Are Kids Today Really Worse Off? The Data Says Something Different | The Happiness Lab Podcast

If you're a fan of my work or of this If you're a fan of my work or of this podcast, you've probably heard the story podcast, you've probably heard the story podcast, you've probably heard the story of how I got interested in happiness of how I got interested in happiness of how I got interested in happiness research in the first place. If not, research in the first place. If not, research in the first place. If not, here's a very quick version. Back in here's a very quick version. Back in here's a very quick version. Back in 2018, I was an Ivy League psychology 2018, I was an Ivy League psychology 2018, I was an Ivy League psychology professor, minding my own business when professor, minding my own business when professor, minding my own business when I started noticing that something was I started noticing that something was I started noticing that something was changing on college campuses. The changing on college campuses. The changing on college campuses. The students I saw in my classes day after students I saw in my classes day after students I saw in my classes day after day, year after year, over time, they day, year after year, over time, they day, year after year, over time, they seemed different. They were more seemed different. They were more seemed different. They were more stressed, less joyful, more overwhelmed, stressed, less joyful, more overwhelmed, stressed, less joyful, more overwhelmed, less happy, more depressed, way less less happy, more depressed, way less less happy, more depressed, way less resilient, and way more anxious. I got resilient, and way more anxious. I got resilient, and way more anxious. I got so worried about this generation of so worried about this generation of so worried about this generation of college students that I decided to drop college students that I decided to drop college students that I decided to drop everything and fully retrain in the everything and fully retrain in the everything and fully retrain in the science of happiness just so I could science of happiness just so I could science of happiness just so I could help them. As I worked with students help them. As I worked with students help them. As I worked with students more closely, I found myself thinking, more closely, I found myself thinking, more closely, I found myself thinking, "Man, the kids today, what's up with "Man, the kids today, what's up with "Man, the kids today, what's up with them? Why are they so different than the them? Why are they so different than the them? Why are they so different than the generations that came before them? Why generations that came before them? Why generations that came before them? Why are young people today so messed up?" As are young people today so messed up?" As are young people today so messed up?" As I became more of an expert on the I became more of an expert on the I became more of an expert on the science of happiness, I got asked a lot science of happiness, I got asked a lot science of happiness, I got asked a lot of these very same questions. I gave of these very same questions. I gave of these very same questions. I gave interview after interview emphatically interview after interview emphatically interview after interview emphatically claiming that the kids today were claiming that the kids today were claiming that the kids today were different, that they were doing worse different, that they were doing worse different, that they were doing worse than any generation before them. Turns than any generation before them. Turns than any generation before them. Turns out that this is a crisis nationally for out that this is a crisis nationally for out that this is a crisis nationally for our young people right now. Over 50% of our young people right now. Over 50% of our young people right now. Over 50% of college students say they feel hopeless college students say they feel hopeless college students say they feel hopeless most of the time. Over 60% of college most of the time. Over 60% of college most of the time. Over 60% of college students report feeling overwhelming students report feeling overwhelming students report feeling overwhelming anxiety most days. anxiety most days. anxiety most days. >> I used strong phrases like the mental >> I used strong phrases like the mental >> I used strong phrases like the mental health crisis. I saw the college student health crisis. I saw the college student health crisis. I saw the college student mental health crisis. College student mental health crisis. College student mental health crisis. College student mental health crisis. This is the mental mental health crisis. This is the mental mental health crisis. This is the mental health crisis that our students and our health crisis that our students and our health crisis that our students and our young people are facing nationally. young people are facing nationally. young people are facing nationally. >> I shared study after study showing just >> I shared study after study showing just >> I shared study after study showing just how much young people's well-being had how much young people's well-being had how much young people's well-being had worsened over time. worsened over time. worsened over time. >> Academic stress is one of the highest >> Academic stress is one of the highest >> Academic stress is one of the highest we've seen kind of historically since we've seen kind of historically since we've seen kind of historically since we've been measuring this. we've been measuring this. we've been measuring this. >> And I wasn't alone. Even now, it feels >> And I wasn't alone. Even now, it feels >> And I wasn't alone. Even now, it feels like nearly every article you see about like nearly every article you see about like nearly every article you see about the kids today involves some scholar the kids today involves some scholar the kids today involves some scholar talking about how messed up they are. talking about how messed up they are. talking about how messed up they are. Some of those scholars even get pretty Some of those scholars even get pretty Some of those scholars even get pretty judgy, arguing not just that the kids judgy, arguing not just that the kids judgy, arguing not just that the kids today are struggling, but that they're today are struggling, but that they're today are struggling, but that they're coddled or lazy. I tell you all of this coddled or lazy. I tell you all of this coddled or lazy. I tell you all of this to set up just how hot of a hottake to set up just how hot of a hottake to set up just how hot of a hottake today's happiness hottake is going to today's happiness hottake is going to today's happiness hottake is going to be. Because today's happiness hottake is be. Because today's happiness hottake is be. Because today's happiness hottake is this. I'm starting to think that the this. I'm starting to think that the this. I'm starting to think that the kids today are all right. Or at least as kids today are all right. Or at least as kids today are all right. Or at least as all right as the kids in any generation all right as the kids in any generation all right as the kids in any generation have ever been. Now you may be thinking, have ever been. Now you may be thinking, have ever been. Now you may be thinking, "Wait, Li, after all those interviews, "Wait, Li, after all those interviews, "Wait, Li, after all those interviews, do you really think you had the youth do you really think you had the youth do you really think you had the youth mental health crisis wrong?" Well, get mental health crisis wrong?" Well, get mental health crisis wrong?" Well, get ready to find out because we're going to ready to find out because we're going to ready to find out because we're going to go on a bit of an adventure. A deep dive go on a bit of an adventure. A deep dive go on a bit of an adventure. A deep dive into what our minds get wrong when it into what our minds get wrong when it into what our minds get wrong when it comes to judging the kids today and what comes to judging the kids today and what comes to judging the kids today and what we can do to give them a bit more we can do to give them a bit more we can do to give them a bit more compassion. Our minds are constantly telling us what Our minds are constantly telling us what to do to be happy. But what if our minds to do to be happy. But what if our minds to do to be happy. But what if our minds are wrong? What if our minds are lying are wrong? What if our minds are lying are wrong? What if our minds are lying to us, leading us away from what will to us, leading us away from what will to us, leading us away from what will really make us happy? The good news is really make us happy? The good news is really make us happy? The good news is that understanding the science of the that understanding the science of the that understanding the science of the mind can point us all back in the right mind can point us all back in the right mind can point us all back in the right direction. You're listening to the direction. You're listening to the direction. You're listening to the happiness lab with me, Dr. Lari Santos. As a young kid growing up in the 1980s, As a young kid growing up in the 1980s, college student mental health expert college student mental health expert college student mental health expert Alexis Reading had a very special Alexis Reading had a very special Alexis Reading had a very special connection with the action movie hero connection with the action movie hero connection with the action movie hero Indiana Jones. Indiana Jones. Indiana Jones. >> My childhood dog was named Indiana >> My childhood dog was named Indiana >> My childhood dog was named Indiana Jones. The reason why my childhood dog Jones. The reason why my childhood dog Jones. The reason why my childhood dog was named Indiana Jones is that my was named Indiana Jones is that my was named Indiana Jones is that my father was an archaeologist. Having an father was an archaeologist. Having an father was an archaeologist. Having an archaeologist dad during the Indiana archaeologist dad during the Indiana archaeologist dad during the Indiana Jones era would come to define a lot of Jones era would come to define a lot of Jones era would come to define a lot of Alexis's childhood. Every afternoon Alexis's childhood. Every afternoon Alexis's childhood. Every afternoon after school, Alexis would head to the after school, Alexis would head to the after school, Alexis would head to the museum where her father worked. She'd museum where her father worked. She'd museum where her father worked. She'd find ways to entertain herself as her find ways to entertain herself as her find ways to entertain herself as her dad spent hours methodically trying to dad spent hours methodically trying to dad spent hours methodically trying to figure out stories of the past that were figure out stories of the past that were figure out stories of the past that were hidden in small bits of bone and hidden in small bits of bone and hidden in small bits of bone and pottery. But Alexis's real introduction pottery. But Alexis's real introduction pottery. But Alexis's real introduction to archaeology came when she turned 8 to archaeology came when she turned 8 to archaeology came when she turned 8 years old and got a chance to travel to years old and got a chance to travel to years old and got a chance to travel to her father's field site at the Great her father's field site at the Great her father's field site at the Great Pyramid of Giza. Pyramid of Giza. Pyramid of Giza. He and his team spent several decades He and his team spent several decades He and his team spent several decades actually running the Giza plateau actually running the Giza plateau actually running the Giza plateau mapping project which was unearthing the mapping project which was unearthing the mapping project which was unearthing the workers village of the human beings who workers village of the human beings who workers village of the human beings who raised the pyramids and telling the raised the pyramids and telling the raised the pyramids and telling the stories of their lives. Up until that stories of their lives. Up until that stories of their lives. Up until that point what my father did was a little point what my father did was a little point what my father did was a little bit vague. I didn't understand what it bit vague. I didn't understand what it bit vague. I didn't understand what it meant to be in the field. I hadn't seen meant to be in the field. I hadn't seen meant to be in the field. I hadn't seen that up close and it was eyeopening to that up close and it was eyeopening to that up close and it was eyeopening to see how meticulous the work was. you see how meticulous the work was. you see how meticulous the work was. you know, literally using paint brushes and know, literally using paint brushes and know, literally using paint brushes and toothbrushes to move bits of sand away. toothbrushes to move bits of sand away. toothbrushes to move bits of sand away. And the amount of enthusiasm he had over And the amount of enthusiasm he had over And the amount of enthusiasm he had over finding a trash dump because that was finding a trash dump because that was finding a trash dump because that was such a treasure trove of information such a treasure trove of information such a treasure trove of information when you're an archaeologist of the when you're an archaeologist of the when you're an archaeologist of the layer after layer of human life and and layer after layer of human life and and layer after layer of human life and and what is left behind. what is left behind. what is left behind. >> The fictional character Indiana Jones >> The fictional character Indiana Jones >> The fictional character Indiana Jones famously fell in love with archaeology famously fell in love with archaeology famously fell in love with archaeology when he first visited his father's when he first visited his father's when he first visited his father's Egyptian field site. Did that visit to Egyptian field site. Did that visit to Egyptian field site. Did that visit to Giza set Alexis onto a similar path? Giza set Alexis onto a similar path? Giza set Alexis onto a similar path? >> It was fascinating and entirely not for >> It was fascinating and entirely not for >> It was fascinating and entirely not for me. me. me. >> Archaeology involved dealing with a lot >> Archaeology involved dealing with a lot >> Archaeology involved dealing with a lot of dust, and Alexis was not a fan of of dust, and Alexis was not a fan of of dust, and Alexis was not a fan of dust. But she did inherit her father's dust. But she did inherit her father's dust. But she did inherit her father's passion for figuring out hard academic passion for figuring out hard academic passion for figuring out hard academic puzzles. And the hard academic puzzle puzzles. And the hard academic puzzle puzzles. And the hard academic puzzle Alexis took on is the subject of today's Alexis took on is the subject of today's Alexis took on is the subject of today's happiness hottake, the mental health of happiness hottake, the mental health of happiness hottake, the mental health of kids these days. I study the experience kids these days. I study the experience kids these days. I study the experience of young adults navigating transitions, of young adults navigating transitions, of young adults navigating transitions, the transition from high school into the transition from high school into the transition from high school into college, from college into the college, from college into the college, from college into the workforce, and I specialize in mental workforce, and I specialize in mental workforce, and I specialize in mental health and well-being during those health and well-being during those health and well-being during those processes. Alexis is the faculty processes. Alexis is the faculty processes. Alexis is the faculty co-chair of higher education at the co-chair of higher education at the co-chair of higher education at the Harvard Graduate School of Education and Harvard Graduate School of Education and Harvard Graduate School of Education and the editor of a new book entitled Mental the editor of a new book entitled Mental the editor of a new book entitled Mental Health and College: What Research Tells Health and College: What Research Tells Health and College: What Research Tells Us about Supporting Students. Us about Supporting Students. Us about Supporting Students. Alexis is therefore very well-versed in Alexis is therefore very well-versed in Alexis is therefore very well-versed in the way that adults typically talk about the way that adults typically talk about the way that adults typically talk about the kids today. There is a narrative the kids today. There is a narrative the kids today. There is a narrative that somehow this generation is so that somehow this generation is so that somehow this generation is so decidedly different than the generation decidedly different than the generation decidedly different than the generation that came before. Alexis bought into that came before. Alexis bought into that came before. Alexis bought into this narrative herself when she was this narrative herself when she was this narrative herself when she was beginning her doctoral studies. She knew beginning her doctoral studies. She knew beginning her doctoral studies. She knew about all the data showing that rates of about all the data showing that rates of about all the data showing that rates of depression and anxiety were on the rise depression and anxiety were on the rise depression and anxiety were on the rise in modern students. She too wondered in modern students. She too wondered in modern students. She too wondered what was wrong with them. But Alexis's what was wrong with them. But Alexis's what was wrong with them. But Alexis's take on the kids today changed back in take on the kids today changed back in take on the kids today changed back in 2016 when she got an unexpected call 2016 when she got an unexpected call 2016 when she got an unexpected call from a Harvard administrator offering from a Harvard administrator offering from a Harvard administrator offering $3,000 for a somewhat unorthodox summer $3,000 for a somewhat unorthodox summer $3,000 for a somewhat unorthodox summer research project. as a doc student. research project. as a doc student. research project. as a doc student. Somebody offers you $3,000 Somebody offers you $3,000 Somebody offers you $3,000 to do any sort of intellectually to do any sort of intellectually to do any sort of intellectually engaging work. You say yes. What was engaging work. You say yes. What was engaging work. You say yes. What was this unusual project? Well, that Harvard this unusual project? Well, that Harvard this unusual project? Well, that Harvard administrator and her team had been administrator and her team had been administrator and her team had been cleaning out the attic of the cleaning out the attic of the cleaning out the attic of the university's Bureau of Study Council university's Bureau of Study Council university's Bureau of Study Council building when they stumbled onto building when they stumbled onto building when they stumbled onto something unexpected. something unexpected. something unexpected. They had found this recessed bookshelf They had found this recessed bookshelf They had found this recessed bookshelf that they had forgotten was there. It that they had forgotten was there. It that they had forgotten was there. It was behind an old dusty tapestry and it was behind an old dusty tapestry and it was behind an old dusty tapestry and it was behind these locked glass doors. On was behind these locked glass doors. On was behind these locked glass doors. On that hidden bookshelf were boxes and that hidden bookshelf were boxes and that hidden bookshelf were boxes and boxes of old research materials. And boxes of old research materials. And boxes of old research materials. And what she told me is that they had these what she told me is that they had these what she told me is that they had these old conversations with students, old conversations with students, old conversations with students, recordings of student interviews with recordings of student interviews with recordings of student interviews with young people who were navigating the young people who were navigating the young people who were navigating the college years. And they didn't know what college years. And they didn't know what college years. And they didn't know what to do with them, but they felt like to do with them, but they felt like to do with them, but they felt like there was something interesting there. there was something interesting there. there was something interesting there. Alexis also thought there might be Alexis also thought there might be Alexis also thought there might be something of interest there. One of the something of interest there. One of the something of interest there. One of the most foundational studies in Alexis's most foundational studies in Alexis's most foundational studies in Alexis's field of college student development was field of college student development was field of college student development was published back in 1968 by famed Harvard published back in 1968 by famed Harvard published back in 1968 by famed Harvard psychologist Dr. William Perry. The psychologist Dr. William Perry. The psychologist Dr. William Perry. The project involved extensive interviews project involved extensive interviews project involved extensive interviews with university students from the 1950s. with university students from the 1950s. with university students from the 1950s. That sounded suspiciously similar to That sounded suspiciously similar to That sounded suspiciously similar to what the Harvard administrator had what the Harvard administrator had what the Harvard administrator had stumbled across. Could the conversations stumbled across. Could the conversations stumbled across. Could the conversations in those old boxes be Perry's original in those old boxes be Perry's original in those old boxes be Perry's original interviews from his foundational paper? interviews from his foundational paper? interviews from his foundational paper? Could they offer a glimpse into what Could they offer a glimpse into what Could they offer a glimpse into what college student mental health was like college student mental health was like college student mental health was like back in the day? And by comparison, how back in the day? And by comparison, how back in the day? And by comparison, how bad things had gotten today. bad things had gotten today. bad things had gotten today. >> You know, being the daughter of an >> You know, being the daughter of an >> You know, being the daughter of an archaeologist means that you are primed archaeologist means that you are primed archaeologist means that you are primed to go on a grand adventure of discovery. to go on a grand adventure of discovery. to go on a grand adventure of discovery. And that seems like a typical thing to And that seems like a typical thing to And that seems like a typical thing to do. Alexis's first visit to that attic do. Alexis's first visit to that attic do. Alexis's first visit to that attic archive did indeed feel like a grand archive did indeed feel like a grand archive did indeed feel like a grand adventure. When she pulled back the adventure. When she pulled back the adventure. When she pulled back the tapestry, she found piles and piles and tapestry, she found piles and piles and tapestry, she found piles and piles and piles of old research materials. But it piles of old research materials. But it piles of old research materials. But it was a mess. It was like you ask a kid to was a mess. It was like you ask a kid to was a mess. It was like you ask a kid to clean their room and everything goes clean their room and everything goes clean their room and everything goes into the closet. Like that had happened into the closet. Like that had happened into the closet. Like that had happened over maybe 20 years. The attic space over maybe 20 years. The attic space over maybe 20 years. The attic space also featured the very thing Alexis most also featured the very thing Alexis most also featured the very thing Alexis most detested when visiting her dad's field detested when visiting her dad's field detested when visiting her dad's field site. site. site. >> It was dust filled. I spent part of my >> It was dust filled. I spent part of my >> It was dust filled. I spent part of my three grand on, you know, Claritin and three grand on, you know, Claritin and three grand on, you know, Claritin and an air purifier so that I could spend an air purifier so that I could spend an air purifier so that I could spend time up there. Dust? Why did it have to time up there. Dust? Why did it have to time up there. Dust? Why did it have to be dust? But pack of claritin in hand, be dust? But pack of claritin in hand, be dust? But pack of claritin in hand, Alexis got to work trying to make sense Alexis got to work trying to make sense Alexis got to work trying to make sense of the mess. She began organizing all of the mess. She began organizing all of the mess. She began organizing all the random papers in those boxes. She the random papers in those boxes. She the random papers in those boxes. She discovered card catalogs of old discovered card catalogs of old discovered card catalogs of old interviews, outdated training materials, interviews, outdated training materials, interviews, outdated training materials, and then one day, Alexis stumbled upon a and then one day, Alexis stumbled upon a and then one day, Alexis stumbled upon a sheet of paper that didn't match the sheet of paper that didn't match the sheet of paper that didn't match the others. Everything about it looked and others. Everything about it looked and others. Everything about it looked and felt different. Like the paper felt felt different. Like the paper felt felt different. Like the paper felt different. It had purple mimograph ink. different. It had purple mimograph ink. different. It had purple mimograph ink. The font was like a little thicker from The font was like a little thicker from The font was like a little thicker from an old school typewriter. The purple an old school typewriter. The purple an old school typewriter. The purple inked page appeared to be a transcript inked page appeared to be a transcript inked page appeared to be a transcript of a student being interviewed about his of a student being interviewed about his of a student being interviewed about his mental health struggles. Could this be a mental health struggles. Could this be a mental health struggles. Could this be a conversation from Perry's foundational conversation from Perry's foundational conversation from Perry's foundational 1950s study? The only way to find out 1950s study? The only way to find out 1950s study? The only way to find out was to locate the rest of those pages. was to locate the rest of those pages. was to locate the rest of those pages. As weeks and weeks of searching past, As weeks and weeks of searching past, As weeks and weeks of searching past, slowly but surely, more of those strange slowly but surely, more of those strange slowly but surely, more of those strange purple pages turned up. And then I found purple pages turned up. And then I found purple pages turned up. And then I found page 18 right in the middle of the page page 18 right in the middle of the page page 18 right in the middle of the page said, "President Nixon and the Vietnam said, "President Nixon and the Vietnam said, "President Nixon and the Vietnam War." This was supposed to be from the ' War." This was supposed to be from the ' War." This was supposed to be from the ' 50s and60s. My history's bad, but that's 50s and60s. My history's bad, but that's 50s and60s. My history's bad, but that's later, right? That's later. later, right? That's later. later, right? That's later. >> I had this moment in the attic of like, >> I had this moment in the attic of like, >> I had this moment in the attic of like, I'm not a presidential historian, but I I'm not a presidential historian, but I I'm not a presidential historian, but I feel like that's off. Tricky Dick was feel like that's off. Tricky Dick was feel like that's off. Tricky Dick was president from 1969 until 1974. president from 1969 until 1974. president from 1969 until 1974. That was more than a decade after Perry That was more than a decade after Perry That was more than a decade after Perry had concluded his foundational study, had concluded his foundational study, had concluded his foundational study, which means that I didn't have something which means that I didn't have something which means that I didn't have something from the original study. I had something from the original study. I had something from the original study. I had something from a replicated study from the 1970s. from a replicated study from the 1970s. from a replicated study from the 1970s. Now, this is my field. I know the Now, this is my field. I know the Now, this is my field. I know the literature. I know that this study was literature. I know that this study was literature. I know that this study was never published. Had Perry conducted a never published. Had Perry conducted a never published. Had Perry conducted a second study with a new group of second study with a new group of second study with a new group of students from the 1970s, one that he had students from the 1970s, one that he had students from the 1970s, one that he had never published or even told other never published or even told other never published or even told other scholars about? That seemed unlikely, scholars about? That seemed unlikely, scholars about? That seemed unlikely, but Alexis needed to know for sure. So, but Alexis needed to know for sure. So, but Alexis needed to know for sure. So, she tracked down several people who had she tracked down several people who had she tracked down several people who had worked at the Bureau of Study Council worked at the Bureau of Study Council worked at the Bureau of Study Council back in the day. And those former staff back in the day. And those former staff back in the day. And those former staff members said, "Oh, yeah, I remember. Dr. members said, "Oh, yeah, I remember. Dr. members said, "Oh, yeah, I remember. Dr. Perry did try to redo that original Perry did try to redo that original Perry did try to redo that original study." "Oh, and it took forever," they study." "Oh, and it took forever," they study." "Oh, and it took forever," they explained. It turns out that Perry had explained. It turns out that Perry had explained. It turns out that Perry had spent 10 painstaking years collecting spent 10 painstaking years collecting spent 10 painstaking years collecting hundreds and hundreds of hours of hundreds and hundreds of hours of hundreds and hundreds of hours of student interviews from the 1970s on student interviews from the 1970s on student interviews from the 1970s on Realtore tapes. Alexis was floored. She Realtore tapes. Alexis was floored. She Realtore tapes. Alexis was floored. She hadn't found the interviews behind hadn't found the interviews behind hadn't found the interviews behind Perry's original publication, but in Perry's original publication, but in Perry's original publication, but in some ways, she'd stumbled across some ways, she'd stumbled across some ways, she'd stumbled across something even more remarkable. A something even more remarkable. A something even more remarkable. A completely forgotten follow-up study completely forgotten follow-up study completely forgotten follow-up study filled with unpublished student voices filled with unpublished student voices filled with unpublished student voices from the 1970s. Somewhere out there were from the 1970s. Somewhere out there were from the 1970s. Somewhere out there were hundreds of tape recordings of data that hundreds of tape recordings of data that hundreds of tape recordings of data that could provide a never-before glimpmped could provide a never-before glimpmped could provide a never-before glimpmped peak into the mental health of her peak into the mental health of her peak into the mental health of her father's generation. Those lost tapes father's generation. Those lost tapes father's generation. Those lost tapes could be the key to finally could be the key to finally could be the key to finally understanding what was so different understanding what was so different understanding what was so different about the kids today. And now we just about the kids today. And now we just about the kids today. And now we just needed to find them. The Happiness Lab needed to find them. The Happiness Lab needed to find them. The Happiness Lab will be back in a moment. Anytime people see something bad in the Anytime people see something bad in the world, they're like, "Well, that didn't world, they're like, "Well, that didn't world, they're like, "Well, that didn't used to be there." We'll get back to used to be there." We'll get back to used to be there." We'll get back to Alexis Reading's adventure in just a Alexis Reading's adventure in just a Alexis Reading's adventure in just a moment. But before we do, I want to moment. But before we do, I want to moment. But before we do, I want to introduce you to a different introduce you to a different introduce you to a different psychologist, one who also spends a lot psychologist, one who also spends a lot psychologist, one who also spends a lot of time thinking about how people have of time thinking about how people have of time thinking about how people have changed over time. His name is Adam changed over time. His name is Adam changed over time. His name is Adam Mastroyani. Mastroyani. Mastroyani. >> There's some horrible murder on the >> There's some horrible murder on the >> There's some horrible murder on the news. It's like, you know, they didn't news. It's like, you know, they didn't news. It's like, you know, they didn't used to do that. Some politician does used to do that. Some politician does used to do that. Some politician does something unethical. You know, they something unethical. You know, they something unethical. You know, they didn't used to do that. It seems like we didn't used to do that. It seems like we didn't used to do that. It seems like we have all this stuff in the present that have all this stuff in the present that have all this stuff in the present that I just don't think we used to have in I just don't think we used to have in I just don't think we used to have in the past. And I think part of that is the past. And I think part of that is the past. And I think part of that is cuz like no one really knows what the cuz like no one really knows what the cuz like no one really knows what the past was like, even the people who were past was like, even the people who were past was like, even the people who were there for it. there for it. there for it. >> Adam's an expert on what our minds get >> Adam's an expert on what our minds get >> Adam's an expert on what our minds get wrong when we think about how people wrong when we think about how people wrong when we think about how people used to behave back in the day, used to behave back in the day, used to behave back in the day, especially when it comes to their moral especially when it comes to their moral especially when it comes to their moral goodness. goodness. goodness. >> I feel like I had spent my whole life >> I feel like I had spent my whole life >> I feel like I had spent my whole life hearing people say like, you know, you hearing people say like, you know, you hearing people say like, you know, you used to be able to leave your door used to be able to leave your door used to be able to leave your door unlocked at night and everything would unlocked at night and everything would unlocked at night and everything would be fine. You used to be able to trust a be fine. You used to be able to trust a be fine. You used to be able to trust a man's word and now you can't. You know, man's word and now you can't. You know, man's word and now you can't. You know, this fallen sinful evil world we live in this fallen sinful evil world we live in this fallen sinful evil world we live in is not the world we used to live in. I is not the world we used to live in. I is not the world we used to live in. I can remember a world, or at least I've can remember a world, or at least I've can remember a world, or at least I've been told about one that wasn't so mean been told about one that wasn't so mean been told about one that wasn't so mean and nasty. and nasty. and nasty. >> People love making sweeping claims like >> People love making sweeping claims like >> People love making sweeping claims like these. Back in my day, people were these. Back in my day, people were these. Back in my day, people were better. Society these days is going better. Society these days is going better. Society these days is going right downhill. Or perhaps more relevant right downhill. Or perhaps more relevant right downhill. Or perhaps more relevant for Alexis's work and today's happiness for Alexis's work and today's happiness for Alexis's work and today's happiness hottake discussion, the kids today, hottake discussion, the kids today, hottake discussion, the kids today, they're so much more sensitive and they're so much more sensitive and they're so much more sensitive and fragile and depressed than my generation fragile and depressed than my generation fragile and depressed than my generation was. Claims like these kind of piss Adam was. Claims like these kind of piss Adam was. Claims like these kind of piss Adam off. He often finds himself wondering, off. He often finds himself wondering, off. He often finds himself wondering, "Do we have any real evidence that "Do we have any real evidence that "Do we have any real evidence that people are actually getting worse over people are actually getting worse over people are actually getting worse over time?" time?" time?" >> It's like things can get better and >> It's like things can get better and >> It's like things can get better and things can get worse. I think it's things can get worse. I think it's things can get worse. I think it's merely that the standard of evidence for merely that the standard of evidence for merely that the standard of evidence for things getting worse is so much lower things getting worse is so much lower things getting worse is so much lower than the standard of evidence for things than the standard of evidence for things than the standard of evidence for things getting better. It's like you don't getting better. It's like you don't getting better. It's like you don't really need to provide any proof to feel really need to provide any proof to feel really need to provide any proof to feel convinced or to be convincing that like convinced or to be convincing that like convinced or to be convincing that like something new and bad has happened. And something new and bad has happened. And something new and bad has happened. And Adam is quick to point out that whether Adam is quick to point out that whether Adam is quick to point out that whether people think other people's behavior has people think other people's behavior has people think other people's behavior has changed matters a lot. Take for example changed matters a lot. Take for example changed matters a lot. Take for example what we think about how nice the average what we think about how nice the average what we think about how nice the average person has become over time. person has become over time. person has become over time. >> If you think you used to live in a nice >> If you think you used to live in a nice >> If you think you used to live in a nice world and now you live in a nasty world, world and now you live in a nasty world, world and now you live in a nasty world, like what difference that must make for like what difference that must make for like what difference that must make for the way that you conduct yourself. the way that you conduct yourself. the way that you conduct yourself. Because for one thing, you might be a Because for one thing, you might be a Because for one thing, you might be a little more licensed to be nasty if you little more licensed to be nasty if you little more licensed to be nasty if you think like, well, it's kind of what think like, well, it's kind of what think like, well, it's kind of what we're doing now. Like the rules are out we're doing now. Like the rules are out we're doing now. Like the rules are out the window, so I can't trust other the window, so I can't trust other the window, so I can't trust other people. Therefore, I don't have to be a people. Therefore, I don't have to be a people. Therefore, I don't have to be a trustworthy person either. Everybody trustworthy person either. Everybody trustworthy person either. Everybody else is cheating, so I should cheat, else is cheating, so I should cheat, else is cheating, so I should cheat, too. too. too. >> Our beliefs about people's moral decline >> Our beliefs about people's moral decline >> Our beliefs about people's moral decline can also have big political can also have big political can also have big political consequences. consequences. consequences. >> If someone's like, "Hey man, things used >> If someone's like, "Hey man, things used >> If someone's like, "Hey man, things used to be great. Now they're bad." Wouldn't to be great. Now they're bad." Wouldn't to be great. Now they're bad." Wouldn't it be awesome if they were good again? it be awesome if they were good again? it be awesome if they were good again? Just like, "Put me in charge and I'll do Just like, "Put me in charge and I'll do Just like, "Put me in charge and I'll do it." And like, by the way, if you could it." And like, by the way, if you could it." And like, by the way, if you could turn off all the rules and like give me turn off all the rules and like give me turn off all the rules and like give me unlimited power, that'd be really unlimited power, that'd be really unlimited power, that'd be really helpful. But you should do that because helpful. But you should do that because helpful. But you should do that because we live in these unprecedented times we live in these unprecedented times we live in these unprecedented times where things for the first time have where things for the first time have where things for the first time have gotten really bad, that means we should gotten really bad, that means we should gotten really bad, that means we should take unprecedented measures to turn them take unprecedented measures to turn them take unprecedented measures to turn them back around. So like this is a favorite back around. So like this is a favorite back around. So like this is a favorite refrain of aspiring dictators and refrain of aspiring dictators and refrain of aspiring dictators and autocrats everywhere. autocrats everywhere. autocrats everywhere. >> But do we really believe that people >> But do we really believe that people >> But do we really believe that people today are worse than they were decades today are worse than they were decades today are worse than they were decades ago? Adam wanted more than just ago? Adam wanted more than just ago? Adam wanted more than just anecdotes. So he surveyed a nationally anecdotes. So he surveyed a nationally anecdotes. So he surveyed a nationally representative group of subjects and representative group of subjects and representative group of subjects and asked them to rate how kind, honest, asked them to rate how kind, honest, asked them to rate how kind, honest, nice, and good people are today versus nice, and good people are today versus nice, and good people are today versus in the past. in the past. in the past. >> In every survey we did, people were >> In every survey we did, people were >> In every survey we did, people were like, "Today is the worst time." And like, "Today is the worst time." And like, "Today is the worst time." And when you ask me about the past, it gets when you ask me about the past, it gets when you ask me about the past, it gets better. You can even tell the difference better. You can even tell the difference better. You can even tell the difference between today and four years ago. It between today and four years ago. It between today and four years ago. It just gets a step worse each time we get just gets a step worse each time we get just gets a step worse each time we get closer to the present. closer to the present. closer to the present. >> But have we always thought that the kids >> But have we always thought that the kids >> But have we always thought that the kids were worse back in the day? were worse back in the day? were worse back in the day? >> Here we had a major head start in that >> Here we had a major head start in that >> Here we had a major head start in that other people had asked other people other people had asked other people other people had asked other people these questions for a very long time. So these questions for a very long time. So these questions for a very long time. So we have all this archival survey data we have all this archival survey data we have all this archival survey data gathered for decades and around the gathered for decades and around the gathered for decades and around the world where people are asked questions world where people are asked questions world where people are asked questions like, "Do you think things are getting like, "Do you think things are getting like, "Do you think things are getting worse? Do you think people are less worse? Do you think people are less worse? Do you think people are less respectful than they used to be, less respectful than they used to be, less respectful than they used to be, less ethical, less kind, less friendly?" Adam ethical, less kind, less friendly?" Adam ethical, less kind, less friendly?" Adam was able to gather lots of data from was able to gather lots of data from was able to gather lots of data from these archival surveys. He amassed more these archival surveys. He amassed more these archival surveys. He amassed more than 200,000 data points testing people than 200,000 data points testing people than 200,000 data points testing people all over the world going back as far as all over the world going back as far as all over the world going back as far as the 1940s. And in more than 80% of these the 1940s. And in more than 80% of these the 1940s. And in more than 80% of these archival surveys, most people said, archival surveys, most people said, archival surveys, most people said, "Yep, people today are worse than they "Yep, people today are worse than they "Yep, people today are worse than they were in the past." were in the past." were in the past." >> So, we can see that not only do people a >> So, we can see that not only do people a >> So, we can see that not only do people a majority of people believe this in the majority of people believe this in the majority of people believe this in the US, majorities of people believe that US, majorities of people believe that US, majorities of people believe that morality is declining in every country morality is declining in every country morality is declining in every country that's ever been surveyed. But Adam that's ever been surveyed. But Adam that's ever been surveyed. But Adam wondered, who are the folks driving this wondered, who are the folks driving this wondered, who are the folks driving this effect? effect? effect? >> The suspicion that like it's a certain >> The suspicion that like it's a certain >> The suspicion that like it's a certain kind of person who says that people are kind of person who says that people are kind of person who says that people are less good than they used to be. It's less good than they used to be. It's less good than they used to be. It's probably a conservative and it's probably a conservative and it's probably a conservative and it's probably an older person. And we found probably an older person. And we found probably an older person. And we found that neither of those things are fully that neither of those things are fully that neither of those things are fully true. They're somewhat true. So it is true. They're somewhat true. So it is true. They're somewhat true. So it is true that people who report themselves true that people who report themselves true that people who report themselves as being more conservative or more on as being more conservative or more on as being more conservative or more on the right side of the political spectrum the right side of the political spectrum the right side of the political spectrum do say this more. So they see a bigger do say this more. So they see a bigger do say this more. So they see a bigger change. But even if you go as far left change. But even if you go as far left change. But even if you go as far left as you can go in our survey population, as you can go in our survey population, as you can go in our survey population, they too perceive decline over the same they too perceive decline over the same they too perceive decline over the same periods of time. So it's not like being periods of time. So it's not like being periods of time. So it's not like being on one side of the aisle turns the on one side of the aisle turns the on one side of the aisle turns the effect on and off. When it comes to age, effect on and off. When it comes to age, effect on and off. When it comes to age, it's actually a little more complicated. it's actually a little more complicated. it's actually a little more complicated. So it is the case that older people say So it is the case that older people say So it is the case that older people say there's been more decline in their there's been more decline in their there's been more decline in their lifetimes, but they have a longer lifetimes, but they have a longer lifetimes, but they have a longer lifetime in which to witness that lifetime in which to witness that lifetime in which to witness that decline. So what we really want to know decline. So what we really want to know decline. So what we really want to know is do they perceive a greater rate of is do they perceive a greater rate of is do they perceive a greater rate of decline? So if you just divide how much decline? So if you just divide how much decline? So if you just divide how much moral decline they've seen over the moral decline they've seen over the moral decline they've seen over the number of years that they've had to see number of years that they've had to see number of years that they've had to see it, you get the same number if you're it, you get the same number if you're it, you get the same number if you're younger or older and you do get the same younger or older and you do get the same younger or older and you do get the same number. So it's not just conservatives number. So it's not just conservatives number. So it's not just conservatives and it's not just older people who are and it's not just older people who are and it's not just older people who are saying this. Everybody regardless of age saying this. Everybody regardless of age saying this. Everybody regardless of age and political persuasion can agree like and political persuasion can agree like and political persuasion can agree like people are worse now than they once people are worse now than they once people are worse now than they once were. were. were. >> But is everybody right? Is Adam smart to >> But is everybody right? Is Adam smart to >> But is everybody right? Is Adam smart to be skeptical? Or has there really been a be skeptical? Or has there really been a be skeptical? Or has there really been a continuous and steep decline in people's continuous and steep decline in people's continuous and steep decline in people's kindness, honesty, and ness over time? kindness, honesty, and ness over time? kindness, honesty, and ness over time? If that's true, like that's the biggest If that's true, like that's the biggest If that's true, like that's the biggest effect in all of social science. Like effect in all of social science. Like effect in all of social science. Like that's the most important thing we that's the most important thing we that's the most important thing we should figure out because like if people should figure out because like if people should figure out because like if people used to be nice and now they're nasty, used to be nice and now they're nasty, used to be nice and now they're nasty, then like well how did that happen? When then like well how did that happen? When then like well how did that happen? When did it happen? Is there a way we can did it happen? Is there a way we can did it happen? Is there a way we can reverse it? reverse it? reverse it? >> Unfortunately, figuring out if people >> Unfortunately, figuring out if people >> Unfortunately, figuring out if people have in fact gotten less nice over time have in fact gotten less nice over time have in fact gotten less nice over time is kind of hard. is kind of hard. is kind of hard. >> There's no like great objective measure >> There's no like great objective measure >> There's no like great objective measure of this, right? We can't go into the of this, right? We can't go into the of this, right? We can't go into the Arctic and like drill for ice cores that Arctic and like drill for ice cores that Arctic and like drill for ice cores that tell us the historical amounts of of tell us the historical amounts of of tell us the historical amounts of of niceness in 1750. But what we can do is niceness in 1750. But what we can do is niceness in 1750. But what we can do is look again at all this archival research look again at all this archival research look again at all this archival research we have where people are asked about the we have where people are asked about the we have where people are asked about the state of their moral worlds at that state of their moral worlds at that state of their moral worlds at that time. So questions like have you looked time. So questions like have you looked time. So questions like have you looked after someone's mail plants or pets after someone's mail plants or pets after someone's mail plants or pets while they were away in the last month? while they were away in the last month? while they were away in the last month? Have you given up your seat on the bus? Have you given up your seat on the bus? Have you given up your seat on the bus? Did people treat you with respect all Did people treat you with respect all Did people treat you with respect all day yesterday? If it is the case that day yesterday? If it is the case that day yesterday? If it is the case that people are getting worse and worse over people are getting worse and worse over people are getting worse and worse over time, we should be able to pick it up on time, we should be able to pick it up on time, we should be able to pick it up on these questions. People like surveyed these questions. People like surveyed these questions. People like surveyed back in 1985 should say, "I was treated back in 1985 should say, "I was treated back in 1985 should say, "I was treated with respect all day yesterday." And with respect all day yesterday." And with respect all day yesterday." And then people in 2025 should say, "I then people in 2025 should say, "I then people in 2025 should say, "I wasn't treated with respect all day wasn't treated with respect all day wasn't treated with respect all day yesterday." Instead, we find that in all yesterday." Instead, we find that in all yesterday." Instead, we find that in all of these questions, they're flat over of these questions, they're flat over of these questions, they're flat over and over again. Flat, flat, flat. People and over again. Flat, flat, flat. People and over again. Flat, flat, flat. People give the same answers every year. give the same answers every year. give the same answers every year. >> Across more than a 100 surveys, testing >> Across more than a 100 surveys, testing >> Across more than a 100 surveys, testing more than 10 million people worldwide more than 10 million people worldwide more than 10 million people worldwide from the 1960s until today, Adam found from the 1960s until today, Adam found from the 1960s until today, Adam found that people report seeing exactly the that people report seeing exactly the that people report seeing exactly the same levels of niceness, honesty, and same levels of niceness, honesty, and same levels of niceness, honesty, and kindness over time. But those are just kindness over time. But those are just kindness over time. But those are just surveys. Is there any way to measure surveys. Is there any way to measure surveys. Is there any way to measure whether people's actual moral behavior whether people's actual moral behavior whether people's actual moral behavior has changed across time? has changed across time? has changed across time? >> So another way of looking at how people >> So another way of looking at how people >> So another way of looking at how people treat each other interpersonally is to treat each other interpersonally is to treat each other interpersonally is to look at what economists have been doing look at what economists have been doing look at what economists have been doing in their labs for the past 50 years. in their labs for the past 50 years. in their labs for the past 50 years. They do these economic games and games They do these economic games and games They do these economic games and games is is like a strong word for what these is is like a strong word for what these is is like a strong word for what these are. Uh I'd hate to hang out and play are. Uh I'd hate to hang out and play are. Uh I'd hate to hang out and play games with economists, but basically games with economists, but basically games with economists, but basically people come into the lab, they play like people come into the lab, they play like people come into the lab, they play like the prisoners dilemma or a common goods the prisoners dilemma or a common goods the prisoners dilemma or a common goods game. These are games where essentially game. These are games where essentially game. These are games where essentially you have the option of being generous or you have the option of being generous or you have the option of being generous or selfish with a stranger. A team of selfish with a stranger. A team of selfish with a stranger. A team of economists put the data from all these economists put the data from all these economists put the data from all these different do you want to be nice or mean different do you want to be nice or mean different do you want to be nice or mean to a stranger games together into what's to a stranger games together into what's to a stranger games together into what's known as a metaanalysis. You can think known as a metaanalysis. You can think known as a metaanalysis. You can think of a metaanalysis as one big statistical of a metaanalysis as one big statistical of a metaanalysis as one big statistical test that mathematically combines the test that mathematically combines the test that mathematically combines the results of lots of studies on one topic. results of lots of studies on one topic. results of lots of studies on one topic. And the metaanalysis Adam found included And the metaanalysis Adam found included And the metaanalysis Adam found included more than 500 different generosity more than 500 different generosity more than 500 different generosity experiments running all the way from the experiments running all the way from the experiments running all the way from the 1950s until today. 1950s until today. 1950s until today. >> And what they wanted to know was are >> And what they wanted to know was are >> And what they wanted to know was are people more likely to be generous or people more likely to be generous or people more likely to be generous or selfish with a stranger? And the selfish with a stranger? And the selfish with a stranger? And the researchers themselves tell us that they researchers themselves tell us that they researchers themselves tell us that they went in thinking that people were going went in thinking that people were going went in thinking that people were going to be more selfish over time. They to be more selfish over time. They to be more selfish over time. They expected to find that finding. Instead, expected to find that finding. Instead, expected to find that finding. Instead, they found the opposite. People were 10 they found the opposite. People were 10 they found the opposite. People were 10 percentage points more likely to choose percentage points more likely to choose percentage points more likely to choose the generous option in these games than the generous option in these games than the generous option in these games than the selfish one. the selfish one. the selfish one. >> Not only have people not gotten meaner >> Not only have people not gotten meaner >> Not only have people not gotten meaner over the last 70 years, they've actually over the last 70 years, they've actually over the last 70 years, they've actually gotten 10% nicer. Adam guessed that most gotten 10% nicer. Adam guessed that most gotten 10% nicer. Adam guessed that most lay people would find these results lay people would find these results lay people would find these results shocking. shocking. shocking. >> We just took those findings and asked >> We just took those findings and asked >> We just took those findings and asked another sample of people to predict another sample of people to predict another sample of people to predict them. We describe the games. We tell them. We describe the games. We tell them. We describe the games. We tell them the period of time we're looking them the period of time we're looking them the period of time we're looking at. And we said, "We'll pay you extra at. And we said, "We'll pay you extra at. And we said, "We'll pay you extra money if you get this right." Like just money if you get this right." Like just money if you get this right." Like just where did it go over time. And people where did it go over time. And people where did it go over time. And people say, much like the researchers, they say, much like the researchers, they say, much like the researchers, they expect that people got more selfish over expect that people got more selfish over expect that people got more selfish over time when in fact they got more time when in fact they got more time when in fact they got more selfless. So even when you make the selfless. So even when you make the selfless. So even when you make the question really specific, even when you question really specific, even when you question really specific, even when you pay people to get the answer right, they pay people to get the answer right, they pay people to get the answer right, they will tell you that people are meaner will tell you that people are meaner will tell you that people are meaner when in fact they're nicer. when in fact they're nicer. when in fact they're nicer. >> Adam calls this strange effect the >> Adam calls this strange effect the >> Adam calls this strange effect the illusion of moral decline. We think illusion of moral decline. We think illusion of moral decline. We think people are getting worse over time, that people are getting worse over time, that people are getting worse over time, that everybody is less honest and kind and everybody is less honest and kind and everybody is less honest and kind and nice than they used to be. But Adam's nice than they used to be. But Adam's nice than they used to be. But Adam's work shows we're just wrong. But where work shows we're just wrong. But where work shows we're just wrong. But where does the illusion of moral decline come does the illusion of moral decline come does the illusion of moral decline come from? Adam thinks it arises because of from? Adam thinks it arises because of from? Adam thinks it arises because of the combination of two common cognitive the combination of two common cognitive the combination of two common cognitive biases. The first bias is one that we biases. The first bias is one that we biases. The first bias is one that we talk about a lot on the happiness lab. talk about a lot on the happiness lab. talk about a lot on the happiness lab. We don't notice the good stuff in life We don't notice the good stuff in life We don't notice the good stuff in life nearly as much as we notice the bad nearly as much as we notice the bad nearly as much as we notice the bad stuff. stuff. stuff. >> It's just a negativity bias. We pay more >> It's just a negativity bias. We pay more >> It's just a negativity bias. We pay more attention to bad things than good attention to bad things than good attention to bad things than good things. This is why, you know, if it things. This is why, you know, if it things. This is why, you know, if it bleeds, it leads. You're more likely to bleeds, it leads. You're more likely to bleeds, it leads. You're more likely to be served a negative news story. You're be served a negative news story. You're be served a negative news story. You're more likely to click it. But that's more likely to click it. But that's more likely to click it. But that's enough to make it seem like the world's enough to make it seem like the world's enough to make it seem like the world's always bad. I don't think that's enough always bad. I don't think that's enough always bad. I don't think that's enough to make it seem like the world was once to make it seem like the world was once to make it seem like the world was once good. For that, you need an additional good. For that, you need an additional good. For that, you need an additional effect. This one comes more strictly effect. This one comes more strictly effect. This one comes more strictly from the memory literature. It's called from the memory literature. It's called from the memory literature. It's called the fading affect bias, which is just the fading affect bias, which is just the fading affect bias, which is just the observation that the pleasure of the observation that the pleasure of the observation that the pleasure of good memories does not fade as fast as good memories does not fade as fast as good memories does not fade as fast as the pain of negative memories. So, like the pain of negative memories. So, like the pain of negative memories. So, like if you got turned down for your high if you got turned down for your high if you got turned down for your high school prom, like that feels pretty bad school prom, like that feels pretty bad school prom, like that feels pretty bad at the time, but 20 years later, it's at the time, but 20 years later, it's at the time, but 20 years later, it's maybe a funny story or maybe a relieving maybe a funny story or maybe a relieving maybe a funny story or maybe a relieving story, right? I found my person uh and story, right? I found my person uh and story, right? I found my person uh and like so glad I didn't end up with that like so glad I didn't end up with that like so glad I didn't end up with that one. Whereas, like if you had a great one. Whereas, like if you had a great one. Whereas, like if you had a great high school prom, like probably was fun high school prom, like probably was fun high school prom, like probably was fun at the time when you remember it's like at the time when you remember it's like at the time when you remember it's like it's not as fun as it was to experience, it's not as fun as it was to experience, it's not as fun as it was to experience, but it's still pretty good. And those but it's still pretty good. And those but it's still pretty good. And those two tendencies are what happens in two tendencies are what happens in two tendencies are what happens in memory on average. The good things lose memory on average. The good things lose memory on average. The good things lose some of their goodness, but generally some of their goodness, but generally some of their goodness, but generally remain good. the bad things lose more of remain good. the bad things lose more of remain good. the bad things lose more of their badness and they sometimes flip to their badness and they sometimes flip to their badness and they sometimes flip to becoming good. And so if you combine becoming good. And so if you combine becoming good. And so if you combine these two phenomena, the fading affect these two phenomena, the fading affect these two phenomena, the fading affect bias and the negativity bias, you can bias and the negativity bias, you can bias and the negativity bias, you can create this perception that the world is create this perception that the world is create this perception that the world is now bad, but it was once good. now bad, but it was once good. now bad, but it was once good. >> Let's do a quick recap. Why do people >> Let's do a quick recap. Why do people >> Let's do a quick recap. Why do people mistakenly think that people today are mistakenly think that people today are mistakenly think that people today are worse than they were in the past? Reason worse than they were in the past? Reason worse than they were in the past? Reason number one is the negativity bias. When number one is the negativity bias. When number one is the negativity bias. When we look out at the world as it is today, we look out at the world as it is today, we look out at the world as it is today, we naturally notice people doing lots of we naturally notice people doing lots of we naturally notice people doing lots of bad stuff, but we don't tend to notice bad stuff, but we don't tend to notice bad stuff, but we don't tend to notice all the people doing good stuff. This all the people doing good stuff. This all the people doing good stuff. This starts us off on the path of thinking, starts us off on the path of thinking, starts us off on the path of thinking, hey, people today are kind of crappy. hey, people today are kind of crappy. hey, people today are kind of crappy. Then our minds get hit by bias number Then our minds get hit by bias number Then our minds get hit by bias number two, the fading affect bias. All the bad two, the fading affect bias. All the bad two, the fading affect bias. All the bad stuff we noticed about people in the stuff we noticed about people in the stuff we noticed about people in the past starts to slowly seem less bad as past starts to slowly seem less bad as past starts to slowly seem less bad as time goes on. The past becomes rosier time goes on. The past becomes rosier time goes on. The past becomes rosier and rosier. Ergo, we come to believe and rosier. Ergo, we come to believe and rosier. Ergo, we come to believe that people today suck more than they that people today suck more than they that people today suck more than they did back in the day. Adam says that did back in the day. Adam says that did back in the day. Adam says that these two biases can cause illusions of these two biases can cause illusions of these two biases can cause illusions of decline more often than we realize. Take decline more often than we realize. Take decline more often than we realize. Take for example another situation in which for example another situation in which for example another situation in which people often say things were better in people often say things were better in people often say things were better in the past with music. Think about the the past with music. Think about the the past with music. Think about the newest song you've heard recently. Is newest song you've heard recently. Is newest song you've heard recently. Is that song better or worse than the music that song better or worse than the music that song better or worse than the music that was on the radio when you were in that was on the radio when you were in that was on the radio when you were in high school? If you're like most people, high school? If you're like most people, high school? If you're like most people, you probably think that today's music is you probably think that today's music is you probably think that today's music is just worse than when you were a just worse than when you were a just worse than when you were a teenager. that today's music ain't like teenager. that today's music ain't like teenager. that today's music ain't like that oldtime rock and roll as it were. that oldtime rock and roll as it were. that oldtime rock and roll as it were. But notice how the same two cognitive But notice how the same two cognitive But notice how the same two cognitive biases are at work when we evaluate how biases are at work when we evaluate how biases are at work when we evaluate how music has changed over time. music has changed over time. music has changed over time. >> You hear both good music and bad music. >> You hear both good music and bad music. >> You hear both good music and bad music. The bad music feels worse than the good The bad music feels worse than the good The bad music feels worse than the good music feels good. And then you get this music feels good. And then you get this music feels good. And then you get this feeling of like, you know, back on the feeling of like, you know, back on the feeling of like, you know, back on the radio in whenever you were growing up, radio in whenever you were growing up, radio in whenever you were growing up, we only had good stuff. It was like we only had good stuff. It was like we only had good stuff. It was like mainly hits, but it's because you've mainly hits, but it's because you've mainly hits, but it's because you've forgotten and now don't care about all forgotten and now don't care about all forgotten and now don't care about all of the bad music. He forgot about the of the bad music. He forgot about the of the bad music. He forgot about the number one hit of Disco Duck by Rick number one hit of Disco Duck by Rick number one hit of Disco Duck by Rick De's and his cast of idiots. That's De's and his cast of idiots. That's De's and his cast of idiots. That's their literal band name. Like no one their literal band name. Like no one their literal band name. Like no one remembers that that was in a, you know, remembers that that was in a, you know, remembers that that was in a, you know, a brief moment of hysteria a number one a brief moment of hysteria a number one a brief moment of hysteria a number one hit in America. They remember the hit in America. They remember the hit in America. They remember the Beatles and the and the Rolling Stones Beatles and the and the Rolling Stones Beatles and the and the Rolling Stones music that's lasted. music that's lasted. music that's lasted. >> I've had this phenomena when I go on >> I've had this phenomena when I go on >> I've had this phenomena when I go on road trips sometimes I'm, you know, road trips sometimes I'm, you know, road trips sometimes I'm, you know, listening to whatever is on the radio listening to whatever is on the radio listening to whatever is on the radio cuz my phone sucks and it doesn't talk cuz my phone sucks and it doesn't talk cuz my phone sucks and it doesn't talk to my car. And so I'll hear like, "Oh, to my car. And so I'll hear like, "Oh, to my car. And so I'll hear like, "Oh, it's Casey Kasem's like, you know, top it's Casey Kasem's like, you know, top it's Casey Kasem's like, you know, top countdown." And they do these retro countdown." And they do these retro countdown." And they do these retro countdowns. My husband and I were countdowns. My husband and I were countdowns. My husband and I were driving one time and it was like the driving one time and it was like the driving one time and it was like the 1987 KCK7 countdown. I was like, "Oh my 1987 KCK7 countdown. I was like, "Oh my 1987 KCK7 countdown. I was like, "Oh my god, 1987 was the best." There was like god, 1987 was the best." There was like god, 1987 was the best." There was like the cure. Like this is going to be the cure. Like this is going to be the cure. Like this is going to be amazing. And I was like, "Oh my god, none of And I was like, "Oh my god, none of these exist in my memory anymore. It's these exist in my memory anymore. It's these exist in my memory anymore. It's just that one Amazing Cure song." But just that one Amazing Cure song." But just that one Amazing Cure song." But actually, like the top 100 was just as actually, like the top 100 was just as actually, like the top 100 was just as bad in 1987 as it was today, even though bad in 1987 as it was today, even though bad in 1987 as it was today, even though my memory does not believe that at all. my memory does not believe that at all. my memory does not believe that at all. >> It's so funny. I've had the exact same >> It's so funny. I've had the exact same >> It's so funny. I've had the exact same experience driving with my dad, experience driving with my dad, experience driving with my dad, listening to like those SiriusXM listening to like those SiriusXM listening to like those SiriusXM stations where they play verbatim top 40 stations where they play verbatim top 40 stations where they play verbatim top 40 countdowns, cuz it's a rare peak into countdowns, cuz it's a rare peak into countdowns, cuz it's a rare peak into what the past was actually like at the what the past was actually like at the what the past was actually like at the time. No one today is picking these time. No one today is picking these time. No one today is picking these songs for you. This is like what America songs for you. This is like what America songs for you. This is like what America picked on that day in that year. And I picked on that day in that year. And I picked on that day in that year. And I think there's actually so few ways of think there's actually so few ways of think there's actually so few ways of really peeking into what it was like to really peeking into what it was like to really peeking into what it was like to be a person back then. But like no, that be a person back then. But like no, that be a person back then. But like no, that was the radio people listen to. was the radio people listen to. was the radio people listen to. >> I want to highlight the point that Adam >> I want to highlight the point that Adam >> I want to highlight the point that Adam just made because I think it's super just made because I think it's super just made because I think it's super important to know if people are really important to know if people are really important to know if people are really getting worse over time. We have to have getting worse over time. We have to have getting worse over time. We have to have an accurate way to peak into the past. an accurate way to peak into the past. an accurate way to peak into the past. But reliable windows into earlier eras But reliable windows into earlier eras But reliable windows into earlier eras are super rare. Adam had archival data are super rare. Adam had archival data are super rare. Adam had archival data sets, so he had the receipts to show sets, so he had the receipts to show sets, so he had the receipts to show that people were nicer in the past than that people were nicer in the past than that people were nicer in the past than we remember. I had the actual Casey Kesm we remember. I had the actual Casey Kesm we remember. I had the actual Casey Kesm Countdown from 1987, so I could hear Countdown from 1987, so I could hear Countdown from 1987, so I could hear that my beloved oldtime rock and roll that my beloved oldtime rock and roll that my beloved oldtime rock and roll was just as bad as the songs of today. was just as bad as the songs of today. was just as bad as the songs of today. And that gets us back to today's And that gets us back to today's And that gets us back to today's happiness hottake. For years, I and so happiness hottake. For years, I and so happiness hottake. For years, I and so many other scholars have assumed that many other scholars have assumed that many other scholars have assumed that kids mental health today is more messed kids mental health today is more messed kids mental health today is more messed up than it was in previous generations. up than it was in previous generations. up than it was in previous generations. But could I and so many other scholars But could I and so many other scholars But could I and so many other scholars be falling prey to yet another illusion be falling prey to yet another illusion be falling prey to yet another illusion of decline? The only way to find out of decline? The only way to find out of decline? The only way to find out would be to find an accurate would be to find an accurate would be to find an accurate archaeological peak into what college archaeological peak into what college archaeological peak into what college students were really like back when students were really like back when students were really like back when Casey Kasem did that 1987 countdown or Casey Kasem did that 1987 countdown or Casey Kasem did that 1987 countdown or when our parents' parents' generation when our parents' parents' generation when our parents' parents' generation went to college. For decades, went to college. For decades, went to college. For decades, researchers like me assumed that no such researchers like me assumed that no such researchers like me assumed that no such accurate peak existed. But that was accurate peak existed. But that was accurate peak existed. But that was about to change. The idea that there about to change. The idea that there about to change. The idea that there might be these materials that could might be these materials that could might be these materials that could change the story of what it means to change the story of what it means to change the story of what it means to grow up in this pivotal moment in time. grow up in this pivotal moment in time. grow up in this pivotal moment in time. I was going to find them. The happiness I was going to find them. The happiness I was going to find them. The happiness lab will return in a moment. College student mental health expert College student mental health expert Alexis Reading spent her formative years Alexis Reading spent her formative years Alexis Reading spent her formative years watching her Egyptologist father piece watching her Egyptologist father piece watching her Egyptologist father piece together stories of past generations together stories of past generations together stories of past generations with small bits of bone and pottery. Now with small bits of bone and pottery. Now with small bits of bone and pottery. Now she was poised to put together her own she was poised to put together her own she was poised to put together her own story of the past. One that could tell story of the past. One that could tell story of the past. One that could tell us something really important about the us something really important about the us something really important about the present. That is if she could find the present. That is if she could find the present. That is if she could find the lost data tapes of a mysterious lost data tapes of a mysterious lost data tapes of a mysterious unpublished 1970s study. unpublished 1970s study. unpublished 1970s study. I dug through the basements. I climbed I dug through the basements. I climbed I dug through the basements. I climbed through the other things in the attic. I through the other things in the attic. I through the other things in the attic. I at some point pried open the drawer of a at some point pried open the drawer of a at some point pried open the drawer of a rusty file cabinet in the basement that rusty file cabinet in the basement that rusty file cabinet in the basement that had like been sitting in water. I was had like been sitting in water. I was had like been sitting in water. I was able to find meeting minutes and the old able to find meeting minutes and the old able to find meeting minutes and the old letters to funders and confirm that the letters to funders and confirm that the letters to funders and confirm that the study had taken place. It had been study had taken place. It had been study had taken place. It had been rigorous, but I couldn't find the tapes. rigorous, but I couldn't find the tapes. rigorous, but I couldn't find the tapes. After smashing through all the rusty After smashing through all the rusty After smashing through all the rusty file cabinets she could, Alexis turned file cabinets she could, Alexis turned file cabinets she could, Alexis turned to her last hope, the university to her last hope, the university to her last hope, the university archive. that spot where institutions archive. that spot where institutions archive. that spot where institutions stick all the historical stuff that stick all the historical stuff that stick all the historical stuff that they're not sure what to do with. they're not sure what to do with. they're not sure what to do with. >> Month after month, I was sitting in the >> Month after month, I was sitting in the >> Month after month, I was sitting in the archives opening box after box until one archives opening box after box until one archives opening box after box until one day lifted up the top of a box and there day lifted up the top of a box and there day lifted up the top of a box and there was the first set of them. It took me was the first set of them. It took me was the first set of them. It took me almost a year, but I found them. almost a year, but I found them. almost a year, but I found them. >> Alexis finally had her long lost >> Alexis finally had her long lost >> Alexis finally had her long lost archaeological peak into what student archaeological peak into what student archaeological peak into what student life was like when her father was in life was like when her father was in life was like when her father was in college. She was finally ready to college. She was finally ready to college. She was finally ready to analyze the data. analyze the data. analyze the data. >> So, I enlisted the help of my colleague, >> So, I enlisted the help of my colleague, >> So, I enlisted the help of my colleague, Dr. Nancy Hill. And as we were framing Dr. Nancy Hill. And as we were framing Dr. Nancy Hill. And as we were framing what it was that we were hoping to hear what it was that we were hoping to hear what it was that we were hoping to hear on these recordings, we started from a on these recordings, we started from a on these recordings, we started from a Kids These Days place. Our idea was, Kids These Days place. Our idea was, Kids These Days place. Our idea was, "Oh, this perfect time capsule of "Oh, this perfect time capsule of "Oh, this perfect time capsule of interviews from the 1970s. Obviously, interviews from the 1970s. Obviously, interviews from the 1970s. Obviously, it's going to help us figure out what is it's going to help us figure out what is it's going to help us figure out what is so different about being a college so different about being a college so different about being a college student today." And we both sat down to student today." And we both sat down to student today." And we both sat down to listen independently. And we both had listen independently. And we both had listen independently. And we both had the same just jarring realization that the same just jarring realization that the same just jarring realization that what we were actually hearing sounded no what we were actually hearing sounded no what we were actually hearing sounded no different than what our students were different than what our students were different than what our students were talking about in our, you know, office talking about in our, you know, office talking about in our, you know, office hours, in our classrooms. That there was hours, in our classrooms. That there was hours, in our classrooms. That there was this level of continuity that we had this level of continuity that we had this level of continuity that we had absolutely not expected. absolutely not expected. absolutely not expected. >> Give me some examples. The loneliness >> Give me some examples. The loneliness >> Give me some examples. The loneliness that they were struggling with, the that they were struggling with, the that they were struggling with, the challenge of finding friends, finding challenge of finding friends, finding challenge of finding friends, finding their people. I remember walking through their people. I remember walking through their people. I remember walking through the dining hall many times then just not the dining hall many times then just not the dining hall many times then just not seeing anyone that I felt comfortable seeing anyone that I felt comfortable seeing anyone that I felt comfortable with to sit down with and I would just with to sit down with and I would just with to sit down with and I would just go off and sit by myself. go off and sit by myself. go off and sit by myself. >> The pressure to have life figured out by >> The pressure to have life figured out by >> The pressure to have life figured out by graduation and the sense of the ticking graduation and the sense of the ticking graduation and the sense of the ticking clock. clock. clock. >> You know, it just seemed really huge and >> You know, it just seemed really huge and >> You know, it just seemed really huge and sort of overwhelming and I was afraid of sort of overwhelming and I was afraid of sort of overwhelming and I was afraid of the courses and I was afraid I wouldn't the courses and I was afraid I wouldn't the courses and I was afraid I wouldn't do well and all that. do well and all that. do well and all that. >> Things that students come into my office >> Things that students come into my office >> Things that students come into my office to talk about today were exactly the to talk about today were exactly the to talk about today were exactly the things that those students were talking things that those students were talking things that those students were talking about. Alexis wasn't able to share the about. Alexis wasn't able to share the about. Alexis wasn't able to share the students actual recordings because the students actual recordings because the students actual recordings because the 1970s researchers didn't think to ask 1970s researchers didn't think to ask 1970s researchers didn't think to ask for podcast usage in their original for podcast usage in their original for podcast usage in their original consent forms, which makes sense because consent forms, which makes sense because consent forms, which makes sense because podcasts didn't exist in 1975. But podcasts didn't exist in 1975. But podcasts didn't exist in 1975. But Alexis was able to share the actual Alexis was able to share the actual Alexis was able to share the actual quotes from student recordings. And quotes from student recordings. And quotes from student recordings. And that's what you're hearing now. that's what you're hearing now. that's what you're hearing now. >> I think I compare myself to other people >> I think I compare myself to other people >> I think I compare myself to other people too much when I first came. You know, too much when I first came. You know, too much when I first came. You know, like a lot of kids came from money and I like a lot of kids came from money and I like a lot of kids came from money and I started to compare that to what I had started to compare that to what I had started to compare that to what I had and I worry about that. I went through a and I worry about that. I went through a and I worry about that. I went through a period of depression between January and period of depression between January and period of depression between January and February. I'm getting to the point where February. I'm getting to the point where February. I'm getting to the point where I don't know what I want and I don't I don't know what I want and I don't I don't know what I want and I don't know. I'm not even sure how to deal with know. I'm not even sure how to deal with know. I'm not even sure how to deal with people. people. people. >> Listening to these reenactments was so >> Listening to these reenactments was so >> Listening to these reenactments was so shocking for me. shocking for me. shocking for me. >> We are all sort of pessimistic and >> We are all sort of pessimistic and >> We are all sort of pessimistic and cynical about everything when we think cynical about everything when we think cynical about everything when we think about our chances of getting a job. about our chances of getting a job. about our chances of getting a job. >> These are the same kinds of worries that >> These are the same kinds of worries that >> These are the same kinds of worries that my Yale students share in my happiness my Yale students share in my happiness my Yale students share in my happiness class today. class today. class today. >> I really collapsed one day. I just was I >> I really collapsed one day. I just was I >> I really collapsed one day. I just was I felt like I was going to cry all the felt like I was going to cry all the felt like I was going to cry all the time and that had never happened to me time and that had never happened to me time and that had never happened to me before cuz I've never been a crier and before cuz I've never been a crier and before cuz I've never been a crier and I've never been that unhappy. I always I've never been that unhappy. I always I've never been that unhappy. I always kind of believed in myself. Now I would kind of believed in myself. Now I would kind of believed in myself. Now I would sit on my bed and listen to music and sit on my bed and listen to music and sit on my bed and listen to music and feel like what am I going to do? It was feel like what am I going to do? It was feel like what am I going to do? It was so remarkable to hear those so remarkable to hear those so remarkable to hear those parallels. And then every so often there parallels. And then every so often there parallels. And then every so often there would be these peppered in details of would be these peppered in details of would be these peppered in details of like a student on the recordings asking like a student on the recordings asking like a student on the recordings asking for the ashtray or a lighter or for the ashtray or a lighter or for the ashtray or a lighter or something that was like so anacronistic, something that was like so anacronistic, something that was like so anacronistic, but the the core developmental but the the core developmental but the the core developmental who am I? What do I want? How am I going who am I? What do I want? How am I going who am I? What do I want? How am I going to find my place? That was so to find my place? That was so to find my place? That was so beautifully connected. It was it was beautifully connected. It was it was beautifully connected. It was it was really disorienting for us as really disorienting for us as really disorienting for us as researchers to be so wrong about our researchers to be so wrong about our researchers to be so wrong about our hypothesis. hypothesis. hypothesis. >> Alexis analyzed the results every way >> Alexis analyzed the results every way >> Alexis analyzed the results every way she could think of. Each new analysis she could think of. Each new analysis she could think of. Each new analysis revealed the same finding. The mental revealed the same finding. The mental revealed the same finding. The mental health of the 1970s students on those health of the 1970s students on those health of the 1970s students on those tapes was simply no different from the tapes was simply no different from the tapes was simply no different from the mental health of the kids in the 2020s. mental health of the kids in the 2020s. mental health of the kids in the 2020s. As a lastditch attempt to confirm her As a lastditch attempt to confirm her As a lastditch attempt to confirm her original hypothesis, she enlisted the original hypothesis, she enlisted the original hypothesis, she enlisted the help of a new group of research help of a new group of research help of a new group of research collaborators, the kids today. So, I set collaborators, the kids today. So, I set collaborators, the kids today. So, I set up some focus groups with current up some focus groups with current up some focus groups with current students and I was fully transparent. students and I was fully transparent. students and I was fully transparent. You know, these are interviews that took You know, these are interviews that took You know, these are interviews that took place in the 1970s. I need you to help place in the 1970s. I need you to help place in the 1970s. I need you to help me figure out what is similar and what me figure out what is similar and what me figure out what is similar and what is different. And I gave them two is different. And I gave them two is different. And I gave them two highlighters. Green was what you highlighters. Green was what you highlighters. Green was what you identify as similar. And pink was identify as similar. And pink was identify as similar. And pink was anything that was different. And in anything that was different. And in anything that was different. And in focus group after focus group, I just focus group after focus group, I just focus group after focus group, I just watched the transcripts turn green with watched the transcripts turn green with watched the transcripts turn green with highlighter ink. The kids today could highlighter ink. The kids today could highlighter ink. The kids today could not see any difference between their own not see any difference between their own not see any difference between their own mental health problems and those faced mental health problems and those faced mental health problems and those faced by their grandparents' generation. The by their grandparents' generation. The by their grandparents' generation. The typical students happiness struggles typical students happiness struggles typical students happiness struggles just hadn't seemed to change in over 50 just hadn't seemed to change in over 50 just hadn't seemed to change in over 50 years. I first heard about Alexis's years. I first heard about Alexis's years. I first heard about Alexis's findings at a workshop at Harvard over a findings at a workshop at Harvard over a findings at a workshop at Harvard over a year ago. For weeks, I couldn't get her year ago. For weeks, I couldn't get her year ago. For weeks, I couldn't get her results out of my head. They simply results out of my head. They simply results out of my head. They simply didn't fit with all the studies I'd read didn't fit with all the studies I'd read didn't fit with all the studies I'd read and all the results I'd talked about in and all the results I'd talked about in and all the results I'd talked about in my own interviews. All those findings my own interviews. All those findings my own interviews. All those findings showing increasing rates of depression showing increasing rates of depression showing increasing rates of depression and anxiety in kids today. I asked and anxiety in kids today. I asked and anxiety in kids today. I asked Alexis where she thought the discrepancy Alexis where she thought the discrepancy Alexis where she thought the discrepancy came from. I think the first thing is came from. I think the first thing is came from. I think the first thing is really to begin to decouple these two really to begin to decouple these two really to begin to decouple these two trends of what is happening trends of what is happening trends of what is happening simultaneously. One to understand what simultaneously. One to understand what simultaneously. One to understand what is a clinical challenge and what is a is a clinical challenge and what is a is a clinical challenge and what is a typical developmental challenge. There typical developmental challenge. There typical developmental challenge. There are students who are having very real are students who are having very real are students who are having very real mental health crisis where they need mental health crisis where they need mental health crisis where they need intervention from clinical counselors. intervention from clinical counselors. intervention from clinical counselors. And then the vast majority of students And then the vast majority of students And then the vast majority of students are those who are just struggling with are those who are just struggling with are those who are just struggling with typical developmental challenges of typical developmental challenges of typical developmental challenges of transition of what does it mean to leave transition of what does it mean to leave transition of what does it mean to leave home, move to a college campus, be asked home, move to a college campus, be asked home, move to a college campus, be asked to answer these big questions about what to answer these big questions about what to answer these big questions about what do I want out of my life? How am I going do I want out of my life? How am I going do I want out of my life? How am I going to get there? And we conflate these two to get there? And we conflate these two to get there? And we conflate these two things which means that number one, we things which means that number one, we things which means that number one, we all panic. So the second a student comes all panic. So the second a student comes all panic. So the second a student comes to us and they tell us that they're to us and they tell us that they're to us and they tell us that they're lonely or that they have anxiety, we lonely or that they have anxiety, we lonely or that they have anxiety, we leap to this is a clinical problem. So leap to this is a clinical problem. So leap to this is a clinical problem. So we're really trying to have a different we're really trying to have a different we're really trying to have a different kind of conversation about what's really kind of conversation about what's really kind of conversation about what's really going on, what is typical normal going on, what is typical normal going on, what is typical normal developmental and hard about being a developmental and hard about being a developmental and hard about being a young adult, about being in college and young adult, about being in college and young adult, about being in college and to recognize the clinical challenges to recognize the clinical challenges to recognize the clinical challenges that are happening on a separate track. that are happening on a separate track. that are happening on a separate track. I resonated with Alexis's idea of these I resonated with Alexis's idea of these I resonated with Alexis's idea of these two tracks because research shows that two tracks because research shows that two tracks because research shows that there definitely are more college there definitely are more college there definitely are more college students on that first track today than students on that first track today than students on that first track today than there have ever been in the past. there have ever been in the past. there have ever been in the past. Students facing clinically significant Students facing clinically significant Students facing clinically significant levels of mental health issues that levels of mental health issues that levels of mental health issues that require urgent professional treatment. require urgent professional treatment. require urgent professional treatment. Students facing acute symptoms like Students facing acute symptoms like Students facing acute symptoms like panic attacks or suicidality or a level panic attacks or suicidality or a level panic attacks or suicidality or a level of anxiety that requires medication just of anxiety that requires medication just of anxiety that requires medication just to function. But there are also lots of to function. But there are also lots of to function. But there are also lots of other students in track two. college other students in track two. college other students in track two. college students who are having a hard time students who are having a hard time students who are having a hard time because college life has always been because college life has always been because college life has always been hard. That second group is simply hard. That second group is simply hard. That second group is simply reacting normatively to the typical reacting normatively to the typical reacting normatively to the typical developmental stresses that come with developmental stresses that come with developmental stresses that come with being 19 years old. No matter what being 19 years old. No matter what being 19 years old. No matter what generation you're in, Alexis worries generation you're in, Alexis worries generation you're in, Alexis worries that we might be hurting this second that we might be hurting this second that we might be hurting this second group of students when we inadvertently group of students when we inadvertently group of students when we inadvertently lump them in with the first. We are so lump them in with the first. We are so lump them in with the first. We are so scared that we are going to underreact scared that we are going to underreact scared that we are going to underreact to a severe challenge that we tend to to a severe challenge that we tend to to a severe challenge that we tend to overreact. Alexis also worries that kids overreact. Alexis also worries that kids overreact. Alexis also worries that kids today are starting to own the narrative today are starting to own the narrative today are starting to own the narrative the adults typically tell about them, the adults typically tell about them, the adults typically tell about them, that they're just so different than that they're just so different than that they're just so different than previous generations. And that's why previous generations. And that's why previous generations. And that's why she's begun a new intervention with the she's begun a new intervention with the she's begun a new intervention with the students in her classes, one aimed at students in her classes, one aimed at students in her classes, one aimed at teaching them just how similar their teaching them just how similar their teaching them just how similar their current generation is to previous ones. current generation is to previous ones. current generation is to previous ones. And so I give them a series of quotes And so I give them a series of quotes And so I give them a series of quotes and I tell them these either come from and I tell them these either come from and I tell them these either come from the 1970s or these are from the 2020s. the 1970s or these are from the 2020s. the 1970s or these are from the 2020s. And I ask them not just to tell me which And I ask them not just to tell me which And I ask them not just to tell me which generation they think it's from, but generation they think it's from, but generation they think it's from, but why. And so we'll put up a quote like a why. And so we'll put up a quote like a why. And so we'll put up a quote like a student who couldn't get out of bed and student who couldn't get out of bed and student who couldn't get out of bed and it feels like he's wasting his time it feels like he's wasting his time it feels like he's wasting his time because he doesn't want to go to class because he doesn't want to go to class because he doesn't want to go to class because he doesn't know what's going on because he doesn't know what's going on because he doesn't know what's going on in class and he doesn't know who to ask in class and he doesn't know who to ask in class and he doesn't know who to ask for help so he just doesn't show up. And for help so he just doesn't show up. And for help so he just doesn't show up. And my students will tell me, "Oh, I've done my students will tell me, "Oh, I've done my students will tell me, "Oh, I've done this." Or, "This is bedrock. He's this." Or, "This is bedrock. He's this." Or, "This is bedrock. He's probably scrolling on TikTok." And we'll probably scrolling on TikTok." And we'll probably scrolling on TikTok." And we'll build this strong case and will even build this strong case and will even build this strong case and will even tell me there's no way that this is a tell me there's no way that this is a tell me there's no way that this is a student from another generation. And student from another generation. And student from another generation. And then I reveal one after the next that then I reveal one after the next that then I reveal one after the next that indeed this is a student from another indeed this is a student from another indeed this is a student from another generation, from your parents' generation, from your parents' generation, from your parents' generation or from your grandparents generation or from your grandparents generation or from your grandparents generation. And I think that simple generation. And I think that simple generation. And I think that simple activity really opens our frame to activity really opens our frame to activity really opens our frame to better understanding. I couldn't help better understanding. I couldn't help better understanding. I couldn't help but try out Alexis's intervention with but try out Alexis's intervention with but try out Alexis's intervention with my own students at Yale. So this is for my own students at Yale. So this is for my own students at Yale. So this is for this episode that we're doing about how this episode that we're doing about how this episode that we're doing about how mental health has changed over time. And mental health has changed over time. And mental health has changed over time. And I'm going to do an exercise with you I'm going to do an exercise with you I'm going to do an exercise with you guys that Alexis Reading does with her guys that Alexis Reading does with her guys that Alexis Reading does with her students. She was the one that found students. She was the one that found students. She was the one that found these recordings from the 1970s. So these recordings from the 1970s. So these recordings from the 1970s. So these are Harvard students, class of these are Harvard students, class of these are Harvard students, class of 1975. And also she was doing qualitative 1975. And also she was doing qualitative 1975. And also she was doing qualitative interviews with students from 2025. And interviews with students from 2025. And interviews with students from 2025. And so the game is just like, can you tell so the game is just like, can you tell so the game is just like, can you tell which is which? Whether this is a which is which? Whether this is a which is which? Whether this is a student from 1975 or a student from student from 1975 or a student from student from 1975 or a student from 2025. Does that make sense? 2025. Does that make sense? 2025. Does that make sense? >> Yes. Yeah. >> Yes. Yeah. >> Yes. Yeah. >> Here is quote number one. I remember >> Here is quote number one. I remember >> Here is quote number one. I remember walking through the dining hall many walking through the dining hall many walking through the dining hall many times, then just not seeing anyone that times, then just not seeing anyone that times, then just not seeing anyone that I felt comfortable to sit down with, and I felt comfortable to sit down with, and I felt comfortable to sit down with, and I would just go off and sit by myself. I would just go off and sit by myself. I would just go off and sit by myself. This is a student talking about his This is a student talking about his This is a student talking about his first year on campus. So, 2020s or first year on campus. So, 2020s or first year on campus. So, 2020s or 1970s? 1970s? 1970s? >> That just kind of sounds like me my >> That just kind of sounds like me my >> That just kind of sounds like me my freshman year. freshman year. freshman year. >> My Yale students seem to get it wrong, >> My Yale students seem to get it wrong, >> My Yale students seem to get it wrong, too. too. too. >> I'll say that's totally in line with the >> I'll say that's totally in line with the >> I'll say that's totally in line with the 2020s experience. 2020s experience. 2020s experience. >> Yeah, 100% 2020. That is like peak >> Yeah, 100% 2020. That is like peak >> Yeah, 100% 2020. That is like peak undergrad social anxiety. undergrad social anxiety. undergrad social anxiety. >> Turns out nope. It was 1975. >> Turns out nope. It was 1975. >> Turns out nope. It was 1975. >> What? >> What? >> What? >> They too were shocked by what they were >> They too were shocked by what they were >> They too were shocked by what they were hearing. Okay, next one. I went through hearing. Okay, next one. I went through hearing. Okay, next one. I went through a period of depression between January a period of depression between January a period of depression between January and February. I'm getting to the point and February. I'm getting to the point and February. I'm getting to the point where I don't even know what I want. I where I don't even know what I want. I where I don't even know what I want. I don't know. I'm just not sure how to don't know. I'm just not sure how to don't know. I'm just not sure how to even deal with people anymore. even deal with people anymore. even deal with people anymore. >> 2025. I think there's something about >> 2025. I think there's something about >> 2025. I think there's something about the language of like pausing and not the language of like pausing and not the language of like pausing and not finishing a sentence that I'm like, "Oh, finishing a sentence that I'm like, "Oh, finishing a sentence that I'm like, "Oh, Jenzer." Jenzer." Jenzer." >> They were just more articulate in the >> They were just more articulate in the >> They were just more articulate in the 1970s. Yeah. 1970s. Yeah. 1970s. Yeah. >> I think the phrase I don't know how to >> I think the phrase I don't know how to >> I think the phrase I don't know how to deal with people and talking about like deal with people and talking about like deal with people and talking about like people scare me and stuff like that. people scare me and stuff like that. people scare me and stuff like that. That's very much like a 2020ish type of That's very much like a 2020ish type of That's very much like a 2020ish type of thing to say. thing to say. thing to say. >> They too assumed that their grandparents >> They too assumed that their grandparents >> They too assumed that their grandparents generation was different. in my head generation was different. in my head generation was different. in my head like 1970s students are all like happy like 1970s students are all like happy like 1970s students are all like happy and like congregating and like they know and like congregating and like they know and like congregating and like they know exactly what they want to do and they're exactly what they want to do and they're exactly what they want to do and they're going to get jobs and whatever and they going to get jobs and whatever and they going to get jobs and whatever and they don't have to worry about any of these don't have to worry about any of these don't have to worry about any of these things. That's my stereotype at least. things. That's my stereotype at least. things. That's my stereotype at least. >> 1970s again. I lied. They're all from >> 1970s again. I lied. They're all from >> 1970s again. I lied. They're all from the 1970s as you probably figured out. the 1970s as you probably figured out. the 1970s as you probably figured out. But how does it feel hearing that But how does it feel hearing that But how does it feel hearing that they're so similar? they're so similar? they're so similar? >> Oh, well it gives me a sense of like >> Oh, well it gives me a sense of like >> Oh, well it gives me a sense of like common humanity that like everybody goes common humanity that like everybody goes common humanity that like everybody goes through the same things. The first thing through the same things. The first thing through the same things. The first thing to come to mind like what this feels to come to mind like what this feels to come to mind like what this feels like to me is you know those ancient like to me is you know those ancient like to me is you know those ancient graffiti at Pompei or whatever where graffiti at Pompei or whatever where graffiti at Pompei or whatever where it's like people talking about bathroom it's like people talking about bathroom it's like people talking about bathroom humor kind of stuff. I feel like looking humor kind of stuff. I feel like looking humor kind of stuff. I feel like looking at that always makes me feel like a they at that always makes me feel like a they at that always makes me feel like a they were just like us and I feel like we were just like us and I feel like we were just like us and I feel like we think of ourselves as like this unique think of ourselves as like this unique think of ourselves as like this unique special thing where we're dealing with special thing where we're dealing with special thing where we're dealing with bad mental health or whatever. But yeah, bad mental health or whatever. But yeah, bad mental health or whatever. But yeah, I guess it probably was this universal I guess it probably was this universal I guess it probably was this universal experience and people in the 1970s experience and people in the 1970s experience and people in the 1970s probably were feeling the same way. I probably were feeling the same way. I probably were feeling the same way. I think that's like kind of cool. think that's like kind of cool. think that's like kind of cool. >> I mean there's something definitely >> I mean there's something definitely >> I mean there's something definitely validating about it. So, it's nice to validating about it. So, it's nice to validating about it. So, it's nice to hear that it really doesn't matter what hear that it really doesn't matter what hear that it really doesn't matter what time uh you're probably going to go time uh you're probably going to go time uh you're probably going to go through the same sorts of questions, through the same sorts of questions, through the same sorts of questions, insecurities, and whatnot. insecurities, and whatnot. insecurities, and whatnot. >> I think we put such a a false barrier >> I think we put such a a false barrier >> I think we put such a a false barrier between us and current students with the between us and current students with the between us and current students with the kids these days narrative because kids these days narrative because kids these days narrative because naturally, what do they conclude from naturally, what do they conclude from naturally, what do they conclude from that? The grown-ups in my life aren't that? The grown-ups in my life aren't that? The grown-ups in my life aren't going to listen. They don't respect me. going to listen. They don't respect me. going to listen. They don't respect me. They don't understand what I'm going They don't understand what I'm going They don't understand what I'm going through. And if we can, you know, just through. And if we can, you know, just through. And if we can, you know, just take some of the bricks out of that wall take some of the bricks out of that wall take some of the bricks out of that wall and build that connection, it's it's and build that connection, it's it's and build that connection, it's it's incredibly meaningful to sort of see incredibly meaningful to sort of see incredibly meaningful to sort of see that generational similarity and to lead that generational similarity and to lead that generational similarity and to lead with a sense of empathy of I was there with a sense of empathy of I was there with a sense of empathy of I was there too. And if we can tap back into that, too. And if we can tap back into that, too. And if we can tap back into that, and we can, we can have a much more and we can, we can have a much more and we can, we can have a much more humane, grounded conversation with young humane, grounded conversation with young humane, grounded conversation with young people that is a lot less kids these people that is a lot less kids these people that is a lot less kids these days and a lot more I know what you're days and a lot more I know what you're days and a lot more I know what you're feeling. I experienced it, too. Now that feeling. I experienced it, too. Now that feeling. I experienced it, too. Now that I've sort of tapped back in, I can I've sort of tapped back in, I can I've sort of tapped back in, I can relate differently. But there was a relate differently. But there was a relate differently. But there was a second group that Alexis realized might second group that Alexis realized might second group that Alexis realized might benefit from hearing the details of benefit from hearing the details of benefit from hearing the details of these old interviews. The 1970s these old interviews. The 1970s these old interviews. The 1970s participants themselves. With permission participants themselves. With permission participants themselves. With permission from the university, Alexis was able to from the university, Alexis was able to from the university, Alexis was able to track down 20 of the original track down 20 of the original track down 20 of the original participants. And her question for them participants. And her question for them participants. And her question for them was simple. Do you remember how tough it was simple. Do you remember how tough it was simple. Do you remember how tough it was to be in college? And then she was to be in college? And then she was to be in college? And then she offered them the chance to hear the offered them the chance to hear the offered them the chance to hear the recording of their original interviews. recording of their original interviews. recording of their original interviews. How did the 70-year-old participants How did the 70-year-old participants How did the 70-year-old participants react to hearing the struggles of their react to hearing the struggles of their react to hearing the struggles of their 19-year-old selves more than 50 years 19-year-old selves more than 50 years 19-year-old selves more than 50 years later? later? later? >> They would tell us like, "I remembered >> They would tell us like, "I remembered >> They would tell us like, "I remembered the broad strokes. I remembered the broad strokes. I remembered the broad strokes. I remembered generally what was happening, but I generally what was happening, but I generally what was happening, but I didn't remember how it felt." These didn't remember how it felt." These didn't remember how it felt." These former students had succumbed to the former students had succumbed to the former students had succumbed to the same cognitive biases that psychologist same cognitive biases that psychologist same cognitive biases that psychologist Adam Mastroyani had described earlier. Adam Mastroyani had described earlier. Adam Mastroyani had described earlier. They heard the same negative stuff that They heard the same negative stuff that They heard the same negative stuff that we all do about kids today in the news. we all do about kids today in the news. we all do about kids today in the news. At the same time, their memories of At the same time, their memories of At the same time, their memories of their own college days slowly got their own college days slowly got their own college days slowly got muddled by the fading affect bias. They muddled by the fading affect bias. They muddled by the fading affect bias. They simply didn't remember how bad things simply didn't remember how bad things simply didn't remember how bad things often felt as a college student. All often felt as a college student. All often felt as a college student. All those moments of loneliness and job those moments of loneliness and job those moments of loneliness and job worries and academic stress were clear worries and academic stress were clear worries and academic stress were clear as day in the recordings. But the as day in the recordings. But the as day in the recordings. But the participants couldn't remember just how participants couldn't remember just how participants couldn't remember just how bad those moments felt at the time. And bad those moments felt at the time. And bad those moments felt at the time. And that to me was so so interesting. that to me was so so interesting. that to me was so so interesting. Indeed, what they started to say is that Indeed, what they started to say is that Indeed, what they started to say is that they wish they'd heard the recording they wish they'd heard the recording they wish they'd heard the recording sooner so that when they were raising sooner so that when they were raising sooner so that when they were raising their kids or teaching their students or their kids or teaching their students or their kids or teaching their students or talking to their grandkids, they could talking to their grandkids, they could talking to their grandkids, they could have related better. But there's still have related better. But there's still have related better. But there's still one archaeological mystery from Alexis's one archaeological mystery from Alexis's one archaeological mystery from Alexis's adventures that we haven't solved yet. adventures that we haven't solved yet. adventures that we haven't solved yet. Dr. Perry spent 10 years painstakingly Dr. Perry spent 10 years painstakingly Dr. Perry spent 10 years painstakingly collecting hundreds of interviews with collecting hundreds of interviews with collecting hundreds of interviews with students from the 1970s on those students from the 1970s on those students from the 1970s on those realtore tapes. Why had he decided to realtore tapes. Why had he decided to realtore tapes. Why had he decided to replicate his original study 20 years replicate his original study 20 years replicate his original study 20 years later with a new group of students? And later with a new group of students? And later with a new group of students? And why did he choose not to publish those why did he choose not to publish those why did he choose not to publish those findings? How did all his data end up in findings? How did all his data end up in findings? How did all his data end up in unmarked boxes on some random attic unmarked boxes on some random attic unmarked boxes on some random attic bookshelf? The answer to this mystery bookshelf? The answer to this mystery bookshelf? The answer to this mystery was buried inside that wet, rusty file was buried inside that wet, rusty file was buried inside that wet, rusty file cabinet that Alexis described smashing cabinet that Alexis described smashing cabinet that Alexis described smashing into earlier. Sitting at the bottom was into earlier. Sitting at the bottom was into earlier. Sitting at the bottom was a sheet of notebook paper covered in a sheet of notebook paper covered in a sheet of notebook paper covered in scribbles of what seemed to be the scribbles of what seemed to be the scribbles of what seemed to be the minutes of a random research meeting. minutes of a random research meeting. minutes of a random research meeting. Only later would Alexis discover that Only later would Alexis discover that Only later would Alexis discover that the notes from this particular meeting the notes from this particular meeting the notes from this particular meeting were important. They were from the were important. They were from the were important. They were from the conversation in which Perry's team made conversation in which Perry's team made conversation in which Perry's team made their fateful decision to abandon the their fateful decision to abandon the their fateful decision to abandon the new study. Alexis finally had her new study. Alexis finally had her new study. Alexis finally had her solution not only to why the study had solution not only to why the study had solution not only to why the study had begun, but also why it was shelved. begun, but also why it was shelved. begun, but also why it was shelved. There was a researcher who said in in There was a researcher who said in in There was a researcher who said in in these like poignant words that they these like poignant words that they these like poignant words that they couldn't believe that they had to accept couldn't believe that they had to accept couldn't believe that they had to accept the null hypothesis that there was no the null hypothesis that there was no the null hypothesis that there was no difference between generations. The difference between generations. The difference between generations. The study was replicated because they wanted study was replicated because they wanted study was replicated because they wanted to see what was different about kids to see what was different about kids to see what was different about kids these days. that they had done their these days. that they had done their these days. that they had done their work in the 50s and 60s and by the 70s work in the 50s and 60s and by the 70s work in the 50s and 60s and by the 70s with everything that had changed in with everything that had changed in with everything that had changed in society they had decided kids these days society they had decided kids these days society they had decided kids these days were so different they had to do the were so different they had to do the were so different they had to do the study again. Perry's team had exactly study again. Perry's team had exactly study again. Perry's team had exactly the same hypothesis about their the same hypothesis about their the same hypothesis about their contemporary students that so many of us contemporary students that so many of us contemporary students that so many of us have about the kids today. Those adult have about the kids today. Those adult have about the kids today. Those adult researchers who grew up in the 1950s researchers who grew up in the 1950s researchers who grew up in the 1950s looked at the college students of the looked at the college students of the looked at the college students of the 1970s walking around with their weird 1970s walking around with their weird 1970s walking around with their weird bell bottoms and speaking so anxiously bell bottoms and speaking so anxiously bell bottoms and speaking so anxiously about the Vietnam War and postcol job about the Vietnam War and postcol job about the Vietnam War and postcol job prospects and they asked themselves, prospects and they asked themselves, prospects and they asked themselves, "What the heck is up with kids today? "What the heck is up with kids today? "What the heck is up with kids today? There's got to be something that's so There's got to be something that's so There's got to be something that's so different about them." And the different about them." And the different about them." And the researchers in 1979 felt like they had researchers in 1979 felt like they had researchers in 1979 felt like they had failed after 10 years and literally failed after 10 years and literally failed after 10 years and literally thousands of hours worth of work. And thousands of hours worth of work. And thousands of hours worth of work. And that was why the study was sent off to that was why the study was sent off to that was why the study was sent off to cold storage because they hadn't been cold storage because they hadn't been cold storage because they hadn't been able to prove generational difference. able to prove generational difference. able to prove generational difference. And here we were looking back to 1975 And here we were looking back to 1975 And here we were looking back to 1975 saying exactly the same thing. There's saying exactly the same thing. There's saying exactly the same thing. There's no difference. no difference. no difference. That's a nice way to sum up this week's That's a nice way to sum up this week's That's a nice way to sum up this week's happiness hot take. There's no happiness hot take. There's no happiness hot take. There's no difference. Gen Z college students today difference. Gen Z college students today difference. Gen Z college students today are going through the same sorts of are going through the same sorts of are going through the same sorts of struggles as college students faced in struggles as college students faced in struggles as college students faced in their parents parents' generation. And their parents parents' generation. And their parents parents' generation. And again, I want to be super clear here. again, I want to be super clear here. again, I want to be super clear here. I'm not saying that there aren't college I'm not saying that there aren't college I'm not saying that there aren't college students today who are facing real students today who are facing real students today who are facing real mental health struggles. Sadly, there mental health struggles. Sadly, there mental health struggles. Sadly, there are far too many. And surveys show that are far too many. And surveys show that are far too many. And surveys show that the rate of those clinical level mental the rate of those clinical level mental the rate of those clinical level mental health struggles have indeed gone up health struggles have indeed gone up health struggles have indeed gone up over time and over generations. But we over time and over generations. But we over time and over generations. But we also have to remind ourselves to be a also have to remind ourselves to be a also have to remind ourselves to be a little skeptical whenever we start little skeptical whenever we start little skeptical whenever we start thinking that the kids today are so much thinking that the kids today are so much thinking that the kids today are so much worse than how kids used to be. Our worse than how kids used to be. Our worse than how kids used to be. Our lying minds are prone to seeing an lying minds are prone to seeing an lying minds are prone to seeing an elucory decline. whenever we think about elucory decline. whenever we think about elucory decline. whenever we think about how things have changed over time, how things have changed over time, how things have changed over time, whether that's what we believe about whether that's what we believe about whether that's what we believe about people's kindness or the kids' mental people's kindness or the kids' mental people's kindness or the kids' mental health or the crappiness of music in the health or the crappiness of music in the health or the crappiness of music in the latest top 10 chart. So, the next time latest top 10 chart. So, the next time latest top 10 chart. So, the next time you hear someone say something you hear someone say something you hear someone say something disparaging about the kids today, I hope disparaging about the kids today, I hope disparaging about the kids today, I hope you will ever so gently hit them with you will ever so gently hit them with you will ever so gently hit them with the hottest of happiness hot takes. The the hottest of happiness hot takes. The the hottest of happiness hot takes. The kids today are actually all right, or at kids today are actually all right, or at kids today are actually all right, or at least just as all right as the kids have least just as all right as the kids have least just as all right as the kids have ever been. And be sure to tell them that ever been. And be sure to tell them that ever been. And be sure to tell them that you heard that happiness hottake here on you heard that happiness hottake here on you heard that happiness hottake here on the happiness lab with me, Dr. for Lari the happiness lab with me, Dr. for Lari the happiness lab with me, Dr. for Lari Santos.