JAMES CAMERON: Why Titanic Was a HUGE Risk (and What Ended Up Happening…)

Do you remember the first character or Do you remember the first character or world that you ever imagined, even if it world that you ever imagined, even if it world that you ever imagined, even if it wasn't for a movie or a film or a idea, wasn't for a movie or a film or a idea, wasn't for a movie or a film or a idea, but just a world that you lived in when but just a world that you lived in when but just a world that you lived in when you were younger. you were younger. you were younger. >> Well, I was totally enamored as a kid >> Well, I was totally enamored as a kid >> Well, I was totally enamored as a kid with anything with anything with anything fantastic or science fiction, anything I fantastic or science fiction, anything I fantastic or science fiction, anything I saw on television that was fantasy and saw on television that was fantasy and saw on television that was fantasy and science fiction. But I remember one one science fiction. But I remember one one science fiction. But I remember one one sort I think there's a moment where sort I think there's a moment where sort I think there's a moment where something inspires you to to take your something inspires you to to take your something inspires you to to take your own action to do your own art and I own action to do your own art and I own action to do your own art and I remember and this may not have been the remember and this may not have been the remember and this may not have been the first but this is what pops to mind. So first but this is what pops to mind. So first but this is what pops to mind. So seeing mysterious island which was a Ray seeing mysterious island which was a Ray seeing mysterious island which was a Ray Harryhausen film I probably would have Harryhausen film I probably would have Harryhausen film I probably would have been seven or eight and coming home and been seven or eight and coming home and been seven or eight and coming home and wanting to do my own version of wanting to do my own version of wanting to do my own version of mysterious island. So I started to draw mysterious island. So I started to draw mysterious island. So I started to draw essentially a comic book and but it was essentially a comic book and but it was essentially a comic book and but it was my own story. The animals were my own story. The animals were my own story. The animals were different. They wound up cast away on a different. They wound up cast away on a different. They wound up cast away on a raft as opposed to in the movie it was a raft as opposed to in the movie it was a raft as opposed to in the movie it was a balloon and I just started telling my balloon and I just started telling my balloon and I just started telling my own story. So technically that would be own story. So technically that would be own story. So technically that would be the first case I can remember of world the first case I can remember of world the first case I can remember of world building inspired by something else but building inspired by something else but building inspired by something else but not copying that thing. And of course, not copying that thing. And of course, not copying that thing. And of course, Ray Harryhausen was always inspiring to Ray Harryhausen was always inspiring to Ray Harryhausen was always inspiring to me as a kid, you know. I mean, the me as a kid, you know. I mean, the me as a kid, you know. I mean, the technique that he used of stopotion technique that he used of stopotion technique that he used of stopotion animation is considered quite quaint animation is considered quite quaint animation is considered quite quaint now, you know, and and we can do things now, you know, and and we can do things now, you know, and and we can do things that are far more realistic, but at the that are far more realistic, but at the that are far more realistic, but at the time there was nothing like that terms time there was nothing like that terms time there was nothing like that terms of of his art, his craft. And it that of of his art, his craft. And it that of of his art, his craft. And it that blew my mind uh at the time. And you blew my mind uh at the time. And you blew my mind uh at the time. And you know, look, it doesn't take much to know, look, it doesn't take much to know, look, it doesn't take much to inspire. Kids are imaginative, you know, inspire. Kids are imaginative, you know, inspire. Kids are imaginative, you know, and and when you get something that and and when you get something that and and when you get something that impacts your imagination and and impacts your imagination and and impacts your imagination and and triggers it, and then you start to draw, triggers it, and then you start to draw, triggers it, and then you start to draw, all of a sudden, my hand's going, you all of a sudden, my hand's going, you all of a sudden, my hand's going, you know what I mean? I'm drawing. I'm I'm know what I mean? I'm drawing. I'm I'm know what I mean? I'm drawing. I'm I'm choosing colors. What What color do I choosing colors. What What color do I choosing colors. What What color do I want the giant turtle to be? I picked want the giant turtle to be? I picked want the giant turtle to be? I picked green. No big surprise there. green. No big surprise there. green. No big surprise there. >> Did you ever get to share that with the >> Did you ever get to share that with the >> Did you ever get to share that with the director or anyone in the cast? director or anyone in the cast? director or anyone in the cast? >> I did talk I talked to Ry uh later in >> I did talk I talked to Ry uh later in >> I did talk I talked to Ry uh later in his life. He was pretty retired. He his life. He was pretty retired. He his life. He was pretty retired. He hadn't he hadn't done any uh stop motion hadn't he hadn't done any uh stop motion hadn't he hadn't done any uh stop motion for some time. But you know, I shared for some time. But you know, I shared for some time. But you know, I shared with him some of these early stories and with him some of these early stories and with him some of these early stories and the impact he had on me and so many the impact he had on me and so many the impact he had on me and so many other filmmakers. He was absolutely the other filmmakers. He was absolutely the other filmmakers. He was absolutely the most fantastic of the fantasy filmmakers most fantastic of the fantasy filmmakers most fantastic of the fantasy filmmakers that were out there for many, many that were out there for many, many that were out there for many, many years. years. years. >> I can't imagine what that felt like to >> I can't imagine what that felt like to >> I can't imagine what that felt like to him to hear that something of his had him to hear that something of his had him to hear that something of his had inspired you to go on to see what you inspired you to go on to see what you inspired you to go on to see what you did. I think he was just kind of dazzled did. I think he was just kind of dazzled did. I think he was just kind of dazzled by where we where the next generation by where we where the next generation by where we where the next generation and the one after that had sort of taken and the one after that had sort of taken and the one after that had sort of taken it into CG and so on and things that he it into CG and so on and things that he it into CG and so on and things that he couldn't have imagined the technology, couldn't have imagined the technology, couldn't have imagined the technology, but he certainly could have imagined the but he certainly could have imagined the but he certainly could have imagined the design and the storytelling, you know, design and the storytelling, you know, design and the storytelling, you know, that were possible with those those new that were possible with those those new that were possible with those those new tools. tools. tools. >> Yeah. No, I think that's the power of >> Yeah. No, I think that's the power of >> Yeah. No, I think that's the power of art. As I'm listening to you, I'm art. As I'm listening to you, I'm art. As I'm listening to you, I'm thinking just how many young kids are thinking just how many young kids are thinking just how many young kids are going to go and watch Fire and Ash, and going to go and watch Fire and Ash, and going to go and watch Fire and Ash, and that becomes their version of that movie that becomes their version of that movie that becomes their version of that movie that then inspires them to go and bring that then inspires them to go and bring that then inspires them to go and bring their art into the world, whether it's their art into the world, whether it's their art into the world, whether it's film and TV or poetry or music or film and TV or poetry or music or film and TV or poetry or music or whatever it may be. And how how whatever it may be. And how how whatever it may be. And how how important it is because I he probably important it is because I he probably important it is because I he probably didn't imagine that, you know, James didn't imagine that, you know, James didn't imagine that, you know, James Cameron as a seven or eightyear-old was Cameron as a seven or eightyear-old was Cameron as a seven or eightyear-old was watching his film. Oh, how could he watching his film. Oh, how could he watching his film. Oh, how could he have, you know? I mean, he was just have, you know? I mean, he was just have, you know? I mean, he was just following his muse and and we all do, following his muse and and we all do, following his muse and and we all do, >> you know, but I I'd love to think that >> you know, but I I'd love to think that >> you know, but I I'd love to think that stuff that I've done has inspired stuff that I've done has inspired stuff that I've done has inspired inspired um you know, I I want to say inspired um you know, I I want to say inspired um you know, I I want to say kids, but you know, it could be anybody kids, but you know, it could be anybody kids, but you know, it could be anybody that wants to be an artist at at any that wants to be an artist at at any that wants to be an artist at at any age. And you know, I have this art show age. And you know, I have this art show age. And you know, I have this art show that's touring around in in Europe. It's that's touring around in in Europe. It's that's touring around in in Europe. It's in actually in Istanbul right now. And in actually in Istanbul right now. And in actually in Istanbul right now. And it's a lot of drawings that I did and it's a lot of drawings that I did and it's a lot of drawings that I did and paintings that I did when I was in high paintings that I did when I was in high paintings that I did when I was in high school and in college. I didn't know I school and in college. I didn't know I school and in college. I didn't know I was going to be a big shot filmmaker was going to be a big shot filmmaker was going to be a big shot filmmaker someday. You know, how could you someday. You know, how could you someday. You know, how could you possibly know that? You know, I was just possibly know that? You know, I was just possibly know that? You know, I was just the ideas in my head. I just had to draw the ideas in my head. I just had to draw the ideas in my head. I just had to draw them. I mean, I had to draw them. And I them. I mean, I had to draw them. And I them. I mean, I had to draw them. And I always say artists artists are the always say artists artists are the always say artists artists are the people that can't not draw or can't not people that can't not draw or can't not people that can't not draw or can't not create. It's like it's not like you create. It's like it's not like you create. It's like it's not like you force yourself to create. You have to force yourself to create. You have to force yourself to create. You have to force yourself not to, force yourself not to, force yourself not to, >> you know? And if it that's flowing from >> you know? And if it that's flowing from >> you know? And if it that's flowing from you, if it's flowing from your you, if it's flowing from your you, if it's flowing from your fingertips or if it's voice or if it's fingertips or if it's voice or if it's fingertips or if it's voice or if it's music or whatever it is, if if it's music or whatever it is, if if it's music or whatever it is, if if it's flowing from you and you can't stop it, flowing from you and you can't stop it, flowing from you and you can't stop it, guess what? You're stuck. You're an guess what? You're stuck. You're an guess what? You're stuck. You're an artist and artist and artist and >> you feel compelled. >> you feel compelled. >> you feel compelled. >> Yeah. Yeah. And and you don't question >> Yeah. Yeah. And and you don't question >> Yeah. Yeah. And and you don't question it. That's the crazy thing. At least I it. That's the crazy thing. At least I it. That's the crazy thing. At least I never did. You know, I' I'd sit on the never did. You know, I' I'd sit on the never did. You know, I' I'd sit on the the quad at at college and I'd just have the quad at at college and I'd just have the quad at at college and I'd just have my math notebook or whatever and I'd be my math notebook or whatever and I'd be my math notebook or whatever and I'd be sketching some girl sitting under a tree sketching some girl sitting under a tree sketching some girl sitting under a tree or some guy or my own hand or, you know, or some guy or my own hand or, you know, or some guy or my own hand or, you know, I mean, it was just always drawing. Uh, I mean, it was just always drawing. Uh, I mean, it was just always drawing. Uh, I couldn't imagine not drawing. I couldn't imagine not drawing. I couldn't imagine not drawing. >> Was Was there a part of you that felt >> Was Was there a part of you that felt >> Was Was there a part of you that felt out of place as a kid, but now that same out of place as a kid, but now that same out of place as a kid, but now that same skill is essential to who you are now, skill is essential to who you are now, skill is essential to who you are now, or did you always feel that you or did you always feel that you or did you always feel that you >> I think so. Yeah. Uh I mean look it can >> I think so. Yeah. Uh I mean look it can >> I think so. Yeah. Uh I mean look it can get very solitary the the creative act get very solitary the the creative act get very solitary the the creative act especially when you write because you especially when you write because you especially when you write because you really have to just you know isolate and really have to just you know isolate and really have to just you know isolate and you need to be in your own headsp space you need to be in your own headsp space you need to be in your own headsp space and be comfortable there for long and be comfortable there for long and be comfortable there for long periods of time. So it can be isolating. periods of time. So it can be isolating. periods of time. So it can be isolating. I I remember and and you know I mean our I I remember and and you know I mean our I I remember and and you know I mean our memory of our childhood is always memory of our childhood is always memory of our childhood is always tainted by the stories that we tell tainted by the stories that we tell tainted by the stories that we tell ourselves and we don't remember the ourselves and we don't remember the ourselves and we don't remember the event we remember the story. Yes. event we remember the story. Yes. event we remember the story. Yes. >> Right. Very true. >> Right. Very true. >> Right. Very true. >> Cuz memory is an interesting thing. We >> Cuz memory is an interesting thing. We >> Cuz memory is an interesting thing. We don't really, we're not video cameras. don't really, we're not video cameras. don't really, we're not video cameras. There isn't enough storage in this 3 12 There isn't enough storage in this 3 12 There isn't enough storage in this 3 12 lb meat computer to last a lifetime. It' lb meat computer to last a lifetime. It' lb meat computer to last a lifetime. It' be million pabytes of data and we just be million pabytes of data and we just be million pabytes of data and we just don't have room for that. Right? So, we don't have room for that. Right? So, we don't have room for that. Right? So, we don't remember the event like a don't remember the event like a don't remember the event like a videotape. We remember the story we tell videotape. We remember the story we tell videotape. We remember the story we tell ourselves. ourselves. ourselves. >> The story I tell myself is that I spent >> The story I tell myself is that I spent >> The story I tell myself is that I spent a lot of time on my own in my a lot of time on my own in my a lot of time on my own in my imagination in the woods connecting with imagination in the woods connecting with imagination in the woods connecting with nature, finding animals, finding bugs, nature, finding animals, finding bugs, nature, finding animals, finding bugs, collecting butterflies, tadpoles, collecting butterflies, tadpoles, collecting butterflies, tadpoles, whatever it was. a lot of time on my own whatever it was. a lot of time on my own whatever it was. a lot of time on my own drawing and just thinking and creating drawing and just thinking and creating drawing and just thinking and creating and a lot of time with other kids and a lot of time with other kids and a lot of time with other kids organizing and doing fun collective organizing and doing fun collective organizing and doing fun collective projects. You know, the one in the projects. You know, the one in the projects. You know, the one in the neighborhood that always said, "Hey neighborhood that always said, "Hey neighborhood that always said, "Hey guys, let's build a fort." You know, guys, let's build a fort." You know, guys, let's build a fort." You know, "Hey guys, let's build a go-kart. Hey "Hey guys, let's build a go-kart. Hey "Hey guys, let's build a go-kart. Hey guys, let's make an airplane out of wood guys, let's make an airplane out of wood guys, let's make an airplane out of wood and hang it from a tree and fly." And and hang it from a tree and fly." And and hang it from a tree and fly." And which we did until the rope broke and which we did until the rope broke and which we did until the rope broke and you know, it crashed. But you know so you know, it crashed. But you know so you know, it crashed. But you know so there was an alpha social component there was an alpha social component there was an alpha social component which is now critical but there was also which is now critical but there was also which is now critical but there was also a quiet creative and introspective a quiet creative and introspective a quiet creative and introspective component to it and I think it was if I component to it and I think it was if I component to it and I think it was if I look at my life now it's my comfort in look at my life now it's my comfort in look at my life now it's my comfort in both of those zones both of those zones both of those zones >> that allows me to do what I do because a >> that allows me to do what I do because a >> that allows me to do what I do because a lot of people are good writers are good lot of people are good writers are good lot of people are good writers are good creators good artists but they don't creators good artists but they don't creators good artists but they don't have the social organizational component have the social organizational component have the social organizational component to motivate people to do things you know to motivate people to do things you know to motivate people to do things you know and to leverage their creativity and so and to leverage their creativity and so and to leverage their creativity and so that's a big part of it that sort of that's a big part of it that sort of that's a big part of it that sort of alpha component if you will. alpha component if you will. alpha component if you will. >> Yeah, absolutely. It's it's fascinating >> Yeah, absolutely. It's it's fascinating >> Yeah, absolutely. It's it's fascinating because you hear about this passion in because you hear about this passion in because you hear about this passion in your childhood, the flow to draw and your childhood, the flow to draw and your childhood, the flow to draw and create and to be fascinated with nature create and to be fascinated with nature create and to be fascinated with nature and it almost makes sense but then you and it almost makes sense but then you and it almost makes sense but then you become a truck driver. And so walk me become a truck driver. And so walk me become a truck driver. And so walk me through that arc of your life because I through that arc of your life because I through that arc of your life because I feel so many people kind of up until 10 feel so many people kind of up until 10 feel so many people kind of up until 10 11 years old may even have these 11 years old may even have these 11 years old may even have these passions and dreams and ideas and passions and dreams and ideas and passions and dreams and ideas and creatives but then their life takes a creatives but then their life takes a creatives but then their life takes a different different different >> I never went to university per se. I >> I never went to university per se. I >> I never went to university per se. I went to the Fletcher and Junior College went to the Fletcher and Junior College went to the Fletcher and Junior College which is part of the junior college which is part of the junior college which is part of the junior college system. I was intensely curious. It was system. I was intensely curious. It was system. I was intensely curious. It was the first time in my life where I was the first time in my life where I was the first time in my life where I was surrounded by people who actually wanted surrounded by people who actually wanted surrounded by people who actually wanted to to be there you know as opposed to to to be there you know as opposed to to to be there you know as opposed to high school where people didn't want to high school where people didn't want to high school where people didn't want to be there. just had to be there and you be there. just had to be there and you be there. just had to be there and you know and and most of them sort of know and and most of them sort of know and and most of them sort of rejected the learning process. I was rejected the learning process. I was rejected the learning process. I was always hungry to learn not necessarily always hungry to learn not necessarily always hungry to learn not necessarily what they were what they were teaching what they were what they were teaching what they were what they were teaching but but you know lots of new things. I but but you know lots of new things. I but but you know lots of new things. I got to college and I was surrounded by got to college and I was surrounded by got to college and I was surrounded by people that actually wanted to be there people that actually wanted to be there people that actually wanted to be there uh and wanted to learn and and there was uh and wanted to learn and and there was uh and wanted to learn and and there was people were having arguments about people were having arguments about people were having arguments about philosophy and and and English and philosophy and and and English and philosophy and and and English and storytelling and and art and it was very storytelling and and art and it was very storytelling and and art and it was very exciting but it was unsustainable for exciting but it was unsustainable for exciting but it was unsustainable for me. I couldn't afford to do it me. I couldn't afford to do it me. I couldn't afford to do it continuously or or endlessly. And um so continuously or or endlessly. And um so continuously or or endlessly. And um so I had to work and I worked various jobs, I had to work and I worked various jobs, I had to work and I worked various jobs, all blue collar jobs, right? And I all blue collar jobs, right? And I all blue collar jobs, right? And I didn't mind working. I didn't mind just didn't mind working. I didn't mind just didn't mind working. I didn't mind just sort of being, you know, and I I got sort of being, you know, and I I got sort of being, you know, and I I got married at a very early age. I had a married at a very early age. I had a married at a very early age. I had a little a little pink house with a white little a little pink house with a white little a little pink house with a white picket fence and a dog, you know, and it picket fence and a dog, you know, and it picket fence and a dog, you know, and it was kind of, you know, kind of was kind of, you know, kind of was kind of, you know, kind of comforting. I was very very limited and comforting. I was very very limited and comforting. I was very very limited and and simple but at the same time in my and simple but at the same time in my and simple but at the same time in my after hours as a truck driver cuz it was after hours as a truck driver cuz it was after hours as a truck driver cuz it was a you know 9 to 5 or an 8 to 5 job I was a you know 9 to 5 or an 8 to 5 job I was a you know 9 to 5 or an 8 to 5 job I was painting I was drawing I was painting I was drawing I was painting I was drawing I was storytelling for myself my wife didn't storytelling for myself my wife didn't storytelling for myself my wife didn't understand that she was a waitress and understand that she was a waitress and understand that she was a waitress and she she liked the me that was social and she she liked the me that was social and she she liked the me that was social and with her but not the me that was off you with her but not the me that was off you with her but not the me that was off you know creating all these these worlds and know creating all these these worlds and know creating all these these worlds and so I was still trying to reconcile you so I was still trying to reconcile you so I was still trying to reconcile you know that kind of social facing versus know that kind of social facing versus know that kind of social facing versus the you know uh landscape of my own the you know uh landscape of my own the you know uh landscape of my own imagination But I've always been imagination But I've always been imagination But I've always been comfortable in my own head that way. Uh comfortable in my own head that way. Uh comfortable in my own head that way. Uh dreams are a big part of it. Dreams are dreams are a big part of it. Dreams are dreams are a big part of it. Dreams are a big part of my creativity. Source of a big part of my creativity. Source of a big part of my creativity. Source of imagery, source of little um bits and imagery, source of little um bits and imagery, source of little um bits and pieces of narrative, you know, because pieces of narrative, you know, because pieces of narrative, you know, because it could be quite chaotic and jumbled, it could be quite chaotic and jumbled, it could be quite chaotic and jumbled, but still within that there could be but still within that there could be but still within that there could be some interesting ideas and uh so I I some interesting ideas and uh so I I some interesting ideas and uh so I I think it was all just building up think it was all just building up think it was all just building up building up a pressure to the point building up a pressure to the point building up a pressure to the point where I had to do something about it. where I had to do something about it. where I had to do something about it. Um, and that was in my my mid20s. Um, and that was in my my mid20s. Um, and that was in my my mid20s. >> And so I was kind of a late starter. I >> And so I was kind of a late starter. I >> And so I was kind of a late starter. I never went to film school. You know, my never went to film school. You know, my never went to film school. You know, my film school was the drive-in movie film school was the drive-in movie film school was the drive-in movie theaters of Orange County, you know, so theaters of Orange County, you know, so theaters of Orange County, you know, so no formal training in film aesthetics or no formal training in film aesthetics or no formal training in film aesthetics or or film history or or any of that stuff. or film history or or any of that stuff. or film history or or any of that stuff. But it was just kind of building up that But it was just kind of building up that But it was just kind of building up that all right, you know, it's that urge to all right, you know, it's that urge to all right, you know, it's that urge to when you can't not draw, when you start when you can't not draw, when you start when you can't not draw, when you start thinking filmically and in terms of thinking filmically and in terms of thinking filmically and in terms of storytelling, it's like, well, you can't storytelling, it's like, well, you can't storytelling, it's like, well, you can't not tell a story. you've got to tell not tell a story. you've got to tell not tell a story. you've got to tell somebody the damn story, somebody the damn story, somebody the damn story, >> you know. And I think anybody out there >> you know. And I think anybody out there >> you know. And I think anybody out there that that hears this that feels that that that hears this that feels that that that hears this that feels that way, you're stuck. You don't have a way, you're stuck. You don't have a way, you're stuck. You don't have a choice. You're probably going to be a choice. You're probably going to be a choice. You're probably going to be a filmmaker or a writer or whatever it is, filmmaker or a writer or whatever it is, filmmaker or a writer or whatever it is, you know, just accept it. You know, you you know, just accept it. You know, you you know, just accept it. You know, you might never be rich because, you know, might never be rich because, you know, might never be rich because, you know, it's it's a difficult task and and uh it's it's a difficult task and and uh it's it's a difficult task and and uh there's a lot of luck, I think, involved there's a lot of luck, I think, involved there's a lot of luck, I think, involved in getting to be a a successful in getting to be a a successful in getting to be a a successful storyteller, but um I just followed it. storyteller, but um I just followed it. storyteller, but um I just followed it. I didn't I didn't question it, you know. I didn't I didn't question it, you know. I didn't I didn't question it, you know. I just quit my job one day. No ranker. I just quit my job one day. No ranker. I just quit my job one day. No ranker. Just guys, I got stuff to do. I'll see Just guys, I got stuff to do. I'll see Just guys, I got stuff to do. I'll see you to my other the other drivers and you to my other the other drivers and you to my other the other drivers and they're like, "What? Where are you they're like, "What? Where are you they're like, "What? Where are you going?" going?" going?" >> You know, it I mean, it feels like a >> You know, it I mean, it feels like a >> You know, it I mean, it feels like a bold step looking back because without bold step looking back because without bold step looking back because without film school, without having made a film, film school, without having made a film, film school, without having made a film, >> without any of that background to watch >> without any of that background to watch >> without any of that background to watch Star Wars, I believe in 1977, Star Wars, I believe in 1977, Star Wars, I believe in 1977, >> and for you to then go, >> and for you to then go, >> and for you to then go, >> I need to go and become a filmmaker even >> I need to go and become a filmmaker even >> I need to go and become a filmmaker even though you love drawing. And it it feels though you love drawing. And it it feels though you love drawing. And it it feels like a bold step. And I think about all like a bold step. And I think about all like a bold step. And I think about all of our listeners in our community who of our listeners in our community who of our listeners in our community who >> are all thinking something similar. I >> are all thinking something similar. I >> are all thinking something similar. I think a lot of people in my generation think a lot of people in my generation think a lot of people in my generation and the generations after me studied and the generations after me studied and the generations after me studied something at school that wasn't the something at school that wasn't the something at school that wasn't the thing they wanted to be. They have a thing they wanted to be. They have a thing they wanted to be. They have a dream inside of them. They have a story dream inside of them. They have a story dream inside of them. They have a story >> and they feel a pull, but they're scared >> and they feel a pull, but they're scared >> and they feel a pull, but they're scared to take that final step. to take that final step. to take that final step. >> What gave you that conviction? Did was >> What gave you that conviction? Did was >> What gave you that conviction? Did was it conviction or what was it? Was it it conviction or what was it? Was it it conviction or what was it? Was it >> I think it was a conviction. Star Wars >> I think it was a conviction. Star Wars >> I think it was a conviction. Star Wars helped. And I've talked to George Lucas helped. And I've talked to George Lucas helped. And I've talked to George Lucas about this. I said I there untold people about this. I said I there untold people about this. I said I there untold people that that you've inspired, George, but that that you've inspired, George, but that that you've inspired, George, but I'm one of them because but in a way I I'm one of them because but in a way I I'm one of them because but in a way I don't I don't think he was quite wanted don't I don't think he was quite wanted don't I don't think he was quite wanted the answer that I that I gave, which was the answer that I that I gave, which was the answer that I that I gave, which was I was already seeing all that stuff in I was already seeing all that stuff in I was already seeing all that stuff in my head. And when I saw Star Wars, I my head. And when I saw Star Wars, I my head. And when I saw Star Wars, I thought if that could be the highest thought if that could be the highest thought if that could be the highest grossing film in history, then the stuff grossing film in history, then the stuff grossing film in history, then the stuff that I'm seeing in my mind when I listen that I'm seeing in my mind when I listen that I'm seeing in my mind when I listen to fast electronic music and imagine to fast electronic music and imagine to fast electronic music and imagine space battles and all this crazy stuff, space battles and all this crazy stuff, space battles and all this crazy stuff, it's like I should be doing that. You it's like I should be doing that. You it's like I should be doing that. You know, there will be there will be a know, there will be there will be a know, there will be there will be a market for it. There's a market for my market for it. There's a market for my market for it. There's a market for my imagination. And that's maybe the imagination. And that's maybe the imagination. And that's maybe the boldest step is the step you take boldest step is the step you take boldest step is the step you take internally, internally, internally, >> you know, where you give yourself >> you know, where you give yourself >> you know, where you give yourself permission to at least go try it, you permission to at least go try it, you permission to at least go try it, you know, and and you and when you make that know, and and you and when you make that know, and and you and when you make that commitment, you have to go in commitment, you have to go in commitment, you have to go in wholeheartedly. You can't say, "Okay, wholeheartedly. You can't say, "Okay, wholeheartedly. You can't say, "Okay, I'm going to be a filmmaker part-time, I'm going to be a filmmaker part-time, I'm going to be a filmmaker part-time, but I'm going to sort of keep a foot in but I'm going to sort of keep a foot in but I'm going to sort of keep a foot in like medical school." It's not going to like medical school." It's not going to like medical school." It's not going to work. You got to go. You just got to work. You got to go. You just got to work. You got to go. You just got to jump out of the plane and and and hope jump out of the plane and and and hope jump out of the plane and and and hope you're wearing a parachute. Um, you you're wearing a parachute. Um, you you're wearing a parachute. Um, you know, so I always tell people that know, so I always tell people that know, so I always tell people that opportunities come along and they're opportunities come along and they're opportunities come along and they're fleeting and that door will open for a fleeting and that door will open for a fleeting and that door will open for a moment and then it'll slide closed and moment and then it'll slide closed and moment and then it'll slide closed and and you got to be fortune favors the and you got to be fortune favors the and you got to be fortune favors the prepared mind. If it's really something prepared mind. If it's really something prepared mind. If it's really something you love, read as much as you can. you love, read as much as you can. you love, read as much as you can. Prepare your mind ahead of time. Be Prepare your mind ahead of time. Be Prepare your mind ahead of time. Be ready because when that door opens, but ready because when that door opens, but ready because when that door opens, but the critical thing is to understand it's the critical thing is to understand it's the critical thing is to understand it's not an example of an opportunity. not an example of an opportunity. not an example of an opportunity. >> It is the opportunity. You either take >> It is the opportunity. You either take >> It is the opportunity. You either take it or you don't. You don't use it as a it or you don't. You don't use it as a it or you don't. You don't use it as a as a time to think about well when the as a time to think about well when the as a time to think about well when the next one comes along I may or may not next one comes along I may or may not next one comes along I may or may not you know what I mean that's not how it you know what I mean that's not how it you know what I mean that's not how it works. You go you launch you know and works. You go you launch you know and works. You go you launch you know and that opportunity for me was that a guy that opportunity for me was that a guy that opportunity for me was that a guy that I was working with on learning to that I was working with on learning to that I was working with on learning to sculpt and make molds who was a little sculpt and make molds who was a little sculpt and make molds who was a little bit ahead of me in the sort of fan curve bit ahead of me in the sort of fan curve bit ahead of me in the sort of fan curve of actually knowing how to do rubber of actually knowing how to do rubber of actually knowing how to do rubber armatures for stop motion and I was armatures for stop motion and I was armatures for stop motion and I was pretty fascinated by that. his sister pretty fascinated by that. his sister pretty fascinated by that. his sister was dating a guy who was a carpenter on was dating a guy who was a carpenter on was dating a guy who was a carpenter on a super lowbudget Roger Corman science a super lowbudget Roger Corman science a super lowbudget Roger Corman science fiction film and and I just said, fiction film and and I just said, fiction film and and I just said, "Introduce us." And so she talked to "Introduce us." And so she talked to "Introduce us." And so she talked to him, he talked to them. We got an him, he talked to them. We got an him, he talked to them. We got an appointment and we went in and showed appointment and we went in and showed appointment and we went in and showed our little models and our little things our little models and our little things our little models and our little things that we had and I had this film that I that we had and I had this film that I that we had and I had this film that I had made with some friends and we both had made with some friends and we both had made with some friends and we both got jobs on a Roger Corman film and we got jobs on a Roger Corman film and we got jobs on a Roger Corman film and we thought we'd died and gone to heaven cuz thought we'd died and gone to heaven cuz thought we'd died and gone to heaven cuz now we were getting a paycheck on a real now we were getting a paycheck on a real now we were getting a paycheck on a real movie. No, it was a total piece of crap movie. No, it was a total piece of crap movie. No, it was a total piece of crap movie. It was a little tiny movie, you movie. It was a little tiny movie, you movie. It was a little tiny movie, you know. It was actually the biggest movie know. It was actually the biggest movie know. It was actually the biggest movie Roger Corman had ever had ever made. It Roger Corman had ever had ever made. It Roger Corman had ever had ever made. It was like a million dollars or something was like a million dollars or something was like a million dollars or something like that which was huge for him. He like that which was huge for him. He like that which was huge for him. He usually made movies for like $200,000. usually made movies for like $200,000. usually made movies for like $200,000. >> But um and then all of a sudden I'm on a >> But um and then all of a sudden I'm on a >> But um and then all of a sudden I'm on a movie movie movie >> and then the rest just sort of made >> and then the rest just sort of made >> and then the rest just sort of made sense after that. It's it's that sense after that. It's it's that sense after that. It's it's that prepared mind thing, you know. I had prepared mind thing, you know. I had prepared mind thing, you know. I had read everything I could possibly read. I read everything I could possibly read. I read everything I could possibly read. I had I had schooled myself on how visual had I had schooled myself on how visual had I had schooled myself on how visual effects were done. All for no money. All effects were done. All for no money. All effects were done. All for no money. All not at university. Just u just you know not at university. Just u just you know not at university. Just u just you know over the that sort of two or three years over the that sort of two or three years over the that sort of two or three years that I was driving trucks and working that I was driving trucks and working that I was driving trucks and working blue collar jobs. So, I guess in the blue collar jobs. So, I guess in the blue collar jobs. So, I guess in the back of my mind, I must have thought, back of my mind, I must have thought, back of my mind, I must have thought, I'm going to do this for real at some I'm going to do this for real at some I'm going to do this for real at some point point point >> cuz I was clearly preparing myself. But >> cuz I was clearly preparing myself. But >> cuz I was clearly preparing myself. But I had no entree. I had no entree. I had no entree. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I didn't know anybody that knew anybody >> I didn't know anybody that knew anybody >> I didn't know anybody that knew anybody that knew anybody that worked on a film. that knew anybody that worked on a film. that knew anybody that worked on a film. Even though I was in Orange County, it's Even though I was in Orange County, it's Even though I was in Orange County, it's not that far from here, not that far not that far from here, not that far not that far from here, not that far from the center of the film industry, from the center of the film industry, from the center of the film industry, but it might as well have been Montana, but it might as well have been Montana, but it might as well have been Montana, you know, at that time. Certainly. you know, at that time. Certainly. you know, at that time. Certainly. >> Yeah. Did you do you record your dreams? >> Yeah. Did you do you record your dreams? >> Yeah. Did you do you record your dreams? How do you note them down? How do you How do you note them down? How do you How do you note them down? How do you capture them? capture them? capture them? >> Yeah. Sometimes I'll wake up and I'll >> Yeah. Sometimes I'll wake up and I'll >> Yeah. Sometimes I'll wake up and I'll just write it down, you know, or I'll just write it down, you know, or I'll just write it down, you know, or I'll I'll I'll type it out on my laptop, I'll I'll type it out on my laptop, I'll I'll type it out on my laptop, whatever. whatever. whatever. >> How long have you recorded them for? >> How long have you recorded them for? >> How long have you recorded them for? Like when did you start? Like when did you start? Like when did you start? >> It's sporadic. I mean, you know, I mean, >> It's sporadic. I mean, you know, I mean, >> It's sporadic. I mean, you know, I mean, it's a constant sort of streaming it's a constant sort of streaming it's a constant sort of streaming channel that's running all the time, and channel that's running all the time, and channel that's running all the time, and I they're not all necessarily worthy of, I they're not all necessarily worthy of, I they're not all necessarily worthy of, but every once in a while, I'll get a but every once in a while, I'll get a but every once in a while, I'll get a corker. It's like, oh man, I got to corker. It's like, oh man, I got to corker. It's like, oh man, I got to write this one down. You won't believe write this one down. You won't believe write this one down. You won't believe this. this. this. >> Did you ever follow the curiosity of >> Did you ever follow the curiosity of >> Did you ever follow the curiosity of where they come from or how they where they come from or how they where they come from or how they originate or, originate or, originate or, >> you know, >> you know, >> you know, >> what have you where have you found where >> what have you where have you found where >> what have you where have you found where do you think you get them from? I look, do you think you get them from? I look, do you think you get them from? I look, I've I've read a lot on the theories of I've I've read a lot on the theories of I've I've read a lot on the theories of consciousness and and dreams and what consciousness and and dreams and what consciousness and and dreams and what purpose they serve and and uh there are purpose they serve and and uh there are purpose they serve and and uh there are some researchers that think they have some researchers that think they have some researchers that think they have deep psychological meaning and others deep psychological meaning and others deep psychological meaning and others that think they're really just the brain that think they're really just the brain that think they're really just the brain just kind of uh resetting itself and and just kind of uh resetting itself and and just kind of uh resetting itself and and reshuffleling memory and and you know reshuffleling memory and and you know reshuffleling memory and and you know kind of cleaning house and it doesn't kind of cleaning house and it doesn't kind of cleaning house and it doesn't really have any meaning. I happen to really have any meaning. I happen to really have any meaning. I happen to think that they have they have meaning think that they have they have meaning think that they have they have meaning to you. Now, my wife Susie believes that to you. Now, my wife Susie believes that to you. Now, my wife Susie believes that she has and and I I believe she's right, she has and and I I believe she's right, she has and and I I believe she's right, has received promontory dreams um about has received promontory dreams um about has received promontory dreams um about events in her life, and she's documented events in her life, and she's documented events in her life, and she's documented this in a way that I find quite this in a way that I find quite this in a way that I find quite compelling. I'm not 100% convinced. compelling. I'm not 100% convinced. compelling. I'm not 100% convinced. Sorry, baby. Uh if you're listening, not Sorry, baby. Uh if you're listening, not Sorry, baby. Uh if you're listening, not 100% convinced, but she's given me 100% convinced, but she's given me 100% convinced, but she's given me evidence that gives me pause. evidence that gives me pause. evidence that gives me pause. >> And I'm a pretty hardcore empiricist. >> And I'm a pretty hardcore empiricist. >> And I'm a pretty hardcore empiricist. I'm not a mystic. I don't I don't follow I'm not a mystic. I don't I don't follow I'm not a mystic. I don't I don't follow all of the the the various winds of the all of the the the various winds of the all of the the the various winds of the uh spirituality fads and things like uh spirituality fads and things like uh spirituality fads and things like that. That's not how I roll. I'm very that. That's not how I roll. I'm very that. That's not how I roll. I'm very scienceoriented. You got to show me. You scienceoriented. You got to show me. You scienceoriented. You got to show me. You got to prove it. It's got to be peer got to prove it. It's got to be peer got to prove it. It's got to be peer reviewed, you know, and that sort of reviewed, you know, and that sort of reviewed, you know, and that sort of thing. It's got to be the subject of thing. It's got to be the subject of thing. It's got to be the subject of double blind studies and it's got to be double blind studies and it's got to be double blind studies and it's got to be falsifiable and all the, you know, falsifiable and all the, you know, falsifiable and all the, you know, empirical stuff. But I've seen some empirical stuff. But I've seen some empirical stuff. But I've seen some things I don't I can't explain. and things I don't I can't explain. and things I don't I can't explain. and she's demonstrated some things to me she's demonstrated some things to me she's demonstrated some things to me that can't be explained. that can't be explained. that can't be explained. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> By my know my understanding of science, >> By my know my understanding of science, >> By my know my understanding of science, you know, I mean, I'm not a scientist, you know, I mean, I'm not a scientist, you know, I mean, I'm not a scientist, but I did study physics. I studied but I did study physics. I studied but I did study physics. I studied astronomy, and I I keep pretty current astronomy, and I I keep pretty current astronomy, and I I keep pretty current in the sciences. So, there's clearly in the sciences. So, there's clearly in the sciences. So, there's clearly stuff out there that's not well stuff out there that's not well stuff out there that's not well explained or explained at all right now. explained or explained at all right now. explained or explained at all right now. Doesn't mean it won't be someday using Doesn't mean it won't be someday using Doesn't mean it won't be someday using empirical methodology. I don't know empirical methodology. I don't know empirical methodology. I don't know quite how I got off on that, but we were quite how I got off on that, but we were quite how I got off on that, but we were talking about dreams and dreams are not talking about dreams and dreams are not talking about dreams and dreams are not well understood well understood well understood >> um even by neuroscientists and so on. >> um even by neuroscientists and so on. >> um even by neuroscientists and so on. What what is what is the brain doing, What what is what is the brain doing, What what is what is the brain doing, you know? Um I personally think that you know? Um I personally think that you know? Um I personally think that that we're kind of we're like um large that we're kind of we're like um large that we're kind of we're like um large language models, you know. So all the language models, you know. So all the language models, you know. So all the training data of our life, it just goes training data of our life, it just goes training data of our life, it just goes into a kind of diffusion state, which is into a kind of diffusion state, which is into a kind of diffusion state, which is how generative AI works. it goes into a how generative AI works. it goes into a how generative AI works. it goes into a kind of a very noisy state and then out kind of a very noisy state and then out kind of a very noisy state and then out of that coaleses new things and I think of that coaleses new things and I think of that coaleses new things and I think the brain is just constantly creating in the brain is just constantly creating in the brain is just constantly creating in the way that a generative AI works and the way that a generative AI works and the way that a generative AI works and but who's creating it and who is it but who's creating it and who is it but who's creating it and who is it being created for being created for being created for >> so you're simultaneously the creator and >> so you're simultaneously the creator and >> so you're simultaneously the creator and the watcher which is kind of amazing the watcher which is kind of amazing the watcher which is kind of amazing >> I'm creating a simulated experience for >> I'm creating a simulated experience for >> I'm creating a simulated experience for myself one part of my brain is and myself one part of my brain is and myself one part of my brain is and another part of my brain let's call it another part of my brain let's call it another part of my brain let's call it the ego locus or whatever ever the the the ego locus or whatever ever the the the ego locus or whatever ever the the the person taking the ride, the kid the the person taking the ride, the kid the the person taking the ride, the kid the the kid in the roller coaster is going the kid in the roller coaster is going the kid in the roller coaster is going on the ride, which is kind of the film on the ride, which is kind of the film on the ride, which is kind of the film making process. making process. making process. >> That's fascinating >> That's fascinating >> That's fascinating >> because I'm making a story. I'm making >> because I'm making a story. I'm making >> because I'm making a story. I'm making up a story for my kind of simulation of up a story for my kind of simulation of up a story for my kind of simulation of the audience mind, the group mind, the audience mind, the group mind, the audience mind, the group mind, >> right? So part of my brain is making up >> right? So part of my brain is making up >> right? So part of my brain is making up a story for another part of my brain. a story for another part of my brain. a story for another part of my brain. that part of my brain is sitting in a that part of my brain is sitting in a that part of my brain is sitting in a movie theater with hundreds of other movie theater with hundreds of other movie theater with hundreds of other people and receiving it and judging it people and receiving it and judging it people and receiving it and judging it like, "Okay, this is cool. I like that." like, "Okay, this is cool. I like that." like, "Okay, this is cool. I like that." You know, and you know, you try to drill You know, and you know, you try to drill You know, and you know, you try to drill down on the creative process. I'm a down on the creative process. I'm a down on the creative process. I'm a writer. I'm sitting there. I'm looking writer. I'm sitting there. I'm looking writer. I'm sitting there. I'm looking at a blank screen. Where do you start? at a blank screen. Where do you start? at a blank screen. Where do you start? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know, um, and a lot of writers do it >> You know, um, and a lot of writers do it >> You know, um, and a lot of writers do it in very different ways. Some start, you in very different ways. Some start, you in very different ways. Some start, you know, page one, you know, Bob walks down know, page one, you know, Bob walks down know, page one, you know, Bob walks down the street, you know, and then it just the street, you know, and then it just the street, you know, and then it just goes from there in a linear fashion. For goes from there in a linear fashion. For goes from there in a linear fashion. For me it coaleses probably almost in a me it coaleses probably almost in a me it coaleses probably almost in a diffusion model kind of way. I start diffusion model kind of way. I start diffusion model kind of way. I start writing notes and little images come to writing notes and little images come to writing notes and little images come to me and I start putting the notes me and I start putting the notes me and I start putting the notes together and for the Avatar sequels for together and for the Avatar sequels for together and for the Avatar sequels for example example example um I wrote over a thousand pages of um I wrote over a thousand pages of um I wrote over a thousand pages of notes just little fragments. Oh, notes just little fragments. Oh, notes just little fragments. Oh, >> dreams and images. >> dreams and images. >> dreams and images. >> And sometimes dreams play a part in that >> And sometimes dreams play a part in that >> And sometimes dreams play a part in that and sometimes just the daydreaming and sometimes just the daydreaming and sometimes just the daydreaming process that that creative engine process that that creative engine process that that creative engine because I think that same creative because I think that same creative because I think that same creative engine that runs at night out of control engine that runs at night out of control engine that runs at night out of control nonlinear chaotic nonlinear chaotic nonlinear chaotic montage style is actually more montage style is actually more montage style is actually more functional during the day and can be functional during the day and can be functional during the day and can be kind of directed to stay on a topic and kind of directed to stay on a topic and kind of directed to stay on a topic and follow it through. um you know so maybe follow it through. um you know so maybe follow it through. um you know so maybe I'll be thinking about a character and I'll be thinking about a character and I'll be thinking about a character and then something will pop into my mind you then something will pop into my mind you then something will pop into my mind you know and then I'll start writing about know and then I'll start writing about know and then I'll start writing about that and it does I'm not trying to tell that and it does I'm not trying to tell that and it does I'm not trying to tell a linear narrative at that point you a linear narrative at that point you a linear narrative at that point you know I'll and it becomes a bit of a know I'll and it becomes a bit of a know I'll and it becomes a bit of a dialogue so I I remember the time I was dialogue so I I remember the time I was dialogue so I I remember the time I was sitting there in my writing office and I sitting there in my writing office and I sitting there in my writing office and I said well what if there was a kid that said well what if there was a kid that said well what if there was a kid that was you know a kid that was born on the was you know a kid that was born on the was you know a kid that was born on the base and what if he was out in the the base and what if he was out in the the base and what if he was out in the the forest with his Na'vi little kid friends forest with his Na'vi little kid friends forest with his Na'vi little kid friends and his mask got messed up And you know, and his mask got messed up And you know, and his mask got messed up And you know, they had to save him. He was running out they had to save him. He was running out they had to save him. He was running out of running out of air and it became a of running out of air and it became a of running out of air and it became a whole thing. And so I imagined this whole thing. And so I imagined this whole thing. And so I imagined this whole thing about a race against time to whole thing about a race against time to whole thing about a race against time to get him get him back to the base. And I get him get him back to the base. And I get him get him back to the base. And I thought, okay, that's a pretty good thought, okay, that's a pretty good thought, okay, that's a pretty good story. Now, what if what if that kid was story. Now, what if what if that kid was story. Now, what if what if that kid was Cor's son? Cor's son? Cor's son? >> And then I wrote literally wrote, "Nah, >> And then I wrote literally wrote, "Nah, >> And then I wrote literally wrote, "Nah, nobody would believe that, you know." nobody would believe that, you know." nobody would believe that, you know." And then I'm going on writing more notes And then I'm going on writing more notes And then I'm going on writing more notes and about three or four pages later, and about three or four pages later, and about three or four pages later, it's like, "Yeah, but wait a minute, it it's like, "Yeah, but wait a minute, it it's like, "Yeah, but wait a minute, it would be really cool." would be really cool." would be really cool." >> Yeah. you know, and then I just started >> Yeah. you know, and then I just started >> Yeah. you know, and then I just started to riff on that and then it became, all to riff on that and then it became, all to riff on that and then it became, all right, well, what if he was Cor's son right, well, what if he was Cor's son right, well, what if he was Cor's son and the human dies in the first film, and the human dies in the first film, and the human dies in the first film, now he's orphaned. His mother maybe dies now he's orphaned. His mother maybe dies now he's orphaned. His mother maybe dies as well if she was part of the military as well if she was part of the military as well if she was part of the military group that, you know, Jake was opposed group that, you know, Jake was opposed group that, you know, Jake was opposed to to to >> and now he's an orphan and he's he's >> and now he's an orphan and he's he's >> and now he's an orphan and he's he's being raised on Pandora and he's got being raised on Pandora and he's got being raised on Pandora and he's got Na'vi friends. What if his Na'vi friends Na'vi friends. What if his Na'vi friends Na'vi friends. What if his Na'vi friends were Jake's kids? were Jake's kids? were Jake's kids? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> What if what if what if what if what if? >> What if what if what if what if what if? >> What if what if what if what if what if? Right. That's how the writing process Right. That's how the writing process Right. That's how the writing process works. And then it just and then all of works. And then it just and then all of works. And then it just and then all of a sudden ideas just you can't turn away a sudden ideas just you can't turn away a sudden ideas just you can't turn away from them. from them. from them. >> Do those creative ideas do you find a >> Do those creative ideas do you find a >> Do those creative ideas do you find a set of systems or rituals or processes set of systems or rituals or processes set of systems or rituals or processes that help you access that or is it more that help you access that or is it more that help you access that or is it more organic? And organic? And organic? And >> I know all every writer's got their own >> I know all every writer's got their own >> I know all every writer's got their own process. Some, you know, I'm up at 5:00 process. Some, you know, I'm up at 5:00 process. Some, you know, I'm up at 5:00 a.m. I run I run two miles. I have a cup a.m. I run I run two miles. I have a cup a.m. I run I run two miles. I have a cup of coffee. I sit down. I write 18 pages of coffee. I sit down. I write 18 pages of coffee. I sit down. I write 18 pages and then I call it a day. For me, it's a and then I call it a day. For me, it's a and then I call it a day. For me, it's a slow boil. I noodle around for most of slow boil. I noodle around for most of slow boil. I noodle around for most of the day. get to the point toward the end the day. get to the point toward the end the day. get to the point toward the end of the day, maybe 4 or 5:00 in the of the day, maybe 4 or 5:00 in the of the day, maybe 4 or 5:00 in the afternoon, where I've been playing, afternoon, where I've been playing, afternoon, where I've been playing, maybe I've been doing notes, maybe I've been doing notes, maybe I've been doing notes, and then I'll just say, "Okay, time to and then I'll just say, "Okay, time to and then I'll just say, "Okay, time to write some pages." write some pages." write some pages." >> And then usually for about 3 hours, I'll >> And then usually for about 3 hours, I'll >> And then usually for about 3 hours, I'll write pages. And I'll I'll get four or write pages. And I'll I'll get four or write pages. And I'll I'll get four or five pages. It'll it'll come fast five pages. It'll it'll come fast five pages. It'll it'll come fast >> at that point, you know, and that's when >> at that point, you know, and that's when >> at that point, you know, and that's when you hit your stride in screenwriting. you hit your stride in screenwriting. you hit your stride in screenwriting. >> Yeah. You you can see that the way >> Yeah. You you can see that the way >> Yeah. You you can see that the way you're describing the scene with Caj's you're describing the scene with Caj's you're describing the scene with Caj's son because there's almost like three son because there's almost like three son because there's almost like three different story lines kind of different story lines kind of different story lines kind of >> uh connecting in that moment around that >> uh connecting in that moment around that >> uh connecting in that moment around that one thing that you just pointed out. one thing that you just pointed out. one thing that you just pointed out. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> But there's so many other things going >> But there's so many other things going >> But there's so many other things going on at the same time. on at the same time. on at the same time. >> Oh, I usually come up with way more >> Oh, I usually come up with way more >> Oh, I usually come up with way more ideas than I could conceivably pack into ideas than I could conceivably pack into ideas than I could conceivably pack into a movie and then I'll I'll winnow that a movie and then I'll I'll winnow that a movie and then I'll I'll winnow that down. I'll winnow that down to a big old down. I'll winnow that down to a big old down. I'll winnow that down to a big old fat screenplay that's unshootable. And fat screenplay that's unshootable. And fat screenplay that's unshootable. And then I'll winnow that down. And then then I'll winnow that down. And then then I'll winnow that down. And then I'll make a movie that's four hours I'll make a movie that's four hours I'll make a movie that's four hours long. And then I'll winnow that down. long. And then I'll winnow that down. long. And then I'll winnow that down. And then what you get is the end result And then what you get is the end result And then what you get is the end result is the distillation of the distillation is the distillation of the distillation is the distillation of the distillation of the best ideas. And then that's what of the best ideas. And then that's what of the best ideas. And then that's what winds up in the lean little tight indie winds up in the lean little tight indie winds up in the lean little tight indie film that I like to call Fire and Ash. film that I like to call Fire and Ash. film that I like to call Fire and Ash. It's only only 3 hours and 7 minutes It's only only 3 hours and 7 minutes It's only only 3 hours and 7 minutes long. One thing I've been reflecting on long. One thing I've been reflecting on long. One thing I've been reflecting on lately is how even the smallest choices lately is how even the smallest choices lately is how even the smallest choices can create a big impact over time. can create a big impact over time. can create a big impact over time. Whether it's choosing to spend a quiet Whether it's choosing to spend a quiet Whether it's choosing to spend a quiet night in to recharge or making a night in to recharge or making a night in to recharge or making a decision that brings you closer to a decision that brings you closer to a decision that brings you closer to a long-term goal, those moments of long-term goal, those moments of long-term goal, those moments of intention really matter. And when it intention really matter. And when it intention really matter. And when it comes to the choices we make with our comes to the choices we make with our comes to the choices we make with our money, that same mindset applies. I've money, that same mindset applies. I've money, that same mindset applies. I've learned that saving for the things that learned that saving for the things that learned that saving for the things that truly matter, like your first home or a truly matter, like your first home or a truly matter, like your first home or a reliable car, starts with small, reliable car, starts with small, reliable car, starts with small, thoughtful decisions. That's why I thoughtful decisions. That's why I thoughtful decisions. That's why I appreciate what State Farm is doing with appreciate what State Farm is doing with appreciate what State Farm is doing with their personal price plan. It gives you their personal price plan. It gives you their personal price plan. 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What's incredible about it when I watched it, incredible about it when I watched it, incredible about it when I watched it, and I was so grateful that you allowed and I was so grateful that you allowed and I was so grateful that you allowed me to go see it last week, and as I me to go see it last week, and as I me to go see it last week, and as I said, when I was there, the uh gentleman said, when I was there, the uh gentleman said, when I was there, the uh gentleman in the theater who was playing it for in the theater who was playing it for in the theater who was playing it for me, he told me which seat you'd like me me, he told me which seat you'd like me me, he told me which seat you'd like me to watch it from, which I thought was a to watch it from, which I thought was a to watch it from, which I thought was a beautiful experience to have. So, I said beautiful experience to have. So, I said beautiful experience to have. So, I said I said, "Yes, I want to sit in the exact I said, "Yes, I want to sit in the exact I said, "Yes, I want to sit in the exact seat." And then seat." And then seat." And then >> well no it's good that you moved back >> well no it's good that you moved back >> well no it's good that you moved back though. though. though. >> I did that. He told me I had that >> I did that. He told me I had that >> I did that. He told me I had that option. He said option. He said option. He said >> I did that to uh uh today actually uh >> I did that to uh uh today actually uh >> I did that to uh uh today actually uh for the first time. I watched from the for the first time. I watched from the for the first time. I watched from the seat behind. Now normally that's my seat behind. Now normally that's my seat behind. Now normally that's my working seat when I'm reviewing because working seat when I'm reviewing because working seat when I'm reviewing because you can see that there's a desk there you can see that there's a desk there you can see that there's a desk there with an avid and so on. Um, but I with an avid and so on. Um, but I with an avid and so on. Um, but I thought, well, let me see. Let me see thought, well, let me see. Let me see thought, well, let me see. Let me see what it's like from there where I it what it's like from there where I it what it's like from there where I it doesn't fill my peripheral field and doesn't fill my peripheral field and doesn't fill my peripheral field and I've got a little bit more of that sense I've got a little bit more of that sense I've got a little bit more of that sense of control that you have when it's a of control that you have when it's a of control that you have when it's a proenium, you know, and I thought, "Oh, proenium, you know, and I thought, "Oh, proenium, you know, and I thought, "Oh, this is actually pretty good." this is actually pretty good." this is actually pretty good." >> It was spectacular, but more >> It was spectacular, but more >> It was spectacular, but more importantly, 3 hours and 7 minutes flew importantly, 3 hours and 7 minutes flew importantly, 3 hours and 7 minutes flew by. There was never a moment. I didn't I by. There was never a moment. I didn't I by. There was never a moment. I didn't I was I didn't look at my phone once in 3 was I didn't look at my phone once in 3 was I didn't look at my phone once in 3 hours and 7 minutes. To me, that's the hours and 7 minutes. To me, that's the hours and 7 minutes. To me, that's the test today of having your engagement, test today of having your engagement, test today of having your engagement, attention, and awareness. attention, and awareness. attention, and awareness. >> Right. So, we passed the most critical >> Right. So, we passed the most critical >> Right. So, we passed the most critical test test test >> and Yeah. And the most magnificent thing >> and Yeah. And the most magnificent thing >> and Yeah. And the most magnificent thing is that so much happens. is that so much happens. is that so much happens. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Like you're just on the edge of your >> Like you're just on the edge of your >> Like you're just on the edge of your seat wondering what's going to happen seat wondering what's going to happen seat wondering what's going to happen next and so much is happening, next and so much is happening, next and so much is happening, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> And to do that for 3 hours and 7 minutes >> And to do that for 3 hours and 7 minutes >> And to do that for 3 hours and 7 minutes in your indie movie is uh is pretty it's in your indie movie is uh is pretty it's in your indie movie is uh is pretty it's just an incredible feast for the eyes just an incredible feast for the eyes just an incredible feast for the eyes and ears and like I felt like all my and ears and like I felt like all my and ears and like I felt like all my senses are engaged all the time which is senses are engaged all the time which is senses are engaged all the time which is such a beautiful experience to have such a beautiful experience to have such a beautiful experience to have where just every time a new scene opens where just every time a new scene opens where just every time a new scene opens you just totally captivated and it's you just totally captivated and it's you just totally captivated and it's well thanks. It's it's so hard to do well thanks. It's it's so hard to do well thanks. It's it's so hard to do that for that long, especially with I I that for that long, especially with I I that for that long, especially with I I consider myself to have good presence consider myself to have good presence consider myself to have good presence and attention, but even then I can turn and attention, but even then I can turn and attention, but even then I can turn off something in 30 minutes when you you off something in 30 minutes when you you off something in 30 minutes when you you know, and so to have your engagement not know, and so to have your engagement not know, and so to have your engagement not just on a story level, but on a sensory just on a story level, but on a sensory just on a story level, but on a sensory level and uh level and uh level and uh >> I think yeah, I think you're on to >> I think yeah, I think you're on to >> I think yeah, I think you're on to something there in describing as you're something there in describing as you're something there in describing as you're saying it, I'm thinking, well, what are saying it, I'm thinking, well, what are saying it, I'm thinking, well, what are my goals creatively? I want to tell a my goals creatively? I want to tell a my goals creatively? I want to tell a great story with good characters that I great story with good characters that I great story with good characters that I care about and I I care about how they care about and I I care about how they care about and I I care about how they interact with each other and how their interact with each other and how their interact with each other and how their relationships evolve and and how they relationships evolve and and how they relationships evolve and and how they resolve their own conflicts, you know, resolve their own conflicts, you know, resolve their own conflicts, you know, in a in a way that moves me, you know, in a in a way that moves me, you know, in a in a way that moves me, you know, because if I can't move myself in a because if I can't move myself in a because if I can't move myself in a story, how do I expect to to move move story, how do I expect to to move move story, how do I expect to to move move an audience emotionally, right? But then an audience emotionally, right? But then an audience emotionally, right? But then the layer on top of that is the sensory the layer on top of that is the sensory the layer on top of that is the sensory layer which is color, composition, all layer which is color, composition, all layer which is color, composition, all of those artistic things, you know, of those artistic things, you know, of those artistic things, you know, because I also started as a an artist, because I also started as a an artist, because I also started as a an artist, you know, figuratively, but I I could you know, figuratively, but I I could you know, figuratively, but I I could draw, I could paint, I knew the rules of draw, I could paint, I knew the rules of draw, I could paint, I knew the rules of of composition. I knew all, you know, I of composition. I knew all, you know, I of composition. I knew all, you know, I I learned all the art history, I learned all the art history, I learned all the art history, Renaissance, lighting, composition, all Renaissance, lighting, composition, all Renaissance, lighting, composition, all that sort of thing. So, there's a that sort of thing. So, there's a that sort of thing. So, there's a aesthetic level to it that I like. aesthetic level to it that I like. aesthetic level to it that I like. There's the world building level where There's the world building level where There's the world building level where every plant, every plant, every plant, you know, either looks real and or has a you know, either looks real and or has a you know, either looks real and or has a purpose, purpose, purpose, >> you know, and we spend an awful lot of >> you know, and we spend an awful lot of >> you know, and we spend an awful lot of time, fortunately, you know, we're we're time, fortunately, you know, we're we're time, fortunately, you know, we're we're blessed with good budgets and good good blessed with good budgets and good good blessed with good budgets and good good time to sort of let these ideas marinate time to sort of let these ideas marinate time to sort of let these ideas marinate and and justate, right? And I've got and and justate, right? And I've got and and justate, right? And I've got great designers. It doesn't all flow great designers. It doesn't all flow great designers. It doesn't all flow from my consciousness. It comes out very from my consciousness. It comes out very from my consciousness. It comes out very out of focus, if you will. And it's an out of focus, if you will. And it's an out of focus, if you will. And it's an act of working with other people to act of working with other people to act of working with other people to bring it more and more into finite bring it more and more into finite bring it more and more into finite detail. Right? I've got the I call I detail. Right? I've got the I call I detail. Right? I've got the I call I call it uh my role is to create the call it uh my role is to create the call it uh my role is to create the grand provocation for the other creative grand provocation for the other creative grand provocation for the other creative people. And I got that term from my wife people. And I got that term from my wife people. And I got that term from my wife Susie who's an educator and she says the Susie who's an educator and she says the Susie who's an educator and she says the the school provides the provocation. The the school provides the provocation. The the school provides the provocation. The kids provide the investigation and the kids provide the investigation and the kids provide the investigation and the curiosity and the passion to that's curiosity and the passion to that's curiosity and the passion to that's brilliant. brilliant. brilliant. >> Right. And I think it's very it's very >> Right. And I think it's very it's very >> Right. And I think it's very it's very good. It's the basis of her school. She good. It's the basis of her school. She good. It's the basis of her school. She can do all that stuff better than I can. can do all that stuff better than I can. can do all that stuff better than I can. I'm just a bystander to that part of it. I'm just a bystander to that part of it. I'm just a bystander to that part of it. But I think about what I do. I come in But I think about what I do. I come in But I think about what I do. I come in and I say, "Guys, we're going to do the and I say, "Guys, we're going to do the and I say, "Guys, we're going to do the coolest woven tropical village, coolest woven tropical village, coolest woven tropical village, overwater village." Now, what is that? overwater village." Now, what is that? overwater village." Now, what is that? And you'd think that they could create And you'd think that they could create And you'd think that they could create that in a week or two weeks. No, it took that in a week or two weeks. No, it took that in a week or two weeks. No, it took a year. And because because part of the a year. And because because part of the a year. And because because part of the provocation was, and it all has to be provocation was, and it all has to be provocation was, and it all has to be intention. Nothing is built with rigid intention. Nothing is built with rigid intention. Nothing is built with rigid cut lumber the way we would do it where cut lumber the way we would do it where cut lumber the way we would do it where we create posts that are that are in um we create posts that are that are in um we create posts that are that are in um um compression, right? Everything's in um compression, right? Everything's in um compression, right? Everything's in tension. It's like a spiderweb. It's all tension. It's like a spiderweb. It's all tension. It's like a spiderweb. It's all woven between these big structures like woven between these big structures like woven between these big structures like the mangrove roots. And so they were the mangrove roots. And so they were the mangrove roots. And so they were actually sculpting with panty hose actually sculpting with panty hose actually sculpting with panty hose >> to get the right degree of elasticity. >> to get the right degree of elasticity. >> to get the right degree of elasticity. To put it all in tension, they sculpted To put it all in tension, they sculpted To put it all in tension, they sculpted the village with panty hose. This is the village with panty hose. This is the village with panty hose. This is this is absolutely true. And then they this is absolutely true. And then they this is absolutely true. And then they they wo these little structures that they wo these little structures that they wo these little structures that later became the the homes and the later became the the homes and the later became the the homes and the walkways and all that. And then they walkways and all that. And then they walkways and all that. And then they developed it from there. And then developed it from there. And then developed it from there. And then eventually we started building full eventually we started building full eventually we started building full scale not full scale but say quarter scale not full scale but say quarter scale not full scale but say quarter scale models of these woven structures. scale models of these woven structures. scale models of these woven structures. And so when you walk through it, you And so when you walk through it, you And so when you walk through it, you don't really get a chance. I always want don't really get a chance. I always want don't really get a chance. I always want to give a little more than you can p to give a little more than you can p to give a little more than you can p fully perceive cuz isn't that what daily fully perceive cuz isn't that what daily fully perceive cuz isn't that what daily life is like? There's always more going life is like? There's always more going life is like? There's always more going by than you can fully perceive, you by than you can fully perceive, you by than you can fully perceive, you know? And so the brain becomes know? And so the brain becomes know? And so the brain becomes selective. Okay. What what's narratively selective. Okay. What what's narratively selective. Okay. What what's narratively important to me? important to me? important to me? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> In the moment. >> In the moment. >> In the moment. >> No. And the talking about the emotional >> No. And the talking about the emotional >> No. And the talking about the emotional nature of the characters and the story. nature of the characters and the story. nature of the characters and the story. My wife always says my wife always says My wife always says my wife always says My wife always says my wife always says I think James Cameron and his team have I think James Cameron and his team have I think James Cameron and his team have been to other planets. That's what she been to other planets. That's what she been to other planets. That's what she always says whenever she watches one of always says whenever she watches one of always says whenever she watches one of your she's like he's been to other your she's like he's been to other your she's like he's been to other planets in other lifetimes. Like that's planets in other lifetimes. Like that's planets in other lifetimes. Like that's what she'll say. should be like how how what she'll say. should be like how how what she'll say. should be like how how is it that you know you could and and is it that you know you could and and is it that you know you could and and you feel that because you feel the depth you feel that because you feel the depth you feel that because you feel the depth of the relationship the characters have of the relationship the characters have of the relationship the characters have for each other. You feel that you you for each other. You feel that you you for each other. You feel that you you fully believe this is real. It must fully believe this is real. It must fully believe this is real. It must exist somewhere. exist somewhere. exist somewhere. >> Yeah. Right. >> Yeah. Right. >> Yeah. Right. >> Because how can you feel so deeply for >> Because how can you feel so deeply for >> Because how can you feel so deeply for people who look different to you and people who look different to you and people who look different to you and feel different to you and have different feel different to you and have different feel different to you and have different experience? But we we feel experience? But we we feel experience? But we we feel >> that's a goal, right? So the goal is all >> that's a goal, right? So the goal is all >> that's a goal, right? So the goal is all right these people look different. right these people look different. right these people look different. They're physiologically different. They They're physiologically different. They They're physiologically different. They live in a different place. But doesn't live in a different place. But doesn't live in a different place. But doesn't that give us permission to step outside that give us permission to step outside that give us permission to step outside ourselves with our petty little ourselves with our petty little ourselves with our petty little differences between race and culture and differences between race and culture and differences between race and culture and religion and and politics and all that religion and and politics and all that religion and and politics and all that stuff. Step well outside ourselves and stuff. Step well outside ourselves and stuff. Step well outside ourselves and see kind of universals of human behavior see kind of universals of human behavior see kind of universals of human behavior and the things we care about whether and the things we care about whether and the things we care about whether that's a sense of uh duty and love that that's a sense of uh duty and love that that's a sense of uh duty and love that a parent has for their for their child. a parent has for their for their child. a parent has for their for their child. And that's why these films travel, I And that's why these films travel, I And that's why these films travel, I think, you know, why they they resonate think, you know, why they they resonate think, you know, why they they resonate in in China, in India, in Europe, in in in China, in India, in Europe, in in in China, in India, in Europe, in Africa, wherever they go, because I'm Africa, wherever they go, because I'm Africa, wherever they go, because I'm trying to deal with universal stuff, but trying to deal with universal stuff, but trying to deal with universal stuff, but but I'm not trying to make stuff up, but I'm not trying to make stuff up, but I'm not trying to make stuff up, right? So, with the sequels, um, uh, Way right? So, with the sequels, um, uh, Way right? So, with the sequels, um, uh, Way of Water and Fire, Fire and Ash, and of Water and Fire, Fire and Ash, and of Water and Fire, Fire and Ash, and beyond that, if we get to make some beyond that, if we get to make some beyond that, if we get to make some more, I don't know if we will or not. We more, I don't know if we will or not. We more, I don't know if we will or not. We have to make some money, you I mean, have to make some money, you I mean, have to make some money, you I mean, it's a business also, but um if we do it's a business also, but um if we do it's a business also, but um if we do get to make some more, the stories are get to make some more, the stories are get to make some more, the stories are about a family about a family about a family >> and so I couldn't pro not only couldn't >> and so I couldn't pro not only couldn't >> and so I couldn't pro not only couldn't but probably wouldn't have even tried to but probably wouldn't have even tried to but probably wouldn't have even tried to write them if I hadn't been in a large write them if I hadn't been in a large write them if I hadn't been in a large family and gone through all that teen family and gone through all that teen family and gone through all that teen angst and that issue, the father issues angst and that issue, the father issues angst and that issue, the father issues and not being seen and all those things and not being seen and all those things and not being seen and all those things and then having been a father of teens. and then having been a father of teens. and then having been a father of teens. We've got uh Susie and I have five kids We've got uh Susie and I have five kids We've got uh Susie and I have five kids and uh so I mean artists are just and uh so I mean artists are just and uh so I mean artists are just working out their stuff, working out their stuff, working out their stuff, >> you know, their lived experience and >> you know, their lived experience and >> you know, their lived experience and project and and but taking that to project and and but taking that to project and and but taking that to another world and putting it in another another world and putting it in another another world and putting it in another context allows everybody to share in it context allows everybody to share in it context allows everybody to share in it andor recognize themselves in it either andor recognize themselves in it either andor recognize themselves in it either in a aspirational way like wow I wish I in a aspirational way like wow I wish I in a aspirational way like wow I wish I was part of a family like that. my was part of a family like that. my was part of a family like that. my family not so great or maybe I don't family not so great or maybe I don't family not so great or maybe I don't have a lot of siblings or maybe I wonder have a lot of siblings or maybe I wonder have a lot of siblings or maybe I wonder what that would be like or maybe it's what that would be like or maybe it's what that would be like or maybe it's like I'm in exactly that kind of family like I'm in exactly that kind of family like I'm in exactly that kind of family >> and I wish I wasn't sometimes you know >> and I wish I wasn't sometimes you know >> and I wish I wasn't sometimes you know >> uh I I I've been repeating to my wife >> uh I I I've been repeating to my wife >> uh I I I've been repeating to my wife I'm saying this in reaction in response I'm saying this in reaction in response I'm saying this in reaction in response to what you just said now I've been to what you just said now I've been to what you just said now I've been saying to my wife all week we need to saying to my wife all week we need to saying to my wife all week we need to have we don't have kids yet but we plan have we don't have kids yet but we plan have we don't have kids yet but we plan on having them one day and I said when on having them one day and I said when on having them one day and I said when we have kids we need to have u mantras we have kids we need to have u mantras we have kids we need to have u mantras and affirmations as a family so I keep and affirmations as a family so I keep and affirmations as a family so I keep saying to her sull's never quit like I'm saying to her sull's never quit like I'm saying to her sull's never quit like I'm like like like >> there you keep saying that to us. I'm >> there you keep saying that to us. I'm >> there you keep saying that to us. I'm like, I love that statement. It stuck like, I love that statement. It stuck like, I love that statement. It stuck with me. And I was like to see with me. And I was like to see with me. And I was like to see >> the little child's like courage in that >> the little child's like courage in that >> the little child's like courage in that moment moment moment >> where they're in so much danger, in so >> where they're in so much danger, in so >> where they're in so much danger, in so much pain, but they remember that their much pain, but they remember that their much pain, but they remember that their dad told them that Sully's never quit, dad told them that Sully's never quit, dad told them that Sully's never quit, >> right? And then when she says it, >> right? And then when she says it, >> right? And then when she says it, >> when she says it later, she basically >> when she says it later, she basically >> when she says it later, she basically saves the world saves the world saves the world >> with one thing where she says, you know, >> with one thing where she says, you know, >> with one thing where she says, you know, come on, we can do this. Sully's never come on, we can do this. Sully's never come on, we can do this. Sully's never quit. And you're like, go to quit. And you're like, go to quit. And you're like, go to >> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah, that's that feeling >> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah, that's that feeling >> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah, that's that feeling of I'm like to see that courage in a of I'm like to see that courage in a of I'm like to see that courage in a young person and how these simple young person and how these simple young person and how these simple universal me messages are things they universal me messages are things they universal me messages are things they hold on to in a child's mind. And then hold on to in a child's mind. And then hold on to in a child's mind. And then even the storyline with Pyon like for me even the storyline with Pyon like for me even the storyline with Pyon like for me that that that >> oh my I mean from the second to the >> oh my I mean from the second to the >> oh my I mean from the second to the third because when I watched um the third because when I watched um the third because when I watched um the second movie for me that fully just made second movie for me that fully just made second movie for me that fully just made me fall in sea life in a way that I me fall in sea life in a way that I me fall in sea life in a way that I hadn't before hadn't before hadn't before >> right >> right >> right >> and and and got a I was like wow this is >> and and and got a I was like wow this is >> and and and got a I was like wow this is genius in how you're sharing a message genius in how you're sharing a message genius in how you're sharing a message around you know uh water wildlife that around you know uh water wildlife that around you know uh water wildlife that we just don't treat well anymore. we we just don't treat well anymore. we we just don't treat well anymore. we won't protect what we don't love and won't protect what we don't love and won't protect what we don't love and care about. Right? And so this I'm I'm care about. Right? And so this I'm I'm care about. Right? And so this I'm I'm working at a very small part of a much working at a very small part of a much working at a very small part of a much bigger project that's being run by a bigger project that's being run by a bigger project that's being run by a marine biologist named David Gruber. And marine biologist named David Gruber. And marine biologist named David Gruber. And he's he's working with people who are he's he's working with people who are he's he's working with people who are are in AI and machine learning kind of are in AI and machine learning kind of are in AI and machine learning kind of more side of AI and but they're using more side of AI and but they're using more side of AI and but they're using some large language model technology as some large language model technology as some large language model technology as well to decode well to decode well to decode um whale whale vocalizations. So, um whale whale vocalizations. So, um whale whale vocalizations. So, they've got thousands of hours of sperm they've got thousands of hours of sperm they've got thousands of hours of sperm whale vocalizations, and they've got whale vocalizations, and they've got whale vocalizations, and they've got some context footage of what socially some context footage of what socially some context footage of what socially they're doing, and they're decoding they're doing, and they're decoding they're doing, and they're decoding their their uh clicks, which are called their their uh clicks, which are called their their uh clicks, which are called kodas, and their click sequences. And kodas, and their click sequences. And kodas, and their click sequences. And they're finding that they have verbs, they're finding that they have verbs, they're finding that they have verbs, they have syntax, they have complex they have syntax, they have complex they have syntax, they have complex language, at least as complex as human language, at least as complex as human language, at least as complex as human language, which is kind of amazing. Wow. language, which is kind of amazing. Wow. language, which is kind of amazing. Wow. But it all sounds like if you could But it all sounds like if you could But it all sounds like if you could actually hear it, it sounds like that's like a whole paragraph in in that's like a whole paragraph in in sperm whale, sperm whale, sperm whale, >> you know, and it's taken years and years >> you know, and it's taken years and years >> you know, and it's taken years and years and AI tools. So, yeah, nature is far and AI tools. So, yeah, nature is far and AI tools. So, yeah, nature is far more complex than we understand. more complex than we understand. more complex than we understand. Consciousness is clearly shared by some Consciousness is clearly shared by some Consciousness is clearly shared by some of the higher uh mammals, even some of the higher uh mammals, even some of the higher uh mammals, even some birds, you know, um that that have true birds, you know, um that that have true birds, you know, um that that have true consciousness, you know, that they consciousness, you know, that they consciousness, you know, that they recognize themselves in a mirror. And recognize themselves in a mirror. And recognize themselves in a mirror. And that's one of the key signs that there that's one of the key signs that there that's one of the key signs that there is a a higher form of consciousness. is a a higher form of consciousness. is a a higher form of consciousness. Like a dog doesn't recognize itself as Like a dog doesn't recognize itself as Like a dog doesn't recognize itself as an individual in a mirror. And we think an individual in a mirror. And we think an individual in a mirror. And we think of dogs as conscious and of course they of dogs as conscious and of course they of dogs as conscious and of course they are uh and they're they're emotive and are uh and they're they're emotive and are uh and they're they're emotive and they're empathetic and they're very much they're empathetic and they're very much they're empathetic and they're very much like us emotionally, but they don't have like us emotionally, but they don't have like us emotionally, but they don't have a consciousness high enough to recognize a consciousness high enough to recognize a consciousness high enough to recognize their individual selves in a mirror. But their individual selves in a mirror. But their individual selves in a mirror. But an elephant can, a chimpanzeee can, and an elephant can, a chimpanzeee can, and an elephant can, a chimpanzeee can, and a dolphin can. a dolphin can. a dolphin can. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> And uh I don't know if they've done >> And uh I don't know if they've done >> And uh I don't know if they've done that. I think they've proven that a that. I think they've proven that a that. I think they've proven that a beluga whale can as well, but I don't beluga whale can as well, but I don't beluga whale can as well, but I don't think they've done it with the great think they've done it with the great think they've done it with the great whales. It's just a little difficult to whales. It's just a little difficult to whales. It's just a little difficult to do because you can't put them in a tank do because you can't put them in a tank do because you can't put them in a tank and study them like some of the smaller and study them like some of the smaller and study them like some of the smaller tooth whales like dolphins and and tooth whales like dolphins and and tooth whales like dolphins and and belugas. But anyway, there's even a belugas. But anyway, there's even a belugas. But anyway, there's even a parrot species in New Zealand that is parrot species in New Zealand that is parrot species in New Zealand that is intelligent enough to recognize itself intelligent enough to recognize itself intelligent enough to recognize itself as an individual. Um, most birds can't. as an individual. Um, most birds can't. as an individual. Um, most birds can't. So, you know, you've got these glimmers So, you know, you've got these glimmers So, you know, you've got these glimmers of emergent uh consciousness besides us, of emergent uh consciousness besides us, of emergent uh consciousness besides us, you know, and now we're going to have you know, and now we're going to have you know, and now we're going to have machine consciousness emerging in the machine consciousness emerging in the machine consciousness emerging in the next decade or whatever it's going to next decade or whatever it's going to next decade or whatever it's going to be. And that's going to be a whole new be. And that's going to be a whole new be. And that's going to be a whole new set of challenges for us as well. We set of challenges for us as well. We set of challenges for us as well. We don't even understand consciousness yet don't even understand consciousness yet don't even understand consciousness yet in ourselves. And now we're going to in ourselves. And now we're going to in ourselves. And now we're going to have to to start relating to this alien have to to start relating to this alien have to to start relating to this alien consciousness that we that we create. consciousness that we that we create. consciousness that we that we create. >> Yeah, absolutely. And and it's almost >> Yeah, absolutely. And and it's almost >> Yeah, absolutely. And and it's almost like I was I was speaking at a like I was I was speaking at a like I was I was speaking at a conference about AI and consciousness conference about AI and consciousness conference about AI and consciousness recently and someone asked me if I ever recently and someone asked me if I ever recently and someone asked me if I ever believed AI would ever have a soul and believed AI would ever have a soul and believed AI would ever have a soul and my response was I'm not qualified to my response was I'm not qualified to my response was I'm not qualified to answer whether AI will ever have a soul answer whether AI will ever have a soul answer whether AI will ever have a soul but but but >> I really hope the people building AI >> I really hope the people building AI >> I really hope the people building AI have a soul because it's so much of have a soul because it's so much of have a soul because it's so much of >> bingo or conscience more that's what I >> bingo or conscience more that's what I >> bingo or conscience more that's what I meant. Yeah. I think you can have a if meant. Yeah. I think you can have a if meant. Yeah. I think you can have a if you if you believe in some kind of you if you believe in some kind of you if you believe in some kind of animus or spirit or soul or whatever it animus or spirit or soul or whatever it animus or spirit or soul or whatever it is that's persistent beyond the is that's persistent beyond the is that's persistent beyond the biological framework. I personally don't biological framework. I personally don't biological framework. I personally don't just saying that up front. But if you just saying that up front. But if you just saying that up front. But if you but I also I I won't u bet completely but I also I I won't u bet completely but I also I I won't u bet completely against something that just hasn't against something that just hasn't against something that just hasn't simply been proven yet. Um but but I but simply been proven yet. Um but but I but simply been proven yet. Um but but I but I also only I believe in believing in I also only I believe in believing in I also only I believe in believing in things that have been empirically things that have been empirically things that have been empirically demonstrated and being kind of agnostic demonstrated and being kind of agnostic demonstrated and being kind of agnostic or fluid about everything else. Right. or fluid about everything else. Right. or fluid about everything else. Right. But but if if you do believe in that, But but if if you do believe in that, But but if if you do believe in that, then um a machine couldn't possibly have then um a machine couldn't possibly have then um a machine couldn't possibly have that, now could it? Because we didn't that, now could it? Because we didn't that, now could it? Because we didn't create that in the first place. And if create that in the first place. And if create that in the first place. And if we think we can create a machine that we think we can create a machine that we think we can create a machine that that can have it, then we can't. So now that can have it, then we can't. So now that can have it, then we can't. So now you get the sort of the soulless uh the you get the sort of the soulless uh the you get the sort of the soulless uh the soulless Frankenstein kind of mythology soulless Frankenstein kind of mythology soulless Frankenstein kind of mythology around that. On the other hand, if you around that. On the other hand, if you around that. On the other hand, if you believe that consciousness is this kind believe that consciousness is this kind believe that consciousness is this kind of field of of of operations that is of field of of of operations that is of field of of of operations that is almost infinitely complex but but um can almost infinitely complex but but um can almost infinitely complex but but um can be understood as a real a real world be understood as a real a real world be understood as a real a real world thing based in matter. Um then thing based in matter. Um then thing based in matter. Um then theoretically a machine intelligence theoretically a machine intelligence theoretically a machine intelligence could be as soulful as empathetic as could be as soulful as empathetic as could be as soulful as empathetic as emotional as us although it might be emotional as us although it might be emotional as us although it might be very very very different. And then you very very very different. And then you very very very different. And then you get into the quantum physics of get into the quantum physics of get into the quantum physics of consciousness where you've got observer consciousness where you've got observer consciousness where you've got observer effect and things like that where there effect and things like that where there effect and things like that where there seems to be some link at a quantum level seems to be some link at a quantum level seems to be some link at a quantum level with consciousness and then all bets are with consciousness and then all bets are with consciousness and then all bets are off, off, off, you know. And I've had I've had some you know. And I've had I've had some you know. And I've had I've had some strange experiences with one one strange experiences with one one strange experiences with one one practitioner in particular that believed practitioner in particular that believed practitioner in particular that believed in quantum consciousness and could do in quantum consciousness and could do in quantum consciousness and could do things I can't explain things I can't explain things I can't explain >> to me to my mind. What do you mean? And >> to me to my mind. What do you mean? And >> to me to my mind. What do you mean? And I'm well could actually actually create I'm well could actually actually create I'm well could actually actually create a state of consciousness in my mind by a state of consciousness in my mind by a state of consciousness in my mind by sitting across from me just like you are sitting across from me just like you are sitting across from me just like you are right now. right now. right now. >> And I am not I'm not hypnotizable. >> And I am not I'm not hypnotizable. >> And I am not I'm not hypnotizable. Nobody's ever been able to hypnotize me. Nobody's ever been able to hypnotize me. Nobody's ever been able to hypnotize me. I'm pretty resistant to any kind of I'm pretty resistant to any kind of I'm pretty resistant to any kind of suggestability, suggestability, suggestability, but this particular individual was able but this particular individual was able but this particular individual was able to do something. to do something. to do something. >> What were you What were you >> What were you What were you >> What were you What were you experimenting with that you even sat experimenting with that you even sat experimenting with that you even sat across someone like that? My wife Susie across someone like that? My wife Susie across someone like that? My wife Susie had met this guy and worked with him and had met this guy and worked with him and had met this guy and worked with him and workshopped with him a lot many many workshopped with him a lot many many workshopped with him a lot many many years earlier and said, "You really need years earlier and said, "You really need years earlier and said, "You really need to meet this guy." His name was Carl to meet this guy." His name was Carl to meet this guy." His name was Carl Wolf. And I was very skeptical. Like I Wolf. And I was very skeptical. Like I Wolf. And I was very skeptical. Like I said, I'm I'm an empiricist. You got to, said, I'm I'm an empiricist. You got to, said, I'm I'm an empiricist. You got to, you know, and I said, "All right, I'm you know, and I said, "All right, I'm you know, and I said, "All right, I'm skeptical, but I'll but I'll I'll do it skeptical, but I'll but I'll I'll do it skeptical, but I'll but I'll I'll do it for you, baby." for you, baby." for you, baby." And something happened, and I can't And something happened, and I can't And something happened, and I can't explain it. explain it. explain it. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Something happened. Now, what was it? I >> Something happened. Now, what was it? I >> Something happened. Now, what was it? I don't know. Carl had hypothesis. I don't don't know. Carl had hypothesis. I don't don't know. Carl had hypothesis. I don't know if his own hypothesis were know if his own hypothesis were know if his own hypothesis were accurate. I'd love to ask him, but accurate. I'd love to ask him, but accurate. I'd love to ask him, but unfortunately, he he died tragically in unfortunately, he he died tragically in unfortunately, he he died tragically in a in a car accident. And cuz I wanted to a in a car accident. And cuz I wanted to a in a car accident. And cuz I wanted to like, can I just spend millions of like, can I just spend millions of like, can I just spend millions of dollars studying your mind, please? dollars studying your mind, please? dollars studying your mind, please? >> That's fascinating. I mean, what's >> That's fascinating. I mean, what's >> That's fascinating. I mean, what's beautiful about all these worlds you beautiful about all these worlds you beautiful about all these worlds you create and when I was researching your create and when I was researching your create and when I was researching your story and learning about just how many story and learning about just how many story and learning about just how many failures and moments you've had to quit failures and moments you've had to quit failures and moments you've had to quit and give up and again I think about our and give up and again I think about our and give up and again I think about our listeners and I think about them listeners and I think about them listeners and I think about them >> S's never quit. >> S's never quit. >> S's never quit. >> Sy's never quit. There you go. And and >> Sy's never quit. There you go. And and >> Sy's never quit. There you go. And and even what you just mentioned right now even what you just mentioned right now even what you just mentioned right now about your own experience with your about your own experience with your about your own experience with your father and then becoming a father and father and then becoming a father and father and then becoming a father and what that looks like what that looks like what that looks like >> was are the worlds you create worlds >> was are the worlds you create worlds >> was are the worlds you create worlds that you didn't have or did have for that you didn't have or did have for that you didn't have or did have for you? I think both right things. I mean, you? I think both right things. I mean, you? I think both right things. I mean, the thing that I've tried to do in the the thing that I've tried to do in the the thing that I've tried to do in the Avatar films is create a dynamic range Avatar films is create a dynamic range Avatar films is create a dynamic range of experience from ecstatic to of experience from ecstatic to of experience from ecstatic to terrifying to heart-wrenching, terrifying to heart-wrenching, terrifying to heart-wrenching, from despair to to joy, all of those all from despair to to joy, all of those all from despair to to joy, all of those all of those things. I think movies are of those things. I think movies are of those things. I think movies are pretty good at creating a state, maybe a pretty good at creating a state, maybe a pretty good at creating a state, maybe a state of dread or something like that, state of dread or something like that, state of dread or something like that, but I don't think they're good at taking but I don't think they're good at taking but I don't think they're good at taking you on that roller coaster ride that you on that roller coaster ride that you on that roller coaster ride that more is the way our our real existence more is the way our our real existence more is the way our our real existence is. So, I wanted to have amazing moments is. So, I wanted to have amazing moments is. So, I wanted to have amazing moments of beauty. I think beauty gets forgotten of beauty. I think beauty gets forgotten of beauty. I think beauty gets forgotten in movies these days. You know, in movies these days. You know, in movies these days. You know, everything is about threat and conflict everything is about threat and conflict everything is about threat and conflict and all that. Um, but I also wanted to and all that. Um, but I also wanted to and all that. Um, but I also wanted to take you on an emotional journey where take you on an emotional journey where take you on an emotional journey where you get to places that are that are that you get to places that are that are that you get to places that are that are that are either terrifying or or are either terrifying or or are either terrifying or or heart-wrenching through loss or or heart-wrenching through loss or or heart-wrenching through loss or or whatever. Um, and that's all dependent whatever. Um, and that's all dependent whatever. Um, and that's all dependent on performance, you know, that's all on performance, you know, that's all on performance, you know, that's all dependent on the actors. The actors are dependent on the actors. The actors are dependent on the actors. The actors are are our our path through this our are our our path through this our are our our path through this our conduit. We we see it all through conduit. We we see it all through conduit. We we see it all through through their eyes, you know. So, for through their eyes, you know. So, for through their eyes, you know. So, for me, the the real act of creation, me, the the real act of creation, me, the the real act of creation, everybody is quite enamored of the world everybody is quite enamored of the world everybody is quite enamored of the world building because that's what they see. building because that's what they see. building because that's what they see. they see the end result. But for me, they see the end result. But for me, they see the end result. But for me, it's about getting those characters down it's about getting those characters down it's about getting those characters down on the page, bringing it in with my on the page, bringing it in with my on the page, bringing it in with my actors, and and the beauty of the of the actors, and and the beauty of the of the actors, and and the beauty of the of the two sequels is that I was writing for two sequels is that I was writing for two sequels is that I was writing for for actors I knew, for actors I knew, for actors I knew, >> and I could hear the way they'd say it. >> and I could hear the way they'd say it. >> and I could hear the way they'd say it. And I didn't feel the dialogue is right And I didn't feel the dialogue is right And I didn't feel the dialogue is right until I knew that Slang, Steven Lang, until I knew that Slang, Steven Lang, until I knew that Slang, Steven Lang, who plays Cage, would say it that way, who plays Cage, would say it that way, who plays Cage, would say it that way, you know, or Sam would say it that way, you know, or Sam would say it that way, you know, or Sam would say it that way, or or Zoe would say it that way. And or or Zoe would say it that way. And or or Zoe would say it that way. And then of course I threw a new element in then of course I threw a new element in then of course I threw a new element in which is Una Chaplain who you know who which is Una Chaplain who you know who which is Una Chaplain who you know who plays Vang who's you know pretty pretty plays Vang who's you know pretty pretty plays Vang who's you know pretty pretty terrifying character at times and uh I terrifying character at times and uh I terrifying character at times and uh I wasn't making her up out of whole cloth wasn't making her up out of whole cloth wasn't making her up out of whole cloth obviously I didn't know who the actor obviously I didn't know who the actor obviously I didn't know who the actor was that was going to going to play her was that was going to going to play her was that was going to going to play her >> but that's the part where I think that >> but that's the part where I think that >> but that's the part where I think that engagement that you were talking about engagement that you were talking about engagement that you were talking about it's not just sensory and visual it's it's not just sensory and visual it's it's not just sensory and visual it's also heartfelt also heartfelt also heartfelt >> right >> right >> right and uh we bring our own human experience and uh we bring our own human experience and uh we bring our own human experience to it every time we walk into a movie to it every time we walk into a movie to it every time we walk into a movie theater. And I also think a critical theater. And I also think a critical theater. And I also think a critical part of the engagement is the theatrical part of the engagement is the theatrical part of the engagement is the theatrical experience. So a lot was made, you know, experience. So a lot was made, you know, experience. So a lot was made, you know, dur when during the rise of of like DVD dur when during the rise of of like DVD dur when during the rise of of like DVD and Blu-ray and all that. and Blu-ray and all that. and Blu-ray and all that. A lot was made about the fact that, oh A lot was made about the fact that, oh A lot was made about the fact that, oh well, you don't have a screen that big, well, you don't have a screen that big, well, you don't have a screen that big, your sound isn't that good, the theater your sound isn't that good, the theater your sound isn't that good, the theater is a better experience. But we're at the is a better experience. But we're at the is a better experience. But we're at the point now where you're probably your point now where you're probably your point now where you're probably your home TV set and your home soundbar and home TV set and your home soundbar and home TV set and your home soundbar and everything is as good as what what everything is as good as what what everything is as good as what what you're going to see in a movie theater. you're going to see in a movie theater. you're going to see in a movie theater. Um, so that goes away. So what's left? Um, so that goes away. So what's left? Um, so that goes away. So what's left? What's left is in our day-to-day life, What's left is in our day-to-day life, What's left is in our day-to-day life, we're very fragmented and scattered and we're very fragmented and scattered and we're very fragmented and scattered and and distracted and and multitasking and and distracted and and multitasking and and distracted and and multitasking and we're we're we're scrolling and and you we're we're we're scrolling and and you we're we're we're scrolling and and you know and we're typing and we're know and we're typing and we're know and we're typing and we're connected and um uh you know multi- connected and um uh you know multi- connected and um uh you know multi- channeling all simultaneously. channeling all simultaneously. channeling all simultaneously. Very rarely do we just sit in a Very rarely do we just sit in a Very rarely do we just sit in a meditative state and just focus. You meditative state and just focus. You meditative state and just focus. You know, people who practice mindfulness know, people who practice mindfulness know, people who practice mindfulness and yoga and things like that, they know and yoga and things like that, they know and yoga and things like that, they know how to do that. Um, and they do it to how to do that. Um, and they do it to how to do that. Um, and they do it to clear their mind. But what how often do clear their mind. But what how often do clear their mind. But what how often do we do it where we focus on a received we do it where we focus on a received we do it where we focus on a received experience? You know, some people will experience? You know, some people will experience? You know, some people will sit and read a novel for hours and sit and read a novel for hours and sit and read a novel for hours and hours. I think they're a dying breed, hours. I think they're a dying breed, hours. I think they're a dying breed, unfortunately. Um, but the movie theater unfortunately. Um, but the movie theater unfortunately. Um, but the movie theater is one of the last bastions of of a is one of the last bastions of of a is one of the last bastions of of a focused entertainment where we make a focused entertainment where we make a focused entertainment where we make a deal with ourselves before we go there, deal with ourselves before we go there, deal with ourselves before we go there, before we leave our homes. We make a before we leave our homes. We make a before we leave our homes. We make a deal with ourselves that for 2 or 3 deal with ourselves that for 2 or 3 deal with ourselves that for 2 or 3 hours we're going to be undistracted hours we're going to be undistracted hours we're going to be undistracted and then all of a sudden it's like the and then all of a sudden it's like the and then all of a sudden it's like the world goes away and you're on that world goes away and you're on that world goes away and you're on that journey and nothing else matters for journey and nothing else matters for journey and nothing else matters for that brief period of time. And I think that brief period of time. And I think that brief period of time. And I think that's the the real magic of the that's the the real magic of the that's the the real magic of the theatrical experience. And it boils down theatrical experience. And it boils down theatrical experience. And it boils down to one simple thing. to one simple thing. to one simple thing. >> You don't have a remote. >> You don't have a remote. >> You don't have a remote. >> It's that simple. You can't pause it. >> It's that simple. You can't pause it. >> It's that simple. You can't pause it. >> You can't go order a pizza. You can't >> You can't go order a pizza. You can't >> You can't go order a pizza. You can't pause it, go to the bathroom. You can't pause it, go to the bathroom. You can't pause it, go to the bathroom. You can't be in a room with other family members be in a room with other family members be in a room with other family members who are talking and you pause it so you who are talking and you pause it so you who are talking and you pause it so you can hear the lame comment. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> I'm kidding. The kids don't make lame >> I'm kidding. The kids don't make lame >> I'm kidding. The kids don't make lame comments, but they do comment during the comments, but they do comment during the comments, but they do comment during the movie and I'll pause it and I'm like, movie and I'll pause it and I'm like, movie and I'll pause it and I'm like, "Yes, you were saying. "Yes, you were saying. "Yes, you were saying. >> That's so funny. Do they Do the kids >> That's so funny. Do they Do the kids >> That's so funny. Do they Do the kids ever look at the movies and go, "Dad, ever look at the movies and go, "Dad, ever look at the movies and go, "Dad, you just made a character out of me." you just made a character out of me." you just made a character out of me." Like, is there ever that? Like, is there ever that? Like, is there ever that? >> I think they see that there was a moment >> I think they see that there was a moment >> I think they see that there was a moment in time 10 years ago where who I in time 10 years ago where who I in time 10 years ago where who I believed they were influenced the believed they were influenced the believed they were influenced the creation of a character. But they but I creation of a character. But they but I creation of a character. But they but I think for them it's all a big laugh think for them it's all a big laugh think for them it's all a big laugh because they say two things. One is that because they say two things. One is that because they say two things. One is that was 10 years ago and two even then you was 10 years ago and two even then you was 10 years ago and two even then you didn't really know who I was. didn't really know who I was. didn't really know who I was. >> That's brilliant. I want to come back to >> That's brilliant. I want to come back to >> That's brilliant. I want to come back to depth of character but I wanted to talk depth of character but I wanted to talk depth of character but I wanted to talk about failure because you've told this about failure because you've told this about failure because you've told this story before but the part I wanted to story before but the part I wanted to story before but the part I wanted to ask about was before you made Terminator ask about was before you made Terminator ask about was before you made Terminator you actually lost a job. you actually lost a job. you actually lost a job. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And we won't we won't mention the film >> And we won't we won't mention the film >> And we won't we won't mention the film because I heard you didn't mention it. because I heard you didn't mention it. because I heard you didn't mention it. But but like for anyone who's finally But but like for anyone who's finally But but like for anyone who's finally found their way, you went from truck found their way, you went from truck found their way, you went from truck driver, starting to make films, made driver, starting to make films, made driver, starting to make films, made this small movie, this small movie, this small movie, >> you get fired off a job. >> you get fired off a job. >> you get fired off a job. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That almost feels like, all right, well, >> That almost feels like, all right, well, >> That almost feels like, all right, well, this is the end of the road. You You this is the end of the road. You You this is the end of the road. You You said you felt that way. said you felt that way. said you felt that way. >> It felt that way. And it felt like there >> It felt that way. And it felt like there >> It felt that way. And it felt like there was going into my first directing gig was going into my first directing gig was going into my first directing gig that I did get fired off of after I that I did get fired off of after I that I did get fired off of after I think six or seven days of shooting and think six or seven days of shooting and think six or seven days of shooting and not for incompetence, it turns out. It not for incompetence, it turns out. It not for incompetence, it turns out. It turns out that I was being set up the turns out that I was being set up the turns out that I was being set up the whole time. And when I found that out whole time. And when I found that out whole time. And when I found that out later, it sort of put it in perspective. later, it sort of put it in perspective. later, it sort of put it in perspective. But I believed at the time, I But I believed at the time, I But I believed at the time, I internalized that I was not doing it internalized that I was not doing it internalized that I was not doing it well, you know, and I thought, "Oh crap, well, you know, and I thought, "Oh crap, well, you know, and I thought, "Oh crap, now I'm worse off than if I hadn't taken now I'm worse off than if I hadn't taken now I'm worse off than if I hadn't taken the job in the first place. Now I'm at the job in the first place. Now I'm at the job in the first place. Now I'm at -10. I could have just been at zero. Now -10. I could have just been at zero. Now -10. I could have just been at zero. Now I have to dig out of a hole to get to I have to dig out of a hole to get to I have to dig out of a hole to get to zero, zero, zero, >> you know. Um, and so then I knew I had >> you know. Um, and so then I knew I had >> you know. Um, and so then I knew I had to do something extraordinary or to do something extraordinary or to do something extraordinary or something different. I couldn't wait for something different. I couldn't wait for something different. I couldn't wait for a directing gig to come to me. I had to a directing gig to come to me. I had to a directing gig to come to me. I had to create it for myself. And that's when I create it for myself. And that's when I create it for myself. And that's when I wrote The Terminator. I thought, I have wrote The Terminator. I thought, I have wrote The Terminator. I thought, I have to write something original, something to write something original, something to write something original, something that I could plausibly make that that I could plausibly make that that I could plausibly make that wouldn't have an enormous budget. And it wouldn't have an enormous budget. And it wouldn't have an enormous budget. And it was scaled to, you know, conventional was scaled to, you know, conventional was scaled to, you know, conventional locations, present day city streets, locations, present day city streets, locations, present day city streets, that sort of thing, so that we could do that sort of thing, so that we could do that sort of thing, so that we could do it relatively cheaply. But I but I also it relatively cheaply. But I but I also it relatively cheaply. But I but I also thought, all right, but I've got to thought, all right, but I've got to thought, all right, but I've got to inject into it. It can't just be, you inject into it. It can't just be, you inject into it. It can't just be, you know, uh, a simple drama. I've got to know, uh, a simple drama. I've got to know, uh, a simple drama. I've got to inject into it something that I bring my inject into it something that I bring my inject into it something that I bring my as expertise. So my expertise was in as expertise. So my expertise was in as expertise. So my expertise was in design and in visual effects. I thought design and in visual effects. I thought design and in visual effects. I thought all right so I've got to create a all right so I've got to create a all right so I've got to create a careful balance here. The visual effects careful balance here. The visual effects careful balance here. The visual effects have to be very limited but they have to have to be very limited but they have to have to be very limited but they have to be powerful so that there so that it's be powerful so that there so that it's be powerful so that there so that it's not a ridiculous budget like a Star Wars not a ridiculous budget like a Star Wars not a ridiculous budget like a Star Wars movie that I knew we couldn't afford or movie that I knew we couldn't afford or movie that I knew we couldn't afford or nobody would hire me for. So then I came nobody would hire me for. So then I came nobody would hire me for. So then I came up with the idea of a futuristic up with the idea of a futuristic up with the idea of a futuristic technology that gets injected into the technology that gets injected into the technology that gets injected into the present day time travel, right? So there present day time travel, right? So there present day time travel, right? So there was a a logic to the the story elements was a a logic to the the story elements was a a logic to the the story elements that I was playing with that was based that I was playing with that was based that I was playing with that was based entirely on being practical and trying entirely on being practical and trying entirely on being practical and trying to get a gig. So would I have come up to get a gig. So would I have come up to get a gig. So would I have come up with that story if I didn't have those with that story if I didn't have those with that story if I didn't have those constraints? I don't know. Maybe not, constraints? I don't know. Maybe not, constraints? I don't know. Maybe not, you know, but it all worked out. Um, so you know, but it all worked out. Um, so you know, but it all worked out. Um, so I thought, all right, I want this I thought, all right, I want this I thought, all right, I want this extraordinary thing that requires, you extraordinary thing that requires, you extraordinary thing that requires, you know, animation and and design, this know, animation and and design, this know, animation and and design, this Terminator, but I'll have it come from Terminator, but I'll have it come from Terminator, but I'll have it come from the future, which I don't have to see, the future, which I don't have to see, the future, which I don't have to see, and I'll just see present day. You know, and I'll just see present day. You know, and I'll just see present day. You know, we could just use available light, we could just use available light, we could just use available light, street lighting, and and that that sort street lighting, and and that that sort street lighting, and and that that sort of thing, which is kind of how we did of thing, which is kind of how we did of thing, which is kind of how we did it. it. it. >> That that's such a fascinating point you >> That that's such a fascinating point you >> That that's such a fascinating point you just made though, that constraints just made though, that constraints just made though, that constraints actually led actually led actually led >> to brilliant creativity. >> to brilliant creativity. >> to brilliant creativity. >> It wasn't the other way around. And >> It wasn't the other way around. And >> It wasn't the other way around. And often we get lost in the trap of when I often we get lost in the trap of when I often we get lost in the trap of when I have resources, right? have resources, right? have resources, right? >> I'll make a masterpiece and you made >> I'll make a masterpiece and you made >> I'll make a masterpiece and you made something that's timeless. something that's timeless. something that's timeless. >> Yeah, that's really good. I mean, you >> Yeah, that's really good. I mean, you >> Yeah, that's really good. I mean, you know, the resources will come eventually know, the resources will come eventually know, the resources will come eventually and that brings its own curse because and that brings its own curse because and that brings its own curse because now you can do anything. now you can do anything. now you can do anything. >> And when you have infinite choice, you >> And when you have infinite choice, you >> And when you have infinite choice, you could get paralyzed, right? And and an could get paralyzed, right? And and an could get paralyzed, right? And and an Avatar movie is an exercise in limiting Avatar movie is an exercise in limiting Avatar movie is an exercise in limiting choice because when you work with choice because when you work with choice because when you work with performance capture, I get a great performance capture, I get a great performance capture, I get a great performance, but then I can put the performance, but then I can put the performance, but then I can put the camera anywhere I want. I could cut it camera anywhere I want. I could cut it camera anywhere I want. I could cut it anywhere I want. I'm not constrained by anywhere I want. I'm not constrained by anywhere I want. I'm not constrained by just the footage that we were able to just the footage that we were able to just the footage that we were able to grab that day before the sun set. It grab that day before the sun set. It grab that day before the sun set. It becomes a kind of a problem of infinite becomes a kind of a problem of infinite becomes a kind of a problem of infinite choice. I think it makes makes you a choice. I think it makes makes you a choice. I think it makes makes you a better filmmaker cuz now why is the better filmmaker cuz now why is the better filmmaker cuz now why is the camera going right here? Not because camera going right here? Not because camera going right here? Not because that's the farthest back I can move that's the farthest back I can move that's the farthest back I can move before my ass hits the wall and that's before my ass hits the wall and that's before my ass hits the wall and that's the widest shot I can do. Why is it here the widest shot I can do. Why is it here the widest shot I can do. Why is it here and not back there or not over there, and not back there or not over there, and not back there or not over there, you know? And so you it it forces you to you know? And so you it it forces you to you know? And so you it it forces you to become quite rigorous about your become quite rigorous about your become quite rigorous about your aesthetic. You know, that's a separate aesthetic. You know, that's a separate aesthetic. You know, that's a separate problem from getting great performance, problem from getting great performance, problem from getting great performance, by the way. And the weird thing about an by the way. And the weird thing about an by the way. And the weird thing about an Avatar movie, it's a little weird, is we Avatar movie, it's a little weird, is we Avatar movie, it's a little weird, is we separate performance from separate performance from separate performance from cinematography. We do all the cinematography. We do all the cinematography. We do all the cinematography later. cinematography later. cinematography later. >> I don't even think about it. I don't >> I don't even think about it. I don't >> I don't even think about it. I don't think about the camera angles when I'm think about the camera angles when I'm think about the camera angles when I'm working with the actors. I know I'll be working with the actors. I know I'll be working with the actors. I know I'll be able to shoot it. I don't know exactly able to shoot it. I don't know exactly able to shoot it. I don't know exactly how I'll shoot it, but I'm just I just how I'll shoot it, but I'm just I just how I'll shoot it, but I'm just I just care about the heart and soul and the care about the heart and soul and the care about the heart and soul and the authenticity of the moment authenticity of the moment authenticity of the moment >> with the actors. Now I'm done with them. >> with the actors. Now I'm done with them. >> with the actors. Now I'm done with them. Now they're all working on another Now they're all working on another Now they're all working on another movie. Now it's like, okay, am I on a movie. Now it's like, okay, am I on a movie. Now it's like, okay, am I on a wide shot, close shot? Am I on a long wide shot, close shot? Am I on a long wide shot, close shot? Am I on a long lens, short lens? Is the camera moving? lens, short lens? Is the camera moving? lens, short lens? Is the camera moving? Is it still? Is it raining? Is it not? Is it still? Is it raining? Is it not? Is it still? Is it raining? Is it not? You know, is it night? Is it day? You You know, is it night? Is it day? You You know, is it night? Is it day? You can make all those decisions later with can make all those decisions later with can make all those decisions later with that nucleus, that sort of beating heart that nucleus, that sort of beating heart that nucleus, that sort of beating heart of the performance, but you can of the performance, but you can of the performance, but you can interpret it many many different ways. interpret it many many different ways. interpret it many many different ways. So that that idea of, you know, infinite So that that idea of, you know, infinite So that that idea of, you know, infinite choice, it can be paralyzing or it can choice, it can be paralyzing or it can choice, it can be paralyzing or it can make you more rigorous and and it forces make you more rigorous and and it forces make you more rigorous and and it forces you to define to yourself and to the you to define to yourself and to the you to define to yourself and to the others you're working with, other others you're working with, other others you're working with, other editors, other designers, um, why you're editors, other designers, um, why you're editors, other designers, um, why you're doing it that way. And sometimes I just doing it that way. And sometimes I just doing it that way. And sometimes I just I just talk. It's like, "Okay, good." I just talk. It's like, "Okay, good." I just talk. It's like, "Okay, good." You know, it's like I'll talk while I'm You know, it's like I'll talk while I'm You know, it's like I'll talk while I'm working. It's like, "Okay, I can be working. It's like, "Okay, I can be working. It's like, "Okay, I can be here. I can be there. I can put the here. I can be there. I can put the here. I can be there. I can put the camera here. What do you guys think?" camera here. What do you guys think?" camera here. What do you guys think?" You know, and they're like, "Well, I You know, and they're like, "Well, I You know, and they're like, "Well, I like the water shot." It's like, "Okay, like the water shot." It's like, "Okay, like the water shot." It's like, "Okay, let's do the water shot." It gets more let's do the water shot." It gets more let's do the water shot." It gets more inclusive in a way. Not that I'm inclusive in a way. Not that I'm inclusive in a way. Not that I'm doubting myself, but it's like, why not? doubting myself, but it's like, why not? doubting myself, but it's like, why not? Why wouldn't you be inclusive? Why wouldn't you be inclusive? Why wouldn't you be inclusive? >> Yeah, absolutely. And and you were so >> Yeah, absolutely. And and you were so >> Yeah, absolutely. And and you were so committed to that that you sold it for committed to that that you sold it for committed to that that you sold it for $1 and rejected all of these amazing $1 and rejected all of these amazing $1 and rejected all of these amazing studio budgets because they wouldn't let studio budgets because they wouldn't let studio budgets because they wouldn't let you direct it. This is going back to the you direct it. This is going back to the you direct it. This is going back to the Terminator and you're talking about the Terminator and you're talking about the Terminator and you're talking about the fact that I I made a right deal with fact that I I made a right deal with fact that I I made a right deal with Gail Anne Herurd who was another Gail Anne Herurd who was another Gail Anne Herurd who was another upandcomer in the same super low tier as upandcomer in the same super low tier as upandcomer in the same super low tier as I was. And uh you know she had the eye I was. And uh you know she had the eye I was. And uh you know she had the eye of the tiger and I recognized in her the of the tiger and I recognized in her the of the tiger and I recognized in her the same thing she recognized in me, which same thing she recognized in me, which same thing she recognized in me, which is that we could we could get this done. is that we could we could get this done. is that we could we could get this done. We could make something happen together. We could make something happen together. We could make something happen together. And so I sold her the rights for a And so I sold her the rights for a And so I sold her the rights for a dollar in exchange for a promise. And dollar in exchange for a promise. And dollar in exchange for a promise. And that promise was worth a lot more than a that promise was worth a lot more than a that promise was worth a lot more than a dollar to me, which was you will never dollar to me, which was you will never dollar to me, which was you will never proceed with this movie. I mean, I could proceed with this movie. I mean, I could proceed with this movie. I mean, I could have written a 20page contract to do it. have written a 20page contract to do it. have written a 20page contract to do it. Uh, but it was like a blood oath almost Uh, but it was like a blood oath almost Uh, but it was like a blood oath almost literally. I don't think we actually cut literally. I don't think we actually cut literally. I don't think we actually cut our hands, but it was pretty much that. our hands, but it was pretty much that. our hands, but it was pretty much that. And uh, and this is before we were And uh, and this is before we were And uh, and this is before we were romantically involved. This was just us, romantically involved. This was just us, romantically involved. This was just us, you know, a nent producer and a nent you know, a nent producer and a nent you know, a nent producer and a nent director. I said, 'You will never make director. I said, 'You will never make director. I said, 'You will never make this movie without me as a director, and this movie without me as a director, and this movie without me as a director, and I will never make this movie without you I will never make this movie without you I will never make this movie without you as the producer. And man, they tried to as the producer. And man, they tried to as the producer. And man, they tried to split that team. They tried to get her split that team. They tried to get her split that team. They tried to get her in the rights and and not and get in the rights and and not and get in the rights and and not and get another director, you know, and there another director, you know, and there another director, you know, and there were times when when Gail was beating were times when when Gail was beating were times when when Gail was beating them up so much on the budget, they took them up so much on the budget, they took them up so much on the budget, they took me aside and said, "Look, we'll make the me aside and said, "Look, we'll make the me aside and said, "Look, we'll make the movie with you, but we got to get rid of movie with you, but we got to get rid of movie with you, but we got to get rid of her." And I'm like, "Nope, that ain't her." And I'm like, "Nope, that ain't her." And I'm like, "Nope, that ain't going to happen." And she said, "Nope, going to happen." And she said, "Nope, going to happen." And she said, "Nope, that ain't going to happen." So, in a that ain't going to happen." So, in a that ain't going to happen." So, in a way, everything else flowed from that way, everything else flowed from that way, everything else flowed from that that first film. And so that was, you that first film. And so that was, you that first film. And so that was, you know, that was a dollar well spent. know, that was a dollar well spent. know, that was a dollar well spent. >> Yeah, that's that's I love that story. >> Yeah, that's that's I love that story. >> Yeah, that's that's I love that story. It just every time I hear you tell it It just every time I hear you tell it It just every time I hear you tell it from when I was doing research and from when I was doing research and from when I was doing research and listening to you tell it and even listening to you tell it and even listening to you tell it and even hearing it now, I'm just like there's hearing it now, I'm just like there's hearing it now, I'm just like there's such a today there's such a fixation on such a today there's such a fixation on such a today there's such a fixation on getting what you deserve. getting what you deserve. getting what you deserve. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And demanding what you deserve. And I >> And demanding what you deserve. And I >> And demanding what you deserve. And I think sometimes it sets you up for think sometimes it sets you up for think sometimes it sets you up for failure because you could be waiting a failure because you could be waiting a failure because you could be waiting a long time for someone to give you what long time for someone to give you what long time for someone to give you what you deserve. your career is this you deserve. your career is this you deserve. your career is this constant, well, I'll build what I constant, well, I'll build what I constant, well, I'll build what I deserve or I'll I'll take it myself. deserve or I'll I'll take it myself. deserve or I'll I'll take it myself. >> The simple answer is you don't deserve >> The simple answer is you don't deserve >> The simple answer is you don't deserve anything. It's just a question of what anything. It's just a question of what anything. It's just a question of what you can negotiate for yourself and what you can negotiate for yourself and what you can negotiate for yourself and what you can prove prove to the world, you you can prove prove to the world, you you can prove prove to the world, you know, that you're you're capable of, know, that you're you're capable of, know, that you're you're capable of, right? And then and then all then the right? And then and then all then the right? And then and then all then the money will flow from that and the you money will flow from that and the you money will flow from that and the you know, all of those things will flow from know, all of those things will flow from know, all of those things will flow from that. I never was in it for the money in that. I never was in it for the money in that. I never was in it for the money in a sense. I'm still not, you know, uh a sense. I'm still not, you know, uh a sense. I'm still not, you know, uh it's a consequence of doing the job well it's a consequence of doing the job well it's a consequence of doing the job well and reaching people and communicating, and reaching people and communicating, and reaching people and communicating, you know. Um I am a commercial you know. Um I am a commercial you know. Um I am a commercial filmmaker. I don't try to do something filmmaker. I don't try to do something filmmaker. I don't try to do something that's intentionally obscure or that's intentionally obscure or that's intentionally obscure or intentionally so kind of uh intellectual intentionally so kind of uh intellectual intentionally so kind of uh intellectual that you know that it doesn't connect that you know that it doesn't connect that you know that it doesn't connect for the majority of the audience. I'm a for the majority of the audience. I'm a for the majority of the audience. I'm a bell curve guy. You know, it's like I bell curve guy. You know, it's like I bell curve guy. You know, it's like I want to I want to hit that sweet spot in want to I want to hit that sweet spot in want to I want to hit that sweet spot in the middle of the bell curve where the the middle of the bell curve where the the middle of the bell curve where the where I'm communicating with the where I'm communicating with the where I'm communicating with the greatest number of people. And there greatest number of people. And there greatest number of people. And there will be some people for whom it is it is will be some people for whom it is it is will be some people for whom it is it is beneath them to even consider enjoying beneath them to even consider enjoying beneath them to even consider enjoying an an Avatar movie. And there are some an an Avatar movie. And there are some an an Avatar movie. And there are some people that just don't get it on the on people that just don't get it on the on people that just don't get it on the on the other end. You know what I mean? But the other end. You know what I mean? But the other end. You know what I mean? But I'm I'm I'm looking at that bell curve. I'm I'm I'm looking at that bell curve. I'm I'm I'm looking at that bell curve. And I think there are some filmmakers And I think there are some filmmakers And I think there are some filmmakers that that want to indicate that they're that that want to indicate that they're that that want to indicate that they're smarter than the audience and challenge smarter than the audience and challenge smarter than the audience and challenge them to try to keep up and piouette them to try to keep up and piouette them to try to keep up and piouette their intelligence. Um, not to say their intelligence. Um, not to say their intelligence. Um, not to say they're not intelligent, but they're not intelligent, but they're not intelligent, but >> come on guys, that's entertainment. You >> come on guys, that's entertainment. You >> come on guys, that's entertainment. You know, it can have deeper meaning. I know, it can have deeper meaning. I know, it can have deeper meaning. I mean, I I like to have thematic mean, I I like to have thematic mean, I I like to have thematic layering, you know, and I like to have layering, you know, and I like to have layering, you know, and I like to have things that mean something to me, and if things that mean something to me, and if things that mean something to me, and if people pick up on it, great. But I won't people pick up on it, great. But I won't people pick up on it, great. But I won't make the story hinge on that, make the story hinge on that, make the story hinge on that, >> you know. Um, so I don't know. I may >> you know. Um, so I don't know. I may >> you know. Um, so I don't know. I may maybe it's that drive-in movie, you maybe it's that drive-in movie, you maybe it's that drive-in movie, you know, college of cinematic knowledge know, college of cinematic knowledge know, college of cinematic knowledge that the drive-in movie theaters of that the drive-in movie theaters of that the drive-in movie theaters of Orange County paying off, you know. Orange County paying off, you know. Orange County paying off, you know. >> I I feel like everyone looks at you and >> I I feel like everyone looks at you and >> I I feel like everyone looks at you and even these examples you're talking even these examples you're talking even these examples you're talking about, there's such a people would say, about, there's such a people would say, about, there's such a people would say, you know, James Cameron's a risk taker. you know, James Cameron's a risk taker. you know, James Cameron's a risk taker. He takes big risks and but do you see He takes big risks and but do you see He takes big risks and but do you see yourself that way? How do how do you I yourself that way? How do how do you I yourself that way? How do how do you I feel like it's something more than that. feel like it's something more than that. feel like it's something more than that. Well, I think I think it's not a Well, I think I think it's not a Well, I think I think it's not a question of taking risk for risk's sake, question of taking risk for risk's sake, question of taking risk for risk's sake, but I do think the biggest risk as an but I do think the biggest risk as an but I do think the biggest risk as an artist is to not take risks because then artist is to not take risks because then artist is to not take risks because then you're just doing what you've done and you're just doing what you've done and you're just doing what you've done and what you know and andor what other what you know and andor what other what you know and andor what other people have done, which is even worse, people have done, which is even worse, people have done, which is even worse, you know, just in being in a in a kind you know, just in being in a in a kind you know, just in being in a in a kind of a comfort zone of mediocrity. Um, so of a comfort zone of mediocrity. Um, so of a comfort zone of mediocrity. Um, so yeah, I think I think you do take risks, yeah, I think I think you do take risks, yeah, I think I think you do take risks, but having taken that risk, you then do but having taken that risk, you then do but having taken that risk, you then do everything within your power to make everything within your power to make everything within your power to make sure that you are communicating that it sure that you are communicating that it sure that you are communicating that it is working. Um, that you're not is working. Um, that you're not is working. Um, that you're not jeopardizing large amounts of other jeopardizing large amounts of other jeopardizing large amounts of other people's money by doing something people's money by doing something people's money by doing something foolish. You know, Titanic was a risk. foolish. You know, Titanic was a risk. foolish. You know, Titanic was a risk. you know, it was a uh very very you know, it was a uh very very you know, it was a uh very very expensive film in which basically expensive film in which basically expensive film in which basically everybody dies, you know, and it was a everybody dies, you know, and it was a everybody dies, you know, and it was a period piece and it was three hours period piece and it was three hours period piece and it was three hours long. The only successful film long. The only successful film long. The only successful film previously that had been 3 hours long previously that had been 3 hours long previously that had been 3 hours long that was a commercial film was uh a best that was a commercial film was uh a best that was a commercial film was uh a best picture winner which was Dances with picture winner which was Dances with picture winner which was Dances with Wolves. Wolves. Wolves. >> I always pronounce it Dances with Wolves >> I always pronounce it Dances with Wolves >> I always pronounce it Dances with Wolves because it was a name, you know. So because it was a name, you know. So because it was a name, you know. So yeah, I always imagine it hyphenated, yeah, I always imagine it hyphenated, yeah, I always imagine it hyphenated, not Dances with Wolves, which is what not Dances with Wolves, which is what not Dances with Wolves, which is what most people say. Um but um and I don't most people say. Um but um and I don't most people say. Um but um and I don't know if that's accurate. I I you know I know if that's accurate. I I you know I know if that's accurate. I I you know I never asked anybody but probably is. Uh never asked anybody but probably is. Uh never asked anybody but probably is. Uh but um and so we were in uncharted but um and so we were in uncharted but um and so we were in uncharted territory. I mean we went in knowing it territory. I mean we went in knowing it territory. I mean we went in knowing it was going to be a long film and that was going to be a long film and that was going to be a long film and that it's a tragic film and that it's a it's a tragic film and that it's a it's a tragic film and that it's a tragic love story. Um pretty risky in a tragic love story. Um pretty risky in a tragic love story. Um pretty risky in a sense. You know it certainly didn't sense. You know it certainly didn't sense. You know it certainly didn't follow any of the commercial paradigms follow any of the commercial paradigms follow any of the commercial paradigms of the time. And we reached a point of the time. And we reached a point of the time. And we reached a point after we went over budget. Even though after we went over budget. Even though after we went over budget. Even though the film was looking pretty good in the the film was looking pretty good in the the film was looking pretty good in the dailies and in the rough cuts, we dailies and in the rough cuts, we dailies and in the rough cuts, we reached a point where the studio was reached a point where the studio was reached a point where the studio was utterly convinced it was only a question utterly convinced it was only a question utterly convinced it was only a question of whether they were going to lose $50 of whether they were going to lose $50 of whether they were going to lose $50 million or $150 million. And they were million or $150 million. And they were million or $150 million. And they were so dead set on an outcome. They almost so dead set on an outcome. They almost so dead set on an outcome. They almost manifested the outcome they dreaded manifested the outcome they dreaded manifested the outcome they dreaded because of their lack of faith in the because of their lack of faith in the because of their lack of faith in the film. I even almost in a way lost faith film. I even almost in a way lost faith film. I even almost in a way lost faith in the film being commercial, but I in the film being commercial, but I in the film being commercial, but I never lost faith in it being never lost faith in it being never lost faith in it being artistically correct. artistically correct. artistically correct. >> And that's when I it's the story's been >> And that's when I it's the story's been >> And that's when I it's the story's been told, but it's actually true. I told, but it's actually true. I told, but it's actually true. I literally had a razor blade taped to my literally had a razor blade taped to my literally had a razor blade taped to my Avid screen with a little sign that Avid screen with a little sign that Avid screen with a little sign that said, "Use in case film sucks." Cuz I said, "Use in case film sucks." Cuz I said, "Use in case film sucks." Cuz I knew that the only way out of this was knew that the only way out of this was knew that the only way out of this was through. And the only way through was to through. And the only way through was to through. And the only way through was to make the best possible movie you could make the best possible movie you could make the best possible movie you could make. Even if I didn't make a dime off make. Even if I didn't make a dime off make. Even if I didn't make a dime off it, even if it failed commercially, it it, even if it failed commercially, it it, even if it failed commercially, it had to be good and it had to deliver on had to be good and it had to deliver on had to be good and it had to deliver on on those artistic principles that we on those artistic principles that we on those artistic principles that we went in with. I knew I had a great cast. went in with. I knew I had a great cast. went in with. I knew I had a great cast. I had great performances, you know, and I had great performances, you know, and I had great performances, you know, and it turned out uh from from the moment it turned out uh from from the moment it turned out uh from from the moment James her played the first he had he James her played the first he had he James her played the first he had he wrote three themes and just reiterated wrote three themes and just reiterated wrote three themes and just reiterated them throughout the score. He wrote them throughout the score. He wrote them throughout the score. He wrote three themes and he played them for me three themes and he played them for me three themes and he played them for me on his piano in March of 1997. And on his piano in March of 1997. And on his piano in March of 1997. And that's when I knew I had a movie because that's when I knew I had a movie because that's when I knew I had a movie because I cried on all three themes. I cried on all three themes. I cried on all three themes. >> First one, it was just like, "Holy [ __ ] >> First one, it was just like, "Holy [ __ ] >> First one, it was just like, "Holy [ __ ] dude. It's amazing." You know, and I dude. It's amazing." You know, and I dude. It's amazing." You know, and I said, "We've got a score." He said, "I said, "We've got a score." He said, "I said, "We've got a score." He said, "I haven't written the score yet." I said, haven't written the score yet." I said, haven't written the score yet." I said, "We've got a score." And I wasn't wrong. "We've got a score." And I wasn't wrong. "We've got a score." And I wasn't wrong. Uh I knew from that moment that it was Uh I knew from that moment that it was Uh I knew from that moment that it was going to be great. And yeah, sure. He he going to be great. And yeah, sure. He he going to be great. And yeah, sure. He he he wrote it. He orchestrated it. He went he wrote it. He orchestrated it. He went he wrote it. He orchestrated it. He went out, he recorded it with a 100 piece out, he recorded it with a 100 piece out, he recorded it with a 100 piece orchestra. But I knew from that simple orchestra. But I knew from that simple orchestra. But I knew from that simple piano melody that we were good. And uh piano melody that we were good. And uh piano melody that we were good. And uh and I think at that point I started to and I think at that point I started to and I think at that point I started to have some faith that the movie itself have some faith that the movie itself have some faith that the movie itself would deliver on what I intended it to would deliver on what I intended it to would deliver on what I intended it to deliver. You know, there's a funny point deliver. You know, there's a funny point deliver. You know, there's a funny point in movies. It's okay if I just kind of in movies. It's okay if I just kind of in movies. It's okay if I just kind of >> I love it. Please. That's my favorite >> I love it. Please. That's my favorite >> I love it. Please. That's my favorite bit of podcast. bit of podcast. bit of podcast. >> There's a certain point in making a >> There's a certain point in making a >> There's a certain point in making a movie where it's not your movie anymore. movie where it's not your movie anymore. movie where it's not your movie anymore. I think it's my movie when I write it. I I think it's my movie when I write it. I I think it's my movie when I write it. I think the second I cast it, it's not my think the second I cast it, it's not my think the second I cast it, it's not my movie anymore. And the second I'm movie anymore. And the second I'm movie anymore. And the second I'm working with designers and we're working with designers and we're working with designers and we're building sets and all that, now it's got building sets and all that, now it's got building sets and all that, now it's got its own momentum. It's got its own life. its own momentum. It's got its own life. its own momentum. It's got its own life. And there's a point in post-prouction And there's a point in post-prouction And there's a point in post-prouction where it's being received. And I don't where it's being received. And I don't where it's being received. And I don't mean that necessarily in a mystical way, mean that necessarily in a mystical way, mean that necessarily in a mystical way, although it might be. I don't know. Um although it might be. I don't know. Um although it might be. I don't know. Um but um it's being received from the but um it's being received from the but um it's being received from the group's creative energy, what the actors group's creative energy, what the actors group's creative energy, what the actors did, what the designers did, what the did, what the designers did, what the did, what the designers did, what the camera operator did, um you know, what camera operator did, um you know, what camera operator did, um you know, what the DP did. And it's just up to me to to the DP did. And it's just up to me to to the DP did. And it's just up to me to to to see it and see it emerging and then to see it and see it emerging and then to see it and see it emerging and then help assist, you know, clear clear the help assist, you know, clear clear the help assist, you know, clear clear the debris out of the way, get it to to kind debris out of the way, get it to to kind debris out of the way, get it to to kind of emerge. And and I felt that more so, of emerge. And and I felt that more so, of emerge. And and I felt that more so, especially on these last two Avatar especially on these last two Avatar especially on these last two Avatar films, than I've ever felt before. You films, than I've ever felt before. You films, than I've ever felt before. You got a long film, it's half an hour got a long film, it's half an hour got a long film, it's half an hour longer than it could be. You've got to longer than it could be. You've got to longer than it could be. You've got to take stuff out. So, you're pairing away take stuff out. So, you're pairing away take stuff out. So, you're pairing away and and themes are emerging and getting and and themes are emerging and getting and and themes are emerging and getting stronger. And it even got quite snaky on stronger. And it even got quite snaky on stronger. And it even got quite snaky on this last one because I felt the themes this last one because I felt the themes this last one because I felt the themes emerging so strongly that I actually emerging so strongly that I actually emerging so strongly that I actually wrote new scenes and asked the actress wrote new scenes and asked the actress wrote new scenes and asked the actress to come back and reshaped the whole to come back and reshaped the whole to come back and reshaped the whole thing. For example, there was a scene in thing. For example, there was a scene in thing. For example, there was a scene in the script which we captured where Jake the script which we captured where Jake the script which we captured where Jake teaches all the Na'vi how to fire teaches all the Na'vi how to fire teaches all the Na'vi how to fire machine guns. I was wrong. I didn't want machine guns. I was wrong. I didn't want machine guns. I was wrong. I didn't want that's not what the movie was supposed that's not what the movie was supposed that's not what the movie was supposed to be saying. And so the power, the dark to be saying. And so the power, the dark to be saying. And so the power, the dark grim power that comes from when Coror grim power that comes from when Coror grim power that comes from when Coror arms the Ash people arms the Ash people arms the Ash people >> and you see them lift those weapons up >> and you see them lift those weapons up >> and you see them lift those weapons up and you say, "Oh my god, this whole and you say, "Oh my god, this whole and you say, "Oh my god, this whole thing's going wrong." thing's going wrong." thing's going wrong." >> I can't have Jake be doing the same >> I can't have Jake be doing the same >> I can't have Jake be doing the same thing. But I somehow I didn't see that thing. But I somehow I didn't see that thing. But I somehow I didn't see that in the writing, but I saw it as it was in the writing, but I saw it as it was in the writing, but I saw it as it was unveiling itself to me. And I called unveiling itself to me. And I called unveiling itself to me. And I called everybody back in. I said, "Guys, you everybody back in. I said, "Guys, you everybody back in. I said, "Guys, you got to come back." Um, and the beauty of got to come back." Um, and the beauty of got to come back." Um, and the beauty of performance capture is you can recreate performance capture is you can recreate performance capture is you can recreate the set almost instantly in like an the set almost instantly in like an the set almost instantly in like an hour. hour. hour. >> So, we just were able to go back into >> So, we just were able to go back into >> So, we just were able to go back into it. And I did something else instead, it. And I did something else instead, it. And I did something else instead, which is I had Jake go get the the touk, which is I had Jake go get the the touk, which is I had Jake go get the the touk, which was also not in the script. which was also not in the script. which was also not in the script. >> Ah, >> Ah, >> Ah, >> but when you see it, you think, how >> but when you see it, you think, how >> but when you see it, you think, how could that not could that not could that not that's one of the most epic moments of that's one of the most epic moments of that's one of the most epic moments of the whole the whole the whole >> Exactly. Well, I had put that in movie >> Exactly. Well, I had put that in movie >> Exactly. Well, I had put that in movie four, but I realized I was playing too four, but I realized I was playing too four, but I realized I was playing too long a game, you know, and you know, the long a game, you know, and you know, the long a game, you know, and you know, the scene with with him and Spider, which I scene with with him and Spider, which I scene with with him and Spider, which I won't go into the details of, but after won't go into the details of, but after won't go into the details of, but after that, that, that, >> you know, when Nikki says, "Then we will >> you know, when Nikki says, "Then we will >> you know, when Nikki says, "Then we will find another way." That's the only way find another way." That's the only way find another way." That's the only way he's got left is to do the thing he's got left is to do the thing he's got left is to do the thing >> that he dreads the most. >> that he dreads the most. >> that he dreads the most. >> Yes. Yes. >> Yes. Yes. >> Yes. Yes. >> That he absolutely knows will take >> That he absolutely knows will take >> That he absolutely knows will take something out of his soul. something out of his soul. something out of his soul. >> Uh but he has to do it. It's the only >> Uh but he has to do it. It's the only >> Uh but he has to do it. It's the only other way. And so, you know, sacrifice other way. And so, you know, sacrifice other way. And so, you know, sacrifice is a theme that I deal with a lot. Duty, is a theme that I deal with a lot. Duty, is a theme that I deal with a lot. Duty, cuz you can't have love without the fear cuz you can't have love without the fear cuz you can't have love without the fear of death, the fear of loss, uh without of death, the fear of loss, uh without of death, the fear of loss, uh without the need for sacrifice, without a sense the need for sacrifice, without a sense the need for sacrifice, without a sense of duty. What will you do to to prove of duty. What will you do to to prove of duty. What will you do to to prove yourself in a loving relationship, you yourself in a loving relationship, you yourself in a loving relationship, you know, played with that on Titanic, know, played with that on Titanic, know, played with that on Titanic, played with that on Aliens, you know, played with that on Aliens, you know, played with that on Aliens, you know, played with that on Terminator 2, right? played with that on Terminator 2, right? played with that on Terminator 2, right? And so these the these last two Avatar And so these the these last two Avatar And so these the these last two Avatar films are the the same thing. What would films are the the same thing. What would films are the the same thing. What would Jake and Niri do for their children? Uh Jake and Niri do for their children? Uh Jake and Niri do for their children? Uh what would they do for their people? And what would they do for their people? And what would they do for their people? And what happens when what is right for the what happens when what is right for the what happens when what is right for the children is not right for the people? If children is not right for the people? If children is not right for the people? If you're if the right thing is to go to you're if the right thing is to go to you're if the right thing is to go to war and I know that you you're you're war and I know that you you're you're war and I know that you you're you're all about peace and and purpose and all all about peace and and purpose and all all about peace and and purpose and all of that. And I agree with all of those of that. And I agree with all of those of that. And I agree with all of those things cuz I think empathy is our great things cuz I think empathy is our great things cuz I think empathy is our great human superpower which will get us human superpower which will get us human superpower which will get us through this somehow. Um but I do through this somehow. Um but I do through this somehow. Um but I do believe there are times when you do have believe there are times when you do have believe there are times when you do have to fight. I'm not a total pacifist. And to fight. I'm not a total pacifist. And to fight. I'm not a total pacifist. And I think I think I think >> uh in my lifetime there has not been a >> uh in my lifetime there has not been a >> uh in my lifetime there has not been a righteous war that the US has been righteous war that the US has been righteous war that the US has been involved in. But World War II when you involved in. But World War II when you involved in. But World War II when you have a predator that's destroying have a predator that's destroying have a predator that's destroying everything that that is of value to everything that that is of value to everything that that is of value to people. Yeah. You have to fight. You people. Yeah. You have to fight. You people. Yeah. You have to fight. You have to fight for your survival. So, and have to fight for your survival. So, and have to fight for your survival. So, and we could have a whole conversation just we could have a whole conversation just we could have a whole conversation just about this. about this. about this. >> I know. I was just about to say that the >> I know. I was just about to say that the >> I know. I was just about to say that the uh Well, I was about to say that uh Well, I was about to say that uh Well, I was about to say that >> I'm flipping the script here, by the >> I'm flipping the script here, by the >> I'm flipping the script here, by the way, in case you didn't notice. way, in case you didn't notice. way, in case you didn't notice. >> No, I was about to say that the >> No, I was about to say that the >> No, I was about to say that the spiritual text that I practice and teach spiritual text that I practice and teach spiritual text that I practice and teach and follow is based on a battlefield. and follow is based on a battlefield. and follow is based on a battlefield. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And it's God or the divine telling the >> And it's God or the divine telling the >> And it's God or the divine telling the greatest archer of his time to pick up greatest archer of his time to pick up greatest archer of his time to pick up his bow and fight. Yeah. his bow and fight. Yeah. his bow and fight. Yeah. >> For righteousness and duty. >> For righteousness and duty. >> For righteousness and duty. >> For righteousness and duty. It's it >> For righteousness and duty. It's it >> For righteousness and duty. It's it makes a lot of it it definitely makes a lot of it it definitely makes a lot of it it definitely resonates what you're saying that there resonates what you're saying that there resonates what you're saying that there is a need. is a need. is a need. >> Yeah. So I'm an action filmmaker. So I'm >> Yeah. So I'm an action filmmaker. So I'm >> Yeah. So I'm an action filmmaker. So I'm you know action I mean if you think you know action I mean if you think you know action I mean if you think about it action is just a candycoded about it action is just a candycoded about it action is just a candycoded term for violence right when it's term for violence right when it's term for violence right when it's righteous violence practiced by the good righteous violence practiced by the good righteous violence practiced by the good guy in in defense of good people and so guy in in defense of good people and so guy in in defense of good people and so on. You know we spend a lot of time on. You know we spend a lot of time on. You know we spend a lot of time justifying it to ourselves. And I think justifying it to ourselves. And I think justifying it to ourselves. And I think a lot of the classic cinematic a lot of the classic cinematic a lot of the classic cinematic justifications aren't really sufficient. justifications aren't really sufficient. justifications aren't really sufficient. Um, which is why I went down the road of Um, which is why I went down the road of Um, which is why I went down the road of having the Tulkun having the Tulkun having the Tulkun >> be utter pacifists where they have >> be utter pacifists where they have >> be utter pacifists where they have rejected any kind of violent um rejected any kind of violent um rejected any kind of violent um confrontation up to and almost including confrontation up to and almost including confrontation up to and almost including their own final destruction. their own final destruction. their own final destruction. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> But they at the very brink they decide >> But they at the very brink they decide >> But they at the very brink they decide that there are there is something that that there are there is something that that there are there is something that they that they have to rise up for. And they that they have to rise up for. And they that they have to rise up for. And when they see the horror of what's when they see the horror of what's when they see the horror of what's what's happened to Tanuk and Pyakon's what's happened to Tanuk and Pyakon's what's happened to Tanuk and Pyakon's clan and all that, which I think is clan and all that, which I think is clan and all that, which I think is quite a heart-wrenching scene, even quite a heart-wrenching scene, even quite a heart-wrenching scene, even though though though >> Oh, that's like Yeah. When you make me >> Oh, that's like Yeah. When you make me >> Oh, that's like Yeah. When you make me feel for Pyon, I'm like, that's like, feel for Pyon, I'm like, that's like, feel for Pyon, I'm like, that's like, >> you know, because now you're not even >> you know, because now you're not even >> you know, because now you're not even >> feeling for something that looks >> feeling for something that looks >> feeling for something that looks remotely human, remotely human, remotely human, >> right? Exactly. But but we're able to >> right? Exactly. But but we're able to >> right? Exactly. But but we're able to see consciousness in in others, in the see consciousness in in others, in the see consciousness in in others, in the eyes, you know, in dogs and eyes, you know, in dogs and eyes, you know, in dogs and >> in in the great apes, you know. I think >> in in the great apes, you know. I think >> in in the great apes, you know. I think it's a little harder in birds, even it's a little harder in birds, even it's a little harder in birds, even though they're pretty damn smart. M though they're pretty damn smart. M though they're pretty damn smart. M >> um whales though have a soulfulness and >> um whales though have a soulfulness and >> um whales though have a soulfulness and maybe maybe to some extent we project it maybe maybe to some extent we project it maybe maybe to some extent we project it on to them but I don't think so there's on to them but I don't think so there's on to them but I don't think so there's something very calm something very calm something very calm >> about whales you know and they they've >> about whales you know and they they've >> about whales you know and they they've they've been greatly injured on our they've been greatly injured on our they've been greatly injured on our planet so I think you know what I was planet so I think you know what I was planet so I think you know what I was trying to express there is look what trying to express there is look what trying to express there is look what we've done to them we've done to them we've done to them >> and they don't seem to hate us >> and they don't seem to hate us >> and they don't seem to hate us >> as much as we would if that was done to >> as much as we would if that was done to >> as much as we would if that was done to us. Um although there are pods of orcas us. Um although there are pods of orcas us. Um although there are pods of orcas near Gibralar and off the Azorus that near Gibralar and off the Azorus that near Gibralar and off the Azorus that are attacking sailboats now and ripping are attacking sailboats now and ripping are attacking sailboats now and ripping the rudders off and leaving them a the rudders off and leaving them a the rudders off and leaving them a drift. drift. drift. >> Um >> Um >> Um >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> So it's like are they learning are they >> So it's like are they learning are they >> So it's like are they learning are they learning that we're actually not so learning that we're actually not so learning that we're actually not so great for them. Yeah. Workers have a great for them. Yeah. Workers have a great for them. Yeah. Workers have a matriarchal society and the mothers matriarchal society and the mothers matriarchal society and the mothers teach the sons teach the sons teach the sons >> behaviors and so the question is is this >> behaviors and so the question is is this >> behaviors and so the question is is this being handed down? because it's been being handed down? because it's been being handed down? because it's been happening a lot in the last few years happening a lot in the last few years happening a lot in the last few years and it's the same group, the territorial and it's the same group, the territorial and it's the same group, the territorial territorial group. So maybe territorial group. So maybe territorial group. So maybe >> all of this you're talking about you >> all of this you're talking about you >> all of this you're talking about you spent around 10 years just studying the spent around 10 years just studying the spent around 10 years just studying the ocean, right? Like if ocean, right? Like if ocean, right? Like if >> while you weren't making films at that >> while you weren't making films at that >> while you weren't making films at that time, you literally went deep into time, you literally went deep into time, you literally went deep into >> literally >> literally >> literally >> everything that you're sharing right >> everything that you're sharing right >> everything that you're sharing right now. It's now. It's now. It's >> I went as deep as you can go. >> I went as deep as you can go. >> I went as deep as you can go. >> Mind blown. Like you did you just put >> Mind blown. Like you did you just put >> Mind blown. Like you did you just put everything else away like everything else away like everything else away like >> Not really. I kind of kept my hand in. >> Not really. I kind of kept my hand in. >> Not really. I kind of kept my hand in. So, so after Titanic was a big hit and I So, so after Titanic was a big hit and I So, so after Titanic was a big hit and I was questioning, you know, is this even was questioning, you know, is this even was questioning, you know, is this even important? Is Hollywood even important? important? Is Hollywood even important? important? Is Hollywood even important? It seems like such a glitzy game and it It seems like such a glitzy game and it It seems like such a glitzy game and it and and it seems kind of quite fatuous and and it seems kind of quite fatuous and and it seems kind of quite fatuous and and at about that time I I wound up and and at about that time I I wound up and and at about that time I I wound up on the NASA advisory council, believe it on the NASA advisory council, believe it on the NASA advisory council, believe it or not. And I looked around a room full or not. And I looked around a room full or not. And I looked around a room full of people who were very uh intelligent, of people who were very uh intelligent, of people who were very uh intelligent, most of them, all of them really, better most of them, all of them really, better most of them, all of them really, better educated than me, with a strong sense of educated than me, with a strong sense of educated than me, with a strong sense of purpose, right? that they were doing purpose, right? that they were doing purpose, right? that they were doing something extraordinary. They were something extraordinary. They were something extraordinary. They were exploring space and none of them cared exploring space and none of them cared exploring space and none of them cared about Hollywood. They didn't even know about Hollywood. They didn't even know about Hollywood. They didn't even know what was happening. They Oh, the Oscars. what was happening. They Oh, the Oscars. what was happening. They Oh, the Oscars. What's that? Oh, yeah. You know, it's What's that? Oh, yeah. You know, it's What's that? Oh, yeah. You know, it's what they And I could name a movie star what they And I could name a movie star what they And I could name a movie star they wouldn't even recognize. I mean, they wouldn't even recognize. I mean, they wouldn't even recognize. I mean, sure, there's always little, you know, sure, there's always little, you know, sure, there's always little, you know, movie fans here and there, but it just movie fans here and there, but it just movie fans here and there, but it just mattered to them. It didn't matter to mattered to them. It didn't matter to mattered to them. It didn't matter to them at all. They were doing something them at all. They were doing something them at all. They were doing something far more important. And that was a real far more important. And that was a real far more important. And that was a real bucket of cold water. It's like, oh, all bucket of cold water. It's like, oh, all bucket of cold water. It's like, oh, all these things we live in this little these things we live in this little these things we live in this little self-reerential bubble that we think is self-reerential bubble that we think is self-reerential bubble that we think is so important and it just isn't. And uh so important and it just isn't. And uh so important and it just isn't. And uh so I thought, you know, maybe I'll just so I thought, you know, maybe I'll just so I thought, you know, maybe I'll just explore around a little bit um just in explore around a little bit um just in explore around a little bit um just in life, you know, and and because I had life, you know, and and because I had life, you know, and and because I had gotten to do an expedition to the rec gotten to do an expedition to the rec gotten to do an expedition to the rec site where I was really now becoming site where I was really now becoming site where I was really now becoming conversant with real deep ocean conversant with real deep ocean conversant with real deep ocean technology, I thought, why don't I just technology, I thought, why don't I just technology, I thought, why don't I just go down that road? I know everybody, you go down that road? I know everybody, you go down that road? I know everybody, you know, I know all the scientists and know, I know all the scientists and know, I know all the scientists and researchers and submersible people and researchers and submersible people and researchers and submersible people and everything. So, I just started creating everything. So, I just started creating everything. So, I just started creating expeditions and building new technical expeditions and building new technical expeditions and building new technical systems, cameras, and lighting systems systems, cameras, and lighting systems systems, cameras, and lighting systems and exploratory vehicles. And and the and exploratory vehicles. And and the and exploratory vehicles. And and the other thing I liked about it is the other thing I liked about it is the other thing I liked about it is the ocean is unforgiving. Either your math ocean is unforgiving. Either your math ocean is unforgiving. Either your math is right or your equipment fails. It'll is right or your equipment fails. It'll is right or your equipment fails. It'll implode or or the electronics will flood implode or or the electronics will flood implode or or the electronics will flood and it won't work and you'll come back and it won't work and you'll come back and it won't work and you'll come back with nothing. And that's not a critic's with nothing. And that's not a critic's with nothing. And that's not a critic's opinion. You know, that's one I I came opinion. You know, that's one I I came opinion. You know, that's one I I came up with this idea, this principle that, up with this idea, this principle that, up with this idea, this principle that, you know, the second law of you know, the second law of you know, the second law of thermodynamics is not an opinion. It's a thermodynamics is not an opinion. It's a thermodynamics is not an opinion. It's a law. It's not some critic's opinion. law. It's not some critic's opinion. law. It's not some critic's opinion. It's not some journalist's opinion. It's It's not some journalist's opinion. It's It's not some journalist's opinion. It's not even a fickle audience member's not even a fickle audience member's not even a fickle audience member's opinion or some some, you know, uh some opinion or some some, you know, uh some opinion or some some, you know, uh some blogger's trolling opinion, you know. Um blogger's trolling opinion, you know. Um blogger's trolling opinion, you know. Um it either works or it doesn't. And I I it either works or it doesn't. And I I it either works or it doesn't. And I I really enjoyed immersing myself in a really enjoyed immersing myself in a really enjoyed immersing myself in a world of hard rules. You succeed or you world of hard rules. You succeed or you world of hard rules. You succeed or you fail, not based on on your art or your fail, not based on on your art or your fail, not based on on your art or your creativity or somebody else's subjective creativity or somebody else's subjective creativity or somebody else's subjective opinion of your art because the two opinion of your art because the two opinion of your art because the two don't exist without each other. That's don't exist without each other. That's don't exist without each other. That's the crazy thing. So as an artist, you the crazy thing. So as an artist, you the crazy thing. So as an artist, you bury your soul and you can be utterly bury your soul and you can be utterly bury your soul and you can be utterly rejected, you know, but ultimately the rejected, you know, but ultimately the rejected, you know, but ultimately the point of art is to communicate with point of art is to communicate with point of art is to communicate with other humans. They may hate it, you other humans. They may hate it, you other humans. They may hate it, you know, so you you you put yourself at know, so you you you put yourself at know, so you you you put yourself at risk. I thought, you know what? I'm just risk. I thought, you know what? I'm just risk. I thought, you know what? I'm just going to go into an empirical world, a going to go into an empirical world, a going to go into an empirical world, a cartisian world where it either works or cartisian world where it either works or cartisian world where it either works or it doesn't based on good engineering. it doesn't based on good engineering. it doesn't based on good engineering. And that was good. And I learned some And that was good. And I learned some And that was good. And I learned some really important human lessons in that really important human lessons in that really important human lessons in that world as well. Cuz when you're offshore world as well. Cuz when you're offshore world as well. Cuz when you're offshore with a small team, it's all about with a small team, it's all about with a small team, it's all about respect and cohesion and and that bond. respect and cohesion and and that bond. respect and cohesion and and that bond. And when you come back to shore, you And when you come back to shore, you And when you come back to shore, you can't even explain to people how hard it can't even explain to people how hard it can't even explain to people how hard it was or why it worked or what it took, was or why it worked or what it took, was or why it worked or what it took, you know, but that bond exists between you know, but that bond exists between you know, but that bond exists between those people. Then I realized, okay, those people. Then I realized, okay, those people. Then I realized, okay, we're only as good as our team. And when we're only as good as our team. And when we're only as good as our team. And when I after Titanic, I put together a team I after Titanic, I put together a team I after Titanic, I put together a team to do The Impossible, which was Avatar. to do The Impossible, which was Avatar. to do The Impossible, which was Avatar. Nobody had ever made a film like that. Nobody had ever made a film like that. Nobody had ever made a film like that. It was a new form of cinema. And I It was a new form of cinema. And I It was a new form of cinema. And I remember we we we fell on our ass. Some remember we we we fell on our ass. Some remember we we we fell on our ass. Some of the first things we tried, we were of the first things we tried, we were of the first things we tried, we were face down on the ground, and I we'd stop face down on the ground, and I we'd stop face down on the ground, and I we'd stop in the middle of a production day and in the middle of a production day and in the middle of a production day and pull out a table and sit around it, and pull out a table and sit around it, and pull out a table and sit around it, and there'd be a bunch of glum faces because there'd be a bunch of glum faces because there'd be a bunch of glum faces because it wasn't working. And I say, "Guys, it wasn't working. And I say, "Guys, it wasn't working. And I say, "Guys, this may seem like the hardest day of this may seem like the hardest day of this may seem like the hardest day of the production. This is going to be the the production. This is going to be the the production. This is going to be the day you remember because this is the day day you remember because this is the day day you remember because this is the day we write page 38 of the manual that we write page 38 of the manual that we write page 38 of the manual that tells the rest of the world how this tells the rest of the world how this tells the rest of the world how this stuff works and we're going to do it and stuff works and we're going to do it and stuff works and we're going to do it and we're going to figure it out." It was we're going to figure it out." It was we're going to figure it out." It was like, you know, Sully's never quit, like, you know, Sully's never quit, like, you know, Sully's never quit, right? But and then we did and we right? But and then we did and we right? But and then we did and we figured it out. And then there's such a figured it out. And then there's such a figured it out. And then there's such a feeling of pride and cohesiveness in the feeling of pride and cohesiveness in the feeling of pride and cohesiveness in the group after that and you start to feel group after that and you start to feel group after that and you start to feel like, "Okay, bring the next challenge. like, "Okay, bring the next challenge. like, "Okay, bring the next challenge. we'll figure it out. And the team spirit we'll figure it out. And the team spirit we'll figure it out. And the team spirit and the team morale is so high now. This and the team morale is so high now. This and the team morale is so high now. This was 19 years ago in 2006. was 19 years ago in 2006. was 19 years ago in 2006. The team spirit and the and the The team spirit and the and the The team spirit and the and the cohesiveness is so high now. People cohesiveness is so high now. People cohesiveness is so high now. People really they they hated when it all came really they they hated when it all came really they they hated when it all came to an end here a few months ago as to an end here a few months ago as to an end here a few months ago as people dropped off one by one as the people dropped off one by one as the people dropped off one by one as the project was winding down and everybody project was winding down and everybody project was winding down and everybody just can't wait to get back to the next just can't wait to get back to the next just can't wait to get back to the next one. Now, I don't know artistically as a one. Now, I don't know artistically as a one. Now, I don't know artistically as a director if that's something I want to director if that's something I want to director if that's something I want to do right away next. there's a pretty do right away next. there's a pretty do right away next. there's a pretty strong I feel a strong pressure on my strong I feel a strong pressure on my strong I feel a strong pressure on my shoulders shoulders shoulders to do it to bring that team back to do it to bring that team back to do it to bring that team back together because it's so important for together because it's so important for together because it's so important for them, you know, and that's not a bad them, you know, and that's not a bad them, you know, and that's not a bad reason to do something at all, you know, reason to do something at all, you know, reason to do something at all, you know, to make other people happy is not a bad to make other people happy is not a bad to make other people happy is not a bad reason to do something or to make other reason to do something or to make other reason to do something or to make other people feel fulfilled. Um, but I also people feel fulfilled. Um, but I also people feel fulfilled. Um, but I also have other things I want to do as well. have other things I want to do as well. have other things I want to do as well. So, it's a little bit of a it's a little So, it's a little bit of a it's a little So, it's a little bit of a it's a little bit of going off a cliff. I I I've I've bit of going off a cliff. I I I've I've bit of going off a cliff. I I I've I've told Susie, my wife, that um I feel like told Susie, my wife, that um I feel like told Susie, my wife, that um I feel like I'm Wy Coyote in a Roadrunner cartoon I'm Wy Coyote in a Roadrunner cartoon I'm Wy Coyote in a Roadrunner cartoon and I just ran off the cliff and I and I just ran off the cliff and I and I just ran off the cliff and I haven't hit the ground yet. There's that haven't hit the ground yet. There's that haven't hit the ground yet. There's that moment where my legs are pinwheeling in moment where my legs are pinwheeling in moment where my legs are pinwheeling in the air, you know? the air, you know? the air, you know? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But that's okay. That's okay. The >> But that's okay. That's okay. The >> But that's okay. That's okay. The scariest moments are always the moments scariest moments are always the moments scariest moments are always the moments of the greatest opportunity, I think. of the greatest opportunity, I think. of the greatest opportunity, I think. How how do you like when you're building How how do you like when you're building How how do you like when you're building a universe with people, you're building a universe with people, you're building a universe with people, you're building lives and hearts and worlds that connect lives and hearts and worlds that connect lives and hearts and worlds that connect on such a deep level? You I feel like on such a deep level? You I feel like on such a deep level? You I feel like when I'm listening to you, I'm like when I'm listening to you, I'm like when I'm listening to you, I'm like everything you do is highly emotional everything you do is highly emotional everything you do is highly emotional and emotive and heartfelt and deep and and emotive and heartfelt and deep and and emotive and heartfelt and deep and you can't help but cry when you're you can't help but cry when you're you can't help but cry when you're watching your work, you know. Maybe not watching your work, you know. Maybe not watching your work, you know. Maybe not Terminator, but but what follows. Or Terminator, but but what follows. Or Terminator, but but what follows. Or maybe maybe maybe maybe maybe maybe >> Terminator 2 when the Terminator go on. >> Terminator 2 when the Terminator go on. >> Terminator 2 when the Terminator go on. when he goes down when he goes down into when he goes down when he goes down into when he goes down when he goes down into the steel and his POV goes to nothing. the steel and his POV goes to nothing. the steel and his POV goes to nothing. Come on. People People tear up. Come on. People People tear up. Come on. People People tear up. >> Yes. Yes. No. And so you see that and >> Yes. Yes. No. And so you see that and >> Yes. Yes. No. And so you see that and I'm like it feels like the emotion of I'm like it feels like the emotion of I'm like it feels like the emotion of creating it, creating it, creating it, >> whatever we're getting out of it is >> whatever we're getting out of it is >> whatever we're getting out of it is because the emotion that's creating it because the emotion that's creating it because the emotion that's creating it is going into it. And this team that you is going into it. And this team that you is going into it. And this team that you are are are >> curating is bringing all of that >> curating is bringing all of that >> curating is bringing all of that emotion. as you said, whether it was the emotion. as you said, whether it was the emotion. as you said, whether it was the pantios that are building the physical pantios that are building the physical pantios that are building the physical buildings in the movie or whether it's buildings in the movie or whether it's buildings in the movie or whether it's the emotion that the characters are the emotion that the characters are the emotion that the characters are feeling and Tuk is feeling and etc. feeling and Tuk is feeling and etc. feeling and Tuk is feeling and etc. How do you even start to detach from How do you even start to detach from How do you even start to detach from that as a team when you've been immersed that as a team when you've been immersed that as a team when you've been immersed in it for decades at this point? in it for decades at this point? in it for decades at this point? >> Maybe you don't, >> Maybe you don't, >> Maybe you don't, maybe you just keep going. I don't know. maybe you just keep going. I don't know. maybe you just keep going. I don't know. Well, look, I mean, there are there are Well, look, I mean, there are there are Well, look, I mean, there are there are a number of milestones here that have to a number of milestones here that have to a number of milestones here that have to be met. First of all, the film has to be met. First of all, the film has to be met. First of all, the film has to succeed financially, and that's not a succeed financially, and that's not a succeed financially, and that's not a given. Everybody just assumes it's a given. Everybody just assumes it's a given. Everybody just assumes it's a no-brainer, but the theatrical no-brainer, but the theatrical no-brainer, but the theatrical marketplace has been dwindling and and marketplace has been dwindling and and marketplace has been dwindling and and collapsing about 35%. It hasn't collapsing about 35%. It hasn't collapsing about 35%. It hasn't rebounded, and people's habit patterns rebounded, and people's habit patterns rebounded, and people's habit patterns have changed. And so, the thing that I have changed. And so, the thing that I have changed. And so, the thing that I grew up and and and love and and feel grew up and and and love and and feel grew up and and and love and and feel such um uh strong sense of passion for such um uh strong sense of passion for such um uh strong sense of passion for may be becoming obsolete. may be becoming obsolete. may be becoming obsolete. maybe and the cost of making movies is maybe and the cost of making movies is maybe and the cost of making movies is continuously going up and this and the continuously going up and this and the continuously going up and this and the demand is falling. So that's a little demand is falling. So that's a little demand is falling. So that's a little bit of a death spiral right there, you bit of a death spiral right there, you bit of a death spiral right there, you know, and so maybe it's maybe it's going know, and so maybe it's maybe it's going know, and so maybe it's maybe it's going to be okay. We were sort of successful to be okay. We were sort of successful to be okay. We were sort of successful if we can do the next one cheaper, we if we can do the next one cheaper, we if we can do the next one cheaper, we can continue, right? And then there's can continue, right? And then there's can continue, right? And then there's also that wild card. You know, there are also that wild card. You know, there are also that wild card. You know, there are other projects that I have that I've other projects that I have that I've other projects that I have that I've been sort of sitting on in the in the been sort of sitting on in the in the been sort of sitting on in the in the background. And there's a thing that I background. And there's a thing that I background. And there's a thing that I want to do about Hiroshima. I bought a want to do about Hiroshima. I bought a want to do about Hiroshima. I bought a book recently, but it's a story I've book recently, but it's a story I've book recently, but it's a story I've been following and and you know, been following and and you know, been following and and you know, excavating and researching for really my excavating and researching for really my excavating and researching for really my whole adult life. It's something that I whole adult life. It's something that I whole adult life. It's something that I really feel strongly I need to do at really feel strongly I need to do at really feel strongly I need to do at some point. It's not a big film. Sounds some point. It's not a big film. Sounds some point. It's not a big film. Sounds like it would be, but it's not a big like it would be, but it's not a big like it would be, but it's not a big film in the sense of an Avatar film. film in the sense of an Avatar film. film in the sense of an Avatar film. It's not a four-year commitment. It It's not a four-year commitment. It It's not a four-year commitment. It might be a one-year commitment. Um, so I might be a one-year commitment. Um, so I might be a one-year commitment. Um, so I need to do that. And so, you know, need to do that. And so, you know, need to do that. And so, you know, >> why why is that so meaningful to you? >> why why is that so meaningful to you? >> why why is that so meaningful to you? What about it? What about it? What about it? >> I just think that we live in this world. >> I just think that we live in this world. >> I just think that we live in this world. I mean, I think Katherine Bigalow's film I mean, I think Katherine Bigalow's film I mean, I think Katherine Bigalow's film title is it's kind of growing on me. The title is it's kind of growing on me. The title is it's kind of growing on me. The House of Dynamite. It's like we live in House of Dynamite. It's like we live in House of Dynamite. It's like we live in a house. Imagine you live in a house and a house. Imagine you live in a house and a house. Imagine you live in a house and you feel perfectly normal and you go you feel perfectly normal and you go you feel perfectly normal and you go about your business and you're chopping about your business and you're chopping about your business and you're chopping onions for the guacamole and you're onions for the guacamole and you're onions for the guacamole and you're going to watch your favorite show, but going to watch your favorite show, but going to watch your favorite show, but the basement is filled with dynamite and the basement is filled with dynamite and the basement is filled with dynamite and it could go off at any moment. That's it could go off at any moment. That's it could go off at any moment. That's the world that we live in, you know, and the world that we live in, you know, and the world that we live in, you know, and that it hits that metaphor. And so, uh, that it hits that metaphor. And so, uh, that it hits that metaphor. And so, uh, it's not a metaphor. It's it's our it's not a metaphor. It's it's our it's not a metaphor. It's it's our world. So I I I feel that we have a a world. So I I I feel that we have a a world. So I I I feel that we have a a kind of a systematic forgetting of kind of a systematic forgetting of kind of a systematic forgetting of history, you know, just at at that history, you know, just at at that history, you know, just at at that remove. And we're enough removed from remove. And we're enough removed from remove. And we're enough removed from the event of of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. the event of of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. the event of of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I think people need to be reminded what I think people need to be reminded what I think people need to be reminded what these weapons really are and what they these weapons really are and what they these weapons really are and what they really do. Of course, the the punchline really do. Of course, the the punchline really do. Of course, the the punchline of the movie is going to be the card at of the movie is going to be the card at of the movie is going to be the card at the end that says there are 12,000 the end that says there are 12,000 the end that says there are 12,000 nuclear warheads deployed in the world nuclear warheads deployed in the world nuclear warheads deployed in the world today. Each one is 100 to 500 times more today. Each one is 100 to 500 times more today. Each one is 100 to 500 times more powerful than the one that destroyed powerful than the one that destroyed powerful than the one that destroyed Hiroshima. And you're going to witness Hiroshima. And you're going to witness Hiroshima. And you're going to witness it and you're going to go through it it and you're going to go through it it and you're going to go through it with the main characters and it's not with the main characters and it's not with the main characters and it's not gonna be pretty. It might be a hard film gonna be pretty. It might be a hard film gonna be pretty. It might be a hard film to watch. In fact, it might be my least to watch. In fact, it might be my least to watch. In fact, it might be my least successful film. But I just feel it's successful film. But I just feel it's successful film. But I just feel it's it's that that's that thing of duty. You it's that that's that thing of duty. You it's that that's that thing of duty. You know, you're all about purpose. We know, you're all about purpose. We know, you're all about purpose. We define our own purpose. define our own purpose. define our own purpose. >> You know, we choose purpose for >> You know, we choose purpose for >> You know, we choose purpose for ourselves. And it doesn't all have to ourselves. And it doesn't all have to ourselves. And it doesn't all have to be, you know, obviously uh benevolent be, you know, obviously uh benevolent be, you know, obviously uh benevolent like, you know, maybe helping out a soup like, you know, maybe helping out a soup like, you know, maybe helping out a soup kitchen and and and easing the pain of kitchen and and and easing the pain of kitchen and and and easing the pain of others. It might be something that's others. It might be something that's others. It might be something that's more of a warning that helps helps guide more of a warning that helps helps guide more of a warning that helps helps guide us away from the rocks of of destruction us away from the rocks of of destruction us away from the rocks of of destruction of civilization. As an artist, of civilization. As an artist, of civilization. As an artist, >> I think it's important to consider these >> I think it's important to consider these >> I think it's important to consider these things, you know, and not feel things, you know, and not feel things, you know, and not feel powerless, powerless, powerless, >> cuz it's easy in a in a world of 8 >> cuz it's easy in a in a world of 8 >> cuz it's easy in a in a world of 8 billion people to feel powerless. And billion people to feel powerless. And billion people to feel powerless. And yet empirically I can look at it, oh I'm yet empirically I can look at it, oh I'm yet empirically I can look at it, oh I'm reaching millions of people. I'm reaching millions of people. I'm reaching millions of people. I'm reaching hundreds of millions of people reaching hundreds of millions of people reaching hundreds of millions of people with a movie like Avatar, you know, with a movie like Avatar, you know, with a movie like Avatar, you know, maybe I won't reach as many people with maybe I won't reach as many people with maybe I won't reach as many people with a movie like Ghost of Hiroshima, but a movie like Ghost of Hiroshima, but a movie like Ghost of Hiroshima, but I'll reach some, I'll reach some, I'll reach some, >> you know, and you never know. You you >> you know, and you never know. You you >> you know, and you never know. You you never know the the causal chain that never know the the causal chain that never know the the causal chain that that puts a person at a moment where that puts a person at a moment where that puts a person at a moment where they've been influenced by something. they've been influenced by something. they've been influenced by something. >> But you have it even in Fire and Ash. I >> But you have it even in Fire and Ash. I >> But you have it even in Fire and Ash. I mean that that scene that you were mean that that scene that you were mean that that scene that you were referencing without giving too much away referencing without giving too much away referencing without giving too much away of Quaridge actually arming you know and of Quaridge actually arming you know and of Quaridge actually arming you know and there all of a sudden you see the there all of a sudden you see the there all of a sudden you see the becoming of terrorists like that idea of becoming of terrorists like that idea of becoming of terrorists like that idea of the government you know all these the government you know all these the government you know all these messages are just I I feel like there messages are just I I feel like there messages are just I I feel like there are so many deep layers to the movie you are so many deep layers to the movie you are so many deep layers to the movie you could keep going whether it's could keep going whether it's could keep going whether it's >> family whether it's racism whether it's >> family whether it's racism whether it's >> family whether it's racism whether it's equality whether it's equity whether equality whether it's equity whether equality whether it's equity whether it's you know whether it goes down all it's you know whether it goes down all it's you know whether it goes down all the way through to absolutely the way through to absolutely the way through to absolutely >> governmental politics that we're seeing >> governmental politics that we're seeing >> governmental politics that we're seeing today I mean the the movie is filled today I mean the the movie is filled today I mean the the movie is filled with so many powerful messages with so many powerful messages with so many powerful messages >> and just seeing each other, you know, it >> and just seeing each other, you know, it >> and just seeing each other, you know, it all ultimately it all goes back to all ultimately it all goes back to all ultimately it all goes back to connection and connection and connection and >> is that the root? >> is that the root? >> is that the root? >> Yeah, I think so. You know, there are >> Yeah, I think so. You know, there are >> Yeah, I think so. You know, there are two moments in the film where people say two moments in the film where people say two moments in the film where people say they see each other and they understand they see each other and they understand they see each other and they understand each other and one gives you this each other and one gives you this each other and one gives you this feeling of vast dread when when Verog feeling of vast dread when when Verog feeling of vast dread when when Verog says she sees Cage and she sees this says she sees Cage and she sees this says she sees Cage and she sees this vision of destruction and for herself, vision of destruction and for herself, vision of destruction and for herself, you know, she's she's like uh you know, you know, she's she's like uh you know, you know, she's she's like uh you know, Kie. Kie. Kie. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Right. Uh and then when Nati sees >> Right. Uh and then when Nati sees >> Right. Uh and then when Nati sees spider, you know, um spider, you know, um spider, you know, um >> finally >> finally >> finally >> and there's a bridge across the two >> and there's a bridge across the two >> and there's a bridge across the two species, across that divide, across that species, across that divide, across that species, across that divide, across that because she becomes quite a racist in because she becomes quite a racist in because she becomes quite a racist in the film and that's by design. the film and that's by design. the film and that's by design. >> Uh it's like we take our most beloved >> Uh it's like we take our most beloved >> Uh it's like we take our most beloved character and we challenge you to really character and we challenge you to really character and we challenge you to really walk in her shoes and go the hard yards walk in her shoes and go the hard yards walk in her shoes and go the hard yards of what loss and grief can do. And I of what loss and grief can do. And I of what loss and grief can do. And I think about all these people and think about all these people and think about all these people and everything that they've lost in the everything that they've lost in the everything that they've lost in the world, whether it's in Gaza or Sudan or world, whether it's in Gaza or Sudan or world, whether it's in Gaza or Sudan or Ukraine or wherever. And how does that Ukraine or wherever. And how does that Ukraine or wherever. And how does that not generate just a hatred that will not generate just a hatred that will not generate just a hatred that will span generations? Well, that's the cycle span generations? Well, that's the cycle span generations? Well, that's the cycle that we have to break, right? You know, that we have to break, right? You know, that we have to break, right? You know, Lo Lok says something at the beginning Lo Lok says something at the beginning Lo Lok says something at the beginning and it's kind of like a little cheeky to and it's kind of like a little cheeky to and it's kind of like a little cheeky to actually say your theme out loud, you actually say your theme out loud, you actually say your theme out loud, you know, in the voice over here. I'm going know, in the voice over here. I'm going know, in the voice over here. I'm going to tell you what the movie's about. to tell you what the movie's about. to tell you what the movie's about. Okay. Okay. Okay. uh you know and he says the the fire of uh you know and he says the the fire of uh you know and he says the the fire of ash leaves uh the fire of hate bring ash leaves uh the fire of hate bring ash leaves uh the fire of hate bring leaves only the ash of grief but he leaves only the ash of grief but he leaves only the ash of grief but he doesn't complete it which is from that doesn't complete it which is from that doesn't complete it which is from that ash of grief comes that fire of hate ash of grief comes that fire of hate ash of grief comes that fire of hate again and the cycle perpetuates again and the cycle perpetuates again and the cycle perpetuates indefinitely so how do you break it indefinitely so how do you break it indefinitely so how do you break it right that's the challenge I think right that's the challenge I think right that's the challenge I think that's presented in the movie you know that's presented in the movie you know that's presented in the movie you know how do you break it and how you how do how do you break it and how you how do how do you break it and how you how do you know when it's not about about you know when it's not about about you know when it's not about about hatred and revenge and when you fight hatred and revenge and when you fight hatred and revenge and when you fight defensively for the things that you defensively for the things that you defensively for the things that you value, you know, as opposed to value, you know, as opposed to value, you know, as opposed to offensively going out after somebody to offensively going out after somebody to offensively going out after somebody to punish them for revenge, to take what's punish them for revenge, to take what's punish them for revenge, to take what's theirs, you know. Um, and you see all of theirs, you know. Um, and you see all of theirs, you know. Um, and you see all of that happening in in the world right now that happening in in the world right now that happening in in the world right now all over the place. And, uh, you know, all over the place. And, uh, you know, all over the place. And, uh, you know, you wonder this is I'm going to circle you wonder this is I'm going to circle you wonder this is I'm going to circle this back to AI for a second. The thing this back to AI for a second. The thing this back to AI for a second. The thing that will the thing that the the the that will the thing that the the the that will the thing that the the the proponents of artificial super proponents of artificial super proponents of artificial super intelligence always say is, well, we'll intelligence always say is, well, we'll intelligence always say is, well, we'll we'll manage the alignment problem. will we'll manage the alignment problem. will we'll manage the alignment problem. will align AI to our common good as human align AI to our common good as human align AI to our common good as human beings. But we can't agree on a damn beings. But we can't agree on a damn beings. But we can't agree on a damn thing. We can't agree on what's right thing. We can't agree on what's right thing. We can't agree on what's right and wrong, what's ethical, what's moral. and wrong, what's ethical, what's moral. and wrong, what's ethical, what's moral. You know, Republicans's idea of that is You know, Republicans's idea of that is You know, Republicans's idea of that is very different from a Democrats, uh, a very different from a Democrats, uh, a very different from a Democrats, uh, a Muslim, a Christian, a Hindu, you know, Muslim, a Christian, a Hindu, you know, Muslim, a Christian, a Hindu, you know, a Shintoist, whatever it is, everybody's a Shintoist, whatever it is, everybody's a Shintoist, whatever it is, everybody's got a different opinion and we can't got a different opinion and we can't got a different opinion and we can't agree on anything. So, how are we going agree on anything. So, how are we going agree on anything. So, how are we going to suddenly form this wonderful moral to suddenly form this wonderful moral to suddenly form this wonderful moral consensus so we can teach it to consensus so we can teach it to consensus so we can teach it to something smarter than us that we can't something smarter than us that we can't something smarter than us that we can't control? I mean, if that's not the the control? I mean, if that's not the the control? I mean, if that's not the the the biggest recipe for disaster I've the biggest recipe for disaster I've the biggest recipe for disaster I've ever heard in my life, what is, you ever heard in my life, what is, you ever heard in my life, what is, you know, now I am a science fiction fan and know, now I am a science fiction fan and know, now I am a science fiction fan and it always goes into the darkest it always goes into the darkest it always goes into the darkest possible, you know, scenario because possible, you know, scenario because possible, you know, scenario because that's where science fiction goes that's where science fiction goes that's where science fiction goes because it's meant to be a warning to us because it's meant to be a warning to us because it's meant to be a warning to us about possible futures. But, okay, I about possible futures. But, okay, I about possible futures. But, okay, I we're living in a science fiction world we're living in a science fiction world we're living in a science fiction world right now, you know. So I look I look at right now, you know. So I look I look at right now, you know. So I look I look at you. I look into your eyes. I see your you. I look into your eyes. I see your you. I look into your eyes. I see your kind of soulfulness and your kind of soulfulness and your kind of soulfulness and your enlightenment and what all the things enlightenment and what all the things enlightenment and what all the things that you do and why you do it. And I that you do and why you do it. And I that you do and why you do it. And I think all right that's why we're going think all right that's why we're going think all right that's why we're going to make it because there are people who to make it because there are people who to make it because there are people who are practitioners of empathy and are practitioners of empathy and are practitioners of empathy and connection and they're out there and connection and they're out there and connection and they're out there and they are legion. They just don't ever they are legion. They just don't ever they are legion. They just don't ever seem to get into positions of power and seem to get into positions of power and seem to get into positions of power and and and you know that where it really and and you know that where it really and and you know that where it really makes a big makes a big difference. It makes a big makes a big difference. It makes a big makes a big difference. It just seems like all the wrong people just seems like all the wrong people just seems like all the wrong people elevate. I don't know how you feel about elevate. I don't know how you feel about elevate. I don't know how you feel about that and I don't know if that keeps you that and I don't know if that keeps you that and I don't know if that keeps you up at night. up at night. up at night. >> Yeah. Well, I I think that's partly why >> Yeah. Well, I I think that's partly why >> Yeah. Well, I I think that's partly why I try and do what I do because I think I I try and do what I do because I think I I try and do what I do because I think I saw that for a long time. And of course, saw that for a long time. And of course, saw that for a long time. And of course, what I love about the way you build what I love about the way you build what I love about the way you build character, which is true of me or character, which is true of me or character, which is true of me or anyone, is that no one's perfect. anyone, is that no one's perfect. anyone, is that no one's perfect. Everyone's flawed and has Everyone's flawed and has Everyone's flawed and has >> multiple, you know, when you look at all >> multiple, you know, when you look at all >> multiple, you know, when you look at all of the characters in Fire and Ash, like of the characters in Fire and Ash, like of the characters in Fire and Ash, like they're not just good and bad. Like that they're not just good and bad. Like that they're not just good and bad. Like that would be and the hence the scene we were would be and the hence the scene we were would be and the hence the scene we were just talking about with spider like that just talking about with spider like that just talking about with spider like that moment is so I mean I can't believe you moment is so I mean I can't believe you moment is so I mean I can't believe you went there. I was like wow this is like went there. I was like wow this is like went there. I was like wow this is like >> really testing. Yeah, >> really testing. Yeah, >> really testing. Yeah, >> you know, everything that I believe to >> you know, everything that I believe to >> you know, everything that I believe to be true about this family, and I'm not be true about this family, and I'm not be true about this family, and I'm not giving it away, hence speaking in broad giving it away, hence speaking in broad giving it away, hence speaking in broad terms, but so, so to be really clear, terms, but so, so to be really clear, terms, but so, so to be really clear, there's no one who's perfect or flawless there's no one who's perfect or flawless there's no one who's perfect or flawless or, you know, and and of course, I have or, you know, and and of course, I have or, you know, and and of course, I have all of those challenges myself, but all of those challenges myself, but all of those challenges myself, but >> I find that what I try and do by having >> I find that what I try and do by having >> I find that what I try and do by having this platform and by having these types this platform and by having these types this platform and by having these types of conversations with people like of conversations with people like of conversations with people like yourself and allow for these we've like yourself and allow for these we've like yourself and allow for these we've like my vision and I think you'll relate to my vision and I think you'll relate to my vision and I think you'll relate to this based on what you were saying, I this based on what you were saying, I this based on what you were saying, I love the bell curve, too. So when I love the bell curve, too. So when I love the bell curve, too. So when I started this, my vision was to make started this, my vision was to make started this, my vision was to make wisdom go viral. wisdom go viral. wisdom go viral. >> I said I wanted to find a way that >> I said I wanted to find a way that >> I said I wanted to find a way that hundreds of millions or billions of hundreds of millions or billions of hundreds of millions or billions of people would engage with themes. people would engage with themes. people would engage with themes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> That were at one point saved for the >> That were at one point saved for the >> That were at one point saved for the elite or niches. elite or niches. elite or niches. >> Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. >> Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. >> Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. >> And we do that. We use 750 million views >> And we do that. We use 750 million views >> And we do that. We use 750 million views a month. a month. a month. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> About conversations like this, which is >> About conversations like this, which is >> About conversations like this, which is proof to me proof to me proof to me >> that people want this. And so I think we >> that people want this. And so I think we >> that people want this. And so I think we may I agree with you. I don't think may I agree with you. I don't think may I agree with you. I don't think we'll do it through the traditional we'll do it through the traditional we'll do it through the traditional means. means. means. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But art and creativity and now the >> But art and creativity and now the >> But art and creativity and now the microphone belongs to everyone. There is microphone belongs to everyone. There is microphone belongs to everyone. There is an opportunity to to galvanize community an opportunity to to galvanize community an opportunity to to galvanize community and connect to these higher and connect to these higher and connect to these higher >> parts. We we have to do what we can do. >> parts. We we have to do what we can do. >> parts. We we have to do what we can do. Our voice may carry not very far or it Our voice may carry not very far or it Our voice may carry not very far or it may ripple outward very very far. We may ripple outward very very far. We may ripple outward very very far. We have to do what we can do. And for me, have to do what we can do. And for me, have to do what we can do. And for me, what drives me is being a parent, you what drives me is being a parent, you what drives me is being a parent, you know, and knowing that there's there's a know, and knowing that there's there's a know, and knowing that there's there's a a legacy that's being handed to my kids a legacy that's being handed to my kids a legacy that's being handed to my kids by my generation. by my generation. by my generation. And I just want it to be the best that And I just want it to be the best that And I just want it to be the best that it can be. It's not going to be perfect. it can be. It's not going to be perfect. it can be. It's not going to be perfect. It's not even might not even be that It's not even might not even be that It's not even might not even be that great, but everything that people like great, but everything that people like great, but everything that people like yourself and and hopefully I do can yourself and and hopefully I do can yourself and and hopefully I do can improve it incrementally, improve it incrementally, improve it incrementally, you know. Um, you know. Um, you know. Um, and so anyway, you just you just keep and so anyway, you just you just keep and so anyway, you just you just keep banging away at it, right? banging away at it, right? banging away at it, right? >> Yeah. Well, I think I think the stories >> Yeah. Well, I think I think the stories >> Yeah. Well, I think I think the stories you tell do that in the most profound you tell do that in the most profound you tell do that in the most profound way. And I think I do think that art way. And I think I do think that art way. And I think I do think that art transcends so many things in the world transcends so many things in the world transcends so many things in the world as you said and anyone can sit in that as you said and anyone can sit in that as you said and anyone can sit in that room, forget their designation or their room, forget their designation or their room, forget their designation or their seat or their status and watch a movie seat or their status and watch a movie seat or their status and watch a movie about humanity and connection. But about humanity and connection. But about humanity and connection. But >> well, you you're using the term >> well, you you're using the term >> well, you you're using the term connection and I think of that as an connection and I think of that as an connection and I think of that as an extension of our our impulse to empathy. extension of our our impulse to empathy. extension of our our impulse to empathy. We have a natural human impulse toward We have a natural human impulse toward We have a natural human impulse toward empathy. empathy. empathy. >> Yeah. I think we all have it unless >> Yeah. I think we all have it unless >> Yeah. I think we all have it unless you're a psychopath and that's 1% of the you're a psychopath and that's 1% of the you're a psychopath and that's 1% of the population. So 99% of the population has population. So 99% of the population has population. So 99% of the population has an impulse toward empathy. I think where an impulse toward empathy. I think where an impulse toward empathy. I think where empathy goes ary is that it it's narrow empathy goes ary is that it it's narrow empathy goes ary is that it it's narrow and powerful as opposed to diff more and powerful as opposed to diff more and powerful as opposed to diff more diffuse. Right? So when we have uh an diffuse. Right? So when we have uh an diffuse. Right? So when we have uh an empathy for our family, for our empathy for our family, for our empathy for our family, for our children, for our friends, then children, for our friends, then children, for our friends, then everybody else starts to look like an everybody else starts to look like an everybody else starts to look like an enemy. Mhm. enemy. Mhm. enemy. Mhm. >> And I think it's that narrow spotlight >> And I think it's that narrow spotlight >> And I think it's that narrow spotlight of empathy where where it breaks down. of empathy where where it breaks down. of empathy where where it breaks down. On the other hand, we can hear a story On the other hand, we can hear a story On the other hand, we can hear a story about somebody in another state or about somebody in another state or about somebody in another state or another country and all of a sudden another country and all of a sudden another country and all of a sudden we're weeping for that person because we're weeping for that person because we're weeping for that person because our mirror on allows us to feel their our mirror on allows us to feel their our mirror on allows us to feel their pain. pain. pain. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Right. But we can't feel the pain of the >> Right. But we can't feel the pain of the >> Right. But we can't feel the pain of the world. And but we have to we have to we world. And but we have to we have to we world. And but we have to we have to we have to be able to expand it. Not where have to be able to expand it. Not where have to be able to expand it. Not where it crushes us, but to where we don't see it crushes us, but to where we don't see it crushes us, but to where we don't see the the other as an enemy. the the other as an enemy. the the other as an enemy. >> Yes. But somebody who's maybe an equal >> Yes. But somebody who's maybe an equal >> Yes. But somebody who's maybe an equal victim with us of you know a a kind of victim with us of you know a a kind of victim with us of you know a a kind of um a world that uh can go can go against um a world that uh can go can go against um a world that uh can go can go against you and you know medically and any any you and you know medically and any any you and you know medically and any any kind of moment you know things can go kind of moment you know things can go kind of moment you know things can go against you and there are people that against you and there are people that against you and there are people that are less fortunate people that are more are less fortunate people that are more are less fortunate people that are more fortunate. Um but never people never fortunate. Um but never people never fortunate. Um but never people never feel like they have enough. That's the feel like they have enough. That's the feel like they have enough. That's the problem. They never it's not that problem. They never it's not that problem. They never it's not that they're greedy. It's that they never they're greedy. It's that they never they're greedy. It's that they never have enough to feel completely secure have enough to feel completely secure have enough to feel completely secure and safe for their family. and safe for their family. and safe for their family. >> So there's a certain point where you >> So there's a certain point where you >> So there's a certain point where you have to be willing to risk your own have to be willing to risk your own have to be willing to risk your own family and risk your own comfort for the family and risk your own comfort for the family and risk your own comfort for the good of a of a greater group. And that's good of a of a greater group. And that's good of a of a greater group. And that's a very very hard place for for most a very very hard place for for most a very very hard place for for most people to go. people to go. people to go. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> You know, but there's an image that I >> You know, but there's an image that I >> You know, but there's an image that I always wanted in one of the Avatar always wanted in one of the Avatar always wanted in one of the Avatar movies, which is seeing that world from movies, which is seeing that world from movies, which is seeing that world from orbit at night where you see everything orbit at night where you see everything orbit at night where you see everything connected. you know that those little connected. you know that those little connected. you know that those little glowing, glowing, glowing, you know, you you basically see the mind you know, you you basically see the mind you know, you you basically see the mind or the heart of Awa of that connected or the heart of Awa of that connected or the heart of Awa of that connected connectedness. And so I managed to connectedness. And so I managed to connectedness. And so I managed to squeeze it in. I managed to squeeze it squeeze it in. I managed to squeeze it squeeze it in. I managed to squeeze it into this this film and hopefully people into this this film and hopefully people into this this film and hopefully people will resonate, you know, for what it will resonate, you know, for what it will resonate, you know, for what it what it means, what it's meant to mean. what it means, what it's meant to mean. what it means, what it's meant to mean. Anyway, Anyway, Anyway, >> James, uh I have a warning from your >> James, uh I have a warning from your >> James, uh I have a warning from your team because you have to get after. So I team because you have to get after. So I team because you have to get after. So I want to uh end with a final five that we want to uh end with a final five that we want to uh end with a final five that we do with every guest. Uh I could talk to do with every guest. Uh I could talk to do with every guest. Uh I could talk to you for hours and I hope we do get to you for hours and I hope we do get to you for hours and I hope we do get to talk more offline but uh we end every talk more offline but uh we end every talk more offline but uh we end every interview with these final five. They interview with these final five. They interview with these final five. They have to be answered in one word to one have to be answered in one word to one have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum. sentence maximum. sentence maximum. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> So James Cameron >> So James Cameron >> So James Cameron >> I can do a six paragraph long sentence >> I can do a six paragraph long sentence >> I can do a six paragraph long sentence but but but >> Okay. So we asked these to every guest. >> Okay. So we asked these to every guest. >> Okay. So we asked these to every guest. James Cameron these are your final five. James Cameron these are your final five. James Cameron these are your final five. Question one. What is the best advice Question one. What is the best advice Question one. What is the best advice you've ever heard or received? you've ever heard or received? you've ever heard or received? >> I had a teacher that said >> I had a teacher that said >> I had a teacher that said you have unlimited potential. and he meant it and he meant it >> and it it changed a lot for me. >> and it it changed a lot for me. >> and it it changed a lot for me. >> It's a great answer. >> It's a great answer. >> It's a great answer. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Uh question number two, what is the >> Uh question number two, what is the >> Uh question number two, what is the worst advice you've ever heard or worst advice you've ever heard or worst advice you've ever heard or received? >> Roger Corman told me to always sit down >> Roger Corman told me to always sit down on set. on set. on set. >> You stand up a lot. >> You stand up a lot. >> You stand up a lot. >> I never sit down. >> I never sit down. >> I never sit down. >> That's a great answer. Uh question >> That's a great answer. Uh question >> That's a great answer. Uh question number three. What's the hardest thing number three. What's the hardest thing number three. What's the hardest thing you've learned about yourself that you've learned about yourself that you've learned about yourself that shaped your art? shaped your art? shaped your art? >> The movie is not more important than the >> The movie is not more important than the >> The movie is not more important than the process of working with people to make process of working with people to make process of working with people to make the movie. the movie. the movie. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> That took 40 years. No, maybe 30. >> That took 40 years. No, maybe 30. >> That took 40 years. No, maybe 30. >> The people are more important. >> The people are more important. >> The people are more important. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Well, it's beautiful. Uh, question >> Well, it's beautiful. Uh, question >> Well, it's beautiful. Uh, question number four. number four. number four. Tell us the real reason why Jack Tell us the real reason why Jack Tell us the real reason why Jack couldn't fit on the door. Ah, you went couldn't fit on the door. Ah, you went couldn't fit on the door. Ah, you went there. I had to there. I had to there. I had to >> Okay, this interview's over. >> Okay, this interview's over. >> Okay, this interview's over. Um Um Um because his chivalry demanded it. because his chivalry demanded it. because his chivalry demanded it. >> It's a great answer. >> It's a great answer. >> It's a great answer. >> He loved her and he would not take a >> He loved her and he would not take a >> He loved her and he would not take a chance that they could both survive if chance that they could both survive if chance that they could both survive if they could both die. they could both die. they could both die. >> That's a great answer. >> That's a great answer. >> That's a great answer. >> Yeah. And by the way, Romeo and Juliet >> Yeah. And by the way, Romeo and Juliet >> Yeah. And by the way, Romeo and Juliet had to die. But there sacrifice, duty in had to die. But there sacrifice, duty in had to die. But there sacrifice, duty in your themes. Just there's so your themes. Just there's so your themes. Just there's so >> love, love, death, sacrifice, duty. >> love, love, death, sacrifice, duty. >> love, love, death, sacrifice, duty. They're all related and they're all They're all related and they're all They're all related and they're all thematic in all of my films. thematic in all of my films. thematic in all of my films. >> Why do you think that is? >> Why do you think that is? >> Why do you think that is? >> I don't know. >> I don't know. >> I don't know. >> You still discovering that? Still >> You still discovering that? Still >> You still discovering that? Still curious about that where that comes curious about that where that comes curious about that where that comes from. from. from. >> Can I speak in longer? >> Can I speak in longer? >> Can I speak in longer? >> Yeah, please. Yeah. Yeah, that's a big >> Yeah, please. Yeah. Yeah, that's a big >> Yeah, please. Yeah. Yeah, that's a big question. I don't know because I these question. I don't know because I these question. I don't know because I these are things that I'm finding later in are things that I'm finding later in are things that I'm finding later in life I actually am confronting and life I actually am confronting and life I actually am confronting and having to deal with but in but in early having to deal with but in but in early having to deal with but in but in early life they just made sense to me. life they just made sense to me. life they just made sense to me. >> You know uh I always say all my movies >> You know uh I always say all my movies >> You know uh I always say all my movies are love stories but they're not are love stories but they're not are love stories but they're not necessarily conventional love stories. necessarily conventional love stories. necessarily conventional love stories. >> Duty and sacrifice are things that I I >> Duty and sacrifice are things that I I >> Duty and sacrifice are things that I I don't even know if it's incultterated. don't even know if it's incultterated. don't even know if it's incultterated. It might even be just biological. It It might even be just biological. It It might even be just biological. It might just be innate. might just be innate. might just be innate. >> I don't know or some combination. I >> I don't know or some combination. I >> I don't know or some combination. I think Canadians in general tend to be think Canadians in general tend to be think Canadians in general tend to be less selfish. Um, but you know, you less selfish. Um, but you know, you less selfish. Um, but you know, you can't generalize about an entire can't generalize about an entire can't generalize about an entire population and there were some real population and there were some real population and there were some real [ __ ] in the town I grew up in. So, [ __ ] in the town I grew up in. So, [ __ ] in the town I grew up in. So, you know, you know, you know, um, I don't know where that comes from, um, I don't know where that comes from, um, I don't know where that comes from, >> but it's a belief system. Definitely a >> but it's a belief system. Definitely a >> but it's a belief system. Definitely a belief system. belief system. belief system. >> I'm glad I asked you that question now >> I'm glad I asked you that question now >> I'm glad I asked you that question now because we got a got an answer that just because we got a got an answer that just because we got a got an answer that just Yeah. show shares so much more of your Yeah. show shares so much more of your Yeah. show shares so much more of your heart and and where it all comes from. heart and and where it all comes from. heart and and where it all comes from. Uh, fifth and final question. And we ask Uh, fifth and final question. And we ask Uh, fifth and final question. And we ask this to every guest who's ever been on this to every guest who's ever been on this to every guest who's ever been on the show. If you could create one law the show. If you could create one law the show. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to that everyone in the world had to that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? A law. A law. Wow. Legislating morality. That's a hard Wow. Legislating morality. That's a hard Wow. Legislating morality. That's a hard thing. See the person in front of you. I don't See the person in front of you. I don't know how you'd enforce that. Just see know how you'd enforce that. Just see know how you'd enforce that. Just see them. them. them. What does it mean to see? What does it mean to see? What does it mean to see? >> Uh see who they are. See >> Uh see who they are. See >> Uh see who they are. See see see who they are on the inside. see see who they are on the inside. see see who they are on the inside. You know in in the avatar universe I see You know in in the avatar universe I see You know in in the avatar universe I see you can mean I understand you. It can you can mean I understand you. It can you can mean I understand you. It can mean very simply I see you. You're here. mean very simply I see you. You're here. mean very simply I see you. You're here. Hello. It's like hello. It can be I see Hello. It's like hello. It can be I see Hello. It's like hello. It can be I see something about you I never saw before. something about you I never saw before. something about you I never saw before. I understand you. It can mean I love I understand you. It can mean I love I understand you. It can mean I love you. meaning that fullness of you. meaning that fullness of you. meaning that fullness of understanding another person that goes understanding another person that goes understanding another person that goes to a to a higher level. It's got many to a to a higher level. It's got many to a to a higher level. It's got many layers of meaning in in Na'vi lore. It's layers of meaning in in Na'vi lore. It's layers of meaning in in Na'vi lore. It's it's very deceptively simple, you know, it's very deceptively simple, you know, it's very deceptively simple, you know, but it goes back to that empathy thing. but it goes back to that empathy thing. but it goes back to that empathy thing. It goes back to the mirror neuron. It It goes back to the mirror neuron. It It goes back to the mirror neuron. It goes back to projecting yourself into goes back to projecting yourself into goes back to projecting yourself into their situation. I also find that their situation. I also find that their situation. I also find that there's a little thing I do where it there's a little thing I do where it there's a little thing I do where it doesn't matter where I am, especially if doesn't matter where I am, especially if doesn't matter where I am, especially if I'm in a car or I'm just meeting some I'm in a car or I'm just meeting some I'm in a car or I'm just meeting some driver that's driving me from the driver that's driving me from the driver that's driving me from the airport or I'm on the street or I'm airport or I'm on the street or I'm airport or I'm on the street or I'm killing time someplace. I just start killing time someplace. I just start killing time someplace. I just start talking to people and I want to hear talking to people and I want to hear talking to people and I want to hear their story, you know, people that their story, you know, people that their story, you know, people that people that the average person would people that the average person would people that the average person would think that a person like me would never think that a person like me would never think that a person like me would never talk to. you know, the the janitor, the talk to. you know, the the janitor, the talk to. you know, the the janitor, the the the guy at selling the churro, the the the guy at selling the churro, the the the guy at selling the churro, the you know, I just want to talk to them. you know, I just want to talk to them. you know, I just want to talk to them. Maybe it's a writer's instinct, you Maybe it's a writer's instinct, you Maybe it's a writer's instinct, you know, to want to hear stories because I know, to want to hear stories because I know, to want to hear stories because I think everybody is a universe. And you think everybody is a universe. And you think everybody is a universe. And you know, that sort of Trump idea that know, that sort of Trump idea that know, that sort of Trump idea that they're all a bunch of losers and they're all a bunch of losers and they're all a bunch of losers and they're not worth worth anything drives they're not worth worth anything drives they're not worth worth anything drives me insane, me insane, me insane, >> you know, cuz it's not about social >> you know, cuz it's not about social >> you know, cuz it's not about social standing or status or having a PhD or or standing or status or having a PhD or or standing or status or having a PhD or or the argument from authority. Oh, his the argument from authority. Oh, his the argument from authority. Oh, his argument may, you know, his opinion is argument may, you know, his opinion is argument may, you know, his opinion is more important than than that person. more important than than that person. more important than than that person. >> You know, I just want to hear >> You know, I just want to hear >> You know, I just want to hear everybody's stories. I find them all everybody's stories. I find them all everybody's stories. I find them all fascinating because we all are on this fascinating because we all are on this fascinating because we all are on this unique path and we're all our camera is unique path and we're all our camera is unique path and we're all our camera is viewing the world from a unique viewing the world from a unique viewing the world from a unique position. position. position. >> I felt that most in uh watching Sully >> I felt that most in uh watching Sully >> I felt that most in uh watching Sully and Courage's relationship through fire and Courage's relationship through fire and Courage's relationship through fire and ash. and ash. and ash. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> There's a lot of seeing each other. >> There's a lot of seeing each other. >> There's a lot of seeing each other. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> In different moments which in moments >> In different moments which in moments >> In different moments which in moments you don't expect it. you don't expect it. you don't expect it. >> Yeah. And you it it the story definitely >> Yeah. And you it it the story definitely >> Yeah. And you it it the story definitely teases to to a potential. teases to to a potential. teases to to a potential. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know. >> You know. >> You know. >> Yeah. Well, we can't give everything >> Yeah. Well, we can't give everything >> Yeah. Well, we can't give everything away. away. away. >> Well, I can't wait to watch it again. >> Well, I can't wait to watch it again. >> Well, I can't wait to watch it again. I'm going to take my family when I get I'm going to take my family when I get I'm going to take my family when I get back to London for Christmas. I'm so back to London for Christmas. I'm so back to London for Christmas. I'm so excited. James, I hope we do see four excited. James, I hope we do see four excited. James, I hope we do see four and five happen. I can't wait to watch and five happen. I can't wait to watch and five happen. I can't wait to watch them. them. them. >> We'll see. We'll see. We'll >> We'll see. We'll see. We'll >> We'll see. We'll see. We'll >> see them. But uh such a pleasure sitting >> see them. But uh such a pleasure sitting >> see them. But uh such a pleasure sitting with you. Thank you for your energy, with you. Thank you for your energy, with you. Thank you for your energy, your presence, your connection with me your presence, your connection with me your presence, your connection with me today and uh I hope for many more. So, today and uh I hope for many more. So, today and uh I hope for many more. So, thank you so much. thank you so much. thank you so much. >> Well, thanks. Thanks, Jay. Uh really >> Well, thanks. Thanks, Jay. Uh really >> Well, thanks. Thanks, Jay. Uh really really a wonderful interview, you know, really a wonderful interview, you know, really a wonderful interview, you know, and I'm glad we got to go to important and I'm glad we got to go to important and I'm glad we got to go to important meaningful things instead of all the meaningful things instead of all the meaningful things instead of all the stupid stuff I normally get asked. stupid stuff I normally get asked. stupid stuff I normally get asked. >> I only asked you one. >> I only asked you one. >> I only asked you one. >> You did. You You definitely went there >> You did. You You definitely went there >> You did. You You definitely went there on that one. But you know what? At this on that one. But you know what? At this on that one. But you know what? At this point, it's like there are worse point, it's like there are worse point, it's like there are worse problems to have than people still problems to have than people still problems to have than people still arguing about the demise of a character arguing about the demise of a character arguing about the demise of a character from 28 years ago. from 28 years ago. from 28 years ago. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know, as a filmmaker, it's kind of >> You know, as a filmmaker, it's kind of >> You know, as a filmmaker, it's kind of like, great, thank you. Thank you for like, great, thank you. Thank you for like, great, thank you. Thank you for that. that. that. >> Well, thank you. If you love this >> Well, thank you. If you love this >> Well, thank you. If you love this episode, I need you to listen to one of episode, I need you to listen to one of episode, I need you to listen to one of my favorite conversations ever. It's my favorite conversations ever. It's my favorite conversations ever. It's with the one and only Tom Holland on how with the one and only Tom Holland on how with the one and only Tom Holland on how to overcome your social anxiety, to overcome your social anxiety, to overcome your social anxiety, especially in situations where you're especially in situations where you're especially in situations where you're not drinking and everyone else is. We not drinking and everyone else is. We not drinking and everyone else is. We talk about his sobriety journey and so talk about his sobriety journey and so talk about his sobriety journey and so much more. He gets really personal. I much more. He gets really personal. I much more. He gets really personal. I can't wait for you to hear it. It's can't wait for you to hear it. It's can't wait for you to hear it. It's going to blow your mind. The quote is, going to blow your mind. The quote is, going to blow your mind. The quote is, "If you have a problem with me, text me. "If you have a problem with me, text me. "If you have a problem with me, text me. And if you don't have my number, you And if you don't have my number, you And if you don't have my number, you don't know me well enough to have a don't know me well enough to have a don't know me well enough to have a problem with