Why You Don’t Feel Loved (even when you are) - Sonja Lyubomirsky

You've been studying happiness for 36 You've been studying happiness for 36 years. years. years. >> Is there a commonality between all of >> Is there a commonality between all of >> Is there a commonality between all of the most effective happiness the most effective happiness the most effective happiness interventions that you found? interventions that you found? interventions that you found? >> Yes. Well, thank you for aging me, but >> Yes. Well, thank you for aging me, but >> Yes. Well, thank you for aging me, but yes, 36 years. So, actually, it was yes, 36 years. So, actually, it was yes, 36 years. So, actually, it was 1998, my lab pioneered happiness 1998, my lab pioneered happiness 1998, my lab pioneered happiness interventions. So, 98, long time ago, 28 interventions. So, 98, long time ago, 28 interventions. So, 98, long time ago, 28 years ago, Bill Clinton was in the White years ago, Bill Clinton was in the White years ago, Bill Clinton was in the White House. Um, and so I've been doing House. Um, and so I've been doing House. Um, and so I've been doing research on these interventions, testing research on these interventions, testing research on these interventions, testing whether practices like uh expressing whether practices like uh expressing whether practices like uh expressing gratitude or doing acts of kindness or gratitude or doing acts of kindness or gratitude or doing acts of kindness or being social makes people happier. So being social makes people happier. So being social makes people happier. So interventions are like clinical trials, interventions are like clinical trials, interventions are like clinical trials, but instead of testing a vaccine, we're but instead of testing a vaccine, we're but instead of testing a vaccine, we're testing like a happiness strategy. And testing like a happiness strategy. And testing like a happiness strategy. And then one day it finally hit me that what then one day it finally hit me that what then one day it finally hit me that what all these interventions had in common is all these interventions had in common is all these interventions had in common is the ones that worked, the reason they the ones that worked, the reason they the ones that worked, the reason they worked is because they made us feel more worked is because they made us feel more worked is because they made us feel more connected to and loved by others. Right? connected to and loved by others. Right? connected to and loved by others. Right? So when I write a gratitude letter to my So when I write a gratitude letter to my So when I write a gratitude letter to my mom, it makes me feel more loved by her, mom, it makes me feel more loved by her, mom, it makes me feel more loved by her, right? When I do an act of kindness for right? When I do an act of kindness for right? When I do an act of kindness for a colleague or a friend, makes me feel a colleague or a friend, makes me feel a colleague or a friend, makes me feel closer to him. So almost all happiness closer to him. So almost all happiness closer to him. So almost all happiness practices, maybe not all, like maybe if practices, maybe not all, like maybe if practices, maybe not all, like maybe if you run on the beach or meditate, it's you run on the beach or meditate, it's you run on the beach or meditate, it's not about connection, but almost all of not about connection, but almost all of not about connection, but almost all of them are about feeling connected and them are about feeling connected and them are about feeling connected and feeling loved. feeling loved. feeling loved. >> Why? >> Why? >> Why? [sighs and gasps] [sighs and gasps] [sighs and gasps] >> We I think the human species wouldn't >> We I think the human species wouldn't >> We I think the human species wouldn't have survived if we did not feel have survived if we did not feel have survived if we did not feel connected and loved. And it's a a connected and loved. And it's a a connected and loved. And it's a a extremely strong signal. And so what I extremely strong signal. And so what I extremely strong signal. And so what I concluded is the key to happiness is concluded is the key to happiness is concluded is the key to happiness is feeling connected, which sounds like a feeling connected, which sounds like a feeling connected, which sounds like a cliche, right? But cliche, right? But cliche, right? But >> and when you think about like in our >> and when you think about like in our >> and when you think about like in our ancestral past, if we did not feel ancestral past, if we did not feel ancestral past, if we did not feel connected and loved, we wouldn't connected and loved, we wouldn't connected and loved, we wouldn't survive. We wouldn't find mates, like we survive. We wouldn't find mates, like we survive. We wouldn't find mates, like we wouldn't pass on our genes. So it's it's wouldn't pass on our genes. So it's it's wouldn't pass on our genes. So it's it's incredibly important. It's one of the incredibly important. It's one of the incredibly important. It's one of the most important tasks of human beings is most important tasks of human beings is most important tasks of human beings is is to sort of maintain connection. is to sort of maintain connection. is to sort of maintain connection. >> Okay. So to take a bit of an >> Okay. So to take a bit of an >> Okay. So to take a bit of an evolutionary lens, evolutionary lens, evolutionary lens, >> uh if you are not belonging to the >> uh if you are not belonging to the >> uh if you are not belonging to the tribe, mattering to the tribe, tribe, mattering to the tribe, tribe, mattering to the tribe, understood by the tribe, uh and a part understood by the tribe, uh and a part understood by the tribe, uh and a part of that, a human on its own 20,000 years of that, a human on its own 20,000 years of that, a human on its own 20,000 years ago isn't going to last very long. ago isn't going to last very long. ago isn't going to last very long. Therefore, it's important for you to get Therefore, it's important for you to get Therefore, it's important for you to get back into connection. It doesn't seem to back into connection. It doesn't seem to back into connection. It doesn't seem to me though that unhappiness necessarily me though that unhappiness necessarily me though that unhappiness necessarily drives people back to connection and drives people back to connection and drives people back to connection and love. It can often make people behave in love. It can often make people behave in love. It can often make people behave in ways, have habits, and a demeanor that ways, have habits, and a demeanor that ways, have habits, and a demeanor that actually makes them kind of hard to actually makes them kind of hard to actually makes them kind of hard to love. love. love. >> Right? Right. So, it's not really >> Right? Right. So, it's not really >> Right? Right. So, it's not really unhappiness that drives them back to unhappiness that drives them back to unhappiness that drives them back to connection. It's not feeling loved connection. It's not feeling loved connection. It's not feeling loved >> or feeling lonely, which actually is >> or feeling lonely, which actually is >> or feeling lonely, which actually is very very similar to feeling unloved. I very very similar to feeling unloved. I very very similar to feeling unloved. I think actually a lonely moment and a think actually a lonely moment and a think actually a lonely moment and a moment where you don't feel loved are moment where you don't feel loved are moment where you don't feel loved are are almost identical. And and there are almost identical. And and there are almost identical. And and there again, they're a signal to to us humans again, they're a signal to to us humans again, they're a signal to to us humans that something's a rise, something's a that something's a rise, something's a that something's a rise, something's a miss. I need to, you know, regain miss. I need to, you know, regain miss. I need to, you know, regain reconnect that connection. I actually reconnect that connection. I actually reconnect that connection. I actually was feeling a little lonely a few weeks was feeling a little lonely a few weeks was feeling a little lonely a few weeks ago and I actually I don't usually feel ago and I actually I don't usually feel ago and I actually I don't usually feel lonely. I have lots of friends and lonely. I have lots of friends and lonely. I have lots of friends and family who love me and I left a message family who love me and I left a message family who love me and I left a message for a friend and she just actually just for a friend and she just actually just for a friend and she just actually just left me a message back yesterday and she left me a message back yesterday and she left me a message back yesterday and she said, "Oh, I feel so so sorry for you. said, "Oh, I feel so so sorry for you. said, "Oh, I feel so so sorry for you. Like so feel so bad. I wish I were Like so feel so bad. I wish I were Like so feel so bad. I wish I were there." And she's like, "Sonia, feeling there." And she's like, "Sonia, feeling there." And she's like, "Sonia, feeling lonely is a signal that you know you lonely is a signal that you know you lonely is a signal that you know you need to kind of put more effort and need to kind of put more effort and need to kind of put more effort and energy into reconnecting." So, um, yeah, energy into reconnecting." So, um, yeah, energy into reconnecting." So, um, yeah, >> lots of people spend their entire lives >> lots of people spend their entire lives >> lots of people spend their entire lives trying to be lovable. trying to be lovable. trying to be lovable. Is that the wrong goal entirely? Is that the wrong goal entirely? Is that the wrong goal entirely? >> Yes. Well, there's a part of it that's >> Yes. Well, there's a part of it that's >> Yes. Well, there's a part of it that's that's not a a bad thing, which is if that's not a a bad thing, which is if that's not a a bad thing, which is if you want to be a better person, right? you want to be a better person, right? you want to be a better person, right? We working on yourself. Wonderful. We working on yourself. Wonderful. We working on yourself. Wonderful. Right. But I think the I think when you Right. But I think the I think when you Right. But I think the I think when you don't feel loved to conclude that, oh, I don't feel loved to conclude that, oh, I don't feel loved to conclude that, oh, I don't feel loved. I need to make myself don't feel loved. I need to make myself don't feel loved. I need to make myself more lovable, like I need to sort of more lovable, like I need to sort of more lovable, like I need to sort of somehow broadcast how wonderful I am or somehow broadcast how wonderful I am or somehow broadcast how wonderful I am or maybe I need to get richer or more maybe I need to get richer or more maybe I need to get richer or more famous or more beautiful so people would famous or more beautiful so people would famous or more beautiful so people would love me more. That's the part that's a love me more. That's the part that's a love me more. That's the part that's a myth and it does not actually get you to myth and it does not actually get you to myth and it does not actually get you to feel more loved. Is it a supply of love feel more loved. Is it a supply of love feel more loved. Is it a supply of love problem or an acceptance of love problem or an acceptance of love problem or an acceptance of love problem? problem? problem? >> I think it's an or not necessarily >> I think it's an or not necessarily >> I think it's an or not necessarily acceptance but it's not a supply of love acceptance but it's not a supply of love acceptance but it's not a supply of love problem. So many of us are loved but we problem. So many of us are loved but we problem. So many of us are loved but we still don't feel loved. So why is that still don't feel loved. So why is that still don't feel loved. So why is that maybe somehow we don't trust it? We maybe somehow we don't trust it? We maybe somehow we don't trust it? We don't see it. Um you know it's not don't see it. Um you know it's not don't see it. Um you know it's not somehow getting in. You know I think of somehow getting in. You know I think of somehow getting in. You know I think of it as like a cup of love. You know this it as like a cup of love. You know this it as like a cup of love. You know this cup of love and you're pouring love. cup of love and you're pouring love. cup of love and you're pouring love. you're showing love to me, but maybe it you're showing love to me, but maybe it you're showing love to me, but maybe it has a leak in the bottom and the love is has a leak in the bottom and the love is has a leak in the bottom and the love is sort of leaking out. Or maybe it has a sort of leaking out. Or maybe it has a sort of leaking out. Or maybe it has a lid, it doesn't have much of a place to lid, it doesn't have much of a place to lid, it doesn't have much of a place to get in. That's one way that that get in. That's one way that that get in. That's one way that that happens. Um happens. Um happens. Um >> um but okay, so the idea is that when we >> um but okay, so the idea is that when we >> um but okay, so the idea is that when we think when we think when we're not think when we think when we're not think when we think when we're not loved, we think I need to be make myself loved, we think I need to be make myself loved, we think I need to be make myself more lovable and so I sort of show you more lovable and so I sort of show you more lovable and so I sort of show you how wonderful I am. And what does that how wonderful I am. And what does that how wonderful I am. And what does that accomplish? It might lead you to admire accomplish? It might lead you to admire accomplish? It might lead you to admire me, right? I might impress you. me, right? I might impress you. me, right? I might impress you. >> And that happens all the time. Like here >> And that happens all the time. Like here >> And that happens all the time. Like here I am sitting here talking to you Chris I am sitting here talking to you Chris I am sitting here talking to you Chris and I want you to think that I'm smart and I want you to think that I'm smart and I want you to think that I'm smart and interesting and funny and kind and I and interesting and funny and kind and I and interesting and funny and kind and I might succeed in impressing you and I might succeed in impressing you and I might succeed in impressing you and I might succeed at you admiring me but might succeed at you admiring me but might succeed at you admiring me but it's not going to forge a connection. it's not going to forge a connection. it's not going to forge a connection. >> So that's not the answer to to real >> So that's not the answer to to real >> So that's not the answer to to real connection. connection. connection. >> What's the difference? >> What's the difference? >> What's the difference? >> So I think admiration is like it's like >> So I think admiration is like it's like >> So I think admiration is like it's like an influencer who has a lot of followers an influencer who has a lot of followers an influencer who has a lot of followers and they might be admired but the and they might be admired but the and they might be admired but the followers don't really know them. followers don't really know them. followers don't really know them. and my co-author of the of my book, How and my co-author of the of my book, How and my co-author of the of my book, How to Feel Loved, Harry Reese and I believe to Feel Loved, Harry Reese and I believe to Feel Loved, Harry Reese and I believe that really the key to feeling loved is that really the key to feeling loved is that really the key to feeling loved is being known. being known. being known. Because if you don't really know me, if Because if you don't really know me, if Because if you don't really know me, if if I'm just broadcasting my my positive if I'm just broadcasting my my positive if I'm just broadcasting my my positive qualities, hiding my weaknesses, you qualities, hiding my weaknesses, you qualities, hiding my weaknesses, you don't really know who I am on the don't really know who I am on the don't really know who I am on the inside, what really matters to me, and inside, what really matters to me, and inside, what really matters to me, and if you don't really know me, I can't if you don't really know me, I can't if you don't really know me, I can't truly ever feel loved because I'll truly ever feel loved because I'll truly ever feel loved because I'll always wonder if he knew me, maybe he always wonder if he knew me, maybe he always wonder if he knew me, maybe he wouldn't love me. Mhm. wouldn't love me. Mhm. wouldn't love me. Mhm. >> So >> So >> So >> that fear of being seen. >> that fear of being seen. >> that fear of being seen. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> What just definitionally what does it >> What just definitionally what does it >> What just definitionally what does it mean to feel loved? mean to feel loved? mean to feel loved? >> Feeling love means that I believe I make >> Feeling love means that I believe I make >> Feeling love means that I believe I make a difference in your life and that I a difference in your life and that I a difference in your life and that I really matter in your life. It's really really matter in your life. It's really really matter in your life. It's really comes down to that. I mean love of comes down to that. I mean love of comes down to that. I mean love of course is about affection and care and course is about affection and care and course is about affection and care and intertwined goals, but I think it really intertwined goals, but I think it really intertwined goals, but I think it really comes down to like I matter to you and comes down to like I matter to you and comes down to like I matter to you and you matter to me. And it's much broader you matter to me. And it's much broader you matter to me. And it's much broader by the way than of course romantic love. by the way than of course romantic love. by the way than of course romantic love. And while we talk about feeling loved, And while we talk about feeling loved, And while we talk about feeling loved, we we're talking about feeling loved at we we're talking about feeling loved at we we're talking about feeling loved at work, by your neighbors, by your family, work, by your neighbors, by your family, work, by your neighbors, by your family, by your friends. It's not just about by your friends. It's not just about by your friends. It's not just about your partner. your partner. your partner. >> M 40% of people say they don't feel as >> M 40% of people say they don't feel as >> M 40% of people say they don't feel as loved as they want to be by their loved as they want to be by their loved as they want to be by their partner. And nearly twothirds of young partner. And nearly twothirds of young partner. And nearly twothirds of young men feel that nobody truly knows them. men feel that nobody truly knows them. men feel that nobody truly knows them. >> Isn't that terrible? Yeah, it's it's >> Isn't that terrible? Yeah, it's it's >> Isn't that terrible? Yeah, it's it's really a it's sad. It's a problem. I really a it's sad. It's a problem. I really a it's sad. It's a problem. I actually think those numbers are actually think those numbers are actually think those numbers are probably understatements. I bet people, probably understatements. I bet people, probably understatements. I bet people, >> you know, are feel embarrassed about any >> you know, are feel embarrassed about any >> you know, are feel embarrassed about any Exactly. Exactly. So yeah, we did a Exactly. Exactly. So yeah, we did a Exactly. Exactly. So yeah, we did a survey expressly for the book, right? survey expressly for the book, right? survey expressly for the book, right? Found that was it 70% said they don't Found that was it 70% said they don't Found that was it 70% said they don't feel as loved as they want to be at at feel as loved as they want to be at at feel as loved as they want to be at at least one significant relationship in least one significant relationship in least one significant relationship in their life. So it's 70%. Um, and why is their life. So it's 70%. Um, and why is their life. So it's 70%. Um, and why is that? I think many of them have love, that? I think many of them have love, that? I think many of them have love, they have connection, they have friends, they have connection, they have friends, they have connection, they have friends, and somehow, yeah, they're not they're and somehow, yeah, they're not they're and somehow, yeah, they're not they're not feel it's not getting it. It's not not feel it's not getting it. It's not not feel it's not getting it. It's not getting internalized. getting internalized. getting internalized. >> What are the big ways structurally, >> What are the big ways structurally, >> What are the big ways structurally, tactically, literally, what are the big tactically, literally, what are the big tactically, literally, what are the big ways that people don't accept love? ways that people don't accept love? ways that people don't accept love? Well, I was talking about the cup of Well, I was talking about the cup of Well, I was talking about the cup of love. I think if you're anxiously love. I think if you're anxiously love. I think if you're anxiously attached or avoidantly attached, I think attached or avoidantly attached, I think attached or avoidantly attached, I think that's a huge barrier somehow. Again, if that's a huge barrier somehow. Again, if that's a huge barrier somehow. Again, if you're anxious, it's like you're you're anxious, it's like you're you're anxious, it's like you're watching for signs of rejection, signs watching for signs of rejection, signs watching for signs of rejection, signs that the person doesn't love you. If that the person doesn't love you. If that the person doesn't love you. If you're avoidant, maybe you're not even you're avoidant, maybe you're not even you're avoidant, maybe you're not even noticing those signs of love. Um, I noticing those signs of love. Um, I noticing those signs of love. Um, I mean, it could even be, it's funny, we mean, it could even be, it's funny, we mean, it could even be, it's funny, we the idea of the love languages. We the idea of the love languages. We the idea of the love languages. We actually debunk the idea of the love actually debunk the idea of the love actually debunk the idea of the love languages in the book. We have a whole languages in the book. We have a whole languages in the book. We have a whole section on it. We didn't do it. Someone section on it. We didn't do it. Someone section on it. We didn't do it. Someone else did it. Um, but there's there's a else did it. Um, but there's there's a else did it. Um, but there's there's a truth to it. I mean, it's a good truth to it. I mean, it's a good truth to it. I mean, it's a good huristic that if somehow like I actually huristic that if somehow like I actually huristic that if somehow like I actually was dating someone who kept sending me was dating someone who kept sending me was dating someone who kept sending me gifts like in the mail with like little gifts like in the mail with like little gifts like in the mail with like little handwritten notes, it's actually really handwritten notes, it's actually really handwritten notes, it's actually really cute and yet didn't do the things that I cute and yet didn't do the things that I cute and yet didn't do the things that I actually really wanted him to do, which actually really wanted him to do, which actually really wanted him to do, which is really like saying something to me or is really like saying something to me or is really like saying something to me or you know, my love quote love languages you know, my love quote love languages you know, my love quote love languages are are words of affirmation and are are words of affirmation and are are words of affirmation and physical touch. physical touch. physical touch. >> Well, hang on a second. Have you >> Well, hang on a second. Have you >> Well, hang on a second. Have you debunked it or are you like a subject to debunked it or are you like a subject to debunked it or are you like a subject to it? What we've debunked is that there's it? What we've debunked is that there's it? What we've debunked is that there's not just five languages, there's there's not just five languages, there's there's not just five languages, there's there's many. And that it what we've debunked is many. And that it what we've debunked is many. And that it what we've debunked is not we uh other people have debunked the not we uh other people have debunked the not we uh other people have debunked the idea that matching in your love language idea that matching in your love language idea that matching in your love language uh predicts like how good or how strong uh predicts like how good or how strong uh predicts like how good or how strong or how stable your relationship is. It or how stable your relationship is. It or how stable your relationship is. It does not predict it. It turns out does not predict it. It turns out does not predict it. It turns out everyone cares about two love languages, everyone cares about two love languages, everyone cares about two love languages, words of affirmation and quality of words of affirmation and quality of words of affirmation and quality of time. It also turns out that the more time. It also turns out that the more time. It also turns out that the more love languages your partner shows love love languages your partner shows love love languages your partner shows love to you, the better. So it's not about to you, the better. So it's not about to you, the better. So it's not about the matching. That's the matching idea the matching. That's the matching idea the matching. That's the matching idea that really we've debunked, but I think that really we've debunked, but I think that really we've debunked, but I think it's a great huristic. So, I like to it's a great huristic. So, I like to it's a great huristic. So, I like to talk about it. talk about it. talk about it. >> So, I'll bring it in. So, it is funny >> So, I'll bring it in. So, it is funny >> So, I'll bring it in. So, it is funny like I'm like bringing it in and yet like I'm like bringing it in and yet like I'm like bringing it in and yet I've debunked it a little. Uh, I've debunked it a little. Uh, I've debunked it a little. Uh, >> pick a direct. >> pick a direct. >> pick a direct. >> I know. Exactly. But, um, but yeah. >> I know. Exactly. But, um, but yeah. >> I know. Exactly. But, um, but yeah. Anyway, the this example I was dating Anyway, the this example I was dating Anyway, the this example I was dating someone who was sending me gifts and someone who was sending me gifts and someone who was sending me gifts and that was his love language. Um, and I that was his love language. Um, and I that was his love language. Um, and I just wasn't reading it. Like, I wasn't just wasn't reading it. Like, I wasn't just wasn't reading it. Like, I wasn't seeing that. Like, I wasn't seeing that seeing that. Like, I wasn't seeing that seeing that. Like, I wasn't seeing that that's an expression of love. So, that that's an expression of love. So, that that's an expression of love. So, that does happen sometimes when the you're does happen sometimes when the you're does happen sometimes when the you're just not Yeah. You're not taking it in just not Yeah. You're not taking it in just not Yeah. You're not taking it in whatever the person is doing. Their love whatever the person is doing. Their love whatever the person is doing. Their love language is different from yours. language is different from yours. language is different from yours. >> Okay. [laughter] >> Okay. [laughter] >> Okay. [laughter] >> What else? What are some of the other >> What else? What are some of the other >> What else? What are some of the other ways that people are rejecting love, not ways that people are rejecting love, not ways that people are rejecting love, not accepting it? accepting it? accepting it? >> Yeah. If you don't love yourself very >> Yeah. If you don't love yourself very >> Yeah. If you don't love yourself very much, much, much, uh it's hard to see signs of other uh it's hard to see signs of other uh it's hard to see signs of other people's love as genuine. Now, people's love as genuine. Now, people's love as genuine. Now, everything everything we talk about is everything everything we talk about is everything everything we talk about is really much more nuanced than like a really much more nuanced than like a really much more nuanced than like a simple explanation. So, for example, a simple explanation. So, for example, a simple explanation. So, for example, a lot of people think if you don't love lot of people think if you don't love lot of people think if you don't love yourself, you can't really love other yourself, you can't really love other yourself, you can't really love other people. I think that's a that's a myth. people. I think that's a that's a myth. people. I think that's a that's a myth. And I think Esther Prell actually was a And I think Esther Prell actually was a And I think Esther Prell actually was a was was someone I I heard talking about was was someone I I heard talking about was was someone I I heard talking about that. She said, "No, you learn to love that. She said, "No, you learn to love that. She said, "No, you learn to love yourself also in the context of yourself also in the context of yourself also in the context of relationships. It's a birectional kind relationships. It's a birectional kind relationships. It's a birectional kind of thing." Um, having said that, if you of thing." Um, having said that, if you of thing." Um, having said that, if you really don't love yourself, if you love really don't love yourself, if you love really don't love yourself, if you love self-esteem, you're not going to believe self-esteem, you're not going to believe self-esteem, you're not going to believe other people's expressions of love, other people's expressions of love, other people's expressions of love, you're not going to be aware of them. you're not going to be aware of them. you're not going to be aware of them. You're not going to see as genuine. You're not going to see as genuine. You're not going to see as genuine. Furthermore, if you don't love yourself, Furthermore, if you don't love yourself, Furthermore, if you don't love yourself, you literally are going to be quote less you literally are going to be quote less you literally are going to be quote less lovable, right? People, it leaks out, lovable, right? People, it leaks out, lovable, right? People, it leaks out, right? that your your self-image is is right? that your your self-image is is right? that your your self-image is is poor and you're not going to be as poor and you're not going to be as poor and you're not going to be as likely to receive love. So, um so I likely to receive love. So, um so I likely to receive love. So, um so I think that's another barrier. think that's another barrier. think that's another barrier. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> What have you learned about building >> What have you learned about building >> What have you learned about building self-esteem and self- loveve? Because it self-esteem and self- loveve? Because it self-esteem and self- loveve? Because it sounds here like, hey, we're on the sounds here like, hey, we're on the sounds here like, hey, we're on the receive, but in the context of receive, but in the context of receive, but in the context of self-esteem and self- loveve, we are self-esteem and self- loveve, we are self-esteem and self- loveve, we are both the recipient and the giver. both the recipient and the giver. both the recipient and the giver. >> Yeah. Uh I would say nothing. Um that is >> Yeah. Uh I would say nothing. Um that is >> Yeah. Uh I would say nothing. Um that is the one thing I don't know. I'm an the one thing I don't know. I'm an the one thing I don't know. I'm an interventionist. I'm an experimental interventionist. I'm an experimental interventionist. I'm an experimental social psychologist. I don't know of any social psychologist. I don't know of any social psychologist. I don't know of any good interventions to increase people's good interventions to increase people's good interventions to increase people's self-esteem. self-esteem. self-esteem. >> No way. >> No way. >> No way. >> Well, interventions in the lab, you >> Well, interventions in the lab, you >> Well, interventions in the lab, you know, that have been actually like know, that have been actually like know, that have been actually like evidence-based. I mean, of course, I can evidence-based. I mean, of course, I can evidence-based. I mean, of course, I can >> Well, we can do anything off vibes, >> Well, we can do anything off vibes, >> Well, we can do anything off vibes, right? I can come up with something that right? I can come up with something that right? I can come up with something that sounds good. That's the reason we need sounds good. That's the reason we need sounds good. That's the reason we need you. We need you to test whether or not you. We need you to test whether or not you. We need you to test whether or not my vibe coding of a an intervention is my vibe coding of a an intervention is my vibe coding of a an intervention is actually good or not. actually good or not. actually good or not. >> But remember, evidence of or absence of >> But remember, evidence of or absence of >> But remember, evidence of or absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, evidence is not evidence of absence, evidence is not evidence of absence, right? So, just because there aren't right? So, just because there aren't right? So, just because there aren't interventions doesn't mean that they interventions doesn't mean that they interventions doesn't mean that they wouldn't work. I mean I could I could wouldn't work. I mean I could I could wouldn't work. I mean I could I could speculate you know like based on years speculate you know like based on years speculate you know like based on years of experience and you know expertise of experience and you know expertise of experience and you know expertise that you know like for example just um that you know like for example just um that you know like for example just um pursuing goals passions that that are pursuing goals passions that that are pursuing goals passions that that are important to you know and having important to you know and having important to you know and having successes in in those things and successes in in those things and successes in in those things and practicing your social skills like practicing your social skills like practicing your social skills like that's going to build your self-esteem. that's going to build your self-esteem. that's going to build your self-esteem. I just don't know any I just don't know any I just don't know any >> maybe they're out there but I don't know >> maybe they're out there but I don't know >> maybe they're out there but I don't know any successful interventions that have any successful interventions that have any successful interventions that have that have actually boosted people's that have actually boosted people's that have actually boosted people's self-esteem. self-esteem. self-esteem. >> That's interesting. I wonder whether and >> That's interesting. I wonder whether and >> That's interesting. I wonder whether and this is completely in fact I'm going to this is completely in fact I'm going to this is completely in fact I'm going to take this off and I'm going to put this take this off and I'm going to put this take this off and I'm going to put this one on for the time being. one on for the time being. one on for the time being. >> Love it. >> Love it. >> Love it. >> Um this is the bro scientist hat. >> Um this is the bro scientist hat. >> Um this is the bro scientist hat. >> Love it. >> Love it. >> Love it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I wonder >> I wonder >> I wonder if part of self-esteem is kind of like if part of self-esteem is kind of like if part of self-esteem is kind of like an aggregate a lagging measure aggregate an aggregate a lagging measure aggregate an aggregate a lagging measure aggregate for how your local ecosystem for how your local ecosystem for how your local ecosystem socially and emotionally seems to be socially and emotionally seems to be socially and emotionally seems to be feeding back to you in a positive way. feeding back to you in a positive way. feeding back to you in a positive way. that self-esteem can be built up on your that self-esteem can be built up on your that self-esteem can be built up on your own, but you need to be very deluded if own, but you need to be very deluded if own, but you need to be very deluded if you were able to hold self-esteem when you were able to hold self-esteem when you were able to hold self-esteem when the world was giving you no evidence the world was giving you no evidence the world was giving you no evidence that you should hold on to it, right? that you should hold on to it, right? that you should hold on to it, right? Because that would be incredibly Because that would be incredibly Because that would be incredibly maladaptive. You you are as a social maladaptive. You you are as a social maladaptive. You you are as a social creature, you're actively ignoring creature, you're actively ignoring creature, you're actively ignoring signals that you should pay attention to signals that you should pay attention to signals that you should pay attention to if everybody else in the tribe is going, if everybody else in the tribe is going, if everybody else in the tribe is going, "Sonia, you you can't behave like that. "Sonia, you you can't behave like that. "Sonia, you you can't behave like that. You can't keep behaving like that. We're You can't keep behaving like that. We're You can't keep behaving like that. We're not giving you positive reinforcement. not giving you positive reinforcement. not giving you positive reinforcement. We're not giving you love. We're not We're not giving you love. We're not We're not giving you love. We're not giving you belonging. you're not giving you belonging. you're not giving you belonging. you're not mattering, we're not listening, we don't mattering, we're not listening, we don't mattering, we're not listening, we don't care because you're being an [ __ ] care because you're being an [ __ ] care because you're being an [ __ ] You're being an [ __ ] and that's You're being an [ __ ] and that's You're being an [ __ ] and that's maladaptive to the group as as as a maladaptive to the group as as as a maladaptive to the group as as as a whole. Presumably, the opposite of that whole. Presumably, the opposite of that whole. Presumably, the opposite of that would be this is good. Keep going more would be this is good. Keep going more would be this is good. Keep going more of that. This is helping us. You are a of that. This is helping us. You are a of that. This is helping us. You are a good person. You are contributing. We good person. You are contributing. We good person. You are contributing. We care about you. And over time, that care about you. And over time, that care about you. And over time, that would help to build up. People can have would help to build up. People can have would help to build up. People can have self-esteem that is self-generated, self-esteem that is self-generated, self-esteem that is self-generated, but again, you need to have nerbs of but again, you need to have nerbs of but again, you need to have nerbs of steel or basically no no eyes and ears steel or basically no no eyes and ears steel or basically no no eyes and ears if you're going to ignore the the if you're going to ignore the the if you're going to ignore the the feedback from everybody else scientist. feedback from everybody else scientist. feedback from everybody else scientist. >> No, no, that is actually and I'm not >> No, no, that is actually and I'm not >> No, no, that is actually and I'm not just flattering you that it's actually a just flattering you that it's actually a just flattering you that it's actually a brilliant idea and you've just brilliant idea and you've just brilliant idea and you've just reproduced some Can you change hats? reproduced some Can you change hats? reproduced some Can you change hats? you've just independently developed some you've just independently developed some you've just independently developed some really solid theories in psychology really solid theories in psychology really solid theories in psychology about about how self-esteem is kind of a about about how self-esteem is kind of a about about how self-esteem is kind of a measure like a like a metric a meter of measure like a like a metric a meter of measure like a like a metric a meter of what's happening exactly like a what's happening exactly like a what's happening exactly like a sociometer I think is what someone calls sociometer I think is what someone calls sociometer I think is what someone calls it one of my colleagues calls it abs it one of my colleagues calls it abs it one of my colleagues calls it abs we're social animals right we we don't we're social animals right we we don't we're social animals right we we don't live in isolation we don't we don't man live in isolation we don't we don't man live in isolation we don't we don't man does not live on an island right um does not live on an island right um does not live on an island right um >> um and so that also means so if I were >> um and so that also means so if I were >> um and so that also means so if I were to build a a self-esteem intervention to build a a self-esteem intervention to build a a self-esteem intervention right now I would They go out and this right now I would They go out and this right now I would They go out and this is actually very similar to my happiest is actually very similar to my happiest is actually very similar to my happiest interventions. Go out and help other interventions. Go out and help other interventions. Go out and help other people, right? Contribute to community. people, right? Contribute to community. people, right? Contribute to community. Well, actually the three buckets of that Well, actually the three buckets of that Well, actually the three buckets of that that computer the three buckets that that computer the three buckets that that computer the three buckets that contribute to happiness are um uh contribute to happiness are um uh contribute to happiness are um uh anything to do with connection. So go anything to do with connection. So go anything to do with connection. So go and connect with other people, right? Uh and connect with other people, right? Uh and connect with other people, right? Uh spend time with others. Listen, you spend time with others. Listen, you spend time with others. Listen, you know, we'll get back we'll get to that know, we'll get back we'll get to that know, we'll get back we'll get to that later. Two, um contribution to society, later. Two, um contribution to society, later. Two, um contribution to society, to community, right? Helping others. to community, right? Helping others. to community, right? Helping others. When you help others, you're going to When you help others, you're going to When you help others, you're going to get positive feedback from the world. get positive feedback from the world. get positive feedback from the world. And then the third is personal growth, And then the third is personal growth, And then the third is personal growth, right? So work on yourself, but it also right? So work on yourself, but it also right? So work on yourself, but it also can be just like learning to garden, can be just like learning to garden, can be just like learning to garden, learning a new language, going to learning a new language, going to learning a new language, going to travel, um having experiences that you travel, um having experiences that you travel, um having experiences that you can talk about to other people that can talk about to other people that can talk about to other people that gives you um this gives you esteem, gives you um this gives you esteem, gives you um this gives you esteem, right? If you sit home in in your garage right? If you sit home in in your garage right? If you sit home in in your garage all day, right? You're not going to all day, right? You're not going to all day, right? You're not going to build that very easily. build that very easily. build that very easily. >> Is the person that you're dating the >> Is the person that you're dating the >> Is the person that you're dating the most important relationship for most important relationship for most important relationship for providing this sense of love? providing this sense of love? providing this sense of love? >> Well, interesting. In in western >> Well, interesting. In in western >> Well, interesting. In in western society, society, society, most people have romantic relationships most people have romantic relationships most people have romantic relationships and actually a far majority end up and actually a far majority end up and actually a far majority end up getting married at some point. I think getting married at some point. I think getting married at some point. I think something like 85% by age 56. Um, I something like 85% by age 56. Um, I something like 85% by age 56. Um, I would say for a lot of a lot of people would say for a lot of a lot of people would say for a lot of a lot of people would report that that is their most would report that that is their most would report that that is their most important relationship. I personally important relationship. I personally important relationship. I personally think that friends are what makes life think that friends are what makes life think that friends are what makes life worth living. Um, that's more of my kind worth living. Um, that's more of my kind worth living. Um, that's more of my kind of personal theory that you get more of of personal theory that you get more of of personal theory that you get more of it from friends, but it's also a very it from friends, but it's also a very it from friends, but it's also a very genderbased theory. So it turns out that genderbased theory. So it turns out that genderbased theory. So it turns out that men men men >> derive more happiness from romantic >> derive more happiness from romantic >> derive more happiness from romantic relationships than women. You probably relationships than women. You probably relationships than women. You probably know this. know this. know this. >> Yeah. That's why men suffer more through >> Yeah. That's why men suffer more through >> Yeah. That's why men suffer more through divorce because so much of their social divorce because so much of their social divorce because so much of their social belonging was tied up in the other belonging was tied up in the other belonging was tied up in the other person whereas women had distributed it. person whereas women had distributed it. person whereas women had distributed it. >> They put all their eggs in one basket. >> They put all their eggs in one basket. >> They put all their eggs in one basket. Whereas women have you know very close Whereas women have you know very close Whereas women have you know very close uh friendships uh social total support uh friendships uh social total support uh friendships uh social total support networks. networks. networks. >> Um but again I think friends are what >> Um but again I think friends are what >> Um but again I think friends are what makes life worth living and um yeah so makes life worth living and um yeah so makes life worth living and um yeah so really maintain those friendships. Did really maintain those friendships. Did really maintain those friendships. Did you read uh friends by Robin Dunbar? you read uh friends by Robin Dunbar? you read uh friends by Robin Dunbar? >> No, but I know about it. Yeah. Yeah. >> No, but I know about it. Yeah. Yeah. >> No, but I know about it. Yeah. Yeah. >> Interesting idea. He he talks about um >> Interesting idea. He he talks about um >> Interesting idea. He he talks about um you know the concentric circles of of you know the concentric circles of of you know the concentric circles of of friendship and I think he talks about friendship and I think he talks about friendship and I think he talks about you have room in your lifeish for about you have room in your lifeish for about you have room in your lifeish for about five five very close friends but that a five five very close friends but that a five five very close friends but that a partner takes up two of those slots. I partner takes up two of those slots. I partner takes up two of those slots. I thought that was really interesting to thought that was really interesting to thought that was really interesting to think about you know your your um think about you know your your um think about you know your your um distributing this around. But what's the distributing this around. But what's the distributing this around. But what's the the the most common answer to the the the most common answer to the the the most common answer to the question how many close friends do you question how many close friends do you question how many close friends do you have to call on an emergency is zero. have to call on an emergency is zero. have to call on an emergency is zero. It's not the the median, but it's the It's not the the median, but it's the It's not the the median, but it's the most common answer. More people have no most common answer. More people have no most common answer. More people have no friends to call on in an emergency than friends to call on in an emergency than friends to call on in an emergency than any other number. And uh I wonder any other number. And uh I wonder any other number. And uh I wonder whether whether whether people who aren't in a relationship people who aren't in a relationship people who aren't in a relationship don't realize, hey, you need two don't realize, hey, you need two don't realize, hey, you need two additional close friends to compensate additional close friends to compensate additional close friends to compensate for your singleness. And that might help for your singleness. And that might help for your singleness. And that might help to fill in some of the gaps. Now, yeah, to fill in some of the gaps. Now, yeah, to fill in some of the gaps. Now, yeah, there's there's there's there is a category of love and intimacy there is a category of love and intimacy there is a category of love and intimacy obviously that can't be replicated by obviously that can't be replicated by obviously that can't be replicated by friendships that is available in an friendships that is available in an friendships that is available in an intimate partnership, right? Obviously, intimate partnership, right? Obviously, intimate partnership, right? Obviously, but but but more isolation means that maybe people more isolation means that maybe people more isolation means that maybe people are placing even more pressure on are placing even more pressure on are placing even more pressure on romantic relationships to fulfill all of romantic relationships to fulfill all of romantic relationships to fulfill all of these different needs. And when they're these different needs. And when they're these different needs. And when they're not in a romantic relationship, they're not in a romantic relationship, they're not in a romantic relationship, they're not supplementing that with more not supplementing that with more not supplementing that with more friends. friends. friends. >> I mean, I love that idea, the two two >> I mean, I love that idea, the two two >> I mean, I love that idea, the two two for one. Um but uh our but we also have for one. Um but uh our but we also have for one. Um but uh our but we also have the the false belief that our partner the the false belief that our partner the the false belief that our partner needs to fulfill all of our needs. So needs to fulfill all of our needs. So needs to fulfill all of our needs. So like Eli Finkele's book, The All or like Eli Finkele's book, The All or like Eli Finkele's book, The All or Nothing Marriage, right? That and so we Nothing Marriage, right? That and so we Nothing Marriage, right? That and so we know this to be true and yet we still know this to be true and yet we still know this to be true and yet we still think that right that they Yeah. So one think that right that they Yeah. So one think that right that they Yeah. So one person needs to fulfill you know sexual, person needs to fulfill you know sexual, person needs to fulfill you know sexual, spiritual, emotional, intellectual needs spiritual, emotional, intellectual needs spiritual, emotional, intellectual needs and that almost never happens. And so and that almost never happens. And so and that almost never happens. And so which is why uh delegating those to to which is why uh delegating those to to which is why uh delegating those to to friends and family is great idea. friends and family is great idea. friends and family is great idea. >> Are there more important words to hear >> Are there more important words to hear >> Are there more important words to hear than I love you? than I love you? than I love you? Yes. So on Valentine's Day, right, Yes. So on Valentine's Day, right, Yes. So on Valentine's Day, right, almost all the cards say, "I love you." almost all the cards say, "I love you." almost all the cards say, "I love you." Right? Almost all of them. I would say Right? Almost all of them. I would say Right? Almost all of them. I would say 99%. And so we had the idea that they 99%. And so we had the idea that they 99%. And so we had the idea that they should say I maybe it's more important should say I maybe it's more important should say I maybe it's more important or as important to say I feel loved by or as important to say I feel loved by or as important to say I feel loved by you. You make me feel loved, you. You make me feel loved, you. You make me feel loved, >> which is really more about what they're >> which is really more about what they're >> which is really more about what they're doing, the gift that they're giving you. doing, the gift that they're giving you. doing, the gift that they're giving you. Because again, like that's what m you Because again, like that's what m you Because again, like that's what m you could be loved. If you're if you are could be loved. If you're if you are could be loved. If you're if you are loved, but you don't feel loved, it's loved, but you don't feel loved, it's loved, but you don't feel loved, it's like almost doesn't matter. Like it's like almost doesn't matter. Like it's like almost doesn't matter. Like it's like you could be beautiful but you like you could be beautiful but you like you could be beautiful but you don't feel beautiful. If you could be don't feel beautiful. If you could be don't feel beautiful. If you could be smart and you don't feel smart, then you smart and you don't feel smart, then you smart and you don't feel smart, then you know that's a problem. know that's a problem. know that's a problem. >> You might not believe me, but this is >> You might not believe me, but this is >> You might not believe me, but this is what peak sleep optimization looks like. what peak sleep optimization looks like. what peak sleep optimization looks like. Not talking about the night gown that's Not talking about the night gown that's Not talking about the night gown that's just for sex appeal. I'm talking about just for sex appeal. I'm talking about just for sex appeal. I'm talking about my eight. 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Right now, you can get up to $350 off the pod 5 by going to the up to $350 off the pod 5 by going to the up to $350 off the pod 5 by going to the link in the description below or heading link in the description below or heading link in the description below or heading to eight.com/modwisdom to eight.com/modwisdom to eight.com/modwisdom and using the code modernwisdom at and using the code modernwisdom at and using the code modernwisdom at checkout. That's ei.com/modernwisdism and modern wisdom at checkout. Is there and modern wisdom at checkout. Is there a skill to accepting love, do you think? a skill to accepting love, do you think? a skill to accepting love, do you think? Is that something that can be developed Is that something that can be developed Is that something that can be developed over time? You know, I to use a more over time? You know, I to use a more over time? You know, I to use a more flippant example, everyone's got that flippant example, everyone's got that flippant example, everyone's got that friend that when you pay them a genuine friend that when you pay them a genuine friend that when you pay them a genuine compliment, they dismiss it. This is compliment, they dismiss it. This is compliment, they dismiss it. This is kind of like the British approach to kind of like the British approach to kind of like the British approach to receiving a compliment. Oh, no. You you receiving a compliment. Oh, no. You you receiving a compliment. Oh, no. You you must be not you. You um you look really must be not you. You um you look really must be not you. You um you look really good today. Well, if you had nothing good today. Well, if you had nothing good today. Well, if you had nothing else to do with your life other than get else to do with your life other than get else to do with your life other than get ready for a party, you too would look ready for a party, you too would look ready for a party, you too would look great. And you go, hey, dude, great. And you go, hey, dude, great. And you go, hey, dude, I've just worked really hard to try and I've just worked really hard to try and I've just worked really hard to try and give you something. That's an give you something. That's an give you something. That's an opportunity for you to feel good and for opportunity for you to feel good and for opportunity for you to feel good and for me to feel good for making you feel me to feel good for making you feel me to feel good for making you feel good. And now neither of us feel good. good. And now neither of us feel good. good. And now neither of us feel good. So congratulations. But yeah, it makes So congratulations. But yeah, it makes So congratulations. But yeah, it makes me think about that but at a much deeper me think about that but at a much deeper me think about that but at a much deeper level, right? The skill of accepting level, right? The skill of accepting level, right? The skill of accepting love, love, love, >> right? And absolutely true. And actually >> right? And absolutely true. And actually >> right? And absolutely true. And actually your example is great because I've your example is great because I've your example is great because I've noticed that as my friends and I get noticed that as my friends and I get noticed that as my friends and I get older, we are better at receiving older, we are better at receiving older, we are better at receiving compliments or just receiving receiving compliments or just receiving receiving compliments or just receiving receiving generosity. generosity. generosity. >> It's like it just a practice we practice >> It's like it just a practice we practice >> It's like it just a practice we practice and practice and practice. Um and I see and practice and practice. Um and I see and practice and practice. Um and I see that like there's more of a focus on that like there's more of a focus on that like there's more of a focus on kind of self-development. um you know at kind of self-development. um you know at kind of self-development. um you know at least in certain circles and people are least in certain circles and people are least in certain circles and people are really working on themselves and uh yeah really working on themselves and uh yeah really working on themselves and uh yeah I see that everywhere. So yeah I I think I see that everywhere. So yeah I I think I see that everywhere. So yeah I I think almost everything can get better with almost everything can get better with almost everything can get better with practice even when it feels really practice even when it feels really practice even when it feels really unnatural at first. unnatural at first. unnatural at first. >> Why is having a sharing mindset so >> Why is having a sharing mindset so >> Why is having a sharing mindset so important? important? important? >> We were talking about how the key to >> We were talking about how the key to >> We were talking about how the key to feeling loved is to be known. Right? So feeling loved is to be known. Right? So feeling loved is to be known. Right? So if you don't know me I'll never really if you don't know me I'll never really if you don't know me I'll never really feel loved by you cuz right because I feel loved by you cuz right because I feel loved by you cuz right because I always wonder would he love me if he always wonder would he love me if he always wonder would he love me if he knew me? How do I get to how do you get knew me? How do I get to how do you get knew me? How do I get to how do you get to know me? I need to share more of to know me? I need to share more of to know me? I need to share more of myself. It doesn't have to be, you know, myself. It doesn't have to be, you know, myself. It doesn't have to be, you know, trauma sharing or oversharing. It has to trauma sharing or oversharing. It has to trauma sharing or oversharing. It has to be done at the right pace. And also, I be done at the right pace. And also, I be done at the right pace. And also, I need to really have some emotional need to really have some emotional need to really have some emotional intelligence like read the room. So, I intelligence like read the room. So, I intelligence like read the room. So, I might like, so I need to share more of might like, so I need to share more of might like, so I need to share more of myself, right? Not just the highlight myself, right? Not just the highlight myself, right? Not just the highlight reel, but more of myself. But again, not reel, but more of myself. But again, not reel, but more of myself. But again, not like to spill all my, you know, like to spill all my, you know, like to spill all my, you know, weaknesses. So, but but I would want to weaknesses. So, but but I would want to weaknesses. So, but but I would want to test the room, right? So when you ask me test the room, right? So when you ask me test the room, right? So when you ask me how are you know most of the time I say how are you know most of the time I say how are you know most of the time I say fine uh maybe I might start with oh I fine uh maybe I might start with oh I fine uh maybe I might start with oh I had you know I was sort of struggling had you know I was sort of struggling had you know I was sort of struggling today with something you know I had a today with something you know I had a today with something you know I had a rough morning and then I look at your rough morning and then I look at your rough morning and then I look at your reaction and see like are you really reaction and see like are you really reaction and see like are you really interested to hear about my rough interested to hear about my rough interested to hear about my rough morning and that's kind of the toe in morning and that's kind of the toe in morning and that's kind of the toe in the water and then you can share more the water and then you can share more the water and then you can share more and more. So, I just want to like make and more. So, I just want to like make and more. So, I just want to like make sure that people understand that it's sure that people understand that it's sure that people understand that it's not just like oversharing I'm talking not just like oversharing I'm talking not just like oversharing I'm talking about, about, about, >> but [clears throat] it's showing >> but [clears throat] it's showing >> but [clears throat] it's showing >> like who are you? >> like who are you? >> like who are you? >> Who do you believe to be on the inside? >> Who do you believe to be on the inside? >> Who do you believe to be on the inside? Like showing more of that, Like showing more of that, Like showing more of that, >> you know, what matters to me? It doesn't >> you know, what matters to me? It doesn't >> you know, what matters to me? It doesn't have to be something negative. It could have to be something negative. It could have to be something negative. It could just be like my opinion about that movie just be like my opinion about that movie just be like my opinion about that movie that maybe everyone likes but I don't that maybe everyone likes but I don't that maybe everyone likes but I don't like it. like it. like it. >> Um, you know, showing something genuine >> Um, you know, showing something genuine >> Um, you know, showing something genuine about me. Um, you know, that yeah, that about me. Um, you know, that yeah, that about me. Um, you know, that yeah, that shows you who I am. It's an interesting shows you who I am. It's an interesting shows you who I am. It's an interesting birectional relationship here too, birectional relationship here too, birectional relationship here too, right? I think about the UK as well. Um, right? I think about the UK as well. Um, right? I think about the UK as well. Um, there is a good culture of mocking in there is a good culture of mocking in there is a good culture of mocking in the UK, especially as you're a kid the UK, especially as you're a kid the UK, especially as you're a kid growing up. There's a a piss taking growing up. There's a a piss taking growing up. There's a a piss taking banter back and forth. One of the banter back and forth. One of the banter back and forth. One of the interesting things there is if you try interesting things there is if you try interesting things there is if you try to put a slightly to put a slightly to put a slightly orthogonal orthogonal orthogonal opinion forward, I'm going to say opinion forward, I'm going to say opinion forward, I'm going to say something that's a little bit different something that's a little bit different something that's a little bit different to what most people expect. Typically, to what most people expect. Typically, to what most people expect. Typically, that's not met with, "Oh, that's really that's not met with, "Oh, that's really that's not met with, "Oh, that's really interesting. That's that's I've never interesting. That's that's I've never interesting. That's that's I've never thought about stuff like that before. thought about stuff like that before. thought about stuff like that before. That's really cool. I'm really glad that That's really cool. I'm really glad that That's really cool. I'm really glad that you brought that up. It's why would you you brought that up. It's why would you you brought that up. It's why would you say that? That's so strange." And I say that? That's so strange." And I say that? That's so strange." And I think if you think about that in the think if you think about that in the think if you think about that in the context of a relationship, the fact that context of a relationship, the fact that context of a relationship, the fact that this is going back and forth between two this is going back and forth between two this is going back and forth between two people means that the less it is people means that the less it is people means that the less it is encouraged and received. Wow. that thing encouraged and received. Wow. that thing encouraged and received. Wow. that thing that you said that was evidently that you said that was evidently that you said that was evidently surprising to me, that might have taken surprising to me, that might have taken surprising to me, that might have taken a little bit of effort for you to say a little bit of effort for you to say a little bit of effort for you to say that wasn't received and encouraged in that wasn't received and encouraged in that wasn't received and encouraged in the way that might make you want to the way that might make you want to the way that might make you want to continue to do it more. That means that continue to do it more. That means that continue to do it more. That means that you do it less and are less encouraged you do it less and are less encouraged you do it less and are less encouraged to do it, which means that I know you to do it, which means that I know you to do it, which means that I know you less, which means I don't get the less, which means I don't get the less, which means I don't get the opportunity to do it. opportunity to do it. opportunity to do it. >> It's a vicious cycle. And actually, >> It's a vicious cycle. And actually, >> It's a vicious cycle. And actually, someone was just telling me like they someone was just telling me like they someone was just telling me like they had one time they were vulnerable and had one time they were vulnerable and had one time they were vulnerable and they really got punished for it. They they really got punished for it. They they really got punished for it. They got judged for it. It was used against got judged for it. It was used against got judged for it. It was used against them. It was one out of a hundred times them. It was one out of a hundred times them. It was one out of a hundred times and yet they now don't want to reveal and yet they now don't want to reveal and yet they now don't want to reveal anything ever about themselves. Um, and anything ever about themselves. Um, and anything ever about themselves. Um, and we kind of overgeneralize from that. we kind of overgeneralize from that. we kind of overgeneralize from that. >> It's a formative experience. Like I mean >> It's a formative experience. Like I mean >> It's a formative experience. Like I mean how many times I see this online a lot how many times I see this online a lot how many times I see this online a lot and I'm aware people use the most and I'm aware people use the most and I'm aware people use the most extreme examples when they talk on the extreme examples when they talk on the extreme examples when they talk on the internet but how many times do you see internet but how many times do you see internet but how many times do you see some story online about a person who some story online about a person who some story online about a person who really tried to open up to a partner to really tried to open up to a partner to really tried to open up to a partner to a to a parent to a close friend to a a a to a parent to a close friend to a a a to a parent to a close friend to a a confidant and it was such a painful confidant and it was such a painful confidant and it was such a painful experience for them that like that is experience for them that like that is experience for them that like that is their formative experience of what their formative experience of what their formative experience of what opening up of what asking to be loved of opening up of what asking to be loved of opening up of what asking to be loved of what asking to be known feels like. And what asking to be known feels like. And what asking to be known feels like. And um yeah, that's that's ruthless. There's um yeah, that's that's ruthless. There's um yeah, that's that's ruthless. There's a um a um a um Rob Henderson, my friend, told me this Rob Henderson, my friend, told me this Rob Henderson, my friend, told me this idea where he said if you if you get idea where he said if you if you get idea where he said if you if you get rejected by one girl, but you've gone up rejected by one girl, but you've gone up rejected by one girl, but you've gone up to a hundred, even if you get rejected to a hundred, even if you get rejected to a hundred, even if you get rejected by a hundred, getting rejected by one is by a hundred, getting rejected by one is by a hundred, getting rejected by one is just another drop in the bucket. But if just another drop in the bucket. But if just another drop in the bucket. But if you've only ever gone up to one girl and you've only ever gone up to one girl and you've only ever gone up to one girl and you get rejected that one time, it's the you get rejected that one time, it's the you get rejected that one time, it's the biggest event in your entire life. And biggest event in your entire life. And biggest event in your entire life. And the same thing goes for, hey, maybe this the same thing goes for, hey, maybe this the same thing goes for, hey, maybe this is an example for if you're going to is an example for if you're going to is an example for if you're going to open up to somebody, make sure that the open up to somebody, make sure that the open up to somebody, make sure that the first one has got a high hit rate of at first one has got a high hit rate of at first one has got a high hit rate of at least not being an [ __ ] to you. least not being an [ __ ] to you. least not being an [ __ ] to you. >> Yeah. Exactly. Exact. But bad is >> Yeah. Exactly. Exact. But bad is >> Yeah. Exactly. Exact. But bad is stronger than good. So we remember those stronger than good. So we remember those stronger than good. So we remember those bad events. It also suggests that maybe bad events. It also suggests that maybe bad events. It also suggests that maybe a parenting uh something that parents a parenting uh something that parents a parenting uh something that parents should emphasize is like to to model should emphasize is like to to model should emphasize is like to to model kind of sharing, sharing and listening. kind of sharing, sharing and listening. kind of sharing, sharing and listening. And I should say that, you know, we And I should say that, you know, we And I should say that, you know, we really can't talk about sharing without really can't talk about sharing without really can't talk about sharing without talking about how the person responds as talking about how the person responds as talking about how the person responds as you say. And so actually feeling loved you say. And so actually feeling loved you say. And so actually feeling loved for me, I would argue, starts with for me, I would argue, starts with for me, I would argue, starts with curiosity, right? So it starts with curiosity, right? So it starts with curiosity, right? So it starts with really you being curious about me and really you being curious about me and really you being curious about me and asking deep questions and then I know I asking deep questions and then I know I asking deep questions and then I know I can share. I feel safe. I feel inspired can share. I feel safe. I feel inspired can share. I feel safe. I feel inspired to share. So I'm not just sharing out of to share. So I'm not just sharing out of to share. So I'm not just sharing out of the blue and I'm I have to guess whether the blue and I'm I have to guess whether the blue and I'm I have to guess whether you care or not or whether it's going to you care or not or whether it's going to you care or not or whether it's going to be uncomfortable or whether you're going be uncomfortable or whether you're going be uncomfortable or whether you're going to judge me or use it against me. So it to judge me or use it against me. So it to judge me or use it against me. So it really starts with curiosity. Um and really starts with curiosity. Um and really starts with curiosity. Um and genuine curiosity is so rare really when genuine curiosity is so rare really when genuine curiosity is so rare really when you think about it. how often that you think about it. how often that you think about it. how often that people really really care about what people really really care about what people really really care about what goes on in your inner life and like you goes on in your inner life and like you goes on in your inner life and like you know ask you a lot of questions. know ask you a lot of questions. know ask you a lot of questions. >> Um anyway, so that that's that's where >> Um anyway, so that that's that's where >> Um anyway, so that that's that's where really I'm coming from is that someone really I'm coming from is that someone really I'm coming from is that someone asks another person a a question they asks another person a a question they asks another person a a question they genuinely are interested in getting an genuinely are interested in getting an genuinely are interested in getting an answer to and then you share in answer to and then you share in answer to and then you share in response. You don't just kind of response. You don't just kind of response. You don't just kind of >> you know share out of the blue. >> you know share out of the blue. >> you know share out of the blue. >> Okay. So sharing mindset, stepping into >> Okay. So sharing mindset, stepping into >> Okay. So sharing mindset, stepping into an interaction an interaction an interaction >> with the understanding I'm going to put >> with the understanding I'm going to put >> with the understanding I'm going to put more of myself across than I might more of myself across than I might more of myself across than I might naturally uh tend to and that's going to naturally uh tend to and that's going to naturally uh tend to and that's going to happen. It's going to unfold over time. happen. It's going to unfold over time. happen. It's going to unfold over time. I'm not going to trauma dump I'm not going to trauma dump I'm not going to trauma dump immediately. Uh and what what else just immediately. Uh and what what else just immediately. Uh and what what else just on the sharing mindset? Are there any on the sharing mindset? Are there any on the sharing mindset? Are there any other sort of uh pitfalls that people other sort of uh pitfalls that people other sort of uh pitfalls that people need to be aware? need to be aware? need to be aware? >> So like go slow. Um well the >> So like go slow. Um well the >> So like go slow. Um well the vulnerability paradox which we're kind vulnerability paradox which we're kind vulnerability paradox which we're kind of hitting on without naming it. So of hitting on without naming it. So of hitting on without naming it. So vulnerability paradox is that we think vulnerability paradox is that we think vulnerability paradox is that we think being vulnerable will lead other people being vulnerable will lead other people being vulnerable will lead other people to like us less. to like us less. to like us less. >> On average, people like us more. >> On average, people like us more. >> On average, people like us more. >> It's interesting. Why do you think >> It's interesting. Why do you think >> It's interesting. Why do you think that's the case? that's the case? that's the case? >> So, so we think, yeah, we're we're so >> So, so we think, yeah, we're we're so >> So, so we think, yeah, we're we're so focused on the bad. Like I reveal some focused on the bad. Like I reveal some focused on the bad. Like I reveal some kind of I don't know like bad habit I kind of I don't know like bad habit I kind of I don't know like bad habit I have and the other and other people and have and the other and other people and have and the other and other people and we I think it's so terrible people will we I think it's so terrible people will we I think it's so terrible people will judge me and I'm embarrassed and other judge me and I'm embarrassed and other judge me and I'm embarrassed and other people just think it's human or maybe people just think it's human or maybe people just think it's human or maybe they have the same habit. Um, actually they have the same habit. Um, actually they have the same habit. Um, actually something happened to me a few weeks ago something happened to me a few weeks ago something happened to me a few weeks ago where I really I totally bombed giving a where I really I totally bombed giving a where I really I totally bombed giving a talk. Like I I I usually never do, but I talk. Like I I I usually never do, but I talk. Like I I I usually never do, but I just completely blanked out and I was just completely blanked out and I was just completely blanked out and I was just standing there on stage and I'm just standing there on stage and I'm just standing there on stage and I'm like, I don't know what comes next. I like, I don't know what comes next. I like, I don't know what comes next. I literally said, I don't know what what literally said, I don't know what what literally said, I don't know what what to say. And it was mortifying. And I to say. And it was mortifying. And I to say. And it was mortifying. And I can't tell you how many people came up can't tell you how many people came up can't tell you how many people came up to me later and were like, Sonia, like I to me later and were like, Sonia, like I to me later and were like, Sonia, like I I loved it. Like it just made you more I loved it. Like it just made you more I loved it. Like it just made you more human. You know they So the thing that I human. You know they So the thing that I human. You know they So the thing that I thought was mortifying other people thought was mortifying other people thought was mortifying other people thought was like acute human failure. I thought was like acute human failure. I thought was like acute human failure. I mean that's that's that was an unear are mean that's that's that was an unear are mean that's that's that was an unear are you familiar with the prat fall effect. you familiar with the prat fall effect. you familiar with the prat fall effect. Do you know this? Do you know this? Do you know this? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> So it's when somebody gets all of the >> So it's when somebody gets all of the >> So it's when somebody gets all of the answers right in a test but they drop answers right in a test but they drop answers right in a test but they drop their pencils on the way up to hand their pencils on the way up to hand their pencils on the way up to hand their paper in and it's a a British their paper in and it's a a British their paper in and it's a a British study the word pratt. I don't know study the word pratt. I don't know study the word pratt. I don't know whether the word pratt has come over to whether the word pratt has come over to whether the word pratt has come over to America. Anyway um we we like people who America. Anyway um we we like people who America. Anyway um we we like people who show their human side. Uh which is which show their human side. Uh which is which show their human side. Uh which is which is strange right? because there's an is strange right? because there's an is strange right? because there's an assumption that we just want everybody assumption that we just want everybody assumption that we just want everybody to be as perfect as possible. to be as perfect as possible. to be as perfect as possible. >> There's a great line from a famous >> There's a great line from a famous >> There's a great line from a famous screenwriter who said, "If you want to screenwriter who said, "If you want to screenwriter who said, "If you want to write a character that no one connects write a character that no one connects write a character that no one connects with, make them perfect." with, make them perfect." with, make them perfect." >> Right? So, we actually don't want >> Right? So, we actually don't want >> Right? So, we actually don't want perfection because it's not human. It's perfection because it's not human. It's perfection because it's not human. It's not interesting. It's not complex. not interesting. It's not complex. not interesting. It's not complex. >> I want to show you a video. Jared, can >> I want to show you a video. Jared, can >> I want to show you a video. Jared, can you pull up that video of that you pull up that video of that you pull up that video of that gymnastics girl? So, there's this gymnastics girl? So, there's this gymnastics girl? So, there's this there's a Look at this. Just watch watch there's a Look at this. Just watch watch there's a Look at this. Just watch watch this video. [crying] [crying] >> You are brave. >> You are brave. >> You are brave. >> Stop saying it. Brave. You are brave. >> Stop saying it. Brave. You are brave. >> Stop saying it. Brave. You are brave. You do things that no one else has ever You do things that no one else has ever You do things that no one else has ever done. You are doing skills that are done. You are doing skills that are done. You are doing skills that are insane to even adults. insane to even adults. insane to even adults. Okay? You have more courage in your Okay? You have more courage in your Okay? You have more courage in your little body than a thousand people have little body than a thousand people have little body than a thousand people have in all of their bodies combined. in all of their bodies combined. in all of their bodies combined. You are mine and I am yours. You are mine and I am yours. You are mine and I am yours. >> Nothing you can do will ever make me >> Nothing you can do will ever make me >> Nothing you can do will ever make me stop loving you. Nothing you will do stop loving you. Nothing you will do stop loving you. Nothing you will do will ever cause me to give up on you. will ever cause me to give up on you. will ever cause me to give up on you. I'm going to let you know when I think I'm going to let you know when I think I'm going to let you know when I think you're making a bad choice. you're making a bad choice. you're making a bad choice. >> I am not going to let you talk down on >> I am not going to let you talk down on >> I am not going to let you talk down on yourself. I'm not going to let you give yourself. I'm not going to let you give yourself. I'm not going to let you give up on yourself. And I'm not going to let up on yourself. And I'm not going to let up on yourself. And I'm not going to let you quit because something might be you quit because something might be you quit because something might be scary. You can quit if you truly don't scary. You can quit if you truly don't scary. You can quit if you truly don't love something. love something. love something. But you cannot quit because something But you cannot quit because something But you cannot quit because something might scare you. might scare you. might scare you. Okay? You are not failing me. And if I Okay? You are not failing me. And if I Okay? You are not failing me. And if I have made you feel like you are not good have made you feel like you are not good have made you feel like you are not good enough or that I don't care about you, enough or that I don't care about you, enough or that I don't care about you, then I have not done my job as a father. then I have not done my job as a father. then I have not done my job as a father. I love you very much. Okay? And I don't I love you very much. Okay? And I don't I love you very much. Okay? And I don't think that you're ever want to think that I wouldn't be ever want to think that I wouldn't be there and do whatever it takes to make there and do whatever it takes to make there and do whatever it takes to make sure that you can be successful doing sure that you can be successful doing sure that you can be successful doing whatever you want to do. is at the end whatever you want to do. is at the end whatever you want to do. is at the end of the day, this is something you have of the day, this is something you have of the day, this is something you have told me you want to do. Now, if you told me you want to do. Now, if you told me you want to do. Now, if you truly do not love cheer, guess what? You truly do not love cheer, guess what? You truly do not love cheer, guess what? You don't have to do cheer. If you truly don't have to do cheer. If you truly don't have to do cheer. If you truly love doing cheer, then yes, I'm going to love doing cheer, then yes, I'm going to love doing cheer, then yes, I'm going to let you know when I think you are making let you know when I think you are making let you know when I think you are making a silly decision because you don't think a silly decision because you don't think a silly decision because you don't think you're good enough or because you think you're good enough or because you think you're good enough or because you think something is too hard or too scary. something is too hard or too scary. something is too hard or too scary. [music] The only limits that you have [music] The only limits that you have [music] The only limits that you have are the limits that you put on yourself. are the limits that you put on yourself. are the limits that you put on yourself. If you keep telling yourself you [music] If you keep telling yourself you [music] If you keep telling yourself you [music] are incapable of doing something, guess are incapable of doing something, guess are incapable of doing something, guess what? You will prevent yourself from what? You will prevent yourself from what? You will prevent yourself from doing something. If you tell yourself doing something. If you tell yourself doing something. If you tell yourself that you can achieve something, even if that you can achieve something, even if that you can achieve something, even if it doesn't happen right away, guess it doesn't happen right away, guess it doesn't happen right away, guess what? You will eventually end up doing what? You will eventually end up doing what? You will eventually end up doing achieving it. achieving it. achieving it. [music] But we have to be able to be [music] But we have to be able to be [music] But we have to be able to be strong here. Okay? To make this do what strong here. Okay? To make this do what strong here. Okay? To make this do what we are capable of doing. It starts with we are capable of doing. It starts with we are capable of doing. It starts with this. Okay? this. Okay? this. Okay? >> What do you think of when you see that? >> What do you think of when you see that? >> What do you think of when you see that? >> Okay. A couple things. >> Okay. A couple things. >> Okay. A couple things. Um well it was beautiful that he could Um well it was beautiful that he could Um well it was beautiful that he could go underneath what her fear was not just go underneath what her fear was not just go underneath what her fear was not just she's afraid of you know doing this this she's afraid of you know doing this this she's afraid of you know doing this this flip but she's afraid that if she fails flip but she's afraid that if she fails flip but she's afraid that if she fails that maybe her dad won't love her which that maybe her dad won't love her which that maybe her dad won't love her which is really beautiful like he gets under is really beautiful like he gets under is really beautiful like he gets under with the fear and I do have one critique with the fear and I do have one critique with the fear and I do have one critique that was beautiful obviously what he that was beautiful obviously what he that was beautiful obviously what he said said said >> but I do have one critique of this dad >> but I do have one critique of this dad >> but I do have one critique of this dad >> well hey if anyone is open to feedback >> well hey if anyone is open to feedback >> well hey if anyone is open to feedback something tells me that it's Anthony the something tells me that it's Anthony the something tells me that it's Anthony the the dad the dad the dad >> and it is that the what what therap I'm >> and it is that the what what therap I'm >> and it is that the what what therap I'm not a therapist. What therapist says is not a therapist. What therapist says is not a therapist. What therapist says is that you want to first um validate what that you want to first um validate what that you want to first um validate what she said, right? So, she kept saying, she said, right? So, she kept saying, she said, right? So, she kept saying, "I'm scared." And he's like, "No, you're "I'm scared." And he's like, "No, you're "I'm scared." And he's like, "No, you're not scared." And and I guess the what not scared." And and I guess the what not scared." And and I guess the what you're supposed to do is kind of not you're supposed to do is kind of not you're supposed to do is kind of not supposed to do, right? Ideally, you want supposed to do, right? Ideally, you want supposed to do, right? Ideally, you want to kind of validate like, "I I to kind of validate like, "I I to kind of validate like, "I I understand you feel scared right now." understand you feel scared right now." understand you feel scared right now." Or something like that. And then go and Or something like that. And then go and Or something like that. And then go and talk about and give the speech that he talk about and give the speech that he talk about and give the speech that he gid in the emotions. gid in the emotions. gid in the emotions. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. First validate. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. First validate. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. First validate. Yeah. >> Is that important, do you think, when >> Is that important, do you think, when >> Is that important, do you think, when receiving love and trying to give it as receiving love and trying to give it as receiving love and trying to give it as well? well? well? >> It's so interesting. So one thing we >> It's so interesting. So one thing we >> It's so interesting. So one thing we talk about right let's say you're talk about right let's say you're talk about right let's say you're sharing more of yourself because you sharing more of yourself because you sharing more of yourself because you want to feel more loved and so you are want to feel more loved and so you are want to feel more loved and so you are sharing more of yourself and then I'm sharing more of yourself and then I'm sharing more of yourself and then I'm listening. So listening is so critical. listening. So listening is so critical. listening. So listening is so critical. Most of us are not very good listeners. Most of us are not very good listeners. Most of us are not very good listeners. And so what we do when we're trying to And so what we do when we're trying to And so what we do when we're trying to listen, turns out the one study showed listen, turns out the one study showed listen, turns out the one study showed 25% of the time when we're listening, 25% of the time when we're listening, 25% of the time when we're listening, our mind is wandering. And I bet it's our mind is wandering. And I bet it's our mind is wandering. And I bet it's higher than that because we have this higher than that because we have this higher than that because we have this inner chatter. We're like distracted or inner chatter. We're like distracted or inner chatter. We're like distracted or we're mostly we're rehearsing what we we're mostly we're rehearsing what we we're mostly we're rehearsing what we want to say next, right? How I'm going want to say next, right? How I'm going want to say next, right? How I'm going to respond to you. and and and we also to respond to you. and and and we also to respond to you. and and and we also want to sort of fix or give advice which want to sort of fix or give advice which want to sort of fix or give advice which I do all the time instead of just simply I do all the time instead of just simply I do all the time instead of just simply making the person feel heard which is making the person feel heard which is making the person feel heard which is what we're just talking about and just what we're just talking about and just what we're just talking about and just validate it right which is that like wow validate it right which is that like wow validate it right which is that like wow that must have been really hard or that that must have been really hard or that that must have been really hard or that must have been really inspiring you know must have been really inspiring you know must have been really inspiring you know how did that feel and again that sounds how did that feel and again that sounds how did that feel and again that sounds like therapy talk but you can put in like therapy talk but you can put in like therapy talk but you can put in your own words um I do think the your own words um I do think the your own words um I do think the pendulum has swung a little too far on pendulum has swung a little too far on pendulum has swung a little too far on like validating over fixing you know like validating over fixing you know like validating over fixing you know that nail in the head video that's so that nail in the head video that's so that nail in the head video that's so popular the woman who has this nail in popular the woman who has this nail in popular the woman who has this nail in the head. Oh, you got to watch this. the head. Oh, you got to watch this. the head. Oh, you got to watch this. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> So, she has a nail in the head and she's >> So, she has a nail in the head and she's >> So, she has a nail in the head and she's like, "Oh, I feel I'm in such pain and like, "Oh, I feel I'm in such pain and like, "Oh, I feel I'm in such pain and all my all my sweaters are are all my all my sweaters are are all my all my sweaters are are shredding." And the guy's like, "Well, shredding." And the guy's like, "Well, shredding." And the guy's like, "Well, you have this nail in your head." And you have this nail in your head." And you have this nail in your head." And and she's like, and basically the point and she's like, and basically the point and she's like, and basically the point of the video is she just wants to be of the video is she just wants to be of the video is she just wants to be heard. heard. heard. >> And then once he says, "I'm so sorry. It >> And then once he says, "I'm so sorry. It >> And then once he says, "I'm so sorry. It must be so painful for you to have a must be so painful for you to have a must be so painful for you to have a nail in your head." And she's like, nail in your head." And she's like, nail in your head." And she's like, "Ah." Right. And that's the point of the "Ah." Right. And that's the point of the "Ah." Right. And that's the point of the video. Whereas he keeps trying to give video. Whereas he keeps trying to give video. Whereas he keeps trying to give her advice. can you should take the nail her advice. can you should take the nail her advice. can you should take the nail out of your head and then you won't feel out of your head and then you won't feel out of your head and then you won't feel so so much in pain and you won't shred so so much in pain and you won't shred so so much in pain and you won't shred your sweaters. your sweaters. your sweaters. >> And I just think like yeah, it's like >> And I just think like yeah, it's like >> And I just think like yeah, it's like the again the pendulum is swung so far the again the pendulum is swung so far the again the pendulum is swung so far like cuz sometimes people kind of need like cuz sometimes people kind of need like cuz sometimes people kind of need like [ __ ] need advice, right? They like [ __ ] need advice, right? They like [ __ ] need advice, right? They need to be told take the nail out of the need to be told take the nail out of the need to be told take the nail out of the head. But I I agree that at first you head. But I I agree that at first you head. But I I agree that at first you want to validate and then give advice want to validate and then give advice want to validate and then give advice later. Most people don't realize how later. Most people don't realize how later. Most people don't realize how much being dehydrated impacts their much being dehydrated impacts their much being dehydrated impacts their performance, which is why for the last 5 performance, which is why for the last 5 performance, which is why for the last 5 years I've started pretty much every years I've started pretty much every years I've started pretty much every morning with Element. Element is a tasty morning with Element. Element is a tasty morning with Element. 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I understand what you mean about therapy speak maybe going mainstream to therapy speak maybe going mainstream to therapy speak maybe going mainstream to an extent where validation is given when an extent where validation is given when an extent where validation is given when it shouldn't be. A lot of people do need it shouldn't be. A lot of people do need it shouldn't be. A lot of people do need some tough love. I don't know whether some tough love. I don't know whether some tough love. I don't know whether good therapy speak has been widespread good therapy speak has been widespread good therapy speak has been widespread yet though. I get the sense that in a yet though. I get the sense that in a yet though. I get the sense that in a lot of these conversations it's still lot of these conversations it's still lot of these conversations it's still quite performative. It's people saying quite performative. It's people saying quite performative. It's people saying the thing that they've heard is kind of the thing that they've heard is kind of the thing that they've heard is kind of cool. Well, it's really important like cool. Well, it's really important like cool. Well, it's really important like to just follow your body and to just do to just follow your body and to just do to just follow your body and to just do what feels good for you as opposed to what feels good for you as opposed to what feels good for you as opposed to I'm going to sit in the muck with you. I'm going to sit in the muck with you. I'm going to sit in the muck with you. I'm going to sit in the discomfort, you I'm going to sit in the discomfort, you I'm going to sit in the discomfort, you know. Yeah, the validation thing. Good know. Yeah, the validation thing. Good know. Yeah, the validation thing. Good point. I'm sure Anthony will take it on point. I'm sure Anthony will take it on point. I'm sure Anthony will take it on board. Um, but he's sitting he's sitting board. Um, but he's sitting he's sitting board. Um, but he's sitting he's sitting in the emotion with his daughter, right? in the emotion with his daughter, right? in the emotion with his daughter, right? He's holding that space. It's He's holding that space. It's He's holding that space. It's unfortunate that holding space has kind unfortunate that holding space has kind unfortunate that holding space has kind of been memeified into of been memeified into of been memeified into >> I hate that phrase. >> I hate that phrase. >> I hate that phrase. >> Yeah, but it's that what it what it >> Yeah, but it's that what it what it >> Yeah, but it's that what it what it means is so good. It's just a shame that means is so good. It's just a shame that means is so good. It's just a shame that the phrase has become a cliche of itself the phrase has become a cliche of itself the phrase has become a cliche of itself in a way. Um, in a way. Um, in a way. Um, >> but well, there's there's one kind of >> but well, there's there's one kind of >> but well, there's there's one kind of therapist speak that I think is is so therapist speak that I think is is so therapist speak that I think is is so amazing and effective and it's amazing and effective and it's amazing and effective and it's nonviolent communication, right? It's nonviolent communication, right? It's nonviolent communication, right? It's using I statements, right? So, so I feel using I statements, right? So, so I feel using I statements, right? So, so I feel hurt when you do this as opposed to why hurt when you do this as opposed to why hurt when you do this as opposed to why do you always do this? You know, what's do you always do this? You know, what's do you always do this? You know, what's wrong with you? And so, um, and that, wrong with you? And so, um, and that, wrong with you? And so, um, and that, yeah, I that is just so effective has yeah, I that is just so effective has yeah, I that is just so effective has been shown to be effective in so many been shown to be effective in so many been shown to be effective in so many contexts. And people are doing it more contexts. And people are doing it more contexts. And people are doing it more again, instead of accusing the other again, instead of accusing the other again, instead of accusing the other person, it's about you. So, like it's person, it's about you. So, like it's person, it's about you. So, like it's not like you're doing this, it's like I not like you're doing this, it's like I not like you're doing this, it's like I feel this way when when I see this or feel this way when when I see this or feel this way when when I see this or it's my understanding or the story I'm it's my understanding or the story I'm it's my understanding or the story I'm telling myself is that you're um and telling myself is that you're um and telling myself is that you're um and then you and then you ask and then you then you and then you ask and then you then you and then you ask and then you have a request. Um, so, um, I'm a big have a request. Um, so, um, I'm a big have a request. Um, so, um, I'm a big believer in nonviolent communication believer in nonviolent communication believer in nonviolent communication >> and the TLDDR of that is I statements, >> and the TLDDR of that is I statements, >> and the TLDDR of that is I statements, not you statements. not you statements. not you statements. >> Yeah, there's a whole process to it, but >> Yeah, there's a whole process to it, but >> Yeah, there's a whole process to it, but it's sort of I feel this when you, you it's sort of I feel this when you, you it's sort of I feel this when you, you know, so let's say, yeah, like let's say know, so let's say, yeah, like let's say know, so let's say, yeah, like let's say the person never cleaning up, you know, the person never cleaning up, you know, the person never cleaning up, you know, I feel, you know, I I don't overburdened I feel, you know, I I don't overburdened I feel, you know, I I don't overburdened when you don't wash the dishes, when you when you don't wash the dishes, when you when you don't wash the dishes, when you do this. Um, you know, I'd like to, you do this. Um, you know, I'd like to, you do this. Um, you know, I'd like to, you know, talk about I'd like to understand know, talk about I'd like to understand know, talk about I'd like to understand what's going on. Maybe you you're really what's going on. Maybe you you're really what's going on. Maybe you you're really stressed out at work. stressed out at work. stressed out at work. >> Um, you know, and then you have a and >> Um, you know, and then you have a and >> Um, you know, and then you have a and the hard part is the request. It's like the hard part is the request. It's like the hard part is the request. It's like what do you actually It's easier to what do you actually It's easier to what do you actually It's easier to criticize. It's harder to kind of ask. criticize. It's harder to kind of ask. criticize. It's harder to kind of ask. The ask is the hard part. You know, I The ask is the hard part. You know, I The ask is the hard part. You know, I would would would >> it's it's vulnerable. >> it's it's vulnerable. >> it's it's vulnerable. >> Um to sort of ask to say I I Yeah, it's >> Um to sort of ask to say I I Yeah, it's >> Um to sort of ask to say I I Yeah, it's hard to ask. That's a funny It's almost hard to ask. That's a funny It's almost hard to ask. That's a funny It's almost obvious to me why. obvious to me why. obvious to me why. >> Maybe it's not so obvious. I would love >> Maybe it's not so obvious. I would love >> Maybe it's not so obvious. I would love for us to come up with an agreement for us to come up with an agreement for us to come up with an agreement about how you split how we split chores. about how you split how we split chores. about how you split how we split chores. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. >> Um, so yeah, I statements. >> Um, so yeah, I statements. >> Um, so yeah, I statements. >> Yeah. I I guess criticizing somebody >> Yeah. I I guess criticizing somebody >> Yeah. I I guess criticizing somebody else puts the ball in their court. It else puts the ball in their court. It else puts the ball in their court. It also makes your displeasure known and also makes your displeasure known and also makes your displeasure known and and and and like uh abscon you of having to take like uh abscon you of having to take like uh abscon you of having to take responsibility, but putting yourself responsibility, but putting yourself responsibility, but putting yourself forward and going, I would really like forward and going, I would really like forward and going, I would really like it if you did that is another it if you did that is another it if you did that is another opportunity for this person to hurt you. opportunity for this person to hurt you. opportunity for this person to hurt you. >> Right? It's like, I'm going to request >> Right? It's like, I'm going to request >> Right? It's like, I'm going to request this thing. Not only have you done this this thing. Not only have you done this this thing. Not only have you done this thing that pissed me off that I've now thing that pissed me off that I've now thing that pissed me off that I've now had to tell you about, I've had to tell had to tell you about, I've had to tell had to tell you about, I've had to tell you that it's hurt me, but I'm now going you that it's hurt me, but I'm now going you that it's hurt me, but I'm now going to like offer you this thing to like offer you this thing to like offer you this thing that you could reject this request. that you could reject this request. that you could reject this request. >> That's why it's that's why it's >> That's why it's that's why it's >> That's why it's that's why it's vulnerable because you're risking vulnerable because you're risking vulnerable because you're risking rejection rejection rejection >> and that's life. Sometimes you'll be >> and that's life. Sometimes you'll be >> and that's life. Sometimes you'll be rejected. What's your advice to people rejected. What's your advice to people rejected. What's your advice to people who when they get to the precipice of who when they get to the precipice of who when they get to the precipice of vulnerability of exposing a little bit vulnerability of exposing a little bit vulnerability of exposing a little bit more of themselves than they feel like more of themselves than they feel like more of themselves than they feel like they should that [snorts] they should that [snorts] they should that [snorts] that sort of fear comes up and the that sort of fear comes up and the that sort of fear comes up and the tightness in the chest and the ringing tightness in the chest and the ringing tightness in the chest and the ringing in the ears? What is your advice to them in the ears? What is your advice to them in the ears? What is your advice to them in that moment? >> I mean part of my advice is just to go >> I mean part of my advice is just to go for it. Take the leap. So many great for it. Take the leap. So many great for it. Take the leap. So many great things in life involve taking risks. things in life involve taking risks. things in life involve taking risks. Almost everything, right? like having a Almost everything, right? like having a Almost everything, right? like having a baby, you know, going for that job that baby, you know, going for that job that baby, you know, going for that job that you know, moving to a different city. you know, moving to a different city. you know, moving to a different city. Um, but before they they take that leap, Um, but before they they take that leap, Um, but before they they take that leap, I would go slow, right? So maybe the I would go slow, right? So maybe the I would go slow, right? So maybe the first time just you Yeah. Um, reveal first time just you Yeah. Um, reveal first time just you Yeah. Um, reveal something smaller and then take a Yeah. something smaller and then take a Yeah. something smaller and then take a Yeah. Take a baby steps, I would say. Take a baby steps, I would say. Take a baby steps, I would say. >> Mhm. Okay. So, listening to learn. >> Mhm. Okay. So, listening to learn. >> Mhm. Okay. So, listening to learn. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> People are not just playing the game of >> People are not just playing the game of >> People are not just playing the game of tennis waiting to hit the ball back. tennis waiting to hit the ball back. tennis waiting to hit the ball back. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Uh, genuine curiosity. What else? >> Uh, genuine curiosity. What else? >> Uh, genuine curiosity. What else? >> We talked about sharing. So, curiosity, >> We talked about sharing. So, curiosity, >> We talked about sharing. So, curiosity, listen. So, so you start with curiosity. listen. So, so you start with curiosity. listen. So, so you start with curiosity. Like, I'm really interested in you. And Like, I'm really interested in you. And Like, I'm really interested in you. And curiosity, by the way, has an enthusiasm curiosity, by the way, has an enthusiasm curiosity, by the way, has an enthusiasm component, right? Like, I'm really I'm component, right? Like, I'm really I'm component, right? Like, I'm really I'm excited to hear what you have to say. excited to hear what you have to say. excited to hear what you have to say. That's why it's such a gift, right? That's why it's such a gift, right? That's why it's such a gift, right? Like, how often does that happen when Like, how often does that happen when Like, how often does that happen when someone's so excited? Charismatic people someone's so excited? Charismatic people someone's so excited? Charismatic people are really good at this, right? That's are really good at this, right? That's are really good at this, right? That's why we flock to them because they're so why we flock to them because they're so why we flock to them because they're so excited to hear what you have to say. excited to hear what you have to say. excited to hear what you have to say. So, it starts with curiosity, then you So, it starts with curiosity, then you So, it starts with curiosity, then you tell so I'm curious about you, then you tell so I'm curious about you, then you tell so I'm curious about you, then you start sharing, which is hard. And but start sharing, which is hard. And but start sharing, which is hard. And but I'm I'm validating and I'm supporting I'm I'm validating and I'm supporting I'm I'm validating and I'm supporting your sharing by like really listening your sharing by like really listening your sharing by like really listening and asking questions. So question asking and asking questions. So question asking and asking questions. So question asking is not talked about or even studied that is not talked about or even studied that is not talked about or even studied that much. So important. We don't ask each much. So important. We don't ask each much. So important. We don't ask each other enough questions. other enough questions. other enough questions. So research shows that we think that So research shows that we think that So research shows that we think that especially asking deep questions. If I especially asking deep questions. If I especially asking deep questions. If I ask you a deep question, I'll think ah ask you a deep question, I'll think ah ask you a deep question, I'll think ah uh he's going to think I'm crying, that uh he's going to think I'm crying, that uh he's going to think I'm crying, that I'm being a little nosy. I'm being a little nosy. I'm being a little nosy. >> And sometimes that happens. But on >> And sometimes that happens. But on >> And sometimes that happens. But on average, people crave to be seen, right? average, people crave to be seen, right? average, people crave to be seen, right? they want to be known. they want to be known. they want to be known. >> Um, I have an example for my daughter >> Um, I have an example for my daughter >> Um, I have an example for my daughter who has a roommate who was having a lot who has a roommate who was having a lot who has a roommate who was having a lot of problems and her her family was of problems and her her family was of problems and her her family was coming over. They were crying. There coming over. They were crying. There coming over. They were crying. There were all these sort of sessions and they were all these sort of sessions and they were all these sort of sessions and they were speaking Spanish. So, she didn't were speaking Spanish. So, she didn't were speaking Spanish. So, she didn't know. My daughter didn't know what they know. My daughter didn't know what they know. My daughter didn't know what they were saying. So, I said to my daughter, were saying. So, I said to my daughter, were saying. So, I said to my daughter, "Why don't you talk to your roommate and "Why don't you talk to your roommate and "Why don't you talk to your roommate and ask her what's going on?" And she said, ask her what's going on?" And she said, ask her what's going on?" And she said, "Oh, mom, I I I couldn't do that. She'll "Oh, mom, I I I couldn't do that. She'll "Oh, mom, I I I couldn't do that. She'll think I'm crying." M think I'm crying." M think I'm crying." M >> and I think, you know, she could be >> and I think, you know, she could be >> and I think, you know, she could be right, but I think mo most likely she's right, but I think mo most likely she's right, but I think mo most likely she's wrong that this roommate probably would wrong that this roommate probably would wrong that this roommate probably would feel really supported and loved if she feel really supported and loved if she feel really supported and loved if she uh if she was asked about it. uh if she was asked about it. uh if she was asked about it. >> So, but we usually think Yeah. So, we >> So, but we usually think Yeah. So, we >> So, but we usually think Yeah. So, we don't ask enough questions. So, ask your don't ask enough questions. So, ask your don't ask enough questions. So, ask your friends, colleagues, and partners those friends, colleagues, and partners those friends, colleagues, and partners those deep questions. deep questions. deep questions. >> Okay. And that's radical curiosity. >> Okay. And that's radical curiosity. >> Okay. And that's radical curiosity. >> That's part of radical curiosity and >> That's part of radical curiosity and >> That's part of radical curiosity and part of listening because it's listening part of listening because it's listening part of listening because it's listening is a back and forth. And then there's is a back and forth. And then there's is a back and forth. And then there's two more mindsets we talk about. One is two more mindsets we talk about. One is two more mindsets we talk about. One is called open heart and it's almost like called open heart and it's almost like called open heart and it's almost like an obvious one. You know, I I think open an obvious one. You know, I I think open an obvious one. You know, I I think open heart is basically warmth, kindness, heart is basically warmth, kindness, heart is basically warmth, kindness, believing in the other person, wanting believing in the other person, wanting believing in the other person, wanting their them to be happy, wanting their their them to be happy, wanting their their them to be happy, wanting their dreams to come true. It's it's I say dreams to come true. It's it's I say dreams to come true. It's it's I say it's obvious because I would think most it's obvious because I would think most it's obvious because I would think most stable relationships have that mindset. stable relationships have that mindset. stable relationships have that mindset. >> It's the other mindsets that often pe >> It's the other mindsets that often pe >> It's the other mindsets that often pe people don't necessarily have. So, I people don't necessarily have. So, I people don't necessarily have. So, I actually we sent the book to a few early actually we sent the book to a few early actually we sent the book to a few early readers and um two of my male friends readers and um two of my male friends readers and um two of my male friends said they they're like, "We love the said they they're like, "We love the said they they're like, "We love the book, but they broke up with their book, but they broke up with their book, but they broke up with their girlfriends after reading the book." girlfriends after reading the book." girlfriends after reading the book." >> And it and we were I was really >> And it and we were I was really >> And it and we were I was really surprised cuz I thought it was surprised cuz I thought it was surprised cuz I thought it was prescriptive like, "Oh, do this, listen prescriptive like, "Oh, do this, listen prescriptive like, "Oh, do this, listen better, you know, show curiosity." But better, you know, show curiosity." But better, you know, show curiosity." But they actually used it to hold a mirror they actually used it to hold a mirror they actually used it to hold a mirror to their relationships. So, they had the to their relationships. So, they had the to their relationships. So, they had the open heart. They had kindness and warmth open heart. They had kindness and warmth open heart. They had kindness and warmth and belief in the other person, but one and belief in the other person, but one and belief in the other person, but one person said, "She's not really sharing person said, "She's not really sharing person said, "She's not really sharing and I'm not really sharing." And another and I'm not really sharing." And another and I'm not really sharing." And another person said, "My girlfriend is no longer person said, "My girlfriend is no longer person said, "My girlfriend is no longer curious about my work. She never asks curious about my work. She never asks curious about my work. She never asks about it." Um, and so those are really about it." Um, and so those are really about it." Um, and so those are really important and and need to be worked on. important and and need to be worked on. important and and need to be worked on. The open heart, I think, is one that I The open heart, I think, is one that I The open heart, I think, is one that I would hope most relationships already would hope most relationships already would hope most relationships already have. have. have. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And the but the last one is my >> Yeah. And the but the last one is my >> Yeah. And the but the last one is my favorite. The last mindset is called favorite. The last mindset is called favorite. The last mindset is called multiplicity. multiplicity. multiplicity. So the term multiplicity, I'm told, So the term multiplicity, I'm told, So the term multiplicity, I'm told, comes from trauma research. The idea if comes from trauma research. The idea if comes from trauma research. The idea if you have a trauma, it doesn't define you have a trauma, it doesn't define you have a trauma, it doesn't define you. It's like you're a quilt of many, you. It's like you're a quilt of many, you. It's like you're a quilt of many, many things. Of course, you have the many things. Of course, you have the many things. Of course, you have the trauma, you can't take it away, but it trauma, you can't take it away, but it trauma, you can't take it away, but it doesn't define you. That we're all, doesn't define you. That we're all, doesn't define you. That we're all, we're all multi, you know, the Walt we're all multi, you know, the Walt we're all multi, you know, the Walt Whitman quote, you know, I am Whitman quote, you know, I am Whitman quote, you know, I am multitudes. I contain multitudes. Um, so multitudes. I contain multitudes. Um, so multitudes. I contain multitudes. Um, so I'm like a quilt of both positive and I'm like a quilt of both positive and I'm like a quilt of both positive and negative qualities and traits and negative qualities and traits and negative qualities and traits and behaviors, right? So sometimes I'm kind behaviors, right? So sometimes I'm kind behaviors, right? So sometimes I'm kind and other times I'm selfish. Sometimes and other times I'm selfish. Sometimes and other times I'm selfish. Sometimes I'm loyal and sometimes I'm I'm loyal and sometimes I'm I'm loyal and sometimes I'm narcissistic. And we're all like that, narcissistic. And we're all like that, narcissistic. And we're all like that, right? And sort of use that multiplicity right? And sort of use that multiplicity right? And sort of use that multiplicity lens to turn on the other person. So lens to turn on the other person. So lens to turn on the other person. So when you're revealing your story and when you're revealing your story and when you're revealing your story and something you say something I might something you say something I might something you say something I might disapprove of makes me uncomfortable, I disapprove of makes me uncomfortable, I disapprove of makes me uncomfortable, I use a multiplicity lens and see you as a use a multiplicity lens and see you as a use a multiplicity lens and see you as a human in all of your complexity. And human in all of your complexity. And human in all of your complexity. And what's interesting about that is that what's interesting about that is that what's interesting about that is that when I tell this to people, everyone when I tell this to people, everyone when I tell this to people, everyone nods and they're like, "Oh, yeah, of nods and they're like, "Oh, yeah, of nods and they're like, "Oh, yeah, of course." And then when you actually give course." And then when you actually give course." And then when you actually give specific examples, it's really hard, specific examples, it's really hard, specific examples, it's really hard, right? People will say, "Oh, what a right? People will say, "Oh, what a right? People will say, "Oh, what a jerk. jerk. jerk. Right. What what an [ __ ] Like he did Right. What what an [ __ ] Like he did Right. What what an [ __ ] Like he did that or she did that. Um so that's a that or she did that. Um so that's a that or she did that. Um so that's a really hard one. really hard one. really hard one. >> Yeah. I um I think it's difficult for so >> Yeah. I um I think it's difficult for so >> Yeah. I um I think it's difficult for so few people want to sit in a discomfort few people want to sit in a discomfort few people want to sit in a discomfort zone a tough emotion and their solution zone a tough emotion and their solution zone a tough emotion and their solution is to just fix it to just say if I just is to just fix it to just say if I just is to just fix it to just say if I just come up with the solution to this thing come up with the solution to this thing come up with the solution to this thing we don't need to worry about it anymore. we don't need to worry about it anymore. we don't need to worry about it anymore. M what will be the solution to uh to M what will be the solution to uh to M what will be the solution to uh to someone reveals something negative about someone reveals something negative about someone reveals something negative about them them them >> about themselves? I don't want you to >> about themselves? I don't want you to >> about themselves? I don't want you to feel that way anymore. Allow me to feel that way anymore. Allow me to feel that way anymore. Allow me to minimize it. Allow me to uh tell you minimize it. Allow me to uh tell you minimize it. Allow me to uh tell you what you can do. Like um this person at what you can do. Like um this person at what you can do. Like um this person at work keeps mistreating me in this way work keeps mistreating me in this way work keeps mistreating me in this way and every time that they do it makes me and every time that they do it makes me and every time that they do it makes me feel really small and I'm worried that feel really small and I'm worried that feel really small and I'm worried that they don't like me and I think that I they don't like me and I think that I they don't like me and I think that I don't really belong there anymore. Well, don't really belong there anymore. Well, don't really belong there anymore. Well, she's a [ __ ] anyway and you shouldn't she's a [ __ ] anyway and you shouldn't she's a [ __ ] anyway and you shouldn't do it. and you're like, "Hey, dude, do it. and you're like, "Hey, dude, do it. and you're like, "Hey, dude, you're not you're not in this with me. you're not you're not in this with me. you're not you're not in this with me. What I want to hear from you is, damn, What I want to hear from you is, damn, What I want to hear from you is, damn, that must be that must be really hard to that must be that must be really hard to that must be that must be really hard to go through. go through. go through. What What's that been like over the last What What's that been like over the last What What's that been like over the last couple of months?" Or what do you what couple of months?" Or what do you what couple of months?" Or what do you what are you worried this means? Or what's are you worried this means? Or what's are you worried this means? Or what's the emotion just after that happens? the emotion just after that happens? the emotion just after that happens? Like, okay, like I'm someone cares. Like, okay, like I'm someone cares. Like, okay, like I'm someone cares. Someone cares enough to do that. And uh Someone cares enough to do that. And uh Someone cares enough to do that. And uh yeah, I just think people's yeah, I just think people's yeah, I just think people's it comes from two two directions. It it comes from two two directions. It it comes from two two directions. It comes from I don't want this person who comes from I don't want this person who comes from I don't want this person who I care about to suffer anymore and also I care about to suffer anymore and also I care about to suffer anymore and also I don't want to be in this discomfort I don't want to be in this discomfort I don't want to be in this discomfort anymore. And both of those things anymore. And both of those things anymore. And both of those things together can be wrapped up in a I'll together can be wrapped up in a I'll together can be wrapped up in a I'll just fix it, minimize it, or make it go just fix it, minimize it, or make it go just fix it, minimize it, or make it go away. away. away. >> Um uh I had a coach once and some a >> Um uh I had a coach once and some a >> Um uh I had a coach once and some a friend did something that I was really friend did something that I was really friend did something that I was really upset about. And so I'm talking to the upset about. And so I'm talking to the upset about. And so I'm talking to the coach and I'm doing that. I'm coach and I'm doing that. I'm coach and I'm doing that. I'm minimizing. I'm thinking, "Oh, well, minimizing. I'm thinking, "Oh, well, minimizing. I'm thinking, "Oh, well, because of this and this reason, they because of this and this reason, they because of this and this reason, they must have done it." And the coach said, must have done it." And the coach said, must have done it." And the coach said, "Sonia, just stop it right now." And he "Sonia, just stop it right now." And he "Sonia, just stop it right now." And he said, "Skip right over the rumination said, "Skip right over the rumination said, "Skip right over the rumination and the justification, the and the justification, the and the justification, the rationalization, and right onto sadness. rationalization, and right onto sadness. rationalization, and right onto sadness. Go right go straight to sadness, which Go right go straight to sadness, which Go right go straight to sadness, which is just be sad that your friend did is just be sad that your friend did is just be sad that your friend did this, right?" Which is kind of like what this, right?" Which is kind of like what this, right?" Which is kind of like what you're saying. Sort of sit in it you're saying. Sort of sit in it you're saying. Sort of sit in it >> and then you can, you know, rationalize. >> and then you can, you know, rationalize. >> and then you can, you know, rationalize. But but the rationalization like you But but the rationalization like you But but the rationalization like you know there's a fine line between kind of know there's a fine line between kind of know there's a fine line between kind of condoning justifying and compassion condoning justifying and compassion condoning justifying and compassion >> right when is it compassion where you >> right when is it compassion where you >> right when is it compassion where you see someone and they do something kind see someone and they do something kind see someone and they do something kind of terrible and you can see like this of terrible and you can see like this of terrible and you can see like this happened once with my friends where this happened once with my friends where this happened once with my friends where this guy said something really terrible in a guy said something really terrible in a guy said something really terrible in a text. And we're like oh what a jerk. And text. And we're like oh what a jerk. And text. And we're like oh what a jerk. And one of my friends said you know when I one of my friends said you know when I one of my friends said you know when I read that text I see the little boy read that text I see the little boy read that text I see the little boy inside of him or I see the teenage boy inside of him or I see the teenage boy inside of him or I see the teenage boy >> who used to be rejected by girls. And so >> who used to be rejected by girls. And so >> who used to be rejected by girls. And so whatever he got triggered, it's not whatever he got triggered, it's not whatever he got triggered, it's not excusing or condoning or justifying, but excusing or condoning or justifying, but excusing or condoning or justifying, but it's having compassion. Uh and and I it's having compassion. Uh and and I it's having compassion. Uh and and I don't know, it really helps me to see don't know, it really helps me to see don't know, it really helps me to see people in this sort of more complex people in this sort of more complex people in this sort of more complex light. Again, it doesn't mean I want to light. Again, it doesn't mean I want to light. Again, it doesn't mean I want to hang out with him, but I again I think hang out with him, but I again I think hang out with him, but I again I think that compassion um is really helpful. that compassion um is really helpful. that compassion um is really helpful. >> What do you think of the things in a >> What do you think of the things in a >> What do you think of the things in a relationship that makes people feel relationship that makes people feel relationship that makes people feel unloved the most? unloved the most? unloved the most? I think when people kind of feel a I think when people kind of feel a I think when people kind of feel a little like I guess when they start to little like I guess when they start to little like I guess when they start to feel invisible feel invisible feel invisible and the other person stops noticing well and the other person stops noticing well and the other person stops noticing well stops asking questions or we talked stops asking questions or we talked stops asking questions or we talked about that stops being curious about you about that stops being curious about you about that stops being curious about you we often stop being curious about the we often stop being curious about the we often stop being curious about the people we've known the longest right people we've known the longest right people we've known the longest right because we think oh I know everything because we think oh I know everything because we think oh I know everything about them about them about them >> and of course you don't because every >> and of course you don't because every >> and of course you don't because every day we're having new fears and dreams day we're having new fears and dreams day we're having new fears and dreams and self-doubts right and regrets um so and self-doubts right and regrets um so and self-doubts right and regrets um so stopping being curious but the other stopping being curious but the other stopping being curious but the other thing is yeah just kind of feeling yeah thing is yeah just kind of feeling yeah thing is yeah just kind of feeling yeah like they that you're invisible they like they that you're invisible they like they that you're invisible they They're not noticing the little things. They're not noticing the little things. They're not noticing the little things. You know, when we ask people what makes You know, when we ask people what makes You know, when we ask people what makes them feel loved, a lot of them were them feel loved, a lot of them were them feel loved, a lot of them were those little things like like I remember those little things like like I remember those little things like like I remember being at a party and friends would bring being at a party and friends would bring being at a party and friends would bring me like a piece of fruit or water or a me like a piece of fruit or water or a me like a piece of fruit or water or a blanket. And before I even knew I wanted blanket. And before I even knew I wanted blanket. And before I even knew I wanted those things, they're like, "Sonia, you those things, they're like, "Sonia, you those things, they're like, "Sonia, you you need this water. You need a blanket you need this water. You need a blanket you need this water. You need a blanket cuz you seem cold." And I'm like, "Oh, I cuz you seem cold." And I'm like, "Oh, I cuz you seem cold." And I'm like, "Oh, I didn't even know I needed a blanket." didn't even know I needed a blanket." didn't even know I needed a blanket." And so like when pe when you feel loved And so like when pe when you feel loved And so like when pe when you feel loved is when people you you feel loved when is when people you you feel loved when is when people you you feel loved when people are doing they're noticing you people are doing they're noticing you people are doing they're noticing you and they're noticing things that you and they're noticing things that you and they're noticing things that you need before you even need before you need before you even need before you need before you even need before you even realize you need them. So those even realize you need them. So those even realize you need them. So those little things when and when your partner little things when and when your partner little things when and when your partner your best friend sort of stops noticing your best friend sort of stops noticing your best friend sort of stops noticing those things you you don't feel loved. those things you you don't feel loved. those things you you don't feel loved. >> Have you looked at the whatever the >> Have you looked at the whatever the >> Have you looked at the whatever the strongest predictors are of long-term strongest predictors are of long-term strongest predictors are of long-term relationship satisfaction? relationship satisfaction? relationship satisfaction? >> So I partnered with a love scientist to >> So I partnered with a love scientist to >> So I partnered with a love scientist to write this book because I'm really more write this book because I'm really more write this book because I'm really more of a happiness scientist. I don't think of a happiness scientist. I don't think of a happiness scientist. I don't think I can answer this question, but I will I can answer this question, but I will I can answer this question, but I will tell you a really interesting finding tell you a really interesting finding tell you a really interesting finding that we do talk about, which is how do that we do talk about, which is how do that we do talk about, which is how do you respond to good versus bad news in a you respond to good versus bad news in a you respond to good versus bad news in a relationship, right? You come home and relationship, right? You come home and relationship, right? You come home and you say, "Hey honey, um uh I got laid you say, "Hey honey, um uh I got laid you say, "Hey honey, um uh I got laid off." Uh or, you know, something bad off." Uh or, you know, something bad off." Uh or, you know, something bad happened. My car the car broke down. And happened. My car the car broke down. And happened. My car the car broke down. And everyone kind of knows how to respond to everyone kind of knows how to respond to everyone kind of knows how to respond to bad news or sort of something bad that bad news or sort of something bad that bad news or sort of something bad that happened. Um but what if you come home happened. Um but what if you come home happened. Um but what if you come home and you say, "Hi honey, I got a new job and you say, "Hi honey, I got a new job and you say, "Hi honey, I got a new job offer in New York." offer in New York." offer in New York." >> Right? [clears throat] >> Right? [clears throat] >> Right? [clears throat] So, it turns out how we respond to good So, it turns out how we respond to good So, it turns out how we respond to good news is a better predictor of news is a better predictor of news is a better predictor of relationship duration than how to how we relationship duration than how to how we relationship duration than how to how we respond to bad news because it's so it's respond to bad news because it's so it's respond to bad news because it's so it's not easy, right? You got a job offered not easy, right? You got a job offered not easy, right? You got a job offered in New York. I mean, it could be in New York. I mean, it could be in New York. I mean, it could be threatening. Does that mean we have to threatening. Does that mean we have to threatening. Does that mean we have to move? Does that mean you're going to move? Does that mean you're going to move? Does that mean you're going to work harder so you don't have time to, work harder so you don't have time to, work harder so you don't have time to, you know, with the kids? Maybe you might you know, with the kids? Maybe you might you know, with the kids? Maybe you might even be envious that like my career even be envious that like my career even be envious that like my career isn't going as well as yours. And so isn't going as well as yours. And so isn't going as well as yours. And so what research shows is the the best, you what research shows is the the best, you what research shows is the the best, you know, well, the the the reaction that is know, well, the the the reaction that is know, well, the the the reaction that is predictive of relationship duration is predictive of relationship duration is predictive of relationship duration is truly celebrating good news with your truly celebrating good news with your truly celebrating good news with your partner, right? Being like that's so partner, right? Being like that's so partner, right? Being like that's so amazing being enthusiastic, right? amazing being enthusiastic, right? amazing being enthusiastic, right? That's so amazing. Tell me what That's so amazing. Tell me what That's so amazing. Tell me what happened, how did you know, what did happened, how did you know, what did happened, how did you know, what did they say? You know, how did you feel? Um they say? You know, how did you feel? Um they say? You know, how did you feel? Um >> maybe later you can deal with some of >> maybe later you can deal with some of >> maybe later you can deal with some of the insecurities that come out of that, the insecurities that come out of that, the insecurities that come out of that, right? right? right? >> But so so anyway, that is one factor >> But so so anyway, that is one factor >> But so so anyway, that is one factor that predicts relationship strength is that predicts relationship strength is that predicts relationship strength is is celebrating. is called capitalizing, is celebrating. is called capitalizing, is celebrating. is called capitalizing, celebrating good things. celebrating good things. celebrating good things. >> This episode is brought to you by Whoop. >> This episode is brought to you by Whoop. >> This episode is brought to you by Whoop. According to my Whoop, I've tracked According to my Whoop, I've tracked According to my Whoop, I've tracked nearly 2,000 days of my life. And the nearly 2,000 days of my life. And the nearly 2,000 days of my life. And the thing that still gets me is that I could thing that still gets me is that I could thing that still gets me is that I could have predicted almost every bad day have predicted almost every bad day have predicted almost every bad day before it happens. That's because Whoop before it happens. That's because Whoop before it happens. That's because Whoop gives you a complete picture of your gives you a complete picture of your gives you a complete picture of your health every single day. Your sleep, health every single day. Your sleep, health every single day. Your sleep, your workouts, your recovery, your your workouts, your recovery, your your workouts, your recovery, your breathing, your heart rate, even your breathing, your heart rate, even your breathing, your heart rate, even your steps. And over time, you get to see steps. And over time, you get to see steps. 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It's interesting how how much easier it is to sort of care for easier it is to sort of care for easier it is to sort of care for somebody who's struggling than it is to somebody who's struggling than it is to somebody who's struggling than it is to celebrate somebody who's winning many celebrate somebody who's winning many celebrate somebody who's winning many ways. ways. ways. >> Yeah. And you know what? How many people >> Yeah. And you know what? How many people >> Yeah. And you know what? How many people the list of people that you share your the list of people that you share your the list of people that you share your wins with is a small list. Is that wins with is a small list. Is that wins with is a small list. Is that right? Right. Because we we learn not to right? Right. Because we we learn not to right? Right. Because we we learn not to be boastful, right? And I remember like be boastful, right? And I remember like be boastful, right? And I remember like I would come home and tell my family I would come home and tell my family I would come home and tell my family about some some great thing that about some some great thing that about some some great thing that happened, maybe an award I got and my happened, maybe an award I got and my happened, maybe an award I got and my kids would say, "Oh, mom, you're kids would say, "Oh, mom, you're kids would say, "Oh, mom, you're boasting." boasting." boasting." >> And I'm like, "If I can't share this >> And I'm like, "If I can't share this >> And I'm like, "If I can't share this with my family, like who can I share the with my family, like who can I share the with my family, like who can I share the [ __ ] is going on?" [ __ ] is going on?" [ __ ] is going on?" >> And so we've sort of trained like not to >> And so we've sort of trained like not to >> And so we've sort of trained like not to boast and yet of course like we want to boast and yet of course like we want to boast and yet of course like we want to celebrate those things, right? So, and celebrate those things, right? So, and celebrate those things, right? So, and so, um, yeah, and so we we don't have as so, um, yeah, and so we we don't have as so, um, yeah, and so we we don't have as much practice both sharing and I guess much practice both sharing and I guess much practice both sharing and I guess reacting reacting reacting >> to to those wins. >> to to those wins. >> to to those wins. >> What about in the relationship if you're >> What about in the relationship if you're >> What about in the relationship if you're doing everything right and the other doing everything right and the other doing everything right and the other person just doesn't show it in return? person just doesn't show it in return? person just doesn't show it in return? >> Great question. And I get that asked >> Great question. And I get that asked >> Great question. And I get that asked that question a lot where let's say I'm that question a lot where let's say I'm that question a lot where let's say I'm doing all the right things. So, I'm I'm doing all the right things. So, I'm I'm doing all the right things. So, I'm I'm sharing, I'm listening, I'm curious, I'm sharing, I'm listening, I'm curious, I'm sharing, I'm listening, I'm curious, I'm seeing you with a multip multiplicity seeing you with a multip multiplicity seeing you with a multip multiplicity lens. I'm I'm ac with I'm I'm listening lens. I'm I'm ac with I'm I'm listening lens. I'm I'm ac with I'm I'm listening with warmth and acceptance and the other with warmth and acceptance and the other with warmth and acceptance and the other person just does not respond. They don't person just does not respond. They don't person just does not respond. They don't return. They don't reciprocate. They're return. They don't reciprocate. They're return. They don't reciprocate. They're not curious about you. They're not not curious about you. They're not not curious about you. They're not listening. They're not sharing. listening. They're not sharing. listening. They're not sharing. >> What do you do? So, >> What do you do? So, >> What do you do? So, >> I'm not a therapist. I mean, therapists >> I'm not a therapist. I mean, therapists >> I'm not a therapist. I mean, therapists are very like, you know, they'll never are very like, you know, they'll never are very like, you know, they'll never sort of say exactly directly what they sort of say exactly directly what they sort of say exactly directly what they really think. I think right bluntly and really think. I think right bluntly and really think. I think right bluntly and I'll just say bluntly, I'll just say bluntly, I'll just say bluntly, >> maybe you need to walk away. Maybe >> maybe you need to walk away. Maybe >> maybe you need to walk away. Maybe you've made a poor choice. If it's a you've made a poor choice. If it's a you've made a poor choice. If it's a family member, yeah, probably you can family member, yeah, probably you can family member, yeah, probably you can walk away, but just accept that you're walk away, but just accept that you're walk away, but just accept that you're not going to feel as loved as you want not going to feel as loved as you want not going to feel as loved as you want to feel by this person. Um, I mean, of to feel by this person. Um, I mean, of to feel by this person. Um, I mean, of obviously keep trying, but if you've obviously keep trying, but if you've obviously keep trying, but if you've kept trying and and it's not working, kept trying and and it's not working, kept trying and and it's not working, >> well, so much of it, I think the >> well, so much of it, I think the >> well, so much of it, I think the discontent that people feel in discontent that people feel in discontent that people feel in situations like this is situations like this is situations like this is I I feel an incompatibility here and I'm I I feel an incompatibility here and I'm I I feel an incompatibility here and I'm continuing to push up against it. And continuing to push up against it. And continuing to push up against it. And you know how when you see a bridge and a you know how when you see a bridge and a you know how when you see a bridge and a bridge twists like this, it's because bridge twists like this, it's because bridge twists like this, it's because one side is going in one direction and one side is going in one direction and one side is going in one direction and another isn't moving with it. If you another isn't moving with it. If you another isn't moving with it. If you just did that, it's just a bridge that's just did that, it's just a bridge that's just did that, it's just a bridge that's rotating, right? But the tension occurs rotating, right? But the tension occurs rotating, right? But the tension occurs in the flexing like this. And I wonder in the flexing like this. And I wonder in the flexing like this. And I wonder how many people if you were to just say, how many people if you were to just say, how many people if you were to just say, "Hey, dude, this just isn't working." "Hey, dude, this just isn't working." "Hey, dude, this just isn't working." And you're continuing to try and put And you're continuing to try and put And you're continuing to try and put this square peg into a round hole is this square peg into a round hole is this square peg into a round hole is where the discomfort comes from. And if where the discomfort comes from. And if where the discomfort comes from. And if it's you got an uncle that you just it's you got an uncle that you just it's you got an uncle that you just cannot resonate with or a younger cannot resonate with or a younger cannot resonate with or a younger brother who just you and him are like brother who just you and him are like brother who just you and him are like different species. So, okay, guess what? different species. So, okay, guess what? different species. So, okay, guess what? Thanksgiving and Christmas, you're going Thanksgiving and Christmas, you're going Thanksgiving and Christmas, you're going to see each other. You wish them happy to see each other. You wish them happy to see each other. You wish them happy birthday. You keep on top of it. But the birthday. You keep on top of it. But the birthday. You keep on top of it. But the tension and the pain is coming from you tension and the pain is coming from you tension and the pain is coming from you wanting a thing which is not accessible. wanting a thing which is not accessible. wanting a thing which is not accessible. And I don't think it's your job in life And I don't think it's your job in life And I don't think it's your job in life to drown trying to keep people afloat to drown trying to keep people afloat to drown trying to keep people afloat who refuse to swim. who refuse to swim. who refuse to swim. >> Exactly. Although you know you you try >> Exactly. Although you know you you try >> Exactly. Although you know you you try curiosity by the way with the brother or curiosity by the way with the brother or curiosity by the way with the brother or the uncle, right? like why why do you the uncle, right? like why why do you the uncle, right? like why why do you believe that thing that you know you believe that thing that you know you believe that thing that you know you think it's true think it's true think it's true >> shut up Sonia I don't I don't need to >> shut up Sonia I don't I don't need to >> shut up Sonia I don't I don't need to hear that hear that hear that >> right well if that's right if that if >> right well if that's right if that if >> right well if that's right if that if that's the response consistently and I I that's the response consistently and I I that's the response consistently and I I completely agree with you but is there's completely agree with you but is there's completely agree with you but is there's this tension because I hear all this this tension because I hear all this this tension because I hear all this advice like you know people in our advice like you know people in our advice like you know people in our society in our individualistic society society in our individualistic society society in our individualistic society they they kind of break up too often you they they kind of break up too often you they they kind of break up too often you know they kind of end relationships too know they kind of end relationships too know they kind of end relationships too often like certainly on dating apps or often like certainly on dating apps or often like certainly on dating apps or you know you're like oh this person you know you're like oh this person you know you're like oh this person isn't working for me I'm just going to isn't working for me I'm just going to isn't working for me I'm just going to go to the next person go to the next person go to the next person >> so there's sort of this advice you hear >> so there's sort of this advice you hear >> so there's sort of this advice you hear that maybe we don't work hard enough um that maybe we don't work hard enough um that maybe we don't work hard enough um to sort of fix our differences. And then to sort of fix our differences. And then to sort of fix our differences. And then there's all those people and I'm there's all those people and I'm there's all those people and I'm thinking romantic relationships and thinking romantic relationships and thinking romantic relationships and they're together forever and they're they're together forever and they're they're together forever and they're just clearly not right for each other just clearly not right for each other just clearly not right for each other and they're clearly unhappy and they're clearly unhappy and they're clearly unhappy >> and I feel I really feel for them, >> and I feel I really feel for them, >> and I feel I really feel for them, right? Like life is too short. Um so I right? Like life is too short. Um so I right? Like life is too short. Um so I don't know. I don't know what's but I don't know. I don't know what's but I don't know. I don't know what's but I guess both can be true at the same time. guess both can be true at the same time. guess both can be true at the same time. >> Well, it is absolutely the both can be >> Well, it is absolutely the both can be >> Well, it is absolutely the both can be true. I've got this idea called advice true. I've got this idea called advice true. I've got this idea called advice hyperresponders. So, uh advice doesn't hyperresponders. So, uh advice doesn't hyperresponders. So, uh advice doesn't distribute evenly. It distributes more distribute evenly. It distributes more distribute evenly. It distributes more like alcohol than medicine. Uh the like alcohol than medicine. Uh the like alcohol than medicine. Uh the people who could really benefit from people who could really benefit from people who could really benefit from loosening up and having a drink remain loosening up and having a drink remain loosening up and having a drink remain abstinent while the people that are abstinent while the people that are abstinent while the people that are already drinking too much. They take it already drinking too much. They take it already drinking too much. They take it on board. So for instance, the person on board. So for instance, the person on board. So for instance, the person who has the fear, I am emotionally who has the fear, I am emotionally who has the fear, I am emotionally inadequate will absorb the message you inadequate will absorb the message you inadequate will absorb the message you should open up about your emotions should open up about your emotions should open up about your emotions wholesale because it confirms their fear wholesale because it confirms their fear wholesale because it confirms their fear that they already weren't good at doing that they already weren't good at doing that they already weren't good at doing emotions and that will cause them not to emotions and that will cause them not to emotions and that will cause them not to rectify the uh imbalance but to rectify the uh imbalance but to rectify the uh imbalance but to overexaggerate something that already overexaggerate something that already overexaggerate something that already exists. Um, another one of the person exists. Um, another one of the person exists. Um, another one of the person who permanently feels like they're not who permanently feels like they're not who permanently feels like they're not working hard enough will take on the working hard enough will take on the working hard enough will take on the David Gogggins Jocker Willink message of David Gogggins Jocker Willink message of David Gogggins Jocker Willink message of just get up at 4:30 a.m. You've got to just get up at 4:30 a.m. You've got to just get up at 4:30 a.m. You've got to crush it, dude. As opposed to going, I crush it, dude. As opposed to going, I crush it, dude. As opposed to going, I actually need to listen to the advice actually need to listen to the advice actually need to listen to the advice that tells people to chill out a little that tells people to chill out a little that tells people to chill out a little bit more. Meanwhile, the place I first bit more. Meanwhile, the place I first bit more. Meanwhile, the place I first saw this was after me too. So, me too saw this was after me too. So, me too saw this was after me too. So, me too told guys, don't be pushy with women. told guys, don't be pushy with women. told guys, don't be pushy with women. And the dudes that were blowing through And the dudes that were blowing through And the dudes that were blowing through boundaries didn't pay any attention to boundaries didn't pay any attention to boundaries didn't pay any attention to it. Meanwhile, nervous guys that could it. Meanwhile, nervous guys that could it. Meanwhile, nervous guys that could do with a little bit more of a a do with a little bit more of a a do with a little bit more of a a They decide. They were like, "I knew I They decide. They were like, "I knew I They decide. They were like, "I knew I was too much already. I already thought was too much already. I already thought was too much already. I already thought I had this." I had this." I had this." >> And this is how >> And this is how >> And this is how >> advice lands in groups that already are >> advice lands in groups that already are >> advice lands in groups that already are moving in that direction. It confirms. moving in that direction. It confirms. moving in that direction. It confirms. What are What are What are >> you calling this? >> you calling this? >> you calling this? >> Advice hyper respponders. >> Advice hyper respponders. >> Advice hyper respponders. >> So, you throw advice down and the people >> So, you throw advice down and the people >> So, you throw advice down and the people who already do it pick it up first. Uh, who already do it pick it up first. Uh, who already do it pick it up first. Uh, it often doesn't correct over it doesn't it often doesn't correct over it doesn't it often doesn't correct over it doesn't correct imbalances. It just exaggerates correct imbalances. It just exaggerates correct imbalances. It just exaggerates predispositions. And, um, I think it's predispositions. And, um, I think it's predispositions. And, um, I think it's true and that's how you end up in true and that's how you end up in true and that's how you end up in situations like this. How is it the case situations like this. How is it the case situations like this. How is it the case that people are both cycling through that people are both cycling through that people are both cycling through relationships too quickly and staying in relationships too quickly and staying in relationships too quickly and staying in ones that they shouldn't for too long? ones that they shouldn't for too long? ones that they shouldn't for too long? Well, it's because Well, it's because Well, it's because >> different kinds of people. >> different kinds of people. >> different kinds of people. >> Bingo. Bingo. And then when you give a >> Bingo. Bingo. And then when you give a >> Bingo. Bingo. And then when you give a piece of advice, this is the thing piece of advice, this is the thing piece of advice, this is the thing that's like interesting and penicious that's like interesting and penicious that's like interesting and penicious about it is that about it is that about it is that >> typically one side of the fence sounds >> typically one side of the fence sounds >> typically one side of the fence sounds like a more pro-social and noble piece like a more pro-social and noble piece like a more pro-social and noble piece of advice. So for instance, the idea of advice. So for instance, the idea of advice. So for instance, the idea work harder and ignore your emotions work harder and ignore your emotions work harder and ignore your emotions sounds upward aiming. It is believing in sounds upward aiming. It is believing in sounds upward aiming. It is believing in the little guy. It's grassroots. It's the little guy. It's grassroots. It's the little guy. It's grassroots. It's spitting sawdust. It's zero to hero. spitting sawdust. It's zero to hero. spitting sawdust. It's zero to hero. That tends to be more popular to talk That tends to be more popular to talk That tends to be more popular to talk about online. Even if it increases the about online. Even if it increases the about online. Even if it increases the disposition of the type A person that disposition of the type A person that disposition of the type A person that can never switch off. The idea of don't can never switch off. The idea of don't can never switch off. The idea of don't let good relationships fall away. you let good relationships fall away. you let good relationships fall away. you should work through them and try hard should work through them and try hard should work through them and try hard sounds pro-social in a world of atomized sounds pro-social in a world of atomized sounds pro-social in a world of atomized transactional swipe dating, but it transactional swipe dating, but it transactional swipe dating, but it worsens the situation for the people who worsens the situation for the people who worsens the situation for the people who already burden themselves way too much already burden themselves way too much already burden themselves way too much with psychological strength that makes with psychological strength that makes with psychological strength that makes them powerful in the boardroom but them powerful in the boardroom but them powerful in the boardroom but silent at the kitchen dinner table. silent at the kitchen dinner table. silent at the kitchen dinner table. >> Okay, but let's talk about I think one >> Okay, but let's talk about I think one >> Okay, but let's talk about I think one concept that can kind of unite what concept that can kind of unite what concept that can kind of unite what you're talking about is is the idea of you're talking about is is the idea of you're talking about is is the idea of is the idea of dosage, right? So, is the idea of dosage, right? So, is the idea of dosage, right? So, Aristotle's golden mean, right? So Aristotle's golden mean, right? So Aristotle's golden mean, right? So there's a there's an optimal dosage for there's a there's an optimal dosage for there's a there's an optimal dosage for everything like uh there's somewhere in everything like uh there's somewhere in everything like uh there's somewhere in the middle there's an optimal weight the middle there's an optimal weight the middle there's an optimal weight like amount of time you should stay like amount of time you should stay like amount of time you should stay together before you break up etc etc and together before you break up etc etc and together before you break up etc etc and I'm a huge believer in dosage I think it I'm a huge believer in dosage I think it I'm a huge believer in dosage I think it applies to almost everything right and applies to almost everything right and applies to almost everything right and so in terms of happiness research right so in terms of happiness research right so in terms of happiness research right can you do too much acts of kindness can you do too much acts of kindness can you do too much acts of kindness absolutely right you can be too kind to absolutely right you can be too kind to absolutely right you can be too kind to others you can neglect yourself you can others you can neglect yourself you can others you can neglect yourself you can do too little almost everything uh do too little almost everything uh do too little almost everything uh should be done in moderation including should be done in moderation including should be done in moderation including moderation of course Um, so that's uh moderation of course Um, so that's uh moderation of course Um, so that's uh that's how I think about things is sort that's how I think about things is sort that's how I think about things is sort of in the optimal dosage. But sometimes of in the optimal dosage. But sometimes of in the optimal dosage. But sometimes you're talking about things that you're talking about things that you're talking about things that sometimes are in the same continuum, sometimes are in the same continuum, sometimes are in the same continuum, right? It has to be in the same right? It has to be in the same right? It has to be in the same continuum, the same spectrum to to continuum, the same spectrum to to continuum, the same spectrum to to figure out what the optimum dosages. figure out what the optimum dosages. figure out what the optimum dosages. >> Well, ideally people people are going to >> Well, ideally people people are going to >> Well, ideally people people are going to take some of the advice from the take some of the advice from the take some of the advice from the opposite side of the spectrum. opposite side of the spectrum. opposite side of the spectrum. And unfortunately, people don't usually And unfortunately, people don't usually And unfortunately, people don't usually want to hear that. So yeah, it's it's an want to hear that. So yeah, it's it's an want to hear that. So yeah, it's it's an interesting one. Okay. So interesting one. Okay. So interesting one. Okay. So >> tactically, what are the most powerful >> tactically, what are the most powerful >> tactically, what are the most powerful habits for implementing this? habits for implementing this? habits for implementing this? >> The more I think about feeling loved and >> The more I think about feeling loved and >> The more I think about feeling loved and and these mindsets, the more I think and these mindsets, the more I think and these mindsets, the more I think they apply to almost everything. You they apply to almost everything. You they apply to almost everything. You know, like when you study something, you know, like when you study something, you know, like when you study something, you see it everywhere. Um, see it everywhere. Um, see it everywhere. Um, >> but seriously, like it applies to uh >> but seriously, like it applies to uh >> but seriously, like it applies to uh reducing polarization in our society, reducing polarization in our society, reducing polarization in our society, right? When you're curious and really right? When you're curious and really right? When you're curious and really listening to people who are on the other listening to people who are on the other listening to people who are on the other side of the political spectrum, it side of the political spectrum, it side of the political spectrum, it actually see research has shown it's actually see research has shown it's actually see research has shown it's reduced it reduces prejudice. It reduces reduced it reduces prejudice. It reduces reduced it reduces prejudice. It reduces differences. And so I think out of all differences. And so I think out of all differences. And so I think out of all everything I've talked about, I think everything I've talked about, I think everything I've talked about, I think curiosity and listening are probably the curiosity and listening are probably the curiosity and listening are probably the two habits that can really change your two habits that can really change your two habits that can really change your life. Like if we all became better life. Like if we all became better life. Like if we all became better listeners, more curious. Research shows listeners, more curious. Research shows listeners, more curious. Research shows that if you're a leader or a manager or that if you're a leader or a manager or that if you're a leader or a manager or a supervisor and if you're curious and a supervisor and if you're curious and a supervisor and if you're curious and really listening to your employees or really listening to your employees or really listening to your employees or your followers, they're going to be more your followers, they're going to be more your followers, they're going to be more productive. They're going to be more productive. They're going to be more productive. They're going to be more engaged. They're going to be less likely engaged. They're going to be less likely engaged. They're going to be less likely to quit. to quit. to quit. >> Pretty amazing, right? Uh it's not that >> Pretty amazing, right? Uh it's not that >> Pretty amazing, right? Uh it's not that hard to implement. Um, and then sharing, hard to implement. Um, and then sharing, hard to implement. Um, and then sharing, sharing too. There's a study that came sharing too. There's a study that came sharing too. There's a study that came out maybe a year ago that had people who out maybe a year ago that had people who out maybe a year ago that had people who are literally like wearing different are literally like wearing different are literally like wearing different hats on the political spectrum, no pun hats on the political spectrum, no pun hats on the political spectrum, no pun intended. Um, sharing. And so I might intended. Um, sharing. And so I might intended. Um, sharing. And so I might share about like I'm struggling with my share about like I'm struggling with my share about like I'm struggling with my son and the guy in the other hat is son and the guy in the other hat is son and the guy in the other hat is sharing, oh, you know, I'm also sharing, oh, you know, I'm also sharing, oh, you know, I'm also struggling with my son. struggling with my son. struggling with my son. >> That reduced prejudice and reduced >> That reduced prejudice and reduced >> That reduced prejudice and reduced polarization. Just sharing more of your polarization. Just sharing more of your polarization. Just sharing more of your humanity with someone who's really humanity with someone who's really humanity with someone who's really different from you. different from you. different from you. >> Um, so but yeah, but I will I will I >> Um, so but yeah, but I will I will I >> Um, so but yeah, but I will I will I would stick with those three. but would stick with those three. but would stick with those three. but especially curiosity and listening. especially curiosity and listening. especially curiosity and listening. >> Okay. What's something if you were to >> Okay. What's something if you were to >> Okay. What's something if you were to say this technique or this habit, this say this technique or this habit, this say this technique or this habit, this one thing that you can do tomorrow one thing that you can do tomorrow one thing that you can do tomorrow >> that would improve your ability to feel >> that would improve your ability to feel >> that would improve your ability to feel love? What would it be? love? What would it be? love? What would it be? >> Well, first of all, have a conversation >> Well, first of all, have a conversation >> Well, first of all, have a conversation with the person that you want to feel with the person that you want to feel with the person that you want to feel loved by. Um, and actually, this is my loved by. Um, and actually, this is my loved by. Um, and actually, this is my number one kind of happiness tip. If you number one kind of happiness tip. If you number one kind of happiness tip. If you want to be happier tomorrow, have a a want to be happier tomorrow, have a a want to be happier tomorrow, have a a 15-inute conversation with someone. Uh 15-inute conversation with someone. Uh 15-inute conversation with someone. Uh at least 15 minutes. And then when at least 15 minutes. And then when at least 15 minutes. And then when you're having the conversation, share, you're having the conversation, share, you're having the conversation, share, listen, show curiosity, listen with listen, show curiosity, listen with listen, show curiosity, listen with acceptance and warmth. When you think acceptance and warmth. When you think acceptance and warmth. When you think about relationships, they're really a about relationships, they're really a about relationships, they're really a series of conversations. series of conversations. series of conversations. Even when you're not talking, right? Even when you're not talking, right? Even when you're not talking, right? You're communicating. That's how I think You're communicating. That's how I think You're communicating. That's how I think about relationships. They're a series of about relationships. They're a series of about relationships. They're a series of conversations. And so when you think conversations. And so when you think conversations. And so when you think about I want to feel more loved, it about I want to feel more loved, it about I want to feel more loved, it seems very overwhelming, like what do I seems very overwhelming, like what do I seems very overwhelming, like what do I do? I need to make myself more lovable. do? I need to make myself more lovable. do? I need to make myself more lovable. I need to change your mind and and get I need to change your mind and and get I need to change your mind and and get you to love me more. you to love me more. you to love me more. >> But really, all you have to do is change >> But really, all you have to do is change >> But really, all you have to do is change the next conversation or change the next the next conversation or change the next the next conversation or change the next series of conversations. series of conversations. series of conversations. >> So, that would be my number one tip is >> So, that would be my number one tip is >> So, that would be my number one tip is show up differently in your next show up differently in your next show up differently in your next conversation with that person conversation with that person conversation with that person >> by sharing more, listening more, showing >> by sharing more, listening more, showing >> by sharing more, listening more, showing curiosity with warmth and acceptance. curiosity with warmth and acceptance. curiosity with warmth and acceptance. >> So, you're saying that life is just one >> So, you're saying that life is just one >> So, you're saying that life is just one big podcast? That's your main that's the big podcast? That's your main that's the big podcast? That's your main that's the main take. main take. main take. >> Yes, absolutely. But also, I'm kind of >> Yes, absolutely. But also, I'm kind of >> Yes, absolutely. But also, I'm kind of biased cuz I'm a talker. So my my oldest biased cuz I'm a talker. So my my oldest biased cuz I'm a talker. So my my oldest daughter once said to me, "Mom, you talk daughter once said to me, "Mom, you talk daughter once said to me, "Mom, you talk so much I can't think." So I do like to so much I can't think." So I do like to so much I can't think." So I do like to talk, but but and also in our culture, talk, but but and also in our culture, talk, but but and also in our culture, we're where actually there's some we're where actually there's some we're where actually there's some research on this. You know, research on this. You know, research on this. You know, individualist cultures are more talking individualist cultures are more talking individualist cultures are more talking cultures. Uh collectivist cultures like cultures. Uh collectivist cultures like cultures. Uh collectivist cultures like Asian cultures are more listening Asian cultures are more listening Asian cultures are more listening cultures. cultures. cultures. >> Um but you know, we can adapt these >> Um but you know, we can adapt these >> Um but you know, we can adapt these mindsets. You know, you don't have to mindsets. You know, you don't have to mindsets. You know, you don't have to talk a mile a minute. You know, it's talk a mile a minute. You know, it's talk a mile a minute. You know, it's just it's just communication that just it's just communication that just it's just communication that matters. matters. matters. >> Yeah. across all of the studies that >> Yeah. across all of the studies that >> Yeah. across all of the studies that you've been a part of, what's your you've been a part of, what's your you've been a part of, what's your favorite one? Like what's the what's the favorite one? Like what's the what's the favorite one? Like what's the what's the most fun or interesting or novel study most fun or interesting or novel study most fun or interesting or novel study that you've done? that you've done? that you've done? >> I think my favorite one is we asked >> I think my favorite one is we asked >> I think my favorite one is we asked people to act more extroverted for a people to act more extroverted for a people to act more extroverted for a week. So we said to both introverts and week. So we said to both introverts and week. So we said to both introverts and extroverts, we said for the next week extroverts, we said for the next week extroverts, we said for the next week act more extroverted. We didn't actually act more extroverted. We didn't actually act more extroverted. We didn't actually use the word extroverted because it has use the word extroverted because it has use the word extroverted because it has connotations in our culture. I think we connotations in our culture. I think we connotations in our culture. I think we said you know sociable, energetic, uh said you know sociable, energetic, uh said you know sociable, energetic, uh talkative. talkative. talkative. And then for the week after we asked And then for the week after we asked And then for the week after we asked people to act more introverted, again people to act more introverted, again people to act more introverted, again using different words like deliberate using different words like deliberate using different words like deliberate and quiet um and vice versa. and quiet um and vice versa. and quiet um and vice versa. >> And we were shocked at what we found. So >> And we were shocked at what we found. So >> And we were shocked at what we found. So we found the biggest effects we'd ever we found the biggest effects we'd ever we found the biggest effects we'd ever found in any of our interventions. found in any of our interventions. found in any of our interventions. People in the week that people acted People in the week that people acted People in the week that people acted more extroverted, they were so much more extroverted, they were so much more extroverted, they were so much happier and sort of everything improved happier and sort of everything improved happier and sort of everything improved >> in during the introversion week. >> in during the introversion week. >> in during the introversion week. Surprisingly, sometimes people actually Surprisingly, sometimes people actually Surprisingly, sometimes people actually got less happy or kind of no change. And got less happy or kind of no change. And got less happy or kind of no change. And the second surprise was that this effect the second surprise was that this effect the second surprise was that this effect was the same for introverts and was the same for introverts and was the same for introverts and extroverts. extroverts. extroverts. >> So even people who were already >> So even people who were already >> So even people who were already extroverted increasing their extroverted increasing their extroverted increasing their extroversion improved their happiness. extroversion improved their happiness. extroversion improved their happiness. >> But well it's interesting that you you >> But well it's interesting that you you >> But well it's interesting that you you thought that was the surprising part. No thought that was the surprising part. No thought that was the surprising part. No no this the introversion is the no this the introversion is the no this the introversion is the surprising part I think to me that the surprising part I think to me that the surprising part I think to me that the introverts you know Susan Kane wrote introverts you know Susan Kane wrote introverts you know Susan Kane wrote this great book right called Quiet. Love this great book right called Quiet. Love this great book right called Quiet. Love the book and I'm a big fan of the book and I'm a big fan of the book and I'm a big fan of introversion. I think there's a lot of introversion. I think there's a lot of introversion. I think there's a lot of benefits to being introverted, but she benefits to being introverted, but she benefits to being introverted, but she she writes that, you know, introverts she writes that, you know, introverts she writes that, you know, introverts get exhausted by trying to act social. get exhausted by trying to act social. get exhausted by trying to act social. >> I don't I actually don't quite believe >> I don't I actually don't quite believe >> I don't I actually don't quite believe it. Like the evidence is now showing it. Like the evidence is now showing it. Like the evidence is now showing that it's actually the extroverts that that it's actually the extroverts that that it's actually the extroverts that get exhausted by social behavior. It get exhausted by social behavior. It get exhausted by social behavior. It makes sense cuz they're social much more makes sense cuz they're social much more makes sense cuz they're social much more of the time. of the time. of the time. >> Um, yeah. So, so the introverts also got >> Um, yeah. So, so the introverts also got >> Um, yeah. So, so the introverts also got happier acting extroverted. happier acting extroverted. happier acting extroverted. >> Most people have no idea where their >> Most people have no idea where their >> Most people have no idea where their testosterone levels sit. But what if I testosterone levels sit. But what if I testosterone levels sit. But what if I told you there was a solution? something told you there was a solution? something told you there was a solution? something that identifies low tea faster than a that identifies low tea faster than a that identifies low tea faster than a high school bully. And it won't cost you high school bully. And it won't cost you high school bully. And it won't cost you all your lunch money. 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What do you make of the What do you make of the What do you make of the where you get your energy from on your where you get your energy from on your where you get your energy from on your own versus with other people is the best own versus with other people is the best own versus with other people is the best definition of introversion versus definition of introversion versus definition of introversion versus extroversions. Does this still hold true extroversions. Does this still hold true extroversions. Does this still hold true or has this been replication? or has this been replication? or has this been replication? >> So, I love the definition again that >> So, I love the definition again that >> So, I love the definition again that Susan Kane made popular. It's a sexy Susan Kane made popular. It's a sexy Susan Kane made popular. It's a sexy definition, but it if it's inaccurate, definition, but it if it's inaccurate, definition, but it if it's inaccurate, then we need new one. then we need new one. then we need new one. >> I believe that the evidence is not >> I believe that the evidence is not >> I believe that the evidence is not really holding up. And actually Nick really holding up. And actually Nick really holding up. And actually Nick Epley, who wrote a book called a little Epley, who wrote a book called a little Epley, who wrote a book called a little more social, great book, um talks about more social, great book, um talks about more social, great book, um talks about this. I think that the evidence is not this. I think that the evidence is not this. I think that the evidence is not quite there. Um so I don't know, maybe quite there. Um so I don't know, maybe quite there. Um so I don't know, maybe again absence of evidence is an evidence again absence of evidence is an evidence again absence of evidence is an evidence of absence. Um but the studies I think of absence. Um but the studies I think of absence. Um but the studies I think there's only with one exception studies there's only with one exception studies there's only with one exception studies are showing that introverts that are are showing that introverts that are are showing that introverts that are asked to act more social do not feel asked to act more social do not feel asked to act more social do not feel depleted or exhausted. Um, but again, depleted or exhausted. Um, but again, depleted or exhausted. Um, but again, maybe we need more research. maybe we need more research. maybe we need more research. >> That's interesting. It wouldn't surprise >> That's interesting. It wouldn't surprise >> That's interesting. It wouldn't surprise me. I think a lot of the time what me. I think a lot of the time what me. I think a lot of the time what introverts are doing is introverts are doing is introverts are doing is finding a home base or fi finding a finding a home base or fi finding a finding a home base or fi finding a situation that feels comfortable and situation that feels comfortable and situation that feels comfortable and familiar to them. But you can get familiar to them. But you can get familiar to them. But you can get drained out of your social muscle an drained out of your social muscle an drained out of your social muscle an awful lot. Like if you don't lose it, awful lot. Like if you don't lose it, awful lot. Like if you don't lose it, use it, you lose it. And if you don't use it, you lose it. And if you don't use it, you lose it. And if you don't get into the rhythm of seeing for for get into the rhythm of seeing for for get into the rhythm of seeing for for instance we have every Friday and this instance we have every Friday and this instance we have every Friday and this is one of the best this one of the be is one of the best this one of the be is one of the best this one of the be two best things that three best things two best things that three best things two best things that three best things actually that uh from a habit actually that uh from a habit actually that uh from a habit perspective that I've done. First one is perspective that I've done. First one is perspective that I've done. First one is sleeping with my phone outside of my sleeping with my phone outside of my sleeping with my phone outside of my bedroom. Second one is when I think bedroom. Second one is when I think bedroom. Second one is when I think about a friend that I haven't spoken to about a friend that I haven't spoken to about a friend that I haven't spoken to in a while. I just text them immediately in a while. I just text them immediately in a while. I just text them immediately and I'm like hey man just thinking of and I'm like hey man just thinking of and I'm like hey man just thinking of you. Hope everything's good or whatever. you. Hope everything's good or whatever. you. Hope everything's good or whatever. Uh but the third one we've got a Uh but the third one we've got a Uh but the third one we've got a standing dinner reservation at 6 p.m. standing dinner reservation at 6 p.m. standing dinner reservation at 6 p.m. every Friday. It's just an open invite every Friday. It's just an open invite every Friday. It's just an open invite for between six and eight people. And no for between six and eight people. And no for between six and eight people. And no matter how good or bad your week's been, matter how good or bad your week's been, matter how good or bad your week's been, you always turn up. And if you're in you always turn up. And if you're in you always turn up. And if you're in town, you're there. Sometimes people town, you're there. Sometimes people town, you're there. Sometimes people bring new friends. Sometimes people, bring new friends. Sometimes people, bring new friends. Sometimes people, it's just you and it's been me and one it's just you and it's been me and one it's just you and it's been me and one other guy. And um other guy. And um other guy. And um the fact the fact that you've got that, the fact the fact that you've got that, the fact the fact that you've got that, it means some people have got more it means some people have got more it means some people have got more introverted days and more extroverted introverted days and more extroverted introverted days and more extroverted days. On my most introverted day, I'm days. On my most introverted day, I'm days. On my most introverted day, I'm still at dinner and I leave and I'm still at dinner and I leave and I'm still at dinner and I leave and I'm like, "That was fine. That was worth it. like, "That was fine. That was worth it. like, "That was fine. That was worth it. >> I love it. I love it. I love it. Um, >> I love it. I love it. I love it. Um, >> I love it. I love it. I love it. Um, very important point that you just very important point that you just very important point that you just raised, right? So, so when in our in raised, right? So, so when in our in raised, right? So, so when in our in these studies when we ask in when we ask these studies when we ask in when we ask these studies when we ask in when we ask introverts to be extroverted, we don't introverts to be extroverted, we don't introverts to be extroverted, we don't ask them to go to a party and be the ask them to go to a party and be the ask them to go to a party and be the life of the party. They can choose how life of the party. They can choose how life of the party. They can choose how to be extroverted, right? So, an to be extroverted, right? So, an to be extroverted, right? So, an introvert is going to do different introvert is going to do different introvert is going to do different things. So, they might call up a friend, things. So, they might call up a friend, things. So, they might call up a friend, they might chat a little bit more during they might chat a little bit more during they might chat a little bit more during lunch. You know, I was super shy when I lunch. You know, I was super shy when I lunch. You know, I was super shy when I was young and when I was when I was in was young and when I was when I was in was young and when I was when I was in college. college. college. >> I can't imagine that. >> I can't imagine that. >> I can't imagine that. >> I and I really was. I my parents told me >> I and I really was. I my parents told me >> I and I really was. I my parents told me that before age 10 I did not speak to that before age 10 I did not speak to that before age 10 I did not speak to other adults other than teachers and and other adults other than teachers and and other adults other than teachers and and family members and then I really kind of family members and then I really kind of family members and then I really kind of pushed through it but okay here's one pushed through it but okay here's one pushed through it but okay here's one one way I did it in college you know we one way I did it in college you know we one way I did it in college you know we had sections and I forced myself to say had sections and I forced myself to say had sections and I forced myself to say one thing in each section and it was one thing in each section and it was one thing in each section and it was terrifying like I it was really really terrifying like I it was really really terrifying like I it was really really hard but then the more you do it you hard but then the more you do it you hard but then the more you do it you know so anyway that's the kind of thing know so anyway that's the kind of thing know so anyway that's the kind of thing that introvert might say like at lunch that introvert might say like at lunch that introvert might say like at lunch I'm going to I'm going to try to say one I'm going to I'm going to try to say one I'm going to I'm going to try to say one more thing more thing more thing >> uh but I I love your three habits. I'm >> uh but I I love your three habits. I'm >> uh but I I love your three habits. I'm going to add one more to it that one of going to add one more to it that one of going to add one more to it that one of my friends introduced me is when you my friends introduced me is when you my friends introduced me is when you meet someone or you're talking to meet someone or you're talking to meet someone or you're talking to someone, they say, "Oh, let's get someone, they say, "Oh, let's get someone, they say, "Oh, let's get together." You know, this happens all together." You know, this happens all together." You know, this happens all the time. And what happens is you don't the time. And what happens is you don't the time. And what happens is you don't get together. You know, you start your get together. You know, you start your get together. You know, you start your text and then you know, you get busy and text and then you know, you get busy and text and then you know, you get busy and then you're like, "Oh, how about next then you're like, "Oh, how about next then you're like, "Oh, how about next week?" And that doesn't work out. He week?" And that doesn't work out. He week?" And that doesn't work out. He said, "You do not leave that interaction said, "You do not leave that interaction said, "You do not leave that interaction without making a firm plan to get without making a firm plan to get without making a firm plan to get together." You know, a specific time and together." You know, a specific time and together." You know, a specific time and place and date. And that that really place and date. And that that really place and date. And that that really works. I heard a really Machavevelian works. I heard a really Machavevelian works. I heard a really Machavevelian way to work out if someone actually way to work out if someone actually way to work out if someone actually wants to hang out with you. Uh if you wants to hang out with you. Uh if you wants to hang out with you. Uh if you propose a date and they cancel and you propose a date and they cancel and you propose a date and they cancel and you say, "Tell me when you want to say, "Tell me when you want to say, "Tell me when you want to reschedule for and they don't reschedule for and they don't reschedule for and they don't reschedule." It was basically reverse reschedule." It was basically reverse reschedule." It was basically reverse engineering whether or not this person engineering whether or not this person engineering whether or not this person is genuinely busy or just doesn't like is genuinely busy or just doesn't like is genuinely busy or just doesn't like you. Uh I don't know whether I think you. Uh I don't know whether I think you. Uh I don't know whether I think you'd probably need you reading into you'd probably need you reading into you'd probably need you reading into that a little bit much. People are just that a little bit much. People are just that a little bit much. People are just busy. But uh I thought I thought that busy. But uh I thought I thought that busy. But uh I thought I thought that was an interesting was an interesting was an interesting >> I like that. Tell me when you want to >> I like that. Tell me when you want to >> I like that. Tell me when you want to reschedule for. reschedule for. reschedule for. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Just tell me when. Like hey, >> Yeah. Just tell me when. Like hey, >> Yeah. Just tell me when. Like hey, especially if you reced, dude. Like it's especially if you reced, dude. Like it's especially if you reced, dude. Like it's on you. Okay. You [ __ ] it. I was going on you. Okay. You [ __ ] it. I was going on you. Okay. You [ __ ] it. I was going to go. to go. to go. >> Um, >> Um, >> Um, >> you know, there's a New Yorker cartoon >> you know, there's a New Yorker cartoon >> you know, there's a New Yorker cartoon and it's like, "How about never? Is and it's like, "How about never? Is and it's like, "How about never? Is never good for you?" never good for you?" never good for you?" >> Yeah. But that's what someone says if >> Yeah. But that's what someone says if >> Yeah. But that's what someone says if they don't come up with a a date or a they don't come up with a a date or a they don't come up with a a date or a time. time. time. >> Exactly. Yeah. >> Exactly. Yeah. >> Exactly. Yeah. >> What's something about happiness that >> What's something about happiness that >> What's something about happiness that almost everyone believes but is wrong? almost everyone believes but is wrong? almost everyone believes but is wrong? >> Well, the one that's kind of boring is >> Well, the one that's kind of boring is >> Well, the one that's kind of boring is that people think, well, okay, it's that people think, well, okay, it's that people think, well, okay, it's maybe it's not boring. I have a book maybe it's not boring. I have a book maybe it's not boring. I have a book about this called The Myths of about this called The Myths of about this called The Myths of Happiness. Um, I'll be happy when I'll Happiness. Um, I'll be happy when I'll Happiness. Um, I'll be happy when I'll be happy when I have a baby. I'll be be happy when I have a baby. I'll be be happy when I have a baby. I'll be happy when I move to New York. I'll be happy when I move to New York. I'll be happy when I move to New York. I'll be happy when I get that tech job I wanted happy when I get that tech job I wanted happy when I get that tech job I wanted to get. I'll be happy when whatever. Um, to get. I'll be happy when whatever. Um, to get. I'll be happy when whatever. Um, and the truth is you are happy when and the truth is you are happy when and the truth is you are happy when those things happen. But then what those things happen. But then what those things happen. But then what happens is it's called hydonic happens is it's called hydonic happens is it's called hydonic adaptation. We adapt to that new goal. adaptation. We adapt to that new goal. adaptation. We adapt to that new goal. And this is by the way humans probably And this is by the way humans probably And this is by the way humans probably would never progress if we didn't have would never progress if we didn't have would never progress if we didn't have adaptation because then we'd we would adaptation because then we'd we would adaptation because then we'd we would just kind of sit on the mountain and do just kind of sit on the mountain and do just kind of sit on the mountain and do nothing. But we always want more. And uh nothing. But we always want more. And uh nothing. But we always want more. And uh you bring your same self with you when you bring your same self with you when you bring your same self with you when you to the new relationship or to the you to the new relationship or to the you to the new relationship or to the new city or to the new job. And so sort new city or to the new job. And so sort new city or to the new job. And so sort of putting all your eggs in changing of putting all your eggs in changing of putting all your eggs in changing your life circumstances to be happier. your life circumstances to be happier. your life circumstances to be happier. Now there's a caveat. If you live in a Now there's a caveat. If you live in a Now there's a caveat. If you live in a war zone, if you're poor, if you're in war zone, if you're poor, if you're in war zone, if you're poor, if you're in an abusive relationship, absolutely an abusive relationship, absolutely an abusive relationship, absolutely changing your circumstances is going to changing your circumstances is going to changing your circumstances is going to make you happier. But if you're kind of make you happier. But if you're kind of make you happier. But if you're kind of normal, like you know, uh comfortable normal, like you know, uh comfortable normal, like you know, uh comfortable circumstances, then changing them is circumstances, then changing them is circumstances, then changing them is going to make you happy temporarily. going to make you happy temporarily. going to make you happy temporarily. >> Is there a way to hack hydonic >> Is there a way to hack hydonic >> Is there a way to hack hydonic adaptation? adaptation? adaptation? >> Yes. uh through variety, novelty, >> Yes. uh through variety, novelty, >> Yes. uh through variety, novelty, surprise and gratitude. Okay? surprise and gratitude. Okay? surprise and gratitude. Okay? >> Right? So, we adapt to constant stimuli. >> Right? So, we adapt to constant stimuli. >> Right? So, we adapt to constant stimuli. Right? So, when things are the same, Right? So, when things are the same, Right? So, when things are the same, like you buy a car, a new car, at first like you buy a car, a new car, at first like you buy a car, a new car, at first you're like, I love this new car and you're like, I love this new car and you're like, I love this new car and then you know the for the eighth time then you know the for the eighth time then you know the for the eighth time you sit in the car, you don't notice the you sit in the car, you don't notice the you sit in the car, you don't notice the car anymore that it's new. And so, car anymore that it's new. And so, car anymore that it's new. And so, novelty, variety, sort of maybe um yeah, novelty, variety, sort of maybe um yeah, novelty, variety, sort of maybe um yeah, so you have novel create novel so you have novel create novel so you have novel create novel circumstances. So, actually relationship circumstances. So, actually relationship circumstances. So, actually relationship is a better example. We don't want to is a better example. We don't want to is a better example. We don't want to adapt to our new spouse. So, you do adapt to our new spouse. So, you do adapt to our new spouse. So, you do different things with them. I mean it's different things with them. I mean it's different things with them. I mean it's it seems obvious right you do exciting it seems obvious right you do exciting it seems obvious right you do exciting activities with them you learn new activities with them you learn new activities with them you learn new things with them you see new friends I things with them you see new friends I things with them you see new friends I mean people are endlessly fascinating mean people are endlessly fascinating mean people are endlessly fascinating and dynamic right so they're not and dynamic right so they're not and dynamic right so they're not constant um constant um constant um >> and then surprise open yourself up to >> and then surprise open yourself up to >> and then surprise open yourself up to surprises right so if you go to a lot of surprises right so if you go to a lot of surprises right so if you go to a lot of I don't know social events there's going I don't know social events there's going I don't know social events there's going to be things that are surprising right to be things that are surprising right to be things that are surprising right if you take risks there'll be things if you take risks there'll be things if you take risks there'll be things that are surprising I should say that are surprising I should say that are surprising I should say surprise in a positive not a negative surprise in a positive not a negative surprise in a positive not a negative way and then finally gratitude is the way and then finally gratitude is the way and then finally gratitude is the antidote to hyonic adaptation antidote to hyonic adaptation antidote to hyonic adaptation because when you think about that when because when you think about that when because when you think about that when you adapt to something, you start taking you adapt to something, you start taking you adapt to something, you start taking things for granted. And when you're things for granted. And when you're things for granted. And when you're grateful, it's like you don't take it grateful, it's like you don't take it grateful, it's like you don't take it for granted anymore, right? So like if for granted anymore, right? So like if for granted anymore, right? So like if I'm grateful for my health, I'm not I'm grateful for my health, I'm not I'm grateful for my health, I'm not taking my health for granted. So taking my health for granted. So taking my health for granted. So >> truly expressing gratitude, >> truly expressing gratitude, >> truly expressing gratitude, >> but it's not easy, right? I mean, how >> but it's not easy, right? I mean, how >> but it's not easy, right? I mean, how often can you sort of express gratitude often can you sort of express gratitude often can you sort of express gratitude for your car or even for your spouse? for your car or even for your spouse? for your car or even for your spouse? >> Um, but I I'm a big >> Um, but I I'm a big >> Um, but I I'm a big >> especially given that the uh stimuli is >> especially given that the uh stimuli is >> especially given that the uh stimuli is the same. So you're expressing gratitude the same. So you're expressing gratitude the same. So you're expressing gratitude for something you've experienced for something you've experienced for something you've experienced previously. previously. previously. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. you know, uh, something we don't adapt you know, uh, something we don't adapt you know, uh, something we don't adapt to, uh, is a view. to, uh, is a view. to, uh, is a view. >> A view like a beautiful view from >> A view like a beautiful view from >> A view like a beautiful view from >> That's interesting. >> That's interesting. >> That's interesting. >> Is that interesting? So, actually, I >> Is that interesting? So, actually, I >> Is that interesting? So, actually, I have a beautiful view and I did it and I have a beautiful view and I did it and I have a beautiful view and I did it and I got it for a reason. Like, I think it's got it for a reason. Like, I think it's got it for a reason. Like, I think it's worth paying for the view. worth paying for the view. worth paying for the view. >> No one really knows why. I think one >> No one really knows why. I think one >> No one really knows why. I think one reason is novelty and variety. Well, reason is novelty and variety. Well, reason is novelty and variety. Well, variety, right? It's always changing variety, right? It's always changing variety, right? It's always changing with the weather, with the seasons. Um, with the weather, with the seasons. Um, with the weather, with the seasons. Um, I also think there's an evolutionary I also think there's an evolutionary I also think there's an evolutionary reason that humans are hardwired to like reason that humans are hardwired to like reason that humans are hardwired to like to look at things to have a view, right? to look at things to have a view, right? to look at things to have a view, right? Because you can see like, I don't know, Because you can see like, I don't know, Because you can see like, I don't know, friends and enemies, right? friends and enemies, right? friends and enemies, right? >> And also, by the way, water and >> And also, by the way, water and >> And also, by the way, water and mountains, mountains, mountains, we are hardwired to want to see water we are hardwired to want to see water we are hardwired to want to see water and mountains for kind of obvious and mountains for kind of obvious and mountains for kind of obvious reasons that they they're going to help reasons that they they're going to help reasons that they they're going to help us survive and thrive. And so that's why us survive and thrive. And so that's why us survive and thrive. And so that's why views of water and mountains are most views of water and mountains are most views of water and mountains are most like Vancouver is supposed to be one of like Vancouver is supposed to be one of like Vancouver is supposed to be one of the most beautiful cities. Water and the most beautiful cities. Water and the most beautiful cities. Water and mountains together. mountains together. mountains together. >> M. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. >> M. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. >> M. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. Okay. If Okay. If Okay. If >> let's say that you met a a 20-year-old >> let's say that you met a a 20-year-old >> let's say that you met a a 20-year-old today, today, today, >> what would you tell them to prioritize >> what would you tell them to prioritize >> what would you tell them to prioritize if they wanted the highest probability if they wanted the highest probability if they wanted the highest probability of being happy when they were 50? >> Relationships. >> Relationships. Relationships. Um, relationships. But, Relationships. Um, relationships. But, Relationships. Um, relationships. But, but it's really everything we were but it's really everything we were but it's really everything we were talking about today. Like really put talking about today. Like really put talking about today. Like really put effort into maintaining relationships. effort into maintaining relationships. effort into maintaining relationships. Learn social skills. I wish we could Learn social skills. I wish we could Learn social skills. I wish we could take classes in college and high school, take classes in college and high school, take classes in college and high school, right? Everyone can learn some social right? Everyone can learn some social right? Everyone can learn some social skills. How to have a conversation. skills. How to have a conversation. skills. How to have a conversation. >> So have conversations. Um spend time >> So have conversations. Um spend time >> So have conversations. Um spend time with people. Don't spend time alone, you with people. Don't spend time alone, you with people. Don't spend time alone, you know, in the garage on a screen, right? know, in the garage on a screen, right? know, in the garage on a screen, right? Because it's not going to give you Because it's not going to give you Because it's not going to give you practice with those social skills. So practice with those social skills. So practice with those social skills. So relationships in person, ideally face to relationships in person, ideally face to relationships in person, ideally face to face, like you said, like those dinners. face, like you said, like those dinners. face, like you said, like those dinners. Uh make a habit of it. Learn to listen, Uh make a habit of it. Learn to listen, Uh make a habit of it. Learn to listen, be curious, and share. be curious, and share. be curious, and share. Um, yeah, those would be my top Um, yeah, those would be my top Um, yeah, those would be my top my top habits. my top habits. my top habits. >> Okay. Well, I uh speaking of which, >> Okay. Well, I uh speaking of which, >> Okay. Well, I uh speaking of which, >> well, oh my gosh, >> well, oh my gosh, >> well, oh my gosh, >> I have something for you. >> I have something for you. >> I have something for you. >> Yeah. Thank you. Can I open it? >> Yeah. Thank you. Can I open it? >> Yeah. Thank you. Can I open it? >> Yeah, you can. >> Yeah, you can. >> Yeah, you can. >> Yeah. It's a card. It's a card with my >> Yeah. It's a card. It's a card with my >> Yeah. It's a card. It's a card with my name on it. >> Okay. >> Okay. It's a thank you card. Okay. Thank you. I love Arthur, by the way. Thank you. I love Arthur, by the way. Amen. Mentions Arthur Brooks. Uh we were Amen. Mentions Arthur Brooks. Uh we were Amen. Mentions Arthur Brooks. Uh we were in a almost plane crash together. I have in a almost plane crash together. I have in a almost plane crash together. I have a fun story about that. a fun story about that. a fun story about that. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> We were in a plane and it was going to >> We were in a plane and it was going to >> We were in a plane and it was going to crash and I was hold I was sitting next crash and I was hold I was sitting next crash and I was hold I was sitting next to him. I started holding his hand. to him. I started holding his hand. to him. I started holding his hand. >> Um and he's very confident. So it turns >> Um and he's very confident. So it turns >> Um and he's very confident. So it turns out it's very good to be if you want to out it's very good to be if you want to out it's very good to be if you want to be in a plane crash. be in a plane crash. be in a plane crash. >> This is about as Christian as you can >> This is about as Christian as you can >> This is about as Christian as you can come. So he was probably hoping it come. So he was probably hoping it come. So he was probably hoping it crashed. crashed. crashed. >> Well, ah no, no, no. He was just he it's >> Well, ah no, no, no. He was just he it's >> Well, ah no, no, no. He was just he it's very it's it's very useful to be Yes. very it's it's very useful to be Yes. very it's it's very useful to be Yes. sitting next to a very confident, very sitting next to a very confident, very sitting next to a very confident, very masculine masculine masculine >> Christian person. >> Christian person. >> Christian person. >> You know, I'm I'm literally holding his >> You know, I'm I'm literally holding his >> You know, I'm I'm literally holding his hand and he's like, "Sonia, is it going hand and he's like, "Sonia, is it going hand and he's like, "Sonia, is it going to be okay? to be okay? to be okay? >> Everything is going to be okay." >> Everything is going to be okay." >> Everything is going to be okay." >> And then later on he's like, "Sonia, I >> And then later on he's like, "Sonia, I >> And then later on he's like, "Sonia, I didn't realize." Cuz we had lost an didn't realize." Cuz we had lost an didn't realize." Cuz we had lost an engine actually fell out of the plane. engine actually fell out of the plane. engine actually fell out of the plane. Um Um Um >> was it India? >> was it India? >> was it India? >> Where the [ __ ] were we in India in the >> Where the [ __ ] were we in India in the >> Where the [ __ ] were we in India in the middle of nowhere? middle of nowhere? middle of nowhere? >> He's like, "Sonia, I didn't realize how >> He's like, "Sonia, I didn't realize how >> He's like, "Sonia, I didn't realize how bad the situation was." Um, bad the situation was." Um, bad the situation was." Um, >> anyway, you've you've got tens of >> anyway, you've you've got tens of >> anyway, you've you've got tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of thousands, hundreds of thousands of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people to write gratitude letters, and I people to write gratitude letters, and I people to write gratitude letters, and I don't know whether anyone's done it to don't know whether anyone's done it to don't know whether anyone's done it to you on a podcast, so I figured that it you on a podcast, so I figured that it you on a podcast, so I figured that it would be nice. would be nice. would be nice. >> Not on a podcast. I certainly have >> Not on a podcast. I certainly have >> Not on a podcast. I certainly have beautiful letters from my students. I beautiful letters from my students. I beautiful letters from my students. I love love love >> Consider me a student. >> Consider me a student. >> Consider me a student. >> Thank you, >> Thank you, >> Thank you, >> Sonia Loui. Ladies and gentlemen, where >> Sonia Loui. Ladies and gentlemen, where >> Sonia Loui. Ladies and gentlemen, where should people go to check out everything should people go to check out everything should people go to check out everything that's going on? that's going on? that's going on? >> Uh, how to feel love.com. Just the title >> Uh, how to feel love.com. Just the title >> Uh, how to feel love.com. Just the title of my book, how to feel love.com. And we of my book, how to feel love.com. And we of my book, how to feel love.com. And we also have, by the way, we have a quiz also have, by the way, we have a quiz also have, by the way, we have a quiz where you can take and it shows, it will where you can take and it shows, it will where you can take and it shows, it will tell you, just five minutes. It will tell you, just five minutes. It will tell you, just five minutes. It will tell you which mindset is your strongest tell you which mindset is your strongest tell you which mindset is your strongest mindset and which is your weakest mindset and which is your weakest mindset and which is your weakest mindset. And I think it could be very mindset. And I think it could be very mindset. And I think it could be very useful. useful. useful. >> Heck yeah. Sonia, [clears throat] I >> Heck yeah. Sonia, [clears throat] I >> Heck yeah. Sonia, [clears throat] I appreciate you. appreciate you. appreciate you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right. See you next time, everyone. >> All right. See you next time, everyone. >> All right. See you next time, everyone. Bye. Bye. Bye. >> Y. >> Y. >> Y. >> Oh my god. Thank you. Thank you. Oh my >> Oh my god. Thank you. Thank you. Oh my >> Oh my god. Thank you. Thank you. Oh my god. god. god. >> Thank you very much for tuning in. If >> Thank you very much for tuning in. If >> Thank you very much for tuning in. If you enjoyed that episode, another one you enjoyed that episode, another one you enjoyed that episode, another one that I know you love is just here.