RELATIONSHIP EXPERT: The #1 Sign of Anxious Attachment (& How to Fix It!)

Hey everyone, welcome back to OnPurpose. Hey everyone, welcome back to OnPurpose. Today my guest is Tais Gibson, the Today my guest is Tais Gibson, the Today my guest is Tais Gibson, the founder of the personal development founder of the personal development founder of the personal development school and the creator of the new school and the creator of the new school and the creator of the new attachment theory, integrated attachment attachment theory, integrated attachment attachment theory, integrated attachment theory. Being a leading expert in the theory. Being a leading expert in the theory. Being a leading expert in the space, she helps people understand their space, she helps people understand their space, she helps people understand their relationship patterns, heal core wounds, relationship patterns, heal core wounds, relationship patterns, heal core wounds, and build secure lasting love. In Tais's and build secure lasting love. In Tais's and build secure lasting love. In Tais's book, The New Attachment Theory: Heal book, The New Attachment Theory: Heal book, The New Attachment Theory: Heal Every Relationship by Rewiring Your Every Relationship by Rewiring Your Every Relationship by Rewiring Your Brain and Nervous System, she shares Brain and Nervous System, she shares Brain and Nervous System, she shares practical tools to change the patterns practical tools to change the patterns practical tools to change the patterns that shape how we connect. Ta Gibson, that shape how we connect. Ta Gibson, that shape how we connect. Ta Gibson, welcome to On Purpose. welcome to On Purpose. welcome to On Purpose. >> Thank you so much for having me. You're >> Thank you so much for having me. You're >> Thank you so much for having me. You're lovely and I'm just I'm really excited lovely and I'm just I'm really excited lovely and I'm just I'm really excited to chat with you. to chat with you. to chat with you. >> I'm so grateful to have you here, Ta. I >> I'm so grateful to have you here, Ta. I >> I'm so grateful to have you here, Ta. I feel like the world got addicted to feel like the world got addicted to feel like the world got addicted to attachment styles and got fascinated attachment styles and got fascinated attachment styles and got fascinated with the language. Yeah. with the language. Yeah. with the language. Yeah. >> And I think what so often happens is we >> And I think what so often happens is we >> And I think what so often happens is we find language to support how we feel, find language to support how we feel, find language to support how we feel, how we think, but then you're how we think, but then you're how we think, but then you're encouraging us with the new attachment encouraging us with the new attachment encouraging us with the new attachment theory to actually encourage us to heal, theory to actually encourage us to heal, theory to actually encourage us to heal, to transform, to grow. And I feel this to transform, to grow. And I feel this to transform, to grow. And I feel this is a conversation that every single is a conversation that every single is a conversation that every single person needs to hear because whether person needs to hear because whether person needs to hear because whether it's their love life, whether it's their it's their love life, whether it's their it's their love life, whether it's their workplace, whether it's their personal workplace, whether it's their personal workplace, whether it's their personal image of who they are, this conversation image of who they are, this conversation image of who they are, this conversation will make a difference in their life. will make a difference in their life. will make a difference in their life. Could you start by telling me if someone Could you start by telling me if someone Could you start by telling me if someone listens to our conversation today, what listens to our conversation today, what listens to our conversation today, what will change for them? will change for them? will change for them? >> I think the biggest thing and to your >> I think the biggest thing and to your >> I think the biggest thing and to your point like I love that everybody I've point like I love that everybody I've point like I love that everybody I've been studying this work for a long time been studying this work for a long time been studying this work for a long time and in this field for a long time and and in this field for a long time and and in this field for a long time and when attachment cell started becoming when attachment cell started becoming when attachment cell started becoming more mainstream. I was so excited and more mainstream. I was so excited and more mainstream. I was so excited and then over time I started thinking like then over time I started thinking like then over time I started thinking like wait it's almost becoming to the point wait it's almost becoming to the point wait it's almost becoming to the point where people are just identifying with where people are just identifying with where people are just identifying with it almost as a label going oh I just am it almost as a label going oh I just am it almost as a label going oh I just am this attachment style rather than being this attachment style rather than being this attachment style rather than being in a position of going wait I have to in a position of going wait I have to in a position of going wait I have to heal this like let me understand this heal this like let me understand this heal this like let me understand this this temporary label gives me context this temporary label gives me context this temporary label gives me context into the things within me that may need into the things within me that may need into the things within me that may need a little bit more love or healing or a little bit more love or healing or a little bit more love or healing or support but the actual work is being support but the actual work is being support but the actual work is being able to say okay here are my patterns able to say okay here are my patterns able to say okay here are my patterns where do they come from and then where do they come from and then where do they come from and then actually rewiring them at the actually rewiring them at the actually rewiring them at the subconscious level and that's what We subconscious level and that's what We subconscious level and that's what We definitely hope the the key takeaway is definitely hope the the key takeaway is definitely hope the the key takeaway is for today. for today. for today. >> If someone has no idea what attachment >> If someone has no idea what attachment >> If someone has no idea what attachment styles are and this is their first time styles are and this is their first time styles are and this is their first time even hearing that term, how would you even hearing that term, how would you even hearing that term, how would you break it down for them and define it for break it down for them and define it for break it down for them and define it for them? them? them? >> Yeah. So the first thing is everybody >> Yeah. So the first thing is everybody >> Yeah. So the first thing is everybody has an attachment style and there are has an attachment style and there are has an attachment style and there are four of them and this is one of the four of them and this is one of the four of them and this is one of the biggest studied bodies of work biggest studied bodies of work biggest studied bodies of work originally and it originally came from originally and it originally came from originally and it originally came from John Bulby and Maryworth of Cambridge John Bulby and Maryworth of Cambridge John Bulby and Maryworth of Cambridge University and they said hey there are University and they said hey there are University and they said hey there are four attachment styles. The first one is four attachment styles. The first one is four attachment styles. The first one is the securely attached style. So they the securely attached style. So they the securely attached style. So they represent about 50% of the population represent about 50% of the population represent about 50% of the population data shows us. I always have a hard time data shows us. I always have a hard time data shows us. I always have a hard time with that. I'm like, wait, it seems like with that. I'm like, wait, it seems like with that. I'm like, wait, it seems like it may not be quite so high, but it may not be quite so high, but it may not be quite so high, but basically they h securely attached basically they h securely attached basically they h securely attached individuals are people who grew up in individuals are people who grew up in individuals are people who grew up in childhood with what we call a lot of childhood with what we call a lot of childhood with what we call a lot of approach oriented behaviors from their approach oriented behaviors from their approach oriented behaviors from their parents. And it sounds like such a small parents. And it sounds like such a small parents. And it sounds like such a small thing, but it goes such a long way. So thing, but it goes such a long way. So thing, but it goes such a long way. So approachoriented behaviors really means approachoriented behaviors really means approachoriented behaviors really means that when a child is young, if they cry that when a child is young, if they cry that when a child is young, if they cry or they get distressed, the parent is or they get distressed, the parent is or they get distressed, the parent is attuned. They're very present and they attuned. They're very present and they attuned. They're very present and they notice it and they approach the child to notice it and they approach the child to notice it and they approach the child to be like, "What's wrong?" And they be like, "What's wrong?" And they be like, "What's wrong?" And they attempt to soo them and make the child attempt to soo them and make the child attempt to soo them and make the child feel better. And what that conditions a feel better. And what that conditions a feel better. And what that conditions a child to believe at a very young age is child to believe at a very young age is child to believe at a very young age is my emotions are worthy of being seen and my emotions are worthy of being seen and my emotions are worthy of being seen and heard. It's safe to rely on other heard. It's safe to rely on other heard. It's safe to rely on other people. I can trust that people are people. I can trust that people are people. I can trust that people are going to be there for me. And also I can going to be there for me. And also I can going to be there for me. And also I can communicate. And almost most communicate. And almost most communicate. And almost most importantly, I am worthy of love as I am importantly, I am worthy of love as I am importantly, I am worthy of love as I am on my good days, on my bad days, in my on my good days, on my bad days, in my on my good days, on my bad days, in my good moments and in my hard moments. And good moments and in my hard moments. And good moments and in my hard moments. And so there's a lot of really healthy so there's a lot of really healthy so there's a lot of really healthy conditioning that that child adopts. And conditioning that that child adopts. And conditioning that that child adopts. And so of course that's the type of so of course that's the type of so of course that's the type of patterning they bring into their patterning they bring into their patterning they bring into their relationships as adults. And what's relationships as adults. And what's relationships as adults. And what's really interesting to me is that really interesting to me is that really interesting to me is that securely attached people, they report securely attached people, they report securely attached people, they report not just having the longest not just having the longest not just having the longest relationships, but they report the most relationships, but they report the most relationships, but they report the most satisfaction in their relationships. And satisfaction in their relationships. And satisfaction in their relationships. And that's a very meaningful thing. And I'm that's a very meaningful thing. And I'm that's a very meaningful thing. And I'm just a big believer in relationships. I just a big believer in relationships. I just a big believer in relationships. I love people. I care about people. And I love people. I care about people. And I love people. I care about people. And I I really think that relationships I really think that relationships I really think that relationships determine the quality of our life in so determine the quality of our life in so determine the quality of our life in so many ways. And so that's very meaningful many ways. And so that's very meaningful many ways. And so that's very meaningful in terms of, you know, the the stats on in terms of, you know, the the stats on in terms of, you know, the the stats on that. that. that. >> And then we have three insecure >> And then we have three insecure >> And then we have three insecure attachment styles. This makes up the attachment styles. This makes up the attachment styles. This makes up the other 50% or so of the population. other 50% or so of the population. other 50% or so of the population. >> I can't believe 50% of people are >> I can't believe 50% of people are >> I can't believe 50% of people are secure. That's that's huge. That's what secure. That's that's huge. That's what secure. That's that's huge. That's what I think all the time. I think all the time. I think all the time. >> I feel like all my girlfriends are >> I feel like all my girlfriends are >> I feel like all my girlfriends are struggling to find that that kind of struggling to find that that kind of struggling to find that that kind of person. Like all my friends who are person. Like all my friends who are person. Like all my friends who are dating are all my friends who are dating dating are all my friends who are dating dating are all my friends who are dating are definitely struggling to find that are definitely struggling to find that are definitely struggling to find that 50%. 50%. 50%. >> I always think that myself and and to be >> I always think that myself and and to be >> I always think that myself and and to be honest, first of all, it's conditioning honest, first of all, it's conditioning honest, first of all, it's conditioning and we'll get into a lot of this, I'm and we'll get into a lot of this, I'm and we'll get into a lot of this, I'm sure, but but conditioning changes. So sure, but but conditioning changes. So sure, but but conditioning changes. So somebody could be secure at a young age somebody could be secure at a young age somebody could be secure at a young age when a lot of these experiments are when a lot of these experiments are when a lot of these experiments are originally done and then they can go originally done and then they can go originally done and then they can go through relationship struggles and through relationship struggles and through relationship struggles and become insecure later. And secondly, I'm become insecure later. And secondly, I'm become insecure later. And secondly, I'm always like, "Oh, maybe it's my sample always like, "Oh, maybe it's my sample always like, "Oh, maybe it's my sample size of people, you know, cuz I always size of people, you know, cuz I always size of people, you know, cuz I always see people who are insecurely attached see people who are insecurely attached see people who are insecurely attached becomese." So I'm going, "Okay, maybe becomese." So I'm going, "Okay, maybe becomese." So I'm going, "Okay, maybe that's why." But securely attached that's why." But securely attached that's why." But securely attached people often end up in relationships people often end up in relationships people often end up in relationships pretty early with other securely pretty early with other securely pretty early with other securely attached people. And we can get into why attached people. And we can get into why attached people. And we can get into why that happens at a subconscious level cuz that happens at a subconscious level cuz that happens at a subconscious level cuz you usually pair up with people of a you usually pair up with people of a you usually pair up with people of a specific attachment cell for specific specific attachment cell for specific specific attachment cell for specific reasons. Um but to your point I wonder reasons. Um but to your point I wonder reasons. Um but to your point I wonder the same thing. I'm like come on this the same thing. I'm like come on this the same thing. I'm like come on this down I don't know. down I don't know. down I don't know. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But the other 50% are the insecure >> But the other 50% are the insecure >> But the other 50% are the insecure attachment. attachment. attachment. >> Exactly. So then we have three and I >> Exactly. So then we have three and I >> Exactly. So then we have three and I like to think of the other three as like to think of the other three as like to think of the other three as being along a continuum in a way. So at being along a continuum in a way. So at being along a continuum in a way. So at one end of the continuum you have the one end of the continuum you have the one end of the continuum you have the anxious attachment style. Anxiously anxious attachment style. Anxiously anxious attachment style. Anxiously attached individuals, they grow up with attached individuals, they grow up with attached individuals, they grow up with either real or perceived abandonment. either real or perceived abandonment. either real or perceived abandonment. Real abandonment is the obvious. You Real abandonment is the obvious. You Real abandonment is the obvious. You know, a parent passes away at a young know, a parent passes away at a young know, a parent passes away at a young age, god forbid, or a parent is, you age, god forbid, or a parent is, you age, god forbid, or a parent is, you know, they leave at a young age for a know, they leave at a young age for a know, they leave at a young age for a child and all of a sudden that child child and all of a sudden that child child and all of a sudden that child grows up feeling like, "Oh my gosh, am I grows up feeling like, "Oh my gosh, am I grows up feeling like, "Oh my gosh, am I going to be left or abandoned again?" going to be left or abandoned again?" going to be left or abandoned again?" Perceived abandonment is really Perceived abandonment is really Perceived abandonment is really interesting because the neuroscience of interesting because the neuroscience of interesting because the neuroscience of trauma tells us that small tea trauma trauma tells us that small tea trauma trauma tells us that small tea trauma repeatedly enough over time has a quite repeatedly enough over time has a quite repeatedly enough over time has a quite similar impact to a singular big tea similar impact to a singular big tea similar impact to a singular big tea trauma. So perceived abandonment trauma. So perceived abandonment trauma. So perceived abandonment consistently in a child's upbringing consistently in a child's upbringing consistently in a child's upbringing caused them to have real real caused them to have real real caused them to have real real abandonment wounds as an adult similar abandonment wounds as an adult similar abandonment wounds as an adult similar to if there was a real abandonment that to if there was a real abandonment that to if there was a real abandonment that took place. And perceived abandonment is took place. And perceived abandonment is took place. And perceived abandonment is things like you have very loving things like you have very loving things like you have very loving parents, but they're really busy. parents, but they're really busy. parents, but they're really busy. They're always working. They're always They're always working. They're always They're always working. They're always traveling for work. And so children grow traveling for work. And so children grow traveling for work. And so children grow up in this environment going, "Okay, up in this environment going, "Okay, up in this environment going, "Okay, love is here." And then love is taken love is here." And then love is taken love is here." And then love is taken away. And love is here and it's taken away. And love is here and it's taken away. And love is here and it's taken away. And that inconsistency there away. And that inconsistency there away. And that inconsistency there causes this child to really brace and causes this child to really brace and causes this child to really brace and deeply fear love being taken away. And deeply fear love being taken away. And deeply fear love being taken away. And so as adults, these individuals, they so as adults, these individuals, they so as adults, these individuals, they adapt in their life to be like, "Let me adapt in their life to be like, "Let me adapt in their life to be like, "Let me really be charming and charismatic and really be charming and charismatic and really be charming and charismatic and well-liked." So I win people over and well-liked." So I win people over and well-liked." So I win people over and they end up having superpowers in that they end up having superpowers in that they end up having superpowers in that way in many forms, but also anxiously way in many forms, but also anxiously way in many forms, but also anxiously attached adults, they people please so attached adults, they people please so attached adults, they people please so much to the point where they can burn much to the point where they can burn much to the point where they can burn themselves out or they people please to themselves out or they people please to themselves out or they people please to the point of self- silencing and their the point of self- silencing and their the point of self- silencing and their big wounds. So So we took this original big wounds. So So we took this original big wounds. So So we took this original body of attachment theory and they, you body of attachment theory and they, you body of attachment theory and they, you know, it said, "Here are your four know, it said, "Here are your four know, it said, "Here are your four attachment cells. Good luck." And it was attachment cells. Good luck." And it was attachment cells. Good luck." And it was sort of like, wait, but you can sort of like, wait, but you can sort of like, wait, but you can recondition pretty much anything. Like recondition pretty much anything. Like recondition pretty much anything. Like you can rewire these things. And I you can rewire these things. And I you can rewire these things. And I originally started in this work for that originally started in this work for that originally started in this work for that reason. Um, and so what we found is that reason. Um, and so what we found is that reason. Um, and so what we found is that anxious attachment cells, they have big anxious attachment cells, they have big anxious attachment cells, they have big core wounds specifically around the fear core wounds specifically around the fear core wounds specifically around the fear of abandonment, the fear of being alone, of abandonment, the fear of being alone, of abandonment, the fear of being alone, excluded, disliked, rejected, not good excluded, disliked, rejected, not good excluded, disliked, rejected, not good enough. These are like these huge wounds enough. These are like these huge wounds enough. These are like these huge wounds and triggers in their relationships. And and triggers in their relationships. And and triggers in their relationships. And they need very specific things in they need very specific things in they need very specific things in relationships. They need more relationships. They need more relationships. They need more validation, approval. They really like validation, approval. They really like validation, approval. They really like certainty. If somebody cancels plans certainty. If somebody cancels plans certainty. If somebody cancels plans with them, they really want to know, with them, they really want to know, with them, they really want to know, okay, you're canceling plans, but tell okay, you're canceling plans, but tell okay, you're canceling plans, but tell me when I'm going to see you next, and me when I'm going to see you next, and me when I'm going to see you next, and then they can sort of rest and feel then they can sort of rest and feel then they can sort of rest and feel comfortable and safe. Um, and so they comfortable and safe. Um, and so they comfortable and safe. Um, and so they end up in situations where they end up in situations where they end up in situations where they sometimes struggle with their boundaries sometimes struggle with their boundaries sometimes struggle with their boundaries growing up. They often end up in growing up. They often end up in growing up. They often end up in situations as well where because they're situations as well where because they're situations as well where because they're so busy making sure that everybody else so busy making sure that everybody else so busy making sure that everybody else is good, they kind of forget about is good, they kind of forget about is good, they kind of forget about themselves and they put themselves on themselves and they put themselves on themselves and they put themselves on the back burner. So anxious attachment the back burner. So anxious attachment the back burner. So anxious attachment styles as adults, they often also are styles as adults, they often also are styles as adults, they often also are very much invested in and attracted to very much invested in and attracted to very much invested in and attracted to emotionally unavailable people. And that emotionally unavailable people. And that emotionally unavailable people. And that becomes really problematic in different becomes really problematic in different becomes really problematic in different way that part. Yeah. way that part. Yeah. way that part. Yeah. >> Yeah. So they become attracted to >> Yeah. So they become attracted to >> Yeah. So they become attracted to emotionally unavailable people because emotionally unavailable people because emotionally unavailable people because and and I guess maybe I'll give a little and and I guess maybe I'll give a little and and I guess maybe I'll give a little bit more of a backstory to this. Um, you bit more of a backstory to this. Um, you bit more of a backstory to this. Um, you know, for me, I originally got into this know, for me, I originally got into this know, for me, I originally got into this work because I, uh, you know, had a work because I, uh, you know, had a work because I, uh, you know, had a turbulent childhood and I actually got turbulent childhood and I actually got turbulent childhood and I actually got addicted to painkillers after a knee addicted to painkillers after a knee addicted to painkillers after a knee surgery at 15. And I, you know, really surgery at 15. And I, you know, really surgery at 15. And I, you know, really struggled with about a 6-year daily use struggled with about a 6-year daily use struggled with about a 6-year daily use of opioids and tried inatient rehab and of opioids and tried inatient rehab and of opioids and tried inatient rehab and outpatient rehab and had all of these outpatient rehab and had all of these outpatient rehab and had all of these these things come up. And what was these things come up. And what was these things come up. And what was really interesting is I felt like life really interesting is I felt like life really interesting is I felt like life was really hard and I felt like was really hard and I felt like was really hard and I felt like relationships were really hard at that relationships were really hard at that relationships were really hard at that point. And I tried a lot of things that point. And I tried a lot of things that point. And I tried a lot of things that weren't really working. And I was in weren't really working. And I was in weren't really working. And I was in school for psychology and like maybe on school for psychology and like maybe on school for psychology and like maybe on the outside my life looked like you're the outside my life looked like you're the outside my life looked like you're doing well. You're you're okay. But on doing well. You're you're okay. But on doing well. You're you're okay. But on the inside I was like a mess. Like I was the inside I was like a mess. Like I was the inside I was like a mess. Like I was really hurting. And I was in a psych really hurting. And I was in a psych really hurting. And I was in a psych class and I was seriously thinking like class and I was seriously thinking like class and I was seriously thinking like I think I need to leave school. Like I I think I need to leave school. Like I I think I need to leave school. Like I don't think I can take this handle this. don't think I can take this handle this. don't think I can take this handle this. And somebody said to me in a class they And somebody said to me in a class they And somebody said to me in a class they were like it wasn't even the professor. were like it wasn't even the professor. were like it wasn't even the professor. It was a a student and he said oh your It was a a student and he said oh your It was a a student and he said oh your conscious mind can't outwill or conscious mind can't outwill or conscious mind can't outwill or overpower your subconscious mind. And overpower your subconscious mind. And overpower your subconscious mind. And for me that was like so powerful because for me that was like so powerful because for me that was like so powerful because I was sitting there going, "Oh, so I was sitting there going, "Oh, so I was sitting there going, "Oh, so you're telling me that like all the you're telling me that like all the you're telling me that like all the times I say I'm going to get clean. I'm times I say I'm going to get clean. I'm times I say I'm going to get clean. I'm going to change my life. I'm gonna, you going to change my life. I'm gonna, you going to change my life. I'm gonna, you know, stop all these these really know, stop all these these really know, stop all these these really painful things that I'm doing. I'm going painful things that I'm doing. I'm going painful things that I'm doing. I'm going to delete people's numbers from my to delete people's numbers from my to delete people's numbers from my phone. I'm going to change." And then I phone. I'm going to change." And then I phone. I'm going to change." And then I don't. It's not that I'm weak or don't. It's not that I'm weak or don't. It's not that I'm weak or powerless or not capable. It's that like powerless or not capable. It's that like powerless or not capable. It's that like this is actually what's going on. It's this is actually what's going on. It's this is actually what's going on. It's my subconscious mind. So I originally my subconscious mind. So I originally my subconscious mind. So I originally started this work by getting sober and started this work by getting sober and started this work by getting sober and then being obsessed with learning about then being obsessed with learning about then being obsessed with learning about the subconscious mind and the ego and the subconscious mind and the ego and the subconscious mind and the ego and how all this works from sort of this how all this works from sort of this how all this works from sort of this like spiritual perspective too. How do like spiritual perspective too. How do like spiritual perspective too. How do we sort of transcend those patterns and we sort of transcend those patterns and we sort of transcend those patterns and those conditions? So I was originally those conditions? So I was originally those conditions? So I was originally working for the first few years of my working for the first few years of my working for the first few years of my practice not with attachment selves but practice not with attachment selves but practice not with attachment selves but actually with people in their core actually with people in their core actually with people in their core wounds. So like what are these big wounds. So like what are these big wounds. So like what are these big triggers that we carry from our past triggers that we carry from our past triggers that we carry from our past into our present and and you know how is into our present and and you know how is into our present and and you know how is this showing up in our life? And so what this showing up in our life? And so what this showing up in our life? And so what was really interesting about that is I was really interesting about that is I was really interesting about that is I was working with people on rewiring was working with people on rewiring was working with people on rewiring their triggers, learning their own needs their triggers, learning their own needs their triggers, learning their own needs and how to meet them in healthy ways, and how to meet them in healthy ways, and how to meet them in healthy ways, learning to regulate their nervous learning to regulate their nervous learning to regulate their nervous system, learning to communicate and set system, learning to communicate and set system, learning to communicate and set boundaries. And then I came to boundaries. And then I came to boundaries. And then I came to attachment styles actually because I met attachment styles actually because I met attachment styles actually because I met my now husband and we both had our own my now husband and we both had our own my now husband and we both had our own little things we hadn't worked out in little things we hadn't worked out in little things we hadn't worked out in relationships yet. And I started relationships yet. And I started relationships yet. And I started revisiting attachment theory which I revisiting attachment theory which I revisiting attachment theory which I learned at a very high level in learned at a very high level in learned at a very high level in university. And I was like, wait. Like, university. And I was like, wait. Like, university. And I was like, wait. Like, first of all, if I know somebody's first of all, if I know somebody's first of all, if I know somebody's attachment style, I now know exactly attachment style, I now know exactly attachment style, I now know exactly what their core wounds are going to be, what their core wounds are going to be, what their core wounds are going to be, exactly what their needs are going to exactly what their needs are going to exactly what their needs are going to be, exactly what these emotional be, exactly what these emotional be, exactly what these emotional patterns are going to be in patterns are going to be in patterns are going to be in relationships, and what their nervous relationships, and what their nervous relationships, and what their nervous system is going to be functioning like. system is going to be functioning like. system is going to be functioning like. And I know what types of boundary issues And I know what types of boundary issues And I know what types of boundary issues they're going to have, and how they tend they're going to have, and how they tend they're going to have, and how they tend to communicate in relationships. And it to communicate in relationships. And it to communicate in relationships. And it was so interesting cuz like original was so interesting cuz like original was so interesting cuz like original attachment theory didn't cover any of attachment theory didn't cover any of attachment theory didn't cover any of that. It was more about like temperament that. It was more about like temperament that. It was more about like temperament and sort of some of your behaviors. And and sort of some of your behaviors. And and sort of some of your behaviors. And so I was like, "Oh my gosh, tell me so I was like, "Oh my gosh, tell me so I was like, "Oh my gosh, tell me somebody's attachment style and I can somebody's attachment style and I can somebody's attachment style and I can help them rewire all these different help them rewire all these different help them rewire all these different patterns and themes." And so what was patterns and themes." And so what was patterns and themes." And so what was really exciting to me is like attachment really exciting to me is like attachment really exciting to me is like attachment styles became mainstream, but then it styles became mainstream, but then it styles became mainstream, but then it was like, "Okay, here's your attachment was like, "Okay, here's your attachment was like, "Okay, here's your attachment style." And that's when people start to style." And that's when people start to style." And that's when people start to identify instead of like, "Hey, let me identify instead of like, "Hey, let me identify instead of like, "Hey, let me do that that underlying work." So So do that that underlying work." So So do that that underlying work." So So going back to I detourred there, but but going back to I detourred there, but but going back to I detourred there, but but going back to this, that's the anxious going back to this, that's the anxious going back to this, that's the anxious attachment cell in a nutshell is like attachment cell in a nutshell is like attachment cell in a nutshell is like those are their themes and their those are their themes and their those are their themes and their patterns. They fear like the patterns. They fear like the patterns. They fear like the abandonment, feeling not good enough, abandonment, feeling not good enough, abandonment, feeling not good enough, feeling excluded, disliked, rejected. feeling excluded, disliked, rejected. feeling excluded, disliked, rejected. Those are those big triggers that Those are those big triggers that Those are those big triggers that they're bringing from their past because they're bringing from their past because they're bringing from their past because their subconscious mind was imprinted their subconscious mind was imprinted their subconscious mind was imprinted with that. And then we always project with that. And then we always project with that. And then we always project that into the present. And I often give that into the present. And I often give that into the present. And I often give people this analogy of like a bear in people this analogy of like a bear in people this analogy of like a bear in the woods. If you go into the woods the woods. If you go into the woods the woods. If you go into the woods tomorrow and you see a bear and you run tomorrow and you see a bear and you run tomorrow and you see a bear and you run from it and you're safe, thank goodness, from it and you're safe, thank goodness, from it and you're safe, thank goodness, but then the very next day you go back but then the very next day you go back but then the very next day you go back into the woods, well, what does your into the woods, well, what does your into the woods, well, what does your mind do? You're like bracing for the mind do? You're like bracing for the mind do? You're like bracing for the bear. You're like, "The bear is coming. bear. You're like, "The bear is coming. bear. You're like, "The bear is coming. The trees blow in the wind." And you're The trees blow in the wind." And you're The trees blow in the wind." And you're like, "Oh my god, the bear." And so like, "Oh my god, the bear." And so like, "Oh my god, the bear." And so what's really interesting is that we all what's really interesting is that we all what's really interesting is that we all do that, right? We all have, oh, I felt do that, right? We all have, oh, I felt do that, right? We all have, oh, I felt abandoned as a child. Okay, I project abandoned as a child. Okay, I project abandoned as a child. Okay, I project that as an adult. Oh, I felt not good that as an adult. Oh, I felt not good that as an adult. Oh, I felt not good enough as a child. That's what I bring enough as a child. That's what I bring enough as a child. That's what I bring into my relationships as an adult. And into my relationships as an adult. And into my relationships as an adult. And that's honestly what our relationship that's honestly what our relationship that's honestly what our relationship baggage is. And those are all things baggage is. And those are all things baggage is. And those are all things that interfere the most in our that interfere the most in our that interfere the most in our relationships, but those are solvable relationships, but those are solvable relationships, but those are solvable problems. So that's sort of the anxious problems. So that's sort of the anxious problems. So that's sort of the anxious attachment style. And do you want me to attachment style. And do you want me to attachment style. And do you want me to go into the other two? go into the other two? go into the other two? >> Yes, please. Yeah, absolutely. >> Yes, please. Yeah, absolutely. >> Yes, please. Yeah, absolutely. >> Okay. So we have our secure, we have our >> Okay. So we have our secure, we have our >> Okay. So we have our secure, we have our anxious. At the other end of the anxious. At the other end of the anxious. At the other end of the continuum is our dismissive avoidant. So continuum is our dismissive avoidant. So continuum is our dismissive avoidant. So the dismissive avoidant attachment the dismissive avoidant attachment the dismissive avoidant attachment style, they grow up with their style, they grow up with their style, they grow up with their overarching theme being childhood overarching theme being childhood overarching theme being childhood emotional neglect. And sometimes you emotional neglect. And sometimes you emotional neglect. And sometimes you hear that and you kind of imagine that, hear that and you kind of imagine that, hear that and you kind of imagine that, okay, this person is going through their okay, this person is going through their okay, this person is going through their childhood and you know they have this childhood and you know they have this childhood and you know they have this really intense dynamic where they're really intense dynamic where they're really intense dynamic where they're alone at 3 years old and they're trying alone at 3 years old and they're trying alone at 3 years old and they're trying to find food. Like of course it can be to find food. Like of course it can be to find food. Like of course it can be these really extreme scenarios, but most these really extreme scenarios, but most these really extreme scenarios, but most often childhood emotional neglect is often childhood emotional neglect is often childhood emotional neglect is very much that you have these kids who very much that you have these kids who very much that you have these kids who food's on the table. There's structure food's on the table. There's structure food's on the table. There's structure and order. They're at school on time, and order. They're at school on time, and order. They're at school on time, but their parents are not emotionally but their parents are not emotionally but their parents are not emotionally available and not attuned. And it's available and not attuned. And it's available and not attuned. And it's usually not the inconsistency like one's usually not the inconsistency like one's usually not the inconsistency like one's attuned and one's not. It's usually both attuned and one's not. It's usually both attuned and one's not. It's usually both are not really attuned and they're much are not really attuned and they're much are not really attuned and they're much more uninvolved. And because children more uninvolved. And because children more uninvolved. And because children are literally wired for attunement, they are literally wired for attunement, they are literally wired for attunement, they are wired for connection. We need as are wired for connection. We need as are wired for connection. We need as children to feel safe and to feel seen children to feel safe and to feel seen children to feel safe and to feel seen and to feel special. Children come into and to feel special. Children come into and to feel special. Children come into this environment and they're like, this environment and they're like, this environment and they're like, "Okay, well, I guess this part of me "Okay, well, I guess this part of me "Okay, well, I guess this part of me that needs this is is defective and that needs this is is defective and that needs this is is defective and wrong." And so what they end up doing to wrong." And so what they end up doing to wrong." And so what they end up doing to adapt to an environment like that is adapt to an environment like that is adapt to an environment like that is repressing their attachment needs and repressing their attachment needs and repressing their attachment needs and minimizing their need for emotional minimizing their need for emotional minimizing their need for emotional connection. And so they feel better and connection. And so they feel better and connection. And so they feel better and like they have a sense of control when like they have a sense of control when like they have a sense of control when they're able to do that. But then as they're able to do that. But then as they're able to do that. But then as adults that really causes destruction to adults that really causes destruction to adults that really causes destruction to their relationships because they've their relationships because they've their relationships because they've learned, okay, this part of me, my learned, okay, this part of me, my learned, okay, this part of me, my emotional vulnerable self is defective emotional vulnerable self is defective emotional vulnerable self is defective or shameful. If I express it too much, or shameful. If I express it too much, or shameful. If I express it too much, I'll be weak. These are their big I'll be weak. These are their big I'll be weak. These are their big triggers. They end up feeling very triggers. They end up feeling very triggers. They end up feeling very afraid of relying on other people and afraid of relying on other people and afraid of relying on other people and being helpless or trapped in a situation being helpless or trapped in a situation being helpless or trapped in a situation or engulfed. And they very much or engulfed. And they very much or engulfed. And they very much internalize a lot of shame from internalize a lot of shame from internalize a lot of shame from childhood because as a child if you childhood because as a child if you childhood because as a child if you yearn for connection and it keeps yearn for connection and it keeps yearn for connection and it keeps getting rejected and nobody's paying getting rejected and nobody's paying getting rejected and nobody's paying attention well then of course as an attention well then of course as an attention well then of course as an adult you're like oh deep down if people adult you're like oh deep down if people adult you're like oh deep down if people really see me they're going to reject me really see me they're going to reject me really see me they're going to reject me like that too and I must be shameful. like that too and I must be shameful. like that too and I must be shameful. Like something deep down must be Like something deep down must be Like something deep down must be defective or broken within me. And so defective or broken within me. And so defective or broken within me. And so it's so interesting because they're very it's so interesting because they're very it's so interesting because they're very stoic. Dismissible winds are very stoic. stoic. Dismissible winds are very stoic. stoic. Dismissible winds are very stoic. We often don't see it, but that tends to We often don't see it, but that tends to We often don't see it, but that tends to be what they bring into their be what they bring into their be what they bring into their relationships. Those are their biggest relationships. Those are their biggest relationships. Those are their biggest core triggers and fears from this like core triggers and fears from this like core triggers and fears from this like new attachment theory perspective. And new attachment theory perspective. And new attachment theory perspective. And so then we have these adults who go into so then we have these adults who go into so then we have these adults who go into their relationships and they're the their relationships and they're the their relationships and they're the types of individuals as adults who are types of individuals as adults who are types of individuals as adults who are like, "Oh, they're they're great at the like, "Oh, they're they're great at the like, "Oh, they're they're great at the beginning when everything's easy and beginning when everything's easy and beginning when everything's easy and light and then after you date them for light and then after you date them for light and then after you date them for four, five, 6 months when things get a four, five, 6 months when things get a four, five, 6 months when things get a little more real and serious, they jet little more real and serious, they jet little more real and serious, they jet or they pull away or they retreat and or they pull away or they retreat and or they pull away or they retreat and then they end up in situations where, then they end up in situations where, then they end up in situations where, you know, even if they make it through you know, even if they make it through you know, even if they make it through that that period of time and keep dating that that period of time and keep dating that that period of time and keep dating somebody and keep investing, they really somebody and keep investing, they really somebody and keep investing, they really retreat emotionally and they shut down. retreat emotionally and they shut down. retreat emotionally and they shut down. And so then you have these individuals And so then you have these individuals And so then you have these individuals as adults who are like, okay, you know, as adults who are like, okay, you know, as adults who are like, okay, you know, I I feel like I'm trying to connect with I I feel like I'm trying to connect with I I feel like I'm trying to connect with you and my partner's not really you and my partner's not really you and my partner's not really available or present and they really available or present and they really available or present and they really cope by trying to always minimize their cope by trying to always minimize their cope by trying to always minimize their attachment needs and create space and so attachment needs and create space and so attachment needs and create space and so they become quite distant in they become quite distant in they become quite distant in relationships. And then the very last relationships. And then the very last relationships. And then the very last one is the fearful avoidant attachment one is the fearful avoidant attachment one is the fearful avoidant attachment style. Um fearful avoidance are style. Um fearful avoidance are style. Um fearful avoidance are basically characterized by more big tea basically characterized by more big tea basically characterized by more big tea trauma growing up. So more emotional trauma growing up. So more emotional trauma growing up. So more emotional chaos. You know, it can be anything from chaos. You know, it can be anything from chaos. You know, it can be anything from like having a parent with narcissistic like having a parent with narcissistic like having a parent with narcissistic personality disorder to having a parent personality disorder to having a parent personality disorder to having a parent who was an alcoholic or parents in who was an alcoholic or parents in who was an alcoholic or parents in active addiction, a really intense active addiction, a really intense active addiction, a really intense divorce growing up. You have more divorce growing up. You have more divorce growing up. You have more extreme kind of scenarios that the extreme kind of scenarios that the extreme kind of scenarios that the children are exposed to. But their children are exposed to. But their children are exposed to. But their wiring is such that while an anxious wiring is such that while an anxious wiring is such that while an anxious attachment style is like they always attachment style is like they always attachment style is like they always want more closeness and to win people want more closeness and to win people want more closeness and to win people over and dismissive avoidance always over and dismissive avoidance always over and dismissive avoidance always want more space and to keep distance, want more space and to keep distance, want more space and to keep distance, fearful avoidance learn that love is fearful avoidance learn that love is fearful avoidance learn that love is both a really good thing and a really both a really good thing and a really both a really good thing and a really hard thing. hard thing. hard thing. >> Interesting. So, they grow up >> Interesting. So, they grow up >> Interesting. So, they grow up essentially going, "Well, love is a good essentially going, "Well, love is a good essentially going, "Well, love is a good thing." Because let's say, for example, thing." Because let's say, for example, thing." Because let's say, for example, that mom is an alcoholic. Well, maybe that mom is an alcoholic. Well, maybe that mom is an alcoholic. Well, maybe one day mom comes home and she's had a one day mom comes home and she's had a one day mom comes home and she's had a few drinks, but she's in a good mood and few drinks, but she's in a good mood and few drinks, but she's in a good mood and she's loving and she embraces you and she's loving and she embraces you and she's loving and she embraces you and you're like, "Oh, love is safe. Love is you're like, "Oh, love is safe. Love is you're like, "Oh, love is safe. Love is good. I want more of this." And then good. I want more of this." And then good. I want more of this." And then other days, maybe mom's an alcoholic and other days, maybe mom's an alcoholic and other days, maybe mom's an alcoholic and she's drinking more heavily and now she's drinking more heavily and now she's drinking more heavily and now she's angry, drunk, and she's cruel and she's angry, drunk, and she's cruel and she's angry, drunk, and she's cruel and she's mean and she's unpredictable. And she's mean and she's unpredictable. And she's mean and she's unpredictable. And a child is like, "Well, love is a really a child is like, "Well, love is a really a child is like, "Well, love is a really good thing, but it can also really hurt good thing, but it can also really hurt good thing, but it can also really hurt me. It will be really harsh and critical me. It will be really harsh and critical me. It will be really harsh and critical and cruel sometimes to me." And so they and cruel sometimes to me." And so they and cruel sometimes to me." And so they end up having very competing end up having very competing end up having very competing associations about the same thing. associations about the same thing. associations about the same thing. They're like, "Love is both really good They're like, "Love is both really good They're like, "Love is both really good and really bad." And then as adults, and really bad." And then as adults, and really bad." And then as adults, what ends up happening is they're the what ends up happening is they're the what ends up happening is they're the very hot and cold partner. A lot of very hot and cold partner. A lot of very hot and cold partner. A lot of their core wounds from their childhood, their core wounds from their childhood, their core wounds from their childhood, their version of the bear in the woods, their version of the bear in the woods, their version of the bear in the woods, is they fear abandonment because they is they fear abandonment because they is they fear abandonment because they feel that abandonment when that love feel that abandonment when that love feel that abandonment when that love isn't there. They fear being trapped and isn't there. They fear being trapped and isn't there. They fear being trapped and helpless if they rely on people cuz helpless if they rely on people cuz helpless if they rely on people cuz they've had times where they rely on they've had times where they rely on they've had times where they rely on somebody who's really unpredictable and somebody who's really unpredictable and somebody who's really unpredictable and scary. And they have a huge core wound scary. And they have a huge core wound scary. And they have a huge core wound around feeling betrayed. That's the around feeling betrayed. That's the around feeling betrayed. That's the biggest wound we found from an the new biggest wound we found from an the new biggest wound we found from an the new attachment theory perspective is like attachment theory perspective is like attachment theory perspective is like always waiting for the other shoe to always waiting for the other shoe to always waiting for the other shoe to drop. Always waiting to to be on high drop. Always waiting to to be on high drop. Always waiting to to be on high alert like is somebody going to hurt me? alert like is somebody going to hurt me? alert like is somebody going to hurt me? And what happens to fearful avoidance is And what happens to fearful avoidance is And what happens to fearful avoidance is they get into relationships and love they get into relationships and love they get into relationships and love feels like a very bittersweet feels like a very bittersweet feels like a very bittersweet experience. And I'll speak for myself experience. And I'll speak for myself experience. And I'll speak for myself cuz I was a fearful avoidant. And I cuz I was a fearful avoidant. And I cuz I was a fearful avoidant. And I remember before doing a lot of deep remember before doing a lot of deep remember before doing a lot of deep inner work, my early serious inner work, my early serious inner work, my early serious relationships when I was much younger, relationships when I was much younger, relationships when I was much younger, feeling like I would fall in love and feeling like I would fall in love and feeling like I would fall in love and feeling like I loved the feeling of feeling like I loved the feeling of feeling like I loved the feeling of being in love and connecting and really being in love and connecting and really being in love and connecting and really wanted that depth and and connection. wanted that depth and and connection. wanted that depth and and connection. But it was also very bittersweet because But it was also very bittersweet because But it was also very bittersweet because the more I loved, the more I was like, the more I loved, the more I was like, the more I loved, the more I was like, "Oh, you're for sure going to hurt me "Oh, you're for sure going to hurt me "Oh, you're for sure going to hurt me that much more. Like, this is going to that much more. Like, this is going to that much more. Like, this is going to be a really bad ending." And there was be a really bad ending." And there was be a really bad ending." And there was this sort of belief that everything was this sort of belief that everything was this sort of belief that everything was going to inevitably be really bad and going to inevitably be really bad and going to inevitably be really bad and really painful. So love feels so good, really painful. So love feels so good, really painful. So love feels so good, but it also feels like a threat and it's but it also feels like a threat and it's but it also feels like a threat and it's scary and it causes you in a scary and it causes you in a scary and it causes you in a relationship to be like, "Come get relationship to be like, "Come get relationship to be like, "Come get close. Come get close." Somebody gets close. Come get close." Somebody gets close. Come get close." Somebody gets close, you're like, "Get back. I changed close, you're like, "Get back. I changed close, you're like, "Get back. I changed my mind." And so you see this and you my mind." And so you see this and you my mind." And so you see this and you see it like clockwork. I've seen this see it like clockwork. I've seen this see it like clockwork. I've seen this with tens of thousands of clients I've with tens of thousands of clients I've with tens of thousands of clients I've worked with the same themes, the same worked with the same themes, the same worked with the same themes, the same patterns. And I remember having one patterns. And I remember having one patterns. And I remember having one woman and she said to me, I could tell woman and she said to me, I could tell woman and she said to me, I could tell by the way my mom got home from work. I by the way my mom got home from work. I by the way my mom got home from work. I would be upstairs in my room and I could would be upstairs in my room and I could would be upstairs in my room and I could tell by the way my mom closed the door tell by the way my mom closed the door tell by the way my mom closed the door on her way in if I should close my door on her way in if I should close my door on her way in if I should close my door quickly or not. And it's like fearful of quickly or not. And it's like fearful of quickly or not. And it's like fearful of winds learn to be very hypervigilant. winds learn to be very hypervigilant. winds learn to be very hypervigilant. They learn to read between the lines. They learn to read between the lines. They learn to read between the lines. They read like every little micro They read like every little micro They read like every little micro expression and body language and change expression and body language and change expression and body language and change in a tone of voice because that's how in a tone of voice because that's how in a tone of voice because that's how they've learned to attach. So anxious they've learned to attach. So anxious they've learned to attach. So anxious people are like let me let me get close people are like let me let me get close people are like let me let me get close to you. And people please dismissive to you. And people please dismissive to you. And people please dismissive avoidance are like let me keep space. avoidance are like let me keep space. avoidance are like let me keep space. Fearful avoidance are like let me notice Fearful avoidance are like let me notice Fearful avoidance are like let me notice every little thing about you so I can every little thing about you so I can every little thing about you so I can predict your future and I can know how predict your future and I can know how predict your future and I can know how to respond. And it gives them that to respond. And it gives them that to respond. And it gives them that superpower in a way. But often then when superpower in a way. But often then when superpower in a way. But often then when you have these wounds and then you jump you have these wounds and then you jump you have these wounds and then you jump to conclusions like, "Oh, something to conclusions like, "Oh, something to conclusions like, "Oh, something changed. Something's off. You're going changed. Something's off. You're going changed. Something's off. You're going to abandon or betray me or you're trying to abandon or betray me or you're trying to abandon or betray me or you're trying to control me." And you sort of jump to to control me." And you sort of jump to to control me." And you sort of jump to those conclusions, it makes for a really those conclusions, it makes for a really those conclusions, it makes for a really turbulent set of relationships and turbulent set of relationships and turbulent set of relationships and lifestyle. lifestyle. lifestyle. >> I think what you just explained, I think >> I think what you just explained, I think >> I think what you just explained, I think everyone listening is like, "That's who everyone listening is like, "That's who everyone listening is like, "That's who I am. That's who I've dated. I am. That's who I've dated. I am. That's who I've dated. >> That's who my parents are." Right? Like >> That's who my parents are." Right? Like >> That's who my parents are." Right? Like when you break it down that way, I feel when you break it down that way, I feel when you break it down that way, I feel it gives people so much clarity to it gives people so much clarity to it gives people so much clarity to actually recognize all the mistakes actually recognize all the mistakes actually recognize all the mistakes they're repeating, all the things they're repeating, all the things they're repeating, all the things they're carrying. Why we walk into they're carrying. Why we walk into they're carrying. Why we walk into relationships where we can sense relationships where we can sense relationships where we can sense something doesn't quite make sense or something doesn't quite make sense or something doesn't quite make sense or why we get attracted to familiar why we get attracted to familiar why we get attracted to familiar patterns that we saw in our parents. It patterns that we saw in our parents. It patterns that we saw in our parents. It feels like this can help people actually feels like this can help people actually feels like this can help people actually give them a map of how to make sense of give them a map of how to make sense of give them a map of how to make sense of their emotions and even the people they their emotions and even the people they their emotions and even the people they meet. What would you encourage someone meet. What would you encourage someone meet. What would you encourage someone to do differently if someone's listening to do differently if someone's listening to do differently if someone's listening right now and they're dating? How can right now and they're dating? How can right now and they're dating? How can they use what you've just shared to date they use what you've just shared to date they use what you've just shared to date differently? differently? differently? >> Yeah. So, really good question. So, you >> Yeah. So, really good question. So, you >> Yeah. So, really good question. So, you touched on something earlier and I touched on something earlier and I touched on something earlier and I sidetracked and forgot to come back to sidetracked and forgot to come back to sidetracked and forgot to come back to it, but it's actually this. It's that we it, but it's actually this. It's that we it, but it's actually this. It's that we you were like what causes that sort of you were like what causes that sort of you were like what causes that sort of attraction piece and this plays right attraction piece and this plays right attraction piece and this plays right into this which is we are attracted to into this which is we are attracted to into this which is we are attracted to people. So your conscious mind is people. So your conscious mind is people. So your conscious mind is responsible for 3 to 5% of all of your responsible for 3 to 5% of all of your responsible for 3 to 5% of all of your beliefs, your thoughts, your emotions, beliefs, your thoughts, your emotions, beliefs, your thoughts, your emotions, your actions. Your subconscious and your actions. Your subconscious and your actions. Your subconscious and unconscious collectively are 95 to 97%. unconscious collectively are 95 to 97%. unconscious collectively are 95 to 97%. And so it's really interesting is And so it's really interesting is And so it's really interesting is consciously our conscious mind is our consciously our conscious mind is our consciously our conscious mind is our logical analytical mind and our logical analytical mind and our logical analytical mind and our subconscious is our habituated self, our subconscious is our habituated self, our subconscious is our habituated self, our programming, our conditioning. And our programming, our conditioning. And our programming, our conditioning. And our conscious mind will say I want the conscious mind will say I want the conscious mind will say I want the emotionally available partner. I want emotionally available partner. I want emotionally available partner. I want the person who's ready to be in a rel. the person who's ready to be in a rel. the person who's ready to be in a rel. We'll say all the things in the world, We'll say all the things in the world, We'll say all the things in the world, but secure people feel that consciously but secure people feel that consciously but secure people feel that consciously and subconsciously. Insecure people and subconsciously. Insecure people and subconsciously. Insecure people don't. Insecurely attached people don't don't. Insecurely attached people don't don't. Insecurely attached people don't really have that same experience. So, really have that same experience. So, really have that same experience. So, for example, our subconscious mind for example, our subconscious mind for example, our subconscious mind equates familiarity to safety and thus equates familiarity to safety and thus equates familiarity to safety and thus survival. And ultimately, we're survival survival. And ultimately, we're survival survival. And ultimately, we're survival wired. And so what ends up happening is wired. And so what ends up happening is wired. And so what ends up happening is people who are let's say anxiously people who are let's say anxiously people who are let's say anxiously attached for example they'll often say attached for example they'll often say attached for example they'll often say consciously that they want the consciously that they want the consciously that they want the emotionally available partner but they emotionally available partner but they emotionally available partner but they will feel most attracted to and be most will feel most attracted to and be most will feel most attracted to and be most likely to invest in because your likely to invest in because your likely to invest in because your subconscious mind runs the show people subconscious mind runs the show people subconscious mind runs the show people who are most familiar. What is most who are most familiar. What is most who are most familiar. What is most familiar to each of us is actually the familiar to each of us is actually the familiar to each of us is actually the way we treat ourselves. way we treat ourselves. way we treat ourselves. >> And so if you look at the anxious >> And so if you look at the anxious >> And so if you look at the anxious person, how does the anxious person person, how does the anxious person person, how does the anxious person treat themselves? because they're so treat themselves? because they're so treat themselves? because they're so externally focused on everybody else's externally focused on everybody else's externally focused on everybody else's feelings and needs. They often dismiss feelings and needs. They often dismiss feelings and needs. They often dismiss and avoid their own feelings, their and avoid their own feelings, their and avoid their own feelings, their needs, their boundaries. And so what needs, their boundaries. And so what needs, their boundaries. And so what happens as a result of that is they are happens as a result of that is they are happens as a result of that is they are very much often attracted to people who very much often attracted to people who very much often attracted to people who will mirror that back to them. And even will mirror that back to them. And even will mirror that back to them. And even if you flip that around to the if you flip that around to the if you flip that around to the dismissive avoidant, dismissive dismissive avoidant, dismissive dismissive avoidant, dismissive avoidance end up in situations where avoidance end up in situations where avoidance end up in situations where they're like preoccupied with their own they're like preoccupied with their own they're like preoccupied with their own time to themselves. They're going, "Do I time to themselves. They're going, "Do I time to themselves. They're going, "Do I have enough time to myself to regulate? have enough time to myself to regulate? have enough time to myself to regulate? Do I have enough space?" And so what's Do I have enough space?" And so what's Do I have enough space?" And so what's really interesting is consciously really interesting is consciously really interesting is consciously they'll say, "Oh, I want somebody who they'll say, "Oh, I want somebody who they'll say, "Oh, I want somebody who gets my freedom and and respects it." gets my freedom and and respects it." gets my freedom and and respects it." But subconsciously they'll often go and But subconsciously they'll often go and But subconsciously they'll often go and invest in people who are very invest in people who are very invest in people who are very preoccupied with them. And so that's why preoccupied with them. And so that's why preoccupied with them. And so that's why you often pair up with people of you often pair up with people of you often pair up with people of different attachment cells. And that's different attachment cells. And that's different attachment cells. And that's often why you see secure people be with often why you see secure people be with often why you see secure people be with secure people. And so when it comes to secure people. And so when it comes to secure people. And so when it comes to dating, the most important thing, and I dating, the most important thing, and I dating, the most important thing, and I will say this forever, and nobody likes will say this forever, and nobody likes will say this forever, and nobody likes to hear it, but it's the truth, is that to hear it, but it's the truth, is that to hear it, but it's the truth, is that the most important thing you're ever the most important thing you're ever the most important thing you're ever going to do is learn to have a secure going to do is learn to have a secure going to do is learn to have a secure relationship with yourself first. And relationship with yourself first. And relationship with yourself first. And that's going to be through rewiring that's going to be through rewiring that's going to be through rewiring these insecure patterns. And I'm sure we these insecure patterns. And I'm sure we these insecure patterns. And I'm sure we can get into all the ways how, but but can get into all the ways how, but but can get into all the ways how, but but rewiring those insecure patterns because rewiring those insecure patterns because rewiring those insecure patterns because you can say that you want the healthiest you can say that you want the healthiest you can say that you want the healthiest relationship. You can have your relationship. You can have your relationship. You can have your checklist. You can know your needs. You checklist. You can know your needs. You checklist. You can know your needs. You can try to ask all the right questions can try to ask all the right questions can try to ask all the right questions on the dates and go to the right places on the dates and go to the right places on the dates and go to the right places and find the right people. But and find the right people. But and find the right people. But ultimately, you often will find that ultimately, you often will find that ultimately, you often will find that you're in relationships with people who you're in relationships with people who you're in relationships with people who might have all those things on the might have all those things on the might have all those things on the checklist and you're like, I just don't checklist and you're like, I just don't checklist and you're like, I just don't feel attracted to them. Oh, this person, feel attracted to them. Oh, this person, feel attracted to them. Oh, this person, and I've heard this all the time. I and I've heard this all the time. I and I've heard this all the time. I actually used to do this when I was much actually used to do this when I was much actually used to do this when I was much younger before doing the work. I had younger before doing the work. I had younger before doing the work. I had people I would date them or start to get people I would date them or start to get people I would date them or start to get to know them and they were very secure to know them and they were very secure to know them and they were very secure and I would be like and I would be like and I would be like >> this is kind of boring like >> this is kind of boring like >> this is kind of boring like where's where's the roller coaster where's where's the roller coaster where's where's the roller coaster because that's what was most familiar because that's what was most familiar because that's what was most familiar and this is a a conversation I've had and this is a a conversation I've had and this is a a conversation I've had with thousands of people at this point with thousands of people at this point with thousands of people at this point we are not going to be attracted to the we are not going to be attracted to the we are not going to be attracted to the right people according to our conscious right people according to our conscious right people according to our conscious mind's evaluation of it until we do that mind's evaluation of it until we do that mind's evaluation of it until we do that in our workforce to heal to become in our workforce to heal to become in our workforce to heal to become secure to self and then that's what secure to self and then that's what secure to self and then that's what we'll be attracted to and want to invest we'll be attracted to and want to invest we'll be attracted to and want to invest in with other people in with other people in with other people >> that makes so much sense it's why making >> that makes so much sense it's why making >> that makes so much sense it's why making the list of everything you want in your the list of everything you want in your the list of everything you want in your ideal person doesn't just make sense ideal person doesn't just make sense ideal person doesn't just make sense because that's your conscious mind. Or because that's your conscious mind. Or because that's your conscious mind. Or this idea of oh if you vision them and this idea of oh if you vision them and this idea of oh if you vision them and dream them and vision board them doesn't dream them and vision board them doesn't dream them and vision board them doesn't make sense because that's your conscious make sense because that's your conscious make sense because that's your conscious mind. And while everything meanwhile mind. And while everything meanwhile mind. And while everything meanwhile everything's happening in your everything's happening in your everything's happening in your subconscious mind which isn't ready subconscious mind which isn't ready subconscious mind which isn't ready isn't prepared is rejecting someone isn't prepared is rejecting someone isn't prepared is rejecting someone that's actually good for you is boring that's actually good for you is boring that's actually good for you is boring and accepting someone who's terrible for and accepting someone who's terrible for and accepting someone who's terrible for you because it's familiar. And so the you because it's familiar. And so the you because it's familiar. And so the chaos and the ups and downs. And so that chaos and the ups and downs. And so that chaos and the ups and downs. And so that may it now makes sense listening to that may it now makes sense listening to that may it now makes sense listening to that why we're attracted to the people that why we're attracted to the people that why we're attracted to the people that make us feel insecure or people that are make us feel insecure or people that are make us feel insecure or people that are not emotionally available because we've not emotionally available because we've not emotionally available because we've had that before. So we know what had that before. So we know what had that before. So we know what behaviors to play into which is I'll be behaviors to play into which is I'll be behaviors to play into which is I'll be hypervigilant if I'm a fearful avoidant. hypervigilant if I'm a fearful avoidant. hypervigilant if I'm a fearful avoidant. I'll be super distant if I'm one. You I'll be super distant if I'm one. You I'll be super distant if I'm one. You know, it's it's fascinating to me that know, it's it's fascinating to me that know, it's it's fascinating to me that Yeah. Just listening to that just makes Yeah. Just listening to that just makes Yeah. Just listening to that just makes it make sense. And as you said, the it make sense. And as you said, the it make sense. And as you said, the advice you just gave is becoming secure advice you just gave is becoming secure advice you just gave is becoming secure in your relationship with yourself. in your relationship with yourself. in your relationship with yourself. You're not just saying, hey, you have to You're not just saying, hey, you have to You're not just saying, hey, you have to love yourself first or you have to you love yourself first or you have to you love yourself first or you have to you you're saying to actually you can you're saying to actually you can you're saying to actually you can actually technically actually technically actually technically develop a subconscious relationship with develop a subconscious relationship with develop a subconscious relationship with yourself that is based on security and yourself that is based on security and yourself that is based on security and safety. safety. safety. >> Yes. So earlier when I was saying there >> Yes. So earlier when I was saying there >> Yes. So earlier when I was saying there was the original attachment theory was was the original attachment theory was was the original attachment theory was like these are the attachment cells, but like these are the attachment cells, but like these are the attachment cells, but it kind of just talked about their it kind of just talked about their it kind of just talked about their temperaments and some of the themes in temperaments and some of the themes in temperaments and some of the themes in their childhood and how they behave. I their childhood and how they behave. I their childhood and how they behave. I had already been doing this work with had already been doing this work with had already been doing this work with like the core wounds and the needs and like the core wounds and the needs and like the core wounds and the needs and the nervous system frameworks with the nervous system frameworks with the nervous system frameworks with people and and how people communicate people and and how people communicate people and and how people communicate and how they behave and I was and how they behave and I was and how they behave and I was specifically in the body of work for the specifically in the body of work for the specifically in the body of work for the first few years. I was working with first few years. I was working with first few years. I was working with people just helping people like rewire people just helping people like rewire people just helping people like rewire their painful patterns and a lot of it their painful patterns and a lot of it their painful patterns and a lot of it was from their childhood conditioning was from their childhood conditioning was from their childhood conditioning but I hadn't ever put it into the theme but I hadn't ever put it into the theme but I hadn't ever put it into the theme of like attachment styles. And then when of like attachment styles. And then when of like attachment styles. And then when I you know met my husband and we we I you know met my husband and we we I you know met my husband and we we started getting more serious and I was started getting more serious and I was started getting more serious and I was like ooh I still have a little like like ooh I still have a little like like ooh I still have a little like relationship work to do. I'd done a lot relationship work to do. I'd done a lot relationship work to do. I'd done a lot of work to be really peaceful within of work to be really peaceful within of work to be really peaceful within myself, but realized I had a little myself, but realized I had a little myself, but realized I had a little relationship work to do with him and relationship work to do with him and relationship work to do with him and kind of felt like he also had some work kind of felt like he also had some work kind of felt like he also had some work to do with me. And I I revisited more to do with me. And I I revisited more to do with me. And I I revisited more about learning about relationships. And about learning about relationships. And about learning about relationships. And the first thing I went back to was like, the first thing I went back to was like, the first thing I went back to was like, "Oh, attachment cells." And I was like, "Oh, attachment cells." And I was like, "Oh, attachment cells." And I was like, "Oh my goodness, once I know somebody's "Oh my goodness, once I know somebody's "Oh my goodness, once I know somebody's attachment cell, every attachment cell attachment cell, every attachment cell attachment cell, every attachment cell has these core wounds and these patterns has these core wounds and these patterns has these core wounds and these patterns with their needs and these patterns with with their needs and these patterns with with their needs and these patterns with their nervous system, communication, their nervous system, communication, their nervous system, communication, behaviors." And so what we ended up behaviors." And so what we ended up behaviors." And so what we ended up creating is this whole body of work creating is this whole body of work creating is this whole body of work that's you can actually rewire each of that's you can actually rewire each of that's you can actually rewire each of those things at the subconscious level those things at the subconscious level those things at the subconscious level because your subconscious mind is because your subconscious mind is because your subconscious mind is literally driving your life. And so it's literally driving your life. And so it's literally driving your life. And so it's like all of the conditioning that we've like all of the conditioning that we've like all of the conditioning that we've picked up from past experiences in our picked up from past experiences in our picked up from past experiences in our own personal warehouse. How do we start own personal warehouse. How do we start own personal warehouse. How do we start to recondition? And we really boil it to recondition? And we really boil it to recondition? And we really boil it into those five pillars. So the first into those five pillars. So the first into those five pillars. So the first pillar and this is like I love that you pillar and this is like I love that you pillar and this is like I love that you said it's not just about self-love cuz said it's not just about self-love cuz said it's not just about self-love cuz sometimes I don't know sometimes you sometimes I don't know sometimes you sometimes I don't know sometimes you hear stuff and people say just forgive hear stuff and people say just forgive hear stuff and people say just forgive people and you're like that would be people and you're like that would be people and you're like that would be nice if I felt like that. How do I nice if I felt like that. How do I nice if I felt like that. How do I emotionally arrive there and how do I emotionally arrive there and how do I emotionally arrive there and how do I actually feel that deeply? And so a lot actually feel that deeply? And so a lot actually feel that deeply? And so a lot of the work is how do we actually get to of the work is how do we actually get to of the work is how do we actually get to our subconscious mind because that's how our subconscious mind because that's how our subconscious mind because that's how things unfold this way. And same with things unfold this way. And same with things unfold this way. And same with self- loveve. It's a subconscious self- loveve. It's a subconscious self- loveve. It's a subconscious process cuz if you didn't get love process cuz if you didn't get love process cuz if you didn't get love mirror to in healthy ways growing up, mirror to in healthy ways growing up, mirror to in healthy ways growing up, you're going to mirror that back in the you're going to mirror that back in the you're going to mirror that back in the relationship to yourself and as adult relationship to yourself and as adult relationship to yourself and as adult and then you're going to be attracted to and then you're going to be attracted to and then you're going to be attracted to to unhealthy forms of love as an adult to unhealthy forms of love as an adult to unhealthy forms of love as an adult with other people. So So first pillar of with other people. So So first pillar of with other people. So So first pillar of really healing is to learn to rewire really healing is to learn to rewire really healing is to learn to rewire your core wounds. And we can go through your core wounds. And we can go through your core wounds. And we can go through an actual exercise here. So, first um an actual exercise here. So, first um an actual exercise here. So, first um step, there's three steps to doing this. step, there's three steps to doing this. step, there's three steps to doing this. Let's just say for ease sake that the Let's just say for ease sake that the Let's just say for ease sake that the core wound is not good enough. And we core wound is not good enough. And we core wound is not good enough. And we talked about each of them for the talked about each of them for the talked about each of them for the different attachment styles earlier. So, different attachment styles earlier. So, different attachment styles earlier. So, people can kind of hold that core wound people can kind of hold that core wound people can kind of hold that core wound in their mind that stood out to them. in their mind that stood out to them. in their mind that stood out to them. And you ideally want to work on one at a And you ideally want to work on one at a And you ideally want to work on one at a time. So, not good enough. What is the time. So, not good enough. What is the time. So, not good enough. What is the opposite? I am good enough. That part's opposite? I am good enough. That part's opposite? I am good enough. That part's really easy. The second piece when it really easy. The second piece when it really easy. The second piece when it comes to actually rewiring these things comes to actually rewiring these things comes to actually rewiring these things is I'm not a big believer in is I'm not a big believer in is I'm not a big believer in affirmations. affirmations. affirmations. The reason being that affirmations are The reason being that affirmations are The reason being that affirmations are of the conscious mind. Your conscious of the conscious mind. Your conscious of the conscious mind. Your conscious mind speaks language. Okay? Your mind speaks language. Okay? Your mind speaks language. Okay? Your subconscious mind does not speak subconscious mind does not speak subconscious mind does not speak language. It doesn't really understand language. It doesn't really understand language. It doesn't really understand language much at all. language much at all. language much at all. >> What does a subconscious mind speak? >> What does a subconscious mind speak? >> What does a subconscious mind speak? >> It speaks in emotions and images. So if >> It speaks in emotions and images. So if >> It speaks in emotions and images. So if I say to you, okay, whatever you do, I say to you, okay, whatever you do, I say to you, okay, whatever you do, Jay, do not think of a pink elephant. Jay, do not think of a pink elephant. Jay, do not think of a pink elephant. Like you probably flashed an image of a Like you probably flashed an image of a Like you probably flashed an image of a pink elephant. Even though you you pink elephant. Even though you you pink elephant. Even though you you heard, do not. Your conscious mind heard heard, do not. Your conscious mind heard heard, do not. Your conscious mind heard do not. And then after you flash the do not. And then after you flash the do not. And then after you flash the image and you're like, "Oh, I shouldn't image and you're like, "Oh, I shouldn't image and you're like, "Oh, I shouldn't have thought of the the elephant." And have thought of the the elephant." And have thought of the the elephant." And that's because our subconscious also that's because our subconscious also that's because our subconscious also reacts a little bit more quickly than reacts a little bit more quickly than reacts a little bit more quickly than our conscious mind in many ways. So, so our conscious mind in many ways. So, so our conscious mind in many ways. So, so we have to actually use our conscious we have to actually use our conscious we have to actually use our conscious mind to rewire our subconscious mind mind to rewire our subconscious mind mind to rewire our subconscious mind because we can do that but we actually because we can do that but we actually because we can do that but we actually our conscious mind cannot outwill or our conscious mind cannot outwill or our conscious mind cannot outwill or overpower our subconscious mind can only overpower our subconscious mind can only overpower our subconscious mind can only rewire it. Part of why you hear people rewire it. Part of why you hear people rewire it. Part of why you hear people be like, "Oh, I said I was going to quit be like, "Oh, I said I was going to quit be like, "Oh, I said I was going to quit eating chocolate for my New Year's eating chocolate for my New Year's eating chocolate for my New Year's resolution and then they go back to resolution and then they go back to resolution and then they go back to eating chocolate 3 days later." Cuz eating chocolate 3 days later." Cuz eating chocolate 3 days later." Cuz unless things are built into your unless things are built into your unless things are built into your subconscious, we really have a hard time subconscious, we really have a hard time subconscious, we really have a hard time changing behaviors. So, first step, I am changing behaviors. So, first step, I am changing behaviors. So, first step, I am not good enough. I am good enough. The not good enough. I am good enough. The not good enough. I am good enough. The opposite of your core wound. I'll be opposite of your core wound. I'll be opposite of your core wound. I'll be abandoned. I'm worthy of connection. abandoned. I'm worthy of connection. abandoned. I'm worthy of connection. I'll be unloved. I'm lovable. Right? So, I'll be unloved. I'm lovable. Right? So, I'll be unloved. I'm lovable. Right? So, we we pick the opposite. Step two is we we we pick the opposite. Step two is we we we pick the opposite. Step two is we need repetition of emotions and imagery need repetition of emotions and imagery need repetition of emotions and imagery because repetition fires and wires because repetition fires and wires because repetition fires and wires neural pathways. Emotions and images do neural pathways. Emotions and images do neural pathways. Emotions and images do it at the subconscious level. So you're it at the subconscious level. So you're it at the subconscious level. So you're like, "How do we find emotions and like, "How do we find emotions and like, "How do we find emotions and images?" Well, interestingly, every images?" Well, interestingly, every images?" Well, interestingly, every memory we ever have is a container of memory we ever have is a container of memory we ever have is a container of emotions and imagery. emotions and imagery. emotions and imagery. >> Yeah. Absolutely. >> Yeah. Absolutely. >> Yeah. Absolutely. >> So if you say, "Okay, what was your >> So if you say, "Okay, what was your >> So if you say, "Okay, what was your favorite childhood memory?" and you were favorite childhood memory?" and you were favorite childhood memory?" and you were playing at the beach or the ocean and playing at the beach or the ocean and playing at the beach or the ocean and you see the red bucket and you see the you see the red bucket and you see the you see the red bucket and you see the the waves and your family's faces like the waves and your family's faces like the waves and your family's faces like you see the images and we've all seen you see the images and we've all seen you see the images and we've all seen when people have an exciting experience when people have an exciting experience when people have an exciting experience or a happy memory they smile or they or a happy memory they smile or they or a happy memory they smile or they laugh or their body language changes and laugh or their body language changes and laugh or their body language changes and so what we do is we're going to come up so what we do is we're going to come up so what we do is we're going to come up with 10 memories to support the new idea with 10 memories to support the new idea with 10 memories to support the new idea that we're trying to drive to the that we're trying to drive to the that we're trying to drive to the subconscious mind so for example I am subconscious mind so for example I am subconscious mind so for example I am good enough 10 times I actually felt good enough 10 times I actually felt good enough 10 times I actually felt good enough and they do not have to be good enough and they do not have to be good enough and they do not have to be big it can be things like I was a good big it can be things like I was a good big it can be things like I was a good friend last week I had a hard friend last week I had a hard friend last week I had a hard conversation with my spouse two weeks conversation with my spouse two weeks conversation with my spouse two weeks ago. Whatever it is, it can be small ago. Whatever it is, it can be small ago. Whatever it is, it can be small things, but we need to just elicit a things, but we need to just elicit a things, but we need to just elicit a little bit of emotion, that imagery of little bit of emotion, that imagery of little bit of emotion, that imagery of the memory, and we need 10 of them. Step the memory, and we need 10 of them. Step the memory, and we need 10 of them. Step three, we record ourselves saying it out three, we record ourselves saying it out three, we record ourselves saying it out loud. So, ideally, we write them down, loud. So, ideally, we write them down, loud. So, ideally, we write them down, we record ourselves, sing it into our we record ourselves, sing it into our we record ourselves, sing it into our phone, and then our subconscious mind phone, and then our subconscious mind phone, and then our subconscious mind actually sponges up a lot of information actually sponges up a lot of information actually sponges up a lot of information more effectively when we are in a more effectively when we are in a more effectively when we are in a suggestible state, meaning our brain is suggestible state, meaning our brain is suggestible state, meaning our brain is producing more alpha brain waves. And so producing more alpha brain waves. And so producing more alpha brain waves. And so what we get people to do is to sit down. what we get people to do is to sit down. what we get people to do is to sit down. They they record themselves saying this They they record themselves saying this They they record themselves saying this out loud. It takes 2 minutes to listen out loud. It takes 2 minutes to listen out loud. It takes 2 minutes to listen back. And your brain produces a lot more back. And your brain produces a lot more back. And your brain produces a lot more alpha brain waves after a good alpha brain waves after a good alpha brain waves after a good meditation. The first hour that you wake meditation. The first hour that you wake meditation. The first hour that you wake up before drinking coffee, the last hour up before drinking coffee, the last hour up before drinking coffee, the last hour before you go to sleep, after intense before you go to sleep, after intense before you go to sleep, after intense exercise, breath work, these types of exercise, breath work, these types of exercise, breath work, these types of things, you're in more alpha brain wave things, you're in more alpha brain wave things, you're in more alpha brain wave mode when your mind is more relaxed, mode when your mind is more relaxed, mode when your mind is more relaxed, more still. And then what we're doing is more still. And then what we're doing is more still. And then what we're doing is we're listening back to those things we're listening back to those things we're listening back to those things during that time during that time during that time >> in your own voice. >> in your own voice. >> in your own voice. >> In your own voice. Exactly. Saying it >> In your own voice. Exactly. Saying it >> In your own voice. Exactly. Saying it out loud. You're listening back and out loud. You're listening back and out loud. You're listening back and you're very much focusing on the images you're very much focusing on the images you're very much focusing on the images and the emotion as you feel back in that and the emotion as you feel back in that and the emotion as you feel back in that suggestible state. And neuroscience suggestible state. And neuroscience suggestible state. And neuroscience research tells us if we are in a research tells us if we are in a research tells us if we are in a suggestible state, doing that for 21 suggestible state, doing that for 21 suggestible state, doing that for 21 days builds new neural networks that are days builds new neural networks that are days builds new neural networks that are very strong that they are highly likely very strong that they are highly likely very strong that they are highly likely to stay. And what's really interesting to stay. And what's really interesting to stay. And what's really interesting is we we surveyed people who did this. is we we surveyed people who did this. is we we surveyed people who did this. We're like, okay, like let's actually We're like, okay, like let's actually We're like, okay, like let's actually track how people are doing this. People track how people are doing this. People track how people are doing this. People said they stuck to it every day for 21 said they stuck to it every day for 21 said they stuck to it every day for 21 days. We had like tens of it was 60,000 days. We had like tens of it was 60,000 days. We had like tens of it was 60,000 people who we did the survey on. people people who we did the survey on. people people who we did the survey on. people who said they did not miss a day for 21 who said they did not miss a day for 21 who said they did not miss a day for 21 days reported a 99.7% days reported a 99.7% days reported a 99.7% score in actually rewiring the wound. score in actually rewiring the wound. score in actually rewiring the wound. So, it's highly effective. It's very So, it's highly effective. It's very So, it's highly effective. It's very simple and it's something like anybody simple and it's something like anybody simple and it's something like anybody can do right now. And if you really look can do right now. And if you really look can do right now. And if you really look like those wounds, those are the things like those wounds, those are the things like those wounds, those are the things that wreak havoc on people's lives and that wreak havoc on people's lives and that wreak havoc on people's lives and relationships. Those are the really relationships. Those are the really relationships. Those are the really painful things that those are painful things that those are painful things that those are relationship baggage that we're really relationship baggage that we're really relationship baggage that we're really carrying and those are why we keep carrying and those are why we keep carrying and those are why we keep choosing the wrong scenarios over and choosing the wrong scenarios over and choosing the wrong scenarios over and over again or that that same unavailable over again or that that same unavailable over again or that that same unavailable partner. So, really simple starter tool partner. So, really simple starter tool partner. So, really simple starter tool for rewiring. That's the one I like to for rewiring. That's the one I like to for rewiring. That's the one I like to share to begin with. Um, and it's share to begin with. Um, and it's share to begin with. Um, and it's something people can just do at home something people can just do at home something people can just do at home from listening. from listening. from listening. >> Yeah. And this is something you help >> Yeah. And this is something you help >> Yeah. And this is something you help people do in your school, right? Like people do in your school, right? Like people do in your school, right? Like this. So, this is the transition that this. So, this is the transition that this. So, this is the transition that you're helping people build these skills you're helping people build these skills you're helping people build these skills and abilities. and abilities. and abilities. >> Exactly. So, we really focus on we do >> Exactly. So, we really focus on we do >> Exactly. So, we really focus on we do these 90-day programs that help people these 90-day programs that help people these 90-day programs that help people go through these five pillars and rewire go through these five pillars and rewire go through these five pillars and rewire each of these pillars at the each of these pillars at the each of these pillars at the subconscious level. That's just the subconscious level. That's just the subconscious level. That's just the first pillar of core wounds. And I'm first pillar of core wounds. And I'm first pillar of core wounds. And I'm happy to go through like each of the happy to go through like each of the happy to go through like each of the pillars and share about them. But, um, pillars and share about them. But, um, pillars and share about them. But, um, that's a really good exercise we start that's a really good exercise we start that's a really good exercise we start people off with cuz it's highly people off with cuz it's highly people off with cuz it's highly effective. It's super simple. There's effective. It's super simple. There's effective. It's super simple. There's other cool tools that you can use as other cool tools that you can use as other cool tools that you can use as well, but it's a really good one to well, but it's a really good one to well, but it's a really good one to start. As people went through our start. As people went through our start. As people went through our programs, people reported a 200% programs, people reported a 200% programs, people reported a 200% increase in relationship satisfaction, increase in relationship satisfaction, increase in relationship satisfaction, feeling more connected, more happy, more feeling more connected, more happy, more feeling more connected, more happy, more fulfilled, 50% less conflict because fulfilled, 50% less conflict because fulfilled, 50% less conflict because people were more regulated, didn't have people were more regulated, didn't have people were more regulated, didn't have all these triggers coming up, and all these triggers coming up, and all these triggers coming up, and obviously like less fighting as a obviously like less fighting as a obviously like less fighting as a result, feeling more connected from that result, feeling more connected from that result, feeling more connected from that perspective. And then people who were perspective. And then people who were perspective. And then people who were out of a relationship doing this work on out of a relationship doing this work on out of a relationship doing this work on themselves and just, you know, preparing themselves and just, you know, preparing themselves and just, you know, preparing to go into dating reported 300% more um to go into dating reported 300% more um to go into dating reported 300% more um confidence in their dating life because confidence in their dating life because confidence in their dating life because they felt like they knew what they they felt like they knew what they they felt like they knew what they wanted, but also they weren't always wanted, but also they weren't always wanted, but also they weren't always triggered going into dating and triggered going into dating and triggered going into dating and panicking and having all these things panicking and having all these things panicking and having all these things come up, which is really important if come up, which is really important if come up, which is really important if you're going into relationships that you're going into relationships that you're going into relationships that way. way. way. >> Yeah. And I and I assume that unless >> Yeah. And I and I assume that unless >> Yeah. And I and I assume that unless you've done this work, even what you you've done this work, even what you you've done this work, even what you want may not be right or good for you, want may not be right or good for you, want may not be right or good for you, even consciously or subconsciously, even consciously or subconsciously, even consciously or subconsciously, right? to be honest like I don't like to right? to be honest like I don't like to right? to be honest like I don't like to fearonger people from saying it but I've fearonger people from saying it but I've fearonger people from saying it but I've just seen a lot of people over the years just seen a lot of people over the years just seen a lot of people over the years who they you know you build a who they you know you build a who they you know you build a relationship from insecure attachment relationship from insecure attachment relationship from insecure attachment first and you go in and you're in this first and you go in and you're in this first and you go in and you're in this power struggle stage of your power struggle stage of your power struggle stage of your relationship and you're fighting and relationship and you're fighting and relationship and you're fighting and you're going back and forth and it's you're going back and forth and it's you're going back and forth and it's really difficult and then people end up really difficult and then people end up really difficult and then people end up sometimes doing the healing work and sometimes doing the healing work and sometimes doing the healing work and being like my partner's not willing to being like my partner's not willing to being like my partner's not willing to do any work with me or communicate do any work with me or communicate do any work with me or communicate differently or do anything and like differently or do anything and like differently or do anything and like maybe I'm in the wrong relationship. So maybe I'm in the wrong relationship. So maybe I'm in the wrong relationship. So there is a risk if you're not with the there is a risk if you're not with the there is a risk if you're not with the right person um to do that. Now right person um to do that. Now right person um to do that. Now sometimes people do the work in sometimes people do the work in sometimes people do the work in relationships and that's beautiful and relationships and that's beautiful and relationships and that's beautiful and it's a really powerful potent place to it's a really powerful potent place to it's a really powerful potent place to be doing the work but I always tell be doing the work but I always tell be doing the work but I always tell people too like if that's the case each people too like if that's the case each people too like if that's the case each person in a relationship is 100% person in a relationship is 100% person in a relationship is 100% responsible for their 50% of the responsible for their 50% of the responsible for their 50% of the relationship. So it can't be one person relationship. So it can't be one person relationship. So it can't be one person doing all the emotional load for for doing all the emotional load for for doing all the emotional load for for both people and work looks different for both people and work looks different for both people and work looks different for different people. It's not always both different people. It's not always both different people. It's not always both people sitting down doing the people sitting down doing the people sitting down doing the reprogramming and and doing the work in reprogramming and and doing the work in reprogramming and and doing the work in that way. But one person has to be that way. But one person has to be that way. But one person has to be willing to practice hashing out conflict willing to practice hashing out conflict willing to practice hashing out conflict learning. You know, if one person's learning. You know, if one person's learning. You know, if one person's following our communication frameworks, following our communication frameworks, following our communication frameworks, the other person has to be willing to the other person has to be willing to the other person has to be willing to like listen and jump in and and move like listen and jump in and and move like listen and jump in and and move through conflict that way because through conflict that way because through conflict that way because otherwise we don't really get otherwise we don't really get otherwise we don't really get resolution. resolution. resolution. >> Yeah. What's the second If you could >> Yeah. What's the second If you could >> Yeah. What's the second If you could summarize for us the second to the fifth summarize for us the second to the fifth summarize for us the second to the fifth so that we have a process of what it so that we have a process of what it so that we have a process of what it looks like to build that relationship looks like to build that relationship looks like to build that relationship with oursel because as you're saying with oursel because as you're saying with oursel because as you're saying that's the most important starting that's the most important starting that's the most important starting point. And I'm thinking for all of our point. And I'm thinking for all of our point. And I'm thinking for all of our audience before we get into certain audience before we get into certain audience before we get into certain relationship dynamics, it might be relationship dynamics, it might be relationship dynamics, it might be useful for them to have a step-by-step useful for them to have a step-by-step useful for them to have a step-by-step process. process. process. >> Yeah. So the first wound, the first >> Yeah. So the first wound, the first >> Yeah. So the first wound, the first pillar is rewiring your core wounds. pillar is rewiring your core wounds. pillar is rewiring your core wounds. That gives people so much relief. And That gives people so much relief. And That gives people so much relief. And honestly, just as somebody who's done a honestly, just as somebody who's done a honestly, just as somebody who's done a lot of this work on myself first, I was lot of this work on myself first, I was lot of this work on myself first, I was my own first guinea pig, you know, 14, my own first guinea pig, you know, 14, my own first guinea pig, you know, 14, 15 years ago before really getting into 15 years ago before really getting into 15 years ago before really getting into working with people. The biggest change working with people. The biggest change working with people. The biggest change I noticed is that I used to always be in I noticed is that I used to always be in I noticed is that I used to always be in this like internal emotional drama like this like internal emotional drama like this like internal emotional drama like this person is going to abandon me. This this person is going to abandon me. This this person is going to abandon me. This person is going to can I really trust? person is going to can I really trust? person is going to can I really trust? Is this person trying to control me? Is this person trying to control me? Is this person trying to control me? Like all of these my mind was so busy. Like all of these my mind was so busy. Like all of these my mind was so busy. And when I really did a lot of this And when I really did a lot of this And when I really did a lot of this rewiring out of all those painful rewiring out of all those painful rewiring out of all those painful patterns, it felt like I had I had so patterns, it felt like I had I had so patterns, it felt like I had I had so much space back in my mind. Like I had much space back in my mind. Like I had much space back in my mind. Like I had space to think of how I wanted to design space to think of how I wanted to design space to think of how I wanted to design my life and create things and just like my life and create things and just like my life and create things and just like room to be present in things. And that room to be present in things. And that room to be present in things. And that was just such a beautiful piece. So was just such a beautiful piece. So was just such a beautiful piece. So that's pillar number one. Pillar number that's pillar number one. Pillar number that's pillar number one. Pillar number two is people have to learn their own two is people have to learn their own two is people have to learn their own needs and how to meet them in the needs and how to meet them in the needs and how to meet them in the relationship to themselves. We'll get relationship to themselves. We'll get relationship to themselves. We'll get into how to communicate them after, but into how to communicate them after, but into how to communicate them after, but but in the relationship to self first. but in the relationship to self first. but in the relationship to self first. And the reason for this is it reminds me And the reason for this is it reminds me And the reason for this is it reminds me of one of my favorite quotes from Gabber of one of my favorite quotes from Gabber of one of my favorite quotes from Gabber Mate. And he says trauma are the things Mate. And he says trauma are the things Mate. And he says trauma are the things that happened that shouldn't have that happened that shouldn't have that happened that shouldn't have happened. That's the obvious like the happened. That's the obvious like the happened. That's the obvious like the the abuse things like that in childhood. the abuse things like that in childhood. the abuse things like that in childhood. But trauma is also the things that But trauma is also the things that But trauma is also the things that happened or that sorry that didn't happened or that sorry that didn't happened or that sorry that didn't happen that should have happened. And happen that should have happened. And happen that should have happened. And that's like the neglect you know or that's like the neglect you know or that's like the neglect you know or that's that maybe you didn't feel safe that's that maybe you didn't feel safe that's that maybe you didn't feel safe as as a child or seen or protected or as as a child or seen or protected or as as a child or seen or protected or you didn't feel like your parents were you didn't feel like your parents were you didn't feel like your parents were present enough with you growing up. So present enough with you growing up. So present enough with you growing up. So that's also trauma because in a perfect that's also trauma because in a perfect that's also trauma because in a perfect world, we actually would have had our world, we actually would have had our world, we actually would have had our needs met in a healthy and consistent needs met in a healthy and consistent needs met in a healthy and consistent way where we felt like we could really way where we felt like we could really way where we felt like we could really rely on people. And so that's our second rely on people. And so that's our second rely on people. And so that's our second pillar is I get people to go in and pillar is I get people to go in and pillar is I get people to go in and audit what are your biggest unmet needs audit what are your biggest unmet needs audit what are your biggest unmet needs from childhood. And you'll see people from childhood. And you'll see people from childhood. And you'll see people for some people it's like I didn't feel for some people it's like I didn't feel for some people it's like I didn't feel like my parents were present enough with like my parents were present enough with like my parents were present enough with me or I didn't feel protected or I me or I didn't feel protected or I me or I didn't feel protected or I didn't feel like I had that ability to didn't feel like I had that ability to didn't feel like I had that ability to really learn from a parent or be deeply really learn from a parent or be deeply really learn from a parent or be deeply seen or known or attuned to. I mean seen or known or attuned to. I mean seen or known or attuned to. I mean there's there's a lot of needs in there, there's there's a lot of needs in there, there's there's a lot of needs in there, but we we give a big list of needs and but we we give a big list of needs and but we we give a big list of needs and it's okay if these are your deepest it's okay if these are your deepest it's okay if these are your deepest unmet needs. What's really interesting unmet needs. What's really interesting unmet needs. What's really interesting is we internalize all of that is we internalize all of that is we internalize all of that conditioning. conditioning. conditioning. >> And so whatever we didn't get met, we're >> And so whatever we didn't get met, we're >> And so whatever we didn't get met, we're often not meeting in the relationship to often not meeting in the relationship to often not meeting in the relationship to self. If somebody wasn't present enough self. If somebody wasn't present enough self. If somebody wasn't present enough with you growing up, that's actually a with you growing up, that's actually a with you growing up, that's actually a huge part of healing is okay, well, I'm huge part of healing is okay, well, I'm huge part of healing is okay, well, I'm probably not very present with myself. probably not very present with myself. probably not very present with myself. Or if people said, I really need Or if people said, I really need Or if people said, I really need validation. I didn't feel validated validation. I didn't feel validated validation. I didn't feel validated growing up. Um, unfortunately, usually growing up. Um, unfortunately, usually growing up. Um, unfortunately, usually you're playing up that programming and you're playing up that programming and you're playing up that programming and you're the one struggling to validate you're the one struggling to validate you're the one struggling to validate yourself the most and you're sort of yourself the most and you're sort of yourself the most and you're sort of validating everybody else before you. validating everybody else before you. validating everybody else before you. And so, what's really beautiful is it's And so, what's really beautiful is it's And so, what's really beautiful is it's deeply healing for people to go in audit deeply healing for people to go in audit deeply healing for people to go in audit where they're missing these deep needs. where they're missing these deep needs. where they're missing these deep needs. And then for 21 days through that And then for 21 days through that And then for 21 days through that repetition and emotion to really fire repetition and emotion to really fire repetition and emotion to really fire and wire those neural networks, we get and wire those neural networks, we get and wire those neural networks, we get people to go through here are my deepest people to go through here are my deepest people to go through here are my deepest unmet needs and actual actions and unmet needs and actual actions and unmet needs and actual actions and practices to meet them within practices to meet them within practices to meet them within relationship to self. And once we do it relationship to self. And once we do it relationship to self. And once we do it for 21 days very repeatedly and it for 21 days very repeatedly and it for 21 days very repeatedly and it elicits this emotional impact and we're elicits this emotional impact and we're elicits this emotional impact and we're doing it physiologically. So we have doing it physiologically. So we have doing it physiologically. So we have that like imagery that we're reaching that like imagery that we're reaching that like imagery that we're reaching our subconscious mind. We that becomes our subconscious mind. We that becomes our subconscious mind. We that becomes our new baseline. It becomes our new set our new baseline. It becomes our new set our new baseline. It becomes our new set point and we just become good at doing point and we just become good at doing point and we just become good at doing those things. And as an example as those things. And as an example as those things. And as an example as somebody who did all this work on myself somebody who did all this work on myself somebody who did all this work on myself first 14 years ago, 15 years ago um one first 14 years ago, 15 years ago um one first 14 years ago, 15 years ago um one of the biggest things I really wanted of the biggest things I really wanted of the biggest things I really wanted was emotional depth. Like I always cared was emotional depth. Like I always cared was emotional depth. Like I always cared about that with other people and liking about that with other people and liking about that with other people and liking to go deep into things. And I realized to go deep into things. And I realized to go deep into things. And I realized oh my gosh I'm trying to and we always oh my gosh I'm trying to and we always oh my gosh I'm trying to and we always do this. We try to resource from other do this. We try to resource from other do this. We try to resource from other people the most. The things we struggle people the most. The things we struggle people the most. The things we struggle to self-source. to self-source. to self-source. >> Yes. Yeah. Well said. >> Yes. Yeah. Well said. >> Yes. Yeah. Well said. >> Yeah. We try to resource the most from >> Yeah. We try to resource the most from >> Yeah. We try to resource the most from other people the things that we struggle other people the things that we struggle other people the things that we struggle to self-source the most within self. And to self-source the most within self. And to self-source the most within self. And so what ends up taking place is that we so what ends up taking place is that we so what ends up taking place is that we also put all that pressure on their also put all that pressure on their also put all that pressure on their relationships. You know, anxious relationships. You know, anxious relationships. You know, anxious attachment cells, for example, they attachment cells, for example, they attachment cells, for example, they really struggle to self soo. So they're really struggle to self soo. So they're really struggle to self soo. So they're like, "My partner always needs to be like, "My partner always needs to be like, "My partner always needs to be available to soo me." Or fearful available to soo me." Or fearful available to soo me." Or fearful avoidance end up being like, "I don't avoidance end up being like, "I don't avoidance end up being like, "I don't know if I can trust people. I feel like know if I can trust people. I feel like know if I can trust people. I feel like they're going to betray me." So that they're going to betray me." So that they're going to betray me." So that person better always be 100% congruent. person better always be 100% congruent. person better always be 100% congruent. they better never tell a white lie, they better never tell a white lie, they better never tell a white lie, nothing. Or I or you know, I might have nothing. Or I or you know, I might have nothing. Or I or you know, I might have to leave the relationship. Or dismissal to leave the relationship. Or dismissal to leave the relationship. Or dismissal avoidance. They end up in situations avoidance. They end up in situations avoidance. They end up in situations where they're going, "Okay, well, I where they're going, "Okay, well, I where they're going, "Okay, well, I don't, you know, I don't know that that don't, you know, I don't know that that don't, you know, I don't know that that people understand me." And, you know, I people understand me." And, you know, I people understand me." And, you know, I really need them to understand me really need them to understand me really need them to understand me without me having to communicate because without me having to communicate because without me having to communicate because they really struggle to communicate they really struggle to communicate they really struggle to communicate vulnerably. So, we all accidentally vulnerably. So, we all accidentally vulnerably. So, we all accidentally pressure our external relationships pressure our external relationships pressure our external relationships because we don't know how to because we don't know how to because we don't know how to self-source. And so, self-sourcing is self-source. And so, self-sourcing is self-source. And so, self-sourcing is obviously profoundly healing for our obviously profoundly healing for our obviously profoundly healing for our relationships in life. Um, but also it's relationships in life. Um, but also it's relationships in life. Um, but also it's profoundly healing in the relationship profoundly healing in the relationship profoundly healing in the relationship to self first. to self first. to self first. >> Where does self-sourcing come from when >> Where does self-sourcing come from when >> Where does self-sourcing come from when you've never had it and never felt it? you've never had it and never felt it? you've never had it and never felt it? Like I think people struggle to like Like I think people struggle to like Like I think people struggle to like where do you find it? Because I'll often where do you find it? Because I'll often where do you find it? Because I'll often talk to my friends about this idea of talk to my friends about this idea of talk to my friends about this idea of self- validation. self- validation. self- validation. And I'll talk about how self- validation And I'll talk about how self- validation And I'll talk about how self- validation is the most powerful form of validation is the most powerful form of validation is the most powerful form of validation I've ever given myself, more than any I've ever given myself, more than any I've ever given myself, more than any form of external validation. But often form of external validation. But often form of external validation. But often something they come up against is like something they come up against is like something they come up against is like where do you even find that? Where do where do you even find that? Where do where do you even find that? Where do you discover that? Because if no one's you discover that? Because if no one's you discover that? Because if no one's ever validated you if you've never ever validated you if you've never ever validated you if you've never experienced it, where does it appear experienced it, where does it appear experienced it, where does it appear from? from? from? >> Okay, so really beautiful question. So >> Okay, so really beautiful question. So >> Okay, so really beautiful question. So this is the analogy I give to people all this is the analogy I give to people all this is the analogy I give to people all the time for this. It's not the the time for this. It's not the the time for this. It's not the prettiest analogy, but it's the cold prettiest analogy, but it's the cold prettiest analogy, but it's the cold hard truth. If you remember the first hard truth. If you remember the first hard truth. If you remember the first time I ever started to drive a car, I time I ever started to drive a car, I time I ever started to drive a car, I remember the first time I tried to drive remember the first time I tried to drive remember the first time I tried to drive a car. I was so excited to drive a car a car. I was so excited to drive a car a car. I was so excited to drive a car and then I got on the highway and I was and then I got on the highway and I was and then I got on the highway and I was like, "Oh my god, keep the wheel turn, like, "Oh my god, keep the wheel turn, like, "Oh my god, keep the wheel turn, you know, keep between the lines and you know, keep between the lines and you know, keep between the lines and look in your rearview mirror and your look in your rearview mirror and your look in your rearview mirror and your side mirrors and put your signal and oh, side mirrors and put your signal and oh, side mirrors and put your signal and oh, like I just felt like, oh my gosh, it's like I just felt like, oh my gosh, it's like I just felt like, oh my gosh, it's very mechanical to learn to drive a car very mechanical to learn to drive a car very mechanical to learn to drive a car and then you do it for a while and then and then you do it for a while and then and then you do it for a while and then you end up in a situation where you're, you end up in a situation where you're, you end up in a situation where you're, you know, a year later or in a pretty you know, a year later or in a pretty you know, a year later or in a pretty short time later, you know, 30 days short time later, you know, 30 days short time later, you know, 30 days later, you're listening to a podcast later, you're listening to a podcast later, you're listening to a podcast while you're driving or listening to while you're driving or listening to while you're driving or listening to your favorite radio station or putting your favorite radio station or putting your favorite radio station or putting on music or talking on the phone to your on music or talking on the phone to your on music or talking on the phone to your friend, whatever it might be." And it's friend, whatever it might be." And it's friend, whatever it might be." And it's because what we're actually doing is because what we're actually doing is because what we're actually doing is doing something that at first feels doing something that at first feels doing something that at first feels mechanical. We're giving to ourselves mechanical. We're giving to ourselves mechanical. We're giving to ourselves what we didn't get. And over time what we didn't get. And over time what we didn't get. And over time through repetition and emotion, it through repetition and emotion, it through repetition and emotion, it actually seeps into our subconscious actually seeps into our subconscious actually seeps into our subconscious mind. And that's when it feels normal mind. And that's when it feels normal mind. And that's when it feels normal and natural. So what we get people to do and natural. So what we get people to do and natural. So what we get people to do is we actually have a list of every is we actually have a list of every is we actually have a list of every major need um that people reported over major need um that people reported over major need um that people reported over collecting all this data. And then we collecting all this data. And then we collecting all this data. And then we have people we have like three or four, have people we have like three or four, have people we have like three or four, hey, you can do these three or four hey, you can do these three or four hey, you can do these three or four things that are usually the healthiest, things that are usually the healthiest, things that are usually the healthiest, most direct ways of getting those needs most direct ways of getting those needs most direct ways of getting those needs met. And then we get them to actively met. And then we get them to actively met. And then we get them to actively practice it across that 21 days. So, for practice it across that 21 days. So, for practice it across that 21 days. So, for example, self- validation is usually example, self- validation is usually example, self- validation is usually things like it can be as small as just things like it can be as small as just things like it can be as small as just writing out three of your wins each day writing out three of your wins each day writing out three of your wins each day and just taking the time to really pause and just taking the time to really pause and just taking the time to really pause and be like, hey, I did this today. I'm and be like, hey, I did this today. I'm and be like, hey, I did this today. I'm proud of these things today, big or proud of these things today, big or proud of these things today, big or small. It can be like, I made it to work small. It can be like, I made it to work small. It can be like, I made it to work early. It can be anything, but just early. It can be anything, but just early. It can be anything, but just having that ability to start training having that ability to start training having that ability to start training your subconscious mind to practice your subconscious mind to practice your subconscious mind to practice recognizing those things in your life. recognizing those things in your life. recognizing those things in your life. And of course there's a slightly And of course there's a slightly And of course there's a slightly different one for for each need, but different one for for each need, but different one for for each need, but when people start giving those needs to when people start giving those needs to when people start giving those needs to themselves, this sounds very cliche, but themselves, this sounds very cliche, but themselves, this sounds very cliche, but I really believe that if we had I really believe that if we had I really believe that if we had attachment wounds growing up, healing attachment wounds growing up, healing attachment wounds growing up, healing really happens when we become our own really happens when we become our own really happens when we become our own parents. And instead of trying to parents. And instead of trying to parents. And instead of trying to externalize, our parents would have done externalize, our parents would have done externalize, our parents would have done it for us or perfectly like our parents it for us or perfectly like our parents it for us or perfectly like our parents are human beings too. And so when we are human beings too. And so when we are human beings too. And so when we give to ourselves what we felt like we give to ourselves what we felt like we give to ourselves what we felt like we couldn't access through them and we do couldn't access through them and we do couldn't access through them and we do it through that repetition, that's that it through that repetition, that's that it through that repetition, that's that second big pillar. second big pillar. second big pillar. >> Understood. Got it. Very clear. Yeah. >> Understood. Got it. Very clear. Yeah. >> Understood. Got it. Very clear. Yeah. You know, I'm glad that you clarified You know, I'm glad that you clarified You know, I'm glad that you clarified that piece about validation and and I that piece about validation and and I that piece about validation and and I assume what I'm hearing from you is it assume what I'm hearing from you is it assume what I'm hearing from you is it is practice. It is going to feel a bit is practice. It is going to feel a bit is practice. It is going to feel a bit awkward and uncomfortable, but there awkward and uncomfortable, but there awkward and uncomfortable, but there isn't another magic pill there or any isn't another magic pill there or any isn't another magic pill there or any piece of advice that solves it. It's piece of advice that solves it. It's piece of advice that solves it. It's like we're going to have to build that like we're going to have to build that like we're going to have to build that muscle muscle muscle >> over time of learning to validate >> over time of learning to validate >> over time of learning to validate ourselves which we just haven't ourselves which we just haven't ourselves which we just haven't developed. developed. developed. >> Exactly. Oh, and just the last thing you >> Exactly. Oh, and just the last thing you >> Exactly. Oh, and just the last thing you can look in the seven areas of life for can look in the seven areas of life for can look in the seven areas of life for for if some people are just really for if some people are just really for if some people are just really stuck. They sit at the sheet and they're stuck. They sit at the sheet and they're stuck. They sit at the sheet and they're like, "Okay, three wins. I have no idea. like, "Okay, three wins. I have no idea. like, "Okay, three wins. I have no idea. You can look through career, financial, You can look through career, financial, You can look through career, financial, mental, emotional, spiritual, physical mental, emotional, spiritual, physical mental, emotional, spiritual, physical relationships. You even break relationships. You even break relationships. You even break relationships down into friends, family, relationships down into friends, family, relationships down into friends, family, romantic. And sometimes that helps like romantic. And sometimes that helps like romantic. And sometimes that helps like those prompts can get the wheels those prompts can get the wheels those prompts can get the wheels turning. And it starts as something that turning. And it starts as something that turning. And it starts as something that you're sitting there doing, but it you're sitting there doing, but it you're sitting there doing, but it becomes something that usually by day becomes something that usually by day becomes something that usually by day seven or so, people are like, "Oh yeah, seven or so, people are like, "Oh yeah, seven or so, people are like, "Oh yeah, this is this, oh, three, like that took this is this, oh, three, like that took this is this, oh, three, like that took me 2 seconds. Oh, and and then what's me 2 seconds. Oh, and and then what's me 2 seconds. Oh, and and then what's really beautiful is we have this really beautiful is we have this really beautiful is we have this mechanism in our brain called the mechanism in our brain called the mechanism in our brain called the reticular activating system, and it's reticular activating system, and it's reticular activating system, and it's our filtering system of information. our filtering system of information. our filtering system of information. People always talk about this in the People always talk about this in the People always talk about this in the personal, oh, if you, you know, see a personal, oh, if you, you know, see a personal, oh, if you, you know, see a car and you're trying to buy a white car and you're trying to buy a white car and you're trying to buy a white Jeep, you're going to see a white Jeep Jeep, you're going to see a white Jeep Jeep, you're going to see a white Jeep everywhere. It is. It's your filtering everywhere. It is. It's your filtering everywhere. It is. It's your filtering system in that way. But it also filters system in that way. But it also filters system in that way. But it also filters information according to what we already information according to what we already information according to what we already believe. Um, and so, you know, if your believe. Um, and so, you know, if your believe. Um, and so, you know, if your core beliefs are working against you, core beliefs are working against you, core beliefs are working against you, then that that becomes problematic. But then that that becomes problematic. But then that that becomes problematic. But if you rewire them in pillar one, that if you rewire them in pillar one, that if you rewire them in pillar one, that helps a lot. Um, but also it according helps a lot. Um, but also it according helps a lot. Um, but also it according to the information you're really giving to the information you're really giving to the information you're really giving and taking in repeatedly, you start and taking in repeatedly, you start and taking in repeatedly, you start noticing more and more. It sort of opens noticing more and more. It sort of opens noticing more and more. It sort of opens up that filtering system to notice those up that filtering system to notice those up that filtering system to notice those things. So what's really beautiful is things. So what's really beautiful is things. So what's really beautiful is when people start doing that work, they when people start doing that work, they when people start doing that work, they often end up in a situation where often end up in a situation where often end up in a situation where they're going, "Oh yeah, I did have this they're going, "Oh yeah, I did have this they're going, "Oh yeah, I did have this win. Oh, and they notice it in real time win. Oh, and they notice it in real time win. Oh, and they notice it in real time throughout the day and they feel it." throughout the day and they feel it." throughout the day and they feel it." And so it really gives that ability to And so it really gives that ability to And so it really gives that ability to start noticing that in a more natural start noticing that in a more natural start noticing that in a more natural way across time. way across time. way across time. >> Absolutely. And step three, >> Absolutely. And step three, >> Absolutely. And step three, >> so a third pillar is nervous system >> so a third pillar is nervous system >> so a third pillar is nervous system work. So we always hear things like work. So we always hear things like work. So we always hear things like people are in sympathetic mode, you people are in sympathetic mode, you people are in sympathetic mode, you know, fight, flight, freeze or fawn mode know, fight, flight, freeze or fawn mode know, fight, flight, freeze or fawn mode or parasympathetic mode. It's actually or parasympathetic mode. It's actually or parasympathetic mode. It's actually particularly relevant to attachment particularly relevant to attachment particularly relevant to attachment styles because all three insecure styles because all three insecure styles because all three insecure attachment styles spend far too much attachment styles spend far too much attachment styles spend far too much time in fight or flight. time in fight or flight. time in fight or flight. >> Interesting. >> Interesting. >> Interesting. >> Yes. And it's because if you grow up in >> Yes. And it's because if you grow up in >> Yes. And it's because if you grow up in an environment where you don't feel an environment where you don't feel an environment where you don't feel fully safe because your needs are not fully safe because your needs are not fully safe because your needs are not met consistently enough and if you have met consistently enough and if you have met consistently enough and if you have more bears in the woods, aka core wounds more bears in the woods, aka core wounds more bears in the woods, aka core wounds or triggers, then you spend more time on or triggers, then you spend more time on or triggers, then you spend more time on high alert in various ways. So anxious high alert in various ways. So anxious high alert in various ways. So anxious attachment cells are very on alert about attachment cells are very on alert about attachment cells are very on alert about when people are going to abandon them. when people are going to abandon them. when people are going to abandon them. Dismissive avoidance are very much on Dismissive avoidance are very much on Dismissive avoidance are very much on high alert, but are they going to feel high alert, but are they going to feel high alert, but are they going to feel rejected and seem like they're defective rejected and seem like they're defective rejected and seem like they're defective or shamed? and they do they need to or shamed? and they do they need to or shamed? and they do they need to create space and not take you know not create space and not take you know not create space and not take you know not be a burden to anybody and fearful be a burden to anybody and fearful be a burden to anybody and fearful avoidance are are hyper vigilance it's avoidance are are hyper vigilance it's avoidance are are hyper vigilance it's about everything about all of the above about everything about all of the above about everything about all of the above and so um you know what ends up and so um you know what ends up and so um you know what ends up happening is your nervous system is in happening is your nervous system is in happening is your nervous system is in overdrive and a big part of healing is overdrive and a big part of healing is overdrive and a big part of healing is learning to get back into your body I've learning to get back into your body I've learning to get back into your body I've actually found deeply that each of the actually found deeply that each of the actually found deeply that each of the three insecure attachment cells three insecure attachment cells three insecure attachment cells struggles at the beginning to identify struggles at the beginning to identify struggles at the beginning to identify their emotions in real time which is a their emotions in real time which is a their emotions in real time which is a form of dissociation like people often form of dissociation like people often form of dissociation like people often think of dissociation as being this think of dissociation as being this think of dissociation as being this really traumatic catatonic thing but really traumatic catatonic thing but really traumatic catatonic thing but it's not people can spend a lot of time it's not people can spend a lot of time it's not people can spend a lot of time and mild dissociation. So, we do a and mild dissociation. So, we do a and mild dissociation. So, we do a couple of things. We we take people couple of things. We we take people couple of things. We we take people through a process of retraining their through a process of retraining their through a process of retraining their nervous system to do things like um nervous system to do things like um nervous system to do things like um completion cycle work and and a lot of completion cycle work and and a lot of completion cycle work and and a lot of that sort of polyagal theory work to to that sort of polyagal theory work to to that sort of polyagal theory work to to actually practice getting into actually practice getting into actually practice getting into parasympathetic nervous system over time parasympathetic nervous system over time parasympathetic nervous system over time so it becomes your new baseline. Um but so it becomes your new baseline. Um but so it becomes your new baseline. Um but we also one of my favorite practices and we also one of my favorite practices and we also one of my favorite practices and I was saying this to you before we I was saying this to you before we I was saying this to you before we recorded is when I started really diving recorded is when I started really diving recorded is when I started really diving deep into a lot of this work. did um 13 deep into a lot of this work. did um 13 deep into a lot of this work. did um 13 different certifications and everything different certifications and everything different certifications and everything from like CB to cognitive behavioral from like CB to cognitive behavioral from like CB to cognitive behavioral therapy to neural linguistic programming therapy to neural linguistic programming therapy to neural linguistic programming and hypnosis and just all this stuff. and hypnosis and just all this stuff. and hypnosis and just all this stuff. But I was actually like really rooted in But I was actually like really rooted in But I was actually like really rooted in a lot of studying all different um a lot of studying all different um a lot of studying all different um religions. Like I was really obsessed religions. Like I was really obsessed religions. Like I was really obsessed with spirituality and on sort of a with spirituality and on sort of a with spirituality and on sort of a spiritual journey. And I've always loved spiritual journey. And I've always loved spiritual journey. And I've always loved where those two things intersect. And I where those two things intersect. And I where those two things intersect. And I remember actually reading years ago one remember actually reading years ago one remember actually reading years ago one of Echarolei's books and it was all of Echarolei's books and it was all of Echarolei's books and it was all about the pain body. And at the time I about the pain body. And at the time I about the pain body. And at the time I was reading these case studies on um was reading these case studies on um was reading these case studies on um these individuals and they go into the these individuals and they go into the these individuals and they go into the the researchers were taking individuals the researchers were taking individuals the researchers were taking individuals and putting them in fMRI scanners and and putting them in fMRI scanners and and putting them in fMRI scanners and they were getting them in these fMRI they were getting them in these fMRI they were getting them in these fMRI scanners to um recall triggering scanners to um recall triggering scanners to um recall triggering experiences where they felt upset and experiences where they felt upset and experiences where they felt upset and then they were watching their brain then they were watching their brain then they were watching their brain activity. And what they found is that activity. And what they found is that activity. And what they found is that participants brain activity when they participants brain activity when they participants brain activity when they would feel triggered would drain out of would feel triggered would drain out of would feel triggered would drain out of the neoortex regions like the prefrontal the neoortex regions like the prefrontal the neoortex regions like the prefrontal cortex region of the brain and into the cortex region of the brain and into the cortex region of the brain and into the reptilian brain. and all this activity reptilian brain. and all this activity reptilian brain. and all this activity would come there and we've all seen would come there and we've all seen would come there and we've all seen people when they're triggered they people when they're triggered they people when they're triggered they become kind of the like reptilian become kind of the like reptilian become kind of the like reptilian animalistic version of themselves and so animalistic version of themselves and so animalistic version of themselves and so all of a sudden people would be sitting all of a sudden people would be sitting all of a sudden people would be sitting there in this sort of panicked state and there in this sort of panicked state and there in this sort of panicked state and what they would find is that people what they would find is that people what they would find is that people would start being disregulated like they would start being disregulated like they would start being disregulated like they would be in sympathetic nervous system would be in sympathetic nervous system would be in sympathetic nervous system fight or flight. They would see their fight or flight. They would see their fight or flight. They would see their heart rate increase their their um you heart rate increase their their um you heart rate increase their their um you know hair on the back of their neck know hair on the back of their neck know hair on the back of their neck often stand up. And then what they had often stand up. And then what they had often stand up. And then what they had participants do is they had them um participants do is they had them um participants do is they had them um practice just witnessing their emotions practice just witnessing their emotions practice just witnessing their emotions in their body and labeling the in their body and labeling the in their body and labeling the sensations which is a form of sematic sensations which is a form of sematic sensations which is a form of sematic processing. And they had them say okay processing. And they had them say okay processing. And they had them say okay you know in this experience instead of you know in this experience instead of you know in this experience instead of being so stuck in the story in their being so stuck in the story in their being so stuck in the story in their mind they had them go oh I feel you know mind they had them go oh I feel you know mind they had them go oh I feel you know anger and anger feels like heat across anger and anger feels like heat across anger and anger feels like heat across my chest and down my arms or I feel my chest and down my arms or I feel my chest and down my arms or I feel anxiety and that feels like butterflies anxiety and that feels like butterflies anxiety and that feels like butterflies in my stomach and a ball in my throat in my stomach and a ball in my throat in my stomach and a ball in my throat and a clenching in my jaw. And when they and a clenching in my jaw. And when they and a clenching in my jaw. And when they actually had people go through this, actually had people go through this, actually had people go through this, they found that all this brain activity they found that all this brain activity they found that all this brain activity came back online in the the neoortex came back online in the the neoortex came back online in the the neoortex regions of the brain. And it was so regions of the brain. And it was so regions of the brain. And it was so interesting cuz Zachar totally has this interesting cuz Zachar totally has this interesting cuz Zachar totally has this thing, oh the pain body, witness your thing, oh the pain body, witness your thing, oh the pain body, witness your emotion or you know being witnessing emotion or you know being witnessing emotion or you know being witnessing consciousness consciousness. And it's so consciousness consciousness. And it's so consciousness consciousness. And it's so beautiful to see people practice that beautiful to see people practice that beautiful to see people practice that because in real time when they are because in real time when they are because in real time when they are triggered before they're doing a lot of triggered before they're doing a lot of triggered before they're doing a lot of wound rewiring and meeting their needs, wound rewiring and meeting their needs, wound rewiring and meeting their needs, a really powerful practice is to do that a really powerful practice is to do that a really powerful practice is to do that form of sematic processing work which is form of sematic processing work which is form of sematic processing work which is yes do things to train your nervous yes do things to train your nervous yes do things to train your nervous system through breath work or meditation system through breath work or meditation system through breath work or meditation daily. All of those things are amazing. daily. All of those things are amazing. daily. All of those things are amazing. But in those moments throughout the day But in those moments throughout the day But in those moments throughout the day where you feel those emotions arise, where you feel those emotions arise, where you feel those emotions arise, practicing witnessing the sensations, practicing witnessing the sensations, practicing witnessing the sensations, being with the sensations, noticing what being with the sensations, noticing what being with the sensations, noticing what those sensations feel like in your body, those sensations feel like in your body, those sensations feel like in your body, it actually takes the emotional charge it actually takes the emotional charge it actually takes the emotional charge down quite strongly. And it gives people down quite strongly. And it gives people down quite strongly. And it gives people the opportunity to feel reeregulated and the opportunity to feel reeregulated and the opportunity to feel reeregulated and back to more of their conscious mind back to more of their conscious mind back to more of their conscious mind self again. And so, you know, we get self again. And so, you know, we get self again. And so, you know, we get people to practice that on a regular people to practice that on a regular people to practice that on a regular basis and it's powerful for emotional basis and it's powerful for emotional basis and it's powerful for emotional regulation. But my favorite part of it regulation. But my favorite part of it regulation. But my favorite part of it is that it gives you the gift of self is that it gives you the gift of self is that it gives you the gift of self attunement attunement attunement >> because rather than being in a position >> because rather than being in a position >> because rather than being in a position where we feel emotion, let's like hide where we feel emotion, let's like hide where we feel emotion, let's like hide it through scrolling on social media or it through scrolling on social media or it through scrolling on social media or turning on the TV or drinking a beer or turning on the TV or drinking a beer or turning on the TV or drinking a beer or whatever it might be, it's actually the whatever it might be, it's actually the whatever it might be, it's actually the practice of learning in hard moments to practice of learning in hard moments to practice of learning in hard moments to come back and return to being fully come back and return to being fully come back and return to being fully present within oneself. present within oneself. present within oneself. >> Yes, absolutely. I mean, just listening >> Yes, absolutely. I mean, just listening >> Yes, absolutely. I mean, just listening to you say that, it's almost like we're to you say that, it's almost like we're to you say that, it's almost like we're getting to a place not only of getting to a place not only of getting to a place not only of self-security or self soothing, it's self-security or self soothing, it's self-security or self soothing, it's self-regulation. self-regulation. self-regulation. And we're gaining the ability to not And we're gaining the ability to not And we're gaining the ability to not expect our partner to regulate our expect our partner to regulate our expect our partner to regulate our emotions, regulate our nervous system, emotions, regulate our nervous system, emotions, regulate our nervous system, which is contagious. And we are going which is contagious. And we are going which is contagious. And we are going to, you know, blend and bond in energy. to, you know, blend and bond in energy. to, you know, blend and bond in energy. But I feel so many of us, our nervous But I feel so many of us, our nervous But I feel so many of us, our nervous system is completely dependent on system is completely dependent on system is completely dependent on everyone else around us. And therefore, everyone else around us. And therefore, everyone else around us. And therefore, we can feel really good when we're with we can feel really good when we're with we can feel really good when we're with someone, feel really bad when we're with someone, feel really bad when we're with someone, feel really bad when we're with someone else, and we have no control someone else, and we have no control someone else, and we have no control anymore. So, Ta, tell us about pillar anymore. So, Ta, tell us about pillar anymore. So, Ta, tell us about pillar four. four. four. >> So, pillar four, so you actually said >> So, pillar four, so you actually said >> So, pillar four, so you actually said this a moment ago, and I thought this this a moment ago, and I thought this this a moment ago, and I thought this was, you were like on the money. You was, you were like on the money. You was, you were like on the money. You knew it was coming. So, you mentioned um knew it was coming. So, you mentioned um knew it was coming. So, you mentioned um regulation. So, people regulating regulation. So, people regulating regulation. So, people regulating through other people. And what I through other people. And what I through other people. And what I actually found over and over again for actually found over and over again for actually found over and over again for people is that people can't co-regulate people is that people can't co-regulate people is that people can't co-regulate very effectively in relationships if very effectively in relationships if very effectively in relationships if they have no ability to self they have no ability to self they have no ability to self self-regulate on their own. because it self-regulate on their own. because it self-regulate on their own. because it goes back to that kind of concept where goes back to that kind of concept where goes back to that kind of concept where they over pressure the person to kind of they over pressure the person to kind of they over pressure the person to kind of do it for them. And that may work in do it for them. And that may work in do it for them. And that may work in specific cases for periods of time like specific cases for periods of time like specific cases for periods of time like oh you have a friend there and they oh you have a friend there and they oh you have a friend there and they really help you and they make you feel really help you and they make you feel really help you and they make you feel better. But like let's take an anxious better. But like let's take an anxious better. But like let's take an anxious attachment. somebody who's very attachment. somebody who's very attachment. somebody who's very anxiously attached, for example, they anxiously attached, for example, they anxiously attached, for example, they would usually end up in these themes or would usually end up in these themes or would usually end up in these themes or patterns over time where they would patterns over time where they would patterns over time where they would always be relying on their friends to do always be relying on their friends to do always be relying on their friends to do that. And then eventually their friends that. And then eventually their friends that. And then eventually their friends say, "Well, they always come to me for say, "Well, they always come to me for say, "Well, they always come to me for stuff, but then they don't change their stuff, but then they don't change their stuff, but then they don't change their patterns or behaviors. And then the patterns or behaviors. And then the patterns or behaviors. And then the friend starts kind of drifting back or friend starts kind of drifting back or friend starts kind of drifting back or pulling away or not being as present." pulling away or not being as present." pulling away or not being as present." And then the anxious person gets And then the anxious person gets And then the anxious person gets frustrated or stressed and then the the frustrated or stressed and then the the frustrated or stressed and then the the other friend is becoming more resentful other friend is becoming more resentful other friend is becoming more resentful and it just what may work in the short and it just what may work in the short and it just what may work in the short term isn't really working in the long term isn't really working in the long term isn't really working in the long term unless we learn to to term unless we learn to to term unless we learn to to self-regulate. So in those five pillars, self-regulate. So in those five pillars, self-regulate. So in those five pillars, the first three are all about self. the first three are all about self. the first three are all about self. They're all about how do I heal my own They're all about how do I heal my own They're all about how do I heal my own internal conditioning, rewire the internal conditioning, rewire the internal conditioning, rewire the wounds, meet my own needs, regulate my wounds, meet my own needs, regulate my wounds, meet my own needs, regulate my own nervous system. The next two are own nervous system. The next two are own nervous system. The next two are actually about regulating with so with actually about regulating with so with actually about regulating with so with people together. So the next two pillars people together. So the next two pillars people together. So the next two pillars are about communication and boundaries. are about communication and boundaries. are about communication and boundaries. So what we do for the communication So what we do for the communication So what we do for the communication pillar number four is now that we know pillar number four is now that we know pillar number four is now that we know our needs, we can go communicate about our needs, we can go communicate about our needs, we can go communicate about them. And what often happens is people them. And what often happens is people them. And what often happens is people go through life go through life go through life >> and they they don't even know what they >> and they they don't even know what they >> and they they don't even know what they need in a relationship need in a relationship need in a relationship >> and then we're left saying things like, >> and then we're left saying things like, >> and then we're left saying things like, "Oh, you hurt me and you did this." And "Oh, you hurt me and you did this." And "Oh, you hurt me and you did this." And I've seen this all the time with I've seen this all the time with I've seen this all the time with communication. communication. communication. >> Even if people are so well-meaning when >> Even if people are so well-meaning when >> Even if people are so well-meaning when they say, "Hey, even if they're trying they say, "Hey, even if they're trying they say, "Hey, even if they're trying to be vulnerable and they're saying, to be vulnerable and they're saying, to be vulnerable and they're saying, "Hey, you hurt me last week when XYZ "Hey, you hurt me last week when XYZ "Hey, you hurt me last week when XYZ happened." The other partner is like, happened." The other partner is like, happened." The other partner is like, "Okay, I don't want to hurt you, but I "Okay, I don't want to hurt you, but I "Okay, I don't want to hurt you, but I don't know how to solve for it." don't know how to solve for it." don't know how to solve for it." >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And unless we're actually empowered to >> And unless we're actually empowered to >> And unless we're actually empowered to know what we need, then we can't say know what we need, then we can't say know what we need, then we can't say those things properly. So the those things properly. So the those things properly. So the communication pillar is about us taking communication pillar is about us taking communication pillar is about us taking our learning and understanding of self our learning and understanding of self our learning and understanding of self now we know our triggers we know our now we know our triggers we know our now we know our triggers we know our needs now we are equipped to do the work needs now we are equipped to do the work needs now we are equipped to do the work with other people and so what I get with other people and so what I get with other people and so what I get people to do and it depends like we have people to do and it depends like we have people to do and it depends like we have a couple of frameworks but one is a couple of frameworks but one is a couple of frameworks but one is whenever we are in a conflict like if whenever we are in a conflict like if whenever we are in a conflict like if that's ever coming up for us people feel that's ever coming up for us people feel that's ever coming up for us people feel very resolved in conflict when they do very resolved in conflict when they do very resolved in conflict when they do basically three things both parties have basically three things both parties have basically three things both parties have to communicate what came up for them in to communicate what came up for them in to communicate what came up for them in the conflict and then validate each the conflict and then validate each the conflict and then validate each other's emotions step one okay so other's emotions step one okay so other's emotions step one okay so validate each other's emotions step two validate each other's emotions step two validate each other's emotions step two then we have to say what we need. And then we have to say what we need. And then we have to say what we need. And step three, we have to paint a picture step three, we have to paint a picture step three, we have to paint a picture of what that looks like. of what that looks like. of what that looks like. >> Because I ran far too many times into >> Because I ran far too many times into >> Because I ran far too many times into situations with couples who I remember situations with couples who I remember situations with couples who I remember working with with a couple once years working with with a couple once years working with with a couple once years ago and and it was a husband and wife ago and and it was a husband and wife ago and and it was a husband and wife and they they uh had this conversation. and they they uh had this conversation. and they they uh had this conversation. The wife said, "I I need to feel more The wife said, "I I need to feel more The wife said, "I I need to feel more supported in this relationship." And I supported in this relationship." And I supported in this relationship." And I was like a year into working with with was like a year into working with with was like a year into working with with couples and they seem to have a really couples and they seem to have a really couples and they seem to have a really constructive conversation about it. and constructive conversation about it. and constructive conversation about it. and they left and they came back the next they left and they came back the next they left and they came back the next week and literally before they sat on week and literally before they sat on week and literally before they sat on the couch like they didn't even finish the couch like they didn't even finish the couch like they didn't even finish sitting down and and the wife said, "My sitting down and and the wife said, "My sitting down and and the wife said, "My husband didn't even support me this husband didn't even support me this husband didn't even support me this week. We talked about it and he didn't week. We talked about it and he didn't week. We talked about it and he didn't even try." And the husband like looked even try." And the husband like looked even try." And the husband like looked shocked and he was like, "What do you shocked and he was like, "What do you shocked and he was like, "What do you mean? I took out the trash. I did the mean? I took out the trash. I did the mean? I took out the trash. I did the dishes. I tried to help out around the dishes. I tried to help out around the dishes. I tried to help out around the house." And she was like, "Oh, but house." And she was like, "Oh, but house." And she was like, "Oh, but support for me is somebody actually like support for me is somebody actually like support for me is somebody actually like giving me encouragement and words of giving me encouragement and words of giving me encouragement and words of affirmation and telling me like they affirmation and telling me like they affirmation and telling me like they love me, they appreciate me, noticing my love me, they appreciate me, noticing my love me, they appreciate me, noticing my hard work. That's support." And so we hard work. That's support." And so we hard work. That's support." And so we have to paint the picture of what the have to paint the picture of what the have to paint the picture of what the need looks like. So, so it's clear. So, need looks like. So, so it's clear. So, need looks like. So, so it's clear. So, for example, let's say two people are in for example, let's say two people are in for example, let's say two people are in a conflict and let's say it's an anxious a conflict and let's say it's an anxious a conflict and let's say it's an anxious and a dismissive avoidant and the and a dismissive avoidant and the and a dismissive avoidant and the anxious person saying, "Hey, like you're anxious person saying, "Hey, like you're anxious person saying, "Hey, like you're not calling me enough." Often what not calling me enough." Often what not calling me enough." Often what happens when people try to communicate happens when people try to communicate happens when people try to communicate is they do what we call negative is they do what we call negative is they do what we call negative branding. So, you know, and I always say branding. So, you know, and I always say branding. So, you know, and I always say to people behind every criticism is just to people behind every criticism is just to people behind every criticism is just a need. a need. a need. >> And we say, "You don't care about me. >> And we say, "You don't care about me. >> And we say, "You don't care about me. You didn't call me enough. You didn't You didn't call me enough. You didn't You didn't call me enough. You didn't make an effort." And all that people make an effort." And all that people make an effort." And all that people hear when that happens is that you're hear when that happens is that you're hear when that happens is that you're criticizing them. Yeah. criticizing them. Yeah. criticizing them. Yeah. >> Because as a child when you were >> Because as a child when you were >> Because as a child when you were criticized what happened, you then got criticized what happened, you then got criticized what happened, you then got punished. So now you're bracing for punished. So now you're bracing for punished. So now you're bracing for punishment, not trying to figure out and punishment, not trying to figure out and punishment, not trying to figure out and decipher what somebody's needs are. decipher what somebody's needs are. decipher what somebody's needs are. >> So we would get to free frame, you know, >> So we would get to free frame, you know, >> So we would get to free frame, you know, behind that actual experience. What is behind that actual experience. What is behind that actual experience. What is the need? Convert your criticism into a the need? Convert your criticism into a the need? Convert your criticism into a need. And it's like, okay, well, if you need. And it's like, okay, well, if you need. And it's like, okay, well, if you said you didn't call me enough, said you didn't call me enough, said you didn't call me enough, obviously the need is for more obviously the need is for more obviously the need is for more consistency in in calling or consistency in in calling or consistency in in calling or communication. Good. Paint the picture. communication. Good. Paint the picture. communication. Good. Paint the picture. What does that actually look like? Oh, What does that actually look like? Oh, What does that actually look like? Oh, that looks like a call every evening for that looks like a call every evening for that looks like a call every evening for 15 minutes before bed or once a week. 15 minutes before bed or once a week. 15 minutes before bed or once a week. Whatever it is, we got to get really Whatever it is, we got to get really Whatever it is, we got to get really specific cuz otherwise it gets lost in specific cuz otherwise it gets lost in specific cuz otherwise it gets lost in translation like 90% of the time. So translation like 90% of the time. So translation like 90% of the time. So what we do is we get people to say, what we do is we get people to say, what we do is we get people to say, "Hey, this is what came up for me." So "Hey, this is what came up for me." So "Hey, this is what came up for me." So for example, "Hey, I felt a little bit for example, "Hey, I felt a little bit for example, "Hey, I felt a little bit hurt this week because I didn't hear hurt this week because I didn't hear hurt this week because I didn't hear from you as much as I hoped to. And can from you as much as I hoped to. And can from you as much as I hoped to. And can we do a call every evening before bed we do a call every evening before bed we do a call every evening before bed for 15 minutes?" And when they're able for 15 minutes?" And when they're able for 15 minutes?" And when they're able to say that, now we actually have to say that, now we actually have to say that, now we actually have constructive communication. And then we constructive communication. And then we constructive communication. And then we flip it back around because if there was flip it back around because if there was flip it back around because if there was a conflict, usually there's two sides. a conflict, usually there's two sides. a conflict, usually there's two sides. And then maybe the person on the other And then maybe the person on the other And then maybe the person on the other side, if it originally wasn't done well, side, if it originally wasn't done well, side, if it originally wasn't done well, they say, "Oh, like if somebody was a they say, "Oh, like if somebody was a they say, "Oh, like if somebody was a little bit critical, they might say, little bit critical, they might say, little bit critical, they might say, "Okay, I hear your need. I can see why "Okay, I hear your need. I can see why "Okay, I hear your need. I can see why you felt like that." So they validate you felt like that." So they validate you felt like that." So they validate the person's feelings. And then they the person's feelings. And then they the person's feelings. And then they turn around and they get to say, "Okay, turn around and they get to say, "Okay, turn around and they get to say, "Okay, and you know, for me, I'm a little and you know, for me, I'm a little and you know, for me, I'm a little sensitive. If communication is harsh or sensitive. If communication is harsh or sensitive. If communication is harsh or a little critical, and not that that a little critical, and not that that a little critical, and not that that example was harsh, but oftentimes that's example was harsh, but oftentimes that's example was harsh, but oftentimes that's how it starts." And so they might say, how it starts." And so they might say, how it starts." And so they might say, you know, can you just be a little bit you know, can you just be a little bit you know, can you just be a little bit more mindful with your delivery in next more mindful with your delivery in next more mindful with your delivery in next time? And then I'll be more mindful in time? And then I'll be more mindful in time? And then I'll be more mindful in terms of communicating and calling more terms of communicating and calling more terms of communicating and calling more consistently. I think we can make that consistently. I think we can make that consistently. I think we can make that work. And that's how we really resolve. work. And that's how we really resolve. work. And that's how we really resolve. So each person expresses their feeling So each person expresses their feeling So each person expresses their feeling and gets it validated, shares their and gets it validated, shares their and gets it validated, shares their need, paints a picture for what it looks need, paints a picture for what it looks need, paints a picture for what it looks like. And it's something you can like. And it's something you can like. And it's something you can actually train yourself to do naturally. actually train yourself to do naturally. actually train yourself to do naturally. And we get people to get into the the And we get people to get into the the And we get people to get into the the mindset of going feeling need, feeling mindset of going feeling need, feeling mindset of going feeling need, feeling need, like just know your feelings and need, like just know your feelings and need, like just know your feelings and needs. And if it's top of mind, and if needs. And if it's top of mind, and if needs. And if it's top of mind, and if each person feels like they're able to each person feels like they're able to each person feels like they're able to communicate it that way, that's where we communicate it that way, that's where we communicate it that way, that's where we get real resolution. And then that's get real resolution. And then that's get real resolution. And then that's where we get actual breakthroughs. And I where we get actual breakthroughs. And I where we get actual breakthroughs. And I truly believe that doing the work truly believe that doing the work truly believe that doing the work together in a relationship to become together in a relationship to become together in a relationship to become secure, you have to become good at secure, you have to become good at secure, you have to become good at having those conversations. I feel like having those conversations. I feel like having those conversations. I feel like a lot of people struggle to do that for a lot of people struggle to do that for a lot of people struggle to do that for two reasons. One is when they're saying two reasons. One is when they're saying two reasons. One is when they're saying their need, their need is based on their their need, their need is based on their their need, their need is based on their attachment style. And if it's one of the attachment style. And if it's one of the attachment style. And if it's one of the anxious attachment styles, often their anxious attachment styles, often their anxious attachment styles, often their need can feel like a burden to the other need can feel like a burden to the other need can feel like a burden to the other person because it's such a intense person because it's such a intense person because it's such a intense demand where the other person just goes. demand where the other person just goes. demand where the other person just goes. And so we're so a lot of people know And so we're so a lot of people know And so we're so a lot of people know that their need is intense. Therefore, that their need is intense. Therefore, that their need is intense. Therefore, they won't verbalize it because they they won't verbalize it because they they won't verbalize it because they actually think it will push the other actually think it will push the other actually think it will push the other person away. So, if they don't say it, person away. So, if they don't say it, person away. So, if they don't say it, it bruise up and then one day it pops up it bruise up and then one day it pops up it bruise up and then one day it pops up and you break up anyway or they say it, and you break up anyway or they say it, and you break up anyway or they say it, it's a burden to the other person and it's a burden to the other person and it's a burden to the other person and the other person goes, "Well, I can't do the other person goes, "Well, I can't do the other person goes, "Well, I can't do that." And then they walk away. So, how that." And then they walk away. So, how that." And then they walk away. So, how do we know our need is valid or is do we know our need is valid or is do we know our need is valid or is realistic? realistic? realistic? And how do we know if the if our partner And how do we know if the if our partner And how do we know if the if our partner is even should be capable of doing that is even should be capable of doing that is even should be capable of doing that need? Because I think a lot of people need? Because I think a lot of people need? Because I think a lot of people will be like, well, my need is every day will be like, well, my need is every day will be like, well, my need is every day I need someone to tell me I'm beautiful I need someone to tell me I'm beautiful I need someone to tell me I'm beautiful and amazing or every day I need, you and amazing or every day I need, you and amazing or every day I need, you know, it's like, well, maybe someone know, it's like, well, maybe someone know, it's like, well, maybe someone else doesn't have the capacity to do else doesn't have the capacity to do else doesn't have the capacity to do that. Okay, so I love this question and that. Okay, so I love this question and that. Okay, so I love this question and this is why we do 90-day frameworks for this is why we do 90-day frameworks for this is why we do 90-day frameworks for people and the first 30 days are people and the first 30 days are people and the first 30 days are rewiring your core wounds first rewiring your core wounds first rewiring your core wounds first >> because then you don't have these things >> because then you don't have these things >> because then you don't have these things that are causing a lot of that negative that are causing a lot of that negative that are causing a lot of that negative internal dialogue that will then internal dialogue that will then internal dialogue that will then overpressure you to source from somebody overpressure you to source from somebody overpressure you to source from somebody else. So if if somebody feels not good else. So if if somebody feels not good else. So if if somebody feels not good enough, they're going to be like, "You enough, they're going to be like, "You enough, they're going to be like, "You better tell me I'm good enough all day, better tell me I'm good enough all day, better tell me I'm good enough all day, every day." But if we learn to do the every day." But if we learn to do the every day." But if we learn to do the rewiring first is pillar number one. And rewiring first is pillar number one. And rewiring first is pillar number one. And then pillar number two is that we learn then pillar number two is that we learn then pillar number two is that we learn to selfsource because now we're filling to selfsource because now we're filling to selfsource because now we're filling our cup halfway. And what's really our cup halfway. And what's really our cup halfway. And what's really powerful as soon as we start powerful as soon as we start powerful as soon as we start self-sourcing, we we ingrain that in self-sourcing, we we ingrain that in self-sourcing, we we ingrain that in that first 30 days. Well, now all of a that first 30 days. Well, now all of a that first 30 days. Well, now all of a sudden there's not this crazy amount of sudden there's not this crazy amount of sudden there's not this crazy amount of pressure and now it's really clear to pressure and now it's really clear to pressure and now it's really clear to say this is what I need. say this is what I need. say this is what I need. >> So by the time you get to this stage, >> So by the time you get to this stage, >> So by the time you get to this stage, your request is actually already more your request is actually already more your request is actually already more reasonable and thoughtful. reasonable and thoughtful. reasonable and thoughtful. >> But the problem is if you jump to this >> But the problem is if you jump to this >> But the problem is if you jump to this stage too quick, stage too quick, stage too quick, >> you could end up asking for something >> you could end up asking for something >> you could end up asking for something you should be self-sourcing for. you should be self-sourcing for. you should be self-sourcing for. >> Exactly. And that's that makes a lot of >> Exactly. And that's that makes a lot of >> Exactly. And that's that makes a lot of sense. sense. sense. >> Yeah. And that's where it's really >> Yeah. And that's where it's really >> Yeah. And that's where it's really important. And I love that you asked important. And I love that you asked important. And I love that you asked that because what ends up happening far that because what ends up happening far that because what ends up happening far too often and and this is a really crazy too often and and this is a really crazy too often and and this is a really crazy part of this is because our subconscious part of this is because our subconscious part of this is because our subconscious mind wants to maintain its comfort zone mind wants to maintain its comfort zone mind wants to maintain its comfort zone because it equates familiarity to safety because it equates familiarity to safety because it equates familiarity to safety and survival. So frequently people think and survival. So frequently people think and survival. So frequently people think that they want somebody to to give them that they want somebody to to give them that they want somebody to to give them their need and that's the solution. And their need and that's the solution. And their need and that's the solution. And let's take like typical example. Let's let's take like typical example. Let's let's take like typical example. Let's say somebody has they're anxiously say somebody has they're anxiously say somebody has they're anxiously attached. They believe they're not good attached. They believe they're not good attached. They believe they're not good enough. So now just by that they they enough. So now just by that they they enough. So now just by that they they have more negative internal dialogue. have more negative internal dialogue. have more negative internal dialogue. they're criticizing themselves, sort of they're criticizing themselves, sort of they're criticizing themselves, sort of magnifying their mistakes, minimizing magnifying their mistakes, minimizing magnifying their mistakes, minimizing their their wins in their own natural their their wins in their own natural their their wins in their own natural set point of their conditioning. Then set point of their conditioning. Then set point of their conditioning. Then they are often not meeting their own they are often not meeting their own they are often not meeting their own need to feel, you know, good enough or need to feel, you know, good enough or need to feel, you know, good enough or validated or reassured. So now they have validated or reassured. So now they have validated or reassured. So now they have what we what I call like a hole in your what we what I call like a hole in your what we what I call like a hole in your bucket. Like you're going to go and bucket. Like you're going to go and bucket. Like you're going to go and because the subconscious mind will only because the subconscious mind will only because the subconscious mind will only receive well what's familiar because it receive well what's familiar because it receive well what's familiar because it equates it to safety. Then you go and equates it to safety. Then you go and equates it to safety. Then you go and you say, "Oh, hey, tell me I'm good you say, "Oh, hey, tell me I'm good you say, "Oh, hey, tell me I'm good enough. Tell me all these things." But enough. Tell me all these things." But enough. Tell me all these things." But then it's like there's a hole in the then it's like there's a hole in the then it's like there's a hole in the bucket. feels really good when that that bucket. feels really good when that that bucket. feels really good when that that water is going into the bucket. You get water is going into the bucket. You get water is going into the bucket. You get that initial hit of dopamine. Oh my god, that initial hit of dopamine. Oh my god, that initial hit of dopamine. Oh my god, my partner said I'm good enough and then my partner said I'm good enough and then my partner said I'm good enough and then it just leaked right out. And then it just leaked right out. And then it just leaked right out. And then that's why you see anxious attachment that's why you see anxious attachment that's why you see anxious attachment cells needing so much of that because cells needing so much of that because cells needing so much of that because they first struggle with those two they first struggle with those two they first struggle with those two pillars so profoundly. And that's where pillars so profoundly. And that's where pillars so profoundly. And that's where we get, you know, confused in we get, you know, confused in we get, you know, confused in relationships because we're like you you relationships because we're like you you relationships because we're like you you need to do this, you need to do that. need to do this, you need to do that. need to do this, you need to do that. And then when it becomes unreasonable And then when it becomes unreasonable And then when it becomes unreasonable because it's coming from lack and because it's coming from lack and because it's coming from lack and imbalance first, then it puts too much imbalance first, then it puts too much imbalance first, then it puts too much pressure on relationships and becomes pressure on relationships and becomes pressure on relationships and becomes problematic. problematic. problematic. >> That that completely makes sense now. >> That that completely makes sense now. >> That that completely makes sense now. And and I and I'm thinking about a lot And and I and I'm thinking about a lot And and I and I'm thinking about a lot of people that I know who sadly feel a of people that I know who sadly feel a of people that I know who sadly feel a lot of shame and guilt for their needs lot of shame and guilt for their needs lot of shame and guilt for their needs from their attachment style, but without from their attachment style, but without from their attachment style, but without doing this work in this order as the doing this work in this order as the doing this work in this order as the pillars are being developed, you'll pillars are being developed, you'll pillars are being developed, you'll never actually request something in a never actually request something in a never actually request something in a healthy way that naturally healthy way that naturally healthy way that naturally will because it's coming from an anxious will because it's coming from an anxious will because it's coming from an anxious attachment style. attachment style. attachment style. >> Yeah, 100%. >> Yeah, 100%. >> Yeah, 100%. >> Ta, please tell us about pillar five. >> Ta, please tell us about pillar five. >> Ta, please tell us about pillar five. Okay. So the last pillar is learning Okay. So the last pillar is learning Okay. So the last pillar is learning healthy boundaries. So healthy healthy boundaries. So healthy healthy boundaries. So healthy boundaries when people hear them I think boundaries when people hear them I think boundaries when people hear them I think some people think especially more some people think especially more some people think especially more anxious attachment styles think that anxious attachment styles think that anxious attachment styles think that boundaries mean a separation but truly boundaries mean a separation but truly boundaries mean a separation but truly every boundary is a joining because a every boundary is a joining because a every boundary is a joining because a boundary is an authentic expression of boundary is an authentic expression of boundary is an authentic expression of your true yeses and your nos which is an your true yeses and your nos which is an your true yeses and your nos which is an authentic expression of you as a whole authentic expression of you as a whole authentic expression of you as a whole human being. And so you know when we human being. And so you know when we human being. And so you know when we look at boundaries per attachment style look at boundaries per attachment style look at boundaries per attachment style there's unique patterns. This is when I there's unique patterns. This is when I there's unique patterns. This is when I was like whoa each attachment style they was like whoa each attachment style they was like whoa each attachment style they each have these themes of boundaries. each have these themes of boundaries. each have these themes of boundaries. Anxious attachment cells are kind of Anxious attachment cells are kind of Anxious attachment cells are kind of boundaryless. Like if they're really boundaryless. Like if they're really boundaryless. Like if they're really anxiously attached, they struggle with anxiously attached, they struggle with anxiously attached, they struggle with boundaries altogether. And so they're boundaries altogether. And so they're boundaries altogether. And so they're going to end up people pleasing into going to end up people pleasing into going to end up people pleasing into oblivion. They get scared to set oblivion. They get scared to set oblivion. They get scared to set boundaries because they believe that boundaries because they believe that boundaries because they believe that boundaries are going to get them boundaries are going to get them boundaries are going to get them abandoned or disliked or rejected. Part abandoned or disliked or rejected. Part abandoned or disliked or rejected. Part of also why we do the core wound work of also why we do the core wound work of also why we do the core wound work first in that order. Um and so they end first in that order. Um and so they end first in that order. Um and so they end up just struggling with boundaries at up just struggling with boundaries at up just struggling with boundaries at all. all. all. >> Dismiss of avoidance, they set too >> Dismiss of avoidance, they set too >> Dismiss of avoidance, they set too strong of boundaries. They are scared to strong of boundaries. They are scared to strong of boundaries. They are scared to make compromises because they equate make compromises because they equate make compromises because they equate that to vulnerability. And so they end that to vulnerability. And so they end that to vulnerability. And so they end up keeping distance and saying, you up keeping distance and saying, you up keeping distance and saying, you know, they're the types that instead of know, they're the types that instead of know, they're the types that instead of saying, "Hey, I've had a long week. It's saying, "Hey, I've had a long week. It's saying, "Hey, I've had a long week. It's Friday. I'm tired." Instead of going Friday. I'm tired." Instead of going Friday. I'm tired." Instead of going out, can we just stay in and watch a out, can we just stay in and watch a out, can we just stay in and watch a movie? Instead of setting small movie? Instead of setting small movie? Instead of setting small boundaries and requesting those needs boundaries and requesting those needs boundaries and requesting those needs within that framework, they'll instead within that framework, they'll instead within that framework, they'll instead go, "Cancelling, not coming over. Sorry, go, "Cancelling, not coming over. Sorry, go, "Cancelling, not coming over. Sorry, not going to be there." And it's because not going to be there." And it's because not going to be there." And it's because they have these huge boundaries cuz they they have these huge boundaries cuz they they have these huge boundaries cuz they don't know how to co-regulate and don't know how to co-regulate and don't know how to co-regulate and communicate in that way. And so then we communicate in that way. And so then we communicate in that way. And so then we have fearful avoidance. And fearful have fearful avoidance. And fearful have fearful avoidance. And fearful women are very interesting with their women are very interesting with their women are very interesting with their boundaries. I I call it the the fearful boundaries. I I call it the the fearful boundaries. I I call it the the fearful avoidant boundary cycle where they are avoidant boundary cycle where they are avoidant boundary cycle where they are boundaryless at first cuz they start to boundaryless at first cuz they start to boundaryless at first cuz they start to people please usually then they get people please usually then they get people please usually then they get frustrated because they're very frustrated because they're very frustrated because they're very generous. They tend to overgive and kind generous. They tend to overgive and kind generous. They tend to overgive and kind of underreceive. So they they set, you of underreceive. So they they set, you of underreceive. So they they set, you know, no boundaries. They're super know, no boundaries. They're super know, no boundaries. They're super generous and then they're, you know, generous and then they're, you know, generous and then they're, you know, they eventually are like, "Oh, I feel they eventually are like, "Oh, I feel they eventually are like, "Oh, I feel taken advantage of." And then they get taken advantage of." And then they get taken advantage of." And then they get really triggered cuz they've got a lot really triggered cuz they've got a lot really triggered cuz they've got a lot of big core wounds. And then they get of big core wounds. And then they get of big core wounds. And then they get angry and they set boundaries from anger angry and they set boundaries from anger angry and they set boundaries from anger or frustration. And they say things or frustration. And they say things or frustration. And they say things harshly or critically. And sometimes harshly or critically. And sometimes harshly or critically. And sometimes they're a little bit, you know, too they're a little bit, you know, too they're a little bit, you know, too harsh or critical. and then they feel harsh or critical. and then they feel harsh or critical. and then they feel terribly guilty about it and they go terribly guilty about it and they go terribly guilty about it and they go back to having no boundaries. So they're back to having no boundaries. So they're back to having no boundaries. So they're like no boundaries, get frustrated, like no boundaries, get frustrated, like no boundaries, get frustrated, express anger, feel guilty, go back to express anger, feel guilty, go back to express anger, feel guilty, go back to no boundaries and they kind of just go no boundaries and they kind of just go no boundaries and they kind of just go around in a loop. Um, and so what we get around in a loop. Um, and so what we get around in a loop. Um, and so what we get people to do is first, and it actually people to do is first, and it actually people to do is first, and it actually has to be done in order. And and I'll has to be done in order. And and I'll has to be done in order. And and I'll speak from personal examples, but this speak from personal examples, but this speak from personal examples, but this is what I would see replicated out with is what I would see replicated out with is what I would see replicated out with like thousands of people. When I was like thousands of people. When I was like thousands of people. When I was first doing boundary work, I knew I had first doing boundary work, I knew I had first doing boundary work, I knew I had to do boundary work. I was like, I to do boundary work. I was like, I to do boundary work. I was like, I really struggle with boundaries. So, I really struggle with boundaries. So, I really struggle with boundaries. So, I read all these boundary books and I I read all these boundary books and I I read all these boundary books and I I learned about boundaries and I read, you learned about boundaries and I read, you learned about boundaries and I read, you know, publications on boundaries and all know, publications on boundaries and all know, publications on boundaries and all these things. And yet, I would get into these things. And yet, I would get into these things. And yet, I would get into situations and I would be sitting in a situations and I would be sitting in a situations and I would be sitting in a situation being like, I know this is situation being like, I know this is situation being like, I know this is where I should set the boundary, but I where I should set the boundary, but I where I should set the boundary, but I would clam up and I wouldn't do it would clam up and I wouldn't do it would clam up and I wouldn't do it >> because I didn't realize that I still >> because I didn't realize that I still >> because I didn't realize that I still had core wounds around my boundaries. had core wounds around my boundaries. had core wounds around my boundaries. So, consciously, I'm like, set a So, consciously, I'm like, set a So, consciously, I'm like, set a boundary. And too many people boundary. And too many people boundary. And too many people intellectualize boundaries as this intellectualize boundaries as this intellectualize boundaries as this concept, but you're not actually going concept, but you're not actually going concept, but you're not actually going to do it in real time until you first re to do it in real time until you first re to do it in real time until you first re because if your conscious mind says set because if your conscious mind says set because if your conscious mind says set the boundary, your subconscious mind the boundary, your subconscious mind the boundary, your subconscious mind says, "No, I'm going to be unsafe." And says, "No, I'm going to be unsafe." And says, "No, I'm going to be unsafe." And as a child, I had some kind of as a child, I had some kind of as a child, I had some kind of heavy-handed punishments at times for heavy-handed punishments at times for heavy-handed punishments at times for setting a boundary or saying no. So my setting a boundary or saying no. So my setting a boundary or saying no. So my my subconscious mind said boundaries my subconscious mind said boundaries my subconscious mind said boundaries equals unsafety rather than safety. And equals unsafety rather than safety. And equals unsafety rather than safety. And a healthy dynamic, that's what your your a healthy dynamic, that's what your your a healthy dynamic, that's what your your brain would think. And so then I would brain would think. And so then I would brain would think. And so then I would in real time clam up, not say it, and in real time clam up, not say it, and in real time clam up, not say it, and then be like walk away going, "Why then be like walk away going, "Why then be like walk away going, "Why didn't I set the boundary?" So what we didn't I set the boundary?" So what we didn't I set the boundary?" So what we get people to do is step one know your get people to do is step one know your get people to do is step one know your boundaries. We get people to audit their boundaries. We get people to audit their boundaries. We get people to audit their boundaries in the seven areas of life. boundaries in the seven areas of life. boundaries in the seven areas of life. Go through career, where are you lacking Go through career, where are you lacking Go through career, where are you lacking boundaries, financial area of life, etc. boundaries, financial area of life, etc. boundaries, financial area of life, etc. through the seven areas. Then we get through the seven areas. Then we get through the seven areas. Then we get people to say, okay, if I set a people to say, okay, if I set a people to say, okay, if I set a boundary, what am I afraid will happen boundary, what am I afraid will happen boundary, what am I afraid will happen or what do I make it mean? It's a good or what do I make it mean? It's a good or what do I make it mean? It's a good way to surface some of your subconscious way to surface some of your subconscious way to surface some of your subconscious stuff that may be there. Oh, if I set a stuff that may be there. Oh, if I set a stuff that may be there. Oh, if I set a boundary, then I'm going to be boundary, then I'm going to be boundary, then I'm going to be abandoned. If I set a boundary, people abandoned. If I set a boundary, people abandoned. If I set a boundary, people are going to reject me or think that I'm are going to reject me or think that I'm are going to reject me or think that I'm a burden. You know, you can really see a burden. You know, you can really see a burden. You know, you can really see what comes up. And then we get people to what comes up. And then we get people to what comes up. And then we get people to rewire using some rewiring techniques rewire using some rewiring techniques rewire using some rewiring techniques that fear of setting boundaries and then that fear of setting boundaries and then that fear of setting boundaries and then practice doing exposure work which means practice doing exposure work which means practice doing exposure work which means you don't go set your your first you don't go set your your first you don't go set your your first boundary with your boss who you think boundary with your boss who you think boundary with your boss who you think has narcissistic personality disorder has narcissistic personality disorder has narcissistic personality disorder cuz your brain's not going to take that cuz your brain's not going to take that cuz your brain's not going to take that very well. We set boundaries with, you very well. We set boundaries with, you very well. We set boundaries with, you know, small boundaries with trusted know, small boundaries with trusted know, small boundaries with trusted people like ask your coworker you love, people like ask your coworker you love, people like ask your coworker you love, hey, can you bring back my stapler when hey, can you bring back my stapler when hey, can you bring back my stapler when you borrow it? Like the small things you borrow it? Like the small things you borrow it? Like the small things first. So your brain, we try to set one first. So your brain, we try to set one first. So your brain, we try to set one boundary a day. So your brain gets the boundary a day. So your brain gets the boundary a day. So your brain gets the repetition and emotion. I've seen that repetition and emotion. I've seen that repetition and emotion. I've seen that incrementalism work and you've rewired incrementalism work and you've rewired incrementalism work and you've rewired the core fear that was stopping you from the core fear that was stopping you from the core fear that was stopping you from setting boundaries in real time. And setting boundaries in real time. And setting boundaries in real time. And what I found in my own life and what what I found in my own life and what what I found in my own life and what I've seen with thousands of people is I've seen with thousands of people is I've seen with thousands of people is that unless you're actually doing that unless you're actually doing that unless you're actually doing boundary work at the subconscious level, boundary work at the subconscious level, boundary work at the subconscious level, you can know it, you can intellectualize you can know it, you can intellectualize you can know it, you can intellectualize it, but it's not actually going to it, but it's not actually going to it, but it's not actually going to change things. That makes so much sense. change things. That makes so much sense. change things. That makes so much sense. Is in your program because you have so Is in your program because you have so Is in your program because you have so many daily tasks. many daily tasks. many daily tasks. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> How how are people interacting with you, >> How how are people interacting with you, >> How how are people interacting with you, your team or or with these tasks on a your team or or with these tasks on a your team or or with these tasks on a daily basis? How does it work? daily basis? How does it work? daily basis? How does it work? >> Yeah. So, what we do is we get people >> Yeah. So, what we do is we get people >> Yeah. So, what we do is we get people they go through 90 days. They do like they go through 90 days. They do like they go through 90 days. They do like one pillar at a time and we get them to one pillar at a time and we get them to one pillar at a time and we get them to start with a reprogramming pillar. Um we start with a reprogramming pillar. Um we start with a reprogramming pillar. Um we actually have, you know, people come in, actually have, you know, people come in, actually have, you know, people come in, they take their actual program. It's a they take their actual program. It's a they take their actual program. It's a course for each pillar. So, they can go course for each pillar. So, they can go course for each pillar. So, they can go through take the course and then we have through take the course and then we have through take the course and then we have two events per day. So I'm in there 3 two events per day. So I'm in there 3 two events per day. So I'm in there 3 days a week with our students. We have days a week with our students. We have days a week with our students. We have colleagues in there so that they colleagues in there so that they colleagues in there so that they actually have two events every day just actually have two events every day just actually have two events every day just at different time zones, things like at different time zones, things like at different time zones, things like that. So people can get in there. We that. So people can get in there. We that. So people can get in there. We have um events that help people actually have um events that help people actually have um events that help people actually practice the tools and model out practice the tools and model out practice the tools and model out especially for communication or boundary especially for communication or boundary especially for communication or boundary setting. Like they actually get to setting. Like they actually get to setting. Like they actually get to practice it, they get feedback, it's practice it, they get feedback, it's practice it, they get feedback, it's relayed back to them and then we teach relayed back to them and then we teach relayed back to them and then we teach classes about the tools in more depth. classes about the tools in more depth. classes about the tools in more depth. You ask questions in the chat. Then we You ask questions in the chat. Then we You ask questions in the chat. Then we have live questions at the end so people have live questions at the end so people have live questions at the end so people can really get in there and like form can really get in there and like form can really get in there and like form those skills across time as they go those skills across time as they go those skills across time as they go through each of those pillars. Yeah, through each of those pillars. Yeah, through each of those pillars. Yeah, it's a real commitment. People are it's a real commitment. People are it's a real commitment. People are People are really doing the work. People are really doing the work. People are really doing the work. >> Absolutely. And we set it up so that >> Absolutely. And we set it up so that >> Absolutely. And we set it up so that it's really only like 2 to 3 minutes a it's really only like 2 to 3 minutes a it's really only like 2 to 3 minutes a day that people need. They don't have to day that people need. They don't have to day that people need. They don't have to come into those events to get the come into those events to get the come into those events to get the results, but they have the support there results, but they have the support there results, but they have the support there if they need it. And what's really if they need it. And what's really if they need it. And what's really beautiful, too, is that people end up beautiful, too, is that people end up beautiful, too, is that people end up making all these friends and they're making all these friends and they're making all these friends and they're like, people make friends from all sort like, people make friends from all sort like, people make friends from all sort of parts of the world, and they can stay of parts of the world, and they can stay of parts of the world, and they can stay after the events and chat with each after the events and chat with each after the events and chat with each other in the breakout rooms, but we set other in the breakout rooms, but we set other in the breakout rooms, but we set it up so that we try to keep it as it up so that we try to keep it as it up so that we try to keep it as simple as possible. Here's your course. simple as possible. Here's your course. simple as possible. Here's your course. The course is only like 2 hours long or The course is only like 2 hours long or The course is only like 2 hours long or so. They can go, they can take the so. They can go, they can take the so. They can go, they can take the course, get the follow-up support, but course, get the follow-up support, but course, get the follow-up support, but the course will have, hey, here's your the course will have, hey, here's your the course will have, hey, here's your daily exercise for the next 21 days, daily exercise for the next 21 days, daily exercise for the next 21 days, then you finish that one. Okay, here's then you finish that one. Okay, here's then you finish that one. Okay, here's your next daily pillar for 21 days. And your next daily pillar for 21 days. And your next daily pillar for 21 days. And it takes, you know, they're very small it takes, you know, they're very small it takes, you know, they're very small exercises. exercises. exercises. >> That's brilliant. It's so well >> That's brilliant. It's so well >> That's brilliant. It's so well structured. It structured. It structured. It >> just just hearing about it makes it feel >> just just hearing about it makes it feel >> just just hearing about it makes it feel so It feels like such a seamless process so It feels like such a seamless process so It feels like such a seamless process because you're getting to exclusively because you're getting to exclusively because you're getting to exclusively focus on one thing at a time as opposed focus on one thing at a time as opposed focus on one thing at a time as opposed to like a million habits that we're all to like a million habits that we're all to like a million habits that we're all trying to develop. trying to develop. trying to develop. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Ta, we wanted to ask you about real life >> Ta, we wanted to ask you about real life >> Ta, we wanted to ask you about real life scenarios. Okay. scenarios. Okay. scenarios. Okay. >> Because we feel that, you know, when you >> Because we feel that, you know, when you >> Because we feel that, you know, when you look at all of these attachment styles, look at all of these attachment styles, look at all of these attachment styles, really the way we experience them is in really the way we experience them is in really the way we experience them is in a relationship or when we start dating. a relationship or when we start dating. a relationship or when we start dating. So, here are some real life scenarios. So, here are some real life scenarios. So, here are some real life scenarios. One partner is anxious and the other is One partner is anxious and the other is One partner is anxious and the other is avoidant. The anxious partner clings, avoidant. The anxious partner clings, avoidant. The anxious partner clings, the avoidant pulls away. How do they the avoidant pulls away. How do they the avoidant pulls away. How do they break that cycle instead of repeating break that cycle instead of repeating break that cycle instead of repeating it? it? it? >> Okay, so really good question. So, first >> Okay, so really good question. So, first >> Okay, so really good question. So, first thing is we do do that work. like the thing is we do do that work. like the thing is we do do that work. like the actual way is not going to be to will actual way is not going to be to will actual way is not going to be to will yourself through it which unfortunately yourself through it which unfortunately yourself through it which unfortunately sadly so many people are like oh we're sadly so many people are like oh we're sadly so many people are like oh we're just going to try to you know self just going to try to you know self just going to try to you know self silence and not say what we need and silence and not say what we need and silence and not say what we need and then it comes out in a negative way. then it comes out in a negative way. then it comes out in a negative way. First thing is you do the rewiring work. First thing is you do the rewiring work. First thing is you do the rewiring work. Then we actually start to Then we actually start to Then we actually start to >> What if they don't want to do that work >> What if they don't want to do that work >> What if they don't want to do that work though? though? though? >> Okay, great question. So here's what we >> Okay, great question. So here's what we >> Okay, great question. So here's what we do in that case. So this is actually I do in that case. So this is actually I do in that case. So this is actually I would see this sometimes when working would see this sometimes when working would see this sometimes when working with couples um where somebody's like with couples um where somebody's like with couples um where somebody's like I'm not going to be doing the self work, I'm not going to be doing the self work, I'm not going to be doing the self work, we're not really going to be moving from we're not really going to be moving from we're not really going to be moving from that perspective. Well, people tend to that perspective. Well, people tend to that perspective. Well, people tend to think that because people have different think that because people have different think that because people have different needs that different needs mean mutually needs that different needs mean mutually needs that different needs mean mutually exclusive needs. Okay, which is not the exclusive needs. Okay, which is not the exclusive needs. Okay, which is not the case. So people think like typical case. So people think like typical case. So people think like typical scenario anxious attachment style in scenario anxious attachment style in scenario anxious attachment style in exactly that scenario you said what do exactly that scenario you said what do exactly that scenario you said what do they want? They what's their need? more they want? They what's their need? more they want? They what's their need? more time together. What's a dismissive time together. What's a dismissive time together. What's a dismissive avoidance needed? More space, more avoidance needed? More space, more avoidance needed? More space, more freedom, more autonomy. So, what we do freedom, more autonomy. So, what we do freedom, more autonomy. So, what we do in that case is just because somebody in that case is just because somebody in that case is just because somebody wants more time when somebody wants more wants more time when somebody wants more wants more time when somebody wants more space doesn't mean that that can't work. space doesn't mean that that can't work. space doesn't mean that that can't work. What we get people to do is talk it out What we get people to do is talk it out What we get people to do is talk it out from that feeling need framework enough from that feeling need framework enough from that feeling need framework enough where you have pockets of time to meet where you have pockets of time to meet where you have pockets of time to meet both each other's needs. So, you'll both each other's needs. So, you'll both each other's needs. So, you'll probably see this, but whenever we we probably see this, but whenever we we probably see this, but whenever we we have a a trigger, we always think of the have a a trigger, we always think of the have a a trigger, we always think of the worst case scenario, right? We jump to worst case scenario, right? We jump to worst case scenario, right? We jump to the worst case conclusion. So, the worst case conclusion. So, the worst case conclusion. So, dismissive avoidance, when somebody's dismissive avoidance, when somebody's dismissive avoidance, when somebody's like, "Well, I want more time." They're like, "Well, I want more time." They're like, "Well, I want more time." They're like, "You're going to take over my like, "You're going to take over my like, "You're going to take over my life." Like they think you, "Oh, you life." Like they think you, "Oh, you life." Like they think you, "Oh, you want like seven hours every evening want like seven hours every evening want like seven hours every evening together?" Like, together?" Like, together?" Like, >> or or they're thinking, "Well, I just >> or or they're thinking, "Well, I just >> or or they're thinking, "Well, I just gave you time this weekend. Like, we gave you time this weekend. Like, we gave you time this weekend. Like, we were just hanging out. Like, that how were just hanging out. Like, that how were just hanging out. Like, that how much more can I give you?" much more can I give you?" much more can I give you?" >> Exactly. And then when dismissive say, >> Exactly. And then when dismissive say, >> Exactly. And then when dismissive say, "I need more space or time to myself." "I need more space or time to myself." "I need more space or time to myself." Anxious attachment are like, "You're Anxious attachment are like, "You're Anxious attachment are like, "You're leaving me. You're abandoning me." leaving me. You're abandoning me." leaving me. You're abandoning me." >> Yeah. And it's because of me. It's like, >> Yeah. And it's because of me. It's like, >> Yeah. And it's because of me. It's like, you want to get away from me. you want to get away from me. you want to get away from me. >> 100%. And instead, it's because they >> 100%. And instead, it's because they >> 100%. And instead, it's because they they struggle to co-regulate. So, what they struggle to co-regulate. So, what they struggle to co-regulate. So, what we get people to do is the feeling need we get people to do is the feeling need we get people to do is the feeling need framework. They each say what they feel. framework. They each say what they feel. framework. They each say what they feel. Hey, this will comes up for me. Then Hey, this will comes up for me. Then Hey, this will comes up for me. Then it's a beautiful opportunity to say, I it's a beautiful opportunity to say, I it's a beautiful opportunity to say, I need space because that's how I need space because that's how I need space because that's how I recharge. I need time because that's recharge. I need time because that's recharge. I need time because that's when I feel connected. So now they when I feel connected. So now they when I feel connected. So now they actually understand what's going on. And actually understand what's going on. And actually understand what's going on. And then okay, what do we need? Paint the then okay, what do we need? Paint the then okay, what do we need? Paint the picture. And when people paint the picture. And when people paint the picture. And when people paint the picture, they realize it's actually very picture, they realize it's actually very picture, they realize it's actually very reasonable from both ends. Usually an reasonable from both ends. Usually an reasonable from both ends. Usually an anxious attachment style will say, okay, anxious attachment style will say, okay, anxious attachment style will say, okay, you know, what can I actually do as a you know, what can I actually do as a you know, what can I actually do as a baseline in terms of how much time I baseline in terms of how much time I baseline in terms of how much time I need together? I think two nights a week need together? I think two nights a week need together? I think two nights a week would be, you know, acceptable for me. would be, you know, acceptable for me. would be, you know, acceptable for me. And then maybe a 15-minute phone call a And then maybe a 15-minute phone call a And then maybe a 15-minute phone call a couple other nights a week. I could do couple other nights a week. I could do couple other nights a week. I could do that. And if I know that we're going to that. And if I know that we're going to that. And if I know that we're going to do that and commit to that, I can feel do that and commit to that, I can feel do that and commit to that, I can feel good about that. And then dismissive good about that. And then dismissive good about that. And then dismissive avoidance. They're not going, "Oh, you avoidance. They're not going, "Oh, you avoidance. They're not going, "Oh, you want to spend every night with me all want to spend every night with me all want to spend every night with me all day, every day, you know, you want to day, every day, you know, you want to day, every day, you know, you want to take up my whole life." They're like, take up my whole life." They're like, take up my whole life." They're like, "Oh, two evenings a week and then I can "Oh, two evenings a week and then I can "Oh, two evenings a week and then I can do my own thing on Sunday afternoon. I do my own thing on Sunday afternoon. I do my own thing on Sunday afternoon. I can do my own thing on Monday, Tuesday can do my own thing on Monday, Tuesday can do my own thing on Monday, Tuesday evenings, and I have, you know, all this evenings, and I have, you know, all this evenings, and I have, you know, all this other time to see friends, whatever it other time to see friends, whatever it other time to see friends, whatever it might be." Okay, that's actually might be." Okay, that's actually might be." Okay, that's actually feasible. So what I find is even if feasible. So what I find is even if feasible. So what I find is even if people don't want to do the work, if people don't want to do the work, if people don't want to do the work, if they can communicate very clearly and they can communicate very clearly and they can communicate very clearly and specifically use that ingredient of specifically use that ingredient of specifically use that ingredient of painting a picture for what that looks painting a picture for what that looks painting a picture for what that looks like, we resolve a lot of those like, we resolve a lot of those like, we resolve a lot of those projected fears that cause those projected fears that cause those projected fears that cause those miscommunications to begin with and now miscommunications to begin with and now miscommunications to begin with and now things can really work together. things can really work together. things can really work together. >> Do you think it's possible to be in a >> Do you think it's possible to be in a >> Do you think it's possible to be in a relationship with someone who's not relationship with someone who's not relationship with someone who's not willing to have these conversations? willing to have these conversations? willing to have these conversations? >> It's a great question. I'll be really >> It's a great question. I'll be really >> It's a great question. I'll be really honest. Um what I believe is that you honest. Um what I believe is that you honest. Um what I believe is that you know and I'll see this a lot. One person know and I'll see this a lot. One person know and I'll see this a lot. One person can lead the way. Okay. So so I see a can lead the way. Okay. So so I see a can lead the way. Okay. So so I see a lot of time one person starts doing the lot of time one person starts doing the lot of time one person starts doing the work they learn to communicate. They work they learn to communicate. They work they learn to communicate. They become really good at it and the other become really good at it and the other become really good at it and the other person like once they see their partner person like once they see their partner person like once they see their partner communicating so healthily and they're communicating so healthily and they're communicating so healthily and they're regulated and they're not so triggered regulated and they're not so triggered regulated and they're not so triggered from their wounds and they're so clear from their wounds and they're so clear from their wounds and they're so clear about their needs. The vast majority of about their needs. The vast majority of about their needs. The vast majority of time it gives the other person time it gives the other person time it gives the other person permission to do the same and they permission to do the same and they permission to do the same and they follow their lead. But I will say in in follow their lead. But I will say in in follow their lead. But I will say in in roughly 10% of cases somebody's in a roughly 10% of cases somebody's in a roughly 10% of cases somebody's in a position where they're like I'm not position where they're like I'm not position where they're like I'm not doing any of this stuff. I don't want to doing any of this stuff. I don't want to doing any of this stuff. I don't want to communicate. I don't want to have these communicate. I don't want to have these communicate. I don't want to have these conversations about your your needs. I'm conversations about your your needs. I'm conversations about your your needs. I'm I'm sorry. I'm I'm not going to do that I'm sorry. I'm I'm not going to do that I'm sorry. I'm I'm not going to do that at all. It's usually from their own at all. It's usually from their own at all. It's usually from their own woundedness that their unwillingness is woundedness that their unwillingness is woundedness that their unwillingness is there. But I say to people like, "Hey, there. But I say to people like, "Hey, there. But I say to people like, "Hey, if that's the case, I tell people set a if that's the case, I tell people set a if that's the case, I tell people set a deadline. Try your living heart out. Do deadline. Try your living heart out. Do deadline. Try your living heart out. Do everything you can in this deadline." So everything you can in this deadline." So everything you can in this deadline." So deadline might be 90 days. It might be 6 deadline might be 90 days. It might be 6 deadline might be 90 days. It might be 6 months. If you're in a longer term months. If you're in a longer term months. If you're in a longer term relationship or if you're in a marriage relationship or if you're in a marriage relationship or if you're in a marriage with children, it might be a year or a with children, it might be a year or a with children, it might be a year or a year and a half. do everything you can year and a half. do everything you can year and a half. do everything you can as that one person in that period of as that one person in that period of as that one person in that period of time to show up the best that you can, time to show up the best that you can, time to show up the best that you can, you know, without your wounds, know your you know, without your wounds, know your you know, without your wounds, know your needs, regulate your nervous system, needs, regulate your nervous system, needs, regulate your nervous system, communicate beautifully, set healthy communicate beautifully, set healthy communicate beautifully, set healthy boundaries. If it doesn't work and the boundaries. If it doesn't work and the boundaries. If it doesn't work and the person's literally unwilling at the end person's literally unwilling at the end person's literally unwilling at the end of that period of time, your only choice of that period of time, your only choice of that period of time, your only choice if you want to be in a healthy if you want to be in a healthy if you want to be in a healthy relationship is probably to walk away. relationship is probably to walk away. relationship is probably to walk away. And that's because you're going to if And that's because you're going to if And that's because you're going to if you're not happy in that situation, you you're not happy in that situation, you you're not happy in that situation, you cannot have one person doing the cannot have one person doing the cannot have one person doing the emotional labor for for both people. And emotional labor for for both people. And emotional labor for for both people. And then usually what happens is you're then usually what happens is you're then usually what happens is you're positioned for a win-win because you positioned for a win-win because you positioned for a win-win because you have healed so much and you're going to have healed so much and you're going to have healed so much and you're going to be in a place where you feel stable and be in a place where you feel stable and be in a place where you feel stable and emotionally well enough to walk away emotionally well enough to walk away emotionally well enough to walk away from something that may actually not be from something that may actually not be from something that may actually not be a fit for you and and so you're okay and a fit for you and and so you're okay and a fit for you and and so you're okay and you also know I can walk away guilt and you also know I can walk away guilt and you also know I can walk away guilt and regret free. I tried everything or your regret free. I tried everything or your regret free. I tried everything or your best case scenario is 90% of the time best case scenario is 90% of the time best case scenario is 90% of the time the other person jumps on board and the the other person jumps on board and the the other person jumps on board and the relationship evolves because you led the relationship evolves because you led the relationship evolves because you led the way. way. way. >> Yeah. How how does attachment theory >> Yeah. How how does attachment theory >> Yeah. How how does attachment theory explain love bombing? explain love bombing? explain love bombing? >> Great question. So lovebombing I think >> Great question. So lovebombing I think >> Great question. So lovebombing I think of as is existing along a continuum. of as is existing along a continuum. of as is existing along a continuum. Love bombing in extreme cases is usually Love bombing in extreme cases is usually Love bombing in extreme cases is usually because of narcissistic personality because of narcissistic personality because of narcissistic personality disorder. And that's somebody love disorder. And that's somebody love disorder. And that's somebody love bombing with the premeditated intention bombing with the premeditated intention bombing with the premeditated intention to win you over as a means of control. to win you over as a means of control. to win you over as a means of control. Um, but what actually happens if we look Um, but what actually happens if we look Um, but what actually happens if we look way further down the continuum, love way further down the continuum, love way further down the continuum, love bombing can be more from a a place bombing can be more from a a place bombing can be more from a a place usually we're going to see anxious or usually we're going to see anxious or usually we're going to see anxious or fearful avoidance do love bombing and fearful avoidance do love bombing and fearful avoidance do love bombing and it's because a much lesser degree and it's because a much lesser degree and it's because a much lesser degree and their relationship to it is not because their relationship to it is not because their relationship to it is not because let me win you over so that then you're let me win you over so that then you're let me win you over so that then you're addicted to me and I can control you. addicted to me and I can control you. addicted to me and I can control you. It's from a place of that they usually It's from a place of that they usually It's from a place of that they usually because of having so many core wounds because of having so many core wounds because of having so many core wounds and people pleasing behaviors as their and people pleasing behaviors as their and people pleasing behaviors as their adaptation to those core wounds. They adaptation to those core wounds. They adaptation to those core wounds. They have people on a pedestal and so you're have people on a pedestal and so you're have people on a pedestal and so you're going to love bomb somebody that you going to love bomb somebody that you going to love bomb somebody that you admire and you look up to and you want admire and you look up to and you want admire and you look up to and you want to win over and people please and so to win over and people please and so to win over and people please and so that's often what will happen is you get that's often what will happen is you get that's often what will happen is you get a lot more of those compliments and a lot more of those compliments and a lot more of those compliments and trying to win somebody over and charm trying to win somebody over and charm trying to win somebody over and charm them and all those things because of them and all those things because of them and all those things because of their own insecurity compared to how their own insecurity compared to how their own insecurity compared to how high they see other people that they're high they see other people that they're high they see other people that they're in relationships with. If someone comes in relationships with. If someone comes in relationships with. If someone comes on quite strongly to you, sometimes it on quite strongly to you, sometimes it on quite strongly to you, sometimes it can be quite infatuating because you're can be quite infatuating because you're can be quite infatuating because you're like, "Wow, I finally found someone like, "Wow, I finally found someone like, "Wow, I finally found someone >> who likes me, who loves me, who But I've >> who likes me, who loves me, who But I've >> who likes me, who loves me, who But I've noticed as people are getting wiser and noticed as people are getting wiser and noticed as people are getting wiser and I'm sure as they do the work." They're I'm sure as they do the work." They're I'm sure as they do the work." They're like, "Well, that's a bit strong. It's like, "Well, that's a bit strong. It's like, "Well, that's a bit strong. It's too early." Like that that feels too early." Like that that feels too early." Like that that feels unnatural for you to have such intense unnatural for you to have such intense unnatural for you to have such intense feelings. We just met two weeks ago. feelings. We just met two weeks ago. feelings. We just met two weeks ago. What would you do in that scenario where What would you do in that scenario where What would you do in that scenario where you kind of see positives in this person you kind of see positives in this person you kind of see positives in this person but their feelings are too strong and but their feelings are too strong and but their feelings are too strong and you don't want to get lovebombed and but you don't want to get lovebombed and but you don't want to get lovebombed and but you still want to continue seeing them. you still want to continue seeing them. you still want to continue seeing them. How would you navigate that? How would you navigate that? How would you navigate that? >> That's a beautiful question. So, a >> That's a beautiful question. So, a >> That's a beautiful question. So, a couple of things. Um the first answer is couple of things. Um the first answer is couple of things. Um the first answer is that in that early stage you can have that in that early stage you can have that in that early stage you can have that conversation. You can say to that conversation. You can say to that conversation. You can say to somebody, "Hey, I really like you. I somebody, "Hey, I really like you. I somebody, "Hey, I really like you. I really like spending time with you. I'm really like spending time with you. I'm really like spending time with you. I'm super interested in you and getting to super interested in you and getting to super interested in you and getting to know you and I feel like we're moving a know you and I feel like we're moving a know you and I feel like we're moving a little bit quickly. Here's the pace I little bit quickly. Here's the pace I little bit quickly. Here's the pace I like to go at. I want to manage your like to go at. I want to manage your like to go at. I want to manage your expectations. And that forces somebody expectations. And that forces somebody expectations. And that forces somebody to kind of check in with themselves and to kind of check in with themselves and to kind of check in with themselves and be able to do that work. I also tell be able to do that work. I also tell be able to do that work. I also tell people all the time, if you're if you're people all the time, if you're if you're people all the time, if you're if you're concerned a little bit, you think concerned a little bit, you think concerned a little bit, you think somebody's amazing, they're very somebody's amazing, they're very somebody's amazing, they're very charming, they're very charismatic, and charming, they're very charismatic, and charming, they're very charismatic, and you're concerned a little bit that you're concerned a little bit that you're concerned a little bit that they're lovebombing and their charisma they're lovebombing and their charisma they're lovebombing and their charisma could be a sign of a narcissist instead could be a sign of a narcissist instead could be a sign of a narcissist instead of just an insecure attachment cell cuz of just an insecure attachment cell cuz of just an insecure attachment cell cuz they are vastly different, then one of they are vastly different, then one of they are vastly different, then one of the best ways to just vet them is to set the best ways to just vet them is to set the best ways to just vet them is to set a boundary with them. Because a boundary with them. Because a boundary with them. Because narcissists do not like your boundary, narcissists do not like your boundary, narcissists do not like your boundary, whereas insecure attachment cells, whereas insecure attachment cells, whereas insecure attachment cells, they'll like really honor your boundary. they'll like really honor your boundary. they'll like really honor your boundary. They'll usually be like, "Oh, I'm so They'll usually be like, "Oh, I'm so They'll usually be like, "Oh, I'm so sorry." And they're they'll be sorry." And they're they'll be sorry." And they're they'll be accountable and apologize and accountable and apologize and accountable and apologize and acknowledge. And so that's a really good acknowledge. And so that's a really good acknowledge. And so that's a really good way to separate out the two. way to separate out the two. way to separate out the two. >> Interest. That's a Yeah, because I find >> Interest. That's a Yeah, because I find >> Interest. That's a Yeah, because I find that that's what I feel so many of my that that's what I feel so many of my that that's what I feel so many of my friends struggling with where it's like friends struggling with where it's like friends struggling with where it's like they do set a boundary, the person won't they do set a boundary, the person won't they do set a boundary, the person won't respect the boundary and but there's respect the boundary and but there's respect the boundary and but there's still so many good things about them. Is still so many good things about them. Is still so many good things about them. Is that dangerous to keep? Do you have to that dangerous to keep? Do you have to that dangerous to keep? Do you have to tread carefully? How do you tread carefully? How do you tread carefully? How do you >> It's a great question. And from that >> It's a great question. And from that >> It's a great question. And from that particular scenario, if somebody's not particular scenario, if somebody's not particular scenario, if somebody's not respecting your boundary early on, respecting your boundary early on, respecting your boundary early on, that's a big red flag. You know, if that's a big red flag. You know, if that's a big red flag. You know, if somebody doesn't know how to honor somebody doesn't know how to honor somebody doesn't know how to honor boundaries, then I would say in those boundaries, then I would say in those boundaries, then I would say in those types of cases, that's a vetting types of cases, that's a vetting types of cases, that's a vetting situation. Like vetting in a situation. Like vetting in a situation. Like vetting in a relationship when we first start dating relationship when we first start dating relationship when we first start dating should be for the first 3 4 months of a should be for the first 3 4 months of a should be for the first 3 4 months of a relationship. You should be asking the relationship. You should be asking the relationship. You should be asking the hard questions, having those early hard questions, having those early hard questions, having those early conversations, talking about your needs. conversations, talking about your needs. conversations, talking about your needs. I always say to people when you're when I always say to people when you're when I always say to people when you're when you're going into dating, know your you're going into dating, know your you're going into dating, know your needs and know your non-negotiables. And needs and know your non-negotiables. And needs and know your non-negotiables. And then go in and ask one or two really then go in and ask one or two really then go in and ask one or two really meaningful questions a day. You don't meaningful questions a day. You don't meaningful questions a day. You don't want the dating situation to be like a want the dating situation to be like a want the dating situation to be like a job interview. job interview. job interview. >> Here's my 17 needs. Are you going to >> Here's my 17 needs. Are you going to >> Here's my 17 needs. Are you going to meet them? You know, it needs to be meet them? You know, it needs to be meet them? You know, it needs to be something where like each date you say, something where like each date you say, something where like each date you say, you know, for example, I know for me, you know, for example, I know for me, you know, for example, I know for me, you know, I've been in a marriage and you know, I've been in a marriage and you know, I've been in a marriage and and with my husband for 11 years and and and with my husband for 11 years and and and with my husband for 11 years and and um but if I were dating again, I would um but if I were dating again, I would um but if I were dating again, I would one of my non-negotiables early on would one of my non-negotiables early on would one of my non-negotiables early on would be you need to be able to hash things be you need to be able to hash things be you need to be able to hash things out like we got to talk through things out like we got to talk through things out like we got to talk through things because it's so important to prevent any because it's so important to prevent any because it's so important to prevent any kind of resentment in relationship. So, kind of resentment in relationship. So, kind of resentment in relationship. So, I might, you know, have the first date, I might, you know, have the first date, I might, you know, have the first date, see if there's a connection, chemistry, see if there's a connection, chemistry, see if there's a connection, chemistry, have fun, and then by the second date, have fun, and then by the second date, have fun, and then by the second date, that might be a question I bring up that might be a question I bring up that might be a question I bring up pretty early. Hey, like how do you pretty early. Hey, like how do you pretty early. Hey, like how do you handle conflict? And then that way I can handle conflict? And then that way I can handle conflict? And then that way I can see if they say, "Oh, I would never, you see if they say, "Oh, I would never, you see if they say, "Oh, I would never, you know, I don't like to talk about things. know, I don't like to talk about things. know, I don't like to talk about things. I I don't go there. I don't like I I don't go there. I don't like I I don't go there. I don't like conflict. I don't believe in like having conflict. I don't believe in like having conflict. I don't believe in like having conflict." I would be like, "Whoa, red conflict." I would be like, "Whoa, red conflict." I would be like, "Whoa, red flag." And so then we vet. And and what flag." And so then we vet. And and what flag." And so then we vet. And and what we want to do is if if we see those we want to do is if if we see those we want to do is if if we see those things and we're not sure, red flags, if things and we're not sure, red flags, if things and we're not sure, red flags, if you're interested in somebody otherwise, you're interested in somebody otherwise, you're interested in somebody otherwise, people think red flags you should bolt. people think red flags you should bolt. people think red flags you should bolt. No, red flags you should go towards and No, red flags you should go towards and No, red flags you should go towards and figure out because sometimes somebody figure out because sometimes somebody figure out because sometimes somebody might accidentally disrespect a boundary might accidentally disrespect a boundary might accidentally disrespect a boundary that you said, "Hey, I want to move that you said, "Hey, I want to move that you said, "Hey, I want to move slower." But sometimes that red flag is slower." But sometimes that red flag is slower." But sometimes that red flag is well you weren't clear enough at what well you weren't clear enough at what well you weren't clear enough at what slower means to you. You didn't paint slower means to you. You didn't paint slower means to you. You didn't paint the picture. So that should be a the picture. So that should be a the picture. So that should be a conversation you move towards to really conversation you move towards to really conversation you move towards to really get to the bottom of like kind of a get to the bottom of like kind of a get to the bottom of like kind of a detective like hey I I mentioned last detective like hey I I mentioned last detective like hey I I mentioned last week wanting to move slower. I feel like week wanting to move slower. I feel like week wanting to move slower. I feel like we still moved at a really quick pace we still moved at a really quick pace we still moved at a really quick pace this week. For me moving slower looks this week. For me moving slower looks this week. For me moving slower looks like seeing each other a little bit like seeing each other a little bit like seeing each other a little bit less, you know, spending a little more less, you know, spending a little more less, you know, spending a little more time getting to know each other before time getting to know each other before time getting to know each other before traveling together, whatever it might traveling together, whatever it might traveling together, whatever it might be. And then we really get to the bottom be. And then we really get to the bottom be. And then we really get to the bottom of it. And that's part of the vetting of it. And that's part of the vetting of it. And that's part of the vetting that should be taking place in that that should be taking place in that that should be taking place in that early stage. And then if we see red early stage. And then if we see red early stage. And then if we see red flags and we see, oh no, no, that's just flags and we see, oh no, no, that's just flags and we see, oh no, no, that's just a red flag. They're going to keep going a red flag. They're going to keep going a red flag. They're going to keep going without those boundaries. Now we know without those boundaries. Now we know without those boundaries. Now we know the answer and now we're really clear. the answer and now we're really clear. the answer and now we're really clear. >> Yeah, absolutely. All right, another p >> Yeah, absolutely. All right, another p >> Yeah, absolutely. All right, another p another scenario here. I love these with another scenario here. I love these with another scenario here. I love these with you. These are great. Uh, a secure you. These are great. Uh, a secure you. These are great. Uh, a secure partner feels steady, but their anxious partner feels steady, but their anxious partner feels steady, but their anxious partner keeps searching for signs partner keeps searching for signs partner keeps searching for signs something is wrong. How can they help something is wrong. How can they help something is wrong. How can they help without becoming the emotional without becoming the emotional without becoming the emotional regulator? regulator? regulator? >> Yeah, really good question. So, this >> Yeah, really good question. So, this >> Yeah, really good question. So, this happens fairly frequently. Um, but happens fairly frequently. Um, but happens fairly frequently. Um, but what's very interesting about this is what's very interesting about this is what's very interesting about this is that I have yet to see it be any kind of that I have yet to see it be any kind of that I have yet to see it be any kind of frequent occurrence that somebody who's frequent occurrence that somebody who's frequent occurrence that somebody who's deeply anxious and deeply secure stay in deeply anxious and deeply secure stay in deeply anxious and deeply secure stay in a long-term relationship together a long-term relationship together a long-term relationship together >> because their subconscious comfort zones >> because their subconscious comfort zones >> because their subconscious comfort zones are going to reject each other. Securely are going to reject each other. Securely are going to reject each other. Securely attached people, if there's too much attached people, if there's too much attached people, if there's too much emotional burden over time and that emotional burden over time and that emotional burden over time and that person's not self-regulating at all or person's not self-regulating at all or person's not self-regulating at all or the needle's not moving, they usually do the needle's not moving, they usually do the needle's not moving, they usually do eventually because they're really good eventually because they're really good eventually because they're really good at being mindful of their own at being mindful of their own at being mindful of their own boundaries. they will pull away from boundaries. they will pull away from boundaries. they will pull away from that person or move in a different that person or move in a different that person or move in a different direction. Attachment cells are always a direction. Attachment cells are always a direction. Attachment cells are always a continuum. If somebody's a little bit continuum. If somebody's a little bit continuum. If somebody's a little bit anxious, we'll see some movement there, anxious, we'll see some movement there, anxious, we'll see some movement there, right? But if somebody sometimes you right? But if somebody sometimes you right? But if somebody sometimes you hear things like, oh, just date a secure hear things like, oh, just date a secure hear things like, oh, just date a secure person, it doesn't usually work out that person, it doesn't usually work out that person, it doesn't usually work out that way. Just like, you know, people who are way. Just like, you know, people who are way. Just like, you know, people who are deeply insecure often are like, where's deeply insecure often are like, where's deeply insecure often are like, where's the spice? Where's the excitement is the spice? Where's the excitement is the spice? Where's the excitement is that this is the stability seems boring that this is the stability seems boring that this is the stability seems boring or they they can reject the secure or they they can reject the secure or they they can reject the secure person as well. So, you know, the the person as well. So, you know, the the person as well. So, you know, the the that really brings back to the work of that really brings back to the work of that really brings back to the work of like you got to do the work in in like you got to do the work in in like you got to do the work in in healing yourself first if you really healing yourself first if you really healing yourself first if you really want that to happen. But if that were to want that to happen. But if that were to want that to happen. But if that were to be the case where you have somebody be the case where you have somebody be the case where you have somebody who's a little less anxious and then who's a little less anxious and then who's a little less anxious and then somebody who's really secure, then somebody who's really secure, then somebody who's really secure, then you're going to have the secure person you're going to have the secure person you're going to have the secure person say, "Hey, I need you to be able to make say, "Hey, I need you to be able to make say, "Hey, I need you to be able to make sure that you're self soothing sure that you're self soothing sure that you're self soothing sometimes." Or, "I need you." And in sometimes." Or, "I need you." And in sometimes." Or, "I need you." And in maybe less clinical terms, they might maybe less clinical terms, they might maybe less clinical terms, they might say something like, "Hey, you know, I'm say something like, "Hey, you know, I'm say something like, "Hey, you know, I'm going to be here for you and I'm going going to be here for you and I'm going going to be here for you and I'm going to do my best to be here for you. And to do my best to be here for you. And to do my best to be here for you. And there's going to be some times where I'm there's going to be some times where I'm there's going to be some times where I'm stuck late at work. I'm going through my stuck late at work. I'm going through my stuck late at work. I'm going through my own human things and I need you to see own human things and I need you to see own human things and I need you to see me, too. And I need you to practice me, too. And I need you to practice me, too. And I need you to practice being okay and on your own." And and so being okay and on your own." And and so being okay and on your own." And and so they'll set those boundaries. they'll they'll set those boundaries. they'll they'll set those boundaries. they'll communicate their needs and in doing communicate their needs and in doing communicate their needs and in doing that it actually provides this beautiful that it actually provides this beautiful that it actually provides this beautiful opportunity for somebody to be like oh opportunity for somebody to be like oh opportunity for somebody to be like oh maybe I should practice that maybe I maybe I should practice that maybe I maybe I should practice that maybe I should sort of train myself to do that should sort of train myself to do that should sort of train myself to do that and that's often where we can see those and that's often where we can see those and that's often where we can see those good outcomes. good outcomes. good outcomes. >> Yeah. I know it's it's interesting you >> Yeah. I know it's it's interesting you >> Yeah. I know it's it's interesting you say that because I couldn't agree more say that because I couldn't agree more say that because I couldn't agree more that one person is usually rises to be that one person is usually rises to be that one person is usually rises to be the fixer in the beginning because they the fixer in the beginning because they the fixer in the beginning because they feel valuable through it as well and feel valuable through it as well and feel valuable through it as well and then afterwards they start to feel less then afterwards they start to feel less then afterwards they start to feel less and less valuable because their fixing and less valuable because their fixing and less valuable because their fixing doesn't work and they feel like all of doesn't work and they feel like all of doesn't work and they feel like all of their efforts are in vain because their efforts are in vain because their efforts are in vain because naturally that person still needs to naturally that person still needs to naturally that person still needs to learn self-regulation and you end up learn self-regulation and you end up learn self-regulation and you end up pushing them right pushing them right pushing them right >> 100% and okay so there's so there is >> 100% and okay so there's so there is >> 100% and okay so there's so there is this um thing we we created that we that this um thing we we created that we that this um thing we we created that we that talk about sometimes and it's this the talk about sometimes and it's this the talk about sometimes and it's this the six stages of relationship. It's based six stages of relationship. It's based six stages of relationship. It's based off of off of some of Dr. Susan off of off of some of Dr. Susan off of off of some of Dr. Susan Johnson's work and there's the dating Johnson's work and there's the dating Johnson's work and there's the dating stage which is usually the first like stage which is usually the first like stage which is usually the first like you know 0 to 6 months you're dating or you know 0 to 6 months you're dating or you know 0 to 6 months you're dating or vetting then there's the honeymoon stage vetting then there's the honeymoon stage vetting then there's the honeymoon stage which usually lasts for another year to which usually lasts for another year to which usually lasts for another year to year and a half rose color glasses a year and a half rose color glasses a year and a half rose color glasses a long time. long time. long time. >> Yeah. And then we and then we enter into >> Yeah. And then we and then we enter into >> Yeah. And then we and then we enter into the power struggle stage and to your the power struggle stage and to your the power struggle stage and to your exact point and I kind of laugh at this exact point and I kind of laugh at this exact point and I kind of laugh at this with endearment. It's not fun when with endearment. It's not fun when with endearment. It's not fun when you're going through it. Then people you're going through it. Then people you're going through it. Then people after the power struggle there's the the after the power struggle there's the the after the power struggle there's the the um rhythm stage. You get into your um rhythm stage. You get into your um rhythm stage. You get into your rhythm, then you get into the commitment rhythm, then you get into the commitment rhythm, then you get into the commitment stage longterm and then the bliss stage. stage longterm and then the bliss stage. stage longterm and then the bliss stage. Like things are really good long term, Like things are really good long term, Like things are really good long term, highly likely to break up in that stage. highly likely to break up in that stage. highly likely to break up in that stage. But what's so interesting is that in the But what's so interesting is that in the But what's so interesting is that in the dating stage of relationships, usually dating stage of relationships, usually dating stage of relationships, usually we are very attracted to people who we are very attracted to people who we are very attracted to people who express our repressed traits. So the express our repressed traits. So the express our repressed traits. So the thing that will invest in longest term thing that will invest in longest term thing that will invest in longest term are people who mirror back to us how we are people who mirror back to us how we are people who mirror back to us how we treat ourselves. But one of the other treat ourselves. But one of the other treat ourselves. But one of the other things that does drive attraction early things that does drive attraction early things that does drive attraction early on psychologically um is somebody who on psychologically um is somebody who on psychologically um is somebody who expresses your repressed traits. Okay? expresses your repressed traits. Okay? expresses your repressed traits. Okay? So it's opposites attract. So, let's say So it's opposites attract. So, let's say So it's opposites attract. So, let's say for example that um you're somebody who for example that um you're somebody who for example that um you're somebody who struggles with boundaries. If you meet struggles with boundaries. If you meet struggles with boundaries. If you meet somebody really assertive, you're going somebody really assertive, you're going somebody really assertive, you're going to be like, "Wow." Like, "Ooh, let me to be like, "Wow." Like, "Ooh, let me to be like, "Wow." Like, "Ooh, let me get close to them." Or if you're get close to them." Or if you're get close to them." Or if you're >> That's not a bad thing. >> That's not a bad thing. >> That's not a bad thing. >> Not a bad thing. Or if you're somebody >> Not a bad thing. Or if you're somebody >> Not a bad thing. Or if you're somebody who's very um type A, organized, and who's very um type A, organized, and who's very um type A, organized, and tense, when somebody's really easygoing, tense, when somebody's really easygoing, tense, when somebody's really easygoing, you're going to be like, "Oh, wow. Like, you're going to be like, "Oh, wow. Like, you're going to be like, "Oh, wow. Like, look at them." And and so we're very look at them." And and so we're very look at them." And and so we're very drawn because the mind likes to attach. drawn because the mind likes to attach. drawn because the mind likes to attach. And when we attach to something, we have And when we attach to something, we have And when we attach to something, we have an alostatic or homeostatic impulse at an alostatic or homeostatic impulse at an alostatic or homeostatic impulse at the subconscious level. So, when we the subconscious level. So, when we the subconscious level. So, when we attach, we feel more whole through that attach, we feel more whole through that attach, we feel more whole through that person. But what's so crazy is over time person. But what's so crazy is over time person. But what's so crazy is over time we are still going to invest in the most we are still going to invest in the most we are still going to invest in the most people who mirror our subconscious people who mirror our subconscious people who mirror our subconscious comfort zone. So in the early stages comfort zone. So in the early stages comfort zone. So in the early stages we're often attracted and then in the we're often attracted and then in the we're often attracted and then in the power struggle stage it's the very thing power struggle stage it's the very thing power struggle stage it's the very thing that has one of the greatest likelihoods that has one of the greatest likelihoods that has one of the greatest likelihoods of driving the relationship apart and it of driving the relationship apart and it of driving the relationship apart and it looks like this. They were so assertive. looks like this. They were so assertive. looks like this. They were so assertive. I love that early on. And now in the I love that early on. And now in the I love that early on. And now in the power struggle stage you're like they power struggle stage you're like they power struggle stage you're like they never compromise never compromise never compromise or or early on you're like oh my god I or or early on you're like oh my god I or or early on you're like oh my god I love that they go with the flow. They're love that they go with the flow. They're love that they go with the flow. They're so flexible and he's going and then so flexible and he's going and then so flexible and he's going and then you're like hello like we have plans get you're like hello like we have plans get you're like hello like we have plans get here on time. and you're really stressed here on time. and you're really stressed here on time. and you're really stressed and it happens like clockwork in every and it happens like clockwork in every and it happens like clockwork in every relationship and the what I believe to relationship and the what I believe to relationship and the what I believe to be both a psychological and even be both a psychological and even be both a psychological and even spiritual lesson is to integrate those spiritual lesson is to integrate those spiritual lesson is to integrate those traits collectively and so traits collectively and so traits collectively and so >> explain that to me. >> explain that to me. >> explain that to me. >> Yeah. So, for example, let's say let's >> Yeah. So, for example, let's say let's >> Yeah. So, for example, let's say let's pretend it's me and my husband and pretend it's me and my husband and pretend it's me and my husband and actually we were kind of like this. I actually we were kind of like this. I actually we were kind of like this. I met my husband. We still had a little met my husband. We still had a little met my husband. We still had a little boundary work to do and he was so good boundary work to do and he was so good boundary work to do and he was so good at setting boundaries. Just like so at setting boundaries. Just like so at setting boundaries. Just like so direct, so straight up, so to the point. direct, so straight up, so to the point. direct, so straight up, so to the point. And I remember really admiring it. And And I remember really admiring it. And And I remember really admiring it. And then sure enough, I knew you we got in then sure enough, I knew you we got in then sure enough, I knew you we got in the power struggle stage and it started the power struggle stage and it started the power struggle stage and it started started to I was like, "Hello." Like, started to I was like, "Hello." Like, started to I was like, "Hello." Like, and so I went to him and I said, "Hey." and so I went to him and I said, "Hey." and so I went to him and I said, "Hey." And I knew this already. I was equipped. And I knew this already. I was equipped. And I knew this already. I was equipped. Thank goodness. And I knew that like I Thank goodness. And I knew that like I Thank goodness. And I knew that like I was going to start feeling frustrated was going to start feeling frustrated was going to start feeling frustrated unless I took on some of the trait of unless I took on some of the trait of unless I took on some of the trait of assertiveness better. And if he took on assertiveness better. And if he took on assertiveness better. And if he took on some of my flexibility a little bit some of my flexibility a little bit some of my flexibility a little bit more. more. more. >> So I went to him. I had the >> So I went to him. I had the >> So I went to him. I had the conversation. said, "Hey, I need you to conversation. said, "Hey, I need you to conversation. said, "Hey, I need you to make compromise with me sometimes, and make compromise with me sometimes, and make compromise with me sometimes, and this is really important to me, and it's this is really important to me, and it's this is really important to me, and it's going to be important for you to be more going to be important for you to be more going to be important for you to be more flexible and more mindful of me at times flexible and more mindful of me at times flexible and more mindful of me at times as well." And I gave some examples and as well." And I gave some examples and as well." And I gave some examples and sort of painted a picture. And what was sort of painted a picture. And what was sort of painted a picture. And what was really beautiful about that is I knew I really beautiful about that is I knew I really beautiful about that is I knew I had to communicate my needs more had to communicate my needs more had to communicate my needs more consistently and say my boundaries and consistently and say my boundaries and consistently and say my boundaries and do it better in real time. And I did. It do it better in real time. And I did. It do it better in real time. And I did. It was profoundly healing for me and helped was profoundly healing for me and helped was profoundly healing for me and helped me in so many relationships going me in so many relationships going me in so many relationships going forward, especially in things like work. forward, especially in things like work. forward, especially in things like work. And for him, he became so much more And for him, he became so much more And for him, he became so much more flexible. And I saw it really strengthen flexible. And I saw it really strengthen flexible. And I saw it really strengthen his relationships with his friends, his his relationships with his friends, his his relationships with his friends, his family members. Like it was really family members. Like it was really family members. Like it was really beautiful to see him evolve in that way. beautiful to see him evolve in that way. beautiful to see him evolve in that way. And that's everybody. That's if you're And that's everybody. That's if you're And that's everybody. That's if you're the the type A person, you got to learn the the type A person, you got to learn the the type A person, you got to learn that easygoingness sometimes and that easygoingness sometimes and that easygoingness sometimes and surrender. If you're the easygoing surrender. If you're the easygoing surrender. If you're the easygoing person, having some discipline is really person, having some discipline is really person, having some discipline is really valuable. So I really believe that valuable. So I really believe that valuable. So I really believe that relationships are not just here for relationships are not just here for relationships are not just here for love. Although that's a beautiful thing, love. Although that's a beautiful thing, love. Although that's a beautiful thing, they're also here for growth. And a lot they're also here for growth. And a lot they're also here for growth. And a lot of it's that we're attracted to people of it's that we're attracted to people of it's that we're attracted to people that way because that's our subconscious that way because that's our subconscious that way because that's our subconscious mind calling us to take on some of those mind calling us to take on some of those mind calling us to take on some of those things internally. And that's how we things internally. And that's how we things internally. And that's how we become more whole together in that power become more whole together in that power become more whole together in that power struggle stage. And now instead of struggle stage. And now instead of struggle stage. And now instead of having these two different people that having these two different people that having these two different people that are attracted, we're now two whole are attracted, we're now two whole are attracted, we're now two whole people collectively. And that people collectively. And that people collectively. And that strengthens us individually and strengthens us individually and strengthens us individually and collectively long term. collectively long term. collectively long term. >> I couldn't agree more. I I if whenever >> I couldn't agree more. I I if whenever >> I couldn't agree more. I I if whenever people ask me and Radhi, it's our 10 people ask me and Radhi, it's our 10 people ask me and Radhi, it's our 10 year wedding anniversary this year. year wedding anniversary this year. year wedding anniversary this year. >> Congratulations. And and when I think >> Congratulations. And and when I think >> Congratulations. And and when I think about what's worked, because there've about what's worked, because there've about what's worked, because there've been tough conversations, there's been been tough conversations, there's been been tough conversations, there's been growth, there's been both of us taking growth, there's been both of us taking growth, there's been both of us taking responsibility and accountability and responsibility and accountability and responsibility and accountability and I'm like the best thing that's happened I'm like the best thing that's happened I'm like the best thing that's happened is the best parts of us have rubbed off is the best parts of us have rubbed off is the best parts of us have rubbed off onto the other person and the worst onto the other person and the worst onto the other person and the worst parts haven't parts haven't parts haven't >> and that is the only thing I can come >> and that is the only thing I can come >> and that is the only thing I can come down to. It's like so me and Radi down to. It's like so me and Radi down to. It's like so me and Radi similarly Radi spontaneous I'm super similarly Radi spontaneous I'm super similarly Radi spontaneous I'm super hyperfocused and I've become more hyperfocused and I've become more hyperfocused and I've become more spontaneous and more casual in our spontaneous and more casual in our spontaneous and more casual in our relationship with our timing and things relationship with our timing and things relationship with our timing and things like that and she's become more like that and she's become more like that and she's become more organized in her work and focused and organized in her work and focused and organized in her work and focused and driven in her her profession and then driven in her her profession and then driven in her her profession and then Radi's super healthy and you know really Radi's super healthy and you know really Radi's super healthy and you know really healthconscious and exercise diet healthconscious and exercise diet healthconscious and exercise diet everything that's really rubbed off on everything that's really rubbed off on everything that's really rubbed off on me and so she's taught me that and I'm me and so she's taught me that and I'm me and so she's taught me that and I'm like that's what's worked and it's but like that's what's worked and it's but like that's what's worked and it's but you both got to have the humility you both got to have the humility you both got to have the humility to be able to learn from the other to be able to learn from the other to be able to learn from the other person and I think you have to have the person and I think you have to have the person and I think you have to have the humility to not want to teach the other humility to not want to teach the other humility to not want to teach the other person. So I don't think in what you person. So I don't think in what you person. So I don't think in what you said in the way you're talking about said in the way you're talking about said in the way you're talking about these conversations I never went up to these conversations I never went up to these conversations I never went up to Radi and said I think you need to be Radi and said I think you need to be Radi and said I think you need to be more organized and she never came up to more organized and she never came up to more organized and she never came up to me and goes I think you need to be more me and goes I think you need to be more me and goes I think you need to be more healthy like if it's almost like the healthy like if it's almost like the healthy like if it's almost like the humility to not teach and the humility humility to not teach and the humility humility to not teach and the humility to learn and that's fascinating because to learn and that's fascinating because to learn and that's fascinating because most of us think oh yeah I wish my most of us think oh yeah I wish my most of us think oh yeah I wish my partner was a bit more like me and I'm partner was a bit more like me and I'm partner was a bit more like me and I'm going to go tell them how they can be going to go tell them how they can be going to go tell them how they can be like me and it's like well no no it's like me and it's like well no no it's like me and it's like well no no it's you live the quality so well that it you live the quality so well that it you live the quality so well that it becomes attractive like I know Radi becomes attractive like I know Radi becomes attractive like I know Radi really values going to the gym, really really values going to the gym, really really values going to the gym, really values eating well. She sees how alert values eating well. She sees how alert values eating well. She sees how alert it makes her. And when you see that it makes her. And when you see that it makes her. And when you see that change in someone, you feel inspired change in someone, you feel inspired change in someone, you feel inspired that I want to do it, too. And so, it's that I want to do it, too. And so, it's that I want to do it, too. And so, it's so fascinating how Yeah. I'd say so fascinating how Yeah. I'd say so fascinating how Yeah. I'd say successful relationships are when the successful relationships are when the successful relationships are when the good things you both have rub off on good things you both have rub off on good things you both have rub off on each other and the bad things don't. And each other and the bad things don't. And each other and the bad things don't. And that simple principle allows you to have that simple principle allows you to have that simple principle allows you to have the humility to learn from your partner the humility to learn from your partner the humility to learn from your partner and not have the ego to want to teach and not have the ego to want to teach and not have the ego to want to teach them. and those two things seemed to them. and those two things seemed to them. and those two things seemed to make sense. make sense. make sense. >> I thought that was so beautiful the way >> I thought that was so beautiful the way >> I thought that was so beautiful the way you said that. That actually really you said that. That actually really you said that. That actually really touched my heart. You said the the best touched my heart. You said the the best touched my heart. You said the the best things rubbed off on one another, but things rubbed off on one another, but things rubbed off on one another, but the harder things didn't. And like I the harder things didn't. And like I the harder things didn't. And like I just think that's such a beautiful just think that's such a beautiful just think that's such a beautiful example of a truly healthy, harmonious example of a truly healthy, harmonious example of a truly healthy, harmonious relationship. And and that's that's that relationship. And and that's that's that relationship. And and that's that's that um for people who are like, "How do I um for people who are like, "How do I um for people who are like, "How do I have the humility? How do I have the humility? How do I have the humility? How do I communicate?" That's that feelings need communicate?" That's that feelings need communicate?" That's that feelings need framework. When you communicate, hey, I framework. When you communicate, hey, I framework. When you communicate, hey, I I need this. Hey, I need a little I need this. Hey, I need a little I need this. Hey, I need a little flexibility sometimes from you. Or hey, flexibility sometimes from you. Or hey, flexibility sometimes from you. Or hey, I need you to sometimes be mindful of I need you to sometimes be mindful of I need you to sometimes be mindful of me. when you say it with like this this me. when you say it with like this this me. when you say it with like this this humbleness, you come to the table of humbleness, you come to the table of humbleness, you come to the table of like I care about you and sometimes they like I care about you and sometimes they like I care about you and sometimes they need to lean on you in this way and vice need to lean on you in this way and vice need to lean on you in this way and vice versa that is a big part of what what versa that is a big part of what what versa that is a big part of what what opens those dialogues and those opens those dialogues and those opens those dialogues and those conversations to be more mindful and conversations to be more mindful and conversations to be more mindful and then of course like you said when then of course like you said when then of course like you said when somebody's living in their best version somebody's living in their best version somebody's living in their best version of themselves they step into that truth of themselves they step into that truth of themselves they step into that truth and that's inspiring to be around 100% and that's inspiring to be around 100% and that's inspiring to be around 100% >> contagious. Okay, one more scenario >> contagious. Okay, one more scenario >> contagious. Okay, one more scenario before we uh do a couple of segments. So before we uh do a couple of segments. So before we uh do a couple of segments. So this one is one partner is ready to this one is one partner is ready to this one is one partner is ready to commit the other becomes uncertain as commit the other becomes uncertain as commit the other becomes uncertain as things deepen. How do you tell fear from things deepen. How do you tell fear from things deepen. How do you tell fear from a real mismatch? a real mismatch? a real mismatch? >> Beautiful question. So, I always find >> Beautiful question. So, I always find >> Beautiful question. So, I always find it's going to boil back down to these it's going to boil back down to these it's going to boil back down to these same types of themes and pillars. So, same types of themes and pillars. So, same types of themes and pillars. So, first thing is you have to have a real first thing is you have to have a real first thing is you have to have a real conversation. Like if we sort of have conversation. Like if we sort of have conversation. Like if we sort of have these trajectories that relationships these trajectories that relationships these trajectories that relationships follow that I found, which is that if follow that I found, which is that if follow that I found, which is that if you don't do anything really direct, if you don't do anything really direct, if you don't do anything really direct, if you don't have a really vulnerable you don't have a really vulnerable you don't have a really vulnerable conversation, instead what happens is conversation, instead what happens is conversation, instead what happens is one person's like, "Oh, they don't want one person's like, "Oh, they don't want one person's like, "Oh, they don't want to commit." They make it mean things to commit." They make it mean things to commit." They make it mean things about themselves, especially if they about themselves, especially if they about themselves, especially if they have a lot of core wounds. like, "Oh, am have a lot of core wounds. like, "Oh, am have a lot of core wounds. like, "Oh, am I not good enough? Am I unlovable? Am I I not good enough? Am I unlovable? Am I I not good enough? Am I unlovable? Am I unworthy?" And then they they project unworthy?" And then they they project unworthy?" And then they they project those onto situations or the person those onto situations or the person those onto situations or the person keeps dragging their feet and the other keeps dragging their feet and the other keeps dragging their feet and the other person self silences and they just feel person self silences and they just feel person self silences and they just feel resentful in the relationship. Then that resentful in the relationship. Then that resentful in the relationship. Then that comes out in different ways and it's comes out in different ways and it's comes out in different ways and it's more arguments or disagreements. So the more arguments or disagreements. So the more arguments or disagreements. So the only actual reasonable solution is to only actual reasonable solution is to only actual reasonable solution is to truly hash it out. And so we go and we truly hash it out. And so we go and we truly hash it out. And so we go and we say, "Hey, you know, here's what I'm say, "Hey, you know, here's what I'm say, "Hey, you know, here's what I'm looking for. I'm looking for a looking for. I'm looking for a looking for. I'm looking for a commitment. Here's why. And here's like commitment. Here's why. And here's like commitment. Here's why. And here's like what, you know, paint that picture. What what, you know, paint that picture. What what, you know, paint that picture. What does that time frame look like?" and be does that time frame look like?" and be does that time frame look like?" and be really honest and transparent. And then really honest and transparent. And then really honest and transparent. And then the other person has to say what's the other person has to say what's the other person has to say what's holding them back. And often times what holding them back. And often times what holding them back. And often times what I found because I've done a lot of these I found because I've done a lot of these I found because I've done a lot of these specific conversations with people in specific conversations with people in specific conversations with people in relationships and usually what's relationships and usually what's relationships and usually what's actually happening is that that actually happening is that that actually happening is that that conversation will be the catalyst for conversation will be the catalyst for conversation will be the catalyst for some deeply unresolved needs and some deeply unresolved needs and some deeply unresolved needs and relationships. More often than not, the relationships. More often than not, the relationships. More often than not, the person who's dragging their feet in person who's dragging their feet in person who's dragging their feet in commitment the most is deeply directly commitment the most is deeply directly commitment the most is deeply directly running in parallel to the person who's running in parallel to the person who's running in parallel to the person who's also not communicating their needs in also not communicating their needs in also not communicating their needs in relationships. And so they're afraid to relationships. And so they're afraid to relationships. And so they're afraid to commit. And a lot of times people's commit. And a lot of times people's commit. And a lot of times people's commitment fears are yes coming from commitment fears are yes coming from commitment fears are yes coming from core wounds of being trapped or helpless core wounds of being trapped or helpless core wounds of being trapped or helpless or powerless in in that pillar. But a or powerless in in that pillar. But a or powerless in in that pillar. But a lot more of the time commitment fears lot more of the time commitment fears lot more of the time commitment fears are rooted in somebody not knowing how are rooted in somebody not knowing how are rooted in somebody not knowing how to communicate their needs. So they're to communicate their needs. So they're to communicate their needs. So they're more scared to get trapped because more scared to get trapped because more scared to get trapped because they're like, "Well, what if I commit to they're like, "Well, what if I commit to they're like, "Well, what if I commit to this and then I don't feel fully this and then I don't feel fully this and then I don't feel fully fulfilled or have my needs met?" But fulfilled or have my needs met?" But fulfilled or have my needs met?" But once they learn to communicate their once they learn to communicate their once they learn to communicate their needs, a lot of those conversations needs, a lot of those conversations needs, a lot of those conversations usually end up being things like, "Hey, usually end up being things like, "Hey, usually end up being things like, "Hey, yeah, I guess like one of the reasons yeah, I guess like one of the reasons yeah, I guess like one of the reasons I'm afraid to commit is I'm scared that I'm afraid to commit is I'm scared that I'm afraid to commit is I'm scared that I'm going to lose, you know, my time I'm going to lose, you know, my time I'm going to lose, you know, my time with my friends sometimes." And I need with my friends sometimes." And I need with my friends sometimes." And I need to be able to have that in in the long to be able to have that in in the long to be able to have that in in the long term and go off and hang out with the term and go off and hang out with the term and go off and hang out with the boys sometimes or go have a girls boys sometimes or go have a girls boys sometimes or go have a girls weekend or whatever it might be. And weekend or whatever it might be. And weekend or whatever it might be. And then the person's like, "Oh, I can honor then the person's like, "Oh, I can honor then the person's like, "Oh, I can honor that. I can make that a part of our that. I can make that a part of our that. I can make that a part of our marriage. I can, you know, and it's this marriage. I can, you know, and it's this marriage. I can, you know, and it's this catalyst to a huge breakthrough." Or catalyst to a huge breakthrough." Or catalyst to a huge breakthrough." Or sometimes it's things like, hey, I guess sometimes it's things like, hey, I guess sometimes it's things like, hey, I guess what's holding me back is sometimes I what's holding me back is sometimes I what's holding me back is sometimes I feel like I get criticized more than I feel like I get criticized more than I feel like I get criticized more than I feel good about and it makes me want to feel good about and it makes me want to feel good about and it makes me want to pull away and I'm not sure if I see that pull away and I'm not sure if I see that pull away and I'm not sure if I see that being, you know, something I'm really being, you know, something I'm really being, you know, something I'm really happy in long term and then the person happy in long term and then the person happy in long term and then the person hears that and they're able to say, "Oh hears that and they're able to say, "Oh hears that and they're able to say, "Oh my gosh, it's time for me to clean up my gosh, it's time for me to clean up my gosh, it's time for me to clean up the way I communicate." And then there's the way I communicate." And then there's the way I communicate." And then there's this breakthrough and they both feel this breakthrough and they both feel this breakthrough and they both feel safer. So I would love to tell people, safer. So I would love to tell people, safer. So I would love to tell people, hey, there's some manipulative easy fix hey, there's some manipulative easy fix hey, there's some manipulative easy fix where you tell them this thing and you where you tell them this thing and you where you tell them this thing and you say, "I'll do if you don't, you know, say, "I'll do if you don't, you know, say, "I'll do if you don't, you know, commit, I'll leave and give an commit, I'll leave and give an commit, I'll leave and give an ultimatum." ultimatum." ultimatum." you're selling yourself short and the you're selling yourself short and the you're selling yourself short and the relationship short by not saying, "Hey, relationship short by not saying, "Hey, relationship short by not saying, "Hey, this is what I'm really looking for. this is what I'm really looking for. this is what I'm really looking for. Here's why. Tell me what's coming up for Here's why. Tell me what's coming up for Here's why. Tell me what's coming up for you. I want to understand." And when we you. I want to understand." And when we you. I want to understand." And when we do that, and have that same humility to do that, and have that same humility to do that, and have that same humility to really go there with an open heart and really go there with an open heart and really go there with an open heart and open mind, usually there's big open mind, usually there's big open mind, usually there's big breakthroughs. breakthroughs. breakthroughs. >> Yeah. What happens when we've talked a >> Yeah. What happens when we've talked a >> Yeah. What happens when we've talked a lot about dating, we've talked about lot about dating, we've talked about lot about dating, we've talked about being in a relationship. What happens being in a relationship. What happens being in a relationship. What happens when you set your boundary, you've done when you set your boundary, you've done when you set your boundary, you've done some of the selfwork, maybe they have some of the selfwork, maybe they have some of the selfwork, maybe they have too, and then they decide to leave you? too, and then they decide to leave you? too, and then they decide to leave you? >> Beautiful question. and someone breaks >> Beautiful question. and someone breaks >> Beautiful question. and someone breaks up with you and you've done the work. up with you and you've done the work. up with you and you've done the work. You've been trying to figure it out, but You've been trying to figure it out, but You've been trying to figure it out, but the subconscious and the conditioning the subconscious and the conditioning the subconscious and the conditioning was so strong that it was overriding was so strong that it was overriding was so strong that it was overriding everything and for both of you just too everything and for both of you just too everything and for both of you just too difficult. That person breaks up with difficult. That person breaks up with difficult. That person breaks up with you. How does an anxious attachment you. How does an anxious attachment you. How does an anxious attachment style and an avoidant attachment style, style and an avoidant attachment style, style and an avoidant attachment style, how can they correctly deal with a how can they correctly deal with a how can they correctly deal with a breakup? breakup? breakup? >> I love this question too. Okay, >> I love this question too. Okay, >> I love this question too. Okay, >> so one of my favorite topics is is >> so one of my favorite topics is is >> so one of my favorite topics is is actually um grief. And a breakup is actually um grief. And a breakup is actually um grief. And a breakup is grief. And when we actually look at grief. And when we actually look at grief. And when we actually look at grief, I think grief is one of the most grief, I think grief is one of the most grief, I think grief is one of the most misunderstood things in our society misunderstood things in our society misunderstood things in our society because we think time heals all wounds because we think time heals all wounds because we think time heals all wounds or we think these things and honestly or we think these things and honestly or we think these things and honestly it's just not the case. Wounds can last it's just not the case. Wounds can last it's just not the case. Wounds can last for a very long time. Um but when we go for a very long time. Um but when we go for a very long time. Um but when we go through a breakup, it's grief because through a breakup, it's grief because through a breakup, it's grief because what happens when we get into a what happens when we get into a what happens when we get into a relationship is the mind attaches to relationship is the mind attaches to relationship is the mind attaches to another person. And when we attach to another person. And when we attach to another person. And when we attach to another person deeply, that's when our another person deeply, that's when our another person deeply, that's when our attachment behaviors exhibit themselves attachment behaviors exhibit themselves attachment behaviors exhibit themselves the most. But when we attach, what we're the most. But when we attach, what we're the most. But when we attach, what we're actually attaching to is very much the actually attaching to is very much the actually attaching to is very much the non-physical. So this is kind of a non-physical. So this is kind of a non-physical. So this is kind of a morbid example, but if somebody passes morbid example, but if somebody passes morbid example, but if somebody passes away, it's not their physical body that away, it's not their physical body that away, it's not their physical body that you miss. If their physical body was you miss. If their physical body was you miss. If their physical body was around in your house or something like around in your house or something like around in your house or something like you're not going to be like, I feel you're not going to be like, I feel you're not going to be like, I feel better. It's all the non-physical. So better. It's all the non-physical. So better. It's all the non-physical. So true. true. true. >> That we miss. And so we have to then ask >> That we miss. And so we have to then ask >> That we miss. And so we have to then ask the question, well, what is the the question, well, what is the the question, well, what is the non-physical? non-physical? non-physical? >> Well, it really boils down to a couple >> Well, it really boils down to a couple >> Well, it really boils down to a couple of really major things. Number one, the of really major things. Number one, the of really major things. Number one, the need somebody met in your life that we need somebody met in your life that we need somebody met in your life that we were used to them meeting. Maybe that were used to them meeting. Maybe that were used to them meeting. Maybe that person made you feel seen or heard or person made you feel seen or heard or person made you feel seen or heard or loved or validated. And maybe they loved or validated. And maybe they loved or validated. And maybe they weren't even doing a good job because it weren't even doing a good job because it weren't even doing a good job because it led to the breakup. But if they met your led to the breakup. But if they met your led to the breakup. But if they met your need a three out of 10 and you were need a three out of 10 and you were need a three out of 10 and you were meeting your need one out of 10 to feel meeting your need one out of 10 to feel meeting your need one out of 10 to feel validated, you're going to keep going validated, you're going to keep going validated, you're going to keep going back for those breadcrumbs cuz you're back for those breadcrumbs cuz you're back for those breadcrumbs cuz you're starving. So the first part is that starving. So the first part is that starving. So the first part is that grief is the detachment of we were used grief is the detachment of we were used grief is the detachment of we were used to having these needs met in our life. to having these needs met in our life. to having these needs met in our life. Suddenly the person's gone. They took Suddenly the person's gone. They took Suddenly the person's gone. They took our needs with them. And there's a void our needs with them. And there's a void our needs with them. And there's a void left behind. And that void is a big part left behind. And that void is a big part left behind. And that void is a big part of what we experience as grief. Step of what we experience as grief. Step of what we experience as grief. Step one. Number two, grief. And this is a one. Number two, grief. And this is a one. Number two, grief. And this is a very sacred thing I believe, but grief very sacred thing I believe, but grief very sacred thing I believe, but grief is also who we became around that is also who we became around that is also who we became around that person, the part of ourselves that we person, the part of ourselves that we person, the part of ourselves that we got to express. And I had times back in got to express. And I had times back in got to express. And I had times back in my practice when I was running my my my practice when I was running my my my practice when I was running my my client practice before our our online client practice before our our online client practice before our our online programs where I would work with people programs where I would work with people programs where I would work with people in loss. And I remember one time I in loss. And I remember one time I in loss. And I remember one time I worked with somebody on the loss of a worked with somebody on the loss of a worked with somebody on the loss of a child and it was a very tragic child and it was a very tragic child and it was a very tragic situation. and her really, you know, big situation. and her really, you know, big situation. and her really, you know, big breakthrough that led her to really breakthrough that led her to really breakthrough that led her to really start healing is she realized what she start healing is she realized what she start healing is she realized what she was grieving the most years later when was grieving the most years later when was grieving the most years later when she came to me. She'd been grieving for she came to me. She'd been grieving for she came to me. She'd been grieving for years and wasn't really getting years and wasn't really getting years and wasn't really getting anywhere. She realized that what she anywhere. She realized that what she anywhere. She realized that what she missed the most was that she felt like missed the most was that she felt like missed the most was that she felt like she was a nurturer she was a nurturer she was a nurturer >> and a protector and a caretaker and a >> and a protector and a caretaker and a >> and a protector and a caretaker and a contributor and these really beautiful contributor and these really beautiful contributor and these really beautiful sacred expressions of herself that she sacred expressions of herself that she sacred expressions of herself that she because she was going through that grief because she was going through that grief because she was going through that grief and then hadn't had another child again, and then hadn't had another child again, and then hadn't had another child again, she didn't feel like she had anywhere to she didn't feel like she had anywhere to she didn't feel like she had anywhere to express that or become that. And so, you express that or become that. And so, you express that or become that. And so, you know, what she ultimately did is then know, what she ultimately did is then know, what she ultimately did is then started this beautiful charity that started this beautiful charity that started this beautiful charity that helped kids in a similar situation. And helped kids in a similar situation. And helped kids in a similar situation. And and that deeply healed her heart. And and that deeply healed her heart. And and that deeply healed her heart. And and so grief is also when we lose and so grief is also when we lose and so grief is also when we lose somebody, we lose the aspects of somebody, we lose the aspects of somebody, we lose the aspects of ourselves that we got to express in ourselves that we got to express in ourselves that we got to express in their company. And so, you know, those their company. And so, you know, those their company. And so, you know, those are two big pillars of grief. And then are two big pillars of grief. And then are two big pillars of grief. And then third is we have all these stories. We third is we have all these stories. We third is we have all these stories. We say, "I was all my fault. I'm not good say, "I was all my fault. I'm not good say, "I was all my fault. I'm not good enough." You know, the backs of the poor enough." You know, the backs of the poor enough." You know, the backs of the poor wound. So, that's a big part of rewiring wound. So, that's a big part of rewiring wound. So, that's a big part of rewiring it. But what I actually get people to do it. But what I actually get people to do it. But what I actually get people to do if they go through a breakup, and if they go through a breakup, and if they go through a breakup, and usually when people go through a breakup usually when people go through a breakup usually when people go through a breakup like that, it's because they tried to like that, it's because they tried to like that, it's because they tried to start doing the work when they already start doing the work when they already start doing the work when they already had too many resentments and they were had too many resentments and they were had too many resentments and they were already, you know, half checked out. But already, you know, half checked out. But already, you know, half checked out. But if you go through that breakup, one of if you go through that breakup, one of if you go through that breakup, one of the fastest ways to truly heal grief the fastest ways to truly heal grief the fastest ways to truly heal grief from a breakup is to write out what were from a breakup is to write out what were from a breakup is to write out what were all of those needs this person met. I all of those needs this person met. I all of those needs this person met. I now have to start meeting those needs in now have to start meeting those needs in now have to start meeting those needs in myself. And I have to start sell I have myself. And I have to start sell I have myself. And I have to start sell I have to start resourcing them in healthy ways to start resourcing them in healthy ways to start resourcing them in healthy ways with healthy people in my life. And as with healthy people in my life. And as with healthy people in my life. And as we do, we fill up that void that was we do, we fill up that void that was we do, we fill up that void that was left behind from that person. And it left behind from that person. And it left behind from that person. And it heals our heart. It heals us deeply. And heals our heart. It heals us deeply. And heals our heart. It heals us deeply. And part of why people say time heal heals part of why people say time heal heals part of why people say time heal heals all wounds is because human beings are all wounds is because human beings are all wounds is because human beings are naturally adaptable. And in time, they naturally adaptable. And in time, they naturally adaptable. And in time, they start to learn to resource their needs start to learn to resource their needs start to learn to resource their needs in other ways. It's not time doing that. in other ways. It's not time doing that. in other ways. It's not time doing that. It's our natural adaptiveness that's It's our natural adaptiveness that's It's our natural adaptiveness that's doing that for us. But we can fasttrack doing that for us. But we can fasttrack doing that for us. But we can fasttrack that process by being more conscious and that process by being more conscious and that process by being more conscious and intentional about it. The secondary part intentional about it. The secondary part intentional about it. The secondary part of it is is who were you? Who who did of it is is who were you? Who who did of it is is who were you? Who who did you become when you had this loss? And a you become when you had this loss? And a you become when you had this loss? And a lot of times it's these beautiful things lot of times it's these beautiful things lot of times it's these beautiful things like I was a protector, I was a like I was a protector, I was a like I was a protector, I was a caretaker, I was a contributor. And when caretaker, I was a contributor. And when caretaker, I was a contributor. And when we look at who we became and we work to we look at who we became and we work to we look at who we became and we work to keep expressing those aspects of self, keep expressing those aspects of self, keep expressing those aspects of self, that is deeply healing for us as well. that is deeply healing for us as well. that is deeply healing for us as well. And that's a really good way to And that's a really good way to And that's a really good way to kickstart moving through the breakup kickstart moving through the breakup kickstart moving through the breakup much more quickly. much more quickly. much more quickly. >> Do you ever truly get over someone? >> Do you ever truly get over someone? >> Do you ever truly get over someone? >> I very much believe that you do. And I >> I very much believe that you do. And I >> I very much believe that you do. And I think that there's times where, you think that there's times where, you think that there's times where, you know, people when we look at grief too, know, people when we look at grief too, know, people when we look at grief too, which is really interesting, is uh one which is really interesting, is uh one which is really interesting, is uh one of the ways that it's actually another of the ways that it's actually another of the ways that it's actually another step that we we um have for how to heal step that we we um have for how to heal step that we we um have for how to heal grief. It's funny cuz I actually forgot grief. It's funny cuz I actually forgot grief. It's funny cuz I actually forgot about this one, is sometimes when we about this one, is sometimes when we about this one, is sometimes when we feel like we lost somebody, there's this feel like we lost somebody, there's this feel like we lost somebody, there's this old saying that there's no such thing as old saying that there's no such thing as old saying that there's no such thing as gain or loss. It's only ever changing gain or loss. It's only ever changing gain or loss. It's only ever changing forms. And when I think of in more forms. And when I think of in more forms. And when I think of in more extreme forms of grief, even like the extreme forms of grief, even like the extreme forms of grief, even like the the lo like a death of somebody, oftent the lo like a death of somebody, oftent the lo like a death of somebody, oftent times, yes, they're not here in the times, yes, they're not here in the times, yes, they're not here in the physical form, but they're here in, you physical form, but they're here in, you physical form, but they're here in, you know, we can meet those needs and we can know, we can meet those needs and we can know, we can meet those needs and we can become that expression of ourselves, but become that expression of ourselves, but become that expression of ourselves, but a lot of times they're still within you a lot of times they're still within you a lot of times they're still within you in their conditioning that they in their conditioning that they in their conditioning that they imprinted or impressed upon you. In imprinted or impressed upon you. In imprinted or impressed upon you. In other words, you know, if it's the loss other words, you know, if it's the loss other words, you know, if it's the loss of a parent, you know, sometimes I get of a parent, you know, sometimes I get of a parent, you know, sometimes I get people to sit down around losses like people to sit down around losses like people to sit down around losses like that and they say, "Okay, what was your that and they say, "Okay, what was your that and they say, "Okay, what was your father?" Oh, my father was a protector. father?" Oh, my father was a protector. father?" Oh, my father was a protector. He was strong. He was assertive. He He was strong. He was assertive. He He was strong. He was assertive. He thought five steps ahead. Where did you thought five steps ahead. Where did you thought five steps ahead. Where did you become that? And what's really beautiful become that? And what's really beautiful become that? And what's really beautiful is when people sit down and they do is when people sit down and they do is when people sit down and they do that, they a lot of times you hear that, they a lot of times you hear that, they a lot of times you hear people say things like, "Oh my god, my people say things like, "Oh my god, my people say things like, "Oh my god, my father's like here as a part of me." And father's like here as a part of me." And father's like here as a part of me." And so I think that we can truly move so I think that we can truly move so I think that we can truly move through a point where we get over the through a point where we get over the through a point where we get over the grief in terms of the suffering. And grief in terms of the suffering. And grief in terms of the suffering. And there's this old saying that grief is there's this old saying that grief is there's this old saying that grief is love with nowhere to go. And I think love with nowhere to go. And I think love with nowhere to go. And I think that when we don't know where to put the that when we don't know where to put the that when we don't know where to put the love cuz we don't know how to express love cuz we don't know how to express love cuz we don't know how to express that part of ourselves or we don't know that part of ourselves or we don't know that part of ourselves or we don't know how to get the needs met or we don't how to get the needs met or we don't how to get the needs met or we don't recognize that that person they're with recognize that that person they're with recognize that that person they're with us in all of these non-physical ways us in all of these non-physical ways us in all of these non-physical ways then it feels like it's very hard to get then it feels like it's very hard to get then it feels like it's very hard to get over somebody. But I think when we start over somebody. But I think when we start over somebody. But I think when we start to actually move through those steps in to actually move through those steps in to actually move through those steps in terms of how we process grief, we kind terms of how we process grief, we kind terms of how we process grief, we kind of feel this connection to somebody in of feel this connection to somebody in of feel this connection to somebody in our heart and we get over the deep our heart and we get over the deep our heart and we get over the deep mourning, the deep grieving. And mourning, the deep grieving. And mourning, the deep grieving. And sometimes we'll miss the person still or sometimes we'll miss the person still or sometimes we'll miss the person still or sometimes we'll feel that care for sometimes we'll feel that care for sometimes we'll feel that care for people we love so deeply. But it doesn't people we love so deeply. But it doesn't people we love so deeply. But it doesn't have to be this painful relationship have to be this painful relationship have to be this painful relationship that we have to that person. that we have to that person. that we have to that person. >> Yeah. Should you feel 100% sure about >> Yeah. Should you feel 100% sure about >> Yeah. Should you feel 100% sure about your partner? your partner? your partner? >> Ooh, good question. These are good >> Ooh, good question. These are good >> Ooh, good question. These are good questions. I love these. Okay, so the questions. I love these. Okay, so the questions. I love these. Okay, so the answer is I would say 100% is a little answer is I would say 100% is a little answer is I would say 100% is a little bit of a fallacy. I would say that we bit of a fallacy. I would say that we bit of a fallacy. I would say that we should feel highly certain, but it's should feel highly certain, but it's should feel highly certain, but it's almost like when people say, and I hear almost like when people say, and I hear almost like when people say, and I hear this all the time, are you 100% ready to this all the time, are you 100% ready to this all the time, are you 100% ready to have kids? You're like, nobody's ever have kids? You're like, nobody's ever have kids? You're like, nobody's ever 100% ready for anything. Are you 100% 100% ready for anything. Are you 100% 100% ready for anything. Are you 100% ready to take that new job to move ready to take that new job to move ready to take that new job to move across the country to you're never going across the country to you're never going across the country to you're never going to feel 100% ready, but there should be to feel 100% ready, but there should be to feel 100% ready, but there should be a high enough degree of certainty where a high enough degree of certainty where a high enough degree of certainty where you feel like, hey, this is me following you feel like, hey, this is me following you feel like, hey, this is me following my heart or taking that leap of faith. my heart or taking that leap of faith. my heart or taking that leap of faith. And that bridge in that leap of faith And that bridge in that leap of faith And that bridge in that leap of faith shouldn't feel like the bridge is like shouldn't feel like the bridge is like shouldn't feel like the bridge is like something you can't surmount or jump something you can't surmount or jump something you can't surmount or jump over. It should feel like, okay, I'm over. It should feel like, okay, I'm over. It should feel like, okay, I'm going to take that small leap of faith going to take that small leap of faith going to take that small leap of faith and there's a smaller gap there. and there's a smaller gap there. and there's a smaller gap there. >> That's a good answer. Yeah, it's I agree >> That's a good answer. Yeah, it's I agree >> That's a good answer. Yeah, it's I agree with you. I don't think there's a 100% with you. I don't think there's a 100% with you. I don't think there's a 100% shortity. If anything, that shortity shortity. If anything, that shortity shortity. If anything, that shortity gets stronger the more time you spend gets stronger the more time you spend gets stronger the more time you spend with someone. And I think that's partly with someone. And I think that's partly with someone. And I think that's partly the challenge that a lot of these things the challenge that a lot of these things the challenge that a lot of these things are only tried and tested and proven are only tried and tested and proven are only tried and tested and proven over time because there is no substitute over time because there is no substitute over time because there is no substitute for time in a relationship because for time in a relationship because for time in a relationship because people change, people grow, people people change, people grow, people people change, people grow, people evolve, you change, you grow, you evolve, you change, you grow, you evolve, you change, you grow, you evolve. And it's really crazy to think evolve. And it's really crazy to think evolve. And it's really crazy to think when you say on your wedding day like when you say on your wedding day like when you say on your wedding day like you know till death do us apart the idea you know till death do us apart the idea you know till death do us apart the idea that you don't really even know what that you don't really even know what that you don't really even know what life's going to look like. And so there life's going to look like. And so there life's going to look like. And so there is a big risk in that commitment because is a big risk in that commitment because is a big risk in that commitment because you don't even know the version of the you don't even know the version of the you don't even know the version of the person that you're going to have to be person that you're going to have to be person that you're going to have to be with in like 5 10 15 20 years. That used with in like 5 10 15 20 years. That used with in like 5 10 15 20 years. That used to be my biggest fear in relationships to be my biggest fear in relationships to be my biggest fear in relationships and this is something that really is and this is something that really is and this is something that really is true like runs deep to my heart. I true like runs deep to my heart. I true like runs deep to my heart. I always used to be like how can you ever always used to be like how can you ever always used to be like how can you ever know that you you trust them now you know that you you trust them now you know that you you trust them now you love them now how can you know you won't love them now how can you know you won't love them now how can you know you won't change your mind or they won't change change your mind or they won't change change your mind or they won't change their mind and it was always this big their mind and it was always this big their mind and it was always this big fear and earlier I mentioned those fear and earlier I mentioned those fear and earlier I mentioned those cycles of relationships dating honeymoon cycles of relationships dating honeymoon cycles of relationships dating honeymoon power struggle stage then we have the power struggle stage then we have the power struggle stage then we have the the uh rhythm stage commitment bliss the uh rhythm stage commitment bliss the uh rhythm stage commitment bliss stage and what I actually found over and stage and what I actually found over and stage and what I actually found over and over again and I experienced this so over again and I experienced this so over again and I experienced this so deeply firsthand and this is actually deeply firsthand and this is actually deeply firsthand and this is actually something I want people so deeply to something I want people so deeply to something I want people so deeply to know and understand because I know know and understand because I know know and understand because I know there's going to be a lot of people like there's going to be a lot of people like there's going to be a lot of people like me who who really struggle at points in me who who really struggle at points in me who who really struggle at points in relationships early on And I had only relationships early on And I had only relationships early on And I had only ever done relationships in dating, ever done relationships in dating, ever done relationships in dating, honeymoon, power struggle, breakup, date honeymoon, power struggle, breakup, date honeymoon, power struggle, breakup, date again, dating, honeymoon, power again, dating, honeymoon, power again, dating, honeymoon, power struggle, breakup. So you think that struggle, breakup. So you think that struggle, breakup. So you think that relationships are just infatuation or relationships are just infatuation or relationships are just infatuation or pain? pain? pain? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And what I learned exactly to your point >> And what I learned exactly to your point >> And what I learned exactly to your point is that real love is built in the power is that real love is built in the power is that real love is built in the power struggle stage the most because we drop struggle stage the most because we drop struggle stage the most because we drop the mask. We're not in our best the mask. We're not in our best the mask. We're not in our best behavior. And you learn to work through behavior. And you learn to work through behavior. And you learn to work through things. And the power struggle is this things. And the power struggle is this things. And the power struggle is this this opportunity. It's this crisis, but this opportunity. It's this crisis, but this opportunity. It's this crisis, but it's also this opportunity to start it's also this opportunity to start it's also this opportunity to start saying, "Hey, this is what's come up for saying, "Hey, this is what's come up for saying, "Hey, this is what's come up for me. This is what I need in these me. This is what I need in these me. This is what I need in these situations. This is what I'm feeling. situations. This is what I'm feeling. situations. This is what I'm feeling. Hey, this is sensitive for me. That's a Hey, this is sensitive for me. That's a Hey, this is sensitive for me. That's a painoint for me. Can you be more painoint for me. Can you be more painoint for me. Can you be more mindful?" And I believe that we really mindful?" And I believe that we really mindful?" And I believe that we really move the needle from more conditionally move the needle from more conditionally move the needle from more conditionally based love to more unconditionally based based love to more unconditionally based based love to more unconditionally based love through having those deeper love through having those deeper love through having those deeper conversations, through doing that work. conversations, through doing that work. conversations, through doing that work. And then we deepen. It's almost like in And then we deepen. It's almost like in And then we deepen. It's almost like in the early stages you have this really the early stages you have this really the early stages you have this really pretty sapling like this really nice pretty sapling like this really nice pretty sapling like this really nice little tree but a windstorm can take it little tree but a windstorm can take it little tree but a windstorm can take it out cuz it's so fragile. But when we out cuz it's so fragile. But when we out cuz it's so fragile. But when we have those meaningful conversations have those meaningful conversations have those meaningful conversations again and again and we build and we grow again and again and we build and we grow again and again and we build and we grow and then all of a sudden you know your and then all of a sudden you know your and then all of a sudden you know your partner's you know biggest pain points partner's you know biggest pain points partner's you know biggest pain points and you're mindful of them and you know and you're mindful of them and you know and you're mindful of them and you know when somebody else hit them and you're when somebody else hit them and you're when somebody else hit them and you're there to to show up for them and there to to show up for them and there to to show up for them and caretake for them and be sensitive to caretake for them and be sensitive to caretake for them and be sensitive to them and that and they're that for you them and that and they're that for you them and that and they're that for you too. Now you deepen roots in love in too. Now you deepen roots in love in too. Now you deepen roots in love in such a different way where those ideas such a different way where those ideas such a different way where those ideas of like oh what if somebody else came of like oh what if somebody else came of like oh what if somebody else came along and one of us changed our mind you along and one of us changed our mind you along and one of us changed our mind you know that it's such a silly thing know that it's such a silly thing know that it's such a silly thing >> and I could never conceive of that at >> and I could never conceive of that at >> and I could never conceive of that at one point in my life because I had so one point in my life because I had so one point in my life because I had so many wounds around relationships and so many wounds around relationships and so many wounds around relationships and so many fears and it's only through that many fears and it's only through that many fears and it's only through that beauty of like having those beauty of like having those beauty of like having those conversations and doing the work and conversations and doing the work and conversations and doing the work and deepening that connection in such a real deepening that connection in such a real deepening that connection in such a real way that then like some silly frivolous way that then like some silly frivolous way that then like some silly frivolous thing that oh something attractive could thing that oh something attractive could thing that oh something attractive could come along and you could change it like come along and you could change it like come along and you could change it like it seems so almost like, you know, like it seems so almost like, you know, like it seems so almost like, you know, like like silly, like you can laugh at it like silly, like you can laugh at it like silly, like you can laugh at it after a while, but that's because I after a while, but that's because I after a while, but that's because I think the real work isn't that you're think the real work isn't that you're think the real work isn't that you're going to be 100% sure. It's that you going to be 100% sure. It's that you going to be 100% sure. It's that you build that 100 or close to 100% build that 100 or close to 100% build that 100 or close to 100% certainty through all of those certainty through all of those certainty through all of those meaningful conversations that you're meaningful conversations that you're meaningful conversations that you're building over time. And I really believe building over time. And I really believe building over time. And I really believe love isn't just given. I think love has love isn't just given. I think love has love isn't just given. I think love has really grown and I think that's part of really grown and I think that's part of really grown and I think that's part of what allows us to to foster that with what allows us to to foster that with what allows us to to foster that with people. people. people. >> I agree with you. I was I was having >> I agree with you. I was I was having >> I agree with you. I was I was having this conversation with someone that life this conversation with someone that life this conversation with someone that life would be in line what you just would be in line what you just would be in line what you just explained. Life would be somewhat more explained. Life would be somewhat more explained. Life would be somewhat more entertaining if you went from dating to entertaining if you went from dating to entertaining if you went from dating to honeymoon and then broke at the power honeymoon and then broke at the power honeymoon and then broke at the power struggle and just kept doing that circle struggle and just kept doing that circle struggle and just kept doing that circle again because you'd keep getting this again because you'd keep getting this again because you'd keep getting this honeymoon period. But the honeymoon honeymoon period. But the honeymoon honeymoon period. But the honeymoon period requires no growth. And the period requires no growth. And the period requires no growth. And the growth over time is what allows you to growth over time is what allows you to growth over time is what allows you to realize the value of any relationship. realize the value of any relationship. realize the value of any relationship. And in when I wrote my second book, And in when I wrote my second book, And in when I wrote my second book, eight rules of love, it was all based on eight rules of love, it was all based on eight rules of love, it was all based on the eastern teachings which is every the eastern teachings which is every the eastern teachings which is every stage of life is called an ashram. And stage of life is called an ashram. And stage of life is called an ashram. And an ashram by definition is a place of an ashram by definition is a place of an ashram by definition is a place of growth. growth. growth. >> And so being on your own is an ashram. >> And so being on your own is an ashram. >> And so being on your own is an ashram. And then being with a partner is an And then being with a partner is an And then being with a partner is an ashram. And the ashram is a place of ashram. And the ashram is a place of ashram. And the ashram is a place of growth, a place of evolution. And so I growth, a place of evolution. And so I growth, a place of evolution. And so I think our views of love have been so think our views of love have been so think our views of love have been so warped by just happiness or pleasure warped by just happiness or pleasure warped by just happiness or pleasure that you forget that the greatest joy a that you forget that the greatest joy a that you forget that the greatest joy a human can feel is the challenge. And human can feel is the challenge. And human can feel is the challenge. And ultimately you're choosing someone that ultimately you're choosing someone that ultimately you're choosing someone that you like to be challenged by you like to be challenged by you like to be challenged by >> that likes to be challenged by you and >> that likes to be challenged by you and >> that likes to be challenged by you and where the challenge becomes enjoyable where the challenge becomes enjoyable where the challenge becomes enjoyable and joyful as opposed to the challenge and joyful as opposed to the challenge and joyful as opposed to the challenge being exhausting and tiring and painful. being exhausting and tiring and painful. being exhausting and tiring and painful. >> Absolutely >> Absolutely >> Absolutely >> right. It's like that's at least what's >> right. It's like that's at least what's >> right. It's like that's at least what's resonated with me. That's so beautiful. resonated with me. That's so beautiful. resonated with me. That's so beautiful. I love that. I love that idea too that I love that. I love that idea too that I love that. I love that idea too that like the relationship is the ashroom. like the relationship is the ashroom. like the relationship is the ashroom. And sort of like we were talking about And sort of like we were talking about And sort of like we were talking about like really the one of my favorite like really the one of my favorite like really the one of my favorite quotes that reminds me of this is from quotes that reminds me of this is from quotes that reminds me of this is from Roomie and Roomie says if I am irritated Roomie and Roomie says if I am irritated Roomie and Roomie says if I am irritated by every rub, how will I ever be by every rub, how will I ever be by every rub, how will I ever be polished? polished? polished? >> And it's this idea that like everything >> And it's this idea that like everything >> And it's this idea that like everything I think we so we're so quick to jump to I think we so we're so quick to jump to I think we so we're so quick to jump to the conclusion that the hard things or the conclusion that the hard things or the conclusion that the hard things or the painful things are things that oh no the painful things are things that oh no the painful things are things that oh no like this shouldn't be happening. Why is like this shouldn't be happening. Why is like this shouldn't be happening. Why is this happening to me? But I actually this happening to me? But I actually this happening to me? But I actually believe that and this is actually again believe that and this is actually again believe that and this is actually again I went through a lot of this work on I went through a lot of this work on I went through a lot of this work on myself first but I remember being so myself first but I remember being so myself first but I remember being so scared to see people in pain. I couldn't scared to see people in pain. I couldn't scared to see people in pain. I couldn't handle it. I was a little codependent handle it. I was a little codependent handle it. I was a little codependent and somebody would be in pain and I and somebody would be in pain and I and somebody would be in pain and I wanted to like fix it for them right wanted to like fix it for them right wanted to like fix it for them right now. now. now. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And when I really started to reflect I >> And when I really started to reflect I >> And when I really started to reflect I did this exercise once and I went and did this exercise once and I went and did this exercise once and I went and looked at the hardest times in my life. looked at the hardest times in my life. looked at the hardest times in my life. I wrote them all on paper like the big I wrote them all on paper like the big I wrote them all on paper like the big ones, the really hard ones individually. ones, the really hard ones individually. ones, the really hard ones individually. And I I went through and I looked at, And I I went through and I looked at, And I I went through and I looked at, okay, what did this give me? What was okay, what did this give me? What was okay, what did this give me? What was the hidden gift? and how did this serve the hidden gift? and how did this serve the hidden gift? and how did this serve me? How did this grow me? What did I me? How did this grow me? What did I me? How did this grow me? What did I learn? And oh my goodness, by the end of learn? And oh my goodness, by the end of learn? And oh my goodness, by the end of that, I was like tears of like relief that, I was like tears of like relief that, I was like tears of like relief and gratitude because I noticed that in and gratitude because I noticed that in and gratitude because I noticed that in every really hard time, there was this every really hard time, there was this every really hard time, there was this like invaluable lesson that I learned. like invaluable lesson that I learned. like invaluable lesson that I learned. And I really believe that God puts on And I really believe that God puts on And I really believe that God puts on our path for a reason. And I was able to our path for a reason. And I was able to our path for a reason. And I was able to go, oh my gosh, like there was a time go, oh my gosh, like there was a time go, oh my gosh, like there was a time where I was going through and trying to where I was going through and trying to where I was going through and trying to get sober and I tried to reach out to get sober and I tried to reach out to get sober and I tried to reach out to people and I really didn't get the people and I really didn't get the people and I really didn't get the support that I needed at that time. And support that I needed at that time. And support that I needed at that time. And also cuz I was difficult at that time of also cuz I was difficult at that time of also cuz I was difficult at that time of my life too. I understand why. And it my life too. I understand why. And it my life too. I understand why. And it was so painful for me at the time. And I was so painful for me at the time. And I was so painful for me at the time. And I thought like I'll never get over it. And thought like I'll never get over it. And thought like I'll never get over it. And it was so healing for me to realize like it was so healing for me to realize like it was so healing for me to realize like because I didn't go looking outside of because I didn't go looking outside of because I didn't go looking outside of myself for something in those moments myself for something in those moments myself for something in those moments that brought me into relationship to that brought me into relationship to that brought me into relationship to myself into relationship to God. I felt myself into relationship to God. I felt myself into relationship to God. I felt like I really found a relationship to like I really found a relationship to like I really found a relationship to God in those moments and through those God in those moments and through those God in those moments and through those times. And it was like how could you times. And it was like how could you times. And it was like how could you ever want something other than that? ever want something other than that? ever want something other than that? Like how could like thank God that I Like how could like thank God that I Like how could like thank God that I went through that and it was like this went through that and it was like this went through that and it was like this really big relief. And so I think really big relief. And so I think really big relief. And so I think sometimes we we're so quick to think sometimes we we're so quick to think sometimes we we're so quick to think pain shouldn't be happening. Bad things pain shouldn't be happening. Bad things pain shouldn't be happening. Bad things shouldn't be happening. Things in shouldn't be happening. Things in shouldn't be happening. Things in relationships should just be easy all relationships should just be easy all relationships should just be easy all the time. But it's like sometimes pain the time. But it's like sometimes pain the time. But it's like sometimes pain is the greatest teacher and actually is the greatest teacher and actually is the greatest teacher and actually presents to us if we are willing to look presents to us if we are willing to look presents to us if we are willing to look and find those things the greatest gifts and find those things the greatest gifts and find those things the greatest gifts and in what's going to grow us in that and in what's going to grow us in that and in what's going to grow us in that next season of our lives. next season of our lives. next season of our lives. >> Well said. Uh Tes, we want to play this >> Well said. Uh Tes, we want to play this >> Well said. Uh Tes, we want to play this game with you called this or that game with you called this or that game with you called this or that relationship edition. So we're going to relationship edition. So we're going to relationship edition. So we're going to ask you this or that and then you ask you this or that and then you ask you this or that and then you choose. choose. choose. >> So TA, slow things down to match their >> So TA, slow things down to match their >> So TA, slow things down to match their pace. even if you want more or move on pace. even if you want more or move on pace. even if you want more or move on to honor your timeline even if it means to honor your timeline even if it means to honor your timeline even if it means losing them. losing them. losing them. >> I'm scared all my answers are going to >> I'm scared all my answers are going to >> I'm scared all my answers are going to be like communicate and find the middle be like communicate and find the middle be like communicate and find the middle ground. But I would say for sure be ground. But I would say for sure be ground. But I would say for sure be honest, be upfront, tell somebody what honest, be upfront, tell somebody what honest, be upfront, tell somebody what your timeline is, stand in your truth, your timeline is, stand in your truth, your timeline is, stand in your truth, be really authentic, and if somebody is be really authentic, and if somebody is be really authentic, and if somebody is unwilling to move and meet you parway, unwilling to move and meet you parway, unwilling to move and meet you parway, then you have to honor yourself and and then you have to honor yourself and and then you have to honor yourself and and keep it moving. And I often found I know keep it moving. And I often found I know keep it moving. And I often found I know these are probably supposed to be quick these are probably supposed to be quick these are probably supposed to be quick questions and um but I I have often questions and um but I I have often questions and um but I I have often found that people um who are anxious found that people um who are anxious found that people um who are anxious think, "Oh, I'll just slow down to win think, "Oh, I'll just slow down to win think, "Oh, I'll just slow down to win them over." Doesn't work like that. them over." Doesn't work like that. them over." Doesn't work like that. Never works like that. What you do is Never works like that. What you do is Never works like that. What you do is you honor your truth. You speak your you honor your truth. You speak your you honor your truth. You speak your needs. You stand in it and you let that needs. You stand in it and you let that needs. You stand in it and you let that person either grow and move towards or person either grow and move towards or person either grow and move towards or you don't. And usually if you're into you don't. And usually if you're into you don't. And usually if you're into people pleasing, it's the self- betrayal people pleasing, it's the self- betrayal people pleasing, it's the self- betrayal and then that feeds back into the and then that feeds back into the and then that feeds back into the subconscious comfort zone. It just never subconscious comfort zone. It just never subconscious comfort zone. It just never works that way. works that way. works that way. >> Absolutely. Okay, cool. Uh next one. >> Absolutely. Okay, cool. Uh next one. >> Absolutely. Okay, cool. Uh next one. Stay with someone who feels safe but Stay with someone who feels safe but Stay with someone who feels safe but doesn't excite you or choose someone who doesn't excite you or choose someone who doesn't excite you or choose someone who excites you but keeps you on edge. excites you but keeps you on edge. excites you but keeps you on edge. >> I would say stay with the person who >> I would say stay with the person who >> I would say stay with the person who feels safe because more green flags but feels safe because more green flags but feels safe because more green flags but then build things that create mutual then build things that create mutual then build things that create mutual excitement into your relationship. So excitement into your relationship. So excitement into your relationship. So it's actually one of the um ways it's a it's actually one of the um ways it's a it's actually one of the um ways it's a right of passage to get out of the right of passage to get out of the right of passage to get out of the rhythm stage and into the future stages rhythm stage and into the future stages rhythm stage and into the future stages of relationship is if you feel like of relationship is if you feel like of relationship is if you feel like there's a sense of safety but not enough there's a sense of safety but not enough there's a sense of safety but not enough excitement then you have to build excitement then you have to build excitement then you have to build novelty into the relationship novelty into the relationship novelty into the relationship spontaneity things that make you feel spontaneity things that make you feel spontaneity things that make you feel that sense of chemistry and connection. that sense of chemistry and connection. that sense of chemistry and connection. So safety is really healthy and good, So safety is really healthy and good, So safety is really healthy and good, but then build those things in that keep but then build those things in that keep but then build those things in that keep that that spark alive. that that spark alive. that that spark alive. >> It's easier to add excitement to a safe >> It's easier to add excitement to a safe >> It's easier to add excitement to a safe relationship than it is to build safety relationship than it is to build safety relationship than it is to build safety in an exciting relationship. in an exciting relationship. in an exciting relationship. >> It's beautifully, >> It's beautifully, >> It's beautifully, >> right? And it's like we we think that, >> right? And it's like we we think that, >> right? And it's like we we think that, oh, if something's exciting, oh, I can oh, if something's exciting, oh, I can oh, if something's exciting, oh, I can make this feel more safe. I can make make this feel more safe. I can make make this feel more safe. I can make this feel more secure. But that's a much this feel more secure. But that's a much this feel more secure. But that's a much harder thing to develop from that harder thing to develop from that harder thing to develop from that foundation than the other way around. foundation than the other way around. foundation than the other way around. >> 100%. And like caveat being that you >> 100%. And like caveat being that you >> 100%. And like caveat being that you have to actually feel attracted to the have to actually feel attracted to the have to actually feel attracted to the person. You have to like the person. person. You have to like the person. person. You have to like the person. >> I can see some people being like, "Oh, >> I can see some people being like, "Oh, >> I can see some people being like, "Oh, so I should stay with the person I'm not so I should stay with the person I'm not so I should stay with the person I'm not interested in." No way. But like the interested in." No way. But like the interested in." No way. But like the reality is exactly what you said. And reality is exactly what you said. And reality is exactly what you said. And sometimes the constantly on edge is for sometimes the constantly on edge is for sometimes the constantly on edge is for really painful reasons, especially if really painful reasons, especially if really painful reasons, especially if the other person's not going to be the other person's not going to be the other person's not going to be willing to do the work with you. willing to do the work with you. willing to do the work with you. >> Yeah. Okay. Next one. Build stability >> Yeah. Okay. Next one. Build stability >> Yeah. Okay. Next one. Build stability slowly with someone dependable or follow slowly with someone dependable or follow slowly with someone dependable or follow instant chemistry and risk the instant chemistry and risk the instant chemistry and risk the uncertainty. uncertainty. uncertainty. >> Build You know what? I'd actually almost >> Build You know what? I'd actually almost >> Build You know what? I'd actually almost go in reverse on that one. I would say go in reverse on that one. I would say go in reverse on that one. I would say follow the chemistry as long as you're follow the chemistry as long as you're follow the chemistry as long as you're going to do the work on it. Chemistry going to do the work on it. Chemistry going to do the work on it. Chemistry tells us a lot about ourselves. Those tells us a lot about ourselves. Those tells us a lot about ourselves. Those times where you get those really times where you get those really times where you get those really exciting like connections and that like exciting like connections and that like exciting like connections and that like oh my gosh that is always we have oh my gosh that is always we have oh my gosh that is always we have lirance or intense infatuation for three lirance or intense infatuation for three lirance or intense infatuation for three reasons. Number one, somebody's reasons. Number one, somebody's reasons. Number one, somebody's expressing your repressed traits like we expressing your repressed traits like we expressing your repressed traits like we talked about. Do that integration work. talked about. Do that integration work. talked about. Do that integration work. Number two, somebody's meeting your Number two, somebody's meeting your Number two, somebody's meeting your deeply unmet needs from childhood. deeply unmet needs from childhood. deeply unmet needs from childhood. That'll be the spark early and then That'll be the spark early and then That'll be the spark early and then it'll be the thing that pressures the it'll be the thing that pressures the it'll be the thing that pressures the relationship later. um because you're relationship later. um because you're relationship later. um because you're trying to just source from them. So do trying to just source from them. So do trying to just source from them. So do that work to really build those. It's that work to really build those. It's that work to really build those. It's it's sort of this key that unlocks all it's sort of this key that unlocks all it's sort of this key that unlocks all this awareness into yourself. And then this awareness into yourself. And then this awareness into yourself. And then the third thing is how somebody's, you the third thing is how somebody's, you the third thing is how somebody's, you know, treating you. If it's how you know, treating you. If it's how you know, treating you. If it's how you treat yourself, we got to work that out. treat yourself, we got to work that out. treat yourself, we got to work that out. So I would say follow the the So I would say follow the the So I would say follow the the excitement, but vet that somebody's excitement, but vet that somebody's excitement, but vet that somebody's going to do the work with you going to do the work with you going to do the work with you non-negotiably. non-negotiably. non-negotiably. >> Yes. Getting closure from yourself or >> Yes. Getting closure from yourself or >> Yes. Getting closure from yourself or closure from your ex after a breakup. closure from your ex after a breakup. closure from your ex after a breakup. >> From self through and through. Because >> From self through and through. Because >> From self through and through. Because what you're looking for is needs from what you're looking for is needs from what you're looking for is needs from that person who often can't supply them that person who often can't supply them that person who often can't supply them anyways. And closure when when people anyways. And closure when when people anyways. And closure when when people break down closure, closure, they're break down closure, closure, they're break down closure, closure, they're actually looking for certainty. Okay? actually looking for certainty. Okay? actually looking for certainty. Okay? Best way to get certainty is to question Best way to get certainty is to question Best way to get certainty is to question all of your stories that you're telling all of your stories that you're telling all of your stories that you're telling after the breakup. So, people want the after the breakup. So, people want the after the breakup. So, people want the certainty of their ex saying, "Oh, it certainty of their ex saying, "Oh, it certainty of their ex saying, "Oh, it wasn't all your fault. It was this and wasn't all your fault. It was this and wasn't all your fault. It was this and this and it was me." They want to hear this and it was me." They want to hear this and it was me." They want to hear all those details. You know what you're all those details. You know what you're all those details. You know what you're going to do is you're going to sit down going to do is you're going to sit down going to do is you're going to sit down and write all your stories on paper. It and write all your stories on paper. It and write all your stories on paper. It was all my fault. I wasn't good enough. was all my fault. I wasn't good enough. was all my fault. I wasn't good enough. I'm unlovable. You're going to put all I'm unlovable. You're going to put all I'm unlovable. You're going to put all those things and you're going to sit those things and you're going to sit those things and you're going to sit there and you're going to question them there and you're going to question them there and you're going to question them and you're going to say, "Really, I and you're going to say, "Really, I and you're going to say, "Really, I wasn't good enough? How was I good wasn't good enough? How was I good wasn't good enough? How was I good enough? How did I show up? I'm not enough? How did I show up? I'm not enough? How did I show up? I'm not lovable. How am I lovable?" And you're lovable. How am I lovable?" And you're lovable. How am I lovable?" And you're going to honor those things. And that's going to honor those things. And that's going to honor those things. And that's those things we're trying to get from those things we're trying to get from those things we're trying to get from your ex. Your neck, your ex is never your ex. Your neck, your ex is never your ex. Your neck, your ex is never going to give them to you the way that going to give them to you the way that going to give them to you the way that you need, but you can give them to you need, but you can give them to you need, but you can give them to yourself in that way. And that's healing yourself in that way. And that's healing yourself in that way. And that's healing and it's growth. And you have a sense of and it's growth. And you have a sense of and it's growth. And you have a sense of control over it in a healthy way. control over it in a healthy way. control over it in a healthy way. >> It's been incredible talking to you >> It's been incredible talking to you >> It's been incredible talking to you today. I feel like I've learned so much. today. I feel like I've learned so much. today. I feel like I've learned so much. I truly believe you've given me the I truly believe you've given me the I truly believe you've given me the book, the podcast, and the program to book, the podcast, and the program to book, the podcast, and the program to recommend to all of my friends that are recommend to all of my friends that are recommend to all of my friends that are struggling in love and dating and struggling in love and dating and struggling in love and dating and relationships right now because I don't relationships right now because I don't relationships right now because I don't think I've heard of a a stronger think I've heard of a a stronger think I've heard of a a stronger foundational way that people can foundational way that people can foundational way that people can actually engage and interact with each actually engage and interact with each actually engage and interact with each other. The framework carries so much other. The framework carries so much other. The framework carries so much gravitas, but the the way you've built gravitas, but the the way you've built gravitas, but the the way you've built the program to be so simple and specific the program to be so simple and specific the program to be so simple and specific feels so practical and tactical and easy feels so practical and tactical and easy feels so practical and tactical and easy to do for people. It's it's it's truly to do for people. It's it's it's truly to do for people. It's it's it's truly remarkable. Congratulations. Like it's remarkable. Congratulations. Like it's remarkable. Congratulations. Like it's it's really fulfilling hearing that I it's really fulfilling hearing that I it's really fulfilling hearing that I have something to give to people that I have something to give to people that I have something to give to people that I I you know that I want to help. Uh we I you know that I want to help. Uh we I you know that I want to help. Uh we end every OnPurpose episode with a final end every OnPurpose episode with a final end every OnPurpose episode with a final five. These questions have to be five. These questions have to be five. These questions have to be answered in one sentence maximum. So answered in one sentence maximum. So answered in one sentence maximum. So Terry Gibson, these are your final five. Terry Gibson, these are your final five. Terry Gibson, these are your final five. The first question is, what is the best The first question is, what is the best The first question is, what is the best love advice you've ever heard or love advice you've ever heard or love advice you've ever heard or received? received? received? >> To learn to be compassionate towards >> To learn to be compassionate towards >> To learn to be compassionate towards yourself and gentle towards yourself. yourself and gentle towards yourself. yourself and gentle towards yourself. Second question. What is the worst love Second question. What is the worst love Second question. What is the worst love advice you've ever heard or received? advice you've ever heard or received? advice you've ever heard or received? >> To try to change other people if they're >> To try to change other people if they're >> To try to change other people if they're not willing to do the work. not willing to do the work. not willing to do the work. >> Can you ever change someone? >> Can you ever change someone? >> Can you ever change someone? >> No. People can choose to change >> No. People can choose to change >> No. People can choose to change themselves, but you can only show up and themselves, but you can only show up and themselves, but you can only show up and lead by example and vet how somebody lead by example and vet how somebody lead by example and vet how somebody else responds. else responds. else responds. >> Question number three, I had a couple >> Question number three, I had a couple >> Question number three, I had a couple here actually that I really wanted to here actually that I really wanted to here actually that I really wanted to get to. So, question number three, get to. So, question number three, get to. So, question number three, what does the spark really mean in what does the spark really mean in what does the spark really mean in dating? dating? dating? The spark really means that somebody is The spark really means that somebody is The spark really means that somebody is the expression of your repressed traits, the expression of your repressed traits, the expression of your repressed traits, needing your deeply unmet needs, or needing your deeply unmet needs, or needing your deeply unmet needs, or mirroring back to you how you treat mirroring back to you how you treat mirroring back to you how you treat yourself. When people have extreme yourself. When people have extreme yourself. When people have extreme sparks, it's always that. sparks, it's always that. sparks, it's always that. >> Mhm. Good answer. Question number four. >> Mhm. Good answer. Question number four. >> Mhm. Good answer. Question number four. How do people unintentionally push away How do people unintentionally push away How do people unintentionally push away the love they want most? Because people the love they want most? Because people the love they want most? Because people end up trying to make somebody the end up trying to make somebody the end up trying to make somebody the person who's going to fill it all for person who's going to fill it all for person who's going to fill it all for them, complete them, do it all for them, them, complete them, do it all for them, them, complete them, do it all for them, when really we're supposed to do half when really we're supposed to do half when really we're supposed to do half that job for ourselves, too. Otherwise, that job for ourselves, too. Otherwise, that job for ourselves, too. Otherwise, we can't receive it properly from we can't receive it properly from we can't receive it properly from anybody and we to put too much pressure. anybody and we to put too much pressure. anybody and we to put too much pressure. >> And fifth and final question, we asked >> And fifth and final question, we asked >> And fifth and final question, we asked this to every guest who's ever been on this to every guest who's ever been on this to every guest who's ever been on the show. If you could create one law the show. If you could create one law the show. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to that everyone in the world had to that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? It would be follow, what would it be? It would be follow, what would it be? It would be for people to learn about their own for people to learn about their own for people to learn about their own subconscious conditioning and how to subconscious conditioning and how to subconscious conditioning and how to rewire it. Because unless we deal with rewire it. Because unless we deal with rewire it. Because unless we deal with things at the subconscious level, we'll things at the subconscious level, we'll things at the subconscious level, we'll always set intentions or say we're going always set intentions or say we're going always set intentions or say we're going to do things and then we'll often feel to do things and then we'll often feel to do things and then we'll often feel so defeated. It was a big part of what I so defeated. It was a big part of what I so defeated. It was a big part of what I went through trying to get sober went through trying to get sober went through trying to get sober originally like what the heck is going originally like what the heck is going originally like what the heck is going on? And I just I think that's the key on? And I just I think that's the key on? And I just I think that's the key that unlocks so much for people in a that unlocks so much for people in a that unlocks so much for people in a deep way. deep way. deep way. >> The book is called The New Attachment >> The book is called The New Attachment >> The book is called The New Attachment Theory: Heal Every Relationship by Theory: Heal Every Relationship by Theory: Heal Every Relationship by Rewiring Your Brain and Nervous System. Rewiring Your Brain and Nervous System. Rewiring Your Brain and Nervous System. Ta Gibson, if anyone wants to learn more Ta Gibson, if anyone wants to learn more Ta Gibson, if anyone wants to learn more about you, follow you, connect with your about you, follow you, connect with your about you, follow you, connect with your work, commit to the program, where work, commit to the program, where work, commit to the program, where should they go so that they don't miss should they go so that they don't miss should they go so that they don't miss out on doing this work? out on doing this work? out on doing this work? >> So, they can go to >> So, they can go to >> So, they can go to personaldevelopmentchool.com. personaldevelopmentchool.com. personaldevelopmentchool.com. Uh, we have these really in-depth Uh, we have these really in-depth Uh, we have these really in-depth reports people can get on their reports people can get on their reports people can get on their attachment cell and take our free quiz attachment cell and take our free quiz attachment cell and take our free quiz and it goes through all of your pillars and it goes through all of your pillars and it goes through all of your pillars and your whole profile. And then I am and your whole profile. And then I am and your whole profile. And then I am also um all of our programs are through also um all of our programs are through also um all of our programs are through there. And I'm also on YouTube, which is there. And I'm also on YouTube, which is there. And I'm also on YouTube, which is Tais Gibson-personal development school Tais Gibson-personal development school Tais Gibson-personal development school or at the personal development school on or at the personal development school on or at the personal development school on Instagram. And I just want to say thank Instagram. And I just want to say thank Instagram. And I just want to say thank you so much for having me. You're a you so much for having me. You're a you so much for having me. You're a phenomenal host. I just honestly felt so phenomenal host. I just honestly felt so phenomenal host. I just honestly felt so connected to to you and chatting and and connected to to you and chatting and and connected to to you and chatting and and um thank you for for bringing all this um thank you for for bringing all this um thank you for for bringing all this out of me and and letting me share. out of me and and letting me share. out of me and and letting me share. >> No, I I said this to earlier. Thank you >> No, I I said this to earlier. Thank you >> No, I I said this to earlier. Thank you for being a resource that I can direct for being a resource that I can direct for being a resource that I can direct uh people to who I I really feel this is uh people to who I I really feel this is uh people to who I I really feel this is such a foundational thing for the having such a foundational thing for the having such a foundational thing for the having a successful life like relationships, a successful life like relationships, a successful life like relationships, dating, work, it's everything. So T, dating, work, it's everything. So T, dating, work, it's everything. So T, thank you so much. It's been such a thank you so much. It's been such a thank you so much. It's been such a pleasure. pleasure. pleasure. >> Uh, and I'm excited to have you back on >> Uh, and I'm excited to have you back on >> Uh, and I'm excited to have you back on soon. soon. soon. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> If you enjoyed this conversation, you'll >> If you enjoyed this conversation, you'll >> If you enjoyed this conversation, you'll love my episode with the world's leading love my episode with the world's leading love my episode with the world's leading relationship therapist, Esther Pel, relationship therapist, Esther Pel, relationship therapist, Esther Pel, where we talk about why your ego is where we talk about why your ego is where we talk about why your ego is ruining your relationships and how to ruining your relationships and how to ruining your relationships and how to date more effectively. date more effectively. date more effectively. >> I think we need to differentiate. Are >> I think we need to differentiate. Are >> I think we need to differentiate. Are you looking for chemistry for a love you looking for chemistry for a love you looking for chemistry for a love story?