Why the People Who Built Hip-Hop Ended Up With Nothing

Key Takeaway

Identify a community or field that shaped your opportunities, then make one concrete contribution today: publicly credit a pioneer, introduce two people across generations, donate time or money, or check in on someone whose work is undervalued. The Paid in Full Foundation’s lesson is that support works best when it combines material help with genuine recognition. Don’t wait for an institution to fix an obvious gap—start with what is right, make the contribution visible, and help create a culture of reciprocity.

Episode Overview

Ben Horowitz, Nas, Grandmaster Caz, and Steve Stout discuss the Paid in Full Foundation, which honors and financially supports foundational hip-hop artists whose cultural impact was rarely matched by recognition or compensation. They explore how celebrating pioneers alongside providing long-term grants restores dignity, connects generations of artists, and turns hip-hop’s stated values of community and empowerment into action.

Full Transcript

Transcript of Why the People Who Built Hip-Hop Ended Up With Nothing from A16Z. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

I think in life it's impossible to do anything great if you start with what's possible You have to start with what's right hip-hop's not that big like the guys who made the art form are not that many And so why can't we honor them acknowledging and celebrating and then bringing this group of people together? It's something that the industry should have done a long time ago when people see me and they see my passion This nigga still got it. He's still doing it because I have to hip-hop don't have Social Security You have to work the whole thing about hip-hop is about to grow to be better And I think we are living our lyrics.

We're paid in full I want everybody to know around the world what Grandmaster Kaz looks like and to celebrate him and applaud this man for what he's Done and celebrate Roxanne and celebrate Melly and the DOC and everybody else who's had these achievements The thing is the honor the thing is putting you in the light that you deserve to be in if you're watching this and love Hip-hop hip-hop changed music fashion language and culture But many of the people who built it never received the recognition or financial rewards that matched their impact In this episode Ben Horowitz and I sit down with Nas Grandmaster Kaz and Steve Stout to tell the story behind the paid in full foundation and its mission to honor hip-hop pioneers We discuss why the foundation pairs financial support with recognition what happens when generations of hip-hop artists come together and while giving these artists their flowers is about more than an award and Kaz shares what that recognition has meant firsthand from his place in hip-hop history to how paid in full helped change his life So this is the first time this group has gotten together to publicly talk about the paid in full foundation has welcomed to the podcast Thank you.

So Ben, why don't you introduce the foundation and Maybe let's get into the origin story as far back as you want to go as to how this came to be Yes So paid in full is an organization meant to honor the legacy of the people who created one of the most important musical art forms of all time hip-hop and Make sure that they're paid in full financially spiritually and Culturally and the idea kind of started with me Steven Nas so it always bothered me that I Bought paid in full the album for ten dollars and I got you know in my career and you know people in tech know this I probably got at least five million dollars worth of value out of that record, but there was no way To pay it back and it needed to be paid back And so I had the idea Originally, and I called Steve Steve and I have been friends for many many years and I said Steve I have this idea What do you think and he said well, it's not only a good idea But it's a very timely idea because people are talking about this right now, but they're not doing anything So if you listen to the podcast people are saying oh these rappers these old guys don't have any money They're dusty that this that and all these kinds of things and these are Very very important guys, but nobody's doing anything and so I thought well let's do something and then the next call I made was to Nas and Nas had a great insight because a lot of the concept our Dear friend all of our friend Quincy Jones had a thing called the jazz foundation where he would get money to the old jazz guys And I told it to Nas and Nas said that's not going to work that way in hip-hop Because in hip-hop, you can't just give somebody money.

It has to be more than that It has to be a recognition of what they did and who they are and so that's when we got the idea of well, let's have a Big award show have this idea of the Grandmaster Award for the true greats of hip-hop And then invite everybody to honor these guys and we started off with two all-time greats Scarface and Rakim Before we even got to the first show it was also timely because Scarface was going through a medical condition. Yes, and I remember I was in south of France and I've called him and He needed to get his kidney He did get his kidney from his son a kidney transplant and it wasn't the right doctors and obviously there's a lot of care and concern on that anyway, but More specific was the money and the doctor who was performing the surgery and I called him And I've known Scarface for years, but like when I called him literally from the south of France in June And he got that phone call from me about what we were gonna do He was in shock.

I mean just imagine the phone call come randomly from a guy You hadn't spoken to in two years and I'm calling you about your medical condition and I'm telling you that we got you financially I'm gonna help you and I remember calling Ben after that and saying look I spoke to Scarface man, and He was in disbelief. In fact early on people weren't such disbelief. They didn't believe that it was real We had a hard time Actually helping people Cuz they didn't believe it Yeah, I have some stories on that of I don't even know if I can mention the name So we had people who literally didn't get the award because they thought it was a scam.

Yeah They just didn't want to mess with it. And that's actually What reinforced the belief that if you celebrated the artist and it didn't feel like you were? Giving them something like reparations But you were actually celebrating them and give them the honor and dignity to deserve that they had not received properly Then that would be the way That it would be accepted and celebrated and it wasn't until we did the first one And it was you know, we like any other startup you duct tape and right you said whatever we got to do to get this thing going but we had Scarface and Rakim and then obviously the support of the board and having Nas on the board and that all helped and Then it was started to go through the community.

There is something that's happening and that's when it it worked But literally was disbelief from the initial phone calls and just initial reach out. Like why would anybody do this? That's how fucked they've been for so long. Like why would anybody come look and try to help us now? Yeah, and I thought the rap community has been like to not show love To be so divided to act like is every man for itself, you know rap is competitive But at some point you gotta bring it around to what it's supposed to be and it was funny Like nothing like this ever existed.

It's sort of like when you were talking to me I was like, why hasn't this happened? like I'm in the right circle of people to be talking about the right thing and It was almost like it was daring for us to even to do something like this Yeah, well, it's one of those things where I think somebody got to step up at some point and that's the thing about history in general is People act like things are inevitable, but they're not somebody's got to do something and that's been the thing that's you know Once it's done, it's very obvious, but until somebody steps up it doesn't happen And actually I met Kaz in New York kind of right around the first year and I remember we had a great conversation, but then Kind of going back and re-understanding how important Kaz was like Steve.

Let me ask you this in a Different circumstance in a different kind of timing how big would a Kaz been? Kaz I talked about you after I met you I Speak about you the fact that you are so charismatic Still right now. Hmm right now that you hold no bitterness in your heart and You present yourself as a star. I mean, it's clear if you would have been I mean 12 years later, I mean just Forget it. By the way, if you would have actually just got the credit you deserve from the In the beginning we wouldn't have to fast-forward at 12 years, but I'm just saying that when you walk into a room it shifts You have that level of presence and talent and star power.

So I think it's definitely ageless the time period but It was shocking to me that Again, everybody had known what had happened to Kaz It's the original Not enough people knew though. Yeah at the same time Not enough people knew but the right people knew the industry knew. Yes in the music industry knew that a hundred percent The music is a condom. Yeah, I mean Kaz Wrote the rhyme that became rap is the life I mean those were his rhymes with his name in the rhymes the first hit and it was the first hip-hop hit was stolen from him and He didn't get what he deserved and everybody knew it But no one ever did anything about it never said anything about it didn't give a fuck about it When we were having our board calls and we were thinking about who we were gonna honor.

I mean What are the privileges of having this group of people? looking at the cases and Deciding who we're gonna give the award to You say certain people's names and it's unanimous It's like it's like it's like everybody it's like yes, and then everyone's arguing why there yes is more. Yes Yo, Kaz, yes, but you don't understand why I said because everybody's so delighted that we nailed the person and Then you meet the person and it is so beautiful when they walk in the room, right?

And I like We've been blessed to have Honored people who not only deserve it But when they got the phone call They didn't come in with about time or right, you know any of that kind of energy they came in Smile bright glowing, you know, I think about Kaz and Shantae when I when I just think about you know Yeah, I just glowing when Roxanne got the award and she said You know her kid her child ever said a child never said, you know mom you see all these Rappers these female rappers getting all these awards.

Don't you ever feel? Bitter about that or you don't feel anything about that. She's like no, I didn't want that award. I wanted the right award Yeah, mmm paid in full and I was like Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome that we were able to do that and and to be able to give these artists that recognition Right now and and then having the artists Be a part of voting for the future. Yeah. Yes recipients, right? So Kaz is now a recipient and he's part of the committee who's voting for future recipients And that's the gift that keeps giving about this foundation and Shantae is one of the reasons I'm here, you know She's from my neighborhood same neighborhood and when she she released Roxanne's revenge back in 1984 and 1985 she was a kid older than me, but a kid and When I saw that she could be on a radio rapping and Going after men.

It was like it was like she was like an activist and beating them She was like an activist a woman's activist, you know And because that was unheard of in hip-hop and when I saw her be that bold and To challenge a whole established rap group and change the course of this whole thing For me that was incredibly inspiring, you know So to have her be a part of this, you know to me it's still it's still crazy, you know, I Love it for me When I I was kind of brought in, you know what I mean on you know, I had no idea what was going on I just know somebody that I know from a while back reach out to me I hadn't heard in from in years and that was Quincy Qd3 and I'm like you what's up?

You know this and that such a such a like this and that he was pretty vague But he was like I want you to come downtown and you know I mean this and that and that's when I met Ben and everybody and I really didn't wasn't Wasn't fully, you know what I mean, but I was being vetted To some degree, you know what? I mean? We want we want this guy. Let's see. What is you know? Let's see where his head is at. Let's see where his attitude because I've seen or heard about you know other people who deserve but don't you know what I mean, I Just I just came just with my spirit and the fact that So many people these guys had alluded to earlier had brought this up earlier or brought up the subject You know, we should give the old-school dudes, you know a million dollars, you know I mean, I think Swiss beasts of made it public.

Shout out to Swiss. I'm Not to interrupt you, but I just did sorry, but I had to say it When you were saying that you reminded me of something I spoke about this in a magazine I think in the 90s. Uh-huh. That's what would I do or Maybe the year 2000 they asked a bunch of hip-hop artists and I described this to a tee So I just saw somebody pointed that out to me like last month that I forgot. I even said that planet so we all been Wanting this type of thing.

Sorry to cut you off again because I just got excited at that memory and I would debate Hip-hop with Ben. Yeah, I would debate hip-hop with Steve Forever me and Steve will stop speaking Disagreeing Will analyze the album to death Ben got with you and sent me a video of your conversation and about sugarhill gang and everything I couldn't believe that you cared so much for Yeah, being from the bay about the origin story of some of the greatest hip-hop history ever, but I shouldn't have been surprised, but it was just like the care that we have for the culture is the same.

Like Kaz, like I talked to you about history. Every time I approach you, I'm stalking you about what happened this year and that year and the other. So it's not just the pay the full thing is like a, it's a way that we convinced ourselves that we can be together and we can get together and not just talk about it from afar. We can actually talk to Kaz. We could actually be in a room with Rakim and it's not just this thing that's so spread out.

It's bringing us together. It feels like a, like a class reunion. Yes. And last year when Dr. Dre heard about Peyton Fullen decided to come, I was in shock that he asked me, could I introduce him to Kumo D? He never met him before. And I was like, this is, first of all, I would never even think of that. You know, not that, that Dr. Dre never met Kumo D before. So Dre did this to me too, in Vegas. He said, could I introduce him to Slick Rick?

He never met him before. Yeah. Oh my God. It's just a wild, it's wild that it took this foundation to bring these type of people together. And the bond is that strong. The bond is so strong that 25, 30 years removed, Dr. Dre with all of his glory and success is like, man, could you, could you please introduce me to Slick Rick and Kumo D? But at the same time that it took this celebration in order to bring these legends together in the same room. Agreed.

To create that moment. And I think the industry itself like separates us, you know, by success, status, you know what I mean? Who's hot, who's signed, who this and that, you know what I mean? So I haven't, if I see Nas, it's like by happenstance or something, all these years, you know what I mean? Mutual respect. You know what I mean? But I don't see him all the time. If he reaches out or something as he's did in the past and done a project and say, yo Kaz, I want you to be a part.

I'm on it. Automatically. I ain't got to see him or none of that. Just say it. And I'm there. You know what I mean? Now I see him every year. I can call him on the phone. Steve Stout. You hear about Steve Stout, big business man, he done made this person rich. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a special moment that is growing every year. It's growing every year. And to Kaz's point, this idea of separating artists, I'm not sure why that happened. I'm not sure if it was the industry doing the industry's doings on purpose, or was it just the fact that rap was broken into like old school, new school, this, that, and the third.

So they just, it was just no connection. But the truth of the matter is that the real artists have respect for the person that they had their posts on their wall. Definitely. The first CD they bought or the first CD, the first tape that they bought. And that respect that inspired either me as a businessman or Nas as an artist or Ben as a businessman, whatever it is, that'll never ever go away. Like sports heroes never, it never goes away. And so the foundation acknowledging and celebrating, and then bringing this group of people together is something that the industry should have done a long time ago.

And like, there's been attempts, like the VH1 thing, hip hop honors, hip hop honors. And it's cool. It's not, it's putting a light on it, on these artists, but it's not putting anything in their pockets. Yeah. It's not, it's not investing in the artists. It's not making them feel like they've gotten acknowledged for everything that they contributed. That was, that was a point. It was two things. It was starting paid in full, but also Ben investing in United Masters. The idea was like, how do you contribute so much culturally, but yet the financial take is so meaningless?

How does, how do you put, pour so much in and get so little out? No respect, I'll tell you. You know, and, and everybody became comfortable with that idea. They just accepted it as, oh, that's just the way it is. That's just the way it is. Meanwhile, you're changing the way people are dressing, you're changing dialect, you're changing so much in the world and yet your bank account or acknowledgement for what you've contributed is not even part, it doesn't add up. It's not, that's not inspiring and it doesn't incentivize creativity.

It doesn't incentivize anything, incentivizes people to feel like they've been robbed and stolen from. Right, right. And, and, and not to cut you off, in the lyrics of hip hop, we speak about the total opposite. We speak about breaking down barriers. We speak about changing the system. We speak about love. We speak about being entrepreneurs and taking this thing into our hands and, and keeping it real. But then the action of keeping it real didn't, wasn't happening outside the studio. You play a record, this dude sounds like he's the realest ever.

Then you see him, he won't speak to you. You see him, he's, you know, he's posted up and he's not talking to you. You see him, you could be like, yo, I need some help. He's looking at you. He's laughing at you. You know what I'm saying? It's, it's, it's a competitiveness to know, to, to the max. And it doesn't round up being like what the lyrics said. You hear the lyrics of rap since the beginning, since Kaz was talking what he was talking and inspiring and putting his DNA into this thing.

And, and, and bigger groups will come from Kaz and bigger soloists and the rap game will be shifted with what Kaz put down and the lyrics represent one thing. But how do we, how are we going to be real? And we say we're hip hop, we're real. And then the actions are not happening. It's just going to be on record. It can't just be on record. The whole thing about hip hop is about to grow, to be better. And I think, uh, we are living our lyrics.

We're paid in full and it takes the courage of Ben and his wife, Felicia and their foundation to put the money up, um, to match the contribution, um, to be able to, to, to fund something like this. I mean, um, you would think that, or you would hope that it would come from an organization that benefited financially from it. You would write a label. One would guess, one would guess, of course, if you just say, who do you think will help these guys? You'd be like, oh, definitely the record company.

Someone so, this person, that person. No, no. It takes somebody. It's hard for me to sell him a ticket. It's a crazy rap fan. That's crazy. Named Ben. Crazy rap fan. Felicia. Um, who is a, um, entrepreneur who, who has deep soul and belief in what, in respect for creativity that made this one of his missions to help solve this and make sure the right guys get properly awarded and, and, and, and, and the respect they deserve. Um, and I think this year, I think this year is going to be a pivotal year for the organization.

Um, this is our fourth year and we have a great, great, great, great lineup. It's very well produced. You're like, you don't walk in first year, lucky you wasn't there. You know, we were, we were feeling our way through. It was a little long. It was a little inside the third where we learned like anything else we learn, refined, got tighter, got smarter. And I think we got it now, um, in year four, where it's going to be our biggest year. And hopefully this thing, I believe that as well as produced as this show will be, that it's something that we could take, um, wider at the same time, I feel like I want everybody to know around the world, what Grandmaster Kaz looks like and, and to celebrate him and applaud this man for what he's done and, and celebrate Roxanne and celebrate, you know, Melly and, and, and, and the DOC and everybody else who's, you know, had these achievements, these achievements that they've done and contributed so much to their culture that they get a chance to, to, to see their heroes on the, on the platform that they respect.

I think when you do something big and important, not only in hip hop, but in anything, people are going to emulate, people are going to want to follow. If they see a formula that works, Ben, you're a testament to this. See a formula that works, you want in and you're going to want to try to, you know, do something. And, and a lot of people lost, uh, uh, I don't know, face or whatever, because all of these, nobody did it yet. And I, Steve and I have conversations about this kind of thing all the time, but I think in life, it's impossible to do anything great.

If you start with what's possible, you have to start with what's right. And if you start with what's right, then you have it. It may not be possible, but at least you have a chance to do something great. And so, you know, that's always how I came at it. I was like, look, we ought to be able to figure this out. It's not, hip hop's not that big. Like the guys who made the art form are not that many. And so why can't we honor them?

Like, it just, it didn't make any sense to me. And then by the way, I mean, you guys were very kind saying, you know, I wasn't a beneficiary. I'm a big beneficiary of Kaz and Nas and Rakim in that they were, you all were the inspiration to my career and one, what got me through like a very, very difficult times in business. So hard that I wrote like a bestselling book about how hard it was. And in the book, you know, I had the rap lyrics, which in Silicon Valley, I actually got a lot of criticism for it because like, what are you doing with hip hop?

You know, is that some kind of gimmick and so forth? And I was like, no, this is credit where credit is due. The ideas that I had in business came from those lyrics and that's why the chapters, that's why the idea started with the lyric because that's where the idea started. And it was just credit where credit was due. And so it was my, you know, my chance to, in my mind, just do what was right and pay it back. And, you know, look, I'm an entrepreneur.

I know how to build things. So, you know, building a foundation didn't seem that hard, but yeah, no, I haven't. If I got pushed back or like people talked about it bad, I don't listen. I can't even hear it. No, he doesn't. He doesn't hear it. And what you do, you bring people, you invite people who would probably be like, have no interest in this topic and you, and you bring them there and you know what they do? I've seen it convert. Yeah. They go there and they're like, I'll go, I'll go for Ben.

I mean, whatever. I'll go for Ben. It's Ben. Then they go there and they're like, oh shit. I didn't even know this, that, I didn't know that. And it connects a lot of dots and is obviously a lot of empathy. How do you not feel empathy for somebody who's invented something and didn't get what they deserve? But we don't, the theme of the night isn't that, the theme of the night isn't get what you deserve. That's the underlying foundational truth. And on top of that, we celebrate the fact that you are getting now what you deserve.

You are getting the acknowledgement you and the light put on you in the right way by a bunch of people who respect you and that you were chosen to do it. I mean, come on, man. Last year, I met my man, Graham Poobah for so long to see Poobah up there. That made me feel so proud to have a, you know, like, why would he, you will skip that. It's easy to skip it. It's just like, oh no, not that. And you got Graham Poobah. At one point, the greatest rapper.

Oh, by the way, did it over three different, it's funny about rap. I don't know if you, eras. It's not like decades, but eras could be four years. It could be a four year where it just changed. And if you don't even, if you're not part of it, you don't even realize how fast it changes. Right. So. Masters of Ceremony, Fran Nubian, Poobah. Solo career. Yeah. Three eras. Three. He went through three eras. Crazy. And got through that and got to the other side. Very few artists had done that.

And those changes during that period of time were drastic. Like it was like, you were out there. A lot of our favorite artists couldn't jump that fence. And they got stuck on the other side. And then you all of a sudden, you're considered old school or you're considered washed or considered not dope anymore, whatever the thing was. And Graham Poobah did that. No one's going to sit and then turn around and watch this man go on stage and get his props. No one else is going to do that.

And no one else is going to put the time and effort into that. Timing to have the people that understand that nuance. It's easy to write a check you have people write checks of things and They check that box Right. No love. It's it's it's where the check is being written and there's so much time Going into making sure we get it, right? Yeah Because of the love and in the room there's love Even if you didn't think you'd be walking in a room like that You think it's gonna be like some type of typical award show or something like that.

It's genuine. Love. There's no egos nobody's putting their chest out in front of nobody doesn't matter if Billionaires over there and over here at that table on that table. Everybody's here on on a real thing of learning What's happening on the stage you're getting you're being educated and then we're talking about our man Quincy Jones who? Spent a lot of time with been before he passed and then cutie three being there and we're getting the To see a Quincy Jones award happened through this because Quincy had he been here He would have been a part of this show, right?

And and we get this last year George Clinton went he did he brought the mothership He did he did a mothership thing for us and it was just mind-blowing To see him reciting Rakim's lyrics to follow the leader. This is George Clinton. He is the outer space God He is the guy who shifted music and then him reciting at 83 years old. Oh Rakim's lyrics on stage This is like this is a room of love on another level. Well, let me to the Quincy Jones Award Quincy Jones obvious legend the legend of legends the triple OG that yeah, you know the foundation of it all No disrespect, but the Grammys botched his botched his celebration the idea for the Quincy Jones Award Was literally because of how bad the Grammys did it?

It wasn't like we thought we had to check that box we couldn't believe They got that wrong They didn't they didn't they didn't pay tribute to this man properly To the point that his son was like Qt3 was like let's do this and now it's part of what we do in the foundation on an annual basis That's love. Can we say who the new? Recipient of the Quincy Jones We're not we're not gonna get into the detail of that story, but I mean, but who now Rogers me.

Yeah. Yes. I do not know Rogers. Yes Yeah, this is a great now Rogers who yes came up with a a guitar lick Don't that's been used. Oh, that's been good times. Hmm, by the way, I mean hip-hop Hip-hop connection, that's his hip-hop connection chic. Look at all. Oh god. It's the sledge. Look I mean, come on go down to the Everything he's produced all the way up to get lucky. Yeah for death. Yeah. Yeah. Fuck. He's that guy You say so boom. So we got now Rogers this year getting the Quincy Jones Award So what we're doing is obviously we're making sure Within our purview whether it's old-school hip-hop or You know Quincy Jones who should have gotten celebrated a little bit more properly with his Grammys That we're making a contribution to make sure we get it, right?

We're holding ourselves accountable to get it, right? This is obviously a big thing to do because You got families estates Other artists looking at this Do you know a Side, I like are these are these is this real right? Is this going away anytime soon? Is this another facade? What are they selling on the back of this? They must be selling t-shirts off the trunk Right. Yeah, I call cool rocks key from the fat boys and like yo, man We want you in this and I think for for a second he didn't think it was real.

Yeah Not thinking it was real Very appreciative g-wrap, I called him. He was very Appreciative. I mean you're one of the greatest emcees of all time man. One of my biggest inspirations And Then when people come again, it's love man. It's real love. You know, it's your time. It's your show We're here for you and I think is is surprising for them to feel like it's not it's nothing like Like you said, we're not selling shirts out in the bag. We're not this is not for us.

It gives us joy that we're doing this but it's It's beautiful to see these people show up and and be appreciated in and showing so now So you just talked about the ego thing? Of course it is. I mean first of all At the end you start going crazy on the mic, right? I mean you and Monty last year. Oh, yeah Y'all go crazy on the mic. So that's still there. Let's let's be clear. It's a celebration But that part it's like a part the part jam part is going anywhere.

Yeah, but like Because there's so much ego and rap at least in this moment in this room it comes down to the point where Ice Q came two years ago. Yeah. Yeah, and he says I Wouldn't even put out an album until I listen to what Scarface had to say. Yeah, I knew you know when he said this Oh, yeah He's like I knew before I dropped anything. I'd have to make sure what this guy was saying you would came after Q Scarface came out the cube, but it's cute.

But when Scarface came whoa, and To watch Scarface and rock him acknowledge each other's writing skills. Oh, you know, dude, that's like You love hip-hop If you're watching this and love hip-hop You gotta know to have Rakim and Scarface have a conversation about writing and respect That they have for each other, you know real pure way is You talking about two of the greatest writers in anything, yeah, I don't give a fuck what it is Yes, anything in anything having a real discussion about and every Hip-hop guy in the world before a sense would acknowledge what you said.

Nobody would even Some of the greatest writers of all. Yeah in hip-hop Scarface and Rakim like not even a question Nothing to discuss nothing to discuss and they're discussing it for the first time at paid in full. That's how special this room is Okay, let me give the plug paid in full foundation org you can come and be a part of it and Felicia and I match every donation two-and-a-half to one which means that All your money goes to the artist. There are no paid employees at the foundation.

Everything is volunteer and So, you know if you want to be part of it if you want to contribute paid in full foundation org And that's my plug and I want to ask Kaz Kaz We've been talking about it but like being a recipient What did it what has it meant to you from an honor standpoint from a financial standpoint? Like how did it affect you? You know tell us from from from that side. Yeah, I definitely was gonna address that at some point because it's not Specifics, you know what?

I mean? Like yo this and that with this one gets that this one get that it's like you get it You get a a grant, you know what? I mean, so to speak and it's over a five-year period and it's it's helped change my life You know, I mean I was on on a path to you know for self-improvement and trying to get things that you know LL Cool J called me a few years back and was like yo, it's time I want you on a radio, you know what I mean, but When Peyton fool called me, you know what I mean?

It was like young and now this is gonna change your life I bought a house. Wow. I mean I moved out some projects And I'm living in the Bronx all my life Yeah I only did a three-year stint in Cali for a while But I lived in a Bronx on my life and I thought I would always I would end up here And my the last thoughts in my head for the last like 10-15 years. I don't want to die in the projects I don't want to end here.

I don't want it to end here and It didn't and it's not you know what I mean? I got a nice house in Pennsylvania you know what I'm saying me and my wife and My life has improved drastically I got a comfort, you know, I got like a cushion That I never had you know what I mean? Everything was day-to-day everything was run out grind hustle. And when people see me and they see my passion they see my you know, I mean this nigga still got it He's still doing it because I have to I Didn't have no no, you know what?

I mean? Hip-hop don't have Social Security, you know, I mean hip-hop don't have no Health benefits or none of that. You have to work. You got to stay out there for me Anyway, I got to keep working. So when you see me on radio, you see me doing park jams You see me doing hip-hop Sisy and tours and all all that was to maintain to keep me up and at it and I think my attitude That went along with it and the way that I deal with people Kept me in people's consciousness, you know what I mean?

Which I'm so fucking grateful for you know what I mean? And like I said, uh, I can't speak for everybody, but I'm sure what what is done for me? It's done for everybody, you know what I mean? You know what I mean? I know one thing I want to say and I don't want to say which person but We was talking about some people didn't know if it was a scam or whatever, you know A couple people thought was like yo, I don't I don't need this like i'm good You know what?

I mean? I you know, you know like a hand like like I don't need nobody to give me nah It's not about that It's not all about that. That ain't about that. That's that's a part of it Yeah, I mean the thing is the honor the thing is putting you in the light that you deserve to be in And I gotta salute ll cool j for that too. You know what I mean? He he put us me. He put shy rock on the radio when um He didn't have to and he created a whole lane.

He's like now that's y'all go monday through friday y'all on the air You know what I mean? So that kind of recognition it resonates and when people see important people giving you your props they feel Obligated like you know, I gotta say what this does is What how you just ended it is it brings? recognition and that's the gift that keeps giving because it is it's it's done out of love and It it kind of inspires more people to think That you know, we can do things like this too.

We can We got to remember let's take care of each other. I'll say this I was Getting reached out to by a few hip-hop artists For a while, I probably The later end of the 90s on and I would do things for different artists It won't say it. I won't even mention the names even up to someone who passed away recently. Um a musical hip-hop, uh producer whatever like I was there and You know, I wonder how many more of us Were doing that but it's on the low.

This is on the high right? This is on a high on an even bigger level and that that it's you can show it you can show the world We're taking care Of our own we're taking care of the thing that took care of us with in ben's book. He has pieces of lyrics Uh in one of his books, he has pieces of lyrics. Um That inspired him these things are Important because if we forget if we don't if we sweep it all under the rug If you don't know that poobah took hill finger to another level if you don't know sprite sprite He what do you say this?

Period by the way That's exactly why I wrote the tanning of america. It was specifically so that all of the things that hip-hop created And your book you talk about at the concert when at the run dc concert I go from Everybody holds up the adidas what that did for adidas what it did for adidas when he Adidas was kind of dead at the time Dead. Oh, yeah, two percent market share in america two percent two percent market share in america and three quarters of that two percent was coming from the northeast region and all they knew is that Why everybody up there buying this one specific skew and why are they throwing away the shoelaces?

But the uh, but poobah Obey your thirst is his line First things first obey your thirst. That's his line. That's their tagline. Yeah Like no one would ever pay attention to these things these guys are pioneers above and beyond Hip-hop they created the culture Around the music that lives on to this day the fashion the language the brands that have uh only exists as a result of their contribution I love tommy hillfinger. Tommy hillfinger is a great guy. He's done a lot. Um with uh artists He should be part of you know, contributing to paid in full if it wasn't for uh, Hip-hop for sure.

He was dead in the water. They were selling ties I mean he he So he says that. They were actually selling, he was selling ties. He was trying to be Ralph Lauren. And they were like, you're not Ralph Lauren, dog. And on his way, and listen, on his way home, because he lived in Greenwich, when you leave the city, you can obviously, you can get to Greenwich by the traditional way, taking the highway, or you can cut through Harlem and get up to Westchester. So he's cutting through Harlem, and he's seen everybody wearing their pants low, and their Calvin Klein, top of the Calvin Klein briefs show.

And literally, that's where he got the idea to make underwear and use that, where would Calvin, the- Tommy. Top, yeah, and put Tommy there. Where would, the top of the underwear, whatever, this shit is cool. Yeah, the elastic, the elastic band. And he put Tommy Hilfiger there, and made the waistband bigger, thicker, so that you could, it was- You could really see it. And that's how the whole thing got going, seriously. That's literally, and he talks about it, and he'd seen it driving through Harlem. That's crazy.

And that's when the brand took off, and went from selling ties that wasn't working to now selling streetwear, the hottest fashion trend in the world, streetwear that Louis Vuitton sells, designed by Skateboard P. You know what I'm saying? God bless, and Virgil. Like, and these are the things that these guys have been a part of contributing, that they never got their fair share of. And by the way, what we're doing, is we're just trying to get momentum. We're not trying to solve the world's problem here.

We need others to either come and donate to the organization for sure, or start other organizations that also have the same motive, to help celebrate, give back to the guys who've helped contribute to your business, contribute to you, to inspire you. I know fake shit. Some real, with love and respect. Yes. With love and respect. Yes, sir. And actually, on that, I wanna tell a story, because the love and respect part goes beyond even the award. So Scarface had a heart condition. And look, he comes from a place where people don't even really go to the doctor, let alone go in for open heart surgery, which is what he needed.

And he was on the phone with my wife, Felicia, and she knew he was scared. And she flew out to Houston to see him before he went to the doctor, and he didn't wanna go in. And he's like, no, I don't wanna go to the doctor. I'm not going to the doctor. And she said, nah. And he calls her the bully. She's about five feet tall, weighs maybe a buck or five. And she says, no, I'm taking you to the doctor right now. And right as they got into the doctor, his aorta burst.

And they got him in just in time and saved his life. And that doesn't happen without her caring so much about him. And a lot of what the foundation is about, because she runs it, she's the president, is how much she cares about these artists and how much she's committed to taking care of them regardless, regardless. Like forget the award, forget what the actual contract is and all that kind of thing. She's gonna do that work. And that creates the whole culture of the thing, which is why that feeling at the award is so different.

Agreed. I have nothing more serious. And I have to definitely kudos to Felicia. Nothing more serious than that. She makes it like it's love involved here. And like beyond the award, beyond the check, you know what I mean? It's not over. You'll get a call. How are you doing? It's your wife. You know what I mean? Oh, she's sick? Give me her address. She sends the next day flowers come. You know what I mean? The next day like some glasses, some Dior glasses come. That's how Felicia is.

And it's not about what's going on. She'll randomly call you just to check on you and see if everything's good. And that's the difference between this and anything I've ever experienced in an award, grant, founding, or anything like that. You know, the love, the genuine love. I just can't speak enough about the event that's coming up, the next Hip Hop Grandmaster Awards. It's gonna be monumental. And if you haven't been abreast of what's going on with Paid in Full, definitely check in, okay, this year. And then look back at what we've done in the past four years, all right?

And then get on board. Don't play with it. Stay with it. Yeah. Yes, sir. Now, Steve, I'm curious if you could talk about when was the moment you knew that you and Ben were gonna be friends for life? Steve invited me to a dinner years ago. That's crazy. Oh, yeah, it was an interesting room of people, right? He put together a great room, great restaurant. It was Mr. Childs' downtown. Half-life ready, yeah. So this room was dope, right? And he put this together. And I heard about Ben through him.

And I met Ben right there. And just our love for music and love for food was a thing that connected me and Ben at that point. And we've just been cool since then. Yeah, some of my best times listening to Rakim with Nas. By the way, Nas hears things in Rakim songs that nobody else hears. It's like unbelievable. And then listening to Prince. We listen to Prince together. Yeah, we bring it down. Yeah, and going to visit Triple OG, Quincy Jones together. Music fans who just, Nas is like as great an artist as he is, he's that great a music fan.

I was at Quincy's house when he had just moved into the house, or redecorated the house rather. And it was me and Chris Tucker. And he goes and he was showing us the casting tapes for Color Purple, right? He's showing us. And there was Whoopi Goldberg. And she's just talking to camera like this, whatever, whatever. And then she starts reading the script. And then within a second starts crying. I was like, it was the first time I seen acting. And I was like, I mean, I knew for a fact, this is fucking a skill that is beyond.

She was like regular normal talking. And he said, all right, it's Steven Spielberg's holding the camera. This is that. And boom, she just starts crying. So anyhow. Yeah, she was great in that role. Yeah, so she just starts crying. So anyhow, Chris Tucker, we were all blown away by just like that fact that she did that. And we started talking about a bunch of different shit. And I talked about bringing up Nas. And Nas's dad, Oludar, yo, this guy gets up. And Quincy Jones at that age was still moving very quickly.

Like he was like a very, like a quick guy, quickly went and go grab, went to a bunch of vinyls and came back with pictures. And he showed me a picture of him with Nas's dad in San Tropez in the 60s. That's amazing. I was like, holy shit. Like I knew Nas's dad was like obviously a jazz legend, but I didn't know at what level it was that these guys were running around. He tells me, he would tell me stories of people he'd been around, but I didn't listen.

I'm like, ah, yeah, okay, pop. Yeah, my pop told me about him to me. The song Juicy came out. He's like, yeah, that's my man. I'm like, come on, you probably met him in passing. You know what I'm saying? I ain't thinking nothing about it. What year was that, 83, 84 or something? I got into the rap game and I met him to me and he's like, yo, your dad is my man. And I said, you know, I didn't believe him when he told me that.

Not that he's a liar or anything, but I didn't know it was like, y'all were like that. He's like, that's my guy, man. I was like, yo, you don't understand. Juicy Fruit was the biggest song in the world. So how could I believe that at the time? I'm a kid, I don't know if he's just trying to make me feel good or something like that. But he knew a lot of people, even when he was younger, man. Quincy knew everybody. That's gonna be him. Everybody. No, no, no, that's definitely gonna be him.

Everybody know, your kids. Yeah, we know. The fact that Olu, now you gotta understand, like in anything else, you know, the DNA thing, right? Your dad's a famous football player, right? The son, this. I didn't know. I mean, obviously I know Nas is a brilliant artist. I had no idea the connection was that his dad was that level of brilliant. I thought his dad, I didn't know it was that level of brilliant that Quincy Jones, within a second, go find a picture of them together. And I'm like, these guys were in San Tropez in the 60s doing anything?

The whole thing was like a profound to me that whole evening of going from The Color Purple to Olu Dara, and then reflecting on the fact that Nas comes from this great lineage of talent. Yeah, they come from Mississippi, my pops. He comes from Natchez, Mississippi, and his dad was in a band, and it's just music in the family. Yeah. It's crazy. It's crazy. So one more time, Paid In Full. PaidInFullFoundation.org. All your money goes directly to the artists. Two and a half times, put up that bread.

Imagine two and a half times to one. And it is, everybody who's ever been to it will tell you it's the greatest charitable event in the world. Like there's nothing like it. You will, I guarantee nobody's ever gone and not had a great time, and a time that will be a memory for the rest of your life. Ooh, ooh, all right. That's a wrap on that. That's a wrap. All right. Thank you, guys. That was great. Thanks for listening to this episode of the A16Z Podcast.

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