You’d Look Better With MORE Body Fat | Mind Pump 2819

Key Takeaway

Stop chasing extreme leanness. Most men look and perform better at 13-15% body fat than 10%, while women thrive at 23-25% versus 19%. The key isn't getting leaner—it's building more muscle at a sustainable body fat percentage. You'll look better, feel healthier, have more energy, better hormones, and actually enjoy your life without obsessing over every meal.

Episode Overview

This episode challenges the fitness industry's obsession with extreme leanness, revealing why most people would actually look better, feel healthier, and perform better at higher body fat percentages. The hosts discuss how building muscle matters far more than dropping body fat, sharing real examples from their coaching team including dramatic transformations that involved gaining body fat while looking significantly better. They explore the psychological trap of body dysmorphia in fitness culture, the importance of curating your social media algorithms, and practical parenting strategies for managing technology with teenagers.

Full Transcript

Transcript of You’d Look Better With MORE Body Fat | Mind Pump 2819 from Mind Pump Show. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

Look, check this out. A lot of you would look way better fatter. Uh, are we talking about people that are like bikini bodybuilders that like 5% body fat? Is that what you're going That's obvious. I think that's that's obvious, right? They're just too lean. You can't be that lean all the time. It's unhealthy. I'm I'm actually talking to fitness fanatics, like dudes that feel like they need to walk around at 10%, women that need to walk around at 19 uh% all the time. Uh I I I I think and I know, you know, you're surrounded by the fitness space.

you're getting all this stuff advertised to you. But what's funny is that um I mean you're if you're fit, you got muscle, uh you probably as a woman would look better around 23 24% as a dude, 13 14% body fat. And it's funny because when they ask the opposite sex, this is what they typically point to unless they're in that space, in which case we tend to worship this. Yeah. Cuz it looks more healthy. Like you're Yeah. You're not like struggling to get food in. Like it's Yeah.

your your your body is like just sits at that nice uh percentage and and it just looks like you're thriving versus like uh you know you're you're starving yourself for a look. I I find this a really interesting conversation right now in in particular with what I just kind of went through the last you know whatever it was I think almost a month ago or so that I I had tested my body fat and um I'm pretty good about uh like being able to look at someone or myself and guess and judge your body fat percentage.

Yeah. And judge my body fat percentage. It's not that often that uh especially myself who I've done that so many times uh would I have guessed that far off um that I was and it was really like enlightening for me uh and reminded me of something that I feel like I've I've talked to clients about many times but it's always neat to see that uh unveiled even to myself and what that is and what I what I realized is that it actually had less to do with my body fat percentage is that I have a good amount of lean body mass on me.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 180 pounds. 180 pounds. 180 pounds. Some body fat on muscle looks great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And uh and so why I like the direction you're going is that if you would have asked me even just a decade or so ago, uh what percentage body fat do do I like my physique at? I'd say, oh, it's probably around 10, maybe 12% body fat at, you know, somewhere in that range. And I think I'm the happiest there. I'm the most comfortable diet-wise. I like the way I look, all these things like that.

So to have already to actually to have the reverse happen to me where I've been training for a while back in my rhythm uh you know hearing from my wife like oh you look so great right now like feeling good. I'm like oh yeah know I I I like how I feel right now. I'm going probably lean out a little bit but I like how I feel. Um and then I'm like yeah I might be a little bit higher than that 10 to 12%. I'm probably more like 14 15%.

And there's always a part of me too that kind of lies to myself that says that like I think I'm 14 15 but I really think I'm more like 13. So, I'm like already setting myself up. And so, to get the test back and to be as high as like 18, I went, "What in the like no way?" Cuz the last time I was at that's the closest to the highest body fat percentage I've I've ever I've ever tested. And I know how I looked and felt at 19, which is only 1% difference.

So, it's not a huge difference body fat percentage wise, but I obviously have a significant more amount of muscle at that 18% because when I was 18% I or 19% I was 211 lbs. Oh, when you did your first Oh, yeah. So, this time I weigh 2133 lbs. lbs. lbs. 24 more pounds of muscle or at least. So, but 1% body fat difference. Um but a significant difference in lean body mass and uh looking at looking at myself going like oh wow that's crazy cuz if you would ask me and so it really and it highlights to me what what I've communicated I feel like to a lot of my female clients in the past that get hung up on like the what you were saying this number of like oh I think I want to be like 19% like I know what I've looked like at 21 or 22% I want to be a little bit leaner than that and it's like you know that's better goal than I'd say a scale goal.

Like someone who says like I want to weigh one because that's a horrible goal. That's right. Right. But even the more I realize with myself like even a body fat percentage isn't ultimately that great of a gauge too because how different a 12% version of me and an 18% version of me can actually look based off of lean body mass. Totally. And here here's what um so we'll talk just physiologically and even we'll talk about athletic performance here but physiologically speaking so here's the context uh you have uh two you have the same person both fit uh both strong both you know good fitness good you know V2 max strength mobility that kind of stuff right uh we'll talk about a guy over here he's 10% over here he's 15%.

First off, the 15% version is going to have better athletic performance. And we know this by the data. data. data. Better stamina. Better stamina. Better stamina. Uh better strength, better stamina, better resilience. This is a big one. Like if he gets sick or you get injured, he's going to be more resilient at 15% body fat. So that's number one. Number two, his hormone health is better. It's more likely to be better around 15% than at 10%. A natural guy, and there's always exceptions to the rules.

We'll stop pointing to the pro aletes that are genetic freaks, okay? I'm talking about most people, like 99% of people listening right now, it most natural dudes go from 15 to 10%, they sacrifice uh testosterone, they sacrifice hormone health, they sacrifice immune health, and they do sacrifice u athletic performance as well. Uh that's there's that part. Then there's this part. When women are asked, majority of them when they're looking at a dude who's fit, they kind of prefer the guy that's like 13 to 15% over the 10%.

Why do they prefer that? because uh we tend to look for signs of health and uh fertility. Now, well, I'll speak to women again. It's subconscious. It's subconscious. It's subconscious. It is. I'll speak to women. Both fit, both working out, both okay, doing well. 19% 24%. The 24% woman, and this is even more true for women than for men because their bodies are more sensitive to this than men are. Her the 24 25% woman who's fit, healthy, muscle, the whole deal, she's going to have a better hormone profile.

She's going to be more fertile, more regular periods, uh, less, you know, PMS symptoms. So, hormone health is better, much better resilience, better athletic performance, and most dudes would say she looks better. She's got the curve, she's got the and she looks good. And so, what's happened is we've got this distortion because the people who are communicating health aren't really communicating health on social media. What they're communicating is a body obsession. And so they tend to present this extreme. Now, let's talk about general health, like overall health.

For most guys, including the guys in this room who know what we're doing. If you know, if you're going to walk around uh at 10% body fat, you place a higher focus on your diet, dare I say, a slightly unhealthy and many cases a very unhealthy focus on your diet. You don't have a lot of flexibility. You're really paying attention to what you eat so you can maintain this 10%. 15% you generally eat healthy but you enjoy the occasional going out. You're not that dude that goes out that's like no sorry I can't have you know this I got to eat this particular way.

Same thing for women. So mental health uh in terms of body obsession and stress around diet is much better. So and I just want to communicate this because uh now there are a lot of people that are listening who are just getting into exercise, just getting into watching what they're eating and so you know they're they're kind of aiming for this what we're talking about. But there's also a significant percentage of our audience that are fitness fanatics who, you know, women who think they got to get to 19%, guys who need to get 10%, and they think they're going to have this dramatic improvement in health or happiness when the truth is the opposite.

You're actually going to sacrifice a lot of things for a look, and you're not going to get much in return except for a body fat percentage that you're you're seeing on a scale. I I want to add to that and poke holes a little bit in that study. Uh, and not to debate you, but to to add to an even greater point to this argument because those studies that like take general people who generally keep themselves that body fat percentage, the argument you're making is that most opposite sex likes the opposite sex a little bit higher body fat percent.

And even that is generally speaking because if you were to take like using myself as an example again uh what I look like right now at 18% I can show my wife or general population a 15% version or a 14% version of me and I bet you if I put them next to each other and you said what are you more attracted to or what do you think looks better more people would say what the what I look like right now at 18% than what I have even then then then so even that doesn't tell the full story.

It's like I and I and the case that I'm trying to make is is the importance of building muscle. Yeah. The muscle part and and and because that's the healthy Yes. And and and the the the little bit of a higher body fat percentage and a lot of the research and the studies that we have that oh this is kind of optimal or ideal or healthy again is is taking a general population. I think there's a lot of people that could build 10 20 30 more pounds of muscle on them and their body fat percentage stay the same which means they added body fat by the way.

way. way. Right. Right. Right. And which means they got they've added more fat to their body, but they but they added 10 15 pounds of muscle and look be look better, feel better, uh more the opposite sex, be attracted to all the things and and not all those things are necessarily the most important, but it's like on all all markers and cases improved. improved. improved. We also have a brand new workout program bundle. It's called the spring bundle. Maps symmetry, maps prime, and the advanced training techniques guide.

All of those together, 147. That's over 50% off. Head over to mapsmarch.com. We'll use the example of our our trainer, Karen, and I love using her as example because uh she's perfect for this. She's on our staff. She's an amazing coach. Um and she took the big step of letting someone else totally take over her training and diet, which was Adam. She was she came to you. What was she sitting at? What was she walking around at? 18 17 17 17 17% body fat all the time.

Very lean. Okay. Not a good lean. uh or or I should I say it's too lean to walk around it. But this is what she was at. She comes to Adam, he reverse diets her. She gets her calories from where to where we were at she was at 1,900 to 2,000 calories. We're at 26 to 2700. So look at another almost,000 calories for her diet. Dramatically reduced her training volume. She's not exercising as much. much. much. Um she her strength went through the roof where she's hitting PRs weekly weekly weekly almost weekly like big PRs almost weekly.

weekly. weekly. Yeah. squats, deadlifts, hip thrust, big movements. Energy is better. Uh, every single person on staff is like, "Man, she looks amazing. She looks great." Got her went and got a DEXA scan, gained only body fat. Her body fat percentage went from 17% to what? what? what? Yeah. 19. Yeah. 19. Yeah. 19. 19. Still lean. Yeah. But she gained 2% body fat. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Gained some weight on the scale, gained no muscle on the DEXA, but she's stronger, feels better, more energy, and looks better.

looks better. looks better. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, and that's an extreme example, but better because she gained body fat. Yes. And her fitness improved. So, she didn't compromise her fitness. Yeah. Her fitness actually got better as That's an extreme example, but we need to communicate this because talking about that about that about that so many of our listeners are We have so many female listeners who are fit and they're working out and they're good and they're consistent like, "Hey, I'm at, you know, 25% body fat.

I want to get down to 20. What should I It's like I could I could tell you what you can do, but the truth is like you're better off staying where you're at and just keep improving your fitness and eating with some flexibility. And we get guys like that, too. I'm a 15% person. I want a six-pack. Like, bro, you get a six-pack, you think you're going to feel so much happier. Uh, you're not. Well, it's not a performance advantage, you know, like to be really lean.

No, it's just like, you know, whatever is healthy and what that is for your body and and what that consists of. And we have general ranges where we try to shoot, you know, where it's like this is healthy, you know, and I feel like, you know, I'm adequate energy-wise. I have that little bit of a buffer. Um, but I mean, it kind of varies, but at the same time, if that's where you start, you perform the best when you're in that health zone. health zone. health zone.

That's right. That's right. That's right. And you you stray out of that, you know, above, below above, below above, below to chase a look and and then it's, you know, you're compromising that. You know, it's funny. You I mean, Justin always is going to add his performance point. You're always going to go the health direction. I always love driving home this the look though because that's what most people are going after, right? Like I mean what you guys are saying are is so important. But the the truth is so many people are chasing a look and I think that's what I want to convey so much is like you at a higher body fat percentage, you know, to the point of how you open this, like you would look better, fatter if you just added muscle too.

And a lot of times you can't do that when you're always trying to be at this low percent body fat. We had a caller just recently and it's just like, you know, and she want she wants this like 20 to 22% which is a total fine percent to desire for a female. You can be healthy in that range. But I'm like looking at her going like, you know, I bet if you stay the same body fat percentage, which she was around 25 or 26 and just added 5 to 10 pounds of muscle, you would get the 22 20 to 22% look.

The look that you think you want. Yeah. The look that you think you want. It has less to do with the percentage. It's that you're you're thinking about where you're at right now. Oh, I'm a little fluffy. If I were to lean some of that fat off, then I'd have this look. Well, I will argue you just gained some muscle to that same. In fact, some fat could come with it, too, by the way. You added 10 lbs on the scale and eight muscle and two fat.

You would look you would look better. You would look the look that you think needs to be at 2020. You know what's funny, too, about this, by the way? Uh, you know, when you're you're a guy, you're walking around at 10% body fat. Your face doesn't look as good as when you're at 14% body fat. This is especially true. I'm going to piss people off. For women, you get down to the teens, your face does not look as good as when you're in the low to mid20s.

Body fat on your face, you got to have some. And you especially as you get older, especially as you get older where you you start to look like you're more aged. They're calling this ompic face or you know what's happening with that? People are just losing everything. Yeah. And they look old because why? Well, because you need some body fat and and some body fat is on your face and it actually makes you look more youthful and healthier. Um, and again, a lot of the messaging that we're getting are from people who their hormones are artificially propped up.

So, they could diet, they could do all extreme stuff, get their body fat lean, and they're going to be great. The average person chases this number, you're going to feel like garbage. Your libido is going to be down. You're you're overstressed with your workouts. you're overfocused on your diet and to Adam's point, you don't look as good. You might you little bit of a distorted view uh on yourself, not realizing you just don't look as And what's crazy about this, cuz I know I've done this before, is you'll have friends, these people listening have had this happen.

I guarantee it. Where they're getting really lean, and then their friends and family come up to like, you don't look good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But all they hear in their head is, "Yeah, it's cuz I'm shredded." Like, you know, know, know, that drift that you talk about, you know, and it really does happen. And that's the thing is the irony of it. Everybody wants to look youthful, right? You you look older, you know, when you're too lean. You just look older. Your skin doesn't look as as vibrant and healthy.

healthy. healthy. There's a saying, you know, there's an old there's a saying in I think it's in the fashion world in Italy. So, and it's not a great saying, but they say this to their models. They say face or ass. And what they mean by that is you pick either you have a round butt, you have a round but you have either you can have uh you know, you're going to sacrifice one or the other. So you get too lean, you're going to sacrifice your fa your face or whatever.

So it's like choose one of the other. Oh, that's funny. Yeah. So So if you have that, if you have the butt, you have I don't know. Anyway, it's a saying that they say because they they refer to getting too lean, how it affects how you start to look or whatever in your face. And you and you do you look older. But this message needs to get out. Uh because if you go through Instagram and you go on fitness Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Even if you go on wellness, which I the term wellness has been so bastardized now.

Wellness is just fitness, but now it's packaged a little different. What I mean by that is all the wellness people now, they're still displaying this like overly lean body focus or whatever. It just now looks like, you know, who else is such a great example on our team? I love to I' I've actually I got to sit down with her and talk to her about her whole journey and her calories and stuff like that, but I've seen her before and afters and that's Danny. that's Danny.

that's Danny. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Like the her her physique that she's built. Oh, yeah. She's built a total different physique than what she's so strong. She looks so funny. Strong. Strong. Strong. So strong. So strong. So strong. Yes. And I I like to ask her I like to ask her what she can eat calorie-wise today versus what she But did she come from a place where she was like super restricting? I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like and and just just looks like a whole different person.

Totally different person. She has so much more muscle on her body. And I and I like when I talked to when we were getting ready to do Karen, I asked her if she wanted to join. She's like, "Oh, not right now. I'm eating and doing this and that and like the fact that she can she can eat what she wants and have that kind of flexibility and still have that a physique that's like that, you know. And I think so so many so many people, women in particular, I feel like or my female clients get hung up on this this look that they remember having or seeing when they were at their leanest.

And you know, some of them might have had their body fat percentage and so they're either it's the scale or this body fat percentage. And you know, I guess the point I'm trying to make is we always talk about like body fat percentage kind of being this gold standard. It standard. It standard. It it's better than weight. Yeah. It's better, but it's still still go. still go. still go. It's still still can be very distorted, especially especially especially doesn't tell a whole story, especially for women because women hasn't muscle hasn't been promoted so much for women as it as it has been men for a really long time.

So, this is this goes both ways. And they're also advertised from an you know, image perspective or much heavier. The fashion industry is really the fashion, the fitness, the health, the wellness, like everything geared towards women is is so focused on how you look you look you look and it's coming from these really body dysmorphic people. Unfortunately, they're the ones that tend to get the voices in our you know one of the best things you could do really the one of the best things you could do this is both men and women but especially women is uh change your algorithm on your social media like consciously change it.

When you're going through and you're seeing bodies projected to you, pictures of bodies and how they look and they're, you know, check, click on the little whatever is a little the three dots and say, "I want to see less of this." And you have to do this every day because the algorithm is so smart that it'll revert back very quickly. So every day just say less of this le I want less of this in my brain. Less of this in my brain. And you would be surprised at how positively positively positively by the way you I know you actively do that.

I I actively like the things that I want. Like I actually I go like every it's like a an exercise I do now where I will look at my explore page to see if it's in my goal. Literally my goal is always it to be like all the things that I I want that you actually want. want. want. Yeah. That I want to be consuming uh that I'm into or whatever uh that I think is you know healthier or better right for whatever reason. Uh you you actually go and click on it and then say show me less of this.

Yes. Where where do you see where is that? So when you click when when so when you're scrolling Yeah. that when something comes up you can click on the picture. the picture. the picture. I think there's like little dots. Yeah. The little dots and you can say less of this or don't show me this. And so it's like literally on the like on in my feed I have like I'm on Instagram right now. Okay. Here's perfect. perfect. perfect. I've done that on Facebook. I haven't done it on Instagram.

Yeah. Why you're seeing this post request community note. community note. community note. Yeah. So, I've done it on X a lot cuz that's the one that I'll be on. And that one, bro, their algorithm is fast on X. Oh my god, that change is so quick, dude. You You look at one thing and then you get five more. I have a hard time with X just cuz it's so raw sometimes. Whoa. I forget that you're mostly on X right now. I'm trying to figure out how to do it.

it. it. There's a way to do it on all of them. I mean, it's a good thing right now. I'm going through my thing right now. I've yet to see something I don't. Okay, here's here's here's You could also do it with ads, by the way. way. way. Oh, yeah. I do that all the time. Yeah. Okay. Here. Okay. Not interested. That's right. Okay. So, so now here's why this is so don't suggest these posts anymore. Don't suggest posts with certain words. Snooze all suggest posts and Okay.

That's right. Now, the reason why this it's so important to do this this post made me feel uncomfortable. Yeah. So, and you know what that's think that's the strongest one. I think that's the strongest signal is that one right there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I've done that. It's and it's stronger because you have to like repeatedly say don't show me this, don't show me this. So the algorithms are so sensitive that it picks up micro fractions of a second longer that you hover. hover. hover.

Oh, it tracks your eyes. Yeah. Yeah. So if you're like scrolling through through through Oh, no. That's so And you pause for So your your your point, this is why I have to check back on my explore page is because So I always get I only like these the things that I want fed to me. But even if I get caught looking at something for a minute, even if I don't like it, it'll still start to it'll start to still change my explore page and feed it back to me again.

So that's why I was asking you why like how you do cuz the way I do it is like I get good at just really liking all the stuff I want. But you also have to say don't. Yeah. Cuz if you don't, it it knows that you pause for a second, it'll it'll feed again. again. again. It's it's a self adjusting in the moment on the fly. It's kind of brilliant when you think about from their point, you know. It's brilliant and it's and you that means you have to conscious bro you have to I'll give you guys an example attack your impulsive nature.

I told this story already but so my wife will be is okay with it but I'll tell it again. So there was there was a period we're going somewhere and I was like like oh maybe I should get some like it's like sexy lingerie for my wife right? So I went and looked up like you know I've told you about this happened to me to me to me and so as soon as I did that bro those emails so hold on. So, as soon as I did that, when I would go on social media, you know, the little ads that post underneath, underneath, underneath, little ads would post for lingerie, but they're like, "Bro, it's like it's like a half naked chick like, right?" And I don't want to see that because soft porn for sure.

I just don't want to see that. I've had issues with like, you know, looking at stuff in the past. And so, I just consciously now look away. And so, I had to go, don't show me this. This is offensive. I had to do like four times before it stopped. Like, I kept getting ads and I have I had to keep doing that. I've bought a lot of so I can't get away from it. from it. from it. Like there's probably at least six different brands that I've bought from and so they all they've all got me.

You know what I'm saying? Like there's they find me, dude, wherever I'm at. Oh, dude. Try and unsubscribe from those emails and then you get one of those emails. You're like, "Wow, I do this." But I tell you what, just for people listening, like if you you have to consciously do this every day, but change your algorithm because it shifts how you view the world, but more importantly, how you view yourself. Are you guys are you guys noticing with your teens um any news any like new like behavioralss around it like them organically not what you're restricting or telling?

Do you think that you're seeing a a increase in uh their like addiction to it or are they naturally starting because one of the things that we predicted we predicted we predicted Oh, like generally Yeah. that like this generation coming up is is is becoming it's more common that they're like I put I put really strong restrictions on my daughter. So she only gets 10 minutes of Instagram. She has no Tik Tok. Tok. Tok. Do you find you guys self uh like So where I guess I'm getting at with you guys cuz you guys have both have teens that were like a part part of the height the height of this stuff.

Is it always a battle? Is it something that's getting easier? Is it getting harder? Like what what's it like managing it for the for the for the kids? Then it's getting a lot easier. lot easier. lot easier. It's getting easier. He's a lot more mature with it than he was. It was a battle, dude, for a while. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't want to give him a phone at all. Like, you know, and that was like really hard for me to reconcile. That was a mistake I made was I gave my my my daughter has a phone.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh like my younger kids, they're not getting one. They're not getting one till it's absolutely necessary, which I don't know. We'll see. What What were What were the two age? How early did you do your daughter and how early did you do your boys? Um so, let's see. Did I get my daughter eighth grade? Eighth grade. I think it was eighth grade. grade. grade. Yeah, Ethan was 13. It might have been eighth. Is that Is that when you're 13? He was seven. Seven.

Seventh grade, I think. Yeah. In the seventh grade. It might have been seventh grade for me, too, cuz I think it was right around the same age. same age. same age. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So, I mean, yeah, I Here's the thing. Ideally, in the ideal situation, you know, if you can, you know, wait, that would be, you know, well, I I get what what I mean, it's real easy sitting from my seat, right, to say, but I understand uh and I can only imagine how difficult it was for the two of you at the the timing of it is that because I already see with my son's age uh parents that like like his best friend and we're really close to him like they they don't they restrict tech from his or their kid their kid doesn't get an iPad like like ours and so it makes it easy when the best friend doesn't too.

doesn't too. doesn't too. I was just going to say that's that that's the easier way to do it is if you if you have cultivate the friends. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean that's what Katrina and I have talked about and plan to do and it seems uh and I don't want to say it's easy but it's probably easier for me than it was for you guys when nobody was really paying attention when everybody thought it was everyone. I mean, your guys' generation, meaning your guys' kids generation, you were probably told if they don't learn tech, they're going to be behind.

If they don't if they don't learn to use those the computer outliers by waiting for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He had to wait, right? Like a couple years to catch up to his friends text messages. You know what helps too a lot, and I'm sure Justin could speak to this, uh, when they're busy doing things like sports and stuff when they're when they have nothing to do. Uh, do. Uh, do. Uh, bro, that's I preach that from, you know, the mountains, dude. I have to keep them busy.

You know it honestly idle hands devil's work. It for real whoever like said that like that is such truth. truth. truth. Yeah. It was said a long time ago too. That's what's crazy. Who said that? find out that but philosophy philosophy philosophy and I mean I because even with my oldest it's like you know he'll he'll do a good job with tech but then you know he's roaming around town and and all these things and it's like he's getting bored and it's like they they find their way into mischief just like you know and it's like now I'm battling that and it's like I it's just one of those things.

But you prefer that, right? Okay. funny you say that cuz my but my buddy Mike his kids sim similar age right and uh we we talked a lot about this for the last couple years and everything and uh he's really active dad try he's into cars always trying to get his his boy to come do the car events kid's not really into it rather stay at home on the computer the phone or on the games and stuff like that and he recently has got into those electric dirt bikes yes and he's like hardcore it but he's like he he rolls around with a group of kids that are like getting in trouble and they don't The cop the cops have busted them cuz they're like they go Yeah.

They go past where they're supposed to. supposed to. supposed to. Way farther than we ever did when we were kids. were kids. were kids. And so he's so electric. Yes. And they go like 50 mph, bro. And so he's like so conflicted cuz he's like I I've for the last 5 years I've been fighting to get him out of the house. Now he's out of the house, but then he's getting into mis mischief. And I'm like, you know, I I think I'd rather have that. I'd rather have him learn the consequences of the cop getting you in trouble for riding that bike where you're not supposed to and then the sitting plugged into a game all day.

Can we just say like straight up like there's always something raising raising kids, especially teenagers, is hard. It is. It is. It is. It's hard, dude. Anxiety uh riddled. They they they want the independence of an adult, but they have the mind of a child. And so, and they're rebellious by nature. nature. nature. I got this. You don't even know what you're doing. How do you You actually know nothing. Do you realize you know nothing? I love I love argue with teenagers. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean it's crazy how early that is.

How ingrained that is in because I my son said that to my wife last night. Mom, I got this. You know what I'm saying? It was over something, you know, whatever. But it's like the fact that they they're they already start doing that years old. You know what I'm saying? Like I got this mom. It's so hard too because when you want you want to tell them like no no this is this is how it works. you know, like half the time telling them is like makes them harden even more.

Yeah. And you got to let them work through it, too. So, it's like I've had to really check myself a lot of times with that. Uh cuz I I will like, you know, try and squash his energy with that. Like, well, you don't know what you're doing. I'm like, let him figure it out. Let him work through it. Let him stumble. stumble. stumble. My favorite is you have every one of your kids try to like tell you like figure out how much it would cost to like live on their own.

They have no idea. Oh, Oh, well, if I made this much money Oh, you you you wouldn't be able to pay rent in a room, bro. I know. I know. I know. You think you got money? That's that's why I really liked uh what book was that that I read? I wish uh it's I' I've recommended it on the on the podcast before, but it talked about the the four stages of of raising the kids. kids. kids. Oh, I got to read that one. The coaching and you guys and that's you guys are coaching phase.

And really, when you think about it, that's good coach. It's like you you tell a game changer for me. you know that with my daughter it's been a game chang you're like a coach you're you're not daddy mode anymore you're not telling them what to do all the time it's like hey you do this this and this this will happen you you play the you show the play play play here's a potential consequence that's right you show the play I'm going to let you figure it out and you know we're going to run you you encourage why they should run the play this way and then when they veer off and do their own thing and they get tackled behind the line or they get hurt or the thing happens it's like that's why dad told you this is the play it's been such a game changer lessons for me and my daughter cuz I actually had to verbalize it to her like listen we're moving in a new phase.

It's the coaching phase and there was a period there where it was like is this actually working cuz she's but then I'd sit down with her said look uh I'm not going to tell you you have to do this right right right remember we're in the coaching phase but you need to hear me because if I feel like you're not hearing me and if you feel like you're just shutting me down then we're going to go backwards and we're going to go to the other phase where I force you and it's actually it's actually improved our relationship.

I think it's a great idea to communicate even to the kid like letting them know that. I think that's a great I didn't know you did that. I think that's a great a great idea is to be like, "Hey, that we're I I recognize that we're transitioning from me being daddy tell you what to do all the time to you want to learn things, do things on your own, and I I can appreciate that. I love that the language is more like might I make a suggestion." suggestion." suggestion." Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. That's like my new verdict. Yeah. Yeah. Or let me tell you how that played out for dad and go. I I definitely gave him a lot bigger area that he can uh venture out and have adventures and and do his thing, but it's at home we're just like I mean you're and we're also That's cuz you track your kids. You're also talking You also track your kids. Nobody knew where we were going. I know. I don't. My wife does. And then I find out I'm like, "Oh, what's he doing way over there?" Yeah.

It Yeah. It Yeah. It That's the part that trips me out is like how much we cuz he my buddy Mike, they have Air Tag on his kid, too. So it's like so they can see when he's going beyond where he was told to. So that so it's like this now you're challenged with this like do I say something? Do I say something? He's not you know well it only affects me cuz like then it gets dark and like I have to go pick him up my truck cuz you got to take the bike and put it in the truck then his friend and you know it becomes like I'm like look you brought me into this.

The the whole idea is for you to have that freedom and independence. You come back you do the right thing and you get to do it again. Now you know we're not going to have that much freedom and you have to earn it back. Yeah. Yeah, Yeah. Yeah, Yeah. Yeah, I think about some of the stuff I did when I was a teenager, like when we would ride off. Now, we'd have electric bikes, but we had our regular bike, but we would take off and we would do things, man.

I look back, I'm like, you know, how do you guys both make peace? How do you guys both make peace with this also? Because you also know that. So, imagine you have the kid who's the opposite who who listens to everything, doesn't go beyond because I think about this from my perspective because my kid seems to be different with a lot of the stuff. And my fear is I also know that the the the those traits that you guys both have and you see in your kids are also the things that made you great entrepreneurs and successful at life cuz you were willing to stretch the boundaries to think outside the box to not just fall in line with what the other people say.

Like there's some characteristics that come with that. with that. with that. More than that, Adam, when you look at the data on it, cuz that's that could definitely happen. But you know what the data shows more often than not is that they're going to go through a rebellious phase. And so if they don't do it as teenagers then they do it in college or or or or I'd rather it be now or I have a lot of friends like this. I have friends like this who are doctors.

Okay. So they were very regimented, very disciplined. Call it then they wow out when they get the and then when they finally are done with medical school now I'm going to go through my rebellion 30. That's I mean that's a recipe for Peter Pan syndrome, right? I mean that's like what how that ends up happening to a lot of probably have that. Now, how do So, we're dealing the perspective from the husband, right? I imagine this is even more difficult for the wives to let to let go and let and like a lot of the risky stuff especially too.

And like he it's funny cuz like I love it cuz he he's back into climbing on things and you know like he he'll go on these uh bridges and things that are super sketchy and I'm like h you know like and Courtney will find out about it. But, you know, I I'm just glad that he's adventuring and like being in the world and doing these things. So, I'm like, you know, I'm okay with some of these risks he's taking. You know, that it's dangerous. He could get hurt and and this and that.

But, so I prefer that that that's an example of where you can be more relaxed and she's probably more freaked out. Where's the flip of that? Where is she more relaxed and you're a little more and she's like, "Hey, dude, calm down. He'll be okay." Like is there is there an example that or she almost always that way and you're almost always one who's more like that and same thing for you S like is is there a push and pull for you guys where there are certain things uh she's more relaxed about and you're more h like over and she's like hey chill out let him let him figure it out and or is it is it all things cuz obviously the resting trying to think of an example I'll guess I'll guess I bet it's probably when you show a lot of anger then she knows she needs to calm down.

I'll bet that's probably when it kicks in. in. in. Oh when I'm angry with him. Yeah. When you start to lose it, she's probably like, "Well, okay." Oh, yeah. She Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She calms me down with when it's like uh I I I use that as something to like capture attention and like snap out of like his state like so I don't I don't raise my voice unless it's like very intentional. Uh but yeah, I do do that sometimes. She it freaks her out. It scares her, you know, sometimes because I'll I'll let that out just to let everybody know I got teeth, you know, and it's like, you know, there's consequence.

There is there is value to that though too. I think uh a great way to communicate that is to when you do it intentional and you're detached from the emotion. It's a very powerful tool. Right. Right. Right. When you do it in a response emotionally is when it's bad. Right. So that's remove the reaction of it. Right. Right. Like uh but that's hard. Oh, of course. No, that's a discipline. Yeah. No, that's a a very different I think that I I was trying to think of like an example with like uh girls in relationship and all that and I'm more like you know don't even worry about all that like you know that'll come down the road and like I'm not trying to like make it happen where he's going to hang out and go on a date or like you know and she's all like yeah like how's how's it going with so and so and you know like she gets all into the relationship side of it and I'm just like dude stop asking him about that you know like he'll figure it out.

Yeah this is a distraction. You'll need this right now, son. Yeah, that's like my energy. my energy. my energy. I think you're right. I think you're the right one to that kind of stuff. Total distraction when you're a kid. Oh, totally. Yeah. I mean, but she likes she loves the idea of him, you know, having a relationship with a girl and and I I appreciate that cuz until the girl does something mean to him. I'm sure then mama bear is going to come. come. come. Now, are you the opposite in your house?

Because uh so um my sister-in-law and brother-in-law are the opposite here. the uh my sister-in-law is the one who lets the kids climb the trees, fall, bruise themselves, whatever. And my brother-in-law is more like boundaries, overprotective that way. You seem like that to me. It depends. I mean, it really does depend on on the situation. I would say we we have a different dynamic with the little ones than we do with my daughter cuz my daughter's with us every other week. Plus, she has her mom.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Who's also involved. So Jessica has a parental uh definitely a parental role with my daughter, but she's also got this which I think it's an advantage is she kind of gets to be the cool stepmom, you know, where she can kind of step in and have those conversations, right? He almost fell naturally into the coaching phase versus you had to transition from being daddy daddy every and then also just to you know being divorced having her half the time like that causes its own challenges like you know you want to discipline but I see you I didn't see you last week and so now you're here a window a window a window yeah and like what do we do well how often does that happen where and it what's more like where because you have that since that's an interesting dynamic for me to ask about is that is that is that um you know you're wanting your daughter to explore something or you're wanting her to to fall on her own or allow it and then your ex is like, "No." Like how often does that happen where you don't you guys don't agree with like like either restricting restricting something or boundaries or allow Oh, I got to be careful what I say here because I don't want to uh put too much out there.

But I would say like right now we're looking at colleges even though she's not, you know, she's not going to be going for a couple years. But I'm much more interested in the culture of the college than I am how cool it is or how nice it is or or even what she thinks she wants. I'm interested more in the culture because I think that's super influential uh on a kid whereas, you know, my ex-wife is more like more like more like where she want to go.

Yeah. Where does she want to go? And this is a great college. Maybe that's the one she wanted to go to that she didn't go to. Maybe there's a piece of that. But so there's so there's some disagreement. Oh, that's an interesting one, bro. I feel like you lose that no matter what. No. No. Because No, because I pay. Yeah. So that's, you know, boom. Uh, that's a great response. that's a great response. Uh, my first initial is like, "Oh, bro, you definitely you lose that." Well, actually, I write the book and check me.

I don't have to I don't I don't want to pull it, but if I have to cool, you can go to go to that one. Yeah, you pay for it. She can go to that one. one. one. Oh my god, what a good point. Oh my god. I was like, you think you're going to win that one, bro? You're losing that one for sure. I write the check. Yeah. So, Yeah. So, Yeah. So, ultimately, that's a trump card. I'll weigh all that out, you know. Don't don't get me wrong.

And it's it's a little while from now, so maybe things will change, but that's funny. that's funny. that's funny. Yeah, we're going to go look at some, in fact, in a month. I won't say where they are cuz it's just out of privacy, but we'll be looking. It is the time, though, cuz Yeah, my oldest is the same age, and he's he's interested in looking at colleges right now. now. now. Yeah. But, you know, there's there's a culture on campuses and different colleges have different Well, that's cool in general.

Totally. Totally. Totally. Yeah, that's that's cool in general. But I had this I heard this argument about I was talking to friends about this and I heard this argument like, "Oh, there's bad cult kids and good kids in every college." Yeah, I know that's true. Okay, I get it. You can go to the best culture, but still run into the wrong crowd, but the odds are better. Like, let's not forget like the odds are better. better. better. I think as a dad, I'd have a hard time with um is if my daughter or son is wanting to go to school or like their three best friends or two or three best friends are going and they want to go to that school.

Even though it may not be my favorite school for them to go to, but it's where their best friends are going that they went to high school with and grew up with. That makes a difference cuz that would make a hard versus she's going off to somewhere where she's starting all over no matter what and she really wants to go to this place and I'm like, I don't know about Chico State or Arizona State or whatever this state is. I think I'd rather you go this direction.

direction. direction. That's good for them though. You know, that's also that I think cuz I mean for me it was transformative. It was like I think we don't have that right of passage anymore. And I think if we can look at college as like maybe an extension of that, it's like you got to go off and and reinvent yourself. That's there's there's so much potential value in that. I mean, you could reinvent I also think that has a lot to do with probably you both evaluating their friends currently too though, right?

Of course. Like I don't want you to I think they'll still reconnect. Like I you know, I don't know. It depends. Of course. My my my best friend and I go all the way back to fourth grade. So and so and my other one all the way back to nth grade. Of course you can. So I I'm definitely somebody who believes that we can and I went different states all the things, right? So So So but I think that if I if I liked my son's, you know, core group of buddies and they're like, "Hey, we're all going to Santa Barbara." Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, college after high school and he really huge. Yeah. I would I would have a really hard time. And let's say it's not my favorite. You know, there's another piece here that we're not even talking about, which I've never I kind of had this opinion before, but now even more so, especially in two years or four years. Uh, is it necessary? Oh, yeah. No, I definitely do. Is it necessary to go to college? This is what I fight with Courtney. Oh, yeah. Because the ROI on I don't think it's in a lot of cases is not worth it.

Like in a lot of situations, the degree you get is not worth the cost that you spent. you would have been better off maybe not going. Y and there's a lot of things now you can go learn in college that I'm looking at AI and I'm like bro by the time you graduate graduate graduate it'll be interesting they better shift yeah their options cuz Totally. Well that's what I was going to say Justin it's going to be interesting how you tackle that where cuz you it's a weird time especially especially when they if what your kid tells you that they want to go do and study.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Right. Right. Cuz if they give you some that matters big time. Yeah. I feel like that totally matters cuz it's like that Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. to get them in a in a mentorship internship somewhere where it's a direct placement, you know, for something that they want to do. I think it's such a better path. better path. better path. I've been talking to my daughter about like businesses that require people. So like do you like cuz she kind of wants to work with people.

So I'm like okay those those there's certain careers that will probably always need that like uh occupational therapy, physical therapy, maybe even you know uh you know cognitive behavioral therapy where you're working with a person. Uh, and I'm sure regulations will prevent AI from doing that kind of stuff. Like that that I could see that potential. But like, bro, it was just just six years ago going to school for coding was like this is the best thing you could do. Now they're like, don't do that.

Irrelevant. Irrelevant. Irrelevant. You know, did you know that there I'm watching interviews. I've seen a couple interviews or clips of people in tech who run these big companies and they're like, "Oh, our we have our coders haven't written a single line of code since December." What? I imagine my I imagine one of the most popular degrees in the next two to four years is going to be uh AI degrees degrees in like the ability to program run and and by the time they graduate that's going to be irrelevant.

That's what I'm trying to say dude. It's changing so quick. I mean maybe but let's if you know each the one Yeah. But the ones that studied it are going to be on the front line of knowing how that's going to impact to impact to impact either that or if you love it. Why don't you go learn it? Yeah. But then the CEOs just be able to do everything. do everything. do everything. Yeah. Why don't you just go learn it? Go learn it on your own right now.

Because whenever they come out with another version, which is like, you know, however months later, six months later, that's that's easy for 40 something year old us to say like tell that to a tell that to a 17-year-old. Yeah. Go teach yourself this. Like, yeah, good luck. Well, I mean, if they're into it, that's part of that's part of the big benefit, too, is like I mean, I remember when I was 17, like I didn't know for sure what I had ideas. Uh I mean, I went through I'm going to be an architect.

I'm going to be a lawyer. I'm going to be a physical therapist. like I went through a lot of different things I was going to be or what I wasn't sure I almost went almost enlisted you know so it's like you know part of the the the you know part of the the the good part of the college I'd say still is that ability to still try different classes meet different people with different opinions and views and maybe backgrounds with different dads and moms that have jobs that it's like and just being exposed to other things that maybe you and your little bubble would have never thought you would I wonder if the future of being enlisted is they're going to look at your resume and you're going to be like, "Oh, Call of Duty level." Yes.

I say, "Yes, bro. 100%." Drones like be like, "Oh, you're level 56 in Call of Duty." Yeah, you're in. You're in, dude. Come on in. That's going to be so wild. That's weird to think about. All right, let's change let's change directions here real quick cuz uh I was looking up the the toxins that they find in farmed fish versus wild caught. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. It's pretty bad. Bad. It's so bad. Don't they change the the fish changes sex in the in there sometimes?

Yes. Sometimes. So like higher in heavy metals. Pesticides. Pesticides. Pesticides. You can't really win though, right? Say what? Say what? Say what? You can't really win cuz even the ocean like deep sea fish now they're they have to find better ways to farm fish, I think. And you're right. Like that's the one place we we get meat in the wild. the wild. the wild. Like we don't do that anymore anywhere else. We don't hunt cows. Do you Doug, can you pull up a screen shot too?

Uh, I know that they do this with farm fish. You know, they dye the the fish to so it will look like it's meat. Yeah. meat. Yeah. meat. Yeah. Like how like Yeah. How like how different does it look if they didn't die? die? die? What's What's crazy to me is there's a dramatic difference in the taste of just farmed salmon versus wild salmon. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I if you put them next to and I ate each one and I didn't know any better, I'd be like, "This is different fish." And it's like the fat content of the It's the fat content, the fat am like the fat amount, the the fatty acid profile.

profile. profile. Yeah. The profile. It's all so different, you know? That's crazy. crazy. crazy. That's not saying it's unhealthy, but it's definitely better to go far. Far farmed farmed farmed salmon are not injected with diet. They are fed pigments. That's what it is. They're fed pigments. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But while some often synthetic pigments are added to feed. Oh, so there you go. Same difference. Same difference. Same difference. Give them red red number 40. Well, I mean, one of the unknown things that Butcher Box does uh because we talk all about other grass-fed meat all the time, their heritage pork.

They have a great selection of farmed uh fish. I still got to smoke mine. I've got farm fish. Wild fish. I'm sorry. Wild fish. Sorry. Thanks, Doug. You have a great selection. This is what I was a wild You have a great selection of wild caught fish. They don't sell farm. It's all one wild. I have some in my freezer right now that I that I got from them that I haven't I've been telling Dougmon. I want to I want to smoke it. Yeah. I want to I haven't I haven't I haven't personally smoked salmon.

smoked salmon. smoked salmon. When you smoke salmon, you're not cooking it, right? Or Yeah, you are. It is. It's just it with with smoke. Yeah. Yeah. It's a slow I Yeah. Yeah. It's a slow I mean, in my opinion, it's the I rarely ever use my gas grill ever. Almost only if I'm like if I'm in a hurry to cook cook meat for something or maybe because I'm smoking on one and I'm using it for something else that I'm using the gas grill for. But slow cooking meat over smoke is such a a a You know what you know Doug taught me in regards to salmon?

years ago, we went to an advertising uh like I don't know what it was, convention or something like that uh course down in San Diego, and he was ordering salmon. I never heard somebody say this before. You order steak, what you what they ask you the temperature, right? Medium rare, whatever. Yeah. whatever. Yeah. whatever. Yeah. He'd be like, I'll have a salmon uh and I want it medium rare. I'm like, you could say that with fish. And so I started doing that. Oh my god, it's way better.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my god, it's way better. Yeah. They don't even ask you. They just cook it. That, bro. Salmon is salmon cooked medium is delicious delicious delicious cuz overcooked fish is dry. Dry. Dry. Dry. Yeah, it's dry. Yeah. Yeah. And you can eat fish raw. I mean, if you like salmon sashimi, then like why not have it on the almost the raw side and you're probably better better off. Again, too, this is why I want to smoke it cuz I like I smoke it to like a kind of a raw.

Yeah. And that's I was we were before we got on air. I didn't even know today was Butcher Box. M. It would Doug and I were talking about talking about talking about juicy. juicy. juicy. Yeah. We're talking about salmon asking where you can get it like that. Like I I I'll do it. And then I'll I'll do it. And then I'll report back. My goal is to do it before the next. the next. the next. I got to show you guys. I'm going to share this with you, Doug, so you can put it up on the screen.

Do you guys want to see the the coolest? This is not AI. This is a real. It's confirmed. It's a Russian wrestler. Uh Bos get is I can't even say his name. Forget it. I'm not going to say his name. Spell. name. Spell. name. Spell. Doug, put up put on the screen this move that he did with 3 seconds left in the match. So 3 seconds left. He's down. Okay. and he does this move, bro. And I, by the way, I will argue this all day long that I think overall general athleticism, I think wrestlers, highle wrestlers are the best displays.

I know. I can't disagree. Well, we see that in in UFC still with all these mixed martial arts. The guys that have the high pedigrees in wrestling almost always are animals. Okay. Oh, click on that and then and then and then uh different kind of human. Okay, watch this. This is with 3 seconds left. Watch what he does. Ready? Jumps. Oh, Oh, Oh, what in the boom flipped over him? Jumps over him, gets him in a body lock, and then and then and then That's sick.

That's sick. I've never even seen that before. I Yeah. I Yeah. I Yeah. Was that just like a spontaneous idea? And he just jumped. Well, that's a real move. That's a real move. I've never seen anybody do. If you go over the top of someone, jump over. So, you bring your feet over and then you twist and do this kind of like But he did it from a jump. So he wasn't like on top of the guy and then he did it from a jump. What a sick move.

Like the Saquon Barkley twist your body. Yeah. What a sick move. sick move. sick move. Side suplex or whatever. Did you just That pop up in your feed. It's going viral, right? So So my speaking of algorithms, my algorithm often has times I'll have wrestling and judo on there cuz I love I mean that's a cool move right there. cool that's a cool move right there. Isn't that rad? Yeah. Yeah. That's super That's super. All right. I got some studies to pull up on uh Manukora honey.

um some really cool studies on monukora honey which is uh kind of wild. So um I'm going to go through some of these the healing honey they should call it that that that bro. Uh bro. Uh bro. Uh I want to try it on a cut. Dude experiment with that. I do man. You put it on postsurgical wounds and you get a a you heal faster. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. It shortens healing times for burns and surgical wounds. So if you have a burn, put monora honey on it, put a band-aid over it.

It'll heal faster. Uh it's good. It's also delicious. Don't lick it off, bro. It's also good for gingivitis. So, yeah, dude. So, if you have like inflamed gums or whatever, you could I know cuz of the sugar. No, it's the MGO and I think it's called Is it MGO that's in there? That is uh antimicrobial. I don't know if it's cuz I have caps, but sometimes I get like bloody, you know, gums like that. You're just you're greeting your do everything hard to eat rocks. Uh, did you guys know that honey uh was more effective than over-the-counter cough suppressants for kids?

No way. No way. No way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's a 2010 study because it coats the throat. Uh, no. It actually is a compound more effective than the cough syrup for kids. So, they have stronger cough stuff for adults, but so there are compounds in honey that actually uh affect the part of the brain that causes the cough reflex. Oh, I see. Okay. So, it calms it down. It actually it actually reduces the cough reflex. cough reflex. cough reflex. Interesting. What what is the what's the prescription?

Just one one teaspoon of honey. honey. honey. Yeah. And some Yeah. And a couple times a day. a day. a day. And next time Max gets a cough. I'm so tastes good. I'm going to I know. I'm still going to try that versus giving some cough syrup that put it in like lemon tea. Just let him take it straight off the spoon. spoon. spoon. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I mean it's not like it it tastes good. Hot water lemon. You don't you don't you don't got to hide it or anything like that.

It's also good for H pylori. So if you have H pylori issues in the gut or gut issues that due to inflammation, uh consuming it is good for that. I made it. It's like nature's I know it's nature's remedy. We we just went through uh colds in our household like what is it a couple weeks ago when we were all talking on the show and uh I made Katrina and I hot totties with the honey. Yeah. I love that. I did that. Actually was it's whiskey.

it's whiskey. it's whiskey. You know that's the first time. Yeah. Yeah. And lime and like I fresh Yeah. Yeah. Fresh squeezed lime, whiskey, and then uh water, and then the honey. Okay. Okay. Okay. And then you could actually put a little bit I I did twice. You put the cinnamon stick and then I put a cinnamon stick in there. there. there. They used to give that to I think they used to give that to kids when they had coughs. coughs. coughs. I dude I I have actually never shot a whiskey for whiskey for whiskey for so only cuz recently like alcohol has been a part of my life, right, since we've been doing this.

Uh I not I've never done that. I have never made a hot totty when I don't feel good. It's never thought I've never thought I would want alcohol when I wasn't feeling good. And I'm like, you know, I'm going to make myself one. I knew I had the Monura honey, so I'm like, I'll use that. I had I have a lime or lemon tree, so I did a fresh squeeze lemon. It was like Katrina was like, "Oh my god, I feel this feels so good." All the ingredients in it like Yeah.

besides go-to move for me the next time I have. I have. I have. Not a bad call. You might have to do that. that. that. How many you have to have before you feel better? feel better? feel better? I mean, I had two. But you I mean, I had two. But you can make them pretty stiff. You know what I'm saying? So, and the and the cinnamon stick is if you if you like I made the first one with no no cinnamon, just water. And then I made another one uh where I did a cinnamon stick and then I did another time with uh apple cider which has kind of a cinnamony flavor too instead of the water.

Okay. So, if someone who doesn't can't handle the straight whiskey water, this is more like a hot cider. Yeah. So, like probably like if like if you were I love that brand. scraper. You did it for people right there, dude. I wanted to hear your uh money and happiness. Uh oh, I'll bring it up again cuz I saw you posting your story and I wanted to argue with you. Yeah. No, no, this is so so No, this is there's d there's a lot of data around there.

Loves there. Loves there. Loves when you argue. Yeah. No, there's a lot of data. You've seen this before. I've shared this data before, but uh so uh they've done a lot of studies on money and happiness. And the reason why they do these studies is when people besides the necessities because you need money for things that are necessary and a certain amount to feel secure, right? So above and beyond that, um people still oftenimes desire more money. I want to make more money. And you know, when you boil it down and you ask people like, "Why do you want more money?" It all boils down to I I think it'll make me happier.

Now, it might start out by saying, "Well, I want a bigger house or I want a new car. I want to go on this vacation." But then you keep asking why. Why? Why? Why? Why? And it's because well I it'll make me happier. So they've done lot actually lots of studies on this on what's the best ROI on money for happiness. So so what's the best use of this extra money where you're going to get the most happiness in return. Okay. And so giving it away and so well yeah see thanks for giving it away.

it away. it away. Yeah, no problem. The end of the story but so they they they've tested it with the worst is to buy things. That's the worst. So buying something you get a spike in happiness but then you can't repeat that. So if you buy the same thing again there's no effect and then the happiness wears off quickly and then it flat lines. So you buy a new purse, you buy cool shoes or whatever. Um and for the most part generally what we see in the data is you get this like spike and it drops down quickly and then nothing else.

And then if you repeat it again it's like a drug. Uh you just get no effect, right? Get the same exact purse again there's no spike in happiness. Then the second which is better is experiences. So this is where you spend on like a vacation because you create memories as you're going. going. going. Yes. And so you see a longer uh happiness spike and then when you think about that depending on what happened the more meaningful the experience the better the reoccurring happiness from thinking about it.

Nonetheless you still get this diminishing return over time. So I keep thinking about it unless it was profound experience like this is when I met my wife or this is when I had my child or something like that. You get this diminishing return and you still get this kind of like like a like a drugs like a like your body gets used to it. And so if I think about that vacation vacation vacation 20 years later uh unless it was this profound thing um I really don't get this happiness again.

And then the last one which was wild is now there's some some parameters around it but the last one is if you use your money in a way where you voluntarily give it to someone to help them and if you really want to maximize this according to the data you see the outcome. So like you have a friend who's struggling uh evicted from their house or they're sick and they need medical bills and then you're able to step in and help them and then you see so not passively but you're like following it all the way through.

Yeah. Then what they you get this you get this high spike in happiness that lasts a long time and then what they in these studies as long as they follow the people. So however long the study is every time they recall that event they get a similar spike in happiness with no drug. So it's like hey remember that time we we we you know helped that you know that our friend uh in that situation or hey remember when we donated to those to help feed the poor or we did that mission trip?

They get the same spike. And so if your ROI if what you're interested in is happiness uh the best ROI based on the data uh is to give it away which I think is really really interesting. really interesting. really interesting. So I I I knew where you were going to go with that. It's why I wanted you to talk about it cuz I've thought a lot about this and this and this and I I think independent of each of those things that that make sense logically.

But I also think that there's a way that all three of those can be fed. Give you an example. What do you mean fed? I'll give you an example. Well, meaning like a materialistic thing that gives the other two. Oh, Oh, Oh, so I'll give you an example. Okay. Uh an example of that would be uh you know Katrina and I could have spent the rest of our lives in a you know a little condo that her me grew up in and instead I I bought a house, right?

Mhm. right? Mhm. right? Mhm. And this house, I designed it in a way and I bought it a certain way. And one of the most amazing parts about it is that um it fits all of Katrina's family in it and we can all and we've I mean we've thrown at least 10 or 15 parties in less than a year. So like once a month practically where I host 30 40 50 of my family. One of my favorite things to do. Totally. So it's like uh it's it is a materialistic thing, right?

thing, right? thing, right? Yeah. But that's not what's giving you the happiness, the happiness, the happiness, right? So right? So right? So it's enabling the thing that right. So so like like I think uh like um comparing uh those three cycles like I would say my shoes falls in that category. category. category. Sure. Sure. Sure. Cuz once you buy one then you're on to the next one. Whatever. It's like only serves me. You know what I'm saying? It's like very But there's things like and then I would even make the argument like my buddy and I who's a who's a car nut like who's he's been in cars for a long time.

uh longer even longer than I have and we were having lunch one day after a drive and uh these these kids it was there's two special needs kids came up talking to us and they pulled out and they were oh they're so excited and we both let him get in and out of the car and stuff like that and him and I were make having this conversation that that's one of my favorite parts about that that that right right right it like the initial enjoyment of the purchase and the drive of it once you've done all the cool things in it but actually one of the gift that keeps giving about it is being able to share that experience to someone who's like I've never sat in or driven in one of these.

And so I I don't think it's as simple as just like you can't get any of these other benefits from material things. What they call it is um uh god there's a term for it. It's like if it uh if there's a social component that's not the term that they use. So like an example would be like a guy who is pursuing pursuing pursuing growing his business because he wants to make more money but he uses that money to I don't know I'll use an extreme example build orphanages.

right now. He's got incredible happiness from building his business, right? right? right? So, yeah, I think you could tie lots of like like lots of different things. That's why I said with the experience, I think it depends what happens in the experience. experience. experience. Like, oh man, I went on this trip with my wife or you at the time we were dating and this is when I proposed to her and so then you know, you remember that type of deal. So it's true but generally speaking I and I know this because uh or I think this is people believe this maybe maybe not consciously but subconsciously maybe even sometimes consciously because uh companies advertise to us what profit what what gives them profit which is to buy things.

things. things. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the way that they sell it to us is they don't sell us the thing. They sell us the dream of what the thing provides. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is happiness, freedom, status. You know, it's never like the purse. It's like the purse, but the people see it. Now you feel like you're more important or or or Well, remember that's I remember I I I've shared with you before on the podcast the uh the exercise that I do with myself before I make a purchase.

There's there's like boundaries for you like yeah 24 hours before I I I won't I won't make then the next question is is this something that I feel like I got to show to everybody else or is this something for me like right so there's a lot of layers that because of that reason because I know that I can be advertise market to impulsive about something and just simply creating those boundaries makes me really think about that but I mean like using the house example it's like man I I feel like it's it's also a gift too so it's like this it's a gift it's an experience and it's a materialistic It's all three of those.

It's like and nobody in my family in our family has the the ability to have a house like that that can host and do all that. So, it's almost like every time that's a great point. Imagine having your big place and not being around any family, family, family, right? How how empty would they? Totally. Totally. And so, and and and by the way, I I learned this lesson. So, I mean, I know the la last podcast we were te te teasing me about my bath. This is the like me my house is not that big.

Yeah. I had a much bigger I've had a much bigger u arguably fancier place with views and everything to live, but we were just far enough away from family. Nobody came over. And I remember Katrina and I being like, what is this for? for? for? We got this cool place, you know, and maybe on Instagram it would look cool to show people, but it's like if if I'm not using it to enjoy family, do that, then it defeats the purpose. And so being where we're at in a smaller place that's filled with love and people and to know that you that every time I do that it's like it's like I get to give a gift again and I get to experience something again.

It's like so there's like to me there's a a fine line because I feel like there can be very extreme people on both ends. There can be this you know I'm I'm all material and status direction you're going and then there can be the like nothing matters like money doesn't matter. I find it interesting like if you look at uh yeah I mean you're right 100%. Uh but I think a lot I think more people struggle with the first part if they real maybe they don't realize it but if they really did an analysis it's like man do I need all this stuff and what do I think I'm going to get from getting these things and what happens is like it's a feedback loop.

It's like I got this thing I got the little spike of happiness. It's gone. It's not happening again. Let me try getting something else. By the way, the data shows on the other side too. When people give to help others, they are then they start to do it more because they start to feel it and realize it. And so it kind of becomes this positive this positive this positive Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. uh feedback loop. So I think it's it's really I think it's fascinating.

It's interesting because interesting because interesting because I don't think a lot of people realize that. But if you really think about it, you're like, what do I want with this? Like I got my stuff taken care of. What do I want with this extra money? What do I really want? I just want to be happy. I feel secure already. I got my savings. We're good, good, good, but what do I want from be happy? Okay, let me see. Let me try it this way. way. way.

Yeah. Do you do you ever challenge yourself because do you or do you ever think of yourself on on one side or that extreme or the other and challenge yourself to go outside that a little bit? Cuz I I'll be the first to admit that the first 30 years I was probably somebody who leaned on that. You know, I had to learn that lesson and maybe a little bit before 30 cuz I was doing things like the the stuff that, you know, that I've done before for families and things like that.

And I and I got to feel that and that was a big which by the way I think for anybody that's such a great exercise like if you've never done something like that regardless of what what level you're at it doesn't have you don't have to be at a super super level. In fact, I would argue because even when I did that way back when, I wasn't in a a major financial status to where I had lots of extra money to go give. Like it I think it felt really good knowing that I didn't and actually still did that and being able to draw back on that memory of doing something for families like that and go like, "Wow, I could still think about that and get that spike, you know, a decade and a half, two decades later or whatever." So, I think that helps pull that back in a little bit.

And then just becoming aware of as you stack up some of those material things. I think my my sneakers are a good example of that. Very aware of the, you know, ridiculousness of of of that, right? Like, and it doesn't give it. There is no nobody else is getting enjoyment. There's no real experiences other than it being on my damn feet that, you know what I'm saying? Like, you should give them away. I have I've given a lot of Oh, yeah. A lot of my shoes I've given away.

A ton of my shoes I've given away. Uh, so, um, yeah. So, I But I do think there's also that I mean, do you ever challenge yourself? like yourself? like yourself? like you know I would say I mean I have uh boy I have challenges in a lot of different areas but I thank God that this one is for me for whatever reason it's never been an issue it never been like a challenge maybe because I grew up feeling secure in this way um it was never a big deal with my family I think um so you know when it comes to like money in that way I've never felt um challenges there um thank god I have challenges in a lot of areas uh where I really struggle.

But that's one where I I I thank God every day like, okay, this is not one that I I is a problem because I could see that one being a hard one, especially if you become successful. I could see that being a real um challenge for some people or not being successful. I think that would be even harder. Yeah. Yeah. Imagine being challenged that way. And also uh feeling like like like Well, I think that's where a lot of people land. I think a lot of people land in that place of like constantly chasing this this Well, look at the the debt people have with like just buying cars.

Yeah. Like the average car payment insane. insane. insane. It's crazy. And and most people have it shouldn't even own that car. But what are they doing it for? And I think there's they bought this kind of idea. Yeah. Did you see I I shared with you I think you guys Chris Nibby's like on like the credit card debt of like it's unbelievable what uh we're in right now with like and the the ability now to defer like food and defer like your rent. Like that's crazy.

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In fact, it gives you 1.9 CEUs with or for your NASM certification. Find out more at mindpunfitnesscoaching.com. Our first caller is Benjamin from Switzerland. Switzerland. Switzerland. Hey Benjamin, how you doing man? Hey, how are you guys? Good, good. How can we help you? So, bit of context here. It's a two-part question, but a few years ago, basically, I lost a substantial amount of weight. Um, and so it was a great benefit for my life, but I eventually pushed things way too far, uh, with training volume, running, intensity, and especially the whole like calorie tracking aspect of things, which basically saw my hormones, energy, and just a lot of blood markers kind of just completely tank.

And so for the last few years, it's really been more of like a uphill battle in a way of trying to rebuild my body, uh my relationship with it, uh but also just managing overall stress better, especially with I'm kind of leading two to three careers at the same time. So that's definitely a challenge. Um I've run quite a few of your programs over the past couple years. Uh right now I'm doing performance again. not too sure if I should stick with it, but uh it seemed like a decent fit.

And so my goals right now basically are to try and put on some muscle again cuz I feel like I've been spinning my wheels. Um but without overdoing the volume. Uh I've been very into mobility and like handstand trainings also. trainings also. trainings also. and recently did pick running backup, which I know sounds counterintuitive, but I've really focused more on just the joy of it, uh, without tracking metrics too much, and I've been loving it so far. So, yeah, more than anything, I think to be honest, it's more about getting back to feeling like the little ball of energy I used to be known for being being, I guess.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so yeah, good question. So, um, in your email it says you lost over 100 pounds. Yeah. Uh, in the space of around two years I lost, uh, around 135 lbs. Great job. Oh, you look great, dude. Great job, man. And, um, and so now the main goal is I just want to feel better and have more energy. Yeah, I think obviously the muscle and all that like that's something that will come with time, but it really is just like you said the daily energy, just feeling good.

Um, and whether that's also with my relationship with uh food, exercise, and it's gone so much better already, but obviously it's always a work in progress. And then you said you have about three careers going on right now. Can you explain that a little bit? So, um, basically I'm a professional musician. I'm a chist. Um so I'm a performing soloist uh after having done my postgrad in that. Uh but at the same time uh I'm working in my family business uh which is uh dermatology but also longevity clinic now.

Uh so I'm working in that aspect of things and studying uh to become a health coach at the same time to kind of mend the two together. together. together. Okay. So this is a lot of work. Okay. So this is a lot of work. Yeah. Yeah. Long days. Okay. Okay. Uh so losing that much weight is a is profoundly transformational, but also it's a big deal on the body. Um you lost the whole human um off your body and what it takes to get there is not where you want to stay to maintain and you're probably feeling the low energy because you're just you're just doing too much.

And you want to go through a period of rejuvenation and rebuilding. And you're going to need to go through this period for probably a year or two before you start to ramp things up and and chase different goals. So you got to you're going to have to go through a period of rest essentially. Now that doesn't mean you don't exercise, but everything that you do is kind of moving in that direction or centered uh towards that or aiming towards that. And what you'll notice from that is more energy.

So less is more uh with this uh process. Um you know MAPS 15 would be your strength training protocol. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um if you really really love running uh I guess it's okay. Uh uh but I if you want the energy I would walk and just focus on steps. I would just make sure you're fueled if you're going to do that running like where where I mean you don't want to be running and really low calorie too. That would be a really bad recipe. um running with with the proper amount of nutrients and calories for for the enjoyment of it, I could see.

Okay. But if I was training you, I'd want to know where we're at calorie-wise before I let you go run and do that. I mean, kind of where Sal's going and where my brain goes with where you're at in your life. You did such an incredible job getting down to where you are. You're very you're you're in a much healthier, fitter place. Your workouts should try your your workouts actually shouldn't be your focus. your focus should be kind of the career, your passions, staying healthy, and so you should train to to be that person.

You've you've done such a good job getting here. And then all the other things, the the energy, hormone stuff, all that stuff will balance itself out because you work out to support your lifestyle and what you're doing, not to get to a certain place. You're at a place in your life where you have a lot of stuff going on. you've already accomplished the big the big rock, which was getting all that weight off your body and putting yourself in a healthy weight. Now, now what what like your workout optimization looks like is is really doing the the least amount to elicit the most change, which is just the minimal dose that keeps you strong, uh get you good rest, keeps you mobile, um but not trying to stretch yourself and like hit these goals goals goals and trying to gain a bunch of muscle or get really good at BJJ or it's like that that's what's going to optimize you for longevity.

And Benjamin, that doesn't mean you're always going to be there, right? Right. right? Right. right? Right. Okay. Cuz this period of your time, right? right? right? This is a season. So to put it differently, differently, differently, you went through a radical physical um and psychological transformation losing all that weight. And so now your body needs to go through a period of rest. That was a radical change. So like like when I work with a woman who gets pregnant and has a baby, they're always like, "How quickly can I get back in shape?

How fast can I get back to high?" I was like, "Well, hold We just went through a radical change. It's going to Now, that doesn't mean you don't progress afterwards, but it's going to take a couple years before you start to like feel like, oh, like I'm back to my old self because that radical change. Your change was massive. 135 lb weight loss loss loss physically is a big deal, but it's also psychologically a big deal. Like, your mind had to change quite a bit to go from where you were to where you're at now.

Uh, now. So now you got to go through a period of of of rest and recuperation, which is probably going to look like a year or two, which also, by the way, though, is the fastest path to you feeling better. You white knuckling, though, you white knuckling it and trying to work your way back to a healthier version of yourself is not going to work. No. No. No. So, this is not like one of those things. It's like, can I do this and can I do that?

Can I do this to get to me to feel this way. It's like honestly the less you do in this situation and focus just on healthy rest, recovery, doing as little as possible to build some strength and that's what it looks like. So this is not one of those things of what are all the things I can do to get there faster. The fastest path actually looks like the kind of laying off like what Sal's alluding to right now. That is the fastest path. And I think you'll see positive changes relatively quick uh before I I think he's setting the table so you have to set your expectations right that this could take a year or so to get back to feeling like the best version of you.

But yeah, you could you could start to feel that right away and a lot sooner, but it's not through doing more. Yeah. The reason the reason why I'm saying a year or two is because you are going to feel better quickly and you might be fooled into thinking now I can ramp things back up because if you if you started following Maps 15 right now and you did no additional strength training, no additional workouts and all you did was maps 15 and walk. Okay, no extra exercise, no running, no calisthenics, no BJJ, no BJJ, no BJJ, no nothing.

just just walk every day, make sure I get, you know, 8 to 10,000 steps, and then my lifting looks like maps 15, which is like two lift. Energy be through the roof. Within within a month, you're going to notice an increase uh in energy, and you're going to feel good. And then you're going to be fooled into thinking, "Okay, now I can ramp it back up." What I'm saying to you is you got to have a year of that, a year of feeling good, a year of that rest before you start to ramp things up.

Maybe even two years, because that's 135 pounds is not nothing. Most people don't even get close to that weight loss. You literally lost an entire human. So, so that's the direction you want to go. And the reason why you feel like you're doing these things, but your energy isn't energy isn't energy isn't good, is uh because it's time now to let your body settle after all that massive uh shift. Uh because if you keep pushing, which by the way, pushing isn't going to look like a lot.

So, because you may judge it, you may think, well, this is not that much. I know people who work out like that. Yeah, but they didn't lose 135 pounds. So give yourself like a year or two of sitting in that rest and then I promise you it's going to be like, "Oh man, I can start ramping things up and you'll be a brand new person." Yeah. It's it's funny because like I obviously and it's what we always say like I know deep down that that's exactly what I would tell others.

And it's always harder and it's always way Yeah. We we never follow our like own advice and that's why I already I've now it's been what maybe eight or eight months maybe or so that I I decided to put BJJ on the side and that was tough like I I really fell in love with it and it also it was one of my outlets in the beginning to kind of shift my focus away from all the calorie tracking and all that and it gave me this kind of focus that I mean you've talked about it of like just performance and that kind of aspect.

But I realized that it's still not the right moment. Uh and I'll pick it back up, I'm sure, later on. Yeah. on. Yeah. on. Yeah. Um, but that that was kind of I I know that was rough for me, but if I if I'm honest with myself, like I know that over the past 4 years uh since I lost that weight, like I've hovered around the same five kilos, which is maybe like 10 lbs of like trying these like kind of bulks, but then stopping a bit shy because I felt uncomfortable with it.

Um, also from my perspective, there's perspective, there's perspective, there's a side of it is always hard to judge in terms of I know I like this obviously some loose skin and stuff like that. So judging like also where I'm at body wise like uh like body fat percent and all that is that is that is objectively deceiving. Uh and that often is a barrier in itself to you know just trust the process. And I've really worked since like September or so to just stay on I I set this goal of whatever happens like I'm not going to do anything too drastic in terms of trying to even approaching the holidays.

It's the first time I didn't approach it with a cut or anything. So like I've done huge improvements in terms of that. But it's always Yeah, it's it's something I know like it will take time. I'm just trying to navigate kind of this How do I Yeah, the the working out in terms of terms of terms of Benjamin, Benjamin, Benjamin, I know you don't need much. Let me encourage you. Let me encourage you. Okay. What you did to lose 135 pounds is a lot harder than what you need to do right now.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. You're being really hard on yourself. Number two, I've never seen somebody lose over 100 pounds and look as good as you do. Great. Great. Great. Like never. Like never. Like never. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you sent some pictures. I'm like muscular. I mean, and yeah, you talk about loose skin, like you look really like you your body bounced better than I've ever seen. Yeah. And I've worked with a lot of people who've had some pretty radical transformations through beriatric surgeries and the like.

Uh so you're you're doing great. Uh here's here's the deal, okay? You're afraid of going back to where you were before. Um and I get that. Here's how you should approach your nutrition. your nutrition. your nutrition. Stop tracking. Eat until you're satisfied. Eat whole foods. Hit your protein. That's it. That's it. Don't weigh yourself because that's going to mess you up. And try not to study yourself in the mirror or take pictures of yourself too much with your shirt off. off. off. And don't try and feel good.

Don't try and bulk or cut. Feed the body when it's hungry. It's a beautiful thing when it'll tell you how much when you're getting healthy and you're strength training with like a Maps 15. It will tell you when it needs more calories to build that muscle and it'll tell you when you're satisfied and fine. It's a beautiful thing. beautiful thing. beautiful thing. So long as it's whole natural foods, you can trust your satiety signals. much more. So, you just eat whole natural foods, hit your protein targets, which is your body weight and protein.

Eat that first. Follow mass 15 and just walk. Two lifts a day, you're good. That's it, dude. And it Yeah, it's going to be hard, but it's I'm telling you right now, it is what you went through to get here. Way harder, dude. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're being really I think you're just got some fear uh because you're maybe afraid of going back to where you were before, whatever, but I don't think that's going to happen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And like I think uh it's kind of part two of the question if that's all right.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um I think uh you hit a right note that about the fear is that like I'm very aware of it but there's in a sense also a bit of imposter syndrome. I think uh because a big thing for me right now like a massive goal and like driving purpose in my life which I've always had from playing uh the cello you know performing for people it's I want to help people and like serve and in this case I basically want to help them avoid the mistakes that I made along the way and so like I know that everyone goes through their struggles but there's that aspect of aspect of aspect of I'm still struggling with certain things.

Uh and I'm very honest about it. I have no issue talking about it. Uh but managing that kind of reality of things while also being able to help others uh in their life journeys and transformations. Um transformations. Um transformations. Um lean into it. Lean into it, Benjamin. That'll make you better. Lean into it. Yeah, I you you've been listening to the show for a long time. Yeah, I Yeah, I Yeah, I I knew you were going to say that. That's of course I'm going to say I could have quoted you.

Yeah, because if you've listened for a long time, you know that's what makes this show is that uh we're not afraid to share our struggles, the things today, still today, you know, what we go through and our mishaps and what we learned and how silly and stupid we were before and how we keep making mistakes. People connect with that and people will resonate with that and they'll they'll respect that. So, lean into that. Lean into where you're at in your journey. Where you get imposter syndrome is when you try and pretend you're something you're not.

And and people will appreciate the vulnerability and appreci what you've accomplished already is amazing and can help so many people from from your story. Don't try and pretend like you have all the answers and you've figured it all out. Let them know then you'll be an imposter. That's right. Then you'll feel imposter syndrome. Be who you are and where you're at and open with what you're still trying to figure out. And that is what will resonate with the people that you're helping and you'll help way more people that way and you'll be far more successful if you come from that place.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I I started sharing actually some social media content like focused around cooking cuz I love cooking uh and giving like kind of healthier tips around that like meal prep uh like you often like I may have used you a couple times in terms of cooking batch meats a dinner before. Um, but yeah, trying to like cuz it's been a way to reclaim kind of power over food like the way that it controlled me and I'm trying to funnel that also. Um, but yeah, uh, I I know I'm stepping in the right direction.

It's more just kind of being able to strip things down uh, and get a clear view. view. view. Yeah, I have no I have a lot of confidence that you're going to do great. You're doing good, bro. Yeah, I think that the the discomfort you feel is because you're such a fast grower. It sounds like sounds like you're pretty rapid with personal growth when you kind of decide to go in a direction and that's always uncomfortable. But you're you're going you're doing great, bro. You're doing really really well.

Give yourself a good year of rest. So, that's how you approach your exercise. A good year of rest around food, which means you're not watching every bite. You're just eating when you feel hungry. Sticking to whole natural foods. Hit your protein first. That's your those are your guard your those are your guard rails. I think it's great if you help other people. I think that's one of the things that saved me uh from going too crazy uh was that I helped other people. Um and be honest and be just totally honest.

Make you a better coach, better trainer. That's it. That's it. Yeah, you're doing great, dude. dude. dude. Yeah. And I just wanted to say uh yeah, thanks for all the stories also that you guys share. I know recently, Adam, everything you've been talking about, like it just like what I want to be able to provide to others, like it really does help give a lot of a more human like approach to this. Um, so I think it's Yeah, it's amazing what you guys have been doing.

Awesome. Thank you. You're going to do great, brother. great, brother. great, brother. Yeah. Do you have maps 15? Do you have any of those programs? I'll send some. Uh, so actually I do have uh 15, but I was wondering if maybe to make Justin happy also. Uh, do you reckon Matt's 15 performance could be something to look at? at? at? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I'll send it to you. They're both great. You'll love them. Thank you so much. Yep. You got it, dude. Good.

Good. Good. All right, buddy. If I can ask one last little suggestion. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, you guys should consider doing uh some sort of like maps inner or maps inner circle program with Jordan S once. Yeah, great dude. I'm sure that's something a lot of people would love. Awesome. We love Jordan. Yeah, he's great. great. great. For sure, man. He's great. All right, Benjamin, take it easy, brother. Keep it up. up. up. All right. All right. All right. Uh, by the way, his uh the way he looks after losing 135 pounds like best.

I know. It's crazy. Cuz 135 lbs is huge. Yeah, it's massive. Uh, you got to you got to go through Look, you go through a drastic dramatic first of all, losing 30 lbs of body fat is a big change mentally, physically. 135 pounds. Yeah. Yeah, you're you're going to need a year to just sit in it and just let your body your body your body rest recuperate. rest recuperate. rest recuperate. You were chasing for that whole time. It's really good that we had a discussion around that because I know what you mean when you say that.

Uh but I think a lot of people hear that and they think a year I got to wait a year to see results. Yeah. To feel. Yeah. You know, I just think that it's or just think it's going to be that long until they feel good at all. It's like, no, you'll feel you'll feel better and better every week. And then then then you got to just wait a year. And you're right. What happens to people is is is they start off the right path uh by taking the advice and then a month or two later, they're like, "Oh, I feel great." And then they start to ramp it up and they go right back.

And so that's really the advice is that listen, you're going to be feeling going to be you're going to be feeling really good pretty quick. You know, a couple couple months of taking that advice, walking and eating like that and and training mass 15. Yeah. he'll be huming 30 60 days he's going to be feeling really good. Uh what the what he doesn't know is that his body is not really good yet and needs to stay in that place for a year and that's going to be the the hard part is the temptation to want to ramp up and do more.

Our next caller is Jana from Texas. Hi Jana. Hi Jana. Hi Jana. How you doing Janet? Hello. How are y'all today? Good. Good. Good. Good. How can we help you? Well um it's a great pleasure to have this opportunity to visit with y'all today. Um, I've got some notes so that I can attempt to keep this concise because I will tell y'all that I had dreams of what I would discuss with y'all had I won the spend the day with Mike in your winner in y'all's winter raffle.

So, today is actually my second chat with you guys. Um, I'm a member of your muscle mommy group and I got to visit with you guys in that first week when I was contemplating some goals. Um, back in the fall, I ended up going in a different direction after the chat, but it was based on some feedback that I received from Adam about what I thought I wanted to do and what it was going to take to do that. And I changed uh course. Although I would say I will probably go back to that in a upcoming season because y'all released Powerlift 15 and um that I'm excited about that in the future.

So there's my plug for mind pump advertising all the things. appreciate it. appreciate it. appreciate it. So, so the email that was picked for the podcast, um, I'm going to say I would be remiss if I did not acknowledge that there's an aesthetic aspect to my fitness and there's also some ego associated wanting to go after PRs, but I'm currently sitting in the midst of my 40s with realistic barriers and limitations to going after audacious goals in this phase of my life. So, I have recently shifted in the last few years to a mindset of curiosity, and it's been a fun and fulfilling way to stay motivated and diff and disciplined.

Um, it's kind of my version of seeking excellence in a season where I'm pulled in a lot of different directions. As a person who enjoys lifting weights and cardio, mainly running and cycling, my interest was peaked when S started talking about an unconventional way to combine cardio and lifting. Um, and then when he actually said, "Hey, I want to do this." I said, "You know what? This is my time. Shoot your shot. Just reach out and say, how do you realistically do something like this?" I'm coming from a different angle from S.

Um because I enjoy um lifting weights and doing cardio equally. Um I've been trying to find a good balance over the last few years, but I continue to find myself fatigued, more fatigued than invigorated. um with the alternating days um protocol. Um so I thought it would be a fun way to challenge myself to actually try going a cardio week and a strength week. And then at the time you had not um started your journey s and I thought you know what let's um I wanted to challenge you and say as a female in a similar stage of life as you um let's set some metrics and see what we can accomplish if we stuck to this for an actual season.

Um since writing the email I finished MAPS hit which followed your muscle mommy 15 programming. Um, my very first program was within the per was within your catalog was performance. Um, recommended to me actually by a physical therapist friend. So, shout out to Justin because most of those mobility days exposed a lot of my body's bad habits. So, I'm currently in week two of Symmetry 15 and in the final phase of rebuilding some body mechanics issues that I had related to running. It seemed to me like the perfect time to try alternating weeks to see if I can keep working on my strength while also rebuilding um an aerobic base.

base. base. Okay, good. So, all right. How many days a week do you like to go to the gym? Um I actually work out from home and um what I've been doing is I kind of took the um parameters of the performance, the three days a week. So, I combined days one and two, three and four, five and six, and then I do day seven, one of the days on the weekend. So really um I'm currently in the really doing the strength training aspect about three times a week.

Okay. And then uh cardio-wise uh what do you like to do for cardio? You said you enjoy doing it. What do you like? Um it's mainly running. Running or running or cycling and I've kept I've got a pretty low um base right now. So it's like you know probably four time three or four times a week probably four to four to seven miles is kind of my um is my current long run. But I'm us I'm I've got a goal to try to get a baseline of 20 miles a week.

All right. And then uh how's your recovery ability, sleep, and all that stuff? How do you feel with your volume? Um sleep sleep is very good. Um my nutrition is good. Um I usually actually when I increase my mileage, my um my nutrition goes up. I eat a lot more. Um cardio has always been something that actually stimulates my appetite. So I don't have to worry about the the undereating part. Um, my biggest limitation is probably time. And I think that's also the problem with alternating days is because I try to do too much quality in my strength days and then go quality in my um cardio days.

Um, and there's really I don't have a lot of room for the I try to do super intense all the time. I think I think I think Yeah, you're doing too much. Okay. So, so generally speaking, what it would look like is the one week would be just strength training, three days a week. All you're going to do is three full body workouts. You're not doing anything else. anything else. anything else. The following week, you're doing three cardio days. Two of them are going to be steady state.

This is where you're going for your long runs or your long cycles. One of them is going to be more hit style where you're practicing your sprints and it's going to be very short. So, it'll take you 25, 30 minutes. And that's it. That's it. and you're just going to alternate from one to the other. So, three full body workouts, right? right? right? The following week, three cardio days. Two of those are steady state. One of them you're doing the hit style sprinting, which can be done on a bike, or if you have good running mechanics, it would be sprints.

Now, the sprints look like this. You sprint all out for 20 seconds or so, and then you walk and rest until you're ready to sprint again. So, however long that takes. And you repeat that like four or five times. I like I like the MAPS uh 15 performance protocol that you're following right now as you're strength training because I think because of what you brought up with mobility and stuff. I think that's that's a good program to follow for you. Keep doing that. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. Okay. And it's just every other week. Okay. Well, right now I'm doing um I I've done performance and performance 15. I'm currently I've just started symmetry. I've been doing the Yeah. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, that's good. good. good. But with this I could probably switch from the symmetry 15 and actually do the full symmetry. full symmetry. full symmetry. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How many days a week is is map symmetry full symmetry? Is it three? Three, I believe, or four. or four. or four. Depends the phase.

Yeah. Yeah. So, so with symmetry, you would do it one week and then one week off. And the off week would be the week where you're just doing cardio. Okay. Okay. Okay. That's that's literally it. And and I'd love to have you back on in 60 days to get to get some feedback on how you feel and all that. Yeah. And I'll I'll do it. Sounds like Good. Let's have you back on in 60 days. Let us know how it goes. Sounds great. Thank you guys.

You got it. All right. All right. I mean, I I might at some point, you know, with you guys create a program and protocol like this, but just to be clear, for me, none of this is performance-based. None of it is to try to improve my aesthetics. I'm not doing it because I I want dramatic increases in in any kind of performance. I'm trying to break the the chains of my addiction to strength training. Yeah. Uh so that's it. And I'll report back on on what I noticed, but I'm not like trying to get No.

And and to be fair, if we do kind of construct and create this, I would like to run it as a performance element to that as well, so we can compare if I wrote because most people would want it for that. Most people, this is attractive if just like she said, I love strength training. I love doing cardio stuff. stuff. stuff. That's exactly what I would do. Yeah. So, So, So, in fact, I have some good ideas around it. I have We'll have to experiment with that.

It's a good idea. One version I have is more strength focused. Uh one version I have is more cardio focus. cardio focus. cardio focus. Oh, that would be cool. You could really you could you could you could That's right. So it's one is version is for someone who wants both but likes the cardio. cardio. cardio. The other version is someone who likes the muscle and strength and so they're and so but they're both alternating. Yeah. Yeah. That's smart. I like that. Our next caller is Cyra from Nevada.

Hi Cyra. Hi Cyra. Hi Cyra. How you doing Syra? Hi. Hi. Hi. How's it going? How can we help you? Well, um I sent in quite a story, but basically just was going to boil it down to three important things. Um for for one, I have a tendency to overtrain. Um I didn't tell you that my with my jiu-jitsu background, I um I usually train about six days a week, but I recently had to dial it back the holidays for a whole month. So, um, my three questions are I want to keep working out with my husband over years who started working out with me again and so I don't want to ruin that vibe that we have going on and but I also have some things that I need to work on like my shoulders.

I ripped my shoulders with my boys at the lake. Um, I ripped completely. So, if I don't keep on them, I notice that I start having pain again. Um, I want to keep my jiu-jitsu schedule. I coach jiu-jitsu 5 days a week, so it's important to me. And also, I love the mountains, so I need to spend time out in the mountains running or hiking. So, those are the important things I want to keep doing, but I um I'm not there right now. I'm only training jiu-jitsu three days a week.

I weightlift with my husband twice a week. Um, but that's where I'm at. And I want to be able to add all the stuff back in without overtraining. without overtraining. without overtraining. Well, you're adding all the stuff back in would be overtraining. Where you're at right now is perfect. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Three that where you're at right now. Yeah. Where you're at right now is perfect. Adding back in means you're overtraining. I mean, you're right. You're already right there anyways. Like this uh this uh this uh three days a week of BJJ plus two days of strength training is 14,000.

Yeah. Plus 14,000 steps a day is already redlinining. redlinining. redlinining. any more than that is we got to take away from the other overtraining injury city uh sleep disruption no results all you know all all the things so what's the question is the question can I add more training or is the question question question change like a different goal well well well yeah so I also sent in a photo of myself because um I do carry more fat than I would like to um it's not the most important thing important thing the most important thing is staying active.

The most important thing for me is staying healthy. I'm 50, so um and I have grandkids now, so I just want to be able to keep up with everybody. everybody. everybody. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um my kids, I have kids that train jiu-jitsu also, so adult sons, so I like to join them sometimes. But um and like I said, my shoulders, I've been off for a month. Um and I've noticed I started having issues with them again. So that I need to add back in. I know that.

So how can I keep my weight training with my husband at the two days a week? I get what you guys are saying. I know. Like I want to go six times a week, but it it's really unrealistic and I know that I got sick from doing that. So yeah. Yeah. No, it's very unrealistic. Um you're already you're already I get what you're saying. I guess um mobility mobility mobility there's a whole lot to it. We we well there's no there's like Okay. So you're you're already doing a great routine like because you like BJJ and it sounds like that's a big part of your life.

So we wouldn't mess with that. All invested in you like training strength training with your husband. I'm we're all pro that. I love that. And I love that even uh even if uh like what it might look like if I was coaching you is like depending on how your body is feeling. uh one of those days with him you're really going easy and the other days when you're kind of getting after it out of those two days because that's that's plenty of intensity before you guys get into your weightlifting routine.

A good uh mobility routine around your shoulders would be a optimal way to always start that lifting routine and then try and do that throughout the week uh to keep those shoulders healthy. So that's what that would look like. Um I would do stuff out of our Prime Pro. I don't know if Do you have Prime Pro? Yes, I do. Okay. So, Okay. So, Okay. So, yeah, I do the shoulder mobility, shoulder and scapular mobility stuff on there daily. there daily. there daily. Daily. Daily. Daily.

That'll help. That'll help. That'll help. Okay. Yeah. And I haven't done it daily. I've only um like I hit it three days a week um when I was doing it consistently. Um I did like doing like the overhead press and um I haven't added that back in because that's not something he'll do, but it's probably not ne I don't know. you I sent what I was doing for workout. Do do you think I need to add more weight for, you know, shoulder work or should I just do the mobility?

the mobility? the mobility? Do Do you have it, Doug? That she said she sent in her workout. I don't see it up there. up there. up there. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Let Let me take a look at it. Yeah, let's see what it looks like here. Um, box squats, dumbbell press, dumbbell rows, day two squats, reverse curls, reverse like barbell skull crushers. It's It's fine. Um, I would add mobility. mobility. mobility. I think a big part of your routine should be Yeah. should be mobility and I would do 10 to 15 minutes of it uh once or twice a day every day.

I mean, an easy an easy thing for us is to let us send you maps performance and just do it two days of the week. So, we have maps performance two days a week. We also have mobility days in there. So, if you were to do anything else, it would be those mobility days. So, that's what I That's an easy one. So, what what what would be an easy solution is we're going to send you maps performance. It's it calls for three days of lifting and then two mobility days.

Only do two of the lifting days. Two foundation days. The two foundational days. Okay. You you're more than welcome to do the if you're going to do more stuff, do more mobility stuff. So follow the mobility stuff. mobility stuff. mobility stuff. Focus on your upper body. So shoulder, scapula stuff. So that's that's where you'd put your focus on on the mobility and follow that the way it's laid out. Uh you'll get tremendous benefit from what you're looking for. I do want to address something you said just because you said it because if you're my client, this would be a longer conversation more than once probably.

Um, you brought up aesthetics. aesthetics. aesthetics. Okay. Okay. Okay. Um, Um, Um, you the the way you are training, you're training more for longevity, health, and stren like like you if if you're trying to do Brazilian jiu-jitsu and you're trying to work out with your husband uh and then you're also like I want to do uh aesthetics, something's got to give. And I think you're in great shape. I think you would uh smoke 99% of anybody else your age at a lot of things. Uh the amount of steps you take with hiking and activities and jiu-jitsu, I think you're in great shape and are doing a hell of a job.

Uh especially if we take care of them shoulders. So if that's really desired outcome, that's now then if you said to me, Adam, I want to get this body fat percentage and look a certain way, then I'd say we would completely change the way we train to go after that goal. And we absolutely could do that, but that means we would we would modify jiu-jitsu and modify the other activities to do that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, So, So, in my opinion, not worth it. And totally not worth it.

It's not a worthwhile trade. You won't be happy. be happy. be happy. Okay. Well, I was going to say, could I do it seasonally? Maybe. Absolut absolutely. Absolut absolutely. Absolut absolutely. Absolutely. We could go through a phase where we go suffer longity. Yeah, we absolutely could go through like a three-month phase where you're like, "Hey, let's make aesthetics a priority and then we build a complete diet, workout routine, and movement schedule around changing your physique to a certain way." Could totally do that. This is also uh and I don't know where you're at.

This is where the value of like having a coach take you through this process is like I I would coach you through that, show you how to do that on certain seasons and then once we kind of gone through that, you get it and then you can do it the rest of your life. you're going to decide, you know what, every 3 months out of every year, I'm going to get in like the best physical shape I can get in, and that becomes my priority. The other nine months of the year, I'm balancing my jiu-jitsu, strength training, and stuff like that, and performance.

And and that's a very healthy, awesome way to schedule your year. year. year. As long as you're Yeah. comfortable pausing some of those other things and really like prioritizing, focusing on it, you know, for those three months, you would gain a lot of benefit from that. that. that. Yeah. But I'm gonna tell you this, my Here's my opinion on this. Uh, Cyrus, you love jiu-jitsu. You got your whole family involved. You're doing this workout with your husband. husband. husband. Uh, I don't think you're Uh, I don't think you're going to be happy going through seasons of trying to get cut and cutting the jiu-jitsu down and doing more bodybuilding and all that.

I don't think it's going to be a worthwhile trade. I think you'll try it a couple times. It's not worth it. It really isn't. If you need to try it, if you're fit, you're performing well, you look healthy, like you're fine. You're totally fine. Yeah. I think your issue is going to be overtraining. Yeah. overtraining. Yeah. overtraining. Yeah. I think your issue is always like not doing too much. That's the only thing you got to worry about. Okay. Well, I really appreciate you guys. You guys are awesome.

I love all your stories. your stories. your stories. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And um yeah, I I really appreciate. Now, I did buy your recent release. Um what was it called? Grade eight. Grade eight. Grade eight. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. I did buy that recent release cuz I thought, well, that would be okay. okay. okay. You could totally do that. The only difference is you're not doing you're not doing two days a week of strength training. You're doing one lift one lift a day.

So your husband and you would just do one lift a day together. That'd be a great program though, too. Yeah. I can only work out. Yeah. Okay. We can only work out twice a week together. week together. week together. You could do this. You could you could take the eight exercises and you could put four on one day and four on the other. other. other. That's going to fry her. You think? You think? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All those compound lifts in one day jiu-jitsu. It might fry you.

Yeah, maybe. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, maybe. There's a there's a fatigue component. I do try not to lift on the days that I do jiu-jitsu. do jiu-jitsu. do jiu-jitsu. So, yeah, So, yeah, So, yeah, like I'll make sure that I train. Although, I am fried like the next day. Yeah, I think what you're doing is totally fine. And just watch the volume on the strength training and enjoy it with your husband. You're good. Your issue is going to be going too far. I think you know that.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. I do. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, I know that. All right. You guys are awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you, Syra. So are you. All right. Thank you. Yeah. Here's there's a fatigue component, right? So you take the grade A. A. A. Yeah. There's a lot. And you do all like you do four compound lifts in one day and with jiu-jitsu that's going to fry you, but like one a day. Well, I'm trying I'm trying to Well, you could you could do it to where there's only about two compound there's not it's not eight compound lives.

You have a situp in there as one of the eight. You have a windmill in there as one of the eight. So, it's really So, it' be two or three. But, you're But you're I mean, you're right. Like, I wouldn't I wouldn't My strong feeling is when you're doing an intense um any kind of intense athletic athletic athletic uh you know, routine jiu-jitsu or, you know, soccer or you're playing water polo that you could lift twice a week or you could do a little bit every day.

And even if the volume was controlled all the same, I would bet my No, no, I'm not. Obviously better, but she can't do that. She already she said that right away. And I could you could take I could take the eight and you could modify it. But it would have to modify it. You have to modify. But I'll tell you people listening tell you I'll tell you people listening right now this like uh if you love what you do and you're fit and healthy and you're doing a sport and you think, man, if I just lost 4% body fat, maybe I'll stop doing this thing I love for a little while to get the it's not worth it.

I guarantee you you'll come out and you won't be happy. She's a brown belt in jiu-jitsu. She hikes 14,000 steps a day. She said she's 50. She looks like she's 30. She's a grandma. You're She's kicking ass. You're fine, dude. Yeah. Yeah. So, it's like And but that's why I wanted to bring up the aesthetic thing because she said it. And I'm like, "Yeah, of course." Yeah. We could totally radically change your entire life and focus it around looking a certain way if you really wanted to, but then it would impede on these things that you've already said that you love.

It's like you're healthy. You're doing great. great. great. Our next caller is Katarina from New Jersey. Jersey. Jersey. Katarina, how you doing? Hi. Oh my god, you said it correctly. Yeah, that's my sister's name is Katarina and so is my grandmother. How can we help you? Nice to meet you guys. Yeah, so I guess I'll just jump into my email. Um, so I'm writing because I was overweight for many, many years. Um, I'm 5'2. I reached over 200 lb after infertility treatments, mis uh infertility treatments, miscarriage, pregnancy, breastfeeding, you name it.

Um, general physical toll of having kids. Um, I spent years dieting, trying to lose weight with limited success until one time that I saw myself holding my youngest and felt embarrassed to even share the picture out. Um, so I committed to myself in that moment that I would change and and I followed through. I lost about 50 lbs through consistent lifestyle changes including a very short stint like maybe like 3 4 months um on a GL a compound GLP1. During that time, I intentionally kept the dose real low.

Uh, I strength trained. Um, I was adamant about not sacrificing muscle during that time. Um, I was only on it for a few months, like I said, about a year. Um, after that weight loss, I began working with a personal trainer at a big box gym. Um, and I've been with him for over a year now. Um, working with him has completely unlocked my love for strength training. I'm like obsessed. Um, despite being young, he's only 23. Um, he's really focused on safety, recovery, long-term health, that kind of stuff.

Um, this past summer, it was the leanest I've ever been. Um, I felt strong, um, proud of my body. I was really excited to kind of feel good in my skin. Uh around late September of this past year, I noticed the scale starting to creep up. Um I wasn't really concerned at first. Uh but then I all started looking softer. Uh that tripped a lot of fear in me because I worked really hard to kind of get where I'm at. And I was terrified of getting the weight back.

Uh I consulted with a nutritionist and they basically said, "Okay, let's slash calories and knock out some protein as well." Um, so they took me down from what where I was, which was about 2200 calories, um, and 175 to 200 gram of protein, down to like 1,800 uh, calories and 150 g of protein. Um, for additional context, I train about five times a week, which is down from seven times a week because I was overtraining, as I'm sure you guys will tell me. Um, and um, I do low impact cardio uh, and like mobility work like twice a week.

Uh, after the calorie drop, I didn't see any drop, I didn't see any progress. I felt worse. Um I didn't look any better. Um and so after a couple weeks I said screw it, I'm going back to where I was. Um I went back up to 2200 calories. And since then I was hitting PRs like every day pretty much like PRs I felt great but I'm stuck. So I'm at the situation where performance-wise it's great but I do want to cut out that body fat that I put on the last like you know few months.

Um, and so I guess my question is how do we determine when to transition from maintenance back into a cut when you're doing so well in the gym and you're performing so well? Um, that's really my main question honestly, just mostly that. Well, let me encourage you. First of all, you're doing really well. I mean, you're working with a trainer. You've been consistent for a while. You're you're in a really good place. Oh, wow. You're really strong, too. I just saw your numbers. And you're really strong.

Holy cow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Wow, Wow. Wow, Wow. Wow, that's a that's a that's a super strong. You're doing great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So So I'm gonna I'm gonna answer the question uh in a second because it's a simple answer, but it's actually more complex uh than just the answer. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Um if if you're approaching this uh like you saw yourself in the picture and you're like, I need to change something. Um, if you're doing this because you are afraid of going back because that person in the picture has less value or um, I don't like the way I look.

I don't I you know, I hate that person. I dislike that. Um, then you're going to go through the rest of your life, this fitness journey is going to look up and down. down. down. So, as long as you can um remain in fear and control, you'll be on. At some points you'll get sick of that and you'll come off and then that's when you're going to do the up and down. So it's going to feel like it becomes overbearing. I'm going to loosen up a little bit, enjoy myself for a second.

Oh crap, scale went up. Let me hate myself a little bit more and bring myself back down. And that's going to get exhausting. So I'm going to tell you this right now. It'll get old uh soon if you stay on that path. So what you need to do is you really need to number one do this because even that person in the picture has value. You always have value. Okay? And you need you need to think of care taking care of yourself like what do I got to do to take care of myself like in a real way like like you're somebody you care about like if it's your kid I want to take care of this person.

this person. this person. So that's the root of it and it's it's I I just said it in in a minute. Uh but it's a it's a it's a constant journey and a constant selft talk. Um and you're with a trainer which is really good because they're going to help guide you along the way. As far as a cut is concerned and all that. I I don't think you should cut at 2200 calories maintenance. That's too low. Oh, it doesn't give us enough uh uh runway.

I think continue to strength train, continue to get stronger, continue to slowly increase your calories, and then cut from a higher place. I would like to cut once you get up to like 2,700 calories and you're doing okay and everything's stable, then I can bring you down to 2200 calories, and then we'll see some fat loss. But again, if you don't uh address like the the fear or any of the self-hate uh for how I used to be or I'm only valuable because now I'm fit.

If you don't address that, it's going to be like this forever. And I'm going to tell you right, it'll get old. It'll get so old at some point. You'll get so frustrated you'll stop. It'll revert back and then you'll do this on off type of thing. Um but again, I'm going to encourage you. You're on the right path. I think you're on the right path. I think your your strength training is good. I like that you stopped the cut. You're hitting the PRs and you're feeling better.

I think that was the right decision. Uh I would continue to slowly move up so we have some runway. some runway. some runway. Two questions. Have you uh tested your body fat? body fat? body fat? Yeah. So I I did a a bod pod thing like uh back in December. Um and I was at 22.6% 22.6% 22.6% body fat. Then um I also had access to an InBody scale at the gym, but I know it's like not super accurate those things. I have the numbers. In August of in August, I was at like 18.9% body fat and then November it was at 21.7.

Um so I mean I don't know how accurate that really is. Well, those are reading from two different things, right? Because the most important thing uh sorry the the a the August 18.9 and the November 21.7 is the same thing. the bod pod the 22.6 six. That was a different um different um different um Okay. What what what changed in that time where the the body fat percentage went up? went up? went up? Honestly, I don't know. And that's the thing like I track my macros.

I meal plan. I do all that stuff. I I didn't change my training. I that's kind of where I was at a loss where I I felt like I was doing the same things. And out of nowhere, I just started like body fat percentage going up, the scale went up, I gained like almost 10 pounds. Like I I really don't know. And again, I don't genuinely like I don't I don't care about the number on the scale. Like that's a I genuinely do not care. I'm not concerned about that.

I just see what I see. You know what I mean? So then the other question I had is uh blood work anytime recently. Do you know where your hormone levels and things are? are? are? Um I did do them uh probably in October, November. I'm actually due to have them done again. Um nothing was off the charts. The only thing that ever gets flagged is that my protein is high, which which which Yeah. What else? Because I eat a lot of protein. Yeah. Not really. Not really.

Not really. Regular period. Regular period. Regular period. No. Um, actually, I um haven't had a cycle since April of last year. Okay. Okay. Okay. Um, and I did talk to my gyno. I did talk and we put me on meds. Couldn't figure out I had ultrasounds. Couldn't figure out why. Um, so we still don't really know. really know. really know. Okay. So, this is Okay, this is where I was going with this. So you I I I don't know if you've been listening to the podcast lately, but for a while.

Yeah. Yeah. So I'm training Karen right now, who's one of our trainers. Uh we just got our our our our body fat test for the second time and uh totally devastated her. Uh and what happened? We'd gone from like 17% she was sitting floating around 17% body fat and uh shows that we put all fat on, no muscle, and we added like 10 lbs in the scale. And she's just like, "Oh." And what my theory is on this is I had to dramatically reduce her volume because she was training too high a volume at too low of a calorie for such a long period of time.

Um she didn't have reflection in her period, but I've seen I saw her test on her bone density. Her bone density was and so we'll see some things like this where bone density is really low or we'll see irregular periods or you'll see markers way off. And a lot of times it's this indicator that you've been training too high of volume at too low of a calorie for such a long time the body is just not responding. And you know what I had to tell her was you know I jumped the gun and had you body fat test again cuz I was so excited.

I thought she looked great and I thought we were hitting PRs like crazy in the gym. So I was like oh I'm going to hopefully show her a bunch of muscle she's added. But the truth is what's happened is we've just got her to a healthy place now. Like her her body fat percentage need to go up. the volume needed to come down. And now my theory is we keep heading down the track. We don't change anything. And that what she'll start to see is she'll start to build some muscle.

The muscle we we we want it to to correlate perfectly with I'm putting the work in. I'm doing the things the PRs are happening. So I should be adding muscle, but then when I check this, but it doesn't work that way. It's like how children grow. They don't grow at all for you know weeks and all they sprout up two two inches. And you know this as as a mother. Like that's the same thing with how your body responds sometimes with muscle. It's like you're doing all the right things.

We're not seeing the change that we want to see and then all of a sudden it's like bam, you have this week and you're like, "Oh [ __ ] I look way better." And so you could be in this this this stage right now where you're where you're coming from a 7 day a week trainer, low seven days a week of training, low calorie that you're kind of just getting healthy. And I think you're heading down the right path where your calories are. In fact, I to S's point, I would want to slowly increase your calories even though you don't feel like that's the right thing probably to do right now because of how you might feel, but that is the path.

The path is to continue to fuel your body so it gets healthier and then as it gets healthier, you're at a healthier place of calories. Hopefully, we see the period come back. That would be the big indicator. So, like the conversation I'm having with her is like I want to see that bone density get better. If I know that gets better, then all a sudden I bet you our body starts responding better. With yours, it's be would be like the period would be the conversation we're having is let's get that right.

And then I bet you you start to see the response from all the hard work that you put in gym. Nine out of 10 times a young woman with irregular cycle who exercises and tracks macros is overtraining and undereating. So 90% of the time if we cut your volume in half and bumped your calories, I' I I I would not I would I would be surprised if your period didn't come back within 40 days, 60 days. And the hardest part about this is back to the point I made of not this isn't like this linear perfect like you'll you'll go through an uncomfortable phase just like Karen's going through right now.

It's like she's she's going through an uncomfortable phase where she's like all I did was put on body fat. This feels terrible. It's like yeah our body is trying to get healthy again. Like we we need to get it completely healthy and then it will respond the way we want to. And so this it'll the difficult part will be the psychological part of this is the pathway. The pathway is to increase these calories, balance your reduce your training to more like a three-day a week full body type of routine.

If you want more activity, walk. Walking is fine. So like if you need to move, you need to do something. I'm super pro walk. Go for a walk. But as far as the intensity of training invol that probably 3 days a week is where you need to be. And then even and slowly inching calories up. And you'll go through a little uncomfortable phase for a little bit, but we know we're on the right path when the period comes back and becomes regular again. And then now your body is going to respond to you the way it's supposed to respond to you from the hard work that you're putting in.

You I saw you make a face when Adam brought that up. Um how Let me ask this. How long you been tracking your macros carefully? carefully? carefully? Uh like two years. What do you think's going to happen if you stop tracking or what are you afraid of? of? of? Getting the way back. You'll you'll never be that girl. A girl that's hitting the weights that you're hitting the weights right now. You will ne I don't care if you ate like a monster. Yeah. But for the just so you know, but we got to dig deeper cuz because here's here's probably what's happening.

You tell me if I'm wrong, okay? Maybe I'm wrong. I'm wrong. I'm wrong. But here's the fear. The fear is if I take my hands off of it, take my if I take my hands off of it, cuz this is you right now. I got my hands around it. If I take my hands around it, that that person inside me that I'm controlling is going to go crazy and just eat everything. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Listen, Listen, Listen, 100%. 100%. 100%. You You can't be healthy treating yourself that way.

It just doesn't work. You can't Let me put it to you this way. You can't tyrannize yourself to better health, which is what you're doing. That's what this is. If I don't put my hands around my neck of that person over there and just tell her what to do, the second I take it off, she's going to go crazy and eat whatever. So, I got to do this all the time. Uh, that's stressful. That's stressful. Uh, that's that's not a great that's not a um a healthy way to live.

So, uh, you know, tracking, I' I'd have you stop. I'd have you get off tracking. Now, here's what you do. You eat whole foods and you hit your protein and eat when you're hungry. with your training. I would cut the I would cut the volume down and uh and then take it from there and let yourself be scared. Otherwise, I'm going to tell you right now, uh what's going to happen is you're at some point, I don't know how long you'll stay. It depends on how stubborn you are, but you could be real stubborn and stay on this path really long time, and at some point you're just going to jump off because it's going to be like, I don't want to do this anymore.

anymore. anymore. H how how long uh are you are you prepaid on your training sessions with your trainer? like are you uh it's like every month but I mean I'm committed to working with him she can but the reason why I'm asking is is this is something that um we we specialize in like this is what our coaches and trainers like I'd say at least 60% of our clients are they they come to us for exactly what you're going through right now is and it's not because of the a trainer can't tell you go do these exercises or follow this meal plan.

It's the psychological part of like being able to communicate this product because that's going to be the hardest part for you. Like there I can tell by your your lifts you're a disciplined person. You're not afraid of a lot of hard work. Like that's not going to be it. It's going to be the the community. It's it's the reason why Karen has me. Karen's more knowledgeable than I am. But it's me. It's for it's for the conversation to hear it from somebody else. else. else. Are you with the trainer five days a week or you are they are No.

No. I work with him twice a week. There you go. Okay. So here's what we could do. You could continue doing your strength training with your trainer. Um, and then what if you want you could work with one one of our coaches for nutrition. And then the conversation with your trainer is, hey, I want to scale down my strength training. And so it'll probably look like two days with your trainer, one day on your own. And then the rest of it, you're just walking. And then take it from there.

And and and then increase your calories. We we got to get your here's the bottom line is we got to get your basil metabolic rate to go up before you could cut. cut. cut. We can't cut from 2,200 calories. And we also got to get your body optimal and healthy before it's going to risk it will when when if like the per the period the bone density those type of things are are are are bodies not optimal and healthy and when they're not optimal and healthy they won't respond body fat- wise and building muscle.

They will fighting your body and so you're and and you've done a great job this far of getting this far in spite of that. But the next level to this, the the the next level that you want, we have to first really do that. And it's like I said, it's the same conversation uh Karen and I are having right now. And and I and man, it just it breaks my heart cuz I know how what it's like to get that test and go like, man, what the hell?

We're doing all this work. We're we're on it. And it's like it's like, you know why? Because we still got to get healthy. We got we just we just are getting there and we haven't got the results back from all the hard work we've been putting in. And so there's that period of time you'll have to go through with the increasing the calories and just having somebody to kind of walk you through that. And then the other but the other side of this, let me tell you, is sick.

It's it's less work. It's the body. You're like, that's what I deserve. It's your period's regular. It's it's all stressful. It's all Yeah. It's not stressful. It's better. You eat you eat more. It's less work. Better physique. Everything's It's on the other side of that, right? Is it really is that? So, we just got to get there. Okay. All right. Thank you. Do you want somebody to call Do you want somebody to call you? you? you? So stress. So stress. So stress. Do you want somebody to call you from our team?

our team? our team? Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate it. All right. We'll do that. And uh I know it's disheartening because you're like, man, I thought I cut my training down and I was overtraining before. Yeah. And I I I honestly like the the hardest thing for me is going to be not train. I love I love lifting weights. Like I really like going to the gym and lifting weights. like it keeps my head on straight honestly. So like that that is going to be the hardest thing for me is going down even more.

Like even when I went from 7 to 5 I was like are you kidding me? kidding me? kidding me? Um yeah, Um yeah, Um yeah, you'll like it. You'll like it more. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you can still go to the gym. That's right. Still go to the gym. With someone like you, I still actually want you go to the gym and then what it looks like is I'm like, "Hey, you're going to walk on the treadmill for 45 minutes and then I'm going to have you do this like mobility routine for 20 minutes." And so you're still doing movement and you're still you're just not really hitting the weights intense for those those two other days.

other days. other days. That way you still you're in your routine. You still in your vibe whether you're like you're a music person or whatever. So I don't want to rip that off of you and be like, "Hey, you can't even go to the gym." Like no, I want you still going to the gym. do your thing, but we're just changing the like we need to pull back on. Listen, your stress bucket's overfilled and you've done really well by still getting results all the way there, but it we we've got to empty that out a little bit uh for it to start responding uh the way it should respond to you.

And during that process, it's a little bit of uncomfortable phase, but on the other side of it, it's amazing amazing amazing and you'll be so you'll like it more. You'll be so happy. You'll get better performance in the days you do lift as well, so you'll get to look forward to that. Yeah, I'll have somebody call you. All right. Thank you. I really appreciate it. And S, I just wanted to let you know I giggle every time you talk about your dad being in Italy and uh growing up with like a stick because that was my experience with my parents in Portugal.

Same thing. Like any anytime I would complain about anything, they'd be like, "Oh, I'm so I feel so bad for you. What's it like growing up with electricity and running water?" That's good stuff. That's a great You I appreciate what you guys do. You got it. Thanks. Thanks, Kathy. Yeah, she'll be she'll be all right. Uh, I think she'll do okay. It's hard. I mean, when we asked the period question, that's a pretty strong indication. I Well, this is where I I had a feeling. I had a feeling uh Well, I mean, God, this is top of mind for me because it just broke my heart uh yesterday to But she had to gain body fat and I and I sometimes I blame I blame myself because uh I I knew that, but then I mean I think I think she looks so awesome right now.

We're hitting PRs and I thought, damn, she's so strong. Yeah. I'm like, you know what? I I want to show her how much muscle she's probably put on already. And then what could have happened uh that I knew I was very well aware of could happen happened which is we just we just increased our body fat percentage which is was but it healthier and that's why the PRs were happening is because she's getting healthier but yet the better neural drive. Oh yeah. But the results aren't we haven't been paid back yet for it.

And so a better coach a better job of me would have been to delay that even longer. I should have waited another two or 3 months. that way when we did see the results, it was like it that time had passed. And so, uh, and this is kind of where she's at. Uh, you know, uh, hers is related to her period. And this is what happens is when you're when you're off hormonally like that, you're working against your body. And there's a period of time you'll have to go through to get healthy first.

That's right. That's right. That's right. Before it'll start to show you the results. results. results. All right. I know you like that episode. If you did, check this one out. 30% body fat. For men, this is way too high. This is actually a bit high for women as well. So, in today's episode, we're talking about how you can go from 30 to 10. What is 10% body fat? This is when you have a visible six-pack. Can you go from 30 to 10%? Yes, it's possible, but not if you guess along the way.

So, we're going to talk about how you can do that in today's episode. Now, there's a huge range, right, of like body types. Some people can run uh a little bit heavier uh and or a little bit higher