US OPEN Champs: What The Best In The World Never Say Out Loud | Djokovic, Sabalenka, Osaka

Key Takeaway

When pressure, nerves, or self-doubt show up, stop trying to eliminate them. Name the feeling, remind yourself that it is normal, and redirect attention to the next controllable action: show up, practice, or take the next point. Build confidence through small evidence—keeping commitments on difficult days—rather than waiting for a trophy, promotion, or external validation to feel worthy. Today, write one sentence you will use when discomfort appears: “This is normal; I can still take the next step.”

Episode Overview

Jay Shetty speaks with tennis champions Aryna Sabalenka, Naomi Osaka, and Novak Djokovic about the internal work beneath elite performance. They explore accepting anxiety instead of resisting it, using disciplined action to build confidence, separating identity from achievement, recovering from setbacks, and sustaining practices such as visualization, mindfulness, and solitude.

Full Transcript

Transcript of US OPEN Champs: What The Best In The World Never Say Out Loud | Djokovic, Sabalenka, Osaka from On Purpose. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

talk to us about that selft talk because I think we forget that right now we're all so obsessed with the conversation online like we're looking at what Twitter's saying ex is saying we're looking at what social media on social media and then you forget that the real conversation is happening inside the champion's head exactly walk us through what that conversation looks like what are the ups and downs what are the shifts in that inner dialogue well I mean I think it's absolutely normal to feel nervous before big tournaments and I I think that every athlete feel nervous.

every athlete adopt uh adopting his um I don't know ability will he be able to do that again or like how it's going to go because you never know like uh sport is such a beautiful thing that you go out there and you don't know how you're going to feel will the will the game works like will will you feel great or better or what what you you'll have to deal with because you know people look from the outside and it doesn't doesn't know for example I don't feel myself surf like I don't like I feel uncomfortable doing something court and I have to like deal with that.

So before the tournament I prepare myself that I am ready to handle anything like I'm just talking that it's normal. I'm just trying to kind of like settle those those like thoughts in my head. Not by trying to like make them go away because I feel like the moment when you try to make things go away they actually like growing more and it it's it's like more and it's uh not easy to handle. So, I'm just trying to tell myself it's okay to feel that. It's okay to think that.

It's absolutely okay. Everyone thinks that. It's all about you going out there and fighting no matter what. And like constantly having this conversation in your head throughout two weeks. It's tough. Yeah. It's tough, but but I kind of like love it. Yeah. Yeah. You you've learned to enjoy it. No, I'm just so grateful to have opportunity to experience of that of all of that. Not everyone have this opportunity in life. So I'm just so grateful and I big opportunities is also like big uh uh big responsibility, big pressure.

But not everyone have that opportunity. So you got to be grateful for that. Yeah, that's beautiful. I you reminded me of that famous quote that says what you resist persists. That idea that if you're trying to get rid of a thought or trying to get rid of a feeling, it just expands. Exactly. and it takes up more space and as soon as you accept it, yeah, you're fine. When you reject it, it just gets bigger. It gets harder. But rejection, that's not the key. Absolutely. When when you accept that, of course, I'm of course it's natural to feel nervous.

Of course, everyone's feeling uncomfortable. Everyone's feeling stressed out. All of a sudden, it kind of calms you. Whereas when you think that, oh, I'm the only one. Everyone else looks so calm and confident, but I'm stressed out. That's why we all get I think that was my like my main mistake when I was just like starting playing tennis. I I thought that I'm the only one who feel that and I would like focus too much on that. So I would forget about like my opponent and I would struggle a lot at the beginning of my career.

But then the moment when I realized like and I that everyone experienced that and I started see that in my opponent and I was like okay then it's normal. Then we're both in the same situation. and we both dealing with the same things and it's all about who's going to do that better. So, it's actually like a trick I feel like uh like mind trick like just accept it. One of the things that I love talking to about with successful people, champions who who've been through it is like defining moments in their life.

You know, I feel like defining moments in every human's life are just it either propels you forward or it can, you know, slow you down or break you down. And for you, I feel like one of the biggest ones was losing your father. Like that is for anyone losing a parent is such a huge part of their journey. For you it's critical to your journey because it's the person who gave you what you love. Walk us through that moment in time. Well, I hope I'm not going to start crying right now, but it was [sighs and gasps] it was unexpectable.

It just happened like this. Um and uh it was it was a tough moment because I was so close to him. The reason is because we have similar personalities and we um understood each other much better. He knew what to tell me when I was like struggling on court, you know. Um I would just call him and he would just say a couple things and I would be like, "Oh, that makes sense." So losing him was a was a tough moment. Um but you know instead of like really going depressed I just decided to take it as you know like he's like here with me.

He's in my in my heart in my memory. Um he raised me I feel like the best way possible. Thanks thanks to him for you know like I feel like I'm the champion right now because of because of him and uh I know that he's here with me. He you know he support me. He takes care of me. He protects me. And um yeah, I took it as as a motivation to put the family name in the history. And thanks to him. Yeah. How how did you grieve at the time?

Like what was useful to you? Because I feel losing someone's always hard and there's no perfect way to grieve. But what what worked for you? What what did you have to do in order to process that? Well, I had to stay really strong because yeah, my mom was she it was tough for her to handle. She was a young woman to lose a husband that she loved. It was tough. So, I had to stay really strong and not really show my emotions. But I was crying a lot back then [sighs and gasps] when no one's uh saw me.

But the best way for me was to go on court and practice and train. It was the only time when I wouldn't think, you know, like the beginning of the practice till the end, I was just focusing on like tennis like hitting those like balls repetition after repetition. And then the moment the practice would stop, I would like constantly thinking like remembering like something from the past, start crying harder. Um that was the best way for me to go through it is like go out and and practice and practice and practice.

Yeah, I feel like you just break down straight after because it I mean I'm surprised you could even focus during the practice. That's impressive because there was Yeah. I don't know how actually I just figured that I went on on court start practicing I realized that okay this is the moment when I'm not thinking about that and I was I was training a lot. Yeah. [laughter and gasps] Yeah. You were trying to like channel it all into Yeah. Like just let it like go. Let it go because it's nothing you can do about you know.

I feel like in life there is like birth love and death something that you have zero control on. So I was like this was his journey. I was grateful that I was able to spend 21 years with with him and yeah I know that he's he's protecting me. Yeah. When did you start to feel successful and feel like you were a champion? Did you ever do you feel that way or is there I don't know. I I never I never think about that. I think for me success is the the discipline that you put in.

I think this is success like being able to be there every morning, every practice, doesn't matter how you feel, doesn't matter if you want it or you you don't want to be there, you know, because there is days when you just don't want to go and work or practice and do your job, right? And if you're still there, this is success. This is mean that you you you love what you do and you want to be successful. That's a great definition of success. I love that.

That's such a great answer. Success is actually showing up even when you don't want to, when you don't feel like it. That's really what it is. I think that's why I'm able to, you know, hold these trophies because I was there like no matter what since like a very young age, you I remember going to practice not feeling well but I don't know someone was just something was just driving me like I was just going there I loved it and that's why I say that people have to find something they love because when you love something what like what you do that's what pushes you like to go to do to to do better every day like and to improve to that's important.

I love what you're saying and I'm I'm thinking about some of the things I think my audience struggles with sometimes. Let's say you find some people struggle to find something they love. Do you think that's because we have the wrong view of it? Like I think some people think if you love something you'll always like it, but what you're saying is you could love something and there'll still be days where you don't like it, which I think is a really important point. Yeah. Does that make sense?

Like I feel like so many people give up on things because they feel like okay, I don't want to go there. it means that okay I'm done and I think um this is actually the moment where you can make the like breakthrough you know because you yeah like you said you're absolutely right you can love something but at the same time you can experience those days when you just don't want to do that and it's normal it's normal it just it's it's a routine so it's important to if you love something at first and you you felt happy and it like all of the sudden you're like okay I'm I don't want to go there.

It's it's doesn't mean that you have to change something, you know, you have to change your job. You just have to go through this period. It's it's like in every relationship, it's not perfect all the time. You have to, you know, go through something. Did you ever think about giving up? Like was there ever a time in your life where you were like, I think this is it. Yeah. There was a moment in my career, [sighs] when was that 3 years ago when I was double faulting.

I couldn't like surf. I don't know what happened with me. Like I couldn't surf. Just something happened [gasps] and it wouldn't work. And I was I was still playing. I was I actually ended up year uh in top 10 somehow without the surf. But I was like really I was really close to just quit because I was like I don't know how to fix it. Like we tried everything like psychology. Um, we tried everything like like like going like through repetitions like practicing like uh different like everything.

We tried everything and we couldn't fix it and I was like okay I'm about to quit. Uh but then we yeah we hired the by Mahoneyani guy and he helped to understand some details and and you know like so that's what I'm saying like it was the moment for me to like you know to stay strong to go through it to like never give up you know like how we say [laughter and gasps] and I didn't quit and after that I was able to win my first grand slam and that moment was crazy crazy crazy crazy emotional Yeah.

I feel like that's always the case where it's like you love something. Yeah. Something about it is not working. You're struggling. You're not getting it right. And that's the point where you're required to be a bit more dedicated. Like it's like that's where the unlock is, right? Yes. I feel like uh universe, God, you call however you want it. Send those challenges because you can handle it and for a reason, you know, like everything happens for a reason. And that what actually kept me in sport because I was like okay this is happening for a reason.

I need to change something you know and and I think you have to go through these tough challenges to see to see why why it happened to you. It's not only about sport in everything in life you know. Yeah. And I feel like those are the moments that give you confidence and courage like when you overcome something which every and I think people forget how much they've overcome. Yeah. Yeah, like I love that you just said like I've been just showing up since I was a little kid.

Like you know, you've been showing up for so many years and I think people think confidence is how you show up today or winning a trophy or it's like no no no like think about it and everyone has showed up in their life like the people that are going to work for their kids for their partner. Like people have been showing up and if everyone could think of all the times in their life where they had the courage had the confidence to show up even when they didn't want to you're going to feel a lot more of that today rather than waiting to win to feel confident.

I think confidence it's it's it's a it's a process, you know. You're building this confidence like step by step like by waking up the like the early morning by showing up uh somewhere you didn't want to, you know, like and like slowly building your confidence. It's all about like this little little steps. I really meant it. I've been wanting to talk to you for so long. I thought your open sharing and vulnerable sharing of your mental health journey was so brave and courageous. What does it feel like looking back on that 3 years now?

Honestly, I'm a little bit embarrassed on how I went about it, but I'm really glad that I did open up. It created a pathway for more discussions to be had. And I also feel like athletes were seen as more than just I guess stone cold in a way. So yeah. Why why embarrassed though now? I don't know. Like I I just since I go on things like I go about things on a whim a little bit. I I sometimes make decisions without fully thinking them through all the way because it's such an emotional thing.

And when I was in that moment, like I was living it. And I think everyone could see that I was clearly living it, but I feel like maybe I could have been a little bit better with my words or how I presented myself. Well, I think it came across really beautifully. And for whatever it's worth, I felt that it really gave so many more athletes the permission to also open up, to also share how they were feeling. And you're so right. I think it humanized a lot of athletes that are often just seen as these hype but in Hindi they're really spectacular.

So no I I I can relate to that. Your dad at least from what I read your dad wanted to train you because he was reading about Richard Williams and what he'd done with the Williams sisters and I think at one point he even said that I had a blueprint. I knew what I needed to do and I know I had to follow it. What was it like living that blueprint and with your dad? How aware were you of that when you were growing up? I heard of that story later on also.

Um, but yeah, I think living in that blueprint was something that I just grew used to. Um, it was kind of just me and my sister and my dad on a tennis court for like at least 8 hours during day. Yeah. Um, so it was it was kind of one of those things where I began to think to myself like it would be very weird if I didn't make it and I had no choice to because this was, you know, this was my life and um I was just so dedicated towards it.

But I find it really funny that he said that there is an exact blueprint. Have you ever asked him about any questions about that time when he was training you for eight hours a day and what was going through his mind and what were his emotions? My dad's kind of a stoic guy so he doesn't really talk as often and when he does it's like to randomly crack a joke. The family all had a dream and we all were trying our best to achieve it and um it's kind of interesting to look back on it because it wasn't that long ago.

What what was the feeling like when you won your first Grand Slam at the US Open? I think when I was growing up, I had dreams of playing Serena in a in my first Grand Slam final, if even a Grand Slam final. So, it it felt like a dream came true, but at the same time, like all the circumstances surrounding that was not a dream come true. And it was I don't know like some people didn't think it was like a clean victory and I felt like I had to constantly prove people wrong and you know that situation was a little unfortunate.

Um but I'm glad I won the Australian Open right after that. But in that moment it was a very very strange mixture of emotions. What did you turn to in that moment? Because you've just won something but there's all that feeling. How do you kind of reconcile that? And now when you're looking back, how have you kind of processed that? You know what's funny is if you asked me this like 3 years ago, I definitely would have started crying. Oh wow. For a very long time, I didn't process it because I didn't want to.

Just I'm the type of person that I'll keep my head down and just keep working hard and, you know, hopefully I'll get to where I want to be. But for that being the first Grand Slam and that kind of being the introduction into like the world um for non-tennis fans, it was definitely really difficult for me and I think no amount of media training could have pro um like processed me for that. Why would you have cried 3 years ago? I just have this very vivid memory of winning going back to my hotel and the US Open is special because um you kind of get back to your hotel if you have a night match at like 1:00 a.m.

or something like that. It's crazy. I've been Yeah. Yeah. doing treatment um because I was going to go play a tournament in Tokyo right after that and I was just reading comments of people saying that I didn't deserve to win or like I didn't win fairly and I don't know it just it just really sucked. M how how's your life changed for you from the inside becoming a mother and you know like you said just living this disciplined focused every day kind of looks like the same building up to win you know four grand slams and now you know living a very different life I'm guessing every day is definitely not the same like what's changed for you how's that affected your identity and even self-perception becoming a mother has definitely changed my life a lot Um, internally I feel I've become a lot more patient.

Um, and also in a weird way more carefree. I think there is a lot of things that um, used to bother me in the past or I used to hold on to and now I just kind of see them as I don't know pointless. Maybe pointless is a little bit too big of a word. But um, like what? [sighs] I think you won this rally. Um, I'll take that. I'll take it. One of the biggest things for me was that my whole identity as I knew it was being a tennis player.

So, I would I guess value my my life or what my value was as a person on whether I won or lost. And now, um I don't know. I'm not saying being a mother is my entire being, but I see that there's so much more to life and there's so much that I'm able to, I guess, give to another person in regards to how they feel. Like my daughter, she smiles so much when I'm around her and it just makes my day. So, I no longer really feel like, you know, my life is over if I lose a tennis match or something like that.

It's actually quite profound to hear that because I can imagine that when you work that hard at something and you become as good as you are at that thing, it becomes really natural for you to put all your self-worth and all your self-esteem into it and then now your whole life revolves around it. The way people speak to you, the way people introduce you, the way you know every conversation becomes about that. How have you detached from like being ranked number one and then being like well now my life is moving like has that been a part of that?

How do you how do you detach and disconnect from that kind of strong identity and how it was made? I think it's been a series of learning events. Um, and I can't necessarily name to you what happened because in some ways I feel like I just woke up one day and this clicked or I just woke up another day and another thought clicked. I feel like I've been really fortunate to have um I guess people that care about me and they've kind of reinforced the idea that you know this isn't the like main factor of your life.

Yes, this has helped you like be in positions like sitting here right now talking to you, but um it's not your entire self worth. Yeah, it's it's that weird balance, isn't it? It's like how do you stay competitive and also be content because you don't want to be lost being so competitive that your competitiveness becomes constant comparison. And we always hear the old cliche of well compete against your old self. Do you find that to be true now that you're playing tennis again after being a mom?

Like, is that something you're having to do? Or do you disagree and you actually think it is still about being competitive on the court? You know what's funny is I think I spent most of this year chasing my old self or my former shadow. And um I don't necessarily think that's the way to go. I think, you know, you were who you were and now you're a more beautiful, more mature version of that. And it would kind of be doing your own self a disservice to constantly compare.

And I don't know, I think there's beauty in stepping into the present and looking um towards the future. So, I no longer compare myself to my old version. And I I don't know. I I try to find myself more excited for what I could be. What does that look like sometimes when you kind of get into that? What's pulling you? What vision comes to mind? I think the vision that comes to mind isn't necessarily like winning as many trophies as I can, which that would be great and I I'm hopeful that that will happen in the future.

But I guess being happy to learn more, to meet new people, to uh learn from them. Um, and just learn more about myself. Yeah. It's it's so interesting how we still feel we can tell people what to do and when it's right for us to know what's right for them and and this kind of view of like, oh, well, I know what's best for you right now without living and walking in your shoes. you've you've experienced a lot of that like kind of like snapback culture and that feeling of like people kind of you know I've seen some interviews where I just felt I felt embarrassed for the person asking you but I felt worse for you that someone would even ask you questions like that and you're awesome cuz you will just call them out and you're not worried about like you know making it known how how have you got good at doing that because I think so many people would get scared or be shy or be but you you know you're okay with the fact of like hey I don't think that's a great question to ask, you know, which I respect.

I don't know. I feel like my personality type is very honest. Like I I pride myself on being very straightforward and honest, and that's kind of what's gotten me in trouble quite a couple times. But I guess when we're doing a press conference, I see the people on the other side of the table as humans. And I would say that's also where the line started to get blurred for me a little bit is because I've been doing press conferences since I was like 16 17. And then um obviously when I became to when I began to become a little bit more known, more and more people entered those press conferences and I felt like they weren't treating me like I was a human.

Um, it was more like let's ask her a question to get this like oneliner or this article grab. So that's kind of where I started to become a little bit fearful. I think people can see that I became a little bit more closed off. It's almost like the day we accept that you can't avoid a thought, even if it's not peaceful, is the day you find peace because you just realize that you can't keep resisting it and you can't push it away and then all of a sudden it loses its power on you.

I don't know if that resonates or makes sense at all. Yeah, I would say it definitely makes sense. I think even trying to avoid a thought makes it much stronger for me. I I found myself often [gasps] trying to meditate um when I have a lot of thoughts. I I love listening to ocean noises or rain. I think water has a very powerful effect on me and I don't try to push thoughts away. I try to welcome them and not solve them, but figure out why they're coming in an abundance.

When did you start meditating? Um, I think honestly before my first US Open win. Wow. Yeah. What how did you get introduced to it? I didn't really get introduced to it. I just began noticing like I really enjoyed rainy days and I began wondering what was the cause of that and why did it cause me so much peace. And um I knew grand slams were um particularly first rounds, they were very stressful and so I just started listening to rain noises um I guess the night before match.

That's pretty awesome. Is it something you still practice now or has it evolved at all? No, it's definitely something I practice now. I have a app on my phone um that also does brain waves while um having the water noises and I listen to it every night. We've been talking a lot about like disconnecting and detaching from previous versions of oursel. Uh you've talked about how like getting your mom to like, you know, not work as hard was such a big goal for wanting to become a successful tennis player.

What was it like when you reached that goal when you could actually relieve her of all that pressure? It was a very joyful day. Um, but at the same time it was a little difficult for me because it was a goal that I've set um for myself since I was very young and I almost felt a little lost like I had to immediately set a new goal for myself. I mean it was awesome to see her not work anymore. Um, but just that like immediate race to set a new goal for myself and to set a new standard was something that um, I struggled with for maybe a couple days.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I can imagine it being harder than that because I feel like that's such a strong why, like such a strong purpose of wanting your mom not to have to work that hard. And that has so much meaning to it. It has so much gravitas to it. Often goals are like, "Oh, I want to win something or I want to get somewhere." And then when you make it about service or helping your mother or helping someone, it almost gets so much deeper. I can imagine it's really hard to find a goal that deep again.

Have you been able to find a new goal that feels that deeply rooted again? Not really. Um I I think for me most of my childhood was wanting my mom to stop working because I rarely saw her um unless it was dinner time. It was in a way I think me trying to see my mother more often. And once I accomplished that, then it became more winning or making history or being the first Asian number one, stuff like that. And obviously meaningful. Yeah, they're meaning a little more shallow, but still meaningful.

Um, meaningful, but yeah, I think now, you know, I I do have meaningful goals. Maybe they're just not as touching as, you know, retiring my mom. But I'd love for my daughter to reach an age where she can see me play and kind of understand everything that's going on. You'll have to keep playing. I definitely have to keep playing for a little while longer, but I think, you know, I've learned so much throughout the year, so I'm excited to learn more. Are you excited for her to get on the court?

Would you like her to play as all? People ask me this all the time and I think before I had her, I said definitely not. Um, but I I think now like you know if she's interested about the sport, I I'd want her to learn and she has a racket that she loves to swing around. I love that. When you were going through your when you announced that you weren't going to play and you took your break from tennis and competitive tennis for for some time, what were you actually dealing with?

like what what were you actually experiencing from a mental health perspective? Like what what did that look like for you? I'd say the the French open break. Um what I was dealing with at the time, a lot of shame, which I talked to you about, like feeling embarrassed, um feeling ashamed, like going against everything an athlete stood for, which is like, you know, fake it till you make it. um or don't show the other person, you know, any cracks in your armor. Honestly, just feeling very alone.

I think tennis, of course, for me, I don't play doubles, so it's a solo sport and I don't necessarily have, you know, the most friends on tour. So, I didn't really know what public reaction or reaction in general was. I remember after I pulled out of the French Open, I flew um back home to LA and I just stayed in my house for maybe a week or two and I didn't I just like Instacarted and Uber Eats everything because I didn't want to see the outside world.

So, I would say going to the Olympics after that changed my mindset a lot. Um, because there were so many athletes that thanked me and I felt so much shock because I I didn't know that I was helping anyone and I almost kind of went into the Olympics thinking like people are going to, you know, think that I'm like the worst athlete of all time. What was it that was weighing on you that even made you want to share the decision? like what what were you going through that was so hard for you to play and perform at that time?

The emotions at the time felt so heavy and I'm trying to like recreate, you know, the exact emotions that led to the decision, but I remember I won the US Open, won the Australian Open, was trying my best to like win the French as well. And um historically I don't have like the best clay record, so a lot of press were asking me about that. And um leading up into it, I wasn't doing amazing, but I wasn't doing terrible either. But I just was so stressed out going into the tournament that I didn't want to answer questions about it anymore cuz it was like a constant everyday thing and I just wanted to focus on, you know, what I could do.

It just kind of got to a breaking point because I remember saying I wasn't going to do media and then that kind of blew up in my face everywhere and it became such a big deal and I didn't know why. I just felt really bad because the tournament was very upset and I kind of felt like, you know, like people weren't focusing on the tennis anymore. It was just focusing on who's not doing press, why is she not doing press and so I just decided to leave.

Wow. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that, by the way, because I think it's Yeah. Just as I'm listening to I'm thinking about it, like when you look at movies, actors make a movie and then they do a press run and you're talking about a movie that you've recorded like in the past or you filmed in the past. Music's the same. You record an album, then you go and talk about it. This is the opposite way. Like you're being asked about it before you go on the court and then obviously after as well.

And I can imagine like you just want to be focused and I I mean, you know, I don't do anything of any similar pressure, but I can think about even when I'm just going on stage to give a talk or a presentation or even an interview like this and I know how much I need my downtime and my personal time to prepare and get my mindset right and this isn't a competition. It's not stressful in the way the games are physically or mentally or anything. And so I I can imagine that that becomes really difficult.

Were there some athlete who were the athletes that came up to you and uh said something to you at the Olympics that made you feel a sense of I mean I think you already knew you did the right thing but people who came and reminded you that it was definitely a good decision. A lot of like female athletes um I got a really nice message um from other tennis players as well and I felt like I went from feeling very alone to not feeling so alone at all.

So, um, it was it was really nice. A few moments ago, you were talking about how like there was this feeling of, you know, being forgotten and then taking a break. So, like having the courage to take a break when you have the fear of being forgotten is probably one of the most courageous acts for anyone in the world, whatever they do. How have you kind of been able to make that decision and been able to reconcile that for yourself? I think it's a process that's kind of been sped up by the events of my life.

Um, I feel like those two things are maybe something that should have been spread out throughout years, but I just happened to put it together. I don't know. I've won four grand slams. I've been very fortunate to light the Olympic torch. There's probably some more that my agent wants me to say, but I I don't know. Those are the things that come to my mind. And I've in a way accomplished so much more than I thought I would. and I want to accomplish so much more.

But at the same time, like I needed to separate myself as a person. I I think I told you I've been playing tennis since I was three. So that's the only identity I know of myself and I needed the break to figure out who I was as a person. And now I I hope I do and I think I do. But I'm able to stand tall and be confident and um I don't know, be proud of myself for that. Yeah, I I think that's the greatest accomplishment.

I really do. I hearing you speak today and I'm just so excited for everyone who's going to listen to recognize that the day we're not defined by our careers is it's so interesting how society became defined by what we do at one point and the question became what do you do? And then that's how we introduced ourselves. And even if you look at last names at one point, they all became about a career like baker and blacksmith and whatever. All these names became our last names because they were our occupation.

And so they became our total identity. And it's so interesting to think about how even in today's society, our worth, our everything is defined by what you do for a living. And so to be able to go beyond that as young as you are and as early as you are, it's I think it's a really powerful place to be and only good can come from it. It's uh it's pretty remarkable. What has it taken to become NovakJovich? Like what has it actually taken to become you internally?

You know, you you mentioned that I took a lot of the time and attention to dedicate myself to the internal work. And you know, I've been blessed and really lucky in a certain way to be surrounded with certain people at the very early stages of my career and my life that have directed me into this direction of self-care of holistic approach of multidisiplinary approach to the preparation to the prevention to the recovery both physical mental emotional you know, and at that time because I was so young, I didn't understand that and and it didn't need to be explained to me in depth at that point.

I trusted, you know, my tennis mother as I like to call her. She passed away 13 years ago, but she was the one that really introduced this holistic concept to me. you know, we were I was going, you know, obviously to school and then I was only 9 years old and 910 and I was training with her maybe two or three times a week individually tennis and then I would have group sessions and my parents were you know were trusting her enough to allow her to participate directly into my upbringing basically.

So she also educated me off the tennis court as well. So she took me very often uh at least two times per week to her house where we would look at the tapes of all the greats both male and female tennis players. That's where my impersonation started. You know people, you know, still to this day asked me, you know, when are you going to do the imitations impersonations? And you know, I haven't done it. I've done it early in my career and it was fun. It was viral and people liked it.

And then I received a little bit of an evil looks in the locker room and I kind of felt like, you know, maybe I'm stepping over the line. inside. That's why I stopped. But that's where it started. And I was like I was really trying to adapt all of the great things that I could see. And I have a kind of a photogenic memory. And I'm a very visual person. And that was something that was kind of expected that is kind of common as well what you do with kids, you know, or or with young athletes, right?

You watch videotapes, you try to analyze, you try to talk. But then she had me listen to classical music. And she said it's very important that you do that almost on a daily basis. Listen to classical music while you are writing your journal while you are you know preparing for bed or any time of the day but particularly those times. And you know I liked it. I didn't understand the purpose of it but you know I liked it. And so we would look at the tapes and we would listen to this music and then we would read poetry and then we would do a visualization practice.

At that time she it was not presented to me as such but she would just say in a very simple way that would be understood by a a boy a 10-year-old boy just close your eyes and think about how you want to play tennis and think about when you're your happiest. And so it started at a very early age and I'm so eternally grateful to her for instilling this in me and teaching me you know how to see life basically and understand that tennis is not as an individual sport of course is also different because you don't have anyone to replace you if something goes bad you know during the match you have to figure out the way so I think it requires more responsibility from you on a daily basis to prepare yourself for the biggest battle internally and also externally of course with your opponent and with everything that is happening around.

But you know so it taught me to really understand that tennis is not only about hitting a tennis ball over the net and counting score and dreaming about these achievements of winning Wimbledon as our holy grail of tennis. But it's it's more than that. And and I can use tennis as a platform to evolve into a better human being. At that point, I didn't understand that. But then as I was growing older and becoming more mature, I I started to understand the importance of doing all of these practices and I started to expand on each of these topics that that I was going through with her.

And then, you know, I started going into yoga. I started going into the movement into Christianity or to a Christian. I'm very proud of my religion. But at the same time, I am very open to you know embrace anything that can teach me you know from other religions and from the spirituality as a whole. So I'm very curious by nature. So I was really always looking for new ways to improve myself and improve my life on this planet, you know, and I was very lucky to be basically have that space also from my parents.

It's a kind of a self-discovery through the self-care through tennis really consumed most of my life. Um I mean still does not to that extent of course I mean I have two kids I have family and other businesses and other things that interests me. So I'm you know I'm balancing right now between tennis and the other stuff and I'm kind of making that transition slowly. you know, I still play professional tennis and I still experience my worst self on the court and my best self. And so going back to your comment at the beginning where you said, you know, you're one of the the athletes that really have immersed himself into the spirituality, into understanding the holistic approach and so forth and and the mental health, I would say yes.

But I'm still surprising and shocking myself on how much I actually need to still work on that. And I still quote unquote don't know enough about that world. And it was really hard for me to accept that. You know, I thought, you know, since 10, I basically started working on that and and growing the foundation. But it has evolved and has transformed so much for me in terms of how I see myself, how I see the world. And I thought, you know, maybe when I was at at the peak of my career and, you know, I felt like I'm unbeatable and I I feel like I could do anything, you know, I kind of walking on the water.

We all experience that in in in our own lives in certain way. And it's a great feeling, but then the ego takes you places where it's it's hard to come back from. And maybe you shouldn't come back from that. Maybe you're trying to find a balance, find the optimal measure that really works for you. But it it took me time to really accept the fact that what I have learned, what I have mastered, and what I'm doing on a daily basis for the last 20 years or more is not necessarily a guarantee that I'll always find a way and that will always work for me in this particular time of my life and circumstances that I'm facing.

So that's a huge revelation for me because and I'm still trying to get a grasp on it and and understand all of these factors that are in play that are challenging me on a daily basis. And when I talk from this perspective, it's a beautiful journey that I'm trying to embrace. But when you're immersed in the dark moment, it's it's kind of hard to to really get out of that. Do you feel like in your career you've achieved everything you set out to as a tennis player?

Uh yes and more than that and at the same time I still want to do more and I know that that comes in a big part from a good place meaning from a place of purpose inspiration motivation love for the sport passion to make people happy when they watch me if I'm doing that and I I have a feeling that I am by still actively being on the tennis tour and having my tennis career active tennis career still spreading that light by playing tennis and inspiring younger generations.

That's something that that comes from a good heart, a good place. But what comes from maybe a uh I would say not necessarily a bad place but less of a good place. I have identified that as well is my feeling of not being enough. And that goes back to my very very beginning of my life and my relationship particularly with my father and not being not doing enough, not being good enough, etc., etc. So, so now that I'm talking about it, I kind of get emotional about it because it's still deep inside of me and it's kind of the battle that I that I also go through often because a lot of people even closest people in my life ask me, you know, what more do you want?

you know you have achieved everything what do you want what why why do you keep going and I tell them the the good part that I told you that I still really strongly feel it's inside of me that and I feel like as long as I have the capacity or or ability to compete for the biggest titles in in my sport I want to keep going and also partly the part that I didn't mention that inspires me to keep going is to test my limits mentally and physically Cuz when I was starting to break through into professional tennis, I remember when you reach your 30, you start counting your days to your retirement.

Like after 30, you know, that's it pretty much. Even though there was some exceptions like Jimmy Connor is the legend of our game. He played I think semi-finals or finals of of US Open when he was 40 and you know still still you know dominating the tour. So there were very but very few exceptions. Nowadays it's different. Why? Because I think the care for the body has improved so much. I mean now not only top 10 or 15 guys or girls on the tour have like multiple people in their squad to take care of them.

You have top 50 people that are taking care of them. It's due to the improvement of course of the conditions for the players and you know we earn more across the board. So, it gives you it allows you to hire more people that would take care of your body. And I think that it's also a a kind of a a curiosity from my side. How how far can I go? You know, I'm I'm 38 this year, you know, how long can I push my own limits?

And I don't feel like I do have limits. And I feel like the limits are normally constructs in our mind. I feel like it's it's reinventing yourself constantly. You know for me I've had this kind of upbringing had a great foundation and you know I've achieved incredible [clears throat] things. I was dreaming of becoming number one in the world and becoming a Wimbledon champion and that was my dream. I achieved that dream within two days I won Wimbledon and at the same same day became number one in the world in 2011 in front of my family in front of president of Serbia who was there.

I mean it was with the welcoming of hundreds of thousands of people on the way back. It's just, you know, once in a lifetime type of experience. And when you do something for the first time, obviously that big, it's just like you're you're flying to the moon. I mean, you're not you it's a kind of an old out of body experience. But then I I felt like I had to set new goals and cuz I was, you know, at the at the time 2011, I was 23 years old, 24.

So, okay, what do I do next? you know I feel like I'm at you know peak of my powers and I want to so so then I want to win multiple slams then I want to win all slams at once then I want to win gold medal for my country then I want to make history and so forth so forth so I think goal oriented mind particularly in sports but also in business or anything really I think is super important because the clarity in from my experience is something that is essential to have also peace of mind and to have a calm heart that you know what you're doing and that you set your goals, your short-term goals, your long-term goals, and you know exactly the strategy that you need to implement to achieve them.

And you surround yourself with the people who are supporting you, but also people who are telling you what you don't want to hear, you know, giving you constructive criticism or maybe giving you non-constructive criticism and then putting you very down. But that's also part of the journey. It's also learning how to get up like a phoenix and rise and and and try to develop a thick skin so to say. So it's it's a constant process really. I I don't see myself fully satisfied if if that's maybe a shorter answer because I have that part of me which is like uh you know I think I can still do more but I'm the other side of me is like of course I'm fully I'm happy and I'm proud and in a way I can't wait one day for me to reflect on everything but while I'm still in my active career I don't have time.

Tennis has a longest season of all sports. January starts January, ends almost end of November. And of course, I earn my right in a way to be selective with tournaments where I play. So that's what I'm doing. I'm not playing as much. I'm focusing on the big ones. And I'm trying to incorporate all these other things inside of my career and basically expand the platform and use my voice for other things than just the tennis court. And I'm, you know, super blessed to be in a position that I am, but as I said, it's a constant journey and process.

Yeah, I really appreciate you being honest about your experience with your father because I think that pretty much anyone who goes off to do something successful externally, all of us and everyone was channeling some sort of internal inadequacy or an internal feeling of not being enough. as you said and I wanted to ask when did you first become aware of that that you had that feeling of not being enough right and how have you helped that evolve in a in the healthiest way possible what has been that journey of almost having to live with it because it's there but not letting it be your guiding light well you're right it makes sense because I think if you use it as the right fuel it can actually serve as a great motivating factor right it can it can push you.

It can, you know, stimulate you to extract the the most amount of necessary energy uh on a daily basis to achieve your goals and to basically live your dream. I think for me it started really as something that was inevitable as a part of the environment that I was in. I touched upon that a little bit in our conversation five six years ago. My upbringing with several wars and sanctions and embargo and poverty and everything. So you know from a very young age I was basically forced to mature very quickly because I'm a I'm a oldest of the three brothers.

I have two younger brothers. So as an oldest son to my father, I was basically kind of in a position where I had to be informed very early on, particularly the age of 11, 12 when when we had that bombing and the war and sanctions that state that we are in as a family or as people of of my country, the situation, the circumstances, my father had to bring it forward to me in a very clear, mature way. So, you know, one of the most impactful moments of my upbringing and my childhood is when he brought 10 Deutsch marks, and I've said this story many times, which is equivalent to $10.

And he said, "This is all we got for our family of five as living in a super small apartment." That's where it hit me. It was like, "Okay, now I have to take the means in my hands as a 12-year-old boy in whatever way I can. At least what I can do is support my mother." maybe from some of the the burden that she has during the day of taking care of my younger brothers and that's where it also hit me that [clears throat] not having success is not an option like I have to succeed it's basically a matter of existence a survival of my family so I think it started there and then over the years it has obviously transformed or evolved into different kind of form but I think that and also my relationship with my father often times because of maybe lack of patience of my father or of people around because everyone saw that I have a talent.

I was coming from Serbia that had no tennis tradition, no tennis culture. We are a nation of a team sports. Uh we are definitely a sporting nation. We love sports but team sports. And at that point during ' 90s it was about survival. People were watching sports but there was not much support for the sports. It was particularly not tennis a very expensive sport at the time. I chose the most difficult sport for my parents in most difficult time for our nation and for my family.

[snorts] So often times I wouldn't travel because we didn't have money and then you know obviously as you can imagine tennis federation didn't have you know money to support me. So my father had to go and beg and then he was also borrowing money from unfortunately even some criminals at the time during '90s and then they would you know they would tell him it's funny story right now but at the time it wasn't funny particularly for him but you know he would go and he said first time I was going to go to United States to play I was 15 years old I was going to play like big junior events here like prince cup and orange ball they're the biggest ones under 16 and under 18 and also So more importantly, I was I was going with my father hopefully to get the sponsorship or, you know, get recruited by one of the big agencies, IMGs or or whatever.

So he went for ask for money because we didn't have so he went to ask for $5,000. And so this criminal people that you could borrow money from because banks obviously would not give it to you. And then they said, you know, he asked him, you know, are you how much are you in rush? And he's like, "Listen, I'm asking this money from you because of my son. He's playing tennis. We're going in America. You know, I'll return this money within whatever they agreed on, one or two months, whatever it is, 3 months." He says interest rate was 15%.

But because you are in rush, it's 25. [snorts] So my father was like, "Okay, you know, I'll take it because I have no other option." So, and I can only imagine the stress that he was going through and trying to turn this money where people were really car chasing him, shootings in our capital town, stuff that my father went through, you know, to to really not only survive himself, but to actually allow all of us to live and protect us and to allow me to live my dream and to play the most expensive sport at the time for my country is something that I'm eternally indebted.

I cannot there's no money or there's nothing that can return the favor so to say. So of course my father's always my my hero for that and my champion but you know feeling of not enough because of that stress and what things that he was going through and then it was hard because he was giving me also hard time if I wouldn't play well and it's like and then I I understood but at the same time I was afraid I knew what I have to do but you know it's hard for me to deliver it when you need it's like okay you need to win no matter what type of situation.

He wasn't telling me that but that's how it felt and that felt like that for years. So that's why I say that the success that I have achieved is not only due to my father or my parents or myself. It's also the divine higher force. I strongly believe that there was an intervention and there still is. There's higher forces in power that were helping me in some of the most difficult moments in my family as well. I am a man of faith and I really truly believe in God and a higher spiritual force that intervenes in the most difficult moments if you open your heart, if you pray and if you believe in it.

So I felt it on my own skin. Jay, to be honest, I really don't know how I won certain matches. I cannot explain it. Even with my team after I would finish a grand slam final against Roger Feather in 2019 Wimbledon when he was a far better player. I saved some match points and I came off the court all stats were going his way. I won the match and I just said, you know, and I wasn't playing well. I wasn't feeling well on the court and I was just like struggling and scrambling and trying to stay out there, stay alive.

And I won in the end in one of the most epic finals in history of tennis. And then you know I told to my parents and my family and my my team and said and my wife I said I don't know how I won this match. I have no idea. At the same time I do know deep inside that there there's that connection happening and that that there's also that help. So there there's a mix of things. It's really hard to explain. Sometimes there's this divine power that really if you allow it, if you believe it, that really helps you come out of of a trouble and and achieve things.

What has been your point of connection or practice with that higher power that keeps you connected? What's been that for you? There's so many different traditions and different methods. What's been the method for you that you find, especially in those moments, that you're able to tap in? Because I find that if you're able to tap in in really difficult times, it means you're doing something in good times because it doesn't just suddenly turn on when you need it. So what what has been your particular practice, method, uh system or theory that's kept you connect?

You hit the nail with that one. It's a consistent practice. So it's prayer work, mindfulness, meditation, conscious breathing, visualization, presence, basically many other things as well that that just NLP or you know there's a lot of different techniques that I have been practicing and triing always with myself before I would recommend it to someone else. And over the years, I've developed my own formula that changes dependent on the feeling, dependent on whether I'm on the court, whether I'm at home, whe practice, whatever it is that I'm doing.

But I try to do it when, you know, nobody's watching. And sometimes I verbalize things, sometimes I don't. Sometimes I write things down, sometimes I just internalize. It just depends. But I think most importantly in the end is that you are doing something. What does it feel now when you lose, have an early exit? Like what does that feel like now compared to before? As hard as hard as it was before. Yeah, sometimes there is no rule. Sometimes it takes me an hour, sometimes half a day, sometimes a week to go over the loss.

I mean, it just really depends. But right after the match, you know, I would uh if I have to reflect shortly about the match with my team, but I just want to be left alone. Yeah. I just have to go through my process. I don't like the the chitchat, the small talk of trying to lift my spirits up right after the match. I just like just give me some time. I need to isolate myself. go in my room, go outside, walk, whatever it is, you know, just blow some steam out.

And then when I do that, then I'm ready to, you know, talk, socialize, and stuff like this. I don't know whether that's something that is good or not in general terms. Uh, but that's just me. I feel like it's really hard for me to digest that I lost the match. As I said, sometimes takes longer, sometimes shorter to get out of it. But I do need definitely like few hours to not see anybody. Like I I hug my kids. If I see my kids, you know, my kids sometimes in within those few hours they get me and they're like, [snorts] "Betty, we have to do this.

You have to take me there and stuff." So kids have that permission to come into my space. But you know, anybody else I just need some some time. And I I just feel like it's sometimes is necessary to have that. And in solitude is not necessarily bad. And I feel like we all need to learn how to embrace being in in solitude and being by and enjoy being by ourselves. Doesn't mean that we have to go to total extreme, but it has to be balanced and optimal, but we need to create that time for ourselves because also being bored is good.

You've played through and overcome some bad injuries. What's the worst injury that you ever had to overcome to be able to come back at the top? I had a surgery of my elbow back in 2017 and I've kind of uh had that injury for a year and a half and I tried with I don't normally drink anti-inflammatories. I don't like that those t tablets and cortisone shots or anything like that. I feel like that's only masking the problem. But you know sometimes if you really you know in tennis we we sometimes play five six days in a row and you have no other option and if you want to stay alive in the tournament you have to do it.

So I've done it for like a year or something with playing uh under these pills like every single match to the point where I didn't feel pain anymore. Sorry, actually I felt the pain even if I was taking the full dose of anti-inflammatories and that's was the sign for me like I have to you know operate this I have to do something different I made a kind of a little bit of a while to myself and a promise that I will not operate myself throughout my career will not make any surgery and that was I I felt I let myself down I cried for days that I accepted to do a surgery but surgery was done very well you cried for days.

Yeah. Because I felt like I let myself down. I said, you know, I wanted to go throughout my entire career without having one surgery. But it happened and I had an arroscopic intervention on my knee last year during a match in Roland Garas actually fourth round. I've won in five sets after four and something hours. But I was uh I was winning set and and a half comfortably in the last 16 round. And then I felt a click. It was something. It was very weird. And I never had an injury of the knee luckily at least that severe.

And then you know I started to play but I could not stand on my leg. And I was playing through the pain. Then I invited the physio and the doctor and then you know he was touching me in this spot where my meniscus is and I felt wow and that's very painful. He's like what do you want to do? And I said listen you know I want to give it a shot. I want to try. Just give me strongest painkillers you you have right now cuz I'm on the court full stadium.

I can't just I I want to try. So that's what he's they've done and after 30 minutes they start kicking in and I was kind of surviving in this 30 minutes and then the pain went down. The pain was still there but I went through it and I won the match and I actually finished the match with pretty good feeling. I still had pain but it was pretty good feeling and I was like confident for my quarterfinals. It was coming up in two days but the next day I went for an MRI and I saw I have a ruptured uh meniscus and basically had to be operated.

So I I pulled out on the tournament and I did that operation and the Wimbledon was coming up in three weeks and then my team was I still remember that conversation with my team on the rooftop and on the back of that story that you told me about Vanessa and Kobe you know Vanessa was telling Kobe why do you play don't play like it's it's a normal protective advice from a dear person in your life same I got from all of my people from my family members to my team members and I remember my physio that I'm with for the last 20 years told me, "Yeah, you know, it's normally like four to six weeks and stuff like this, but you know, we had some miraculous recoveries from some athletes, blah blah blah." And my my physio was sitting on the on the rooftop of our hotel and all team was there and he said, "I know you do not even think for a second you'll play Wimbledon.

Like that's out of the question." Wow. And I didn't say anything. All the team members agreed. I didn't say anything. Actually, one thing I said, I said, I understand what you're saying, but please, you know, for my own mental sanity because it's Wimbledon, because it's my always been a dream tournament, the most important tournament. Let's just see how it goes in the next two weeks because I have three weeks to the tournament and I can pull out three, four, five days before the tournament. So, I have like two, two and a half weeks to play around.

At that point, I was with crutches. So long. So long story short, I've dedicated so much time in a day to recover and it was like a task for me to prove even the closest people in in my team and family wrong that I can recover [sighs and gasps] and it was really a mission and I recovered and I played finals and I I lost last year finals in Wimbledon and then I a week after that came to the Paris back again and played Olympics and won a gold medal.

So it was the best period of my of my uh 2024 season is when I actually had a surgery a post surgery because something clicked in my head where he triggered me my physio and said do not even think and for me what I heard is okay thank you for giving me the task because now I have a challenge on my hands. Yeah. All I needed is that and actually that's what I need now. I feel like in this phase of my career when I'm trying to motivate myself and keep going and stuff, I need a challenge.

I think athletes in the highest level after so long, they they need to feel their challenge. They need to feel that they are playing a game. Even though it's our job and every but we need to feel like we somebody is going to say something, you want to prove them wrong. Michael Jordan in his last dance was talking about it. He's like, even if I didn't have anybody in the crowds talking crap to me, but I still picked someone and selected him as an enemy and just because I needed to create that enemy inside of my head to get me going.

So, I actually relate to that even though I don't necessarily always look for enemies in my every match in the crowd, but I had quite an experience with tennis crowds over the years in my career. oftentimes when I would play with Nadal and Feather most of the times I would have most of the stadium against me so I it would be challenging but that's also part of why my mental toughness is as it is in a kind of a hostile environments played most of my matches and big matches and I kind of had to find a way to win a match and to use that energy as my fuel and not have it wear me down.

What does that take to do that? Because it sounds like that scrutiny is worse than an injury. What's worse? That kind of hostile environment, hostility or injury? Look, injury is the biggest enemy or an opponent of of an athlete. You can't do your job. You can't play your sport if you're injured, which proves the point of self-care even more of how important it is and how significantly you have to address that and approach that in your daily life as an individual athlete particularly. But at the same time, hostile environment is is not ideal.

I mean, you always want to be playing where you're celebrated, cheered for, of course, you know, lifts you up in the tough moments when you're down and just But I learned in the somehow in the hostile environment to thrive and I've seen that, you know, with like Kobe did it as well, right? LeBron, you know, other athletes as well in in their respective sports talked about it and in football they experience it a lot. People can relate to that. Like I think people always feel Yeah.

Even the average person constantly feels like their work's a hostile environment or wherever. Like what allowed you to use it as fuel consistently over that time to the point where people were cheering when you finally win? Well, there are a few things. First, I mentioned that already is using that as a fuel to prove somebody wrong. Mhm. And that requires work mentally to be able to transform or transmute that energy or that cheering that is against you to convince yourself it's for you. So I was I was saying this years ago uh after I was playing feather in one of the Wimbledon finals and they would cheer Roger Roger all the time basically.

So, I've was convincing myself and I managed to convince myself especially in the second part of the match that they were cheering no no or Novak Novak. I I that's what I was hearing. Wow. And that's cool. And then and then my mind was playing games, but I wasn't allowing it to play games with me that basically was like, "What are you talking about?" I mean, they're saying Roger and they're saying Novak, but I was like, "No, no, no. They're saying Novak, no, no, no." So, I was using that as my own force and my own fuel.

I just got chills. And then but that's it is possible. It is possible but you you need to work on that and convincing yourself in something that is different from the reality that is actually happening or basically in other words creating your own reality. See?

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