Why Doing Cardio Is A Waste Of Time | Mind Pump 2809

Key Takeaway

Cardio can be effective for fat loss for about 2-3 weeks, then your body adapts and it becomes counterproductive. After 4 weeks, it often leads to muscle loss rather than fat loss. Instead, prioritize strength training to preserve muscle during calorie deficits, and save cardio for when you're close to your aesthetic goals or want to build endurance. The body is an adaptation machine - give it the right signals with resistance training, not just calorie-burning cardio.

Episode Overview

This episode challenges the conventional wisdom about cardio for fat loss. The hosts explain why traditional steady-state cardio becomes ineffective after just a few weeks as your body adapts by becoming more efficient and breaking down muscle tissue. They discuss the metabolic adaptations that occur with prolonged cardio, share real-world examples from trainers and competitors, and explain why strength training is superior for fat loss. The conversation covers how to properly sequence different training modalities, the importance of understanding exercise adaptations versus just calorie burn, and why many people plateau despite doing hours of cardio weekly.

Full Transcript

Transcript of Why Doing Cardio Is A Waste Of Time | Mind Pump 2809 from Mind Pump Show. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

Cardio can be great for fat loss for about two to three weeks. After four weeks, absolute waste of time. What do you think? I I mean I strongly agree. Uh I the body adapts really quickly to energy energy expenditure in that way about 3 to four weeks. Yeah, that's what the data shows, right? And it takes so 8 to 12 you get benefits of stamina training. So when we look at it for if you want to endurance train and get better like that makes that's your form of training.

That makes sense. But most people are using it uh as a source to reduce body fat. And if that's the main goal, you get great benefits for about 2 to 3 weeks. After that, it sharply declines and becomes almost a waste of time and can be counterproductive. Yeah. Well, you know what? You're going to get a lot of people right now who are like, "Well, I lost tons of weight uh by doing lots of running." Um, now usually this is in combination with cutting their calories, but what they don't realize, and we've talked about this at least a thousand times, uh, is that form of exercise with a reduction in calories is a recipe for muscle loss.

That's right. That's right. That's right. It really is. Now, people might ask, why why does cardio or running plus a calorie deficit, low, why does that cause muscle loss? Is it that you're burning the muscle while you're doing all this exercise? No, that's not what's happening. Um, it's actually quite hard to burn muscle in that way. What's happening is the body has because cardio does burn a lot of calories. So, this is where the this is where people start the debate, debate, debate, especially at the beginning.

Yes. But it it I mean, comparison to other forms of exercise, it's the highest calorie burn. But what happens when you're burning lots of calories and you're cutting your calories and the form of exercise that you're doing is not telling your body we need strength and muscle. The body learns how to reduce its caloric output. Needs to be more efficient and and so it pairs muscle down. So it's like 40% uh of your of your body weight loss is muscle, which sucks. You lost 10 pounds, four of it uh was muscle.

And now you're left with a, you know, for lack of a better term, slower metabolism, which makes things a little hard. hard. hard. People disregard that we're adaptation machines where your body's going to adjust uh to that type of a stimulus, especially cardio, uh those type of demands. Like we it it like if we're just like depriving ourselves of this energy, like the first signal really is to like hold on to that energy and and not expend it so uh frivolously. So, it's it's if you think of that in that lens, it kind of makes sense why at a certain point you kind of hit that hard plateau.

This is how I I would tell competitors if they if you had a good coach or not. Um it's so common in the space that these competitive coaches put their athletes, their competitors on cardio 12 weeks out from a show. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I would tell them that's that's a terrible strategy. We are far better off uh manipulating it with calories and just regular activity like movement walking around until we get to those final couple weeks where we would start to ramp up the cardio just before and then and then it's so new.

It's a new stimulus to the body that it responds really well for those two to three weeks. Then after that, to your point, it it gets it adapts. It gets becomes efficient and then stamina building happens. But part of part of what's happening when you start to build stamina, endurance, and you get good at it is the body's becoming more efficient at it, which is saying, "Hey, we don't need all this muscle to do all this running that the body's asking us to do. Let's get rid of some of this muscle because it's not efficient to have." By the way, just to be clear before anybody gets up in arms, like uh it's a form of exercise done properly, it's healthy.

So, we're not saying it's not healthy. We're not saying it's not a good form of exercise if you want to improve stamina and endurance. We're not saying don't ever do cardio. What we're talking about here is fat loss. And it's a terrible strategy. By the way, the there are great studies that compare strength training to cardio for weight loss. Weight loss, cardio wins. Fat loss, strength training wins. What do I mean by that? Cardio in a weight loss protocol or a fat loss protocol induces muscle loss.

It does enhance, it actually creates more muscle loss uh almost like or maybe even worse than just a pure calorie deficit. Whereas strength training uh preserves muscle and in some cases uh if the calorie deficit is not too big um and you have high protein you you'll see some muscle building uh through this process. So for a as far as fat loss is concerned it's really a terrible approach. Now if you use cardio as a way to improve your health and you want more endurance or more stamina great go for it.

But if your number one goal is like I want to lose body fat uh you're better off doing other forms of exercise in particular strength training. Um and then the and then and then the diet. This is why I always like to introduce normal person, not just talking about competitors. Uh introduce cardio after my client has achieved their aesthetic goal. goal. goal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So if a client came to me and they had a bunch of body fat they wanted to lose, cardio was not a part of the protocol until we got closer to basically where they wanted to be.

And then it would be to either one sharpen up a tiny bit or because they're like, "Hey, I want more endurance, more stamina. I've now reduced that body fat. I'm now at a place where I feel healthy and balanced. Now I want to improve that. It's great. Now let's bump your calories and let's introduce cardio. So now you're more fed and you get to build some stamina and you have the body you want. It's not something that I would use as a tool just to get the body fat off.

It's a terrible strategy to do that because now if I did it that way, by the way, too, and let's say you did have success, which is what happens to a lot of some of these competitors that do two hours of it every single day to get rid of that. And and not only that, but now in order to maintain that that body that they've now achieved, they've got to maintain the two hours of cardio every single day, which is unrealistic and they're not going to do, which is why there's this massive rebound afterwards and they put on because they stop doing that instantly and then there's huge difference in in calorie burn.

And so this is such a terrible strategy and yet everybody seems to do it even at the competitive level and it really should. In fact, there's been competitors that we never did cardio that we got all the way down to stage presence like body fat percentage and never had to get on the elliptical and sweat or the stairmaster and sweat like crazy. We did it just through managing steps and calorie reduction or through even better building your metabolism up, building a ton of muscle first and then coming down.

coming down. coming down. It's so funny. So earlier today, uh, we had a caller on that had done in the past five iron man competitions and a bunch of half iron mans. And for people that aren't familiar, an Iron Man competition is insane. It's like a 2 and a half mile almost grueling swim. It'sund I think 112 mile bike ride and then you run a marathon. That's the whole competition. So a marathon by itself, what is it? 26 miles. You do that at the end of all the other crazy stuff.

So it's just insane. So lots of it's crazy endurance training. I've had a few Iron Man competitors uh as clients and if I remember correctly, so these were one of them was a man. He weighed about 165 pounds. Kind of your typical, you know, what you would consider your ideal Iron Man uh physique. Okay? He was consuming with all the training. Now, you're talking about, you know, tens of miles of running and swimming. This guy was, you know, two to three hours every single day, sometimes more, of exercise to prepare for this intense, crazy competition.

This guy was eating about 3,500 calories a day to fuel his body. So, this is 165 lb man, 3,500 calories a day in order to fuel this uh this type of training. And his body fat was relatively lean. He was fit. He was probably walking around 10 11% body fat. He was doing everything right. We did a little bit of strength training just kind of support uh what he was doing. I'm 220 lb guy, so I have a lot more lean body mass. Same body fat.

My activity level is one probably 100th of his. I if I strength train, it's three or four days a week, 45 minutes. I don't do any of that other stuff. We're sitting down 90% of the day in the studio and I eat probably 500 more calories a day than he does. Just give you an idea of the difference there. Now, of course, there's genetic variants, all that stuff, but that's a lot of activity. He should be burning, if you did the math, insane amounts of calories through that activity.

The body learned and your body will learn how to become efficient with calories if you're asking your body to become efficient with calories simultaneously asking it telling it we don't need a lot of muscle. Well, that that caller we just that we had was eating 2500 calories to maintain where he was at and very very active, high training volume, all the things. Another way to show this example is this s and show you how different you how much you can manipulate your metabolism is uh Michael Phelps 10,000 calories, 10,000 calories, 10,000 calories, you know.

So you you have this like the body is unbelievably efficient and if you if you don't give it a lot of calories and you do all this crazy activity, it will it will learn and it will adapt to that. But you could also get away with feeding it unbelievably when you have somebody like that that's doing that much activity. So how can people be that far off from each other? Well, that's just an example of like how crazy adaptive the the metabolism is is that if you continue to put it in a deficit and you push the body more and more and more and trying to burn your way down, eventually it completely slows down.

It's always a terrible strategy. Make it really clear the best way to view exercise is what kind of physical adaptation does this exercise induce? And that's when I'll use the exercise. What's it best for? What's that specific exercise best for? Yes. And then diet you should look at for health fueling and then manipulate your diet for fat loss uh or muscle gain. Okay, so that's what you do. Now, can you look at exercise through the lens of fat loss? Well, you can because when you look at your diet and you're eating in a way to lose body fat, which means you're in what's called a calorie deficit.

You're eating less calories than you're burning. Well, the form of exercise I should pick if my goal is aesthetic, if my goal is primarily aesthetic, I want to lose body fat. Well, I'm going to try and pick the form of exercise that's going to mitigate or block or stop or reverse whatever negative effects a calorie deficit can cause. Well, what's one of the negative effects of a calorie deficit? Muscle loss. loss. loss. Consistent. Consistent. You go in a calorie deficit, you will lose weight. A significant amount of that weight will be muscle loss.

It happens across the board. So, which form of exercise should I pick? The one that's going to build endurance and stamina. The one that's going to build, let's say, flexibility. The one that's going to build strength. Uh that's the one right there, the strengthbuilding form of exercise because it directly counters what happens with the calorie deficit. And again, this is why you see in the studies for pure fat loss uh as a percentage of body weight loss, especially strength training is superior and why cardio should not even be when clients would come to me and I'd work with them if they're if they told me specifically, look, uh and they're not working out at all.

I want to get healthier. Cool. Okay, check. What else you want? Fat loss. check. Uh this is what we're going to do. We're going to start with strength training. Why? Well, because strength training is going to give you some stamina. It's if you're seditary now, it's going to give you some stamina and endurance. It's going to improve your health. It's going to do those things and it's going to help with the fat loss. Now, if a client came to me and says, I I want to go play basketball.

I want to swim. I want to run. Like, I need that kind of stamina. Cardio is going to be a part of uh their protocol. Strength training will still be a part of the protocol, but cardio now is a part of the protocol. I don't look at it for fat loss. There's a lot of indirect benefits, you know, the cardio as well as like, you know, especially if we're talking about fat loss, like for the endurance component to kind of re uh visit like some of your workouts and have that uh bit of stamina to go through, you know, and so it's like it's not something that you totally eliminate per se, but if you're trying to like be specific and like this is your targeted goal of, you know, fat loss is the most uh objectively that's that's what I'm seeking the most, like it's not going to be your best tool for the tool.

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Go to mapsmar.com. mapsmar.com. mapsmar.com. Here comes the show. So we we get confusion even from this podcast even though we've been saying this forever when it's somebody who says I want both. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because then there that's where they feel like they're lost. Well, I don't just care about aesthetics. I also want endurance and want that. But the the answer to that is still focus on the aesthetic first and then we can go build the stamina. Like you're far better off doing that than trying to do both of them at the same time.

You'd be it'd be far more because to your point while we're lifting weights and building muscle, you're going to get some stamina. some stamina. some stamina. If you're sedentary right now, just strength training is going to give you uh the stamina endurance. That's right. It's going to give you some of that and it's going to start to build the metabolism and it's going to get the body fat off and like so it's going to benefit you in that. And then after you're in that position where you're like, "Okay, I've gotten to a place where I'm happy.

Now let's go after more endurance and more stamina." You're way better off then saying, "How do I do both at the same time?" Doing both at the same time. You're going to be robbing Peter to pay Paul all the time. time. time. The problem I think the big problem I've said this uh um a lot in the past. The big issue is that people look at at fat loss as just a math problem. This way they view it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Calories in versus calories out which that's true.

Okay. That there's a truess there deficit there deficit there deficit but it's not explaining uh how that works. It's not breaking down the nuances and how the human metabolism work and how hormones affect all that stuff. But yes, it is true that that math problem is a part of it. Now, here's where it gets messed up. Uh, all right, if it's calories in versus calories out, well, the form of exercise I'm going to pick is the one that increases the calorie burn the most. So, that should be the best one.

But that's not the full story because yes, running for, look here, running for 45 minutes will burn probably three times as many calories as lift as traditional strength training will for 45 minutes. It's true, but we're taking out the adaptation piece. like what does that exercise induce as far as adaptation is induce as far as adaptation is concerned with the body? When you consider that, well, the picture becomes much more clear. It's not just about how many calories you burn. It's about the adaptations. Does that help me burn more calories later on on my own?

Does that cause me to have to continue doing the activity in order to burn the calories or is my body figuring it out? And does it solve the muscle loss problem? Is it going to fix the pro the muscle loss problem that that's caused by a calorie deficit? When you consider all of those things, the picture gets much much more clear. But if it's just calories in versus calories out, let's just burn more calories, you're going to end up in a terrible plateau, which is what happens to a lot of people where, you know, they want to lose 30 lbs, so they just burn a lot of calories on a treadmill.

Uh they cut their calories, they get 15 lbs off, then they hit this really hard plateau. By the way, the 15 lbs include 7 lbs of muscle. Then they're in this really hard plateau, and then they're left like this. And I know, listen, if you're listening, and this this has probably happened to a significant percentage of people listening right now who've tried to lose weight in the past. You hit this plateau and then you're here, okay, uh, I guess I got to work out more and I got to eat less, but I'm already working out a lot.

My schedule's kind of crazy. I'm doing four days a week of running or whatever. My calories are already low. I already don't like my diet. I'm already hungry. Uh, I guess to lose the next 15 pounds, I got to increase my activity, drop my calories some more. And some of you, uh, because you're really disciplined, hardworking, you go, "All right, let's go for it." And you do it. And then you drop another seven lbs, another 3 lbs of that is muscle. Now you're left with whatever, you know, you're down maybe nine more pounds of body fat to lose.

But now you're in this place like, "This sucks. Yeah, sucks. Yeah, sucks. Yeah, I hate this. I'm doing all this work. I'm eating salads and chicken breast and, you know, white rice and I don't and I feel I still don't feel like I look the way I should with all this work with and all this like restriction with my diet to hell with it. I want to enjoy my life. my life. my life. Any any logical person ends up saying, I would rather I I'm already not happy with where I'm at.

I'm doing all this [ __ ] This I'd rather be eating what I wanted, being lazy, and feeling a little bit fluffier the other way. So, it's such an extreme difference. It's uh you know I I blame our space. Oh, totally. Oh, totally. Oh, totally. I mean we uh the uh you know wellness hippie- dippy side petted against the heavy science side that wants to just tout law thermodynamics. I mean and so you've got and you have the consumer who's like that feels like they have to identify with one or the other.

Either I totally identify with the the wellness hippie- dippy person and that's more me or I'm super science guy. It's law of thermodynamics and so it's definitely just calories in calories out. That's what matters. And it's like, meanwhile, a lot of people are like, none of this is working. That's right. That's right. That's right. I, you know, I remember when I first was working in gyms. So, I started working in gyms at 18 like you guys. We were all young when we started working in gyms.

And when you work in a gym and you love it, you're there all day long. And so, if you're there long enough, you know, after 6 months, uh, you see your regulars, okay? You recognize your regular members. And I remember, you know, I'm in the gym. I'm in there all the time. When I was first started, man, I loved it so much. which I was there literally 8:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. 6 or 7 days a week. I'm always in there. And I would I would see these regulars that would come in.

They check themselves in. I knew their names. Hi, how you doing? They go get changed, come out, and they'd hop on the stairmaster and they'd be there for an hour. And they would be there all the time. And after I was there after a year, I'd see the same and they looked no different. different. different. No different. They'd look they'd look exactly and what I mean by looking the same is they were probably 20 to 25 pounds overweight, sweating their butts off on these on these.

Such a mystery for me when I was a young trainer. Yeah, it was the other one, which I think is even was even more of a mystery to me, which blew my mind, were the group X instructors who taught four or five classes a day, were drenched in sweat and were just and they looked out of shape and you're like, there's no way she would bury me in that class. Like, I know she's working out like and and you think, God, she must eat terrible. terrible.

terrible. That's what I thought. Yeah. She must she must go right out of here right to Burger King and just like hammer food. So, you know what I used to do? It wasn't that. So what I used to do is cuz that's what I thought. I remember when I first trained when I first got my first group back instructor when I was an early trainer I thought man those members must eat the worst diets ever. But then you get to know them, you talk to them and I talked to one guy and you know they knew I was a trainer and then a fitness manager and so I was talking diet and the first guy's telling me what he's eating and you know what I'm thinking?

Lie. Lies. There's no way that's what you're eating. There's no way. Underestimating. Underestimating. Underestimating. And then I talked to another one. Same thing. Lies. By the fourth or fifth one, I was like, "Are they all lying to me? This can't be right. This doesn't make any sense." Meanwhile, I'm a trainer, personal training people, and I'm focused on strength training mainly because at the time because as a trainer, what a waste of time to have to have a cardio have a client do cardio while I'm watching.

I know. I was like, get them strong at least. least. least. So, so you strength training, let me take you out in the gym and do and I'm watching my clients get leaner, get more fit, they're eating more than the people in the cardio. And then I started to piece this together. Uh oh, maybe it's the form of exercise. And same thing with my group X instructor for them. But yeah, it it's so funny because you look back at that, I was so confused by like when is this working like cuz two to your other points of like the the whole math problem.

It's like calories, you know. So you start looking at things that burn and so you look at and then we used to like track it and you're like okay whatever it's telling me on the cardio equipment like you could see it you know this is actually burning whatever 250 calories or some like arbitrary number that's probably not even close to being accurate and then you look it up and then you you and then you look it up and then you look at this I forget whatever book it was it would start like highlighting each exercise what you actually burn from weight training and it wasn't even close and so you start leaning more towards like the cardio to handle fat to then build them up in the strength once you get the fat off.

I know it was wild. This is how this is why the stair master got so popular because of the calorie burn burn burn cuz on the machine itself it gave you the highest number. Yeah. Yeah. And people get drenched in sweat sweat sweat which by the way people need to know this. this. this. Cardio manufacturers would change the number once they realized that people would pick the cardio that showed the highest calorie burn cuz nobody checks nobody care. It's not like a scientist come in actually elliptical is burning.

It's you just put it up there. So they would literally cardio manufacturers would make sure that their machines showed higher calorie burn because they knew that more people would use it. Yeah. Yeah. Is it correct? Did you hear the um Did you hear the clip or did you listen to the clip the Dorian Yates? Dorian Yates? Dorian Yates? Oh, where he was talking to Hubberman? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I watched some of that. Did you watch the Did you watch when he talked about how he does his uh his cardio?

No. cardio? No. cardio? No. 6 minutes? 6 minutes? 6 minutes? No. No. No. Oh, I wish you would have watched that. I wanted I wanted I wanted No, I didn't see that one. That's why I sent it to you guy. Well, you know why? Cuz I saw so many clips. clips. clips. It was only a minute and a half. He had listen. listen. listen. It's too long. He tal he talked Maybe Doug could pull it up because it's literally only a minute and a half for us to listen to because I I was super intrigued by this.

Uh and there's and I guess there is a uh they call it they call it um uh one I think yeah one yeah one minute of cardio and it is uh three bouts of all out 20 seconds. So it ends up being a it's called one minute cardio, but it's six total minutes and it's basically three. So it's interval essential. It's three 20 second all outs. And he breaks down like the benefits and this research to to compare it to like an hour worth of cardio and the amount of calorie burn and benefits and everything that you get.

And it's and I believe it it's it's it's called and called and called and so I'm not familiar with that specifically, but I am familiar with the data around that form of cardio. Yeah, I'm familiar with like the the data around HIT cardio. We've talked about this before. I'm familiar. I didn't even I've never heard of this and I heard Dorian Yates talking about with Hummer. It's it's got huge uh V2 max benefits, health benefits, uh stamina benefits. Here's the problem, though. Uh if you take most everyday people and you have them sprint all out for 20 seconds, it's inappropriate for them.

It's just a fact, you guys. Well, he's he's he's he he's actually pitching it on the um on the what your your thing you like the elliptical. the elliptical. the elliptical. No, no, no. No, no. What you really like the your the your the your salt bike? salt bike? salt bike? Assault bike. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. It's Yeah. I don't think it's inappropriate because of the technique would make sense. I think it's inappropriate. Did you find it, Doug, for me? Yeah. I found a clip. Oh, I have it.

You don't have it. So, okay. okay. okay. Anyway, play it because I want I want Sal to hear it and so it see it? Yeah, we're gonna play it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll I'll play the one you sent. Yeah. And you can just clip it in, Dylan. Yeah. I just thought, you know, um I what made me want to go listen to the whole interview so I could hear Hubman and him go back and forth uh on it. Um but I what caught my attention was, you know, comparing it to like a whole hour of cardio I thought was really fascinating and and done on uh on that bike.

For your point, risk versus reward. reward. reward. No, it's not the technique that I'm worried about. It's it's uh it's literally the exertion. Some people it's just just just Well, the average Well, yeah. He's like the watch. Let's uh here it goes. My favorite because it engages every muscle. Push, pull, legs. If you do a 20 second all out, you got on the side of the thing, you can see how much watts you're generating. So now you have a target to hit or exceed every time.

So do a minute, minute and a half warm-up, whatever. Feel warm. All out. Balls out like the devil's chasing you for 20 seconds. First one's tough, but it's okay. Go down slowly for a minute. Do the second one all out. Second one's really tough. Yeah. The third one is I've never met anybody that wants to do one after the third one because literally you can't breathe. And the benefits from that again I think there's a book called the one minute cardio. It's a bit tricky cuz it's not really one minute.

It's 1 minute of sprints but it's 6 minutes in total. And they compared that to 45 minutes of steady cardio on a treadmill or whatever it is. And the results are more or less the same. same. same. So So it's 45 minutes. I thought I was 60, but still but still I So yes, but uh think of the typical client, the average 40ome year old that comes in to train with our trainers and have them go all out 20 seconds. No, it not it's going to it's not going to be be be So I again uh I found someone's fit really fit health.

Yeah, I found this more interesting for us. us. us. Yes. Yes. Yes. So Oh, that's totally Yeah. My average client um I'm we're all huge fans of steps and lists, right? like getting them on there for 45 minutes just just the movement of that I think there's lots of benefits just moving also moving also moving also recuperative yeah that's what I mean the the benefits of moving the body for 45 minutes uh but coming from this I'm like oh this is an interesting uh strategy and I've actually never heard you know what's funny about that I was doing that just kind of intuitively anyways just well it's basically hit training from how he's describing it I might have gone a little longer than that but you know just because the assault bike it isn't as like impact.

So, it's not like quite as But yeah, your average person doesn't even know how to move fast yet, but you have to get all the pre here's the other thing too that for for a lot of people, I'm one of these these these cuz I know the way they're selling it. 6 minutes versus 45 minutes, right? Oh my god, I'd much rather do six. I wouldn't I'd much rather do 45 minutes and and listen to something and go, you tell me to do something like that, I got to cycle.

And there's to your point there's a there's a lot of recuperative benefits to moving the body for I mean one of my favorite things to walk when I walk 45 minutes is is postmeal and so I'm getting the digestive benefits. I'm getting the meditative benefits. I'm it's relaxing to actually do that. Like so there's there's a calming part that and I and I you know to the conversation that we just had I feel like getting people to de-stress and calm down that is definitely not the strategy for that.

Uh thought it was interesting. Um, I still don't think that changes would ever change my recommendation for but for fit healthy people it could be something interesting. I know Justin would love that because he loves he's got two gears. Yeah. All out or stop. That's probably why I was inclined to do that. Yeah. That are like jump ropes like punching and kicking stuff. How can I do cardio angrily? Everything angry. Yeah. But then like Yeah. Even as I get older now, it's like in that conversation we just had talking about like the amount of time throughout your day you should be impasympathetic.

And think about that like just the the the little stuff that you don't think is like compounding on the stress you already have like just just looking at your phone and you know carrying that all day long. You're really not in good parasympathetic state unless you're intentionally doing it. I can't wait for the audience to hear that interview that we just did. I thought that was a really fun Yeah, that one got me a bit good conversation. um you know from a doctor from both sides, right?

So um really cool to hear and and and and just validate too what we communicate a lot to the people that call into this show. Yeah. And we get a lot of flak uh from our space um normally from young naive trainers uh that think they're really smart. Uh oh, these guys are always telling people do less, do less. And you know that comes from weak. It's lack of experience. experience. experience. Bunch of boomers. Get your canes out. Scott Scott Scott's uh he's a doctor. Uh he's a licensed physician, but he also works uh in preventative and he works with a lot of people.

And if you're a trainer and you've been training people for a decade and you worked with a lot of people, you're going to sound like us. That's you have that experience. Uh but if you're young and you're new and you just became a trainer and you're just reading the science and you just trained yourself and you're 23 years old or whatever, yeah, you're going to be like, "No, get after it. That's what you got to do cuz that's what works." Yeah. And it's like that's not how it really works in the real Dorian Yates is I love Dorian and I all respect I mean he's a character dude.

He's one of my I grew up in the '9s uh when and that's when I was into bodybuilding and he was Mr. Olympia and he's awesome. He but he communicates strength training from his lens and he's he does a good job and it's hard to argue against the guy that won Mr. Olympia, you know, that many times. But he he argues it from that lens and and basically says anything around volume with training, anything around frequent, like it's all garbage. It's only intensity. And uh I mean I'd hate to tell him to his face cuz he like I won Mr.

Olympia. What about you? But it's that just it just that's not uh that's not the truth. That's not the real truth. There's some value in what he says, he says, he says, but that's not the full story. It's a small it's a small like that's again I that was interesting to me for me. Yeah. me. Yeah. me. Yeah. Like I thought that was an interesting like like like Did you hear Dorian talk crap about Israel? Israel? Israel? No. No. No. So Mike Israel somebody so somebody asked Israel about uh Mike Mener and about his method of training and so the way that Israel countered it.

He was trying to be funny is he's like he did a little science right and then because Mike Mener is like the originator one of the the bodybuilders that popularized that style of training where it's like one set all out heavy duty, right? That's it and you're done. And so he's like, "And I look way better than Mike Mener." And he got blasted for that. So everyone's like, "You look like a like a fat piece of crap compared to Mike Mener." And Dorian just roasted. Like if you're going to debate a bodybuilder about science, what you don't bring up is if you look that you look bad because that's why they're pro bodybuilders that, you know, so that's like you're going to lose the argument, bro, how good your science is.

I got I got to find Was it on that interview or was a different one? Yeah, dude. I think it was that one. Uh, but I heard him in some other interviews where he's funny. Yeah, he's talking. You said you think that Huberman worked with him. Is that true? Do you know? I believe Huberman Dorian trained Huberman for a couple sessions or something like that. So, they have a relationship like your dream. If I I would I mean, I just want to hang out with him.

That's why I don't think because he's going to teach you so much about fitness. fitness. fitness. You know, that's a good question. Is there anybody at this stage of our life? Hell no. Hell no. Hell no. There's nobody you would like you you would want to like to work out with somebody. Much as I want someone telling me what to [ __ ] off. Are you kidding me? There's I don't even want to work out with you much much less you tell me what I need to do.

Stop it. Stop it. Stop it. Isn't that funny? Well, I mean that's the first thing like people want to do. You're like there's no like athlete. There's nobody there's nobody. Okay. Okay. Unless there is Okay. Unless you were like okay you you you admitted your stuff that you're you're going through right now. Like uh I could see you hiring uh me or somebody not because I'm going to teach you something but because for the for the for the you're going to make me do what I want.

Yeah. Right. the psychological accountability. accountability. accountability. You know him best, right? It's like that kind of thing. It's like I know exactly where I won't. Yeah. Exactly. And it's not because I'm going to teach you anything, right? Or or even tell you, but I I I would tell you what you know you already need to do. I think so. I think that would be the only reason why I would see. But you know what I mean? There's no like celebrity like bodybuilder athlete that you'd be like, "Not really." Huh.

No, I can't think of it. Yeah. And it's not because I know more than the person. I don't care. I tell you what. I tell you what, maybe have a conversation. Maybe maybe so I think of like a conversation like Scott who we just had with like he's not gonna teach me anything in the weight room. No. But having him like break down your health. Yeah. Yeah. Like like in between sets he's like just Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Educating me on like uh like you know take this today cuz you're going to go fly and do this and then tomorrow like I I could geek out on that.

that. that. Do you guys want to know what my who my my wife told me I should hire to train me? Karen. me? Karen. me? Karen. Oh wow. Oh wow. Oh wow. She's like you should hire Karen. I'm like what? She's like, "Yeah, she's going through directly." And she would tell you and she knows that that you would be the worst person. I get we get in a fight, dude. What would happen, bro? You would leave and and be so frustrated with uh No, I would.

Yeah, you would. You can frustrate me anyway. anyway. anyway. Let alone try to train me, dude. I don't know. I feel like I might be a little volatile. I don't just was an outsider. outsider. outsider. I feel like you would I feel like I I feel like Karen would be too nice and sweet. Like you need someone to Which is why I would do what she says cuz I would Yeah, cuz I I know I could dominate. dominate. dominate. I will rebel, dude. When she leaves, I go do something else.

I do that client. No, I don't do any extra exercise. That's not what she's You sure look like you're punk to me. Yeah, I know, dude. Hey, you guys. Yes. So, they just dropped the Okay, so reat try. Reatide. try. Reatide. try. Reatide. Oh, is it out officially? Oh, okay. You guys know this is a GLP3. Okay, so the builds muscle and the f well so the first GLP drugs were what called GLP1s. Okay, so they act on one one one one receptor. I'm not going to get into science mainly because I don't understand it.

Then there's the GLP2s. So you have some glutide is a GLP1. Tzepide is a GLP2. In the studies, tzepide causes more weight loss. So So So and less muscle loss and less muscle loss. So then these the companies are like well can we hit more recess can we hit more recess. So red true tide is a you can only get it as a research chemical right now. I don't recommend you do that. You don't know what you're getting but uh it's in the studies and then there's lots of bodybuilders and people we know of course of course of course who've used it but they've come out with the trials and you want to know what's crazy about these trials.

This is humans and not just rats. This is human trials. So you get phase two trials. In fact, I think I saved some of the the an article on it. Dude, it's uh it's actually a commercial for uh for Reddit a true time. So, if it's in phase two, s what's realistic when it when when you can get it through a real pharmacy, how how far out out out it Well, they've got a prediction on they've got they still have to go through phase No, it's actually phase three.

Sorry. It was a phase three trial. So depending on how the the FDA views these trials, it'll it'll if it passes, then it can become a drug. It can be something that we can now um ompic mjaro. Are they all still on GLP1 or have they actually got some and tepatide are the the the chemical names. I don't know what the brand I know is someide. I think Mjaro's turppide if I'm not mistaken. No, look that up cuz I don't I don't know if they've jumped to trespide yet.

No, No, No, some have. Have they? Yeah, I don't know. No, no, no. I know. I know. You can get those. No, no. Actually, a big brand. Okay. That's what I'm wondering. I want cuz cuz last I I knew OMIC was still messing with semiglutide. No. Yeah. Seaglutide is that's the first one. That's the first one. Okay. So, Reddit True Tide uh came out uh and they're doing research on it and it's called and again it's a GLP3 and phase two trials are crazy. Phase three trials come out.

Bro, say just trip off this. Okay. A significant percentage of the people dropped out of the study. So these are participants. What do What do What do you mean dropped out? Why? Why they quit? This and this is one of the things of a trial. Will people drop out because of side effects or because of Do you want to know why? Okay. Eight. So a significant percentage dropped out because you ready for this? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Excessive weight loss. They were losing too much weight. That's like a commercial.

Like that's in a cell. a cell. a cell. That's crazy. That's crazy. That's crazy. Yes. because it caused such a crazy amount of weight loss. Now the bodybuilders and the people I know who take reatride they're like comparing it to trespatus they're like it's it's Godzilla in comparison it's so effective. So I have a friend who did a bodybuilding competition went on retreat tide. What does that say right there? Yeah. So Zepbound and Monero or Tzepide. Okay. So that means Ozep is still using the original one.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So So So and overdosing. and overdosing. and overdosing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, what I think they're going to do is mess with the doses, maybe lower the dose because it's so so powerful or whatever. But I have a buddy who did a bodybuilding competition. He did read a true tide and he's like, "Dude," he go, "And now, by the way, you're talking about pro bodybuilding. These guys are insane with how low the calories get, the cardio, it's just insane. They're they're hitting stage shredded.

It's not healthy." He's like, "Dude," he goes, uh, you know, he's this guy's done a lot of competition. I'm not going to say too much because everyone will know who it is, but he's like, "Bro," he goes, he goes, "Zero appetite." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's like, "Zero back." He goes, "I mean, I knew I knew that. I knew that with Drew's epit. I mean, there's a part of me that wants to show the audience because I did the first one for like really to show like for and and get perspective for training normal ass people." people." people." And so that was the goal.

I could absolutely take that absolutely I could absolutely take that uh with the strategy of how do I use this to get shredded and I and I know I I would I would manage the dose a little bit different and and I would hit it right with that sweet spot where I still have an appetite and I can get what I need to but it just I I remember how much it just completely eliminates the noise. I had no cravings for junk food. And that is when you are dieting for a show and training that consistently in a deficit for that long.

You have dreams about food all the I mean all the time I thought about food for weeks and weeks and weeks. and weeks. and weeks. And so to quiet that noise would would be the like it would make competing so much easier. Oh god. Oh god. Oh god. That's the hardest part. The hardest part about separates the hardest part about competing is is the diet. It's not the training part. lifting weights and showing the gym. A lot of people love that. It is lit. And if you know programming, that's the easy part.

The hard part is can you, you know, just tough it out. That's what always deterred me from and stay locked in, dialed to the calorie for months. And that is what that separates the people that can get up there and do that. And if I if I was using something like that to quiet that Oh, bro. Do you know what the average weight loss was for the people in the study? There's 445 people 28% of their body weight. So we have like tell me I want to know the muscle I want to know the muscle.

I don't have that I don't have the data on that but earlier data that I saw showed less muscle loss than the other uh than uh than uh than I remember that's what they originally when we were at Dr. Se's convention that's what uh what they were hyping they were alluding to it. Let me put it to you this way. A 300 pound person theoretically with this average weight loss on through this trial would have lost 84 pounds and how what period of time? Oh god, I should see how this how long the study went.

That's 612. No, no, no, no, no. It was it was a it was a longer study. I got to look up and see how long that was. But bro, that's wild. That is so wild. I got to look up. 72 weeks. 72 weeks. 72 weeks. So what how long is 72 weeks? What is that? that? that? Uh 52 weeks a year. So Oh wow. They did over a year long. Yeah. So, they were staying on it for a while. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I really want to know what the muscle is then.

So do I. Yeah, that's that to me. That's But dude, how crazy is it that obese people in the study were like, I got to stop this. I lost too much already. already. already. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, that sounds to me like a commercial. Well, that also alludes to me that they knew that they were losing a ton of muscle. That's why you would drop out. You know, you don't drop out cuz you're losing too much fat. You drop out because you you recognize it. Yeah. You're getting worried that you're you're losing a lot of muscle.

Yeah, dude. Yeah, dude. Yeah, dude. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? That's wild. That's wild. That's wild. I know. So many normal people that are using it right now. That's the part that's crazy to me. People who need to lose like 15 pounds, 10 pounds. Boom. Put me on a GP. There's no reason for that. It's a I mean, if it's a massive I know people who don't need to lose any weight weight weight who go on it because they just I don't want to, you know, I don't want to think about food.

about food. about food. What? What? What? Wow. Okay. Wow. Okay. Wow. Okay. It does take there there is a part and I guess you know what's what is the balance of this here, right? Because there's there's there there's the hedonistic value of food, right? like there's something to say happened to discipline discipline discipline like it it ruined ice cream for me like I mean I like I remember on it like let me try it and like oh my god I don't even want this like that's terrible I love this love this love this like so it's it's it's an interesting ice cream is all sad it is come back to me but it'll come right back though it'll come right back yeah you feed it a couple times and then your bug oh yeah I remember this hey uh change subject did you Men's Health did uh like this survey thing about uh skincare products you guys Want to know uh who got first place?

Who got best for anti-aging? Caldera Lab. I should hope it's Calera. Caldera Lab. Okay. Is that a new article? Card in Men's Health magazine named the Hydro Layer the best for anti-aging. I don't even use that one. So hydrolayer is pure moisturizer. So it's a moisturizer. Okay. Okay. Okay. Um and the I mean it's so that's the one my wife uses. So I have the hydrolayer. Uh we have the serum. Um and she likes the hydro layer and she she's like, "Dude, I put it on.

It's like the best moisturizer I've ever used. What does that say there, Doug? Yeah. So, it has uh exoomes. It says over a trillion uh exoomes. Hyuronic acid, polyglutamic acid, and peptide growth factors. Oh, I didn't know they have a a subscription. I didn't know they have a subscription model where you can save 20%. 20%. 20%. Oh, wow. That's really good. I didn't know that. Yeah. So, but I mean stuff like that, you know, it's Caldera Lab went from like new company to dominating. Oh yeah, it's such a a a crazy brand in that space for sure.

Clinical look at those clinical trials. They come out and they're just they crush. crush. crush. They're what I like about Here's the thing. What that I like about Keller. We haven't had um we haven't had their founder on the show, have we? No, that's a good that's true. It would be an interesting It would be an interesting story. It would be an interesting story because they went after a market that kind of didn't exist. didn't exist. didn't exist. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was men's skinare. I mean, it's much like Viori if you look at the parallel of that like serving the male market.

What else could we do? Let's think about this, guys. What's a market that women There's like a huge market for women. Not doing makeup, you guys. Okay. Makeup. No. Makeup. No. Makeup. No. You know, some companies have tried that. that. that. I dude. I dude. I dude. Really? Really? Really? Yes. Some companies makeup in the past have tried a little bit. I think their peak was only if you bring back glam metal or something. If there was one of us, if there was one of us that have tried it, Doug's tried it.

it. it. Doug's tried it. One year for Halloween. Oh, they have it. One year for Halloween, we were dressing up. I dressed up as a vampire and I put eyeliner on, you know, and my eyes were on and I looked in the mirror and I was like, "Whoa, dude. I look look like a magician." magician." magician." Like Chris Angel. I was so dude mysterious. mysterious. mysterious. What was it? I think I sent you a Chris Angel spoof video. Yeah. Yeah. I just DMs like crazy. There was Chris Angel.

I can't get Hey, by the way, too. Oh my gosh, that's funny. It's a real thing. thing. thing. What? What? What? That's a real company. That's Men's Makeup? Yes. Yes. Yes. Stop it. Stop it. Stop it. Shut your face right now. Yes, it's true. What are you going to put on as makeup as a guy? What are you going to put on your face? What do they got? Read me the manly dude. They got eyeliner. Yeah, brow blush. Brow darkener. Brow darkener. Brow darkener. Like enhancing your manly features.

Shine eraser. Quick cover. I go to the top. Show the guy. Show the guy. Yeah. No. Yeah. No. Yeah. No. Well, Well, Well, yeah. What is he doing to his eyebrows? I could tell something. Look, he looks sad. He looks sad. I wonder how it does. I see. I see. If it's a growing market, you're you're probably probably probably Oh my god. I don't even want to say the name of the company cuz I don't want to give give give Dude, Dude, Dude, I mean there's So it's more than one brand.

brand. brand. Well, yeah. So, see how see see if it's a growing market. This happened. This happened. This happened. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What is going on, guys? It's like concealers largely. So, like covering like covering like covering it says makeup for men. It is makeup for men. men. men. Well, yeah. Well, yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking either that or justify heels for heels for heels for I'm think I'm thinking about trying this under eye concealer. It popped up. A popped up in his search really fast.

He didn't even finish typing. typing. typing. He put he put M and then make up for men and pop bump right up. Welcome back. Welcome back. Welcome back. What do you get? I've been found out here. Who's at home after work? I got like one of those tissues and put my lips on it. Compact. Compact. Compact. I knew he was cheating, bro. I knew he was cheating to look that young. How funny would it be if like we all did like did makeup like men's makeup, went home, didn't say anything?

Like like what would your wife say? We don't look like clowns. It's not uncommon though if you're on in films and things like that on TV. Hey, I'll tell everybody right now watching us on camera. There's zero makeup on our faces. I look this ugly for real. Everybody can tell. tell. tell. We realize that you guys they look adjusted. Do you live outside cracking as we smell? What's going on here? here? here? Oh god. Anyway, hey, do you guys have you guys seen the studies? I'm sure you haven't.

Uh, where do you guys have? guys have? guys have? Hey, you guys pissed off, bro. Blow blow, man. Have you guys sound like Gavin Newsome there? there? there? Hey, Hey, Hey, hey, that clip. I'm just like you guys. I'm just like you guys. I'm going viral. So many people are already making so many. Who's his PR person? He's such a snake. Actually, I've been paying his PR person. person. person. Yeah, cuz taxes. All right. So, there's uh Where do you guys keep your toothbrushes in the bathroom?

Where's your toothbrush? your toothbrush? your toothbrush? A little cup thing. Out in the open. Out in the air. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How about you, Justin? For what? For what? For what? Your toothbrush. Your toothbrush. Your toothbrush. Uh yeah, I know where this is going. I know where this park feal matter, dude, is on your toothbrush. I've heard this. If you flush your toilet, if you don't close your toilet with how far away I got a pretty big bathroom and it's pretty far away, bro. Do you know how far the spray goes, Doug?

Look up. How far does the does this does what do they call the spray from toilet flushing? How far does that reach? Mine's pretty far away. You would be shocked. That's like saying if someone has their toothbrush in their bedroom, it's going to get down. Well, to get it's going to get down. Well, that's how I mean mine's far away. It's You have it on your phone anyways. What? What? What? Poop. Poop. Poop. Poop face. Poop face. Poop face. I know for sure. Talk about your own.

That's why I always talk on speaker phone. phone. phone. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What? Oh, yeah. One near your face. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It says it can go up to 5T. Oh, see I'm good, bro. You're 5T. All right. Yeah. My sinks. My sink's sink's sink's Mr. Adam at least 30 foot bathroom. My bathroom's not that big. Well, it's not that big. It's not that big, but it's definitely more than eight down the five. Now, listen. When I had my condo, when I had my condo, my bathroom was definitely like that.

Yeah. Yeah. So, a lot If you live in a condo, you probably absolutely have a Just trying to be relatable right now. I was poor. was poor. was poor. I used to be poor. Whatever. Whatever. Gavin. Oh, my just like you. Oh, my bathroom. There's no way the poop touches my toilet, bro. I got to call my wife from one end to the other. Well, you're silly, bro. But you have to factor that in that to say something like that with a study. There's got to be some sort of a range that they're doing that with because although my bathroom is not any I have a small bathroom actually do not have for relative to my house and everything else is not big at all.

It's not my house is huge. My bathroom should be huge. huge. huge. It's not you have I think you No, Doug has has has Doug Doug has a big dude. The guy with the least amount of people has the biggest house. Not yet. He hasn't got Have you gotten your new place yet? Yes, I have it. Yeah. Are you there? Not there. No. He's got two houses. You got his square footage is Hey, so Hey, so Hey, so what are you going to do at the West Wing?

Wing? Wing? You going to stay on one side? I'm going to put a velvet rope intercom. You going to throw parties, dude? What's I will I will intercom just to get your toothbrush. I just I just pictured Doug in his pajamas running down the hall back and forth. forth. forth. Are is your is your toilet within 5t of your sink? your sink? your sink? Um let me think. Yeah. Oh, it is. Yeah, probably. Oh, well. Oh, well. Oh, well. Yeah, probably. I just I rinse it in the toilet cuz I don't mess around.

You know what I mean? Might as well do Well, so now toilet bowl water is actually supposed to be really clean. Not toilet bowl water. Yes. Yes. Yes. The the stuff in the tank. You're talking about the tank. The tank. Yeah. Not the What have you done in the bowl? What do you mean? Why would the bowl be clean? clean? clean? Well, what do you mean? You have to ask. Hold on a second. Please. What? What do you want? Just like the dogs. You you have a look on your face like you're just uh oh I'm not borrowing you too.

You said a good place to scoop out and drink it. Not if there's ever an emergency. The tank wall tank wall tank wall tank of the top. Yeah, the tank. Not the bowl. I feel that looks way grosser. No. No. What? Have you ever looked at the back of that? that? that? Nobody poops on that though, dude. That's the thing. Unless you do upper decker, which would be just That's the worst. Don't upper deck anybody. Don't upper deck anybody unless you really really really You'll never fix that.

No. Throw away your toilet. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's not toilet bowl. It's that the bowl water is not clean. So your place that is that you're within 5 ft, huh? Yes, I'm sure I am. Oh, so you're So you brought up a study that only affects you? No. No. No. Yes. Yes. Yes. He was worried about it. Yes. Yes. Yes. Are you Are you within five? Oh, no. I It's probably like uh maybe like eight. like eight. like eight. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 10. 10. 10. It's like 99% of the people listening.

So do you guys Now everybody start to downplay their make trying to make me look like a total [ __ ] I've got this massive amount. I do not have massive amount. I do not have In fact, I do have TV in your bathroom. No. Okay. No. I don't have No. Okay. No. I don't have a TV in my I wanted one. You have a TV in your closet? I do. God, you're such a girl. Whatever. You know how cool that is? Play sports while I'm hanging out my clothes.

clothes. clothes. His closet's pretty cool, dude. You been in it? in it? in it? No. No. No. Get into Adam's closet. It's a secret club, dude. With all his shoes. He showed me. Yeah. No, I'm cool, dude. Doesn't care about any of that stuff. I mean, this guy shits next to his toothbrush. I mean, that's true. while bumping bumping bumping content with that. But you if you close the seat when you flush, that's what you need to do. That was the whole point of what I was trying to say you guys is close the seat.

Flush the car. the car. the car. This is a PSA. Don't leave the seat up. I know you like to watch it go down, Justin, but put the seat down. seat down. seat down. You know what I mean? Like, Like, Like, you got to game I play. All right. So I want to talk to you guys about so one of our our partners row I want to talk about liposomaal technology which has been around for a long time and it's one of their uh one of their selling points and so I brought up some some just some stuff on liposomaal technology which I think um you know people need to know about.

So liposomes are essentially they're microscopic bubbles of essentially a type of a fat phosphoipid that surrounds the compound and it protects it and brings it to target tissues. By the way they use this for drugs. drugs. drugs. So pharmaceuticals who use liposomaal technology but with supplements I looked up the data. Do you know how much it increases bioavailability? increases bioavailability? increases bioavailability? Oh most a bunch. Five to 10 times. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Five to 10 times. You know, I never heard about that until like maybe a few years ago.

And I feel like so many supplement companies are now moving in that direction. that direction. that direction. I'll give you an example. Glutathione. If you take glutathione and it's not liposomaal, you're wasting your time. It's a total waste. You you in fact the old way of taking glutathione only used to be injection because if you took it orally, you get no no rise in glutathione in your system. It was just a complete waste of time. time. time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Liposomal glutathione definitely works because it's encapsulated.

And so what Rorow does with their products, they have creatine, NAD, they have glutathione, they have magnesium, all of them have this liposomaal tech uh technology. So when you if you use those things in other ways and then you try Rose, you're probably going to get better better absorption. Well, we've been on the liposomaal uh glutathione kick for a while, but I I like row better because of the it's in the bottle and I can you can just squirt it in like it's so it's so much more convenient.

Yeah. And I've been consistent with that, too. You just reminded me that I hadn't done today. That's good. All right. I got one more study for you guys. It's uh it's making Yeah, you guys haven't read this. No way. No, I'm just kidding. You guys might have seen this actually. It was a study on um homeschool versus uh you know, kids going to traditional school and how well they do uh with their tests. Uh who does better, homeschooled kids or public school kids? Home school. For sure, bro.

It's not even close. even close. even close. Way better. Way better. Way better. I'd like to see private I'd like to see private school thrown away. Way better. Yeah, cuz I think I think uh like public school struggles big time against both of those, both home school and private school. school. school. But home homeschooled kids just generally crush in comparison to other kids. Even private school kids, do you think it's more is it against private school kids? Even private school kids. Oh, I like to see that.

Now, private school kids tend to out outperform public school kids. I would like to see, you know, I like see see see home school kids typically do the best. I I have a theory that that the like Okay. What do you think is the uh I think the the biggest factor of that I don't I don't think it's curriculum. Whoever's teaching Whoever's teaching Whoever's teaching I don't think that I so I think it's two things. I know what you're going to say. Uh homeschool parents really pay they really pay attention or involved.

So okay. So okay. So okay. So that that plays the biggest role. Well well I think that plays in what I I think it's the ratio of kid to to teacher. teacher. teacher. Of course. Of course. Of course. Yes. the attention and homeschool is going to have one on four or oneonone when you four one on four or oneonone when you because you're probably don't have the average person probably doesn't isn't homeschooling more than four kids at home. home. home. Are they really factoring in the parent that doesn't want to do it but is you know homeschooling?

know homeschooling? know homeschooling? This is all homeschool kids. Yeah. So all of them. Here's the other thing too. When you talk to uh I had clients that were really big in this community. I've told this story before but their kid was struggling in elementary school. Like really struggling. And these were two really smart people. they were successful in tech, they were able to retire. So, they say, "Hey, we're going to homeschool this kid." And at the time, I remember thinking like, "That's not a good idea." Because I had that kind of uh, you know, just that mentality around it.

Well, anyway, this kid did really well uh as a result because you tailor it to your kid. But anyway, I got into that community. Do you know how long you Do you know how long you know what the average amount of education per day, let's say, per school day, how much time a home kid spend on it versus it versus it versus it's like an hour or two. I mean I I I was I was homeschooled for a year and when I was it was in uh seventh eighth grade.

Seventh grade. Um was that cuz you got in trouble or was it? it? it? Yeah. Get in fights. Um that remember I was getting bullied was when I tell the story when I moved to Colorado. Um and I basically I I I it was in a full year because I was already going to school um the first quarter and then the rest of the year I was homeschooled and so basically it just followed the school's curriculum school's curriculum school's curriculum and my mom would just give me the stuff that I needed to work on for day.

I was done in like two hours. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I would do the school work in two hours. I had the whole rest of the day. No distractions. Like it's Yeah. It was just It was It's crazy. But when you actually condense it down to what you need to do and just like hone in and focus on what what's getting done, it's like goes time. Yeah. Yeah. That's what killed me about school in general. in general. in general. Yeah. You're just bored, dude. It's just wasted like time and and effort and effort and effort and it's so inefficient, you know, and that just I don't know.

Well, they always frustrated me. frustrated me. frustrated me. The the old argument against the two of those used to be the socialization. I know I know I know that used to be the big argument. Yeah, but that's if you just keep your kid inside alone and that's all you do. Uh but they do activities outside of school sports. You put them in. It would be interesting to see how many cuz I do know I mean I have family that that home school. Yeah. Yeah. And the kids are amazing.

Some of the best kids I've ever been around. So, um but I also know they they they were very proactive about those things. So, it would be interesting to see if you if you took all the homesooled parents, uh, how many of them do a good job of actually doing that because I think I could also see how easily you could isolate your kids. You know what I'm saying? Because it's just like you're home you're home all day anyways and it's like, you know, maybe the real effort is to get them involved in a lot of other like extracurricular things.

extracurricular things. extracurricular things. Have you guys seen the data? I don't know what the exact numbers are. Maybe Doug can find these, but the percentage of kids who are homeschooled versus traditional education that then follow that then have their parents' values as they get older. In other words, if you homeschool your kids, what percentage of those kids will have your same similar values versus values versus values versus 80% 80% 80% 90%. It's crazy. You put them in these these systems, these, you know, especially especially especially indoctrinated.

Yeah. Cuz they're Oh my god. Then then you What happened to my kid? My kid's like crazy. uh and it's because they adopted these other I wonder too how much like uh like it matters too how much the the parent is involved on a daily basis with the kids school work too cuz I think that probably plays a huge role like that's one of the things I love about Max's school um is that it they force us to engage like I can't a week can't go by that I can't be involved as a parent in the schoolwork and so that's part of the schoolwork is he has they integrate the parents parents parents and in order for him to to be able to complete it so Do you have percentages on that, Doug?

I don't see any percentage. If you could change uh Yeah. Why he's living that speaking? Yeah. 49% in one study. Oh, I thought it'd be higher than we were talking about the efficiency of it and everything and like how like little time you need to spend. Remind me of this quote. I was like my new favorite quote. It was brevity is the soul of wit, wit, wit, which is from like Hamlet, I guess. But it was just like to me of course my personality it's kind of like you know I'm just very succinct like what can I get done with the least amount of words.

Uh but yeah that's I like I would love to have to have to have experienced education like that. No, I we got such a cool uh compliment from us. So, right, we're coming up on uh parent teacher conference stuff. Um and Katrina and I are traveling during the time and so she she stayed and to talk to the teacher and let her know, oh, you know, what can we do this and that um we can come. We were leaving town for this this and that. And the lady's like, oh, you don't you don't need to come in.

And is like, well, no, the the parent conference thing is she's like, yeah, no, you don't your your kid's fine. She's like, well, I'll zoom call you. It's not for it's not for your kid. And Katr's like, "What? What do you mean?" And she's just like, "He's such a a good kid. We we we really want parents to come in that we need to sit down and talk with talk with talk with Tommy. His parents are coming in. We need to talk to them." Yeah. Yeah.

It was like a really She's like It was a really cool compliment to Yeah. the teacher be like, "No, no, no. He's he's doing just fine." Like she's like, "I'll I'll I'll zoom you. We'll take five minutes and just keep you updated on everything." Great kid. He's a great kid. Dose has some pretty incredible products. They have a liver support product that's been shown in studies, real studies to dramatically lower liver enzyme values. In other words, it's all natural, but it actually works. There's a lot of stuff out there that'll say it improves the health of your body or your liver, but they don't have anything backing it.

Dose actually backed it with a study. If you want a healthier liver, better detoxification, better detoxification, better detoxification, uh you want better metabolism, you want to feel more energetic because you have a healthier liver, go to dosedaily.co/mindpump. dosedaily.co/mindpump. dosedaily.co/mindpump. The discount code is mindpump. That'll give you 25% off. Back to the show. Our first caller is Megan from Alberta. Hi Megan. How you doing? Hey guys. How's it going? Good. How can we help you? Good. Okay. So, I'm just going to jump into a little bit of my back story here because it's kind of long.

Um, so my question is going to be regarding the negative effects of an imbalance in the body. Um, so four years ago, I was diagnosed with severe TMJ. Over those last four years, I have had three jaw surgeries, the most recent being a full joint replacement, and I still might need a fourth uh surgery. Uh after my first surgery, my jaw pain started to get worse and within that year, I started having a lot of anterior ankle pain. As my jaw progressively got even worse, yet so did my lower body pains.

My feet and shins also started to become a chronic problem. It has become so bad now that most days I can only take my dog for maybe a 20 minute walk and some days I can't even do that. Um, I've tried everything um possible so far. So, I've done physio, osteopath, chiropractor, massage, acupuncture. massage, acupuncture. massage, acupuncture. I've done Botox in my jaw twice. Uh, done the Jew red light for about a year. Um, supplements, air compression boots, ice, heat rest, stretching mobility, and I got custom insoles um from my podiatrist.

So, my podiatrist had recently sent me for an MRI on my ankles just before I had um heard back from you guys. I did get the results back. Um I just haven't had a chance to meet with him yet to like go through it all, but I kind of have the gist of it if you guys you guys want that information. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I'm gonna probably screw up these some of these words, but um so on both ankles they're showing an elongated appearance of the pionis brevis and slight difference of the anterior toibular ligaments.

Um left ankle has tiny dorsal osteopittes. Right ankle has some thickening in the ATFL ATFL ATFL trace fluid in the tendon sheath and remote tail nvicular injury uh of so the ATFL it was complete without ruptures but most likely from prior lowgrade sprains. I did play basketball a lot in school but that was almost 20 years ago now. Um, I gave these MRI results to my new osteopath and she showed me kind of where all the areas connect from the jaw to the feet and the ankles and such.

Um, and then my nervous system. Uh, so we discussed the possibility that my severe jaw pain and inflammation could have affected these other areas and past minor injuries. She also noted signs of dysfunction in my perryioium system and may possibly have myofascial pain syndrome. pain syndrome. pain syndrome. Uh before I started this osteopath, everyone kind of always told me just to rest, relax, don't overdo it. Um which I've been doing. I haven't worked in like three years because of all of this. and my pain has just progressively gotten worse and worse even within the last couple weeks.

So, I'm just not sure like how I could do any less. Um, so I'm just wondering what your guys' thoughts and opinions are on the idea that my jaw could be affecting my my feet and ankles. Uh, as the last time I did see my podiatrist, he laughed at me for even suggesting that that that's a possibility. possibility. possibility. So, I just don't understand why all of a sudden this is coming back. Yeah. Or this is coming into my ankles and feet just like with a vengeance.

Yeah. Really, really sorry you're going through that. One of the most challenging things challenging things challenging things is um is to deal with chronic pain and then to not be able to find a solution or a root cause. That can be super frustrating. And you said you've been dealing with this for years. Uh so that's that's really really tough. Uh theoretically Uh theoretically Uh theoretically um pain and dysfunction in any part of the body can affect any other part of the body the body the body for sure.

for sure. for sure. Uh and we could we could have physiological you know movement explanations but I think the easiest explanation is if you hurt a lot you're going to move differently. Okay. So and it doesn't matter where you hurt. if it's chronic and in pain, uh you're going to move differently because you're constantly in pain. So, that's possible. There's other few areas that I would look if I were you, though. Uh because it could it sounds like potentially there's also something systemic systemic systemic going on.

So, I would look for things that could cause um changes uh to how your body perceives pain systemically, things that may cause inflammation for example, or things that may cause uh dysfunction uh in a systemic way. Um I would test for uh heavy metal toxicity, mold exposure. mold exposure. mold exposure. Uh I would test for parasites all three of which can cause pain to pop up in different parts of the body and then uh what tends to be kind of signature with those things is you'll have pain in one area then it pops up in another another area then it pops up in another area and then before you know it you're kind of hurting all over.

Okay. So I would look at those things and you can get tested for mold, heavy metal and uh and parasites just to rule them out. uh because I have worked with people where they dealt with something similar to this uh and it was it was also accompanied by um foggy you know feeling foggy minded and uh and they did have mold toxicity and once they were able to u or mold exposure once they were able to solve that everything kind of went away. The other op the other thing is this um we can't separate it's impossible to separate separate the physiological from the psychological and so um and it could look like this.

It could look like you have uh chronic pain from actual dysfunction, but then it causes so much uh distress uh so much of an interference and interruption to your life um that uh it's you start and this just this is literally for lack of a better term because whenever I say this people's reaction are like oh what you think it's all in my head well pain is always all in your head no matter what even if I cut your arm off the pain that you perceive is in your head.

So, it's not like you're making it up, but um the trauma that can come from chronic pain, especially if it's a major interference or interruption into your life, like you can't work, you relationships suffer, and it's just this this this it's just there all the time. It can cause this uh scenario where you have pain all over your body. But I would first rule out any kind of uh you know measurable physiological measurable physiological measurable physiological uh condition or issue. Now you're going to to osteopaths um and they're going to you know image you.

They're going to look at the joints. What it sounds like with your ankles is what you would expect if someone has ankle pain. It doesn't sound like there's this big red flag. Uh but it does like like I would expect to see something if you had pain. Um, but I wouldn't, you know, if you were my friend, I wouldn't rush to surgery. Mm- Mm- Mm- until we ruled out some of this other stuff. Uh, because if it's not, if the surgery doesn't solve it, what you end up what ends up happening is uh a sequence of surgeries uh and then a potential loss of uh you know, mobility and all that stuff.

So, have you had have you tested for any of the things that I said? Have you seen someone functional medicine that can do that? I have. Yeah. Um I did the Cabral um heavy metal a test. It was a couple years ago now, but um I just had like minimal like aluminum which they said most people okay kind of tend to have. Um, and I do see a natural path here and they tested me for micotoxins. Okay. micotoxins. Okay. micotoxins. Okay. Um, a mold. And I do have high Um, a mold.

And I do have high records of that. Um, and we've been working on it for a good six to eight months or so now. Okay. Okay. Okay. I just yeah I'm just trying to explore kind of every avenue because I know that the micotoxin in the sheet that he gave me it did show like inflammation in the lower legs lower legs lower legs and stuff. and stuff. and stuff. Um which I thought made sense. So I was that's kind of why I was going down that route.

But then just it kind of gets overwhelming the more people I talk to. It kind of almost hinders it a little bit. But so these osteopaths, they're really great, but like um they're the first ones that kind of put that little seed in my head that it could be from like more so from my ankle or sorry from my jaw. my jaw. my jaw. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is it just with the timing of it all was kind of like, oh maybe, you know, I just thought it was strange that it went straight to my feet and not to like upper body, but whatever.

It's possible. I mean, it's definitely possible. Um, and I've seen, you know, again, like I like I said, somebody listening right now, if your uh your face and your neck were in constant pain, you would move differently. differently. differently. Yeah. Was that the only place that you had like an injury that you can remember from back when, like your ankles? Um, yeah. I've never really had like any sort of major like injury per se. I've only sprained my ankles and like my fingers um playing basketball.

Mhm. Um maybe a wrist, but I don't think it's been so long. But um uh I did hyperextend my one my left knee um almost 10 years ago now. And it is still that was kind of I was going to try to work that into my question somehow, but um it is still a fairly weak knee. Like I just can't seem to get that back. Um, but there was no like actual injury per se. I had all the scans and stuff. I just kind of I already have double jointed knees, so I just kind of went back a little too far.

Um, Um, Um, and then I had a horseback riding accident, but I didn't break anything. I didn't um didn't um didn't um like fracture anything. I just was bruised basically. bruised basically. bruised basically. So, nothing like too major. But Megan, with the with the with the mold test and stuff, did have you had your home tested to see if you have uh any mold in the house? No, we had just bought a new not new, but new to us um home, so I haven't done that.

But that. But that. But how long ago? Um Um Um not even a year ago yet. Okay. Um just just double check. you might want to test just to make sure because it does sound a little little systemic systemic systemic uh with what's going on. Um and then don't don't don't So here's the thing with pain. You have the we can measure what's happening with pain. Um we can see the signals being sent and we can see you know inflammation inflammation inflammation but the perception of the pain is such a big part of it.

Uh it's remarkable. I mean it's remarkable. You could talk to surgeons about when they do surgeries on children who don't know any better and versus adults which are you know oh man I'm supposed to be in a lot of pain and there's a very different kind of response. Uh my wife uh experienced this um uh very it was very acute. She had this shoulder injury. She used to travel with the circus and she used to do the silks and it kind of became a part of her identity.

before that she never worked out and everything and then suddenly she was like, "Oh my god, I could do something athletic and I'm fit and I love it." And then she hurt her shoulder and you know when I started dating her, this was already years after she had left, she had this kind of chronic shoulder pain. And we would constantly do correctional exercise and we had gotten to the point where her mobility and strength seemed okay, but the shoulder pain was still there. And we had this discussion around this kind of trauma connected to the shoulder pain.

and um we kind of worked on that and it just went away. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. And she was like I I didn't even and I'm like well you know it changed your life and and I I can't imagine how much of an impact what you've experienced has had on your life uh and that so don't discredit that as well uh in terms of how that could potentially be influencing you know all of these things and even influ influencing the systemic effect effect effect uh with your immune system.

But I I would continue to look Lyme disease would be another thing I would look for mold. mold. mold. Uh I would look for these things that can cause an immune uh kind of reaction. And then with exercise, I would uh train in a way that was correctional. Movement's always good. Sauna is always good. A good diet is always good. Uh but definitely one thing can affect another. Just just simply from the pain alone. I don't need to connect the dots and show how the system, you know, the how it's all connected.

I think that's how doctors think, but it's like, you know, if I punched you in the face, you probably walk differently for a while until it healed, which theoretically could affect your ankles, knees, and everything else. everything else. everything else. Have you been able to get any relief with light movement, mobility with your ankles, or is it just kind of aggravate it? it? it? I feel like it just aggravates it. And again, that's the mental thing where I'm like nervous to um do too much or like, you know, like even with mobility and um stretching, like sometimes it'll inflame it and then I'm sitting on the couch like dying.

Um or sometimes I'm okay, but then it's the next day it hits me. And I'm just like nervous to like I haven't been to the gym in like a year, but that's mostly because of my jaw because it just Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. like you don't realize how much it like things can pull on you and then um but like with the feet and ankles like they literally just started getting to like the point I'm at now which is I barely do anything um because they're so inflamed and they just like it just kills me even just to clean my house kind of thing.

So, I have to break that up into different days. And um so, yeah, I haven't done a whole lot of of like working out or anything. And I was hoping that maybe you guys could talk me into getting back. I think I think your best approach with exercise is to do a little bit um every day day day when you feel okay. Uh use bands. Mhm. Correctional exercise. If you don't have Prime Pro, I'll send that to you. Those are the movements that I would do.

Um, and you do you would just practice them a little bit here and there when you feel okay. When you don't squeeze to get a pump, that's it. And just kind of move through different ranges of motion uh in in those uh with those particular movements. But I would definitely look at things that can affect uh you systemically, lime, mold. Uh I would look at um any anything with the gut. Uh then I would look at any potential autoimmune issue. uh they could test for autoimmune issues uh to see if there's anything else like that.

But those are the areas I would look because it sounds like it's systemic. It doesn't sound like it's just one area with pain with pain with pain uh and then it's just staying there. Sounds like it's kind of found a weak link that it could gravitate towards. Yeah. Right. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, I don't um I will definitely try to do the prime pro. I appreciate you guys sending it. Um I don't really have many good days, but I'll I'll definitely do a little bit here and there and just see how see how it goes cuz like nothing nothing um nothing um nothing um and that's one thing like I was with the red light I was I had really high hopes and and um with it to just show something.

Um, but I'm wondering if it is so is so is so like systemic like you say if that's just not just not just not Have you tried any you've been tested for lime? You tried any peptides or anything yet? Um, I actually just started peptides four days ago. It's really hard to get them here them here them here in Canada. They're kind of stingy about them. So, I finally found a hopefully reputable uh place to get them from. My girlfriend's been through these guys for about a year, so she hasn't died yet, so I'm okay.

Okay. Okay. Okay. So, yeah, I started um BPC 157 um as listening to you guys and then it has a mix of TP 500 in it. in it. in it. Okay. Okay. Okay. So, it's only been Yeah. Today will be day five. Yeah. Um you want to give that about a month or two two two and then like and you tested for lime. I had asked that earlier. U uh yeah u many many moons ago. Um it did come back positive. Um but it was yeah it was about uh 10 years ago or so.

And I've we've done so many things to work through it and nothing has ever budged with it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's why we're my naturopath has me on the miccotoxin route because he thinks that that could be blocking any sort of treatment. Okay. Okay. Okay. But yeah, so I do have that um as a natural fast standpoint. If if if I test here in Canada through like a actual medical doctor, I show as a negative. Yeah. So, Yeah. So, Yeah. So, it's hard to Yeah, you got some the testing is sometimes not sensitive enough.

enough. enough. Um well, yeah, I wish I could give you a better answer. Uh but my uh my gut feeling is to look for something that's affecting you systemically and not not locally, you know, not like it's the joint, but rather why is my body uh so inflamed and why am I developing areas of inflammation is where I would look. Okay. Right. And like when you mentioned diet, diet, diet, I know that lots of the foods that I'm eating aren't um like an inflammatory per se because like I I'm so limited on what I can eat, right?

Like uh some days I can eat ground ground beef like in a spaghetti sauce day or something and then some days I can barely Oh wow. I can barely hand chewing chewing that like so lots of times I just try to you know choke it down but um yeah so I am eating a lot of carbs and um pastas stuff like that soup I get the occasional shake in but I got so sick of shakes from surgery that I kind of fell off of them but so so so it's probably not a bad it's probably not a bad thing to avoid common food intolerances.

So, gluten, dairy, legumes, night shades. Um, and so you'd stay kind of like um fruits, uh, you know, vegetables. Aside from night shades, I'd stay away from night shades and meats. Um, and see it only because of the state that you're in. Any any common intolerance may make things worse, but that can't hurt. It can't hurt to go in that direction. Kind of like a paleo style diet. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I'll I'll try that. All right. Well, Megan, if you get any any more information, we'd love to hear back from you.

Hopefully people watching this too, they might, you know, know somebody or, you know, maybe there's a a medical professional watching this that has ideas, too. So, hopefully it gets out and gets you some answers. Oh, thanks. I appreciate that. You got it, Megan. All right. Thanks for calling. Awesome. Thank you so much. You got it. That's tough. I didn't want to put her in a position on the call. When I've had client, this is rare when you get somebody like this that's had that's like checking all the boxes.

Um, and they just can't get to the bottom of what it is. I've had experience uh many, not many, a handful of times where uh some of this stuff is related to like childhood trauma. childhood trauma. childhood trauma. Sure. Sure. Sure. And uh if you have just powered through your life and never really done a lot of work on that, it tends to start to express itself in all these weird things and injuries and symptoms and stuff and autoimmune issues and things that you can't quite get to the bottom of.

And so um I didn't want to put her on the spot on on this. You know what's tough about that, Adam? That's by the way, that's not woo. There's there's there's data to support this. You can activate your immune system by uh by hating on hating yourself. Exactly. Your immune system starts to identify your body as a threat. And we we know this the data can actually show this. this. this. Um and there's a very strong connection between autoimmune disease and depression, anxiety and and not just that they cause depression, anxiety, but depression, anxiety seem to cause higher rates of uh of autoimmune issue.

Um the problem is when you communicate that it's the person feels like dismissed or like what are you talking about? That's why I didn't want to say it. And this is this is what makes what we do a little difficult because we have this uh you know we have 10 minutes at best. We get to know these people in that short amount of time. And this would be something that as her and I are training I would slowly pull on that thread to find out more about childhood personal life things are going.

So I I'll tell a story. I'll tell a specific story. I had a guy that I trained who his wife came to me first. Then he started training with me and his body was so sensitive to pain that like my first couple sessions I was shocked. Like he'd do a row and I'd put my hands on him to kind of move his shoulders and he go ah he'd like flinch. And I remember thinking like this is really odd. Weird reaction. Weird reaction. Weird reaction. And after like two or three sessions it was like and and so we'd ask the questions no illness, no this, no that.

But like everything hurt and we had to be very careful. Uh so all I did and I this is back in the day when I you know I didn't have a lot of awareness around this. I had remember I had that really great physical therapist that worked in there. So I would do correctional exercises and stuff with him. Yeah. But over time what happened was uh we became friends. He became friends with the other people in the studio. And this is now looking back. He didn't have a lot of friendships.

He was very lonely. It was just like him and his wife and that's it. He did nothing else but work. And he started kind of coming out of his shell and his personality changed. He got happier. and through that process became way less sensitive. Now, he never got to the point where he's like, "Get after it." But the difference was dramatic. And I remember I would talk with my co-workers about this because I worked with this guy for a few years. And they're like, you know, I wonder if it was just uh he just had no he was lonely.

He didn't have any friendships. He had a really tough childhood. We never went into detail, but he would express that like I wonder if it was just kind of him opening up. He was so protective of his body and protective he opened up and and the pain significant difference in in how he reacted. Um and that stuck with me. That was one of my first experiences with like you know what we're talking about. Yeah. And I think too like you brought up even belly breathing with I've had the same experience with a client who was really holding on like really holding on and and the release of it um was like a crazy emotional experience.

experience. experience. Yeah, I've had that. is so you know in terms of like I don't know maybe getting in there and like being able to meditate and you know dive in further you know that that's worth investigating. But I've had you know like I said a handful of people that like where I just couldn't get to the bottom of it right I couldn't find the professional. I couldn't figure out the thing and and then something miraculously happened where they had a breakthrough at therapy or they got married and all a sudden found love or Yeah.

And then all of a sudden the pain is gone. And it's like I didn't do anything different in their workouts or their diet. It was just there was something going on inside internally that they were either suppressing or holding on to. And many times uh this is connected to childhood trauma stuff, things like that. And you know, again, I didn't want to I didn't I didn't want her to feel dismissed by that. Like you know, but by the way, the trauma could even simply be this.

Maybe there isn't anything in childhood or they could be, but it could also be this. I have severe jaw pain. It gets really bad. I have to get surgery. I can't work. It's hard for me to talk. It's hard for me to eat. I have to get another surgery. Now I'm not working for two years. I have to get another like that spiral. spiral. spiral. I Anybody goes through that, that is traumatic. That is severely traumatic. It changes everything. Right. Right. Right. Our next caller is Nicole from Arizona.

Hi Nicole. Hi Nicole. Hi guys. Thank you so so much. I seriously appreciate you giving me some time. time. time. Yeah, you got it. How can we help you? Okay, I'll just um read the email. So, hello. My name is Nicole. I'm 25 years old and grew up playing soccer and overall being very active. Since going to college and not playing soccer, I learned how to go to the gym and got into running mainly. I have always been very into fitness and healthy nutrition, but starting a few years ago, I took it too far and developed anorexia.

Since gaining back some weight, I've gotten to a point of the fittest I've ever been, yet almost the least of it because I overtrain and can't seem to find how much I need to fuel my body. I run five times a week and have um gotten a dex of skin and I have 15% body fat and I'm trying to get stronger. I usually get about 30,000 steps every day, which I know is too much, but I just feel like I have to move and if I don't, then I have to then eat way less.

I get answers from most um of the total daily energy expenditure results that I should be able to just maintain at 2,200 calories, but sometimes I feel like I could just eat like 4,000 calories every day and I'm hungry, but here I shouldn't eat too much and especially not carbs. So anyways, I think I'm doing too much, but would like to know how to make changes to work smarter, not harder harder and do the trans transition to doing less without losing progress with my endurance and low body fat.

Thank you guys so so much. Again, I really love the podcast. the podcast. the podcast. Yeah, thanks for calling in, hun. You're This is such It's so great to see someone your age uh ask a question like this. And there's some good self-awareness here which gives me a lot of hope uh for what we want to do with you. Okay. I got to ask you, do you have a regular period or has that been disrupted through the process that you went through through anorexia and the exercise and stuff?

Is that all normal? That is actually still disrupted. I probably haven't I mean I didn't have it for probably 2 years and then after I kind of recovered for a little bit I got it back a little bit but then it's been another two years probably since I've had it. had it. had it. Okay. So I'm I'll give you the plain like what's happening but then let's talk about how we could get there. Okay. You're definitely overtrained. You're definitely undereating still for sure. Cool. Now, we know the hard part is how do we get to a place where this doesn't feel so stressful.

Um, there's a couple things you said uh besides your past, which is obviously giving me a clearer picture, but you said I have to do 30,000 steps or I feel like I have to eat less. Who's forcing you? What do you mean? mean? mean? I don't even know. I swear for some reason I've I've always been a rule follower but I just like set these things or you know the health world says to do you know X or Y you know and I take it to the extreme and it's like if I don't do you know my exercise even if I'm exhausted then like the world is over or whatever it may be.

I get it. But answer the I get it. But answer the question, who is forcing you to do these things? things? things? I mean, it's myself, you know, and nobody else. nobody else. nobody else. That's it. And and what it probably feels like to you when you're creating this structure and these rules is that it feels like I got my hands around it and I'm controlling things. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Which can feel calming uh when things feel out of control or it feels like if I don't have my hands on these things, oh my god, what's going to happen?

happen? happen? So, there's a couple ways we could go about this because I can give you the answers right now, but I don't think it's going to help you. Um, I think you either a need a coach to work with you through this process because it's going to be a bit tough. If that's not feasible for you, Nicole, if that's something that's not available uh just financially for you, I think what I would do with someone like you, somebody who needs a target, is I would point you in a direction that's going to move you the furthest away from this challenge.

It's not the perfect target, but it's going to move you away from it. Uh, and there's a competitive element, which I sounds like you like. Sounds like you kind of like something to aim for and something that's competitive. And what I would do, so here's your two options. Option one, the best is work with a coach. We have coaches here at Mind Pump that we handpick, so I trust them. Option two is to pursue powerlifting. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Powerlifting is going to be your best bet as far as a competition and target because it's going to if you're really seeking to get stronger and compete, it's going to move you away from all this other stuff that's a bit damaging.

Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Sorry. No, no, go ahead. Go ahead. I was just because I like I've started to try to like strength train, you know, in the gym, but it is like I feel like I just get like lost or if I were to like imagine just doing strength training, which it's not even just like strength training obviously is very difficult, but I'm like, "Oh, if I don't run and have this huge sweat, then like I, you know, didn't get a good workout in and now I have to eat way less because I didn't burn as calories or whatever.

whatever. whatever. It's so not true though, just so you know. And and that feeling that you have where you feel like you could eat 4,000 calories, that's your body's natural signal saying, "I need those calories." That's not a bad thing. That's like you go out and you do 30,000 steps in a day, which is crazy. A crazy amount of steps. That's a ridiculous amount. That type of that a person doing 30,000 steps a day and running should be eating 4,000 plus calories a day. day. day.

Yeah. And if you're not anywhere near that, the reason why you feel like you're starving is because your body is. And which is also why the period is shut down. down. down. Is that our our body fat percentage is too low. We're pushing way too hard. We're way on the other extreme. We have to come. And this is why Sal is saying the coach is so important is because this isn't like one or two little just tweaks. This is a process because we have to get on the whole other side.

In fact, what it looks like is increasing calories, cutting those steps down to under 10,000 steps and just lifting weights. Like that is so the opposite of where you're at. And the coach is going to guide you through that. through that. through that. And it's real easy for us to sit on our, you know, podcast chairs and tell you that. It's another thing to implement that and do that and and and the voices in your head that are telling you all these things and then and then heaven forbid you see the scale go up a few pounds and then freak out and think you're going the wrong way when actually you're building muscle and going the right way.

That's where the coach comes in is the coach is the one who kind of talks you off that ledge every day and goes, "Nicole, you're doing great. This is perfect. This is right where I want you." Like, "Oh, we're doing like that's the real value. It's less of the X's and O's and it's just that where you're at and where we need to go is is is is a pretty far pretty far trek and getting there is not hard from a physical standpoint. It's hard from a psychological standpoint.

psychological standpoint. psychological standpoint. Let me just let me just uh communicate something to you that that you may be aware of but you might not be aware of. This control that you're putting around all these things, it's actually the reverse. It is controlling you. So you are actually out of control. You are being tyrannized by exercise, diet, stress, body image, all these things are controlling you. You're not controlling. As much as you're trying to control it, it's actually controlling you, which probably gives you the sense that you need to control it even more.

And so this is kind of like spiral. like spiral. like spiral. It's a spiral down. Yeah. Yeah. So the answer is to is to do the scary thing which is to give the control up completely. up completely. up completely. But the easiest way to do that is to give it to someone else. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Uh now and I'm going to paint a couple pictures for you. Uh one here's one one path is if you keep going down you're 25 you're young but you're already your your period is irregular.

You're feeling like oh my god this doesn't feel good. What did the bone density say on your DEXA scan? Did you see it? Yeah. Was your bone density okay? My bone density was actually okay. My dad also got a Dexon. They told him he's built like a tank. So, I think I just have good genetics when it comes to bones. bones. bones. Good. Good. So, so what'll happen if you keep moving down this path is it's going to get uh more stressful, more difficult, more challenging, more negative symptoms.

Uh and it's going to feel terrible. So, right now, youth is helping protect you a little bit. Uh but if you keep going down this path, it'll be really, really nasty. Now, the the other path that we could do right now is you relinquish control to someone you trust. How long have you been listening to our show, by the way? It's been a couple years now. Okay. So, you you like us, you trust us a little bit. You think we know what we're talking Okay, so I Yes, definitely.

Yes, definitely. Yes, definitely. We have handpicked coaches because there's there's great coaches out there. Unfortunately, there's a lot of bad ones. The ones that we have are really good. So when you hear us communicate our philosophy around health and fitness and the methods, that's what our coaches do. And they're going to walk you through this entire process. And what's what you're going to do is instead of giving up control completely, which is really scary, you're going to give it to someone else and you're going to say, "Okay, I'm just going to follow what you're saying, even though it's scary, even though it's uncomfortable.

I'm just going to follow what you're saying." And you're going to give them that control. And then the process that that looks like is it's like wearing it's like training wheels training wheels training wheels is eventually you start to trust the process and you don't need to give that control to someone else. Then you're not with a coach and it's totally different. It's a totally different relationship. You don't feel trapped. You don't feel controlled. You feel vibrant. And now this health and fitness is now a vehicle for freedom and not a vehicle for tyranny which is what you're experiencing.

experiencing. experiencing. Nicole, you brought up uh your dad did the DEXA scan. He did it with you. Is uh Do you live at home still or you is he just is he aware of where you're at? I Yeah, I live at home or I finished college and have been at home right now just kind of working a little bit. And and is he a Does he know everything like as far as the anorexia and what you've gone through? Yeah, him and my mom. I've never really like worked with too many other people.

My mom was kind of my main um little superstar helping me through everything. So So So Oh, that's wonderful. Okay. Is do you think a coach is is that something that's feasible for you? Would that be something you would be interested in? I do think so because I just that's my biggest thing is my family is not super fit and healthy. It's and you know I kind of grew up in a household where it's like oh you know we could sit on the couch all day and eat whatever it doesn't matter.

You know what it's totally fine for some people. My family is the best. Um, but I just so I feel like I've always lacked trust in the people around me. I'm like, I have to do the opposite of what they're doing, you know? know? know? Um, and so like it's just hard for me with like anybody to be like, okay, how can I trust that they know exactly what my body needs even though I'm not even really listening to my body by pushing it to the limit, but it's like it's just that trust kind of thing.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Uh well, we'll take care of you. If you trust us, if you if you trust us and we handpick these people, I'll have somebody call you today and uh this is your best bet. And because of your awareness and your age, I have really high hope. I like I think you're going to do just great. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Thank you guys so much. I really appreciate it. appreciate it. appreciate it. You got it. We'll see you on later calls, Nicole.

calls, Nicole. calls, Nicole. Okay. See you. Bye, guys. Thank you. Uh, poor sweet girl. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, that's tough. It's I mean, you know, it's So, again, this is when I talk to people when they have that kind of awareness. awareness. awareness. Uh, the odds are high. The It's still hard. She's going to have to do some hard work, hard work, hard work, right? right? right? But the odds are high, especially at her age. At 25, you're like, "Hey, man. I got these issues and I need some help." Oh, yeah.

Most people be are in denial right now. Most people are still in denial about it or and they just keep going until their body shuts the heck down. Yeah. And then then they get all kinds of really bad Well, I mean, she's already having hormonal stuff, right? obviously if her her period's been shut down like that, but early enough, young enough. And it's great that she's got her bone density was okay, too, cuz that's the next thing that you start to see to deteriorate. And so, um, you know, catch it now and we'll be okay.

You know, it's the hardest part to me is that the answer is actually really easy. Like, it's like doing Yeah. It's like it's like cuz you're you're actually telling somebody who's doing way too much to to do less, back off, back off, back off, eat some more. You know what I'm saying? like and and that seems you for the average person listening is just like it's because you can't get in their own way. way. way. You can't know it just in your head. She knows it in her head.

She doesn't feel it. What she feels is the opposite. And that drives the what your actions are. You can try going from your head all day long. What it would look like for Nicole is she would be like, "Okay, cool. I'm going to do the steps." And then she'd feel so strongly against it that she would just stop. M but the coach is there to you give that to them and you follow them and there's going to be some stumbles. She's for sure going to not do what the coach says for a little bit and go back and maybe struggle and argue, but eventually it'll get to the point where she knows it.

Where she actually knows it on the inside, not just in her head. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Our next caller is Alyssa from California. California. California. Hi, Alyssa. Hello. Hey. Oh my gosh, I can't believe I'm talking to you guys in person. This is so weird. I listen to you every single day. My kids even know who you are. When I told them I was coming on, they were like, "Oh my gosh, it's the my pup, guys." So, guys." So, guys." So, thank you so much for calling in.

How long you been at Oakdale for? Um, I've been here for about three years. I I'm originally from Oklahoma, but I moved out of the Bay Area like 22 years ago. So, Oh, yeah. I I was like in Pleasanton, um, Dublin. I don't know if you guys know are familiar with Bay Area. Very familiar with all there. We're in the Bay Area, so we know all the San Jose. And I grew up in Oakdale. Oh, did you? Yes. Yes. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. Where you at?

Where what part of town are you at? Um I'm kind of over on the east side. And I don't know if you know where the like Save Mart is in the old Kmart. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, I'm kind of over in that area. So, yeah. My sister lived back over there for a while. Right over where the uh with the junior high is back over there, right? right? right? Yes. Yeah. The junior high is actually in my backyard. So, okay. I can hear the the band practicing every morning.

So, that's funny. Well, how can we help you? Well, I just thank you so much first of all because you guys have literally like changed the game for me. Like in the sea of like strength training and nutrition, health information, like you guys keep it real and I trust you more than pretty much anybody on the internet cuz it's just it gets so confusing and overwhelming. But um I'll just start off. My story is kind of complicated and long so I'll just kind of shorten it for you.

Um I'm 40 almost 46. I um have dealt with anorexia nervosa pretty much my whole life like since I was 10. So I've it's been a battle I've you know carried forever. But um been in treatment multiple times in and out. Um never really helped me. They put me in you know feed me 4,000 calories plus gain a bunch of weight come home feel gross lose it again over and over. Um what really helped me the most I think was when I was 13. My dad introduced me to strength training.

He was always into bodybuilding, weightlifting, all of that. He took me to the gym and changed the game for me. I instantly fell in love. Like it was back in the '9s, so girls weren't really like in the gym doing like, you know, bodybuilding moves and I was in there like, like, like, you know, back squatting and, you know, awesome. awesome. awesome. All all that stuff. And I just it changed how I my relationship with food and my body cuz for the first time food wasn't scary.

It was something I needed to like get strong and build my body up and and I wanted to get stronger and it was amazing. Um fast forward um I became a personal trainer in college. Loved it. Um Um Um I it just it just was something that you know I I it kind of cured me from that anorexia for a while. um got married, had a kid, um had twins, had another kid, and it just kind of I I have I'm a mom of four kids, so um you know, going to the gym is not that easy when you're a mom with four little kids.

So, I stopped going to the gym. Um kind of in a bad marriage. Um just felling back in the old ways of the anorexia and just kind of battled up and down for years. So, fast forward, here I am now and single mom, got four kids, they're all teenagers. Um, and I just I I'm kind of in on my way back to recovering again. Um, I'm I'm not at a healthy weight. I know I need to gain weight, but I've lost a lot of muscle in all my years of restricting, and I'm sarcopenic, like extreme.

Like, I have zero muscle mass right now. And um I I want to get back into strength training because I know how important muscle is, especially getting older. I don't want to be in my old age, fall, break a hip, and end up in the hospital. And you know, I mean, I listen to like Gabrielle Lion. I listen to you guys, you know, and like the m you know, muscle's important. And for me, it's never like I don't have body dysmorphia. Like I don't like I know I'm way too skinny and I I just I want to feel strong again.

Like my kids have never seen me strong and I miss that feeling. Like I can't even go to Costco by myself and get stuff because I can't lift anything. You know, I have to get my teenagers to lift Amazon boxes off the porch. And I want to be strong again. But I don't know where to start because I haven't lifted, like I said, since my 18-year-old, you know, before she was born. So, and I just feel so weak. Like, I I can barely do anything. Like, I I really have no muscle mass.

Like, so I just I I wanted to get you guys input on where to start. Like, I feel so intimidated. I have gym access. I have a gym right down the street, but I'm intimidated to go, you know, like with my personal training history and everything, I kind of know what to do. I just where I'm at now physically, I don't know. I don't know where to go. I'm lost. So, that's why that's why I wanted to, you know, I trust you guys and I just kind of wanted to see where you would, you know, where you would put me.

me. me. Yeah. God bless you. I think we could help you help you help you with this. Did the um if we could if if it's okay, I'd like to ask you a few more questions. more questions. more questions. Of course. Yeah. Did it did the did this start with body image issues or was it a control thing when you started the the relationship with uh with anorexia? You know, I think it was kind of a little bit of both. It it was started with body image and then it turned into a control thing.

Um I I never had any like you know I was typical kid. I was like I didn't think anything. I didn't even think about my body, you know. I just kind of ate and did, you know, did my thing and had a had a friend like poke my belly when I was I I still remember it like she poked my belly and oh, you've got a pot belly. And it was the first time I was like, "Oh, should I be thinking about my body?" And then that kind of scat cascaded into, you know, a diet and restricting and then it just went from there.

And then from there, it kind of became a control thing like in times of stress. That's kind of when the anorexia rears its head. It's like this is my way to kind of control something in my life because everything else is out of control. And so, you know, so yeah, it's uh it's that it's that it's that comforting friend. Uh it is. Yeah. A dysfunctional friend. Exactly. It's no different than somebody going to alcohol for that, you know, that kind of that relief or great awareness around all.

Yeah. And it sounds like you're ready to care for yourself. Absolutely. Yeah. Okay, that's exciting. I So here I'll give you some advice. So I I totally hear you with the intimidation with the gym. And so I think a step by-step approach is the best. I think with a good routine that you could do at home to start with would be great to build some strength and confidence before going back to the gym. Do you have anything at home like dumbbells, uh suspension trainer, resistance bands, anything like that?

Yeah, I've got I've got a set of 15 pound dumbbells and I've got a a 45 pound kettle bell. Great. Okay. Okay, great. I think MAP starter would be a good program to start with. with. with. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. I also think map suspension would be another a good program. And what I'm going to do, we don't normally do this, Alyssa. You don't have a suspension trainer. trainer. trainer. I don't know. Okay. We're going to send you a suspension trainer. And I'm also going to send you map suspension.

Thank you so much. Oh my gosh. So, you'll have two options. You'll have MAP starter and MAP suspension. Uh, and they're both great atome programs. I think doing a little bit daily is a good idea in combination with some of the changes in diet. Have you made any dietary changes? dietary changes? dietary changes? Not really. I'm kind of um I'm kind of stuck right now. I I'm like a very low calorie. I'm about 1,500 calories, but I'm slowly gaining on that. I think I've suppressed my metabolism so much.

And because I don't have any muscle, like I just, you know, I I barely have any I I just feel like I can't eat without, you know, really gaining weight. And I know I need to eat to build to build to build Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. to build any muscle. So, you know, all this stuff up here. Uh Yeah. But we got to get you to feel feel it because if if you do the right things but you don't feel right about it, it's going to be very difficult uh to stick to.

So, and how do we get to how do we get there? Um you're going to have to not weigh yourself. Uh so, I'm going to need you to get rid of your scale. I mean, not I mean literally get rid of it. Not have a scale in your house. So, throw it away and not study yourself in the mirror. In fact, ignore your reflection in the mirror because it's going to mess with you. And you're going to have to consciously think about how you feel and think about your strength.

What I mean by how you feel is not like I feel gross, but try to pick out the the the strength, the energy, and the mobility. And you're going to have to consciously think about those things because your nature is to not your nature is going to be to think about how I look, the scale, and am I feeling fatter? Do I feel bloated? Do my stomach is full? Okay. So, so, so this is going to be you have to retrain your focus. What you focus on is what you see.

And there's lots and lots of data to support this. So, several times a day, I want you you're going to have to think about strength, think about energy, think about how much weight I'm moving, mobility, and just focus on that. And when you find yourself thinking about the other stuff instead of not thinking about that, good luck. It's like, don't think about a zebra. Now, you're thinking about zebra. is you're going to have to think about strength, think about mobility, think about energy, and then that slowly should get you to this point where you start to feel confident and go back to the gym.

Dietwise, you're going to have to completely ignore your systems, your your feeling of satiety and fullness. So, because uh your relationship to to that right now, if I if I tell you to listen to your body from that standpoint, you're going to keep eating little. little. little. So, you're going to kind of have to eat in an uncomfortable way. So, you're going to have to kind of seek that out a little bit. Like, I'm going to eat until I'm really full and then I'm going to eat until I'm really full.

Uh, now working with a coach would be very beneficial from for someone like you to kind of help you through this process. You can kind of uh outsource some of that trust. I don't know how feasible that is for you. I know you're about an hour and a half away away away uh from us. Uh, I'd like to invite you into our studio just to meet with us. Uh, you can listen to a live episode. I can introduce you some of our trainers. And even if you were to visit us every other month, uh, and meet a trainer here.

I think that would be beneficial. Um, or you could do something more consistent where you work with, uh, one of our coaches, uh, virtually and they can kind of help through this process. I think that would really, really be helpful. But helpful. But helpful. But yeah, that would be awesome. But I'm going to send you those two programs. I'm going to mail you a suspension trainer and then if you'd like I can have uh one of our coaches call you and then see if any of that works for you to be able to kind of walk you through this process.

That would be so great. Thank you so much cuz I just feel kind of much cuz I just feel kind of lost right now, you know, and but that would be a game changer. would be that would be a game changer. So I just oh my gosh, thank you so much. You're actually in a great place mentally. You're in the right place. You've you self-awareness is incredible. you know where you need to go. Uh you sounds like you're willing to outsource that to somebody else, guide you through that process.

We we'll take care of you. We'll take care of you. Listen. Thank you so much. I just You're going to do great. I do. I just want to be I just want to feel healthy, you know? Like it's not about like body image anymore. It's about like just being strong and healthy for my future and for my kids and to be a good example. You know, I've got two daughters and, you know, I want to show them what it's like to be a strong woman. And, you know, I don't want to be this weak little thing anymore.

You know, know, know, that's badass. That's badass. And that's an awesome idea. Elissa, if I had one of your daughters on here and I asked them, "How much do you love your mom?" What would they say? Oh, man. I think they love me a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I want you to look through their eyes at yourself and try to care for yourself like they would. and it's going to be counter to what you used to, but I think that'll help direct you uh in the meantime.

meantime. meantime. That's why I love your how do my daughters think of me? I love that being your goal. I love that it's not it's it's a selfless. It's you I want to show my daughters. That is what's going to motivate. That's what's going to put you through the uncomfortable times of when a trainer tells you, "I need you to eat 2,000 calories." And you're like, "Oh my god, that feels so much or I'm stuffed. I don't like it." And like if you just keep remembering why you're doing this, you're going to be fine.

That's right. You're going to get through this. This will be good. Absolutely. I've got my my 18-year-old daughter. Um, she's she's not going she's taking a gap year and she's here with me all the time and she asked me that. She's like, "Mom, we should start going to the gym." And I was like, "We should's she's really interested in it." So, I think that would be motivation, too, to, you know, include them them them process. Include them in this process. That support is going to help so much.

I'm going to have someone reach out to you. In the meantime, we're going to mail you the suspension trainer. Mhm. You'll get the two programs and then I hope to see you. I know we're not too far from you, so I hope we get a chance to meet you and you can come. Oh, I would love to come up and visit. I would love that. Awesome. Awesome. We'll set it up, Lisa. Thank you so much, guys. I really appreciate it. You guys are just the best.

best. best. Thank you. Be in touch. Thanks for everything you do. Take care. All right. Well, I'm glad that's that's uh that's good motivation. Great attitude. Great motivation. Great attitude. Perfect place. Great place. Wow, man. We got uh two today like Yep. You know, again, uh it seems so like the the simple answer, jump to 2,00 to 2,300 calories, lift weights three times a day or three times a week and like solves everything. But it's like that is the to get there. Any any severe challenge will battle you.

you. you. By the way, for people listening right now who are like, "Oh, it's just do this." this." this." Yeah. It's not, you know, you got your stuff. Everybody does that thing you can't stop. And the answer is stop doing it and you can't. That's what they're dealing with. And it's very difficult, but there is uh there is a light at the end of the tunnel. It's just a process. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Our next caller is Sarah from California. California. California. Hi, Sarah. Hi, Sarah. Hi, Sarah.

How you doing, Sarah? Hi. Hi, guys. Oh my god, I'm so pumped to be talking to you. This is crazy. Um, I'm so inspired by everything you've been doing. Like, it's so clear how much you want to help people. So, you guys have actually inspired me to go through the NASM certification and consider like a career change or a side gig in personal training down the line. So, thank you so much for everything you do. Yeah, thank you. How can we help you? Okay. So, um, my question, I'll just read it here.

So, I've been working out since I was 14 when I got my first gym me gym membership at a 24-hour fitness here in the Bay. Um, I'm 43 now. I know that I'm a bit orthorexic, and I definitely have an addiction to exercise, but I both look and feel great. I look better, I think, now. Um, and I'm more fit now than when I was in my 20s or 30s. Um, and I just never have like felt like I looked the way that I do before.

And I also just really love training and movement outside, running, cycling, hiking, walking, you name it. Um, but I definitely overdo it. Um, so my question is, is this going to for sure bite me in the ass at some point or do you guys think that I continue as is as long as I'm feeling great? And I guess I should also mention that, um, I' I've been using a variety of peptides for several years, um, which I know help me train better and recover better and faster.

So, I guess my hope is that the addition of these tools to my toolbox means I can do more and push a bit harder without the same repercussions, but um I'm curious what you guys think and I would love your thoughts. Let's let's peer a little into what the training and uh looks like. Like how how much training volume are you tracking steps? Like what's it look like for a week? week? week? Yeah, I mean it's like basically all of my free time I'm training or or you know a lot of it is outdoors, but five days a week I'm doing like an hour to an hour and a half of strength training is pretty intense.

Um and then like anywhere from 3 to 5 hours of just cycling or running or hiking like it's a lot. It's I mean when I say it out loud it actually sounds totally ridiculous, but like I love it too, you know? Oh, I just love being outdoors and I just I think mentally it helps my mental health a lot too and I just feel like I have a lot of my my best thoughts and ideas while I'm outside. So, there's that. But there's also just a compulsion too, right?

Which I mean I love I I love uh walking and hiking outside. That's awesome. Uh cycling and running can be okay. Can get intense though really quickly. So, but hiking and walking outside for mental clarity being outside. I'm all pro that so doing that uh strength training 5 days a week could be okay. Uh but if you say it's really intense and an hour and a half that that's that's a lot. Yeah, that's overkill. Way overdoing it. I'm So I'm So I'm So by the way you answer this question will help me determine if I can help uh with this.

So why do you think there's some orthorexia or compulsion? Uh Uh Uh because I can't remember the last day I didn't do like at least a few hours of activity activity activity and if I don't get that in um like I don't feel normal. Okay. How and how how do you feel about that? that? that? Um I mean right now I'm at a point in my life where it it's okay. Like I'm single right now so I don't have a partner I need to be giving time to.

I don't have kids. Um, but like what if that, you know, what if that happens soon or I switch jobs and I just literally can't do it? I think I'm gonna just feel awful and and and like that's that's not healthy, you know, to like not feel good or be freaked out on a day where I, you know, don't work out a lot. Like that's just that's not healthy. Like that's dependence. dependence. dependence. Yeah. So you feel like it's controlling you. you. you. Yeah, a little bit.

Okay. And I think for a long time I really convinced myself, no, it's just that I love it. But I'm like, especially actually since I've been listening to you guys, I've kind of been realizing, yeah, yeah, yeah, this isn't just that I love it. There's a little bit more to it. Good for you. A lot of people do. That's what people continue to say. And look, I I just, you know, um, forgive me for my brevity, but um, alcoholics love their alcohol. Uh, and so they they say they like it.

They enjoy it. And uh I think you're getting a little bit of awareness that this thing is controlling you, but it doesn't sound like you're at the place where you could change it yet because you're also saying, "I love it. I like it. it. it. It's like my favorite thing. I look great. I feel great. I feel great." But then you're like, "It's controlling me. This might be an issue." issue." issue." So I mean, I could tell you from the outside it definitely is an issue and you're doing way too much.

Uh the question is, can you change it? Do do you want to change it bad enough to to to eventually because eventually how you start this question is right eventually you'll be forced to it's going to bite you eventually hormonal bone stuff uh you you'll that that starts life is going to happen. Yeah. Yeah. And so the answer is yes. Eventually your body will force you to. It's a question of do you have the motivation to change it right now? Especially when you like the way you look, you like the way you feel, and and you say you enjoy all those things.

That to Sal's point, that's really tough to It's It really sucks to be forced to change it when something happens. That sucks. sucks. sucks. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. To change it ahead of time is hard, but is way better. Yeah, it's better. Yeah. Cuz what'll happen at some point is something's going to happen and you can't do all that stuff or something's going to happen physically or mentally and then you're going to be like oh my god I have to re yeah come out of it. But it could be a number of different things but at some point this thing that's controlling you that you're kind of like uhoh I think it's controlling me at some point it's you're going to be forced to have to make a decision and then that's the wor that's the hardest that's hard when it's like in your face.

where you're at now is actually an easier place to to make those changes. those changes. those changes. So, it really is up to how and you really have to talk about it in a way to yourself that's honest because what I hear and I know I hear this cuz I talk this way. Okay, cuz I know what you I know what you feel like. Okay, you are me. Okay, in this in this regard is I know I've heard a lot of Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. as it's coming out of your mouth, you're trying to uh give yourself escape like, "Oo, it's this thing that's controlling, but I love it.

Oo, it might not be so good for me, but I can do it. Oo, I but I look good and I feel good." And so, it's like you're afraid to say to yourself, "This is a problem and it needs to get fixed." Because if you say that, then you have to change it. So, you're like, "Maybe not." So, that's kind of where you're at uh with it right now. now. now. Well, are you at a place where you'd be open to even outsourcing it? In other words, hiring a coach to tell you what you need to do and then following it.

Just doing what they tell you. Yeah. I mean, here's another thing. Like, so I haven't always been as fit and looked as good. And so, being at a point where I finally feel like I'm like I love my body now. And this was not always the case, you know, and so I've been through different iterations of my body. And so, you know, would I be willing to totally scale back on exercise? Yes. if I was able to like mostly keep the body that I now have.

You absolutely can. You'll give you conception. That would actually be So, if I was coaching you, that's the easiest part. You've built the physique you like and you're like, Adam, I like the way I look. It's like, cool. Let me show you a way easier way to maintain that look. If anything, you'll improve. It will. You It's It does not markers 5 days, an hour and a half of training. Let me put it to you this way. you look as as fit as you do in spite of all the the wrong stuff that you're doing.

Right. Right. Right. And and you're putting a lot of peptide bandages and stuff like that on it to keep the ball rolling. Uh you'll actually look better. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh so if that's what you're afraid of. Yeah. It's that it's don't worry. Yeah. Yeah. No, you I mean that is what I'm afraid of for sure. Right. Because like I've been 25 lbs heavier and like didn't get looks and or compliments and now I'm like I'm at the gym and I'm like that crazy chick who's like busting her ass but I get complimented, you know?

I get women complimenting me on my arms which is awesome and I used to hate my arms. So like if I could keep all that and do way less. Yeah, I'm definitely like out of Sarah. Sarah, you're totally you're totally s totally s totally s Sarah. Sarah, listen to me. No, I don't do it for fun. I get do it for I don't do it for fun. I get no callina right here. Sarah, that's why wears that wife beater in the Sarah. I thought wife. It was like a wife.

You changed the name of it recently. recently. recently. Yeah. Wife pleaser. The wife, which sounds just as bad somehow. Rib Sarah, you're you're you're already a valuable person. person. person. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're already worthwhile. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All that outside whatever is it's meaningless. meaningless. meaningless. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're you're already you're already worthwhile. you're already great and you don't need all that. You really don't. And in fact, it's it's keeping you trapped. trapped. trapped. No. No. No. But if if you want, look, here's the deal, okay?

Cuz we'll answer your question. Are you going to like suddenly your body's going to change in a negative? No, it's not going to happen. Uh you you'll you'll get as great or better results with way less work. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um but I also don't want you to focus on that because that's also going to steer you in the wrong direction. So, uh, I mean, a coach would really be helpful, but you you've got to be in a place to where you're okay with that, where you where you're going to let go and be like, "Okay, this is really a problem I want to address." If you're not there yet, then it wouldn't help you.

you. you. Yeah, I think I'm in that that contemplation stage of change still, but I'm um I feel like I'm getting closer to closer to closer to to having a mindset of of readiness. You know what you could do? Try this. This is what I'm doing right now. So, because I've been on and off with this forever. Sometimes better, sometimes worse. I So, I started doing where every other week, uh, I don't do any So, this is for me. This wouldn't look like it for you, but for me, every other week I do zero to no almost no strength training and I just do cardio because that's the thing for me is you should say, he doesn't do cardio.

I just do walking. Okay. So, maybe it looks like this for you. instead of what you do every single day, maybe it's like, okay, on Wednesday and Friday, I'm cutting it way down and then wait and then see what happens. And then slowly step ladder yourself towards uh doing less. Maybe it's one day. Maybe it could be like, "All right, Fridays instead of doing an hour and a half of strength training and all this cardio, maybe it's like I'm gonna do nothing or I'm gonna just go for a hike or something like that and keep it light because you could also turn that into, you know, crazy." And just step ladder yourself.

For me, it's every other week because the that's that seems to be what I I can do right now. H H H how is your um thought process and your mental health as you go through this? He sucks at it, so I don't know why he's talking. You need you need a coach. You need a coach. That's that's what I I just started it. And so this is week uh two. So I'm just I just got into it. But what helped me was on the week I'm not strength training.

I'm uh listening to books that I'm really interested in. So I look forward to that. So I walk on the treadmill and I listen to a book because just doing nothing is too big of a bite for me. So I'm like, okay, so every other week I'm just So maybe there's something else that you're really interested in that you really like to do, whether it's a book or you go I you know, it might it's just something that's not exercise. Uh and then because not doing something is hard, but doing something else in replace of it is easier.

So maybe it's maybe it's yin yoga. Yin yoga would be great for someone. The hardest the hardest part, Sarah, if I was coaching you, the hardest part is I'm I'm going to tell you that I absolutely can keep the body or even better if you wanted, but I also simultaneously need you to let go of that at the same time. That's the hard part. So, it's like I can I can I could guarantee you as as the coach, I could say, "Hey, don't worry. I'll I'll keep this body the way it is or maybe even improve it, but I also need you to just trust me and let it go while we do this." And so that part, that letting go process, that's the hard part.

And that's the part that you have to to to separate from. That's what this guy is still struggling with is completely letting go of that and going a total different direction. He's easing himself in with the walking stuff. But so what my journey looked like years ago is like part of like getting into a whole different modality. Like let go of the jacked look. I look like I can go get that anytime I want. And you can too. You look at you've already proven that. You've proven you have the ability to go get that.

So now try and train yourself. Can I let it go? It doesn't mean be unhealthy and I'm saying get fat. I'm just saying let that focus go and focus something on something else for a while and know that you got that in your back pocket if you ever need to. That's the that's the growth part right here on your journey that you need to get through. And that on the other side of that is a healthier version of you, a fitter version of you and way less control and effort towards it.

are Sarah, how's do you how's your social life with friendships and stuff or does it all revolve around the gym? I mean, right now, yeah, it's there's not much. Um, but I just got back to the Bay after living abroad for a couple of years and also like I went to Burning Man for 10 years and so my previous life was like a bit of a partyier and all my friends love to party and I want nothing to do with that. So, I think I've just kind of shifted that all all my energy into like health and fitness, but now I've overdone it, you know.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean that that that's that's that's another that's another thing that could help uh is seek out kind of social community. community. community. Yeah. Social community. For me, it's my church. That's actually helped me quite a bit. Um and that's the other thing, too, because otherwise you have all this time on your hands and you're like, "Yeah, I'm going to go to the gym because I like doing that." I know. I know. I know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'd love to see you get Id love to see you get coached.

I know you say you're contemplating right now, but a good coach for a good season. I'm getting closer. Okay. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, if you ever if if you're like, "Okay, I'm ready to do that." You let us know. We got some great coaches here. You're not far from us either, by the way. So, you can you could even do uh personal training here on occasion. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like once a week or once every other week and actually come into the studio and work with one of our trainers.

Oh, that'd be awesome. I would love that. that. that. Would you? You want somebody to call you? you? you? Yeah. You know, why not? Yes. All right, let's do that and we'll see you cuz we're here. Get you down here, sir. Awesome. All right, guys. Well, thank you so much for your time and for everything you do. I appreciate it. You got it. Thanks. Okay, bye. Cheers. She also works for the enhanced games. Did you see that? I did see that. She does. She sees talent for the Shut up for the marketing.

Oh, that's cool. She Oh, that's good. I hope she comes down here then. Which also makes it more difficult because you're working. It's kind of a skewed environment. I mean, she's mean, she's mean, she's I know. Listen, if I if I didn't have kids and a wife and all that stuff, I I mean that I I know exactly I that's what I would do all the time. You got to find other things that uh you can replace it with. What are you talking about? You still already do.

I don't go I'm not 3 hours a day. Well, no. Okay. I'm saying if I had Yeah, but you never miss. Yeah, but it's my point is I'd be 3 hours a day if I didn't have even worse. Even more even more crazy. That's right. Yeah. No, it's uh I mean still at that place where this is where it's hard when again and I think this is the exact same challenge that you feel with it is you're healthy, you're fit, you look good. You know what I'm saying?

So it's it's really tough to tell somebody to break that when they have all these these positive things that they have felt from it and their body is not screaming at them. That's right. Um and and telling them they can't do that. But there's also other sides of this sometimes too. It's not just dysfunction on that side. you can become dis functional in your social and your That's why I asked her. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She probably doesn't have you can't work out that much and not have I mean and if you don't have that and you feel kind of lonely or and and what happens is that person ends up that type of person lots of friends and been close to like this.

You either don't or you find another person with the same issue of course and then you both obsess over it together. And that's why we see so many people in the fitness space that are both bikini competitor and bodybuilder, you know, together because they they share this addiction together because they can't date anybody else that as at all balance because doesn't work. So they have and no idea and they tell themselves they're so in love and they have all this in common when it's like yeah, you have this unhealthy relationship with exercise that's in common.

And so, got to break free of that or you'll have a really hard time connecting to somebody who doesn't want to take 3 hours of walk a day and hour and a half training sessions every single day and measure every food they eat. eat. eat. Totally. All right. I know you like that episode. If you did, check this one out. Stop doing three sets of 12 to build muscle and do this instead. You guys want to guess? Stop doing the three sets of 12 and do this instead.

Uh, with that intro, my guess is you're going to tell people to change the rep range up to Yeah. 5x5 or low rep range. Do you guys remember when you're going? Yeah. So, um, often times we get stuck in like a set count and a rep count or a range