You Are Not a Failure. You Failed at Something. Here Is the Difference — Dr. Nate Zinsser

Key Takeaway

Build confidence tonight with a five-minute ESP reflection: write where you gave quality effort, what you got right, and what you are making progress in. This creates daily evidence that you can trust yourself—without waiting for a huge win. When a setback happens, label it accurately: temporary, limited to one situation, and not representative of who you are. Then return your attention to the next controllable action.

Episode Overview

Dr. Nate Zinsser, longtime director of West Point’s performance psychology program, explains confidence as a trainable mental habit rather than a personality trait. He shares practical tools for building an internal bank account of successes, responding to failure without turning it into an identity, rehearsing performance vividly, and shifting from preparation to trust when it is time to execute.

Full Transcript

Transcript of You Are Not a Failure. You Failed at Something. Here Is the Difference — Dr. Nate Zinsser from The Ed Mylett Show. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

What is it that creates confidence in the brain? the brain? the brain? What we all have in our brains are clusters of neurons that fire as a result of certain thoughts and memories and experiences. Write out a list of your most enjoyable, enthusiastic, rewarding accomplishments in your life. I liken that process to basically opening up a psychological bank account of achievements, awards, good experiences. And when you do these little deposits, you're actually reminding your body of what that neurology is like. So for most people, they'll they'll say to you, "Well, I I haven't thrown a touchdown.

You know, I'm a entry-level person working in a cubicle somewhere, and I don't I don't have these deposits." The truth is, that's a lie, isn't it? define yourself by the quality of your effort, the successes that you have achieved and the magnitude of the obstacles that you have overcome. I've known people for example who are very confident people and frankly their spouse left them and their their confidence is annihilated or they're very good in business and then they've had a bad year or lost the business.

They've almost become a shell of themselves externally. What I say to them is we've got to protect that bank account of yours. Do we look at our setbacks as temporary or permanent? Make your pick. Secondly, do we keep them limited or do we globalize them? And third, and this is where it really gets important and this is what most people struggle with most of all. Hey, welcome back to the show everybody. So, this week I want to get right into it. We're going to talk about self-confidence.

And this is not your normal self-confidence podcast, you know, with the normal platitudes that you hear a million times about how to build self-confidence. This is going to be different. And the reason it's different is because of my guest. You guys know I curate guests that I believe can bring something to the table that haven't been at the table before for so many of you. And Dr. Zinszer is absolutely fits that criteria. Let me tell you why. He's the director of West Point's performance psychology program where he trains US military academy cadetses and leaders how to operate effectively, frankly, how to build their own self-confidence with some of the most important people in the world.

He's also worked with Olympic athletes, pro sports teams, kind of Eli Manning stands out to me because he beat my Patriots twice. So, I definitely have to dive into that one. And obviously corporate leaders and a meet elite military leaders as well. He's got a great book called The Confident Mind bestselling book as well. This is going to be a unique conversation. It's going to help you get more confidence. So, Dr. Zinszer, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me on, Ed. I'm really looking forward to this.

He's also medicated. He's eight days out of knee replacement surgery. I'm just kidding. kidding. kidding. Yeah, I'm only medicated with a set of menophins, so there will be no uh there will be no drowsiness. There will be no slips of the tongue. Um there will be no embarrassing references made. Outstanding. And by the way, it's okay if you do. It make it gets us more downloads. So, feel free. So, let me ask you a question. And I want to start out just basis just for kind of laying a foundation just cuz I'm curious myself too.

Tell me about your work at West Point. I've never been allowed anywhere near the place. So I would just like to know what your work's like there. Well, um, you got to come pay us a visit. Uh, the Military Academy is an extraordinary institution. extraordinary institution. extraordinary institution. Every year 4,000 young men and women from all across the country and from at least a dozen foreign countries uh train in a very rigorous curriculum including academic training, physical training, military training after that 47 month experience. These young men and women are graduated with a bachelor of science degree and they are commissioned as second lieutenants in the army.

They serve a minimum of five years. um a some of them go on to serve 10, 20, 30 years and reach very high ranks in the army. Uh others leave after five or 10 years and take leadership roles in the private sector um and civilian governance. Um, my work at West Point, 30 years directing a performance psychology program, was to take what we knew from sports science about the intangibles of human performance human performance human performance and take them out of any kind of mysterious or intangible framework and reduce them to learnable, practicable skills.

M skills. M skills. M so we were teaching cadetses the how to remain confident when the crap hits the fan which it always does. How to be focused on what's important even though there are a million distractions and how to retain energy and awareness and enthusiasm despite tons and tons of physical, mental and emotional stress. emotional stress. emotional stress. So good. So there's a curriculum that we established um which has been going on in West Point for over 30 years now and it's been exported to various units uh outside of West Point, different army posts around the country and around the world.

world. world. And now little pieces of it be exported. This is what's so great about podcasting by the way. Someone like me or you know probably some of my friends listening I really could get nowhere near West Point but through podcasting I'm going to pick up you know some of the things that these uh elite performers have picked up in their life. So let me ask you a question basic question first because I do a lot of work on self-confidence and I also work with athletes and and uh corporate people and CEOs etc.

But your work is so specific. What is it that creates confidence in the brain? Like just as a mechanism to begin with how would you answer that? What is it that creates confidence in the brain? Well the only thing that creates anything in the brain are clusters of neurons that fire together. Right. Okay. Right. Okay. Right. Okay. And what we all have in our brains are clusters of neurons that fire as a result of and as a cause to certain thoughts and memories and experiences. And if you get your brain continually firing those particular clumps of neurons, neurons, neurons, it just becomes your brain's default habit.

M habit. M habit. M and so you find yourself engaged rather than hesitant. You find yourself excited rather than apprehensive. And it's simply because you have trained yourself to think and think in one way only. only. only. And because you have been thinking in one way, you have literally done some physical rewiring. Yes. Of the gray matter between your ears and the gray matter that goes down your spinal cord. spinal cord. spinal cord. Now, that rewiring, let's say you're listening to you today and you're like, "Okay, I do have a consistent way of thinking and I've been thinking for 30 years as an unconfident person.

I've replayed memories from childhood or my adult experience where I've had a failure or a setback." Or maybe not even that. Maybe I've just always been pretty in my mind average. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. Right. You you just said it. I've always been in my mind pretty average. Keep going, Ed. Well, I'm not I so I live that I you know my belief system is if you live that way in your mind, your external world will probably produce those results, right? results, right? results, right?

You're 100% right. So So if I've lived this way for a long time, I've got that wiring. What are some of the practices and please take a few minutes on this that you would offer to my audience that could begin to rewire what goes on in their mind? Like actual practices, practical applications, strategic stuff. Um, first applicable practice, take whatever time is necessary and a piece of paper and a writing implement and write out a list of your most enjoyable, enthusiastic, rewarding accomplishments in your life.

Okay? Okay? Okay? Whatever they may be. Okay? Mhm. I liken that process to basically opening up a bank account, a psychological bank account of achievements, awards, achievements, awards, achievements, awards, good experiences. good experiences. good experiences. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. And everybody has them. We may have overlooked them overlooked them overlooked them for various reasons, which we can get into, but they're there. Okay. Nobody makes it into West Point. Nobody makes it into a college athletic program. Nobody makes it to a professional level. Nobody makes it to the seauite.

But I haven't done a hell of a lot of good things. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. So the first thing we need to do is shine a light on that. Okay. Okay. Okay. It's like being a minor and you're looking for those nuggets of gold or diamond. diamond. diamond. It's like being a detective. I'm looking for clues. So I outlined an exercise called the top 10 top 10 moments. If you're a baseball pitcher, it's your top 10 moments playing baseball. I was high school player of the year.

I had my first college start here. I got my first college win there. D. So that sort of establishes the bank account. And then and this exercise one the last guy who interviewed me for a podcast refers to this as the deadlift of mental training exercises. training exercises. training exercises. Okay. Okay. Okay. If you're going to do one strength exercise, you deadlift. Yep. If you're going to do one thing consistently in terms of building your confidence, you're going to do what I call the ESP, daily reflection.

daily reflection. daily reflection. Okay? Okay? Okay? At the end of every day, you reflect on your experiences of the day and ask yourself three questions. Where did I put in quality effort? Here, here, here. Second question, what did I get right? get right? get right? Oh, I made a success here. I I did well on this drill. I got this compliment there. Third question, what am I making progress in? progress in? progress in? Well, I'm getting better at understanding the periodic table. I'm getting better at understanding uh certain AI implications in my business.

I'm getting at better at throwing that deep corner back shoulder fade. Okay. Okay. Okay. And that reflection takes literally five minutes. Mhm. Mhm. And I encourage people to keep that in some kind of written journal format. Okay. Okay. Okay. And that is a daily deposit into that mental bank account that I described. described. described. You establish the bank account. Y Y Y and then you add to it and you add to it. and you add to it and you add to it. Those are [clears throat] those are the two most important exercises, practical drills that people can do to build up a sense of certainty about themselves.

themselves. themselves. Okay, guys, I have to tell you, first of all, don't discount what he just said. So, my producer is my son actually now, and so I know he's in the studio sort of uh smirking because one of the techniques that I teach with the athletes or leaders that I work with is called the highlight reel. Same deal. Same deal. Same deal. Correct. Same deal. But let's talk about why this works and why people don't do it. So the reason that I do so I I'll have people pick two or three highlights and then feed to themsel the cognitive rehearsal of the next highlight they wish to achieve in their life.

And the reason that this works everybody and you correct me if I'm wrong but confidence success peak performance the zone whatever you want to call it is actually a neurology. There's a chemistry that's happening within your body when you're choking or nervous or scared or unconfident. And there's a different chemistry in your body that you inhibit you inhibit you inhibit that is a confident one. And when you do these little deposits, you're actually reminding your body of what that neurology is like. Correct. Just making deposits.

deposits. deposits. That's that's a great way to understand it. Yes. it. Yes. it. Yes. Okay. Now, the challenge is for most people, it's interesting. The lack of confidence that we all have produces our filter for the way we see ourselves in the world. So, for most people, they'll say when you just said that, so let's just dig deep. Let's push each other here. They'll say to you, "Well, I I haven't thrown a touchdown. I didn't get into West Point. Heck, I couldn't get into a junior college or, you know, I'm a entry level person working in a cubicle somewhere, and I don't I don't have these deposits." The truth is, that's a lie, isn't it?

That they have had successes, but their lack of confidence is a filter where they discount themselves and the things they do well. So, if you ask the average person, give me a list of the 20 things the last year you've screwed up or messed up, they can recall that in a minute. But if you said to them, give me three things you did in the last month or the last day that were great. They have to search through this bizar this filter they've got that tells them they're worthless.

So, could you just speak to that for a second in terms of not all of it has to be some touchdown you've thrown in the NFL. It could simply be, you know, a great conference call you had or a great Zoom or a great interaction with your children that just was loving and kind, right? All of the above qualify above qualify above qualify any memory, any memory, any memory, any statement about yourself in the present, present, present, any any any fantasy, fantasy, fantasy, vision of something you want in the future that creates a sense of energy and optimism and enthusiasm is worth hanging on to.

however small it might be. be. be. The point that you're raising, Ed, which is really important, is that so many of us were brought up to think that we can only value our experience. We can only value ourselves value ourselves value ourselves if we have achieved everything that the world has deemed to be important. great grades in school, great bunch of friends, uh won every game you ever played in, uh had the most attractive spouse possible. We have been socialized to kind of search for, hang on to, and unfortunately define ourselves by our negative experiences.

negative experiences. negative experiences. So much of our socialization has brought us to that. And I am constantly and it sounds like you're constantly as well urging people to look for hang on to and define yourself by the quality of your effort, the successes that you have achieved and the basically the magnitude of the obstacles that you have overcome. Well, Well, Well, that's what you want to define yourself by. by. by. You know, one of the things that's really booming right now is people deciding to take their children's education into their own hands.

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So, start improving your health. Tiny Health is offering my listeners their most aggressive offer yet. 50 bucks off your first home test kit at tinyalth.com/mylet. Tinyhealth.comlet Tinyhealth.comlet for $50 off. tinyhealth.commylet. The two things you said there that stand out to me that you've repeated twice and I don't think people give themselves enough credit for this is effort. The basis often for the foundation of confidence has to begin with your effort because effort precedes the result. And so if all of your confidence guys listening is based on the the results you produce all the time, you're going to be waiting around a long time to build that self-confidence level.

But if it's predicated on effort, you know that I did get into the gym. I did do the reps I said I was going to do. I did do one more at the end when I promised myself. promised myself. promised myself. I emptied my dagon mailbox at the end of the day before I left the office. See, this is fascinating to me. Like this is how confidence is truly built everybody. Let me ask you a question about um about um about um a failure. So, or a traumatic event because I know with with war fighters or soldiers of any type, they mean they may have uh there could be a PTSD moment, there could be childhood trauma, there could be I flunked a test and this often times can kind of scramble our wiring, right?

where like I've known people for example who are very confident people and frankly their spouse left them and their their confidence is annihilated or they're very good in business and then something happened to the business and they've had a bad year or lost the business and in all honesty they've almost become a shell of themselves externally and I know that started internally started internally started internally they never fully recovered from that setback. setback. setback. What would you say to that person who's gone through something like that?

What I'd say to them is we've got to protect that bank account of yours. We've got to set up some cognitive safeguards safeguards safeguards so that the imperfect physical world that we live in and your personal physical inevitable imperfections do not destroy destroy destroy the energy, the optimism and the enthusiasm that you have been building up by reflecting constructively on your various me memories and your experiences. experiences. experiences. So, I steal a whole lot of work from um the positive psychology movement um spearheaded by Martin Seligman at the University of Pennsylvania looking at how do we mentally respond to setbacks?

Do we see them as temporary? Yeah, they happened. They suck, but it was just a one-time deal. Or do we say to ourselves, uhoh, it happened and it's going to happen over and over and over again? Permanent. Do we look at our setbacks as temporary or permanent? Take your pick. Wow. Wow. Wow. Secondly, do we look at our imperfections and our setbacks and our failures as basically limited in terms of where they occurred? Yes, it happened in that inning of the baseball game. Yes, it happened at that in that con conversation with that individual or that board meeting.

Or do we say to ourselves, oh, every time everywhere all these things get screwed up. Do we keep them limited or do we globalize them? Okay. And third, and this is where it really gets important, and this is what most people struggle with most of all, when a setback takes place, are we able to put it in a perspective? Yeah, it happened, but it's nonrepresentative of me. Oo, Oo, Oo, it's nonrepresentative of me. It happened. There could be consequences, but that setback does not tell the truth about me.

about me. about me. Wow. So I have to keep my setbacks and failures temporary limited not the truth as opposed to permanent everywhere and absolutely the truth about myself. about myself. about myself. That's and and that's just a distinction that everybody can make. It takes some practice to establish that as a habit. And I'm constantly counseling people to do that. Challenging them to put just the difficulties of life with a capital L in those temporary limited and not the truth terms. terms. terms. Because if we go that way, we are blind to our own possibilities and to our own capabilities.

capabilities. capabilities. Wow, that's profound. That was really good right there, Nate. Really good. You know, I I find the third one so prominent where people will have a failure and I'll literally hear them say, I'm a failure. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. That is precisely the point. Instead of, okay, I failed at something, they make the categorical judgment, henceforth I am a failure. No, you might have goofed that calculus test. You might have goofed that fitness test. You might have goofed your execution of your high bar set in the gymnastics meet.

Okay. Let's leave it right there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let's not draw the conclusion that I'm a failure categorically. Yep. This globalization practice that. practice that. practice that. Yeah. That term you made of You ought to ask yourself this everybody too. Do you sort of globalize results? I love that term because you know you were in a relationship this person doesn't love you anymore. That doesn't mean you're unlovable. unlovable. unlovable. That means in this relationship, you know, another thing I've deduced to you and it's like it's it's an old school thing because you're such a scientifically based guy, but that you don't hear anymore and what I call like self-help circles or or personal development or self-confidence.

This interesting thing you've said three different times, I think, and I want you to speak to it. You know, it used to be that, hey, listen, you got to get excited. You got to have some enthusiasm. I ne You know what's interesting? I never hear that anymore, the word enthusiasm. You've said it three times. It's like almost like this missing thing that used to be talked about all the time. But there's something to be said for the level of enthusiasm you bring to a project, a meeting, a rel.

And it's just one of these things that at least for me, I think we just forget. It's like, okay, I prepared my notes. I know what I'm going to say. Or we've got a game plan for the game or the meeting. and you forget the enthusiasm, the energy part of confidence, of success, of making it infectious. So speak to enthusiasm and also how does that impact the other people, your family or business people you lead. Um, Um, Um, you know, I think the word enthusiasm come sometimes gets misinterpreted to mean, you know, confetti and balloons and and angels blowing trumpets, uh, great big deals.

But how about just that little sort of secret smile? H. Yeah, this could be really cool. That's enthusiasm. enthusiasm. enthusiasm. This meeting could turn out great. We could smoke these guys in the second half. Okay. I could turn my platoon into the into the into the hottest bunch of dudes and dames in the army. And it it it's not this boisterous loud thing. It's just this internal. internal. internal. Yeah, that could be cool. That that level of enthusiasm I think is really productive and it's something that you can sustain throughout the day, the week, the month, the quarter career, you know, jumping up and down and with the balloons and the confetti.

Oh, that's kind of tiring, you know. know. know. Yeah, you're right. And and to your second point, it's just that quiet. Okay. we're going to do this. That quiet level of enthusiasm, people are drawn to that automatically. They don't necessarily know why. They just say, "It's cool being around that dude." Okay, that woman has certain degree of classy power because she communicates, but she's not doing it necessarily to impress anybody else. else. else. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She's just doing it because she knows it's the right thing to do.

And it somehow, I don't know, psychically leeches out and draws other people to you. you. you. This is why I love doing the show. It's the little subtle distinctions that I get from someone like you. so profound as a 55-year-old guy of bringing a sustainable level of enthusiasm to your endeavors, not the crazy bells and whistles that can't l can't endure the season, the year, the company. company. company. Uh, you know, you're right. It's sustainable enthusiasm. I love that classy level of confidence. By the way, everyone, a lot of you are listening on audio.

Those of you that are listening on YouTube saw this, but what Dr. Zer was doing was he was there was this kind of smirk in his physiology. And so I want you to speak to this for a second too. Is there a connection between physiology and the mental level of confidence? Whether that be physical exertion, the way we use our face, our breathing, is there a correlation in your mind that you teach between physiology, physical movement, and confidence? confidence? confidence? Um, there definitely is a connection.

I wouldn't consider myself an expert on it. Um, I do know that shoulders slump forward, head facing downward tends to both communicate a lack of enthusiasm enthusiasm enthusiasm and it and it and it literally tends to reduce it in oneself. Conversely, Conversely, Conversely, shoulders back, shoulders back, shoulders back, chin up a little bit, eye contact. Okay. This communicates to the observer a level of engagement, a level of enthusiasm. enthusiasm. enthusiasm. Yep. Yep. Yep. And there is some research to demonstrate that posture alters your emotional state.

Okay. Okay. Okay. It's somewhat controversial, but I urge everybody to try it. Yep. Yep. Yep. Sit up straighter. Yep. I I by the way, I shoulders back. shoulders back. shoulders back. I agree. I actually think I don't think this is disputable. Listen, when you got on the Zoom here today, I knew immediately within 30 seconds I was dealing with a confident person as it comes to the topic he was speaking on. There's an there's a uh an assumption physically that somebody makes when they're confident and there's a doubting sort of constricted bent over physiology of someone who is hopeful you're going to believe them.

I hope you like me. I hope you find me attractive. I hope you think there's a difference between hoping and assumption. And it's not arrogance. There is a physical connotation to how we do hold ourselves. And it's not. And to your point, I don't think it's over the top. I think it's subtle. I think it's nuanced. I don't think it has to be, you know, you see those guys that walk around way too puffed out, right? Way too much of their chest. You go, "This guy's a he's a poser." And I'm sure there's a similar physiology for a woman.

It's subtle, but I do think those of you that are working on your confidence, you should at least check a box of how's my physiology, my facial expressions, how I walk, how I talk, my pace, my tonality, my cadence I think matters. think matters. think matters. Am I acting in a way that I would want to follow somebody? Wow. Wow. Wow. You know, You know, You know, am I being the kind of person that I would want to follow? Wow. Wow. Wow. It can be as simple as that.

Who are the people that you are sort of sort of naturally almost unconsciously engaged with? engaged with? engaged with? What are they like? Are they are set back? Are they all right? All right. All right. Are they open? Open. Open. Open. Why don't you just be that way? Just try it for a little while. You're not faking anything. You are being a version of yourself. That's not fake. That's you being you. being you. being you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let's explore that. Very good. Yeah, you're right.

I think sometimes you think, well, I'm copying this person. There's a difference for me because when I was young, I lacked confidence. I did exactly what you thought. I thought, well, who do I admire? admire? admire? Who would I want leading me? And what I would call that guys that's listening so you don't feel fake. It's more like modeling somebody than copying them. It's my version of the things I've noticed in them that I found pleasing or attractive or brought me confidence, effective. effective. effective. There you go.

Right. Thank you. Thank you for saying that. You know, when I started this podcast, it seemed like I had to figure everything out on my own. You know, scripts set up, filming schedule, logos, posting, marketing. It was completely overwhelming. And probably a lot of you feel that way in your business as well. And every day it seemed like I had to make a new decision that needed an answer. And a lot of them were just questions I didn't have answers for. So that's where Shopify came in.

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Your body does so much for you. Let's do something for that. That's d o s e d a i l y.co/mylet for 35% off your first month subscription. Okay, I'm going to give you a guy I need to know about this because you talk about our minds. There's this dude. I'm a huge Boston sports fan sports fan sports fan and uh you're already smiling and I I I liked you Nate until I found out you helped this guy and now you're I'm on the fence until we're done here today.

But so I'm a Pats fan and um I think most of you know if you're not football fans there's this guy uh named Eli Manning who basically ruined my life twice and um and I mean it like ruined my life. And so Eli Manning's quarterback for the New York Giants. He's not in the Hall of Fame yet, but he should be. I'll even say that on his behalf. He's won a couple Super Bowls. He's basically really one of two people who ever beat Tom Brady in a Super Bowl, and he actually did it both times he played him.

So, think about that, you guys. He's also got an older brother who was a great player. He was like almost the second one in the family. So, some of you feel that way. Oh, my sister's the rock star. My brother's the one that everybody looks up to. Eli had that with his own dad and his own brother. He was like third wheel. and he's won two Super Bowls and beat the GOAT twice. Tell us about your work with Eli. And I someone told me you got a story at least I need to hear about Super Bowl 46, which I probably don't want to hear and I'm probably going to edit out, but I want you to tell it anyway.

Tell it anyway. Okay. Um, Okay. Um, Okay. Um, I first met Eli in the spring of 2007. Um, a former West Point grad, West Point assistant coach who was on the Giants coaching staff suggested to head coach Tom Coughlin, you know, I think uh this guy Nate Censor at West Point, you know, might be a good influence on Eli. Um, and you know, Tom Coughlin grilled me for a couple of hours in his office. Uh and he said, "Okay, we'll give this a shot." Eli and I connected and we just began a relationship, a mentor mentee relationship.

And the thing that immediately impressed me about Eli was the simple trait of curiosity, what's out there that might help me. Okay? and and and he's been very very um clear about this when he's been asked about it in you know different you [clears throat] know different interviewing sessions and you know different um you know different media outlets he's been very clear everybody talked about oh you got to be mentally tough you tough you got to be mentally tough he had been told that playing college ball at miss he'd been told that you know in his three years with the ions.

I didn't meet with him until that gap between his third and fourth Giants season. He, you know, everybody had talked about how important this is. You got to have a great attitude. You got to be mentally tough. Da da da da da. But nobody had ever broken it down into steps, okay? And Eli was, you know, he was a very attentive pupil, you know, and he and I met regularly throughout the spring and the summer of 2007. We continued our relationship basically breaking down every game he played from a psych from a mental point and mental toughness point of view, you know.

And so now February of 2008 comes around and around and around and Eli puts on an incredible show in the fourth quarter and ends up beating the heavily favored and at that point undefeated Patriots um for for Super Bowl 42. Um it was one of the coolest moments of my life. life. life. One of the worst of mine. Yeah. Okay. Now, four years later, the Patriots and the Giants again face each other in the Super Bowl. Okay? And once again, the Patriots are favored. And once again, once again, once again, Eli has a remarkable fourth quarter.

Okay? Okay? Okay? The Giants were down by two points with 4 and 1/2 minutes on the clock. The ball's on their own 10 yardd line. line. line. They've got enough time to dink the ball down the field, kick a field goal, go up by one, but that means they're going to give the ball back to Brady and the Patriots with like two minutes on the clock and all they got to do is dink the ball down the field and they'll kick a field goal and win.

So the Giants got to score a touchdown if they are going to win. win. win. And so Eli takes a snap in the shotgun, looks right, looks over the middle, sees Mario Manningham deep, right about at midfield, and he launches this perfect arc of a ball. There are two Patriot defenders draped all over Manningham. But this ball is so beautifully placed that it just falls right into Manningham's hand and he steps out of bounds right right next. He almost knocks Bill Bich over, you know, when he steps out of bounds after making that catch.

That play set up the Giants go ahead touchdown. For all intents and purposes, game over. Two days later, Eli is doing his mandatory uh I think it's ESPN radio interview and he's asked about that play and he's asked specifically, do you ever consider the ramifications of failure at a time like that? And this is basically asked being an NFL quarterback, do you think about screwing up in an important moment? That's a very Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, consider that question. Do you consider the ramifications of failure at moments like that?

And I think Eli wanted to say, "Are you out of your freaking mind, dude?" He basically being the gentleman that he is, said, "No, that's exactly what you don't do." In moments like that, you think about all the times you have succeeded with a fourth quarter comeback. You recall the games against this team and this team where you and this team where you were successful were successful were successful in those particular kinds of moments. You forget about the other ones. He literally said you misremember those misses those misses those misses and you hang on to the memories of your successes.

That's the feeling. So the ability to think about think about think about I've done some good stuff. This could be really cool. That's the feeling that you want to have when you are in your own equivalent of the fourth quarter of a Super Bowl rather than uh oh this is really big. I better not mess this up. Okay. And if any of your listeners were watching the figure skating events at this year's Winter Olympiad, you saw a couple people who were clearly, "Uh-oh, this is the Olympics.

I can't afford to screw up. Failure would be really bad." And you also saw a couple people who were, were, were, "I'm just here to see how well I can skate. I'm just here to be artistic. I don't need a gold medal. I just want to be in the moment and be joyous." But was it the people that won the medals? Oh my gosh, brother. That's one of the best stories ever on the show because there's a lot to pick apart there. You guys, you know, when someone makes a point, I like to pick apart things that did you hear what he said?

He said the feeling. Remember earlier in the podcast where I said that it's a chemistry and a neurology. There's a feeling. There's a when you have the right thoughts, you're creating a neurology, a chemistry in your body that is that of success. When you're feeding yourself the failure thoughts, you're feeding yourself the neurobiochemistry of someone who's not going to perform under pressure. That's why these thoughts matter. Well, we're recording this this weekend. I'm a I'm a golf guy. Down the street from where I live was the players championship golf tournament.

golf tournament. golf tournament. And uh there's this guy Cameron Young. He's down by uh a shot going to the 17th hole. He birdies 17. Now he's tied on the 18th hole. his competitor, who's a great player, hits a ball a little bit to the right. He's going to be blocked out. He's going to have to lay up. This guy gets up and you know what he says he was thinking? He says out loud, there's the biggest shot of his life. He says, "I'm going to hit the greatest drive of my life." And he visualized other great drives he had hit prior.

There's a water to the left. There's out there's a hazard to the right. He striped a 375 yard drive. longest drive of the entire tournament on the most important hole right down the middle and he wins the golf tournament and it's because of the imagery just what you taught Eli to do that he fed himself. That is one of the best stories I I've ever heard and I'm frustrated that you did that to beat my Patriots and I'm going to leave it in the podcast. So, let me ask you a couple questions.

We only have a certain amount of time and I want to give everybody tools as well. How do you feel about cognitive rehearsal and visualization? And if you like it, how does someone get better at it? Um, well, the second question is very simple. You get better at it as you practice. Okay. practice. Okay. practice. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Um, visualization Um, visualization Um, visualization is a term that kind of implies the visual aspect of seeing something around you or seeing yourself in something. Um I use the term envisioning slight linguistic variation because in order to basically fool your nervous system into believing that you are throwing that touchdown or making that presentation while you are just sitting thinking about it.

In order to get the nervous system system system really really dialed in, you want to include what might it sound like? What might the air be like? What am I feeling? feeling? feeling? Okay, so you know, if I'm working with a quarterback and I want him to envision execution of a play, you know, maybe stand up and have a ball in your hand. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. and I'm seeing the offensive line and defensive line in front of me as I'm coming up under center or as I'm setting my feet in the shotgun and I'm hearing a sort of buzz in in you know in in in the environment and then I'm hearing myself call the audles and I may be seeing a linebacker or a beler shifting in position and then I'm going to feel my body taking that ball and delivering the quick pass or I'm going to sense.

Okay, he's running that out. There's this curl over the middle. Okay. Oh, here's my safety valve. My running back that way. So, I want him to sort of feel the whole process. Okay. Be what you're going to see, hear what you're going to hear, feel what you're going to feel, and that way you kind of attune your nervous system to what you might experience. experience. experience. Wow. The same way we The same way our nervous system gets fooled when we have a nightmare a nightmare a nightmare and we wake up with our throat tight and sweat and gripping the the the blankets carefully.

Well, we're not in any danger, but our nervous system thinks we were. What we can do is utilize that fact that our nervous system doesn't always distinguish reality from a very vividly imagined uh mental representation. We can use that to our advantage. advantage. advantage. So good. I I just I'm I'm teach I encourage people to wow wow wow find all kinds of ways to do that. I I was just thinking two things. one what you've said I think is that the more senses you contribute to what is visualization sight feeling etc um hearing more senses makes it a deeper experience than just seeing and then the second thing is all these big words I've tried to make up where neurobiochemistry is basically neurology all this stuff I've said you use the word nervous system which is actually the correct description and so thank you for that um last question because I promised you you get to go to your physical therapy for your knee.

First, this has been tremendous, right? Like, how cool to be able to have you on and and to learn the things that you teach. I'm going to say two things to you and then I'll just let you finish and kind of rift on it as it contributes to confidence or you think it doesn't. Okay. So, the first one is keeping the promises you make to yourself as a foundation for self-confidence. your thoughts about that that as a building block and you can just throw this together.

And then preparation as it results as it as it uh um connects to self-confidence or confidence in general. How important is keeping promises and how important is preparation if at all? How important are promises? My answer to that question is I think we're we're we're we're constantly keeping a bunch of promises, but they're not might not be necessarily the ones that are doing us the best good. Okay? Uh I encourage people to think about what they want as if they've already got it. Okay? Okay. My explosion out of stance is dynamic and effective.

and effective. and effective. That's a statement. Now, maybe the individual at the moment isn't all that dynamic and effective coming out of his stance, but I want him to think that he is. I want him basically to make that promise to himself and then work like hell to fulfill it. Okay. He could also make a statement to himself, yeah, I'm kind of slow off the line line line or I fade in the last 200 meters of my 800 meter race. Or I lose my cool when I am in a negotiation or when I'm in a courtroom with a particular judge.

Those statements that you make, they're kind of like definitions of reality. They're almost like promises that you make. Okay, how about talking to yourself about what you want? How do you want to be in that core room? How do you want to be in that final 200 m? How do you want to be coming out of your stands? Whatever the heck it is. So, I urge people to come to and I work with them and coach them on particular statements about a skill that they want to improve in, a quality or characteristic that they want to bring to their work, and indeed an outcome.

M okay okay okay very good very good very good I sell $3 million of medical equipment a year you know not I want to I hope to no I do this that's a promise I'm making to myself myself myself okay okay okay that's a bar that I'm establishing and I'm going to work toward that or I'm going to come up short and then I got to look at myself and say h do I really want this or am Am I just pretending? And we all got to be honest with ourselves about that stuff.

Very good. What about preparation as a final thought? Because for me, at least in my own life, like the podcast today, I was pretty confident this was going to go well. One, I had a world-class guest and two, me and my team prepared for possible outcomes, possible questions, possible tangents we would go on. digging deeper. I came in here feeling pretty confident, frankly, very confident this was going to go, I think it's exceeded my expectations. But had I not prepared at all and walked in here five minutes before, like many interviews that I've been interviewed on where I'm like, "This person hasn't prepared at all." Frustratingly, I'm sure you too.

So, my preparation gave me confidence. Is that is that is that a criteria or is that something unique to me? No, that's not unique to you that I compliment you on it for doing for being so certainly um um um I see human performance largely as the result of two complimentary forms of discipline. The discipline to prepare just as you described it. Let's look at what we want to accomplish. Let's anticipate some difficulties that we might encounter. Let's be ready for this. Let's be ready for that.

So you are somewhat analytical. You are somewhat judgmental of what you want. You might even be a little self-critical and I got to make sure I don't do this and I got to make sure I do that. Okay, that is a wonderful psychological process that underlies preparation. You know, it's, you know, we go to the gym. I got to be very careful about my form. I got to be disciplined about my progression. Okay, I got to suck up the effort. Okay, I got to be analytical and a little judgment judgmental of what I'm doing.

That's the psychology of preparation. That that's good to get you to the starting line. Okay? Okay? Okay? Once you get to the starting line, there's another form of discipline. Okay? Okay? Okay? And that is the discipline to absolutely totally trust totally trust totally trust the preparation that you have under undertaken up to that point. I have to discipline myself to do the work and then I have to discipline myself to trust the work that I've done as opposed to be being too analytical, overthinking myself in the moment of performance.

Okay, I need to make a switch from being analytical and judgmental and critical to being engaged, open, supportive of myself, curious. Okay. It's a It's a It's a whole different vibe. different vibe. different vibe. Wow. Wow. Wow. Rapping versus performing. I use the term workhorse versus racehorse. racehorse. racehorse. And if any of your listeners are curious about digging into this, you know, get a hold of me. We'll talk. Well, also get the book. I got to ask you one last thing. Sorry. Real quick. Yeah. No, we're fine.

is what you said there. That's a wow for me. Uh preparation and performance are different things. Do you think like in the moment of performance, so I'm giving the board meeting, I'm giving the speech, I'm trying to close the sale, I've got four and a half minutes to make the drive down the field to beat the Patriots, whatever the thing is. Is there a nuance between okay I've completely prepared and I want to score this touchdown or I want to hit this drive down the middle but almost to some extent extent extent you use the word trusting my preparation do I almost separate from the outcome in the moment of performance and just execute in other words because the obsession with the outcome can create unnecessary pressure and doubt do you believe in separating from the outcome when you're trying to perform I think there is an important degree of detachment from the out.

Really important. If a certain percentage of your mental energy is attached to that outcome, that means there is correspondingly less mental energy to be engaged in what you're actually doing. Wow. You know, and there is no mathematical formula for that. M that. M that. M there's just the willingness to entertain the concept, deal with the concept, find concept, find concept, find find your own personal way. And this is why I never run out of clients because everybody is every everybody is pursuing this. Find that level of detachment that works for you.

I mean, you cannot be so detached that you don't prepare. You cannot be so detached that, you know, the golfer better make sure that his gloves on, right? Okay. He better make sure that he's read the course, that he knows the yardages. He better take the time to look at the wind and study the lie. Okay. But once he's done that, okay, hit the damn ball. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. hit the damn ball without thinking, "Okay, it's um who to the pen. It's on this." Okay, you've done that.

Stop. Look, swing. swing. swing. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Trust. Okay. Everybody's got to figure out their own way to do that. Well, that was so good. This what I do show, I bring you people you're probably not going to hear everywhere. And uh frankly, some of them are for me, and today was for me. Uh Dr. Nate Zinder, you are awesome, brother. Thank you, sir. You're awesome. The book is The Confident Mind. That's where you're best to reach out to him. Is there anywhere else you want them to find you or contact you or is getting the book the best place to start?

Well, that that's a really good place to start. Um, you know,.com. Okay. Okay. Hundreds of people over the last four years have been, you know, finding their way to me. um violin players in Austria, uh cricket players in Australia, neurosurgeons all over the country. I'm talking to a retinal surgeon and a division one golfer in a little while. Um Um Um an emergency medical technician whose recreational sport is axe throwing. Yeah, I haven't I'm not making this up. I have not worked with an axe thrower.

Well, you're I hope your server's strong cuz after this show you're going to get hit up, brother. So, you also get a bunch of book sales. Go rehab your knee. Everybody else, share this episode with anybody that you want to help build more confidence. God bless you, everybody. Max out.