The Blueprint for Mastering Every Conversation (This is How to Communicate with Confidence!)

Arguments are not something to win. The Arguments are not something to win. The person in front of you isn't fighting person in front of you isn't fighting person in front of you isn't fighting you. They are fighting to feel you. They are fighting to feel you. They are fighting to feel understood by you. understood by you. understood by you. >> How do we communicate with someone who >> How do we communicate with someone who >> How do we communicate with someone who doesn't want to communicate with us? doesn't want to communicate with us? doesn't want to communicate with us? >> The people who will use silence as a >> The people who will use silence as a >> The people who will use silence as a punishment. That to me is the number one punishment. That to me is the number one punishment. That to me is the number one sign of low emotional intelligence. >> Hey everyone, welcome back to OnPurpose, >> Hey everyone, welcome back to OnPurpose, the place you come to become happier, the place you come to become happier, the place you come to become happier, healthier, and more healed. Today's healthier, and more healed. Today's healthier, and more healed. Today's guest is someone that I've been looking guest is someone that I've been looking guest is someone that I've been looking forward to having in the seat. Ever forward to having in the seat. Ever forward to having in the seat. Ever since I came across his content on since I came across his content on since I came across his content on social media, I knew I had to have a social media, I knew I had to have a social media, I knew I had to have a conversation with him. Today's guest is conversation with him. Today's guest is conversation with him. Today's guest is Jefferson Fischer, a trial lawyer turned Jefferson Fischer, a trial lawyer turned Jefferson Fischer, a trial lawyer turned communication expert whose simple, communication expert whose simple, communication expert whose simple, practical tools have helped millions practical tools have helped millions practical tools have helped millions handle conflict with more calm and handle conflict with more calm and handle conflict with more calm and clarity. Jefferson is known for breaking clarity. Jefferson is known for breaking clarity. Jefferson is known for breaking down the exact words to use in real life down the exact words to use in real life down the exact words to use in real life moments when emotions run high. His moments when emotions run high. His moments when emotions run high. His book, The Next Conversation: Argue Less, book, The Next Conversation: Argue Less, book, The Next Conversation: Argue Less, Talk More, is already changing the way Talk More, is already changing the way Talk More, is already changing the way people navigate arguments, boundaries, people navigate arguments, boundaries, people navigate arguments, boundaries, and difficult conversations. I'm excited and difficult conversations. I'm excited and difficult conversations. I'm excited to welcome to OnPurpose, Jefferson to welcome to OnPurpose, Jefferson to welcome to OnPurpose, Jefferson Fischer. Jefferson, it's great to have Fischer. Jefferson, it's great to have Fischer. Jefferson, it's great to have you here. you here. you here. >> Jay, thanks for having me. >> Jay, thanks for having me. >> Jay, thanks for having me. >> Yeah, I mean it. I really, you know, >> Yeah, I mean it. I really, you know, >> Yeah, I mean it. I really, you know, when I first came across your content on when I first came across your content on when I first came across your content on Instagram, I think it was, I just Instagram, I think it was, I just Instagram, I think it was, I just thought it was so clear. It was so thought it was so clear. It was so thought it was so clear. It was so concise. And I feel communication is one concise. And I feel communication is one concise. And I feel communication is one of these underrated skills that we all of these underrated skills that we all of these underrated skills that we all use all the time. We all need it in use all the time. We all need it in use all the time. We all need it in every part of our lives, yet no one every part of our lives, yet no one every part of our lives, yet no one taught us how to do it at school or or taught us how to do it at school or or taught us how to do it at school or or anywhere. anywhere. anywhere. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I wanted to ask you, what has >> And I wanted to ask you, what has >> And I wanted to ask you, what has communication unlocked for you in your communication unlocked for you in your communication unlocked for you in your life and for the people that you help in life and for the people that you help in life and for the people that you help in a way that nothing else could? H it's a way that nothing else could? H it's a way that nothing else could? H it's unlocked a life of peace for me. You unlocked a life of peace for me. You unlocked a life of peace for me. You know, a lot of people say you you sound know, a lot of people say you you sound know, a lot of people say you you sound very calm. Well, it's because I've been very calm. Well, it's because I've been very calm. Well, it's because I've been through a lot of hard and that means a through a lot of hard and that means a through a lot of hard and that means a lot of hard communication, a lot of hard lot of hard communication, a lot of hard lot of hard communication, a lot of hard conversations. The the the greater conversations. The the the greater conversations. The the the greater tolerance I have for difficult tolerance I have for difficult tolerance I have for difficult conversations, the greater relationships conversations, the greater relationships conversations, the greater relationships I'm going to have in my life. For me, I'm going to have in my life. For me, I'm going to have in my life. For me, communication has helped me be a better communication has helped me be a better communication has helped me be a better husband, a better father, a better husband, a better father, a better husband, a better father, a better friend in ways that only communication friend in ways that only communication friend in ways that only communication can do. And you're right, we we go can do. And you're right, we we go can do. And you're right, we we go through our whole season of growing up, through our whole season of growing up, through our whole season of growing up, going to high school, maybe going to going to high school, maybe going to going to high school, maybe going to college, and all of a sudden you get college, and all of a sudden you get college, and all of a sudden you get married and then you look at the person married and then you look at the person married and then you look at the person next to you, you go, "Oh, I have to I next to you, you go, "Oh, I have to I next to you, you go, "Oh, I have to I have to talk to you. I have to talk at have to talk to you. I have to talk at have to talk to you. I have to talk at work. I have to manage people. How do I work. I have to manage people. How do I work. I have to manage people. How do I how do I do that?" That's a skill of how do I do that?" That's a skill of how do I do that?" That's a skill of communication that is it is learned. It communication that is it is learned. It communication that is it is learned. It is not just gifted. Well, you just said is not just gifted. Well, you just said is not just gifted. Well, you just said that you are a good communicator because that you are a good communicator because that you are a good communicator because you've had a lot of tough conversations you've had a lot of tough conversations you've had a lot of tough conversations and hard conversations. I think most of and hard conversations. I think most of and hard conversations. I think most of us, we avoid tough and hard us, we avoid tough and hard us, we avoid tough and hard conversations. We don't even want to go conversations. We don't even want to go conversations. We don't even want to go there there there >> and we don't want to get into a tough >> and we don't want to get into a tough >> and we don't want to get into a tough discussion with our partner or we don't discussion with our partner or we don't discussion with our partner or we don't want to get into a difficult discussion want to get into a difficult discussion want to get into a difficult discussion with our boss or we're trying our best with our boss or we're trying our best with our boss or we're trying our best to just navigate away from and we think to just navigate away from and we think to just navigate away from and we think that's what good communication is. Why that's what good communication is. Why that's what good communication is. Why would you encourage people to meet would you encourage people to meet would you encourage people to meet difficult and tough conversations difficult and tough conversations difficult and tough conversations head-on? head-on? head-on? >> If you don't, the bill always comes due. >> If you don't, the bill always comes due. >> If you don't, the bill always comes due. The bill always comes due. You're going The bill always comes due. You're going The bill always comes due. You're going to have that difficult conversation at to have that difficult conversation at to have that difficult conversation at the very end when you're at your wits the very end when you're at your wits the very end when you're at your wits end or you may never have it at all end or you may never have it at all end or you may never have it at all because there's going to be something in because there's going to be something in because there's going to be something in your life that happened that they're not your life that happened that they're not your life that happened that they're not going to be here anymore. And what going to be here anymore. And what going to be here anymore. And what should have been said, that opportunity should have been said, that opportunity should have been said, that opportunity was was lost. We avoid the difficult was was lost. We avoid the difficult was was lost. We avoid the difficult because we avoid the the angst that we because we avoid the the angst that we because we avoid the the angst that we feel. But yet, when we choose to have feel. But yet, when we choose to have feel. But yet, when we choose to have the difficult conversation and we get on the difficult conversation and we get on the difficult conversation and we get on the other end of it and realize, "Oh, the other end of it and realize, "Oh, the other end of it and realize, "Oh, wait. I life didn't fall apart. Oh, wait. I life didn't fall apart. Oh, wait. I life didn't fall apart. Oh, wait. I'm still here. Oh, wait. They wait. I'm still here. Oh, wait. They wait. I'm still here. Oh, wait. They chose to accept me. Wait, they didn't chose to accept me. Wait, they didn't chose to accept me. Wait, they didn't run away." It's it's a feeling that that run away." It's it's a feeling that that run away." It's it's a feeling that that can't be replaced. When you realize you can't be replaced. When you realize you can't be replaced. When you realize you can be more vulnerable with this person, can be more vulnerable with this person, can be more vulnerable with this person, you can go deeper with this person. you can go deeper with this person. you can go deeper with this person. Think of the people in your life that Think of the people in your life that Think of the people in your life that you were the closest with. They're the you were the closest with. They're the you were the closest with. They're the people who've seen you're ugly. you people who've seen you're ugly. you people who've seen you're ugly. you know, the hard stuff, the messy stuff. know, the hard stuff, the messy stuff. know, the hard stuff, the messy stuff. And when you can have that kind of And when you can have that kind of And when you can have that kind of capacity for each other and capacity for each other and capacity for each other and communication and conversation, you're communication and conversation, you're communication and conversation, you're only going to to grow. Well, I think only going to to grow. Well, I think only going to to grow. Well, I think that's the thing, right? Like we the that's the thing, right? Like we the that's the thing, right? Like we the reason we're scared of having a tough reason we're scared of having a tough reason we're scared of having a tough conversation is because we're scared of conversation is because we're scared of conversation is because we're scared of the outcome. And so, we've already the outcome. And so, we've already the outcome. And so, we've already predicted that I don't want to have that predicted that I don't want to have that predicted that I don't want to have that conversation because they're going to conversation because they're going to conversation because they're going to break up with me. break up with me. break up with me. >> I don't want to have that conversation >> I don't want to have that conversation >> I don't want to have that conversation because then they're going to know I'm because then they're going to know I'm because then they're going to know I'm weak. I don't want to have that weak. I don't want to have that weak. I don't want to have that conversation because I might get fired conversation because I might get fired conversation because I might get fired or I might get looked over for that or I might get looked over for that or I might get looked over for that promotion. How do we approach tough promotion. How do we approach tough promotion. How do we approach tough conversations conversations conversations without an inherent belief of it being a without an inherent belief of it being a without an inherent belief of it being a negative result? negative result? negative result? >> It's the understanding that it's not my >> It's the understanding that it's not my >> It's the understanding that it's not my job to feel somebody else's feelings for job to feel somebody else's feelings for job to feel somebody else's feelings for them. That's what you do when you're them. That's what you do when you're them. That's what you do when you're afraid to disappoint someone. You're afraid to disappoint someone. You're afraid to disappoint someone. You're afraid to say the hard thing, the the afraid to say the hard thing, the the afraid to say the hard thing, the the right thing. You'd rather be nice. You'd right thing. You'd rather be nice. You'd right thing. You'd rather be nice. You'd rather say the the thing that sounds rather say the the thing that sounds rather say the the thing that sounds good. Those kind of things always have a good. Those kind of things always have a good. Those kind of things always have a bitter taste because you realize, I'm bitter taste because you realize, I'm bitter taste because you realize, I'm not being real. I'm not being authentic. not being real. I'm not being authentic. not being real. I'm not being authentic. And before you know it, you've just been And before you know it, you've just been And before you know it, you've just been people pleasing. Before you know it, you people pleasing. Before you know it, you people pleasing. Before you know it, you feel less than yourself. Before you know feel less than yourself. Before you know feel less than yourself. Before you know it, you feel lost. And you really don't it, you feel lost. And you really don't it, you feel lost. And you really don't know who you are. And now you're in your know who you are. And now you're in your know who you are. And now you're in your mid-40s and you have a crisis. You go, mid-40s and you have a crisis. You go, mid-40s and you have a crisis. You go, "What is my purpose on life here?" "What is my purpose on life here?" "What is my purpose on life here?" Because I've been living it to serve Because I've been living it to serve Because I've been living it to serve everybody else's needs, not for what's everybody else's needs, not for what's everybody else's needs, not for what's true and authentic in my life. true and authentic in my life. true and authentic in my life. >> I'm trying to think of someone I was >> I'm trying to think of someone I was >> I'm trying to think of someone I was speaking to this week. I was I was speaking to this week. I was I was speaking to this week. I was I was speaking to someone. They said speaking to someone. They said speaking to someone. They said they're going through a tough romantic they're going through a tough romantic they're going through a tough romantic situation. situation. situation. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Been dating someone >> Been dating someone >> Been dating someone and they're scared that if they share and they're scared that if they share and they're scared that if they share how they feel, they may push the other how they feel, they may push the other how they feel, they may push the other person away. Talk to me about that. person away. Talk to me about that. person away. Talk to me about that. >> Number one, it's a valid fear. I'm not >> Number one, it's a valid fear. I'm not >> Number one, it's a valid fear. I'm not going to say that that fear isn't valid. going to say that that fear isn't valid. going to say that that fear isn't valid. I think anybody here that go, "Well, I think anybody here that go, "Well, I think anybody here that go, "Well, that's certainly understandable. What if that's certainly understandable. What if that's certainly understandable. What if they don't?" It's always the what if they don't?" It's always the what if they don't?" It's always the what if they do? Well, okay. Let's let's assume they do? Well, okay. Let's let's assume they do? Well, okay. Let's let's assume that they do. What happens next? If they that they do. What happens next? If they that they do. What happens next? If they do, you push them away, what happens? do, you push them away, what happens? do, you push them away, what happens? It's it's seeing that your life isn't It's it's seeing that your life isn't It's it's seeing that your life isn't going to fall apart. Now, if I come into going to fall apart. Now, if I come into going to fall apart. Now, if I come into the conversation and I am not trying to the conversation and I am not trying to the conversation and I am not trying to sugarcoat it, and if I'm not trying to sugarcoat it, and if I'm not trying to sugarcoat it, and if I'm not trying to make it to where I'm only saying things make it to where I'm only saying things make it to where I'm only saying things to plate you to to make you feel good to plate you to to make you feel good to plate you to to make you feel good and not being genuine, I've already set and not being genuine, I've already set and not being genuine, I've already set up the conversation and I've set up the up the conversation and I've set up the up the conversation and I've set up the relationship on relationship on relationship on fake. I'm just giving you a mask. I'm fake. I'm just giving you a mask. I'm fake. I'm just giving you a mask. I'm giving you a character of what I can giving you a character of what I can giving you a character of what I can tell is going to appease you. I'm going tell is going to appease you. I'm going tell is going to appease you. I'm going to be the the hero. I'm going to be the to be the the hero. I'm going to be the to be the the hero. I'm going to be the fixer. I'm going to be the happy one. fixer. I'm going to be the happy one. fixer. I'm going to be the happy one. I'm going to be the one who's always I'm going to be the one who's always I'm going to be the one who's always bubbly and can never be sad. And you you bubbly and can never be sad. And you you bubbly and can never be sad. And you you give them a character when you choose give them a character when you choose give them a character when you choose not to be authentic in the conversation. not to be authentic in the conversation. not to be authentic in the conversation. So the thought of, you know, if I do So the thought of, you know, if I do So the thought of, you know, if I do this, I'm going to push them away. And this, I'm going to push them away. And this, I'm going to push them away. And if you do, what happens? That's really if you do, what happens? That's really if you do, what happens? That's really what the fear is. Am I enough by myself? what the fear is. Am I enough by myself? what the fear is. Am I enough by myself? That's that's the underlying fear. And That's that's the underlying fear. And That's that's the underlying fear. And when you realize I can be enough without when you realize I can be enough without when you realize I can be enough without them, all those fears go away. them, all those fears go away. them, all those fears go away. >> Yeah. And that's what we're all working >> Yeah. And that's what we're all working >> Yeah. And that's what we're all working towards, I feel, is towards, I feel, is towards, I feel, is >> Yeah. Am I enough? >> Yeah. Am I enough? >> Yeah. Am I enough? >> Am I enough? And it's so interesting. >> Am I enough? And it's so interesting. >> Am I enough? And it's so interesting. That's exact. I was talking to that That's exact. I was talking to that That's exact. I was talking to that person and I said, person and I said, person and I said, >> you know, after you have that >> you know, after you have that >> you know, after you have that conversation or whether you choose not conversation or whether you choose not conversation or whether you choose not to, I think self- loveve needs to be to, I think self- loveve needs to be to, I think self- loveve needs to be worked on either way because that's worked on either way because that's worked on either way because that's right. right. right. >> That that's at the root of it. What what >> That that's at the root of it. What what >> That that's at the root of it. What what do you feel? You've been doing this for do you feel? You've been doing this for do you feel? You've been doing this for some time. You come from the legal some time. You come from the legal some time. You come from the legal world. M what's the number one world. M what's the number one world. M what's the number one communication mistake you see people communication mistake you see people communication mistake you see people making today making today making today >> the one that I make too is that you >> the one that I make too is that you >> the one that I make too is that you think that what is said is exactly think that what is said is exactly think that what is said is exactly what's heard especially in in what's heard especially in in what's heard especially in in relationships how many times in a relationships how many times in a relationships how many times in a relationship relationship relationship >> have they kind of repeated back what you >> have they kind of repeated back what you >> have they kind of repeated back what you said well you said that's not what I said well you said that's not what I said well you said that's not what I said I didn't sound like that that's not said I didn't sound like that that's not said I didn't sound like that that's not how I said it and you start arguing they how I said it and you start arguing they how I said it and you start arguing they go yeah you did yeah you did and they go go yeah you did yeah you did and they go go yeah you did yeah you did and they go I wish I had this recorded you know I I wish I had this recorded you know I I wish I had this recorded you know I wish this I had this on camera that you wish this I had this on camera that you wish this I had this on camera that you could have seen back how you just spoke could have seen back how you just spoke could have seen back how you just spoke to me. And instead, we just we start to me. And instead, we just we start to me. And instead, we just we start fighting over how I said it. fighting over how I said it. fighting over how I said it. >> The better way to go is to say, "What >> The better way to go is to say, "What >> The better way to go is to say, "What did you hear? What did what did you did you hear? What did what did you did you hear? What did what did you hear?" Oh, okay. That's that's not at hear?" Oh, okay. That's that's not at hear?" Oh, okay. That's that's not at all what I meant. Can I can I have a let all what I meant. Can I can I have a let all what I meant. Can I can I have a let me let me redo that. That's not at all me let me redo that. That's not at all me let me redo that. That's not at all what I meant. Instead, we just we split what I meant. Instead, we just we split what I meant. Instead, we just we split the conversation into something that has the conversation into something that has the conversation into something that has nothing to do with what you the original nothing to do with what you the original nothing to do with what you the original source. So the number one communication source. So the number one communication source. So the number one communication that fault that I see is assuming that that fault that I see is assuming that that fault that I see is assuming that what is said is exactly what is heard. what is said is exactly what is heard. what is said is exactly what is heard. When you ask the question, what did you When you ask the question, what did you When you ask the question, what did you hear? Whether it's even in business or hear? Whether it's even in business or hear? Whether it's even in business or in relationships, you always get a in relationships, you always get a in relationships, you always get a different perspective that makes the different perspective that makes the different perspective that makes the connection that much stronger. connection that much stronger. connection that much stronger. >> That is such a great answer. It's such a >> That is such a great answer. It's such a >> That is such a great answer. It's such a great answer. I did that. Me and my wife great answer. I did that. Me and my wife great answer. I did that. Me and my wife did that exact not we didn't do the did that exact not we didn't do the did that exact not we didn't do the exercise as consciously, but we went exercise as consciously, but we went exercise as consciously, but we went through that same exact thing recently. through that same exact thing recently. through that same exact thing recently. We were working out in the gym together. We were working out in the gym together. We were working out in the gym together. We're having a conversation. We heard We're having a conversation. We heard We're having a conversation. We heard each other totally differently, each other totally differently, each other totally differently, misjudged tones. I was like being loud misjudged tones. I was like being loud misjudged tones. I was like being loud because there was music on. She took because there was music on. She took because there was music on. She took that as like I was a bit like, you know, that as like I was a bit like, you know, that as like I was a bit like, you know, uh a bit triggered or whatever it was. uh a bit triggered or whatever it was. uh a bit triggered or whatever it was. And then we sat down and we talked about And then we sat down and we talked about And then we sat down and we talked about it. And that's exactly the conversation it. And that's exactly the conversation it. And that's exactly the conversation we had where I was like, I did not sound we had where I was like, I did not sound we had where I was like, I did not sound like that. And she was like, "Yeah, you like that. And she was like, "Yeah, you like that. And she was like, "Yeah, you did." Like, you know, and you know, and did." Like, you know, and you know, and did." Like, you know, and you know, and then you and then you realize that then you and then you realize that then you and then you realize that you're so right. You end up splitting you're so right. You end up splitting you're so right. You end up splitting the conversation and you end up arguing the conversation and you end up arguing the conversation and you end up arguing about something that you weren't even about something that you weren't even about something that you weren't even arguing about. arguing about. arguing about. >> Yes. And that's the worst part because >> Yes. And that's the worst part because >> Yes. And that's the worst part because you end up creating something that is you end up creating something that is you end up creating something that is now an issue that wasn't even an issue now an issue that wasn't even an issue now an issue that wasn't even an issue in the first place. in the first place. in the first place. >> Absolutely. And it ends up that >> Absolutely. And it ends up that >> Absolutely. And it ends up that you will prove yourself wrong. I mean, you will prove yourself wrong. I mean, you will prove yourself wrong. I mean, when you say, "No, this is exactly how I when you say, "No, this is exactly how I when you say, "No, this is exactly how I said it." We don't even really know what said it." We don't even really know what said it." We don't even really know what our faith looks like, you know, when our faith looks like, you know, when our faith looks like, you know, when we're talking. Unless you're in a mirror we're talking. Unless you're in a mirror we're talking. Unless you're in a mirror the whole time, you you don't know. And the whole time, you you don't know. And the whole time, you you don't know. And so we we are terrible judges of our so we we are terrible judges of our so we we are terrible judges of our subjective expressions. subjective expressions. subjective expressions. >> They say, "No, I that's not how I said >> They say, "No, I that's not how I said >> They say, "No, I that's not how I said it. No, I that's not what I that's not it. No, I that's not what I that's not it. No, I that's not what I that's not how I said. Yes, you did. Yeah. And so how I said. Yes, you did. Yeah. And so how I said. Yes, you did. Yeah. And so that that is to me it's if you want to that that is to me it's if you want to that that is to me it's if you want to know somebody that has strong emotional know somebody that has strong emotional know somebody that has strong emotional intelligence, it's how quick they get to intelligence, it's how quick they get to intelligence, it's how quick they get to asking for a reset. asking for a reset. asking for a reset. >> How quick they get to saying that's not >> How quick they get to saying that's not >> How quick they get to saying that's not my intention. My intention was this. Ah, my intention. My intention was this. Ah, my intention. My intention was this. Ah, okay. I can see that. The quicker that okay. I can see that. The quicker that okay. I can see that. The quicker that you get to that, that's somebody who you get to that, that's somebody who you get to that, that's somebody who says, "I'm okay being wrong." says, "I'm okay being wrong." says, "I'm okay being wrong." >> What does it take for someone who always >> What does it take for someone who always >> What does it take for someone who always thinks they're right to open up to the thinks they're right to open up to the thinks they're right to open up to the idea that they might be wrong? idea that they might be wrong? idea that they might be wrong? >> The person in front of you isn't >> The person in front of you isn't >> The person in front of you isn't fighting you. They're fighting to be fighting you. They're fighting to be fighting you. They're fighting to be understood by you. They're fighting to understood by you. They're fighting to understood by you. They're fighting to feel understood by you. When somebody's feel understood by you. When somebody's feel understood by you. When somebody's clammed up and you have to say, "You clammed up and you have to say, "You clammed up and you have to say, "You need to change your opinion. You need to need to change your opinion. You need to need to change your opinion. You need to change your opinion. You're right. I'm change your opinion. You're right. I'm change your opinion. You're right. I'm wrong." That's not going to happen. You wrong." That's not going to happen. You wrong." That's not going to happen. You can't just wish for that. Instead, if I can't just wish for that. Instead, if I can't just wish for that. Instead, if I were to say to you, listen, I'm not here were to say to you, listen, I'm not here were to say to you, listen, I'm not here to change your mind, Jay. This is what I to change your mind, Jay. This is what I to change your mind, Jay. This is what I believe. You hear how just me saying believe. You hear how just me saying believe. You hear how just me saying that all of a sudden opens up that that all of a sudden opens up that that all of a sudden opens up that curiosity of, well, maybe I do want to curiosity of, well, maybe I do want to curiosity of, well, maybe I do want to change my mind. change my mind. change my mind. >> I don't really know. But if I were to >> I don't really know. But if I were to >> I don't really know. But if I were to say, how can you possibly think that you say, how can you possibly think that you say, how can you possibly think that you you really think that that person is the you really think that that person is the you really think that that person is the person you should be voting for? You person you should be voting for? You person you should be voting for? You think that? And as soon as I get into think that? And as soon as I get into think that? And as soon as I get into criticism, the more I tell you that criticism, the more I tell you that criticism, the more I tell you that you're wrong, the more convinced you'll you're wrong, the more convinced you'll you're wrong, the more convinced you'll be that you're right. Because most be that you're right. Because most be that you're right. Because most likely, if I want you to change your likely, if I want you to change your likely, if I want you to change your mind and I say that you're wrong about mind and I say that you're wrong about mind and I say that you're wrong about something, Jay, I'm not just saying something, Jay, I'm not just saying something, Jay, I'm not just saying you're wrong. I'm saying that your you're wrong. I'm saying that your you're wrong. I'm saying that your wife's wrong, your dad's wrong, your wife's wrong, your dad's wrong, your wife's wrong, your dad's wrong, your parents are wrong, your grandmother is parents are wrong, your grandmother is parents are wrong, your grandmother is wrong. that thing that you went to when wrong. that thing that you went to when wrong. that thing that you went to when you were a kid that was a big you were a kid that was a big you were a kid that was a big crystallizing moment in your life that crystallizing moment in your life that crystallizing moment in your life that that set your belief system is all wrong that set your belief system is all wrong that set your belief system is all wrong and it's become part of your identity. and it's become part of your identity. and it's become part of your identity. And so instead of me fighting I think And so instead of me fighting I think And so instead of me fighting I think I'm fighting an opinion. I'm not. I'm I'm fighting an opinion. I'm not. I'm I'm fighting an opinion. I'm not. I'm fighting now your identity. And people fighting now your identity. And people fighting now your identity. And people will go to the ends of the earth. They will go to the ends of the earth. They will go to the ends of the earth. They will close off everything. They will box will close off everything. They will box will close off everything. They will box their ears to prevent having to change their ears to prevent having to change their ears to prevent having to change one second of their identity. Why? one second of their identity. Why? one second of their identity. Why? Because that change feels extremely Because that change feels extremely Because that change feels extremely scary. That's why evidence doesn't work. scary. That's why evidence doesn't work. scary. That's why evidence doesn't work. When you show people statistics on When you show people statistics on When you show people statistics on things, how can you possibly believe things, how can you possibly believe things, how can you possibly believe this? And they go, I just no, it doesn't this? And they go, I just no, it doesn't this? And they go, I just no, it doesn't matter. It they will justify it. They matter. It they will justify it. They matter. It they will justify it. They will flip it. They will find find ways will flip it. They will find find ways will flip it. They will find find ways to to take what supports them or reject to to take what supports them or reject to to take what supports them or reject anything that that doesn't. It's because anything that that doesn't. It's because anything that that doesn't. It's because it's now part of their identity. So, if it's now part of their identity. So, if it's now part of their identity. So, if you want to change somebody's mind, you want to change somebody's mind, you want to change somebody's mind, number one, you have to validate them. number one, you have to validate them. number one, you have to validate them. Two, you can't argue against the Two, you can't argue against the Two, you can't argue against the identity. You have to argue against the identity. You have to argue against the identity. You have to argue against the value. You have to find the value. Speak value. You have to find the value. Speak value. You have to find the value. Speak to the value. And three, understand that to the value. And three, understand that to the value. And three, understand that one conversation is generally not one conversation is generally not one conversation is generally not enough. If you want somebody to change enough. If you want somebody to change enough. If you want somebody to change their mind, it takes years. It takes their mind, it takes years. It takes their mind, it takes years. It takes months. And the bigger the belief, the months. And the bigger the belief, the months. And the bigger the belief, the more time it's going to take. more time it's going to take. more time it's going to take. >> Yeah, I I I couldn't agree more. I think >> Yeah, I I I couldn't agree more. I think >> Yeah, I I I couldn't agree more. I think I'm sure you hear this a lot as well. I I'm sure you hear this a lot as well. I I'm sure you hear this a lot as well. I hear a lot of people, especially people hear a lot of people, especially people hear a lot of people, especially people who would read our books, listen to our who would read our books, listen to our who would read our books, listen to our conversations, follow us on social conversations, follow us on social conversations, follow us on social media. A lot of people want to have media. A lot of people want to have media. A lot of people want to have conversations with their partners or conversations with their partners or conversations with their partners or their parents or a sibling, their parents or a sibling, their parents or a sibling, >> but they don't find that that person >> but they don't find that that person >> but they don't find that that person wants to communicate about that topic or wants to communicate about that topic or wants to communicate about that topic or theme or subject. theme or subject. theme or subject. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, how do we communicate with someone >> So, how do we communicate with someone >> So, how do we communicate with someone who doesn't want to communicate with us? who doesn't want to communicate with us? who doesn't want to communicate with us? Because often that could be our partner, Because often that could be our partner, Because often that could be our partner, our parent, or someone that we love our parent, or someone that we love our parent, or someone that we love deeply. deeply. deeply. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And we want to talk to them about >> And we want to talk to them about >> And we want to talk to them about something meaningful, but they don't something meaningful, but they don't something meaningful, but they don't really even want to engage. Is it really even want to engage. Is it really even want to engage. Is it possible? It's possible. possible? It's possible. possible? It's possible. I get a lot of questions of people who I get a lot of questions of people who I get a lot of questions of people who are estranged from usually adult are estranged from usually adult are estranged from usually adult children. There's, you know, their children. There's, you know, their children. There's, you know, their 30year-old son doesn't want to talk to 30year-old son doesn't want to talk to 30year-old son doesn't want to talk to his mom or a a daughter who doesn't want his mom or a a daughter who doesn't want his mom or a a daughter who doesn't want to talk to her dad and they haven't to talk to her dad and they haven't to talk to her dad and they haven't spoken in 3 years. And every time I have spoken in 3 years. And every time I have spoken in 3 years. And every time I have that kind of conversation, it it breaks that kind of conversation, it it breaks that kind of conversation, it it breaks my heart because you can tell and look my heart because you can tell and look my heart because you can tell and look at this parent, they want to have a at this parent, they want to have a at this parent, they want to have a conversation with their child. And you conversation with their child. And you conversation with their child. And you know deep down so does that that child know deep down so does that that child know deep down so does that that child they need that relationship. How do you they need that relationship. How do you they need that relationship. How do you how do you crack that code? What I have how do you crack that code? What I have how do you crack that code? What I have found most successful and what I teach found most successful and what I teach found most successful and what I teach them is I begin with saying I know I'm them is I begin with saying I know I'm them is I begin with saying I know I'm not and I'm open. And it sounds like not and I'm open. And it sounds like not and I'm open. And it sounds like this. I know there's distance between this. I know there's distance between this. I know there's distance between us. I know things aren't how we both us. I know things aren't how we both us. I know things aren't how we both want them to be. I know I've messed up. want them to be. I know I've messed up. want them to be. I know I've messed up. Whatever that is. I you you're saying Whatever that is. I you you're saying Whatever that is. I you you're saying what is a given two is I'm not I'm not what is a given two is I'm not I'm not what is a given two is I'm not I'm not asking to change your mind. I'm not asking to change your mind. I'm not asking to change your mind. I'm not asking for an apology. I'm not asking asking for an apology. I'm not asking asking for an apology. I'm not asking for whatever it is what they think for whatever it is what they think for whatever it is what they think that's what you're after. And three is that's what you're after. And three is that's what you're after. And three is I'm open. I'm open to a conversation. I'm open. I'm open to a conversation. I'm open. I'm open to a conversation. I'm open and I'm open I'm open to I'm open and I'm open I'm open to I'm open and I'm open I'm open to listening. I'm open in I'm open to listening. I'm open in I'm open to listening. I'm open in I'm open to understanding. Whenever you can just understanding. Whenever you can just understanding. Whenever you can just crack the door open of saying the crack the door open of saying the crack the door open of saying the conversation is here. And sometimes conversation is here. And sometimes conversation is here. And sometimes that's not enough. They're not going to that's not enough. They're not going to that's not enough. They're not going to do it. And in that case, what I like to do it. And in that case, what I like to do it. And in that case, what I like to say is then you have to live out the say is then you have to live out the say is then you have to live out the conversation and understand that if you conversation and understand that if you conversation and understand that if you can't be a bridge, be a lighthouse. You can't be a bridge, be a lighthouse. You can't be a bridge, be a lighthouse. You know, if if they don't want to come know, if if they don't want to come know, if if they don't want to come across to me and they've burned the across to me and they've burned the across to me and they've burned the bridge, well, then they're at least bridge, well, then they're at least bridge, well, then they're at least going to know where I am and they're going to know where I am and they're going to know where I am and they're going to know what I stand for and going to know what I stand for and going to know what I stand for and they're going to see the light that I they're going to see the light that I they're going to see the light that I I'm going to try to bring even if they I'm going to try to bring even if they I'm going to try to bring even if they don't want to talk. don't want to talk. don't want to talk. >> I know I'm not I'm open. >> I know I'm not I'm open. >> I know I'm not I'm open. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I really like that. >> I really like that. >> I really like that. >> I I really really like that. Especially >> I I really really like that. Especially >> I I really really like that. Especially the I'm not. the I'm not. the I'm not. >> Right. Exactly. I feel like that's such >> Right. Exactly. I feel like that's such >> Right. Exactly. I feel like that's such an important one because I feel like an important one because I feel like an important one because I feel like half the time it's like half the time it's like half the time it's like I I know we're not where we want to be, I I know we're not where we want to be, I I know we're not where we want to be, but I'd love it if you but I'd love it if you but I'd love it if you >> you got it. Yeah. Exactly. They're >> you got it. Yeah. Exactly. They're >> you got it. Yeah. Exactly. They're waiting for the, you know, I know waiting for the, you know, I know waiting for the, you know, I know there's distance, but you just, you there's distance, but you just, you there's distance, but you just, you know, and they're expecting who's going know, and they're expecting who's going know, and they're expecting who's going to apologize first. to apologize first. to apologize first. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I think that that for relationships and >> I think that that for relationships and >> I think that that for relationships and family, you know, the hard stuff, it family, you know, the hard stuff, it family, you know, the hard stuff, it becomes this petty fight over, well, I'm becomes this petty fight over, well, I'm becomes this petty fight over, well, I'm not doing anything till they apologize. not doing anything till they apologize. not doing anything till they apologize. And well, okay, you do it at your own And well, okay, you do it at your own And well, okay, you do it at your own peril. Then say goodbye to it. Say peril. Then say goodbye to it. Say peril. Then say goodbye to it. Say goodbye to it because they both dug in goodbye to it because they both dug in goodbye to it because they both dug in their heels and nobody's going to change their heels and nobody's going to change their heels and nobody's going to change unless somebody decides to do something unless somebody decides to do something unless somebody decides to do something different. different. different. >> And when you can just change the >> And when you can just change the >> And when you can just change the narrative by 1% and say, I'm going to go narrative by 1% and say, I'm going to go narrative by 1% and say, I'm going to go off on a ledge and do something off on a ledge and do something off on a ledge and do something different. I've seen more relationships different. I've seen more relationships different. I've seen more relationships come back together. I have seen more come back together. I have seen more come back together. I have seen more people come back and say, "Thank you so people come back and say, "Thank you so people come back and say, "Thank you so much. I we're actually going to meet up much. I we're actually going to meet up much. I we're actually going to meet up for coffee. She's coming to Christmas for coffee. She's coming to Christmas for coffee. She's coming to Christmas this year. Oh my gosh. Like that. What this year. Oh my gosh. Like that. What this year. Oh my gosh. Like that. What What is life not about if not that? What is life not about if not that? What is life not about if not that? >> I really hope everyone who's listening >> I really hope everyone who's listening >> I really hope everyone who's listening and watching, you know, tries that out. and watching, you know, tries that out. and watching, you know, tries that out. >> But you do that so well. You know, I've >> But you do that so well. You know, I've >> But you do that so well. You know, I've seen that with you'll say, "When's the seen that with you'll say, "When's the seen that with you'll say, "When's the last time you talked to somebody? last time you talked to somebody? last time you talked to somebody? >> Grab your phone. Call them. Call them >> Grab your phone. Call them. Call them >> Grab your phone. Call them. Call them now." now." now." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Call them now. Why? Why wait? Was would >> Call them now. Why? Why wait? Was would >> Call them now. Why? Why wait? Was would you have to wait to be ready? Call them you have to wait to be ready? Call them you have to wait to be ready? Call them now. And when you choose to do something now. And when you choose to do something now. And when you choose to do something different, you choose to be the first. different, you choose to be the first. different, you choose to be the first. They say, "Oh, you know, I'm tired of They say, "Oh, you know, I'm tired of They say, "Oh, you know, I'm tired of being the bigger person." Well, that's being the bigger person." Well, that's being the bigger person." Well, that's >> that's life. Then you then you do it >> that's life. Then you then you do it >> that's life. Then you then you do it with the understanding that things are with the understanding that things are with the understanding that things are not going to be different unless not going to be different unless not going to be different unless something is different. something is different. something is different. >> Yeah. Yeah. I always I always come back >> Yeah. Yeah. I always I always come back >> Yeah. Yeah. I always I always come back to what is the outcome that I want. to what is the outcome that I want. to what is the outcome that I want. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Like if the outcome I want is for this >> Like if the outcome I want is for this >> Like if the outcome I want is for this person and know how I feel then I might person and know how I feel then I might person and know how I feel then I might have to be the bigger person. I might have to be the bigger person. I might have to be the bigger person. I might have to be first. have to be first. have to be first. >> I might have to be apologetic. I might >> I might have to be apologetic. I might >> I might have to be apologetic. I might have to be more compassionate. Mhm. have to be more compassionate. Mhm. have to be more compassionate. Mhm. >> But if that serves my ultimate goal, >> But if that serves my ultimate goal, >> But if that serves my ultimate goal, which is this person knows how I feel, which is this person knows how I feel, which is this person knows how I feel, then I should be willing to become then I should be willing to become then I should be willing to become anything. anything. anything. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> But if my goal is to set a boundary and >> But if my goal is to set a boundary and >> But if my goal is to set a boundary and not let someone cross it, not let someone cross it, not let someone cross it, >> right, >> right, >> right, >> then I may actually even have to become >> then I may actually even have to become >> then I may actually even have to become more guarded. I may have to become more more guarded. I may have to become more more guarded. I may have to become more reserved. I may have to I have to become reserved. I may have to I have to become reserved. I may have to I have to become all these other things. And then you all these other things. And then you all these other things. And then you say, "Oh, but I don't want to be say, "Oh, but I don't want to be say, "Oh, but I don't want to be reserved." But it's like, but that reserved." But it's like, but that reserved." But it's like, but that serves your goal. serves your goal. serves your goal. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> And and so you've got to know what your >> And and so you've got to know what your >> And and so you've got to know what your objective is or what your what your goal objective is or what your what your goal objective is or what your what your goal is of any conversation. And I know you is of any conversation. And I know you is of any conversation. And I know you talk about how winning is never the goal talk about how winning is never the goal talk about how winning is never the goal of any argument, of any argument, of any argument, >> even though that's what we all think. >> even though that's what we all think. >> even though that's what we all think. >> Yeah. Especially being a an attorney, >> Yeah. Especially being a an attorney, >> Yeah. Especially being a an attorney, people are like, "I know what you're people are like, "I know what you're people are like, "I know what you're supposed to do." And it's that's just supposed to do." And it's that's just supposed to do." And it's that's just not the that's not the truth. It's not not the that's not the truth. It's not not the that's not the truth. It's not like it is on TV. You you will lose like it is on TV. You you will lose like it is on TV. You you will lose cases. In fact, if you haven't tried if cases. In fact, if you haven't tried if cases. In fact, if you haven't tried if you haven't lost a case, you haven't you haven't lost a case, you haven't you haven't lost a case, you haven't tried enough cases is what they say in tried enough cases is what they say in tried enough cases is what they say in the in the attorney world because I the in the attorney world because I the in the attorney world because I can't I can't choose the law that can't I can't choose the law that can't I can't choose the law that applies. I can't choose my client's applies. I can't choose my client's applies. I can't choose my client's facts. So you have to play the cards facts. So you have to play the cards facts. So you have to play the cards that that you're dealt. But how I that that you're dealt. But how I that that you're dealt. But how I advocate it is different. What I teach advocate it is different. What I teach advocate it is different. What I teach is arguments are not something to win. is arguments are not something to win. is arguments are not something to win. They're something to unravel. You find They're something to unravel. You find They're something to unravel. You find knots in conversations. In law, there's knots in conversations. In law, there's knots in conversations. In law, there's this thing called the jury instructions. this thing called the jury instructions. this thing called the jury instructions. Meaning at the very end of the trial, Meaning at the very end of the trial, Meaning at the very end of the trial, let's say you've you've had two weeks let's say you've you've had two weeks let's say you've you've had two weeks worth of evidence. You had openings, all worth of evidence. You had openings, all worth of evidence. You had openings, all all your your motions, and you're all your your motions, and you're all your your motions, and you're finally at the end and the juryy's about finally at the end and the juryy's about finally at the end and the juryy's about to go back and make a decision on to go back and make a decision on to go back and make a decision on something. And they have a document something. And they have a document something. And they have a document called the jury instructions and it's called the jury instructions and it's called the jury instructions and it's written out who's responsible, this written out who's responsible, this written out who's responsible, this person, this person. They do this, yes person, this person. They do this, yes person, this person. They do this, yes or no? They add percentages, they might or no? They add percentages, they might or no? They add percentages, they might add money, whatever it is, it is this add money, whatever it is, it is this add money, whatever it is, it is this document that controls the ultimate document that controls the ultimate document that controls the ultimate outcome of the entire case. And good outcome of the entire case. And good outcome of the entire case. And good attorneys start with the jury attorneys start with the jury attorneys start with the jury instructions when they first get a new instructions when they first get a new instructions when they first get a new file. Bad attorneys wait till the very file. Bad attorneys wait till the very file. Bad attorneys wait till the very end. Same way in relationships, like you end. Same way in relationships, like you end. Same way in relationships, like you mentioned, if I know where the goal is, mentioned, if I know where the goal is, mentioned, if I know where the goal is, everything else becomes fluff. everything else becomes fluff. everything else becomes fluff. everything else becomes irrelevant. So everything else becomes irrelevant. So everything else becomes irrelevant. So what if they said that thing two years what if they said that thing two years what if they said that thing two years ago that you could bring up? So what if ago that you could bring up? So what if ago that you could bring up? So what if they, you know, said it a way that they they, you know, said it a way that they they, you know, said it a way that they rolled their eyes? Can can you have a rolled their eyes? Can can you have a rolled their eyes? Can can you have a little bit more emotional resilience to little bit more emotional resilience to little bit more emotional resilience to understand what's happening in that understand what's happening in that understand what's happening in that moment to not be clouded by the forest, moment to not be clouded by the forest, moment to not be clouded by the forest, you know, the trees through the forest you know, the trees through the forest you know, the trees through the forest to be able to see what's happening in to be able to see what's happening in to be able to see what's happening in real life. So start with your end. have real life. So start with your end. have real life. So start with your end. have a goal for the conversation a goal for the conversation a goal for the conversation and and make sure if I if I could say and and make sure if I if I could say and and make sure if I if I could say with you, let's say you and I are off with you, let's say you and I are off with you, let's say you and I are off and I say, Jay, I I know we're about to and I say, Jay, I I know we're about to and I say, Jay, I I know we're about to have a difficult conversation and I want have a difficult conversation and I want have a difficult conversation and I want you to know I'm going to be in it here you to know I'm going to be in it here you to know I'm going to be in it here with you. I mean, how encouraged do you with you. I mean, how encouraged do you with you. I mean, how encouraged do you feel of knowing I'm not trying to feel of knowing I'm not trying to feel of knowing I'm not trying to abandon you in it. I'm not trying to abandon you in it. I'm not trying to abandon you in it. I'm not trying to push something at you. And when you are push something at you. And when you are push something at you. And when you are able to slow it down and see arguments able to slow it down and see arguments able to slow it down and see arguments as not something to win but something to as not something to win but something to as not something to win but something to unravel, you find so much more in the unravel, you find so much more in the unravel, you find so much more in the connection. Momentum isn't created by connection. Momentum isn't created by connection. Momentum isn't created by doing more. It's created by doing the doing more. It's created by doing the doing more. It's created by doing the right things consistently. March is when right things consistently. March is when right things consistently. March is when clarity and commitment begin to clarity and commitment begin to clarity and commitment begin to compound. The habits you formed start to compound. The habits you formed start to compound. The habits you formed start to feel natural. Your idea starts to feel feel natural. Your idea starts to feel feel natural. Your idea starts to feel real. Shopify supports your business real. Shopify supports your business real. Shopify supports your business goals as your momentum builds. Whether goals as your momentum builds. Whether goals as your momentum builds. Whether you're refining your offering, sharing you're refining your offering, sharing you're refining your offering, sharing your story, or serving your first your story, or serving your first your story, or serving your first customers, it's built for people ready customers, it's built for people ready customers, it's built for people ready to invest in themselves. From a simple to invest in themselves. From a simple to invest in themselves. 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They grow with you so your business momentum grow with you so your business momentum grow with you so your business momentum feels sustainable, not exhausting. Build feels sustainable, not exhausting. Build feels sustainable, not exhausting. Build steady momentum with tools that support steady momentum with tools that support steady momentum with tools that support your purpose. Visit shopify.com/j. your purpose. Visit shopify.com/j. your purpose. Visit shopify.com/j. If you've been with someone for long If you've been with someone for long If you've been with someone for long enough, they're going to end up saying enough, they're going to end up saying enough, they're going to end up saying something that will trigger you something that will trigger you something that will trigger you >> or that will undoubtedly. >> or that will undoubtedly. >> or that will undoubtedly. >> Yeah. Unoubt if you've been to someone >> Yeah. Unoubt if you've been to someone >> Yeah. Unoubt if you've been to someone long enough. long enough. long enough. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> When your partner says something that >> When your partner says something that >> When your partner says something that triggers you triggers you triggers you >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> what do you do? >> what do you do? >> what do you do? >> You tell them in a way that communicates >> You tell them in a way that communicates >> You tell them in a way that communicates it that it sinks in. If something is it that it sinks in. If something is it that it sinks in. If something is said to me by Sierra and it it triggers said to me by Sierra and it it triggers said to me by Sierra and it it triggers me. One is there is a mindset to me in me. One is there is a mindset to me in me. One is there is a mindset to me in in any relationship that you have to in any relationship that you have to in any relationship that you have to have that says this is a place where I have that says this is a place where I have that says this is a place where I can be messy. This is a place where I can be messy. This is a place where I can be messy. This is a place where I don't have to be my best of all the don't have to be my best of all the don't have to be my best of all the place to be. This should be the safest place to be. This should be the safest place to be. This should be the safest for me. Now, if it's intentional, this for me. Now, if it's intentional, this for me. Now, if it's intentional, this person meant to trigger you, then what I person meant to trigger you, then what I person meant to trigger you, then what I like to do is ask the question, did you like to do is ask the question, did you like to do is ask the question, did you mean did you mean for that to upset me? mean did you mean for that to upset me? mean did you mean for that to upset me? Did you mean for that to hurt me? You Did you mean for that to hurt me? You Did you mean for that to hurt me? You you find out real quick if they really you find out real quick if they really you find out real quick if they really did because sometimes people say things did because sometimes people say things did because sometimes people say things they they don't mean. Not sometimes, they they don't mean. Not sometimes, they they don't mean. Not sometimes, they always do, you know. And if you they always do, you know. And if you they always do, you know. And if you find that you you can't even slow down find that you you can't even slow down find that you you can't even slow down enough to have the discussion of this is enough to have the discussion of this is enough to have the discussion of this is what hurt me, you know that this what hurt me, you know that this what hurt me, you know that this triggers me. I think there's also a triggers me. I think there's also a triggers me. I think there's also a difference of if they know that it does difference of if they know that it does difference of if they know that it does and they're using it as a weapon, well, and they're using it as a weapon, well, and they're using it as a weapon, well, that breaches trust versus they didn't that breaches trust versus they didn't that breaches trust versus they didn't know it and now you need to explain why. know it and now you need to explain why. know it and now you need to explain why. This this reminds you of that time when This this reminds you of that time when This this reminds you of that time when you were a kid that is setting you off you were a kid that is setting you off you were a kid that is setting you off and you're not really sure how to how to and you're not really sure how to how to and you're not really sure how to how to deal with it. So when it comes to being deal with it. So when it comes to being deal with it. So when it comes to being triggered, you first have to slow triggered, you first have to slow triggered, you first have to slow everything down. Means I'm going to talk everything down. Means I'm going to talk everything down. Means I'm going to talk slower. I'm going to lower my volume slower. I'm going to lower my volume slower. I'm going to lower my volume rather than getting amped up and I'm rather than getting amped up and I'm rather than getting amped up and I'm going to let them know that something going to let them know that something going to let them know that something else is coming up for me more than what else is coming up for me more than what else is coming up for me more than what you said. And if you're in a committed you said. And if you're in a committed you said. And if you're in a committed relationship that they want to relationship that they want to relationship that they want to understand you, that's a conversation understand you, that's a conversation understand you, that's a conversation you're going to have. And I think the you're going to have. And I think the you're going to have. And I think the natural reaction when someone says natural reaction when someone says natural reaction when someone says something that triggers us is either to something that triggers us is either to something that triggers us is either to say something that triggers them back. say something that triggers them back. say something that triggers them back. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Even if it was unconscious in the first >> Even if it was unconscious in the first >> Even if it was unconscious in the first place or we kind of rush to defend place or we kind of rush to defend place or we kind of rush to defend ourselves which seem like very natural ourselves which seem like very natural ourselves which seem like very natural human instincts. human instincts. human instincts. >> How do we build that slowness, that >> How do we build that slowness, that >> How do we build that slowness, that patience, that stillness that's required patience, that stillness that's required patience, that stillness that's required to actually create connection as opposed to actually create connection as opposed to actually create connection as opposed to do the human thing which is defend to do the human thing which is defend to do the human thing which is defend ourselves and prove our worth and show ourselves and prove our worth and show ourselves and prove our worth and show we're right? How do how do we even get we're right? How do how do we even get we're right? How do how do we even get into that pocket? into that pocket? into that pocket? Your first word has to be your breath. Your first word has to be your breath. Your first word has to be your breath. In those moments when somebody says In those moments when somebody says In those moments when somebody says something we don't like, we something we don't like, we something we don't like, we and we get up like that. We we suck it and we get up like that. We we suck it and we get up like that. We we suck it in, but we don't let it out. Instead, in, but we don't let it out. Instead, in, but we don't let it out. Instead, our our breath comes out when we're our our breath comes out when we're our our breath comes out when we're yelling. We're raising our voice. When yelling. We're raising our voice. When yelling. We're raising our voice. When when you start to yell and somebody when you start to yell and somebody when you start to yell and somebody says, "You're yelling." And you go, "I'm says, "You're yelling." And you go, "I'm says, "You're yelling." And you go, "I'm not yelling." Because you know deep down not yelling." Because you know deep down not yelling." Because you know deep down that's exactly what you're doing. If you that's exactly what you're doing. If you that's exactly what you're doing. If you find that you don't know how to slow it find that you don't know how to slow it find that you don't know how to slow it down, it's your breath. Your breath down, it's your breath. Your breath down, it's your breath. Your breath always comes first so that you can always comes first so that you can always comes first so that you can actually actually actually breathe. breathe. breathe. And there's a difference between if you And there's a difference between if you And there's a difference between if you say something that's hurtful and I say something that's hurtful and I say something that's hurtful and I immediately go me. Okay, Jake. What immediately go me. Okay, Jake. What immediately go me. Okay, Jake. What about you? You don't remember that time about you? You don't remember that time about you? You don't remember that time that you you really want to you're going that you you really want to you're going that you you really want to you're going to that's that's rich. That's funny. You to that's that's rich. That's funny. You to that's that's rich. That's funny. You you want to say this to me and I start you want to say this to me and I start you want to say this to me and I start right out you versus if I give it five right out you versus if I give it five right out you versus if I give it five to seven seconds of nothing. Meaning, to seven seconds of nothing. Meaning, to seven seconds of nothing. Meaning, I'm gonna breathe and I'm just gonna let I'm gonna breathe and I'm just gonna let I'm gonna breathe and I'm just gonna let your words fall to the ground. As if I your words fall to the ground. As if I your words fall to the ground. As if I go, "You sure you're good with that? go, "You sure you're good with that? go, "You sure you're good with that? That that what you said? Is that what That that what you said? Is that what That that what you said? Is that what you really want to say?" Because people you really want to say?" Because people you really want to say?" Because people don't like to hear their their words don't like to hear their their words don't like to hear their their words echo in that silence. I've seen it echo in that silence. I've seen it echo in that silence. I've seen it countless times where the person who countless times where the person who countless times where the person who said that hurtful thing, and you know said that hurtful thing, and you know said that hurtful thing, and you know what? I've been that person, too, where what? I've been that person, too, where what? I've been that person, too, where you say or they say, "I I I shouldn't you say or they say, "I I I shouldn't you say or they say, "I I I shouldn't have said that." before you have to say have said that." before you have to say have said that." before you have to say anything. What I what I meant to say was anything. What I what I meant to say was anything. What I what I meant to say was or or that that was too far. or or that that was too far. or or that that was too far. That's allowing That's allowing That's allowing you to look more controlled and more you to look more controlled and more you to look more controlled and more confident in that conversation. And all confident in that conversation. And all confident in that conversation. And all of a sudden, when it's like this instead of a sudden, when it's like this instead of a sudden, when it's like this instead of it slowly begins like this, just by of it slowly begins like this, just by of it slowly begins like this, just by the silence of understanding, the silence of understanding, the silence of understanding, hearing their words echo back withdraws hearing their words echo back withdraws hearing their words echo back withdraws that that sting. It it never stings as that that sting. It it never stings as that that sting. It it never stings as bad. Yeah. I like the let your breath bad. Yeah. I like the let your breath bad. Yeah. I like the let your breath become your first word. That's great. become your first word. That's great. become your first word. That's great. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And it's such a >> And it's such a >> And it's such a >> It feels like again it keeps going back >> It feels like again it keeps going back >> It feels like again it keeps going back to that idea of if you think every to that idea of if you think every to that idea of if you think every conversation and you write about this conversation and you write about this conversation and you write about this right at the beginning of the book. If right at the beginning of the book. If right at the beginning of the book. If you think every conversation is about you think every conversation is about you think every conversation is about winning and about being right, the goal winning and about being right, the goal winning and about being right, the goal is so skewed. is so skewed. is so skewed. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That you can't possibly take a breath >> That you can't possibly take a breath >> That you can't possibly take a breath because to you, you're just losing. because to you, you're just losing. because to you, you're just losing. >> Like a breath is just losing time. It's >> Like a breath is just losing time. It's >> Like a breath is just losing time. It's losing energy. It's losing momentum. losing energy. It's losing momentum. losing energy. It's losing momentum. It's it's just losing. And so again, it It's it's just losing. And so again, it It's it's just losing. And so again, it goes back down to how do we need to goes back down to how do we need to goes back down to how do we need to really reframe our mindset to say not really reframe our mindset to say not really reframe our mindset to say not every conversation is about winning and every conversation is about winning and every conversation is about winning and being right. Conversations are about being right. Conversations are about being right. Conversations are about understanding and seeing someone and understanding and seeing someone and understanding and seeing someone and connecting and finding a common ground. connecting and finding a common ground. connecting and finding a common ground. And it's just not how we're wired. And it's just not how we're wired. And it's just not how we're wired. >> No, it's it's not how we're wired. It >> No, it's it's not how we're wired. It >> No, it's it's not how we're wired. It takes discipline. It takes real takes discipline. It takes real takes discipline. It takes real discipline. When I hear people take a discipline. When I hear people take a discipline. When I hear people take a breath before they respond, breath before they respond, breath before they respond, >> I know it's about to come out is >> I know it's about to come out is >> I know it's about to come out is has a much more heavy has a much more heavy has a much more heavy >> footing to it. If you were to just ask >> footing to it. If you were to just ask >> footing to it. If you were to just ask me, you know, how was your day or how me, you know, how was your day or how me, you know, how was your day or how are you doing? I'm like, good. I'm good. are you doing? I'm like, good. I'm good. are you doing? I'm like, good. I'm good. I'm great. Everything's good. And I have I'm great. Everything's good. And I have I'm great. Everything's good. And I have that quick response. And if you instead that quick response. And if you instead that quick response. And if you instead were to ask me, how's your day? And I were to ask me, how's your day? And I were to ask me, how's your day? And I went, I'm good. Yeah, I'm good. Now, what's I'm good. Yeah, I'm good. Now, what's the difference? same thing. I just I use the difference? same thing. I just I use the difference? same thing. I just I use my breath. I slowed it down. my breath. I slowed it down. my breath. I slowed it down. >> I calm my nervous system. And as a >> I calm my nervous system. And as a >> I calm my nervous system. And as a secondary benefit, I also calm down secondary benefit, I also calm down secondary benefit, I also calm down yours. yours. yours. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And so most of the time when you feel >> And so most of the time when you feel >> And so most of the time when you feel that rise coming, you have to slow down that rise coming, you have to slow down that rise coming, you have to slow down the conversation. So the the to me, the the conversation. So the the to me, the the conversation. So the the to me, the hotter the fire burns, the more you have hotter the fire burns, the more you have hotter the fire burns, the more you have to to spread out the cold because it's to to spread out the cold because it's to to spread out the cold because it's >> slowing it down. Even asking, "Can we >> slowing it down. Even asking, "Can we >> slowing it down. Even asking, "Can we can we slow this down for a second? Can can we slow this down for a second? Can can we slow this down for a second? Can I take a a moment just to I I'm I'm here I take a a moment just to I I'm I'm here I take a a moment just to I I'm I'm here with you. I just need a second to to with you. I just need a second to to with you. I just need a second to to think. What follows after is never how think. What follows after is never how think. What follows after is never how it sounded before. it sounded before. it sounded before. >> If your partner is giving you the silent >> If your partner is giving you the silent >> If your partner is giving you the silent treatment, how do you engage? treatment, how do you engage? treatment, how do you engage? >> Depends if the silent treatment is there >> Depends if the silent treatment is there >> Depends if the silent treatment is there for a reason. for a reason. for a reason. >> Some people you you kind of have to do >> Some people you you kind of have to do >> Some people you you kind of have to do the the gray rock on that they're you the the gray rock on that they're you the the gray rock on that they're you can't be you can't reason with them. So, can't be you can't reason with them. So, can't be you can't reason with them. So, I'm not saying that silent treatment is I'm not saying that silent treatment is I'm not saying that silent treatment is is not there for a good reason is not there for a good reason is not there for a good reason sometimes, but let's say it's there to sometimes, but let's say it's there to sometimes, but let's say it's there to hurt you. You people who will use hurt you. You people who will use hurt you. You people who will use silence as a punishment. They're upset silence as a punishment. They're upset silence as a punishment. They're upset you did something and they just go, you did something and they just go, you did something and they just go, "Okay, I'm just not going to talk to you "Okay, I'm just not going to talk to you "Okay, I'm just not going to talk to you anymore." anymore." anymore." That to me is the number one sign of low That to me is the number one sign of low That to me is the number one sign of low emotional intelligence is if you can't emotional intelligence is if you can't emotional intelligence is if you can't even have the ability to say even have the ability to say even have the ability to say I need to take a break for a second I need to take a break for a second I need to take a break for a second because that really upset me. because that really upset me. because that really upset me. I'll text you this afternoon. I'll text I'll text you this afternoon. I'll text I'll text you this afternoon. I'll text you tomorrow. I'll call you tomorrow you tomorrow. I'll call you tomorrow you tomorrow. I'll call you tomorrow versus just ghosting just because what versus just ghosting just because what versus just ghosting just because what it does is it puts the other person in it does is it puts the other person in it does is it puts the other person in position of trying to beg, trying to position of trying to beg, trying to position of trying to beg, trying to plead and then what happens to that plead and then what happens to that plead and then what happens to that other person? They desperately want you other person? They desperately want you other person? They desperately want you to communicate. So what do they do? Most to communicate. So what do they do? Most to communicate. So what do they do? Most of the time they say something super of the time they say something super of the time they say something super flagrant like a bad foul. They they say flagrant like a bad foul. They they say flagrant like a bad foul. They they say something that is really harsh just in something that is really harsh just in something that is really harsh just in hopes that you come back in that that's hopes that you come back in that that's hopes that you come back in that that's it. They just want that text back. Okay, it. They just want that text back. Okay, it. They just want that text back. Okay, he's still there. He still reads my he's still there. He still reads my he's still there. He still reads my text. He's still whatever it is. And so text. He's still whatever it is. And so text. He's still whatever it is. And so if you really are somebody who's you're if you really are somebody who's you're if you really are somebody who's you're trying to get through the silent trying to get through the silent trying to get through the silent treatment, respond to, "I see that treatment, respond to, "I see that treatment, respond to, "I see that you're giving me the silent treatment. I you're giving me the silent treatment. I you're giving me the silent treatment. I see that you've gone quiet on me. I'm see that you've gone quiet on me. I'm see that you've gone quiet on me. I'm going to give you space. I'm ready to going to give you space. I'm ready to going to give you space. I'm ready to have the conversation when you are." have the conversation when you are." have the conversation when you are." Now, there's a difference of somebody Now, there's a difference of somebody Now, there's a difference of somebody taking an hour to get back with you. taking an hour to get back with you. taking an hour to get back with you. Taken 5 days to get back with you. Well, Taken 5 days to get back with you. Well, Taken 5 days to get back with you. Well, that's something different. That's that's something different. That's that's something different. That's that's somebody who has chosen not to be that's somebody who has chosen not to be that's somebody who has chosen not to be connected. Because if I really want a connected. Because if I really want a connected. Because if I really want a conversation with you, a real conversation with you, a real conversation with you, a real relationship with you, I'm not going to relationship with you, I'm not going to relationship with you, I'm not going to put you in the position of begging. put you in the position of begging. put you in the position of begging. >> That's such a great note that if someone >> That's such a great note that if someone >> That's such a great note that if someone wants to be in a relationship with you, wants to be in a relationship with you, wants to be in a relationship with you, they'll never put you in a position of they'll never put you in a position of they'll never put you in a position of begging. begging. begging. >> Never. They'll always stay interested, >> Never. They'll always stay interested, >> Never. They'll always stay interested, you know, it's it's like we've for you know, it's it's like we've for you know, it's it's like we've for people who are married, let's say, or in people who are married, let's say, or in people who are married, let's say, or in a a big relationship, it starts with me a a big relationship, it starts with me a a big relationship, it starts with me being very interested in you. I'm going being very interested in you. I'm going being very interested in you. I'm going to want to know your favorite color. I'm to want to know your favorite color. I'm to want to know your favorite color. I'm going to want to know what you like to going to want to know what you like to going to want to know what you like to eat, what you like to wear. I want to eat, what you like to wear. I want to eat, what you like to wear. I want to know about your your family. I want to know about your your family. I want to know about your your family. I want to know all these things about you. I'm so know all these things about you. I'm so know all these things about you. I'm so interested. Why? Cuz I want to interested. Why? Cuz I want to interested. Why? Cuz I want to understand you. And then we get happy understand you. And then we get happy understand you. And then we get happy and then we just it becomes a measure of and then we just it becomes a measure of and then we just it becomes a measure of how good can I feel with you and the how good can I feel with you and the how good can I feel with you and the good and then you get married and it's good and then you get married and it's good and then you get married and it's better. It's for better or worse, right? better. It's for better or worse, right? better. It's for better or worse, right? And then you just realize I don't really And then you just realize I don't really And then you just realize I don't really like this worst part. I I really just like this worst part. I I really just like this worst part. I I really just like the better part. And all of a like the better part. And all of a like the better part. And all of a sudden you realize that things get hard sudden you realize that things get hard sudden you realize that things get hard and you're in year seven of your and you're in year seven of your and you're in year seven of your marriage and year 14 of your marriage marriage and year 14 of your marriage marriage and year 14 of your marriage and you feel further drifted apart cuz and you feel further drifted apart cuz and you feel further drifted apart cuz really you became less interested really you became less interested really you became less interested >> in them. You didn't get interested in >> in them. You didn't get interested in >> in them. You didn't get interested in the hard. You were just interested in the hard. You were just interested in the hard. You were just interested in what was the basics. You were good with what was the basics. You were good with what was the basics. You were good with the basic facts. You weren't good for the basic facts. You weren't good for the basic facts. You weren't good for the the deep stuff. you were. It gets to the the deep stuff. you were. It gets to the the deep stuff. you were. It gets to be where if you really want to know and be where if you really want to know and be where if you really want to know and test the strength of a relationship, test the strength of a relationship, test the strength of a relationship, it's not the measure of how good do I it's not the measure of how good do I it's not the measure of how good do I feel in the good times. It's how long feel in the good times. It's how long feel in the good times. It's how long can I sit with them in the hard times. M can I sit with them in the hard times. M can I sit with them in the hard times. M >> and when I can sit with you in what is >> and when I can sit with you in what is >> and when I can sit with you in what is the deep struggle when we're both crying the deep struggle when we're both crying the deep struggle when we're both crying when we're both 3 hours into the when we're both 3 hours into the when we're both 3 hours into the argument and going I don't understand argument and going I don't understand argument and going I don't understand why I can't communicate with you. I I why I can't communicate with you. I I why I can't communicate with you. I I don't how did I ever like you in the don't how did I ever like you in the don't how did I ever like you in the first place that's real that's raw. And first place that's real that's raw. And first place that's real that's raw. And if I can still sit with you in it that if I can still sit with you in it that if I can still sit with you in it that that's a type of connection that that that's a type of connection that that that's a type of connection that that will last forever. It's, you know, I I will last forever. It's, you know, I I will last forever. It's, you know, I I talk to so many couples and even older talk to so many couples and even older talk to so many couples and even older couples of, you know, how do you how do couples of, you know, how do you how do couples of, you know, how do you how do you do it with communicating? How do you you do it with communicating? How do you you do it with communicating? How do you how do you do communication? So, well, how do you do communication? So, well, how do you do communication? So, well, it's never it's never it's never we have really big conversations, we have really big conversations, we have really big conversations, you know, it's never that it's we know you know, it's never that it's we know you know, it's never that it's we know that things are going to be hard and we that things are going to be hard and we that things are going to be hard and we choose to stick through the hard. People choose to stick through the hard. People choose to stick through the hard. People give up too easily. I mean, you you're give up too easily. I mean, you you're give up too easily. I mean, you you're married. I'm married. It's they're a married. I'm married. It's they're a married. I'm married. It's they're a fight. They they are an absolute fight fight. They they are an absolute fight fight. They they are an absolute fight not between each other but for the not between each other but for the not between each other but for the relationship. It's the relationship relationship. It's the relationship relationship. It's the relationship versus everything else. Attention, time, versus everything else. Attention, time, versus everything else. Attention, time, obligations, finances, kids. It's the obligations, finances, kids. It's the obligations, finances, kids. It's the relationship versus everybody else. relationship versus everybody else. relationship versus everybody else. >> Is there anything someone can ever say >> Is there anything someone can ever say >> Is there anything someone can ever say that shows you they're not your person? >> I don't care >> I don't care about you. if they really don't have an about you. if they really don't have an about you. if they really don't have an interest in caring about you. If if you interest in caring about you. If if you interest in caring about you. If if you hear that I'm upset, are you hear that hear that I'm upset, are you hear that hear that I'm upset, are you hear that your wife's upset? You should care. I'm your wife's upset? You should care. I'm your wife's upset? You should care. I'm not talking about the surface level not talking about the surface level not talking about the surface level like, "Okay, I don't care about that like, "Okay, I don't care about that like, "Okay, I don't care about that right now." I'm talking about the deep, right now." I'm talking about the deep, right now." I'm talking about the deep, it does not affect me. When you're on it does not affect me. When you're on it does not affect me. When you're on the ground and upset and face on the the ground and upset and face on the the ground and upset and face on the floor and you're crying and it doesn't floor and you're crying and it doesn't floor and you're crying and it doesn't affect you because you don't care, that affect you because you don't care, that affect you because you don't care, that to me is they're not your to me is they're not your to me is they're not your person. person. person. If you want to know if somebody is your If you want to know if somebody is your If you want to know if somebody is your person, have they asked how you're person, have they asked how you're person, have they asked how you're doing? I've seen so many people go on doing? I've seen so many people go on doing? I've seen so many people go on dates or have relationships and they dates or have relationships and they dates or have relationships and they say, "Yeah, they they were nice, but I say, "Yeah, they they were nice, but I say, "Yeah, they they were nice, but I don't think they ever really asked about don't think they ever really asked about don't think they ever really asked about me. They just talked about themselves." me. They just talked about themselves." me. They just talked about themselves." Is they just needed to, you know, rent Is they just needed to, you know, rent Is they just needed to, you know, rent an ear for a little bit because they an ear for a little bit because they an ear for a little bit because they just made it all about themselves. Those just made it all about themselves. Those just made it all about themselves. Those are people that, you know, are not going are people that, you know, are not going are people that, you know, are not going to be your people. If you want to know to be your people. If you want to know to be your people. If you want to know if they are your person, you don't have if they are your person, you don't have if they are your person, you don't have to ask them, "Why don't you ask about to ask them, "Why don't you ask about to ask them, "Why don't you ask about me?" They will naturally want to know me?" They will naturally want to know me?" They will naturally want to know more about you. You don't have to ask. I more about you. You don't have to ask. I more about you. You don't have to ask. I had this one time where she a woman had this one time where she a woman had this one time where she a woman asked me, you know, I went on a date and asked me, you know, I went on a date and asked me, you know, I went on a date and he really didn't ask about me, you know, he really didn't ask about me, you know, he really didn't ask about me, you know, that much. I'm not really sure what to that much. I'm not really sure what to that much. I'm not really sure what to do. I said, don't go on another date. do. I said, don't go on another date. do. I said, don't go on another date. Like if if they're not going to just ask Like if if they're not going to just ask Like if if they're not going to just ask about you and the basics, about you and the basics, about you and the basics, >> how could they ever want to know about >> how could they ever want to know about >> how could they ever want to know about you when things are hard when they will you when things are hard when they will you when things are hard when they will be hard? There's no getting a getting be hard? There's no getting a getting be hard? There's no getting a getting around it. It they will be hard. That's around it. It they will be hard. That's around it. It they will be hard. That's that's how you know if they they are that's how you know if they they are that's how you know if they they are your person. They're willing to have the your person. They're willing to have the your person. They're willing to have the deep hard conversation. deep hard conversation. deep hard conversation. >> How do you know if your relationship >> How do you know if your relationship >> How do you know if your relationship just has so many arguments that it's just has so many arguments that it's just has so many arguments that it's beyond saving? How do you know that it's beyond saving? How do you know that it's beyond saving? How do you know that it's gone too far? gone too far? gone too far? >> When you look back and the other person >> When you look back and the other person >> When you look back and the other person is 10 miles behind you. is 10 miles behind you. is 10 miles behind you. >> Explain that. >> Explain that. >> Explain that. >> When you're doing it alone, that you've >> When you're doing it alone, that you've >> When you're doing it alone, that you've read all the books, you've read all the read all the books, you've read all the read all the books, you've read all the materials, you're listening to all the materials, you're listening to all the materials, you're listening to all the podcasts, you might be listening to this podcasts, you might be listening to this podcasts, you might be listening to this episode and going, "I desperately want episode and going, "I desperately want episode and going, "I desperately want to heal my marriage, my relationship. I to heal my marriage, my relationship. I to heal my marriage, my relationship. I don't know what to do." because most don't know what to do." because most don't know what to do." because most likely they're the only ones with an ore likely they're the only ones with an ore likely they're the only ones with an ore in their hand trying to paddle and the in their hand trying to paddle and the in their hand trying to paddle and the other person is just in the back with other person is just in the back with other person is just in the back with their arms folded. I don't really I their arms folded. I don't really I their arms folded. I don't really I don't want to be here. Does it not don't want to be here. Does it not don't want to be here. Does it not bother you that we are in conflict right bother you that we are in conflict right bother you that we are in conflict right now? I I mean I I don't really care. now? I I mean I I don't really care. now? I I mean I I don't really care. It's really your fault. And they feel It's really your fault. And they feel It's really your fault. And they feel like they're the only ones that are like they're the only ones that are like they're the only ones that are there. These people that it doesn't there. These people that it doesn't there. These people that it doesn't matter what technique you do. It doesn't matter what technique you do. It doesn't matter what technique you do. It doesn't matter how much you push. They are matter how much you push. They are matter how much you push. They are someone that will never try and reach someone that will never try and reach someone that will never try and reach for you. for you. for you. >> So, how do you know when it's enough >> So, how do you know when it's enough >> So, how do you know when it's enough that you've put out your hand and that you've put out your hand and that you've put out your hand and they're unwilling to take it? they're unwilling to take it? they're unwilling to take it? >> And you just look back in the rearview >> And you just look back in the rearview >> And you just look back in the rearview mirror and they're okay with leaving it. mirror and they're okay with leaving it. mirror and they're okay with leaving it. >> Yeah. And I think the hard part is >> Yeah. And I think the hard part is >> Yeah. And I think the hard part is sometimes people show these glimpses of sometimes people show these glimpses of sometimes people show these glimpses of or rays of hope and then you believe or rays of hope and then you believe or rays of hope and then you believe that and then they go back to being the that and then they go back to being the that and then they go back to being the way they were. way they were. way they were. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And they kind of oscillate between >> And they kind of oscillate between >> And they kind of oscillate between showing you they care momentarily but showing you they care momentarily but showing you they care momentarily but then going back to not caring. And it's then going back to not caring. And it's then going back to not caring. And it's so hard to know which one to invest in so hard to know which one to invest in so hard to know which one to invest in and which one to believe. and which one to believe. and which one to believe. >> Mhm. I think that the more honest of a >> Mhm. I think that the more honest of a >> Mhm. I think that the more honest of a conversation you can have with that conversation you can have with that conversation you can have with that person person person >> Yeah. the more honest reflection of what >> Yeah. the more honest reflection of what >> Yeah. the more honest reflection of what kind of relationship you have. Like we kind of relationship you have. Like we kind of relationship you have. Like we talked about at the beginning, Jay, if talked about at the beginning, Jay, if talked about at the beginning, Jay, if if I can't have the hard conversation if I can't have the hard conversation if I can't have the hard conversation with you, then how deep is our with you, then how deep is our with you, then how deep is our relationship? relationship? relationship? >> You know, if look look at the >> You know, if look look at the >> You know, if look look at the relationship itself is if it's only relationship itself is if it's only relationship itself is if it's only surface level conversations. I'll show surface level conversations. I'll show surface level conversations. I'll show you a surface level relationship. But if you a surface level relationship. But if you a surface level relationship. But if you're willing to have the hard talks, you're willing to have the hard talks, you're willing to have the hard talks, no, I can show you much deeper no, I can show you much deeper no, I can show you much deeper relationship. What's your capacity for relationship. What's your capacity for relationship. What's your capacity for the difficult? And yeah, people will the difficult? And yeah, people will the difficult? And yeah, people will show you the glimpses in conversation show you the glimpses in conversation show you the glimpses in conversation of, "Oh, there's that person. There's of, "Oh, there's that person. There's of, "Oh, there's that person. There's that person that I I like, and then it's that person that I I like, and then it's that person that I I like, and then it's gone." Well, that's because it's it's gone." Well, that's because it's it's gone." Well, that's because it's it's only a side effect. It's it's not the only a side effect. It's it's not the only a side effect. It's it's not the main symptom. main symptom. main symptom. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> They are they're only putting on the >> They are they're only putting on the >> They are they're only putting on the show to keep you entertained. They are show to keep you entertained. They are show to keep you entertained. They are It's like a slot machine, you know? They It's like a slot machine, you know? They It's like a slot machine, you know? They just want to keep you addicted just for just want to keep you addicted just for just want to keep you addicted just for a little bit longer. And you have to a little bit longer. And you have to a little bit longer. And you have to look back and go, what am I what am I look back and go, what am I what am I look back and go, what am I what am I getting from this in real time? What am getting from this in real time? What am getting from this in real time? What am I truly getting from this? Am I am I I truly getting from this? Am I am I I truly getting from this? Am I am I enough just by myself? enough just by myself? enough just by myself? >> I think that's the deeper issue of >> I think that's the deeper issue of >> I think that's the deeper issue of feeling if I don't have this person, who feeling if I don't have this person, who feeling if I don't have this person, who am I? am I? am I? >> Yeah. And that's why we don't say how we >> Yeah. And that's why we don't say how we >> Yeah. And that's why we don't say how we feel. It's why we mold who we are. It's feel. It's why we mold who we are. It's feel. It's why we mold who we are. It's why we tolerate bad behavior and bad why we tolerate bad behavior and bad why we tolerate bad behavior and bad words and bad communication because we words and bad communication because we words and bad communication because we don't feel like we're fulfilled without don't feel like we're fulfilled without don't feel like we're fulfilled without them. So, we'd rather have a painful them. So, we'd rather have a painful them. So, we'd rather have a painful existence with them than a potentially existence with them than a potentially existence with them than a potentially painful or long-term nonp. painful or long-term nonp. painful or long-term nonp. >> And I appreciate what you're saying >> And I appreciate what you're saying >> And I appreciate what you're saying because it shows that there are real because it shows that there are real because it shows that there are real ramifications and consequences to poor ramifications and consequences to poor ramifications and consequences to poor communication. communication. communication. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Because I think a lot of us will just >> Because I think a lot of us will just >> Because I think a lot of us will just tolerate and elongate tolerate and elongate tolerate and elongate those periods hoping things will just those periods hoping things will just those periods hoping things will just get better or go away. But the reality get better or go away. But the reality get better or go away. But the reality is that people don't change their is that people don't change their is that people don't change their communication patterns that quickly. communication patterns that quickly. communication patterns that quickly. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And that's a harsh reality. It's a harsh >> And that's a harsh reality. It's a harsh >> And that's a harsh reality. It's a harsh truth. truth. truth. >> Things don't change if things don't >> Things don't change if things don't >> Things don't change if things don't change. You know, I I know that when you change. You know, I I know that when you change. You know, I I know that when you have those moments where you go, I I have those moments where you go, I I have those moments where you go, I I wish things were were different in our wish things were were different in our wish things were were different in our communication. Yeah. It takes that takes communication. Yeah. It takes that takes communication. Yeah. It takes that takes time. That takes real raw vulnerability. time. That takes real raw vulnerability. time. That takes real raw vulnerability. It is my belief that that love is It is my belief that that love is It is my belief that that love is self-disclosure. self-disclosure. self-disclosure. If I really want you to know me, I'm If I really want you to know me, I'm If I really want you to know me, I'm going to disclose everything. And if I going to disclose everything. And if I going to disclose everything. And if I want to know you, I need you to disclose want to know you, I need you to disclose want to know you, I need you to disclose everything. I need radical honesty in everything. I need radical honesty in everything. I need radical honesty in this relationship to know that I'm never this relationship to know that I'm never this relationship to know that I'm never going to be too much. They need to know. going to be too much. They need to know. going to be too much. They need to know. My wife needs to know. She's never going My wife needs to know. She's never going My wife needs to know. She's never going to be too much. And when you can create to be too much. And when you can create to be too much. And when you can create the element of safety in conversation, the element of safety in conversation, the element of safety in conversation, you you create a relationship that can you you create a relationship that can you you create a relationship that can be impenetrable be impenetrable be impenetrable >> to anything from the outside. When >> to anything from the outside. When >> to anything from the outside. When things get stressful and stuff and that things get stressful and stuff and that things get stressful and stuff and that tension, you you kind of bond together, tension, you you kind of bond together, tension, you you kind of bond together, right? But if there's a source in right? But if there's a source in right? But if there's a source in between you and you can't address it, if between you and you can't address it, if between you and you can't address it, if you can't take care of that, it's it's you can't take care of that, it's it's you can't take care of that, it's it's never the outside in. It's always the never the outside in. It's always the never the outside in. It's always the inside out that that ruins you. inside out that that ruins you. inside out that that ruins you. >> Yeah. Yeah. You you made me think of a >> Yeah. Yeah. You you made me think of a >> Yeah. Yeah. You you made me think of a moment where sometimes if we're if we're moment where sometimes if we're if we're moment where sometimes if we're if we're doing an interview or maybe even if doing an interview or maybe even if doing an interview or maybe even if we're talking or talking to a friend and we're talking or talking to a friend and we're talking or talking to a friend and >> my and someone will ask us about a >> my and someone will ask us about a >> my and someone will ask us about a relationship and my wife will sometimes relationship and my wife will sometimes relationship and my wife will sometimes be like, "Oh, I can be a lot." Like she be like, "Oh, I can be a lot." Like she be like, "Oh, I can be a lot." Like she as in she's talking about herself. as in she's talking about herself. as in she's talking about herself. She'll be like, "Oh, I can be a lot. I She'll be like, "Oh, I can be a lot. I She'll be like, "Oh, I can be a lot. I can be too much sometimes." And my can be too much sometimes." And my can be too much sometimes." And my honest reaction is, "You are not a lot honest reaction is, "You are not a lot honest reaction is, "You are not a lot at all." at all." at all." >> Uh and and she'll be like, "No, no, I >> Uh and and she'll be like, "No, no, I >> Uh and and she'll be like, "No, no, I can be." And now now we're getting into can be." And now now we're getting into can be." And now now we're getting into an argument. I'm like, "Well, no, you're an argument. I'm like, "Well, no, you're an argument. I'm like, "Well, no, you're not." Yes, I am. Yes, I am. She's like, not." Yes, I am. Yes, I am. She's like, not." Yes, I am. Yes, I am. She's like, "Yes, I am." And I'm like, "No, you're "Yes, I am." And I'm like, "No, you're "Yes, I am." And I'm like, "No, you're not." And and it reminds me because it's not." And and it reminds me because it's not." And and it reminds me because it's it's that same thing like I appreciate it's that same thing like I appreciate it's that same thing like I appreciate her because I don't think she's a lot. her because I don't think she's a lot. her because I don't think she's a lot. >> Like there's there's not a moment where >> Like there's there's not a moment where >> Like there's there's not a moment where I'm like, "Oh, you you're being too I'm like, "Oh, you you're being too I'm like, "Oh, you you're being too much." much." much." >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> Because you're right. I want her to be >> Because you're right. I want her to be >> Because you're right. I want her to be herself with me. herself with me. herself with me. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> What with what she's going through and >> What with what she's going through and >> What with what she's going through and trust that she can share that and trust that she can share that and trust that she can share that and express that. express that. express that. >> That's how you know that they're your >> That's how you know that they're your >> That's how you know that they're your person. person. person. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> When they're not too much. >> When they're not too much. >> When they're not too much. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> For you. You know, you have capacity for >> For you. You know, you have capacity for >> For you. You know, you have capacity for all the range of everything that they all the range of everything that they all the range of everything that they are will be and what they have to offer. are will be and what they have to offer. are will be and what they have to offer. You know, their strengths as well as You know, their strengths as well as You know, their strengths as well as their weaknesses, especially the their weaknesses, especially the their weaknesses, especially the weaknesses because you and I, we have weaknesses because you and I, we have weaknesses because you and I, we have many. many. many. >> Yeah. Of course. >> Yeah. Of course. >> Yeah. Of course. >> Yeah. So, so you're saying that if if >> Yeah. So, so you're saying that if if >> Yeah. So, so you're saying that if if you don't have the capacity to handle you don't have the capacity to handle you don't have the capacity to handle all of someone, then they may not be all of someone, then they may not be all of someone, then they may not be right for you and you may not be right right for you and you may not be right right for you and you may not be right for them. for them. for them. >> That's exactly right. >> That's exactly right. >> That's exactly right. >> Yeah. If there is a mismatch in capacity >> Yeah. If there is a mismatch in capacity >> Yeah. If there is a mismatch in capacity to to to deal with the messy, right? They say you deal with the messy, right? They say you deal with the messy, right? They say you can't if you can't be with me in my hard can't if you can't be with me in my hard can't if you can't be with me in my hard times, then you don't deserve me at the times, then you don't deserve me at the times, then you don't deserve me at the >> the best, right? That's absolutely true, >> the best, right? That's absolutely true, >> the best, right? That's absolutely true, especially in conversations. If I can't especially in conversations. If I can't especially in conversations. If I can't have the the grace, the capacity by you have the the grace, the capacity by you have the the grace, the capacity by you for me to say the wrong thing and you for me to say the wrong thing and you for me to say the wrong thing and you realize that I did say the wrong thing realize that I did say the wrong thing realize that I did say the wrong thing and there's a place for me to apologize. and there's a place for me to apologize. and there's a place for me to apologize. I mean, repair has to happen. Yeah, I mean, repair has to happen. Yeah, I mean, repair has to happen. Yeah, >> repair to it's on me to do that. Now, if >> repair to it's on me to do that. Now, if >> repair to it's on me to do that. Now, if I know that I don't have the capacity in I know that I don't have the capacity in I know that I don't have the capacity in that moment to absorb everything that is that moment to absorb everything that is that moment to absorb everything that is happening, that's that's not going to to happening, that's that's not going to to happening, that's that's not going to to work. It's not it's not for lack of work. It's not it's not for lack of work. It's not it's not for lack of love. love. love. >> It's a lack of capacity. >> It's a lack of capacity. >> It's a lack of capacity. >> What should a healthy repair >> What should a healthy repair >> What should a healthy repair conversation look like? So, if you're conversation look like? So, if you're conversation look like? So, if you're going to repair with someone cuz you going to repair with someone cuz you going to repair with someone cuz you said something you don't mean or said something you don't mean or said something you don't mean or someone's going to repair with you someone's going to repair with you someone's going to repair with you saying something because they said saying something because they said saying something because they said something they don't mean. something they don't mean. something they don't mean. >> Mhm. M what should that conversation >> Mhm. M what should that conversation >> Mhm. M what should that conversation sound like from their end or yours based sound like from their end or yours based sound like from their end or yours based on who did the mistake? on who did the mistake? on who did the mistake? >> 99% of the time our arguments are not >> 99% of the time our arguments are not >> 99% of the time our arguments are not what we're arguing about. They are about what we're arguing about. They are about what we're arguing about. They are about the hidden need. The need to feel the hidden need. The need to feel the hidden need. The need to feel understood, the need to feel heard, the understood, the need to feel heard, the understood, the need to feel heard, the need to feel safe by that other person. need to feel safe by that other person. need to feel safe by that other person. And things go so south when I pick up And things go so south when I pick up And things go so south when I pick up the frustration or I pick up the the frustration or I pick up the the frustration or I pick up the reaction and not listening to the need. reaction and not listening to the need. reaction and not listening to the need. Every one of us, ourselves included, we Every one of us, ourselves included, we Every one of us, ourselves included, we go into conversations with these hidden go into conversations with these hidden go into conversations with these hidden fears of am I enough? fears of am I enough? fears of am I enough? >> Am I enough if I get it wrong? Am I >> Am I enough if I get it wrong? Am I >> Am I enough if I get it wrong? Am I enough if I look scared or I don't know enough if I look scared or I don't know enough if I look scared or I don't know what to do or I don't know what to say what to do or I don't know what to say what to do or I don't know what to say or will I be abandoned? Are they not or will I be abandoned? Are they not or will I be abandoned? Are they not going to want me or do they not really going to want me or do they not really going to want me or do they not really care? We we come in every single time to care? We we come in every single time to care? We we come in every single time to one of these conversations and if I'm one of these conversations and if I'm one of these conversations and if I'm just responding to the reaction rather just responding to the reaction rather just responding to the reaction rather than addressing the need, there's always than addressing the need, there's always than addressing the need, there's always going to be a mismatch. There's always going to be a mismatch. There's always going to be a mismatch. There's always going to be conflict that is now going to be conflict that is now going to be conflict that is now corrosive to the very fabric of the corrosive to the very fabric of the corrosive to the very fabric of the conversation. Like say for example in in conversation. Like say for example in in conversation. Like say for example in in a relationship somebody goes, "Do you a relationship somebody goes, "Do you a relationship somebody goes, "Do you even do you even care? Like I don't even even do you even care? Like I don't even even do you even care? Like I don't even know. Do you even care?" And what is the know. Do you even care?" And what is the know. Do you even care?" And what is the guy they go? Oh, this again. Really? Do guy they go? Oh, this again. Really? Do guy they go? Oh, this again. Really? Do I care? Like okay this. Okay. This is so I care? Like okay this. Okay. This is so I care? Like okay this. Okay. This is so stupid. And what you're doing, you're stupid. And what you're doing, you're stupid. And what you're doing, you're you're tearing the very fabric of the you're tearing the very fabric of the you're tearing the very fabric of the relationship, when you are dismissive relationship, when you are dismissive relationship, when you are dismissive over how there's a real feeling. So when over how there's a real feeling. So when over how there's a real feeling. So when somebody is sharing that kind of somebody is sharing that kind of somebody is sharing that kind of question with you and you treat them as question with you and you treat them as question with you and you treat them as if that question is real, because it is, if that question is real, because it is, if that question is real, because it is, you change everything, how do you model you change everything, how do you model you change everything, how do you model repair that you model it by saying, "I repair that you model it by saying, "I repair that you model it by saying, "I can totally see how you'd think that. I can totally see how you'd think that. I can totally see how you'd think that. I can see how you'd be frustrated." You can see how you'd be frustrated." You can see how you'd be frustrated." You know, if if that's the way you heard it, know, if if that's the way you heard it, know, if if that's the way you heard it, I I don't blame you for being upset I I don't blame you for being upset I I don't blame you for being upset about it. Of course, you'd be upset about it. Of course, you'd be upset about it. Of course, you'd be upset about that. It sounds like that sounds about that. It sounds like that sounds about that. It sounds like that sounds really frustrating. really frustrating. really frustrating. >> That sounds scary. I get the feeling you >> That sounds scary. I get the feeling you >> That sounds scary. I get the feeling you you feel really hopeless right now. And you feel really hopeless right now. And you feel really hopeless right now. And it's like, yes, that is exactly how I'm it's like, yes, that is exactly how I'm it's like, yes, that is exactly how I'm feeling. You just you you want somebody feeling. You just you you want somebody feeling. You just you you want somebody to understand how you're doing. I don't to understand how you're doing. I don't to understand how you're doing. I don't need to agree with you to understand need to agree with you to understand need to agree with you to understand you. I don't need to fix the problem to you. I don't need to fix the problem to you. I don't need to fix the problem to meet the need. I just need to slow down meet the need. I just need to slow down meet the need. I just need to slow down long enough to put aside the frustration long enough to put aside the frustration long enough to put aside the frustration and the reaction and see the wound. and the reaction and see the wound. and the reaction and see the wound. >> It's so clear that if we simply went >> It's so clear that if we simply went >> It's so clear that if we simply went into every conversation or the next into every conversation or the next into every conversation or the next conversation conversation conversation just trying to understand how much would just trying to understand how much would just trying to understand how much would be solved. be solved. be solved. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Because like you said, everyone's just >> Because like you said, everyone's just >> Because like you said, everyone's just trying to get you to understand them trying to get you to understand them trying to get you to understand them whether they're shouting. There's that whether they're shouting. There's that whether they're shouting. There's that beautiful statement that I love from beautiful statement that I love from beautiful statement that I love from Russell Barkley where he said that the Russell Barkley where he said that the Russell Barkley where he said that the people that need the most love will ask people that need the most love will ask people that need the most love will ask for it in the most unloving ways. for it in the most unloving ways. for it in the most unloving ways. >> That's right. It's it's slowing down the >> That's right. It's it's slowing down the >> That's right. It's it's slowing down the moment to say, "What do they need right moment to say, "What do they need right moment to say, "What do they need right now that they don't have the words to now that they don't have the words to now that they don't have the words to ask for? What are they asking for that ask for? What are they asking for that ask for? What are they asking for that they don't have the words to say?" they don't have the words to say?" they don't have the words to say?" >> And when I can stop and say, "What is >> And when I can stop and say, "What is >> And when I can stop and say, "What is happening here?" Like you think like I happening here?" Like you think like I happening here?" Like you think like I have we have two kids, all right? Seven have we have two kids, all right? Seven have we have two kids, all right? Seven and five. And when my son who's seven and five. And when my son who's seven and five. And when my son who's seven was, let's say three, right? And and if was, let's say three, right? And and if was, let's say three, right? And and if he was crying, yelling, throwing he was crying, yelling, throwing he was crying, yelling, throwing something, yelling no, uh throwing a something, yelling no, uh throwing a something, yelling no, uh throwing a fit, you think I was going, I cannot fit, you think I was going, I cannot fit, you think I was going, I cannot believe that you're raising your voice believe that you're raising your voice believe that you're raising your voice right now. I Are you kidding? You're right now. I Are you kidding? You're right now. I Are you kidding? You're crying at me? Can you like you do you crying at me? Can you like you do you crying at me? Can you like you do you not see all the things I'm doing? No. I not see all the things I'm doing? No. I not see all the things I'm doing? No. I I go, "Oh, he's hungry. He's upset. He's I go, "Oh, he's hungry. He's upset. He's I go, "Oh, he's hungry. He's upset. He's scared. You know, he's he's sleepy. It's scared. You know, he's he's sleepy. It's scared. You know, he's he's sleepy. It's it's his bedtime." It's the same thing. it's his bedtime." It's the same thing. it's his bedtime." It's the same thing. It's the same basic human needs in every It's the same basic human needs in every It's the same basic human needs in every single one of us. It is I will shout it single one of us. It is I will shout it single one of us. It is I will shout it to the rooftop. They are not fighting to the rooftop. They are not fighting to the rooftop. They are not fighting you. They are fighting to feel you. They are fighting to feel you. They are fighting to feel understood by you. And when you can understood by you. And when you can understood by you. And when you can address that understanding by using address that understanding by using address that understanding by using words of repair, everything changes. words of repair, everything changes. words of repair, everything changes. Repair. Validation. Validation is not Repair. Validation. Validation is not Repair. Validation. Validation is not weakness. It is repair. And that that's weakness. It is repair. And that that's weakness. It is repair. And that that's the measure of a true relationship. How the measure of a true relationship. How the measure of a true relationship. How quick can I get to repair? Relationships quick can I get to repair? Relationships quick can I get to repair? Relationships don't fall apart because of one big don't fall apart because of one big don't fall apart because of one big failure. They fall apart because of the failure. They fall apart because of the failure. They fall apart because of the hundred micro moments where repair could hundred micro moments where repair could hundred micro moments where repair could have happened, but it didn't. have happened, but it didn't. have happened, but it didn't. >> Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. These >> Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. These >> Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. These little cracks. little cracks. little cracks. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Fissures. It's the paper cuts that you >> Fissures. It's the paper cuts that you >> Fissures. It's the paper cuts that you go 5 years, 10 years, 30 years, and you go 5 years, 10 years, 30 years, and you go 5 years, 10 years, 30 years, and you look back and go, look back and go, look back and go, >> but there's just been so much. How can I >> but there's just been so much. How can I >> but there's just been so much. How can I possibly address it? There wasn't some possibly address it? There wasn't some possibly address it? There wasn't some big moment. It's all these little big moment. It's all these little big moment. It's all these little moments for repair that you just chose moments for repair that you just chose moments for repair that you just chose to to to >> to go by. That's why every single one is >> to go by. That's why every single one is >> to go by. That's why every single one is is truly important. So when you get is truly important. So when you get is truly important. So when you get dismissive and go really this Oh, here dismissive and go really this Oh, here dismissive and go really this Oh, here we go again. Here she goes. You're just we go again. Here she goes. You're just we go again. Here she goes. You're just you're choosing to not repair and if you you're choosing to not repair and if you you're choosing to not repair and if you understand and sign consign your name to understand and sign consign your name to understand and sign consign your name to a piece of paper that says I'm choosing a piece of paper that says I'm choosing a piece of paper that says I'm choosing my frustration over her piece. Sign your my frustration over her piece. Sign your my frustration over her piece. Sign your name to it. If you can sign that with a name to it. If you can sign that with a name to it. If you can sign that with a straight face and give it to her, straight face and give it to her, straight face and give it to her, >> then congratulations. You've you've lost >> then congratulations. You've you've lost >> then congratulations. You've you've lost the relationship. That's what that's the relationship. That's what that's the relationship. That's what that's what you're doing. You're signing your what you're doing. You're signing your what you're doing. You're signing your name away to the end of it. name away to the end of it. name away to the end of it. >> I wanted to talk a bit about parenting >> I wanted to talk a bit about parenting >> I wanted to talk a bit about parenting because you mentioned it earlier with because you mentioned it earlier with because you mentioned it earlier with estranged family members and things like estranged family members and things like estranged family members and things like that. One of the biggest interactions that. One of the biggest interactions that. One of the biggest interactions people experience with their parents people experience with their parents people experience with their parents >> is feeling judged. So, a lot of the >> is feeling judged. So, a lot of the >> is feeling judged. So, a lot of the communication that parents have if communication that parents have if communication that parents have if people don't have great relationships or people don't have great relationships or people don't have great relationships or even if they do is judgment. like it may even if they do is judgment. like it may even if they do is judgment. like it may even be in their tone. Oh, did you see even be in their tone. Oh, did you see even be in their tone. Oh, did you see what so and so's doing? Like they just, what so and so's doing? Like they just, what so and so's doing? Like they just, you know, got married or they got a new you know, got married or they got a new you know, got married or they got a new promotion or or it may just be like, oh, promotion or or it may just be like, oh, promotion or or it may just be like, oh, are you are you still with that same are you are you still with that same are you are you still with that same guy? Like, are you you know, and it's guy? Like, are you you know, and it's guy? Like, are you you know, and it's >> and I think this feeling of judgment is >> and I think this feeling of judgment is >> and I think this feeling of judgment is the opposite of understanding. When you the opposite of understanding. When you the opposite of understanding. When you judge someone, it's saying, "I already judge someone, it's saying, "I already judge someone, it's saying, "I already know you. know you. know you. >> I I'm already seeing you a certain way, >> I I'm already seeing you a certain way, >> I I'm already seeing you a certain way, and I'm not going to let you show me who and I'm not going to let you show me who and I'm not going to let you show me who you are, you are, you are, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> I'm projecting my viewpoint onto you." >> I'm projecting my viewpoint onto you." >> I'm projecting my viewpoint onto you." So, it's so hard, So, it's so hard, So, it's so hard, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> And people struggle to communicate that >> And people struggle to communicate that >> And people struggle to communicate that with their parents cuz we say things with their parents cuz we say things with their parents cuz we say things like, "Well, will you just leave me to like, "Well, will you just leave me to like, "Well, will you just leave me to do my thing and will you just stop?" do my thing and will you just stop?" do my thing and will you just stop?" Like, you know, and then the parent Like, you know, and then the parent Like, you know, and then the parent goes, "Hey, I'm just trying to look out goes, "Hey, I'm just trying to look out goes, "Hey, I'm just trying to look out for you. I'm trying to do what's best for you. I'm trying to do what's best for you. I'm trying to do what's best for you." And you're like, "Yeah, well, for you." And you're like, "Yeah, well, for you." And you're like, "Yeah, well, how do we set boundaries with people how do we set boundaries with people how do we set boundaries with people that we love and we know love us, but we that we love and we know love us, but we that we love and we know love us, but we can't keep feeling that judgment." can't keep feeling that judgment." can't keep feeling that judgment." >> Different level of boundaries that need >> Different level of boundaries that need >> Different level of boundaries that need to be applied. One is the boundary of to be applied. One is the boundary of to be applied. One is the boundary of time and space. If it's something that's time and space. If it's something that's time and space. If it's something that's really bad, I'm not going to be at the really bad, I'm not going to be at the really bad, I'm not going to be at the family reunion for four hours. I'm going family reunion for four hours. I'm going family reunion for four hours. I'm going to go say hi and leave when I need to to go say hi and leave when I need to to go say hi and leave when I need to leave. leave. leave. >> Distance is okay. >> Distance is okay. >> Distance is okay. >> Yeah, distance is okay if that's what's >> Yeah, distance is okay if that's what's >> Yeah, distance is okay if that's what's required for you. Certain topics of required for you. Certain topics of required for you. Certain topics of conversation not going to be in the conversation not going to be in the conversation not going to be in the cards for you and that's okay. The cards for you and that's okay. The cards for you and that's okay. The second is at least if you can second is at least if you can second is at least if you can acknowledge that for parents now that I acknowledge that for parents now that I acknowledge that for parents now that I am one judgment is a poor way of showing am one judgment is a poor way of showing am one judgment is a poor way of showing love and care. That's that's the deeper love and care. That's that's the deeper love and care. That's that's the deeper rooted feeling rooted feeling rooted feeling >> is I I desperately want to make sure >> is I I desperately want to make sure >> is I I desperately want to make sure you're okay. I desperately you're okay. I desperately you're okay. I desperately >> say that again because that is so good >> say that again because that is so good >> say that again because that is so good >> that judgment is a very poor substitute >> that judgment is a very poor substitute >> that judgment is a very poor substitute for love and care because that's the for love and care because that's the for love and care because that's the deeper need. Well, shouldn't you, you deeper need. Well, shouldn't you, you deeper need. Well, shouldn't you, you know, you you really should do this? You know, you you really should do this? You know, you you really should do this? You really should do, haven't you seen what really should do, haven't you seen what really should do, haven't you seen what so- and so is doing? It's it's deep care so- and so is doing? It's it's deep care so- and so is doing? It's it's deep care for you and how you are. Even though for you and how you are. Even though for you and how you are. Even though it's it's what they would want, it it's it's what they would want, it it's it's what they would want, it doesn't mean that matches what you want. doesn't mean that matches what you want. doesn't mean that matches what you want. And that's that's the major riff right And that's that's the major riff right And that's that's the major riff right there is if you can set aside what there is if you can set aside what there is if you can set aside what they're saying and instead hear the they're saying and instead hear the they're saying and instead hear the value. So let's apply this to the same value. So let's apply this to the same value. So let's apply this to the same framework rather than responding to what framework rather than responding to what framework rather than responding to what we are interpreting as the judgment and we are interpreting as the judgment and we are interpreting as the judgment and instead we respond to the value, the instead we respond to the value, the instead we respond to the value, the need, the care, the love for you, all of need, the care, the love for you, all of need, the care, the love for you, all of a sudden our response becomes different. a sudden our response becomes different. a sudden our response becomes different. So if let's say somebody brings So if let's say somebody brings So if let's say somebody brings something up at a family dinner that you something up at a family dinner that you something up at a family dinner that you know is just it's it's a time bomb. They know is just it's it's a time bomb. They know is just it's it's a time bomb. They just they've now exposed this. Okay, I just they've now exposed this. Okay, I just they've now exposed this. Okay, I guess we're having this conversation. guess we're having this conversation. guess we're having this conversation. Okay, everybody, I guess we're having Okay, everybody, I guess we're having Okay, everybody, I guess we're having this conversation now, right? Instead of this conversation now, right? Instead of this conversation now, right? Instead of that, you use the framework of I can that, you use the framework of I can that, you use the framework of I can tell blank is important to you. And tell blank is important to you. And tell blank is important to you. And insert that blank into whatever category insert that blank into whatever category insert that blank into whatever category you're talking about. I can tell that my you're talking about. I can tell that my you're talking about. I can tell that my well-being is very important to you. I well-being is very important to you. I well-being is very important to you. I can tell that the kids and how I raise can tell that the kids and how I raise can tell that the kids and how I raise the kids is really important to you. I I the kids is really important to you. I I the kids is really important to you. I I can tell that the kids are important to can tell that the kids are important to can tell that the kids are important to you. I can tell that my financial s my you. I can tell that my financial s my you. I can tell that my financial s my security my is important to you and all security my is important to you and all security my is important to you and all of a sudden what they were judging about of a sudden what they were judging about of a sudden what they were judging about kind of goes away. I mean mothers will kind of goes away. I mean mothers will kind of goes away. I mean mothers will worry you to death. They wouldn't be a worry you to death. They wouldn't be a worry you to death. They wouldn't be a mother if they didn't. Yeah. I mean they mother if they didn't. Yeah. I mean they mother if they didn't. Yeah. I mean they wouldn't be doing their job so to speak, wouldn't be doing their job so to speak, wouldn't be doing their job so to speak, right? They they say the the hardest right? They they say the the hardest right? They they say the the hardest thing about parents is is that they had thing about parents is is that they had thing about parents is is that they had parents and maybe wish maybe they wish parents and maybe wish maybe they wish parents and maybe wish maybe they wish deep down that their parents cared. deep down that their parents cared. deep down that their parents cared. They wish their mom or dad had been as They wish their mom or dad had been as They wish their mom or dad had been as invested as they are. Now what what is invested as they are. Now what what is invested as they are. Now what what is different is when that judgment turns to different is when that judgment turns to different is when that judgment turns to demands and turns it sour the demands and turns it sour the demands and turns it sour the relationship instead of them giving you relationship instead of them giving you relationship instead of them giving you the grace to make decisions. I think the grace to make decisions. I think the grace to make decisions. I think part of love of a parent is you have to part of love of a parent is you have to part of love of a parent is you have to allow them to make mistakes. allow them to make mistakes. allow them to make mistakes. >> I mean then then then you do everything >> I mean then then then you do everything >> I mean then then then you do everything else for them. And maybe with parents else for them. And maybe with parents else for them. And maybe with parents it's it's the fear of not being relied it's it's the fear of not being relied it's it's the fear of not being relied upon anymore. I now have to just let upon anymore. I now have to just let upon anymore. I now have to just let this thing float in the water and I I this thing float in the water and I I this thing float in the water and I I can't ever control it again. That's very can't ever control it again. That's very can't ever control it again. That's very scary. Maybe instead of being so upset scary. Maybe instead of being so upset scary. Maybe instead of being so upset about their judgment, you see it as about their judgment, you see it as about their judgment, you see it as something of, well, maybe they're something of, well, maybe they're something of, well, maybe they're feeling they don't know who they are feeling they don't know who they are feeling they don't know who they are anymore without having somebody to take anymore without having somebody to take anymore without having somebody to take care of. And maybe I just need to speak care of. And maybe I just need to speak care of. And maybe I just need to speak to that mom, dad. Hey, thank you for to that mom, dad. Hey, thank you for to that mom, dad. Hey, thank you for everything that you've poured into me. everything that you've poured into me. everything that you've poured into me. and you when you speak to you've done and you when you speak to you've done and you when you speak to you've done everything that you can and I know that everything that you can and I know that everything that you can and I know that you've done the best of you that you can you've done the best of you that you can you've done the best of you that you can imagine the kind of conversations that imagine the kind of conversations that imagine the kind of conversations that can happen because most of the time when can happen because most of the time when can happen because most of the time when they in my experience when parents are they in my experience when parents are they in my experience when parents are nitpicking really what they're asking nitpicking really what they're asking nitpicking really what they're asking for is for you to fulfill the touch that for is for you to fulfill the touch that for is for you to fulfill the touch that deeper connection I'm not doing enough deeper connection I'm not doing enough deeper connection I'm not doing enough for my child for my child for my child >> and so when you can say hey you're a >> and so when you can say hey you're a >> and so when you can say hey you're a good mom hey you're a great dad and good mom hey you're a great dad and good mom hey you're a great dad and remind them of that, I think the remind them of that, I think the remind them of that, I think the conversation's always going to go conversation's always going to go conversation's always going to go better. better. better. >> I love that. And I hear people feeling >> I love that. And I hear people feeling >> I love that. And I hear people feeling like it can just be so exhausting to like it can just be so exhausting to like it can just be so exhausting to have to translate what everyone is have to translate what everyone is have to translate what everyone is saying saying saying >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> in an emotionally mature way and then >> in an emotionally mature way and then >> in an emotionally mature way and then respond to them almost parenting them. respond to them almost parenting them. respond to them almost parenting them. >> Oh, no doubt. >> Oh, no doubt. >> Oh, no doubt. >> But >> But >> But >> yeah, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> what you're saying is true that yes, >> what you're saying is true that yes, >> what you're saying is true that yes, it's exhausting. Yes, it takes time. it's exhausting. Yes, it takes time. it's exhausting. Yes, it takes time. Yes, it takes effort. But what's on the Yes, it takes effort. But what's on the Yes, it takes effort. But what's on the other side is so much more worthy than other side is so much more worthy than other side is so much more worthy than continuing to do what we're all doing continuing to do what we're all doing continuing to do what we're all doing right now, which isn't getting anywhere right now, which isn't getting anywhere right now, which isn't getting anywhere and isn't going anywhere. and isn't going anywhere. and isn't going anywhere. >> Yeah. I I I definitely subscribe to the >> Yeah. I I I definitely subscribe to the >> Yeah. I I I definitely subscribe to the mindset of what is good is worth mindset of what is good is worth mindset of what is good is worth whatever it takes. whatever it takes. whatever it takes. >> And if if it's not, then it's then it's >> And if if it's not, then it's then it's >> And if if it's not, then it's then it's not. You might hear what I said and go, not. You might hear what I said and go, not. You might hear what I said and go, "Look, Jefferson, yeah, more power to "Look, Jefferson, yeah, more power to "Look, Jefferson, yeah, more power to you, man. That sounds exhausting. I you, man. That sounds exhausting. I you, man. That sounds exhausting. I always have to do this with my parents." always have to do this with my parents." always have to do this with my parents." I'm not saying every time. There are I'm not saying every time. There are I'm not saying every time. There are certain times where no, you need to get certain times where no, you need to get certain times where no, you need to get in, get out. in, get out. in, get out. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> They they bring up that topic and my >> They they bring up that topic and my >> They they bring up that topic and my favorite to use is maybe so. favorite to use is maybe so. favorite to use is maybe so. >> I use the phrase maybe so all the time. >> I use the phrase maybe so all the time. >> I use the phrase maybe so all the time. They give me a piece of advice or They give me a piece of advice or They give me a piece of advice or something or you maybe it's a stranger, something or you maybe it's a stranger, something or you maybe it's a stranger, whoever. It's Yeah, maybe so. whoever. It's Yeah, maybe so. whoever. It's Yeah, maybe so. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It has a way of just diffusing >> It has a way of just diffusing >> It has a way of just diffusing everything. You You've acknowledged what everything. You You've acknowledged what everything. You You've acknowledged what they said. You heard it. they said. You heard it. they said. You heard it. >> I didn't argue with it. Say, "Yeah, >> I didn't argue with it. Say, "Yeah, >> I didn't argue with it. Say, "Yeah, maybe so." Yeah. Well, thank you. I maybe so." Yeah. Well, thank you. I maybe so." Yeah. Well, thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah. Maybe appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah. Maybe appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah. Maybe maybe so. It has a way of just diffusing maybe so. It has a way of just diffusing maybe so. It has a way of just diffusing it and now they feel like, "Oh, okay. it and now they feel like, "Oh, okay. it and now they feel like, "Oh, okay. Well, I said what I need to say and then Well, I said what I need to say and then Well, I said what I need to say and then I'm I'm good." I'm I'm good." I'm I'm good." >> Yeah. Yeah. I wish I had that one back >> Yeah. Yeah. I wish I had that one back >> Yeah. Yeah. I wish I had that one back in the day. I remember with my extended in the day. I remember with my extended in the day. I remember with my extended family, they'd always be telling me that family, they'd always be telling me that family, they'd always be telling me that I'd told them I decided to become a I'd told them I decided to become a I'd told them I decided to become a monk. And I'd always hear this. It's the monk. And I'd always hear this. It's the monk. And I'd always hear this. It's the worst decision you're ever going to worst decision you're ever going to worst decision you're ever going to make. It's still, you know, and I and make. It's still, you know, and I and make. It's still, you know, and I and I'd always just say, "You're right. I'd always just say, "You're right. I'd always just say, "You're right. Yeah, probably." Yeah, probably." Yeah, probably." >> But I wish I said maybe. So, it's a good >> But I wish I said maybe. So, it's a good >> But I wish I said maybe. So, it's a good one because I didn't want to agree with one because I didn't want to agree with one because I didn't want to agree with them, but that's all I had in my them, but that's all I had in my them, but that's all I had in my vocabulary then. So, I be like, "Yeah, vocabulary then. So, I be like, "Yeah, vocabulary then. So, I be like, "Yeah, you're right. Maybe you're right. Like, you're right. Maybe you're right. Like, you're right. Maybe you're right. Like, you know, but I like maybe so a lot. you know, but I like maybe so a lot. you know, but I like maybe so a lot. That's That's That's >> Yeah, maybe so always works. I I also >> Yeah, maybe so always works. I I also >> Yeah, maybe so always works. I I also like I'd rather I'd rather hear about like I'd rather I'd rather hear about like I'd rather I'd rather hear about you. you. you. >> Yeah, that's good, too. >> Yeah, that's good, too. >> Yeah, that's good, too. >> I use that one a lot. And uh anytime >> I use that one a lot. And uh anytime >> I use that one a lot. And uh anytime >> the dinner table might turn a little bit >> the dinner table might turn a little bit >> the dinner table might turn a little bit more political. It's like, you know, I'd more political. It's like, you know, I'd more political. It's like, you know, I'd rather hear about you. rather hear about you. rather hear about you. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Nobody ever shies away from talking >> Nobody ever shies away from talking >> Nobody ever shies away from talking about themselves. about themselves. about themselves. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> How do you You talked about sometimes >> How do you You talked about sometimes >> How do you You talked about sometimes distant, sometimes not engaging. How do distant, sometimes not engaging. How do distant, sometimes not engaging. How do you say no without feeling guilty? you say no without feeling guilty? you say no without feeling guilty? Because I think the challenge we have is Because I think the challenge we have is Because I think the challenge we have is a lot of us want to say no, but then we a lot of us want to say no, but then we a lot of us want to say no, but then we feel bad for saying no. We think, "This feel bad for saying no. We think, "This feel bad for saying no. We think, "This person gave me so much. They are trying. person gave me so much. They are trying. person gave me so much. They are trying. They're caring." And then we talk They're caring." And then we talk They're caring." And then we talk ourselves out of it, but then we just ourselves out of it, but then we just ourselves out of it, but then we just walk into a trap almost or walk into a walk into a trap almost or walk into a walk into a trap almost or walk into a and then we go, "Oh, I knew that was and then we go, "Oh, I knew that was and then we go, "Oh, I knew that was going to happen. I should have said no." going to happen. I should have said no." going to happen. I should have said no." So, how do you say no without feeling So, how do you say no without feeling So, how do you say no without feeling guilty? guilty? guilty? >> If you believe that the person truly >> If you believe that the person truly >> If you believe that the person truly cares about your well-being in your cares about your well-being in your cares about your well-being in your life, then they'd want you to say no. if life, then they'd want you to say no. if life, then they'd want you to say no. if you need to say no. you need to say no. you need to say no. Imagine if Imagine if Imagine if that's the relationship you thought you that's the relationship you thought you that's the relationship you thought you had. That they were always worried about had. That they were always worried about had. That they were always worried about your feelings your feelings your feelings that they actually weren't being real that they actually weren't being real that they actually weren't being real with you. And now what kind of with you. And now what kind of with you. And now what kind of relationship is it if you can't be relationship is it if you can't be relationship is it if you can't be authentic enough to actually share your authentic enough to actually share your authentic enough to actually share your your mind? Saying no is is very your mind? Saying no is is very your mind? Saying no is is very difficult depending on the context. No difficult depending on the context. No difficult depending on the context. No doubt. What I strive for when it comes doubt. What I strive for when it comes doubt. What I strive for when it comes to telling people no is to lead with the to telling people no is to lead with the to telling people no is to lead with the no first. Like let's say I needed to no first. Like let's say I needed to no first. Like let's say I needed to invite you to something or let's say you invite you to something or let's say you invite you to something or let's say you needed to invite me to something and needed to invite me to something and needed to invite me to something and what do most people say? Oh my gosh, what do most people say? Oh my gosh, what do most people say? Oh my gosh, thank you so much. I appreciate it. I'd thank you so much. I appreciate it. I'd thank you so much. I appreciate it. I'd love to. Um but I can't. You know, I love to. Um but I can't. You know, I love to. Um but I can't. You know, I have all this stuff. I'm so busy. I have have all this stuff. I'm so busy. I have have all this stuff. I'm so busy. I have what? And you know, it's it's almost what? And you know, it's it's almost what? And you know, it's it's almost like, hey, look, if you couldn't go, like, hey, look, if you couldn't go, like, hey, look, if you couldn't go, just say you couldn't go. I don't need just say you couldn't go. I don't need just say you couldn't go. I don't need all this extra now. It just sounds all this extra now. It just sounds all this extra now. It just sounds inauthentic that you've given me so much inauthentic that you've given me so much inauthentic that you've given me so much >> because why? They were afraid that >> because why? They were afraid that >> because why? They were afraid that you're going to be disappointed by that. you're going to be disappointed by that. you're going to be disappointed by that. Start with the no first. I can't make Start with the no first. I can't make Start with the no first. I can't make it. Thank you for inviting me. I can't it. Thank you for inviting me. I can't it. Thank you for inviting me. I can't make it. Thank you so much. Rather than make it. Thank you so much. Rather than make it. Thank you so much. Rather than I'd love to, but I can't. But as a way I'd love to, but I can't. But as a way I'd love to, but I can't. But as a way of just deleting everything that has of just deleting everything that has of just deleting everything that has come before it. And I feel that if I come before it. And I feel that if I come before it. And I feel that if I need to say no to something in my mind, need to say no to something in my mind, need to say no to something in my mind, it's you want me to say no to this it's you want me to say no to this it's you want me to say no to this because I won't I'm not going to be my because I won't I'm not going to be my because I won't I'm not going to be my I'm not going to be my best. If you I'm not going to be my best. If you I'm not going to be my best. If you really feel uncomfortable about it, then really feel uncomfortable about it, then really feel uncomfortable about it, then say, "I've made a promise to myself of say, "I've made a promise to myself of say, "I've made a promise to myself of X. I've made a promise to myself that X. I've made a promise to myself that X. I've made a promise to myself that I'm going to be home more often. Made a I'm going to be home more often. Made a I'm going to be home more often. Made a promise to myself that I'm going to use promise to myself that I'm going to use promise to myself that I'm going to use this hour to do X, Y, and Z." People this hour to do X, Y, and Z." People this hour to do X, Y, and Z." People don't argue with promises. They don't don't argue with promises. They don't don't argue with promises. They don't want you to break promises, including want you to break promises, including want you to break promises, including promises that you've kept to yourself. promises that you've kept to yourself. promises that you've kept to yourself. And saying no is as easy as just saying And saying no is as easy as just saying And saying no is as easy as just saying no. It's the no because that gets you in no. It's the no because that gets you in no. It's the no because that gets you in trouble. No, it's just, you know, it's trouble. No, it's just, you know, it's trouble. No, it's just, you know, it's because I have to go feed my cat and, because I have to go feed my cat and, because I have to go feed my cat and, you know, I have this plant that I water you know, I have this plant that I water you know, I have this plant that I water and it's you you you give up all these and it's you you you give up all these and it's you you you give up all these excuses that end up diminishing your excuses that end up diminishing your excuses that end up diminishing your your credibility rather than just your credibility rather than just your credibility rather than just saying, "I can't make it. No, no, thank saying, "I can't make it. No, no, thank saying, "I can't make it. No, no, thank you. Not for me. Can't do it." you. Not for me. Can't do it." you. Not for me. Can't do it." Sometimes the kindest thing you can do Sometimes the kindest thing you can do Sometimes the kindest thing you can do is be as direct as you can be. is be as direct as you can be. is be as direct as you can be. >> I agree with you and I had to do that >> I agree with you and I had to do that >> I agree with you and I had to do that recently as well. And you always just recently as well. And you always just recently as well. And you always just don't want to let someone down and you don't want to let someone down and you don't want to let someone down and you don't want to, you know, make them feel don't want to, you know, make them feel don't want to, you know, make them feel bad. And you and you're so right. I I bad. And you and you're so right. I I bad. And you and you're so right. I I always turn to just commitments I've always turn to just commitments I've always turn to just commitments I've made to myself made to myself made to myself >> because I think because it's true and I >> because I think because it's true and I >> because I think because it's true and I think you're right that when you say but think you're right that when you say but think you're right that when you say but it feels like well I love that but this it feels like well I love that but this it feels like well I love that but this is more important. is more important. is more important. >> It's and yeah and and when it's a >> It's and yeah and and when it's a >> It's and yeah and and when it's a promise to yourself it's promise to yourself it's promise to yourself it's >> I'm trying to keep this promise to >> I'm trying to keep this promise to >> I'm trying to keep this promise to myself and everyone knows how hard it is myself and everyone knows how hard it is myself and everyone knows how hard it is to keep promises to yourself. to keep promises to yourself. to keep promises to yourself. >> And they'll encourage you. >> And they'll encourage you. >> And they'll encourage you. >> It's a real commitment. Yeah, it's a >> It's a real commitment. Yeah, it's a >> It's a real commitment. Yeah, it's a real commitment and it's and when it's real commitment and it's and when it's real commitment and it's and when it's genuine, it really lands. What do you do genuine, it really lands. What do you do genuine, it really lands. What do you do when the scenario is you say no and you when the scenario is you say no and you when the scenario is you say no and you do it in the best way possible and do it in the best way possible and do it in the best way possible and someone's upset with you and now you're someone's upset with you and now you're someone's upset with you and now you're towing this line between enabling them towing this line between enabling them towing this line between enabling them to make you say sorry and all this kind to make you say sorry and all this kind to make you say sorry and all this kind of stuff versus holding your standard. of stuff versus holding your standard. of stuff versus holding your standard. So, someone asks you to come to a party So, someone asks you to come to a party So, someone asks you to come to a party or to help them out with something. You or to help them out with something. You or to help them out with something. You say, "No, I can't. say, "No, I can't. say, "No, I can't. >> Kept a promise for myself that trying to >> Kept a promise for myself that trying to >> Kept a promise for myself that trying to spend more time at home. Can't travel." spend more time at home. Can't travel." spend more time at home. Can't travel." >> Now, they try and make you feel bad >> Now, they try and make you feel bad >> Now, they try and make you feel bad about it. And there's someone that you about it. And there's someone that you about it. And there's someone that you consider a real friend and they're not consider a real friend and they're not consider a real friend and they're not even trying to make you feel bad about even trying to make you feel bad about even trying to make you feel bad about it. They are just upset and they're kind it. They are just upset and they're kind it. They are just upset and they're kind of reflecting that back on you. Do you of reflecting that back on you. Do you of reflecting that back on you. Do you do anything? What do you do? do anything? What do you do? do anything? What do you do? >> I'd give it a Russ. Sometimes fires have >> I'd give it a Russ. Sometimes fires have >> I'd give it a Russ. Sometimes fires have to burn out. And if there's if it's a to burn out. And if there's if it's a to burn out. And if there's if it's a true friend, let's say, and they just true friend, let's say, and they just true friend, let's say, and they just send this text of it's this is just like send this text of it's this is just like send this text of it's this is just like you never to come and you just I always you never to come and you just I always you never to come and you just I always invite you. You're always late. And it's invite you. You're always late. And it's invite you. You're always late. And it's let that die out because when they're let that die out because when they're let that die out because when they're disregulated, you become disregulated. disregulated, you become disregulated. disregulated, you become disregulated. And then that's when you start saying And then that's when you start saying And then that's when you start saying things that you don't mean things that you don't mean things that you don't mean >> and saying things that are not going to >> and saying things that are not going to >> and saying things that are not going to help the situation. So give it 5 minutes help the situation. So give it 5 minutes help the situation. So give it 5 minutes before you choose to respond. In fact, before you choose to respond. In fact, before you choose to respond. In fact, if you can wait until the very next day if you can wait until the very next day if you can wait until the very next day because time has a way of sifting things because time has a way of sifting things because time has a way of sifting things out of what you need to respond to and out of what you need to respond to and out of what you need to respond to and you're also giving them some a little you're also giving them some a little you're also giving them some a little bit of grace of saying, "I know they're bit of grace of saying, "I know they're bit of grace of saying, "I know they're upset." Imagine if I instead of getting upset." Imagine if I instead of getting upset." Imagine if I instead of getting upset with you of everything you said, I upset with you of everything you said, I upset with you of everything you said, I looked at it and go, "Man, Jay's looked at it and go, "Man, Jay's looked at it and go, "Man, Jay's stressed out." If they're a true friend, stressed out." If they're a true friend, stressed out." If they're a true friend, hey, I I know you didn't mean that. I hey, I I know you didn't mean that. I hey, I I know you didn't mean that. I know you just you're overwhelmed. You're know you just you're overwhelmed. You're know you just you're overwhelmed. You're overwhelmed. Later on, let's say a day overwhelmed. Later on, let's say a day overwhelmed. Later on, let's say a day passes, two day passes, that's when you passes, two day passes, that's when you passes, two day passes, that's when you need to say, "Your words are not okay need to say, "Your words are not okay need to say, "Your words are not okay with me. What you just sent is below my with me. What you just sent is below my with me. What you just sent is below my standard for response." standard for response." standard for response." >> You need to be able to to tow that line >> You need to be able to to tow that line >> You need to be able to to tow that line of saying that no, I'm not going to I'm of saying that no, I'm not going to I'm of saying that no, I'm not going to I'm not going to accept that kind of not going to accept that kind of not going to accept that kind of behavior. It's okay to be disappointed behavior. It's okay to be disappointed behavior. It's okay to be disappointed and it's not okay to talk to me like and it's not okay to talk to me like and it's not okay to talk to me like that. M that. M that. M >> like you have to be able to to choose in >> like you have to be able to to choose in >> like you have to be able to to choose in conversation, same with boundaries, what conversation, same with boundaries, what conversation, same with boundaries, what am I going to accept, what am I going to am I going to accept, what am I going to am I going to accept, what am I going to say? Absolutely not. say? Absolutely not. say? Absolutely not. >> Absolutely not. It's it's the difference >> Absolutely not. It's it's the difference >> Absolutely not. It's it's the difference of if you were to yell at me or raise of if you were to yell at me or raise of if you were to yell at me or raise your voice at me, if I had no boundary, your voice at me, if I had no boundary, your voice at me, if I had no boundary, it would sound like you can't yell at it would sound like you can't yell at it would sound like you can't yell at me. Really? You think you can yell at me. Really? You think you can yell at me. Really? You think you can yell at you? Who you do you think you know who you? Who you do you think you know who you? Who you do you think you know who you're talking to? You can't yell at me. you're talking to? You can't yell at me. you're talking to? You can't yell at me. Versus if I have boundaries, I say I Versus if I have boundaries, I say I Versus if I have boundaries, I say I don't accept people to speak to me that don't accept people to speak to me that don't accept people to speak to me that way. I don't respond to that volume. Now way. I don't respond to that volume. Now way. I don't respond to that volume. Now it's become a me thing. Nothing that you it's become a me thing. Nothing that you it's become a me thing. Nothing that you can do. And now I' I've controlled I'm can do. And now I' I've controlled I'm can do. And now I' I've controlled I'm controlling the conversation. Now I'm controlling the conversation. Now I'm controlling the conversation. Now I'm taking it back. So if it's a friend, if taking it back. So if it's a friend, if taking it back. So if it's a friend, if it's a true friend, they ought to know it's a true friend, they ought to know it's a true friend, they ought to know what you really meant at that moment. what you really meant at that moment. what you really meant at that moment. And again, this talks about the capacity And again, this talks about the capacity And again, this talks about the capacity for letting somebody show you they're for letting somebody show you they're for letting somebody show you they're messy. messy. messy. >> Yeah. I know for a fact that as soon as >> Yeah. I know for a fact that as soon as >> Yeah. I know for a fact that as soon as I started living by some of this, my I started living by some of this, my I started living by some of this, my life just totally transformed. You just life just totally transformed. You just life just totally transformed. You just and people actually started to respect and people actually started to respect and people actually started to respect at least the ones that love you and are at least the ones that love you and are at least the ones that love you and are actually close to you started to really actually close to you started to really actually close to you started to really respect that honesty and started to respect that honesty and started to respect that honesty and started to really engage with it in a much more really engage with it in a much more really engage with it in a much more meaningful way where they weren't upset meaningful way where they weren't upset meaningful way where they weren't upset when you were honest because they saw when you were honest because they saw when you were honest because they saw you were always honest, you were always honest, you were always honest, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> And you were always real and all of a >> And you were always real and all of a >> And you were always real and all of a sudden it wasn't surprising anymore. sudden it wasn't surprising anymore. sudden it wasn't surprising anymore. Whereas in the beginning when you first Whereas in the beginning when you first Whereas in the beginning when you first start start start >> setting boundaries, people will be like, >> setting boundaries, people will be like, >> setting boundaries, people will be like, "Oh, wait a minute. You used to always "Oh, wait a minute. You used to always "Oh, wait a minute. You used to always be available. now you're not available. be available. now you're not available. be available. now you're not available. >> And and people have this reaction where >> And and people have this reaction where >> And and people have this reaction where like, hey, wait a minute. How do you like, hey, wait a minute. How do you like, hey, wait a minute. How do you have plans on a Saturday night? I'm the have plans on a Saturday night? I'm the have plans on a Saturday night? I'm the one who makes plans for us on a Saturday one who makes plans for us on a Saturday one who makes plans for us on a Saturday night. night. night. >> And then over time, people go, "Oh, >> And then over time, people go, "Oh, >> And then over time, people go, "Oh, yeah, that's just who you are now." And yeah, that's just who you are now." And yeah, that's just who you are now." And I think a lot of us go through these I think a lot of us go through these I think a lot of us go through these >> transitionary moments in our life where >> transitionary moments in our life where >> transitionary moments in our life where >> we go from having no boundaries to >> we go from having no boundaries to >> we go from having no boundaries to having boundaries. We go from having no having boundaries. We go from having no having boundaries. We go from having no standards to having standards. And when standards to having standards. And when standards to having standards. And when you get caught in the middle, people you get caught in the middle, people you get caught in the middle, people always point it out. And it feels really always point it out. And it feels really always point it out. And it feels really painful because you are going from painful because you are going from painful because you are going from someone who was never organized to being someone who was never organized to being someone who was never organized to being organized, organized, organized, >> right? But now over time people tend to >> right? But now over time people tend to >> right? But now over time people tend to respect and forget respect and forget respect and forget >> if someone is upset at your boundary it >> if someone is upset at your boundary it >> if someone is upset at your boundary it doesn't mean that it's wrong. It means doesn't mean that it's wrong. It means doesn't mean that it's wrong. It means that it's working. It's doing the very that it's working. It's doing the very that it's working. It's doing the very thing that you have the boundary in thing that you have the boundary in thing that you have the boundary in place to do that. That discomfort that place to do that. That discomfort that place to do that. That discomfort that you feel welcome. Welcome it because you feel welcome. Welcome it because you feel welcome. Welcome it because that's you choosing to do something that's you choosing to do something that's you choosing to do something different. And always that moment will different. And always that moment will different. And always that moment will pass. Discomfort temporary discomfort pass. Discomfort temporary discomfort pass. Discomfort temporary discomfort for long-term peace. Sign me up. for long-term peace. Sign me up. for long-term peace. Sign me up. >> Yeah. where where can I sign up? >> Yeah. where where can I sign up? >> Yeah. where where can I sign up? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And and if you can understand that those >> And and if you can understand that those >> And and if you can understand that those moments of discomfort get quicker moments of discomfort get quicker moments of discomfort get quicker >> and get quicker and they and all of a >> and get quicker and they and all of a >> and get quicker and they and all of a sudden they become expected and it's not sudden they become expected and it's not sudden they become expected and it's not a bad thing. You you know how many times a bad thing. You you know how many times a bad thing. You you know how many times as an attorney I've heard arguments as an attorney I've heard arguments as an attorney I've heard arguments between two people or I've made between two people or I've made between two people or I've made arguments and it's nothing when it's arguments and it's nothing when it's arguments and it's nothing when it's these huge knockdown dragouts because these huge knockdown dragouts because these huge knockdown dragouts because I've seen a lot of it. It's not like I'm I've seen a lot of it. It's not like I'm I've seen a lot of it. It's not like I'm going to be oh my gosh they're yelling. going to be oh my gosh they're yelling. going to be oh my gosh they're yelling. Oh my god, I'm you know I'm we're in Oh my god, I'm you know I'm we're in Oh my god, I'm you know I'm we're in this argument because you've seen a lot this argument because you've seen a lot this argument because you've seen a lot of it. ER doctors, you know how many of it. ER doctors, you know how many of it. ER doctors, you know how many things they've seen. And then if you things they've seen. And then if you things they've seen. And then if you were to come with a scrape for them, were to come with a scrape for them, were to come with a scrape for them, you're like, "Oh, okay. This is this is you're like, "Oh, okay. This is this is you're like, "Oh, okay. This is this is nothing." The the small things become nothing." The the small things become nothing." The the small things become nothing. And that's what you have to nothing. And that's what you have to nothing. And that's what you have to remember. It's it's it's working a remember. It's it's it's working a remember. It's it's it's working a different muscle. And so whenever you different muscle. And so whenever you different muscle. And so whenever you feel that angst, take it as a sign for feel that angst, take it as a sign for feel that angst, take it as a sign for good that you're choosing to do good that you're choosing to do good that you're choosing to do something different. What when you work something different. What when you work something different. What when you work out and you feel sore, oh, I'm okay. I'm out and you feel sore, oh, I'm okay. I'm out and you feel sore, oh, I'm okay. I'm growing. That's the sore. It's it's you growing. That's the sore. It's it's you growing. That's the sore. It's it's you using a different muscle that's going to using a different muscle that's going to using a different muscle that's going to better your life. better your life. better your life. >> Yeah. Jefferson, I want to switch to the >> Yeah. Jefferson, I want to switch to the >> Yeah. Jefferson, I want to switch to the workplace because I know your expertise workplace because I know your expertise workplace because I know your expertise in the book also goes into that space in the book also goes into that space in the book also goes into that space and I think that's an area where and I think that's an area where and I think that's an area where communication is so challenging on so communication is so challenging on so communication is so challenging on so many different levels because now the many different levels because now the many different levels because now the incentive structure is different. The incentive structure is different. The incentive structure is different. The hierarchy is different. There's all hierarchy is different. There's all hierarchy is different. There's all these rules in place that in one sense these rules in place that in one sense these rules in place that in one sense you don't have in friendships and you don't have in friendships and you don't have in friendships and romantic relationships. If a coworker romantic relationships. If a coworker romantic relationships. If a coworker keeps interrupting you, how do you shut keeps interrupting you, how do you shut keeps interrupting you, how do you shut that down without sounding petty? that down without sounding petty? that down without sounding petty? >> I let them interrupt the first time, >> I let them interrupt the first time, >> I let them interrupt the first time, just the first because we've all seen just the first because we've all seen just the first because we've all seen the people who they interrupt once and the people who they interrupt once and the people who they interrupt once and they say, "Excuse me, I was I was they say, "Excuse me, I was I was they say, "Excuse me, I was I was talking. Excuse me." Yeah, I'm sorry. talking. Excuse me." Yeah, I'm sorry. talking. Excuse me." Yeah, I'm sorry. Where I did you not hear I was talking? Where I did you not hear I was talking? Where I did you not hear I was talking? And everybody in the room goes, "Whoa, And everybody in the room goes, "Whoa, And everybody in the room goes, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Oh, okay. Excuse whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Oh, okay. Excuse whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Oh, okay. Excuse me." I guess you have what? And all of a me." I guess you have what? And all of a me." I guess you have what? And all of a sudden, you become like the diva, right? sudden, you become like the diva, right? sudden, you become like the diva, right? You become the person that oh I cannot You become the person that oh I cannot You become the person that oh I cannot be interrupted. And sometimes more often be interrupted. And sometimes more often be interrupted. And sometimes more often than not the person who interrupted than not the person who interrupted than not the person who interrupted didn't even realize that they were doing didn't even realize that they were doing didn't even realize that they were doing it. It meant no intention whatsoever. it. It meant no intention whatsoever. it. It meant no intention whatsoever. And some of these people are neurode And some of these people are neurode And some of these people are neurode divergent. Some people have ADHD where divergent. Some people have ADHD where divergent. Some people have ADHD where they they it's going to happen. No bad they they it's going to happen. No bad they they it's going to happen. No bad intention behind it. And if I just let intention behind it. And if I just let intention behind it. And if I just let it happen and let them go on, let it happen and let them go on, let it happen and let them go on, let anybody who interrupted, no matter what, anybody who interrupted, no matter what, anybody who interrupted, no matter what, be able to say what they need to say, be able to say what they need to say, be able to say what they need to say, then I start again. Why? Because if they then I start again. Why? Because if they then I start again. Why? Because if they were interrupting me, they weren't going were interrupting me, they weren't going were interrupting me, they weren't going to listen to me anyway. to listen to me anyway. to listen to me anyway. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> They weren't listening anyway. They were >> They weren't listening anyway. They were >> They weren't listening anyway. They were only thinking about what they had to only thinking about what they had to only thinking about what they had to say. Now, let them get it out and get it say. Now, let them get it out and get it say. Now, let them get it out and get it all out and show that I have some all out and show that I have some all out and show that I have some maturity, that I don't have to be first. maturity, that I don't have to be first. maturity, that I don't have to be first. I don't have to have the spotlight right I don't have to have the spotlight right I don't have to have the spotlight right in that moment. So after that first in that moment. So after that first in that moment. So after that first interruption, then I start over again interruption, then I start over again interruption, then I start over again exactly where I left off. exactly where I left off. exactly where I left off. >> It's not like a okay, I guess, thank you >> It's not like a okay, I guess, thank you >> It's not like a okay, I guess, thank you like that dismissive passive aggressive. like that dismissive passive aggressive. like that dismissive passive aggressive. It's start exactly where It's start exactly where It's start exactly where >> you were. And if they interrupt again, >> you were. And if they interrupt again, >> you were. And if they interrupt again, >> if they interrupt again, that's where I >> if they interrupt again, that's where I >> if they interrupt again, that's where I say, say, say, >> "I can't hear you when you interrupt me. >> "I can't hear you when you interrupt me. >> "I can't hear you when you interrupt me. I can't hear you when you interrupt me." I can't hear you when you interrupt me." I can't hear you when you interrupt me." I do the same thing with my kids. I I do the same thing with my kids. I I do the same thing with my kids. I can't hear you when you're whining. all can't hear you when you're whining. all can't hear you when you're whining. all of a sudden their voice changes every of a sudden their voice changes every of a sudden their voice changes every time. You know, it's every time it's if time. You know, it's every time it's if time. You know, it's every time it's if it sends the signal if you want me to it sends the signal if you want me to it sends the signal if you want me to listen, there has to be some rules in listen, there has to be some rules in listen, there has to be some rules in place. place. place. >> And so the I can't hear you when you >> And so the I can't hear you when you >> And so the I can't hear you when you interrupt me. The I've also used I will interrupt me. The I've also used I will interrupt me. The I've also used I will listen to you when I'm finished. If you listen to you when I'm finished. If you listen to you when I'm finished. If you want me to hear you, you need to let me want me to hear you, you need to let me want me to hear you, you need to let me finish. finish. finish. >> It's it's me putting a an if then. It's >> It's it's me putting a an if then. It's >> It's it's me putting a an if then. It's a condition. It's logic. If you want me a condition. It's logic. If you want me a condition. It's logic. If you want me to listen to you, then you need to let to listen to you, then you need to let to listen to you, then you need to let me finish. And so, in order to get to me finish. And so, in order to get to me finish. And so, in order to get to what they want, they have to abide by what they want, they have to abide by what they want, they have to abide by the rules. the rules. the rules. >> Yeah. What are the mistakes we make in >> Yeah. What are the mistakes we make in >> Yeah. What are the mistakes we make in the workplace the workplace the workplace that in our communication that make that in our communication that make that in our communication that make people respect us less? people respect us less? people respect us less? >> Overexplaining. We say way too much. We >> Overexplaining. We say way too much. We >> Overexplaining. We say way too much. We say everything. We say the things you say everything. We say the things you say everything. We say the things you never asked for. We just keep going and never asked for. We just keep going and never asked for. We just keep going and we can't we we can't stop. We don't know we can't we we can't stop. We don't know we can't we we can't stop. We don't know why. You might have asked a simple why. You might have asked a simple why. You might have asked a simple question and all of a sudden next thing question and all of a sudden next thing question and all of a sudden next thing you know they're telling you everything you know they're telling you everything you know they're telling you everything probably sometimes way too personal and probably sometimes way too personal and probably sometimes way too personal and they realize I can't stop. they realize I can't stop. they realize I can't stop. Overexplaining has a way of diminishing Overexplaining has a way of diminishing Overexplaining has a way of diminishing not only your control but also your not only your control but also your not only your control but also your confidence confidence confidence >> where you've got out that conversation >> where you've got out that conversation >> where you've got out that conversation you go oh my gosh I just said way too you go oh my gosh I just said way too you go oh my gosh I just said way too much. Why did I say so much? It's much. Why did I say so much? It's much. Why did I say so much? It's because it's a it's a deeply rooted fear because it's a it's a deeply rooted fear because it's a it's a deeply rooted fear that you're not enough to be believed. that you're not enough to be believed. that you're not enough to be believed. So I have to overexlain. I have to say So I have to overexlain. I have to say So I have to overexlain. I have to say more so that you believe me more. So more so that you believe me more. So more so that you believe me more. So that you see how smart I am, that I do that you see how smart I am, that I do that you see how smart I am, that I do know what I'm talking about. That's why know what I'm talking about. That's why know what I'm talking about. That's why some people name drop so that you know some people name drop so that you know some people name drop so that you know that I'm important and I'm special and I that I'm important and I'm special and I that I'm important and I'm special and I and I'm worth uh this this job versus and I'm worth uh this this job versus and I'm worth uh this this job versus only saying what you need to say. Over only saying what you need to say. Over only saying what you need to say. Over explaining kills the confidence. What I explaining kills the confidence. What I explaining kills the confidence. What I say is rather than being a waterfall, be say is rather than being a waterfall, be say is rather than being a waterfall, be a well. Rather than trying to overexlain a well. Rather than trying to overexlain a well. Rather than trying to overexlain and say all the things at all the time, and say all the things at all the time, and say all the things at all the time, you just hold the knowledge and you just hold the knowledge and you just hold the knowledge and confidence of your own information and confidence of your own information and confidence of your own information and people will come to you and ask people will come to you and ask people will come to you and ask questions when they're ready. The questions when they're ready. The questions when they're ready. The overexlaining is a sure way of showing overexlaining is a sure way of showing overexlaining is a sure way of showing that you're not somebody that can really that you're not somebody that can really that you're not somebody that can really be relied on in that moment, especially be relied on in that moment, especially be relied on in that moment, especially when quick decisions, hard decisions when quick decisions, hard decisions when quick decisions, hard decisions need to be made. need to be made. need to be made. >> Well said. I like how when you're >> Well said. I like how when you're >> Well said. I like how when you're sharing these examples, there's a sharing these examples, there's a sharing these examples, there's a layering process almost like there's a layering process almost like there's a layering process almost like there's a step one step one step one >> and if that doesn't work then there's a >> and if that doesn't work then there's a >> and if that doesn't work then there's a step two and if that doesn't work then step two and if that doesn't work then step two and if that doesn't work then there's a step three. It's like there's there's a step three. It's like there's there's a step three. It's like there's degrees rather than like degrees rather than like degrees rather than like >> this is the right way and this is the >> this is the right way and this is the >> this is the right way and this is the wrong way. It's almost like it feels wrong way. It's almost like it feels wrong way. It's almost like it feels like there's an escalation like there's an escalation like there's an escalation >> and that's important because I think >> and that's important because I think >> and that's important because I think >> not everyone who looks like they're >> not everyone who looks like they're >> not everyone who looks like they're against you is truly against you. And against you is truly against you. And against you is truly against you. And you know in our mind we can often you know in our mind we can often you know in our mind we can often portray people in a certain way. I read portray people in a certain way. I read portray people in a certain way. I read something recently which I loved. It's something recently which I loved. It's something recently which I loved. It's called Hanland's razor where he said called Hanland's razor where he said called Hanland's razor where he said that don't attribute to malice what can that don't attribute to malice what can that don't attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by stupidity. adequately be explained by stupidity. adequately be explained by stupidity. >> And I love it. It's so good. It's so >> And I love it. It's so good. It's so >> And I love it. It's so good. It's so good. And it's like yeah like sometimes good. And it's like yeah like sometimes good. And it's like yeah like sometimes it's um you know I was thinking about it it's um you know I was thinking about it it's um you know I was thinking about it as like you know all the people that you as like you know all the people that you as like you know all the people that you think are stabbing you in the back. think are stabbing you in the back. think are stabbing you in the back. They're just clumsy elbows. They're just clumsy elbows. They're just clumsy elbows. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Like it's just the idea. Yeah. most of >> Like it's just the idea. Yeah. most of >> Like it's just the idea. Yeah. most of the time. And of course, there are the time. And of course, there are the time. And of course, there are certain certain certain >> cases some marsh pit. Yeah. That's >> cases some marsh pit. Yeah. That's >> cases some marsh pit. Yeah. That's >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But like and it's like >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But like and it's like >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But like and it's like when you start giving when you start giving when you start giving >> when you stop thinking that everyone's >> when you stop thinking that everyone's >> when you stop thinking that everyone's against you and trying to stab you in against you and trying to stab you in against you and trying to stab you in the back, the back, the back, >> then you actually operate better as >> then you actually operate better as >> then you actually operate better as well. You can actually respond better as well. You can actually respond better as well. You can actually respond better as well. You can actually you can control well. You can actually you can control well. You can actually you can control the situation better because now you're the situation better because now you're the situation better because now you're not coming at a reaction. Two sides of not coming at a reaction. Two sides of not coming at a reaction. Two sides of this question. How do people advocate this question. How do people advocate this question. How do people advocate for themselves in the workplace for themselves in the workplace for themselves in the workplace confidently? How do you communicate in a confidently? How do you communicate in a confidently? How do you communicate in a way that you can do that? And on the way that you can do that? And on the way that you can do that? And on the other side, how do leaders communicate other side, how do leaders communicate other side, how do leaders communicate standards and feedback effectively so standards and feedback effectively so standards and feedback effectively so that people know what how they should that people know what how they should that people know what how they should grow? grow? grow? >> First would be to understand that most >> First would be to understand that most >> First would be to understand that most likely the person that you've talking likely the person that you've talking likely the person that you've talking that you're talking to has been where that you're talking to has been where that you're talking to has been where you've been. And we turn it into an us you've been. And we turn it into an us you've been. And we turn it into an us versus them. When I was a a young versus them. When I was a a young versus them. When I was a a young associate at the law firm that I was at, associate at the law firm that I was at, associate at the law firm that I was at, we would complain about the partners. we would complain about the partners. we would complain about the partners. We'd say these partners don't appreciate We'd say these partners don't appreciate We'd say these partners don't appreciate the us. They don't care. They don't the us. They don't care. They don't the us. They don't care. They don't understand. When I became a partner, the understand. When I became a partner, the understand. When I became a partner, the first email I got from an associate, I first email I got from an associate, I first email I got from an associate, I was like, these associates, they don't. was like, these associates, they don't. was like, these associates, they don't. They don't get the problems of a They don't get the problems of a They don't get the problems of a partner. We turn it into us versus them. partner. We turn it into us versus them. partner. We turn it into us versus them. The employer says these employees don't The employer says these employees don't The employer says these employees don't understand. Employees say management understand. Employees say management understand. Employees say management doesn't understand. When we don't stop doesn't understand. When we don't stop doesn't understand. When we don't stop to think that they have the same to think that they have the same to think that they have the same concerns, they're just as human and concerns, they're just as human and concerns, they're just as human and fallible as us. So if you need to fallible as us. So if you need to fallible as us. So if you need to advocate for yourself, it helps to be a advocate for yourself, it helps to be a advocate for yourself, it helps to be a student to have a a learner's mindset. student to have a a learner's mindset. student to have a a learner's mindset. So if I have to bring something to you So if I have to bring something to you So if I have to bring something to you rather than me sitting down go, okay, rather than me sitting down go, okay, rather than me sitting down go, okay, listen, I I'm not being paid near enough listen, I I'm not being paid near enough listen, I I'm not being paid near enough to be around here and deal with all this to be around here and deal with all this to be around here and deal with all this instead of that because from the instead of that because from the instead of that because from the management perspective, all they're management perspective, all they're management perspective, all they're thinking is, okay, I are they leaving? thinking is, okay, I are they leaving? thinking is, okay, I are they leaving? They're out the door. Okay, what does They're out the door. Okay, what does They're out the door. Okay, what does that cost? What does that do to that cost? What does that do to that cost? What does that do to overhead? What does that how is that overhead? What does that how is that overhead? What does that how is that going to affect my business? all the going to affect my business? all the going to affect my business? all the fears that they have deep within them of fears that they have deep within them of fears that they have deep within them of what that's going to do to their to what that's going to do to their to what that's going to do to their to their life. Same thing with the their life. Same thing with the their life. Same thing with the employee. They're feeling employee. They're feeling employee. They're feeling >> everybody's saying, "I want my ball and >> everybody's saying, "I want my ball and >> everybody's saying, "I want my ball and I'm I'm protecting me and mine in those I'm I'm protecting me and mine in those I'm I'm protecting me and mine in those kind of moments." But if I were to sit kind of moments." But if I were to sit kind of moments." But if I were to sit down and say when you were in my shoes, down and say when you were in my shoes, down and say when you were in my shoes, what did you find to be the best way of what did you find to be the best way of what did you find to be the best way of getting a higher salary or getting to getting a higher salary or getting to getting a higher salary or getting to your position or finding how did you your position or finding how did you your position or finding how did you find that you'd be more respected in find that you'd be more respected in find that you'd be more respected in this? People love to be asked for this? People love to be asked for this? People love to be asked for advice. advice. advice. >> Some people make podcasts about them, >> Some people make podcasts about them, >> Some people make podcasts about them, you know, like it's it's but it's true. you know, like it's it's but it's true. you know, like it's it's but it's true. If you can go to your superior and say, If you can go to your superior and say, If you can go to your superior and say, "I need your advice. "I need your advice. "I need your advice. and then talk about the very thing and then talk about the very thing and then talk about the very thing without using your name or use your name without using your name or use your name without using your name or use your name that's fine of what you're dealing with that's fine of what you're dealing with that's fine of what you're dealing with all of a sudden it removes the sense of all of a sudden it removes the sense of all of a sudden it removes the sense of oh no what is this going to do and oh no what is this going to do and oh no what is this going to do and they're going to start thinking a they're going to start thinking a they're going to start thinking a thousand miles away now the fear is on thousand miles away now the fear is on thousand miles away now the fear is on but if I were to ask what did you find but if I were to ask what did you find but if I were to ask what did you find to be the best way to do x y and z when to be the best way to do x y and z when to be the best way to do x y and z when somebody you know when somebody sent you somebody you know when somebody sent you somebody you know when somebody sent you a rude email how did you handle that and a rude email how did you handle that and a rude email how did you handle that and what it does is actually create bond what it does is actually create bond what it does is actually create bond between you two and remembering hey both between you two and remembering hey both between you two and remembering hey both of you are human. of you are human. of you are human. >> When it comes to leadership, what I like >> When it comes to leadership, what I like >> When it comes to leadership, what I like to say is good leaders respond to to say is good leaders respond to to say is good leaders respond to conversation. Great leaders make room conversation. Great leaders make room conversation. Great leaders make room for it. for it. for it. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> When I can encourage the difficult >> When I can encourage the difficult >> When I can encourage the difficult conversation in any organization that I conversation in any organization that I conversation in any organization that I go and talk to, I go and touch, I go and go and talk to, I go and touch, I go and go and talk to, I go and touch, I go and teach and train, teach and train, teach and train, the better that organization is going to the better that organization is going to the better that organization is going to be. Most of the time communication is be. Most of the time communication is be. Most of the time communication is they have no goal, no system, they have no goal, no system, they have no goal, no system, >> no values in terms of how do we want to >> no values in terms of how do we want to >> no values in terms of how do we want to communicate to each other. communicate to each other. communicate to each other. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> You know, there's there's a difference >> You know, there's there's a difference >> You know, there's there's a difference between one restaurant that might just between one restaurant that might just between one restaurant that might just say thank you when they give you your say thank you when they give you your say thank you when they give you your food and the other says my pleasure. food and the other says my pleasure. food and the other says my pleasure. >> Right. There's there's a difference in >> Right. There's there's a difference in >> Right. There's there's a difference in and every little word nuance that you and every little word nuance that you and every little word nuance that you have when you can say what's our shared have when you can say what's our shared have when you can say what's our shared vocabulary vocabulary vocabulary >> and that's leadership and how we're >> and that's leadership and how we're >> and that's leadership and how we're going to communicate why because we've going to communicate why because we've going to communicate why because we've set the value and standard of how we set the value and standard of how we set the value and standard of how we want to be not only to the world and the want to be not only to the world and the want to be not only to the world and the outside but also within ourselves. So, outside but also within ourselves. So, outside but also within ourselves. So, am I really caring about you or am I am I really caring about you or am I am I really caring about you or am I just, hey, thanks for the email. just, hey, thanks for the email. just, hey, thanks for the email. >> Like, that's ultimately why I left my >> Like, that's ultimately why I left my >> Like, that's ultimately why I left my first law firm is I I was helping first law firm is I I was helping first law firm is I I was helping clients that were nice and great, clients that were nice and great, clients that were nice and great, >> but there was really no >> but there was really no >> but there was really no >> connection. It was just a file to them. >> connection. It was just a file to them. >> connection. It was just a file to them. And that that became where eventually And that that became where eventually And that that became where eventually the bill comes due and it's just yeah, the bill comes due and it's just yeah, the bill comes due and it's just yeah, you just you're left empty-handed. So you just you're left empty-handed. So you just you're left empty-handed. So it's creating the atmosphere to have it's creating the atmosphere to have it's creating the atmosphere to have difficult conversations and realizing difficult conversations and realizing difficult conversations and realizing that every opportunity to have a that every opportunity to have a that every opportunity to have a difficult conversation, everybody should difficult conversation, everybody should difficult conversation, everybody should be cheering. be cheering. be cheering. >> Everybody there should be some >> Everybody there should be some >> Everybody there should be some celebration and some confetti when you celebration and some confetti when you celebration and some confetti when you say this is a chance for us to grow. say this is a chance for us to grow. say this is a chance for us to grow. Yeah, this is a chance for us to to Yeah, this is a chance for us to to Yeah, this is a chance for us to to better it because we're okay with if and better it because we're okay with if and better it because we're okay with if and like in sports or in business they the like in sports or in business they the like in sports or in business they the great leaders would say you embrace your great leaders would say you embrace your great leaders would say you embrace your failures because it's the failures are failures because it's the failures are failures because it's the failures are the things that are going to ultimately the things that are going to ultimately the things that are going to ultimately lead you to success. But we don't lead you to success. But we don't lead you to success. But we don't >> we don't do that with communication and >> we don't do that with communication and >> we don't do that with communication and difficult conversations but that's difficult conversations but that's difficult conversations but that's exactly it's exactly what it is. exactly it's exactly what it is. exactly it's exactly what it is. >> Jefferson I was already a fan and I'm a >> Jefferson I was already a fan and I'm a >> Jefferson I was already a fan and I'm a bigger fan after today. Truly bigger fan after today. Truly bigger fan after today. Truly absolutely brilliant. Such great advice. absolutely brilliant. Such great advice. absolutely brilliant. Such great advice. Just truly so practical and real and Just truly so practical and real and Just truly so practical and real and grounded. And I truly can't wait for grounded. And I truly can't wait for grounded. And I truly can't wait for people to get the book, The Next people to get the book, The Next people to get the book, The Next Conversation, Argue Less, Talk More. I Conversation, Argue Less, Talk More. I Conversation, Argue Less, Talk More. I really feel that this is like right at really feel that this is like right at really feel that this is like right at the core of so many of life's the core of so many of life's the core of so many of life's challenges. Like you could potentially challenges. Like you could potentially challenges. Like you could potentially you could argue that every challenge we you could argue that every challenge we you could argue that every challenge we go through on a daily basis is a go through on a daily basis is a go through on a daily basis is a communication issue. communication issue. communication issue. >> And I really believe that this is the >> And I really believe that this is the >> And I really believe that this is the book that has the answers. and so book that has the answers. and so book that has the answers. and so grateful that you showed up today and grateful that you showed up today and grateful that you showed up today and just shared so much amazing insight. Uh just shared so much amazing insight. Uh just shared so much amazing insight. Uh we end every episode with a final five. we end every episode with a final five. we end every episode with a final five. These have to be questions that are These have to be questions that are These have to be questions that are answered in one word to one sentence answered in one word to one sentence answered in one word to one sentence maximum. So most people take one maximum. So most people take one maximum. So most people take one sentence. No one ever does it in one sentence. No one ever does it in one sentence. No one ever does it in one word. word. word. >> So Jefferson Fisher, these are your >> So Jefferson Fisher, these are your >> So Jefferson Fisher, these are your final five. Okay. final five. Okay. final five. Okay. >> The first question is, what is the best >> The first question is, what is the best >> The first question is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received? advice you've ever heard or received? advice you've ever heard or received? >> You can't look back and ho a straight >> You can't look back and ho a straight >> You can't look back and ho a straight row. row. row. It's like when you're gardening or you It's like when you're gardening or you It's like when you're gardening or you can't you you can't look back and also can't you you can't look back and also can't you you can't look back and also >> create a it's it's like saying you you >> create a it's it's like saying you you >> create a it's it's like saying you you can't drive a boat by staring at the can't drive a boat by staring at the can't drive a boat by staring at the wake. You can't look back. wake. You can't look back. wake. You can't look back. >> Yeah. Well said. Uh second question. >> Yeah. Well said. Uh second question. >> Yeah. Well said. Uh second question. What is the worst advice you've ever What is the worst advice you've ever What is the worst advice you've ever heard or received? heard or received? heard or received? >> Saying nice things will serve you well. >> Saying nice things will serve you well. >> Saying nice things will serve you well. >> Being playing nice will serve you well. >> Being playing nice will serve you well. >> Being playing nice will serve you well. Because if you say that nice serves you Because if you say that nice serves you Because if you say that nice serves you well, what ends up happening is that you well, what ends up happening is that you well, what ends up happening is that you eventually end up serving it. eventually end up serving it. eventually end up serving it. >> You people please. You say the nice >> You people please. You say the nice >> You people please. You say the nice thing at the expense of of being real. thing at the expense of of being real. thing at the expense of of being real. >> Yeah. Question number three. What is the >> Yeah. Question number three. What is the >> Yeah. Question number three. What is the difference between being real and being difference between being real and being difference between being real and being harsh? harsh? harsh? >> My intention for your ultimate good. M >> My intention for your ultimate good. M >> My intention for your ultimate good. M >> if I truly want the best for you, then >> if I truly want the best for you, then >> if I truly want the best for you, then I'm going to be okay with saying the I'm going to be okay with saying the I'm going to be okay with saying the harsh thing cuz I won't regret it. harsh thing cuz I won't regret it. harsh thing cuz I won't regret it. >> But I will regret saying the thing that >> But I will regret saying the thing that >> But I will regret saying the thing that isn't as real as it should be. isn't as real as it should be. isn't as real as it should be. >> Yeah. And it all comes down to >> Yeah. And it all comes down to >> Yeah. And it all comes down to intention. intention. intention. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Sometimes we say we're being real, but >> Sometimes we say we're being real, but >> Sometimes we say we're being real, but really we're just being harsh. Like we really we're just being harsh. Like we really we're just being harsh. Like we just don't really care just don't really care just don't really care >> and it comes across harsh and someone's >> and it comes across harsh and someone's >> and it comes across harsh and someone's like, "That's a bit harsh." And like, like, "That's a bit harsh." And like, like, "That's a bit harsh." And like, well, I'm just being real. well, I'm just being real. well, I'm just being real. >> Yes. They could use as a mask. >> Yes. They could use as a mask. >> Yes. They could use as a mask. >> Yes. Exactly. >> Yes. Exactly. >> Yes. Exactly. >> Yeah. They use it as a mask of Wayne, >> Yeah. They use it as a mask of Wayne, >> Yeah. They use it as a mask of Wayne, well, this is just who I am. I'm just, well, this is just who I am. I'm just, well, this is just who I am. I'm just, you know, you can take it or or leave you know, you can take it or or leave you know, you can take it or or leave it. But really, it's when you're harsh, it. But really, it's when you're harsh, it. But really, it's when you're harsh, it's most of the time you're just being it's most of the time you're just being it's most of the time you're just being lazy with your words. lazy with your words. lazy with your words. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know, you're being lazy with other >> You know, you're being lazy with other >> You know, you're being lazy with other people's feelings, including your own. people's feelings, including your own. people's feelings, including your own. Like, you should have enough intention Like, you should have enough intention Like, you should have enough intention behind it of caring about how you behind it of caring about how you behind it of caring about how you package it. If I were to give you a gift package it. If I were to give you a gift package it. If I were to give you a gift >> and it still has the receipt and I just >> and it still has the receipt and I just >> and it still has the receipt and I just hear you have it versus me actually hear you have it versus me actually hear you have it versus me actually caring about the package, I'm putting caring about the package, I'm putting caring about the package, I'm putting intention that I really care about you intention that I really care about you intention that I really care about you and how things are delivered. and how things are delivered. and how things are delivered. >> Yeah, absolutely. Question number four. >> Yeah, absolutely. Question number four. >> Yeah, absolutely. Question number four. I'm intrigued. What's your favorite word I'm intrigued. What's your favorite word I'm intrigued. What's your favorite word in the English language? in the English language? in the English language? >> Genuine. It's to me it it brings up just >> Genuine. It's to me it it brings up just >> Genuine. It's to me it it brings up just playing baseball and it says genuine playing baseball and it says genuine playing baseball and it says genuine leather in the poem of like is real. leather in the poem of like is real. leather in the poem of like is real. This is what I have. This is who I am. This is what I have. This is who I am. This is what I have. This is who I am. There's a there's a sense of There's a there's a sense of There's a there's a sense of >> soul and earthiness to it >> soul and earthiness to it >> soul and earthiness to it >> of when I know when somebody's being >> of when I know when somebody's being >> of when I know when somebody's being genuine and and real with me genuine and and real with me genuine and and real with me >> and that somebody it's like a good pair >> and that somebody it's like a good pair >> and that somebody it's like a good pair of jeans, you know? You just know I can of jeans, you know? You just know I can of jeans, you know? You just know I can rely on and depend on it. rely on and depend on it. rely on and depend on it. >> That's a great answer. Uh fifth and >> That's a great answer. Uh fifth and >> That's a great answer. Uh fifth and final question. We ask this to every final question. We ask this to every final question. We ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show. If guest who's ever been on the show. If guest who's ever been on the show. If you could create one law that everyone you could create one law that everyone you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would in the world had to follow, what would in the world had to follow, what would it be? it be? it be? >> Talk more. >> Talk more. >> Talk more. argue less. argue less. argue less. >> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I I >> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I I >> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I I I stand by this very real understanding I stand by this very real understanding I stand by this very real understanding that one day we're going to have a that one day we're going to have a that one day we're going to have a conversation. You're going to have a conversation. You're going to have a conversation. You're going to have a conversation. I'm going to have a conversation. I'm going to have a conversation. I'm going to have a conversation with somebody that we love conversation with somebody that we love conversation with somebody that we love and it'll be the last one we ever get and it'll be the last one we ever get and it'll be the last one we ever get with them and we won't know it. with them and we won't know it. with them and we won't know it. So, you need to say the thing, talk like So, you need to say the thing, talk like So, you need to say the thing, talk like today matters because it does. So you today matters because it does. So you today matters because it does. So you need to talk more. Relationships don't need to talk more. Relationships don't need to talk more. Relationships don't fall apart usually over what was said. fall apart usually over what was said. fall apart usually over what was said. It's over what was not said. It's over what was not said. It's over what was not said. >> Same thing with businesses. It's >> Same thing with businesses. It's >> Same thing with businesses. It's misalignment doesn't happen because of misalignment doesn't happen because of misalignment doesn't happen because of one big moment. It happens in a thousand one big moment. It happens in a thousand one big moment. It happens in a thousand conversations that didn't. And so when conversations that didn't. And so when conversations that didn't. And so when you can talk more and reach more and you can talk more and reach more and you can talk more and reach more and understand more, the better it's going understand more, the better it's going understand more, the better it's going to be. to be. to be. >> It's a great answer. Jefferson Fischer, >> It's a great answer. Jefferson Fischer, >> It's a great answer. Jefferson Fischer, the book is called The Next the book is called The Next the book is called The Next Conversation. and everyone who's been Conversation. and everyone who's been Conversation. and everyone who's been listening and watching, please tag me listening and watching, please tag me listening and watching, please tag me and Jefferson with the communication tip and Jefferson with the communication tip and Jefferson with the communication tip insight that you're going to use this insight that you're going to use this insight that you're going to use this week. I want you to actually try and week. I want you to actually try and week. I want you to actually try and practice this whether it's at work, practice this whether it's at work, practice this whether it's at work, whether it's with your partner, whether whether it's with your partner, whether whether it's with your partner, whether it's with a parent, whether it's with a it's with a parent, whether it's with a it's with a parent, whether it's with a friend. Try and start practicing these friend. Try and start practicing these friend. Try and start practicing these tools this week because you'll actually tools this week because you'll actually tools this week because you'll actually see the difference and then you'll be see the difference and then you'll be see the difference and then you'll be focused and engaged to learn more. focused and engaged to learn more. focused and engaged to learn more. Follow Jefferson on Instagram and Tik Follow Jefferson on Instagram and Tik Follow Jefferson on Instagram and Tik Tok if you don't already. and Jefferson, Tok if you don't already. and Jefferson, Tok if you don't already. and Jefferson, I hope this is the first of many times I hope this is the first of many times I hope this is the first of many times you come on the show. Same here. Uh you come on the show. Same here. Uh you come on the show. Same here. Uh truly so grateful to get to know you truly so grateful to get to know you truly so grateful to get to know you today and congrats on everything and today and congrats on everything and today and congrats on everything and truly your your insight's going to truly your your insight's going to truly your your insight's going to change a lot of lives. So, thank you so change a lot of lives. So, thank you so change a lot of lives. So, thank you so much. much. much. >> I appreciate that, Jay. It's been it's >> I appreciate that, Jay. It's been it's >> I appreciate that, Jay. It's been it's been a blessing to get to talk to you, been a blessing to get to talk to you, been a blessing to get to talk to you, man. man. man. >> Thank you, man. If you enjoyed this >> Thank you, man. If you enjoyed this >> Thank you, man. If you enjoyed this conversation, you'll love my episode conversation, you'll love my episode conversation, you'll love my episode with the world's leading relationship with the world's leading relationship with the world's leading relationship therapist, Esther Prell, where we talk therapist, Esther Prell, where we talk therapist, Esther Prell, where we talk about why your ego is ruining your about why your ego is ruining your about why your ego is ruining your relationships and how to date more relationships and how to date more relationships and how to date more effectively. I think we need to effectively. I think we need to effectively. I think we need to differentiate.