The Life-Changing Power of a Sabbatical | The Happiness Lab Podcast

Key Takeaway

Create a small version of a sabbatical today: block 90 minutes with no email, meetings, or career planning, then use that space for a hands-on curiosity experiment—pottery, hiking, music, cooking, or repairing something. The goal is not to discover your life’s passion or be productive; it is to step out of your usual work identity long enough to notice what restores your energy. Afterward, write down one activity or relationship you want to make more room for.

Episode Overview

Laurie Santos speaks with sabbatical researcher DJ Donna about why intentional, months-long breaks from regular work can aid recovery, creativity, confidence, relationships, and career clarity. They explore how individuals can plan and fund time away, how employers benefit from making leave possible, and why waiting until retirement is a risky way to postpone meaningful experiences.

Full Transcript

Transcript of The Life-Changing Power of a Sabbatical | The Happiness Lab Podcast from The Happiness Lab. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

Pushkin. Hello, listeners of the "Laboratory of Happiness." Happy August. This time of year, our show goes on a short summer break. And this is very appropriate, because I am about to start my own long break. The thing is, I will be on sabbatical as a professor at Yale University for the entire academic year. It's really exciting to take a break, but to be honest, I'm a little worried that taking a break from teaching might be more difficult than I expect. Will it be strange to drastically change all my usual routines ?

How can I best make the most of this privileged opportunity to take some time to rest, recharge, and reflect? Fortunately , there are great answers to these questions in a fascinating new book, Big Time Off: The Transformative Power of Sabbaticals and How to Take One. It was written by my good friend and colleague DJ Donna, a professor at Harvard Business School and an expert on why rest is so important. DJ and I had the opportunity to talk about the transformative power of relaxation last year during a live release at the South by Southwest festival.

I decided to share this episode with you again this week, mostly because I needed to be reminded of all of DJ's great advice . And if you're feeling a bit overwhelmed in your work life and thinking about taking a break, I highly recommend checking out DJ's new book, Big Time Off. It is already on sale. So here we are with DJ recording " Happiness Lab" live at South by Southwest. Work takes up a lot of our time and mental resources. I'm sure you've had moments when you dreamed of a vacation or even fantasized about retirement.

But there is another option for taking a break from your routine. A solution that will help you recharge and reevaluate your priorities. This is called a creative vacation. As a professor, I had the opportunity to take a sabbatical every few years. And I spoke frankly on the show about how restorative and important these breaks were. But what if you're not a professor? Can you still take a multi-month vacation from work? It may seem like an impossible dream, but more and more employers are starting to realize that extended vacation time for employees is beneficial.

So, to discuss the spread of creative vacations and their many benefits, I recorded a live episode of “Happiness Lab” at the 2025 South by Southwest festival in Austin. And I was able to talk to one of the leading popularizers of modern creative vacations. Welcome to the Happiness Lab here at the South by Southwest festival. I'm here in front of a wonderful audience, and today we're going to talk about the importance of creative vacations and relaxation. I'm excited to introduce my guest today, DJ Donna. DJ is a senior lecturer at Harvard Business School.

In the past, he was a co-founder of EF Global. DJ currently dedicates his time to studying creative vacations and their transformative impact. He recently founded The Sabbatical Project , a nonprofit organization that aims to make long-term vacations the norm, not the exception. This is the world I definitely want to live in. DJ's work on the transformative benefits of creative sabbaticals was named the New Idea of ​​2025 at Harvard Business School. So I think we'll see a lot more creative vacations this year than before . DJ's work has been published in The Atlantic, Time, Fast Company, Fortune, The Wall Street Journal, and many other publications.

Today we'll talk about the research that explains the importance of taking long breaks , and how to convince yourself and your employer that you need them. Join me in congratulating DJ Donna. So, DJ, I'm curious how you became such a fan of creative vacations. As far as I understand, it all started when you yourself needed such a vacation. The moment you call your "ice cream sandwich moment." What was that? I ended up in " creative vacation land," as I call it, like most people— unintentionally. So if you don't take a creative vacation, it will likely take you.

I had been running my company for seven years, I was feeling less and less energy, it was hard to get out of bed, and my face looked even worse than it does now. My co-founders asked, "Are you okay?" I think at a certain point, when it's your dream job and you can't get out of bed to do it, there's a problem. This brings up a whole range of emotions, such as: "If this doesn't make me happy, what will?" That ice cream sandwich moment happened one particularly sad weekend.

It was Friday, I had no plans . I was watching a depressing series on Netflix and thought I just really wanted an ice cream sandwich. I lived in Cambridge, where you can make a lot of mistakes late at night. And, you know , I didn't want to go to that bakery by myself late on a Friday night. So I thought I'd just place an order. And I didn't want the courier to think I was some kind of loser. So I decided to order two ice cream sandwiches at once .

I went down, picked up the order, said: " Hey, I'm leaving." I came back, ate one of them—fortunately, only one, not two. Then I tried to stuff that pizza-sized box into the fridge. The next morning I woke up to find the refrigerator had defrosted and ruined the floor. And I'm like, "Okay, this is a sign that I need a creative vacation." So I ended up in the " vacation country". So, you decided to take a vacation, even though you were leading a company you loved. Was that scary?

What was in your mind when you made this decision? You know, one of the reasons it's called a " creative vacation" is because it's a convenient term for what feels like your life is ending, right? And I think I talked to my co-founder, and he was feeling some burnout too, especially from an entrepreneurial perspective. I believe that if you can't build an organization that can survive without you in seven or ten years, you haven't done your job well. So we both understood: hey, let's give ourselves some time to get away from things.

But, to be honest, I had no idea what lay ahead. I started this with the idea that I would return to the company, but I just couldn't continue the way things were. So I decided to step away from things. Four months seemed like the longest break in my life, probably eight times longer than any other. But, yes, that's what I decided to do. And what happened? When I think about how to describe my vacation, because everyone's vacation is different, I don't want to intimidate people who may not be able or willing to do what I did.

There were significant events there. For example, I made an 800- mile pilgrimage in Japan. I really wanted to delve into the spiritual aspect. Things I considered important but rarely urgent. Do you understand? That was the main event. But in reality, some of the most meaningful moments during my sabbatical were the ones I don't talk about publicly. I was caring for one of my parents, helping him recover. So I came home, you know, at 32, and I cooked a lot of meals. I helped a cousin move, and another cousin build a terrace.

I even hung the cabinets myself after gaining that experience. And, you know, I wrote my first song. I bought a ukulele on Amazon, which is quite inconvenient, and took it with me on my trip. So I wrote and performed my first song where absolutely no one knew me. You know, that was useful. Steeply. I think we'll talk about the lessons we can learn from this experience soon, but I want to start with definitions because I'm a boring professor , and that's my habit. So how do you define what a creative vacation is?

I think of it as a deliberate, long break from your normal work. " Intentional" does not mean that you made the decision to go on vacation, because they often happen by themselves, but what is important is that you continue to be in this state once you have gone. After all, as soon as we leave a job, our new job becomes finding another one, right? It's very difficult to be in this in-between state between careers or jobs. So, for this to truly be a creative vacation, you have to create space and not look for another job.

" Long-term" means that it should be measured in months, not weeks. I think it's worth saying at least 3 months. I took four. I wish there were six of them. Most people, I think, would like to take between six and twelve. Nine months is very symbolic because it's like you're giving birth to something new. And "from a regular job": most people, especially successful careerists— maybe there are some in this room—will say, "Okay, I'll quit my job, and then I'll learn a foreign language or write a book." Our research has shown that this kind of active recreation actually works.

Doing something that isn't your job can be beneficial and healing, as long as it's completely different from your usual activities. Yes? So don't take on consulting projects just to make a little more money. Really step out of your routine , your usual routine , to do something that brings you pleasure. So write that book, become a certified yoga instructor, right? But it has to be radically different from what you're doing now. It's a pretty funny word, isn't it? You used the term " long vacation". This is not a vacation.

This is a creative vacation. It almost sounds like something old-fashioned, like something out of the Bible—"sabbath," right? I mean, is this intentional? Where did this concept come from? Yes. The root of this word is ancient, coming from the Hebrew scriptures—"Shabbat," right ? And here's the concept: you work six days and dedicate the seventh to worship. This also extended to the requirement to cultivate the fields for six years and let them rest on the seventh. So, that's the concept of rest, right? That you should have a rest period of time.

Then it was adopted in academic circles. At the end of the 19th century, the president of Harvard...I looked at the records, the minutes of the meetings, it's interesting. They investigated how much rest teachers need to recover and also to engage in research. So they had to travel to Europe to understand what was really happening in the scientific world. And the funny thing is that the definition there talked about rest, recovery, as well as the development of science and knowledge. And if you look at it now, the part about rest and recovery has completely and rather questionably disappeared from all these academic sabbatical policies.

But this is the basic story of the origin of the term. Yes. As a professor, many in academia get something of a creative sabbatical, although that seems to be disappearing. But that's really rare in other fields, isn't it? An absolute rarity, and it's becoming less and less common in academia. People either don't get paid for it, or it's reduced to one semester. Maybe we'll talk about your vacation later, but, you know, about 5% of companies offer this kind of policy. This is much more common in the tech sector and in companies that are really trying to attract and retain talent.

This is growing. So, the figure has doubled since 2019. And it seems to be gradually growing, but it's still clearly a minority, especially paid creative leave with certain benefits and things like that . So, you implemented an interesting project in which you scientifically researched creative vacations: you conducted hundreds of interviews and dozens of academic studies. I'm curious who takes such vacations and why ? When I started, I thought I was the target audience —middle- aged people (30–40 years old) who were burned out. But later I realized that people start doing this during their academic sabbatical after their studies.

They join their parents' creative vacations. So, when considering the research for the book, we cover the period from academic sabbaticals to the end of our careers. That is, in essence, pre-retirement age. This applies to anyone who had to take a break due to circumstances, or who took the opportunity to rest . I think academic sabbaticals are a great example of this. So why do they take them? What exactly is happening? Yes. You know, two- thirds of creative sabbaticals happen because of some negative event. It's either a health crisis, or a layoff, or, say, a global catastrophe or pandemic that forces you to look at work differently.

But there are also positive triggers, right? For example, selling a company or receiving official leave from your employer. And there are also neutral factors: if the company has a policy of providing creative leave, you just take it without even thinking about it. Many companies now offer this. And there are countries that create the conditions for this. For example, in Sweden you can take 6 months of leave to try to start your own business. In Australia, civil servants get half a year of leave every seven years.

Wow, I didn't know there were countries where they practiced this. This is amazing. It also reminds me that your research has uncovered a lot of misconceptions about creative sabbaticals. Let's examine some of them . When I hear about a sabbatical, I think it's just an extended vacation. What makes it different? Everyone who has taken a creative vacation has also been on regular vacations, and they say that something radically different is happening here. During a regular vacation, all the things you're supposedly resting from pile up behind you , right?

Your mailbox is overflowing with letters. You know you're going to have to go back to work and sort it all out. When you're on a sabbatical, you're away long enough for these things to fall off your agenda, so you can immerse yourself more deeply in what's going on and not worry about work. Another common misconception is that a sabbatical is essentially a midlife crisis. This is your nervous breakdown. You don't know what to do. You are burning out. Apparently, this is part of some vacations, but it doesn't define their essence.

Yes. So we talked about the times when people take creative sabbaticals throughout their lives, and whether you take the sabbatical or the sabbatical chooses you. This can very well happen when you live a life that doesn't feel real to you for so long that you feel the need to burn bridges and set sail. I think my midlife crisis was a bit premature— I hope, a little before middle age. Think of it like a visit to the dentist for a cleaning. You want to attend these cleansing sessions, right?

We don't like them, but we try to go every 6 months so that we don't have to urgently treat the root canals later. So the point of all this is to learn to identify turning points in your life to take a vacation, rather than waiting for a major crisis to force you into it. Okay, here's another mistake that I think comes from the employer. The idea that a creative vacation is just a “golden parachute.” It's like you're taking a break from work, which you were already planning to run away from as soon as possible.

Is that true? So, our research has shown that the vast majority of people who go on a company-sponsored creative vacation return. Yes, over 80% return to their jobs. So, it's not really a " golden parachute." Of course, people do get fired, but the difference is—and we can discuss this in more detail in terms of the benefits for companies. The difference is that you spend a lot of time preparing the company to handle all your tasks before you go on vacation. So it's like you're preparing the company for your absence.

You also give the company a chance to see exactly what you do. Who else could do this? Who could take on more responsibilities in your environment, and so on. So it's not exactly a "golden parachute," although people sometimes get fired. I think the argument is that if someone is going to leave as soon as you let them out the door and let them off the leash, then was their job that great? Yes. Do we have data on this? For example , how many people actually get fired after a sabbatical?

About 20%. Yes. So the figure is not zero, but it is not 80% or 100%. And you know, 100% of those who don't have a creative leave policy at work quit to go on sabbatical. Yes. Rightly. That's right. That's right. And this brings us to another misconception, namely the idea that sabbaticals are quite costly for business. But you argue that it is better to view them as an investment. What do you mean? Yes. I think, listen, as I said before about an entrepreneurial company: if it can't survive without your participation as a leader, that's a problem.

Similarly, turnover is simply something that happens; How many people here have been laid off? That was a lot of hands, for listeners who didn't get off work, um. So people will still leave, and as a company, you have to be prepared for that. You have to be resilient to survive employee turnover. People will be fired; they will go on maternity leave. So, this is practice. It's like exercising your muscles: figuring out what your tasks are, delegating them to other people, and really investing in that "muscle" as a company.

So after the break, we'll learn why a sabbatical can be such a worthwhile investment, not only for the person taking it, but even more so for the company allowing it. "Happiness Lab" will be back in a moment. You're listening to a live episode of "Happiness Lab," recorded at South by Southwest 2025 with my friend and sabbatical expert, DJ Donna. I started this part of the show by asking DJ to tell us about the average sabbatical and explain how the benefits of such a break typically manifest themselves.

Yes. So, from a personal perspective, I think you can expect a lot. And if you come into your sabbatical very burned out, then you probably need to heal, and that will be the first thing you get. In my research and interviews, I've talked to a lot of people who had some kind of physical ailment—whether it was ulcers , stomach or gastro problems—and the doctors would tell them, "It's stress-related," but until they took time off work long enough for it to heal, they couldn't deal with it , right?

So I think healing is one of the very first things. Creativity is one of the following things. So, you take a vacation and do whatever you want. And that ultimately seems to reignite a lot of creative energy. For me, it was writing stupid songs on the ukulele, but do what you want. For some reason, we consider working on ourselves to be work, not play. So there's the concept of identity play, which helps you run little experiments to figure out what to do next. And also, I think confidence is very important.

Whether or not your company has a sabbatical policy , it's scary enough to disappear for an extended period of time. I, for example, have never taken more than a couple of weeks off, probably since high school. So taking four months off is scary. Especially if you are fired, what will you do after that? Well, something along those lines. So the ability to do something that seems scary and then come back and say, "Actually, I'm okay." This really gives people the confidence to take big steps and decisive actions.

It's also an opportunity to experiment during your vacation, like, "Oh, I thought I wanted to write, and I really like writing." And it develops confidence and the ability to do it. It seems, from your research and conversations with people, that these benefits are very common. This is exactly what you hear from everyone who takes a creative sabbatical. Yes. It's funny because after I came back from vacation, I said I really changed as a person. My identity was closely tied to the company: if the company is successful, then I am successful.

If not, then neither do I. So I managed to free myself from that in a way. But I wanted to make sure that this was n't just my experience. And the more people I interviewed, the more often I heard definitions like "peak life experience." This can be compared to the birth of a child or marriage. You are creating an event for yourself that will become one of the most important moments in your life. It also seems like you have time to notice things you don't. In your works, you've talked a lot about the concept of functional workaholism and how creative sabbaticals can help us understand this a little.

What do you mean? Yes. We talk a lot about burnout. I view burnout as a spectrum. So you're kind of burning out, right? You exist in a state where you are not working at your full potential and you are not feeling very well. This is difficult to realize unless you go beyond this state. Regarding this exit, I'm guessing you've all had this experience: you go on vacation for a week, and at the end you think, "Oh my god, I just started to relax, and now I have to go back to work." So it's worth getting out of that rhythm for a long time to say, "Wow, the way I've been working and living is n't really benefiting me." And I want to get away from that for a little while.

Maybe I want to make some serious changes. Of course, people's experiences during Covid were different, but many saw, " Oh, now that I'm home with my family, I actually want to spend more time with them," and that the way I was returning to my family, or even the way I was working, wasn't very good. So you needed an outside perspective and a long enough break from the norm to understand it. This also ties into the idea you talked about called " regret insurance," perhaps as a benefit that comes later in life.

What is this? How is that? Imagine you are your grandparents' age and you are telling your grandchild a story—what do you want to be in that story? Bronnie Weir, a palliative care nurse , talks about the five regrets of the dying and how a person has not lived a life that is true to themselves. If you close your eyes right now and think about what I would like to do with my life if I could, could that happen in the life you are living right now?

Maybe, but most likely not. This takes a little time. And taking a six-month break on the scale of 40 years of work isn't that much. It's less, it's about 2%. I mean, if you knew then what you know now, would you have chosen a creative sabbatical again? Would you have done it differently? Yes. In fact, one of the things that inspired me to take a sabbatical was advice from a mentor. I came to his office and complained, "Hey, this is hard." This is difficult. The company isn't working as efficiently as I'd like, or something.

And he said, "DJ, if you knew then what you know now about your life and your company , would you go back to this company tomorrow?" And the answer was obvious. I replied : "Absolutely not." That's why I think the most difficult thing in our lives is that we live by inertia. You make a bunch of small decisions, and suddenly you find yourself on this path. So I encourage you to think: would you want to go back to that kind of life, and if not, how would you experiment to figure out what other path you should take?

This is a long answer to your question, but I look back on that time and it is the most memorable period of my entire life. Exactly 8 years ago I traveled to Japan. And I think that will serve me throughout my life. So, it seems that creative vacations are beneficial for those who take them. But now I really want to move on to the benefits that employers get, because I think that's one of the reasons why such leave is not available to everyone and not every company provides it, right?

I think employers are very worried about whether it will be too expensive for companies. We’ve already discussed some of these benefits a bit, but I want to dig deeper into what companies actually gain by implementing a creative leave policy? Yes, that's a valid point in the sense that the best-case scenario is a creative sabbatical that doesn't require you to ruin your life or save money for 10 years, but becomes possible because the company values ​​you enough to do so. And all of us who work in companies and are managers also remain human.

So we take off our " human" hat and put on our " corporate" hat. This resilience is a huge factor, as the company must be able to withstand what is called the risk of irreplaceability of a key employee . One of the interviewers was the director and founder of a boarding school in South Africa, and he had been there from day one. After 10 years, he took a 6- month leave because his wife was studying in Europe, and in stepping away from things, he saw that some things worked very well even in his absence, maybe even a little better, right?

Operational activities. And other things, like fundraising, have sagged incredibly hard, right? So the organization was able to see how things worked when he stepped away from things, and, you know, the younger employees were able to take on new roles and gain career growth experience; but he was also able to realize, "Okay, if I get hit by a bus tomorrow, this whole thing will fall apart, and that's not a good thing." So, essentially, developing resilience to say, okay, if I want to change operations, what skills do I need to manage processes within the organization?

So, I think it's seniority and commitment to the company. We talk a lot about people finding meaning in work, but ultimately, sorry, most companies fail to provide much meaning and purpose. So, yes. Yes. And that's okay. This is normal. But I think what a company can do is give you time to yourself to do what makes sense for you. I believe that the result of this is that people become more loyal to the company. One of our respondents worked for the US Treasury Department, and they had a long-term leave policy where you could take six months off.

She was able to go mountain climbing and trekking in Latin America. And this time was enough to say: I like trekking. I like being on vacation, but I also really love my job, you know, working in international development. She didn't plan to start a family. She says: I appreciate the opportunity to step away from work for a while and start appreciating it again, and I know I can do that every 7–10 years. So this kind of loyalty, in my opinion, also creates an authentic corporate culture.

Because there's a financial consulting firm in Seattle called Brighton Jones that gives these creative vacations every 10 years, and people come back, make slideshows of their vacations, and everyone's happy for them because they know they'll get that opportunity too. So the company values ​​you as a person, and they can celebrate your experience because they know they can get it too, which is different from someone saying, "I had a great honeymoon." And you think, "Oh my God, I don't have one ." You know, you also argued that this can help employees increase their level of innovation over time.

And this is not necessarily due to skill development, although in some cases during creative vacations this also happens. Rather, it is leisure that stimulates these innovations. Yes. So, one of the interviewees was the CTO of an IT company, he quit his job and started doing this kind of "identity game " that I was talking about. He was a developer back in college, but he did n't really have any experience building mobile apps, so he just experimented and built a text-to-speech app, you know? And that later turned into the company he founded.

It all started with a simple desire to learn and play. I believe that this "gaming muscle" is very underrated. And I think it's really important for people to take a break and regain their ability to creatively solve problems, because you never know what's around the corner as technology accelerates. So you have to be able to think outside the box . And it's also good for companies when people come back, I think. Quite. Yes. So you have to solve problems within companies, right? So it becomes obvious that creative vacations are a good idea for employees.

This is a good idea for companies. Probably a good idea for society and for us as people, right? Yes. Yes. But only 5% of non-academic companies implement this. So, DJ, this is now your life's mission, your dream—to make these kinds of vacations more accessible. But to do this, we must overcome all the barriers that we and our employers experience when it comes to providing creative leave. And we'll get to those barriers right after the break. " Happiness Laboratory" live from the South by Southwest festival. We will be back soon.

Creative sabbaticals seem like a good idea, but let's discuss some of the fears people have when they consider taking one , or the real obstacles that arise when you're essentially " undermining" your life for half a year. One of those barriers is appearance, right? I think people are really concerned about how it will look from the side. Have you encountered this personally? When I first started thinking about barriers , about seven years ago, external perception was one of the biggest, right? So what will people think about you taking a break?

Since then, everything has changed significantly. And I think one of the factors that contributed to that was LinkedIn adding a "career break" category that you can add to your profile, and it's just great. Now hundreds of thousands of people proudly talk about their career breaks. Another thing is that the idea of ​​a successful business and a successful life is also changing. People are starting to hear not only about CEOs running multiple companies while sleeping under their desks, they are starting to understand that people like Steve Jobs, for example, studied calligraphy for a year, and the CEO of Impossible Foods invented his company during a creative sabbatical.

In fact, there are many ways to find creative energy when you take a break. Another thing I think about is this: if you're interviewing and you say you took a career break and you get disqualified because of it, that's a great sign that maybe you didn't want to work for that company. It's like identifying true priorities. Also, I've noticed that in interviews people want to chat: "Oh, you traveled for 6 months, what did you do?" »“What was your favorite?”—it makes you an interesting person, and it also shows that you had the courage and confidence to take a break and take time for yourself, and I think most people would say, “That’s cool, I want to see someone like that on the team .” So it seems like the situation is changing, but at the same time we need to change our own perception in our heads.

Part of the image problem is not only how others judge us, but also how we judge ourselves. Yes. I conducted a survey of my Harvard Business School classmates 10 years after graduation: 90% were worried about what a career break would look like, but less than 5% were actually concerned about whether anyone had taken one. It's a strange dynamic: you assume you might be taken less seriously, but in reality, that's not the case at all. The way to solve this problem that we identified in our research is the concept of “ instances,” which is a complex term for “examples.” Find a role model in your life— someone who looks like you, someone who had the same job as you and took a vacation like that, so you can see, “Oh, I’ll be fine when I get back.” I like this example because it seems like part of the problem with vacations is that for many, it's the first time they've allowed themselves to do anything outside of work for any length of time.

This is very uncomfortable. This is an unnatural feeling. It kind of creates a vacuum, doesn't it? With so many responsibilities, and even though you don't want to check your email when you suddenly find yourself cut off from it and your calendar, starting a creative sabbatical can be challenging. And this is the point that I think people don't understand. Like, you're on vacation, it's supposed to be great, but you're actually kicking yourself for leaving without knowing what to do next. So it's like a personality transformation. And to transform yourself, you have to really think hard and, you know, figure out who you really are.

Okay, that's a view from the inside and outside. Another important practical thing is responsibility. We have professional responsibilities, personal matters, we are parents, there are logistical challenges. How did you cope with all this? And what would be your advice? I think almost no one can get rid of all their responsibilities from today, right? And if you treat it as an emergency removal of the nerve in the tooth, then it's difficult. If you ask what everyone here will be doing in 2031, no one has any idea, right?

So if you say you're taking 6 months off in 2031 and working for it, man. By the way, 2031 is almost here . Yes, 2031 is not that far away, but it will be cool for the people in this room , because everyone started nodding when you mentioned 2031, right ? So if you can plan ahead and say, "I'm going to commit to taking six months off," then suddenly you can save up for it. You can warn your employers and it won't be a problem. It's just part of who I am.

I will take six months off in six years. Another thing that is talked about a lot is responsibilities. I have children , and I'm thinking: how will I pick them up from school and then bring them back? Again and again, this remains a difficult point. But people with children who take creative sabbaticals have the most inspiring stories, without a doubt. Because they say this: "I started to perceive my children as a set of responsibilities and tasks : take them here, pick them up from there." Although what's really happening is that parents are showing their children what astronomy is.

Oh, you see the stars in Patagonia, you contemplate them and admire them. Or what is zoology? You go to the Serengeti and see the animals up close. What is geology? You are, for example, in the Grand Canyon. And it allows you to see the world through their eyes and truly give them an experience that will stay with them for a lifetime. There's a movie called The Shimmer that we watched, I don't know if you've seen it, it was distributed by Nat Geo. And this is the story of a family from Quebec where it seems like three or four children have a certain type of retinal degeneration disease .

So they only have a certain amount of time during which their children will be able to see the world. So they decided to take a year off so the children could absorb as many impressions about the world as possible. I think of it as a shift from the responsibility that you have to bear to the responsibility of allowing your children, you and your spouse, or yourself to have experiences of knowing the world differently than in our daily lives. I also think it's really helpful for parents to show their children and be an example of how to relax and also not be so exhausted when interacting with their children.

I worry about some of my adult friends with children because those children have only seen their parents extremely stressed, and I think it must be very restorative for children to see their parents relax too. Certainly. You should lead by example, right? And I have two good friends who are currently on a creative sabbatical in Kenya. And just seeing them go from having groceries delivered and ready meals and not having time for anything, to teaching their kids to ride bikes— you know? It's really inspiring, and life is so short, right?

Again, the positive aspect of the pandemic for many people has been the realization that life is fragile and short, and you can't even rely on 2031 . Who knows? So maybe you should plan your creative vacation for 2029. Yes, we need to, we need to do this as soon as possible. Okay , we talked about perspective, we talked about responsibility. I think the main issue that everyone keeps quiet about when it comes to creative vacations is the cost, right? From a financial perspective, if you were to poll most people, I'd guess they would say that sounds great, but it's just completely unattainable.

How do we solve this? The first and obvious answer is that if it is supported by companies, countries, and our culture, then it is not a problem at all . And if you can plan it in advance, right? So, a couple of the study participants were teachers. They took a creative vacation right before the wedding and traveled the world with backpacks. They thought, "We want to do this when our kids are a certain age." So they saved money for 10 years because it was important to them.

And they did it. And it turned out that they drove a Land Rover from Arizona all the way to the very tip of South America. It turned out that the Land Rover needed so much maintenance that the man became a true repairman. He came back and said, "You know, I want to start a business related to Land Rovers." So now he restores Land Rovers and gives tours for people . But yeah, if you think it has to happen tomorrow, then few people can afford it. But if you plan for it and say, “This is important to me.

I will save 5% per year”, then it is not such a big problem. I would also like to say that I have heard this over and over again: when you work for a company, you get promoted on a certain schedule. For example, they give you a 5% bonus or determine what you are entitled to. When you change jobs, you actually get paid much more because your qualifications are valued at market value. That's why many people say, "I quit my job." I wasn't given a creative sabbatical.

I moved to another company and got a raise." So it effectively made the vacation free. Of course, everyone has their own experiences, but this is a dynamic we often find ourselves in when we work at the same company for a long time. You also mentioned that it's worth just asking, because many companies have such hidden policies that are not customary to talk about. Yes. There are such " secret" rules. I think if you want to do it and you've already set yourself up, saying to yourself, "Look, either I leave or they give me a leave of absence, and if they don't—I'm leaving anyway." Then you can talk about it openly with your manager.

I've seen many times someone say, " Okay, let's try to come up with something." Can we wait a year to prepare the team? "Okay, great." How about we don't pay full salary, but maybe a partial one or just keep social benefits? And we see that most people, if you just keep the benefits, because that's what's scary, can save up for it. And again , how long do you plan to do this? But first, I would talk to people who are not your managers and try to find an example, and then you can bring up this topic.

I mean, one of the reasons we have a kind of support group on Facebook and LinkedIn where you can ask others about their best experiences is to be able to find people who may have worked in your industry or company and have already taken this kind of leave. So that's useful. OK. So, here's how we can personally overcome some of these barriers. Let's talk about some structural barriers. I hope there are people in the room who are employers themselves, perhaps CEOs of large companies, who hear about these benefits and want to start offering creative leave policies or develop corporate rules that will help employees implement them.

What do employers really need to make creative vacations a reality ? To make it fair to people, it has to be paid for, right? So let people take vacations without significant financial losses. I believe that for success, the worst thing that can happen is to introduce a short creative vacation or not allow employees to disconnect from work, and then you will have people who left their jobs but did not receive the expected benefits. And give people enough time, ideally a month; You know, our research has shown that it takes 6 to 8 weeks for you to truly become yourself again.

Think about it. You take a two-week vacation or up to two months to really feel, “ Oh, this is me.” I am not just a set of work tasks and responsibilities . So give them enough time and ensure a complete shutdown. It is best practice to turn off automatic email replies. You'd be surprised if you had an autoresponder that said, "I'm back in the office in September." "I'm deleting this entire mailbox." For example: "Write to me in September." People will just write to you in September.

This is not the end of the world. So, the disconnect, I believe, is duration and support. You also talked about ways companies can make this the norm or show that it's not a bad thing. What are some ways companies can do this? So, there is a certain norm, the so-called norm of work commitment, when people feel that they supposedly have to be completely devoted to their work. They can't afford to look like they're taking the weekend. This is why things like unlimited vacation are complete nonsense that doesn't work because you don't see others taking vacation, and therefore don't feel like you can take it yourself.

So I think the first thing leaders can do is take breaks themselves to set an example for others. In Sweden too ...Listen, Sweden is often mentioned in this episode today. Um, Sweden also has one of the best parental leave systems in the world . And they found that even with paid leave, parents were hesitant to take it unless their managers did so. You should demonstrate this behavior and encourage it within the company so that people can benefit from it. What are some examples of positive impact on organizations from their leaders?

Is this only beneficial for people in management positions, or do you see regular employees also taking vacations and benefiting from it ? Yes. This is much less common among employees at different levels of the organization due to financial obligations and other similar reasons. I spoke with representatives of the startup Skylight. In the early stages of a startup, if you've ever worked in one or launched one, no one takes a creative vacation. But if you manage to get through the first four or five years, then you can find an opportunity for relaxation.

Here is the CEO , Michael, allowing his first employee, who was very exhausted, to go on vacation. He let her take two months off, and when she came back— which is a bit beyond a normal vacation—she researched a bunch of AI tools, got trained, and was able to implement it into a product that made it quite successful and changed the trajectory of the company. Another example I like to share is CEO Cheryl Johnson of an organization in Detroit. This is a coalition to end homelessness, and there are sponsors that fund nonprofits in cities like Detroit, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Boston.

They convince nonprofit boards to allow leaders and staff to take vacations and even fund them. Do you understand? The purpose of this, again, is to prevent the risk of losing a key person in a nonprofit organization where the leader is extremely important and charismatic. They're convincing these boards of directors to let go of nonprofit workers , because burnout started in the social sector, right? I'm talking about nurses, healthcare workers , nonprofit leaders: if you really care about your job, you don't want to quit it because you feel like you're letting people down.

And so, I think in the nonprofit industry, you often see that too . You've also seen some of the creative solutions that have been devised on some of the jobs. You mentioned the idea of ​​a pre-bath vacation, which I think is quite clever . What is this? Yes. So, this appeared during the " great liberation" . Everyone said: "I'm quitting my job." This is amazing. And then many got really good offers from other companies and other jobs. And they're like, "Well, actually, I'll just start this other job." And I think it's foolish to think that your burnout at work will go away just because you've moved on to another job.

Yes. You pick up your things, and by the time you get to the car, the burnout is over, right? Yes. You run on adrenaline, right? So, you've been through this adrenaline rush, but I think companies actually benefit from people taking time off. And the easiest creative vacation is when you already have a job. I teach at a business school, and you get a job at a consulting firm and can delay starting. So, you know you have a job waiting for you and you don't have to worry about money.

Therefore, I believe that giving people the opportunity to come to the organization without burnout, with enthusiasm for work, is a great approach. Good. Let's say someone is listening to us right now and is convinced that the time has come. They are ready to overcome all these barriers. A long break—that's exactly what they want to do. What advice do you have for those who are interested in a creative sabbatical and are ready to finally take one? I think, first of all, we need to ask others. Try to find a role model.

I believe that defining a framework for a creative vacation is very important. I don't want to give advice on a specific vacation , but you should allow enough time. You need to make sure you disconnect from work enough, and part of that means traveling if possible, meaning getting outside your usual space. And partly it means getting out of your routines, because at the beginning of a vacation there is a certain feeling of emptiness. When you're cleaning up all your responsibilities, it can help to have some structure, especially at the beginning of your vacation.

You want to do something that takes you out of your own thoughts: training to be a yoga instructor, pottery, or something where you work with your hands , like hiking. Cabinet building, as we heard. Yes. Yes, that's right. Just don't suggest going to IKEA. It doesn't cause stress. Step out of your thoughts and into your body, considering the stages of a creative vacation: healing at the beginning, experimentation in the middle, and integration at the end. Indeed, it is worth conducting so- called counterfactual experiments: what would my life be like if I were doing this instead of what I am doing now.

One of my favorite stories is about a consultant who took a sabbatical every four years and said, "When I retire, I want to run an eco-lodge." So he spent his vacation volunteering , working in the kitchen and office of eco-lodges, and realized, "This is n't really for me ." Yes? This is how, by conducting such experiments, you avoid regret in the future. You also talked about the importance of using creative sabbaticals to focus on relationships. I know why this is important from a happiness science perspective—science proves that social connections are critical to happiness.

But why can this be so important and transformative during a creative vacation? I think you may be getting too deep into yourself. Therefore, I view creative vacations as having three archetypes. There are "achievers" who strive to achieve something, type "A" people. B — "researchers." These are people who just want to see the world and explore it, as well as “seekers” who want to find something new, like me when I wanted to take a spiritual journey. And there are still people who need healing. So one of the difficult things is that you spend so much time thinking about yourself and what you want because you're kind of exhausted.

You want to go out and do everything, but in the end, you only focus on yourself. Focusing on relationships is important for happiness. It takes you out of your head to questions like: what is really important to us? Why are we here? And secondly, I think when you get older, everyone has their own schedule, and you try to balance everything. So this allows you to remove the planning difficulties from one side of the equation. You can simply blend into someone's life when it's convenient for them.

So, to some extent, this can stimulate, invigorate, and renew relationships that may have cooled somewhat. This is so interesting, because some of you fans of "The Happiness Lab" know that I once went on my own creative sabbatical when I was feeling completely burned out, and I think one of the unexpected benefits was actually strengthening relationships, mostly because of that scheduling issue you just mentioned, right? I wanted to see a friend or chat, and they asked, "When can you meet?" I replied: "Well, anytime, I have nothing to do anyway, no business, you know?" You know, and it was just transformative, right?

Because it meant that these meetings and these relationships were actually being built, and these connections were actually happening. Yes. There are many things that we call important, we know they are important, but we don't find time for them . I briefly talked about this dynamic between the urgent and the important. So I challenge you to think: What important relationships have you neglected? What are the important things you want to do in your life? Analyze: “ How old am I? How many years have I been working?

How many times have I dared to do any of this ? And I guess the answer is: very, very rarely. So figure out, okay, you need to make time for this, and relationships are one of those tasks. So is there any advice on how to choose what to do? Because I think, especially if you're going on a creative sabbatical for recovery, if you're feeling burned out and thinking, "Now is the time to find your passion," it can be a little draining. But you said we shouldn't chase passion.

We should focus on the little things. How does it work? Yes. Frankly, I borrowed it from Elizabeth Gilbert. She said that pursuing passion is stressful. What if you don't know what your passion is? What to do if your passion doesn't bring you satisfaction? Instead, it's better to think about what sparks your curiosity. For example, if you've always wanted to become a master potter and spend all your time looking for a mentor, it can be very disappointing when it turns out that pottery isn't for you. Um, instead of saying, for example, "Do you know what it's like to travel to this part of the world?" or for me: "What's it like to install cabinets even though I have no idea what I'm doing?" and that was fine.

It seems like this is a return to that kind of playful approach—you don't have to spend your vacation perfectly to get the most out of it. Yes. And I think this is going to sound corny, but mistakes are part of the process, right? One participant in our study said, “I really want to learn how to ski in the mountains.” So he moved to British Columbia for a few months, took classes, got certified, and then eventually started tracking: " How many vertical feet did I climb in a day?" He had a spreadsheet and he realized, "Oh, I guess the problem is me." He said that my approach to things is the problem, not the work itself.

So even if you change jobs, do you want to work on yourself or just accept yourself as you are and say, "Okay, I want to take on another thing that excites me, with the same energy and enthusiasm"? And while people are thinking about vacations now, in the middle of 2025, as we have this conversation, an interesting question arises: not just about how to take a vacation, but whether to take one at all when the world seems to be literally on fire? What is the advice in this case?

I guess this brings us back to the topic of burnout and self- care, right? For example: put the oxygen mask on yourself first, then on the children. You need an outside perspective on what's really going on, what's important to you, and get the resources to try to change course, right? So I think this is an opportunity to take a step back, and a great time when you're not feeling your best to ask yourself, "Who do I want to be in the next stage of my life, and what skills or direction do I need to get there?" OK.

I see that time is running out, so it's time for us to move on to closing thoughts. So, your final thoughts on why we need such investments in our lives and careers and why we should take vacations more seriously. I mean going back to insurance from regret. I would just think seriously about what you would like to see as part of your life story, and really document it by writing it down in a journal, and then think about when you can actually make it happen. I think we often live by inertia.

Well , such is life. I'm looking two weeks ahead, right? But it's worth taking a step back and asking yourself: what is important to me that I might not have time to do? The statistics I found were pretty strange: if you're 40 years old, like me, and you're a man—I say "man" because our statistics are worse. Um, your chances of living to retirement age are five out of six. So your chances of not surviving are one in six. If you are a couple of 50-year-olds, you have less than a 50% chance that both partners will live to retire and be physically and mentally able to travel.

That's right. Yes, I'm a great conversationalist at dinner parties. Yes. So this "wait until retirement," this wish list—nothing is guaranteed. I hope the pandemic has made us realize that life is precious, but waiting until retirement is not the best strategy. Both what you desire and the realization that you may not make it will hopefully motivate you to take action in 2031. It's 2031, who's putting that on their Google calendar yet, huh? Thank you for joining us at Happiness Lab Live at South by Southwest, thank you very much.

Go deeper

• All The Happiness Lab episode guides