What We Still Get Wrong About Happiness (Live at Dartmouth) | The Happiness Lab Podcast

Key Takeaway

Today, replace one vague feeling with a precise label before trying to fix it. Pause when you notice “I feel bad” and name the emotion more specifically—lonely, disappointed, anxious, overwhelmed, or sad. That small act of emotional labeling creates psychological distance and points toward a better response: call someone for loneliness, rest for exhaustion, or challenge a harsh thought when you are anxious. Do the same before opening your phone: ask what you need, why now, and what else you could do.

Episode Overview

In a live Dartmouth conversation, Dr. Laurie Santos and historian Darrin McMahon examine why people routinely pursue happiness in counterproductive ways. They discuss money, time abundance, social connection, self-compassion, social comparison, phones, AI, and why rest and well-being can improve—not undermine—achievement.

Full Transcript

Transcript of What We Still Get Wrong About Happiness (Live at Dartmouth) | The Happiness Lab Podcast from The Happiness Lab. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

Pushkin. Hello, Pushkin. Hello, listeners of " Happiness Lab", we are taking a break from our "Hot Moments of Happiness" series to bring you a special gift. If you listened to listened to listened to last week's last week's last week's episode, you know that I recently interviewed happiness historian Darrin McMahon, who McMahon, who McMahon, who told me all about the history of the idea of ​​the pursuit of happiness. Well, in this episode I'll continue my continue my continue my conversation with Darrin, but this time he'll be interviewing be interviewing be interviewing me.

You can hear a live conversation we had at Darrin's alma mater, Dartmouth Dartmouth Dartmouth College, as part of the Nelson A. Nelson A. Rockefeller Center's public discussions at Dartmouth on the pursuit of happiness. We talked about everything related to the science of happiness, like what practices we can do to do to do to feel better, and some thoughts some thoughts some thoughts I had about new technologies and technologies and technologies and artificial intelligence. It was a wide-ranging and extremely fun extremely fun extremely fun conversation, so I couldn't wait to wait to wait to share it with all my all my podcast fans.

So enjoy a enjoy a enjoy a special episode of my conversation with Darrin McMahon Darrin McMahon Darrin McMahon at Dartmouth at Dartmouth at Dartmouth College. Our mind constantly tells constantly tells constantly tells us what to do to be happy. But what if our minds were wrong? What if our minds lied to us, leading us away from what would truly truly truly make us make us make us happy? The good news is news is that understanding the science of the mind can get us all back in the right direction right direction .

You are listening to "The Happiness Lab" with Dr. Lori Santos. This is the second column in our series on the true pursuit of happiness, both in the past and in the present, and perhaps in the future. future. future. Today we have Lori Santos, and I'm just happy to welcome you here, Lori. Last week, Lori very kindly invited me to be on the podcast and podcast and podcast and talk about happiness in the 18th century. Today, I think we'll talk about the pursuit of happiness in the 21st century, but feel free to delve into history if it moves you.

moves you. moves you. Oh yes, we are going to our ancestors. So, ancestors. So, ancestors. So, Lori is known as an authority on the science of happiness and the pursuit of happiness, but you have gained experience as a psychologist and researcher studying studying studying animal behavior, animal behavior, animal behavior, particularly dogs. And I'd like to hear, I mean, as a dog lover, I understand the connection between dogs and dogs and dogs and the pursuit of happiness, but I'd like to hear if there's a connection between studying animals and the pursuit of happiness, or how you go from go from go from one to the other.

Yes, yes, I mean the biggest connection between animals and happiness is animals , definitely dogs make us really happy. They happy. They happy. They keep us moving, they make us attentive. A lot of evidence suggests evidence suggests evidence suggests that dog owners are happier, so if you need one quick tip on happiness, get a dog, it will make you happy. you happy. you happy. Not a cat? No, not cats either. Interestingly, there is less research on cats, but cats definitely make you make you make you happier too.

But I think the think the think the psychological psychological psychological connection is one of the reasons I studied animals, because I've long been interested in the ways our ways our ways our minds lead us astray . Most . Most . Most people study people study people study animals to animals to animals to try to figure out if animals are as smart as humans, but I spend a lot of time studying time studying whether animals are as stupid as humans, and some of the reasons why humans are stupid.

I was doing this with monkeys, studying the genomic errors that we have and trying to trying to trying to figure out if monkeys also exhibit them. With dogs, we really focused on focused on focused on social errors. social errors. social errors. Do dogs imitate to the point of doing truly doing truly doing truly irrational things, irrational things, irrational things, somewhat similar to what humans do? And the connection between that and working on happiness is that I've I've I've always believed that one of the reasons we're not as happy as we could be is not because we're not working on it.

We work very hard to become happier, become happier, become happier, but we often do it wrong because wrong because wrong because our mind lies to us about what we need to do to be happier. So in a way, this work on animals, which is really about what about what about what makes our minds go haywire, is very similar to how I think about happiness. happiness. happiness. This is so interesting. Is there really work on animal welfare animal welfare ? When I... I always point out that Darwin writes about horses that are bad- are bad- are bad- tempered and some are cheerful, and he starts to think along those lines, and I don't know if there's any real work in the lab.

Yes, there is a lot of work aimed at aimed at aimed at investigating what investigating what investigating what animals feel, animals feel, animals feel, right? This is really important even for animal researchers animal researchers animal researchers who are trying to improve the lives of animals and thinking about animal welfare and so on. The problem with animals and thinking about animal happiness is that I know, I know, I know, even if you, Darren, are happy, when I ask you, often in some very formalized formalized formalized psychometric psychometric psychometric survey where I ask you about your life experiences and your your your life satisfaction and so on; but ultimately, I have no way of objectively knowing whether knowing whether knowing whether you are happy.

You have to tell me. tell me. tell me. Right. Right. Right. And the problem with animals is that no matter how much we ask them, ask them, ask them, they usually don't tell us directly. Because of the lack of verbal language, it's really hard for us to tell if animals are happy, so I think that's a major major major limitation of why there isn't a whole field of animal welfare research that's as that's as that's as robust as robust as robust as human research. It's very difficult for them to tell us this .

. . But if I know a psychologist, it won't stop them. stop them. stop them. This is true. So you start with animals, and then it seems like in 2018 you launched this launched this launched this great course on " psychology and the good life." I'm sure you've answered you've answered you've answered this question a million times, but I'm curious how this happened. Have you taught you taught you taught well-being up to this point? What was the impetus? And then I would be particularly interested particularly interested particularly interested to know how the course has changed while you have been teaching it, because it seems you are still teaching it.

teaching it. teaching it. Yes, that's true. The turn to thinking about well-being about well-being about well-being came along with a turn in my role at Yale at Yale at Yale . So, for most of my time at Yale, I was a professor in a front-row classroom front-row classroom front-row classroom very similar to this one. I interacted with interacted with interacted with the students a lot, but I was a bit detached from them. I seemed to be teaching them, but I wasn't really following what was happening in happening in student life.

student life. student life. Everything changed when I became what is called a called a called a college dean on the Yale campus . These are teachers who teachers who teachers who functionally live functionally live functionally live in dormitories with students. Yale is kind of like one of one of one of those weird colleges, like Hogwarts in Harry Potter, where there's something like Gryffindor and Slytherin. It's like mini- college within a college. I was the head of Silliman College, Silliman College, Silliman College, which has no relation to relation to relation to Slytherin, although it sounds very similar.

But it meant that as a teacher, I teacher, I teacher, I saw student saw student saw student life very closely for the first time. I ate with the students in the cafeteria. I spent time with them in a coffee shop. And I just didn't like what I saw. It's like I've been watching this so-called college student mental health crisis up close, when the statistics when I first started were started were started were showing that in 2018, over 40% of college students college students college students reported being reported being reported being too depressed too depressed too depressed to function to function to function most of the day, not just at Yale, but across the country.

Over 60% said they said they said they felt felt felt extremely anxious. extremely anxious. extremely anxious. More than one in 10 have seriously thought about suicide in the past 6 months. It was a staggering amount of suffering that was happening on campus. And this was happening in my community, right? I'm this friendly this friendly this friendly aunt who aunt who aunt who hangs out with students, students, students, trying to make this community great. And I just watched my students my students my students suffer from suffer from suffer from panic attacks or worse.

And it made me made me made me think seriously think seriously think seriously about what my institution is doing from a mental health perspective. I thought that we as teachers teachers teachers assume that you students are studying, you know, computer science or Chaucer or whatever else we we we teach you. And how can that be true if over two-thirds of you are too anxious to function to function to function most of the day, or if you, your teammate, or teammate, or teammate, or your roommate are seriously considering seriously considering seriously considering suicide?

There suicide? There suicide? There seemed to be a disconnect between what we expected from students and the actual level of suffering I suffering I suffering I saw in the community. So I just thought, "I have to act." As a boring psychologist, I had limited had limited had limited options for action. But I could teach a new course. And I already had a little experience in this area of ​​the science of happiness, or what psychologists call psychologists call psychologists call positive positive positive psychology. I psychology. I psychology.

I worked with Marty Seligman, who is often considered a leader in the field. So I had some experience with that. So I thought, you know, let me let me let me just do a new introductory course. I'll just create a new course on this topic. But the difference in this course that I taught is that I wanted it to be practical. I wanted this to be a skills development course where students would learn strategies they strategies they strategies they could could could use use use if they were feeling exhausted or stressed, etc.

However, it was a new course on campus, so I figured I would show up and there would be 40 students in the class, which is typical for a psychology course at Yale Yale Yale . I didn't expect that the only place where this could be taught on taught on taught on campus would be our concert hall. There was also a football stadium, but to be honest, a football stadium in January is not the best place to hold classes hold classes hold classes twice a week, so yeah.

Yes, this is a story. It really came from seeing seeing seeing this need on campus and realizing that we, as, I don't know, the president of the university, university, university, felt like we weren't doing our doing our doing our job. We just pretended everything was okay and kind of kept it to ourselves, but I really wanted to give the students skills they skills they skills they could use. could use. could use. So interesting. You know, it's funny; My late godfather was a close friend of Lorraine Siggins, who was was was the director of mental health at Yale for years , and I remember Lorraine remember Lorraine remember Lorraine saying at one point that point that point that more than more than more than half of the students in her office were students, and that one of them told her that he had mortgaged his childhood to childhood to childhood to go to Yale .

And then , you know, this realization of the stress that we put we put we put our young people through and the stress that they get is just overwhelming. You know, you're picking up on a point that I often try to make, which is that all this talk about happiness in the news and, you know, other places–that's not places–that's not places–that's not necessarily a good sign, is it? It reflects a certain underlying anxiety and unhappiness that I think says a lot about our times. Has this course changed?

I mean, it's the initial push, but has it evolved? Have evolved? Have evolved? Have things improved? things improved? things improved? Yes, a little. One of the things that changed was the focus I had, right? It's nice to have a quarter of all Yale students Yale students Yale students in your in your in your audience, that you can see what works, what they resonate with, and what works less well. One of the things I hear from my students all the time is what they learned from the course.

I'm most interested in what strategies you're strategies you're strategies you're going to going to going to use? You've use? You've use? You've heard about all these different strategies, this strategies, this strategies, this list of different tools that you can can can use to use to use to feel better. Which ones do you actually use? Which ones do you apply in your own life? And those strategies that I kept hearing these students students students use use use all the time were strategies that we had to had to had to regulate and regulate and regulate and navigate in navigate in navigate in internal dialogues, internal dialogues, internal dialogues, right?

Things in your head. I'm not good enough. good enough. good enough. I'm ruining everything. I should do more. That voice of voice of voice of hustle culture that resonates in society and society and society and gets embedded in your head. This is something I think my students needed needed needed help with. So we talk a lot about strategies that you can use to use to use to develop more develop more develop more self-compassion, self-compassion, self-compassion, strategies that you can use to use to use to gain some gain some gain some psychological psychological psychological distance from the problems that arise in your life.

And these were tools that I think my students students students used used used more and more. So the classes shifted classes shifted classes shifted to to to focus more on some of those things. I think when people hear about hear about hear about positive positive positive psychology work classically, they hear about things like meditation or writing a gratitude journal. gratitude journal. gratitude journal. And those things are great, but I think what my students really students really students really needed needed needed help with was, when I'm berating myself, how can I talk to myself in a healthier way?

And it really resonated. resonated. resonated. So, basic So, basic So, basic cognitive cognitive behavioral therapy, behavioral therapy, behavioral therapy, basically. basically. basically. I mean, what we do in class is really the kind of skill development that you learn from a good therapist, good therapist, good therapist, right? Cognitive right? Cognitive behavioral therapy behavioral therapy behavioral therapy really changes your thinking patterns, thinking patterns, thinking patterns, changes your changes your changes your attitude towards your thinking patterns, thinking patterns, thinking patterns, finds ways to better regulate better regulate better regulate your emotions.

These are functional functional functional tools that we teach in the classroom. And I think that's important. Sometimes, for certain life issues, you need an need an need an individual individual individual therapy session to gain these skills. But these skills are also...I don't want to say they're not difficult, because they're difficult to apply at the moment, but moment, but moment, but they're pretty simple. And that's one of the insights I've gained from teaching this is this: we should be teaching this earlier and earlier, because earlier, because earlier, because none of this is high-level science.

high-level science. high-level science. For example, these basic emotion regulation strategies, I think we should be teaching right in middle school, but maybe even maybe even maybe even earlier. earlier. earlier. I mean, I mean, I mean, Yale University has done a great job great job great job of implementing of implementing of implementing this kind of emotional skills development in elementary schools, elementary schools, elementary schools, right? right? right? And I think this may happen sooner happen sooner happen sooner and earlier. and earlier. and earlier. Teaching this Teaching this Teaching this course opened up so many interesting opportunities that I did n't expect, but one of the most exciting was exciting was exciting was working with Sesame Workshop, the group that runs Sesame Street , and thinking about how to bring these strategies to young children.

And I realized, "Oh my God, one of the strategies I teach my students is this idea of emotional labeling, emotional labeling, emotional labeling, which is just giving a label to what you're feeling. I feeling. I feeling. I feel feel feel disappointed. I disappointed. I disappointed. I feel feel feel depressed. I am sad. "I feel lonely." Whatever lonely." Whatever lonely." Whatever it is. One word can help you understand exactly what you're feeling, and also help you help you help you understand how to fix it. "A" for loneliness is quite different from different from different from correcting yourself when you're feeling feeling feeling down.

But if you just think, “Oh, I feel bad,” then you don’t know what to do. But this is a strategy that can be taught to a child between the ages of three and five. Maybe not with big words like " stunned" and " disappointed," but you can try. can try. can try. In fact, Elmo taught children about disappointment. This was one of the words Elmo was learning. So if we could just explain this earlier, we would have given people the tools they tools they tools they could could could use.

use. use. Well, you know, my five-year-old daughter five-year-old daughter five-year-old daughter taught me at the time, and I got this education very late, maybe, but still. So thank you. We humans have a very poor understanding of what will make us happy, and happy, and happy, and accordingly we make poor choices. And you, Lori, are not at all shy about pointing out what people do wrong in their pursuit of happiness. And you know, while we have you, can you give us some quick tips on what not to do?

Yes, because I look at a bunch of students, it seems like . I'll give you the one that my students my students my students get wrong get wrong get wrong most often, which is the connection between money and happiness. Most of you are here at a place like place like place like Dartmouth College Dartmouth College Dartmouth College because you want to make a lot of money later, and later, and later, and it turns out that there is a connection between money and happiness, but this connection only exists when you when you when you really don't have any money.

If you are currently living below the poverty line and I give you more money , yes, it will make your life much easier. You will be happier. But this link between money and happiness seems to be leveling out. leveling out. leveling out. Researchers Researchers Researchers argue about exactly where it where it where it aligns. In a very famous article from 2010, people believed people believed people believed it would level out at around at around at around $75,000. In today's money, that's probably equivalent to equivalent to equivalent to about about about $110,000.

People $110,000. People $110,000. People argue about argue about argue about whether the slope is completely flat after this point point point or whether it increases slightly over time, but the bottom line is that getting that getting that getting more more more money after a certain point just doesn't help your help your help your happiness much. And that's something that, in my opinion, is very difficult to take into account. I look at the students' room. and I imagine that some of you are retired and you are considering various considering various considering various job offers.

job offers. job offers. You may have been lucky enough to get a few offers, and I think the first thing you look at is the salary. And you hesitate: “Oh, which one should I choose? And maybe I'll get an extra $5,000 extra $5,000 extra $5,000 or something." And it wo n't matter at all . What will matter? What matter? What matter? What will your will your will your social connections be like at work? One of the most important most important most important predictors of happiness in general and happiness at work is the yes or no answer to the question, do you have a best friend at work?

Another work? Another work? Another important predictor of your happiness at work is whether you have a lot of free time. This is a great piece by Ashley Willans from Willans from Willans from Harvard Harvard Harvard Business School on the power of so- called time called time called time abundance. It's a feeling that you feel rich in time. It is much more important to have temporal wealth than wealth than wealth than monetary wealth. It's even interesting that on low incomes, low incomes, low incomes, actually, because actually, because actually, because we talk to a lot of people on public public public policy, Ashley has been pushing the policy that one way to solve the solve the solve the happiness crisis, like so many other crises that occur in occur in occur in low low low income people, is to give give give low low low income people more time, right?

Because if you think about what happens if you're low income, you drive Uber, or maybe you don't even have a car, so you drive 2 hours to work, etc. They etc. They etc. They did it, if we could solve the time crisis, we could help them help them help them psychologically and psychologically and psychologically and maybe even maybe even maybe even financially in the future. But we do n't think so. We don't think: If I want to be happier, let me let me let me find a life that gives me a lot more time.

We just think: money, money, money, achievement, money, achievement, money, achievement, achievement, achievement, achievement, achievement, and that won't move things from a dead end in the way we think. we think. we think. So money is not unimportant, but it is also not as important as important as important as people think. people think. people think. It's so insidious to the workings of our minds, is n't it? Because it is important for a certain time . For example, if you're a student and you're not making any money, or like me, when I was a poor graduate student, you know, in know, in know, in graduate school I was making enough enough enough to not be below the poverty line, but more money definitely made me happier.

I have n't been to that threshold yet. So you internalize this internalize this reward relationship. You think: oh my God, more money, more happiness. But then, when it levels out, you stop stop stop realizing that it is . And what happens when you get more get more get more money and it doesn't move things along? You don't think, "Oh, I must have been wrong about this connection between money and happiness." You just think, “Oh, I was wrong about wrong about wrong about the amount of money I needed.

I need a lot more money to be happy." be happy." be happy." In fact, one of my favorite my favorite my favorite surveys that Sonia Lubomirska cites in her book is where you you you ask people who make make make $30,000, is $30,000, is $30,000, is that enough for happiness? These people say, "No." They say, "Okay, how much money would you make if you made that amount, just be just be just be happy." And that was many years ago, but people who make make make $30,000 say, " If I could just get $50,000 get $50,000 get $50,000 and I'd just be happy, I'd happy, I'd happy, I'd never never never need another need another need another penny." But penny." But penny." But you do the same survey with people who make who make who make $100,000, you ask them, "Is them, "Is them, "Is that enough?" They say: " No".

You say: " How much do you need?" » These people say, “ I need I need I need $250,000 to be happy.” “Now I look at the smart students at students at students at Dartmouth Dartmouth Dartmouth who who who can do math in their heads, and you realize: wait, it’s not about reaching a reaching a reaching a goal. It's like a ratio, ratio, ratio, the difference between what you think you need and what you have increases as you get more money. They don't get smaller, do they ?

Because I think that's the insidious thing about money: we don't realize that, "Oh, I was wrong. I guess I need something else. We think, “It’s still money. I just need just need just need a lot more than I think." “It’s time to take a short break, but break, but break, but Darin and I will return to further conversation when the when the when the Happiness Lab returns in a moment. So, pursuing happiness pursuing happiness pursuing happiness through money may not quite work. This is one of the wrong aspirations, isn't it?

What should we do? How can we strive for this? Yes. Well, here's one thing that I think you'll like, given your focus on the 18th century, which is : : : another thing we get wrong about wrong about wrong about happiness: we think happiness is about us. It concerns me, me, me. And I think that's especially especially especially true in today's individualistic individualistic individualistic culture where we find ourselves. And in a school like this, honestly, many of you students are here because you're focused on your studies, on what you need, and on improving improving improving your knowledge.

Isn't what you're doing you're doing you're doing helping the country? What are you doing to help the world? What are you doing to help your help your help your brothers and sisters? It was like you, you, you. And research just research just research just keeps showing keeps showing keeps showing us that this is not the path to happiness. And I think that's what modern modern modern culture gets so wrong. If you go...On TikTok, you'll see something somewhere about self-care, about self-care, about self-care, about how to pamper yourself or "me, me, me," right?

But if you look at look at look at happiness research, you 'll see that this is not what predicts predicts predicts people's happiness. Happiness is an orientation towards others. So, So, So, controlling for income, people who donate more money to charity are charity are charity are happier than those who self- self- self- report report report donating nothing. The same goes for volunteering, volunteering, controlling the controlling the controlling the amount of free time you have. It seems that doing things for others makes you happier. These are correlations, so you might think, "Well, maybe it's that, you know, doing nice things for other people makes you happy," but it could also be that if you're happy, you do nice things for other people.

And we know that this is an effect. This is called the “ “ “ feel good, do good ” effect. If you are in a good mood, you do nicer do nicer do nicer things for other people. But there are also studies that, studies that, studies that, you know, are really nice. They get people to do nice things for others and then check what check what check what happens to your happiness. And you find that even when you're when you're when you're forced to do something nice for other people, people, people, you feel better afterwards.

And so, I think, this is what we constantly get wrong in wrong in wrong in modern times. And as I said, Darren, this is something that I think you'll appreciate, because the ancestors, you know, they were good at at at individual individual individual pleasure, but they also understood that even the very concept of happiness was about everyone's happiness. And this is what we are sorely lacking today. lacking today. lacking today. So, one thing that becomes very obvious is that when people in the 18th century talk century talk century talk about the pursuit of happiness, they don't they don't they don't mean the pursuit of quantities of quantities of quantities of pleasure.

They mean the pursuit of a life well lived. And to access this , they , they , they draw very deeply on wisdom traditions. So, in their case, it's Greek and Roman philosophy, Roman philosophy, Roman philosophy, as well as religious traditions, right? And I... While you were talking, I was thinking about this wonderful Chinese proverb, Chinese proverb, Chinese proverb, and I don't quite understand it correctly, but it goes something like, something like, something like, if you want to be happy for an hour, take a nap.

If you want to be happy for a while...a day, go fishing. And if you want to be happy all your life, then help then help then help others. And that becomes the way that so many of the world's wisdom and spiritual traditions have, traditions have, traditions have, you know, profound lessons about how to pursue happiness built into them. And I heard you say, a little bit like Jonathan Haidt Jonathan Haidt Jonathan Haidt talking about talking about talking about modern truth and ancient wisdom, that, you know, a big part of what positive psychologists do is to confirm confirm or validate or validate or validate insights that we already know.

But they simply gave them a modern scientific modern scientific modern scientific imprimatur, which is important, but important, but important, but nevertheless, the knowledge itself may not be new . . . Yes. And I think that's really important really important really important to do, right? I think my think my think my science hat is sometimes shy, don't you ? Because it's like we, positive psychologists, positive psychologists, positive psychologists, psychologists and psychologists and behavioral scientists in general , have gone out and tested all these things that scientists have been talking about, you know, since Aristotle, and, oh my God, it turns out that habits that are really good to form, or doing good things for other people, make you happy.

you happy. you happy. Awareness and Awareness and Awareness and presence are presence are presence are wonderful. People have been saying this for thousands of years, so on the one hand, it's like modern science , which is just showing us what these people have always said, and what is now true. But I think it's important to do this because it didn't necessarily have to be that way, and sometimes old traditions traditions traditions were just were just were just wrong. wrong. wrong. Think about your favorite old favorite old favorite old tradition, you tradition, you tradition, you realize that some of them we just don't follow in the same way today.

And so I think it's really important to ask the question, are we doing this right? And sometimes, when we look, we realize we're doing it wrong. Hmm, this is n't so much an ancient tradition as tradition as tradition as another thing that's really popular in culture right now, and it's just driving me crazy - this TikTok trend about manifesting. All you students are nodding, like, "Oh, I just want to get good get good get good grades this grades this grades this semester, so I'm just going to manifest it.

I'm just going to visualize it, okay?" It turns out that it's not just that the demonstration is neutral or that it doesn't work. It actively forces what you want you want you want away. How does this happen? Well, it happens happens happens through an interesting trick of the mind. This happens because of how your mind your mind your mind imagines different imagines different imagines different rewards and how your reward system works . So, . So, . So, let's say I want to get in shape, right?

That's what I was thinking. I try to go with my trainer once a week. I want to get a little fitter, little fitter, little fitter, right? So I manifest it . I think something like, “Oh, how great it would be if I was in shape. "My God, my clothes would fit better and I would have stronger muscles." I vividly imagine that I have already received the reward, that I have already put in all the necessary work, and I already have this good thing. And the interesting thing about our minds is that when we imagine things very carefully, there's a part of our brain that thinks we've already got it.

There is a great study by Gabriele Muwig and her colleagues that tests this tests this tests this directly on food. He suggests you either imagine imagine imagine carefully placing a 25 cent piece into a slot as if you were going to do the laundry, or imagine imagine imagine slowly eating slowly eating slowly eating one M&M's at a time. And you do this for a while. And then the experiment is you you you go out and there's a bowl of M&M's. And the question is , how many M&M's do you eat?

And you find that when you've already imagined yourself eating all those M &M's very carefully, the last thing you want to do is eat more M&M's. It's as if you've imagined what this reward will be, so you don't you don't you don't need it anymore. You don't need to take any action to action to action to get it. And research by Gabriele Muwig and her colleagues shows that the same thing happens when it manifests. If you manifest, “Oh God, I want to get great grades,” great grades,” great grades,” part of your brain thinks you got those great grades.

So you don't spend as much time studying. You don't work that work that work that hard. She hard. She hard. She finds that students who show who show who show improvements in improvements in improvements in fitness actually fitness actually fitness actually go to the gym less often . So it's not just that manifesting is manifesting is manifesting is like, "Oh, this is n't working. "It's kind of like courtship." This is really bad. But the good thing is that there is a way to do it better.

Gabriel Oettingen Gabriel Oettingen Gabriel Oettingen shows how this works, which is, in addition to thinking very vividly about the reward, you also think, "Hmm, what obstacles what obstacles what obstacles are getting me to this reward?" And you imagine it. And you think, "Oh, I do n't have any gym shorts, or I don't have any books to study for, or something like that, there are four four parties this weekend and I won't have time to read the book I book I book I need to read." It makes you think about how you can overcome these overcome these overcome these obstacles.

You can put this this manifestation to good use. It's just that the TikTok version is leading us astray. So the whole point is that sometimes science goes out and studies and studies and studies things that are in the public domain, public domain, public domain, that scientists that scientists that scientists have been thinking about for a while, and they say, "Yeah, everyone was right ." But sometimes we look back and realize that popular wisdom is simply wrong, and this is where , in my opinion , science can help us get on a better path.

This is great, and it's the perfect transition to where I want to go next. go next. go next. Last fall, in October, Professor October, Professor October, Professor Danny Blanchflower, Danny Blanchflower, Danny Blanchflower, who is here in the room, and his colleagues his colleagues his colleagues organized this organized this organized this wonderful conference with the United Nations United Nations on the on the on the youth well-being crisis. And as Danny and others like Gene Twenge and Jonathan Haidt, who were also at the conference, have shown, this crisis is real.

And what 's more, it's showing up in the data at the very time when time when time when the mobile phone is becoming widely available. So I'd like to know know know if you'd like to comment, and I hope you're not sponsored by Meta. I hope we're not sponsored by Meta, but there's one thing: we have Meta sponsorship, but we do n't. Yes. Um, I think it's important, when it comes to comes to comes to technology, technology, technology, social media, and cell phones, and how they how they how they affect our affect our affect our well-being, well-being, well-being, to remember that cell phones cell phones are just a tool.

It's just technology. We can We can We can use it in different ways. We can use our use our use our phones to phones to phones to call a friend , donate money to a good cause, use a use a meditation app. It can be used for used for used for good deeds. The only problem is that we are not inclined to use it for good deeds. Basically, all the different strategies I strategies I strategies I talk about for how to feel feel feel happier, if you look at how we tend to use use use technology, it technology, it technology, it leads us astray.

Let's take the one I find most find most find most ironic, namely ironic, namely ironic, namely social connections. social connections. social connections. All available All available All available research on happy people shows that happy people are more social. The quickest intervention, other than getting a dog, that you can do to become happier become happier become happier is to make a friend, talk to a person, or or or connect socially in some way. Our phones were literally built literally built literally built for this. This is a phone.

The whole purpose of a telephone is to call to call to call someone. How do we usually usually usually spend it? spend it? spend it? Looking at him, ignoring the people in real life real life real life around us. The deep irony is that these tools that were supposed to help us help us help us connect often connect often connect often help us not connect. And there's great work by people like Liz Dunn and others that shows how much our phones steal our attention when we're around other people.

Liz does this great this great this great study where she puts people in a waiting room. You know, imagine imagine imagine Darrin and I sitting on stage, we're in the waiting room together . We could just just just talk to talk to talk to each other, but if we have phones, what are we going to do? We will not communicate with each other. We will look at our phones. And Liz just does this clever study clever study clever study where she measures how many smiles happen between happen between happen between people in the same room.

You know, maybe the basis of the smallest unit of social connection. social connection. social connection. And she finds that smiles decrease smiles decrease smiles decrease by about 30% when people have their phones handy in that waiting room, right? Imagine right? Imagine that this 30% is multiplied by the fact that our entire society walks around campus and so on. So, we socialize less . Another . Another big problem, big problem, big problem, especially for young people, is that you're getting less sleep because you're not using your using your using your technology.

I think the worst thing that cell cell phone companies ever did was put an put an put an alarm clock in our cell phones because it gives us an excuse to keep it next to us in bed. And then when we wake up in the middle of the night, we look at him and he tempts us, and so on . I think it also makes us much less much less much less present over time. But mindfulness, But mindfulness, But mindfulness, a kind of awareness of where you are, you are, you are, just being in your space, there's so much evidence that it increases our happiness.

We never have moments to moments to moments to be aware. be aware. be aware. You know, probably even some of you who come here, Darren, we're talking to you on this this this beautiful beautiful beautiful spring day, when the Dartmouth campus is just gorgeous right now. I think some of you didn't even notice this. Why? Because you were looking at what was happening on your phone, right? phone, right? phone, right? Not to mention all the disturbing information disturbing information disturbing information on the news and everything else.

So, it's just technology that we tend to tend to tend to use in a way that makes us makes us makes us unhappy. And the coolest discovery coolest discovery I I I heard recently was something I learned from a podcast with Manush Zomorodi, a journalist who journalist who journalist who thinks a lot about the impact of technology and how people usually think about attention and all that, but recently she's recently she's recently she's gotten interested in how technology shapes technology shapes technology shapes our physical bodies.

It's not what we think about that determines our mental our mental our mental health, but our physical health. And she talks about research that research that research that shows this connection between our between our between our core muscles and our adrenal adrenal adrenal glands, like our stress system. And if you think about how we often sit when we're on the phone, I'll phone, I'll phone, I'll demonstrate for demonstrate for demonstrate for those of you who are n't on the phone right now, it's like this. This is the so-called hunched over hunched over hunched over cashew pose.

It turns out that this pose literally stimulates our stimulates our stimulates our stress system. And as Dr. Dr. Dr. Rudy argues, perhaps a large part of the mental health crisis we experience we experience we experience through our phones is actually related to how we sit in our physical bodies and our physical presence. So presence. So presence. So now everyone in the room is straightening up and trying to get into the right position, right position, right position, but yes, she argues that we could solve could solve could solve some of these problems if we think about how technology how technology how technology is changing our posture.

posture. posture. None of us are politicians. I am a historian, you are a psychologist, and yet we are here under the auspices of the Rockefeller Rockefeller Rockefeller Center for Center for Center for Public Policy. Public Policy. Public Policy. Our director is here. But I feel I feel I feel obligated to obligated to obligated to ask a question about public about public about public policy. If you were an advisor to the king for a day, what would you tell him about what we could do at the macro level to improve well-being improve well-being improve well-being in the United States?

I'm glad you asked me this because sometimes a lot of this work comes down to the following. Here are strategies you strategies you strategies you can can can use as use as use as individuals to individuals to individuals to feel feel feel happier. happier. happier. Write in your gratitude journal, gratitude journal, gratitude journal, you know, you know, you know, use these use these self-talk strategies. And that's it. Good. We can ignore the fact that there are many structures around us in governments, companies, and institutions that institutions that institutions that actively make actively make actively make life harder to be happy.

And I think that's just a misnomer. It's misnomer. It's misnomer. It's true that we can use use use individual individual individual strategies to become happier, but it would be much easier much easier much easier to apply these individual individual individual strategies if we were helped by the institutions and governments around us. And we, as psychologists, don't often have the opportunity to talk about this . So I'm happy to talk about it . What do we know about the political implications of what we have learned about happiness?

We've talked about this connection between money and happiness, where money after a certain level doesn't make you happy, but money below a certain level really, really, really, really doesn't make you happy. I think the science of happiness speaks very clearly about the powerful impact that a universal universal universal basic income can have on both levels. If you give low- low- low- income people more money, it will definitely make them happier. If you have to tax tax tax higher-income people higher-income people to get that money, it will have absolutely no impact on their happiness.

It's just extremely, extremely, extremely, extremely clear. extremely clear. extremely clear. Another important Another important Another important policy conclusion policy conclusion policy conclusion is that is that is that social connections are indeed important for happiness. I think there are many are many are many ways in which public policy public policy public policy can affect can affect can affect social ties. social ties. social ties. Here I refer to wonderful people wonderful people wonderful people like Robert Putnam and others who have long talked about the power of things like third spaces, literal spaces, literal spaces, literal spaces that are not work or school or anything like anything like anything like home, places where you can meet meet meet other people.

That's something governments can governments can governments can do, is just make it easier for people to get these spaces. And in empirical cases empirical cases empirical cases where people have done this, we've seen a huge impact in terms of greater connection, greater connection, greater connection, greater happiness, but I think even more conversations across the political spectrum could spectrum could spectrum could help a lot. Finally, we talked a lot about the power of time and the importance of temporal abundance. I think that's a lever that lever that lever that public policy public policy public policy can use can use , that it often doesn't think about because we forget about the importance of time, but even things like the four-day four-day four-day workweek, which workweek, which workweek, which even economists are now telling us, " Wow, the four-day workweek workweek workweek makes workers makes workers makes workers more productive." more productive." more productive." They have time to get more things done, and they also have time to relax and relax and relax and do other do other do other things." Can be extremely powerful extremely powerful .

Finally, I will say that I think one of the things that we forget is that happiness leads to doing doing doing good things for others and doing what our ancestors wanted, which is to be good in our our our civic life civic life , to live a good life not for ourselves but for everyone else. There's a lot of new work that just shows that a really great really great really great way to motivate people to fight for what's good in the world, to fix the structures around them–is around them–is around them–is just to make sure they're in a positive mood and mood and mood and feeling feeling feeling happier.

This is a great piece of work by by by Georgetown's Kushlev, which begs the question: Who will come out and enjoy doing this? Who would like would like would like climate protests, climate protests, climate protests, or, um, he was doing this work around the time of the Black Lives Matter movement. He asks: who will go to these protests and fight for fight for fight for social social social justice? And he discovers that it's not what you think. Can you guess guess guess who will go to the climate protests?

climate protests? climate protests? It has to be someone who is truly concerned about the climate. climate. climate. It turns out, no, these are the people who are the least anxious, the people who have the have the have the most positive most positive most positive mood. They are the ones who go out to do something. And in a way, you didn't need to know about this study to understand this fact. For example, if you think about the fact that you just feel feel feel down and down and down and are in a really bad situation, you're not trying not trying not trying to fix the world, you're just trying just trying just trying to cope.

But it does mean that this connection between connection between connection between individual individual individual happiness and happiness and happiness and civic happiness civic happiness civic happiness is important. That if we give people the tools and tools and tools and skills to promote their their their individual individual individual happiness, it will empower them to fix bigger things. And so I think politicians think politicians think politicians need to realize that well-being at the individual individual individual level is not just a political goal. This can be a political tool that tool that tool that will help people achieve better achieve better achieve better outcomes in a broader sense.

broader sense. broader sense. It's time for a break, but Darin and I will return to further conversation further conversation further conversation when The when The when The Happiness Lab returns in a moment. Well, I have more questions than time, and I remember wanting to open this up to people . The Dartmouth tradition is that the student the student the student asks the first question. So if there is a brave student... brave student... brave student... Hello. Thank you for being here. My name is Mia. I am a first- first- first- year student.

I'm curious, what do you think is the connection between connection between connection between comparison and happiness? And to what extent can you really separate your separate your separate your happiness from evaluating it in comparison to someone else? someone else? For example, how can a college student find their own happiness without thinking, "Oh, I would be happier if my life looked like the life of so-and- so." so." so." Absolutely. So here's another stupid another stupid another stupid feature about feature about feature about how the mind works when it comes to happiness.

And how the mind works in general, it's not just about happiness, it's just the human mind human mind human mind written on a larger scale. We don't think about anything objectively. We objectively. We objectively. We only think about relative things. We are here, in this room with bright artificial bright artificial bright artificial lighting. When you go outside into a slightly darker slightly darker slightly darker corridor, you'll think, "Oh my God, it's so dark in here ." It's not that the corridor is dark, it's just lighter here.

You don't think about light in terms of its objective its objective its objective properties, you properties, you properties, you think about it relative to another space, right? space, right? space, right? This is how we think about everything, including our own level of whatever, our whatever, our whatever, our grades, our beauty, our salary. We ca n't even n't even n't even understand them understand them understand them objectively, we can only think about them relatively. And our brains have another insidious property, which is that we we we tend to never make this make this make this relative relative relative comparison to the things we are better at.

Therefore, we tend to look at the person who makes us feel worse about ourselves. My favorite boring favorite boring favorite boring example of this is the sports example. sports example. sports example. Researchers Researchers Researchers observed observed observed Olympic Olympic Olympic medalists on the podium and their emotional expressions. emotional expressions. emotional expressions. So, the gold medalist is extremely happy, very happy, very happy, very excited, right? excited, right? excited, right? What about the silver medalist? He's not just a little less little less little less fortunate than the gold medalist.

If medalist. If medalist. If you analyze their facial muscles, you can find that the silver medalists silver medalists silver medalists display display display emotions such as contempt and deep sadness. They are not a little less happy, they are unhappy . Why? They just feel like complete failures. They failures. They failures. They just look at the gold medalist and feel terrible, feel terrible, feel terrible, right? You can be objectively in the best of circumstances in life, and if your mind finds one person who is better than you, it will pay attention to that person and make it happen.

I very briefly very briefly very briefly consulted for an NBA team with basketball players, which is funny because I know nothing about basketball or sports in general. So I have to find ways to communicate with communicate with communicate with basketball players. But we talked about the insidiousness of insidiousness of insidiousness of social social social comparison even at the highest level in the NBA . And I asked them who they were comparing themselves to. I asked: "Who is your point of comparison, comparison, comparison, for example, in terms of salary now?" And then they said, " Oh, it's Steph Curry." And I asked, "Who is your point of comparison, comparison, comparison, for example, in terms of three-point shooting?" three-point shooting?" three-point shooting?" And they answered: " Steph Curry." And I asked, "Who is your height comparison?" And they said, "Oh, it's like Taco Fall." I thought, "Why isn't he Steph Curry in height ?" Because if you know basketball, Steph basketball, Steph basketball, Steph Curry is pretty short ." And they replied: " Well, I didn't think about him because of that." But how did you think of him for every other comparison.

other comparison. other comparison. Why not? So even at the highest level we chose terrible chose terrible chose terrible things, right? So I think one think one think one way to compare is to just be a little more sophisticated. That's how your mind works for everything. Of course, you will compare. will compare. will compare. But you need to realize that you can change can change can change this process a little. And that's why I like to bother and bother and bother and tell this tell this tell this story about the Olympians, because there's a third data point that I didn't mention.

I was talking about the gold and silver medalists. I didn't mention the bronze medalist. medalist. medalist. Researchers Researchers Researchers analyze their analyze their analyze their facial expressions, and it turns out that they are delighted. They often show more show more positive expressions positive expressions positive expressions than the gold medalist in some analyses. Why? Their point of comparison is not gold. They were a few seconds or a few points away from me. Their comparison is, "Oh, God, if I had done a little more, I would have gone home gone home gone home empty-handed." And empty-handed." And empty-handed." And so the joke is that you need to find not the light, but the bronze side.

You literally need literally need literally need to see, could it be worse? Is there another comparison I could find? And this intentional energy intentional energy intentional energy takes work, but it is possible. So, a little grace. Everyone does it. It's just how your mind works. But, if you look closely, you may find that objectively, things aren't so bad with you. Strive for Strive for Strive for third place in life. Yes, that's right. Professor Blanchflower Professor Blanchflower . . Thank you. I'm Danny Blanchflower. This is exactly the topic I was going to think about.

think about. think about. Darren and I were in Scotland for the 300th anniversary of of of Adam Smith's birth. And if you read the first page of "The Theory of Moral Sentiments," Moral Sentiments," Moral Sentiments," it says what you just said. He is actually saying, " We actually We actually We actually compare ourselves to others and care about the well-being of others." For a guy who wrote about markets. So, the relative thing is really important. really important. really important. Even I think that in a macroeconomic macroeconomic macroeconomic sense it is really important.

I'll just tell you about a Nobel Prize winner, whose name shall remain anonymous, who anonymous, who called me once, and I wrote about relative things, and he said, "I can buy anything I like, but I'm still interested in the salaries of my colleagues." So this is a big deal, right? If right? If right? If you think about it in macroeconomic macroeconomic macroeconomic terms, we've seen GDP growth, GDP growth, national income growth, and if you look at happiness, it's flat as a pancake. Well, what happens is that people compare themselves to others.

If I get a BMW, it's the work of our colleagues, if I get a BMW, it makes me happy, but if you if you if you get it, I'm not happy anymore. I mean, it's literally true. There is evidence that evidence that evidence that many more many more many more famous people famous people famous people find that if my income increases by 10%, that's fine, but if my income doesn't increase and everyone in the neighborhood gets 10% , I feel worse. So these comparisons are really important.

And I know you were talking about this on an individual individual individual level, but I obviously think it's really important for us to think about maybe your relationship with smartphones. When I was a child, I was 12 years old, and now I am old. I was 12, comparing myself to my sister and schoolmates. schoolmates. schoolmates. Perhaps what we have here is that the smartphone has changed the comparison group. comparison group. Comparison groups aren't real, are they? If I compare myself to my sister or to Darren or to someone else , that's okay.

But in a way, the connection between real things and smartphones is that smartphones change the comparison group. And until we can do that, the individual things you things you things you talked about don't matter. So I'm just trying to think about how we can actually get people get people get people to compare themselves to real things. Because if I've if I've if I've learned anything about the happiness work I've done, it's what you said: relative things matter. things matter. things matter. Yes. No, I think this is a very important point, do n't you?

It's comparing yourself, comparing yourself, comparing yourself, you know, if you're a student here, to everyone at Dartmouth, but it's also comparing also comparing also comparing yourself to literally everyone on the internet. And of course, what happens on happens on happens on the internet is completely curated, curated, curated, especially when it comes to beauty, to beauty, to beauty, you know, appearance, etc. It seems like it's all made up. And I think in the age of artificial intelligence that we're moving into, we're going to have even more comparisons that don't even exist, right?

And so it raises this interesting question of what we can do. Again , as a psychologist, I think about think about think about individual individual individual strategies that we can can can use. use. use. The idea is that you have some discretion over discretion over whether to pick up the phone and watch TikTok. watch TikTok. watch TikTok. Can you consciously notice how I feel when I do this? If I come off TikTok hating TikTok hating TikTok hating my body and wishing I could I could I could go to the gym, and feeling bad feeling bad feeling bad about my grades, try to notice when these comparisons come up , and are they really real?

This is the strategy strategy strategy of a journalist like Catherine Price, who has a great book, "How to Break Up with Your Phone," where Phone," where Phone," where she argues that you don't have to have to have to break up with your phone, but phone, but phone, but you need to turn to family to family to family psychology to psychology to psychology to build healthier build healthier build healthier relationships. She has a strategy that she uses. It's uses. It's uses. It's an abbreviation for WWW, which stands for "what for," " why now," and "what else," right?

Why did I pick up the phone? What do I use it for? What else could I do? But I like this WWW strategy because it's a moment for awareness. Why did I pick up the phone? How do I feel when I use it? If it makes you you you feel absolutely feel absolutely feel absolutely awful, if you have all these social comparisons, it's a hint to maybe maybe maybe throw those things away or to realize for a moment that one terrible thing about our minds our minds our minds is that we don't have much control over what other reference points for these social comparisons we comparisons we comparisons we use.

We use. We use. We just absorb everything we get. And get. And get. And especially those that put us in a bad light. And this means that we are constantly influenced by other people. And when these other people are real and around us, and with our our our peer group, that's one thing. When these other people are fake people on the internet with internet with internet with photo filters and stuff, it's much worse. worse. The question is right here. Um, I'm curious, since I'm a cognitive science major, given that people have sometimes started sometimes started sometimes started using using using AI as a replacement for mental health, like health, like health, like counselors, for example , AI can lead, if you prompt, it can lead to lead to lead to self-harm.

Do self-harm. Do self-harm. Do you have any suggestions, because suggestions, because suggestions, because even when you like to like to like to Google something, it's usually also also also AI-based answers. Like, I don't know, your know, your know, your point of view is "Yes." No, I like this question because I think we're going to need to think more and more about how these new technologies like technologies like technologies like AI and the LL.M. affect our affect our affect our happiness. In terms of chatbots and advice, or chatbots and therapy, or even chatbots and friendship, chatbots and relationships, I just did an episode with Jean Twenge, and she was talking about how most most most high school students will probably have probably have probably have their first their first their first romantic relationship romantic relationship romantic relationship with a chatbot.

Because it's easy, frictionless, you can talk to them about sexual things without talking to a real person, and we just have n't thought about it carefully at all. But with chatbots, therapy, chatbots, therapy, chatbots, therapy, chatbots, and friendship, I think you've identified a lot of the problems, namely that these tools aren't tools aren't tools aren't necessarily that good at distinguishing between good advice and bad advice. And sometimes, especially because a lot of the tools tools tools are designed to be a little bit more agreeable to you, you know, if you're like, "Oh, I want to do this horrible self-mutilation thing." self-mutilation thing." self-mutilation thing." Sometimes they tend to say, "Oh, that sounds great." I think these think these think these tools are getting better, especially better, especially better, especially given the horrific incidents that incidents that incidents that happen.

But yes, it is dangerous. I'm also concerned with the idea that social connections social connections social connections can seem can seem can seem a bit unreliable, they can be complicated. Many complicated. Many complicated. Many of us feel lonely. And that people actually actually actually turn to these tools only tools only tools only for friendship, advice , companionship. And there is some new work by by by Liz Dunn's group that finds that finds that finds that it is initially beneficial. For example, at a certain point it makes you feel less feel less feel less lonely, but in the long long long run it makes things worse.

worse. worse. It makes you lonelier. So I think it's kind of like the NutraSweet connection, NutraSweet connection, NutraSweet connection, where it feels good, it's sweet in the moment, but it doesn't give you the nutrition you need. Another thing I will say, just because I'm in a room with a lot of students who I'm very concerned about with AI, which I do n't think we're thinking about, is the impact of cognitive offloading. You offloading. You offloading. You let your let your let your chatbot just chatbot just chatbot just write your write your write your answer paper because it's a little faster, or you let your let your let your chatbot write chatbot write chatbot write your essay or do something complicated because you feel the friction of doing doing doing something complicated.

You encounter some resistance and you just translate just translate just translate it to this. There is a lot of work by people like Mickey Inslick and others that demonstrates the power of effort. These efforts are efforts are efforts are rewarding. We don't like like like doing it, but once we get through it, it's nice. We nice. We nice. We like to have our own ideas. We like to like to like to promote things. That's why those of you who read the New York Times Wordle in the morning don't just look at one of the many sites that has a Wordle answer and type it in.

You are trying to get ahead. It's nice, isn't it? But we don't think about the consequences of such a relief for the academic work of an entire generation, for the things of an entire generation. Where there are cognitive benefits cognitive benefits cognitive benefits from self- from self- from self- promotion of something, and I think we don't track the track the track the happiness cost of that. I see a bit of this in my students. Professors students. Professors students. Professors can sense when you are using an LLM.

They say: well, it was written by LLM. And I ask, “Oh, what do you think about the article? " How do you like this idea?" They're just not very keen on it. They just don't just don't just don't interact with it the same way . Something interesting is lost in this connection . Obviously, there are tuition costs tuition costs tuition costs and other types of expenses. I'm really I'm really I'm really interested in that little jolt of happiness, that little jolt of flow that you get from working hard working hard working hard on something.

I think we're going to lose that more and more over time , and I worry that's worry that's worry that's dangerous. dangerous. dangerous. By the way, what's involved with Wordle is also involved with learning the conjugations of conjugations of conjugations of irregular irregular irregular Latin verbs, Latin verbs, Latin verbs, just so people know . So, um, let's see. We're see. We're see. We're almost out of time, but I think we could ask could ask could ask one more question if anyone wants to argue. Yes. argue.

Yes. It seems like comparison is the thief of joy, but we are taught that ambition is what really matters. And economically, ambition and ambition and ambition and productivity are what our society prioritizes. So how do we reconcile this mindset that mindset that mindset that being a bronze medalist is medalist is medalist is okay with the idea that we want we want we want people to aspire to be gold medalists? medalists? medalists? Hmm. Hmm. One way way way to rephrase your question is to ask: what exactly makes us gold gold gold medalists in medalists in any field?

What exactly makes us makes us makes us excel, the excel, the excel, the best best best employees? No matter what achievement I choose, how do I achieve it? And I think our minds have this assumption that you just have to work until you burn out, kill yourself, force yourself, hurry, hurry, hurry, hurry, and you will reach your goal. And I think what we're learning is that it just doesn't work that way. Even if your goal is simply achievement at all costs and you don't care about your mental health, perhaps health, perhaps prioritizing your prioritizing your mental health will help you achieve you achieve you achieve that achievement more quickly.

And we see this in the context of our physical health, I think, a little better, right? You're here at Dartmouth, so I know a lot of you are athletes, and you've probably, if you're on a team or you're coaching, heard about concepts like concepts like concepts like active recreation, active recreation, active recreation, where, like, if you just kill yourself, keep keep keep training and training and training and giving 110% giving 110% all the time, you're going to get injured. get injured. get injured. Your body won't be able to handle it.

If you want to be optimal, you optimal, you optimal, you need moments of rest, rest, rest, de- de- de- stressing, etc. stressing, etc. stressing, etc. My interpretation of what's happening in the productivity literature productivity literature is that we're learning the same thing about mental health , burnout, etc.: if we just we just we just work hard work hard , , , work hard, even if your goal is just total productivity total productivity , you're not going to achieve it as effectively by effectively by effectively by doing that.

A four-day workweek four-day workweek four-day workweek produces better produces better produces better results than a five-day one. five-day one. five-day one. For example, For example, For example, rest, sleep, and relaxation relaxation relaxation improve your improve your improve your performance. performance. performance. There is a lot of evidence on the effects of sleep and grades that if you take an take an take an hour off from studying to sleep, you will likely study better and more successfully over time. However, there is also evidence, such as another end another end another end result of achievement , which is simply the end end end result of result of result of achieving achieving achieving capitalism, capitalism, capitalism, such as making as much as much as much money as possible, where researchers are learning that it is actually the act of resting, resting, focusing on focusing on focusing on happiness, doing what I'm talking about that seems to be important.

My favorite My favorite My favorite study from 2025: People have People have People have Spotify Wrapped from 2025, for example, and I always say that boring researchers boring researchers boring researchers want to have their favorites, it would be great if the app gave us a list of our favorite our favorite our favorite studies. But my favorite study from 2025 was 2025 was 2025 was conducted by conducted by conducted by Oxford Oxford Oxford researcher Jan- researcher Jan- Emmanuel De Neve, and he collaborated with the job search website Indeed, which I'm sure some of you know, to ask this ask this ask this question.

He says something like, “There are 15 million ratings on Indeed of all these things about things about things about people’s jobs, like their salary, etc., but one of the ratings they have is people’s happiness at work .” And he says, “Oh, these are ratings for 5,000 different public companies, public companies, public companies, right? So we could do the following. We could take the average job happiness score for each company and company and company and see if that predicts the predicts the predicts the company's stock performance." And we can imagine that this happens in happens in different ways.

We could have a theory that, for example, good stock performance stock performance stock performance is achieved through exploitation of exploitation of exploitation of workers, their workers, their workers, their miserable miserable miserable exploitation, pressure exploitation, pressure exploitation, pressure and coercion, but that is exactly how good performance is achieved . Jan . Jan . Jan Emmanuel De Neve finds exactly finds exactly finds exactly the opposite. There is an extremely strong extremely strong extremely strong correlation between the happiest happiest happiest companies and the best best best stock performance.

stock performance. stock performance. Just a perfect, wonderful correlation. wonderful correlation. wonderful correlation. In fact, the correlation was so was so was so high that De Neve created a stock index of the happiest companies. You know, like the S&P 500, where you can invest in it and it will make you money. You can invest in ...You can ...You can ...You can look at his website and see this , the top 100 companies on Indeed, and invest in this. And he found that every time the market has been in the market since 2021, I think, until the last last last data set, like 2025, these 100 these 100 these 100 welfare companies have outperformed the Dow Jones and the S&P 500.

This is a little a little a little investment investment investment piece of... You got it, you got it. A small small small snack that you can take with you. That's why you came tonight, is tonight, is tonight, is n't it? n't it? n't it? But my point is that we have the wrong theory wrong theory wrong theory about productivity. about productivity. about productivity. Whether for companies or individuals, we individuals, we individuals, we believe that pushing , pushing, pushing is the way to achieve more. But perhaps the way to achieve more is more is more is to rest, to rest, to rest, to focus on your positive your positive your positive attitude, to take a break.

I think even if all you care about is your bottom line, you need a different theory about how to do it well. The idea is this: to ask what makes a gold medalist gold medalist gold medalist become a gold medalist, right? medalist, right? medalist, right? Maybe a rest, maybe a break. Look at Alyssa Liu, who we know, we just had this great Olympics. Everyone watched her video. I think that's great, but if you know her story, you know what happened: she happened: she happened: she felt felt felt exhausted.

So she took a break. People told her, “This is nonsense. You nonsense. You nonsense. You will never be a good skier. "You skier. "You skier. "You 'll never be a good athlete, will you?" What happened? She took a break. I mean, her own explanation for this is that that's why she was able to win, right? So, I think that's the point. Even if you want to rush, rush, rush, rush, achieve rush, achieve rush, achieve as much as possible and be a gold medalist and a perfect student at Dartmouth Dartmouth Dartmouth College, you can do it by focusing on focusing on focusing on your well-being your well-being your well-being more than you expect.

Wow, that was great, Lori. Please Lori. Please Lori. Please join me in thanking her for ...