Your Bulk Is Not Working ! Here Are the 5 Signs You Are Doing It Wrong | Mind Pump 2943

Key Takeaway

Treat your bulk like a performance phase, not a license to eat anything. Starting today, track one or two key lifts, your evening hunger, energy, and sleep for a week. If you are losing weight, routinely hungry, or not getting noticeably stronger, add a protein-centered whole-food meal rather than waiting until cravings push you toward highly processed food. A productive surplus should leave you fueled, satisfied, stronger, and better recovered.

Episode Overview

The Mind Pump hosts explain why a calorie surplus or “reverse diet” can fail even when someone believes they are bulking. They identify practical warning signs—including weight loss, persistent hunger, stalled strength, low energy, and poor sleep—and emphasize whole foods, sufficient protein, appropriate programming, and progressive strength gains.

Full Transcript

Transcript of Your Bulk Is Not Working ! Here Are the 5 Signs You Are Doing It Wrong | Mind Pump 2943 from Mind Pump Show. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

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We picked four of them. From our Instagram page, Mind Pump Media, we answered them, but this was after the intro. Today's intro was 62 minutes long. This is where we talk about muscle building and fat loss and diet and current events. Again, if you want to post a question that we can potentially pick, go to Instagram, Mind Pump Media. Now, this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Paleo Valley. Today, we talked about their protein. It's a bone broth protein, which means it's super easy to digest.

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Real quick, if you love us like we love you, why not show up by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over at mindpumpstore.com? I'm talking right now. Hit pause. Head on over to mindpumpstore.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. Bulking, reverse dieting, eating in a calorie surplus. You're trying it, but is it working? Here are the signs that what you're doing isn't working. If this is happening, let's fix it. Let's go. Fat. That's a visible sign. Slow down. Let's back up.

Let's back up for a second. Doing it wrong, guy. Pay attention to that one. You're doing it wrong, guy. So let's back up for a second. So let's explain what bulking is, and it's also being referred to as reverse dieting. Same thing, right? It's the attempt to eat in a calorie surplus or eat more than your body's burning with the goal being building muscle, maybe balancing hormones, boosting metabolic rate, maybe setting yourself up for a fat loss phase in the future. But the idea is ultimately, regardless of what the goal is, it can be hormone balancing, it can be better health, it can be better sleep, whatever.

We're trying to build muscle, and we're doing so with good strength training programming, and we're eating in a calorie surplus. Now bulking used to be something that only hardcore bodybuilders or dudes like me when I was a kid that just wanted to gain weight because I was skinny, we're the only ones that ever tried bulking. Nobody else, the word bulk is a turnoff to most people. In fact, that's why we say reverse dieting oftentimes because it's such a turnoff. But the idea and the understanding and what it does for the body now has become so popular that you're seeing more and more people understand the benefit and attempt to move in this direction.

And in my career, all the time I've been in the fitness industry, which is well over 20 years, I've seen more women now go on a bulk than ever before. And that was almost never the case in the past. So, but, and a lot of it has to do with fear or just not the right information around it. Yeah, do you think that there is a tendency between the sexes? Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think, and to be more specific, who feels really skinny has a tendency to overdo it, for sure.

Everybody else tends to underdo. In fact, one of the clear signs that your bulk isn't where it could be, or your reverse diet, you know, if we want to call it that, isn't where it could be, is you've lost weight. If you're losing weight on the scale and you're in a bulk, you're not eating nearly enough. Now, here's the, this is where it gets interesting. Some people would welcome that, right? They're going to go on a bulk because they need to speed up their metabolism, let's say.

They want to build some muscle. They see the weight go down, which sometimes happens when you start to bump your calories a little bit and you're working out a little harder as a result. And then people are like, this is awesome. This is exactly where I want to be because I was going to do a cut anyway afterwards. But I'm here to tell you, you are not reaping the benefits, the maximum benefits of eating in a surplus. If you're losing weight, you're not eating enough. The weight shouldn't change on the scale at all.

In many cases, it should go up a little bit, if you're trying to burn body fat. We just had a live caller who did go up, actually, in 90 days and still could have gone up more. What was the sign? Right. He was hungry. Yeah, he was hungry and he looked leaner. And so this was a caller who was coming from a place of being, you know, on the leaner, skinnier side who needs to put weight on. He was undereating and kind of overtraining. Yes, and we changed his programming.

We increased calories and checked back in with him 90 days later. And 90 days later, he gained six pounds on the scale. So based off of that, you go like, oh, he did phenomenal, and he did. He did a really good job. I mean, his intentions were right and he did well. But he could have done even better had he ate even more, which I think that's even difficult for people as they go like, oh, so to your point, if you gain no weight or you lost weight, you definitely didn't go the right way.

Even sometimes when you gain a little bit, you could have seen a lot better results. And I see that sometimes. Sometimes people that I would put on a bulk see minimal gain on the scale and feel like, oh, this didn't work. And a lot of times it's because they were so fearful of eating more calories and or what they might see is like they didn't see a lot of strength gains and it's because they weren't fueling the workouts. So even though you, obviously losing weight in a bulk is a definite red flag that you failed.

But sometimes even maintaining or a small gain is, I mean, you could have done a lot more. Yeah, I think, and the reason why this is so important to speak to is that, so in the past, bulking was always about gaining weight. It always was about gaining weight. Nobody went on a bulk in the past with the intention of their weight staying the same. That just didn't, it doesn't make sense. It didn't make sense. Well, back then, do you feel like there was this mentality like get big or die, like it was like a mass focus, like because you had kind of in pop culture, there was a lot more like big pronounced like bodybuilder type people.

Like I feel like that sentiment sort of like went away for a while. Yes, but I think more than what you're saying, Justin, I think it's that more women are bulking than ever before. Well, yeah, that shifted. That shifted it and women are afraid more than men, not saying that there aren't men who are afraid of this, but more than men of gaining any weight on the scale. So in the past, when you went on a bulk, it was to gain weight. Now the idea was to gain muscle.

So nobody went on a bulk to gain like just a bunch of body fat unless you had a medical condition or very special situations. In some cases, that's what you need to do. But for the most part, we went on a bulk or everybody went on a bulk to gain weight. What happened was we saw the other benefits of a bulk, which were faster metabolic rate, setting you up for a more effective cut later, right? Because you have a faster metabolic rate. Now I can cut later with higher calories because my metabolic rate is higher.

Better hormone balance. You take somebody, you take a man or woman who chronically under eats and over trains and you feed them more and fix their programming, their hormones balance. Suddenly they feel amazing, their libido goes up. So all those other effects are now what people are chasing, but they're also saying, I don't want any weight to go up on the scale. And so this is actually a problem because part of the reason why all those things improve is because you're gaining weight on the scale.

Mostly lean body mass and maybe yes, some body fat. But that's why in those cases, you notice all those improvements because you needed the extra energy. So if you're losing weight, you go on a bulk, you go down two pounds, not enough. You're not eating enough. You're failing on the bulk. I really feel like there hasn't been that big of a shift in my opinion on the male side. This has been way more unique or different for on the female side. Just 25 years ago, coked out skinny was the look.

And so it was eat as little as possible, burn as much as you can at all cost. You didn't want any muscle. That wasn't even desirable at that point. Then we talked recently on a podcast about the G.I. Jane and Terminator, Sarah Connor movement where like, okay, I like a little bit of shoulders and arms. And so there was a little bit of acceptance there of okay, I'm down with some muscle, but then still fear around eating enough calories to probably build for most people. Then we've gone on to like CrossFit looking girls and J-Lo and ass.

It's like, okay, now I want a big ass. Now I'm okay with even more. I want shape, sculpt. Yeah, I want more shape and sculpt and even more muscle. And so it's now we're getting a little more comfortable. And the narrative has been, well, because you pull up G.I. Jane and look at her, you don't have to get a real aggressive bulk to get to her point. But if you definitely want shape like a CrossFit or you want ass like J-Lo, you're gonna have to eat more in bulk.

And so I feel like, okay, if you want that look, you gotta build. If you want shape and curve like that, you've definitely gotta eat a lot more calories to get there in order to build enough muscle to put on that much shape and curve. And so we've just watched this transition over the last two decades from absolute skinny, skinny, and that's what everyone was desiring, to this really more muscular, full look. And it's a good transition, but the fear is still there. It's awesome. I want the shape, but I don't want the weight to go up on the scale, which is a mistake because it will go up if you gain muscle.

That's what ends up happening. The other one, which you kind of talked about earlier, Adam, is if you're, by the way, if you're doing a good bulk, in other words, you're doing the right kind of bulk, you're still eating whole natural foods. So you're not eating garbage. That's a mistake that people made in the past. Like when I was younger, it was gain weight at any cost. Calorie driven. It didn't matter what you ate, just eat everything. If you stick to whole natural foods, your bulk's gonna be clean.

And if you're on a bulk and you're eating whole natural foods and you're hungry and you're not eating when you're hungry, you're failing. You shouldn't feel hungry on a bulk. You should feel hungry on a cut. Like that's normal. You're in a calorie deficit. You're gonna be some hunger. But if you're finding yourself at seven o'clock at night and you're in quote unquote a bulk, you're like, man, I'm hungry again. Like what should I do? No, I'm not gonna eat. I'm afraid of what, gaining body fat?

No, no, no. Your body's telling you, feed me. Go get that whole natural food meal. Don't go eat garbage and eat it and eat it. You shouldn't feel hungry on a bulk. You should feel satisfied. By the way, let me tell you what happens sometimes to that person is they feel that way night one and they resist because of fear of putting any bad weight on and they again, man, hungry again, resist. And then third night, I can't do it. And then they eat something that's not ideal.

Then they go off. And they go off the rails and then they put some body fat on. And so. And they're like, I knew it. Exactly. Whereas if you would have just stuck to the plan of eat when you're hungry, just make whole foods, make the meal protein centric, and that both those nights in a row ate that and been satisfied. Totally. You would have built muscle. But what happens sometimes is we play this, they play this, we or any client in this situation a lot of times will play this psychological game of like, I already ate my four meals for the day.

I can't eat anymore. Yet they just had a great training session. They've had a week in a row of consistently and their body is wanting to build. And it's telling them that they need to be fed and they're afraid to do it. And so they resist, they resist that feeling. And that feeling then turns into cravings. And then that cravings makes it even more difficult. And they finally go like, oh, I've been so good for the last two weeks. I'm going to eat this. And they go all out.

Yeah, because if you eat garbage food, heavily processed food or fast food or whatever, you'll eat way more than your body needs in terms of calories. Those foods are engineered to make you overeat. So it's one thing to reach for, you know, my bowl of ground beef and rice or versus hit reaching for pizza. You know, if I have that pizza, yeah, I'll satisfy the hunger, but I've eaten. a good 500 more calories than I would have, and probably not even hit my protein targets as a result.

Here's a huge red flag that your bulk isn't moving in the right direction. Your strength's not going up. If you're in a bulk and your strength isn't going up, it's either I'm not eating enough, I'm not eating enough protein, or my programming is wrong. It's one of those three things or all of the above. You should 100% get stronger in a bulk. In fact, this is what I pay attention to most with my clients. When my clients are reverse dieting on a bulk, what I'm looking at most closely is strength.

Most closely. Why? Because it's so objective. It's nothing subjective about it. You either lift more or you don't, so it's very clear. I know this. I know if strength continues to go up consistently, muscle follows. I know this every single time. Someone who's attempting a bulk that falls in this category, two things that I see the most common. Programming is inappropriate, so either they're on the wrong program, been doing the same thing for too long, inappropriate amount of balance of intensity and volume and all the things, and so they need a better program.

Or two, they don't eat enough protein, but they're eating a bunch of other calories. Or both. Right. Yeah, right. A lot of times it's that. That's what I mean. Someone who feels very confident, I'm in a bulk, but I'm not seeing the results. My strength isn't going up. It's normally those two things, one of those two or both those things that your programming isn't appropriate or good for you, and two, you're eating extra calories but not hitting your protein. By the way, oftentimes I've heard this.

I'll talk to somebody like this who's afraid of gaining the wrong weight, but we're convincing them to go on a bulk or reverse diet, and I'll ask them, are you stronger? The answer they'll give me is like, yeah, I think so. Okay, you're not stronger. That's you thinking you're a little stronger or hoping that you're a little stronger because you're either afraid of adding more calories, or usually that's what it is. You'll know you're stronger because it's pronounced and it's clear. You've added 10 pounds to your lift or 15 pounds to your lift, or you're doing five more reps.

It's not a, I think I'm a little stronger. Your bulk should clearly produce some strength gains, clearly, otherwise it's a big red flag. Here's another one. Energy isn't any better. One of the characteristics of eating in a proper calorie surplus with proper strength training or workout programming is you feel better. You've got more energy to work with. You feel better. A cut, by the way, a cut. Now, in some cases, a cut initially makes someone feel better, especially if they reduce inflammation or, most importantly, change the kinds of foods that they eat, but all things being equal, a whole food-based diet, both ends, going on a cut versus going to surplus, the cut can oftentimes cause a little bit of a dip in energy or athletic performance.

In fact, that's expected. Why? I'm eating less energy than I'm burning. So that's just, it's like anything. I have less energy. Fuel is in there, yeah. When you're in a proper bulk or reverse diet, you should have more energy. You should feel better. In fact, this is pretty much always the case when it's done properly is people come back and say, I just feel a lot better. So you think it's mainly the types of foods that they're choosing within this bulk that would kind of determine that energy and also inflammation and things like digestion?

Or not enough. Or not enough, yeah, yeah. Yeah, all things being equal, still good, whole food-based diet, high protein, more calories or surplus, you'll have more energy. Obviously, there's more energy that's available. You know, it's interesting when you look on studies on individuals when they take people and they cut their calories. So they've done these really cool studies where they'll put trackers on people that will track their movement. Okay, so it just tracks their daily movement. Then they'll cut their calories or bump their calories. Whenever you cut someone's calories, like clockwork, their daily activity drops.

Even though they're not aware of it, oftentimes people ask them, are you moving less? They're like, no, I'm not moving less. But they pick up on it less, they're standing less, they're walking less, they're moving their hands less. That's how your body conserves energy. When your calories go up, you tend to move more and have more energy. So you should feel more energy on a good bulk. There's a compounding effect there, too. I've noticed this with my own behaviors. Calories go up, energy goes up, strength and consistency in the gym goes up, also daily activity all goes up.

And the reverse is true. And to your point, if you were to ask me, and I know because I've tracked so diligently for so long, and so obviously I'd have the right answer, but if I didn't have all that data and you asked me, I would think on the days that I'm really sedentary, that it's really not that big of a difference than on the other days. Because it feels the same. I feel just as tired from work. I feel like I accomplished the same amount, but it's wild how much of that subconsciously, when you are fueling the body properly, you're training properly, how much your NEAT goes up.

NEAT goes up organically, and yet subconsciously, it feels the same. Yeah, because you're counting structured movement and exercise. You're not counting the like, I'm sitting in my chair swinging side to side or standing up more and stuff like that, which all, like I said, it's very well documented. They track this. Your body will modify that movement and you won't even be aware of it unless it's extreme. To me, we've talked about it on the podcast many times. I've shared my own journey of like, I've connected it to like, I'm a better husband and father when I'm training and eating well, and that's part of what keeps me motivated.

Yeah, I want to talk about what it's like being a husband or a father pre-contest. Yeah. You know, on a dream diet. Yeah, I know. This is a well-known fact. No, you're 100% right. You're right. Nobody wants to be around, because I have friends that are bodybuilders, and their wives know, all right, we're going to pre-contest, so-and-so is going to be a jerk. Yeah. And we just got to deal with it. Yeah. You don't want to be doing low-calorie or low-energy. You don't want to do stuff like that.

And the opposite is true when you're fueled properly and you're working out in a bulk like that. It feels amazing. And I don't, you like, I just get up and do more stuff. I see the kitchen's dirty. I just get up and I clean like that, versus put me in a calorie deficit and or missing workouts and it's like, yeah, I don't have, I just don't want to do it. You sit there, you're not going to get up. You know? And it's taken years of really peering into that to connect those dots and go like, oh, wow, there's a significant difference.

I remember in the extreme case, Adam, when you were doing the experiment with the GLE where you were just eating very little just to like, let's see what people experienced. I remember you telling me the thing you noticed the most was the low energy. Yeah. You were like, I have to decide to either clean the house or work out. Can't do both. Yeah. Oh yeah. No, it was an either or for sure because I knew, I didn't want to do either, but I knew that- You had to do one of them.

Yeah. I was like, I can't fail on the workout thing and fail as a husband. It's like, I got to choose. You got to pick one. Yeah. And I wasn't doing both though. There was no way. I just didn't have it in me to do both and I battled that daily. Daily felt that. Now, you're highlighting an extreme example of that, but I mean, I think that is happening to us on a smaller scale and you just don't realize it and that's why because it's not as extreme, so it's not as obvious to people, but that's happening.

It's so well documented that people will often argue that the metabolism boost that comes from a reverse diet is more to do with this kind of activity outside of exercise. Now, that doesn't cover it all, but it is so well documented that it does happen. No, that's one of the arguments I've always made in defense of when people try and argue that like one pound of muscle doesn't burn that many more calories. It's okay, fair enough. If you cut out the tissue and you measure it in the lab and it doesn't tell a full story and you're right.

It doesn't account for a guy with five more pounds of muscle, what he has to do inside the gym to have built that muscle, keep that muscle, and the food he has to fuel in order to do all that. It gives him more energy that didn't. So there is this massive compounding effect that happens subconsciously that all plays in the factor. At the end of the day, when we're training clients, it doesn't matter how we come. I don't care how I got her metabolism to 800 more calories a day.

But we do it all the time. Yeah. It happens. Exactly. Predictable. I don't care to fight over the science of exactly the mechanism at which got there. I just know the facts of I've done hundreds of people. I've seen that happen too. And at the end of the day, if it works for them and they now have attached and created those behaviors for the rest of their life, it's working. That's right. And lastly, your sleep isn't better. So one of the characteristics of being in a deficit is you don't have good sleep or your sleep doesn't feel restful.

So anybody who's been in a deficit for a long period of time knows what this is like. It's either I can't get enough sleep or man, I'm going to bed and I got this kind of restless feeling. Yeah. Being in a surplus, having that much energy improves sleep across the board. Of course, again, this is in the context of a healthy bulk, whole natural foods, appropriate training. But if you're going in a bulk and your sleep isn't better or worse, it's worse, then that's kind of a red flag that you're not doing it in the right way.

You know, you didn't list this on here, but I think it deserves an honorable mention that I've connected the dots too. I've heard from clients a lot of times. Impact on libido. I've seen a lot of clients who, yes, when they- And it goes down in the cut. Right. When they are eating, when I put them on a bulk, it's one of the things I constantly would hear feedback of like- Within a week. Yeah. I know. Libido. And a lot of times when you have been underfed for such a long period of time, libido is one of the things that is crashed.

Even for people who thought they had an okay libido. Oh. Right? They'll be like, oh, no, I'm fine. Yeah. And then they go on a bulk. Yeah. Then they go on a bulk and they're like, wow. You know? And again, there's probably a compounding effect there. They're bulking. They're building more muscle. That's where they burn the extra calories, Justin. That's it, man. That's it. Perfect. Dude, totally. All right. I was going to, I got to bring this up again. So recently I talked about how old machines, because I'm going to a gym right now that has both new and old machines, because the gym has been there for a long time.

And everything's kept up really well. So I like older machines, like machines from like the 90s, early 2000s. None are from the 80s, although I'd love to find those. But they made them different back in the day. I talked about this on a previous episode, where old machines were really designed for bodybuilders and athletes. New machines are designed to have a small footprint, be easy to use. Safety. And safety in the average person. So a lot of things are different between the old machines and the new machines.

The old machines were more hardcore than the new machines. And there's one other, and I talked about some of the differences, but there's one big, I just picked this up today. I haven't done a leg extension in a long time. Okay. I rarely ever do leg extensions when I work out my legs. I prefer doing other exercises. But anytime I do do a leg extension at a gym, I could do the whole stack. The stack is never heavy. I'll do 25 reps with the whole stack.

The old ones are, bro, the stacks on old machines were made for bodybuilders. I automatically went whole stack, and I was like, oh boy, that's way too heavy. And I'm like, oh yeah, I remember. Old machines were for strong dudes. So whole stack. The starting point is already kind of heavy. I'll typically use the whole stack on new machines in any exercise. So funny you say, because I trained in the gym yesterday, and I used a machine, I used a dip machine, and I was doing, stacked the whole thing.

I'm just saying. It's just silly. Bro, use a dip machine from 97, bro. You're going to go halfway down the stack if you're lucky. Old school ones where they had like belts on them and stuff. Yeah, dude. It's got a holding down. A little ricotta chair. Yeah. I was cracking up, man. A radiator belt holding it together. Yeah. I literally just took the pen, and I went all the way to the bottom just out of habit. And I'm like, pick myself up from the chair. I'm like, oh no, dude.

What is going on? Anyway, I got to tell you guys about my uncle who, he got back to me. So I told you guys last weekend we did tomatoes. So my whole family came together. And my uncle comes up, and he doesn't work out or anything, but I guess I'm on his algorithm. So he comes up to me and he goes, hey, one of the products you talk about, I've been using for a while. I've been putting in my coffee. I'm like, in your coffee? I'm like, paleo valley protein?

He's like, yeah, I love it. I'm like, how do you feel? He's like, man, I feel great. I have more energy. He's like, I gained a couple pounds though. I'm like, what do you mean you gained a couple pounds? So we started talking more, and it turned out my aunt has been making meat sweets. I'm like, I don't think that's what's happening to you. I don't think you're under calorie of protein. But he loves how he feels. He loves adding it to his coffee. Normally, he would just have coffee, and now he's having the paleo valley protein in there, and he likes the way it tastes.

Doug and I just had our final walkthrough on one of the properties. And the agent that was doing the walkthrough with us, afterwards, she was curious about what we did. And so she went and must have researched this. And then after that, the algorithm has been falling out. Now it's all over her. Yeah, yeah. So the last time, this last time when we walked through, she's like, so tell me about this paleo valley bone broth, because I'm lactose intolerant. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm like, oh, man.

Perfect. I was like, boy, that algorithm's pretty good. The fact that she didn't know who we were. She went and Googled us, and then within a day, was asking Doug and I about paleo valley. And I was like, oh my god. I'm like, that's a pretty good advertising there. By far. And this is what my uncle told me. Because again, he doesn't work out. He doesn't care. And he's like, I was afraid to buy it because I hate protein powders. They always taste gross. He goes, this one is so good, as I told you, bro.

It's the best tasting. That's what I was telling her. I'm like, I think it's, especially for somebody who is lactose and you can't have dairy, can't have whey. Because whey typically is one of the best tasting proteins. It's one of the better ones. Yeah, that you could taste. But a lot of people, they're intolerant to it, or it bothers them a little bit, right? And so the bone broth is just so good. And I love that I can do. It's easy to digest. I love that I can go high.

Yo, I can do 70 grams of protein in it, no problem. To be able to, I can't even, I can have whey, again, I've talked about this before, where I can do whey proteins. I just have to have a moderate amount. Once a day is enough for me. And I definitely can't do a double up shake. If I had 60 to 80 grams of whey in one sitting, that'll mess me up. I can do 60 to 80 grams of the bone broth and it digests so easy.

It's like water. Yes. I know. Yeah. So that's a huge win. Have you guys seen the new dating app? It's real, by the way. That's kind of going around. The new one? Yeah. Doug, look up. How do they change it? Look up the dating app. So this is interesting, dude. And I almost could have predicted this. So it's called, Doug, look this up. It's unjected. So U-N-J-E-C-T. Unjected. Unjected. EED unjected on instead of rejected you're unjected. Nope. It is People who want to date people who were never vaccinated with the COVID vaccine It's literally a dating website for people who never got the COVID vaccine I mean, I feel like this is kind of a way of being like the non-political way.

I think the political thing I feel like that's what that is. Not not necessarily this but like so Way back when like I was telling you guys like one of my my sister-in-law was looking at, you know getting a donor You know and so like one of the parameters of like did you find out like, you know the history like how much detail? Do they give you and it's like I did I don't think they were revealing or not But then they start revealing if they had the vaccine or not.

Yes I I'm so I heard this not confirmed, but I heard that that donors Like sperm donors, yeah, I'm back stated they'll charge more or more demand. Yes. That's what I heard. Yeah is our Sperm donors who did not get the COVID vaccine in higher demand. Let's look that up, but it's crazy that they have a I mean, don't you feel like that's just like a like a subtle way of being like, well, there's a lot of like There's a lot of conjecture and conspiracy theory stuff out there.

So is it true not I don't know we won't get into that but But people want it. Yeah Whoever'd like threw that my way on my story. It wasn't gonna like this. Oh You had somebody yeah. Yeah, they're like challenging me on our COVID science and what? Yeah, all the stuff that you listed. Yeah, everything you listen was a fact. Well, yeah No, I I listed that as a response yeah as a response because it was like I think they had a hard time because we Mentioned a lot of studies all the time and you know back a lot of what we say with science and they're you know obviously just looking at one specific study that was like You know making it look like the you know, the vaccines like had a pretty high effectiveness Which is like oh that's interesting because like I've seen a lot of conflicting studies to others people that still believe that yeah Oh, that's funny.

Oh, yeah, that's hilarious. Like, you know, I still get you guys get I get CVS It sends me the get your kovat 19. Yeah a robot one or that. I'm so petty. I like Well, are you serious I people that really believe that it had that much of an impact Wow, that's interesting. Yeah Yeah, it is interesting and it you know, it just goes to show to like how segmented we are and like how much no No, no, no, no what it goes to show which is such a perfect transition for this I wanted to bring it up.

Anyways is what Chris Nagibi just talked about? Oh, it's like yeah, how well media media paints a narrative and how well and today how crazy it is We're yeah, it holds all the power what I would I love about this episode It's such a good job on this episode. It's one of my favorite episodes. He's ever done higher standards. Yeah Yeah, so yeah Chris our good friend. We've been on the show before Chris Nagibi higher standard podcast And what I love that he set the table before he went just telling hit like history This has been happening for 200 years.

Yeah, so just a little context. So historically speaking. So if you live in a First of all, this is important in all societies, but it's especially important and valuable in a free society where people make choices So if you live in a society Like you do if you listen to this podcast, you probably live in one of those societies where you can choose For the most part what you can buy what you don't want to buy where you want to live Who you can vote for When you have that kind of choice The the who controls the narrative which is done largely through media has a lot of power right because you can sway People in different directions and this is not new we've known this for forever we've done this for a long time, but like look at the first newspapers and who bought those and on those and why and When when it was TV how TV became influence radio became influenced Magazines magazines now, it's like social media.

So whoever controls the net that's very valuable for either companies or platform dictates Politicians or anything is who can control the narrative tends to control the situation and so and by the way The reason why this came up and you know Our one of our friends is involved in this and I so I respect the guy I think you know He does a good job, but it was really interesting to me when I saw Our friends podcasts be the highest-selling podcast of all time. So this was the TBPN I think that's what's called TVPN podcast.

So this was a they called it like Sports Center for Silicon Valley, so it was a Podcast and they kind of treated it like Sports Center where they're reporting on what's going on talking about Silicon Valley It was this super new podcast that got bought recently for hundreds of millions Yeah, so some so just under Joe Rogan, yeah like around 200 million dollars now the reason why this was interesting was because Joe Rogan gets 10 million views or listen. It's a million an episode They got they like very little very little in comparison.

They weren't producing There was nothing that justified the selling of their podcast for nearly that much Except for and this is what we speculated on. I think this is what's happened that AI companies in particular first off. They have really low approval ratings. So AI is like it's this emerging technology Tons of potential money in it. Everybody knows it's like this is why so many trillions of dollars getting dumped into it But AI there's been some backlash though like public perception around it is like iffy Yeah, and you know public perception of public perception goes the wrong way It'll get regulated into into smithereens, have you seen all those commencement speeches?

Oh, yeah that are flying around Yeah, and then mention it everybody's just that's why this has become so important. So owning the narrative is very Important for an AI company. Okay, and who bought their pod data centers all this stuff And and who bought their podcast for 20 million dollars, right? It was a anthropic. Yeah, wasn't a tropic, but Sam Altman Yeah, I think that's the one right? Well, yeah drop it. Yes And it didn't and then they bought it and they canceled their app so whatever money they were making they stopped no advertising Yeah, how can a podcast who first off wasn't earning?

nowhere near what would be worth 200 million dollars in purchase and How could they sell for that much and then on top of why would a company buy that and cancel advertising anyway? So it makes no money. It's because they want to control the narrative and they need a propaganda arm or an arm of Media and there really wasn't a good popular one in Silicon Valley and you got these guys on there one of them. We know. Well, he does a good job Yeah, good-looking kids smart short as a whip It's like hey, let's buy this and let's use this to to to control the narrative That's and by the way, that's why I speculate when I saw that my oh god, I know what happened Well, and what have I been saying about the whole AI movement right now to that so much of it is propped up And so they they need to keep all the money flowing there and you ask why why well, of course, there's all these companies That want to IPO where they make big money but even if they don't IPO you and this was like so it's huge for me to kind of see behind the curtain in the last like five years being a part of a lot of people that are VCS and do seed rounds and funding and Have close friends people that are on Forbes magazine stuff like that that I got to talk to in and talk business Intimately on how all this I was so unfamiliar ten years ago on how all this worked and When I saw it, I remember sharing with you guys I don't know how much that I've shared publicly on on here But I know we've talked about it, but I was like so blown away by the the hustle.

Yeah, and VC Yeah, just said like so when when something when something especially like this like AI when billions of Dollars are flowing in a direction of a movement and they're popping up all over the place You don't even care if that company ever Makes it to IPO so long as you can keep it growing and and in raising money Every six months to a year, you know seed rounds and then series a and then you keep going keep going What these what these founders can do is every round that comes around you go over rate We hate we grew this much over the last year, you know, we spent this much to grow that much So we're still negative, but we're growing.

We need another 10 million dollars So you get 10 million dollars and he goes like this I'll take 1 million for myself and we'll pump 9 million to it to make it to the next and to be clear Many of the biggest companies in the world that we know about Did that for a long time before they became extremely like Amazon wasn't available for like 10 years Tesla like so it's the game and what they're doing is they're betting. Well, yeah, so you're just you just named Two outliers, that's right.

Some of the winners. Yeah, there are many hundreds. Yeah of losers thousand huge percentage Don't ever even come close to that and making that way meanwhile They're still making a ton of money and so it's like a good old boys club where it's like hey Let's all agree. Just keep pushing this narrative this direction We all eat because if we keep and that's this by the way, this is this is good news and bad news This is scare stuff, too. That's why that was my point.

Like when you bring oh my god, it's keeping it top of news Yeah, so whether whether it's there's fear-mongering happening on what AI is gonna kill all of us or it's gonna be doing our dishes In the next month, it doesn't matter So long as it's top of the news and everyone's talking about it and it's going to rebel It's like it's calm all over well in here and here's the big thing. So for a long time tech has Enjoyed the advantage of having good public perception for a while up until relatively recently relatively recently.

There's been criticism There's been cynicism around tech you saw it affected the elections Yeah, like like when the iPhone first came out like it was everybody was like, let's go. This is awesome Apple's the best company in the world. Amazon's amazing. Now. People are more cynical and skeptical Public policy is starting to move in that direction social media starting to get Regulated tech moguls are getting criticized. They're looked at as bad guys They were heroes before it was Steve Jobs was the guy like they were all heroes because it was new So what my point with that is today more than ever and definitely next five or ten years They are going to need to control the narrative They are investing heavily in controlling no no different than politicians.

No different than politicians have Yeah for the past so you're gonna see more of that kind of stuff because your options are this you're anthropic You got two options. You're looking at public perception We're the top companies like guys we got to change everybody's opinion on us and what we do either a we build a In there a machine we build our own show that Pumps out good information about us. It makes us look good. Good luck with that It's one thing to build an incredible AI company is a completely different thing to build a media company Yeah, or you look at one you go.

They're promising Let's give them some money and they'll do what we say anyway, and let's rock and roll Which that's by the way if you're listening to this and this conversation at all interests you the breakdown that Chris does on the timeline it's a good episode and In the links to everything to back up all the stuff that he's talking about and the connections to everything It's fascinating in such a good app And by the way, if anybody is like questioning this like does anybody question that Elon Musk buying X?

Which was Twitter at the time didn't influence the last election. Yeah, of course it did. Yeah, it totally did He just they're playing the game that's been played. I didn't realize what did you hear when Chris talked about? The when Elon and Biden both text the same day and and Biden's text He's like 29 million and then he was like 9 million. So that was like that's what set off the buying of Twitter or His tweet you mean? Yeah his tweet that went out So he is tweet crushed crushed and his was suppressed and he went in and like fired Fired a bunch of people that was responsible that changed the algorithm if I got and flipped it like completely Uh-huh.

So I mean just do you know, you know that one of the reasons why? This is connected. One of the reasons why cannabis went through this whole period of prohibition was because Who was it? Was it William Hurst who owns the paper mills? Yep, and hemp was starting to compete Yeah, because William Hurst owned the newspapers. He started printing a bunch of articles going talking about how dangerous Cannabis was and the goal was to get rid of madness the goal is to get rid of competition because because Because hemp was so much or so cheap so much cheaper and inexpensive to produce and more durable It's like yes such a missed opportunity And I did the point of all this That's the part that I think Chris does a really good job of this is like he talks about what's going on with TV Bhen and and that the narrative and the purchase of all that But he sets a table of like like this is not new strategy No, and nor am I like ever and he's like nor am I hating it's just like it's I mean if you're them It's an old game, dude Yeah But it's like but it's like people needs people need to know you don't say you need to know like what's what what you're But all back to my point of going on this tangent with you is just I just feel like that's what's So much of the the narrative whatever you're and boy, it's today It's crazy once you like something and you watch something and the algorithm figures out What you like or the information that you that you just hover over so it just can it just get ready because the next six Months everything will just confirm.

I've had people I've had friends of mine for sure I've had friends of mine that I'll meet like friends at church. For example who don't know the show They don't know mind pump. They don't know who I am. We meet we start talking the next day. They go listen I don't look you up or anything, but now you're showing up on my algorithm Listening is it I'm sure it is. What's the thing? Yeah, they and I forget what it was, but they had shown You know through drive-ins that predictably, you know, they already knew your order I don't know if it was McDonald's or one of these franchises was using this technology before it was legal You know, then they had to stop because it was like an invasion of privacy But they were like tracking license plates and like, you know So they've been doing these things like that.

That's the first rollout is like, you know You're testing it and you get in the beta testing and guys have seen it with your navigation. Haven't you? Oh where it's like it predicts where I'm going all the time. It's really wrong. I know I mean it's wrong sometimes. I'm like dude this like it could be like literally. It's are you gonna buy a breeder? It's a random day in the week, and I'm heading somewhere I know me so populates you know it suggests where I'm going and I'm like how does it know I'm going but it's It's been tracking.

We're creatures have it. Yeah our patterns are predictable. Do you guys know that back in the day? I don't know when it was and maybe you can confirm this dog, but they experimented movies Experimented or they tested subliminal messaging yeah, and they had to make it illegal uh-huh Where they flash a picture yeah, but that you don't necessarily perceive that movie Uh, thank you for smoking talked about that show that highlighted that well They flash a cigarette smoke, and you get to see it a freeze it to see it But if you didn't see it's a 1957 market researcher James Vickery claimed He flashed drink coca-cola and eat popcorn during movie boosting concession sales oh Wow well, okay, so it says I mean subliminal messaging.

There's you know what movie does this by the way There's a movie that does this that you can actually find the frames Fight Club mm-hmm Fight Club does certain flashes Thank you for smoking does it too. They did it. They did it in there. They did like little like cigarette burn mark Yeah, and then it like yeah, they did they did they did stuff like that. I mean they do this with Grocery stores with music and and and stores yeah, yeah, there's certain music played to keep you shopping Temperatures you know like coffee shops you keep you know buying We were talking about Dating dating app earlier, and you guys know what's the trend right now on social media with the younger generation what?

pheromone maxing Look at pheromone maxing Dudes are not showering what so when they go on a date that their pheromones are maxed out, and that'll maybe get the Smell like a viral online dating trend where men intentionally skip showering ditch deodorant and wear Unwashed clothes before dates weird does that work so okay? So here's the funny thing about this because someone's listening like that's gross This is here's what's weird. I mean there's a woman who's ovulating versus a woman who isn't obviously same woman She will perceive if a man wore a shirt or not as attractive or not So if she's ovulating and a man wore a shirt, she'll smell bit.

Oh, this smells really good So this might only work if she's ovulating bro, but if she's not you're gonna So you think okay because they're also like trying to capture this with Like cologne, and there's like one. That's like. It's always trying to market I think like my son, and it's like you know it has pheromones in it And it's like you know the only one that has it and it's like super expensive And you know so that way too Yeah, like women will will you know pick up on that like subliminally so isn't there isn't there science to support that we like that?

We we pair and match with with the appropriate like pheromones for us in other words like so one of the lesser hormones I remember like connecting this a long time ago through dating. It's like there's I would date a girl and One girl could be that let's say one girlfriend Could be all sweaty not shower come with Jim And I like the way she smelled another girl that I dated I would notice I was repulsed by that smell right so both sweaty not showered so that but one of them that smell I'm attracted to and I Put up on something different.

Yes We're another one. I would date and they would have a smell and it'd be off-putting you know It's funny. That's crazy about that. I I tell my wife. She doesn't believe me, but this I tell her this whole time Her purse she I don't necessarily smell anything, but I love to smell her And she'll be like oh my god. I didn't shower and I'll be like yes Don't you don't you think that we love it? Don't you think that there's sir? There's got to be yes, so to me that makes sense by the way when women are on birth control versus not Completely changes how they like now the funny thing about this that I think it'll talk about a quick way to like no You're not matched up.

It's like. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you're the right person probably is like. Oh, they smell either They it's either neutral to them or they smell good. You need to think about that dude. You don't like someone smells Happen Did you you know speaking of Dating and relationships and stuff. I share with you that Arthur Brooks post. Oh, yeah happiness. That's old data So I'll read I'll read his post because it's really good. It's good I have thoughts around it's good and the reason why but I brought this up a long time ago because there was this you have and I wanted to revisit it because I wanted to know there were these studies that would come out actually article and the title of the articles would say because of studies they'd say Pete parent couples without kids are happier and they quote the study and I hate stuff like this because it's not telling the full picture so Here's what his post says and because he knows the actual data So it says couples without children enjoy their lives more than parents do But they suffer a hidden cost when researchers compare parents with otherwise similar couples The childless report more day-to-day enjoyment more sleep more restaurants more finished sentences So are the couples deciding against children reading the data correctly?

Well, they are reading only one line of it happiness has three macronutrients enjoyment satisfaction and meaning and they're all fed differently Children are a trade between macronutrients. They draw down enjoyment Sometimes for a decade at a stretch and they deposit meaning So when researchers ask people to rate their daily activities caring for children lands near the bottom for moment-to-moment happiness Been near the top for meaning and nothing splits the two so hard and then he talks about his own experience With his own kids so I wanted you to bring it up because there's something that I've always tried to figure out about my own personal journey with this Because I I've I fell in the category.

So we would be like Thought about not having kids for the longest time and what and one of the cases that I make for it, man I'm especially Katrina and I did it for a long time without max, right? We had a really really good life Yeah like we had a lot of fun a lot of you know a lot of basketball games a lot of Concerts a lot of fun travel a lot of cool stuff and and really really enjoyed each other And so there was this possible like I could see not having kids Yet I also say, you know seven years later Katrina and I have done more of all of that.

Mm-hmm and so I've always been like what that's kind of weird because that's that's the opposite of the narrative around that and and so another reason why I don't like those studies that show that because it doesn't tease out What I have and because when I compare it to my like two best friends because I don't think they would say that They would definitely say the children gave meaning but they would say man when we were single We definitely had more though There was a period of time when you didn't right when max was really little It was a couple years right or a year where you're not going all over the place When he he was three months old, we were already up at our Tahoe house We were flying with him by the time before he was six months old.

We were that's not this so that's not the typical, right? So that's so this is this is me So why I'm saying why that story doesn't tell everything because here's here's and and the reason why what I've unpacked for myself is How valuable family has been for us and and what I have found is Because we have family so willing to help and support which I think is so valuable I think Katrina and I have been even more intentful to do those things because it's like we We we got Friday mom's my mother-in-law's got our son.

So we're we got this We're gonna go do and then we got this and so we plan even more not to mention we do a lot with max And so then on top of that I find that we go out of our way to do even more Because we get that one night or two nights off a week and then the week so it's like I think that there's more to that It's like yeah, if you tease out somebody who is Married and has a kid and also isolated from family And of course, they're gonna see a dramatic difference in that Yeah When you look at there's other there's other my point is that there's other factors at play or to of course when you're looking at studies You're looking at the general.

Yes, so there's always outliers, but generally speaking. I think it's Reasonable to expect that you're not gonna have as much personal Enjoyment in freedom when you have kids, especially multiple kids, especially for the first Five years that they're around. I think that's a very reasonable thing to expect that's also what the data supports, but I think what's more important about this data is My own personal enjoyment if I just do that all the time and that's the most important thing to me you know what that turns into a hedonistic hell a treadmill of hedonism and All of us know some people like this right there in their kind of late 40s.

They've lived this life. It's all about them They still don't have any kids and they're now at the point where they're like this like this is worn out Like this is worn out I'm either on some kind of antidepressant or I'm not happy or what's going on and Sometimes it takes that long for people to figure that out because if you look at all the data Again we're speaking generally because some people are way more miserable with kids for whatever reason but generally speaking When you enter when you do this these studies people are generally better off Having kids than they weren't not eating.

Yes, you are trading personal freedom and enjoyment for meaning Yeah, I think I think it's a good way to frame it that you should go into expecting that but I also don't think that's I don't think You have to you know, I I think that if you if you go into that situation Then you're intentful about it and you you make that like hey, well, this is what you know mother-in-law or Auntie or uncle if you have that right not so I definitely think if you don't have that you should prepare that You're not gonna go to as many concerts You're not gonna go as many of these things right as you did before because you don't have just gonna grow and incredible other way Yeah, so you expect exactly so you're gonna get the meaning part You're gonna get heavily on the meaning part But I do believe that there is I mean I know that I was an exceptional and I know that I was a person who probably Was afraid to having kids because of a fear Yeah Of giving so much of that up like that was going to happen and the opposite was true for me And I did not see that coming and so it changed so funny.

I have a buddy who's now whole disease mid-40s and He's lived that life so Work made money done. Whatever. He wanted dated girls never settling down type of deal now He's in his mid-40s and now we're having conversations And he's like, yeah, dude, I'm kind of lonely. Like I think I'm like ready to settle down I think I'm like ready to do this and and I'm like, well, is that gonna be how's that gonna feel for you? Because you've lived this other way for so long.

Are you willing to like? Trade this freedom and whatever to be with somebody who and now you're also 45 So not only that sound like you're decent-looking and you make good money But you know, are you gonna fight you your age group or below in an appropriate age range? You're probably gonna find someone with kids. It's the divorce. It's not only that so We're we're having this funny that we went this direction in this conversation because Katrina and I were having this discussion last night I've got three people in my life that fit this category.

Yeah and one of the other things that becomes also extremely challenging is that you're in your late 40s or 50s and You've you've established These patterns of how you live your life and when you've lived it for that long a certain way for and I'm not gonna Sell out one of the people that I was having this conversation one of my friends I was talking to about this is a this is one of my female friends and She's like I am she really wants a partner.

She wants to all these things and she's expressing that and I'm like you got it You can't keep doing the same thing. You've been doing for the last 30 years You and and well, I joined a gym and I'm doing this. I'm like, yeah, but the time you go You're not gonna meet anybody going that time. Yeah, but that's what we're that's the problem Everything you do is like this is what works for me And this is my schedule and this is when I do this and this is why I do that and you have this routine That you won't break out of yet.

You want something different? So it's like you got to break out of that same friend circle meet new people You got to stop the like this is the time I always do this in the time I always do that because you've already met all those people like you've got to shake all that up and boy That's hard to do for somebody who's been doing we've also just and this is we talked about this earlier controlling the narrative And the narrative for a long time has been the most valuable thing is personal freedom Personal enjoyment is hedonistic pleasure and we've been hammered this into us for so long People believe this but the data is showing we've been wrong.

It's been wrong everybody. In fact, in fact, you know, you know in birth control Because birth control plays a role in all of this that we're talking about when birth control was first brought to market Do you know how it was advertised? It was advertised for married couples to help them stay married longer because now they have an option to control You know whether or not they have children because back then they were like, oh, it's a stress You have a kid you can't afford it that causes a lot of strain but now you have a way to control your fertility and then of course it turned into Hey now you can control your fertility and you can sleep you can have sex with other people without the risk And you know what?

That's better because now you can see if you're compatible and this was kind of the narrative You know what happened since since that became mainstream divorce rates went from 8% to 50% Childless held households went through the roof and people are less happy Men are less happy, you know, who's especially less happy women are way less happy In fact, they call this a parrot. They this is like a paradox Why are they so much less happy than they were when they had, you know perceived less freedoms and it's because we've sold this idea So long that the most important thing in your life is having a lot of stuff Having all this personal freedom and having all this personal enjoyment and pleasure.

That's just not the way it works The data doesn't support it. We can see it. And you know what marriage and kids is it hard? Do you do you have a lot of responsibility you give up personal freedom you give up personal enjoyment you do but will you get in? return It's well worth it purpose of meaning. Yeah, is that the other two aren't the formula for purpose? No, so that's exactly why no totally. Anyway, you were talking about working out earlier and I was excited I don't know if you saw this Adam cuz I thought of you what Viori now has pickleball Yes, I did Yes, I'm trying to get some battles So so Bjork smart for view I mean last time Doug brought up when he went river rafting They had the rash guard stuff for the whatever for them smart I just they're on top cool back.

They had snowboard last winter. I saw when they don't snowboard They're like man. They're expanding into all all different areas real quick. What are these sweats called again? We have the same ones seaside They're the best. Oh, yeah, best best best best sweats ever. How are those pretty much every night comfortable warm chill? They last forever. Oh, look. There's the paddles right there. Yeah, if you already does a good job look at that, dude It's so good is so palpable. Excuse me pickleball has literally exploded.

Yes and popularity Is it one of the fastest-growing sports? I do believe so. I think I would imagine that up I'm curious. It's got to be yeah, I never heard of it. Did you guys see suddenly? I'm sure I see the the The the pickleball movie I think yeah, did you watch it or do you see the watch the trailer? I didn't want yeah, I mean it's not like I'm not promoting the fastest-growing sport in the United States. Yep Yeah, the fastest growing so the hope I told you what's the rate of growth dog?

I'm interested to see over the last five years The US has more than 24 million players cool. Yeah Let's see. I'll find yeah Yeah, just put it so brilliant for pickleball rate of growth over the last five years Oh, really a popularity review re to jump on that. So smart. They're very you know, Yuri is so crazy I know we've been hello with them just ten years has it been ten years almost They went from being this kind of unknown like cool company to Like dominating.

Yeah, like crushing. That's all Now it's it's it's got to a place where when I see someone in athleisure where it's all it's almost always I always see If you're both women and men, it used to be just men just men I would see that but now it's women and men I see it's like they definitely it'd be interesting to see how much of the Market share they have now taken, you know, because we would dominate bro. Look at the growth of pickleball last five years 479% It went from four million players to 24 million players Well, didn't you hear it was a Gary Vee who bought a team should we buy pickleball courts, right?

Oh, he bought like a team. No, it's a it's a would be a brilliant investment You know, you know how hard it is to get on a pickleball court right now We should buy some land put pickle pickleball courts on there Let people rent it and then sell it before the crate because the craze will go down. Yeah, it'll it'll crush and it'll go down It's been around forever, so it's not like it's a new suddenly I think because it's multi-generational Well, I think it's nice gonna stay I can do it multiple factors and I will I would bet against you that it's gonna go Away, will it slow down 100% can't grow at that rate forever.

But here's the thing. You've talked with us all the time We don't we don't meet up. No And the barrier to entry for pickleball is low is low Perfect. You can be 70 and go play and you can be super athletic and go play and it's competitive at all That's right running group So, I mean listen, I I would bank on this ain't going away for quite some time now I can't predict 20 years from now what we're doing or whatever with that But it's gonna be hot for a while and I don't I don't think we're gonna see us Are you trying to talk us into maps pickleball?

I mean, I like your I I like your idea of some land like an acre and throw on some pickleball I don't rush right now It would absolutely when you'd sell it after grows just sell it real quick and then somebody else will buy it for a profit Start promoting jasmine. I'm not a guy. I'm not a guess For one of the Christmases I got like the boys this like game it's like a pop-up square So it's a square that has like oh, I saw that Yeah, and so you have paddles, but it's like basically badminton, but you have to hit through this little square Jasmine, oh, I love that.

Oh, that's it. Yeah. Oh my kids would love that Yeah, exactly like that. That would be like the next follow-up to when I was a kid badminton was popular for kit for family Yeah, badminton never really took off like but that was always another easy one. So weird. I totally forgot this My family used to get together and play badminton. Mm-hmm. What were a group of Sicilians doing playing? I have no it's like it's more of a European thing. I think so. You remember Quran you had to say Right there This was called you guys my my our trainer Karan who comes in here was like a badminton champion He's like world-ranked.

No way. Yes. Yes. Was he a pro? I mean He was like a champion, yeah. Yeah. No, he's like really. Yeah, which is why like he's you he would he'd surprise you He's pretty athletic like he like he's been on my softball team We play basketball like he's athletic like he can just pick a sport up and play it and I remember always be like, hey, dude Like I would have never guessed it and then that he I found out let me years later after being friends and knowing him He's like, oh, yeah, I was a badminton champ.

You know, what sport even ping-pong the Quran. Yeah, you know, it's sport Fascinates me. I've never seen it live. I'm only seen it on videos. I don't know what it's called But they have this big hook thing on their arm and they whip a ball. Yeah. Oh, yeah, and it goes highlight It goes the ball goes so fast a Brazilian a Brazilian sport. Yeah, it goes like a hundred and twenty miles No, it looks scoops. Yes, it looks crazy. I like it. Yeah, and they throw the ball super fast It's as a crazy.

It looks yeah, there it is, right? It's hurling or there's a sport, too Yeah hurling Scotland that just it's so brutal. What do you do? well you You can throw it really fast and like it is dangerous people like lose teeth all the time. Oh, yeah. Oh that Yeah, it's pretty fun to watch There is no way more brutal there is no sport that's crazier or more brutal Than culture historical in Italy. Oh, is that the one where they fight each other? It's it's an ancient sport.

They've been playing for hundreds of years fight playing. It's like football. Will you fight too? It's a gang fighting. I spell a ad like a L CIO and then separate word Hello, it's a bit to show each other. No, it's literally. Oh, yeah ancient sport. Yeah We you have to be from the town. That's right to play for the team and it's four major cities in Italy I would love to go to one of those and watch bro and literally you get a ball the goal is to get one ball into the other goal and Is it a once-a-year thing It's not happening.

No, it's a once-a-year thing Yeah, they say it's like a bit it's like a traditional thing and you can do whatever you want to stop the guy I'm sure Russia has one that's competitive to this. Oh, well Russia's got great But this has got a pair degree this sport has been around for I think yeah, it's like it's a thousand years I get it's like a town pride thing is really what it is. Yeah, that's like where the history watch Let me see how old this is watch your trip trip out over how old this was like Kings and Queens We're competing with each other with their teams That's the ancient roots the Roman Army well keep going 1400s young Florentines revived this game and evolved into the sport for wealthy aristocrats noblemen and even future popes What huh?

Whoa, dude, or or that one Mayan sport where you're the winner you die Yeah, you sacrifice Yeah, we win like your prizes you die, yeah, it's great that's a game I would suck out Everybody's Games go on forever pocket talk or pits What is dose for your liver so dose for your liver is a clinically backed liver health supplement It's not just another capsule or powder. It's a liquid supplement. You take it every day two ounces a day Tastes like orange juice and it helps cleanse the liver of unwanted stressors that are slowing you down So it promotes daily liver function.

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Here comes a show Our first question is from Kathy Steinhilb What is the best way to improve leg strength when you do not have a squat rack, you know split stance exercises? Would be for sure if you look at the biomechanics of a split stance movement like a lunge or a Bulgarian The front leg is squatting. It's a one-legged squat. Yeah, so one-legged squat. It's there That's it. By the way, some people athletic coaches. I should say some athletic coaches argue Yeah, Mike Boyle that split stance movements are better.

Yeah, then it's a it's a solid argument. I agree Athletics, I think I can see that. Yeah, you can actually really load it, too It's not like something that's not possible to do Like it's just it requires a lot of skill and like you have to like master, you know the balance of it But you can really like increase strength with that movement. Yeah, the family the challenge So here the thing with a squat is because you start to get really strong and you're able to load it very heavily a squat Rack starts to become necessary.

Yeah, so it's like okay I can't pick this weight up off the ground and put it on my back But split stance exercises give you a lot more room because you're not going to use as much weight But the intensity and the tension is up there still there I mean that being said some Bulgarian splits quads with some wrist wraps Could take you a long ways a very far long ways very far like I mean you could literally if I have wrist wraps Oh, yeah, I can hold on to 120s 150s and eat.

I mean, that's a 300 pounds Yeah, I can't I couldn't do that. But that's my point. My point is Crack it too. Well, that would be a Rack that much way, but I could I could wrist wrap that kind of way. You'll say the other one is right racking 150 dumbbells dog I'm more impressed with the rack in this. Yeah, the the other one is like heavy step ups are also really good No, there's a balance on it. So it's not gonna be as much of a strength builder, but it is phenomenal Yeah, so you could load, you know, grab a couple heavy dumbbells and and do a very heavy step up onto a bench or a step So there's a lot of great exercise you could do and you're really not missing out on a ton because you don't have a squat rack Next question is from make wellness Elizabeth TWP before I started lifting.

I was rather flexible now I seem to be tied all over which is a bit frustrating Am I not stretching enough or is this a normal part of the process? Mmm cut out that last part They also added Adams Cowboys. Why do they say that? Why it's cuz it's football season. Yeah Yeah football season starts this week, okay, yeah, so here's the deal when you're building strength with certain exercises Let's say I only do five exercises and I get really strong at them. Here's what happens I get really strong in those movements my body starts to recognize a discrepancy between the strength I have for that movement and the strength to have outside of That movement and so what it starts to do is it starts to tighten you up so that you move less Outside of where you have that strength so you start to feel tighter now the remedy to this with strength training is to do Lots of different movements to move in all different planes and use a full range of motion in which case you won't feel tighter You'll have more stability, but let's say you only do Squats deadlifts bench press overhead press rows, which are great muscle builders, but that's all you ever do Yeah, you're gonna feel tight going laterally You're gonna feel tight moving outside You're gonna feel tight rotating because your body is just really strong in this one particular way Yeah, and it's beneficial to for producing more force.

So it's like, you know, you don't be all flexible You know trying to approach these like heavy lifts So, you know, it's it's really it's about yeah Like managing that based upon like range of motion and then getting more familiar with it Do you think this can be sometimes to people that are overreaching in their training to a lot in cost tightness? Yeah, because sometimes sometimes I this can be me and this is always like my sign that like I'm I'm overreaching It's like I'm I'm pushing so hard the intensity in my training that I'm like constantly feeling sore and tight Versus the appropriate amount of intensity.

I normally feel really good. I normally leave the workout feeling really good I feel like I lifted the day before but I don't feel restricted and ah every time I move like oh wow I'm really sore. They're like that's all signs of overreaching for me. Yes So possibly peer to that now if you're following like a Maps 15 protocol and not training to failure your that's probably not your situation But sometimes that could be the possibility. There's also this like, you know, you're what determines your tightness It's not the muscle.

It's the central nervous system that controls the muscle. And so if your central nervous system is Maintaining a certain amount of let's say tightness with a small muscle when that muscles larger It can feel tighter because you're working with a larger muscle with the same kind of central nervous system Signal, so it's important when you build muscle and strength to train in a well-rounded way because it's not without its own Risks like moving different planes of motion move with the full range of motion Involve Mobility and static stretching and what'll find what you'll find is this isn't gonna be a problem and there's bodybuilders There have been pro bodybuilders who've maintained Good balance and their flexibility like flex Wheeler would do the splits on stage, you know Tom Platts was famous for his flexibility and that's because they kept it up while they did their strength training and both of them were Very good maintain it.

Yeah while you're building strength, that's right Next question is from Sapir 25 24 How do you feel about not following a specific program but rather letting your body kind of guide you on what to do in the gym? I find I'm more consistent and enjoy the workout more much more when it's not a structured checklist I focus on getting strong at compound lifts and I track and progressively overload I just have a hard time staying on a program winging. It makes my workout feel more like play hence the consistency So I love this So long as you're not also going but I wish I could see this and I'm not seeing the change I want like so that the follow-up statement to this is what matters to me because This is actually the place.

I want all my clients to get this is where I operate from this place I don't go into a workout with structure because but I also I'm not trying to make crazy change right now I know I'm not like I'm not going no specific goal Yeah, I don't have like a specific goal that I'm trying to achieve. So I'm enjoying my workouts I do them for the sake of it makes me a better father. It makes me a better husband. It makes me feel strong I have good energy.

I sleep better. I move more throughout my day Those are the desired outcomes and treating my workouts like play will do that But if I'm like I'm trying to lose 3% body fat or I'm trying to get my my squad up to this I'm programming because then it makes it makes it a different for this person. I'd say you're fine because they're saying it keeps me consistent. I'm having fun. Consistency trumps, uh, so long as it crazy, the workout isn't horrible, kind of trumps everything. Uh, but here's a deal, like the P there are people who can wing it and also have excellent workouts, but these are people who know how to work out.

They've been doing it for a long time. You're very of the experience. They have lots of experience. Like Adam goes into a gym winging it, but he's also got, you know, 30 years of experience training, his body training are the people, you know, somebody who's been working out consistently for six months suddenly says they want to wing it. I'm going to say, no, you, you have nowhere, there's, there's, you have no base to wing it from. No. So long as you're able to structure it appropriately, so long as you're happy where your results are though.

Yeah. Right. I mean, cause I've, you know, what happens when people have no experience winging it, they either hurt themselves, overdo it, or they usually do the same thing to me or the same thing over and over again, which again, my point, if you're happy where you're at and you're not trying to make, make change, but if you're happy, if you're not trying to make change, you're happy where this is like how I would tell people that we're doing things like orange theory. Like, Hey, if you love coming here, the community is fun.

You enjoy the workout and you're consistent and you're not trying to make change, keep doing your orange theory. Keep doing your fun workouts. It's on, but if you come to me and you go, I don't, I can't get this last, you know, five pounds of body fat off. Or I, man, I'm not getting any stronger. I can't build my bud. I can't build yet. If you have goals that you're trying to do and you're winging the programming. Well, I mean, there you go. There's your problem.

Let me add to that, Adam. I've had this happen to where someone's like, ah, I don't like structured workouts. I have so much more fun doing my thing, but I have these goals that I, you know, want to focus on and I'll say, okay, well give this a shot. Uh, follow the structured program. You know, you know, it ends up happening most of the time. They come back and say, they say, you know what, I like it better because they like the results better. Yes. I mean, you're exactly.

That's my point is that if you, there's, there's, you, you want more from your workout, uh, following a structured program is going to give you more, but if you don't care, like I know, I know I'm sacrificing up a more aesthetic version of me or a stronger version. I don't give a shit. I don't care right now. I'm not trying to do that. I'm just, I'm trying to do the things I said, I'm trying to do and going with like winging it also to your point with 30 years experience, I can go like, this is probably best for my body.

It may also be the complexity, like, or it's, it's that they're having to draft it up themselves versus like a lot of times it's alleviating to have this all just like, oh, here it is. It's, it's, you know, simple enough to where I can just go do this because it's right here. I just look at it. I do it now. I'm just taking my mind out of the equation. Um, so there's that part of it too, which I like, it's just like, oh, well, you know, and two, why we reduce it down like a 15 minute protocol.

That's like the ultimate. Cause it's like two exercises, you know, and it's so free. You're right. Do you, Justin, do you work out this way? Do you kind of go in and you kind of have a rough idea? I have like, yeah, four or five compound lifts that I typically, if I'm not doing the 15 protocol, like if I do like a three day schedule, that's usually what I do. Same here. I don't follow a program, but I have a general idea of where I'm going to, what I'm going to do and then based on how I feel, but again, this is, I've been doing this for a lot of changes as I'm there.

Yeah. No, this is completely like I, right now I'm all how, how I feel like, right. I know over the week I got to make sure I hit every body part once or twice. Yeah. It's I'm more of a 15 protocol. So the two exercises are typically comp compound lifts. Yesterday was a front squats and dips. So those are nice. Those are my two movements. The way I decided it, uh, I had leg stuff to do, I hadn't front squatted in a long time, but I've been doing a lot of back squatting, so I'm like time to switch it up and do front squats.

So I did front squats, hadn't done dips, uh, chose the machine. If I had the belt and the weight, I would have done weighted body weight dips, but I didn't have the belt and weight, so I did heavy on the, on the machines. Um, and then I walked for 20 minutes. That was my, that was my workout. And that's how I just say, uh, today my legs are really sore. Uh, so if I go in, I probably won't do anything for it. If I do, I'll do something very light, maybe hamstring focused.

I'll do some like leg curl stuff just to touch them or something like that. Um, and the last time I did any, uh, upper body stuff, I did chest and shoulders or maybe a back exercise. So probably some back, some back, a pull-up or something will happen like that's, and so I'll literally go off of how I feel and what I've done. And that's kind of how, what winging it looks like for me, but you're to your point, there's 30 years of experience of knowing how my body feels.

What are the best bang for your back exercises? What have I been doing consistently? So all that is, even though I'm saying I'm winging it to just to nail home your point, I also know what the hell I'm doing and pulling from something. Yeah. Yeah. Next question is from Burke himself. What would each of the four of you be doing if mind pump never happened? So we have to, we should guess for each other and if we do that, are we being funny or are we being serious?

I don't know. Cause I think sometimes it's both funny and serious at the same time. So, yeah. Uh, I feel like Justin will be a football coach. Oh, isn't that like, isn't that like a, can you just see him being either a continue down the path of, of being a personal trainer and just becoming more exclusive with clients and stuff like that, because at one point he was training some pretty, uh, important people in the area because he's excellent coach, but I could totally see him do some kind of coaching.

Maybe it's not far off. I could see. Yeah. I actually really enjoy it. I just, it's such a full-time commit. Like I think that was the biggest reserve for me. Yeah. It was just like, what am I doing? I just don't have time, you know, like to, to give and like, you really, it's a year round commit. Like, it's not just like the season. So yeah, you were also doing it while you're running this business. So it's like, if that, if you didn't have this, if I didn't have us at all, yeah, I would enjoy it.

You'd enjoy the commitment. Sure. That's not a bad call. What about Doug? What do you think? What Doug would, would, would, would be doing? I think you'd be in Arizona because your daughter's there. So you probably would have followed her out there. I think he would lead Iowa Hoska trips. I'm big into that. Does he see like he'd be a good Sedona Iowa Hoska, like, uh, wearing a feather necklace. Giving them birdie man guides. You know what I'm saying? I can see him either teaching language or, uh, or something involved cooking.

I can see you doing either one of those things. Yeah. Oh, the cooking thing is a good guess. Cause I know he did insurance. He did a life insurance, which paid the bills, but I don't feel like you're, are you, you're not passionate about sales, are you? Not sales. No, I'm not. I'm very interested in marketing though. So, you know, that was the thing that I presented to Sal is like, let's market maps, anabolic, let's create something and market it. And so I was very fascinated with marketing and how you could sell things online.

So if it wasn't Sal, it would be somebody else. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. You were really into that for sure. That's definitely true. I don't know about you, Adam. Adam, let's see exotic car sales. Cause I have always, I've always said that if like everything fell out, uh, I would do something in sales of obviously selling things that are like inherent, very expensive. So cause you need a big rip. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, exotic, exotic cars, yachts, mansions, I would fall for sure. Or, or private jets.

I would totally be into one of those. I could totally get down. Yeah. So I mean, I would love that. I would love, you get leads to sell a private. You don't that's referral. Yeah. I've I've, matter of fact, I heard, I heard someone say something one time that that was really interesting that, so you've never seen, uh, a Rolls Royce commercial or a Bugatti commercial, but you know where they were, what you don't see is that if you go to like a private jet event or whatever that where they're there, they'll Bugatti will be there.

Oh, cause they know that the buyers for private jet. That's right. Well, that makes sense. Right. And that's really why the rest of us have never seen any of that. So we're like, how does Rolls Royce get these, how do they get these customers? They don't even waste their time with us. You know what I'm saying? They're at those and that's, that's their customer base right there. And so, yeah, no, I would be super interested. That's a, it's a pretty good guest right there, Doug. I think I could see myself.

I feel like it. So I might be like a Baptist preacher. It's a good guess. I don't know. I know. I know. I'm just throwing it out there. You've already started his own religion. No. Oh, dude. Oh, you cares. Mannequin. That is what you would do right now. If you were not in mind pump right now, I'd be serving somehow. You'd be a pastor. I would not be. I don't think I'd be a pastor. I don't, you had to scratch that itch. Don't you have to go to school for that?

No, you don't. Yeah, you do. No, you do not. You have to be to start your own church. I guess you don't, but I would not do that. I would, I would, I would go all of them. I know what do you mean? You don't have to do that for anything, for any church, divinity school. They won't hire you. Yes. I've asked. Not because I'm trying to be curious. I'm like, what does it say? Oh, so, I mean, I mean, that's not like a law that might be a standard that a certain church might have.

So maybe the church you asked has that standard, but there is plenty of churches that would hire you to be, especially with your background, especially with how charismatic and, and, and good of a speaker and how you, how you have a photographic memory, you could read some, I mean, you would be great at it. So I totally think that I would, five years ago, if you asked me this question, I wouldn't go. That would have not been the answer. I think I would have liked to have been a teacher at college professor.

Yeah. I like that. Uh, but I mean, it's hard to say without fitness, what I would do, cause I love it so much. I love every aspect of it, working with people. I love the science behind it. I love how it helps people. So to think like what I would do outside of fitness is really, really difficult. Well, I mean, I don't think it's a difficult, I think what we all hit on things that outs outside of here, Doug, you probably still loves reading books around marketing and researching the latest trends on that you love the conversations you have with Eli and them on that side.

Justin's definitely on his side doing coaching stuff. I'm obviously researching exotic car markets and stuff like that. You, I would argue you're probably reading, watching, or consuming biblical content more than you are fitness content for sure. So, I mean, I think it all aligns pretty well. That's probably what I got to say though. The fitness stuff, it translates so well. Do you guys know that? Oh, it's such a parallel. It's so wild, uh, how do you remember how, do you remember? Yes. Okay. I feel like I should get my flowers sometimes when you say, what do you say?

Cause I used to tell you, it was like, bro, wait until you start to dive in the word and these are going to just be like everything you start connecting all these crazy, it's all in there. It's crazy. You know, it's so funny when I said that forever and I've said it to you many times and then I do post the other day. I do the, the guys give me, by the way, you guys, when we do. Instagram content. It's like, we're, we don't, that's not us coming up with our team, read this, do this, write that.

Right. So they, they're, they give me like, uh, you know, five or six books that they pick randomly out of the books that I've read. And they're like, Hey, I want you to rate these. Oh, cool. Yeah. And then like in the comments is like, you know, where's the Bible? You know? So it's like, well, I didn't get the number one. Yeah, I know. I go, first of all, I was like, yeah, great. Definitely. You know, that's a study because it was like, it was the pass, uh, read or study.

Oh, you know? So I did that for like these, like, I don't know, five books that I've read or that, and that I didn't pick, they just randomly give them to me. And then people were like, what about this? What about that? I'm like, well, yeah, you think I just run around flashing everybody? Oh my God. Hey, it's so good. And it's so good. We had taught it. We actually had a ton of my favorite one. So we had a ton of t-shirts. I was, that was first off.

Well, you know, what's so good about that was I had no idea what that was. Yeah. That's my favorite. So my favorite part about the business today is, is that we divide Danny dude, that our, our, our media team, like I said, does all this stuff. None of us have any know what's going on. And we're all, I don't see you, Justin doing his work. I don't see you and vice versa. So when I see it on Instagram, when I see it's first time, and obviously when I see stuff, that's odd.

When I see Sal break down the science and so forth, that's like, okay, I've heard that a million times. Yeah. But when I see something that I haven't seen, like Justin running around in a robe, looking like he's naked, I'm like, what am I watching? And I'm like, what? I have no idea what's coming. Oh, that was what people don't know. He was doing it to everybody. He's got clothes on underneath, but when he did it to Doug, he surprised them. So that was a real reaction.

That was, I'm still scarred. I shout out to our media team. Uh, they do such a good job. I'm so proud of them. And that, that, it makes it fun for me. I got injured a little bit. That was one of my favorite ads. Fell into the closet. That was one of my favorite ads I've ever, it's hard to fake fall. I'm glad other people are realizing they did a good job. Everybody did good. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. It's mind pump me.

Thank you for listening to mind pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB super bundle includes math, anabolic math performance, and maps aesthetic nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs with detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB super bundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price, the RGB super bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee, and you can get it now.

Plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing mind pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is mind pump. Hi, I'm Katie Duke and I've been a nurse for over 20 years. Listen, I used to think that I was my most stylish in my twenties, but honestly, style and confidence only get better with age. And that is why I love figs.

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