You Aren’t Chasing Success; You are Chasing Enoughness | Mark Dowdle

I'm just going to figure out how far I I'm just going to figure out how far I can actually go when I'm up against the can actually go when I'm up against the can actually go when I'm up against the best competitors in the sport. best competitors in the sport. best competitors in the sport. >> The man, [music] the myth, the legend, >> The man, [music] the myth, the legend, >> The man, [music] the myth, the legend, Mark Dottore. Mark Dottore. Mark Dottore. >> Ultra endurance athlete based in >> Ultra endurance athlete based in >> Ultra endurance athlete based in Minnesota. Minnesota. Minnesota. >> He has qualified for Team USA at Big's >> He has qualified for Team USA at Big's >> He has qualified for Team USA at Big's Backyard Ultra. Backyard Ultra. Backyard Ultra. >> You're a gifted athlete, but this is >> You're a gifted athlete, but this is >> You're a gifted athlete, but this is really a mindset story. We all have a really a mindset story. We all have a really a mindset story. We all have a choice [music] to make. One story is choice [music] to make. One story is choice [music] to make. One story is saying you're not good enough, and then saying you're not good enough, and then saying you're not good enough, and then there's another narrative where every there's another narrative where every there's another narrative where every step that I take is evidence that who I step that I take is evidence that who I step that I take is evidence that who I say I am is who I actually am. The story say I am is who I actually am. The story say I am is who I actually am. The story that you want [music] to write is in that you want [music] to write is in that you want [music] to write is in your hands. your hands. your hands. >> People ask me what tip I have for them >> People ask me what tip I have for them >> People ask me what tip I have for them running their backyard ultra. It really running their backyard ultra. It really running their backyard ultra. It really is So, Mark, it's super cool to meet you in So, Mark, it's super cool to meet you in the aftermath or in the midst of the BPN the aftermath or in the midst of the BPN the aftermath or in the midst of the BPN Backyard Ultra, I was getting so many Backyard Ultra, I was getting so many Backyard Ultra, I was getting so many messages from people like you got to get messages from people like you got to get messages from people like you got to get Mark on the show. You got to get Mark on Mark on the show. You got to get Mark on Mark on the show. You got to get Mark on the show. And Dan Churchill like the show. And Dan Churchill like the show. And Dan Churchill like FaceTimed me and he just went on like a FaceTimed me and he just went on like a FaceTimed me and he just went on like a diatribe about like how awesome you are diatribe about like how awesome you are diatribe about like how awesome you are and and how you'd be such a good guest and and how you'd be such a good guest and and how you'd be such a good guest and I already knew that you would be and and I already knew that you would be and and I already knew that you would be and I'm delighted that you're here today, I'm delighted that you're here today, I'm delighted that you're here today, man. Thanks for making the trip. man. Thanks for making the trip. man. Thanks for making the trip. >> Yeah, thanks for having me. It's uh it's >> Yeah, thanks for having me. It's uh it's >> Yeah, thanks for having me. It's uh it's cool to hear. So, you cut a very cool to hear. So, you cut a very cool to hear. So, you cut a very different kind of like figure in in uh different kind of like figure in in uh different kind of like figure in in uh in the ultra running community. You're a in the ultra running community. You're a in the ultra running community. You're a big dude, first of all, big dude, first of all, big dude, first of all, and you played you're like one of those and you played you're like one of those and you played you're like one of those guys that was good at all sports in high guys that was good at all sports in high guys that was good at all sports in high school and in college. Football, school and in college. Football, school and in college. Football, lacrosse, lacrosse, lacrosse, All-American in lacrosse in high school. All-American in lacrosse in high school. All-American in lacrosse in high school. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> All-State in football. >> All-State in football. >> All-State in football. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Played Division III football in college >> Played Division III football in college >> Played Division III football in college and lacrosse in college. and lacrosse in college. and lacrosse in college. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> But not track and field, not cross >> But not track and field, not cross >> But not track and field, not cross country. country. country. So, what happened? How did you get into So, what happened? How did you get into So, what happened? How did you get into running? What's the origin story there? running? What's the origin story there? running? What's the origin story there? >> Probably like most guys that come from >> Probably like most guys that come from >> Probably like most guys that come from my background, you hear David Goggins my background, you hear David Goggins my background, you hear David Goggins podcast and then you're just lit up. podcast and then you're just lit up. podcast and then you're just lit up. It was the spring of my senior year for It was the spring of my senior year for It was the spring of my senior year for a lacrosse. We had just done a road trip a lacrosse. We had just done a road trip a lacrosse. We had just done a road trip where we had played three games, lost where we had played three games, lost where we had played three games, lost two out of three games. I'm sitting in two out of three games. I'm sitting in two out of three games. I'm sitting in the back of the bus, the back of the bus, the back of the bus, throwing a pity party, moping about the throwing a pity party, moping about the throwing a pity party, moping about the direction of the season, direction of the season, direction of the season, how things are going to go, projecting how things are going to go, projecting how things are going to go, projecting all this negativity out into kind of all this negativity out into kind of all this negativity out into kind of the team, the energy. And my brother the team, the energy. And my brother the team, the energy. And my brother sent me sent me sent me the Joe Rogan David Goggins podcast the Joe Rogan David Goggins podcast the Joe Rogan David Goggins podcast where he talked about how, you know, he where he talked about how, you know, he where he talked about how, you know, he was running 100 miles on a track, 70 was running 100 miles on a track, 70 was running 100 miles on a track, 70 miles in, he's defecating down the back miles in, he's defecating down the back miles in, he's defecating down the back of his leg, he's pissing blood, and he of his leg, he's pissing blood, and he of his leg, he's pissing blood, and he gets back up with nothing but saltine gets back up with nothing but saltine gets back up with nothing but saltine crackers and and keeps running. crackers and and keeps running. crackers and and keeps running. And at that time, I was going through a And at that time, I was going through a And at that time, I was going through a lot of lot of lot of you know, trying to go through you know, trying to go through you know, trying to go through transformation from getting in trouble transformation from getting in trouble transformation from getting in trouble with alcohol multiple times in school with alcohol multiple times in school with alcohol multiple times in school and trying to figure out where my life and trying to figure out where my life and trying to figure out where my life was headed. And I saw this man transform was headed. And I saw this man transform was headed. And I saw this man transform his pain into something meaningful, like his pain into something meaningful, like his pain into something meaningful, like something with purpose, and and actually something with purpose, and and actually something with purpose, and and actually took action with it. And took action with it. And took action with it. And that is when I started like the first that is when I started like the first that is when I started like the first thing we did, I did when we got back to thing we did, I did when we got back to thing we did, I did when we got back to St. Paul at 2:00 in the morning was I St. Paul at 2:00 in the morning was I St. Paul at 2:00 in the morning was I went for a run. went for a run. went for a run. And then I started that process of just And then I started that process of just And then I started that process of just going out for a run at 4:00 in the going out for a run at 4:00 in the going out for a run at 4:00 in the morning because I was going to be the morning because I was going to be the morning because I was going to be the next David Goggins, you know. next David Goggins, you know. next David Goggins, you know. >> Who's going to carry the boats? >> Who's going to carry the boats? >> Who's going to carry the boats? >> and that [snorts] didn't last very long. >> and that [snorts] didn't last very long. >> and that [snorts] didn't last very long. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] But it was this process of sort of an But it was this process of sort of an But it was this process of sort of an identity search once sports was over. identity search once sports was over. identity search once sports was over. And honestly, this podcast was extremely And honestly, this podcast was extremely And honestly, this podcast was extremely beneficial because when I got to a point beneficial because when I got to a point beneficial because when I got to a point after school, after school, after school, >> [snorts] >> [snorts] >> [snorts] >> I listened to James Lawrence >> I listened to James Lawrence >> I listened to James Lawrence >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> and then I watched his 50-50-50 >> and then I watched his 50-50-50 >> and then I watched his 50-50-50 >> of the documentary. >> of the documentary. >> of the documentary. >> And I was sat on the couch and I was >> And I was sat on the couch and I was >> And I was sat on the couch and I was like, like, like, "That is what I want to do with the rest "That is what I want to do with the rest "That is what I want to do with the rest of my life." of my life." of my life." And I didn't recognize this until years And I didn't recognize this until years And I didn't recognize this until years later where I had the opportunity to later where I had the opportunity to later where I had the opportunity to grab lunch with James grab lunch with James grab lunch with James that I understood why. that I understood why. that I understood why. And it's because when he asked me, And it's because when he asked me, And it's because when he asked me, "Mark, what do you think I do for a "Mark, what do you think I do for a "Mark, what do you think I do for a living?" living?" living?" I'm like, "Well, you you're I'm like, "Well, you you're I'm like, "Well, you you're you do these insane endurance feats. You you do these insane endurance feats. You you do these insane endurance feats. You you suffer." you suffer." you suffer." And he said, And he said, And he said, "My job is to give people hope." "My job is to give people hope." "My job is to give people hope." >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And I remember as a 23-year-old kid >> And I remember as a 23-year-old kid >> And I remember as a 23-year-old kid sitting on the couch watching that sitting on the couch watching that sitting on the couch watching that documentary, that's exactly what it did documentary, that's exactly what it did documentary, that's exactly what it did for me. for me. for me. Is it gave me hope for a future where I Is it gave me hope for a future where I Is it gave me hope for a future where I could transform my pain into something could transform my pain into something could transform my pain into something meaningful. I could do it inwardly and meaningful. I could do it inwardly and meaningful. I could do it inwardly and outwardly. I could bring people along on outwardly. I could bring people along on outwardly. I could bring people along on this journey with me that could help this journey with me that could help this journey with me that could help them kind of confront the pain that they them kind of confront the pain that they them kind of confront the pain that they were going through as well. were going through as well. were going through as well. And the big thing that James had and has And the big thing that James had and has And the big thing that James had and has that someone like David Goggins doesn't that someone like David Goggins doesn't that someone like David Goggins doesn't or or or doesn't really show very often is doesn't really show very often is doesn't really show very often is the family. the family. the family. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Watching that 50-50-50 and watching all >> Watching that 50-50-50 and watching all >> Watching that 50-50-50 and watching all of his kids be there with him and going of his kids be there with him and going of his kids be there with him and going on this adventure and learning these on this adventure and learning these on this adventure and learning these life lessons and watching their dad life lessons and watching their dad life lessons and watching their dad struggle and then participating in it struggle and then participating in it struggle and then participating in it made me want that life. made me want that life. made me want that life. Um and I believe that I was capable of Um and I believe that I was capable of Um and I believe that I was capable of it. it. it. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. But you mentioned But you mentioned But you mentioned pain. You're you said something about pain. You're you said something about pain. You're you said something about how you could see through James's how you could see through James's how you could see through James's example how you could uh be in example how you could uh be in example how you could uh be in relationship with your own pain. Like relationship with your own pain. Like relationship with your own pain. Like what was that pain? Like what are you what was that pain? Like what are you what was that pain? Like what are you referring to specifically? referring to specifically? referring to specifically? >> Yeah, I mean I >> Yeah, I mean I >> Yeah, I mean I I think for so much of my life I had I think for so much of my life I had I think for so much of my life I had chased the wrong things. chased the wrong things. chased the wrong things. Where in high school and maybe in a a Where in high school and maybe in a a Where in high school and maybe in a a little bit of of college, I was chasing little bit of of college, I was chasing little bit of of college, I was chasing acceptance from other people. acceptance from other people. acceptance from other people. And I was always trying to And I was always trying to And I was always trying to align my actions what what I perceived align my actions what what I perceived align my actions what what I perceived other people would like me to be. other people would like me to be. other people would like me to be. And this constant state of not knowing And this constant state of not knowing And this constant state of not knowing who I am or who I am or who I am or not really knowing how to where my place not really knowing how to where my place not really knowing how to where my place was in the social group just left me was in the social group just left me was in the social group just left me feeling so disconnected from myself. feeling so disconnected from myself. feeling so disconnected from myself. And when I got to college, I kind of And when I got to college, I kind of And when I got to college, I kind of made this conscious choice that like I'm made this conscious choice that like I'm made this conscious choice that like I'm going to do going to do going to do whatever it takes to be accepted by whatever it takes to be accepted by whatever it takes to be accepted by other people and that came in the form other people and that came in the form other people and that came in the form of yes, extreme drinking and and of yes, extreme drinking and and of yes, extreme drinking and and partying and being the best possible partying and being the best possible partying and being the best possible athlete I could be in terms of like athlete I could be in terms of like athlete I could be in terms of like outcomes. outcomes. outcomes. But that also But that also But that also came in form of like, "Hey, we're drunk came in form of like, "Hey, we're drunk came in form of like, "Hey, we're drunk and I'm going to let my friend shoot a and I'm going to let my friend shoot a and I'm going to let my friend shoot a blow dart at me from 10 ft away because blow dart at me from 10 ft away because blow dart at me from 10 ft away because I can endure pain." I can endure pain." I can endure pain." >> Right. And it gets attention. Some like >> Right. And it gets attention. Some like >> Right. And it gets attention. Some like jackass jackass jackass >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. And And And and that just landed me in situations and that just landed me in situations and that just landed me in situations where then I get in trouble with Pub where then I get in trouble with Pub where then I get in trouble with Pub Safe and there were moments where I had Safe and there were moments where I had Safe and there were moments where I had to make a decision to either stop to make a decision to either stop to make a decision to either stop blaming blaming blaming other people or the circumstance or the other people or the circumstance or the other people or the circumstance or the situation and and actually look inward situation and and actually look inward situation and and actually look inward like, "Maybe maybe I have a play in all like, "Maybe maybe I have a play in all like, "Maybe maybe I have a play in all this." this." this." >> Uh-huh. >> Uh-huh. >> Uh-huh. >> That's kind of what spiraled into me >> That's kind of what spiraled into me >> That's kind of what spiraled into me starting to have a journal practice, me starting to have a journal practice, me starting to have a journal practice, me getting into running. All these things getting into running. All these things getting into running. All these things kind of happened at the same time. kind of happened at the same time. kind of happened at the same time. And it felt like I was moving towards a And it felt like I was moving towards a And it felt like I was moving towards a different life, but also like running different life, but also like running different life, but also like running away from this version of myself that away from this version of myself that away from this version of myself that was constantly in chaos, constantly in was constantly in chaos, constantly in was constantly in chaos, constantly in situations that I just woke up the next situations that I just woke up the next situations that I just woke up the next day and was like, "What am I doing with day and was like, "What am I doing with day and was like, "What am I doing with my life? Why am I continuing to end up my life? Why am I continuing to end up my life? Why am I continuing to end up back in the same spot?" back in the same spot?" back in the same spot?" Um Um Um and running was a great way for me to and running was a great way for me to and running was a great way for me to kind of move forward through that. kind of move forward through that. kind of move forward through that. >> To process all of that. and >> To process all of that. and >> To process all of that. and that time alone, I think, is is that time alone, I think, is is that time alone, I think, is is important in trying to figure that important in trying to figure that important in trying to figure that those kinds of things out. I mean, it those kinds of things out. I mean, it those kinds of things out. I mean, it was for me, you know. was for me, you know. was for me, you know. >> So, for like football sense, I'd wake up >> So, for like football sense, I'd wake up >> So, for like football sense, I'd wake up after a night out with shame and regret, after a night out with shame and regret, after a night out with shame and regret, and I didn't know how to deal with those and I didn't know how to deal with those and I didn't know how to deal with those emotions. And so, I'd bottle them up, emotions. And so, I'd bottle them up, emotions. And so, I'd bottle them up, I'd push them down. And football was a I'd push them down. And football was a I'd push them down. And football was a great sport because I could have let great sport because I could have let great sport because I could have let those emotions those emotions those emotions bubble up, and then on Saturday, oh man, bubble up, and then on Saturday, oh man, bubble up, and then on Saturday, oh man, I can I can take that energy out and I can I can take that energy out and I can I can take that energy out and inflict that pain that I'm feeling inflict that pain that I'm feeling inflict that pain that I'm feeling internally on somebody else. And not internally on somebody else. And not internally on somebody else. And not only that, I was rewarded for that only that, I was rewarded for that only that, I was rewarded for that because that was my sole responsibility, because that was my sole responsibility, because that was my sole responsibility, not sole, but like as a defensive not sole, but like as a defensive not sole, but like as a defensive player, it was to player, it was to player, it was to make big plays and tackle and get the make big plays and tackle and get the make big plays and tackle and get the ball back, and you did that by ball back, and you did that by ball back, and you did that by confronting people head-on. And so, that confronting people head-on. And so, that confronting people head-on. And so, that was a cycle that I was in, and when I was a cycle that I was in, and when I was a cycle that I was in, and when I found running, I noticed that that found running, I noticed that that found running, I noticed that that whole or that weight in my chest, I'd whole or that weight in my chest, I'd whole or that weight in my chest, I'd come back from a run, and I wouldn't come back from a run, and I wouldn't come back from a run, and I wouldn't feel that anymore. feel that anymore. feel that anymore. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And that to me was a kind of that first >> And that to me was a kind of that first >> And that to me was a kind of that first instance where I didn't have to continue instance where I didn't have to continue instance where I didn't have to continue in that same cycle, I could find a new in that same cycle, I could find a new in that same cycle, I could find a new one. one. one. And also, there was this cool And also, there was this cool And also, there was this cool line of as I would run, and as I would line of as I would run, and as I would line of as I would run, and as I would move forward physically, I felt like I move forward physically, I felt like I move forward physically, I felt like I was able to process things emotionally was able to process things emotionally was able to process things emotionally in tangent with that thing. in tangent with that thing. in tangent with that thing. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And so, if I was dealing with an >> And so, if I was dealing with an >> And so, if I was dealing with an emotional situation, or I was dealing emotional situation, or I was dealing emotional situation, or I was dealing with identity, or I was dealing with with identity, or I was dealing with with identity, or I was dealing with something that I didn't want to feel, something that I didn't want to feel, something that I didn't want to feel, going for a run helped me process that going for a run helped me process that going for a run helped me process that in real time and feel like I was moving in real time and feel like I was moving in real time and feel like I was moving and walking with that as well. and walking with that as well. and walking with that as well. >> And you were developing a self-awareness >> And you were developing a self-awareness >> And you were developing a self-awareness of that as you were doing it? Like you of that as you were doing it? Like you of that as you were doing it? Like you were aware that this was, you know, kind were aware that this was, you know, kind were aware that this was, you know, kind of like a healing thing for you as you of like a healing thing for you as you of like a healing thing for you as you were were were continuing to explore it? continuing to explore it? continuing to explore it? >> Yeah, and and writing was probably the >> Yeah, and and writing was probably the >> Yeah, and and writing was probably the biggest thing that helped me recognize biggest thing that helped me recognize biggest thing that helped me recognize that because I was able to take time to that because I was able to take time to that because I was able to take time to then think and contemplate and reflect then think and contemplate and reflect then think and contemplate and reflect and actually write down and actually write down and actually write down what was going on. And I I brought some what was going on. And I I brought some what was going on. And I I brought some journals that I was reading on the way journals that I was reading on the way journals that I was reading on the way here. It's like it's so I'm so grateful here. It's like it's so I'm so grateful here. It's like it's so I'm so grateful that I did that because then I have this that I did that because then I have this that I did that because then I have this documented documented documented journey of journey of journey of what was going on internally for me at what was going on internally for me at what was going on internally for me at the time. the time. the time. And to see what I was processing and And to see what I was processing and And to see what I was processing and really how I was communicating with really how I was communicating with really how I was communicating with myself. Like when I first started myself. Like when I first started myself. Like when I first started writing, it was a lot of like writing, it was a lot of like writing, it was a lot of like "Stop doing this, you dumb idiot." Like "Stop doing this, you dumb idiot." Like "Stop doing this, you dumb idiot." Like really being negative to myself and really being negative to myself and really being negative to myself and having a negative voice in my head. And having a negative voice in my head. And having a negative voice in my head. And over time, there was a lot more grace, a over time, there was a lot more grace, a over time, there was a lot more grace, a lot more forgiveness, and a lot more lot more forgiveness, and a lot more lot more forgiveness, and a lot more recognizing that perfection isn't recognizing that perfection isn't recognizing that perfection isn't possible, but you can continue to make possible, but you can continue to make possible, but you can continue to make strides towards the life that I wanted strides towards the life that I wanted strides towards the life that I wanted to live. to live. to live. And I just you know, was able to And I just you know, was able to And I just you know, was able to document that and write that down and document that and write that down and document that and write that down and have that really sit in. have that really sit in. have that really sit in. >> There's a difference between leaning >> There's a difference between leaning >> There's a difference between leaning into running as like this mental health, into running as like this mental health, into running as like this mental health, you know, kind of component to your life you know, kind of component to your life you know, kind of component to your life and making the decision that you're and making the decision that you're and making the decision that you're going to push the envelope and see how going to push the envelope and see how going to push the envelope and see how far you can take it. Like what was it far you can take it. Like what was it far you can take it. Like what was it about running that made you Is it like a about running that made you Is it like a about running that made you Is it like a Goggins James Lawrence thing where Goggins James Lawrence thing where Goggins James Lawrence thing where you're just like I'm going to I'm going you're just like I'm going to I'm going you're just like I'm going to I'm going to walk in their footsteps and see how to walk in their footsteps and see how to walk in their footsteps and see how far I can go with this or far I can go with this or far I can go with this or why not just make it like this thing why not just make it like this thing why not just make it like this thing that you do an hour a day to ground that you do an hour a day to ground that you do an hour a day to ground yourself? >> Because I'm an ambitious person. >> Because I'm an ambitious person. I wouldn't necessarily say that I have I wouldn't necessarily say that I have I wouldn't necessarily say that I have an addictive personality, but I can get an addictive personality, but I can get an addictive personality, but I can get stuck on things. stuck on things. stuck on things. My dad My dad My dad has been sober for has been sober for has been sober for 28, 29 years. 28, 29 years. 28, 29 years. The embodiment of AA. I grew up The embodiment of AA. I grew up The embodiment of AA. I grew up listening to him on phone calls with listening to him on phone calls with listening to him on phone calls with people people people trying to get them help. He is like the trying to get them help. He is like the trying to get them help. He is like the most invested person in AA that I know. most invested person in AA that I know. most invested person in AA that I know. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> And so, hearing that >> And so, hearing that >> And so, hearing that all throughout my life, I sort of had all throughout my life, I sort of had all throughout my life, I sort of had that as an anchor point. that as an anchor point. that as an anchor point. And I genuinely listening to people on And I genuinely listening to people on And I genuinely listening to people on this podcast where this podcast where this podcast where there was a there was a there was a an Olympic athlete you had many, many an Olympic athlete you had many, many an Olympic athlete you had many, many years ago, but they talked about that years ago, but they talked about that years ago, but they talked about that life after winning gold life after winning gold life after winning gold was just lost for them. And was just lost for them. And was just lost for them. And seeing people like Ricky Gates and the seeing people like Ricky Gates and the seeing people like Ricky Gates and the people that were here, there was people that were here, there was people that were here, there was something that they had that I wanted, something that they had that I wanted, something that they had that I wanted, but it wasn't because of the outcome or but it wasn't because of the outcome or but it wasn't because of the outcome or the massive victories that they had. It the massive victories that they had. It the massive victories that they had. It wasn't because of the podium place that wasn't because of the podium place that wasn't because of the podium place that they were standing. It was because this they were standing. It was because this they were standing. It was because this deeper understanding of who they were, deeper understanding of who they were, deeper understanding of who they were, how they were impacting other people, how they were impacting other people, how they were impacting other people, how the choices and decisions that they how the choices and decisions that they how the choices and decisions that they were making was impacting positively the were making was impacting positively the were making was impacting positively the other aspects of their life. And I just other aspects of their life. And I just other aspects of their life. And I just I wanted that. I wanted that because for I wanted that. I wanted that because for I wanted that. I wanted that because for so long, I didn't have that. And I so long, I didn't have that. And I so long, I didn't have that. And I didn't know where to find it. didn't know where to find it. didn't know where to find it. And running was that small little And running was that small little And running was that small little insight of insight of insight of getting a taste of that. getting a taste of that. getting a taste of that. And you know, I And you know, I And you know, I I think maybe it's like I think maybe it's like I think maybe it's like oh, if I get it at this level, then if I oh, if I get it at this level, then if I oh, if I get it at this level, then if I do these big things, do these big things, do these big things, then I'll get it on a grander scale. then I'll get it on a grander scale. then I'll get it on a grander scale. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Which is true, but also it can lead down >> Which is true, but also it can lead down >> Which is true, but also it can lead down a dangerous path as well. a dangerous path as well. a dangerous path as well. >> I've been following your journey for a >> I've been following your journey for a >> I've been following your journey for a little while. It feels like you're little while. It feels like you're little while. It feels like you're having a bit of a moment right now as a having a bit of a moment right now as a having a bit of a moment right now as a result of the the BPN backyard race and result of the the BPN backyard race and result of the the BPN backyard race and then following that up in short shrift then following that up in short shrift then following that up in short shrift with the Midstate Mile race. Both of with the Midstate Mile race. Both of with the Midstate Mile race. Both of those races, at least in my information those races, at least in my information those races, at least in my information bubble, like we're just, you know, like bubble, like we're just, you know, like bubble, like we're just, you know, like my feed was just constantly being my feed was just constantly being my feed was just constantly being refreshed with more and more videos from refreshed with more and more videos from refreshed with more and more videos from those races and those races and those races and those videos seem to travel pretty far those videos seem to travel pretty far those videos seem to travel pretty far and wide and impact people that aren't and wide and impact people that aren't and wide and impact people that aren't like inside the ultra running bubble. Uh like inside the ultra running bubble. Uh like inside the ultra running bubble. Uh and I think it leads to this impression and I think it leads to this impression and I think it leads to this impression that you just arrived on the scene like that you just arrived on the scene like that you just arrived on the scene like you know like you you know like you you know like you Yeah, but you [laughter] Yeah, but you [laughter] Yeah, but you [laughter] you've been doing this for a while and you've been doing this for a while and you've been doing this for a while and even longer than I thought, you know, even longer than I thought, you know, even longer than I thought, you know, like I I I I knew it we're going to talk like I I I I knew it we're going to talk like I I I I knew it we're going to talk about like some stuff that you did in about like some stuff that you did in about like some stuff that you did in 2023, but when I went to like 2023, but when I went to like 2023, but when I went to like UltraSignup and like looked at what UltraSignup and like looked at what UltraSignup and like looked at what you've been >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And as far as I can tell, you didn't >> And as far as I can tell, you didn't >> And as far as I can tell, you didn't really start running until like 2019. really start running until like 2019. really start running until like 2019. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But in 2020, you did in like a 2-week >> But in 2020, you did in like a 2-week >> But in 2020, you did in like a 2-week period, you did two 50Ks and a 50-miler. period, you did two 50Ks and a 50-miler. period, you did two 50Ks and a 50-miler. You got like on January 11th, you ran a You got like on January 11th, you ran a You got like on January 11th, you ran a 50K and got second. 50K and got second. 50K and got second. On January 25th, you ran another 50K and On January 25th, you ran another 50K and On January 25th, you ran another 50K and then on February 1st, you ran a 50-miler then on February 1st, you ran a 50-miler then on February 1st, you ran a 50-miler and got fifth. and got fifth. and got fifth. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And you're like 1 year into your running >> And you're like 1 year into your running >> And you're like 1 year into your running adventure and doing like those three adventure and doing like those three adventure and doing like those three races in literally like I don't know races in literally like I don't know races in literally like I don't know what is that, 16 days or something like what is that, 16 days or something like what is that, 16 days or something like that. that. that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> I'd [snorts] run a marathon >> I'd [snorts] run a marathon >> I'd [snorts] run a marathon >> anonymously, you know what I mean? So >> anonymously, you know what I mean? So >> anonymously, you know what I mean? So it's like you're you're you're coming it's like you're you're you're coming it's like you're you're you're coming out hard. out hard. out hard. You know, years before anybody knows who You know, years before anybody knows who You know, years before anybody knows who you are. you are. you are. >> Yeah, and >> Yeah, and >> Yeah, and you know, if you run a marathon, you can you know, if you run a marathon, you can you know, if you run a marathon, you can do double that, right? You know, if you do double that, right? You know, if you do double that, right? You know, if you run a 50-mile That was my mindset at the run a 50-mile That was my mindset at the run a 50-mile That was my mindset at the time. time. time. A lot of what I did once, you know, 2020 A lot of what I did once, you know, 2020 A lot of what I did once, you know, 2020 hit, a lot of the stuff that I've done hit, a lot of the stuff that I've done hit, a lot of the stuff that I've done that has really transformed how I've that has really transformed how I've that has really transformed how I've run, why I run, and the what the manner run, why I run, and the what the manner run, why I run, and the what the manner in which I'm able to do what I am today, in which I'm able to do what I am today, in which I'm able to do what I am today, happened off UltraSignup. happened off UltraSignup. happened off UltraSignup. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> You know, we did a handful of of charity >> You know, we did a handful of of charity >> You know, we did a handful of of charity runs runs runs for this nonprofit that we started for this nonprofit that we started for this nonprofit that we started called Love Like Lori Legacy. called Love Like Lori Legacy. called Love Like Lori Legacy. A teammate of mine from the football A teammate of mine from the football A teammate of mine from the football team, he's a good friend still today, team, he's a good friend still today, team, he's a good friend still today, Blake, his mom passed away from Blake, his mom passed away from Blake, his mom passed away from pancreatic cancer back in 2020. pancreatic cancer back in 2020. pancreatic cancer back in 2020. And so to raise money, awareness um for And so to raise money, awareness um for And so to raise money, awareness um for pancreatic cancer and pancreatic cancer pancreatic cancer and pancreatic cancer pancreatic cancer and pancreatic cancer research, we ran a series of Love Like research, we ran a series of Love Like research, we ran a series of Love Like Glory runs. Glory runs. Glory runs. You know, we raised over $100,000 over You know, we raised over $100,000 over You know, we raised over $100,000 over the course of three runs, 160 miles, the course of three runs, 160 miles, the course of three runs, 160 miles, then 266 miles, and 500 miles. then 266 miles, and 500 miles. then 266 miles, and 500 miles. And that is where I really learned what And that is where I really learned what And that is where I really learned what running meant to me because running meant to me because running meant to me because it revealed to me that we're all walking it revealed to me that we're all walking it revealed to me that we're all walking around with pain. around with pain. around with pain. And it could be emotional, it could be And it could be emotional, it could be And it could be emotional, it could be spiritual, it could be physical. And spiritual, it could be physical. And spiritual, it could be physical. And out there on the run, my pain was out there on the run, my pain was out there on the run, my pain was physical, but Blake's was an emotional physical, but Blake's was an emotional physical, but Blake's was an emotional and a spiritual. and a spiritual. and a spiritual. And I learned that when we walk together And I learned that when we walk together And I learned that when we walk together in that, when we share in that, when we share in that, when we share how we're feeling from a place of like how we're feeling from a place of like how we're feeling from a place of like truth, truth, truth, of really getting down and not running of really getting down and not running of really getting down and not running from the pain, not trying to bury it, from the pain, not trying to bury it, from the pain, not trying to bury it, but actually trying to get to the center but actually trying to get to the center but actually trying to get to the center of it and do it together, of it and do it together, of it and do it together, that we can see the light that's on the that we can see the light that's on the that we can see the light that's on the other end of the tunnel. Even if we're other end of the tunnel. Even if we're other end of the tunnel. Even if we're not there yet, we can recognize that it not there yet, we can recognize that it not there yet, we can recognize that it exists and we can move toward it. exists and we can move toward it. exists and we can move toward it. >> That's really beautifully put. >> That's really beautifully put. >> That's really beautifully put. Uh yeah, there's something about Uh yeah, there's something about Uh yeah, there's something about dancing at the edge of your dancing at the edge of your dancing at the edge of your capabilities, that you know, and being capabilities, that you know, and being capabilities, that you know, and being in that place where you can't run away in that place where you can't run away in that place where you can't run away from yourself and you have to confront from yourself and you have to confront from yourself and you have to confront your own personal truth and your pain. your own personal truth and your pain. your own personal truth and your pain. And when you're doing it with somebody And when you're doing it with somebody And when you're doing it with somebody else like that, that kind of like shared else like that, that kind of like shared else like that, that kind of like shared vulnerability is the connected tissue vulnerability is the connected tissue vulnerability is the connected tissue between human beings that ails the between human beings that ails the between human beings that ails the spiritual dilemma and the emotional pain spiritual dilemma and the emotional pain spiritual dilemma and the emotional pain that, you know, we all kind of that, you know, we all kind of that, you know, we all kind of compartmentalize and hide from. You compartmentalize and hide from. You compartmentalize and hide from. You know, it's like know, it's like know, it's like there's no escape, you know, when you're there's no escape, you know, when you're there's no escape, you know, when you're when you're in that place, and that's when you're in that place, and that's when you're in that place, and that's where you you discover yourself and you where you you discover yourself and you where you you discover yourself and you develop this develop this develop this thirst for self-understanding. thirst for self-understanding. thirst for self-understanding. >> Yeah, the mask comes off. Yeah. You >> Yeah, the mask comes off. Yeah. You >> Yeah, the mask comes off. Yeah. You can't pretend can't pretend can't pretend to be somebody in that moment. You are to be somebody in that moment. You are to be somebody in that moment. You are who you are. who you are. who you are. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And that's a beautiful thing about >> And that's a beautiful thing about >> And that's a beautiful thing about these, you know, the backyards or the these, you know, the backyards or the these, you know, the backyards or the long, you know, distance charity runs. long, you know, distance charity runs. long, you know, distance charity runs. It's like It's like It's like I got to know who I was I got to know who I was I got to know who I was in those moments. in those moments. in those moments. Now, translating that to the day-to-day Now, translating that to the day-to-day Now, translating that to the day-to-day life is is difficult because there's a a life is is difficult because there's a a life is is difficult because there's a a shelf life or a a short, you know, shelf life or a a short, you know, shelf life or a a short, you know, lifespan to that. lifespan to that. lifespan to that. But But But it's a a recognition of it's a a recognition of it's a a recognition of being able to pull something out of that being able to pull something out of that being able to pull something out of that experience and be like, okay. experience and be like, okay. experience and be like, okay. Um when I face my truest self, I'm not Um when I face my truest self, I'm not Um when I face my truest self, I'm not afraid of that person. Actually, I'm I'm afraid of that person. Actually, I'm I'm afraid of that person. Actually, I'm I'm okay meeting that person and meeting okay meeting that person and meeting okay meeting that person and meeting what that person has to tell me about what that person has to tell me about what that person has to tell me about where I'm currently at. where I'm currently at. where I'm currently at. >> Mhm. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp, This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp, which is why I'm going to cross my legs which is why I'm going to cross my legs which is why I'm going to cross my legs right now and lean back into my right now and lean back into my right now and lean back into my therapist posture. BetterHelp surveyed a therapist posture. BetterHelp surveyed a therapist posture. BetterHelp surveyed a couple thousand Americans this year and couple thousand Americans this year and couple thousand Americans this year and shockingly, 85% said getting [music] shockingly, 85% said getting [music] shockingly, 85% said getting [music] support is a wise thing to do, but 74% support is a wise thing to do, but 74% support is a wise thing to do, but 74% felt [music] like society still quietly felt [music] like society still quietly felt [music] like society still quietly discourages it. That gap is nuts. Like, discourages it. That gap is nuts. Like, discourages it. 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That's better help That's better help That's better help dot [music] com slash rich roll. Element has been with this show for a Element has been with this show for a very long time, but it has been really very long time, but it has been really very long time, but it has been really fun to watch them expand. First into fun to watch them expand. First into fun to watch them expand. First into sparkling cans, and now into something sparkling cans, and now into something sparkling cans, and now into something brand new, lemonade iced tea, which is brand new, lemonade iced tea, which is brand new, lemonade iced tea, which is now the newest addition [music] and my now the newest addition [music] and my now the newest addition [music] and my morning go-to in my home gym. And what morning go-to in my home gym. And what morning go-to in my home gym. 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I want really worth getting it right. I want all my [music] listeners to enjoy a all my [music] listeners to enjoy a all my [music] listeners to enjoy a deep, restful night's sleep with the new deep, restful night's sleep with the new deep, restful night's sleep with the new mattress from Birch. Go to mattress from Birch. Go to mattress from Birch. Go to birchliving.com/richroll birchliving.com/richroll birchliving.com/richroll for 27% for 27% for 27% off sitewide. That's off sitewide. That's off sitewide. That's birchliving.com/richroll birchliving.com/richroll birchliving.com/richroll and get 27% [music] and get 27% [music] and get 27% [music] off sitewide. You've also done an amazing job in You've also done an amazing job in sharing all of that. Like, you're very sharing all of that. Like, you're very sharing all of that. Like, you're very transparent in how you communicate transparent in how you communicate transparent in how you communicate publicly around your relationship with publicly around your relationship with publicly around your relationship with your running and these races, etc. Like, your running and these races, etc. Like, your running and these races, etc. Like, you're a constant presence on Instagram you're a constant presence on Instagram you're a constant presence on Instagram and your YouTube channel, where and your YouTube channel, where and your YouTube channel, where you're not afraid to just you're not afraid to just you're not afraid to just talk about like, this is how it is, this talk about like, this is how it is, this talk about like, this is how it is, this is how it feels today, this is what I is how it feels today, this is what I is how it feels today, this is what I hope to do, here's where I failed, hope to do, here's where I failed, hope to do, here's where I failed, here's what I learned about myself, here's what I learned about myself, here's what I learned about myself, here's something about mindset that here's something about mindset that here's something about mindset that might be helpful to you. might be helpful to you. might be helpful to you. There's a service aspect, maybe that There's a service aspect, maybe that There's a service aspect, maybe that comes from your dad in AA or whatever, comes from your dad in AA or whatever, comes from your dad in AA or whatever, but you're always giving back. but you're always giving back. but you're always giving back. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. I appreciate you recognizing that. I uh I appreciate you recognizing that. I uh I appreciate you recognizing that. I uh I don't have anything to hide. I don't have anything to hide. I don't have anything to hide. You know, in terms of You know, in terms of You know, in terms of what running has done for me or what I'm what running has done for me or what I'm what running has done for me or what I'm trying to get out of it. Like going into trying to get out of it. Like going into trying to get out of it. Like going into BPN, a lot of people were BPN, a lot of people were BPN, a lot of people were like asking, do you think you'll win? Or like asking, do you think you'll win? Or like asking, do you think you'll win? Or asking like outcome related questions. asking like outcome related questions. asking like outcome related questions. And I'm like, I'm just going to figure And I'm like, I'm just going to figure And I'm like, I'm just going to figure out how far I can actually go when I'm out how far I can actually go when I'm out how far I can actually go when I'm up against the best competitors in the up against the best competitors in the up against the best competitors in the sport. sport. sport. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And I listened to an interview and Kim, >> And I listened to an interview and Kim, >> And I listened to an interview and Kim, he was one of the four guys remaining. he was one of the four guys remaining. he was one of the four guys remaining. He was the co-winner last year. And him He was the co-winner last year. And him He was the co-winner last year. And him and I are good friends now. And he's and I are good friends now. And he's and I are good friends now. And he's sort of recanted and taken back what he sort of recanted and taken back what he sort of recanted and taken back what he said, but he was in an interview talking said, but he was in an interview talking said, but he was in an interview talking about how he was willing to die. He said about how he was willing to die. He said about how he was willing to die. He said he was willing to die to win that race. he was willing to die to win that race. he was willing to die to win that race. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> This was before the race. >> This was before the race. >> This was before the race. And I just like And I just like And I just like >> to that before >> to that before >> to that before >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> before you did it. You're like, okay, >> before you did it. You're like, okay, >> before you did it. You're like, okay, well, you know, when push comes to shove well, you know, when push comes to shove well, you know, when push comes to shove and you're in it with him, if he's and you're in it with him, if he's and you're in it with him, if he's willing to die, like what am I going to willing to die, like what am I going to willing to die, like what am I going to do? do? do? >> Well, >> Well, >> Well, I kind of reject that. I kind of reject that. I kind of reject that. >> Uh-huh. >> Uh-huh. >> Uh-huh. >> No one's willing to die. >> No one's willing to die. >> No one's willing to die. When push comes to shove, When push comes to shove, When push comes to shove, I hope you're not willing to die for I hope you're not willing to die for I hope you're not willing to die for this game. It is a game at the end of this game. It is a game at the end of this game. It is a game at the end of the day. It is a It's a race and it's the day. It is a It's a race and it's the day. It is a It's a race and it's fun and we take it serious, but fun and we take it serious, but fun and we take it serious, but I do not find all of my value through I do not find all of my value through I do not find all of my value through running in a way that I'd be willing to running in a way that I'd be willing to running in a way that I'd be willing to literally die for an outcome literally die for an outcome literally die for an outcome that will not serve me going forward. that will not serve me going forward. that will not serve me going forward. And I think a lot of that has to do with And I think a lot of that has to do with And I think a lot of that has to do with support with my wife at home, the support with my wife at home, the support with my wife at home, the friends that I have. One of the most friends that I have. One of the most friends that I have. One of the most like people ask me now what tip I have like people ask me now what tip I have like people ask me now what tip I have for them running their backyard ultra. for them running their backyard ultra. for them running their backyard ultra. It really is find yourself a Lucy. And It really is find yourself a Lucy. And It really is find yourself a Lucy. And Lucy is my wife. Lucy is my wife. Lucy is my wife. And it is because when we're driving And it is because when we're driving And it is because when we're driving back from BPN and my social media is back from BPN and my social media is back from BPN and my social media is going crazy, you know, I'm got I got going crazy, you know, I'm got I got going crazy, you know, I'm got I got reached out by you, you know, and um I'm reached out by you, you know, and um I'm reached out by you, you know, and um I'm getting hit up by all these people and getting hit up by all these people and getting hit up by all these people and my agent's like, "Oh, you got all these my agent's like, "Oh, you got all these my agent's like, "Oh, you got all these brand opportunities now." brand opportunities now." brand opportunities now." She just says in that chaos, in that She just says in that chaos, in that She just says in that chaos, in that storm, storm, storm, "Mark, "Mark, "Mark, people will love you now for what you people will love you now for what you people will love you now for what you just did. just did. just did. And now you have a spotlight on you And now you have a spotlight on you And now you have a spotlight on you where they will love you more for what where they will love you more for what where they will love you more for what you will continue to do in the future. you will continue to do in the future. you will continue to do in the future. Just know that myself Just know that myself Just know that myself and your friends and the people that and your friends and the people that and your friends and the people that know you for you know you for you know you for you will always love you for that. There's will always love you for that. There's will always love you for that. There's nothing that you can do that will earn nothing that you can do that will earn nothing that you can do that will earn more of our love. more of our love. more of our love. >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> And we will we want you to succeed. We >> And we will we want you to succeed. We >> And we will we want you to succeed. We want you to keep doing these things, but want you to keep doing these things, but want you to keep doing these things, but you don't have to do those things in you don't have to do those things in you don't have to do those things in order for us to love you. order for us to love you. order for us to love you. That is what I have in my corner. That That is what I have in my corner. That That is what I have in my corner. That is what I'm grounded by and it's a is what I'm grounded by and it's a is what I'm grounded by and it's a constant reminder of that and from her constant reminder of that and from her constant reminder of that and from her that allows me to not get wrapped up in that allows me to not get wrapped up in that allows me to not get wrapped up in the messaging of like, "I'm willing to the messaging of like, "I'm willing to the messaging of like, "I'm willing to die. I'm willing to go deep. I'm willing die. I'm willing to go deep. I'm willing die. I'm willing to go deep. I'm willing to search within myself." to search within myself." to search within myself." But But But I think the I think the I think the the intention is different. the intention is different. the intention is different. The intention is is not rooted in The intention is is not rooted in The intention is is not rooted in something that something that something that is going to lead me down a road where is going to lead me down a road where is going to lead me down a road where I'm I'm searching for identity again. I'm I'm searching for identity again. I'm I'm searching for identity again. >> It's not about >> It's not about >> It's not about earning love and acceptance. It's about earning love and acceptance. It's about earning love and acceptance. It's about a deeper connection with yourself. And a deeper connection with yourself. And a deeper connection with yourself. And that notion of like, "I'm willing to that notion of like, "I'm willing to that notion of like, "I'm willing to die." is die." is die." is is kind of is kind of is kind of reading between the lines, it's about reading between the lines, it's about reading between the lines, it's about winning. Like, that's what I have to do winning. Like, that's what I have to do winning. Like, that's what I have to do in order to beat somebody else. But, in order to beat somebody else. But, in order to beat somebody else. But, what you're saying is this is an what you're saying is this is an what you're saying is this is an internal journey and I'm trying to internal journey and I'm trying to internal journey and I'm trying to unlock my best performance, but it unlock my best performance, but it unlock my best performance, but it really doesn't have anything to do with really doesn't have anything to do with really doesn't have anything to do with anyone else. And, you know, win, lose, anyone else. And, you know, win, lose, anyone else. And, you know, win, lose, or fail, or whatever happens, or fail, or whatever happens, or fail, or whatever happens, I know who I am and I know that, you I know who I am and I know that, you I know who I am and I know that, you know, the people that I surround myself know, the people that I surround myself know, the people that I surround myself with are going to love me nonetheless. with are going to love me nonetheless. with are going to love me nonetheless. And it's Yes, maybe I'll get, you know, And it's Yes, maybe I'll get, you know, And it's Yes, maybe I'll get, you know, some external validation and attention, some external validation and attention, some external validation and attention, but you know, that's that's that's a but you know, that's that's that's a but you know, that's that's that's a transient kind of like thing and I can't transient kind of like thing and I can't transient kind of like thing and I can't control it and it's actually control it and it's actually control it and it's actually functionally meaningless. functionally meaningless. functionally meaningless. >> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Which is a very mature and healthy >> Which is a very mature and healthy >> Which is a very mature and healthy relationship to have with those sorts of relationship to have with those sorts of relationship to have with those sorts of things. things. things. >> Well, it's it's taken a lot to get >> Well, it's it's taken a lot to get >> Well, it's it's taken a lot to get there. I mean, college sports was there. I mean, college sports was there. I mean, college sports was focused on national championship or the focused on national championship or the focused on national championship or the season to failure. season to failure. season to failure. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> You know, and so I was reflecting on >> You know, and so I was reflecting on >> You know, and so I was reflecting on this this this just recently of how just recently of how just recently of how having that intention having that intention having that intention even when I look back, I miss out on all even when I look back, I miss out on all even when I look back, I miss out on all of the ways I could have been a better of the ways I could have been a better of the ways I could have been a better leader or a leader or a leader or a someone who's just more invested into someone who's just more invested into someone who's just more invested into the experience because if we didn't win, the experience because if we didn't win, the experience because if we didn't win, therefore we weren't valuable, therefore therefore we weren't valuable, therefore therefore we weren't valuable, therefore I wasn't valuable as a person. I wasn't valuable as a person. I wasn't valuable as a person. And And And that therefore all the intention of the that therefore all the intention of the that therefore all the intention of the work and the people around me were work and the people around me were work and the people around me were focused on these external materialistic focused on these external materialistic focused on these external materialistic values that may not have led to the most values that may not have led to the most values that may not have led to the most successful outcome. successful outcome. successful outcome. As as like As as like As as like when I look back, it's like, how did you when I look back, it's like, how did you when I look back, it's like, how did you build people up? How did you take build people up? How did you take build people up? How did you take moments, maybe in the lunchroom or the moments, maybe in the lunchroom or the moments, maybe in the lunchroom or the cafeteria to learn more about a person cafeteria to learn more about a person cafeteria to learn more about a person to build a stronger relationship because to build a stronger relationship because to build a stronger relationship because that relationship will actually that relationship will actually that relationship will actually translate to the field in a way that you translate to the field in a way that you translate to the field in a way that you won't be able to won't be able to won't be able to write down in the stat book. write down in the stat book. write down in the stat book. And that is where I try and focus more And that is where I try and focus more And that is where I try and focus more of my attention on now is building some of my attention on now is building some of my attention on now is building some of those more of those more of those more emotional or spiritual things because emotional or spiritual things because emotional or spiritual things because that actually translates when it gets that actually translates when it gets that actually translates when it gets hard. hard. hard. >> And you were 19 years old. >> And you were 19 years old. >> And you were 19 years old. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> It's like, come on, you know, like >> It's like, come on, you know, like >> It's like, come on, you know, like you you be so give yourself a little bit you you be so give yourself a little bit you you be so give yourself a little bit of grace, you know. of grace, you know. of grace, you know. I want to read this thing that's on your I want to read this thing that's on your I want to read this thing that's on your website under under your bio. Instead of website under under your bio. Instead of website under under your bio. Instead of having a traditional bio where it's having a traditional bio where it's having a traditional bio where it's like, Mark Doutel is this person and like, Mark Doutel is this person and like, Mark Doutel is this person and he's done these races. he's done these races. he's done these races. It says, It says, It says, "At 3:00 a.m. on day three, Mark Doutel "At 3:00 a.m. on day three, Mark Doutel "At 3:00 a.m. on day three, Mark Doutel was hallucinating. His legs had stopped was hallucinating. His legs had stopped was hallucinating. His legs had stopped feeling like legs hours ago. His body feeling like legs hours ago. His body feeling like legs hours ago. His body was negotiating with his mind to quit. was negotiating with his mind to quit. was negotiating with his mind to quit. He watched elite athletes sit down one He watched elite athletes sit down one He watched elite athletes sit down one by one and not get back up. by one and not get back up. by one and not get back up. He kept going. Not because he felt good, He kept going. Not because he felt good, He kept going. Not because he felt good, because he needed to find out what he because he needed to find out what he because he needed to find out what he was actually capable of." And then it was actually capable of." And then it was actually capable of." And then it goes on to talk about, like, it's sort goes on to talk about, like, it's sort goes on to talk about, like, it's sort of a pitch for you as a speaker, but of a pitch for you as a speaker, but of a pitch for you as a speaker, but essentially, essentially, essentially, what you're saying is, what you're saying is, what you're saying is, uh, this really isn't about, like, uh, this really isn't about, like, uh, this really isn't about, like, needing to run 300 miles. Uh, it's it's needing to run 300 miles. Uh, it's it's needing to run 300 miles. Uh, it's it's about your capacity to manage yourself about your capacity to manage yourself about your capacity to manage yourself appropriately appropriately appropriately in extreme situations, which is a in extreme situations, which is a in extreme situations, which is a capacity not reserved for the elite or capacity not reserved for the elite or capacity not reserved for the elite or some kind of outlier, but is something some kind of outlier, but is something some kind of outlier, but is something that we all have, that we all have, that we all have, uh, the ability to do. And this is kind uh, the ability to do. And this is kind uh, the ability to do. And this is kind of what you talk about. Like, you're a of what you talk about. Like, you're a of what you talk about. Like, you're a big mindset guy. You're like, you're a big mindset guy. You're like, you're a big mindset guy. You're like, you're a personal development guy. Like, running personal development guy. Like, running personal development guy. Like, running is really an expression of the work that is really an expression of the work that is really an expression of the work that you have done on mindset and how you you have done on mindset and how you you have done on mindset and how you think about human potential. So, how do think about human potential. So, how do think about human potential. So, how do you articulate what that thesis is? you articulate what that thesis is? you articulate what that thesis is? >> No matter the circumstance that we're >> No matter the circumstance that we're >> No matter the circumstance that we're in, whether it's in, whether it's in, whether it's a physical endeavor like running or it a physical endeavor like running or it a physical endeavor like running or it is a situation at home with a is a situation at home with a is a situation at home with a relationship, we all have a choice to relationship, we all have a choice to relationship, we all have a choice to make about the story that we want to make about the story that we want to make about the story that we want to craft. craft. craft. I find this so fascinating during these I find this so fascinating during these I find this so fascinating during these backyard ultras backyard ultras backyard ultras is competing narratives in my mind of is competing narratives in my mind of is competing narratives in my mind of what I'm actually capable of. what I'm actually capable of. what I'm actually capable of. And on one hand, one story is saying, And on one hand, one story is saying, And on one hand, one story is saying, "You're not good enough. You're not "You're not good enough. You're not "You're not good enough. You're not worthy enough. You worthy enough. You worthy enough. You aren't able to finish this how you aren't able to finish this how you aren't able to finish this how you thought you could. You didn't do enough thought you could. You didn't do enough thought you could. You didn't do enough work. work. work. Every you know, you talk more than you Every you know, you talk more than you Every you know, you talk more than you actually are. You're not this person you actually are. You're not this person you actually are. You're not this person you think you are. think you are. think you are. And then there's another narrative where And then there's another narrative where And then there's another narrative where it is every step that I take, I create it is every step that I take, I create it is every step that I take, I create the story that I want to write. Every the story that I want to write. Every the story that I want to write. Every step that I take is evidence that who I step that I take is evidence that who I step that I take is evidence that who I say I am is who I actually am. The way that I feel right now is not the The way that I feel right now is not the full truth. full truth. full truth. And at certain moments during the race, And at certain moments during the race, And at certain moments during the race, I can get hung up on one or the other. I can get hung up on one or the other. I can get hung up on one or the other. And yeah, I want to continue to try and And yeah, I want to continue to try and And yeah, I want to continue to try and create that narrative. create that narrative. create that narrative. But sometimes it's just submitting to But sometimes it's just submitting to But sometimes it's just submitting to the fact that the fact that the fact that you don't always have a choice in that. you don't always have a choice in that. you don't always have a choice in that. It's It's It's I mean, you have a choice It's It's It's I mean, you have a choice It's It's It's I mean, you have a choice to create that and create the evidence, to create that and create the evidence, to create that and create the evidence, but that doesn't mean it's going to lead but that doesn't mean it's going to lead but that doesn't mean it's going to lead you to the place that you want it to. you to the place that you want it to. you to the place that you want it to. Taking a step forward Taking a step forward Taking a step forward um um um allows you to create that that allows you to create that that allows you to create that that narrative. Mhm. narrative. Mhm. narrative. Mhm. >> We're all living out a story that we're >> We're all living out a story that we're >> We're all living out a story that we're telling ourselves about who we are. And telling ourselves about who we are. And telling ourselves about who we are. And I think most people I think most people I think most people can't uh can't uh can't uh distance themselves. They They They distance themselves. They They They distance themselves. They They They overly self-identify with that story, overly self-identify with that story, overly self-identify with that story, whether it's positive or negative. whether it's positive or negative. whether it's positive or negative. In every case, it's not factually In every case, it's not factually In every case, it's not factually correct, you know, it's a fictional correct, you know, it's a fictional correct, you know, it's a fictional narrative that was installed narrative that was installed narrative that was installed before our brains were fully formed before our brains were fully formed before our brains were fully formed based upon our upbringing and our based upon our upbringing and our based upon our upbringing and our experiences, et cetera. And it kind of experiences, et cetera. And it kind of experiences, et cetera. And it kind of gets locked in. And it's only when you gets locked in. And it's only when you gets locked in. And it's only when you take actions contrary to that narrative take actions contrary to that narrative take actions contrary to that narrative that you can begin to form a new one. that you can begin to form a new one. that you can begin to form a new one. And you And you And you have to uncouple your identity from that have to uncouple your identity from that have to uncouple your identity from that story as being one in the same. But it's story as being one in the same. But it's story as being one in the same. But it's a constant process because it's so a constant process because it's so a constant process because it's so entrenched. You know, if it's negative, entrenched. You know, if it's negative, entrenched. You know, if it's negative, it's like, "Oh, it's never going to work it's like, "Oh, it's never going to work it's like, "Oh, it's never going to work out." And you know, this is who I am. out." And you know, this is who I am. out." And you know, this is who I am. And because of this, like, this is how And because of this, like, this is how And because of this, like, this is how things always work out for me. And then things always work out for me. And then things always work out for me. And then you take an action that contradicts you take an action that contradicts you take an action that contradicts that, and you have to assemble those that, and you have to assemble those that, and you have to assemble those little pieces one by one like Legos in little pieces one by one like Legos in little pieces one by one like Legos in order to craft that new narrative. But order to craft that new narrative. But order to craft that new narrative. But that old one that old one that old one it remains. It's like an ongoing battle. it remains. It's like an ongoing battle. it remains. It's like an ongoing battle. >> Yeah, and I mean you say it >> Yeah, and I mean you say it >> Yeah, and I mean you say it frequently, mood follows action. frequently, mood follows action. frequently, mood follows action. And And And it's being willing to take those actions it's being willing to take those actions it's being willing to take those actions despite how you feel or despite the despite how you feel or despite the despite how you feel or despite the circumstance. And circumstance. And circumstance. And know that by taking those steps forward know that by taking those steps forward know that by taking those steps forward it it will lead to a better place. it it will lead to a better place. it it will lead to a better place. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. Just for people who are listening or Just for people who are listening or Just for people who are listening or watching and and may not be familiar watching and and may not be familiar watching and and may not be familiar with like what this BPN race is and what with like what this BPN race is and what with like what this BPN race is and what Midstate is. Midstate is. Midstate is. BPN, which is Nick Bare's supplement BPN, which is Nick Bare's supplement BPN, which is Nick Bare's supplement company, they sponsor you, right? company, they sponsor you, right? company, they sponsor you, right? >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Was this the second year that he put on >> Was this the second year that he put on >> Was this the second year that he put on a backyard ultra on his like ranch in a backyard ultra on his like ranch in a backyard ultra on his like ranch in Texas? And for those that don't know, a Texas? And for those that don't know, a Texas? And for those that don't know, a backyard ultra is when you run a 4.2 backyard ultra is when you run a 4.2 backyard ultra is when you run a 4.2 mile loop on the hour every hour, and mile loop on the hour every hour, and mile loop on the hour every hour, and the competitors continue to do that the competitors continue to do that the competitors continue to do that until they can't make the time cut and until they can't make the time cut and until they can't make the time cut and they drop out until there's just two they drop out until there's just two they drop out until there's just two people left and you keep going until people left and you keep going until people left and you keep going until somebody can't make the 4.2 mile loop in somebody can't make the 4.2 mile loop in somebody can't make the 4.2 mile loop in the allotted time. These races have just the allotted time. These races have just the allotted time. These races have just skyrocketed in popularity. Uh I think skyrocketed in popularity. Uh I think skyrocketed in popularity. Uh I think beginning in the pandemic cuz those it beginning in the pandemic cuz those it beginning in the pandemic cuz those it was something that people could like do was something that people could like do was something that people could like do at home and share on social media. at home and share on social media. at home and share on social media. And it's become highly, highly And it's become highly, highly And it's become highly, highly competitive. And I just know for myself competitive. And I just know for myself competitive. And I just know for myself going into going into going into watching watching watching uh this BPN race this year, I was like, uh this BPN race this year, I was like, uh this BPN race this year, I was like, all right, well, Harvey Lewis is doing all right, well, Harvey Lewis is doing all right, well, Harvey Lewis is doing this race. Like this race. Like this race. Like >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Like this is the this is the hybrid >> Like this is the this is the hybrid >> Like this is the this is the hybrid athlete, you know, like athlete, you know, like athlete, you know, like bro situation here. These guys are going bro situation here. These guys are going bro situation here. These guys are going to have to get absolutely shellacked by to have to get absolutely shellacked by to have to get absolutely shellacked by Harvey, you know, when they see like a Harvey, you know, when they see like a Harvey, you know, when they see like a guy who really knows how to do this. guy who really knows how to do this. guy who really knows how to do this. Uh what's the record that Harvey set Uh what's the record that Harvey set Uh what's the record that Harvey set going into that race? It's since been going into that race? It's since been going into that race? It's since been broken, but it's in the 400-mile range, broken, but it's in the 400-mile range, broken, but it's in the 400-mile range, isn't it? isn't it? isn't it? >> It's like 118. >> It's like 118. >> It's like 118. >> 118 loops. Yeah, so we're we're talking >> 118 loops. Yeah, so we're we're talking >> 118 loops. Yeah, so we're we're talking closing in on like 500 miles, you know, closing in on like 500 miles, you know, closing in on like 500 miles, you know, like just absolutely like mind-blowing. like just absolutely like mind-blowing. like just absolutely like mind-blowing. But, in the case of this race, But, in the case of this race, But, in the case of this race, Harvey ends up dropping out like Harvey ends up dropping out like Harvey ends up dropping out like before it came down to two people. Like, before it came down to two people. Like, before it came down to two people. Like, at what point did he at what point did he at what point did he pull out? pull out? pull out? >> The race went for 73 hours and >> The race went for 73 hours and >> The race went for 73 hours and I think it was maybe around 60 hours I think it was maybe around 60 hours I think it was maybe around 60 hours that him and Kim, the that him and Kim, the that him and Kim, the we were the final four, but those two we were the final four, but those two we were the final four, but those two guys dropped at the same loop. guys dropped at the same loop. guys dropped at the same loop. >> Uh-huh. >> Uh-huh. >> Uh-huh. You end up winning that race 306 You end up winning that race 306 You end up winning that race 306 miles in 73 hours. miles in 73 hours. miles in 73 hours. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Is that right? Stunning victory. And >> Is that right? Stunning victory. And >> Is that right? Stunning victory. And then, then, then, shortly thereafter, you go do this race shortly thereafter, you go do this race shortly thereafter, you go do this race called Midstate Mile, which is a called Midstate Mile, which is a called Midstate Mile, which is a backyard ultra, but you're only running backyard ultra, but you're only running backyard ultra, but you're only running a 1-mile loop, correct? a 1-mile loop, correct? a 1-mile loop, correct? >> 1-mile loop every 20 minutes with 340 ft >> 1-mile loop every 20 minutes with 340 ft >> 1-mile loop every 20 minutes with 340 ft of elevation per loop. of elevation per loop. of elevation per loop. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> That was >> That was >> That was >> And it's you and Harvey once again. >> And it's you and Harvey once again. >> And it's you and Harvey once again. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And what happens in this race? >> And what happens in this race? >> And what happens in this race? >> Harvey uh >> Harvey uh >> Harvey uh >> How many First of all, how long after >> How many First of all, how long after >> How many First of all, how long after the BPN race was this race? the BPN race was this race? the BPN race was this race? >> So, uh BPN was April 10th. This was June >> So, uh BPN was April 10th. This was June >> So, uh BPN was April 10th. This was June 20th. So, 20th. So, 20th. So, >> Okay, so you had a You had a decent >> Okay, so you had a You had a decent >> Okay, so you had a You had a decent amount. Okay. amount. Okay. amount. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And And And Harvey invited me to come to this race. Harvey invited me to come to this race. Harvey invited me to come to this race. And he And he And he which Harvey, we'll see what your which Harvey, we'll see what your which Harvey, we'll see what your intentions were for inviting me to this intentions were for inviting me to this intentions were for inviting me to this race. race. race. >> Uh yeah, with a with a twinkle in his >> Uh yeah, with a with a twinkle in his >> Uh yeah, with a with a twinkle in his eye and a smile like, "I want to pay eye and a smile like, "I want to pay eye and a smile like, "I want to pay back on this guy." I'm going to I'm back on this guy." I'm going to I'm back on this guy." I'm going to I'm going to get the best of this I'm going going to get the best of this I'm going going to get the best of this I'm going to get back. to get back. to get back. >> But, he he pitched it as, "Hey, Bigs has >> But, he he pitched it as, "Hey, Bigs has >> But, he he pitched it as, "Hey, Bigs has a lot of elevation. a lot of elevation. a lot of elevation. Um him and I will be teammates this year Um him and I will be teammates this year Um him and I will be teammates this year for Team USA." for Team USA." for Team USA." >> And that's in October, right? >> And that's in October, right? >> And that's in October, right? >> It's in October. >> It's in October. >> It's in October. >> That's like the >> That's like the >> That's like the like premier backyard ultra race. like premier backyard ultra race. like premier backyard ultra race. >> So, we'll be on a team of 15 for that, >> So, we'll be on a team of 15 for that, >> So, we'll be on a team of 15 for that, competing against like 70 other competing against like 70 other competing against like 70 other countries. countries. countries. But, he wanted to But, he wanted to But, he wanted to prepare along with me for that by doing prepare along with me for that by doing prepare along with me for that by doing this race. He'd always wanted to do this this race. He'd always wanted to do this this race. He'd always wanted to do this race, race, race, and he thought it would be great and he thought it would be great and he thought it would be great training and just fun to compete against training and just fun to compete against training and just fun to compete against each other. And so, we did it and each other. And so, we did it and each other. And so, we did it and it was brutal. it was brutal. it was brutal. I mean, average grade is 30%, gets up to I mean, average grade is 30%, gets up to I mean, average grade is 30%, gets up to 60% incline. 60% incline. 60% incline. >> 60%? >> 60%? >> 60%? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And it's two big climbs. And it's two big climbs. And it's two big climbs. >> Yeah, you if you >> Yeah, you if you >> Yeah, you if you if you lean back, you were stumbling if you lean back, you were stumbling if you lean back, you were stumbling back. back. back. Um Franklin, Tennessee. Um Franklin, Tennessee. Um Franklin, Tennessee. >> I didn't realize it had that kind of uh >> I didn't realize it had that kind of uh >> I didn't realize it had that kind of uh that kind of elevation gain. that kind of elevation gain. that kind of elevation gain. But, Harvey won. But, Harvey won. But, Harvey won. >> Harvey Yeah, so Harvey wins this race. >> Harvey Yeah, so Harvey wins this race. >> Harvey Yeah, so Harvey wins this race. Uh there's a video of him like sprinting Uh there's a video of him like sprinting Uh there's a video of him like sprinting [laughter] at the end. You're like, [laughter] at the end. You're like, [laughter] at the end. You're like, "What is going on with this guy?" "What is going on with this guy?" "What is going on with this guy?" It seems on paper, not knowing about It seems on paper, not knowing about It seems on paper, not knowing about that elevation aspect to it, that that elevation aspect to it, that that elevation aspect to it, that running a 1-mile running a 1-mile running a 1-mile >> Although, would be easier. >> Although, would be easier. >> Although, would be easier. >> Setting aside like the grade aspect of >> Setting aside like the grade aspect of >> Setting aside like the grade aspect of it, it, it, what is the difference what is the difference what is the difference doing a 4.2-mile loop versus a 1-mile doing a 4.2-mile loop versus a 1-mile doing a 4.2-mile loop versus a 1-mile loop? loop? loop? >> Rhythm and timing. Like, my greatest >> Rhythm and timing. Like, my greatest >> Rhythm and timing. Like, my greatest asset is having my wife Lucy there. She asset is having my wife Lucy there. She asset is having my wife Lucy there. She cooks all the food that I eat. And cooks all the food that I eat. And cooks all the food that I eat. And because we come back to a tent, there's because we come back to a tent, there's because we come back to a tent, there's a level of when I enter that tent, I a level of when I enter that tent, I a level of when I enter that tent, I sort of get to break down the walls and sort of get to break down the walls and sort of get to break down the walls and let her know genuinely how I'm feeling, let her know genuinely how I'm feeling, let her know genuinely how I'm feeling, and we can talk about that and it just and we can talk about that and it just and we can talk about that and it just be a place for us to come together. be a place for us to come together. be a place for us to come together. And in this, you don't have a tent to go And in this, you don't have a tent to go And in this, you don't have a tent to go back to. You are stuck in this corral back to. You are stuck in this corral back to. You are stuck in this corral where you have where you have where you have 3 by 3 space where you get a chair and a 3 by 3 space where you get a chair and a 3 by 3 space where you get a chair and a cooler, and you're next to all 114 other cooler, and you're next to all 114 other cooler, and you're next to all 114 other runners. runners. runners. >> Like a triathlon transition. Exactly. >> Like a triathlon transition. Exactly. >> Like a triathlon transition. Exactly. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And instead of having 8 minutes that >> And instead of having 8 minutes that >> And instead of having 8 minutes that feels like forever, you have maybe 3 feels like forever, you have maybe 3 feels like forever, you have maybe 3 minutes. minutes. minutes. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And because of >> And because of >> And because of the elevation, because I the elevation, because I the elevation, because I you know, I tend to like to take my time you know, I tend to like to take my time you know, I tend to like to take my time and and not overburn on on courses, and and not overburn on on courses, and and not overburn on on courses, I was coming in with like 30 seconds to I was coming in with like 30 seconds to I was coming in with like 30 seconds to a minute. a minute. a minute. >> Mhm. [clears throat] >> Mhm. [clears throat] >> Mhm. [clears throat] >> And it just wasn't enough time. >> And it just wasn't enough time. >> And it just wasn't enough time. And you can't sleep because of the And you can't sleep because of the And you can't sleep because of the limited time. They do a every 12 hours a limited time. They do a every 12 hours a limited time. They do a every 12 hours a 20-minute intermission, so you can sleep 20-minute intermission, so you can sleep 20-minute intermission, so you can sleep during that, but it's just so out of during that, but it's just so out of during that, but it's just so out of rhythm rhythm rhythm where you know, you sleep for 10 minutes where you know, you sleep for 10 minutes where you know, you sleep for 10 minutes and you eat for 5, but by the time and you eat for 5, but by the time and you eat for 5, but by the time you're getting back up, you're stiff you're getting back up, you're stiff you're getting back up, you're stiff because you've been down and you're out because you've been down and you're out because you've been down and you're out of that rhythm. of that rhythm. of that rhythm. And it was just the whole And it was just the whole And it was just the whole just your rhythm is off. That it just just your rhythm is off. That it just just your rhythm is off. That it just the format didn't create this very easy the format didn't create this very easy the format didn't create this very easy system where you could shut off your system where you could shut off your system where you could shut off your brain and you could take time. Like brain and you could take time. Like brain and you could take time. Like during the BPN race, when it was down to during the BPN race, when it was down to during the BPN race, when it was down to us four, us four, us four, I laid down belly first on the course. I laid down belly first on the course. I laid down belly first on the course. And I was able to have this And I was able to have this And I was able to have this 2-to-3-minute reflective moment where I 2-to-3-minute reflective moment where I 2-to-3-minute reflective moment where I sat and I said, you know, I want to sat and I said, you know, I want to sat and I said, you know, I want to quit. This is getting hard, but will the quit. This is getting hard, but will the quit. This is getting hard, but will the version of me 24 hours from now be able version of me 24 hours from now be able version of me 24 hours from now be able to to to honestly say that I gave everything I honestly say that I gave everything I honestly say that I gave everything I had in this race? had in this race? had in this race? And I could have that moment and it not And I could have that moment and it not And I could have that moment and it not cost me on time. And I could get back up cost me on time. And I could get back up cost me on time. And I could get back up and then keep going. If you do something and then keep going. If you do something and then keep going. If you do something like that at Midstate, or if you take a like that at Midstate, or if you take a like that at Midstate, or if you take a pee that's longer than, you know, a pee that's longer than, you know, a pee that's longer than, you know, a minute and a half, minute and a half, minute and a half, >> Mhm. You could time out. >> Mhm. You could time out. >> Mhm. You could time out. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And [clears throat] just to catch back >> And [clears throat] just to catch back >> And [clears throat] just to catch back up, you're hammering down these hills up, you're hammering down these hills up, you're hammering down these hills that have rocks and roots everywhere. that have rocks and roots everywhere. that have rocks and roots everywhere. And you know, one bad step or it's late And you know, one bad step or it's late And you know, one bad step or it's late at night and you're tired, you trip and at night and you're tired, you trip and at night and you're tired, you trip and you fall, you smash your face. you fall, you smash your face. you fall, you smash your face. And so I just think that And so I just think that And so I just think that that quickness, that up being being able that quickness, that up being being able that quickness, that up being being able to sleep to sleep to sleep >> It's like an interval workout, like a >> It's like an interval workout, like a >> It's like an interval workout, like a very, very long interval workout. very, very long interval workout. very, very long interval workout. >> feel your heart >> feel your heart >> feel your heart >> Also, you being a big dude, like you're >> Also, you being a big dude, like you're >> Also, you being a big dude, like you're at a disadvantage with that kind of at a disadvantage with that kind of at a disadvantage with that kind of elevation gain. It's going to It's going elevation gain. It's going to It's going elevation gain. It's going to It's going to beat you up more than it's going to to beat you up more than it's going to to beat you up more than it's going to beat up a guy like Harvey. beat up a guy like Harvey. beat up a guy like Harvey. >> I think my quads handled it better than >> I think my quads handled it better than >> I think my quads handled it better than Harvey's quads. Harvey's quads. Harvey's quads. >> Yeah, but you get you have a lot more >> Yeah, but you get you have a lot more >> Yeah, but you get you have a lot more muscle that can get fatigued, true, a muscle that can get fatigued, true, a muscle that can get fatigued, true, a lot more lactate build up. lot more lactate build up. lot more lactate build up. >> True. True. >> The most important resource we have is >> The most important resource we have is time, and we need to really understand time, and we need to really understand time, and we need to really understand how important that is, because most of how important that is, because most of how important that is, because most of us are wasting too much of it. What do us are wasting too much of it. What do us are wasting too much of it. What do you think, Andrew? you think, Andrew? you think, Andrew? >> Well, shoot, man, we just checked our >> Well, shoot, man, we just checked our >> Well, shoot, man, we just checked our screen time, and apparently I'm spending screen time, and apparently I'm spending screen time, and apparently I'm spending 6 and 1/2 hours a day staring at what 6 and 1/2 hours a day staring at what 6 and 1/2 hours a day staring at what Hasan Minhaj calls my rectangle of Hasan Minhaj calls my rectangle of Hasan Minhaj calls my rectangle of sadness. sadness. sadness. >> I'm embarrassed to say mine is even >> I'm embarrassed to say mine is even >> I'm embarrassed to say mine is even worse. This is a real problem. We need worse. This is a real problem. We need worse. This is a real problem. We need to begin to really value our time, and to begin to really value our time, and to begin to really value our time, and this is what the mission is behind Noble this is what the mission is behind Noble this is what the mission is behind Noble Mobile. Am I correct? Mobile. Am I correct? Mobile. Am I correct? >> Yes, Noble Mobile's the first wireless >> Yes, Noble Mobile's the first wireless >> Yes, Noble Mobile's the first wireless carrier that will actually pay you to carrier that will actually pay you to carrier that will actually pay you to use your phone less. There are use your phone less. There are use your phone less. There are billion-dollar companies that want to billion-dollar companies that want to billion-dollar companies that want to maximize engagement [music] to maximize maximize engagement [music] to maximize maximize engagement [music] to maximize their own revenue and profit, and who's their own revenue and profit, and who's their own revenue and profit, and who's benefiting from that? Them, not us. benefiting from that? Them, not us. benefiting from that? Them, not us. >> We can point our fingers at them, >> We can point our fingers at them, >> We can point our fingers at them, [music] we can blame them, or we can do [music] we can blame them, or we can do [music] we can blame them, or we can do something about it. something about it. something about it. >> Yes, Noble Mobile. Check us out at >> Yes, Noble Mobile. Check us out at >> Yes, Noble Mobile. Check us out at noblemobile.com. You can switch in 5 noblemobile.com. You can switch in 5 noblemobile.com. You can switch in 5 minutes, and it's only $10 for your minutes, and it's only $10 for your minutes, and it's only $10 for your first month if you use the code first month if you use the code first month if you use the code >> Rich Roll. >> Rich Roll. >> Rich Roll. >> That's right. Take back your time, your >> That's right. Take back your time, your >> That's right. Take back your time, your attention, and get that money. attention, and get that money. attention, and get that money. >> And they'll pay you for using your phone >> And they'll pay you for using your phone >> And they'll pay you for using your phone less. less. less. >> Yes, pay you to do the thing you know >> Yes, pay you to do the thing you know >> Yes, pay you to do the thing you know you want to do anyway. you want to do anyway. you want to do anyway. >> Yes, sir. >> Yes, sir. >> Yes, sir. Andrew Yang. This episode is brought to you by This episode is brought to you by Go Go Go Brewing. 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Is it your resilience because you're kind of born resilience because you're kind of born resilience because you're kind of born and raised in the Midwest and have and raised in the Midwest and have and raised in the Midwest and have tolerated terrible weather conditions or tolerated terrible weather conditions or tolerated terrible weather conditions or yeah? yeah? yeah? >> I do genuinely believe that the strength >> I do genuinely believe that the strength >> I do genuinely believe that the strength that I have that I have that I have is not a running per se, it's not is not a running per se, it's not is not a running per se, it's not necessarily a strength per se. It is necessarily a strength per se. It is necessarily a strength per se. It is that I'm committed to this mission of that I'm committed to this mission of that I'm committed to this mission of finding out what I'm capable of and my finding out what I'm capable of and my finding out what I'm capable of and my heart and my spirit are way more leading heart and my spirit are way more leading heart and my spirit are way more leading the charge than anything else. the charge than anything else. the charge than anything else. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Um because during Midstate Mile >> Um because during Midstate Mile >> Um because during Midstate Mile there came a moment we ended at 10:00 there came a moment we ended at 10:00 there came a moment we ended at 10:00 a.m. Monday morning, but by midnight I a.m. Monday morning, but by midnight I a.m. Monday morning, but by midnight I knew I wasn't going to beat Harvey. Like knew I wasn't going to beat Harvey. Like knew I wasn't going to beat Harvey. Like I I just knew it. He was looking way too I I just knew it. He was looking way too I I just knew it. He was looking way too strong. He had gone through one low strong. He had gone through one low strong. He had gone through one low point and then popped back out of it and point and then popped back out of it and point and then popped back out of it and was looking great, and I was just banged was looking great, and I was just banged was looking great, and I was just banged up. up. up. And And And I I I just made a decision there. I was like, just made a decision there. I was like, just made a decision there. I was like, I don't care if I don't win this thing. I don't care if I don't win this thing. I don't care if I don't win this thing. I need to know. I need to know. I need to know. I need to know that I gave everything I I need to know that I gave everything I I need to know that I gave everything I had out here. had out here. had out here. And for 10 hours I was able to do that, And for 10 hours I was able to do that, And for 10 hours I was able to do that, knowing that the outcome was entirely knowing that the outcome was entirely knowing that the outcome was entirely removed, knowing that removed, knowing that removed, knowing that you know, the outcome that I wanted to you know, the outcome that I wanted to you know, the outcome that I wanted to happen there wasn't going to happen. happen there wasn't going to happen. happen there wasn't going to happen. And And And all throughout that day my mind was all throughout that day my mind was all throughout that day my mind was looking for an out. My mind was looking looking for an out. My mind was looking looking for an out. My mind was looking for an opportunity to stop. I even was for an opportunity to stop. I even was for an opportunity to stop. I even was like hoping and praying that I would like hoping and praying that I would like hoping and praying that I would just eat it going down the hill at night just eat it going down the hill at night just eat it going down the hill at night so that I could have some other excuse so that I could have some other excuse so that I could have some other excuse than quitting. than quitting. than quitting. But it is and I think get this from my But it is and I think get this from my But it is and I think get this from my mom, this relentless will to not give up mom, this relentless will to not give up mom, this relentless will to not give up on something. Like my mom is the type of on something. Like my mom is the type of on something. Like my mom is the type of person where if I lose this wristband in person where if I lose this wristband in person where if I lose this wristband in this room, she will fly out here and she this room, she will fly out here and she this room, she will fly out here and she will not leave until she finds it. And will not leave until she finds it. And will not leave until she finds it. And she will find it. What is that about? she will find it. What is that about? she will find it. What is that about? >> I don't [laughter] know. >> I don't [laughter] know. >> I don't [laughter] know. >> This is just This is baked into your >> This is just This is baked into your >> This is just This is baked into your genetic code. genetic code. genetic code. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> What is the practice of that? Like how >> What is the practice of that? Like how >> What is the practice of that? Like how do you Do you have Like you talked about do you Do you have Like you talked about do you Do you have Like you talked about journaling, but are there things that journaling, but are there things that journaling, but are there things that you do to get yourself primed and in you do to get yourself primed and in you do to get yourself primed and in that mindset so that you can weather that mindset so that you can weather that mindset so that you can weather those those those low moments, those difficult trying low moments, those difficult trying low moments, those difficult trying moments when every everything inside of moments when every everything inside of moments when every everything inside of you is telling you to quit? you is telling you to quit? you is telling you to quit? >> I mean, my faith is a big is a big piece >> I mean, my faith is a big is a big piece >> I mean, my faith is a big is a big piece of that. of that. of that. >> Has that always been consistent in your >> Has that always been consistent in your >> Has that always been consistent in your life or is this something that Yeah, life or is this something that Yeah, life or is this something that Yeah, talk about that. talk about that. talk about that. >> No. >> No. >> No. You know, grew up in the Catholic You know, grew up in the Catholic You know, grew up in the Catholic household, went to a Jesuit university, household, went to a Jesuit university, household, went to a Jesuit university, went to Catholic university, but never went to Catholic university, but never went to Catholic university, but never was like was like was like so sick of hearing it from my dad. so sick of hearing it from my dad. so sick of hearing it from my dad. So sick of hearing it. So sick of hearing it. So sick of hearing it. After I After I After I went through this phase of chasing went through this phase of chasing went through this phase of chasing happiness, I replaced that with a happiness, I replaced that with a happiness, I replaced that with a chasing achievement because I thought chasing achievement because I thought chasing achievement because I thought that if I do these big events, these big that if I do these big events, these big that if I do these big events, these big races, these big challenges, people that races, these big challenges, people that races, these big challenges, people that I respect and admire in the sport, then I respect and admire in the sport, then I respect and admire in the sport, then they'll respect me, and then I will have they'll respect me, and then I will have they'll respect me, and then I will have achieved something meaningful to my achieved something meaningful to my achieved something meaningful to my life. life. life. >> You'll feel whole. You'll feel whole. >> You'll feel whole. You'll feel whole. >> You'll feel whole. You'll feel whole. >> Yeah. And >> Yeah. And >> Yeah. And you know, I did this year-long calendar you know, I did this year-long calendar you know, I did this year-long calendar club where part of the intention going club where part of the intention going club where part of the intention going into that was to see what I was capable into that was to see what I was capable into that was to see what I was capable of. But there was also this intention of. But there was also this intention of. But there was also this intention that if I did it, that if I did it, that if I did it, I would gain social media attention, I I would gain social media attention, I I would gain social media attention, I would gain sponsorships, I would gain would gain sponsorships, I would gain would gain sponsorships, I would gain admiration from other people. And 7 8 admiration from other people. And 7 8 admiration from other people. And 7 8 months into the challenge, none of it months into the challenge, none of it months into the challenge, none of it happened. happened. happened. And I was listening to Sally McRae talk And I was listening to Sally McRae talk And I was listening to Sally McRae talk about on a podcast where she finds about on a podcast where she finds about on a podcast where she finds strength in those moments in her strength in those moments in her strength in those moments in her 200-mile races 200-mile races 200-mile races where she was reminded that she's made where she was reminded that she's made where she was reminded that she's made in the image of God. in the image of God. in the image of God. And something about that just stirred my And something about that just stirred my And something about that just stirred my spirit in a way of like, I've tried spirit in a way of like, I've tried spirit in a way of like, I've tried everything to feel whole. And I have everything to feel whole. And I have everything to feel whole. And I have never found it. never found it. never found it. And maybe this is a place where I And maybe this is a place where I And maybe this is a place where I haven't yet searched because I have haven't yet searched because I have haven't yet searched because I have been taught it by my parents for so long been taught it by my parents for so long been taught it by my parents for so long where I just I don't want anything to do where I just I don't want anything to do where I just I don't want anything to do with it, or I just never actually took with it, or I just never actually took with it, or I just never actually took the time to take a genuine step of the time to take a genuine step of the time to take a genuine step of faith, not from a a religious faith, not from a a religious faith, not from a a religious background, but from like a genuine step background, but from like a genuine step background, but from like a genuine step of maybe this is something that I should of maybe this is something that I should of maybe this is something that I should seek out. seek out. seek out. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And from then, >> And from then, >> And from then, I I I was able to actually separate myself was able to actually separate myself was able to actually separate myself from running as an identity, running as from running as an identity, running as from running as an identity, running as a way of making money, or a way of making money, or a way of making money, or you know, growing an audience or you know, growing an audience or you know, growing an audience or creating an impact and recognize that if creating an impact and recognize that if creating an impact and recognize that if it gets taken away from me tomorrow or it gets taken away from me tomorrow or it gets taken away from me tomorrow or today, God forbid, today, God forbid, today, God forbid, it will be hard. It will be very hard it will be hard. It will be very hard it will be hard. It will be very hard and there will be a and there will be a and there will be a a time of mourning for that, but I will a time of mourning for that, but I will a time of mourning for that, but I will be okay. be okay. be okay. Because the strength that I have comes Because the strength that I have comes Because the strength that I have comes from a foundation of faith, but it also from a foundation of faith, but it also from a foundation of faith, but it also comes from having a strong will and a comes from having a strong will and a comes from having a strong will and a strong spirit. And I look at a guy like strong spirit. And I look at a guy like strong spirit. And I look at a guy like Mike Egan, who was at the BPN race, who Mike Egan, who was at the BPN race, who Mike Egan, who was at the BPN race, who was in a wheelchair. was in a wheelchair. was in a wheelchair. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> Who I mean that is talk about it is like >> Who I mean that is talk about it is like >> Who I mean that is talk about it is like an incredible story. an incredible story. an incredible story. >> That is the embodiment and I've texted >> That is the embodiment and I've texted >> That is the embodiment and I've texted him about this. I'm like, I I see more him about this. I'm like, I I see more him about this. I'm like, I I see more in common with you than I do a lot of in common with you than I do a lot of in common with you than I do a lot of other runners because other runners because other runners because when you're watching a man drag his when you're watching a man drag his when you're watching a man drag his wheelchair doing whatever it takes even wheelchair doing whatever it takes even wheelchair doing whatever it takes even when when when the loop time had passed, he even if he the loop time had passed, he even if he the loop time had passed, he even if he finished that loop, he couldn't continue finished that loop, he couldn't continue finished that loop, he couldn't continue on, but he was he he had a will and a on, but he was he he had a will and a on, but he was he he had a will and a desire to just see what was the limit. desire to just see what was the limit. desire to just see what was the limit. No no race win, no amount of money, no No no race win, no amount of money, no No no race win, no amount of money, no amount of people following your story amount of people following your story amount of people following your story will give you will give you will give you what that can give you, the peace that what that can give you, the peace that what that can give you, the peace that that can give you. And you can only find that can give you. And you can only find that can give you. And you can only find that by you doing the work to get there. that by you doing the work to get there. that by you doing the work to get there. Nobody can give that to you. Nobody can give that to you. Nobody can give that to you. And so I find a lot of strength in And so I find a lot of strength in And so I find a lot of strength in recognizing that recognizing that recognizing that there's something deeper about what I am there's something deeper about what I am there's something deeper about what I am doing that doing that doing that these external material things can't these external material things can't these external material things can't provide to me. provide to me. provide to me. >> How old are you? >> How old are you? >> How old are you? >> 29. >> 29. >> 29. >> Yeah, like you dude, you're so you when >> Yeah, like you dude, you're so you when >> Yeah, like you dude, you're so you when I was 29, I was 29, I was 29, it's an absolute disaster. it's an absolute disaster. it's an absolute disaster. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Like you're just at the beginning of you Like you're just at the beginning of you Like you're just at the beginning of you know, I can see the amazing life ahead know, I can see the amazing life ahead know, I can see the amazing life ahead of you to have that grounded, you know, of you to have that grounded, you know, of you to have that grounded, you know, sense of sense of sense of meaning in your life where everything is meaning in your life where everything is meaning in your life where everything is in its proper place. Like you're just in its proper place. Like you're just in its proper place. Like you're just set up for set up for set up for the right kind of life. You know, it's the right kind of life. You know, it's the right kind of life. You know, it's really beautiful. really beautiful. really beautiful. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> The guy in the wheelchair, oh my god. >> The guy in the wheelchair, oh my god. >> The guy in the wheelchair, oh my god. >> Mike. >> Mike. >> Mike. >> Like he's it's like it's covered in mud. >> Like he's it's like it's covered in mud. >> Like he's it's like it's covered in mud. You can't even turn these wheels and he You can't even turn these wheels and he You can't even turn these wheels and he was out there like doing like doing a was out there like doing like doing a was out there like doing like doing a backyard ultra in the mud in a backyard ultra in the mud in a backyard ultra in the mud in a wheelchair. wheelchair. wheelchair. >> Isn't it? >> Isn't it? >> Isn't it? >> Like I've never seen anything like that. >> Like I've never seen anything like that. >> Like I've never seen anything like that. >> When we rolled up, I >> When we rolled up, I >> When we rolled up, I this is not a this is not a this is not a great thing to admit, but I just thought great thing to admit, but I just thought great thing to admit, but I just thought he was out there because it would be a he was out there because it would be a he was out there because it would be a nice little publicity thing. nice little publicity thing. nice little publicity thing. Like there's no way somebody can do this Like there's no way somebody can do this Like there's no way somebody can do this course course course for more than a few loops. for more than a few loops. for more than a few loops. And I didn't know much about him going And I didn't know much about him going And I didn't know much about him going into the race. into the race. into the race. But then I saw and I was like, okay, But then I saw and I was like, okay, But then I saw and I was like, okay, this makes a lot of sense. this makes a lot of sense. this makes a lot of sense. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. Meaning like what is it about that guy? Meaning like what is it about that guy? Meaning like what is it about that guy? Like who I don't know anything about Like who I don't know anything about Like who I don't know anything about him. him. him. >> He is a he's a veteran. >> He is a he's a veteran. >> He is a he's a veteran. Um Um Um he the his legs it he was he stepped on he the his legs it he was he stepped on he the his legs it he was he stepped on a a a landmine? landmine? landmine? >> IED. >> IED. >> IED. >> You know, he went through >> You know, he went through >> You know, he went through tons of surgeries and um he got to this tons of surgeries and um he got to this tons of surgeries and um he got to this point. Um he shared his story on a point. Um he shared his story on a point. Um he shared his story on a podcast recently and we listened to it podcast recently and we listened to it podcast recently and we listened to it on our drive to midstate, but on our drive to midstate, but on our drive to midstate, but what I see in that man is somebody who what I see in that man is somebody who what I see in that man is somebody who has a relentless will to not let his has a relentless will to not let his has a relentless will to not let his circumstance define him. And that to me circumstance define him. And that to me circumstance define him. And that to me is is is those are the people that inspire me as those are the people that inspire me as those are the people that inspire me as people who don't allow people who don't allow people who don't allow whatever they're going through to define whatever they're going through to define whatever they're going through to define who they are. who they are. who they are. And it goes back to what we talked And it goes back to what we talked And it goes back to what we talked earlier. It's like he is the one that's earlier. It's like he is the one that's earlier. It's like he is the one that's creating the story that he wants to live creating the story that he wants to live creating the story that he wants to live by. by. by. And that to me is powerful. That to me And that to me is powerful. That to me And that to me is powerful. That to me is empowerment. That speaks to is empowerment. That speaks to is empowerment. That speaks to to people more about how they can change to people more about how they can change to people more about how they can change their circumstance and take ownership in their circumstance and take ownership in their circumstance and take ownership in their life than winning a backyard their life than winning a backyard their life than winning a backyard ultra. Maybe the the ways in which I've ultra. Maybe the the ways in which I've ultra. Maybe the the ways in which I've gotten there or the ways in which Harvey gotten there or the ways in which Harvey gotten there or the ways in which Harvey got there speak to it, but it's not the got there speak to it, but it's not the got there speak to it, but it's not the win. It is what you're willing to do win. It is what you're willing to do win. It is what you're willing to do despite the win. despite the win. despite the win. >> When I was up at Trail Can, uh >> When I was up at Trail Can, uh >> When I was up at Trail Can, uh uh, the other week, uh, the other week, uh, the other week, there were all these panels going on and there were all these panels going on and there were all these panels going on and one of the like a recurring topic of one of the like a recurring topic of one of the like a recurring topic of conversation is conversation is conversation is the future of ultra running, the change the future of ultra running, the change the future of ultra running, the change the changes that we're seeing. We're the changes that we're seeing. We're the changes that we're seeing. We're seeing money coming in. We're seeing so seeing money coming in. We're seeing so seeing money coming in. We're seeing so many, you know, new people coming into many, you know, new people coming into many, you know, new people coming into this sport in various, you know, this sport in various, you know, this sport in various, you know, capacities and there's a lot of like capacities and there's a lot of like capacities and there's a lot of like concern and hand-wringing amongst the concern and hand-wringing amongst the concern and hand-wringing amongst the OGs of what is this going to do to this OGs of what is this going to do to this OGs of what is this going to do to this culture, the subculture that we care culture, the subculture that we care culture, the subculture that we care about so much. Uh, and, you know, how about so much. Uh, and, you know, how about so much. Uh, and, you know, how are we going to make sure that we are we going to make sure that we are we going to make sure that we protect what's great about this sport protect what's great about this sport protect what's great about this sport when all of these other influences are when all of these other influences are when all of these other influences are now, you know, coming in. now, you know, coming in. now, you know, coming in. And I would imagine that that like what And I would imagine that that like what And I would imagine that that like what Nick Bare is doing with BPN is is you Nick Bare is doing with BPN is is you Nick Bare is doing with BPN is is you know, for that old guard is know, for that old guard is know, for that old guard is somewhat like somewhat like somewhat like a ruffling of the feathers because he a ruffling of the feathers because he a ruffling of the feathers because he doesn't doesn't doesn't he's not the the picture of the ultra he's not the the picture of the ultra he's not the the picture of the ultra He's not like the guy with the mustache He's not like the guy with the mustache He's not like the guy with the mustache living in a van down by the river. You living in a van down by the river. You living in a van down by the river. You know what I mean? He's doing something know what I mean? He's doing something know what I mean? He's doing something very different. And what I find very different. And what I find very different. And what I find interesting about this is that the new interesting about this is that the new interesting about this is that the new people coming in are in charge of people coming in are in charge of people coming in are in charge of determining what this culture is and determining what this culture is and determining what this culture is and there can be many cultures that can there can be many cultures that can there can be many cultures that can coexist. And this is a guy who, coexist. And this is a guy who, coexist. And this is a guy who, uh, is introducing uh, is introducing uh, is introducing this world to a whole different kind of this world to a whole different kind of this world to a whole different kind of community or cohort of people and community or cohort of people and community or cohort of people and athletes. And because athletes. And because athletes. And because he's so good at the content and he's so good at the content and he's so good at the content and filmmaking piece, he's able to create filmmaking piece, he's able to create filmmaking piece, he's able to create stories that resonate with people and stories that resonate with people and stories that resonate with people and are magnetizing people who otherwise are magnetizing people who otherwise are magnetizing people who otherwise might not ever even consider might not ever even consider might not ever even consider this sport to start signing up for these this sport to start signing up for these this sport to start signing up for these things, which I think is, you know, things, which I think is, you know, things, which I think is, you know, that's a net positive overall, uh, but that's a net positive overall, uh, but that's a net positive overall, uh, but it is interesting the cultural shifts it is interesting the cultural shifts it is interesting the cultural shifts that we're seeing happening right now. that we're seeing happening right now. that we're seeing happening right now. >> Yeah, and I think that's that's just >> Yeah, and I think that's that's just >> Yeah, and I think that's that's just going to happen. going to happen. going to happen. Um, Um, Um, I look at a guy who is really doing this I look at a guy who is really doing this I look at a guy who is really doing this well and it's Harvey. well and it's Harvey. well and it's Harvey. Where he's a Where he's a Where he's a older guy in the sport. He's still older guy in the sport. He's still older guy in the sport. He's still competing at a high level. But he has competing at a high level. But he has competing at a high level. But he has adapted tremendously well of putting adapted tremendously well of putting adapted tremendously well of putting himself himself himself >> He can pop into any community and he'll >> He can pop into any community and he'll >> He can pop into any community and he'll proudly wear his vegan stuff, you know. proudly wear his vegan stuff, you know. proudly wear his vegan stuff, you know. It's like he just dropped into the, you It's like he just dropped into the, you It's like he just dropped into the, you know, go one more red hat wearing like know, go one more red hat wearing like know, go one more red hat wearing like world of like bros and hybrid athletes world of like bros and hybrid athletes world of like bros and hybrid athletes and he's just his skinny happy self with and he's just his skinny happy self with and he's just his skinny happy self with his, you know, vegan with his vegan his, you know, vegan with his vegan his, you know, vegan with his vegan attire on, you know, and everybody loves attire on, you know, and everybody loves attire on, you know, and everybody loves him because he's just oozing positivity him because he's just oozing positivity him because he's just oozing positivity and love for everybody that he meets. and love for everybody that he meets. and love for everybody that he meets. >> Yeah, and >> Yeah, and >> Yeah, and I think with the I think with the I think with the the new age, I mean, I'm a product of the new age, I mean, I'm a product of the new age, I mean, I'm a product of people like Harvey, people like people like Harvey, people like people like Harvey, people like yourself, people like Ricky Gates and yourself, people like Ricky Gates and yourself, people like Ricky Gates and Robbie Bellinger. Like I'm a product of Robbie Bellinger. Like I'm a product of Robbie Bellinger. Like I'm a product of listening to the those people. So, I listening to the those people. So, I listening to the those people. So, I stand on the shoulders of giants type of stand on the shoulders of giants type of stand on the shoulders of giants type of thing. But, I'm also a part of this new thing. But, I'm also a part of this new thing. But, I'm also a part of this new age of coming from untraditional sport age of coming from untraditional sport age of coming from untraditional sport background and using social media in a background and using social media in a background and using social media in a way that maybe some other people didn't way that maybe some other people didn't way that maybe some other people didn't have access to or have access to or have access to or I'm very much fit, you know, in in a lot I'm very much fit, you know, in in a lot I'm very much fit, you know, in in a lot of ways the BPN type of person. of ways the BPN type of person. of ways the BPN type of person. >> player >> player >> player football player. football player. football player. >> What that does though is the amount of >> What that does though is the amount of >> What that does though is the amount of people that then signed up for their people that then signed up for their people that then signed up for their first Backyard because of what they first Backyard because of what they first Backyard because of what they watched during BPN. watched during BPN. watched during BPN. I'm getting like hundreds of DMs about I'm getting like hundreds of DMs about I'm getting like hundreds of DMs about that. And I think what that does is it that. And I think what that does is it that. And I think what that does is it allows people to get more invested in allows people to get more invested in allows people to get more invested in the sport where then they can look at a the sport where then they can look at a the sport where then they can look at a guy like Harvey where they might not get guy like Harvey where they might not get guy like Harvey where they might not get pushed his content because they're pushed his content because they're pushed his content because they're looking for maybe gym bro content. But, looking for maybe gym bro content. But, looking for maybe gym bro content. But, now they're starting to understand now they're starting to understand now they're starting to understand somebody like Harvey or like Phil Gore somebody like Harvey or like Phil Gore somebody like Harvey or like Phil Gore or some of these really OG people in the or some of these really OG people in the or some of these really OG people in the sport and that helps them as well. sport and that helps them as well. sport and that helps them as well. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, I think it all bubbles up to help >> So, I think it all bubbles up to help >> So, I think it all bubbles up to help everybody. everybody. everybody. But, it's I think somebody like Harvey But, it's I think somebody like Harvey But, it's I think somebody like Harvey who's embracing that change and putting who's embracing that change and putting who's embracing that change and putting himself in the center of that and himself in the center of that and himself in the center of that and Dude, he's bringing us along on this Dude, he's bringing us along on this Dude, he's bringing us along on this journey of his as well. journey of his as well. journey of his as well. >> Sure. >> Sure. >> Sure. >> He is really the face of the sport. And >> He is really the face of the sport. And >> He is really the face of the sport. And he's grown the sport and he loves it and he's grown the sport and he loves it and he's grown the sport and he loves it and protects it and there's a sense where protects it and there's a sense where protects it and there's a sense where when somebody has that much investment when somebody has that much investment when somebody has that much investment in it, I want to honor them and respect in it, I want to honor them and respect in it, I want to honor them and respect that. that. that. And he's willing to bring us along on And he's willing to bring us along on And he's willing to bring us along on that journey. that journey. that journey. >> What you did in 2024, I think it might >> What you did in 2024, I think it might >> What you did in 2024, I think it might be the most interesting thing that be the most interesting thing that be the most interesting thing that you've done. you've done. you've done. >> What's that? >> What's that? >> What's that? >> Which is >> Which is >> Which is uh this uh this uh this 475 475 475 miles worth of running to arrive in miles worth of running to arrive in miles worth of running to arrive in Ontario for the Beer Mile World Classic. Ontario for the Beer Mile World Classic. Ontario for the Beer Mile World Classic. So, basically So, basically So, basically you at some point you get enamored with you at some point you get enamored with you at some point you get enamored with this beer mile thing. this beer mile thing. this beer mile thing. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> And you're like, this is my jam. >> And you're like, this is my jam. >> And you're like, this is my jam. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Uh but, instead of just showing up to >> Uh but, instead of just showing up to >> Uh but, instead of just showing up to the Beer Mile World Classic to the Beer Mile World Classic to the Beer Mile World Classic to participate in the amateur category or participate in the amateur category or participate in the amateur category or whatever it was, you decide that you're whatever it was, you decide that you're whatever it was, you decide that you're going to run there. So, you run going to run there. So, you run going to run there. So, you run from Chicago to Milwaukee, then you from Chicago to Milwaukee, then you from Chicago to Milwaukee, then you catch a ferry across Lake Michigan. catch a ferry across Lake Michigan. catch a ferry across Lake Michigan. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And then you start basically running >> And then you start basically running >> And then you start basically running from college to college across Michigan, from college to college across Michigan, from college to college across Michigan, like running beer miles with like like running beer miles with like like running beer miles with like lacrosse athletes or something like lacrosse athletes or something like lacrosse athletes or something like that. To eventually 475 miles later that. To eventually 475 miles later that. To eventually 475 miles later arrive arrive arrive in Windsor, Ontario for this Beer Mile in Windsor, Ontario for this Beer Mile in Windsor, Ontario for this Beer Mile Championship. And then Championship. And then Championship. And then >> what happens? >> what happens? >> what happens? >> Uh >> Uh >> Uh just competition at that point. just competition at that point. just competition at that point. >> I mean, it >> I mean, it >> I mean, it >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> See, the what you do, you end up getting >> See, the what you do, you end up getting >> See, the what you do, you end up getting second, right? In this race in the second, right? In this race in the second, right? In this race in the amateur category. You run like 5:51 or amateur category. You run like 5:51 or amateur category. You run like 5:51 or something like that. something like that. something like that. >> enough. >> enough. >> enough. >> do it in like this like pink and >> do it in like this like pink and >> do it in like this like pink and [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] purple like button-down purple like button-down purple like button-down >> shirt. Yeah. >> shirt. Yeah. >> shirt. Yeah. >> Um >> Um >> Um So, this is pre-backyard ultra, but So, this is pre-backyard ultra, but So, this is pre-backyard ultra, but you're you must be thinking at the time you're you must be thinking at the time you're you must be thinking at the time like I'm the I'm going to be the beer like I'm the I'm going to be the beer like I'm the I'm going to be the beer mile guy. mile guy. mile guy. >> I still am the beer mile guy. That is >> I still am the beer mile guy. That is >> I still am the beer mile guy. That is the thing most people know me for is the thing most people know me for is the thing most people know me for is you're the beer mile guy, right? you're the beer mile guy, right? you're the beer mile guy, right? >> still know you as that guy. >> still know you as that guy. >> still know you as that guy. >> Yeah, a little bit more now cuz of the >> Yeah, a little bit more now cuz of the >> Yeah, a little bit more now cuz of the BPN thing, but man, it is the beer mile BPN thing, but man, it is the beer mile BPN thing, but man, it is the beer mile happened because uh during calendar happened because uh during calendar happened because uh during calendar club, a way to sort of celebrate the end club, a way to sort of celebrate the end club, a way to sort of celebrate the end of the month and the beginning of a new of the month and the beginning of a new of the month and the beginning of a new month was to invite people to do a beer month was to invite people to do a beer month was to invite people to do a beer mile. mile. mile. And I got pretty good at them. And I And I got pretty good at them. And I And I got pretty good at them. And I liked the competition aspect where it's liked the competition aspect where it's liked the competition aspect where it's like this really quick thing. like this really quick thing. like this really quick thing. And then I you know, that content was And then I you know, that content was And then I you know, that content was doing well online, so I tried to lean doing well online, so I tried to lean doing well online, so I tried to lean into it and see what I could make of it, into it and see what I could make of it, into it and see what I could make of it, which turned into beat my beer mile which turned into beat my beer mile which turned into beat my beer mile where I'd race college athletes. where I'd race college athletes. where I'd race college athletes. >> Yeah, you have a bunch of video Yeah, >> Yeah, you have a bunch of video Yeah, >> Yeah, you have a bunch of video Yeah, like you show up like you get the like you show up like you get the like you show up like you get the football team and they run a mile and football team and they run a mile and football team and they run a mile and the challenge is they have to go faster the challenge is they have to go faster the challenge is they have to go faster than your beer mile. than your beer mile. than your beer mile. >> Yes. And if I pass them, they >> Yes. And if I pass them, they >> Yes. And if I pass them, they >> can't. [laughter] >> can't. [laughter] >> can't. [laughter] >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Here's what BPN should be doing. They >> Here's what BPN should be doing. They >> Here's what BPN should be doing. They should combine these two things and make should combine these two things and make should combine these two things and make the backyard ultra they should add the the backyard ultra they should add the the backyard ultra they should add the beer into it. So after every lap you beer into it. So after every lap you beer into it. So after every lap you have to drink a beer and that would have to drink a beer and that would have to drink a beer and that would completely change the whole thing. Like completely change the whole thing. Like completely change the whole thing. Like how long could you go? how long could you go? how long could you go? How many beers? [laughter] How many beers? [laughter] How many beers? [laughter] >> I would not last very >> I would not last very >> I would not last very >> Harvey's not I don't know, man. I think >> Harvey's not I don't know, man. I think >> Harvey's not I don't know, man. I think maybe you're made for it, you know? maybe you're made for it, you know? maybe you're made for it, you know? >> Well, I >> Well, I >> Well, I >> I think you would definitely put Harvey >> I think you would definitely put Harvey >> I think you would definitely put Harvey into the into the grave on that one. into the into the grave on that one. into the into the grave on that one. >> got Harvey on that one, but Harvey, >> got Harvey on that one, but Harvey, >> got Harvey on that one, but Harvey, let's do that one. let's do that one. let's do that one. Yeah. I mean, part of it to sparked as I Yeah. I mean, part of it to sparked as I Yeah. I mean, part of it to sparked as I coached one year football after college coached one year football after college coached one year football after college because I thought I wanted to be a because I thought I wanted to be a because I thought I wanted to be a football coach because I didn't want to football coach because I didn't want to football coach because I didn't want to work a typical 9-5. work a typical 9-5. work a typical 9-5. And I learned very quickly through that And I learned very quickly through that And I learned very quickly through that experience that there's a difference experience that there's a difference experience that there's a difference between loving football and loving to between loving football and loving to between loving football and loving to play football and I did not love the play football and I did not love the play football and I did not love the sport. And I wanted to be a coach in sport. And I wanted to be a coach in sport. And I wanted to be a coach in large part because I large part because I large part because I wanted to counsel young men that I now wanted to counsel young men that I now wanted to counsel young men that I now on the other side had better tools to on the other side had better tools to on the other side had better tools to deal with the emotional and the you deal with the emotional and the you deal with the emotional and the you know, social problems that I dealt with know, social problems that I dealt with know, social problems that I dealt with very poorly in college. And I would just very poorly in college. And I would just very poorly in college. And I would just there was no time for that in football. there was no time for that in football. there was no time for that in football. It was strictly football. It was strictly football. It was strictly football. And And And over the course of doing the beer miles, over the course of doing the beer miles, over the course of doing the beer miles, I transitioned to more NA beer because I I transitioned to more NA beer because I I transitioned to more NA beer because I just it wasn't about the alcohol. just it wasn't about the alcohol. just it wasn't about the alcohol. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And going to these college football >> And going to these college football >> And going to these college football teams and getting them excited about teams and getting them excited about teams and getting them excited about this weird quirky race that they were this weird quirky race that they were this weird quirky race that they were being put out of their comfort zone and being put out of their comfort zone and being put out of their comfort zone and then being able to sit and talk to them then being able to sit and talk to them then being able to sit and talk to them about their experience. That to me drew about their experience. That to me drew about their experience. That to me drew me closer to being able to have an me closer to being able to have an me closer to being able to have an impact that I wanted in football. And impact that I wanted in football. And impact that I wanted in football. And the you know, the run to Windsor was the you know, the run to Windsor was the you know, the run to Windsor was because I'd look at a guy like Ricky because I'd look at a guy like Ricky because I'd look at a guy like Ricky Gates and I saw his Trans Americana and Gates and I saw his Trans Americana and Gates and I saw his Trans Americana and like that, dude, I get tears watching like that, dude, I get tears watching like that, dude, I get tears watching that YouTube video. It is the thing I that YouTube video. It is the thing I that YouTube video. It is the thing I recommend to recommend to recommend to anybody who is interested in learning anybody who is interested in learning anybody who is interested in learning about ultra running and running and what about ultra running and running and what about ultra running and running and what it means to like to me what it means to it means to like to me what it means to it means to like to me what it means to get to the core and the essence of it. get to the core and the essence of it. get to the core and the essence of it. And so that to me was like, I'm quitting And so that to me was like, I'm quitting And so that to me was like, I'm quitting my job and I'm going to run home to my my job and I'm going to run home to my my job and I'm going to run home to my house in in Chicago, Illinois and then house in in Chicago, Illinois and then house in in Chicago, Illinois and then I'm going to run to Windsor and I'm I'm going to run to Windsor and I'm I'm going to run to Windsor and I'm going to have my own Ricky Gates going to have my own Ricky Gates going to have my own Ricky Gates experience. experience. experience. >> Meaning >> Meaning >> Meaning uh you're going to go get like a uh you're going to go get like a uh you're going to go get like a stroller or a push cart and do it Ricky stroller or a push cart and do it Ricky stroller or a push cart and do it Ricky Gates style. Gates style. Gates style. >> Yes, sleep in parks, find a random spot. >> Yes, sleep in parks, find a random spot. >> Yes, sleep in parks, find a random spot. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You mentioned You mentioned You mentioned uh your interest in in coaching football uh your interest in in coaching football uh your interest in in coaching football stemming from this desire to be stemming from this desire to be stemming from this desire to be a helpful voice for young men and I feel a helpful voice for young men and I feel a helpful voice for young men and I feel like that is like that is like that is that's the spirit and the sensibility in that's the spirit and the sensibility in that's the spirit and the sensibility in which you which you which you kind of show up on social media. Like kind of show up on social media. Like kind of show up on social media. Like it's always positive mindset oriented. it's always positive mindset oriented. it's always positive mindset oriented. It's never like look what I did or It's never like look what I did or It's never like look what I did or anything like that. Like I feel like anything like that. Like I feel like anything like that. Like I feel like you're fulfilling whatever it is inside you're fulfilling whatever it is inside you're fulfilling whatever it is inside you that wants to be that mentor and you that wants to be that mentor and you that wants to be that mentor and that coach at least that coach at least that coach at least digitally in the way that you digitally in the way that you digitally in the way that you um um um acquit yourself on social media. acquit yourself on social media. acquit yourself on social media. >> That's what I hope. >> That's what I hope. >> That's what I hope. I think it's always uh I think it's always uh I think it's always uh it's affirming or reaffirming to it's affirming or reaffirming to it's affirming or reaffirming to get feedback. You know, that some of the get feedback. You know, that some of the get feedback. You know, that some of the DMs I've gotten is is incredible. DMs I've gotten is is incredible. DMs I've gotten is is incredible. And And And I'm just so appreciative that people are I'm just so appreciative that people are I'm just so appreciative that people are taking that message and then taking taking that message and then taking taking that message and then taking action in their life. action in their life. action in their life. You know, when You know, when You know, when that one of the months of the calendar that one of the months of the calendar that one of the months of the calendar club challenge, I had encouraged people club challenge, I had encouraged people club challenge, I had encouraged people to come out and I would help set their to come out and I would help set their to come out and I would help set their new distance PR. new distance PR. new distance PR. And one of my buddies, Landon, he came And one of my buddies, Landon, he came And one of my buddies, Landon, he came out and he did 13 miles. out and he did 13 miles. out and he did 13 miles. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And a guy from his hometown >> And a guy from his hometown >> And a guy from his hometown had seen him do that had seen him do that had seen him do that and decided to sign up for his first and decided to sign up for his first and decided to sign up for his first half marathon. half marathon. half marathon. And only because he had seen Landon do And only because he had seen Landon do And only because he had seen Landon do that. that. that. And to me it was this opportunity to see And to me it was this opportunity to see And to me it was this opportunity to see how what I was doing was rippling out how what I was doing was rippling out how what I was doing was rippling out into this friend that I had. And because into this friend that I had. And because into this friend that I had. And because he had taken action on on a belief um he had taken action on on a belief um he had taken action on on a belief um it had caused an a ripple effect out. it had caused an a ripple effect out. it had caused an a ripple effect out. And that's only possible if And that's only possible if And that's only possible if people take action. That's only possible people take action. That's only possible people take action. That's only possible if like I don't want to create a bunch if like I don't want to create a bunch if like I don't want to create a bunch of of of couch supporters or people that are just couch supporters or people that are just couch supporters or people that are just there to cheer me on. I genuinely want there to cheer me on. I genuinely want there to cheer me on. I genuinely want people to take the lessons that I'm people to take the lessons that I'm people to take the lessons that I'm learning and apply them to their own learning and apply them to their own learning and apply them to their own life in the ways that I was able to do life in the ways that I was able to do life in the ways that I was able to do and still continuing to do and learning and still continuing to do and learning and still continuing to do and learning from guys like Harvey and from guys like Harvey and from guys like Harvey and I want that for other people. I want that for other people. I want that for other people. And I think And I think And I think what the thing that I do that embodies what the thing that I do that embodies what the thing that I do that embodies this most that I get to witness this is this most that I get to witness this is this most that I get to witness this is the running plunge stuff we do. the running plunge stuff we do. the running plunge stuff we do. Because in real time it is watching Because in real time it is watching Because in real time it is watching people do something that they never people do something that they never people do something that they never thought they could possibly do, let thought they could possibly do, let thought they could possibly do, let alone run 5 miles. Like most of these alone run 5 miles. Like most of these alone run 5 miles. Like most of these people showing up aren't runners. people showing up aren't runners. people showing up aren't runners. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And then you get to see them transform >> And then you get to see them transform >> And then you get to see them transform it. And then the next week you see them it. And then the next week you see them it. And then the next week you see them bring back a friend. bring back a friend. bring back a friend. And they're inviting people into this And they're inviting people into this And they're inviting people into this experience. experience. experience. And I think so many people watching this And I think so many people watching this And I think so many people watching this or listening to this, you have that or listening to this, you have that or listening to this, you have that ability to impact somebody in a way that ability to impact somebody in a way that ability to impact somebody in a way that gets them excited to show up more in gets them excited to show up more in gets them excited to show up more in their own life. their own life. their own life. And if if if nothing else gets taken And if if if nothing else gets taken And if if if nothing else gets taken away from what I have to say, it is that away from what I have to say, it is that away from what I have to say, it is that like like like what you do matters, what you do matters, what you do matters, how you treat people, how you impact how you treat people, how you impact how you treat people, how you impact people matters, and it starts by you people matters, and it starts by you people matters, and it starts by you showing up and demonstrating that in showing up and demonstrating that in showing up and demonstrating that in your life so that people can say your life so that people can say your life so that people can say if you can do it, I can do it, too. if you can do it, I can do it, too. if you can do it, I can do it, too. >> You're a change agent. >> You're a change agent. >> You're a change agent. You're a change agent masquerading as an You're a change agent masquerading as an You're a change agent masquerading as an ultra runner. You know what I mean? Like ultra runner. You know what I mean? Like ultra runner. You know what I mean? Like that's the real mission that's the real mission that's the real mission that you're on, I think. that you're on, I think. that you're on, I think. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And running is a vehicle for expressing >> And running is a vehicle for expressing >> And running is a vehicle for expressing that that that that idea. But you're trying to get that idea. But you're trying to get that idea. But you're trying to get people to wake up and people to wake up and people to wake up and transform their lives. transform their lives. transform their lives. When you're out running your Calendar When you're out running your Calendar When you're out running your Calendar Club training plan, do you have like Club training plan, do you have like Club training plan, do you have like threshold days or tempo days, or is it threshold days or tempo days, or is it threshold days or tempo days, or is it all just zone two, you know, in your all just zone two, you know, in your all just zone two, you know, in your mind or whatever, like whatever's pace mind or whatever, like whatever's pace mind or whatever, like whatever's pace you can sustain for that distance? you can sustain for that distance? you can sustain for that distance? >> Yeah, it's like 12 and 1/2 minute mile. >> Yeah, it's like 12 and 1/2 minute mile. >> Yeah, it's like 12 and 1/2 minute mile. >> Uh-huh. >> Uh-huh. >> Uh-huh. >> And it's stopping at a grocery store to >> And it's stopping at a grocery store to >> And it's stopping at a grocery store to get some donuts or something. get some donuts or something. get some donuts or something. >> And that's that's it. >> And that's that's it. >> And that's that's it. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> There's no threshold that, you know, >> There's no threshold that, you know, >> There's no threshold that, you know, there's no There's no need for you to there's no There's no need for you to there's no There's no need for you to run fast ever. run fast ever. run fast ever. >> Ever. >> Ever. >> Ever. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Ever. >> Ever. >> Ever. So it's it's really more So it's it's really more So it's it's really more you know, the running has I've built you know, the running has I've built you know, the running has I've built that foundation in that year-long that foundation in that year-long that foundation in that year-long Calendar Club, I really built that Calendar Club, I really built that Calendar Club, I really built that foundation. Um but to me, foundation. Um but to me, foundation. Um but to me, what what what gets affected more in the backyard ultra gets affected more in the backyard ultra gets affected more in the backyard ultra are those moments where I have that are those moments where I have that are those moments where I have that identity of who am I. And so, identity of who am I. And so, identity of who am I. And so, to me, it's trying to find ways to do to me, it's trying to find ways to do to me, it's trying to find ways to do that more in my own life. Like, I've that more in my own life. Like, I've that more in my own life. Like, I've said this before, but said this before, but said this before, but I don't get to decide if I'm a good I don't get to decide if I'm a good I don't get to decide if I'm a good husband. My wife gets to decide that. husband. My wife gets to decide that. husband. My wife gets to decide that. I don't get to decide if I'm a good I don't get to decide if I'm a good I don't get to decide if I'm a good friend. My friends decide that. friend. My friends decide that. friend. My friends decide that. And so, it's that constant communication And so, it's that constant communication And so, it's that constant communication and relationship with am I showing up and relationship with am I showing up and relationship with am I showing up with the fullness to which I need to show up the fullness to which I need to show up in the places that I need to, or am I in the places that I need to, or am I in the places that I need to, or am I just thinking that I am, or telling just thinking that I am, or telling just thinking that I am, or telling myself I am, or stroking my ego enough myself I am, or stroking my ego enough myself I am, or stroking my ego enough to tell that story in mind. And if to tell that story in mind. And if to tell that story in mind. And if there's any disconnect in what is there's any disconnect in what is there's any disconnect in what is reality versus what is like a reality versus what is like a reality versus what is like a self-belief, self-belief, self-belief, then that is what will show up for me 70 then that is what will show up for me 70 then that is what will show up for me 70 hours into a backyard ultra. Mhm. And hours into a backyard ultra. Mhm. And hours into a backyard ultra. Mhm. And so, so, so, as much as the running and the strength as much as the running and the strength as much as the running and the strength training and all of that is are good training and all of that is are good training and all of that is are good work towards becoming a better athlete, work towards becoming a better athlete, work towards becoming a better athlete, I I really lean on I I really lean on I I really lean on trying to be the highest of character trying to be the highest of character trying to be the highest of character person I can be. person I can be. person I can be. >> How is this relationship with running >> How is this relationship with running >> How is this relationship with running contributing to you being a better human contributing to you being a better human contributing to you being a better human as opposed to an ego-obsessed, as opposed to an ego-obsessed, as opposed to an ego-obsessed, performance-optimizing performance-optimizing performance-optimizing maniac? maniac? maniac? >> Great question, [laughter] Rich. >> Great question, [laughter] Rich. >> Great question, [laughter] Rich. >> No, I mean, that's that's the question >> No, I mean, that's that's the question >> No, I mean, that's that's the question you're asking. you're asking. you're asking. >> Yeah, like this is this is there's a >> Yeah, like this is this is there's a >> Yeah, like this is this is there's a difference between being able to put in difference between being able to put in difference between being able to put in a good performance at a crazy race like a good performance at a crazy race like a good performance at a crazy race like that, and that, and that, and somebody who's looking at that as a somebody who's looking at that as a somebody who's looking at that as a means by which to become a better human means by which to become a better human means by which to become a better human being. being. being. >> Yeah. Early on in my journals, >> Yeah. Early on in my journals, >> Yeah. Early on in my journals, it was me trying to it was me trying to it was me trying to create evidence to build courage and create evidence to build courage and create evidence to build courage and confidence, because I didn't have that confidence, because I didn't have that confidence, because I didn't have that as I had that belief, but I didn't have as I had that belief, but I didn't have as I had that belief, but I didn't have that as the reality. that as the reality. that as the reality. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And now that I have a lot of the >> And now that I have a lot of the >> And now that I have a lot of the accolades or the things that that accolades or the things that that accolades or the things that that person, that younger kid would have person, that younger kid would have person, that younger kid would have knew in his heart, but couldn't actually knew in his heart, but couldn't actually knew in his heart, but couldn't actually show anyone or even himself. Now it is a show anyone or even himself. Now it is a show anyone or even himself. Now it is a constant trying to go inward and remain constant trying to go inward and remain constant trying to go inward and remain grounded and humble because grounded and humble because grounded and humble because now on the other side, there all of now on the other side, there all of now on the other side, there all of those things can can get wrapped up and those things can can get wrapped up and those things can can get wrapped up and swirled and taken me in a direction that swirled and taken me in a direction that swirled and taken me in a direction that I don't want to go in or get wrapped up I don't want to go in or get wrapped up I don't want to go in or get wrapped up in things that in things that in things that um aren't at the core of what I do. And um aren't at the core of what I do. And um aren't at the core of what I do. And I think having a strong wife and keeping I think having a strong wife and keeping I think having a strong wife and keeping me grounded in that way has been the me grounded in that way has been the me grounded in that way has been the biggest blessing that I could ever ask biggest blessing that I could ever ask biggest blessing that I could ever ask for because she really for because she really for because she really keeps me rooted in the things that keeps me rooted in the things that keeps me rooted in the things that ultimately matter. And you know, it's a ultimately matter. And you know, it's a ultimately matter. And you know, it's a funny instance where at midstate um I funny instance where at midstate um I funny instance where at midstate um I was 24, 30 hours in and I waved off one was 24, 30 hours in and I waved off one was 24, 30 hours in and I waved off one of our of our of our helpers or you know, our crew guys, helpers or you know, our crew guys, helpers or you know, our crew guys, Cody. And she was like, Mark, Cody. And she was like, Mark, Cody. And she was like, Mark, mind your manners. These people are here mind your manners. These people are here mind your manners. These people are here helping you. helping you. helping you. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> And I'm like, okay, I'm sorry. So it's >> And I'm like, okay, I'm sorry. So it's >> And I'm like, okay, I'm sorry. So it's just like it is this I have these good just like it is this I have these good just like it is this I have these good people in my corner that people in my corner that people in my corner that don't care about that, don't want me to don't care about that, don't want me to don't care about that, don't want me to get wrapped up in that. And I think that get wrapped up in that. And I think that get wrapped up in that. And I think that that has helped me in ways that um that has helped me in ways that um that has helped me in ways that um I'm so blessed for. I'm so blessed for. I'm so blessed for. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. What is the message to the person who's What is the message to the person who's What is the message to the person who's stuck? It's similar to the question I stuck? It's similar to the question I stuck? It's similar to the question I asked you before, but asked you before, but asked you before, but if you were to like look directly into if you were to like look directly into if you were to like look directly into the camera and deliver the football the camera and deliver the football the camera and deliver the football coach speech coach speech coach speech to to to the young man who's on the couch and the young man who's on the couch and the young man who's on the couch and can't get off YouTube, likes your can't get off YouTube, likes your can't get off YouTube, likes your videos, maybe even watched the BPN live videos, maybe even watched the BPN live videos, maybe even watched the BPN live stream and is inspired by that, but is stream and is inspired by that, but is stream and is inspired by that, but is struggling to connect the dots, struggling to connect the dots, struggling to connect the dots, translating inspiration into contrary translating inspiration into contrary translating inspiration into contrary action. action. action. I think I think I think it is it is it is trying to bring the awareness to the trying to bring the awareness to the trying to bring the awareness to the disconnect that you feel with yourself disconnect that you feel with yourself disconnect that you feel with yourself is because of a lack of action. is because of a lack of action. is because of a lack of action. Like, it all comes back to Like, it all comes back to Like, it all comes back to what you are either doing or not doing what you are either doing or not doing what you are either doing or not doing to bring yourself closer to this belief to bring yourself closer to this belief to bring yourself closer to this belief that you have because that you have because that you have because if they feel stuck, that means that they if they feel stuck, that means that they if they feel stuck, that means that they feel like they should be somewhere else feel like they should be somewhere else feel like they should be somewhere else that they're not. that they're not. that they're not. And the only way to get there is by And the only way to get there is by And the only way to get there is by taking a step forward. That's the only taking a step forward. That's the only taking a step forward. That's the only way that I get through the Backyard way that I get through the Backyard way that I get through the Backyard Ultras. That's the only way that I get Ultras. That's the only way that I get Ultras. That's the only way that I get through any of the hard moments in my through any of the hard moments in my through any of the hard moments in my life life life have been have been have been taking the next possible step forward taking the next possible step forward taking the next possible step forward and then taking it. and then taking it. and then taking it. And then not being so focused on And then not being so focused on And then not being so focused on the outcome or focused on the result of the outcome or focused on the result of the outcome or focused on the result of that, but just appreciating the fact that, but just appreciating the fact that, but just appreciating the fact that you took one step, and you can look that you took one step, and you can look that you took one step, and you can look back and see that you are now farther back and see that you are now farther back and see that you are now farther along in the journey to becoming closer along in the journey to becoming closer along in the journey to becoming closer to the person that you want to be. to the person that you want to be. to the person that you want to be. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> It's about >> It's about >> It's about the step that you can take in the moment the step that you can take in the moment the step that you can take in the moment that you find yourself in. It's not that you find yourself in. It's not that you find yourself in. It's not about about about running in the cold to the Mississippi running in the cold to the Mississippi running in the cold to the Mississippi River and taking a sledgehammer to the River and taking a sledgehammer to the River and taking a sledgehammer to the river to jump into the You know, like, I river to jump into the You know, like, I river to jump into the You know, like, I think people think, "Well, I'm not think people think, "Well, I'm not think people think, "Well, I'm not really doing anything unless I'm doing really doing anything unless I'm doing really doing anything unless I'm doing something like that. something like that. something like that. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> It's not going to matter whether I get >> It's not going to matter whether I get >> It's not going to matter whether I get up and walk around the block or decide up and walk around the block or decide up and walk around the block or decide to put my phone down for an hour." But to put my phone down for an hour." But to put my phone down for an hour." But those really are the levers of change. those really are the levers of change. those really are the levers of change. Each tiny little thing that you do Each tiny little thing that you do Each tiny little thing that you do engenders you with a little bit more engenders you with a little bit more engenders you with a little bit more self-esteem than you had prior. And it's self-esteem than you had prior. And it's self-esteem than you had prior. And it's about building ever so gradually on top about building ever so gradually on top about building ever so gradually on top of those things. People don't realize of those things. People don't realize of those things. People don't realize you've been out crushing ultras for like you've been out crushing ultras for like you've been out crushing ultras for like 7 years now. Like, you've been run you 7 years now. Like, you've been run you 7 years now. Like, you've been run you You put a You put 7 years into being You put a You put 7 years into being You put a You put 7 years into being able to do what you've done this past able to do what you've done this past able to do what you've done this past year and to set yourself up for the year and to set yourself up for the year and to set yourself up for the races races races that you're going to be participating in that you're going to be participating in that you're going to be participating in this year. It didn't happen overnight. this year. It didn't happen overnight. this year. It didn't happen overnight. And yeah, you were a football player and And yeah, you were a football player and And yeah, you were a football player and a lacrosse player and you had some a lacrosse player and you had some a lacrosse player and you had some experience with being an athlete, but experience with being an athlete, but experience with being an athlete, but you weren't a runner and you went into you weren't a runner and you went into you weren't a runner and you went into this unknown world and you went all in, this unknown world and you went all in, this unknown world and you went all in, but you know, it started with that first but you know, it started with that first but you know, it started with that first jog when you were confused and your jog when you were confused and your jog when you were confused and your identity as an athlete was being identity as an athlete was being identity as an athlete was being challenged and you were trying to figure challenged and you were trying to figure challenged and you were trying to figure out who you were or who you were going out who you were or who you were going out who you were or who you were going to be in the aftermath of that college to be in the aftermath of that college to be in the aftermath of that college experience. experience. experience. >> Yeah, the podcast with Rachel >> Yeah, the podcast with Rachel >> Yeah, the podcast with Rachel I think she you guys touched on how it I think she you guys touched on how it I think she you guys touched on how it was one decision, very similar to mine, was one decision, very similar to mine, was one decision, very similar to mine, of going out for this run and then you of going out for this run and then you of going out for this run and then you you now have this understanding of what you now have this understanding of what you now have this understanding of what potential you have potential you have potential you have and what you can have in the future. and what you can have in the future. and what you can have in the future. And one small decision made many, many And one small decision made many, many And one small decision made many, many times opened up the door times opened up the door times opened up the door for this incredible [snorts] experience for this incredible [snorts] experience for this incredible [snorts] experience for her to win this race and inspire so for her to win this race and inspire so for her to win this race and inspire so many people, but that only happened many people, but that only happened many people, but that only happened because she took because she took because she took that first step. that first step. that first step. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> There's so much potential in anybody's >> There's so much potential in anybody's >> There's so much potential in anybody's life, the person listening to this that life, the person listening to this that life, the person listening to this that you will never experience if you just you will never experience if you just you will never experience if you just sit and do nothing. sit and do nothing. sit and do nothing. And nobody else can do that for you. And nobody else can do that for you. And nobody else can do that for you. Nobody else can want that enough for Nobody else can want that enough for Nobody else can want that enough for you. you. you. You either have to be You either have to be You either have to be in fear or hate your situation so much in fear or hate your situation so much in fear or hate your situation so much that you're willing to change or you that you're willing to change or you that you're willing to change or you have to want that outcome or that that have to want that outcome or that that have to want that outcome or that that journey or that journey or that journey or that person that you want to be to become a person that you want to be to become a person that you want to be to become a reality so bad that you're going to do reality so bad that you're going to do reality so bad that you're going to do anything to make it happen. anything to make it happen. anything to make it happen. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> But it all like the mountain top is one >> But it all like the mountain top is one >> But it all like the mountain top is one step. step. step. The journey I've been on took one The journey I've been on took one The journey I've been on took one step. step. step. One run One run One run and and and building upon that and it took 7 years. building upon that and it took 7 years. building upon that and it took 7 years. And I'm still not done. You know, I'm And I'm still not done. You know, I'm And I'm still not done. You know, I'm still on this journey. The it's still still on this journey. The it's still still on this journey. The it's still the same process. the same process. the same process. But now it's it But now it's it But now it's it that momentum has built. that momentum has built. that momentum has built. >> When I think about your story, I think >> When I think about your story, I think >> When I think about your story, I think you are you are you are a beautiful embodiment of what I a beautiful embodiment of what I a beautiful embodiment of what I call the holy trinity of change. To call the holy trinity of change. To call the holy trinity of change. To change, change, change, you have to do things. It's about doing. you have to do things. It's about doing. you have to do things. It's about doing. It's about action, contrary action, It's about action, contrary action, It's about action, contrary action, consistency, momentum, all of these very consistency, momentum, all of these very consistency, momentum, all of these very kind of like tactile, practical, kind of like tactile, practical, kind of like tactile, practical, actionable like things that you have to actionable like things that you have to actionable like things that you have to do to move your life forward in a do to move your life forward in a do to move your life forward in a different trajectory. different trajectory. different trajectory. But But But there are also a bunch of things that there are also a bunch of things that there are also a bunch of things that you then have to undo. Like if you just you then have to undo. Like if you just you then have to undo. Like if you just keep doing, keep doing, keep doing, eventually you're going to be running in eventually you're going to be running in eventually you're going to be running in place unless you look in the rearview place unless you look in the rearview place unless you look in the rearview mirror and start to untangle like a mirror and start to untangle like a mirror and start to untangle like a bunch of knots about your story and why bunch of knots about your story and why bunch of knots about your story and why you are the way you are. you are the way you are. you are the way you are. Otherwise, you're just going to you're Otherwise, you're just going to you're Otherwise, you're just going to you're going to trip yourself up at some point. going to trip yourself up at some point. going to trip yourself up at some point. You're going to plateau. You're going to plateau. You're going to plateau. So you have to be able to have the So you have to be able to have the So you have to be able to have the courage to do that part of of change, I courage to do that part of of change, I courage to do that part of of change, I think. And then the third think. And then the third think. And then the third the third piece is the third piece is the third piece is being. Like you have to be able to be being. Like you have to be able to be being. Like you have to be able to be present at some point. You have to be present at some point. You have to be present at some point. You have to be able to um show up able to um show up able to um show up conscious enough so that you can enjoy conscious enough so that you can enjoy conscious enough so that you can enjoy this experience that you are having so this experience that you are having so this experience that you are having so that you can return it to other people that you can return it to other people that you can return it to other people as an act of service. Cuz if you're not as an act of service. Cuz if you're not as an act of service. Cuz if you're not present and you're always caught up in present and you're always caught up in present and you're always caught up in the next thing or what happened the day the next thing or what happened the day the next thing or what happened the day before, you're missing your entire life before, you're missing your entire life before, you're missing your entire life and you're missing the gift that you've and you're missing the gift that you've and you're missing the gift that you've been given that you are in the position been given that you are in the position been given that you are in the position to then pass on. And I see you kind of to then pass on. And I see you kind of to then pass on. And I see you kind of firing on all cylinders firing on all cylinders firing on all cylinders with respect to that. As And And And with respect to that. As And And And with respect to that. As And And And being such a young person, like that's being such a young person, like that's being such a young person, like that's truly inspiring, man. truly inspiring, man. truly inspiring, man. >> Thank you. The thing I've been most >> Thank you. The thing I've been most >> Thank you. The thing I've been most proud of proud of proud of that has helped a lot of that has helped a lot of that has helped a lot of saying saying saying yes to a future ahead. yes to a future ahead. yes to a future ahead. You know, there was a a time when I was You know, there was a a time when I was You know, there was a a time when I was on a work trip in the van in Texas and I on a work trip in the van in Texas and I on a work trip in the van in Texas and I went back to a stadium that I played in went back to a stadium that I played in went back to a stadium that I played in a national quarter final game junior in a national quarter final game junior in a national quarter final game junior in college. We lost that game. I was college. We lost that game. I was college. We lost that game. I was distraught after that game. distraught after that game. distraught after that game. And years later I went back and I sat in And years later I went back and I sat in And years later I went back and I sat in that stadium and I just watched myself. that stadium and I just watched myself. that stadium and I just watched myself. And I watched this kid who was getting And I watched this kid who was getting And I watched this kid who was getting in all sorts of trouble, dealing with in all sorts of trouble, dealing with in all sorts of trouble, dealing with all this emotional burden and and not all this emotional burden and and not all this emotional burden and and not knowing how to deal with it and walking knowing how to deal with it and walking knowing how to deal with it and walking around surrounded by people but feeling around surrounded by people but feeling around surrounded by people but feeling entirely lonely. And now 3 years later I entirely lonely. And now 3 years later I entirely lonely. And now 3 years later I was able to forgive that person. I was was able to forgive that person. I was was able to forgive that person. I was able to look at that person and able to look at that person and able to look at that person and understand that the reality of the understand that the reality of the understand that the reality of the situation that he is in is not the full situation that he is in is not the full situation that he is in is not the full truth because I'm sitting here today and truth because I'm sitting here today and truth because I'm sitting here today and I get to see I get to see I get to see where the life has has led to from that where the life has has led to from that where the life has has led to from that decision and from the decisions that decision and from the decisions that decision and from the decisions that followed and that to me followed and that to me followed and that to me of like sitting in reflection and of like sitting in reflection and of like sitting in reflection and recognizing that like this goes back recognizing that like this goes back recognizing that like this goes back again like the story that you have again like the story that you have again like the story that you have that you want to write is in your hands. that you want to write is in your hands. that you want to write is in your hands. And I truly believe that no matter what And I truly believe that no matter what And I truly believe that no matter what situation or circumstance somebody is situation or circumstance somebody is situation or circumstance somebody is in, they have the ability to make that in, they have the ability to make that in, they have the ability to make that change. And if they decide to do it, change. And if they decide to do it, change. And if they decide to do it, they're going to bring other people they're going to bring other people they're going to bring other people along with them because people just along with them because people just along with them because people just they're drawn to that. When people they're drawn to that. When people they're drawn to that. When people decide to say enough is enough, I want decide to say enough is enough, I want decide to say enough is enough, I want to move in a different way, there's to move in a different way, there's to move in a different way, there's going to be some friction I'm sure going to be some friction I'm sure going to be some friction I'm sure but there's also going to be people that but there's also going to be people that but there's also going to be people that have been waiting to be given permission have been waiting to be given permission have been waiting to be given permission to do that in their own life. You can be to do that in their own life. You can be to do that in their own life. You can be that person to somebody else and you that person to somebody else and you that person to somebody else and you don't have to do 500 miles or 300 miles don't have to do 500 miles or 300 miles don't have to do 500 miles or 300 miles at a backyard. You don't have to run to at a backyard. You don't have to run to at a backyard. You don't have to run to the Beer Mile World Classic in order to the Beer Mile World Classic in order to the Beer Mile World Classic in order to do that. You just have to take whatever do that. You just have to take whatever do that. You just have to take whatever is whatever you're running from right is whatever you're running from right is whatever you're running from right now, whatever your fear you are afraid now, whatever your fear you are afraid now, whatever your fear you are afraid to face. When you face that, you will to face. When you face that, you will to face. When you face that, you will inspire somebody else in your life to do inspire somebody else in your life to do inspire somebody else in your life to do that as well. that as well. that as well. >> The AA version of that is >> The AA version of that is >> The AA version of that is the person who has 7 days of sobriety the person who has 7 days of sobriety the person who has 7 days of sobriety is going to have a larger impact on the is going to have a larger impact on the is going to have a larger impact on the person who just walked in the door who person who just walked in the door who person who just walked in the door who has zero days than the person who has 28 has zero days than the person who has 28 has zero days than the person who has 28 years. That's an alien to that person. years. That's an alien to that person. years. That's an alien to that person. Just like Harvey Lewis or you is going Just like Harvey Lewis or you is going Just like Harvey Lewis or you is going to be an alien to somebody who's never to be an alien to somebody who's never to be an alien to somebody who's never run a mile. But if you've never run a run a mile. But if you've never run a run a mile. But if you've never run a mile and you run 1 mile, then you are a mile and you run 1 mile, then you are a mile and you run 1 mile, then you are a source of inspiration for that person source of inspiration for that person source of inspiration for that person who can't get off the couch. Which means who can't get off the couch. Which means who can't get off the couch. Which means we all have the capacity to inspire and we all have the capacity to inspire and we all have the capacity to inspire and uplift the people around us. uplift the people around us. uplift the people around us. >> And everybody on that journey >> And everybody on that journey >> And everybody on that journey is as important to the impact of the is as important to the impact of the is as important to the impact of the continuum of that. continuum of that. continuum of that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> We need everybody along that path. >> We need everybody along that path. >> We need everybody along that path. You need the person to run 1 mile. You You need the person to run 1 mile. You You need the person to run 1 mile. You need that five like everybody need that five like everybody need that five like everybody What is hard to you is What is hard to you is What is hard to you is hard to you. It is not different than hard to you. It is not different than hard to you. It is not different than what's hard to me. It's just a different what's hard to me. It's just a different what's hard to me. It's just a different experience because of experience because of experience because of the years of which I've been doing this. the years of which I've been doing this. the years of which I've been doing this. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But somebody's 5K is as hard as running >> But somebody's 5K is as hard as running >> But somebody's 5K is as hard as running 306 miles is for me. 306 miles is for me. 306 miles is for me. And you need to step into that. And you need to step into that. And you need to step into that. >> Beautiful, man. I think that's a that's >> Beautiful, man. I think that's a that's >> Beautiful, man. I think that's a that's a great place to a great place to a great place to end it for today. end it for today. end it for today. >> Amazing. >> Amazing. >> Amazing. >> You're amazing, dude. I'm such a fan and >> You're amazing, dude. I'm such a fan and >> You're amazing, dude. I'm such a fan and I feel like you're just at the beginning I feel like you're just at the beginning I feel like you're just at the beginning of this amazing career and adventure and of this amazing career and adventure and of this amazing career and adventure and you have so much to give. That's your you have so much to give. That's your you have so much to give. That's your gift and that is your superpower. gift and that is your superpower. gift and that is your superpower. Running is just one way of giving you a Running is just one way of giving you a Running is just one way of giving you a platform to express that. platform to express that. platform to express that. But when the day comes and ultra running But when the day comes and ultra running But when the day comes and ultra running isn't what you're doing anymore, isn't what you're doing anymore, isn't what you're doing anymore, it feels like you're going to transition it feels like you're going to transition it feels like you're going to transition this into some other way of continuing this into some other way of continuing this into some other way of continuing to carry this message, which is which to carry this message, which is which to carry this message, which is which transcends like the sport of ultra transcends like the sport of ultra transcends like the sport of ultra running. running. running. And And And it's it's a privilege and an honor to it's it's a privilege and an honor to it's it's a privilege and an honor to spend time with you, dude. Thank you. spend time with you, dude. Thank you. spend time with you, dude. Thank you. >> Thank you for having me on. Right on, >> Thank you for having me on. Right on, >> Thank you for having me on. Right on, dude. Seriously. Right on. Peace.