World No.1 Divorce Lawyer: This Is A Sign You’ll Divorce In 10 Years!

If you had to give one relationship If you had to give one relationship ritual to stay in love, what would that ritual to stay in love, what would that ritual to stay in love, what would that be? Once a week, tell your [music] be? Once a week, tell your [music] be? Once a week, tell your [music] partner three things that you love about partner three things that you love about partner three things that you love about them and three things they could have them and three things they could have them and three things they could have done better. done better. done better. >> But some people thinking, well, and if I >> But some people thinking, well, and if I >> But some people thinking, well, and if I told Dave that we're going to start told Dave that we're going to start told Dave that we're going to start writing these notes to each other, he's writing these notes to each other, he's writing these notes to each other, he's going to cringe [music] and not going to going to cringe [music] and not going to going to cringe [music] and not going to do it. [ __ ] Honestly, Dave can't do it. [ __ ] Honestly, Dave can't do it. [ __ ] Honestly, Dave can't name three things he likes about you. name three things he likes about you. name three things he likes about you. Really, Dave? Is that a big ask? I Really, Dave? Is that a big ask? I Really, Dave? Is that a big ask? I absolutely call bull on that. The bigger absolutely call bull on that. The bigger absolutely call bull on that. The bigger question is what's uncomfortable about question is what's uncomfortable about question is what's uncomfortable about that for you? And look, I'm not a that for you? And look, I'm not a that for you? And look, I'm not a therapist. I'm a divorce lawyer. I therapist. I'm a divorce lawyer. I therapist. I'm a divorce lawyer. I represent some of the most high represent some of the most high represent some of the most high achieving minds, athletes, achieving minds, athletes, achieving minds, athletes, entrepreneurs, and they're just as bad entrepreneurs, and they're just as bad entrepreneurs, and they're just as bad at this as anybody because there's a at this as anybody because there's a at this as anybody because there's a part of us that's afraid to poke at what part of us that's afraid to poke at what part of us that's afraid to poke at what do you love about me? What am I getting do you love about me? What am I getting do you love about me? What am I getting wrong? And it's not just romantic wrong? And it's not just romantic wrong? And it's not just romantic relationships. Like, relationships. Like, relationships. Like, my mom died 10 years ago after a long my mom died 10 years ago after a long my mom died 10 years ago after a long battle with cancer. battle with cancer. battle with cancer. There was a lot between us that needed There was a lot between us that needed There was a lot between us that needed to be said and [music] wasn't said. And there's a part of me that wishes she And there's a part of me that wishes she was here so that I could have apologized was here so that I could have apologized was here so that I could have apologized [music] for some things I got wrong. But [music] for some things I got wrong. But [music] for some things I got wrong. But we don't do that because people just we don't do that because people just we don't do that because people just don't want temporary discomfort. [music] don't want temporary discomfort. [music] don't want temporary discomfort. [music] And so I think there's something deeply And so I think there's something deeply And so I think there's something deeply courageous about love, about commitment, courageous about love, about commitment, courageous about love, about commitment, about saying I'm going to give them the about saying I'm going to give them the about saying I'm going to give them the opportunity to hurt me. Like it's scary, opportunity to hurt me. Like it's scary, opportunity to hurt me. Like it's scary, [music] but I'm brave. You know, your [music] but I'm brave. You know, your [music] but I'm brave. You know, your marriage will end. It ends in death or marriage will end. It ends in death or marriage will end. It ends in death or divorce. And for two people at the end divorce. And for two people at the end divorce. And for two people at the end of their relationship to say, "This of their relationship to say, "This of their relationship to say, "This person helped me become the most person helped me become the most person helped me become the most authentic version of myself." That's the authentic version of myself." That's the authentic version of myself." That's the greatest gift you could give to another greatest gift you could give to another greatest gift you could give to another human being. And as you can see from human being. And as you can see from human being. And as you can see from this photo, I just proposed to my this photo, I just proposed to my this photo, I just proposed to my fiance. I'd like some advice on how not fiance. I'd like some advice on how not fiance. I'd like some advice on how not to mess this up. Like if my fiance ends to mess this up. Like if my fiance ends to mess this up. Like if my fiance ends up walking into your practice, what is up walking into your practice, what is up walking into your practice, what is the reason she's likely to end up there? the reason she's likely to end up there? the reason she's likely to end up there? The number one reason that I'm going to The number one reason that I'm going to The number one reason that I'm going to have a woman sitting across from me, have a woman sitting across from me, have a woman sitting across from me, divorcing someone who's a great divorcing someone who's a great divorcing someone who's a great provider, great protector is provider, great protector is provider, great protector is >> that is not obvious to everybody >> that is not obvious to everybody >> that is not obvious to everybody >> and it'll keep me in business for the >> and it'll keep me in business for the >> and it'll keep me in business for the rest of my life. >> Guys, I've got a quick favor to ask you. >> Guys, I've got a quick favor to ask you. We're approaching a significant We're approaching a significant We're approaching a significant subscriber milestone on this show and subscriber milestone on this show and subscriber milestone on this show and roughly 69% of you that listen and love roughly 69% of you that listen and love roughly 69% of you that listen and love this show haven't yet subscribed for this show haven't yet subscribed for this show haven't yet subscribed for whatever reason. If there was ever a whatever reason. If there was ever a whatever reason. If there was ever a time for you to do us a favor, if we've time for you to do us a favor, if we've time for you to do us a favor, if we've ever done anything for you, given you ever done anything for you, given you ever done anything for you, given you value in any way, it is simply hitting value in any way, it is simply hitting value in any way, it is simply hitting that subscribe button. And it means so that subscribe button. And it means so that subscribe button. And it means so much to myself, but also to my team, much to myself, but also to my team, much to myself, but also to my team, because when we hit these milestones, we because when we hit these milestones, we because when we hit these milestones, we go away as a team and celebrate. And go away as a team and celebrate. And go away as a team and celebrate. And it's the thing, the simple, free, easy it's the thing, the simple, free, easy it's the thing, the simple, free, easy thing you can do to help make this show thing you can do to help make this show thing you can do to help make this show a little bit better every single week. a little bit better every single week. a little bit better every single week. So, that's a favor I would ask you. And So, that's a favor I would ask you. And So, that's a favor I would ask you. And um if you do hit the subscribe button, I um if you do hit the subscribe button, I um if you do hit the subscribe button, I won't let you down and we'll continue to won't let you down and we'll continue to won't let you down and we'll continue to find small ways to make this whole find small ways to make this whole find small ways to make this whole production better. Thank you so much for production better. Thank you so much for production better. Thank you so much for being part of this journey. Means the being part of this journey. Means the being part of this journey. Means the world. And uh yeah, let's do this. world. And uh yeah, let's do this. world. And uh yeah, let's do this. [music] [music] [music] [singing] [singing] [singing] James, James, James, as you can see from this photo, I just as you can see from this photo, I just as you can see from this photo, I just proposed to my fiance and gladly she proposed to my fiance and gladly she proposed to my fiance and gladly she said yes. So, I've brought you here in said yes. So, I've brought you here in said yes. So, I've brought you here in part because I'd like some advice on how part because I'd like some advice on how part because I'd like some advice on how not to mess this up because I know from not to mess this up because I know from not to mess this up because I know from speaking to you previously about 50% of speaking to you previously about 50% of speaking to you previously about 50% of people that get down on their knee end people that get down on their knee end people that get down on their knee end up messing it up in some way. Before we up messing it up in some way. Before we up messing it up in some way. Before we get into this though, and before you get into this though, and before you get into this though, and before you help me figure out how to stay in love help me figure out how to stay in love help me figure out how to stay in love and not mess it up. and not mess it up. and not mess it up. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Where do you find us at as it relates to >> Where do you find us at as it relates to >> Where do you find us at as it relates to love as a society? If you were to zoom love as a society? If you were to zoom love as a society? If you were to zoom out and diagnose society's relationship out and diagnose society's relationship out and diagnose society's relationship with the subject of love and their um with the subject of love and their um with the subject of love and their um ability to keep it, find it, and ability to keep it, find it, and ability to keep it, find it, and understand it, where are we? understand it, where are we? understand it, where are we? >> I think we we're in this really >> I think we we're in this really >> I think we we're in this really uncomfortable moment as a culture. I uncomfortable moment as a culture. I uncomfortable moment as a culture. I think we we want more than anything to think we we want more than anything to think we we want more than anything to feel real connection. I think we're sick feel real connection. I think we're sick feel real connection. I think we're sick of just looking at screens. I think we of just looking at screens. I think we of just looking at screens. I think we came out of the pandemic with a feeling came out of the pandemic with a feeling came out of the pandemic with a feeling of, okay, I want to be in the world with of, okay, I want to be in the world with of, okay, I want to be in the world with other people and feel the warmth of real other people and feel the warmth of real other people and feel the warmth of real people. people. people. And yet, we have an increasingly And yet, we have an increasingly And yet, we have an increasingly lower number of useful tools in finding lower number of useful tools in finding lower number of useful tools in finding connection and staying connected, which connection and staying connected, which connection and staying connected, which are two totally different skills. And are two totally different skills. And are two totally different skills. And yet we're yearning for it more than yet we're yearning for it more than yet we're yearning for it more than ever. So we're more hungry than we've ever. So we're more hungry than we've ever. So we're more hungry than we've ever been and we have no idea how to ever been and we have no idea how to ever been and we have no idea how to cook cook cook >> in your head because you've seen so many >> in your head because you've seen so many >> in your head because you've seen so many people go through divorce and people go through divorce and people go through divorce and relationships fail. relationships fail. relationships fail. >> There must be a sort of checklist of >> There must be a sort of checklist of >> There must be a sort of checklist of things that I'm likely to mess up. things that I'm likely to mess up. things that I'm likely to mess up. >> Yeah. I mean, well, you know, first of >> Yeah. I mean, well, you know, first of >> Yeah. I mean, well, you know, first of all, when I when I knew you, you know, all, when I when I knew you, you know, all, when I when I knew you, you know, heard you got engaged, heard you got engaged, heard you got engaged, >> I was thrilled because I'm always >> I was thrilled because I'm always >> I was thrilled because I'm always cheering for people. I really am. I'm cheering for people. I really am. I'm cheering for people. I really am. I'm always cheering for love. And so I think always cheering for love. And so I think always cheering for love. And so I think in our prior conversations, you're in our prior conversations, you're in our prior conversations, you're obviously someone who loves very deeply obviously someone who loves very deeply obviously someone who loves very deeply and and the fact that you found this and and the fact that you found this and and the fact that you found this person, you know, [clears throat] to me person, you know, [clears throat] to me person, you know, [clears throat] to me is the most lovely thing. You know, I I is the most lovely thing. You know, I I is the most lovely thing. You know, I I think at its core, this is your favorite think at its core, this is your favorite think at its core, this is your favorite person. I just can't think of anything person. I just can't think of anything person. I just can't think of anything more lovely than that. Like the idea more lovely than that. Like the idea more lovely than that. Like the idea that you would look at a person and go, that you would look at a person and go, that you would look at a person and go, "You're my favorite person." And and "You're my favorite person." And and "You're my favorite person." And and that person would look at you and say, that person would look at you and say, that person would look at you and say, "You're my favorite person." And that "You're my favorite person." And that "You're my favorite person." And that you would know that it's true. like when you would know that it's true. like when you would know that it's true. like when they say it that it's true. Like that they say it that it's true. Like that they say it that it's true. Like that that feels to me like something worth that feels to me like something worth that feels to me like something worth pursuing. That feels like something that pursuing. That feels like something that pursuing. That feels like something that if I tried to get it and I failed, I'd if I tried to get it and I failed, I'd if I tried to get it and I failed, I'd try again because if you could find it, try again because if you could find it, try again because if you could find it, it's just about the greatest thing in it's just about the greatest thing in it's just about the greatest thing in the world. Like the the thought to me the world. Like the the thought to me the world. Like the the thought to me that, you know, I I I won't get to give that, you know, I I I won't get to give that, you know, I I I won't get to give a toast at your wedding, but I will say a toast at your wedding, but I will say a toast at your wedding, but I will say that if I was going to give the toast, that if I was going to give the toast, that if I was going to give the toast, it would be that there are two wishes I it would be that there are two wishes I it would be that there are two wishes I have for you. You know, your marriage have for you. You know, your marriage have for you. You know, your marriage will end. I mean, I've said it to you will end. I mean, I've said it to you will end. I mean, I've said it to you before in one of our first before in one of our first before in one of our first conversations. Every marriage ends. It conversations. Every marriage ends. It conversations. Every marriage ends. It ends in death or divorce. I hope yours ends in death or divorce. I hope yours ends in death or divorce. I hope yours ends in death. And I hope when it ends ends in death. And I hope when it ends ends in death. And I hope when it ends in death that let's send you off first in death that let's send you off first in death that let's send you off first that when you're dying that she will say that when you're dying that she will say that when you're dying that she will say hopefully to you or to those around, hopefully to you or to those around, hopefully to you or to those around, you helped me become the most authentic you helped me become the most authentic you helped me become the most authentic version of myself and you're still my version of myself and you're still my version of myself and you're still my favorite person. favorite person. favorite person. Because I can't think of a greater Because I can't think of a greater Because I can't think of a greater blessing than that. like for two people blessing than that. like for two people blessing than that. like for two people at the end of their life, at the end of at the end of their life, at the end of at the end of their life, at the end of their relationship to say, "This person their relationship to say, "This person their relationship to say, "This person helped me become the most authentic helped me become the most authentic helped me become the most authentic version of myself and they're still my version of myself and they're still my version of myself and they're still my favorite person." That's the greatest favorite person." That's the greatest favorite person." That's the greatest gift you could give to another human gift you could give to another human gift you could give to another human being, I think. And I like the idea that being, I think. And I like the idea that being, I think. And I like the idea that even in the face of knowing that this is even in the face of knowing that this is even in the face of knowing that this is risky, this is something that may not risky, this is something that may not risky, this is something that may not work, this is something that work, this is something that work, this is something that statistically the odds are against, but statistically the odds are against, but statistically the odds are against, but I'm going to give it a shot because, you I'm going to give it a shot because, you I'm going to give it a shot because, you know, there's something it adds to my know, there's something it adds to my know, there's something it adds to my life and there's something I add to her life and there's something I add to her life and there's something I add to her life and, you know, we're going to we're life and, you know, we're going to we're life and, you know, we're going to we're going to give it a shot. I don't know. I going to give it a shot. I don't know. I going to give it a shot. I don't know. I found that very beautiful. As a divorce found that very beautiful. As a divorce found that very beautiful. As a divorce lawyer who is also a very big fan of lawyer who is also a very big fan of lawyer who is also a very big fan of love, do you ever find yourself trying love, do you ever find yourself trying love, do you ever find yourself trying to get someone not to get a divorce, has to get someone not to get a divorce, has to get someone not to get a divorce, has there ever been an instance where you there ever been an instance where you there ever been an instance where you you looked at the situation and thought, you looked at the situation and thought, you looked at the situation and thought, you know what, they should just get back you know what, they should just get back you know what, they should just get back together? Yeah. I what I'll say is my together? Yeah. I what I'll say is my together? Yeah. I what I'll say is my first thought is often, first thought is often, first thought is often, is this person accurately perceiving the is this person accurately perceiving the is this person accurately perceiving the situation that they're in? So people situation that they're in? So people situation that they're in? So people will come in and they'll say, you know, will come in and they'll say, you know, will come in and they'll say, you know, it really people come to me in very it really people come to me in very it really people come to me in very different situations. So sometimes different situations. So sometimes different situations. So sometimes people will come to me and they're people will come to me and they're people will come to me and they're they're they've been served with divorce they're they've been served with divorce they're they've been served with divorce papers like the marriage is over and now papers like the marriage is over and now papers like the marriage is over and now it's about okay we have to react it's about okay we have to react it's about okay we have to react defensively. So you know when people defensively. So you know when people defensively. So you know when people come to my office the situation is often come to my office the situation is often come to my office the situation is often so dire and so broken that they're so dire and so broken that they're so dire and so broken that they're coming in to hire me for that specific coming in to hire me for that specific coming in to hire me for that specific purpose. But I will say without question purpose. But I will say without question purpose. But I will say without question that if I get any sense that this person that if I get any sense that this person that if I get any sense that this person would either a benefit from individual would either a benefit from individual would either a benefit from individual therapy that might help them view the therapy that might help them view the therapy that might help them view the relationship differently and come to the relationship differently and come to the relationship differently and come to the relationship differently. I will not relationship differently. I will not relationship differently. I will not hesitate to refer them. And then there hesitate to refer them. And then there hesitate to refer them. And then there are people that and it's more common are people that and it's more common are people that and it's more common than you'd think that something awful than you'd think that something awful than you'd think that something awful has happened in the relationship. They has happened in the relationship. They has happened in the relationship. They had an affair and got caught. they had an affair and got caught. they had an affair and got caught. they caught their spouse having an affair. Uh caught their spouse having an affair. Uh caught their spouse having an affair. Uh they've lost their job and it created they've lost their job and it created they've lost their job and it created tremendous discord in their tremendous discord in their tremendous discord in their relationship. And that often will feel relationship. And that often will feel relationship. And that often will feel to me like something that perhaps would to me like something that perhaps would to me like something that perhaps would benefit from the intervention of mental benefit from the intervention of mental benefit from the intervention of mental health professionals or everyone just health professionals or everyone just health professionals or everyone just taking a breath and taking a minute, taking a breath and taking a minute, taking a breath and taking a minute, especially when there's kids involved, especially when there's kids involved, especially when there's kids involved, but even when there aren't. but even when there aren't. but even when there aren't. >> Are your clients predominantly men or >> Are your clients predominantly men or >> Are your clients predominantly men or women? women? women? >> It's pretty much an even split really. >> It's pretty much an even split really. >> It's pretty much an even split really. >> Yeah. I represent a lot of either very >> Yeah. I represent a lot of either very >> Yeah. I represent a lot of either very high achieving high- netw worth high achieving high- netw worth high achieving high- netw worth individuals or people married to them. individuals or people married to them. individuals or people married to them. >> And are the reasons that they come to >> And are the reasons that they come to >> And are the reasons that they come to you, those two different groups, you, those two different groups, you, those two different groups, >> different? >> different? >> different? >> Like the reason why they want a >> Like the reason why they want a >> Like the reason why they want a separation, is it fundamentally separation, is it fundamentally separation, is it fundamentally different? different? different? >> So the specific example of cheating, I >> So the specific example of cheating, I >> So the specific example of cheating, I would say men get caught cheating more would say men get caught cheating more would say men get caught cheating more often than women. often than women. often than women. >> Does that mean they cheat more? >> Does that mean they cheat more? >> Does that mean they cheat more? >> No, it means they get caught cheating >> No, it means they get caught cheating >> No, it means they get caught cheating more. I I don't think that anyone could more. I I don't think that anyone could more. I I don't think that anyone could really truly accurately say, you know, I really truly accurately say, you know, I really truly accurately say, you know, I know people love statistics and I know know people love statistics and I know know people love statistics and I know that that, you know, guests have a that that, you know, guests have a that that, you know, guests have a tendency to come out and say, well, 72% tendency to come out and say, well, 72% tendency to come out and say, well, 72% of people who are everything I'm saying of people who are everything I'm saying of people who are everything I'm saying is based on what I've observed in 25 is based on what I've observed in 25 is based on what I've observed in 25 years of facilitating the demise of years of facilitating the demise of years of facilitating the demise of marriages. Men and women both cheat. Men marriages. Men and women both cheat. Men marriages. Men and women both cheat. Men cheat in just more scattershot stupid cheat in just more scattershot stupid cheat in just more scattershot stupid ways than women do. When women cheat, in ways than women do. When women cheat, in ways than women do. When women cheat, in my experience professionally, it's my experience professionally, it's my experience professionally, it's usually an indication of like the it's usually an indication of like the it's usually an indication of like the it's the absolute end of this relationship. the absolute end of this relationship. the absolute end of this relationship. The relationship is over and this is The relationship is over and this is The relationship is over and this is either a soft place to land or it's sort either a soft place to land or it's sort either a soft place to land or it's sort of a final opportunity for this person of a final opportunity for this person of a final opportunity for this person to solidify, this woman to solidify in to solidify, this woman to solidify in to solidify, this woman to solidify in her head that yeah, this thing is over. her head that yeah, this thing is over. her head that yeah, this thing is over. Whereas men, I I've really had hundreds Whereas men, I I've really had hundreds Whereas men, I I've really had hundreds at this point of men sit across from me at this point of men sit across from me at this point of men sit across from me who've been caught in an affair or sense who've been caught in an affair or sense who've been caught in an affair or sense that they're about to get caught in an that they're about to get caught in an that they're about to get caught in an affair and they say to me like, "Yeah, affair and they say to me like, "Yeah, affair and they say to me like, "Yeah, this had nothing to do with my wife. this had nothing to do with my wife. this had nothing to do with my wife. Like, I love my wife. It had nothing to Like, I love my wife. It had nothing to Like, I love my wife. It had nothing to do with that. It just I don't know. I do with that. It just I don't know. I do with that. It just I don't know. I just I don't know why I did what I did. just I don't know why I did what I did. just I don't know why I did what I did. I just did it." And I I know everyone I just did it." And I I know everyone I just did it." And I I know everyone kind of wants to because in civilized kind of wants to because in civilized kind of wants to because in civilized society it feels good to kind of go like society it feels good to kind of go like society it feels good to kind of go like I can't believe that. That's how could I can't believe that. That's how could I can't believe that. That's how could someone say that? But shut up. Like if someone say that? But shut up. Like if someone say that? But shut up. Like if you have you have potato chips in your you have you have potato chips in your you have you have potato chips in your cabinet, you know, you you you know that cabinet, you know, you you you know that cabinet, you know, you you you know that you're not supposed to eat them. You you're not supposed to eat them. You you're not supposed to eat them. You don't want to eat them. You want vibrant don't want to eat them. You want vibrant don't want to eat them. You want vibrant good health. You want to take care of good health. You want to take care of good health. You want to take care of your but they're there. They're there. your but they're there. They're there. your but they're there. They're there. And you're human. And like I can control And you're human. And like I can control And you're human. And like I can control my food environment better than my my food environment better than my my food environment better than my brain. Like I have a lot of resolve when brain. Like I have a lot of resolve when brain. Like I have a lot of resolve when I wake up in the morning. But at about 7 I wake up in the morning. But at about 7 I wake up in the morning. But at about 7 8:00 at night when I'm a little bit 8:00 at night when I'm a little bit 8:00 at night when I'm a little bit tired and it's been a long day and I tired and it's been a long day and I tired and it's been a long day and I deserve something nice, if the potato deserve something nice, if the potato deserve something nice, if the potato chips are there, I'm eating the potato chips are there, I'm eating the potato chips are there, I'm eating the potato chips. Like, we're human. We're human. chips. Like, we're human. We're human. chips. Like, we're human. We're human. There are times where we're just feeling There are times where we're just feeling There are times where we're just feeling lonely or hungry or angry or tired or lonely or hungry or angry or tired or lonely or hungry or angry or tired or some combination of those factors. and some combination of those factors. and some combination of those factors. and this warm thing like the connection to this warm thing like the connection to this warm thing like the connection to another person, the the joy of another person, the the joy of another person, the the joy of flirtation, the excitement of of feeling flirtation, the excitement of of feeling flirtation, the excitement of of feeling the energy between yourself and whatever the energy between yourself and whatever the energy between yourself and whatever it is type of person that you're it is type of person that you're it is type of person that you're attracted to. I think it's very normal. attracted to. I think it's very normal. attracted to. I think it's very normal. And then the problem becomes that you're And then the problem becomes that you're And then the problem becomes that you're not thinking about the consequences of not thinking about the consequences of not thinking about the consequences of those things. If you were thinking about those things. If you were thinking about those things. If you were thinking about the consequences of those things, you'd the consequences of those things, you'd the consequences of those things, you'd make better choices. But we all know make better choices. But we all know make better choices. But we all know that discipline is trading what you want that discipline is trading what you want that discipline is trading what you want now for what you want most. And now for what you want most. And now for what you want most. And sometimes it's hard to remember what you sometimes it's hard to remember what you sometimes it's hard to remember what you want most and to keep it in your line of want most and to keep it in your line of want most and to keep it in your line of sight. sight. sight. >> So from your experience, you know, if my >> So from your experience, you know, if my >> So from your experience, you know, if my fiance someday ends up walking into your fiance someday ends up walking into your fiance someday ends up walking into your practice, what is the practice, what is the practice, what is the reason she's likely to end up there from reason she's likely to end up there from reason she's likely to end up there from her perspective asking you to help her her perspective asking you to help her her perspective asking you to help her get out of the relationship with me? get out of the relationship with me? get out of the relationship with me? the most obvious, if you're going to be the most obvious, if you're going to be the most obvious, if you're going to be like the most the average, the like the most the average, the like the most the average, the statistical average, it would be that statistical average, it would be that statistical average, it would be that you've stopped seeing her and stopped you've stopped seeing her and stopped you've stopped seeing her and stopped noticing her in in the list of things noticing her in in the list of things noticing her in in the list of things that are important to Steven, that she's that are important to Steven, that she's that are important to Steven, that she's somewhere in the middle to bottom of somewhere in the middle to bottom of somewhere in the middle to bottom of that list. Like for for a high achiever that list. Like for for a high achiever that list. Like for for a high achiever like you, for someone who's like you, for someone who's like you, for someone who's entrepreneurial in the manner that you entrepreneurial in the manner that you entrepreneurial in the manner that you are, for someone who, you know, lives are, for someone who, you know, lives are, for someone who, you know, lives the kind of lifestyle that you do where the kind of lifestyle that you do where the kind of lifestyle that you do where you're on this coast one day and this you're on this coast one day and this you're on this coast one day and this country another day and flying here on a country another day and flying here on a country another day and flying here on a moment's notice and getting invitations moment's notice and getting invitations moment's notice and getting invitations to interesting things and you have to to interesting things and you have to to interesting things and you have to triage because you couldn't possibly do triage because you couldn't possibly do triage because you couldn't possibly do all the things that you'd like to do. It all the things that you'd like to do. It all the things that you'd like to do. It usually would be that she just feels usually would be that she just feels usually would be that she just feels herself slipping in the rankings. And I herself slipping in the rankings. And I herself slipping in the rankings. And I think that that is often not a function think that that is often not a function think that that is often not a function of what you're like that lifestyle I of what you're like that lifestyle I of what you're like that lifestyle I just described. It's a function of where just described. It's a function of where just described. It's a function of where you take time to fit her into that. you take time to fit her into that. you take time to fit her into that. Because I genuinely have found Because I genuinely have found Because I genuinely have found tremendous number of examples of people tremendous number of examples of people tremendous number of examples of people who and this is in the relationship work who and this is in the relationship work who and this is in the relationship work who have that level of intensity in who have that level of intensity in who have that level of intensity in their life and that level of chaos in their life and that level of chaos in their life and that level of chaos in their schedule and it's unpredictable their schedule and it's unpredictable their schedule and it's unpredictable but they have that ability every morning but they have that ability every morning but they have that ability every morning or every afternoon or every once in a or every afternoon or every once in a or every afternoon or every once in a while but consistently to say hey I have while but consistently to say hey I have while but consistently to say hey I have a minute between recordings. I just a minute between recordings. I just a minute between recordings. I just wanted you to know I was thinking of wanted you to know I was thinking of wanted you to know I was thinking of you. Or hey, you know, I heard that song you. Or hey, you know, I heard that song you. Or hey, you know, I heard that song when I was in the car from here to here when I was in the car from here to here when I was in the car from here to here and it makes me think of you and I can't and it makes me think of you and I can't and it makes me think of you and I can't wait to see you next week. You know, wait to see you next week. You know, wait to see you next week. You know, something like that to me, like how hard something like that to me, like how hard something like that to me, like how hard is that? By the way, doesn't have to be is that? By the way, doesn't have to be is that? By the way, doesn't have to be like a global lifestyle. It could even like a global lifestyle. It could even like a global lifestyle. It could even be, hey, we got a couple of kids and two be, hey, we got a couple of kids and two be, hey, we got a couple of kids and two dogs and you know, my my mom is sick and dogs and you know, my my mom is sick and dogs and you know, my my mom is sick and I got to tend to her so I'm super busy. I got to tend to her so I'm super busy. I got to tend to her so I'm super busy. But how do you let your partner know, But how do you let your partner know, But how do you let your partner know, hey, you're still really important. hey, you're still really important. hey, you're still really important. we're still really connected to each we're still really connected to each we're still really connected to each other because that's the number one other because that's the number one other because that's the number one complaint. That's the number one reason, complaint. That's the number one reason, complaint. That's the number one reason, particularly with women, that I'm going particularly with women, that I'm going particularly with women, that I'm going to have a woman sitting across from me to have a woman sitting across from me to have a woman sitting across from me divorcing someone who's a great divorcing someone who's a great divorcing someone who's a great provider, great protector, great all of provider, great protector, great all of provider, great protector, great all of those things. those things. those things. >> That is not obvious to everybody. And >> That is not obvious to everybody. And >> That is not obvious to everybody. And I'll be honest, it's not it wasn't I'll be honest, it's not it wasn't I'll be honest, it's not it wasn't necessarily obvious to me. The way that necessarily obvious to me. The way that necessarily obvious to me. The way that I operate naturally, and this is just I operate naturally, and this is just I operate naturally, and this is just the way that I am. I've spoken to so the way that I am. I've spoken to so the way that I am. I've spoken to so many of my friends to understand how many of my friends to understand how many of my friends to understand how they operate and the way that their they operate and the way that their they operate and the way that their brain works is when I'm here. brain works is when I'm here. brain works is when I'm here. >> The only thing I'm thinking about is >> The only thing I'm thinking about is >> The only thing I'm thinking about is this this this >> and I almost I'm remarkable at >> and I almost I'm remarkable at >> and I almost I'm remarkable at forgetting everything else forgetting everything else forgetting everything else >> and and being completely here. >> and and being completely here. >> and and being completely here. >> Now that sounds like a good thing, >> Now that sounds like a good thing, >> Now that sounds like a good thing, >> but it also means that I can lose 14 >> but it also means that I can lose 14 >> but it also means that I can lose 14 hours and forget to to check in. I can hours and forget to to check in. I can hours and forget to to check in. I can forget, you know. forget, you know. forget, you know. >> Is it is it also true when you're with >> Is it is it also true when you're with >> Is it is it also true when you're with her? Yes. When we have scheduled the her? Yes. When we have scheduled the her? Yes. When we have scheduled the time. time. time. >> Good. >> Good. >> Good. >> So, you know, when we schedule the time >> So, you know, when we schedule the time >> So, you know, when we schedule the time to go and do something together, I'm I'm to go and do something together, I'm I'm to go and do something together, I'm I'm there. I'm not on my phone. I'm not there. I'm not on my phone. I'm not there. I'm not on my phone. I'm not doing anything else. doing anything else. doing anything else. >> Good. I think that's a tremendous >> Good. I think that's a tremendous >> Good. I think that's a tremendous priority. I'm hearing more and more from priority. I'm hearing more and more from priority. I'm hearing more and more from people the feeling of, yeah, we're people the feeling of, yeah, we're people the feeling of, yeah, we're together, but we're not together. We're together, but we're not together. We're together, but we're not together. We're sitting there and they're on their phone sitting there and they're on their phone sitting there and they're on their phone or they're doing other things. And I or they're doing other things. And I or they're doing other things. And I think that it's really really important think that it's really really important think that it's really really important that one of the really important aspects that one of the really important aspects that one of the really important aspects of relationship be that there is time of relationship be that there is time of relationship be that there is time where you give each other that level of where you give each other that level of where you give each other that level of focus. But again, you know, like it's focus. But again, you know, like it's focus. But again, you know, like it's just not something we are necessarily just not something we are necessarily just not something we are necessarily taught. We have maybe we have our taught. We have maybe we have our taught. We have maybe we have our parents as models, but very often parents as models, but very often parents as models, but very often they're they're not good models. they're they're not good models. they're they're not good models. >> What's interesting here as well is for >> What's interesting here as well is for >> What's interesting here as well is for some reason I've chosen someone who's some reason I've chosen someone who's some reason I've chosen someone who's like the opposite of me in terms of the like the opposite of me in terms of the like the opposite of me in terms of the way that I way that I way that I >> partly because she Yeah, probably. And >> partly because she Yeah, probably. And >> partly because she Yeah, probably. And when I've spoken to some of my friends when I've spoken to some of my friends when I've spoken to some of my friends who are quite like me, they've also who are quite like me, they've also who are quite like me, they've also chosen partners who are the opposite of chosen partners who are the opposite of chosen partners who are the opposite of them. them. them. >> Could you imagine? I know. >> Could you imagine? I know. >> Could you imagine? I know. >> Could you imagine two of you? Like >> Could you imagine two of you? Like >> Could you imagine two of you? Like imagine me with me, you know, you with imagine me with me, you know, you with imagine me with me, you know, you with you. That would like it would be so you. That would like it would be so you. That would like it would be so intense. But intense. But intense. But >> this is why it becomes so easy to >> this is why it becomes so easy to >> this is why it becomes so easy to misunderstand because we go through life misunderstand because we go through life misunderstand because we go through life assuming the other person has the same assuming the other person has the same assuming the other person has the same perspective as we do perspective as we do perspective as we do >> and they feel the same way that we do >> and they feel the same way that we do >> and they feel the same way that we do about things. And about things. And about things. And >> but what's the solution to that? I've >> but what's the solution to that? I've >> but what's the solution to that? I've had to learn had to learn had to learn to to to check in. check in. check in. >> Yeah. But don't you think she loves that >> Yeah. But don't you think she loves that >> Yeah. But don't you think she loves that about you? about you? about you? >> She does. She actually just sent me a >> She does. She actually just sent me a >> She does. She actually just sent me a message this morning saying, "Thank you message this morning saying, "Thank you message this morning saying, "Thank you so much." Because I said when I left so much." Because I said when I left so much." Because I said when I left this time, I said, "Listen, I'm going to this time, I said, "Listen, I'm going to this time, I said, "Listen, I'm going to FaceTime you every day, FaceTime you every day, FaceTime you every day, >> even if it's for just one minute." >> even if it's for just one minute." >> even if it's for just one minute." [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, >> So, >> So, >> isn't that lovely, though? You're still >> isn't that lovely, though? You're still >> isn't that lovely, though? You're still trying to figure out how can I be better trying to figure out how can I be better trying to figure out how can I be better at this thing? And that's amazing. at this thing? And that's amazing. at this thing? And that's amazing. That's a beautiful thing. You know That's a beautiful thing. You know That's a beautiful thing. You know what's so funny is if I walked into your what's so funny is if I walked into your what's so funny is if I walked into your home and on the table there was, you home and on the table there was, you home and on the table there was, you know, the power of habit by during or know, the power of habit by during or know, the power of habit by during or the seven habits of highly effective the seven habits of highly effective the seven habits of highly effective people, I would go, "Oh, look at look at people, I would go, "Oh, look at look at people, I would go, "Oh, look at look at Stephen. He's still so successful. He's Stephen. He's still so successful. He's Stephen. He's still so successful. He's still trying to sharpen the point of the still trying to sharpen the point of the still trying to sharpen the point of the spear. Amazing." You know, but if you spear. Amazing." You know, but if you spear. Amazing." You know, but if you walk in and you see a book, you know, walk in and you see a book, you know, walk in and you see a book, you know, how to stay in love, you go, "Things all how to stay in love, you go, "Things all how to stay in love, you go, "Things all right with Stephen? Like things going right with Stephen? Like things going right with Stephen? Like things going okay? What's going on with the okay? What's going on with the okay? What's going on with the relationship?" Why? Why don't we as a relationship?" Why? Why don't we as a relationship?" Why? Why don't we as a society just acknowledge we're we're society just acknowledge we're we're society just acknowledge we're we're kind of bad at this? We're kind of bad kind of bad at this? We're kind of bad kind of bad at this? We're kind of bad at maintaining connection. We're kind of at maintaining connection. We're kind of at maintaining connection. We're kind of bad at helping like feeling loved and bad at helping like feeling loved and bad at helping like feeling loved and feeling worthy of love and helping our feeling worthy of love and helping our feeling worthy of love and helping our partner feel loved and figuring out how partner feel loved and figuring out how partner feel loved and figuring out how to maintain connection. And maybe the to maintain connection. And maybe the to maintain connection. And maybe the key is that little thing, that one key is that little thing, that one key is that little thing, that one minute facetime, that one minute of minute facetime, that one minute of minute facetime, that one minute of saying, "Hey, maybe we should try this saying, "Hey, maybe we should try this saying, "Hey, maybe we should try this other thing." What are you actually other thing." What are you actually other thing." What are you actually saying? What you're actually saying is, saying? What you're actually saying is, saying? What you're actually saying is, "I want to be good at this job. How can "I want to be good at this job. How can "I want to be good at this job. How can I be good at this job? How can I stay I be good at this job? How can I stay I be good at this job? How can I stay good at it? How can I get even better at good at it? How can I get even better at good at it? How can I get even better at it?" Like, we go for the job interview it?" Like, we go for the job interview it?" Like, we go for the job interview and we want this job so bad. Like, and we want this job so bad. Like, and we want this job so bad. Like, that's what dating is. Dating is I'm that's what dating is. Dating is I'm that's what dating is. Dating is I'm sending my resume all over the place. sending my resume all over the place. sending my resume all over the place. I'm sending it all over the place. I I'm sending it all over the place. I I'm sending it all over the place. I hope I can find something, something hope I can find something, something hope I can find something, something that suits my skills and my needs and that suits my skills and my needs and that suits my skills and my needs and where they want me and I'll be well where they want me and I'll be well where they want me and I'll be well compensated and I'll get something from compensated and I'll get something from compensated and I'll get something from it and I'll give something to it because it and I'll give something to it because it and I'll give something to it because I have all this talent and I have all I have all this talent and I have all I have all this talent and I have all this stuff and I want to give it to a this stuff and I want to give it to a this stuff and I want to give it to a worthy cause and I want to be worthy cause and I want to be worthy cause and I want to be compensated for that and I want to feel compensated for that and I want to feel compensated for that and I want to feel part of something. That's all dating is part of something. That's all dating is part of something. That's all dating is is it's a job interview and then you get is it's a job interview and then you get is it's a job interview and then you get the job and for a little while you're the job and for a little while you're the job and for a little while you're like I got the job. It's the oh my god like I got the job. It's the oh my god like I got the job. It's the oh my god you should see the office is amazing and you should see the office is amazing and you should see the office is amazing and you should and I could I knew exactly you should and I could I knew exactly you should and I could I knew exactly what's going you know there's room for what's going you know there's room for what's going you know there's room for growth. There's room for growth in this growth. There's room for growth in this growth. There's room for growth in this job. It's going to be great, you know, job. It's going to be great, you know, job. It's going to be great, you know, and I I really feel like there's room and I I really feel like there's room and I I really feel like there's room for advancement. Like, this could be the for advancement. Like, this could be the for advancement. Like, this could be the job. This could be my career. This could job. This could be my career. This could job. This could be my career. This could be my vocation. It could be meaningful be my vocation. It could be meaningful be my vocation. It could be meaningful and wonderful. I think I have something and wonderful. I think I have something and wonderful. I think I have something I could contribute to. And we're so I could contribute to. And we're so I could contribute to. And we're so excited. And you jump ahead 3 years excited. And you jump ahead 3 years excited. And you jump ahead 3 years later and we're like, that [ __ ] job. later and we're like, that [ __ ] job. later and we're like, that [ __ ] job. That job. Yeah. No, I got to go to work That job. Yeah. No, I got to go to work That job. Yeah. No, I got to go to work again. Like, yep. All right. Here we go. again. Like, yep. All right. Here we go. again. Like, yep. All right. Here we go. That's it. You know, I got a friend who That's it. You know, I got a friend who That's it. You know, I got a friend who just got the best job. Oh my god. They just got the best job. Oh my god. They just got the best job. Oh my god. They had their they got the great and that's had their they got the great and that's had their they got the great and that's all we instead of trying to remember all we instead of trying to remember all we instead of trying to remember that at some point the relationship that that at some point the relationship that that at some point the relationship that you're in was something you aspired to you're in was something you aspired to you're in was something you aspired to like the idea that you were someday like the idea that you were someday like the idea that you were someday going to find a person who just was your going to find a person who just was your going to find a person who just was your favorite person and you were their favorite person and you were their favorite person and you were their favorite person and you were going to be favorite person and you were going to be favorite person and you were going to be there for each other and see each there for each other and see each there for each other and see each other's blind spots and help each other other's blind spots and help each other other's blind spots and help each other like figure out who you are and be it like figure out who you are and be it like figure out who you are and be it and that you were going to grow together and that you were going to grow together and that you were going to grow together and change together. And some core and change together. And some core and change together. And some core things would stay exactly the same. And things would stay exactly the same. And things would stay exactly the same. And some things would change in beautiful, some things would change in beautiful, some things would change in beautiful, meaningful ways. And you'd see each meaningful ways. And you'd see each meaningful ways. And you'd see each other through amazing things and other through amazing things and other through amazing things and terrible things and all the things that terrible things and all the things that terrible things and all the things that the world throws at you. You'd never be the world throws at you. You'd never be the world throws at you. You'd never be alone again because you'd have this alone again because you'd have this alone again because you'd have this person like, and somehow person like, and somehow person like, and somehow it's considered sort of odd to check in it's considered sort of odd to check in it's considered sort of odd to check in and want to be good at that job and have and want to be good at that job and have and want to be good at that job and have performance reviews. Like, you run performance reviews. Like, you run performance reviews. Like, you run teams. you run so many teams. How how teams. you run so many teams. How how teams. you run so many teams. How how often do you go, we don't need to have often do you go, we don't need to have often do you go, we don't need to have performance reviews? performance reviews? performance reviews? >> I think at the heart of this is we >> I think at the heart of this is we >> I think at the heart of this is we assume probably through media and social assume probably through media and social assume probably through media and social media that relationships are supposed to media that relationships are supposed to media that relationships are supposed to be effortless. be effortless. be effortless. >> Why? >> Why? >> Why? >> I don't just kind of what you see, >> I don't just kind of what you see, >> I don't just kind of what you see, right? Like I remember I remember um my right? Like I remember I remember um my right? Like I remember I remember um my girlfriend telling me the other day, she girlfriend telling me the other day, she girlfriend telling me the other day, she was like, "Oh, there's this couple I was like, "Oh, there's this couple I was like, "Oh, there's this couple I follow on Instagram and they're like follow on Instagram and they're like follow on Instagram and they're like amazing. um they're like the perfect amazing. um they're like the perfect amazing. um they're like the perfect couple and it's just just turned out couple and it's just just turned out couple and it's just just turned out that the guy is sleeping with someone that the guy is sleeping with someone that the guy is sleeping with someone else. else. else. >> Yeah. And I thought and again I thought >> Yeah. And I thought and again I thought >> Yeah. And I thought and again I thought well that watch my girlfriend well that watch my girlfriend well that watch my girlfriend vicariously watching that couple for the vicariously watching that couple for the vicariously watching that couple for the last 5 years has probably increased her last 5 years has probably increased her last 5 years has probably increased her expectations on what a relationship expectations on what a relationship expectations on what a relationship should be cuz she's just had this sort should be cuz she's just had this sort should be cuz she's just had this sort of two dimensional window but there was of two dimensional window but there was of two dimensional window but there was some some some the natural mess of relationship was the natural mess of relationship was the natural mess of relationship was taking place outside of you and we all taking place outside of you and we all taking place outside of you and we all just have the 2D window like just have the 2D window like just have the 2D window like relationship problems on Instagram relationship problems on Instagram relationship problems on Instagram broadcasting that doesn't doesn't drive broadcasting that doesn't doesn't drive broadcasting that doesn't doesn't drive [clears throat] followership. No. And [clears throat] followership. No. And [clears throat] followership. No. And what what what I'll also say is look, we what what what I'll also say is look, we what what what I'll also say is look, we formulate a lot of our conception of formulate a lot of our conception of formulate a lot of our conception of what a relationship should look like by what a relationship should look like by what a relationship should look like by portrayals of relationships in film and portrayals of relationships in film and portrayals of relationships in film and television, right? Yeah. Okay. So, television, right? Yeah. Okay. So, television, right? Yeah. Okay. So, >> can we agree that the romcom or the >> can we agree that the romcom or the >> can we agree that the romcom or the romantic film romantic film romantic film is basically just an emotional version is basically just an emotional version is basically just an emotional version of pornography? like it's a stylized of pornography? like it's a stylized of pornography? like it's a stylized excerted falsehood that's designed to excerted falsehood that's designed to excerted falsehood that's designed to amplify the the most visually and amplify the the most visually and amplify the the most visually and emotionally compelling or stimulating emotionally compelling or stimulating emotionally compelling or stimulating aspects of things like yes there's aspects of things like yes there's aspects of things like yes there's conflict but it gets cleaned up very conflict but it gets cleaned up very conflict but it gets cleaned up very neatly and very nicely like there's it's neatly and very nicely like there's it's neatly and very nicely like there's it's so this perception that that so this perception that that so this perception that that relationships should be effortless relationships should be effortless relationships should be effortless is based I think on largely that which is based I think on largely that which is based I think on largely that which is this feeling that and again whether a is this feeling that and again whether a is this feeling that and again whether a story is a comedy or a tragedy depends story is a comedy or a tragedy depends story is a comedy or a tragedy depends and where you end the story, right? So, and where you end the story, right? So, and where you end the story, right? So, we always end the story in a spot where we always end the story in a spot where we always end the story in a spot where it's like, "Tada, they're in love and it's like, "Tada, they're in love and it's like, "Tada, they're in love and they walk off hand in hand." But, right, they walk off hand in hand." But, right, they walk off hand in hand." But, right, they walk off into life. They walk off they walk off into life. They walk off they walk off into life. They walk off into this ecosystem of life that's into this ecosystem of life that's into this ecosystem of life that's filled with complexity and there's filled with complexity and there's filled with complexity and there's factors beyond our control that are factors beyond our control that are factors beyond our control that are impacting our emotional state, the impacting our emotional state, the impacting our emotional state, the emotional state of our partner, the you, emotional state of our partner, the you, emotional state of our partner, the you, the me, and the Wii. So, there's a lot the me, and the Wii. So, there's a lot the me, and the Wii. So, there's a lot going on and and the thought that, well, going on and and the thought that, well, going on and and the thought that, well, this should be effortless. everything this should be effortless. everything this should be effortless. everything else is a lot of work and potentially else is a lot of work and potentially else is a lot of work and potentially and by the way the opposite and by the way the opposite and by the way the opposite like this is effortless and this is a like this is effortless and this is a like this is effortless and this is a drudgery and we tend to just see things drudgery and we tend to just see things drudgery and we tend to just see things in that binary way unnecessarily like in that binary way unnecessarily like in that binary way unnecessarily like we've made so much progress as a society we've made so much progress as a society we've made so much progress as a society when it comes to not viewing everything when it comes to not viewing everything when it comes to not viewing everything in a binary like there's there's not as in a binary like there's there's not as in a binary like there's there's not as much rigidity about gender roles anymore much rigidity about gender roles anymore much rigidity about gender roles anymore there's not as rigidity about you know there's not as rigidity about you know there's not as rigidity about you know are you a worker are you like a career are you a worker are you like a career are you a worker are you like a career person or a family person like there's a person or a family person like there's a person or a family person like there's a sense of weight. You can kind of be a sense of weight. You can kind of be a sense of weight. You can kind of be a little bit of both. Like look at these little bit of both. Like look at these little bit of both. Like look at these things as a spectrum a little bit. So, things as a spectrum a little bit. So, things as a spectrum a little bit. So, but this we're still pretty glued into but this we're still pretty glued into but this we're still pretty glued into this idea that like relationships are this idea that like relationships are this idea that like relationships are supposed to be the smoothest, easiest supposed to be the smoothest, easiest supposed to be the smoothest, easiest thing or relationships are hard work. thing or relationships are hard work. thing or relationships are hard work. You're not supposed to be happy all the You're not supposed to be happy all the You're not supposed to be happy all the time. And shut up if you think that time. And shut up if you think that time. And shut up if you think that that's what you oh you're not happy. that's what you oh you're not happy. that's what you oh you're not happy. Nobody's happy or you're not supposed to Nobody's happy or you're not supposed to Nobody's happy or you're not supposed to be happy. That's not the point of be happy. That's not the point of be happy. That's not the point of marriage. The point of marriage is a marriage. The point of marriage is a marriage. The point of marriage is a commitment. commitment. commitment. >> Are relationships supposed to be simple? >> Are relationships supposed to be simple? >> Are relationships supposed to be simple? >> I don't know what you mean by simple. >> I don't know what you mean by simple. >> I don't know what you mean by simple. Simple to navigate? No, they're Simple to navigate? No, they're Simple to navigate? No, they're obviously not simple to navigate because obviously not simple to navigate because obviously not simple to navigate because 56% of them end in divorce. 56% of them end in divorce. 56% of them end in divorce. >> Is it going to be hard? >> Is it going to be hard? >> Is it going to be hard? >> If your definition of hard is I have to >> If your definition of hard is I have to >> If your definition of hard is I have to pay some level of attention to it, then pay some level of attention to it, then pay some level of attention to it, then yes, it's going to be hard. Is that yes, it's going to be hard. Is that yes, it's going to be hard. Is that hard? Like, is that hard? Really? Is hard? Like, is that hard? Really? Is hard? Like, is that hard? Really? Is that hard? Like, I don't think it's that that hard? Like, I don't think it's that that hard? Like, I don't think it's that hard. Paying attention isn't that hard. hard. Paying attention isn't that hard. hard. Paying attention isn't that hard. Remembering to pay attention might be Remembering to pay attention might be Remembering to pay attention might be hard, but don't you create reminders for hard, but don't you create reminders for hard, but don't you create reminders for yourself? You've got so many gadgets and yourself? You've got so many gadgets and yourself? You've got so many gadgets and you can't have some reminder in the day you can't have some reminder in the day you can't have some reminder in the day of like, oh of like, oh of like, oh her, keep her in my line of sight. her, keep her in my line of sight. her, keep her in my line of sight. Again, it doesn't mean you don't love Again, it doesn't mean you don't love Again, it doesn't mean you don't love her, that she's not front of mind. It her, that she's not front of mind. It her, that she's not front of mind. It means you're a driven, hardworking means you're a driven, hardworking means you're a driven, hardworking person. I'm a driven, hardworking person. I'm a driven, hardworking person. I'm a driven, hardworking person. There's tons of times where very person. There's tons of times where very person. There's tons of times where very important things in my life aren't front important things in my life aren't front important things in my life aren't front of mind. But that's why I use reminders. of mind. But that's why I use reminders. of mind. But that's why I use reminders. >> So to invert that question that I asked >> So to invert that question that I asked >> So to invert that question that I asked at the top of this, if I am to come to at the top of this, if I am to come to at the top of this, if I am to come to you at some point in the future, James, you at some point in the future, James, you at some point in the future, James, and I say, "Listen, I need a divorce." and I say, "Listen, I need a divorce." and I say, "Listen, I need a divorce." >> What am I likely to give as the reason >> What am I likely to give as the reason >> What am I likely to give as the reason for that based on, you know, who I am for that based on, you know, who I am for that based on, you know, who I am and how that correlates to the clients and how that correlates to the clients and how that correlates to the clients like me that you deal with? like me that you deal with? like me that you deal with? >> Yeah. So the reason you're going to give >> Yeah. So the reason you're going to give >> Yeah. So the reason you're going to give and the underlying reason is different. and the underlying reason is different. and the underlying reason is different. So, the the reason you're going to give So, the the reason you're going to give So, the the reason you're going to give is going to be a practical reason, which is going to be a practical reason, which is going to be a practical reason, which is either I've met someone else, she's is either I've met someone else, she's is either I've met someone else, she's met someone else, um we've had a met someone else, um we've had a met someone else, um we've had a terrible fight and uh I've said things terrible fight and uh I've said things terrible fight and uh I've said things that we can't take back. I had a that we can't take back. I had a that we can't take back. I had a spectacular failure financially and spectacular failure financially and spectacular failure financially and she's just bailing on me because she she's just bailing on me because she she's just bailing on me because she sees that the future's really rocky or sees that the future's really rocky or sees that the future's really rocky or she made some terrible decision and did she made some terrible decision and did she made some terrible decision and did something awful that's a betrayal that I something awful that's a betrayal that I something awful that's a betrayal that I can't abide by. But again, that's the can't abide by. But again, that's the can't abide by. But again, that's the presenting reason. presenting reason. presenting reason. Underneath that is the bigger reason, Underneath that is the bigger reason, Underneath that is the bigger reason, which is we lost the plot. which is we lost the plot. which is we lost the plot. We lost the plot. Like that that's a We lost the plot. Like that that's a We lost the plot. Like that that's a that's the start of a chapter in a that's the start of a chapter in a that's the start of a chapter in a story. It's the end of a chapter and the story. It's the end of a chapter and the story. It's the end of a chapter and the start of a chapter. That photo like the start of a chapter. That photo like the start of a chapter. That photo like the first chapter in that story was was was first chapter in that story was was was first chapter in that story was was was this person and this person wandering this person and this person wandering this person and this person wandering around on the same planet trying to around on the same planet trying to around on the same planet trying to figure it out, trying to figure out what figure it out, trying to figure out what figure it out, trying to figure out what they're doing. And they have their they're doing. And they have their they're doing. And they have their origin story and they have their you origin story and they have their you origin story and they have their you know their complimentary pathologies know their complimentary pathologies know their complimentary pathologies that developed over time and then you that developed over time and then you that developed over time and then you know they found each other. 8 billion know they found each other. 8 billion know they found each other. 8 billion people in the world and somehow their people in the world and somehow their people in the world and somehow their paths intersected you know and they paths intersected you know and they paths intersected you know and they started to have this connection and so started to have this connection and so started to have this connection and so there was the you and there was the me there was the you and there was the me there was the you and there was the me and then there was the Wii and that ven and then there was the Wii and that ven and then there was the Wii and that ven diagram started right and then you start diagram started right and then you start diagram started right and then you start to fill it with things you fill it with to fill it with things you fill it with to fill it with things you fill it with people. You fill it with experiences. people. You fill it with experiences. people. You fill it with experiences. And this is just a stop along the way And this is just a stop along the way And this is just a stop along the way like this. These two people, this is like this. These two people, this is like this. These two people, this is just a moment. It's an incredible just a moment. It's an incredible just a moment. It's an incredible moment. It can be like kuman. It can be moment. It can be like kuman. It can be moment. It can be like kuman. It can be like a moment that there was this and like a moment that there was this and like a moment that there was this and then everything after this. It's a then everything after this. It's a then everything after this. It's a punctuation mark. Like I like to say punctuation mark. Like I like to say punctuation mark. Like I like to say that life has punctuation marks. Like that life has punctuation marks. Like that life has punctuation marks. Like you had a kid, you lost your job, you you had a kid, you lost your job, you you had a kid, you lost your job, you got a job, whatever. Those are got a job, whatever. Those are got a job, whatever. Those are punctuation marks. This is a big punctuation marks. This is a big punctuation marks. This is a big punctuation mark. And it will either be punctuation mark. And it will either be punctuation mark. And it will either be you know the beginning of the end or the you know the beginning of the end or the you know the beginning of the end or the end of the beginning. You get to write end of the beginning. You get to write end of the beginning. You get to write that. You get to write that chapter. But that. You get to write that chapter. But that. You get to write that chapter. But this is a moment for me. The reason why this is a moment for me. The reason why this is a moment for me. The reason why this is a beautiful moment is this is a this is a beautiful moment is this is a this is a beautiful moment is this is a moment of tremendous optimism. This is a moment of tremendous optimism. This is a moment of tremendous optimism. This is a moment where the two of you said you're moment where the two of you said you're moment where the two of you said you're my favorite person and and I I want to my favorite person and and I I want to my favorite person and and I I want to write this next chapter with you as as write this next chapter with you as as write this next chapter with you as as having a different title in it. But having a different title in it. But having a different title in it. But really, like the title's just a symbol. really, like the title's just a symbol. really, like the title's just a symbol. The the ring is just a symbol. It's just The the ring is just a symbol. It's just The the ring is just a symbol. It's just a symbol of a commitment. It's a symbol a symbol of a commitment. It's a symbol a symbol of a commitment. It's a symbol of of a promise. And all a promises is a of of a promise. And all a promises is a of of a promise. And all a promises is a symbol of intention. That's all. It's symbol of intention. That's all. It's symbol of intention. That's all. It's just an intention. Our intention is just an intention. Our intention is just an intention. Our intention is we're not going to be alone anymore. we're not going to be alone anymore. we're not going to be alone anymore. We're going to do this together. And by We're going to do this together. And by We're going to do this together. And by the way, you're already not alone. The the way, you're already not alone. The the way, you're already not alone. The fact that you got to this place that you fact that you got to this place that you fact that you got to this place that you would ask this question, that that's a would ask this question, that that's a would ask this question, that that's a beautiful confirmation of the fact that beautiful confirmation of the fact that beautiful confirmation of the fact that you don't feel alone. you don't feel alone. you don't feel alone. >> We would have lost the plot. >> We would have lost the plot. >> We would have lost the plot. Yeah. Yeah. You would have lost the plot Yeah. Yeah. You would have lost the plot Yeah. Yeah. You would have lost the plot of the story. I So, this is a story. of the story. I So, this is a story. of the story. I So, this is a story. Where does this story go? Where do you Where does this story go? Where do you Where does this story go? Where do you want it to go? You want it to go to a want it to go? You want it to go to a want it to go? You want it to go to a future that features the two of you old future that features the two of you old future that features the two of you old together someday. Maybe it features together someday. Maybe it features together someday. Maybe it features children. Maybe it features companion children. Maybe it features companion children. Maybe it features companion animals. animals. animals. >> And what what is the most likely reason >> And what what is the most likely reason >> And what what is the most likely reason that we would lose the plot? that we would lose the plot? that we would lose the plot? >> You stop paying attention. >> You stop paying attention. >> You stop paying attention. >> You stop you stop doing what you're >> You stop you stop doing what you're >> You stop you stop doing what you're currently do. How did you get to this currently do. How did you get to this currently do. How did you get to this beautiful moment? You start doing the beautiful moment? You start doing the beautiful moment? You start doing the opposite. You got to this moment by opposite. You got to this moment by opposite. You got to this moment by paying attention. You got to this moment paying attention. You got to this moment paying attention. You got to this moment by making this a priority. You got to by making this a priority. You got to by making this a priority. You got to this moment by by keeping this front of this moment by by keeping this front of this moment by by keeping this front of mind. By valuing what is this but a mind. By valuing what is this but a mind. By valuing what is this but a symbol of you are valuable to me. Why symbol of you are valuable to me. Why symbol of you are valuable to me. Why did you get on one knee? Why do you get did you get on one knee? Why do you get did you get on one knee? Why do you get on one knee? I mean, think about the on one knee? I mean, think about the on one knee? I mean, think about the symbols of all of this. We live in a symbols of all of this. We live in a symbols of all of this. We live in a world of symbols. Like the outfit I'm world of symbols. Like the outfit I'm world of symbols. Like the outfit I'm wearing, I'm saying something to you. I wearing, I'm saying something to you. I wearing, I'm saying something to you. I take this seriously. That's why you wear take this seriously. That's why you wear take this seriously. That's why you wear a suit. is you wear a suit to say I take a suit. is you wear a suit to say I take a suit. is you wear a suit to say I take this seriously. So what why did you do this seriously. So what why did you do this seriously. So what why did you do this? What is this as simple? I'm down this? What is this as simple? I'm down this? What is this as simple? I'm down on one knee. Why? I'm humbling myself in on one knee. Why? I'm humbling myself in on one knee. Why? I'm humbling myself in front of you. I'm offering something to front of you. I'm offering something to front of you. I'm offering something to you. I'm hoping you will accept the gift you. I'm hoping you will accept the gift you. I'm hoping you will accept the gift I am giving to you. Like there's I am giving to you. Like there's I am giving to you. Like there's something very lovely about that symbol. something very lovely about that symbol. something very lovely about that symbol. >> Is this is this what you call slippage? >> Is this is this what you call slippage? >> Is this is this what you call slippage? >> Slippage is exactly when you start to >> Slippage is exactly when you start to >> Slippage is exactly when you start to unintentionally again people rarely have unintentionally again people rarely have unintentionally again people rarely have slippage intentionally. It's usually slippage intentionally. It's usually slippage intentionally. It's usually that, okay, we got that knocked out. Now that, okay, we got that knocked out. Now that, okay, we got that knocked out. Now we can focus on the other stuff. And we can focus on the other stuff. And we can focus on the other stuff. And that's slippage. Slippage is these small that's slippage. Slippage is these small that's slippage. Slippage is these small disconnections. Small disconnections disconnections. Small disconnections disconnections. Small disconnections that in of themselves mean nothing. Like that in of themselves mean nothing. Like that in of themselves mean nothing. Like no single raindrops responsible for the no single raindrops responsible for the no single raindrops responsible for the flood. That little raindrop, it's just a flood. That little raindrop, it's just a flood. That little raindrop, it's just a little raindrop. That's all it really little raindrop. That's all it really little raindrop. That's all it really is. But slippage is this gradually is. But slippage is this gradually is. But slippage is this gradually increasing number of small increasing number of small increasing number of small disconnections that eventually leads to disconnections that eventually leads to disconnections that eventually leads to the giant marriage killer that you come the giant marriage killer that you come the giant marriage killer that you come in and say, "Here's why we're getting in and say, "Here's why we're getting in and say, "Here's why we're getting divorced." But it wasn't that. It it was divorced." But it wasn't that. It it was divorced." But it wasn't that. It it was all these little pieces, but at some all these little pieces, but at some all these little pieces, but at some point you were there. point you were there. point you were there. >> Do you think people >> Do you think people >> Do you think people spot the slippage in the moment, but spot the slippage in the moment, but spot the slippage in the moment, but they don't think it's big enough to they don't think it's big enough to they don't think it's big enough to fight about or do something about? fight about or do something about? fight about or do something about? >> 100%. And that's that's the cognitive >> 100%. And that's that's the cognitive >> 100%. And that's that's the cognitive bias. That's the fallacy that will keep bias. That's the fallacy that will keep bias. That's the fallacy that will keep me in business for the rest of my life me in business for the rest of my life me in business for the rest of my life because people just don't want temporary because people just don't want temporary because people just don't want temporary discomfort. Like our desire for joy discomfort. Like our desire for joy discomfort. Like our desire for joy versus our aversion to pain, our versus our aversion to pain, our versus our aversion to pain, our aversion to pain will win every single aversion to pain will win every single aversion to pain will win every single time. We know this. That's why there was time. We know this. That's why there was time. We know this. That's why there was an opiate crisis more so than a cocaine an opiate crisis more so than a cocaine an opiate crisis more so than a cocaine crisis. Because one of those things is crisis. Because one of those things is crisis. Because one of those things is about making you feel really good and about making you feel really good and about making you feel really good and the other is about getting rid of pain. the other is about getting rid of pain. the other is about getting rid of pain. Like the the human desire any scientist Like the the human desire any scientist Like the the human desire any scientist will tell you this ask our friend Andrew will tell you this ask our friend Andrew will tell you this ask our friend Andrew Huberman ask anybody they will tell you Huberman ask anybody they will tell you Huberman ask anybody they will tell you the human desire to escape pain is the the human desire to escape pain is the the human desire to escape pain is the controlling aspect of self. So escaping controlling aspect of self. So escaping controlling aspect of self. So escaping pain even discomfort even dis and again pain even discomfort even dis and again pain even discomfort even dis and again this is this is pushed by the narrative this is this is pushed by the narrative this is this is pushed by the narrative that love should be easy. If you're that love should be easy. If you're that love should be easy. If you're going to make if anything's going to make if anything's going to make if anything's uncomfortable about it, you must be uncomfortable about it, you must be uncomfortable about it, you must be doing it wrong. Maybe you're not with doing it wrong. Maybe you're not with doing it wrong. Maybe you're not with your soulmate. You know, it would be so your soulmate. You know, it would be so your soulmate. You know, it would be so easy and effortless. You'd always know easy and effortless. You'd always know easy and effortless. You'd always know what the other person wanted. You'd what the other person wanted. You'd what the other person wanted. You'd never have to tell them. They would never have to tell them. They would never have to tell them. They would know. They would know you well enough to know. They would know you well enough to know. They would know you well enough to know what it is that you need. And they know what it is that you need. And they know what it is that you need. And they would get you. Even though, by the way, would get you. Even though, by the way, would get you. Even though, by the way, really, really like I'm 53 years old. really, really like I'm 53 years old. really, really like I'm 53 years old. I've been in therapy for 20 years. I've been in therapy for 20 years. I've been in therapy for 20 years. I get like 70% of this guy, I think, I get like 70% of this guy, I think, I get like 70% of this guy, I think, like at best. Like, and I'm in here. I'm like at best. Like, and I'm in here. I'm like at best. Like, and I'm in here. I'm in here and I get about 70% of this guy. in here and I get about 70% of this guy. in here and I get about 70% of this guy. Like, and I'm supposed to get you a Like, and I'm supposed to get you a Like, and I'm supposed to get you a 100%. 100%. 100%. Because we're exchanging bodily fluids. Because we're exchanging bodily fluids. Because we're exchanging bodily fluids. Like, we're I'm supposed to just cuz Like, we're I'm supposed to just cuz Like, we're I'm supposed to just cuz we've slept in the same bed, I'm we've slept in the same bed, I'm we've slept in the same bed, I'm supposed to get you 100% and get ahead supposed to get you 100% and get ahead supposed to get you 100% and get ahead of stuff. Like, I get me 70%. And that's of stuff. Like, I get me 70%. And that's of stuff. Like, I get me 70%. And that's with a lot of reflection. So, I I really with a lot of reflection. So, I I really with a lot of reflection. So, I I really think that it's wildly unfair for us to think that it's wildly unfair for us to think that it's wildly unfair for us to to to think that, you know, this should to to think that, you know, this should to to think that, you know, this should be effortless, this should be easy, and be effortless, this should be easy, and be effortless, this should be easy, and that it should never be uncomfortable. that it should never be uncomfortable. that it should never be uncomfortable. It's okay to be like I I think because It's okay to be like I I think because It's okay to be like I I think because of what I do for a living, I have to of what I do for a living, I have to of what I do for a living, I have to tell people things they don't want to tell people things they don't want to tell people things they don't want to hear all day because it's true. And I hear all day because it's true. And I hear all day because it's true. And I tell them what they need to hear and not tell them what they need to hear and not tell them what they need to hear and not what they want to hear. And you know, what they want to hear. And you know, what they want to hear. And you know, when clients say to me at the end of a when clients say to me at the end of a when clients say to me at the end of a consultation or conversation like, "Oh consultation or conversation like, "Oh consultation or conversation like, "Oh my god, I feel so much better." better. my god, I feel so much better." better. my god, I feel so much better." better. I always go, "That's great. That wasn't I always go, "That's great. That wasn't I always go, "That's great. That wasn't my intention." Because I don't want my intention." Because I don't want my intention." Because I don't want anyone I talk to professionally to think anyone I talk to professionally to think anyone I talk to professionally to think I am telling you something to make you I am telling you something to make you I am telling you something to make you feel better. I'm not here to make you feel better. I'm not here to make you feel better. I'm not here to make you feel better. I'm not a therapist. I'm feel better. I'm not a therapist. I'm feel better. I'm not a therapist. I'm here to tell you the truth. And if the here to tell you the truth. And if the here to tell you the truth. And if the truth makes you feel better, great. If truth makes you feel better, great. If truth makes you feel better, great. If the truth makes you uncomfortable, at the truth makes you uncomfortable, at the truth makes you uncomfortable, at least you know the truth now. So, I feel least you know the truth now. So, I feel least you know the truth now. So, I feel like in relationship again, if what you like in relationship again, if what you like in relationship again, if what you want most is lasting lifelong connection want most is lasting lifelong connection want most is lasting lifelong connection where we get each other as best we can, where we get each other as best we can, where we get each other as best we can, we can help each other navigate self and we can help each other navigate self and we can help each other navigate self and each other as best we can and we cannot each other as best we can and we cannot each other as best we can and we cannot lose the plot of a story that is really lose the plot of a story that is really lose the plot of a story that is really beautiful right now. So, everybody beautiful right now. So, everybody beautiful right now. So, everybody listening can probably think about listening can probably think about listening can probably think about something in their relationship which something in their relationship which something in their relationship which has gotten a little bit worse has gotten a little bit worse has gotten a little bit worse >> since they first got into that >> since they first got into that >> since they first got into that relationship. And it could be the way relationship. And it could be the way relationship. And it could be the way that they argue is getting a little bit that they argue is getting a little bit that they argue is getting a little bit worse. They're not listening as much. worse. They're not listening as much. worse. They're not listening as much. >> Maybe the voice the the tone has gone up >> Maybe the voice the the tone has gone up >> Maybe the voice the the tone has gone up or it's getting a little bit more angry. or it's getting a little bit more angry. or it's getting a little bit more angry. >> Um, whatever it is in their >> Um, whatever it is in their >> Um, whatever it is in their relationship, what do they need to do relationship, what do they need to do relationship, what do they need to do now? It's like it's not flooded yet. now? It's like it's not flooded yet. now? It's like it's not flooded yet. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But there's >> But there's >> But there's >> best time to look at it, best time to >> best time to look at it, best time to >> best time to look at it, best time to talk about it. There's a puddle. talk about it. There's a puddle. talk about it. There's a puddle. >> So, what I do for a living in court >> So, what I do for a living in court >> So, what I do for a living in court is I try to manipulate people's is I try to manipulate people's is I try to manipulate people's emotional state. That's my job. Like, my emotional state. That's my job. Like, my emotional state. That's my job. Like, my job is to go and make the judge like my job is to go and make the judge like my job is to go and make the judge like my client, dislike the other side. I want client, dislike the other side. I want client, dislike the other side. I want the other side to feel scared. I want my the other side to feel scared. I want my the other side to feel scared. I want my client to feel safe. I want the court client to feel safe. I want the court client to feel safe. I want the court reporter who's taking things down and reporter who's taking things down and reporter who's taking things down and the court officer to like me and to like the court officer to like me and to like the court officer to like me and to like my client so that when we take a break my client so that when we take a break my client so that when we take a break in testimony and they go in the back in testimony and they go in the back in testimony and they go in the back with the judge, they go, "I like Jim. with the judge, they go, "I like Jim. with the judge, they go, "I like Jim. He's a really good lawyer." Or, "Oh, his He's a really good lawyer." Or, "Oh, his He's a really good lawyer." Or, "Oh, his client seems so nice." Or, "Boy, the client seems so nice." Or, "Boy, the client seems so nice." Or, "Boy, the other guy seems like a jerk." Or, "Boy, other guy seems like a jerk." Or, "Boy, other guy seems like a jerk." Or, "Boy, that other lawyer is a jerk." Like so that other lawyer is a jerk." Like so that other lawyer is a jerk." Like so I'm here manipulating people's emotional I'm here manipulating people's emotional I'm here manipulating people's emotional state. That's my job. Like that's what a state. That's my job. Like that's what a state. That's my job. Like that's what a trial lawyer does. We manipulate trial lawyer does. We manipulate trial lawyer does. We manipulate people's emotional state. We play with people's emotional state. We play with people's emotional state. We play with the levers, right? So I say this as to the levers, right? So I say this as to the levers, right? So I say this as to say say say we should be doing this in our we should be doing this in our we should be doing this in our relationships. There's nothing nefarious relationships. There's nothing nefarious relationships. There's nothing nefarious about that. These are tools and how you about that. These are tools and how you about that. These are tools and how you use them will will give you a sense of use them will will give you a sense of use them will will give you a sense of whether it's good or bad or what. Look, whether it's good or bad or what. Look, whether it's good or bad or what. Look, if what you are doing is to maintain if what you are doing is to maintain if what you are doing is to maintain connection, how you parse it is going to connection, how you parse it is going to connection, how you parse it is going to be everything. So, even the way you just be everything. So, even the way you just be everything. So, even the way you just said that, like, well, something's kind said that, like, well, something's kind said that, like, well, something's kind of going wrong in the relationship. of going wrong in the relationship. of going wrong in the relationship. Okay, we're already off to the wrong Okay, we're already off to the wrong Okay, we're already off to the wrong narrative because when someone tells you narrative because when someone tells you narrative because when someone tells you something's been done wrong, there's something's been done wrong, there's something's been done wrong, there's this automatic defensive response of, this automatic defensive response of, this automatic defensive response of, well, I didn't mean to do it wrong and well, I didn't mean to do it wrong and well, I didn't mean to do it wrong and well, you know, it's not my fault that I well, you know, it's not my fault that I well, you know, it's not my fault that I did it wrong. It brings out something did it wrong. It brings out something did it wrong. It brings out something defensive in us rather than saying defensive in us rather than saying defensive in us rather than saying something's changed. Have you noticed something's changed. Have you noticed something's changed. Have you noticed that something changed? Have you noticed that something changed? Have you noticed that something changed? Have you noticed that remember when we used to talk to that remember when we used to talk to that remember when we used to talk to each other about you know sometimes like each other about you know sometimes like each other about you know sometimes like and I don't know if it's something that and I don't know if it's something that and I don't know if it's something that I've done and if it is you know I I I I've done and if it is you know I I I I've done and if it is you know I I I really would appreciate you telling me really would appreciate you telling me really would appreciate you telling me but like when we have been fighting but like when we have been fighting but like when we have been fighting lately like that the tone seems to have lately like that the tone seems to have lately like that the tone seems to have changed. Have you noticed that? Is it changed. Have you noticed that? Is it changed. Have you noticed that? Is it just me? I now it's a non-defensive just me? I now it's a non-defensive just me? I now it's a non-defensive dialogue. I'm not accusing you of dialogue. I'm not accusing you of dialogue. I'm not accusing you of something. I'm noting that something has something. I'm noting that something has something. I'm noting that something has changed. And by the way, good. We love changed. And by the way, good. We love changed. And by the way, good. We love each look at how much we love each other each look at how much we love each other each look at how much we love each other in that picture. Like look at put the in that picture. Like look at put the in that picture. Like look at put the wedding photos up somewhere. Look at wedding photos up somewhere. Look at wedding photos up somewhere. Look at that moment. We were nuts about each that moment. We were nuts about each that moment. We were nuts about each other in that moment. We were everything other in that moment. We were everything other in that moment. We were everything the other person ever wanted and more. the other person ever wanted and more. the other person ever wanted and more. So anytime something has changed from So anytime something has changed from So anytime something has changed from that, don't you want to know? Don't you that, don't you want to know? Don't you that, don't you want to know? Don't you want to know? And by the way, not in an want to know? And by the way, not in an want to know? And by the way, not in an accusatory fashion. The most common one accusatory fashion. The most common one accusatory fashion. The most common one is we're not having sex as much as we is we're not having sex as much as we is we're not having sex as much as we used to. We're not having sex. We're not used to. We're not having sex. We're not used to. We're not having sex. We're not having much sex. I'm not getting as much having much sex. I'm not getting as much having much sex. I'm not getting as much oral sex as I used to get. We're not oral sex as I used to get. We're not oral sex as I used to get. We're not getting Okay, there's a way to say that getting Okay, there's a way to say that getting Okay, there's a way to say that the way I just said it. That's just the way I just said it. That's just the way I just said it. That's just going to blow up in your face. It's not going to blow up in your face. It's not going to blow up in your face. It's not going to work because it's, well, well, going to work because it's, well, well, going to work because it's, well, well, YOU HAVEN'T BEEN AROUND AS MUCH. WELL, I YOU HAVEN'T BEEN AROUND AS MUCH. WELL, I YOU HAVEN'T BEEN AROUND AS MUCH. WELL, I HAVEN'T BEEN AROUND AS much cuz I'm HAVEN'T BEEN AROUND AS much cuz I'm HAVEN'T BEEN AROUND AS much cuz I'm working so much and I don't see you working so much and I don't see you working so much and I don't see you spending less. Well, you know, honestly, spending less. Well, you know, honestly, spending less. Well, you know, honestly, if it comes down to that, I'd spend a if it comes down to that, I'd spend a if it comes down to that, I'd spend a lot to not have you treat me this way. lot to not have you treat me this way. lot to not have you treat me this way. Now, we're just having a fight. Whereas, Now, we're just having a fight. Whereas, Now, we're just having a fight. Whereas, if we say like, oh, remember how clo if we say like, oh, remember how clo if we say like, oh, remember how clo remember when we went away? I was just remember when we went away? I was just remember when we went away? I was just thinking yesterday about when we went thinking yesterday about when we went thinking yesterday about when we went away that weekend. Remember we ended up away that weekend. Remember we ended up away that weekend. Remember we ended up not even leaving the room? It was so not even leaving the room? It was so not even leaving the room? It was so fun. I love when we're like feeling that fun. I love when we're like feeling that fun. I love when we're like feeling that connected and close, you know? I feel connected and close, you know? I feel connected and close, you know? I feel like I feel like lately sometimes like like I feel like lately sometimes like like I feel like lately sometimes like we're maybe not as connected and close we're maybe not as connected and close we're maybe not as connected and close like and if there's something I'm I'm like and if there's something I'm I'm like and if there's something I'm I'm doing that's making that like I I really doing that's making that like I I really doing that's making that like I I really want to get it right. Like I really want want to get it right. Like I really want want to get it right. Like I really want to get it right. You know, there's to get it right. You know, there's to get it right. You know, there's something about something about something about apologizing first, like having some apologizing first, like having some apologizing first, like having some humility in relationship that has humility in relationship that has humility in relationship that has tremendous value. Like when a lawyer tremendous value. Like when a lawyer tremendous value. Like when a lawyer like I'll I'll tell you one of my trade like I'll I'll tell you one of my trade like I'll I'll tell you one of my trade secrets. You know, I my job is a very secrets. You know, I my job is a very secrets. You know, I my job is a very combative job sometimes. So, there's combative job sometimes. So, there's combative job sometimes. So, there's times where being very aggressive is the times where being very aggressive is the times where being very aggressive is the right move. But there's times where right move. But there's times where right move. But there's times where being aggressive just doesn't accomplish being aggressive just doesn't accomplish being aggressive just doesn't accomplish anything. And if I'm interacting with a anything. And if I'm interacting with a anything. And if I'm interacting with a lawyer for the first time, this is lawyer for the first time, this is lawyer for the first time, this is someone I haven't had cases with. So, we someone I haven't had cases with. So, we someone I haven't had cases with. So, we don't know each other except by don't know each other except by don't know each other except by reputation and they come at me really reputation and they come at me really reputation and they come at me really hard, the first thing I'll do is hard, the first thing I'll do is hard, the first thing I'll do is apologize. I'll say, "You know, I I I'm apologize. I'll say, "You know, I I I'm apologize. I'll say, "You know, I I I'm sorry. I just have to say like your tone sorry. I just have to say like your tone sorry. I just have to say like your tone like you're coming at me like it if I like you're coming at me like it if I like you're coming at me like it if I said something in our initial said something in our initial said something in our initial interaction that made you feel like that interaction that made you feel like that interaction that made you feel like that I didn't have respect for you or that I didn't have respect for you or that I didn't have respect for you or that you know I didn't value your perspective you know I didn't value your perspective you know I didn't value your perspective or like it I have a tendency to or like it I have a tendency to or like it I have a tendency to interrupt people sometimes I have a interrupt people sometimes I have a interrupt people sometimes I have a tendency to so if I offended you I tendency to so if I offended you I tendency to so if I offended you I apologize because the way that you're apologize because the way that you're apologize because the way that you're kind of talking to me like I feel like I kind of talking to me like I feel like I kind of talking to me like I feel like I must have said something wrong or I must must have said something wrong or I must must have said something wrong or I must have so I apologize absolutely if I did have so I apologize absolutely if I did have so I apologize absolutely if I did what is the per what choice do they have what is the per what choice do they have what is the per what choice do they have but to then but to then but to then Oh, no, no, that's that's just my tone. Oh, no, no, that's that's just my tone. Oh, no, no, that's that's just my tone. That's just how I Oh, yeah, of course. That's just how I Oh, yeah, of course. That's just how I Oh, yeah, of course. Look, hey, we all have a game face or I Look, hey, we all have a game face or I Look, hey, we all have a game face or I just felt like, oh my god, like this just felt like, oh my god, like this just felt like, oh my god, like this guy's coming at me so hard. Like I I guy's coming at me so hard. Like I I guy's coming at me so hard. Like I I felt like I must have said something felt like I must have said something felt like I must have said something inadvertently or, you know, and and then inadvertently or, you know, and and then inadvertently or, you know, and and then everyone's kind of calmer now, you know? everyone's kind of calmer now, you know? everyone's kind of calmer now, you know? So I think that this is a very easy way So I think that this is a very easy way So I think that this is a very easy way to invite discussion about these small to invite discussion about these small to invite discussion about these small preventative maintenance things without preventative maintenance things without preventative maintenance things without turning it into a whole like because we turning it into a whole like because we turning it into a whole like because we again we just think that oh if I bring again we just think that oh if I bring again we just think that oh if I bring that up it's going to turn into a whole that up it's going to turn into a whole that up it's going to turn into a whole thing. It doesn't have to turn into a thing. It doesn't have to turn into a thing. It doesn't have to turn into a whole thing period. whole thing period. whole thing period. >> Yeah. Yeah, I think I asked that in part >> Yeah. Yeah, I think I asked that in part >> Yeah. Yeah, I think I asked that in part because I it's something that I I've because I it's something that I I've because I it's something that I I've like subtly noticed that when we were like subtly noticed that when we were like subtly noticed that when we were when we first met 7 years ago, we were when we first met 7 years ago, we were when we first met 7 years ago, we were much more patient. much more patient. much more patient. >> And I'm like, I probably need to have a >> And I'm like, I probably need to have a >> And I'm like, I probably need to have a conversation about returning to being conversation about returning to being conversation about returning to being more patient when we're trying to solve more patient when we're trying to solve more patient when we're trying to solve problems. We kind of like rush through problems. We kind of like rush through problems. We kind of like rush through them now. And I just I'm like, oh, you them now. And I just I'm like, oh, you them now. And I just I'm like, oh, you play this forward. play this forward. play this forward. >> You play this forward a decade or two >> You play this forward a decade or two >> You play this forward a decade or two decades. I'm like, damn, we're really decades. I'm like, damn, we're really decades. I'm like, damn, we're really not going to be great at solving not going to be great at solving not going to be great at solving problems if we don't just like slow down problems if we don't just like slow down problems if we don't just like slow down with them. Yeah. And with them. Yeah. And with them. Yeah. And >> a lot of that just means like listening >> a lot of that just means like listening >> a lot of that just means like listening to the other person's point of view a to the other person's point of view a to the other person's point of view a bit bit more intently. bit bit more intently. bit bit more intently. >> Yeah. And that's hard. That's hard >> Yeah. And that's hard. That's hard >> Yeah. And that's hard. That's hard because you know your your brain moves because you know your your brain moves because you know your your brain moves quickly. Like it's something I struggle quickly. Like it's something I struggle quickly. Like it's something I struggle with in relationship for sure. Like any with in relationship for sure. Like any with in relationship for sure. Like any kind of relationship is I'm very like kind of relationship is I'm very like kind of relationship is I'm very like all right, come on. We got to land this all right, come on. We got to land this all right, come on. We got to land this plane. Like let's go. Like skip to the plane. Like let's go. Like skip to the plane. Like let's go. Like skip to the end. Time is money. Like what are we end. Time is money. Like what are we end. Time is money. Like what are we what are we doing? Where are we going what are we doing? Where are we going what are we doing? Where are we going with this? Like and I I'm terrible at with this? Like and I I'm terrible at with this? Like and I I'm terrible at it. I interrupt people constantly. Like it. I interrupt people constantly. Like it. I interrupt people constantly. Like I'm I'm not good at that. And it's I'm I'm not good at that. And it's I'm I'm not good at that. And it's something I'm working on because I I I something I'm working on because I I I something I'm working on because I I I think I know what they have to say next. think I know what they have to say next. think I know what they have to say next. And I'm wrong a lot of the time, And I'm wrong a lot of the time, And I'm wrong a lot of the time, especially in relationship, I'm wrong. especially in relationship, I'm wrong. especially in relationship, I'm wrong. Like it's not a popular opinion to say Like it's not a popular opinion to say Like it's not a popular opinion to say that men and women are different, but that men and women are different, but that men and women are different, but men and women are different. And and and men and women are different. And and and men and women are different. And and and I don't say that to say one is superior I don't say that to say one is superior I don't say that to say one is superior and one is inferior. I say that to say and one is inferior. I say that to say and one is inferior. I say that to say that we're different. We we navigate that we're different. We we navigate that we're different. We we navigate things differently. We experience life things differently. We experience life things differently. We experience life differently. We're treated differently differently. We're treated differently differently. We're treated differently from a societal standpoint. We've had from a societal standpoint. We've had from a societal standpoint. We've had different life experiences and I different life experiences and I different life experiences and I genuinely believe that it would be very genuinely believe that it would be very genuinely believe that it would be very valuable for us in relationship to to valuable for us in relationship to to valuable for us in relationship to to sort of think, hey, I don't really know sort of think, hey, I don't really know sort of think, hey, I don't really know everything about how this person is everything about how this person is everything about how this person is wired. It took me fully wired. It took me fully wired. It took me fully 40 some odd years, if not 50, to figure 40 some odd years, if not 50, to figure 40 some odd years, if not 50, to figure out that if I'm in a romantic out that if I'm in a romantic out that if I'm in a romantic relationship with a woman and she comes relationship with a woman and she comes relationship with a woman and she comes home and starts telling me about home and starts telling me about home and starts telling me about something that's upsetting to her, that something that's upsetting to her, that something that's upsetting to her, that she doesn't want what my male friends she doesn't want what my male friends she doesn't want what my male friends want. Like if I called a buddy of mine, want. Like if I called a buddy of mine, want. Like if I called a buddy of mine, if I called you, I've called you before. if I called you, I've called you before. if I called you, I've called you before. If I called you and I said, "Stephen, If I called you and I said, "Stephen, If I called you and I said, "Stephen, I'm having this problem, man. I'm I'm having this problem, man. I'm I'm having this problem, man. I'm dealing with one of my sons and he's dealing with one of my sons and he's dealing with one of my sons and he's doing XYZ." I ex if you went, "That must doing XYZ." I ex if you went, "That must doing XYZ." I ex if you went, "That must be very hard, Jim. I'd be like, "Yes, it be very hard, Jim. I'd be like, "Yes, it be very hard, Jim. I'd be like, "Yes, it is, Stephen. That's why I called you. Do is, Stephen. That's why I called you. Do is, Stephen. That's why I called you. Do you have any suggestions? Like, what do you have any suggestions? Like, what do you have any suggestions? Like, what do you think I should do here? Like, you're you think I should do here? Like, you're you think I should do here? Like, you're a smart guy. I called you cuz I wanted a smart guy. I called you cuz I wanted a smart guy. I called you cuz I wanted you to help me." Very often, that is the you to help me." Very often, that is the you to help me." Very often, that is the opposite. Most women want you to hear opposite. Most women want you to hear opposite. Most women want you to hear them. Give them some support. You guys them. Give them some support. You guys them. Give them some support. You guys can have this conversation. A couple can can have this conversation. A couple can can have this conversation. A couple can have this conversation. You can say, have this conversation. You can say, have this conversation. You can say, "Hey, listen. right now in this moment, "Hey, listen. right now in this moment, "Hey, listen. right now in this moment, we're not you're not coming to me with a we're not you're not coming to me with a we're not you're not coming to me with a problem. But when you come to me with a problem. But when you come to me with a problem. But when you come to me with a problem, my natural proclivity is to problem, my natural proclivity is to problem, my natural proclivity is to start throwing solutions. And I've I've start throwing solutions. And I've I've start throwing solutions. And I've I've learned or I I heard Stexton say on learned or I I heard Stexton say on learned or I I heard Stexton say on Steven's show that, you know, maybe Steven's show that, you know, maybe Steven's show that, you know, maybe that's not the best way. Do you find that's not the best way. Do you find that's not the best way. Do you find that's true? Like, do you want me to that's true? Like, do you want me to that's true? Like, do you want me to maybe like when you say these things, maybe like when you say these things, maybe like when you say these things, could I because again, this is a job. I could I because again, this is a job. I could I because again, this is a job. I want to be good at this job. Why Why is want to be good at this job. Why Why is want to be good at this job. Why Why is it wrong for me to ask you how to how it wrong for me to ask you how to how it wrong for me to ask you how to how can I be better at this job? I found it can I be better at this job? I found it can I be better at this job? I found it really useful to state explicitly to my really useful to state explicitly to my really useful to state explicitly to my fiance what my needs are in those fiance what my needs are in those fiance what my needs are in those situations. And again, it didn't come situations. And again, it didn't come situations. And again, it didn't come naturally to her and vice versa. Like it naturally to her and vice versa. Like it naturally to her and vice versa. Like it didn't what she needs from me in those didn't what she needs from me in those didn't what she needs from me in those situations situations situations is the opposite of what I need from her is the opposite of what I need from her is the opposite of what I need from her in those situations. I'm thinking in those situations. I'm thinking in those situations. I'm thinking particularly when she's like going particularly when she's like going particularly when she's like going through something and she's struggling through something and she's struggling through something and she's struggling with something. She wants me to with something. She wants me to with something. She wants me to be be present and she be be present and she be be present and she um often wants like some advice on it um often wants like some advice on it um often wants like some advice on it and she and her advice is like the opposite of and her advice is like the opposite of mine often and in the inverse when I'm mine often and in the inverse when I'm mine often and in the inverse when I'm going through those situations going through those situations going through those situations I actually I actually I actually don't want to talk about it at all. don't want to talk about it at all. don't want to talk about it at all. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I just wanted to be there. >> I just wanted to be there. >> I just wanted to be there. >> Yeah. Yeah. But please, >> Yeah. Yeah. But please, >> Yeah. Yeah. But please, >> she wants to talk about I don't want to >> she wants to talk about I don't want to >> she wants to talk about I don't want to talk about it. talk about it. talk about it. >> But what but what would be wrong with >> But what but what would be wrong with >> But what but what would be wrong with saying in that moment? saying in that moment? saying in that moment? I've got a menu. I've got a menu. I've got a menu. I've got a menu for you. Can you tell me I've got a menu for you. Can you tell me I've got a menu for you. Can you tell me which one you want? Cuz just like just which one you want? Cuz just like just which one you want? Cuz just like just like you said, you're hungry. And I like you said, you're hungry. And I like you said, you're hungry. And I said, "What are you hungry for? Do you said, "What are you hungry for? Do you said, "What are you hungry for? Do you want sushi? Do you want me to make you want sushi? Do you want me to make you want sushi? Do you want me to make you something? Do you want some cheese something? Do you want some cheese something? Do you want some cheese toast? Do you want us to go out toast? Do you want us to go out toast? Do you want us to go out someplace and we can get burgers? What someplace and we can get burgers? What someplace and we can get burgers? What is it you want?" Right? Couldn't you is it you want?" Right? Couldn't you is it you want?" Right? Couldn't you just say, "Hey, I've got a menu. I can just say, "Hey, I've got a menu. I can just say, "Hey, I've got a menu. I can just listen and tell you I love you and just listen and tell you I love you and just listen and tell you I love you and just be here. I can give you some just be here. I can give you some just be here. I can give you some solutions and and how I might handle the solutions and and how I might handle the solutions and and how I might handle the problem. I can try to distract you and problem. I can try to distract you and problem. I can try to distract you and tell you a funny story about something tell you a funny story about something tell you a funny story about something that happened to me today or I can pick that happened to me today or I can pick that happened to me today or I can pick you up and tickle you. We can go in the you up and tickle you. We can go in the you up and tickle you. We can go in the other room and roll around in the sheets other room and roll around in the sheets other room and roll around in the sheets for a little while and take your mind for a little while and take your mind for a little while and take your mind off it and then we can figure out which off it and then we can figure out which off it and then we can figure out which of the other options you might want. We of the other options you might want. We of the other options you might want. We can go for a walk together and we can can go for a walk together and we can can go for a walk together and we can talk about it or not talk about it. What talk about it or not talk about it. What talk about it or not talk about it. What would you like on the menu? Because would you like on the menu? Because would you like on the menu? Because that's I'm serving all of those things that's I'm serving all of those things that's I'm serving all of those things for you. Which one would you like? And for you. Which one would you like? And for you. Which one would you like? And the worst thing she could say is, "I the worst thing she could say is, "I the worst thing she could say is, "I don't know." And you go, "Okay, then I'm don't know." And you go, "Okay, then I'm don't know." And you go, "Okay, then I'm going to pick one. I'm going to pick going to pick one. I'm going to pick going to pick one. I'm going to pick one. And if it feels good, great. And if one. And if it feels good, great. And if one. And if it feels good, great. And if it doesn't, you'll tell me, okay? And I it doesn't, you'll tell me, okay? And I it doesn't, you'll tell me, okay? And I won't be offended." Like again, what' won't be offended." Like again, what' won't be offended." Like again, what' that take, Stephen? 30 seconds. 30 that take, Stephen? 30 seconds. 30 that take, Stephen? 30 seconds. 30 seconds. Throw that out there. Like seconds. Throw that out there. Like seconds. Throw that out there. Like that. That's instead of just blindly that. That's instead of just blindly that. That's instead of just blindly throwing darts at the target, not throwing darts at the target, not throwing darts at the target, not knowing where the target is. knowing where the target is. knowing where the target is. >> If you had to give everybody listening >> If you had to give everybody listening >> If you had to give everybody listening one relationship ritual that you would one relationship ritual that you would one relationship ritual that you would think would most increase the think would most increase the think would most increase the probability that they stay together, probability that they stay together, probability that they stay together, stay in love. stay in love. stay in love. >> What would that relationship ritual be? >> What would that relationship ritual be? >> What would that relationship ritual be? >> I think that once a week you should make >> I think that once a week you should make >> I think that once a week you should make a specific task of telling your partner a specific task of telling your partner a specific task of telling your partner three things that you really like about three things that you really like about three things that you really like about them. them. them. And every week it should be something And every week it should be something And every week it should be something different. I think you should tell your different. I think you should tell your different. I think you should tell your partner if you really want to want to partner if you really want to want to partner if you really want to want to take the advanced edition of this. If take the advanced edition of this. If take the advanced edition of this. If you want to turn it from a 30- secondond you want to turn it from a 30- secondond you want to turn it from a 30- secondond task into like a whole five minutes that task into like a whole five minutes that task into like a whole five minutes that you devote to your relationship, you you devote to your relationship, you you devote to your relationship, you know, I feel about relationship know, I feel about relationship know, I feel about relationship maintenance the way that if you've ever maintenance the way that if you've ever maintenance the way that if you've ever heard the story, I think the Daly Lama heard the story, I think the Daly Lama heard the story, I think the Daly Lama is the one credited with saying it. is the one credited with saying it. is the one credited with saying it. That's that a high high-end executive, That's that a high high-end executive, That's that a high high-end executive, you know, paid a colossal amount of you know, paid a colossal amount of you know, paid a colossal amount of money to have a private audience with money to have a private audience with money to have a private audience with the Daly Lama. And the Daly Lama said to the Daly Lama. And the Daly Lama said to the Daly Lama. And the Daly Lama said to him, you know, um, if you're searching him, you know, um, if you're searching him, you know, um, if you're searching for inner peace, you should meditate for for inner peace, you should meditate for for inner peace, you should meditate for 15 minutes a day. And the executive 15 minutes a day. And the executive 15 minutes a day. And the executive said, I don't have 15 minutes a day to said, I don't have 15 minutes a day to said, I don't have 15 minutes a day to meditate. He said, then you should meditate. He said, then you should meditate. He said, then you should meditate for an hour a day. I feel the meditate for an hour a day. I feel the meditate for an hour a day. I feel the same way. If you don't have five minutes same way. If you don't have five minutes same way. If you don't have five minutes a week to devote to your spouse or a week to devote to your spouse or a week to devote to your spouse or partner, then you're going to need partner, then you're going to need partner, then you're going to need hours. I think you should actually set hours. I think you should actually set hours. I think you should actually set aside hours. Like five minutes a week, I aside hours. Like five minutes a week, I aside hours. Like five minutes a week, I would suggest the following exact s just would suggest the following exact s just would suggest the following exact s just systematic basic thing. This is what my systematic basic thing. This is what my systematic basic thing. This is what my next book is about. out. It's about a next book is about. out. It's about a next book is about. out. It's about a systematic approach to being good at systematic approach to being good at systematic approach to being good at love. And the idea is love. And the idea is love. And the idea is once a week, I think here's the advanced once a week, I think here's the advanced once a week, I think here's the advanced version, but minimum just write down, version, but minimum just write down, version, but minimum just write down, send an email, send a text, whatever it send an email, send a text, whatever it send an email, send a text, whatever it is, tell your partner three things that is, tell your partner three things that is, tell your partner three things that you love about them. you love about them. you love about them. The advanced version is tell your The advanced version is tell your The advanced version is tell your partner three things you love about partner three things you love about partner three things you love about them. Tell them three times this week them. Tell them three times this week them. Tell them three times this week that they made you feel loved. Here's that they made you feel loved. Here's that they made you feel loved. Here's three things you did this week that made three things you did this week that made three things you did this week that made me feel loved. Like here's three. When me feel loved. Like here's three. When me feel loved. Like here's three. When you sent me that message and said that you sent me that message and said that you sent me that message and said that made me feel so soft, that made me feel made me feel so soft, that made me feel made me feel so soft, that made me feel very loved. Like whatever it is, I'm very loved. Like whatever it is, I'm very loved. Like whatever it is, I'm sure you could find off the top of your sure you could find off the top of your sure you could find off the top of your head three things that she did this week head three things that she did this week head three things that she did this week that made you feel loved. And it's only that made you feel loved. And it's only that made you feel loved. And it's only Monday. Monday. Monday. >> People at home are in relationships >> People at home are in relationships >> People at home are in relationships right now. They're hearing you say that right now. They're hearing you say that right now. They're hearing you say that and some of them are still not going to and some of them are still not going to and some of them are still not going to do it. Why do you think they're not do it. Why do you think they're not do it. Why do you think they're not going to do it? Like what is that mental going to do it? Like what is that mental going to do it? Like what is that mental conversation they're having where they conversation they're having where they conversation they're having where they go? go? go? >> I think we're I Well, I think we're I >> I think we're I Well, I think we're I >> I think we're I Well, I think we're I think they think it's pointless. I think think they think it's pointless. I think think they think it's pointless. I think they they might be at a point in their they they might be at a point in their they they might be at a point in their relationship where it feels like what relationship where it feels like what relationship where it feels like what would be the point we're so far gone it would be the point we're so far gone it would be the point we're so far gone it wouldn't help. I think more than wouldn't help. I think more than wouldn't help. I think more than anything my my real feeling on this the anything my my real feeling on this the anything my my real feeling on this the secret that I don't think people want to secret that I don't think people want to secret that I don't think people want to say out loud say out loud say out loud I think we're terrified. I think we're I think we're terrified. I think we're I think we're terrified. I think we're terrified. And I think what we're terrified. And I think what we're terrified. And I think what we're terrified of is not terrified of is not terrified of is not is not the future of our relationship. I is not the future of our relationship. I is not the future of our relationship. I think what we're terrified of is that we think what we're terrified of is that we think what we're terrified of is that we we feel like we're not worthy of love. I we feel like we're not worthy of love. I we feel like we're not worthy of love. I think it's most people's fundamental think it's most people's fundamental think it's most people's fundamental terror. I think most people's terror. I think most people's terror. I think most people's fundamental fear is that if you knew me, fundamental fear is that if you knew me, fundamental fear is that if you knew me, you wouldn't love me. If you could see you wouldn't love me. If you could see you wouldn't love me. If you could see me, the real me, like the me that's in me, the real me, like the me that's in me, the real me, like the me that's in here, all the weakness, all the fear, here, all the weakness, all the fear, here, all the weakness, all the fear, all the horrible selfish thoughts, all all the horrible selfish thoughts, all all the horrible selfish thoughts, all the perversity, all the all the darkest the perversity, all the all the darkest the perversity, all the all the darkest things that are inside of me and every things that are inside of me and every things that are inside of me and every single one of us that if you could if single one of us that if you could if single one of us that if you could if you saw that, you couldn't possibly love you saw that, you couldn't possibly love you saw that, you couldn't possibly love me. and me. and me. and the feeling that comes with that which the feeling that comes with that which the feeling that comes with that which is so you love the character I'm playing is so you love the character I'm playing is so you love the character I'm playing that's not showing you all those things. that's not showing you all those things. that's not showing you all those things. I'm just I'm just showing you the best I'm just I'm just showing you the best I'm just I'm just showing you the best parts of myself. If you saw the real me, parts of myself. If you saw the real me, parts of myself. If you saw the real me, you wouldn't really love me. I think our you wouldn't really love me. I think our you wouldn't really love me. I think our greatest fear is that we're not worthy greatest fear is that we're not worthy greatest fear is that we're not worthy of love. And I think that there's a part of love. And I think that there's a part of love. And I think that there's a part of us that's afraid to like poke at what of us that's afraid to like poke at what of us that's afraid to like poke at what do you love about me? What do I love do you love about me? What do I love do you love about me? What do I love about you? How how what am I getting about you? How how what am I getting about you? How how what am I getting wrong? Like again, like finishing that wrong? Like again, like finishing that wrong? Like again, like finishing that exercise, exercise, exercise, you know, here's some things. Here's you know, here's some things. Here's you know, here's some things. Here's three things I love about you. Here's three things I love about you. Here's three things I love about you. Here's three things you did this week that made three things you did this week that made three things you did this week that made me feel loved. Here's three things I me feel loved. Here's three things I me feel loved. Here's three things I could have done better. Or tell me three could have done better. Or tell me three could have done better. Or tell me three things I could have done better. Or tell things I could have done better. Or tell things I could have done better. Or tell your partner three things they could your partner three things they could your partner three things they could have done better. And then if you want have done better. And then if you want have done better. And then if you want to have a fun one thrown in there, cuz I to have a fun one thrown in there, cuz I to have a fun one thrown in there, cuz I think you should end on fun stuff, think you should end on fun stuff, think you should end on fun stuff, here's three things you did this week here's three things you did this week here's three things you did this week that made me want to have sex with you. that made me want to have sex with you. that made me want to have sex with you. >> I guess some people would >> I guess some people would >> I guess some people would are listening right now and they're are listening right now and they're are listening right now and they're thinking, well, you know, I'm I'm dating thinking, well, you know, I'm I'm dating thinking, well, you know, I'm I'm dating Barry or they think I'm dating Joanne Barry or they think I'm dating Joanne Barry or they think I'm dating Joanne and she is she is not verbally intimate and she is she is not verbally intimate and she is she is not verbally intimate in this way. She would, if I suggested in this way. She would, if I suggested in this way. She would, if I suggested this to her, this to her, this to her, >> write it down. Don't do it. You don't >> write it down. Don't do it. You don't >> write it down. Don't do it. You don't have to do it verbally. I think verbally have to do it verbally. I think verbally have to do it verbally. I think verbally is too much pressure on people. But but is too much pressure on people. But but is too much pressure on people. But but even written down, if I told Dave that even written down, if I told Dave that even written down, if I told Dave that we're going to start writing these notes we're going to start writing these notes we're going to start writing these notes to each other about three things I love, to each other about three things I love, to each other about three things I love, he's going to cringe and he's he's going to cringe and he's he's going to cringe and he's >> [ __ ] [ __ ] Honestly, really, >> [ __ ] [ __ ] Honestly, really, >> [ __ ] [ __ ] Honestly, really, that's that's too hard. It's too much of that's that's too hard. It's too much of that's that's too hard. It's too much of an ask. Like Dave, I don't care what an ask. Like Dave, I don't care what an ask. Like Dave, I don't care what Dave does for a living. Dave could be a Dave does for a living. Dave could be a Dave does for a living. Dave could be a ditch digger for a living who's not ditch digger for a living who's not ditch digger for a living who's not articulate in any way. Dave is moving in articulate in any way. Dave is moving in articulate in any way. Dave is moving in with you. Dave married you. Dave went with you. Dave married you. Dave went with you. Dave married you. Dave went out and put his money on the counter and out and put his money on the counter and out and put his money on the counter and bought a ring. Dave Dave can't name bought a ring. Dave Dave can't name bought a ring. Dave Dave can't name three things he likes about you. Really, three things he likes about you. Really, three things he likes about you. Really, Dave? Is that a big ask? Is that hard, Dave? Is that a big ask? Is that hard, Dave? Is that a big ask? Is that hard, Dave? Like, come on. That I absolutely Dave? Like, come on. That I absolutely Dave? Like, come on. That I absolutely call [ __ ] on that. Maybe he doesn't call [ __ ] on that. Maybe he doesn't call [ __ ] on that. Maybe he doesn't want to. Okay, that's a different want to. Okay, that's a different want to. Okay, that's a different conversation. Why don't you want to? conversation. Why don't you want to? conversation. Why don't you want to? Why? What's uncomfortable about that for Why? What's uncomfortable about that for Why? What's uncomfortable about that for you? you? you? >> It is uncomfortable for some people, >> It is uncomfortable for some people, >> It is uncomfortable for some people, isn't it? isn't it? isn't it? >> Yeah, it's very uncomfortable for some >> Yeah, it's very uncomfortable for some >> Yeah, it's very uncomfortable for some people. people. people. >> It's quite interesting that you could be >> It's quite interesting that you could be >> It's quite interesting that you could be in a loving relationship with someone, in a loving relationship with someone, in a loving relationship with someone, but also be at some deeper level scared but also be at some deeper level scared but also be at some deeper level scared of intimacy. And I'll be honest, because of intimacy. And I'll be honest, because of intimacy. And I'll be honest, because it's just me and you, nobody's it's just me and you, nobody's it's just me and you, nobody's listening. listening. listening. >> Sure. Of course. >> Sure. Of course. >> Sure. Of course. >> I think at some client privilege. >> I think at some client privilege. >> I think at some client privilege. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. [laughter] I think at some level I've always been I think at some level I've always been I think at some level I've always been scared of intimacy. It makes it sound scared of intimacy. It makes it sound scared of intimacy. It makes it sound more conscious than it is, more conscious than it is, more conscious than it is, >> but at some deeper level I've always >> but at some deeper level I've always >> but at some deeper level I've always been, I don't know, a bit disconnected been, I don't know, a bit disconnected been, I don't know, a bit disconnected intimately when it comes to like intimately when it comes to like intimately when it comes to like uh being able to articulate uh being able to articulate uh being able to articulate >> these things. We keep it simple. That >> these things. We keep it simple. That >> these things. We keep it simple. That that's why I want to keep that simple. I that's why I want to keep that simple. I that's why I want to keep that simple. I didn't say what is what is your love for didn't say what is what is your love for didn't say what is what is your love for me rooted in and what is the nature of me rooted in and what is the nature of me rooted in and what is the nature of our connection and how does it fit into our connection and how does it fit into our connection and how does it fit into the broader context like I had a very the broader context like I had a very the broader context like I had a very challenging relationship with my mother challenging relationship with my mother challenging relationship with my mother growing up and I feel like you fill some growing up and I feel like you fill some growing up and I feel like you fill some of the wounds that guys we don't need of the wounds that guys we don't need of the wounds that guys we don't need like Sigman Freud doesn't have to show like Sigman Freud doesn't have to show like Sigman Freud doesn't have to show up in the relationship up in the relationship up in the relationship what are three we could do it right now what are three we could do it right now what are three we could do it right now in this relationship what are three in this relationship what are three in this relationship what are three things I like about you what are three things I like about you what are three things I like about you what are three experiences you and I have had with each experiences you and I have had with each experiences you and I have had with each other that made each other laugh. Like other that made each other laugh. Like other that made each other laugh. Like we have a friendship. Like what a joy we have a friendship. Like what a joy we have a friendship. Like what a joy that is by the way. Like what a joy it that is by the way. Like what a joy it that is by the way. Like what a joy it is to sit across from someone and say, is to sit across from someone and say, is to sit across from someone and say, "You know what I like about you?" [ __ ] "You know what I like about you?" [ __ ] "You know what I like about you?" [ __ ] man. I I want to hear that list. Like man. I I want to hear that list. Like man. I I want to hear that list. Like that's lovely. that's lovely. that's lovely. >> Do you think the whole idea of people >> Do you think the whole idea of people >> Do you think the whole idea of people being avoidant and sort of anxious? You being avoidant and sort of anxious? You being avoidant and sort of anxious? You know, this attachment style and stuff. know, this attachment style and stuff. know, this attachment style and stuff. Do is that does that stuff track to what Do is that does that stuff track to what Do is that does that stuff track to what you've seen? It does. But you know, I I you've seen? It does. But you know, I I you've seen? It does. But you know, I I also think too like I don't understand also think too like I don't understand also think too like I don't understand why we treat our connections to other why we treat our connections to other why we treat our connections to other people differently than things we are people differently than things we are people differently than things we are like exercise. Exercise. Okay. Haven't like exercise. Exercise. Okay. Haven't like exercise. Exercise. Okay. Haven't been to the gym in a while. You go to been to the gym in a while. You go to been to the gym in a while. You go to the gym, you're going to be sore. You're the gym, you're going to be sore. You're the gym, you're going to be sore. You're not going to be able to lift a lot. not going to be able to lift a lot. not going to be able to lift a lot. You're going to have to start slow. And You're going to have to start slow. And You're going to have to start slow. And for a couple days, you're going to be for a couple days, you're going to be for a couple days, you're going to be sore. And if you go, oo, I that was I sore. And if you go, oo, I that was I sore. And if you go, oo, I that was I was very sore after that. I'm not going was very sore after that. I'm not going was very sore after that. I'm not going back to the gym. Okay. then you're never back to the gym. Okay. then you're never back to the gym. Okay. then you're never going to get fit and you're never going going to get fit and you're never going going to get fit and you're never going to get past the sore stage. Cuz if you to get past the sore stage. Cuz if you to get past the sore stage. Cuz if you go, I'll wait a month and then I'll go go, I'll wait a month and then I'll go go, I'll wait a month and then I'll go back and do the same thing again. Guess back and do the same thing again. Guess back and do the same thing again. Guess what? You're just going to You have to what? You're just going to You have to what? You're just going to You have to move through the uncomfortable part to move through the uncomfortable part to move through the uncomfortable part to get to the part where it starts to feel get to the part where it starts to feel get to the part where it starts to feel really good and you're not as sore. really good and you're not as sore. really good and you're not as sore. Yeah, you'll sometimes still be sore. Yeah, you'll sometimes still be sore. Yeah, you'll sometimes still be sore. You pushed it a little too hard. Maybe You pushed it a little too hard. Maybe You pushed it a little too hard. Maybe worked out with Huberman that week. But worked out with Huberman that week. But worked out with Huberman that week. But you know what? Other weeks like you go, you know what? Other weeks like you go, you know what? Other weeks like you go, "Hey, I don't feel sore. I just feel "Hey, I don't feel sore. I just feel "Hey, I don't feel sore. I just feel strong and healthy." So, there's going strong and healthy." So, there's going strong and healthy." So, there's going to be moments where this might feel a to be moments where this might feel a to be moments where this might feel a little weird. It might feel a little little weird. It might feel a little little weird. It might feel a little awkward. It might feel a little sore. awkward. It might feel a little sore. awkward. It might feel a little sore. There might be weeks where that kind of There might be weeks where that kind of There might be weeks where that kind of a simple little practice feels a little a simple little practice feels a little a simple little practice feels a little like, oh, it feels a little like, oh, it feels a little like, oh, it feels a little uncomfortable. Or, yeah, the list of uncomfortable. Or, yeah, the list of uncomfortable. Or, yeah, the list of things that you did this week that made things that you did this week that made things that you did this week that made me feel loved, I have to reach for it. me feel loved, I have to reach for it. me feel loved, I have to reach for it. Okay, great. Isn't that little Okay, great. Isn't that little Okay, great. Isn't that little uncomfortable conversation that might uncomfortable conversation that might uncomfortable conversation that might prevent slippage? Isn't that little prevent slippage? Isn't that little prevent slippage? Isn't that little conversation better than the long-term conversation better than the long-term conversation better than the long-term impact of having a distance start impact of having a distance start impact of having a distance start growing between the two of you that growing between the two of you that growing between the two of you that eventually becomes impossible to eventually becomes impossible to eventually becomes impossible to navigate because it becomes a chasm navigate because it becomes a chasm navigate because it becomes a chasm between the two of you? between the two of you? between the two of you? >> Do you think the attachment style theory >> Do you think the attachment style theory >> Do you think the attachment style theory has any truth to it from what you've has any truth to it from what you've has any truth to it from what you've seen? Do you tend to find people are, seen? Do you tend to find people are, seen? Do you tend to find people are, you know, there's some people that are you know, there's some people that are you know, there's some people that are avoidant of intimacy, there's some avoidant of intimacy, there's some avoidant of intimacy, there's some people that are anxious, there's some people that are anxious, there's some people that are anxious, there's some people in the middle. people in the middle. people in the middle. >> Yeah. I mean, look, I I think that we're >> Yeah. I mean, look, I I think that we're >> Yeah. I mean, look, I I think that we're all creatures of our our upbringing, and all creatures of our our upbringing, and all creatures of our our upbringing, and I think a lot of our I'm amazed as a I think a lot of our I'm amazed as a I think a lot of our I'm amazed as a 53-year-old man in therapy how often 53-year-old man in therapy how often 53-year-old man in therapy how often a lot of my challenges are rooted in a lot of my challenges are rooted in a lot of my challenges are rooted in seven-year-old Jim. seven-year-old Jim. seven-year-old Jim. >> As a man that talks so much about love, >> As a man that talks so much about love, >> As a man that talks so much about love, I'm I'm curious to know what it is that I'm I'm curious to know what it is that I'm I'm curious to know what it is that you still struggle with in terms of, you you still struggle with in terms of, you you still struggle with in terms of, you know, because I I mean, I know from my know, because I I mean, I know from my know, because I I mean, I know from my own experience that I can know every I own experience that I can know every I own experience that I can know every I can know so much. I sit here with can know so much. I sit here with can know so much. I sit here with experts all day every day. It's not like experts all day every day. It's not like experts all day every day. It's not like I don't know this stuff. Yeah. I don't know this stuff. Yeah. I don't know this stuff. Yeah. >> But then putting it into practice is a >> But then putting it into practice is a >> But then putting it into practice is a different task. different task. different task. >> Yeah. I mean, it's why you'll never hear >> Yeah. I mean, it's why you'll never hear >> Yeah. I mean, it's why you'll never hear me use myself in my relationships as an me use myself in my relationships as an me use myself in my relationships as an example because I think you can be, you example because I think you can be, you example because I think you can be, you know, an incredibly skilled person at at know, an incredibly skilled person at at know, an incredibly skilled person at at the theory of something and then in its the theory of something and then in its the theory of something and then in its practical application, you have your own practical application, you have your own practical application, you have your own unique challenges. I think that using unique challenges. I think that using unique challenges. I think that using yourself as the example and your yourself as the example and your yourself as the example and your relationships as an example is dangerous relationships as an example is dangerous relationships as an example is dangerous because I I learned it in my own because I I learned it in my own because I I learned it in my own professional life when I had a very professional life when I had a very professional life when I had a very friendly divorce. And so my experience friendly divorce. And so my experience friendly divorce. And so my experience of divorce is the unique function of the of divorce is the unique function of the of divorce is the unique function of the constitution of my ex-wife and of me and constitution of my ex-wife and of me and constitution of my ex-wife and of me and of our unique circumstances that brought of our unique circumstances that brought of our unique circumstances that brought us where we are. So if I use that as the us where we are. So if I use that as the us where we are. So if I use that as the basis for my analysis of things, I think basis for my analysis of things, I think basis for my analysis of things, I think it's a very shallow sample size. I I it's a very shallow sample size. I I it's a very shallow sample size. I I know for me know for me know for me my greatest challenge in every my greatest challenge in every my greatest challenge in every relationship I've ever had, but even in relationship I've ever had, but even in relationship I've ever had, but even in my my professional relationships is my my professional relationships is my my professional relationships is acknowledging when I need help. I I acknowledging when I need help. I I acknowledging when I need help. I I think because I was raised in an think because I was raised in an think because I was raised in an environment where a lot of my needs environment where a lot of my needs environment where a lot of my needs weren't met. My father was a very weren't met. My father was a very weren't met. My father was a very serious alcoholic. My mother was trying serious alcoholic. My mother was trying serious alcoholic. My mother was trying to tend to a very serious alcoholic. to tend to a very serious alcoholic. to tend to a very serious alcoholic. when I needed something even from a very when I needed something even from a very when I needed something even from a very young age I I felt a lot of shame young age I I felt a lot of shame young age I I felt a lot of shame because it wasn't met with you know I'm because it wasn't met with you know I'm because it wasn't met with you know I'm hungry for breakfast like of course let hungry for breakfast like of course let hungry for breakfast like of course let me make you some breakfast it was met me make you some breakfast it was met me make you some breakfast it was met with what you can't make your own with what you can't make your own with what you can't make your own breakfast what's wrong with you and I breakfast what's wrong with you and I breakfast what's wrong with you and I [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] it was this guy yeah that was me that it was this guy yeah that was me that it was this guy yeah that was me that was me Bruce Lee poster and my was Chuck was me Bruce Lee poster and my was Chuck was me Bruce Lee poster and my was Chuck Norris up there um yeah this is probably Norris up there um yeah this is probably Norris up there um yeah this is probably like like like nine nine years old Okinawa and Goju Ryu nine nine years old Okinawa and Goju Ryu nine nine years old Okinawa and Goju Ryu karate. This is my room. Yeah, I was karate. This is my room. Yeah, I was karate. This is my room. Yeah, I was very um very lonely. I was really very um very lonely. I was really very um very lonely. I was really lonely. I was really sad. And lonely. I was really sad. And lonely. I was really sad. And um I loved martial arts because there um I loved martial arts because there um I loved martial arts because there was this was this was this very clear kind of masculinity on very clear kind of masculinity on very clear kind of masculinity on display, like this protective, strong display, like this protective, strong display, like this protective, strong superpower that you could build. superpower that you could build. superpower that you could build. >> It wasn't just gifted to you. like you >> It wasn't just gifted to you. like you >> It wasn't just gifted to you. like you didn't win the genetic lottery. Like you didn't win the genetic lottery. Like you didn't win the genetic lottery. Like you could through discipline and practice could through discipline and practice could through discipline and practice you could have this superpower that you could have this superpower that you could have this superpower that would make you feel safe and and that would make you feel safe and and that would make you feel safe and and that was what I obsessed about having. was what I obsessed about having. was what I obsessed about having. There's still a lot of that that person There's still a lot of that that person There's still a lot of that that person that young man still in me that is that young man still in me that is that young man still in me that is afraid to ask for help. I wanted to be afraid to ask for help. I wanted to be afraid to ask for help. I wanted to be someone who I could do do it all for someone who I could do do it all for someone who I could do do it all for myself. myself. myself. And I I I wish I could say looking back And I I I wish I could say looking back And I I I wish I could say looking back that it was because that was my natural that it was because that was my natural that it was because that was my natural proclivity is to want to be very proclivity is to want to be very proclivity is to want to be very self-actualized, but it really was that self-actualized, but it really was that self-actualized, but it really was that I was just absolutely sad and terrified I was just absolutely sad and terrified I was just absolutely sad and terrified that if I asked I'd be shamed if I said that if I asked I'd be shamed if I said that if I asked I'd be shamed if I said like could you be nice to me that the like could you be nice to me that the like could you be nice to me that the answer would be no. answer would be no. answer would be no. So I learned how to do everything like I So I learned how to do everything like I So I learned how to do everything like I cook amazingly well. like I'm good at a cook amazingly well. like I'm good at a cook amazingly well. like I'm good at a lot of things. I'm good at most things. lot of things. I'm good at most things. lot of things. I'm good at most things. Almost anything I put my mind to I'm Almost anything I put my mind to I'm Almost anything I put my mind to I'm good at. But it took me a lot of years good at. But it took me a lot of years good at. But it took me a lot of years to figure out that that although that to figure out that that although that to figure out that that although that has served me really well and it's built has served me really well and it's built has served me really well and it's built my career and the security and safety my career and the security and safety my career and the security and safety that came with being so successful and that came with being so successful and that came with being so successful and having financial success and you know having financial success and you know having financial success and you know now some level of notoriety. now some level of notoriety. now some level of notoriety. It took me a long time to figure out It took me a long time to figure out It took me a long time to figure out that that also has been the greatest that that also has been the greatest that that also has been the greatest obstacle in my life. And I it it I'm obstacle in my life. And I it it I'm obstacle in my life. And I it it I'm learning at the age of 53 that this guy learning at the age of 53 that this guy learning at the age of 53 that this guy is like he's still there and talking to is like he's still there and talking to is like he's still there and talking to me all the time. And I've learned now me all the time. And I've learned now me all the time. And I've learned now again through my own therapy to say to again through my own therapy to say to again through my own therapy to say to him like, "Oh, I hear you. Like, I hear him like, "Oh, I hear you. Like, I hear him like, "Oh, I hear you. Like, I hear you. I'm glad you're still there. Like, you. I'm glad you're still there. Like, you. I'm glad you're still there. Like, you don't have to be so scared anymore. I'm not I'm not I'm grateful to him. I'm grateful to him. I'm grateful to him. I think that's the best thing to aspire I think that's the best thing to aspire I think that's the best thing to aspire to is to make peace with that. Like I'm to is to make peace with that. Like I'm to is to make peace with that. Like I'm sure in you sure in you sure in you there is some little boy there is some little boy there is some little boy like hiding in some part of his room like hiding in some part of his room like hiding in some part of his room feeling very lost and very lonely. And I feeling very lost and very lonely. And I feeling very lost and very lonely. And I don't think there's anything wrong or don't think there's anything wrong or don't think there's anything wrong or weak or not masculine or not strong weak or not masculine or not strong weak or not masculine or not strong about acknowledging that that's still a about acknowledging that that's still a about acknowledging that that's still a voice in your head. voice in your head. voice in your head. And acknowledging that that voice in And acknowledging that that voice in And acknowledging that that voice in your head, like it it brought you where your head, like it it brought you where your head, like it it brought you where you are, but it also held you back in you are, but it also held you back in you are, but it also held you back in some ways. And you're never going to get some ways. And you're never going to get some ways. And you're never going to get rid of it. But maybe what you'll do is rid of it. But maybe what you'll do is rid of it. But maybe what you'll do is hear it for what it is, which is is it's hear it for what it is, which is is it's hear it for what it is, which is is it's a voice that was once there really a voice that was once there really a voice that was once there really important to save you. and it did a important to save you. and it did a important to save you. and it did a really good job of that. But that it's really good job of that. But that it's really good job of that. But that it's okay. Like it's okay. You don't have to okay. Like it's okay. You don't have to okay. Like it's okay. You don't have to beat that out of you, but you don't have beat that out of you, but you don't have beat that out of you, but you don't have to listen to it either. You don't have to listen to it either. You don't have to listen to it either. You don't have to let it drive the car. to let it drive the car. to let it drive the car. >> I was thinking as you were speaking >> I was thinking as you were speaking >> I was thinking as you were speaking about how those of us that Do you want about how those of us that Do you want about how those of us that Do you want me to take this foot back? me to take this foot back? me to take this foot back? >> Oh, but it's great. It's fun to see that >> Oh, but it's great. It's fun to see that >> Oh, but it's great. It's fun to see that guy. I It's funny that you you pulled guy. I It's funny that you you pulled guy. I It's funny that you you pulled that out. I have to tell you, I I It's a that out. I have to tell you, I I It's a that out. I have to tell you, I I It's a lovely It's a lovely thing. lovely It's a lovely thing. lovely It's a lovely thing. I think there's something to learn from I think there's something to learn from I think there's something to learn from those versions of oursel. those versions of oursel. those versions of oursel. Like if you hang out with kids, Like if you hang out with kids, Like if you hang out with kids, you you just see like you you just see like you you just see like >> they don't have all that hate in their >> they don't have all that hate in their >> they don't have all that hate in their heart. They hate naps. It's the end of heart. They hate naps. It's the end of heart. They hate naps. It's the end of the list. Like everything else like they the list. Like everything else like they the list. Like everything else like they just want to like love each other and just want to like love each other and just want to like love each other and hug each other and play. And when they hug each other and play. And when they hug each other and play. And when they like think they hurt someone, they stop like think they hurt someone, they stop like think they hurt someone, they stop and they're very scared cuz they didn't and they're very scared cuz they didn't and they're very scared cuz they didn't mean to. And then we turn into these mean to. And then we turn into these mean to. And then we turn into these creatures that are just attacking each creatures that are just attacking each creatures that are just attacking each other all the time, you know? And I other all the time, you know? And I other all the time, you know? And I think at the end of the day, like all we think at the end of the day, like all we think at the end of the day, like all we want is that. Like all we want is to want is that. Like all we want is to want is that. Like all we want is to just be like that warm, open version of just be like that warm, open version of just be like that warm, open version of ourselves before the world beat the [ __ ] ourselves before the world beat the [ __ ] ourselves before the world beat the [ __ ] out of us. And maybe that's what love's out of us. And maybe that's what love's out of us. And maybe that's what love's supposed to be. Like maybe what love is supposed to be. Like maybe what love is supposed to be. Like maybe what love is is an opportunity for us to like is an opportunity for us to like is an opportunity for us to like reconnect to that part of ourselves that reconnect to that part of ourselves that reconnect to that part of ourselves that was just so simple. Like I just want you was just so simple. Like I just want you was just so simple. Like I just want you to love me. I want to be loved by you. I to love me. I want to be loved by you. I to love me. I want to be loved by you. I want you to feel worthy of my love. I want you to feel worthy of my love. I want you to feel worthy of my love. I want to feel worthy of yours. Like, why want to feel worthy of yours. Like, why want to feel worthy of yours. Like, why does it have to be so hard? does it have to be so hard? does it have to be so hard? So many of us are pursuing passive forms So many of us are pursuing passive forms So many of us are pursuing passive forms of income and to build side businesses of income and to build side businesses of income and to build side businesses in order to help us cover our bills. And in order to help us cover our bills. And in order to help us cover our bills. And that opportunity is here with our that opportunity is here with our that opportunity is here with our sponsor Stan, a business that I co-own. sponsor Stan, a business that I co-own. sponsor Stan, a business that I co-own. 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Visit daretodream.stand. Visit daretodream.stand. Stan.store. Stan.store. Stan.store. There's a phase a lot of companies hit There's a phase a lot of companies hit There's a phase a lot of companies hit where they're no longer doing the most where they're no longer doing the most where they're no longer doing the most important thing, which is selling, and important thing, which is selling, and important thing, which is selling, and they get really bogged down with admin. they get really bogged down with admin. they get really bogged down with admin. And it's often something that creeps up And it's often something that creeps up And it's often something that creeps up slowly, and you don't really notice slowly, and you don't really notice slowly, and you don't really notice until it's happened. Slowly, momentum until it's happened. Slowly, momentum until it's happened. Slowly, momentum starts to leak out. This happened to us, starts to leak out. This happened to us, starts to leak out. This happened to us, and our sponsor, Pipe Drive, was a fix I and our sponsor, Pipe Drive, was a fix I and our sponsor, Pipe Drive, was a fix I came across 10 years ago. And ever came across 10 years ago. And ever came across 10 years ago. And ever since, my teams across my different since, my teams across my different since, my teams across my different companies have continued to use it. Pipe companies have continued to use it. Pipe companies have continued to use it. Pipe Drive is a simple but powerful sales CRM Drive is a simple but powerful sales CRM Drive is a simple but powerful sales CRM that gives you the visibility on any that gives you the visibility on any that gives you the visibility on any deals in your pipeline. It also deals in your pipeline. It also deals in your pipeline. It also automates a lot of the tedious, automates a lot of the tedious, automates a lot of the tedious, repetitive, and time-conuming parts of repetitive, and time-conuming parts of repetitive, and time-conuming parts of the sales process, which in turn saves the sales process, which in turn saves the sales process, which in turn saves you so many hours every single month, you so many hours every single month, you so many hours every single month, which means you can get back to selling. which means you can get back to selling. which means you can get back to selling. Making that early decision to switch to Making that early decision to switch to Making that early decision to switch to Pipe Drive was a real gamecher, and it's Pipe Drive was a real gamecher, and it's Pipe Drive was a real gamecher, and it's kept the right things front of mind. My kept the right things front of mind. My kept the right things front of mind. 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So, if something I've said resonates, head over to said resonates, head over to said resonates, head over to pipedive.com/ceeo pipedive.com/ceeo pipedive.com/ceeo where you can get a 30-day free trial. where you can get a 30-day free trial. where you can get a 30-day free trial. No credit card or payment required. No credit card or payment required. No credit card or payment required. I was thinking about how um there's a I was thinking about how um there's a I was thinking about how um there's a lot of people that at a very early age lot of people that at a very early age lot of people that at a very early age had to be very independent for whatever had to be very independent for whatever had to be very independent for whatever reason. Maybe a parent wasn't around. reason. Maybe a parent wasn't around. reason. Maybe a parent wasn't around. Maybe in your case, you know, I've Maybe in your case, you know, I've Maybe in your case, you know, I've heard, you know, doing this podcast, you heard, you know, doing this podcast, you heard, you know, doing this podcast, you get a bit of pattern recognition where get a bit of pattern recognition where get a bit of pattern recognition where you you sometimes think, oh, okay, so if you you sometimes think, oh, okay, so if you you sometimes think, oh, okay, so if one of the parents was an alcoholic, one of the parents was an alcoholic, one of the parents was an alcoholic, >> adult children of alcoholics were were I >> adult children of alcoholics were were I >> adult children of alcoholics were were I remember reading the book recovery, remember reading the book recovery, remember reading the book recovery, adult children of alcoholics, I stumbled adult children of alcoholics, I stumbled adult children of alcoholics, I stumbled on it when I was in college in a on it when I was in college in a on it when I was in college in a bookstore and I remember reading it and bookstore and I remember reading it and bookstore and I remember reading it and going, have they been reading my diary? going, have they been reading my diary? going, have they been reading my diary? Like what the holy because there was Like what the holy because there was Like what the holy because there was this profile of like one of the types this profile of like one of the types this profile of like one of the types one of the archetypes of adult children one of the archetypes of adult children one of the archetypes of adult children of alcoholics is that you yeah control of alcoholics is that you yeah control of alcoholics is that you yeah control control control control like wanting to control everything like wanting to control everything like wanting to control everything because life feels so chaotic when you because life feels so chaotic when you because life feels so chaotic when you live with an alcoholic. When the person live with an alcoholic. When the person live with an alcoholic. When the person who is supposed to be your primary who is supposed to be your primary who is supposed to be your primary caregiver and the primary mechanism for caregiver and the primary mechanism for caregiver and the primary mechanism for you to feel safe feels unpredictable and you to feel safe feels unpredictable and you to feel safe feels unpredictable and chaotic and that is that creates in you chaotic and that is that creates in you chaotic and that is that creates in you this constant sense of a heightened you this constant sense of a heightened you this constant sense of a heightened you know heightened sense of I need to hold know heightened sense of I need to hold know heightened sense of I need to hold on as tight as I can and also that drove on as tight as I can and also that drove on as tight as I can and also that drove you to be incredibly independent. you to be incredibly independent. you to be incredibly independent. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Independence and connection seem to be Independence and connection seem to be Independence and connection seem to be on like two ends of the spectrum. And I on like two ends of the spectrum. And I on like two ends of the spectrum. And I say this in part because I look at say this in part because I look at say this in part because I look at >> I look at all my friends that are very >> I look at all my friends that are very >> I look at all my friends that are very very very independent and I would say very very independent and I would say very very independent and I would say that they typically struggle the most to that they typically struggle the most to that they typically struggle the most to form relationships because they've kind form relationships because they've kind form relationships because they've kind of built their own of built their own of built their own >> castle with a moat. >> castle with a moat. >> castle with a moat. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And generally if we zoom out on this And generally if we zoom out on this And generally if we zoom out on this point of independence and dependency point of independence and dependency point of independence and dependency >> I would say that the narrative in >> I would say that the narrative in >> I would say that the narrative in society over the last I know 10 20 years society over the last I know 10 20 years society over the last I know 10 20 years or whatever has been or whatever has been or whatever has been >> pointed at glorifying independence and >> pointed at glorifying independence and >> pointed at glorifying independence and not dependency. Dependency is like not not dependency. Dependency is like not not dependency. Dependency is like not cool. It's like be your own boss start cool. It's like be your own boss start cool. It's like be your own boss start your own business down on your own two your own business down on your own two your own business down on your own two feet. feet. feet. >> Yeah. Yeah. I so I used to view >> Yeah. Yeah. I so I used to view >> Yeah. Yeah. I so I used to view I would say the defining characteristics I would say the defining characteristics I would say the defining characteristics of my 30s and 40s of my 30s and 40s of my 30s and 40s was the belief that there were two was the belief that there were two was the belief that there were two versions of Jim Sexton. versions of Jim Sexton. versions of Jim Sexton. One was the one that was the most One was the one that was the most One was the one that was the most forward- facing at that time which was forward- facing at that time which was forward- facing at that time which was lead pipe cruelty and mercenary lead pipe cruelty and mercenary lead pipe cruelty and mercenary sensibility. Like I'm I'm I'm going to sensibility. Like I'm I'm I'm going to sensibility. Like I'm I'm I'm going to do this job. I'm going to do it really do this job. I'm going to do it really do this job. I'm going to do it really well. I'm going to get better and better well. I'm going to get better and better well. I'm going to get better and better at it. I'm going to just take my skill at it. I'm going to just take my skill at it. I'm going to just take my skill set and weaponize it and that's who I'm set and weaponize it and that's who I'm set and weaponize it and that's who I'm going to be. And then there was this going to be. And then there was this going to be. And then there was this other part of me that was always there. other part of me that was always there. other part of me that was always there. I kind of stuffed it in the closet for a I kind of stuffed it in the closet for a I kind of stuffed it in the closet for a while that like gets misty eyed when I while that like gets misty eyed when I while that like gets misty eyed when I talk about love and cries when I think talk about love and cries when I think talk about love and cries when I think about dogs and, you know, watches Love about dogs and, you know, watches Love about dogs and, you know, watches Love on the Spectrum and can't make it on the Spectrum and can't make it on the Spectrum and can't make it through an episode without weeping three through an episode without weeping three through an episode without weeping three or four times. Like this very soft, or four times. Like this very soft, or four times. Like this very soft, gentle, loving, compassionate, gentle, loving, compassionate, gentle, loving, compassionate, empathetic, sensitive part of me. empathetic, sensitive part of me. empathetic, sensitive part of me. >> [snorts] >> [snorts] >> [snorts] >> And I felt like they were two waring >> And I felt like they were two waring >> And I felt like they were two waring forces. forces. forces. There were two versions of me. And the There were two versions of me. And the There were two versions of me. And the question was, how can I beat that soft question was, how can I beat that soft question was, how can I beat that soft little, you know, wuss out of me and be little, you know, wuss out of me and be little, you know, wuss out of me and be the final form, which is like the me the final form, which is like the me the final form, which is like the me that's a machine that can just do it that's a machine that can just do it that's a machine that can just do it like that can just do what needs to be like that can just do what needs to be like that can just do what needs to be done and do it in a way that nobody else done and do it in a way that nobody else done and do it in a way that nobody else can do. And I'm very blessed that I am can do. And I'm very blessed that I am can do. And I'm very blessed that I am in my line of work. what yoyo ma is in in my line of work. what yoyo ma is in in my line of work. what yoyo ma is in cello like in a courtroom cello like in a courtroom cello like in a courtroom I have a god-given talent and I remember I have a god-given talent and I remember I have a god-given talent and I remember thinking okay that's the final form of thinking okay that's the final form of thinking okay that's the final form of me is a master in the courtroom and and me is a master in the courtroom and and me is a master in the courtroom and and everything else is just what do I need everything else is just what do I need everything else is just what do I need to do to get there I remember my ex-wife to do to get there I remember my ex-wife to do to get there I remember my ex-wife saying to me you know you will never saying to me you know you will never saying to me you know you will never love any woman as much as you love the love any woman as much as you love the love any woman as much as you love the law like every woman who you ever meet law like every woman who you ever meet law like every woman who you ever meet for the rest of your life will be for the rest of your life will be for the rest of your life will be playing second fiddle to how much you playing second fiddle to how much you playing second fiddle to how much you love being in a courtroom. You're great love being in a courtroom. You're great love being in a courtroom. You're great in a courtroom and you have no idea what in a courtroom and you have no idea what in a courtroom and you have no idea what to do in your living room. Like in your to do in your living room. Like in your to do in your living room. Like in your living room, you're just totally living room, you're just totally living room, you're just totally paralyzed. Whereas in a courtroom, you paralyzed. Whereas in a courtroom, you paralyzed. Whereas in a courtroom, you know every it has why it has defined know every it has why it has defined know every it has why it has defined rules. It has a cadence. I know what the rules. It has a cadence. I know what the rules. It has a cadence. I know what the goal is. Like I know exact it's goal is. Like I know exact it's goal is. Like I know exact it's controlled chaos. I'm great at it. So controlled chaos. I'm great at it. So controlled chaos. I'm great at it. So there was a part of me that went, okay, there was a part of me that went, okay, there was a part of me that went, okay, there's this soft, warm, wonderful, there's this soft, warm, wonderful, there's this soft, warm, wonderful, lovely, empathetic side of me, and then lovely, empathetic side of me, and then lovely, empathetic side of me, and then there's this real successful, and that's there's this real successful, and that's there's this real successful, and that's the one that got me everywhere. That's the one that got me everywhere. That's the one that got me everywhere. That's the one that got me everything I have. the one that got me everything I have. the one that got me everything I have. So I have to figure out how to get rid So I have to figure out how to get rid So I have to figure out how to get rid of this one and keep this one. Like, of this one and keep this one. Like, of this one and keep this one. Like, and for my entire 30s and most of my and for my entire 30s and most of my and for my entire 30s and most of my 40s, that was my primary thing was 40s, that was my primary thing was 40s, that was my primary thing was trying to figure out how to get rid of trying to figure out how to get rid of trying to figure out how to get rid of that part of me. And no matter how that part of me. And no matter how that part of me. And no matter how loudly I blared 9-in nails on on on on loudly I blared 9-in nails on on on on loudly I blared 9-in nails on on on on my headphones and tried to become a my headphones and tried to become a my headphones and tried to become a machine, I couldn't get rid of that part machine, I couldn't get rid of that part machine, I couldn't get rid of that part of me. And then I came to realize, I of me. And then I came to realize, I of me. And then I came to realize, I think in part because of this work. I think in part because of this work. I think in part because of this work. I think because of like somehow I stumbled think because of like somehow I stumbled think because of like somehow I stumbled into into into being in a position where I end up being in a position where I end up being in a position where I end up talking about feelings a whole lot. And talking about feelings a whole lot. And talking about feelings a whole lot. And it's somehow I I I got brought in to it's somehow I I I got brought in to it's somehow I I I got brought in to have go here's this interesting divorce have go here's this interesting divorce have go here's this interesting divorce lawyer who's going to talk about divorce lawyer who's going to talk about divorce lawyer who's going to talk about divorce stuff and somehow ended up talking a lot stuff and somehow ended up talking a lot stuff and somehow ended up talking a lot about love and softness and warmth and about love and softness and warmth and about love and softness and warmth and compassion. compassion. compassion. >> I didn't think it somehow >> I didn't think it somehow >> I didn't think it somehow >> Yeah. No, exactly. And what I came to >> Yeah. No, exactly. And what I came to >> Yeah. No, exactly. And what I came to learn from that from from giving that learn from that from from giving that learn from that from from giving that voice voice voice is that there actually isn't two waring is that there actually isn't two waring is that there actually isn't two waring forces. It's two very authentic aspects forces. It's two very authentic aspects forces. It's two very authentic aspects of self that have to exist inside of me. of self that have to exist inside of me. of self that have to exist inside of me. And each one of them creates the other And each one of them creates the other And each one of them creates the other in some ways. Like I don't think I'd be in some ways. Like I don't think I'd be in some ways. Like I don't think I'd be anywhere near as good of a lawyer and anywhere near as good of a lawyer and anywhere near as good of a lawyer and courtroom advocate if I didn't have a courtroom advocate if I didn't have a courtroom advocate if I didn't have a tremendous sensitivity and empathy and tremendous sensitivity and empathy and tremendous sensitivity and empathy and couldn't put myself in the heads of the couldn't put myself in the heads of the couldn't put myself in the heads of the various people in the room. So I think various people in the room. So I think various people in the room. So I think that when we start to see what seems that when we start to see what seems that when we start to see what seems like opposite traits in us instead as like opposite traits in us instead as like opposite traits in us instead as authentic representations of aspects of authentic representations of aspects of authentic representations of aspects of who we are that we have to learn how to who we are that we have to learn how to who we are that we have to learn how to do let them dance, let them move do let them dance, let them move do let them dance, let them move together in some way. And there's times together in some way. And there's times together in some way. And there's times where this guy should take the lead. And where this guy should take the lead. And where this guy should take the lead. And there's times where that very focused there's times where that very focused there's times where that very focused self that you know is very self that you know is very self that you know is very missiondriven, that person should lead. missiondriven, that person should lead. missiondriven, that person should lead. And and for men in particular, like And and for men in particular, like And and for men in particular, like we've been taught a rigidity. Like the we've been taught a rigidity. Like the we've been taught a rigidity. Like the gender role for men has a tremendous gender role for men has a tremendous gender role for men has a tremendous rigidity. I mean, I grew up in a time rigidity. I mean, I grew up in a time rigidity. I mean, I grew up in a time where you either got to be Clint where you either got to be Clint where you either got to be Clint Eastwood or Richard Simmons. Those were Eastwood or Richard Simmons. Those were Eastwood or Richard Simmons. Those were your two choices. You either had to be, your two choices. You either had to be, your two choices. You either had to be, you know, like icy 100% or you had to you know, like icy 100% or you had to you know, like icy 100% or you had to be, you know, you could be warm and be, you know, you could be warm and be, you know, you could be warm and fuzzy, but then you were just not really fuzzy, but then you were just not really fuzzy, but then you were just not really masculine. And I just don't think that's masculine. And I just don't think that's masculine. And I just don't think that's the case. Like you look at like I've the case. Like you look at like I've the case. Like you look at like I've spent 20 years on the Brazilian spent 20 years on the Brazilian spent 20 years on the Brazilian jiu-jitsu mat. I have to tell you like jiu-jitsu mat. I have to tell you like jiu-jitsu mat. I have to tell you like there are some dudes could snap your there are some dudes could snap your there are some dudes could snap your neck with like any with their thumb and neck with like any with their thumb and neck with like any with their thumb and they're some of the warmest most lovely they're some of the warmest most lovely they're some of the warmest most lovely people because these are all authentic people because these are all authentic people because these are all authentic aspects of self. And to know that like aspects of self. And to know that like aspects of self. And to know that like the soft warm version of me feeding it, the soft warm version of me feeding it, the soft warm version of me feeding it, letting it spend some time letting it be letting it spend some time letting it be letting it spend some time letting it be in conversation, it it makes me better in conversation, it it makes me better in conversation, it it makes me better at the other part. It makes me more at the other part. It makes me more at the other part. It makes me more authentic. It makes me better at that authentic. It makes me better at that authentic. It makes me better at that part. And by the way, letting that part part. And by the way, letting that part part. And by the way, letting that part out, it hasn't done anything to diminish out, it hasn't done anything to diminish out, it hasn't done anything to diminish this part. So when you start to see it this part. So when you start to see it this part. So when you start to see it that way, I I really think that there's that way, I I really think that there's that way, I I really think that there's a tremendous a tremendous a tremendous broader menu of possibilities out there. broader menu of possibilities out there. broader menu of possibilities out there. I've got several friends in my life that I've got several friends in my life that I've got several friends in my life that have really struggled with relationships have really struggled with relationships have really struggled with relationships and love. And uh for all those people and love. And uh for all those people and love. And uh for all those people that have really really struggled in that have really really struggled in that have really really struggled in love and they look around at everybody love and they look around at everybody love and they look around at everybody else and everybody else seems to have else and everybody else seems to have else and everybody else seems to have worked it out or at least be working worked it out or at least be working worked it out or at least be working through a situation but they look at through a situation but they look at through a situation but they look at themselves and go, "It just doesn't work themselves and go, "It just doesn't work themselves and go, "It just doesn't work for me. What's going on? Why am I the for me. What's going on? Why am I the for me. What's going on? Why am I the only one in my friendship group that only one in my friendship group that only one in my friendship group that hasn't found love or isn't in a hasn't found love or isn't in a hasn't found love or isn't in a relationship?" And they kind of beat relationship?" And they kind of beat relationship?" And they kind of beat themselves up about it. I think that's a themselves up about it. I think that's a themselves up about it. I think that's a great starting point. Why is this great starting point. Why is this great starting point. Why is this happening to me? and start looking at happening to me? and start looking at happening to me? and start looking at when did it start happening and what's when did it start happening and what's when did it start happening and what's the consistent thread through all of it the consistent thread through all of it the consistent thread through all of it and are there people that I could ask and are there people that I could ask and are there people that I could ask that question of who know me and love me that question of who know me and love me that question of who know me and love me and would be willing to tell me honestly and would be willing to tell me honestly and would be willing to tell me honestly and if there aren't great what are some and if there aren't great what are some and if there aren't great what are some resources out there in terms of the resources out there in terms of the resources out there in terms of the wisdom of other people that might share wisdom of other people that might share wisdom of other people that might share that experience I think there's so many that experience I think there's so many that experience I think there's so many entry points to that conversation with entry points to that conversation with entry points to that conversation with yourself I think the start is to yourself I think the start is to yourself I think the start is to identify that yeah I'm drowning like identify that yeah I'm drowning like identify that yeah I'm drowning like what here's what the solution is not is what here's what the solution is not is what here's what the solution is not is to pretend everything's fine. And that's to pretend everything's fine. And that's to pretend everything's fine. And that's the ecosystem we've created. the ecosystem we've created. the ecosystem we've created. We're we're living our gag reel and We're we're living our gag reel and We're we're living our gag reel and watching everyone's greatest hits. And watching everyone's greatest hits. And watching everyone's greatest hits. And we're encouraged all day long to tell we're encouraged all day long to tell we're encouraged all day long to tell everyone how great we're doing and how everyone how great we're doing and how everyone how great we're doing and how we're crushing it and how great we feel we're crushing it and how great we feel we're crushing it and how great we feel and how focused we are. Because why? and how focused we are. Because why? and how focused we are. Because why? Because we're terrified that if we said, Because we're terrified that if we said, Because we're terrified that if we said, "I don't know. I feel like I'm drowning. "I don't know. I feel like I'm drowning. "I don't know. I feel like I'm drowning. I feel like I'm drowning sometimes. I I feel like I'm drowning sometimes. I I feel like I'm drowning sometimes. I have moments where I feel so put have moments where I feel so put have moments where I feel so put together and then I have moments where I together and then I have moments where I together and then I have moments where I think I'm drowning. And and by the way, think I'm drowning. And and by the way, think I'm drowning. And and by the way, when people have that kind of honesty, when people have that kind of honesty, when people have that kind of honesty, there's something so beautiful about it. there's something so beautiful about it. there's something so beautiful about it. Like I have to tell you, like one of the Like I have to tell you, like one of the Like I have to tell you, like one of the things that people say about me when I things that people say about me when I things that people say about me when I go, I don't understand why anything I'm go, I don't understand why anything I'm go, I don't understand why anything I'm saying resonates with anybody. People saying resonates with anybody. People saying resonates with anybody. People are like, "Dude, you're so real. It's so are like, "Dude, you're so real. It's so are like, "Dude, you're so real. It's so real. It's so blunt and honest and like real. It's so blunt and honest and like real. It's so blunt and honest and like real." This is it's in every one of us real." This is it's in every one of us real." This is it's in every one of us is that same realness, that same basic is that same realness, that same basic is that same realness, that same basic just all it is is just saying out loud just all it is is just saying out loud just all it is is just saying out loud like, "Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. like, "Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. like, "Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Like, I don't have it all figured out." Like, I don't have it all figured out." Like, I don't have it all figured out." AND THAT'S OKAY CUZ I HAVE SOME THINGS AND THAT'S OKAY CUZ I HAVE SOME THINGS AND THAT'S OKAY CUZ I HAVE SOME THINGS really figured out. So maybe if I've got really figured out. So maybe if I've got really figured out. So maybe if I've got these things really figured out and these things really figured out and these things really figured out and you've got these other things really you've got these other things really you've got these other things really figured out and we're just stop figured out and we're just stop figured out and we're just stop bullshitting each other for five minutes bullshitting each other for five minutes bullshitting each other for five minutes and instead go, you know, I'm doing and instead go, you know, I'm doing and instead go, you know, I'm doing great on this, but like this I feel like great on this, but like this I feel like great on this, but like this I feel like I'm a train wreck on. Like every high I'm a train wreck on. Like every high I'm a train wreck on. Like every high achieving friend I have, every celebrity achieving friend I have, every celebrity achieving friend I have, every celebrity friend I have, every per I have friends friend I have, every per I have friends friend I have, every per I have friends who people look at them and go, "Oh, who people look at them and go, "Oh, who people look at them and go, "Oh, dude, he is murdering it." Like you're dude, he is murdering it." Like you're dude, he is murdering it." Like you're my friend. People look at you, they go, my friend. People look at you, they go, my friend. People look at you, they go, "He's murdering it." There are aspects "He's murdering it." There are aspects "He's murdering it." There are aspects of your life that you're like, "I got to of your life that you're like, "I got to of your life that you're like, "I got to work on that." There's tons of aspects work on that." There's tons of aspects work on that." There's tons of aspects of my life where I go, I got to work on of my life where I go, I got to work on of my life where I go, I got to work on that. Like I I figured all these other that. Like I I figured all these other that. Like I I figured all these other things out, but I haven't figured that things out, but I haven't figured that things out, but I haven't figured that out yet. And you know what? It's so out yet. And you know what? It's so out yet. And you know what? It's so lovely to have that conversation. Like lovely to have that conversation. Like lovely to have that conversation. Like why why can't we just make some space why why can't we just make some space why why can't we just make some space for that all of us a little bit more? I for that all of us a little bit more? I for that all of us a little bit more? I don't think it's that hard. don't think it's that hard. don't think it's that hard. It's at least as important as our It's at least as important as our It's at least as important as our workout routine. It's at least as workout routine. It's at least as workout routine. It's at least as important as remembering someone's important as remembering someone's important as remembering someone's birthday. birthday. birthday. >> Yeah. I I I wonder why that I wonder why >> Yeah. I I I wonder why that I wonder why >> Yeah. I I I wonder why that I wonder why it is that we um [clears throat] there's it is that we um [clears throat] there's it is that we um [clears throat] there's so little space for us to work on our so little space for us to work on our so little space for us to work on our connection challenges connection challenges connection challenges these days. these days. these days. >> It hasn't been prioritized. We become >> It hasn't been prioritized. We become >> It hasn't been prioritized. We become what we behold. We prioritize what we've what we behold. We prioritize what we've what we behold. We prioritize what we've been told to prioritize. We've been told been told to prioritize. We've been told been told to prioritize. We've been told to prioritize conspicuous consumption. to prioritize conspicuous consumption. to prioritize conspicuous consumption. >> We've been taught that the measure of a >> We've been taught that the measure of a >> We've been taught that the measure of a person is is how much financial success person is is how much financial success person is is how much financial success they have. That's why I genuinely they have. That's why I genuinely they have. That's why I genuinely believe that if we continue to barrel believe that if we continue to barrel believe that if we continue to barrel along along along using this the metric of success being using this the metric of success being using this the metric of success being financial above all else really financial above all else really financial above all else really consumption, what we own, what we wear, consumption, what we own, what we wear, consumption, what we own, what we wear, what we have or how we look, right? as what we have or how we look, right? as what we have or how we look, right? as the priority, we're barreling towards the priority, we're barreling towards the priority, we're barreling towards nothing. Whereas if we were to change nothing. Whereas if we were to change nothing. Whereas if we were to change that and say, hey, like joy, peace, that and say, hey, like joy, peace, that and say, hey, like joy, peace, finding some peace within ourselves, finding some peace within ourselves, finding some peace within ourselves, finding some balance that feels right to finding some balance that feels right to finding some balance that feels right to us individually. us individually. us individually. >> I think that's a really good simple word >> I think that's a really good simple word >> I think that's a really good simple word which people don't think about enough which people don't think about enough which people don't think about enough when they're thinking about the KPIs of when they're thinking about the KPIs of when they're thinking about the KPIs of success in their life, which is how do I success in their life, which is how do I success in their life, which is how do I feel? And I think we've all grown up in feel? And I think we've all grown up in feel? And I think we've all grown up in different contexts learning to tune out different contexts learning to tune out different contexts learning to tune out of how I feel and in its place put how of how I feel and in its place put how of how I feel and in its place put how does the world feel about me as like the does the world feel about me as like the does the world feel about me as like the primary metric. And it's like I I was primary metric. And it's like I I was primary metric. And it's like I I was thinking the other day that actually, thinking the other day that actually, thinking the other day that actually, you know, we can go do all these you know, we can go do all these you know, we can go do all these podcasts and books and whatever else, podcasts and books and whatever else, podcasts and books and whatever else, but we were all born with this sort of but we were all born with this sort of but we were all born with this sort of internal compass that tells you every internal compass that tells you every internal compass that tells you every day how you feel, but like none of us day how you feel, but like none of us day how you feel, but like none of us tune into it. tune into it. tune into it. >> Yeah. Yeah. And actually the metric >> Yeah. Yeah. And actually the metric >> Yeah. Yeah. And actually the metric becomes like how many followers do you becomes like how many followers do you becomes like how many followers do you have? How rich are you? How have? How rich are you? How have? How rich are you? How >> it's beaten out of us by the world. Like >> it's beaten out of us by the world. Like >> it's beaten out of us by the world. Like I I I will tell you, you always get the I I I will tell you, you always get the I I I will tell you, you always get the most emotional stuff out of me, Stephen. most emotional stuff out of me, Stephen. most emotional stuff out of me, Stephen. I will tell you my most shameful moment I will tell you my most shameful moment I will tell you my most shameful moment as a parent. as a parent. as a parent. So I have two sons. They're 26 and 28. So I have two sons. They're 26 and 28. So I have two sons. They're 26 and 28. 28-year-old just got married in 28-year-old just got married in 28-year-old just got married in September. He's a lawyer. He's awesome. September. He's a lawyer. He's awesome. September. He's a lawyer. He's awesome. He must have been five or six. He must have been five or six. He must have been five or six. and something happened and something happened and something happened like and he was he started crying like like and he was he started crying like like and he was he started crying like someone hurt his feelings or something someone hurt his feelings or something someone hurt his feelings or something happened but it wasn't I don't know it happened but it wasn't I don't know it happened but it wasn't I don't know it wasn't that big of a deal like it it to wasn't that big of a deal like it it to wasn't that big of a deal like it it to me at the moment I mean I was in my 20s me at the moment I mean I was in my 20s me at the moment I mean I was in my 20s he was 24 when I I was 24 when he was he was 24 when I I was 24 when he was he was 24 when I I was 24 when he was born so yeah I was in my 20s and he was born so yeah I was in my 20s and he was born so yeah I was in my 20s and he was crying he was crying and like I wanted crying he was crying and like I wanted crying he was crying and like I wanted him to stop crying because it made me him to stop crying because it made me him to stop crying because it made me sad to see him cry like I love him so sad to see him cry like I love him so sad to see him cry like I love him so much like that I was like it made me so much like that I was like it made me so much like that I was like it made me so uncomfortable able to see him crying. uncomfortable able to see him crying. uncomfortable able to see him crying. And I remember I like I like grabbed And I remember I like I like grabbed And I remember I like I like grabbed him, not roughly, I grabbed him and I him, not roughly, I grabbed him and I him, not roughly, I grabbed him and I just looked at him and I was like, just looked at him and I was like, just looked at him and I was like, "Control yourself." I'm like, "Control "Control yourself." I'm like, "Control "Control yourself." I'm like, "Control yourself." I'm like, "Calm down and yourself." I'm like, "Calm down and yourself." I'm like, "Calm down and control yourself." control yourself." control yourself." And I remember like he he managed to do And I remember like he he managed to do And I remember like he he managed to do it. it. it. It's 20some years later. Like, and I I'm It's 20some years later. Like, and I I'm It's 20some years later. Like, and I I'm ashamed of that moment. because I understand what I was trying because I understand what I was trying to say to him. Like I was trying to say to say to him. Like I was trying to say to say to him. Like I was trying to say to him, I I don't want you to be in to him, I I don't want you to be in to him, I I don't want you to be in pain. Like I'm uncomfortable with your pain. Like I'm uncomfortable with your pain. Like I'm uncomfortable with your pain. I also wanted I wanted to say pain. I also wanted I wanted to say pain. I also wanted I wanted to say something to this guy probably which is something to this guy probably which is something to this guy probably which is like dude like the world's not going to like dude like the world's not going to like dude like the world's not going to be nice to you if it knows that you have be nice to you if it knows that you have be nice to you if it knows that you have all these feelings. Like you got to find all these feelings. Like you got to find all these feelings. Like you got to find a way to hide it. There's so much going a way to hide it. There's so much going a way to hide it. There's so much going on in that moment. But like I look back on in that moment. But like I look back on in that moment. But like I look back on that moment and I just think like on that moment and I just think like on that moment and I just think like no like that was the wrong thing to do. no like that was the wrong thing to do. no like that was the wrong thing to do. Like it was the wrong thing to do. Like Like it was the wrong thing to do. Like Like it was the wrong thing to do. Like I don't think we should be telling I don't think we should be telling I don't think we should be telling people not just boys like boys people not just boys like boys people not just boys like boys particularly maybe. But I don't think we particularly maybe. But I don't think we particularly maybe. But I don't think we should be telling people like control should be telling people like control should be telling people like control yourself. Like stop feeling so much. yourself. Like stop feeling so much. yourself. Like stop feeling so much. Like I think I think Like I think I think Like I think I think I think there's a difference between I think there's a difference between I think there's a difference between trying to like get people to control trying to like get people to control trying to like get people to control their feelings and not letting like their feelings and not letting like their feelings and not letting like everything be governed by the transient everything be governed by the transient everything be governed by the transient feelings that you have from moment to feelings that you have from moment to feelings that you have from moment to moment. And I I think it's a harder more moment. And I I think it's a harder more moment. And I I think it's a harder more subtle message. But like I think fe if subtle message. But like I think fe if subtle message. But like I think fe if we lead with the feelings, if we lean we lead with the feelings, if we lean we lead with the feelings, if we lean into the feelings first, if we identify into the feelings first, if we identify into the feelings first, if we identify the feelings first, if we figure out the feelings first, if we figure out the feelings first, if we figure out what it is we want to feel, we want the what it is we want to feel, we want the what it is we want to feel, we want the other person to feel to bring it back to other person to feel to bring it back to other person to feel to bring it back to marriage to bring it back to connection marriage to bring it back to connection marriage to bring it back to connection that what were the questions I was that what were the questions I was that what were the questions I was asking earlier that that exercise. When asking earlier that that exercise. When asking earlier that that exercise. When did I make you feel loved this week? did I make you feel loved this week? did I make you feel loved this week? Here's some things you did that made me Here's some things you did that made me Here's some things you did that made me feel loved this week. Here's some things feel loved this week. Here's some things feel loved this week. Here's some things that made me feel desire towards you that made me feel desire towards you that made me feel desire towards you this week. Here's some things you did this week. Here's some things you did this week. Here's some things you did this week that made me feel less than this week that made me feel less than this week that made me feel less than loved by you or that made me feel less loved by you or that made me feel less loved by you or that made me feel less connected to you. Like what? Maybe we connected to you. Like what? Maybe we connected to you. Like what? Maybe we just need to help each other learn just need to help each other learn just need to help each other learn how to identify our feelings and feel how to identify our feelings and feel how to identify our feelings and feel our feelings. Like maybe we need more our feelings. Like maybe we need more our feelings. Like maybe we need more Mr. Rogers and less, you know, intense Mr. Rogers and less, you know, intense Mr. Rogers and less, you know, intense self-help. Like maybe we just need more self-help. Like maybe we just need more self-help. Like maybe we just need more help not trying to control our feelings, help not trying to control our feelings, help not trying to control our feelings, but just figure out what they are and but just figure out what they are and but just figure out what they are and feel them. I think, you know, a lot of feel them. I think, you know, a lot of feel them. I think, you know, a lot of us are distracting ourselves as a way to us are distracting ourselves as a way to us are distracting ourselves as a way to avoid feeling anything because even I avoid feeling anything because even I avoid feeling anything because even I was thinking about like a practical way was thinking about like a practical way was thinking about like a practical way for you to get back in touch with for you to get back in touch with for you to get back in touch with actually how you're feeling. Yeah. actually how you're feeling. Yeah. actually how you're feeling. Yeah. >> And every solution I came up with was >> And every solution I came up with was >> And every solution I came up with was like interrupted by doom. like interrupted by doom. like interrupted by doom. >> Well, the best definition of addiction >> Well, the best definition of addiction >> Well, the best definition of addiction I've ever heard was from a therapist I've ever heard was from a therapist I've ever heard was from a therapist Dave Klugman Dave Klugman Dave Klugman >> who said to me, um, addiction is >> who said to me, um, addiction is >> who said to me, um, addiction is anything you do to get away from feeling anything you do to get away from feeling anything you do to get away from feeling what you would would have felt if you'd what you would would have felt if you'd what you would would have felt if you'd done nothing at all. And I've always done nothing at all. And I've always done nothing at all. And I've always said to people, work is my favorite said to people, work is my favorite said to people, work is my favorite narcotic. narcotic. narcotic. Like if you look at the most productive Like if you look at the most productive Like if you look at the most productive times in my life, they were almost times in my life, they were almost times in my life, they were almost always when something awful was always when something awful was always when something awful was happening in my personal life. Either I happening in my personal life. Either I happening in my personal life. Either I was getting divorced, my mother was was getting divorced, my mother was was getting divorced, my mother was dying, some some painful thing was dying, some some painful thing was dying, some some painful thing was happening. So I took tremendous comfort happening. So I took tremendous comfort happening. So I took tremendous comfort in feeling in control and competent, in feeling in control and competent, in feeling in control and competent, which is how I feel at work. So the the which is how I feel at work. So the the which is how I feel at work. So the the more I'm working is usually a gauge of more I'm working is usually a gauge of more I'm working is usually a gauge of of where there are aspects of my life of where there are aspects of my life of where there are aspects of my life that I don't want to feel certain that I don't want to feel certain that I don't want to feel certain things. And again, that's why I think things. And again, that's why I think things. And again, that's why I think that the the best question to ask at the that the the best question to ask at the that the the best question to ask at the start of therapy, the only question start of therapy, the only question start of therapy, the only question really, is what is it I'm afraid to really, is what is it I'm afraid to really, is what is it I'm afraid to feel? feel? feel? I think because we're closing off on I think because we're closing off on I think because we're closing off on this section where we were talking about this section where we were talking about this section where we were talking about people who have struggled in love, it is people who have struggled in love, it is people who have struggled in love, it is probably worth just closing the section probably worth just closing the section probably worth just closing the section by by by giving them giving them giving them a why as to a why as to a why as to like the the reason why they should take like the the reason why they should take like the the reason why they should take love seriously and stop distracting love seriously and stop distracting love seriously and stop distracting themselves and stop avoiding it and stop themselves and stop avoiding it and stop themselves and stop avoiding it and stop avoiding going to therapy, avoiding going to therapy, avoiding going to therapy, >> brushing it under the carpet. >> brushing it under the carpet. >> brushing it under the carpet. like what what is what is the why there? like what what is what is the why there? like what what is what is the why there? Why should they take love seriously? Why should they take love seriously? Why should they take love seriously? Because they could continue to, you Because they could continue to, you Because they could continue to, you know, bomb on for the next 10, 20 years know, bomb on for the next 10, 20 years know, bomb on for the next 10, 20 years and become and become and become >> really professionally accomplished. >> really professionally accomplished. >> really professionally accomplished. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And, you know, get rich, nice house, >> And, you know, get rich, nice house, >> And, you know, get rich, nice house, nice holidays. nice holidays. nice holidays. >> Yeah. Those are all great things. Those >> Yeah. Those are all great things. Those >> Yeah. Those are all great things. Those are all worthy pursuits. I think when you look back on your life, I think when you look back on your life, whatever stage of your life you're in, whatever stage of your life you're in, whatever stage of your life you're in, most people most people most people will recall a moment where they felt will recall a moment where they felt will recall a moment where they felt loved or where they felt tremendous love loved or where they felt tremendous love loved or where they felt tremendous love as the highest points of their life. as the highest points of their life. as the highest points of their life. I I think even celebrity and I represent I I think even celebrity and I represent I I think even celebrity and I represent a lot of celebrities and now like you a lot of celebrities and now like you a lot of celebrities and now like you I've had a little taste of it. That's really just the praise of That's really just the praise of strangers. It's like the love of strangers. It's like the love of strangers. It's like the love of strangers, which is lovely. It's lovely. strangers, which is lovely. It's lovely. strangers, which is lovely. It's lovely. It's like neutrieet. It's sweet. It's It's like neutrieet. It's sweet. It's It's like neutrieet. It's sweet. It's not sugar, but it's sweet. Like, feels not sugar, but it's sweet. Like, feels not sugar, but it's sweet. Like, feels good to have strangers adore you. It's good to have strangers adore you. It's good to have strangers adore you. It's lovely, you know? But is it the same as lovely, you know? But is it the same as lovely, you know? But is it the same as having someone who genuinely knows you having someone who genuinely knows you having someone who genuinely knows you and has a history of with you and really and has a history of with you and really and has a history of with you and really loves you? Like I think all of us know loves you? Like I think all of us know loves you? Like I think all of us know if we're honest that when we look back if we're honest that when we look back if we're honest that when we look back on our life at the moments where we felt on our life at the moments where we felt on our life at the moments where we felt the most glad that we're here, it was the most glad that we're here, it was the most glad that we're here, it was usually usually usually something that we felt that made us feel something that we felt that made us feel something that we felt that made us feel loved or that we got to feel loved loved or that we got to feel loved loved or that we got to feel loved towards someone else or or ideally a towards someone else or or ideally a towards someone else or or ideally a combination of the two. So I think combination of the two. So I think combination of the two. So I think romantic love is a great opportunity and romantic love is a great opportunity and romantic love is a great opportunity and you don't have to be someone who's you don't have to be someone who's you don't have to be someone who's religious and therefore believes that religious and therefore believes that religious and therefore believes that marriage is a sacrament that you're marriage is a sacrament that you're marriage is a sacrament that you're called to for the purpose of creating called to for the purpose of creating called to for the purpose of creating children. You don't have to be someone children. You don't have to be someone children. You don't have to be someone who believes that you know marriage is who believes that you know marriage is who believes that you know marriage is good for society and therefore that's good for society and therefore that's good for society and therefore that's why we have to do it is if you love why we have to do it is if you love why we have to do it is if you love America or you love the UK you have to America or you love the UK you have to America or you love the UK you have to do this for the country. It really can do this for the country. It really can do this for the country. It really can just be to look inside your own just be to look inside your own just be to look inside your own experience as a human being and look experience as a human being and look experience as a human being and look inside your own feelings and say, "Okay, inside your own feelings and say, "Okay, inside your own feelings and say, "Okay, when have I felt truly loved? When have when have I felt truly loved? When have when have I felt truly loved? When have I felt love? And were those the highest I felt love? And were those the highest I felt love? And were those the highest moments in my life? Were those the best moments in my life? Were those the best moments in my life? Were those the best moments in my life?" A lot of those moments in my life?" A lot of those moments in my life?" A lot of those other things that you just described other things that you just described other things that you just described like holiday, it's usually not by like holiday, it's usually not by like holiday, it's usually not by yourself. It's usually with other yourself. It's usually with other yourself. It's usually with other people. It's usually with someone. Even people. It's usually with someone. Even people. It's usually with someone. Even if it's transient love, it's some kind if it's transient love, it's some kind if it's transient love, it's some kind of connection to another person. So the of connection to another person. So the of connection to another person. So the the bigger question is is is the unique the bigger question is is is the unique the bigger question is is is the unique form of love that that comes with a pair form of love that that comes with a pair form of love that that comes with a pair bond, right? I you find one person and bond, right? I you find one person and bond, right? I you find one person and you make that person your person. Like you make that person your person. Like you make that person your person. Like is that the permutation that works for is that the permutation that works for is that the permutation that works for you? And I think there are a lot of you? And I think there are a lot of you? And I think there are a lot of people who try at that and fail. The people who try at that and fail. The people who try at that and fail. The majority of people try at that and fail. majority of people try at that and fail. majority of people try at that and fail. Is the solution to that to give up on Is the solution to that to give up on Is the solution to that to give up on it? I don't think so. I think the it? I don't think so. I think the it? I don't think so. I think the solution to it is to figure out when it solution to it is to figure out when it solution to it is to figure out when it works because when it works, it it's so works because when it works, it it's so works because when it works, it it's so good, right? Talk to anybody who's good, right? Talk to anybody who's good, right? Talk to anybody who's really had a great successful long-term really had a great successful long-term really had a great successful long-term relationship. Again, even if it relationship. Again, even if it relationship. Again, even if it eventually ends, even if you know, eventually ends, even if you know, eventually ends, even if you know, happily ever after means happily ever happily ever after means happily ever happily ever after means happily ever after separately. If you had 10, 20 after separately. If you had 10, 20 after separately. If you had 10, 20 years of your life where you felt deep, years of your life where you felt deep, years of your life where you felt deep, wonderful intimate connection with wonderful intimate connection with wonderful intimate connection with another person and great sexual another person and great sexual another person and great sexual satisfaction and all kinds of other satisfaction and all kinds of other satisfaction and all kinds of other things like you know at best right like things like you know at best right like things like you know at best right like you're you're getting married okay and you're you're getting married okay and you're you're getting married okay and if you have a monogous marriage I would if you have a monogous marriage I would if you have a monogous marriage I would like to think that like to think that like to think that you will sleep with as many women as you you will sleep with as many women as you you will sleep with as many women as you want to which will be one want to which will be one want to which will be one and she will sleep with as many men as and she will sleep with as many men as and she will sleep with as many men as she wants to, which will be one. Cuz she wants to, which will be one. Cuz she wants to, which will be one. Cuz when I'm full, when I'm full, when I'm full, I'm not hungry. I don't need more to I'm not hungry. I don't need more to I'm not hungry. I don't need more to eat. Like when I'm satisfied, I don't eat. Like when I'm satisfied, I don't eat. Like when I'm satisfied, I don't need more. Like if if the goal of a need more. Like if if the goal of a need more. Like if if the goal of a monogous marriage, if the goal of a monogous marriage, if the goal of a monogous marriage, if the goal of a traditional marriage is that we're going traditional marriage is that we're going traditional marriage is that we're going to say to each other, "Hey, you and I, to say to each other, "Hey, you and I, to say to each other, "Hey, you and I, we're going to share space. We're going we're going to share space. We're going we're going to share space. We're going to share a journey together. We're going to share a journey together. We're going to share a journey together. We're going to play a very important role in each to play a very important role in each to play a very important role in each other's lives. We're going to add to other's lives. We're going to add to other's lives. We're going to add to that. there's this romantic and sexual that. there's this romantic and sexual that. there's this romantic and sexual component which makes it something other component which makes it something other component which makes it something other than a friendship and most marriages than a friendship and most marriages than a friendship and most marriages you're saying we're going to only share you're saying we're going to only share you're saying we're going to only share that aspect of self with each other. that aspect of self with each other. that aspect of self with each other. Okay. So if that's what you want and Okay. So if that's what you want and Okay. So if that's what you want and what comes from that is you know what comes from that is you know what comes from that is you know something you want to feel and that is I something you want to feel and that is I something you want to feel and that is I want to feel deeply connected. I want to want to feel deeply connected. I want to want to feel deeply connected. I want to feel a connection that gets deeper and feel a connection that gets deeper and feel a connection that gets deeper and deeper. I want to feel safe in this deeper. I want to feel safe in this deeper. I want to feel safe in this relationship. Emotionally, physically, I relationship. Emotionally, physically, I relationship. Emotionally, physically, I want to feel safe in it. Like, I just want to feel safe in it. Like, I just want to feel safe in it. Like, I just think that there's tremendous value in think that there's tremendous value in think that there's tremendous value in saying that out loud to each other from saying that out loud to each other from saying that out loud to each other from the beginning and saying to each other, the beginning and saying to each other, the beginning and saying to each other, what can we do to to if we both have what can we do to to if we both have what can we do to to if we both have decided this is something we're going to decided this is something we're going to decided this is something we're going to do, we don't have to do it, but we're do, we don't have to do it, but we're do, we don't have to do it, but we're going to do it. How can we keep this going to do it. How can we keep this going to do it. How can we keep this thing lovely and connected? And I I thing lovely and connected? And I I thing lovely and connected? And I I think the answer really is not that think the answer really is not that think the answer really is not that complicated. complicated. complicated. >> Do you think prenups help marriages >> Do you think prenups help marriages >> Do you think prenups help marriages last? last? last? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> You're saying that as a divorce lawyer >> You're saying that as a divorce lawyer >> You're saying that as a divorce lawyer who gets paid to write them? who gets paid to write them? who gets paid to write them? >> No. Because it's the least profitable >> No. Because it's the least profitable >> No. Because it's the least profitable thing we do. thing we do. thing we do. >> Oh, okay. >> Oh, okay. >> Oh, okay. >> Yeah. Prenups are so easy. Like they're, >> Yeah. Prenups are so easy. Like they're, >> Yeah. Prenups are so easy. Like they're, you know, they're really like to the you know, they're really like to the you know, they're really like to the point now where they're essentially point now where they're essentially point now where they're essentially automated. Like I see a future where AI automated. Like I see a future where AI automated. Like I see a future where AI is just going to do them. Like it's is just going to do them. Like it's is just going to do them. Like it's really not that tricky. really not that tricky. really not that tricky. >> Do you think I should get a prenup? >> Do you think I should get a prenup? >> Do you think I should get a prenup? >> Yes, of course. >> Yes, of course. >> Yes, of course. >> Why do you think I should get a prenup? >> Why do you think I should get a prenup? >> Why do you think I should get a prenup? >> You have a prenup? It'll either be >> You have a prenup? It'll either be >> You have a prenup? It'll either be written by the state legislature or written by the state legislature or written by the state legislature or it'll be written by you and she. Who do it'll be written by you and she. Who do it'll be written by you and she. Who do you trust more? You've been to the DMV. you trust more? You've been to the DMV. you trust more? You've been to the DMV. Have you walked into the DMV and went, Have you walked into the DMV and went, Have you walked into the DMV and went, "Oh, these people are great. They should "Oh, these people are great. They should "Oh, these people are great. They should be in charge of everything." I mean, you be in charge of everything." I mean, you be in charge of everything." I mean, you know what? They should make the rules know what? They should make the rules know what? They should make the rules for our marriage. And by the way, even for our marriage. And by the way, even for our marriage. And by the way, even though this legislature changes though this legislature changes though this legislature changes constantly, like whoever you are, constantly, like whoever you are, constantly, like whoever you are, whatever your political views are, in whatever your political views are, in whatever your political views are, in the last 20 years, at some point you've the last 20 years, at some point you've the last 20 years, at some point you've gone, I cannot believe who's in charge gone, I cannot believe who's in charge gone, I cannot believe who's in charge here. I cannot believe who's in charge here. I cannot believe who's in charge here. I cannot believe who's in charge of the government. Whatever side of the of the government. Whatever side of the of the government. Whatever side of the aisle you're on. So what you're saying aisle you're on. So what you're saying aisle you're on. So what you're saying cuz your marriage has a prenup. You get cuz your marriage has a prenup. You get cuz your marriage has a prenup. You get married, you've got a prenup. You're married, you've got a prenup. You're married, you've got a prenup. You're saying I trust the legislature of the saying I trust the legislature of the saying I trust the legislature of the state in which we will be residing in state in which we will be residing in state in which we will be residing in the future in the event we break up more the future in the event we break up more the future in the event we break up more than I trust my partner who I've chosen than I trust my partner who I've chosen than I trust my partner who I've chosen out of 8 billion options. out of 8 billion options. out of 8 billion options. >> I imagine a lot of people listening >> I imagine a lot of people listening >> I imagine a lot of people listening would would would be scared to mention a prenup to their be scared to mention a prenup to their be scared to mention a prenup to their partner. partner. partner. >> And those people in particular, by the >> And those people in particular, by the >> And those people in particular, by the way, it's just like I said about, you way, it's just like I said about, you way, it's just like I said about, you know, I don't have 15 minutes a day to know, I don't have 15 minutes a day to know, I don't have 15 minutes a day to meditate. Great. that you need an hour. meditate. Great. that you need an hour. meditate. Great. that you need an hour. If you'd be scared to mention a prenup If you'd be scared to mention a prenup If you'd be scared to mention a prenup to your partner, then then you should to your partner, then then you should to your partner, then then you should definitely mention a prenup to your definitely mention a prenup to your definitely mention a prenup to your partner because what that means is I'm partner because what that means is I'm partner because what that means is I'm afraid to have a hard conversation with afraid to have a hard conversation with afraid to have a hard conversation with my partner. And if you're going to get my partner. And if you're going to get my partner. And if you're going to get married, you should get accustomed to married, you should get accustomed to married, you should get accustomed to having hard conversations. Life is going having hard conversations. Life is going having hard conversations. Life is going to come at you very fast. And there's to come at you very fast. And there's to come at you very fast. And there's going to be lots of things that happen going to be lots of things that happen going to be lots of things that happen that require hard conversations. that require hard conversations. that require hard conversations. >> What if my partner says no? >> What if my partner says no? >> What if my partner says no? >> Says no to the prenup. >> Says no to the prenup. >> Says no to the prenup. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. have a conversation about why have a conversation about why have a conversation about why >> and they say you don't trust me like you >> and they say you don't trust me like you >> and they say you don't trust me like you think I'm going to take your stuff. This think I'm going to take your stuff. This think I'm going to take your stuff. This is not very sexy. This is is not very sexy. This is is not very sexy. This is >> well arguably you don't trust me >> well arguably you don't trust me >> well arguably you don't trust me equally, right? Because that trust works equally, right? Because that trust works equally, right? Because that trust works both ways. So what what what you're both ways. So what what what you're both ways. So what what what you're saying when you say you don't trust me saying when you say you don't trust me saying when you say you don't trust me is you're saying that you don't trust is you're saying that you don't trust is you're saying that you don't trust that this marriage is going to last or that this marriage is going to last or that this marriage is going to last or you don't trust you're saying you don't you don't trust you're saying you don't you don't trust you're saying you don't trust that in the event this marriage trust that in the event this marriage trust that in the event this marriage ends we won't be fair to each other. ends we won't be fair to each other. ends we won't be fair to each other. Right? So, why would you marry someone Right? So, why would you marry someone Right? So, why would you marry someone who you don't believe that they're going who you don't believe that they're going who you don't believe that they're going to be fair to you? What you're you're to be fair to you? What you're you're to be fair to you? What you're you're not protecting yourselves against each not protecting yourselves against each not protecting yourselves against each other. You're protecting yourselves other. You're protecting yourselves other. You're protecting yourselves against the government making the rule against the government making the rule against the government making the rule set in the event that that your marriage set in the event that that your marriage set in the event that that your marriage ends in something other than death. ends in something other than death. ends in something other than death. >> You know, I've got a friend um there's >> You know, I've got a friend um there's >> You know, I've got a friend um there's two people that convinced me that I two people that convinced me that I two people that convinced me that I should get a prenup. should get a prenup. should get a prenup. >> One of them was you. >> One of them was you. >> One of them was you. >> Thanks. Um, and then the other was >> Thanks. Um, and then the other was >> Thanks. Um, and then the other was watching a friend go through divorce and watching a friend go through divorce and watching a friend go through divorce and he said to me actually when we we went he said to me actually when we we went he said to me actually when we we went for dinner one time that it was it was for dinner one time that it was it was for dinner one time that it was it was it was looking at his face and seeing it was looking at his face and seeing it was looking at his face and seeing the like depression in his face from the the like depression in his face from the the like depression in his face from the process because not only had it ruined process because not only had it ruined process because not only had it ruined his relationship with his ex-wife his relationship with his ex-wife his relationship with his ex-wife because they've gone through this because they've gone through this because they've gone through this onslaught for seven years where two sets onslaught for seven years where two sets onslaught for seven years where two sets of lawyers were fighting either side. He of lawyers were fighting either side. He of lawyers were fighting either side. He said that he had paid for the lawyer her said that he had paid for the lawyer her said that he had paid for the lawyer her lawyers lawyers lawyers >> which he has to do which I I wasn't >> which he has to do which I I wasn't >> which he has to do which I I wasn't >> Yeah. There's a presumption that the >> Yeah. There's a presumption that the >> Yeah. There's a presumption that the higher earning individual should be higher earning individual should be higher earning individual should be responsible for the legal reasonable responsible for the legal reasonable responsible for the legal reasonable legal fees of the the less uh earning legal fees of the the less uh earning legal fees of the the less uh earning spouse. spouse. spouse. >> He said her lawyer has now got like a >> He said her lawyer has now got like a >> He said her lawyer has now got like a skyscraper whereas when this divorce skyscraper whereas when this divorce skyscraper whereas when this divorce started he was in a small little office. started he was in a small little office. started he was in a small little office. Now he's got like some massive building Now he's got like some massive building Now he's got like some massive building because he's had to spend tens of because he's had to spend tens of because he's had to spend tens of millions on her lawyers. millions on her lawyers. millions on her lawyers. >> And >> And >> And >> yeah, I've had clients who paid >> yeah, I've had clients who paid >> yeah, I've had clients who paid millions. The other thing he said was millions. The other thing he said was millions. The other thing he said was that he has that he has that he has her lawyer is trying to inflate his her lawyer is trying to inflate his her lawyer is trying to inflate his assets assets assets >> to tell the judge that his business is >> to tell the judge that his business is >> to tell the judge that his business is worth worth worth >> billions of dollars when now I know why >> billions of dollars when now I know why >> billions of dollars when now I know why this divorce is taking so long. They this divorce is taking so long. They this divorce is taking so long. They have dueling experts. So instead of of have dueling experts. So instead of of have dueling experts. So instead of of the two lawyers hiring neutral a neutral the two lawyers hiring neutral a neutral the two lawyers hiring neutral a neutral expert to value his business interests, expert to value his business interests, expert to value his business interests, what they've elected to do instead is to what they've elected to do instead is to what they've elected to do instead is to hire individual partisan experts. And hire individual partisan experts. And hire individual partisan experts. And that happens sometimes. And when you that happens sometimes. And when you that happens sometimes. And when you hire an individual partisan expert, of hire an individual partisan expert, of hire an individual partisan expert, of course you're going to, you know, if you course you're going to, you know, if you course you're going to, you know, if you represent the party who wants half of represent the party who wants half of represent the party who wants half of this thing, you're going to find this thing, you're going to find this thing, you're going to find someone. You can, the cigarette someone. You can, the cigarette someone. You can, the cigarette companies had doctors who were willing companies had doctors who were willing companies had doctors who were willing to testify that cigarettes are good for to testify that cigarettes are good for to testify that cigarettes are good for you. Like you can find an expert to say you. Like you can find an expert to say you. Like you can find an expert to say almost anything if you pay them enough. almost anything if you pay them enough. almost anything if you pay them enough. So you find credible experts that will So you find credible experts that will So you find credible experts that will overly value the business and then overly value the business and then overly value the business and then because value is speculative and then because value is speculative and then because value is speculative and then the other side has an incentive to hire the other side has an incentive to hire the other side has an incentive to hire experts who will deliberately diminish experts who will deliberately diminish experts who will deliberately diminish the value of the business and then you the value of the business and then you the value of the business and then you have two opportunities. One is you can have two opportunities. One is you can have two opportunities. One is you can play with the data set and you can play with the data set and you can play with the data set and you can impeach the data set and then the other impeach the data set and then the other impeach the data set and then the other is you can impeach the conclusion that is you can impeach the conclusion that is you can impeach the conclusion that came from the data set. So you can say came from the data set. So you can say came from the data set. So you can say you used the wrong data and that's how you used the wrong data and that's how you used the wrong data and that's how you got to the wrong conclusion. Or you you got to the wrong conclusion. Or you you got to the wrong conclusion. Or you can say you use the right data but you can say you use the right data but you can say you use the right data but you came to the wrong conclusion or some came to the wrong conclusion or some came to the wrong conclusion or some combination of both. Like this is the combination of both. Like this is the combination of both. Like this is the [ __ ] I get to do all day in a courtroom [ __ ] I get to do all day in a courtroom [ __ ] I get to do all day in a courtroom is to like try to engineer those optics is to like try to engineer those optics is to like try to engineer those optics or prevent those optics from being or prevent those optics from being or prevent those optics from being engineered in that direction. engineered in that direction. engineered in that direction. >> And say that I was going through a >> And say that I was going through a >> And say that I was going through a divorce now with my partner. Mhm. divorce now with my partner. Mhm. divorce now with my partner. Mhm. >> My wife would well her lawyer would >> My wife would well her lawyer would >> My wife would well her lawyer would theoretically be trying to say that this theoretically be trying to say that this theoretically be trying to say that this podcast is worth a billion dollars podcast is worth a billion dollars podcast is worth a billion dollars because then theoretically because then theoretically because then theoretically >> she's entitled to a larger percentage. >> she's entitled to a larger percentage. >> she's entitled to a larger percentage. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> She might be entitled to 500 million. >> She might be entitled to 500 million. >> She might be entitled to 500 million. And if the judge believes that this And if the judge believes that this And if the judge believes that this podcast is worth a billion, I need to podcast is worth a billion, I need to podcast is worth a billion, I need to find a way to pay her 500 million. find a way to pay her 500 million. find a way to pay her 500 million. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Even if I don't have it, >> Even if I don't have it, >> Even if I don't have it, >> it can be paid over time. It's what's >> it can be paid over time. It's what's >> it can be paid over time. It's what's called a distributive award. It can be called a distributive award. It can be called a distributive award. It can be paid over an extended period of time. paid over an extended period of time. paid over an extended period of time. That's That's That's >> and my lawyer is going to be trying to >> and my lawyer is going to be trying to >> and my lawyer is going to be trying to argue that this is worth nothing. argue that this is worth nothing. argue that this is worth nothing. >> Nothing. It's absolutely effortless. >> Nothing. It's absolutely effortless. >> Nothing. It's absolutely effortless. It's worth nothing. You should have It's worth nothing. You should have It's worth nothing. You should have negative contingency discounts, a key negative contingency discounts, a key negative contingency discounts, a key man discount. It's a lack of discount man discount. It's a lack of discount man discount. It's a lack of discount for marketability. There's Yeah, this is for marketability. There's Yeah, this is for marketability. There's Yeah, this is all I do all day. This is the gig. And all I do all day. This is the gig. And all I do all day. This is the gig. And and see, you know why you want a prenup and see, you know why you want a prenup and see, you know why you want a prenup is cuz God forbid for both of you that is cuz God forbid for both of you that is cuz God forbid for both of you that that happens. Like you're you're going that happens. Like you're you're going that happens. Like you're you're going to pay me. I get a thousand dollars an to pay me. I get a thousand dollars an to pay me. I get a thousand dollars an hour to help people navigate that kind hour to help people navigate that kind hour to help people navigate that kind of chaos or to create that kind of chaos of chaos or to create that kind of chaos of chaos or to create that kind of chaos as a weapon against a person or to just as a weapon against a person or to just as a weapon against a person or to just threaten that [clears throat] kind of threaten that [clears throat] kind of threaten that [clears throat] kind of chaos. chaos. chaos. >> Doesn't that mean it's your in your >> Doesn't that mean it's your in your >> Doesn't that mean it's your in your interest to stretch to amplify conflict interest to stretch to amplify conflict interest to stretch to amplify conflict and stretch it out and protract it? And and stretch it out and protract it? And and stretch it out and protract it? And by the way, I manipulate people's by the way, I manipulate people's by the way, I manipulate people's emotional state for a living. I said emotional state for a living. I said emotional state for a living. I said that earlier. You don't think I could that earlier. You don't think I could that earlier. You don't think I could use my powers for evil to get my client use my powers for evil to get my client use my powers for evil to get my client terrified and worried that forces are terrified and worried that forces are terrified and worried that forces are aligning against him? By the way, that's aligning against him? By the way, that's aligning against him? By the way, that's how good lawyers get their reputation as how good lawyers get their reputation as how good lawyers get their reputation as being good lawyers because sometimes we being good lawyers because sometimes we being good lawyers because sometimes we have a client where we could potentially have a client where we could potentially have a client where we could potentially make millions of dollars and we settle make millions of dollars and we settle make millions of dollars and we settle the case within like $10,000 worth of the case within like $10,000 worth of the case within like $10,000 worth of fee. Like I have a case right now where fee. Like I have a case right now where fee. Like I have a case right now where my opposing council is I I would my opposing council is I I would my opposing council is I I would consider the only lawyer in New York consider the only lawyer in New York consider the only lawyer in New York City better than me. like he's sort of City better than me. like he's sort of City better than me. like he's sort of like an idol to me in the sense that like an idol to me in the sense that like an idol to me in the sense that he's such a good trial lawyer and he's he's such a good trial lawyer and he's he's such a good trial lawyer and he's my adversary on this case and it's not my adversary on this case and it's not my adversary on this case and it's not the first case we've had against each the first case we've had against each the first case we've had against each other and we are like when the two of us other and we are like when the two of us other and we are like when the two of us go in a courtroom it's like T-Rexes go in a courtroom it's like T-Rexes go in a courtroom it's like T-Rexes fighting fighting fighting we're going to settle this case in like we're going to settle this case in like we're going to settle this case in like two phone calls because we both are just two phone calls because we both are just two phone calls because we both are just not the kind of people that are going to not the kind of people that are going to not the kind of people that are going to unnecessarily amplify conflict. We we we unnecessarily amplify conflict. We we we unnecessarily amplify conflict. We we we have our reputation because we don't do have our reputation because we don't do have our reputation because we don't do that. Like the best of us, that's how that. Like the best of us, that's how that. Like the best of us, that's how you earn the reputation. The people that you earn the reputation. The people that you earn the reputation. The people that do that amplifying of conflict, word do that amplifying of conflict, word do that amplifying of conflict, word gets out. Word gets out. And that's this gets out. Word gets out. And that's this gets out. Word gets out. And that's this is a business where you live and die by is a business where you live and die by is a business where you live and die by your reputation. your reputation. your reputation. Make sure you keep what I'm about to say Make sure you keep what I'm about to say Make sure you keep what I'm about to say to yourself. I'm inviting 10,000 of you to yourself. I'm inviting 10,000 of you to yourself. I'm inviting 10,000 of you to come even deeper into the diary of a to come even deeper into the diary of a to come even deeper into the diary of a CEO. Welcome to my inner circle. This is CEO. Welcome to my inner circle. This is CEO. Welcome to my inner circle. This is a brand new private community that I'm a brand new private community that I'm a brand new private community that I'm launching to the world. We have so many launching to the world. We have so many launching to the world. We have so many incredible things that happen that you incredible things that happen that you incredible things that happen that you are never shown. We have the briefs that are never shown. We have the briefs that are never shown. We have the briefs that are on my iPad when I'm recording the are on my iPad when I'm recording the are on my iPad when I'm recording the conversation. We have clips we've never conversation. We have clips we've never conversation. We have clips we've never released. We have behindthe-scenes released. We have behindthe-scenes released. We have behindthe-scenes conversations with the guests and also conversations with the guests and also conversations with the guests and also the episodes that we've never ever the episodes that we've never ever the episodes that we've never ever released. And so much more. In the released. And so much more. In the released. And so much more. In the circle, you'll have direct access to me. circle, you'll have direct access to me. circle, you'll have direct access to me. You can tell us what you want this show You can tell us what you want this show You can tell us what you want this show to be, who you want us to interview, and to be, who you want us to interview, and to be, who you want us to interview, and the types of conversations you would the types of conversations you would the types of conversations you would love us to have. But remember, for now, love us to have. But remember, for now, love us to have. But remember, for now, we're only inviting the first 10,000 we're only inviting the first 10,000 we're only inviting the first 10,000 people that join before it closes. So, people that join before it closes. So, people that join before it closes. So, if you want to join our private closed if you want to join our private closed if you want to join our private closed community, head to the link in the community, head to the link in the community, head to the link in the description below or go to description below or go to description below or go to daccircle.com. I will speak to you there. I will speak to you there. So, I have So, I have So, I have some M&M's here or something. some M&M's here or something. some M&M's here or something. >> You love M&M's. >> You love M&M's. >> You love M&M's. >> Um, explain to me. So, this is actually >> Um, explain to me. So, this is actually >> Um, explain to me. So, this is actually a great illustration of what a prenup a great illustration of what a prenup a great illustration of what a prenup should be. Okay. All a prenup is a should be. Okay. All a prenup is a should be. Okay. All a prenup is a prenup is not a referendum on the prenup is not a referendum on the prenup is not a referendum on the likelihood of us breaking up. A prenup likelihood of us breaking up. A prenup likelihood of us breaking up. A prenup is not a commentary on how much we trust is not a commentary on how much we trust is not a commentary on how much we trust each other. A prenup is not um you know each other. A prenup is not um you know each other. A prenup is not um you know an opportunity to screw the person an opportunity to screw the person an opportunity to screw the person you're about to join lives with. Okay? A you're about to join lives with. Okay? A you're about to join lives with. Okay? A prenup is a rule set. It's creating prenup is a rule set. It's creating prenup is a rule set. It's creating tranches. Okay? So you have some things. tranches. Okay? So you have some things. tranches. Okay? So you have some things. She has some things right now. You don't She has some things right now. You don't She has some things right now. You don't owe her anything. She doesn't owe you owe her anything. She doesn't owe you owe her anything. She doesn't owe you anything. Yours is yours. Hers is hers. anything. Yours is yours. Hers is hers. anything. Yours is yours. Hers is hers. You're in the title system. You're in the title system. You're in the title system. >> Can we talk about if we're just dating? >> Can we talk about if we're just dating? >> Can we talk about if we're just dating? >> So, if we're dating, I heard that >> So, if we're dating, I heard that >> So, if we're dating, I heard that there's some laws where if you date there's some laws where if you date there's some laws where if you date someone long enough, eventually they can someone long enough, eventually they can someone long enough, eventually they can basically argue that they own your basically argue that they own your basically argue that they own your stuff. stuff. stuff. >> Yeah. So, that's called what used to be >> Yeah. So, that's called what used to be >> Yeah. So, that's called what used to be called common law marriage or it makes called common law marriage or it makes called common law marriage or it makes you responsible for what we used to call you responsible for what we used to call you responsible for what we used to call palimony, which is like alimony for a palimony, which is like alimony for a palimony, which is like alimony for a friend. Palimony. Okay. Um, most friend. Palimony. Okay. Um, most friend. Palimony. Okay. Um, most jurisdictions no longer honor that. It jurisdictions no longer honor that. It jurisdictions no longer honor that. It doesn't exist. It was largely a function doesn't exist. It was largely a function doesn't exist. It was largely a function of the absence of marriage equality. So of the absence of marriage equality. So of the absence of marriage equality. So once marriage equality occurred, once once marriage equality occurred, once once marriage equality occurred, once gay and lesbian individuals could marry, gay and lesbian individuals could marry, gay and lesbian individuals could marry, the court system essentially started the court system essentially started the court system essentially started saying there's no such thing as a quasi saying there's no such thing as a quasi saying there's no such thing as a quasi marital relationship anymore. If you are marital relationship anymore. If you are marital relationship anymore. If you are married, you're married. If you're not, married, you're married. If you're not, married, you're married. If you're not, you're not. So if you decide to live you're not. So if you decide to live you're not. So if you decide to live together and you don't have a marriage, together and you don't have a marriage, together and you don't have a marriage, then you can't have a quasi marital then you can't have a quasi marital then you can't have a quasi marital relationship anymore. Now that marriage relationship anymore. Now that marriage relationship anymore. Now that marriage equality is the law of the land and equality is the law of the land and equality is the law of the land and everyone who wants to get married is everyone who wants to get married is everyone who wants to get married is allowed to get married. You can't say allowed to get married. You can't say allowed to get married. You can't say well we were kind of like married but we well we were kind of like married but we well we were kind of like married but we weren't married. Like you're either weren't married. Like you're either weren't married. Like you're either married or you're not married. Those are married or you're not married. Those are married or you're not married. Those are the two tranches. So that situation the two tranches. So that situation the two tranches. So that situation you're in the title system. Yours is you're in the title system. Yours is you're in the title system. Yours is yours, hers is hers. There is no we yours, hers is hers. There is no we yours, hers is hers. There is no we except for the voluntary we. except for the voluntary we. except for the voluntary we. >> Okay. So now using coming back to this >> Okay. So now using coming back to this >> Okay. So now using coming back to this example of these M&M's and prenups. So, example of these M&M's and prenups. So, example of these M&M's and prenups. So, here's what marriage is. Simply put, here's what marriage is. Simply put, here's what marriage is. Simply put, there's you, there's me, and this is we. there's you, there's me, and this is we. there's you, there's me, and this is we. This is the bucket of we. Okay? When we This is the bucket of we. Okay? When we This is the bucket of we. Okay? When we get married, we're going to take you. I didn't put it all. See, I didn't put I didn't put it all. See, I didn't put it all. Okay? I'm keeping this separate. it all. Okay? I'm keeping this separate. it all. Okay? I'm keeping this separate. That's called separate property. Okay? That's called separate property. Okay? That's called separate property. Okay? In California, this is called community In California, this is called community In California, this is called community property. This is anything I acquire property. This is anything I acquire property. This is anything I acquire during the marriage. Okay, this is during the marriage. Okay, this is during the marriage. Okay, this is separate property. If I keep it separate property. If I keep it separate property. If I keep it separate, it stays separate. Okay, it separate, it stays separate. Okay, it separate, it stays separate. Okay, it stays separate. Keep that thought. This stays separate. Keep that thought. This stays separate. Keep that thought. This is her. Okay, she's put some of hers in there, too. she's put some of hers in there, too. May not be exactly the same, but it's May not be exactly the same, but it's May not be exactly the same, but it's pretty close to it. And by the way, we pretty close to it. And by the way, we pretty close to it. And by the way, we just got married. It's pretty obvious to just got married. It's pretty obvious to just got married. It's pretty obvious to see which one's which, right? Okay. So, see which one's which, right? Okay. So, see which one's which, right? Okay. So, so this is any marriage really with or so this is any marriage really with or so this is any marriage really with or without a prenup. Okay. This is what without a prenup. Okay. This is what without a prenup. Okay. This is what marriage looks like. There's you and marriage looks like. There's you and marriage looks like. There's you and there's me and there's we. We're there's me and there's we. We're there's me and there's we. We're combining. And by the way, this isn't combining. And by the way, this isn't combining. And by the way, this isn't just for assets and liabilities. This is just for assets and liabilities. This is just for assets and liabilities. This is like the nature of our stuff, our like the nature of our stuff, our like the nature of our stuff, our furniture, the things we bring to the furniture, the things we bring to the furniture, the things we bring to the relationship. You could even argue it's relationship. You could even argue it's relationship. You could even argue it's like what we watch on TV, right? It's like what we watch on TV, right? It's like what we watch on TV, right? It's you, me, we, and we combine the two. you, me, we, and we combine the two. you, me, we, and we combine the two. Okay. Now, you and I both know this is Okay. Now, you and I both know this is Okay. Now, you and I both know this is actually what it starts to look like. It actually what it starts to look like. It actually what it starts to look like. It never stays just me, does it? it always never stays just me, does it? it always never stays just me, does it? it always starts to get kind of mixed up together. starts to get kind of mixed up together. starts to get kind of mixed up together. In the law, we call that co-mingling. In the law, we call that co-mingling. In the law, we call that co-mingling. Okay. Now, here's what's interesting Okay. Now, here's what's interesting Okay. Now, here's what's interesting with a prenup. This stays this simple with a prenup. This stays this simple with a prenup. This stays this simple because anything you put in this bucket because anything you put in this bucket because anything you put in this bucket is marital. And that could be stuff I is marital. And that could be stuff I is marital. And that could be stuff I bought for the house. It could be a bought for the house. It could be a bought for the house. It could be a joint bank account. Could joint bank account. Could joint bank account. Could >> be anything. >> be anything. >> be anything. >> Okay? All we're doing when we have a >> Okay? All we're doing when we have a >> Okay? All we're doing when we have a prenup is yours, mine, ours, and we're prenup is yours, mine, ours, and we're prenup is yours, mine, ours, and we're defining that. So maybe I want you to defining that. So maybe I want you to defining that. So maybe I want you to feel I'm very invested in this feel I'm very invested in this feel I'm very invested in this relationship. So I throw some more in. relationship. So I throw some more in. relationship. So I throw some more in. Hey babe, I just got a bonus at work. Hey babe, I just got a bonus at work. Hey babe, I just got a bonus at work. I'm throwing it into the Wii. I'm I'm throwing it into the Wii. I'm I'm throwing it into the Wii. I'm keeping a little over here. I'm keeping keeping a little over here. I'm keeping keeping a little over here. I'm keeping a little over here. a little over here. a little over here. >> Wait, can you do that after the >> Wait, can you do that after the >> Wait, can you do that after the marriage? marriage? marriage? >> With a prenup? Yeah. >> With a prenup? Yeah. >> With a prenup? Yeah. >> So you can add to a prenup? The prenup, >> So you can add to a prenup? The prenup, >> So you can add to a prenup? The prenup, what you're saying is if it's in my what you're saying is if it's in my what you're saying is if it's in my name, it's mine. Asset or liability. If name, it's mine. Asset or liability. If name, it's mine. Asset or liability. If it's in your name, it's yours. Asset or it's in your name, it's yours. Asset or it's in your name, it's yours. Asset or liability. If it's in our joint names, liability. If it's in our joint names, liability. If it's in our joint names, we divide it 50/50 or how we agree in we divide it 50/50 or how we agree in we divide it 50/50 or how we agree in writing. But we create three separate writing. But we create three separate writing. But we create three separate buckets. Yours, mine, and ours. Okay? Do buckets. Yours, mine, and ours. Okay? Do buckets. Yours, mine, and ours. Okay? Do you know what happens in the state of you know what happens in the state of you know what happens in the state of California after seven years or in the California after seven years or in the California after seven years or in the state of New York if you co-ingle assets state of New York if you co-ingle assets state of New York if you co-ingle assets in any way? in any way? in any way? This is solely things in your name. This This is solely things in your name. This This is solely things in your name. This is solely things in her name. Things you is solely things in her name. Things you is solely things in her name. Things you owned before marriage. This is the you owned before marriage. This is the you owned before marriage. This is the you and the me before you got married. >> It's community property now. All of it. >> It's community property now. All of it. >> Everything. >> Everything. >> Everything. >> All of it. Every bit of it. You didn't >> All of it. Every bit of it. You didn't >> All of it. Every bit of it. You didn't have a prenup. Everything that's in it. have a prenup. Everything that's in it. have a prenup. Everything that's in it. Everything in here is is subject to Everything in here is is subject to Everything in here is is subject to division. Everything that's in here is division. Everything that's in here is division. Everything that's in here is subject to identification, valuation, subject to identification, valuation, subject to identification, valuation, and division. And think about think and division. And think about think and division. And think about think about about about sorting that out. sorting that out. sorting that out. >> And also going back to my friend, some >> And also going back to my friend, some >> And also going back to my friend, some of the value of these assets is up for of the value of these assets is up for of the value of these assets is up for debate. debate. debate. >> Sure. Sure. Not only is the value >> Sure. Sure. Not only is the value >> Sure. Sure. Not only is the value because look, some of these are cracked because look, some of these are cracked because look, some of these are cracked and some of them aren't. And did they and some of them aren't. And did they and some of them aren't. And did they crack in this process or were they crack in this process or were they crack in this process or were they cracked before? Did she crack them or cracked before? Did she crack them or cracked before? Did she crack them or did you crack them? And which ones are did you crack them? And which ones are did you crack them? And which ones are worth more than the others? And were worth more than the others? And were worth more than the others? And were these the same at the be? It doesn't these the same at the be? It doesn't these the same at the be? It doesn't matter. It's all in. And by the way, matter. It's all in. And by the way, matter. It's all in. And by the way, take take out the marital take out your take take out the marital take out your take take out the marital take out your property. Now, how long is that going to property. Now, how long is that going to property. Now, how long is that going to take you? It's impossible to do the once take you? It's impossible to do the once take you? It's impossible to do the once you're in the community property system, you're in the community property system, you're in the community property system, once you've put something into the Wii once you've put something into the Wii once you've put something into the Wii category, if you get married without a category, if you get married without a category, if you get married without a prenup, you can unintentionally prenup, you can unintentionally prenup, you can unintentionally buy into this into this system, which by buy into this into this system, which by buy into this into this system, which by the way, I make a very comfortable the way, I make a very comfortable the way, I make a very comfortable living helping people sort this out. living helping people sort this out. living helping people sort this out. Whereas Whereas Whereas whereas whereas whereas all you had to do was agree on the rule all you had to do was agree on the rule all you had to do was agree on the rule set of yours, mine, ours, and then this set of yours, mine, ours, and then this set of yours, mine, ours, and then this is intentional. Now, I understand why is intentional. Now, I understand why is intentional. Now, I understand why that's scary for some people because you that's scary for some people because you that's scary for some people because you have to have a conversation about, well, have to have a conversation about, well, have to have a conversation about, well, are we putting that in joint names? Or, are we putting that in joint names? Or, are we putting that in joint names? Or, well, you got that bonus. Are you well, you got that bonus. Are you well, you got that bonus. Are you putting it in my account or your account putting it in my account or your account putting it in my account or your account or some in your account and some in my or some in your account and some in my or some in your account and some in my account or some in this? But isn't it account or some in this? But isn't it account or some in this? But isn't it better to keep some level of control better to keep some level of control better to keep some level of control over this? over this? over this? >> If I was a financially motivated >> If I was a financially motivated >> If I was a financially motivated individual and I was marrying say you individual and I was marrying say you individual and I was marrying say you and you were a billionaire, and you were a billionaire, and you were a billionaire, >> I mean it's very much in my interest to >> I mean it's very much in my interest to >> I mean it's very much in my interest to avoid this prenup avoid this prenup avoid this prenup >> maybe. Yeah. >> maybe. Yeah. >> maybe. Yeah. >> Because then, you know, it's all going >> Because then, you know, it's all going >> Because then, you know, it's all going to become we in seven years time. So to become we in seven years time. So to become we in seven years time. So I've just got to be with you for seven I've just got to be with you for seven I've just got to be with you for seven years and then I can bounce out of this years and then I can bounce out of this years and then I can bounce out of this and I'm going to make half a billion and I'm going to make half a billion and I'm going to make half a billion dollars. Have you ever seen that? dollars. Have you ever seen that? dollars. Have you ever seen that? >> Of course. >> Of course. >> Of course. >> Have you ever seen? >> Have you ever seen? >> Have you ever seen? >> Of course I have. But here's also what I >> Of course I have. But here's also what I >> Of course I have. But here's also what I will say to you. Flip that story for a will say to you. Flip that story for a will say to you. Flip that story for a second. So we're married for 6 and 1/2 second. So we're married for 6 and 1/2 second. So we're married for 6 and 1/2 years. It's going pretty well. years. It's going pretty well. years. It's going pretty well. We're at the 6 and 1/2 year mark. We're at the 6 and 1/2 year mark. We're at the 6 and 1/2 year mark. You're you're a billionaire. You're You're you're a billionaire. You're You're you're a billionaire. You're probably not stupid, right? Are you probably not stupid, right? Are you probably not stupid, right? Are you going to take that bet? going to take that bet? going to take that bet? >> Is it seven years is the moment when >> Is it seven years is the moment when >> Is it seven years is the moment when >> is the moment >> is the moment >> is the moment >> when it all becomes >> when it all becomes >> when it all becomes >> community property? Yeah. >> community property? Yeah. >> community property? Yeah. >> So do you find some very successful >> So do you find some very successful >> So do you find some very successful people? spike the divorce rate at six people? spike the divorce rate at six people? spike the divorce rate at six years, six and a half years because why? years, six and a half years because why? years, six and a half years because why? It's the same reason why I tell people It's the same reason why I tell people It's the same reason why I tell people don't put don't put what we call you don't put don't put what we call you don't put don't put what we call you know sunset clauses in a prenup because know sunset clauses in a prenup because know sunset clauses in a prenup because people people all have the bright idea people people all have the bright idea people people all have the bright idea that they're going to oh well we'll do a that they're going to oh well we'll do a that they're going to oh well we'll do a prenup but after 10 years it'll go away prenup but after 10 years it'll go away prenup but after 10 years it'll go away after 10 years you know it'll after 10 years you know it'll after 10 years you know it'll self-destruct like in Mission Impossible self-destruct like in Mission Impossible self-destruct like in Mission Impossible and all that does is makes people ask and all that does is makes people ask and all that does is makes people ask really icky questions at the n and a really icky questions at the n and a really icky questions at the n and a half year mark where they have to start half year mark where they have to start half year mark where they have to start going because seven years seven years going because seven years seven years going because seven years seven years it's like the honeymoon's over maybe you it's like the honeymoon's over maybe you it's like the honeymoon's over maybe you got a kid or two and all of a sudden you got a kid or two and all of a sudden you got a kid or two and all of a sudden you go, okay, do I want fully one half of go, okay, do I want fully one half of go, okay, do I want fully one half of everything I owned prior to the marriage everything I owned prior to the marriage everything I owned prior to the marriage to now be subject to division? Is it to now be subject to division? Is it to now be subject to division? Is it going that good? Do I want to take this going that good? Do I want to take this going that good? Do I want to take this bet? Like, look, we live in reality. bet? Like, look, we live in reality. bet? Like, look, we live in reality. What you're doing when you marry someone What you're doing when you marry someone What you're doing when you marry someone is you're marrying your destiny to them is you're marrying your destiny to them is you're marrying your destiny to them and you're making decisions about a and you're making decisions about a and you're making decisions about a future that you can't see. It hasn't future that you can't see. It hasn't future that you can't see. It hasn't happened yet. If seven years is the happened yet. If seven years is the happened yet. If seven years is the moment when our assets become co-mingled moment when our assets become co-mingled moment when our assets become co-mingled to the point that community property to the point that community property to the point that community property where we have to kind of split our where we have to kind of split our where we have to kind of split our assets in a relationship, have you ever assets in a relationship, have you ever assets in a relationship, have you ever seen someone get to like seven years in seen someone get to like seven years in seen someone get to like seven years in one day and then file for divorce one day and then file for divorce one day and then file for divorce because they're going to get because they're going to get because they're going to get >> Yeah, I've had people who wait until the >> Yeah, I've had people who wait until the >> Yeah, I've had people who wait until the exact moment. Like there's other there's exact moment. Like there's other there's exact moment. Like there's other there's other formulas that are applicable. Like other formulas that are applicable. Like other formulas that are applicable. Like I I have plenty of people right now that I I have plenty of people right now that I I have plenty of people right now that have come to me for a consultation and have come to me for a consultation and have come to me for a consultation and they're like, "Yeah, I'm not going to they're like, "Yeah, I'm not going to they're like, "Yeah, I'm not going to file for another 6 months because we'll file for another 6 months because we'll file for another 6 months because we'll hit 20 years in 6 months." And when we hit 20 years in 6 months." And when we hit 20 years in 6 months." And when we hit that, it kicks up to another level hit that, it kicks up to another level hit that, it kicks up to another level of alimony in terms of the formulas. of alimony in terms of the formulas. of alimony in terms of the formulas. Like here's the thing. When the Like here's the thing. When the Like here's the thing. When the government makes decisions for you, they government makes decisions for you, they government makes decisions for you, they set numbers. Like there's a highway near set numbers. Like there's a highway near set numbers. Like there's a highway near where we are right now. It's 55 miles an where we are right now. It's 55 miles an where we are right now. It's 55 miles an hour is an acceptable legal speed to hour is an acceptable legal speed to hour is an acceptable legal speed to drive on that. 56 and you're committing drive on that. 56 and you're committing drive on that. 56 and you're committing a crime. 76 and you're committing a a crime. 76 and you're committing a a crime. 76 and you're committing a different level of crime. 106 and you're different level of crime. 106 and you're different level of crime. 106 and you're committing a higher level felony crime. committing a higher level felony crime. committing a higher level felony crime. Right? Is 56 and 55 that much different? Right? Is 56 and 55 that much different? Right? Is 56 and 55 that much different? No. We had to pick a number. So, we No. We had to pick a number. So, we No. We had to pick a number. So, we picked that number. So, do you trust the picked that number. So, do you trust the picked that number. So, do you trust the government to pick the number? That's government to pick the number? That's government to pick the number? That's the only question to ask when you're the only question to ask when you're the only question to ask when you're thinking about a prenup is, do I trust thinking about a prenup is, do I trust thinking about a prenup is, do I trust the government so much that I'm going to the government so much that I'm going to the government so much that I'm going to let them pick the number? Personally, I let them pick the number? Personally, I let them pick the number? Personally, I don't. Personally, if I like someone so don't. Personally, if I like someone so don't. Personally, if I like someone so much that I've decided I'm going to much that I've decided I'm going to much that I've decided I'm going to choose them out of 8 billion other choose them out of 8 billion other choose them out of 8 billion other options, I would think I have enough options, I would think I have enough options, I would think I have enough faith in that person to come up with a faith in that person to come up with a faith in that person to come up with a rule set between us that we and BY THE rule set between us that we and BY THE rule set between us that we and BY THE WAY, NOT A COMPLICATED rule set. If it's WAY, NOT A COMPLICATED rule set. If it's WAY, NOT A COMPLICATED rule set. If it's in my name, it's mine. If it's in your in my name, it's mine. If it's in your in my name, it's mine. If it's in your name, it's yours. If it's in our name, name, it's yours. If it's in our name, name, it's yours. If it's in our name, it's ours. Then you can have all the it's ours. Then you can have all the it's ours. Then you can have all the conversations you want about why aren't conversations you want about why aren't conversations you want about why aren't you putting things in joint names or why you putting things in joint names or why you putting things in joint names or why are you putting things in joint names? are you putting things in joint names? are you putting things in joint names? And here's what I need to feel safe. Cuz And here's what I need to feel safe. Cuz And here's what I need to feel safe. Cuz here's the thing. If you're the here's the thing. If you're the here's the thing. If you're the billionaire or you're the person billionaire or you're the person billionaire or you're the person marrying the billionaire, you both want marrying the billionaire, you both want marrying the billionaire, you both want to feel. Remember, we're going back to to feel. Remember, we're going back to to feel. Remember, we're going back to what is it you want to feel? What is it what is it you want to feel? What is it what is it you want to feel? What is it you want to feel? That's the key you want to feel? That's the key you want to feel? That's the key question. You What do you want to feel? question. You What do you want to feel? question. You What do you want to feel? You both want to feel safe. Isn't that You both want to feel safe. Isn't that You both want to feel safe. Isn't that fair? I've represented a lot of victims fair? I've represented a lot of victims fair? I've represented a lot of victims of intimate partner abuse and domestic of intimate partner abuse and domestic of intimate partner abuse and domestic violence and coercive control. And I can violence and coercive control. And I can violence and coercive control. And I can tell you, you can't feel loved if you tell you, you can't feel loved if you tell you, you can't feel loved if you don't feel safe. And there's lots of don't feel safe. And there's lots of don't feel safe. And there's lots of ways for a person to feel unsafe ways for a person to feel unsafe ways for a person to feel unsafe physically, emotionally, financially. physically, emotionally, financially. physically, emotionally, financially. There's lots of ways to make someone I There's lots of ways to make someone I There's lots of ways to make someone I hope you want to make your fiance feel hope you want to make your fiance feel hope you want to make your fiance feel safe and I hope she wants to make you safe and I hope she wants to make you safe and I hope she wants to make you feel safe. So, one of the ways that you feel safe. So, one of the ways that you feel safe. So, one of the ways that you make her feel safe. By the way, you make her feel safe. By the way, you make her feel safe. By the way, you can't protect her from everything in the can't protect her from everything in the can't protect her from everything in the world. You know that, right? Like world. You know that, right? Like world. You know that, right? Like somebody drops a nuke, there's nothing somebody drops a nuke, there's nothing somebody drops a nuke, there's nothing you're going to be able to do to help you're going to be able to do to help you're going to be able to do to help her with that. Okay? There's lots of her with that. Okay? There's lots of her with that. Okay? There's lots of things that can happen that you can't things that can happen that you can't things that can happen that you can't keep her safe from, but you're going to keep her safe from, but you're going to keep her safe from, but you're going to do your darnest. And that's great. Okay? do your darnest. And that's great. Okay? do your darnest. And that's great. Okay? And by the way, like she wants you to And by the way, like she wants you to And by the way, like she wants you to feel safe. She wants you to feel safe feel safe. She wants you to feel safe feel safe. She wants you to feel safe and not taken advantage of and loved for and not taken advantage of and loved for and not taken advantage of and loved for who you are. Right? I I have every who you are. Right? I I have every who you are. Right? I I have every confidence she does not love you just confidence she does not love you just confidence she does not love you just for money. There's lots of people with for money. There's lots of people with for money. There's lots of people with money in the world. So, she loves the money in the world. So, she loves the money in the world. So, she loves the unique combination of things that are unique combination of things that are unique combination of things that are you. One factor of which may be that you. One factor of which may be that you. One factor of which may be that you're a very successful man you're a very successful man you're a very successful man professionally and that makes her feel professionally and that makes her feel professionally and that makes her feel safe and that makes her feel secure and safe and that makes her feel secure and safe and that makes her feel secure and it makes her feel like she can really it makes her feel like she can really it makes her feel like she can really have a future with you that's a bright have a future with you that's a bright have a future with you that's a bright and lovely one and she can focus her and lovely one and she can focus her and lovely one and she can focus her energies on things other than find. energies on things other than find. energies on things other than find. That's great. THIS IS GREAT, MAN. WE'RE That's great. THIS IS GREAT, MAN. WE'RE That's great. THIS IS GREAT, MAN. WE'RE BOTH HAPPY. WE'RE DOING the thing. So, BOTH HAPPY. WE'RE DOING the thing. So, BOTH HAPPY. WE'RE DOING the thing. So, what is wrong with just keeping this what is wrong with just keeping this what is wrong with just keeping this conversation an ongoing conversation conversation an ongoing conversation conversation an ongoing conversation about what is it we need to feel safe? about what is it we need to feel safe? about what is it we need to feel safe? Because if you are in that dynamic where Because if you are in that dynamic where Because if you are in that dynamic where she's gorgeous and he's rich, if she she's gorgeous and he's rich, if she she's gorgeous and he's rich, if she says to him, hey, if we split up, I'm says to him, hey, if we split up, I'm says to him, hey, if we split up, I'm going to like need some things like I going to like need some things like I going to like need some things like I I'm not really focusing on finances and I'm not really focusing on finances and I'm not really focusing on finances and you have so much more than me. You're you have so much more than me. You're you have so much more than me. You're telling me the guy's not going to say, telling me the guy's not going to say, telling me the guy's not going to say, "Yeah, that makes sense." And by the "Yeah, that makes sense." And by the "Yeah, that makes sense." And by the way, when's the time to have that way, when's the time to have that way, when's the time to have that conversation? WHEN YOU'RE MADLY IN LOVE conversation? WHEN YOU'RE MADLY IN LOVE conversation? WHEN YOU'RE MADLY IN LOVE WITH EACH other in the beginning of this WITH EACH other in the beginning of this WITH EACH other in the beginning of this thing when you're on your knee in front thing when you're on your knee in front thing when you're on your knee in front of the restaurant, you know, proposing of the restaurant, you know, proposing of the restaurant, you know, proposing to THE PERSON. YOU DON'T HAVE IT when to THE PERSON. YOU DON'T HAVE IT when to THE PERSON. YOU DON'T HAVE IT when you're breaking up. That's the worst you're breaking up. That's the worst you're breaking up. That's the worst time to have that conversation. Have it time to have that conversation. Have it time to have that conversation. Have it when you're first having that abundance when you're first having that abundance when you're first having that abundance of optimism and connection to each of optimism and connection to each of optimism and connection to each other. And then and then, by the way, other. And then and then, by the way, other. And then and then, by the way, what does he feel unsafe? He feels what does he feel unsafe? He feels what does he feel unsafe? He feels unsafe that he's saying, "Look, I'm unsafe that he's saying, "Look, I'm unsafe that he's saying, "Look, I'm willing to contribute financially to willing to contribute financially to willing to contribute financially to this relationship. Clearly, I've proven this relationship. Clearly, I've proven this relationship. Clearly, I've proven that. I bought you a Birkin bag. I that. I bought you a Birkin bag. I that. I bought you a Birkin bag. I bought you a car. I pay for your bills. bought you a car. I pay for your bills. bought you a car. I pay for your bills. I'm signing on to marry you and to give I'm signing on to marry you and to give I'm signing on to marry you and to give you a wonderful, beautiful life. Are you you a wonderful, beautiful life. Are you you a wonderful, beautiful life. Are you entitled to 100% or 50% of everything entitled to 100% or 50% of everything entitled to 100% or 50% of everything I've ever owned? I have so much more I've ever owned? I have so much more I've ever owned? I have so much more than you right now. Like that seems than you right now. Like that seems than you right now. Like that seems wildly. Do you Are you saying that wildly. Do you Are you saying that wildly. Do you Are you saying that everything I earn from the date of everything I earn from the date of everything I earn from the date of marriage on we should split? Like that's marriage on we should split? Like that's marriage on we should split? Like that's what's great about a prenup. You can what's great about a prenup. You can what's great about a prenup. You can make whatever rules you want to in that make whatever rules you want to in that make whatever rules you want to in that situation. So, I I believe there is situation. So, I I believe there is situation. So, I I believe there is genuine value in having honest genuine value in having honest genuine value in having honest conversations about these things. Look, conversations about these things. Look, conversations about these things. Look, I It's just M&M's. It's just money at I It's just M&M's. It's just money at I It's just M&M's. It's just money at the end of the day. And by the way, this the end of the day. And by the way, this the end of the day. And by the way, this has no more real value than the pieces has no more real value than the pieces has no more real value than the pieces of paper you're holding in your pocket of paper you're holding in your pocket of paper you're holding in your pocket that we've attributed value to. If that we've attributed value to. If that we've attributed value to. If anything, this tastes good. Chew on anything, this tastes good. Chew on anything, this tastes good. Chew on money all you want. It won't help. I did money all you want. It won't help. I did money all you want. It won't help. I did have this conversation with my partner have this conversation with my partner have this conversation with my partner and we we talked about it and she was and we we talked about it and she was and we we talked about it and she was very um she was very supportive of a very um she was very supportive of a very um she was very supportive of a prenup because she also wants one and prenup because she also wants one and prenup because she also wants one and she wants to protect her assets and the she wants to protect her assets and the she wants to protect her assets and the business that she's built and all those business that she's built and all those business that she's built and all those kinds of things which was useful but kinds of things which was useful but kinds of things which was useful but also I acknowledged you know that I'm I also I acknowledged you know that I'm I also I acknowledged you know that I'm I earn more money so in the event that we earn more money so in the event that we earn more money so in the event that we have a big family in the future we have have a big family in the future we have have a big family in the future we have four five kids four five kids four five kids >> you I think I need to contribute more to >> you I think I need to contribute more to >> you I think I need to contribute more to make sure that she's fine in the make sure that she's fine in the make sure that she's fine in the >> I'm not of course but but see this is >> I'm not of course but but see this is >> I'm not of course but but see this is the point you're a reasonable able the point you're a reasonable able the point you're a reasonable able person if your response when she said person if your response when she said person if your response when she said well you know I we may want to have a well you know I we may want to have a well you know I we may want to have a family and you know if we do like you family and you know if we do like you family and you know if we do like you have so much more than me and although have so much more than me and although have so much more than me and although I'm signing off to protect your assets I'm signing off to protect your assets I'm signing off to protect your assets like you know the pursuits I I am really like you know the pursuits I I am really like you know the pursuits I I am really concentrating my day on are not purely concentrating my day on are not purely concentrating my day on are not purely financial they're more for the good of financial they're more for the good of financial they're more for the good of the world or for the good of individuals the world or for the good of individuals the world or for the good of individuals I'm I'm a helper I'm a person who wants I'm I'm a helper I'm a person who wants I'm I'm a helper I'm a person who wants to to to to make the world a better to to to to make the world a better to to to to make the world a better place you know I know a little bit about place you know I know a little bit about place you know I know a little bit about her that I know that these are these are her that I know that these are these are her that I know that these are these are her goals her goal is not to be I want her goals her goal is not to be I want her goals her goal is not to be I want to be the CEO of everything her goals is to be the CEO of everything her goals is to be the CEO of everything her goals is to help the world and to help people. to help the world and to help people. to help the world and to help people. That's beautiful. That's probably one of That's beautiful. That's probably one of That's beautiful. That's probably one of the reasons why you love her so much. the reasons why you love her so much. the reasons why you love her so much. And so, isn't that a conversation the And so, isn't that a conversation the And so, isn't that a conversation the two of you should have now and say, two of you should have now and say, two of you should have now and say, "Well, of course." And by the way, if we "Well, of course." And by the way, if we "Well, of course." And by the way, if we have kids, I'm going to need different have kids, I'm going to need different have kids, I'm going to need different things. What's great about a prenup is things. What's great about a prenup is things. What's great about a prenup is you can make one that says, "If we don't you can make one that says, "If we don't you can make one that says, "If we don't have kids, it's this. If we have kids, have kids, it's this. If we have kids, have kids, it's this. If we have kids, it's this." Like, there's protections it's this." Like, there's protections it's this." Like, there's protections you can put in that make sense to both you can put in that make sense to both you can put in that make sense to both of you. of you. of you. >> What about pets? I've heard about this >> What about pets? I've heard about this >> What about pets? I've heard about this petnup. petnup. petnup. >> Petnup? Yeah. >> Petnup? Yeah. >> Petnup? Yeah. >> What's a petnup? Do people actually >> What's a petnup? Do people actually >> What's a petnup? Do people actually >> Yeah. Yeah. Pet a petnup is I actually >> Yeah. Yeah. Pet a petnup is I actually >> Yeah. Yeah. Pet a petnup is I actually created the site trusted petnup.com and created the site trusted petnup.com and created the site trusted petnup.com and uh it's free. It's 100% free. It's uh if uh it's free. It's 100% free. It's uh if uh it's free. It's 100% free. It's uh if you it's a pay as you wish. So if you you it's a pay as you wish. So if you you it's a pay as you wish. So if you want to to pay anything towards it, 100% want to to pay anything towards it, 100% want to to pay anything towards it, 100% of it goes to animal shelters basically of it goes to animal shelters basically of it goes to animal shelters basically to to 501c3 animal shelters. But to to 501c3 animal shelters. But to to 501c3 animal shelters. But essentially what we have found is essentially what we have found is essentially what we have found is happening more in the legal system right happening more in the legal system right happening more in the legal system right now is the equivalent of custody cases now is the equivalent of custody cases now is the equivalent of custody cases but for companion animals. So people but for companion animals. So people but for companion animals. So people have a dog, people have a cat, people have a dog, people have a cat, people have a dog, people have a cat, people have a bird, people have any combination have a bird, people have any combination have a bird, people have any combination of animals. We feel deeply emotionally of animals. We feel deeply emotionally of animals. We feel deeply emotionally invested in our pets. Um the law for invested in our pets. Um the law for invested in our pets. Um the law for many years looked at pets as what was many years looked at pets as what was many years looked at pets as what was called cattle. Cattle is property. And called cattle. Cattle is property. And called cattle. Cattle is property. And property is essentially like if you property is essentially like if you property is essentially like if you killed someone's dog, you owed them the killed someone's dog, you owed them the killed someone's dog, you owed them the replacement value of the dog. replacement value of the dog. replacement value of the dog. >> What do you tend to see from a legal >> What do you tend to see from a legal >> What do you tend to see from a legal perspective here? Is it that at one perspective here? Is it that at one perspective here? Is it that at one point they bought a pet together, they point they bought a pet together, they point they bought a pet together, they never really clarified who owns the pet. never really clarified who owns the pet. never really clarified who owns the pet. They go through a divorce. They're both They go through a divorce. They're both They go through a divorce. They're both arguing over the pet. arguing over the pet. arguing over the pet. >> That happened a lot. Yeah, that was the >> That happened a lot. Yeah, that was the >> That happened a lot. Yeah, that was the most common permutation. Sometimes it most common permutation. Sometimes it most common permutation. Sometimes it was they got a pet together while they was they got a pet together while they was they got a pet together while they were dating were dating were dating >> and one of them was living, you know, in >> and one of them was living, you know, in >> and one of them was living, you know, in their own apartment or whatever and the their own apartment or whatever and the their own apartment or whatever and the dog or cat was living with them and then dog or cat was living with them and then dog or cat was living with them and then they merged their homes and now they they merged their homes and now they they merged their homes and now they both grow deeply attached to this animal both grow deeply attached to this animal both grow deeply attached to this animal and you know they've spent 5 years or 10 and you know they've spent 5 years or 10 and you know they've spent 5 years or 10 years together with this animal and now years together with this animal and now years together with this animal and now they both like a child. They both have they both like a child. They both have they both like a child. They both have this like a stepchild is very similar this like a stepchild is very similar this like a stepchild is very similar like it's not my blood child but it's like it's not my blood child but it's like it's not my blood child but it's you know someone who I've spent a long you know someone who I've spent a long you know someone who I've spent a long time with and been part of their care time with and been part of their care time with and been part of their care and I mean something to them. and I mean something to them. and I mean something to them. >> What's the legal what's what is the >> What's the legal what's what is the >> What's the legal what's what is the >> Well, for many many years pets were >> Well, for many many years pets were >> Well, for many many years pets were considered chatt. They were considered considered chatt. They were considered considered chatt. They were considered property. So, you know, I I remember a property. So, you know, I I remember a property. So, you know, I I remember a case in New York County where the case in New York County where the case in New York County where the parties could not agree on what to do parties could not agree on what to do parties could not agree on what to do with the dog, like who would keep the with the dog, like who would keep the with the dog, like who would keep the dog and the judge said, "Okay, I'm dog and the judge said, "Okay, I'm dog and the judge said, "Okay, I'm ordering the dog to be sold and the ordering the dog to be sold and the ordering the dog to be sold and the proceeds divided." And of course, the proceeds divided." And of course, the proceeds divided." And of course, the people then went outside and figured, it people then went outside and figured, it people then went outside and figured, it was very Solomonike. The people went was very Solomonike. The people went was very Solomonike. The people went outside and figured out a visitation outside and figured out a visitation outside and figured out a visitation schedule for the dog. But what we're schedule for the dog. But what we're schedule for the dog. But what we're just saying is just like anything in a just saying is just like anything in a just saying is just like anything in a prenup, do this in advance. Just do this prenup, do this in advance. Just do this prenup, do this in advance. Just do this in advance. You have a pet, have a in advance. You have a pet, have a in advance. You have a pet, have a petup. Even if you're not getting petup. Even if you're not getting petup. Even if you're not getting married, if you're cohabitating or married, if you're cohabitating or married, if you're cohabitating or you're dating someone, have a contract you're dating someone, have a contract you're dating someone, have a contract that says, "We both [snorts] care about that says, "We both [snorts] care about that says, "We both [snorts] care about this animal. We've adopted this animal this animal. We've adopted this animal this animal. We've adopted this animal or we purchased this animal or we or we purchased this animal or we or we purchased this animal or we brought this animal into our lives. And brought this animal into our lives. And brought this animal into our lives. And now in the event that the our now in the event that the our now in the event that the our relationship ends, here's what the rules relationship ends, here's what the rules relationship ends, here's what the rules will be. We will jointly make important will be. We will jointly make important will be. We will jointly make important medical decisions and be guided by the medical decisions and be guided by the medical decisions and be guided by the veterinarian's you know perspective. Um veterinarian's you know perspective. Um veterinarian's you know perspective. Um if if either of us ever is going to give if if either of us ever is going to give if if either of us ever is going to give up the animal for adoption, the other up the animal for adoption, the other up the animal for adoption, the other person will have the automatic right to person will have the automatic right to person will have the automatic right to adopt the animal. If the time eventually adopt the animal. If the time eventually adopt the animal. If the time eventually comes where there has been a comes where there has been a comes where there has been a recommendation of euthanasia by we will recommendation of euthanasia by we will recommendation of euthanasia by we will both be entitled to be there when we say both be entitled to be there when we say both be entitled to be there when we say goodbye to that dog or we'll both be goodbye to that dog or we'll both be goodbye to that dog or we'll both be entitled to jointly agree on where that entitled to jointly agree on where that entitled to jointly agree on where that animal's ashes will be or where they'll animal's ashes will be or where they'll animal's ashes will be or where they'll be buried or we'll each be entitled to be buried or we'll each be entitled to be buried or we'll each be entitled to one half of the ashes or we'll have a one half of the ashes or we'll have a one half of the ashes or we'll have a visitation schedule for the dog in the visitation schedule for the dog in the visitation schedule for the dog in the event that we separate. That's what a event that we separate. That's what a event that we separate. That's what a petnup is. A petup is a contract between petnup is. A petup is a contract between petnup is. A petup is a contract between two people. Look, just like kids, two people. Look, just like kids, two people. Look, just like kids, pets didn't ask for this. Pets didn't pets didn't ask for this. Pets didn't pets didn't ask for this. Pets didn't ask for you guys to break up. It's not ask for you guys to break up. It's not ask for you guys to break up. It's not their fault. Like, I don't know anybody their fault. Like, I don't know anybody their fault. Like, I don't know anybody that ever broke up because of the dog or that ever broke up because of the dog or that ever broke up because of the dog or the cat. I'm sure there's somebody out the cat. I'm sure there's somebody out the cat. I'm sure there's somebody out there, but that's not what it's about. there, but that's not what it's about. there, but that's not what it's about. So, it is very, very useful to have in So, it is very, very useful to have in So, it is very, very useful to have in advance a rule set. I like rules in advance a rule set. I like rules in advance a rule set. I like rules in advance. I like to know the rules of the advance. I like to know the rules of the advance. I like to know the rules of the game that we're playing because we can game that we're playing because we can game that we're playing because we can adjust our behavior accordingly. adjust our behavior accordingly. adjust our behavior accordingly. >> Is um divorce increasing statistically? >> Is um divorce increasing statistically? >> Is um divorce increasing statistically? So it's the most recent statistic is the So it's the most recent statistic is the So it's the most recent statistic is the divorce rate is slowly going up. It was divorce rate is slowly going up. It was divorce rate is slowly going up. It was low. It had it had gone down. It went low. It had it had gone down. It went low. It had it had gone down. It went down during the pandemic. Part of that down during the pandemic. Part of that down during the pandemic. Part of that was a function of access to the court was a function of access to the court was a function of access to the court system. When again when you're looking system. When again when you're looking system. When again when you're looking at the divorce rate, the divorce rate is at the divorce rate, the divorce rate is at the divorce rate, the divorce rate is calculated based on the filing of what's calculated based on the filing of what's calculated based on the filing of what's called certificate of dissolution of called certificate of dissolution of called certificate of dissolution of marriage, which is the final document marriage, which is the final document marriage, which is the final document that's filed with the state by the court that's filed with the state by the court that's filed with the state by the court system when a divorce has been system when a divorce has been system when a divorce has been finalized. So all you're really seeing finalized. So all you're really seeing finalized. So all you're really seeing there is what marriages catastrophically there is what marriages catastrophically there is what marriages catastrophically failed and and there was a judgment of failed and and there was a judgment of failed and and there was a judgment of divorce center. There are many people divorce center. There are many people divorce center. There are many people that just go out for milk and never come that just go out for milk and never come that just go out for milk and never come back or they physically separate and back or they physically separate and back or they physically separate and then they never finalize the divorce. then they never finalize the divorce. then they never finalize the divorce. They're not factored into that They're not factored into that They're not factored into that statistic. statistic. statistic. >> So and the people who quietly stay >> So and the people who quietly stay >> So and the people who quietly stay together miserable or live in different together miserable or live in different together miserable or live in different places and just move out and never places and just move out and never places and just move out and never finalize their divorce. That that that finalize their divorce. That that that finalize their divorce. That that that statistic doesn't include any of those statistic doesn't include any of those statistic doesn't include any of those people. These are just the people that people. These are just the people that people. These are just the people that it actually ended in divorce and that it actually ended in divorce and that it actually ended in divorce and that divorce was registered with the state. divorce was registered with the state. divorce was registered with the state. But the divorce rate went down and then But the divorce rate went down and then But the divorce rate went down and then it the divorce filing rate spiked when it the divorce filing rate spiked when it the divorce filing rate spiked when the court systems opened back up post the court systems opened back up post the court systems opened back up post pandemic and now it's steadily going pandemic and now it's steadily going pandemic and now it's steadily going back up again. Now what's interesting is back up again. Now what's interesting is back up again. Now what's interesting is the marriage rate is going down and the the marriage rate is going down and the the marriage rate is going down and the average age at which people marry is average age at which people marry is average age at which people marry is going up. I was looking at the going up. I was looking at the going up. I was looking at the generational divide here and it says generational divide here and it says generational divide here and it says younger couples so millennials and Gen Z younger couples so millennials and Gen Z younger couples so millennials and Gen Z divorce rates have plummeted. They are divorce rates have plummeted. They are divorce rates have plummeted. They are marrying later, cohabiting first and marrying later, cohabiting first and marrying later, cohabiting first and statistically more selective leading to statistically more selective leading to statistically more selective leading to more stable marriages. However, there is more stable marriages. However, there is more stable marriages. However, there is something called the gray divorce. something called the gray divorce. something called the gray divorce. Divorce rates for people over 50 um they Divorce rates for people over 50 um they Divorce rates for people over 50 um they refer to as gray divorce has doubled refer to as gray divorce has doubled refer to as gray divorce has doubled since 1990 and tripled for those over since 1990 and tripled for those over since 1990 and tripled for those over 65. 65. 65. >> Yeah, great divorce is a uh something >> Yeah, great divorce is a uh something >> Yeah, great divorce is a uh something that a lot of divorce lawyers are that a lot of divorce lawyers are that a lot of divorce lawyers are thinking and talking a lot about right thinking and talking a lot about right thinking and talking a lot about right now, which is that first of all, people now, which is that first of all, people now, which is that first of all, people are living much longer. people are are living much longer. people are are living much longer. people are living in a different way much longer living in a different way much longer living in a different way much longer thanks to things like erectile thanks to things like erectile thanks to things like erectile dysfunction medication. Like you know an dysfunction medication. Like you know an dysfunction medication. Like you know an 80year-old having you know a active sex 80year-old having you know a active sex 80year-old having you know a active sex life is not something that really life is not something that really life is not something that really existed so often prior to the existed so often prior to the existed so often prior to the pharmaceutical advent of erectile pharmaceutical advent of erectile pharmaceutical advent of erectile dysfunction drugs which really only dysfunction drugs which really only dysfunction drugs which really only occurred in the last 20 years. So occurred in the last 20 years. So occurred in the last 20 years. So there's a big change in in what a there's a big change in in what a there's a big change in in what a 70year-old or 80year-old's quality of 70year-old or 80year-old's quality of 70year-old or 80year-old's quality of life is and what they look like and what life is and what they look like and what life is and what they look like and what their health is like. So, you know, with their health is like. So, you know, with their health is like. So, you know, with with uh hormone replacement therapy, with uh hormone replacement therapy, with uh hormone replacement therapy, with you know, all the different with you know, all the different with you know, all the different medications that are out there, people medications that are out there, people medications that are out there, people are living more uh sexually are living more uh sexually are living more uh sexually uh you know, and romantically charged uh you know, and romantically charged uh you know, and romantically charged lives in their elder years than they lives in their elder years than they lives in their elder years than they used to, which often leads people to used to, which often leads people to used to, which often leads people to say, you know what, I've got 10 more say, you know what, I've got 10 more say, you know what, I've got 10 more years. I'm not going to stay in this years. I'm not going to stay in this years. I'm not going to stay in this unhappy relationship and I'm going to unhappy relationship and I'm going to unhappy relationship and I'm going to split up. I actually don't think, by the split up. I actually don't think, by the split up. I actually don't think, by the way, that those two statistics that you way, that those two statistics that you way, that those two statistics that you just talked about are unrelated. I think just talked about are unrelated. I think just talked about are unrelated. I think millennials, they they haven't been millennials, they they haven't been millennials, they they haven't been married for that long yet. Like the married for that long yet. Like the married for that long yet. Like the question of catastrophic failure of a question of catastrophic failure of a question of catastrophic failure of a marriage, like I I've said it before marriage, like I I've said it before marriage, like I I've said it before that people get divorced the same way that people get divorced the same way that people get divorced the same way they go bankrupt, very slowly and then they go bankrupt, very slowly and then they go bankrupt, very slowly and then all at once. What two of the reasons all at once. What two of the reasons all at once. What two of the reasons given in the research I did as well were given in the research I did as well were given in the research I did as well were quite quite quite quite quite quite unobvious on the surface. One of them is unobvious on the surface. One of them is unobvious on the surface. One of them is that women in this generation, boomers that women in this generation, boomers that women in this generation, boomers and Gen Z, are more likely to have their and Gen Z, are more likely to have their and Gen Z, are more likely to have their own careers and retirement savings than own careers and retirement savings than own careers and retirement savings than previous generations, meaning they can previous generations, meaning they can previous generations, meaning they can afford to leave unhappy marriages. And afford to leave unhappy marriages. And afford to leave unhappy marriages. And when I've spoken with menopause experts when I've spoken with menopause experts when I've spoken with menopause experts and so on, they they've told me they see and so on, they they've told me they see and so on, they they've told me they see this often that in this season of life, this often that in this season of life, this often that in this season of life, women will, you know, make a decision to women will, you know, make a decision to women will, you know, make a decision to to leave. And the other one is the to leave. And the other one is the to leave. And the other one is the reduced stigma about divorce. reduced stigma about divorce. reduced stigma about divorce. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So divorce is no longer seen as a moral >> So divorce is no longer seen as a moral >> So divorce is no longer seen as a moral failure, making it socially easier to failure, making it socially easier to failure, making it socially easier to split later in life. split later in life. split later in life. >> I believe that that's true. I think that >> I believe that that's true. I think that >> I believe that that's true. I think that we've definitely changed the manner in we've definitely changed the manner in we've definitely changed the manner in which we relate to divorce. We no longer which we relate to divorce. We no longer which we relate to divorce. We no longer consider it a catastrophic failure consider it a catastrophic failure consider it a catastrophic failure socially. I think that we often see it socially. I think that we often see it socially. I think that we often see it as the ending of a chapter and the as the ending of a chapter and the as the ending of a chapter and the beginning of a new one. I don't think beginning of a new one. I don't think beginning of a new one. I don't think that that's bad. I think distigmatizing that that's bad. I think distigmatizing that that's bad. I think distigmatizing divorce and seeing that, okay, sometimes divorce and seeing that, okay, sometimes divorce and seeing that, okay, sometimes it is better for people when the it is better for people when the it is better for people when the relationship is no longer working for relationship is no longer working for relationship is no longer working for both of them and they've done the things both of them and they've done the things both of them and they've done the things they've tried to do to make it work and they've tried to do to make it work and they've tried to do to make it work and they've decided that happily ever after they've decided that happily ever after they've decided that happily ever after means happily ever after separately. I means happily ever after separately. I means happily ever after separately. I don't think that's necessarily a bad don't think that's necessarily a bad don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Similarly, you could make the thing. Similarly, you could make the thing. Similarly, you could make the argument that one of the reasons argument that one of the reasons argument that one of the reasons millennials, and again, only time will millennials, and again, only time will millennials, and again, only time will tell, that millennials are better at uh tell, that millennials are better at uh tell, that millennials are better at uh staying married is going to be that they staying married is going to be that they staying married is going to be that they go into it with more realistic go into it with more realistic go into it with more realistic expectations. They don't go into it with expectations. They don't go into it with expectations. They don't go into it with the expectation that this person is the expectation that this person is the expectation that this person is going to be their everything. They they going to be their everything. They they going to be their everything. They they look at it and go, "Yeah, as a human look at it and go, "Yeah, as a human look at it and go, "Yeah, as a human being, I'm marrying another human being. being, I'm marrying another human being. being, I'm marrying another human being. I haven't quite figured myself out." I haven't quite figured myself out." I haven't quite figured myself out." >> Which of your books was more popular? >> Which of your books was more popular? >> Which of your books was more popular? How not to [ __ ] up your marriage, How not to [ __ ] up your marriage, How not to [ __ ] up your marriage, straight talk from a divorce lawyer straight talk from a divorce lawyer straight talk from a divorce lawyer who's seen it all, or how to stay in who's seen it all, or how to stay in who's seen it all, or how to stay in love? So, How to Stay in Love has been love? So, How to Stay in Love has been love? So, How to Stay in Love has been out longer. Yeah. So, it's done quite out longer. Yeah. So, it's done quite out longer. Yeah. So, it's done quite well um over the period of time. It's in well um over the period of time. It's in well um over the period of time. It's in its fourth printing right now. its fourth printing right now. its fourth printing right now. >> And what what about this book do you >> And what what about this book do you >> And what what about this book do you think was resonant? Is there a think was resonant? Is there a think was resonant? Is there a particular idea that was number one in particular idea that was number one in particular idea that was number one in this book? this book? this book? >> I think a it was the first book written >> I think a it was the first book written >> I think a it was the first book written by a divorce lawyer to headon take on by a divorce lawyer to headon take on by a divorce lawyer to headon take on the topic of how to not get divorced. It the topic of how to not get divorced. It the topic of how to not get divorced. It was a how not to book basically. So, I was a how not to book basically. So, I was a how not to book basically. So, I think that that was the the key concept think that that was the the key concept think that that was the the key concept was uh keeping people connected and and was uh keeping people connected and and was uh keeping people connected and and what you could learn. Look, who are you what you could learn. Look, who are you what you could learn. Look, who are you going to go to if you want to learn how going to go to if you want to learn how going to go to if you want to learn how to keep your car in good condition? A to keep your car in good condition? A to keep your car in good condition? A new car dealer or a mechanic? Like, a new car dealer or a mechanic? Like, a new car dealer or a mechanic? Like, a new car dealer only sees brand new cars. new car dealer only sees brand new cars. new car dealer only sees brand new cars. They don't know anything about, you They don't know anything about, you They don't know anything about, you know, about how to actually keep one know, about how to actually keep one know, about how to actually keep one together. Mechanics are good at that. We together. Mechanics are good at that. We together. Mechanics are good at that. We tell you where the predictable points of tell you where the predictable points of tell you where the predictable points of failure are. So, I think that was what failure are. So, I think that was what failure are. So, I think that was what made the book popular. What's the most made the book popular. What's the most made the book popular. What's the most important thing we didn't talk about important thing we didn't talk about important thing we didn't talk about that we should have talked about as it that we should have talked about as it that we should have talked about as it pertains to the subject of holding on to pertains to the subject of holding on to pertains to the subject of holding on to this very precious thing and very this very precious thing and very this very precious thing and very elusive thing for many called love? elusive thing for many called love? elusive thing for many called love? >> You know, something I've been thinking a >> You know, something I've been thinking a >> You know, something I've been thinking a lot about lately is two, lot about lately is two, lot about lately is two, and I say this to you as an engaged man and I say this to you as an engaged man and I say this to you as an engaged man and as a friend. and as a friend. and as a friend. I think there's two seemingly I think there's two seemingly I think there's two seemingly contradictory contradictory contradictory assumptions people make when they get assumptions people make when they get assumptions people make when they get married that I hope you're not making. married that I hope you're not making. married that I hope you're not making. Okay? I hope this couple neither person Okay? I hope this couple neither person Okay? I hope this couple neither person in this couple is making in this couple is making in this couple is making one one one is thinking that is thinking that is thinking that marriage will change the other person. marriage will change the other person. marriage will change the other person. So, you know, Steven works so much and So, you know, Steven works so much and So, you know, Steven works so much and he's so hard charging, but once we get he's so hard charging, but once we get he's so hard charging, but once we get married, he'll come home more and he'll married, he'll come home more and he'll married, he'll come home more and he'll be home more and he'll calm down more. be home more and he'll calm down more. be home more and he'll calm down more. You know, she's uh uh you know, very You know, she's uh uh you know, very You know, she's uh uh you know, very worried about me when I'm I'm making worried about me when I'm I'm making worried about me when I'm I'm making something up, but she's worried about me something up, but she's worried about me something up, but she's worried about me when I'm out and on the road and she's when I'm out and on the road and she's when I'm out and on the road and she's worried about temptation bothering me. worried about temptation bothering me. worried about temptation bothering me. But once we're married, she'll know we But once we're married, she'll know we But once we're married, she'll know we have a really solid commitment. She have a really solid commitment. She have a really solid commitment. She won't have that worry anymore. Okay? won't have that worry anymore. Okay? won't have that worry anymore. Okay? Thinking that marriage is going to Thinking that marriage is going to Thinking that marriage is going to change someone is a very dangerous change someone is a very dangerous change someone is a very dangerous assumption. And a lot of the people that assumption. And a lot of the people that assumption. And a lot of the people that come into my office, they entered come into my office, they entered come into my office, they entered marriage thinking this is going to marriage thinking this is going to marriage thinking this is going to change things that I want to see change things that I want to see change things that I want to see changed. changed. changed. The contradictory second thing is The contradictory second thing is The contradictory second thing is thinking once we get married nothing thinking once we get married nothing thinking once we get married nothing will change. will change. will change. thinking, "This is so lovely. She's so thinking, "This is so lovely. She's so thinking, "This is so lovely. She's so wonderful. I love the version of me she wonderful. I love the version of me she wonderful. I love the version of me she brings out. So, I'm so wonderful when brings out. So, I'm so wonderful when brings out. So, I'm so wonderful when I'm with her." And her thinking, "He's I'm with her." And her thinking, "He's I'm with her." And her thinking, "He's so wonderful, and I love who he how he so wonderful, and I love who he how he so wonderful, and I love who he how he makes me." Because, you know, we don't makes me." Because, you know, we don't makes me." Because, you know, we don't just love the person. We love the person just love the person. We love the person just love the person. We love the person we are when we're with that person. We we are when we're with that person. We we are when we're with that person. We love how that person makes us feel about love how that person makes us feel about love how that person makes us feel about ourselves. That's a lovely thing. It's ourselves. That's a lovely thing. It's ourselves. That's a lovely thing. It's one of the best things about love, one of the best things about love, one of the best things about love, right? So making the assumption that right? So making the assumption that right? So making the assumption that that will never change that nothing that will never change that nothing that will never change that nothing about this rel that marrying will about this rel that marrying will about this rel that marrying will somehow build a wall around this somehow build a wall around this somehow build a wall around this beautiful wonderful warm thing that we beautiful wonderful warm thing that we beautiful wonderful warm thing that we found together and it'll protect it from found together and it'll protect it from found together and it'll protect it from all the other things in the world and all the other things in the world and all the other things in the world and nothing will change and it'll just stay nothing will change and it'll just stay nothing will change and it'll just stay wonderful is another very dangerous wonderful is another very dangerous wonderful is another very dangerous assumption. So even though it seems like assumption. So even though it seems like assumption. So even though it seems like a contradiction, a contradiction, a contradiction, I hope that things change and I hope I hope that things change and I hope I hope that things change and I hope some things don't change. And the only some things don't change. And the only some things don't change. And the only way that I can think of to let those two way that I can think of to let those two way that I can think of to let those two contradictory elements peacefully contradictory elements peacefully contradictory elements peacefully coexist in a manner that doesn't lead coexist in a manner that doesn't lead coexist in a manner that doesn't lead directly to the desk in front of me is directly to the desk in front of me is directly to the desk in front of me is to just keep talking about it. And when to just keep talking about it. And when to just keep talking about it. And when things change, just talk about it. Just things change, just talk about it. Just things change, just talk about it. Just point it out. Not with judgment, not point it out. Not with judgment, not point it out. Not with judgment, not with anger, not with the belief that with anger, not with the belief that with anger, not with the belief that because something changed it's bad. And because something changed it's bad. And because something changed it's bad. And not with the change that change is not with the change that change is not with the change that change is automatically good. Just saying, "Hey, automatically good. Just saying, "Hey, automatically good. Just saying, "Hey, remember these two people? remember these two people? remember these two people? That guy's a little different now. Is That guy's a little different now. Is That guy's a little different now. Is that okay? Why did that happen? Is it a that okay? Why did that happen? Is it a that okay? Why did that happen? Is it a good thing? Is it a bad thing? Do you good thing? Is it a bad thing? Do you good thing? Is it a bad thing? Do you miss him? Is there something that we miss him? Is there something that we miss him? Is there something that we could do that's different or better?" could do that's different or better?" could do that's different or better?" Like these two people found value in Like these two people found value in Like these two people found value in each other. They they love the other each other. They they love the other each other. They they love the other person and they love who they are when person and they love who they are when person and they love who they are when they're with the person. And again, I'll they're with the person. And again, I'll they're with the person. And again, I'll I'll say it again. Your marriage will I'll say it again. Your marriage will I'll say it again. Your marriage will end. I promise. I hope it ends in death. end. I promise. I hope it ends in death. end. I promise. I hope it ends in death. And I hope when it ends that you will And I hope when it ends that you will And I hope when it ends that you will look at her and you will say, "She look at her and you will say, "She look at her and you will say, "She helped me become the most authentic helped me become the most authentic helped me become the most authentic version of myself and she's still my version of myself and she's still my version of myself and she's still my favorite person." favorite person." favorite person." That's the greatest gift that you could That's the greatest gift that you could That's the greatest gift that you could give to her and that you can give to give to her and that you can give to give to her and that you can give to each other and that I think the two of each other and that I think the two of each other and that I think the two of you together could give to the world. Why do you point to authenticity as Why do you point to authenticity as being so important in this context? being so important in this context? being so important in this context? Because you use that word, she helped me Because you use that word, she helped me Because you use that word, she helped me become the most authentic version of become the most authentic version of become the most authentic version of myself. Why does that matter? Because myself. Why does that matter? Because myself. Why does that matter? Because it's not about becoming the version of it's not about becoming the version of it's not about becoming the version of you that she envisions for you or her you that she envisions for you or her you that she envisions for you or her becoming who you want her to become. I becoming who you want her to become. I becoming who you want her to become. I think that sometimes love think that sometimes love think that sometimes love the person doesn't become what we wanted the person doesn't become what we wanted the person doesn't become what we wanted them to be. And I think sometimes what them to be. And I think sometimes what them to be. And I think sometimes what we wanted them to be might not be the we wanted them to be might not be the we wanted them to be might not be the most authentic version of who they are. most authentic version of who they are. most authentic version of who they are. You know Cahel Gabbron in the prophet You know Cahel Gabbron in the prophet You know Cahel Gabbron in the prophet when he's talking about children he says when he's talking about children he says when he's talking about children he says that children are living arrows. that children are living arrows. that children are living arrows. and and and that you you fire the arrow and and and that you you fire the arrow and and and that you you fire the arrow and yes, your aim has something to do and yes, your aim has something to do and yes, your aim has something to do with it, but the wind has something to with it, but the wind has something to with it, but the wind has something to do with it and so many other things have do with it and so many other things have do with it and so many other things have something to do with it. And so, you something to do with it. And so, you something to do with it. And so, you know, God loves the archer with the know, God loves the archer with the know, God loves the archer with the steady hand and the arrow that's steady hand and the arrow that's steady hand and the arrow that's straight. And I feel like if you were to straight. And I feel like if you were to straight. And I feel like if you were to say say say this person became who I wanted them to this person became who I wanted them to this person became who I wanted them to become like because again I think our become like because again I think our become like because again I think our duty in the best symbiosis. duty in the best symbiosis. duty in the best symbiosis. You You You care a lot about her even more so than care a lot about her even more so than care a lot about her even more so than you do about yourself. And she cares you do about yourself. And she cares you do about yourself. And she cares about you even more so than she does about you even more so than she does about you even more so than she does about herself. but not to have you about herself. but not to have you about herself. but not to have you become the man she wants you to be and become the man she wants you to be and become the man she wants you to be and not for her to become the woman you want not for her to become the woman you want not for her to become the woman you want her to be. You want to be of service to her to be. You want to be of service to her to be. You want to be of service to her and she wants to be of service to her and she wants to be of service to her and she wants to be of service to you. I want to help you become the most you. I want to help you become the most you. I want to help you become the most authentic version of you. I can see your authentic version of you. I can see your authentic version of you. I can see your blind spots. You can't. That's why blind spots. You can't. That's why blind spots. You can't. That's why they're blind spots. So, I'm going to they're blind spots. So, I'm going to they're blind spots. So, I'm going to help you become the most authentic help you become the most authentic help you become the most authentic version of yourself. That's the promise. version of yourself. That's the promise. version of yourself. That's the promise. That should be the promise in marriage That should be the promise in marriage That should be the promise in marriage is I want to help you become I'm going is I want to help you become I'm going is I want to help you become I'm going to do what I can to be of service to to do what I can to be of service to to do what I can to be of service to helping you become the most authentic helping you become the most authentic helping you become the most authentic version of yourself. And when you become version of yourself. And when you become version of yourself. And when you become it, you'll still be my favorite person it, you'll still be my favorite person it, you'll still be my favorite person because at the core of you is this thing because at the core of you is this thing because at the core of you is this thing that I love. >> I hope I do a good job. >> I hope I do a good job. >> I hope you do, too. >> I hope you do, too. >> I hope you do, too. >> Scary, isn't it? Cuz you think of all >> Scary, isn't it? Cuz you think of all >> Scary, isn't it? Cuz you think of all the ways you can [ __ ] it up. It's like, the ways you can [ __ ] it up. It's like, the ways you can [ __ ] it up. It's like, do you know what I mean? do you know what I mean? do you know what I mean? >> But you know what? There's so many ways. >> But you know what? There's so many ways. >> But you know what? There's so many ways. >> That's why it's brave. Like, if you're >> That's why it's brave. Like, if you're >> That's why it's brave. Like, if you're not scared, it's not brave. not scared, it's not brave. not scared, it's not brave. >> It's brave cuz you're scared and you do >> It's brave cuz you're scared and you do >> It's brave cuz you're scared and you do it anyway. it anyway. it anyway. >> And it's worth doing it. Because if the >> And it's worth doing it. Because if the >> And it's worth doing it. Because if the prize at the end of it is figuring out prize at the end of it is figuring out prize at the end of it is figuring out who you are and helping someone figure who you are and helping someone figure who you are and helping someone figure out who they are and having a partner in out who they are and having a partner in out who they are and having a partner in all of this, like, what's better than all of this, like, what's better than all of this, like, what's better than that, man? What what riches could you that, man? What what riches could you that, man? What what riches could you hold that are greater than that? Like, hold that are greater than that? Like, hold that are greater than that? Like, that's the greatest gift you could seek that's the greatest gift you could seek that's the greatest gift you could seek in life. And and by the way, it also has in life. And and by the way, it also has in life. And and by the way, it also has the power, if it's done right, to the power, if it's done right, to the power, if it's done right, to transform the world because it really is transform the world because it really is transform the world because it really is family, community, family, community, family, community, culture, world, you know, and so yeah, culture, world, you know, and so yeah, culture, world, you know, and so yeah, it's it's the fact that you say it's it's it's the fact that you say it's it's it's the fact that you say it's scary is great because it means you scary is great because it means you scary is great because it means you realize this is a serious thing and realize this is a serious thing and realize this is a serious thing and something that you realize is serious, something that you realize is serious, something that you realize is serious, you're going to make a concerted effort you're going to make a concerted effort you're going to make a concerted effort to be good at. to be good at. to be good at. Amen. We have a closing tradition. As Amen. We have a closing tradition. As Amen. We have a closing tradition. As you know, the question left for you is, you know, the question left for you is, you know, the question left for you is, what is the most significant dream you what is the most significant dream you what is the most significant dream you have had in the past year and how did it have had in the past year and how did it have had in the past year and how did it change your behavior? [sighs] [sighs] Go on. I know. I want to get through Go on. I know. I want to get through Go on. I know. I want to get through this without crying. I had a uh I had a this without crying. I had a uh I had a this without crying. I had a uh I had a dream about my mom. My mom died 10 years ago after a long My mom died 10 years ago after a long battle with cancer. battle with cancer. battle with cancer. There was a lot between us that needed There was a lot between us that needed There was a lot between us that needed to be said and wasn't said. to be said and wasn't said. to be said and wasn't said. We had some peace and some closure, but We had some peace and some closure, but We had some peace and some closure, but there's a lot I didn't hadn't figured there's a lot I didn't hadn't figured there's a lot I didn't hadn't figured out about myself out about myself out about myself by the time she passed. And there's a by the time she passed. And there's a by the time she passed. And there's a part of me that wishes she was here so part of me that wishes she was here so part of me that wishes she was here so that I could have apologized for some that I could have apologized for some that I could have apologized for some things I got wrong and I could have things I got wrong and I could have things I got wrong and I could have understood her better. understood her better. understood her better. And I had a dream [clears throat] And I had a dream [clears throat] And I had a dream [clears throat] that she was just there that she was just there that she was just there just sitting with me. And my mom was like me. She never shut And my mom was like me. She never shut up. She would just constantly talk and up. She would just constantly talk and up. She would just constantly talk and talk over you. And talk over you. And talk over you. And I got that from her. Her very energetic. I got that from her. Her very energetic. I got that from her. Her very energetic. She also cried constantly and for for She also cried constantly and for for She also cried constantly and for for joy, tears of joy. She would listen to joy, tears of joy. She would listen to joy, tears of joy. She would listen to music and just start crying because it music and just start crying because it music and just start crying because it was so beautiful. I realized I got that was so beautiful. I realized I got that was so beautiful. I realized I got that from her. Most of the really warm things from her. Most of the really warm things from her. Most of the really warm things in me came from her. in me came from her. in me came from her. And in this dream, she just sat there And in this dream, she just sat there And in this dream, she just sat there silently silently silently and I kept talking to her. I don't and I kept talking to her. I don't and I kept talking to her. I don't remember what I was saying, but I just remember what I was saying, but I just remember what I was saying, but I just kept talking to her. kept talking to her. kept talking to her. And she just sat there quietly and just And she just sat there quietly and just And she just sat there quietly and just was patting my leg. And I I remember I woke up And I I remember I woke up and I felt and I felt and I felt I felt very like calm. I felt very like I felt very like calm. I felt very like I felt very like calm. I felt very like I'd spent time with her. [snorts] I'd spent time with her. [snorts] I'd spent time with her. [snorts] And I thought to myself, I think that And I thought to myself, I think that And I thought to myself, I think that that was something. I don't know if it that was something. I don't know if it that was something. I don't know if it was her visiting me. I don't know if it was her visiting me. I don't know if it was her visiting me. I don't know if it was God talking to me. I don't know if was God talking to me. I don't know if was God talking to me. I don't know if it was just my subconscious telling me it was just my subconscious telling me it was just my subconscious telling me something I needed to see. [snorts] something I needed to see. [snorts] something I needed to see. [snorts] But I felt like it was saying to me But I felt like it was saying to me But I felt like it was saying to me that, that, that, you know, that sometimes the words got you know, that sometimes the words got you know, that sometimes the words got in the way between the two of us in the way between the two of us in the way between the two of us and that maybe what really mattered the and that maybe what really mattered the and that maybe what really mattered the most was just that we were next to each most was just that we were next to each most was just that we were next to each other. other. other. And I tried to And I tried to And I tried to since I had that dream since I had that dream since I had that dream um [clears throat] um [clears throat] um [clears throat] do that more with the people I love. do that more with the people I love. do that more with the people I love. It's It's hard for me to stop talking. It's It's hard for me to stop talking. It's It's hard for me to stop talking. And I'm learning And I'm learning And I'm learning with my sons and with the people that I with my sons and with the people that I with my sons and with the people that I love that sometimes just being next to love that sometimes just being next to love that sometimes just being next to them is nice. That I don't need to uh them is nice. That I don't need to uh them is nice. That I don't need to uh I'm really good at talking, so I just I'm really good at talking, so I just I'm really good at talking, so I just keep doing it. And that maybe sometimes keep doing it. And that maybe sometimes keep doing it. And that maybe sometimes it's nice to just stop and just be with it's nice to just stop and just be with it's nice to just stop and just be with someone. someone. someone. And so I felt like that that was a very And so I felt like that that was a very And so I felt like that that was a very powerful dream. It was a very simple powerful dream. It was a very simple powerful dream. It was a very simple dream, but it was one that it it changed dream, but it was one that it it changed dream, but it was one that it it changed the way I'm trying to relate to people. the way I'm trying to relate to people. the way I'm trying to relate to people. [snorts] [snorts] [snorts] So you got me to cry again, man. Killing So you got me to cry again, man. Killing So you got me to cry again, man. Killing me. me. me. >> At the end of [snorts] the day, it all >> At the end of [snorts] the day, it all >> At the end of [snorts] the day, it all comes back to love, doesn't it? comes back to love, doesn't it? comes back to love, doesn't it? >> Yeah, it does. Isn't it funny? >> Yeah, it does. Isn't it funny? >> Yeah, it does. Isn't it funny? >> All roads. >> All roads. >> All roads. >> Isn't it funny? Like we've added all >> Isn't it funny? Like we've added all >> Isn't it funny? Like we've added all these layers of complexity to it, and these layers of complexity to it, and these layers of complexity to it, and that's all it comes down to. too. Isn't that's all it comes down to. too. Isn't that's all it comes down to. too. Isn't it crazy? it crazy? it crazy? >> Yeah, it really is. >> Yeah, it really is. >> Yeah, it really is. >> Someone asked me that on stage that like >> Someone asked me that on stage that like >> Someone asked me that on stage that like last week I was speaking in the Middle last week I was speaking in the Middle last week I was speaking in the Middle East somewhere and they asked me about East somewhere and they asked me about East somewhere and they asked me about like what does everybody want? That was like what does everybody want? That was like what does everybody want? That was literally the question and my answer was literally the question and my answer was literally the question and my answer was love. And we all we're like confused love. And we all we're like confused love. And we all we're like confused about the path to it. So some of us about the path to it. So some of us about the path to it. So some of us think the path to it is like if I get think the path to it is like if I get think the path to it is like if I get the number one podcast maybe that will the number one podcast maybe that will the number one podcast maybe that will make or maybe that would mean I'm worthy make or maybe that would mean I'm worthy make or maybe that would mean I'm worthy of love. of love. of love. >> Yeah. Like like we we we've come to >> Yeah. Like like we we we've come to >> Yeah. Like like we we we've come to we've come to associate accomplishment we've come to associate accomplishment we've come to associate accomplishment with being worthy of love. And that's with being worthy of love. And that's with being worthy of love. And that's really all that it is. Like it's really really all that it is. Like it's really really all that it is. Like it's really all that it is. Like what otherwise all that it is. Like what otherwise all that it is. Like what otherwise what's the purpose of it? Like how many what's the purpose of it? Like how many what's the purpose of it? Like how many supercars can one person have? And how supercars can one person have? And how supercars can one person have? And how much joy can they really give you? You much joy can they really give you? You much joy can they really give you? You can only drive them one at a time, you can only drive them one at a time, you can only drive them one at a time, you know? Like it really is about like no, I know? Like it really is about like no, I know? Like it really is about like no, I feel worthy. I feel worthy of love. I feel worthy. I feel worthy of love. I feel worthy. I feel worthy of love. I feel proud of who I am, which is I'm feel proud of who I am, which is I'm feel proud of who I am, which is I'm proud of who I am, which means I'm proud of who I am, which means I'm proud of who I am, which means I'm worthy of love. It it really all comes worthy of love. It it really all comes worthy of love. It it really all comes back to love. It really all comes back back to love. It really all comes back back to love. It really all comes back to love. the the the two things that to love. the the the two things that to love. the the the two things that late middle age is helping me see late middle age is helping me see late middle age is helping me see is that the hardest thing to become is is that the hardest thing to become is is that the hardest thing to become is yourself, yourself, yourself, your authentic self. And that really all your authentic self. And that really all your authentic self. And that really all any of us want is to be loved like and any of us want is to be loved like and any of us want is to be loved like and to be worthy of love. And that to be worthy of love. And that to be worthy of love. And that everything you have will add up to a everything you have will add up to a everything you have will add up to a great pile of nothing great pile of nothing great pile of nothing other than the people who you love and other than the people who you love and other than the people who you love and the people who loved you and the the people who loved you and the the people who loved you and the experiences you had with those people. experiences you had with those people. experiences you had with those people. That's it. That's all that matters. That's it. That's all that matters. That's it. That's all that matters. Everything else is noise. >> James, thank you. >> James, thank you. >> Thank you. Always good to see you. >> Thank you. Always good to see you. >> Thank you. Always good to see you. >> Good to see you, too. YouTube have this >> Good to see you, too. YouTube have this >> Good to see you, too. 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