >> Sometimes we make those decisions under >> Sometimes we make those decisions under >> Sometimes we make those decisions under pressure, or with incomplete pressure, or with incomplete pressure, or with incomplete information, or at times when we're not information, or at times when we're not information, or at times when we're not our calmest, most rational selves. our calmest, most rational selves. our calmest, most rational selves. And sometimes, once we begin to regret And sometimes, once we begin to regret And sometimes, once we begin to regret the path we've taken, it's too late to the path we've taken, it's too late to the path we've taken, it's too late to turn around. turn around. turn around. That's how it was for author and That's how it was for author and That's how it was for author and illustrator Liz Fosslien. As the child illustrator Liz Fosslien. As the child illustrator Liz Fosslien. As the child of European immigrants, Liz spent a lot of European immigrants, Liz spent a lot of European immigrants, Liz spent a lot of her youth traveling back and forth to of her youth traveling back and forth to of her youth traveling back and forth to visit relatives. visit relatives. visit relatives. >> I just have a lot of happy childhood >> I just have a lot of happy childhood >> I just have a lot of happy childhood memories there, and it felt like a link memories there, and it felt like a link memories there, and it felt like a link to this bigger family that I don't feel to this bigger family that I don't feel to this bigger family that I don't feel that I have in the US. that I have in the US. that I have in the US. >> But with families, it's not always >> But with families, it's not always >> But with families, it's not always vacations and holiday get-togethers. vacations and holiday get-togethers. vacations and holiday get-togethers. There are sometimes emergencies and There are sometimes emergencies and There are sometimes emergencies and bereavements. bereavements. bereavements. >> So, my grandmother died when I was in my >> So, my grandmother died when I was in my >> So, my grandmother died when I was in my early 20s, and my mom, who rarely shows early 20s, and my mom, who rarely shows early 20s, and my mom, who rarely shows emotion or asks for much, asked me to go emotion or asks for much, asked me to go emotion or asks for much, asked me to go with her to pack up the house. with her to pack up the house. with her to pack up the house. >> Liz dropped everything, right? I mean, >> Liz dropped everything, right? I mean, >> Liz dropped everything, right? I mean, she wasn't going to let down her mom at she wasn't going to let down her mom at she wasn't going to let down her mom at the very moment she needed her presence the very moment she needed her presence the very moment she needed her presence and support the most. and support the most. and support the most. >> And I said no. >> And I said no. >> And I said no. >> Liz had just landed a great new >> Liz had just landed a great new >> Liz had just landed a great new consulting job, a position she'd badly consulting job, a position she'd badly consulting job, a position she'd badly wanted and had worked hard to win. wanted and had worked hard to win. wanted and had worked hard to win. >> I was like, I have so much going on at >> I was like, I have so much going on at >> I was like, I have so much going on at work. I just can't take 2 weeks off for work. I just can't take 2 weeks off for work. I just can't take 2 weeks off for an international trip. It's just too an international trip. It's just too an international trip. It's just too much for me to take on right now. much for me to take on right now. much for me to take on right now. >> And so, Liz's mom flew across the >> And so, Liz's mom flew across the >> And so, Liz's mom flew across the Atlantic to deal with the death of her Atlantic to deal with the death of her Atlantic to deal with the death of her mother all alone. mother all alone. mother all alone. Decades later, that decision still Decades later, that decision still Decades later, that decision still causes Liz tremendous anguish. causes Liz tremendous anguish. causes Liz tremendous anguish. >> Like, even now, I I'm like starting to >> Like, even now, I I'm like starting to >> Like, even now, I I'm like starting to get tears in my eyes because I think of get tears in my eyes because I think of get tears in my eyes because I think of my mom alone on this 8-hour plane ride my mom alone on this 8-hour plane ride my mom alone on this 8-hour plane ride to go pack up like her childhood and my to go pack up like her childhood and my to go pack up like her childhood and my childhood and our link to our family. childhood and our link to our family. childhood and our link to our family. >> Though painful, regrets like these are a >> Though painful, regrets like these are a >> Though painful, regrets like these are a creative spur for Liz. creative spur for Liz. creative spur for Liz. Along with author Molly Wusthof, she's Along with author Molly Wusthof, she's Along with author Molly Wusthof, she's part of a duo known online as Liz and part of a duo known online as Liz and part of a duo known online as Liz and Molly. They're responsible for a popular Molly. They're responsible for a popular Molly. They're responsible for a popular Instagram feed of illustrations that Instagram feed of illustrations that Instagram feed of illustrations that show how we can deal with all kinds of show how we can deal with all kinds of show how we can deal with all kinds of painful feelings, the types of things painful feelings, the types of things painful feelings, the types of things that we too often keep to ourselves. that we too often keep to ourselves. that we too often keep to ourselves. >> There's just so much, especially when we >> There's just so much, especially when we >> There's just so much, especially when we talk about big feelings that all of us talk about big feelings that all of us talk about big feelings that all of us are experiencing on a daily basis that are experiencing on a daily basis that are experiencing on a daily basis that we don't share with people. we don't share with people. we don't share with people. >> I'm a huge fan of Liz and Molly's work. >> I'm a huge fan of Liz and Molly's work. >> I'm a huge fan of Liz and Molly's work. I share their simple yet powerful I share their simple yet powerful I share their simple yet powerful cartoons with my students all the time. cartoons with my students all the time. cartoons with my students all the time. >> [music] >> [music] >> [music] >> They're not just poignant, clever, and >> They're not just poignant, clever, and >> They're not just poignant, clever, and funny. They also include lots of funny. They also include lots of funny. They also include lots of science-backed tips for dealing with science-backed tips for dealing with science-backed tips for dealing with those big feelings. those big feelings. those big feelings. So, you can imagine my excitement when I So, you can imagine my excitement when I So, you can imagine my excitement when I heard that the duo were also putting out heard that the duo were also putting out heard that the duo were also putting out a new book. It's called Big Feelings: a new book. It's called Big Feelings: a new book. It's called Big Feelings: How to Be Okay When Things Are Not Okay. How to Be Okay When Things Are Not Okay. How to Be Okay When Things Are Not Okay. The book gives [music] advice for The book gives [music] advice for The book gives [music] advice for navigating seven of our most painful navigating seven of our most painful navigating seven of our most painful negative emotions. negative emotions. negative emotions. The usual emotional culprits, things The usual emotional culprits, things The usual emotional culprits, things like sadness, anger, and even burnout. like sadness, anger, and even burnout. like sadness, anger, and even burnout. But, there's also one that doesn't get But, there's also one that doesn't get But, there's also one that doesn't get as much attention. You guessed it, as much attention. You guessed it, as much attention. You guessed it, regret. regret. regret. >> Research shows that it's one of the most >> Research shows that it's one of the most >> Research shows that it's one of the most common emotions that people feel. I common emotions that people feel. I common emotions that people feel. I think it's after love or something like think it's after love or something like think it's after love or something like that. that. that. >> Some studies estimate that over 90% of >> Some studies estimate that over 90% of >> Some studies estimate that over 90% of people report having severe regret about people report having severe regret about people report having severe regret about some decision they've made in their some decision they've made in their some decision they've made in their lives. Over 90% of people. lives. Over 90% of people. lives. Over 90% of people. That's basically everyone. And yet, one That's basically everyone. And yet, one That's basically everyone. And yet, one of the misconceptions about regret is of the misconceptions about regret is of the misconceptions about regret is that it's actually even possible for us that it's actually even possible for us that it's actually even possible for us to live that #noregrets life. to live that #noregrets life. to live that #noregrets life. >> It's just a completely inaccurate view >> It's just a completely inaccurate view >> It's just a completely inaccurate view of the world. There is no life in which of the world. There is no life in which of the world. There is no life in which you will have no regrets. you will have no regrets. you will have no regrets. >> A second misconception goes something >> A second misconception goes something >> A second misconception goes something like this. like this. like this. Okay, so maybe I can't have a perfectly Okay, so maybe I can't have a perfectly Okay, so maybe I can't have a perfectly #noregrets existence, but I definitely #noregrets existence, but I definitely #noregrets existence, but I definitely be able to have a #mostlynoregrets be able to have a #mostlynoregrets be able to have a #mostlynoregrets life if only I could get everything I life if only I could get everything I life if only I could get everything I want. We assume that if we had the want. We assume that if we had the want. We assume that if we had the perfect job and a swanky house and an perfect job and a swanky house and an perfect job and a swanky house and an amazing partner, we'd never experience amazing partner, we'd never experience amazing partner, we'd never experience that painful twinge of what if. that painful twinge of what if. that painful twinge of what if. But, this too is a spot where our minds But, this too is a spot where our minds But, this too is a spot where our minds are lying to us. are lying to us. are lying to us. >> And part of that is because you can only >> And part of that is because you can only >> And part of that is because you can only choose one life. choose one life. choose one life. >> Even if your current life path is mostly >> Even if your current life path is mostly >> Even if your current life path is mostly awesome, there's probably something awesome, there's probably something awesome, there's probably something great out there in the universe that great out there in the universe that great out there in the universe that you're not going to get a chance to you're not going to get a chance to you're not going to get a chance to experience. Another fork in the road you experience. Another fork in the road you experience. Another fork in the road you could have chosen, but didn't. And could have chosen, but didn't. And could have chosen, but didn't. And sometimes we can't help but regret not sometimes we can't help but regret not sometimes we can't help but regret not taking it. taking it. taking it. >> And we also have a tendency to put on >> And we also have a tendency to put on >> And we also have a tendency to put on rose-colored glasses when we consider rose-colored glasses when we consider rose-colored glasses when we consider that alternate path, especially in that alternate path, especially in that alternate path, especially in moments when our current reality is a moments when our current reality is a moments when our current reality is a little harder. little harder. little harder. >> I feel like we have a lot to learn about >> I feel like we have a lot to learn about >> I feel like we have a lot to learn about regret. So, I decided to call in an regret. So, I decided to call in an regret. So, I decided to call in an expert. expert. expert. >> My name is Daniel Pink. I'm the author >> My name is Daniel Pink. I'm the author >> My name is Daniel Pink. I'm the author of The Power of Regret, How Looking of The Power of Regret, How Looking of The Power of Regret, How Looking Backward Moves Us Forward. Backward Moves Us Forward. Backward Moves Us Forward. >> Daniel developed what he calls the World >> Daniel developed what he calls the World >> Daniel developed what he calls the World Regret Survey, which collected the Regret Survey, which collected the Regret Survey, which collected the experiences of tens of thousands of experiences of tens of thousands of experiences of tens of thousands of people from more than 100 countries. people from more than 100 countries. people from more than 100 countries. It's one of the largest databases of It's one of the largest databases of It's one of the largest databases of regrets ever. regrets ever. regrets ever. >> [music] >> [music] >> [music] >> With all that data to draw on, I was >> With all that data to draw on, I was >> With all that data to draw on, I was hoping that Daniel could give us a bit hoping that Daniel could give us a bit hoping that Daniel could give us a bit of a crash course on regret, starting of a crash course on regret, starting of a crash course on regret, starting with a definition. with a definition. with a definition. >> I think one way to start is that a >> I think one way to start is that a >> I think one way to start is that a regret is an emotion and is an emotion regret is an emotion and is an emotion regret is an emotion and is an emotion that makes us feel bad. And it's emotion that makes us feel bad. And it's emotion that makes us feel bad. And it's emotion that arises from, I think, some really that arises from, I think, some really that arises from, I think, some really fascinating and interesting fascinating and interesting fascinating and interesting powers of our brain. powers of our brain. powers of our brain. >> Regret requires a few complicated and >> Regret requires a few complicated and >> Regret requires a few complicated and possibly unique cognitive abilities. possibly unique cognitive abilities. possibly unique cognitive abilities. The first of these is the ability to The first of these is the ability to The first of these is the ability to accept blame. accept blame. accept blame. Unlike other negative emotions, like, Unlike other negative emotions, like, Unlike other negative emotions, like, say, disappointment, regret requires say, disappointment, regret requires say, disappointment, regret requires agency. agency. agency. We can only regret stuff that we caused. We can only regret stuff that we caused. We can only regret stuff that we caused. >> You experience a regret because it's >> You experience a regret because it's >> You experience a regret because it's your fault. your fault. your fault. >> Regret also requires the capacity to >> Regret also requires the capacity to >> Regret also requires the capacity to time travel. Regret forces us to hop in time travel. Regret forces us to hop in time travel. Regret forces us to hop in a mental time machine and travel back to a mental time machine and travel back to a mental time machine and travel back to some remembered event of the past. And some remembered event of the past. And some remembered event of the past. And once we get there, our brains engage in once we get there, our brains engage in once we get there, our brains engage in a third impressive cognitive feat, what a third impressive cognitive feat, what a third impressive cognitive feat, what Daniel calls fabulism. Daniel calls fabulism. Daniel calls fabulism. >> We imagine making a different decision >> We imagine making a different decision >> We imagine making a different decision than we actually made. And then, what's than we actually made. And then, what's than we actually made. And then, what's even more crazy is that we negate that even more crazy is that we negate that even more crazy is that we negate that experience. We get back in our time experience. We get back in our time experience. We get back in our time machine, we arrive back in the present, machine, we arrive back in the present, machine, we arrive back in the present, and we now see a present that is and we now see a present that is and we now see a present that is reconfigured because of this decision reconfigured because of this decision reconfigured because of this decision that we've undone in the past. that we've undone in the past. that we've undone in the past. >> And that's the final cognitive >> And that's the final cognitive >> And that's the final cognitive superpower we engage in when feeling superpower we engage in when feeling superpower we engage in when feeling regret, what's known as counterfactual regret, what's known as counterfactual regret, what's known as counterfactual thinking. We create a new, completely thinking. We create a new, completely thinking. We create a new, completely imaginary timeline that runs counter to imaginary timeline that runs counter to imaginary timeline that runs counter to the facts. the facts. the facts. >> And there are two kinds of >> And there are two kinds of >> And there are two kinds of counterfactual thinking. One of them is counterfactual thinking. One of them is counterfactual thinking. One of them is known as a downward counterfactual. So, known as a downward counterfactual. So, known as a downward counterfactual. So, that is we imagine how things could have that is we imagine how things could have that is we imagine how things could have been worse. been worse. been worse. >> Downward counterfactuals often involve >> Downward counterfactuals often involve >> Downward counterfactuals often involve the phrase, "Well, at least." So, let's the phrase, "Well, at least." So, let's the phrase, "Well, at least." So, let's say you miss your morning flight because say you miss your morning flight because say you miss your morning flight because you spent too long getting ready. You you spent too long getting ready. You you spent too long getting ready. You might engage in a downward might engage in a downward might engage in a downward counterfactual and say things like, counterfactual and say things like, counterfactual and say things like, "Well, at least there was a later "Well, at least there was a later "Well, at least there was a later flight." or "Well, at least I didn't flight." or "Well, at least I didn't flight." or "Well, at least I didn't miss my connection." miss my connection." miss my connection." Downward counterfactuals help us Downward counterfactuals help us Downward counterfactuals help us remember that it could have been worse. remember that it could have been worse. remember that it could have been worse. They usually make us feel better. They usually make us feel better. They usually make us feel better. But, less helpfully, we also engage in But, less helpfully, we also engage in But, less helpfully, we also engage in upward counterfactuals. upward counterfactuals. upward counterfactuals. >> [music] >> [music] >> [music] >> Which is got to imagine things could >> Which is got to imagine things could >> Which is got to imagine things could have been better. have been better. have been better. >> Upward counterfactuals make us say, >> Upward counterfactuals make us say, >> Upward counterfactuals make us say, [music] "If only." [music] "If only." [music] "If only." "If only I had spent a year in Jamaica." "If only I had spent a year in Jamaica." "If only I had spent a year in Jamaica." "If only I had helped my mom when she "If only I had helped my mom when she "If only I had helped my mom when she needed me." needed me." needed me." "If only I had done this thing or that "If only I had done this thing or that "If only I had done this thing or that thing differently, then everything now thing differently, then everything now thing differently, then everything now would be so much better." would be so much better." would be so much better." >> I kind of regret going to college. I >> I kind of regret going to college. I >> I kind of regret going to college. I might have like ended up, I don't know, might have like ended up, I don't know, might have like ended up, I don't know, working on a flower farm. working on a flower farm. working on a flower farm. >> Upward counterfactuals convince us that >> Upward counterfactuals convince us that >> Upward counterfactuals convince us that we've totally screwed things up. we've totally screwed things up. we've totally screwed things up. They kind of make us feel like crap. They kind of make us feel like crap. They kind of make us feel like crap. And sadly, [music] they also dominate And sadly, [music] they also dominate And sadly, [music] they also dominate our thoughts. our thoughts. our thoughts. >> Oh, cuz I'm a a lawyer. >> Oh, cuz I'm a a lawyer. >> Oh, cuz I'm a a lawyer. But, it would have been nice to find But, it would have been nice to find But, it would have been nice to find something that I'm passionate about. something that I'm passionate about. something that I'm passionate about. >> An actress, a science teacher. Oh, I'm >> An actress, a science teacher. Oh, I'm >> An actress, a science teacher. Oh, I'm going to be a doctor cuz I love health, going to be a doctor cuz I love health, going to be a doctor cuz I love health, nutrition, that kind of stuff. nutrition, that kind of stuff. nutrition, that kind of stuff. >> Researchers have looked at how often we >> Researchers have looked at how often we >> Researchers have looked at how often we use each of these two kinds of use each of these two kinds of use each of these two kinds of counterfactuals. counterfactuals. counterfactuals. Those painful if only counterfactuals, Those painful if only counterfactuals, Those painful if only counterfactuals, they beat out the nicer feeling of at they beat out the nicer feeling of at they beat out the nicer feeling of at least counterfactuals more than 80% of least counterfactuals more than 80% of least counterfactuals more than 80% of the time. the time. the time. >> We are biased on this case toward the >> We are biased on this case toward the >> We are biased on this case toward the negative. We're biased toward the upward negative. We're biased toward the upward negative. We're biased toward the upward counterfactual, toward the if only's. I counterfactual, toward the if only's. I counterfactual, toward the if only's. I think the interesting thing here as we think the interesting thing here as we think the interesting thing here as we try to sort out the puzzle is, you know, try to sort out the puzzle is, you know, try to sort out the puzzle is, you know, why would we do that? why would we do that? why would we do that? Why would we be prone to do something Why would we be prone to do something Why would we be prone to do something that makes us feel worse? And so, there that makes us feel worse? And so, there that makes us feel worse? And so, there must be something about this that must be something about this that must be something about this that confers a benefit. There must be confers a benefit. There must be confers a benefit. There must be something about this that is adaptive. something about this that is adaptive. something about this that is adaptive. >> So, becoming happier must involve >> So, becoming happier must involve >> So, becoming happier must involve banishing those negative if only's, banishing those negative if only's, banishing those negative if only's, right? Well, Daniel argues that wouldn't right? Well, Daniel argues that wouldn't right? Well, Daniel argues that wouldn't be such a smart thing to do. be such a smart thing to do. be such a smart thing to do. >> I'm all for positivity, all right? I'm >> I'm all for positivity, all right? I'm >> I'm all for positivity, all right? I'm all for positive emotions, but here's all for positive emotions, but here's all for positive emotions, but here's the thing. I don't want to have only the thing. I don't want to have only the thing. I don't want to have only positive emotions because negative positive emotions because negative positive emotions because negative emotions serve a function. I think that emotions serve a function. I think that emotions serve a function. I think that no regrets, the philosophy of no regrets no regrets, the philosophy of no regrets no regrets, the philosophy of no regrets that you should never look backward, you that you should never look backward, you that you should never look backward, you should always look forward, never be should always look forward, never be should always look forward, never be negative, always be positive is a negative, always be positive is a negative, always be positive is a profoundly bad idea. I think it is an profoundly bad idea. I think it is an profoundly bad idea. I think it is an unhealthy recipe for living. I think unhealthy recipe for living. I think unhealthy recipe for living. I think what we have to do is actually use our what we have to do is actually use our what we have to do is actually use our regrets as information, a signal, as regrets as information, a signal, as regrets as information, a signal, as data. Not ignore them, not wallow in data. Not ignore them, not wallow in data. Not ignore them, not wallow in them, but use them to help clarify what them, but use them to help clarify what them, but use them to help clarify what we value and instruct us on how to live we value and instruct us on how to live we value and instruct us on how to live better. better. better. >> When we get back from the break, we'll >> When we get back from the break, we'll >> When we get back from the break, we'll explore just how we can use these if explore just how we can use these if explore just how we can use these if only's to live a better life. We'll see only's to live a better life. We'll see only's to live a better life. We'll see that regret can be a critical signpost that regret can be a critical signpost that regret can be a critical signpost for the version of ourselves that we for the version of ourselves that we for the version of ourselves that we most [music] want to be. And we'll see most [music] want to be. And we'll see most [music] want to be. And we'll see that if we better understand that ideal that if we better understand that ideal that if we better understand that ideal self, we can start to use this painful self, we can start to use this painful self, we can start to use this painful emotion to live a healthier, happier, emotion to live a healthier, happier, emotion to live a healthier, happier, and more authentic life. and more authentic life. and more authentic life. The Happiness Lab will be right back. >> I'm Maya Shankar, host of A Slight >> I'm Maya Shankar, host of A Slight Change of Plans. Change of Plans. Change of Plans. >> [music] >> [music] >> [music] >> When I was around 11 years old at summer >> When I was around 11 years old at summer >> When I was around 11 years old at summer music camp, I had the biggest crush on music camp, I had the biggest crush on music camp, I had the biggest crush on another violinist, Shinsuke Sato. He was another violinist, Shinsuke Sato. He was another violinist, Shinsuke Sato. He was cute, a total violin prodigy, and was cute, a total violin prodigy, and was cute, a total violin prodigy, and was really funny, too. I thought maybe he really funny, too. I thought maybe he really funny, too. I thought maybe he liked me as well, but I could never tell liked me as well, but I could never tell liked me as well, but I could never tell for sure. One day, a mutual friend of for sure. One day, a mutual friend of for sure. One day, a mutual friend of ours just asked me point-blank, "Hey, do ours just asked me point-blank, "Hey, do ours just asked me point-blank, "Hey, do you like Shinsuke? I think he might like you like Shinsuke? I think he might like you like Shinsuke? I think he might like you." Shinsuke was in earshot, and I you." Shinsuke was in earshot, and I you." Shinsuke was in earshot, and I remember seeing him lightly smile in remember seeing him lightly smile in remember seeing him lightly smile in response to her question. response to her question. response to her question. But even with that affirmation, I was But even with that affirmation, I was But even with that affirmation, I was too embarrassed and said, "No." too embarrassed and said, "No." too embarrassed and said, "No." He could have been my summer boyfriend, He could have been my summer boyfriend, He could have been my summer boyfriend, but I was too much of a wimp. And it but I was too much of a wimp. And it but I was too much of a wimp. And it took me until I was 19 to actually have took me until I was 19 to actually have took me until I was 19 to actually have my first boyfriend. How different things my first boyfriend. How different things my first boyfriend. How different things could have been for me. could have been for me. could have been for me. Regrets can feel so troubling that we'd Regrets can feel so troubling that we'd Regrets can feel so troubling that we'd move mountains to change things. move mountains to change things. move mountains to change things. >> Like I would give a lot, a lot, a lot of >> Like I would give a lot, a lot, a lot of >> Like I would give a lot, a lot, a lot of money to go back and make a different money to go back and make a different money to go back and make a different decision. decision. decision. >> Liz Fosslien still hurts when she >> Liz Fosslien still hurts when she >> Liz Fosslien still hurts when she reflects on her grandmother's death and reflects on her grandmother's death and reflects on her grandmother's death and not being there for her grieving mother. not being there for her grieving mother. not being there for her grieving mother. But Liz argues that experiencing the But Liz argues that experiencing the But Liz argues that experiencing the painful big feelings that come with painful big feelings that come with painful big feelings that come with regret have helped her to learn what regret have helped her to learn what regret have helped her to learn what really matters in life. really matters in life. really matters in life. >> Remembering how painful it was, it >> Remembering how painful it was, it >> Remembering how painful it was, it wasn't just regret, it was pain, it was wasn't just regret, it was pain, it was wasn't just regret, it was pain, it was shame, it was guilt, it was all these shame, it was guilt, it was all these shame, it was guilt, it was all these sort of really, really thorny, difficult sort of really, really thorny, difficult sort of really, really thorny, difficult feelings that were welling inside me. feelings that were welling inside me. feelings that were welling inside me. But that really, really clarified the But that really, really clarified the But that really, really clarified the decisions I wanted to make going decisions I wanted to make going decisions I wanted to make going forward. forward. forward. >> Liz tackled this idea in a recent Liz >> Liz tackled this idea in a recent Liz >> Liz tackled this idea in a recent Liz and Molly comic on Instagram. and Molly comic on Instagram. and Molly comic on Instagram. In it, a tiny, dejected-looking figure In it, a tiny, dejected-looking figure In it, a tiny, dejected-looking figure looks regretfully back into the past. looks regretfully back into the past. looks regretfully back into the past. But another similar figure turns to the But another similar figure turns to the But another similar figure turns to the future and asks, "What if I do things future and asks, "What if I do things future and asks, "What if I do things differently from now on?" differently from now on?" differently from now on?" >> [music] >> [music] >> [music] >> Liz and Molly then quote the author, >> Liz and Molly then quote the author, >> Liz and Molly then quote the author, Augusten Burroughs, "To live in regret Augusten Burroughs, "To live in regret Augusten Burroughs, "To live in regret and change nothing else in your life is and change nothing else in your life is and change nothing else in your life is to miss the entire point." to miss the entire point." to miss the entire point." And the science shows that this is one And the science shows that this is one And the science shows that this is one of the big benefits of being a creature of the big benefits of being a creature of the big benefits of being a creature that can feel regret. [music] that can feel regret. [music] that can feel regret. [music] Our regrets can help us to better Our regrets can help us to better Our regrets can help us to better understand the kind of people we want to understand the kind of people we want to understand the kind of people we want to be be be even if we're not currently living up to even if we're not currently living up to even if we're not currently living up to those standards. [music] those standards. [music] those standards. [music] Just as our brains are good at Just as our brains are good at Just as our brains are good at simulating imaginary counterfactual simulating imaginary counterfactual simulating imaginary counterfactual situations, [music] situations, [music] situations, [music] say, asking out that person we liked but say, asking out that person we liked but say, asking out that person we liked but never spoke to or going to graduate never spoke to or going to graduate never spoke to or going to graduate school in the Caribbean rather than school in the Caribbean rather than school in the Caribbean rather than working in Indiana, working in Indiana, working in Indiana, >> [music] >> [music] >> [music] >> so too can our brains simulate imaginary >> so too can our brains simulate imaginary >> so too can our brains simulate imaginary counterfactual versions of ourselves. counterfactual versions of ourselves. counterfactual versions of ourselves. When I'm having a tough day as a When I'm having a tough day as a When I'm having a tough day as a professor, professor, professor, >> [music] >> [music] >> [music] >> I might simulate a version of Laurie >> I might simulate a version of Laurie >> I might simulate a version of Laurie who's an astronaut or a veterinarian or who's an astronaut or a veterinarian or who's an astronaut or a veterinarian or a beach bum. a beach bum. a beach bum. Perhaps more usefully, [music] Perhaps more usefully, [music] Perhaps more usefully, [music] I can also simulate a better version of I can also simulate a better version of I can also simulate a better version of Laurie who doesn't skip her workouts, Laurie who doesn't skip her workouts, Laurie who doesn't skip her workouts, who never [music] spends too much time who never [music] spends too much time who never [music] spends too much time on social media, and who always gets on social media, and who always gets on social media, and who always gets enough sleep. enough sleep. enough sleep. Research has found that paying attention Research has found that paying attention Research has found that paying attention to the different kinds of better selves to the different kinds of better selves to the different kinds of better selves we simulate [music] can help us to make we simulate [music] can help us to make we simulate [music] can help us to make choices that could ultimately make us choices that could ultimately make us choices that could ultimately make us happier. happier. happier. Back in the 1980s, Columbia University Back in the 1980s, Columbia University Back in the 1980s, Columbia University psychologist [music] Tory Higgins psychologist [music] Tory Higgins psychologist [music] Tory Higgins proposed an idea he called proposed an idea he called proposed an idea he called self-discrepancy theory. self-discrepancy theory. self-discrepancy theory. It started from the observation that It started from the observation that It started from the observation that [music] people tend to compare their [music] people tend to compare their [music] people tend to compare their real actual self to two very different real actual self to two very different real actual self to two very different kinds of model selves. kinds of model selves. kinds of model selves. The first is what he called the ideal The first is what he called the ideal The first is what he called the ideal self. Your ideal self is the truest, self. Your ideal self is the truest, self. Your ideal self is the truest, most authentic version of you. Ideal you most authentic version of you. Ideal you most authentic version of you. Ideal you ignores what society says and fearlessly ignores what society says and fearlessly ignores what society says and fearlessly shoots for all your hopes, dreams, and shoots for all your hopes, dreams, and shoots for all your hopes, dreams, and aspirations. aspirations. aspirations. Liz knew exactly what her ideal self Liz knew exactly what her ideal self Liz knew exactly what her ideal self wanted. wanted. wanted. >> So, this is the career that makes you >> So, this is the career that makes you >> So, this is the career that makes you come alive versus the career that you come alive versus the career that you come alive versus the career that you feel pressured to pursue. feel pressured to pursue. feel pressured to pursue. >> But, we also fantasize about a second >> But, we also fantasize about a second >> But, we also fantasize about a second counterfactual self, the ought self. counterfactual self, the ought self. counterfactual self, the ought self. The ought self is all about duty, The ought self is all about duty, The ought self is all about duty, obligation, and doing what's expected of obligation, and doing what's expected of obligation, and doing what's expected of you. you. you. >> So, for me, that is being a doctor. My >> So, for me, that is being a doctor. My >> So, for me, that is being a doctor. My parents are both immigrants, academics. parents are both immigrants, academics. parents are both immigrants, academics. It was very much like, "Doctor, banker, It was very much like, "Doctor, banker, It was very much like, "Doctor, banker, lawyer, that is success." lawyer, that is success." lawyer, that is success." >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> My own ought self is a me that never >> My own ought self is a me that never >> My own ought self is a me that never takes a break. That Laurie is a takes a break. That Laurie is a takes a break. That Laurie is a perfectionist who has the perfect body perfectionist who has the perfect body perfectionist who has the perfect body and great clothes and a flawlessly clean and great clothes and a flawlessly clean and great clothes and a flawlessly clean house. house. house. But, ideal Laurie has a completely But, ideal Laurie has a completely But, ideal Laurie has a completely different set of aspirations. Ideal different set of aspirations. Ideal different set of aspirations. Ideal Laurie does want to do good work in the Laurie does want to do good work in the Laurie does want to do good work in the world, but she also wants to take care world, but she also wants to take care world, but she also wants to take care of herself and live her dreams. of herself and live her dreams. of herself and live her dreams. >> And the ought self and the ideal self >> And the ought self and the ideal self >> And the ought self and the ideal self sometimes require you to pick two very sometimes require you to pick two very sometimes require you to pick two very different paths. different paths. different paths. >> When Liz's grandmother died far away >> When Liz's grandmother died far away >> When Liz's grandmother died far away across the ocean, ideal Liz and ought across the ocean, ideal Liz and ought across the ocean, ideal Liz and ought Liz clashed about what to do next. Liz's Liz clashed about what to do next. Liz's Liz clashed about what to do next. Liz's ideal self would have hands down risked ideal self would have hands down risked ideal self would have hands down risked upsetting her new bosses to help her mom upsetting her new bosses to help her mom upsetting her new bosses to help her mom in that moment of grief. in that moment of grief. in that moment of grief. >> The ideal self is someone who shows up >> The ideal self is someone who shows up >> The ideal self is someone who shows up for the people that I care about in the for the people that I care about in the for the people that I care about in the moments that really matter. moments that really matter. moments that really matter. >> But, her ought self won out. Rather than >> But, her ought self won out. Rather than >> But, her ought self won out. Rather than following her heart and going to the following her heart and going to the following her heart and going to the airport, she headed to the office. airport, she headed to the office. airport, she headed to the office. >> I really felt like I could not fail, >> I really felt like I could not fail, >> I really felt like I could not fail, especially early on in this job, especially early on in this job, especially early on in this job, otherwise it would ruin my career otherwise it would ruin my career otherwise it would ruin my career forever. And looking back now, I totally forever. And looking back now, I totally forever. And looking back now, I totally understand that that was ridiculous understand that that was ridiculous understand that that was ridiculous catastrophic thinking. And there are catastrophic thinking. And there are catastrophic thinking. And there are many examples of this in my early 20s. many examples of this in my early 20s. many examples of this in my early 20s. Like I cannot believe some of the things Like I cannot believe some of the things Like I cannot believe some of the things I did. I did. I did. >> Like the time Liz passed out and spent >> Like the time Liz passed out and spent >> Like the time Liz passed out and spent the night in the hospital. the night in the hospital. the night in the hospital. The next morning, her aunt self The next morning, her aunt self The next morning, her aunt self convinced her that she needed to go to convinced her that she needed to go to convinced her that she needed to go to work anyway. work anyway. work anyway. >> And I looked terrible. And my boss asked >> And I looked terrible. And my boss asked >> And I looked terrible. And my boss asked what had happened, and I briefly what had happened, and I briefly what had happened, and I briefly mentioned that I had been in the ER, and mentioned that I had been in the ER, and mentioned that I had been in the ER, and he just stared at me and was like, he just stared at me and was like, he just stared at me and was like, "You need to go home. This is not okay "You need to go home. This is not okay "You need to go home. This is not okay that you are here." But again, it was a that you are here." But again, it was a that you are here." But again, it was a similar compulsion of like, I have to be similar compulsion of like, I have to be similar compulsion of like, I have to be present. I have to be showing up. present. I have to be showing up. present. I have to be showing up. >> So given that we have these two >> So given that we have these two >> So given that we have these two different imaginary versions of different imaginary versions of different imaginary versions of ourselves on our shoulders, each ourselves on our shoulders, each ourselves on our shoulders, each screaming different things, which one screaming different things, which one screaming different things, which one should we listen to? Well, Tory Higgins should we listen to? Well, Tory Higgins should we listen to? Well, Tory Higgins found that ignoring either of these found that ignoring either of these found that ignoring either of these voices doesn't feel great in the short voices doesn't feel great in the short voices doesn't feel great in the short term. term. term. If Liz had flown to Europe, she'd If Liz had flown to Europe, she'd If Liz had flown to Europe, she'd probably have worried about her job as probably have worried about her job as probably have worried about her job as soon as the airplane left the tarmac. soon as the airplane left the tarmac. soon as the airplane left the tarmac. But research shows that when it comes to But research shows that when it comes to But research shows that when it comes to long-term regrets, the severe kind that long-term regrets, the severe kind that long-term regrets, the severe kind that give us anguish years after the fact, give us anguish years after the fact, give us anguish years after the fact, they're much more likely to stem from they're much more likely to stem from they're much more likely to stem from ignoring the person we ideally want to ignoring the person we ideally want to ignoring the person we ideally want to be. be. be. >> If you pursue the path that brings you >> If you pursue the path that brings you >> If you pursue the path that brings you closer to your ideal self, you tend to closer to your ideal self, you tend to closer to your ideal self, you tend to be happier. If confronted with, "Hey, be happier. If confronted with, "Hey, be happier. If confronted with, "Hey, this is the job that really sings to my this is the job that really sings to my this is the job that really sings to my soul, versus this is the job that soul, versus this is the job that soul, versus this is the job that everyone has expected me to take, but everyone has expected me to take, but everyone has expected me to take, but the thought of taking it actually fills the thought of taking it actually fills the thought of taking it actually fills me with a deep existential dread," me with a deep existential dread," me with a deep existential dread," you should go with the ideal self job. you should go with the ideal self job. you should go with the ideal self job. >> It may sound grim, but people at the >> It may sound grim, but people at the >> It may sound grim, but people at the very end of life bear out this very end of life bear out this very end of life bear out this observation. Palliative nurse Bronnie observation. Palliative nurse Bronnie observation. Palliative nurse Bronnie Ware had years [music] of experience Ware had years [music] of experience Ware had years [music] of experience living with patients in their final living with patients in their final living with patients in their final weeks, and she repeatedly witnessed the weeks, and she repeatedly witnessed the weeks, and she repeatedly witnessed the pain and anguish of their regrets. pain and anguish of their regrets. pain and anguish of their regrets. >> [music] >> [music] >> [music] >> "I wouldn't wish it on anyone," she once >> "I wouldn't wish it on anyone," she once >> "I wouldn't wish it on anyone," she once said. said. said. Moved by their stories and hopeful to Moved by their stories and hopeful to Moved by their stories and hopeful to share the wisdom she'd gained from her share the wisdom she'd gained from her share the wisdom she'd gained from her patients, she wrote a best-selling book patients, she wrote a best-selling book patients, she wrote a best-selling book called The [music] Top Five Regrets of called The [music] Top Five Regrets of called The [music] Top Five Regrets of the Dying. the Dying. the Dying. All of the top five regrets Ware shares All of the top five regrets Ware shares All of the top five regrets Ware shares in her book involve disappointing the in her book involve disappointing the in her book involve disappointing the ideal self [music] rather than the aunt ideal self [music] rather than the aunt ideal self [music] rather than the aunt self. The dying regret not being self. The dying regret not being self. The dying regret not being emotionally available to their friends emotionally available to their friends emotionally available to their friends and loved ones, being too devoted to and loved ones, being too devoted to and loved ones, being too devoted to proving themselves at work, and caring proving themselves at work, and caring proving themselves at work, and caring too much about what other people think. too much about what other people think. too much about what other people think. Social psychologists Tom Gilovich and Social psychologists Tom Gilovich and Social psychologists Tom Gilovich and Shai David Ai did a more empirically Shai David Ai did a more empirically Shai David Ai did a more empirically based survey of long-term regrets. based survey of long-term regrets. based survey of long-term regrets. They studied a very different cohort of They studied a very different cohort of They studied a very different cohort of people, people, people, >> [music] >> [music] >> [music] >> not the terminally ill, but everyone >> not the terminally ill, but everyone >> not the terminally ill, but everyone from college students to residents in an from college students to residents in an from college students to residents in an old age home. People's regrets about not old age home. People's regrets about not old age home. People's regrets about not living up to the person they ideally living up to the person they ideally living up to the person they ideally wanted to be far outnumbered their wanted to be far outnumbered their wanted to be far outnumbered their regrets about not living up to what they regrets about not living up to what they regrets about not living up to what they ought to do to please bosses, neighbors, ought to do to please bosses, neighbors, ought to do to please bosses, neighbors, or the wider society. Finding things or the wider society. Finding things or the wider society. Finding things like these have shaped how Liz now like these have shaped how Liz now like these have shaped how Liz now listens to her two different listens to her two different listens to her two different counterfactual selves. counterfactual selves. counterfactual selves. >> When I'm faced with something and when I >> When I'm faced with something and when I >> When I'm faced with something and when I have this little voice within me that have this little voice within me that have this little voice within me that says like, "Oh, but work is really busy says like, "Oh, but work is really busy says like, "Oh, but work is really busy this week." I'm like, "No, remember the this week." I'm like, "No, remember the this week." I'm like, "No, remember the pain that you're trying to avoid in the pain that you're trying to avoid in the pain that you're trying to avoid in the future. future. future. >> [music] >> [music] >> [music] >> Just put that sort of perfectionist >> Just put that sort of perfectionist >> Just put that sort of perfectionist ought self to the side and go show up ought self to the side and go show up ought self to the side and go show up because that's what's going to That's because that's what's going to That's because that's what's going to That's what you're going to remember in 10 what you're going to remember in 10 what you're going to remember in 10 years." I truly do not know what I was years." I truly do not know what I was years." I truly do not know what I was doing at work that week. I can tell you doing at work that week. I can tell you doing at work that week. I can tell you nothing about the project I was working nothing about the project I was working nothing about the project I was working on, about how it turned out. It just on, about how it turned out. It just on, about how it turned out. It just wasn't as important in the long run. wasn't as important in the long run. wasn't as important in the long run. >> Liz is now convinced that past regrets >> Liz is now convinced that past regrets >> Liz is now convinced that past regrets are great learning points. That recent are great learning points. That recent are great learning points. That recent Liz and Molly cartoon I mentioned also Liz and Molly cartoon I mentioned also Liz and Molly cartoon I mentioned also included an important quote. Regrets can included an important quote. Regrets can included an important quote. Regrets can be burned as fuel. But, regrets burn be burned as fuel. But, regrets burn be burned as fuel. But, regrets burn hot, and we can only become better hot, and we can only become better hot, and we can only become better people if we're committed to directly people if we're committed to directly people if we're committed to directly embracing our regrets and the pain they embracing our regrets and the pain they embracing our regrets and the pain they cause. cause. cause. >> Because I think when we do that, there's >> Because I think when we do that, there's >> Because I think when we do that, there's a lot of evidence that it is a a lot of evidence that it is a a lot of evidence that it is a powerfully transformative emotion. powerfully transformative emotion. powerfully transformative emotion. >> The Happiness Lab will be right back. >> The Happiness Lab will be right back. >> The Happiness Lab will be right back. [music] >> I'm Jacob Goldstein. I host a podcast >> I'm Jacob Goldstein. I host a podcast called What's Your Problem? And when I called What's Your Problem? And when I called What's Your Problem? And when I was in my 20s, I regretted pretty much was in my 20s, I regretted pretty much was in my 20s, I regretted pretty much everything [music] everything [music] everything [music] all the time. It got to the point where all the time. It got to the point where all the time. It got to the point where anytime I had to make a big decision, I anytime I had to make a big decision, I anytime I had to make a big decision, I would be paralyzed by the fear that I would be paralyzed by the fear that I would be paralyzed by the fear that I would regret whatever choice I made. It would regret whatever choice I made. It would regret whatever choice I made. It was like pre-regret. [music] was like pre-regret. [music] was like pre-regret. [music] Pregret. Eventually, I I mostly got past Pregret. Eventually, I I mostly got past Pregret. Eventually, I I mostly got past it. I came to trust myself more, feel it. I came to trust myself more, feel it. I came to trust myself more, feel better about my decisions. Regret, better about my decisions. Regret, better about my decisions. Regret, thankfully, is no longer a big part of thankfully, is no longer a big part of thankfully, is no longer a big part of my life. But, I guess I do still regret my life. But, I guess I do still regret my life. But, I guess I do still regret a little that I spent so many years of a little that I spent so many years of a little that I spent so many years of my life living in fear of regret. my life living in fear of regret. my life living in fear of regret. >> One of the interesting things about >> One of the interesting things about >> One of the interesting things about regret is that people want the regret is that people want the regret is that people want the instruction that comes from regret. They instruction that comes from regret. They instruction that comes from regret. They just don't want the bad feeling. And and just don't want the bad feeling. And and just don't want the bad feeling. And and that and that's not the offer that's on that and that's not the offer that's on that and that's not the offer that's on the table here. the table here. the table here. >> If we can tough out the discomfort, >> If we can tough out the discomfort, >> If we can tough out the discomfort, author Daniel Pink thinks we can learn author Daniel Pink thinks we can learn author Daniel Pink thinks we can learn valuable lessons from our regrets. valuable lessons from our regrets. valuable lessons from our regrets. >> If we get past this kind of fog machine >> If we get past this kind of fog machine >> If we get past this kind of fog machine that we should never have regrets, that that we should never have regrets, that that we should never have regrets, that we should always be positive, we can we should always be positive, we can we should always be positive, we can look at this emotion and say it's look at this emotion and say it's look at this emotion and say it's telling us something, it's teaching us telling us something, it's teaching us telling us something, it's teaching us something. And if we actually think something. And if we actually think something. And if we actually think about our regrets differently, we can about our regrets differently, we can about our regrets differently, we can enlist them to lead a better, more enlist them to lead a better, more enlist them to lead a better, more fulfilling, more satisfying life. fulfilling, more satisfying life. fulfilling, more satisfying life. >> Daniel's extensive survey of regrets >> Daniel's extensive survey of regrets >> Daniel's extensive survey of regrets around the world taught him that the around the world taught him that the around the world taught him that the only way to learn from this painful only way to learn from this painful only way to learn from this painful emotion is to let ourselves feel it. As emotion is to let ourselves feel it. As emotion is to let ourselves feel it. As much as we'd like to, we can't fast much as we'd like to, we can't fast much as we'd like to, we can't fast forward through the painful parts of our forward through the painful parts of our forward through the painful parts of our regrets. regrets. regrets. >> The reason they make us do better is >> The reason they make us do better is >> The reason they make us do better is because they make us feel worse. because they make us feel worse. because they make us feel worse. >> And once you experience the pain, you >> And once you experience the pain, you >> And once you experience the pain, you can commit to doing better. can commit to doing better. can commit to doing better. But, how? But, how? But, how? Daniel says the first step is Daniel says the first step is Daniel says the first step is determining the specific category of determining the specific category of determining the specific category of regret you're dealing with. regret you're dealing with. regret you're dealing with. >> So, there's an interesting distinction >> So, there's an interesting distinction >> So, there's an interesting distinction in in the architecture of regret, which in in the architecture of regret, which in in the architecture of regret, which is the distinction between action is the distinction between action is the distinction between action regrets and inaction regrets. Regrets regrets and inaction regrets. Regrets regrets and inaction regrets. Regrets about what we did and regrets about what about what we did and regrets about what about what we did and regrets about what we didn't do. So, let's take action we didn't do. So, let's take action we didn't do. So, let's take action regrets, regrets about what I did. Those regrets, regrets about what I did. Those regrets, regrets about what I did. Those are things that you can undo. are things that you can undo. are things that you can undo. >> When I think of such situations, I'm >> When I think of such situations, I'm >> When I think of such situations, I'm reminded of the advice of life coach reminded of the advice of life coach reminded of the advice of life coach Valerie Burton, who I spoke to for a Valerie Burton, who I spoke to for a Valerie Burton, who I spoke to for a previous episode about dealing with previous episode about dealing with previous episode about dealing with guilt. guilt. guilt. Valerie said that the first steps to Valerie said that the first steps to Valerie said that the first steps to dealing with our action regrets are to dealing with our action regrets are to dealing with our action regrets are to admit what we've done, assess the damage admit what we've done, assess the damage admit what we've done, assess the damage done, apologize for our actions, and done, apologize for our actions, and done, apologize for our actions, and then atone as best we can. then atone as best we can. then atone as best we can. So, if If saying something mean to a So, if If saying something mean to a So, if If saying something mean to a friend, you should apologize. friend, you should apologize. friend, you should apologize. If you carelessly broke your work If you carelessly broke your work If you carelessly broke your work buddy's favorite mug, you should buy buddy's favorite mug, you should buy buddy's favorite mug, you should buy them a new one. them a new one. them a new one. Undoing doesn't mean erasing what you Undoing doesn't mean erasing what you Undoing doesn't mean erasing what you did, but you can acknowledge your did, but you can acknowledge your did, but you can acknowledge your actions and make amends for the damage, actions and make amends for the damage, actions and make amends for the damage, at least a bit. at least a bit. at least a bit. But if the regret you're experiencing But if the regret you're experiencing But if the regret you're experiencing stems from an inaction, something you stems from an inaction, something you stems from an inaction, something you didn't do yet, didn't do yet, didn't do yet, >> [music] >> [music] >> [music] >> then the solution is also clear. >> then the solution is also clear. >> then the solution is also clear. If possible, you should do the thing you If possible, you should do the thing you If possible, you should do the thing you haven't gotten around to doing yet. haven't gotten around to doing yet. haven't gotten around to doing yet. As the old saying goes, the best time to As the old saying goes, the best time to As the old saying goes, the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, but the plant a tree was 20 years ago, but the plant a tree was 20 years ago, but the second best time is now. second best time is now. second best time is now. >> [music] >> [music] >> [music] >> Daniel survey results demonstrated the >> Daniel survey results demonstrated the >> Daniel survey results demonstrated the importance of fixing inactions as soon importance of fixing inactions as soon importance of fixing inactions as soon as possible. as possible. as possible. One of the biggest domains in which One of the biggest domains in which One of the biggest domains in which Daniel observed the painful consequences Daniel observed the painful consequences Daniel observed the painful consequences of inaction regrets was in our social of inaction regrets was in our social of inaction regrets was in our social relationships. relationships. relationships. >> Which are, if only I'd reached out, and >> Which are, if only I'd reached out, and >> Which are, if only I'd reached out, and the typical pattern was a relationship the typical pattern was a relationship the typical pattern was a relationship comes apart, comes apart, comes apart, usually in very, very undramatic ways. usually in very, very undramatic ways. usually in very, very undramatic ways. It's like there's not yelling and It's like there's not yelling and It's like there's not yelling and screaming and there's this like things screaming and there's this like things screaming and there's this like things drift apart. Your relationship drifts drift apart. Your relationship drifts drift apart. Your relationship drifts apart. And then what happens is that one apart. And then what happens is that one apart. And then what happens is that one person wants to reach out and they say, person wants to reach out and they say, person wants to reach out and they say, "Ah, it's going to be really awkward if "Ah, it's going to be really awkward if "Ah, it's going to be really awkward if I reach out and the other side's not I reach out and the other side's not I reach out and the other side's not going to care." So they don't. Then they going to care." So they don't. Then they going to care." So they don't. Then they wait a few more years and they say, "Oh, wait a few more years and they say, "Oh, wait a few more years and they say, "Oh, now it's going to be even more awkward now it's going to be even more awkward now it's going to be even more awkward and they're going to care even less." So and they're going to care even less." So and they're going to care even less." So they don't. And so people are making a I they don't. And so people are making a I they don't. And so people are making a I think a pretty profound misjudgment. think a pretty profound misjudgment. think a pretty profound misjudgment. They say it's going to be awkward and it They say it's going to be awkward and it They say it's going to be awkward and it turns out to be way less awkward than turns out to be way less awkward than turns out to be way less awkward than they think. And they say the other they think. And they say the other they think. And they say the other side's not going to care and the other side's not going to care and the other side's not going to care and the other side almost always cares. If you are at side almost always cares. If you are at side almost always cares. If you are at a juncture a juncture a juncture where you're wondering, "Should I reach where you're wondering, "Should I reach where you're wondering, "Should I reach out or should I not reach out?" out or should I not reach out?" out or should I not reach out?" To my mind, being at that juncture has To my mind, being at that juncture has To my mind, being at that juncture has answered the question. Always reach out. answered the question. Always reach out. answered the question. Always reach out. And I think it's very clear when we look And I think it's very clear when we look And I think it's very clear when we look prospectively prospectively prospectively that if you don't reach out, you're that if you don't reach out, you're that if you don't reach out, you're going to regret it. And I have too many going to regret it. And I have too many going to regret it. And I have too many stories of people who didn't reach out stories of people who didn't reach out stories of people who didn't reach out and then it was too late because and then it was too late because and then it was too late because somebody passed away. somebody passed away. somebody passed away. >> But you might be left asking, "How can >> But you might be left asking, "How can >> But you might be left asking, "How can we deal with regrets that we can't fix? we deal with regrets that we can't fix? we deal with regrets that we can't fix? Those hurts that we caused to people who Those hurts that we caused to people who Those hurts that we caused to people who are no longer with us, or some stranger are no longer with us, or some stranger are no longer with us, or some stranger we hurt, or mistakes that we can't undo, we hurt, or mistakes that we can't undo, we hurt, or mistakes that we can't undo, or cases where enough time has passed or cases where enough time has passed or cases where enough time has passed that we simply can't complete the that we simply can't complete the that we simply can't complete the actions we failed to do before. actions we failed to do before. actions we failed to do before. Daniel argues that situations like these Daniel argues that situations like these Daniel argues that situations like these require changes in how we think. require changes in how we think. require changes in how we think. We first need to normalize the fact that We first need to normalize the fact that We first need to normalize the fact that we messed up and commit to not beating we messed up and commit to not beating we messed up and commit to not beating ourselves up over it. ourselves up over it. ourselves up over it. >> One of the most important things you can >> One of the most important things you can >> One of the most important things you can do when you screw up is treat yourself do when you screw up is treat yourself do when you screw up is treat yourself with self-compassion. Treat yourself with self-compassion. Treat yourself with self-compassion. Treat yourself with kindness rather than contempt. with kindness rather than contempt. with kindness rather than contempt. Recognize that your mistakes are part of Recognize that your mistakes are part of Recognize that your mistakes are part of the human condition. the human condition. the human condition. >> And when engaging in this more >> And when engaging in this more >> And when engaging in this more compassionate self-talk, we can also use compassionate self-talk, we can also use compassionate self-talk, we can also use the power of specific words to better the power of specific words to better the power of specific words to better see the lessons that come from our see the lessons that come from our see the lessons that come from our mistakes. mistakes. mistakes. Like, for example, harnessing that less Like, for example, harnessing that less Like, for example, harnessing that less painful counterfactual phrase that painful counterfactual phrase that painful counterfactual phrase that allows us to feel better. At least. allows us to feel better. At least. allows us to feel better. At least. >> As we talked about earlier, you can at >> As we talked about earlier, you can at >> As we talked about earlier, you can at least them. You can find the silver least them. You can find the silver least them. You can find the silver lining. You can do that downward lining. You can do that downward lining. You can do that downward counterfactual. counterfactual. counterfactual. >> Liz Fosslien agrees that using new words >> Liz Fosslien agrees that using new words >> Liz Fosslien agrees that using new words in our self-talk can be a valuable way in our self-talk can be a valuable way in our self-talk can be a valuable way to learn about possible silver linings. to learn about possible silver linings. to learn about possible silver linings. >> One thing that I found really valuable >> One thing that I found really valuable >> One thing that I found really valuable is replacing the phrase should have with is replacing the phrase should have with is replacing the phrase should have with what if. So, in my case, like, I what if. So, in my case, like, I what if. So, in my case, like, I shouldn't have gone with my mom and shouldn't have gone with my mom and shouldn't have gone with my mom and gotten on that plane, gotten on that plane, gotten on that plane, changing it and saying, like, well, what changing it and saying, like, well, what changing it and saying, like, well, what if the next time I do get on the plane? if the next time I do get on the plane? if the next time I do get on the plane? It's sort of a It's sort of a It's sort of a quick phrasing shift that allows us to quick phrasing shift that allows us to quick phrasing shift that allows us to both give ourselves grace, but then both give ourselves grace, but then both give ourselves grace, but then shift more into this mindset of what shift more into this mindset of what shift more into this mindset of what could the future look like if I learned could the future look like if I learned could the future look like if I learned from this past experience. from this past experience. from this past experience. >> Another effective, although somewhat >> Another effective, although somewhat >> Another effective, although somewhat counterintuitive, strategy involves counterintuitive, strategy involves counterintuitive, strategy involves sharing your regrets more broadly. sharing your regrets more broadly. sharing your regrets more broadly. We assume that talking about our We assume that talking about our We assume that talking about our mistakes will feel shameful or mistakes will feel shameful or mistakes will feel shameful or embarrassing, but the science shows that embarrassing, but the science shows that embarrassing, but the science shows that admitting your regrets, either to a admitting your regrets, either to a admitting your regrets, either to a close confidant or to the pages of a close confidant or to the pages of a close confidant or to the pages of a written journal, can make you feel written journal, can make you feel written journal, can make you feel better. better. better. In one study, researchers had subjects In one study, researchers had subjects In one study, researchers had subjects talk about their regrets on a tape talk about their regrets on a tape talk about their regrets on a tape recorder for 15 minutes a day. recorder for 15 minutes a day. recorder for 15 minutes a day. After 4 weeks, participants reported After 4 weeks, participants reported After 4 weeks, participants reported higher levels of life satisfaction and higher levels of life satisfaction and higher levels of life satisfaction and better overall mental well-being. better overall mental well-being. better overall mental well-being. Daniel argues that this works because Daniel argues that this works because Daniel argues that this works because talking about our regrets can make them talking about our regrets can make them talking about our regrets can make them more concrete. more concrete. more concrete. >> And that makes them less fearsome, and >> And that makes them less fearsome, and >> And that makes them less fearsome, and it also begins the sense-making process. it also begins the sense-making process. it also begins the sense-making process. >> And that sense-making process is the >> And that sense-making process is the >> And that sense-making process is the final step of harnessing our regrets. final step of harnessing our regrets. final step of harnessing our regrets. We're trying to extract a lesson from We're trying to extract a lesson from We're trying to extract a lesson from what we did badly in the past, so we can what we did badly in the past, so we can what we did badly in the past, so we can do better in the future. do better in the future. do better in the future. >> I don't think it's good enough to simply >> I don't think it's good enough to simply >> I don't think it's good enough to simply say, "Ah, I'm going to treat myself with say, "Ah, I'm going to treat myself with say, "Ah, I'm going to treat myself with kindness. I'm going to write about it or kindness. I'm going to write about it or kindness. I'm going to write about it or disclose it." I think you have to go to disclose it." I think you have to go to disclose it." I think you have to go to the next step and say, "What did I learn the next step and say, "What did I learn the next step and say, "What did I learn from this? What is the lesson that I've from this? What is the lesson that I've from this? What is the lesson that I've derived from this, and how do I apply it derived from this, and how do I apply it derived from this, and how do I apply it going forward?" going forward?" going forward?" >> The sense-making process is one of the >> The sense-making process is one of the >> The sense-making process is one of the reasons Liz is also keen to share the reasons Liz is also keen to share the reasons Liz is also keen to share the power of regret. By courageously power of regret. By courageously power of regret. By courageously processing her own regrets about not processing her own regrets about not processing her own regrets about not showing up when her mother needed her, showing up when her mother needed her, showing up when her mother needed her, she's been able to better live up to the she's been able to better live up to the she's been able to better live up to the person she ideally wants to be. person she ideally wants to be. person she ideally wants to be. >> And so, I don't even want to say I'm >> And so, I don't even want to say I'm >> And so, I don't even want to say I'm grateful, because that's not quite true, grateful, because that's not quite true, grateful, because that's not quite true, but I do I try every time I'm confronted but I do I try every time I'm confronted but I do I try every time I'm confronted with a similar situation to make the with a similar situation to make the with a similar situation to make the choice that I know is going to lead to choice that I know is going to lead to choice that I know is going to lead to less long-run pain, and that actually less long-run pain, and that actually less long-run pain, and that actually aligns more with my values. aligns more with my values. aligns more with my values. >> Unfortunately, Liz had a chance to test >> Unfortunately, Liz had a chance to test >> Unfortunately, Liz had a chance to test that commitment to her new ideal self that commitment to her new ideal self that commitment to her new ideal self when her father was rushed to the when her father was rushed to the when her father was rushed to the hospital. hospital. hospital. >> And at the time we didn't, you know, I >> And at the time we didn't, you know, I >> And at the time we didn't, you know, I we really didn't know if he was going to we really didn't know if he was going to we really didn't know if he was going to make it, so it was very scary. make it, so it was very scary. make it, so it was very scary. >> Liz was living in San Francisco at the >> Liz was living in San Francisco at the >> Liz was living in San Francisco at the time. She knew that flying halfway time. She knew that flying halfway time. She knew that flying halfway across the country to her father's across the country to her father's across the country to her father's hospital in Chicago at short notice and hospital in Chicago at short notice and hospital in Chicago at short notice and in the middle of the COVID-19 pandemic in the middle of the COVID-19 pandemic in the middle of the COVID-19 pandemic would be a logistical nightmare. would be a logistical nightmare. would be a logistical nightmare. And this time, even her mother was And this time, even her mother was And this time, even her mother was telling her not to bother making the telling her not to bother making the telling her not to bother making the trip. trip. trip. >> And I was just like, "Absolutely not. >> And I was just like, "Absolutely not. >> And I was just like, "Absolutely not. I'm coming. I'm coming. I'm coming. Just pick, you know, like pick me up at Just pick, you know, like pick me up at Just pick, you know, like pick me up at the airport or I'll take a lift or the airport or I'll take a lift or the airport or I'll take a lift or whatever it is." whatever it is." whatever it is." >> By fully processing her previous >> By fully processing her previous >> By fully processing her previous experience, Liz was sure that no matter experience, Liz was sure that no matter experience, Liz was sure that no matter how difficult that trip to Chicago was, how difficult that trip to Chicago was, how difficult that trip to Chicago was, the anguish of not going would be worse. the anguish of not going would be worse. the anguish of not going would be worse. >> I do not want to experience that pain >> I do not want to experience that pain >> I do not want to experience that pain again, and I have learned my lesson that again, and I have learned my lesson that again, and I have learned my lesson that I will never ever make that decision. I will never ever make that decision. I will never ever make that decision. >> And so, Liz made the trek and quickly >> And so, Liz made the trek and quickly >> And so, Liz made the trek and quickly enjoyed the benefits that come from enjoyed the benefits that come from enjoyed the benefits that come from being the person you ideally want to be. being the person you ideally want to be. being the person you ideally want to be. >> My dad had luckily ended up being sort >> My dad had luckily ended up being sort >> My dad had luckily ended up being sort of overall okay. of overall okay. of overall okay. And my mom a couple days later was just And my mom a couple days later was just And my mom a couple days later was just like, "I'm so glad you're here." And I like, "I'm so glad you're here." And I like, "I'm so glad you're here." And I said, "I am, too." And I absolutely have said, "I am, too." And I absolutely have said, "I am, too." And I absolutely have no regrets around that. no regrets around that. no regrets around that. >> We often think that in order to be >> We often think that in order to be >> We often think that in order to be happy, we need to shield ourself from happy, we need to shield ourself from happy, we need to shield ourself from painful emotions. painful emotions. painful emotions. And there's no doubt about it, feeling And there's no doubt about it, feeling And there's no doubt about it, feeling regret is painful. It's one of the regret is painful. It's one of the regret is painful. It's one of the suckiest emotions around. suckiest emotions around. suckiest emotions around. >> [music] >> [music] >> [music] >> But, as Daniel Pink put it in his book, >> But, as Daniel Pink put it in his book, >> But, as Daniel Pink put it in his book, it's time you started thinking of your it's time you started thinking of your it's time you started thinking of your regrets not as emotional threats, but as regrets not as emotional threats, but as regrets not as emotional threats, but as opportunities. opportunities. opportunities. If there's some past action that makes If there's some past action that makes If there's some past action that makes you cringe, fix it. Didn't take on that you cringe, fix it. Didn't take on that you cringe, fix it. Didn't take on that big challenge your ideal self was big challenge your ideal self was big challenge your ideal self was pushing for? Do it now. And if you can't pushing for? Do it now. And if you can't pushing for? Do it now. And if you can't go back and change the past, find ways go back and change the past, find ways go back and change the past, find ways to see those pangs of remorse in a new to see those pangs of remorse in a new to see those pangs of remorse in a new [music] light as a powerful way for your [music] light as a powerful way for your [music] light as a powerful way for your ideal self to nudge you in the right ideal self to nudge you in the right ideal self to nudge you in the right direction. direction. direction. And if your ideal self wants to avoid at And if your ideal self wants to avoid at And if your ideal self wants to avoid at least one future podcast regret, then least one future podcast regret, then least one future podcast regret, then I'd encourage you to come back soon for I'd encourage you to come back soon for I'd encourage you to come back soon for the next episode of The Happiness Lab the next episode of The Happiness Lab the next episode of The Happiness Lab with me, Dr. Laurie Santos. with me, Dr. Laurie Santos. with me, Dr. Laurie Santos. >> [music] >> The Happiness [music] Lab is co-written >> The Happiness [music] Lab is co-written and produced by Ryan Dilly, Emily Anne and produced by Ryan Dilly, Emily Anne and produced by Ryan Dilly, Emily Anne Vaughn, and Courtney Gorino. Joseph Vaughn, and Courtney Gorino. Joseph Vaughn, and Courtney Gorino. Joseph Fridman checked our facts. Fridman checked our facts. Fridman checked our facts. Our original music was composed by Our original music was composed by Our original music was composed by Zachary Silver [music] with additional Zachary Silver [music] with additional Zachary Silver [music] with additional scoring, mixing, and mastering by Evan scoring, mixing, and mastering by Evan scoring, mixing, and mastering by Evan Viola. Viola. Viola. Thanks to everyone who shared their Thanks to everyone who shared their Thanks to everyone who shared their regret stories for this episode. regret stories for this episode. regret stories for this episode. Special thanks [music] to Meela Bell, Special thanks [music] to Meela Bell, Special thanks [music] to Meela Bell, Heather Fain, John Schnars, Carly Heather Fain, John Schnars, Carly Heather Fain, John Schnars, Carly Migliori, Christina Sullivan, Maggie Migliori, Christina Sullivan, Maggie Migliori, Christina Sullivan, Maggie Taylor, Eric Sandler, Nicole Morano, Taylor, Eric Sandler, Nicole Morano, Taylor, Eric Sandler, Nicole Morano, Royston Beserve, Jacob Weisberg, [music] Royston Beserve, Jacob Weisberg, [music] Royston Beserve, Jacob Weisberg, [music] and my agent Ben Davis. and my agent Ben Davis. and my agent Ben Davis. The Happiness Lab is brought to you by The Happiness Lab is brought to you by The Happiness Lab is brought to you by Pushkin Industries and me, Dr. Laurie Pushkin Industries and me, Dr. Laurie Pushkin Industries and me, Dr. Laurie Santos. Santos. Santos. To find more Pushkin podcasts, listen on To find more Pushkin podcasts, listen on To find more Pushkin podcasts, listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, [music] or wherever you listen to your [music] or wherever you listen to your [music] or wherever you listen to your podcasts.