Your Mind Is Trapped In The Past & Future… 5 Minutes Of This Fixes It | Henry Shukman

I wanted today to really try and have a I wanted today to really try and have a practical guide to meditation for practical guide to meditation for practical guide to meditation for people. And so I thought I'd start off people. And so I thought I'd start off people. And so I thought I'd start off by asking you by asking you by asking you what is the actual point of meditation? what is the actual point of meditation? what is the actual point of meditation? Yeah. Yeah. That's a that's a beautiful Yeah. Yeah. That's a that's a beautiful Yeah. Yeah. That's a that's a beautiful question. I mean honestly I think it's question. I mean honestly I think it's question. I mean honestly I think it's almost the same as a question as you almost the same as a question as you almost the same as a question as you know what is the point of having this know what is the point of having this know what is the point of having this life? I would say it's as deep as that life? I would say it's as deep as that life? I would say it's as deep as that because meditation is this incredible because meditation is this incredible because meditation is this incredible opportunity. It gives us the opportunity opportunity. It gives us the opportunity opportunity. It gives us the opportunity to know to be aware that we're actually to know to be aware that we're actually to know to be aware that we're actually alive. That to me is the deepest point alive. That to me is the deepest point alive. That to me is the deepest point of meditation is to let us recognize of meditation is to let us recognize of meditation is to let us recognize that most simple fact that we just that most simple fact that we just that most simple fact that we just hardly ever really take in the the hardly ever really take in the the hardly ever really take in the the blessing. I mean, of course, there's all blessing. I mean, of course, there's all blessing. I mean, of course, there's all kinds of problems we can have and kinds of problems we can have and kinds of problems we can have and there's all kinds of challenges and there's all kinds of challenges and there's all kinds of challenges and troubles that humanity faces and an troubles that humanity faces and an troubles that humanity faces and an individual faces. But the fact of being individual faces. But the fact of being individual faces. But the fact of being alive, conscious, aware, knowing that alive, conscious, aware, knowing that alive, conscious, aware, knowing that we're alive, that actually at the at the we're alive, that actually at the at the we're alive, that actually at the at the deepest level is a great it's an deepest level is a great it's an deepest level is a great it's an incalculable blessing to be having this incalculable blessing to be having this incalculable blessing to be having this experience called life. There's tons of experience called life. There's tons of experience called life. There's tons of answers that have been given to that answers that have been given to that answers that have been given to that question. What's the point of it? But I question. What's the point of it? But I question. What's the point of it? But I think fundamentally it's to actually think fundamentally it's to actually think fundamentally it's to actually recognize the gift that we've been given recognize the gift that we've been given recognize the gift that we've been given in being alive. Why is it do you think in being alive. Why is it do you think in being alive. Why is it do you think that people that people that people need a practice like meditation need a practice like meditation need a practice like meditation to be aware of this amazing gift? And I to be aware of this amazing gift? And I to be aware of this amazing gift? And I guess the followup to that is is there guess the followup to that is is there guess the followup to that is is there something unique about the world today? something unique about the world today? something unique about the world today? Meditation has been around for thousands Meditation has been around for thousands Meditation has been around for thousands of years at the very least, probably of years at the very least, probably of years at the very least, probably longer. longer. longer. But the world seems to be very different But the world seems to be very different But the world seems to be very different today. There's a lot of uh conflict. today. There's a lot of uh conflict. today. There's a lot of uh conflict. There's political instability. A lot of There's political instability. A lot of There's political instability. A lot of people feel that the world is out of people feel that the world is out of people feel that the world is out of control and therefore they feel out of control and therefore they feel out of control and therefore they feel out of control. So does meditation perhaps have control. So does meditation perhaps have control. So does meditation perhaps have a unique role in the current state of a unique role in the current state of a unique role in the current state of the world? the world? the world? >> Yeah. Yeah, it's a great question. I >> Yeah. Yeah, it's a great question. I >> Yeah. Yeah, it's a great question. I feel that there have been comparable feel that there have been comparable feel that there have been comparable times before times before times before >> right >> right >> right >> not globally but nationally. China for >> not globally but nationally. China for >> not globally but nationally. China for example went through a terrible civil example went through a terrible civil example went through a terrible civil war in the 8th and 9th centuries uh 750s war in the 8th and 9th centuries uh 750s war in the 8th and 9th centuries uh 750s so the 8th century when many many they so the 8th century when many many they so the 8th century when many many they some reckoning say twothirds of the some reckoning say twothirds of the some reckoning say twothirds of the population died in that civil war population died in that civil war population died in that civil war through war through drought through through war through drought through through war through drought through >> uh famine through sickness you know um >> uh famine through sickness you know um >> uh famine through sickness you know um >> so it's not like humanity hasn't had >> so it's not like humanity hasn't had >> so it's not like humanity hasn't had extremely turbulent chaotic you know extremely turbulent chaotic you know extremely turbulent chaotic you know catastrophic times before. I think catastrophic times before. I think catastrophic times before. I think actually it's more in our evolutionary actually it's more in our evolutionary actually it's more in our evolutionary wiring that we've inherited that we we wiring that we've inherited that we we wiring that we've inherited that we we we find it hard to um to settle. It's we find it hard to um to settle. It's we find it hard to um to settle. It's very easy for our nervous systems to get very easy for our nervous systems to get very easy for our nervous systems to get on overdrive and we we we feel sort of on overdrive and we we we feel sort of on overdrive and we we we feel sort of driven to keep locked into activity, you driven to keep locked into activity, you driven to keep locked into activity, you know, and even when we're not engaged in know, and even when we're not engaged in know, and even when we're not engaged in outward activity, the activity of our outward activity, the activity of our outward activity, the activity of our minds continues. So there's a lot of minds continues. So there's a lot of minds continues. So there's a lot of evolutionary sort of pressure behind a evolutionary sort of pressure behind a evolutionary sort of pressure behind a sort of constant engagement with sort of constant engagement with sort of constant engagement with activity when we're awake. And where activity when we're awake. And where activity when we're awake. And where whatever the causes of that are, the whatever the causes of that are, the whatever the causes of that are, the sources of that are, the fact is we sources of that are, the fact is we sources of that are, the fact is we apparently have evolved in such a way apparently have evolved in such a way apparently have evolved in such a way that we do need some kind of that we do need some kind of that we do need some kind of intervention to just intervention to just intervention to just disengage disengage disengage >> and and and so I think we get sometimes >> and and and so I think we get sometimes >> and and and so I think we get sometimes I feel it's like we you know we I feel it's like we you know we I feel it's like we you know we experience the world as sort of being in experience the world as sort of being in experience the world as sort of being in front of us and we just automatically front of us and we just automatically front of us and we just automatically get involved with you know, the moment get involved with you know, the moment get involved with you know, the moment we open our eyes, we're kind of inter we open our eyes, we're kind of inter we open our eyes, we're kind of inter interacting with the world. I mean, it's interacting with the world. I mean, it's interacting with the world. I mean, it's very natural in a way that we would do very natural in a way that we would do very natural in a way that we would do that, but because we're doing that, it's that, but because we're doing that, it's that, but because we're doing that, it's hard for us to recognize that that, you hard for us to recognize that that, you hard for us to recognize that that, you know, we're we're already here before know, we're we're already here before know, we're we're already here before we're doing anything, before we're we're doing anything, before we're we're doing anything, before we're engaged with the world, we're already engaged with the world, we're already engaged with the world, we're already existing. So, we we jump out of our core existing. So, we we jump out of our core existing. So, we we jump out of our core existence into activity very very existence into activity very very existence into activity very very easily. And and like I said, the moment easily. And and like I said, the moment easily. And and like I said, the moment we stop doing stuff, we tend to just we stop doing stuff, we tend to just we stop doing stuff, we tend to just perpetuate it through our mental perpetuate it through our mental perpetuate it through our mental activity. activity. activity. >> Yeah. It's interesting hearing you talk >> Yeah. It's interesting hearing you talk >> Yeah. It's interesting hearing you talk about the turmoil that has been there in about the turmoil that has been there in about the turmoil that has been there in the past. I think in many ways the past. I think in many ways the past. I think in many ways it's very reassuring to hear that. It's it's very reassuring to hear that. It's it's very reassuring to hear that. It's not of course great to hear about how not of course great to hear about how not of course great to hear about how many people died in the Chinese civil many people died in the Chinese civil many people died in the Chinese civil war. war. war. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But what is reassuring is this idea that >> But what is reassuring is this idea that >> But what is reassuring is this idea that humanity has been here before. humanity has been here before. humanity has been here before. >> Yeah. And we will no doubt be here >> Yeah. And we will no doubt be here >> Yeah. And we will no doubt be here again. again. again. And if necessity is the mother of all And if necessity is the mother of all And if necessity is the mother of all invention, it kind of stands to reason invention, it kind of stands to reason invention, it kind of stands to reason that there would have been a reason why that there would have been a reason why that there would have been a reason why humans came up with this concept of humans came up with this concept of humans came up with this concept of meditation. Yes. The practice of meditation. Yes. The practice of meditation. Yes. The practice of meditation. meditation. meditation. >> Exactly. And and yeah, we can maybe >> Exactly. And and yeah, we can maybe >> Exactly. And and yeah, we can maybe think, [snorts] well, they didn't have think, [snorts] well, they didn't have think, [snorts] well, they didn't have smartphones and they didn't have all the smartphones and they didn't have all the smartphones and they didn't have all the things that we have today, but they had things that we have today, but they had things that we have today, but they had other things and they still found that other things and they still found that other things and they still found that meditation was useful. So perhaps for meditation was useful. So perhaps for meditation was useful. So perhaps for all of our modern technological all of our modern technological all of our modern technological advancements, advancements, advancements, maybe there's something fundamental to maybe there's something fundamental to maybe there's something fundamental to the human experience that meditation the human experience that meditation the human experience that meditation allows us to experience that was just as allows us to experience that was just as allows us to experience that was just as relevant 5,000 years ago as it is today. relevant 5,000 years ago as it is today. relevant 5,000 years ago as it is today. >> I think that's exactly right. Otherwise, >> I think that's exactly right. Otherwise, >> I think that's exactly right. Otherwise, they wouldn't have been doing it, they wouldn't have been doing it, they wouldn't have been doing it, >> you know. So the first uh fairly >> you know. So the first uh fairly >> you know. So the first uh fairly fairly concrete proof of meditation is fairly concrete proof of meditation is fairly concrete proof of meditation is actually about 3,500 years ago in the actually about 3,500 years ago in the actually about 3,500 years ago in the Indis Valleys, the Indis Valley Indis Valleys, the Indis Valley Indis Valleys, the Indis Valley civilization of northern India civilization of northern India civilization of northern India >> where they found uh carvings that look >> where they found uh carvings that look >> where they found uh carvings that look like people meditating from about 1500 like people meditating from about 1500 like people meditating from about 1500 BCE. Um but presumably it far predates BCE. Um but presumably it far predates BCE. Um but presumably it far predates that. So yeah, whatever the conditions that. So yeah, whatever the conditions that. So yeah, whatever the conditions were back then, they still needed were back then, they still needed were back then, they still needed something to allow them. It wasn't like something to allow them. It wasn't like something to allow them. It wasn't like they could just automatically sort of they could just automatically sort of they could just automatically sort of sit still and be content. And that's sit still and be content. And that's sit still and be content. And that's that's one of the great things about it that's one of the great things about it that's one of the great things about it is to find that there is actually a is to find that there is actually a is to find that there is actually a contentment, a a peace, a fulfillment, contentment, a a peace, a fulfillment, contentment, a a peace, a fulfillment, an okayess, more than okayess, a you an okayess, more than okayess, a you an okayess, more than okayess, a you know, a a quiet joy even that's actually know, a a quiet joy even that's actually know, a a quiet joy even that's actually already already already >> hidden in us potentially waiting to be >> hidden in us potentially waiting to be >> hidden in us potentially waiting to be discovered. Yeah. you know, and I think discovered. Yeah. you know, and I think discovered. Yeah. you know, and I think it must be that the way, you know, human it must be that the way, you know, human it must be that the way, you know, human societies evolved and cultures evolved societies evolved and cultures evolved societies evolved and cultures evolved that really took us away from that. And that really took us away from that. And that really took us away from that. And so there had to be some sort of, you so there had to be some sort of, you so there had to be some sort of, you know, track of training to help us just know, track of training to help us just know, track of training to help us just rediscover what's already here about our rediscover what's already here about our rediscover what's already here about our own nature, about our own makeup. own nature, about our own makeup. own nature, about our own makeup. >> Do you think meditation is for everyone? >> Do you think meditation is for everyone? >> Do you think meditation is for everyone? [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> Yeah, that's a great question. I mean >> Yeah, that's a great question. I mean >> Yeah, that's a great question. I mean what I was taught by some of my teachers what I was taught by some of my teachers what I was taught by some of my teachers was that if you look at it from a mental was that if you look at it from a mental was that if you look at it from a mental health lens um if it's really if there health lens um if it's really if there health lens um if it's really if there are serious mental really severe mental are serious mental really severe mental are serious mental really severe mental health challenges you know schizophrenia health challenges you know schizophrenia health challenges you know schizophrenia and psychopathy and so on it it may not and psychopathy and so on it it may not and psychopathy and so on it it may not be the right prescription but for more be the right prescription but for more be the right prescription but for more common mental health challenges like common mental health challenges like common mental health challenges like anxiety mild to moderate depression it's anxiety mild to moderate depression it's anxiety mild to moderate depression it's it's I think it's there's so much it's I think it's there's so much it's I think it's there's so much research into it now the benefits research into it now the benefits research into it now the benefits mindfulness often being added to some mindfulness often being added to some mindfulness often being added to some kind of therapeutic methodology as well, kind of therapeutic methodology as well, kind of therapeutic methodology as well, like mindfulness-based cognitive like mindfulness-based cognitive like mindfulness-based cognitive behavior therapy, for example. It's got behavior therapy, for example. It's got behavior therapy, for example. It's got a great track record, you know, of a great track record, you know, of a great track record, you know, of really boosting the therapy. really boosting the therapy. really boosting the therapy. >> Yeah. I mean, some people will say >> Yeah. I mean, some people will say >> Yeah. I mean, some people will say though, Henry, that meditation is not though, Henry, that meditation is not though, Henry, that meditation is not for them. They'll say, for them. They'll say, for them. They'll say, >> "Well, I tried it, you know, um, but >> "Well, I tried it, you know, um, but >> "Well, I tried it, you know, um, but it's not for me. Running is my it's not for me. Running is my it's not for me. Running is my meditation. Walking is my meditation." meditation. Walking is my meditation." meditation. Walking is my meditation." Or some version of that. Yes. Or some version of that. Yes. Or some version of that. Yes. >> When you hear people say that, what's >> When you hear people say that, what's >> When you hear people say that, what's your perspective? your perspective? your perspective? >> Yeah. Look, I I really I don't feel I >> Yeah. Look, I I really I don't feel I >> Yeah. Look, I I really I don't feel I have to tell everybody you got to do have to tell everybody you got to do have to tell everybody you got to do this. You know, I can just share, you this. You know, I can just share, you this. You know, I can just share, you know, my own story and the stories of know, my own story and the stories of know, my own story and the stories of many people that I've I've worked with many people that I've I've worked with many people that I've I've worked with and trained, you know, helped help with and trained, you know, helped help with and trained, you know, helped help with their meditation practice. Um, I think their meditation practice. Um, I think their meditation practice. Um, I think honestly anything that somebody's honestly anything that somebody's honestly anything that somebody's finding they can do that helps them feel finding they can do that helps them feel finding they can do that helps them feel more alive, more centered in their own more alive, more centered in their own more alive, more centered in their own being, fantastic. And those were I would being, fantastic. And those were I would being, fantastic. And those were I would call those sort of meditative qualities call those sort of meditative qualities call those sort of meditative qualities that you definitely people get. I that you definitely people get. I that you definitely people get. I remember working with a massage remember working with a massage remember working with a massage therapist and she was like every time therapist and she was like every time therapist and she was like every time I'm doing a massage it's like a I'm doing a massage it's like a I'm doing a massage it's like a meditation. meditation. meditation. >> So that's that's great. You know runners >> So that's that's great. You know runners >> So that's that's great. You know runners long distance runner ultra runners long distance runner ultra runners long distance runner ultra runners they're definitely getting into a they're definitely getting into a they're definitely getting into a meditative state. meditative state. meditative state. Yet there's something particular about Yet there's something particular about Yet there's something particular about not doing anything. Yeah. Being truly not doing anything. Yeah. Being truly not doing anything. Yeah. Being truly still and quiet. There is something I still and quiet. There is something I still and quiet. There is something I think a little bit special about that. think a little bit special about that. think a little bit special about that. Now on that side of like people saying Now on that side of like people saying Now on that side of like people saying I'm not is I'm not built for it when I I'm not is I'm not built for it when I I'm not is I'm not built for it when I try to do it. I just thinking all the try to do it. I just thinking all the try to do it. I just thinking all the time. Well that's exactly that's exactly time. Well that's exactly that's exactly time. Well that's exactly that's exactly why we have a practice like meditation why we have a practice like meditation why we have a practice like meditation is because all our minds naturally do is because all our minds naturally do is because all our minds naturally do that. You know this this is this was that. You know this this is this was that. You know this this is this was established actually 1924 by a German established actually 1924 by a German established actually 1924 by a German psychologist that came up with this term psychologist that came up with this term psychologist that came up with this term default mode. Yeah, default mode. Yeah, default mode. Yeah, >> he invented the EKG where you can scan >> he invented the EKG where you can scan >> he invented the EKG where you can scan the brain for electrical impulses the brain for electrical impulses the brain for electrical impulses >> and he was expecting that if people just >> and he was expecting that if people just >> and he was expecting that if people just sat down not engaged in an activity sat down not engaged in an activity sat down not engaged in an activity >> it would all go quiet and it didn't. It >> it would all go quiet and it didn't. It >> it would all go quiet and it didn't. It was all the brain was very active and he was all the brain was very active and he was all the brain was very active and he called it the default mode that when called it the default mode that when called it the default mode that when people aren't engaged in an outward task people aren't engaged in an outward task people aren't engaged in an outward task their brains become active with thinking their brains become active with thinking their brains become active with thinking and usually it's thinking about the past and usually it's thinking about the past and usually it's thinking about the past and the future. It could be some trace and the future. It could be some trace and the future. It could be some trace of anxiety about the future, some trace of anxiety about the future, some trace of anxiety about the future, some trace of regret about the past. The mind is of regret about the past. The mind is of regret about the past. The mind is really good at time traveling, you know, really good at time traveling, you know, really good at time traveling, you know, and and so but that's that's actually and and so but that's that's actually and and so but that's that's actually true for all of us. And in a way, that's true for all of us. And in a way, that's true for all of us. And in a way, that's that's the reason to meditate. It's not that's the reason to meditate. It's not that's the reason to meditate. It's not it's not just to discover that your mind it's not just to discover that your mind it's not just to discover that your mind does that doesn't mean you can't do it. does that doesn't mean you can't do it. does that doesn't mean you can't do it. It's actually the reason it do and and It's actually the reason it do and and It's actually the reason it do and and actually good on you for realizing that actually good on you for realizing that actually good on you for realizing that because that's sort of the that's the because that's sort of the that's the because that's sort of the that's the first threshold is recognizing what my first threshold is recognizing what my first threshold is recognizing what my mind is actually doing and rather than mind is actually doing and rather than mind is actually doing and rather than just being blindly sort of led by my just being blindly sort of led by my just being blindly sort of led by my mind just going where it goes and not mind just going where it goes and not mind just going where it goes and not even realizing it. I mean, we all know even realizing it. I mean, we all know even realizing it. I mean, we all know that experience. We we're just, you that experience. We we're just, you that experience. We we're just, you know, we we've been, you know, sitting know, we we've been, you know, sitting know, we we've been, you know, sitting on in a train or something or sitting on on in a train or something or sitting on on in a train or something or sitting on a bench or whatever. a bench or whatever. a bench or whatever. >> Suddenly realizing, oh my gosh, the last >> Suddenly realizing, oh my gosh, the last >> Suddenly realizing, oh my gosh, the last 15 minutes or listen 5 minutes, 3 15 minutes or listen 5 minutes, 3 15 minutes or listen 5 minutes, 3 minutes, I've just been on this great minutes, I've just been on this great minutes, I've just been on this great train of thought. train of thought. train of thought. >> Totally. That's that's totally natural >> Totally. That's that's totally natural >> Totally. That's that's totally natural and it's okay. and it's okay. and it's okay. >> But we can learn to be still and quiet >> But we can learn to be still and quiet >> But we can learn to be still and quiet and recognize that process and not be and recognize that process and not be and recognize that process and not be swept away by it all the time. Yeah. swept away by it all the time. Yeah. swept away by it all the time. Yeah. So I suppose I'm just saying that that So I suppose I'm just saying that that So I suppose I'm just saying that that that kind of idea I can't meditate my that kind of idea I can't meditate my that kind of idea I can't meditate my mind's too busy. That is exactly why we mind's too busy. That is exactly why we mind's too busy. That is exactly why we meditate. Yeah. Makes a lot of sense. I meditate. Yeah. Makes a lot of sense. I meditate. Yeah. Makes a lot of sense. I mean I I am a huge fan of meditation and mean I I am a huge fan of meditation and mean I I am a huge fan of meditation and I know for me I've tried [snorts] to I know for me I've tried [snorts] to I know for me I've tried [snorts] to practice regularly at various points in practice regularly at various points in practice regularly at various points in my life with greater degrees of success my life with greater degrees of success my life with greater degrees of success at some times um compared to other at some times um compared to other at some times um compared to other times. But I would say and and you know times. But I would say and and you know times. But I would say and and you know this because I I share this with you this because I I share this with you this because I I share this with you regularly but I you know ever since regularly but I you know ever since regularly but I you know ever since using the way app your your meditation using the way app your your meditation using the way app your your meditation app I found it transformative you know I app I found it transformative you know I app I found it transformative you know I start every day with that app and I start every day with that app and I start every day with that app and I think it's absolutely fantastic and I think it's absolutely fantastic and I think it's absolutely fantastic and I feel my internal sense of calm has feel my internal sense of calm has feel my internal sense of calm has got greater since I've been meditating got greater since I've been meditating got greater since I've been meditating regularly. I feel that I'm just much regularly. I feel that I'm just much regularly. I feel that I'm just much more in tune with my internal world. more in tune with my internal world. more in tune with my internal world. And I guess that can sound quite fuzzy And I guess that can sound quite fuzzy And I guess that can sound quite fuzzy if someone doesn't really know what I'm if someone doesn't really know what I'm if someone doesn't really know what I'm talking about. But I I I think one of talking about. But I I I think one of talking about. But I I I think one of the biggest problems I see with people the biggest problems I see with people the biggest problems I see with people these days is that they are just not these days is that they are just not these days is that they are just not able to pay attention to what's going on able to pay attention to what's going on able to pay attention to what's going on inside. Everything's outward. It's inside. Everything's outward. It's inside. Everything's outward. It's emails and social media and news emails and social media and news emails and social media and news headlines and what are people around me headlines and what are people around me headlines and what are people around me saying? It's it's always consuming stuff saying? It's it's always consuming stuff saying? It's it's always consuming stuff from the outside. from the outside. from the outside. So there's never any time to listen to So there's never any time to listen to So there's never any time to listen to what's going on on the inside. And as what's going on on the inside. And as what's going on on the inside. And as you already mentioned, suddenly if we you already mentioned, suddenly if we you already mentioned, suddenly if we stop that consumption of things from the stop that consumption of things from the stop that consumption of things from the outside, we're not used to being with outside, we're not used to being with outside, we're not used to being with all of the noise on the inside. And so all of the noise on the inside. And so all of the noise on the inside. And so we we shy away from it. Go, ah, this is we we shy away from it. Go, ah, this is we we shy away from it. Go, ah, this is too uncomfortable. like get let me get too uncomfortable. like get let me get too uncomfortable. like get let me get me back on Instagram or get me another me back on Instagram or get me another me back on Instagram or get me another podcast, get me something else to podcast, get me something else to podcast, get me something else to distracts distracts distracts from the internal chatter. But I think from the internal chatter. But I think from the internal chatter. But I think there's something incredibly liberating there's something incredibly liberating there's something incredibly liberating when you know you can just be present when you know you can just be present when you know you can just be present with your own thoughts and you don't with your own thoughts and you don't with your own thoughts and you don't need anything to be distracted from need anything to be distracted from need anything to be distracted from there. There's a real power to that. there. There's a real power to that. there. There's a real power to that. Like these days, I know friends tell me, Like these days, I know friends tell me, Like these days, I know friends tell me, you know, if they're ever on a train and you know, if they're ever on a train and you know, if they're ever on a train and suddenly that their their headphones are suddenly that their their headphones are suddenly that their their headphones are out of battery, out of battery, out of battery, they're so stressed. [laughter] It's they're so stressed. [laughter] It's they're so stressed. [laughter] It's like, "Oh no, I was going to watch this like, "Oh no, I was going to watch this like, "Oh no, I was going to watch this on Netflix. I was going to listen to on Netflix. I was going to listen to on Netflix. I was going to listen to that podcast or oh my god, what am I that podcast or oh my god, what am I that podcast or oh my god, what am I going to do now that I can't access all going to do now that I can't access all going to do now that I can't access all of this information?" of this information?" of this information?" >> That is what I call a a toxic reliance. >> That is what I call a a toxic reliance. >> That is what I call a a toxic reliance. You know, if nothing wrong with enjoying You know, if nothing wrong with enjoying You know, if nothing wrong with enjoying Netflix while you're on a on a train or Netflix while you're on a on a train or Netflix while you're on a on a train or listening to a podcast, that's all listening to a podcast, that's all listening to a podcast, that's all great. great. great. >> And we should be able to do those >> And we should be able to do those >> And we should be able to do those journeys without anything as well. journeys without anything as well. journeys without anything as well. >> Yes. Yes. >> Yes. Yes. >> Yes. Yes. >> And if you can't, >> And if you can't, >> And if you can't, >> there's a real opportunity for growth >> there's a real opportunity for growth >> there's a real opportunity for growth there, isn't there? there, isn't there? there, isn't there? >> Yeah, there totally is. It's beautifully >> Yeah, there totally is. It's beautifully >> Yeah, there totally is. It's beautifully put, man. You're such a great speaker put, man. You're such a great speaker put, man. You're such a great speaker because he said that's exactly the other because he said that's exactly the other because he said that's exactly the other point I was about to I was about to say point I was about to I was about to say point I was about to I was about to say something about like it's not just about something about like it's not just about something about like it's not just about the thinking. It's also about the the thinking. It's also about the the thinking. It's also about the emotional life we're having to somehow emotional life we're having to somehow emotional life we're having to somehow meditation it's like a it's like a path meditation it's like a it's like a path meditation it's like a it's like a path back to a slightly deeper version of who back to a slightly deeper version of who back to a slightly deeper version of who we really are slightly deeper self. we really are slightly deeper self. we really are slightly deeper self. >> And to get down to that we usually have >> And to get down to that we usually have >> And to get down to that we usually have to go through a little bit of a sort of to go through a little bit of a sort of to go through a little bit of a sort of barrier of discomfort. And it's barrier of discomfort. And it's barrier of discomfort. And it's emotional discomfort. Exactly as you say emotional discomfort. Exactly as you say emotional discomfort. Exactly as you say like often people reach for the phone or like often people reach for the phone or like often people reach for the phone or some reach for the fridge you know you some reach for the fridge you know you some reach for the fridge you know you know because there's inner discomfort know because there's inner discomfort know because there's inner discomfort and I I mean I'm very sympathetic to and I I mean I'm very sympathetic to and I I mean I'm very sympathetic to that I've done it a lot myself I used to that I've done it a lot myself I used to that I've done it a lot myself I used to have this really difficult skin have this really difficult skin have this really difficult skin condition all my early life that itched condition all my early life that itched condition all my early life that itched like mad it was painful and I wanted like mad it was painful and I wanted like mad it was painful and I wanted anything that would distract me from it anything that would distract me from it anything that would distract me from it >> you know and there was a lot of >> you know and there was a lot of >> you know and there was a lot of emotional distress around it as well emotional distress around it as well emotional distress around it as well again any I [clears throat] used to again any I [clears throat] used to again any I [clears throat] used to listen to music I just put on headphones listen to music I just put on headphones listen to music I just put on headphones and get lost in music that I loved and get lost in music that I loved and get lost in music that I loved because it was so uncomfortable just to because it was so uncomfortable just to because it was so uncomfortable just to be me. And but actually if we learn to be me. And but actually if we learn to be me. And but actually if we learn to let ourselves be as we are, if we learn let ourselves be as we are, if we learn let ourselves be as we are, if we learn to not be saying I shouldn't feel this to not be saying I shouldn't feel this to not be saying I shouldn't feel this way, but instead approach our emotional way, but instead approach our emotional way, but instead approach our emotional challenges with tenderness, you know, challenges with tenderness, you know, challenges with tenderness, you know, basically become more vulnerable that we basically become more vulnerable that we basically become more vulnerable that we don't have to be feeling great all the don't have to be feeling great all the don't have to be feeling great all the time. actually it's it's part of the time. actually it's it's part of the time. actually it's it's part of the human experience to have difficult human experience to have difficult human experience to have difficult feelings. It's not a it's not a it feelings. It's not a it's not a it feelings. It's not a it's not a it shouldn't really be a rare or you know shouldn't really be a rare or you know shouldn't really be a rare or you know problematic thing and we're so problematic thing and we're so problematic thing and we're so conditioned conditioned conditioned you know no doubt social media has you know no doubt social media has you know no doubt social media has amplified this but I think I think amplified this but I think I think amplified this but I think I think throughout our history probably we've throughout our history probably we've throughout our history probably we've been very conditioned that it's bad for been very conditioned that it's bad for been very conditioned that it's bad for example to feel sad but sometimes it's example to feel sad but sometimes it's example to feel sad but sometimes it's totally appropriate to feel sad totally appropriate to feel sad totally appropriate to feel sad >> and beautiful >> and beautiful >> and beautiful >> and be exactly >> and be exactly >> and be exactly >> there can be a real pleasure in that >> there can be a real pleasure in that >> there can be a real pleasure in that sort of deep sense of sadness. Come sort of deep sense of sadness. Come sort of deep sense of sadness. Come back. back. back. >> Exactly. Is it makes us more tender, you >> Exactly. Is it makes us more tender, you >> Exactly. Is it makes us more tender, you know, and our hearts start to open and know, and our hearts start to open and know, and our hearts start to open and our lives get richer and they also get our lives get richer and they also get our lives get richer and they also get more kind of authentic if we're sort of more kind of authentic if we're sort of more kind of authentic if we're sort of committed to thinking we're trying to committed to thinking we're trying to committed to thinking we're trying to live up to some standard that is the live up to some standard that is the live up to some standard that is the acknowledged way we're supposed to be. I acknowledged way we're supposed to be. I acknowledged way we're supposed to be. I I I suffered from this a lot myself as a I I suffered from this a lot myself as a I I suffered from this a lot myself as a young man. I was so ashamed of not young man. I was so ashamed of not young man. I was so ashamed of not feeling good, you know, when I and then feeling good, you know, when I and then feeling good, you know, when I and then I'd feel ashamed of feeling ashamed, you I'd feel ashamed of feeling ashamed, you I'd feel ashamed of feeling ashamed, you know, and and actually what a blessing know, and and actually what a blessing know, and and actually what a blessing it was. It was really when I started it was. It was really when I started it was. It was really when I started meditating in my early to mid20s, I meditating in my early to mid20s, I meditating in my early to mid20s, I gradually sort of softened and learned gradually sort of softened and learned gradually sort of softened and learned to be with my own difficult emotions a to be with my own difficult emotions a to be with my own difficult emotions a bit more and and that naturally brings bit more and and that naturally brings bit more and and that naturally brings up more compassion for oneself and for up more compassion for oneself and for up more compassion for oneself and for others. It it tenderizes us in a way others. It it tenderizes us in a way others. It it tenderizes us in a way that's beautiful. that's beautiful. that's beautiful. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know, and and it's not I think it's >> You know, and and it's not I think it's >> You know, and and it's not I think it's beautiful in itself, but it's also beautiful in itself, but it's also beautiful in itself, but it's also beautiful because it's more real. beautiful because it's more real. beautiful because it's more real. >> We're actually becoming more real about >> We're actually becoming more real about >> We're actually becoming more real about our life and who we are, not less real, our life and who we are, not less real, our life and who we are, not less real, you know, not a life on show for others, you know, not a life on show for others, you know, not a life on show for others, >> but actually something that can be >> but actually something that can be >> but actually something that can be really helpful for others to witness. really helpful for others to witness. really helpful for others to witness. >> This person's being authentic. They're >> This person's being authentic. They're >> This person's being authentic. They're not pretending that they always feel not pretending that they always feel not pretending that they always feel great. and you know and it and that great. and you know and it and that great. and you know and it and that actually is a I think that's a gift for actually is a I think that's a gift for actually is a I think that's a gift for others others others >> because it helps them soften and be more >> because it helps them soften and be more >> because it helps them soften and be more vulnerable, be more honest with vulnerable, be more honest with vulnerable, be more honest with themselves and I mean I believe there's themselves and I mean I believe there's themselves and I mean I believe there's probably many paths to that but probably many paths to that but probably many paths to that but meditation is a big one meditation is a big one meditation is a big one >> and a good one and it's you know it's >> and a good one and it's you know it's >> and a good one and it's you know it's cheap you know all you have to do is sit cheap you know all you have to do is sit cheap you know all you have to do is sit still. still. still. >> Exactly. Um, >> Exactly. Um, >> Exactly. Um, the beauty and sadness I think is really the beauty and sadness I think is really the beauty and sadness I think is really obvious for people if they think about obvious for people if they think about obvious for people if they think about some of their favorite songs, right? some of their favorite songs, right? some of their favorite songs, right? Because some of the most awesome, Because some of the most awesome, Because some of the most awesome, deeply resonant songs of all time come deeply resonant songs of all time come deeply resonant songs of all time come from abject pain. You know, people's from abject pain. You know, people's from abject pain. You know, people's hearts have literally hearts have literally hearts have literally >> broken open. >> broken open. >> broken open. >> They don't know what to do. They pour >> They don't know what to do. They pour >> They don't know what to do. They pour themselves into their music and the themselves into their music and the themselves into their music and the words and the lyrics and we listen and words and the lyrics and we listen and words and the lyrics and we listen and we feel connected to humanity. We feel we feel connected to humanity. We feel we feel connected to humanity. We feel that someone else has expressed in words that someone else has expressed in words that someone else has expressed in words >> a feeling that we may have had. >> a feeling that we may have had. >> a feeling that we may have had. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And so there is something really >> And so there is something really >> And so there is something really beautiful about that. I do think that beautiful about that. I do think that beautiful about that. I do think that there's something though about there's something though about there's something though about meditation that seems to confuse people, Henry. that seems to confuse people, Henry. Right. I'm on board. Right. You Right. I'm on board. Right. You Right. I'm on board. Right. You obviously are. You're a Zen master. You obviously are. You're a Zen master. You obviously are. You're a Zen master. You teach meditation. and you've done this teach meditation. and you've done this teach meditation. and you've done this for many many years. You've created the for many many years. You've created the for many many years. You've created the way app. way app. way app. You know the benefits. You've You know the benefits. You've You know the benefits. You've experienced the benefits. But when I go experienced the benefits. But when I go experienced the benefits. But when I go and talk to people and I talk to the and talk to people and I talk to the and talk to people and I talk to the public, there is this perception that public, there is this perception that public, there is this perception that yeah, but it's [sighs] yeah, but it's [sighs] yeah, but it's [sighs] it's not for me, you know, I I've tried it's not for me, you know, I I've tried it's not for me, you know, I I've tried it. I think I'm doing it wrong. And so I it. I think I'm doing it wrong. And so I it. I think I'm doing it wrong. And so I kind of feel there's a real kind of feel there's a real kind of feel there's a real misunderstanding about what meditation misunderstanding about what meditation misunderstanding about what meditation is. And I was thinking this morning, is. And I was thinking this morning, is. And I was thinking this morning, Henry, whether there's something here to Henry, whether there's something here to Henry, whether there's something here to do with a western perspective versus a do with a western perspective versus a do with a western perspective versus a more eastern perspective. I don't know, more eastern perspective. I don't know, more eastern perspective. I don't know, perhaps you could elaborate, but perhaps you could elaborate, but perhaps you could elaborate, but >> for example, a more western perspective would say, a more western perspective would say, "Hey, Henry, what are the benefit? What "Hey, Henry, what are the benefit? What "Hey, Henry, what are the benefit? What are the proven benefits of meditation? are the proven benefits of meditation? are the proven benefits of meditation? What has the science shown?" Oh, right. What has the science shown?" Oh, right. What has the science shown?" Oh, right. So, it helps to grow this part of the So, it helps to grow this part of the So, it helps to grow this part of the brain. It helps you concentrate more, brain. It helps you concentrate more, brain. It helps you concentrate more, helps you focus more. Okay, great. Now I helps you focus more. Okay, great. Now I helps you focus more. Okay, great. Now I get why I should be doing it. Nothing get why I should be doing it. Nothing get why I should be doing it. Nothing wrong with that. It's just one way of wrong with that. It's just one way of wrong with that. It's just one way of looking at it. Whereas I guess because I looking at it. Whereas I guess because I looking at it. Whereas I guess because I grew up in an Indian family, grew up in an Indian family, grew up in an Indian family, >> I don't feel that we would need proof of >> I don't feel that we would need proof of >> I don't feel that we would need proof of the benefits of meditation. We're born the benefits of meditation. We're born the benefits of meditation. We're born almost knowing that meditation is almost knowing that meditation is almost knowing that meditation is really, really good for us. I remember really, really good for us. I remember really, really good for us. I remember seeing my granddad, my mom's father. He seeing my granddad, my mom's father. He seeing my granddad, my mom's father. He would meditate 20 minutes in the would meditate 20 minutes in the would meditate 20 minutes in the morning, 20 minutes in the evening, morning, 20 minutes in the evening, morning, 20 minutes in the evening, always, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. always, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. always, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. It wasn't something he did because he'd It wasn't something he did because he'd It wasn't something he did because he'd seen the latest scientific study. seen the latest scientific study. seen the latest scientific study. >> It's just he knew that my experience of >> It's just he knew that my experience of >> It's just he knew that my experience of life is much more real and connected life is much more real and connected life is much more real and connected when I'm doing my 40 minutes of when I'm doing my 40 minutes of when I'm doing my 40 minutes of meditation a day. So, do do you see what meditation a day. So, do do you see what meditation a day. So, do do you see what I'm getting at? So I kind of feel in the I'm getting at? So I kind of feel in the I'm getting at? So I kind of feel in the west you might need the proof before you west you might need the proof before you west you might need the proof before you invest in the practice whereas I think invest in the practice whereas I think invest in the practice whereas I think some eastern traditions some eastern traditions some eastern traditions >> just understand >> just understand >> just understand >> that this is a really good thing to do. >> that this is a really good thing to do. >> that this is a really good thing to do. >> Yeah I I I totally think you're you're >> Yeah I I I totally think you're you're >> Yeah I I I totally think you're you're on to something there. It's like on to something there. It's like on to something there. It's like basically yeah the western idea is like basically yeah the western idea is like basically yeah the western idea is like it's a technique that I can use. It's a it's a technique that I can use. It's a it's a technique that I can use. It's a tool I get to use. Whereas the deeper tool I get to use. Whereas the deeper tool I get to use. Whereas the deeper view and this might be more eastern but view and this might be more eastern but view and this might be more eastern but I think it's coming into the west as I think it's coming into the west as I think it's coming into the west as well is that it's actually it's not that well is that it's actually it's not that well is that it's actually it's not that it's a pathway to a truer life to a to a it's a pathway to a truer life to a to a it's a pathway to a truer life to a to a to a truer fuller discovery of who and to a truer fuller discovery of who and to a truer fuller discovery of who and what we really are that is automatically what we really are that is automatically what we really are that is automatically connected with in the end everything you connected with in the end everything you connected with in the end everything you know that's that's the deeper view of it know that's that's the deeper view of it know that's that's the deeper view of it and I I totally understand this there's and I I totally understand this there's and I I totally understand this there's a lot these days about mindfulness as a lot these days about mindfulness as a lot these days about mindfulness as another element in someone's another element in someone's another element in someone's optimization regime. optimization regime. optimization regime. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. [laughter] >> And I'm sympathetic to that. I totally I >> And I'm sympathetic to that. I totally I >> And I'm sympathetic to that. I totally I think, you know, there's nothing think, you know, there's nothing think, you know, there's nothing actually wrong with that. It's just that actually wrong with that. It's just that actually wrong with that. It's just that it's very incomplete, you know, and if it's very incomplete, you know, and if it's very incomplete, you know, and if you have that mindset, you're all the you have that mindset, you're all the you have that mindset, you're all the more likely to get frustrated with it more likely to get frustrated with it more likely to get frustrated with it because like, well, in order to get because like, well, in order to get because like, well, in order to get these benefits that I'm expecting, I these benefits that I'm expecting, I these benefits that I'm expecting, I want it to work right away, want it to work right away, want it to work right away, >> you know, and and I want to I want to I >> you know, and and I want to I want to I >> you know, and and I want to I want to I want to be able to do it so that I'm want to be able to do it so that I'm want to be able to do it so that I'm doing exactly what I'm supposed to do, doing exactly what I'm supposed to do, doing exactly what I'm supposed to do, having the given results that I'm I'm having the given results that I'm I'm having the given results that I'm I'm expecting that I'm supposed to have, expecting that I'm supposed to have, expecting that I'm supposed to have, >> and the medium-term results as well as a >> and the medium-term results as well as a >> and the medium-term results as well as a result of that. In other words, I'm result of that. In other words, I'm result of that. In other words, I'm going to sit down, know precisely what going to sit down, know precisely what going to sit down, know precisely what to do, do it immediately, get benefits, to do, do it immediately, get benefits, to do, do it immediately, get benefits, and perhaps there's some longerterm and perhaps there's some longerterm and perhaps there's some longerterm benefits as well. But actually, benefits as well. But actually, benefits as well. But actually, almost it's almost almost it's almost almost it's almost back to front. There's something about back to front. There's something about back to front. There's something about this process of releasing our hold on this process of releasing our hold on this process of releasing our hold on the particular benefits we want, the particular benefits we want, the particular benefits we want, actually letting go of that. I mean it's actually letting go of that. I mean it's actually letting go of that. I mean it's paradoxical. Yeah. paradoxical. Yeah. paradoxical. Yeah. >> But we're going to get the benefits we >> But we're going to get the benefits we >> But we're going to get the benefits we want in meditation by actually want in meditation by actually want in meditation by actually relinquishing some of the hold the relinquishing some of the hold the relinquishing some of the hold the gripping after reaching for the benefits gripping after reaching for the benefits gripping after reaching for the benefits that we want. It's like I I don't know that we want. It's like I I don't know that we want. It's like I I don't know if I'm explaining this kind. It's like if I'm explaining this kind. It's like if I'm explaining this kind. It's like because it teaches us a certain kind of because it teaches us a certain kind of because it teaches us a certain kind of patience because it helps patience grow patience because it helps patience grow patience because it helps patience grow in us. Because it helps a kind of in us. Because it helps a kind of in us. Because it helps a kind of self-kindness self-kindness self-kindness grow in us actually. grow in us actually. grow in us actually. that helps us not to grasp for the that helps us not to grasp for the that helps us not to grasp for the benefits so immediately and tightly and benefits so immediately and tightly and benefits so immediately and tightly and therefore they come. It's like it's to therefore they come. It's like it's to therefore they come. It's like it's to do with backing off a bit do with backing off a bit do with backing off a bit >> and not having this rigid regime in my >> and not having this rigid regime in my >> and not having this rigid regime in my life of how I'm going to get to be the life of how I'm going to get to be the life of how I'm going to get to be the way I want to be. It's actually Yeah, way I want to be. It's actually Yeah, way I want to be. It's actually Yeah, it's it's true. There are benefits, no it's it's true. There are benefits, no it's it's true. There are benefits, no question, from having quiet time with question, from having quiet time with question, from having quiet time with yourself each day meditating. yourself each day meditating. yourself each day meditating. >> But Henry, you know, this there's so >> But Henry, you know, this there's so >> But Henry, you know, this there's so many interesting points here for me, many interesting points here for me, many interesting points here for me, right? This idea that there are right? This idea that there are right? This idea that there are benefits. Yes. And I've covered on this benefits. Yes. And I've covered on this benefits. Yes. And I've covered on this podcast in the past some of the podcast in the past some of the podcast in the past some of the neuroscience of meditation and what neuroscience of meditation and what neuroscience of meditation and what benefits have been shown. And benefits have been shown. And benefits have been shown. And the other big question I was thinking the other big question I was thinking the other big question I was thinking about this morning was about this morning was about this morning was can you really can you really can you really be taught the benefits? be taught the benefits? be taught the benefits? Like you can hear about the potential Like you can hear about the potential Like you can hear about the potential benefits but in so many ways that can benefits but in so many ways that can benefits but in so many ways that can make you frustrated because you've make you frustrated because you've make you frustrated because you've you've heard the scientific benefits of you've heard the scientific benefits of you've heard the scientific benefits of meditation. Therefore, I should do it so meditation. Therefore, I should do it so meditation. Therefore, I should do it so that I can achieve that thing that I've that I can achieve that thing that I've that I can achieve that thing that I've been told I will get if I do it been told I will get if I do it been told I will get if I do it regularly. But the most powerful way of regularly. But the most powerful way of regularly. But the most powerful way of experiencing those things is to do it experiencing those things is to do it experiencing those things is to do it regularly and naturally experience those regularly and naturally experience those regularly and naturally experience those benefits rather than be told the benefits rather than be told the benefits rather than be told the benefits. Yes, I think this this applies benefits. Yes, I think this this applies benefits. Yes, I think this this applies to many things beyond meditation, but I to many things beyond meditation, but I to many things beyond meditation, but I truly think the most important things in truly think the most important things in truly think the most important things in life life life can't really be taught from the outside. can't really be taught from the outside. can't really be taught from the outside. They have to be experienced. Yes. They They have to be experienced. Yes. They They have to be experienced. Yes. They they sort of grow from within. They they sort of grow from within. They they sort of grow from within. They ripen. It's much more like tend the new ripen. It's much more like tend the new ripen. It's much more like tend the new sapling that you've planted. Don't force sapling that you've planted. Don't force sapling that you've planted. Don't force it to grow. it to grow. it to grow. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Tend it and it will grow. Give it the >> Tend it and it will grow. Give it the >> Tend it and it will grow. Give it the right nutrients. Give it the right right nutrients. Give it the right right nutrients. Give it the right moisture and it will grow. moisture and it will grow. moisture and it will grow. >> Yeah. And it's interesting what you said >> Yeah. And it's interesting what you said >> Yeah. And it's interesting what you said about the sort of optimization culture about the sort of optimization culture about the sort of optimization culture in which we live. Like if for example in which we live. Like if for example in which we live. Like if for example you had 10 things that you could do you had 10 things that you could do you had 10 things that you could do where you could do your strength where you could do your strength where you could do your strength training, your cardio, your cold plunge, training, your cardio, your cold plunge, training, your cardio, your cold plunge, your sauna, your whatever, right? your sauna, your whatever, right? your sauna, your whatever, right? >> Some of those things you can experience >> Some of those things you can experience >> Some of those things you can experience immediate benefit from, right? So immediate benefit from, right? So immediate benefit from, right? So >> if cold plunge is your thing, and it's >> if cold plunge is your thing, and it's >> if cold plunge is your thing, and it's not everyone's thing, but let's say it not everyone's thing, but let's say it not everyone's thing, but let's say it is, you're going to feel completely is, you're going to feel completely is, you're going to feel completely different every single time you go in different every single time you go in different every single time you go in the cold water. You're going to the cold water. You're going to the cold water. You're going to experience a change afterwards. Yes. experience a change afterwards. Yes. experience a change afterwards. Yes. >> So therefore, if you have a list of five >> So therefore, if you have a list of five >> So therefore, if you have a list of five or six things to do and meditation is or six things to do and meditation is or six things to do and meditation is one of them, because you may not get one of them, because you may not get one of them, because you may not get that obvious benefit every time you that obvious benefit every time you that obvious benefit every time you meditate, the tendency might be to go, meditate, the tendency might be to go, meditate, the tendency might be to go, no, you know, I'm not I'm going to leave no, you know, I'm not I'm going to leave no, you know, I'm not I'm going to leave that one because I know I'm going to that one because I know I'm going to that one because I know I'm going to feel different if I go in the cold bath feel different if I go in the cold bath feel different if I go in the cold bath for for for 60 seconds. for for for 60 seconds. for for for 60 seconds. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> So, I think that's one potential issue. >> So, I think that's one potential issue. >> So, I think that's one potential issue. I think the other issue is that I think the other issue is that I think the other issue is that we're used to doing, right? We're a do we're used to doing, right? We're a do we're used to doing, right? We're a do do culture do culture do culture and whilst on on one level meditation is and whilst on on one level meditation is and whilst on on one level meditation is doing something you know I'm doing my doing something you know I'm doing my doing something you know I'm doing my meditation meditation meditation in another way it's not doing anything in another way it's not doing anything in another way it's not doing anything at all right and so exactly right at all right and so exactly right at all right and so exactly right >> it's kind of funny that people say they >> it's kind of funny that people say they >> it's kind of funny that people say they don't have time because the people who don't have time because the people who don't have time because the people who say they don't have time which is a lot say they don't have time which is a lot say they don't have time which is a lot of people they'll also tell you that of people they'll also tell you that of people they'll also tell you that they're too busy and they have too many they're too busy and they have too many they're too busy and they have too many things to do but meditation is not things to do but meditation is not things to do but meditation is not another thing to do meditation actually another thing to do meditation actually another thing to do meditation actually gives you more time. gives you more time. gives you more time. >> Do you know what I mean? It's >> Do you know what I mean? It's >> Do you know what I mean? It's >> it's it's a rest from all the things >> it's it's a rest from all the things >> it's it's a rest from all the things that you have to do. that you have to do. that you have to do. >> That's exactly right. It isn't another >> That's exactly right. It isn't another >> That's exactly right. It isn't another thing that you do in order to get the thing that you do in order to get the thing that you do in order to get the result that you going to get from that result that you going to get from that result that you going to get from that thing. You put it so well that you'll thing. You put it so well that you'll thing. You put it so well that you'll get the immediate benefits of the cold get the immediate benefits of the cold get the immediate benefits of the cold plunge for example or the sauna or plunge for example or the sauna or plunge for example or the sauna or whatever. whatever. whatever. >> This no it's actually letting go of that >> This no it's actually letting go of that >> This no it's actually letting go of that kind of pursuit. It's really kind of pursuit. It's really kind of pursuit. It's really paradoxical. It's counterintuitive. It's paradoxical. It's counterintuitive. It's paradoxical. It's counterintuitive. It's it's coming back to I think one way to it's coming back to I think one way to it's coming back to I think one way to think of it is it it's a it's in time it think of it is it it's a it's in time it think of it is it it's a it's in time it lets us just drop down to a deeper life lets us just drop down to a deeper life lets us just drop down to a deeper life that's already here. that's already here. that's already here. >> It's like coming back to your own true >> It's like coming back to your own true >> It's like coming back to your own true existence. It's like if you thought to existence. It's like if you thought to existence. It's like if you thought to your you know you may not want to but your you know you may not want to but your you know you may not want to but think to your deathbed you know when you think to your deathbed you know when you think to your deathbed you know when you you will be facing that ultimate you will be facing that ultimate you will be facing that ultimate frontier where whatever comes next it frontier where whatever comes next it frontier where whatever comes next it won't be this you know you you'll be won't be this you know you you'll be won't be this you know you you'll be you'll be relinquishing this kind of you'll be relinquishing this kind of you'll be relinquishing this kind of living you know well what about that you living you know well what about that you living you know well what about that you know what if you could do every day some know what if you could do every day some know what if you could do every day some little thing that it isn't exactly doing little thing that it isn't exactly doing little thing that it isn't exactly doing that acknowledged the fact that Your that acknowledged the fact that Your that acknowledged the fact that Your life is finite in this way. This kind of life is finite in this way. This kind of life is finite in this way. This kind of life is finite. What if you are actually life is finite. What if you are actually life is finite. What if you are actually allowing yourself to recognize mortality allowing yourself to recognize mortality allowing yourself to recognize mortality a little bit every day and tasting a little bit every day and tasting a little bit every day and tasting the fact that right now you're alive. the fact that right now you're alive. the fact that right now you're alive. Rather than I'm doing X to accomplish Y Rather than I'm doing X to accomplish Y Rather than I'm doing X to accomplish Y and then I'm going to do this thing and and then I'm going to do this thing and and then I'm going to do this thing and this thing and this thing to accomplish this thing and this thing to accomplish this thing and this thing to accomplish these things. This is almost like these things. This is almost like these things. This is almost like letting go of accomplishing. letting go of accomplishing. letting go of accomplishing. It's like, It's like, It's like, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> I'm actually gonna What am I before I've >> I'm actually gonna What am I before I've >> I'm actually gonna What am I before I've even thought about accomplishing even thought about accomplishing even thought about accomplishing anything? What am I that doesn't anything? What am I that doesn't anything? What am I that doesn't actually need to do anything? I'm so actually need to do anything? I'm so actually need to do anything? I'm so habituated at doing. habituated at doing. habituated at doing. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But that doesn't mean that I've lost >> But that doesn't mean that I've lost >> But that doesn't mean that I've lost something in who I really am that something in who I really am that something in who I really am that doesn't need to do anything. Yeah. You doesn't need to do anything. Yeah. You doesn't need to do anything. Yeah. You could say, well, it needs to breathe. It could say, well, it needs to breathe. It could say, well, it needs to breathe. It needs to consume it. It needs to have needs to consume it. It needs to have needs to consume it. It needs to have water. True. But the actual very bare water. True. But the actual very bare water. True. But the actual very bare sort of bones of your being sort of bones of your being sort of bones of your being >> before you're doing, you know, that is >> before you're doing, you know, that is >> before you're doing, you know, that is available. available. available. It's always available. So, so I think we It's always available. So, so I think we It's always available. So, so I think we sort of almost have to start meditating sort of almost have to start meditating sort of almost have to start meditating with some idea that we're doing it to do with some idea that we're doing it to do with some idea that we're doing it to do it. And we're doing it because it has it. And we're doing it because it has it. And we're doing it because it has benefits that we one way or another benefits that we one way or another benefits that we one way or another through science or through word of through science or through word of through science or through word of mouth, we trust mouth, we trust mouth, we trust >> that they will bring benefits. There's a >> that they will bring benefits. There's a >> that they will bring benefits. There's a little bit of trust. You know, maybe little bit of trust. You know, maybe little bit of trust. You know, maybe there has to be a little bit or at least there has to be a little bit or at least there has to be a little bit or at least curiosity. I'm going to give it a try. curiosity. I'm going to give it a try. curiosity. I'm going to give it a try. But, you know, if we if we if we're But, you know, if we if we if we're But, you know, if we if we if we're convinced enough to give it a try, convinced enough to give it a try, convinced enough to give it a try, >> you you know, you then need to give it >> you you know, you then need to give it >> you you know, you then need to give it say a month of doing it nearly every say a month of doing it nearly every say a month of doing it nearly every day. You know, you can't do a test on day. You know, you can't do a test on day. You know, you can't do a test on one only. Yeah. one only. Yeah. one only. Yeah. >> That's useful. So if if someone does >> That's useful. So if if someone does >> That's useful. So if if someone does want to want to want to >> experiment with bringing meditation into >> experiment with bringing meditation into >> experiment with bringing meditation into their life, you would say you've got to their life, you would say you've got to their life, you would say you've got to make that sort of commitment to yourself make that sort of commitment to yourself make that sort of commitment to yourself that you that you that you >> you're going to sit down >> you're going to sit down >> you're going to sit down >> and meditate daily before you start >> and meditate daily before you start >> and meditate daily before you start assessing assessing assessing >> that's right. >> that's right. >> that's right. >> Is this for me? Is it any good? What >> Is this for me? Is it any good? What >> Is this for me? Is it any good? What benefits am I getting from it or not? benefits am I getting from it or not? benefits am I getting from it or not? >> Unless you've done it for 30 to 40 days, >> Unless you've done it for 30 to 40 days, >> Unless you've done it for 30 to 40 days, don't even don't even don't even >> consider that. Basically, I think some >> consider that. Basically, I think some >> consider that. Basically, I think some go well I'll try it for a few days and go well I'll try it for a few days and go well I'll try it for a few days and see. see. see. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> But you're sort of saying, "Well, >> But you're sort of saying, "Well, >> But you're sort of saying, "Well, >> probably not." >> probably not." >> probably not." >> Yeah. I mean, like like with some >> Yeah. I mean, like like with some >> Yeah. I mean, like like with some supplements or something, you're not supplements or something, you're not supplements or something, you're not going to know in a couple of days if going to know in a couple of days if going to know in a couple of days if they're really what you need, you know, they're really what you need, you know, they're really what you need, you know, or I mean, there's various other health or I mean, there's various other health or I mean, there's various other health comparisons we could make that it's not comparisons we could make that it's not comparisons we could make that it's not an instant thing. This is a bit like an instant thing. This is a bit like an instant thing. This is a bit like that. But you know the the reality is that. But you know the the reality is that. But you know the the reality is that the part of you that is the nondoer that the part of you that is the nondoer that the part of you that is the nondoer you know that that doesn't need to do you know that that doesn't need to do you know that that doesn't need to do that's already okay that's already okay that's already okay >> that part >> that part >> that part this is how I this is a weird way to say this is how I this is a weird way to say this is how I this is a weird way to say it but that part recognizes the value of it but that part recognizes the value of it but that part recognizes the value of meditation already meditation already meditation already we just it's slightly under the surface we just it's slightly under the surface we just it's slightly under the surface and it emerges more over time and it emerges more over time and it emerges more over time >> yeah and [clears throat] I guess a >> yeah and [clears throat] I guess a >> yeah and [clears throat] I guess a question I have for you is having come question I have for you is having come question I have for you is having come across across across in person probably tens of thousands of in person probably tens of thousands of in person probably tens of thousands of meditators now over the course of your meditators now over the course of your meditators now over the course of your career would you say there's a pattern career would you say there's a pattern career would you say there's a pattern in terms of what you've seen because I in terms of what you've seen because I in terms of what you've seen because I guess some people will come to guess some people will come to guess some people will come to meditation because they're really meditation because they're really meditation because they're really struggling you know they're depressed struggling you know they're depressed struggling you know they're depressed they don't like the way that they feel they don't like the way that they feel they don't like the way that they feel so they're looking for something to in so they're looking for something to in so they're looking for something to in inverted commas fix them inverted commas fix them inverted commas fix them >> right >> right >> right >> whereas you could also use it if you >> whereas you could also use it if you >> whereas you could also use it if you know like I've chosen to meditate ate know like I've chosen to meditate ate know like I've chosen to meditate ate not to get me away from something I not to get me away from something I not to get me away from something I don't like don't like don't like but to experience life more fully. but to experience life more fully. but to experience life more fully. >> So are people who meditate regularly do >> So are people who meditate regularly do >> So are people who meditate regularly do you find that they tend to be calmer you find that they tend to be calmer you find that they tend to be calmer less reactive have a greater sense of less reactive have a greater sense of less reactive have a greater sense of inner peace or does it sort of depend on inner peace or does it sort of depend on inner peace or does it sort of depend on why you started to engage with why you started to engage with why you started to engage with meditation in the first place? meditation in the first place? meditation in the first place? >> Yeah that's a great question. I mean >> Yeah that's a great question. I mean >> Yeah that's a great question. I mean let's say I would say that overall yes let's say I would say that overall yes let's say I would say that overall yes everybody's moving towards a calmer less everybody's moving towards a calmer less everybody's moving towards a calmer less reactive more appreciative way of being reactive more appreciative way of being reactive more appreciative way of being more alive I would say meditation more alive I would say meditation more alive I would say meditation actually increases our capacity for life actually increases our capacity for life actually increases our capacity for life I mean this live more is actually a very I mean this live more is actually a very I mean this live more is actually a very appropriate uh slogan really or catch appropriate uh slogan really or catch appropriate uh slogan really or catch word for it actually gives you more life word for it actually gives you more life word for it actually gives you more life >> partly because you're just not lost in >> partly because you're just not lost in >> partly because you're just not lost in the impetus, the momentum of, you know, the impetus, the momentum of, you know, the impetus, the momentum of, you know, the the daily grind of what I've got to the the daily grind of what I've got to the the daily grind of what I've got to do. 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Explore the new Pelaton Crossraining Bike Plus by clicking on Crossraining Bike Plus by clicking on Crossraining Bike Plus by clicking on the link below or by scanning the QR the link below or by scanning the QR the link below or by scanning the QR code on screen. People obviously come code on screen. People obviously come code on screen. People obviously come into it for different reasons, a whole into it for different reasons, a whole into it for different reasons, a whole range of reasons. Broadly speaking, it's range of reasons. Broadly speaking, it's range of reasons. Broadly speaking, it's somewhere between, you know, I'm having somewhere between, you know, I'm having somewhere between, you know, I'm having a miserable time. I want to be less a miserable time. I want to be less a miserable time. I want to be less miserable. And my life's great and I'm miserable. And my life's great and I'm miserable. And my life's great and I'm curious. curious. curious. >> Yeah. I I wanna I've heard that you can >> Yeah. I I wanna I've heard that you can >> Yeah. I I wanna I've heard that you can explore life itself through meditating. explore life itself through meditating. explore life itself through meditating. So it I'd say that for example in you So it I'd say that for example in you So it I'd say that for example in you know when I when I'm leading retreat know when I when I'm leading retreat know when I when I'm leading retreat like like I'll be doing tomorrow it's like like I'll be doing tomorrow it's like like I'll be doing tomorrow it's going to be the full range. There'll be going to be the full range. There'll be going to be the full range. There'll be people who have just had a catastrophic people who have just had a catastrophic people who have just had a catastrophic loss. There are people who might have loss. There are people who might have loss. There are people who might have had a catastrophic diagnosis. There'll had a catastrophic diagnosis. There'll had a catastrophic diagnosis. There'll be people who are just in a in a be people who are just in a in a be people who are just in a in a fullness of life having a great time fullness of life having a great time fullness of life having a great time riding. their projects are all riding. their projects are all riding. their projects are all flourishing and that and that they've flourishing and that and that they've flourishing and that and that they've got this little acre of curiosity and got this little acre of curiosity and got this little acre of curiosity and they they really want to explore they they really want to explore they they really want to explore actually what is this thing being alive actually what is this thing being alive actually what is this thing being alive and am I fully sort of connected with and am I fully sort of connected with and am I fully sort of connected with who I most deeply am I explore who I am who I most deeply am I explore who I am who I most deeply am I explore who I am I I've assumed I know who I am all these I I've assumed I know who I am all these I I've assumed I know who I am all these years what if I could actually explore years what if I could actually explore years what if I could actually explore more deeply well what is this thing more deeply well what is this thing more deeply well what is this thing being Henry you know what is that what's being Henry you know what is that what's being Henry you know what is that what's actually happening and who really am I actually happening and who really am I actually happening and who really am I that those things meditation is is that those things meditation is is that those things meditation is is actually great for all of them. actually great for all of them. actually great for all of them. >> You know, it it really can meet each of >> You know, it it really can meet each of >> You know, it it really can meet each of us where we need to be met. And you you us where we need to be met. And you you us where we need to be met. And you you think, well, how is that possible? And think, well, how is that possible? And think, well, how is that possible? And one of the things that people will hear one of the things that people will hear one of the things that people will hear about meditation that that may even put about meditation that that may even put about meditation that that may even put them off is like it's about being in the them off is like it's about being in the them off is like it's about being in the present moment. Well, of course, I'm in present moment. Well, of course, I'm in present moment. Well, of course, I'm in the present moment. You know, I'm I'm in the present moment. You know, I'm I'm in the present moment. You know, I'm I'm in the present moment all through the day. the present moment all through the day. the present moment all through the day. actually, you know, in a way, not actually, you know, in a way, not actually, you know, in a way, not really. really. really. >> It's it's there's the difference >> It's it's there's the difference >> It's it's there's the difference between, yeah, you know, knowing I want between, yeah, you know, knowing I want between, yeah, you know, knowing I want to order that coffee, I'm walking to order that coffee, I'm walking to order that coffee, I'm walking through the station, I'm going into the through the station, I'm going into the through the station, I'm going into the meeting, I'm doing the sales call or meeting, I'm doing the sales call or meeting, I'm doing the sales call or whatever, knowing that I'm doing those whatever, knowing that I'm doing those whatever, knowing that I'm doing those things things things >> versus um actually doing all the same >> versus um actually doing all the same >> versus um actually doing all the same things, but richly present for them, things, but richly present for them, things, but richly present for them, really experiencing it, you know, and really experiencing it, you know, and really experiencing it, you know, and it's it's very different. And when we're it's it's very different. And when we're it's it's very different. And when we're really really present, time it changes. really really present, time it changes. really really present, time it changes. >> It does, >> It does, >> It does, >> you know. It's it's not this ticker tape >> you know. It's it's not this ticker tape >> you know. It's it's not this ticker tape clock time. It's it's the richness of clock time. It's it's the richness of clock time. It's it's the richness of being, you know, and that is really being, you know, and that is really being, you know, and that is really where we find this fuller life. This where we find this fuller life. This where we find this fuller life. This that's where we find the more life, you that's where we find the more life, you that's where we find the more life, you know, because we're not the the there's know, because we're not the the there's know, because we're not the the there's a tyranny of time of the clock. a tyranny of time of the clock. a tyranny of time of the clock. >> I think you touch something really >> I think you touch something really >> I think you touch something really important there. A lot of people, important there. A lot of people, important there. A lot of people, as you say, they might get put off as you say, they might get put off as you say, they might get put off saying, "Yeah, it really helps you be saying, "Yeah, it really helps you be saying, "Yeah, it really helps you be present." Well, what does that mean? Why present." Well, what does that mean? Why present." Well, what does that mean? Why do I need to be present? But presence is do I need to be present? But presence is do I need to be present? But presence is literally all that you have, right? If literally all that you have, right? If literally all that you have, right? If if you're not present, you're not if you're not present, you're not if you're not present, you're not actually experiencing life. actually experiencing life. actually experiencing life. >> You're just trying to plan for the >> You're just trying to plan for the >> You're just trying to plan for the future or you're ruminating on the past, future or you're ruminating on the past, future or you're ruminating on the past, but you're not actually living. but you're not actually living. but you're not actually living. >> Yes. Yes. >> Yes. Yes. >> Yes. Yes. >> You know, you're, as you say, you're >> You know, you're, as you say, you're >> You know, you're, as you say, you're you're you're you're you're you're you're operating at the level of time travel in operating at the level of time travel in operating at the level of time travel in your mind. your mind. your mind. >> Yes. But everything is always happening >> Yes. But everything is always happening >> Yes. But everything is always happening only in the present moment. Even your only in the present moment. Even your only in the present moment. Even your recollection of the past is happening recollection of the past is happening recollection of the past is happening now. now. now. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Right. Exactly. So what's what happened >> Right. Exactly. So what's what happened >> Right. Exactly. So what's what happened in the past isn't actually happening in the past isn't actually happening in the past isn't actually happening anymore. anymore. anymore. >> No. >> No. >> No. >> But you constantly thinking about it is >> But you constantly thinking about it is >> But you constantly thinking about it is dragging the past into your present. dragging the past into your present. dragging the past into your present. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> So >> So >> So I don't think there's anything I don't think there's anything I don't think there's anything greater than actually being able to be greater than actually being able to be greater than actually being able to be in the present moment and experience it. in the present moment and experience it. in the present moment and experience it. In fact, I'll say one of the things that In fact, I'll say one of the things that In fact, I'll say one of the things that I have really got from using the way and I have really got from using the way and I have really got from using the way and we'll we'll get to this at some point in we'll we'll get to this at some point in we'll we'll get to this at some point in this conversation about the hindrances. this conversation about the hindrances. this conversation about the hindrances. You write about the five hindrances in You write about the five hindrances in You write about the five hindrances in original love and you know how much I original love and you know how much I original love and you know how much I love that book. Um but love that book. Um but love that book. Um but one thing I I I I got from your one thing I I I I got from your one thing I I I I got from your meditation that I also remember speaking meditation that I also remember speaking meditation that I also remember speaking to uh Jalong Tubton about, he's a he's a to uh Jalong Tubton about, he's a he's a to uh Jalong Tubton about, he's a he's a monk from a different tradition. And one monk from a different tradition. And one monk from a different tradition. And one of the things I think when when Tudson of the things I think when when Tudson of the things I think when when Tudson came on this show, he was talking to me came on this show, he was talking to me came on this show, he was talking to me about, you know, if you're experiencing about, you know, if you're experiencing about, you know, if you're experiencing pain, pain, pain, if you can actually sit with that pain, if you can actually sit with that pain, if you can actually sit with that pain, the pain starts to change. the pain starts to change. the pain starts to change. >> So it's not about saying, "Oh my god, >> So it's not about saying, "Oh my god, >> So it's not about saying, "Oh my god, I'm in pain. I don't want to be in I'm in pain. I don't want to be in I'm in pain. I don't want to be in pain." It's like, I'm in pain now. Let pain." It's like, I'm in pain now. Let pain." It's like, I'm in pain now. Let me really experience that pain and be me really experience that pain and be me really experience that pain and be present with that pain present with that pain present with that pain and being okay with that pain. And by and being okay with that pain. And by and being okay with that pain. And by doing so, the nature of that pain starts doing so, the nature of that pain starts doing so, the nature of that pain starts to change. to change. to change. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Which is so profound when you're not >> Which is so profound when you're not >> Which is so profound when you're not used to thinking like that. used to thinking like that. used to thinking like that. >> Yes. Cuz cuz you automatically think, I >> Yes. Cuz cuz you automatically think, I >> Yes. Cuz cuz you automatically think, I want to get rid of it. want to get rid of it. want to get rid of it. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Either distract myself from it or just >> Either distract myself from it or just >> Either distract myself from it or just get rid of it. get rid of it. get rid of it. >> But but but the pain is there for a >> But but but the pain is there for a >> But but but the pain is there for a reason. Why not try and make friends reason. Why not try and make friends reason. Why not try and make friends with the pain? with the pain? with the pain? >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> And then see what happens. >> And then see what happens. >> And then see what happens. >> Exactly. And this applies to emotional >> Exactly. And this applies to emotional >> Exactly. And this applies to emotional pain. If we can learn to experience the pain. If we can learn to experience the pain. If we can learn to experience the sensory side of an emotion, that's to sensory side of an emotion, that's to sensory side of an emotion, that's to say the physical side of it, the feeling say the physical side of it, the feeling say the physical side of it, the feeling in the body, it's usually chest area or in the body, it's usually chest area or in the body, it's usually chest area or diaphragm area. So somewhere in the diaphragm area. So somewhere in the diaphragm area. So somewhere in the upper torso, usually there's some upper torso, usually there's some upper torso, usually there's some research that says it's usually 94% in research that says it's usually 94% in research that says it's usually 94% in the chest. Wow. the chest. Wow. the chest. Wow. >> But depending on the emotion actually >> But depending on the emotion actually >> But depending on the emotion actually with anxiety, 94% of people, this is with anxiety, 94% of people, this is with anxiety, 94% of people, this is some research, they tend to experience some research, they tend to experience some research, they tend to experience it in the chest if they look for it. And it in the chest if they look for it. And it in the chest if they look for it. And the other 6% is a little bit lower. But the other 6% is a little bit lower. But the other 6% is a little bit lower. But but be that as it may, if we learn to but be that as it may, if we learn to but be that as it may, if we learn to experience our emotions as body experience our emotions as body experience our emotions as body sensations sensations sensations rather, then we stop being so caught up rather, then we stop being so caught up rather, then we stop being so caught up in the stories, you know, that are going in the stories, you know, that are going in the stories, you know, that are going on in our minds. on in our minds. on in our minds. >> And why is that helpful? Why, for >> And why is that helpful? Why, for >> And why is that helpful? Why, for example, is it important if you struggle example, is it important if you struggle example, is it important if you struggle with anxiety to be able to locate where with anxiety to be able to locate where with anxiety to be able to locate where that is in your body? that is in your body? that is in your body? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> What's the problem with going, I'm >> What's the problem with going, I'm >> What's the problem with going, I'm anxious. I don't want to feel anxious. anxious. I don't want to feel anxious. anxious. I don't want to feel anxious. Let me distract myself on Instagram. Let me distract myself on Instagram. Let me distract myself on Instagram. >> Yeah. Well, if you distract yourself >> Yeah. Well, if you distract yourself >> Yeah. Well, if you distract yourself from it, you haven't really advanced in from it, you haven't really advanced in from it, you haven't really advanced in any way. You're still, you know, the any way. You're still, you know, the any way. You're still, you know, the distraction will end and you'll be back distraction will end and you'll be back distraction will end and you'll be back and it'll be back. It may not be back and it'll be back. It may not be back and it'll be back. It may not be back immediately, but it'll just come back. immediately, but it'll just come back. immediately, but it'll just come back. If we can learn to be with difficult If we can learn to be with difficult If we can learn to be with difficult emotions, and they're called difficult emotions, and they're called difficult emotions, and they're called difficult because they are difficult to be with, because they are difficult to be with, because they are difficult to be with, but if we can learn to be with them, um but if we can learn to be with them, um but if we can learn to be with them, um then we have a chance to grow our then we have a chance to grow our then we have a chance to grow our capacity basically as human beings. capacity basically as human beings. capacity basically as human beings. We're sort of growing because we can We're sort of growing because we can We're sort of growing because we can hold what we previously couldn't hold. hold what we previously couldn't hold. hold what we previously couldn't hold. We can learn to host a difficult feeling We can learn to host a difficult feeling We can learn to host a difficult feeling to actually let it be part of our to actually let it be part of our to actually let it be part of our experience. And once we can hold it and experience. And once we can hold it and experience. And once we can hold it and not try to push it away and not try to not try to push it away and not try to not try to push it away and not try to distract from it, it has a chance to distract from it, it has a chance to distract from it, it has a chance to change. And so this actually it all change. And so this actually it all change. And so this actually it all interrelates. The mind we're talking interrelates. The mind we're talking interrelates. The mind we're talking about is like a time traveler. It'll go about is like a time traveler. It'll go about is like a time traveler. It'll go to future scenarios and past scenarios, to future scenarios and past scenarios, to future scenarios and past scenarios, simulations almost in the mind. You simulations almost in the mind. You simulations almost in the mind. You know, know, know, >> the body can't do that. The body doesn't >> the body can't do that. The body doesn't >> the body can't do that. The body doesn't do time travel. So once we get out of do time travel. So once we get out of do time travel. So once we get out of the stories we're telling ourselves the stories we're telling ourselves the stories we're telling ourselves about about a an emotion, for example, about about a an emotion, for example, about about a an emotion, for example, anxiety or restlessness, if we if we anxiety or restlessness, if we if we anxiety or restlessness, if we if we just stay in the thought loops around just stay in the thought loops around just stay in the thought loops around it, nothing's going to happen. We're it, nothing's going to happen. We're it, nothing's going to happen. We're just going to stay in the thought loops. just going to stay in the thought loops. just going to stay in the thought loops. If we get down to the sensation of it in If we get down to the sensation of it in If we get down to the sensation of it in the body, um, now we're actually in the the body, um, now we're actually in the the body, um, now we're actually in the present moment present moment present moment >> because the body can't do time travel. >> because the body can't do time travel. >> because the body can't do time travel. So if we so and this has a double So if we so and this has a double So if we so and this has a double benefit one we start to be present. benefit one we start to be present. benefit one we start to be present. Secondly we've got the chance to Secondly we've got the chance to Secondly we've got the chance to to develop the capacity to be with what to develop the capacity to be with what to develop the capacity to be with what we find difficult emotionally rather we find difficult emotionally rather we find difficult emotionally rather than push it away. In other words we than push it away. In other words we than push it away. In other words we move from resistance move from resistance move from resistance pushing away I don't want this to pushing away I don't want this to pushing away I don't want this to letting it be. And exactly as as the letting it be. And exactly as as the letting it be. And exactly as as the your your friend Tipton was saying, once your your friend Tipton was saying, once your your friend Tipton was saying, once we can do that, it can start to change. we can do that, it can start to change. we can do that, it can start to change. >> It can't do it when we're resisting it. >> It can't do it when we're resisting it. >> It can't do it when we're resisting it. It tends to actually even sometimes get It tends to actually even sometimes get It tends to actually even sometimes get stronger. stronger. stronger. >> Yeah. What you resist persists. Right. >> Yeah. What you resist persists. Right. >> Yeah. What you resist persists. Right. >> Exactly. But once we can once we And >> Exactly. But once we can once we And >> Exactly. But once we can once we And it's it's again it's about that sort of it's it's again it's about that sort of it's it's again it's about that sort of vulnerability, that tenderness, that vulnerability, that tenderness, that vulnerability, that tenderness, that softening. And you know, this is how we softening. And you know, this is how we softening. And you know, this is how we work with our inner life. work with our inner life. work with our inner life. is not with the same kind of you know is not with the same kind of you know is not with the same kind of you know I'm going to conquer it or whatever our I'm going to conquer it or whatever our I'm going to conquer it or whatever our mindset might be about the outer life it mindset might be about the outer life it mindset might be about the outer life it doesn't work with the inner life you doesn't work with the inner life you doesn't work with the inner life you know and if we tried to make it work know and if we tried to make it work know and if we tried to make it work we'd end up well we do end up having a we'd end up well we do end up having a we'd end up well we do end up having a shallower life shallower life shallower life >> a brittle life and you know and we may >> a brittle life and you know and we may >> a brittle life and you know and we may probably have to keep compensating with probably have to keep compensating with probably have to keep compensating with alcohol or something to get through it alcohol or something to get through it alcohol or something to get through it but actually to to tenderize ourselves but actually to to tenderize ourselves but actually to to tenderize ourselves and let ourselves have the emotions we and let ourselves have the emotions we and let ourselves have the emotions we have these are this is how we work with have these are this is how we work with have these are this is how we work with the hindrances that you mentioned the hindrances that you mentioned the hindrances that you mentioned earlier is through learning to be with earlier is through learning to be with earlier is through learning to be with them not resist them not push them away them not resist them not push them away them not resist them not push them away be with them and actually you know we be with them and actually you know we be with them and actually you know we that's a great path of growth that's a great path of growth that's a great path of growth >> we're learning we're developing as a as >> we're learning we're developing as a as >> we're learning we're developing as a as emotional creatures our hearts are emotional creatures our hearts are emotional creatures our hearts are growing we're we're getting more into growing we're we're getting more into growing we're we're getting more into sort of living from the heart not just sort of living from the heart not just sort of living from the heart not just the mind the heart too and that makes the mind the heart too and that makes the mind the heart too and that makes life so much richer [clears throat] life so much richer [clears throat] life so much richer [clears throat] >> and you know and I think If we don't >> and you know and I think If we don't >> and you know and I think If we don't have time in our day when we're still on have time in our day when we're still on have time in our day when we're still on a regular basis, I don't know how easy a regular basis, I don't know how easy a regular basis, I don't know how easy it is to do that. it is to do that. it is to do that. >> Exactly. Solitude, I think, is so >> Exactly. Solitude, I think, is so >> Exactly. Solitude, I think, is so essential these days as the world is essential these days as the world is essential these days as the world is getting noisier and noisier. I think you getting noisier and noisier. I think you getting noisier and noisier. I think you need restbite from that, not just once a need restbite from that, not just once a need restbite from that, not just once a week, every single day. And of course, week, every single day. And of course, week, every single day. And of course, meditation is one way in which you can meditation is one way in which you can meditation is one way in which you can do that. Henry, if someone's listening do that. Henry, if someone's listening do that. Henry, if someone's listening to this and they're thinking, "Okay, to this and they're thinking, "Okay, to this and they're thinking, "Okay, all right. I've heard enough. I I need all right. I've heard enough. I I need all right. I've heard enough. I I need to or I want to give this meditation to or I want to give this meditation to or I want to give this meditation thing a go." Right? thing a go." Right? thing a go." Right? Early on, you said that look, before you Early on, you said that look, before you Early on, you said that look, before you judge whether it's working for you or judge whether it's working for you or judge whether it's working for you or not, whatever that means, you know, give not, whatever that means, you know, give not, whatever that means, you know, give it at least 30 days, maybe even 40 days, it at least 30 days, maybe even 40 days, it at least 30 days, maybe even 40 days, right? And in original love, which is I right? And in original love, which is I right? And in original love, which is I think your most recent book, um think your most recent book, um think your most recent book, um >> I know there's a section where you >> I know there's a section where you >> I know there's a section where you actually write about, you know, at the actually write about, you know, at the actually write about, you know, at the at the start, you really want to focus at the start, you really want to focus at the start, you really want to focus on consistency, on consistency, on consistency, right? Instead of just doing one 20 right? Instead of just doing one 20 right? Instead of just doing one 20 minute session once a week, you're much minute session once a week, you're much minute session once a week, you're much better off doing five minutes a day. better off doing five minutes a day. better off doing five minutes a day. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And even those five minutes they will >> And even those five minutes they will >> And even those five minutes they will start to give you benefits. start to give you benefits. start to give you benefits. >> Right. So, let's imagine we're talking >> Right. So, let's imagine we're talking >> Right. So, let's imagine we're talking to that beginner, someone who's never to that beginner, someone who's never to that beginner, someone who's never done it before, and we could talk about done it before, and we could talk about done it before, and we could talk about it through the lens of your app if you it through the lens of your app if you it through the lens of your app if you want because you guys uh you know, you want because you guys uh you know, you want because you guys uh you know, you very kindly given my audience uh 30 days very kindly given my audience uh 30 days very kindly given my audience uh 30 days of free meditations to try, right? So, of free meditations to try, right? So, of free meditations to try, right? So, people can actually see if it's their people can actually see if it's their people can actually see if it's their thing or not. So, let's say someone thing or not. So, let's say someone thing or not. So, let's say someone wants to do that. wants to do that. wants to do that. >> I don't know how do they start, you >> I don't know how do they start, you >> I don't know how do they start, you know, when do they do it in the day? You know, when do they do it in the day? You know, when do they do it in the day? You know, are there better times than other know, are there better times than other know, are there better times than other times? you know, times? you know, times? you know, >> let's just make this bit super practical >> let's just make this bit super practical >> let's just make this bit super practical for people who actually want to get for people who actually want to get for people who actually want to get going with meditation. going with meditation. going with meditation. >> Yeah. Great. So, I would say here's >> Yeah. Great. So, I would say here's >> Yeah. Great. So, I would say here's here's here's the ideal and then there's here's here's the ideal and then there's here's here's the ideal and then there's modifications for it. The absolute ideal modifications for it. The absolute ideal modifications for it. The absolute ideal is to do it as early as possible in the is to do it as early as possible in the is to do it as early as possible in the day. The reason it's easiest then is day. The reason it's easiest then is day. The reason it's easiest then is that we just haven't yet got caught up that we just haven't yet got caught up that we just haven't yet got caught up in the current of the day. there's once in the current of the day. there's once in the current of the day. there's once we you know once we've reached for the we you know once we've reached for the we you know once we've reached for the phone or once we've uh started making phone or once we've uh started making phone or once we've uh started making breakfast with the kids breakfast with the kids breakfast with the kids >> it's game over but for me >> it's game over but for me >> it's game over but for me >> yeah to I I I'm with you and I I feel >> yeah to I I I'm with you and I I feel >> yeah to I I I'm with you and I I feel that is that definitely that's the best that is that definitely that's the best that is that definitely that's the best way to do it if we can but some people way to do it if we can but some people way to do it if we can but some people just can't you know so then what I just can't you know so then what I just can't you know so then what I recommend is try to do it right before a recommend is try to do it right before a recommend is try to do it right before a meal so let's say you've got a lunch meal so let's say you've got a lunch meal so let's say you've got a lunch break break break >> don't just immediately open the >> don't just immediately open the >> don't just immediately open the Tupperware and start eating do it right Tupperware and start eating do it right Tupperware and start eating do it right before before you start eating. It's before before you start eating. It's before before you start eating. It's It's quite nice to do it before a meal It's quite nice to do it before a meal It's quite nice to do it before a meal uh because you got the meal to look uh because you got the meal to look uh because you got the meal to look forward to, but you've deferred the meal forward to, but you've deferred the meal forward to, but you've deferred the meal and there's a pleasure just in deferring and there's a pleasure just in deferring and there's a pleasure just in deferring it it it >> because you just that little bit of >> because you just that little bit of >> because you just that little bit of sort of honey, we're going to just wait sort of honey, we're going to just wait sort of honey, we're going to just wait a moment. You know, that kind of just a moment. You know, that kind of just a moment. You know, that kind of just little bit of self discipline. I I use little bit of self discipline. I I use little bit of self discipline. I I use the word cautiously, but little bit of the word cautiously, but little bit of the word cautiously, but little bit of self-discipline. I'm not going to eat self-discipline. I'm not going to eat self-discipline. I'm not going to eat right just now. 10 minutes, I'm just right just now. 10 minutes, I'm just right just now. 10 minutes, I'm just going to do my meditation first. You going to do my meditation first. You going to do my meditation first. You enjoy the meal all the more and you'll enjoy the meal all the more and you'll enjoy the meal all the more and you'll have done your meditation. So, if you have done your meditation. So, if you have done your meditation. So, if you can't do it first thing, try to do it can't do it first thing, try to do it can't do it first thing, try to do it maybe before lunch. If you can't do it maybe before lunch. If you can't do it maybe before lunch. If you can't do it then and you the moment you come home then and you the moment you come home then and you the moment you come home from work, you're just caught up in kids from work, you're just caught up in kids from work, you're just caught up in kids stuff or whatever, just do it before the stuff or whatever, just do it before the stuff or whatever, just do it before the end of the day. Some people do it as a end of the day. Some people do it as a end of the day. Some people do it as a windown before they go to sleep. windown before they go to sleep. windown before they go to sleep. >> That's also okay. It actually I mean >> That's also okay. It actually I mean >> That's also okay. It actually I mean it's far more important to do it during it's far more important to do it during it's far more important to do it during the day at some point than to do it the day at some point than to do it the day at some point than to do it early in the day. early in the day. early in the day. >> Yeah. So don't don't aim if you can't do >> Yeah. So don't don't aim if you can't do >> Yeah. So don't don't aim if you can't do it at the perfect time of day, don't it at the perfect time of day, don't it at the perfect time of day, don't worry about it. Not at all. worry about it. Not at all. worry about it. Not at all. >> But if you want to commit to this >> But if you want to commit to this >> But if you want to commit to this practice, just make sure you do it at practice, just make sure you do it at practice, just make sure you do it at some point. some point. some point. >> Yeah. Don't like like I will not put my >> Yeah. Don't like like I will not put my >> Yeah. Don't like like I will not put my head on a pillow until I've done it, head on a pillow until I've done it, head on a pillow until I've done it, >> you know. And actually I mean I know >> you know. And actually I mean I know >> you know. And actually I mean I know people who that's all they've ever done. people who that's all they've ever done. people who that's all they've ever done. It's always been lasting at night and It's always been lasting at night and It's always been lasting at night and they've had huge benefits from the they've had huge benefits from the they've had huge benefits from the practice, you know. is because they've practice, you know. is because they've practice, you know. is because they've just locked it in. So the the second just locked it in. So the the second just locked it in. So the the second thing I'd say is make the decision thing I'd say is make the decision thing I'd say is make the decision upstream. I've decided I'm going to try upstream. I've decided I'm going to try upstream. I've decided I'm going to try meditating for 30 days. So you don't meditating for 30 days. So you don't meditating for 30 days. So you don't have to keep revisiting that decision have to keep revisiting that decision have to keep revisiting that decision every time you're about to do it. You every time you're about to do it. You every time you're about to do it. You see what I mean? You don't say today, see what I mean? You don't say today, see what I mean? You don't say today, shall I do it or not? No, you've already shall I do it or not? No, you've already shall I do it or not? No, you've already made the decision. I'm going to give it made the decision. I'm going to give it made the decision. I'm going to give it a 30-day trial, you know, and so so a 30-day trial, you know, and so so a 30-day trial, you know, and so so therefore you don't have to make the therefore you don't have to make the therefore you don't have to make the decision many times. Yeah, decision many times. Yeah, decision many times. Yeah, >> you made it once. That makes it a lot >> you made it once. That makes it a lot >> you made it once. That makes it a lot easier. How to hold yourself to it? easier. How to hold yourself to it? easier. How to hold yourself to it? Well, again, you just say, "I'm not Well, again, you just say, "I'm not Well, again, you just say, "I'm not going to go to bed without doing it." going to go to bed without doing it." going to go to bed without doing it." And maybe I'm maybe I'm I'm ready for And maybe I'm maybe I'm I'm ready for And maybe I'm maybe I'm I'm ready for bed. I'm going to sit on the edge of the bed. I'm going to sit on the edge of the bed. I'm going to sit on the edge of the bed and do it and then I'm going to lie bed and do it and then I'm going to lie bed and do it and then I'm going to lie down. Or worst case scenario, I'm down. Or worst case scenario, I'm down. Or worst case scenario, I'm actually going to lie down and do it actually going to lie down and do it actually going to lie down and do it lying down. That's okay. It's better lying down. That's okay. It's better lying down. That's okay. It's better than, you know, just going to sleep than, you know, just going to sleep than, you know, just going to sleep without having done it. So, we've got to without having done it. So, we've got to without having done it. So, we've got to be pragmatic about fitting it into our be pragmatic about fitting it into our be pragmatic about fitting it into our day with morning early being optimal, day with morning early being optimal, day with morning early being optimal, but all of it's okay. So, that's that's but all of it's okay. So, that's that's but all of it's okay. So, that's that's that's a couple of things. Um, for that's a couple of things. Um, for that's a couple of things. Um, for beginners, it's actually better not to beginners, it's actually better not to beginners, it's actually better not to do it right after a meal. It's just a do it right after a meal. It's just a do it right after a meal. It's just a little bit easier if your if your if little bit easier if your if your if little bit easier if your if your if your stomach isn't full. your stomach isn't full. your stomach isn't full. >> That's that's the wisdom of the ages. >> That's that's the wisdom of the ages. >> That's that's the wisdom of the ages. They always say that about it. At a They always say that about it. At a They always say that about it. At a certain point, it won't make much certain point, it won't make much certain point, it won't make much difference, but early on it does. Okay, difference, but early on it does. Okay, difference, but early on it does. Okay, that's interesting. that's interesting. that's interesting. >> So, that's something sometimes people >> So, that's something sometimes people >> So, that's something sometimes people stack it with exercise, stack it with exercise, stack it with exercise, >> you know, and and probably you do it >> you know, and and probably you do it >> you know, and and probably you do it after um after exercise, you know, the after um after exercise, you know, the after um after exercise, you know, the way at the end of a yoga class, there's way at the end of a yoga class, there's way at the end of a yoga class, there's often a little bit of meditation. often a little bit of meditation. often a little bit of meditation. >> Um so, when you've been working out with >> Um so, when you've been working out with >> Um so, when you've been working out with your body, you're a little bit more in your body, you're a little bit more in your body, you're a little bit more in your body. It can make it a bit easier your body. It can make it a bit easier your body. It can make it a bit easier to get into meditation. So, you can tack to get into meditation. So, you can tack to get into meditation. So, you can tack it on to something you're doing anyway. it on to something you're doing anyway. it on to something you're doing anyway. And what what about for people who like And what what about for people who like And what what about for people who like to start to start to start you know their day with a with a cup of you know their day with a with a cup of you know their day with a with a cup of tea or coffee? tea or coffee? tea or coffee? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Is it better or advisable to meditate >> Is it better or advisable to meditate >> Is it better or advisable to meditate before that or can you have that before that or can you have that before that or can you have that caffeinated drink first before you caffeinated drink first before you caffeinated drink first before you meditate or does it not make any meditate or does it not make any meditate or does it not make any difference? difference? difference? >> You totally can have it before and I >> You totally can have it before and I >> You totally can have it before and I have to admit I often do that myself have to admit I often do that myself have to admit I often do that myself actually and tea has a long relationship actually and tea has a long relationship actually and tea has a long relationship with meditation you know it's with meditation you know it's with meditation you know it's caffeinated. So, I would say this. If caffeinated. So, I would say this. If caffeinated. So, I would say this. If you really want a coffee or tea, make it you really want a coffee or tea, make it you really want a coffee or tea, make it and immediately bring it to where you're and immediately bring it to where you're and immediately bring it to where you're going to meditate and sort of sip it going to meditate and sort of sip it going to meditate and sort of sip it right where you are. And if it's really right where you are. And if it's really right where you are. And if it's really hot, hot, hot, you know, have a little bit of it and you know, have a little bit of it and you know, have a little bit of it and just let it sit there. Do your 10 just let it sit there. Do your 10 just let it sit there. Do your 10 minutes and then finish it, you know? minutes and then finish it, you know? minutes and then finish it, you know? So, so So, so So, so don't have the tea. I mean, we're don't have the tea. I mean, we're don't have the tea. I mean, we're getting really precise now, but if you getting really precise now, but if you getting really precise now, but if you have the tea sort of separately from have the tea sort of separately from have the tea sort of separately from your place of meditation, you might get your place of meditation, you might get your place of meditation, you might get caught up in other stuff and not get to caught up in other stuff and not get to caught up in other stuff and not get to the place of meditation, the place of meditation, the place of meditation, >> if that makes sense. Okay. And you >> if that makes sense. Okay. And you >> if that makes sense. Okay. And you mentioned 10 minutes there. And again, mentioned 10 minutes there. And again, mentioned 10 minutes there. And again, just to make sure this is practical for just to make sure this is practical for just to make sure this is practical for people, people, people, >> I know in um page 56, I think of uh >> I know in um page 56, I think of uh >> I know in um page 56, I think of uh original love, you have this sort of original love, you have this sort of original love, you have this sort of guide, you know, practice. how long and guide, you know, practice. how long and guide, you know, practice. how long and what time of day. And what time of day. And what time of day. And you know, a target level of duration you know, a target level of duration you know, a target level of duration ultimately might be 20 minutes, but it's ultimately might be 20 minutes, but it's ultimately might be 20 minutes, but it's way better to do 5 minutes every day way better to do 5 minutes every day way better to do 5 minutes every day than 20 minutes twice a week. Um, you than 20 minutes twice a week. Um, you than 20 minutes twice a week. Um, you say that when you're starting, say that when you're starting, say that when you're starting, don't do it for too long. 5 minutes is a don't do it for too long. 5 minutes is a don't do it for too long. 5 minutes is a perfectly fine starting dose. perfectly fine starting dose. perfectly fine starting dose. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I think that's so helpful, right? >> I think that's so helpful, right? >> I think that's so helpful, right? Because if if if you're not used to Because if if if you're not used to Because if if if you're not used to sitting sitting sitting in silence with your internal world, 20 in silence with your internal world, 20 in silence with your internal world, 20 minutes can be a long time initially, minutes can be a long time initially, minutes can be a long time initially, right? right? right? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> 5 minutes can seem a long time, but 5 >> 5 minutes can seem a long time, but 5 >> 5 minutes can seem a long time, but 5 minutes feels very achievable to people. minutes feels very achievable to people. minutes feels very achievable to people. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And so I would say to anyone listening, >> And so I would say to anyone listening, >> And so I would say to anyone listening, if you if you've ever thought about if you if you've ever thought about if you if you've ever thought about meditation meditation meditation and you know it's piqu your interest, and you know it's piqu your interest, and you know it's piqu your interest, why couldn't you commit to doing 5 why couldn't you commit to doing 5 why couldn't you commit to doing 5 minutes a day for the next 30 days? Yes. minutes a day for the next 30 days? Yes. minutes a day for the next 30 days? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. >> I mean, you could do >> I mean, you could do >> I mean, you could do >> you could Yeah. >> you could Yeah. >> you could Yeah. >> You know, and if you if you say you >> You know, and if you if you say you >> You know, and if you if you say you can't, you're can't, you're can't, you're you know, there will be a reason that you know, there will be a reason that you know, there will be a reason that you're there's there'll be an obstacle you're there's there'll be an obstacle you're there's there'll be an obstacle you're putting in the way of doing it you're putting in the way of doing it you're putting in the way of doing it because there's no reason any one of us because there's no reason any one of us because there's no reason any one of us can't do something for 5 minutes a day can't do something for 5 minutes a day can't do something for 5 minutes a day for 30 days. for 30 days. for 30 days. >> Exactly. And I bet many many people have >> Exactly. And I bet many many people have >> Exactly. And I bet many many people have spent at least 5 minutes a day spent at least 5 minutes a day spent at least 5 minutes a day mindlessly on the phone. mindlessly on the phone. mindlessly on the phone. >> For sure. >> For sure. >> For sure. >> But they'll say they don't have time for >> But they'll say they don't have time for >> But they'll say they don't have time for meditation, but they've got the time to meditation, but they've got the time to meditation, but they've got the time to scroll for that long. And I'm not having scroll for that long. And I'm not having scroll for that long. And I'm not having a go at people. I'm saying there's a a go at people. I'm saying there's a a go at people. I'm saying there's a there's a perception of it feels there's a perception of it feels there's a perception of it feels different, you know, it feels for some different, you know, it feels for some different, you know, it feels for some people Henry harder. people Henry harder. people Henry harder. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Because it's I think there's a >> Because it's I think there's a >> Because it's I think there's a perception that I'm going to do it wrong perception that I'm going to do it wrong perception that I'm going to do it wrong or I don't know how to do it. And I I or I don't know how to do it. And I I or I don't know how to do it. And I I kind of feel that people think kind of feel that people think kind of feel that people think meditation is something that it isn't. meditation is something that it isn't. meditation is something that it isn't. >> Yeah. Exactly. I think that I this is >> Yeah. Exactly. I think that I this is >> Yeah. Exactly. I think that I this is I'm very I really understand this. I had I'm very I really understand this. I had I'm very I really understand this. I had it myself. I thought when I started that it myself. I thought when I started that it myself. I thought when I started that meditation meant what I now know means meditation meant what I now know means meditation meant what I now know means an experienced meditator experiences. an experienced meditator experiences. an experienced meditator experiences. >> I thought it had to be this sort of very >> I thought it had to be this sort of very >> I thought it had to be this sort of very peaceful, serene, happy, clear, no peaceful, serene, happy, clear, no peaceful, serene, happy, clear, no thoughts arising, blissed out or thoughts arising, blissed out or thoughts arising, blissed out or something like that. I thought it had to something like that. I thought it had to something like that. I thought it had to mean that. It doesn't at all. It's it's mean that. It doesn't at all. It's it's mean that. It doesn't at all. It's it's warts and all. It's a total acceptance warts and all. It's a total acceptance warts and all. It's a total acceptance of how we are. So, of how we are. So, of how we are. So, so just sitting down and being with so just sitting down and being with so just sitting down and being with ourselves as we are that is it you know ourselves as we are that is it you know ourselves as we are that is it you know and so having a little bit of guidance and so having a little bit of guidance and so having a little bit of guidance also is a really helpful thing. I also is a really helpful thing. I also is a really helpful thing. I actually didn't have that myself when I actually didn't have that myself when I actually didn't have that myself when I started. I was just on my own doing it. started. I was just on my own doing it. started. I was just on my own doing it. I did I did the deep end 20 minutes I did I did the deep end 20 minutes I did I did the deep end 20 minutes twice a day actually like my twice a day actually like my twice a day actually like my grandfather. Yeah. All in because that's grandfather. Yeah. All in because that's grandfather. Yeah. All in because that's how I was taught and I'm very grateful how I was taught and I'm very grateful how I was taught and I'm very grateful that I was. But I I now know that that that I was. But I I now know that that that I was. But I I now know that that is by no means the only way to do it. So is by no means the only way to do it. So is by no means the only way to do it. So I'd say with the way we've got a bit of I'd say with the way we've got a bit of I'd say with the way we've got a bit of a halfway house. Our our our sits are a halfway house. Our our our sits are a halfway house. Our our our sits are basically 10 minutes. You can increase basically 10 minutes. You can increase basically 10 minutes. You can increase the length if you want. But because it's the length if you want. But because it's the length if you want. But because it's quite closely guided, I think actually quite closely guided, I think actually quite closely guided, I think actually everybody can follow the way from the everybody can follow the way from the everybody can follow the way from the start start start >> and before you know it, the 10 minutes >> and before you know it, the 10 minutes >> and before you know it, the 10 minutes is up, is up, is up, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> Before you know it. >> Before you know it. >> Before you know it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Oh, you know, Henry's asking me to open >> Oh, you know, Henry's asking me to open >> Oh, you know, Henry's asking me to open my eyes now and and get ready to get my eyes now and and get ready to get my eyes now and and get ready to get back into the world. So it feels very back into the world. So it feels very back into the world. So it feels very very doable. One of the things I love very doable. One of the things I love very doable. One of the things I love about the way the most is the fact that about the way the most is the fact that about the way the most is the fact that there's no choice. there's no choice. there's no choice. Okay. It it because most of these apps Okay. It it because most of these apps Okay. It it because most of these apps and of course there are there are lots and of course there are there are lots and of course there are there are lots of very good apps out there, right? But of very good apps out there, right? But of very good apps out there, right? But a lot of them you go on and you have to a lot of them you go on and you have to a lot of them you go on and you have to choose what you're going to do from this choose what you're going to do from this choose what you're going to do from this vast library of content. And every time vast library of content. And every time vast library of content. And every time you have to make a decision, you know, you have to make a decision, you know, you have to make a decision, you know, you're using up some of your cognitive you're using up some of your cognitive you're using up some of your cognitive reserve, it can be stressful sometimes. reserve, it can be stressful sometimes. reserve, it can be stressful sometimes. You know, which one of these wonderful You know, which one of these wonderful You know, which one of these wonderful meditations shall I do? I think meditations shall I do? I think meditations shall I do? I think literally I think one of the best things literally I think one of the best things literally I think one of the best things about the way is that there isn't a about the way is that there isn't a about the way is that there isn't a choice. You go on and you do the next choice. You go on and you do the next choice. You go on and you do the next meditation and you know fans of this meditation and you know fans of this meditation and you know fans of this podcast, people who've read my my book podcast, people who've read my my book podcast, people who've read my my book on happiness will know that chapter 2 is on happiness will know that chapter 2 is on happiness will know that chapter 2 is called eliminate choice. And I talk called eliminate choice. And I talk called eliminate choice. And I talk about the problems of too much choice in about the problems of too much choice in about the problems of too much choice in our lives. Yes. our lives. Yes. our lives. Yes. >> And why eliminating choice for where we >> And why eliminating choice for where we >> And why eliminating choice for where we can in our life can simplify life can in our life can simplify life can in our life can simplify life massively. massively. massively. >> And then when [clears throat] I >> And then when [clears throat] I >> And then when [clears throat] I downloaded the way many many months ago, downloaded the way many many months ago, downloaded the way many many months ago, I was like, "Oh my god, I love it. There I was like, "Oh my god, I love it. There I was like, "Oh my god, I love it. There is no choice." But that's liberating. is no choice." But that's liberating. is no choice." But that's liberating. It's actually, you know, because why do It's actually, you know, because why do It's actually, you know, because why do you need to choose each day? What kind you need to choose each day? What kind you need to choose each day? What kind of meditation am I up for doing? It's of meditation am I up for doing? It's of meditation am I up for doing? It's hard enough for people to actually get hard enough for people to actually get hard enough for people to actually get going with a meditation practice, let going with a meditation practice, let going with a meditation practice, let alone choose the flavor and type of alone choose the flavor and type of alone choose the flavor and type of meditation they want. Yes. meditation they want. Yes. meditation they want. Yes. >> So, was that quite an intentional choice >> So, was that quite an intentional choice >> So, was that quite an intentional choice when you were sort of putting together when you were sort of putting together when you were sort of putting together the app? the app? the app? >> Totally. I would almost say that was the >> Totally. I would almost say that was the >> Totally. I would almost say that was the reason we created the app reason we created the app reason we created the app >> was that it should be a single pathway >> was that it should be a single pathway >> was that it should be a single pathway without any choice. And the the without any choice. And the the without any choice. And the the challenge was how to create a pathway challenge was how to create a pathway challenge was how to create a pathway that's a path of training takes you that's a path of training takes you that's a path of training takes you deeper gently gradually exploring deeper gently gradually exploring deeper gently gradually exploring different aspects of meditation in a way different aspects of meditation in a way different aspects of meditation in a way that really made sense. That that was that really made sense. That that was that really made sense. That that was the challenge and that was the joy for the challenge and that was the joy for the challenge and that was the joy for me to be able to you know actually have me to be able to you know actually have me to be able to you know actually have this way of sharing you know with you this way of sharing you know with you this way of sharing you know with you know with thankfully I mean amazingly know with thankfully I mean amazingly know with thankfully I mean amazingly many people already you know sharing many people already you know sharing many people already you know sharing what I've learned you know and what I've what I've learned you know and what I've what I've learned you know and what I've through hard hard one and hardearned through hard hard one and hardearned through hard hard one and hardearned sort of you know a lot of work on on the sort of you know a lot of work on on the sort of you know a lot of work on on the z on the meditation cushion over the z on the meditation cushion over the z on the meditation cushion over the decades I sort of learned that yeah decades I sort of learned that yeah decades I sort of learned that yeah there are these different dimensions of there are these different dimensions of there are these different dimensions of the practice different aspects of the the practice different aspects of the the practice different aspects of the practice And they kind of work somewhat practice And they kind of work somewhat practice And they kind of work somewhat in in a sequence. in in a sequence. in in a sequence. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, you know, you keep going and I mean, you know, you keep going and I mean, you know, you keep going and then then then >> a lesson that perhaps you didn't fully >> a lesson that perhaps you didn't fully >> a lesson that perhaps you didn't fully get first time round, you revisit a few get first time round, you revisit a few get first time round, you revisit a few weeks later. Yeah. weeks later. Yeah. weeks later. Yeah. >> And because you've done other elements >> And because you've done other elements >> And because you've done other elements of practice in those weeks in between, of practice in those weeks in between, of practice in those weeks in between, sometimes it just lands differently. sometimes it just lands differently. sometimes it just lands differently. You're like, "Oh, I get it now. Oh, you You're like, "Oh, I get it now. Oh, you You're like, "Oh, I get it now. Oh, you know, I didn't get it first time around, know, I didn't get it first time around, know, I didn't get it first time around, but now I get what he means when he's but now I get what he means when he's but now I get what he means when he's saying that." But I think what you need, saying that." But I think what you need, saying that." But I think what you need, which is what you've been talking about which is what you've been talking about which is what you've been talking about during this podcast so far, Henry, is during this podcast so far, Henry, is during this podcast so far, Henry, is this. You need to trust the process. this. You need to trust the process. this. You need to trust the process. >> That's right. That's right. >> That's right. That's right. >> That's right. That's right. >> You need to make the commitment to >> You need to make the commitment to >> You need to make the commitment to yourself that I'm going to show up and yourself that I'm going to show up and yourself that I'm going to show up and sit on the meditation cushion, the sit on the meditation cushion, the sit on the meditation cushion, the metaphorical cushion, if you don't use a metaphorical cushion, if you don't use a metaphorical cushion, if you don't use a cushion, every day. And trust that over cushion, every day. And trust that over cushion, every day. And trust that over time those benefits will start to time those benefits will start to time those benefits will start to infiltrate my life. Exactly. It's it's infiltrate my life. Exactly. It's it's infiltrate my life. Exactly. It's it's really I feel somehow sometimes that really I feel somehow sometimes that really I feel somehow sometimes that it's just it's like a press putting it's just it's like a press putting it's just it's like a press putting ourselves in the way of something larger ourselves in the way of something larger ourselves in the way of something larger than us. than us. than us. >> You know that we we're we're we're >> You know that we we're we're we're >> You know that we we're we're we're opening up just a little tiny bit the opening up just a little tiny bit the opening up just a little tiny bit the door to sort of not having the full door to sort of not having the full door to sort of not having the full picture. Maybe I don't know everything picture. Maybe I don't know everything picture. Maybe I don't know everything about what my life really is and I'm about what my life really is and I'm about what my life really is and I'm just going to follow this path and be just going to follow this path and be just going to follow this path and be and and let myself follow it and and and and let myself follow it and and and and let myself follow it and and trust that the process is going to take trust that the process is going to take trust that the process is going to take care of itself. And so that in other care of itself. And so that in other care of itself. And so that in other words that there's some sort of wisdom words that there's some sort of wisdom words that there's some sort of wisdom that's been that has been handed down that's been that has been handed down that's been that has been handed down over the you know thousands of years you over the you know thousands of years you over the you know thousands of years you know it's and it's of course in many know it's and it's of course in many know it's and it's of course in many many different traditions many many ways many different traditions many many ways many different traditions many many ways about our human nature that can about our human nature that can about our human nature that can gradually grow in us that it's not it's gradually grow in us that it's not it's gradually grow in us that it's not it's not we're being sort of given something not we're being sort of given something not we're being sort of given something we're just being helped to discover we're just being helped to discover we're just being helped to discover something about who we actually already something about who we actually already something about who we actually already are are are >> and it it just takes time and so if we >> and it it just takes time and so if we >> and it it just takes time and so if we have a path that we can follow have a path that we can follow have a path that we can follow >> we just trust the path. Yeah. Do you >> we just trust the path. Yeah. Do you >> we just trust the path. Yeah. Do you find, you know, being someone who's find, you know, being someone who's find, you know, being someone who's meditated for so long, meditated for so long, meditated for so long, you're at the moment in the UK, you you you're at the moment in the UK, you you you're at the moment in the UK, you you you live in New Mexico in America you live in New Mexico in America you live in New Mexico in America and you're in the UK and you're and you're in the UK and you're and you're in the UK and you're traveling around. Okay. So, you've been traveling around. Okay. So, you've been traveling around. Okay. So, you've been in Scotland, you just come down to my in Scotland, you just come down to my in Scotland, you just come down to my studio today, then you're going to studio today, then you're going to studio today, then you're going to London. London. London. When When When the inevitabilities of life kick in, the inevitabilities of life kick in, the inevitabilities of life kick in, travel delays, right? You're taking the travel delays, right? You're taking the travel delays, right? You're taking the British Rail service at the moment and British Rail service at the moment and British Rail service at the moment and you know it's been cold recently and you you know it's been cold recently and you you know it's been cold recently and you know when it gets to about 2 degrees know when it gets to about 2 degrees know when it gets to about 2 degrees things stop working as efficiently as things stop working as efficiently as things stop working as efficiently as they might do right would you say that I they might do right would you say that I they might do right would you say that I know it's been years since you've know it's been years since you've know it's been years since you've started meditating so I don't know if started meditating so I don't know if started meditating so I don't know if you can you can you can really compare before and after but really compare before and after but really compare before and after but would you say you're just generally more would you say you're just generally more would you say you're just generally more patient or when a train is delayed or patient or when a train is delayed or patient or when a train is delayed or let's say you miss your connection let's say you miss your connection let's say you miss your connection do Do you find that you're less likely do Do you find that you're less likely do Do you find that you're less likely to get stressed out by these things to get stressed out by these things to get stressed out by these things because of your practice on the because of your practice on the because of your practice on the meditation cushion? meditation cushion? meditation cushion? >> Yeah, I I I can honestly say that I do >> Yeah, I I I can honestly say that I do >> Yeah, I I I can honestly say that I do get less stress less stressed out. I do. get less stress less stressed out. I do. get less stress less stressed out. I do. It's not that I sort of never ever It's not that I sort of never ever It's not that I sort of never ever would, but I I generally don't. I'd get would, but I I generally don't. I'd get would, but I I generally don't. I'd get more bothered by people I love going more bothered by people I love going more bothered by people I love going through a hard time. That's what would through a hard time. That's what would through a hard time. That's what would that's what would engage more, you know, that's what would engage more, you know, that's what would engage more, you know, more of a reaction in me is is when I'm more of a reaction in me is is when I'm more of a reaction in me is is when I'm really somebody I really care about is really somebody I really care about is really somebody I really care about is having a hard time. having a hard time. having a hard time. >> That's that can be very hard. Um, >> That's that can be very hard. Um, >> That's that can be very hard. Um, but here's the thing is like what it but here's the thing is like what it but here's the thing is like what it really comes down to is that the sense really comes down to is that the sense really comes down to is that the sense of I don't know if this is going to of I don't know if this is going to of I don't know if this is going to sound too strange, but of a kind of sound too strange, but of a kind of sound too strange, but of a kind of goodness in in in life itself, a goodness in in in life itself, a goodness in in in life itself, a goodness in awareness itself, a goodness goodness in awareness itself, a goodness goodness in awareness itself, a goodness in being present itself. I sense that in being present itself. I sense that in being present itself. I sense that very easily, you know, and so very often very easily, you know, and so very often very easily, you know, and so very often when I'm if I've been going through sort when I'm if I've been going through sort when I'm if I've been going through sort of turbulent time and, you know, and of turbulent time and, you know, and of turbulent time and, you know, and I've got a little off track, I sit and I I've got a little off track, I sit and I I've got a little off track, I sit and I just sooner or later I'm just going to just sooner or later I'm just going to just sooner or later I'm just going to find there's this goodness. find there's this goodness. find there's this goodness. >> It's just present and it it doesn't feel >> It's just present and it it doesn't feel >> It's just present and it it doesn't feel like it's conditional. It doesn't feel like it's conditional. It doesn't feel like it's conditional. It doesn't feel like this goodness is dependent on the like this goodness is dependent on the like this goodness is dependent on the right conditions. It feels like it's right conditions. It feels like it's right conditions. It feels like it's always been here. always been here. always been here. >> Yeah. Yeah. And this life is floating on >> Yeah. Yeah. And this life is floating on >> Yeah. Yeah. And this life is floating on it, you know. So it's like then what the it, you know. So it's like then what the it, you know. So it's like then what the train this laid I mean train this laid I mean train this laid I mean >> it just it doesn't compare with it kind >> it just it doesn't compare with it kind >> it just it doesn't compare with it kind of thing. [clears throat] of thing. [clears throat] of thing. [clears throat] >> Yeah. It just doesn't compare because >> Yeah. It just doesn't compare because >> Yeah. It just doesn't compare because this goodness is is so good, you know. this goodness is is so good, you know. this goodness is is so good, you know. And I'm a I have to say, you know, just And I'm a I have to say, you know, just And I'm a I have to say, you know, just I'm not a sort of faith-based thing, you I'm not a sort of faith-based thing, you I'm not a sort of faith-based thing, you know. I'm I'm I'm non-religious know. I'm I'm I'm non-religious know. I'm I'm I'm non-religious basically, you know, and I probably if basically, you know, and I probably if basically, you know, and I probably if pushed I I I actually I'd say I'm kind pushed I I I actually I'd say I'm kind pushed I I I actually I'd say I'm kind of an atheist or at least an agnostic, of an atheist or at least an agnostic, of an atheist or at least an agnostic, but I totally feel that there's but I totally feel that there's but I totally feel that there's something in the very fabric of our something in the very fabric of our something in the very fabric of our being and of our consciousness that's so being and of our consciousness that's so being and of our consciousness that's so universal that's unconditionally good, universal that's unconditionally good, universal that's unconditionally good, you know, and I can't explain it, but you know, and I can't explain it, but you know, and I can't explain it, but I'm convinced that it's real. And I I'm convinced that it's real. And I I'm convinced that it's real. And I don't think of it as a theological thing don't think of it as a theological thing don't think of it as a theological thing at all. at all. at all. >> No, I I think it is who we all are. >> No, I I think it is who we all are. >> No, I I think it is who we all are. >> I don't think this division that we >> I don't think this division that we >> I don't think this division that we perceive these days is real in the sense perceive these days is real in the sense perceive these days is real in the sense that it is real, but it's a downstream that it is real, but it's a downstream that it is real, but it's a downstream consequence. I think ultimately who we consequence. I think ultimately who we consequence. I think ultimately who we are at our core is good. are at our core is good. are at our core is good. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Is compassionate. Is kind. >> Is compassionate. Is kind. >> Is compassionate. Is kind. >> Yes. Um, I remember when you first came >> Yes. Um, I remember when you first came >> Yes. Um, I remember when you first came on the podcast, Henry, a few months ago, on the podcast, Henry, a few months ago, on the podcast, Henry, a few months ago, I think I started off by I think I started off by I think I started off by asking you what you thought of the Dalai asking you what you thought of the Dalai asking you what you thought of the Dalai Lama quotes. Um, I I think it was I Lama quotes. Um, I I think it was I Lama quotes. Um, I I think it was I think he said, "If every 8-year-old was think he said, "If every 8-year-old was think he said, "If every 8-year-old was taught how to meditate, taught how to meditate, taught how to meditate, um, um, um, we'd solve we'd solve we'd solve all human suffering within a generation all human suffering within a generation all human suffering within a generation or something like that." or something like that." or something like that." >> Something like that. Yeah. Um, and I >> Something like that. Yeah. Um, and I >> Something like that. Yeah. Um, and I think think think when you meditate regularly, I think you when you meditate regularly, I think you when you meditate regularly, I think you do access this kindness and you want to do access this kindness and you want to do access this kindness and you want to be good to yourself and to the world be good to yourself and to the world be good to yourself and to the world around you. around you. around you. On page 211 of original love, I I On page 211 of original love, I I On page 211 of original love, I I underlined a paragraph that I think underlined a paragraph that I think underlined a paragraph that I think speaks to this idea. speaks to this idea. speaks to this idea. In the end, the thing that matters is In the end, the thing that matters is In the end, the thing that matters is our heart and how much it breaks open. our heart and how much it breaks open. our heart and how much it breaks open. It wouldn't be wrong to view the It wouldn't be wrong to view the It wouldn't be wrong to view the entirety of a life of growth through entirety of a life of growth through entirety of a life of growth through meditation practice as an ever more meditation practice as an ever more meditation practice as an ever more breaking heart. A heart that can handle breaking heart. A heart that can handle breaking heart. A heart that can handle ever more heartbreak and still be at ever more heartbreak and still be at ever more heartbreak and still be at peace and know love. peace and know love. peace and know love. I mean, that's just so beautiful, Henry. I mean, that's just so beautiful, Henry. I mean, that's just so beautiful, Henry. And And And I would say one of my intentions going I would say one of my intentions going I would say one of my intentions going to 2026 is to try to the best of my to 2026 is to try to the best of my to 2026 is to try to the best of my ability to live each and every single ability to live each and every single ability to live each and every single day with an open heart. day with an open heart. day with an open heart. I think that's the most important thing I think that's the most important thing I think that's the most important thing I can do in life is live with an open I can do in life is live with an open I can do in life is live with an open heart and notice if there's ever a heart and notice if there's ever a heart and notice if there's ever a tendency for your heart to close. tendency for your heart to close. tendency for your heart to close. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And I think these days I can notice it >> And I think these days I can notice it >> And I think these days I can notice it early. Go. Oh, there it is. Hold on. early. Go. Oh, there it is. Hold on. early. Go. Oh, there it is. Hold on. Okay. that you don't need to close your Okay. that you don't need to close your Okay. that you don't need to close your heart. You know, can you be heart. You know, can you be heart. You know, can you be compassionate? Can you love people? Can compassionate? Can you love people? Can compassionate? Can you love people? Can you want the best for people? Um, can you want the best for people? Um, can you want the best for people? Um, can you do stuff for others without any you do stuff for others without any you do stuff for others without any expectation of them doing anything in expectation of them doing anything in expectation of them doing anything in return for you, these are things that I return for you, these are things that I return for you, these are things that I have been thinking a lot about over the have been thinking a lot about over the have been thinking a lot about over the past few years. is. And I find that when past few years. is. And I find that when past few years. is. And I find that when I can live with an open heart, when I I can live with an open heart, when I I can live with an open heart, when I want to do the right thing, not so that want to do the right thing, not so that want to do the right thing, not so that people will say I did the right thing or people will say I did the right thing or people will say I did the right thing or so that I can gain thanks for doing the so that I can gain thanks for doing the so that I can gain thanks for doing the right thing, just because I know it's right thing, just because I know it's right thing, just because I know it's the right thing to do and it feels good the right thing to do and it feels good the right thing to do and it feels good for me, that's when I'm living my best for me, that's when I'm living my best for me, that's when I'm living my best life. Yeah. life. Yeah. life. Yeah. >> And I feel meditation helps me access >> And I feel meditation helps me access >> And I feel meditation helps me access that state more often. that state more often. that state more often. I fully agree. I I really think in the I fully agree. I I really think in the I fully agree. I I really think in the end that's true purpose is to help our end that's true purpose is to help our end that's true purpose is to help our human hearts be fully open. And I I also human hearts be fully open. And I I also human hearts be fully open. And I I also actually feel that the more open our actually feel that the more open our actually feel that the more open our hearts are the more more intrinsic hearts are the more more intrinsic hearts are the more more intrinsic connection we discover connection we discover connection we discover >> that there's something about the fully >> that there's something about the fully >> that there's something about the fully open heart that just just ends open heart that just just ends open heart that just just ends separation. It really an on ultimate separation. It really an on ultimate separation. It really an on ultimate level I think there's a there's a way level I think there's a there's a way level I think there's a there's a way that our our hearts actually that our our hearts actually that our our hearts actually bring us to some kind of ground of being bring us to some kind of ground of being bring us to some kind of ground of being that all things are part of. that all things are part of. that all things are part of. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And that and that we really can we tr >> And that and that we really can we tr >> And that and that we really can we tr it's again it's not this isn't found it's again it's not this isn't found it's again it's not this isn't found through dogma or doctrine or any real through dogma or doctrine or any real through dogma or doctrine or any real belief system actually. It's found belief system actually. It's found belief system actually. It's found through our own experience. And that's through our own experience. And that's through our own experience. And that's what I love most about meditation that what I love most about meditation that what I love most about meditation that it's so shockingly simple. It's just it's so shockingly simple. It's just it's so shockingly simple. It's just being here, being here, being here, >> you know, and that in just being here, >> you know, and that in just being here, >> you know, and that in just being here, we could find this boundless love. I I we could find this boundless love. I I we could find this boundless love. I I don't I don't understand it, but I know don't I don't understand it, but I know don't I don't understand it, but I know it's real it's real it's real >> and and it connects us with everything. >> and and it connects us with everything. >> and and it connects us with everything. 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See all details at drinkag1.com/live One of the things I One of the things I think about when I think about think about when I think about think about when I think about meditation is that even the word meditation is that even the word meditation is that even the word meditation meditation meditation in some ways in some ways in some ways I won't say it's misleading but there's I won't say it's misleading but there's I won't say it's misleading but there's a perception if we hear the word a perception if we hear the word a perception if we hear the word meditation that it's one thing right oh meditation that it's one thing right oh meditation that it's one thing right oh you're meditating you're either you're meditating you're either you're meditating you're either meditating or you're not meditating but meditating or you're not meditating but meditating or you're not meditating but >> it feels like meditation is almost the >> it feels like meditation is almost the >> it feels like meditation is almost the umbrella term umbrella term umbrella term for us to start examining our internal for us to start examining our internal for us to start examining our internal worlds and And there are so many worlds and And there are so many worlds and And there are so many different ways to meditate. You know, different ways to meditate. You know, different ways to meditate. You know, very very simply, you've got focused very very simply, you've got focused very very simply, you've got focused attention via open awareness, right? attention via open awareness, right? attention via open awareness, right? They're both meditation practices, They're both meditation practices, They're both meditation practices, >> but they're a different way of >> but they're a different way of >> but they're a different way of experiencing meditation. So perhaps you experiencing meditation. So perhaps you experiencing meditation. So perhaps you could explain what is the difference and could explain what is the difference and could explain what is the difference and when might we want focused attention when might we want focused attention when might we want focused attention versus when might we want open versus when might we want open versus when might we want open awareness. awareness. awareness. >> Yeah, that that's right. And there I >> Yeah, that that's right. And there I >> Yeah, that that's right. And there I mean there are there are probably mean there are there are probably mean there are there are probably thousands of forms of meditation. thousands of forms of meditation. thousands of forms of meditation. >> That's two big families. Focused >> That's two big families. Focused >> That's two big families. Focused attention, open awareness. And actually attention, open awareness. And actually attention, open awareness. And actually in the way we weave between the two. We in the way we weave between the two. We in the way we weave between the two. We use both. But focused attention would be use both. But focused attention would be use both. But focused attention would be the classic kind of thing that people the classic kind of thing that people the classic kind of thing that people think of meditation as being is think of meditation as being is think of meditation as being is following the breath. I got to stay following the breath. I got to stay following the breath. I got to stay aware of my breath as it comes and goes. aware of my breath as it comes and goes. aware of my breath as it comes and goes. And that's great. That's fine. Open And that's great. That's fine. Open And that's great. That's fine. Open awareness is more like I don't have a awareness is more like I don't have a awareness is more like I don't have a particular thing I'm going to be aware particular thing I'm going to be aware particular thing I'm going to be aware of but I'm going to be aware of whatever of but I'm going to be aware of whatever of but I'm going to be aware of whatever arises in experience. So I might find arises in experience. So I might find arises in experience. So I might find I'm feeling uh the seat beneath my I'm feeling uh the seat beneath my I'm feeling uh the seat beneath my buttocks. Fine. I'm I'm aware of light buttocks. Fine. I'm I'm aware of light buttocks. Fine. I'm I'm aware of light on my eyelids or even my eyes might be on my eyelids or even my eyes might be on my eyelids or even my eyes might be open. I'm aware of colors and shapes and open. I'm aware of colors and shapes and open. I'm aware of colors and shapes and and now I'm aware of sound and so on. So and now I'm aware of sound and so on. So and now I'm aware of sound and so on. So open awareness is is wide open to open awareness is is wide open to open awareness is is wide open to whatever arises and focused attention. whatever arises and focused attention. whatever arises and focused attention. It could be trained on anything. It could be trained on anything. It could be trained on anything. >> You know, we do both in the app. But >> You know, we do both in the app. But >> You know, we do both in the app. But we're sort of building up a picture we're sort of building up a picture we're sort of building up a picture gradually over time that we're gradually over time that we're gradually over time that we're recognizing, oh yeah, that's sound I'm recognizing, oh yeah, that's sound I'm recognizing, oh yeah, that's sound I'm hearing. Oh yeah, that's seeing. I'm hearing. Oh yeah, that's seeing. I'm hearing. Oh yeah, that's seeing. I'm seeing. Oh yeah, this is sensing in a seeing. Oh yeah, this is sensing in a seeing. Oh yeah, this is sensing in a body sensation. This is emotion body sensation. This is emotion body sensation. This is emotion sensation. These are thoughts I'm sensation. These are thoughts I'm sensation. These are thoughts I'm hearing in my mind or images I'm seeing hearing in my mind or images I'm seeing hearing in my mind or images I'm seeing in my mind. So we're gradually getting a in my mind. So we're gradually getting a in my mind. So we're gradually getting a a fuller and fuller picture of all the a fuller and fuller picture of all the a fuller and fuller picture of all the dimensions of our experience. dimensions of our experience. dimensions of our experience. >> Yeah. Your experience is so much deeper >> Yeah. Your experience is so much deeper >> Yeah. Your experience is so much deeper and more enhanced. That that's honestly and more enhanced. That that's honestly and more enhanced. That that's honestly the thing I said before about what I've the thing I said before about what I've the thing I said before about what I've one of the big benefits I have one of the big benefits I have one of the big benefits I have experienced since using the way experienced since using the way experienced since using the way is I feel that is I feel that is I feel that you know if if my experience before was you know if if my experience before was you know if if my experience before was two-dimensional it now feels like it's two-dimensional it now feels like it's two-dimensional it now feels like it's nine dimensional right there's I'm just nine dimensional right there's I'm just nine dimensional right there's I'm just so much more aware of everything. so much more aware of everything. so much more aware of everything. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Like it's richer. >> Like it's richer. >> Like it's richer. >> Yeah. So it's easier to be in silence >> Yeah. So it's easier to be in silence >> Yeah. So it's easier to be in silence because there there is so much richness because there there is so much richness because there there is so much richness in the silence and I feel you've done a in the silence and I feel you've done a in the silence and I feel you've done a great job in the app of actually helping great job in the app of actually helping great job in the app of actually helping us us us experiencing all these different things experiencing all these different things experiencing all these different things that I'm I'm happy to hear it of course that I'm I'm happy to hear it of course that I'm I'm happy to hear it of course but that is that is exactly the point but that is that is exactly the point but that is that is exactly the point that we've been given such a rich that we've been given such a rich that we've been given such a rich experience but we haven't really been experience but we haven't really been experience but we haven't really been helped to to recognize that you know helped to to recognize that you know helped to to recognize that you know from usually from a young We've been from usually from a young We've been from usually from a young We've been drilled in learning stuff and absorbing drilled in learning stuff and absorbing drilled in learning stuff and absorbing knowledge and information rather than knowledge and information rather than knowledge and information rather than how to live how to how to how to how to live how to how to how to how to live how to how to how to experience the richness. experience the richness. experience the richness. >> I wish kids were all taught to meditate >> I wish kids were all taught to meditate >> I wish kids were all taught to meditate at school at primary school. at school at primary school. at school at primary school. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know what many you know many I used >> You know what many you know many I used >> You know what many you know many I used we we used to have a program actually we we used to have a program actually we we used to have a program actually helping teachers in public schools in in helping teachers in public schools in in helping teachers in public schools in in in our region in the US uh just do in our region in the US uh just do in our region in the US uh just do little hits of meditation in the little hits of meditation in the little hits of meditation in the classroom. classroom. classroom. >> Wow. you know, and and I think there's >> Wow. you know, and and I think there's >> Wow. you know, and and I think there's quite a few programs like that now. May quite a few programs like that now. May quite a few programs like that now. May there be more, you know. there be more, you know. there be more, you know. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Before you mentioned that when you host >> Before you mentioned that when you host >> Before you mentioned that when you host retreats like you are tomorrow, um, retreats like you are tomorrow, um, retreats like you are tomorrow, um, people come people come people come for all kinds of different reasons. Some for all kinds of different reasons. Some for all kinds of different reasons. Some people may have experienced great loss, people may have experienced great loss, people may have experienced great loss, right? And when you said that, I right? And when you said that, I right? And when you said that, I thought, how does meditation thought, how does meditation thought, how does meditation help someone or how might it help help someone or how might it help help someone or how might it help someone deal with grief? someone deal with grief? someone deal with grief? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I feel we've all got deep wisdom in us I feel we've all got deep wisdom in us I feel we've all got deep wisdom in us and there's something about this and there's something about this and there's something about this practice that helps us access that and practice that helps us access that and practice that helps us access that and that that wisdom is large enough to that that wisdom is large enough to that that wisdom is large enough to understand loss and grief to be with understand loss and grief to be with understand loss and grief to be with loss and grief and and even if that loss and grief and and even if that loss and grief and and even if that doesn't come up immediately the practice doesn't come up immediately the practice doesn't come up immediately the practice doesn't shut down grief. It doesn't shut doesn't shut down grief. It doesn't shut doesn't shut down grief. It doesn't shut it down. It provides a a space in which it down. It provides a a space in which it down. It provides a a space in which somebody can be with their grief because somebody can be with their grief because somebody can be with their grief because grief is a human experience. It's a it's grief is a human experience. It's a it's grief is a human experience. It's a it's a beautiful deep part of how we cope a beautiful deep part of how we cope a beautiful deep part of how we cope with very difficult things and and it's with very difficult things and and it's with very difficult things and and it's not something we need to shut down not something we need to shut down not something we need to shut down actually. But of course we live in a actually. But of course we live in a actually. But of course we live in a grief avoidant culture, grief avoidant culture, grief avoidant culture, >> a culture that really on the whole >> a culture that really on the whole >> a culture that really on the whole doesn't like grief, doesn't believe in doesn't like grief, doesn't believe in doesn't like grief, doesn't believe in it. it. it. >> But it's the most natural thing. So >> But it's the most natural thing. So >> But it's the most natural thing. So meditation gives us a space in which we meditation gives us a space in which we meditation gives us a space in which we can know our grief and feel it and be can know our grief and feel it and be can know our grief and feel it and be with it. And it it basically it teaches with it. And it it basically it teaches with it. And it it basically it teaches us, you know, to to be to let a broken us, you know, to to be to let a broken us, you know, to to be to let a broken heart become an open heart, heart become an open heart, heart become an open heart, you know, rather than thinking a you know, rather than thinking a you know, rather than thinking a heartbreak is something I've got to I've heartbreak is something I've got to I've heartbreak is something I've got to I've got I've got to fix. No, it's going to got I've got to fix. No, it's going to got I've got to fix. No, it's going to teach me something. It's going to teach teach me something. It's going to teach teach me something. It's going to teach me how to live with an open heart, me how to live with an open heart, me how to live with an open heart, >> you know. So that's meditation is >> you know. So that's meditation is >> you know. So that's meditation is providing a context. It's giving space providing a context. It's giving space providing a context. It's giving space and time for that to develop, you know. and time for that to develop, you know. and time for that to develop, you know. So that's that's at the simplest level So that's that's at the simplest level So that's that's at the simplest level is it's just space and time to be with is it's just space and time to be with is it's just space and time to be with what we're going through. what we're going through. what we're going through. >> What about trauma? A lot of people >> What about trauma? A lot of people >> What about trauma? A lot of people struggle with trauma. struggle with trauma. struggle with trauma. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um how can meditation help people >> Um how can meditation help people >> Um how can meditation help people process their trauma? process their trauma? process their trauma? >> Yeah. I mean I feel with trauma comes in >> Yeah. I mean I feel with trauma comes in >> Yeah. I mean I feel with trauma comes in many forms and has many causes. complex many forms and has many causes. complex many forms and has many causes. complex trauma and and childhood trauma and trauma and and childhood trauma and trauma and and childhood trauma and immediate kind of catastrophic event immediate kind of catastrophic event immediate kind of catastrophic event trauma. Um they're all a little trauma. Um they're all a little trauma. Um they're all a little different. Although of course there's different. Although of course there's different. Although of course there's common threads. I think on the whole common threads. I think on the whole common threads. I think on the whole meditation I think of it as a part of a meditation I think of it as a part of a meditation I think of it as a part of a part of a support for someone dealing part of a support for someone dealing part of a support for someone dealing with trauma and how to process it. They with trauma and how to process it. They with trauma and how to process it. They may also need some other kinds of help may also need some other kinds of help may also need some other kinds of help and support you know with therapeutic or and support you know with therapeutic or and support you know with therapeutic or whatever other kinds of help. There's a whatever other kinds of help. There's a whatever other kinds of help. There's a lot of research now I think on actually lot of research now I think on actually lot of research now I think on actually the body is a way to work with trauma. the body is a way to work with trauma. the body is a way to work with trauma. Bessel vander cult's amazing book the Bessel vander cult's amazing book the Bessel vander cult's amazing book the body keeps the score he talks about that body keeps the score he talks about that body keeps the score he talks about that you know dance and and sport and things you know dance and and sport and things you know dance and and sport and things that let those be part of the trauma that let those be part of the trauma that let those be part of the trauma release process. release process. release process. >> Yeah. I think meditation can also help >> Yeah. I think meditation can also help >> Yeah. I think meditation can also help us be happier. Happiness doesn't mean us be happier. Happiness doesn't mean us be happier. Happiness doesn't mean just having a smile on our face the just having a smile on our face the just having a smile on our face the whole time. Um but there is this deep whole time. Um but there is this deep whole time. Um but there is this deep sense of happiness that I think we all sense of happiness that I think we all sense of happiness that I think we all do want and we can all access and you do want and we can all access and you do want and we can all access and you know there are so many bits of writing know there are so many bits of writing know there are so many bits of writing in original love that I I just love. But in original love that I I just love. But in original love that I I just love. But I just want to read you this section I just want to read you this section I just want to read you this section from page 87, which I think really from page 87, which I think really from page 87, which I think really speaks to another one of the benefits of speaks to another one of the benefits of speaks to another one of the benefits of meditation that I think many people want meditation that I think many people want meditation that I think many people want even even even if they don't know they want it. Right? if they don't know they want it. Right? if they don't know they want it. Right? All the way through the different All the way through the different All the way through the different possible levels of meditation practice, possible levels of meditation practice, possible levels of meditation practice, we're learning to be happier with less. we're learning to be happier with less. we're learning to be happier with less. We're becoming less focused on what we We're becoming less focused on what we We're becoming less focused on what we want and learning to mind less when what want and learning to mind less when what want and learning to mind less when what we don't want is showing up. I love we don't want is showing up. I love we don't want is showing up. I love that. Learning to mind less when what we that. Learning to mind less when what we that. Learning to mind less when what we don't want is showing up. We're don't want is showing up. We're don't want is showing up. We're discovering an intrinsic happiness discovering an intrinsic happiness discovering an intrinsic happiness within. And so our concern with outer within. And so our concern with outer within. And so our concern with outer circumstances circumstances circumstances is gently tempered and lessened. is gently tempered and lessened. is gently tempered and lessened. We're developing a stability of We're developing a stability of We're developing a stability of character. We could say independent of character. We could say independent of character. We could say independent of condition. condition. condition. I I I just love that so much. It so I I I just love that so much. It so I I I just love that so much. It so speaks to my soul. This idea that speaks to my soul. This idea that speaks to my soul. This idea that actually we can learn to be happier with actually we can learn to be happier with actually we can learn to be happier with less. I feel that's been one of the big less. I feel that's been one of the big less. I feel that's been one of the big changes with me, Henry, over the last changes with me, Henry, over the last changes with me, Henry, over the last decade or so. I I I decade or so. I I I decade or so. I I I really feel I just don't want much stuff really feel I just don't want much stuff really feel I just don't want much stuff these days. I I'm I'm happy with with me these days. I I'm I'm happy with with me these days. I I'm I'm happy with with me and and and >> where I'm at in life and what I do and >> where I'm at in life and what I do and >> where I'm at in life and what I do and who I am. who I am. who I am. >> It's funny, a lot of people get seduced >> It's funny, a lot of people get seduced >> It's funny, a lot of people get seduced by advertising, don't they? But I think by advertising, don't they? But I think by advertising, don't they? But I think you can only get seduced by advertising you can only get seduced by advertising you can only get seduced by advertising when there's something lacking within when there's something lacking within when there's something lacking within you. you. you. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And and you see how like just the way >> And and you see how like just the way >> And and you see how like just the way you describe that, I could totally feel you describe that, I could totally feel you describe that, I could totally feel it as well. it as well. it as well. that the peace and the freedom that the peace and the freedom that the peace and the freedom >> when you're already okay. >> when you're already okay. >> when you're already okay. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. Yeah. And you know and it's it's >> Yeah. Yeah. And you know and it's it's >> Yeah. Yeah. And you know and it's it's available to all of us. That's the thing available to all of us. That's the thing available to all of us. That's the thing I also always really want to convey with I also always really want to convey with I also always really want to convey with meditation. It's not something special. meditation. It's not something special. meditation. It's not something special. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> In the sense that everybody has access >> In the sense that everybody has access >> In the sense that everybody has access to it. to it. to it. >> And the the fruits of it that being at >> And the the fruits of it that being at >> And the the fruits of it that being at home in your own being home in your own being home in your own being >> is is totally available to everyone. >> is is totally available to everyone. >> is is totally available to everyone. Yeah, there could be exceptional Yeah, there could be exceptional Yeah, there could be exceptional circumstances where circumstances that circumstances where circumstances that circumstances where circumstances that are so horrific that they're really are so horrific that they're really are so horrific that they're really pressing in and they need to be pressing in and they need to be pressing in and they need to be addressed before we can be thinking addressed before we can be thinking addressed before we can be thinking about this. But outside of that, about this. But outside of that, about this. But outside of that, basically, you don't have to be basically, you don't have to be basically, you don't have to be remarkable in any way. You know, it's remarkable in any way. You know, it's remarkable in any way. You know, it's just absolutely ordinary, but we're not just absolutely ordinary, but we're not just absolutely ordinary, but we're not used to looking for it or finding it. used to looking for it or finding it. used to looking for it or finding it. So, it seems not ordinary, but it is So, it seems not ordinary, but it is So, it seems not ordinary, but it is ordinary. ordinary. ordinary. >> Everybody's got it. And so I I'm I'm I'm >> Everybody's got it. And so I I'm I'm I'm >> Everybody's got it. And so I I'm I'm I'm really hoping that, you know, that we really hoping that, you know, that we really hoping that, you know, that we can be part of making it better can be part of making it better can be part of making it better recognized, better known, that there's recognized, better known, that there's recognized, better known, that there's this totally ordinary thing that's so this totally ordinary thing that's so this totally ordinary thing that's so good that everybody has good that everybody has good that everybody has >> and and when we find it, when we're at >> and and when we find it, when we're at >> and and when we find it, when we're at home like like that in ourselves, we home like like that in ourselves, we home like like that in ourselves, we just automatically don't want to create just automatically don't want to create just automatically don't want to create so much harm. so much harm. so much harm. >> Yeah. And we we feel less aggression and >> Yeah. And we we feel less aggression and >> Yeah. And we we feel less aggression and hate and we don't want to be we're less hate and we don't want to be we're less hate and we don't want to be we're less prone to being kind of riled up. Yeah. prone to being kind of riled up. Yeah. prone to being kind of riled up. Yeah. And that's honestly how I believe we And that's honestly how I believe we And that's honestly how I believe we change the world. It's one person at a change the world. It's one person at a change the world. It's one person at a time. time. time. I think the change that we all want in I think the change that we all want in I think the change that we all want in the world doesn't actually come from the the world doesn't actually come from the the world doesn't actually come from the outside in. It comes from the inside outside in. It comes from the inside outside in. It comes from the inside out. If I'm able to change my internal out. If I'm able to change my internal out. If I'm able to change my internal experience of life and I always show up experience of life and I always show up experience of life and I always show up with an open heart, then with an open heart, then with an open heart, then that permeates to everyone I interact that permeates to everyone I interact that permeates to everyone I interact with. with. with. >> My family, the supermarket attendants, >> My family, the supermarket attendants, >> My family, the supermarket attendants, the barista who makes me coffee, the barista who makes me coffee, the barista who makes me coffee, whatever, you know, that permeates there whatever, you know, that permeates there whatever, you know, that permeates there and then they're more likely to do that and then they're more likely to do that and then they're more likely to do that in their life, right? Totally. I think in their life, right? Totally. I think in their life, right? Totally. I think too often we're waiting for the outside too often we're waiting for the outside too often we're waiting for the outside world to change world to change world to change >> and when the outside world changes will >> and when the outside world changes will >> and when the outside world changes will change. change. change. >> I'm not sure I think that's the best way >> I'm not sure I think that's the best way >> I'm not sure I think that's the best way to really create this big seismic shift to really create this big seismic shift to really create this big seismic shift across the world. I think literally it across the world. I think literally it across the world. I think literally it happens one person at a time and happens one person at a time and happens one person at a time and meditation can help us live in a much meditation can help us live in a much meditation can help us live in a much more kind and considerate way and if we more kind and considerate way and if we more kind and considerate way and if we all start doing that hence the Dalai all start doing that hence the Dalai all start doing that hence the Dalai Lama quote right Lama quote right Lama quote right >> exactly the world will change. >> exactly the world will change. >> exactly the world will change. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. >> But the responsibility is on all of us I >> But the responsibility is on all of us I >> But the responsibility is on all of us I think on an individual level that if we think on an individual level that if we think on an individual level that if we can sit can sit can sit with the reality of life and commit to with the reality of life and commit to with the reality of life and commit to something like meditation, we will something like meditation, we will something like meditation, we will change and therefore the people around change and therefore the people around change and therefore the people around you will change also. you will change also. you will change also. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> You can imagine that's on a mass scale. >> You can imagine that's on a mass scale. >> You can imagine that's on a mass scale. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Well, that's how you create a new world. >> Well, that's how you create a new world. >> Well, that's how you create a new world. >> Exactly. Beautiful. It's exactly because >> Exactly. Beautiful. It's exactly because >> Exactly. Beautiful. It's exactly because we really are already so interconnected we really are already so interconnected we really are already so interconnected anyway. anyway. anyway. >> Exactly. And you know it's it is exactly >> Exactly. And you know it's it is exactly >> Exactly. And you know it's it is exactly it's like that that ripple that just it's like that that ripple that just it's like that that ripple that just compounds and compounds as it goes. compounds and compounds as it goes. compounds and compounds as it goes. >> One of the things I meant to talk to you >> One of the things I meant to talk to you >> One of the things I meant to talk to you about in our first conversation which we about in our first conversation which we about in our first conversation which we didn't get to and I'd love to talk about didn't get to and I'd love to talk about didn't get to and I'd love to talk about it today is Cohen's [laughter] it today is Cohen's [laughter] it today is Cohen's [laughter] okay okay okay >> now until I came across your work and >> now until I came across your work and >> now until I came across your work and read original love I had never heard of read original love I had never heard of read original love I had never heard of a Cohen. a Cohen. a Cohen. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. So your I guess tradition of >> Right. So your I guess tradition of >> Right. So your I guess tradition of meditation is the Zen tradition. Right. meditation is the Zen tradition. Right. meditation is the Zen tradition. Right. I'd say I've been trained deeply in that I'd say I've been trained deeply in that I'd say I've been trained deeply in that and it's broader. I've done I've done and it's broader. I've done I've done and it's broader. I've done I've done various kinds of training but that's my various kinds of training but that's my various kinds of training but that's my deepest training. Yeah. deepest training. Yeah. deepest training. Yeah. >> Okay. And I guess maybe for people like >> Okay. And I guess maybe for people like >> Okay. And I guess maybe for people like me who don't fully understand the me who don't fully understand the me who don't fully understand the meaning of Zen, you know, it's first of meaning of Zen, you know, it's first of meaning of Zen, you know, it's first of all it's a gorgeous word, but what does all it's a gorgeous word, but what does all it's a gorgeous word, but what does it actually mean? it actually mean? it actually mean? >> Yeah, Zen is a form of Buddhism >> Yeah, Zen is a form of Buddhism >> Yeah, Zen is a form of Buddhism basically that evolved in China and you basically that evolved in China and you basically that evolved in China and you know they claim that it really started know they claim that it really started know they claim that it really started in India. Perhaps there's some truth to in India. Perhaps there's some truth to in India. Perhaps there's some truth to that. And then it came to China and then that. And then it came to China and then that. And then it came to China and then it spread throughout East Asia and it spread throughout East Asia and it spread throughout East Asia and became uh Zen as we know it is largely a became uh Zen as we know it is largely a became uh Zen as we know it is largely a Japanese version of what was developed Japanese version of what was developed Japanese version of what was developed in China somewhat. Anyway, um in China somewhat. Anyway, um in China somewhat. Anyway, um essentially it's a very stripped down essentially it's a very stripped down essentially it's a very stripped down sparse spare form of Buddhism. So sparse spare form of Buddhism. So sparse spare form of Buddhism. So there's really it's it's mostly about there's really it's it's mostly about there's really it's it's mostly about just the meditation and it's usually just the meditation and it's usually just the meditation and it's usually very simple meditation. follow the very simple meditation. follow the very simple meditation. follow the breath or don't even do that just be breath or don't even do that just be breath or don't even do that just be with whatever arises. Um so that's sort with whatever arises. Um so that's sort with whatever arises. Um so that's sort of at its heart is approximately that of at its heart is approximately that of at its heart is approximately that but one of the things that it has done but one of the things that it has done but one of the things that it has done is um pay special attention sometimes to is um pay special attention sometimes to is um pay special attention sometimes to uh what we might call experiences of uh what we might call experiences of uh what we might call experiences of experiences of awakening. That's to say experiences of awakening. That's to say experiences of awakening. That's to say sudden shifts when we we just feel the sudden shifts when we we just feel the sudden shifts when we we just feel the world and oursel in a totally different world and oursel in a totally different world and oursel in a totally different way. when if we we really get a sudden way. when if we we really get a sudden way. when if we we really get a sudden hit that there's no gap between me and hit that there's no gap between me and hit that there's no gap between me and everything or I hardly exist. I'm just everything or I hardly exist. I'm just everything or I hardly exist. I'm just everything else, you know, and I see everything else, you know, and I see everything else, you know, and I see that my sense of self has been in some that my sense of self has been in some that my sense of self has been in some ways an invention or an an imagined ways an invention or an an imagined ways an invention or an an imagined constructed thing. So, you can have constructed thing. So, you can have constructed thing. So, you can have these very strong revelatory moments these very strong revelatory moments these very strong revelatory moments when we experience ourselves in the when we experience ourselves in the when we experience ourselves in the world in a different way. They're world in a different way. They're world in a different way. They're beautiful, beautiful, beautiful thing, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful thing, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful thing, usually very meaningful for somebody and usually very meaningful for somebody and usually very meaningful for somebody and can really change how we feel about can really change how we feel about can really change how we feel about life. So Zen acknowledges that and it life. So Zen acknowledges that and it life. So Zen acknowledges that and it has provided it's these little phrases has provided it's these little phrases has provided it's these little phrases have come out of the tradition of have come out of the tradition of have come out of the tradition of awakened Zen masters over the centuries awakened Zen masters over the centuries awakened Zen masters over the centuries over the millennia that are really over the millennia that are really over the millennia that are really strange but that they there the the idea strange but that they there the the idea strange but that they there the the idea is that they can help precipitate that is that they can help precipitate that is that they can help precipitate that kind of shift in how we experience kind of shift in how we experience kind of shift in how we experience things. You know a famous one would be things. You know a famous one would be things. You know a famous one would be you know this you know the sound of two you know this you know the sound of two you know this you know the sound of two hands clapping but what is the sound of hands clapping but what is the sound of hands clapping but what is the sound of one hand? [clears throat] one hand? [clears throat] one hand? [clears throat] That's a that's a famous one. What is That's a that's a famous one. What is That's a that's a famous one. What is the sound of one hand? the sound of one hand? the sound of one hand? >> And can I just ask right is there a >> And can I just ask right is there a >> And can I just ask right is there a right answer to all of these coins or is right answer to all of these coins or is right answer to all of these coins or is the interpretation the interpretation the interpretation personal and individual? personal and individual? personal and individual? >> Yes, definitely personal. There isn't a >> Yes, definitely personal. There isn't a >> Yes, definitely personal. There isn't a right answer. They're simply little right answer. They're simply little right answer. They're simply little goads or catalysts that sometimes can goads or catalysts that sometimes can goads or catalysts that sometimes can provoke a a really different way of provoke a a really different way of provoke a a really different way of experiencing the world. experiencing the world. experiencing the world. >> Yeah. And but you know I they're very >> Yeah. And but you know I they're very >> Yeah. And but you know I they're very beautiful and remarkable but they're not beautiful and remarkable but they're not beautiful and remarkable but they're not um um um >> that's quite advanced practice isn't it? >> that's quite advanced practice isn't it? >> that's quite advanced practice isn't it? I think so. I think so. I think so. >> That's not but if you you know if you're >> That's not but if you you know if you're >> That's not but if you you know if you're if you're someone who's about to embark if you're someone who's about to embark if you're someone who's about to embark on this 5 minutes a day for 30 days as a on this 5 minutes a day for 30 days as a on this 5 minutes a day for 30 days as a way of trying to get into meditation you way of trying to get into meditation you way of trying to get into meditation you wouldn't necessarily recommend you you wouldn't necessarily recommend you you wouldn't necessarily recommend you you deal with coins just yet. deal with coins just yet. deal with coins just yet. >> Exactly. You don't don't you know don't >> Exactly. You don't don't you know don't >> Exactly. You don't don't you know don't worry about them at all that you know worry about them at all that you know worry about them at all that you know that's that's when we've really embedded that's that's when we've really embedded that's that's when we've really embedded in practice. we got a deep practice in practice. we got a deep practice in practice. we got a deep practice growing and if we're curious the one I growing and if we're curious the one I growing and if we're curious the one I really like I can't remember now but um really like I can't remember now but um really like I can't remember now but um my recollection of this one and please my recollection of this one and please my recollection of this one and please correct me if I've got any any part of correct me if I've got any any part of correct me if I've got any any part of this uh incorrect this uh incorrect this uh incorrect but it's the one where the man walks but it's the one where the man walks but it's the one where the man walks into the butcher shop and asks the into the butcher shop and asks the into the butcher shop and asks the butcher which is the best piece of meat. butcher which is the best piece of meat. butcher which is the best piece of meat. >> The butcher says every piece is the best >> The butcher says every piece is the best >> The butcher says every piece is the best piece. piece. piece. >> Yes. Yes. >> Yes. Yes. >> Yes. Yes. Now I think the reason I really like Now I think the reason I really like Now I think the reason I really like that is because I felt immediately that is because I felt immediately that is because I felt immediately intuitively that I intuitively that I intuitively that I I understood it. I understood it. I understood it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Or at least >> Or at least >> Or at least whether I understood it the way it was whether I understood it the way it was whether I understood it the way it was designed to be understood that I can't designed to be understood that I can't designed to be understood that I can't say. But I at least I at least heard it say. But I at least I at least heard it say. But I at least I at least heard it and I thought I think I get that. So and I thought I think I get that. So and I thought I think I get that. So what I get from that Cohen is a couple what I get from that Cohen is a couple what I get from that Cohen is a couple of things. of things. of things. You know which piece of meat is the best You know which piece of meat is the best You know which piece of meat is the best piece? The butcher says every piece is piece? The butcher says every piece is piece? The butcher says every piece is the best piece. the best piece. the best piece. The first thing I get from that is this The first thing I get from that is this The first thing I get from that is this idea that every moment is unique. idea that every moment is unique. idea that every moment is unique. Every single moment Every single moment Every single moment has its own essence and can't be has its own essence and can't be has its own essence and can't be compared to any other moment because compared to any other moment because compared to any other moment because that moment has a separate essence. So that moment has a separate essence. So that moment has a separate essence. So therefore, every single piece of meat therefore, every single piece of meat therefore, every single piece of meat that I might want to buy from this that I might want to buy from this that I might want to buy from this butcher butcher butcher is perfect in its own right. is perfect in its own right. is perfect in its own right. That's one thing that I take from that. That's one thing that I take from that. That's one thing that I take from that. The other element that I take when I The other element that I take when I The other element that I take when I hear that, Cohen is life is life is just perspective, just perspective, just perspective, right? Who says what is the best piece? right? Who says what is the best piece? right? Who says what is the best piece? Best piece compared to what? Best piece compared to what? Best piece compared to what? Can you experience every moment knowing Can you experience every moment knowing Can you experience every moment knowing this to be the perfect moment for you? this to be the perfect moment for you? this to be the perfect moment for you? Every piece of meat in the shop, I could Every piece of meat in the shop, I could Every piece of meat in the shop, I could buy it, cook it. Can you savor every buy it, cook it. Can you savor every buy it, cook it. Can you savor every single one in the same way? Knowing that single one in the same way? Knowing that single one in the same way? Knowing that they're all going to taste different, they're all going to taste different, they're all going to taste different, but you saying that that tastes better but you saying that that tastes better but you saying that that tastes better than that one is a judgment. It's a than that one is a judgment. It's a than that one is a judgment. It's a perception that I'm putting onto that perception that I'm putting onto that perception that I'm putting onto that moment. The moment is simply me moment. The moment is simply me moment. The moment is simply me experiencing the piece of meat that I experiencing the piece of meat that I experiencing the piece of meat that I bought. If I start to judge one piece as bought. If I start to judge one piece as bought. If I start to judge one piece as better than another, better than another, better than another, that judgment is where a lot of problems that judgment is where a lot of problems that judgment is where a lot of problems start to come in other aspects of our start to come in other aspects of our start to come in other aspects of our life. So that's anyway, please feel free life. So that's anyway, please feel free life. So that's anyway, please feel free to comment, but that's where I get to to comment, but that's where I get to to comment, but that's where I get to when I think about that. Cohen, when I think about that. Cohen, when I think about that. Cohen, >> fantastic. Fantastic. [laughter] >> fantastic. Fantastic. [laughter] >> fantastic. Fantastic. [laughter] >> Two out of five. >> Two out of five. >> Two out of five. >> No, no, no, no, no. You you you nailed >> No, no, no, no, no. You you you nailed >> No, no, no, no, no. You you you nailed it. Beautiful. I mean, imagine like it. Beautiful. I mean, imagine like it. Beautiful. I mean, imagine like >> is that what you think they meant? >> is that what you think they meant? >> is that what you think they meant? >> I'm not going to say definitively. I >> I'm not going to say definitively. I >> I'm not going to say definitively. I don't want to say definitively because don't want to say definitively because don't want to say definitively because one of the things about them is that one of the things about them is that one of the things about them is that they're openended. they're openended. they're openended. There's that they're not closing the There's that they're not closing the There's that they're not closing the book. Here's the right answer. No, it's book. Here's the right answer. No, it's book. Here's the right answer. No, it's what what does it provoke in somebody what what does it provoke in somebody what what does it provoke in somebody who hears it? who hears it? who hears it? >> What does it fertilize in somebody who >> What does it fertilize in somebody who >> What does it fertilize in somebody who hears it? But staying with that one, I hears it? But staying with that one, I hears it? But staying with that one, I mean this very moment now for you know mean this very moment now for you know mean this very moment now for you know for anybody listening just this very for anybody listening just this very for anybody listening just this very moment. What if this is the best moment moment. What if this is the best moment moment. What if this is the best moment no matter what we might be going through no matter what we might be going through no matter what we might be going through this very moment. I mean you said it this very moment. I mean you said it this very moment. I mean you said it very well Ron and like actually this is very well Ron and like actually this is very well Ron and like actually this is truly the only moment. This right now is truly the only moment. This right now is truly the only moment. This right now is what is just this what is just this what is just this right now. This is what is and that's right now. This is what is and that's right now. This is what is and that's true for every single one of us. So can true for every single one of us. So can true for every single one of us. So can we, you know, just sort of by by doing we, you know, just sort of by by doing we, you know, just sort of by by doing the judging thing, we lose that. the judging thing, we lose that. the judging thing, we lose that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> As long as we're judging, comparing, >> As long as we're judging, comparing, >> As long as we're judging, comparing, we're actually we can't recognize we're actually we can't recognize we're actually we can't recognize this very moment now as the only thing this very moment now as the only thing this very moment now as the only thing there is. There's a great saying from a there is. There's a great saying from a there is. There's a great saying from a Zen master called Tikna. said Zen master called Tikna. said Zen master called Tikna. said all there is is this moment and all there is is this moment and all there is is this moment and everything is here. everything is here. everything is here. Everything is here. Everything is here. Everything is here. So that is I mean that is So that is I mean that is So that is I mean that is a marvelous fact. It's a marvelous thing a marvelous fact. It's a marvelous thing a marvelous fact. It's a marvelous thing that always that always that always we're we're right in the middle of we're we're right in the middle of we're we're right in the middle of everything. everything. everything. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I I think Cohen's are I love it. I I think Cohen's are I love it. I I think Cohen's are something that I'm going to spend some something that I'm going to spend some something that I'm going to spend some time with because I'm I am curious. time with because I'm I am curious. time with because I'm I am curious. >> Um, and the reason that one came up, the >> Um, and the reason that one came up, the >> Um, and the reason that one came up, the funny thing is I I brought that up with funny thing is I I brought that up with funny thing is I I brought that up with my kids over dinner a couple of days my kids over dinner a couple of days my kids over dinner a couple of days ago. we you know and I don't know if ago. we you know and I don't know if ago. we you know and I don't know if that's not the done thing or whether you that's not the done thing or whether you that's not the done thing or whether you have to meditate for a series of years have to meditate for a series of years have to meditate for a series of years first before you access this but I love first before you access this but I love first before you access this but I love chatting to my kids about this kind of chatting to my kids about this kind of chatting to my kids about this kind of stuff and it was just interesting to stuff and it was just interesting to stuff and it was just interesting to hear what they were saying about it when hear what they were saying about it when hear what they were saying about it when when they heard it because I think when they heard it because I think when they heard it because I think sometimes kids actually sometimes kids actually sometimes kids actually what I found what I found what I found sometimes kids sometimes kids sometimes kids >> can almost get >> can almost get >> can almost get the depth behind these things better the depth behind these things better the depth behind these things better than adults because they they haven't than adults because they they haven't than adults because they they haven't quite schooled. quite schooled. quite schooled. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> Enough yet out of their >> Enough yet out of their >> Enough yet out of their >> essence. >> essence. >> essence. >> Exactly. Their minds are still open. >> Exactly. Their minds are still open. >> Exactly. Their minds are still open. >> Yeah. So, they get it. >> Yeah. So, they get it. >> Yeah. So, they get it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Whereas, if you've been around the block >> Whereas, if you've been around the block >> Whereas, if you've been around the block a few times and you you've grown cynical a few times and you you've grown cynical a few times and you you've grown cynical and skeptical about the world, you and skeptical about the world, you and skeptical about the world, you you're often close-minded when you hear you're often close-minded when you hear you're often close-minded when you hear these things. these things. these things. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> I mean, there's other comments out there >> I mean, there's other comments out there >> I mean, there's other comments out there that frankly, I don't have a clue what that frankly, I don't have a clue what that frankly, I don't have a clue what they mean. Um, what are some of the they mean. Um, what are some of the they mean. Um, what are some of the other ones? Is it something about Mount other ones? Is it something about Mount other ones? Is it something about Mount Etnner? Is that Etnner? Is that Etnner? Is that >> Oh, there's make make Mount Fuji take >> Oh, there's make make Mount Fuji take >> Oh, there's make make Mount Fuji take three steps. That's another one. three steps. That's another one. three steps. That's another one. >> Yeah, I'm not ready for that one yet. >> Yeah, I'm not ready for that one yet. >> Yeah, I'm not ready for that one yet. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> Another anymore that you want to share >> Another anymore that you want to share >> Another anymore that you want to share with people? with people? with people? >> Uh there's one where I really like this >> Uh there's one where I really like this >> Uh there's one where I really like this one where there's one where a student one where there's one where a student one where there's one where a student asks, "What is the essence of awakening? asks, "What is the essence of awakening? asks, "What is the essence of awakening? What is a true reality of awakening?" What is a true reality of awakening?" What is a true reality of awakening?" And the master says, "Pass me the water And the master says, "Pass me the water And the master says, "Pass me the water jug. Pass me the water jug." So the jug. Pass me the water jug." So the jug. Pass me the water jug." So the student moves the water jug, passes it student moves the water jug, passes it student moves the water jug, passes it to the master and the master, she says, to the master and the master, she says, to the master and the master, she says, "Did you understand?" "Did you understand?" "Did you understand?" And of course the student says, "I And of course the student says, "I And of course the student says, "I didn't understand anything." And she didn't understand anything." And she didn't understand anything." And she says, "Put the water jug back." says, "Put the water jug back." says, "Put the water jug back." And so he puts the jug back. And then And so he puts the jug back. And then And so he puts the jug back. And then she says, "Now did you understand?" I she says, "Now did you understand?" I she says, "Now did you understand?" I said, "I didn't understand it." said, "I didn't understand it." said, "I didn't understand it." [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] I love that one because she's actually I love that one because she's actually I love that one because she's actually saying, saying, saying, you know, this very cup in my hand, what you know, this very cup in my hand, what you know, this very cup in my hand, what if this is the totality of reality? Say, if this is the totality of reality? Say, if this is the totality of reality? Say, well, it obviously isn't. That's just a well, it obviously isn't. That's just a well, it obviously isn't. That's just a little cup. But what if somehow little cup. But what if somehow little cup. But what if somehow everything is really right here? So, as everything is really right here? So, as everything is really right here? So, as I move the water jug, is anything I move the water jug, is anything I move the water jug, is anything absent? Is anything lacking? absent? Is anything lacking? absent? Is anything lacking? Is is there actually any deficiency? Is is there actually any deficiency? Is is there actually any deficiency? anywhere just by in the act of moving anywhere just by in the act of moving anywhere just by in the act of moving that jug. that jug. that jug. What if that itself is a kind of What if that itself is a kind of What if that itself is a kind of miracle? miracle? miracle? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, I guess in so many different I mean, I guess in so many different I mean, I guess in so many different ways throughout this conversation, ways throughout this conversation, ways throughout this conversation, Henry, we're talking about the ability Henry, we're talking about the ability Henry, we're talking about the ability to fully inhabit the moment. to fully inhabit the moment. to fully inhabit the moment. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Fully. >> Fully. >> Fully. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That the moment has multiple dimensions >> That the moment has multiple dimensions >> That the moment has multiple dimensions to it. And so often we think we're in to it. And so often we think we're in to it. And so often we think we're in the moment, but we're not. the moment, but we're not. the moment, but we're not. >> Yes. We could be, you know, going >> Yes. We could be, you know, going >> Yes. We could be, you know, going through mental time travel, but we could through mental time travel, but we could through mental time travel, but we could also just be seeing and experience of also just be seeing and experience of also just be seeing and experience of the moment in just one or two dimensions the moment in just one or two dimensions the moment in just one or two dimensions rather than all the dimensions that do rather than all the dimensions that do rather than all the dimensions that do exist. And I think exist. And I think exist. And I think >> that's the gift that meditation can give >> that's the gift that meditation can give >> that's the gift that meditation can give us if we can set the intention and make us if we can set the intention and make us if we can set the intention and make the time each day, which is not very the time each day, which is not very the time each day, which is not very much, to actually commit to the much, to actually commit to the much, to actually commit to the practice. practice. practice. >> Exactly. um >> Exactly. um >> Exactly. um >> just a little bit each day and it just >> just a little bit each day and it just >> just a little bit each day and it just grows by itself. grows by itself. grows by itself. >> Is there something that you think is >> Is there something that you think is >> Is there something that you think is important for people to know about important for people to know about important for people to know about meditation that we haven't covered yet meditation that we haven't covered yet meditation that we haven't covered yet in today's conversation, Henry? in today's conversation, Henry? in today's conversation, Henry? I could just say it gives I could just say it gives I could just say it gives so much meaning to life. I mean, it's so much meaning to life. I mean, it's so much meaning to life. I mean, it's it's a homecoming, you know? It's it's it's a homecoming, you know? It's it's it's a homecoming, you know? It's it's you coming home to your true place in you coming home to your true place in you coming home to your true place in the universe, you know, and I mean, in a the universe, you know, and I mean, in a the universe, you know, and I mean, in a way, what could be more important? way, what could be more important? way, what could be more important? >> What can be more important? I completely >> What can be more important? I completely >> What can be more important? I completely agree. Well, Henry, listen. Um, I love agree. Well, Henry, listen. Um, I love agree. Well, Henry, listen. Um, I love talking to you. I would highly, highly talking to you. I would highly, highly talking to you. I would highly, highly encourage people check out original love encourage people check out original love encourage people check out original love and your memoir, One Blade of Grass. Um, and your memoir, One Blade of Grass. Um, and your memoir, One Blade of Grass. Um, but also don't just think about but also don't just think about but also don't just think about meditation. Don't just think, well, at meditation. Don't just think, well, at meditation. Don't just think, well, at some point in the future when I've got some point in the future when I've got some point in the future when I've got time, time, time, >> I'll bring it into my life. >> I'll bring it into my life. >> I'll bring it into my life. >> Get going today, >> Get going today, >> Get going today, >> right? Set the intention. >> right? Set the intention. >> right? Set the intention. >> Um, if it speaks to you, you know, >> Um, if it speaks to you, you know, >> Um, if it speaks to you, you know, download the way and do those 30 free download the way and do those 30 free download the way and do those 30 free meditations meditations meditations >> and see how you go. You know, um, one >> and see how you go. You know, um, one >> and see how you go. You know, um, one thing we didn't mention before, I just thing we didn't mention before, I just thing we didn't mention before, I just want to quickly ask you, some people get want to quickly ask you, some people get want to quickly ask you, some people get confused with things like posture when confused with things like posture when confused with things like posture when they're meditating. So, do you need a they're meditating. So, do you need a they're meditating. So, do you need a cushion, you know, a meditation cushion? cushion, you know, a meditation cushion? cushion, you know, a meditation cushion? Um, Um, Um, is it okay if you slump against a wall is it okay if you slump against a wall is it okay if you slump against a wall or do you need a straight back? Should or do you need a straight back? Should or do you need a straight back? Should it be on the floor or on a chair? If you it be on the floor or on a chair? If you it be on the floor or on a chair? If you could just quickly touch off those could just quickly touch off those could just quickly touch off those basics for people because I know they're basics for people because I know they're basics for people because I know they're going to ask me on Instagram otherwise, going to ask me on Instagram otherwise, going to ask me on Instagram otherwise, you know, what they're meant to do. you know, what they're meant to do. you know, what they're meant to do. Could you just sort of walk us through Could you just sort of walk us through Could you just sort of walk us through how important those things are? how important those things are? how important those things are? >> Yeah. With posture, the the most >> Yeah. With posture, the the most >> Yeah. With posture, the the most important thing actually is to be important thing actually is to be important thing actually is to be comfortable. Traditionally, meditation comfortable. Traditionally, meditation comfortable. Traditionally, meditation is done sitting and that's what I is done sitting and that's what I is done sitting and that's what I usually recommend unless there's some usually recommend unless there's some usually recommend unless there's some reason that that's uncomfortable for reason that that's uncomfortable for reason that that's uncomfortable for you. So, just sitting in a chair is you. So, just sitting in a chair is you. So, just sitting in a chair is totally fine. If you want to, you can totally fine. If you want to, you can totally fine. If you want to, you can sit with a free back so you where you're sit with a free back so you where you're sit with a free back so you where you're not reclining against a back, you're not reclining against a back, you're not reclining against a back, you're sitting, you know, with your spine sitting, you know, with your spine sitting, you know, with your spine upright. And then it's really important upright. And then it's really important upright. And then it's really important that it be balanced. So you want to make that it be balanced. So you want to make that it be balanced. So you want to make sure that your your ears are over your sure that your your ears are over your sure that your your ears are over your shoulders and your shoulders are over shoulders and your shoulders are over shoulders and your shoulders are over your hips and that your your balance so your hips and that your your balance so your hips and that your your balance so you can be relaxed, but that's not that you can be relaxed, but that's not that you can be relaxed, but that's not that important. The number one thing is important. The number one thing is important. The number one thing is comfort and any kind of chair will do. comfort and any kind of chair will do. comfort and any kind of chair will do. If you want to sit on a cushion designed If you want to sit on a cushion designed If you want to sit on a cushion designed for meditation, of course, feel free to. for meditation, of course, feel free to. for meditation, of course, feel free to. Uh if you want to sit on a couch, if you Uh if you want to sit on a couch, if you Uh if you want to sit on a couch, if you want to sit on the edge of your bed, want to sit on the edge of your bed, want to sit on the edge of your bed, whatever works for you most readily is whatever works for you most readily is whatever works for you most readily is is the best place to be. So, it's not is the best place to be. So, it's not is the best place to be. So, it's not terribly important. terribly important. terribly important. >> Yeah, that's interesting because I think >> Yeah, that's interesting because I think >> Yeah, that's interesting because I think sometimes if you're trying to think sometimes if you're trying to think sometimes if you're trying to think about your posture and that straight about your posture and that straight about your posture and that straight back whilst trying to meditate, I think back whilst trying to meditate, I think back whilst trying to meditate, I think for some people it makes the meditation for some people it makes the meditation for some people it makes the meditation even harder because you're not actually even harder because you're not actually even harder because you're not actually thinking about the meditation. You're thinking about the meditation. You're thinking about the meditation. You're thinking about, oh, my back hurts, you thinking about, oh, my back hurts, you thinking about, oh, my back hurts, you know, am I doing it right? know, am I doing it right? know, am I doing it right? >> Yeah. And you might keep adjusting like >> Yeah. And you might keep adjusting like >> Yeah. And you might keep adjusting like am I am I really balanced? It doesn't am I am I really balanced? It doesn't am I am I really balanced? It doesn't matter that much, you know. We we we get matter that much, you know. We we we get matter that much, you know. We we we get deeper in it actually. Usually the more deeper in it actually. Usually the more deeper in it actually. Usually the more still we are. still we are. still we are. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So whatever helps us be still is better. >> So whatever helps us be still is better. >> So whatever helps us be still is better. >> I personally like to keep practice as >> I personally like to keep practice as >> I personally like to keep practice as simple as possible with everything. I simple as possible with everything. I simple as possible with everything. I don't like loads of equipment that I don't like loads of equipment that I don't like loads of equipment that I need. Having said that with meditation, need. Having said that with meditation, need. Having said that with meditation, I did buy a cushion. And I think what's I did buy a cushion. And I think what's I did buy a cushion. And I think what's really helped for me is that it's a really helped for me is that it's a really helped for me is that it's a cushion and a color that I really like. cushion and a color that I really like. cushion and a color that I really like. And so it's helped me And so it's helped me And so it's helped me almost make the intention that this is almost make the intention that this is almost make the intention that this is an important practice for me in my life. an important practice for me in my life. an important practice for me in my life. and that when I sit on the cushion, it and that when I sit on the cushion, it and that when I sit on the cushion, it signals to me in my brain that actually signals to me in my brain that actually signals to me in my brain that actually you're now about to meditate. I don't you're now about to meditate. I don't you're now about to meditate. I don't think you need it. But I personally have think you need it. But I personally have think you need it. But I personally have found that quite helpful. found that quite helpful. found that quite helpful. >> Yeah, that that's lovely. So making it >> Yeah, that that's lovely. So making it >> Yeah, that that's lovely. So making it work for you is the is the big thing. work for you is the is the big thing. work for you is the is the big thing. Make personalize it so that you feel Make personalize it so that you feel Make personalize it so that you feel good about it. you know, feel good about it. you know, feel good about it. you know, feel comfortable in your body, comfortable comfortable in your body, comfortable comfortable in your body, comfortable with the fact that you're doing it for with the fact that you're doing it for with the fact that you're doing it for whatever that period of time is that whatever that period of time is that whatever that period of time is that you've selected, 30 days, 40 days, you've selected, 30 days, 40 days, you've selected, 30 days, 40 days, whatever it is, you know. So, let it be whatever it is, you know. So, let it be whatever it is, you know. So, let it be the let yourself have the setup that you the let yourself have the setup that you the let yourself have the setup that you want to have, want to have, want to have, >> you know. So, whether it's a nice >> you know. So, whether it's a nice >> you know. So, whether it's a nice cushion that you know you feel good with cushion that you know you feel good with cushion that you know you feel good with or chair you like, a corner of the room or chair you like, a corner of the room or chair you like, a corner of the room that you like, that do it the way that that you like, that do it the way that that you like, that do it the way that feels good for you. feels good for you. feels good for you. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, Henry, I'm a huge fan >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, Henry, I'm a huge fan >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, Henry, I'm a huge fan of what you're doing. I think the Way of what you're doing. I think the Way of what you're doing. I think the Way app is absolutely brilliant, and I think app is absolutely brilliant, and I think app is absolutely brilliant, and I think it's going to get so many people into it's going to get so many people into it's going to get so many people into meditation. meditation. meditation. And beyond that, I think it's going to And beyond that, I think it's going to And beyond that, I think it's going to help create a kinder and more help create a kinder and more help create a kinder and more compassionate world. So, thank you for compassionate world. So, thank you for compassionate world. So, thank you for all that you do in the world. Thank you all that you do in the world. Thank you all that you do in the world. Thank you for making the science come to the for making the science come to the for making the science come to the studio again. And uh thank you for studio again. And uh thank you for studio again. And uh thank you for another wonderful conversation. another wonderful conversation. another wonderful conversation. >> Oh, thank you so much for having me. >> Oh, thank you so much for having me. >> Oh, thank you so much for having me. It's a real deep honor and pleasure. If It's a real deep honor and pleasure. If It's a real deep honor and pleasure. If you enjoyed that [music] conversation, you enjoyed that [music] conversation, you enjoyed that [music] conversation, then I think you are really going to then I think you are really going to then I think you are really going to enjoy this one that I picked out enjoy this one that I picked out enjoy this one that I picked out especially. [music] especially. [music] especially. [music] It's only when you learn what to do with It's only when you learn what to do with It's only when you learn what to do with your unhappiness your unhappiness your unhappiness that you can really break through and that you can really break through and that you can really break through and find stable happiness.