“You Don’t Notice It… Until Your Life Is Already Off Track" — How to Take Back Control | Nir Eyal

Most of us are not seeing reality. We're Most of us are not seeing reality. We're seeing a version of the world created by seeing a version of the world created by seeing a version of the world created by our beliefs. our beliefs. our beliefs. [snorts] [snorts] [snorts] >> What does that mean? >> What does that mean? >> What does that mean? >> It means that none of us are actually >> It means that none of us are actually >> It means that none of us are actually seeing reality as it is. That it's seeing reality as it is. That it's seeing reality as it is. That it's impossible. We can't. Our brains can't impossible. We can't. Our brains can't impossible. We can't. Our brains can't handle it. That we know that the brain handle it. That we know that the brain handle it. That we know that the brain is processing about 11 million bits of is processing about 11 million bits of is processing about 11 million bits of information per second. 11 million bits. information per second. 11 million bits. information per second. 11 million bits. To put that in perspective, that's the To put that in perspective, that's the To put that in perspective, that's the equivalent of reading war and peace equivalent of reading war and peace equivalent of reading war and peace every second twice. It's a tremendous every second twice. It's a tremendous every second twice. It's a tremendous amount of information. So the brain amount of information. So the brain amount of information. So the brain can't deal with that much information. can't deal with that much information. can't deal with that much information. It can only consciously be aware of It can only consciously be aware of It can only consciously be aware of about 50 bits of information. So that about 50 bits of information. So that about 50 bits of information. So that means that you are seeing reality means that you are seeing reality means that you are seeing reality through this tiny pinhole of attention. through this tiny pinhole of attention. through this tiny pinhole of attention. So you're only seeing 0.000045% So you're only seeing 0.000045% So you're only seeing 0.000045% of what you think is reality. And so of what you think is reality. And so of what you think is reality. And so what the brain is doing is essentially what the brain is doing is essentially what the brain is doing is essentially filtering reality based on its beliefs. filtering reality based on its beliefs. filtering reality based on its beliefs. Not based on what reality is but how we Not based on what reality is but how we Not based on what reality is but how we expect it to be. It's called predictive expect it to be. It's called predictive expect it to be. It's called predictive processing. And so understanding that we processing. And so understanding that we processing. And so understanding that we don't see reality clearly is at the core don't see reality clearly is at the core don't see reality clearly is at the core I think of of living a good life because I think of of living a good life because I think of of living a good life because uh it's only when we free ourselves from uh it's only when we free ourselves from uh it's only when we free ourselves from this myth that we see everything that we this myth that we see everything that we this myth that we see everything that we see, feel, and do because we believe see, feel, and do because we believe see, feel, and do because we believe it's a fact versus something that's it's a fact versus something that's it's a fact versus something that's that's much more malleable. Uh that that's much more malleable. Uh that that's much more malleable. Uh that that's truly what frees us is that that's truly what frees us is that that's truly what frees us is that understanding that we don't see reality understanding that we don't see reality understanding that we don't see reality clearly. For someone who might be clearly. For someone who might be clearly. For someone who might be pushing back against the idea right now, pushing back against the idea right now, pushing back against the idea right now, they're thinking, "Well, what do you they're thinking, "Well, what do you they're thinking, "Well, what do you mean? We don't see the world as it is. mean? We don't see the world as it is. mean? We don't see the world as it is. We see it based on our beliefs." Do you We see it based on our beliefs." Do you We see it based on our beliefs." Do you have any, I guess, concrete examples have any, I guess, concrete examples have any, I guess, concrete examples that can illustrate that point for that can illustrate that point for that can illustrate that point for people? people? people? >> Oh, the examples are endless from the >> Oh, the examples are endless from the >> Oh, the examples are endless from the research literature when it comes to um research literature when it comes to um research literature when it comes to um I can show you an an image and based on I can show you an an image and based on I can show you an an image and based on where you were born, this is called a where you were born, this is called a where you were born, this is called a coffer illusion. Based on where you were coffer illusion. Based on where you were coffer illusion. Based on where you were born, you will either see squares or born, you will either see squares or born, you will either see squares or circles. Same exact image, but you will circles. Same exact image, but you will circles. Same exact image, but you will process it differently based on on your process it differently based on on your process it differently based on on your background. Whether you grew up in a in background. Whether you grew up in a in background. Whether you grew up in a in a a rural environment or an urban a a rural environment or an urban a a rural environment or an urban environment, uh you can um we know that environment, uh you can um we know that environment, uh you can um we know that people who are on a diet see food as people who are on a diet see food as people who are on a diet see food as larger. People who are afraid of heights larger. People who are afraid of heights larger. People who are afraid of heights see distances as further. So the saying see distances as further. So the saying see distances as further. So the saying that I'll believe it when I see it is that I'll believe it when I see it is that I'll believe it when I see it is actually just as true backwards. That I actually just as true backwards. That I actually just as true backwards. That I I see it when I believe it. Yeah. In I see it when I believe it. Yeah. In I see it when I believe it. Yeah. In your new book, Beyond Belief, which I your new book, Beyond Belief, which I your new book, Beyond Belief, which I absolutely love, you you give so many absolutely love, you you give so many absolutely love, you you give so many examples of this. I remember right at examples of this. I remember right at examples of this. I remember right at the start there's a chess board, the start there's a chess board, the start there's a chess board, >> a checkerboard, and I was looking at it >> a checkerboard, and I was looking at it >> a checkerboard, and I was looking at it this morning because this morning because this morning because >> I still can't get my head around it. Can >> I still can't get my head around it. Can >> I still can't get my head around it. Can you explain that for people who who were you explain that for people who who were you explain that for people who who were listening perhaps? I mean, on the video listening perhaps? I mean, on the video listening perhaps? I mean, on the video or maybe pop it up on screen, but just or maybe pop it up on screen, but just or maybe pop it up on screen, but just help [clears throat] help us understand help [clears throat] help us understand help [clears throat] help us understand that and and what are the implications that and and what are the implications that and and what are the implications of that for us? of that for us? of that for us? >> Sure. So, there's a classic optical >> Sure. So, there's a classic optical >> Sure. So, there's a classic optical illusion where you see a checkerboard illusion where you see a checkerboard illusion where you see a checkerboard and uh you when you look at it, one and uh you when you look at it, one and uh you when you look at it, one square definitely looks darker than the square definitely looks darker than the square definitely looks darker than the other for sure. Nobody looks at this and other for sure. Nobody looks at this and other for sure. Nobody looks at this and thinks that they're the same color. thinks that they're the same color. thinks that they're the same color. Except they are the same color. Except they are the same color. Except they are the same color. >> That when we put um bars of that shade >> That when we put um bars of that shade >> That when we put um bars of that shade of gray next to both squares and you can of gray next to both squares and you can of gray next to both squares and you can see that they are definitely in fact the see that they are definitely in fact the see that they are definitely in fact the same color even though they don't look same color even though they don't look same color even though they don't look like that. Now, that's nice. Cute little like that. Now, that's nice. Cute little like that. Now, that's nice. Cute little optical illusion, but the question is optical illusion, but the question is optical illusion, but the question is why? Why can't we see reality as it is? why? Why can't we see reality as it is? why? Why can't we see reality as it is? That even when I rem when when you look That even when I rem when when you look That even when I rem when when you look back at the first image that even though back at the first image that even though back at the first image that even though you know the squares are now the same you know the squares are now the same you know the squares are now the same color, you know intellectually that that color, you know intellectually that that color, you know intellectually that that is the case, you still can't see reality is the case, you still can't see reality is the case, you still can't see reality clearly, it still looks like square A is clearly, it still looks like square A is clearly, it still looks like square A is start is darker than square B. Even when start is darker than square B. Even when start is darker than square B. Even when you know the truth and so the startling you know the truth and so the startling you know the truth and so the startling reality here or the the startling reality here or the the startling reality here or the the startling revelation here is that your brain is revelation here is that your brain is revelation here is that your brain is lying to you. It's constantly deceiving lying to you. It's constantly deceiving lying to you. It's constantly deceiving you because the brain doesn't see you because the brain doesn't see you because the brain doesn't see reality as it is. It sees reality as it reality as it is. It sees reality as it reality as it is. It sees reality as it predicts it will be. So based on your predicts it will be. So based on your predicts it will be. So based on your priors, what we call your your prior priors, what we call your your prior priors, what we call your your prior beliefs, you can't see it on any other beliefs, you can't see it on any other beliefs, you can't see it on any other way because to you a checkerboard always way because to you a checkerboard always way because to you a checkerboard always looks a certain way. And so when we when looks a certain way. And so when we when looks a certain way. And so when we when we deceive the eyes and the brain, even we deceive the eyes and the brain, even we deceive the eyes and the brain, even when intellectually you know the answer, when intellectually you know the answer, when intellectually you know the answer, there's nothing you can do about it. You there's nothing you can do about it. You there's nothing you can do about it. You can't see it otherwise. And so that's can't see it otherwise. And so that's can't see it otherwise. And so that's why it's so important to realize that, why it's so important to realize that, why it's so important to realize that, you know, if that's just an optical you know, if that's just an optical you know, if that's just an optical illusion, what about all the other myths illusion, what about all the other myths illusion, what about all the other myths and lies that I'm believing that I've and lies that I'm believing that I've and lies that I'm believing that I've adopted for myself? We call these adopted for myself? We call these adopted for myself? We call these limiting beliefs. And we see this all limiting beliefs. And we see this all limiting beliefs. And we see this all the time that, you know, the middle of the time that, you know, the middle of the time that, you know, the middle of the word, it's just a coincidence. We the word, it's just a coincidence. We the word, it's just a coincidence. We can't read too much into it, but you can't read too much into it, but you can't read too much into it, but you can't spell belief without lie. can't spell belief without lie. can't spell belief without lie. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's in the middle of the word, right? >> It's in the middle of the word, right? >> It's in the middle of the word, right? And so I think it's important to And so I think it's important to And so I think it's important to differentiate differentiate differentiate what what I think we get wrong about what what I think we get wrong about what what I think we get wrong about reality in a way that facts and beliefs reality in a way that facts and beliefs reality in a way that facts and beliefs are different. That a fact is is a are different. That a fact is is a are different. That a fact is is a objective truth. It is something that is objective truth. It is something that is objective truth. It is something that is true whether or not you believe it. So true whether or not you believe it. So true whether or not you believe it. So the world is more like a sphere than it the world is more like a sphere than it the world is more like a sphere than it is uh flat. That's a fact. Sorry flat is uh flat. That's a fact. Sorry flat is uh flat. That's a fact. Sorry flat earthers. The the world doesn't the the earthers. The the world doesn't the the earthers. The the world doesn't the the shape of the globe doesn't care what you shape of the globe doesn't care what you shape of the globe doesn't care what you believe. That's an objective truth. You believe. That's an objective truth. You believe. That's an objective truth. You can't change object objective truths. On can't change object objective truths. On can't change object objective truths. On the other end of the spectrum is faith. the other end of the spectrum is faith. the other end of the spectrum is faith. Faith is a conviction that does not Faith is a conviction that does not Faith is a conviction that does not require evidence. Um so God rewards the require evidence. Um so God rewards the require evidence. Um so God rewards the righteous. That's a matter of faith. righteous. That's a matter of faith. righteous. That's a matter of faith. >> Now in between facts and faith lies a >> Now in between facts and faith lies a >> Now in between facts and faith lies a belief. A belief is a conviction that is belief. A belief is a conviction that is belief. A belief is a conviction that is open to revision based on new evidence. open to revision based on new evidence. open to revision based on new evidence. And that's that's something new. And And that's that's something new. And And that's that's something new. And that's something I think we don't think that's something I think we don't think that's something I think we don't think about enough that unfortunately about enough that unfortunately about enough that unfortunately I think that most of our interpersonal I think that most of our interpersonal I think that most of our interpersonal our uh our problems with relationships our uh our problems with relationships our uh our problems with relationships our the the difficulties we struggle our the the difficulties we struggle our the the difficulties we struggle with on our own even our geopolitical with on our own even our geopolitical with on our own even our geopolitical problems come from this unfortunate problems come from this unfortunate problems come from this unfortunate state of affairs that too many of us state of affairs that too many of us state of affairs that too many of us have this conviction that our faith is a have this conviction that our faith is a have this conviction that our faith is a fact and that what we think are facts fact and that what we think are facts fact and that what we think are facts are nothing more than beliefs. are nothing more than beliefs. are nothing more than beliefs. >> Yeah. I mean I love I love this topic. >> Yeah. I mean I love I love this topic. >> Yeah. I mean I love I love this topic. It's something I've been thinking deeply It's something I've been thinking deeply It's something I've been thinking deeply about for years and near I would say one about for years and near I would say one about for years and near I would say one of the of the of the biggest things that has changed the biggest things that has changed the biggest things that has changed the quality of my life over the past quality of my life over the past quality of my life over the past >> five or even 10 years is is really >> five or even 10 years is is really >> five or even 10 years is is really understanding this idea that you can understanding this idea that you can understanding this idea that you can choose your beliefs choose your beliefs choose your beliefs >> and you know as you eloquently say in >> and you know as you eloquently say in >> and you know as you eloquently say in the book the book the book >> you know whether they're true or not is >> you know whether they're true or not is >> you know whether they're true or not is semi- irrelevant it's are they working semi- irrelevant it's are they working semi- irrelevant it's are they working for you before we get into that one for you before we get into that one for you before we get into that one thing you said there I just want to thing you said there I just want to thing you said there I just want to touch based upon uh I'm not a flat touch based upon uh I'm not a flat touch based upon uh I'm not a flat earther just to be clear here right but earther just to be clear here right but earther just to be clear here right but a lot of the time throughout history a lot of the time throughout history a lot of the time throughout history >> we have absorbed things and thought they >> we have absorbed things and thought they >> we have absorbed things and thought they were facts and found out later they were were facts and found out later they were were facts and found out later they were not actually facts. So there would have not actually facts. So there would have not actually facts. So there would have been a time in history where saying the been a time in history where saying the been a time in history where saying the world is spherical world is spherical world is spherical people would have probably called you people would have probably called you people would have probably called you crazy right. So, so even the even what crazy right. So, so even the even what crazy right. So, so even the even what what qualifies as a fact, I think we we what qualifies as a fact, I think we we what qualifies as a fact, I think we we need to sometimes soften our viewpoint need to sometimes soften our viewpoint need to sometimes soften our viewpoint of facts. Of course, some things are of facts. Of course, some things are of facts. Of course, some things are objective. I'm I'm not I'm not disputing objective. I'm I'm not I'm not disputing objective. I'm I'm not I'm not disputing that. But I think what happens when you that. But I think what happens when you that. But I think what happens when you start to update your beliefs is that you start to update your beliefs is that you start to update your beliefs is that you take a much softer approach to the take a much softer approach to the take a much softer approach to the world. You're you're less fixed in your world. You're you're less fixed in your world. You're you're less fixed in your viewpoint. You're more able to update viewpoint. You're more able to update viewpoint. You're more able to update things, even facts. Like I don't know, things, even facts. Like I don't know, things, even facts. Like I don't know, as a doctor in the 70s and ' 80s, we as a doctor in the 70s and ' 80s, we as a doctor in the 70s and ' 80s, we thought antibiotics were amazing. thought antibiotics were amazing. thought antibiotics were amazing. bacteria were bad. bacteria were bad. bacteria were bad. >> That was a fact back then. Bacteria are >> That was a fact back then. Bacteria are >> That was a fact back then. Bacteria are bad. Antibiotics kill them. bad. Antibiotics kill them. bad. Antibiotics kill them. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And then we've learned over the years, >> And then we've learned over the years, >> And then we've learned over the years, well, wait a minute, there's a ton of well, wait a minute, there's a ton of well, wait a minute, there's a ton of bacteria in our guts. They're actually bacteria in our guts. They're actually bacteria in our guts. They're actually really good. really good. really good. >> So, that used to be a fact, but actually >> So, that used to be a fact, but actually >> So, that used to be a fact, but actually it was a belief that we've now updated. it was a belief that we've now updated. it was a belief that we've now updated. Do you do you see what I'm saying? Do you do you see what I'm saying? Do you do you see what I'm saying? >> Absolutely. And and look, one of the >> Absolutely. And and look, one of the >> Absolutely. And and look, one of the things that I hate hearing is science things that I hate hearing is science things that I hate hearing is science says says says >> Yeah, me too. >> Yeah, me too. >> Yeah, me too. >> It's science doesn't say anything. >> It's science doesn't say anything. >> It's science doesn't say anything. Science gives us evidence that we have Science gives us evidence that we have Science gives us evidence that we have to consider, see if it replicates, to consider, see if it replicates, to consider, see if it replicates, consider new evidence as it comes in. consider new evidence as it comes in. consider new evidence as it comes in. We're always collecting new evidence and We're always collecting new evidence and We're always collecting new evidence and then determining what we think is a then determining what we think is a then determining what we think is a fact. But the thing is, most of the fact. But the thing is, most of the fact. But the thing is, most of the decisions we make in day-to-day life, decisions we make in day-to-day life, decisions we make in day-to-day life, they're not based on facts. They're they're not based on facts. They're they're not based on facts. They're based on beliefs. Should I take this based on beliefs. Should I take this based on beliefs. Should I take this job? Should I marry this person? Should job? Should I marry this person? Should job? Should I marry this person? Should I um go into business with that person? I um go into business with that person? I um go into business with that person? Should I move here? Should I do this? Should I move here? Should I do this? Should I move here? Should I do this? Most of what we do dayto-day is not Most of what we do dayto-day is not Most of what we do dayto-day is not we're not thinking about these we're not thinking about these we're not thinking about these factualbased questions all day long. factualbased questions all day long. factualbased questions all day long. What's really practical, I think, in my What's really practical, I think, in my What's really practical, I think, in my life is life is life is decoupling the need for my beliefs to decoupling the need for my beliefs to decoupling the need for my beliefs to have the bar of proof of a fact. That have the bar of proof of a fact. That have the bar of proof of a fact. That most of the the decisions I make in my most of the the decisions I make in my most of the the decisions I make in my life, I'm making based on these beliefs life, I'm making based on these beliefs life, I'm making based on these beliefs because they are predictions about the because they are predictions about the because they are predictions about the future. All these day-to-day questions future. All these day-to-day questions future. All these day-to-day questions are based on what will happen. And so, are based on what will happen. And so, are based on what will happen. And so, this isn't based on the laws of physics. this isn't based on the laws of physics. this isn't based on the laws of physics. It's not the laws of nature. It's based It's not the laws of nature. It's based It's not the laws of nature. It's based on a belief. And that belief, where does on a belief. And that belief, where does on a belief. And that belief, where does that live? It lives up here. Yeah. that live? It lives up here. Yeah. that live? It lives up here. Yeah. >> So things like it's too late. I don't >> So things like it's too late. I don't >> So things like it's too late. I don't have enough time. That's probably the have enough time. That's probably the have enough time. That's probably the most common limiting belief I hear all most common limiting belief I hear all most common limiting belief I hear all the time is there's no time. Um I'm not the time is there's no time. Um I'm not the time is there's no time. Um I'm not ready. This is hard. Right? These ready. This is hard. Right? These ready. This is hard. Right? These beliefs. So So it might be important to beliefs. So So it might be important to beliefs. So So it might be important to um to talk about why are beliefs even um to talk about why are beliefs even um to talk about why are beliefs even important in the first place. Right? Why important in the first place. Right? Why important in the first place. Right? Why do we need them? do we need them? do we need them? >> So when we look at what is the most >> So when we look at what is the most >> So when we look at what is the most important factor on whether you will important factor on whether you will important factor on whether you will achieve your goals, right? Who achieves achieve your goals, right? Who achieves achieve your goals, right? Who achieves their goals and who doesn't? Turns out their goals and who doesn't? Turns out their goals and who doesn't? Turns out it's not intelligence, although that it's not intelligence, although that it's not intelligence, although that helps. It's not resources, although that helps. It's not resources, although that helps. It's not resources, although that helps. The most important determinant of helps. The most important determinant of helps. The most important determinant of whether you will reach your your goals. whether you will reach your your goals. whether you will reach your your goals. It's not even information. It's not It's not even information. It's not It's not even information. It's not knowing the right answer. I mean, we're knowing the right answer. I mean, we're knowing the right answer. I mean, we're we're swimming in information. If you we're swimming in information. If you we're swimming in information. If you don't know the answer to something, don't know the answer to something, don't know the answer to something, Google it, ask GPD. The answers are Google it, ask GPD. The answers are Google it, ask GPD. The answers are there. Read a book about it. The answers there. Read a book about it. The answers there. Read a book about it. The answers are out there. are out there. are out there. >> The problem is not that we don't know or >> The problem is not that we don't know or >> The problem is not that we don't know or that we don't have enough resources or that we don't have enough resources or that we don't have enough resources or that we don't have the right skills. We that we don't have the right skills. We that we don't have the right skills. We can learn these things. can learn these things. can learn these things. The problem is persistence. It's as The problem is persistence. It's as The problem is persistence. It's as simple as that. that the number one simple as that. that the number one simple as that. that the number one factor to determine if you will achieve factor to determine if you will achieve factor to determine if you will achieve your goals is whether or not you quit. your goals is whether or not you quit. your goals is whether or not you quit. >> Of course it is because when you quit >> Of course it is because when you quit >> Of course it is because when you quit 100% of the time you will not reach your 100% of the time you will not reach your 100% of the time you will not reach your goal. Now it doesn't mean that quitting goal. Now it doesn't mean that quitting goal. Now it doesn't mean that quitting is always the wrong thing but is always the wrong thing but is always the wrong thing but persistence turns out to be the most persistence turns out to be the most persistence turns out to be the most important factor. Now if we know that important factor. Now if we know that important factor. Now if we know that let's go a layer deeper. What what let's go a layer deeper. What what let's go a layer deeper. What what allows us to persist? Can I tell you a allows us to persist? Can I tell you a allows us to persist? Can I tell you a quick study quick study quick study >> please? So, this is a a classic study um >> please? So, this is a a classic study um >> please? So, this is a a classic study um that was done in the 1950s by a that was done in the 1950s by a that was done in the 1950s by a biologist by the name of Kurt Richtor. biologist by the name of Kurt Richtor. biologist by the name of Kurt Richtor. And Kurt Richtor had a very simple And Kurt Richtor had a very simple And Kurt Richtor had a very simple question. How long can a wild rat swim? question. How long can a wild rat swim? question. How long can a wild rat swim? >> I love this study. I I freaking love >> I love this study. I I freaking love >> I love this study. I I freaking love this study. So, I'm I'm excited you're this study. So, I'm I'm excited you're this study. So, I'm I'm excited you're about to go through it. about to go through it. about to go through it. >> And so, I I want to demonstrate uh how >> And so, I I want to demonstrate uh how >> And so, I I want to demonstrate uh how we can manipulate persistence, at least we can manipulate persistence, at least we can manipulate persistence, at least in these rat models, and it does carry in these rat models, and it does carry in these rat models, and it does carry over to uh to humans as well. So, here's over to uh to humans as well. So, here's over to uh to humans as well. So, here's what he does. He takes a wild rat. You what he does. He takes a wild rat. You what he does. He takes a wild rat. You can't do these kind of experiments can't do these kind of experiments can't do these kind of experiments anymore, but thank goodness. But, uh, anymore, but thank goodness. But, uh, anymore, but thank goodness. But, uh, the rats are already dead, so we can the rats are already dead, so we can the rats are already dead, so we can learn from them. Here's what he does. He learn from them. Here's what he does. He learn from them. Here's what he does. He takes a wild rat. He measures how long takes a wild rat. He measures how long takes a wild rat. He measures how long this rat can swim in a cylinder of this rat can swim in a cylinder of this rat can swim in a cylinder of water. Turns out about 15 minutes. A water. Turns out about 15 minutes. A water. Turns out about 15 minutes. A stressed wild rat swims for about 15 stressed wild rat swims for about 15 stressed wild rat swims for about 15 minutes before it it kind of gives up. minutes before it it kind of gives up. minutes before it it kind of gives up. Okay, he has that piece of information. Okay, he has that piece of information. Okay, he has that piece of information. Now, he wants to determine, can he Now, he wants to determine, can he Now, he wants to determine, can he increase the rat's persistence. So, increase the rat's persistence. So, increase the rat's persistence. So, here's what he does. He gets a new group here's what he does. He gets a new group here's what he does. He gets a new group of wild rats. He puts them in the same of wild rats. He puts them in the same of wild rats. He puts them in the same cylinders of water. And now at the cylinders of water. And now at the cylinders of water. And now at the 15-minute mark, he reaches in, pulls out 15-minute mark, he reaches in, pulls out 15-minute mark, he reaches in, pulls out the rat, dries it off, lets it catch its the rat, dries it off, lets it catch its the rat, dries it off, lets it catch its breath, and then plunk back into the breath, and then plunk back into the breath, and then plunk back into the cylinder it goes. And this time he wants cylinder it goes. And this time he wants cylinder it goes. And this time he wants to measure how long how much longer the to measure how long how much longer the to measure how long how much longer the rat will swim for. And he does this a rat will swim for. And he does this a rat will swim for. And he does this a couple times. And so when I when I couple times. And so when I when I couple times. And so when I when I present this study to folks and I ask present this study to folks and I ask present this study to folks and I ask them, okay, guess the rat started at 15 them, okay, guess the rat started at 15 them, okay, guess the rat started at 15 minutes. How much longer after this minutes. How much longer after this minutes. How much longer after this intervention, after the rat saw that intervention, after the rat saw that intervention, after the rat saw that hope is possible, that uh salvation hope is possible, that uh salvation hope is possible, that uh salvation might occur, that maybe this hand will might occur, that maybe this hand will might occur, that maybe this hand will reach in and save it, how much longer reach in and save it, how much longer reach in and save it, how much longer did the rat swim. So people guess, oh, did the rat swim. So people guess, oh, did the rat swim. So people guess, oh, maybe 100% longer. They went from 15 maybe 100% longer. They went from 15 maybe 100% longer. They went from 15 minutes to 30 minutes, which would be minutes to 30 minutes, which would be minutes to 30 minutes, which would be amazing. And then some people would take amazing. And then some people would take amazing. And then some people would take a wild guess and they say, "Maybe maybe a wild guess and they say, "Maybe maybe a wild guess and they say, "Maybe maybe 60 minutes. Wouldn't that be amazing if 60 minutes. Wouldn't that be amazing if 60 minutes. Wouldn't that be amazing if you could persist four times longer? You you could persist four times longer? You you could persist four times longer? You could run that race four times longer. could run that race four times longer. could run that race four times longer. You could persist on that difficult uh You could persist on that difficult uh You could persist on that difficult uh uh project you're working on four times uh project you're working on four times uh project you're working on four times longer. That would be amazing to be four longer. That would be amazing to be four longer. That would be amazing to be four times more persistent. But the rats times more persistent. But the rats times more persistent. But the rats didn't swim for 60 minutes. The rats didn't swim for 60 minutes. The rats didn't swim for 60 minutes. The rats swam [clears throat] for 60 hours. 60 swam [clears throat] for 60 hours. 60 swam [clears throat] for 60 hours. 60 hours of non-stop swimming from 15 hours of non-stop swimming from 15 hours of non-stop swimming from 15 minutes originally and they died at 15 minutes originally and they died at 15 minutes originally and they died at 15 minutes. They gave up. minutes. They gave up. minutes. They gave up. >> That's amazing. And so that's kind of >> That's amazing. And so that's kind of >> That's amazing. And so that's kind of the the the the kicking off point of of the the the the kicking off point of of the the the the kicking off point of of this research. When I heard that study, this research. When I heard that study, this research. When I heard that study, I wanted to figure out, well, how do we I wanted to figure out, well, how do we I wanted to figure out, well, how do we do that for ourselves? Because what do that for ourselves? Because what do that for ourselves? Because what change if we think about it? Why would change if we think about it? Why would change if we think about it? Why would that happen? same rat bodies. Nothing that happen? same rat bodies. Nothing that happen? same rat bodies. Nothing changed physically. They didn't suddenly changed physically. They didn't suddenly changed physically. They didn't suddenly get stronger. They had it in them all get stronger. They had it in them all get stronger. They had it in them all along. along. along. >> The circumstances, the environment, as >> The circumstances, the environment, as >> The circumstances, the environment, as much as we complain about what's much as we complain about what's much as we complain about what's happening outside us, the circumstances happening outside us, the circumstances happening outside us, the circumstances in that experiment had not changed. Same in that experiment had not changed. Same in that experiment had not changed. Same cylinder of water. cylinder of water. cylinder of water. >> We can't ask the rats obviously, but we >> We can't ask the rats obviously, but we >> We can't ask the rats obviously, but we think the only remaining variable was think the only remaining variable was think the only remaining variable was that something changed in their minds. that something changed in their minds. that something changed in their minds. >> That suddenly with salvation being >> That suddenly with salvation being >> That suddenly with salvation being possible, with hope as a possibility, possible, with hope as a possibility, possible, with hope as a possibility, they persisted. became more motivated to they persisted. became more motivated to they persisted. became more motivated to keep swimming for 60 hours until they keep swimming for 60 hours until they keep swimming for 60 hours until they reached their actual limit. Now, I think reached their actual limit. Now, I think reached their actual limit. Now, I think what's so fascinating about this study what's so fascinating about this study what's so fascinating about this study and what we should all remember from it and what we should all remember from it and what we should all remember from it is that that ability to swim for 60 is that that ability to swim for 60 is that that ability to swim for 60 hours was always within them. hours was always within them. hours was always within them. >> It wasn't some magically imported power. >> It wasn't some magically imported power. >> It wasn't some magically imported power. It was there. They just didn't believe It was there. They just didn't believe It was there. They just didn't believe there was a reason to persist. And so, there was a reason to persist. And so, there was a reason to persist. And so, that made me think in my own life, where that made me think in my own life, where that made me think in my own life, where am I quitting at 15 minutes? Where am I am I quitting at 15 minutes? Where am I am I quitting at 15 minutes? Where am I giving up on things that I could giving up on things that I could giving up on things that I could otherwise achieve because I just quit otherwise achieve because I just quit otherwise achieve because I just quit too soon? And so if mo if we know that too soon? And so if mo if we know that too soon? And so if mo if we know that the number one factor of whether you'll the number one factor of whether you'll the number one factor of whether you'll achieve your goals is whether you achieve your goals is whether you achieve your goals is whether you persist, we need to dive deeper and persist, we need to dive deeper and persist, we need to dive deeper and saying well how do I stay motivated? And saying well how do I stay motivated? And saying well how do I stay motivated? And the way we stay motivated is by not the way we stay motivated is by not the way we stay motivated is by not expecting this simplistic model of expecting this simplistic model of expecting this simplistic model of motivation to work for us. We think at motivation to work for us. We think at motivation to work for us. We think at least the way I thought was that least the way I thought was that least the way I thought was that motivation works when I want some kind motivation works when I want some kind motivation works when I want some kind of reward. I want some kind of benefit. of reward. I want some kind of benefit. of reward. I want some kind of benefit. So I do a behavior, right? If I do the So I do a behavior, right? If I do the So I do a behavior, right? If I do the behavior, I get the benefit. Simple as behavior, I get the benefit. Simple as behavior, I get the benefit. Simple as that. That's kind of how classical that. That's kind of how classical that. That's kind of how classical economics teaches us about incentives. economics teaches us about incentives. economics teaches us about incentives. But there's clearly something missing But there's clearly something missing But there's clearly something missing that if it was is easy enough to say, that if it was is easy enough to say, that if it was is easy enough to say, "Well, I want this benefit, so I'll do "Well, I want this benefit, so I'll do "Well, I want this benefit, so I'll do this behavior. I I would if that's all this behavior. I I would if that's all this behavior. I I would if that's all it took, well, then we would all have it took, well, then we would all have it took, well, then we would all have six-pack abs and be multi-millionaires six-pack abs and be multi-millionaires six-pack abs and be multi-millionaires and and be perfectly happy because the and and be perfectly happy because the and and be perfectly happy because the information is out there. We know what information is out there. We know what information is out there. We know what to do, and we know we want it. What's to do, and we know we want it. What's to do, and we know we want it. What's missing, of course, is a belief that if missing, of course, is a belief that if missing, of course, is a belief that if I don't believe I can get that benefit." I don't believe I can get that benefit." I don't believe I can get that benefit." So, for example, uh let's say I have a So, for example, uh let's say I have a So, for example, uh let's say I have a boss who I don't believe has my best boss who I don't believe has my best boss who I don't believe has my best interest at heart. Maybe I don't believe interest at heart. Maybe I don't believe interest at heart. Maybe I don't believe they're going to give me that raise or they're going to give me that raise or they're going to give me that raise or promotion. Am I going to stay motivated promotion. Am I going to stay motivated promotion. Am I going to stay motivated to work for that boss if I don't believe to work for that boss if I don't believe to work for that boss if I don't believe I'm going to get the benefit? No. I'm I'm going to get the benefit? No. I'm I'm going to get the benefit? No. I'm going to slack off. I'm not going to do going to slack off. I'm not going to do going to slack off. I'm not going to do my best work. Conversely, if I don't my best work. Conversely, if I don't my best work. Conversely, if I don't believe in my own ability to sustain believe in my own ability to sustain believe in my own ability to sustain that behavior, maybe I have a limiting that behavior, maybe I have a limiting that behavior, maybe I have a limiting belief that tells me that I'm no good at belief that tells me that I'm no good at belief that tells me that I'm no good at this or this is hard or uh uh I don't this or this is hard or uh uh I don't this or this is hard or uh uh I don't like how this feels and so I'm going to like how this feels and so I'm going to like how this feels and so I'm going to quit if I don't believe in my own quit if I don't believe in my own quit if I don't believe in my own ability to persist. So, motivation is ability to persist. So, motivation is ability to persist. So, motivation is not a straight line. Motivation is a not a straight line. Motivation is a not a straight line. Motivation is a triangle. You have to not only know what triangle. You have to not only know what triangle. You have to not only know what to do, the behavior, not only want the to do, the behavior, not only want the to do, the behavior, not only want the benefit, but you also have to have the benefit, but you also have to have the benefit, but you also have to have the belief that holds it all together. belief that holds it all together. belief that holds it all together. >> How does that apply? Let's say if >> How does that apply? Let's say if >> How does that apply? Let's say if someone someone someone wants to do a marathon, you know, wants to do a marathon, you know, wants to do a marathon, you know, they're a they're a sort of recreational they're a they're a sort of recreational they're a they're a sort of recreational runner and they sign up for a challenge runner and they sign up for a challenge runner and they sign up for a challenge to do a marathon. to do a marathon. to do a marathon. >> How does persistence, motivation, >> How does persistence, motivation, >> How does persistence, motivation, belief, how how does that all play out belief, how how does that all play out belief, how how does that all play out for that individual? for that individual? for that individual? >> So, this is a perfect way to introduce >> So, this is a perfect way to introduce >> So, this is a perfect way to introduce the difference between limiting beliefs the difference between limiting beliefs the difference between limiting beliefs and liberating beliefs. A limiting and liberating beliefs. A limiting and liberating beliefs. A limiting belief is a belief that does two things. belief is a belief that does two things. belief is a belief that does two things. It saps motivation and increases It saps motivation and increases It saps motivation and increases suffering. That's how I define a suffering. That's how I define a suffering. That's how I define a limiting belief. So in this example, if limiting belief. So in this example, if limiting belief. So in this example, if I want to run a marathon, I want to run a marathon, I want to run a marathon, how well would it serve me if I believed how well would it serve me if I believed how well would it serve me if I believed I can't do it, right? What does my I can't do it, right? What does my I can't do it, right? What does my motivation look like? If I'm running, motivation look like? If I'm running, motivation look like? If I'm running, running, and in my head is a little running, and in my head is a little running, and in my head is a little voice that says, "You can't do this. You voice that says, "You can't do this. You voice that says, "You can't do this. You can't do this. You can't do this." I'm can't do this. You can't do this." I'm can't do this. You can't do this." I'm going to quit. My motivation decreases. going to quit. My motivation decreases. going to quit. My motivation decreases. My perception of suffering increases, My perception of suffering increases, My perception of suffering increases, and I stop. So I have a 100% certainty and I stop. So I have a 100% certainty and I stop. So I have a 100% certainty of not achieving my goal. Now if I have of not achieving my goal. Now if I have of not achieving my goal. Now if I have a different story, let's say I have a a different story, let's say I have a a different story, let's say I have a different belief in my head that I different belief in my head that I different belief in my head that I believe that I can persist. I may be believe that I can persist. I may be believe that I can persist. I may be able to do this. Now does that mean it's able to do this. Now does that mean it's able to do this. Now does that mean it's a fact? No. Lots of people don't finish a fact? No. Lots of people don't finish a fact? No. Lots of people don't finish marathons. But who are you going to bet marathons. But who are you going to bet marathons. But who are you going to bet on? If you've got two people, one has on? If you've got two people, one has on? If you've got two people, one has the belief I can't do this. One has the the belief I can't do this. One has the the belief I can't do this. One has the belief I might be able to do this or I'm belief I might be able to do this or I'm belief I might be able to do this or I'm going to do it as long as I can. going to do it as long as I can. going to do it as long as I can. >> Who's more likely to achieve the goal? >> Who's more likely to achieve the goal? >> Who's more likely to achieve the goal? Because if there's one thing I want Because if there's one thing I want Because if there's one thing I want people to know, whether or not you read people to know, whether or not you read people to know, whether or not you read the book, what I learned over the six the book, what I learned over the six the book, what I learned over the six years of research is this, that beliefs years of research is this, that beliefs years of research is this, that beliefs are tools, not truths. Beliefs are are tools, not truths. Beliefs are are tools, not truths. Beliefs are tools, not truths. There are certain tools, not truths. There are certain tools, not truths. There are certain beliefs that serve us and there are beliefs that serve us and there are beliefs that serve us and there are certain beliefs that hurt us. Beliefs certain beliefs that hurt us. Beliefs certain beliefs that hurt us. Beliefs that increase our motivation and beliefs that increase our motivation and beliefs that increase our motivation and beliefs that decrease our motivation. Beliefs that decrease our motivation. Beliefs that decrease our motivation. Beliefs that increase our suffering or decrease that increase our suffering or decrease that increase our suffering or decrease our suffering. Whether or not they are our suffering. Whether or not they are our suffering. Whether or not they are facts, that's the most important thing. facts, that's the most important thing. facts, that's the most important thing. So many of our personal, interpersonal, So many of our personal, interpersonal, So many of our personal, interpersonal, geopolitical conflicts are with occur geopolitical conflicts are with occur geopolitical conflicts are with occur because of this misidentification of because of this misidentification of because of this misidentification of what is a fact and what's just a belief. what is a fact and what's just a belief. what is a fact and what's just a belief. So the the most important takeaway is So the the most important takeaway is So the the most important takeaway is that you can choose your beliefs. that you can choose your beliefs. that you can choose your beliefs. >> I am so excited inside at the moment. I >> I am so excited inside at the moment. I >> I am so excited inside at the moment. I I I've got about 10 jumping off points I I've got about 10 jumping off points I I've got about 10 jumping off points and I can't choose where to go next. Let and I can't choose where to go next. Let and I can't choose where to go next. Let me just pick up on a phrase you just me just pick up on a phrase you just me just pick up on a phrase you just used. You said if you're someone who's used. You said if you're someone who's used. You said if you're someone who's running a marathon and you don't believe running a marathon and you don't believe running a marathon and you don't believe you can do it, your perception of you can do it, your perception of you can do it, your perception of suffering will change. suffering will change. suffering will change. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Perception of suffering. There's so much >> Perception of suffering. There's so much >> Perception of suffering. There's so much in those three words. It it kind of in those three words. It it kind of in those three words. It it kind of says, says, says, you know, suffering is subjective, isn't you know, suffering is subjective, isn't you know, suffering is subjective, isn't it? Right. It's your perception. It's it? Right. It's your perception. It's it? Right. It's your perception. It's not like you either suffer or you don't. not like you either suffer or you don't. not like you either suffer or you don't. your beliefs and your views around the your beliefs and your views around the your beliefs and your views around the world can influence world can influence world can influence whether you suffer or not. whether you suffer or not. whether you suffer or not. >> That's exactly right. And so this is >> That's exactly right. And so this is >> That's exactly right. And so this is again one of these concepts that blew my again one of these concepts that blew my again one of these concepts that blew my mind as I did the research that pain is mind as I did the research that pain is mind as I did the research that pain is not suffering. Those are two separate not suffering. Those are two separate not suffering. Those are two separate concepts. Why? Because as I mentioned concepts. Why? Because as I mentioned concepts. Why? Because as I mentioned earlier, the brain doesn't see reality earlier, the brain doesn't see reality earlier, the brain doesn't see reality clearly. The brain doesn't feel reality clearly. The brain doesn't feel reality clearly. The brain doesn't feel reality clearly either. That our perception of clearly either. That our perception of clearly either. That our perception of suffering is also through that tiny suffering is also through that tiny suffering is also through that tiny pinhole of attention. And so we can pinhole of attention. And so we can pinhole of attention. And so we can change our perception of suffering based change our perception of suffering based change our perception of suffering based on where we are focusing our attention. on where we are focusing our attention. on where we are focusing our attention. Let me give you an example that Let me give you an example that Let me give you an example that absolutely blew my mind and I would not absolutely blew my mind and I would not absolutely blew my mind and I would not believe it unless I saw it with my own believe it unless I saw it with my own believe it unless I saw it with my own eyes. Right? So and I I I've seen this. eyes. Right? So and I I I've seen this. eyes. Right? So and I I I've seen this. >> Daniel Gistler is a guy who is the most >> Daniel Gistler is a guy who is the most >> Daniel Gistler is a guy who is the most analytical person I've ever met. He's a analytical person I've ever met. He's a analytical person I've ever met. He's a former commodities trader, definitely a former commodities trader, definitely a former commodities trader, definitely a numbers person. Uh doesn't believe in numbers person. Uh doesn't believe in numbers person. Uh doesn't believe in anything so-called woo woo or spiritual. anything so-called woo woo or spiritual. anything so-called woo woo or spiritual. He's a very cut and dry black and white He's a very cut and dry black and white He's a very cut and dry black and white kind of guy. in his early 50s, he has kind of guy. in his early 50s, he has kind of guy. in his early 50s, he has this freak accident and his he shatters this freak accident and his he shatters this freak accident and his he shatters his ankle and in the course of this his ankle and in the course of this his ankle and in the course of this operation, he has to have pins put into operation, he has to have pins put into operation, he has to have pins put into his into his bones. A few years later, his into his bones. A few years later, his into his bones. A few years later, it's time for these pins to be removed. it's time for these pins to be removed. it's time for these pins to be removed. And in the course of that time, he And in the course of that time, he And in the course of that time, he prepares for this surgery by learning a prepares for this surgery by learning a prepares for this surgery by learning a technique called hypnosed. technique called hypnosed. technique called hypnosed. Now, for me, when I heard hypnosed, my Now, for me, when I heard hypnosed, my Now, for me, when I heard hypnosed, my scientific mind kind of had alarm bells scientific mind kind of had alarm bells scientific mind kind of had alarm bells going off that I was very, very going off that I was very, very going off that I was very, very skeptical. Turns out that Daniel was skeptical. Turns out that Daniel was skeptical. Turns out that Daniel was able to go through a 55minute procedure able to go through a 55minute procedure able to go through a 55minute procedure where scapel was cutting into flesh where scapel was cutting into flesh where scapel was cutting into flesh where metal screws were were wretched where metal screws were were wretched where metal screws were were wretched from bone and he did this 100% from bone and he did this 100% from bone and he did this 100% consciously. He did this under consciously. He did this under consciously. He did this under hypnosidation where he says he felt the hypnosidation where he says he felt the hypnosidation where he says he felt the sensations he felt the signal the data sensations he felt the signal the data sensations he felt the signal the data going into his brain about what was going into his brain about what was going into his brain about what was going on but he wasn't suffering from going on but he wasn't suffering from going on but he wasn't suffering from it. M it. M it. M >> and the most remarkable part about this >> and the most remarkable part about this >> and the most remarkable part about this example and again I've seen the surgery example and again I've seen the surgery example and again I've seen the surgery I've seen the video is that it's not I've seen the video is that it's not I've seen the video is that it's not that remarkable that in fact tens of that remarkable that in fact tens of that remarkable that in fact tens of thousands of people go through similar thousands of people go through similar thousands of people go through similar surgeries in Switzerland in Italy in surgeries in Switzerland in Italy in surgeries in Switzerland in Italy in France it's not that uncommon this France it's not that uncommon this France it's not that uncommon this technique of hypnosia technique of hypnosia technique of hypnosia >> so they're not using anesthetic >> so they're not using anesthetic >> so they're not using anesthetic >> zero anesthet no general anesthesia no >> zero anesthet no general anesthesia no >> zero anesthet no general anesthesia no local anesthesia zero nothing there is local anesthesia zero nothing there is local anesthesia zero nothing there is no anesthesiologist in the room no anesthesiologist in the room no anesthesiologist in the room >> I mean if we think just from a purely >> I mean if we think just from a purely >> I mean if we think just from a purely medical side effect profile I mean not medical side effect profile I mean not medical side effect profile I mean not needing to use anesthetic sake a in needing to use anesthetic sake a in needing to use anesthetic sake a in terms of risks um side effects terms of risks um side effects terms of risks um side effects afterwards all kinds of things that is a afterwards all kinds of things that is a afterwards all kinds of things that is a phenomenal thing to reduce risk before phenomenal thing to reduce risk before phenomenal thing to reduce risk before surgery. surgery. surgery. >> That's exactly right. That recovery time >> That's exactly right. That recovery time >> That's exactly right. That recovery time in improves for people who don't go in improves for people who don't go in improves for people who don't go under anesthesia. That's exactly right. under anesthesia. That's exactly right. under anesthesia. That's exactly right. >> But it also does something >> But it also does something >> But it also does something really really powerful which is really really powerful which is really really powerful which is train that individual with a skill that train that individual with a skill that train that individual with a skill that they previously didn't know about. And they previously didn't know about. And they previously didn't know about. And as you say, I think in the in the final as you say, I think in the in the final as you say, I think in the in the final few chapters of your book, pills don't few chapters of your book, pills don't few chapters of your book, pills don't build skills, right? So, they may do build skills, right? So, they may do build skills, right? So, they may do certain things, but there's also certain certain things, but there's also certain certain things, but there's also certain things that they can't do and won't do. things that they can't do and won't do. things that they can't do and won't do. [clears throat] And some of those things [clears throat] And some of those things [clears throat] And some of those things that you learn by going through that you learn by going through that you learn by going through difficult journeys difficult journeys difficult journeys >> that then help you on other different >> that then help you on other different >> that then help you on other different journeys, you know, beyond the thing journeys, you know, beyond the thing journeys, you know, beyond the thing that you learned the skill in. that you learned the skill in. that you learned the skill in. >> That's right. And and that's exactly >> That's right. And and that's exactly >> That's right. And and that's exactly what the rats taught us, isn't it? what the rats taught us, isn't it? what the rats taught us, isn't it? >> Yeah. that that ability to swim for 60 >> Yeah. that that ability to swim for 60 >> Yeah. that that ability to swim for 60 hours was always in them. We also have hours was always in them. We also have hours was always in them. We also have these amazing powers that have never these amazing powers that have never these amazing powers that have never been unlocked because we've never even been unlocked because we've never even been unlocked because we've never even conceived that they exist. We can't even conceived that they exist. We can't even conceived that they exist. We can't even imagine that they're there just like imagine that they're there just like imagine that they're there just like hypnosed. Now, am I arguing for people hypnosed. Now, am I arguing for people hypnosed. Now, am I arguing for people to go get hypnosed? Not really. I don't to go get hypnosed? Not really. I don't to go get hypnosed? Not really. I don't think I would do it either. At least I'm think I would do it either. At least I'm think I would do it either. At least I'm not ready to do it. But what this story not ready to do it. But what this story not ready to do it. But what this story tells us is that these powers are there. tells us is that these powers are there. tells us is that these powers are there. And so if a if if tens of thousands of And so if a if if tens of thousands of And so if a if if tens of thousands of people have undergone surgery with zero people have undergone surgery with zero people have undergone surgery with zero anesthesia, what does that mean about anesthesia, what does that mean about anesthesia, what does that mean about our day-to-day struggles, right? What our day-to-day struggles, right? What our day-to-day struggles, right? What what we talked earlier about the number what we talked earlier about the number what we talked earlier about the number one criteria of whether you will achieve one criteria of whether you will achieve one criteria of whether you will achieve your goals is whether you quit. What's your goals is whether you quit. What's your goals is whether you quit. What's the number one reason people quit? It's the number one reason people quit? It's the number one reason people quit? It's hard. hard. hard. >> This hurts. I don't want to go to the >> This hurts. I don't want to go to the >> This hurts. I don't want to go to the gym. I don't feel like doing this gym. I don't feel like doing this gym. I don't feel like doing this project. This is too difficult. Pain. I project. This is too difficult. Pain. I project. This is too difficult. Pain. I don't want to repair this relationship. don't want to repair this relationship. don't want to repair this relationship. It feels icky. It's hard. When you It feels icky. It's hard. When you It feels icky. It's hard. When you realize the truth that pain and realize the truth that pain and realize the truth that pain and suffering are two separate things that suffering are two separate things that suffering are two separate things that you can disconnect the two that pain is you can disconnect the two that pain is you can disconnect the two that pain is just signal just information it's all it just signal just information it's all it just signal just information it's all it is just data suffering is the is just data suffering is the is just data suffering is the interpretation of that data. interpretation of that data. interpretation of that data. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> When you realize that you free your full >> When you realize that you free your full >> When you realize that you free your full potential. There are things that you you potential. There are things that you you potential. There are things that you you you couldn't imagine you are capable of you couldn't imagine you are capable of you couldn't imagine you are capable of doing that are in your power that you doing that are in your power that you doing that are in your power that you thought were impossible. Now just like thought were impossible. Now just like thought were impossible. Now just like Daniel's surgery going under surgery Daniel's surgery going under surgery Daniel's surgery going under surgery with zero anesthesia. What sounds with zero anesthesia. What sounds with zero anesthesia. What sounds impossible becomes reality. impossible becomes reality. impossible becomes reality. >> Yeah. Did you hear near about I think >> Yeah. Did you hear near about I think >> Yeah. Did you hear near about I think this about six weeks ago now. There was this about six weeks ago now. There was this about six weeks ago now. There was a story from Australia where a family a a story from Australia where a family a a story from Australia where a family a mom and three kids were out just playing mom and three kids were out just playing mom and three kids were out just playing at the beach. They were just going for at the beach. They were just going for at the beach. They were just going for an afternoon kayak and the wind blew an afternoon kayak and the wind blew an afternoon kayak and the wind blew them out them out them out >> and they were quite far from shore. And >> and they were quite far from shore. And >> and they were quite far from shore. And I think from recollection a 10year-old I think from recollection a 10year-old I think from recollection a 10year-old boy boy boy they decided as a family the mom was they decided as a family the mom was they decided as a family the mom was going to stay with the two younger going to stay with the two younger going to stay with the two younger siblings. I mean they were going to die siblings. I mean they were going to die siblings. I mean they were going to die basically. They were stuck. basically. They were stuck. basically. They were stuck. >> And so the 10year-old boy went off to >> And so the 10year-old boy went off to >> And so the 10year-old boy went off to try and get help try and get help try and get help >> but he had to swim I think for 4 hours >> but he had to swim I think for 4 hours >> but he had to swim I think for 4 hours >> against [clears throat] Curran. I think >> against [clears throat] Curran. I think >> against [clears throat] Curran. I think it was 2 and a half miles. Very very it was 2 and a half miles. Very very it was 2 and a half miles. Very very very difficult to do. I think he started very difficult to do. I think he started very difficult to do. I think he started on the kayak and then water came in so on the kayak and then water came in so on the kayak and then water came in so we had to discard the kayak we had to discard the kayak we had to discard the kayak >> and he finally did get to shore. He did >> and he finally did get to shore. He did >> and he finally did get to shore. He did manage to phone for help and then I manage to phone for help and then I manage to phone for help and then I think he collapsed. think he collapsed. think he collapsed. >> Everyone [clears throat] was safe, >> Everyone [clears throat] was safe, >> Everyone [clears throat] was safe, right? But right? But right? But >> I was thinking about that story last >> I was thinking about that story last >> I was thinking about that story last night in the context of what you're night in the context of what you're night in the context of what you're saying about perseverance. saying about perseverance. saying about perseverance. >> And I think about that through the lens >> And I think about that through the lens >> And I think about that through the lens of, you know, both of us of, you know, both of us of, you know, both of us >> are parents. M >> are parents. M >> are parents. M >> surely as a parent one of the most >> surely as a parent one of the most >> surely as a parent one of the most important things I can give to my important things I can give to my important things I can give to my children or try and give to my children children or try and give to my children children or try and give to my children is this idea that you can overcome is this idea that you can overcome is this idea that you can overcome things you can persist don't give up at things you can persist don't give up at things you can persist don't give up at the first hurdle the first hurdle the first hurdle >> and I'm guessing that kid must have >> and I'm guessing that kid must have >> and I'm guessing that kid must have picked up that idea picked up that idea picked up that idea or could you argue look this was a or could you argue look this was a or could you argue look this was a life-threatening situation he knew if he life-threatening situation he knew if he life-threatening situation he knew if he didn't get to shore he was going to be didn't get to shore he was going to be didn't get to shore he was going to be dead and his mom and his two siblings dead and his mom and his two siblings dead and his mom and his two siblings were going to be dead as Right. So, it were going to be dead as Right. So, it were going to be dead as Right. So, it has a happy ending, but I kind of feel has a happy ending, but I kind of feel has a happy ending, but I kind of feel it speaks to what you said about the it speaks to what you said about the it speaks to what you said about the rats. It speaks to what you just said rats. It speaks to what you just said rats. It speaks to what you just said about perseverance. about perseverance. about perseverance. >> So, there there's a complete 180 >> So, there there's a complete 180 >> So, there there's a complete 180 reversal that's happened recently in the reversal that's happened recently in the reversal that's happened recently in the psychology community around a very psychology community around a very psychology community around a very important theory that relates to this. important theory that relates to this. important theory that relates to this. So, there we used to believe it used to So, there we used to believe it used to So, there we used to believe it used to be gospel in the psychology community. be gospel in the psychology community. be gospel in the psychology community. Uh this concept of what's called learned Uh this concept of what's called learned Uh this concept of what's called learned helplessness. The researchers Seligman helplessness. The researchers Seligman helplessness. The researchers Seligman and Meyer learned helplessness was and Meyer learned helplessness was and Meyer learned helplessness was >> accepted everywhere. It was it was even, >> accepted everywhere. It was it was even, >> accepted everywhere. It was it was even, you know, in mainstream press. We all you know, in mainstream press. We all you know, in mainstream press. We all agreed that we learn to be helpless, agreed that we learn to be helpless, agreed that we learn to be helpless, that we're kind of born hopeful, and that we're kind of born hopeful, and that we're kind of born hopeful, and then we learn uh over time as we're then we learn uh over time as we're then we learn uh over time as we're beaten down by society that that that beaten down by society that that that beaten down by society that that that that we're uh we learn to give up. And a that we're uh we learn to give up. And a that we're uh we learn to give up. And a few years ago, Seligman and Meer, the few years ago, Seligman and Meer, the few years ago, Seligman and Meer, the people who who coined learned people who who coined learned people who who coined learned helplessness, helplessness, helplessness, realized that they had gotten it not realized that they had gotten it not realized that they had gotten it not only wrong, but 180 degrees backwards. only wrong, but 180 degrees backwards. only wrong, but 180 degrees backwards. The exact opposite of what they thought The exact opposite of what they thought The exact opposite of what they thought when they looked at the data. That in when they looked at the data. That in when they looked at the data. That in fact, we do not learn helplessness. fact, we do not learn helplessness. fact, we do not learn helplessness. Helplessness is our default state. Helplessness is our default state. Helplessness is our default state. That when you think about it, a baby is That when you think about it, a baby is That when you think about it, a baby is born completely helpless. And what we born completely helpless. And what we born completely helpless. And what we have to learn as we grow up is we learn have to learn as we grow up is we learn have to learn as we grow up is we learn hope. We don't learn helplessness. We hope. We don't learn helplessness. We hope. We don't learn helplessness. We learn hope. learn hope. learn hope. >> So I'm guessing that somewhere in this >> So I'm guessing that somewhere in this >> So I'm guessing that somewhere in this boy's background boy's background boy's background >> was this sense of agency, the sense that >> was this sense of agency, the sense that >> was this sense of agency, the sense that they can do something about this they can do something about this they can do something about this problem. That's how they actually problem. That's how they actually problem. That's how they actually discovered in the Seligman and Meyer discovered in the Seligman and Meyer discovered in the Seligman and Meyer study where they got wrong because some study where they got wrong because some study where they got wrong because some of the the subjects in the experiment of the the subjects in the experiment of the the subjects in the experiment never learned helplessness ever. they never learned helplessness ever. they never learned helplessness ever. they always stayed persistent. And it tends always stayed persistent. And it tends always stayed persistent. And it tends to be because there's something in your to be because there's something in your to be because there's something in your background that told you that background that told you that background that told you that persistence pays. persistence pays. persistence pays. One of the downsides or potential One of the downsides or potential One of the downsides or potential downsides of having that downsides of having that downsides of having that empowering I can do belief mindset. If empowering I can do belief mindset. If empowering I can do belief mindset. If we go back to the marathon example as as we go back to the marathon example as as we go back to the marathon example as as a way of looking at this, a way of looking at this, a way of looking at this, >> of course you want to go into a marathon >> of course you want to go into a marathon >> of course you want to go into a marathon with a I can do attitude. with a I can do attitude. with a I can do attitude. But of course, anything taken to an But of course, anything taken to an But of course, anything taken to an extreme can be problematic, right? Let's extreme can be problematic, right? Let's extreme can be problematic, right? Let's say your say your say your >> right hammy starts hurting at mile five >> right hammy starts hurting at mile five >> right hammy starts hurting at mile five >> and you have this stubborn I can do. >> and you have this stubborn I can do. >> and you have this stubborn I can do. Let's let's take to the David Gogggins Let's let's take to the David Gogggins Let's let's take to the David Gogggins mentality for example. You know, mentality for example. You know, mentality for example. You know, >> David Gogggins is a human embodiment of >> David Gogggins is a human embodiment of >> David Gogggins is a human embodiment of one of those rats in the study. Right. one of those rats in the study. Right. one of those rats in the study. Right. >> Exactly. He he won't stop. He will just >> Exactly. He he won't stop. He will just >> Exactly. He he won't stop. He will just persevere. But you can injure yourself persevere. But you can injure yourself persevere. But you can injure yourself as well through that perseverance. So, as well through that perseverance. So, as well through that perseverance. So, of course, the 10-year-old boy trying to of course, the 10-year-old boy trying to of course, the 10-year-old boy trying to save his life and his family's life, he save his life and his family's life, he save his life and his family's life, he doesn't care if he gets injured, right? doesn't care if he gets injured, right? doesn't care if he gets injured, right? Because it's like, this is Because it's like, this is Because it's like, this is life-threatening, life-threatening, life-threatening, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> But if you're running a recreational >> But if you're running a recreational >> But if you're running a recreational marathon, and we see so many marathon marathon, and we see so many marathon marathon, and we see so many marathon runners doing this, they push past pain. runners doing this, they push past pain. runners doing this, they push past pain. They have their identity built up around They have their identity built up around They have their identity built up around completing this marathon. And I know completing this marathon. And I know completing this marathon. And I know this from chat to running coaches. There this from chat to running coaches. There this from chat to running coaches. There are quite a lot of people who wreck are quite a lot of people who wreck are quite a lot of people who wreck themselves for good because they have themselves for good because they have themselves for good because they have that mentality. I'm going to complete that mentality. I'm going to complete that mentality. I'm going to complete this marathon no matter what. So, this marathon no matter what. So, this marathon no matter what. So, >> right, >> right, >> right, >> I know that's not what you're saying in >> I know that's not what you're saying in >> I know that's not what you're saying in the book, but can you help us understand the book, but can you help us understand the book, but can you help us understand how that could go too far perhaps? how that could go too far perhaps? how that could go too far perhaps? >> Sure. So, let's put in perspective first >> Sure. So, let's put in perspective first >> Sure. So, let's put in perspective first of all that the people who do that, not of all that the people who do that, not of all that the people who do that, not only are they the tiny minority of only are they the tiny minority of only are they the tiny minority of people who run marathons, they are the people who run marathons, they are the people who run marathons, they are the infotesimal number of people in the infotesimal number of people in the infotesimal number of people in the entire population. What happens with entire population. What happens with entire population. What happens with those examples is that the rest of us those examples is that the rest of us those examples is that the rest of us think, well, I better not run a think, well, I better not run a think, well, I better not run a marathon. [laughter] marathon. [laughter] marathon. [laughter] >> That's a good point, >> That's a good point, >> That's a good point, >> right? And so what we talked about >> right? And so what we talked about >> right? And so what we talked about earlier about how we we don't uh learn earlier about how we we don't uh learn earlier about how we we don't uh learn helplessness. We have to learn hope that helplessness. We have to learn hope that helplessness. We have to learn hope that we our default state is helplessness. we our default state is helplessness. we our default state is helplessness. Why do we have this? Why do we even have Why do we have this? Why do we even have Why do we have this? Why do we even have limiting beliefs? What's the point? Why limiting beliefs? What's the point? Why limiting beliefs? What's the point? Why does the brain limit us? Well, the brain does the brain limit us? Well, the brain does the brain limit us? Well, the brain is trying to protect us. Any of our is trying to protect us. Any of our is trying to protect us. Any of our limiting beliefs, this is hard. Uh I'm limiting beliefs, this is hard. Uh I'm limiting beliefs, this is hard. Uh I'm not ready. I'm not good at this. Uh this not ready. I'm not good at this. Uh this not ready. I'm not good at this. Uh this relationship will never change. She's relationship will never change. She's relationship will never change. She's always like that. all these limiting always like that. all these limiting always like that. all these limiting beliefs that we keep repeating to beliefs that we keep repeating to beliefs that we keep repeating to ourselves. Why do we do this? It's ourselves. Why do we do this? It's ourselves. Why do we do this? It's because fundamentally the brain is because fundamentally the brain is because fundamentally the brain is trying to keep you as far away as trying to keep you as far away as trying to keep you as far away as possible from your actual limitations possible from your actual limitations possible from your actual limitations because evolutionarily the brain doesn't because evolutionarily the brain doesn't because evolutionarily the brain doesn't care about your flourishing. Evolution care about your flourishing. Evolution care about your flourishing. Evolution does not care if you're happy and does not care if you're happy and does not care if you're happy and flourishing. That's not ev flourishing. That's not ev flourishing. That's not ev evolutionarily useful. evolutionarily useful. evolutionarily useful. >> What's useful is that you're alive. So >> What's useful is that you're alive. So >> What's useful is that you're alive. So good things are nice. Bad things will good things are nice. Bad things will good things are nice. Bad things will kill you. So your brain is trying to kill you. So your brain is trying to kill you. So your brain is trying to keep you really far away, right? keep you really far away, right? keep you really far away, right? Remember those rats with the 60 hours? Remember those rats with the 60 hours? Remember those rats with the 60 hours? That's when they that's when they That's when they that's when they That's when they that's when they actually were exhausted. But their actually were exhausted. But their actually were exhausted. But their brains were telling them at 15 minutes brains were telling them at 15 minutes brains were telling them at 15 minutes give up, right? Because it was trying to give up, right? Because it was trying to give up, right? Because it was trying to protect them. Ironically enough, they protect them. Ironically enough, they protect them. Ironically enough, they actually died because they gave up too actually died because they gave up too actually died because they gave up too soon. For most of us, most of our lives, soon. For most of us, most of our lives, soon. For most of us, most of our lives, the that's what the brain is trying to the that's what the brain is trying to the that's what the brain is trying to do is to keep us as far away from do is to keep us as far away from do is to keep us as far away from potential harm. Now, there are some potential harm. Now, there are some potential harm. Now, there are some circumstances where we definitely should circumstances where we definitely should circumstances where we definitely should quit, but we quit far too soon. That's quit, but we quit far too soon. That's quit, but we quit far too soon. That's good for us. So, how do we know when do good for us. So, how do we know when do good for us. So, how do we know when do we quit? I think there's three criteria. we quit? I think there's three criteria. we quit? I think there's three criteria. >> Yeah. The three criteria are number one, >> Yeah. The three criteria are number one, >> Yeah. The three criteria are number one, have you met your mile marker? Okay, have you met your mile marker? Okay, have you met your mile marker? Okay, this can be figurative or literally, but this can be figurative or literally, but this can be figurative or literally, but let's say if it's um you know trying on let's say if it's um you know trying on let's say if it's um you know trying on a new belief, trying on a liberating a new belief, trying on a liberating a new belief, trying on a liberating belief, and we could talk about how do belief, and we could talk about how do belief, and we could talk about how do you find your liberating beliefs and you find your liberating beliefs and you find your liberating beliefs and limiting beliefs, but once you have a limiting beliefs, but once you have a limiting beliefs, but once you have a new liberating belief to try on or a new new liberating belief to try on or a new new liberating belief to try on or a new practice, let's say um I'm going to try practice, let's say um I'm going to try practice, let's say um I'm going to try and exercise for 30 days or I'm going to and exercise for 30 days or I'm going to and exercise for 30 days or I'm going to try posting on YouTube or uh Tik Tok or try posting on YouTube or uh Tik Tok or try posting on YouTube or uh Tik Tok or um I'm going to try this new business um I'm going to try this new business um I'm going to try this new business venture or uh try reading this book venture or uh try reading this book venture or uh try reading this book instead of uh watching TV or whatever instead of uh watching TV or whatever instead of uh watching TV or whatever the case might be. this hard thing the case might be. this hard thing the case might be. this hard thing that's that that I'm going to try. You that's that that I'm going to try. You that's that that I'm going to try. You need to have a set number of days that need to have a set number of days that need to have a set number of days that you're going to try it. It doesn't you're going to try it. It doesn't you're going to try it. It doesn't necessarily matter how many days. necessarily matter how many days. necessarily matter how many days. There's a bunch of mythology of like, There's a bunch of mythology of like, There's a bunch of mythology of like, oh, a habit takes 40 four days. That's oh, a habit takes 40 four days. That's oh, a habit takes 40 four days. That's not true. not true. not true. >> It's just setting a mile marker. Why is >> It's just setting a mile marker. Why is >> It's just setting a mile marker. Why is that so important that so important that so important >> that when you say to yourself, I'm not >> that when you say to yourself, I'm not >> that when you say to yourself, I'm not going to quit until I do this for x going to quit until I do this for x going to quit until I do this for x number of days. number of days. number of days. >> You're inoculating yourself from >> You're inoculating yourself from >> You're inoculating yourself from quitting as soon as it gets hard. quitting as soon as it gets hard. quitting as soon as it gets hard. >> So, what you don't want is gh this is >> So, what you don't want is gh this is >> So, what you don't want is gh this is painful. Wh this isn't even worth it. painful. Wh this isn't even worth it. painful. Wh this isn't even worth it. let me stop. You're going to say, "No, let me stop. You're going to say, "No, let me stop. You're going to say, "No, I'm going to go for the next mile and I'm going to go for the next mile and I'm going to go for the next mile and then I'm going to reassess." So whether then I'm going to reassess." So whether then I'm going to reassess." So whether it's a week, a month, a year, whatever it's a week, a month, a year, whatever it's a week, a month, a year, whatever it is, it is, it is, >> get to that mile marker before you quit. >> get to that mile marker before you quit. >> get to that mile marker before you quit. Whatever it is that you said in advance. Whatever it is that you said in advance. Whatever it is that you said in advance. >> The second criteria is, am I still >> The second criteria is, am I still >> The second criteria is, am I still learning? learning? learning? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So if you're failing, failure does not >> So if you're failing, failure does not >> So if you're failing, failure does not mean you should quit. Failure does not mean you should quit. Failure does not mean you should quit. Failure does not mean you should quit. If you are mean you should quit. If you are mean you should quit. If you are learning from failure, persist. Let me learning from failure, persist. Let me learning from failure, persist. Let me give you an example. If I looked into give you an example. If I looked into give you an example. If I looked into the future and I said, "Look, I have the future and I said, "Look, I have the future and I said, "Look, I have traveled into the future and I know for traveled into the future and I know for traveled into the future and I know for a fact that if you fail five more times, a fact that if you fail five more times, a fact that if you fail five more times, the sixth time you're going to succeed. the sixth time you're going to succeed. the sixth time you're going to succeed. You're looking for love. If you go on You're looking for love. If you go on You're looking for love. If you go on five more dates, the sixth one you're five more dates, the sixth one you're five more dates, the sixth one you're going to find the love of your life. If going to find the love of your life. If going to find the love of your life. If you're uh making those sales calls for you're uh making those sales calls for you're uh making those sales calls for your business, uh you're going to get your business, uh you're going to get your business, uh you're going to get nos five times. The sixth time you're nos five times. The sixth time you're nos five times. The sixth time you're going to get a yes. You're going to going to get a yes. You're going to going to get a yes. You're going to close that big deal." What does then close that big deal." What does then close that big deal." What does then that do to your u ability to want to that do to your u ability to want to that do to your u ability to want to fail? You're going to say, "Yeah, great. fail? You're going to say, "Yeah, great. fail? You're going to say, "Yeah, great. Let's fail faster. That's great. So if Let's fail faster. That's great. So if Let's fail faster. That's great. So if you are failing but learning, persist, you are failing but learning, persist, you are failing but learning, persist, keep going. And then the third criteria keep going. And then the third criteria keep going. And then the third criteria is does persistence make a difference? is does persistence make a difference? is does persistence make a difference? There are many goals where persistence There are many goals where persistence There are many goals where persistence doesn't make a difference. doesn't make a difference. doesn't make a difference. >> You have a goal to be happy at work, but >> You have a goal to be happy at work, but >> You have a goal to be happy at work, but your workplace culture is awful. your workplace culture is awful. your workplace culture is awful. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> it's full of toxic people. You are not >> it's full of toxic people. You are not >> it's full of toxic people. You are not going to outlast those people at work. going to outlast those people at work. going to outlast those people at work. >> And so persistence may not make a >> And so persistence may not make a >> And so persistence may not make a difference. Whereas, you know, with difference. Whereas, you know, with difference. Whereas, you know, with writing a book, it feels like you're writing a book, it feels like you're writing a book, it feels like you're just slogging away at the research and I just slogging away at the research and I just slogging away at the research and I don't know how this is going to come don't know how this is going to come don't know how this is going to come together and how do I make this point together and how do I make this point together and how do I make this point and is this really saying what I think and is this really saying what I think and is this really saying what I think it says. But if you persist and keep it says. But if you persist and keep it says. But if you persist and keep going and keep going, you're going to going and keep going, you're going to going and keep going, you're going to get through that plateau. Certainly with get through that plateau. Certainly with get through that plateau. Certainly with exercise, right, when I used to be exercise, right, when I used to be exercise, right, when I used to be clinically obese and for for years clinically obese and for for years clinically obese and for for years sometimes, I wouldn't be making any sometimes, I wouldn't be making any sometimes, I wouldn't be making any progress at all on my on my weight loss progress at all on my on my weight loss progress at all on my on my weight loss goals. But if you persist long enough, goals. But if you persist long enough, goals. But if you persist long enough, you'll break past that plateau. But some you'll break past that plateau. But some you'll break past that plateau. But some things persistence doesn't matter. things persistence doesn't matter. things persistence doesn't matter. You're just banging your head against You're just banging your head against You're just banging your head against the wall. So if you meet those three the wall. So if you meet those three the wall. So if you meet those three criteria, you met your mile marker, criteria, you met your mile marker, criteria, you met your mile marker, you're not learning anymore, and you're not learning anymore, and you're not learning anymore, and persistence doesn't make a difference, persistence doesn't make a difference, persistence doesn't make a difference, then yeah, go ahead and quit. But short then yeah, go ahead and quit. But short then yeah, go ahead and quit. But short of that, you're probably quitting way of that, you're probably quitting way of that, you're probably quitting way too soon. too soon. too soon. >> Yeah. So it's a beautiful framework that >> Yeah. So it's a beautiful framework that >> Yeah. So it's a beautiful framework that I feel we can all apply to anything I feel we can all apply to anything I feel we can all apply to anything we're trying to bring into our life. we're trying to bring into our life. we're trying to bring into our life. This might be a good time to speak about This might be a good time to speak about This might be a good time to speak about your weight loss journey, I think, your weight loss journey, I think, your weight loss journey, I think, because it sort of relates, I think, to because it sort of relates, I think, to because it sort of relates, I think, to what we're talking about. what we're talking about. what we're talking about. Looking at you today, it's very, very Looking at you today, it's very, very Looking at you today, it's very, very hard to believe that at some point in hard to believe that at some point in hard to believe that at some point in your life, you were clinically obese. your life, you were clinically obese. your life, you were clinically obese. >> Yeah, I'll show you the photos. >> Yeah, I'll show you the photos. >> Yeah, I'll show you the photos. >> Can you walk us through that journey and >> Can you walk us through that journey and >> Can you walk us through that journey and why it was belief why it was belief why it was belief >> that changed your outcome? Hey guys, >> that changed your outcome? Hey guys, >> that changed your outcome? Hey guys, just taking a quick break to ask you a just taking a quick break to ask you a just taking a quick break to ask you a small favor. On this show, I'm always small favor. On this show, I'm always small favor. On this show, I'm always looking to improve things. make sure I'm looking to improve things. make sure I'm looking to improve things. make sure I'm booking the most interesting guests, booking the most interesting guests, booking the most interesting guests, having conversations about the right having conversations about the right having conversations about the right topics, and building relationships with topics, and building relationships with topics, and building relationships with the most aligned sponsors. But in order the most aligned sponsors. But in order the most aligned sponsors. But in order to do this, my team and I need to know a to do this, my team and I need to know a to do this, my team and I need to know a little bit more about you. So, we have little bit more about you. So, we have little bit more about you. So, we have created a super short survey that I created a super short survey that I created a super short survey that I would dearly love you to fill out. It would dearly love you to fill out. It would dearly love you to fill out. It will only take you 2 minutes to do so, will only take you 2 minutes to do so, will only take you 2 minutes to do so, and I would really, really appreciate and I would really, really appreciate and I would really, really appreciate it. All you have to do is click the QR it. All you have to do is click the QR it. All you have to do is click the QR code on screen or go to code on screen or go to code on screen or go to drchy.com/servey. Yeah. So for many years I was the I I Yeah. So for many years I was the I I was obese starting at a young age and was obese starting at a young age and was obese starting at a young age and for many years I was a kid at the for many years I was a kid at the for many years I was a kid at the community pool. Well, I grew up in community pool. Well, I grew up in community pool. Well, I grew up in central Florida and so we always hung central Florida and so we always hung central Florida and so we always hung out around the the pool in our out around the the pool in our out around the the pool in our condominium complex. And I was always condominium complex. And I was always condominium complex. And I was always the kid who wore that baggy t-shirt and the kid who wore that baggy t-shirt and the kid who wore that baggy t-shirt and who never went to [clears throat] the who never went to [clears throat] the who never went to [clears throat] the pool without my shirt on cuz I didn't pool without my shirt on cuz I didn't pool without my shirt on cuz I didn't want anybody to see my belly rolls. And want anybody to see my belly rolls. And want anybody to see my belly rolls. And um I started dieting uh pretty early in um I started dieting uh pretty early in um I started dieting uh pretty early in life as a teenager. I was trying to get life as a teenager. I was trying to get life as a teenager. I was trying to get into shape and it didn't work. And every into shape and it didn't work. And every into shape and it didn't work. And every time I would try a new diet, you know, I time I would try a new diet, you know, I time I would try a new diet, you know, I started out with uh lowfat and then I started out with uh lowfat and then I started out with uh lowfat and then I became a vegetarian and then I be became a vegetarian and then I be became a vegetarian and then I be started keto and then it was started keto and then it was started keto and then it was intermittent fasting and every time I intermittent fasting and every time I intermittent fasting and every time I had this zeal of being a new convert and had this zeal of being a new convert and had this zeal of being a new convert and I wanted to tell everybody about this I wanted to tell everybody about this I wanted to tell everybody about this new diet that I had had uh started and new diet that I had had uh started and new diet that I had had uh started and why it was so great and uh and then why it was so great and uh and then why it was so great and uh and then inevitably something would happen and it inevitably something would happen and it inevitably something would happen and it wouldn't work anymore. And why wouldn't wouldn't work anymore. And why wouldn't wouldn't work anymore. And why wouldn't it work? Because I started hearing it work? Because I started hearing it work? Because I started hearing doubts. I would start hearing, oh, you doubts. I would start hearing, oh, you doubts. I would start hearing, oh, you know, a low-fat diet is not so good for know, a low-fat diet is not so good for know, a low-fat diet is not so good for you and vegetarians don't get enough you and vegetarians don't get enough you and vegetarians don't get enough nutrients and keto diets are bad for nutrients and keto diets are bad for nutrients and keto diets are bad for your liver. I would start hearing these your liver. I would start hearing these your liver. I would start hearing these these doubts creep in. And then when I these doubts creep in. And then when I these doubts creep in. And then when I stopped believing in my diet, I stopped stopped believing in my diet, I stopped stopped believing in my diet, I stopped losing weight. losing weight. losing weight. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Because I would fall off the train and >> Because I would fall off the train and >> Because I would fall off the train and say, you know, uh, diets don't work say, you know, uh, diets don't work say, you know, uh, diets don't work anymore and uh, you know, the food anymore and uh, you know, the food anymore and uh, you know, the food industrial complex is out to get me and industrial complex is out to get me and industrial complex is out to get me and it's really hard for a big person to to it's really hard for a big person to to it's really hard for a big person to to to stay in shape and so diets don't to stay in shape and so diets don't to stay in shape and so diets don't work. bring on that pizza and let me work. bring on that pizza and let me work. bring on that pizza and let me chase it with some French fries. And chase it with some French fries. And chase it with some French fries. And what I learned was it wasn't actually a what I learned was it wasn't actually a what I learned was it wasn't actually a specific diet. I mean, we're still specific diet. I mean, we're still specific diet. I mean, we're still debating what is the fact around what debating what is the fact around what debating what is the fact around what diet works. Is there one perfect diet diet works. Is there one perfect diet diet works. Is there one perfect diet for everyone? No, clearly for everyone? No, clearly for everyone? No, clearly >> exactly. >> exactly. >> exactly. >> But what does work over time and the way >> But what does work over time and the way >> But what does work over time and the way I lost weight was persistence was I lost weight was persistence was I lost weight was persistence was getting rid of my limiting beliefs that getting rid of my limiting beliefs that getting rid of my limiting beliefs that I couldn't, that this is not something I couldn't, that this is not something I couldn't, that this is not something that I could ever do, that uh I was that I could ever do, that uh I was that I could ever do, that uh I was never going to change or that it was too never going to change or that it was too never going to change or that it was too hard. Those were all limiting beliefs hard. Those were all limiting beliefs hard. Those were all limiting beliefs because they decreased my motivation and because they decreased my motivation and because they decreased my motivation and increased my suffering. Instead, I increased my suffering. Instead, I increased my suffering. Instead, I started a new liberating belief that started a new liberating belief that started a new liberating belief that through persistence over the long term, through persistence over the long term, through persistence over the long term, I could lose weight. And that's what I I could lose weight. And that's what I I could lose weight. And that's what I started to do. That uh I I used to all started to do. That uh I I used to all started to do. That uh I I used to all the time succumb to what we call in the time succumb to what we call in the time succumb to what we call in psychology the what the hell effect, psychology the what the hell effect, psychology the what the hell effect, right? I'd fall off the diet. I' I'd right? I'd fall off the diet. I' I'd right? I'd fall off the diet. I' I'd have a piece of pizza or something and have a piece of pizza or something and have a piece of pizza or something and say, "Ah, what the hell? Come on. Bring say, "Ah, what the hell? Come on. Bring say, "Ah, what the hell? Come on. Bring on the the chicken wings as well and and on the the chicken wings as well and and on the the chicken wings as well and and and all the other junk food." And I and all the other junk food." And I and all the other junk food." And I don't say that anymore. Now I have a new don't say that anymore. Now I have a new don't say that anymore. Now I have a new liberating belief that's that that says liberating belief that's that that says liberating belief that's that that says I can decide the next thing I put in my I can decide the next thing I put in my I can decide the next thing I put in my mouth, right? That I can get back on mouth, right? That I can get back on mouth, right? That I can get back on track over the long term. This will track over the long term. This will track over the long term. This will work. And I think another thing that work. And I think another thing that work. And I think another thing that that really helped me was I completely that really helped me was I completely that really helped me was I completely misinterpreted uh positive thinking. misinterpreted uh positive thinking. misinterpreted uh positive thinking. that there's a lot of research out there that there's a lot of research out there that there's a lot of research out there that shows that most of us um are being that shows that most of us um are being that shows that most of us um are being hurt by thinking positive and even hurt by thinking positive and even hurt by thinking positive and even manifesting and vision boarding. We're manifesting and vision boarding. We're manifesting and vision boarding. We're getting it completely wrong. That in getting it completely wrong. That in getting it completely wrong. That in fact it's actively harmful. And here's fact it's actively harmful. And here's fact it's actively harmful. And here's why. This is the work of Gabriel Oten why. This is the work of Gabriel Oten why. This is the work of Gabriel Oten where she connected people to blood where she connected people to blood where she connected people to blood pressure monitors as they were doing a pressure monitors as they were doing a pressure monitors as they were doing a visioning exercise, right? They were visioning exercise, right? They were visioning exercise, right? They were manifesting the future they wanted. They manifesting the future they wanted. They manifesting the future they wanted. They were picturing their beach body. They were picturing their beach body. They were picturing their beach body. They were picturing the love of their life. were picturing the love of their life. were picturing the love of their life. They were picturing a a a huge mansion They were picturing a a a huge mansion They were picturing a a a huge mansion and a Lamborghini out in the driveway. and a Lamborghini out in the driveway. and a Lamborghini out in the driveway. All the things that you're supposed to All the things that you're supposed to All the things that you're supposed to manifest, you know, in your life. And manifest, you know, in your life. And manifest, you know, in your life. And she found that when they did that, their she found that when they did that, their she found that when they did that, their blood pressure dropped. They became more blood pressure dropped. They became more blood pressure dropped. They became more relaxed. And most importantly, they relaxed. And most importantly, they relaxed. And most importantly, they became less likely to go out there and became less likely to go out there and became less likely to go out there and do the things that would get them their do the things that would get them their do the things that would get them their end results. She did this study on end results. She did this study on end results. She did this study on students who were envisioning getting an students who were envisioning getting an students who were envisioning getting an A on their exam. And those very same A on their exam. And those very same A on their exam. And those very same students who are manifesting an A on the students who are manifesting an A on the students who are manifesting an A on the exam studied less than the students who exam studied less than the students who exam studied less than the students who didn't do the visioning exercise. But didn't do the visioning exercise. But didn't do the visioning exercise. But people say, "Yeah, but visioning works, people say, "Yeah, but visioning works, people say, "Yeah, but visioning works, right? Athletes, they they vision right? Athletes, they they vision right? Athletes, they they vision things. Isn't that what athletes do?" things. Isn't that what athletes do?" things. Isn't that what athletes do?" Yes, but what do athletes vision? Yes, but what do athletes vision? Yes, but what do athletes vision? Athletes don't do a visioning exercise Athletes don't do a visioning exercise Athletes don't do a visioning exercise where they get the trophy or the medal. where they get the trophy or the medal. where they get the trophy or the medal. They envision the obstacles in their way They envision the obstacles in their way They envision the obstacles in their way and specifically how they will react and specifically how they will react and specifically how they will react physically and psychologically to those physically and psychologically to those physically and psychologically to those barriers. That's what's missing. So, barriers. That's what's missing. So, barriers. That's what's missing. So, this is called mental contrasting. this is called mental contrasting. this is called mental contrasting. You're contrasting the outcomes you want You're contrasting the outcomes you want You're contrasting the outcomes you want with how you will feel about the with how you will feel about the with how you will feel about the obstacles in your way. So, one of the obstacles in your way. So, one of the obstacles in your way. So, one of the things that helped me most in my weight things that helped me most in my weight things that helped me most in my weight loss journey loss journey loss journey >> was not, oh, I'm going to sit here and >> was not, oh, I'm going to sit here and >> was not, oh, I'm going to sit here and envision that I have a beach body. That envision that I have a beach body. That envision that I have a beach body. That wasn't helpful. That actually backfired wasn't helpful. That actually backfired wasn't helpful. That actually backfired cuz what happened when it wouldn't work. cuz what happened when it wouldn't work. cuz what happened when it wouldn't work. Well, then am I not envisioning hard Well, then am I not envisioning hard Well, then am I not envisioning hard enough? Am I messed up? Am I broken? And enough? Am I messed up? Am I broken? And enough? Am I messed up? Am I broken? And so, I would start ruminating on how I so, I would start ruminating on how I so, I would start ruminating on how I couldn't do it because there was couldn't do it because there was couldn't do it because there was something wrong with me. when really something wrong with me. when really something wrong with me. when really what I should have done and what what I what I should have done and what what I what I should have done and what what I eventually did start doing eventually did start doing eventually did start doing >> was visioning what I will do when I >> was visioning what I will do when I >> was visioning what I will do when I encounter the obstacle. encounter the obstacle. encounter the obstacle. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And how do I present how do I um uh make >> And how do I present how do I um uh make >> And how do I present how do I um uh make sure that I'm strong enough to overcome sure that I'm strong enough to overcome sure that I'm strong enough to overcome that obstacle. So here's what I did. I that obstacle. So here's what I did. I that obstacle. So here's what I did. I started envisioning when I go to that started envisioning when I go to that started envisioning when I go to that party and someone offers me that piece party and someone offers me that piece party and someone offers me that piece of chocolate cake that I I don't want to of chocolate cake that I I don't want to of chocolate cake that I I don't want to eat because I I have this goal in mind eat because I I have this goal in mind eat because I I have this goal in mind and that feels uncomfortable. One, I and that feels uncomfortable. One, I and that feels uncomfortable. One, I want the chocolate cake. I desire it. I want the chocolate cake. I desire it. I want the chocolate cake. I desire it. I crave it. And I don't want to tell crave it. And I don't want to tell crave it. And I don't want to tell someone. I don't want to be rude and someone. I don't want to be rude and someone. I don't want to be rude and say, "No thanks. I don't want the say, "No thanks. I don't want the say, "No thanks. I don't want the chocolate cake." How what will I do? chocolate cake." How what will I do? chocolate cake." How what will I do? What will I say when that obstacle What will I say when that obstacle What will I say when that obstacle happens, which it inevitably will. And happens, which it inevitably will. And happens, which it inevitably will. And so that's the right way to to to do so that's the right way to to to do so that's the right way to to to do these visioning exercises is to prepare these visioning exercises is to prepare these visioning exercises is to prepare for the pain. for the pain. for the pain. >> That that is such a great piece of >> That that is such a great piece of >> That that is such a great piece of practical advice, isn't it? Instead of, practical advice, isn't it? Instead of, practical advice, isn't it? Instead of, you know, we're not at new year at the you know, we're not at new year at the you know, we're not at new year at the moment, right? But but but in new year moment, right? But but but in new year moment, right? But but but in new year we, you know, people get carried away. we, you know, people get carried away. we, you know, people get carried away. It's ah, this year I'm going to do this, It's ah, this year I'm going to do this, It's ah, this year I'm going to do this, right? and you just imagine the good. right? and you just imagine the good. right? and you just imagine the good. It's going to go well. I'm going to go It's going to go well. I'm going to go It's going to go well. I'm going to go to the gym three times a week. You don't to the gym three times a week. You don't to the gym three times a week. You don't imagine or I would say most people in my imagine or I would say most people in my imagine or I would say most people in my experience don't imagine experience don't imagine experience don't imagine what happens when you feel tired after what happens when you feel tired after what happens when you feel tired after work and it's raining and you can't be work and it's raining and you can't be work and it's raining and you can't be bothered. bothered. bothered. >> Yeah. How what what tools will you use? >> Yeah. How what what tools will you use? >> Yeah. How what what tools will you use? So, I'll give you an example in my own So, I'll give you an example in my own So, I'll give you an example in my own life. Um when I started writing, I also life. Um when I started writing, I also life. Um when I started writing, I also started my speaking career. And one started my speaking career. And one started my speaking career. And one thing you don't want as a professional thing you don't want as a professional thing you don't want as a professional public speaker is stage fright. And I public speaker is stage fright. And I public speaker is stage fright. And I used to get terrible stage fright. That used to get terrible stage fright. That used to get terrible stage fright. That every time I was about to go on stage, every time I was about to go on stage, every time I was about to go on stage, I'd get the heart palpitations, I get I'd get the heart palpitations, I get I'd get the heart palpitations, I get the sweaty armpits, I get the cotton the sweaty armpits, I get the cotton the sweaty armpits, I get the cotton mouth. And I would interpret those mouth. And I would interpret those mouth. And I would interpret those physiological symptoms, that information physiological symptoms, that information physiological symptoms, that information as suffering. And I would start this as suffering. And I would start this as suffering. And I would start this rumination loop of, you know, if I get rumination loop of, you know, if I get rumination loop of, you know, if I get on stage and I mess up, it's going to be on stage and I mess up, it's going to be on stage and I mess up, it's going to be terrible. People are going to make fun terrible. People are going to make fun terrible. People are going to make fun of me. I'm my career will be over. And of me. I'm my career will be over. And of me. I'm my career will be over. And if I was a real professional public if I was a real professional public if I was a real professional public speaker, I wouldn't have these feelings. speaker, I wouldn't have these feelings. speaker, I wouldn't have these feelings. And so maybe I'm not into this. And and And so maybe I'm not into this. And and And so maybe I'm not into this. And and and I would I would limit myself. A and I would I would limit myself. A and I would I would limit myself. A speaking engagement would come in and I speaking engagement would come in and I speaking engagement would come in and I would say, "No, no. I'm not ready for would say, "No, no. I'm not ready for would say, "No, no. I'm not ready for that. That's that crowd is too big for that. That's that crowd is too big for that. That's that crowd is too big for me. I'm not ready for this." me. I'm not ready for this." me. I'm not ready for this." >> And so I I limited myself. >> And so I I limited myself. >> And so I I limited myself. >> Now, here's what's interesting. I'll >> Now, here's what's interesting. I'll >> Now, here's what's interesting. I'll admit to you right now. I feel the same admit to you right now. I feel the same admit to you right now. I feel the same physiological symptoms. I have the dry physiological symptoms. I have the dry physiological symptoms. I have the dry mouth and that's why I keep sipping mouth and that's why I keep sipping mouth and that's why I keep sipping water and I my heart's beating a million water and I my heart's beating a million water and I my heart's beating a million miles a minute because I know that miles a minute because I know that miles a minute because I know that thousands of people are going to watch thousands of people are going to watch thousands of people are going to watch this this podcast. Hundreds of thousands this this podcast. Hundreds of thousands this this podcast. Hundreds of thousands of people. of people. of people. >> And so I still feel anxiety. I feel the >> And so I still feel anxiety. I feel the >> And so I still feel anxiety. I feel the symptoms of anxiety, symptoms of anxiety, symptoms of anxiety, but I interpret it differently because but I interpret it differently because but I interpret it differently because I've prepared myself psychologically to I've prepared myself psychologically to I've prepared myself psychologically to separate the pain from the suffering. separate the pain from the suffering. separate the pain from the suffering. >> The pain is just signal. It's just >> The pain is just signal. It's just >> The pain is just signal. It's just information. That tiny keyhole of information. That tiny keyhole of information. That tiny keyhole of attention that we talked about earlier, attention that we talked about earlier, attention that we talked about earlier, the signal is still coming in, right? the signal is still coming in, right? the signal is still coming in, right? The signal is still there. The data is The signal is still there. The data is The signal is still there. The data is there, but my interpretation is there, but my interpretation is there, but my interpretation is completely different. So now when I have completely different. So now when I have completely different. So now when I have a big presentation, I still feel those a big presentation, I still feel those a big presentation, I still feel those symptoms, but I tell myself a completely symptoms, but I tell myself a completely symptoms, but I tell myself a completely different belief. The belief now is not different belief. The belief now is not different belief. The belief now is not that I'm not ready and this is too hard that I'm not ready and this is too hard that I'm not ready and this is too hard and this is not going to go well. and this is not going to go well. and this is not going to go well. Instead, I tell myself my heart is Instead, I tell myself my heart is Instead, I tell myself my heart is beating quickly so that my heart can beating quickly so that my heart can beating quickly so that my heart can pump more blood to my brain so my brain pump more blood to my brain so my brain pump more blood to my brain so my brain has more oxygen so I can deliver my best has more oxygen so I can deliver my best has more oxygen so I can deliver my best possible presentation about something I possible presentation about something I possible presentation about something I really care about. Now, you're a doctor. really care about. Now, you're a doctor. really care about. Now, you're a doctor. Is that true? Don't tell me. Actually, Is that true? Don't tell me. Actually, Is that true? Don't tell me. Actually, don't tell me. I don't know if it's don't tell me. I don't know if it's don't tell me. I don't know if it's true. I don't care if it's true because true. I don't care if it's true because true. I don't care if it's true because beliefs are tools not truths. beliefs are tools not truths. beliefs are tools not truths. >> Yeah, this is I I love this as a topic. >> Yeah, this is I I love this as a topic. >> Yeah, this is I I love this as a topic. I mean the first thing I want to say I mean the first thing I want to say I mean the first thing I want to say there n is there n is there n is pain is not suffering pain is not suffering pain is not suffering can also be applied to your chocolate can also be applied to your chocolate can also be applied to your chocolate cake example right so you're trying to cake example right so you're trying to cake example right so you're trying to lose weight you're trying to inadvertise lose weight you're trying to inadvertise lose weight you're trying to inadvertise eat healthily whatever that means to eat healthily whatever that means to eat healthily whatever that means to that individual that individual that individual >> and for you you know that you're going >> and for you you know that you're going >> and for you you know that you're going to get tempted by chocolate cake if you to get tempted by chocolate cake if you to get tempted by chocolate cake if you go out for dinner. go out for dinner. go out for dinner. So even if you have mentally contrasted So even if you have mentally contrasted So even if you have mentally contrasted and you'd prepared what you were going and you'd prepared what you were going and you'd prepared what you were going to say, how you were going to be polite to say, how you were going to be polite to say, how you were going to be polite and decline, you may also succumb and and decline, you may also succumb and and decline, you may also succumb and go, you know what, screw it. Uh, I go, you know what, screw it. Uh, I go, you know what, screw it. Uh, I really want it. You know, I I want that really want it. You know, I I want that really want it. You know, I I want that cake. It looks beautiful if I'm going to cake. It looks beautiful if I'm going to cake. It looks beautiful if I'm going to have it. Now, it's not strictly pain have it. Now, it's not strictly pain have it. Now, it's not strictly pain that, but it's not, I guess, what that, but it's not, I guess, what that, but it's not, I guess, what >> I think it is. I think it is, >> I think it is. I think it is, >> I think it is. I think it is, >> but it's not suffering. The suffering >> but it's not suffering. The suffering >> but it's not suffering. The suffering comes if you then beat yourself up. Go, comes if you then beat yourself up. Go, comes if you then beat yourself up. Go, oh, stupid me that I can never follow oh, stupid me that I can never follow oh, stupid me that I can never follow any plan. What? before that. So when any plan. What? before that. So when any plan. What? before that. So when you're in the restaurant and you want you're in the restaurant and you want you're in the restaurant and you want it. So my interpretation now it used to it. So my interpretation now it used to it. So my interpretation now it used to be I want it. I have to have it. Now I be I want it. I have to have it. Now I be I want it. I have to have it. Now I feel hunger. feel hunger. feel hunger. So So So what's going to happen? Am I going to what's going to happen? Am I going to what's going to happen? Am I going to die? I'm feeling sad. So I'm feeling die? I'm feeling sad. So I'm feeling die? I'm feeling sad. So I'm feeling lonely. I'm feeling bored. I'm feeling lonely. I'm feeling bored. I'm feeling lonely. I'm feeling bored. I'm feeling tired. I'm feeling fatigued. tired. I'm feeling fatigued. tired. I'm feeling fatigued. So it's just information. Lights So it's just information. Lights So it's just information. Lights entering my retinas right now. uh sound entering my retinas right now. uh sound entering my retinas right now. uh sound is entering my ears, uh the ambient is entering my ears, uh the ambient is entering my ears, uh the ambient temperature of the room, all this is temperature of the room, all this is temperature of the room, all this is information. information. information. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> it doesn't mean I have to do anything >> it doesn't mean I have to do anything >> it doesn't mean I have to do anything about it. Just because you feel about it. Just because you feel about it. Just because you feel discomfort doesn't mean you have to act discomfort doesn't mean you have to act discomfort doesn't mean you have to act on it. It's just information. I I am so on it. It's just information. I I am so on it. It's just information. I I am so tempted to go down a deep rabbit hole on tempted to go down a deep rabbit hole on tempted to go down a deep rabbit hole on your previous book in distractival here your previous book in distractival here your previous book in distractival here because it really speaks to us. I don't because it really speaks to us. I don't because it really speaks to us. I don't know what you know it's pain avoidance know what you know it's pain avoidance know what you know it's pain avoidance isn't it that is driving most of our isn't it that is driving most of our isn't it that is driving most of our behaviors but I'm not going to behaviors but I'm not going to behaviors but I'm not going to >> because there's plenty more to cover in >> because there's plenty more to cover in >> because there's plenty more to cover in beyond belief right but but I but I beyond belief right but but I but I beyond belief right but but I but I think it is totally related to what you think it is totally related to what you think it is totally related to what you just spoke about just spoke about just spoke about >> very much so >> very much so >> very much so >> I really want to talk about this idea >> I really want to talk about this idea >> I really want to talk about this idea about choosing beliefs right because I about choosing beliefs right because I about choosing beliefs right because I think think think >> there's something very empowering about >> there's something very empowering about >> there's something very empowering about that and that and that and >> in chapter nine >> in chapter nine >> in chapter nine >> which is the chapter on prayer >> which is the chapter on prayer >> which is the chapter on prayer >> which we're going to get to but all I >> which we're going to get to but all I >> which we're going to get to but all I wanted to to touch on just now is this wanted to to touch on just now is this wanted to to touch on just now is this idea that you used to pray when you were idea that you used to pray when you were idea that you used to pray when you were six. six. six. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> You know, you there was conflicts in the >> You know, you there was conflicts in the >> You know, you there was conflicts in the house over money. You'd go on the house over money. You'd go on the house over money. You'd go on the concrete and you would speak to God, concrete and you would speak to God, concrete and you would speak to God, right? Those early morning conversations right? Those early morning conversations right? Those early morning conversations became your sanctuary. But somewhere became your sanctuary. But somewhere became your sanctuary. But somewhere along the path to adulthood, the along the path to adulthood, the along the path to adulthood, the connection faded. connection faded. connection faded. >> And this is the key point for me. As I >> And this is the key point for me. As I >> And this is the key point for me. As I developed a more rational, developed a more rational, developed a more rational, evidence-based worldview, prayer began evidence-based worldview, prayer began evidence-based worldview, prayer began to feel strange. And basically, this was to feel strange. And basically, this was to feel strange. And basically, this was part of your journey to stop doing it. part of your journey to stop doing it. part of your journey to stop doing it. >> And and I think this really speaks back >> And and I think this really speaks back >> And and I think this really speaks back to what you said before about facts, to what you said before about facts, to what you said before about facts, beliefs, beliefs, beliefs, >> and faith >> and faith >> and faith >> and and faith, right? >> and and faith, right? >> and and faith, right? >> It's, >> It's, >> It's, you know, how much evidence do you you know, how much evidence do you you know, how much evidence do you really need for your beliefs, right? really need for your beliefs, right? really need for your beliefs, right? It's not like you're publishing a It's not like you're publishing a It's not like you're publishing a scientific research paper. It's like scientific research paper. It's like scientific research paper. It's like beliefs, as you say. They do not require beliefs, as you say. They do not require beliefs, as you say. They do not require certainty. They're tools, not truths. certainty. They're tools, not truths. certainty. They're tools, not truths. They're mental models that you write They're mental models that you write They're mental models that you write built through experience, evidence, and built through experience, evidence, and built through experience, evidence, and deliberate construction. deliberate construction. deliberate construction. >> And I wanted to ask you about well, I >> And I wanted to ask you about well, I >> And I wanted to ask you about well, I mean, there's two big beliefs I've mean, there's two big beliefs I've mean, there's two big beliefs I've changed in my life over the past few changed in my life over the past few changed in my life over the past few years that I have chosen to take on years that I have chosen to take on years that I have chosen to take on because they make my life better. M because they make my life better. M because they make my life better. M >> first one is if I was that other person >> first one is if I was that other person >> first one is if I was that other person I'd be acting in exactly the same way as I'd be acting in exactly the same way as I'd be acting in exactly the same way as they are. they are. they are. >> Love it. >> Love it. >> Love it. >> Right. Love it. >> Right. Love it. >> Right. Love it. >> And for people who've not heard me say >> And for people who've not heard me say >> And for people who've not heard me say that before, all I'm saying is if I was that before, all I'm saying is if I was that before, all I'm saying is if I was that other individual and I grew up that other individual and I grew up that other individual and I grew up where they grew up, I had their where they grew up, I had their where they grew up, I had their childhood, I had their parents, I had childhood, I had their parents, I had childhood, I had their parents, I had their bullying experiences, I'd had their bullying experiences, I'd had their bullying experiences, I'd had their media inputs, their media inputs, their media inputs, I would see the world in exactly the I would see the world in exactly the I would see the world in exactly the same way as they do, and I would act in same way as they do, and I would act in same way as they do, and I would act in that way. Right that way. Right that way. Right >> now, someone often will say, "Well, you >> now, someone often will say, "Well, you >> now, someone often will say, "Well, you know, if I was I wouldn't be doing know, if I was I wouldn't be doing know, if I was I wouldn't be doing that." And I'm like, "Okay, sure. You that." And I'm like, "Okay, sure. You that." And I'm like, "Okay, sure. You can believe that. No problem. Is that can believe that. No problem. Is that can believe that. No problem. Is that belief serving you?" I tell you that belief serving you?" I tell you that belief serving you?" I tell you that belief doesn't serve me. But this one belief doesn't serve me. But this one belief doesn't serve me. But this one serves me because it helps me interact serves me because it helps me interact serves me because it helps me interact with the world with compassion and with the world with compassion and with the world with compassion and curiosity. curiosity. curiosity. >> It's the perfect definition >> It's the perfect definition >> It's the perfect definition encapsulation of what eliminating versus encapsulation of what eliminating versus encapsulation of what eliminating versus liberating belief is. It increases your liberating belief is. It increases your liberating belief is. It increases your motivation to interact with that person motivation to interact with that person motivation to interact with that person when you believe, hey, this is similar when you believe, hey, this is similar when you believe, hey, this is similar to a mantra I have, which is we're all to a mantra I have, which is we're all to a mantra I have, which is we're all operating with the tools we have. Very, operating with the tools we have. Very, operating with the tools we have. Very, very similar. Exactly. very similar. Exactly. very similar. Exactly. >> So, it increases my motivation to want >> So, it increases my motivation to want >> So, it increases my motivation to want to understand that person. And boy, does to understand that person. And boy, does to understand that person. And boy, does it decrease my suffering. it decrease my suffering. it decrease my suffering. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> And that's the goal of these liberating >> And that's the goal of these liberating >> And that's the goal of these liberating beliefs. It's not necessarily to prove a beliefs. It's not necessarily to prove a beliefs. It's not necessarily to prove a fact. It's to decrease your suffering fact. It's to decrease your suffering fact. It's to decrease your suffering and increase your motivation. and increase your motivation. and increase your motivation. >> Yeah. And it's like you say, it's it's a >> Yeah. And it's like you say, it's it's a >> Yeah. And it's like you say, it's it's a mental model built through experience, mental model built through experience, mental model built through experience, evidence, and deliberate construction. evidence, and deliberate construction. evidence, and deliberate construction. You can try it on. You can try it on. You can try it on. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> Pop it on for a month. Say, "Do I like >> Pop it on for a month. Say, "Do I like >> Pop it on for a month. Say, "Do I like how I am with this belief, or do I how I am with this belief, or do I how I am with this belief, or do I prefer the one where I where I can judge prefer the one where I where I can judge prefer the one where I where I can judge everyone?" That's right. everyone?" That's right. everyone?" That's right. >> I go, I wouldn't be like them. And I >> I go, I wouldn't be like them. And I >> I go, I wouldn't be like them. And I can't believe they think this way. The can't believe they think this way. The can't believe they think this way. The The other one that I've chosen to adopt, The other one that I've chosen to adopt, The other one that I've chosen to adopt, there's many more, but there's many more, but there's many more, but >> the two that come to mind are life is >> the two that come to mind are life is >> the two that come to mind are life is not happening to me, it's happening for not happening to me, it's happening for not happening to me, it's happening for me. me. me. >> Love that one. Love it. >> Love that one. Love it. >> Love that one. Love it. >> Again, it just helps me. It's like >> Again, it just helps me. It's like >> Again, it just helps me. It's like whenever it it, you know, it's this idea whenever it it, you know, it's this idea whenever it it, you know, it's this idea that every experience really or or most that every experience really or or most that every experience really or or most experiences are are really neutral. experiences are are really neutral. experiences are are really neutral. >> It's the story we put onto them that >> It's the story we put onto them that >> It's the story we put onto them that determines the outcome they have on our determines the outcome they have on our determines the outcome they have on our life. And so if I look at life as life. And so if I look at life as life. And so if I look at life as happening for me not to me it's like oh happening for me not to me it's like oh happening for me not to me it's like oh >> how now is this adverse experience >> how now is this adverse experience >> how now is this adverse experience helping me there is a reason for that helping me there is a reason for that helping me there is a reason for that what am I going to learn here what am I going to learn here what am I going to learn here >> in fact >> in fact >> in fact >> no [laughter] it may not have any >> no [laughter] it may not have any >> no [laughter] it may not have any purpose to it purpose to it purpose to it >> but the fact that you you have used that >> but the fact that you you have used that >> but the fact that you you have used that belief belief belief >> to decrease your suffering and increase >> to decrease your suffering and increase >> to decrease your suffering and increase your motivation to persist it did its your motivation to persist it did its your motivation to persist it did its job that's beautiful job that's beautiful job that's beautiful >> are there any beliefs you have chosen to >> are there any beliefs you have chosen to >> are there any beliefs you have chosen to adopt in your life through the writing adopt in your life through the writing adopt in your life through the writing of this book. of this book. of this book. >> Oh my goodness, where do we start? >> Oh my goodness, where do we start? >> Oh my goodness, where do we start? [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] I mean, I'll tell you, I think the I mean, I'll tell you, I think the I mean, I'll tell you, I think the biggest impact of going deep into the biggest impact of going deep into the biggest impact of going deep into the psychology of beliefs has been in my psychology of beliefs has been in my psychology of beliefs has been in my relationships. Uh, and so can I share relationships. Uh, and so can I share relationships. Uh, and so can I share this with this with this with >> So, it's a difficult story to tell. >> So, it's a difficult story to tell. >> So, it's a difficult story to tell. Every time I tell, even though I've told Every time I tell, even though I've told Every time I tell, even though I've told it a few times now, it's hard to still it a few times now, it's hard to still it a few times now, it's hard to still tell because it's uh well, I'll just tell because it's uh well, I'll just tell because it's uh well, I'll just tell it. Uh, so a few years ago, my mom tell it. Uh, so a few years ago, my mom tell it. Uh, so a few years ago, my mom had her 74th birthday and uh I wanted to had her 74th birthday and uh I wanted to had her 74th birthday and uh I wanted to do something nice for her. So, I wanted do something nice for her. So, I wanted do something nice for her. So, I wanted to send her some flowers. The problem to send her some flowers. The problem to send her some flowers. The problem was I was in Singapore and she was in was I was in Singapore and she was in was I was in Singapore and she was in central Florida where I grew up. And I central Florida where I grew up. And I central Florida where I grew up. And I stayed up very late at night to try and stayed up very late at night to try and stayed up very late at night to try and call the right florist and make sure call the right florist and make sure call the right florist and make sure that they would deliver on time and that that they would deliver on time and that that they would deliver on time and that she'd get the flowers she wanted and all she'd get the flowers she wanted and all she'd get the flowers she wanted and all this uh rigomearroll and spend a bunch this uh rigomearroll and spend a bunch this uh rigomearroll and spend a bunch of money. I went to bed at 1:00 in the of money. I went to bed at 1:00 in the of money. I went to bed at 1:00 in the morning. I patted myself on the back and morning. I patted myself on the back and morning. I patted myself on the back and thought, "N, you're a good son. She's thought, "N, you're a good son. She's thought, "N, you're a good son. She's going to love the flowers. She's going going to love the flowers. She's going going to love the flowers. She's going to call you tomorrow and tell you about to call you tomorrow and tell you about to call you tomorrow and tell you about how great of a son you are." how great of a son you are." how great of a son you are." That didn't happen. What happened That didn't happen. What happened That didn't happen. What happened instead was that I called her the next instead was that I called her the next instead was that I called her the next morning. I said, "Hey, mom. happy morning. I said, "Hey, mom. happy morning. I said, "Hey, mom. happy birthday. Did you get the flowers I birthday. Did you get the flowers I birthday. Did you get the flowers I sent? And she said, "Yes, I did, but sent? And she said, "Yes, I did, but sent? And she said, "Yes, I did, but just so you know, thank you for the just so you know, thank you for the just so you know, thank you for the flowers, but they arrived half dead, and flowers, but they arrived half dead, and flowers, but they arrived half dead, and so don't order from that florist again." so don't order from that florist again." so don't order from that florist again." To which I responded something like, To which I responded something like, To which I responded something like, "Well, that's the last time I buy you "Well, that's the last time I buy you "Well, that's the last time I buy you flowers." And uh that went over about as flowers." And uh that went over about as flowers." And uh that went over about as well as you expect. Not so good. My wife well as you expect. Not so good. My wife well as you expect. Not so good. My wife was on that call with my mom as well, was on that call with my mom as well, was on that call with my mom as well, and she turned to me afterwards and she and she turned to me afterwards and she and she turned to me afterwards and she said, "Would you like to do a turnaround said, "Would you like to do a turnaround said, "Would you like to do a turnaround on this?" on this?" on this?" >> What's a turnaround? Well, my response >> What's a turnaround? Well, my response >> What's a turnaround? Well, my response was, "No, I don't want to do a was, "No, I don't want to do a was, "No, I don't want to do a turnaround to this. I don't need your turnaround to this. I don't need your turnaround to this. I don't need your mumbo jumbo touchyfey hocus pocus. I mumbo jumbo touchyfey hocus pocus. I mumbo jumbo touchyfey hocus pocus. I need to vent. We are told that when need to vent. We are told that when need to vent. We are told that when someone offends you, you have to tell someone offends you, you have to tell someone offends you, you have to tell them how you feel. You can't keep it them how you feel. You can't keep it them how you feel. You can't keep it bottled inside. You have you can't hold bottled inside. You have you can't hold bottled inside. You have you can't hold back your feelings. You have to tell back your feelings. You have to tell back your feelings. You have to tell people how you feel. So, I needed to people how you feel. So, I needed to people how you feel. So, I needed to tell my wife why my mom was being way tell my wife why my mom was being way tell my wife why my mom was being way too judgmental and why I was right and too judgmental and why I was right and too judgmental and why I was right and she was wrong." But thankfully at that she was wrong." But thankfully at that she was wrong." But thankfully at that point I knew enough about what the point I knew enough about what the point I knew enough about what the psychology literature says about venting psychology literature says about venting psychology literature says about venting that venting does nothing but reinforce that venting does nothing but reinforce that venting does nothing but reinforce this effigy that we've built about this effigy that we've built about this effigy that we've built about people that uh just as we don't see people that uh just as we don't see people that uh just as we don't see reality clearly we don't see others as reality clearly we don't see others as reality clearly we don't see others as they are. We see our beliefs about they are. We see our beliefs about they are. We see our beliefs about people. We don't see them as they are. people. We don't see them as they are. people. We don't see them as they are. And especially people we know best. I And especially people we know best. I And especially people we know best. I don't know if you I I have this don't know if you I I have this don't know if you I I have this experience where I have many friends who experience where I have many friends who experience where I have many friends who are the nicest people to me and yet when are the nicest people to me and yet when are the nicest people to me and yet when they introduce me to their family and they introduce me to their family and they introduce me to their family and I'm around their kids and their and I'm around their kids and their and I'm around their kids and their and their spouse for a few minutes, they their spouse for a few minutes, they their spouse for a few minutes, they treat them horribly. They're [laughter] treat them horribly. They're [laughter] treat them horribly. They're [laughter] not nice to the people closest to them not nice to the people closest to them not nice to the people closest to them in their lives. I think many of us, we in their lives. I think many of us, we in their lives. I think many of us, we treat the people who we love most the treat the people who we love most the treat the people who we love most the worst because we know them. We've seen worst because we know them. We've seen worst because we know them. We've seen them. She always does that. That's so them. She always does that. That's so them. She always does that. That's so like her. There she goes again, right? like her. There she goes again, right? like her. There she goes again, right? We have these beliefs that color We have these beliefs that color We have these beliefs that color literally how we see other people. Uh, literally how we see other people. Uh, literally how we see other people. Uh, and it can work both ways, positive and and it can work both ways, positive and and it can work both ways, positive and negative. I remember, you know, the negative. I remember, you know, the negative. I remember, you know, the first time I I I saw my wife across the first time I I I saw my wife across the first time I I I saw my wife across the room, I I thought she was okay. She was room, I I thought she was okay. She was room, I I thought she was okay. She was good-looking. Now I think she's good-looking. Now I think she's good-looking. Now I think she's gorgeous. After 25 years of marriage, gorgeous. After 25 years of marriage, gorgeous. After 25 years of marriage, she's the most beautiful person in the she's the most beautiful person in the she's the most beautiful person in the world. Like physically, I see her world. Like physically, I see her world. Like physically, I see her differently than I ever did before. But differently than I ever did before. But differently than I ever did before. But this can also work in reverse where we this can also work in reverse where we this can also work in reverse where we see we we look for a person's tendency see we we look for a person's tendency see we we look for a person's tendency of there she's doing that thing again of there she's doing that thing again of there she's doing that thing again and there she, you know, so we're we're and there she, you know, so we're we're and there she, you know, so we're we're building our perception of them. So building our perception of them. So building our perception of them. So here's what happened. So instead of me here's what happened. So instead of me here's what happened. So instead of me venting, I didn't vent. I sat down and I venting, I didn't vent. I sat down and I venting, I didn't vent. I sat down and I did a turnaround. Here's how a did a turnaround. Here's how a did a turnaround. Here's how a turnaround works. This comes This is turnaround works. This comes This is turnaround works. This comes This is called inquirybased stress reduction. called inquirybased stress reduction. called inquirybased stress reduction. It's a technique that was uh pioneered It's a technique that was uh pioneered It's a technique that was uh pioneered by Byron Katy. I'm sure many of your by Byron Katy. I'm sure many of your by Byron Katy. I'm sure many of your listeners will know her, but she listeners will know her, but she listeners will know her, but she actually was ch channeling a technique actually was ch channeling a technique actually was ch channeling a technique that's over 2,000 years old. Aristotle that's over 2,000 years old. Aristotle that's over 2,000 years old. Aristotle did something very similar, but she kind did something very similar, but she kind did something very similar, but she kind of really perfected it. Here's how it of really perfected it. Here's how it of really perfected it. Here's how it works. I took that belief, my mother is works. I took that belief, my mother is works. I took that belief, my mother is too judgmental and hard to please. And I too judgmental and hard to please. And I too judgmental and hard to please. And I wrote it down. And then Katie asks us to wrote it down. And then Katie asks us to wrote it down. And then Katie asks us to ask four questions of ourselves. The ask four questions of ourselves. The ask four questions of ourselves. The first question is, is that belief true? first question is, is that belief true? first question is, is that belief true? My mother is too judgmental and hard to My mother is too judgmental and hard to My mother is too judgmental and hard to please. Obviously, what a stupid please. Obviously, what a stupid please. Obviously, what a stupid question. What was Katie thinking? question. What was Katie thinking? question. What was Katie thinking? Right. Obviously, my mother is being too Right. Obviously, my mother is being too Right. Obviously, my mother is being too judgmental and hard to please. That's a judgmental and hard to please. That's a judgmental and hard to please. That's a dumb question. Let's skip that one. The dumb question. Let's skip that one. The dumb question. Let's skip that one. The second question, is it absolutely true? second question, is it absolutely true? second question, is it absolutely true? Is it absolutely true that my mother was Is it absolutely true that my mother was Is it absolutely true that my mother was being too judgmental and hard to please? being too judgmental and hard to please? being too judgmental and hard to please? Absolutely means 100% of the time, no Absolutely means 100% of the time, no Absolutely means 100% of the time, no exceptions. There's no other possible exceptions. There's no other possible exceptions. There's no other possible explanation. explanation. explanation. It's not a It's not a law of nature that It's not a It's not a law of nature that It's not a It's not a law of nature that my mother was being too judgmental, hard my mother was being too judgmental, hard my mother was being too judgmental, hard to please. It's okay. May maybe I don't to please. It's okay. May maybe I don't to please. It's okay. May maybe I don't know what the other explanation might be know what the other explanation might be know what the other explanation might be but maybe there's an alternative but maybe there's an alternative but maybe there's an alternative explanation. Okay. Now the third explanation. Okay. Now the third explanation. Okay. Now the third question. question. question. Who am I when I hold on to this belief? Who am I when I hold on to this belief? Who am I when I hold on to this belief? How do I feel? Who do I become when I How do I feel? Who do I become when I How do I feel? Who do I become when I hold on to this belief? hold on to this belief? hold on to this belief? Well, [sighs] Well, [sighs] Well, [sighs] I'm not very nice. I'm kind of I'm not very nice. I'm kind of I'm not very nice. I'm kind of impatient. I become this 13-year-old impatient. I become this 13-year-old impatient. I become this 13-year-old version of myself that I don't really version of myself that I don't really version of myself that I don't really like. All right. Fourth question. Who like. All right. Fourth question. Who like. All right. Fourth question. Who would I be without this belief? If I had would I be without this belief? If I had would I be without this belief? If I had this magic wand and poof, I could tap my this magic wand and poof, I could tap my this magic wand and poof, I could tap my head and the belief would disappear. head and the belief would disappear. head and the belief would disappear. >> Who would I be? How would I feel? >> Who would I be? How would I feel? >> Who would I be? How would I feel? >> I felt noticeably lighter. Just the >> I felt noticeably lighter. Just the >> I felt noticeably lighter. Just the thought of getting rid of that belief. I thought of getting rid of that belief. I thought of getting rid of that belief. I felt more at peace. I'd be more patient. felt more at peace. I'd be more patient. felt more at peace. I'd be more patient. I'd be more myself, which sounded great. I'd be more myself, which sounded great. I'd be more myself, which sounded great. >> So, in just four questions in about a >> So, in just four questions in about a >> So, in just four questions in about a minute, two minutes, minute, two minutes, minute, two minutes, >> I determined one this thing I was sure >> I determined one this thing I was sure >> I determined one this thing I was sure was a fact. And I've I've you know this was a fact. And I've I've you know this was a fact. And I've I've you know this is a this is a pretty mundane example is a this is a pretty mundane example is a this is a pretty mundane example that I think a lot of people can relate that I think a lot of people can relate that I think a lot of people can relate with. But I've seen people who have who with. But I've seen people who have who with. But I've seen people who have who are struggling with trauma who are are struggling with trauma who are are struggling with trauma who are struggling with all kinds of things in struggling with all kinds of things in struggling with all kinds of things in their life and just with these four their life and just with these four their life and just with these four questions they realize number one I'm questions they realize number one I'm questions they realize number one I'm not 100% sure it's a fact. It couldn't not 100% sure it's a fact. It couldn't not 100% sure it's a fact. It couldn't just be a belief. just be a belief. just be a belief. >> Number two that not having that belief >> Number two that not having that belief >> Number two that not having that belief might actually serve me. And number might actually serve me. And number might actually serve me. And number three that holding on to the belief three that holding on to the belief three that holding on to the belief wasn't making me better. It it was it wasn't making me better. It it was it wasn't making me better. It it was it was a drag. It was causing suffering in was a drag. It was causing suffering in was a drag. It was causing suffering in my life this belief. So now it's time my life this belief. So now it's time my life this belief. So now it's time for the turnaround. Turnaround asks you for the turnaround. Turnaround asks you for the turnaround. Turnaround asks you to do something that your brain hates. to do something that your brain hates. to do something that your brain hates. And everybody I've never met someone who And everybody I've never met someone who And everybody I've never met someone who doesn't have some friction here. And so doesn't have some friction here. And so doesn't have some friction here. And so if you try this, anticipate it. Just we if you try this, anticipate it. Just we if you try this, anticipate it. Just we talked about how you have to plan ahead talked about how you have to plan ahead talked about how you have to plan ahead for that discomfort. Plan for the pain. for that discomfort. Plan for the pain. for that discomfort. Plan for the pain. >> Plan for the pain because >> Plan for the pain because >> Plan for the pain because >> your brain hates changing its mind. Let >> your brain hates changing its mind. Let >> your brain hates changing its mind. Let me say that again. Your brain hates me say that again. Your brain hates me say that again. Your brain hates changing its mind. Remember the reason changing its mind. Remember the reason changing its mind. Remember the reason we have limiting beliefs is because they we have limiting beliefs is because they we have limiting beliefs is because they served us in the past. They protected served us in the past. They protected served us in the past. They protected us. So your brain wants to do everything us. So your brain wants to do everything us. So your brain wants to do everything it possibly can to keep you passive, to it possibly can to keep you passive, to it possibly can to keep you passive, to keep you docile, to keep you from moving keep you docile, to keep you from moving keep you docile, to keep you from moving outside your comfort zone because that's outside your comfort zone because that's outside your comfort zone because that's what kept you safe in the past. So your what kept you safe in the past. So your what kept you safe in the past. So your brain hates changing its mind. So the brain hates changing its mind. So the brain hates changing its mind. So the idea of a turnaround is you're not idea of a turnaround is you're not idea of a turnaround is you're not changing your mind. You're just changing your mind. You're just changing your mind. You're just collecting what I call a portfolio of collecting what I call a portfolio of collecting what I call a portfolio of perspectives. That's it. Just like, you perspectives. That's it. Just like, you perspectives. That's it. Just like, you know, Pokemon cards or baseball cards. know, Pokemon cards or baseball cards. know, Pokemon cards or baseball cards. You're just collecting different You're just collecting different You're just collecting different beliefs. That's it. That's all the beliefs. That's it. That's all the beliefs. That's it. That's all the exercise asks you to do. And you do that exercise asks you to do. And you do that exercise asks you to do. And you do that by asking yourself, could [snorts] the by asking yourself, could [snorts] the by asking yourself, could [snorts] the exact opposite of what I am sure is a exact opposite of what I am sure is a exact opposite of what I am sure is a belief is a truth, right? Could the belief is a truth, right? Could the belief is a truth, right? Could the exact opposite also be true? So, let's exact opposite also be true? So, let's exact opposite also be true? So, let's try it. My mother is too judgmental and try it. My mother is too judgmental and try it. My mother is too judgmental and hard to please. I have one belief. Let's hard to please. I have one belief. Let's hard to please. I have one belief. Let's see if I can get a second. What's the see if I can get a second. What's the see if I can get a second. What's the opposite of my mother is too judgmental opposite of my mother is too judgmental opposite of my mother is too judgmental and hard to please? My mother is not too and hard to please? My mother is not too and hard to please? My mother is not too judgmental and hard to please. I thought judgmental and hard to please. I thought judgmental and hard to please. I thought for a minute, could that be true? Well, for a minute, could that be true? Well, for a minute, could that be true? Well, she did thank me for the flowers. She she did thank me for the flowers. She she did thank me for the flowers. She was just saying a statement of fact, was just saying a statement of fact, was just saying a statement of fact, right? That's how the flowers look to right? That's how the flowers look to right? That's how the flowers look to her. Okay? her. Okay? her. Okay? >> Maybe she was trying to be helpful and >> Maybe she was trying to be helpful and >> Maybe she was trying to be helpful and not hurtful. not hurtful. not hurtful. >> Maybe she was just trying to make sure I >> Maybe she was just trying to make sure I >> Maybe she was just trying to make sure I didn't get scammed by this florist. didn't get scammed by this florist. didn't get scammed by this florist. >> Okay, now I have two beliefs. Let's do a >> Okay, now I have two beliefs. Let's do a >> Okay, now I have two beliefs. Let's do a third belief. My mother is too too third belief. My mother is too too third belief. My mother is too too judgmental and hard to please. The judgmental and hard to please. The judgmental and hard to please. The opposite of that, I am too judgmental opposite of that, I am too judgmental opposite of that, I am too judgmental and hard to please. Could that be true? and hard to please. Could that be true? and hard to please. Could that be true? Well, to be honest, I had rehearsed in Well, to be honest, I had rehearsed in Well, to be honest, I had rehearsed in my mind that I deserved eusive praise my mind that I deserved eusive praise my mind that I deserved eusive praise for what I'd done. And when that didn't for what I'd done. And when that didn't for what I'd done. And when that didn't appear, I lost it. appear, I lost it. appear, I lost it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, who was being judgmental? >> So, who was being judgmental? >> So, who was being judgmental? I was. Okay. Now, we have three beliefs. I was. Okay. Now, we have three beliefs. I was. Okay. Now, we have three beliefs. Let's try for our fourth. I am too Let's try for our fourth. I am too Let's try for our fourth. I am too judgmental and hard to please towards judgmental and hard to please towards judgmental and hard to please towards myself. That's also a turnaround. That myself. That's also a turnaround. That myself. That's also a turnaround. That one was the hardest to accept, but one was the hardest to accept, but one was the hardest to accept, but turned out to be the most true. that turned out to be the most true. that turned out to be the most true. that after I had spent all this time and after I had spent all this time and after I had spent all this time and money doing something and it didn't work money doing something and it didn't work money doing something and it didn't work out, I felt like I was incompetent, like out, I felt like I was incompetent, like out, I felt like I was incompetent, like I had messed up, like it was my fault. I had messed up, like it was my fault. I had messed up, like it was my fault. And this is what we call a And this is what we call a And this is what we call a misattribution of emotion. When we feel misattribution of emotion. When we feel misattribution of emotion. When we feel bad inside, we look for the first person bad inside, we look for the first person bad inside, we look for the first person that we can take it out on. And that's that we can take it out on. And that's that we can take it out on. And that's exactly what I did. But really, I was exactly what I did. But really, I was exactly what I did. But really, I was feeling bad about something that I was feeling bad about something that I was feeling bad about something that I was judging myself for. judging myself for. judging myself for. So now, which one of those four beliefs So now, which one of those four beliefs So now, which one of those four beliefs is true? Which is false? All of them. is true? Which is false? All of them. is true? Which is false? All of them. None of them. Who cares? Beliefs are None of them. Who cares? Beliefs are None of them. Who cares? Beliefs are tools, not truths. So, what I could do tools, not truths. So, what I could do tools, not truths. So, what I could do with that is realize that that first with that is realize that that first with that is realize that that first belief, my mother is too judgmental and belief, my mother is too judgmental and belief, my mother is too judgmental and hard to please, only one way out. She hard to please, only one way out. She hard to please, only one way out. She had to change so I could stop suffering. had to change so I could stop suffering. had to change so I could stop suffering. If if you hold your breath waiting If if you hold your breath waiting If if you hold your breath waiting people to for people to change, you're people to for people to change, you're people to for people to change, you're going to suffocate. going to suffocate. going to suffocate. >> People lock themselves into mental >> People lock themselves into mental >> People lock themselves into mental prisons on this stuff of their own prisons on this stuff of their own prisons on this stuff of their own making all the time. making all the time. making all the time. >> And even if she was wrong, why am I the >> And even if she was wrong, why am I the >> And even if she was wrong, why am I the dummy waiting for her to change so I can dummy waiting for her to change so I can dummy waiting for her to change so I can prove to her for a fact she was being prove to her for a fact she was being prove to her for a fact she was being too judgmental? too judgmental? too judgmental? >> So what? So what >> So what? So what >> So what? So what >> wouldn't help anything anyway. >> wouldn't help anything anyway. >> wouldn't help anything anyway. >> Exactly. With these other three beliefs, >> Exactly. With these other three beliefs, >> Exactly. With these other three beliefs, wow, I could free myself from that wow, I could free myself from that wow, I could free myself from that suffering and now it was something I suffering and now it was something I suffering and now it was something I could do. She wasn't even in the room could do. She wasn't even in the room could do. She wasn't even in the room anymore and yet she was causing me anymore and yet she was causing me anymore and yet she was causing me suffering. With these other three suffering. With these other three suffering. With these other three beliefs, I could have a different beliefs, I could have a different beliefs, I could have a different perspective. And what did that do? Most perspective. And what did that do? Most perspective. And what did that do? Most importantly, these new liberating importantly, these new liberating importantly, these new liberating beliefs, what did that do to my beliefs, what did that do to my beliefs, what did that do to my motivation level to to have a motivation level to to have a motivation level to to have a relationship with my mom? I became more relationship with my mom? I became more relationship with my mom? I became more motivated to have a relationship with motivated to have a relationship with motivated to have a relationship with her. I reduced my suffering dayto-day. her. I reduced my suffering dayto-day. her. I reduced my suffering dayto-day. So that's what this line of research has So that's what this line of research has So that's what this line of research has done more than anything for me. It done more than anything for me. It done more than anything for me. It doesn't it doesn't you know make you doesn't it doesn't you know make you doesn't it doesn't you know make you have this superpower. It reduces your have this superpower. It reduces your have this superpower. It reduces your suffering and increases your motivation suffering and increases your motivation suffering and increases your motivation to persist long enough to get the things to persist long enough to get the things to persist long enough to get the things that you really want in your life. that you really want in your life. that you really want in your life. >> I think it's such a great example >> I think it's such a great example >> I think it's such a great example because it speaks to close relationships because it speaks to close relationships because it speaks to close relationships and as you've already pointed out and as you've already pointed out and as you've already pointed out sometimes it's the people closest to us sometimes it's the people closest to us sometimes it's the people closest to us who don't see the best of us. who don't see the best of us. who don't see the best of us. And I mean that that chapter in the book And I mean that that chapter in the book And I mean that that chapter in the book in which you talk about that story um in which you talk about that story um in which you talk about that story um the subtitle to that chapter heading the subtitle to that chapter heading the subtitle to that chapter heading from recollection is you don't have a from recollection is you don't have a from recollection is you don't have a relationship problem you have a relationship problem you have a relationship problem you have a perception problem which again I think perception problem which again I think perception problem which again I think is is brilliant because it it speaks to is is brilliant because it it speaks to is is brilliant because it it speaks to what we said right at the start which is what we said right at the start which is what we said right at the start which is >> most of us are not seeing reality. We're >> most of us are not seeing reality. We're >> most of us are not seeing reality. We're seeing a version of the world created by seeing a version of the world created by seeing a version of the world created by our beliefs. you created that version our beliefs. you created that version our beliefs. you created that version because you had this expectation and I because you had this expectation and I because you had this expectation and I guess you could call it a belief about guess you could call it a belief about guess you could call it a belief about what your mother should do what your mother should do what your mother should do >> when you stay up till 1:00 a.m. and do >> when you stay up till 1:00 a.m. and do >> when you stay up till 1:00 a.m. and do something for her. Right? something for her. Right? something for her. Right? >> And it's it's such a beautiful exercise >> And it's it's such a beautiful exercise >> And it's it's such a beautiful exercise to turn things around very quickly at to turn things around very quickly at to turn things around very quickly at least to just soften your belief belief least to just soften your belief belief least to just soften your belief belief again that that was a fact. again that that was a fact. again that that was a fact. >> Right. It's kind of interesting for me >> Right. It's kind of interesting for me >> Right. It's kind of interesting for me because the first time I heard you tell because the first time I heard you tell because the first time I heard you tell that story that story that story >> on a podcast recently, >> the first thing that went in my head >> the first thing that went in my head before you got into how you turned before you got into how you turned before you got into how you turned around when you just said what your mom around when you just said what your mom around when you just said what your mom had said to you, which is, "Hey, no, had said to you, which is, "Hey, no, had said to you, which is, "Hey, no, thanks so much." And then, "By the way, thanks so much." And then, "By the way, thanks so much." And then, "By the way, the flowers came half dead, so don't use the flowers came half dead, so don't use the flowers came half dead, so don't use that florest again." that florest again." that florest again." >> I thought it just sounds like a really >> I thought it just sounds like a really >> I thought it just sounds like a really helpful thing [laughter] to me, right? helpful thing [laughter] to me, right? helpful thing [laughter] to me, right? I'm like I'm like oh I'm like I'm like oh I'm like I'm like oh >> she said thanks so she appreciated it >> she said thanks so she appreciated it >> she said thanks so she appreciated it and then she may be trying to stop her and then she may be trying to stop her and then she may be trying to stop her beloved son wasting his money and next beloved son wasting his money and next beloved son wasting his money and next time she's a different florist right can time she's a different florist right can time she's a different florist right can I ask what's the nationality of your mom I ask what's the nationality of your mom I ask what's the nationality of your mom >> we're Israeli >> we're Israeli >> we're Israeli >> Israeli okay I the only reason I ask is >> Israeli okay I the only reason I ask is >> Israeli okay I the only reason I ask is because something I put this out on because something I put this out on because something I put this out on Instagram once before I think and it was Instagram once before I think and it was Instagram once before I think and it was so controversial so controversial so controversial >> and so my mom was born and brought up in >> and so my mom was born and brought up in >> and so my mom was born and brought up in India India India >> and she came to the UK in I think 1972. >> and she came to the UK in I think 1972. >> and she came to the UK in I think 1972. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And >> And >> And you know I don't want to generalize but you know I don't want to generalize but you know I don't want to generalize but Indian moms can be quite direct. Indian moms can be quite direct. Indian moms can be quite direct. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And this really does speak to this to to >> And this really does speak to this to to >> And this really does speak to this to to the kind of underlying thesis in your the kind of underlying thesis in your the kind of underlying thesis in your book I think about book I think about book I think about >> beliefs and we're not seeing reality >> beliefs and we're not seeing reality >> beliefs and we're not seeing reality right we're creating Rousey through our right we're creating Rousey through our right we're creating Rousey through our beliefs. Have you tried to meditate beliefs. Have you tried to meditate beliefs. Have you tried to meditate before? Perhaps you've heard about some before? Perhaps you've heard about some before? Perhaps you've heard about some of the benefits like reducing stress and of the benefits like reducing stress and of the benefits like reducing stress and increased focus and you've given it a go increased focus and you've given it a go increased focus and you've given it a go and thought it's not the practice for and thought it's not the practice for and thought it's not the practice for you. Well, I believe that may well be you. Well, I believe that may well be you. Well, I believe that may well be because you have not tried the right because you have not tried the right because you have not tried the right approach. The Way is the only meditation approach. The Way is the only meditation approach. The Way is the only meditation app with a single long-term pathway. app with a single long-term pathway. app with a single long-term pathway. You're not forced to make loads of You're not forced to make loads of You're not forced to make loads of choices each day. Instead, you're guided choices each day. Instead, you're guided choices each day. Instead, you're guided on an enjoyable and progressive journey on an enjoyable and progressive journey on an enjoyable and progressive journey that deepens your practice step by step. that deepens your practice step by step. that deepens your practice step by step. Since I partner with the way, I have had Since I partner with the way, I have had Since I partner with the way, I have had so much positive feedback. One listener so much positive feedback. One listener so much positive feedback. One listener said, "Dr. Chhatty, I came to the way said, "Dr. Chhatty, I came to the way said, "Dr. Chhatty, I came to the way through your podcast. I have tried other through your podcast. I have tried other through your podcast. I have tried other meditation apps in the past with limited meditation apps in the past with limited meditation apps in the past with limited success and like the idea of following a success and like the idea of following a success and like the idea of following a single guided path. I'm nearly 2 months single guided path. I'm nearly 2 months single guided path. I'm nearly 2 months in now and loving it. Henry's gentle and in now and loving it. Henry's gentle and in now and loving it. Henry's gentle and concise approach is very calming and the concise approach is very calming and the concise approach is very calming and the way is now a part of my morning routine. way is now a part of my morning routine. way is now a part of my morning routine. You see, that's the sentiment that so You see, that's the sentiment that so You see, that's the sentiment that so many people report when they start many people report when they start many people report when they start meditating with the way. For listeners meditating with the way. For listeners meditating with the way. For listeners of my show, The Way is offering 30 free of my show, The Way is offering 30 free of my show, The Way is offering 30 free sessions to help you establish your own sessions to help you establish your own sessions to help you establish your own meditation practice. All you have to do meditation practice. All you have to do meditation practice. All you have to do is click on the QR code on screen or go is click on the QR code on screen or go is click on the QR code on screen or go to the wayapp.comlivemore to get started. So I remember so clearly to get started. So I remember so clearly coming back from university. coming back from university. coming back from university. >> I don't know first year or second year. >> I don't know first year or second year. >> I don't know first year or second year. You know I'd gone away. I was eating too You know I'd gone away. I was eating too You know I'd gone away. I was eating too much. I was drinking too much. You know much. I was drinking too much. You know much. I was drinking too much. You know I was I was I was >> first time away from home. >> first time away from home. >> first time away from home. >> And I think at one point mom said in >> And I think at one point mom said in >> And I think at one point mom said in some version of some version of some version of you're fat. What are you doing? you're fat. What are you doing? you're fat. What are you doing? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Now, depending on your life experience, >> Now, depending on your life experience, >> Now, depending on your life experience, you will interpret that you will interpret that you will interpret that potentially differently from how I potentially differently from how I potentially differently from how I interpreted it, interpreted it, interpreted it, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> I never minded, >> I never minded, >> I never minded, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> Because I've grown up with mom and I >> Because I've grown up with mom and I >> Because I've grown up with mom and I like the fact that she's direct like the fact that she's direct like the fact that she's direct >> and she was right. >> and she was right. >> and she was right. >> And actually, her saying that to me >> And actually, her saying that to me >> And actually, her saying that to me helped me realize, yeah, you know what, helped me realize, yeah, you know what, helped me realize, yeah, you know what, mom's right. Actually, I should probably mom's right. Actually, I should probably mom's right. Actually, I should probably um shouldn't tell me what to do. I just um shouldn't tell me what to do. I just um shouldn't tell me what to do. I just thought, thought, thought, >> "Yeah, I I probably let myself go a >> "Yeah, I I probably let myself go a >> "Yeah, I I probably let myself go a little bit. I can be a bit more little bit. I can be a bit more little bit. I can be a bit more [clears throat] careful or whatever it [clears throat] careful or whatever it [clears throat] careful or whatever it might be." might be." might be." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Now, when I put that out on Instagram, >> Now, when I put that out on Instagram, >> Now, when I put that out on Instagram, oh my god, for some people, they're oh my god, for some people, they're oh my god, for some people, they're like, "That's abusive. That's" and like, "That's abusive. That's" and like, "That's abusive. That's" and [laughter] I was wondering because [laughter] I was wondering because [laughter] I was wondering because obviously I I don't particularly want obviously I I don't particularly want obviously I I don't particularly want negative comments about my mom, right? negative comments about my mom, right? negative comments about my mom, right? >> And it but it speaks to this idea that >> And it but it speaks to this idea that >> And it but it speaks to this idea that people are locked in to their beliefs people are locked in to their beliefs people are locked in to their beliefs about the world, right? Sure, I accept about the world, right? Sure, I accept about the world, right? Sure, I accept that can also be done in a very that can also be done in a very that can also be done in a very controlling way. And maybe people making controlling way. And maybe people making controlling way. And maybe people making those comments, those negative comments, those comments, those negative comments, those comments, those negative comments, maybe they've had those direct comments maybe they've had those direct comments maybe they've had those direct comments used against them in a negative way. And used against them in a negative way. And used against them in a negative way. And I get that. I get that. I get that. >> I totally get that. But again, mom's >> I totally get that. But again, mom's >> I totally get that. But again, mom's saying that to me. I could interpret saying that to me. I could interpret saying that to me. I could interpret that as, that as, that as, >> you know what, mom loves me and she's >> you know what, mom loves me and she's >> you know what, mom loves me and she's telling me it how it is. Or I can choose telling me it how it is. Or I can choose telling me it how it is. Or I can choose to take offense. Right. to take offense. Right. to take offense. Right. >> Right. And go, I can't believe she said >> Right. And go, I can't believe she said >> Right. And go, I can't believe she said that to me. And again, there's a that to me. And again, there's a that to me. And again, there's a cultural component to that as well. cultural component to that as well. cultural component to that as well. Right. Because I I suspect for an Right. Because I I suspect for an Right. Because I I suspect for an English family, for a for a native English family, for a for a native English family, for a for a native British family, British family, British family, >> politeness is a a big value here in the >> politeness is a a big value here in the >> politeness is a a big value here in the UK. UK. UK. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's probably not what you know, do >> That's probably not what you know, do >> That's probably not what you know, do you know what I mean? There there's a you know what I mean? There there's a you know what I mean? There there's a there's a cultural difference and I there's a cultural difference and I there's a cultural difference and I understand that having lived with my mom understand that having lived with my mom understand that having lived with my mom since I was born. since I was born. since I was born. >> So our our beliefs are definitely shaped >> So our our beliefs are definitely shaped >> So our our beliefs are definitely shaped from our priors. Whether it's our from our priors. Whether it's our from our priors. Whether it's our culture, whether it's our upbringing, culture, whether it's our upbringing, culture, whether it's our upbringing, for sure. That's where they come from. for sure. That's where they come from. for sure. That's where they come from. All our beliefs come from these these All our beliefs come from these these All our beliefs come from these these priors. They also tend to spark what we priors. They also tend to spark what we priors. They also tend to spark what we are most what we value most. are most what we value most. are most what we value most. >> Right? So it could be that for you uh >> Right? So it could be that for you uh >> Right? So it could be that for you uh being a little overweight wasn't that being a little overweight wasn't that being a little overweight wasn't that big of a deal. It's not something that big of a deal. It's not something that big of a deal. It's not something that wasn't wasn't one of your insecurities. wasn't wasn't one of your insecurities. wasn't wasn't one of your insecurities. Whereas for me, if somebody were to tell Whereas for me, if somebody were to tell Whereas for me, if somebody were to tell me I was fat, I would think about that me I was fat, I would think about that me I was fat, I would think about that for months. Like that would really hurt for months. Like that would really hurt for months. Like that would really hurt me. me. me. >> I wasn't even over. I probably just had >> I wasn't even over. I probably just had >> I wasn't even over. I probably just had some slightly chubby cheeks some slightly chubby cheeks some slightly chubby cheeks >> because it wasn't something you >> because it wasn't something you >> because it wasn't something you struggled with before. struggled with before. struggled with before. >> Exactly. But for me, I think what's >> Exactly. But for me, I think what's >> Exactly. But for me, I think what's important to realize here is that you important to realize here is that you important to realize here is that you don't see don't see don't see things and people as they are. You see things and people as they are. You see things and people as they are. You see them as you are. It's because I had this them as you are. It's because I had this them as you are. It's because I had this insecurity that any little thing would insecurity that any little thing would insecurity that any little thing would would trigger me. would trigger me. would trigger me. >> And so what I've adopted since that's >> And so what I've adopted since that's >> And so what I've adopted since that's that's really helpful to me. And I and that's really helpful to me. And I and that's really helpful to me. And I and this is again one of those mantras that this is again one of those mantras that this is again one of those mantras that I say to myself constantly to remind I say to myself constantly to remind I say to myself constantly to remind myself of a liberating belief that I've myself of a liberating belief that I've myself of a liberating belief that I've chosen to adopt. Not a fact. It's a chosen to adopt. Not a fact. It's a chosen to adopt. Not a fact. It's a belief. It's a tool, not a truth. And I belief. It's a tool, not a truth. And I belief. It's a tool, not a truth. And I constantly repeat to myself, love is constantly repeat to myself, love is constantly repeat to myself, love is measured by the benefit of the doubt. measured by the benefit of the doubt. measured by the benefit of the doubt. What does that mean? Love is measured by What does that mean? Love is measured by What does that mean? Love is measured by the benefit of the doubt. That when we the benefit of the doubt. That when we the benefit of the doubt. That when we say I love you so much, or we say, you say I love you so much, or we say, you say I love you so much, or we say, you know, I love my parents or I love my know, I love my parents or I love my know, I love my parents or I love my siblings or I love my fellow man. What siblings or I love my fellow man. What siblings or I love my fellow man. What does that mean? How much do how do I does that mean? How much do how do I does that mean? How much do how do I measure love? To me, love is measured by measure love? To me, love is measured by measure love? To me, love is measured by the benefit of the doubt. When my the benefit of the doubt. When my the benefit of the doubt. When my daughter was first born, and I remember daughter was first born, and I remember daughter was first born, and I remember I I I held her. It gives me goosebumps I I I held her. It gives me goosebumps I I I held her. It gives me goosebumps now because she's 17, but I remember the now because she's 17, but I remember the now because she's 17, but I remember the day I held her. She was exactly this day I held her. She was exactly this day I held her. She was exactly this big. And uh the the the doctor let me big. And uh the the the doctor let me big. And uh the the the doctor let me take the baby downstairs and we I got to take the baby downstairs and we I got to take the baby downstairs and we I got to uh give her her first bath after she was uh give her her first bath after she was uh give her her first bath after she was born. And I remember feeling I love this born. And I remember feeling I love this born. And I remember feeling I love this person. She was, you know, this this person. She was, you know, this this person. She was, you know, this this little baby more than anything in the little baby more than anything in the little baby more than anything in the world. And I would give her every world. And I would give her every world. And I would give her every [clears throat] benefit of the doubt. [clears throat] benefit of the doubt. [clears throat] benefit of the doubt. Now, why did I love her so much? Was it Now, why did I love her so much? Was it Now, why did I love her so much? Was it because she did nice things for me? No. because she did nice things for me? No. because she did nice things for me? No. She she wasn't sending me flowers like I She she wasn't sending me flowers like I She she wasn't sending me flowers like I did for my mom. Why did I love her so did for my mom. Why did I love her so did for my mom. Why did I love her so much? It's because I gave her complete much? It's because I gave her complete much? It's because I gave her complete benefit of the doubt. When she cried, benefit of the doubt. When she cried, benefit of the doubt. When she cried, did I say, "Oh, you're crying because did I say, "Oh, you're crying because did I say, "Oh, you're crying because you want to annoy me?" No. It's the only you want to annoy me?" No. It's the only you want to annoy me?" No. It's the only tool she had at her disposal. All she tool she had at her disposal. All she tool she had at her disposal. All she could do was cry when she needed could do was cry when she needed could do was cry when she needed something. something. something. >> Well, guess what? >> Well, guess what? >> Well, guess what? >> We're all big babies. >> We're all big babies. >> We're all big babies. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> We just grow up. That's all. We just get >> We just grow up. That's all. We just get >> We just grow up. That's all. We just get bigger. bigger. bigger. >> And yet, so for me, when I remind >> And yet, so for me, when I remind >> And yet, so for me, when I remind myself, just like I gave my daughter myself, just like I gave my daughter myself, just like I gave my daughter when she was born all the benefit of the when she was born all the benefit of the when she was born all the benefit of the doubt because I loved her so much, you doubt because I loved her so much, you doubt because I loved her so much, you measure love by the benefit of the measure love by the benefit of the measure love by the benefit of the doubt. How could I expect my mom to doubt. How could I expect my mom to doubt. How could I expect my mom to behave any differently? That's the tool behave any differently? That's the tool behave any differently? That's the tool she has. The suffering came because I she has. The suffering came because I she has. The suffering came because I expected reality to be differently. It's expected reality to be differently. It's expected reality to be differently. It's like asking my mom to speak Russian. She like asking my mom to speak Russian. She like asking my mom to speak Russian. She doesn't speak Russian. [laughter] doesn't speak Russian. [laughter] doesn't speak Russian. [laughter] >> How can I expect her to say things >> How can I expect her to say things >> How can I expect her to say things exactly the way I would like them to exactly the way I would like them to exactly the way I would like them to land on me? land on me? land on me? >> That's ridiculous that I was creating >> That's ridiculous that I was creating >> That's ridiculous that I was creating this suffering because I I I I was this suffering because I I I I was this suffering because I I I I was trying to change reality from how it trying to change reality from how it trying to change reality from how it was. That's the source of all this was. That's the source of all this was. That's the source of all this suffering. Instead, I interpret it suffering. Instead, I interpret it suffering. Instead, I interpret it again. The pain is just signal, just again. The pain is just signal, just again. The pain is just signal, just information. the suffering is up to me. information. the suffering is up to me. information. the suffering is up to me. And so when I remind myself constantly And so when I remind myself constantly And so when I remind myself constantly when something happens that would that when something happens that would that when something happens that would that annoys me and triggers me, love is annoys me and triggers me, love is annoys me and triggers me, love is measured by the benefit of the doubt. measured by the benefit of the doubt. measured by the benefit of the doubt. >> Yeah, that that's really beautiful, N. >> Yeah, that that's really beautiful, N. >> Yeah, that that's really beautiful, N. And and throughout the book, there's all And and throughout the book, there's all And and throughout the book, there's all kinds of practical exercises that people kinds of practical exercises that people kinds of practical exercises that people can practice with because some of this can practice with because some of this can practice with because some of this stuff is not going to just, you know, stuff is not going to just, you know, stuff is not going to just, you know, land immediately. They're not going to land immediately. They're not going to land immediately. They're not going to just hear it and go, "Okay, cool. Great. just hear it and go, "Okay, cool. Great. just hear it and go, "Okay, cool. Great. I'm not going to have any relationship I'm not going to have any relationship I'm not going to have any relationship problems anymore. problems anymore. problems anymore. >> I I wrote the book and I I have to >> I I wrote the book and I I have to >> I I wrote the book and I I have to reread it." reread it." reread it." >> Exactly. Because remember your your >> Exactly. Because remember your your >> Exactly. Because remember your your brain is trying constantly to suck you brain is trying constantly to suck you brain is trying constantly to suck you back into your default states back into your default states back into your default states [clears throat] of and we will do [clears throat] of and we will do [clears throat] of and we will do sometimes especially when we're tired or sometimes especially when we're tired or sometimes especially when we're tired or overworked or stressed. We we will fall overworked or stressed. We we will fall overworked or stressed. We we will fall back to old patterns and that's okay back to old patterns and that's okay back to old patterns and that's okay >> as long as you acknowledge it, take >> as long as you acknowledge it, take >> as long as you acknowledge it, take responsibility and then try again. responsibility and then try again. responsibility and then try again. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> So yeah, I think I think really really >> So yeah, I think I think really really >> So yeah, I think I think really really great examples. great examples. great examples. >> I want to talk about how belief relates >> I want to talk about how belief relates >> I want to talk about how belief relates to health. Mhm. to health. Mhm. to health. Mhm. >> Before we do that, could you just give >> Before we do that, could you just give >> Before we do that, could you just give us this framework of these three powers us this framework of these three powers us this framework of these three powers of belief that I don't think we've we've of belief that I don't think we've we've of belief that I don't think we've we've we've touched on them but probably not we've touched on them but probably not we've touched on them but probably not heard it as a kind of arching framework. heard it as a kind of arching framework. heard it as a kind of arching framework. So perhaps give us that. So perhaps give us that. So perhaps give us that. >> Sure. >> Sure. >> Sure. >> And then let's dive deep into health. >> And then let's dive deep into health. >> And then let's dive deep into health. >> Okay. Terrific. So um we have our >> Okay. Terrific. So um we have our >> Okay. Terrific. So um we have our limiting beliefs, we have our liberating limiting beliefs, we have our liberating limiting beliefs, we have our liberating beliefs. Uh we also have these three beliefs. Uh we also have these three beliefs. Uh we also have these three powers of belief. The first power of powers of belief. The first power of powers of belief. The first power of belief is the power of attention. The belief is the power of attention. The belief is the power of attention. The power of beliefs to change what you see. power of beliefs to change what you see. power of beliefs to change what you see. The second power is the power of The second power is the power of The second power is the power of anticipation. the power to change what anticipation. the power to change what anticipation. the power to change what you feel. And then the third power of you feel. And then the third power of you feel. And then the third power of belief, probably the most powerful of belief, probably the most powerful of belief, probably the most powerful of the three, is the power to change what the three, is the power to change what the three, is the power to change what you do. We call this the power of you do. We call this the power of you do. We call this the power of agency. agency. agency. >> Yeah. And I guess in the power of >> Yeah. And I guess in the power of >> Yeah. And I guess in the power of attention, we've already spoken about attention, we've already spoken about attention, we've already spoken about this idea that believing is seeing. You this idea that believing is seeing. You this idea that believing is seeing. You mentioned the hypnosation and the chap mentioned the hypnosation and the chap mentioned the hypnosation and the chap who did the operation who did the operation who did the operation >> without any anesthetic. >> without any anesthetic. >> without any anesthetic. >> We touched on relationships and you >> We touched on relationships and you >> We touched on relationships and you know, choose the perspective that that know, choose the perspective that that know, choose the perspective that that kind of helps you I guess. Um the second kind of helps you I guess. Um the second kind of helps you I guess. Um the second one was the power of anticipation that one was the power of anticipation that one was the power of anticipation that you just mentioned you just mentioned you just mentioned >> and in this section in the book there >> and in this section in the book there >> and in this section in the book there was quite a lot of stuff around health was quite a lot of stuff around health was quite a lot of stuff around health which I found really really interesting. which I found really really interesting. which I found really really interesting. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. >> I particularly like the chapter called >> I particularly like the chapter called >> I particularly like the chapter called Living Longer, Stronger, and Smarter. Living Longer, Stronger, and Smarter. Living Longer, Stronger, and Smarter. How your beliefs become your biology. How your beliefs become your biology. How your beliefs become your biology. And you make the case that our thoughts And you make the case that our thoughts And you make the case that our thoughts about aging might have more impact on about aging might have more impact on about aging might have more impact on the aging process than things like diet, the aging process than things like diet, the aging process than things like diet, exercise, and sleep. So, can you speak exercise, and sleep. So, can you speak exercise, and sleep. So, can you speak to that topic a little bit? I think it's to that topic a little bit? I think it's to that topic a little bit? I think it's it's important to to um to clarify some it's important to to um to clarify some it's important to to um to clarify some of the myths around beliefs that I think of the myths around beliefs that I think of the myths around beliefs that I think that there's this kind of popular that there's this kind of popular that there's this kind of popular narrative that just your thoughts will narrative that just your thoughts will narrative that just your thoughts will change your biology that just your change your biology that just your change your biology that just your thoughts will change your reality. And thoughts will change your reality. And thoughts will change your reality. And there's a lot of studies unfortunately there's a lot of studies unfortunately there's a lot of studies unfortunately that turn out not to replicate that turn that turn out not to replicate that turn that turn out not to replicate that turn out not to be very well-run uh that that out not to be very well-run uh that that out not to be very well-run uh that that seem to imply this. There's a a a we seem to imply this. There's a a a we seem to imply this. There's a a a we don't need to name the specific studies don't need to name the specific studies don't need to name the specific studies but anyway we should know that beliefs but anyway we should know that beliefs but anyway we should know that beliefs do not directly change your biology and do not directly change your biology and do not directly change your biology and yet we know that they can have profound yet we know that they can have profound yet we know that they can have profound consequences. So there was a study done consequences. So there was a study done consequences. So there was a study done at Yale where they found that people who at Yale where they found that people who at Yale where they found that people who have positive views about aging in their have positive views about aging in their have positive views about aging in their 30s end up living 7 and 1/2 years 30s end up living 7 and 1/2 years 30s end up living 7 and 1/2 years longer. Seven and a half years longer. longer. Seven and a half years longer. longer. Seven and a half years longer. To put that in perspective that's huge. To put that in perspective that's huge. To put that in perspective that's huge. That's more than the effect of of diet. That's more than the effect of of diet. That's more than the effect of of diet. That's more than the effect of exercise. That's more than the effect of exercise. That's more than the effect of exercise. It's more than the effect of stopping It's more than the effect of stopping It's more than the effect of stopping smoking. seven and a half years is smoking. seven and a half years is smoking. seven and a half years is tremendous. Now, what does that look tremendous. Now, what does that look tremendous. Now, what does that look like? What does that sound like? Someone like? What does that sound like? Someone like? What does that sound like? Someone who has a negative view of aging says who has a negative view of aging says who has a negative view of aging says stuff that we hear all the time that stuff that we hear all the time that stuff that we hear all the time that aging involves inevitable decline. How aging involves inevitable decline. How aging involves inevitable decline. How many times I used to say, you know, I'm many times I used to say, you know, I'm many times I used to say, you know, I'm not that old at 48. But I used to say as not that old at 48. But I used to say as not that old at 48. But I used to say as I was getting into my 40s, ah, you know, I was getting into my 40s, ah, you know, I was getting into my 40s, ah, you know, I'm getting older. That's why I have I'm getting older. That's why I have I'm getting older. That's why I have this back pain or I'm having a senior this back pain or I'm having a senior this back pain or I'm having a senior moment when I would forget something. moment when I would forget something. moment when I would forget something. That would be a negative view of aging. That would be a negative view of aging. That would be a negative view of aging. And that was kind of my default state. And that was kind of my default state. And that was kind of my default state. >> And it's very damaging, isn't it? We >> And it's very damaging, isn't it? We >> And it's very damaging, isn't it? We don't realize how damaging that stuff don't realize how damaging that stuff don't realize how damaging that stuff is. is. is. >> And why is it so damaging? It's not that >> And why is it so damaging? It's not that >> And why is it so damaging? It's not that it's sending cosmic vibrations into your it's sending cosmic vibrations into your it's sending cosmic vibrations into your mitochondria. That's not what's mitochondria. That's not what's mitochondria. That's not what's happening. At least that's not what the happening. At least that's not what the happening. At least that's not what the evidence shows. There's a very specific evidence shows. There's a very specific evidence shows. There's a very specific reason why it's so damaging. And when we reason why it's so damaging. And when we reason why it's so damaging. And when we look at people who have positive views look at people who have positive views look at people who have positive views about aging, what do they believe? A about aging, what do they believe? A about aging, what do they believe? A positive view of aging is something as positive view of aging is something as positive view of aging is something as simple as growth is possible at any age. simple as growth is possible at any age. simple as growth is possible at any age. Growth is possible at any age. So when I Growth is possible at any age. So when I Growth is possible at any age. So when I have a difficulty, what memory, what have a difficulty, what memory, what have a difficulty, what memory, what what belief comes to mind first? Oh, I'm what belief comes to mind first? Oh, I'm what belief comes to mind first? Oh, I'm getting older. I'm having a senior getting older. I'm having a senior getting older. I'm having a senior moment. Oh, you know what? Growth is moment. Oh, you know what? Growth is moment. Oh, you know what? Growth is possible at any age. So how is it that possible at any age. So how is it that possible at any age. So how is it that believing something as simple as growth believing something as simple as growth believing something as simple as growth is possible at any age can give you 7 is possible at any age can give you 7 is possible at any age can give you 7 and 12 years more life? It's not that and 12 years more life? It's not that and 12 years more life? It's not that it's changing your mitochondria in any it's changing your mitochondria in any it's changing your mitochondria in any way, it's not making you, it's not way, it's not making you, it's not way, it's not making you, it's not changing your biology directly. It's changing your biology directly. It's changing your biology directly. It's that people who have a positive view of that people who have a positive view of that people who have a positive view of aging aging aging behave differently. So, if you have a behave differently. So, if you have a behave differently. So, if you have a positive view of aging, if you believe positive view of aging, if you believe positive view of aging, if you believe uh growth is possible at any age, what's uh growth is possible at any age, what's uh growth is possible at any age, what's going to happen if you have a little going to happen if you have a little going to happen if you have a little ache and pain, but you have uh an ache and pain, but you have uh an ache and pain, but you have uh an appointment to go on a walk with a appointment to go on a walk with a appointment to go on a walk with a friend or uh go do a community service friend or uh go do a community service friend or uh go do a community service project in your neighborhood or go to project in your neighborhood or go to project in your neighborhood or go to the gym or go see a friend. These things the gym or go see a friend. These things the gym or go see a friend. These things that we know will improve your your your that we know will improve your your your that we know will improve your your your uh longevity. You're much more motivated uh longevity. You're much more motivated uh longevity. You're much more motivated to do these things to increase your to do these things to increase your to do these things to increase your lifespan when you have positive views of lifespan when you have positive views of lifespan when you have positive views of aging. You're taking care of a body that aging. You're taking care of a body that aging. You're taking care of a body that you believe can live longer. So your you believe can live longer. So your you believe can live longer. So your beliefs don't become your biology beliefs don't become your biology beliefs don't become your biology directly. Your beliefs become behaviors directly. Your beliefs become behaviors directly. Your beliefs become behaviors that then become your biology. There's that then become your biology. There's that then become your biology. There's another great example of this where they another great example of this where they another great example of this where they took true group of men and one of them took true group of men and one of them took true group of men and one of them they said just do your normal exercise they said just do your normal exercise they said just do your normal exercise routine. routine. routine. >> The other group they said we have a >> The other group they said we have a >> The other group they said we have a brand new steroid with no side effects brand new steroid with no side effects brand new steroid with no side effects and so we want you to we're going to and so we want you to we're going to and so we want you to we're going to enroll you in this clinical trial. We enroll you in this clinical trial. We enroll you in this clinical trial. We want you to take this steroid and then want you to take this steroid and then want you to take this steroid and then go exercise. Okay. Turns out that the go exercise. Okay. Turns out that the go exercise. Okay. Turns out that the steroid was just a placebo. There was steroid was just a placebo. There was steroid was just a placebo. There was nothing in the steroid, just a pill. nothing in the steroid, just a pill. nothing in the steroid, just a pill. Turns out that the men who believe they Turns out that the men who believe they Turns out that the men who believe they were taking a steroid, even though it were taking a steroid, even though it were taking a steroid, even though it was a placebo, gained more muscle and was a placebo, gained more muscle and was a placebo, gained more muscle and strength than the men who didn't take strength than the men who didn't take strength than the men who didn't take the the steroid that that they didn't the the steroid that that they didn't the the steroid that that they didn't know was a placebo. Why did that happen? know was a placebo. Why did that happen? know was a placebo. Why did that happen? It's not that [laughter] the placebo It's not that [laughter] the placebo It's not that [laughter] the placebo made them stronger and gained more made them stronger and gained more made them stronger and gained more muscle mass. It's that they subtly muscle mass. It's that they subtly muscle mass. It's that they subtly worked harder because they believe they worked harder because they believe they worked harder because they believe they were taking a steroid. They would push were taking a steroid. They would push were taking a steroid. They would push out another set. They would increase the out another set. They would increase the out another set. They would increase the weight a little bit. And so they got weight a little bit. And so they got weight a little bit. And so they got stronger because they believed they were stronger because they believed they were stronger because they believed they were supposed to get stronger. They supposed to get stronger. They supposed to get stronger. They anticipated something to happen and then anticipated something to happen and then anticipated something to happen and then it became true. And so that's how our it became true. And so that's how our it became true. And so that's how our beliefs become our biology. Not because beliefs become our biology. Not because beliefs become our biology. Not because of magic, but because it changes our of magic, but because it changes our of magic, but because it changes our behavior. behavior. behavior. I wonder what I wonder what I wonder what the current the current the current epidemic of ill health in our elderly epidemic of ill health in our elderly epidemic of ill health in our elderly populations populations populations are doing to are doing to are doing to children's view of aging today. children's view of aging today. children's view of aging today. Because I think if you probably compare Because I think if you probably compare Because I think if you probably compare the current generation the current generation the current generation to previous generations, to previous generations, to previous generations, yes, we're living longer or or many of yes, we're living longer or or many of yes, we're living longer or or many of us are living longer, but we're also us are living longer, but we're also us are living longer, but we're also living with with a lot of sickness living with with a lot of sickness living with with a lot of sickness >> and infirm and cognitive decline. >> and infirm and cognitive decline. >> and infirm and cognitive decline. >> And I wonder what that does to kids >> And I wonder what that does to kids >> And I wonder what that does to kids growing up if they're seeing that, if growing up if they're seeing that, if growing up if they're seeing that, if they're seeing elderly they're seeing elderly they're seeing elderly um infirmed grandparents, for example. um infirmed grandparents, for example. um infirmed grandparents, for example. >> Do you know what I mean? What what >> Do you know what I mean? What what >> Do you know what I mean? What what message is that? m message is that? m message is that? m >> imprinting in them. You know, you've >> imprinting in them. You know, you've >> imprinting in them. You know, you've shared some great studies from your shared some great studies from your shared some great studies from your book. I've also spoken before on this book. I've also spoken before on this book. I've also spoken before on this podcast about, you know, in cultures podcast about, you know, in cultures podcast about, you know, in cultures where you have a positive view of women where you have a positive view of women where you have a positive view of women aging, aging, aging, >> they have less menopausal symptoms. >> they have less menopausal symptoms. >> they have less menopausal symptoms. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Amazing, >> Amazing, >> Amazing, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> In certain tribes, there is a belief >> In certain tribes, there is a belief >> In certain tribes, there is a belief that as you get older, you become a that as you get older, you become a that as you get older, you become a faster runner, faster runner, faster runner, >> right? So, you don't believe you get >> right? So, you don't believe you get >> right? So, you don't believe you get slower as you age. The belief is that slower as you age. The belief is that slower as you age. The belief is that when you get to your 60s and your 70s, when you get to your 60s and your 70s, when you get to your 60s and your 70s, that's when you're a really fast and that's when you're a really fast and that's when you're a really fast and masterful runner. Amazing, masterful runner. Amazing, masterful runner. Amazing, >> right? So, what does that do to people >> right? So, what does that do to people >> right? So, what does that do to people as they get older? It's not that they as they get older? It's not that they as they get older? It's not that they slow down. It's like, hey, my best times slow down. It's like, hey, my best times slow down. It's like, hey, my best times >> are ahead. >> are ahead. >> are ahead. >> Are ahead. >> Are ahead. >> Are ahead. >> So, what does that do to your >> So, what does that do to your >> So, what does that do to your motivation? motivation? motivation? >> It increases your motivation to keep >> It increases your motivation to keep >> It increases your motivation to keep running. running. running. >> Yeah. And I really I would say in my >> Yeah. And I really I would say in my >> Yeah. And I really I would say in my life, one of the best examples of this life, one of the best examples of this life, one of the best examples of this is my mother-in-law, is my mother-in-law, is my mother-in-law, >> who's just a phenomenal can do person. I >> who's just a phenomenal can do person. I >> who's just a phenomenal can do person. I mean, she will literally mean, she will literally mean, she will literally She doesn't believe there's anything she She doesn't believe there's anything she She doesn't believe there's anything she cannot do. M and it's I I love it and I cannot do. M and it's I I love it and I cannot do. M and it's I I love it and I love that my children see this as an love that my children see this as an love that my children see this as an example of you know in your 70s you know example of you know in your 70s you know example of you know in your 70s you know she basically she basically she basically I did the London Marathon I think in I did the London Marathon I think in I did the London Marathon I think in 2021 2021 2021 >> and you know my wife my kids and and my >> and you know my wife my kids and and my >> and you know my wife my kids and and my wife's parents came down to London to wife's parents came down to London to wife's parents came down to London to support and my my mother-in-law support and my my mother-in-law support and my my mother-in-law basically I think saw someone in their basically I think saw someone in their basically I think saw someone in their 70s doing it and she's literally came 70s doing it and she's literally came 70s doing it and she's literally came back and started joining her local 5k back and started joining her local 5k back and started joining her local 5k park run. She thought well that person park run. She thought well that person park run. She thought well that person can do it so can I. And then for a can do it so can I. And then for a can do it so can I. And then for a period of time she was doing park run period of time she was doing park run period of time she was doing park run every week which is 5k every Saturday. every week which is 5k every Saturday. every week which is 5k every Saturday. So the whole idea that our beliefs have So the whole idea that our beliefs have So the whole idea that our beliefs have that much of an impact I think are that much of an impact I think are that much of an impact I think are absolutely massive and this is the absolutely massive and this is the absolutely massive and this is the antidote. This is exactly what we should antidote. This is exactly what we should antidote. This is exactly what we should do. We should, you know, when we are do. We should, you know, when we are do. We should, you know, when we are bombarded when on the news with all the bombarded when on the news with all the bombarded when on the news with all the death and suffering and uh people death and suffering and uh people death and suffering and uh people hurting each other and scamming each hurting each other and scamming each hurting each other and scamming each other and all the bad news, we look for other and all the bad news, we look for other and all the bad news, we look for that evidence because that's what the that evidence because that's what the that evidence because that's what the brain expects, right? And in reverse, brain expects, right? And in reverse, brain expects, right? And in reverse, when we have examples and we have these when we have examples and we have these when we have examples and we have these positive role models like, "Wow, look at positive role models like, "Wow, look at positive role models like, "Wow, look at that seven-year-old doing it. I can that seven-year-old doing it. I can that seven-year-old doing it. I can too." The same becomes true. And this is too." The same becomes true. And this is too." The same becomes true. And this is exactly the point that based on what we exactly the point that based on what we exactly the point that based on what we see it informs what we anticipate we can see it informs what we anticipate we can see it informs what we anticipate we can do and therefore that enhances our do and therefore that enhances our do and therefore that enhances our agency all based on beliefs. agency all based on beliefs. agency all based on beliefs. >> This whole second power of beliefs which >> This whole second power of beliefs which >> This whole second power of beliefs which is about anticipation we can also I is about anticipation we can also I is about anticipation we can also I guess call it expectation. That's right. guess call it expectation. That's right. guess call it expectation. That's right. Right. Right. Right. >> There was such a powerful example you >> There was such a powerful example you >> There was such a powerful example you shared about I think was it Mr. A and shared about I think was it Mr. A and shared about I think was it Mr. A and the overdose. So the overdose. So the overdose. So >> you just mentioned the placebo. Is this >> you just mentioned the placebo. Is this >> you just mentioned the placebo. Is this the noibo? the noibo? the noibo? >> That's right. And so this this has to do >> That's right. And so this this has to do >> That's right. And so this this has to do with um how our beliefs can limit what with um how our beliefs can limit what with um how our beliefs can limit what we think we are able to do. So here's we think we are able to do. So here's we think we are able to do. So here's what happens. So Mr. A, he's anonymized what happens. So Mr. A, he's anonymized what happens. So Mr. A, he's anonymized in the in the psychology study. Mr. A in the in the psychology study. Mr. A in the in the psychology study. Mr. A has a terrible breakup with his has a terrible breakup with his has a terrible breakup with his girlfriend and he decides that he wants girlfriend and he decides that he wants girlfriend and he decides that he wants to end his life. So he finds a a pill to end his life. So he finds a a pill to end his life. So he finds a a pill jar of anti-depressants and he takes the jar of anti-depressants and he takes the jar of anti-depressants and he takes the entire bottle of pills and he's he's he entire bottle of pills and he's he's he entire bottle of pills and he's he's he decides that's it. This is the end. As decides that's it. This is the end. As decides that's it. This is the end. As soon as he flushes down all these pills, soon as he flushes down all these pills, soon as he flushes down all these pills, he swallows them. He has a change of he swallows them. He has a change of he swallows them. He has a change of heart and he decides he wants to live heart and he decides he wants to live heart and he decides he wants to live after all. He rushes to the neighbor's after all. He rushes to the neighbor's after all. He rushes to the neighbor's house. He tells them, "I took all my house. He tells them, "I took all my house. He tells them, "I took all my pills. Please take me to the hospital pills. Please take me to the hospital pills. Please take me to the hospital right away." They rush him to the right away." They rush him to the right away." They rush him to the emergency room. When he gets there, he's emergency room. When he gets there, he's emergency room. When he gets there, he's slipping in and out of consciousness. He slipping in and out of consciousness. He slipping in and out of consciousness. He collapses on the floor and he manages to collapses on the floor and he manages to collapses on the floor and he manages to tell the nurses, "I took all my pills. I tell the nurses, "I took all my pills. I tell the nurses, "I took all my pills. I took all my pills." They rush him into took all my pills." They rush him into took all my pills." They rush him into the operating room. They're trying to the operating room. They're trying to the operating room. They're trying to figure out what he's taken so that they figure out what he's taken so that they figure out what he's taken so that they can so they can cure him from this can so they can cure him from this can so they can cure him from this overdose. And they look on the pill jar, overdose. And they look on the pill jar, overdose. And they look on the pill jar, and the pill jar has a phone number on and the pill jar has a phone number on and the pill jar has a phone number on it. It doesn't say what the it. It doesn't say what the it. It doesn't say what the anti-depressants are. Meanwhile, by the anti-depressants are. Meanwhile, by the anti-depressants are. Meanwhile, by the way, his heart rate is plummeting. His way, his heart rate is plummeting. His way, his heart rate is plummeting. His blood pressure is dangerously low. And blood pressure is dangerously low. And blood pressure is dangerously low. And they're frantically trying to figure out they're frantically trying to figure out they're frantically trying to figure out what did he take. They call this phone what did he take. They call this phone what did he take. They call this phone number. And it turns out that Mr. A was number. And it turns out that Mr. A was number. And it turns out that Mr. A was in a clinical trial for these in a clinical trial for these in a clinical trial for these anti-depressants. And he had been placed anti-depressants. And he had been placed anti-depressants. And he had been placed in the control group. He hadn't taken in the control group. He hadn't taken in the control group. He hadn't taken the anti-depressants at all. In fact, he the anti-depressants at all. In fact, he the anti-depressants at all. In fact, he was in the placebo group. So, he had was in the placebo group. So, he had was in the placebo group. So, he had swallowed an entire bottle of an inert swallowed an entire bottle of an inert swallowed an entire bottle of an inert substance. It was just a placebo. And substance. It was just a placebo. And substance. It was just a placebo. And yet he was showing these physiological yet he was showing these physiological yet he was showing these physiological symptoms. He was slipping in and out of symptoms. He was slipping in and out of symptoms. He was slipping in and out of consciousness. His heart uh rate was consciousness. His heart uh rate was consciousness. His heart uh rate was falling. His blood pressure was falling. His blood pressure was falling. His blood pressure was dangerously low. He was exhibiting all dangerously low. He was exhibiting all dangerously low. He was exhibiting all the signs of an overdose. They tell Mr. the signs of an overdose. They tell Mr. the signs of an overdose. They tell Mr. A this that, "Hey buddy, you were in the A this that, "Hey buddy, you were in the A this that, "Hey buddy, you were in the placebo group. Nothing in what you just placebo group. Nothing in what you just placebo group. Nothing in what you just took could have caused these symptoms." took could have caused these symptoms." took could have caused these symptoms." Within 15 minutes, his heart rate and Within 15 minutes, his heart rate and Within 15 minutes, his heart rate and his blood pressure stabilize. He's fully his blood pressure stabilize. He's fully his blood pressure stabilize. He's fully awake. He walks out of the hospital. awake. He walks out of the hospital. awake. He walks out of the hospital. Maybe a bit embarrassed, but totally Maybe a bit embarrassed, but totally Maybe a bit embarrassed, but totally fine. Now, why do I tell this story? fine. Now, why do I tell this story? fine. Now, why do I tell this story? What does it demonstrate? It shows you What does it demonstrate? It shows you What does it demonstrate? It shows you how your labels can become your limits how your labels can become your limits how your labels can become your limits and why we have to be very very careful and why we have to be very very careful and why we have to be very very careful of of of believing what we what we are of of of believing what we what we are of of of believing what we what we are able to do, what we can become. Because able to do, what we can become. Because able to do, what we can become. Because if Mr. A through believing that he was if Mr. A through believing that he was if Mr. A through believing that he was overdosing started showing these overdosing started showing these overdosing started showing these physiological symptoms, what else does physiological symptoms, what else does physiological symptoms, what else does that mean? Actually, it's funny. On the that mean? Actually, it's funny. On the that mean? Actually, it's funny. On the way over, uh, a colleague of mine, uh, way over, uh, a colleague of mine, uh, way over, uh, a colleague of mine, uh, we were talking about coffee, how she's we were talking about coffee, how she's we were talking about coffee, how she's never had coffee because one time she never had coffee because one time she never had coffee because one time she had coffee and she couldn't sleep for 3 had coffee and she couldn't sleep for 3 had coffee and she couldn't sleep for 3 days. Well, we we know factually that days. Well, we we know factually that days. Well, we we know factually that caffeine, you know, exits your system in caffeine, you know, exits your system in caffeine, you know, exits your system in what, 12 to 24 hours. There's no way you what, 12 to 24 hours. There's no way you what, 12 to 24 hours. There's no way you couldn't have sleep. couldn't have sleep. couldn't have sleep. >> What is that? That's the noibo effect. >> What is that? That's the noibo effect. >> What is that? That's the noibo effect. And so, just like these pills or coffee, And so, just like these pills or coffee, And so, just like these pills or coffee, we we create these symptoms in our mind we we create these symptoms in our mind we we create these symptoms in our mind from all kinds of di self-dagnoses. from all kinds of di self-dagnoses. from all kinds of di self-dagnoses. >> Yeah, it's so powerful on that example. >> Yeah, it's so powerful on that example. >> Yeah, it's so powerful on that example. there. there. there. What do you think was going on? Because What do you think was going on? Because What do you think was going on? Because you're making the case in the book that you're making the case in the book that you're making the case in the book that the reason belief the reason belief the reason belief is so powerful when it comes to is so powerful when it comes to is so powerful when it comes to expectation is not because belief has a expectation is not because belief has a expectation is not because belief has a magical quality on our mitochondria. magical quality on our mitochondria. magical quality on our mitochondria. It's because the belief changes your It's because the belief changes your It's because the belief changes your action. Right? action. Right? action. Right? So, you know, if you believe you can get So, you know, if you believe you can get So, you know, if you believe you can get stronger and be really active and mobile stronger and be really active and mobile stronger and be really active and mobile in your 70s and 80s, in your 70s and 80s, in your 70s and 80s, you're going to do more. You're going to you're going to do more. You're going to you're going to do more. You're going to walk more. You're going to go to the gym walk more. You're going to go to the gym walk more. You're going to go to the gym or you going to, "Yeah, I'm not slowing or you going to, "Yeah, I'm not slowing or you going to, "Yeah, I'm not slowing down cuz I'm getting older. I know I can down cuz I'm getting older. I know I can down cuz I'm getting older. I know I can get strong as I get older." But I guess get strong as I get older." But I guess get strong as I get older." But I guess the reverse is happening here, isn't it? the reverse is happening here, isn't it? the reverse is happening here, isn't it? The guy hadn't actually The guy hadn't actually The guy hadn't actually taken the pill yet. His physiology was taken the pill yet. His physiology was taken the pill yet. His physiology was changing. What do you think might be changing. What do you think might be changing. What do you think might be going on there? Because he anticipated going on there? Because he anticipated going on there? Because he anticipated what was going to happen, right? So, he what was going to happen, right? So, he what was going to happen, right? So, he became hyperfixated on the symptoms. You became hyperfixated on the symptoms. You became hyperfixated on the symptoms. You probably, you know, this is this is what probably, you know, this is this is what probably, you know, this is this is what happens with chronic pain. It's very happens with chronic pain. It's very happens with chronic pain. It's very similar is that there's with chronic similar is that there's with chronic similar is that there's with chronic pain. So chronic pain is defined as uh pain. So chronic pain is defined as uh pain. So chronic pain is defined as uh uh pain that does not have a physical uh pain that does not have a physical uh pain that does not have a physical source. After 6 months, you still have source. After 6 months, you still have source. After 6 months, you still have that pain. And when we can't determine that pain. And when we can't determine that pain. And when we can't determine what what else is causing that that that what what else is causing that that that what what else is causing that that that pain. Uh and so what's happening is a pain. Uh and so what's happening is a pain. Uh and so what's happening is a hyper focusing of attention, the first hyper focusing of attention, the first hyper focusing of attention, the first power of belief where you're looking for power of belief where you're looking for power of belief where you're looking for any kind of pain signals and then you're any kind of pain signals and then you're any kind of pain signals and then you're amplifying your awareness of that amplifying your awareness of that amplifying your awareness of that signal. So the brain, you know, back to signal. So the brain, you know, back to signal. So the brain, you know, back to that little pinhole of attention, the that little pinhole of attention, the that little pinhole of attention, the brain can focus on whatever you're brain can focus on whatever you're brain can focus on whatever you're paying attention to. And so that's what paying attention to. And so that's what paying attention to. And so that's what you see. That became an interpretation you see. That became an interpretation you see. That became an interpretation of his internal bodily state of his of his internal bodily state of his of his internal bodily state of his feelings. And then he was confirming feelings. And then he was confirming feelings. And then he was confirming that the more he felt it, the more he that the more he felt it, the more he that the more he felt it, the more he said it, the more he became sick. It said it, the more he became sick. It said it, the more he became sick. It became evidence that it was true. And so became evidence that it was true. And so became evidence that it was true. And so this is what we call in um pain this is what we call in um pain this is what we call in um pain reprocessing therapy. It's called the reprocessing therapy. It's called the reprocessing therapy. It's called the fear pain fear cycle. fear pain fear cycle. fear pain fear cycle. >> Yeah. that the more afra and by the way >> Yeah. that the more afra and by the way >> Yeah. that the more afra and by the way fear is always at the heart of all of fear is always at the heart of all of fear is always at the heart of all of these limiting beliefs these limiting beliefs these limiting beliefs >> it's always about fear that fear >> it's always about fear that fear >> it's always about fear that fear amplifies pain which becomes real all amplifies pain which becomes real all amplifies pain which becomes real all pain is real pain is real pain is real >> I'm not saying that pain is fake all >> I'm not saying that pain is fake all >> I'm not saying that pain is fake all pain is real and all pain is in the pain is real and all pain is in the pain is real and all pain is in the brain brain brain >> pain isn't here pain isn't here pain >> pain isn't here pain isn't here pain >> pain isn't here pain isn't here pain isn't here pain's in the brain it's isn't here pain's in the brain it's isn't here pain's in the brain it's signal signal signal >> and so what happens when we are afraid >> and so what happens when we are afraid >> and so what happens when we are afraid of something it creates it causes us to of something it creates it causes us to of something it creates it causes us to hyperfocus on that on that information hyperfocus on that on that information hyperfocus on that on that information which cause us to pay attention, amplify which cause us to pay attention, amplify which cause us to pay attention, amplify the pain which creates more suffering the pain which creates more suffering the pain which creates more suffering and then we become more afraid of it. and then we become more afraid of it. and then we become more afraid of it. And so this is exactly the cycle of And so this is exactly the cycle of And so this is exactly the cycle of chronic pain as well. chronic pain as well. chronic pain as well. >> Yeah, for sure. I had Howard Schuber on >> Yeah, for sure. I had Howard Schuber on >> Yeah, for sure. I had Howard Schuber on the show maybe 3 years ago. who's coming the show maybe 3 years ago. who's coming the show maybe 3 years ago. who's coming back on in a few weeks and back on in a few weeks and back on in a few weeks and >> he's done a lot of the research on pain >> he's done a lot of the research on pain >> he's done a lot of the research on pain reprocessing therapy and we went deep reprocessing therapy and we went deep reprocessing therapy and we went deep into chronic pain and how into chronic pain and how into chronic pain and how >> as you say all pain is real but pain is >> as you say all pain is real but pain is >> as you say all pain is real but pain is created in the brain created in the brain created in the brain >> and you know you mentioned before with >> and you know you mentioned before with >> and you know you mentioned before with uh hypnotherapy didn't you hypnosed uh hypnotherapy didn't you hypnosed uh hypnotherapy didn't you hypnosed >> you can go into an operation and not >> you can go into an operation and not >> you can go into an operation and not really experience the pain right but really experience the pain right but really experience the pain right but someone else who had not done that someone else who had not done that someone else who had not done that training would absolutely be training would absolutely be training would absolutely be experiencing the pain experiencing the pain experiencing the pain >> and in fact they feel pain where it >> and in fact they feel pain where it >> and in fact they feel pain where it doesn't exist So just like pain is not doesn't exist So just like pain is not doesn't exist So just like pain is not necessarily suffering, necessarily suffering, necessarily suffering, >> sickness is not illness. Those are two >> sickness is not illness. Those are two >> sickness is not illness. Those are two separate things that sickness is in the separate things that sickness is in the separate things that sickness is in the body but illness is in the mind. body but illness is in the mind. body but illness is in the mind. Even though you know it's it's Even though you know it's it's Even though you know it's it's fascinating. We spend about 80% of fascinating. We spend about 80% of fascinating. We spend about 80% of healthcare spending is taking care of healthcare spending is taking care of healthcare spending is taking care of the symptoms is the illness is where 80% the symptoms is the illness is where 80% the symptoms is the illness is where 80% of our healthcare spending goes. It's of our healthcare spending goes. It's of our healthcare spending goes. It's only 20% towards the actual physical only 20% towards the actual physical only 20% towards the actual physical maladies. maladies. maladies. >> Yeah, I want to talk about that >> Yeah, I want to talk about that >> Yeah, I want to talk about that actually. Just want to finish off on actually. Just want to finish off on actually. Just want to finish off on what you're talking about with the I what you're talking about with the I what you're talking about with the I guess the biology of belief. And you guess the biology of belief. And you guess the biology of belief. And you talk about research from is it Dr. Levy talk about research from is it Dr. Levy talk about research from is it Dr. Levy Levy um you you basically say here in Levy um you you basically say here in Levy um you you basically say here in that chapter which I found remarkable. that chapter which I found remarkable. that chapter which I found remarkable. Levi's research has consistently shown Levi's research has consistently shown Levi's research has consistently shown that how we think about aging affects that how we think about aging affects that how we think about aging affects how we age and this happens through how we age and this happens through how we age and this happens through multiple pathways. cognitive multiple pathways. cognitive multiple pathways. cognitive functioning, cardiovascular health, functioning, cardiovascular health, functioning, cardiovascular health, recovery from disability, preventive recovery from disability, preventive recovery from disability, preventive health behaviors, and you know, people health behaviors, and you know, people health behaviors, and you know, people want more detail, they can read it in want more detail, they can read it in want more detail, they can read it in the book, but it it's truly fascinating the book, but it it's truly fascinating the book, but it it's truly fascinating how important our beliefs are when it how important our beliefs are when it how important our beliefs are when it comes to our health. comes to our health. comes to our health. >> Yeah. But what's so frustrating and I I >> Yeah. But what's so frustrating and I I >> Yeah. But what's so frustrating and I I think this is um this is what I still think this is um this is what I still think this is um this is what I still struggle with is that when people hear struggle with is that when people hear struggle with is that when people hear this, this, this, there's an immediate wall that goes up there's an immediate wall that goes up there's an immediate wall that goes up because the way limiting beliefs work because the way limiting beliefs work because the way limiting beliefs work because of the brain's penchant for because of the brain's penchant for because of the brain's penchant for passivity because it's constantly trying passivity because it's constantly trying passivity because it's constantly trying to drag us back into what we always did. to drag us back into what we always did. to drag us back into what we always did. There's this immediate reflex of, "Yeah, There's this immediate reflex of, "Yeah, There's this immediate reflex of, "Yeah, but that's not going to work for me." but that's not going to work for me." but that's not going to work for me." >> Right? That I guarantee you people >> Right? That I guarantee you people >> Right? That I guarantee you people listening to this right now are listening to this right now are listening to this right now are thinking, "Yeah, that's all fine, but I thinking, "Yeah, that's all fine, but I thinking, "Yeah, that's all fine, but I have a special condition. I'm a special have a special condition. I'm a special have a special condition. I'm a special case." because their brain is case." because their brain is case." because their brain is desperately getting them to not change desperately getting them to not change desperately getting them to not change their mind. And that's what I would their mind. And that's what I would their mind. And that's what I would encourage people to to dive into that encourage people to to dive into that encourage people to to dive into that that if you feel that resistance, if you that if you feel that resistance, if you that if you feel that resistance, if you feel that that notion of no no, the feel that that notion of no no, the feel that that notion of no no, the condition preventing me from trying a condition preventing me from trying a condition preventing me from trying a new perspective is a fact, new perspective is a fact, new perspective is a fact, even more reason to dive into this power even more reason to dive into this power even more reason to dive into this power of belief that that it probably is way of belief that that it probably is way of belief that that it probably is way more malleable than you think. And the more malleable than you think. And the more malleable than you think. And the nice thing is it's something you can try nice thing is it's something you can try nice thing is it's something you can try on. Yeah. It's it's like when you go to on. Yeah. It's it's like when you go to on. Yeah. It's it's like when you go to a shoe store, you don't walk into a shoe a shoe store, you don't walk into a shoe a shoe store, you don't walk into a shoe store with the same pair of shoes and store with the same pair of shoes and store with the same pair of shoes and leave. No, you you try on a new pair of leave. No, you you try on a new pair of leave. No, you you try on a new pair of shoes. You see if there's something that shoes. You see if there's something that shoes. You see if there's something that might fit better for you. Uh and it might fit better for you. Uh and it might fit better for you. Uh and it turns out that not only does it increase turns out that not only does it increase turns out that not only does it increase decrease physical suffering, it does decrease physical suffering, it does decrease physical suffering, it does increase uh uh cognitive abilities. increase uh uh cognitive abilities. increase uh uh cognitive abilities. There's so much that changing your There's so much that changing your There's so much that changing your beliefs can can do for you. beliefs can can do for you. beliefs can can do for you. >> As a doctor, >> As a doctor, >> As a doctor, I have thought for many years about the I have thought for many years about the I have thought for many years about the pros and cons of labels. pros and cons of labels. pros and cons of labels. And And And you do have this section in your book you do have this section in your book you do have this section in your book entitled Labels Are Your Limits. entitled Labels Are Your Limits. entitled Labels Are Your Limits. You've touched on this a little bit You've touched on this a little bit You've touched on this a little bit already, but I really want to explore already, but I really want to explore already, but I really want to explore this topic because I I think labels, this topic because I I think labels, this topic because I I think labels, as you can call them, diagnosis if you as you can call them, diagnosis if you as you can call them, diagnosis if you want through the lens of health want through the lens of health want through the lens of health can be a double-edged sword. can be a double-edged sword. can be a double-edged sword. They can be liberating and empowering They can be liberating and empowering They can be liberating and empowering or they can be entrapping. or they can be entrapping. or they can be entrapping. >> So can you speak to this idea because I >> So can you speak to this idea because I >> So can you speak to this idea because I think it's a for particularly for my think it's a for particularly for my think it's a for particularly for my audience I think this is huge. audience I think this is huge. audience I think this is huge. >> Yeah. So I think there's a few there a >> Yeah. So I think there's a few there a >> Yeah. So I think there's a few there a few confluencing events that I think are few confluencing events that I think are few confluencing events that I think are are subtly harming us. One is that I are subtly harming us. One is that I are subtly harming us. One is that I think um think um think um we have this explosion in diagnosis and we have this explosion in diagnosis and we have this explosion in diagnosis and there's there was a medical professional there's there was a medical professional there's there was a medical professional I talked to for the book who said you I talked to for the book who said you I talked to for the book who said you know one day medical science will know one day medical science will know one day medical science will advance to the point where everyone is advance to the point where everyone is advance to the point where everyone is sick sick sick and I think we're getting to that stage and I think we're getting to that stage and I think we're getting to that stage that even today it turns out that the that even today it turns out that the that even today it turns out that the majority of Britain's are neurode majority of Britain's are neurode majority of Britain's are neurode divergent the majority divergent the majority divergent the majority [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] between ADHD and uh OCD and all the between ADHD and uh OCD and all the between ADHD and uh OCD and all the different diagnoses we have. Now, that's different diagnoses we have. Now, that's different diagnoses we have. Now, that's not a knock-on diagnosis. It's it's a not a knock-on diagnosis. It's it's a not a knock-on diagnosis. It's it's a questioning of where is the check and questioning of where is the check and questioning of where is the check and balance because, you know, I have ADHD. balance because, you know, I have ADHD. balance because, you know, I have ADHD. I've been diagnosed with ADHD. I've been diagnosed with ADHD. I've been diagnosed with ADHD. It wasn't a blood test. It wasn't an MRI It wasn't a blood test. It wasn't an MRI It wasn't a blood test. It wasn't an MRI study. It was a questionnaire. And that study. It was a questionnaire. And that study. It was a questionnaire. And that questionnaire asked me completely questionnaire asked me completely questionnaire asked me completely subjective questions. How often you're subjective questions. How often you're subjective questions. How often you're on a Lyker scale? How often do you on a Lyker scale? How often do you on a Lyker scale? How often do you experience distraction experience distraction experience distraction compared to who compared to who compared to who >> exactly? How do I know that I experience >> exactly? How do I know that I experience >> exactly? How do I know that I experience distraction more than you do? Well, I distraction more than you do? Well, I distraction more than you do? Well, I look for this confluence of of symptoms look for this confluence of of symptoms look for this confluence of of symptoms and then I have a five-point scale and and then I have a five-point scale and and then I have a five-point scale and then you have a diagnosis. Now, I'm not then you have a diagnosis. Now, I'm not then you have a diagnosis. Now, I'm not anti- diagnosis per se. They can be anti- diagnosis per se. They can be anti- diagnosis per se. They can be incredibly empowering. In fact, there's incredibly empowering. In fact, there's incredibly empowering. In fact, there's what's called the Rumple Still Skin what's called the Rumple Still Skin what's called the Rumple Still Skin effect. You remember the fairy tale of effect. You remember the fairy tale of effect. You remember the fairy tale of Rumple Still Skin where the the princess Rumple Still Skin where the the princess Rumple Still Skin where the the princess has to name the the little gremlin in has to name the the little gremlin in has to name the the little gremlin in order for her to overcome the the order for her to overcome the the order for her to overcome the the challenge. And we have to be cognizant challenge. And we have to be cognizant challenge. And we have to be cognizant of this that we love this rumple still of this that we love this rumple still of this that we love this rumple still skin effect that when I was diagnosed skin effect that when I was diagnosed skin effect that when I was diagnosed with ADHD what a weight off my shoulders with ADHD what a weight off my shoulders with ADHD what a weight off my shoulders you see all these struggles I've had now you see all these struggles I've had now you see all these struggles I've had now I have an explanation this is the reason I have an explanation this is the reason I have an explanation this is the reason I've been struggling but there's a I've been struggling but there's a I've been struggling but there's a downside there's a cost and the cost was downside there's a cost and the cost was downside there's a cost and the cost was that every time I was distracted every that every time I was distracted every that every time I was distracted every time my mind went off track I time my mind went off track I time my mind went off track I immediately thought to myself there's my immediately thought to myself there's my immediately thought to myself there's my ADHD there's my chronic condition ADHD there's my chronic condition ADHD there's my chronic condition and I would starting imidating. Again, and I would starting imidating. Again, and I would starting imidating. Again, fear. Fear would cause me to say, "Well, fear. Fear would cause me to say, "Well, fear. Fear would cause me to say, "Well, if I if this ADHD I can't get under if I if this ADHD I can't get under if I if this ADHD I can't get under control, maybe I need a new treatment control, maybe I need a new treatment control, maybe I need a new treatment regimen. Maybe I if I if I can't meet my regimen. Maybe I if I if I can't meet my regimen. Maybe I if I if I can't meet my deadline, what are my editors going to deadline, what are my editors going to deadline, what are my editors going to say? And if I can't get on, you know, I say? And if I can't get on, you know, I say? And if I can't get on, you know, I I would start working myself up into a I would start working myself up into a I would start working myself up into a frenzy over something that was just a frenzy over something that was just a frenzy over something that was just a belief that this was something I could belief that this was something I could belief that this was something I could never escape." You see, what I've never escape." You see, what I've never escape." You see, what I've learned about diagnoses is that learned about diagnoses is that learned about diagnoses is that diagnoses are map. It's a map. You're diagnoses are map. It's a map. You're diagnoses are map. It's a map. You're here and you're trying to get there. And here and you're trying to get there. And here and you're trying to get there. And so, there are many paths in order for so, there are many paths in order for so, there are many paths in order for you to get there. what I was doing and I you to get there. what I was doing and I you to get there. what I was doing and I think what many people do. I took my think what many people do. I took my think what many people do. I took my diagnosis to mean that I was the map. diagnosis to mean that I was the map. diagnosis to mean that I was the map. I'm not the map. I'm using a map as a I'm not the map. I'm using a map as a I'm not the map. I'm using a map as a tool. And so today, I don't when I get tool. And so today, I don't when I get tool. And so today, I don't when I get distracted, who who doesn't get distracted, who who doesn't get distracted, who who doesn't get distracted these days? Everybody gets distracted these days? Everybody gets distracted these days? Everybody gets distracted from time to time. Instead, distracted from time to time. Instead, distracted from time to time. Instead, it's not there's my ADHD, a chronic it's not there's my ADHD, a chronic it's not there's my ADHD, a chronic condition which I will always have and condition which I will always have and condition which I will always have and never get rid of. No, I'm learning a never get rid of. No, I'm learning a never get rid of. No, I'm learning a skill. skill. skill. I'm learning a skill. I'm learning a skill. I'm learning a skill. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> that's it. I'm learning a skill. And >> that's it. I'm learning a skill. And >> that's it. I'm learning a skill. And that's and maybe I'm starting at a place that's and maybe I'm starting at a place that's and maybe I'm starting at a place where other people are far ahead of me. where other people are far ahead of me. where other people are far ahead of me. Okay, so what? There's probably things Okay, so what? There's probably things Okay, so what? There's probably things that I'm way better at. Let me prove it that I'm way better at. Let me prove it that I'm way better at. Let me prove it to you. I've written three bestsellers to you. I've written three bestsellers to you. I've written three bestsellers >> with ADHD. Why? Because it's not that I >> with ADHD. Why? Because it's not that I >> with ADHD. Why? Because it's not that I always get distracted because of this always get distracted because of this always get distracted because of this chronic brain condition. It's that when chronic brain condition. It's that when chronic brain condition. It's that when I'm interested in something, I'm I'm interested in something, I'm I'm interested in something, I'm hyperfixated on it. I love it. You can't hyperfixated on it. I love it. You can't hyperfixated on it. I love it. You can't pull me away. And that's why I can focus pull me away. And that's why I can focus pull me away. And that's why I can focus long enough for things I enjoy. long enough for things I enjoy. long enough for things I enjoy. >> Yeah. Is it is it liberating or >> Yeah. Is it is it liberating or >> Yeah. Is it is it liberating or limiting? limiting? limiting? >> Exactly. Right. Exactly. you would >> Exactly. Right. Exactly. you would >> Exactly. Right. Exactly. you would actually probably really enjoy. There's actually probably really enjoy. There's actually probably really enjoy. There's a book called The Age of Diagnosis by a book called The Age of Diagnosis by a book called The Age of Diagnosis by the neurologist, the British neur I the neurologist, the British neur I the neurologist, the British neur I think she's British, think she's British, think she's British, was she Irish? I can't remember now. The was she Irish? I can't remember now. The was she Irish? I can't remember now. The neurologist, Dr. Susan O. Sullivan, she neurologist, Dr. Susan O. Sullivan, she neurologist, Dr. Susan O. Sullivan, she came on the show maybe a year ago or so. came on the show maybe a year ago or so. came on the show maybe a year ago or so. And she writes a whole book on on this And she writes a whole book on on this And she writes a whole book on on this topic of, you know, the the the age of topic of, you know, the the the age of topic of, you know, the the the age of diagnosis in which we're living. But diagnosis in which we're living. But diagnosis in which we're living. But Suzanne asks the question Suzanne asks the question Suzanne asks the question or Suzanne thinks one way we can look at or Suzanne thinks one way we can look at or Suzanne thinks one way we can look at this is to ask ourselves is the this is to ask ourselves is the this is to ask ourselves is the diagnosis helping me. I think it's diagnosis helping me. I think it's diagnosis helping me. I think it's beautifully simple. It might be that beautifully simple. It might be that beautifully simple. It might be that actually you've spent 10 years actually you've spent 10 years actually you've spent 10 years struggling with your health, not knowing struggling with your health, not knowing struggling with your health, not knowing what you have and then finally someone what you have and then finally someone what you have and then finally someone gives you a diagnosis and that feels, gives you a diagnosis and that feels, gives you a diagnosis and that feels, you know, I knew it. I knew I had you know, I knew it. I knew I had you know, I knew it. I knew I had something. And you know it it it feels something. And you know it it it feels something. And you know it it it feels very reassuring very reassuring very reassuring >> you know and it may help you access >> you know and it may help you access >> you know and it may help you access certain treatments certain treatments certain treatments >> and also beware because certain >> and also beware because certain >> and also beware because certain diagnosis diagnosis diagnosis >> can become a new prison for you to live >> can become a new prison for you to live >> can become a new prison for you to live in and you see everything in the world in and you see everything in the world in and you see everything in the world through that belief the belief that that through that belief the belief that that through that belief the belief that that diagnosis is you. diagnosis is you. diagnosis is you. >> That's right. So what we want to be >> That's right. So what we want to be >> That's right. So what we want to be careful of is called identity careful of is called identity careful of is called identity foreclosure. foreclosure. foreclosure. >> That when we believe that we are a >> That when we believe that we are a >> That when we believe that we are a certain kind of person we should be very certain kind of person we should be very certain kind of person we should be very very careful of that. I mean, this is very careful of that. I mean, this is very careful of that. I mean, this is why uh we don't call people addicts why uh we don't call people addicts why uh we don't call people addicts anymore. We don't say addicts. We say anymore. We don't say addicts. We say anymore. We don't say addicts. We say people struggling with impulse control people struggling with impulse control people struggling with impulse control because you don't want people to think, because you don't want people to think, because you don't want people to think, well, that's who I am. That's that's the well, that's who I am. That's that's the well, that's who I am. That's that's the mold. Because you can change your mold. Because you can change your mold. Because you can change your behavior. People have a really tough behavior. People have a really tough behavior. People have a really tough time changing who they are. They think time changing who they are. They think time changing who they are. They think that those are immutable traits. So, we that those are immutable traits. So, we that those are immutable traits. So, we don't need that language in our lives. don't need that language in our lives. don't need that language in our lives. We don't need to believe that we are a We don't need to believe that we are a We don't need to believe that we are a diagnosis. If it's not serving you, you diagnosis. If it's not serving you, you diagnosis. If it's not serving you, you can change. can change. can change. >> Lies can become reality. You write about >> Lies can become reality. You write about >> Lies can become reality. You write about Serena Williams and it's Serena Williams and it's Serena Williams and it's It's a beautiful story It's a beautiful story It's a beautiful story >> which really speaks to the power of >> which really speaks to the power of >> which really speaks to the power of beliefs and expectation, beliefs and expectation, beliefs and expectation, but I guess it's a story that's but I guess it's a story that's but I guess it's a story that's worthwhile going through worthwhile going through worthwhile going through because because because some could interpret it as, you know, some could interpret it as, you know, some could interpret it as, you know, fake it until you make it, right? fake it until you make it, right? fake it until you make it, right? [clears throat] So tell the story of [clears throat] So tell the story of [clears throat] So tell the story of Serena and then let's just unpick what Serena and then let's just unpick what Serena and then let's just unpick what we can learn from it. we can learn from it. we can learn from it. >> Sure. So Serena Williams at Wilmington >> Sure. So Serena Williams at Wilmington >> Sure. So Serena Williams at Wilmington and she's having a really tough time and she's having a really tough time and she's having a really tough time that year. And the problem is in that that year. And the problem is in that that year. And the problem is in that year's Wimbledon, the problem was that year's Wimbledon, the problem was that year's Wimbledon, the problem was that she wasn't rushing the net that she she wasn't rushing the net that she she wasn't rushing the net that she every she was was getting in her head every she was was getting in her head every she was was getting in her head too much and somehow she she lost too much and somehow she she lost too much and somehow she she lost confidence in rushing the net. And when confidence in rushing the net. And when confidence in rushing the net. And when you don't rush the net, you know, you don't rush the net, you know, you don't rush the net, you know, milliseconds count and you lose points milliseconds count and you lose points milliseconds count and you lose points and she was doing very badly. and she was doing very badly. and she was doing very badly. Then her coach Patrick Montagloo takes Then her coach Patrick Montagloo takes Then her coach Patrick Montagloo takes her side and says, "Serena, look, I her side and says, "Serena, look, I her side and says, "Serena, look, I looked at the statistics and it says looked at the statistics and it says looked at the statistics and it says here that when you rush the net, 80% of here that when you rush the net, 80% of here that when you rush the net, 80% of the time you score a point. It's the the time you score a point. It's the the time you score a point. It's the best news of the day." Amazing. She best news of the day." Amazing. She best news of the day." Amazing. She says, "Well, really? I I thought I says, "Well, really? I I thought I says, "Well, really? I I thought I sucked at the net." He says, "Well, you sucked at the net." He says, "Well, you sucked at the net." He says, "Well, you know, look, the statistics don't lie." know, look, the statistics don't lie." know, look, the statistics don't lie." And it's true. Statistics don't lie. And it's true. Statistics don't lie. And it's true. Statistics don't lie. >> And just can I just pause you there just >> And just can I just pause you there just >> And just can I just pause you there just for a minute? So, it's basically that for a minute? So, it's basically that for a minute? So, it's basically that she was going through a bit of a rough she was going through a bit of a rough she was going through a bit of a rough patch. patch. patch. >> Mh. She believed that she wasn't rushing >> Mh. She believed that she wasn't rushing >> Mh. She believed that she wasn't rushing the net. the net. the net. >> Patrick, her coach, also saw that she >> Patrick, her coach, also saw that she >> Patrick, her coach, also saw that she wasn't rushing the net. wasn't rushing the net. wasn't rushing the net. >> But Patrick told her that the statistics >> But Patrick told her that the statistics >> But Patrick told her that the statistics say that you are rushing the net and say that you are rushing the net and say that you are rushing the net and you're doing well when you do. you're doing well when you do. you're doing well when you do. >> He was telling her that when she rushes >> He was telling her that when she rushes >> He was telling her that when she rushes the net, he wanted her to rush the net the net, he wanted her to rush the net the net, he wanted her to rush the net more, but she was limiting herself. She more, but she was limiting herself. She more, but she was limiting herself. She was holding herself back. So he said, was holding herself back. So he said, was holding herself back. So he said, "Look, don't fear the net. When you rush "Look, don't fear the net. When you rush "Look, don't fear the net. When you rush the net, you score 80% of the points." the net, you score 80% of the points." the net, you score 80% of the points." >> And that wasn't true. >> And that wasn't true. >> And that wasn't true. >> Not even close. He completely lied to >> Not even close. He completely lied to >> Not even close. He completely lied to her. her. her. Now what he says was is that the lie Now what he says was is that the lie Now what he says was is that the lie became reality because after he told her became reality because after he told her became reality because after he told her that she gained confidence based on the that she gained confidence based on the that she gained confidence based on the lie he had told her he she started lie he had told her he she started lie he had told her he she started rushing the net. She did end up scoring rushing the net. She did end up scoring rushing the net. She did end up scoring 80% of the points at the net and she 80% of the points at the net and she 80% of the points at the net and she ended up winning Wimbledon that year. ended up winning Wimbledon that year. ended up winning Wimbledon that year. Now is is what I'm advising people to do Now is is what I'm advising people to do Now is is what I'm advising people to do is to lie to themselves. Should we just is to lie to themselves. Should we just is to lie to themselves. Should we just gaslight ourselves and believe anything gaslight ourselves and believe anything gaslight ourselves and believe anything we want to believe? Not exactly. You we want to believe? Not exactly. You we want to believe? Not exactly. You see, her coach knew, and this is what see, her coach knew, and this is what see, her coach knew, and this is what makes coaching so powerful, makes coaching so powerful, makes coaching so powerful, >> her coach knew what she was capable of. >> her coach knew what she was capable of. >> her coach knew what she was capable of. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Just like those rats we had talked about >> Just like those rats we had talked about >> Just like those rats we had talked about at the very beginning, that they had it at the very beginning, that they had it at the very beginning, that they had it in them all along. in them all along. in them all along. >> And he had evidence that she has the >> And he had evidence that she has the >> And he had evidence that she has the skills as well. skills as well. skills as well. >> He wasn't making it. He wasn't saying, >> He wasn't making it. He wasn't saying, >> He wasn't making it. He wasn't saying, "Oh, Serena, go fly." Right? "Oh, Serena, go fly." Right? "Oh, Serena, go fly." Right? >> He wasn't taking someone off the street >> He wasn't taking someone off the street >> He wasn't taking someone off the street and saying, "Hey, you can go to the net and saying, "Hey, you can go to the net and saying, "Hey, you can go to the net and rush it." And and rush it." And and rush it." And >> it was based on fact. Yeah. So, here's >> it was based on fact. Yeah. So, here's >> it was based on fact. Yeah. So, here's the most common criticism I get to all the most common criticism I get to all the most common criticism I get to all this. this. this. >> Are you telling people to lie to >> Are you telling people to lie to >> Are you telling people to lie to ourselves? Should we just uh, you know, ourselves? Should we just uh, you know, ourselves? Should we just uh, you know, gaslight ourselves? Well, I would argue gaslight ourselves? Well, I would argue gaslight ourselves? Well, I would argue you are already gaslighting yourself. you are already gaslighting yourself. you are already gaslighting yourself. You're already lying to yourself. You You're already lying to yourself. You You're already lying to yourself. You just pick the limiting belief versus the just pick the limiting belief versus the just pick the limiting belief versus the liberating belief. So, we can choose. liberating belief. So, we can choose. liberating belief. So, we can choose. Serena was picking the limiting belief. Serena was picking the limiting belief. Serena was picking the limiting belief. I suck at the net. Her coach knew a I suck at the net. Her coach knew a I suck at the net. Her coach knew a liberating belief that you're great at liberating belief that you're great at liberating belief that you're great at the net. And he knew that that could the net. And he knew that that could the net. And he knew that that could also be true, right? Beliefs are tools, also be true, right? Beliefs are tools, also be true, right? Beliefs are tools, not truths. Which one was a fact? They not truths. Which one was a fact? They not truths. Which one was a fact? They were both true. If she believed she were both true. If she believed she were both true. If she believed she sucked at the net, she did. And if she sucked at the net, she did. And if she sucked at the net, she did. And if she believed she was great at the net, she believed she was great at the net, she believed she was great at the net, she also was. So by by reminding her of this also was. So by by reminding her of this also was. So by by reminding her of this liberating belief, the lie became liberating belief, the lie became liberating belief, the lie became reality. reality. reality. >> I'd love to know if Serena's ever >> I'd love to know if Serena's ever >> I'd love to know if Serena's ever commented on this and you know, has he commented on this and you know, has he commented on this and you know, has he I'm sure she knows now. It would be I'm sure she knows now. It would be I'm sure she knows now. It would be quite interesting her her take on that. quite interesting her her take on that. quite interesting her her take on that. It kind of reminds me of many many years It kind of reminds me of many many years It kind of reminds me of many many years ago, maybe in my late 20s when I was ago, maybe in my late 20s when I was ago, maybe in my late 20s when I was getting into golf. Haven't played in getting into golf. Haven't played in getting into golf. Haven't played in years. years. years. I I I can on occasion get quite obsessed I I I can on occasion get quite obsessed I I I can on occasion get quite obsessed about things and I would buy lots of about things and I would buy lots of about things and I would buy lots of books on golf and the mental game of books on golf and the mental game of books on golf and the mental game of golf and I'm almost certain from golf and I'm almost certain from golf and I'm almost certain from recollection there was a there was a recollection there was a there was a recollection there was a there was a book by someone called Bob Ratella book by someone called Bob Ratella book by someone called Bob Ratella >> he's [clears throat] written bestsellers >> he's [clears throat] written bestsellers >> he's [clears throat] written bestsellers on the psychology of golf basically and on the psychology of golf basically and on the psychology of golf basically and I'm almost certain from recollection I I'm almost certain from recollection I I'm almost certain from recollection I haven't thought about this in years that haven't thought about this in years that haven't thought about this in years that some of the most excellent putters I some of the most excellent putters I some of the most excellent putters I mean putting is a is a critically mean putting is a is a critically mean putting is a is a critically important skill in golf. You know, they important skill in golf. You know, they important skill in golf. You know, they they say you drive for show, you put for they say you drive for show, you put for they say you drive for show, you put for dough, right? Because it doesn't matter dough, right? Because it doesn't matter dough, right? Because it doesn't matter how good your drives are, your eye shots how good your drives are, your eye shots how good your drives are, your eye shots are, and if if you don't sink that are, and if if you don't sink that are, and if if you don't sink that five-footer time and time again, five-footer time and time again, five-footer time and time again, >> you ain't going to win anything, >> you ain't going to win anything, >> you ain't going to win anything, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> And sometimes interviewers at the end of >> And sometimes interviewers at the end of >> And sometimes interviewers at the end of their round, they'd go up and say, "Hey, their round, they'd go up and say, "Hey, their round, they'd go up and say, "Hey, listen. You know, your drives, your iron listen. You know, your drives, your iron listen. You know, your drives, your iron play was great today, but of course, you play was great today, but of course, you play was great today, but of course, you know, had your putting been a bit know, had your putting been a bit know, had your putting been a bit better, obviously you would have scored better, obviously you would have scored better, obviously you would have scored higher." higher." higher." >> Yeah. And I think he trained people and >> Yeah. And I think he trained people and >> Yeah. And I think he trained people and he says some of the best golfers would he says some of the best golfers would he says some of the best golfers would say, "What are you talking about? I I say, "What are you talking about? I I say, "What are you talking about? I I put I puted great today. [laughter] The put I puted great today. [laughter] The put I puted great today. [laughter] The putts didn't go in, but I puted great." putts didn't go in, but I puted great." putts didn't go in, but I puted great." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And it's interesting. >> And it's interesting. >> And it's interesting. >> It's kind of interesting. So, yeah. >> It's kind of interesting. So, yeah. >> It's kind of interesting. So, yeah. Could it be selfdeception? Well, Could it be selfdeception? Well, Could it be selfdeception? Well, possibly. But, you know, you're also possibly. But, you know, you're also possibly. But, you know, you're also talking about some of the best golfers talking about some of the best golfers talking about some of the best golfers in the world who probably know that in the world who probably know that in the world who probably know that they're capable of putting really well they're capable of putting really well they're capable of putting really well and it's more helpful for them to choose and it's more helpful for them to choose and it's more helpful for them to choose the belief, the belief, the belief, >> right, that, hey, I puted great today. >> right, that, hey, I puted great today. >> right, that, hey, I puted great today. >> That's terrific. I mean this is a great >> That's terrific. I mean this is a great >> That's terrific. I mean this is a great demonstration of the power of agency. demonstration of the power of agency. demonstration of the power of agency. Why is that so important? So just that Why is that so important? So just that Why is that so important? So just that small distinction of the the that I small distinction of the the that I small distinction of the the that I controlled what I could. controlled what I could. controlled what I could. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I put it great. >> I put it great. >> I put it great. >> Now whether there was a bit of wind or >> Now whether there was a bit of wind or >> Now whether there was a bit of wind or uh outside circumstances, I can't uh outside circumstances, I can't uh outside circumstances, I can't control that. But I did what was under control that. But I did what was under control that. But I did what was under my control. This gets back to this my control. This gets back to this my control. This gets back to this concept of locust of control. Yeah. concept of locust of control. Yeah. concept of locust of control. Yeah. Which turns out to be incredibly Which turns out to be incredibly Which turns out to be incredibly important for our psychological important for our psychological important for our psychological well-being. That there are two two ways well-being. That there are two two ways well-being. That there are two two ways of looking at the world per se. that one of looking at the world per se. that one of looking at the world per se. that one is called an external locus of control is called an external locus of control is called an external locus of control and one is an internal locus of control. and one is an internal locus of control. and one is an internal locus of control. An external locus of control, these An external locus of control, these An external locus of control, these people say um that things happen to me. people say um that things happen to me. people say um that things happen to me. You know, uh the world is so crazy these You know, uh the world is so crazy these You know, uh the world is so crazy these days with the politics and the wars and days with the politics and the wars and days with the politics and the wars and the economy and AI and all these things the economy and AI and all these things the economy and AI and all these things are happening to me. A person with an are happening to me. A person with an are happening to me. A person with an internal locus of control believes that internal locus of control believes that internal locus of control believes that they affect change, that they are they affect change, that they are they affect change, that they are responsible for where they are in life. responsible for where they are in life. responsible for where they are in life. Now, here's what's interesting about Now, here's what's interesting about Now, here's what's interesting about this. Number one, people with an this. Number one, people with an this. Number one, people with an internal locus of control that believe internal locus of control that believe internal locus of control that believe generally that I control my generally that I control my generally that I control my circumstances do better in life in circumstances do better in life in circumstances do better in life in almost every conceivable way. They make almost every conceivable way. They make almost every conceivable way. They make more money. They have more friends. They more money. They have more friends. They more money. They have more friends. They contribute more to their community. All contribute more to their community. All contribute more to their community. All these good things happen. They're these good things happen. They're these good things happen. They're psychologically, you know, they have psychologically, you know, they have psychologically, you know, they have less rates of depression, anxiety less rates of depression, anxiety less rates of depression, anxiety disorder. All these good things happen disorder. All these good things happen disorder. All these good things happen to people with an internal locus of to people with an internal locus of to people with an internal locus of control more than the external locus of control more than the external locus of control more than the external locus of control. Now, here's the real kicker. control. Now, here's the real kicker. control. Now, here's the real kicker. Even when the fact is that you are Even when the fact is that you are Even when the fact is that you are persecuted or that you're at the bottom persecuted or that you're at the bottom persecuted or that you're at the bottom of the uh soioeconomic strata or that of the uh soioeconomic strata or that of the uh soioeconomic strata or that you're discriminated against, even when you're discriminated against, even when you're discriminated against, even when you have every factual reason to claim you have every factual reason to claim you have every factual reason to claim that that the world is inhibiting you in that that the world is inhibiting you in that that the world is inhibiting you in some way, some way, some way, >> you still do better with an internal >> you still do better with an internal >> you still do better with an internal locus of control. locus of control. locus of control. >> So, so that is 100% in your control. You >> So, so that is 100% in your control. You >> So, so that is 100% in your control. You can't always control your circumstances. can't always control your circumstances. can't always control your circumstances. And of course, there's inequality. And And of course, there's inequality. And And of course, there's inequality. And it's ridiculous not to think there isn't it's ridiculous not to think there isn't it's ridiculous not to think there isn't inequality. But it turns out that even inequality. But it turns out that even inequality. But it turns out that even in those circumstances, you do better in those circumstances, you do better in those circumstances, you do better psychologically with that internal psychologically with that internal psychologically with that internal >> loc. You don't know how much I loved >> loc. You don't know how much I loved >> loc. You don't know how much I loved that section in the book, right? Because that section in the book, right? Because that section in the book, right? Because one of the things that comes up in the one of the things that comes up in the one of the things that comes up in the health world is exactly what you just health world is exactly what you just health world is exactly what you just said, right? Many doctors will say said, right? Many doctors will say said, right? Many doctors will say all of this personal uh agency stuff all of this personal uh agency stuff all of this personal uh agency stuff about what you can do for your health about what you can do for your health about what you can do for your health is, you know, is pointless. These are is, you know, is pointless. These are is, you know, is pointless. These are socioeconomic problems. Mhm. socioeconomic problems. Mhm. socioeconomic problems. Mhm. >> And I once gave a keynote a couple of >> And I once gave a keynote a couple of >> And I once gave a keynote a couple of years ago, I think at the British years ago, I think at the British years ago, I think at the British Society of Lifestyle Medicine. Society of Lifestyle Medicine. Society of Lifestyle Medicine. >> And >> And >> And I said that whilst that viewpoint is I said that whilst that viewpoint is I said that whilst that viewpoint is true, it's also condescending true, it's also condescending true, it's also condescending >> and not very useful. >> and not very useful. >> and not very useful. >> And not very useful. And and why I and >> And not very useful. And and why I and >> And not very useful. And and why I and look, the truth is it's both, right? look, the truth is it's both, right? look, the truth is it's both, right? It's like nothing's black or white. It's like nothing's black or white. It's like nothing's black or white. Should we be trying to improve the Should we be trying to improve the Should we be trying to improve the quality of living and lifestyles for quality of living and lifestyles for quality of living and lifestyles for everyone? Yeah, of course we should. But everyone? Yeah, of course we should. But everyone? Yeah, of course we should. But actually, no matter how bad your actually, no matter how bad your actually, no matter how bad your situation is, situation is, situation is, >> it always helps to have a better >> it always helps to have a better >> it always helps to have a better personal agency, a belief that actually personal agency, a belief that actually personal agency, a belief that actually I can do something to influence the I can do something to influence the I can do something to influence the outcome, right? Even if it's not based outcome, right? Even if it's not based outcome, right? Even if it's not based on fact. I think that's what's so on fact. I think that's what's so on fact. I think that's what's so mind-blowing is that even if it's not mind-blowing is that even if it's not mind-blowing is that even if it's not objectively true, it's a different objectively true, it's a different objectively true, it's a different standard. One is about should society standard. One is about should society standard. One is about should society change, of course, society can improve. change, of course, society can improve. change, of course, society can improve. But if you sit there and wait for But if you sit there and wait for But if you sit there and wait for society to improve, you're gonna be dead society to improve, you're gonna be dead society to improve, you're gonna be dead already. By the time that happens, your already. By the time that happens, your already. By the time that happens, your life will have passed you by. life will have passed you by. life will have passed you by. >> Yeah. Just to just to sort of finish off >> Yeah. Just to just to sort of finish off >> Yeah. Just to just to sort of finish off that point, a really simple example is that point, a really simple example is that point, a really simple example is okay, let's say an individual okay, let's say an individual okay, let's say an individual um has got a stressful job and they um has got a stressful job and they um has got a stressful job and they don't like the way their colleagues and don't like the way their colleagues and don't like the way their colleagues and their boss speaks to them and they hate their boss speaks to them and they hate their boss speaks to them and they hate the job and but they do it because it's the job and but they do it because it's the job and but they do it because it's the only job they can get, the only job they can get, the only job they can get, >> right? if >> right? if >> right? if I can teach them a breathing exercise, I can teach them a breathing exercise, I can teach them a breathing exercise, right, that helps them lower stress right, that helps them lower stress right, that helps them lower stress because it does. You know, there are because it does. You know, there are because it does. You know, there are many breathing exercises that we know many breathing exercises that we know many breathing exercises that we know physiologically will um lower your physiologically will um lower your physiologically will um lower your stress levels and change the tone of stress levels and change the tone of stress levels and change the tone of your nervous system. your nervous system. your nervous system. >> If I teach that individual that, it >> If I teach that individual that, it >> If I teach that individual that, it doesn't change the fact that the boss doesn't change the fact that the boss doesn't change the fact that the boss is not very nice to them or they don't is not very nice to them or they don't is not very nice to them or they don't want to be in that job, but it changes want to be in that job, but it changes want to be in that job, but it changes their perception of that. It changes their perception of that. It changes their perception of that. It changes their their their possibility when the their their their possibility when the their their their possibility when the boss says that instead of getting boss says that instead of getting boss says that instead of getting triggered they can be a bit calmer. They triggered they can be a bit calmer. They triggered they can be a bit calmer. They can look at it differently. They can can look at it differently. They can can look at it differently. They can look at options. Right. So it's not look at options. Right. So it's not look at options. Right. So it's not either or it's both. either or it's both. either or it's both. >> That's right. And so this is why having >> That's right. And so this is why having >> That's right. And so this is why having this practice of of these frequently this practice of of these frequently this practice of of these frequently accessible liberating beliefs. For accessible liberating beliefs. For accessible liberating beliefs. For example, uh for me whenever something is example, uh for me whenever something is example, uh for me whenever something is is hard, it feels painful, it feels is hard, it feels painful, it feels is hard, it feels painful, it feels difficult, I there's that automatic difficult, I there's that automatic difficult, I there's that automatic reaction between the pain, the signal reaction between the pain, the signal reaction between the pain, the signal and the suffering. So how do we and the suffering. So how do we and the suffering. So how do we shortcircuit that? How do we divert it shortcircuit that? How do we divert it shortcircuit that? How do we divert it to a a liberating belief? For me, for to a a liberating belief? For me, for to a a liberating belief? For me, for example, you know, I've written three example, you know, I've written three example, you know, I've written three bestsellers. I've uh I've written bestsellers. I've uh I've written bestsellers. I've uh I've written thousands of articles. Writing for me is thousands of articles. Writing for me is thousands of articles. Writing for me is never easy. It's hard freaking work. I I never easy. It's hard freaking work. I I never easy. It's hard freaking work. I I want to do anything but the writing. I want to do anything but the writing. I want to do anything but the writing. I want to go look at Instagram or check want to go look at Instagram or check want to go look at Instagram or check email or stock prices or sports scores, email or stock prices or sports scores, email or stock prices or sports scores, do anything but. Because in my mind, do anything but. Because in my mind, do anything but. Because in my mind, before the limiting belief was if this before the limiting belief was if this before the limiting belief was if this is painful, I should escape. I shouldn't is painful, I should escape. I shouldn't is painful, I should escape. I shouldn't do this if it hurts. Well, now I have a do this if it hurts. Well, now I have a do this if it hurts. Well, now I have a new belief. The new belief is this is new belief. The new belief is this is new belief. The new belief is this is what it feels like to get better. this what it feels like to get better. this what it feels like to get better. this is what it feels like to get better. is what it feels like to get better. is what it feels like to get better. Just having that frame of mind that you Just having that frame of mind that you Just having that frame of mind that you know what that discomfort that's a good know what that discomfort that's a good know what that discomfort that's a good thing. That's the point that I'm thing. That's the point that I'm thing. That's the point that I'm learning something from this and I I learning something from this and I I learning something from this and I I have something rare that maybe other have something rare that maybe other have something rare that maybe other people can't do. That's special about people can't do. That's special about people can't do. That's special about what I'm doing. This is what it feels what I'm doing. This is what it feels what I'm doing. This is what it feels like to get better. Whereas my initial like to get better. Whereas my initial like to get better. Whereas my initial reaction was, well, if I was really good reaction was, well, if I was really good reaction was, well, if I was really good at this, if I was a real professional, at this, if I was a real professional, at this, if I was a real professional, it would be easy. It would be it would be easy. It would be it would be easy. It would be effortless. I could, you know, I effortless. I could, you know, I effortless. I could, you know, I wouldn't feel this discomfort. No. Who wouldn't feel this discomfort. No. Who wouldn't feel this discomfort. No. Who says that? That that's not true. That's says that? That that's not true. That's says that? That that's not true. That's a belief. M a belief. M a belief. M >> so by simply changing that belief uh >> so by simply changing that belief uh >> so by simply changing that belief uh really can work wonders and it turns out really can work wonders and it turns out really can work wonders and it turns out it's it's free anyone can adopt it has it's it's free anyone can adopt it has it's it's free anyone can adopt it has no side effects and so this is one of no side effects and so this is one of no side effects and so this is one of you know we talked about in the book how you know we talked about in the book how you know we talked about in the book how pills don't teach skills that in fact pills don't teach skills that in fact pills don't teach skills that in fact that it's our it's our drive that our that it's our it's our drive that our that it's our it's our drive that our problems you know so much of medical problems you know so much of medical problems you know so much of medical science has done so much good for us science has done so much good for us science has done so much good for us that we can get relief from pills so that we can get relief from pills so that we can get relief from pills so easily the problem is that we have this easily the problem is that we have this easily the problem is that we have this expectation of urgency we talk about expectation of urgency we talk about expectation of urgency we talk about this in pain reprocessing therapy that this in pain reprocessing therapy that this in pain reprocessing therapy that one of the steps is to lower the one of the steps is to lower the one of the steps is to lower the that when we feel pain that one of the that when we feel pain that one of the that when we feel pain that one of the things that we can do in pain things that we can do in pain things that we can do in pain reprocessing is to not expect instant reprocessing is to not expect instant reprocessing is to not expect instant relief. You know, medical science has relief. You know, medical science has relief. You know, medical science has has taught us that we should constantly has taught us that we should constantly has taught us that we should constantly get relief. But if you think about the get relief. But if you think about the get relief. But if you think about the the history of mankind, the history of mankind, the history of mankind, >> you know, it's only in the last few >> you know, it's only in the last few >> you know, it's only in the last few hundred years that we have these hundred years that we have these hundred years that we have these instantaneous solutions. What do you instantaneous solutions. What do you instantaneous solutions. What do you think people did for 200,000 years? You think people did for 200,000 years? You think people did for 200,000 years? You know, the the the kings and queens of know, the the the kings and queens of know, the the the kings and queens of England had soores and abscesses and England had soores and abscesses and England had soores and abscesses and parasites and all kinds of pain all day parasites and all kinds of pain all day parasites and all kinds of pain all day long. And they also figured out how to long. And they also figured out how to long. And they also figured out how to overcome those things without overcome those things without overcome those things without anesthetics and and they were in pain a anesthetics and and they were in pain a anesthetics and and they were in pain a lot. And so we can learn how to lot. And so we can learn how to lot. And so we can learn how to differentiate that not every stressor, differentiate that not every stressor, differentiate that not every stressor, not every pain point has to bring us not every pain point has to bring us not every pain point has to bring us down, has to be suffering. We can learn down, has to be suffering. We can learn down, has to be suffering. We can learn to look at it differently. And so those to look at it differently. And so those to look at it differently. And so those frequent mantras, you know, uh like we frequent mantras, you know, uh like we frequent mantras, you know, uh like we like we talked about about how um uh like we talked about about how um uh like we talked about about how um uh that that everyone is operating from the that that everyone is operating from the that that everyone is operating from the tools they have or this is what it feels tools they have or this is what it feels tools they have or this is what it feels like to get better or one of my like to get better or one of my like to get better or one of my favorites is that you things don't get favorites is that you things don't get favorites is that you things don't get easier, you get stronger. easier, you get stronger. easier, you get stronger. >> These mantras that we repeat throughout >> These mantras that we repeat throughout >> These mantras that we repeat throughout the day, this is our defense system the day, this is our defense system the day, this is our defense system against this this constant pulling back against this this constant pulling back against this this constant pulling back into passivity and limiting beliefs. into passivity and limiting beliefs. into passivity and limiting beliefs. >> Yeah. Now, honestly, you you take your >> Yeah. Now, honestly, you you take your >> Yeah. Now, honestly, you you take your time writing these books, but this is time writing these books, but this is time writing these books, but this is just a wonderful book. We've not even just a wonderful book. We've not even just a wonderful book. We've not even scratched the sides on what's in it. I scratched the sides on what's in it. I scratched the sides on what's in it. I did want to talk about the chapter on did want to talk about the chapter on did want to talk about the chapter on prayer, but prayer, but prayer, but >> I'm going to save that for [laughter] >> I'm going to save that for [laughter] >> I'm going to save that for [laughter] people to to to to to read the book. And people to to to to to read the book. And people to to to to to read the book. And [clears throat] you'll see that actually [clears throat] you'll see that actually [clears throat] you'll see that actually even if you're not religious, there's a even if you're not religious, there's a even if you're not religious, there's a lot in that chapter for you. lot in that chapter for you. lot in that chapter for you. >> I love that story when you go and see >> I love that story when you go and see >> I love that story when you go and see the the priest, the you go into the the the priest, the you go into the the the priest, the you go into the synagogue, you go to the Hindu temple, synagogue, you go to the Hindu temple, synagogue, you go to the Hindu temple, you go to the mosque, you go and you you you go to the mosque, you go and you you you go to the mosque, you go and you you see the you see all those similarities. see the you see all those similarities. see the you see all those similarities. It's it's really great. The book is It's it's really great. The book is It's it's really great. The book is brand new. It's called Beyond Belief: brand new. It's called Beyond Belief: brand new. It's called Beyond Belief: The Sciencebacked Way to Stop Limiting The Sciencebacked Way to Stop Limiting The Sciencebacked Way to Stop Limiting Yourself and Achieve Extraordinary Yourself and Achieve Extraordinary Yourself and Achieve Extraordinary Results. Change your mind, change your Results. Change your mind, change your Results. Change your mind, change your life. It's it's a brilliant read. Um life. It's it's a brilliant read. Um life. It's it's a brilliant read. Um N to finish off first of all, I've had a N to finish off first of all, I've had a N to finish off first of all, I've had a wonderful conversation. Really really wonderful conversation. Really really wonderful conversation. Really really enjoyed it. enjoyed it. enjoyed it. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. for that person who has heard us talk for that person who has heard us talk for that person who has heard us talk today near and has realized that today near and has realized that today near and has realized that actually actually actually they have limited their experience of they have limited their experience of they have limited their experience of life life life >> because of their limiting beliefs. >> because of their limiting beliefs. >> because of their limiting beliefs. What final words do you have for that What final words do you have for that What final words do you have for that person to change those limiting beliefs person to change those limiting beliefs person to change those limiting beliefs to liberating ones? to liberating ones? to liberating ones? First step is realizing that you don't First step is realizing that you don't First step is realizing that you don't see reality clearly to allow yourself see reality clearly to allow yourself see reality clearly to allow yourself that grace to realize that you just that grace to realize that you just that grace to realize that you just can't see reality clearly. So that's can't see reality clearly. So that's can't see reality clearly. So that's step number one. Then look for those step number one. Then look for those step number one. Then look for those limiting beliefs. This is probably the limiting beliefs. This is probably the limiting beliefs. This is probably the hardest part because limiting beliefs hardest part because limiting beliefs hardest part because limiting beliefs are like our faces. I say look at your are like our faces. I say look at your are like our faces. I say look at your face right now. How do you look at your face right now. How do you look at your face right now. How do you look at your face? You can't look at your face. We face? You can't look at your face. We face? You can't look at your face. We all have them but we can't look at our all have them but we can't look at our all have them but we can't look at our own face. We can look at our hands. We own face. We can look at our hands. We own face. We can look at our hands. We can look at our feet. We can't look at can look at our feet. We can't look at can look at our feet. We can't look at our face. And so just like our faces, we our face. And so just like our faces, we our face. And so just like our faces, we can't look at them. We can't look at our can't look at them. We can't look at our can't look at them. We can't look at our limiting beliefs on our own. How do we limiting beliefs on our own. How do we limiting beliefs on our own. How do we look at our face? We go to a mirror. We look at our face? We go to a mirror. We look at our face? We go to a mirror. We have to reflect. And so your brain is have to reflect. And so your brain is have to reflect. And so your brain is trying to protect you from seeing those trying to protect you from seeing those trying to protect you from seeing those limiting beliefs because again, that's limiting beliefs because again, that's limiting beliefs because again, that's where safety lies. where safety lies. where safety lies. >> So in order to uncover those limiting >> So in order to uncover those limiting >> So in order to uncover those limiting beliefs, you have to reflect. You have beliefs, you have to reflect. You have beliefs, you have to reflect. You have to do a process, which is where we look to do a process, which is where we look to do a process, which is where we look for what I call the muck. The muk are for what I call the muck. The muk are for what I call the muck. The muk are those areas of your life where you have those areas of your life where you have those areas of your life where you have a goal. You have uh an aspiration of a goal. You have uh an aspiration of a goal. You have uh an aspiration of some kind, but you're not making some kind, but you're not making some kind, but you're not making progress. It's that New Year's progress. It's that New Year's progress. It's that New Year's resolution that you've had for year resolution that you've had for year resolution that you've had for year after year. It's that annoying after year. It's that annoying after year. It's that annoying relationship that you can't figure out relationship that you can't figure out relationship that you can't figure out how to fix. It's that dream that you've how to fix. It's that dream that you've how to fix. It's that dream that you've deferred again and again. You know deferred again and again. You know deferred again and again. You know you're capable, but for some reason you you're capable, but for some reason you you're capable, but for some reason you can't get yourself to do what you know can't get yourself to do what you know can't get yourself to do what you know you should do. you should do. you should do. >> That's where the limiting beliefs lie. >> That's where the limiting beliefs lie. >> That's where the limiting beliefs lie. So if you can identify those limiting So if you can identify those limiting So if you can identify those limiting beliefs and then simply experiment with beliefs and then simply experiment with beliefs and then simply experiment with could the exact opposite be true for a could the exact opposite be true for a could the exact opposite be true for a limited amount of time. Could the exact limited amount of time. Could the exact limited amount of time. Could the exact opposite be true? There's a few more opposite be true? There's a few more opposite be true? There's a few more steps we we didn't get to but when you steps we we didn't get to but when you steps we we didn't get to but when you do that you realize that you have far do that you realize that you have far do that you realize that you have far more potential than you ever imagined. more potential than you ever imagined. more potential than you ever imagined. >> N it's a wonderful book beyond belief. >> N it's a wonderful book beyond belief. >> N it's a wonderful book beyond belief. Thank you so much for coming on the Thank you so much for coming on the Thank you so much for coming on the show. show. show. >> My pleasure. Thank you. If you enjoyed >> My pleasure. Thank you. If you enjoyed >> My pleasure. Thank you. If you enjoyed that conversation, then I think [music] that conversation, then I think [music] that conversation, then I think [music] you are really going to enjoy this one you are really going to enjoy this one you are really going to enjoy this one that I've picked out. Especially if you that I've picked out. Especially if you that I've picked out. Especially if you actually went to the happiness gym actually went to the happiness gym actually went to the happiness gym several times a week, you will actually several times a week, you will actually several times a week, you will actually have a happier life, right? And the have a happier life, right? And the have a happier life, right? And the happiness gym is very straightforward. happiness gym is very straightforward. happiness gym is very straightforward. It's a set of [music] skills that you It's a set of [music] skills that you It's a set of [music] skills that you need to practice.