How to Stop Work From Taking Over Your Life | The Happiness Lab podcast

When it comes to feeling happier, the When it comes to feeling happier, the approach we take to work really [music] approach we take to work really [music] approach we take to work really [music] matters. The average American spends matters. The average American spends matters. The average American spends about half of their waking hours on the about half of their waking hours on the about half of their waking hours on the job, which even if you're lucky enough job, which even if you're lucky enough job, which even if you're lucky enough to love what you do, can feel [music] to love what you do, can feel [music] to love what you do, can feel [music] like a lot. But work doesn't always stop like a lot. But work doesn't always stop like a lot. But work doesn't always stop at the end of the workday. And [music] at the end of the workday. And [music] at the end of the workday. And [music] I'm not just talking about all the I'm not just talking about all the I'm not just talking about all the unpaid sorts of work we have to do. The unpaid sorts of work we have to do. The unpaid sorts of work we have to do. The cooking and cleaning and caring for cooking and cleaning and caring for cooking and cleaning and caring for family members. [music] I'm talking family members. [music] I'm talking family members. [music] I'm talking about the paid work that winds up about the paid work that winds up about the paid work that winds up creeping into the little free time we do creeping into the little free time we do creeping into the little free time we do have. have. have. >> The metaphor I use is a pinball machine. >> The metaphor I use is a pinball machine. >> The metaphor I use is a pinball machine. The work shoots out and then [music] it The work shoots out and then [music] it The work shoots out and then [music] it starts dinging to your relationships, to starts dinging to your relationships, to starts dinging to your relationships, to your personal life, to your thoughts, to your personal life, to your thoughts, to your personal life, to your thoughts, to your leisure, to your ability to your leisure, to your ability to your leisure, to your ability to recover, to your self-care. And then recover, to your self-care. And then recover, to your self-care. And then when those become compromised, it makes when those become compromised, it makes when those become compromised, it makes things worse at work, which makes things things worse at work, which makes things things worse at work, which makes things worse outside of work, which makes worse outside of work, which makes worse outside of work, which makes things worse at work, dinging back and things worse at work, dinging back and things worse at work, dinging back and forth. And that stress then [music] forth. And that stress then [music] forth. And that stress then [music] stays in play for so much longer, which stays in play for so much longer, which stays in play for so much longer, which is why we're getting burnt out. This is is why we're getting burnt out. This is is why we're getting burnt out. This is psychologist, [music] podcaster, and psychologist, [music] podcaster, and psychologist, [music] podcaster, and best-selling author, Guy Winch. Guy is best-selling author, Guy Winch. Guy is best-selling author, Guy Winch. Guy is an expert on managing all kinds of tough an expert on managing all kinds of tough an expert on managing all kinds of tough emotions. But his latest book, Mind Over emotions. But his latest book, Mind Over emotions. But his latest book, Mind Over Grind: How to break free when work Grind: How to break free when work Grind: How to break free when work hijacks [music] your life, is all about hijacks [music] your life, is all about hijacks [music] your life, is all about strategies we can use to create a strategies we can use to create a strategies we can use to create a healthier work life balance. [music] healthier work life balance. [music] healthier work life balance. [music] Something Guy admits he wasn't always Something Guy admits he wasn't always Something Guy admits he wasn't always great at. great at. great at. >> Literally a year into my professional >> Literally a year into my professional >> Literally a year into my professional career, I was totally burnt out. I career, I was totally burnt out. I career, I was totally burnt out. I recognized that in an incident where I recognized that in an incident where I recognized that in an incident where I was in the elevator with a neighbor and was in the elevator with a neighbor and was in the elevator with a neighbor and it stalled between floors and the it stalled between floors and the it stalled between floors and the neighbor went into a panic and here I neighbor went into a panic and here I neighbor went into a panic and here I am, a psychologist. I wasn't panicked. I am, a psychologist. I wasn't panicked. I am, a psychologist. I wasn't panicked. I knew what to say to calm him down, but I knew what to say to calm him down, but I knew what to say to calm him down, but I just was incredibly rude and cruel even just was incredibly rude and cruel even just was incredibly rude and cruel even to him. He was just like hitting all the to him. He was just like hitting all the to him. He was just like hitting all the buttons and I was like, "Oh, this is buttons and I was like, "Oh, this is buttons and I was like, "Oh, this is going to take forever to get upstairs going to take forever to get upstairs going to take forever to get upstairs now." And then he was going, "This is my now." And then he was going, "This is my now." And then he was going, "This is my nightmare. This is my nightmare." And my nightmare. This is my nightmare." And my nightmare. This is my nightmare." And my response is, I looked at him and I said, response is, I looked at him and I said, response is, I looked at him and I said, "And this is my nightmare." And it was "And this is my nightmare." And it was "And this is my nightmare." And it was so I mean, it was funny in my head, but so I mean, it was funny in my head, but so I mean, it was funny in my head, but it was terrible. And and when I saw his it was terrible. And and when I saw his it was terrible. And and when I saw his face, I felt such remorse. And I was face, I felt such remorse. And I was face, I felt such remorse. And I was like, "Why did I do that?" And that's like, "Why did I do that?" And that's like, "Why did I do that?" And that's when I realized, oh, cuz I am drained. when I realized, oh, cuz I am drained. when I realized, oh, cuz I am drained. I'm so exhausted. I have like nothing I'm so exhausted. I have like nothing I'm so exhausted. I have like nothing left. And then I realize, wow, I'm a left. And then I realize, wow, I'm a left. And then I realize, wow, I'm a year in and I'm burnt out. year in and I'm burnt out. year in and I'm burnt out. >> And that was a moment of what I know >> And that was a moment of what I know >> And that was a moment of what I know people call depersonalization, where people call depersonalization, where people call depersonalization, where you're kind of annoyed at the intentions you're kind of annoyed at the intentions you're kind of annoyed at the intentions of the people around you. Talk about of the people around you. Talk about of the people around you. Talk about what this feeling of burning out at work what this feeling of burning out at work what this feeling of burning out at work did to your socialization, your did to your socialization, your did to your socialization, your self-care, the other parts of your life. self-care, the other parts of your life. self-care, the other parts of your life. >> So, when you're burnt out at work, but >> So, when you're burnt out at work, but >> So, when you're burnt out at work, but you have to keep going. I'm you have to keep going. I'm you have to keep going. I'm self-employed, so I have to keep going. self-employed, so I have to keep going. self-employed, so I have to keep going. Really, one of the survival mechanisms Really, one of the survival mechanisms Really, one of the survival mechanisms psychologically is you numb. You just psychologically is you numb. You just psychologically is you numb. You just put your head down and get from task to put your head down and get from task to put your head down and get from task to task to task. You're not enjoying what task to task. You're not enjoying what task to task. You're not enjoying what you do. There's no passion for what you you do. There's no passion for what you you do. There's no passion for what you do. You feel jaded about what you do. It do. You feel jaded about what you do. It do. You feel jaded about what you do. It doesn't seem important. It doesn't seem doesn't seem important. It doesn't seem doesn't seem important. It doesn't seem meaningful or fun. And you're not doing meaningful or fun. And you're not doing meaningful or fun. And you're not doing a great job for sure. So, you just a great job for sure. So, you just a great job for sure. So, you just become this robot, this drone truly who become this robot, this drone truly who become this robot, this drone truly who just works and works and works and works just works and works and works and works just works and works and works and works and gets your head down and gets through and gets your head down and gets through and gets your head down and gets through and then wakes up the next morning and and then wakes up the next morning and and then wakes up the next morning and gets through again. And you can't numb gets through again. And you can't numb gets through again. And you can't numb selectively. We know that in psychology. selectively. We know that in psychology. selectively. We know that in psychology. You don't numb some of your feelings in You don't numb some of your feelings in You don't numb some of your feelings in some of the areas. You numb all your some of the areas. You numb all your some of the areas. You numb all your feelings in all of the areas and then feelings in all of the areas and then feelings in all of the areas and then that affects all your life outside of that affects all your life outside of that affects all your life outside of work or lack thereof. In my case, I was work or lack thereof. In my case, I was work or lack thereof. In my case, I was just working and I wasn't tending to any just working and I wasn't tending to any just working and I wasn't tending to any of my other needs. of my other needs. of my other needs. >> If this sounds familiar or you [music] >> If this sounds familiar or you [music] >> If this sounds familiar or you [music] feel like you may be in danger of this feel like you may be in danger of this feel like you may be in danger of this becoming familiar, then this episode is becoming familiar, then this episode is becoming familiar, then this episode is for you [music] for you [music] for you [music] because today Guy and I will explore because today Guy and I will explore because today Guy and I will explore evidence-based strategies for setting evidence-based strategies for setting evidence-based strategies for setting healthier boundaries at work. And we healthier boundaries at work. And we healthier boundaries at work. And we won't be alone. won't be alone. won't be alone. >> [music] >> [music] >> [music] >> We'll be joined by Ben Walter, CEO of >> We'll be joined by Ben Walter, CEO of >> We'll be joined by Ben Walter, CEO of Chase for Business. Ben works [music] Chase for Business. Ben works [music] Chase for Business. Ben works [music] closely with small business owners, just closely with small business owners, just closely with small business owners, just the sorts of entrepreneurs who can't the sorts of entrepreneurs who can't the sorts of entrepreneurs who can't clock out when [music] things get clock out when [music] things get clock out when [music] things get stressful. stressful. stressful. >> I have huge responsibilities at work. I >> I have huge responsibilities at work. I >> I have huge responsibilities at work. I only have so much time to be at home and only have so much time to be at home and only have so much time to be at home and with my family. How [music] could I with my family. How [music] could I with my family. How [music] could I possibly let this creep in in a way that possibly let this creep in in a way that possibly let this creep in in a way that would compromise the limited time that I would compromise the limited time that I would compromise the limited time that I get with them? get with them? get with them? >> So, get ready for strategies you can use >> So, get ready for strategies you can use >> So, get ready for strategies you can use to break free from [music] work stress to break free from [music] work stress to break free from [music] work stress right after the happiness lab returns right after the happiness lab returns right after the happiness lab returns from this quick break. >> [music] >> [music] >> These days, it feels like a lot of >> These days, it feels like a lot of >> These days, it feels like a lot of people are talking about the problem of people are talking about the problem of people are talking about the problem of work stress. And that's in part because work stress. And that's in part because work stress. And that's in part because work stress has gotten really bad. In work stress has gotten really bad. In work stress has gotten really bad. In one 2024 survey, more than 75% of one 2024 survey, more than 75% of one 2024 survey, more than 75% of employees reported that work stress was employees reported that work stress was employees reported that work stress was affecting their physical health. Another affecting their physical health. Another affecting their physical health. Another study estimated that workplace stress study estimated that workplace stress study estimated that workplace stress [music] causes over a 100,000 deaths in [music] causes over a 100,000 deaths in [music] causes over a 100,000 deaths in the US each year. And that's all on top the US each year. And that's all on top the US each year. And that's all on top of the fact that the world right now of the fact that the world right now of the fact that the world right now just feels really hard. just feels really hard. just feels really hard. >> We are in a particular time of >> We are in a particular time of >> We are in a particular time of uncertainty. We have geopolitical uncertainty. We have geopolitical uncertainty. We have geopolitical uncertainty. We have economic uncertainty. We have economic uncertainty. We have economic uncertainty. We have policy uncertainty uncertainty. We have policy uncertainty uncertainty. We have policy uncertainty at records we haven't seen in the past. at records we haven't seen in the past. at records we haven't seen in the past. >> This is Ben Walter, CEO of Chase for >> This is Ben Walter, CEO of Chase for >> This is Ben Walter, CEO of Chase for [music] Business. Chase for Business [music] Business. Chase for Business [music] Business. Chase for Business creates a suite of products for small creates a suite of products for small creates a suite of products for small business owners, entrepreneurs who face business owners, entrepreneurs who face business owners, entrepreneurs who face special kinds of work stresses. So, I special kinds of work stresses. So, I special kinds of work stresses. So, I thought Ben would have a unique thought Ben would have a unique thought Ben would have a unique perspective on fighting stress on the perspective on fighting stress on the perspective on fighting stress on the job. job. job. >> 44% of the economy is small business. >> 44% of the economy is small business. >> 44% of the economy is small business. It's two-thirds of every new job created It's two-thirds of every new job created It's two-thirds of every new job created in America. One of the most fun parts of in America. One of the most fun parts of in America. One of the most fun parts of my job is that I get to host our my job is that I get to host our my job is that I get to host our podcast, The Unshakables, where we meet podcast, The Unshakables, where we meet podcast, The Unshakables, where we meet with those clients and we hear the with those clients and we hear the with those clients and we hear the stories of the really tough things that stories of the really tough things that stories of the really tough things that they've been through, which obviously they've been through, which obviously they've been through, which obviously cause immense amounts of stress. and cause immense amounts of stress. and cause immense amounts of stress. and hear how they were able to overcome hear how they were able to overcome hear how they were able to overcome those obstacles and continue to build those obstacles and continue to build those obstacles and continue to build their businesses. their businesses. their businesses. >> And the obstacles that small business >> And the obstacles that small business >> And the obstacles that small business owners face as they build their owners face as they build their owners face as they build their businesses are many. businesses are many. businesses are many. >> When you are a small business, you are >> When you are a small business, you are >> When you are a small business, you are the head of sales. You are the COO. You the head of sales. You are the COO. You the head of sales. You are the COO. You are the custodian. [laughter] are the custodian. [laughter] are the custodian. [laughter] You are everything in between. Even if You are everything in between. Even if You are everything in between. Even if you have a few employees, it really you have a few employees, it really you have a few employees, it really comes back to you and your identity is comes back to you and your identity is comes back to you and your identity is highly linked with the success of the highly linked with the success of the highly linked with the success of the business and often your personal business and often your personal business and often your personal fortunes as well. And so I think about fortunes as well. And so I think about fortunes as well. And so I think about the difference between sort of home life the difference between sort of home life the difference between sort of home life and work life and the stress that and work life and the stress that and work life and the stress that crosses that line is way way more blurry crosses that line is way way more blurry crosses that line is way way more blurry for a small business owner even than it for a small business owner even than it for a small business owner even than it is for the most hardened seasoned is for the most hardened seasoned is for the most hardened seasoned high-powered professional in a corporate high-powered professional in a corporate high-powered professional in a corporate environment. There just simply is no way environment. There just simply is no way environment. There just simply is no way to separate them in the same way. Most to separate them in the same way. Most to separate them in the same way. Most small business owners, if you have debt, small business owners, if you have debt, small business owners, if you have debt, you are personally guaranteeing that you are personally guaranteeing that you are personally guaranteeing that debt with your personal assets. Every debt with your personal assets. Every debt with your personal assets. Every time that business makes a decision, time that business makes a decision, time that business makes a decision, your personal reputation is on the line. your personal reputation is on the line. your personal reputation is on the line. And then you compound on the environment And then you compound on the environment And then you compound on the environment we're in right now in this heady froth we're in right now in this heady froth we're in right now in this heady froth of uncertainty and you can see where you of uncertainty and you can see where you of uncertainty and you can see where you end up. end up. end up. >> And at this high level of stress, where >> And at this high level of stress, where >> And at this high level of stress, where you usually end up is not such a great you usually end up is not such a great you usually end up is not such a great place. place. place. >> The downstream effects are obviously >> The downstream effects are obviously >> The downstream effects are obviously terrible on relationships, on your terrible on relationships, on your terrible on relationships, on your ability to execute, on your ability to execute, on your ability to execute, on your self-satisfaction, on your happiness self-satisfaction, on your happiness self-satisfaction, on your happiness with life, on all of those things. The with life, on all of those things. The with life, on all of those things. The blurring of work and home stress is blurring of work and home stress is blurring of work and home stress is something small business owners something small business owners something small business owners experience intensely, but it's something experience intensely, but it's something experience intensely, but it's something that employees in all roles are feeling that employees in all roles are feeling that employees in all roles are feeling more and more. When work stress spills more and more. When work stress spills more and more. When work stress spills into home life, it can turn into a into home life, it can turn into a into home life, it can turn into a vicious cycle that can feel almost vicious cycle that can feel almost vicious cycle that can feel almost impossible to escape. But the science of impossible to escape. But the science of impossible to escape. But the science of stress shows something surprising. stress shows something surprising. stress shows something surprising. Having at least a little stress is Having at least a little stress is Having at least a little stress is actually good. And when we have no actually good. And when we have no actually good. And when we have no stress, we actually don't always get stress, we actually don't always get stress, we actually don't always get that creative and we don't work the that creative and we don't work the that creative and we don't work the extra little bit to do it because there extra little bit to do it because there extra little bit to do it because there isn't the pressure to do it. The moment isn't the pressure to do it. The moment isn't the pressure to do it. The moment it stops being channeled into that and it stops being channeled into that and it stops being channeled into that and is channeled into your personal is channeled into your personal is channeled into your personal relationships or unhealthy eating or relationships or unhealthy eating or relationships or unhealthy eating or mind spinning anxiety, that's the point mind spinning anxiety, that's the point mind spinning anxiety, that's the point at which I think it starts to detract at which I think it starts to detract at which I think it starts to detract rather than enhance your ability to make rather than enhance your ability to make rather than enhance your ability to make the best use of it. the best use of it. the best use of it. >> And then it's just bringing up a really >> And then it's just bringing up a really >> And then it's just bringing up a really important point that we've known in the important point that we've known in the important point that we've known in the science since the 1950s. Like back in science since the 1950s. Like back in science since the 1950s. Like back in the 1950s, people were like, is stress the 1950s, people were like, is stress the 1950s, people were like, is stress good? Is it bad? It's both. It's what good? Is it bad? It's both. It's what good? Is it bad? It's both. It's what folks call an inverted U function. This folks call an inverted U function. This folks call an inverted U function. This is this famous thing called the Yorks is this famous thing called the Yorks is this famous thing called the Yorks Dodson curve, which at no stress, when Dodson curve, which at no stress, when Dodson curve, which at no stress, when you're kind of at the bottom of stress, you're kind of at the bottom of stress, you're kind of at the bottom of stress, you're not getting anything done. You you're not getting anything done. You you're not getting anything done. You could barely get out of bed. You're not could barely get out of bed. You're not could barely get out of bed. You're not excited for work. But then as stress excited for work. But then as stress excited for work. But then as stress goes up, you hit some optimal middle goes up, you hit some optimal middle goes up, you hit some optimal middle point with the stress where you're like, point with the stress where you're like, point with the stress where you're like, I'm excited. There's some pressure. I'm excited. There's some pressure. I'm excited. There's some pressure. We're going to get through this. But We're going to get through this. But We're going to get through this. But then there's a tipping point where it's then there's a tipping point where it's then there's a tipping point where it's like curve, a bell curve. No, it's too like curve, a bell curve. No, it's too like curve, a bell curve. No, it's too much. Now I'm screaming at my kids. I'm much. Now I'm screaming at my kids. I'm much. Now I'm screaming at my kids. I'm not getting to the gym. And it becomes a not getting to the gym. And it becomes a not getting to the gym. And it becomes a little bit too much. One of my favorite little bit too much. One of my favorite little bit too much. One of my favorite phrases I got from my daughter when she phrases I got from my daughter when she phrases I got from my daughter when she was in the fourth grade. We moved to was in the fourth grade. We moved to was in the fourth grade. We moved to London for a couple years for work. And London for a couple years for work. And London for a couple years for work. And I remember looking at her and saying, I remember looking at her and saying, I remember looking at her and saying, "Honey, are you nervous to move to "Honey, are you nervous to move to "Honey, are you nervous to move to London or are you excited? What's the London or are you excited? What's the London or are you excited? What's the deal?" And she looked at me. She was 10 deal?" And she looked at me. She was 10 deal?" And she looked at me. She was 10 years old or whatever she was. She said, years old or whatever she was. She said, years old or whatever she was. She said, "I think I'm kind of nervesighted, Dad." "I think I'm kind of nervesighted, Dad." "I think I'm kind of nervesighted, Dad." [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] I just love that phrase and it's stuck I just love that phrase and it's stuck I just love that phrase and it's stuck with me ever since. When I'm with me ever since. When I'm with me ever since. When I'm nervesighted about something, I'm nervesighted about something, I'm nervesighted about something, I'm probably going to do pretty well. probably going to do pretty well. probably going to do pretty well. >> So, how do we keep our stress low enough >> So, how do we keep our stress low enough >> So, how do we keep our stress low enough that it works for us rather than against that it works for us rather than against that it works for us rather than against us? How do we stay nerve-sighted rather us? How do we stay nerve-sighted rather us? How do we stay nerve-sighted rather than freaked out? Psychologist and than freaked out? Psychologist and than freaked out? Psychologist and author Guy Winch has found that how we author Guy Winch has found that how we author Guy Winch has found that how we think about stress matters a lot. Stress think about stress matters a lot. Stress think about stress matters a lot. Stress is very psychological to begin with. It is very psychological to begin with. It is very psychological to begin with. It really depends on how you perceive the really depends on how you perceive the really depends on how you perceive the quote unquote threats, pressures around quote unquote threats, pressures around quote unquote threats, pressures around you and whether you feel able to manage you and whether you feel able to manage you and whether you feel able to manage them. And one of the things we do at them. And one of the things we do at them. And one of the things we do at work, which I think most people do, is work, which I think most people do, is work, which I think most people do, is they frame their jobs in ways that add they frame their jobs in ways that add they frame their jobs in ways that add stress to their lives. A simple way is stress to their lives. A simple way is stress to their lives. A simple way is things like, oh, my job is really, things like, oh, my job is really, things like, oh, my job is really, really stressful or I hate my work or my really stressful or I hate my work or my really stressful or I hate my work or my boss hates me or like I can't stand boss hates me or like I can't stand boss hates me or like I can't stand every second in that office. When you every second in that office. When you every second in that office. When you frame it in that generalized way, what frame it in that generalized way, what frame it in that generalized way, what you're doing is that you are you're doing is that you are you're doing is that you are predisposing yourself to perceive every predisposing yourself to perceive every predisposing yourself to perceive every moment at work as punishing, as moment at work as punishing, as moment at work as punishing, as difficult. And that means that you are difficult. And that means that you are difficult. And that means that you are anticipating threats. And so you are in anticipating threats. And so you are in anticipating threats. And so you are in fight or flight. You are highly fight or flight. You are highly fight or flight. You are highly activated and charged. You will perceive activated and charged. You will perceive activated and charged. You will perceive even the small ambivalent slight as ah even the small ambivalent slight as ah even the small ambivalent slight as ah here's another thing. You'll tend to here's another thing. You'll tend to here's another thing. You'll tend to miss those moments that aren't. And miss those moments that aren't. And miss those moments that aren't. And there is no job that's stressful all of there is no job that's stressful all of there is no job that's stressful all of the time. There just isn't. Even if you the time. There just isn't. Even if you the time. There just isn't. Even if you have terrible meetings that day, you have terrible meetings that day, you have terrible meetings that day, you have a few that aren't so terrible. You have a few that aren't so terrible. You have a few that aren't so terrible. You have an hour that's boring. You have 15 have an hour that's boring. You have 15 have an hour that's boring. You have 15 minutes where you can bring your minutes where you can bring your minutes where you can bring your favorite lunch and actually sit in the favorite lunch and actually sit in the favorite lunch and actually sit in the park and maybe take a break. There's got park and maybe take a break. There's got park and maybe take a break. There's got to be someone in the office, one person to be someone in the office, one person to be someone in the office, one person that you actually can stomach and it's that you actually can stomach and it's that you actually can stomach and it's not too bad seeing them when you see not too bad seeing them when you see not too bad seeing them when you see them. You know, your boss can't be evil them. You know, your boss can't be evil them. You know, your boss can't be evil every second of the day because even every second of the day because even every second of the day because even Disney villains aren't. But when you Disney villains aren't. But when you Disney villains aren't. But when you frame it that way, you are literally frame it that way, you are literally frame it that way, you are literally priming yourself to experience priming yourself to experience priming yourself to experience everything as way more stressful than it everything as way more stressful than it everything as way more stressful than it actually is. And it's such a simple actually is. And it's such a simple actually is. And it's such a simple correction you can make in your head. correction you can make in your head. correction you can make in your head. Because the idea is actually to correct Because the idea is actually to correct Because the idea is actually to correct to accuracy and nuance, not to fantasy, to accuracy and nuance, not to fantasy, to accuracy and nuance, not to fantasy, but just to be more accurate. but just to be more accurate. but just to be more accurate. >> This also gets to this idea that we can >> This also gets to this idea that we can >> This also gets to this idea that we can be in these different modes when it be in these different modes when it be in these different modes when it comes to how we think about stress. We comes to how we think about stress. We comes to how we think about stress. We can be in what you've just talked about, can be in what you've just talked about, can be in what you've just talked about, which is a real threat mode, right? like which is a real threat mode, right? like which is a real threat mode, right? like everything is so terrible all the time. everything is so terrible all the time. everything is so terrible all the time. But there's a flip mode that we can take But there's a flip mode that we can take But there's a flip mode that we can take when we're dealing with stressful when we're dealing with stressful when we're dealing with stressful situations, which is sort of a challenge situations, which is sort of a challenge situations, which is sort of a challenge mode. What's the difference between mode. What's the difference between mode. What's the difference between these two modes and how do we react these two modes and how do we react these two modes and how do we react psychologically when we're in one versus psychologically when we're in one versus psychologically when we're in one versus the other? the other? the other? >> So the threat versus the challenge >> So the threat versus the challenge >> So the threat versus the challenge mindset theory, it's it's the prevailing mindset theory, it's it's the prevailing mindset theory, it's it's the prevailing theory in sports psychology. And the theory in sports psychology. And the theory in sports psychology. And the distinction is are you going into a distinction is are you going into a distinction is are you going into a situation seeing it as a challenge to situation seeing it as a challenge to situation seeing it as a challenge to which you plan to rise? Are you going in which you plan to rise? Are you going in which you plan to rise? Are you going in with the idea of I'm going to win, I'm with the idea of I'm going to win, I'm with the idea of I'm going to win, I'm going to smash this? or are you going in going to smash this? or are you going in going to smash this? or are you going in because you're seeing it as a threat and because you're seeing it as a threat and because you're seeing it as a threat and then what you're trying to do is not then what you're trying to do is not then what you're trying to do is not lose like I hope this doesn't go badly. lose like I hope this doesn't go badly. lose like I hope this doesn't go badly. I hope I don't embarrass myself. Now I hope I don't embarrass myself. Now I hope I don't embarrass myself. Now you're trying to succeed in both you're trying to succeed in both you're trying to succeed in both mindsets, but in one you're going in mindsets, but in one you're going in mindsets, but in one you're going in feeling confident, feeling in control, feeling confident, feeling in control, feeling confident, feeling in control, feeling like you're prepared, and in the feeling like you're prepared, and in the feeling like you're prepared, and in the other one you're going in other one you're going in other one you're going in second-guessing, wondering, anticipating second-guessing, wondering, anticipating second-guessing, wondering, anticipating threats. And those mindsets have a major threats. And those mindsets have a major threats. And those mindsets have a major difference not in just how we conduct difference not in just how we conduct difference not in just how we conduct ourselves and think in the situation but ourselves and think in the situation but ourselves and think in the situation but in how our brain responds in the in how our brain responds in the in how our brain responds in the hormones that cause through our body in hormones that cause through our body in hormones that cause through our body in that moment. And so the threat mindset that moment. And so the threat mindset that moment. And so the threat mindset is a really problematic one. It is a really problematic one. It is a really problematic one. It predisposes you to do poorly to not be predisposes you to do poorly to not be predisposes you to do poorly to not be able to draw on your abilities as well. able to draw on your abilities as well. able to draw on your abilities as well. And we psych ourselves out at work And we psych ourselves out at work And we psych ourselves out at work without realizing that we are creating a without realizing that we are creating a without realizing that we are creating a selfdefeating prophecy. So, we really selfdefeating prophecy. So, we really selfdefeating prophecy. So, we really can't afford to tell ourselves, "Oh, no. can't afford to tell ourselves, "Oh, no. can't afford to tell ourselves, "Oh, no. I can't handle that because you won't be I can't handle that because you won't be I can't handle that because you won't be able to handle it if you say that." able to handle it if you say that." able to handle it if you say that." >> I imagine there must be some cases when >> I imagine there must be some cases when >> I imagine there must be some cases when we really should be in more of a threat we really should be in more of a threat we really should be in more of a threat mindset, right? If we're really actually mindset, right? If we're really actually mindset, right? If we're really actually in danger, are there ways to know in danger, are there ways to know in danger, are there ways to know whether it's just the framing or whether whether it's just the framing or whether whether it's just the framing or whether it's the real situation that we're it's the real situation that we're it's the real situation that we're facing that could be potentially facing that could be potentially facing that could be potentially problematic? problematic? problematic? >> Well, yes, because we tend to be >> Well, yes, because we tend to be >> Well, yes, because we tend to be pessimistic. You know, zoom out for a pessimistic. You know, zoom out for a pessimistic. You know, zoom out for a minute. Is this really problematic? Are minute. Is this really problematic? Are minute. Is this really problematic? Are you really in over your head or are you you really in over your head or are you you really in over your head or are you just nervous that things might not go just nervous that things might not go just nervous that things might not go well? If you are really in over your well? If you are really in over your well? If you are really in over your head, that's about problem solving. head, that's about problem solving. head, that's about problem solving. That's about okay, let me redefine That's about okay, let me redefine That's about okay, let me redefine what's the best I can do here. And be what's the best I can do here. And be what's the best I can do here. And be realistic in terms of this is is going realistic in terms of this is is going realistic in terms of this is is going to be problematic. Let me see if I can to be problematic. Let me see if I can to be problematic. Let me see if I can get more help, if I can get an get more help, if I can get an get more help, if I can get an extension, if I can beef up my resources extension, if I can beef up my resources extension, if I can beef up my resources cuz I am not equipped to deal with this cuz I am not equipped to deal with this cuz I am not equipped to deal with this in that moment. But if it's just in that moment. But if it's just in that moment. But if it's just psychological, if it's worry, you know, psychological, if it's worry, you know, psychological, if it's worry, you know, a lot of people just like secondguessing a lot of people just like secondguessing a lot of people just like secondguessing themselves. they have a little bit of a themselves. they have a little bit of a themselves. they have a little bit of a fear of failure. So that's when you want fear of failure. So that's when you want fear of failure. So that's when you want to shift mindset. to shift mindset. to shift mindset. >> And so how do we shift the mindset? How >> And so how do we shift the mindset? How >> And so how do we shift the mindset? How do we move from a threat mode to more of do we move from a threat mode to more of do we move from a threat mode to more of a challenge mode? What are some a challenge mode? What are some a challenge mode? What are some strategies? strategies? strategies? >> One is the idea of preparation. You >> One is the idea of preparation. You >> One is the idea of preparation. You really want to be prepared. Like if really want to be prepared. Like if really want to be prepared. Like if you're worried about something, your you're worried about something, your you're worried about something, your unconscious mind might be like, "Hey, I unconscious mind might be like, "Hey, I unconscious mind might be like, "Hey, I know this is a perfect time to surf know this is a perfect time to surf know this is a perfect time to surf social media." Or, "Oh, why don't you do social media." Or, "Oh, why don't you do social media." Or, "Oh, why don't you do a to-do list for the groceries you're a to-do list for the groceries you're a to-do list for the groceries you're going to be shopping for later?" That going to be shopping for later?" That going to be shopping for later?" That will be way more fun than dealing with will be way more fun than dealing with will be way more fun than dealing with the anxiety of thinking about this thing the anxiety of thinking about this thing the anxiety of thinking about this thing that's coming up. That's what you have that's coming up. That's what you have that's coming up. That's what you have to catch because that's going to be a to catch because that's going to be a to catch because that's going to be a problem. You want to be super prepared problem. You want to be super prepared problem. You want to be super prepared because the more prepared you are, the because the more prepared you are, the because the more prepared you are, the more confident you'll be. more confident you'll be. more confident you'll be. >> I asked small business expert Ben Walter >> I asked small business expert Ben Walter >> I asked small business expert Ben Walter what that kind of preparation actually what that kind of preparation actually what that kind of preparation actually looks like in practice, especially when looks like in practice, especially when looks like in practice, especially when you're not sure where to start. you're not sure where to start. you're not sure where to start. >> I lean heavily on structured frameworks. >> I lean heavily on structured frameworks. >> I lean heavily on structured frameworks. And reformed consultant, hand in the And reformed consultant, hand in the And reformed consultant, hand in the air, so I admit it. I used to be a air, so I admit it. I used to be a air, so I admit it. I used to be a management consultant. Consultants are management consultant. Consultants are management consultant. Consultants are basically paid to deal with ambiguity. basically paid to deal with ambiguity. basically paid to deal with ambiguity. That's kind of what you do. So, I used That's kind of what you do. So, I used That's kind of what you do. So, I used to joke when I was a consultant that to joke when I was a consultant that to joke when I was a consultant that they should give me a new title and I they should give me a new title and I they should give me a new title and I should no longer be senior consultant or should no longer be senior consultant or should no longer be senior consultant or whatever I was. I should be senior whatever I was. I should be senior whatever I was. I should be senior executive vice president of bucketing. executive vice president of bucketing. executive vice president of bucketing. And that sounds a little silly, but if And that sounds a little silly, but if And that sounds a little silly, but if you can just take some ambiguous problem you can just take some ambiguous problem you can just take some ambiguous problem and break it into pieces, part A, part and break it into pieces, part A, part and break it into pieces, part A, part B, part C, and start categorizing the B, part C, and start categorizing the B, part C, and start categorizing the world into those buckets. And I will world into those buckets. And I will world into those buckets. And I will confess, I'm a disorganized person. I confess, I'm a disorganized person. I confess, I'm a disorganized person. I know that about myself. I know that my know that about myself. I know that my know that about myself. I know that my lack of organization causes me stress. lack of organization causes me stress. lack of organization causes me stress. So I have built structures into my life So I have built structures into my life So I have built structures into my life that force organization for me and for that force organization for me and for that force organization for me and for the business that I run which give me a the business that I run which give me a the business that I run which give me a scaffolding on which to not get as scaffolding on which to not get as scaffolding on which to not get as stressed when the inevitable stuff comes stressed when the inevitable stuff comes stressed when the inevitable stuff comes up. So I'll give you an example of that. up. So I'll give you an example of that. up. So I'll give you an example of that. Every year I have five deliverables for Every year I have five deliverables for Every year I have five deliverables for my business. I'm very clear about what my business. I'm very clear about what my business. I'm very clear about what it is. This is what we're going to it is. This is what we're going to it is. This is what we're going to achieve this year. We have KPIs against achieve this year. We have KPIs against achieve this year. We have KPIs against all of those. It's all written down. I all of those. It's all written down. I all of those. It's all written down. I meet with my team once a month. We go meet with my team once a month. We go meet with my team once a month. We go through that checklist. I know where through that checklist. I know where through that checklist. I know where we're red, amber, and green. I know we're red, amber, and green. I know we're red, amber, and green. I know what's going well. I know where they're what's going well. I know where they're what's going well. I know where they're stuck that I need to get in there and stuck that I need to get in there and stuck that I need to get in there and help and unblock. When I have that in help and unblock. When I have that in help and unblock. When I have that in place, I find that all of the grenades place, I find that all of the grenades place, I find that all of the grenades that get thrown in don't phase me that get thrown in don't phase me that get thrown in don't phase me because I don't have that wild crazy because I don't have that wild crazy because I don't have that wild crazy disorganization going on on the core of disorganization going on on the core of disorganization going on on the core of the business. And so, I've learned like the business. And so, I've learned like the business. And so, I've learned like this causes me stress. I'm not good at this causes me stress. I'm not good at this causes me stress. I'm not good at it. I'm going to build infrastructure it. I'm going to build infrastructure it. I'm going to build infrastructure and hire people who are good at it and and hire people who are good at it and and hire people who are good at it and compensate for me in all kinds of ways compensate for me in all kinds of ways compensate for me in all kinds of ways so that I have that as a scaffolding on so that I have that as a scaffolding on so that I have that as a scaffolding on which to operate. which to operate. which to operate. >> It also seems like this is another great >> It also seems like this is another great >> It also seems like this is another great case of bucketing in ways that feel case of bucketing in ways that feel case of bucketing in ways that feel really healthy. a colleague of mine who really healthy. a colleague of mine who really healthy. a colleague of mine who is always doing all these things and I is always doing all these things and I is always doing all these things and I was like how do you keep all those balls was like how do you keep all those balls was like how do you keep all those balls in the air all the time and she once in the air all the time and she once in the air all the time and she once said the key is to recognize that some said the key is to recognize that some said the key is to recognize that some balls are glass and some balls are balls are glass and some balls are balls are glass and some balls are plastic and you can let the plastic ones plastic and you can let the plastic ones plastic and you can let the plastic ones fall but you got to catch the glass ones fall but you got to catch the glass ones fall but you got to catch the glass ones and it seems like this clear structure and it seems like this clear structure and it seems like this clear structure like these are the five deliverables like these are the five deliverables like these are the five deliverables it's like those are glass the plastic it's like those are glass the plastic it's like those are glass the plastic ones fall not great but oh well as long ones fall not great but oh well as long ones fall not great but oh well as long as we catch those glass ones we'll be as we catch those glass ones we'll be as we catch those glass ones we'll be all right all right all right >> it's a good metaphor organization will >> it's a good metaphor organization will >> it's a good metaphor organization will set you free and I I say that as someone set you free and I I say that as someone set you free and I I say that as someone who inherently just isn't that organized who inherently just isn't that organized who inherently just isn't that organized But it's true. Some sense of organizing But it's true. Some sense of organizing But it's true. Some sense of organizing structure literally brings your stress structure literally brings your stress structure literally brings your stress level down. Similarly with uncertainty. level down. Similarly with uncertainty. level down. Similarly with uncertainty. Okay, let me put down a framework on Okay, let me put down a framework on Okay, let me put down a framework on paper. Here are the things I control. paper. Here are the things I control. paper. Here are the things I control. Here are the things I don't control. I'm Here are the things I don't control. I'm Here are the things I don't control. I'm going to focus on the things that I can going to focus on the things that I can going to focus on the things that I can control. I'm going to tick off that control. I'm going to tick off that control. I'm going to tick off that list. That other stuff is out there, but list. That other stuff is out there, but list. That other stuff is out there, but I cannot control that. It gives you a I cannot control that. It gives you a I cannot control that. It gives you a way forward. It gives you a checklist. way forward. It gives you a checklist. way forward. It gives you a checklist. It gives you something that you can It gives you something that you can It gives you something that you can start to act on instead of freezing in start to act on instead of freezing in start to act on instead of freezing in the face of all of this uncertainty and the face of all of this uncertainty and the face of all of this uncertainty and ambiguity. We had someone on the ambiguity. We had someone on the ambiguity. We had someone on the podcast, for example, it was a coffee podcast, for example, it was a coffee podcast, for example, it was a coffee company called Luna Gourmet Coffee and company called Luna Gourmet Coffee and company called Luna Gourmet Coffee and their entire roastery burnt to the their entire roastery burnt to the their entire roastery burnt to the ground. Like ashes on the ground, ground. Like ashes on the ground, ground. Like ashes on the ground, smoldering. They lost a ton of smoldering. They lost a ton of smoldering. They lost a ton of inventory. They lost all their ability inventory. They lost all their ability inventory. They lost all their ability to roast. And I was asking them like, to roast. And I was asking them like, to roast. And I was asking them like, "How do you not freeze in the what do "How do you not freeze in the what do "How do you not freeze in the what do you do?" And he said, "Well, we knew we you do?" And he said, "Well, we knew we you do?" And he said, "Well, we knew we wanted to rebuild that minute." And so wanted to rebuild that minute." And so wanted to rebuild that minute." And so we just got to work and we made a list. we just got to work and we made a list. we just got to work and we made a list. What do we need to do in the interim? We What do we need to do in the interim? We What do we need to do in the interim? We have some backup inventory. How are we have some backup inventory. How are we have some backup inventory. How are we going to manufacture in the meantime? going to manufacture in the meantime? going to manufacture in the meantime? When do we call the insurance company? When do we call the insurance company? When do we call the insurance company? And they split up the list and just got And they split up the list and just got And they split up the list and just got at it. And I'm sure it wasn't quite that at it. And I'm sure it wasn't quite that at it. And I'm sure it wasn't quite that easy. easy. easy. But they just talked about, you know, But they just talked about, you know, But they just talked about, you know, immediately going into sort and action, immediately going into sort and action, immediately going into sort and action, sort and action, sort and action. I sort and action, sort and action. I sort and action, sort and action. I think for most people there's a piece think for most people there's a piece think for most people there's a piece that comes with that because I can speak that comes with that because I can speak that comes with that because I can speak for myself. Staring at something and for myself. Staring at something and for myself. Staring at something and going, I don't know what to do next is going, I don't know what to do next is going, I don't know what to do next is completely paralyzing and you have to completely paralyzing and you have to completely paralyzing and you have to give yourself a way forward because when give yourself a way forward because when give yourself a way forward because when you're just frozen, it's a you're just frozen, it's a you're just frozen, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy, self-fulfilling prophecy, self-fulfilling prophecy, >> right? That's when the rumination gets >> right? That's when the rumination gets >> right? That's when the rumination gets going. If I can't control this, I can't going. If I can't control this, I can't going. If I can't control this, I can't do anything. do anything. do anything. >> Then you're in an anxiety spiral. >> Then you're in an anxiety spiral. >> Then you're in an anxiety spiral. But there's another way to prevent the But there's another way to prevent the But there's another way to prevent the anxiety spirals that contribute [music] anxiety spirals that contribute [music] anxiety spirals that contribute [music] to so much work stress. We need to to so much work stress. We need to to so much work stress. We need to control our inner monologue. And we'll control our inner monologue. And we'll control our inner monologue. And we'll hear some practical strategies for doing hear some practical strategies for doing hear some practical strategies for doing that when the happiness lab returns in that when the happiness lab returns in that when the happiness lab returns in [music] a moment. [music] [music] We have an unconscious mind, an We have an unconscious mind, an We have an unconscious mind, an automatic mind. And it's not a automatic mind. And it's not a automatic mind. And it's not a self-organized thing. It's not a self-organized thing. It's not a self-organized thing. It's not a self-conscious thing. But it does self-conscious thing. But it does self-conscious thing. But it does listen. It does pick [music] up on the listen. It does pick [music] up on the listen. It does pick [music] up on the messages we give to ourselves. messages we give to ourselves. messages we give to ourselves. >> Psychologist and work stress expert Guy >> Psychologist and work stress expert Guy >> Psychologist and work stress expert Guy Winch argues that we need to be a lot Winch argues that we need to be a lot Winch argues that we need to be a lot more careful about the inadvertent more careful about the inadvertent more careful about the inadvertent messages we're allowing our poor minds messages we're allowing our poor minds messages we're allowing our poor minds to hear on repeat. to hear on repeat. to hear on repeat. >> And so many of us tend to have so >> And so many of us tend to have so >> And so many of us tend to have so negative self-t talk that we are negative self-t talk that we are negative self-t talk that we are replaying doubts even as we're trying to replaying doubts even as we're trying to replaying doubts even as we're trying to prepare like oh but things never go well prepare like oh but things never go well prepare like oh but things never go well for me and the boss just never likes me for me and the boss just never likes me for me and the boss just never likes me no matter what I do. And then your no matter what I do. And then your no matter what I do. And then your unconscious mind is hearing that. And unconscious mind is hearing that. And unconscious mind is hearing that. And why should you then feel confident? It's why should you then feel confident? It's why should you then feel confident? It's going to generate anxiety. It's going to going to generate anxiety. It's going to going to generate anxiety. It's going to generate doubt. And you can't say to generate doubt. And you can't say to generate doubt. And you can't say to your unconscious mind, feel confident your unconscious mind, feel confident your unconscious mind, feel confident because it's unconscious. That's not how because it's unconscious. That's not how because it's unconscious. That's not how it works. But you can whisper to it by it works. But you can whisper to it by it works. But you can whisper to it by changing your self-t talk to, wow, I'm changing your self-t talk to, wow, I'm changing your self-t talk to, wow, I'm really preparing more than I ever have really preparing more than I ever have really preparing more than I ever have before. Or like, I am so glad I'm before. Or like, I am so glad I'm before. Or like, I am so glad I'm investing all this time doing what I investing all this time doing what I investing all this time doing what I can. I'm so glad I I reached out to a can. I'm so glad I I reached out to a can. I'm so glad I I reached out to a few people to get help because now I few people to get help because now I few people to get help because now I feel much more confident. Now I'm really feel much more confident. Now I'm really feel much more confident. Now I'm really doing everything I can. you can message doing everything I can. you can message doing everything I can. you can message the confidence, the preparation, the the confidence, the preparation, the the confidence, the preparation, the control, those are the things you want control, those are the things you want control, those are the things you want to be messaging. And so you really want to be messaging. And so you really want to be messaging. And so you really want to watch that internal dialogue. to watch that internal dialogue. to watch that internal dialogue. >> You've also noted that when we try to >> You've also noted that when we try to >> You've also noted that when we try to change our internal dialogue. It has to change our internal dialogue. It has to change our internal dialogue. It has to be believable. We can't just be like, be believable. We can't just be like, be believable. We can't just be like, "Oh, it's perfect. Nothing's going to be "Oh, it's perfect. Nothing's going to be "Oh, it's perfect. Nothing's going to be stressful today. I'm not worried about stressful today. I'm not worried about stressful today. I'm not worried about that terrible quarterly report I have that terrible quarterly report I have that terrible quarterly report I have coming up." How do we hack the coming up." How do we hack the coming up." How do we hack the believability of that selft talk better? believability of that selft talk better? believability of that selft talk better? >> You just have to be accurate. Don't just >> You just have to be accurate. Don't just >> You just have to be accurate. Don't just tell yourself, "I am the best tell yourself, "I am the best tell yourself, "I am the best salesperson in the entire department." salesperson in the entire department." salesperson in the entire department." But if your track record doesn't show But if your track record doesn't show But if your track record doesn't show that, you can say to yourself, "Here's that, you can say to yourself, "Here's that, you can say to yourself, "Here's where I stand in terms of sales and I'm where I stand in terms of sales and I'm where I stand in terms of sales and I'm putting in all this work now because I putting in all this work now because I putting in all this work now because I think I can really improve and move up think I can really improve and move up think I can really improve and move up that list." That is accurate to the that list." That is accurate to the that list." That is accurate to the extent that you're actually putting in extent that you're actually putting in extent that you're actually putting in the time and the effort to improve. So, the time and the effort to improve. So, the time and the effort to improve. So, you want to be accurate, but you want to you want to be accurate, but you want to you want to be accurate, but you want to be accurate/ optimistic. be accurate/ optimistic. be accurate/ optimistic. >> And Guy argues that another thing we >> And Guy argues that another thing we >> And Guy argues that another thing we need to be accurate about is how we need to be accurate about is how we need to be accurate about is how we choose to name the annoying tasks we choose to name the annoying tasks we choose to name the annoying tasks we face at work. A lot of the times when we face at work. A lot of the times when we face at work. A lot of the times when we procrastinate or when something stresses procrastinate or when something stresses procrastinate or when something stresses us out, it's because we feel it's an us out, it's because we feel it's an us out, it's because we feel it's an unpleasant task. It can be unpleasant to unpleasant task. It can be unpleasant to unpleasant task. It can be unpleasant to us because it's anxietyprovoking, it's us because it's anxietyprovoking, it's us because it's anxietyprovoking, it's stressful, it's unpleasant, it's boring. stressful, it's unpleasant, it's boring. stressful, it's unpleasant, it's boring. However we define it, you know, it can However we define it, you know, it can However we define it, you know, it can be an expense account. That's too boring be an expense account. That's too boring be an expense account. That's too boring for me. It can be the difficult email to for me. It can be the difficult email to for me. It can be the difficult email to write this difficult person. H that's write this difficult person. H that's write this difficult person. H that's stressful. And when we think about tasks stressful. And when we think about tasks stressful. And when we think about tasks that way, a they stress us out and b that way, a they stress us out and b that way, a they stress us out and b we're really inclined to procrastinate we're really inclined to procrastinate we're really inclined to procrastinate and put them off because we don't want and put them off because we don't want and put them off because we don't want to sit with those unpleasant feelings. to sit with those unpleasant feelings. to sit with those unpleasant feelings. And when we do that, we're taking the And when we do that, we're taking the And when we do that, we're taking the 15-inute task, say 15 minutes of 15-inute task, say 15 minutes of 15-inute task, say 15 minutes of unpleasantness, and we're smearing it unpleasantness, and we're smearing it unpleasantness, and we're smearing it over an entire week by putting it off over an entire week by putting it off over an entire week by putting it off and then thinking about it all the time and then thinking about it all the time and then thinking about it all the time and then getting more worried about it and then getting more worried about it and then getting more worried about it and more stressed about putting it off. and more stressed about putting it off. and more stressed about putting it off. Now I really have to do it, but I don't Now I really have to do it, but I don't Now I really have to do it, but I don't want to do it. So you actually took want to do it. So you actually took want to do it. So you actually took something that's limited in terms of the something that's limited in terms of the something that's limited in terms of the unpleasantness and you superersized it. unpleasantness and you superersized it. unpleasantness and you superersized it. Now, if you redefine the task that you Now, if you redefine the task that you Now, if you redefine the task that you tend to put off like that or you tend to tend to put off like that or you tend to tend to put off like that or you tend to find unpleasant as nuisances, which they find unpleasant as nuisances, which they find unpleasant as nuisances, which they are, nuisances are things we tend to are, nuisances are things we tend to are, nuisances are things we tend to take care of right away. When it's a take care of right away. When it's a take care of right away. When it's a nuisance, there's a fly, there's a nuisance, there's a fly, there's a nuisance, there's a fly, there's a pebble in your shoe, no one is on a hike pebble in your shoe, no one is on a hike pebble in your shoe, no one is on a hike and says, "I've got a pebble in my shoe. and says, "I've got a pebble in my shoe. and says, "I've got a pebble in my shoe. I'm going to take that out in 5 to six I'm going to take that out in 5 to six I'm going to take that out in 5 to six miles." We don't do that, you know, miles." We don't do that, you know, miles." We don't do that, you know, like, "Oh, I'm going to take that out like, "Oh, I'm going to take that out like, "Oh, I'm going to take that out right away. The tag that's bothering me right away. The tag that's bothering me right away. The tag that's bothering me on the collar, I'm going to rip that out on the collar, I'm going to rip that out on the collar, I'm going to rip that out right." Nuisances we take care of right right." Nuisances we take care of right right." Nuisances we take care of right away. So start defining these stressful, away. So start defining these stressful, away. So start defining these stressful, obnoxious, difficult, unpleasant tasks obnoxious, difficult, unpleasant tasks obnoxious, difficult, unpleasant tasks as nuisances to yourself. Ah, now I've as nuisances to yourself. Ah, now I've as nuisances to yourself. Ah, now I've got this nuisance spreadsheet. I have to got this nuisance spreadsheet. I have to got this nuisance spreadsheet. I have to write that nuisance email. You are going write that nuisance email. You are going write that nuisance email. You are going to be much more inclined to get rid of to be much more inclined to get rid of to be much more inclined to get rid of it and to do it now rather than later. it and to do it now rather than later. it and to do it now rather than later. >> I can't say how much this has already >> I can't say how much this has already >> I can't say how much this has already helped me. I had proofs for a paper, helped me. I had proofs for a paper, helped me. I had proofs for a paper, which is as academic, when you get a which is as academic, when you get a which is as academic, when you get a paper, you have to check everything and paper, you have to check everything and paper, you have to check everything and make sure all the numbers are right and make sure all the numbers are right and make sure all the numbers are right and everything's perfect. And it wound up in everything's perfect. And it wound up in everything's perfect. And it wound up in my inbox. And literally when I was going my inbox. And literally when I was going my inbox. And literally when I was going to bed at night, I'm like, "Oh god, I to bed at night, I'm like, "Oh god, I to bed at night, I'm like, "Oh god, I have those proofs. I have those proofs. have those proofs. I have those proofs. have those proofs. I have those proofs. I have to do these proofs." But then I have to do these proofs." But then I have to do these proofs." But then right after that, I read your book and I right after that, I read your book and I right after that, I read your book and I was like, "The proof's a nuisance. Got was like, "The proof's a nuisance. Got was like, "The proof's a nuisance. Got to get that out of the way." Then I just to get that out of the way." Then I just to get that out of the way." Then I just sat down to do it. You know, it probably sat down to do it. You know, it probably sat down to do it. You know, it probably did take me like 2 hours or something. did take me like 2 hours or something. did take me like 2 hours or something. You know, it was a decent chunk of time. You know, it was a decent chunk of time. You know, it was a decent chunk of time. >> It was a big nuisance, you know, >> It was a big nuisance, you know, >> It was a big nuisance, you know, >> but then it was gone, right? Then it was >> but then it was gone, right? Then it was >> but then it was gone, right? Then it was 2 hours and it was done rather than like 2 hours and it was done rather than like 2 hours and it was done rather than like over a whole week and I'm telling my over a whole week and I'm telling my over a whole week and I'm telling my husband about it at dinner and I'm husband about it at dinner and I'm husband about it at dinner and I'm seeing that email every time I look in seeing that email every time I look in seeing that email every time I look in the inbox. Oh, I got to deal with the the inbox. Oh, I got to deal with the the inbox. Oh, I got to deal with the proofs. It's such an easier thing to get proofs. It's such an easier thing to get proofs. It's such an easier thing to get it out of the way and get it off your it out of the way and get it off your it out of the way and get it off your desk. desk. desk. >> And the relief we feel when we do is >> And the relief we feel when we do is >> And the relief we feel when we do is also a nice little bon bon at the end. also a nice little bon bon at the end. also a nice little bon bon at the end. >> One of the big insights of your book is >> One of the big insights of your book is >> One of the big insights of your book is that our stress doesn't really end at that our stress doesn't really end at that our stress doesn't really end at work in part because our unconscious work in part because our unconscious work in part because our unconscious mind keeps it alive. How does our mind keeps it alive. How does our mind keeps it alive. How does our unconscious mind keep it alive? unconscious mind keep it alive? unconscious mind keep it alive? >> When you have a difficult day at work, >> When you have a difficult day at work, >> When you have a difficult day at work, you're feeling overwhelmed, you had an you're feeling overwhelmed, you had an you're feeling overwhelmed, you had an unpleasant exchange with someone, you unpleasant exchange with someone, you unpleasant exchange with someone, you felt slighted, insulted, harassed, or felt slighted, insulted, harassed, or felt slighted, insulted, harassed, or whatever it is, we don't leave those whatever it is, we don't leave those whatever it is, we don't leave those things at the office. Those are the things at the office. Those are the things at the office. Those are the kinds of insults and worries that we kinds of insults and worries that we kinds of insults and worries that we take home with us. And the way they take home with us. And the way they take home with us. And the way they manifest is that they appear as manifest is that they appear as manifest is that they appear as intrusive thoughts that make us think intrusive thoughts that make us think intrusive thoughts that make us think about the incident but in an about the incident but in an about the incident but in an unproductive way. They just make us unproductive way. They just make us unproductive way. They just make us think about that moment where the boss think about that moment where the boss think about that moment where the boss said, "No, that's not a good idea at said, "No, that's not a good idea at said, "No, that's not a good idea at all." And wave the hand dismissively at all." And wave the hand dismissively at all." And wave the hand dismissively at us and how insulted we felt and how us and how insulted we felt and how us and how insulted we felt and how dismissed we felt and how embarrassing dismissed we felt and how embarrassing dismissed we felt and how embarrassing that was afterwards. And there our mind that was afterwards. And there our mind that was afterwards. And there our mind spirals. Now we're not figuring anything spirals. Now we're not figuring anything spirals. Now we're not figuring anything out. We went through the unpleasantness out. We went through the unpleasantness out. We went through the unpleasantness of that incident and now we are playing of that incident and now we are playing of that incident and now we are playing it on repeat and putting ourselves it on repeat and putting ourselves it on repeat and putting ourselves through that same unpleasantness over through that same unpleasantness over through that same unpleasantness over and over and over again at home to no and over and over again at home to no and over and over again at home to no end. One thing to consider is this is end. One thing to consider is this is end. One thing to consider is this is unpaid all the time. If you are thinking unpaid all the time. If you are thinking unpaid all the time. If you are thinking about work when you're home, you're at about work when you're home, you're at about work when you're home, you're at work. You're not getting nothing done. work. You're not getting nothing done. work. You're not getting nothing done. You're upsetting yourself. You're You're upsetting yourself. You're You're upsetting yourself. You're stressing yourself out. You're keeping stressing yourself out. You're keeping stressing yourself out. You're keeping yourself activated and in in fight or yourself activated and in in fight or yourself activated and in in fight or flight. And it's not voluntary. you're flight. And it's not voluntary. you're flight. And it's not voluntary. you're trying to watch a show and it intrudes trying to watch a show and it intrudes trying to watch a show and it intrudes into your mind again and you're sitting into your mind again and you're sitting into your mind again and you're sitting at dinner with your partner and trying at dinner with your partner and trying at dinner with your partner and trying to have a conversation and suddenly to have a conversation and suddenly to have a conversation and suddenly they're like hey did you hear what I they're like hey did you hear what I they're like hey did you hear what I said and you're like no cuz you're back said and you're like no cuz you're back said and you're like no cuz you're back at work replaying that same argument. at work replaying that same argument. at work replaying that same argument. Another thing people do which I always Another thing people do which I always Another thing people do which I always find interesting is cuz I do it too is find interesting is cuz I do it too is find interesting is cuz I do it too is they have the fantasy argument. I wish I they have the fantasy argument. I wish I they have the fantasy argument. I wish I would have said this and and again would have said this and and again would have said this and and again there's maybe some satisfaction in there's maybe some satisfaction in there's maybe some satisfaction in having the ha mic drop moment in your having the ha mic drop moment in your having the ha mic drop moment in your head but you had to relive the insult to head but you had to relive the insult to head but you had to relive the insult to have it. you're still getting all upset have it. you're still getting all upset have it. you're still getting all upset about it and it's not going to happen. about it and it's not going to happen. about it and it's not going to happen. That conversation point, it's in the That conversation point, it's in the That conversation point, it's in the past now. So, we have to catch when past now. So, we have to catch when past now. So, we have to catch when we're ruminating unproductively because we're ruminating unproductively because we're ruminating unproductively because it's really damaging us. It'll impair it's really damaging us. It'll impair it's really damaging us. It'll impair our sleep. It'll stress us out. It'll our sleep. It'll stress us out. It'll our sleep. It'll stress us out. It'll impair our mood over time. It can become impair our mood over time. It can become impair our mood over time. It can become habitual and then it predisposes us to habitual and then it predisposes us to habitual and then it predisposes us to cardiovascular disease, to depression. cardiovascular disease, to depression. cardiovascular disease, to depression. There's just no utility to it. And so, There's just no utility to it. And so, There's just no utility to it. And so, we have to catch it and then we have to we have to catch it and then we have to we have to catch it and then we have to convert it into a much more adaptive convert it into a much more adaptive convert it into a much more adaptive form of self-reflection. And so how do form of self-reflection. And so how do form of self-reflection. And so how do we banish the rumination? Your book has we banish the rumination? Your book has we banish the rumination? Your book has some of these lovely strategies. You some of these lovely strategies. You some of these lovely strategies. You talked about kind of coming up with ways talked about kind of coming up with ways talked about kind of coming up with ways to develop strong intolerance for to develop strong intolerance for to develop strong intolerance for rumination. Sounds great, but what do rumination. Sounds great, but what do rumination. Sounds great, but what do you mean there? you mean there? you mean there? >> Once you're aware of how useless and >> Once you're aware of how useless and >> Once you're aware of how useless and harmful rumination is and how you're harmful rumination is and how you're harmful rumination is and how you're doing all this time and actually harming doing all this time and actually harming doing all this time and actually harming yourself in the process, you should yourself in the process, you should yourself in the process, you should develop a real antipathy toward it. You develop a real antipathy toward it. You develop a real antipathy toward it. You should see it as your unconscious mind should see it as your unconscious mind should see it as your unconscious mind trying to infect you in some way, trying trying to infect you in some way, trying trying to infect you in some way, trying to bring in unpleasantness into your to bring in unpleasantness into your to bring in unpleasantness into your headsp space. And so the metaphor I use headsp space. And so the metaphor I use headsp space. And so the metaphor I use in the book, and you can use any, is in the book, and you can use any, is in the book, and you can use any, is like you have to think of it like a like you have to think of it like a like you have to think of it like a skunk that just sat down with you on the skunk that just sat down with you on the skunk that just sat down with you on the sofa. You'd like, "Oh, no, no, no, no. I sofa. You'd like, "Oh, no, no, no, no. I sofa. You'd like, "Oh, no, no, no, no. I don't want this in my head." And I train don't want this in my head." And I train don't want this in my head." And I train myself really well to do it. I still myself really well to do it. I still myself really well to do it. I still ruminate when I'm in stressful periods ruminate when I'm in stressful periods ruminate when I'm in stressful periods because that is a natural thing. I just because that is a natural thing. I just because that is a natural thing. I just catch it really, really quickly. By the catch it really, really quickly. By the catch it really, really quickly. By the second round of the hamster wheel, I'm second round of the hamster wheel, I'm second round of the hamster wheel, I'm like, "Wait a minute. Now I'm like, "Wait a minute. Now I'm like, "Wait a minute. Now I'm ruminating. I'm not having that." You ruminating. I'm not having that." You ruminating. I'm not having that." You know, somebody was really annoying and know, somebody was really annoying and know, somebody was really annoying and they disappointed me in some kind of they disappointed me in some kind of they disappointed me in some kind of way. And I'm like, "How could they do way. And I'm like, "How could they do way. And I'm like, "How could they do that? I don't understand." The minute I that? I don't understand." The minute I that? I don't understand." The minute I catch you like, "No, no, no. You're not catch you like, "No, no, no. You're not catch you like, "No, no, no. You're not going to give that person more stage going to give that person more stage going to give that person more stage time in your head. This is not happening time in your head. This is not happening time in your head. This is not happening in my head right now. I'm not letting in my head right now. I'm not letting in my head right now. I'm not letting it." it." it." >> And one of the great things about >> And one of the great things about >> And one of the great things about strategy is because rumination is strategy is because rumination is strategy is because rumination is building off all these unconscious building off all these unconscious building off all these unconscious processes, just the act of noticing it processes, just the act of noticing it processes, just the act of noticing it can be really powerful because then can be really powerful because then can be really powerful because then you're like, "Wait, I'm doing that thing you're like, "Wait, I'm doing that thing you're like, "Wait, I'm doing that thing again. Skunk's on the couch. I got to again. Skunk's on the couch. I got to again. Skunk's on the couch. I got to get rid of this. get rid of this. get rid of this. >> Right? It frees up so much bandwidth, so >> Right? It frees up so much bandwidth, so >> Right? It frees up so much bandwidth, so much mental space. It allows you to be much mental space. It allows you to be much mental space. It allows you to be more thoughtful and deliberate and more thoughtful and deliberate and more thoughtful and deliberate and intentional and present in actually what intentional and present in actually what intentional and present in actually what I'd rather be doing after work. Now I I'd rather be doing after work. Now I I'd rather be doing after work. Now I can enjoy the movie. Now I can enjoy can enjoy the movie. Now I can enjoy can enjoy the movie. Now I can enjoy date night with my partner because I'm date night with my partner because I'm date night with my partner because I'm actually more present. actually more present. actually more present. >> Another thing we can do when we get back >> Another thing we can do when we get back >> Another thing we can do when we get back to our conscious mind for thinking about to our conscious mind for thinking about to our conscious mind for thinking about how to deal with rumination is that we how to deal with rumination is that we how to deal with rumination is that we can start dealing with potential can start dealing with potential can start dealing with potential stressful problems proactively. Right? stressful problems proactively. Right? stressful problems proactively. Right? we can look ahead to prevent the we can look ahead to prevent the we can look ahead to prevent the rumination from coming in. You've talked rumination from coming in. You've talked rumination from coming in. You've talked about the strategy of finding your about the strategy of finding your about the strategy of finding your stress minds. What does that mean? And stress minds. What does that mean? And stress minds. What does that mean? And how can we use that strategy better? how can we use that strategy better? how can we use that strategy better? >> I always ask people when I'm giving >> I always ask people when I'm giving >> I always ask people when I'm giving talks, who thinks their job is stressful talks, who thinks their job is stressful talks, who thinks their job is stressful like 9 out of 10. And people are like, like 9 out of 10. And people are like, like 9 out of 10. And people are like, "Oh, it's 10 out of 10." And there's "Oh, it's 10 out of 10." And there's "Oh, it's 10 out of 10." And there's always someone who shouts 11. You know, always someone who shouts 11. You know, always someone who shouts 11. You know, there it's always that. And I'm like, there it's always that. And I'm like, there it's always that. And I'm like, okay, but that's not the case. Your job okay, but that's not the case. Your job okay, but that's not the case. Your job is not at an 11. Break it down into what is not at an 11. Break it down into what is not at an 11. Break it down into what the specific components are and rank the specific components are and rank the specific components are and rank those. Now maybe some of them are tens. those. Now maybe some of them are tens. those. Now maybe some of them are tens. Maybe that meeting with the boss and the Maybe that meeting with the boss and the Maybe that meeting with the boss and the client that hates you is so unpleasant. client that hates you is so unpleasant. client that hates you is so unpleasant. That's a 10. But you have it once a That's a 10. But you have it once a That's a 10. But you have it once a month. Maybe this task or this meeting month. Maybe this task or this meeting month. Maybe this task or this meeting which is always people feuding and which is always people feuding and which is always people feuding and fighting and not getting along is a fighting and not getting along is a fighting and not getting along is a eight or a nine and you have it 3 hours eight or a nine and you have it 3 hours eight or a nine and you have it 3 hours a week. But once you start going through a week. But once you start going through a week. But once you start going through that, you'll find that there are some that, you'll find that there are some that, you'll find that there are some eights, there are some nines, maybe some eights, there are some nines, maybe some eights, there are some nines, maybe some tens, but there are a lot of threes and tens, but there are a lot of threes and tens, but there are a lot of threes and fours and fives and sixes because there fours and fives and sixes because there fours and fives and sixes because there are the lunches and there are the boring are the lunches and there are the boring are the lunches and there are the boring meetings. There's plenty. that once you meetings. There's plenty. that once you meetings. There's plenty. that once you know what the tasks are, you can start know what the tasks are, you can start know what the tasks are, you can start looking at the ones that stress you out looking at the ones that stress you out looking at the ones that stress you out most and those are your stress minds. most and those are your stress minds. most and those are your stress minds. Those are the ones that kind of explode Those are the ones that kind of explode Those are the ones that kind of explode every week and you know and then you can every week and you know and then you can every week and you know and then you can start to strategize about how to deal start to strategize about how to deal start to strategize about how to deal with them. with them. with them. >> I asked Ben Walter what he thought of >> I asked Ben Walter what he thought of >> I asked Ben Walter what he thought of guys strategy for categorizing your guys strategy for categorizing your guys strategy for categorizing your daily stress minds. Ben said we can go daily stress minds. Ben said we can go daily stress minds. Ben said we can go even further by offloading our stress even further by offloading our stress even further by offloading our stress minds all together. minds all together. minds all together. >> Find ways to not have to do the things >> Find ways to not have to do the things >> Find ways to not have to do the things that stress you out the most. It's okay. that stress you out the most. It's okay. that stress you out the most. It's okay. Let's be honest, we are less stressed Let's be honest, we are less stressed Let's be honest, we are less stressed when we do things we're good at. Now, we when we do things we're good at. Now, we when we do things we're good at. Now, we don't want to only do things we're great don't want to only do things we're great don't want to only do things we're great at. Otherwise, we're not nervided. We're at. Otherwise, we're not nervided. We're at. Otherwise, we're not nervided. We're not challenged. We're not pressed in the not challenged. We're not pressed in the not challenged. We're not pressed in the same way that we talked about. But the same way that we talked about. But the same way that we talked about. But the things that we know we're bad at and things that we know we're bad at and things that we know we're bad at and that we just don't have a gift for, we that we just don't have a gift for, we that we just don't have a gift for, we might never be good at. Find a way to might never be good at. Find a way to might never be good at. Find a way to not have to do them. That's not always not have to do them. That's not always not have to do them. That's not always possible, but it's possible a lot more possible, but it's possible a lot more possible, but it's possible a lot more than we think. Pay an outside vendor to than we think. Pay an outside vendor to than we think. Pay an outside vendor to do it. Take the whole process out of do it. Take the whole process out of do it. Take the whole process out of your business process if you can. Find your business process if you can. Find your business process if you can. Find the things that cause you the most the things that cause you the most the things that cause you the most stress and find a way to either engineer stress and find a way to either engineer stress and find a way to either engineer them out of your business process or to them out of your business process or to them out of your business process or to offload them to partners, employees, or offload them to partners, employees, or offload them to partners, employees, or some other party. some other party. some other party. >> But Ben also has a strategy for the >> But Ben also has a strategy for the >> But Ben also has a strategy for the stress minds you can't realistically stress minds you can't realistically stress minds you can't realistically unload. It's a practice that we talk unload. It's a practice that we talk unload. It's a practice that we talk about a lot on the happiness lab. The about a lot on the happiness lab. The about a lot on the happiness lab. The act of radical acceptance. Simply accept act of radical acceptance. Simply accept act of radical acceptance. Simply accept the fact that stressful situations are a the fact that stressful situations are a the fact that stressful situations are a normative part of most jobs, especially normative part of most jobs, especially normative part of most jobs, especially if you're a small business owner like if you're a small business owner like if you're a small business owner like the clients Ben supports. Sometimes the clients Ben supports. Sometimes the clients Ben supports. Sometimes there's a time to be stressed and a time there's a time to be stressed and a time there's a time to be stressed and a time to not be stressed. You know, I say to to not be stressed. You know, I say to to not be stressed. You know, I say to people who want to start their own people who want to start their own people who want to start their own businesses, just know the first two businesses, just know the first two businesses, just know the first two years, you're going to be stressed the years, you're going to be stressed the years, you're going to be stressed the whole time. Yes, you can help manage it, whole time. Yes, you can help manage it, whole time. Yes, you can help manage it, but the early phase of starting a but the early phase of starting a but the early phase of starting a business is highly, highly stressful, business is highly, highly stressful, business is highly, highly stressful, even for the most resilient people. But even for the most resilient people. But even for the most resilient people. But there will come a time at which you can there will come a time at which you can there will come a time at which you can take some of that stress off. You know, take some of that stress off. You know, take some of that stress off. You know, a lot of if you're in retail, guess a lot of if you're in retail, guess a lot of if you're in retail, guess what? Q4 is gonna suck. It's just the what? Q4 is gonna suck. It's just the what? Q4 is gonna suck. It's just the way it is. My wife works in online way it is. My wife works in online way it is. My wife works in online retail. She always tells me like, "Ben, retail. She always tells me like, "Ben, retail. She always tells me like, "Ben, Black Friday's coming." I know we're not Black Friday's coming." I know we're not Black Friday's coming." I know we're not going away for Thanksgiving. We just going away for Thanksgiving. We just going away for Thanksgiving. We just don't. So, I think having in your mind don't. So, I think having in your mind don't. So, I think having in your mind that there are sometimes that it's okay that there are sometimes that it's okay that there are sometimes that it's okay to be more stressed and as long as you to be more stressed and as long as you to be more stressed and as long as you protect other times that are less, that protect other times that are less, that protect other times that are less, that can give you more fortitude to cope. can give you more fortitude to cope. can give you more fortitude to cope. >> It also just normalizes what you're >> It also just normalizes what you're >> It also just normalizes what you're going through. I think it forces you to going through. I think it forces you to going through. I think it forces you to give yourself a little grace and give yourself a little grace and give yourself a little grace and self-compassion because you're like, self-compassion because you're like, self-compassion because you're like, "This is normal. Of course, I'm feeling "This is normal. Of course, I'm feeling "This is normal. Of course, I'm feeling stressed. I'm in my first year of the stressed. I'm in my first year of the stressed. I'm in my first year of the business." Or, "Of course I'm feeling business." Or, "Of course I'm feeling business." Or, "Of course I'm feeling stressed. It's Q4." [gasps] stressed. It's Q4." [gasps] stressed. It's Q4." [gasps] Common human experience. And there's so Common human experience. And there's so Common human experience. And there's so many studies that show that just having many studies that show that just having many studies that show that just having that moment of like, yeah, normal common that moment of like, yeah, normal common that moment of like, yeah, normal common human experience, it reduces the stress human experience, it reduces the stress human experience, it reduces the stress because it stops you from beating because it stops you from beating because it stops you from beating yourself up about the stress when you're yourself up about the stress when you're yourself up about the stress when you're in that tough time, in that tough time, in that tough time, >> right? It's like saying if you've had a >> right? It's like saying if you've had a >> right? It's like saying if you've had a loss in your life and you're sad. Well, loss in your life and you're sad. Well, loss in your life and you're sad. Well, that's normal. You're feeling grief. that's normal. You're feeling grief. that's normal. You're feeling grief. That's normal. And then there's times That's normal. And then there's times That's normal. And then there's times when you are stressed and that's okay, when you are stressed and that's okay, when you are stressed and that's okay, too. And I think we don't give ourselves too. And I think we don't give ourselves too. And I think we don't give ourselves permission. It's I'm feeling stressed permission. It's I'm feeling stressed permission. It's I'm feeling stressed and I shouldn't. Well, no. Maybe this is and I shouldn't. Well, no. Maybe this is and I shouldn't. Well, no. Maybe this is a time you probably are going to feel a time you probably are going to feel a time you probably are going to feel stressed. So far, we've heard Guy and stressed. So far, we've heard Guy and stressed. So far, we've heard Guy and Ben's strategies for managing stress at Ben's strategies for managing stress at Ben's strategies for managing stress at work. But what about managing stress work. But what about managing stress work. But what about managing stress when you get out of work? When we get when you get out of work? When we get when you get out of work? When we get back from the break, we'll discuss what back from the break, we'll discuss what back from the break, we'll discuss what the evidence says about how to truly the evidence says about how to truly the evidence says about how to truly relax and [music] recharge. We'll learn relax and [music] recharge. We'll learn relax and [music] recharge. We'll learn why so many of us tend to decompress in why so many of us tend to decompress in why so many of us tend to decompress in the wrong ways and what we can do to the wrong ways and what we can do to the wrong ways and what we can do to unstress our leisure time. The Happiness unstress our leisure time. The Happiness unstress our leisure time. The Happiness Lab will be right back. [music] >> These days, we talk a lot about stress >> These days, we talk a lot about stress on the job, but psychologist Guy Winch on the job, but psychologist Guy Winch on the job, but psychologist Guy Winch likes to point out that handling work likes to point out that handling work likes to point out that handling work stress isn't just about what you do stress isn't just about what you do stress isn't just about what you do during your work hours. It's also about during your work hours. It's also about during your work hours. It's also about [music] how you spend your time off the [music] how you spend your time off the [music] how you spend your time off the clock. What's interesting for me is that clock. What's interesting for me is that clock. What's interesting for me is that the nature of work has changed so the nature of work has changed so the nature of work has changed so dramatically since the industrial dramatically since the industrial dramatically since the industrial revolution and our approaches to revolution and our approaches to revolution and our approaches to recovery have not in other words in the recovery have not in other words in the recovery have not in other words in the industrial revolution you spend 15 hours industrial revolution you spend 15 hours industrial revolution you spend 15 hours a day you know stirring fabrics in a vat a day you know stirring fabrics in a vat a day you know stirring fabrics in a vat of dye and then you get home and you of dye and then you get home and you of dye and then you get home and you need to rest but we sit usually 8 n need to rest but we sit usually 8 n need to rest but we sit usually 8 n hours a day and look at screens and our hours a day and look at screens and our hours a day and look at screens and our way to recover from that is to get home way to recover from that is to get home way to recover from that is to get home and sit down and look at screens and our and sit down and look at screens and our and sit down and look at screens and our brain is like So wait, what's happening? brain is like So wait, what's happening? brain is like So wait, what's happening? How is this different? Really, doesn't How is this different? Really, doesn't How is this different? Really, doesn't matter that the content is different. matter that the content is different. matter that the content is different. We're doing the same thing. And the We're doing the same thing. And the We're doing the same thing. And the research shows that to recover research shows that to recover research shows that to recover effectively from the workday, we need to effectively from the workday, we need to effectively from the workday, we need to destress. And so resting and relaxing destress. And so resting and relaxing destress. And so resting and relaxing has its place. If you want to veg out has its place. If you want to veg out has its place. If you want to veg out for a few hours, fine. That won't drain for a few hours, fine. That won't drain for a few hours, fine. That won't drain your batteries further. It won't your batteries further. It won't your batteries further. It won't recharge them though. To recharge, to recharge them though. To recharge, to recharge them though. To recharge, to revitalize is a really important revitalize is a really important revitalize is a really important ingredient of effective recovery. So, it ingredient of effective recovery. So, it ingredient of effective recovery. So, it can't just be about the veg out. It can't just be about the veg out. It can't just be about the veg out. It can't just be about the screen binge or can't just be about the screen binge or can't just be about the screen binge or about the social media. You know, so about the social media. You know, so about the social media. You know, so many people are like, "Oh, I spent 3 many people are like, "Oh, I spent 3 many people are like, "Oh, I spent 3 hours looking through reals." And I'm hours looking through reals." And I'm hours looking through reals." And I'm like, "3 hours through reals." They're like, "3 hours through reals." They're like, "3 hours through reals." They're short. So, how many different your short. So, how many different your short. So, how many different your attention is like your brain is like, attention is like your brain is like, attention is like your brain is like, "That was not calming to me at all." You "That was not calming to me at all." You "That was not calming to me at all." You know, I did not feel calm by that. So, know, I did not feel calm by that. So, know, I did not feel calm by that. So, we have to add in the recharging stuff. we have to add in the recharging stuff. we have to add in the recharging stuff. And the recharging stuff, unfortunately, And the recharging stuff, unfortunately, And the recharging stuff, unfortunately, doesn't happen on the couch. It actually doesn't happen on the couch. It actually doesn't happen on the couch. It actually means we have to get up and do means we have to get up and do means we have to get up and do something. The problem is our mind something. The problem is our mind something. The problem is our mind again, the automatic unconscious mind again, the automatic unconscious mind again, the automatic unconscious mind will say to you like, "No, no, no. will say to you like, "No, no, no. will say to you like, "No, no, no. You're totally wiped out. You can't go You're totally wiped out. You can't go You're totally wiped out. You can't go to the gym now. That's crazy talk. You to the gym now. That's crazy talk. You to the gym now. That's crazy talk. You can't get up and go meet your friend. can't get up and go meet your friend. can't get up and go meet your friend. You're drained." Our mind doesn't You're drained." Our mind doesn't You're drained." Our mind doesn't distinguish well between mental distinguish well between mental distinguish well between mental exhaustion and physical exhaustion. It exhaustion and physical exhaustion. It exhaustion and physical exhaustion. It confuses the two. We're not physically confuses the two. We're not physically confuses the two. We're not physically tired. We're mentally drained. And we tired. We're mentally drained. And we tired. We're mentally drained. And we need to recharge mentally. And everyone need to recharge mentally. And everyone need to recharge mentally. And everyone knows this. If you're athletic and you knows this. If you're athletic and you knows this. If you're athletic and you force yourself to get off the couch and force yourself to get off the couch and force yourself to get off the couch and go for that run, if you're social and go for that run, if you're social and go for that run, if you're social and you force yourself to go and socialize, you force yourself to go and socialize, you force yourself to go and socialize, if you're creative and you force if you're creative and you force if you're creative and you force yourself to go and do the painting or yourself to go and do the painting or yourself to go and do the painting or the writing or whatever it is, whether the writing or whatever it is, whether the writing or whatever it is, whether it's 15 minutes, half an hour, or an it's 15 minutes, half an hour, or an it's 15 minutes, half an hour, or an hour later, you will come back feeling hour later, you will come back feeling hour later, you will come back feeling way more energized than before you left. way more energized than before you left. way more energized than before you left. Because of that magical ROI of that Because of that magical ROI of that Because of that magical ROI of that second wind, you'll feel revitalized. second wind, you'll feel revitalized. second wind, you'll feel revitalized. Except that when you're on the couch, Except that when you're on the couch, Except that when you're on the couch, your mind is telling you, "No, no, you your mind is telling you, "No, no, you your mind is telling you, "No, no, you just you don't have it within you." But just you don't have it within you." But just you don't have it within you." But you do. It's one of those moments where you do. It's one of those moments where you do. It's one of those moments where you have to like be the adult, you know, you have to like be the adult, you know, you have to like be the adult, you know, in the brain and kind of take over and in the brain and kind of take over and in the brain and kind of take over and disengage from the autopilot and do the disengage from the autopilot and do the disengage from the autopilot and do the thing that's good for you, even though thing that's good for you, even though thing that's good for you, even though it feels like I can't. it feels like I can't. it feels like I can't. >> But even when you've intentionally >> But even when you've intentionally >> But even when you've intentionally chosen a more restorative activity, it chosen a more restorative activity, it chosen a more restorative activity, it can still be hard to switch off. I know can still be hard to switch off. I know can still be hard to switch off. I know that when I'm feeling really stressed at that when I'm feeling really stressed at that when I'm feeling really stressed at work, it can feel like I'm battling my work, it can feel like I'm battling my work, it can feel like I'm battling my brain just to turn work mode off so that brain just to turn work mode off so that brain just to turn work mode off so that I can actually enjoy my free time. So, I can actually enjoy my free time. So, I can actually enjoy my free time. So, how do we do this better? Guy suggests a how do we do this better? Guy suggests a how do we do this better? Guy suggests a strategy he learned as a kid from strategy he learned as a kid from strategy he learned as a kid from watching Mr. Rogers. If you're a fan of watching Mr. Rogers. If you're a fan of watching Mr. Rogers. If you're a fan of that show, you probably remember how Mr. that show, you probably remember how Mr. that show, you probably remember how Mr. Rogers would famously swap his suit Rogers would famously swap his suit Rogers would famously swap his suit jacket and dress shoes for the red jacket and dress shoes for the red jacket and dress shoes for the red cardigan and sneakers he wore at home cardigan and sneakers he wore at home cardigan and sneakers he wore at home everyday when he entered the house. Guy everyday when he entered the house. Guy everyday when he entered the house. Guy says that daily rituals like these can says that daily rituals like these can says that daily rituals like these can be more beneficial than we expect. We be more beneficial than we expect. We be more beneficial than we expect. We have to really help train our brain to have to really help train our brain to have to really help train our brain to shift gears from the workday which might shift gears from the workday which might shift gears from the workday which might be intense and conflictual and pressured be intense and conflictual and pressured be intense and conflictual and pressured and stressful to whatever the home and stressful to whatever the home and stressful to whatever the home [clears throat] life is, whatever you're [clears throat] life is, whatever you're [clears throat] life is, whatever you're doing when you get home, whether it's a doing when you get home, whether it's a doing when you get home, whether it's a dinner with your family, helping your dinner with your family, helping your dinner with your family, helping your kids with homework, whatever the thing kids with homework, whatever the thing kids with homework, whatever the thing is, it's a very different mindset. You is, it's a very different mindset. You is, it's a very different mindset. You want to help switch gears. And for the want to help switch gears. And for the want to help switch gears. And for the brain, it's really useful to have a brain, it's really useful to have a brain, it's really useful to have a ritual that's repetitive because, you ritual that's repetitive because, you ritual that's repetitive because, you know, our brain learns rituals. And so know, our brain learns rituals. And so know, our brain learns rituals. And so when you start something, it starts to when you start something, it starts to when you start something, it starts to anticipate where this is going and then anticipate where this is going and then anticipate where this is going and then it'll cooperate better in actually it'll cooperate better in actually it'll cooperate better in actually shifting the mindset. And I say ritual shifting the mindset. And I say ritual shifting the mindset. And I say ritual because people say I have a routine, but because people say I have a routine, but because people say I have a routine, but a ritual is something that we imbue with a ritual is something that we imbue with a ritual is something that we imbue with deeper meaning. So it's actually a deeper meaning. So it's actually a deeper meaning. So it's actually a little bit more effective and it should little bit more effective and it should little bit more effective and it should employ as many of the senses as employ as many of the senses as employ as many of the senses as possible. Music is very evocative for possible. Music is very evocative for possible. Music is very evocative for us. So have the playlist that you play us. So have the playlist that you play us. So have the playlist that you play at the end of the day. Actions are at the end of the day. Actions are at the end of the day. Actions are useful. I always close the door to my useful. I always close the door to my useful. I always close the door to my home office. I will walk out. I will home office. I will walk out. I will home office. I will walk out. I will close the door and I will say to myself, close the door and I will say to myself, close the door and I will say to myself, "Your evening begins." Like I will "Your evening begins." Like I will "Your evening begins." Like I will message myself, "This is the end of the message myself, "This is the end of the message myself, "This is the end of the workday." And then I will listen to a workday." And then I will listen to a workday." And then I will listen to a certain kind of music. I will change certain kind of music. I will change certain kind of music. I will change clothes. I I tend to wear casual clothes. I I tend to wear casual clothes. I I tend to wear casual clothes, but I have the casual clothes I clothes, but I have the casual clothes I clothes, but I have the casual clothes I wear when I'm working. And I have the wear when I'm working. And I have the wear when I'm working. And I have the casual and people say to me, "I'm jeans casual and people say to me, "I'm jeans casual and people say to me, "I'm jeans and t-shirts." I'm like, "Terrific. Have and t-shirts." I'm like, "Terrific. Have and t-shirts." I'm like, "Terrific. Have the t-shirts you wear for work and the t-shirts you wear for work and the t-shirts you wear for work and associate with work and have the associate with work and have the associate with work and have the t-shirts and jeans that your brain t-shirts and jeans that your brain t-shirts and jeans that your brain associates with not work because it's associates with not work because it's associates with not work because it's very symbolic. Clothes are very very symbolic. Clothes are very very symbolic. Clothes are very embodied. makes us feel a certain thing. embodied. makes us feel a certain thing. embodied. makes us feel a certain thing. So if you associate some with your So if you associate some with your So if you associate some with your leisure time, you're much more inclined leisure time, you're much more inclined leisure time, you're much more inclined to then feel relaxed. You can use to then feel relaxed. You can use to then feel relaxed. You can use scents, certain candles, you can shift scents, certain candles, you can shift scents, certain candles, you can shift the lighting. You can create whatever the lighting. You can create whatever the lighting. You can create whatever the ritual is that works for you. But the ritual is that works for you. But the ritual is that works for you. But repeat it every day. You can do it on repeat it every day. You can do it on repeat it every day. You can do it on during your commute or, you know, as you during your commute or, you know, as you during your commute or, you know, as you get home, you can ask for like when I get home, you can ask for like when I get home, you can ask for like when I get home, I'll need 10 minutes to kind get home, I'll need 10 minutes to kind get home, I'll need 10 minutes to kind of get my mind straight before I dive of get my mind straight before I dive of get my mind straight before I dive into the duties of the household or the into the duties of the household or the into the duties of the household or the parenting. You can ask for that and then parenting. You can ask for that and then parenting. You can ask for that and then use that because then you'll be much use that because then you'll be much use that because then you'll be much more present. You're also hacking the more present. You're also hacking the more present. You're also hacking the same thing that causes all the problems, same thing that causes all the problems, same thing that causes all the problems, which is your unconscious mind. Right? which is your unconscious mind. Right? which is your unconscious mind. Right? If your mind is unconsciously noticing If your mind is unconsciously noticing If your mind is unconsciously noticing the clothes you wear that you're still the clothes you wear that you're still the clothes you wear that you're still in the room where you're working, now in the room where you're working, now in the room where you're working, now all of a sudden it's still in work mode. all of a sudden it's still in work mode. all of a sudden it's still in work mode. But when you use the ritual to hack But when you use the ritual to hack But when you use the ritual to hack like, "Oh, now new smell, new clothes." like, "Oh, now new smell, new clothes." like, "Oh, now new smell, new clothes." Your unconscious mind, for better or for Your unconscious mind, for better or for Your unconscious mind, for better or for worse, is learning from it and changing worse, is learning from it and changing worse, is learning from it and changing how you're experiencing the world how you're experiencing the world how you're experiencing the world emotionally. It's so powerful. emotionally. It's so powerful. emotionally. It's so powerful. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Another way we can hack the unconscious >> Another way we can hack the unconscious >> Another way we can hack the unconscious mind though is that we can tell it stuff mind though is that we can tell it stuff mind though is that we can tell it stuff that we want it to learn from. You've that we want it to learn from. You've that we want it to learn from. You've talked about the power of announcing talked about the power of announcing talked about the power of announcing your schedule in the evenings if you do your schedule in the evenings if you do your schedule in the evenings if you do have to work on some small things. How have to work on some small things. How have to work on some small things. How does that work? does that work? does that work? >> I advocate for two things. Number one, I >> I advocate for two things. Number one, I >> I advocate for two things. Number one, I said when I leave my office, I say now said when I leave my office, I say now said when I leave my office, I say now the evening begins. But I will also put the evening begins. But I will also put the evening begins. But I will also put in my calendar. A lot of people the in my calendar. A lot of people the in my calendar. A lot of people the evenings are white in their calendar evenings are white in their calendar evenings are white in their calendar unless they have something that they're unless they have something that they're unless they have something that they're doing. Okay, I have dinner here with doing. Okay, I have dinner here with doing. Okay, I have dinner here with these friends or this thing that I'm these friends or this thing that I'm these friends or this thing that I'm going to. But otherwise, it's white. And going to. But otherwise, it's white. And going to. But otherwise, it's white. And white is not telling your brain what to white is not telling your brain what to white is not telling your brain what to do. So I would put there rest and do. So I would put there rest and do. So I would put there rest and recharge. recover from the workday. recharge. recover from the workday. recharge. recover from the workday. Spend quality time with your family. Put Spend quality time with your family. Put Spend quality time with your family. Put something there so it reminds you something there so it reminds you something there so it reminds you actually there is a task right now. It's actually there is a task right now. It's actually there is a task right now. It's not a goal oriented one. It's an not a goal oriented one. It's an not a goal oriented one. It's an experiential one. But there is one. But experiential one. But there is one. But experiential one. But there is one. But the other thing you can do is like look the other thing you can do is like look the other thing you can do is like look work emails. Many many many people they work emails. Many many many people they work emails. Many many many people they they have to respond to. And what that they have to respond to. And what that they have to respond to. And what that does is then it can just corrupt your does is then it can just corrupt your does is then it can just corrupt your entire evening because you check your entire evening because you check your entire evening because you check your phone every 5 minutes and then you're phone every 5 minutes and then you're phone every 5 minutes and then you're not detached from work at all. You're not detached from work at all. You're not detached from work at all. You're fused with work. You're not able to fused with work. You're not able to fused with work. You're not able to engage and to be present in whatever it engage and to be present in whatever it engage and to be present in whatever it is you are doing. So that framing, the is you are doing. So that framing, the is you are doing. So that framing, the feeling of autonomy that you're in feeling of autonomy that you're in feeling of autonomy that you're in charge of your evening is very charge of your evening is very charge of your evening is very important. And the way you do that is important. And the way you do that is important. And the way you do that is you frame whatever the task is as the you frame whatever the task is as the you frame whatever the task is as the main event. The main event being relax main event. The main event being relax main event. The main event being relax and recharge or quality time with my and recharge or quality time with my and recharge or quality time with my family or go for a run then have dinner family or go for a run then have dinner family or go for a run then have dinner then whatever the thing is. That's the then whatever the thing is. That's the then whatever the thing is. That's the main event. And then when you have to main event. And then when you have to main event. And then when you have to check work stuff, do it in one sitting check work stuff, do it in one sitting check work stuff, do it in one sitting if possible. Frame that as that's the if possible. Frame that as that's the if possible. Frame that as that's the intermission from the main event of the intermission from the main event of the intermission from the main event of the show. that is my evening. And then show. that is my evening. And then show. that is my evening. And then you're just taking a break from your you're just taking a break from your you're just taking a break from your evening for the intermission about work. evening for the intermission about work. evening for the intermission about work. And then after the intermission, the And then after the intermission, the And then after the intermission, the show resumes. You're resuming whatever show resumes. You're resuming whatever show resumes. You're resuming whatever you're doing. That brain hack allows you're doing. That brain hack allows you're doing. That brain hack allows your unconscious mind to still feel like your unconscious mind to still feel like your unconscious mind to still feel like we're at home as opposed to continually we're at home as opposed to continually we're at home as opposed to continually thinking about, oh, I have to deal with thinking about, oh, I have to deal with thinking about, oh, I have to deal with this thing at work. this thing at work. this thing at work. >> So, these are all strategies we can use >> So, these are all strategies we can use >> So, these are all strategies we can use for the end of the workday. But you've for the end of the workday. But you've for the end of the workday. But you've also been a big advocate of squeezing also been a big advocate of squeezing also been a big advocate of squeezing leisure into micro breaks during the leisure into micro breaks during the leisure into micro breaks during the workday. How can we do this a little bit workday. How can we do this a little bit workday. How can we do this a little bit better? better? better? So I said earlier that one of the things So I said earlier that one of the things So I said earlier that one of the things we do when we feel overwhelmed at work, we do when we feel overwhelmed at work, we do when we feel overwhelmed at work, pressured, stressed, etc. is we just put pressured, stressed, etc. is we just put pressured, stressed, etc. is we just put our head down and go from task to task our head down and go from task to task our head down and go from task to task on complete autopilot. We're actually on complete autopilot. We're actually on complete autopilot. We're actually not strategizing not strategizing not strategizing our day from a psychological health our day from a psychological health our day from a psychological health point of view. We are not actually point of view. We are not actually point of view. We are not actually giving thought and looking like, oh my giving thought and looking like, oh my giving thought and looking like, oh my goodness, I have three difficult goodness, I have three difficult goodness, I have three difficult meetings in a row. What's the best way meetings in a row. What's the best way meetings in a row. What's the best way for me to deal with that? Oh, you know for me to deal with that? Oh, you know for me to deal with that? Oh, you know what? There's 10 minutes here between what? There's 10 minutes here between what? There's 10 minutes here between this one and this one. That would be a this one and this one. That would be a this one and this one. That would be a good time for me to do some sit-ups or good time for me to do some sit-ups or good time for me to do some sit-ups or push-ups or go up and down some stairs push-ups or go up and down some stairs push-ups or go up and down some stairs just to get my blood flow going. I do just to get my blood flow going. I do just to get my blood flow going. I do have 15 minutes here. Let me prepare have 15 minutes here. Let me prepare have 15 minutes here. Let me prepare food to bring and go sit in the park, food to bring and go sit in the park, food to bring and go sit in the park, have some nature around me. That will be have some nature around me. That will be have some nature around me. That will be really, really useful. After this really, really useful. After this really, really useful. After this meeting, let me see if I can push back meeting, let me see if I can push back meeting, let me see if I can push back the next thing by 10 minutes cuz then I the next thing by 10 minutes cuz then I the next thing by 10 minutes cuz then I want to be able to call my mother, my want to be able to call my mother, my want to be able to call my mother, my best friend, whatever, and just see a best friend, whatever, and just see a best friend, whatever, and just see a friendly, loving face and just get some friendly, loving face and just get some friendly, loving face and just get some good vibes. In other words, be good vibes. In other words, be good vibes. In other words, be intentional and deliberate about what intentional and deliberate about what intentional and deliberate about what breaks, what oases you're putting in breaks, what oases you're putting in breaks, what oases you're putting in your desert of a day or your hell of a your desert of a day or your hell of a your desert of a day or your hell of a landscape or whatever it is. Build in landscape or whatever it is. Build in landscape or whatever it is. Build in some breaks. There's small things you some breaks. There's small things you some breaks. There's small things you can do for a minute or two. If you're can do for a minute or two. If you're can do for a minute or two. If you're going to be on social media, look at going to be on social media, look at going to be on social media, look at things that actually make you smile. For things that actually make you smile. For things that actually make you smile. For me, videos of Vishla puppies, whatever. me, videos of Vishla puppies, whatever. me, videos of Vishla puppies, whatever. Two or three minutes guaranteed. Ah, oh Two or three minutes guaranteed. Ah, oh Two or three minutes guaranteed. Ah, oh god, that's just too cute. I'm in a god, that's just too cute. I'm in a god, that's just too cute. I'm in a different mindset already. This was so different mindset already. This was so different mindset already. This was so critical for me when I heard this one critical for me when I heard this one critical for me when I heard this one because I realized that what I do when I because I realized that what I do when I because I realized that what I do when I have these micro breaks in a really busy have these micro breaks in a really busy have these micro breaks in a really busy busy day is I'm often again using these busy day is I'm often again using these busy day is I'm often again using these sort of slightly bad unconscious sort of slightly bad unconscious sort of slightly bad unconscious strategies as I'm like well those are my strategies as I'm like well those are my strategies as I'm like well those are my moments to get through the other stuff. moments to get through the other stuff. moments to get through the other stuff. That's when I'll go through my email or That's when I'll go through my email or That's when I'll go through my email or that's when I'll check in on what's that's when I'll check in on what's that's when I'll check in on what's happening on the news or something like happening on the news or something like happening on the news or something like that and it's exactly the wrong thing I that and it's exactly the wrong thing I that and it's exactly the wrong thing I need at that time. It's like the thing need at that time. It's like the thing need at that time. It's like the thing my brain goes to is exactly the wrong my brain goes to is exactly the wrong my brain goes to is exactly the wrong stuff that I really need in that moment. stuff that I really need in that moment. stuff that I really need in that moment. >> The news doesn't matter what side of >> The news doesn't matter what side of >> The news doesn't matter what side of political landscape you're on. It's political landscape you're on. It's political landscape you're on. It's upsetting regardless. It's angering upsetting regardless. It's angering upsetting regardless. It's angering regardless. So like be very thoughtful regardless. So like be very thoughtful regardless. So like be very thoughtful about when do I want to be activated one about when do I want to be activated one about when do I want to be activated one way or the other. When do I want to feel way or the other. When do I want to feel way or the other. When do I want to feel like engaged in that way? Do it when like engaged in that way? Do it when like engaged in that way? Do it when it's good for you. Do it when you can it's good for you. Do it when you can it's good for you. Do it when you can come down for it, not just that that come down for it, not just that that come down for it, not just that that lingers. And certainly don't do it lingers. And certainly don't do it lingers. And certainly don't do it between stressful meetings because again between stressful meetings because again between stressful meetings because again that'll put you into fight or flight and that'll put you into fight or flight and that'll put you into fight or flight and then predispose you to go into the next then predispose you to go into the next then predispose you to go into the next meeting really charged up and that means meeting really charged up and that means meeting really charged up and that means more sensitized, more reactive, all of more sensitized, more reactive, all of more sensitized, more reactive, all of it. But managing stress can sometimes it. But managing stress can sometimes it. But managing stress can sometimes require more than a restful micro require more than a restful micro require more than a restful micro moment. In his work with small business moment. In his work with small business moment. In his work with small business owners, Ben Walter has seen that dayong owners, Ben Walter has seen that dayong owners, Ben Walter has seen that dayong breaks can also be transformative. breaks can also be transformative. breaks can also be transformative. >> The most effective strategies I see are >> The most effective strategies I see are >> The most effective strategies I see are when you reserve at least one specific when you reserve at least one specific when you reserve at least one specific time every week where you don't work. time every week where you don't work. time every week where you don't work. There's a reason that, you know, There's a reason that, you know, There's a reason that, you know, whatever your religion, whether your day whatever your religion, whether your day whatever your religion, whether your day is Saturday or your day is Sunday, is Saturday or your day is Sunday, is Saturday or your day is Sunday, there's a reason that people figured there's a reason that people figured there's a reason that people figured this out like 5,000 years ago, that this out like 5,000 years ago, that this out like 5,000 years ago, that maybe a day of rest is probably pretty maybe a day of rest is probably pretty maybe a day of rest is probably pretty healthy for you, both physically and healthy for you, both physically and healthy for you, both physically and emotionally. It gives you an anchor and emotionally. It gives you an anchor and emotionally. It gives you an anchor and it gives you something to look forward it gives you something to look forward it gives you something to look forward to every week, and that you can build on to every week, and that you can build on to every week, and that you can build on as the business grows. So, I think the as the business grows. So, I think the as the business grows. So, I think the only way to manage it is to have set only way to manage it is to have set only way to manage it is to have set times where, but for emergencies, you times where, but for emergencies, you times where, but for emergencies, you don't work. don't work. don't work. >> But Ben's favorite tip for managing >> But Ben's favorite tip for managing >> But Ben's favorite tip for managing stress isn't about what you do on your stress isn't about what you do on your stress isn't about what you do on your own. It's about who you surround own. It's about who you surround own. It's about who you surround yourself with when times get tough. yourself with when times get tough. yourself with when times get tough. >> When you carry the weight of the world >> When you carry the weight of the world >> When you carry the weight of the world on your shoulders and you don't have on your shoulders and you don't have on your shoulders and you don't have anyone to share that with, it's pretty anyone to share that with, it's pretty anyone to share that with, it's pretty rough. So, one of the big pieces of rough. So, one of the big pieces of rough. So, one of the big pieces of advice that I give to all of my clients advice that I give to all of my clients advice that I give to all of my clients is to find a network. A lot of small is to find a network. A lot of small is to find a network. A lot of small businesses have formed a community that businesses have formed a community that businesses have formed a community that support each other. I gave the example support each other. I gave the example support each other. I gave the example that coffee company, one of their that coffee company, one of their that coffee company, one of their competitors helped them get through it. competitors helped them get through it. competitors helped them get through it. And so, whether it's complimentary And so, whether it's complimentary And so, whether it's complimentary businesses or competitive businesses, businesses or competitive businesses, businesses or competitive businesses, doesn't matter. Find like-minded people doesn't matter. Find like-minded people doesn't matter. Find like-minded people who've had experiences like yours. and who've had experiences like yours. and who've had experiences like yours. and you should form a support network with you should form a support network with you should form a support network with them and have people that you can in a them and have people that you can in a them and have people that you can in a safe way share your challenges with who safe way share your challenges with who safe way share your challenges with who can share some of their experiences and can share some of their experiences and can share some of their experiences and how they solve them. It's a really how they solve them. It's a really how they solve them. It's a really important outlet for people. I meet with important outlet for people. I meet with important outlet for people. I meet with small businesses all the time. And the small businesses all the time. And the small businesses all the time. And the difference between the ones who feel difference between the ones who feel difference between the ones who feel like they are alone and the ones who like they are alone and the ones who like they are alone and the ones who found their people and know they aren't found their people and know they aren't found their people and know they aren't is dramatic. You're giving a strategy is dramatic. You're giving a strategy is dramatic. You're giving a strategy that fits so nicely with this science of that fits so nicely with this science of that fits so nicely with this science of social emotional regulation that one of social emotional regulation that one of social emotional regulation that one of the great ways we can regulate our the great ways we can regulate our the great ways we can regulate our emotions and deal with our stress is to emotions and deal with our stress is to emotions and deal with our stress is to talk to other people about it. But it talk to other people about it. But it talk to other people about it. But it doesn't work to talk to other people if doesn't work to talk to other people if doesn't work to talk to other people if they don't understand what you're going they don't understand what you're going they don't understand what you're going through. And so finding this network of through. And so finding this network of through. And so finding this network of people who are going through the same people who are going through the same people who are going through the same thing is like the best form of social thing is like the best form of social thing is like the best form of social emotional regulation because they're emotional regulation because they're emotional regulation because they're giving you strategies that they know are giving you strategies that they know are giving you strategies that they know are going to work for you. going to work for you. going to work for you. >> I mean, there's nothing in the world >> I mean, there's nothing in the world >> I mean, there's nothing in the world quite as comforting as when someone quite as comforting as when someone quite as comforting as when someone says, "I know exactly what that feels says, "I know exactly what that feels says, "I know exactly what that feels like. That's really hard." [music] and like. That's really hard." [music] and like. That's really hard." [music] and they mean it. That's just calming. Oh, they mean it. That's just calming. Oh, they mean it. That's just calming. Oh, I'm not alone. This isn't unique to me. I'm not alone. This isn't unique to me. I'm not alone. This isn't unique to me. Other people have had to experience Other people have had to experience Other people have had to experience this. [music] Let me learn from them. this. [music] Let me learn from them. this. [music] Let me learn from them. Work stress may be climbing, but that Work stress may be climbing, but that Work stress may be climbing, but that doesn't mean you have to live in fight doesn't mean you have to live in fight doesn't mean you have to live in fight orflight mode. By managing your mindset, orflight mode. By managing your mindset, orflight mode. By managing your mindset, protecting your recovery time, and protecting your recovery time, and protecting your recovery time, and building the right support around you, building the right support around you, building the right support around you, you can learn to keep stress in [music] you can learn to keep stress in [music] you can learn to keep stress in [music] that healthier nerves range. If you're that healthier nerves range. If you're that healthier nerves range. If you're curious to learn more sciencebacked curious to learn more sciencebacked curious to learn more sciencebacked advice on managing work stress, [music] advice on managing work stress, [music] advice on managing work stress, [music] check out Guy Winch's new book, Mind check out Guy Winch's new book, Mind check out Guy Winch's new book, Mind Over Grind: How to Break Free When Work Over Grind: How to Break Free When Work Over Grind: How to Break Free When Work Hijacks Your Life. [music] And if you'd Hijacks Your Life. [music] And if you'd Hijacks Your Life. [music] And if you'd like to hear more personal stories from like to hear more personal stories from like to hear more personal stories from small business owners about their small business owners about their small business owners about their makeorb breakak moments, check out Ben makeorb breakak moments, check out Ben makeorb breakak moments, check out Ben Walters's podcast, The Unshakables. Walters's podcast, The Unshakables. Walters's podcast, The Unshakables. [music] [music] [music] If you have thoughts about today's If you have thoughts about today's If you have thoughts about today's episode and the science of workstress, episode and the science of workstress, episode and the science of workstress, we'd love to hear them. You can email us we'd love to hear them. You can email us we'd love to hear them. 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That's it [music] for today, but be sure That's it [music] for today, but be sure That's it [music] for today, but be sure to return next week for our special to return next week for our special to return next week for our special coverage of this year's upcoming World coverage of this year's upcoming World coverage of this year's upcoming World Happiness Report, which will be dropping Happiness Report, which will be dropping Happiness Report, which will be dropping later this week. [music] That's all next later this week. [music] That's all next later this week. [music] That's all next time on the happiness lab with me, Dr. time on the happiness lab with me, Dr. time on the happiness lab with me, Dr. Lauri Santos.