You’ve Been Flirting WRONG Your Entire Life | Body Language Expert Vanessa Van Edwards

Key Takeaway

Stop waiting to feel perfectly subtle or perfectly interesting. Today, practice one low-pressure connection sequence: make clear eye contact, offer a small smile, say “Hey” on an exhale in the lowest natural part of your voice, then use a context-based question such as “Tough class, huh?” Your goal is not to impress; it is to create one authentic “me too” moment. Clear availability, calm vocal delivery, and genuine curiosity make connection easier in dating, friendship, and work.

Episode Overview

Vanessa Van Edwards joins Jay Shetty to explain how body language, vocal tone, and conversational habits shape attraction and social connection. She offers practical ways to signal availability, build rapport through shared similarities, break scripted small talk, exit conversations gracefully, and spot incongruence or manipulation in dating.

Full Transcript

Transcript of You’ve Been Flirting WRONG Your Entire Life | Body Language Expert Vanessa Van Edwards from On Purpose. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

We were discussing the idea that, let's say, you're in a gym class. Let's say you're in a social space. Maybe it's a rooftop bar. Maybe it's a nightclub. Yes. You want to signal to someone to make a move. You want this person to know that you find them attractive, that you'd like them to do something, but you want to be subtle. You don't want to reveal anything. How do you let someone know they should make a move without revealing anything? Okay. I'm going to give you some news that you probably won't like.

But it's very important. This is a phenomenon called signal amplification bias . What this is, is very well researched, that we tend to think we're being too obvious with our hints. So, if you're in a bar, they literally studied singles in a bar and nightclub environment. Women and men who think they're being obvious with their flirting hints, the other person has no idea. OK? Excellent. They even counted the number of flirtatious signals. This was an incredible research project. They observed single people mingling and counted the flirtatious gestures each person made toward the other people in the room.

They discovered that, in 10 minutes, how many signals do you think a woman took to show a man that she was interested? How many? In 10 minutes, how many signals did she have to send? When did it actually work? When it actually worked. Now that you've given me some kind of... I'll say 30. 29. Oh, okay, cool. And that. But do you know how many signals there are in 10 minutes? Signs. This is quite consistent. If you hadn't told me, I probably would have guessed three.

Okay. Just because you gave me the feeling that there was more. I probably would have said three, seven. That's what women think. I was just kidding. I gave him three flirty glances and he simply didn't approach. He's not interested. No, he didn't see him. Or he doubted himself . Or was he like, was that a trick I pulled? It took 29 signals in 10 minutes to get approached, then the other person said, "Ah, she 's interested." Just interested. That was even before the conversation began. So, what are the seductive looks of availability?

And most importantly, in the same study group, they found that attractive women—the most attractive women who are rated for their attractiveness— were approached less often than unattractive women who didn't signal enough. Fascinating. So, if you're an attractive woman and you don't give enough signals, you won't be approached. Do you need to get closer based on how objectively attractive you are? You need to be more available. So, what they discovered, and this is so ridiculous that we're evaluating based on attractiveness, but it helps us understand that sometimes I think we use attractiveness as an excuse .

I'm not pretty enough or I 'm not good enough. No. In fact, some unattractive women who signaled their availability were approached more often. Wow. So, availability really does make you more attractive. When you think about your hair, your clothes, your appearance, your scent, all those things are great, but they won't work if you don't know the body language signals of availability. And you have to be super clear with them. So, the first thing is seductive glances. Are you going to...Are you going to show it? I'll give you a demonstration .

Okay, so seductive glances are typically like gaze patterns; we scan the room with our eyes, then we see someone we like, and we... Ah, yes, a little sidelong glance. Yes, very quickly. It's a look upwards. It's like you're looking around , but then you look up. Yes, and it's either a sideways glance or a glance down and up. Looking down works well because you're looking upwards through your eyelashes. That's too much... Think of Marilyn Monroe. So, if you want to see a classic example of this, in every good photo of Marilyn Monroe, she has her chin tilted down and is looking up through her eyes.

Yes. That's a look we simply like. We simply like it, that's why we like it. So, it's about looking around the room and then avoiding eye contact, avoiding eye contact. So they are small smiles. So look and smile a little. By the way, remember that it took 29 of these. So we have to get used to trying. And the best part is that there's no pressure. If he doesn't return the gaze, right? So, eye contact, smiles. Self-touching is also considered a flirtatious look. So, if I play with my hair or play with my dress, that's a way of signaling the health of our hair from an evolutionary perspective.

It's like , "Look how healthy I am. I have long, healthy hair." I think that 's one of the reasons why we tend to like long hair. And also, when they are flirting, they touch their neck, lips, or chin. This releases pheromones. So , the reason why women sometimes touch their neck or lips is because they are trying to release their scent. And the smell is very, very important. It's important in dating, but it's also important in friendships. For example, this is a little outside the context of dating, but I just want to explain why smell is so important.

I just finished reading this study and I was thinking: what? They made women wear white t-shirts without deodorant, without anything. So, just their natural scent for 24 hours. They took these t-shirts and asked other women to smell them and rate whether they liked the smell. Okay, imagine you're opening a plastic bag and smelling a shirt. OK? This is a painful study. I would have loved it. OK? I would have loved it. Subscribe to me. The researchers, I'm there . Then they had them smell the t-shirts and rated them according to how much they liked the smell.

So, they made all the women interact in person. They didn't know who was who. The scent they liked best predicted who they liked most in person. No way. They really did find their partners. There's something to that. So, when you touch yourself like that, yes, it 's because we're trying to release that natural scent of, like, I 'll probably identify with you. Okay. If you smell good. "Good" is subjective . That's why sometimes you think , oh, we're identifying with each other. We like each other's scent.

" So, so, uh, being available too, like releasing pheromones, self-touch. And this isn't from research, but I'm really going to encourage you to try it. I think the best way to show availability is a word. And it sounds more or less like this: Hey. That's it . Right? You go to the bathroom, you go to the bar, you walk past them. Hey. Simple as that. Because look, and by the way, this is for men and women. Yes. Right? Because life is too short not to say 'hey'.

Yes. Right? And if there's no pressure. If you walk past someone at the gym, Mhm. Right? And you're like: 'Hey'." Even if they're wearing AirPods, if they like you, they'll be like, "Hey." "Right? The tone of voice matters because you say it in a... Yes, it matters. Yes, so if you say something like, 'Hey.'" "It's not like, no, that was really good. Okay, fine. Okay, so here I'll do it again. Me trying to minimize. That was good. See, men, men do well with a downward inflection.

So, that downward inflection is good. So, if it works, the guy will be like, 'Hey.'" If he doesn't like it, he 'll be like, "Hey." " Yeah. Okay. No problem. Right? Like, cool. Hey. Yeah. So, it's like the most relaxed way when you're at the market , when, by the way, even if someone has AirPods on, they 'll still see you go and they'll take their headphones off. And they'll be like, 'Hey .'" So, here's the difference, right? So, I'm using the lowest limit of my natural tone.

Mmm. This is especially important for women, but for everyone. Research shows that we decide how confident someone is within the first 200 milliseconds after hearing them speak. 200 milliseconds. This means that the most important word you can say is really: "Hey." And that. You just signaled your confidence, your lack of confidence. It's specifically about trust. Okay, so what does that mean? We are listening to relax and breathe in our vocal cords. So now I'm making a real effort to use the lowest level of my natural voice because I know people are listening and I want to keep them relaxed.

When I get nervous, I tend to raise my voice a little. I can tune it up a bit more and sound a bit more like that. Now, if I did the whole interview in that tone of voice, you'd go crazy. Absolutely, 100%. Horrible. Yes. It's contagious. We caught it. Mmm. We don't like being around people whose anxiety we can catch. We don't want to absorb their anxiety. They even discovered that we matched the resonance of the voice of the most important person in the room. So when they tested Wow., they discovered that, unconsciously, its resonance matched that of the most important person in the room, its own resonance.

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So, here's the thing. Many of us, when we feel attracted to someone, our heart rate increases, we start breathing more shallowly, and we're about to say something like, "Hey. Hey." Like, really, that's the reaction because you're so nervous. That's why we don't have enough couples. Yes, that's the reason. Reason. Because of the way we're saying " hey, yeah." So, what do we do when you're feeling that kind of attraction? Perhaps you even built it yourself. You've been going to class every day for 30 days, and this guy is showing up three times.

You 're trying to send the cue. Yes. Okay, so thankfully, now that you know, it will be very easy for you to hear yourself doing it. So, at home, if you don't mind trying this with me, I want you to listen to the upper limit of your range versus the lower limit of your range. Everyone has a natural range. So, let's start with the highest one. So, take a deep breath and say hello at the peak of your breath. Hello. Hello. This is the highest natural limit of our reach.

I never want you to sound like that. I never sound like that. You know, right? Maybe your dog. But I see people saying, "Hello." Perhaps for a baby. You are right. For my nephews. They look at me like they're saying, "Stop talking to me like that." Babies and dogs, that's fine. Babies and dogs, that's it. Because you're signaling tension, a lot of anxiety, and we don't want that. And, by the way, this happens to everyone. We hold our breath while answering the phone. Hello. You just handed over all your confidence.

Right. So, that's the highest. Let's try the lowest. So, take a few deep breaths. Relax your vocal cords, relax your shoulders, relax your jaw, relax your mouth. And then I want you to say hello on the exhale. It's going to sound like this . Hello. Hello. Hello. That's the lower limit of your range. What happens here is that when we inhale and speak on the exhale, it forces our vocal cords to relax and puts us in our lower range. So, here 's the difference. That's how I want you to say hello.

Let's try it on the phone first. So, instead of Hello. I want you to say Hello. Totally different. Just the second one? The second one. Yes. Right? So, here's the bad part. Hello. That's way too loud. Versus on the exhale. Hello. Mhm. You hear that it's still me, but I sound totally different. Totally different. You would treat me differently based on those two hellos. I started by saying that your cues change how people treat you. If you speak with confidence, people will treat you with more respect.

And that's why it 's crucial that we speak in a lower tone. So, when I was like, "Hey." I didn't say: Hey. "That's awful. It would be so awkward. Oh my God. So, a nice low 'hi' to men and women, that works. And can we just say hi to everyone? Yes. Yes, I like that. Just act like life is too short. Yes. To not say hi to a person, you're like...I like their vibe. Yes. Right? Like, let's just say hi to everyone. And if you see me at an airport, you just AB and I 'll laugh.

Yes. I love...Oh, that's nice. I like that. I really like that because I think a lot of people listening now might be thinking: but I want to be accepted for who I am. Yes. What's the difference between who we are? Yes. And how do we choose to present ourselves? Because I think people get confused. They say: 'Oh, but I 'm that kind of nervous and anxious person and all that,' but that's not who they are." "I don't believe in 'fake it till you make it.' It 's not a concept I've ever embraced ...

Yeah, none of those resonated with me. And then, notice how I did n't say, 'I want you to be like Elizabeth Holmes and say, hey. I can't even do this. How did she do it? I don't know.' She was so like, she faked that low tone. No, I wanted you to find the lowest limit of your natural tone. Mhm. First, I don't believe in 'fake it till you make it.' Second, I want you to sound like your most confident version. So, if for you, that's, hey, cool girl.

Cool. I'm in. Right? Like, I'll go. That's you and that's how you do it, I accept.' So, I want you to feel like you, but I also want you to find your resonance point. It's called your maximum resonance point. Mhm. That's speaking with, and that applies to both dating and work. That 's speaking with that part of your voice that 's open and full of power, volume, and space. And don't we all want to operate that way?" Like, I think everyone is more when they have space in their bodies, when they're occupying their space, when they have breath.

And that translates to everything. Yeah. It translates to my face. It makes my face more open. It makes my jaw more relaxed. It makes my shoulders more relaxed. So what I kind of hope is that we're finding that part of you that 's like, "Ooh, resonance." Yes. That's where the presence comes from. Yes, that's a great answer. And what's really good about that too is that if that person says, "Hey, come back." Now you're no longer at that crazy level of nervousness and anxiety where you can't cope anymore, you're in shock and don't even know how to respond, and that ruins everything.

We were talking about one of my friends who is a comedian, named Jared Fried. He has a podcast called You Up, and there was an episode where he talked about how sometimes it's hard to start a conversation with someone in class, and he said it's good to just go up to someone and say something like, "Tough class, huh?" Like, whatever, like finding common ground before you hit it off, and I think even saying it in that tone can help. Okay, so I love that tip. So you say hey and it's like hey, hey, cool.

Yeah. So you want to use it again, I like a plan. I need a specific basis. I don't like guessing. So here's your next step, a context tip. A context tip is when you use a conversation starter that's something you both share. If you don't know someone, you don't know what they share. So the only thing you can share is the context you're in, right? So that could be how you know the host if you're at a party, right? It could be how you like the food?

How you like your wine? Wow, this coffee looks like... Great. Wow, this is a tough lesson, right? So, it's something in context because, actually, this is a secret "me too" moment. So, this is the next effect. So, we're fighting and dating. Signal amplification bias. The more signals, the better. You're not being obvious, right? You think you're being obvious, but you're not. It takes 29 signals. You can count them mentally if you want, okay? So, that's the first thing we combat. After we've got that and we're really clear, the second thing we're trying to achieve is the psychological effect called the similarity attraction effect.

What is that? We like people who have similar values ​​and motivations to ours. The important thing about this is that every time we have a "me too" moment, like, "ah, we have what ?" "We have this, this creates a little cord between us. I literally imagine, during a conversation, that we're passing wires to each other. I call it the theory of wires. Like we're passing wires to each other, and the more wires go back and forth, the more connected we'll be. Oh, I like that. That's the image I use.

So, what was the first question I asked you when I met you out there was, you know, I think we have some mutual friends. Yes. Because I knew that was a connecting thread we could use, like, yeah, we both love these people. And that made everything very easy. I didn't say, like, how's the weather? Yeah. I didn't do that, right? So, do whatever you can to create as many ' me too' moments as possible. It could be talking a lot about a mutual friend. It could be talking a lot about how great this class is.

It could be, like, 'oh, the wine is so delicious.' Or 'the wine is awful,' right? Either one. So, your whole goal in that part of the conversation is..." "These moments," me too." And your question should be geared towards that. Because this is where the awkwardness happens. You're in a conversation and you have no objective. You're like, "What do you do?" Where are you from? "You know, and it's like these social topics that start dead-end conversations. So, instead, I want your goal to be for them to say, ' Me too.' Or I want to say, 'Me too.' That's it.

And it's very low pressure because everything you do and your questions have intention. Right? Like, if everything is on purpose, if everything is intentional, then our questions are looking for similarities. And that's the last step. And this applies to dating, to friendship, and even a little bit to work relationships as well. The last step is: can you find authentic reasons to like her? And I mean liking her aggressively. I think that awkwardness, the reason I was so awkward for so long, is that I was asking the wrong questions.

And I did n't know what to listen for. So, the last study completely changed my life, changed the way I interact. I was never a cool kid. I was never popular. And I... It's true. It's true. I was like I had three majors in college because I was thinking, 'What can I do to distract myself?'" "Like, I ran for student council because it was the only position that wasn't opposed. Anyway. Yeah, it was pretty cool. Um, so I found a study that looked at the cool kids in high school.

Mhm. And they examined thousands of kids from various schools, from various grades, looking for patterns. Why are some kids more popular than others? And the hypothesis was that maybe they were more athletic, maybe they were smarter, maybe they were more attractive, maybe they were more extroverted, maybe they were funnier. Right? All the things I would think, right? But there were popular kids who were all those things. But the one thing in common across all grades and schools was that the most popular kids had the longest list of people they liked.

The most popular kids had the longest list of people they liked. Which means they weren't spending all day trying to be funny, trying to be cool. They were trying to like as many people as possible. No way. One of the variables was that everyone had to make a list." of boys they liked. And the most popular boys had the longest lists. In other words, they were constantly thinking, "I like this about you." "I like that about you." That was a relief for me. Because it meant I didn't need to seem impressive, funny, outgoing, or good at sports, because I'm not.

I just need to like people in an aggressive way. So, if you want to be attractive, if you want to create bonds, in terms of friendship, in romantic terms, what I want you to do is ask yourself those questions and look for me too. And then you think, "How can I like this person more?" "Like, what could I ask? What could I find out to be authentic, like, 'I like you.' And then say it. Like, I can't tell you that my best friendships started when I did n't seem indifferent.

I don't believe in seeming indifferent. It doesn't work. I literally think, 'I like you.'" Do you want to be my friend? " Yes. Like, I have a 6 and a half year old daughter and a 2 and a half year old daughter. And I watch them at the playground and it's funny, they're like that. They literally sit in the sandbox. My daughter asked: 'Do you like trucks?'" "And the boy replied, 'I like trucks.' And she replied, 'I like trucks too.' And I said, 'Me too.'" "Good job, Claire." And then she said, "Do you want to be my friend?" He said, "Yes ." That's it.

They're friends. I said, "That's it." "Actually, we knew how to do that when we were kids." Yeah. That's what we used to do and we're kind of too cool for that. And I like that you did that and said that because I do the same thing . Oh, and you? So, no, literally, it's exactly the same thing. Friends, then? I like you. And that never happens and I love that because for me it's... I have so many friends in Los Angeles that when I first met them, I said, " I think we'd be great friends." And I'd love to see if that's true.

And now, 7 years later, whenever we go out and everyone asks, "Oh, how did you two meet?" "And then my friends always try to be polite and say, 'Oh, yes, we just met.' And I say, 'No, no, no.'" Let me tell you the story. I said I liked you and wanted to be your friend. And I love living like that because I think it makes life very clear. It makes life very easy. Everyone knows everyone's intentions . And if someone is really nice to me or not, at least I know.

Besides, I'm allergic to that. Yeah. Like, I don't get along with people who are too nice. Like, if you can't even show me that you like me or if you kind of want to put up a barrier, we won't be good friends, because I love level three conversations. I like vulnerability. I like oversharing. So, that's also like a test, I think we would be good friends. I like you. And if they say "Uh," I say " Cool." Like, that's cool. Like, I'd rather take a chance than lose.

Yeah. And then I think, if you're listening, I think it's like, if you like someone, show it. Look for those "me too" moments. And then, if you like them, well, first of all, look for reasons to like them , and if you like them... "Of course, tell me. That's the best way to try to find your people. Mhm. That will find them. The 'me too' changes a lot, because I think a lot of us, when we approach someone, if we don't ask about the weather, we usually try to compliment someone.

And that doesn't work. Vanessa, tell me why compliments don't work. We all want to be complimented, but it makes us very uncomfortable, right? Like there's this weird economy of compliments, where it's like, please compliment me, but don't do it. It's weird, right? And it also creates a kind of weird hierarchy, right. Where if you're complimenting someone, it separates them, and it also puts them in the position of receiving something they might not be ready for. I believe that, especially if you 're going to compliment someone, you should compliment them on something you have in common.

Yes. Right? So, say like, oh my god, I have those shoes, I love them too. Right? Are we twins? I mean, I think men don't usually say twins, but..." Okay, so I'll try it now that you said so. Try it. Please try it. Twinzies! See how your male friends respond. They 'll say, yes. So, I think if you're going to compliment someone, compliment a common similarity. That way, you can celebrate together. If you compliment someone in one way, you 're actually pushing them away, not bringing them closer.

That distance and hierarchy make a lot of sense, especially when someone is new. It's different if you know someone. But if you go up to someone out of the blue and say, "Wow, I really liked the color of that dress ," what are they going to say? I say, "Thank you." And now it's like, "Oh, worse." Even worse, if you said, " Vanessa, I liked the color of your dress," I'd say, "Thank you." I'd say, "I liked your color too." Yes, and I'd say, "It's black." That's what happens.

It's like you compliment someone on something and they feel uncomfortable. So, what I do is say, "I'll return the compliment." "And that sounds so fake. Mhm. Right? Because then I'm like, I don't know what to say. And, by the way, if you're going to compliment someone, don't compliment the tall guy for being tall. Mhm. Like, don't compliment someone for a feature they didn't even work on. Yeah. Like, compliment them for something they worked hard on. Yeah. I always hear that about my eyes. That's the compliment and I always say I didn't earn them, so thank you.

Like, that's my response because I'm like, I didn't do anything. Like, thanks to my parents, like, whatever. Like, what do you do? Then you're like, I like your eyes too. You know what I mean? Like, what do you say? And the person is like, they're black. Exactly. Thank you. And then you're stuck . Yeah, and you're stuck. And that's what I like about your goal. I really, really like that advice and I hope everyone uses it. We're trying to understand each other too. You need to have a goal for each." The conversation can't be about " let me move on to the next question." That's where we usually get stuck, which is like, "I'm going to live in this ' yes, yes, yes' relationship." And it's like, "Yes, where did you grow up?" What do you do for work?

Do you have siblings? "Like all these questions, you know. So, let's analyze this. Let's delve even deeper. Let's do this. So, let's say someone is doing this to you. Right, so there are two sides to a conversation. All my students are successful, very intelligent, a little awkward sometimes. It doesn't matter. People. So, what happens is that they work on social skills. They say, 'Yeah, Vanessa, I understand the context.' She replies, 'I have a topic to start a conversation with.'" I am available, whether for work or leisure.

" I am available, whether for work or play." And then they're with someone who's doing this to them . Right? Are you with someone who asks, "Where are you from? Do you have many siblings?" Okay, so that's how you break that social script. One of them is: "I want you to think about the three questions you get asked most often. So, I get the same questions I get asked over and over again in social settings. And it's usually: " What do you do?" Where are you from?

How did you get into this field of work? " That's a very common question. Yes. Right. So, the biggest mistake you can make is to get bored with those answers and show it." "Ah, I'm from Los Angeles." It's like, right ? It's like, yes, yes, I'm from Los Angeles, but that shuts down the conversation. So, I want you to think of a way to answer that question that creates a hook, a story, or a funny moment, and that's a bridge for you to ask something else.

Yes. How can you answer these questions that will change or transform the conversation a little and make it more charismatic? So, I think if someone asked you how you are, you could answer with a seven out of 10 today. Right? Or better on the inside than on the outside. Right? Whatever it is, like breaking the script. Yes. So, if you break the script with something purposeful and think, "Okay, when someone asks me where I'm from and I say Los Angeles, I know I don't want to talk about Los Angeles." Hmm.

I moved for a reason. I live in Austin, Texas now. And I want to talk about something else. So, what I usually say is, "I'm from Los Angeles, and about six years ago I moved to Austin, Texas, and now I'm a cowgirl ." Right? And I wear cowboy boots, and that's kind of my thing. Yes. And then we get into a much more interesting conversation about cowgirls or Austin, whatever their interests are, and then I'm looking for myself too. Yes. Right? Oh, I've been to Austin before .

I love...Oh, yes, tell me about Austin. Do you like tacos? I also like tacos. Right? So, I like that he weaves. So, what are the three questions you get asked most often ? And what are three responses you can use to have more "me too" moments that people actually enjoy? The other thing you can do, my last thing when I'm kind of out of it, I've been trying and trying to orient myself, is to play verbal games. And I've never talked about this on a podcast before, but let's see how this sounds.

But I do this, which is, I love guessing games. Like, I love them. So, if someone asks, how many siblings do you have? I'll tell you, I think. That is good. And I'm curious to hear what they say. Right? Because, first, people are like, what? They are surprised that I am like this. I say, " Yes." Yes. What do you think I am? I'll say, " Oh, guess what, guess what." Let's go. Yes . Let's guess, Jay. I don't know. So, yeah, guess what. I'm going to guess that you have a brother.

More. Was I going to say three? More. No way. Yes, more so. Five? Four. Four, right. And me, then, I have an older brother , three, five. Ah, you like odd numbers. Okay. Yes. I have an older brother and three younger sisters. So you can guess. And that makes everything much more fun, right? It's always fun, like, if someone guesses that I'm unique, I'm like, "How dare you?" How dare you? No, but then we talk about the unique ones, and instead of asking back, I say, "Can I guess yours?" Yes.

And sometimes I'm right, and by the way, that's very good. Guess mine. Oh my God, I don't know. Older. No, I...No, don't answer. I just screamed. Sorry. I get very serious when... Okay, I'm leaving. I'm going to leave the conversation. Newer. You mean... You're the youngest? No, I'm the oldest. You got it right the first time. I have a younger sister. Okay, so I... So it's fun to play the game and it's kind of a guessing game and then I can be like, "Oh, I didn't...

I didn't guess you." I was thinking about the oldest or the youngest. So you can have this back and forth that completely changes the dynamics of the conversation. And this is my last resort, you can play a game with them. I love this. I also love it if I can get this from Twitter and it works perfectly. If someone says it's about something. So, where are you from? I'm from London. The City of Winds. But I always say the City of Winds. It 's not the City of Winds.

Isn't it like Seattle or something? I don't even know. I don't know. But you can give funny answers, and then you and other people can joke around. That breaks the script, right? Being a little playful in conversation can also create mutual moments because you'll find your person. Yes. Right? Like, I try to be funny once in a while, and if you laugh at my jokes, we'll be friends. If you don't laugh at my jokes, it's not going to work , right? What I love about this is that we often put so much pressure on people to be interesting, and on ourselves to be interesting, and we think it's about having this unique topic to start a conversation, or an amazing point of view, or a debate that, you know, it's like we put so much pressure on ourselves , like we have to start giving a TED Talk to the person.

Yes, she's sitting next to us, and that really demotivates her. I love the guessing game. I think it applies to any of the three questions you shared. I hope that where you come from, where you live now, all of that, makes it all much more fun, and you get a sense of what someone's personality is like. And I like interactivity. It's almost like you feel this way when you're on stage a lot and talking to an audience. The thing I dislike most is someone saying, "Give a 60-minute lecture and don't involve the audience in the conversation," because suddenly it becomes a one-way street.

I think that's how we imagine interesting conversations to sound, where we can simply talk about our lives and seem interesting. Yes, I also think there's a lot of pressure to be interesting because what's interesting is different for everyone. So, if you're trying to be interesting, it's worse than faking it till you make it. What do I need to do to perform well for you? And I don't think interactions should be a performance. They should be intentional, and you're building something like: Do I belong? Do I feel accepted by you?

And that's a question I want everyone to ask themselves, especially when they think about those first impression words . Sometimes, the people who irritate you so much are there because you don't feel safe. I don't necessarily mean physically safe, I mean emotionally safe, where there are topics you're a little afraid to address or things you tread on carefully because you simply don't know how it's going to turn out. So, the other test you have while going back and forth and getting to know the person is: do I feel safe sharing my real answer?

Do I feel comfortable answering something that isn't in the script? That's not what everyone would answer. Do I feel safe enough not to be interesting? Right? Like, if we have that pressure to come in, it's a performance. If you're thinking, "I'll answer right away," and that may or may not make sense to you, then I think this is the best place to feel like you belong. Yes. Yes. And what if... What if you're in one of those conversations and you want it to end? Oh yes.

Where you think, "I want this to end ." I was looking around. I try to approach the door by taking sideways steps. Like, I'm trying to figure it out , but there's this guy hitting on me, this girl talking to me, and this person just wasting my time. I was in this bar, I was in this gym. What would I do? This is called the art of a graceful exit. And it's a skill. You have to learn that there will be times when you simply won't be with the right person, and that's normal.

Okay, then do the following. There are three steps. Okay, the first step is to start signaling nonverbally that you want to leave. Right? So, we kind of pick up on those cues subconsciously. So, the first thing to do is point your toes toward the door. When we are aligned with someone, we usually point our toes towards that person. When we're not interested in someone, we usually turn our body and feet away from the surface. A funny anecdote here is that we also tend to point our toes towards the person we have a crush on or the most interesting person in the room.

So, whenever I 'm at office parties, I almost always manage to decide which are the office passions. Fascinating. Subconsciously, even while they are talking, they will point to the person they like the most. So, when you move your toes toward the door, it subtly indicates that your body is leaning outward. So, I also want you to make less eye contact, okay? That could be a superior look. I would normally never do that in a good conversation, but you want to subtly signal to someone: I need to take a break, right ?

I need to stop. So, when you look from top to bottom, you'll be looking at the door or the bathroom. This is also another very small signal : upwards, I'm switched off. Okay, so this is the first step, the nonverbal signal. The second is to use verbal cues. What I want you to do is ask about future plans . When someone is engaged in a conversation, that person is very present. When I want to leave, I ask: "What are your plans for tomorrow?" Yes. "Do you have any big plans for the weekend?" Because wait, that's step number three.

They'll respond, like, what are their plans for tomorrow, what are their plans for the weekend, and they'll say, " Well, have a great time tomorrow or this weekend. It was great talking to you, and I'll see you later." Three steps. And the final step is to wish them the best in their future plans, thank them for the conversation, offer a handshake or a high five, and then say, "See you later." Yes, that's great, because you can't always be like, "Oh, I'll get dessert," because you might not be.

You can't just be like, "Oh, I'm leaving." Wait, I'll go with you. I go. The nightmare reaction. Like, why did I say that? Oh, you're not leaving the party yet. You just want to talk to someone else. And look, I'm being radically honest. Sometimes at parties I say to someone, like, it was really nice talking to you. I kind of want to go for a walk. There are some really nice people here. Can we talk later? Yes. That's fine too. Right? If you have any conflict with this.

But all three steps work. It's very peaceful. And there's another nonverbal clue. I'll teach you in moderation. But nodding your head makes a difference in how much people talk. Research shows that a slow, triple nod, 1, 2, 3, makes the other person talk 67% more. Yes. So , if you're in a conversation and you go "mhm mhm mhm," you're literally telling her nonverbally, "Tell me more. Keep talking." So, if you don't like ... If you're in a conversation and you like what the person is saying, use the triple nod.

That's great. You do this a lot in interviews. I love it because it keeps me going. But if you say you don't want the person to continue talking, stop waving. Stop nodding your head; it subtly encourages them. And then you can also try a quick triple wave. A slow, threefold nod shows engagement. A quick, triple nod signals that I'm finished. It's more or less like this . So here's a good one. Mmm. Mmm. Mmm. Versus mmm. Yes. Right. It's like a subtle way of saying , I understand.

I understood. In conclusion. I understood . I understood. So, subtly. Okay. You don't want to offend anyone. 67% longer, yes. That makes a lot of sense. I do this on the podcast all the time. And I've already participated in podcasts where the interviewer... Some interviewers are trained not to nod their heads at all, and I find it very difficult to talk to someone like that, especially when I have to speak. And yes, if I'm talking to someone who's shaking their head in the face, I find it very challenging.

It's...It's so...This is something very important when we talk about signs. There is a cycle. It's about decoding, encoding, and internalizing. So, you 're sending me signals. This is called encoding. So, encoding is sending signals to another person. You are sending me signals of friendliness. Nodding one's head is a sign of friendliness. Tilting your head is a sign of friendliness, right? So, that's cordiality. So, you encode that signal for me. I decode it. Ah, he likes that answer. I internalize it, I keep talking about it. As this cycle continues, if someone is stoic or silent or doesn't signal well, it kind of breaks the cycle and isolates the other person.

I work with many leaders, and they wonder why their team doesn't like to open up to them or why they are seen as intimidating or cold, and it's because they're not signaling well. They are not sending enough signals of warmth to make the other person feel that there is that connection. The other way that decoding, encoding, and internalizing works is via negative signals. So, silence is one of them. She interrupts the cycle. Positive is the next step, when we think: "Ah, this is going well." The other one is negative.

So, there was a research study that wanted to know how negative signals affect someone's physiology . So, they devised a small experiment in which they had a participant enter a room with several other people and asked someone in the room, an accomplice, to signal a sign of social rejection. So, a sign of social rejection is rolling your eyes, it's mockery, right? It's like pursing your lips. They made sure that this was pointed out to the unsuspecting participant. What they discovered was that, at the moment the participant detected the sign of social rejection, their own field of vision increased.

His pupils dilated. What happens when our pupils dilate is that we can absorb more from our environment, as if their field of vision literally increases. Why? If we see a sign of social rejection, our brain thinks: "Oops. Is someone else signaling social rejection? What did I do wrong, and where is my escape route?" In other words, if we detect a negative signal, it changes our body. Yes. So, if you're in an interview or on a date and you think, "No, I don't feel comfortable with this." Listen to this, because this is the part of your mind that reads body language and has picked up a negative signal that your brain doesn't like.

It may have been a subtle sign of social rejection. It may have been a change in your vocal pattern that you didn't notice. It may have been a negative facial expression or gesture . So, for example, in that study, they were making signs of social rejection, but they discovered that if someone shows you a microexpression of fear, they widen the whites of their eyes, and that's how we pick up on the fear. It's as if our own amygdala starts firing. So, if you feel uncomfortable with someone, listen because it means your body picked up on something it didn't like, something that felt like a threat, and you should delve into it .

What are the negative clues we might miss because we're in love with or attracted to someone? Research shows that it takes 200 hours to become close friends with someone . So, finding a soulmate or a partner takes even longer. That's many hours. And we tend to make very important decisions about a relationship in the first 6 hours. It 's not enough. So, what you said was very important is that, first, I want you to go off- script. Cafes and restaurants are very controlled environments. They've probably had many such encounters already.

I want you to go off- script. I want you to do what I call the car challenge, which is driving somewhere an hour away in them. Our! That's a lot of confidence. Yes, it's a... Well, so you've had three or four dates, right? And you think: "Okay, we're safe. Yes, you have to feel safe. Right, I feel safe, right? Then, but you think:" Is this working? Are we operational? " You might be following the script. It might be very simple, very similar, or maybe you're picking up something.

So, the challenge of the trip is when you choose a place an hour away that's a different activity. It could be a hike, it could be pickleball, it could be an art class, it could be a wine tasting, anything that isn't a normal restaurant or coffee shop. You have an hour there, about an hour of activity for our activity, and an hour back. You're going to find out in that environment how they drive or how they listen to you, how they stop to refuel, stop to buy some snacks.

Like, we're trying to see them in many different environments. How do they treat people? How do they treat their space? You want to see them off-script. That's the first thing. Then you're going to look for what I call signs of inauthenticity. Signs of inauthenticity occur when what you say doesn't match what you do n't say. And that's what liars do. So, we do a lot of lie detection at Science of People because I am..." I'm fascinated by the signals humans give when they 're not telling the truth.

And all the lie-detection signals occur when there's incongruity. It means someone is saying something but not demonstrating it. So, nodding your head is a good example of that. So, we've discovered that we have a little game in our lab where we ask for two truths and one lie. Share two truths about yourself and one lie . Sometimes people say yes but shake their heads negatively. Or they say no but shake their heads negatively. That's an incongruity, and liars often do that. So, you ask, " So, what do you think of the new girl ?" "Like," she's great." And they shake their heads negatively, but say, " Yeah, I don't." There's a hesitation there, but we don't even notice it.

But when you start paying attention, you start seeing a lot of these inconsistencies. I had a total enlightenment moment. Like, I'm like, "Oh my God." Like, I'm like, "I do this." Seeing other people doing this. Like, you know, you just: "Wow." Um, it can also be doubt, right? Like, someone can't figure out if they like the girl or not, so they kind of..." Yeah, kind of, right? " By the way, India, Bulgaria, and Pakistan shake their heads a little differently. Oh, yes, very differently. Yes, yes, yes.

I know India for sure. Right, right. So, I just like to make that observation. So, looking for inconsistencies. They say, 'I'm happy,' but they're not showing happiness. Like a fake smile, for example, a real smile is when we reach all the muscles in the upper part of the cheek. So, when I'm smiling fully, I get these crow's feet, right? If someone says to you, 'Wow, I'm so happy for you,' and their face is so blank, right? Or too much Botox, either one . This is getting harder.

It's making my job harder. You know, uh-oh, there's no real happiness here. And this happens a lot in dating, when you tell your truth, you tell your passion, your worth, or your love, and they say, 'Wow , that's nice.' And they're giving you a fake smile. They're saying that verbally everything is fine." Well, and your brain says, "Uh-huh." Often, your body picks up on, "Ooh, they said it was good, but I didn't think it was good." So, you're looking for incongruous clues or hints that someone isn't saying what they really feel.

And when you go off-script, you see a lot more of them. Yes. You see a lot, a lot more of them. I also think there are some clues that we can't read. For example, we sense fear through smell. So, I mentioned smell before. This is a study that completely surprised me . They brought people into the lab and divided them into two different groups. They had them wear sweatshirts, like sweat-wicking garments . The first group had to run on a treadmill. The second group skydived for the first time.

They took two sweat samples, right? They had treadmill sweat and fear sweat. Then, they put unsuspecting participants in an fMRI to smell these two sweat samples. They had no idea what they were smelling. Gross. Okay? I hope they paid them well. How disgusting. People who smelled the sweat of fear felt the fear. They smelled this random thing and their own amygdalae started to light up. They started to feel fear. So sometimes when you're with someone and you think, "I'm feeling so uncomfortable." Yes. There's also this illegible aspect, but I want you to pay attention because our brains are very intelligent.

They're working to protect us. And so, if you think, "I'm feeling strange," that's your alarm. It's probably your amygdala signaling that something 's not right here. Wow. I can't believe you can perceive so much by smell. Like, by smell. Oh, it's coming. The studies are coming. I can't wait for these olfactory labs to start; that's all everyone's going to do. I know. You go around smelling people. I like it . I enjoy it. If someone walks past me, I think, "I want to smell that." I want to smell that.

I think it's important. Yes, but how much, exactly, the Do perfumes help people stay lying there? So, all these studies are based on the body's natural scent. So, in these studies, they have people wear a plain white t-shirt . They don't let them use deodorant or anything like that. So, it's a natural scent. Actually, I think sometimes too much perfume or cologne is like a mask. Like, I don't know if you've ever been with someone to the point where you think, "Wow, this is too much for me." I don't like it.

I think in a relationship, you should wear a subtle perfume. Yes. Let your natural scent flow. Yes, it's very funny because, yes, yes, my wife definitely likes natural essential oils. She doesn't use any of them, and I'm happy with that, but I have a perfume that I love and she hates, but everyone in the world loves it. But she likes my natural scent, but she doesn't want me to... Yes, I totally agree with you. Yes . Um. But everyone I go to, everyone loves it, so I'm like, I'm going to keep spraying this.

Oh my God. You're like, why? For other people? True story. Yes, my wife already loves me. Oh, but you know what's really interesting about this is that I think sometimes we all know that there's a big difference between what you're sharing and teaching and people-pleasing. Mhm. There's a big difference. Mhm. But to the untrained eye, it's a fine line where people are now trying to get a reaction. Yes. And therefore, they're starting to say things they may not mean, which is not what you're suggesting. I also see people-pleasing as our deep desire to be accepted.

Yes. It's so safe for us to be loved. And then, when I look at the research... So, research from Princeton University found that , as humans, we're trying to answer two basic questions about other human beings. Can I trust you and can I rely on you? We're constantly trying to assess people's friendliness and competence . Friendliness and competence make up 82% of our judgments. 82%. And so, friendliness is really what we 're Speaking here. In this, most people exhibit an imbalance between warmth and competence. We are very cordial, perhaps not so highly competent, or we are signaling a lot of warmth but not signaling enough competence.

Very cordial people, people who are exceptionally cordial, their main desire is to be liked. Highly competent people, many of my students, want to be right. So, a highly competent person, they are always at work, they want to be on the agenda, they want to do everything right. You know you're dating someone highly competent if they're constantly checking their facts on Google. Right? They don't care if you like them, they just want to make sure they understand the facts correctly . A very warm person wants you to like them, which makes them sacrifice their credibility to be liked.

Yes. In fact, that's what people-pleasing means, in my opinion. Right. I think people-pleasing is someone who says, "I want to be loved so badly that I 'm willing to throw my competence out the window just so you'll like me." They sacrifice the need to be liked. They are loved because of their need to be respected. I say to those who want to please people: "True communication is showing both sides." You can be loved and respected. You can be friendly and trustworthy. You can be assertive and also be nice.

Hmm. One of my most popular videos is a guide for nice people on how to be assertive. Because you don't need to sacrifice one for the other. So, for those who want to please people, what I would say is that your goal is certainly to be liked, but also to ensure that people respect who you are and your values. So, if you're having "me too" moments, what you're really doing is: do you value that? Yes. Do I value that? Great, we both appreciate that. When it becomes inauthentic, when I think we're falling into manipulation, it's like I don't like it and pretend that I do.

Yes. Right, when someone has a fake "me too" moment. It was like I was watching an episode of The Kardashians and they were interviewing someone in a job interview. This is the biggest problem in job interviews. And they asked him, "Do you use QuickBooks ?" And he said, yes. And they said, "What do you use QuickBooks for?" And he said, QuickBooking. As if he didn't know . Yes, well, QuickBooks. And that wasn't authentic because he wanted to be loved. He meant that he had . He should have just said, " No, I don't have it, but I learn quickly." I believe that people who are always trying to please others get into trouble because they pretend to like something they don't actually like.

This is manipulative and doesn't help you or them. We do this, and it's done to us too, right? Let's be honest, everyone ends up doing it. Someone might act like that openly on a date, especially at the beginning. Then you realize that the person didn't know about it, didn't love that type of food, or lied unintentionally. They see through your lie. It's something we all end up doing at some point. I love them. "Now, I'm allergic to cats, but if I say, 'I just love cats,' ' Yeah.' And the other person says, 'Ugh.' And they get this signal in their body that says, ' I don't know about this person.' But actually, it was because you were just trying to be nice.

Mhm. And I'd much rather you said, 'You know what? I also love the idea of ​​cats.' Yeah. But allergic, right? And then everyone laughs. And it's all good, right? And if that's a deal-breaker for them, would n't you rather know? Totally. Especially in dating, I'd rather you create allergies in the person. So, my approach to dating, I have some single friends, is like: don't be everyone's favorite. Don't have a profile or go on a first date and try to be the most popular person. Actually, if you have things that really matter to you, share them right away.

I had a friend who was trying to date and was having a lot of trouble. I asked, 'What are you putting on your profile about yourself?'" "It was something vague and generic, like, 'I love beaches .' Everyone likes the beach. Everyone likes that. She had it all, and I said, ' Be very specific.' Like, you love beaches, but what do you hate? Yes. She said, 'I hate camping.' I said, 'Tell me.' Yes. After all, why go on a date with a guy who loves camping? That's not going to be you.

So, I think if you do n't like something, if you're looking for 'me too' moments and a ' not me too' moment comes along, what an opportunity. Yes. You have the opportunity to be super authentic and maybe a little funny and still accept it as it is, but realize, 'Okay, let's not base this on that .' If that's an obstacle for you, wouldn't you want to know? Yes, and that also starts a great conversation. I think that's the point where you think you're going to kill the energy of a conversation, but if you have an interesting point of view, you have a different direction to go, it can be great.

With my closest friends..." When we're close, we joke with each other about our differences. That also becomes a beautiful friendship. So, I think that's where people who just want to please get into trouble and feel bad about themselves because, in the end, they feel rejected. Hmm. And there's nothing worse than feeling unworthy of love or being disagreeable . Totally. I want to talk about the part you mentioned about manipulation . Hmm. Because I think charismatic and narcissistic people usually have very similar characteristics, or at least nowadays we talk about them that way.

And it's difficult because some people have this power and control and feel like they're controlling everyone as if they were pawns. And often that can be quite magnetic. We can be quite attracted to it at first because it seems... Yes, it seems like there's admiration and reverence and there's this feeling of "wow, you surprised me" and you have so much magnetic energy, only to realize it was manipulation and narcissism. How do we know the difference between charisma and narcissism? That's why I like the car test.

Usually, narcissists have a The pattern. Narcissists surprise you with their charisma at first. You 're amazed. They know how to signal warmth and competence. They're meeting me in two moments. You think, "Wow, I'm clicking." And their confidence is contagious. We love being around very confident people, which narcissists usually are . So, in that first hour, two, three hours, we're amazed. Then, normally, they follow one of two paths. The first path is that narcissists, if they don't get what they want, even if it's just a little, go into victim mode.

So, there's a misunderstanding about narcissists, which is that they're always confident. When a narcissist doesn't get what they want, or doesn't get what they think they deserve, pay attention to the expression, "I don't deserve this kind of treatment." I deserve better. "I'm worth more." Be very aware of these words. If they don't feel they're getting what they deserve, or aren't getting what they deserve , they become victims. Pay attention to this victim language, because narcissists are sometimes very charismatic, but they're playing the victim. And the victim card is really dangerous, because then everyone else is to blame .

And suddenly, you're allowing it. You think, "Wow, I have to protect you." "You're so charismatic." And that's how they 're manipulative with people, they play the victim, and you want to protect them. Yes. So, be very careful with that dynamic, because I think we often think, "Well, she's not narcissistic." She is suffering. Yes. She needs my help." Hmm. That's usually narcissistic. They 're playing the victim because they want your help, and it makes them feel good. That's a pattern. The second pattern is that a narcissist can be a very conflicted person.

A very conflicted person is very charismatic and impresses you with their charisma, but creates all these little disagreements, fights. They create conflict around them, they advance and retreat, and then they say, "I don't know." "I have no idea how that happened ." But they are constantly provoking or stirring up conflict. Watch out for that. Yes. That's another reason why those car trips, going out to restaurants and cafes, it's very easy to avoid conflict in those very controlled environments. But if someone cuts you off on the road, or someone gives you less change than you deserve, or someone is late, you see: "Wow, they're playing the victim." Or, um, they 're creating conflict where there doesn't need to be conflict.

And then, when they're brainstorming in the car, because there's something that happens when you're next to someone. Yes. I think they verbalize it differently. Usually, women like to have conversations like that, face to face. Sometimes men like to talk side-by-side. That's why they like to talk in a bar, because they're side-by-side. They like to talk during a walk or hike. They like to talk in the car. So sometimes, if you 're next to someone and that person is just driving, or you're driving and they're listening, that person says things that I wouldn't normally say that in a face-to-face conversation.

And you might hear: "Wow, that's interesting." These patterns...I didn't know you felt that way about them. "And then you want to make sure you 're looking for those secret patterns of manipulators, not just the obvious ones. Yeah, I mean, what you just said about the way we sit and talk to people, it's much easier to be open with someone if you 're not looking them in the eye, especially for men, I presume. Yeah. And there's a sense that, yeah, there's a sense that we're kind of moving in the same direction instead of against each other that comes into play.

I think there was a story about how Steve Jobs always used to walk around in meetings like that. He always wanted to walk side-by-side with people. Yeah, so, like with friends, me, or even if business friends come to town, I always ask to walk and talk, always. And I never say let's get coffee. I always say let's get tacos. Yeah. Like, just to break the script a little bit . And I think there's something about walking and moving around that also makes you breathe more, you're looking around.

I have a secret feeling that when I walk and talk to someone, that person gets more creative." Yes. She has a more open mind, she gets to places we could never have gone. I swear we could never have gone over coffee. Yes. Yes, I agree. I think what I'm learning is this off- script idea. Yes. It's just breaking the script, interrupting the pattern. Because we're all stuck in our patterns. And, by the way, that also makes us boring. Makes us less interesting. As you said before, if you're asked the same three questions, it's hard to answer them in an interesting way.

It's hard to say how many siblings you have an interesting conversation with on the 37th time over coffee. But when they're trying to guess, it's always interesting. Exactly, and that's what I love, how you interrupted the pattern, whether through the questions you ask, through gamification, or by changing the path, the way you connect. And also, let's talk about the chemistry of it. When you give an exciting or different answer, you're creating dopamine. Dopamine does many things in our bodies, but in a conversation, dopamine is the chemical.

...of motivation and excitement. So, if I asked a question or answered a question in a different way, I would highlight a new neural pathway. My brain would say, " Wow, something new." And this dopamine does a few things. First, it gets you excited. It makes you feel more positive. Second, Dr. John Medina discovered that dopamine makes you more memorable. So, if you're in a conversation and someone has had 50 first dates, or if you're in a business meeting, especially in business, I tell people to create dopamine in the meeting room.

You need to make your presentation stand out. You need to create dopamine in an interview. If you're pitching, I work with a lot of entrepreneurs, you need to create dopamine in those investors because dopamine is what makes the brain think, "Ah, this person gave me pleasure." "I want to remember her." When you activate dopamine, people are more likely to remember your name, what you said, and what you care about. So, if you want to be more memorable, the best thing to do is try to create exciting moments for both of you.

"Me too" moments are usually exciting. That's the secret motivation for why I want to have "me too" moments. And also sharing stories. I kind of have a toolbox for stories. I like to keep all my favorite stories in a little note on my phone because I like to tell them, you know? And then, like, start collecting or cataloging stories, because they are gifts to people. You tell a good story, someone says, "Ha." Yeah. Like, they love it. And lastly, there's the excitement. So, when we talk about conversation starters, I have a few favorites.

So, if you're going to stop asking, "What do you do?" Where are you from? "I love context tips. Another thing you can do with people you already know, especially at work, is to ask : 'Are you working on anything interesting?'" "So, I had this problem where I would see people I kind of knew, like friends of friends or relatives I don't see all the time, and I would ask, 'How's life?'" "Like," What do you do? "So now I always ask: 'Working on something cool lately?'" "That's a dopamine gift to their brains.

Hmm. Because in their brains they have to say, 'Ah.' You broke their script. Exciting, thrilling, exciting. They're literally searching for something interesting in their brains. When they find it, they say, 'Ah, yeah, you know, actually.' And they tell you. So, actually, you're extracting dopamine , you're borrowing from another area of ​​their lives. And, by the way, if they say no, what a great opportunity for vulnerability. Like , I've asked this once in 10 times. I say, 'Are you working on something interesting or do you have something interesting to do?'" And they say, "No." Yes.

And I say, "Wow." What is happening? "Tell me what's really going on in your life." Yes. And we skipped ahead. "How are you?" Busy, that's fine . If you ask someone, "How are you?" They will say: "Busy, well, well, busy." And you? " Yes, 100%. I prefer to overcome that. And then, asking that question is a breakthrough. So, keep that one in your back pocket because it's my favorite. You literally read my mind. I was about to go to work. So, oh yeah, let's go. You've already gotten ahead of me, which is great.

So, I'm really glad you gave the alternative, because a lot of people have been asking that question lately. Mhm. And they really feel a lot of pressure. Mhm. Because I think we're living in a time when everyone is doing something so big, which is what it seems like. Yeah. And then, when you ask someone that, the person gets scared that they don't have something big to say. And then they either shrink back, or they get scared of that conversation. They say, 'I really don't want to talk about it .' Sometimes I hear that a lot.

Or someone says, 'Wow, that's a lot of pressure.'" Exciting? "I'm just trying to survive. That's how it goes. And it's interesting that, although it's a much better question than ' what do you do,' how's life? How's it going? That can create some friction. And I really like talking about that when things don't go your way. So, I just want to acknowledge that it takes courage to break scripts. Yes. I know scripts are comfortable. Like, I know the reason we're like, how are you? Good. It's because it's safe.

Mhm. And so I want you to acknowledge yourself if you're thinking about asking those questions. Like, it requires a little bit of social courage, but it's worth it. Mhm. And so yeah, we have to embrace, like, okay, it might be uncomfortable. You might not have a good answer to that or a good answer, I didn't say a good answer. They might not have an exciting answer or they might be more vulnerable, but any answer is an opportunity for connection. Mhm. Whatever they say, at least it 's not a social script.

Yes. And your other option, then you can accept with vulnerability. Oh my." God, tell me, tell me what's been difficult? What's going on ? Or you might have your own answer. So I asked someone this question and they were like, uh. And they're kind of thinking about it. And I say, well, while you think about it, here's what's exciting for me. And then, and then I get the ball back. That's good. That's good. Right? So, the conversation is like football, right? We're passing the ball from one side to the other, or basketball.

I don't really play sports. What sport do you like to pass the ball in? Rugby? I don't know. So, like, you pass the ball from one side to the other, but in basketball you have to dribble. Right? So, like, I shouldn't use sports metaphors. I really shouldn't. I don't understand anything about sports. Basketball was the closest. Right. It's going to be hard to find another one where we pass the ball from one side to the other . When I ask, "Have you done anything exciting recently?" "I pass the ball to you.

And then you hold the ball and think, 'If you can't think of anything, take the ball back.' Right? Like, take it back from them. Then they say, 'Okay.' And they can hear, they can think. And that also works very well. Yes, and every question I ask people, anything you ask someone, make sure you know the answer yourself. Totally. Right? Because I think a lot of times we ask a question and they say, 'Well, and you?'" "And you 're like, 'Oh, and you're like, 'Oh, I don't know.' You know, so be ready to answer.

I also want to make an effort here if anyone is willing to be courageous, which means we're more interesting and exciting when we do interesting and exciting things. That means getting off social media. That means not watching the show everyone else is watching. That means getting up and trying different things. And then I also like a little side, like, I just want to share with the world that we can always be working on something a little bit exciting or a little bit interesting for ourselves. And if the side benefit is having great conversations, great.

When you become known for asking these questions, you also inspire others to do something a little bit more courageous. And for example, I have a friend who always, whenever we get together, he always asks, 'What are you learning?'" "And the first time he asked me that question, I was like, 'Huh?'" "I was thinking: I'm learning how to survive having children. But now, I know he's going to ask me that question. You know what? I'm going to go crazy. I learn something every time I see him.

Yeah. Like, I'm going to look for something to learn. And you know what? It makes me better. Yeah. Like, he had the courage to ask me that question for the first time and I did n't have a good answer. And he rescued me. He talked about what he was learning. But now, I'm better because of that question because I want to learn something every time I see him. And speaking of work, I realized that my team is all over the world. Yay, the Science We Love team.

We're all over the world and I have a virtual team call on Tuesdays. I noticed that the first 5 minutes of our call were like this, kind of small talk, kind of negative, kind of weird. So I thought: you know what? We're going to have a new routine, as soon as we start the call, we're all going to share 'tell me something good' . Mhm. And then our team meeting always starts with 'tell me "Something nice ." We take turns and everyone shares something nice, something small, something big.

And that not only makes our team bonding much more interesting because I learn very interesting things about my team. But one of the people on my team told me that Monday is her day to do something nice. Because she wants to have something nice to share in the meeting. Yes. So, be the person known for that. Do something to break the ice in your team meetings. I send an icebreaker every Monday in my newsletter. Every Monday, I have an interesting, kind of exciting, work-appropriate icebreaker that's a gift for you.

Yes. So, be the person known for bringing these things to break the ice , and people might grumble and roll their eyes, but you know what ? Secretly, they like it. Yes, of course they do. Secretly they like it. And they know it's not your person. Yes.

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