Why Nobody is Having Sex Anymore (& why it matters) - Dr Debra Soh

Is people having less sex a big deal? Is people having less sex a big deal? >> It is a big deal. Well, ask anyone who's >> It is a big deal. Well, ask anyone who's >> It is a big deal. Well, ask anyone who's not having sex if it's a big deal. I not having sex if it's a big deal. I not having sex if it's a big deal. I think they'll tell you. Yeah, it is a think they'll tell you. Yeah, it is a think they'll tell you. Yeah, it is a problem, especially considering that it problem, especially considering that it problem, especially considering that it is young men who are typically in the is young men who are typically in the is young men who are typically in the their prime and at the peak of their their prime and at the peak of their their prime and at the peak of their sexual drive. So, not only is it, I sexual drive. So, not only is it, I sexual drive. So, not only is it, I think, quite frustrating for them, but think, quite frustrating for them, but think, quite frustrating for them, but also also also when you're in a situation like that when you're in a situation like that when you're in a situation like that where you're struggling and it's not where you're struggling and it's not where you're struggling and it's not just about the sex, it's also about the just about the sex, it's also about the just about the sex, it's also about the connection and the emotional intimacy connection and the emotional intimacy connection and the emotional intimacy and the larger feeling of connectedness and the larger feeling of connectedness and the larger feeling of connectedness and community. So, um, sexion is very and community. So, um, sexion is very and community. So, um, sexion is very much about the sex recession and the much about the sex recession and the much about the sex recession and the fact that young people, millennials and fact that young people, millennials and fact that young people, millennials and Gen Z in particular, are having less sex Gen Z in particular, are having less sex Gen Z in particular, are having less sex than previous generations. And I was than previous generations. And I was than previous generations. And I was skeptical at first. I thought that this skeptical at first. I thought that this skeptical at first. I thought that this talk about the sex recession and talk about the sex recession and talk about the sex recession and sexlessness was overblown. But after I sexlessness was overblown. But after I sexlessness was overblown. But after I sat down, I got a chance to go through sat down, I got a chance to go through sat down, I got a chance to go through the data myself, look at the media the data myself, look at the media the data myself, look at the media reportage, talk to people, and we see reportage, talk to people, and we see reportage, talk to people, and we see consistently with multiple data sets consistently with multiple data sets consistently with multiple data sets that one in three men and one in five that one in three men and one in five that one in three men and one in five women have not had sex in the past 12 women have not had sex in the past 12 women have not had sex in the past 12 months, which is a large number of months, which is a large number of months, which is a large number of people. And so I was interested with people. And so I was interested with people. And so I was interested with this book, what is taking the place of this book, what is taking the place of this book, what is taking the place of sex sex sex >> and what what does that say about where >> and what what does that say about where >> and what what does that say about where we're headed in the future? we're headed in the future? we're headed in the future? >> How different is modern sexual activity >> How different is modern sexual activity >> How different is modern sexual activity to what we understand about the past? to what we understand about the past? to what we understand about the past? >> Well, in terms of say the outlets that >> Well, in terms of say the outlets that >> Well, in terms of say the outlets that we have available. So the one question we have available. So the one question we have available. So the one question has been is sex on the decline or is it has been is sex on the decline or is it has been is sex on the decline or is it that other outlets are taking the place that other outlets are taking the place that other outlets are taking the place like porn, Muslim masturbation, um like porn, Muslim masturbation, um like porn, Muslim masturbation, um things like Only Fans or now AI things like Only Fans or now AI things like Only Fans or now AI companion. So each of these subjects companion. So each of these subjects companion. So each of these subjects have a different chapter in the book to have a different chapter in the book to have a different chapter in the book to themselves and in myself explaining themselves and in myself explaining themselves and in myself explaining trying to understand um what the trend trying to understand um what the trend trying to understand um what the trend is about. Is it convincing? I test them is about. Is it convincing? I test them is about. Is it convincing? I test them out myself which was a lot of fun in out myself which was a lot of fun in out myself which was a lot of fun in many cases. Um going through the many cases. Um going through the many cases. Um going through the scientific research in terms of what we scientific research in terms of what we scientific research in terms of what we do know about these technologies and do know about these technologies and do know about these technologies and then also talking about the evolutionary then also talking about the evolutionary then also talking about the evolutionary biology and psychology that is biology and psychology that is biology and psychology that is underpinning them. So what makes these underpinning them. So what makes these underpinning them. So what makes these technologies alluring to human beings technologies alluring to human beings technologies alluring to human beings and why is it that it's potentially and why is it that it's potentially and why is it that it's potentially dangerous or distracting us from real dangerous or distracting us from real dangerous or distracting us from real life sex? How different is the amount of life sex? How different is the amount of life sex? How different is the amount of sex, person sex that modern people are sex, person sex that modern people are sex, person sex that modern people are having compared with what we understand having compared with what we understand having compared with what we understand about the past? about the past? about the past? >> Well, everyone across the board is >> Well, everyone across the board is >> Well, everyone across the board is having less sex. So, regardless of having less sex. So, regardless of having less sex. So, regardless of whether you are married or in a whether you are married or in a whether you are married or in a relationship or single um it's in relationship or single um it's in relationship or single um it's in eastern countries, western countries, eastern countries, western countries, eastern countries, western countries, basically all developed countries and basically all developed countries and basically all developed countries and all age cohorts, but as I mentioned, all age cohorts, but as I mentioned, all age cohorts, but as I mentioned, most uh more specifically among young most uh more specifically among young most uh more specifically among young people. But your question earlier about people. But your question earlier about people. But your question earlier about you know is it taking the place of you know is it taking the place of you know is it taking the place of potentially masturbation or other potentially masturbation or other potentially masturbation or other outlets or other sexual outlets. Um and outlets or other sexual outlets. Um and outlets or other sexual outlets. Um and if you look at studies that are asking if you look at studies that are asking if you look at studies that are asking about adolescent sexuality. So this is a about adolescent sexuality. So this is a about adolescent sexuality. So this is a understandably uh uncomfortable subject understandably uh uncomfortable subject understandably uh uncomfortable subject right to think about adolescent sexual right to think about adolescent sexual right to think about adolescent sexual awakening but they had parental consent. awakening but they had parental consent. awakening but they had parental consent. So it's a legitimate study and what they So it's a legitimate study and what they So it's a legitimate study and what they found it is even among adolescents they found it is even among adolescents they found it is even among adolescents they are having lower rates of masturbation are having lower rates of masturbation are having lower rates of masturbation and across the board with everyone less and across the board with everyone less and across the board with everyone less partnered sex less so less um partnered sex less so less um partnered sex less so less um intercourse less anal sex less all types intercourse less anal sex less all types intercourse less anal sex less all types of sex oral sex um partner masturbation of sex oral sex um partner masturbation of sex oral sex um partner masturbation I said solo masturbation as well so I said solo masturbation as well so I said solo masturbation as well so across the board there's been this across the board there's been this across the board there's been this decline so it's not that people are just decline so it's not that people are just decline so it's not that people are just preferring masturbation although I do preferring masturbation although I do preferring masturbation although I do think that is something that is think that is something that is think that is something that is happening especially when we look at happening especially when we look at happening especially when we look at pornography and pornography and pornography and >> yeah girlfriends and boyfriends and that >> yeah girlfriends and boyfriends and that >> yeah girlfriends and boyfriends and that type of thing. But it seems like there's type of thing. But it seems like there's type of thing. But it seems like there's something else um there's a larger something else um there's a larger something else um there's a larger phenomenon and I I also speak to the phenomenon and I I also speak to the phenomenon and I I also speak to the role of endocrine disruptors uh in one role of endocrine disruptors uh in one role of endocrine disruptors uh in one chapter because I think there's chapter because I think there's chapter because I think there's something else biologically happening. something else biologically happening. something else biologically happening. >> So it's not just that the pie of sexual >> So it's not just that the pie of sexual >> So it's not just that the pie of sexual activity has been redistributed from activity has been redistributed from activity has been redistributed from person on person to solo person or person on person to solo person or person on person to solo person or person with machine or person with doll person with machine or person with doll person with machine or person with doll or whatever. It's that the overall size or whatever. It's that the overall size or whatever. It's that the overall size of the pie has gotten smaller too. there of the pie has gotten smaller too. there of the pie has gotten smaller too. there is less sexual activity happening is less sexual activity happening is less sexual activity happening as a an aggregate. as a an aggregate. as a an aggregate. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That seems to be the case. And >> Yeah. That seems to be the case. And >> Yeah. That seems to be the case. And what I find interesting as you mentioned what I find interesting as you mentioned what I find interesting as you mentioned with like dolls and robots with the with like dolls and robots with the with like dolls and robots with the technology improving over time, I didn't technology improving over time, I didn't technology improving over time, I didn't think this was going to be the case. I think this was going to be the case. I think this was going to be the case. I always thought people would prefer in always thought people would prefer in always thought people would prefer in person real life sex, but I'm beginning person real life sex, but I'm beginning person real life sex, but I'm beginning to think people are actually preferring to think people are actually preferring to think people are actually preferring these solo methods. And it's potentially these solo methods. And it's potentially these solo methods. And it's potentially dangerous if it comes to the point where dangerous if it comes to the point where dangerous if it comes to the point where we have these surrogates like robots we have these surrogates like robots we have these surrogates like robots where you can implant an AI and they are where you can implant an AI and they are where you can implant an AI and they are no different from a real life person. I no different from a real life person. I no different from a real life person. I really think people are eventually going really think people are eventually going really think people are eventually going to some people will be turning that way to some people will be turning that way to some people will be turning that way but it's going to be much more popular but it's going to be much more popular but it's going to be much more popular than I had anticipated. than I had anticipated. than I had anticipated. >> When did the sex recession start in your >> When did the sex recession start in your >> When did the sex recession start in your opinion? opinion? opinion? >> It's been documented for probably the >> It's been documented for probably the >> It's been documented for probably the last 30 years or so. like the '9s is was last 30 years or so. like the '9s is was last 30 years or so. like the '9s is was when it really started to taper a little when it really started to taper a little when it really started to taper a little bit, but it's been the most I'd say bit, but it's been the most I'd say bit, but it's been the most I'd say prominent in the last 20 years. Um, co prominent in the last 20 years. Um, co prominent in the last 20 years. Um, co definitely played a role in making definitely played a role in making definitely played a role in making things worse, but it was on it was things worse, but it was on it was things worse, but it was on it was happening before that. So, the internet happening before that. So, the internet happening before that. So, the internet I think is a big part of what's I think is a big part of what's I think is a big part of what's happening. Smartphones as well, social happening. Smartphones as well, social happening. Smartphones as well, social media. So sadly, social media is media. So sadly, social media is media. So sadly, social media is supposed to make us more connected and supposed to make us more connected and supposed to make us more connected and it's uh if anything seems to have made it's uh if anything seems to have made it's uh if anything seems to have made us more divided even outside of the the us more divided even outside of the the us more divided even outside of the the realm of sexuality. I think in terms of realm of sexuality. I think in terms of realm of sexuality. I think in terms of politically, in terms of men and women, politically, in terms of men and women, politically, in terms of men and women, in terms of even subcultures on the in terms of even subcultures on the in terms of even subcultures on the internet, just everyone seems to be internet, just everyone seems to be internet, just everyone seems to be fighting with each other and hating each fighting with each other and hating each fighting with each other and hating each other. other. other. >> Um so I think that's feeding into it as >> Um so I think that's feeding into it as >> Um so I think that's feeding into it as well. there's this larger like political well. there's this larger like political well. there's this larger like political um hatred that's happening between men um hatred that's happening between men um hatred that's happening between men and women that's also fermenting this and women that's also fermenting this and women that's also fermenting this decline in sex because if you hate the decline in sex because if you hate the decline in sex because if you hate the opposite sex, it's going to be very opposite sex, it's going to be very opposite sex, it's going to be very difficult to want to have a relationship difficult to want to have a relationship difficult to want to have a relationship with them or to date them. with them or to date them. with them or to date them. >> I had some stats I wanted to read out to >> I had some stats I wanted to read out to >> I had some stats I wanted to read out to you. One in eight 26 year olds are a you. One in eight 26 year olds are a you. One in eight 26 year olds are a virgin. 24% had no sex in the past year, virgin. 24% had no sex in the past year, virgin. 24% had no sex in the past year, about double the rate of 20 uh 2010. about double the rate of 20 uh 2010. about double the rate of 20 uh 2010. Among men from 18 to 24, around one in Among men from 18 to 24, around one in Among men from 18 to 24, around one in three report no sexual activity in the three report no sexual activity in the three report no sexual activity in the past year. 26% of US adults reported no past year. 26% of US adults reported no past year. 26% of US adults reported no sex in 2021. 37% of adults having weekly sex in 2021. 37% of adults having weekly sex in 2021. 37% of adults having weekly sex is down from 55% in 1990. 37% weekly sex is down from 55% in 1990. 37% weekly sex is down from 55% in 1990. 37% weekly down from 55%. 37% of Gen Z had no sex down from 55%. 37% of Gen Z had no sex down from 55%. 37% of Gen Z had no sex in the last month versus 19% of in the last month versus 19% of in the last month versus 19% of millennials. So even when we're talking millennials. So even when we're talking millennials. So even when we're talking millennials haven't got it, you know, millennials haven't got it, you know, millennials haven't got it, you know, there's a big jump again. 48% of married there's a big jump again. 48% of married there's a big jump again. 48% of married couples had no sex in the past month. couples had no sex in the past month. couples had no sex in the past month. And the uh dead bedroom subreddit is And the uh dead bedroom subreddit is And the uh dead bedroom subreddit is just cranking at the moment. But this just cranking at the moment. But this just cranking at the moment. But this this is my favorite one. This is my this is my favorite one. This is my this is my favorite one. This is my favorite one by far. Survey of Gen Z favorite one by far. Survey of Gen Z favorite one by far. Survey of Gen Z found 67% would prioritize a good found 67% would prioritize a good found 67% would prioritize a good night's sleep over sex. night's sleep over sex. night's sleep over sex. >> Yeah, I'm not surprised and not >> Yeah, I'm not surprised and not >> Yeah, I'm not surprised and not surprised. surprised. surprised. >> You like a good night's sleep. >> You like a good night's sleep. >> You like a good night's sleep. >> Well, that too. But the fact that Yeah. >> Well, that too. But the fact that Yeah. >> Well, that too. But the fact that Yeah. This is such a common trend and it This is such a common trend and it This is such a common trend and it started I mean 2016 was when the first started I mean 2016 was when the first started I mean 2016 was when the first really big study came out showing this really big study came out showing this really big study came out showing this and at the time I thought this is and at the time I thought this is and at the time I thought this is probably a fluke it's probably one time probably a fluke it's probably one time probably a fluke it's probably one time thing but more and more it just thing but more and more it just thing but more and more it just consistently right it's like so many so consistently right it's like so many so consistently right it's like so many so many data sources are showing the same many data sources are showing the same many data sources are showing the same thing it's very concerning I do think thing it's very concerning I do think thing it's very concerning I do think mental health is another big part of it mental health is another big part of it mental health is another big part of it right when people are right when people are right when people are >> I think people are very exhausted right >> I think people are very exhausted right >> I think people are very exhausted right day-to-day life but it's also lacking day-to-day life but it's also lacking day-to-day life but it's also lacking prioritization of sex these other prioritization of sex these other prioritization of sex these other replacements for sex are taking the replacements for sex are taking the replacements for sex are taking the place because they're easier place because they're easier place because they're easier >> and Then globally 5% of people are >> and Then globally 5% of people are >> and Then globally 5% of people are depressed right now. So if you're depressed right now. So if you're depressed right now. So if you're depressed or you're anxious like Gen Z depressed or you're anxious like Gen Z depressed or you're anxious like Gen Z is is uh half of Gen Z has a diagnosed is is uh half of Gen Z has a diagnosed is is uh half of Gen Z has a diagnosed mental disorder and of them 90% have mental disorder and of them 90% have mental disorder and of them 90% have anxiety. There's a lot of anxious Gen anxiety. There's a lot of anxious Gen anxiety. There's a lot of anxious Gen Zers. And so if you're anxious and Zers. And so if you're anxious and Zers. And so if you're anxious and depressed your last thing you're going depressed your last thing you're going depressed your last thing you're going to want to do is go out and meet people, to want to do is go out and meet people, to want to do is go out and meet people, sit down, have a date, potentially face sit down, have a date, potentially face sit down, have a date, potentially face rejection, have to be entertaining, you rejection, have to be entertaining, you rejection, have to be entertaining, you know, loss of motivation, know, loss of motivation, know, loss of motivation, >> feeling very self-conscious, all of this >> feeling very self-conscious, all of this >> feeling very self-conscious, all of this stuff. So like it's multiaceted in terms stuff. So like it's multiaceted in terms stuff. So like it's multiaceted in terms of I think all of the factors that are of I think all of the factors that are of I think all of the factors that are leading people to decide instead, you leading people to decide instead, you leading people to decide instead, you know, I'd rather just stay at home and know, I'd rather just stay at home and know, I'd rather just stay at home and swipe on apps even if I'm not meeting swipe on apps even if I'm not meeting swipe on apps even if I'm not meeting anybody or anybody or anybody or >> sleep. Yeah. Sleep >> sleep. Yeah. Sleep >> sleep. Yeah. Sleep >> or sleep. >> or sleep. >> or sleep. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> What's happening with hypergamy? >> What's happening with hypergamy? >> What's happening with hypergamy? >> Hypergamy has taken on a life of its >> Hypergamy has taken on a life of its >> Hypergamy has taken on a life of its own, I think, in internet culture. So own, I think, in internet culture. So own, I think, in internet culture. So it's this I from a research perspective it's this I from a research perspective it's this I from a research perspective or scientific perspective, it's the idea or scientific perspective, it's the idea or scientific perspective, it's the idea that women tend to want to date or marry that women tend to want to date or marry that women tend to want to date or marry men who are at the same level of success men who are at the same level of success men who are at the same level of success or who are more successful than they or who are more successful than they or who are more successful than they are. So women typically marry up and so are. So women typically marry up and so are. So women typically marry up and so yes this is true. I think in some ways yes this is true. I think in some ways yes this is true. I think in some ways it's gone a little bit off the rails it's gone a little bit off the rails it's gone a little bit off the rails because you know I write in sexion about because you know I write in sexion about because you know I write in sexion about 3 sixes rule. So the idea that women 3 sixes rule. So the idea that women 3 sixes rule. So the idea that women look for men who are six feet or taller look for men who are six feet or taller look for men who are six feet or taller who make six figures or more and who who make six figures or more and who who make six figures or more and who have a 6- in penis. Can I say penis on have a 6- in penis. Can I say penis on have a 6- in penis. Can I say penis on your podcast? your podcast? your podcast? >> You can say penis if you like. >> You can say penis if you like. >> You can say penis if you like. >> Every other every other media outlet >> Every other every other media outlet >> Every other every other media outlet I've been like is it okay if I say this? I've been like is it okay if I say this? I've been like is it okay if I say this? You can bleed it out. So or manhood. So You can bleed it out. So or manhood. So You can bleed it out. So or manhood. So basically if a man does not meet those basically if a man does not meet those basically if a man does not meet those criteria, he's not considered worthy of criteria, he's not considered worthy of criteria, he's not considered worthy of your time in say the internet dating your time in say the internet dating your time in say the internet dating culture for women. culture for women. culture for women. >> And I do like I mean none of those >> And I do like I mean none of those >> And I do like I mean none of those things really correlate with success in things really correlate with success in things really correlate with success in a relationship or marriage. So when you a relationship or marriage. So when you a relationship or marriage. So when you do the calculations as I have you know do the calculations as I have you know do the calculations as I have you know it comes down to like this tiny tiny it comes down to like this tiny tiny it comes down to like this tiny tiny percentage and then you have to also percentage and then you have to also percentage and then you have to also take into account is he nice to you? Do take into account is he nice to you? Do take into account is he nice to you? Do you have chemistry? Do you have things you have chemistry? Do you have things you have chemistry? Do you have things in common? Can you have a conversation? in common? Can you have a conversation? in common? Can you have a conversation? Does your conversation last more than Does your conversation last more than Does your conversation last more than like 5 seconds? you know, so like the like 5 seconds? you know, so like the like 5 seconds? you know, so like the more important factors whittle it down more important factors whittle it down more important factors whittle it down even smaller to even smaller of a even smaller to even smaller of a even smaller to even smaller of a percentage. So I think women who are percentage. So I think women who are percentage. So I think women who are abiding by these criteria may be missing abiding by these criteria may be missing abiding by these criteria may be missing uh the bigger picture. uh the bigger picture. uh the bigger picture. >> How many women do you think are abiding >> How many women do you think are abiding >> How many women do you think are abiding by the 3 sixes rule? by the 3 sixes rule? by the 3 sixes rule? >> So it's interesting because when you >> So it's interesting because when you >> So it's interesting because when you look at the internet and what's on look at the internet and what's on look at the internet and what's on social media, this is something that social media, this is something that social media, this is something that women are really pushing forward. I I women are really pushing forward. I I women are really pushing forward. I I question, but at the same time, having question, but at the same time, having question, but at the same time, having talked to a lot of men about what dating talked to a lot of men about what dating talked to a lot of men about what dating is like nowadays, they from what I've is like nowadays, they from what I've is like nowadays, they from what I've been told, women have really unrealistic been told, women have really unrealistic been told, women have really unrealistic standards in terms of what they're standards in terms of what they're standards in terms of what they're looking for. looking for. looking for. >> But I would also say, you know, social >> But I would also say, you know, social >> But I would also say, you know, social media has made men want to date like media has made men want to date like media has made men want to date like super hot, you know, women who may or super hot, you know, women who may or super hot, you know, women who may or may not look like their photos may be may not look like their photos may be may not look like their photos may be super photo uh photo edited and really super photo uh photo edited and really super photo uh photo edited and really perfect looking, but may or may not look perfect looking, but may or may not look perfect looking, but may or may not look like in real life or might have a ton of like in real life or might have a ton of like in real life or might have a ton of procedures as I have a chapter on procedures as I have a chapter on procedures as I have a chapter on plastic surgery. So I think both sexes plastic surgery. So I think both sexes plastic surgery. So I think both sexes have very unrealistic expectations of have very unrealistic expectations of have very unrealistic expectations of what they want. Um but like anything what they want. Um but like anything what they want. Um but like anything like evolutionary psychology and biology like evolutionary psychology and biology like evolutionary psychology and biology is not prescriptive. It's not saying is not prescriptive. It's not saying is not prescriptive. It's not saying this is what you should do. It's just this is what you should do. It's just this is what you should do. It's just basically generalizing or noticing basically generalizing or noticing basically generalizing or noticing trends in behavior or that explains trends in behavior or that explains trends in behavior or that explains mating psychology and like anything the mating psychology and like anything the mating psychology and like anything the internet takes it and just like runs internet takes it and just like runs internet takes it and just like runs away with it. away with it. away with it. >> I don't know. I my favorite place for >> I don't know. I my favorite place for >> I don't know. I my favorite place for doing mating research is the pool at doing mating research is the pool at doing mating research is the pool at Soho House here in Austin. And uh it Soho House here in Austin. And uh it Soho House here in Austin. And uh it honestly it's it's [ __ ] ground zero honestly it's it's [ __ ] ground zero honestly it's it's [ __ ] ground zero for looking at mating dynamics. And um for looking at mating dynamics. And um for looking at mating dynamics. And um a lot of the time I'd be there with a lot of the time I'd be there with a lot of the time I'd be there with friends and and there'd be a group of friends and and there'd be a group of friends and and there'd be a group of girls on the bed next to us and they you girls on the bed next to us and they you girls on the bed next to us and they you know be 24 or something and they paying know be 24 or something and they paying know be 24 or something and they paying for a so house membership and it's a for a so house membership and it's a for a so house membership and it's a couple of grand a year so they're couple of grand a year so they're couple of grand a year so they're probably educated and earning well or probably educated and earning well or probably educated and earning well or whatever. They have never said oh it's whatever. They have never said oh it's whatever. They have never said oh it's because of the size of some guy's penis. because of the size of some guy's penis. because of the size of some guy's penis. Now you can say oh they um wouldn't want Now you can say oh they um wouldn't want Now you can say oh they um wouldn't want to publicly state that. that's kind of a to publicly state that. that's kind of a to publicly state that. that's kind of a bit uncouthed. That's going to make them bit uncouthed. That's going to make them bit uncouthed. That's going to make them seem a little bit silly. seem a little bit silly. seem a little bit silly. The data that I saw from Mack and Murphy The data that I saw from Mack and Murphy The data that I saw from Mack and Murphy last he was sat that seed suggests that last he was sat that seed suggests that last he was sat that seed suggests that if you're a guy with a 6-in erect penis, if you're a guy with a 6-in erect penis, if you're a guy with a 6-in erect penis, you're in like the 97th percentile. So, you're in like the 97th percentile. So, you're in like the 97th percentile. So, it's a it's bigger than basically any it's a it's bigger than basically any it's a it's bigger than basically any woman has ever seen. woman has ever seen. woman has ever seen. >> Um, so I I get the sense that that's not >> Um, so I I get the sense that that's not >> Um, so I I get the sense that that's not an issue. The six-pack abs, if you an issue. The six-pack abs, if you an issue. The six-pack abs, if you switch it out for that, switch it out for that, switch it out for that, >> which is a guy that's sort of muscular >> which is a guy that's sort of muscular >> which is a guy that's sort of muscular and in good condition, I could see that and in good condition, I could see that and in good condition, I could see that a little bit more. I think I think if a little bit more. I think I think if a little bit more. I think I think if women actually saw like full 6-in women actually saw like full 6-in women actually saw like full 6-in penises more, they would actually be penises more, they would actually be penises more, they would actually be like I mean 98th percentile. like I mean 98th percentile. like I mean 98th percentile. >> Well, yeah, cuz the average penis is 5 >> Well, yeah, cuz the average penis is 5 >> Well, yeah, cuz the average penis is 5 in. But what's interesting is most women in. But what's interesting is most women in. But what's interesting is most women say they want a 6- in penis. Most men say they want a 6- in penis. Most men say they want a 6- in penis. Most men think women want a 7 in penis. >> And most men think that they have a six >> And most men think that they have a six inch penis. Probably inch penis. Probably inch penis. Probably >> most men are actually harder than >> most men are actually harder than >> most men are actually harder than themselves. that I didn't need. themselves. that I didn't need. themselves. that I didn't need. >> Oh, they have a they think they have a >> Oh, they have a they think they have a >> Oh, they have a they think they have a 4-in penis. 4-in penis. 4-in penis. >> They have a 5- in penis. >> They have a 5- in penis. >> They have a 5- in penis. >> They women want a six inch penis and men >> They women want a six inch penis and men >> They women want a six inch penis and men think that women want a seven inch think that women want a seven inch think that women want a seven inch penis. Fantastic. penis. Fantastic. penis. Fantastic. >> So, that's the thing else with >> So, that's the thing else with >> So, that's the thing else with hypergamy. I feel men are really I don't hypergamy. I feel men are really I don't hypergamy. I feel men are really I don't want to say hard on themselves but want to say hard on themselves but want to say hard on themselves but difficult ch they challenge themselves difficult ch they challenge themselves difficult ch they challenge themselves more than they need to. more than they need to. more than they need to. >> Keep using the word hard. It's fine. Um >> Keep using the word hard. It's fine. Um >> Keep using the word hard. It's fine. Um because they think like women want again because they think like women want again because they think like women want again like I read about looks maxing men think like I read about looks maxing men think like I read about looks maxing men think that women want this super hot Chad guy that women want this super hot Chad guy that women want this super hot Chad guy that he has to have perfect bone that he has to have perfect bone that he has to have perfect bone structure that he has to have all these structure that he has to have all these structure that he has to have all these metrics right especially guys are metrics right especially guys are metrics right especially guys are getting penal injections in terms of getting penal injections in terms of getting penal injections in terms of filler or they're getting like filler or they're getting like filler or they're getting like enlargement and enlargement and enlargement and >> and women I mean yes some women do like >> and women I mean yes some women do like >> and women I mean yes some women do like those things but by and large most women those things but by and large most women those things but by and large most women care more about resources and protection care more about resources and protection care more about resources and protection and are you a good person so I think and are you a good person so I think and are you a good person so I think hypergamy has also gone off the rails a hypergamy has also gone off the rails a hypergamy has also gone off the rails a bit in that way in that And men think bit in that way in that And men think bit in that way in that And men think that women just keep wanting more and that women just keep wanting more and that women just keep wanting more and more and more and better and better and more and more and better and better and more and more and better and better and better. And to some extent that's true, better. And to some extent that's true, better. And to some extent that's true, but I think also like you have to we but I think also like you have to we but I think also like you have to we have to give love some credit as well. have to give love some credit as well. have to give love some credit as well. And if you're happy with someone, I And if you're happy with someone, I And if you're happy with someone, I don't think the other person is going to don't think the other person is going to don't think the other person is going to have a reason to go elsewhere. have a reason to go elsewhere. have a reason to go elsewhere. >> Yeah, I I get this and the internet it >> Yeah, I I get this and the internet it >> Yeah, I I get this and the internet it makes a lot of sense on the internet makes a lot of sense on the internet makes a lot of sense on the internet because it's very easy to put into a because it's very easy to put into a because it's very easy to put into a spreadsheet. I can put my height, I can spreadsheet. I can put my height, I can spreadsheet. I can put my height, I can put my penis length, which I do all the put my penis length, which I do all the put my penis length, which I do all the time. Uh I I can I can put all their time. Uh I I can I can put all their time. Uh I I can I can put all their objective metrics and objective metrics and objective metrics and >> it's kind of like that is having a >> it's kind of like that is having a >> it's kind of like that is having a boyfriend cringe now article. Uh very boyfriend cringe now article. Uh very boyfriend cringe now article. Uh very quickly if you go outside you realize quickly if you go outside you realize quickly if you go outside you realize that is having a boyfriend cringe is that is having a boyfriend cringe is that is having a boyfriend cringe is only true on the internet in the same only true on the internet in the same only true on the internet in the same way as the Kardashians uh made skinny way as the Kardashians uh made skinny way as the Kardashians uh made skinny not a fad as cringe. Like it just it not a fad as cringe. Like it just it not a fad as cringe. Like it just it really doesn't exist if you go out into really doesn't exist if you go out into really doesn't exist if you go out into the real world. If you go and sit around the real world. If you go and sit around the real world. If you go and sit around Soho House Pool, for the most part, the Soho House Pool, for the most part, the Soho House Pool, for the most part, the issues that at least I hear from women issues that at least I hear from women issues that at least I hear from women and I hear at my live shows is and I hear at my live shows is and I hear at my live shows is guys aren't ready to commit and they're guys aren't ready to commit and they're guys aren't ready to commit and they're not sufficiently emotionally educated not sufficiently emotionally educated not sufficiently emotionally educated and they don't seem very balanced and and they don't seem very balanced and and they don't seem very balanced and they don't really have their life they don't really have their life they don't really have their life together. They don't have a mission and together. They don't have a mission and together. They don't have a mission and they don't know where they're going. they don't know where they're going. they don't know where they're going. Now, I think that a lot of that is uh Now, I think that a lot of that is uh Now, I think that a lot of that is uh maybe publicly acceptable ways of maybe publicly acceptable ways of maybe publicly acceptable ways of putting a more difficult to define uh putting a more difficult to define uh putting a more difficult to define uh sense that there just wasn't chemistry. sense that there just wasn't chemistry. sense that there just wasn't chemistry. Something wasn't quite right. Why? It's Something wasn't quite right. Why? It's Something wasn't quite right. Why? It's like, well, if you're a postgrad girl like, well, if you're a postgrad girl like, well, if you're a postgrad girl trying to date a blue collar guy, there trying to date a blue collar guy, there trying to date a blue collar guy, there might be a little sense of socioeconomic might be a little sense of socioeconomic might be a little sense of socioeconomic imbalance going on here. And uh have you imbalance going on here. And uh have you imbalance going on here. And uh have you heard me talk about the tall girl heard me talk about the tall girl heard me talk about the tall girl problem by giving you this one? problem by giving you this one? problem by giving you this one? >> I have the high heel problems. >> I have the high heel problems. >> I have the high heel problems. >> Yeah. [ __ ] Scott Galloway. Scott >> Yeah. [ __ ] Scott Galloway. Scott >> Yeah. [ __ ] Scott Galloway. Scott Galloway keeps calling it the high heel Galloway keeps calling it the high heel Galloway keeps calling it the high heel effect because he's ancient and has he's effect because he's ancient and has he's effect because he's ancient and has he's he's demented. It's the tall girl he's demented. It's the tall girl he's demented. It's the tall girl problem. And then he stole it from me problem. And then he stole it from me problem. And then he stole it from me and started talking about it on CNN and and started talking about it on CNN and and started talking about it on CNN and misnamed it. And now that Anyway, misnamed it. And now that Anyway, misnamed it. And now that Anyway, >> tell me tell me Chris, what is the tall >> tell me tell me Chris, what is the tall >> tell me tell me Chris, what is the tall girl problem? Look, it's it's exactly girl problem? Look, it's it's exactly girl problem? Look, it's it's exactly what you're talking about, which is if what you're talking about, which is if what you're talking about, which is if you have women that are you have women that are you have women that are socioeconomically more successful, you socioeconomically more successful, you socioeconomically more successful, you have an everinccreasing group of high have an everinccreasing group of high have an everinccreasing group of high performing women and an ever decreasing performing women and an ever decreasing performing women and an ever decreasing group of ultra high performing men that group of ultra high performing men that group of ultra high performing men that are above and across from them, that are above and across from them, that are above and across from them, that gives most men this sort of invisibility gives most men this sort of invisibility gives most men this sort of invisibility cloak that means that they're not seen cloak that means that they're not seen cloak that means that they're not seen by women as potential protector by women as potential protector by women as potential protector providers. Uh, it providers. Uh, it providers. Uh, it >> creates a large cohort of women that did >> creates a large cohort of women that did >> creates a large cohort of women that did everything right. I went to university. everything right. I went to university. everything right. I went to university. I got the job. I pursued my career. or I got the job. I pursued my career. or I got the job. I pursued my career. or I've got financial independence and I'm I've got financial independence and I'm I've got financial independence and I'm struggling to find any guys that I'm struggling to find any guys that I'm struggling to find any guys that I'm attracted to and I I I can't I can't attracted to and I I I can't I can't attracted to and I I I can't I can't really work out why. And oh, they he's really work out why. And oh, they he's really work out why. And oh, they he's he seems really good, but that guy he seems really good, but that guy he seems really good, but that guy that's in the rarified strata at the top that's in the rarified strata at the top that's in the rarified strata at the top has a wealth of options. So, they're has a wealth of options. So, they're has a wealth of options. So, they're able to use and discard women. And then able to use and discard women. And then able to use and discard women. And then the that really sort of gnarly outcome the that really sort of gnarly outcome the that really sort of gnarly outcome is that is that is that if you have casual sex with somebody if you have casual sex with somebody if you have casual sex with somebody that skews your own uh self um that skews your own uh self um that skews your own uh self um perspective of your mate value. Uh your perspective of your mate value. Uh your perspective of your mate value. Uh your self-referential mate value perspective self-referential mate value perspective self-referential mate value perspective gets a little bit tuned up and you think gets a little bit tuned up and you think gets a little bit tuned up and you think well that's I got it for one night. I well that's I got it for one night. I well that's I got it for one night. I should be able to get it. It's like should be able to get it. It's like should be able to get it. It's like there is a difference between what you there is a difference between what you there is a difference between what you can get on rent and what you can buy. can get on rent and what you can buy. can get on rent and what you can buy. And that um altogether it doesn't make And that um altogether it doesn't make And that um altogether it doesn't make for a very easy environment because for a very easy environment because for a very easy environment because these women don't want to be used and these women don't want to be used and these women don't want to be used and discarded, but they also don't discarded, but they also don't discarded, but they also don't necessarily feel that much resonance necessarily feel that much resonance necessarily feel that much resonance with the guys that are in the cohort of with the guys that are in the cohort of with the guys that are in the cohort of men that are socioeconomically below men that are socioeconomically below men that are socioeconomically below them. them. them. Men that are in relationships where Men that are in relationships where Men that are in relationships where they're not the primary bread winner, they're not the primary bread winner, they're not the primary bread winner, 50% more likely to use erectile 50% more likely to use erectile 50% more likely to use erectile dysfunction medication. uh man loses his dysfunction medication. uh man loses his dysfunction medication. uh man loses his job, likelihood of marriage of divorce job, likelihood of marriage of divorce job, likelihood of marriage of divorce doubles. Woman loses her job, no doubles. Woman loses her job, no doubles. Woman loses her job, no difference in terms of the the difference in terms of the the difference in terms of the the likelihood of divorce. So all of these likelihood of divorce. So all of these likelihood of divorce. So all of these things are kind of raw physics of the things are kind of raw physics of the things are kind of raw physics of the system. And we can say, well, maybe you system. And we can say, well, maybe you system. And we can say, well, maybe you can offset hypergamy. Maybe people are can offset hypergamy. Maybe people are can offset hypergamy. Maybe people are not going to not going to not going to the women are going to learn to value the women are going to learn to value the women are going to learn to value other things in this way. And I I get other things in this way. And I I get other things in this way. And I I get the sense that this is more the literal the sense that this is more the literal the sense that this is more the literal physics of the system like largely physics of the system like largely physics of the system like largely unbreakable. And um I mean that just unbreakable. And um I mean that just unbreakable. And um I mean that just that for coupling for young people that for coupling for young people that for coupling for young people especially given women out earn men by a especially given women out earn men by a especially given women out earn men by a grand and a half per year up to age 30. grand and a half per year up to age 30. grand and a half per year up to age 30. >> One in seven couples now is the woman is >> One in seven couples now is the woman is >> One in seven couples now is the woman is the primary bread winner. the primary bread winner. the primary bread winner. >> Yeah. Yeah. The bottom 40% of male >> Yeah. Yeah. The bottom 40% of male >> Yeah. Yeah. The bottom 40% of male earners and the top 20% of female earners and the top 20% of female earners and the top 20% of female earners are dating uh female primary earners are dating uh female primary earners are dating uh female primary bread winner. So the top quintile for bread winner. So the top quintile for bread winner. So the top quintile for women and the bottom two quintiles for women and the bottom two quintiles for women and the bottom two quintiles for men are dating in the opposite men are dating in the opposite men are dating in the opposite hypogamous direction. Um, just that like hypogamous direction. Um, just that like hypogamous direction. Um, just that like don't even need to talk about the don't even need to talk about the don't even need to talk about the endocrine disruptors and the desire for endocrine disruptors and the desire for endocrine disruptors and the desire for sex and porn and all the rest of it. sex and porn and all the rest of it. sex and porn and all the rest of it. Just the coupling, right? Just simply Just the coupling, right? Just simply Just the coupling, right? Just simply the coupling there because I I I'd be the coupling there because I I I'd be the coupling there because I I I'd be interested to know how much hypergamy interested to know how much hypergamy interested to know how much hypergamy plays a role when it comes to a one plays a role when it comes to a one plays a role when it comes to a one night stand. night stand. night stand. >> Well, okay. So, that's a huge thesis of >> Well, okay. So, that's a huge thesis of >> Well, okay. So, that's a huge thesis of my book, this idea that because women my book, this idea that because women my book, this idea that because women are becoming more educated, more are becoming more educated, more are becoming more educated, more financially successful than men, they financially successful than men, they financially successful than men, they have fewer suitable uh bachelors to have fewer suitable uh bachelors to have fewer suitable uh bachelors to choose from. So what you find is that choose from. So what you find is that choose from. So what you find is that very successful very successful very successful >> problem. >> problem. >> problem. >> Well, I I need to coin my own term for >> Well, I I need to coin my own term for >> Well, I I need to coin my own term for this. It's fine. And I'll go on CNN and this. It's fine. And I'll go on CNN and this. It's fine. And I'll go on CNN and and and and >> and then misquote. Call it something >> and then misquote. Call it something >> and then misquote. Call it something else. Call it something else. And then else. Call it something else. And then else. Call it something else. And then you and Scott can have a [ __ ] battle you and Scott can have a [ __ ] battle you and Scott can have a [ __ ] battle to the end of time to work out who can to the end of time to work out who can to the end of time to work out who can misquote me. That's fine. misquote me. That's fine. misquote me. That's fine. >> So what happens as you're saying is that >> So what happens as you're saying is that >> So what happens as you're saying is that there's this smaller pool of very there's this smaller pool of very there's this smaller pool of very successful men who have their pick of successful men who have their pick of successful men who have their pick of the lot who don't are they're the lot who don't are they're the lot who don't are they're disincentivized in terms of settling disincentivized in terms of settling disincentivized in terms of settling down. So if they want, I mean, they can down. So if they want, I mean, they can down. So if they want, I mean, they can have multiple marriages in a row. You have multiple marriages in a row. You have multiple marriages in a row. You will see this happening. So you can't will see this happening. So you can't will see this happening. So you can't have, you know, polygyny, but what have, you know, polygyny, but what have, you know, polygyny, but what you'll have is multiple marriages in a you'll have is multiple marriages in a you'll have is multiple marriages in a row. So they'll marry someone, have row. So they'll marry someone, have row. So they'll marry someone, have children, divorce her, have another children, divorce her, have another children, divorce her, have another marriage, have children, divorce her, go marriage, have children, divorce her, go marriage, have children, divorce her, go on. on. on. >> So, and then what happens is with men's >> So, and then what happens is with men's >> So, and then what happens is with men's uh dual mating strategy is that, you uh dual mating strategy is that, you uh dual mating strategy is that, you know, you have long-term choices and know, you have long-term choices and know, you have long-term choices and short-term options. And so the women who short-term options. And so the women who short-term options. And so the women who fall into the short-term bucket um may fall into the short-term bucket um may fall into the short-term bucket um may erroneously think that they have they erroneously think that they have they erroneously think that they have they are one of the long-term options but men are one of the long-term options but men are one of the long-term options but men very much when they meet someone or meet very much when they meet someone or meet very much when they meet someone or meet a woman they choose which bucket she's a woman they choose which bucket she's a woman they choose which bucket she's going to go into and she's there's not going to go into and she's there's not going to go into and she's there's not much chance of a crossover complex. much chance of a crossover complex. much chance of a crossover complex. >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So in terms of >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So in terms of >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So in terms of hypergamy um and how to fix it I think hypergamy um and how to fix it I think hypergamy um and how to fix it I think getting rid of DEI would be one start. getting rid of DEI would be one start. getting rid of DEI would be one start. So diversity equity inclusion So diversity equity inclusion So diversity equity inclusion initiatives because that actively initiatives because that actively initiatives because that actively penalizes men punishes men for no good penalizes men punishes men for no good penalizes men punishes men for no good reason. And if you are reason. And if you are reason. And if you are >> Is that true? It actively penalizes men >> Is that true? It actively penalizes men >> Is that true? It actively penalizes men as opposed to just lifting up other as opposed to just lifting up other as opposed to just lifting up other groups. groups. groups. >> Yeah. Well, I mean coming from academia, >> Yeah. Well, I mean coming from academia, >> Yeah. Well, I mean coming from academia, I can tell you that they actually have I can tell you that they actually have I can tell you that they actually have job postings. I've seen them myself job postings. I've seen them myself job postings. I've seen them myself where they explicitly will say this job where they explicitly will say this job where they explicitly will say this job is for, you know, a minority or a woman. is for, you know, a minority or a woman. is for, you know, a minority or a woman. You know, basically ruling out white You know, basically ruling out white You know, basically ruling out white men. And um men. And um men. And um >> I'm an immigrant so >> I'm an immigrant so >> I'm an immigrant so >> so it doesn't affect you. But it's it's >> so it doesn't affect you. But it's it's >> so it doesn't affect you. But it's it's crazy. I mean, I've had so many crazy. I mean, I've had so many crazy. I mean, I've had so many colleagues tell me this. So I'm not colleagues tell me this. So I'm not colleagues tell me this. So I'm not academia anymore, but they will tell me academia anymore, but they will tell me academia anymore, but they will tell me the things that they experience um the things that they experience um the things that they experience um behind basically closed doors where if behind basically closed doors where if behind basically closed doors where if they want to apply for something, they want to apply for something, they want to apply for something, they'll be discouraged because they'll they'll be discouraged because they'll they'll be discouraged because they'll say this position is for a woman or for say this position is for a woman or for say this position is for a woman or for a minority, so don't bother applying. So a minority, so don't bother applying. So a minority, so don't bother applying. So this is just one, you know, faction of this is just one, you know, faction of this is just one, you know, faction of society. I my understanding is this society. I my understanding is this society. I my understanding is this happens everywhere. This was very much happens everywhere. This was very much happens everywhere. This was very much in like corporations as well, but I in like corporations as well, but I in like corporations as well, but I think it's been hopefully dialed back a think it's been hopefully dialed back a think it's been hopefully dialed back a little bit right since little bit right since little bit right since >> And your goal here is if you enable men >> And your goal here is if you enable men >> And your goal here is if you enable men to get access socioeconomically that to get access socioeconomically that to get access socioeconomically that allows this imbalance the the tallness allows this imbalance the the tallness allows this imbalance the the tallness of women to the men get to grow tall a of women to the men get to grow tall a of women to the men get to grow tall a little bit taller. little bit taller. little bit taller. >> Right. Right. It's it lets it be a >> Right. Right. It's it lets it be a >> Right. Right. It's it lets it be a little bit more of like a organic little bit more of like a organic little bit more of like a organic outcome. outcome. outcome. >> Isn't it strange? >> Isn't it strange? >> Isn't it strange? There's sort of a zero sum perspective There's sort of a zero sum perspective There's sort of a zero sum perspective of empathy that any support that's given of empathy that any support that's given of empathy that any support that's given to any group is seen as being taken away to any group is seen as being taken away to any group is seen as being taken away from another group, especially one from another group, especially one from another group, especially one that's more deserving. And that if we that's more deserving. And that if we that's more deserving. And that if we support and raise up men, that that support and raise up men, that that support and raise up men, that that means that we're taking it away from means that we're taking it away from means that we're taking it away from some minority or somebody else that some minority or somebody else that some minority or somebody else that should that should deserve it. But should that should deserve it. But should that should deserve it. But if if your goal is to live a happy life, if if your goal is to live a happy life, if if your goal is to live a happy life, if you're not enabling guys, if you're a if you're not enabling guys, if you're a if you're not enabling guys, if you're a girl, woman, and or a mother, right, you girl, woman, and or a mother, right, you girl, woman, and or a mother, right, you don't even need to be in the dating don't even need to be in the dating don't even need to be in the dating pool, a married mother that's exited the pool, a married mother that's exited the pool, a married mother that's exited the dating pool. Presumably, you want your dating pool. Presumably, you want your dating pool. Presumably, you want your daughters to be able to have eligible daughters to be able to have eligible daughters to be able to have eligible partners. partners. partners. >> The very der of eligible men is caused >> The very der of eligible men is caused >> The very der of eligible men is caused by the fact that they're not being given by the fact that they're not being given by the fact that they're not being given this kind of access. Now, it's an this kind of access. Now, it's an this kind of access. Now, it's an interesting one because I don't know if interesting one because I don't know if interesting one because I don't know if men are actually men are actually men are actually that keen about the idea of going to that keen about the idea of going to that keen about the idea of going to university. university. university. >> Well, that's >> Well, that's >> Well, that's >> I don't know how driven they are about >> I don't know how driven they are about >> I don't know how driven they are about about the career thing in quite the same about the career thing in quite the same about the career thing in quite the same way anymore. They are the tales. way anymore. They are the tales. way anymore. They are the tales. >> Part of it, I think, is because of the >> Part of it, I think, is because of the >> Part of it, I think, is because of the DEI and the feminism and that they sense DEI and the feminism and that they sense DEI and the feminism and that they sense that they're not going to get a fair that they're not going to get a fair that they're not going to get a fair chance. you know, if they're being chance. you know, if they're being chance. you know, if they're being taught all through say the education taught all through say the education taught all through say the education system in high school even girls are system in high school even girls are system in high school even girls are getting I've seen I've seen polls where getting I've seen I've seen polls where getting I've seen I've seen polls where they show like male students say they they show like male students say they they show like male students say they feel it's unfair girls get are favored feel it's unfair girls get are favored feel it's unfair girls get are favored by teachers so already they're feeling by teachers so already they're feeling by teachers so already they're feeling you know bad taste in their mouth and you know bad taste in their mouth and you know bad taste in their mouth and then you go to apply university and you then you go to apply university and you then you go to apply university and you you know that this the odds are stacked you know that this the odds are stacked you know that this the odds are stacked against you I do think that I understand against you I do think that I understand against you I do think that I understand why some people especially some women or why some people especially some women or why some people especially some women or more progressive women may be fearful of more progressive women may be fearful of more progressive women may be fearful of allowing men to have a fair chance or to allowing men to have a fair chance or to allowing men to have a fair chance or to roll back some of the advantages that roll back some of the advantages that roll back some of the advantages that have been given to women because they have been given to women because they have been given to women because they fear is this the start of us not being fear is this the start of us not being fear is this the start of us not being allowed to work or not being allowed to allowed to work or not being allowed to allowed to work or not being allowed to pursue education or own property or pursue education or own property or pursue education or own property or things like that. things like that. things like that. >> But I do think I think they have a very >> But I do think I think they have a very >> But I do think I think they have a very misguided idea of what the outcome is misguided idea of what the outcome is misguided idea of what the outcome is going to be because if it continues this going to be because if it continues this going to be because if it continues this way where women are continuing to way where women are continuing to way where women are continuing to outperform men in education, they make outperform men in education, they make outperform men in education, they make more money. Um who are you going to more money. Um who are you going to more money. Um who are you going to date? You know, they think that the men date? You know, they think that the men date? You know, they think that the men because these men have fewer options because these men have fewer options because these men have fewer options that they're all going to be clamoring that they're all going to be clamoring that they're all going to be clamoring for these women, but these women because for these women, but these women because for these women, but these women because they're so educated, they're not want they're so educated, they're not want they're so educated, they're not want anything to do with these guys. Correct. anything to do with these guys. Correct. anything to do with these guys. Correct. Correct. Correct. Correct. >> So, they're all fighting for this >> So, they're all fighting for this >> So, they're all fighting for this smaller pool of men and uh it's it's smaller pool of men and uh it's it's smaller pool of men and uh it's it's going to be vicious. going to be vicious. going to be vicious. >> Yeah. It's not good. In other news, >> Yeah. It's not good. In other news, >> Yeah. It's not good. In other news, you've probably heard me talk about you've probably heard me talk about you've probably heard me talk about Element before, and that's because I am Element before, and that's because I am Element before, and that's because I am frankly dependent on it. Uh and it's how frankly dependent on it. Uh and it's how frankly dependent on it. Uh and it's how I've started my day every single I've started my day every single I've started my day every single morning. This is the best tasting morning. This is the best tasting morning. This is the best tasting hydration drink on the market. 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Right now, you can get a free sample pack of Element's can get a free sample pack of Element's can get a free sample pack of Element's most popular flavors with your first most popular flavors with your first most popular flavors with your first purchase by going to the link in the purchase by going to the link in the purchase by going to the link in the description below, heading to description below, heading to description below, heading to drinklnt.com/modern drinklnt.com/modern drinklnt.com/modern wisdom. That's drinklnt.com/modern wisdom. How's birth control contributed wisdom. How's birth control contributed to this? to this? to this? >> So, uh, birth control has affected >> So, uh, birth control has affected >> So, uh, birth control has affected mating psychology. I'll start with mating psychology. I'll start with mating psychology. I'll start with women. It's because birth control halts women. It's because birth control halts women. It's because birth control halts ovulation. So just write briefly for ovulation. So just write briefly for ovulation. So just write briefly for your audience in case they may not be your audience in case they may not be your audience in case they may not be aware of how birth control works. aware of how birth control works. aware of how birth control works. Ovulation is when women are the most Ovulation is when women are the most Ovulation is when women are the most fertile in their cycle. So that's when fertile in their cycle. So that's when fertile in their cycle. So that's when they be can become pregnant. So that they be can become pregnant. So that they be can become pregnant. So that window is typically around say day 11 to window is typically around say day 11 to window is typically around say day 11 to 16 of your cycle. So your first day of 16 of your cycle. So your first day of 16 of your cycle. So your first day of menstruation is day one and then it goes menstruation is day one and then it goes menstruation is day one and then it goes into you know I I'll leave it at that. into you know I I'll leave it at that. into you know I I'll leave it at that. So basically when you're ovulating So basically when you're ovulating So basically when you're ovulating because you can get pregnant your sexual because you can get pregnant your sexual because you can get pregnant your sexual psychology is um we'll say at its peak. psychology is um we'll say at its peak. psychology is um we'll say at its peak. I think it's a very interesting time to I think it's a very interesting time to I think it's a very interesting time to be studying in terms of women and their be studying in terms of women and their be studying in terms of women and their making decisions because that's when making decisions because that's when making decisions because that's when their decisions decisions about sex have their decisions decisions about sex have their decisions decisions about sex have the greatest potential consequences. So the greatest potential consequences. So the greatest potential consequences. So if you're halting that process in a if you're halting that process in a if you're halting that process in a woman or an entire multiple generations woman or an entire multiple generations woman or an entire multiple generations of women, one in 10 women of um child of women, one in 10 women of um child of women, one in 10 women of um child bearing age is on the pill. So bearing age is on the pill. So bearing age is on the pill. So >> one in 10. >> one in 10. >> one in 10. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> I would thought it would be more. >> I would thought it would be more. >> I would thought it would be more. >> You would think it's more, but it's >> You would think it's more, but it's >> You would think it's more, but it's about 11%. That's in America. about 11%. That's in America. about 11%. That's in America. >> No way. It's only 11%. >> No way. It's only 11%. >> No way. It's only 11%. >> Yeah. According to the CDC, >> Yeah. According to the CDC, >> Yeah. According to the CDC, >> have you encountered that's any type of >> have you encountered that's any type of >> have you encountered that's any type of birth control or just the pill? birth control or just the pill? birth control or just the pill? >> So you could have the implant, the arm >> So you could have the implant, the arm >> So you could have the implant, the arm implant thing, you could have the implant thing, you could have the implant thing, you could have the injection, you could have IUD, you could injection, you could have IUD, you could injection, you could have IUD, you could have marina coil. have marina coil. have marina coil. >> Yeah. All the insect extinction I have >> Yeah. All the insect extinction I have >> Yeah. All the insect extinction I have the statistic regarding like all birth the statistic regarding like all birth the statistic regarding like all birth control but or rather all contraception control but or rather all contraception control but or rather all contraception >> but in terms of the pill specifically. >> but in terms of the pill specifically. >> but in terms of the pill specifically. So, what happens is if you're not So, what happens is if you're not So, what happens is if you're not ovulating, you're basically blunted in ovulating, you're basically blunted in ovulating, you're basically blunted in terms of that sexual interest and that terms of that sexual interest and that terms of that sexual interest and that um signaling because during that time, um signaling because during that time, um signaling because during that time, women have been shown in studies to wear women have been shown in studies to wear women have been shown in studies to wear more provocative clothing. They're more more provocative clothing. They're more more provocative clothing. They're more likely to want to go out to clubs and likely to want to go out to clubs and likely to want to go out to clubs and meet men, to socialize, things like meet men, to socialize, things like meet men, to socialize, things like that, right? To meet partners. And also, that, right? To meet partners. And also, that, right? To meet partners. And also, men can tell when women are ovulating. men can tell when women are ovulating. men can tell when women are ovulating. So, they can tell in terms of a woman's So, they can tell in terms of a woman's So, they can tell in terms of a woman's appearance. They can tell by her scent. appearance. They can tell by her scent. appearance. They can tell by her scent. And men who are in And men who are in And men who are in >> they can tell by the way that they walk. >> they can tell by the way that they walk. >> they can tell by the way that they walk. >> You see that study where they did >> You see that study where they did >> You see that study where they did silhouettes of women walking down the silhouettes of women walking down the silhouettes of women walking down the street? So good. street? So good. street? So good. >> Yeah, it's wild. So, and men in >> Yeah, it's wild. So, and men in >> Yeah, it's wild. So, and men in relationships will show more relationships will show more relationships will show more mateguarding behaviors when their mateguarding behaviors when their mateguarding behaviors when their partner is ovulating if she's not on the partner is ovulating if she's not on the partner is ovulating if she's not on the pill. pill. pill. >> Oh, I didn't know about that. >> Oh, I didn't know about that. >> Oh, I didn't know about that. >> Yeah, he'll call and check up on her. I >> Yeah, he'll call and check up on her. I >> Yeah, he'll call and check up on her. I don't know that these men are don't know that these men are don't know that these men are necessarily consciously aware, but necessarily consciously aware, but necessarily consciously aware, but they're trying to basically, you know, they're trying to basically, you know, they're trying to basically, you know, like see block like see block like see block >> other guys. So, >> other guys. So, >> other guys. So, >> if that's off the table entirely, surely >> if that's off the table entirely, surely >> if that's off the table entirely, surely that's doing something as well to men's that's doing something as well to men's that's doing something as well to men's mating psychology. And so, I think if mating psychology. And so, I think if mating psychology. And so, I think if women want to take the pill, not take women want to take the pill, not take women want to take the pill, not take the pill, that's their choice. But I I the pill, that's their choice. But I I the pill, that's their choice. But I I wish there was was more uh in terms of wish there was was more uh in terms of wish there was was more uh in terms of information for young women, especially information for young women, especially information for young women, especially considering that many young women get on considering that many young women get on considering that many young women get on the pill when they are say teenagers. the pill when they are say teenagers. the pill when they are say teenagers. They're on it for nonsexual purposes. So They're on it for nonsexual purposes. So They're on it for nonsexual purposes. So things like regulating their menstrual things like regulating their menstrual things like regulating their menstrual cycle or say for their skin or whatever cycle or say for their skin or whatever cycle or say for their skin or whatever reason and they I don't think are aware reason and they I don't think are aware reason and they I don't think are aware necessarily of this side effect and how necessarily of this side effect and how necessarily of this side effect and how this might change their reproductive uh this might change their reproductive uh this might change their reproductive uh choices because what happens is once you choices because what happens is once you choices because what happens is once you get on the pill and I have a chapter on get on the pill and I have a chapter on get on the pill and I have a chapter on reproductive technology like egg reproductive technology like egg reproductive technology like egg freezing and IVF. So once you start to freezing and IVF. So once you start to freezing and IVF. So once you start to delay your fertility, you're going to delay your fertility, you're going to delay your fertility, you're going to spend more time later on trying to make spend more time later on trying to make spend more time later on trying to make up for it if you decide to have up for it if you decide to have up for it if you decide to have children. And I I don't think that young children. And I I don't think that young children. And I I don't think that young women are necessarily as aware of that women are necessarily as aware of that women are necessarily as aware of that either. That your biology is something either. That your biology is something either. That your biology is something very important to consider as a woman. very important to consider as a woman. very important to consider as a woman. And it's, you know, that's seen as And it's, you know, that's seen as And it's, you know, that's seen as sexist to say that, but that's the sexist to say that, but that's the sexist to say that, but that's the reality. And you know, especially if you reality. And you know, especially if you reality. And you know, especially if you want a family, it's important to want a family, it's important to want a family, it's important to prioritize that because that process is prioritize that because that process is prioritize that because that process is going to affect you in a way that's going to affect you in a way that's going to affect you in a way that's different from men. different from men. different from men. >> Yeah. I had Sarah Hill completely just >> Yeah. I had Sarah Hill completely just >> Yeah. I had Sarah Hill completely just took my head off with all of the impact took my head off with all of the impact took my head off with all of the impact of hormonal birth control. I think that of hormonal birth control. I think that of hormonal birth control. I think that a lot of the modern mental health issues a lot of the modern mental health issues a lot of the modern mental health issues that we're seeing with young women can that we're seeing with young women can that we're seeing with young women can probably be laid at the feet of at least probably be laid at the feet of at least probably be laid at the feet of at least I I I would love to do a cohort analysis I I I would love to do a cohort analysis I I I would love to do a cohort analysis between how many of the people that have between how many of the people that have between how many of the people that have got anxiety or depression also took got anxiety or depression also took got anxiety or depression also took hormonal birth control during puberty or hormonal birth control during puberty or hormonal birth control during puberty or are still on it now. I mean, the fact are still on it now. I mean, the fact are still on it now. I mean, the fact that your mate choices for women change that your mate choices for women change that your mate choices for women change when you're on the pill versus off the when you're on the pill versus off the when you're on the pill versus off the pill, that you seem to prioritize a pill, that you seem to prioritize a pill, that you seem to prioritize a little bit more for provisioning when little bit more for provisioning when little bit more for provisioning when you're on the pill and a little bit more you're on the pill and a little bit more you're on the pill and a little bit more for protection when you're off the pill. for protection when you're off the pill. for protection when you're off the pill. These are, you know, small effects, but These are, you know, small effects, but These are, you know, small effects, but they're there. Uh, how many women that they're there. Uh, how many women that they're there. Uh, how many women that I've heard from who said, "I was on the I've heard from who said, "I was on the I've heard from who said, "I was on the pill for ages, then I came off and I pill for ages, then I came off and I pill for ages, then I came off and I wasn't attracted to my partner anymore." wasn't attracted to my partner anymore." wasn't attracted to my partner anymore." Okay, but when is the first time that Okay, but when is the first time that Okay, but when is the first time that most women come off the pill if they've most women come off the pill if they've most women come off the pill if they've been on it since they were teenagers? been on it since they were teenagers? been on it since they were teenagers? It's when they're ready to have kids. It's when they're ready to have kids. It's when they're ready to have kids. But if you're doing it right, you've But if you're doing it right, you've But if you're doing it right, you've gone gone gone teenagers, 20s, found a partner, stayed teenagers, 20s, found a partner, stayed teenagers, 20s, found a partner, stayed with a partner, golden retriever, moved with a partner, golden retriever, moved with a partner, golden retriever, moved in together, engaged, married, in together, engaged, married, in together, engaged, married, off the pill, ready to have kids, right? off the pill, ready to have kids, right? off the pill, ready to have kids, right? You are deep in it's a great piece of You are deep in it's a great piece of You are deep in it's a great piece of advice is you need to if you're thinking advice is you need to if you're thinking advice is you need to if you're thinking about getting the golden retriever, about getting the golden retriever, about getting the golden retriever, right? Not even thinking about moving right? Not even thinking about moving right? Not even thinking about moving in, not even thinking about the in, not even thinking about the in, not even thinking about the engagement thing, you should come off engagement thing, you should come off engagement thing, you should come off the pill. You should come off the pill the pill. You should come off the pill the pill. You should come off the pill and you're just going to have to be and you're just going to have to be and you're just going to have to be extra careful protection. You're going extra careful protection. You're going extra careful protection. You're going to have you should come off the pill and to have you should come off the pill and to have you should come off the pill and work out if you still like your your work out if you still like your your work out if you still like your your boyfriend because the likelihood of you boyfriend because the likelihood of you boyfriend because the likelihood of you not in some women it makes them more not in some women it makes them more not in some women it makes them more attracted to them, attracted to them, attracted to them, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> Uh in women that are in relationships >> Uh in women that are in relationships >> Uh in women that are in relationships with more masculineized, more with more masculineized, more with more masculineized, more formidable, more attractive men, they formidable, more attractive men, they formidable, more attractive men, they actually get released out of this actually get released out of this actually get released out of this hormonal fugue state and they're like, hormonal fugue state and they're like, hormonal fugue state and they're like, "I'm into relationship with a Chad. This "I'm into relationship with a Chad. This "I'm into relationship with a Chad. This is great. Let me jump on you." Um, but is great. Let me jump on you." Um, but is great. Let me jump on you." Um, but then in other versions they've been then in other versions they've been then in other versions they've been optimizing for something that a more optimizing for something that a more optimizing for something that a more sort of native physiology or hormonal sort of native physiology or hormonal sort of native physiology or hormonal profile of theirs would not have been profile of theirs would not have been profile of theirs would not have been too keen on. And then when they when too keen on. And then when they when too keen on. And then when they when they reveal that that mask, they go, they reveal that that mask, they go, they reveal that that mask, they go, "Oh, I really I really like you all that "Oh, I really I really like you all that "Oh, I really I really like you all that much." much." much." >> Yeah. Which is unfortunate for both of >> Yeah. Which is unfortunate for both of >> Yeah. Which is unfortunate for both of them. And it's unfortunate for him. I them. And it's unfortunate for him. I them. And it's unfortunate for him. I can only imagine as a guy, you know, if can only imagine as a guy, you know, if can only imagine as a guy, you know, if your relationship go back on the pill. your relationship go back on the pill. your relationship go back on the pill. Go back on the pill. Bring her back. Go back on the pill. Bring her back. Go back on the pill. Bring her back. Um, what was I going to say? I wonder if Um, what was I going to say? I wonder if Um, what was I going to say? I wonder if because young women are getting on the because young women are getting on the because young women are getting on the pill at such a young age. Is this pill at such a young age. Is this pill at such a young age. Is this partially also why feminism has been so partially also why feminism has been so partially also why feminism has been so popular and why women really want to popular and why women really want to popular and why women really want to feminize men and they see masculinity as feminize men and they see masculinity as feminize men and they see masculinity as toxic? Because if you while on the pill, toxic? Because if you while on the pill, toxic? Because if you while on the pill, your body thinks you're pregnant and your body thinks you're pregnant and your body thinks you're pregnant and you're looking for a nurturing you're looking for a nurturing you're looking for a nurturing caretaker. Is that why there's just been caretaker. Is that why there's just been caretaker. Is that why there's just been this larger movement socially to this larger movement socially to this larger movement socially to encourage men to be much more feminine, encourage men to be much more feminine, encourage men to be much more feminine, not to be risk-taking, not to be not to be risk-taking, not to be not to be risk-taking, not to be dominant dominant dominant >> to a degree. To a degree, I think uh I I >> to a degree. To a degree, I think uh I I >> to a degree. To a degree, I think uh I I could imagine so. I would also imagine could imagine so. I would also imagine could imagine so. I would also imagine that me too and a lot of the moral panic that me too and a lot of the moral panic that me too and a lot of the moral panic around the danger of men generally uh around the danger of men generally uh around the danger of men generally uh causes women to want a softer kind of causes women to want a softer kind of causes women to want a softer kind of man. Now, they only want a softery kind man. Now, they only want a softery kind man. Now, they only want a softery kind of man kind of in principle, not in of man kind of in principle, not in of man kind of in principle, not in practice. practice. practice. >> Right? >> Right? >> Right? >> You know, in the 20 the mid20s, they uh >> You know, in the 20 the mid20s, they uh >> You know, in the 20 the mid20s, they uh tried to put uh what are called cinnamon tried to put uh what are called cinnamon tried to put uh what are called cinnamon roll boyfriends or golden retriever roll boyfriends or golden retriever roll boyfriends or golden retriever husbands on the front cover of romance husbands on the front cover of romance husbands on the front cover of romance books. Uh I say this as somebody that books. Uh I say this as somebody that books. Uh I say this as somebody that was in that industry for a little while was in that industry for a little while was in that industry for a little while doing doing doing >> cinnamon roll >> cinnamon roll >> cinnamon roll >> cinnamon roll husband. Cinnamon roll >> cinnamon roll husband. Cinnamon roll >> cinnamon roll husband. Cinnamon roll husband is sort of soft, fluffy, very husband is sort of soft, fluffy, very husband is sort of soft, fluffy, very non-dominant, very pliable. Um, you non-dominant, very pliable. Um, you non-dominant, very pliable. Um, you know, he's the kind of he's got a bit of know, he's the kind of he's got a bit of know, he's the kind of he's got a bit of a gut, but he's the sort of guy who uh a gut, but he's the sort of guy who uh a gut, but he's the sort of guy who uh would be able to put up level shelves, would be able to put up level shelves, would be able to put up level shelves, but wouldn't exactly ravage you in the but wouldn't exactly ravage you in the but wouldn't exactly ravage you in the backseat of a car. Okay? backseat of a car. Okay? backseat of a car. Okay? >> Right? Very reliable, consistent >> Right? Very reliable, consistent >> Right? Very reliable, consistent husband. And uh on with these romance husband. And uh on with these romance husband. And uh on with these romance books, the person on the cover is the books, the person on the cover is the books, the person on the cover is the protagonist. Typically, protagonist. Typically, protagonist. Typically, these books were post uh Fifty Shades of these books were post uh Fifty Shades of these books were post uh Fifty Shades of Gray, so it should have just ripped, Gray, so it should have just ripped, Gray, so it should have just ripped, right? You're buying Bitcoin at right? You're buying Bitcoin at right? You're buying Bitcoin at 5centent. The market's only going up. 5centent. The market's only going up. 5centent. The market's only going up. Nobody wanted to buy them. Nobody wanted Nobody wanted to buy them. Nobody wanted Nobody wanted to buy them. Nobody wanted to buy these. Now it is kind of like to buy these. Now it is kind of like to buy these. Now it is kind of like female porn. Uh so do you really want to female porn. Uh so do you really want to female porn. Uh so do you really want to watch do you want your sexual fantasy to watch do you want your sexual fantasy to watch do you want your sexual fantasy to be about some guy that can put up level be about some guy that can put up level be about some guy that can put up level shelves but isn't that good in the shelves but isn't that good in the shelves but isn't that good in the bedroom no matter how much you try and bedroom no matter how much you try and bedroom no matter how much you try and sort of repurpose it? But the point is sort of repurpose it? But the point is sort of repurpose it? But the point is women like the idea of this kind of they women like the idea of this kind of they women like the idea of this kind of they they'll proclaim it, right? It's it's a they'll proclaim it, right? It's it's a they'll proclaim it, right? It's it's a view that they'll endorse that men view that they'll endorse that men view that they'll endorse that men should dial back their dominance and and should dial back their dominance and and should dial back their dominance and and their desire for conquer and aggression their desire for conquer and aggression their desire for conquer and aggression and mastery and stuff like that, but and mastery and stuff like that, but and mastery and stuff like that, but it's not one that they'll they will uh it's not one that they'll they will uh it's not one that they'll they will uh endorse it but not embody it. And um endorse it but not embody it. And um endorse it but not embody it. And um when push comes to shove and you go, "Oh when push comes to shove and you go, "Oh when push comes to shove and you go, "Oh yeah, yeah, he should be more soft and yeah, yeah, he should be more soft and yeah, yeah, he should be more soft and more gentle and less concerned with more gentle and less concerned with more gentle and less concerned with achieving things and stuff." What does achieving things and stuff." What does achieving things and stuff." What does your husband do? Oh, he's a hedge fund your husband do? Oh, he's a hedge fund your husband do? Oh, he's a hedge fund manager. Oh, fantastic. Very good. I manager. Oh, fantastic. Very good. I manager. Oh, fantastic. Very good. I used to do MMA as a as a as a young guy. used to do MMA as a as a as a young guy. used to do MMA as a as a as a young guy. Lovely. Um, but I do think on the birth Lovely. Um, but I do think on the birth Lovely. Um, but I do think on the birth control thing, you're right. What is it control thing, you're right. What is it control thing, you're right. What is it doing to men? Um, doing to men? Um, doing to men? Um, I think that, well, there's evidence to I think that, well, there's evidence to I think that, well, there's evidence to suggest that men who are around suggest that men who are around suggest that men who are around old women, post-menopausal or young uh old women, post-menopausal or young uh old women, post-menopausal or young uh girls, their uh testosterone drops, girls, their uh testosterone drops, girls, their uh testosterone drops, their fertility drives. So, I know that their fertility drives. So, I know that their fertility drives. So, I know that you've got a question around what's the you've got a question around what's the you've got a question around what's the X factor that's contributing to uh X factor that's contributing to uh X factor that's contributing to uh testosterone dip. I think that the testosterone dip. I think that the testosterone dip. I think that the artificial suppression of female artificial suppression of female artificial suppression of female fertility through birth control and the fertility through birth control and the fertility through birth control and the increasing isolation of men that they're increasing isolation of men that they're increasing isolation of men that they're not hanging around with fertile women or not hanging around with fertile women or not hanging around with fertile women or any women at all and of them more of any women at all and of them more of any women at all and of them more of them are elected infertile through birth them are elected infertile through birth them are elected infertile through birth control. I think that that is definitely control. I think that that is definitely control. I think that that is definitely a potential X factor that I don't think a potential X factor that I don't think a potential X factor that I don't think anybody has priced in. No one's priced anybody has priced in. No one's priced anybody has priced in. No one's priced in the fact that male sex drive and in the fact that male sex drive and in the fact that male sex drive and their hormone uh profile is impacted by their hormone uh profile is impacted by their hormone uh profile is impacted by the fertility of the women in their the fertility of the women in their the fertility of the women in their local ecology. And if you're not around local ecology. And if you're not around local ecology. And if you're not around women that are fertile and not around women that are fertile and not around women that are fertile and not around women at all, women at all, women at all, that is going to drive your uh sex drive that is going to drive your uh sex drive that is going to drive your uh sex drive down and it's going to drive your down and it's going to drive your down and it's going to drive your testosterone down. testosterone down. testosterone down. >> Interesting. I was going to ask you what >> Interesting. I was going to ask you what >> Interesting. I was going to ask you what was like shooting for those novels. was like shooting for those novels. was like shooting for those novels. >> Have you? >> Have you? >> Have you? Um, so the way that I used to do it was Um, so the way that I used to do it was Um, so the way that I used to do it was I would shoot with a photographer for I would shoot with a photographer for I would shoot with a photographer for just my portfolio stuff. So it wasn't it just my portfolio stuff. So it wasn't it just my portfolio stuff. So it wasn't it wasn't purposefully runchy [ __ ] I guess wasn't purposefully runchy [ __ ] I guess wasn't purposefully runchy [ __ ] I guess I I don't know. I just I just turned it I I don't know. I just I just turned it I I don't know. I just I just turned it on. Uh I don't know what I don't know on. Uh I don't know what I don't know on. Uh I don't know what I don't know what happened. Anyway, I got picked up what happened. Anyway, I got picked up what happened. Anyway, I got picked up the first shoot that I did got picked up the first shoot that I did got picked up the first shoot that I did got picked up by uh a by uh a by uh a really good uh author and put on the really good uh author and put on the really good uh author and put on the cover of a book called Ricochet. And cover of a book called Ricochet. And cover of a book called Ricochet. And then then then I got flown out to go and do some of I got flown out to go and do some of I got flown out to go and do some of these these these They're like book conventions, I They're like book conventions, I They're like book conventions, I suppose, suppose, suppose, >> but the entire thing is like 2,000 dark >> but the entire thing is like 2,000 dark >> but the entire thing is like 2,000 dark romance readers. So, there's me and a romance readers. So, there's me and a romance readers. So, there's me and a couple of the other cover models and couple of the other cover models and couple of the other cover models and then the husbands of the authors that then the husbands of the authors that then the husbands of the authors that are there to help them. are there to help them. are there to help them. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> And that's it. And it's just apart from >> And that's it. And it's just apart from >> And that's it. And it's just apart from that, it's just female female readers. that, it's just female female readers. that, it's just female female readers. um which sounds wonderful in practice, um which sounds wonderful in practice, um which sounds wonderful in practice, but the um I was 27 but the um I was 27 but the um I was 27 28 or something like that. Um the age 28 or something like that. Um the age 28 or something like that. Um the age profile I was the youngest person in the profile I was the youngest person in the profile I was the youngest person in the room usually by like a factor of two. Um room usually by like a factor of two. Um room usually by like a factor of two. Um anyway, it was it was interesting. It anyway, it was it was interesting. It anyway, it was it was interesting. It was fun. Um it's a part of my history, was fun. Um it's a part of my history, was fun. Um it's a part of my history, but I'm I'm I've aged out. Yeah, I could but I'm I'm I've aged out. Yeah, I could but I'm I'm I've aged out. Yeah, I could be I might just pivot into Cinnamon Roll be I might just pivot into Cinnamon Roll be I might just pivot into Cinnamon Roll Husband. I can't wait for that. Get a Husband. I can't wait for that. Get a Husband. I can't wait for that. Get a go. Chill out. go. Chill out. go. Chill out. >> There you go. If this podcast, you know, >> There you go. If this podcast, you know, >> There you go. If this podcast, you know, >> if it tanks, [ __ ] it. Well, anyway, so >> if it tanks, [ __ ] it. Well, anyway, so >> if it tanks, [ __ ] it. Well, anyway, so we we we've you've already got what's we we we've you've already got what's we we we've you've already got what's happening with hormonal birth control happening with hormonal birth control happening with hormonal birth control for women and then we do have endocrine for women and then we do have endocrine for women and then we do have endocrine disruptors for men too. Yeah. disruptors for men too. Yeah. disruptors for men too. Yeah. >> Yeah. So definitely I mean there was >> Yeah. So definitely I mean there was >> Yeah. So definitely I mean there was there have been a number of studies there have been a number of studies there have been a number of studies showing this that testosterone levels showing this that testosterone levels showing this that testosterone levels have been declining for the last say 40 have been declining for the last say 40 have been declining for the last say 40 years and it's been you know pretty years and it's been you know pretty years and it's been you know pretty severe I would say in the last 20 years severe I would say in the last 20 years severe I would say in the last 20 years and researchers have accounted for and researchers have accounted for and researchers have accounted for things like age, diet, you know, things like age, diet, you know, things like age, diet, you know, exercise, lifestyle choices like exercise, lifestyle choices like exercise, lifestyle choices like alcohol, smoking and cannabis and still alcohol, smoking and cannabis and still alcohol, smoking and cannabis and still they say there's something going on here they say there's something going on here they say there's something going on here where it is where it is where it is environmental and that it is something environmental and that it is something environmental and that it is something specific to this time period. And so specific to this time period. And so specific to this time period. And so they do think that there's something, they do think that there's something, they do think that there's something, you know, in terms of the food we're you know, in terms of the food we're you know, in terms of the food we're eating potentially or in our water eating potentially or in our water eating potentially or in our water supply. supply. supply. >> I've read a lot of the animal literature >> I've read a lot of the animal literature >> I've read a lot of the animal literature in terms of uh drugs in the water and in terms of uh drugs in the water and in terms of uh drugs in the water and how this affects fish or how this affects fish or how this affects fish or >> what are the craziest stories that you >> what are the craziest stories that you >> what are the craziest stories that you learned about that? learned about that? learned about that? >> Um there was one species of Japanese >> Um there was one species of Japanese >> Um there was one species of Japanese fish and they tested dasipam. So, okay. fish and they tested dasipam. So, okay. fish and they tested dasipam. So, okay. Well, there was one study that looked at Well, there was one study that looked at Well, there was one study that looked at fish that were exposed to pharmaceutical fish that were exposed to pharmaceutical fish that were exposed to pharmaceutical waste and then also um waste and then also um waste and then also um there was I'm trying to think what the there was I'm trying to think what the there was I'm trying to think what the other source was, but basically one part other source was, but basically one part other source was, but basically one part of the water supply the fish were of the water supply the fish were of the water supply the fish were masculineized. So, there were intersects masculineized. So, there were intersects masculineized. So, there were intersects in both directions. Some of the fish in both directions. Some of the fish in both directions. Some of the fish were more in like more masculine and were more in like more masculine and were more in like more masculine and then some of them were feminized. So, then some of them were feminized. So, then some of them were feminized. So, it's basically saying, you know, this is it's basically saying, you know, this is it's basically saying, you know, this is happening to the fish. Like, what do you happening to the fish. Like, what do you happening to the fish. Like, what do you think it's doing to humans? But with think it's doing to humans? But with think it's doing to humans? But with these Japanese fish, they were lethargic these Japanese fish, they were lethargic these Japanese fish, they were lethargic and they were basically too knocked out and they were basically too knocked out and they were basically too knocked out to to breed. The courtship behavior was to to breed. The courtship behavior was to to breed. The courtship behavior was messed up. The the female fish, their messed up. The the female fish, their messed up. The the female fish, their ovaries were so distended and I felt ovaries were so distended and I felt ovaries were so distended and I felt really bad for the fish looking at these really bad for the fish looking at these really bad for the fish looking at these pictures cuz I thought that doesn't pictures cuz I thought that doesn't pictures cuz I thought that doesn't look, you know, very healthy or look, you know, very healthy or look, you know, very healthy or comfortable. So, it's basically, you comfortable. So, it's basically, you comfortable. So, it's basically, you know, these these drugs are doing know, these these drugs are doing know, these these drugs are doing something, I think, doing something to something, I think, doing something to something, I think, doing something to us. And how you know if you're not even us. And how you know if you're not even us. And how you know if you're not even aware of it, even if you do manage to aware of it, even if you do manage to aware of it, even if you do manage to find a partner and fall in love and find a partner and fall in love and find a partner and fall in love and decide you do want to have a family, you decide you do want to have a family, you decide you do want to have a family, you may come up across the come up against may come up across the come up against may come up across the come up against these issues. And then if you're not these issues. And then if you're not these issues. And then if you're not even aware that this is what you're even aware that this is what you're even aware that this is what you're ingesting on a daily basis, what do you ingesting on a daily basis, what do you ingesting on a daily basis, what do you do then? do then? do then? >> SSRIs drive sex drive down, right? >> SSRIs drive sex drive down, right? >> SSRIs drive sex drive down, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. The effect of libido and >> Yeah. Yeah. The effect of libido and >> Yeah. Yeah. The effect of libido and there's also post SSRI sexual syndrome. there's also post SSRI sexual syndrome. there's also post SSRI sexual syndrome. Yes. Yes. Yes. ESSD. Yes. Yes. Yes. ESSD. Yes. Yes. Yes. ESSD. >> Yeah. Yeah. and the fact that um in many >> Yeah. Yeah. and the fact that um in many >> Yeah. Yeah. and the fact that um in many cases we don't know the effects of these cases we don't know the effects of these cases we don't know the effects of these drugs on children and in some cases they drugs on children and in some cases they drugs on children and in some cases they are being prescribed to kids. So that's are being prescribed to kids. So that's are being prescribed to kids. So that's very concerning. very concerning. very concerning. >> A quick aside, you've probably heard >> A quick aside, you've probably heard >> A quick aside, you've probably heard experts like Dr. Rhonda Patrick talk experts like Dr. Rhonda Patrick talk experts like Dr. Rhonda Patrick talk about the benefits of omega-3s. They about the benefits of omega-3s. They about the benefits of omega-3s. They reduce Hello. Omega-3s. There they are. reduce Hello. Omega-3s. There they are. reduce Hello. Omega-3s. There they are. They reduce brain function. No, they They reduce brain function. No, they They reduce brain function. No, they don't. They support brain function. don't. They support brain function. don't. They support brain function. Maybe I should take more. They support Maybe I should take more. They support Maybe I should take more. 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Is the issue, do you think, more about a desire issue, do you think, more about a desire issue, do you think, more about a desire for sex or coupling? for sex or coupling? for sex or coupling? >> H you mean in terms of why people aren't >> H you mean in terms of why people aren't >> H you mean in terms of why people aren't having it? having it? having it? >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> it's probably both. I think at the core, >> it's probably both. I think at the core, >> it's probably both. I think at the core, everybody wants to find someone. Many everybody wants to find someone. Many everybody wants to find someone. Many people may say that they they've given people may say that they they've given people may say that they they've given up and they're happy on their own, but I up and they're happy on their own, but I up and they're happy on their own, but I do think that's what most people deep do think that's what most people deep do think that's what most people deep down want. And sex is well see the thing down want. And sex is well see the thing down want. And sex is well see the thing with sex though I think porn is a big with sex though I think porn is a big with sex though I think porn is a big part of this issue in terms of why part of this issue in terms of why part of this issue in terms of why people are turning away from actual people are turning away from actual people are turning away from actual sexual activity. They're getting their sexual activity. They're getting their sexual activity. They're getting their needs met through this proxy that needs met through this proxy that needs met through this proxy that >> stimulate or simulates real sexual >> stimulate or simulates real sexual >> stimulate or simulates real sexual activity because when you're watching activity because when you're watching activity because when you're watching porn the same network of brain regions porn the same network of brain regions porn the same network of brain regions is activated as when you're actually is activated as when you're actually is activated as when you're actually having sex. So you're having the having sex. So you're having the having sex. So you're having the resulting orgasm and you are you know resulting orgasm and you are you know resulting orgasm and you are you know getting these feelood chemicals. It getting these feelood chemicals. It getting these feelood chemicals. It helps to self soothe and regulate your helps to self soothe and regulate your helps to self soothe and regulate your emotions, help you help calm down if emotions, help you help calm down if emotions, help you help calm down if you're stressed out. And so it makes you're stressed out. And so it makes you're stressed out. And so it makes men, I think, in particular, less likely men, I think, in particular, less likely men, I think, in particular, less likely to want to go out and go through the to want to go out and go through the to want to go out and go through the hassle of having to talk to a woman, hassle of having to talk to a woman, hassle of having to talk to a woman, having to sit through a date, having to having to sit through a date, having to having to sit through a date, having to pay for the date, having to follow up, pay for the date, having to follow up, pay for the date, having to follow up, and all this stuff. Like, why bother do and all this stuff. Like, why bother do and all this stuff. Like, why bother do that if you can get sexual gratification that if you can get sexual gratification that if you can get sexual gratification on a screen? But I think also that leads on a screen? But I think also that leads on a screen? But I think also that leads to potentially like an overall sense of to potentially like an overall sense of to potentially like an overall sense of lethargy because when you are lethargy because when you are lethargy because when you are masturbating and having orgasm, you are, masturbating and having orgasm, you are, masturbating and having orgasm, you are, you know, you're going to be sleepy you know, you're going to be sleepy you know, you're going to be sleepy after. So is that also, you can tell me, after. So is that also, you can tell me, after. So is that also, you can tell me, do you think this is a trend up for you, do you think this is a trend up for you, do you think this is a trend up for you, but just a trend more generally with but just a trend more generally with but just a trend more generally with young men in terms of young men in terms of young men in terms of >> does does this affect their motivation? >> does does this affect their motivation? >> does does this affect their motivation? Because I'm I'm wondering for guys this Because I'm I'm wondering for guys this Because I'm I'm wondering for guys this question of why men are not are falling question of why men are not are falling question of why men are not are falling behind in society, right? And I very behind in society, right? And I very behind in society, right? And I very concerned for young men because I concerned for young men because I concerned for young men because I imagine I hear all the time from parents imagine I hear all the time from parents imagine I hear all the time from parents that their daughters are doing really that their daughters are doing really that their daughters are doing really well, excelling academically, but their well, excelling academically, but their well, excelling academically, but their sons just for whatever reason are just sons just for whatever reason are just sons just for whatever reason are just they're not they're not enjoying it. You they're not they're not enjoying it. You they're not they're not enjoying it. You know, they're having mental health know, they're having mental health know, they're having mental health issues. issues. issues. >> They're just staying at home and fapping >> They're just staying at home and fapping >> They're just staying at home and fapping all the time. all the time. all the time. >> Yeah. Well, maybe not fapping, but >> Yeah. Well, maybe not fapping, but >> Yeah. Well, maybe not fapping, but they're like, you know, vaping and they're like, you know, vaping and they're like, you know, vaping and playing video games or online betting or playing video games or online betting or playing video games or online betting or whatever and they have no motivation. Do whatever and they have no motivation. Do whatever and they have no motivation. Do you think porn could be part of that? you think porn could be part of that? you think porn could be part of that? Because I think if you're exposed to Because I think if you're exposed to Because I think if you're exposed to this at such a young age and this is the this at such a young age and this is the this at such a young age and this is the thing that you're watching every day and thing that you're watching every day and thing that you're watching every day and it's your coping strategy that it's your coping strategy that it's your coping strategy that potentially that's the thing you're potentially that's the thing you're potentially that's the thing you're going to constantly gravitate toward and going to constantly gravitate toward and going to constantly gravitate toward and it's actually going to, you know, make it's actually going to, you know, make it's actually going to, you know, make you really sedated and lethargic more you really sedated and lethargic more you really sedated and lethargic more broadly in life. broadly in life. broadly in life. >> Yeah, I think sedated is a great word. >> Yeah, I think sedated is a great word. >> Yeah, I think sedated is a great word. I've got another idea that Scott I've got another idea that Scott I've got another idea that Scott probably can't wait to [ __ ] misquote. probably can't wait to [ __ ] misquote. probably can't wait to [ __ ] misquote. Um, the male sedation hypothesis. Young Um, the male sedation hypothesis. Young Um, the male sedation hypothesis. Young male syndrome, which I know that you male syndrome, which I know that you male syndrome, which I know that you know about. Historically, high volumes know about. Historically, high volumes know about. Historically, high volumes of young sexless men tended to cause of young sexless men tended to cause of young sexless men tended to cause anarchy and revolutions and push over anarchy and revolutions and push over anarchy and revolutions and push over granny and set stuff on fire. Why is it granny and set stuff on fire. Why is it granny and set stuff on fire. Why is it given that we've seen the highest rates given that we've seen the highest rates given that we've seen the highest rates of sexlessness amongst young men in the of sexlessness amongst young men in the of sexlessness amongst young men in the modern world that we're not seeing the modern world that we're not seeing the modern world that we're not seeing the concordant amounts of antisocial concordant amounts of antisocial concordant amounts of antisocial behavior? And it's my belief that men behavior? And it's my belief that men behavior? And it's my belief that men are being sedated out of their status are being sedated out of their status are being sedated out of their status seeking and repro reproductive seeking seeking and repro reproductive seeking seeking and repro reproductive seeking behavior through uh screens, video behavior through uh screens, video behavior through uh screens, video games, and porn. Uh, and yeah, that games, and porn. Uh, and yeah, that games, and porn. Uh, and yeah, that that's what's happening behaviorally. that's what's happening behaviorally. that's what's happening behaviorally. Maybe there's some endocrine disruptors, Maybe there's some endocrine disruptors, Maybe there's some endocrine disruptors, maybe a lot of weed. I think more maybe a lot of weed. I think more maybe a lot of weed. I think more people, more young guys smoke weed than people, more young guys smoke weed than people, more young guys smoke weed than drink alcohol now. So, yeah, it is a drink alcohol now. So, yeah, it is a drink alcohol now. So, yeah, it is a real push toward lethargy. Um, do I real push toward lethargy. Um, do I real push toward lethargy. Um, do I think that it's you're anisttizing think that it's you're anisttizing think that it's you're anisttizing yourself from your sort of mate seeking yourself from your sort of mate seeking yourself from your sort of mate seeking behavior by being able to use porn? behavior by being able to use porn? behavior by being able to use porn? Almost certainly to a degree. I mean, Almost certainly to a degree. I mean, Almost certainly to a degree. I mean, there's even the opposite, which is what there's even the opposite, which is what there's even the opposite, which is what was it? Masturbate before you evaluate was it? Masturbate before you evaluate was it? Masturbate before you evaluate was a tagline at university which was do was a tagline at university which was do was a tagline at university which was do I really want to sleep with that girl? I really want to sleep with that girl? I really want to sleep with that girl? Let me let me have a wank first and work Let me let me have a wank first and work Let me let me have a wank first and work out if I still do. And for the most part out if I still do. And for the most part out if I still do. And for the most part the guys were like no wasn't that I I the guys were like no wasn't that I I the guys were like no wasn't that I I like what was it? Uh I didn't like you. like what was it? Uh I didn't like you. like what was it? Uh I didn't like you. I was just horny. Um and in some ways I was just horny. Um and in some ways I was just horny. Um and in some ways you go ah that that avoids me from you go ah that that avoids me from you go ah that that avoids me from making a mistake. But when you do it on making a mistake. But when you do it on making a mistake. But when you do it on mass and when it's very easily available mass and when it's very easily available mass and when it's very easily available um I mean look um I mean look um I mean look there's some mixed bag data. Dr. David there's some mixed bag data. Dr. David there's some mixed bag data. Dr. David Lei is very anti- porn panic. I know Lei is very anti- porn panic. I know Lei is very anti- porn panic. I know Mike Israel is very anti- porn panic, Mike Israel is very anti- porn panic, Mike Israel is very anti- porn panic, too. And then on the other side, there's too. And then on the other side, there's too. And then on the other side, there's some people that behaviorally it's not some people that behaviorally it's not some people that behaviorally it's not recognized as an addiction properly yet, recognized as an addiction properly yet, recognized as an addiction properly yet, I don't think. I don't think. I don't think. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> But um it seems impossible to me that >> But um it seems impossible to me that >> But um it seems impossible to me that one of the strongest drivers for humans one of the strongest drivers for humans one of the strongest drivers for humans being given to them freely, they can being given to them freely, they can being given to them freely, they can push a essentially push a button like push a essentially push a button like push a essentially push a button like rub a button for a while and the rub a button for a while and the rub a button for a while and the and they get to uh experience this thing and they get to uh experience this thing and they get to uh experience this thing that I mean you know what would be that I mean you know what would be that I mean you know what would be fascinating I would have loved to have fascinating I would have loved to have fascinating I would have loved to have seen in huntergatherer tribes how much seen in huntergatherer tribes how much seen in huntergatherer tribes how much uh masturbation happen occurs like is uh masturbation happen occurs like is uh masturbation happen occurs like is >> probably too busy foraging >> probably too busy foraging >> probably too busy foraging >> okay well that might be that might be >> okay well that might be that might be >> okay well that might be that might be true um just talk to me the neuroscience true um just talk to me the neuroscience true um just talk to me the neuroscience of porn use is there anything distinct of porn use is there anything distinct of porn use is there anything distinct about that that's different to what's about that that's different to what's about that that's different to what's happening when people have sex happening when people have sex happening when people have sex >> uh okay I was going to mention I was >> uh okay I was going to mention I was >> uh okay I was going to mention I was going to say something oh so what I was going to say something oh so what I was going to say something oh so what I was going to say I agree with you in terms going to say I agree with you in terms going to say I agree with you in terms of like if you're I can see if you're of like if you're I can see if you're of like if you're I can see if you're doing it like constantly and it becomes doing it like constantly and it becomes doing it like constantly and it becomes a lifestyle thing. how this is what my a lifestyle thing. how this is what my a lifestyle thing. how this is what my concern is if it's like a lifestyle concern is if it's like a lifestyle concern is if it's like a lifestyle thing for guys because I've had men say thing for guys because I've had men say thing for guys because I've had men say to me when they are not watching porn if to me when they are not watching porn if to me when they are not watching porn if they manage to cut out porn entirely they manage to cut out porn entirely they manage to cut out porn entirely that they actually have more motivation that they actually have more motivation that they actually have more motivation to go up and talk to a woman because I to go up and talk to a woman because I to go up and talk to a woman because I would imagine if you see a woman that would imagine if you see a woman that would imagine if you see a woman that you're attracted to and you want to go you're attracted to and you want to go you're attracted to and you want to go speak to her and say you're maybe more speak to her and say you're maybe more speak to her and say you're maybe more shy or anxious you know in the back of shy or anxious you know in the back of shy or anxious you know in the back of your mind that you can go home and your mind that you can go home and your mind that you can go home and masturbate and that's going to give you masturbate and that's going to give you masturbate and that's going to give you a release after. a release after. a release after. In some ways, would that not make it a In some ways, would that not make it a In some ways, would that not make it a little bit easier for younger guys little bit easier for younger guys little bit easier for younger guys especially who may not have as much especially who may not have as much especially who may not have as much experience with women and especially experience with women and especially experience with women and especially postme too where they're already a postme too where they're already a postme too where they're already a little bit understandably more scared to little bit understandably more scared to little bit understandably more scared to talk to women. talk to women. talk to women. >> How it knowing that you have this other >> How it knowing that you have this other >> How it knowing that you have this other option might option might option might >> That's a good point. That that that is a >> That's a good point. That that that is a >> That's a good point. That that that is a good point. Uh I mean it's the same good point. Uh I mean it's the same good point. Uh I mean it's the same thing as thing as thing as if the only way that men could get sex if the only way that men could get sex if the only way that men could get sex was by marrying a woman. you asking her was by marrying a woman. you asking her was by marrying a woman. you asking her father, becoming a pillar of the father, becoming a pillar of the father, becoming a pillar of the community, showing his competence, or if community, showing his competence, or if community, showing his competence, or if you just need to be in a nightclub at you just need to be in a nightclub at you just need to be in a nightclub at the right time in the right place at 2 the right time in the right place at 2 the right time in the right place at 2 in the morning, like men will meet those in the morning, like men will meet those in the morning, like men will meet those standards appropriately, including the standards appropriately, including the standards appropriately, including the standards for themselves in order to get standards for themselves in order to get standards for themselves in order to get sexual gratification through a screen. I sexual gratification through a screen. I sexual gratification through a screen. I mean, it is I can't remember who it was mean, it is I can't remember who it was mean, it is I can't remember who it was that said it to me, but just for a that said it to me, but just for a that said it to me, but just for a second, think about how stupid the human second, think about how stupid the human second, think about how stupid the human brain is and think about how strong our brain is and think about how strong our brain is and think about how strong our sex drive is. that looking at a sex drive is. that looking at a sex drive is. that looking at a 7 in across screen 7 in across screen 7 in across screen that I am not a part of of someone else that I am not a part of of someone else that I am not a part of of someone else having sex with someone else can confuse having sex with someone else can confuse having sex with someone else can confuse my brain into thinking some sex is going my brain into thinking some sex is going my brain into thinking some sex is going to happen here. to happen here. to happen here. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Like that that is how strong this drive >> Like that that is how strong this drive >> Like that that is how strong this drive is, right? that a a two-dimensional is, right? that a a two-dimensional is, right? that a a two-dimensional exclusively video and audio exclusively video and audio exclusively video and audio representation on a teeny tiny little representation on a teeny tiny little representation on a teeny tiny little screen popped up against a pillow is screen popped up against a pillow is screen popped up against a pillow is enough to convince your brain there enough to convince your brain there enough to convince your brain there might be some sex on you should respond might be some sex on you should respond might be some sex on you should respond appropriately. appropriately. appropriately. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Uh it is mad. >> Uh it is mad. >> Uh it is mad. >> Also think about what it's doing to >> Also think about what it's doing to >> Also think about what it's doing to kids. Like this is one of the rabbit kids. Like this is one of the rabbit kids. Like this is one of the rabbit holes I've been going down more recently holes I've been going down more recently holes I've been going down more recently and thinking about how has this affected and thinking about how has this affected and thinking about how has this affected Gen Z's development. Gen Z's development. Gen Z's development. >> They're exposed to porn at such a young >> They're exposed to porn at such a young >> They're exposed to porn at such a young age. But um in terms of the difference age. But um in terms of the difference age. But um in terms of the difference between say what's going on in the brain between say what's going on in the brain between say what's going on in the brain so same brain network basically you know so same brain network basically you know so same brain network basically you know like regions that are involved in like regions that are involved in like regions that are involved in physiological arousal penal tumes visual physiological arousal penal tumes visual physiological arousal penal tumes visual uh regions um this was my dissertation uh regions um this was my dissertation uh regions um this was my dissertation actually so it takes me back now I'm actually so it takes me back now I'm actually so it takes me back now I'm trying to remember what other parts of trying to remember what other parts of trying to remember what other parts of >> you did motor you did a dissertation on >> you did motor you did a dissertation on >> you did motor you did a dissertation on penalance penalance penalance >> no no not just penal tumes but it was on >> no no not just penal tumes but it was on >> no no not just penal tumes but it was on basically like male sexuality and sexual basically like male sexuality and sexual basically like male sexuality and sexual arousal and yeah I looked at the arousal and yeah I looked at the arousal and yeah I looked at the structure and function of the brain I structure and function of the brain I structure and function of the brain I used four different types of brain used four different types of brain used four different types of brain imaging it was a lot of on. It was a imaging it was a lot of on. It was a imaging it was a lot of on. It was a very expensive study, but I was I was very expensive study, but I was I was very expensive study, but I was I was extremely blessed. extremely blessed. extremely blessed. >> Really fun for the men. Yeah. Yeah. >> Really fun for the men. Yeah. Yeah. >> Really fun for the men. Yeah. Yeah. >> Um and so basically it's it's it's the >> Um and so basically it's it's it's the >> Um and so basically it's it's it's the same network. It's not activated as same network. It's not activated as same network. It's not activated as strongly, but it's very much the same strongly, but it's very much the same strongly, but it's very much the same reasons. And that's why pornography is reasons. And that's why pornography is reasons. And that's why pornography is so compelling and why I think for people so compelling and why I think for people so compelling and why I think for people who especially if you are if that is who especially if you are if that is who especially if you are if that is your primary mode of sexual release, your primary mode of sexual release, your primary mode of sexual release, >> very much become a preference or a >> very much become a preference or a >> very much become a preference or a standin. standin. standin. >> You're habituating more than anything. >> You're habituating more than anything. >> You're habituating more than anything. just what do you do? You know, just what do you do? You know, just what do you do? You know, guys that tend to go to the same bar all guys that tend to go to the same bar all guys that tend to go to the same bar all the time, sit in the same seat, order the time, sit in the same seat, order the time, sit in the same seat, order the same coffee, like it just becomes a the same coffee, like it just becomes a the same coffee, like it just becomes a part of your daily routine. And there's part of your daily routine. And there's part of your daily routine. And there's this weird habituation effect, I think, this weird habituation effect, I think, this weird habituation effect, I think, with porn. Mary Harrington calls it the with porn. Mary Harrington calls it the with porn. Mary Harrington calls it the law of fap entropy, which is whatever law of fap entropy, which is whatever law of fap entropy, which is whatever you start out wanking to gets you start out wanking to gets you start out wanking to gets progressively more extreme over time. progressively more extreme over time. progressively more extreme over time. >> That's that's actually I I like her >> That's that's actually I I like her >> That's that's actually I I like her work, but actually that's not exactly work, but actually that's not exactly work, but actually that's not exactly accurate. Tell me what is accurate. accurate. Tell me what is accurate. accurate. Tell me what is accurate. >> For guys who end up watching quote >> For guys who end up watching quote >> For guys who end up watching quote extreme stuff, that's actually what they extreme stuff, that's actually what they extreme stuff, that's actually what they liked all along. It just took them a liked all along. It just took them a liked all along. It just took them a while to admit it to themselves. while to admit it to themselves. while to admit it to themselves. >> Oh god, the algo wasn't delivering them >> Oh god, the algo wasn't delivering them >> Oh god, the algo wasn't delivering them what they needed until it took a bit of what they needed until it took a bit of what they needed until it took a bit of time to refine it. time to refine it. time to refine it. >> Well, because I understandably men who >> Well, because I understandably men who >> Well, because I understandably men who have these unusual sexual preferences, have these unusual sexual preferences, have these unusual sexual preferences, they're a little bit they're a little bit they're a little bit >> Yeah. balloons. They're a little bit >> Yeah. balloons. They're a little bit >> Yeah. balloons. They're a little bit more reluctant to to say out loud. So, more reluctant to to say out loud. So, more reluctant to to say out loud. So, >> even to themselves, >> even to themselves, >> even to themselves, >> even to themselves. And so, oh, that's >> even to themselves. And so, oh, that's >> even to themselves. And so, oh, that's so interesting. they're explaining to so interesting. they're explaining to so interesting. they're explaining to say their partner or their friends if say their partner or their friends if say their partner or their friends if they're talking about this, you know, they're talking about this, you know, they're talking about this, you know, >> that's so good. I love I love that. I >> that's so good. I love I love that. I >> that's so good. I love I love that. I mean, the the law still works, but not mean, the the law still works, but not mean, the the law still works, but not for the reason that you think. It's not for the reason that you think. It's not for the reason that you think. It's not a progressive habituation to more a progressive habituation to more a progressive habituation to more extreme stuff. It's a progressive extreme stuff. It's a progressive extreme stuff. It's a progressive revealing to yourself of what you revealing to yourself of what you revealing to yourself of what you wanted. wanted. wanted. >> That's so cool. What about gooning? >> That's so cool. What about gooning? >> That's so cool. What about gooning? Let's talk about gooning. Let's talk about gooning. Let's talk about gooning. >> Oh boy. >> Oh boy. >> Oh boy. >> Yeah. I mean, you could spend your life >> Yeah. I mean, you could spend your life >> Yeah. I mean, you could spend your life masturbating watching porn if you want masturbating watching porn if you want masturbating watching porn if you want to. There's enough content out there for to. There's enough content out there for to. There's enough content out there for sure. Yeah. Um, so gooning, I'm sure sure. Yeah. Um, so gooning, I'm sure sure. Yeah. Um, so gooning, I'm sure your audience knows what this term is, your audience knows what this term is, your audience knows what this term is, but it's basically men who predominately but it's basically men who predominately but it's basically men who predominately men who like to masturbate to no end in men who like to masturbate to no end in men who like to masturbate to no end in sight. And basically, my understanding, sight. And basically, my understanding, sight. And basically, my understanding, they might have multiple screens open they might have multiple screens open they might have multiple screens open for hours. They don't reach an orgasm. for hours. They don't reach an orgasm. for hours. They don't reach an orgasm. It's like edging, but for a longer It's like edging, but for a longer It's like edging, but for a longer period of time, and they don't really period of time, and they don't really period of time, and they don't really have any conflict about it. They quite have any conflict about it. They quite have any conflict about it. They quite enjoy it. enjoy it. enjoy it. >> How's porn affected women? >> How's porn affected women? >> How's porn affected women? I think there are more women struggling I think there are more women struggling I think there are more women struggling with porn issues than people realize with porn issues than people realize with porn issues than people realize because this has predominantly been an because this has predominantly been an because this has predominantly been an issue like say um porn quote addiction issue like say um porn quote addiction issue like say um porn quote addiction although like you said I I don't believe although like you said I I don't believe although like you said I I don't believe porn is addictive. I think it's a poor porn is addictive. I think it's a poor porn is addictive. I think it's a poor coping mechanism for people who have coping mechanism for people who have coping mechanism for people who have anxiety and who procrastinate. That's anxiety and who procrastinate. That's anxiety and who procrastinate. That's really what it's been really what it's been really what it's been >> when I talk to men. >> when I talk to men. >> when I talk to men. >> Sedating not addicting. >> Sedating not addicting. >> Sedating not addicting. >> Yeah. Well, because if you say you have >> Yeah. Well, because if you say you have >> Yeah. Well, because if you say you have anxiety or you lack assertiveness, it's anxiety or you lack assertiveness, it's anxiety or you lack assertiveness, it's a very easy way to distract yourself and a very easy way to distract yourself and a very easy way to distract yourself and not have to deal with the problems in not have to deal with the problems in not have to deal with the problems in your life, which I have a lot of your life, which I have a lot of your life, which I have a lot of compassion for people who struggle with compassion for people who struggle with compassion for people who struggle with this because I think because it's this because I think because it's this because I think because it's pornography, it's related to sex, it's a pornography, it's related to sex, it's a pornography, it's related to sex, it's a lot more stigmatized. So, I understand lot more stigmatized. So, I understand lot more stigmatized. So, I understand why people want to call it an addiction why people want to call it an addiction why people want to call it an addiction because there have been studies that because there have been studies that because there have been studies that claim that it's addiction, but they claim that it's addiction, but they claim that it's addiction, but they don't uh account for other confounding don't uh account for other confounding don't uh account for other confounding variables. So, they don't ask about variables. So, they don't ask about variables. So, they don't ask about things like paraphilas. They don't, from things like paraphilas. They don't, from things like paraphilas. They don't, from what I've seen, they don't ask about what I've seen, they don't ask about what I've seen, they don't ask about anxiety. So you don't know when you're anxiety. So you don't know when you're anxiety. So you don't know when you're looking at these brain regions that are looking at these brain regions that are looking at these brain regions that are supposed to be different that are supposed to be different that are supposed to be different that are correlated with addiction. You don't correlated with addiction. You don't correlated with addiction. You don't know if what you're seeing in the people know if what you're seeing in the people know if what you're seeing in the people with porn problems is due to addiction with porn problems is due to addiction with porn problems is due to addiction or is it due to the fact that they're or is it due to the fact that they're or is it due to the fact that they're anxious or the the fact that they have anxious or the the fact that they have anxious or the the fact that they have these unusual sexual interests. So I these unusual sexual interests. So I these unusual sexual interests. So I think that research could be a little think that research could be a little think that research could be a little bit cleaner. If that if it does happen bit cleaner. If that if it does happen bit cleaner. If that if it does happen that new studies come out showing this, that new studies come out showing this, that new studies come out showing this, then I'm fully on board with that. But then I'm fully on board with that. But then I'm fully on board with that. But I'm just not really convinced because I'm just not really convinced because I'm just not really convinced because when you talk to guys with porn when you talk to guys with porn when you talk to guys with porn problems, almost always they have problems, almost always they have problems, almost always they have anxiety and this is a way for them to anxiety and this is a way for them to anxiety and this is a way for them to avoid talking to their spouse or their avoid talking to their spouse or their avoid talking to their spouse or their girlfriend. girlfriend. girlfriend. >> Okay. So what's different with women? >> Okay. So what's different with women? >> Okay. So what's different with women? women. I think it's the same thing. We women. I think it's the same thing. We women. I think it's the same thing. We don't know as much about women because don't know as much about women because don't know as much about women because this is an issue that I think has only this is an issue that I think has only this is an issue that I think has only really become more of a problem with the really become more of a problem with the really become more of a problem with the younger generation, maybe even younger generation, maybe even younger generation, maybe even millennial women, like younger millennial women, like younger millennial women, like younger millennial women with the accessibility millennial women with the accessibility millennial women with the accessibility of porn. But I think even cuz it's even of porn. But I think even cuz it's even of porn. But I think even cuz it's even with studies when they're looking at say with studies when they're looking at say with studies when they're looking at say the the effects of porn on kids, women the the effects of porn on kids, women the the effects of porn on kids, women have only really started to show more have only really started to show more have only really started to show more negative um body image, say, or body negative um body image, say, or body negative um body image, say, or body comparison more recently because girls comparison more recently because girls comparison more recently because girls are being exposed to it now. They girls are being exposed to it now. They girls are being exposed to it now. They girls tend to watch porn later than boys and tend to watch porn later than boys and tend to watch porn later than boys and they tend to watch it maybe once or they tend to watch it maybe once or they tend to watch it maybe once or twice out of curiosity. But I do think twice out of curiosity. But I do think twice out of curiosity. But I do think with like Gen Z, they're being exposed with like Gen Z, they're being exposed with like Gen Z, they're being exposed to this even before their first sexual to this even before their first sexual to this even before their first sexual experience, before their first orgasm. experience, before their first orgasm. experience, before their first orgasm. They can make sense of it. And I think They can make sense of it. And I think They can make sense of it. And I think that it can be integrated into their that it can be integrated into their that it can be integrated into their life a little bit more. So the same life a little bit more. So the same life a little bit more. So the same thing I think anxiety usually for anyone thing I think anxiety usually for anyone thing I think anxiety usually for anyone with a porn issue, there's a history of with a porn issue, there's a history of with a porn issue, there's a history of some form of sexual trauma some form of sexual trauma some form of sexual trauma unfortunately. So there there it's a way unfortunately. So there there it's a way unfortunately. So there there it's a way that that that >> anyone with a porn issue, most people >> anyone with a porn issue, most people >> anyone with a porn issue, most people with a porn issue, there is some history with a porn issue, there is some history with a porn issue, there is some history of sexual trauma. Not everyone, but in of sexual trauma. Not everyone, but in of sexual trauma. Not everyone, but in my experience, many of them have had my experience, many of them have had my experience, many of them have had some issue with uh yeah, either with some issue with uh yeah, either with some issue with uh yeah, either with abuse or being exposed to porn at a abuse or being exposed to porn at a abuse or being exposed to porn at a young age, either accidentally, and that young age, either accidentally, and that young age, either accidentally, and that was like a traumatic thing. Like when I was like a traumatic thing. Like when I was like a traumatic thing. Like when I say trauma, I'm not the way sometimes say trauma, I'm not the way sometimes say trauma, I'm not the way sometimes people use the word trauma nowadays is people use the word trauma nowadays is people use the word trauma nowadays is very flippant, right? They use it over very flippant, right? They use it over very flippant, right? They use it over the the the >> You mean actual >> You mean actual >> You mean actual >> insignificant thing? No. Yeah. I'm >> insignificant thing? No. Yeah. I'm >> insignificant thing? No. Yeah. I'm referring to something that is actually referring to something that is actually referring to something that is actually quite horrific and awful or they uh in quite horrific and awful or they uh in quite horrific and awful or they uh in or they might have been shown it in the or they might have been shown it in the or they might have been shown it in the process of grooming. process of grooming. process of grooming. >> So, what do what do you think's going >> So, what do what do you think's going >> So, what do what do you think's going on? Is it just disinhibition, on? Is it just disinhibition, on? Is it just disinhibition, dysregulation? Is it the same reason dysregulation? Is it the same reason dysregulation? Is it the same reason that people who maybe had a childhood that people who maybe had a childhood that people who maybe had a childhood trauma struggle with gambling or trauma struggle with gambling or trauma struggle with gambling or struggle with drugs or alcohol or their struggle with drugs or alcohol or their struggle with drugs or alcohol or their emotions, rage? Is it just the same? But emotions, rage? Is it just the same? But emotions, rage? Is it just the same? But this the particular pathway these people this the particular pathway these people this the particular pathway these people have found is porn or is there something have found is porn or is there something have found is porn or is there something specific about the the mechanism that specific about the the mechanism that specific about the the mechanism that porn gives that helps them to sort of I porn gives that helps them to sort of I porn gives that helps them to sort of I don't know alchemize or try and don't know alchemize or try and don't know alchemize or try and alchemize whatever they went through? alchemize whatever they went through? alchemize whatever they went through? >> It could be partially biological thing >> It could be partially biological thing >> It could be partially biological thing because it's like a self soothing thing. because it's like a self soothing thing. because it's like a self soothing thing. So, especially for children, if they're So, especially for children, if they're So, especially for children, if they're not taught ways to self-regulate, not taught ways to self-regulate, not taught ways to self-regulate, they're looking for ways to feel good they're looking for ways to feel good they're looking for ways to feel good when they're stressed out or upset, when they're stressed out or upset, when they're stressed out or upset, right? So, some people gravitate toward right? So, some people gravitate toward right? So, some people gravitate toward drugs and alcohol, other people might drugs and alcohol, other people might drugs and alcohol, other people might gravitate toward porn. I think it's gravitate toward porn. I think it's gravitate toward porn. I think it's depends on how old you are. Probably depends on how old you are. Probably depends on how old you are. Probably when you uh come across it initially, when you uh come across it initially, when you uh come across it initially, what your experience is when you see it, what your experience is when you see it, what your experience is when you see it, like is it a pleasurable thing? But I like is it a pleasurable thing? But I like is it a pleasurable thing? But I think for the men say who like when I think for the men say who like when I think for the men say who like when I was doing research who had had these was doing research who had had these was doing research who had had these negative experiences in childhood, it negative experiences in childhood, it negative experiences in childhood, it was a way of revisiting it to try and was a way of revisiting it to try and was a way of revisiting it to try and make sense of it. I think um but yeah, I make sense of it. I think um but yeah, I make sense of it. I think um but yeah, I I really strongly believe like sitting I really strongly believe like sitting I really strongly believe like sitting down with a competent therapist and down with a competent therapist and down with a competent therapist and working through that stuff could be very working through that stuff could be very working through that stuff could be very helpful for people helpful for people helpful for people >> better than porn. >> better than porn. >> better than porn. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Before we continue, I've been drinking >> Before we continue, I've been drinking >> Before we continue, I've been drinking AG1 every morning for as long as I can AG1 every morning for as long as I can AG1 every morning for as long as I can remember now because it is the simplest remember now because it is the simplest remember now because it is the simplest way I found to cover my bases and not way I found to cover my bases and not way I found to cover my bases and not overthink nutrition. 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Just go to the link in the description Just go to the link in the description Just go to the link in the description below or head to drinkag.com/modern below or head to drinkag.com/modern below or head to drinkag.com/modern wisdom. That's drinkagg.com/modern wisdom. What do you think about the wisdom. What do you think about the relationship between porn use and the relationship between porn use and the relationship between porn use and the type of sex that people are having type of sex that people are having type of sex that people are having >> in terms of it influencing the type of >> in terms of it influencing the type of >> in terms of it influencing the type of sex? So in terms of say very extreme sex? So in terms of say very extreme sex? So in terms of say very extreme thing previously okay I would start with thing previously okay I would start with thing previously okay I would start with before the internet. So if because before the internet. So if because before the internet. So if because there's a concern about does porn make there's a concern about does porn make there's a concern about does porn make men more violent? Does porn make men men more violent? Does porn make men men more violent? Does porn make men entitled in s with sex? Um, previously entitled in s with sex? Um, previously entitled in s with sex? Um, previously if a man grew up and had his first if a man grew up and had his first if a man grew up and had his first sexual experience prior to online porn, sexual experience prior to online porn, sexual experience prior to online porn, I would say porn is not the thing that I would say porn is not the thing that I would say porn is not the thing that made him if he is say violent or um made him if he is say violent or um made him if he is say violent or um likes to degrade his partners or or likes to degrade his partners or or likes to degrade his partners or or treat them poorly. I wouldn't say that's treat them poorly. I wouldn't say that's treat them poorly. I wouldn't say that's porn. I would say that's due to the way porn. I would say that's due to the way porn. I would say that's due to the way he was raised. He's probably antisocial, he was raised. He's probably antisocial, he was raised. He's probably antisocial, probably has some dark triad personality probably has some dark triad personality probably has some dark triad personality going on there, probably um doesn't going on there, probably um doesn't going on there, probably um doesn't think very highly of women, has a lot of think very highly of women, has a lot of think very highly of women, has a lot of hostility toward women. But those views hostility toward women. But those views hostility toward women. But those views would have been formed prior to porn. So would have been formed prior to porn. So would have been formed prior to porn. So I don't think porn is the problem. I I don't think porn is the problem. I I don't think porn is the problem. I think he probably think he probably think he probably was interested in violent porn and was interested in violent porn and was interested in violent porn and violent sex because of other factors in violent sex because of other factors in violent sex because of other factors in terms of how he was raised potentially. terms of how he was raised potentially. terms of how he was raised potentially. Nowadays with the fact that the fact Nowadays with the fact that the fact Nowadays with the fact that the fact that kids are being exposed to this so that kids are being exposed to this so that kids are being exposed to this so young, I'm really concerned about how young, I'm really concerned about how young, I'm really concerned about how this is affecting their sexuality this is affecting their sexuality this is affecting their sexuality because we do see studies coming out because we do see studies coming out because we do see studies coming out showing that kids who are having showing that kids who are having showing that kids who are having problematic sexual behaviors, it's due problematic sexual behaviors, it's due problematic sexual behaviors, it's due to being sexualized by porn like early to being sexualized by porn like early to being sexualized by porn like early exposure. this trend of sexual choking exposure. this trend of sexual choking exposure. this trend of sexual choking that I write about in sex. that I write about in sex. that I write about in sex. >> Um, young women, Gen Z women in >> Um, young women, Gen Z women in >> Um, young women, Gen Z women in particular, it's almost ubiquitous. So, particular, it's almost ubiquitous. So, particular, it's almost ubiquitous. So, I think that is being be due to them I think that is being be due to them I think that is being be due to them being exposed to this at such a young being exposed to this at such a young being exposed to this at such a young age and believing that this is what they age and believing that this is what they age and believing that this is what they need to do in order to attract men or to need to do in order to attract men or to need to do in order to attract men or to be enticing in the bedroom. be enticing in the bedroom. be enticing in the bedroom. >> And I would be very clear that you could >> And I would be very clear that you could >> And I would be very clear that you could die from doing this. So, it's not safe. die from doing this. So, it's not safe. die from doing this. So, it's not safe. There's no safe way to do it. You know, There's no safe way to do it. You know, There's no safe way to do it. You know, this was Louise Perry's thing that she this was Louise Perry's thing that she this was Louise Perry's thing that she was helping to prosecute uh guys that was helping to prosecute uh guys that was helping to prosecute uh guys that had killed their partners and then used had killed their partners and then used had killed their partners and then used whatever it is whatever it is whatever it is >> the rough sex excuse thing which uh yeah >> the rough sex excuse thing which uh yeah >> the rough sex excuse thing which uh yeah I mean that's that's [ __ ] horrific. I mean that's that's [ __ ] horrific. I mean that's that's [ __ ] horrific. Uh there is a bit of research that I Uh there is a bit of research that I Uh there is a bit of research that I wanted to talk to you about which I've wanted to talk to you about which I've wanted to talk to you about which I've never spoken about on the show before. never spoken about on the show before. never spoken about on the show before. You're probably familiar with new study You're probably familiar with new study You're probably familiar with new study interviewed 302 adults. Of those, more interviewed 302 adults. Of those, more interviewed 302 adults. Of those, more women enjoyed aggression in porn, were women enjoyed aggression in porn, were women enjoyed aggression in porn, were aroused by portrayals of female pain, aroused by portrayals of female pain, aroused by portrayals of female pain, and reported wanting to see more and reported wanting to see more and reported wanting to see more aggression. And this is a bar chart aggression. And this is a bar chart aggression. And this is a bar chart which shows women saying double the which shows women saying double the which shows women saying double the number of women saying aggression is number of women saying aggression is number of women saying aggression is arousing. Uh triple the number of men, arousing. Uh triple the number of men, arousing. Uh triple the number of men, the triple number of women to men, uh the triple number of women to men, uh the triple number of women to men, uh hard aggression is arousing. maybe four hard aggression is arousing. maybe four hard aggression is arousing. maybe four times the number of women to men would times the number of women to men would times the number of women to men would like more aggression in mainstream like more aggression in mainstream like more aggression in mainstream pornography. Uh maybe 30% more actively pornography. Uh maybe 30% more actively pornography. Uh maybe 30% more actively seek aggression. Uh the only thing that seek aggression. Uh the only thing that seek aggression. Uh the only thing that men are stronger on is aroused by women men are stronger on is aroused by women men are stronger on is aroused by women showing pleasure in response to showing pleasure in response to showing pleasure in response to aggression. And that's maybe 5%. Uh aggression. And that's maybe 5%. Uh aggression. And that's maybe 5%. Uh aroused by women showing pain in aroused by women showing pain in aroused by women showing pain in response to aggression nearly double response to aggression nearly double response to aggression nearly double women to men. women to men. women to men. Okay, Okay, Okay, >> this seems to be pretty this is a small >> this seems to be pretty this is a small >> this seems to be pretty this is a small sample size 302 people but this is you sample size 302 people but this is you sample size 302 people but this is you can dig deeper and find out can dig deeper and find out can dig deeper and find out kind of the same pattern and it's kind of the same pattern and it's kind of the same pattern and it's something that I remember I once read a something that I remember I once read a something that I remember I once read a feminist who wrote about this and she feminist who wrote about this and she feminist who wrote about this and she said something along the lines of um said something along the lines of um said something along the lines of um it's an uncomfortable fact for most it's an uncomfortable fact for most it's an uncomfortable fact for most modern feminists that women seem to modern feminists that women seem to modern feminists that women seem to prefer aggressive porn than men do. uh prefer aggressive porn than men do. uh prefer aggressive porn than men do. uh and uh misogynists use this as an excuse and uh misogynists use this as an excuse and uh misogynists use this as an excuse that like she wanted it made that like she wanted it made that like she wanted it made >> uh type thing. >> uh type thing. >> uh type thing. That to me does suggest that the picture That to me does suggest that the picture That to me does suggest that the picture is a little bit more complex than just is a little bit more complex than just is a little bit more complex than just guys have learned it in porn. guys have learned it in porn. guys have learned it in porn. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And now they're doing it to women and >> And now they're doing it to women and >> And now they're doing it to women and women feel the need to perform up to it. women feel the need to perform up to it. women feel the need to perform up to it. That That That >> no one's pushing women in that way. It's >> no one's pushing women in that way. It's >> no one's pushing women in that way. It's not the only study of that kind. And um not the only study of that kind. And um not the only study of that kind. And um >> no, I agree. I I'm not one of those >> no, I agree. I I'm not one of those >> no, I agree. I I'm not one of those people that think that this is entirely people that think that this is entirely people that think that this is entirely like men pushing it on women and women like men pushing it on women and women like men pushing it on women and women have no choice but to do it. I do think have no choice but to do it. I do think have no choice but to do it. I do think there are some women out there that's there are some women out there that's there are some women out there that's sexual masochism. sexual masochism. sexual masochism. >> So it's like sexual arousal at the idea >> So it's like sexual arousal at the idea >> So it's like sexual arousal at the idea of being hurt, humiliated, degraded by of being hurt, humiliated, degraded by of being hurt, humiliated, degraded by your partner. So that's the only your partner. So that's the only your partner. So that's the only paraphilia that you actually find in paraphilia that you actually find in paraphilia that you actually find in women typically. So usually women if women typically. So usually women if women typically. So usually women if >> Oh, that's so sorry. That's so >> Oh, that's so sorry. That's so >> Oh, that's so sorry. That's so interesting. The only paraphilia that's interesting. The only paraphilia that's interesting. The only paraphilia that's typical in women, paraphilia being sign typical in women, paraphilia being sign typical in women, paraphilia being sign of odd sexual uh proclivities of odd sexual uh proclivities of odd sexual uh proclivities >> is >> is >> is >> masochism. If you do, if >> masochism. If you do, if >> masochism. If you do, if >> selfm masochism >> selfm masochism >> selfm masochism >> um yeah, masochism is when it's >> um yeah, masochism is when it's >> um yeah, masochism is when it's happening to you. Sadism is when you're happening to you. Sadism is when you're happening to you. Sadism is when you're doing it to someone else. doing it to someone else. doing it to someone else. >> Okay, cool. Cool. How much sadism is >> Okay, cool. Cool. How much sadism is >> Okay, cool. Cool. How much sadism is there in women? there in women? there in women? >> Um so when you do see other paraphilios >> Um so when you do see other paraphilios >> Um so when you do see other paraphilios like sadism, it usually is uh correlated like sadism, it usually is uh correlated like sadism, it usually is uh correlated with personality disorders, with personality disorders, with personality disorders, >> right? They're supposed to be dark. >> right? They're supposed to be dark. >> right? They're supposed to be dark. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. Anyway, so the uh say the >> Okay. Anyway, so the uh say the >> Okay. Anyway, so the uh say the masochism for women. masochism for women. masochism for women. >> Yeah. So evolutionarily it could be >> Yeah. So evolutionarily it could be >> Yeah. So evolutionarily it could be because women well women's bodies have because women well women's bodies have because women well women's bodies have you heard of the study where women you heard of the study where women you heard of the study where women basically are roused to any type of basically are roused to any type of basically are roused to any type of porn. So it's whether it's more sexually porn. So it's whether it's more sexually porn. So it's whether it's more sexually fluid girl on girl guy on guy girl on fluid girl on girl guy on guy girl on fluid girl on girl guy on guy girl on guy. Well this is why this is why guy. Well this is why this is why guy. Well this is why this is why >> just to be clear animals having sex not >> just to be clear animals having sex not >> just to be clear animals having sex not people having sex with animals. I don't people having sex with animals. I don't people having sex with animals. I don't agree with bey agree with bey agree with bey >> what's that uh [ __ ] hockey players >> what's that uh [ __ ] hockey players >> what's that uh [ __ ] hockey players the two hockey players boning. What's the two hockey players boning. What's the two hockey players boning. What's that thing that it's that series hot that thing that it's that series hot that thing that it's that series hot one? Not hot ones. That's the wing one? Not hot ones. That's the wing one? Not hot ones. That's the wing thing. What the [ __ ] is it? thing. What the [ __ ] is it? thing. What the [ __ ] is it? >> Two hockey players. >> Two hockey players. >> Two hockey players. >> Two hockey players. It's the It's taken >> Two hockey players. It's the It's taken >> Two hockey players. It's the It's taken the world by storm. Heated rivalry. the world by storm. Heated rivalry. the world by storm. Heated rivalry. [ __ ] hot ones. Heated Rivalry. I knew [ __ ] hot ones. Heated Rivalry. I knew [ __ ] hot ones. Heated Rivalry. I knew I got there. You're Canadian. You're I got there. You're Canadian. You're I got there. You're Canadian. You're supposed to know. I Sorry. It was a hard supposed to know. I Sorry. It was a hard supposed to know. I Sorry. It was a hard week for you. Um week for you. Um week for you. Um >> I don't actually watch porn, so that >> I don't actually watch porn, so that >> I don't actually watch porn, so that might be why I've never heard of might be why I've never heard of might be why I've never heard of >> Heated Rivalry was a book. It was a book >> Heated Rivalry was a book. It was a book >> Heated Rivalry was a book. It was a book about these two hockey players on about these two hockey players on about these two hockey players on opposing teams and then they they they opposing teams and then they they they opposing teams and then they they they [ __ ] each other. [ __ ] each other. [ __ ] each other. >> Why are you reading this? >> Why are you reading this? >> Why are you reading this? >> I'm not reading it. Right. This is a big >> I'm not reading it. Right. This is a big >> I'm not reading it. Right. This is a big TV show. I didn't see I've not I've TV show. I didn't see I've not I've TV show. I didn't see I've not I've never seen anything like this. I'm the never seen anything like this. I'm the never seen anything like this. I'm the straightest man in the room. Um this straightest man in the room. Um this straightest man in the room. Um this >> this has this has broken the internet >> this has this has broken the internet >> this has this has broken the internet and uh it's you you should absolutely and uh it's you you should absolutely and uh it's you you should absolutely have a look at this. I'll do some love have a look at this. I'll do some love have a look at this. I'll do some love to look at this studio. So it is it is to look at this studio. So it is it is to look at this studio. So it is it is >> basically revealing >> basically revealing >> basically revealing just how flexible women's sexualities just how flexible women's sexualities just how flexible women's sexualities are. are. are. >> Yeah. that these two guys, there was a >> Yeah. that these two guys, there was a >> Yeah. that these two guys, there was a book book super popular, then pivoted book book super popular, then pivoted book book super popular, then pivoted over into this TV series, and the TV over into this TV series, and the TV over into this TV series, and the TV series is [ __ ] ripped. It's like series is [ __ ] ripped. It's like series is [ __ ] ripped. It's like a Brokeback Mountain on ice, right? a Brokeback Mountain on ice, right? a Brokeback Mountain on ice, right? >> But was it actually pornographic or was >> But was it actually pornographic or was >> But was it actually pornographic or was it just like hinted? it just like hinted? it just like hinted? >> Asking the wrong guy. I'm sorry. >> Asking the wrong guy. I'm sorry. >> Asking the wrong guy. I'm sorry. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> I didn't get I mean, I I have to assume >> I didn't get I mean, I I have to assume >> I didn't get I mean, I I have to assume that there was either implied or like that there was either implied or like that there was either implied or like pretty close to like runchy [ __ ] pretty close to like runchy [ __ ] pretty close to like runchy [ __ ] happening on the on the screen. happening on the on the screen. happening on the on the screen. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Um anyway, that that you're quite right. >> Um anyway, that that you're quite right. >> Um anyway, that that you're quite right. Why is it that you think that women's Why is it that you think that women's Why is it that you think that women's sexuality is more fluid than uh men's? sexuality is more fluid than uh men's? sexuality is more fluid than uh men's? >> Well, uh the unfortunate reason is very >> Well, uh the unfortunate reason is very >> Well, uh the unfortunate reason is very so in the past, right? Evolutionarily so in the past, right? Evolutionarily so in the past, right? Evolutionarily speaking, it protects the woman's body speaking, it protects the woman's body speaking, it protects the woman's body if she can become aroused regardless of if she can become aroused regardless of if she can become aroused regardless of what is happening. what is happening. what is happening. >> Which is why sometimes during sexual >> Which is why sometimes during sexual >> Which is why sometimes during sexual assault, women can still reach orgasm assault, women can still reach orgasm assault, women can still reach orgasm and then they feel loads of shame and then they feel loads of shame and then they feel loads of shame afterward because it's [ __ ] horrific. afterward because it's [ __ ] horrific. afterward because it's [ __ ] horrific. They think, did I want that? Did I want They think, did I want that? Did I want They think, did I want that? Did I want this thing? How [ __ ] awful am I? I I this thing? How [ __ ] awful am I? I I this thing? How [ __ ] awful am I? I I I'm traumatized and now I did my body I'm traumatized and now I did my body I'm traumatized and now I did my body did a thing to me that I am traumatized did a thing to me that I am traumatized did a thing to me that I am traumatized about as well. It's so brutal. about as well. It's so brutal. about as well. It's so brutal. >> Speaking speaking to those findings >> Speaking speaking to those findings >> Speaking speaking to those findings though, um I'm I would be curious to though, um I'm I would be curious to though, um I'm I would be curious to know where how they sampled like do you know where how they sampled like do you know where how they sampled like do you do you remember like how they sampled do you remember like how they sampled do you remember like how they sampled for those women? for those women? for those women? >> Uh preferences related to aggression, >> Uh preferences related to aggression, >> Uh preferences related to aggression, pleasure and pain and pornography among pleasure and pain and pornography among pleasure and pain and pornography among male and female interviewees. I've got male and female interviewees. I've got male and female interviewees. I've got the it's uh I can send you the the the it's uh I can send you the the the it's uh I can send you the the journal article. But certainly even if journal article. But certainly even if journal article. But certainly even if we don't look at aggression is arousing, we don't look at aggression is arousing, we don't look at aggression is arousing, hard aggression is arousing. Like would hard aggression is arousing. Like would hard aggression is arousing. Like would like more aggression in mainstream like more aggression in mainstream like more aggression in mainstream pornography actively seek aggression pornography actively seek aggression pornography actively seek aggression aroused by women showing pain in aroused by women showing pain in aroused by women showing pain in response to aggression. Just look at the response to aggression. Just look at the response to aggression. Just look at the romantic genre. romantic genre. romantic genre. >> Mhm. Well, evolutionarily speaking, like >> Mhm. Well, evolutionarily speaking, like >> Mhm. Well, evolutionarily speaking, like in terms of masochism, it would benefit in terms of masochism, it would benefit in terms of masochism, it would benefit women to show a women to show a women to show a >> capacity to endure pain. >> capacity to endure pain. >> capacity to endure pain. >> Yeah. or or like it's not I don't want >> Yeah. or or like it's not I don't want >> Yeah. or or like it's not I don't want to say subjugation but it make it it to say subjugation but it make it it to say subjugation but it make it it evokes like caretaking behaviors for men evokes like caretaking behaviors for men evokes like caretaking behaviors for men right if they see that a woman is right if they see that a woman is right if they see that a woman is >> great >> great >> great >> um like in need of help or support >> um like in need of help or support >> um like in need of help or support >> I suppose so to a degree but there's >> I suppose so to a degree but there's >> I suppose so to a degree but there's also a kind of resilience in massochism also a kind of resilience in massochism also a kind of resilience in massochism right that I can withstand it there's right that I can withstand it there's right that I can withstand it there's almost anti-fragility not a fragility almost anti-fragility not a fragility almost anti-fragility not a fragility >> that goes back to the trauma that I talk >> that goes back to the trauma that I talk >> that goes back to the trauma that I talk about sexinction and the um is in the about sexinction and the um is in the about sexinction and the um is in the porn chapter about how many indiv porn chapter about how many indiv porn chapter about how many indiv individuals who are into BDSM and kink individuals who are into BDSM and kink individuals who are into BDSM and kink actually do have a history especially of actually do have a history especially of actually do have a history especially of physical abuse in childhood. physical abuse in childhood. physical abuse in childhood. >> Oh, I imagine that made you very >> Oh, I imagine that made you very >> Oh, I imagine that made you very popular. popular. popular. >> It's still happening now. People >> It's still happening now. People >> It's still happening now. People >> because you were a sex positive right >> because you were a sex positive right >> because you were a sex positive right research writer person, right? research writer person, right? research writer person, right? >> Yeah, I was a columnist for a well-known >> Yeah, I was a columnist for a well-known >> Yeah, I was a columnist for a well-known men's magazine with nude women in it. men's magazine with nude women in it. men's magazine with nude women in it. And um writing this book, I was so And um writing this book, I was so And um writing this book, I was so grateful to have the chance to sit down grateful to have the chance to sit down grateful to have the chance to sit down and really question a lot of the beliefs and really question a lot of the beliefs and really question a lot of the beliefs I had. And I went through my own data I had. And I went through my own data I had. And I went through my own data that I collected when I was still in sex that I collected when I was still in sex that I collected when I was still in sex research and I found the same thing. And research and I found the same thing. And research and I found the same thing. And I was amazed. I thought I was amazed. I thought I was amazed. I thought >> what do you mean you went through the >> what do you mean you went through the >> what do you mean you went through the data and what did you find? data and what did you find? data and what did you find? >> I found that interest in BDSM and kink >> I found that interest in BDSM and kink >> I found that interest in BDSM and kink is more is correlated with severe is more is correlated with severe is more is correlated with severe physical abuse abuse and childhood and physical abuse abuse and childhood and physical abuse abuse and childhood and this is even more so the case for men this is even more so the case for men this is even more so the case for men who are into BDSM and kink as compared who are into BDSM and kink as compared who are into BDSM and kink as compared to men who are community controls to men who are community controls to men who are community controls obviously men who have porn problems who obviously men who have porn problems who obviously men who have porn problems who are not into BDSM or kink and also more are not into BDSM or kink and also more are not into BDSM or kink and also more so the case than men who are convicted so the case than men who are convicted so the case than men who are convicted of child sex crimes. So there's of child sex crimes. So there's of child sex crimes. So there's something with physical something with physical something with physical >> BDSM and king >> BDSM and king >> BDSM and king >> is a better predictor of male childhood >> is a better predictor of male childhood >> is a better predictor of male childhood abuse trauma abuse trauma abuse trauma >> female too >> female too >> female too >> but than than pedophilia >> but than than pedophilia >> but than than pedophilia >> victimization um yeah well convicted sex >> victimization um yeah well convicted sex >> victimization um yeah well convicted sex offenses or pornography offenses or pornography offenses or pornography >> so we don't know how many of those are >> so we don't know how many of those are >> so we don't know how many of those are unreported and stuff like that unreported and stuff like that unreported and stuff like that >> right but also there are times when men >> right but also there are times when men >> right but also there are times when men will abuse children and not necessarily will abuse children and not necessarily will abuse children and not necessarily be pedophil that's like fine you know be pedophil that's like fine you know be pedophil that's like fine you know very fine details but overall yeah yeah very fine details but overall yeah yeah very fine details but overall yeah yeah child sex cards. child sex cards. child sex cards. >> What do you think that says about what >> What do you think that says about what >> What do you think that says about what BDSM and kink is doing for people? BDSM and kink is doing for people? BDSM and kink is doing for people? >> It's really sad. I I want to be clear >> It's really sad. I I want to be clear >> It's really sad. I I want to be clear like I'm not saying this to to make like I'm not saying this to to make like I'm not saying this to to make judgment about people or to try and judgment about people or to try and judgment about people or to try and shame them. I really hope my in bringing shame them. I really hope my in bringing shame them. I really hope my in bringing awareness to this because BDSM is so awareness to this because BDSM is so awareness to this because BDSM is so common place in society, right? It's so common place in society, right? It's so common place in society, right? It's so normalized almost. It's almost seem like normalized almost. It's almost seem like normalized almost. It's almost seem like there there is a variation I think in there there is a variation I think in there there is a variation I think in terms of people who just who might terms of people who just who might terms of people who just who might partake in sexual activity that is like partake in sexual activity that is like partake in sexual activity that is like playful or passionate, right? versus playful or passionate, right? versus playful or passionate, right? versus wanting to strangle your partner, wanting to strangle your partner, wanting to strangle your partner, wanting to really hurt them, wanting to wanting to really hurt them, wanting to wanting to really hurt them, wanting to humiliate them, or if you enjoy those humiliate them, or if you enjoy those humiliate them, or if you enjoy those behaviors done to you, behaviors done to you, behaviors done to you, >> especially for women, because physical >> especially for women, because physical >> especially for women, because physical harm, it wouldn't really make sense for harm, it wouldn't really make sense for harm, it wouldn't really make sense for women or men, but why would physical women or men, but why would physical women or men, but why would physical harm be correlated with orgasm, harm be correlated with orgasm, harm be correlated with orgasm, >> right? If you can potentially become >> right? If you can potentially become >> right? If you can potentially become pregnant from this act, why would it be pregnant from this act, why would it be pregnant from this act, why would it be beneficial to you and your offspring to beneficial to you and your offspring to beneficial to you and your offspring to find physical pain? And find physical pain? And find physical pain? And >> what do you think? >> what do you think? >> what do you think? >> Arousing. >> Arousing. >> Arousing. >> Yeah. Why? >> Yeah. Why? >> Yeah. Why? >> Why? because something went wrong with >> Why? because something went wrong with >> Why? because something went wrong with the system the system the system >> and it's getting wires crossed. >> and it's getting wires crossed. >> and it's getting wires crossed. >> Yeah. So, I my hope is that by bringing >> Yeah. So, I my hope is that by bringing >> Yeah. So, I my hope is that by bringing attention to this because so many people attention to this because so many people attention to this because so many people I sense enjoy these things but don't I sense enjoy these things but don't I sense enjoy these things but don't really know why or they think it's really know why or they think it's really know why or they think it's something that there's something it's something that there's something it's something that there's something it's something they take pride in and I think something they take pride in and I think something they take pride in and I think maybe it's something that you should maybe it's something that you should maybe it's something that you should look a little more deeply into. look a little more deeply into. look a little more deeply into. >> They're using their >> They're using their >> They're using their uh sexual preferences as a way to work uh sexual preferences as a way to work uh sexual preferences as a way to work through something that maybe should be through something that maybe should be through something that maybe should be done with a therapist. done with a therapist. done with a therapist. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Interesting. So, I remember I was >> Interesting. So, I remember I was >> Interesting. So, I remember I was talking to a researcher and they were talking to a researcher and they were talking to a researcher and they were telling me about how telling me about how telling me about how this this this maybe not uncontacted tribe, but this maybe not uncontacted tribe, but this maybe not uncontacted tribe, but this relatively um relatively uncontacted relatively um relatively uncontacted relatively um relatively uncontacted tribe. One of the rights of passage that tribe. One of the rights of passage that tribe. One of the rights of passage that they had for women was that men would they had for women was that men would they had for women was that men would get uh reads, thick reads and sticks, get uh reads, thick reads and sticks, get uh reads, thick reads and sticks, whippy sticks, and they would stand whippy sticks, and they would stand whippy sticks, and they would stand there and they would whip the women there and they would whip the women there and they would whip the women across their bags. like these every across their bags. like these every across their bags. like these every woman in the the um tribe had huge scars woman in the the um tribe had huge scars woman in the the um tribe had huge scars everywhere across their backs. And the everywhere across their backs. And the everywhere across their backs. And the goal of the women was to be able to goal of the women was to be able to goal of the women was to be able to stand there and not flinch, stand there and not flinch, stand there and not flinch, >> not make noise, not cry, not whimper, >> not make noise, not cry, not whimper, >> not make noise, not cry, not whimper, not yell, not do anything. And this was not yell, not do anything. And this was not yell, not do anything. And this was supposed to be a a presentation of their supposed to be a a presentation of their supposed to be a a presentation of their capacity to endure what would become capacity to endure what would become capacity to endure what would become giving birth, child rearing. And that giving birth, child rearing. And that giving birth, child rearing. And that when you were talking about um it might when you were talking about um it might when you were talking about um it might engender sympathy from men, which I can engender sympathy from men, which I can engender sympathy from men, which I can completely see like the just the power completely see like the just the power completely see like the just the power dynamic, the subjugation, dynamic, the subjugation, dynamic, the subjugation, uh all of that that that does make uh all of that that that does make uh all of that that that does make sense. Allow me to come and hold you. sense. Allow me to come and hold you. sense. Allow me to come and hold you. But if you're able to withstand pain, But if you're able to withstand pain, But if you're able to withstand pain, there's also a kind of resilience in there's also a kind of resilience in there's also a kind of resilience in that which I think would almost work that which I think would almost work that which I think would almost work against it. So yeah, kind of against it. So yeah, kind of against it. So yeah, kind of interesting. I always think about that interesting. I always think about that interesting. I always think about that that example when it comes to sort of that example when it comes to sort of that example when it comes to sort of female behavior in kink. I'm like, is female behavior in kink. I'm like, is female behavior in kink. I'm like, is this maybe some kind of demonstration of this maybe some kind of demonstration of this maybe some kind of demonstration of my capacity of the woman's capacity to my capacity of the woman's capacity to my capacity of the woman's capacity to uh endure hard things physically? Uh not uh endure hard things physically? Uh not uh endure hard things physically? Uh not like lift heavy things, right? That's like lift heavy things, right? That's like lift heavy things, right? That's the guy picking you up and putting you the guy picking you up and putting you the guy picking you up and putting you against the wall. That's the ability for against the wall. That's the ability for against the wall. That's the ability for him to physically dominate you. But the him to physically dominate you. But the him to physically dominate you. But the woman's ability to endure the pain might woman's ability to endure the pain might woman's ability to endure the pain might actually be maybe like a fertility cue actually be maybe like a fertility cue actually be maybe like a fertility cue of some kind like my pain tolerance. I of some kind like my pain tolerance. I of some kind like my pain tolerance. I don't know. don't know. don't know. >> It could be. I could see if >> It could be. I could see if >> It could be. I could see if >> real nent idea wet clay. All right. >> real nent idea wet clay. All right. >> real nent idea wet clay. All right. >> I could see it if it is something that >> I could see it if it is something that >> I could see it if it is something that is like culturally enforced and it's is like culturally enforced and it's is like culturally enforced and it's like a right of passage. But if you as a like a right of passage. But if you as a like a right of passage. But if you as a woman are intentionally putting yourself woman are intentionally putting yourself woman are intentionally putting yourself in those situations when you don't need in those situations when you don't need in those situations when you don't need to. There are plenty of guys out there to. There are plenty of guys out there to. There are plenty of guys out there who are I mean vanilla is seen as a who are I mean vanilla is seen as a who are I mean vanilla is seen as a negative thing. I don't think being negative thing. I don't think being negative thing. I don't think being vanilla is a bad thing. So, there are vanilla is a bad thing. So, there are vanilla is a bad thing. So, there are plenty of vanilla guys out there who are plenty of vanilla guys out there who are plenty of vanilla guys out there who are not going to want to strangle you during not going to want to strangle you during not going to want to strangle you during sex and not going to want to like, sex and not going to want to like, sex and not going to want to like, >> you know, degrade you during sex. So, if >> you know, degrade you during sex. So, if >> you know, degrade you during sex. So, if you're intentionally putting yourself you're intentionally putting yourself you're intentionally putting yourself through that, even if it is a way to through that, even if it is a way to through that, even if it is a way to show how strong you are, why would you show how strong you are, why would you show how strong you are, why would you choose to do that choose to do that choose to do that >> when you don't need to? >> when you don't need to? >> when you don't need to? >> When you don't need to. >> When you don't need to. >> When you don't need to. >> Uh, romantic. I was sat on the plane >> Uh, romantic. I was sat on the plane >> Uh, romantic. I was sat on the plane flying to St. Louis a couple of weeks flying to St. Louis a couple of weeks flying to St. Louis a couple of weeks ago and there was a lovely woman sat ago and there was a lovely woman sat ago and there was a lovely woman sat next to me and she had her iPad up and next to me and she had her iPad up and next to me and she had her iPad up and she was reading Court of Thorns and she was reading Court of Thorns and she was reading Court of Thorns and Roses. Roses. Roses. >> Now, what is that? That is >> Now, what is that? That is >> Now, what is that? That is >> that is one of the most popular romanty >> that is one of the most popular romanty >> that is one of the most popular romanty books at the moment. You're familiar books at the moment. You're familiar books at the moment. You're familiar with romantic with romantic with romantic >> is it? It's basically like erotica. >> is it? It's basically like erotica. >> is it? It's basically like erotica. >> It is. >> It is. >> It is. That's probably that that's a word that That's probably that that's a word that That's probably that that's a word that you would use. Okay. Um I respect the you would use. Okay. Um I respect the you would use. Okay. Um I respect the art form and also the fact that the fan art form and also the fact that the fan art form and also the fact that the fan base is [ __ ] massive and I don't want base is [ __ ] massive and I don't want base is [ __ ] massive and I don't want to get lynched by them. Uh no no it it to get lynched by them. Uh no no it it to get lynched by them. Uh no no it it is it is um story. is it is um story. is it is um story. It it's female lit It it's female lit It it's female lit literacy porn wrapped in quite a lot of literacy porn wrapped in quite a lot of literacy porn wrapped in quite a lot of story, but there are sort of peak dirty story, but there are sort of peak dirty story, but there are sort of peak dirty moments. Anyway, the our friend is moments. Anyway, the our friend is moments. Anyway, the our friend is tapping away and she didn't have her tapping away and she didn't have her tapping away and she didn't have her glasses on. The font size was quite glasses on. The font size was quite glasses on. The font size was quite >> okay >> okay >> okay >> quite large and I I had a realization >> quite large and I I had a realization >> quite large and I I had a realization that chicks can basically watch porn on that chicks can basically watch porn on that chicks can basically watch porn on a plane, a plane, a plane, >> I guess. So, >> I guess. So, >> I guess. So, >> they can basically watch their >> they can basically watch their >> they can basically watch their equivalent of porn on a plane. And I'm equivalent of porn on a plane. And I'm equivalent of porn on a plane. And I'm looking looking looking at this. I'm trying not to move my head at this. I'm trying not to move my head at this. I'm trying not to move my head at all. I'm keeping my head dead at all. I'm keeping my head dead at all. I'm keeping my head dead straight. I'm going uh and I spoke to some friends uh and I spoke to some friends afterward. I've not read the book. I afterward. I've not read the book. I afterward. I've not read the book. I didn't I didn't read enough to fully didn't I didn't read enough to fully didn't I didn't read enough to fully capture what the narrative arc was. capture what the narrative arc was. capture what the narrative arc was. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Um but in might be a Court of Thorns and >> Um but in might be a Court of Thorns and >> Um but in might be a Court of Thorns and Roses or one of the other books like Roses or one of the other books like Roses or one of the other books like that. uh the protagonist is a fairy that. uh the protagonist is a fairy that. uh the protagonist is a fairy prince or a fairy king who has the prince or a fairy king who has the prince or a fairy king who has the ability to transform himself into this ability to transform himself into this ability to transform himself into this like monstrous beast. And I think that like monstrous beast. And I think that like monstrous beast. And I think that in that sort of shows what it is that in that sort of shows what it is that in that sort of shows what it is that one of the sort of archetypal desires one of the sort of archetypal desires one of the sort of archetypal desires that women have this um he is dangerous that women have this um he is dangerous that women have this um he is dangerous but not around me. but not around me. but not around me. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I think >> And I think >> And I think >> I was talking on the way in about that >> I was talking on the way in about that >> I was talking on the way in about that that study with a couple of friends. I that study with a couple of friends. I that study with a couple of friends. I have a group of uh evolutionary have a group of uh evolutionary have a group of uh evolutionary psychology researchers in a WhatsApp psychology researchers in a WhatsApp psychology researchers in a WhatsApp chat and whenever I get confused by chat and whenever I get confused by chat and whenever I get confused by stuff I put it in and they gave me the stuff I put it in and they gave me the stuff I put it in and they gave me the answer and Thomas from Uni of Nottingham answer and Thomas from Uni of Nottingham answer and Thomas from Uni of Nottingham gave me a [ __ ] fantastic answer for gave me a [ __ ] fantastic answer for gave me a [ __ ] fantastic answer for this one. What he said was the this one. What he said was the this one. What he said was the aggression is arousing etc etc etc. I'd aggression is arousing etc etc etc. I'd aggression is arousing etc etc etc. I'd love to get your thoughts on this. He love to get your thoughts on this. He love to get your thoughts on this. He said um what women think is I want a man said um what women think is I want a man said um what women think is I want a man who has the capability to be aggressive who has the capability to be aggressive who has the capability to be aggressive because protection, attraction, because protection, attraction, because protection, attraction, dominance, all that stuff, dominance, all that stuff, dominance, all that stuff, >> high testosterone, >> high testosterone, >> high testosterone, >> but he'll never be aggressive with me. >> but he'll never be aggressive with me. >> but he'll never be aggressive with me. >> Mhm. And it's a a a patent >> Mhm. And it's a a a patent >> Mhm. And it's a a a patent misfiring of the sort of patent misfiring of the sort of patent misfiring of the sort of patent detection, which is well, most guys that detection, which is well, most guys that detection, which is well, most guys that have the capacity to be aggressive don't have the capacity to be aggressive don't have the capacity to be aggressive don't have the regulation to be able to turn have the regulation to be able to turn have the regulation to be able to turn it off and create bright lines and and it off and create bright lines and and it off and create bright lines and and and contain it in that way. Uh if you and contain it in that way. Uh if you and contain it in that way. Uh if you have a guy who is a just a you know have a guy who is a just a you know have a guy who is a just a you know someone bumps into you on the street or someone bumps into you on the street or someone bumps into you on the street or you you get scared and he beats up all you you get scared and he beats up all you you get scared and he beats up all of the guys that are there. How many of of the guys that are there. How many of of the guys that are there. How many of them have gone through the full [ __ ] them have gone through the full [ __ ] them have gone through the full [ __ ] samurai Keanu Reeves training and come samurai Keanu Reeves training and come samurai Keanu Reeves training and come out the other side as you know that's out the other side as you know that's out the other side as you know that's not that's not most guys most guys that not that's not most guys most guys that not that's not most guys most guys that are great and dangerous physically are great and dangerous physically are great and dangerous physically >> are just dangerous physically >> are just dangerous physically >> are just dangerous physically everywhere. Uh not in Yes. that it's everywhere. Uh not in Yes. that it's everywhere. Uh not in Yes. that it's it's not um compartmentalized. it's not um compartmentalized. it's not um compartmentalized. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I definitely agree. So >> Yeah. Yeah. I I definitely agree. So >> Yeah. Yeah. I I definitely agree. So that I that's the allure of I suppose that I that's the allure of I suppose that I that's the allure of I suppose the romance novel where you can have the the romance novel where you can have the the romance novel where you can have the duality there that doesn't duality there that doesn't duality there that doesn't >> fairy king who can become the beast but >> fairy king who can become the beast but >> fairy king who can become the beast but he's never going to be the beast with he's never going to be the beast with he's never going to be the beast with you. you. you. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Um >> Um >> Um yeah. Interesting. So we have basically yeah. Interesting. So we have basically yeah. Interesting. So we have basically the most sexually permissive culture in the most sexually permissive culture in the most sexually permissive culture in history that is also having the least history that is also having the least history that is also having the least amount of sex. amount of sex. amount of sex. >> Yeah. Which is wild. >> Yeah. Which is wild. >> Yeah. Which is wild. It's crazy when you think about like I It's crazy when you think about like I It's crazy when you think about like I was thinking about social media and even was thinking about social media and even was thinking about social media and even something as subtle as that like something as subtle as that like something as subtle as that like everyone's on social media. But I do everyone's on social media. But I do everyone's on social media. But I do think it even that is changing the way think it even that is changing the way think it even that is changing the way that people view potential partners, how that people view potential partners, how that people view potential partners, how they view their own partners. How they view their own partners. How they view their own partners. How >> so? >> so? >> so? >> Study that I cited in sex showing that >> Study that I cited in sex showing that >> Study that I cited in sex showing that roughly one in 10 men actually loses roughly one in 10 men actually loses roughly one in 10 men actually loses interest in having sex with his own interest in having sex with his own interest in having sex with his own partner after looking at influencers and partner after looking at influencers and partner after looking at influencers and that women also feel less sexually that women also feel less sexually that women also feel less sexually desirable after being on social media. desirable after being on social media. desirable after being on social media. One in 10 men lose lose interest One in 10 men lose lose interest One in 10 men lose lose interest >> like for a brief window of time. >> like for a brief window of time. >> like for a brief window of time. >> They didn't specify. >> They didn't specify. >> They didn't specify. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Okay. Yeah. >> So, they're less that they're less >> So, they're less that they're less >> So, they're less that they're less interested in having real sex with their interested in having real sex with their interested in having real sex with their partner partner partner >> when they've been looking at influences >> when they've been looking at influences >> when they've been looking at influences on the internet. on the internet. on the internet. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, I do remember at uni so [ __ ] bad. >> So, I do remember at uni so [ __ ] bad. >> So, I do remember at uni so [ __ ] bad. >> That was an English study, too, >> That was an English study, too, >> That was an English study, too, actually. So, actually. So, actually. So, >> good. Well, it probably it was probably >> good. Well, it probably it was probably >> good. Well, it probably it was probably the people that used to that I used to the people that used to that I used to the people that used to that I used to employ. It was probably the lads that employ. It was probably the lads that employ. It was probably the lads that used to work for me. I do remember um used to work for me. I do remember um used to work for me. I do remember um there was two two guys that uh were there was two two guys that uh were there was two two guys that uh were going to go on first dates with these going to go on first dates with these going to go on first dates with these two chicks two nights in a row. On the two chicks two nights in a row. On the two chicks two nights in a row. On the first one, he turned up and he ended up first one, he turned up and he ended up first one, he turned up and he ended up going back with her and having sex. Um going back with her and having sex. Um going back with her and having sex. Um but he said she looked nothing like her but he said she looked nothing like her but he said she looked nothing like her Instagram. It was gutting. It's like she Instagram. It was gutting. It's like she Instagram. It was gutting. It's like she was so hot on the Instagram. He kind of was so hot on the Instagram. He kind of was so hot on the Instagram. He kind of like a catfish type thing. And he had like a catfish type thing. And he had like a catfish type thing. And he had this joke about he wondered if he could this joke about he wondered if he could this joke about he wondered if he could have just cellaraped her Instagram to have just cellaraped her Instagram to have just cellaraped her Instagram to her forehead so he could have looked at her forehead so he could have looked at her forehead so he could have looked at that. Uh, and then the next night that. Uh, and then the next night that. Uh, and then the next night the guy went out on one and she was the guy went out on one and she was the guy went out on one and she was really lovely and great and then I don't really lovely and great and then I don't really lovely and great and then I don't think they they'd slept with each other think they they'd slept with each other think they they'd slept with each other that night and he came back and looked that night and he came back and looked that night and he came back and looked at her Instagram and got turned off at her Instagram and got turned off at her Instagram and got turned off because she wasn't able to present because she wasn't able to present because she wasn't able to present herself in the marketplace of herself in the marketplace of herself in the marketplace of >> that's a good thing. No, >> that's a good thing. No, >> that's a good thing. No, >> I said that. That's what I said. That's >> I said that. That's what I said. That's >> I said that. That's what I said. That's what I said. I was like, "Dude, you what I said. I was like, "Dude, you what I said. I was like, "Dude, you found a barn find. That's a diamond in found a barn find. That's a diamond in found a barn find. That's a diamond in the rough. You found somebody that's um the rough. You found somebody that's um the rough. You found somebody that's um really fantastic. She shows up. It's really fantastic. She shows up. It's really fantastic. She shows up. It's wonderful in person that the marketplace wonderful in person that the marketplace wonderful in person that the marketplace where most other people are going to be where most other people are going to be where most other people are going to be competing for with you for her. She's competing for with you for her. She's competing for with you for her. She's she just not present. I had an update. I she just not present. I had an update. I she just not present. I had an update. I don't know what what it was. I didn't do don't know what what it was. I didn't do don't know what what it was. I didn't do my research. Uh my research. Uh my research. Uh >> so what is it he didn't like about the >> so what is it he didn't like about the >> so what is it he didn't like about the fact that like so he can't send people fact that like so he can't send people fact that like so he can't send people to her profile to look at her? to her profile to look at her? to her profile to look at her? >> No, you just I think that there was a it >> No, you just I think that there was a it >> No, you just I think that there was a it wasn't even as deep as that. Sorry, it wasn't even as deep as that. Sorry, it wasn't even as deep as that. Sorry, it was significantly more deep than that. was significantly more deep than that. was significantly more deep than that. Not that he couldn't show off this girl Not that he couldn't show off this girl Not that he couldn't show off this girl that could potentially become his that could potentially become his that could potentially become his girlfriend or whatever to other people girlfriend or whatever to other people girlfriend or whatever to other people on Instagram. on Instagram. on Instagram. I think it I think it I think it what I believed it to be was he was so what I believed it to be was he was so what I believed it to be was he was so conditioned conditioned conditioned to judging a woman's attractiveness to judging a woman's attractiveness to judging a woman's attractiveness through her social media profile and through her social media profile and through her social media profile and especially given that it's the most especially given that it's the most especially given that it's the most extreme version of you and for men too, extreme version of you and for men too, extreme version of you and for men too, right? The most extreme wealth or right? The most extreme wealth or right? The most extreme wealth or whatever. um whatever. um whatever. um that he he got the egg by her having a that he he got the egg by her having a that he he got the egg by her having a bad Instagram account. Instagram, bad Instagram account. Instagram, bad Instagram account. Instagram, >> man. >> man. >> man. >> Um >> Um >> Um I don't know. I don't I I the club I don't know. I don't I I the club I don't know. I don't I I the club promotion industry is a a weird and promotion industry is a a weird and promotion industry is a a weird and wonderful place, but I'll never forget wonderful place, but I'll never forget wonderful place, but I'll never forget it. Two nights in a row, one guy saying, it. Two nights in a row, one guy saying, it. Two nights in a row, one guy saying, "I wish I could have strapped her "I wish I could have strapped her "I wish I could have strapped her Instagram to her forehead." And the next Instagram to her forehead." And the next Instagram to her forehead." And the next night, the guy going, "She was amazing." night, the guy going, "She was amazing." night, the guy going, "She was amazing." But I went and looked at her social But I went and looked at her social But I went and looked at her social media profile after we'd been on the media profile after we'd been on the media profile after we'd been on the date, and it was a turnoff, dude. Dude, date, and it was a turnoff, dude. Dude, date, and it was a turnoff, dude. Dude, I got the I I got the ache because her I got the I I got the ache because her I got the I I got the ache because her Instagram wasn't hot. Instagram wasn't hot. Instagram wasn't hot. >> So, he wants a hot Instagram lady who's >> So, he wants a hot Instagram lady who's >> So, he wants a hot Instagram lady who's just as hot in real life. just as hot in real life. just as hot in real life. >> Uh, yes, I think so. Uh, they look, >> Uh, yes, I think so. Uh, they look, >> Uh, yes, I think so. Uh, they look, these guys were 19. They had no these guys were 19. They had no these guys were 19. They had no prefrontal culture. prefrontal culture. prefrontal culture. >> I don't even think that that's that >> I don't even think that that's that >> I don't even think that that's that uncommon though. I think it's that that uncommon though. I think it's that that uncommon though. I think it's that that social media has done something like social media has done something like social media has done something like that more subtly though to the general that more subtly though to the general that more subtly though to the general population. population. population. >> You think? >> You think? >> You think? >> We'll get back to talking in just one >> We'll get back to talking in just one >> We'll get back to talking in just one second, but first, if you have been second, but first, if you have been second, but first, if you have been feeling a bit sluggish, your feeling a bit sluggish, your feeling a bit sluggish, your testosterone levels might be the testosterone levels might be the testosterone levels might be the problem. They play a huge role in your problem. They play a huge role in your problem. They play a huge role in your energy, your focus, and your energy, your focus, and your energy, your focus, and your performance. But most people have no performance. But most people have no performance. But most people have no idea where theirs are or what to do if idea where theirs are or what to do if idea where theirs are or what to do if something's off. Which is why I something's off. Which is why I something's off. Which is why I partnered with Function because I wanted partnered with Function because I wanted partnered with Function because I wanted a smarter and more comprehensive way to a smarter and more comprehensive way to a smarter and more comprehensive way to actually understand what's happening actually understand what's happening actually understand what's happening inside of my body. Twice a year, they inside of my body. Twice a year, they inside of my body. Twice a year, they run lab tests that monitor over a 100 run lab tests that monitor over a 100 run lab tests that monitor over a 100 biomarkers. They've got a team of expert biomarkers. They've got a team of expert biomarkers. They've got a team of expert physicians that analyze the data and physicians that analyze the data and physicians that analyze the data and give you actionable advice to improve give you actionable advice to improve give you actionable advice to improve your health and lifespan. And seeing your health and lifespan. And seeing your health and lifespan. And seeing your testosterone levels and tons of your testosterone levels and tons of your testosterone levels and tons of other biomarkers charted over the course other biomarkers charted over the course other biomarkers charted over the course of a year with actionable insights to of a year with actionable insights to of a year with actionable insights to actually improve them gives you a clear actually improve them gives you a clear actually improve them gives you a clear path to making your life better. Getting path to making your life better. Getting path to making your life better. Getting your blood work drawn and analyzed like your blood work drawn and analyzed like your blood work drawn and analyzed like this would usually cost thousands, but this would usually cost thousands, but this would usually cost thousands, but with function it's just $499. And right with function it's just $499. And right with function it's just $499. And right now you can get $100 off, bringing it now you can get $100 off, bringing it now you can get $100 off, bringing it down to $399 bucks. Get the exact same down to $399 bucks. Get the exact same down to $399 bucks. Get the exact same blood panels that I get and save that blood panels that I get and save that blood panels that I get and save that $100 by going to the link in the $100 by going to the link in the $100 by going to the link in the description below or heading to description below or heading to description below or heading to functionhealth.com/modernwisdom. functionhealth.com/modernwisdom. functionhealth.com/modernwisdom. That's functionhealth.com/modernwisdism. Why? Why? So, uh, guys are less likely to want to So, uh, guys are less likely to want to So, uh, guys are less likely to want to have sex after they looked at have sex after they looked at have sex after they looked at influencers and girls are less likely to influencers and girls are less likely to influencers and girls are less likely to feel attractive. feel attractive. feel attractive. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> they feel less attractive. Okay. So, >> they feel less attractive. Okay. So, >> they feel less attractive. Okay. So, it's a comparison game. it's a comparison game. it's a comparison game. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. Why? What do you think's going >> Right. Why? What do you think's going >> Right. Why? What do you think's going on? What's the What's the mechanism? on? What's the What's the mechanism? on? What's the What's the mechanism? Well, I well the I wrote a chapter about Well, I well the I wrote a chapter about Well, I well the I wrote a chapter about plastic surgery and when you look at plastic surgery and when you look at plastic surgery and when you look at this trend of young especially really this trend of young especially really this trend of young especially really young in some cases girls getting young in some cases girls getting young in some cases girls getting procedures done. I do think social media procedures done. I do think social media procedures done. I do think social media has done something to make them feel has done something to make them feel has done something to make them feel that they need to do this to compete and that they need to do this to compete and that they need to do this to compete and to get a partner or to at least be found to get a partner or to at least be found to get a partner or to at least be found attractive and there has to be something attractive and there has to be something attractive and there has to be something with just like constantly being with just like constantly being with just like constantly being inundated with these images on social inundated with these images on social inundated with these images on social media. They have found in say adolescent media. They have found in say adolescent media. They have found in say adolescent girls that girls who are less popular or girls that girls who are less popular or girls that girls who are less popular or girls who tend to do upward comparison girls who tend to do upward comparison girls who tend to do upward comparison so tend to compare themselves to say so tend to compare themselves to say so tend to compare themselves to say more attractive women or or um more more attractive women or or um more more attractive women or or um more popular girls tend to fall prey to this popular girls tend to fall prey to this popular girls tend to fall prey to this a little bit more a little bit more a little bit more >> in an attempt to try and clamber up this >> in an attempt to try and clamber up this >> in an attempt to try and clamber up this felt imbalance of a hierarchy that felt imbalance of a hierarchy that felt imbalance of a hierarchy that they're comparing themselves to. Okay. they're comparing themselves to. Okay. they're comparing themselves to. Okay. Talk to me about what's happened to Talk to me about what's happened to Talk to me about what's happened to plastic surgery over time. Have we seen plastic surgery over time. Have we seen plastic surgery over time. Have we seen increases in it? The types changed? But increases in it? The types changed? But increases in it? The types changed? But what's the context of people getting what's the context of people getting what's the context of people getting different looks? The Kardashians did the different looks? The Kardashians did the different looks? The Kardashians did the [ __ ] BBL for a while. Is that still [ __ ] BBL for a while. Is that still [ __ ] BBL for a while. Is that still in? in? in? >> Now it is breast augmentation for Gen Z >> Now it is breast augmentation for Gen Z >> Now it is breast augmentation for Gen Z women. So they are actually boob jobs women. So they are actually boob jobs women. So they are actually boob jobs are very popular among that cohort. I do are very popular among that cohort. I do are very popular among that cohort. I do think that's influenced by pornography. think that's influenced by pornography. think that's influenced by pornography. Also laboplasty. I was just looking Also laboplasty. I was just looking Also laboplasty. I was just looking actually at a study a couple nights ago actually at a study a couple nights ago actually at a study a couple nights ago showing that women very many young women showing that women very many young women showing that women very many young women feel self-conscious about their labia feel self-conscious about their labia feel self-conscious about their labia and are actually getting these and are actually getting these and are actually getting these procedures done which is also influenced procedures done which is also influenced procedures done which is also influenced from porn. And it I mean it's just crazy from porn. And it I mean it's just crazy from porn. And it I mean it's just crazy to me. It makes me wonder is that why to me. It makes me wonder is that why to me. It makes me wonder is that why people are not interested in having sex? people are not interested in having sex? people are not interested in having sex? Same with guys. Guys are getting filler Same with guys. Guys are getting filler Same with guys. Guys are getting filler injections into their penis for even injections into their penis for even injections into their penis for even sexing purposes. Like they just want to sexing purposes. Like they just want to sexing purposes. Like they just want to look better. So good. George, my housemate, used to So good. George, my housemate, used to make this joke every time that we were make this joke every time that we were make this joke every time that we were on a plane. It was the same, you know, on a plane. It was the same, you know, on a plane. It was the same, you know, someone, it's kind of like a dad joke, someone, it's kind of like a dad joke, someone, it's kind of like a dad joke, but he's not yet a dad. And you know but he's not yet a dad. And you know but he's not yet a dad. And you know those teeny tiny 175 mil cans of Diet those teeny tiny 175 mil cans of Diet those teeny tiny 175 mil cans of Diet Coke? Coke? Coke? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> He would always say, it's like I'd keep >> He would always say, it's like I'd keep >> He would always say, it's like I'd keep a hold of one of those and I'd go back a hold of one of those and I'd go back a hold of one of those and I'd go back and I'd take a dickpick with it in the and I'd take a dickpick with it in the and I'd take a dickpick with it in the background so it would make it look, you background so it would make it look, you background so it would make it look, you know, it's like, "Oh, that's a 330 or 35 know, it's like, "Oh, that's a 330 or 35 know, it's like, "Oh, that's a 330 or 35 mil pan, but I've kept the I've kept the mil pan, but I've kept the I've kept the mil pan, but I've kept the I've kept the airplane mini and that's, you know, airplane mini and that's, you know, airplane mini and that's, you know, comparatively comparatively comparatively >> I should be doing that instead of >> I should be doing that instead of >> I should be doing that instead of getting the filler in their penis." getting the filler in their penis." getting the filler in their penis." >> I agree. I agree. make Diet Coke, mini >> I agree. I agree. make Diet Coke, mini >> I agree. I agree. make Diet Coke, mini Diet Coke great again. Um, Diet Coke great again. Um, Diet Coke great again. Um, >> so yeah, you I mean the labia laboplasty >> so yeah, you I mean the labia laboplasty >> so yeah, you I mean the labia laboplasty and the penis stuff, it seems to be and the penis stuff, it seems to be and the penis stuff, it seems to be obvious that it would be influenced by obvious that it would be influenced by obvious that it would be influenced by porn, porn, porn, >> but even things like I see um like news >> but even things like I see um like news >> but even things like I see um like news reports of women under 30 getting reports of women under 30 getting reports of women under 30 getting facelifts, getting upper eye lifts, facelifts, getting upper eye lifts, facelifts, getting upper eye lifts, right? And I in my personal opinion, I right? And I in my personal opinion, I right? And I in my personal opinion, I don't think women that young need to be don't think women that young need to be don't think women that young need to be getting extensive work done because you getting extensive work done because you getting extensive work done because you do not have the signs of aging yet to do not have the signs of aging yet to do not have the signs of aging yet to justify justify justify >> what do you think they're trying to do? >> what do you think they're trying to do? >> what do you think they're trying to do? Well, I think um if you look at say when Well, I think um if you look at say when Well, I think um if you look at say when women are the most fertile, it tends to women are the most fertile, it tends to women are the most fertile, it tends to be mid20s. So my sense is most women are be mid20s. So my sense is most women are be mid20s. So my sense is most women are trying to look like they're in their trying to look like they're in their trying to look like they're in their mid20s. So if you're older than that, mid20s. So if you're older than that, mid20s. So if you're older than that, you're going to try and look younger. you're going to try and look younger. you're going to try and look younger. And if you're younger, you're trying to And if you're younger, you're trying to And if you're younger, you're trying to look older. look older. look older. >> And so you're going to use you're going >> And so you're going to use you're going >> And so you're going to use you're going to choose the to choose the to choose the >> most fertile in their mid20s. >> most fertile in their mid20s. >> most fertile in their mid20s. >> Early to mid20s, >> Early to mid20s, >> Early to mid20s, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And I found out some really >> Yeah. And I found out some really >> Yeah. And I found out some really [ __ ] uncomfortable data around when [ __ ] uncomfortable data around when [ __ ] uncomfortable data around when men are most fertile. men are most fertile. men are most fertile. It's really young. It's really young. It's really young. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's really young. >> It's really young. >> It's really young. >> Yeah. like illegal in some states young >> Yeah. like illegal in some states young >> Yeah. like illegal in some states young >> you go really which is just I don't know >> you go really which is just I don't know >> you go really which is just I don't know we talk about women's biological clocks we talk about women's biological clocks we talk about women's biological clocks we never really think about we there's we never really think about we there's we never really think about we there's so much sperm right speak for yourself so much sperm right speak for yourself so much sperm right speak for yourself but there's so much sperm and you only but there's so much sperm and you only but there's so much sperm and you only need one need one need one >> larger window though they also have a >> larger window though they also have a >> larger window though they also have a larger like men can still impregnate larger like men can still impregnate larger like men can still impregnate someone later on in life there are someone later on in life there are someone later on in life there are higher rates of chromosomeal higher rates of chromosomeal higher rates of chromosomeal abnormalities but the potential whereas abnormalities but the potential whereas abnormalities but the potential whereas for women it's it's a little bit more for women it's it's a little bit more for women it's it's a little bit more unforgiving unforgiving unforgiving >> but anyway Okay. Um, so you think well I >> but anyway Okay. Um, so you think well I >> but anyway Okay. Um, so you think well I I've seen what is buckle bal fat buckle I've seen what is buckle bal fat buckle I've seen what is buckle bal fat buckle fat. fat. fat. >> Yeah, buckle fat removal. Yeah, >> Yeah, buckle fat removal. Yeah, >> Yeah, buckle fat removal. Yeah, >> that the the cheek cheek fat thing. >> that the the cheek cheek fat thing. >> that the the cheek cheek fat thing. >> What's that trying to achieve? Do you >> What's that trying to achieve? Do you >> What's that trying to achieve? Do you think think think >> to look older? Because you're removing >> to look older? Because you're removing >> to look older? Because you're removing the baby fat essentially in your face. the baby fat essentially in your face. the baby fat essentially in your face. But what happens is as you get older, But what happens is as you get older, But what happens is as you get older, your face naturally loses fat, right? your face naturally loses fat, right? your face naturally loses fat, right? And so you're going to look more gaunt. And so you're going to look more gaunt. And so you're going to look more gaunt. >> You've overshot it. >> You've overshot it. >> You've overshot it. >> Yeah. And then you might potentially >> Yeah. And then you might potentially >> Yeah. And then you might potentially need to use filler too. need to use filler too. need to use filler too. >> Oh, so I used I got fat removal before I >> Oh, so I used I got fat removal before I >> Oh, so I used I got fat removal before I was 24 was 24 was 24 >> and then after I was 28, I had to use >> and then after I was 28, I had to use >> and then after I was 28, I had to use filler to replace where I got rid of the filler to replace where I got rid of the filler to replace where I got rid of the fat. fat. fat. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> Yeah. I mean I So I want to be clear >> Yeah. I mean I So I want to be clear >> Yeah. I mean I So I want to be clear like I don't want to come down on men like I don't want to come down on men like I don't want to come down on men and women if they choose to get these and women if they choose to get these and women if they choose to get these procedures because I understand procedures because I understand procedures because I understand especially if you have a public facing especially if you have a public facing especially if you have a public facing job, there's a lot of pressure to keep job, there's a lot of pressure to keep job, there's a lot of pressure to keep your looks up and to look young. But my your looks up and to look young. But my your looks up and to look young. But my concern is more so when it's really concern is more so when it's really concern is more so when it's really young people or I would say even for men young people or I would say even for men young people or I would say even for men who are doing this, you really don't who are doing this, you really don't who are doing this, you really don't need to like need to like need to like >> it is brutal. I mean the >> it is brutal. I mean the >> it is brutal. I mean the some of the young girl supposed to be some of the young girl supposed to be some of the young girl supposed to be young girls that I've seen uh videos of young girls that I've seen uh videos of young girls that I've seen uh videos of on TikTok there like 22 23 year old on TikTok there like 22 23 year old on TikTok there like 22 23 year old chicks and they look mid30s or 40s with chicks and they look mid30s or 40s with chicks and they look mid30s or 40s with all of this work that's been done. And all of this work that's been done. And all of this work that's been done. And um I was I was thinking I was having a um I was I was thinking I was having a um I was I was thinking I was having a conversation last night about how the conversation last night about how the conversation last night about how the sort of ideal female form has changed sort of ideal female form has changed sort of ideal female form has changed even with sort of relatively extreme even with sort of relatively extreme even with sort of relatively extreme cosmetic procedures. So Jordy Shaw, cosmetic procedures. So Jordy Shaw, cosmetic procedures. So Jordy Shaw, which was the British equivalent of which was the British equivalent of which was the British equivalent of Jersey Shaw, um that back in the day was Jersey Shaw, um that back in the day was Jersey Shaw, um that back in the day was a lot about fake tan. a lot about fake tan. a lot about fake tan. >> Um it was big hair. >> Um it was big hair. >> Um it was big hair. >> Uh it was almost pinnipy in a way. There >> Uh it was almost pinnipy in a way. There >> Uh it was almost pinnipy in a way. There was it was tight was it was tight was it was tight >> suits too, weren't they? >> suits too, weren't they? >> suits too, weren't they? That's because of that's something else. That's because of that's something else. That's because of that's something else. But yes, that that was sort of part But yes, that that was sort of part But yes, that that was sort of part >> I learned what a chav was living. >> I learned what a chav was living. >> I learned what a chav was living. Exactly. Well, look, hey, be careful. Exactly. Well, look, hey, be careful. Exactly. Well, look, hey, be careful. Right. I I those were those were my No, Right. I I those were those were my No, Right. I I those were those were my No, those were my c It's kind of like those were my c It's kind of like those were my c It's kind of like calling someone a heck. No, it's not. calling someone a heck. No, it's not. calling someone a heck. No, it's not. Okay. I mean, those were my me too, but Okay. I mean, those were my me too, but Okay. I mean, those were my me too, but those were my customers for a very long those were my customers for a very long those were my customers for a very long time. Um, time. Um, time. Um, >> it was fake tan. It was um big boobs, >> it was fake tan. It was um big boobs, >> it was fake tan. It was um big boobs, maybe augmented, maybe not. maybe augmented, maybe not. maybe augmented, maybe not. >> Brows, too. A very specific eyebrow. >> Brows, too. A very specific eyebrow. >> Brows, too. A very specific eyebrow. >> Very painted on sort of aggressive >> Very painted on sort of aggressive >> Very painted on sort of aggressive brows. big hair, tight dress, short brows. big hair, tight dress, short brows. big hair, tight dress, short dress, right? Um dress, right? Um dress, right? Um >> I love that. I'm just to be clear, I'm >> I love that. I'm just to be clear, I'm >> I love that. I'm just to be clear, I'm not making fun of it. not making fun of it. not making fun of it. >> That aesthetic, strong aesthetic, great >> That aesthetic, strong aesthetic, great >> That aesthetic, strong aesthetic, great early 2010s aesthetic. early 2010s aesthetic. early 2010s aesthetic. >> Uh and the guy's um equivalent, I think, >> Uh and the guy's um equivalent, I think, >> Uh and the guy's um equivalent, I think, up until probably about 5 years ago. Uh, up until probably about 5 years ago. Uh, up until probably about 5 years ago. Uh, we were a little bit delayed on the guys we were a little bit delayed on the guys we were a little bit delayed on the guys thing was sort of big muscles, not so thing was sort of big muscles, not so thing was sort of big muscles, not so concerned with height, fake tan, concerned with height, fake tan, concerned with height, fake tan, plunging V-neck neckline. Um, tight plunging V-neck neckline. Um, tight plunging V-neck neckline. Um, tight jeans, jeans, jeans, >> um, expensive watch thing, >> um, expensive watch thing, >> um, expensive watch thing, >> jeans, >> jeans, >> jeans, >> uh, yeah, maybe. But so I was, what I >> uh, yeah, maybe. But so I was, what I >> uh, yeah, maybe. But so I was, what I was trying to do, this conversation I was trying to do, this conversation I was trying to do, this conversation I was having last night, which is so was having last night, which is so was having last night, which is so interesting, I was trying to work out interesting, I was trying to work out interesting, I was trying to work out what's what was being signaled then and what's what was being signaled then and what's what was being signaled then and what's being signaled now. what's being signaled now. what's being signaled now. >> Okay. And I think what's being signaled >> Okay. And I think what's being signaled >> Okay. And I think what's being signaled now is a more extreme version of of that now is a more extreme version of of that now is a more extreme version of of that by both men and women. So the male by both men and women. So the male by both men and women. So the male thing, it's all about formidability now. thing, it's all about formidability now. thing, it's all about formidability now. It's the It's the It's the >> overexaggerated handsome Squidward >> overexaggerated handsome Squidward >> overexaggerated handsome Squidward >> cheekbones and the the the jawline. It's >> cheekbones and the the the jawline. It's >> cheekbones and the the the jawline. It's the height. the height. the height. >> The height. Um but it's a lot less to do >> The height. Um but it's a lot less to do >> The height. Um but it's a lot less to do with I'm not really seeing anyone talk with I'm not really seeing anyone talk with I'm not really seeing anyone talk about tan all that much. Not even seeing about tan all that much. Not even seeing about tan all that much. Not even seeing if you look at if you look at if you look at >> dark brows are really big for guys. >> dark brows are really big for guys. >> dark brows are really big for guys. >> The most popular Lux Maxes aren't that >> The most popular Lux Maxes aren't that >> The most popular Lux Maxes aren't that concerned with muscularity, extreme concerned with muscularity, extreme concerned with muscularity, extreme muscularity in the way that it would muscularity in the way that it would muscularity in the way that it would have been 10 years ago. 10 years ago, it have been 10 years ago. 10 years ago, it have been 10 years ago. 10 years ago, it would have just been get as wide as and would have just been get as wide as and would have just been get as wide as and as muscular as possible. as muscular as possible. as muscular as possible. >> That's not quite the case now. And then >> That's not quite the case now. And then >> That's not quite the case now. And then with the women, it is both of them are with the women, it is both of them are with the women, it is both of them are basically caricatures of the most basically caricatures of the most basically caricatures of the most sexually dimorphic physical traits, sexually dimorphic physical traits, sexually dimorphic physical traits, right? Fisherian runaway, I think it's right? Fisherian runaway, I think it's right? Fisherian runaway, I think it's called. called. called. >> Yeah. Um, where the the stag that's got >> Yeah. Um, where the the stag that's got >> Yeah. Um, where the the stag that's got a uh the stag deer that's got antlas so a uh the stag deer that's got antlas so a uh the stag deer that's got antlas so big that he can't lift his head up and big that he can't lift his head up and big that he can't lift his head up and he dies. The peacock that's got such a he dies. The peacock that's got such a he dies. The peacock that's got such a ridiculous tail that he gets caught with ridiculous tail that he gets caught with ridiculous tail that he gets caught with the first second there's a predator the first second there's a predator the first second there's a predator around, but like he did some great bon around, but like he did some great bon around, but like he did some great bon on the way out. Um, that that is seems on the way out. Um, that that is seems on the way out. Um, that that is seems to be what's happening with men and to be what's happening with men and to be what's happening with men and women now. It's just a more what the women now. It's just a more what the women now. It's just a more what the next evolution. It's more extreme limb next evolution. It's more extreme limb next evolution. It's more extreme limb lengthening surgery, the brows, the lengthening surgery, the brows, the lengthening surgery, the brows, the cheekbones, the mandible surgery, all cheekbones, the mandible surgery, all cheekbones, the mandible surgery, all that stuff. For women especially, I that stuff. For women especially, I that stuff. For women especially, I think it can also be the equivalent of think it can also be the equivalent of think it can also be the equivalent of showing off an expensive handbag. So showing off an expensive handbag. So showing off an expensive handbag. So instead of saying here's my designer bag instead of saying here's my designer bag instead of saying here's my designer bag or or or >> here's my designer titties >> here's my designer titties >> here's my designer titties >> or you know that my my lips or whatever >> or you know that my my lips or whatever >> or you know that my my lips or whatever like I have a man who will pay for my like I have a man who will pay for my like I have a man who will pay for my surgery and make me look like this. surgery and make me look like this. surgery and make me look like this. >> It's a good argument for why that I've >> It's a good argument for why that I've >> It's a good argument for why that I've heard about why women uh have long nails heard about why women uh have long nails heard about why women uh have long nails and long hair. It's just [ __ ] and long hair. It's just [ __ ] and long hair. It's just [ __ ] impractical. So it's it it is itself a impractical. So it's it it is itself a impractical. So it's it it is itself a status of of of wealth and and luxury status of of of wealth and and luxury status of of of wealth and and luxury that not only can I maintain them, but I that not only can I maintain them, but I that not only can I maintain them, but I have a life that requires so little hard have a life that requires so little hard have a life that requires so little hard labor that this hair and these nails and labor that this hair and these nails and labor that this hair and these nails and this makeup this makeup this makeup >> um I mean the female introsexual >> um I mean the female introsexual >> um I mean the female introsexual competition is just like [ __ ] competition is just like [ __ ] competition is just like [ __ ] endlessly interesting, right? Like uh endlessly interesting, right? Like uh endlessly interesting, right? Like uh shoes and bags shoes and bags shoes and bags >> exclusively introsexual. I do not know >> exclusively introsexual. I do not know >> exclusively introsexual. I do not know the difference between whatever you're the difference between whatever you're the difference between whatever you're wearing and something that was onetenth wearing and something that was onetenth wearing and something that was onetenth the price and something that was a the price and something that was a the price and something that was a thousand times the price. I have no thousand times the price. I have no thousand times the price. I have no idea. Um but women do. idea. Um but women do. idea. Um but women do. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Women Women know. And if you're in a >> Women Women know. And if you're in a >> Women Women know. And if you're in a relationship, it's basically a my man is relationship, it's basically a my man is relationship, it's basically a my man is so invested in me that he spent however so invested in me that he spent however so invested in me that he spent however much money on this thing. So like much money on this thing. So like much money on this thing. So like >> yeah, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> don't think don't even think about going >> don't think don't even think about going >> don't think don't even think about going there. Which is why I also think that there. Which is why I also think that there. Which is why I also think that women tend to go a little bit overboard women tend to go a little bit overboard women tend to go a little bit overboard in some cases with the work done as a in some cases with the work done as a in some cases with the work done as a way to signal that they have the money way to signal that they have the money way to signal that they have the money and the resources or man that is paying and the resources or man that is paying and the resources or man that is paying for it because usually when you think of for it because usually when you think of for it because usually when you think of plastic surgery, men don't like plastic plastic surgery, men don't like plastic plastic surgery, men don't like plastic surgery. Typically men they don't like surgery. Typically men they don't like surgery. Typically men they don't like it in women because it in women because it in women because >> what's the data? >> what's the data? >> what's the data? >> It masks their underlying health and >> It masks their underlying health and >> It masks their underlying health and fertility, right? So, if a woman can fertility, right? So, if a woman can fertility, right? So, if a woman can turn back the clock in terms of aging, turn back the clock in terms of aging, turn back the clock in terms of aging, signs of aging, or appear more signs of aging, or appear more signs of aging, or appear more attractive than she naturally was, or attractive than she naturally was, or attractive than she naturally was, or maybe maybe you don't mind so much, but maybe maybe you don't mind so much, but maybe maybe you don't mind so much, but from the conversations I've had with from the conversations I've had with from the conversations I've had with men, men tend to not really like men, men tend to not really like men, men tend to not really like plastic. plastic. plastic. >> No, I I I agree. >> No, I I I agree. >> No, I I I agree. >> Natural beauty. >> Natural beauty. >> Natural beauty. >> I agree. I mean, uh I saw this tweet >> I agree. I mean, uh I saw this tweet >> I agree. I mean, uh I saw this tweet after the Grammys that [ __ ] ripped after the Grammys that [ __ ] ripped after the Grammys that [ __ ] ripped and it was men love Sydney Sweeney and and it was men love Sydney Sweeney and and it was men love Sydney Sweeney and hate Sabrina Carpenter. Men, women love hate Sabrina Carpenter. Men, women love hate Sabrina Carpenter. Men, women love Sabrina Carpenter and hate Sydney Sabrina Carpenter and hate Sydney Sabrina Carpenter and hate Sydney Sweeney. And um the explanation that I Sweeney. And um the explanation that I Sweeney. And um the explanation that I saw I was so fascinated by it. I thought saw I was so fascinated by it. I thought saw I was so fascinated by it. I thought it was and it seems to be pretty it was and it seems to be pretty it was and it seems to be pretty accurate. I don't know that many guys accurate. I don't know that many guys accurate. I don't know that many guys like I love Sabrina Carpenter and I like I love Sabrina Carpenter and I like I love Sabrina Carpenter and I don't know that many women that love don't know that many women that love don't know that many women that love Sydney Sweeney. Sydney Sweeney. Sydney Sweeney. >> That's funny. I've seen this. I mean I >> That's funny. I've seen this. I mean I >> That's funny. I've seen this. I mean I think they're both pretty. So I don't think they're both pretty. So I don't think they're both pretty. So I don't know. I guess I'm like one of the odd know. I guess I'm like one of the odd know. I guess I'm like one of the odd ones. ones. ones. >> Need to be more judgmental. Um >> Need to be more judgmental. Um >> Need to be more judgmental. Um the best explanation that I saw was that the best explanation that I saw was that the best explanation that I saw was that Sabrina Carpenter her physical Sabrina Carpenter her physical Sabrina Carpenter her physical presentation is basically presentation is basically presentation is basically gay and female coded. gay and female coded. gay and female coded. >> Huh. and Sydney Sweeney is sort of >> Huh. and Sydney Sweeney is sort of >> Huh. and Sydney Sweeney is sort of >> lowmaintenance >> lowmaintenance >> lowmaintenance >> natural malecoded beauty um less sort of >> natural malecoded beauty um less sort of >> natural malecoded beauty um less sort of curated in that sort of a way and uh curated in that sort of a way and uh curated in that sort of a way and uh that lowmaintenance thing sort of seems that lowmaintenance thing sort of seems that lowmaintenance thing sort of seems to come across but yeah I think the to come across but yeah I think the to come across but yeah I think the reliable signal of uh fitness uh cue reliable signal of uh fitness uh cue reliable signal of uh fitness uh cue that's being sort of hidden by by lots that's being sort of hidden by by lots that's being sort of hidden by by lots of plastic surgery is so true and I the of plastic surgery is so true and I the of plastic surgery is so true and I the sense I get the sense that um the Lux sense I get the sense that um the Lux sense I get the sense that um the Lux Maxing community for men is doing the Maxing community for men is doing the Maxing community for men is doing the same thing. I was going to ask you about same thing. I was going to ask you about same thing. I was going to ask you about that like what are your views because I that like what are your views because I that like what are your views because I when I write about this I get a lot of when I write about this I get a lot of when I write about this I get a lot of young men who get upset at me and say young men who get upset at me and say young men who get upset at me and say like you don't understand right this is like you don't understand right this is like you don't understand right this is >> well you this is the this is the time >> well you this is the this is the time >> well you this is the this is the time for the [ __ ] patriarchy to step in for the [ __ ] patriarchy to step in for the [ __ ] patriarchy to step in writing as a woman sit down let me man writing as a woman sit down let me man writing as a woman sit down let me man explain to you um explain to you um explain to you um >> what do I think I think >> what do I think I think >> what do I think I think >> I have a really [ __ ] I think this is >> I have a really [ __ ] I think this is >> I have a really [ __ ] I think this is an interesting take an interesting take an interesting take >> my advice to guys is just work away get >> my advice to guys is just work away get >> my advice to guys is just work away get rich honestly rich honestly rich honestly >> get ri get rich >> get ri get rich >> get ri get rich >> don't worry don't worry about all the >> don't worry don't worry about all the >> don't worry don't worry about all the taking the hormones to make your bone taking the hormones to make your bone taking the hormones to make your bone structure. structure. structure. >> I would say get rich, get popular. Um, >> I would say get rich, get popular. Um, >> I would say get rich, get popular. Um, uh, looks are important, but uh, looks are important, but uh, looks are important, but you can make some pretty good changes you can make some pretty good changes you can make some pretty good changes just by becoming more diligent. What I just by becoming more diligent. What I just by becoming more diligent. What I would say about the luxing thing, um, would say about the luxing thing, um, would say about the luxing thing, um, is what guys seem to be optimizing for is what guys seem to be optimizing for is what guys seem to be optimizing for is formidability. So, they're optimizing is formidability. So, they're optimizing is formidability. So, they're optimizing for the sort of things that other men for the sort of things that other men for the sort of things that other men respect, not that women are attracted respect, not that women are attracted respect, not that women are attracted to. So other men would, if you look at to. So other men would, if you look at to. So other men would, if you look at most guys that have luxed and put them most guys that have luxed and put them most guys that have luxed and put them in front of women, I wonder whether in front of women, I wonder whether in front of women, I wonder whether women would find them more attractive. women would find them more attractive. women would find them more attractive. >> So it's intertexual competition again >> So it's intertexual competition again >> So it's intertexual competition again >> or whether men would find them more >> or whether men would find them more >> or whether men would find them more formidable. I think that more men would formidable. I think that more men would formidable. I think that more men would find them more formidable than more find them more formidable than more find them more formidable than more women would find them more attractive. women would find them more attractive. women would find them more attractive. >> Cuz most women are not looking for their >> Cuz most women are not looking for their >> Cuz most women are not looking for their guys to be hyper hyper masculine like guys to be hyper hyper masculine like guys to be hyper hyper masculine like that. There's even some evidence to that. There's even some evidence to that. There's even some evidence to suggest that women prefer a slightly suggest that women prefer a slightly suggest that women prefer a slightly feminized face with a masculineized body feminized face with a masculineized body feminized face with a masculineized body >> and not super jacked either. >> and not super jacked either. >> and not super jacked either. >> No, not super jacked. They But they want >> No, not super jacked. They But they want >> No, not super jacked. They But they want average face or sometimes actually average face or sometimes actually average face or sometimes actually slightly feminized face with slightly feminized face with slightly feminized face with masculineized body. Yeah. masculineized body. Yeah. masculineized body. Yeah. >> Um but all of the guys are just pushing >> Um but all of the guys are just pushing >> Um but all of the guys are just pushing toward heavier brow, a deeper jaw, toward heavier brow, a deeper jaw, toward heavier brow, a deeper jaw, stronger cheekbones. But do you know the stronger cheekbones. But do you know the stronger cheekbones. But do you know the David Putt study that he did about when David Putt study that he did about when David Putt study that he did about when he brought uh people into the lab and he brought uh people into the lab and he brought uh people into the lab and got women to rate attractiveness and men got women to rate attractiveness and men got women to rate attractiveness and men to rate formidability? to rate formidability? to rate formidability? >> Remind me. >> Remind me. >> Remind me. >> So [ __ ] good. So uh photos of guys >> So [ __ ] good. So uh photos of guys >> So [ __ ] good. So uh photos of guys shown to women and men. Women were asked shown to women and men. Women were asked shown to women and men. Women were asked to rank um how attractive do you think to rank um how attractive do you think to rank um how attractive do you think this man is? Men were asked to rank how this man is? Men were asked to rank how this man is? Men were asked to rank how likely do you think it is that you could likely do you think it is that you could likely do you think it is that you could beat this other man in a fight? Oh, beat this other man in a fight? Oh, beat this other man in a fight? Oh, >> one year later, they brought the men >> one year later, they brought the men >> one year later, they brought the men from the photos into the lab and asked from the photos into the lab and asked from the photos into the lab and asked what their sexual success had been over what their sexual success had been over what their sexual success had been over the last year, and the female ratings of the last year, and the female ratings of the last year, and the female ratings of attractiveness had basically zero attractiveness had basically zero attractiveness had basically zero predictive power for their sexual predictive power for their sexual predictive power for their sexual success, but the male ratings of success, but the male ratings of success, but the male ratings of formidability were very predictive. formidability were very predictive. formidability were very predictive. >> Wow. So even though what I think is >> Wow. So even though what I think is >> Wow. So even though what I think is happening at level one, this is like the happening at level one, this is like the happening at level one, this is like the Epstein files at level one where he Epstein files at level one where he Epstein files at level one where he didn't kill himself didn't kill himself didn't kill himself is Lux Maxes are optimizing for is Lux Maxes are optimizing for is Lux Maxes are optimizing for uh formidability because they're uh formidability because they're uh formidability because they're disregarding women and it's intraexual disregarding women and it's intraexual disregarding women and it's intraexual competition because I just want to mog competition because I just want to mog competition because I just want to mog other guys. I just want to be better other guys. I just want to be better other guys. I just want to be better than other men. Level two, Epstein still than other men. Level two, Epstein still than other men. Level two, Epstein still alive and playing Fortnite in Israel, is alive and playing Fortnite in Israel, is alive and playing Fortnite in Israel, is actually by pursuing formidability, they actually by pursuing formidability, they actually by pursuing formidability, they may end up closing their eyes and may end up closing their eyes and may end up closing their eyes and throwing the dart at the dartboard and throwing the dart at the dartboard and throwing the dart at the dartboard and hitting the bullseye of women actually hitting the bullseye of women actually hitting the bullseye of women actually finding them more attractive than if finding them more attractive than if finding them more attractive than if they tried to pursue attractiveness as they tried to pursue attractiveness as they tried to pursue attractiveness as the main outcome, but this is again this the main outcome, but this is again this the main outcome, but this is again this is working theory at the moment. is working theory at the moment. is working theory at the moment. >> Yeah. I mean, because I could see that >> Yeah. I mean, because I could see that >> Yeah. I mean, because I could see that in terms of tattoos, there have been in terms of tattoos, there have been in terms of tattoos, there have been studies to show that men when they get studies to show that men when they get studies to show that men when they get tattoos, it actually is more so about tattoos, it actually is more so about tattoos, it actually is more so about scaring off their male rivals because scaring off their male rivals because scaring off their male rivals because women don't. Some women like tattoos, women don't. Some women like tattoos, women don't. Some women like tattoos, but not all do. And and some women but not all do. And and some women but not all do. And and some women actually are turned off by tattoos. So, actually are turned off by tattoos. So, actually are turned off by tattoos. So, it's more again, like you said, of it's more again, like you said, of it's more again, like you said, of scaring off and beating your rivals than scaring off and beating your rivals than scaring off and beating your rivals than directly attracting women. But I also directly attracting women. But I also directly attracting women. But I also wonder if it's that these men are wonder if it's that these men are wonder if it's that these men are projecting onto women their preferences. projecting onto women their preferences. projecting onto women their preferences. So, men care more about looks and, you So, men care more about looks and, you So, men care more about looks and, you know, youth. So know, youth. So know, youth. So >> I wonder if when you look at say >> I wonder if when you look at say >> I wonder if when you look at say marriage or marital satisfaction, marriage or marital satisfaction, marriage or marital satisfaction, men say men's whether men find their men say men's whether men find their men say men's whether men find their wives attractive has a greater wives attractive has a greater wives attractive has a greater correlation with their marital correlation with their marital correlation with their marital satisfaction than whether women find satisfaction than whether women find satisfaction than whether women find their husbands attractive. So I wonder their husbands attractive. So I wonder their husbands attractive. So I wonder if these young guys are projecting on to if these young guys are projecting on to if these young guys are projecting on to women thinking that women care so much women thinking that women care so much women thinking that women care so much about looks when it's actually that's about looks when it's actually that's about looks when it's actually that's what they care about in their partners. what they care about in their partners. what they care about in their partners. So, So, So, >> oh, it's a failure of cross- sex mind >> oh, it's a failure of cross- sex mind >> oh, it's a failure of cross- sex mind readading using their own readading using their own readading using their own >> uh assessment criteria. >> uh assessment criteria. >> uh assessment criteria. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And saying you must think the way that I >> And saying you must think the way that I >> And saying you must think the way that I think I'll do more beautifification. think I'll do more beautifification. think I'll do more beautifification. Well, um Mack and Murphy's got this Well, um Mack and Murphy's got this Well, um Mack and Murphy's got this great idea where he talks about how uh great idea where he talks about how uh great idea where he talks about how uh the increases in male beautifification the increases in male beautifification the increases in male beautifification are to try and offset this uh inability are to try and offset this uh inability are to try and offset this uh inability to get hypergamy to work that men have to get hypergamy to work that men have to get hypergamy to work that men have realized that because they can't win realized that because they can't win realized that because they can't win socioeconomically, they might have to socioeconomically, they might have to socioeconomically, they might have to turn. turn. turn. >> I've read about this. That's crazy. >> I've read about this. That's crazy. >> I've read about this. That's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> The vanity uh mirror round in an attempt >> The vanity uh mirror round in an attempt >> The vanity uh mirror round in an attempt to out beautify their socioeconomic to out beautify their socioeconomic to out beautify their socioeconomic lack. lack. lack. >> Yeah. Especially when they're young and >> Yeah. Especially when they're young and >> Yeah. Especially when they're young and they're just starting out in their they're just starting out in their they're just starting out in their career and they're thinking, "Okay, how career and they're thinking, "Okay, how career and they're thinking, "Okay, how do I attract women? I don't have the do I attract women? I don't have the do I attract women? I don't have the money yet. Don't have the resources. money yet. Don't have the resources. money yet. Don't have the resources. Well, I can just get really hot. Well, I can just get really hot. Well, I can just get really hot. >> There's worse theories." There are worse >> There's worse theories." There are worse >> There's worse theories." There are worse theories. Um what about the effect of theories. Um what about the effect of theories. Um what about the effect of sexlessness in marriage? sexlessness in marriage? sexlessness in marriage? Oh, I can tell you I've when I was in Oh, I can tell you I've when I was in Oh, I can tell you I've when I was in research, I would interview some men who research, I would interview some men who research, I would interview some men who had not had sex in like decades, which had not had sex in like decades, which had not had sex in like decades, which is why is why is why >> in a marriage? Yeah. In a marriage? >> in a marriage? Yeah. In a marriage? >> in a marriage? Yeah. In a marriage? >> Married men who'd not had sex in >> Married men who'd not had sex in >> Married men who'd not had sex in decades. decades. decades. >> Yeah. I mean, at that point, there's a >> Yeah. I mean, at that point, there's a >> Yeah. I mean, at that point, there's a lot of cheating. Um, not that that's lot of cheating. Um, not that that's lot of cheating. Um, not that that's justified, but I I think it can be very justified, but I I think it can be very justified, but I I think it can be very damaging to a relationship. If you're damaging to a relationship. If you're damaging to a relationship. If you're not married, to be sexless not married, to be sexless not married, to be sexless >> because that's a way to bond with your >> because that's a way to bond with your >> because that's a way to bond with your partner. Especially for men, they tend partner. Especially for men, they tend partner. Especially for men, they tend to use sex as a way to have intimacy, to use sex as a way to have intimacy, to use sex as a way to have intimacy, like emotional closeness with like emotional closeness with like emotional closeness with >> one of the few places that they can. >> one of the few places that they can. >> one of the few places that they can. >> Yeah. Yeah. So >> Yeah. Yeah. So >> Yeah. Yeah. So uh I feel for people out there you know uh I feel for people out there you know uh I feel for people out there you know marriage I'm assuming marriage is very marriage I'm assuming marriage is very marriage I'm assuming marriage is very difficult as is and not sure what would difficult as is and not sure what would difficult as is and not sure what would be useful for your audience like how to be useful for your audience like how to be useful for your audience like how to overcome that. overcome that. overcome that. >> Um put your phones away number one. It's >> Um put your phones away number one. It's >> Um put your phones away number one. It's crazy some of the stats I was reading in crazy some of the stats I was reading in crazy some of the stats I was reading in terms of people using social media terms of people using social media terms of people using social media during sex right after sex. Yeah that during sex right after sex. Yeah that during sex right after sex. Yeah that same study same study same study >> during I can't remember the stat of my >> during I can't remember the stat of my >> during I can't remember the stat of my head. It's a It's in extinction that I I head. It's a It's in extinction that I I head. It's a It's in extinction that I I cited it, but it's I don't know. I was cited it, but it's I don't know. I was cited it, but it's I don't know. I was trying to think figure that out myself. trying to think figure that out myself. trying to think figure that out myself. I'm thinking, how do you excuse yourself I'm thinking, how do you excuse yourself I'm thinking, how do you excuse yourself to go post something and then come back? to go post something and then come back? to go post something and then come back? >> I can't be posting. It can't be posting. >> I can't be posting. It can't be posting. >> I can't be posting. It can't be posting. There's no way that you can do that. I There's no way that you can do that. I There's no way that you can do that. I could see scrolling at best. I could see scrolling at best. I could see scrolling at best. I >> have to go to the bathroom. Maybe >> have to go to the bathroom. Maybe >> have to go to the bathroom. Maybe >> during sex >> during sex >> during sex >> or even right after it was pretty bad. >> or even right after it was pretty bad. >> or even right after it was pretty bad. >> It's the during that gets me. Maybe it >> It's the during that gets me. Maybe it >> It's the during that gets me. Maybe it was my friend strapping their Instagram was my friend strapping their Instagram was my friend strapping their Instagram to the forehead. Maybe it's just that. I to the forehead. Maybe it's just that. I to the forehead. Maybe it's just that. I don't know. Um yeah, I got I found this. don't know. Um yeah, I got I found this. don't know. Um yeah, I got I found this. But that's so I was going to say with But that's so I was going to say with But that's so I was going to say with the with um there's another study that the with um there's another study that the with um there's another study that showed the more that people are on their showed the more that people are on their showed the more that people are on their phones ignoring their partners, they phones ignoring their partners, they phones ignoring their partners, they have less sex, which makes sense. have less sex, which makes sense. have less sex, which makes sense. >> Is that called flubbing? Flubbing. >> Is that called flubbing? Flubbing. >> Is that called flubbing? Flubbing. Flubbing. Flubbing. Should they need to Flubbing. Flubbing. Should they need to Flubbing. Flubbing. Should they need to rename that? It's a stupid name. Um rename that? It's a stupid name. Um rename that? It's a stupid name. Um yeah, I Arthur Brooks yeah, I Arthur Brooks yeah, I Arthur Brooks and Matthew Hussy taught me some and Matthew Hussy taught me some and Matthew Hussy taught me some interesting stuff around this about sort interesting stuff around this about sort interesting stuff around this about sort of revitalizer and James Ston as well of revitalizer and James Ston as well of revitalizer and James Ston as well taught me some interesting stuff but taught me some interesting stuff but taught me some interesting stuff but Arthurs was more neuroscientifically Arthurs was more neuroscientifically Arthurs was more neuroscientifically backed. Um that backed. Um that backed. Um that one of the problems you have in one of the problems you have in one of the problems you have in long-term marriages is that uh long-term marriages is that uh long-term marriages is that uh safety turns into consistency turns into safety turns into consistency turns into safety turns into consistency turns into comfort turns into laziness comfort turns into laziness comfort turns into laziness >> and that that we just go through the >> and that that we just go through the >> and that that we just go through the same dance. We do it on a Tuesday and it same dance. We do it on a Tuesday and it same dance. We do it on a Tuesday and it happens in this way and I don't there's happens in this way and I don't there's happens in this way and I don't there's no there's no distance. There's no no there's no distance. There's no no there's no distance. There's no intrigue. Where'd you go today? Are you intrigue. Where'd you go today? Are you intrigue. Where'd you go today? Are you wearing something new? This is a little wearing something new? This is a little wearing something new? This is a little bit different. I don't there's no push bit different. I don't there's no push bit different. I don't there's no push and pull, right? And a lot of the and pull, right? And a lot of the and pull, right? And a lot of the chemistry and the reason that I think chemistry and the reason that I think chemistry and the reason that I think people are so enlivened and excited at people are so enlivened and excited at people are so enlivened and excited at the start of a relationship is there's the start of a relationship is there's the start of a relationship is there's so much to discover about someone when so much to discover about someone when so much to discover about someone when you feel like there's nothing left to you feel like there's nothing left to you feel like there's nothing left to discover. Sort of where am I injecting discover. Sort of where am I injecting discover. Sort of where am I injecting my fantasy into literally and what my fantasy into literally and what my fantasy into literally and what >> bringing that back online Arthur had a a >> bringing that back online Arthur had a a >> bringing that back online Arthur had a a pretty interesting sort of few-step pretty interesting sort of few-step pretty interesting sort of few-step process which was to basically flood. process which was to basically flood. process which was to basically flood. It's like to flirt with your partner It's like to flirt with your partner It's like to flirt with your partner throughout the day and to treat them as throughout the day and to treat them as throughout the day and to treat them as if they're an object of desire, if they're an object of desire, if they're an object of desire, especially if you're male to female. especially if you're male to female. especially if you're male to female. This is something that Esther Pel uh I I This is something that Esther Pel uh I I This is something that Esther Pel uh I I got wrong. I should have pushed back got wrong. I should have pushed back got wrong. I should have pushed back against when she came on the show and against when she came on the show and against when she came on the show and she said something to the effect of um she said something to the effect of um she said something to the effect of um what woman has been aroused because what woman has been aroused because what woman has been aroused because she's seen her partner aroused. I'm she's seen her partner aroused. I'm she's seen her partner aroused. I'm like, I understand what you mean at sort like, I understand what you mean at sort like, I understand what you mean at sort of the first level, but almost every of the first level, but almost every of the first level, but almost every definition of female arous arousal definition of female arous arousal definition of female arous arousal includes my partner desires me. like includes my partner desires me. like includes my partner desires me. like being desired by their partner. Yeah. being desired by their partner. Yeah. being desired by their partner. Yeah. So, what better that's the most So, what better that's the most So, what better that's the most nonfgeible nonfgeible nonfgeible like uh difficult to fake like uh difficult to fake like uh difficult to fake signal that I am that I desire you is me signal that I am that I desire you is me signal that I am that I desire you is me being aroused. So you go, okay, being aroused. So you go, okay, being aroused. So you go, okay, I think I think that you probably can do I think I think that you probably can do I think I think that you probably can do the unmarried [ __ ] 38-year-old guy the unmarried [ __ ] 38-year-old guy the unmarried [ __ ] 38-year-old guy telling people who are married how to telling people who are married how to telling people who are married how to reinvi sex life. reinvi sex life. reinvi sex life. I think that there is uh good legs to I think that there is uh good legs to I think that there is uh good legs to like make flirting great again. That's like make flirting great again. That's like make flirting great again. That's my that's my argument. my that's my argument. my that's my argument. >> Or I was going to say if your lady is >> Or I was going to say if your lady is >> Or I was going to say if your lady is down for it to try on a wig. down for it to try on a wig. down for it to try on a wig. >> Trying a wig? >> Trying a wig? >> Trying a wig? >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Me? >> Me? >> Me? >> No. No. Well, I mean, you can if you >> No. No. Well, I mean, you can if you >> No. No. Well, I mean, you can if you want to want to want to >> to be someone different >> to be someone different >> to be someone different >> for roleplay. >> for roleplay. >> for roleplay. >> Yeah. If she is willing to put on a wig >> Yeah. If she is willing to put on a wig >> Yeah. If she is willing to put on a wig because then it because then it because then it >> she's willing to put on a wig. >> she's willing to put on a wig. >> she's willing to put on a wig. >> Really change the way she looks. If >> Really change the way she looks. If >> Really change the way she looks. If you're looking for sexual novelty, then you're looking for sexual novelty, then you're looking for sexual novelty, then do something nice for her. Get her do something nice for her. Get her do something nice for her. Get her flowers obviously flowers obviously flowers obviously >> and then get her a wig >> and then get her a wig >> and then get her a wig >> if she wants to wear one. Yeah. >> if she wants to wear one. Yeah. >> if she wants to wear one. Yeah. >> That's interesting. I remember reading >> That's interesting. I remember reading >> That's interesting. I remember reading um Roy Balmeister is doing a [ __ ] um Roy Balmeister is doing a [ __ ] um Roy Balmeister is doing a [ __ ] awesome series on sexual novelty at the awesome series on sexual novelty at the awesome series on sexual novelty at the moment. Okay. moment. Okay. moment. Okay. >> On his Substack. It's It is a travesty. >> On his Substack. It's It is a travesty. >> On his Substack. It's It is a travesty. Everyone needs to go and read uh Roy Everyone needs to go and read uh Roy Everyone needs to go and read uh Roy Bmaster's Substack because it's got Bmaster's Substack because it's got Bmaster's Substack because it's got three likes and they're all me and my three likes and they're all me and my three likes and they're all me and my friends. And he's the goat, right? He's friends. And he's the goat, right? He's friends. And he's the goat, right? He's the guy that did the original the guy that did the original the guy that did the original marshmallow test and he's writing about marshmallow test and he's writing about marshmallow test and he's writing about sexual novelty at the moment and he he sexual novelty at the moment and he he sexual novelty at the moment and he he finds this story of a client that was finds this story of a client that was finds this story of a client that was working with a a working with a a working with a a therapist and she was saying that I therapist and she was saying that I therapist and she was saying that I think this was a long quite a while ago. think this was a long quite a while ago. think this was a long quite a while ago. Um, and she was saying that her husband Um, and she was saying that her husband Um, and she was saying that her husband was uh struggling to be excited in the was uh struggling to be excited in the was uh struggling to be excited in the bedroom and this was a long time before bedroom and this was a long time before bedroom and this was a long time before before porn. And the after a while, you before porn. And the after a while, you before porn. And the after a while, you know, weeks and months of this lady know, weeks and months of this lady know, weeks and months of this lady coming in and this was a repeating coming in and this was a repeating coming in and this was a repeating challenge that was being had. Maybe he's challenge that was being had. Maybe he's challenge that was being had. Maybe he's just a bit old or maybe he's whatever. just a bit old or maybe he's whatever. just a bit old or maybe he's whatever. And the uh the therapist asked, "Have And the uh the therapist asked, "Have And the uh the therapist asked, "Have you sort of what is it that you're doing you sort of what is it that you're doing you sort of what is it that you're doing to him?" And the client said sort of to him?" And the client said sort of to him?" And the client said sort of explained and it was it wasn't explained and it was it wasn't explained and it was it wasn't particularly intimate. Said, "Have you particularly intimate. Said, "Have you particularly intimate. Said, "Have you considered using your hand?" She said, considered using your hand?" She said, considered using your hand?" She said, "Like my my hand on him?" "No." And she "Like my my hand on him?" "No." And she "Like my my hand on him?" "No." And she said, "Okay, why why don't you just try said, "Okay, why why don't you just try said, "Okay, why why don't you just try and do that?" And sure enough went back and do that?" And sure enough went back and do that?" And sure enough went back and this had, you know, the most amazing and this had, you know, the most amazing and this had, you know, the most amazing effect because sexual novelty had been effect because sexual novelty had been effect because sexual novelty had been so constrained to one thing for [ __ ] so constrained to one thing for [ __ ] so constrained to one thing for [ __ ] five decades five decades five decades >> that simply the act like second base >> that simply the act like second base >> that simply the act like second base >> was enough to blow this guy's mind, this >> was enough to blow this guy's mind, this >> was enough to blow this guy's mind, this dude in his 60s or 70s because that was dude in his 60s or 70s because that was dude in his 60s or 70s because that was something that he never got to something that he never got to something that he never got to experience. I just thought that was so experience. I just thought that was so experience. I just thought that was so interesting to, you know, whether it's interesting to, you know, whether it's interesting to, you know, whether it's the um Coolage effect or some sort of the um Coolage effect or some sort of the um Coolage effect or some sort of equivalent like refractory what novelty equivalent like refractory what novelty equivalent like refractory what novelty looks like. Um but this series from looks like. Um but this series from looks like. Um but this series from Bowmeister is [ __ ] sick. He basically Bowmeister is [ __ ] sick. He basically Bowmeister is [ __ ] sick. He basically makes the makes the makes the makes the argument that in a makes the argument that in a makes the argument that in a relationship if this is the one you relationship if this is the one you relationship if this is the one you should titrate the uh sort of sexual should titrate the uh sort of sexual should titrate the uh sort of sexual access and sexual novelty as slowly as access and sexual novelty as slowly as access and sexual novelty as slowly as possible. And possible. And possible. And it's going to suck. I mean, it suck for it's going to suck. I mean, it suck for it's going to suck. I mean, it suck for the women as well. Actually, it won't the women as well. Actually, it won't the women as well. Actually, it won't suck for a long time. Um, but suck for a long time. Um, but suck for a long time. Um, but I I really think that there's something I I really think that there's something I I really think that there's something to it. I really think that he's [ __ ] to it. I really think that he's [ __ ] to it. I really think that he's [ __ ] I think he's [ __ ] nailed it. And he's I think he's [ __ ] nailed it. And he's I think he's [ __ ] nailed it. And he's just all he's doing is respecting the just all he's doing is respecting the just all he's doing is respecting the neurobiology, especially of men. He's neurobiology, especially of men. He's neurobiology, especially of men. He's going to do a separate treatment on going to do a separate treatment on going to do a separate treatment on women. He's only done it on men so far. women. He's only done it on men so far. women. He's only done it on men so far. But basically, if you're like, "This is But basically, if you're like, "This is But basically, if you're like, "This is the chick for me." Okay, move the chick for me." Okay, move the chick for me." Okay, move move as slowly as possible through the move as slowly as possible through the move as slowly as possible through the different stages of doing things because different stages of doing things because different stages of doing things because there is only so much sexual novelty there is only so much sexual novelty there is only so much sexual novelty that you can have and once you've gone that you can have and once you've gone that you can have and once you've gone to the end or close to the end, to the end or close to the end, to the end or close to the end, >> it doesn't feel as exciting to sort of >> it doesn't feel as exciting to sort of >> it doesn't feel as exciting to sort of skip back. If you know how the story skip back. If you know how the story skip back. If you know how the story ends, you know how the book, the series ends, you know how the book, the series ends, you know how the book, the series finishes, finishes, finishes, >> reading the middle bit is just less >> reading the middle bit is just less >> reading the middle bit is just less enlivening. Yeah, sure, I'll give it enlivening. Yeah, sure, I'll give it enlivening. Yeah, sure, I'll give it another read, but it's nowhere near as another read, but it's nowhere near as another read, but it's nowhere near as So he's Yeah, turn one page a week. type So he's Yeah, turn one page a week. type So he's Yeah, turn one page a week. type thing and you know stretch this book out thing and you know stretch this book out thing and you know stretch this book out over a decade or so. I thought it was over a decade or so. I thought it was over a decade or so. I thought it was really interesting. really interesting. really interesting. >> Yeah. I mean, I think that speaks to >> Yeah. I mean, I think that speaks to >> Yeah. I mean, I think that speaks to also why casual sex is not a good thing. also why casual sex is not a good thing. also why casual sex is not a good thing. I think it's better for both sexes to be I think it's better for both sexes to be I think it's better for both sexes to be less promiscuous, but definitely if you less promiscuous, but definitely if you less promiscuous, but definitely if you Well, if you have sex on the first date, Well, if you have sex on the first date, Well, if you have sex on the first date, a man's going to put you in the short a man's going to put you in the short a man's going to put you in the short term bucket, but even if not, I would term bucket, but even if not, I would term bucket, but even if not, I would say even if you have sex too soon and say even if you have sex too soon and say even if you have sex too soon and you're dating somebody at some level you're dating somebody at some level you're dating somebody at some level there, like you said, it's like there, like you said, it's like there, like you said, it's like shortening that book. How how uh how shortening that book. How how uh how shortening that book. How how uh how does it feel to does it feel to does it feel to believe this and say this as a former believe this and say this as a former believe this and say this as a former sex psychologist writer? sex psychologist writer? sex psychologist writer? >> Um I'm probably alienating like 90% of >> Um I'm probably alienating like 90% of >> Um I'm probably alienating like 90% of the field. I mean there are certain the field. I mean there are certain the field. I mean there are certain things when you are in the field I things when you are in the field I things when you are in the field I should say. I have many friends and should say. I have many friends and should say. I have many friends and colleagues who do amazing work and who colleagues who do amazing work and who colleagues who do amazing work and who are very unbiased. They're not are very unbiased. They're not are very unbiased. They're not politically motivated. You know they politically motivated. You know they politically motivated. You know they just do their research and I respect just do their research and I respect just do their research and I respect that. What my issue is when people are that. What my issue is when people are that. What my issue is when people are quote sex positive and they're pushing quote sex positive and they're pushing quote sex positive and they're pushing these narratives that are unhelpful and these narratives that are unhelpful and these narratives that are unhelpful and that I think are doing a disservice to that I think are doing a disservice to that I think are doing a disservice to our society. our society. our society. >> Is it not empowerment >> Is it not empowerment >> Is it not empowerment >> and it's leading us to be sexless >> and it's leading us to be sexless >> and it's leading us to be sexless ultimately? No, I don't think it's ultimately? No, I don't think it's ultimately? No, I don't think it's empowerment. I think it's masked as empowerment. I think it's masked as empowerment. I think it's masked as empowering, but they're lies ultimately. empowering, but they're lies ultimately. empowering, but they're lies ultimately. And I find the fact that people get so And I find the fact that people get so And I find the fact that people get so upset by me challenging these ideas upset by me challenging these ideas upset by me challenging these ideas tells me that I'm on to something tells me that I'm on to something tells me that I'm on to something because why do they get so defensive? If because why do they get so defensive? If because why do they get so defensive? If I if I what I'm saying is completely I if I what I'm saying is completely I if I what I'm saying is completely nonsense, why do they feel the need to nonsense, why do they feel the need to nonsense, why do they feel the need to push back so badly? push back so badly? push back so badly? But yeah, this book is full of um But yeah, this book is full of um But yeah, this book is full of um >> a radical idea. >> a radical idea. >> a radical idea. >> Anti yeah, antisex positivity >> Anti yeah, antisex positivity >> Anti yeah, antisex positivity thoughts that are not allowed, I guess. thoughts that are not allowed, I guess. thoughts that are not allowed, I guess. But it's it was amazing for me to write But it's it was amazing for me to write But it's it was amazing for me to write because I felt I like to challenge because I felt I like to challenge because I felt I like to challenge myself and say if there are thoughts or myself and say if there are thoughts or myself and say if there are thoughts or beliefs that you don't want to look at, beliefs that you don't want to look at, beliefs that you don't want to look at, you have to look at those and you have you have to look at those and you have you have to look at those and you have to ask yourself why you don't want to. to ask yourself why you don't want to. to ask yourself why you don't want to. And if you're afraid of alienating or And if you're afraid of alienating or And if you're afraid of alienating or upsetting people, that's not a reason to upsetting people, that's not a reason to upsetting people, that's not a reason to question. question. question. >> What about sex dolls? What did you >> What about sex dolls? What did you >> What about sex dolls? What did you learn? They good? Are they bad? learn? They good? Are they bad? learn? They good? Are they bad? >> Didn't you Hang on. Didn't you did did >> Didn't you Hang on. Didn't you did did >> Didn't you Hang on. Didn't you did did you design one? you design one? you design one? >> I made one in my likeness. I did. Well, >> I made one in my likeness. I did. Well, >> I made one in my likeness. I did. Well, I was on the hunt to make one likeness. >> I'm not answering that question. >> I'm not answering that question. >> It was actually a lot of fun to go on >> It was actually a lot of fun to go on >> It was actually a lot of fun to go on that exploration. So, in the each that exploration. So, in the each that exploration. So, in the each chapter, I go into a little like mini chapter, I go into a little like mini chapter, I go into a little like mini adventure. That's what I call them where adventure. That's what I call them where adventure. That's what I call them where I go and I research the technology and I go and I research the technology and I go and I research the technology and try it out. And so, I went and explored try it out. And so, I went and explored try it out. And so, I went and explored sex dolls and robots. And it's crazy sex dolls and robots. And it's crazy sex dolls and robots. And it's crazy what's out there. It's very, very what's out there. It's very, very what's out there. It's very, very realistic. I have to say I didn't realistic. I have to say I didn't realistic. I have to say I didn't consummate my relationship with any of consummate my relationship with any of consummate my relationship with any of these dolls, but in terms these dolls, but in terms these dolls, but in terms >> would have been weird to have done it >> would have been weird to have done it >> would have been weird to have done it with your own one. with your own one. with your own one. >> Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking about that. I >> Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking about that. I >> Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking about that. I thought is that technically masturbation thought is that technically masturbation thought is that technically masturbation or is that you know what is that? or is that you know what is that? or is that you know what is that? >> What's what's autogyophilia? Which one's >> What's what's autogyophilia? Which one's >> What's what's autogyophilia? Which one's that one? that one? that one? >> Autoophilia is when you are sexually >> Autoophilia is when you are sexually >> Autoophilia is when you are sexually aroused at the a man is sexually aroused aroused at the a man is sexually aroused aroused at the a man is sexually aroused at the thought of having the body of a at the thought of having the body of a at the thought of having the body of a woman. So when you see someone who's woman. So when you see someone who's woman. So when you see someone who's born male who is has a desire to born male who is has a desire to born male who is has a desire to transition to female, transition to female, transition to female, >> that is if they are attracted to women >> that is if they are attracted to women >> that is if they are attracted to women or if they are attracted to both men and or if they are attracted to both men and or if they are attracted to both men and women. that's autoaganophilia. Whereas women. that's autoaganophilia. Whereas women. that's autoaganophilia. Whereas if they are born male and attracted to if they are born male and attracted to if they are born male and attracted to men and want to transition to female men and want to transition to female men and want to transition to female then they are it's considered the gay then they are it's considered the gay then they are it's considered the gay subtype. So this was my first book the subtype. So this was my first book the subtype. So this was my first book the end of gender but basically yeah end of gender but basically yeah end of gender but basically yeah autoagonophilia is a huge huge motivator autoagonophilia is a huge huge motivator autoagonophilia is a huge huge motivator for the whole trans ideology activism. for the whole trans ideology activism. for the whole trans ideology activism. The ones who are the angriest are The ones who are the angriest are The ones who are the angriest are autoopiles. I wonder if autoopiles. I wonder if autoopiles. I wonder if you would be able to provide them with you would be able to provide them with you would be able to provide them with I wonder if you could get people a self I wonder if you could get people a self I wonder if you could get people a self sex doll of them but the opposite sex. sex doll of them but the opposite sex. sex doll of them but the opposite sex. >> Oh, I've seen some people do this. They >> Oh, I've seen some people do this. They >> Oh, I've seen some people do this. They will get like a will get like a will get like a >> You're [ __ ] kidding me. No, >> You're [ __ ] kidding me. No, >> You're [ __ ] kidding me. No, >> I thought this was a new idea. I was >> I thought this was a new idea. I was >> I thought this was a new idea. I was breaking new ground. I made a joke to breaking new ground. I made a joke to breaking new ground. I made a joke to see if we can eBay your old sex doll and see if we can eBay your old sex doll and see if we can eBay your old sex doll and try and, you know, [ __ ] help the try and, you know, [ __ ] help the try and, you know, [ __ ] help the advance of the book and get some sales advance of the book and get some sales advance of the book and get some sales in there. Yeah. And and then I thought in there. Yeah. And and then I thought in there. Yeah. And and then I thought that this was I thought this was new that this was I thought this was new that this was I thought this was new frontiers, but people have got sex dolls frontiers, but people have got sex dolls frontiers, but people have got sex dolls of themselves in the opposite sex. of themselves in the opposite sex. of themselves in the opposite sex. >> Yeah. And they wear them. >> Yeah. And they wear them. >> Yeah. And they wear them. >> What's wear them mean? >> What's wear them mean? >> What's wear them mean? >> Well, they put it on themselves to >> Well, they put it on themselves to >> Well, they put it on themselves to become that. >> So it's like a suit. >> So it's like a suit. >> Yeah. So it's not really a doll. I guess >> Yeah. So it's not really a doll. I guess >> Yeah. So it's not really a doll. I guess it's more like a rubber suit in but it's it's more like a rubber suit in but it's it's more like a rubber suit in but it's in the fashion to look like a doll to in the fashion to look like a doll to in the fashion to look like a doll to some degree cuz it's like silicone some degree cuz it's like silicone some degree cuz it's like silicone material. material. material. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Mhm. But what else can I tell your >> Mhm. But what else can I tell your >> Mhm. But what else can I tell your audience? It's get we're getting there. audience? It's get we're getting there. audience? It's get we're getting there. The sex robots are definitely coming. The sex robots are definitely coming. The sex robots are definitely coming. They are They are They are >> right. Yeah. >> right. Yeah. >> right. Yeah. >> Okay. What What does ro What's the Is >> Okay. What What does ro What's the Is >> Okay. What What does ro What's the Is there a line between doll and robot? there a line between doll and robot? there a line between doll and robot? >> Once they So right now like the AI >> Once they So right now like the AI >> Once they So right now like the AI software is very I love that chapter, software is very I love that chapter, software is very I love that chapter, right? The chapter on the AI companions right? The chapter on the AI companions right? The chapter on the AI companions was so much fun. It was also just so was so much fun. It was also just so was so much fun. It was also just so frightening for me because they're so frightening for me because they're so frightening for me because they're so realistic. But so that importing that realistic. But so that importing that realistic. But so that importing that into a doll is very much possible. Now into a doll is very much possible. Now into a doll is very much possible. Now it's just about a question of how do you it's just about a question of how do you it's just about a question of how do you get the robot to move in a realistic way get the robot to move in a realistic way get the robot to move in a realistic way sexually. So you have robots that can sexually. So you have robots that can sexually. So you have robots that can say gyrate their hips or um they'll have say gyrate their hips or um they'll have say gyrate their hips or um they'll have like internal suctions in the vagina so like internal suctions in the vagina so like internal suctions in the vagina so it you know helps with an orgasm. Um it you know helps with an orgasm. Um it you know helps with an orgasm. Um what other things can they do? But in what other things can they do? But in what other things can they do? But in terms of the movement it's still quite terms of the movement it's still quite terms of the movement it's still quite limited. I the difference between a ball limited. I the difference between a ball limited. I the difference between a ball a doll and a robot would be that a doll and a robot would be that a doll and a robot would be that physical movement. So a doll is physical movement. So a doll is physical movement. So a doll is stationary or or sometimes they'll hang stationary or or sometimes they'll hang stationary or or sometimes they'll hang them but I guess it's still stationary them but I guess it's still stationary them but I guess it's still stationary like they hang them like they hang them like they hang them >> they'll hang them up on so they're like >> they'll hang them up on so they're like >> they'll hang them up on so they're like standing. standing. standing. >> What are they doing with them when >> What are they doing with them when >> What are they doing with them when they're standing? they're standing? they're standing? Well, you can look that up. Well, you can look that up. Well, you can look that up. >> Okay, fair enough. I I don't need to. >> Okay, fair enough. I I don't need to. >> Okay, fair enough. I I don't need to. Um, Um, Um, I have to assume that the market for sex I have to assume that the market for sex I have to assume that the market for sex dolls is 99.99% dolls is 99.99% dolls is 99.99% men. Or are there some women in this? men. Or are there some women in this? men. Or are there some women in this? >> Mostly men. And during the pandemic, one >> Mostly men. And during the pandemic, one >> Mostly men. And during the pandemic, one company told me they made $20 million in company told me they made $20 million in company told me they made $20 million in sales, which is astronomical. sales, which is astronomical. sales, which is astronomical. >> And it is mostly high school educated. >> And it is mostly high school educated. >> And it is mostly high school educated. So on average high school educated men So on average high school educated men So on average high school educated men who make about 40k who make about 40k who make about 40k a year a year a year >> how much are the dollars >> how much are the dollars >> how much are the dollars >> divorced >> divorced >> divorced >> starts at 100 couple hundred to tens of >> starts at 100 couple hundred to tens of >> starts at 100 couple hundred to tens of thousands depending how realistic you thousands depending how realistic you thousands depending how realistic you want it to be. want it to be. want it to be. >> So if you're a blue collar worker you're >> So if you're a blue collar worker you're >> So if you're a blue collar worker you're going for the more sort of entry level going for the more sort of entry level going for the more sort of entry level >> yeah one. >> yeah one. >> yeah one. >> Yeah. Um there are some guys who are say >> Yeah. Um there are some guys who are say >> Yeah. Um there are some guys who are say make more like I'm thinking of one make more like I'm thinking of one make more like I'm thinking of one particular study where they had the particular study where they had the particular study where they had the income and so some guys making say more income and so some guys making say more income and so some guys making say more than six figures will have the dolls but than six figures will have the dolls but than six figures will have the dolls but >> um it tends to be more among men who >> um it tends to be more among men who >> um it tends to be more among men who either I think are quite heartbroken and either I think are quite heartbroken and either I think are quite heartbroken and they don't want to bother going through they don't want to bother going through they don't want to bother going through or they're divorced they don't want to or they're divorced they don't want to or they're divorced they don't want to go through the process of dating go through the process of dating go through the process of dating >> or it's guys who want to have sexual >> or it's guys who want to have sexual >> or it's guys who want to have sexual novelty but they can't actually either novelty but they can't actually either novelty but they can't actually either attract real life partners or they don't attract real life partners or they don't attract real life partners or they don't have the means for it so they'll buy the have the means for it so they'll buy the have the means for it so they'll buy the dolls instead. dolls instead. dolls instead. >> That makes me sad. The idea that, you >> That makes me sad. The idea that, you >> That makes me sad. The idea that, you know, someone's past emotional know, someone's past emotional know, someone's past emotional challenges, you know, whether deserved challenges, you know, whether deserved challenges, you know, whether deserved or accidental or purposeful, victimized, or accidental or purposeful, victimized, or accidental or purposeful, victimized, whatever, uh, causes them to sort of whatever, uh, causes them to sort of whatever, uh, causes them to sort of turn away entirely from human. turn away entirely from human. turn away entirely from human. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I suppose that the fact that you you >> And I suppose that the fact that you you >> And I suppose that the fact that you you now have this option for someone to I now have this option for someone to I now have this option for someone to I don't need to. You can just you can just don't need to. You can just you can just don't need to. You can just you can just What about the AI companions thing? I What about the AI companions thing? I What about the AI companions thing? I saw a bunch of Fur two or 3 weeks ago saw a bunch of Fur two or 3 weeks ago saw a bunch of Fur two or 3 weeks ago when Chhat GBT discontinued 40 and 40 when Chhat GBT discontinued 40 and 40 when Chhat GBT discontinued 40 and 40 had a very particular type of had a very particular type of had a very particular type of personality to it and that personality to it and that personality to it and that discontinuation was discontinuation was discontinuation was >> for lots of people. There was a >> for lots of people. There was a >> for lots of people. There was a subreddit and I can't remember what it's subreddit and I can't remember what it's subreddit and I can't remember what it's called AI partner/I partner or called AI partner/I partner or called AI partner/I partner or something. uh something. uh something. uh people being in beyond hysterics like people being in beyond hysterics like people being in beyond hysterics like like absolutely [ __ ] heartbroken by like absolutely [ __ ] heartbroken by like absolutely [ __ ] heartbroken by it. So what what was your experience it. So what what was your experience it. So what what was your experience with AI with AI with AI >> companions? >> companions? >> companions? >> Cuz people do fall in love with their AI >> Cuz people do fall in love with their AI >> Cuz people do fall in love with their AI chatbots and I before I tested them out, chatbots and I before I tested them out, chatbots and I before I tested them out, I didn't think such a thing would be I didn't think such a thing would be I didn't think such a thing would be possible because I didn't think that the possible because I didn't think that the possible because I didn't think that the technology was that realistic technology was that realistic technology was that realistic >> until you fell in love with one. >> until you fell in love with one. >> until you fell in love with one. >> Until I fell in love with all of my >> Until I fell in love with all of my >> Until I fell in love with all of my dozens of AI boyfriends. dozens of AI boyfriends. dozens of AI boyfriends. >> You had dozens? >> You had dozens? >> You had dozens? >> I had dozens. >> I had dozens. >> I had dozens. >> Do you like Bonnie Blue? >> Do you like Bonnie Blue? >> Do you like Bonnie Blue? >> Go on. I had girlfriends, too. So, I had >> Go on. I had girlfriends, too. So, I had >> Go on. I had girlfriends, too. So, I had >> so I made dozens of them across dozens >> so I made dozens of them across dozens >> so I made dozens of them across dozens of platforms. I really wanted to try of platforms. I really wanted to try of platforms. I really wanted to try them all out to see what what are where them all out to see what what are where them all out to see what what are where are they at. are they at. are they at. >> And there were a couple platforms where >> And there were a couple platforms where >> And there were a couple platforms where definitely more realistic. But I will definitely more realistic. But I will definitely more realistic. But I will say what happened with Chad GPT. That's say what happened with Chad GPT. That's say what happened with Chad GPT. That's not the first time. There's another not the first time. There's another not the first time. There's another platform that something similar happened platform that something similar happened platform that something similar happened a couple years ago where they removed a couple years ago where they removed a couple years ago where they removed the erotic role playinging capabilities the erotic role playinging capabilities the erotic role playinging capabilities or they put it behind a payw wall and or they put it behind a payw wall and or they put it behind a payw wall and people were so devastated because they people were so devastated because they people were so devastated because they said my AI doesn't remember me anymore. said my AI doesn't remember me anymore. said my AI doesn't remember me anymore. Like they're really cold. reminded them Like they're really cold. reminded them Like they're really cold. reminded them of being socially rejected in the past of being socially rejected in the past of being socially rejected in the past and it's really upsetting for them. So and it's really upsetting for them. So and it's really upsetting for them. So again, I mean I the scientist side of me again, I mean I the scientist side of me again, I mean I the scientist side of me thinks like this is so cool and so crazy thinks like this is so cool and so crazy thinks like this is so cool and so crazy that we're advancing so quickly, but that we're advancing so quickly, but that we're advancing so quickly, but then the other part of me says, "Wait a then the other part of me says, "Wait a then the other part of me says, "Wait a minute." Like look at where we are right minute." Like look at where we are right minute." Like look at where we are right now as a society and is this really a now as a society and is this really a now as a society and is this really a good thing because what is this going to good thing because what is this going to good thing because what is this going to do now if we have this discrepancy in do now if we have this discrepancy in do now if we have this discrepancy in terms of the sex ratio and people having terms of the sex ratio and people having terms of the sex ratio and people having sex and people not even wanting to sex and people not even wanting to sex and people not even wanting to connect or date? You know, there's a connect or date? You know, there's a connect or date? You know, there's a study by Pew showing that over half of study by Pew showing that over half of study by Pew showing that over half of single people are not interested in single people are not interested in single people are not interested in dating at all. M. dating at all. M. dating at all. M. >> So now you're >> So now you're >> So now you're >> not in short-term, not in casual or >> not in short-term, not in casual or >> not in short-term, not in casual or long-term mating. long-term mating. long-term mating. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> it's wild. I remember seeing that study. >> it's wild. I remember seeing that study. >> it's wild. I remember seeing that study. >> It's going to be so easy just to go down >> It's going to be so easy just to go down >> It's going to be so easy just to go down the route of one of these alternatives the route of one of these alternatives the route of one of these alternatives and it they are so realistic like you and it they are so realistic like you and it they are so realistic like you really cannot tell that it is an AI. If really cannot tell that it is an AI. If really cannot tell that it is an AI. If I had not programmed it and myself had I had not programmed it and myself had I had not programmed it and myself had said this is your name, this is what you said this is your name, this is what you said this is your name, this is what you look like. This is your personality. look like. This is your personality. look like. This is your personality. >> It's only over text though, right? Is it >> It's only over text though, right? Is it >> It's only over text though, right? Is it or is it voice? or is it voice? or is it voice? >> You could do voice too. >> You could do voice too. >> You could do voice too. >> So kind of like when you speak to chat >> So kind of like when you speak to chat >> So kind of like when you speak to chat GBT. GBT. GBT. >> Yeah. I thought like it sounded like a >> Yeah. I thought like it sounded like a >> Yeah. I thought like it sounded like a real person I was talking to. And real person I was talking to. And real person I was talking to. And >> does it push into erotica as well? >> does it push into erotica as well? >> does it push into erotica as well? >> Yeah. Yeah. They flirt with you. They >> Yeah. Yeah. They flirt with you. They >> Yeah. Yeah. They flirt with you. They get like if you're sarcastic, they pick get like if you're sarcastic, they pick get like if you're sarcastic, they pick up on it. It was crazy. Like I really up on it. It was crazy. Like I really up on it. It was crazy. Like I really thought it was going to be very stilted. thought it was going to be very stilted. thought it was going to be very stilted. Some of them are still like that where Some of them are still like that where Some of them are still like that where you some platforms you have to be very you some platforms you have to be very you some platforms you have to be very literal literal literal >> really work with it. >> really work with it. >> really work with it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> They're a difficult partner. >> They're a difficult partner. >> They're a difficult partner. >> Yeah. Uh >> Yeah. Uh >> Yeah. Uh okay. So what what is the biggest story okay. So what what is the biggest story okay. So what what is the biggest story about sort of human about sort of human about sort of human needs and and relating beyond bits just needs and and relating beyond bits just needs and and relating beyond bits just not not going into bits at the same rate not not going into bits at the same rate not not going into bits at the same rate anymore? Like people aren't doing the anymore? Like people aren't doing the anymore? Like people aren't doing the thing. But what what does that tell us thing. But what what does that tell us thing. But what what does that tell us about about about the ways that humans are connecting? the ways that humans are connecting? the ways that humans are connecting? What's a deeper lesson What's a deeper lesson What's a deeper lesson >> that we're not connecting? That's what I >> that we're not connecting? That's what I >> that we're not connecting? That's what I think there are a lot of standins for think there are a lot of standins for think there are a lot of standins for connection. Like something as simple as connection. Like something as simple as connection. Like something as simple as having a conversation person versus over having a conversation person versus over having a conversation person versus over a screen. There's there's a difference a screen. There's there's a difference a screen. There's there's a difference there. There's a difference biologically there. There's a difference biologically there. There's a difference biologically in terms of like how we respond to that. in terms of like how we respond to that. in terms of like how we respond to that. And I just think more broadly in society And I just think more broadly in society And I just think more broadly in society like if you go out I'm sure Austin is like if you go out I'm sure Austin is like if you go out I'm sure Austin is the same as Toronto where most or maybe the same as Toronto where most or maybe the same as Toronto where most or maybe it's not but most people are on their it's not but most people are on their it's not but most people are on their phones you know when I'm thinking when phones you know when I'm thinking when phones you know when I'm thinking when you're at the airport you're on the you're at the airport you're on the you're at the airport you're on the plane every everywhere in public plane every everywhere in public plane every everywhere in public everyone is just on their phone all the everyone is just on their phone all the everyone is just on their phone all the time. people don't really talk to each time. people don't really talk to each time. people don't really talk to each other, even make eye contact. And I I do other, even make eye contact. And I I do other, even make eye contact. And I I do think that has larger ramifications think that has larger ramifications think that has larger ramifications beyond something so small as preferring beyond something so small as preferring beyond something so small as preferring to look at your phone, to look at your phone, to look at your phone, >> you know, cuz you're bored or whatever. >> you know, cuz you're bored or whatever. >> you know, cuz you're bored or whatever. And so I think that over time has has And so I think that over time has has And so I think that over time has has snowballed into this thing where we are snowballed into this thing where we are snowballed into this thing where we are very much like enclosed. We all have our very much like enclosed. We all have our very much like enclosed. We all have our own little bubbles because it's like the own little bubbles because it's like the own little bubbles because it's like the norm now socially. It's very it's seen norm now socially. It's very it's seen norm now socially. It's very it's seen as weird to talk to strangers or to make as weird to talk to strangers or to make as weird to talk to strangers or to make small talk or it's like cringey or small talk or it's like cringey or small talk or it's like cringey or whatever. But especially in romance in whatever. But especially in romance in whatever. But especially in romance in terms of romantic context like terms of romantic context like terms of romantic context like everything is made to be so simple and everything is made to be so simple and everything is made to be so simple and convenient with like dating apps or convenient with like dating apps or convenient with like dating apps or people say using using social media to people say using using social media to people say using using social media to meet but that's not really meeting meet but that's not really meeting meet but that's not really meeting someone in real life. And it's almost as someone in real life. And it's almost as someone in real life. And it's almost as though the convenience of it is a reason though the convenience of it is a reason though the convenience of it is a reason as to why people don't take it so as to why people don't take it so as to why people don't take it so seriously. Right? If it's so easy to seriously. Right? If it's so easy to seriously. Right? If it's so easy to meet people, meet people, meet people, >> why would you care? Why you it didn't >> why would you care? Why you it didn't >> why would you care? Why you it didn't cost you anything. It didn't require cost you anything. It didn't require cost you anything. It didn't require anything of you. anything of you. anything of you. >> Yeah. A home-cooked meal is treated with >> Yeah. A home-cooked meal is treated with >> Yeah. A home-cooked meal is treated with more love than a McDonald's. more love than a McDonald's. more love than a McDonald's. >> Yeah. Although, I mean, I'm very >> Yeah. Although, I mean, I'm very >> Yeah. Although, I mean, I'm very healthy, but I would say, you know, healthy, but I would say, you know, healthy, but I would say, you know, McDonald's was great at one point. McDonald's was great at one point. McDonald's was great at one point. >> McDonald's is good, but you're never >> McDonald's is good, but you're never >> McDonald's is good, but you're never going to look at it and think, um, the going to look at it and think, um, the going to look at it and think, um, the this is a very valuable meal unless this is a very valuable meal unless this is a very valuable meal unless you're starving, you're starving, you're starving, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> Um, okay. What about fertility rates and >> Um, okay. What about fertility rates and >> Um, okay. What about fertility rates and reproduction? Like, because ultimately reproduction? Like, because ultimately reproduction? Like, because ultimately everything that we've spoken about up everything that we've spoken about up everything that we've spoken about up until now is until now is until now is the approximate reason for behavior, the approximate reason for behavior, the approximate reason for behavior, right? All of it is just it's pleasure right? All of it is just it's pleasure right? All of it is just it's pleasure and it's connection and it's all the and it's connection and it's all the and it's connection and it's all the rest of it. But the ultimate reason for rest of it. But the ultimate reason for rest of it. But the ultimate reason for the behavior is to reproduce. the behavior is to reproduce. the behavior is to reproduce. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. It is the same. It is not far off >> Right. It is the same. It is not far off >> Right. It is the same. It is not far off the same as saying we have managed to the same as saying we have managed to the same as saying we have managed to construct a world in which these screens construct a world in which these screens construct a world in which these screens and this media and these xenoestrogens and this media and these xenoestrogens and this media and these xenoestrogens and this culture and these thoughts and and this culture and these thoughts and and this culture and these thoughts and the way that this has come together has the way that this has come together has the way that this has come together has caused people to throw themselves off of caused people to throw themselves off of caused people to throw themselves off of buildings. Like because genetically that buildings. Like because genetically that buildings. Like because genetically that is the equivalent, right? Survival and is the equivalent, right? Survival and is the equivalent, right? Survival and reproduction. And the only reason for reproduction. And the only reason for reproduction. And the only reason for the survival is so that you can do the the survival is so that you can do the the survival is so that you can do the reproduction. If you didn't need to reproduction. If you didn't need to reproduction. If you didn't need to survive, it would just be reproduction. survive, it would just be reproduction. survive, it would just be reproduction. How how have we managed to get ourselves How how have we managed to get ourselves How how have we managed to get ourselves to the stage where an animal has been to the stage where an animal has been to the stage where an animal has been convinced to select themselves out of convinced to select themselves out of convinced to select themselves out of breeding? breeding? breeding? >> Because life is so >> Because life is so >> Because life is so distractable. We're so distracted, distractable. We're so distracted, distractable. We're so distracted, right? It's so easy to be right? It's so easy to be right? It's so easy to be well relationships are hard, right? well relationships are hard, right? well relationships are hard, right? Dating is hard. Finding someone is hard. Dating is hard. Finding someone is hard. Dating is hard. Finding someone is hard. Connecting with people is hard because Connecting with people is hard because Connecting with people is hard because people are unreliable. people are unreliable. people are unreliable. People have their own decisions and People have their own decisions and People have their own decisions and autonomy as they should. And so when you autonomy as they should. And so when you autonomy as they should. And so when you have alternatives, either romantic have alternatives, either romantic have alternatives, either romantic alternatives or just ways to pass the alternatives or just ways to pass the alternatives or just ways to pass the time that don't involve that messiness, time that don't involve that messiness, time that don't involve that messiness, I think it can can be quite alluring. So I think it can can be quite alluring. So I think it can can be quite alluring. So I agree with you. I don't think everyone I agree with you. I don't think everyone I agree with you. I don't think everyone has to have children, has to have children, has to have children, >> but I do think for people who want kids, >> but I do think for people who want kids, >> but I do think for people who want kids, like I'm I'm concerned about the people like I'm I'm concerned about the people like I'm I'm concerned about the people who like one of the reasons for 25% of who like one of the reasons for 25% of who like one of the reasons for 25% of people who aren't having children, they people who aren't having children, they people who aren't having children, they say the reason is because they haven't say the reason is because they haven't say the reason is because they haven't found somebody, found somebody, found somebody, >> which I imagine is quite devastating. >> which I imagine is quite devastating. >> which I imagine is quite devastating. And so I also talk in the book about And so I also talk in the book about And so I also talk in the book about single motherhood by choice and the fact single motherhood by choice and the fact single motherhood by choice and the fact that there are real implications for that there are real implications for that there are real implications for this discrepancy in terms of the sex this discrepancy in terms of the sex this discrepancy in terms of the sex bias and people not wanting to connect bias and people not wanting to connect bias and people not wanting to connect or people say not being able to connect. or people say not being able to connect. or people say not being able to connect. women. women. women. >> What discrepancy? Sorry. >> What discrepancy? Sorry. >> What discrepancy? Sorry. >> Oh, just that there are fewer viable >> Oh, just that there are fewer viable >> Oh, just that there are fewer viable men. So, and these men typically are men. So, and these men typically are men. So, and these men typically are less interested in settling down or less interested in settling down or less interested in settling down or there's going to be less commitment as a there's going to be less commitment as a there's going to be less commitment as a result of that because when you have a result of that because when you have a result of that because when you have a smaller pool of men like on university smaller pool of men like on university smaller pool of men like on university campuses where you have campuses where you have campuses where you have >> fewer men than women, men are going to >> fewer men than women, men are going to >> fewer men than women, men are going to set the terms of dating and set the terms of dating and set the terms of dating and relationships and sex. relationships and sex. relationships and sex. >> That's what you were talking about >> That's what you were talking about >> That's what you were talking about earlier on that women think that if men earlier on that women think that if men earlier on that women think that if men are more desperate socioeconomically are more desperate socioeconomically are more desperate socioeconomically that they'll work harder for the women. that they'll work harder for the women. that they'll work harder for the women. It's kind of like a a perspective around It's kind of like a a perspective around It's kind of like a a perspective around sex ratios. They have an implicit sex ratios. They have an implicit sex ratios. They have an implicit understanding around sex ratios. They understanding around sex ratios. They understanding around sex ratios. They just don't understand mating preferences just don't understand mating preferences just don't understand mating preferences from women to men, which is that they're from women to men, which is that they're from women to men, which is that they're going to largely be invisible. going to largely be invisible. going to largely be invisible. >> Yeah. Well, that men are going to be >> Yeah. Well, that men are going to be >> Yeah. Well, that men are going to be setting the terms then of of dating. So, setting the terms then of of dating. So, setting the terms then of of dating. So, the high value men will be. the high value men will be. the high value men will be. >> Yeah. In terms of how soon you're going >> Yeah. In terms of how soon you're going >> Yeah. In terms of how soon you're going to have to have sex or they'll go to have to have sex or they'll go to have to have sex or they'll go somewhere else or, you know, if they somewhere else or, you know, if they somewhere else or, you know, if they want to have they want commitment from want to have they want commitment from want to have they want commitment from you, but they want to be poly quote you, but they want to be poly quote you, but they want to be poly quote polymerous or whatever, you're going to polymerous or whatever, you're going to polymerous or whatever, you're going to have to put up with that. have to put up with that. have to put up with that. >> I I learned a new term last year which >> I I learned a new term last year which >> I I learned a new term last year which is solo poly. is solo poly. is solo poly. >> Oh, yeah. Remind me what that is. I've >> Oh, yeah. Remind me what that is. I've >> Oh, yeah. Remind me what that is. I've heard of this. heard of this. heard of this. >> It's a guy typically or it's it's a >> It's a guy typically or it's it's a >> It's a guy typically or it's it's a person who is uh just sleeping around. person who is uh just sleeping around. person who is uh just sleeping around. Um it's just a guy it's just guy that's Um it's just a guy it's just guy that's Um it's just a guy it's just guy that's sleeping around. But I think that a lot sleeping around. But I think that a lot sleeping around. But I think that a lot of the partners may think that they're of the partners may think that they're of the partners may think that they're >> I see >> I see >> I see >> they're the hub and then there's lot >> they're the hub and then there's lot >> they're the hub and then there's lot there's lots of spokes coming off solo there's lots of spokes coming off solo there's lots of spokes coming off solo poly. poly. poly. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. When it comes to the reproduction thing, When it comes to the reproduction thing, When it comes to the reproduction thing, you mentioned IVF, fertility windows, you mentioned IVF, fertility windows, you mentioned IVF, fertility windows, other stuff. What else is interesting? other stuff. What else is interesting? other stuff. What else is interesting? My issue with that again and if people My issue with that again and if people My issue with that again and if people choose to seek these interventions, you choose to seek these interventions, you choose to seek these interventions, you know, it's not my place to judge them. I know, it's not my place to judge them. I know, it's not my place to judge them. I I can understand if you want to have a I can understand if you want to have a I can understand if you want to have a family and it's going to help you, then family and it's going to help you, then family and it's going to help you, then I understand why people go that path. I understand why people go that path. I understand why people go that path. But my concern is that we're not But my concern is that we're not But my concern is that we're not rectifying the underlying issues. So if rectifying the underlying issues. So if rectifying the underlying issues. So if the issue is women can't find a partner the issue is women can't find a partner the issue is women can't find a partner with whom they'd like to settle down with whom they'd like to settle down with whom they'd like to settle down with or there are fertility issues on with or there are fertility issues on with or there are fertility issues on the man or the woman's um side or both the man or the woman's um side or both the man or the woman's um side or both people's side, then these interventions people's side, then these interventions people's side, then these interventions aren't really solving the underlying aren't really solving the underlying aren't really solving the underlying problem, right? And so that's only just problem, right? And so that's only just problem, right? And so that's only just going to get worse for future going to get worse for future going to get worse for future generations and for the individual generations and for the individual generations and for the individual people who are potentially undergoing people who are potentially undergoing people who are potentially undergoing these interventions. these interventions. these interventions. >> I got in a lot of trouble for talking >> I got in a lot of trouble for talking >> I got in a lot of trouble for talking about birthright declined this year. about birthright declined this year. about birthright declined this year. >> Oh, really? >> Oh, really? >> Oh, really? >> Before the year even started, I got in >> Before the year even started, I got in >> Before the year even started, I got in loads of trouble about it. Um, I did loads of trouble about it. Um, I did loads of trouble about it. Um, I did some more digging. I went and did some some more digging. I went and did some some more digging. I went and did some sort of quite hardcore data digging sort of quite hardcore data digging sort of quite hardcore data digging around this. One interesting fact that I around this. One interesting fact that I around this. One interesting fact that I found was that the total maternal rate found was that the total maternal rate found was that the total maternal rate has basically not changed. The TMR it's has basically not changed. The TMR it's has basically not changed. The TMR it's called total maternal rate is the number called total maternal rate is the number called total maternal rate is the number of children per mother. The number of of children per mother. The number of of children per mother. The number of children per mother I think has gone children per mother I think has gone children per mother I think has gone from over the last 50 years something from over the last 50 years something from over the last 50 years something like 2.6 to 2.45 2.4 something like like 2.6 to 2.45 2.4 something like like 2.6 to 2.45 2.4 something like that. Uh so it is not the big difference that. Uh so it is not the big difference that. Uh so it is not the big difference is not um mothers having fewer children is not um mothers having fewer children is not um mothers having fewer children it's women not becoming mothers. M and it's women not becoming mothers. M and it's women not becoming mothers. M and again I got one of the things I got again I got one of the things I got again I got one of the things I got shouted out about was uh putting it all shouted out about was uh putting it all shouted out about was uh putting it all on women. Unfortunately um census data, on women. Unfortunately um census data, on women. Unfortunately um census data, World Health Organization, CDC, the only World Health Organization, CDC, the only World Health Organization, CDC, the only people who uh they only capture data people who uh they only capture data people who uh they only capture data about mothers. about mothers. about mothers. >> Like they don't have fatherhood data, >> Like they don't have fatherhood data, >> Like they don't have fatherhood data, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> Um >> Um >> Um parental uncertainty might contribute a parental uncertainty might contribute a parental uncertainty might contribute a little bit to that. Absentee fathers and little bit to that. Absentee fathers and little bit to that. Absentee fathers and stuff like that as well. abandoning stuff like that as well. abandoning stuff like that as well. abandoning mothers like pregnant women like might mothers like pregnant women like might mothers like pregnant women like might contribute too. But anyway, um so you contribute too. But anyway, um so you contribute too. But anyway, um so you have have have four out of five women who end up four out of five women who end up four out of five women who end up without children having broken through without children having broken through without children having broken through menopause didn't intend to be childless. menopause didn't intend to be childless. menopause didn't intend to be childless. It's called involuntary childlessness. It's called involuntary childlessness. It's called involuntary childlessness. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. >> You've got this really interesting >> You've got this really interesting >> You've got this really interesting situation which I don't know why more situation which I don't know why more situation which I don't know why more women I understand why more women aren't women I understand why more women aren't women I understand why more women aren't talking about it because talking about it because talking about it because it kind of goes counter to what the it kind of goes counter to what the it kind of goes counter to what the current very current very current very pushed narrative is. But that's 80% four pushed narrative is. But that's 80% four pushed narrative is. But that's 80% four out of five women who end up without out of five women who end up without out of five women who end up without kids who didn't intend to end up without kids who didn't intend to end up without kids who didn't intend to end up without kids. Around about 10% of women can't kids. Around about 10% of women can't kids. Around about 10% of women can't physiologically, physiologically, physiologically, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> Uh awful pain, grief. Around about 10% >> Uh awful pain, grief. Around about 10% >> Uh awful pain, grief. Around about 10% of women don't want to voluntary of women don't want to voluntary of women don't want to voluntary childlessness. childlessness. childlessness. Then four out of five women have support Then four out of five women have support Then four out of five women have support groups with other women to grieve over groups with other women to grieve over groups with other women to grieve over families that they never had. Like who families that they never had. Like who families that they never had. Like who the [ __ ] campaigning for them? That the [ __ ] campaigning for them? That the [ __ ] campaigning for them? That feels like a group that's really feels like a group that's really feels like a group that's really important. important. important. >> Really, really important and ever >> Really, really important and ever >> Really, really important and ever growing. You have this weird dynamic at growing. You have this weird dynamic at growing. You have this weird dynamic at the moment which is any woman who is the moment which is any woman who is the moment which is any woman who is still fertile can endorse the view that still fertile can endorse the view that still fertile can endorse the view that women don't need to have kids without women don't need to have kids without women don't need to have kids without having to embody it because until they having to embody it because until they having to embody it because until they can no longer have it, they always have can no longer have it, they always have can no longer have it, they always have the option to still do it, the option to still do it, the option to still do it, >> right? And I wonder I I really hope that >> right? And I wonder I I really hope that >> right? And I wonder I I really hope that this isn't the case, but I get the sense this isn't the case, but I get the sense this isn't the case, but I get the sense that I'm right but early on this that that I'm right but early on this that that I'm right but early on this that we're going to see a huge [ __ ] crisis we're going to see a huge [ __ ] crisis we're going to see a huge [ __ ] crisis of middle-aged femininity within the of middle-aged femininity within the of middle-aged femininity within the next 15 years when a lot of Gen Z and next 15 years when a lot of Gen Z and next 15 years when a lot of Gen Z and millennial women age out of their millennial women age out of their millennial women age out of their ability to have kids and ability to have kids and ability to have kids and focused on one area of life that they focused on one area of life that they focused on one area of life that they maybe really enjoyed and took a lot of maybe really enjoyed and took a lot of maybe really enjoyed and took a lot of value from. and and you know, good for value from. and and you know, good for value from. and and you know, good for you. You've got your you don't need to you. You've got your you don't need to you. You've got your you don't need to be beholden to anybody and that's be beholden to anybody and that's be beholden to anybody and that's awesome. Um, but to to sort of turn awesome. Um, but to to sort of turn awesome. Um, but to to sort of turn around and go, [ __ ] I I I I wish I'd around and go, [ __ ] I I I I wish I'd around and go, [ __ ] I I I I wish I'd done something different. I really hope done something different. I really hope done something different. I really hope that that's not the case. I don't I that that's not the case. I don't I that that's not the case. I don't I don't take any glee in women who don't don't take any glee in women who don't don't take any glee in women who don't want to have kids having them and women want to have kids having them and women want to have kids having them and women that want to have kids not being able that want to have kids not being able that want to have kids not being able to. Um, but I to. Um, but I to. Um, but I >> I think I think we're going to see you >> I think I think we're going to see you >> I think I think we're going to see you think that the [ __ ] crisis of think that the [ __ ] crisis of think that the [ __ ] crisis of masculinity is bad at the moment among masculinity is bad at the moment among masculinity is bad at the moment among young men. I think that the one around young men. I think that the one around young men. I think that the one around women is going to be way worse. women is going to be way worse. women is going to be way worse. >> Yeah, I think being able to talk about >> Yeah, I think being able to talk about >> Yeah, I think being able to talk about especially women's work life balance and especially women's work life balance and especially women's work life balance and the how women structure their lives is the how women structure their lives is the how women structure their lives is important to be able to talk about it important to be able to talk about it important to be able to talk about it honestly because like you said I think honestly because like you said I think honestly because like you said I think there's a real push for young women to there's a real push for young women to there's a real push for young women to focus on career and you know I'm all for focus on career and you know I'm all for focus on career and you know I'm all for women being ambitious and making their women being ambitious and making their women being ambitious and making their own money and being successful. I think own money and being successful. I think own money and being successful. I think that's fantastic but I think there is that's fantastic but I think there is that's fantastic but I think there is this false idea that motherhood is this false idea that motherhood is this false idea that motherhood is somehow a burden or that it's somehow a burden or that it's somehow a burden or that it's unimportant. I think both sides of the unimportant. I think both sides of the unimportant. I think both sides of the political aisle make some good points political aisle make some good points political aisle make some good points and also make some fallacies in that I and also make some fallacies in that I and also make some fallacies in that I think say progressives will say think say progressives will say think say progressives will say motherhood is terrible you know it's uh motherhood is terrible you know it's uh motherhood is terrible you know it's uh what what's the term that they use what what's the term that they use what what's the term that they use >> domestic prostitute >> domestic prostitute >> domestic prostitute >> no that's an interesting way of putting >> no that's an interesting way of putting >> no that's an interesting way of putting it something about what is it the cost it something about what is it the cost it something about what is it the cost so basically that you know like you're so basically that you know like you're so basically that you know like you're you're going to be destitute because as you're going to be destitute because as you're going to be destitute because as a woman you have to be a woman you have to be a woman you have to be >> no more financial independence you're >> no more financial independence you're >> no more financial independence you're relying on relying on relying on >> it's so expensive and you know if you to >> it's so expensive and you know if you to >> it's so expensive and you know if you to um focus on raising a family, then you um focus on raising a family, then you um focus on raising a family, then you don't make money and then you put don't make money and then you put don't make money and then you put yourself in potentially abusive yourself in potentially abusive yourself in potentially abusive situations like it, you know, like situations like it, you know, like situations like it, you know, like there's all that which I, you know, can there's all that which I, you know, can there's all that which I, you know, can happen. happen. happen. >> Mhm. No one wants to be a financial >> Mhm. No one wants to be a financial >> Mhm. No one wants to be a financial prisoner. This is what no one talks prisoner. This is what no one talks prisoner. This is what no one talks about about the low divorce rate in the about about the low divorce rate in the about about the low divorce rate in the past that how much of the low divorce past that how much of the low divorce past that how much of the low divorce rate was because the women had nowhere rate was because the women had nowhere rate was because the women had nowhere else to go. else to go. else to go. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, I understand that side >> Yeah. Yeah. So, I understand that side >> Yeah. Yeah. So, I understand that side of it, but at the same time, you know, of it, but at the same time, you know, of it, but at the same time, you know, if a woman decides to have children, she if a woman decides to have children, she if a woman decides to have children, she is going to be the primary um caretaker. is going to be the primary um caretaker. is going to be the primary um caretaker. Like the way that progressives frame it Like the way that progressives frame it Like the way that progressives frame it is that the man can just step in and do is that the man can just step in and do is that the man can just step in and do half of the chores and whatever. No, the half of the chores and whatever. No, the half of the chores and whatever. No, the baby's going to prefer moms. baby's going to prefer moms. baby's going to prefer moms. Mom's body. Mom's body. Mom's body. >> Baby wants mom. >> Baby wants mom. >> Baby wants mom. >> Yeah. And then the other side is, you >> Yeah. And then the other side is, you >> Yeah. And then the other side is, you know, cuz not all conservatives, but know, cuz not all conservatives, but know, cuz not all conservatives, but there's a sentiment among conservatives there's a sentiment among conservatives there's a sentiment among conservatives to tell young women, don't worry about to tell young women, don't worry about to tell young women, don't worry about your education and career. Just get your education and career. Just get your education and career. Just get married young, have tons of children, married young, have tons of children, married young, have tons of children, and worry about your career later. But and worry about your career later. But and worry about your career later. But that's difficult. If you have no work that's difficult. If you have no work that's difficult. If you have no work experience, how are you going to get a experience, how are you going to get a experience, how are you going to get a job in your field? Especially nowadays, job in your field? Especially nowadays, job in your field? Especially nowadays, if you have no work experience, right? if you have no work experience, right? if you have no work experience, right? especially given how difficult it is to especially given how difficult it is to especially given how difficult it is to support a family on a a single person support a family on a a single person support a family on a a single person income. income. income. >> That too. >> That too. >> That too. >> So, look, I I I think that everybody >> So, look, I I I think that everybody >> So, look, I I I think that everybody that wants to have kids should be able that wants to have kids should be able that wants to have kids should be able to afford to have kids. And the fact to afford to have kids. And the fact to afford to have kids. And the fact that people can't afford to have kids or that people can't afford to have kids or that people can't afford to have kids or more accurately, I think feel like they more accurately, I think feel like they more accurately, I think feel like they can't afford to have kids. Um given that can't afford to have kids. Um given that can't afford to have kids. Um given that the poorest countries are the ones that the poorest countries are the ones that the poorest countries are the ones that have got the highest birth rates, have got the highest birth rates, have got the highest birth rates, >> um I think that's awful. I think it's >> um I think that's awful. I think it's >> um I think that's awful. I think it's awful that people can't afford to have awful that people can't afford to have awful that people can't afford to have kids or feel like they can't afford to kids or feel like they can't afford to kids or feel like they can't afford to have kids. But I don't think that that's have kids. But I don't think that that's have kids. But I don't think that that's the issue. I think if you were to ask the issue. I think if you were to ask the issue. I think if you were to ask any couple or almost any couple, any couple or almost any couple, any couple or almost any couple, especially married couple, what's the especially married couple, what's the especially married couple, what's the reason that you haven't yet had kids, reason that you haven't yet had kids, reason that you haven't yet had kids, it's not going to be that they're too it's not going to be that they're too it's not going to be that they're too expensive. The issue, and most of the expensive. The issue, and most of the expensive. The issue, and most of the commentary, the commentary act that's commentary, the commentary act that's commentary, the commentary act that's throwing their opinions into the like me throwing their opinions into the like me throwing their opinions into the like me that's throwing their opinions into the that's throwing their opinions into the that's throwing their opinions into the [ __ ] mess with this single people [ __ ] mess with this single people [ __ ] mess with this single people saying it's too expensive to have kids. saying it's too expensive to have kids. saying it's too expensive to have kids. You're not in a relationship. You're not in a relationship. You're not in a relationship. >> This is like you telling me how much >> This is like you telling me how much >> This is like you telling me how much you'd beat some guy up that stood in the you'd beat some guy up that stood in the you'd beat some guy up that stood in the ring while you're in the stands. Like ring while you're in the stands. Like ring while you're in the stands. Like you're not in the situation where you you're not in the situation where you you're not in the situation where you can talk about having kids. It it's it's can talk about having kids. It it's it's can talk about having kids. It it's it's not what you're facing. So I wonder how not what you're facing. So I wonder how not what you're facing. So I wonder how much of this, and this may be from the much of this, and this may be from the much of this, and this may be from the guy's side, too. I wonder how much of guy's side, too. I wonder how much of guy's side, too. I wonder how much of this is kids are too expensive to have this is kids are too expensive to have this is kids are too expensive to have is a much easier explanation than I is a much easier explanation than I is a much easier explanation than I can't find a partner to have them with. can't find a partner to have them with. can't find a partner to have them with. I yeah, I definitely think the financial I yeah, I definitely think the financial I yeah, I definitely think the financial reasons could be a part of it, but I I reasons could be a part of it, but I I reasons could be a part of it, but I I do think when you're speaking about do think when you're speaking about do think when you're speaking about women who are getting to an age where I women who are getting to an age where I women who are getting to an age where I I my sense is some women may not be I my sense is some women may not be I my sense is some women may not be aware that their biological window is aware that their biological window is aware that their biological window is definitive like how tight it definitive like how tight it definitive like how tight it >> Well, women's fertility drops down by >> Well, women's fertility drops down by >> Well, women's fertility drops down by half by 35 and then you know menopause half by 35 and then you know menopause half by 35 and then you know menopause starts into your 40s by mid-40s. So starts into your 40s by mid-40s. So starts into your 40s by mid-40s. So there's you can't really negotiate with there's you can't really negotiate with there's you can't really negotiate with biology at that point. I mean you can biology at that point. I mean you can biology at that point. I mean you can use the technology, you can try, use the technology, you can try, use the technology, you can try, >> but we all have our windows and it's >> but we all have our windows and it's >> but we all have our windows and it's like I said, you know, sad. like I said, you know, sad. like I said, you know, sad. >> I remember reading a tweet from [ __ ] >> I remember reading a tweet from [ __ ] >> I remember reading a tweet from [ __ ] Stefan Molyneux like six, seven years Stefan Molyneux like six, seven years Stefan Molyneux like six, seven years ago like culture waring before the ago like culture waring before the ago like culture waring before the culture war was even a thing. And he was culture war was even a thing. And he was culture war was even a thing. And he was having some pop on Taylor Swift's 30th having some pop on Taylor Swift's 30th having some pop on Taylor Swift's 30th birthday basically saying uh Taylor birthday basically saying uh Taylor birthday basically saying uh Taylor Swift turned 30 today. 90% of her eggs Swift turned 30 today. 90% of her eggs Swift turned 30 today. 90% of her eggs are gone. I wish that she'd become a are gone. I wish that she'd become a are gone. I wish that she'd become a mother. mother. mother. >> See, that type of commentary is not >> See, that type of commentary is not >> See, that type of commentary is not nice. nice. nice. >> It's not helping. And I I always had >> It's not helping. And I I always had >> It's not helping. And I I always had that in the back of my mind. Just one of that in the back of my mind. Just one of that in the back of my mind. Just one of these things. It kind of kicked up a big these things. It kind of kicked up a big these things. It kind of kicked up a big fur. And it's just a it's just a [ __ ] fur. And it's just a it's just a [ __ ] fur. And it's just a it's just a [ __ ] prick thing to say. But prick thing to say. But prick thing to say. But I did a little bit of research. The I did a little bit of research. The I did a little bit of research. The reason that 90% that 90% figure is true, reason that 90% that 90% figure is true, reason that 90% that 90% figure is true, but I didn't realize it's because girls but I didn't realize it's because girls but I didn't realize it's because girls lose their eggs before they hit puberty. lose their eggs before they hit puberty. lose their eggs before they hit puberty. I think 50% of your lifetime eggs are I think 50% of your lifetime eggs are I think 50% of your lifetime eggs are gone by the time that you become gone by the time that you become gone by the time that you become is the word fertile I get or like enable is the word fertile I get or like enable is the word fertile I get or like enable to have kids. to have kids. to have kids. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Like whatever. Your your puberty comes >> Like whatever. Your your puberty comes >> Like whatever. Your your puberty comes online and 50% of them are gone. Like online and 50% of them are gone. Like online and 50% of them are gone. Like that doesn't feel the 90% number. That that doesn't feel the 90% number. That that doesn't feel the 90% number. That feels like somebody's inflated the stock feels like somebody's inflated the stock feels like somebody's inflated the stock price or something. price or something. price or something. >> Yeah. Well, I was going to say also >> Yeah. Well, I was going to say also >> Yeah. Well, I was going to say also speaking to the fertility issues are the speaking to the fertility issues are the speaking to the fertility issues are the endocrine disruptors. Uh when a girl is endocrine disruptors. Uh when a girl is endocrine disruptors. Uh when a girl is born, she's born with all the eggs she's born, she's born with all the eggs she's born, she's born with all the eggs she's ever going to have. So if her mother was ever going to have. So if her mother was ever going to have. So if her mother was exposed to something when she was in the exposed to something when she was in the exposed to something when she was in the uterus, that's going to affect her uterus, that's going to affect her uterus, that's going to affect her daughter and her grandchildren daughter and her grandchildren daughter and her grandchildren potentially because it's affecting the potentially because it's affecting the potentially because it's affecting the eggs. eggs. eggs. >> Three generations of people, three >> Three generations of people, three >> Three generations of people, three generations of women in the same generations of women in the same generations of women in the same location for a brief period of time. location for a brief period of time. location for a brief period of time. >> Yeah. But my my hope and what I like >> Yeah. But my my hope and what I like >> Yeah. But my my hope and what I like with your podcast is that it's very much with your podcast is that it's very much with your podcast is that it's very much like balanced and I really want to try like balanced and I really want to try like balanced and I really want to try and close this division between men and and close this division between men and and close this division between men and women because I think that's a big part women because I think that's a big part women because I think that's a big part of also why this is happening with of also why this is happening with of also why this is happening with >> the adversarial narrative. >> the adversarial narrative. >> the adversarial narrative. >> Yeah. and why they're not interested in >> Yeah. and why they're not interested in >> Yeah. and why they're not interested in in having sexual relationships or being in having sexual relationships or being in having sexual relationships or being close having that that intimacy because close having that that intimacy because close having that that intimacy because so much of this discourse is so so much of this discourse is so so much of this discourse is so polarizing and so much about blaming the polarizing and so much about blaming the polarizing and so much about blaming the opposite sex for everything that's going opposite sex for everything that's going opposite sex for everything that's going wrong. Not just in terms of dating and wrong. Not just in terms of dating and wrong. Not just in terms of dating and ro relationships, but just world. ro relationships, but just world. ro relationships, but just world. >> Yep. Yeah. I mean, instead of >> Yep. Yeah. I mean, instead of >> Yep. Yeah. I mean, instead of cooperation, each sex just optimizes cooperation, each sex just optimizes cooperation, each sex just optimizes against the other. It's just this against the other. It's just this against the other. It's just this evolutionary arms race, but it's been evolutionary arms race, but it's been evolutionary arms race, but it's been turned up to everything. It's like, turned up to everything. It's like, turned up to everything. It's like, yeah, okay. There is a kind of I come up yeah, okay. There is a kind of I come up yeah, okay. There is a kind of I come up with a way to with a way to with a way to be funny or cute or attractive or be funny or cute or attractive or be funny or cute or attractive or whatever. And after a while, that whatever. And after a while, that whatever. And after a while, that strategy sort of becomes detected and strategy sort of becomes detected and strategy sort of becomes detected and then I need to demonstrate more value then I need to demonstrate more value then I need to demonstrate more value and more value and so on and so forth. and more value and so on and so forth. and more value and so on and so forth. And it's just that, but not even on And it's just that, but not even on And it's just that, but not even on steroids, like in a [ __ ] different steroids, like in a [ __ ] different steroids, like in a [ __ ] different universe. universe. universe. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Where the humans are so tribal that >> Where the humans are so tribal that >> Where the humans are so tribal that we're even splitting ourselves up based we're even splitting ourselves up based we're even splitting ourselves up based on [ __ ] sex, on [ __ ] sex, on [ __ ] sex, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> And I don't know. I Okay. Can anything >> And I don't know. I Okay. Can anything >> And I don't know. I Okay. Can anything be done top down to fix this? Give you be done top down to fix this? Give you be done top down to fix this? Give you some proposed solutions. We managed to some proposed solutions. We managed to some proposed solutions. We managed to >> I was going to say with the evolutionary >> I was going to say with the evolutionary >> I was going to say with the evolutionary co-evolutionary arms race. So that's co-evolutionary arms race. So that's co-evolutionary arms race. So that's David Bus's theory. Um David Bus's theory. Um David Bus's theory. Um >> the goat. >> the goat. >> the goat. >> Yeah. He's a friend of mine and mentor. >> Yeah. He's a friend of mine and mentor. >> Yeah. He's a friend of mine and mentor. >> Daddy David. >> Daddy David. >> Daddy David. >> And it definitely shows up. It's it's >> And it definitely shows up. It's it's >> And it definitely shows up. It's it's amazing because once you become aware of amazing because once you become aware of amazing because once you become aware of this dynamic and how men and women are this dynamic and how men and women are this dynamic and how men and women are constantly trying to out compete each constantly trying to out compete each constantly trying to out compete each other, you see it in everything. other, you see it in everything. other, you see it in everything. >> So in terms of advice, I would say for >> So in terms of advice, I would say for >> So in terms of advice, I would say for I'll start with women. I'd say I I'll start with women. I'd say I I'll start with women. I'd say I definitely think people should meet in definitely think people should meet in definitely think people should meet in real life as opposed to on apps or real life as opposed to on apps or real life as opposed to on apps or through social media, online or through social media, online or through social media, online or whatever. So my and I do think men whatever. So my and I do think men whatever. So my and I do think men should be the ones to approach women. So should be the ones to approach women. So should be the ones to approach women. So women have to make it so obvious if women have to make it so obvious if women have to make it so obvious if they're into someone and things you can they're into someone and things you can they're into someone and things you can do. I have suggestions in sex, but one do. I have suggestions in sex, but one do. I have suggestions in sex, but one big one is to smile very obviously. And big one is to smile very obviously. And big one is to smile very obviously. And if you're like me and you have resting if you're like me and you have resting if you're like me and you have resting bee face to practice smiling in the bee face to practice smiling in the bee face to practice smiling in the mirror until it's not uncomfortable and mirror until it's not uncomfortable and mirror until it's not uncomfortable and not awkward, which can take some time, not awkward, which can take some time, not awkward, which can take some time, but it I guarantee you like if you see a but it I guarantee you like if you see a but it I guarantee you like if you see a man you find attractive and you smile at man you find attractive and you smile at man you find attractive and you smile at him, he will come and talk to you. him, he will come and talk to you. him, he will come and talk to you. Hopefully Hopefully Hopefully >> cultivate receptivity. >> cultivate receptivity. >> cultivate receptivity. >> Yeah. Exactly. Because men are w >> Yeah. Exactly. Because men are w >> Yeah. Exactly. Because men are w biologically wired to pick up on these biologically wired to pick up on these biologically wired to pick up on these cues. And there's a part of the brain cues. And there's a part of the brain cues. And there's a part of the brain called the medial orbital frontal cortex called the medial orbital frontal cortex called the medial orbital frontal cortex that lights up when someone sees an that lights up when someone sees an that lights up when someone sees an attractive face and it lights up even attractive face and it lights up even attractive face and it lights up even more strongly when that face is smiling. more strongly when that face is smiling. more strongly when that face is smiling. M. M. M. >> So, I thought that was really >> So, I thought that was really >> So, I thought that was really fascinating because fascinating because fascinating because >> your resting [ __ ] face is resting your >> your resting [ __ ] face is resting your >> your resting [ __ ] face is resting your ugly face to a degree ugly face to a degree ugly face to a degree >> or it's like resting f off face. Yeah. >> or it's like resting f off face. Yeah. >> or it's like resting f off face. Yeah. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Um, and also things like touching your >> Um, and also things like touching your >> Um, and also things like touching your hair, touch your your face, your neck, hair, touch your your face, your neck, hair, touch your your face, your neck, you just your clothing, things like you just your clothing, things like you just your clothing, things like that. Men are again going to pick up on that. Men are again going to pick up on that. Men are again going to pick up on this and see this as a sign that you're this and see this as a sign that you're this and see this as a sign that you're interested. interested. interested. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> And so that will help to remedy I think >> And so that will help to remedy I think >> And so that will help to remedy I think some of the um the backlash or the some of the um the backlash or the some of the um the backlash or the difficulty after me too. And then for difficulty after me too. And then for difficulty after me too. And then for guys, oh and the other thing I would say guys, oh and the other thing I would say guys, oh and the other thing I would say to women is so basically your options to women is so basically your options to women is so basically your options are are are to compete for the high status guys, to compete for the high status guys, to compete for the high status guys, right? To date someone whom you may right? To date someone whom you may right? To date someone whom you may consider if you are say a very educated, consider if you are say a very educated, consider if you are say a very educated, successful, financially successful successful, financially successful successful, financially successful woman, you may feel like you're dating a woman, you may feel like you're dating a woman, you may feel like you're dating a guy who's less successful than you, but guy who's less successful than you, but guy who's less successful than you, but that's totally fine, right? My my issue that's totally fine, right? My my issue that's totally fine, right? My my issue is when society's telling women this is is when society's telling women this is is when society's telling women this is a great solution. Like just have a house a great solution. Like just have a house a great solution. Like just have a house husband, you know? You don't need to go husband, you know? You don't need to go husband, you know? You don't need to go for these guys. you can make your own for these guys. you can make your own for these guys. you can make your own money and you can be the provider in the money and you can be the provider in the money and you can be the provider in the in the in the in the >> in the household and no higher rates of >> in the household and no higher rates of >> in the household and no higher rates of divorce as you said. Yeah. Higher rates divorce as you said. Yeah. Higher rates divorce as you said. Yeah. Higher rates of domestic violence, higher rates of of domestic violence, higher rates of of domestic violence, higher rates of male cheating when that happens. So, male cheating when that happens. So, male cheating when that happens. So, >> you know, not to say that happens for >> you know, not to say that happens for >> you know, not to say that happens for everybody, but I think just to also have everybody, but I think just to also have everybody, but I think just to also have a bit of compassion for men who are a bit of compassion for men who are a bit of compassion for men who are struggling because my sense is women, we struggling because my sense is women, we struggling because my sense is women, we are doing very well, right? And I don't are doing very well, right? And I don't are doing very well, right? And I don't I don't think it takes anything away I don't think it takes anything away I don't think it takes anything away from women's success or women's ability from women's success or women's ability from women's success or women's ability to succeed by having some compassion for to succeed by having some compassion for to succeed by having some compassion for men who are struggling. men who are struggling. men who are struggling. >> And then I would say to guys, >> And then I would say to guys, >> And then I would say to guys, it's probably a combination in terms of it's probably a combination in terms of it's probably a combination in terms of why young men are not doing as well. I why young men are not doing as well. I why young men are not doing as well. I think the mental health aspect, eat think the mental health aspect, eat think the mental health aspect, eat healthy food. That goes for women too, healthy food. That goes for women too, healthy food. That goes for women too, but there have been studies that have but there have been studies that have but there have been studies that have shown um if you cut out ultrarocessed shown um if you cut out ultrarocessed shown um if you cut out ultrarocessed food, depression will remit on its own. food, depression will remit on its own. food, depression will remit on its own. There was one study I remember reading, There was one study I remember reading, There was one study I remember reading, it was crazy. Within 12 weeks, a third it was crazy. Within 12 weeks, a third it was crazy. Within 12 weeks, a third of the sample that had depression gez, of the sample that had depression gez, of the sample that had depression gez, >> had it go into remission on it own. >> had it go into remission on it own. >> had it go into remission on it own. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Yeah. So, if you're struggling like with >> Yeah. So, if you're struggling like with >> Yeah. So, if you're struggling like with your mental health, or I guess I should your mental health, or I guess I should your mental health, or I guess I should talk to the camera when I say this, but talk to the camera when I say this, but talk to the camera when I say this, but if you're if you're struggling with your if you're if you're struggling with your if you're if you're struggling with your mental health, eat healthy food, go to mental health, eat healthy food, go to mental health, eat healthy food, go to the gym. I'm sure Chris's audience the gym. I'm sure Chris's audience the gym. I'm sure Chris's audience knows. Work out, get sunshine, and knows. Work out, get sunshine, and knows. Work out, get sunshine, and um I would also say if you can go um I would also say if you can go um I would also say if you can go without porn for 30 days, try and see if without porn for 30 days, try and see if without porn for 30 days, try and see if that helps you. You might be surprised that helps you. You might be surprised that helps you. You might be surprised at your motivation. I did not expect at your motivation. I did not expect at your motivation. I did not expect that you were going to be a proponent that you were going to be a proponent that you were going to be a proponent for nofap. for nofap. for nofap. >> Well, I hear from so many guys that it's >> Well, I hear from so many guys that it's >> Well, I hear from so many guys that it's helped them. So, I'm willing I'm willing helped them. So, I'm willing I'm willing helped them. So, I'm willing I'm willing to go there. I'm curious. Let me know to go there. I'm curious. Let me know to go there. I'm curious. Let me know how it goes. Okay. As a woman, tell me how it goes. Okay. As a woman, tell me how it goes. Okay. As a woman, tell me how it goes. how it goes. how it goes. >> Every single day, report in on how your >> Every single day, report in on how your >> Every single day, report in on how your nofap is going with an update. nofap is going with an update. nofap is going with an update. >> Detailed notes. I want an Excel >> Detailed notes. I want an Excel >> Detailed notes. I want an Excel spreadsheet. Yeah, spreadsheet. Yeah, spreadsheet. Yeah, >> I'm sure that that will appreciate >> I'm sure that that will appreciate >> I'm sure that that will appreciate that'll go well. Uh Deborah, you're that'll go well. Uh Deborah, you're that'll go well. Uh Deborah, you're great. I really appreciate you. Uh where great. I really appreciate you. Uh where great. I really appreciate you. Uh where should people go to check out everything should people go to check out everything should people go to check out everything you're doing? you're doing? you're doing? >> So, you can get Should I talk to the >> So, you can get Should I talk to the >> So, you can get Should I talk to the camera or should I tell you? camera or should I tell you? camera or should I tell you? >> Talk to me. >> Talk to me. >> Talk to me. >> Okay. You should get Sexinction: The >> Okay. You should get Sexinction: The >> Okay. You should get Sexinction: The Decline of Sex and the Future of Decline of Sex and the Future of Decline of Sex and the Future of Intimacy. You can get it on Simon and Intimacy. You can get it on Simon and Intimacy. You can get it on Simon and Schustster's website. You can get it Schustster's website. You can get it Schustster's website. You can get it everywhere you get books. You can get it everywhere you get books. You can get it everywhere you get books. You can get it at draso.com. And the audio book is read at draso.com. And the audio book is read at draso.com. And the audio book is read by me. And you can get it for free on by me. And you can get it for free on by me. And you can get it for free on Audible. Audible. Audible. >> Sounds awesome. I I think you're doing >> Sounds awesome. I I think you're doing >> Sounds awesome. I I think you're doing uh the goddess's work. Uh really, really uh the goddess's work. Uh really, really uh the goddess's work. Uh really, really cool. Really, really awesome stuff. I cool. Really, really awesome stuff. I cool. Really, really awesome stuff. I appreciate you. appreciate you. appreciate you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much for tuning in. >> Thank you very much for tuning in. >> Thank you very much for tuning in. Congratulations for making it to the end Congratulations for making it to the end Congratulations for making it to the end of an entire episode. Uh, another one of an entire episode. Uh, another one of an entire episode. Uh, another one that I think you'll enjoy is right here.