CHRIS HEMSWORTH Opens Up for the FIRST Time Ever: Anxiety, Imposter Syndrome, His Dad's Alzheimer's

Key Takeaway

Transform anxiety from enemy to ally by reframing your physical response. When you feel nervous energy - elevated heart rate, sweaty palms - don't try to suppress it. Instead, narrate it differently: 'This isn't fear, this is excitement. This is my body preparing me to perform at my best.' The physical sensations are identical whether we interpret them as fear or excitement - the difference lies in our label.

Episode Overview

Chris Hemsworth discusses his childhood in remote indigenous communities, the evolution of his acting career, and his relationship with performance anxiety. He reveals how he learned to transform anxiety into excitement and shares insights about the balance between caring deeply about your work while maintaining mental well-being.

Full Transcript

Transcript of CHRIS HEMSWORTH Opens Up for the FIRST Time Ever: Anxiety, Imposter Syndrome, His Dad's Alzheimer's from On Purpose. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

Chris Hemsworth, welcome to On Purpose. Thanks for having me. It's great to be here. We're in Byron. Is that to be specific? So, come to Byron to interview you and I was just sharing with you when I first started the show, you were on that top list of people I wanted to sit down with. So, it took me seven years to get to Byron Bay. Thank you very much. But I'm really really grateful. So, yeah, I've been such a fan of your work. Loved watching your interviews.

Uh felt felt just a connection to what you're doing. And then as you've gone into this world of Limitless and now this incredible documentary with your father, it's it's such a phenomenal evolution from the authentic version of you that I feel we've always got to see in interviews. So Oh, appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah, really, really special. Yeah, I love the show and and it's I'm glad you could make it out here and we could do this in my hometown. So beautiful. Well, I wanted to dive right in because in the dock we get such a up close and personal feel of who you are, your family, your parents, [clears throat] [clears throat] [clears throat] and I love understanding how people became who they were.

So, the first question is, what's a childhood memory that you have that you feel defines who you are today that feels like it is such a strong part of your personality today? What you see in the documentary is is um the road trip my dad and I take back to uh the community that we grew up in, this indigenous community, Northern Territory in the outback of Australia. And they were were were my definitely my most vivid earliest memories. I I'm have trouble remembering kind of years earlier than that and years after that, you know, because I think one, it was so starkly different to the environment in Melbourne where I grew up.

Um but I think there was it had such an profound impact on me um due to for so many reasons the connection with the land the the people in that community um the experience itself was so dramatically different to anything else I'd done but um the immersion within that that that in indigenous culture in Australia and and having um feeling the sort of influence from the I guess a sort of traditional way of life that that they embodied and and the um the welcoming we received in that town.

Um I still have when I think about who I am and my appreciation and sense of gratitude and and place in the world definitely definitely definitely I I I'm brought back to that period of my life. I'm [snorts] trying to think of a sort of a single sort of thing for you, but that that period of time for me is the most um the most vivid and and wonderful. wonderful. wonderful. What images flash in your mind when you're thinking about that time? not owning a pair of shoes, not not having a TV, um being the only white kid in an indigenous school, um Buffalo walking down the street, um being 5 hours drive from the nearest shops, you know, it was like a little remote community in in the middle of the outback and but how normal it all felt, you know, and to be sort of thrust back out into that environment now would would be sort of a shock to the system in in many ways.

But that was um as familiar and comfortable and and and organic as sort of anything I've ever felt. And um you know that I see photographs now that prompt instant [clears throat] sort of visceral feelings and a deep sort of um nostalgia and and and and warmth and and happiness, you know, and a sense of connection because that was, you know, we lived in a tent at one point, you know, with with with my parents and and my older brother. Um we then lived in a sort of you know a very older sort of rundown house but it was it was as as you know wonderful of a childhood as you could ask for.

You know there were no it was sort of boundless the opportunities where the imagination could go and the sort of the physical experience you know um it was again unlike kind of anything else I've had since then. you know, there was a real sort of Peter Pan quality to that um sense of fantasy and and adventure that that was instilled in us from that age. But that that environment definitely awoken in us. us. us. Yeah. And I guess when you're living it, you don't know how special it is.

Yeah. I it it I think like all of our experiences that you know there the norm is what is in front of you, you know, and if I had something to compare it with at the time I I may have, but it it was that was my way of life. And then it was kind of a shock coming back to Melbourne and and and go and um adapting into I guess the world that you know suburban neighborhood you know structured sort of um you know town that we lived in and catching the bus to school and a train and all the sort of the usual things.

That for me was an adaptation that was I remember kind of going oh this is this is very different to where where we had sort of where we'd come from. come from. come from. Yeah. Your your dad in the documentary says that as a kid you would say, "I'm going to Hollywood." Going to Hollywood. Yeah. I'm going to Hollywood. Where where did that come from? From this world that you grew up in. I think part of it was growing up in Northern Territory because there was this sort of sense of adventure instilled in me then.

And and um I remember my dad reading Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit to me and and and my mom as well. and that sense of sort of fantasy and and imagination awakened through through a sort of a very big cultural difference, but also I think being outdoors, you know, the opportunity for not boredom, but not being continuously being continuously being continuously stimulated and entertained like we are sort of nowadays with devices and so on. There was I guess being in that environment awoke something in me that I still now either try and get back to or when I do attach myself to it, it ignites that sense of fantasy and that sense of adventure.

Um but through reading books and then when we moved back to Melbourne um every weekend was you know we would go to the movies or we'd hire a film or we'd go on hikes and we go surfing and we go camping and and I remember from a very young age not wanting to be an actor but wanting to be one of those characters in one of those films, one of those books. And the closest thing I could be to, you know, an elf in the Lord of the Rings was, you know, if I dressed up and played one in a movie or the closest thing I could, you know, um, get to as far as intergalactic travel or something was playing the character in that movie.

And and and and I guess it was a sort of an escapism of sorts, but not that I was escaping from anything I didn't want to be a part of. It was It was It was it kept me captivated, you know, and still does the um transportation to other worlds and inhabiting other characters and other spaces. Um it's Yeah. And and it sort of it comes from a different each film and each character I sort of I look at and that sort of journey I embark on it.

there's a sort of a real organic um attachment to it as far as I wouldn't say I'm seeking out that character as much as I sort of arrive. And then as you sort of fall into a character or fall into a a film, it then sort of takes on a life of its own and takes you to places that I think you just have to be open to, you know, interpretation but open for the journey. You mean by playing a character? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It opens up a different mindset or different different different for sure.

Yeah, it probes different parts of your soul or psyche and and there's a premeditated sort of approach and a sort of calculated approach and then there's an absolute sort of demolishing of all that preparation and surrendering to the process and then it and that's that's the part I love, you know, and you only get that through an extreme amount of preparation and calculation, calculation, calculation, but then the um the letting go portion of it and which is where the risk is involved. But then that for me is where the greatest adventure occurs is is is through kind of really leaning in and really surrendering to the experience.

That rings true. I I had the fortune of sitting with Kobe Bryant before he sadly passed away on the show and he talked about how about how about how structure leads to spontaneity. Yeah. But it was that discipline as you're saying leads to the ultimate ability to be free and surrender. But as I hear you say, I'm wondering, it's obviously not something that you mathematically strategically access because you're saying it's happening in this really natural authentic way where it leads you. What roles made you feel that way or which ones are the ones that have a strong memory for that for you where you went, "Oh, wow.

This led me to a place I didn't imagine it would." I mean it's interesting because I sort of I think I undulate from the extreme analytical overruminating calculated analysis of something and then into the sort of you know the more sort of mad scientist you know intuitive sort of approach and but they go hand in hand you know the sort of the polarity between the two I find is is is really helpful and I'd say the I did a film with George Miller um part of the Mad the series called Furiosa.

And and that for me was was probably the the greatest example of that kind of character taking over and and being led into a place which you you didn't plan for. But it only the sort of improvisational portion of it or the experimentation of it or the you know throw caution in the wind and just [clears throat] leap leap in head first came from months and months or actually a couple of years because I had read the script two years before and while I was doing other films I was thinking about that character.

who began to sort of infect my my thoughts, you know, daily and to the point where I had to kind of try and put it aside because I had to get back to the film I was currently on. I was talking to George Miller about that and he goes, "Well, selfishly, I don't mind. You know, you can give our character more of that." And it was the first time I kind of started journaling as the character and started doing a um you know, he was a pretty ugly villainous individual on paper and and on screen as well, I guess.

Um, but I had to find a way to sort of understand and empathize with his position and from his point of view he was the hero as in you know everyone's. And so by the time I got to set, everything that I'd sort of planned began to fall away and each day was again kind of an experiment and a a real sort of deep dive into the psyche of this individual and what were the sort of justifications for his actions which were perceived from one angle as you know um horrific but from his angle and his position from where his people were standing survival of the fittest and um [snorts] and yeah I've had that a few times in my career But that certainly stands out as as one of the biggest ones.

I feel like there's so much empathy in becoming an actor because you're trying to understand this character that you don't know but you have to kind of get to know and you may not feel what they feel. My one of my friends is an acting coach in LA and I he invited me to just go watch one of his sessions with actors at night. So I went to see him a couple of weeks ago and I was just like if anyone feels lonely they should just go to an acting class.

Everyone was so encouraging of each other and there was this real camaraderie that everyone had and everyone give each other feedback and all of it was about dissecting character and emotion feeling and I was like wow I've learned more from this than you know about human emotion and about human potential and depth than you would going to a class because there's so much study and there's so many layers and there's so many and and as I'm hearing you talk about it I'm like yeah there's such a but it sounds like you love that Like it sounds like I love it for sure.

I mean, I've always had a big interest in psychology and understanding our sort of inner workings, our soul and our psyche and us as human beings and how we interact with one another and and nature versus nurture and the how and why of it all. And for me, there's just something therapeutic about the experience of acting and and putting on the clothes of a completely different individual and having the chance to um look at the world through a different lens. Yeah. Yeah. And um and I see that as a real sort of gift um compared to a lot of sort of I guess you know our uh our working life.

It is there's just an abundance of creativity and exploration there which which I find you know incredibly helpful just even I mean from each character I find I come out whether or not I agree with their character or not I've been able to sit in their shoes for a moment and look at the world in a different way. And I think there's a sort of a humility that's forced upon you in that sense which which I find um I find is a really interesting sort of experiment and as you've you pointed out I think very healthy for all of us to do.

You know, I know a lot of directors that, that, that, you know, have never acted and it scares the hell out of them, but they go and do acting classes for that reason to understand the psychology, but also understand how you're going to come out um this character or what the position is that you might take and as opposed to standing on this side of the fence and making assumptions, stepping into those different environments certainly, I don't know, gives you a greater sense of agency over.

Yeah. Has there ever been a character you played where you felt I wish that one didn't rub off on me or left a bit of them with you that I mean it's it I find it's not that the lines get blurred but I've been in on press tour as defending my character and then we tapped on the shoulder and like the guy killed a bunch of people. I'm like oh yeah okay besides that part you know. Um, and so you it's sort of um I I I don't think the the state I will get myself in for certain characters through the day, a very heightened sort of um fight or flight type state where I um there's a sort of feels like there's electricity running through my bones and and you've especially when there's a lot of dialogue and there's a lot of reaction lot going on that I find very hard to switch off.

It's not so much the um the character that I'm trying to shake. It's the energy that's required to play that character. And I find with one of the hardest things to the high to come off is improvisational sort of comedy, you know, and I remember doing um um um when we did Ragnarok that we there was a lot of that in there and it was a very new version of the character and I would get into this sort of ecstatic sort of, you know, electrified state and be kind of drinking coffee and Red Bull and slamming, you know, energy drink to try and elevate that more.

And then it was like, well, I'd have to kind of rein that in and get home and I'd just be sort of twitching and go to the gym and try to come off that. So, I find that the the residual effect of the state of the character more so than the character. character. character. It's more about getting into character. Yeah. Because you could put that that that that that I don't necessarily have to believe I am the, you know, um, leader of an army or whatever.

whatever. whatever. It's it's more what would I feel in that situation that you then embody and then that sort of takes over. Yeah. Yeah. That's fascinating to hear. Yeah. Yeah. That the but but the jitters are real. Like that's like you've talked before about this idea of how your acting career has actually brought on huge anxiety. Yeah. And stress. Where where's that come from? [snorts] from? [snorts] from? [snorts] I remember when I when I first started acting, I had it it it immediately once I sort of locked into the idea that I was going to become an actor, it was an absolute obsession.

It was an addiction. It was all I talked about it. there was sort of there was no shadow of a doubt that was what I was going to do and there was a um ignorance and a naivity that that that was there um about the reality of that how difficult that was going to be but that it you need a fair amount of madness I think to sort of excel in any space there needs to be a certain amount of um of um of um [sighs and gasps] absolute absolute absolute deeply profound sort of commitment to it you know you [snorts] talk about Kobe Bryant and anyone in who's excelled in their their field and you know a number of of of sports players and individuals that I look to that's sort of on the spectrum in some sense you know that there's a sort of a mastery there which is otherworldly but it does require a sort of an insane dedication to it so I remember when I was finishing high school it became this obsession that was all I was going to do and everything I was going to do from it was I was going to help pay off my parents house I was going to do this I was going to do that I was going to take care of my family and friends and oh you know look at all the amazing things I could do.

And every time I go into a job, as small as it was and inconsequential, in my mind was like, if I screw up this one scene, then it will somehow make its way to Hollywood from Australia and I'll never get a job again or if I screw up this one audition. one audition. one audition. And it was that kind of pressure. It was I was thinking 10 years ahead. And [snorts] then so by the time I got on to um um um Home and Away, which was you know that big soap opera, longest running soap opera in Australia which I'm from London you're aware of.

I flew into that that experience with enthusiasm and excitement and I was it was great for a couple of months and all of a sudden I was hit with this wave of anxiety because I was looking at the outcome rather than the sort of process and I was looking at the um I'm doing it for this reason and that reason rather than being in the moment in the present and it really detracted from what I was doing each day and it was be the last thing I'd think about before I go to bed was what scenes I'd screwed up and how I should have done this, I should have done that.

And as soon as I'd wake up, it' be like a shot of adrenaline about what I was going to screw up. And I don't know what I think it became from a sort of expecting too much of myself which is there's a slight sort of contradiction to that too because as I said it requires that obsessive you know addictive sort of concentration but concentration but concentration but I it's the ability to sort of hold that obsession and that absolute need and want for it to to to achieve something great that you want to achieve and then at the same time to completely let it go and not care.

care. care. And so I had to do this strange dance around trying to convince myself I didn't care, but in the preparation time to to motivate myself, I would have to care a hell of a lot. And and so it's sort of the um you know, the the two the two voices, the Jaclyn Hyde version of of oneself that is sort of both need to be kept in check. You know, it's it's your purpose pulls you, your fear pushes you. there's a sort of strange um balance with the two extremes I find useful but also terrifying when not kept in check.

Um, and I and I and I that sat with me for years, that anxiety. And then I remember, and I've talked about this in a couple of interviews, but reading a few books around performance anxiety specifically and looking at different sports players and musicians and and um people who performed at a high level of public speaking and they took their all their sort of measurements, you know, um the physical sort of response responses prior to this these engagements and said, "Are you scared or are you excited?" And whether you know half the group was in this gag category, half was in excited, the physical response was exactly the same across the board, elevated heart rate, all the things you, you know, you would imagine.

So it was about the sort of um the takeaway was it was about an interpretation to that feeling. And so when I would have nervous energy come up and all those things that at one point I would signal to myself were fear, I to just, you know, narrate that in a different sense and say, "Oh no, this is my signaling for excitement. this is not my linking for fear. And again, that's I still have to keep that in check and it sort of out of nowhere will take me down one path or the other and I've got to kind of wrangle my way back to the preferred place which is which is that the enthusiastic shoted, you know.

Yeah. What what's fascinating about that as I'm hearing you say it is it actually makes you better at what you do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like that pressure it sounds like that you were putting on yourself when you're doing Home and Away. Yeah. Even though it wasn't a great experience for you, it's making you better at the thing. Yeah. And that's what I find so fascinating about people like yourself or high performing athletes or any of the types of people you mentioned is that the thing that makes you better at the craft doesn't necessarily improve the quality of your life and your mind.

And that's that dance you're talking about, which is so I've got to kind of be able to unleash the beast to be able to Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. do the work that I do, but then I don't want the beast to eat me. Yeah, because then there's nothing left when the beast is, you know, satisfied. For sure. There sort of a blessing and a curse in a way. And it's because I I've had experiences when, you know, the thing I was trying to remove, which was that heightened sense of awareness and the and then in fact the, the, the, you know, you're absorbing too much information and it's every little movement or sound.

I'm like, "Oh god, I wish I could numb that. I wish I could reduce this sort of state and be more present." And then I've found my way to that place either through um not caring for one reason or another, being purely exhausted, you know, you night shoots, you just got there is no adrenaline left in the body. I'm like, oh, this is great. I'm comfortable. comfortable. comfortable. And the first note is, yeah, it's a bit flat, you know. Then the next take, you know, and I'm like, oh great, the thing that I've been trying to get rid of is actually the secret source.

And and so that be again about the interpretation. I don't think the feeling itself is the problem. It's it's it's our label we put upon it. you know, which then causes all the problems. And so I say this to friends of mine who are auditioning or on set and having anxiety or problems. I'm like, you got to just you got to make friends with it. You got to look at it. It's very hard to recognize now, but it is a a gift in that sense. It it is your spider spidey senses coming alive.

It is the ability to think quicker and react faster and be more attuned to things if you you're allowing it in the space as opposed to trying, you know, don't think of a pink elephant. whatever you think of that's been glean and I've had so many people talk about like meditation prior to um walking on stage and calming down and for me that is like house of cards cuz it's like you're in that state and then the one little thing sets you off whereas I beforehand want to get my state and myself into that ecstatic sort of state because it's on my terms and now I own it as opposed to it being something that creeps in the back door I'm like no I want this bring it on big deep breath kind of you absorb it, use it, and then and then I found that that is has been really beneficial and and I've been able to use it for the good, you know, version of it as opposed to it transforming into the the one we're afraid of.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's it's what I hear you saying is that when it's in control of you, it feels like pressure and fear. And then when you're in control of it, when you're embodying it, yeah, it's now part of your narrative and part of your purpose and part of you feeling like, oh, this is fuel for how I want to perform rather than this is just reminding me of, hey, if I miss these three things, no one's going to care about me and I'll mess this up.

And that obviously is not helpful at all. And so you're saying befriending it is transforming it from being pressure and fear and fear and fear to being friendship and purpose. Absolutely. Yeah. There's an acceptance to it. there's a surrendering to it. There's an ownership to it as opposed to it being something you're trying to avoid. But that only comes through, I think, understanding the mechanisms or the mechanics around the fact that it is beneficial beneficial beneficial if you have that relationship to it. You know, it is the worst thing in the world if you're trying to avoid it.

Like, you know, shallow breath, heart rate's up, sweaty palms, like you can't think, everything just shuts down, you know. But if it's like no no these the the these these this physical response this emotional response I've programmed myself to see as a positive therefore it can be can be can be yeah [snorts] yeah you know and again [clears throat] you you'll see me broke down at one point go that trick ain't working today is it Chris I believe that travel is one of the greatest gifts that we've ever been given and Chase Sapphire Reserve has been my gateway to the world's most captivating destinations when I use my Chase Sapphire Reserve card.

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Use our link shopify.com/j now to start getting serious about building your future. Take it from me. It is time to start taking that idea you've had for a while and put it into action. And with Shopify, you'll have all the tools you need to ensure your idea becomes the best it can be. I've had a similar experience with public speaking where I've been public speaking for years on stages. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And if I really care, and that's my narrative kicking in. If I really care, I'll still get sweaty palms.

I'll still be shaking a little. I'll feel my heart rate go up. And I've learned that all of those things are just a sign that I care because I know if I get asked to speak somewhere and I don't really care, then I won't feel any of those things. And so I'm like, "Oh, I I feel like there's some stakes here and this is important." And then I have my practices to embody that and feel good about that. But then at the same time, when I went on tour two years ago and we were doing nearly 50 shows across the world, I was I was feeling a completely different level of anxiety than I'd ever felt.

And and I remember two days before when we were in rehearsals, I was just feeling really tight-chested. I talked to my doctor and I went in for a checkup and they were like, "It's just stress." And I was like, "Why am I stressed? I do this all the time, but there's always what what still makes you nervous or what still gives you a little bit of that stress now?" now?" now?" I mean, this stuff, you know, depressed, you know, walking on a set, it all it all definitely awakens that that that feeling.

And then it's a constant sort of dance and adaptable sort of um experience. But I think um I you know I probably have a much easier time now playing a character than I would being myself. Like in fact with this the series Limitless that was very new to me to to you know be in the documentary space and and play Chris and I I felt really uncomfortable from that and and I got better with it probably in the second season and this and this last episode with my dad but earlier on it was like I have nothing interesting to say.

I don't I'm not educated on these topics. I don't and I'm sort of a guinea pig in the experience. So maybe that's a good thing. But it it you you're far more critical of yourself than you are, I think, of someone you're pretending to be. Like you said before, it's a signaling that you care. I guess that discomfort, that anxiety, it's a signal that it's important on on on some level. And it's something that should be respected and paid attention to rather than, oh, I'm anxious.

H how dare I be anxious? and then the criticism and the judgment and then it's like slippery slope. slope. slope. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's so interesting to me how so many of us it's easier to pretend to be someone than ourselves. Not just for actors but all of us whether you're playing a performance at work and a persona or a persona with your friends. And it's it's so hard to just let go of that persona. And and it's almost like when I speak to comedians, they're always like, "Yeah, I just feel everyone just wants me to be funny all the time." and they just feel that constant pressure around friends, family, everything.

And they just want to be normal and have a bad day or whatever it may be. And uh you know, everyone feels that pressure to perform in a certain way. And it's almost like we're waiting for the person we can take off the outfit around and just kind of let go. I remember my mom talking to me about this years ago and and she was a high school teacher at the time and I said, "I'm [clears throat] nervous about this, that, and the other and being on a set and a producer and this and she goes, "It's the same in any environment, you know." She was me as the teacher.

Okay. Well, the principal is the producer and my students are the audience or you know and the my work colleagues or the other cast members. And in any line of work, you're faced with this it's this sort of a human experience that you can't escape. And and she talked about the same thing about kind of um understanding that and accepting that it always is a challenge. It's always a navigation of sorts that and and and rather than looking at it as my experience is unique and special to everyone else's and has more pressure than yours or this that the trapping, you know, as soon as you you kind of understand it is more common than uncommon.

I think there's some comfort in that. Like I remember listening to um [snorts] Anthony Hopkins and Kate Blanchett, you know, people I'd worked with and admired and and looked up to talking about, you know, imposter syndrome and oh this is might be my last job and and thinking really and but there was deep truth in that. You know, they still had that doubt but aware of the fact that maybe that doubt was a good thing because it kept you humble. It kept you motivated. kept you pushing forward and searching as opposed to thinking thinking thinking thinking you have all the answers, you know, and then there's a sort of and there's a lack of humility.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, you've talked about that as well, right? You've talked about that idea of fearing saying no because what if it all disappears? And when I read that you said that, I was like, "Wow." Like that you just wouldn't expect that. But we have these codings from whether when we were young or or wherever we picked them up where there's like a sense of like oh well this could all just go away like yeah we growing up in a house you know a loving beautiful household and great parents but we had no money and I remember the kind of financial burden that was on my parents and and overhearing conversations about bills and you know them borrowing money from my grand our grandparents or their parents to you know before payday came on every Thursday or you the $20 we might have had in our piggy bank kind of saying can we borrow that we'll give it to you next week and and not that they ever put that on us by any means and probably tried to shelter us from that and and but being very aware of it so I felt that responsibility and that need to um remove that uh pressure for them from a very early age and but still this crazy um irrational thought that oh it's going to run out or it's it's going to be taken in a way and I won't be able to do that thing.

It's like we've already done that thing, you know, they're all taken care of. Family, cousins, friends, you know, um and not to say my career couldn't end tomorrow, but financially that wouldn't be a concern due to kind of what we've put in place. And it's I don't know, it's it's irrational. It's illogical and and but again, I think it I don't know. It sort of I don't mind a little bit of that just to keep you hungry, you know, but it has to be tempered like all of it.

It's cuz the insanity of too much of that thinking is is incredibly detrimental and you never enjoy what you have because it's always about I need to get more and it's just not enough or what else can I do I do to secure this even more and it's this obsession with with with safety I think we all have and and the need for abundance and security and um but then I look at my own childhood where where I couldn't have felt more secure and safe And you know, so money isn't the answer to that yet.

You sort of trick yourself into thinking it is. And whether that's from societal sort of understandings and expectations and and the sort of our relationship to money as human beings and and what what how we um signal or represent safety and comfort in the wrong spaces maybe, but it's a constant navigation, isn't it? Yeah. It's it's almost like what you're talking about is the power of pattern. Yeah. Yeah. So with you giving the examples of like, oh, we're going to borrow this money here and we'll pay it back next week.

And so you're constantly living in a cycle of we don't have enough. We're going to have to figure it out. And that doesn't disappear when an external situation changes. We can all relate to that. I mean, I can I can relate to it in in my life, too. And what I love about what you said the most was it's not about I I think everyone over and I don't I don't like it when anyone says this whole money can't buy happiness stuff because I'm like well it solves a lot of problems for a lot of people and people and people and I I don't think that's the point.

But I love what you just said about this safety idea that you felt safe growing up and it wasn't because of that. And I think that's an even more powerful truth where it's like wait a minute what about if it was about safety and we all want to feel safe and secure. I felt very safe and secure because my I've always described it as my mom's love was like this protective shield where I never grew up ever questioning whether I was lovable or not. My mom loved me so much and that makes me feel very safe.

And that wasn't because we had money growing up and it wasn't because we always knew what was coming next. It was because you felt loved and you felt safe and secure because of that. For sure. For sure. For sure. And so there are certain problems that money solves and it's not safety. Yeah. uh but and it can provide and help for that but safety is a more core emotional need. emotional need. emotional need. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That comes from other things. That's another thing I've talked to my mom about that the fact that the lessons I learned and the person I am and my my brothers who we are you know growing up in that household we didn't have money now.

Well now my kids we have money. What's that going to do to them? Are they going to not learn the same lessons that we've had and have the same sense of sort of gratitude and appreciation for things? And she said, "You could look at, you know, households that had a lot of money, households that had little money, and you could pick about the same amount of successful stories versus unsuccessful, and at the end of the day, it comes down to love, security, safety. Do I feel like I'm connected and part of this household and appreciated and that I'm safe to explore who I am as an individual?

um or not, you know, regardless of the sort of exterior envir the larger environmental sort of superficial elements of it, it's around those core components as as of love and connection and that always gives me comfort, you know, in when when I'm sitting here thinking I'm destroying my kids by having this big house and you know the abundance and all this so on. But it's always a complex one to sort of to navigate in any space I guess is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I think it's true though.

I think It's what you've been saying this whole conversation already. It's like you keep talking about how everything's somewhat of a gift and a curse. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and it is that right? Like everything is like and as soon as you accept that everything's binary and there is no black or white, it is all gray. Yeah. And it is all teaching people to see the gray and see the nuance and see the complexity and recognizing that complexity is simplicity in the sense of as soon as you accept that it is all of it.

it. it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Then all of a sudden it's simple. Whereas when you're trying to find a definitive right way of doing it, it's pretty impossible to find it and you can rack your brain forever. It it is. And the sort of the the thing you're searching for only exists because of the thing you're not searching for. Like the the polarity of things, you know, and and it's the you know, there's no north without a south. There's not a one-sided mountain. That this that you you know, you only know love because you know grief.

And and I had this a friend of mine passed away recently and I had this the normal response of grief and anguish and pain and the why and the questions and and then through that all of a sudden this this lightness and this stillness because all the trivial things that I was ruminating around dayto-day all of a sudden dissipated and it was like wow it's that simple it can be gone in a second and I wouldn't know one without the other. And so the sort of grief is as much a blessing as the love is and and the joy because they coexist, you know, they they there isn't um an individual experience.

You can't have one without the other. and and that that for me I find helps navigate the complicated spaces of life and and the sort of moments of adversity is is kind of um you realizing that they're sort of one in the same thing and that that's and I don't do that I don't exist there all the time but every now and then and I feel like I get a glimpse of it and there's a quiet peacefulness to it it it you know it's like the sort of the louder it gets all of a sudden things just stop Alan Watts talks a lot about that I loves his sort of love the sort of philosophy around what he presents in that way.

that way. that way. Yeah. I'm sorry for your loss. It's like yeah I mean it's it's you know it was a sort of out of nowhere kind of tragic tragedy as as you know we all experience at some point. Um but it I just remember having that moment that sort of very odd sort of lightness in amongst the grief which which which maybe [clears throat] pause for a moment and consider where that came from and where that stems from and what that sort of of of what that message is.

Yeah. Yeah. It's your your grief is only as deep as your love would be because if you don't feel grief about something like that, well, it's probably because you didn't have it didn't have that love and care and it's but yeah, it's not that that's easy to recognize in the moment or moment or moment or pause and but when you get that access, it's something to worth holding on to. Yeah. And that was to trying to reconcile the sort of dichotomy around those two two feelings, you know, that the the sort of I almost then followed guilt that I wasn't feeling as sad as I was a moment ago.

And it's like what is this sort of complex kind of you know push and pull between those two states. Um, and it's like I don't know living in the questions rather than needing the answers to it, you know, all the time. The sort of the answers of trying to define the definitive why to something and the absolute certainty of something is just like a danger and a trapping I find. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. For sure. Yeah. And we we will just And the funny thing is even if you get a perfect right answer, you still won't be satisfied with it because you'll tomorrow.

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Then you like, wait a minute, if I look at it from this angle, you know, and it's it's fascinating how the human mind wants completion. completion. completion. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But still keeps locating all the incomplete loops. incomplete loops. incomplete loops. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. To get lost in. It's like the only certainty is uncertainty. You, you know, the only constant is inconstant. It's like Yeah. It's a uh it does a number on you for sure. It's like I don't know if you're when you're a kid you're kind of lying awake at night thinking about how big the universe is or what happens when we die and the nothing and then like uh oh it's like it kind of your brain arrives at a place of nothingness you know and that's as terrifying as it is kind of liberating.

Yeah. Does it help to have uh brothers in the industry too cuz I mean that's rare. rare. rare. Yeah. that that you know all of you have got incredible careers and it's like how how does that is it helpful to be able to share some of these challenges or or do you find that that's not really the case? case? case? No, it is definitely. Yeah, there's a sort of a point of reference or or a um there's a there's a camaraderie for sure and a support network between the three of us.

Um you you're in your sort of quieter moments of reflection, you can kind of go is this normal? am I kind of you know wrong to feel this that and the other and what's your experience in that and so absolutely having someone who is a complete sort of you know safe house for those discussions is is a is a real benefit benefit benefit yeah it's really powerful I feel like that's the hardest thing for most artists or athletes or people who go and live otherworldly lives and then it's almost like you have all your best friends back home or your the people you grew up with and you need them because they're the only ones who remind you of where you started and where it came from, but they don't understand don't understand don't understand the new world that you deal with.

And so you kind of have this version of it where they can reconcile with you the challenges. It's not like, "Oh, well, Chris, you're rich and famous. It doesn't matter." Yeah. It's like they're like, "Oh, no, those things are still real and you still experience imposter syndrome and you still experience anxiety." And they can vouch for that because they probably go through the same thing. Oh, for sure. I mean, I feel very lucky for for to have them in the same space. But the I'd say the thing that has had the biggest effect on me is the the team of people I get to work with, which is from my you know the hair and makeup team.

Um my costume guy that I travel with. Um my assistant, my trainer. That group I've known for about 14 years. Um my assistant, my trainer I've known for 35 years. I went to school with my two best mates. And to have the five or six of us travel together is in I thought was quite common. Why wouldn't you bring along your mates and have the same people with you? And the amount of people I've met in in the highest of positions that live this isolated lonely existence and don't have true friendships around and and groups of people who who remind them who they are really and and remind them or there's a there's a grounding quality to that.

Um I thought this is such a tragedy you know to give this this abundance of opportunity and this sort of um you know one ina million chance to sort of participate in this journey where you get to travel and you're dealing with all this um this experience and uh activation and interaction with the world on a level that you know most of us wouldn't get to experience yet you're doing it alone. You you have no no one to share it with. And I think that's the, you know, the social connection.

It's like it's only as good as the people standing either side of you that that get to walk that journey with you because, you know, there's times when you become a little jaded about it. There's times that it becomes a little norm normal. You times when it becomes boring and have someone to shake you and go, "Hey, pretty cool. Remember where we came from? Remember what we could be doing? Remember what we used to do." Um is a is incredibly invigorating. and and and I find myself um the thing I'm most grateful for I think in my career is having those core people with me constantly.

constantly. constantly. Yeah. How how do you define a real friend? friend? friend? Someone you can laugh with and who who you can laugh at each other. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And um and it's not offensive or it can be and that's okay. Someone you can really push it too far with and they're going to go I'll let that one slide. I'll get you next time. A true friend who keeps you humble. I think keeps you grounded. The sort of the sort of obvious things to say, but you know, through thick and thin, they're still standing there next to you.

And whether it was all to be tak if it all got taken away, they'd still be there having a laugh, patting you in the back saying, "Well, we gave it a shot." And I've got a lot of those people in my life I'm very thankful for. Yeah, I I I love that. It's it's definitely it's British banter is a big thing, but I got to learn that Australian banter is as strong if not better as well because when I was touring in uh when I toured Australia uh two years back and we did three shows at the Sydney Opera House.

We did Melbourne and Brisbane and I I have lots of moments in my show where I bring people up on stage and we're going through all sorts of experiments and activities and every single person would banter back. Like there was no one who was letting me get away with a joke at their expense and I was like this is amazing. It was so much fun. Everyone was so fast. The quips were great. Like it's good. There's a good self-deprecating sort of quality. Yeah. Yeah. And I love that too.

I I feel like, you know, I have a WhatsApp group with all my best mates back in London and all we do is just roast each other all day long. So whether someone posts something on social media or send this video out, whatever it is. And I think that that's such a good test of friendship. Oh, for sure. for sure. for sure. And and when we when me and my my wife's from London, too, when we moved to America, we me and my wife roast each other just as you would roast one of your boys.

And everyone on my team would just think we were having a massive argument because they just weren't used to it. So they thought we hated each other. other. other. It's our love language. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. We were like, "No, this is our, you know, it's not passive aggressive. This is this is just how it works." Yeah. works." Yeah. works." Yeah. I think that there was a study done recently and I don't know where I read it, but talking about that it is a sign of true friendship that you can roast each other and give each other and it's a sign that there is a um I don't know there's a trust there because you don't I wouldn't speak this way to someone that I didn't know that well and didn't trust that it was going to go okay with it.

It'd be uh it' be Yeah. I'd be in trouble. Yeah. Talking the worst the worst was when I first moved to LA and I was learning about getting a stylist and all this kind of stuff. And my friends would just take terrible pictures of me off the red carpet. Just keep putting them in the group. They're like, "Why are you wearing a skirt? What are you doing?" I'm sure you've had a million of those. Oh, for sure. I've seen me pictures of like, you know, certain sort of fashion sort of moments and looks and it's [clears throat] like, "Oh, it's number seven." you know, the hand on the ear and the scratch above the head and and you kind of I find myself doing those shoots and then stopping myself cuz three or four guys back home are going to see it and tell me about it rather than the vast majority of people who might not think twice about it.

Yeah. [clears throat] Yeah. Yeah. I love that. And you need that. You need that for sure. You need that. I think about it all the time. Every time my hair stylist tries a new hairstyle, whatever it is, I'm like, "Yeah, all right. I know who's I know who's gonna send me a picture of this tomorrow." tomorrow." tomorrow." Yeah. Uh it was I'm I'm so grateful that I got to see the documentary because uh I I went through a really and I share this because of how powerful it was for me to watch it.

And so my greatest spiritual mentor who I grew up around in London, he passed away during the pandemic and uh I couldn't go back to his funeral. I I was I was stuck in the United States and he was he was based in London. And I just remember finding out it was almost like everything changed for him and changed for us in like a night. It felt that way at least when when we became aware. Yeah. No, no, but it was watching your experience with your father was was so beautiful because beautiful because beautiful because it was all the I was like people are going to watch this and they're going to know what to do.

And that is such a beautiful thing to give people. It's such a gift to give to people because I didn't know cuz I'd never been through I'd never seen anyone publicly go through it. So when I watched it and I can't wait for everyone who's listening and watching right now to watch it too because it it gave me a real resolve to be like yeah this is going to help people. It's going to help a lot of people. Right. Right. Right. Um and and I wanted to ask you about that.

Your your father obviously got diagnosed with Alzheimer's. It was like what was that like the day you found out? Like what how did or how did you even notice it before the day you found out? Did you start to notice things? Um yeah. Yeah, it it's it's funny. I remember in the first season of Limitless um and Peter Ailla Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh we I did a bunch of blood work and you know looking at um my genetics and the plan was on camera. He was going to tell me about you know what I had a predisposition to and what I had a vulnerability to what my strengths were and so on.

And he said, "Oh, I don't want to do this on camera. I got to talk to you about something." And I thought, "Oh god, what is this?" You know, and Darren Aronowski called me. He said, "Peter wants to call you." And I got really nervous about what he was going to tell me and and he said, "You've got two copies of the ApoE4 gene, which um you get a copy each from from each parent. Um a two is not so bad, a three is a little worse, the four is the the worst one, and you've got two.

And it basically I think 1% of the population has two copies of this these genes, and it puts you in a high risk category for Alzheimer's. It's not a predeterministic gene. It's it's it's just an indication that you're you have a greater vulnerability to Alzheimer's. He told me that and I was like a moment of sort of shock, a moment of what does this mean? And then about 15 minutes later I was like just something old people get whatever. I told my parents about it and I remember my dad saying ah look don't worry about we'll figure it out.

that's, you know, you know, and I was like, "Yeah, I'm not concerned. It's just a strange thing to be told." And he was like, "It's fine, mate. You know, plenty of time. We'll figure out what you need to do to prevent it and so on." And I remember vividly that conversation of him sort of telling me not to be concerned about it. And then about 2 or 3 years later, my mom saying to me, I think we've got to get dad checked because there's these signs and things I'm concerned about.

um the obvious ones, memory and sort of slight mood changes and shifts and forgetfulness and so on. [sighs and gasps] So we he went and got tested and um found out he had two copies of the APOE4 um as did my mom which so you got one one in one of the population is April 4. What I don't know what the math is on an finding each other. So then by default me Luke and Liam all have two copies of April. So this sort of anomaly of of um of genetic sort of combinations and but my dad I was immediately hit with the the reality of what that meant for him because I had just gone through way ah it's a long way down the track don't worry push it aside then all of a sudden it was right in front of us [snorts] and and it was incred incred confronting but again I think the um we'll figure it up mentality was was was still very prominent.

Um and then as it began to get worse, we it became a real sort of shaking into the moment and a real sort of um shock to the system and oh wow, this sort of everything we thought was solid and true and consistent was going to dramatically change and shift. Um yeah and then and then and then we um I remember when I was looking at doing another episode for that series that series that series the discussion around would I do something around brain health with my dad and my first instinct was I just spent a lot of the press of the previous show trying to tell people that I didn't have Alzheimer's and you know and I thought ah I don't want to go through that but I also don't want to exploit or feel like I'm in any way putting him in an uncomfortable position or exploiting this kind of condition and how is it going to make him feel?

And I spoke to him about it and he was like, "Oh, absolutely. Yeah, no, let's, you know, maybe this will help shed some light on the issue and people will benefit from it and we might learn something along the way and and off we went in in in that direction." But there was a huge amount of grace and humility in in in his attitude to it. you know, he says it in the documentary, but his his biggest concern was being a burden. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And um and that was heartbreaking to to hear and consider.

And and I had never even up until we shot the documentary, the documentary, the documentary, I I didn't know even how he felt about it, you know, cuz I hadn't asked him. And [snorts] I felt this strange mix of sort of guilt while shooting as well as concern concern concern for for his condition, but guilt that I haven't hadn't asked this prior. Now I'm doing it on camera. And so it was a strange sort of orchestration of events. But what came out of it and what wasn't planned was this beautiful connection that my dad and I were able to have and this beautiful discussion that we probably wouldn't have had otherwise.

and someone who had just seen it recently. He said, "I'm about at the same, you know, I got diagnosed a few years ago. I'm in the same space as your dad's [clears throat] in." And he said, "I wish my kids could see this documentary. I hope they see it because there's so much stigma around it. They don't know what to say. They don't even talk to me about it. They don't ask me how I'm feeling about it. They don't ask me, "Am I afraid? Am I concerned?

What am I concerned about?" they just sort of talked to me about the footy or they talked to me about, you know, work. And that was a sort of a beautiful moment of realization. And I was there with my dad and I said this is hopefully what you know this is going to do for people is is um it motivate people into reaching out and removing the sort of awkwardness around the uncomfortable conversations and actually reaching out to people and allowing each other to be vulnerable, allowing each other to talk about their fears and their concerns and help navigate it together as opposed to again having blinkers on and sort of burying our heads in the sand, you know.

Yeah. I feel like this is, you know, it's it's almost it's such a big thing and it's such a hard thing that it's hard to be like, oh, when we've had hard things happen in the family before, we'd talk about it. This is this is different to that even though everyone's an adult now, you know, your family and everyone's grown up. It's it's a difficult conversation to have and it's Have you as a family always had open conversations and emotional conversations and difficult conversations or has there not really been a need to have one?

And no, we we have, but there hasn't been a need as um uh as I guess as as important as this one. You know, it wasn't as personal like we we've obviously had, you know, people die and and situations occur and things that we were all, you know, confronting and and and the you know, human experience of tragedy and and and and so on, but it wasn't as in front of us as this was. And the interesting the complex thing about I think dementia and Alzheimer's is it's when the signs first start to show they're very subtle.

So you still sort of think, oh, we can manage this, you know, and um and then it gets over time a little worse and depending on the regression, you know, some people it happens in 6 months and they're the sort of vegetable cataconic state whereas um and there's some people it's a it's a slower um regression and and and so again there's there's an easy um option to sort of ignore those subtle changes and I and and I think this experience made it um far more prominent for all of us than we had to pay attention to.

And even my mom had said, you know, my dad did the interview, she's like, I never even heard him talk like that. I didn't even know he felt that. I didn't know he was experiencing that. and because he didn't want to put that burden upon someone else and and and um [snorts] and so yeah, I I I I guess I'm thankful for the opportunity to to embark on this sort of journey with him and have as far as the documentary went because it it ignited something in in I think all of us in my family to to be a lot more proactive and a lot more present and and a lot more connected because, you know, We're watching sort of memories disappear in front of us the first time you're going through it.

You like and same as my experience like before the pandemic, before he did pass away, I would go back to see him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And every time I'd go back, I'd notice especially because I was living in LA. So every time I'd go back, I'd notice big changes than the people who were with him every day. And it was like I'd go back maybe every four months to see him or whatever it was. And it's like the first time he'd he'd still remember my name, but he'd forget that I was there after like 10 minutes and then say hello again.

And then the next time I'd go, he'd remember my name, but then he'd only he'd forget me every 30 seconds or whatever it was. And then, you know, you just I saw that decline because I wasn't with him every day. How long between when he was Oh my god. diagnosed when he Maybe like I think I'd have to check the exact time, but maybe like 3 to four years. years. years. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Like three to Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Yeah. Yeah, Yeah.

Yeah, it's it's my the same time my dad was diagnosed um the a friend of ours was diagnosed diagnosed diagnosed and my dad's actually in a remarkable position compared to a friend of ours who who can barely speak and that glazed vague look of sort of confusion con 24/7. Um my dad it's the short-term memory you know and and it's the older memories are still very strong and evident. he can sit here and recognize people but there's some repetition now occurring more than there was but um you know I'm thankful that it's hasn't happened as fast as a lot of instances you know was it was about probably four maybe even five years ago you know yeah that's yeah no I'm happy to hear that too and it was it's beautiful to watch you go back to your childhood hope like rebuilt rebuilt redesign and when everyone watches it they'll know what I mean when I say that but just like it's such a special thing to do.

Like I I can't imagine what it felt like for him and for you to even go back there as like a like a like a Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. fully grown adult cuz he was an adult when he was there last but you know. No. And it was um you know the reminiscence therapy is what it was called about you know this basically um stimulating old memories and the hippocampus and and and triggering memories that held a great amount of or larger um emotional responses. So whether it be exhilarating, exciting, nerve-wracking, those intense memories to stimulate those via looking at old photographs, talking to old friends from the past, discussing things that happened in the past.

What we did was a very elaborate supercharged version of that. that. that. you know, we had a a film crew with us and a production and and they basically took the house that we grew up in and stripped all the furniture out and somehow sourced somehow sourced somehow sourced furniture and posters and DVD players and whatever, you know, that we had as kids and set the house up the way it was when we lived there. And it [snorts] was um beyond sort of comprehension that when I first walked in, I was struggling to sort of articulate how I felt about it because my brain didn't know what to do with it.

And um [snorts] and it was remarkable sort of seeing my dad sort of come to life in moments and and and it trigger all of these other memories and um better and then my mom going through the house and it triggering a different experience for her. you know, it was a reminder of the passage of time and the memories she had then, but the memories we may not have, you know, in in a few years time of the disappearing. Uh, but it was um yeah, a pretty wild experience.

Yeah. Yeah. It's it just fully takes you back and it's I I imagine that while you're doing this because you're doing the supercharged version, there's a sense of sense of sense of I wonder how your thoughts on how making memories has changed because we say that as humans like, oh, we should make let's make memories, but I don't know if we really think about it as profoundly as you do when you're faced with faced with faced with not knowing how many more you can make and how many of the parts.

So, how is how has your thought process on like make the idea of making memories been impacted? impacted? impacted? I think my time that I spend with him now is um is is a lot simpler than than I would have thought would have attempted in the past. I I thought it had to be a bigger experience to do something, you know, incredibly memorable. And I've realized now that the the greatest moments are just sitting there being with him and and seeing him have someone listen to him and see him have someone see him and pay attention and and watching him through this even this documentary documentary documentary all of a sudden he had agency in something again you know and and not just because of there certainly having Alzheimer's the awareness around I'm losing control and I'm I can't sort lead the pack or be in charge of, you know, the space.

I'm very much a passenger or maybe a patient but also that thing that happens at a certain age and I've watched my parents you know the last kind of 10 years the transition of wow they've been the authority and now they're looking to us and what that does to the ego and all and it's it's it takes a great amount of grace and humility to go oh I now have to seek support where I used to lead the way and I and I don't have the answers to that and now you know um my kids may be the authority on a lot of these subjects you know even though we thought we were you know all through our egoic youthful times but the um that sort of transition and so for him that was really you know I looked at that making the documentary as a I thought I was very thankful for watching him and a lot of the crew said this wow as the days went on he really sort of took charge and felt like he was in the privacy again.

And I think that's really important for for people to remember is to still give them some agency and still as much as there is a lack of control, but I don't know allowing them to embody some authority and narrative on their life as opposed to like now you just have to sit in this space and and um have your hand out and Yeah. Yeah. You think you're helping but actually you're hurting. Yeah. It's it's like you and I try and you know I ask my dad questions I know the answers to but just that I know he he'll he'll he'll feel like he has um hopefully he doesn't hear this cuz he'll forget it anyway.

Um but you know I'll ask him things just to sort of stimulate some again agency and and authority in his his thinking. But yeah I mean it must have been pretty amazing to see him ride a motorcycle like that. Yeah, that's pretty impressive. Like when I saw that I was like, "Wow, that's that must feel great for him to get because he used to be a, you know, it it just to me that that also must feel like some agency for him to still be so active in that way because Yeah.

And that's the thing I think I'm most scared for for him and I think probably he is is there will come a time when he won't be able to do those things. And at the moment, you know, I mean, you saw races in historic races with old Harleyies and different bikes and things and, you know, will blitz the pack and young BS will rock up on their bikes and he's used to go and they'll go, "Whoa, who is this guy?" And he ends up on the podium a lot of the times in these races.

He he's an incredible rider still. Um but I don't know at what point that will occur, but that that for me I brings me great concern, you know, as it does for him as well because it will be the I think the most obvious representation of um the lack of agency and and that that you're taking a real backseat to things, you know. Yeah. Well, no, hearing you talk about it is just genuinely so as as hard as it is for you and obviously for your family and even just hearing you say how hard it was to make a documentary about something so personal.

I definitely think that even hearing you talk about it today, I'm like, this is helping people because I feel like there's so many many many it's not talked about enough and there are so many families that go through it and like you said, it's it's so easy to pretend like it's not happening or try and just tell that person what actually happened because that's what our logical brain does. And what what did you learn about your dad through this experience only that you wish you'd learned sooner or understood [snorts] earlier?

Yeah, my my dad had um this certainly has always been my hero. You know, he's represented such nobility and integrity and compassion and and strength and um a great uh deep profound sense of justice and injustice and right and wrong and and has been very present and vocal about situations like that. you know, he worked in in child protection and taking care of the most vulnerable of us and being children, you know, and um and he big shoes to fill, you know, and and but I think what what I didn't realize watching this documentary was that he had all the same fears and concerns that that I had or I have and um and he isn't um unshakable and unmovable and he's human and and and watching him be vulnerable and express concern and and fear about things made me love him on an on an even deeper level, you know?

It's like, like, like, oh wow, it the walls came down, you know, and I don't think he was presenting those walls out of avoidance, but there wasn't he wasn't as um not emotionally available, but but he wouldn't let you see that side of him as much. And now [snorts] there's this judgmentalist sort of open vulnerable side which um that I that I wasn't aware of as much as before you know and uh I think that I'm very thankful for that you know it's quite beautiful sort of watching his interviews which I wasn't present for present for present for but the master interviews that I watched after that oh my god I had no idea that those were the things he was considering but also the sense of humor he had with it and the the humility and the sort of self-depre ricating sort of nature that he he had even in discussing the most difficult of things, you know.

Yeah. It must be really special that you have all those tapes. Yeah, absolutely. I had um I think you said this at at the start of our chat, but he had a friend of mine say cuz I was really concerned about doing this and even through it and even after we'd finished, I was talking to the director. And I was like, "Oh, it's just a good thing if I, you know, I again, I don't want to feel like this is exploiting any of this." And and he said, "You know, I lost my father really suddenly and never had a chance to have these conversations." And the fact that you've been able to have this experience and force these conversations out of one another.

Um, another. Um, another. Um, what a gift. And then so many people who were at the screening, the premiere a few weeks ago said, "I wish I had done this or I am now am going to do this. I'm now going to reach out to my parents or that loved one or friend that I hadn't said these things to because um it was just a reminder of the fleeting nature and and of all of it, you know." Yeah. Well, that's that's what's amazing about it that it doesn't have to be all awesome.

It's like, you know, it's just about about about having time and space to reconnect and see your parents for who they are and who they didn't show you because they were protecting you and who they didn't want to or they weren't ready to and and it's hard because we all have everyone has different relationships with their parents and everything. But there's there's something beautiful about being able to just sit there and see them and them being them allowing you you you cuz even like making the documentary was like on one hand I sort of we you know we're out to sort of understand Alzheimer's or dementia and and and find the fix, find the silver bullet, you know, um look into reminiscence therapy, look into different medications, look into different modalities and approaches on how to handle it.

And then by the end of it, it was exactly that. It was like, "Oh, wow. This is about connection. This is universal to all of our experience. This isn't just about Alzheimer's. This is about supporting one another and being there for one another and being part of a family in a community and that interconnected nature of all of it as opposed to one lane with dementia, Alzheimer's, cognitive health. It it was about was about love and support and um and connection. And that for me was the biggest takeaway I think you know or as equally as sort of beneficial as the connection with my dad was about what it meant universally to all of my relationships.

relationships. relationships. What what did you learn about yourself that you weren't aware of or that you hadn't come across before? I felt just that I was doing something right. I think and I know it sounds kind of strange, but I I I had so much doubt and criticism and concern about it and then I was sitting at the premiere and my dad kept like holding my hand and just never done that, you know, and he was both emotional and laughing and and and I thought, "Oh, wow.

This is like out of all the things I've done and things I've put on screen and the things I've made, this feels profoundly profoundly profoundly important and and and deeply personal but special and unique to probably anything I'll ever do again. And um and I don't know it it it a little bit of what we were saying before, but I I I don't walk around thinking I've sort of um [snorts] I am the thing I guess I try and present of having figured it out and having this sort of um you know being entirely in control of things.

I have more doubt than you know or as much doubt as anyone or more doubt than anyone. I don't know but but I have a lot of inner criticism and so on and this I don't know I I felt a real lift in in that and I felt like there was plenty there there are plenty more opportunities or should be to [snorts] do things that have a deeper message and and and can resonate um [snorts] on a larger scale and they can mean something. It doesn't just have to be purely entertainment.

It doesn't just have to be. It can have a deeper message, you know. And um I don't know. I cut myself some slack, I guess. I felt a sense of sort of pride that I hadn't felt before. Yeah, I love hearing that. I'm glad you finally, you know, given yourself some And I'm not saying I'm kind of, you know, disapproving of everything I've done and, you know, walk but but I don't know. It resonated on a different level to me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um [clears throat] I think that's real.

I think it's real. I think I think that's they just feed different things, right? In in the same way as that you can make something purely entertaining purely entertaining purely entertaining that makes people have the best time and laugh and whatever it is, making something that personal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's there's nothing like it. Like I'm sure it was almost more gratifying watching your dad watch himself. Than it was ever seeing any of your movies because that's how we're designed. Like I feel like we're like we're we're wired for generosity as humans and we're wired for that connection.

So it's it's um you know when when you're seeing that person that you love watch themselves it's way better than seeing yourself on a screen. He was sitting next to me and I spent as much time looking to him to sit as I did at the screen and at the end of the the the film something he said to me my first ever film I spent a small part in Star Trek and he flew in for the premiere in LA with my mom and at the end of the film he grabbed me kissed me on the top of the head and he goes you were the best in your row and every single film I've done he's like you were the best in your row you know you were the best in your class type thing and it's this like his way of saying you know And then he would go on and give it a greater sort of summary of it all.

But then I lent over to him and I said, "You're the best in your row, you know." you know." you know." And uh he goes, "Yeah, not as bad as I thought it was going to be." And this again a wicked sense of humor about it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um Um Um no, he comes across I mean obviously I've never met your dad, but like he comes across like so lovable, so charming, so endearing, like just you know just a just a great dad. He definitely like, you know, he should know that human.

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. A good a good like good people, good good human. And there's that beautiful picture that almost the whole documentary is kind of centered around centered around centered around of [snorts] of [snorts] of [snorts] you know you and your dad. And I was wondering if you if you would go back to that younger self in that picture. What would you say to that younger self? [snorts] [snorts] [snorts] Um [sighs] Um [sighs] Um [sighs] I don't know. Oh, I'd be I'd be cautious to say anything because it it's all it's it's worked out pretty well, you know.

Um the slightly older version of that kid, I'd say it's going to be okay, you know, in those sort of worrisome nights that that I would kind of spin my wheels on one subject or another and be full of concern and anxiety and regret and guilt and those kind of strange um concoction of emotions. I don't know why, but uh I would like to appease and remove some of that if I could to my younger self by saying don't worry, just trust in the in the process and go with the flow a little more, you know?

But then again, as I said, I'm I wouldn't change anything. Soird. I wouldn't want to steal myself off the path. path. path. Yeah. It's like almost if you went back and did that, then you wouldn't be doing what you're doing today. I want the same outcome, but I want it to be less challenging. Isn't that all of us? That's so funny that that's literally it. It was like that's that would that is everyone's desire in life and it's almost like never the case. It's all even this even you making this documentary was it was uncomfortable was uncomfortable was uncomfortable and now you're sitting back reflecting going I'm really proud of it.

It made me feel good, you know, sitting with my dad like but it was an uncomfortable journey of of of do I make it? Do I not? Is it how's it going to look? And so it's such a the discomfort to joy arc is so real for all humans. And I didn't matter how many times you tell yourself the adversity is what builds the strength whether it's in the gym or whether it's one of emotional experiences. It's like you'll be better for this afterwards. Always yet each time like ah why why me?

Why again? Why is this happening? How can I avoid this? I'm going to, you know, and it's like it's a it's a I don't know whether you ever arrive at a place where you're you're you're just completely on board with the suffering, the challenges of the adversity, and you're like, but then if you did, then it wouldn't be suffering. So then you're not learning anything like anything like anything like then then you're not working out. Then you're not then you're not actually going through it. Oh, I'm okay with this.

Look at cuz it's not hurting enough. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Give me an extra 10 reps, you know? Oh, okay. There it It's it's like when you've been in the cold plunge for 7 minutes and now it's not. You've just normalized it doesn't matter anymore. Just in there for the ego boost. So now it's not doing anything. You need to do eight. It's like what do you think that younger self in that picture or even a bit older would say back to you. I think it'd be they'd be like, "We're going where?" You know, and have the I and I think that often about if my younger self knew what was in store or what was coming, they would be uh you know, we're going to play a superhero.

We're going to we're going to play dress ups and we travel the world and and and and be on this crazy crazy adventure with our friends. And friends. And friends. And I think uh I think they'd be grateful. I think they'd be excited. I think they'd uh they'd make sure I was enjoying it, you know, and not being caught up in the the next one or the uh the over calculation of it all, you know. Yeah. It's almost like that. It's almost like living life from that perspective is the only Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. worthy one. worthy one. worthy one. Mhm. [clears throat] Because from that lens, you look at it and you go, "Oh, I'm grateful. I'm happy. I'm joyful. I'm Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and there's some power in just looking back at your life from that younger self." younger self." younger self." For sure. Yeah. and they'd look up and go, go, go, "You're doing a good job." You know, it wouldn't have the criticism. Yeah. It's it's like who are you? You're trying to better the situation for that younger version of yourself or the dream you had then or this sort of the thing you um you know the the the sort of the prior imagining of it all you know and yet and I've thought about that before like the younger self would be wildly impressed by it you know so so should you.

Yeah. But But But but you know, you're like, "What am I?" Well, that's the funny part, right? That that that younger self that's still inside of us is the part of us that doesn't have the criticism and the judgment and the harsh words and just has like this childlike excitement and thrill and [clears throat] enthusiasm and it's still there inside all of us. It's just you don't you almost don't let it breathe because you kind of treat it as like not as smart or not as intelligent.

You know, we've we've we've I mean that's a and that is what I I I I chase all the time in a in a performance setting is like how would the what would my mindset be as a child in this in this situation? What would I how vivid would my imagination be? How you know let it run wild? And every now and then I get a hold of that or I find myself in that state and it's completely unencumbered with thought and the criticism and you're like flying.

here in the moment, you know. And um and I I had Downey, Robert Downey say this to me once in a scene where I sort of improvise something and something happened and he comes up and he goes, "How do you feel?" I said, "I felt cool. That was really cool." And he goes, "It happens like a couple of times in my career." He goes, "Grab a hold of it. Remember it." And I was like, "Yeah." But what it was was that un that the non-judgmental childlike version of myself, you know, and I think to take that into all aspects of life, not just when I was in front of a camera, has been really important and was has been a real lesson is to to um be more adventurous and inquisitive and curious and not so much outcomebased focused, you know, just be sort of momentto moment and allowing that sort of the cheekiness of children and the sort of the slight rebellious sort of you know um less concerned with the rules version of ourselves come out.

Yeah. But like you said you're like well but then it's uh you know that that's uh that's it's inconsistent with how the the adult version should behave and that's irresponsible and so on. It's like ah doesn't matter. I don't know anyone getting hurt. No. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We'll carry on. Yeah. I think there's a big difference between being childlike and childish. Yeah. That's Yeah. And and we don't often know the difference. And so we pressure down or suppress our childlike self. self. self. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Because we we're scared we might get childish. And it's the intelligent self sees the childish part and goes, "Oh, whatever." whatever." whatever." But but it's the childlike self that we know exists and has that power. There's this uh when I'm doing workshops, I have this thing called the 30 circles test. It's basically an A4 piece of paper with 30 circles on it. And I'll do this with executives across the world and big companies and all the rest of it. I'll say you've got 30 seconds to uniquely complete 30 circles.

That's the only instruction they get. They all have a pencil. So, everyone starts scribbling. There's a timer. Then the time starts going down and then I go 5 4 3 2 1 times up. Some of them keep scribbling like you know trying to get some more time in. And then they stop and I ask them what they've done. And the top five answers are always someone wrote the numbers 1 to 30 in every circle. [snorts] The second answer is people wrote A to Zed and then ABC D.

And then people do squiggles, people do emojis and little smiley faces, sad faces, footballs, pizzas, all that kind of stuff. And that's pretty much it. And these are like the smartest executives, CMOs, CEOs, whatever of all the big, you know, Fortune 500 companies and all the rest of it. And then I've done the same thing with kids and we're 10 year olds usually. And I learned this from the person who built the 30 circles test. And uh the kids just come up with these amazing things.

So this one boy, he put a line around it, put a little sign on top, and then put lines on the circles. And when I asked him what it was, he said it was a bag of tennis balls and because he plays tennis. And then there was this other girl who she did all this intricate line work, like straight lines on each piece and different things. And when I asked her what it was, she said it was a bird's eye view of a chessboard. And and because she she loves playing chess.

And then my favorite one, I always remember this one. There's this little girl who did intricate circles and curves and all this kind of stuff. And asked her what it was. She held the paper like this. She goes, "This bubble wrap." And it was just like this really like childlike, you know, and you never get an adult doing any of them. No. No. No. Because we just hear 30 circles, 30 seconds, seconds, seconds, get the job done. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you get you get these kids who just have this little bit of freedom still where they haven't got trained to Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. shut that out. We haven't um you know deeply embedded our neural pathways around ideas and and and uh expectations and you know the assumption around the right and the wrong. It's you know the the mind is is wide open at that point and yeah I think we all can do with a heavy dose of getting back to that that that that time of our life. Yeah. You you've been married for 15 years now right? Something like that. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. 15 years.

Uh and and you've got three wonderful children, you know, it's like And how old is the eldest now? Uh my daughter's 13, right? You're right. Yeah. Yeah. So she's 13. Yeah. What would you say your kids have taught you uh that you didn't anticipate they would? would? would? Um Um Um h h h I'd like to say they taught me patience. They're attempting to teach you patience, you know, because I don't know that I've figured it out. Yeah. I mean, you you talk about the ways you kind of, you know, can be in control and be in authority in spaces and and and have it all figured out and then you that door opens and it's just chaos and it's like I'm failing on at every single component of this.

The again the importance of of of time, you know, and and the things that I thought were going to bring great joy and the things that I was going to provide and give comfort, security, it's far simpler than that. It's attention, you know, they want your presence. They want your your space. They want your focus. And um and we over complicate it so often with attempts at sort of more extravagant experiences and things and yet they just want your time, you know, and that for me me me has been has been has been terrifying at times realizing how quick it's gone, you know, and I think I'll get to that and then a year goes by and I've done a couple of films or whatever and gone, "Oh, wow.

what which part of their um you know brief childhood have I have I missed and so the the the they've taught me a greater awareness around the importance of this moment because their personalities change every second and every day and every week and every month and and you kind of you're mourning a version of that child every month because they're gone. You know, you look at the sort of the the three-year-old and you think, "Oh, wow. this is it and can't wait till they're they're out of nappies and doing this and then all of a sudden they're four and five and they're out in nappers and you've put the stroller away and you're like oh god I wish I had that version back and then so you're constantly saying goodbye to little versions of these people and um so just pay attention just be here be present and they don't care about the the things the sort of larger achievements and you know an award or a big film or this and that and the other you know they do momentarily oh it's or whatever gone.

They just want you there. And uh and that's comforting, I find, you know, because there the pressure you put on yourself about those those, you know, more superficial sort of accomplishments and things um are important on one hand, but but not as important as just being there. Yeah. Yeah. What what's been the what's been the key to 15 years together? Um having fun, I think, you know, uh both having a sort of an adventurous spirit. um making time for one another. I think the the complicated times have been when it's been all work, all kids, and all of a sudden the us in the relationship is is what is sort of the non-existent.

you know, you're you're uh you're just kind of managing a household or the the the work family schedule and Elsa will be off from work and then I'll be off from work and then it's chaos atic kids and the kid kid time and [sighs] and so sort of um removing oursel from all of that and just having time for the two of us and making space for each other rather than the rest of the world that can be so um all consuming, you know. Yeah. That must be so hard though, right, with your schedule.

Yeah, it it is. It is. It's it's um I think it's as hard as sort of for anyone really you know it's it's all relative and relative and relative and you know we yeah it's challenging but we also have opportunity to make it work. We have no excuse as far as like how um how much time we can make for each other due to the support we can get and due to the situation. So, um, yeah, just just making each other laugh, you know, just kind of because there's so the there's so much over sort of focus on these kind of the importance and the intense sort of things and the big decisions.

And then it's the same with the kids. It's like the the stuff that really resonates and when you really get along and you really kind of feel like you're just here in this space this space this space is when there's there's humor involved, when there's adventure, when there's curiosity, when there's um openness to kind of make a fool of yourself and self-deprecation, all of that. It I think is that's what you can hold the head, you know, you know, there's always that spark and that attraction, but what it comes down to is is friendship, companionship at the end.

And um the moment you run out of things to talk about and you you lack that curiosity and interest in one another is you know that's when it's concerning. And that's a you know you got to you keep digging you know sort of again coming to some arrival or or insisting on a sort of finite conclusion to it is there's a finish line then you know and so understanding you don't entirely ever know each other and you'll continue to try and figure it out and and as you're trying to figure as you're trying to greater have a greater understanding of yourself as well in that experience I think is important to keep at the the front of your thinking you It allows you to forgive each other.

It allows you to be more compassionate with each other. Allows you to have greater understandings for both your shortcomings and and and the things we might um you know the the the lesser versions of ourselves that we may think of. Um of. Um of. Um yeah, I think it's that that you know has kept us in check. Yeah. I love the part of you saying when you still don't know each other like you're still getting to know like that's that's I think such a beautiful thing of like you're you still believe there's more to know about this person that you see every day and live with and you still believe no there's more to know I don't know them fully fully fully and that that keeps it fresh and new and exciting because there's an acceptance whereas as soon as you think oh I know them them them and I know their habits and I can kind of predict everything they do yeah And there is a part of that and that's a helpful thing like oh I know when they're tired and I know when they need space and I know when they're hungry or hangry or whatever it may be and that's helpful of course it is but then it's also the acceptance of I actually don't know them because they're changing and they're growing and I haven't seen the mother version or the mother of three or the mother you know there's there's all these iterations that we almost think well no people stay the same.

the same. the same. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it is and and it's having a sort of um allowance for that and a bit of compassion around, compassion around, compassion around, you know, do we ever even know ourselves entirely, you know, how how could we ever entirely know somebody else? And and but you have to keep reminding yourself to be curious and to sort of embody the humility to go, oh, I don't entirely understand or know that, but that's okay. I don't have to um I don't have to, you know, I don't have to entirely, you know, the sort of a pattern recognition and you have your expectations and so on, but having a little more openness to um [snorts] and and and curiosity, enthusiasm to understand what is it that makes you tick today versus tomorrow versus yesterday, you know, as opposed to thinking, I know all of your tricks and you know all of mine.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It takes away the sort of presumption I guess we have around each other which is you know you know you know is often cause for complication I think you know you know you know well I know why you did that I know why you're going to do this and it's just like then comes the eye roll and the contempt and then then you're down a dangerous dangerous dangerous passage you know if if Elsa was here sitting right next to you right now what what would she tell me about you that would surprise me?

me? me? Um, you don't know. Tell me. I don't know. We're gonna have to ask her. You have to ask her. We're gonna have to ask her. I've seen her have interviews. I'm like, why'd you tell him that? That's not true. Is that really [gasps] [gasps] [gasps] That's the best. Does she do that? Does she react to it? Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know, good ways. And then ways I'm like, that's not true when you um I don't know. Have you had to have you had the conversation with your kids about their granddad's Alzheimer's?

Like, have you Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How walk me through that part? Um, Um, Um, how do you explain it? What how does that conversation? that conversation? that conversation? Yeah, it's been really interesting because I um they're the they're the biggest kind of lessons are the most sort of profound sort of shifts in our sort of our growth, I think, as individuals is is is around confronting moments. And I I was it was very important for me to have them understand what was happening and articulate what this meant and also what it meant for me you know rather than I guess protect or you know um avoid that situation for them or that discomfort I was kind of it was very important and and so when I would talk to them about it initially they would be like okay what does that mean?

Yep. He's going to forget his memories. Okay. And then they'd go and see him and they go a daddy's fine. Yes. And and then they would come to me go, "Oh, he he he asked me this three times." And I said, "Well, this is what it is." And you know, you might have to look after me one day and this is what we do. Like this is family and this is the importance of, you know, this connection, the support we have for one another and having compassion for um vulnerable, challenging times.

And um and they've been great with it. You know, they have they have big hearts, my my kids. I'm so thankful for that, you know, and there is an um an abundance of sort of compassion there. and they're like, "Okay, cool. What do you need from us?" You know, "Yeah, okay, cool." And they'll rally and go around and, you know, they'll ask dad questions and things and talk about old memories and things I've talked about with them. And um um um yeah, and then they'll also be little maniacs, not care about any of it on other occasions, but for the most part, they've they've been really good.

And it my son, one of my boys actually at the screening was got really emotional and it really kind of I was really surprised and then he was like in the car on the way home like got really upset and he said I just I just love Craigie so much and and I said well he's still here you know make sure you tell him and and he said I am I want to go around there more and I want to you have more barbecues and ride motorbikes with him and and it was this great kind of I think sort of awakening for him you know it was real, but until he saw that the documentary, it wasn't as real.

And um and his brother, who isn't probably as articulate with his sort of emotions, was it was still affecting him, you know, and both were like he was sort of agreeing, yep, yep, let's to to come be with him more and let's, you know, let's make the most of this opportunity. So, yeah, that must have been amazing seeing their their reaction to it as well. Yeah, it was. It was. And it was I wasn't even focusing on it, you know, it was I was sort of right there with my dad and at the end of it they were there in the car on the way home talking and I thought, "Oh, wow." I was sort of focused on this moment but now this is the next generation you know coming and that sort of the the transference from one the other and the experience that my dad had had and passed to me and now I passed to my kids and yeah it's it's also the power of just media and storytelling in a way that if we could all personalize in a world where you're not a movie star and you're not making a documentary and it's almost Like I went to two friends 70th birthday parties this year.

M M M and I've not known them I've known them both separately. Two two different people and I've probably known them both for maybe the last 10 years if that. So I've not known them for like 60 years of their life. I've got to know them in the last 10. [snorts] And these birthday parties were filled with people they've known for, you know, nearly 70 years. And it was old friends and of course their kids and grandkids and families and you know that they weren't huge parties but they were they were big in that there were lots of very close people there teachers and you know um business partners and just just everyone and and it was so beautiful like it was it was such a special thing to attend as someone who's not 70 years old and go wow like what an incredible life these two people have lived how amazing it is to see them celebrate it and how and they're not movie stars and and how amazing it is for their families to have made media about them.

Yeah. So whether it's like a little homemade video of their highlight reel for 70 years or whether it's messages from over the years and I was just like the power and and it's like I've only known them for the last 10 years but I'm like weeping at these videos not and I haven't even been there for that long like compared to everyone else in the room but there's a power to that and how connected we feel when you see someone's story being told and and it makes you wonder how much more we can all do that for our families and the people we love even if it's not on a big you know you're not going to a premiere or anything like But how much of a celebrating people at milestones and kind of taking a moment to create storytelling around them so other people can appreciate them better too.

Yeah, it is it's it's I think the most important thing to to see one another and and to be seen and to recognize in other others the the the beauty and and what they have represented, what they have given you. We we don't often, you know, I mean, at the milestones, the parties and the birthdays and so on, we might, you know, offer that up, but I don't think we do it enough, you know, and and that it it's it's incredibly important because important because important because you, you know, without that recognition from someone else, we don't really know kind of our effect on the world.

We don't really, you know, we we can assume and and think this or that, but for the most part, it's a sort of imagined experience, you know, and the actuality of it, the reality of it when someone else taps you on the shoulder and says, "Hey, this is incredibly important what you've done, and this is incredibly memorable and had this in amazing, profound effect to me what you said this one time." We um we don't Yeah. We I don't think we're as comfortable saying it, but we don't sort of do it as often as we should.

Yeah. Yeah. And Yeah. It's a good It's this was definitely a good reminder of that. Yeah, that. Yeah, that. Yeah, for sure to see it and for everyone to recognize that you can do your own version of it. That's kind of what I was the whole time I was watching. I was just like, "Yeah, I wish I did that with my mentor and I wish we got the opportunity in a good way. Not in a not in a painful way, in a in an excitement for everyone else who and you know, doing it with my mom.

I remember a few years ago I interviewed my mom, not on the podcast, but just over dinner and it was my sister's 30th birthday. We'd gone away together. It was me, my mom, and my younger sister. And we just I just interviewed my mom over dinner. It was my one of my favorite things I've ever done. Oh wow. Oh wow. Oh wow. Because I learned so much about her. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That she'd never told me. She's 70 now or she was at that point. And it just it was so special just to ask her some questions that she would never tell me the story about or she wouldn't she never makes her life sound exciting or different or special.

And then you get into it and you go, "Oh my, your life is all of those things." Uh and yeah, just Yeah. What what a beautiful thing to give people the right vocabulary. I wonder with with everything you've been saying, what what's something that you want to get better as? As as a man, I want to slow down a bit. You know, I I I I I feel like feel like feel like that I have been sort of chasing something for so long and um achieving something and arriving at a point and then quickly replacing it with something else and else and else and it's afforded me an incredible life and and I've achieved some wonderful things and but it's I would love to take pause and take stock in kind of this moment more, you know, and know, and know, and and it's not to say I don't want to keep working and do doing achieving things, but I want to be less kind of um focused on the the outcome of it, you know, and just be there for the experience and be there for the the joy and the thrill and the adventure and and and have a greater curiosity around it without being consumed with the what if it goes wrong portion of things, you But it's a strange thing because as we've discussed a few times, you know, well, can you have one without the other?

other? other? Um, but I, you know, I in I have, this has made me slow down a lot, you know, with my dad recently and I'm looking at next year and I have films to do, but I'm turned down a lot of things just so I can be here with him more and because I know I'm not going to get 10 years down the track and go, I'm glad I did those extra three or four films. I'm going to say, I wish I spent more time with him.

and with my mom, you know, um, and with my brothers and my wife, my kids and family and friends and because [clears throat] it's it's uh, you know, you wake up and another 10 years has gone by and it's like it's been fun, but a lot of it has feels like a sort of a blurred Polaroid photograph, you I'm like, God, I kind of remember that, you know, and but it was sort of all consuming and so busy and such intensity and such high emotions and and and such sort of big risk, big reward, big payoffs, big big loss, you know, and and and and that's fun and there's a sort of um excitement to that, but I find find sometimes I there's just pure exhaustion as well and I just would like to kind of reset a bit and recharge and have a greater amount of sort of stillness and not want so much from a situation just kind of just be here.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, You know, You know, is that why coming back here was so important instead of being in LA as well? well? well? Yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. And it was right when I had kids. Um, we were in LA and we had a big beautiful house there and but it just didn't feel like home and it [clears throat] was chaotic and every time I'd leave the house I was reminded of work and reminded of what I was doing or what I wasn't doing and and um and it [clears throat] was you know documented by paparazzi and then plastered across sort of various news outlets and so on and and it didn't it wasn't fulfilling on a sort of a personal soul level you know it didn't feel nourishing at all and we came back here just for just for a holiday, but you know, sort of um a subtle attempt from me to sort of, you know, convince my wife to move here.

And uh it was it wasn't it wasn't a hard uh you know moment? No, it wasn't a hard cell at all. She was instantly like, "Ah, this will do. This is pretty special." Yeah. Is your is your dad's transition most hardest on your mom? Do you do you see that? see that? see that? For sure. [snorts] Yeah. That's the one that I has become really complicated. Um because it's sort of well what's scary is she has the same two copies the hypo4 um I think there's a higher prob probability of women getting it as opposed to men so she's in a even higher risk category um and the stress and the um the concern that she carries is is is incredibly dangerous you know um and detrimental to her health.

And so my brothers and I, you know, big attempt to sort of offload that as much as we can. Um can. Um can. Um and also watching, you know, you don't want to be in in a sort of romantic loving relationship and then one have to be a carer, one have to be a patient. you know, it's such a tragedy. And I think at times um that's where that's where the roles have been assigned and there's good days and bad days. But I think not being able to do the things that they used to do and not having the same connection and the same conversations that they used to have and and that um there's a beautiful connection and love there, but there isn't the same depth to some of the conversations and the interactions they have now.

there isn't the same um support and and you know obviously no one's fault. It just there's sort of an inability or an incapacity to to be there and provide that now because the the memory isn't as you know strong as it was and it's and it's the short term things are um rapidly sort of declining. So, [sighs and gasps] um, um, um, yeah, we're sort of trying to implement a lot of things currently for her health and for his, but also trying to allow there to be some autonomy in my mom's life as well and and a bit of agency in her space so she doesn't have to feel like she is, you know, the carer.

Yeah. It's such a strange one, isn't it? It's like you're caring for the person who's actually unwell. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And caring for the person who's caring for the person who's unwell. Yeah. Who's often gets forgotten sometimes. Peter said it to me um when my dad was first diagnosed. He said, "How's your mom?" I said, "Oh, yeah. She's she's fine." Yeah. He goes, "She's the one I'd be concerned about, you know, because your dad, you know, we can slow the regression of Alzheimer's sometimes. Um we're yet to sort of reverse it, you know, but once it starts, that's the path you're on." He said, "Your mom isn't there yet.

Isn't isn't you know, it doesn't have sort of cognitive decline." But he goes, "But this is the environment where it will it will promote or that is is is the stress and the sleepless nights, the increase in cortisol, um, and that anxiety and concern." He said, "All of those are like that's the environment for her to now sort of be forced down that path." So he said, "We got to pay attention there." And that that was a a beautiful reminder from him. And he said it a number of times.

I'm in contact with him a lot and says, "How's your mom doing? How's your mom doing?" Um, yeah, she's definitely a big focus. Yeah, love that. Chris, it's been such a joy talking to you. Thank you. You, too. Uh, truly just just it's it's beautiful feeling let into someone's life and heart in this way because it it just, you know, puts so much into perspective for all of us to hear you kind of be so vulnerable and so open. It can't be easy. And of course, seeing the documentary, you just see how much you're letting everyone in.

And we end every episode with a final five. These questions have to be answered in one sentence maximum. Often we go off pie because I get enthusiastic and excited. Uh but Chris Hemsworth, these are your final five. Uh we ask these to everyone on the show or at least a few of these. Uh so question number one, Chris, what's the best advice you've ever received? [snorts] [snorts] [snorts] Best advice I've received, um um um I remember being asked this when I was doing home and away this soap opera many years ago.

And my answer was, "Be kind." And I remember the journalist at the time mocking me and saying, "Oh, it's like something you read on a teddy bear or whatever." But that advice that was given to me by my mom is just be kind to people. Be compassionate. Has stayed true and been my northstar through everything I've ever done. And and in its simplicity is some there's some profound wisdom to it. You know, be kind to yourself, be kind to others. That's about as you know if we embody just that one thing I think we'll we'll do okay.

do okay. do okay. Yeah. I love that. Uh second question. What is the worst advice you ever heard or received? or received? or received? I don't know. You ask me what I was afraid of and what makes me nervous. This This This I love that. What were all those tricks I was trying to to to This is a good anxiety Chris. Yeah, exactly. This is good. The worst advice I've had on many occasions, just one more drink, one more beer. It doesn't work out. Doesn't work out.

It's always the worst idea. The one more that was always the problem, you know. It It leads to overweight Thor. It leads to confused Thor. Forgetful Thor, catastrophic Thor. catastrophic Thor. catastrophic Thor. I love it. Uh, question number three. What do you believe makes a good dad? [snorts] um um someone who truly embodies the things they're trying to to to bestow upon you. You know, someone who truly um represents those virtues that they're trying to teach you rather than you talking about it. Their their behavior represents that.

And um and that's been has been my dad, you know, his his actions spoke a lot louder than his words. and he didn't necessarily speak in sort of poetic oneliners that were, you know, memorable. It was his the way he walked into a room and the way he treated people, the way he behaved and held himself and took care of people and was compassionate that um and and he was true to his word and honest and still is and and holds a beautiful amount of integrity and love and um yeah, someone who who models their behavior honestly.

behavior honestly. behavior honestly. Question number four, what do you believe makes a good son? Being in not just a state of receiverhip but also giving back, you know, and and I remember when my dad's father passed away. I was in LA and he called me and and and I said, "Oh, sorry about your dad." And I remember him getting choked up and on the other end of the call kind of thinking, "Oh, wow. He's crying." And I hadn't really seen him cry I don't think ever [sighs] and very I was sort of listening and okay how are you all right and then he started talking again and we changed the subject and we went and ever and then afterwards like maybe a year later I thought god I wasn't there for him and then as time went on realizing how important it was for me also to show give recognition and how important he was rather than just him taking care of me realizing I had a part to to to And so And so And so what makes it a good son is also the recognition that you have a position and a place to hold in this relationship.

And it isn't just to be taken care of is also to to share that responsibility and take care of one another. It's a convoluted answer, no no no it's beautiful. It's beautiful. I feel like we're living at a time where roles are so hard to understand and undefined and it's so beautiful to just have like a north star of like as simple as it is to have like Yeah. your dad's a good dad's someone who's true to his words and lives by example. That's a a beautiful simple thing that we can all try to aspire to live towards as opposed to you know complex ideas.

I I remember have a friend of mine's dad who um who was very well read and you know would quote various philosophy and and and and and psychologists and things and it was like oh wow that's a really interesting this that's a great thing and I would take it but he didn't embody any of it you know as the years went on I was like ah that's it's all talk you know it's it's not action and um Just to sort of reiterate sort of what I was saying before, it it's it you know, it's one thing to sort of be able to spout off wisdom and and quotes and so on, but it's like, do you truly when push comes to shove, is that who what you're representing or not?

And yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm I'm trying to avoid the next question. question. question. We're on question Oh, we did question four. We're on question five. This is it. This is the one that I told you about right at the top of the show that you've been thinking about the whole time. Uh, so Chris, the fifth question that we ask to every guest who's ever been on the show, and by the way, everyone knows these questions and no one ever prepares for it, so don't worry. Uh, fifth and final question.

If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? to have a uh a 3-day work week or 4 day maybe to work less, you know, and um I think we would have I [snorts] would think we would work harder and more efficiently when we do and our entire life wouldn't be around [sighs] productivity and work work work. It would be about hopefully more enjoyable experiences, you know. Yeah. I mean, and the weekends are the weekends are beautiful and and and and needed and wanted and and and waited for with such anticipation because we've worked.

Yes. But I think a day or two less would be universally beneficial. I have no idea how humans signed up to a 5day work week. Like, can you imagine when that got instated how everyone just goes, "Yeah, we're going to I I don't know how we did it." No. Like, I I don't know how we ever agreed to going, "Yeah, we're all going to work 5 days a week." No. And in some cases six in some places across the world like six, seven days people are working and maybe church on Sunday Sunday Sunday mental fatigue and the physical fatigue and and now with phones and all the other ways we're sort of you know now it's 24 hours right there is no switching off now.

It's brutal. Yeah. brutal. Yeah. brutal. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good law. I hope you get rid of phones. Maybe one day when you're when you're prime minister or you know some instate four day work with three start with Australia then you can figure out you know how it goes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let us know. Test it. Yeah. Chris, it's been such a joy, honor to talk to you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Really wonderful getting to know you on such a deep level. Thank you for being so open, vulnerable, and uh so grateful that you're sharing you and your dad's journey and your family's journey with us.

us. us. I appreciate your time, mate. Thank you very much. very much. very much. F to watch it. Yeah, it was definitely worth coming 24 hours like this. Thank you. you. you. It was amazing. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Awesome, man. Thank you so much. Such a pleasure. If you love this episode, I need you to listen to one of my favorite conversations ever. It's with the one and only Tom Holland on how to overcome your social anxiety, especially in situations where you're not drinking and everyone else is.

We talk about his sobriety journey and so much more. He gets really personal. I can't wait for you to hear it. It's going to blow your mind. The quote is, "If you have a problem with me, text me. And if you don't have my number, you don't know me well enough to have a problem with