Unlearn Negative Thoughts & Behaviors Patterns | Dr. Alok Kanojia (Healthy Gamer)

Everyone's focused on changing behavior. Everyone's focused on changing behavior. Everyone's focused on increasing Everyone's focused on increasing Everyone's focused on increasing willpower to overcome this tendency. And willpower to overcome this tendency. And willpower to overcome this tendency. And it's like, why not just change the it's like, why not just change the it's like, why not just change the tendency? That sounds so simple, but tendency? That sounds so simple, but tendency? That sounds so simple, but that's literally what we do in that's literally what we do in that's literally what we do in psychotherapy every day. When we come in psychotherapy every day. When we come in psychotherapy every day. When we come in and someone has a narcissistic and someone has a narcissistic and someone has a narcissistic personality disorder. This is personality disorder. This is personality disorder. This is personality. This is who they are. And personality. This is who they are. And personality. This is who they are. And we can psychotherapize them to be we can psychotherapize them to be we can psychotherapize them to be someone else. for their natural thoughts someone else. for their natural thoughts someone else. for their natural thoughts to change, for the way that they see the to change, for the way that they see the to change, for the way that they see the world to change, for their behaviors to world to change, for their behaviors to world to change, for their behaviors to change on its own. It doesn't require change on its own. It doesn't require change on its own. It doesn't require willpower is necessary when you are willpower is necessary when you are willpower is necessary when you are trying to not be narcissistic. It is not trying to not be narcissistic. It is not trying to not be narcissistic. It is not necessary when you are no longer necessary when you are no longer necessary when you are no longer narcissistic. So, we've done it in narcissistic. So, we've done it in narcissistic. So, we've done it in psychotherapy. We know that if your psychotherapy. We know that if your psychotherapy. We know that if your self-esteem changes, if your sense of self-esteem changes, if your sense of self-esteem changes, if your sense of being changes, treatment refractory being changes, treatment refractory being changes, treatment refractory depression will change, trauma, PTSD depression will change, trauma, PTSD depression will change, trauma, PTSD will change. Welcome to the Huberman Lab will change. Welcome to the Huberman Lab will change. Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast where we discuss science and podcast where we discuss science and podcast where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life. I'm Andrew Huberman and I'm a professor I'm Andrew Huberman and I'm a professor of neurobiology and opthalmology at of neurobiology and opthalmology at of neurobiology and opthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. My guest Stanford School of Medicine. My guest Stanford School of Medicine. My guest today is Dr. Aloc Kenogia, also known as today is Dr. Aloc Kenogia, also known as today is Dr. Aloc Kenogia, also known as Dr. K. Dr. K is a psychiatrist and Dr. K. Dr. K is a psychiatrist and Dr. K. Dr. K is a psychiatrist and online mental health educator. He has a online mental health educator. He has a online mental health educator. He has a very unique background having trained very unique background having trained very unique background having trained and earned his medical degree in the and earned his medical degree in the and earned his medical degree in the United States but also having studied as United States but also having studied as United States but also having studied as a monk for seven years. Today we discuss a monk for seven years. Today we discuss a monk for seven years. Today we discuss powerful tools for increasing your powerful tools for increasing your powerful tools for increasing your self-standing and mental health and for self-standing and mental health and for self-standing and mental health and for rewiring your nervous system. rewiring your nervous system. rewiring your nervous system. Specifically, how you can unlearn Specifically, how you can unlearn Specifically, how you can unlearn unhealthy thought patterns and behaviors unhealthy thought patterns and behaviors unhealthy thought patterns and behaviors and replace them with ones that truly and replace them with ones that truly and replace them with ones that truly serve you and those around you. Much of serve you and those around you. Much of serve you and those around you. Much of today's discussion centers around today's discussion centers around today's discussion centers around differences between eastern and western differences between eastern and western differences between eastern and western concepts of things like the ego and what concepts of things like the ego and what concepts of things like the ego and what makes up our self-concept. That portion makes up our self-concept. That portion makes up our self-concept. That portion of the conversation will no doubt have of the conversation will no doubt have of the conversation will no doubt have you rethinking why you do what you do in you rethinking why you do what you do in you rethinking why you do what you do in virtually everything. And he provides a virtually everything. And he provides a virtually everything. And he provides a road map for clearly defining your best road map for clearly defining your best road map for clearly defining your best goals and for increasing things like goals and for increasing things like goals and for increasing things like your energy and drive, not through your energy and drive, not through your energy and drive, not through hacks, but by tapping into deep hacks, but by tapping into deep hacks, but by tapping into deep intrinsic motivation. In fact, intrinsic motivation. In fact, intrinsic motivation. In fact, throughout today's episode, Dr. K throughout today's episode, Dr. K throughout today's episode, Dr. K explains specific practices that you can explains specific practices that you can explains specific practices that you can use to help rewire your nervous system, use to help rewire your nervous system, use to help rewire your nervous system, resolve traumas, and come to a much resolve traumas, and come to a much resolve traumas, and come to a much clearer understanding of how best to clearer understanding of how best to clearer understanding of how best to apply your efforts in work, school, and apply your efforts in work, school, and apply your efforts in work, school, and relationships. We also discuss social relationships. We also discuss social relationships. We also discuss social media, dating and relationships, media, dating and relationships, media, dating and relationships, addiction, and pornography. So, there addiction, and pornography. So, there addiction, and pornography. So, there are a lot of topics covered. And I have are a lot of topics covered. And I have are a lot of topics covered. And I have to say, this is a conversation unlike to say, this is a conversation unlike to say, this is a conversation unlike any other that I've had on or off the any other that I've had on or off the any other that I've had on or off the podcast. Dr. K offers a completely new podcast. Dr. K offers a completely new podcast. Dr. K offers a completely new perspective on how to resolve common perspective on how to resolve common perspective on how to resolve common struggles that we all face and in doing struggles that we all face and in doing struggles that we all face and in doing so he offers a lot of practical tools. so he offers a lot of practical tools. so he offers a lot of practical tools. So this should be a very valuable So this should be a very valuable So this should be a very valuable conversation for anyone wishing to conversation for anyone wishing to conversation for anyone wishing to better understand themselves at the better understand themselves at the better understand themselves at the theoretical and psychological level but theoretical and psychological level but theoretical and psychological level but also who wishes to implement specific also who wishes to implement specific also who wishes to implement specific tools to improve some or all aspects of tools to improve some or all aspects of tools to improve some or all aspects of their life. Before we begin, I'd like to their life. Before we begin, I'd like to their life. Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate emphasize that this podcast is separate emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at from my teaching and research roles at from my teaching and research roles at Stanford. It is however part of my Stanford. It is however part of my Stanford. It is however part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost to desire and effort to bring zero cost to desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and consumer information about science and consumer information about science and science related tools to the general science related tools to the general science related tools to the general public. In keeping with that theme, public. In keeping with that theme, public. In keeping with that theme, today's episode does include sponsors. today's episode does include sponsors. today's episode does include sponsors. And now for my discussion with Dr. And now for my discussion with Dr. And now for my discussion with Dr. Aloque Kenogia. Dr. K, welcome. Aloque Kenogia. Dr. K, welcome. Aloque Kenogia. Dr. K, welcome. >> Andrew Huberman, thank you for having >> Andrew Huberman, thank you for having >> Andrew Huberman, thank you for having me. me. me. >> So interested in in you and the >> So interested in in you and the >> So interested in in you and the knowledge you hold. Um, today we're knowledge you hold. Um, today we're knowledge you hold. Um, today we're going to talk about a number of things. going to talk about a number of things. going to talk about a number of things. I mean, Ayurveda and East West medicine, I mean, Ayurveda and East West medicine, I mean, Ayurveda and East West medicine, motivation and dopamine, but I want to motivation and dopamine, but I want to motivation and dopamine, but I want to start with the internet. start with the internet. start with the internet. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> You had an interesting upbringing. Um, >> You had an interesting upbringing. Um, >> You had an interesting upbringing. Um, so very different than mine, not just so very different than mine, not just so very different than mine, not just because of our age difference. Uh, but because of our age difference. Uh, but because of our age difference. Uh, but you grew up on the internet like and so you grew up on the internet like and so you grew up on the internet like and so you really have an empathy for people on you really have an empathy for people on you really have an empathy for people on the internet, on social media, and now the internet, on social media, and now the internet, on social media, and now everyone's on the internet. What was it everyone's on the internet. What was it everyone's on the internet. What was it that drew you to screens and that that drew you to screens and that that drew you to screens and that interface with such a a degree of interface with such a a degree of interface with such a a degree of magnetism? magnetism? magnetism? >> You know, I was like a gifted kid >> You know, I was like a gifted kid >> You know, I was like a gifted kid growing up. And I think that one of the growing up. And I think that one of the growing up. And I think that one of the things that we don't really appreciate things that we don't really appreciate things that we don't really appreciate is um how school moves at the pace of is um how school moves at the pace of is um how school moves at the pace of the slowest kid. So, school was the slowest kid. So, school was the slowest kid. So, school was incredibly boring for me. Um and then I incredibly boring for me. Um and then I incredibly boring for me. Um and then I was also uh young. So, I I was a year was also uh young. So, I I was a year was also uh young. So, I I was a year ahead. And um so I was like early on ahead. And um so I was like early on ahead. And um so I was like early on when I was a 5-year-old in in first when I was a 5-year-old in in first when I was a 5-year-old in in first grade and I was competing against grade and I was competing against grade and I was competing against seven-year-olds like on the playground seven-year-olds like on the playground seven-year-olds like on the playground or in in in gym class, I sucked at or in in in gym class, I sucked at or in in in gym class, I sucked at sports. So the the one thing that I sports. So the the one thing that I sports. So the the one thing that I really got addicted to was this idea of really got addicted to was this idea of really got addicted to was this idea of like a computer game where like when you like a computer game where like when you like a computer game where like when you beat level one, like level two is there, beat level one, like level two is there, beat level one, like level two is there, you know, and then if you beat level you know, and then if you beat level you know, and then if you beat level two, like level three is there. If you two, like level three is there. If you two, like level three is there. If you fail at level three, you get to try fail at level three, you get to try fail at level three, you get to try level three again. So it was the only level three again. So it was the only level three again. So it was the only activity that was like cognitively to my activity that was like cognitively to my activity that was like cognitively to my pacing. Um and and so that really drew pacing. Um and and so that really drew pacing. Um and and so that really drew me in and I didn't realize that until me in and I didn't realize that until me in and I didn't realize that until years later. Uh you know, my parents years later. Uh you know, my parents years later. Uh you know, my parents were big fans of putting us into school were big fans of putting us into school were big fans of putting us into school like young and if you can skip grades, like young and if you can skip grades, like young and if you can skip grades, like that's great, right? Cuz life is a like that's great, right? Cuz life is a like that's great, right? Cuz life is a race and and the faster you finish, the race and and the faster you finish, the race and and the faster you finish, the better things are. Um but I I didn't better things are. Um but I I didn't better things are. Um but I I didn't realize how developmentally challenging realize how developmentally challenging realize how developmentally challenging it is to be like a 5-year-old or a it is to be like a 5-year-old or a it is to be like a 5-year-old or a six-year-old in in school with like six-year-old in in school with like six-year-old in in school with like seven-year-olds or eight-year-olds. So I seven-year-olds or eight-year-olds. So I seven-year-olds or eight-year-olds. So I think that's what originally drew me in, think that's what originally drew me in, think that's what originally drew me in, >> if you don't mind me asking. So you were >> if you don't mind me asking. So you were >> if you don't mind me asking. So you were first generation immigrant parents from first generation immigrant parents from first generation immigrant parents from India. India. India. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> I mean I grew up in the South Bay in >> I mean I grew up in the South Bay in >> I mean I grew up in the South Bay in Palo Alto so I'm familiar with intense Palo Alto so I'm familiar with intense Palo Alto so I'm familiar with intense academic environments. academic environments. academic environments. >> Increasingly so in the last you know 10 >> Increasingly so in the last you know 10 >> Increasingly so in the last you know 10 20 years but even when I was there it 20 years but even when I was there it 20 years but even when I was there it was you was intense. was you was intense. was you was intense. >> Did you feel that as pressure? >> Did you feel that as pressure? >> Did you feel that as pressure? >> Absolutely. I mean I I my earliest >> Absolutely. I mean I I my earliest >> Absolutely. I mean I I my earliest memories of of my grandmother telling me memories of of my grandmother telling me memories of of my grandmother telling me I'm going to make a great doctor one I'm going to make a great doctor one I'm going to make a great doctor one day. Um, and when I was like 15 years day. Um, and when I was like 15 years day. Um, and when I was like 15 years old, people would ask me like I'd go to old, people would ask me like I'd go to old, people would ask me like I'd go to like a party, right, with my parents and like a party, right, with my parents and like a party, right, with my parents and their friends, and people would ask me, their friends, and people would ask me, their friends, and people would ask me, "What do you want to be when you grow "What do you want to be when you grow "What do you want to be when you grow up?" And so I was like, "I'm going to be up?" And so I was like, "I'm going to be up?" And so I was like, "I'm going to be a doctor." And everyone was like, "Wow, a doctor." And everyone was like, "Wow, a doctor." And everyone was like, "Wow, impressive." You know? So my 15-year-old impressive." You know? So my 15-year-old impressive." You know? So my 15-year-old brain was like looking at this this like brain was like looking at this this like brain was like looking at this this like amazing idea of what a doctor was. And amazing idea of what a doctor was. And amazing idea of what a doctor was. And both my parents are doctors. My dad was both my parents are doctors. My dad was both my parents are doctors. My dad was an amazing doctor. Um I suppose my mom an amazing doctor. Um I suppose my mom an amazing doctor. Um I suppose my mom is too but my dad was one of the seinal is too but my dad was one of the seinal is too but my dad was one of the seinal researchers in like graft versus host researchers in like graft versus host researchers in like graft versus host disease. It's how he landed his job at disease. It's how he landed his job at disease. It's how he landed his job at MD Anderson. So he like came from India MD Anderson. So he like came from India MD Anderson. So he like came from India and like was an oncologist. Um and so I and like was an oncologist. Um and so I and like was an oncologist. Um and so I also remember like he used to back then also remember like he used to back then also remember like he used to back then hippo wasn't I I I think there wasn't hippo wasn't I I I think there wasn't hippo wasn't I I I think there wasn't even a hippo law. So he would have you even a hippo law. So he would have you even a hippo law. So he would have you know patients over to our house and know patients over to our house and know patients over to our house and stuff like that. He would throw a stuff like that. He would throw a stuff like that. He would throw a Thanksgiving party every year where like Thanksgiving party every year where like Thanksgiving party every year where like he would invite all of his patients all he would invite all of his patients all he would invite all of his patients all cancer survivors and and things like cancer survivors and and things like cancer survivors and and things like that. Um, and so my dad was really like that. Um, and so my dad was really like that. Um, and so my dad was really like a mythical figure. Uh, incredibly a mythical figure. Uh, incredibly a mythical figure. Uh, incredibly charismatic. And so I I was like, "Oh charismatic. And so I I was like, "Oh charismatic. And so I I was like, "Oh yeah, I'm going to be that." And so it yeah, I'm going to be that." And so it yeah, I'm going to be that." And so it became a huge part of my ego. Um, and became a huge part of my ego. Um, and became a huge part of my ego. Um, and then it turns out that ego is not a then it turns out that ego is not a then it turns out that ego is not a great way to motivate. Well, it can be a great way to motivate. Well, it can be a great way to motivate. Well, it can be a great way to motivate yourself. Um, but great way to motivate yourself. Um, but great way to motivate yourself. Um, but then I ran into trouble when I hit then I ran into trouble when I hit then I ran into trouble when I hit college because I never learned how to college because I never learned how to college because I never learned how to study. So e either I like absorbed study. So e either I like absorbed study. So e either I like absorbed everything and did well on the test. So, everything and did well on the test. So, everything and did well on the test. So, I went straight from like A's to Fs and I went straight from like A's to Fs and I went straight from like A's to Fs and then got addicted to video games, failed then got addicted to video games, failed then got addicted to video games, failed out of college. out of college. out of college. But your original question was, was I But your original question was, was I But your original question was, was I into computers and and why? And that's into computers and and why? And that's into computers and and why? And that's probably has something to do with it. probably has something to do with it. probably has something to do with it. >> Well, it sounds like you were so into >> Well, it sounds like you were so into >> Well, it sounds like you were so into computers, you eventually went over the computers, you eventually went over the computers, you eventually went over the cliff of computers with this addiction. cliff of computers with this addiction. cliff of computers with this addiction. I want to talk about the addiction, but I want to talk about the addiction, but I want to talk about the addiction, but I think this is a perfect frame, and I think this is a perfect frame, and I think this is a perfect frame, and maybe we'll jump back and forth as we maybe we'll jump back and forth as we maybe we'll jump back and forth as we move forward. Um, this is a perfect move forward. Um, this is a perfect move forward. Um, this is a perfect frame for frame for frame for what I have heard and wonder about a what I have heard and wonder about a what I have heard and wonder about a lot, which is, you know, I'm Gen X. lot, which is, you know, I'm Gen X. lot, which is, you know, I'm Gen X. Okay. You're a millennial. Okay. You're a millennial. Okay. You're a millennial. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I'm told, uh, that the generations >> And I'm told, uh, that the generations >> And I'm told, uh, that the generations right behind Gen X, right behind Gen X, right behind Gen X, >> um, >> um, >> um, >> perhaps had more >> perhaps had more >> perhaps had more love and encouragement to feel their love and encouragement to feel their love and encouragement to feel their feelings. um notions of what trauma and feelings. um notions of what trauma and feelings. um notions of what trauma and addiction were, but maybe that there addiction were, but maybe that there addiction were, but maybe that there wasn't this universally high standards wasn't this universally high standards wasn't this universally high standards set for all of them. That's the set for all of them. That's the set for all of them. That's the narrative that you see in the in the narrative that you see in the in the narrative that you see in the in the news right now. Oh, you know, this news right now. Oh, you know, this news right now. Oh, you know, this coddled generation, etc. You had high coddled generation, etc. You had high coddled generation, etc. You had high standards set for you. When you look out standards set for you. When you look out standards set for you. When you look out on your peers and you look out on the on your peers and you look out on the on your peers and you look out on the internet for millennials and younger, do internet for millennials and younger, do internet for millennials and younger, do you think that we can make a general you think that we can make a general you think that we can make a general statement about, oh yeah, you know, all statement about, oh yeah, you know, all statement about, oh yeah, you know, all all this appreciation and understanding all this appreciation and understanding all this appreciation and understanding about what addiction and trauma and about what addiction and trauma and about what addiction and trauma and feelings are? Um, you know, that just feelings are? Um, you know, that just feelings are? Um, you know, that just was foreign to my generation, frankly, was foreign to my generation, frankly, was foreign to my generation, frankly, that it helped or hurt to have this this that it helped or hurt to have this this that it helped or hurt to have this this awareness of of kind of self and what awareness of of kind of self and what awareness of of kind of self and what one needs and and all of that. Do do you one needs and and all of that. Do do you one needs and and all of that. Do do you think that it Yeah. Do you think it think that it Yeah. Do you think it think that it Yeah. Do you think it helped or or it hurt um development? helped or or it hurt um development? helped or or it hurt um development? >> Well, so Andrew, I'm delighted to be >> Well, so Andrew, I'm delighted to be >> Well, so Andrew, I'm delighted to be speaking to a scientist um because I speaking to a scientist um because I speaking to a scientist um because I think it helped and hurt, think it helped and hurt, think it helped and hurt, >> right? So So this is as you know, things >> right? So So this is as you know, things >> right? So So this is as you know, things are multiffactorial. It's rarely one are multiffactorial. It's rarely one are multiffactorial. It's rarely one thing or another thing. So I think a lot thing or another thing. So I think a lot thing or another thing. So I think a lot of people picked up ground with of people picked up ground with of people picked up ground with awareness of feelings. As a awareness of feelings. As a awareness of feelings. As a psychiatrist, you know, I work with psychiatrist, you know, I work with psychiatrist, you know, I work with people who were unaware of the family people who were unaware of the family people who were unaware of the family dynamics going on in in their life, in dynamics going on in in their life, in dynamics going on in in their life, in their household, unaware of their their household, unaware of their their household, unaware of their emotions, um, growing up with things emotions, um, growing up with things emotions, um, growing up with things like avoidant, attachment, and having like avoidant, attachment, and having like avoidant, attachment, and having difficulty forming connections. So, I difficulty forming connections. So, I difficulty forming connections. So, I think it is always good to be more think it is always good to be more think it is always good to be more aware. I think actually awareness is aware. I think actually awareness is aware. I think actually awareness is probably the single factor that probably the single factor that probably the single factor that correlates the most with like success correlates the most with like success correlates the most with like success and happiness. and happiness. and happiness. The challenge, the really subtle thing The challenge, the really subtle thing The challenge, the really subtle thing is that talking about emotions is that talking about emotions is that talking about emotions isn't the same as actually being aware isn't the same as actually being aware isn't the same as actually being aware of them. So I think what started to of them. So I think what started to of them. So I think what started to happen is a lot of this dialogue around happen is a lot of this dialogue around happen is a lot of this dialogue around trauma, a lot of this dialogue around trauma, a lot of this dialogue around trauma, a lot of this dialogue around feelings has actually been hijacked in feelings has actually been hijacked in feelings has actually been hijacked in very subtle ways by other parts of our very subtle ways by other parts of our very subtle ways by other parts of our mind, other parts like for example our mind, other parts like for example our mind, other parts like for example our ego. And so it's kind of like this ego. And so it's kind of like this ego. And so it's kind of like this therapy speak has like and this happens. therapy speak has like and this happens. therapy speak has like and this happens. So you can look at any population and if So you can look at any population and if So you can look at any population and if you have someone who's like sociopathic you have someone who's like sociopathic you have someone who's like sociopathic or if you have someone who's histrionic or if you have someone who's histrionic or if you have someone who's histrionic or narcissistic and everyone is talking or narcissistic and everyone is talking or narcissistic and everyone is talking feelings they will do that too but in a feelings they will do that too but in a feelings they will do that too but in a sociopathic way. Feelings have now sociopathic way. Feelings have now sociopathic way. Feelings have now started to be used as a form of started to be used as a form of started to be used as a form of manipulation. Right? So people will use manipulation. Right? So people will use manipulation. Right? So people will use like I see this all the time speaking of like I see this all the time speaking of like I see this all the time speaking of the internet in its modern incarnation. the internet in its modern incarnation. the internet in its modern incarnation. We all talk about boundaries but people We all talk about boundaries but people We all talk about boundaries but people have started to use boundaries as a form have started to use boundaries as a form have started to use boundaries as a form of control for other human beings. you of control for other human beings. you of control for other human beings. you know, my boundary is that you don't text know, my boundary is that you don't text know, my boundary is that you don't text anyone after 8:00 p.m. My my boundary is anyone after 8:00 p.m. My my boundary is anyone after 8:00 p.m. My my boundary is that, you know, every time I call you, that, you know, every time I call you, that, you know, every time I call you, you need to answer the phone. So, it's you need to answer the phone. So, it's you need to answer the phone. So, it's really bizarre how like the basic like really bizarre how like the basic like really bizarre how like the basic like psychological psychological psychological stuff can hijack like our our stuff can hijack like our our stuff can hijack like our our psychological patterns can hijack like psychological patterns can hijack like psychological patterns can hijack like we all this mental health speak. Another we all this mental health speak. Another we all this mental health speak. Another really good example of this is so I I really good example of this is so I I really good example of this is so I I remember I I was uh seeing an assault remember I I was uh seeing an assault remember I I was uh seeing an assault victim in the emergency room at at Mass victim in the emergency room at at Mass victim in the emergency room at at Mass General Hospital many years ago. And so General Hospital many years ago. And so General Hospital many years ago. And so the MIT chief of security was campus the MIT chief of security was campus the MIT chief of security was campus security was there. And so I was talking security was there. And so I was talking security was there. And so I was talking to them a little bit about, you know, to them a little bit about, you know, to them a little bit about, you know, because there were other students with because there were other students with because there were other students with with a student who had been assaulted with a student who had been assaulted with a student who had been assaulted and and they were kind of talking to me and and they were kind of talking to me and and they were kind of talking to me about safety. And I I remember something about safety. And I I remember something about safety. And I I remember something that the MIT chief told me that I I've that the MIT chief told me that I I've that the MIT chief told me that I I've never forgotten. We're talking about never forgotten. We're talking about never forgotten. We're talking about safety and he's like, "My job is not to safety and he's like, "My job is not to safety and he's like, "My job is not to make people feel safe. My job is to make make people feel safe. My job is to make make people feel safe. My job is to make people safe. And there's actually a big people safe. And there's actually a big people safe. And there's actually a big difference. And so something interesting difference. And so something interesting difference. And so something interesting has happened. We have all become more has happened. We have all become more has happened. We have all become more narcissistic because that's what the narcissistic because that's what the narcissistic because that's what the internet does to us. And so now if I am internet does to us. And so now if I am internet does to us. And so now if I am hurt that is no longer my hurt that is no longer my hurt that is no longer my responsibility. That is because you did responsibility. That is because you did responsibility. That is because you did something wrong. Does that make sense? something wrong. Does that make sense? something wrong. Does that make sense? >> Like fundamentally if I feel hurt that >> Like fundamentally if I feel hurt that >> Like fundamentally if I feel hurt that is often times tied to you doing is often times tied to you doing is often times tied to you doing something wrong. So there's this something wrong. So there's this something wrong. So there's this tendency towards victimization tendency towards victimization tendency towards victimization where you'll see even people who are where you'll see even people who are where you'll see even people who are like like playing the victim card which like like playing the victim card which like like playing the victim card which which doesn't mean that we shouldn't be which doesn't mean that we shouldn't be which doesn't mean that we shouldn't be believing victims. I think that's believing victims. I think that's believing victims. I think that's exactly what happens is we started to exactly what happens is we started to exactly what happens is we started to realize that we're not taking victims realize that we're not taking victims realize that we're not taking victims seriously but then all the chameleons in seriously but then all the chameleons in seriously but then all the chameleons in our society were looking at this pattern our society were looking at this pattern our society were looking at this pattern and they were realizing okay the fastest and they were realizing okay the fastest and they were realizing okay the fastest way for me to get ahead is to claim to way for me to get ahead is to claim to way for me to get ahead is to claim to be a victim. So, there are all kinds of be a victim. So, there are all kinds of be a victim. So, there are all kinds of weird permutations weird permutations weird permutations that are happening right now with this that are happening right now with this that are happening right now with this sort of emphasis on feeling. Um, one sort of emphasis on feeling. Um, one sort of emphasis on feeling. Um, one more evidence-based example of this is, more evidence-based example of this is, more evidence-based example of this is, you know, we're seeing the prevalence of you know, we're seeing the prevalence of you know, we're seeing the prevalence of mood disorders, anxiety disorders, mood disorders, anxiety disorders, mood disorders, anxiety disorders, addictions, body dysmorphia, basically addictions, body dysmorphia, basically addictions, body dysmorphia, basically everything is getting worse. And so, one everything is getting worse. And so, one everything is getting worse. And so, one weird thing that started to happen is as weird thing that started to happen is as weird thing that started to happen is as we've talked more about feelings, there we've talked more about feelings, there we've talked more about feelings, there is something called a transdiagnostic is something called a transdiagnostic is something called a transdiagnostic factor, which we can get into. I don't factor, which we can get into. I don't factor, which we can get into. I don't know if you're familiar with these or know if you're familiar with these or know if you're familiar with these or not, but so if you look at like all of not, but so if you look at like all of not, but so if you look at like all of the mental illnesses, there are certain the mental illnesses, there are certain the mental illnesses, there are certain attributes that are a risk factor for attributes that are a risk factor for attributes that are a risk factor for multiple mental illnesses. So a good multiple mental illnesses. So a good multiple mental illnesses. So a good example of transdiagnostic factors are example of transdiagnostic factors are example of transdiagnostic factors are perfectionism and rumination. So perfectionism and rumination. So perfectionism and rumination. So rumination rumination rumination doesn't make you depressed, doesn't doesn't make you depressed, doesn't doesn't make you depressed, doesn't necessarily make you anxious. But if you necessarily make you anxious. But if you necessarily make you anxious. But if you have a high index of rumination, you are have a high index of rumination, you are have a high index of rumination, you are more likely to have a major depressive more likely to have a major depressive more likely to have a major depressive disorder. You're more likely to have an disorder. You're more likely to have an disorder. You're more likely to have an anxiety disorder. Does that kind of make anxiety disorder. Does that kind of make anxiety disorder. Does that kind of make sense? sense? sense? >> If you are perfectionistic, you are more >> If you are perfectionistic, you are more >> If you are perfectionistic, you are more likely to be depressed. You are more likely to be depressed. You are more likely to be depressed. You are more likely to be anxious. So there's one likely to be anxious. So there's one likely to be anxious. So there's one interesting transdiagnostic factor which interesting transdiagnostic factor which interesting transdiagnostic factor which has gotten way worse, which is something has gotten way worse, which is something has gotten way worse, which is something called distress tolerance. So human called distress tolerance. So human called distress tolerance. So human beings capacity beings capacity beings capacity to sit with things and tolerate things to sit with things and tolerate things to sit with things and tolerate things that they do not find comfortable is that they do not find comfortable is that they do not find comfortable is starting to tank. And as that starts to starting to tank. And as that starts to starting to tank. And as that starts to tank, we're seeing an just an explosion tank, we're seeing an just an explosion tank, we're seeing an just an explosion of mental illness. of mental illness. of mental illness. >> Glucose is a key player in how our body >> Glucose is a key player in how our body >> Glucose is a key player in how our body functions, not just in the long term, functions, not just in the long term, functions, not just in the long term, but in every moment of our lives. That's but in every moment of our lives. That's but in every moment of our lives. That's because it is the major fuel for our because it is the major fuel for our because it is the major fuel for our cells, especially our brain cells. cells, especially our brain cells. cells, especially our brain cells. Glucose directly impacts our brain Glucose directly impacts our brain Glucose directly impacts our brain function, mood, and energy levels. And function, mood, and energy levels. And function, mood, and energy levels. And it may even affect our levels of it may even affect our levels of it may even affect our levels of tenacity and willpower. This is why I tenacity and willpower. This is why I tenacity and willpower. This is why I use the continuous glucose monitor from use the continuous glucose monitor from use the continuous glucose monitor from Lingo. I absolutely love it and I'm Lingo. I absolutely love it and I'm Lingo. 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The Lingo glucose for more information. The Lingo glucose system is for users 18 and older, not on system is for users 18 and older, not on system is for users 18 and older, not on insulin. It is not intended for the insulin. It is not intended for the insulin. It is not intended for the diagnosis of diseases including diagnosis of diseases including diagnosis of diseases including diabetes. Individual responses may vary. diabetes. Individual responses may vary. diabetes. Individual responses may vary. Today's episode is also brought to us by Today's episode is also brought to us by Today's episode is also brought to us by JWVE. JWV makes medical grade red light JWVE. JWV makes medical grade red light JWVE. JWV makes medical grade red light therapy devices. Now, if there's one therapy devices. Now, if there's one therapy devices. 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To learn more, visit juv spelled To learn more, visit juv spelled To learn more, visit juv spelled jovv.com/huberman. jovv.com/huberman. jovv.com/huberman. Again, that's jovv.com/huberman. The moment you said that we're seeing a The moment you said that we're seeing a a a reduction in distress tolerance, I a a reduction in distress tolerance, I a a reduction in distress tolerance, I heard in my head voices on the internet heard in my head voices on the internet heard in my head voices on the internet saying, "Oh, so we're just supposed to saying, "Oh, so we're just supposed to saying, "Oh, so we're just supposed to push our feelings aside, like we're just push our feelings aside, like we're just push our feelings aside, like we're just supposed to accept everything that supposed to accept everything that supposed to accept everything that happens to us. We're supposed to, you happens to us. We're supposed to, you happens to us. We're supposed to, you know, and of course I don't actually know, and of course I don't actually know, and of course I don't actually believe that, but I can empathize a bit believe that, but I can empathize a bit believe that, but I can empathize a bit with that with that notion, right? Like with that with that notion, right? Like with that with that notion, right? Like there's these things are always uh on a there's these things are always uh on a there's these things are always uh on a continuum. It's a it's a pushpull, continuum. It's a it's a pushpull, continuum. It's a it's a pushpull, right? I mean, I was going to raise the right? I mean, I was going to raise the right? I mean, I was going to raise the same thing around the standards that same thing around the standards that same thing around the standards that were set for you. Some people who grow were set for you. Some people who grow were set for you. Some people who grow up with very high standards set for them up with very high standards set for them up with very high standards set for them by parents, teachers, or coaches might by parents, teachers, or coaches might by parents, teachers, or coaches might internalize that as, "Oh, that must mean internalize that as, "Oh, that must mean internalize that as, "Oh, that must mean I'm very capable." In fact, in one of my I'm very capable." In fact, in one of my I'm very capable." In fact, in one of my favorite books, The Last Lecture by favorite books, The Last Lecture by favorite books, The Last Lecture by Randy Posh, he talks about um he was a Randy Posh, he talks about um he was a Randy Posh, he talks about um he was a computer scientist at Carnegie Melon, he computer scientist at Carnegie Melon, he computer scientist at Carnegie Melon, he eventually died. He gave his last eventually died. He gave his last eventually died. He gave his last lecture which is this incredible lecture lecture which is this incredible lecture lecture which is this incredible lecture and he he said the moment that your and he he said the moment that your and he he said the moment that your parents, coaches and teachers stop parents, coaches and teachers stop parents, coaches and teachers stop pushing you is the moment you should pushing you is the moment you should pushing you is the moment you should worry because they've given up on you. worry because they've given up on you. worry because they've given up on you. You if you're pushed people believe in You if you're pushed people believe in You if you're pushed people believe in you that there's a chance you might you that there's a chance you might you that there's a chance you might actually accomplish something. They actually accomplish something. They actually accomplish something. They believe in you. But you could also believe in you. But you could also believe in you. But you could also internalize it as overwhelm. internalize it as overwhelm. internalize it as overwhelm. >> Yeah. Like and so I think this notion of >> Yeah. Like and so I think this notion of >> Yeah. Like and so I think this notion of distress tolerance like what are what distress tolerance like what are what distress tolerance like what are what are the standards what are the um are the standards what are the um are the standards what are the um standards for distress tolerance for standards for distress tolerance for standards for distress tolerance for performance for being a quote unquote performance for being a quote unquote performance for being a quote unquote functional member of society while also functional member of society while also functional member of society while also quote unquote honoring one's feelings quote unquote honoring one's feelings quote unquote honoring one's feelings about feeling one feelings there's about feeling one feelings there's about feeling one feelings there's there's no road map I believe to how to there's no road map I believe to how to there's no road map I believe to how to navigate that what you said there is no navigate that what you said there is no navigate that what you said there is no roadmap that happens to be true and it roadmap that happens to be true and it roadmap that happens to be true and it happens to be wrong so I know it's happens to be wrong so I know it's happens to be wrong so I know it's confusing so let me explain confusing so let me explain confusing so let me explain So here's the first thing to understand So here's the first thing to understand So here's the first thing to understand the way that we collect information. the way that we collect information. the way that we collect information. This is why I love being a clinician. So This is why I love being a clinician. So This is why I love being a clinician. So like you know you talked about the last like you know you talked about the last like you know you talked about the last lecture. So this person was saying if lecture. So this person was saying if lecture. So this person was saying if people don't push you that means that people don't push you that means that people don't push you that means that they don't you know care about you. they don't you know care about you. they don't you know care about you. They're not invested in you. They don't They're not invested in you. They don't They're not invested in you. They don't the moment that you give up on someone the moment that you give up on someone the moment that you give up on someone is the moment that you stop pushing is the moment that you stop pushing is the moment that you stop pushing them. Right? Makes perfect sense. And them. Right? Makes perfect sense. And them. Right? Makes perfect sense. And then there are also people who have been then there are also people who have been then there are also people who have been pushed to the point where they like pushed to the point where they like pushed to the point where they like crack under pressure. That's actually crack under pressure. That's actually crack under pressure. That's actually way more common. And so so generally way more common. And so so generally way more common. And so so generally speaking pressure you know just like any speaking pressure you know just like any speaking pressure you know just like any other part of biology if I exert other part of biology if I exert other part of biology if I exert pressure on some part on some joint on pressure on some part on some joint on pressure on some part on some joint on some part of soft tissue will develop a some part of soft tissue will develop a some part of soft tissue will develop a callous it'll become tough so this is callous it'll become tough so this is callous it'll become tough so this is where the the the reason there's no road where the the the reason there's no road where the the the reason there's no road map is because people aren't the same map is because people aren't the same map is because people aren't the same right so we all have unique genetics we right so we all have unique genetics we right so we all have unique genetics we all have unique experiences we all have all have unique experiences we all have all have unique experiences we all have a unique internal dialogue and so the a unique internal dialogue and so the a unique internal dialogue and so the whole point of personality and we can whole point of personality and we can whole point of personality and we can define personality like by the technical define personality like by the technical define personality like by the technical terms which is it is the way that you terms which is it is the way that you terms which is it is the way that you interpret information, the way you interpret information, the way you interpret information, the way you perceive the world, your internal perceive the world, your internal perceive the world, your internal reactions, and the behaviors that you reactions, and the behaviors that you reactions, and the behaviors that you engage in. So, you can take literally, engage in. So, you can take literally, engage in. So, you can take literally, you know, two different human beings in you know, two different human beings in you know, two different human beings in the exact same situation. I've worked the exact same situation. I've worked the exact same situation. I've worked with a couple of survivors of like with a couple of survivors of like with a couple of survivors of like genocidal conflicts. And the really genocidal conflicts. And the really genocidal conflicts. And the really interesting thing about that is not interesting thing about that is not interesting thing about that is not everybody gets PTSD, which is like everybody gets PTSD, which is like everybody gets PTSD, which is like really weird, right? Like if you think really weird, right? Like if you think really weird, right? Like if you think about this is like a genocidal conflict. about this is like a genocidal conflict. about this is like a genocidal conflict. So, we have tons of people who all So, we have tons of people who all So, we have tons of people who all experience the same thing, but their experience the same thing, but their experience the same thing, but their reactions to them are really different. reactions to them are really different. reactions to them are really different. That's what's fun about being a That's what's fun about being a That's what's fun about being a clinician. What I try to focus on and clinician. What I try to focus on and clinician. What I try to focus on and what I learned, I looked for a road map. what I learned, I looked for a road map. what I learned, I looked for a road map. And what I found is that there's not a And what I found is that there's not a And what I found is that there's not a road map. There are thousands of road road map. There are thousands of road road map. There are thousands of road maps. And those road maps come down to, maps. And those road maps come down to, maps. And those road maps come down to, and this is, I think, a huge problem in and this is, I think, a huge problem in and this is, I think, a huge problem in the information the information the information based world we live in. So, everyone has based world we live in. So, everyone has based world we live in. So, everyone has problems, right? And they're looking for problems, right? And they're looking for problems, right? And they're looking for solutions, which is great. solutions, which is great. solutions, which is great. The problem, the biggest mistake that I The problem, the biggest mistake that I The problem, the biggest mistake that I see pe uh people make, especially high see pe uh people make, especially high see pe uh people make, especially high performers, is a problem of performers, is a problem of performers, is a problem of misdiagnosis. misdiagnosis. misdiagnosis. So, really good example of this, I had a So, really good example of this, I had a So, really good example of this, I had a a a patient come into my office, worked a a patient come into my office, worked a a patient come into my office, worked in finance, was at a very very in finance, was at a very very in finance, was at a very very successful firm, came in and was like, I successful firm, came in and was like, I successful firm, came in and was like, I have really bad anxiety. Like, it's have really bad anxiety. Like, it's have really bad anxiety. Like, it's really starting like I can't eat, like I really starting like I can't eat, like I really starting like I can't eat, like I can't sleep, my wife is really worried can't sleep, my wife is really worried can't sleep, my wife is really worried about me. So, he's like, you know, I've about me. So, he's like, you know, I've about me. So, he's like, you know, I've got really bad anxiety. So, we start got really bad anxiety. So, we start got really bad anxiety. So, we start talking about it and he's like, you talking about it and he's like, you talking about it and he's like, you know, I'm afraid I'm going to get fired. know, I'm afraid I'm going to get fired. know, I'm afraid I'm going to get fired. And we work together for about And we work together for about And we work together for about 12 months and then he realizes this 12 months and then he realizes this 12 months and then he realizes this environment is not where he's happy. And environment is not where he's happy. And environment is not where he's happy. And the reason he's going to get fired is the reason he's going to get fired is the reason he's going to get fired is because he doesn't fit in and he decides because he doesn't fit in and he decides because he doesn't fit in and he decides to quit. So, what's really interesting to quit. So, what's really interesting to quit. So, what's really interesting is if if we had just solved that, if we is if if we had just solved that, if we is if if we had just solved that, if we had made his anxiety go away, he would had made his anxiety go away, he would had made his anxiety go away, he would have perpetuated in an unhealthy system. have perpetuated in an unhealthy system. have perpetuated in an unhealthy system. And and this is the thing that I think And and this is the thing that I think And and this is the thing that I think we forget when we're talking about our we forget when we're talking about our we forget when we're talking about our emotions. Like emotions. Like emotions. Like Andrew, which part of the brain does Andrew, which part of the brain does Andrew, which part of the brain does anxiety come from? anxiety come from? anxiety come from? >> It's a circuit-wide phenomenon. >> It's a circuit-wide phenomenon. >> It's a circuit-wide phenomenon. >> Sure. If we had, how is it taught? If >> Sure. If we had, how is it taught? If >> Sure. If we had, how is it taught? If you had to teach someone who's taking an you had to teach someone who's taking an you had to teach someone who's taking an undergraduate neuroscience class, and undergraduate neuroscience class, and undergraduate neuroscience class, and maybe you wouldn't teach it this way, maybe you wouldn't teach it this way, maybe you wouldn't teach it this way, but if you had to localize it to but if you had to localize it to but if you had to localize it to somewhere, where would you localize it somewhere, where would you localize it somewhere, where would you localize it to? to? to? >> To one structure. Everyone would say >> To one structure. Everyone would say >> To one structure. Everyone would say amydala. I teach neuro anatomy to amydala. I teach neuro anatomy to amydala. I teach neuro anatomy to medical students, so or I didn't until medical students, so or I didn't until medical students, so or I didn't until very recently. I'm totally with the very recently. I'm totally with the very recently. I'm totally with the liyic system as a whole, right? But the liyic system as a whole, right? But the liyic system as a whole, right? But the amydala and the really interesting thing amydala and the really interesting thing amydala and the really interesting thing is like is like is like >> crocodiles have amydalas, >> crocodiles have amydalas, >> crocodiles have amydalas, >> right? So, so we sometimes forget that >> right? So, so we sometimes forget that >> right? So, so we sometimes forget that these negative emotions are actually these negative emotions are actually these negative emotions are actually really important for us. They're really really important for us. They're really really important for us. They're really healthy for us. One other really healthy for us. One other really healthy for us. One other really interesting example of this is, you interesting example of this is, you interesting example of this is, you know, I work with a lot of like gamers know, I work with a lot of like gamers know, I work with a lot of like gamers on the internet. So sometimes they'll on the internet. So sometimes they'll on the internet. So sometimes they'll try to engage in mating behaviors try to engage in mating behaviors try to engage in mating behaviors and and they'll creep people out. And and and they'll creep people out. And and and they'll creep people out. And one of the really interesting things one of the really interesting things one of the really interesting things that I I realized is embarrassment that I I realized is embarrassment that I I realized is embarrassment is the best way to not creep someone is the best way to not creep someone is the best way to not creep someone out. So if I violate one of your out. So if I violate one of your out. So if I violate one of your boundaries and then I express boundaries and then I express boundaries and then I express embarrassment, that signals to you that embarrassment, that signals to you that embarrassment, that signals to you that I realize I did something wrong. So if I I realize I did something wrong. So if I I realize I did something wrong. So if I violate one of your boundaries and then violate one of your boundaries and then violate one of your boundaries and then I express embarrassment, that's a really I express embarrassment, that's a really I express embarrassment, that's a really important empathic signal. And now we important empathic signal. And now we important empathic signal. And now we have all of this like content on the have all of this like content on the have all of this like content on the internet telling people to be internet telling people to be internet telling people to be relentlessly confident. And when they relentlessly confident. And when they relentlessly confident. And when they become relentlessly confident, they no become relentlessly confident, they no become relentlessly confident, they no longer express embarrassment. longer express embarrassment. longer express embarrassment. Embarrassment is a really important Embarrassment is a really important Embarrassment is a really important signal to send. In the example you gave, signal to send. In the example you gave, signal to send. In the example you gave, it's very clear that somebody violated it's very clear that somebody violated it's very clear that somebody violated somebody's boundary. They felt somebody's boundary. They felt somebody's boundary. They felt embarrassment. Showing that embarrassment. Showing that embarrassment. Showing that embarrassment shows that they have some embarrassment shows that they have some embarrassment shows that they have some sort of empathic attunement or awareness sort of empathic attunement or awareness sort of empathic attunement or awareness that makes them perhaps a little less that makes them perhaps a little less that makes them perhaps a little less creepy and a little bit safer as opposed creepy and a little bit safer as opposed creepy and a little bit safer as opposed to if they just kept, you know, going to if they just kept, you know, going to if they just kept, you know, going forward. Right. However, if it was a bit forward. Right. However, if it was a bit forward. Right. However, if it was a bit vague, like let's say that they did vague, like let's say that they did vague, like let's say that they did something um of flirt of flirtation and something um of flirt of flirtation and something um of flirt of flirtation and it wasn't really clear what it was and it wasn't really clear what it was and it wasn't really clear what it was and the other person said, "Hey, like that the other person said, "Hey, like that the other person said, "Hey, like that doesn't feel good to me." And then they doesn't feel good to me." And then they doesn't feel good to me." And then they acted very embarrassed and the person acted very embarrassed and the person acted very embarrassed and the person who said it didn't feel good to them who said it didn't feel good to them who said it didn't feel good to them would quite understandably think, "Oh, would quite understandably think, "Oh, would quite understandably think, "Oh, it must have been really bad." Right? it must have been really bad." Right? it must have been really bad." Right? Often times the dynamics are subtle Often times the dynamics are subtle Often times the dynamics are subtle where people don't really know how they where people don't really know how they where people don't really know how they should feel about something. at the should feel about something. at the should feel about something. at the extremes we know. extremes we know. extremes we know. >> So I'm going to reverse Russian doll us >> So I'm going to reverse Russian doll us >> So I'm going to reverse Russian doll us because I I was all over the place. So because I I was all over the place. So because I I was all over the place. So you asked about a road map. you asked about a road map. you asked about a road map. >> Then I gave the example of anxiety. Then >> Then I gave the example of anxiety. Then >> Then I gave the example of anxiety. Then I gave the example of of embarrassment I gave the example of of embarrassment I gave the example of of embarrassment as another uh emotion that's helpful. as another uh emotion that's helpful. as another uh emotion that's helpful. And you're now you're asking a question. And you're now you're asking a question. And you're now you're asking a question. So we're going to do it in reverse So we're going to do it in reverse So we're going to do it in reverse order. But I want to get back to that order. But I want to get back to that order. But I want to get back to that road map because I think it's a road map because I think it's a road map because I think it's a beautiful question. beautiful question. beautiful question. >> I wrote it down. We haven't forgotten. >> I wrote it down. We haven't forgotten. >> I wrote it down. We haven't forgotten. >> Great. Let's talk about the ambiguous >> Great. Let's talk about the ambiguous >> Great. Let's talk about the ambiguous interactions. This is fascinating. So, I interactions. This is fascinating. So, I interactions. This is fascinating. So, I I saw a really cool study where when two I saw a really cool study where when two I saw a really cool study where when two people are flirting and that's taped and people are flirting and that's taped and people are flirting and that's taped and a neutral observer is watching it, they a neutral observer is watching it, they a neutral observer is watching it, they accurately detect flirting only about accurately detect flirting only about accurately detect flirting only about 30% of the time. Different studies show 30% of the time. Different studies show 30% of the time. Different studies show 24 to 42%. You're saying ambiguity is a 24 to 42%. You're saying ambiguity is a 24 to 42%. You're saying ambiguity is a problem. No, ambiguity is exactly what's problem. No, ambiguity is exactly what's problem. No, ambiguity is exactly what's supposed to happen. So, if you think supposed to happen. So, if you think supposed to happen. So, if you think about what flirting is, flirting is about what flirting is, flirting is about what flirting is, flirting is a way to preserve plausible deniability. a way to preserve plausible deniability. a way to preserve plausible deniability. It's a way to make you feel safe, right? It's a way to make you feel safe, right? It's a way to make you feel safe, right? So if I if I am really Andrew, I'm So if I if I am really Andrew, I'm So if I if I am really Andrew, I'm really interested in your body, bro. But really interested in your body, bro. But really interested in your body, bro. But if I say that it it's it's, you know, if I say that it it's it's, you know, if I say that it it's it's, you know, unless you are matching that energy, unless you are matching that energy, unless you are matching that energy, it's not going to be safe. It's not it's not going to be safe. It's not it's not going to be safe. It's not going to be good. It'll ruin our going to be good. It'll ruin our going to be good. It'll ruin our relationship. So flirting by nature is relationship. So flirting by nature is relationship. So flirting by nature is supposed to be missed. So this is supposed to be missed. So this is supposed to be missed. So this is another thing where you're saying like, another thing where you're saying like, another thing where you're saying like, yes, there's ambiguity. It could be yes, there's ambiguity. It could be yes, there's ambiguity. It could be interpreted this way and it could be interpreted this way and it could be interpreted this way and it could be interpreted this way. That's not bad. interpreted this way. That's not bad. interpreted this way. That's not bad. That's good. That's that's how human That's good. That's that's how human That's good. That's that's how human beings actually interact. Um, so beings actually interact. Um, so beings actually interact. Um, so Winnott, you know, described this Winnott, you know, described this Winnott, you know, described this beautifully because flirting is a a form beautifully because flirting is a a form beautifully because flirting is a a form of play. That's literally what it is. of play. That's literally what it is. of play. That's literally what it is. And play is about a potential space. And play is about a potential space. And play is about a potential space. >> When I'm playing like dolls with my >> When I'm playing like dolls with my >> When I'm playing like dolls with my daughter, it's not defined. And the daughter, it's not defined. And the daughter, it's not defined. And the whole point is for it to be not defined. whole point is for it to be not defined. whole point is for it to be not defined. >> So in that absence of definition, which >> So in that absence of definition, which >> So in that absence of definition, which now everyone is sort of like we're now everyone is sort of like we're now everyone is sort of like we're seeing a social skills atrophy. So, you seeing a social skills atrophy. So, you seeing a social skills atrophy. So, you know, the the parts of our brain that know, the the parts of our brain that know, the the parts of our brain that interpret tone, body language, things interpret tone, body language, things interpret tone, body language, things like that, like people are are becoming like that, like people are are becoming like that, like people are are becoming like, you know, we're seeing a rise of like, you know, we're seeing a rise of like, you know, we're seeing a rise of like ADHD and everyone also feel like ADHD and everyone also feel like ADHD and everyone also feel subjectively like they're autistic. It's subjectively like they're autistic. It's subjectively like they're autistic. It's because they're they're losing some because they're they're losing some because they're they're losing some degree of social skills because we text degree of social skills because we text degree of social skills because we text back and forth. And our brains don't our back and forth. And our brains don't our back and forth. And our brains don't our our occipital cortex is not interpreting our occipital cortex is not interpreting our occipital cortex is not interpreting visual information of people's facial visual information of people's facial visual information of people's facial expressions. So, that part of our brain expressions. So, that part of our brain expressions. So, that part of our brain like literally kind of shuts off. So, like literally kind of shuts off. So, like literally kind of shuts off. So, people are having a lot of difficulty people are having a lot of difficulty people are having a lot of difficulty with ambiguity. You know people are with ambiguity. You know people are with ambiguity. You know people are saying like oh this person is sending saying like oh this person is sending saying like oh this person is sending mixed signals like that's the point in a mixed signals like that's the point in a mixed signals like that's the point in a relationship you are going to have mixed relationship you are going to have mixed relationship you are going to have mixed signals in a friendship you will have signals in a friendship you will have signals in a friendship you will have mixed signals we all have ambivalence mixed signals we all have ambivalence mixed signals we all have ambivalence within us I I want to eat a healthy lean within us I I want to eat a healthy lean within us I I want to eat a healthy lean protein during lunch and I also want to protein during lunch and I also want to protein during lunch and I also want to eat a fried protein during lunch right eat a fried protein during lunch right eat a fried protein during lunch right so ambiguity is actually not something so ambiguity is actually not something so ambiguity is actually not something to be avoided the really interesting to be avoided the really interesting to be avoided the really interesting thing another uh transdiagnostic factor thing another uh transdiagnostic factor thing another uh transdiagnostic factor really important one the intolerance of really important one the intolerance of really important one the intolerance of uncertainty uncertainty uncertainty So, human beings who are capable of So, human beings who are capable of So, human beings who are capable of tolerating uncertainty, tolerating uncertainty, tolerating uncertainty, better mental health outcomes, um, more better mental health outcomes, um, more better mental health outcomes, um, more resilient, improved quality of life. resilient, improved quality of life. resilient, improved quality of life. Right? So, everyone needs defined Right? So, everyone needs defined Right? So, everyone needs defined answers. So, I'll pause there for a answers. So, I'll pause there for a answers. So, I'll pause there for a moment just to address your flirtation moment just to address your flirtation moment just to address your flirtation example, but you're spot on. We can tell example, but you're spot on. We can tell example, but you're spot on. We can tell what the signals are at either end. The what the signals are at either end. The what the signals are at either end. The point of human interaction is that way point of human interaction is that way point of human interaction is that way we can adapt to each other. we can adapt to each other. we can adapt to each other. You know, if I put my arm around you, You know, if I put my arm around you, You know, if I put my arm around you, then how do you respond to that? Do you then how do you respond to that? Do you then how do you respond to that? Do you get up and go to the bathroom or do you get up and go to the bathroom or do you get up and go to the bathroom or do you lean in? So, these are how human like lean in? So, these are how human like lean in? So, these are how human like these are how how human interactions these are how how human interactions these are how how human interactions actually happen. There's a lot of back actually happen. There's a lot of back actually happen. There's a lot of back and forth. and forth. and forth. >> Fascinating. A lot of younger guys talk >> Fascinating. A lot of younger guys talk >> Fascinating. A lot of younger guys talk to me about their challenges in the to me about their challenges in the to me about their challenges in the dating scene. dating scene. dating scene. >> And one of the things that they seem >> And one of the things that they seem >> And one of the things that they seem very challenged with is the fact that very challenged with is the fact that very challenged with is the fact that they feel like whatever happens on a they feel like whatever happens on a they feel like whatever happens on a date is shared on the internet. Yeah. date is shared on the internet. Yeah. date is shared on the internet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Um, and this is of course not related >> Um, and this is of course not related >> Um, and this is of course not related to, you know, assault or or them acting to, you know, assault or or them acting to, you know, assault or or them acting highly inappropriate or, you know, this highly inappropriate or, you know, this highly inappropriate or, you know, this is really like they're reported as a is really like they're reported as a is really like they're reported as a good or bad kisser. They're reported as good or bad kisser. They're reported as good or bad kisser. They're reported as a um they pay or they don't pay. And and a um they pay or they don't pay. And and a um they pay or they don't pay. And and you know, and so I think that the room you know, and so I think that the room you know, and so I think that the room to explore ambiguity to explore ambiguity to explore ambiguity >> um to them, this is what I hear, feels >> um to them, this is what I hear, feels >> um to them, this is what I hear, feels very dangerous. It feels like a slippery very dangerous. It feels like a slippery very dangerous. It feels like a slippery slope. Yeah. Where they have to perform slope. Yeah. Where they have to perform slope. Yeah. Where they have to perform perfectly on every measure and I'm sure perfectly on every measure and I'm sure perfectly on every measure and I'm sure women feel the same way, right? I just women feel the same way, right? I just women feel the same way, right? I just hear from more more men. hear from more more men. hear from more more men. >> Yeah. It's very tricky. So, I I think >> Yeah. It's very tricky. So, I I think >> Yeah. It's very tricky. So, I I think what we're seeing in in the dating world what we're seeing in in the dating world what we're seeing in in the dating world and and I guess we're this is what we're and and I guess we're this is what we're and and I guess we're this is what we're talking about. Maybe it's top of mind talking about. Maybe it's top of mind talking about. Maybe it's top of mind for me because I just uh did a bunch of for me because I just uh did a bunch of for me because I just uh did a bunch of content on it. But um so what's content on it. But um so what's content on it. But um so what's interesting in the dating world is that interesting in the dating world is that interesting in the dating world is that now we're sort of adding the internet to now we're sort of adding the internet to now we're sort of adding the internet to the equation, right? Which you sort of the equation, right? Which you sort of the equation, right? Which you sort of talked about. So let's just understand a talked about. So let's just understand a talked about. So let's just understand a couple of things about the internet. So couple of things about the internet. So couple of things about the internet. So the first is what the internet in my the first is what the internet in my the first is what the internet in my opinion this is sort of like a opinion this is sort of like a opinion this is sort of like a clinician's perspective having read clinician's perspective having read clinician's perspective having read about 200 papers on various aspects of about 200 papers on various aspects of about 200 papers on various aspects of how the internet affects our brains and how the internet affects our brains and how the internet affects our brains and our psychology. our psychology. our psychology. Um first thing to understand is that the Um first thing to understand is that the Um first thing to understand is that the internet selects for emotional internet selects for emotional internet selects for emotional activation. It's not even dopamine in my activation. It's not even dopamine in my activation. It's not even dopamine in my opinion. So if you look at like internet opinion. So if you look at like internet opinion. So if you look at like internet right so it's not just fun in games right so it's not just fun in games right so it's not just fun in games actually the most engaging content is actually the most engaging content is actually the most engaging content is emotionally engaging emotionally engaging emotionally engaging >> arousal >> arousal >> arousal >> arousal absolutely >> arousal absolutely >> arousal absolutely >> adrenaline >> adrenaline >> adrenaline >> and then the other interesting thing is >> and then the other interesting thing is >> and then the other interesting thing is that in order to maintain arousal you that in order to maintain arousal you that in order to maintain arousal you need a dichotomy of emotions need a dichotomy of emotions need a dichotomy of emotions >> so I need to scare you and then I need >> so I need to scare you and then I need >> so I need to scare you and then I need to make you angry and then I need to to make you angry and then I need to to make you angry and then I need to show you a cat video and then I need to show you a cat video and then I need to show you a cat video and then I need to scare you again and then I need to tell scare you again and then I need to tell scare you again and then I need to tell you how AI is going to steal their job you how AI is going to steal their job you how AI is going to steal their job and then I want to show you this and then I want to show you this and then I want to show you this birthday party where this baby did the birthday party where this baby did the birthday party where this baby did the cutest thing. So this is literally how cutest thing. So this is literally how cutest thing. So this is literally how it they maintain engagement. And so it they maintain engagement. And so it they maintain engagement. And so what's really interesting about this is what's really interesting about this is what's really interesting about this is as our emot as our lyic system is like as our emot as our lyic system is like as our emot as our lyic system is like hyperactive over and over and over again hyperactive over and over and over again hyperactive over and over and over again that's one of the biggest cognitive that's one of the biggest cognitive that's one of the biggest cognitive drains that we have. So like I think the drains that we have. So like I think the drains that we have. So like I think the top three cognitive the things that top three cognitive the things that top three cognitive the things that drain our willpower the most suppressing drain our willpower the most suppressing drain our willpower the most suppressing emotion repressing emotion even just emotion repressing emotion even just emotion repressing emotion even just feeling emotion is like very exhausting. feeling emotion is like very exhausting. feeling emotion is like very exhausting. The internet is selecting for the most The internet is selecting for the most The internet is selecting for the most emotionally activating things. So who emotionally activating things. So who emotionally activating things. So who which tweets get engaged with the ones which tweets get engaged with the ones which tweets get engaged with the ones that are the most polarizing? that are the most polarizing? that are the most polarizing? So then what happens is is people are So then what happens is is people are So then what happens is is people are dating and now you've got a problem dating and now you've got a problem dating and now you've got a problem because and here's the real tragedy is because and here's the real tragedy is because and here's the real tragedy is people will have a perception people will have a perception people will have a perception that if I don't say the right thing this that if I don't say the right thing this that if I don't say the right thing this will get posted online that is not what will get posted online that is not what will get posted online that is not what happens most of the time right but this happens most of the time right but this happens most of the time right but this is where we as human beings have certain is where we as human beings have certain is where we as human beings have certain cognitive biases where the extreme cognitive biases where the extreme cognitive biases where the extreme example like we get trained in this in example like we get trained in this in example like we get trained in this in medical school is you know once you miss medical school is you know once you miss medical school is you know once you miss a cancer diagnosis once it doesn't mean a cancer diagnosis once it doesn't mean a cancer diagnosis once it doesn't mean that every patient after that has that every patient after that has that every patient after that has cancer. But that's what the brain is cancer. But that's what the brain is cancer. But that's what the brain is designed to do. Our brain is designed designed to do. Our brain is designed designed to do. Our brain is designed for survival. Which means that if we get for survival. Which means that if we get for survival. Which means that if we get food poisoning from a restaurant even food poisoning from a restaurant even food poisoning from a restaurant even once, our brain doesn't look at that once, our brain doesn't look at that once, our brain doesn't look at that probabilistically. It takes the worst probabilistically. It takes the worst probabilistically. It takes the worst examples examples examples and that's what we have to base our and that's what we have to base our and that's what we have to base our behavior on, right? Like if I'm at work behavior on, right? Like if I'm at work behavior on, right? Like if I'm at work and I want to if I'm attracted to a and I want to if I'm attracted to a and I want to if I'm attracted to a co-orker, even though there's a 90% co-orker, even though there's a 90% co-orker, even though there's a 90% chance that if I express some romantic chance that if I express some romantic chance that if I express some romantic interest in them, I'm going to be fine. interest in them, I'm going to be fine. interest in them, I'm going to be fine. I can't make a strategy based on that. I I can't make a strategy based on that. I I can't make a strategy based on that. I have to ba base my strategy on the worst have to ba base my strategy on the worst have to ba base my strategy on the worst possible outcome. That's what we're possible outcome. That's what we're possible outcome. That's what we're seeing in data. seeing in data. seeing in data. >> You said that suppressing emotion is >> You said that suppressing emotion is >> You said that suppressing emotion is cognitively draining. Did I also cognitively draining. Did I also cognitively draining. Did I also understand correctly that being in understand correctly that being in understand correctly that being in constant arousal through different constant arousal through different constant arousal through different emotions is also cognitively draining. emotions is also cognitively draining. emotions is also cognitively draining. >> I don't know if I would use the word >> I don't know if I would use the word >> I don't know if I would use the word cognitive there, but it's absolutely cognitive there, but it's absolutely cognitive there, but it's absolutely draining. Right? So periods of extended draining. Right? So periods of extended draining. Right? So periods of extended arousal and this is where like I'm when arousal and this is where like I'm when arousal and this is where like I'm when I mean cognitive draining I'm referring I mean cognitive draining I'm referring I mean cognitive draining I'm referring to a you know a paper that's looking at to a you know a paper that's looking at to a you know a paper that's looking at the anterior singulate cortex. So I and the anterior singulate cortex. So I and the anterior singulate cortex. So I and that's where when the anterior singulate that's where when the anterior singulate that's where when the anterior singulate cortex and your frontal loes are cortex and your frontal loes are cortex and your frontal loes are suppressing your lyic system that's very suppressing your lyic system that's very suppressing your lyic system that's very draining draining draining >> but I think high levels of arousal right >> but I think high levels of arousal right >> but I think high levels of arousal right through the reticular activating through the reticular activating through the reticular activating formation and things like that just formation and things like that just formation and things like that just being on emotionally hyperactivation of being on emotionally hyperactivation of being on emotionally hyperactivation of your lyic system is absolutely your lyic system is absolutely your lyic system is absolutely exhausting is the word that I would use. exhausting is the word that I would use. exhausting is the word that I would use. You mentioned distress tolerance is a is You mentioned distress tolerance is a is You mentioned distress tolerance is a is a valuable skill to have. Uh it feels a valuable skill to have. Uh it feels a valuable skill to have. Uh it feels appropriate to say okay um distress appropriate to say okay um distress appropriate to say okay um distress tolerance I totally agree great to be tolerance I totally agree great to be tolerance I totally agree great to be able to you know tolerate distress to a able to you know tolerate distress to a able to you know tolerate distress to a point but that sounds like it's very point but that sounds like it's very point but that sounds like it's very cognitively and generally draining. So, cognitively and generally draining. So, cognitively and generally draining. So, how would you encourage someone to how would you encourage someone to how would you encourage someone to develop healthy levels of distress develop healthy levels of distress develop healthy levels of distress tolerance? But if that involves, you tolerance? But if that involves, you tolerance? But if that involves, you know, constant suppression of of an know, constant suppression of of an know, constant suppression of of an impulse to to shout, to react, that impulse to to shout, to react, that impulse to to shout, to react, that sounds like it could get very unhealthy. sounds like it could get very unhealthy. sounds like it could get very unhealthy. So, I realize we're taking we're sort of So, I realize we're taking we're sort of So, I realize we're taking we're sort of staying on this tangent, but I feel like staying on this tangent, but I feel like staying on this tangent, but I feel like what defines healthy distress tolerance what defines healthy distress tolerance what defines healthy distress tolerance if pushing back an emotional reaction or if pushing back an emotional reaction or if pushing back an emotional reaction or pushing down an emotional reaction is pushing down an emotional reaction is pushing down an emotional reaction is not good for us. So distress tolerance not good for us. So distress tolerance not good for us. So distress tolerance doesn't only include emotional doesn't only include emotional doesn't only include emotional suppression, suppression, suppression, right? So what's really interesting right? So what's really interesting right? So what's really interesting about distress tolerance is a key uh about distress tolerance is a key uh about distress tolerance is a key uh feature of distress tolerance is not feature of distress tolerance is not feature of distress tolerance is not even suppressing is the opposite is even suppressing is the opposite is even suppressing is the opposite is accepting your emotions. It's actually accepting your emotions. It's actually accepting your emotions. It's actually moving in the opposite direction. moving in the opposite direction. moving in the opposite direction. >> Feeling your feelings. >> Feeling your feelings. >> Feeling your feelings. >> Feeling your feelings, right? >> Feeling your feelings, right? >> Feeling your feelings, right? Recognizing that you feel your feelings. Recognizing that you feel your feelings. Recognizing that you feel your feelings. >> What if um somebody feels extremely >> What if um somebody feels extremely >> What if um somebody feels extremely angry and they want to feel their angry and they want to feel their angry and they want to feel their feelings? What is a healthy way for them feelings? What is a healthy way for them feelings? What is a healthy way for them to do that? to do that? to do that? >> Three things. Okay. So, if you want to >> Three things. Okay. So, if you want to >> Three things. Okay. So, if you want to learn how to learn how to learn how to >> control your emotions, you want to be >> control your emotions, you want to be >> control your emotions, you want to be tranquil in the face of your emotions is tranquil in the face of your emotions is tranquil in the face of your emotions is what I would say. Three things you can what I would say. Three things you can what I would say. Three things you can do. The first thing is do. The first thing is do. The first thing is >> um putting words to your emotion. >> um putting words to your emotion. >> um putting words to your emotion. >> So, the moment that so right now, if you >> So, the moment that so right now, if you >> So, the moment that so right now, if you I don't know if this kind of makes I don't know if this kind of makes I don't know if this kind of makes sense. The more angry you are, right? sense. The more angry you are, right? sense. The more angry you are, right? The more your amygdala is like The more your amygdala is like The more your amygdala is like hyperactive, it is drowning out every hyperactive, it is drowning out every hyperactive, it is drowning out every other part of your brain. other part of your brain. other part of your brain. So the first thing that you have to do So the first thing that you have to do So the first thing that you have to do is put words to it. And when you put is put words to it. And when you put is put words to it. And when you put words to it, you can't put words to ah words to it, you can't put words to ah words to it, you can't put words to ah there's no word there. So the moment there's no word there. So the moment there's no word there. So the moment that you try to put words to it, it has that you try to put words to it, it has that you try to put words to it, it has to calm down to calm down to calm down >> in order for your linguistic centers >> in order for your linguistic centers >> in order for your linguistic centers broke his area and all these in order broke his area and all these in order broke his area and all these in order for them to like articulate it, you have for them to like articulate it, you have for them to like articulate it, you have to understand it. So Freud understood to understand it. So Freud understood to understand it. So Freud understood this like over a hundred years ago. And this like over a hundred years ago. And this like over a hundred years ago. And there's something powerful about there's something powerful about there's something powerful about processing emotions by putting them into processing emotions by putting them into processing emotions by putting them into words. in order to put words to it, we words. in order to put words to it, we words. in order to put words to it, we have to tone it down some. So that's the have to tone it down some. So that's the have to tone it down some. So that's the first thing. The problem is that people first thing. The problem is that people first thing. The problem is that people oftentimes think that that is oftentimes think that that is oftentimes think that that is sufficient, right? So people will say, sufficient, right? So people will say, sufficient, right? So people will say, "Journal, go see a therapist and talk "Journal, go see a therapist and talk "Journal, go see a therapist and talk about your feelings." Man, the number of about your feelings." Man, the number of about your feelings." Man, the number of times that I've had like I had this times that I've had like I had this times that I've had like I had this patient who came in, if I can tell a patient who came in, if I can tell a patient who came in, if I can tell a story, story, story, >> please, >> please, >> please, >> you know, and so like I was a third-year >> you know, and so like I was a third-year >> you know, and so like I was a third-year resident. I'd done maybe like 100 hours, resident. I'd done maybe like 100 hours, resident. I'd done maybe like 100 hours, 200 hours of psychotherapy. So I I had a 200 hours of psychotherapy. So I I had a 200 hours of psychotherapy. So I I had a guy come in, he'd been in the clinic for guy come in, he'd been in the clinic for guy come in, he'd been in the clinic for eight years, had depression, was a dude eight years, had depression, was a dude eight years, had depression, was a dude in his 40s. He came in and he would tell in his 40s. He came in and he would tell in his 40s. He came in and he would tell me about why he was sad every day. Like me about why he was sad every day. Like me about why he was sad every day. Like every week he'd come in, he's like, "I every week he'd come in, he's like, "I every week he'd come in, he's like, "I got I got written up at work. People are got I got written up at work. People are got I got written up at work. People are complaining because I snapped at them. complaining because I snapped at them. complaining because I snapped at them. You know, one of the patients is You know, one of the patients is You know, one of the patients is complaining because I didn't give them complaining because I didn't give them complaining because I didn't give them benzo." And so he'd come in every every benzo." And so he'd come in every every benzo." And so he'd come in every every week. He'd talk about why he was week. He'd talk about why he was week. He'd talk about why he was depressed. I'd be like, "Why are you depressed. I'd be like, "Why are you depressed. I'd be like, "Why are you depressed, bro?" And he'd like tell me depressed, bro?" And he'd like tell me depressed, bro?" And he'd like tell me some story about something bad that some story about something bad that some story about something bad that happened in his life. And then we did happened in his life. And then we did happened in his life. And then we did this for six months. And like I didn't this for six months. And like I didn't this for six months. And like I didn't know cuz I I'm like learning know cuz I I'm like learning know cuz I I'm like learning psychotherapy, right? So, I'm like, I'm psychotherapy, right? So, I'm like, I'm psychotherapy, right? So, I'm like, I'm supposed to be supportive and I'm supposed to be supportive and I'm supposed to be supportive and I'm supposed to be like, okay, like that supposed to be like, okay, like that supposed to be like, okay, like that must be hard for you. How does that make must be hard for you. How does that make must be hard for you. How does that make you feel? That must be so hard for you. you feel? That must be so hard for you. you feel? That must be so hard for you. How does that make you feel? That must How does that make you feel? That must How does that make you feel? That must be so hard for you. We do this dance for be so hard for you. We do this dance for be so hard for you. We do this dance for like 6 months. Then one day he comes in like 6 months. Then one day he comes in like 6 months. Then one day he comes in and I'm kind of getting frustrated. I'm and I'm kind of getting frustrated. I'm and I'm kind of getting frustrated. I'm like, hey, is this helping? And he's like, hey, is this helping? And he's like, hey, is this helping? And he's like, what do you mean is it helping? like, what do you mean is it helping? like, what do you mean is it helping? I'm like, is it helping? Do you feel any I'm like, is it helping? Do you feel any I'm like, is it helping? Do you feel any better than when you came in six months better than when you came in six months better than when you came in six months ago? And he's like, I thought this is ago? And he's like, I thought this is ago? And he's like, I thought this is what we're supposed to do. I'm just what we're supposed to do. I'm just what we're supposed to do. I'm just supposed to come in every week. I tell supposed to come in every week. I tell supposed to come in every week. I tell you about how I'm sad and then you tell you about how I'm sad and then you tell you about how I'm sad and then you tell me it must be like, isn't that what me it must be like, isn't that what me it must be like, isn't that what psychotherapy is? And it was a huge psychotherapy is? And it was a huge psychotherapy is? And it was a huge light bulb moment for me because talking light bulb moment for me because talking light bulb moment for me because talking about your feelings, especially for men, about your feelings, especially for men, about your feelings, especially for men, is not enough much of the time. is not enough much of the time. is not enough much of the time. Fascinating neuroscience and Fascinating neuroscience and Fascinating neuroscience and endocrinology behind that. Putting words endocrinology behind that. Putting words endocrinology behind that. Putting words to it is just step one. Second thing, to it is just step one. Second thing, to it is just step one. Second thing, this is a really important skill, this is a really important skill, this is a really important skill, cultivating additional emotions. So if cultivating additional emotions. So if cultivating additional emotions. So if you look at people who are resilient, if you look at people who are resilient, if you look at people who are resilient, if you tunnel down into the internal you tunnel down into the internal you tunnel down into the internal dialogue of people who are resilient, dialogue of people who are resilient, dialogue of people who are resilient, you'll notice that they do something you'll notice that they do something you'll notice that they do something some some interesting things. So my some some interesting things. So my some some interesting things. So my patients who are very severely ill, patients who are very severely ill, patients who are very severely ill, right? And literally what I try to do right? And literally what I try to do right? And literally what I try to do with them over the course of weeks is with them over the course of weeks is with them over the course of weeks is this thing happened this thing happened this thing happened and I feel overwhelming shame the moment and I feel overwhelming shame the moment and I feel overwhelming shame the moment that you start cultivating additional that you start cultivating additional that you start cultivating additional emotions. So I I've been dumped by my emotions. So I I've been dumped by my emotions. So I I've been dumped by my boyfriend or my girlfriend. I'm really boyfriend or my girlfriend. I'm really boyfriend or my girlfriend. I'm really really depressed. I'm going to be alone really depressed. I'm going to be alone really depressed. I'm going to be alone for the rest of my life. They start to for the rest of my life. They start to for the rest of my life. They start to catastrophize. They have a lot of catastrophize. They have a lot of catastrophize. They have a lot of negative emotion. And it's really easy negative emotion. And it's really easy negative emotion. And it's really easy in that moment to forget that, okay, I in that moment to forget that, okay, I in that moment to forget that, okay, I had three years of wonderful experiences had three years of wonderful experiences had three years of wonderful experiences with this person before things went with this person before things went with this person before things went downhill. It's really easy to forget all downhill. It's really easy to forget all downhill. It's really easy to forget all of the positives. It's really easy to of the positives. It's really easy to of the positives. It's really easy to realize that three years of experience realize that three years of experience realize that three years of experience followed by, let's say, one year of a followed by, let's say, one year of a followed by, let's say, one year of a toxic relationship is going to actually toxic relationship is going to actually toxic relationship is going to actually protect you from the next toxic protect you from the next toxic protect you from the next toxic relationship. So cultivating additional relationship. So cultivating additional relationship. So cultivating additional emotions is a huge fundamental part of emotions is a huge fundamental part of emotions is a huge fundamental part of EQ and is you don't just have to EQ and is you don't just have to EQ and is you don't just have to tolerate it or suppress it. These are tolerate it or suppress it. These are tolerate it or suppress it. These are the additional things that you can do. the additional things that you can do. the additional things that you can do. And this is really important. It's not And this is really important. It's not And this is really important. It's not just cultivating positive emotions when just cultivating positive emotions when just cultivating positive emotions when you're feeling negative emotions. It's you're feeling negative emotions. It's you're feeling negative emotions. It's the other way around as well. I've seen the other way around as well. I've seen the other way around as well. I've seen more relationships ruined by falling in more relationships ruined by falling in more relationships ruined by falling in love than anything else. And you just love than anything else. And you just love than anything else. And you just fall in love with the wrong person. fall in love with the wrong person. fall in love with the wrong person. You're in a relationship and you fall in You're in a relationship and you fall in You're in a relationship and you fall in love with somebody else. So many people love with somebody else. So many people love with somebody else. So many people I've worked with, you know, I have this I've worked with, you know, I have this I've worked with, you know, I have this great business idea and I get so excited great business idea and I get so excited great business idea and I get so excited about it and like I'm going to start about it and like I'm going to start about it and like I'm going to start this AI company. That's the time that this AI company. That's the time that this AI company. That's the time that you actually want to cultivate negative you actually want to cultivate negative you actually want to cultivate negative emotion. Cultivate a little bit of emotion. Cultivate a little bit of emotion. Cultivate a little bit of anxiety. What could go wrong? Make sure anxiety. What could go wrong? Make sure anxiety. What could go wrong? Make sure you ask yourself that question. Like you ask yourself that question. Like you ask yourself that question. Like literally in addiction psychiatry, we we literally in addiction psychiatry, we we literally in addiction psychiatry, we we have a cool technique that we use with have a cool technique that we use with have a cool technique that we use with people where it doesn't really work so people where it doesn't really work so people where it doesn't really work so much anymore, but we tell people to play much anymore, but we tell people to play much anymore, but we tell people to play the tape through to the end. you're the tape through to the end. you're the tape through to the end. you're really excited right now and you want to really excited right now and you want to really excited right now and you want to do this thing, but play the tape through do this thing, but play the tape through do this thing, but play the tape through the end. What are all of the negative the end. What are all of the negative the end. What are all of the negative things that could happen? So that things that could happen? So that things that could happen? So that cognitive flexibility, that emotional cognitive flexibility, that emotional cognitive flexibility, that emotional flexibility is really important. We have flexibility is really important. We have flexibility is really important. We have to understand what emotions are. So a to understand what emotions are. So a to understand what emotions are. So a lot of times, you know, this is going lot of times, you know, this is going lot of times, you know, this is going around on the internet where like feel around on the internet where like feel around on the internet where like feel your feelings, right? Like I'm just your feelings, right? Like I'm just your feelings, right? Like I'm just going to authentically I'm going to be going to authentically I'm going to be going to authentically I'm going to be authentic with my feelings today, which authentic with my feelings today, which authentic with my feelings today, which means that you're an Andrew, means that you're an Andrew, means that you're an Andrew, and I'm just this is my truth, right? and I'm just this is my truth, right? and I'm just this is my truth, right? So, we've started like speaking our So, we've started like speaking our So, we've started like speaking our truths as excuses to being truths as excuses to being truths as excuses to being Like, that's what's happening on the Like, that's what's happening on the Like, that's what's happening on the internet. It's what's happening in in internet. It's what's happening in in internet. It's what's happening in in real relationships because people are real relationships because people are real relationships because people are watching social media and they're like, watching social media and they're like, watching social media and they're like, I should speak my truth. Right? So, the I should speak my truth. Right? So, the I should speak my truth. Right? So, the other thing that's really important is other thing that's really important is other thing that's really important is to understand that an emotion is not a to understand that an emotion is not a to understand that an emotion is not a behavior. An emotion is literally from behavior. An emotion is literally from behavior. An emotion is literally from an evolutionary perspective and you may an evolutionary perspective and you may an evolutionary perspective and you may know this better than I do is know this better than I do is know this better than I do is information and is motivation. That's information and is motivation. That's information and is motivation. That's what emotions are for. So when you feel what emotions are for. So when you feel what emotions are for. So when you feel fear when you're walking outside fear when you're walking outside fear when you're walking outside going to the walking to the outhouse in going to the walking to the outhouse in going to the walking to the outhouse in the middle of the night and you feel the middle of the night and you feel the middle of the night and you feel fear that is all this all this sensory fear that is all this all this sensory fear that is all this all this sensory input is being processed in parts of input is being processed in parts of input is being processed in parts of your brain that you have no conscious your brain that you have no conscious your brain that you have no conscious awareness of. The first thing that awareness of. The first thing that awareness of. The first thing that happens is that you feel emotion before happens is that you feel emotion before happens is that you feel emotion before you have any logical idea of what are you have any logical idea of what are you have any logical idea of what are you even scared of. That is your brain you even scared of. That is your brain you even scared of. That is your brain telling you something. The other thing telling you something. The other thing telling you something. The other thing is it's motivation, right? I feel like is it's motivation, right? I feel like is it's motivation, right? I feel like running away. And this is where running away. And this is where running away. And this is where unfortunately our brain evolved for a unfortunately our brain evolved for a unfortunately our brain evolved for a world that we don't live in anymore. So, world that we don't live in anymore. So, world that we don't live in anymore. So, you know, back when I used to feel fear you know, back when I used to feel fear you know, back when I used to feel fear because I was being hunted by a tiger. because I was being hunted by a tiger. because I was being hunted by a tiger. The natural impulses that our fear The natural impulses that our fear The natural impulses that our fear encourage us to do don't work when encourage us to do don't work when encourage us to do don't work when you've got to pay rent at the end of the you've got to pay rent at the end of the you've got to pay rent at the end of the month or you've got to pay your mortgage month or you've got to pay your mortgage month or you've got to pay your mortgage or you've got to do well on your or you've got to do well on your or you've got to do well on your performance review. So oftent times what performance review. So oftent times what performance review. So oftent times what we do is we think that feeling we do is we think that feeling we do is we think that feeling authentically means letting our emotion authentically means letting our emotion authentically means letting our emotion run the show. We don't want to do that. run the show. We don't want to do that. run the show. We don't want to do that. We want to ask ourselves what is this We want to ask ourselves what is this We want to ask ourselves what is this emotion telling me? Why do I feel fear? emotion telling me? Why do I feel fear? emotion telling me? Why do I feel fear? What am I, you know, what am I afraid What am I, you know, what am I afraid What am I, you know, what am I afraid of? And I don't even think what am I of? And I don't even think what am I of? And I don't even think what am I afraid of is the right question. It's afraid of is the right question. It's afraid of is the right question. It's way too like self-help. Mhm. way too like self-help. Mhm. way too like self-help. Mhm. >> It's it's way too psychotherapy for me. >> It's it's way too psychotherapy for me. >> It's it's way too psychotherapy for me. It's what is my fear telling me? It's what is my fear telling me? It's what is my fear telling me? >> What is the information and motivation >> What is the information and motivation >> What is the information and motivation that it's signaling? that it's signaling? that it's signaling? >> Yeah. And then what is it what is it >> Yeah. And then what is it what is it >> Yeah. And then what is it what is it telling me to do? telling me to do? telling me to do? >> Like your client who was feeling very >> Like your client who was feeling very >> Like your client who was feeling very anxious all the time. Um by exploring anxious all the time. Um by exploring anxious all the time. Um by exploring that emotion eventually it sounds like that emotion eventually it sounds like that emotion eventually it sounds like came to the understanding that it wasn't came to the understanding that it wasn't came to the understanding that it wasn't the job for him. the job for him. the job for him. >> Perfect. Right. That this is not the and >> Perfect. Right. That this is not the and >> Perfect. Right. That this is not the and and so he's trying so hard. Right. So and so he's trying so hard. Right. So and so he's trying so hard. Right. So the anxiety is like clinging on to his the anxiety is like clinging on to his the anxiety is like clinging on to his job, but actually once you understand job, but actually once you understand job, but actually once you understand the emotion, it's actually walking away. the emotion, it's actually walking away. the emotion, it's actually walking away. >> And so once you have mastery over your >> And so once you have mastery over your >> And so once you have mastery over your emotions in this way, and I think emotions in this way, and I think emotions in this way, and I think mastery is maybe a better word, it makes mastery is maybe a better word, it makes mastery is maybe a better word, it makes life like so much better, right? That life like so much better, right? That life like so much better, right? That that's when we talk about distress that's when we talk about distress that's when we talk about distress tolerance, like that's what I'm talking tolerance, like that's what I'm talking tolerance, like that's what I'm talking about. It's not just suppression. about. It's not just suppression. about. It's not just suppression. >> Wonderful. I I so appreciate your >> Wonderful. I I so appreciate your >> Wonderful. I I so appreciate your answer. The thoroughess of it, the answer. The thoroughess of it, the answer. The thoroughess of it, the clarity of it. Distress tolerance is clarity of it. Distress tolerance is clarity of it. Distress tolerance is putting words to emotion, adding putting words to emotion, adding putting words to emotion, adding additional language to it and exploring additional language to it and exploring additional language to it and exploring the the reverse context, the the as well the the reverse context, the the as well the the reverse context, the the as well the negative aspects of positive the negative aspects of positive the negative aspects of positive emotions, the positive aspects. So, emotions, the positive aspects. So, emotions, the positive aspects. So, sounds like it's broadening the the the sounds like it's broadening the the the sounds like it's broadening the the the time domain like thinking about this in time domain like thinking about this in time domain like thinking about this in going forward. What does this represent going forward. What does this represent going forward. What does this represent in the past, present, and and future? in the past, present, and and future? in the past, present, and and future? And then really thinking about what the And then really thinking about what the And then really thinking about what the emotion is signaling. What a beautiful emotion is signaling. What a beautiful emotion is signaling. What a beautiful description of distress tolerance description of distress tolerance description of distress tolerance because it's also um operational. people because it's also um operational. people because it's also um operational. people can put this to to work. Thank you. can put this to to work. Thank you. can put this to to work. Thank you. That's fantastic. That's fantastic. That's fantastic. 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Yeah. >> If you could spell out for for us what >> If you could spell out for for us what >> If you could spell out for for us what do you think of as the road map to to do you think of as the road map to to do you think of as the road map to to navigate this very complex landscape navigate this very complex landscape navigate this very complex landscape that we exist in now. that we exist in now. that we exist in now. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> And this could be relationship with this >> And this could be relationship with this >> And this could be relationship with this person. It could be um be a doctor, go person. It could be um be a doctor, go person. It could be um be a doctor, go to an Ivy League school versus be an to an Ivy League school versus be an to an Ivy League school versus be an artist or you know um any number of artist or you know um any number of artist or you know um any number of different examples where we have to make different examples where we have to make different examples where we have to make the distinction of what's wished for us the distinction of what's wished for us the distinction of what's wished for us and expected of us versus what is true and expected of us versus what is true and expected of us versus what is true to us on the inside. to us on the inside. to us on the inside. >> That's that seems to be where to me >> That's that seems to be where to me >> That's that seems to be where to me where the where the friction of life where the where the friction of life where the where the friction of life exists. exists. exists. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> That to me is the most interesting >> That to me is the most interesting >> That to me is the most interesting question in life frankly. You know, question in life frankly. You know, question in life frankly. You know, >> let me just make sure I understand your >> let me just make sure I understand your >> let me just make sure I understand your question. question. question. The friction and joy of life is the rest The friction and joy of life is the rest The friction and joy of life is the rest of the world wants me to do all of these of the world wants me to do all of these of the world wants me to do all of these things. And sometimes this things. And sometimes this things. And sometimes this doesn't want to do those things. doesn't want to do those things. doesn't want to do those things. Sometimes it does want to do those Sometimes it does want to do those Sometimes it does want to do those things. When do I listen to this? And things. When do I listen to this? And things. When do I listen to this? And when do I listen to everything that? when do I listen to everything that? when do I listen to everything that? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Right. Okay. Beautiful question. So >> Right. Okay. Beautiful question. So >> Right. Okay. Beautiful question. So this is where I'm going to lean into the this is where I'm going to lean into the this is where I'm going to lean into the eastern stuff for a second. So I spent eastern stuff for a second. So I spent eastern stuff for a second. So I spent seven years studying to become a monk. seven years studying to become a monk. seven years studying to become a monk. And uh then I I went to medical school And uh then I I went to medical school And uh then I I went to medical school and I became a psychiatrist. And the and I became a psychiatrist. And the and I became a psychiatrist. And the really interesting I had a really weird really interesting I had a really weird really interesting I had a really weird experience of training in psychiatry experience of training in psychiatry experience of training in psychiatry because everyone was teaching me how the because everyone was teaching me how the because everyone was teaching me how the mind works. Okay? And this is like good mind works. Okay? And this is like good mind works. Okay? And this is like good teachers at like the Harvard Medical teachers at like the Harvard Medical teachers at like the Harvard Medical School and they're like here's how the School and they're like here's how the School and they're like here's how the mind works and this is what the mind works and this is what the mind works and this is what the subconscious is and like there's subconscious is and like there's subconscious is and like there's cognitive behavioral therapy. Right? So cognitive behavioral therapy. Right? So cognitive behavioral therapy. Right? So like Aaron back taught us that there's like Aaron back taught us that there's like Aaron back taught us that there's like thoughts, emotions and behaviors like thoughts, emotions and behaviors like thoughts, emotions and behaviors and all these these things connect. And and all these these things connect. And and all these these things connect. And the really fascinating thing my most the really fascinating thing my most the really fascinating thing my most instinctive response when people would instinctive response when people would instinctive response when people would tell me how it is is no it's not. tell me how it is is no it's not. tell me how it is is no it's not. So in the east they have a completely So in the east they have a completely So in the east they have a completely different conception of mind. And here's different conception of mind. And here's different conception of mind. And here's the big problem with the western the big problem with the western the big problem with the western conception of mind. You're a scientist conception of mind. You're a scientist conception of mind. You're a scientist right? How do you learn about something, right? How do you learn about something, right? How do you learn about something, Andrew? Andrew? Andrew? >> You have a question. >> You have a question. >> You have a question. >> Okay, good. >> Okay, good. >> Okay, good. >> You pose a hypothesis. >> You pose a hypothesis. >> You pose a hypothesis. >> Excellent. >> Excellent. >> Excellent. >> You design an experiment. Good. >> You design an experiment. Good. >> You design an experiment. Good. >> Where you isolate variables. Okay. >> Where you isolate variables. Okay. >> Where you isolate variables. Okay. >> And you either um refute or you in some >> And you either um refute or you in some >> And you either um refute or you in some sense support your hypothesis. Okay. sense support your hypothesis. Okay. sense support your hypothesis. Okay. >> And then you design another experiment, >> And then you design another experiment, >> And then you design another experiment, >> ask another question. You just you just >> ask another question. You just you just >> ask another question. You just you just keep going and then you get tenure and keep going and then you get tenure and keep going and then you get tenure and then you start a podcast. Beautiful, then you start a podcast. Beautiful, then you start a podcast. Beautiful, right? Just kidding. right? Just kidding. right? Just kidding. >> So, so let me ask you this. How do you >> So, so let me ask you this. How do you >> So, so let me ask you this. How do you study the mind? study the mind? study the mind? >> Here's what's really interesting, right? >> Here's what's really interesting, right? >> Here's what's really interesting, right? So, so here's what's really fascinating. So, so here's what's really fascinating. So, so here's what's really fascinating. Like, do we have any scientific evidence Like, do we have any scientific evidence Like, do we have any scientific evidence of the existence of thought? of the existence of thought? of the existence of thought? >> We could define thoughts as some pattern >> We could define thoughts as some pattern >> We could define thoughts as some pattern of network activity. of network activity. of network activity. >> What I mean is like if we lit literally >> What I mean is like if we lit literally >> What I mean is like if we lit literally look at it, we have no instrument that look at it, we have no instrument that look at it, we have no instrument that can detect a thought. can detect a thought. can detect a thought. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> Right. So, we have we have no proof. We >> Right. So, we have we have no proof. We >> Right. So, we have we have no proof. We cannot measure a thought. like it is cannot measure a thought. like it is cannot measure a thought. like it is like literally impossible. We can like literally impossible. We can like literally impossible. We can measure blood flow to the brain. We can measure blood flow to the brain. We can measure blood flow to the brain. We can measure electrical activity in the measure electrical activity in the measure electrical activity in the brain. We can induce thoughts, brain. We can induce thoughts, brain. We can induce thoughts, >> right? We can we can do that. But we >> right? We can we can do that. But we >> right? We can we can do that. But we have we have no idea that a thought have we have no idea that a thought have we have no idea that a thought exists. So like psychiatry is weird exists. So like psychiatry is weird exists. So like psychiatry is weird because every other part of medicine and because every other part of medicine and because every other part of medicine and science we can measure what we are science we can measure what we are science we can measure what we are studying. studying. studying. >> In psychiatry we can't do that. So along >> In psychiatry we can't do that. So along >> In psychiatry we can't do that. So along came Freud and he made a fascinating came Freud and he made a fascinating came Freud and he made a fascinating discovery which is when a human being discovery which is when a human being discovery which is when a human being speaks speaks speaks we understand something about what's in we understand something about what's in we understand something about what's in their mind and the whole reason we get their mind and the whole reason we get their mind and the whole reason we get trained and the reason that we we can trained and the reason that we we can trained and the reason that we we can measure mental we can me measure your measure mental we can me measure your measure mental we can me measure your mind right so we have validated mind right so we have validated mind right so we have validated scientific instruments using things like scientific instruments using things like scientific instruments using things like factor analysis and stuff like that factor analysis and stuff like that factor analysis and stuff like that where we can use the Beck depression where we can use the Beck depression where we can use the Beck depression inventory which will tell you how inventory which will tell you how inventory which will tell you how depressed you are we have good ways to depressed you are we have good ways to depressed you are we have good ways to measure stuff so there's a lot of measure stuff so there's a lot of measure stuff so there's a lot of science in psychiatry. The basic problem science in psychiatry. The basic problem science in psychiatry. The basic problem though is that we have a fundamental though is that we have a fundamental though is that we have a fundamental problem. We cannot we have no insight problem. We cannot we have no insight problem. We cannot we have no insight into what is in someone's we have into what is in someone's we have into what is in someone's we have insight into someone's mind but we can't insight into someone's mind but we can't insight into someone's mind but we can't detect the mind. detect the mind. detect the mind. >> That is a fundamental problem with >> That is a fundamental problem with >> That is a fundamental problem with science. Okay, science. Okay, science. Okay, >> here's the cool thing. We have no >> here's the cool thing. We have no >> here's the cool thing. We have no scientific measurement of thought. scientific measurement of thought. scientific measurement of thought. But we as human beings have measurement But we as human beings have measurement But we as human beings have measurement of thoughts. Can I ever know what you of thoughts. Can I ever know what you of thoughts. Can I ever know what you are thinking using any instrument of are thinking using any instrument of are thinking using any instrument of science? You're the psychiatrist, so I'm science? You're the psychiatrist, so I'm science? You're the psychiatrist, so I'm tempted to say yes, but no. tempted to say yes, but no. tempted to say yes, but no. >> No. Right. Can you know what you're >> No. Right. Can you know what you're >> No. Right. Can you know what you're thinking? thinking? thinking? >> I would like to think so, but I'm >> I would like to think so, but I'm >> I would like to think so, but I'm guessing I'm guessing I mean I I can ask guessing I'm guessing I mean I I can ask guessing I'm guessing I mean I I can ask myself what's going on in there, but I myself what's going on in there, but I myself what's going on in there, but I don't necessar necessarily have the don't necessar necessarily have the don't necessar necessarily have the ability to put language to it in a way ability to put language to it in a way ability to put language to it in a way that captures what that captures what that captures what >> you are capable of observing your >> you are capable of observing your >> you are capable of observing your thoughts. thoughts. thoughts. >> You are capable of I'm not capable of >> You are capable of I'm not capable of >> You are capable of I'm not capable of observing your thoughts, but you can observing your thoughts, but you can observing your thoughts, but you can whether you detect all of them, whether whether you detect all of them, whether whether you detect all of them, whether they're right or wrong, that's question they're right or wrong, that's question they're right or wrong, that's question is separate. just the fundamental idea is separate. just the fundamental idea is separate. just the fundamental idea of like you can measure an axon you can of like you can measure an axon you can of like you can measure an axon you can you can detect your thought right you can detect your thought right you can detect your thought right >> we all live in this way yeah right so >> we all live in this way yeah right so >> we all live in this way yeah right so that we can get to the edge cases later that we can get to the edge cases later that we can get to the edge cases later >> so here's the cool thing so when I went >> so here's the cool thing so when I went >> so here's the cool thing so when I went to India and I I studied for seven years to India and I I studied for seven years to India and I I studied for seven years the difference between the psychology the difference between the psychology the difference between the psychology that was developed from the that was developed from the that was developed from the contemplative traditions is it's its contemplative traditions is it's its contemplative traditions is it's its foundation is internal observation foundation is internal observation foundation is internal observation so yogis are cap we're all it's not like so yogis are cap we're all it's not like so yogis are cap we're all it's not like some special ability but they based some special ability but they based some special ability but they based their theory of mind on what they could their theory of mind on what they could their theory of mind on what they could observe. Whereas in the west that is not observe. Whereas in the west that is not observe. Whereas in the west that is not something we have access to. So their something we have access to. So their something we have access to. So their theory of mind is very different. So theory of mind is very different. So theory of mind is very different. So when I was training to become a when I was training to become a when I was training to become a psychiatrist, people were like this is psychiatrist, people were like this is psychiatrist, people were like this is how the mind works and I'm like no how the mind works and I'm like no how the mind works and I'm like no that's not true. Right? There is a that's not true. Right? There is a that's not true. Right? There is a different way. So here's one example different way. So here's one example different way. So here's one example getting to the road map. So the biggest getting to the road map. So the biggest getting to the road map. So the biggest thing that I think is different is the thing that I think is different is the thing that I think is different is the ego. So in the east they have the ego. So in the east they have the ego. So in the east they have the concept of a part of our mind that is concept of a part of our mind that is concept of a part of our mind that is the ego. the ego. the ego. And in the west we use the word ego. And in the west we use the word ego. And in the west we use the word ego. Freud defined it in some way. We all Freud defined it in some way. We all Freud defined it in some way. We all have this intuitive sense of identity. have this intuitive sense of identity. have this intuitive sense of identity. But in the same way that logic and But in the same way that logic and But in the same way that logic and emotions interact in a very mechanistic emotions interact in a very mechanistic emotions interact in a very mechanistic and defined way in the west our model and defined way in the west our model and defined way in the west our model does not include this piece and the road does not include this piece and the road does not include this piece and the road map that you're talking about has to do map that you're talking about has to do map that you're talking about has to do with that piece. So if the rest of the with that piece. So if the rest of the with that piece. So if the rest of the world because things get complicated, world because things get complicated, world because things get complicated, right? That's why it's so exciting for right? That's why it's so exciting for right? That's why it's so exciting for you and so challenging. Things get you and so challenging. Things get you and so challenging. Things get complicated. Everyone wants you to be complicated. Everyone wants you to be complicated. Everyone wants you to be something and then we make a big mistake something and then we make a big mistake something and then we make a big mistake because we do this thing called because we do this thing called because we do this thing called internalize. internalize. internalize. And the moment that you internalize now, And the moment that you internalize now, And the moment that you internalize now, is it coming from the outside or is it is it coming from the outside or is it is it coming from the outside or is it coming from you? Is this something that coming from you? Is this something that coming from you? Is this something that I've been conditioned to want or is it I've been conditioned to want or is it I've been conditioned to want or is it something that I truly want? Which then something that I truly want? Which then something that I truly want? Which then begs the question, what the hell is begs the question, what the hell is begs the question, what the hell is truly want? truly want? truly want? Is there a difference between want from Is there a difference between want from Is there a difference between want from over here and want from over there? And over here and want from over there? And over here and want from over there? And the yogis will say that the answer is the yogis will say that the answer is the yogis will say that the answer is yes. So once you understand the ego and yes. So once you understand the ego and yes. So once you understand the ego and the ego functions in a couple of ways. the ego functions in a couple of ways. the ego functions in a couple of ways. If I ask you Andrew who are you what If I ask you Andrew who are you what If I ask you Andrew who are you what would you say would you say would you say >> Andrew? >> Andrew? >> Andrew? >> Okay. Is that it? >> Okay. Is that it? >> Okay. Is that it? >> I mean I have a list of roles that I >> I mean I have a list of roles that I >> I mean I have a list of roles that I occupy in life. occupy in life. occupy in life. >> Very good. >> Very good. >> Very good. >> Are those you? >> Are those you? >> Are those you? >> They're facets of me. >> They're facets of me. >> They're facets of me. >> Okay. Right. So anything that you can >> Okay. Right. So anything that you can >> Okay. Right. So anything that you can use to describe tenure professor at use to describe tenure professor at use to describe tenure professor at Stanford. Stanford. Stanford. >> Right. I wouldn't put that first, but >> Right. I wouldn't put that first, but >> Right. I wouldn't put that first, but that happens to be true. I'm a brother. that happens to be true. I'm a brother. that happens to be true. I'm a brother. >> Brother, >> Brother, >> Brother, >> I'm a boyfriend. >> I'm a boyfriend. >> I'm a boyfriend. >> Once a skater, always a skater. But yes, >> Once a skater, always a skater. But yes, >> Once a skater, always a skater. But yes, I'm a public educator. I'm a public educator. I'm a public educator. >> Great. >> Great. >> Great. >> I'm a son, a friend. >> I'm a son, a friend. >> I'm a son, a friend. >> All of that stuff is ego. >> All of that stuff is ego. >> All of that stuff is ego. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Okay. So, ego is anything when you say I >> Okay. So, ego is anything when you say I >> Okay. So, ego is anything when you say I am dot dot dot, anything that defines am dot dot dot, anything that defines am dot dot dot, anything that defines you after that is actually part of your you after that is actually part of your you after that is actually part of your ego. ego. ego. >> And and the interesting thing is that >> And and the interesting thing is that >> And and the interesting thing is that it's not that the ego is bad. This is a it's not that the ego is bad. This is a it's not that the ego is bad. This is a common misconception, but like ego, we common misconception, but like ego, we common misconception, but like ego, we all need ego to function in in the all need ego to function in in the all need ego to function in in the world. Um, if you are okay not world. Um, if you are okay not world. Um, if you are okay not functioning in the world and you're functioning in the world and you're functioning in the world and you're moving towards enlightenment, then you moving towards enlightenment, then you moving towards enlightenment, then you no longer need ego. But generally no longer need ego. But generally no longer need ego. But generally speaking, we need ego. So, you know, if speaking, we need ego. So, you know, if speaking, we need ego. So, you know, if you're looking for a road map of what you're looking for a road map of what you're looking for a road map of what you truly want in life and what is you truly want in life and what is you truly want in life and what is healthy for you and not healthy for you, healthy for you and not healthy for you, healthy for you and not healthy for you, when you say you're Andrew, right, when you say you're Andrew, right, when you say you're Andrew, right, there's a lot of other people who can there's a lot of other people who can there's a lot of other people who can claim to be Andrew, but they're not you. claim to be Andrew, but they're not you. claim to be Andrew, but they're not you. You're talking about a a fundamental You're talking about a a fundamental You're talking about a a fundamental internal experience of the self. And you internal experience of the self. And you internal experience of the self. And you were Andrew before you were a a were Andrew before you were a a were Andrew before you were a a boyfriend. You were Andrew. You've boyfriend. You were Andrew. You've boyfriend. You were Andrew. You've always been a son, but you actually you always been a son, but you actually you always been a son, but you actually you were Andrew before you even knew you were Andrew before you even knew you were Andrew before you even knew you were a son. Right. were a son. Right. were a son. Right. >> Right. You were still Andrew. So there's >> Right. You were still Andrew. So there's >> Right. You were still Andrew. So there's a fundamental like bundle of experience. a fundamental like bundle of experience. a fundamental like bundle of experience. That's really what you are. And I think That's really what you are. And I think That's really what you are. And I think that the best road map if you're trying that the best road map if you're trying that the best road map if you're trying to figure out what to do in life, try to to figure out what to do in life, try to to figure out what to do in life, try to peel away the layers of your ego. And I peel away the layers of your ego. And I peel away the layers of your ego. And I know that's getting complicated, but if know that's getting complicated, but if know that's getting complicated, but if we sort of think about like, you know, we sort of think about like, you know, we sort of think about like, you know, what is it that like practically gets us what is it that like practically gets us what is it that like practically gets us jammed up in life is when I try to be jammed up in life is when I try to be jammed up in life is when I try to be something. something. something. >> I know this is going to sound weird. I'm >> I know this is going to sound weird. I'm >> I know this is going to sound weird. I'm sure you have ambition, but I don't sure you have ambition, but I don't sure you have ambition, but I don't think you are where you are because of think you are where you are because of think you are where you are because of your ambition. I think you are where you your ambition. I think you are where you your ambition. I think you are where you are because you listen to this internal are because you listen to this internal are because you listen to this internal voice, not try to live up to external voice, not try to live up to external voice, not try to live up to external expectations. expectations. expectations. >> 100%. I I can truly say that every >> 100%. I I can truly say that every >> 100%. I I can truly say that every choice I've made to get into, you know, choice I've made to get into, you know, choice I've made to get into, you know, fish and animals when I was a kid, fish and animals when I was a kid, fish and animals when I was a kid, obsessed with birds and fish and then obsessed with birds and fish and then obsessed with birds and fish and then skateboarding and then biology and skateboarding and then biology and skateboarding and then biology and science and where I'm at now has has science and where I'm at now has has science and where I'm at now has has been some sense of an internal passion been some sense of an internal passion been some sense of an internal passion and something pulling me from the and something pulling me from the and something pulling me from the outside and it's just a I just go. outside and it's just a I just go. outside and it's just a I just go. >> Right. Those choices were always made >> Right. Those choices were always made >> Right. Those choices were always made because I knew in my heart's heart there because I knew in my heart's heart there because I knew in my heart's heart there was no other option in in the positive was no other option in in the positive was no other option in in the positive sense. sense. sense. >> Yes, >> Yes, >> Yes, >> I'm going like I'm pulled toward it and >> I'm going like I'm pulled toward it and >> I'm going like I'm pulled toward it and I'm driven and I'm driven toward it. I'm driven and I'm driven toward it. I'm driven and I'm driven toward it. >> Right. So So you are listening to a part >> Right. So So you are listening to a part >> Right. So So you are listening to a part of you, of you, of you, >> right? So it is an internal thing that >> right? So it is an internal thing that >> right? So it is an internal thing that the world then meets you halfway. So it the world then meets you halfway. So it the world then meets you halfway. So it it makes it possible where there's a it makes it possible where there's a it makes it possible where there's a whole thing about that. whole thing about that. whole thing about that. >> For me it's a physical energy. >> For me it's a physical energy. >> For me it's a physical energy. >> Fine. If I feel physical energy coming >> Fine. If I feel physical energy coming >> Fine. If I feel physical energy coming up in my body and I want to move towards up in my body and I want to move towards up in my body and I want to move towards something and for some reason I feel it something and for some reason I feel it something and for some reason I feel it more in my left arm than anywhere else. more in my left arm than anywhere else. more in my left arm than anywhere else. This has always been true. I I'll have a This has always been true. I I'll have a This has always been true. I I'll have a thought and I know and that's when I go, thought and I know and that's when I go, thought and I know and that's when I go, "Oh my goodness, I'm going to do this "Oh my goodness, I'm going to do this "Oh my goodness, I'm going to do this thing. I know I'm going to do it and thing. I know I'm going to do it and thing. I know I'm going to do it and there's no backing out because it it has there's no backing out because it it has there's no backing out because it it has to happen. That's that's how it feels." to happen. That's that's how it feels." to happen. That's that's how it feels." >> Yeah. Right. So, so, so any desire that >> Yeah. Right. So, so, so any desire that >> Yeah. Right. So, so, so any desire that you have that comes from the sense you have that comes from the sense you have that comes from the sense organs is probably not this thing. So, organs is probably not this thing. So, organs is probably not this thing. So, the the sense organs can trigger the the sense organs can trigger the the sense organs can trigger something within you. But if we look at something within you. But if we look at something within you. But if we look at like, you know, social media, half the like, you know, social media, half the like, you know, social media, half the problem is that the hardest problem I problem is that the hardest problem I problem is that the hardest problem I have as a psychiatrist is convincing have as a psychiatrist is convincing have as a psychiatrist is convincing people that they don't really want the people that they don't really want the people that they don't really want the things that they say they want. It's things that they say they want. It's things that they say they want. It's like so crazy, right? Like we're being like so crazy, right? Like we're being like so crazy, right? Like we're being programmed. We're being conditioned. programmed. We're being conditioned. programmed. We're being conditioned. And I realized this the other day when And I realized this the other day when And I realized this the other day when like I was like, man, like I wish I like I was like, man, like I wish I like I was like, man, like I wish I talked to my agent about like like doing talked to my agent about like like doing talked to my agent about like like doing more talks. Like I want to go someplace more talks. Like I want to go someplace more talks. Like I want to go someplace and like get like paid speaking and like get like paid speaking and like get like paid speaking engagements. And I realized I I actually engagements. And I realized I I actually engagements. And I realized I I actually hate that. I I don't like that. It's hate that. I I don't like that. It's hate that. I I don't like that. It's just what I thought people like us do. just what I thought people like us do. just what I thought people like us do. And I've done a couple of them which And I've done a couple of them which And I've done a couple of them which have been really fantastic and I really have been really fantastic and I really have been really fantastic and I really enjoy that. But I like sitting with enjoy that. But I like sitting with enjoy that. But I like sitting with people, right? So we're we're trained. people, right? So we're we're trained. people, right? So we're we're trained. And just think about it. Like anyone And just think about it. Like anyone And just think about it. Like anyone who's listening to this, think about all who's listening to this, think about all who's listening to this, think about all the that you've seen that you think the that you've seen that you think the that you've seen that you think you want, but you don't really want. You you want, but you don't really want. You you want, but you don't really want. You just like look at other people and just like look at other people and just like look at other people and you're like, "Yeah, I want that thing." you're like, "Yeah, I want that thing." you're like, "Yeah, I want that thing." It can be a particular kind of It can be a particular kind of It can be a particular kind of relationship. It can be a particular relationship. It can be a particular relationship. It can be a particular job. Like, you know, we all want like job. Like, you know, we all want like job. Like, you know, we all want like all this random stuff. It's all coming all this random stuff. It's all coming all this random stuff. It's all coming from our sense organs, right? This is from our sense organs, right? This is from our sense organs, right? This is why advertising is a thing. So, stepping why advertising is a thing. So, stepping why advertising is a thing. So, stepping away from sense organs is really away from sense organs is really away from sense organs is really important for that road map. Second important for that road map. Second important for that road map. Second thing is anything that you want that is thing is anything that you want that is thing is anything that you want that is a comparison a comparison a comparison that is born of the ego. The ego is what that is born of the ego. The ego is what that is born of the ego. The ego is what defines you. Right? So we can say defines you. Right? So we can say defines you. Right? So we can say tenur professor we can say associate tenur professor we can say associate tenur professor we can say associate part-time instructor. And so any part-time instructor. And so any part-time instructor. And so any comparison requires a definition. Does comparison requires a definition. Does comparison requires a definition. Does that kind of make sense? Yeah. that kind of make sense? Yeah. that kind of make sense? Yeah. >> Like so all of the gold medalist, silver >> Like so all of the gold medalist, silver >> Like so all of the gold medalist, silver medalist, bronze medalist, that's a medalist, bronze medalist, that's a medalist, bronze medalist, that's a comparative thing. If I say I'm a silver comparative thing. If I say I'm a silver comparative thing. If I say I'm a silver medalist, then my desire for the gold medalist, then my desire for the gold medalist, then my desire for the gold medal can come out of the ego. Does that medal can come out of the ego. Does that medal can come out of the ego. Does that kind of make sense? kind of make sense? kind of make sense? >> Yes, it makes. The reason I'm I'm sort >> Yes, it makes. The reason I'm I'm sort >> Yes, it makes. The reason I'm I'm sort of uh with my hand below my lip is of uh with my hand below my lip is of uh with my hand below my lip is because I I I'm so struck by this because I I I'm so struck by this because I I I'm so struck by this because I've had this feeling for a because I've had this feeling for a because I've had this feeling for a while now that most of the danger in while now that most of the danger in while now that most of the danger in life um comes from the need the feeling life um comes from the need the feeling life um comes from the need the feeling that we need to prove something to that we need to prove something to that we need to prove something to others or to ourselves. others or to ourselves. others or to ourselves. >> Yep. And yet I know it's healthy to >> Yep. And yet I know it's healthy to >> Yep. And yet I know it's healthy to prove things to myself. Like it's felt prove things to myself. Like it's felt prove things to myself. Like it's felt good to be able to accomplish certain good to be able to accomplish certain good to be able to accomplish certain things. You know, I did that. Like I things. You know, I did that. Like I things. You know, I did that. Like I could do other difficult things. But the could do other difficult things. But the could do other difficult things. But the origin of of all of that work origin of of all of that work origin of of all of that work for in my mind, it's only healthy, at for in my mind, it's only healthy, at for in my mind, it's only healthy, at least for me, if it's not by virtue of least for me, if it's not by virtue of least for me, if it's not by virtue of trying to prove something. It's like trying to prove something. It's like trying to prove something. It's like there's a difference between a genuine there's a difference between a genuine there's a difference between a genuine heart's desire, for lack of a better way heart's desire, for lack of a better way heart's desire, for lack of a better way to put it, and what you're calling a a a to put it, and what you're calling a a a to put it, and what you're calling a a a pursuit of of trying to win at some game pursuit of of trying to win at some game pursuit of of trying to win at some game in one's head. It's like a video game in one's head. It's like a video game in one's head. It's like a video game that that isn't real. that that isn't real. that that isn't real. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's it's not that it's not real, right? It's it's not that it's not real, right? It's it's not that it's not real, right? So So I I I I agree with you 100% and I So So I I I I agree with you 100% and I So So I I I I agree with you 100% and I think there's a couple of important think there's a couple of important think there's a couple of important things. So you know proving yourself is things. So you know proving yourself is things. So you know proving yourself is not wholly wrong not wholly wrong not wholly wrong >> but understand that it is the ego that's >> but understand that it is the ego that's >> but understand that it is the ego that's what it's going to gratify what it's going to gratify what it's going to gratify >> right so if you have an ego of I am a >> right so if you have an ego of I am a >> right so if you have an ego of I am a loser by all means so this is part of loser by all means so this is part of loser by all means so this is part of the the process I have people in my the the process I have people in my the the process I have people in my office who are losers for lack of a office who are losers for lack of a office who are losers for lack of a better term 29 years old living at home better term 29 years old living at home better term 29 years old living at home playing video games all day watching playing video games all day watching playing video games all day watching pornography no job dropped out of pornography no job dropped out of pornography no job dropped out of college college college >> and and so what they want more than >> and and so what they want more than >> and and so what they want more than anything else is to be a winner. And so anything else is to be a winner. And so anything else is to be a winner. And so my work involves two steps. First, let's my work involves two steps. First, let's my work involves two steps. First, let's help you be go from loser to winner. And help you be go from loser to winner. And help you be go from loser to winner. And then let's abandon the whole paradigm then let's abandon the whole paradigm then let's abandon the whole paradigm because I've also had people in my because I've also had people in my because I've also had people in my office who are billionaires and finally office who are billionaires and finally office who are billionaires and finally get to retire at the age of 52 after get to retire at the age of 52 after get to retire at the age of 52 after having sold their amazing third company having sold their amazing third company having sold their amazing third company and then after retirement it's not and then after retirement it's not and then after retirement it's not enough. They want to make another enough. They want to make another enough. They want to make another billion. They want to do something else. billion. They want to do something else. billion. They want to do something else. So like you know that that loser to So like you know that that loser to So like you know that that loser to winner like your mind will continually winner like your mind will continually winner like your mind will continually move the goalposts if you were hungry move the goalposts if you were hungry move the goalposts if you were hungry before you got it. The thing won't before you got it. The thing won't before you got it. The thing won't fulfill your hunger. It may for a little fulfill your hunger. It may for a little fulfill your hunger. It may for a little while and then you have to take another while and then you have to take another while and then you have to take another step of like okay losing and winning is step of like okay losing and winning is step of like okay losing and winning is now done right and I I I think you've now done right and I I I think you've now done right and I I I think you've gone through that. I can hear it in your gone through that. I can hear it in your gone through that. I can hear it in your words and people can probably hear it words and people can probably hear it words and people can probably hear it too. the way that probably at some point too. the way that probably at some point too. the way that probably at some point in your life in your life in your life being a tenure prof I don't know why I'm being a tenure prof I don't know why I'm being a tenure prof I don't know why I'm that's just the thing that that is the that's just the thing that that is the that's just the thing that that is the thing that people are the lustiest for thing that people are the lustiest for thing that people are the lustiest for right in the world that I think we come right in the world that I think we come right in the world that I think we come from from from >> it it felt good to get >> it it felt good to get >> it it felt good to get >> right >> right >> right >> and I won't lie it felt good to get at a >> and I won't lie it felt good to get at a >> and I won't lie it felt good to get at a place like Stanford even though there place like Stanford even though there place like Stanford even though there are many fantastic Yep are many fantastic Yep are many fantastic Yep >> and extremely challenging places to >> and extremely challenging places to >> and extremely challenging places to >> to achieve that it felt like the um >> to achieve that it felt like the um >> to achieve that it felt like the um culmination of you know 20 years of culmination of you know 20 years of culmination of you know 20 years of very hard work that I enjoyed but that very hard work that I enjoyed but that very hard work that I enjoyed but that you know it represented an important you know it represented an important you know it represented an important milestone for me but I knew I'll just milestone for me but I knew I'll just milestone for me but I knew I'll just say and of course we're just we're say and of course we're just we're say and of course we're just we're talking about this example but hopefully talking about this example but hopefully talking about this example but hopefully people are thinking about examples in people are thinking about examples in people are thinking about examples in their own lives their own lives their own lives >> but I knew for instance I never want to >> but I knew for instance I never want to >> but I knew for instance I never want to be a department chair. be a department chair. be a department chair. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Tons of work doing administrative stuff. >> Tons of work doing administrative stuff. >> Tons of work doing administrative stuff. I remember when they told me you'll be I remember when they told me you'll be I remember when they told me you'll be vice chair and I'm like oh my goodness vice chair and I'm like oh my goodness vice chair and I'm like oh my goodness what do I have to do to avoid that? I what do I have to do to avoid that? I what do I have to do to avoid that? I also knew that I didn't care about being also knew that I didn't care about being also knew that I didn't care about being a member of the National Academy. A a member of the National Academy. A a member of the National Academy. A close childhood friend of mine was just close childhood friend of mine was just close childhood friend of mine was just elected to the National Academy of elected to the National Academy of elected to the National Academy of Sciences. We've been friends since we Sciences. We've been friends since we Sciences. We've been friends since we were seven. And I was I'm so happy for were seven. And I was I'm so happy for were seven. And I was I'm so happy for him because he's doing exactly what he him because he's doing exactly what he him because he's doing exactly what he loves. But I never aspired to be a loves. But I never aspired to be a loves. But I never aspired to be a member of the National Academy ever. member of the National Academy ever. member of the National Academy ever. Why? Because what came after tenure in Why? Because what came after tenure in Why? Because what came after tenure in order to go there was a divergence from order to go there was a divergence from order to go there was a divergence from what I really wanted to do. what I really wanted to do. what I really wanted to do. >> Yeah. So I I think this is the key thing >> Yeah. So I I think this is the key thing >> Yeah. So I I think this is the key thing about the road map, right? So like we about the road map, right? So like we about the road map, right? So like we get conditioned by our sense organs. So get conditioned by our sense organs. So get conditioned by our sense organs. So like just to keep it super practical, if like just to keep it super practical, if like just to keep it super practical, if you're trying to figure out what you you're trying to figure out what you you're trying to figure out what you should do. Is this coming from my sense should do. Is this coming from my sense should do. Is this coming from my sense organs? If your sense organ triggers organs? If your sense organ triggers organs? If your sense organ triggers something that's always been been within something that's always been been within something that's always been been within you, right? So if you see like a frog you, right? So if you see like a frog you, right? So if you see like a frog and like like you really want to be and like like you really want to be and like like you really want to be interested like you want to figure out interested like you want to figure out interested like you want to figure out how the frog works, but the interesting how the frog works, but the interesting how the frog works, but the interesting thing about the difference between the thing about the difference between the thing about the difference between the sense organ thing and an internal drive sense organ thing and an internal drive sense organ thing and an internal drive is your internal drive will find is your internal drive will find is your internal drive will find multiple objects in the outside world, multiple objects in the outside world, multiple objects in the outside world, right? So first it was biology, then it right? So first it was biology, then it right? So first it was biology, then it was frogs, now it's neuroopthmology, now was frogs, now it's neuroopthmology, now was frogs, now it's neuroopthmology, now it's this. So I don't know if that this it's this. So I don't know if that this it's this. So I don't know if that this kind of makes sense. The drive is always kind of makes sense. The drive is always kind of makes sense. The drive is always the same and it it'll encounter the same and it it'll encounter the same and it it'll encounter different things in the world. different things in the world. different things in the world. >> Yes. What is that drive? >> Yes. What is that drive? >> Yes. What is that drive? >> We'll get to that in a second. Okay. So >> We'll get to that in a second. Okay. So >> We'll get to that in a second. Okay. So first thing for practically is like if first thing for practically is like if first thing for practically is like if you're trying to figure out what should you're trying to figure out what should you're trying to figure out what should I do first ask yourself how have you I do first ask yourself how have you I do first ask yourself how have you been conditioned by social media? Move been conditioned by social media? Move been conditioned by social media? Move away from that. Second thing is be away from that. Second thing is be away from that. Second thing is be careful about any comparisons you make, careful about any comparisons you make, careful about any comparisons you make, any motivation that you have to because any motivation that you have to because any motivation that you have to because of a comparison. It can lead to success. of a comparison. It can lead to success. of a comparison. It can lead to success. You can be successful but you won't be You can be successful but you won't be You can be successful but you won't be happy happy happy >> because this is it's so annoying, right? >> because this is it's so annoying, right? >> because this is it's so annoying, right? So when when I want like I I work with a So when when I want like I I work with a So when when I want like I I work with a lot of influencers and and YouTubers and lot of influencers and and YouTubers and lot of influencers and and YouTubers and stuff and so it's like oh we want our stuff and so it's like oh we want our stuff and so it's like oh we want our first million and if you're not careful first million and if you're not careful first million and if you're not careful the moment that you get your first the moment that you get your first the moment that you get your first million like you want a second million million like you want a second million million like you want a second million and then you want a third million and and then you want a third million and and then you want a third million and then it's even scarier, right? So, like, then it's even scarier, right? So, like, then it's even scarier, right? So, like, oh, I got three million subscribers. oh, I got three million subscribers. oh, I got three million subscribers. That's awesome. But then, you know That's awesome. But then, you know That's awesome. But then, you know what's really terrifying, Andrew, is a what's really terrifying, Andrew, is a what's really terrifying, Andrew, is a guy who started after me is getting guy who started after me is getting guy who started after me is getting followers faster than I'm getting them, followers faster than I'm getting them, followers faster than I'm getting them, right? And so, the ego is never going to right? And so, the ego is never going to right? And so, the ego is never going to be satisfied. The ego by its nature is be satisfied. The ego by its nature is be satisfied. The ego by its nature is comparative. And even if you're number comparative. And even if you're number comparative. And even if you're number one, people think this the most anxious one, people think this the most anxious one, people think this the most anxious people I've ever worked with, not people I've ever worked with, not people I've ever worked with, not actually true, but actually true, but actually true, but >> yeah. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> Is people who get to the top and you >> Is people who get to the top and you >> Is people who get to the top and you think that you're done. You're not done. think that you're done. You're not done. think that you're done. You're not done. Then you're looking behind you at all of Then you're looking behind you at all of Then you're looking behind you at all of the people who are younger, harder the people who are younger, harder the people who are younger, harder working, have the benefit of AI tools, working, have the benefit of AI tools, working, have the benefit of AI tools, have the benefit of of the the path that have the benefit of of the the path that have the benefit of of the the path that you have carved, who are catching up on you have carved, who are catching up on you have carved, who are catching up on you and and will overtake you soon you and and will overtake you soon you and and will overtake you soon enough. So one good example of why we enough. So one good example of why we enough. So one good example of why we get why we compare is the more you are get why we compare is the more you are get why we compare is the more you are judged, the more your ego grows and the judged, the more your ego grows and the judged, the more your ego grows and the more you will compare. Right? So this is more you will compare. Right? So this is more you will compare. Right? So this is almost like we're taught how to when almost like we're taught how to when almost like we're taught how to when people judge us, we judge ourselves and people judge us, we judge ourselves and people judge us, we judge ourselves and we get judged based on ranking we get judged based on ranking we get judged based on ranking >> and and so you know this is what we see >> and and so you know this is what we see >> and and so you know this is what we see on the internet as social media as we on the internet as social media as we on the internet as social media as we start to get judged more and more and start to get judged more and more and start to get judged more and more and more we become more and more more we become more and more more we become more and more narcissistic. This is the narcissistic narcissistic. This is the narcissistic narcissistic. This is the narcissistic defense that tries to protect us from defense that tries to protect us from defense that tries to protect us from judgment. Um and so it's happening to judgment. Um and so it's happening to judgment. Um and so it's happening to everybody and it's escalating the rate everybody and it's escalating the rate everybody and it's escalating the rate at which it's happening. people are more at which it's happening. people are more at which it's happening. people are more egotistical than they've ever been. egotistical than they've ever been. egotistical than they've ever been. >> Do you think that's um especially true >> Do you think that's um especially true >> Do you think that's um especially true for people who have large followings on for people who have large followings on for people who have large followings on social media? social media? social media? >> Absolutely. I mean, so so I work with >> Absolutely. I mean, so so I work with >> Absolutely. I mean, so so I work with with um with um with um influencers and was so curious about the influencers and was so curious about the influencers and was so curious about the work that I was doing that I tried to work that I was doing that I tried to work that I was doing that I tried to develop a program. So we now have like a develop a program. So we now have like a develop a program. So we now have like a creator coaching program where we're creator coaching program where we're creator coaching program where we're like collecting data about whether it's like collecting data about whether it's like collecting data about whether it's effective or not. Um and and so the effective or not. Um and and so the effective or not. Um and and so the really interesting thing is I think it's really interesting thing is I think it's really interesting thing is I think it's a unique like effect on our psychology. a unique like effect on our psychology. a unique like effect on our psychology. The closest thing is like you know a lot The closest thing is like you know a lot The closest thing is like you know a lot of celebrities are like really messed up of celebrities are like really messed up of celebrities are like really messed up and and that's because they have so many and and that's because they have so many and and that's because they have so many eyes on them and people don't realize eyes on them and people don't realize eyes on them and people don't realize just as a simple example just as a simple example just as a simple example the brain just doesn't think the brain just doesn't think the brain just doesn't think probabilistically. probabilistically. probabilistically. So you can have a thousand people love So you can have a thousand people love So you can have a thousand people love the work that you do but all it takes is the work that you do but all it takes is the work that you do but all it takes is one person who's really nasty. That is one person who's really nasty. That is one person who's really nasty. That is what your brain is going to focus on. what your brain is going to focus on. what your brain is going to focus on. It's going to highlight it's amazing. I It's going to highlight it's amazing. I It's going to highlight it's amazing. I can be looking at like chat that is can be looking at like chat that is can be looking at like chat that is scrolling during live streaming. They're scrolling during live streaming. They're scrolling during live streaming. They're messages that are faster than I can messages that are faster than I can messages that are faster than I can read, but if someone says something that read, but if someone says something that read, but if someone says something that is dangerous, my mind will flag it. is dangerous, my mind will flag it. is dangerous, my mind will flag it. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> It's like a predator on the horizon. >> It's like a predator on the horizon. >> It's like a predator on the horizon. >> Absolutely. So, so we have these >> Absolutely. So, so we have these >> Absolutely. So, so we have these circuits which which were designed to circuits which which were designed to circuits which which were designed to look at a jungle and see a single pair look at a jungle and see a single pair look at a jungle and see a single pair of tiger's eyes. And so the danger of tiger's eyes. And so the danger of tiger's eyes. And so the danger scanning mechanism makes it so that the scanning mechanism makes it so that the scanning mechanism makes it so that the bigger that you get and the more eyes bigger that you get and the more eyes bigger that you get and the more eyes that are on you, the more paranoid you that are on you, the more paranoid you that are on you, the more paranoid you have to be, the more narcissistic you have to be, the more narcissistic you have to be, the more narcissistic you will have to become. Because when will have to become. Because when will have to become. Because when someone turns to you and says, "You are someone turns to you and says, "You are someone turns to you and says, "You are ugly. You are stupid." In order to ugly. You are stupid." In order to ugly. You are stupid." In order to defend against that, you have to say, defend against that, you have to say, defend against that, you have to say, "No, I'm not. I am beautiful. I am "No, I'm not. I am beautiful. I am "No, I'm not. I am beautiful. I am intelligent." And the more times that intelligent." And the more times that intelligent." And the more times that you say that to yourself, it's this is you say that to yourself, it's this is you say that to yourself, it's this is where things get complicated. But you where things get complicated. But you where things get complicated. But you don't that doesn't result in confidence. don't that doesn't result in confidence. don't that doesn't result in confidence. So I I don't know if this makes sense, So I I don't know if this makes sense, So I I don't know if this makes sense, but if you are confident, you don't need but if you are confident, you don't need but if you are confident, you don't need to say that I'm smart or that I'm to say that I'm smart or that I'm to say that I'm smart or that I'm beautiful. Does that kind of make sense? beautiful. Does that kind of make sense? beautiful. Does that kind of make sense? >> What about the uh you know to each their >> What about the uh you know to each their >> What about the uh you know to each their own mindset? Like some people will like own mindset? Like some people will like own mindset? Like some people will like the content. I tell myself this, you the content. I tell myself this, you the content. I tell myself this, you know, some people will like the content know, some people will like the content know, some people will like the content and the way I frame it and um will look and the way I frame it and um will look and the way I frame it and um will look at it uh on the whole that, you know, at it uh on the whole that, you know, at it uh on the whole that, you know, some episodes more than others uh, you some episodes more than others uh, you some episodes more than others uh, you know, certain things and others won't. know, certain things and others won't. know, certain things and others won't. They'll they'll hate it for whatever They'll they'll hate it for whatever They'll they'll hate it for whatever reason or hate me for whatever reason. reason or hate me for whatever reason. reason or hate me for whatever reason. And I'm okay with that. Yeah. So, I And I'm okay with that. Yeah. So, I And I'm okay with that. Yeah. So, I think you're doing a really important think you're doing a really important think you're doing a really important thing which is like a key takeaway. So, thing which is like a key takeaway. So, thing which is like a key takeaway. So, when someone dislikes what you do, you when someone dislikes what you do, you when someone dislikes what you do, you think about them and not you. That's the think about them and not you. That's the think about them and not you. That's the opposite of ego, right? So, if we take opposite of ego, right? So, if we take opposite of ego, right? So, if we take someone who's very narcissistic and they someone who's very narcissistic and they someone who's very narcissistic and they receive a criticism, they say, "No, no, receive a criticism, they say, "No, no, receive a criticism, they say, "No, no, no. I'm great." Right? So, so this is no. I'm great." Right? So, so this is no. I'm great." Right? So, so this is where like literally I I don't know if where like literally I I don't know if where like literally I I don't know if this is too abstract, but I'll give kind this is too abstract, but I'll give kind this is too abstract, but I'll give kind of like maybe a simpler example of this. of like maybe a simpler example of this. of like maybe a simpler example of this. So, um I you know, I trained in Boston So, um I you know, I trained in Boston So, um I you know, I trained in Boston and there was a lot of K2 use. So, K2 is and there was a lot of K2 use. So, K2 is and there was a lot of K2 use. So, K2 is like synthetic marijuana. And, um so, like synthetic marijuana. And, um so, like synthetic marijuana. And, um so, like sometimes like you walk into the like sometimes like you walk into the like sometimes like you walk into the emergency room, there's there's a dude emergency room, there's there's a dude emergency room, there's there's a dude who's like high on math or like high on who's like high on math or like high on who's like high on math or like high on K2. like you know he's just saying all K2. like you know he's just saying all K2. like you know he's just saying all kinds of terrible things that has kinds of terrible things that has kinds of terrible things that has nothing to do with me nothing to do with me nothing to do with me >> right and the way that you framed some >> right and the way that you framed some >> right and the way that you framed some people are going to like what you do and people are going to like what you do and people are going to like what you do and some people are not going to like what some people are not going to like what some people are not going to like what you do that's on them you do that's on them you do that's on them >> so if we want to step away from the ego >> so if we want to step away from the ego >> so if we want to step away from the ego we have to understand that don't take it we have to understand that don't take it we have to understand that don't take it personally like literally that's the personally like literally that's the personally like literally that's the colloquial phrase right but it's hard to colloquial phrase right but it's hard to colloquial phrase right but it's hard to do so if if you're someone at home do so if if you're someone at home do so if if you're someone at home trying to figure out okay how do I trying to figure out okay how do I trying to figure out okay how do I connect with my true self how do I step connect with my true self how do I step connect with my true self how do I step away from my ego notice Notice your away from my ego notice Notice your away from my ego notice Notice your reaction to criticism. reaction to criticism. reaction to criticism. >> Is your reaction of criticism? Are you >> Is your reaction of criticism? Are you >> Is your reaction of criticism? Are you considering are you actually being considering are you actually being considering are you actually being empathic? empathic? empathic? >> Right? So what empathic really means is >> Right? So what empathic really means is >> Right? So what empathic really means is are you putting yourself in someone are you putting yourself in someone are you putting yourself in someone else's shoes and the other person hey else's shoes and the other person hey else's shoes and the other person hey maybe not everybody likes pineapple on maybe not everybody likes pineapple on maybe not everybody likes pineapple on pizza or are you taking it personally? pizza or are you taking it personally? pizza or are you taking it personally? Do their insults determine your value as Do their insults determine your value as Do their insults determine your value as a human being? And the moment that that a human being? And the moment that that a human being? And the moment that that starts to happen, the friction that starts to happen, the friction that starts to happen, the friction that you're talking about, which can be so you're talking about, which can be so you're talking about, which can be so fun, becomes torture because now you fun, becomes torture because now you fun, becomes torture because now you have to make them happy in order to feel have to make them happy in order to feel have to make them happy in order to feel good about yourself, you have to make good about yourself, you have to make good about yourself, you have to make the people around you happy. So the people around you happy. So the people around you happy. So interesting. I I think some of us grew interesting. I I think some of us grew interesting. I I think some of us grew up or somehow internalized the idea that up or somehow internalized the idea that up or somehow internalized the idea that if somebody is angry or is criticizing if somebody is angry or is criticizing if somebody is angry or is criticizing us and it's being delivered in a certain us and it's being delivered in a certain us and it's being delivered in a certain way way way that it must be true that it must be true that it must be true versus the ability to just really step versus the ability to just really step versus the ability to just really step back and assess, you know, no, it could back and assess, you know, no, it could back and assess, you know, no, it could very well be they're in a bad mood, they very well be they're in a bad mood, they very well be they're in a bad mood, they didn't sleep well. Um, you know, I grew didn't sleep well. Um, you know, I grew didn't sleep well. Um, you know, I grew up in a community of academics, some up in a community of academics, some up in a community of academics, some athletes, mostly academics. So, everyone athletes, mostly academics. So, everyone athletes, mostly academics. So, everyone around me wasn't necessarily around me wasn't necessarily around me wasn't necessarily hyperverbal, but you know this from hyperverbal, but you know this from hyperverbal, but you know this from training in Boston, there was a way of training in Boston, there was a way of training in Boston, there was a way of delivering a criticism that felt like a delivering a criticism that felt like a delivering a criticism that felt like a poison dart. poison dart. poison dart. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That would get right to the to the heart >> That would get right to the to the heart >> That would get right to the to the heart of it without calling somebody a name. of it without calling somebody a name. of it without calling somebody a name. This is actually a very prized skill in This is actually a very prized skill in This is actually a very prized skill in academia and medicine. I think it's one academia and medicine. I think it's one academia and medicine. I think it's one of the more sinister aspects of of of the more sinister aspects of of of the more sinister aspects of of higher education and medicine. Um, but higher education and medicine. Um, but higher education and medicine. Um, but it exists in every field. But people it exists in every field. But people it exists in every field. But people aren't going to say, "Oh, dude, you you aren't going to say, "Oh, dude, you you aren't going to say, "Oh, dude, you you know, like that was stupid." They're know, like that was stupid." They're know, like that was stupid." They're going to find a way to to kind of thread going to find a way to to kind of thread going to find a way to to kind of thread that that heat-seeking missile, right? that that heat-seeking missile, right? that that heat-seeking missile, right? And I think that sometimes getting to And I think that sometimes getting to And I think that sometimes getting to this thing about emotion versus this thing about emotion versus this thing about emotion versus language, language, language, the more primitive the expression, the I the more primitive the expression, the I the more primitive the expression, the I hate you. F you, like it's easier, like hate you. F you, like it's easier, like hate you. F you, like it's easier, like you said in the with the with the person you said in the with the with the person you said in the with the with the person in the clinic on K2, it's easier to say in the clinic on K2, it's easier to say in the clinic on K2, it's easier to say like they're crazy, they're on drugs, like they're crazy, they're on drugs, like they're crazy, they're on drugs, they are ill, but when something is they are ill, but when something is they are ill, but when something is delivered in a way that's um very delivered in a way that's um very delivered in a way that's um very articulate or calm, we tend to give it articulate or calm, we tend to give it articulate or calm, we tend to give it more credit as likely to be true. So on more credit as likely to be true. So on more credit as likely to be true. So on the internet, I see most of what comes the internet, I see most of what comes the internet, I see most of what comes at me that's negative as I I like to at me that's negative as I I like to at me that's negative as I I like to think there's also learning there, but think there's also learning there, but think there's also learning there, but if the way it's delivered, the way I've if the way it's delivered, the way I've if the way it's delivered, the way I've noticed things get past my force field noticed things get past my force field noticed things get past my force field is I go, "Oh, wait, wait, wait." Like is I go, "Oh, wait, wait, wait." Like is I go, "Oh, wait, wait, wait." Like they'll say like a PubMed ID. You don't they'll say like a PubMed ID. You don't they'll say like a PubMed ID. You don't know what you're talking about. They know what you're talking about. They know what you're talking about. They give me a pub. Then I'll go to the give me a pub. Then I'll go to the give me a pub. Then I'll go to the paper. I'm like, "That actually doesn't paper. I'm like, "That actually doesn't paper. I'm like, "That actually doesn't say that." But but in my mind, I say that." But but in my mind, I say that." But but in my mind, I thought, "Oh my goodness, I must have thought, "Oh my goodness, I must have thought, "Oh my goodness, I must have screwed up, right? They're not just screwed up, right? They're not just screwed up, right? They're not just telling me I'm wrong. They're telling me telling me I'm wrong. They're telling me telling me I'm wrong. They're telling me um that I'm wrong because of something um that I'm wrong because of something um that I'm wrong because of something on the Library of Congress PubMed. So, on the Library of Congress PubMed. So, on the Library of Congress PubMed. So, do you see what I'm saying? So, I think do you see what I'm saying? So, I think do you see what I'm saying? So, I think that knowing what our what our fences that knowing what our what our fences that knowing what our what our fences are good at filtering and not good at are good at filtering and not good at are good at filtering and not good at filtering is hard. It takes time. It filtering is hard. It takes time. It filtering is hard. It takes time. It takes years to cultivate. takes years to cultivate. takes years to cultivate. >> No, I would hope that it could be >> No, I would hope that it could be >> No, I would hope that it could be quicker, but it took me, excuse me, uh quicker, but it took me, excuse me, uh quicker, but it took me, excuse me, uh it took me many years to cultivate. it took me many years to cultivate. it took me many years to cultivate. >> Yeah. Let's just understand. So, it's >> Yeah. Let's just understand. So, it's >> Yeah. Let's just understand. So, it's it's hard to cultivate. It took years it's hard to cultivate. It took years it's hard to cultivate. It took years for you to cultivate because you didn't for you to cultivate because you didn't for you to cultivate because you didn't have a teacher. have a teacher. have a teacher. >> Right. Right. So let's be let's be a bit >> Right. Right. So let's be let's be a bit >> Right. Right. So let's be let's be a bit precise here. So like and and this is precise here. So like and and this is precise here. So like and and this is the key thing. So I I think I I hope the key thing. So I I think I I hope the key thing. So I I think I I hope people are following this because this people are following this because this people are following this because this is how you develop like so one of my uh is how you develop like so one of my uh is how you develop like so one of my uh you know colleagues in residency talked you know colleagues in residency talked you know colleagues in residency talked about this concept of a teflon Buddha about this concept of a teflon Buddha about this concept of a teflon Buddha right like you know like this idea of right like you know like this idea of right like you know like this idea of like being like impervious. So how do like being like impervious. So how do like being like impervious. So how do you become like psychologically you become like psychologically you become like psychologically impervious? And what you're talking impervious? And what you're talking impervious? And what you're talking about when you say a heat seeeking about when you say a heat seeeking about when you say a heat seeeking missile is your linguistic cortex is missile is your linguistic cortex is missile is your linguistic cortex is doing wonders because it what a poison doing wonders because it what a poison doing wonders because it what a poison dart right what they're doing the reason dart right what they're doing the reason dart right what they're doing the reason it's so effective Andrew is not just it's so effective Andrew is not just it's so effective Andrew is not just because of the anger. We'll get to the because of the anger. We'll get to the because of the anger. We'll get to the anger in a second but they are figuring anger in a second but they are figuring anger in a second but they are figuring out where your weak point is out where your weak point is out where your weak point is >> and they're they're attacking that weak >> and they're they're attacking that weak >> and they're they're attacking that weak point. It's not about the size of the point. It's not about the size of the point. It's not about the size of the missile. It's about the precision. Even missile. It's about the precision. Even missile. It's about the precision. Even in your language you are talking about a in your language you are talking about a in your language you are talking about a precise attack. So that precision is in precise attack. So that precision is in precise attack. So that precision is in academia, people are really good at academia, people are really good at academia, people are really good at detecting other people's vulnerabilities detecting other people's vulnerabilities detecting other people's vulnerabilities and they go for the nuts, right? That's and they go for the nuts, right? That's and they go for the nuts, right? That's what they do. Like psychologically, they what they do. Like psychologically, they what they do. Like psychologically, they go for the nutsh go for the nutsh go for the nutsh and and there's there's all kinds of and and there's there's all kinds of and and there's there's all kinds of other things going on here, but let's other things going on here, but let's other things going on here, but let's let's be simple. So it is when someone let's be simple. So it is when someone let's be simple. So it is when someone has a high anger attack, okay, this has a high anger attack, okay, this has a high anger attack, okay, this means their amygdala is through the means their amygdala is through the means their amygdala is through the roof. So they are thinking in black and roof. So they are thinking in black and roof. So they are thinking in black and white. their attack isn't black and white. their attack isn't black and white. their attack isn't black and white. A black and white attack is white. A black and white attack is white. A black and white attack is easier to repel because it's not easier to repel because it's not easier to repel because it's not nuanced. nuanced. nuanced. >> Okay. So, like when someone is angry, >> Okay. So, like when someone is angry, >> Okay. So, like when someone is angry, you're right. It is easier to dismiss you're right. It is easier to dismiss you're right. It is easier to dismiss their anger. And you were also correct their anger. And you were also correct their anger. And you were also correct that but it it it's almost like a not a that but it it it's almost like a not a that but it it it's almost like a not a everything you said is correct, but I'd everything you said is correct, but I'd everything you said is correct, but I'd say the model that you're assuming is say the model that you're assuming is say the model that you're assuming is that these are two opposite things. that these are two opposite things. that these are two opposite things. They're not. The other thing is so when They're not. The other thing is so when They're not. The other thing is so when someone is not angry, someone is not angry, someone is not angry, they are not black and white. If they're they are not black and white. If they're they are not black and white. If they're not black and white, it is not easy to not black and white, it is not easy to not black and white, it is not easy to dismiss. dismiss. dismiss. >> Mh. Just because it's not black and >> Mh. Just because it's not black and >> Mh. Just because it's not black and white, that doesn't activate your anger, white, that doesn't activate your anger, white, that doesn't activate your anger, it doesn't activate your black and white it doesn't activate your black and white it doesn't activate your black and white thinking. Right? So when someone is thinking. Right? So when someone is thinking. Right? So when someone is coming at me angry, my empathic circuits coming at me angry, my empathic circuits coming at me angry, my empathic circuits are going to activate my own amydala. are going to activate my own amydala. are going to activate my own amydala. I'm going to get angry back. You did I'm going to get angry back. You did I'm going to get angry back. You did this. No, I didn't. Right? So the most this. No, I didn't. Right? So the most this. No, I didn't. Right? So the most psychotic denial, psychotic or psychotic denial, psychotic or psychotic denial, psychotic or delusional denial, that's a better word. delusional denial, that's a better word. delusional denial, that's a better word. The most delusional denial that you'll The most delusional denial that you'll The most delusional denial that you'll ever hear is when someone's angry. No, I ever hear is when someone's angry. No, I ever hear is when someone's angry. No, I didn't do that. I never did that. I didn't do that. I never did that. I didn't do that. I never did that. I never did that. I never did that. I never did that. I never did that. I never did that. I never did that. I never And they can believe it because never And they can believe it because never And they can believe it because that's what happens. The amygdala makes that's what happens. The amygdala makes that's what happens. The amygdala makes your thinking black and white. You know, your thinking black and white. You know, your thinking black and white. You know, when we have adrenaline collapsing or when we have adrenaline collapsing or when we have adrenaline collapsing or running through our system, it collapses running through our system, it collapses running through our system, it collapses peripheral vision down to a 30° cone. peripheral vision down to a 30° cone. peripheral vision down to a 30° cone. So, we can only see this thing. So, this So, we can only see this thing. So, this So, we can only see this thing. So, this is the first element of why heat-seeking is the first element of why heat-seeking is the first element of why heat-seeking missiles work. When they come at you missiles work. When they come at you missiles work. When they come at you angry, you're going to get angry. If angry, you're going to get angry. If angry, you're going to get angry. If you're going to get angry, it doesn't you're going to get angry, it doesn't you're going to get angry, it doesn't matter if they're right, doesn't matter matter if they're right, doesn't matter matter if they're right, doesn't matter if they're wrong. You're going to say, if they're wrong. You're going to say, if they're wrong. You're going to say, "No, it's it's incorrect. Doesn't matter "No, it's it's incorrect. Doesn't matter "No, it's it's incorrect. Doesn't matter the truth of it." So, this is the first the truth of it." So, this is the first the truth of it." So, this is the first element of it, right? So is that that element of it, right? So is that that element of it, right? So is that that they don't approach you they approach they don't approach you they approach they don't approach you they approach you in an articulate way when they you in an articulate way when they you in an articulate way when they approach you in an articulate way approach you in an articulate way approach you in an articulate way doesn't activate your amydala it does in doesn't activate your amydala it does in doesn't activate your amydala it does in a different way but then then the issue a different way but then then the issue a different way but then then the issue is their finesse and you said a poison is their finesse and you said a poison is their finesse and you said a poison dart really interesting imagery it's dart really interesting imagery it's dart really interesting imagery it's something that hurts a little bit and something that hurts a little bit and something that hurts a little bit and then flows through your veins so I can then flows through your veins so I can then flows through your veins so I can even imagine when they said that problem even imagine when they said that problem even imagine when they said that problem ID your first thought was not a big deal ID your first thought was not a big deal ID your first thought was not a big deal I know my and then the poison goes I know my and then the poison goes I know my and then the poison goes into your mind well maybe I don't know into your mind well maybe I don't know into your mind well maybe I don't know my stuff oh my god what if there is my stuff oh my god what if there is my stuff oh my god what if there is piece of paper that I missed. What if piece of paper that I missed. What if piece of paper that I missed. What if there is something that I and and then there is something that I and and then there is something that I and and then that that injury will grow in your mind that that injury will grow in your mind that that injury will grow in your mind and and so all of your and this is the and and so all of your and this is the and and so all of your and this is the stuff right like the stuff that hurts us stuff right like the stuff that hurts us stuff right like the stuff that hurts us when people insult us. What hurts are when people insult us. What hurts are when people insult us. What hurts are the things we believe about oursel. You the things we believe about oursel. You the things we believe about oursel. You know, we all have these doubts because know, we all have these doubts because know, we all have these doubts because we're not perfect human beings because we're not perfect human beings because we're not perfect human beings because we make mistakes. And when someone we make mistakes. And when someone we make mistakes. And when someone figures out, oh my god, this is this is figures out, oh my god, this is this is figures out, oh my god, this is this is this person's weak point. And the really this person's weak point. And the really this person's weak point. And the really scary thing is that humans have evolved scary thing is that humans have evolved scary thing is that humans have evolved to do this. All you have to do is go to to do this. All you have to do is go to to do this. All you have to do is go to any recess in the fifth grade and kids any recess in the fifth grade and kids any recess in the fifth grade and kids will figure out what hurts and then they will figure out what hurts and then they will figure out what hurts and then they will say it to you again and again and will say it to you again and again and will say it to you again and again and again and again. But I I think it's again and again. But I I think it's again and again. But I I think it's really important to remember you know if really important to remember you know if really important to remember you know if something hurts that's your own something hurts that's your own something hurts that's your own insecurity and and insecurity remember insecurity and and insecurity remember insecurity and and insecurity remember if you say I am a loser I am fat I am if you say I am a loser I am fat I am if you say I am a loser I am fat I am ugly those are all part of your ego. So ugly those are all part of your ego. So ugly those are all part of your ego. So there are certain things that you can do there are certain things that you can do there are certain things that you can do and this goes back to the what is that and this goes back to the what is that and this goes back to the what is that voice on the inside? So this is where voice on the inside? So this is where voice on the inside? So this is where you know in the eastern system there is you know in the eastern system there is you know in the eastern system there is a self beyond the mind. So the mind is a self beyond the mind. So the mind is a self beyond the mind. So the mind is not what you are. The mind is an organ not what you are. The mind is an organ not what you are. The mind is an organ that you can observe in the same way that you can observe in the same way that you can observe in the same way that you can observe your hand. In the that you can observe your hand. In the that you can observe your hand. In the same way that your hand can change your same way that your hand can change your same way that your hand can change your mind can change. Your mind changes every mind can change. Your mind changes every mind can change. Your mind changes every day. day. day. >> What's the best way to learn to observe >> What's the best way to learn to observe >> What's the best way to learn to observe one's mind? Is it meditation? one's mind? Is it meditation? one's mind? Is it meditation? >> Probably the best way to observe your >> Probably the best way to observe your >> Probably the best way to observe your mind is actually psychotherapy. You'll mind is actually psychotherapy. You'll mind is actually psychotherapy. You'll get better insight into your mind there. get better insight into your mind there. get better insight into your mind there. But if you want to move beyond mind and But if you want to move beyond mind and But if you want to move beyond mind and I don't mean that in like a oh let's I don't mean that in like a oh let's I don't mean that in like a oh let's move beyond mind. What I mean is that if move beyond mind. What I mean is that if move beyond mind. What I mean is that if you look at your experience of you look at your experience of you look at your experience of existence, there is more to you than existence, there is more to you than existence, there is more to you than thoughts, emotions, and ego. And so if thoughts, emotions, and ego. And so if thoughts, emotions, and ego. And so if you want to get to that and step outside you want to get to that and step outside you want to get to that and step outside of your ego, meditation is the best of your ego, meditation is the best of your ego, meditation is the best thing for that. And there are lots of thing for that. And there are lots of thing for that. And there are lots of studies that suggest that meditation studies that suggest that meditation studies that suggest that meditation shuts off the default mode network. shuts off the default mode network. shuts off the default mode network. Default mode network is our sense of Default mode network is our sense of Default mode network is our sense of like self. Um there are also many like self. Um there are also many like self. Um there are also many studies that show that you can predict studies that show that you can predict studies that show that you can predict the therapeutic benefit of a psychedelic the therapeutic benefit of a psychedelic the therapeutic benefit of a psychedelic trip based on an ego death experience. trip based on an ego death experience. trip based on an ego death experience. So if someone has an ego death So if someone has an ego death So if someone has an ego death experience when they are using experience when they are using experience when they are using psychedelics, there's a greater psychedelics, there's a greater psychedelics, there's a greater likelihood that they heal from it, which likelihood that they heal from it, which likelihood that they heal from it, which has to do with deactivation of the has to do with deactivation of the has to do with deactivation of the default mode network. default mode network. default mode network. >> When you say psychedelics, are there >> When you say psychedelics, are there >> When you say psychedelics, are there particular psychedelics that tend to particular psychedelics that tend to particular psychedelics that tend to promote ego death more than others? promote ego death more than others? promote ego death more than others? >> I don't know the answer to that >> I don't know the answer to that >> I don't know the answer to that question, but I would say that most of question, but I would say that most of question, but I would say that most of the studies that I've seen are in the studies that I've seen are in the studies that I've seen are in psilocybin, but there that that's just psilocybin, but there that that's just psilocybin, but there that that's just because there are more studies on because there are more studies on because there are more studies on psilocybin, I think. Um, arguably, you psilocybin, I think. Um, arguably, you psilocybin, I think. Um, arguably, you know, MDMA will do it too because MDMA know, MDMA will do it too because MDMA know, MDMA will do it too because MDMA is an empathogen and will help people is an empathogen and will help people is an empathogen and will help people form bonds and kind of changes their form bonds and kind of changes their form bonds and kind of changes their perception of the self, right? perception of the self, right? perception of the self, right? >> Um, so meditation is the best way to >> Um, so meditation is the best way to >> Um, so meditation is the best way to dissolve your ego like that. I believe dissolve your ego like that. I believe dissolve your ego like that. I believe >> I'd like to take a quick break and >> I'd like to take a quick break and >> I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, acknowledge one of our sponsors, acknowledge one of our sponsors, Function. 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Function currently has a wait list of Function currently has a wait list of Function currently has a wait list of over 250,000 people, but they're over 250,000 people, but they're over 250,000 people, but they're offering early access to Huberman offering early access to Huberman offering early access to Huberman podcast listeners. Again, that's podcast listeners. Again, that's podcast listeners. Again, that's functionhealth.com/huberman functionhealth.com/huberman functionhealth.com/huberman to get early access to function. to get early access to function. to get early access to function. Meditation potentially in an safe Meditation potentially in an safe Meditation potentially in an safe clinical setting may be exploring ego clinical setting may be exploring ego clinical setting may be exploring ego dissolution through psychedelics. dissolution through psychedelics. dissolution through psychedelics. Although there's still schedule one drug Although there's still schedule one drug Although there's still schedule one drug so we have to have to be thoughtful and so we have to have to be thoughtful and so we have to have to be thoughtful and how I communicate this not just to how I communicate this not just to how I communicate this not just to protect myself but protect other people. protect myself but protect other people. protect myself but protect other people. I know we I normally say that but I know we I normally say that but I know we I normally say that but >> yeah I always uh just raise it just to >> yeah I always uh just raise it just to >> yeah I always uh just raise it just to be clear what we're talking about. But I be clear what we're talking about. But I be clear what we're talking about. But I I I I understood your your position on I I I understood your your position on I I I understood your your position on that. The thing inside that we know is that. The thing inside that we know is that. The thing inside that we know is our true heart's desire that allows us our true heart's desire that allows us our true heart's desire that allows us to navigate the external pressures and to navigate the external pressures and to navigate the external pressures and the the roles, these these ego labels the the roles, these these ego labels the the roles, these these ego labels that we've given ourselves and that that we've given ourselves and that that we've given ourselves and that others have given us. Um do you know any others have given us. Um do you know any others have given us. Um do you know any practices to help cultivate practices to help cultivate practices to help cultivate being in touch with that? being in touch with that? being in touch with that? >> Yeah, absolutely. So the meditation that >> Yeah, absolutely. So the meditation that >> Yeah, absolutely. So the meditation that I like the most for this kind of thing I like the most for this kind of thing I like the most for this kind of thing is meditations around something called is meditations around something called is meditations around something called shunya. Shunya means void. So if you shunya. Shunya means void. So if you shunya. Shunya means void. So if you really look at like all of the really look at like all of the really look at like all of the attributes of you, right? So I'm a man, attributes of you, right? So I'm a man, attributes of you, right? So I'm a man, I'm a husband, I'm a son, whatever, I'm a husband, I'm a son, whatever, I'm a husband, I'm a son, whatever, boyfriend, all of those things are like boyfriend, all of those things are like boyfriend, all of those things are like qualities. Even a loser is like the qualities. Even a loser is like the qualities. Even a loser is like the presence of something, right? I'm a presence of something, right? I'm a presence of something, right? I'm a loser. I'm pathetic. That is the loser. I'm pathetic. That is the loser. I'm pathetic. That is the existence of a negative thing. a existence of a negative thing. a existence of a negative thing. a negative veilance thing. So if you negative veilance thing. So if you negative veilance thing. So if you really look at what you are, imagine really look at what you are, imagine really look at what you are, imagine Andrew for a moment, this is going to be Andrew for a moment, this is going to be Andrew for a moment, this is going to be hard, but imagine that you only existed hard, but imagine that you only existed hard, but imagine that you only existed for 10 seconds. for 10 seconds. for 10 seconds. What would you be like? You'd be almost What would you be like? You'd be almost What would you be like? You'd be almost nothing, right? You just get this flash nothing, right? You just get this flash nothing, right? You just get this flash of experience, but you have no narrative of experience, but you have no narrative of experience, but you have no narrative identity. You have no sense of self. All identity. You have no sense of self. All identity. You have no sense of self. All you are is just a raw receiver of an you are is just a raw receiver of an you are is just a raw receiver of an experience. experience. experience. And like I I sometimes empathize with a And like I I sometimes empathize with a And like I I sometimes empathize with a child when they're first being born, child when they're first being born, child when they're first being born, that first shock of awareness and you that first shock of awareness and you that first shock of awareness and you don't know what the hell is going on and don't know what the hell is going on and don't know what the hell is going on and you start crying, right? You have no you start crying, right? You have no you start crying, right? You have no idea who you are, what you are. You're idea who you are, what you are. You're idea who you are, what you are. You're just a chunk of receiving. So there are just a chunk of receiving. So there are just a chunk of receiving. So there are shunya practices which allow you to shunya practices which allow you to shunya practices which allow you to connect with the void within you. And connect with the void within you. And connect with the void within you. And the void within us is actually the most the void within us is actually the most the void within us is actually the most basic part of what we are. It's actually basic part of what we are. It's actually basic part of what we are. It's actually what's at the bottom. Mhm. what's at the bottom. Mhm. what's at the bottom. Mhm. >> And and so there are some ways to sort >> And and so there are some ways to sort >> And and so there are some ways to sort of understand what this is like. So if of understand what this is like. So if of understand what this is like. So if you think about, you know, watching a you think about, you know, watching a you think about, you know, watching a beautiful sunset and you cease to exist. beautiful sunset and you cease to exist. beautiful sunset and you cease to exist. You're just soaking in the sunset. You You're just soaking in the sunset. You You're just soaking in the sunset. You don't have any thoughts. You don't have don't have any thoughts. You don't have don't have any thoughts. You don't have any worries. It feels incredibly any worries. It feels incredibly any worries. It feels incredibly peaceful, right? And and you are there. peaceful, right? And and you are there. peaceful, right? And and you are there. You're not comeomaosse, You're not comeomaosse, You're not comeomaosse, but you don't have a personhood in that but you don't have a personhood in that but you don't have a personhood in that moment. Another really great example of moment. Another really great example of moment. Another really great example of this is like if you really need to pee this is like if you really need to pee this is like if you really need to pee and you're like waiting you're to use and you're like waiting you're to use and you're like waiting you're to use the bathroom and then finally you get the bathroom and then finally you get the bathroom and then finally you get your turn. The moment you start peeing, your turn. The moment you start peeing, your turn. The moment you start peeing, you cease to exist whether you've got you cease to exist whether you've got you cease to exist whether you've got mortgages or you need to get a mortgages or you need to get a mortgages or you need to get a Valentine's Day present or you have to Valentine's Day present or you have to Valentine's Day present or you have to do this you have all those thoughts you do this you have all those thoughts you do this you have all those thoughts you just you just there as a as a nothing. just you just there as a as a nothing. just you just there as a as a nothing. So these shuna practices are a little So these shuna practices are a little So these shuna practices are a little bit you have to do them with a little bit you have to do them with a little bit you have to do them with a little bit more caution. There's some like bit more caution. There's some like bit more caution. There's some like introductory practices. One example is introductory practices. One example is introductory practices. One example is if you close your eyes for a moment, if you close your eyes for a moment, if you close your eyes for a moment, this is going to sound kind of weird, this is going to sound kind of weird, this is going to sound kind of weird, but like where do you feel your body? but like where do you feel your body? but like where do you feel your body? Like so think about propriception, Like so think about propriception, Like so think about propriception, right? So like pay attention to your right? So like pay attention to your right? So like pay attention to your arms, arms, arms, >> your head, your nose. So what I want you >> your head, your nose. So what I want you >> your head, your nose. So what I want you to do is focus on the area of the solar to do is focus on the area of the solar to do is focus on the area of the solar plexus plexus plexus and look for like an absence of feeling and look for like an absence of feeling and look for like an absence of feeling there. like as you breathe in and out there. like as you breathe in and out there. like as you breathe in and out like you can feel your rib cage expands like you can feel your rib cage expands like you can feel your rib cage expands maybe you can feel your your heartbeat maybe you can feel your your heartbeat maybe you can feel your your heartbeat but if you really pay attention to just but if you really pay attention to just but if you really pay attention to just the area of solar plexus there's going the area of solar plexus there's going the area of solar plexus there's going to be a feeling of emptiness and so as to be a feeling of emptiness and so as to be a feeling of emptiness and so as you meditate upon that you meditate upon that you meditate upon that you'll get closer to shunya you'll get closer to shunya you'll get closer to shunya the other really interesting easy way to the other really interesting easy way to the other really interesting easy way to get a taste of shunya is close your eyes get a taste of shunya is close your eyes get a taste of shunya is close your eyes I want you to breathe in and then breathe out. and then breathe out. And then when you're ready, breathe in And then when you're ready, breathe in And then when you're ready, breathe in again. again. again. And when you're ready, breathe out. Just And when you're ready, breathe out. Just And when you're ready, breathe out. Just just breathe nice and slow. And now what just breathe nice and slow. And now what just breathe nice and slow. And now what I want you to do is pay attention I want you to do is pay attention I want you to do is pay attention to to to the time between breaths. the time between breaths. the time between breaths. Between your breaths, you will have Between your breaths, you will have Between your breaths, you will have stillness. Not during the breathing. During the Not during the breathing. During the breathing you exist, breathing you exist, breathing you exist, inhalation, exhalation, but in between inhalation, exhalation, but in between inhalation, exhalation, but in between exhalation and inhalation, there's a exhalation and inhalation, there's a exhalation and inhalation, there's a very beautiful stillness. very beautiful stillness. very beautiful stillness. For people who are having trouble For people who are having trouble For people who are having trouble feeling that I I love this because feeling that I I love this because feeling that I I love this because there's a interesting cognitive there's a interesting cognitive there's a interesting cognitive technique. technique. technique. Catch the moment where inhalation Catch the moment where inhalation Catch the moment where inhalation becomes exhalation becomes exhalation becomes exhalation >> in your normal breathing, not absence of >> in your normal breathing, not absence of >> in your normal breathing, not absence of breathing because you're normally breathing because you're normally breathing because you're normally breathing in and out, in and out, in and breathing in and out, in and out, in and breathing in and out, in and out, in and out. Catch the moment where one becomes out. Catch the moment where one becomes out. Catch the moment where one becomes the other. That'll help you find shunya. the other. That'll help you find shunya. the other. That'll help you find shunya. >> Then shunya is defined as the void. >> Then shunya is defined as the void. >> Then shunya is defined as the void. >> Void. It's also zero emptiness. >> Void. It's also zero emptiness. >> Void. It's also zero emptiness. >> Yeah. There's no thought of roles or >> Yeah. There's no thought of roles or >> Yeah. There's no thought of roles or anything else when that anything else when that anything else when that >> and here's the beautiful thing like once >> and here's the beautiful thing like once >> and here's the beautiful thing like once you find shunya you can go into it you find shunya you can go into it you find shunya you can go into it >> so it's like as you practice this right >> so it's like as you practice this right >> so it's like as you practice this right so I'm sure that there's some so I'm sure that there's some so I'm sure that there's some neuroplasticity going on where your neuroplasticity going on where your neuroplasticity going on where your brain is wiring and then like when bad brain is wiring and then like when bad brain is wiring and then like when bad things happen to you it's flowing things happen to you it's flowing things happen to you it's flowing happening to my body it's happening to happening to my body it's happening to happening to my body it's happening to my mind in here there's nothing so I I I my mind in here there's nothing so I I I my mind in here there's nothing so I I I tested this when my dad passed away so I tested this when my dad passed away so I tested this when my dad passed away so I remember like going to the the funeral remember like going to the the funeral remember like going to the the funeral and seeing his body. I remember touching and seeing his body. I remember touching and seeing his body. I remember touching his skin like his face and shocked at his skin like his face and shocked at his skin like his face and shocked at how cold he was. Like it was like my dad how cold he was. Like it was like my dad how cold he was. Like it was like my dad but he's like he's like ice and so I was but he's like he's like ice and so I was but he's like he's like ice and so I was grieving and I was sad and I was crying grieving and I was sad and I was crying grieving and I was sad and I was crying but I was like is that thing still but I was like is that thing still but I was like is that thing still there? And I found that thing was there there? And I found that thing was there there? And I found that thing was there and I felt at peace like it is the mind and I felt at peace like it is the mind and I felt at peace like it is the mind that is sad but I'm not sad. that is sad but I'm not sad. that is sad but I'm not sad. You know, the body is grieving, but I'm You know, the body is grieving, but I'm You know, the body is grieving, but I'm not grieving. That's really what I am. not grieving. That's really what I am. not grieving. That's really what I am. It's just that's just emotion. It's not It's just that's just emotion. It's not It's just that's just emotion. It's not really me. When we become identified really me. When we become identified really me. When we become identified with our emotion, right? When when we with our emotion, right? When when we with our emotion, right? When when we were were going through a breakup and were were going through a breakup and were were going through a breakup and we're like, "Oh my god, I become we're like, "Oh my god, I become we're like, "Oh my god, I become sadness. I become sadness incarnate." sadness. I become sadness incarnate." sadness. I become sadness incarnate." But then when you step away from But then when you step away from But then when you step away from sadness, when you are watching sadness sadness, when you are watching sadness sadness, when you are watching sadness from the outside, it can actually be from the outside, it can actually be from the outside, it can actually be wonderful. And that's why we like sad wonderful. And that's why we like sad wonderful. And that's why we like sad movies. We feel sad, but we feel great. movies. We feel sad, but we feel great. movies. We feel sad, but we feel great. The difference is are you the sadness or The difference is are you the sadness or The difference is are you the sadness or are you watching the sadness and what is are you watching the sadness and what is are you watching the sadness and what is doing the watching because the sadness doing the watching because the sadness doing the watching because the sadness is in the mind there's something outside is in the mind there's something outside is in the mind there's something outside of the mind observing it of the mind observing it of the mind observing it that shunya will help you find that that shunya will help you find that that shunya will help you find that thing and that's how you become I mean thing and that's how you become I mean thing and that's how you become I mean that's the core of resilience so when I that's the core of resilience so when I that's the core of resilience so when I work with these influencers who are work with these influencers who are work with these influencers who are being stalked being stalked being stalked and you know just no matter what they do and you know just no matter what they do and you know just no matter what they do someone is there unhappy with it, right? someone is there unhappy with it, right? someone is there unhappy with it, right? Because you're talking about the Because you're talking about the Because you're talking about the internet where they're they're literally internet where they're they're literally internet where they're they're literally people out there who are delusional, who people out there who are delusional, who people out there who are delusional, who are projecting all kinds of stuff onto are projecting all kinds of stuff onto are projecting all kinds of stuff onto you. They've never met you, Andrew, and you. They've never met you, Andrew, and you. They've never met you, Andrew, and then they say that you're the incarnate then they say that you're the incarnate then they say that you're the incarnate of evil. And like, h how are they making of evil. And like, h how are they making of evil. And like, h how are they making that? Like they're living in a in a that? Like they're living in a in a that? Like they're living in a in a corner of the internet. And so in order corner of the internet. And so in order corner of the internet. And so in order to withstand that, in order to withstand to withstand that, in order to withstand to withstand that, in order to withstand the judgment, in order to withstand the the judgment, in order to withstand the the judgment, in order to withstand the poison darts, right? The interesting poison darts, right? The interesting poison darts, right? The interesting thing if you want to be impervious to thing if you want to be impervious to thing if you want to be impervious to the poison dart is you are inside. the poison dart is you are inside. the poison dart is you are inside. The poison dart hits your ego. It hits The poison dart hits your ego. It hits The poison dart hits your ego. It hits your body and the poison flows through your body and the poison flows through your body and the poison flows through you and it hurts. But you are actually you and it hurts. But you are actually you and it hurts. But you are actually even beyond that. even beyond that. even beyond that. >> He seems to come up almost every >> He seems to come up almost every >> He seems to come up almost every episode. But my good friend Rick Rubin, episode. But my good friend Rick Rubin, episode. But my good friend Rick Rubin, who you would absolutely enjoy spending who you would absolutely enjoy spending who you would absolutely enjoy spending time with and he with you, I I'm certain time with and he with you, I I'm certain time with and he with you, I I'm certain of that just talking with you today and of that just talking with you today and of that just talking with you today and knowing him very well, um has talked a knowing him very well, um has talked a knowing him very well, um has talked a lot and written a lot about how this um lot and written a lot about how this um lot and written a lot about how this um getting beyond or outside or separate getting beyond or outside or separate getting beyond or outside or separate from the ego is is the essence of of from the ego is is the essence of of from the ego is is the essence of of really the work he does with creative really the work he does with creative really the work he does with creative artists. It's really getting them artists. It's really getting them artists. It's really getting them outside of the perceptions of others. outside of the perceptions of others. outside of the perceptions of others. It's what one of the reasons why um when It's what one of the reasons why um when It's what one of the reasons why um when he's worked with artists when they're he's worked with artists when they're he's worked with artists when they're not yet famous, they're in their they not yet famous, they're in their they not yet famous, they're in their they might be ambitious, they might want some might be ambitious, they might want some might be ambitious, they might want some of that, but they're they're just doing of that, but they're they're just doing of that, but they're they're just doing their art. They're not filtering it their art. They're not filtering it their art. They're not filtering it through feedback. And there's something through feedback. And there's something through feedback. And there's something so beautiful about that. Then it gets so beautiful about that. Then it gets so beautiful about that. Then it gets contaminated contaminated contaminated >> and then the work over time is to ask >> and then the work over time is to ask >> and then the work over time is to ask whether or not people can get beyond whether or not people can get beyond whether or not people can get beyond that. But you're talking about shunya, that. But you're talking about shunya, that. But you're talking about shunya, is that how you pronounce it? accessing is that how you pronounce it? accessing is that how you pronounce it? accessing this void uh getting away from the ego this void uh getting away from the ego this void uh getting away from the ego as a practice for everyone everyday life as a practice for everyone everyday life as a practice for everyone everyday life not just people not just influencers and not just people not just influencers and not just people not just influencers and on the internet you're talking about the on the internet you're talking about the on the internet you're talking about the kid on the on the playground the the kid on the on the playground the the kid on the on the playground the the person on social media going with person on social media going with person on social media going with comparison or at the game looking at comparison or at the game looking at comparison or at the game looking at what the the other kids moms or dads what the the other kids moms or dads what the the other kids moms or dads have or are doing wearing etc. Yeah. I'm have or are doing wearing etc. Yeah. I'm have or are doing wearing etc. Yeah. I'm talking about the older sister whose talking about the older sister whose talking about the older sister whose younger sister is getting married first. younger sister is getting married first. younger sister is getting married first. I'm talking about the sibling whose I'm talking about the sibling whose I'm talking about the sibling whose older sibling got admitted to an Ivy older sibling got admitted to an Ivy older sibling got admitted to an Ivy League university and they didn't. League university and they didn't. League university and they didn't. I'm talking about the two of y'all that I'm talking about the two of y'all that I'm talking about the two of y'all that started the job at the same time and started the job at the same time and started the job at the same time and your friend gets promoted and you don't. your friend gets promoted and you don't. your friend gets promoted and you don't. And all that stuff hurts, And all that stuff hurts, And all that stuff hurts, right? And the the real tragedy here, right? And the the real tragedy here, right? And the the real tragedy here, I've worked with so many people who are I've worked with so many people who are I've worked with so many people who are incredibly successful, is sometimes when incredibly successful, is sometimes when incredibly successful, is sometimes when we get that hurt, we adapt. We become we get that hurt, we adapt. We become we get that hurt, we adapt. We become ambitious. We say, "I'm going to be that ambitious. We say, "I'm going to be that ambitious. We say, "I'm going to be that thing." And it leads us to success, but thing." And it leads us to success, but thing." And it leads us to success, but we pay the price of happiness. And the we pay the price of happiness. And the we pay the price of happiness. And the real tragedy is that some people believe real tragedy is that some people believe real tragedy is that some people believe that you get one or the other. You can that you get one or the other. You can that you get one or the other. You can be ambitious or you can be happy. But I be ambitious or you can be happy. But I be ambitious or you can be happy. But I I think you are a great living, I think you are a great living, I think you are a great living, breathing, walking example of when you breathing, walking example of when you breathing, walking example of when you tap into what really drives you, tap into what really drives you, tap into what really drives you, then you can be successful. I don't know then you can be successful. I don't know then you can be successful. I don't know if you're happy. if you're happy. if you're happy. >> I I actually am very happy and very >> I I actually am very happy and very >> I I actually am very happy and very peaceful at this stage in my life. I am peaceful at this stage in my life. I am peaceful at this stage in my life. I am I mean I struggle like everyone else I mean I struggle like everyone else I mean I struggle like everyone else with with with >> having to do work to clear this the >> having to do work to clear this the >> having to do work to clear this the contaminants and my own and you know contaminants and my own and you know contaminants and my own and you know working on myself. Certainly. One thing working on myself. Certainly. One thing working on myself. Certainly. One thing that I've done that I wonder I'd love that I've done that I wonder I'd love that I've done that I wonder I'd love your thoughts on if because perhaps it your thoughts on if because perhaps it your thoughts on if because perhaps it offers a a useful tool for people is offers a a useful tool for people is offers a a useful tool for people is whenever I feel I'm not as in touch with whenever I feel I'm not as in touch with whenever I feel I'm not as in touch with that part of myself as I would like. I that part of myself as I would like. I that part of myself as I would like. I feel like I've drifted from it or I'm feel like I've drifted from it or I'm feel like I've drifted from it or I'm just kind of caught in the current of just kind of caught in the current of just kind of caught in the current of whatever it is I've signed up for in whatever it is I've signed up for in whatever it is I've signed up for in life which I enjoy but now it's life which I enjoy but now it's life which I enjoy but now it's contaminated and there's sewage floating contaminated and there's sewage floating contaminated and there's sewage floating next to me so to speak. I find some way next to me so to speak. I find some way next to me so to speak. I find some way to bring things into my home environment to bring things into my home environment to bring things into my home environment that remind me of that feeling when I that remind me of that feeling when I that remind me of that feeling when I was a kid. So recently, for instance, I was a kid. So recently, for instance, I was a kid. So recently, for instance, I converted a art gallery into a living converted a art gallery into a living converted a art gallery into a living space. This is something I can now do in space. This is something I can now do in space. This is something I can now do in my life that I certainly couldn't do my life that I certainly couldn't do my life that I certainly couldn't do some years ago. And I love fish tanks. some years ago. And I love fish tanks. some years ago. And I love fish tanks. So I brought in aquaria and I've got my So I brought in aquaria and I've got my So I brought in aquaria and I've got my fish tanks and I've got a pet octopus. fish tanks and I've got a pet octopus. fish tanks and I've got a pet octopus. And my girlfriend brought for And my girlfriend brought for And my girlfriend brought for Valentine's Day, I got her flowers. I Valentine's Day, I got her flowers. I Valentine's Day, I got her flowers. I said, "Oh, there are the flowers." We said, "Oh, there are the flowers." We said, "Oh, there are the flowers." We got back from dinner. They were there got back from dinner. They were there got back from dinner. They were there and she goes, "I got you some plants." and she goes, "I got you some plants." and she goes, "I got you some plants." And I turned around and the place was And I turned around and the place was And I turned around and the place was like filled with plants and I I love like filled with plants and I I love like filled with plants and I I love animals and plants. I was like, "Oh my animals and plants. I was like, "Oh my animals and plants. I was like, "Oh my god." So she clearly gets me and I was god." So she clearly gets me and I was god." So she clearly gets me and I was like, "Oh my goodness." And now when I like, "Oh my goodness." And now when I like, "Oh my goodness." And now when I wake up in the morning, like I love wake up in the morning, like I love wake up in the morning, like I love those plants. I need her to take care of those plants. I need her to take care of those plants. I need her to take care of them because I walk near a plant and it them because I walk near a plant and it them because I walk near a plant and it dies. Fish and animals, I'm good. Um uh dies. Fish and animals, I'm good. Um uh dies. Fish and animals, I'm good. Um uh but but but when I'm surrounded by things that just when I'm surrounded by things that just when I'm surrounded by things that just feel really good and wholesome and just feel really good and wholesome and just feel really good and wholesome and just kind of basic to who I know myself to be kind of basic to who I know myself to be kind of basic to who I know myself to be at a certain level, then I feel like I at a certain level, then I feel like I at a certain level, then I feel like I can take that energy into everything I can take that energy into everything I can take that energy into everything I do and it it serves as a filter. Like do and it it serves as a filter. Like do and it it serves as a filter. Like shows up as at that shows up as at that shows up as at that point. People's issues show up as their point. People's issues show up as their point. People's issues show up as their issues. real criticism that I need to issues. real criticism that I need to issues. real criticism that I need to internalize. I like to think still gets internalize. I like to think still gets internalize. I like to think still gets signal above the noise. So I tend to put signal above the noise. So I tend to put signal above the noise. So I tend to put things outside me to reawaken that. But things outside me to reawaken that. But things outside me to reawaken that. But I love love love that you're offering I love love love that you're offering I love love love that you're offering tools that have nothing to do with tools that have nothing to do with tools that have nothing to do with building something, buying something building something, buying something building something, buying something because those things are still external because those things are still external because those things are still external to me. This meditation is really about to me. This meditation is really about to me. This meditation is really about accessing it from within first. And um accessing it from within first. And um accessing it from within first. And um so anyway, that's just a reflection. so anyway, that's just a reflection. so anyway, that's just a reflection. >> Yeah. So so I want to point out I think >> Yeah. So so I want to point out I think >> Yeah. So so I want to point out I think there this is it's such a masculine there this is it's such a masculine there this is it's such a masculine thing. So so if I can So you know men thing. So so if I can So you know men thing. So so if I can So you know men are really interesting. So we're trained are really interesting. So we're trained are really interesting. So we're trained to not manage our internal environment to not manage our internal environment to not manage our internal environment internally. internally. internally. So I I had a patient who was um I I saw So I I had a patient who was um I I saw So I I had a patient who was um I I saw in a jail. He was 19 and he had been in in a jail. He was 19 and he had been in in a jail. He was 19 and he had been in he'd been in jail like three or four he'd been in jail like three or four he'd been in jail like three or four times. And so I was talking to him times. And so I was talking to him times. And so I was talking to him about, you know, how he like wound up about, you know, how he like wound up about, you know, how he like wound up here because he's like 19. And so he here because he's like 19. And so he here because he's like 19. And so he was, you know, telling me that when he was, you know, telling me that when he was, you know, telling me that when he was 12, um, his dad passed away. He's was 12, um, his dad passed away. He's was 12, um, his dad passed away. He's got three sisters, all older and a mom. got three sisters, all older and a mom. got three sisters, all older and a mom. And, um, what they told him is like, And, um, what they told him is like, And, um, what they told him is like, "You're the man of the house, and you "You're the man of the house, and you "You're the man of the house, and you have to provide have to provide have to provide >> heavy." >> heavy." >> heavy." >> And and so he was like, "Okay, this is >> And and so he was like, "Okay, this is >> And and so he was like, "Okay, this is what I have to do." Like, so men do this what I have to do." Like, so men do this what I have to do." Like, so men do this thing. It's really interesting. We do thing. It's really interesting. We do thing. It's really interesting. We do emotional regulation through our emotional regulation through our emotional regulation through our environment. So if my environment makes environment. So if my environment makes environment. So if my environment makes me feel a certain way, if my mom, dad, me feel a certain way, if my mom, dad, me feel a certain way, if my mom, dad, brother, sister, boss make is upset with brother, sister, boss make is upset with brother, sister, boss make is upset with me and makes me feel bad, if I make them me and makes me feel bad, if I make them me and makes me feel bad, if I make them happy, they will no longer be upset with happy, they will no longer be upset with happy, they will no longer be upset with me. And if they're no longer upset with me. And if they're no longer upset with me. And if they're no longer upset with me, I will be content. We shape our me, I will be content. We shape our me, I will be content. We shape our internal emotional environment through internal emotional environment through internal emotional environment through our external environment. And the our external environment. And the our external environment. And the scariest place I see this is when when scariest place I see this is when when scariest place I see this is when when men I work with and it's not that women men I work with and it's not that women men I work with and it's not that women this doesn't happen to women as well. this doesn't happen to women as well. this doesn't happen to women as well. This is more the way we're socialized This is more the way we're socialized This is more the way we're socialized and there's an effect of testosterone and there's an effect of testosterone and there's an effect of testosterone and estrogen here as well. Um there's a and estrogen here as well. Um there's a and estrogen here as well. Um there's a biological element to this. But then biological element to this. But then biological element to this. But then they they fall into this trap of like they they fall into this trap of like they they fall into this trap of like their emotions are their emotions are their emotions are determined by the environment. determined by the environment. determined by the environment. >> So men are just just the way that they >> So men are just just the way that they >> So men are just just the way that they solve their internal emotional problems solve their internal emotional problems solve their internal emotional problems is by interacting with their is by interacting with their is by interacting with their environment. That's just very common. So environment. That's just very common. So environment. That's just very common. So it doesn't mean that we shouldn't it doesn't mean that we shouldn't it doesn't mean that we shouldn't utilize the outside space, utilize the outside space, utilize the outside space, >> right? So I'm not suggesting I mean if >> right? So I'm not suggesting I mean if >> right? So I'm not suggesting I mean if you really want to be if you're pursuing you really want to be if you're pursuing you really want to be if you're pursuing enlightenment then don't get Aquaria but enlightenment then don't get Aquaria but enlightenment then don't get Aquaria but like most of us aren't doing that. So I like most of us aren't doing that. So I like most of us aren't doing that. So I think we should utilize shape our think we should utilize shape our think we should utilize shape our external environment there's tons of external environment there's tons of external environment there's tons of evidence that changing your environment evidence that changing your environment evidence that changing your environment is critical from recovering from is critical from recovering from is critical from recovering from addiction. Right? If you if you're still addiction. Right? If you if you're still addiction. Right? If you if you're still hanging out at a bar it's going to be hanging out at a bar it's going to be hanging out at a bar it's going to be really hard to be sober. So, we want to really hard to be sober. So, we want to really hard to be sober. So, we want to utilize those things, but we don't want utilize those things, but we don't want utilize those things, but we don't want to become dependent on them. to become dependent on them. to become dependent on them. So, shape your environment for your So, shape your environment for your So, shape your environment for your benefit, but also be stable enough benefit, but also be stable enough benefit, but also be stable enough internally to where you don't need your internally to where you don't need your internally to where you don't need your Aquaria to feel stable, which I'm I'm I Aquaria to feel stable, which I'm I'm I Aquaria to feel stable, which I'm I'm I doubt you need. doubt you need. doubt you need. >> No, no, no. I raised that example. I see >> No, no, no. I raised that example. I see >> No, no, no. I raised that example. I see exactly what you're saying. And no, I exactly what you're saying. And no, I exactly what you're saying. And no, I use that example because it's like the use that example because it's like the use that example because it's like the ability to get in touch with a a piece ability to get in touch with a a piece ability to get in touch with a a piece of oneself that feels very true, very um of oneself that feels very true, very um of oneself that feels very true, very um wholesome and um and not, wholesome and um and not, wholesome and um and not, for lack of a better word, contaminated for lack of a better word, contaminated for lack of a better word, contaminated by anything external. by anything external. by anything external. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Feels good. And I think it's the energy >> Feels good. And I think it's the energy >> Feels good. And I think it's the energy that one takes away from that that that that one takes away from that that that that one takes away from that that that I take away from that that excites me. I take away from that that excites me. I take away from that that excites me. >> Yeah. So, so I I I think it's a great >> Yeah. So, so I I I think it's a great >> Yeah. So, so I I I think it's a great point, right? So I think we sometimes point, right? So I think we sometimes point, right? So I think we sometimes forget. So I I was giving a talk for forget. So I I was giving a talk for forget. So I I was giving a talk for executives about work life balance and I executives about work life balance and I executives about work life balance and I was like there's no such thing. So I I was like there's no such thing. So I I was like there's no such thing. So I I think we we try to b work is over here think we we try to b work is over here think we we try to b work is over here and balance like you know home is over and balance like you know home is over and balance like you know home is over sorry yeah life is over here. That's not sorry yeah life is over here. That's not sorry yeah life is over here. That's not how it works. You as a human being carry how it works. You as a human being carry how it works. You as a human being carry yourself between both situations. yourself between both situations. yourself between both situations. When things are bad at work is when When things are bad at work is when When things are bad at work is when people have affairs. If things are bad people have affairs. If things are bad people have affairs. If things are bad at home you're not going to be at your at home you're not going to be at your at home you're not going to be at your your best at work. So I I I think you're your best at work. So I I I think you're your best at work. So I I I think you're you're you're really tunneling down into you're you're really tunneling down into you're you're really tunneling down into I think the most important part of it I think the most important part of it I think the most important part of it which is that look at how you get shaped which is that look at how you get shaped which is that look at how you get shaped and look at the person that you carry and look at the person that you carry and look at the person that you carry into your next thing. There's a whole into your next thing. There's a whole into your next thing. There's a whole science behind that uh which I think we science behind that uh which I think we science behind that uh which I think we probably don't have time for but like probably don't have time for but like probably don't have time for but like this idea of some scars which is like this idea of some scars which is like this idea of some scars which is like almost like learning. almost like learning. almost like learning. >> So if you sort of look at every >> So if you sort of look at every >> So if you sort of look at every experience that you have you learn experience that you have you learn experience that you have you learn something and you carry yourself forward something and you carry yourself forward something and you carry yourself forward right into the next experience into the right into the next experience into the right into the next experience into the next experience that's what we call next experience that's what we call next experience that's what we call learning. Well, let's talk about learning. Well, let's talk about learning. Well, let's talk about samscars because um years ago 2017, I samscars because um years ago 2017, I samscars because um years ago 2017, I was exposed to yoga nidra. was exposed to yoga nidra. was exposed to yoga nidra. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> The guy that taught me nidra said the >> The guy that taught me nidra said the >> The guy that taught me nidra said the whole purpose of nidra is yes to learn whole purpose of nidra is yes to learn whole purpose of nidra is yes to learn how to relax the body with an active how to relax the body with an active how to relax the body with an active mind etc. to make up sleep that perhaps mind etc. to make up sleep that perhaps mind etc. to make up sleep that perhaps you didn't get the night before, become you didn't get the night before, become you didn't get the night before, become a better sleeper, all that stuff. But he a better sleeper, all that stuff. But he a better sleeper, all that stuff. But he said the purpose is to burn the samscars said the purpose is to burn the samscars said the purpose is to burn the samscars down to the roots. You're supposed to um down to the roots. You're supposed to um down to the roots. You're supposed to um these are like weeds that come up in these are like weeds that come up in these are like weeds that come up in your life and you're supposed to burn your life and you're supposed to burn your life and you're supposed to burn them down. And a nidra is one way that them down. And a nidra is one way that them down. And a nidra is one way that you you you rid yourself of of these you you you rid yourself of of these you you you rid yourself of of these things. Is he totally off base? things. Is he totally off base? things. Is he totally off base? >> No. So we we have to be careful because >> No. So we we have to be careful because >> No. So we we have to be careful because you love Aquaria and you love frogs. Now you love Aquaria and you love frogs. Now you love Aquaria and you love frogs. Now we're getting to what I love. we're getting to what I love. we're getting to what I love. >> Great. >> Great. >> Great. >> Okay. So I prefer that. >> Okay. So I prefer that. >> Okay. So I prefer that. >> Let's understand what yoga nidra is and >> Let's understand what yoga nidra is and >> Let's understand what yoga nidra is and what a sumot is. So one of the biggest what a sumot is. So one of the biggest what a sumot is. So one of the biggest challenges that I have as a challenges that I have as a challenges that I have as a psychiatrist, my job is not in teaching psychiatrist, my job is not in teaching psychiatrist, my job is not in teaching people things. It is in helping them people things. It is in helping them people things. It is in helping them unlearn. So if you look at what trauma unlearn. So if you look at what trauma unlearn. So if you look at what trauma is, if you look at ambition, if you look is, if you look at ambition, if you look is, if you look at ambition, if you look at ego, you know, you you kind of said at ego, you know, you you kind of said at ego, you know, you you kind of said you try to connect to this childlike you try to connect to this childlike you try to connect to this childlike energy. I forget if it was like Leonardo energy. I forget if it was like Leonardo energy. I forget if it was like Leonardo or Michelangelo or or someone who's or Michelangelo or or someone who's or Michelangelo or or someone who's like, you know, it took me my whole life like, you know, it took me my whole life like, you know, it took me my whole life to learn how to paint like a child. So to learn how to paint like a child. So to learn how to paint like a child. So if you look at literally what happens if you look at literally what happens if you look at literally what happens with the human psychology is we acrue with the human psychology is we acrue with the human psychology is we acrue these micro traumas as we go through these micro traumas as we go through these micro traumas as we go through life. We acrew associations. life. We acrew associations. life. We acrew associations. I had a patient who was absolutely I had a patient who was absolutely I had a patient who was absolutely traumatized. traumatized. traumatized. was dating someone engaged to a dude. was dating someone engaged to a dude. was dating someone engaged to a dude. Okay. Discovered that her fianceé had Okay. Discovered that her fianceé had Okay. Discovered that her fianceé had been lying. So, he was in med school, been lying. So, he was in med school, been lying. So, he was in med school, failed out. Uh for 2 years, he pretended failed out. Uh for 2 years, he pretended failed out. Uh for 2 years, he pretended to go to class every day. to go to class every day. to go to class every day. And then then when he graduated, he got And then then when he graduated, he got And then then when he graduated, he got a job, a job, a job, >> but he didn't really graduate. >> but he didn't really graduate. >> but he didn't really graduate. >> He didn't really graduate. Here's the >> He didn't really graduate. Here's the >> He didn't really graduate. Here's the scary thing. So he would leave in the scary thing. So he would leave in the scary thing. So he would leave in the morning, drive to his parents' house, morning, drive to his parents' house, morning, drive to his parents' house, spend the day there. Parents would spend the day there. Parents would spend the day there. Parents would deposit money in their account. And so deposit money in their account. And so deposit money in their account. And so for years, like and so one day I think I for years, like and so one day I think I for years, like and so one day I think I think what happened is she went to his think what happened is she went to his think what happened is she went to his parents house and she saw him there cuz parents house and she saw him there cuz parents house and she saw him there cuz she like, you know, in on the she like, you know, in on the she like, you know, in on the >> Yeah, they were in the lie. They were in >> Yeah, they were in the lie. They were in >> Yeah, they were in the lie. They were in on the lie, right? So they were in on on the lie, right? So they were in on on the lie, right? So they were in on the lie. the lie. the lie. >> And so she is just like like what are >> And so she is just like like what are >> And so she is just like like what are you doing here? And then then she you doing here? And then then she you doing here? And then then she discovers not only him, but her parents discovers not only him, but her parents discovers not only him, but her parents have been depositing money into their have been depositing money into their have been depositing money into their account every month. And so she account every month. And so she account every month. And so she discovers this betrayal. And so I'm discovers this betrayal. And so I'm discovers this betrayal. And so I'm shocked. shocked. shocked. >> Yeah. It's insane. It's absolutely >> Yeah. It's insane. It's absolutely >> Yeah. It's insane. It's absolutely insane. The the the lengths that people insane. The the the lengths that people insane. The the the lengths that people will go to to to deceive you. will go to to to deceive you. will go to to to deceive you. >> Oh, believe me, I've experienced >> Oh, believe me, I've experienced >> Oh, believe me, I've experienced somebody creating a world that was a somebody creating a world that was a somebody creating a world that was a complete fabrication and eventually all complete fabrication and eventually all complete fabrication and eventually all came tumbling down for them. But I came tumbling down for them. But I came tumbling down for them. But I remember being like, "Oh my god." remember being like, "Oh my god." remember being like, "Oh my god." >> Yeah. Right. So when you're about to >> Yeah. Right. So when you're about to >> Yeah. Right. So when you're about to marry this person, it leaves scars. So marry this person, it leaves scars. So marry this person, it leaves scars. So then what happens is she goes into her then what happens is she goes into her then what happens is she goes into her next relationship and she has an immense next relationship and she has an immense next relationship and she has an immense amount of distrust is paranoid about her amount of distrust is paranoid about her amount of distrust is paranoid about her next partner. Next partner didn't do next partner. Next partner didn't do next partner. Next partner didn't do and this guy is getting like like and this guy is getting like like and this guy is getting like like there's so much paranoia, right? So if there's so much paranoia, right? So if there's so much paranoia, right? So if you look at life, life is a series of you look at life, life is a series of you look at life, life is a series of like bad stuff that happens to us and like bad stuff that happens to us and like bad stuff that happens to us and then we adapt. then we adapt. then we adapt. But the way that the human mind adapts But the way that the human mind adapts But the way that the human mind adapts is the same way that the human body is the same way that the human body is the same way that the human body adapts. Because if something is in if we adapts. Because if something is in if we adapts. Because if something is in if we get really damaged, we get a callous. We get really damaged, we get a callous. We get really damaged, we get a callous. We get scar tissue. Scar tissue is not get scar tissue. Scar tissue is not get scar tissue. Scar tissue is not functional. It's protective, but it's functional. It's protective, but it's functional. It's protective, but it's not functional. So most of our not functional. So most of our not functional. So most of our adaptations become maladdaptations later adaptations become maladdaptations later adaptations become maladdaptations later on. Okay. So this is what a sumscot is. on. Okay. So this is what a sumscot is. on. Okay. So this is what a sumscot is. So it's like this emotional energy that So it's like this emotional energy that So it's like this emotional energy that lingers with you and shapes the way that lingers with you and shapes the way that lingers with you and shapes the way that you see the world. So it's really you see the world. So it's really you see the world. So it's really fascinating because we have all this fascinating because we have all this fascinating because we have all this like trauma processing and the yogis like trauma processing and the yogis like trauma processing and the yogis were talking about it for thousands of were talking about it for thousands of were talking about it for thousands of years as some scars and now you were years as some scars and now you were years as some scars and now you were talking about you know this thing down talking about you know this thing down talking about you know this thing down there that needs to be burned. So let's there that needs to be burned. So let's there that needs to be burned. So let's understand that for a second if you look understand that for a second if you look understand that for a second if you look at your mind stuff pops up right have at your mind stuff pops up right have at your mind stuff pops up right have you ever wondered why certain things pop you ever wondered why certain things pop you ever wondered why certain things pop up? No. Right. Have you ever thought up? No. Right. Have you ever thought up? No. Right. Have you ever thought like why aren't you interested in the like why aren't you interested in the like why aren't you interested in the scent of a rose? scent of a rose? scent of a rose? Like a certain like it's so weird like Like a certain like it's so weird like Like a certain like it's so weird like our our mind just generates thoughts and our our mind just generates thoughts and our our mind just generates thoughts and everyone is trying to learn discipline everyone is trying to learn discipline everyone is trying to learn discipline and willpower. I think it's terrible. and willpower. I think it's terrible. and willpower. I think it's terrible. Willpower is so bad because why not just Willpower is so bad because why not just Willpower is so bad because why not just shape yourself to have the right shape yourself to have the right shape yourself to have the right desires? Then you don't need willpower. desires? Then you don't need willpower. desires? Then you don't need willpower. This is what the process of yoga is This is what the process of yoga is This is what the process of yoga is really about. This is what samscar really about. This is what samscar really about. This is what samscar generation is about. Did you learn a generation is about. Did you learn a generation is about. Did you learn a salpa when you did uh yoga nidra? salpa when you did uh yoga nidra? salpa when you did uh yoga nidra? >> Well, they talk about it. I confess that >> Well, they talk about it. I confess that >> Well, they talk about it. I confess that um I've maintained a very regular yoga um I've maintained a very regular yoga um I've maintained a very regular yoga nidra practice, but I've not explored nidra practice, but I've not explored nidra practice, but I've not explored the these aspects of it. the these aspects of it. the these aspects of it. >> So, I'll explain to you the mechanism of >> So, I'll explain to you the mechanism of >> So, I'll explain to you the mechanism of a scalpa and like literally it's it's a scalpa and like literally it's it's a scalpa and like literally it's it's wild. This is reprogramming your wild. This is reprogramming your wild. This is reprogramming your subconscious mind so that the things subconscious mind so that the things subconscious mind so that the things that your subconscious mind puts into that your subconscious mind puts into that your subconscious mind puts into your conscious mind, you can control. your conscious mind, you can control. your conscious mind, you can control. Okay. So, in the case of trauma, all Okay. So, in the case of trauma, all Okay. So, in the case of trauma, all kinds of weird stuff gets put into our kinds of weird stuff gets put into our kinds of weird stuff gets put into our subconscious mind like I can't trust subconscious mind like I can't trust subconscious mind like I can't trust people. Then what happens is that floats people. Then what happens is that floats people. Then what happens is that floats to the surface. In my patient's case, to the surface. In my patient's case, to the surface. In my patient's case, every time her second fiance, every time her second fiance, every time her second fiance, she doesn't know where he is. She's she doesn't know where he is. She's she doesn't know where he is. She's like, "Maybe he's scamming me." Right? like, "Maybe he's scamming me." Right? like, "Maybe he's scamming me." Right? Like that's what she thinks. So, I don't Like that's what she thinks. So, I don't Like that's what she thinks. So, I don't know if that makes sense. That's a know if that makes sense. That's a know if that makes sense. That's a thought in her conscious thought in her conscious thought in her conscious being born out of something in her being born out of something in her being born out of something in her unconscious. We in neuroscience call unconscious. We in neuroscience call unconscious. We in neuroscience call this learning, right? So we're learning this learning, right? So we're learning this learning, right? So we're learning certain things. certain things. certain things. So in psychotherapy, we try to get rid So in psychotherapy, we try to get rid So in psychotherapy, we try to get rid of that bad stuff. But let's understand of that bad stuff. But let's understand of that bad stuff. But let's understand how stuff goes in because if we can how stuff goes in because if we can how stuff goes in because if we can understand how the mind is programmed, understand how the mind is programmed, understand how the mind is programmed, and this is it's so simple, so and this is it's so simple, so and this is it's so simple, so neuroscientific, okay? Or maybe you can neuroscientific, okay? Or maybe you can neuroscientific, okay? Or maybe you can tell me it's not neuroscientific, but tell me it's not neuroscientific, but tell me it's not neuroscientific, but I'm pretty sure it is. Okay? The first I'm pretty sure it is. Okay? The first I'm pretty sure it is. Okay? The first thing is the onepointedness of the mind thing is the onepointedness of the mind thing is the onepointedness of the mind allows things to sink in. So, if I'm allows things to sink in. So, if I'm allows things to sink in. So, if I'm trying to study optic nerve anatomy and trying to study optic nerve anatomy and trying to study optic nerve anatomy and I'm in a burning building with people I'm in a burning building with people I'm in a burning building with people yelling at me, I can have my eyes look yelling at me, I can have my eyes look yelling at me, I can have my eyes look at the paper, but I'm not going to learn at the paper, but I'm not going to learn at the paper, but I'm not going to learn anything. This is the really crazy thing anything. This is the really crazy thing anything. This is the really crazy thing is a lot of people study repetitively, is a lot of people study repetitively, is a lot of people study repetitively, right? So, I read the paper again and right? So, I read the paper again and right? So, I read the paper again and again and again and again, but it's not again and again and again, but it's not again and again and again, but it's not like each time I read the paper I get like each time I read the paper I get like each time I read the paper I get 10% of the knowledge. If you really pay 10% of the knowledge. If you really pay 10% of the knowledge. If you really pay attention to your mind, when you are attention to your mind, when you are attention to your mind, when you are focused, when your mind is onepointed, focused, when your mind is onepointed, focused, when your mind is onepointed, you just need to read it once. What you just need to read it once. What you just need to read it once. What we're basically doing is we're rolling we're basically doing is we're rolling we're basically doing is we're rolling the dice. Am I focused this time I read the dice. Am I focused this time I read the dice. Am I focused this time I read the page? Am I focused this time I read the page? Am I focused this time I read the page? Am I focused this time I read the page? Am I focused this time I read the page? Am I focused this time I read the page? Am I focused this time I read the page? This is also why we have the page? This is also why we have the page? This is also why we have studies on things like writing. So when studies on things like writing. So when studies on things like writing. So when you write, it improves your capacity to you write, it improves your capacity to you write, it improves your capacity to focus. So that's when things enter your focus. So that's when things enter your focus. So that's when things enter your memory a little bit more. memory a little bit more. memory a little bit more. So onepointedness of the mind is what So onepointedness of the mind is what So onepointedness of the mind is what leads to things being learned. Now this leads to things being learned. Now this leads to things being learned. Now this is how trauma works. So when we when you is how trauma works. So when we when you is how trauma works. So when we when you are intensely emotional, it actually are intensely emotional, it actually are intensely emotional, it actually focuses your mind. focuses your mind. focuses your mind. >> Yeah. And as you mentioned before, I'm >> Yeah. And as you mentioned before, I'm >> Yeah. And as you mentioned before, I'm so glad you did as a visual system so glad you did as a visual system so glad you did as a visual system neuroscientist. When adrenaline levels neuroscientist. When adrenaline levels neuroscientist. When adrenaline levels are high, the visual field narrows, our are high, the visual field narrows, our are high, the visual field narrows, our depth perception change. Everything depth perception change. Everything depth perception change. Everything becomes a microscope view of the thing becomes a microscope view of the thing becomes a microscope view of the thing in front. in front. in front. >> Absolutely. Right. And and when when >> Absolutely. Right. And and when when >> Absolutely. Right. And and when when we're having an argument because you we're having an argument because you we're having an argument because you didn't get me what I asked for for didn't get me what I asked for for didn't get me what I asked for for Valentine's Day, and then I tell you, Valentine's Day, and then I tell you, Valentine's Day, and then I tell you, Andrew, you've you've never gotten me Andrew, you've you've never gotten me Andrew, you've you've never gotten me what I want for Valentine's Day. That what I want for Valentine's Day. That what I want for Valentine's Day. That laser focus, that one statement that I laser focus, that one statement that I laser focus, that one statement that I make, even though I tell told you right make, even though I tell told you right make, even though I tell told you right before that I love you and right after before that I love you and right after before that I love you and right after I'm sorry, that thing sinks in. It's I'm sorry, that thing sinks in. It's I'm sorry, that thing sinks in. It's that poison dart, right? It sinks in and that poison dart, right? It sinks in and that poison dart, right? It sinks in and that's what you remember because you are that's what you remember because you are that's what you remember because you are focused on it. So when we are emotional, focused on it. So when we are emotional, focused on it. So when we are emotional, we are focused. So the way that I want we are focused. So the way that I want we are focused. So the way that I want you to think about your mind is like a you to think about your mind is like a you to think about your mind is like a pool of water that has a lot of waves. pool of water that has a lot of waves. pool of water that has a lot of waves. >> And when the water is still, something >> And when the water is still, something >> And when the water is still, something can sink down to the the bottom. But can sink down to the the bottom. But can sink down to the the bottom. But when the water is really active, nothing when the water is really active, nothing when the water is really active, nothing sinks in. So now we get to yoga nidra. sinks in. So now we get to yoga nidra. sinks in. So now we get to yoga nidra. So in yoga nidra what we are doing is So in yoga nidra what we are doing is So in yoga nidra what we are doing is attaining a state of consciousness attaining a state of consciousness attaining a state of consciousness that is that is that is what's called in the yogic yogic what's called in the yogic yogic what's called in the yogic yogic scientific literature a hypno yogic scientific literature a hypno yogic scientific literature a hypno yogic state. So it's not hypnosis state. So it's not hypnosis state. So it's not hypnosis but it's not pure active consciousness. but it's not pure active consciousness. but it's not pure active consciousness. It is a very dormant awakeness if that It is a very dormant awakeness if that It is a very dormant awakeness if that kind of makes sense right you're in this kind of makes sense right you're in this kind of makes sense right you're in this trance and so in that trance you you're trance and so in that trance you you're trance and so in that trance you you're in the edit mode for your unconscious in the edit mode for your unconscious in the edit mode for your unconscious mind so this is where a sulpa comes in mind so this is where a sulpa comes in mind so this is where a sulpa comes in so a sulpa is a resolve that you put in so a sulpa is a resolve that you put in so a sulpa is a resolve that you put in there and then I don't know how to there and then I don't know how to there and then I don't know how to explain this except in this way so when explain this except in this way so when explain this except in this way so when I work with a patient who has anxiety I work with a patient who has anxiety I work with a patient who has anxiety and they have this subconscious and they have this subconscious and they have this subconscious programming we when we have a programming we when we have a programming we when we have a therapeutic breakthrough which there's therapeutic breakthrough which there's therapeutic breakthrough which there's tons of evidence for, right? So, even tons of evidence for, right? So, even tons of evidence for, right? So, even Freud noticed this that you have to Freud noticed this that you have to Freud noticed this that you have to activate the emotion in psychotherapy. activate the emotion in psychotherapy. activate the emotion in psychotherapy. Like my patient that I talked about a Like my patient that I talked about a Like my patient that I talked about a while ago who was like comes and he while ago who was like comes and he while ago who was like comes and he talks about how he's depressed didn't do talks about how he's depressed didn't do talks about how he's depressed didn't do for him. What we have to talk about for him. What we have to talk about for him. What we have to talk about is why he's angry, how he's been screwed is why he's angry, how he's been screwed is why he's angry, how he's been screwed in life. All the people that he's an So in life. All the people that he's an So in life. All the people that he's an So then once once that emotional energy then once once that emotional energy then once once that emotional energy activates, we become one-pointed. We activates, we become one-pointed. We activates, we become one-pointed. We activate that energy in the in the activate that energy in the in the activate that energy in the in the unconscious and then if we vent it out, unconscious and then if we vent it out, unconscious and then if we vent it out, it disappears. That's how you burn away it disappears. That's how you burn away it disappears. That's how you burn away the things by letting them out. the things by letting them out. the things by letting them out. >> And in nidra um is there an opportunity >> And in nidra um is there an opportunity >> And in nidra um is there an opportunity for emotion? Um you're very it's a for emotion? Um you're very it's a for emotion? Um you're very it's a deeply relaxed but mind active state. deeply relaxed but mind active state. deeply relaxed but mind active state. >> No. No. Yeah. So you don't want emotion >> No. No. Yeah. So you don't want emotion >> No. No. Yeah. So you don't want emotion in nidra. You are actually so emotion in nidra. You are actually so emotion in nidra. You are actually so emotion collapses a scattered mind to one point. collapses a scattered mind to one point. collapses a scattered mind to one point. But there is a state of consciousness But there is a state of consciousness But there is a state of consciousness even beyond one-pointedness that would even beyond one-pointedness that would even beyond one-pointedness that would we we use in studying where if you talk we we use in studying where if you talk we we use in studying where if you talk to people who like engage in not even to people who like engage in not even to people who like engage in not even the flow state but beyond the flow the flow state but beyond the flow the flow state but beyond the flow state. So there are people who like the state. So there are people who like the state. So there are people who like the best ter I know it's going to sound best ter I know it's going to sound best ter I know it's going to sound hokey but people who like channel hokey but people who like channel hokey but people who like channel divinity that I think divine is the best divinity that I think divine is the best divinity that I think divine is the best scientific term. So there is there are scientific term. So there is there are scientific term. So there is there are some human beings and everyone has some human beings and everyone has some human beings and everyone has experienced this where like you're not experienced this where like you're not experienced this where like you're not you you're like something else. you you're like something else. you you're like something else. >> Tell me more. I think the Greeks thought >> Tell me more. I think the Greeks thought >> Tell me more. I think the Greeks thought of genius is not a person is like of genius is not a person is like of genius is not a person is like something you channel something you channel something you channel >> something coming through somebody >> something coming through somebody >> something coming through somebody >> something you see this I think most >> something you see this I think most >> something you see this I think most readily in musicians readily in musicians readily in musicians >> musicians athletes >> musicians athletes >> musicians athletes >> right so there are sometimes like I work >> right so there are sometimes like I work >> right so there are sometimes like I work with like esports athletes and some of with like esports athletes and some of with like esports athletes and some of them know that they're going to win they them know that they're going to win they them know that they're going to win they see the game that they're going to play see the game that they're going to play see the game that they're going to play and they're they they know exactly and they're they they know exactly and they're they they know exactly what's going to happen and the crazy what's going to happen and the crazy what's going to happen and the crazy thing it's not a calculation it's an thing it's not a calculation it's an thing it's not a calculation it's an intuition I'm sure that on some level intuition I'm sure that on some level intuition I'm sure that on some level they're calcul they're calcul they're calcul So we call this stuff divine. I'm not So we call this stuff divine. I'm not So we call this stuff divine. I'm not saying it's divine. I'm not saying it saying it's divine. I'm not saying it saying it's divine. I'm not saying it comes from God. I'm saying that the comes from God. I'm saying that the comes from God. I'm saying that the subjective experience is qualitatively subjective experience is qualitatively subjective experience is qualitatively fundamentally different from like a fundamentally different from like a fundamentally different from like a regular logical experience. So this is a regular logical experience. So this is a regular logical experience. So this is a state of mind that is even beyond state of mind that is even beyond state of mind that is even beyond emotion. It's in the edit mode. And emotion. It's in the edit mode. And emotion. It's in the edit mode. And scattered mind emotion brings us down to scattered mind emotion brings us down to scattered mind emotion brings us down to some amount of focus. But then there's some amount of focus. But then there's some amount of focus. But then there's even a level of focus that's deeper. even a level of focus that's deeper. even a level of focus that's deeper. >> And that's where the rewriting comes in. >> And that's where the rewriting comes in. >> And that's where the rewriting comes in. >> That's where the rewriting comes in. >> That's where the rewriting comes in. >> That's where the rewriting comes in. that that's when that and then when you that that's when that and then when you that that's when that and then when you implant something there that's what a implant something there that's what a implant something there that's what a scalpa is. So when you do yoga nidra the scalpa is. So when you do yoga nidra the scalpa is. So when you do yoga nidra the physiologic element so this is what's physiologic element so this is what's physiologic element so this is what's like not bad but is a necessary step like not bad but is a necessary step like not bad but is a necessary step with where we are with science all the with where we are with science all the with where we are with science all the weird mystical stuff I think is real but weird mystical stuff I think is real but weird mystical stuff I think is real but we have to start with the basic science we have to start with the basic science we have to start with the basic science right so the way that science works is right so the way that science works is right so the way that science works is like we start with okay like let's look like we start with okay like let's look like we start with okay like let's look at cortisol production and then let's at cortisol production and then let's at cortisol production and then let's look at what happens next and let's look look at what happens next and let's look look at what happens next and let's look at what happens next and let's look at at what happens next and let's look at at what happens next and let's look at what happens next. So yoga nidra whether what happens next. So yoga nidra whether what happens next. So yoga nidra whether you're talking about cardiac coherence you're talking about cardiac coherence you're talking about cardiac coherence breathing. So there's the first stage of breathing. So there's the first stage of breathing. So there's the first stage of what we call nadishudi pranayam which is what we call nadishudi pranayam which is what we call nadishudi pranayam which is alternate nostril breathing but then alternate nostril breathing but then alternate nostril breathing but then there's a text called um there's a text called um there's a text called um vashishta samita which talks about a vashishta samita which talks about a vashishta samita which talks about a particular kind of cardiac coherence particular kind of cardiac coherence particular kind of cardiac coherence breathing with a a ratio of 1:4 to 8. So breathing with a a ratio of 1:4 to 8. So breathing with a a ratio of 1:4 to 8. So you breathe in for 8 seconds. Actually you breathe in for 8 seconds. Actually you breathe in for 8 seconds. Actually you breathe in for 16 seconds you hold you breathe in for 16 seconds you hold you breathe in for 16 seconds you hold for 64 seconds and then you exhale for for 64 seconds and then you exhale for for 64 seconds and then you exhale for 32 seconds. If you do the vashishta 32 seconds. If you do the vashishta 32 seconds. If you do the vashishta samita version of cardiac coherence samita version of cardiac coherence samita version of cardiac coherence breathing the subjective experience is breathing the subjective experience is breathing the subjective experience is completely different. You will feel completely different. You will feel completely different. You will feel prana. You will feel chi prana. You will feel chi prana. You will feel chi >> with that pattern of breathing. >> with that pattern of breathing. >> with that pattern of breathing. >> With that pattern of breathing you >> With that pattern of breathing you >> With that pattern of breathing you >> those are long inhales holds and >> those are long inhales holds and >> those are long inhales holds and exhales. exhales. exhales. >> Yeah. So it's it's hard to get to but >> Yeah. So it's it's hard to get to but >> Yeah. So it's it's hard to get to but like literally the subjective experience like literally the subjective experience like literally the subjective experience that you will have is like a sense of that you will have is like a sense of that you will have is like a sense of vibration vibration vibration on like at the periphery of your body. on like at the periphery of your body. on like at the periphery of your body. That's what it feels like to me. I'd That's what it feels like to me. I'd That's what it feels like to me. 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If I may just a brief editorial about If I may just a brief editorial about If I may just a brief editorial about why I also believe that science needs to why I also believe that science needs to why I also believe that science needs to go down through the physiological first. go down through the physiological first. go down through the physiological first. My lab has done some clinical studies on My lab has done some clinical studies on My lab has done some clinical studies on breath work. We called it respiration breath work. We called it respiration breath work. We called it respiration physiology for a reason. It's important physiology for a reason. It's important physiology for a reason. It's important to be able to fund studies and also to to be able to fund studies and also to to be able to fund studies and also to be able to communicate th that be able to communicate th that be able to communicate th that information to colleagues who if they information to colleagues who if they information to colleagues who if they just hear breath work or meditation or just hear breath work or meditation or just hear breath work or meditation or that that it's it's a separator, right? that that it's it's a separator, right? that that it's it's a separator, right? that the the field of science can't go that the the field of science can't go that the the field of science can't go into the mystical right away. But what's into the mystical right away. But what's into the mystical right away. But what's so interesting is nowadays there are so interesting is nowadays there are so interesting is nowadays there are discussions about uh meditation that are discussions about uh meditation that are discussions about uh meditation that are starting to get into the deeper layers, starting to get into the deeper layers, starting to get into the deeper layers, but it took 20 years or more of formal but it took 20 years or more of formal but it took 20 years or more of formal science to do. I'm I'm not arguing with science to do. I'm I'm not arguing with science to do. I'm I'm not arguing with you. I just I think some people will say you. I just I think some people will say you. I just I think some people will say why not just cut to the chase. No, no, why not just cut to the chase. No, no, why not just cut to the chase. No, no, no. You know, I completely agree with no. You know, I completely agree with no. You know, I completely agree with with everything you're saying. I think with everything you're saying. I think with everything you're saying. I think there are ways of editing the nervous there are ways of editing the nervous there are ways of editing the nervous system that are non-farmacologic that system that are non-farmacologic that system that are non-farmacologic that are behavioral. You're describing some are behavioral. You're describing some are behavioral. You're describing some of the the the more ancient ones. I do of the the the more ancient ones. I do of the the the more ancient ones. I do believe the yogis were and are believe the yogis were and are believe the yogis were and are neuroscientists. They come in through a neuroscientists. They come in through a neuroscientists. They come in through a different avenue. My recollection from different avenue. My recollection from different avenue. My recollection from nidra is that um there are some there's nidra is that um there are some there's nidra is that um there are some there's an encouragement to two things that I an encouragement to two things that I an encouragement to two things that I would love your your your comments on. would love your your your comments on. would love your your your comments on. One is there's an instruction in the One is there's an instruction in the One is there's an instruction in the nidros that I've done to move away from nidros that I've done to move away from nidros that I've done to move away from thinking and doing to being and feeling. thinking and doing to being and feeling. thinking and doing to being and feeling. You're trying to get out of the state of You're trying to get out of the state of You're trying to get out of the state of planning out of there's some shift planning out of there's some shift planning out of there's some shift that's critical. And then the other one that's critical. And then the other one that's critical. And then the other one is I am statements. There there's this is I am statements. There there's this is I am statements. There there's this instruction to give uh like talk about instruction to give uh like talk about instruction to give uh like talk about one's deepest heart's desire as if it's one's deepest heart's desire as if it's one's deepest heart's desire as if it's already happened. Is that BS or is that already happened. Is that BS or is that already happened. Is that BS or is that >> No, it's not BS. But we have to >> No, it's not BS. But we have to >> No, it's not BS. But we have to understand mechanism. So let me talk understand mechanism. So let me talk understand mechanism. So let me talk about the science bit for a bit. I have about the science bit for a bit. I have about the science bit for a bit. I have a far not simpler I'm a clinician. I a far not simpler I'm a clinician. I a far not simpler I'm a clinician. I think there's a reason we have to start think there's a reason we have to start think there's a reason we have to start with physiology because when a patient with physiology because when a patient with physiology because when a patient comes into my office if I tell them do comes into my office if I tell them do comes into my office if I tell them do yoga nidra what is the effect size of yoga nidra what is the effect size of yoga nidra what is the effect size of the intervention? We need to know that the intervention? We need to know that the intervention? We need to know that right? So here's the problem with right? So here's the problem with right? So here's the problem with studying meditation and the benefit of studying meditation and the benefit of studying meditation and the benefit of studying meditation this way. studying meditation this way. studying meditation this way. >> The problem is that we're teaching >> The problem is that we're teaching >> The problem is that we're teaching people to swim for eight weeks that does people to swim for eight weeks that does people to swim for eight weeks that does not show us what an Olympic athlete is. not show us what an Olympic athlete is. not show us what an Olympic athlete is. So our science of meditation is in its So our science of meditation is in its So our science of meditation is in its infancy. The reason why this is really infancy. The reason why this is really infancy. The reason why this is really important is because not everybody is a important is because not everybody is a important is because not everybody is a Buddha. So the reason we have to start Buddha. So the reason we have to start Buddha. So the reason we have to start with physiology is because we need we're with physiology is because we need we're with physiology is because we need we're we're doing scientific studies to make we're doing scientific studies to make we're doing scientific studies to make predictions. Why are we making predictions. Why are we making predictions. Why are we making predictions? At least for me it's to predictions? At least for me it's to predictions? At least for me it's to help a human being. So I don't care that help a human being. So I don't care that help a human being. So I don't care that you know there's some yogi who's been in you know there's some yogi who's been in you know there's some yogi who's been in the cave in the Himalayas for 60 years the cave in the Himalayas for 60 years the cave in the Himalayas for 60 years and attain some weird channeling of and attain some weird channeling of and attain some weird channeling of divinity. What I want to know is like divinity. What I want to know is like divinity. What I want to know is like when a human being comes into my office when a human being comes into my office when a human being comes into my office and I tell them to meditate how much can and I tell them to meditate how much can and I tell them to meditate how much can I pull back on their SSRI if they've I pull back on their SSRI if they've I pull back on their SSRI if they've been sticking with the practice right so been sticking with the practice right so been sticking with the practice right so you have to start science is about you have to start science is about you have to start science is about reliability not about possib that sounds reliability not about possib that sounds reliability not about possib that sounds so new age but it's it's about what we so new age but it's it's about what we so new age but it's it's about what we can reliably predict and that's a really can reliably predict and that's a really can reliably predict and that's a really important place to start important place to start important place to start going back to the nidra thing this is going back to the nidra thing this is going back to the nidra thing this is the thing to understand so if you think the thing to understand so if you think the thing to understand so if you think about planning planning is a higher about planning planning is a higher about planning planning is a higher order cognitive function that depends order cognitive function that depends order cognitive function that depends upon on other baser cognitive functions. upon on other baser cognitive functions. upon on other baser cognitive functions. And I'll just give you a simple example. And I'll just give you a simple example. And I'll just give you a simple example. If I care about parties, my mind will If I care about parties, my mind will If I care about parties, my mind will automatically plan parties. If I care automatically plan parties. If I care automatically plan parties. If I care about avoiding other people, I will about avoiding other people, I will about avoiding other people, I will automatically plan how to avoid other automatically plan how to avoid other automatically plan how to avoid other people. So the planning that you do is people. So the planning that you do is people. So the planning that you do is whatever. But which things are you whatever. But which things are you whatever. But which things are you planning? That comes from the deeper planning? That comes from the deeper planning? That comes from the deeper stuff for lack of a better term. That's stuff for lack of a better term. That's stuff for lack of a better term. That's why so these people they're not doing why so these people they're not doing why so these people they're not doing the the sulpa in the most classic form the the sulpa in the most classic form the the sulpa in the most classic form but they're getting there because a but they're getting there because a but they're getting there because a being statement is the pluropotent stem being statement is the pluropotent stem being statement is the pluropotent stem cell of where you want to go. Okay. So cell of where you want to go. Okay. So cell of where you want to go. Okay. So what what do I mean by that? It's like what what do I mean by that? It's like what what do I mean by that? It's like so like like let's be precise and I know so like like let's be precise and I know so like like let's be precise and I know it sounds newagy but there's like it sounds newagy but there's like it sounds newagy but there's like science here. Okay. So let's look about science here. Okay. So let's look about science here. Okay. So let's look about some look at something like self-esteem. some look at something like self-esteem. some look at something like self-esteem. So self-esteem is an assessment of So self-esteem is an assessment of So self-esteem is an assessment of yourself and think about all of the ways yourself and think about all of the ways yourself and think about all of the ways if I have high self-esteem or low if I have high self-esteem or low if I have high self-esteem or low self-esteem that will result in so many self-esteem that will result in so many self-esteem that will result in so many different like manifestation not different like manifestation not different like manifestation not it's the word right that will manifest it's the word right that will manifest it's the word right that will manifest in your life in so many ways how do you in your life in so many ways how do you in your life in so many ways how do you respond to feedback if someone asks too respond to feedback if someone asks too respond to feedback if someone asks too much of you can you set a boundary and much of you can you set a boundary and much of you can you set a boundary and this is the problem the the core of the this is the problem the the core of the this is the problem the the core of the work that I try to do is I try to help work that I try to do is I try to help work that I try to do is I try to help people get to their fundamentals people get to their fundamentals people get to their fundamentals everyone's focused on changing behavior everyone's focused on changing behavior everyone's focused on changing behavior everyone's focused on increasing everyone's focused on increasing everyone's focused on increasing willpower to overcome this tendency. willpower to overcome this tendency. willpower to overcome this tendency. And it's like, why not just change the And it's like, why not just change the And it's like, why not just change the tendency? tendency? tendency? And that sounds so simple, but that's And that sounds so simple, but that's And that sounds so simple, but that's literally what we do in psychotherapy literally what we do in psychotherapy literally what we do in psychotherapy every day. When we come in and someone every day. When we come in and someone every day. When we come in and someone has a narcissistic personality disorder, has a narcissistic personality disorder, has a narcissistic personality disorder, Andrew, this is personality. This is who Andrew, this is personality. This is who Andrew, this is personality. This is who they are. And we can psychotherapize they are. And we can psychotherapize they are. And we can psychotherapize them to be someone else. for their them to be someone else. for their them to be someone else. for their natural thoughts to change, for the way natural thoughts to change, for the way natural thoughts to change, for the way that they see the world to change, for that they see the world to change, for that they see the world to change, for their behaviors to change on its own. It their behaviors to change on its own. It their behaviors to change on its own. It doesn't require willpower is necessary doesn't require willpower is necessary doesn't require willpower is necessary when you are trying to not be when you are trying to not be when you are trying to not be narcissistic. It is not necessary when narcissistic. It is not necessary when narcissistic. It is not necessary when you are no longer narcissistic. you are no longer narcissistic. you are no longer narcissistic. So, we've done it in psychotherapy. We So, we've done it in psychotherapy. We So, we've done it in psychotherapy. We know that if your self-esteem changes, know that if your self-esteem changes, know that if your self-esteem changes, if your sense of being changes, if your sense of being changes, if your sense of being changes, treatment refractory depression will treatment refractory depression will treatment refractory depression will change. Trauma, PTSD will change. Do you change. Trauma, PTSD will change. Do you change. Trauma, PTSD will change. Do you have your patients do neutra have your patients do neutra have your patients do neutra >> some of them? >> some of them? >> some of them? >> So I also have a whole I mean I I just >> So I also have a whole I mean I I just >> So I also have a whole I mean I I just started this research and then left started this research and then left started this research and then left academia but I was trying to develop academia but I was trying to develop academia but I was trying to develop evidence-based protocols for particular evidence-based protocols for particular evidence-based protocols for particular diagnosis for certain kinds of diagnosis for certain kinds of diagnosis for certain kinds of meditation practices. meditation practices. meditation practices. >> Beautiful. >> Beautiful. >> Beautiful. >> Right. So for narcissism I would lean >> Right. So for narcissism I would lean >> Right. So for narcissism I would lean into shunya practices for trauma healing into shunya practices for trauma healing into shunya practices for trauma healing and specifically the patients who come and specifically the patients who come and specifically the patients who come in who need a fundamental belief change in who need a fundamental belief change in who need a fundamental belief change if they just didn't believe this thing if they just didn't believe this thing if they just didn't believe this thing about themselves. So I had one patient about themselves. So I had one patient about themselves. So I had one patient who had a lot of trauma and the sun who had a lot of trauma and the sun who had a lot of trauma and the sun gulpa that she came up with or that we gulpa that she came up with or that we gulpa that she came up with or that we came up with together is I deserve to be came up with together is I deserve to be came up with together is I deserve to be whole not I am whole and then if if you whole not I am whole and then if if you whole not I am whole and then if if you think about a sunulpa that's a compass think about a sunulpa that's a compass think about a sunulpa that's a compass that you will navigate life with so the that you will navigate life with so the that you will navigate life with so the main thing is once it gets into her mind main thing is once it gets into her mind main thing is once it gets into her mind I deserve to be whole if people even her I deserve to be whole if people even her I deserve to be whole if people even her own she had a lot of self-sabotaging own she had a lot of self-sabotaging own she had a lot of self-sabotaging behaviors and it's like no I deserve to behaviors and it's like no I deserve to behaviors and it's like no I deserve to be whole right that is something that be whole right that is something that be whole right that is something that she and this isn't telling yourself this she and this isn't telling yourself this she and this isn't telling yourself this is the problem this I want to be is the problem this I want to be is the problem this I want to be precise. I know it sounds weird, but precise. I know it sounds weird, but precise. I know it sounds weird, but telling yourself is like there's a lot telling yourself is like there's a lot telling yourself is like there's a lot of mental activity and you're trying to of mental activity and you're trying to of mental activity and you're trying to say something from the outside. Like you say something from the outside. Like you say something from the outside. Like you can tell yourself, "Hey, Andrew, I'm can tell yourself, "Hey, Andrew, I'm can tell yourself, "Hey, Andrew, I'm going to remember this mathematical going to remember this mathematical going to remember this mathematical formula." Doesn't work. You can tell formula." Doesn't work. You can tell formula." Doesn't work. You can tell yourself all kinds of things, but like yourself all kinds of things, but like yourself all kinds of things, but like telling yourself is very surface level telling yourself is very surface level telling yourself is very surface level mental activity. That's not how change mental activity. That's not how change mental activity. That's not how change happens. So when we're talking about happens. So when we're talking about happens. So when we're talking about like narrative reconstruction post like narrative reconstruction post like narrative reconstruction post trauma and this is what's so terrible trauma and this is what's so terrible trauma and this is what's so terrible about social media, everyone's like about social media, everyone's like about social media, everyone's like consuming this like you know tell consuming this like you know tell consuming this like you know tell yourself every single day that this is yourself every single day that this is yourself every single day that this is true. That's not how you change your true. That's not how you change your true. That's not how you change your beliefs. Bel that's that the science of beliefs. Bel that's that the science of beliefs. Bel that's that the science of how beliefs change isn't by telling how beliefs change isn't by telling how beliefs change isn't by telling yourself things over and over and over yourself things over and over and over yourself things over and over and over again. That's gaslighting yourself. It's again. That's gaslighting yourself. It's again. That's gaslighting yourself. It's just trying to drown what you really just trying to drown what you really just trying to drown what you really believe with like it's like taking a believe with like it's like taking a believe with like it's like taking a piece of dog poop and putting icing on piece of dog poop and putting icing on piece of dog poop and putting icing on top. top. top. >> It's not how neuroplasticity works. >> It's not how neuroplasticity works. >> It's not how neuroplasticity works. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> I mean, I can say that with 100% >> I mean, I can say that with 100% >> I mean, I can say that with 100% confidence and my uh as a neuroscientist confidence and my uh as a neuroscientist confidence and my uh as a neuroscientist and you know, I don't claim any and you know, I don't claim any and you know, I don't claim any relationship to the work. My but my relationship to the work. My but my relationship to the work. My but my scientific great-grandparents won the scientific great-grandparents won the scientific great-grandparents won the Nobel Prize for neuroplasticity. Nobel Prize for neuroplasticity. Nobel Prize for neuroplasticity. It is a process that has certain It is a process that has certain It is a process that has certain requirements. They have to happen in a requirements. They have to happen in a requirements. They have to happen in a certain order and at a certain depth of certain order and at a certain depth of certain order and at a certain depth of of the nervous system, which is what of the nervous system, which is what of the nervous system, which is what you're describing. And so no amount of you're describing. And so no amount of you're describing. And so no amount of of repeating a phrase, of repeating a phrase, of repeating a phrase, >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> positive or negative, is going to u >> positive or negative, is going to u >> positive or negative, is going to u engage neuroplasticity. Yeah. engage neuroplasticity. Yeah. engage neuroplasticity. Yeah. >> And I wish I wish that people knew that >> And I wish I wish that people knew that >> And I wish I wish that people knew that because it would provide them a filter because it would provide them a filter because it would provide them a filter through a lot of So I think through a lot of So I think through a lot of So I think this this sulpa idea and this idea of this this sulpa idea and this idea of this this sulpa idea and this idea of like you know focus on being statements like you know focus on being statements like you know focus on being statements because being statements are like more because being statements are like more because being statements are like more primordial and they will ma they will primordial and they will ma they will primordial and they will ma they will result in the mental result in the mental result in the mental fluctuations of your mind in a different fluctuations of your mind in a different fluctuations of your mind in a different way right so they'll automatically way right so they'll automatically way right so they'll automatically result in a certain kind of desire in a result in a certain kind of desire in a result in a certain kind of desire in a certain kind of planning and a certain certain kind of planning and a certain certain kind of planning and a certain kind of inclination they're your most kind of inclination they're your most kind of inclination they're your most natural tendency and like I'm lazy like natural tendency and like I'm lazy like natural tendency and like I'm lazy like people don't realize this but like I'm people don't realize this but like I'm people don't realize this but like I'm lazy I'm still a degenerate gamer. You lazy I'm still a degenerate gamer. You lazy I'm still a degenerate gamer. You know, I don't like to work. I I work know, I don't like to work. I I work know, I don't like to work. I I work seven days a week, but it's not work. seven days a week, but it's not work. seven days a week, but it's not work. The only way I can work seven days a The only way I can work seven days a The only way I can work seven days a week is to shape my experience of the week is to shape my experience of the week is to shape my experience of the thing. And this is what a lot of people thing. And this is what a lot of people thing. And this is what a lot of people don't realize. This is a fascinating uh don't realize. This is a fascinating uh don't realize. This is a fascinating uh theory that I think is somewhat true theory that I think is somewhat true theory that I think is somewhat true called the theory of constructed called the theory of constructed called the theory of constructed emotion. emotion. emotion. So I forget who's the person who's the So I forget who's the person who's the So I forget who's the person who's the pioneer of it but it's sort of this idea pioneer of it but it's sort of this idea pioneer of it but it's sort of this idea that like we think that you know when that like we think that you know when that like we think that you know when something happens to us the emotion is something happens to us the emotion is something happens to us the emotion is automatic but we actually construct that automatic but we actually construct that automatic but we actually construct that emotion. emotion. emotion. >> We have a hand in how we receive the >> We have a hand in how we receive the >> We have a hand in how we receive the world around us right so you can people world around us right so you can people world around us right so you can people can criticize you but you can take it can criticize you but you can take it can criticize you but you can take it constructively the way that you mentally constructively the way that you mentally constructively the way that you mentally respond to something is huge. respond to something is huge. respond to something is huge. So when we when we're doing a sulpa, So when we when we're doing a sulpa, So when we when we're doing a sulpa, when we're doing yoga nidra, are we when we're doing yoga nidra, are we when we're doing yoga nidra, are we burning away samscars? Sure. The samscar burning away samscars? Sure. The samscar burning away samscars? Sure. The samscar is the negative emotional programming is the negative emotional programming is the negative emotional programming then the adaptation that we made. So then the adaptation that we made. So then the adaptation that we made. So it'll burn that stuff away. So you will it'll burn that stuff away. So you will it'll burn that stuff away. So you will be free of that stuff. But that's not be free of that stuff. But that's not be free of that stuff. But that's not what I would do that practice for. It's what I would do that practice for. It's what I would do that practice for. It's really to put a positive thing in there. really to put a positive thing in there. really to put a positive thing in there. And by having a being statement, it may And by having a being statement, it may And by having a being statement, it may somehow counteract. I think this is somehow counteract. I think this is somehow counteract. I think this is where like my science head I can't be where like my science head I can't be where like my science head I can't be precise enough. I sort of know that how precise enough. I sort of know that how precise enough. I sort of know that how a sunulp works. I've used it for myself. a sunulp works. I've used it for myself. a sunulp works. I've used it for myself. I've used it for many patients. It I've used it for many patients. It I've used it for many patients. It really is about attaining that really is about attaining that really is about attaining that neuroplasticity. It's about attaining neuroplasticity. It's about attaining neuroplasticity. It's about attaining that state of mind. And if you don't get that state of mind. And if you don't get that state of mind. And if you don't get there, it doesn't work. Then you're just there, it doesn't work. Then you're just there, it doesn't work. Then you're just repeating things to yourself. Which is repeating things to yourself. Which is repeating things to yourself. Which is why there's such an emphasis on the why there's such an emphasis on the why there's such an emphasis on the physiology because in order to enter physiology because in order to enter physiology because in order to enter into that state of mind, we have to be into that state of mind, we have to be into that state of mind, we have to be really precise with what we're doing really precise with what we're doing really precise with what we're doing autonomically, physiologically. autonomically, physiologically. autonomically, physiologically. Do you think that uh liinal states Do you think that uh liinal states Do you think that uh liinal states between sleep and awake are also a between sleep and awake are also a between sleep and awake are also a valuable opportunity for people to valuable opportunity for people to valuable opportunity for people to rewire their beliefs about themselves um rewire their beliefs about themselves um rewire their beliefs about themselves um and engage neuroplasticity? and engage neuroplasticity? and engage neuroplasticity? >> Absolutely. So hypnogogic hypnopic >> Absolutely. So hypnogogic hypnopic >> Absolutely. So hypnogogic hypnopic hallucinations are like good examples of hallucinations are like good examples of hallucinations are like good examples of this that state is really weird. So this that state is really weird. So this that state is really weird. So there is one of the 112 techniques that there is one of the 112 techniques that there is one of the 112 techniques that will bring you to enlightenment is to will bring you to enlightenment is to will bring you to enlightenment is to catch the moment of sleep. catch the moment of sleep. catch the moment of sleep. Beautiful technique. incredibly hard to Beautiful technique. incredibly hard to Beautiful technique. incredibly hard to do. So, this is something that people do. So, this is something that people do. So, this is something that people need to understand when we're talking need to understand when we're talking need to understand when we're talking about meditation. I want y'all to about meditation. I want y'all to about meditation. I want y'all to understand that this is a technique that understand that this is a technique that understand that this is a technique that I did for 12 years before seeing a I did for 12 years before seeing a I did for 12 years before seeing a single result. single result. single result. And this technique will give you and now And this technique will give you and now And this technique will give you and now we're going completely off the rails, we're going completely off the rails, we're going completely off the rails, okay? Uh will give you a lot of insight okay? Uh will give you a lot of insight okay? Uh will give you a lot of insight into your past lives. So, there's into your past lives. So, there's into your past lives. So, there's something and we we can get into the something and we we can get into the something and we we can get into the science of that if you want to. Um but science of that if you want to. Um but science of that if you want to. Um but like there's something like when people like there's something like when people like there's something like when people come to me and they say hey like I want come to me and they say hey like I want come to me and they say hey like I want to learn about my past lives the to learn about my past lives the to learn about my past lives the technique that I give them is to focus technique that I give them is to focus technique that I give them is to focus on the liinal state between on the liinal state between on the liinal state between consciousness and sleep and specifically consciousness and sleep and specifically consciousness and sleep and specifically to catch the moment of sleep to so to to catch the moment of sleep to so to to catch the moment of sleep to so to see yourself fall asleep. So I do that see yourself fall asleep. So I do that see yourself fall asleep. So I do that in nidra I can observe myself falling in nidra I can observe myself falling in nidra I can observe myself falling asleep and I'm aware that I'm falling asleep and I'm aware that I'm falling asleep and I'm aware that I'm falling asleep but I'm not lucid dreaming I'm asleep but I'm not lucid dreaming I'm asleep but I'm not lucid dreaming I'm I'm watching myself sleep. Um it's a and I'm watching myself sleep. Um it's a and I'm watching myself sleep. Um it's a and it and I literally feel like I'm it and I literally feel like I'm it and I literally feel like I'm falling. There's probably some falling. There's probably some falling. There's probably some deactivation of the vestibular system or deactivation of the vestibular system or deactivation of the vestibular system or something going on there. Um something going on there. Um something going on there. Um >> propriceptive hallucination. >> propriceptive hallucination. >> propriceptive hallucination. >> Yeah. So some something going on. Um >> Yeah. So some something going on. Um >> Yeah. So some something going on. Um I mean what we're talking about here is I mean what we're talking about here is I mean what we're talking about here is to really just break it down is deeply to really just break it down is deeply to really just break it down is deeply relaxed state. So so autonomic tone is relaxed state. So so autonomic tone is relaxed state. So so autonomic tone is very parasympathetic but al but alert very parasympathetic but al but alert very parasympathetic but al but alert enough to observe the self. So this is enough to observe the self. So this is enough to observe the self. So this is an unusual state, right? Because I an unusual state, right? Because I an unusual state, right? Because I normally think about the autonomic normally think about the autonomic normally think about the autonomic nervous system like a seessaw, nervous system like a seessaw, nervous system like a seessaw, parasympathetic, sympathetic. So alert, parasympathetic, sympathetic. So alert, parasympathetic, sympathetic. So alert, stressed, panic, or asleep, coma, stressed, panic, or asleep, coma, stressed, panic, or asleep, coma, dead, right? You know, and it's going dead, right? You know, and it's going dead, right? You know, and it's going back and forth the entire time we're back and forth the entire time we're back and forth the entire time we're alive. But what we're talking about here alive. But what we're talking about here alive. But what we're talking about here is a weird kind of bending of the is a weird kind of bending of the is a weird kind of bending of the seessaw where we're both very relaxed seessaw where we're both very relaxed seessaw where we're both very relaxed and very alert. And in that state, the and very alert. And in that state, the and very alert. And in that state, the the brain is more available for for the brain is more available for for the brain is more available for for instruction, for for for editing. Many instruction, for for for editing. Many instruction, for for for editing. Many people I think use psychedelics trying people I think use psychedelics trying people I think use psychedelics trying to achieve this state. to achieve this state. to achieve this state. That's one avenue. I I think it it would That's one avenue. I I think it it would That's one avenue. I I think it it would be amazing if there were more uh faster be amazing if there were more uh faster be amazing if there were more uh faster entry points. 12 years is a long time. I entry points. 12 years is a long time. I entry points. 12 years is a long time. I hear that. Other people hear that like, hear that. Other people hear that like, hear that. Other people hear that like, oh you know, that's that's a lot oh you know, that's that's a lot oh you know, that's that's a lot of meditating before I get where I want of meditating before I get where I want of meditating before I get where I want to be. But do you think that there's to be. But do you think that there's to be. But do you think that there's opportunity for nidra and um excuse me opportunity for nidra and um excuse me opportunity for nidra and um excuse me um uh Shina, the void meditation to be um uh Shina, the void meditation to be um uh Shina, the void meditation to be valuable in the short term as well? This valuable in the short term as well? This valuable in the short term as well? This is one of the 112 Dantra techniques. is one of the 112 Dantra techniques. is one of the 112 Dantra techniques. >> It's just that technique. >> It's just that technique. >> It's just that technique. >> Yeah, that that's a really hard one >> Yeah, that that's a really hard one >> Yeah, that that's a really hard one because it has no preparatory practice. because it has no preparatory practice. because it has no preparatory practice. It has no physiology to it. It's just It has no physiology to it. It's just It has no physiology to it. It's just catch the moment of sleep. That's it. catch the moment of sleep. That's it. catch the moment of sleep. That's it. >> So that's where you know that technique >> So that's where you know that technique >> So that's where you know that technique is normally if you've trained yourself is normally if you've trained yourself is normally if you've trained yourself then you can do it but it's really hard then you can do it but it's really hard then you can do it but it's really hard to do just off the cuff. to do just off the cuff. to do just off the cuff. >> Nidra is very helpful from the get-go, >> Nidra is very helpful from the get-go, >> Nidra is very helpful from the get-go, right? So from an autonomic nervous right? So from an autonomic nervous right? So from an autonomic nervous system standpoint very helpful. We tend system standpoint very helpful. We tend system standpoint very helpful. We tend to be hyperympathetically activated. So to be hyperympathetically activated. So to be hyperympathetically activated. So yoga nidra is very good for yoga nidra is very good for yoga nidra is very good for parasympathetic activation. Yoga nidra parasympathetic activation. Yoga nidra parasympathetic activation. Yoga nidra is also very good for the rotation of is also very good for the rotation of is also very good for the rotation of your smataensory cortex. your smataensory cortex. your smataensory cortex. >> So you know like we have this idea of >> So you know like we have this idea of >> So you know like we have this idea of the homunculus that's not really what it the homunculus that's not really what it the homunculus that's not really what it is and we can if I'm wrong of self is and we can if I'm wrong of self is and we can if I'm wrong of self >> yeah right. So so really what it is your >> yeah right. So so really what it is your >> yeah right. So so really what it is your smata sensory cortex is plastic smata sensory cortex is plastic smata sensory cortex is plastic >> and when you do rotations of awareness >> and when you do rotations of awareness >> and when you do rotations of awareness through your body it's really good for through your body it's really good for through your body it's really good for you really helps with things like you really helps with things like you really helps with things like chronic pain. Um, and so in chronic chronic pain. Um, and so in chronic chronic pain. Um, and so in chronic pain, what happens is patients their pain, what happens is patients their pain, what happens is patients their semata sensory cortex is literally semata sensory cortex is literally semata sensory cortex is literally locked into the part of the of their locked into the part of the of their locked into the part of the of their body that's in pain. People think that body that's in pain. People think that body that's in pain. People think that and it's a it's a you know it's a and it's a it's a you know it's a and it's a it's a you know it's a self-reinforcing thing where something self-reinforcing thing where something self-reinforcing thing where something hurts so your brain is thinking about it hurts so your brain is thinking about it hurts so your brain is thinking about it and the more that your brain thinks and the more that your brain thinks and the more that your brain thinks about it the more that it hurts. So about it the more that it hurts. So about it the more that it hurts. So Nidra is really good from the get-go and Nidra is really good from the get-go and Nidra is really good from the get-go and and that's where I sort of think about and that's where I sort of think about and that's where I sort of think about the benefits of meditation as first of the benefits of meditation as first of the benefits of meditation as first of all scientific to woo woo this we know all scientific to woo woo this we know all scientific to woo woo this we know works. this we have no clue. Um, in my works. this we have no clue. Um, in my works. this we have no clue. Um, in my personal journey it's been really weird. personal journey it's been really weird. personal journey it's been really weird. So I I was brought to this weird So I I was brought to this weird So I I was brought to this weird mystical stuff like kicking and mystical stuff like kicking and mystical stuff like kicking and screaming where you know once you're screaming where you know once you're screaming where you know once you're you're meditating one day and you have a you're meditating one day and you have a you're meditating one day and you have a memory from your past life you sit there memory from your past life you sit there memory from your past life you sit there and you're like what the is that? and you're like what the is that? and you're like what the is that? Like is this a hallucination? Is this Like is this a hallucination? Is this Like is this a hallucination? Is this some form of genetic memory? Like is some form of genetic memory? Like is some form of genetic memory? Like is this epigenetic memory? Like what is this epigenetic memory? Like what is this epigenetic memory? Like what is this? I have no idea. So I'm not saying this? I have no idea. So I'm not saying this? I have no idea. So I'm not saying that past lives even exist. All I'm that past lives even exist. All I'm that past lives even exist. All I'm saying is that there are things that saying is that there are things that saying is that there are things that maybe some people can do that will give maybe some people can do that will give maybe some people can do that will give you the illusion of a past life. That's you the illusion of a past life. That's you the illusion of a past life. That's all we know, right? There's no, this is all we know, right? There's no, this is all we know, right? There's no, this is where I think a lot of people are very where I think a lot of people are very where I think a lot of people are very unscientific because they say if I have unscientific because they say if I have unscientific because they say if I have a memory of something that didn't a memory of something that didn't a memory of something that didn't happen, that means it hap No, it didn't. happen, that means it hap No, it didn't. happen, that means it hap No, it didn't. The human brain constructs memory all The human brain constructs memory all The human brain constructs memory all the time. Most of our memory is stuff the time. Most of our memory is stuff the time. Most of our memory is stuff that didn't happen. Actually, that didn't happen. Actually, that didn't happen. Actually, technically, technically, technically, >> I have to say I I don't want to >> I have to say I I don't want to >> I have to say I I don't want to interrupt your flow, but I just have to interrupt your flow, but I just have to interrupt your flow, but I just have to say because I'm I'm feeling it and I'm say because I'm I'm feeling it and I'm say because I'm I'm feeling it and I'm not saying this to make you feel good, not saying this to make you feel good, not saying this to make you feel good, but if it does, uh, great. I mean, but if it does, uh, great. I mean, but if it does, uh, great. I mean, you're one of the more intellectually you're one of the more intellectually you're one of the more intellectually supple people I've ever encountered. I supple people I've ever encountered. I supple people I've ever encountered. I hope that lands because it, you know, hope that lands because it, you know, hope that lands because it, you know, I've been around a lot of well-educated I've been around a lot of well-educated I've been around a lot of well-educated people and a lot of practitioners. people and a lot of practitioners. people and a lot of practitioners. Everything from former Mr. Olympias to Everything from former Mr. Olympias to Everything from former Mr. Olympias to Rick Rubin to David Show. I mean we've I Rick Rubin to David Show. I mean we've I Rick Rubin to David Show. I mean we've I mean Martha Beck I mean who has three mean Martha Beck I mean who has three mean Martha Beck I mean who has three degrees from Harvard but talks about degrees from Harvard but talks about degrees from Harvard but talks about spiritual downloads and I have to say spiritual downloads and I have to say spiritual downloads and I have to say like I feel what's missing from like I feel what's missing from like I feel what's missing from health public health mental health health public health mental health health public health mental health physical health performance you know physical health performance you know physical health performance you know broadly speaking is this ability to broadly speaking is this ability to broadly speaking is this ability to understand how the ancient practices are understand how the ancient practices are understand how the ancient practices are really of benefit where the neuroscience really of benefit where the neuroscience really of benefit where the neuroscience and other forms of science can explain and other forms of science can explain and other forms of science can explain it but also So to acknowledge that even it but also So to acknowledge that even it but also So to acknowledge that even where we don't have mechanistic where we don't have mechanistic where we don't have mechanistic understanding there's value in the understanding there's value in the understanding there's value in the practices like if you know I really practices like if you know I really practices like if you know I really believe that the healing that everyone believe that the healing that everyone believe that the healing that everyone wants so badly for themselves and for wants so badly for themselves and for wants so badly for themselves and for the world I really believe that most the world I really believe that most the world I really believe that most people want that resides in this people want that resides in this people want that resides in this business of going inward that only we business of going inward that only we business of going inward that only we can only do for ourselves and seeing can only do for ourselves and seeing can only do for ourselves and seeing where our is burning it down where our is burning it down where our is burning it down and unlearning the stuff that makes us and unlearning the stuff that makes us and unlearning the stuff that makes us uncom kind to ourselves and others and uncom kind to ourselves and others and uncom kind to ourselves and others and unproductive. You know, I think one of unproductive. You know, I think one of unproductive. You know, I think one of the dangers in discussions around yoga the dangers in discussions around yoga the dangers in discussions around yoga and and uh these things is some people and and uh these things is some people and and uh these things is some people will think, okay, this is naval gazing. will think, okay, this is naval gazing. will think, okay, this is naval gazing. This is all me stuff. This is, you know, This is all me stuff. This is, you know, This is all me stuff. This is, you know, you just got to, you know, get out into you just got to, you know, get out into you just got to, you know, get out into the world and do stuff. But when we the world and do stuff. But when we the world and do stuff. But when we hosted James Hollis, 84y old Yungian hosted James Hollis, 84y old Yungian hosted James Hollis, 84y old Yungian analyst, he said there are two things analyst, he said there are two things analyst, he said there are two things that are critical to a good life of if I that are critical to a good life of if I that are critical to a good life of if I may. He said, may. He said, may. He said, "Every day you have to shut up." These "Every day you have to shut up." These "Every day you have to shut up." These are his words. He said, "You got to shut are his words. He said, "You got to shut are his words. He said, "You got to shut up, meaning no whining. Be grateful. up, meaning no whining. Be grateful. up, meaning no whining. Be grateful. You need to suit up, meaning you need to You need to suit up, meaning you need to You need to suit up, meaning you need to prepare for your roles in life. And then prepare for your roles in life. And then prepare for your roles in life. And then you need to show up to your roles in you need to show up to your roles in you need to show up to your roles in life. But you also need to spend some life. But you also need to spend some life. But you also need to spend some time getting out of stimulus and time getting out of stimulus and time getting out of stimulus and response, going inward, and really response, going inward, and really response, going inward, and really touching in with what he called your touching in with what he called your touching in with what he called your genuine heart's desires." And when he genuine heart's desires." And when he genuine heart's desires." And when he said that, I thought like perfect. This said that, I thought like perfect. This said that, I thought like perfect. This is the the ambition, the doing, the is the the ambition, the doing, the is the the ambition, the doing, the getting things done in life that we have getting things done in life that we have getting things done in life that we have to do because no one wants to be the to do because no one wants to be the to do because no one wants to be the loser you described earlier. Like no one loser you described earlier. Like no one loser you described earlier. Like no one wants to be that person. And at the same wants to be that person. And at the same wants to be that person. And at the same time, no one wants to be, many people time, no one wants to be, many people time, no one wants to be, many people think they want to be, but nobody wants think they want to be, but nobody wants think they want to be, but nobody wants to be the person that sold the company, to be the person that sold the company, to be the person that sold the company, got the marriage and the kids, and is got the marriage and the kids, and is got the marriage and the kids, and is miserable because they took a path that miserable because they took a path that miserable because they took a path that wasn't really for them. That they should wasn't really for them. That they should wasn't really for them. That they should have done that with someone else. They have done that with someone else. They have done that with someone else. They literally have the wrong no one would literally have the wrong no one would literally have the wrong no one would say they have the wrong kids but they say they have the wrong kids but they say they have the wrong kids but they have the wrong life right and so I think have the wrong life right and so I think have the wrong life right and so I think that what you're describing is the that what you're describing is the that what you're describing is the roadmap and it involves this going roadmap and it involves this going roadmap and it involves this going inward and I think that that the inward and I think that that the inward and I think that that the language around yogic practices for language around yogic practices for language around yogic practices for westerners is the separator it's where westerners is the separator it's where westerners is the separator it's where people brace and they go what are they people brace and they go what are they people brace and they go what are they really talking about here this is this really talking about here this is this really talking about here this is this and so as as a practitioner in the west and so as as a practitioner in the west and so as as a practitioner in the west with this eastern mindset woven And how with this eastern mindset woven And how with this eastern mindset woven And how do you bring that to your patients? How do you bring that to your patients? How do you bring that to your patients? How do you how do you convince them that do you how do you convince them that do you how do you convince them that this is the path? Because I really this is the path? Because I really this is the path? Because I really believe it is the path and I think it's believe it is the path and I think it's believe it is the path and I think it's actually the the most important thing actually the the most important thing actually the the most important thing that any of us can do for ourselves. that any of us can do for ourselves. that any of us can do for ourselves. First thing is I don't try to convince First thing is I don't try to convince First thing is I don't try to convince anyone of anything. So convincing is not anyone of anything. So convincing is not anyone of anything. So convincing is not an objective that I have. So I love an objective that I have. So I love an objective that I have. So I love research consume a bunch of research. research consume a bunch of research. research consume a bunch of research. But there's a basic problem with science But there's a basic problem with science But there's a basic problem with science which is when we do a randomized control which is when we do a randomized control which is when we do a randomized control trial, we learn about a population. We trial, we learn about a population. We trial, we learn about a population. We don't learn about a person. So we can don't learn about a person. So we can don't learn about a person. So we can say that SSRIs improve major depressive say that SSRIs improve major depressive say that SSRIs improve major depressive disorder by about 50% let's say. But if disorder by about 50% let's say. But if disorder by about 50% let's say. But if a patient walks into my office, I have a patient walks into my office, I have a patient walks into my office, I have no idea if an SSRI is going to help no idea if an SSRI is going to help no idea if an SSRI is going to help them. Does that kind of make sense? So them. Does that kind of make sense? So them. Does that kind of make sense? So there's a basic problem of external there's a basic problem of external there's a basic problem of external validity of all of our science, all of validity of all of our science, all of validity of all of our science, all of our medical science. Anyway, I'm not our medical science. Anyway, I'm not our medical science. Anyway, I'm not sure about opto or neuroscience, but sure about opto or neuroscience, but sure about opto or neuroscience, but when you apply it to a person, some when you apply it to a person, some when you apply it to a person, some stuff works and some stuff doesn't work. stuff works and some stuff doesn't work. stuff works and some stuff doesn't work. So, my focus is on helping like a So, my focus is on helping like a So, my focus is on helping like a person. person. person. And then the you don't need the woowoo And then the you don't need the woowoo And then the you don't need the woowoo stuff. I think the the the the important stuff. I think the the the the important stuff. I think the the the the important thing is like understand your ego. Like thing is like understand your ego. Like thing is like understand your ego. Like that's a fundamental thing that is that's a fundamental thing that is that's a fundamental thing that is missing from western psychology, but we missing from western psychology, but we missing from western psychology, but we all intuitively understand it. This all intuitively understand it. This all intuitively understand it. This person is egotistical, right? Second person is egotistical, right? Second person is egotistical, right? Second thing is like things like perception. thing is like things like perception. thing is like things like perception. Understand your perception. Your Understand your perception. Your Understand your perception. Your perception and you were talking about perception and you were talking about perception and you were talking about the internet. The basic problem with the the internet. The basic problem with the the internet. The basic problem with the internet is that it is allowed human internet is that it is allowed human internet is that it is allowed human beings to no longer live in the same beings to no longer live in the same beings to no longer live in the same world. world. world. This is where AI is even worse. So the This is where AI is even worse. So the This is where AI is even worse. So the more algorithmic you are. So the problem more algorithmic you are. So the problem more algorithmic you are. So the problem with an algorithm is it shapes your with an algorithm is it shapes your with an algorithm is it shapes your perception. perception. perception. It it be it radicalizes your perception. It it be it radicalizes your perception. It it be it radicalizes your perception. So an algorithm shows you thing one and So an algorithm shows you thing one and So an algorithm shows you thing one and then it'll only show you things in that then it'll only show you things in that then it'll only show you things in that tunnel. Does that kind of make sense? So tunnel. Does that kind of make sense? So tunnel. Does that kind of make sense? So you go further and further down the you go further and further down the you go further and further down the tunnel and you were living in a tunnel and you were living in a tunnel and you were living in a different world than everybody else is different world than everybody else is different world than everybody else is living in. AI is even worse if this is living in. AI is even worse if this is living in. AI is even worse if this is which is why it's really scary. But which is why it's really scary. But which is why it's really scary. But there's a first case report of really AI there's a first case report of really AI there's a first case report of really AI induced psychosis in a patient that did induced psychosis in a patient that did induced psychosis in a patient that did not have any history of psychosis. not have any history of psychosis. not have any history of psychosis. >> How does that even come about? What are >> How does that even come about? What are >> How does that even come about? What are they talking to the AI about? they talking to the AI about? they talking to the AI about? >> We can get into that if you want. It's >> We can get into that if you want. It's >> We can get into that if you want. It's actually really scary, but we know the actually really scary, but we know the actually really scary, but we know the mechanism. So here's the cool thing mechanism. So here's the cool thing mechanism. So here's the cool thing about this case report. This person got about this case report. This person got about this case report. This person got hospitalized for psychosis was started hospitalized for psychosis was started hospitalized for psychosis was started on an antiscychotic psychosis resolves. on an antiscychotic psychosis resolves. on an antiscychotic psychosis resolves. They get discharged, stop the the the They get discharged, stop the the the They get discharged, stop the the the antiscychotic, start to use AI again and antiscychotic, start to use AI again and antiscychotic, start to use AI again and become psychotic again. It's really become psychotic again. It's really become psychotic again. It's really scary. And the basic problem is that AI scary. And the basic problem is that AI scary. And the basic problem is that AI is so sick of is so sick of is so sick of our reality testing of the world our reality testing of the world our reality testing of the world requires contrary opinions, requires contrary opinions, requires contrary opinions, right? So like when you're like, "Hey, I right? So like when you're like, "Hey, I right? So like when you're like, "Hey, I have this idea. I want to test throw have this idea. I want to test throw have this idea. I want to test throw something by you." And then I say no. something by you." And then I say no. something by you." And then I say no. >> So how do we know what reality is? >> So how do we know what reality is? >> So how do we know what reality is? Because we have this perception, but Because we have this perception, but Because we have this perception, but this person has this perception. This this person has this perception. This this person has this perception. This person has this perception. So we person has this perception. So we person has this perception. So we modulate our perception. Hey, I I I got modulate our perception. Hey, I I I got modulate our perception. Hey, I I I got you a gift. No, you didn't. What? I told you a gift. No, you didn't. What? I told you a gift. No, you didn't. What? I told you yesterday that I was going to pick you yesterday that I was going to pick you yesterday that I was going to pick this up. No, you didn't tell me that. So this up. No, you didn't tell me that. So this up. No, you didn't tell me that. So we stay in reality because we get we stay in reality because we get we stay in reality because we get signals from reality. The thing about signals from reality. The thing about signals from reality. The thing about the the AIs is they're lang language the the AIs is they're lang language the the AIs is they're lang language learning models. They don't actually learning models. They don't actually learning models. They don't actually know anything. know anything. know anything. All they do is scrape the internet. And All they do is scrape the internet. And All they do is scrape the internet. And this is a simplification. I'm not a data this is a simplification. I'm not a data this is a simplification. I'm not a data scientist or AI engineer, but here's my scientist or AI engineer, but here's my scientist or AI engineer, but here's my understanding because people wanted to understanding because people wanted to understanding because people wanted to build like a Dr. K chatbot. And I try to build like a Dr. K chatbot. And I try to build like a Dr. K chatbot. And I try to get into understanding the mechanism. get into understanding the mechanism. get into understanding the mechanism. What an AI does is it just says a word What an AI does is it just says a word What an AI does is it just says a word and then it pred it tries to figure out and then it pred it tries to figure out and then it pred it tries to figure out which words are going to make you happy. which words are going to make you happy. which words are going to make you happy. That's how it knows what's right or That's how it knows what's right or That's how it knows what's right or wrong. The user satisfaction is the wrong. The user satisfaction is the wrong. The user satisfaction is the ultimate thing that they're they're ultimate thing that they're they're ultimate thing that they're they're going for. So there's a lot of data that going for. So there's a lot of data that going for. So there's a lot of data that shows that literally there's a really shows that literally there's a really shows that literally there's a really cool paper I can I can send it to you cool paper I can I can send it to you cool paper I can I can send it to you later but that shows that the number of later but that shows that the number of later but that shows that the number of statements that you have the the more statements that you have the the more statements that you have the the more sickopantic it becomes and the more sickopantic it becomes and the more sickopantic it becomes and the more paranoid people will become. So, like, paranoid people will become. So, like, paranoid people will become. So, like, you know, there's another case of you know, there's another case of you know, there's another case of someone who um someone who um someone who um murdered their mom and then committed murdered their mom and then committed murdered their mom and then committed suicide because as they expressed suicide because as they expressed suicide because as they expressed concerns about their mom, the AI concerns about their mom, the AI concerns about their mom, the AI reinforces that and says, "Yeah, you're reinforces that and says, "Yeah, you're reinforces that and says, "Yeah, you're right. Like, these people are leaving right. Like, these people are leaving right. Like, these people are leaving you out, right?" Because it's like you out, right?" Because it's like you out, right?" Because it's like trying to make you feel bad, trying to make you feel bad, trying to make you feel bad, >> why' they kill themselves? >> why' they kill themselves? >> why' they kill themselves? >> I don't know the full details of the >> I don't know the full details of the >> I don't know the full details of the case. And and this is what's really case. And and this is what's really case. And and this is what's really scary about the AI stuff is like people scary about the AI stuff is like people scary about the AI stuff is like people will say, right? So like a lot of people will say, right? So like a lot of people will say, right? So like a lot of people will make the claim, oh yeah, like if will make the claim, oh yeah, like if will make the claim, oh yeah, like if you're mentally unwell and then you use you're mentally unwell and then you use you're mentally unwell and then you use AI. So a lot of AI companies will say AI. So a lot of AI companies will say AI. So a lot of AI companies will say it's people who are high risk will use it's people who are high risk will use it's people who are high risk will use the AI and it it activates their the AI and it it activates their the AI and it it activates their delusions. But Andrew, here's what's delusions. But Andrew, here's what's delusions. But Andrew, here's what's really scary. In order to make that I really scary. In order to make that I really scary. In order to make that I don't know if this makes sense, like don't know if this makes sense, like don't know if this makes sense, like this is kind of read my mind question, this is kind of read my mind question, this is kind of read my mind question, but in order to say only at risk people but in order to say only at risk people but in order to say only at risk people will become psychotic from AI, what data will become psychotic from AI, what data will become psychotic from AI, what data do you need to make that statement? I do you need to make that statement? I do you need to make that statement? I think you need people to be harmed by AI think you need people to be harmed by AI think you need people to be harmed by AI to have have that basis. to have have that basis. to have have that basis. >> Yeah. So in in my mind from a clinical >> Yeah. So in in my mind from a clinical >> Yeah. So in in my mind from a clinical perspective in order to make the claim perspective in order to make the claim perspective in order to make the claim that AI only makes vulnerable people that AI only makes vulnerable people that AI only makes vulnerable people psychotic, mentally ill people psychotic, mentally ill people psychotic, mentally ill people psychotic, you need to have your control psychotic, you need to have your control psychotic, you need to have your control group, which is people who are not group, which is people who are not group, which is people who are not mentally ill. You need to have your mentally ill. You need to have your mentally ill. You need to have your intervention group, which is people who intervention group, which is people who intervention group, which is people who are mentally ill. You need to give them are mentally ill. You need to give them are mentally ill. You need to give them an intervention and you need to measure an intervention and you need to measure an intervention and you need to measure their psychosis at the other end. No AI their psychosis at the other end. No AI their psychosis at the other end. No AI company I've ever heard of has ever done company I've ever heard of has ever done company I've ever heard of has ever done that. Does that make sense? Like that. Does that make sense? Like that. Does that make sense? Like fundamentally, they are not determining fundamentally, they are not determining fundamentally, they are not determining ahead of time whether this person is ahead of time whether this person is ahead of time whether this person is mentally ill or not. And they don't mentally ill or not. And they don't mentally ill or not. And they don't they're not they're not monitoring they're not they're not monitoring they're not they're not monitoring psychosis. psychosis. psychosis. >> Well, I think the studies that have not >> Well, I think the studies that have not >> Well, I think the studies that have not been done, at least not until recently, been done, at least not until recently, been done, at least not until recently, that needed to be done and desperately that needed to be done and desperately that needed to be done and desperately need to be done is to evaluate what are need to be done is to evaluate what are need to be done is to evaluate what are the neuroplastic changes that are caused the neuroplastic changes that are caused the neuroplastic changes that are caused by social media and AI. I mean, these by social media and AI. I mean, these by social media and AI. I mean, these are the the uh digital anvils that we're are the the uh digital anvils that we're are the the uh digital anvils that we're shaping especially young brains on and shaping especially young brains on and shaping especially young brains on and now we're surprised like oh you know now we're surprised like oh you know now we're surprised like oh you know from 2010 to you know 2025 everyone's from 2010 to you know 2025 everyone's from 2010 to you know 2025 everyone's been you know progress using been you know progress using been you know progress using progressively more social media online progressively more social media online progressively more social media online more and oh we got brain rod and oh we more and oh we got brain rod and oh we more and oh we got brain rod and oh we and and surprise surprise like well no and and surprise surprise like well no and and surprise surprise like well no there's this thing called plasticity there's this thing called plasticity there's this thing called plasticity that we knew about it's just we didn't that we knew about it's just we didn't that we knew about it's just we didn't understand how the brain gets modified understand how the brain gets modified understand how the brain gets modified on these platforms on these algorithms on these platforms on these algorithms on these platforms on these algorithms >> and instead we looked that it was like >> and instead we looked that it was like >> and instead we looked that it was like we were so focused on the content but we were so focused on the content but we were so focused on the content but not the the algorithmic underpinnings of not the the algorithmic underpinnings of not the the algorithmic underpinnings of the content. the content. the content. >> Excellent. So, so I am convinced there >> Excellent. So, so I am convinced there >> Excellent. So, so I am convinced there is not great data because it's early but is not great data because it's early but is not great data because it's early but I am convinced that basically because we I am convinced that basically because we I am convinced that basically because we know this from like basic psychology, know this from like basic psychology, know this from like basic psychology, right? Like AI is basically like a cult right? Like AI is basically like a cult right? Like AI is basically like a cult of one. You get indoctrinated in your of one. You get indoctrinated in your of one. You get indoctrinated in your own thoughts. So whatever you say to the own thoughts. So whatever you say to the own thoughts. So whatever you say to the AI is what the AI will tell you back. AI is what the AI will tell you back. AI is what the AI will tell you back. >> This is the narcissism. what you >> This is the narcissism. what you >> This is the narcissism. what you described before that the AI becoming described before that the AI becoming described before that the AI becoming more sick of fantic person getting more more sick of fantic person getting more more sick of fantic person getting more paranoid. You know the image that was in paranoid. You know the image that was in paranoid. You know the image that was in my mind? my mind? my mind? >> What was an eccentric billionaire who >> What was an eccentric billionaire who >> What was an eccentric billionaire who can control everything in their can control everything in their can control everything in their environment but is terrified and is environment but is terrified and is environment but is terrified and is controlling of everything because they controlling of everything because they controlling of everything because they feel like they're vulnerable if they feel like they're vulnerable if they feel like they're vulnerable if they don't. That's exactly what you describe don't. That's exactly what you describe don't. That's exactly what you describe AI is doing to essentially everyone. AI is doing to essentially everyone. AI is doing to essentially everyone. >> And and we'll see it also like not only >> And and we'll see it also like not only >> And and we'll see it also like not only in the in the billionaire. So the and in the in the billionaire. So the and in the in the billionaire. So the and there there there are some cool studies there there there are some cool studies there there there are some cool studies that show basically like who's at risk. that show basically like who's at risk. that show basically like who's at risk. So it's really fascinating what the risk So it's really fascinating what the risk So it's really fascinating what the risk factors are. The amount of usage is factors are. The amount of usage is factors are. The amount of usage is huge. Um so the more you use AI, the huge. Um so the more you use AI, the huge. Um so the more you use AI, the more likely this is to happen to you. more likely this is to happen to you. more likely this is to happen to you. But I I kid you not, I'm really I'm not But I I kid you not, I'm really I'm not But I I kid you not, I'm really I'm not trying to be alarmist. As a trying to be alarmist. As a trying to be alarmist. As a psychiatrist, when someone comes into my psychiatrist, when someone comes into my psychiatrist, when someone comes into my office, I ask them, "Do you use meth?" office, I ask them, "Do you use meth?" office, I ask them, "Do you use meth?" because I'm trying to assess their risk because I'm trying to assess their risk because I'm trying to assess their risk of becoming psychotic based on something of becoming psychotic based on something of becoming psychotic based on something that is not like schizophrenia or type that is not like schizophrenia or type that is not like schizophrenia or type one bipolar disease. Now I'm starting to one bipolar disease. Now I'm starting to one bipolar disease. Now I'm starting to ask people, do you use AI? How much? So ask people, do you use AI? How much? So ask people, do you use AI? How much? So I'll ask them these questions. How much I'll ask them these questions. How much I'll ask them these questions. How much do you use AI? Do you customize the AI do you use AI? Do you customize the AI do you use AI? Do you customize the AI to be more effective for what you want? to be more effective for what you want? to be more effective for what you want? So this is what's really scary is like So this is what's really scary is like So this is what's really scary is like this is what people call prompt this is what people call prompt this is what people call prompt engineering, right? Do you train the AI engineering, right? Do you train the AI engineering, right? Do you train the AI to give you more effective answers? to give you more effective answers? to give you more effective answers? um do you use the AI for mental health um do you use the AI for mental health um do you use the AI for mental health issues? And do you find that the AI's issues? And do you find that the AI's issues? And do you find that the AI's answers are far superior to humans? answers are far superior to humans? answers are far superior to humans? And these are the these are four of the And these are the these are four of the And these are the these are four of the seven proposed risk factors for like bad seven proposed risk factors for like bad seven proposed risk factors for like bad outcomes from AI. And the crazy thing is outcomes from AI. And the crazy thing is outcomes from AI. And the crazy thing is like this is the use case, right? Like like this is the use case, right? Like like this is the use case, right? Like we want people to be using AI more. We we want people to be using AI more. We we want people to be using AI more. We the whole point is that AI is better the whole point is that AI is better the whole point is that AI is better than other people. I'm going to use than other people. I'm going to use than other people. I'm going to use prompt engineering and I you know in my prompt engineering and I you know in my prompt engineering and I you know in my community there's a lot of mental community there's a lot of mental community there's a lot of mental illness and a lot a lot of mental illness and a lot a lot of mental illness and a lot a lot of mental struggles so a lot of people will use AI struggles so a lot of people will use AI struggles so a lot of people will use AI and it's really scary that like the use and it's really scary that like the use and it's really scary that like the use case is the risk factor and I really case is the risk factor and I really case is the risk factor and I really think that there's a chance I don't think that there's a chance I don't think that there's a chance I don't think AI is evil or all bad or anything think AI is evil or all bad or anything think AI is evil or all bad or anything like that but I I think we really could like that but I I think we really could like that but I I think we really could be looking at like like 60 years from be looking at like like 60 years from be looking at like like 60 years from now we're going to be looking back and now we're going to be looking back and now we're going to be looking back and we're going to be talking about AI the we're going to be talking about AI the we're going to be talking about AI the way that we talk about nicotine and way that we talk about nicotine and way that we talk about nicotine and tobacco. I'm letting that sink in. When tobacco. I'm letting that sink in. When tobacco. I'm letting that sink in. When I think about the algorithm being the I think about the algorithm being the I think about the algorithm being the thing that shapes the brain, um the thing that shapes the brain, um the thing that shapes the brain, um the analogy that pops to mind is, you know, analogy that pops to mind is, you know, analogy that pops to mind is, you know, if I want to change a nervous system, I if I want to change a nervous system, I if I want to change a nervous system, I don't care if it's a rat, cat, monkey, don't care if it's a rat, cat, monkey, don't care if it's a rat, cat, monkey, bat, or human. bat, or human. bat, or human. >> I know what you're going to say. Yeah. >> I know what you're going to say. Yeah. >> I know what you're going to say. Yeah. >> I'm going to spike adrenaline and I'm >> I'm going to spike adrenaline and I'm >> I'm going to spike adrenaline and I'm going to provide an experience. I mean, going to provide an experience. I mean, going to provide an experience. I mean, these experiments have been done by these experiments have been done by these experiments have been done by James McGaw and and others over many James McGaw and and others over many James McGaw and and others over many years. Like I can give an animal or a years. Like I can give an animal or a years. Like I can give an animal or a person a terrifying experience, give person a terrifying experience, give person a terrifying experience, give them a beta blocker them a beta blocker them a beta blocker >> and their memory for what their memory >> and their memory for what their memory >> and their memory for what their memory for it will be will be meager if if any. for it will be will be meager if if any. for it will be will be meager if if any. If I don't, they're going to have a very If I don't, they're going to have a very If I don't, they're going to have a very salient memory. It's that one salient memory. It's that one salient memory. It's that one pointedness that you referred to. pointedness that you referred to. pointedness that you referred to. >> So spiking adrenaline is the opportunity >> So spiking adrenaline is the opportunity >> So spiking adrenaline is the opportunity to create plasticity. Turns out so is to create plasticity. Turns out so is to create plasticity. Turns out so is spiking dopamine. So is spiking spiking dopamine. So is spiking spiking dopamine. So is spiking acetylcholine. Turns out that there's acetylcholine. Turns out that there's acetylcholine. Turns out that there's this kind of um uh equality to all the this kind of um uh equality to all the this kind of um uh equality to all the neurom modulators. If you can create a neurom modulators. If you can create a neurom modulators. If you can create a high amount of arousal or a unusual high amount of arousal or a unusual high amount of arousal or a unusual state, you can modify the brain for some state, you can modify the brain for some state, you can modify the brain for some period of time. I feel like what was period of time. I feel like what was period of time. I feel like what was never thought about until recently is never thought about until recently is never thought about until recently is that when we scroll social media or we that when we scroll social media or we that when we scroll social media or we are on the internet, we're getting are on the internet, we're getting are on the internet, we're getting pulsed like you said earlier, we're pulsed like you said earlier, we're pulsed like you said earlier, we're getting pulsed with typically getting pulsed with typically getting pulsed with typically norepinephrine, epinephrine, right? And norepinephrine, epinephrine, right? And norepinephrine, epinephrine, right? And so it makes perfect sense that the so it makes perfect sense that the so it makes perfect sense that the plasticity is both for what we're plasticity is both for what we're plasticity is both for what we're observing, but also for the action of observing, but also for the action of observing, but also for the action of scrolling and going through that the the scrolling and going through that the the scrolling and going through that the the the wheel of experience that you the wheel of experience that you the wheel of experience that you described earlier, the the puppy, the described earlier, the the puppy, the described earlier, the the puppy, the the explosion, the, you know, the the explosion, the, you know, the the explosion, the, you know, the political thing, the opportunity to make political thing, the opportunity to make political thing, the opportunity to make money, the relationship thing, and then money, the relationship thing, and then money, the relationship thing, and then and then repeat. And surely the the and then repeat. And surely the the and then repeat. And surely the the platforms knew this. And I don't think platforms knew this. And I don't think platforms knew this. And I don't think they're diabolical in the sense that they're diabolical in the sense that they're diabolical in the sense that they wanted to harm humanity. I don't. I they wanted to harm humanity. I don't. I they wanted to harm humanity. I don't. I think that they are businesses and they think that they are businesses and they think that they are businesses and they wanted to make money. They want to drive wanted to make money. They want to drive wanted to make money. They want to drive engagement. engagement. engagement. >> So, so many people are don't like what I >> So, so many people are don't like what I >> So, so many people are don't like what I say about AI because they like AI say about AI because they like AI say about AI because they like AI >> and and I I'm also with you like I don't >> and and I I'm also with you like I don't >> and and I I'm also with you like I don't think the platforms are evil. I I think think the platforms are evil. I I think think the platforms are evil. I I think they're just not looking at that they're just not looking at that they're just not looking at that dimension, right? So, like no one at an dimension, right? So, like no one at an dimension, right? So, like no one at an AI company is designing a clinical trial AI company is designing a clinical trial AI company is designing a clinical trial to be run through the FDA to measure to be run through the FDA to measure to be run through the FDA to measure like they're just not measuring like they're just not measuring like they're just not measuring like safety issues as far as I know like like safety issues as far as I know like like safety issues as far as I know like not at the level that we do when we're not at the level that we do when we're not at the level that we do when we're like looking at pharmarmacology. I think like looking at pharmarmacology. I think like looking at pharmarmacology. I think these people are, you know, someone and these people are, you know, someone and these people are, you know, someone and and I I mean I've worked with so many and I I mean I've worked with so many and I I mean I've worked with so many people who like work at YouTube and and people who like work at YouTube and and people who like work at YouTube and and Meta and stuff like that, Twitch, and I Meta and stuff like that, Twitch, and I Meta and stuff like that, Twitch, and I don't think they're like bad evil don't think they're like bad evil don't think they're like bad evil people. Like this is a big this is a people. Like this is a big this is a people. Like this is a big this is a very black or white thinking induced by very black or white thinking induced by very black or white thinking induced by social media content where like all social media content where like all social media content where like all these these companies are evil or these these companies are evil or these these companies are evil or they're totally fine. No, it's like they're totally fine. No, it's like they're totally fine. No, it's like >> Well, I know some of the the founders >> Well, I know some of the the founders >> Well, I know some of the the founders and and owners of these companies and and and owners of these companies and and and owners of these companies and platforms well and I think they are platforms well and I think they are platforms well and I think they are benevolent people. benevolent people. benevolent people. >> Absolutely. And I I think a lot of >> Absolutely. And I I think a lot of >> Absolutely. And I I think a lot of times, you know, they're just like, times, you know, they're just like, times, you know, they're just like, "Okay, if I'm Instagram res and I'm like "Okay, if I'm Instagram res and I'm like "Okay, if I'm Instagram res and I'm like a a programmer, a developer there, and a a programmer, a developer there, and a a programmer, a developer there, and someone's like, "Okay, like this amount someone's like, "Okay, like this amount someone's like, "Okay, like this amount of the market share is Tik Tok, how do of the market share is Tik Tok, how do of the market share is Tik Tok, how do we bring those Tik Tok users over here?" we bring those Tik Tok users over here?" we bring those Tik Tok users over here?" Right? It's like if I have a a a car, Right? It's like if I have a a a car, Right? It's like if I have a a a car, and it's like, "How do I get someone who and it's like, "How do I get someone who and it's like, "How do I get someone who buys a different kind of car to buy my buys a different kind of car to buy my buys a different kind of car to buy my car?" That's just what business is. I I car?" That's just what business is. I I car?" That's just what business is. I I don't think they're evil. I I think what don't think they're evil. I I think what don't think they're evil. I I think what they're doing, and this is how humanity they're doing, and this is how humanity they're doing, and this is how humanity works, right? So, is like we invent works, right? So, is like we invent works, right? So, is like we invent something and then we figure out something and then we figure out something and then we figure out afterward that it's harmful. afterward that it's harmful. afterward that it's harmful. So, I don't think people should stop So, I don't think people should stop So, I don't think people should stop using AI by any means, but I think that using AI by any means, but I think that using AI by any means, but I think that the health what I'm most concerned about the health what I'm most concerned about the health what I'm most concerned about is that the health effects are a lot is that the health effects are a lot is that the health effects are a lot more causal more causal more causal >> as opposed to uncovering. I think >> as opposed to uncovering. I think >> as opposed to uncovering. I think there's like starting to be like some there's like starting to be like some there's like starting to be like some pretty startling data behind that. So pretty startling data behind that. So pretty startling data behind that. So what do you recommend for young men and what do you recommend for young men and what do you recommend for young men and women or older uh men and women around women or older uh men and women around women or older uh men and women around two things around two things around two things around social media use, AI use and we have to social media use, AI use and we have to social media use, AI use and we have to talk about pornography. talk about pornography. talk about pornography. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> So let's talk about social media use. Do >> So let's talk about social media use. Do >> So let's talk about social media use. Do you believe that people should have you believe that people should have you believe that people should have prescriptions of amount of time, types prescriptions of amount of time, types prescriptions of amount of time, types of interactions they have or won't have? of interactions they have or won't have? of interactions they have or won't have? Um I realize it's hard to create a Um I realize it's hard to create a Um I realize it's hard to create a blanket statement there. blanket statement there. blanket statement there. >> No, no, no. It's it's not that it's hard >> No, no, no. It's it's not that it's hard >> No, no, no. It's it's not that it's hard to it's that this is a whole other to it's that this is a whole other to it's that this is a whole other podcast. So like I've I've studied podcast. So like I've I've studied podcast. So like I've I've studied >> we're definitely going to have to have >> we're definitely going to have to have >> we're definitely going to have to have you back. We've got a lot of you back. We've got a lot of you back. We've got a lot of conversations. conversations. conversations. >> So there's so much nuance to this >> So there's so much nuance to this >> So there's so much nuance to this because social media is not uniform in because social media is not uniform in because social media is not uniform in the way that it affects your brain. So the way that it affects your brain. So the way that it affects your brain. So right that's the number one thing. right that's the number one thing. right that's the number one thing. >> Um so just just because all drugs of >> Um so just just because all drugs of >> Um so just just because all drugs of abuse are in some way dopamineergic does abuse are in some way dopamineergic does abuse are in some way dopamineergic does not mean that their effects are uniform not mean that their effects are uniform not mean that their effects are uniform on the brain. So first thing about use on the brain. So first thing about use on the brain. So first thing about use of social media. I think a big thing of social media. I think a big thing of social media. I think a big thing that people miss, so there's some like that people miss, so there's some like that people miss, so there's some like common stuff that's like just use it common stuff that's like just use it common stuff that's like just use it less, bro. less, bro. less, bro. What's a lot of people miss is the What's a lot of people miss is the What's a lot of people miss is the mental state that you are in when you mental state that you are in when you mental state that you are in when you use it determines a lot. use it determines a lot. use it determines a lot. >> Right? So if you are feeling bad and you >> Right? So if you are feeling bad and you >> Right? So if you are feeling bad and you use social media, you are you're primed use social media, you are you're primed use social media, you are you're primed for salance. You will be programmed for salance. You will be programmed for salance. You will be programmed more. Right? So so this is where like more. Right? So so this is where like more. Right? So so this is where like people who use it as a form of emotional people who use it as a form of emotional people who use it as a form of emotional regulation, big problem. Another regulation, big problem. Another regulation, big problem. Another interesting thing about social media, interesting thing about social media, interesting thing about social media, when to not use it. So, you know, you when to not use it. So, you know, you when to not use it. So, you know, you require a certain amount of frontal lobe require a certain amount of frontal lobe require a certain amount of frontal lobe function, executive function, and function, executive function, and function, executive function, and willpower in order to fall asleep. You willpower in order to fall asleep. You willpower in order to fall asleep. You need to be able to suppress your need to be able to suppress your need to be able to suppress your impulses in order to be able to go to impulses in order to be able to go to impulses in order to be able to go to sleep. Don't use social media before you sleep. Don't use social media before you sleep. Don't use social media before you go to bed. And the main reason for that go to bed. And the main reason for that go to bed. And the main reason for that is if you use social media to the point is if you use social media to the point is if you use social media to the point where you've missed your sleep window, where you've missed your sleep window, where you've missed your sleep window, then it's very hard to fall asleep then it's very hard to fall asleep then it's very hard to fall asleep because now your brain doesn't have because now your brain doesn't have because now your brain doesn't have enough willpower. And this is what pe enough willpower. And this is what pe enough willpower. And this is what pe what what happens to people. So there's what what happens to people. So there's what what happens to people. So there's a really interesting study about a really interesting study about a really interesting study about procrastination before bed. And what the procrastination before bed. And what the procrastination before bed. And what the study found is that there's two kinds of study found is that there's two kinds of study found is that there's two kinds of procrastination. There's before bed procrastination. There's before bed procrastination. There's before bed procrastination. Procrastinating going procrastination. Procrastinating going procrastination. Procrastinating going to bed. And then there's inbed to bed. And then there's inbed to bed. And then there's inbed procrastination when you procrastinate procrastination when you procrastinate procrastination when you procrastinate going to sleep after you're in bed. So going to sleep after you're in bed. So going to sleep after you're in bed. So don't use it when you're not feeling don't use it when you're not feeling don't use it when you're not feeling good. Don't use it before bed especially good. Don't use it before bed especially good. Don't use it before bed especially because it's going to you're going to because it's going to you're going to because it's going to you're going to miss that window and then it's going to miss that window and then it's going to miss that window and then it's going to mess you up for the next day. you'll be mess you up for the next day. you'll be mess you up for the next day. you'll be more emotionally fried, more emotionally more emotionally fried, more emotionally more emotionally fried, more emotionally vulnerable. vulnerable. vulnerable. >> An hour before bed. >> An hour before bed. >> An hour before bed. >> Yeah. Just just nowhere near bed. Um >> Yeah. Just just nowhere near bed. Um >> Yeah. Just just nowhere near bed. Um there's the blue light stuff, but I there's the blue light stuff, but I there's the blue light stuff, but I think this don't miss your your sleep think this don't miss your your sleep think this don't miss your your sleep window. That's been such a useful window. That's been such a useful window. That's been such a useful clinical revelation when I'm working clinical revelation when I'm working clinical revelation when I'm working with a human being because if you get with a human being because if you get with a human being because if you get past 10:30 and you're on your phone, past 10:30 and you're on your phone, past 10:30 and you're on your phone, then it's going to become 12:30 because then it's going to become 12:30 because then it's going to become 12:30 because you no longer have the the frontal lobe you no longer have the the frontal lobe you no longer have the the frontal lobe function to be able to stop yourself. Um function to be able to stop yourself. Um function to be able to stop yourself. Um that's the second thing. Third thing is that's the second thing. Third thing is that's the second thing. Third thing is understand that understand that understand that your your your brain is how can I say this? You are developing how can I say this? You are developing the standards the standards the standards for yourself through social media. So for yourself through social media. So for yourself through social media. So we're seeing a rise in body dysmorphia. we're seeing a rise in body dysmorphia. we're seeing a rise in body dysmorphia. So this was interesting because it used So this was interesting because it used So this was interesting because it used to be that body dysmorphia was like more to be that body dysmorphia was like more to be that body dysmorphia was like more common in women than men. We're starting common in women than men. We're starting common in women than men. We're starting to see that even out especially as we to see that even out especially as we to see that even out especially as we have all these like alpha male have all these like alpha male have all these like alpha male influencers. what you see is going to be influencers. what you see is going to be influencers. what you see is going to be your standard. your standard. your standard. >> I'll put alpha in air quotes there, >> I'll put alpha in air quotes there, >> I'll put alpha in air quotes there, >> you know. So, everyone's expectations >> you know. So, everyone's expectations >> you know. So, everyone's expectations for what they should be. So, I I went to for what they should be. So, I I went to for what they should be. So, I I went to Germany recently and I had my kids there Germany recently and I had my kids there Germany recently and I had my kids there and we went to like a like a spa and and we went to like a like a spa and and we went to like a like a spa and there were like a lot of like we went in there were like a lot of like we went in there were like a lot of like we went in the middle of the day so like we were on the middle of the day so like we were on the middle of the day so like we were on vacation but you know everybody else is vacation but you know everybody else is vacation but you know everybody else is at school and whatnot. There were a at school and whatnot. There were a at school and whatnot. There were a bunch of old German people there and bunch of old German people there and bunch of old German people there and like old German people in swimsuits are like old German people in swimsuits are like old German people in swimsuits are like not the most attractive human like not the most attractive human like not the most attractive human beings on the planet and and my kids beings on the planet and and my kids beings on the planet and and my kids were like kind of surprised because were like kind of surprised because were like kind of surprised because there's just a lot of like German people there's just a lot of like German people there's just a lot of like German people who are old. But I I like this is what who are old. But I I like this is what who are old. But I I like this is what normal people look like and we've normal people look like and we've normal people look like and we've forgotten what normal people look like. forgotten what normal people look like. forgotten what normal people look like. We've forgotten what normal is and the We've forgotten what normal is and the We've forgotten what normal is and the more time that you spend on social media more time that you spend on social media more time that you spend on social media the more you will be divorced from the more you will be divorced from the more you will be divorced from normal. So I'd say those are like the normal. So I'd say those are like the normal. So I'd say those are like the three things. And sure if you want to three things. And sure if you want to three things. And sure if you want to use it less like use it less. the less use it less like use it less. the less use it less like use it less. the less you use it, the better off you're going you use it, the better off you're going you use it, the better off you're going to be. But I'm sure everyone has said to be. But I'm sure everyone has said to be. But I'm sure everyone has said that a thousand times. I think what that a thousand times. I think what that a thousand times. I think what people don't realize is that the impact people don't realize is that the impact people don't realize is that the impact of it is not always uniform. That your of it is not always uniform. That your of it is not always uniform. That your psychological vulnerabilities, and psychological vulnerabilities, and psychological vulnerabilities, and people know this, if you've ever stalked people know this, if you've ever stalked people know this, if you've ever stalked your ex on after they get together with your ex on after they get together with your ex on after they get together with somebody else, like people know what I somebody else, like people know what I somebody else, like people know what I mean, right? Like you like your ex is mean, right? Like you like your ex is mean, right? Like you like your ex is now dating someone else and then you now dating someone else and then you now dating someone else and then you look at their pictures and you like look look at their pictures and you like look look at their pictures and you like look at all their pictures and you make at all their pictures and you make at all their pictures and you make yourself like kind of feel worse. Don't yourself like kind of feel worse. Don't yourself like kind of feel worse. Don't use it when you're vulnerable. That's use it when you're vulnerable. That's use it when you're vulnerable. That's huge. I realize that my statement about, huge. I realize that my statement about, huge. I realize that my statement about, you know, alpha males in air quotes, I you know, alpha males in air quotes, I you know, alpha males in air quotes, I want to be very specific. Um, not to want to be very specific. Um, not to want to be very specific. Um, not to protect feelings at all because no one protect feelings at all because no one protect feelings at all because no one I'm about to talk about needs protection I'm about to talk about needs protection I'm about to talk about needs protection for their feelings, but I think there for their feelings, but I think there for their feelings, but I think there are some incredible male educators and are some incredible male educators and are some incredible male educators and examples online, uh, you know, of people examples online, uh, you know, of people examples online, uh, you know, of people who are showing up in different aspects who are showing up in different aspects who are showing up in different aspects of their life in really spectacular of their life in really spectacular of their life in really spectacular ways. I mean, good friend Jako Willing, ways. I mean, good friend Jako Willing, ways. I mean, good friend Jako Willing, for instance, right? I think, uh, he has for instance, right? I think, uh, he has for instance, right? I think, uh, he has a ton to offer. my friend Ken Ride out a ton to offer. my friend Ken Ride out a ton to offer. my friend Ken Ride out has a ton to offer. You know, um there has a ton to offer. You know, um there has a ton to offer. You know, um there are many many great examples when the are many many great examples when the are many many great examples when the people I was referring to in air quotes people I was referring to in air quotes people I was referring to in air quotes or the uh was in reference to this kind or the uh was in reference to this kind or the uh was in reference to this kind of newer trend of looks maxing as as it of newer trend of looks maxing as as it of newer trend of looks maxing as as it relates to what you're talking about relates to what you're talking about relates to what you're talking about about this, you know, over obsession in about this, you know, over obsession in about this, you know, over obsession in my opinion on on looks and on um my opinion on on looks and on um my opinion on on looks and on um cosmetic perfection. Uh which I do think cosmetic perfection. Uh which I do think cosmetic perfection. Uh which I do think is going to be if it's not already very is going to be if it's not already very is going to be if it's not already very hazardous for young men. the feeling hazardous for young men. the feeling hazardous for young men. the feeling that even just um the idea that that even just um the idea that that even just um the idea that variation in looks is is being variation in looks is is being variation in looks is is being discouraged that there's sort of this discouraged that there's sort of this discouraged that there's sort of this need for everyone to look the same is so need for everyone to look the same is so need for everyone to look the same is so very different than how I grew up very different than how I grew up very different than how I grew up >> where uh I've feel very fortunate that >> where uh I've feel very fortunate that >> where uh I've feel very fortunate that there was you know kind of a range of there was you know kind of a range of there was you know kind of a range of different appearances um within the different appearances um within the different appearances um within the scope of healthy that uh that defined scope of healthy that uh that defined scope of healthy that uh that defined people's unique characteristics and now people's unique characteristics and now people's unique characteristics and now this looks maxing thing seems to be all this looks maxing thing seems to be all this looks maxing thing seems to be all about everyone having like this angle of about everyone having like this angle of about everyone having like this angle of jaw this cheekbone thing, this type of jaw this cheekbone thing, this type of jaw this cheekbone thing, this type of skin, this type and and that's the part skin, this type and and that's the part skin, this type and and that's the part where I go like, "Hey guys, like please where I go like, "Hey guys, like please where I go like, "Hey guys, like please don't waste your life. Like this is don't waste your life. Like this is don't waste your life. Like this is going to this is a fool's erand. It's going to this is a fool's erand. It's going to this is a fool's erand. It's going to destroy them." going to destroy them." going to destroy them." >> Here's what's really scary. So like I'm >> Here's what's really scary. So like I'm >> Here's what's really scary. So like I'm not a couple's therapist, but I just not a couple's therapist, but I just not a couple's therapist, but I just made a guide to relationships because made a guide to relationships because made a guide to relationships because everyone in my community is struggling everyone in my community is struggling everyone in my community is struggling with loneliness. And here's the really with loneliness. And here's the really with loneliness. And here's the really scary thing. If you look at the scary thing. If you look at the scary thing. If you look at the research, looks are not that important research, looks are not that important research, looks are not that important for a relationship. So if you there's for a relationship. So if you there's for a relationship. So if you there's some really fascinating studies on some really fascinating studies on some really fascinating studies on charisma. So looks are number six on if charisma. So looks are number six on if charisma. So looks are number six on if you do a multivariate regression you do a multivariate regression you do a multivariate regression analysis actually I don't think it was analysis actually I don't think it was analysis actually I don't think it was multivariate but if if you if you look multivariate but if if you if you look multivariate but if if you if you look at the factors of charisma looks is at the factors of charisma looks is at the factors of charisma looks is number six and and if you look at like number six and and if you look at like number six and and if you look at like the most charismatic people on the the most charismatic people on the the most charismatic people on the planet like no offense but like you know planet like no offense but like you know planet like no offense but like you know Winston Churchill amazingly charismatic Winston Churchill amazingly charismatic Winston Churchill amazingly charismatic not the most looks maxing guy out there not the most looks maxing guy out there not the most looks maxing guy out there you know you know you know >> right >> right >> right >> and so I think the really scary thing is >> and so I think the really scary thing is >> and so I think the really scary thing is that a lot of this like information on that a lot of this like information on that a lot of this like information on social media is just wrong it's not social media is just wrong it's not social media is just wrong it's not based in science at all. Like what we based in science at all. Like what we based in science at all. Like what we talked about with flirting, people don't talked about with flirting, people don't talked about with flirting, people don't realize if if you're flirting with realize if if you're flirting with realize if if you're flirting with someone and they don't get it, that's someone and they don't get it, that's someone and they don't get it, that's actually fine. That's why you have to actually fine. That's why you have to actually fine. That's why you have to make three attempts to flirt with make three attempts to flirt with make three attempts to flirt with someone statistically and then you someone statistically and then you someone statistically and then you should level up like escalate the signal should level up like escalate the signal should level up like escalate the signal that you're transmitting. Another really that you're transmitting. Another really that you're transmitting. Another really interesting data point because I'm interesting data point because I'm interesting data point because I'm excited about this, but um women who are excited about this, but um women who are excited about this, but um women who are of average attractiveness and high of average attractiveness and high of average attractiveness and high signaling are more likely to end up in a signaling are more likely to end up in a signaling are more likely to end up in a relationship and be approached than relationship and be approached than relationship and be approached than women who are very high attractiveness women who are very high attractiveness women who are very high attractiveness and low signaling. and low signaling. and low signaling. >> Uh could you define signaling? >> Uh could you define signaling? >> Uh could you define signaling? >> Yeah. Making it known that you're open >> Yeah. Making it known that you're open >> Yeah. Making it known that you're open for a relationship, eye contact, for a relationship, eye contact, for a relationship, eye contact, smiling. So this is what people don't smiling. So this is what people don't smiling. So this is what people don't understand is like they think like, understand is like they think like, understand is like they think like, okay, if I'm hot, things will happen. okay, if I'm hot, things will happen. okay, if I'm hot, things will happen. That's not how it works at all. There's That's not how it works at all. There's That's not how it works at all. There's a lot about how to flirt, how to a lot about how to flirt, how to a lot about how to flirt, how to communicate interest, how to be communicate interest, how to be communicate interest, how to be embarrassed, and all of these things are embarrassed, and all of these things are embarrassed, and all of these things are like positive things that people don't like positive things that people don't like positive things that people don't understand. That charisma is about understand. That charisma is about understand. That charisma is about having vision. Because if you're looking having vision. Because if you're looking having vision. Because if you're looking for a long-term partner and they're for a long-term partner and they're for a long-term partner and they're trying to figure out, can I be with this trying to figure out, can I be with this trying to figure out, can I be with this person? They have to have a sense of person? They have to have a sense of person? They have to have a sense of your vision of life to see if they fit your vision of life to see if they fit your vision of life to see if they fit with you. That's actually way more with you. That's actually way more with you. That's actually way more important than looks. The ability to uh important than looks. The ability to uh important than looks. The ability to uh uh handle adversity, huge element of uh handle adversity, huge element of uh handle adversity, huge element of charisma. charisma. charisma. So someone wants to know if stuff goes So someone wants to know if stuff goes So someone wants to know if stuff goes south, can I count on you? Way more south, can I count on you? Way more south, can I count on you? Way more important than looks. So the only thing important than looks. So the only thing important than looks. So the only thing with looks is that in online dating with looks is that in online dating with looks is that in online dating specifically, people will judge based on specifically, people will judge based on specifically, people will judge based on looks. But there are m numerous studies looks. But there are m numerous studies looks. But there are m numerous studies that show, not numerous actually, one that show, not numerous actually, one that show, not numerous actually, one study at least that I've seen that shows study at least that I've seen that shows study at least that I've seen that shows that if your profile indicates purpose, that if your profile indicates purpose, that if your profile indicates purpose, man or woman, it increases your man or woman, it increases your man or woman, it increases your attractiveness. So the problem with all attractiveness. So the problem with all attractiveness. So the problem with all this social media stuff is not that it's this social media stuff is not that it's this social media stuff is not that it's wrong. wrong. wrong. I work with a lot of incelss. I work I work with a lot of incelss. I work I work with a lot of incelss. I work with a lot of beta males. It's not that with a lot of beta males. It's not that with a lot of beta males. It's not that they're wrong. It's that they're they're wrong. It's that they're they're wrong. It's that they're woefully incomplete. They haven't done a woefully incomplete. They haven't done a woefully incomplete. They haven't done a study of the whole literature. Sure, if study of the whole literature. Sure, if study of the whole literature. Sure, if you're more attractive, it is easier to you're more attractive, it is easier to you're more attractive, it is easier to get dates. Here's the scariest get dates. Here's the scariest get dates. Here's the scariest statistic. statistic. statistic. Drive for muscularity is inversely Drive for muscularity is inversely Drive for muscularity is inversely correlated with length of relationship. correlated with length of relationship. correlated with length of relationship. Right? So, the more that if you're Right? So, the more that if you're Right? So, the more that if you're watching social media and you're like, I watching social media and you're like, I watching social media and you're like, I need to be pumped. I want to be pumped. need to be pumped. I want to be pumped. need to be pumped. I want to be pumped. I want to be pumped. I want to be I want to be pumped. I want to be I want to be pumped. I want to be pumped. That's what pumped. That's what pumped. That's what drives people away. It's hard to have a drives people away. It's hard to have a drives people away. It's hard to have a relationship with with that kind of relationship with with that kind of relationship with with that kind of person. So, by all means, get muscular, person. So, by all means, get muscular, person. So, by all means, get muscular, but want it less, which is really but want it less, which is really but want it less, which is really interesting because what I see is people interesting because what I see is people interesting because what I see is people wanting it more like looks maxing. I wanting it more like looks maxing. I wanting it more like looks maxing. I want this. I want this. I want this. want this. I want this. I want this. want this. I want this. I want this. >> So, depp prioritize it. >> So, depp prioritize it. >> So, depp prioritize it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's so interesting. I mean the >> Yeah. It's so interesting. I mean the >> Yeah. It's so interesting. I mean the the drive and vision thing is um and the drive and vision thing is um and the drive and vision thing is um and purpose thing is is so interesting purpose thing is is so interesting purpose thing is is so interesting because uh you know this is one thing because uh you know this is one thing because uh you know this is one thing where I'm not saying everyone should go where I'm not saying everyone should go where I'm not saying everyone should go into science but in science you you you into science but in science you you you into science but in science you you you apprentice yourself to somebody else and apprentice yourself to somebody else and apprentice yourself to somebody else and then to somebody else as a postoc and then to somebody else as a postoc and then to somebody else as a postoc and then eventually whether or not you get then eventually whether or not you get then eventually whether or not you get to succeed or not as an independent to succeed or not as an independent to succeed or not as an independent scientist is entirely based not on what scientist is entirely based not on what scientist is entirely based not on what you did that's just proof of an ability you did that's just proof of an ability you did that's just proof of an ability right it's based on your vision like is right it's based on your vision like is right it's based on your vision like is there something exciting and that's what there something exciting and that's what there something exciting and that's what that's what we joke in in science like that's what we joke in in science like that's what we joke in in science like every year there's a prom prom king and every year there's a prom prom king and every year there's a prom prom king and a prom queen on the shop on the job a prom queen on the shop on the job a prom queen on the shop on the job market and it's the person who has the market and it's the person who has the market and it's the person who has the most interesting and compelling vision. most interesting and compelling vision. most interesting and compelling vision. That's who you're hiring and yes, they That's who you're hiring and yes, they That's who you're hiring and yes, they tend to have been successful in the tend to have been successful in the tend to have been successful in the past. You need that, but that's past. You need that, but that's past. You need that, but that's necessary but not sufficient. It's so necessary but not sufficient. It's so necessary but not sufficient. It's so important that that you're raising this. important that that you're raising this. important that that you're raising this. Do you think that young men are indeed Do you think that young men are indeed Do you think that young men are indeed falling behind in terms of We hear this falling behind in terms of We hear this falling behind in terms of We hear this all the time that they're falling behind all the time that they're falling behind all the time that they're falling behind their age match peers that are women in their age match peers that are women in their age match peers that are women in terms of just sort of life progression? terms of just sort of life progression? terms of just sort of life progression? >> Oh, absolutely. I mean there's no I I >> Oh, absolutely. I mean there's no I I >> Oh, absolutely. I mean there's no I I think there's no question of that. So I think there's no question of that. So I think there's no question of that. So I I forget if it was 41% of college I forget if it was 41% of college I forget if it was 41% of college graduates are are men now. Um so so I I graduates are are men now. Um so so I I graduates are are men now. Um so so I I think like the it it's really lopsided. think like the it it's really lopsided. think like the it it's really lopsided. I think in 1975 the average age of I think in 1975 the average age of I think in 1975 the average age of marriage for a man was 23.8 marriage for a man was 23.8 marriage for a man was 23.8 and now it's 30.8. and now it's 30.8. and now it's 30.8. It's not average median. So half of the It's not average median. So half of the It's not average median. So half of the people are actually older than that. for people are actually older than that. for people are actually older than that. for women it was 21.1 to 28.4. women it was 21.1 to 28.4. women it was 21.1 to 28.4. >> People will make um financial arguments >> People will make um financial arguments >> People will make um financial arguments around that. I I see that a lot. People around that. I I see that a lot. People around that. I I see that a lot. People will say, "Well, it's very expensive to, will say, "Well, it's very expensive to, will say, "Well, it's very expensive to, you know, to be able to raise a family, you know, to be able to raise a family, you know, to be able to raise a family, etc." That's that's often what you hear, etc." That's that's often what you hear, etc." That's that's often what you hear, at least in California. People say that at least in California. People say that at least in California. People say that they're waiting because they need to they're waiting because they need to they're waiting because they need to establish a certain level of income. Is establish a certain level of income. Is establish a certain level of income. Is that is that true? that is that true? that is that true? >> Sure. I I mean, I think that's what >> Sure. I I mean, I think that's what >> Sure. I I mean, I think that's what people are subjectively feeling. 50% of people are subjectively feeling. 50% of people are subjectively feeling. 50% of people under the age of adults under the people under the age of adults under the people under the age of adults under the age of 30 live with their parents now. I age of 30 live with their parents now. I age of 30 live with their parents now. I forget what the the statistic used to be forget what the the statistic used to be forget what the the statistic used to be like 20 years ago. So we are absolutely like 20 years ago. So we are absolutely like 20 years ago. So we are absolutely seeing like economic difficulties. So seeing like economic difficulties. So seeing like economic difficulties. So every everything is slowing down right every everything is slowing down right every everything is slowing down right that and but I I think that there is the that and but I I think that there is the that and but I I think that there is the biggest difference is as a society men biggest difference is as a society men biggest difference is as a society men are the one group of people that we are the one group of people that we are the one group of people that we expect to help themselves. expect to help themselves. expect to help themselves. So if you look at like and and there's So if you look at like and and there's So if you look at like and and there's like like I'm not I'm not saying women like like I'm not I'm not saying women like like I'm not I'm not saying women don't deserve help. So, you know, don't deserve help. So, you know, don't deserve help. So, you know, there's some examples of this that I there's some examples of this that I there's some examples of this that I think are not great. So, there are think are not great. So, there are think are not great. So, there are homeless shelters for every gender and homeless shelters for every gender and homeless shelters for every gender and then there are homeless shelters for then there are homeless shelters for then there are homeless shelters for women. There only there are no male only women. There only there are no male only women. There only there are no male only homeless shelters. I think that's a good homeless shelters. I think that's a good homeless shelters. I think that's a good example of you don't need a male only example of you don't need a male only example of you don't need a male only homeless shelter because that's an homeless shelter because that's an homeless shelter because that's an example of like women who are in every example of like women who are in every example of like women who are in every all gender homeless shelters are really all gender homeless shelters are really all gender homeless shelters are really way more unsafe than if they're on their way more unsafe than if they're on their way more unsafe than if they're on their own. So, like that's an example of like own. So, like that's an example of like own. So, like that's an example of like I don't think everything should be equal I don't think everything should be equal I don't think everything should be equal between all genders. But I think the between all genders. But I think the between all genders. But I think the challenge is that you know if you just challenge is that you know if you just challenge is that you know if you just talk to men or if you talk about men talk to men or if you talk about men talk to men or if you talk about men there are many things that will say okay there are many things that will say okay there are many things that will say okay like the patriarchy is harmful to both like the patriarchy is harmful to both like the patriarchy is harmful to both men and women fair enough but like what men and women fair enough but like what men and women fair enough but like what are we going to do society systemically are we going to do society systemically are we going to do society systemically to support the men who are struggling. to support the men who are struggling. to support the men who are struggling. So there aren't even though only 41% of So there aren't even though only 41% of So there aren't even though only 41% of people who graduate from college are men people who graduate from college are men people who graduate from college are men there the number of male only there the number of male only there the number of male only scholarships is like really small. So as scholarships is like really small. So as scholarships is like really small. So as a society it's really interesting. I a society it's really interesting. I a society it's really interesting. I think we're we're not really supporting think we're we're not really supporting think we're we're not really supporting men in the way that we need to. Now, a men in the way that we need to. Now, a men in the way that we need to. Now, a lot of people will hear this as, "Oh, it lot of people will hear this as, "Oh, it lot of people will hear this as, "Oh, it is my responsibility as a woman to do is my responsibility as a woman to do is my responsibility as a woman to do things for for my husband or boyfriend things for for my husband or boyfriend things for for my husband or boyfriend or whatever." I don't think it's like or whatever." I don't think it's like or whatever." I don't think it's like women's responsibility. I think that's a women's responsibility. I think that's a women's responsibility. I think that's a big problem historically that women have big problem historically that women have big problem historically that women have been responsible for certain aspects of been responsible for certain aspects of been responsible for certain aspects of men. I I think the work that I do and men. I I think the work that I do and men. I I think the work that I do and the work you do, the work we do is to the work you do, the work we do is to the work you do, the work we do is to try to help men, women, and everybody try to help men, women, and everybody try to help men, women, and everybody else take care of themselves. else take care of themselves. else take care of themselves. But I I do think there's there's plenty But I I do think there's there's plenty But I I do think there's there's plenty of data that suggests that, of data that suggests that, of data that suggests that, you know, men are falling behind. If you you know, men are falling behind. If you you know, men are falling behind. If you look at rates of addiction, um deaths of look at rates of addiction, um deaths of look at rates of addiction, um deaths of despair, this is a really interesting uh despair, this is a really interesting uh despair, this is a really interesting uh scientific measure that came a lot out scientific measure that came a lot out scientific measure that came a lot out of the UK. These are basically deaths of the UK. These are basically deaths of the UK. These are basically deaths that relate to suicide. You know, male that relate to suicide. You know, male that relate to suicide. You know, male suicide rates are four times what women suicide rates are four times what women suicide rates are four times what women what they are for women. So, it's what they are for women. So, it's what they are for women. So, it's interesting like now hopefully this is interesting like now hopefully this is interesting like now hopefully this is changing, but when I was in residency, changing, but when I was in residency, changing, but when I was in residency, you know, we had women's mental health you know, we had women's mental health you know, we had women's mental health clinics. We didn't have male mental clinics. We didn't have male mental clinics. We didn't have male mental health clinics. health clinics. health clinics. >> Do men in relationships um >> Do men in relationships um >> Do men in relationships um you know, are they protected from some you know, are they protected from some you know, are they protected from some of the negative effects that you're of the negative effects that you're of the negative effects that you're describing? describing? describing? >> Oh, this is fascinating. So, do you know >> Oh, this is fascinating. So, do you know >> Oh, this is fascinating. So, do you know what takatubo cardiomyopathy is? Have what takatubo cardiomyopathy is? Have what takatubo cardiomyopathy is? Have you heard of this? you heard of this? you heard of this? >> This is when people die of a broken >> This is when people die of a broken >> This is when people die of a broken heart. heart. heart. >> Yeah. So, this is what's really >> Yeah. So, this is what's really >> Yeah. So, this is what's really fascinating. People don't realize this, fascinating. People don't realize this, fascinating. People don't realize this, but women are far more likely to but women are far more likely to but women are far more likely to initiate divorce. So, I think the the initiate divorce. So, I think the the initiate divorce. So, I think the the interesting statistic about this is you interesting statistic about this is you interesting statistic about this is you can look at gay couples. Um, so gay men can look at gay couples. Um, so gay men can look at gay couples. Um, so gay men who get married have less than a 50% who get married have less than a 50% who get married have less than a 50% divorce rate. I I think they they get divorce rate. I I think they they get divorce rate. I I think they they get divorced maybe 30% of the time. Lesbian divorced maybe 30% of the time. Lesbian divorced maybe 30% of the time. Lesbian couples have the highest divorce rate. couples have the highest divorce rate. couples have the highest divorce rate. So, they get divorced, I think, So, they get divorced, I think, So, they get divorced, I think, something like 60% of the time. So, it's something like 60% of the time. So, it's something like 60% of the time. So, it's even greater than 50%. even greater than 50%. even greater than 50%. So, I did a lot of work on this because So, I did a lot of work on this because So, I did a lot of work on this because I I've had so many patients who when I I've had so many patients who when I I've had so many patients who when they go through a breakup, like it they go through a breakup, like it they go through a breakup, like it really ruins their life. And there's really ruins their life. And there's really ruins their life. And there's research on this, okay? I'm not like research on this, okay? I'm not like research on this, okay? I'm not like misogynist or anything like that. So, if misogynist or anything like that. So, if misogynist or anything like that. So, if you look at qualitative research, if you you look at qualitative research, if you you look at qualitative research, if you ask a woman after she goes through a ask a woman after she goes through a ask a woman after she goes through a divorce, what did you lose? She will divorce, what did you lose? She will divorce, what did you lose? She will say, I lost a relationship. If you ask a say, I lost a relationship. If you ask a say, I lost a relationship. If you ask a man, what did you lose? They say I I man, what did you lose? They say I I man, what did you lose? They say I I lost a life. So, this is just it's just lost a life. So, this is just it's just lost a life. So, this is just it's just different. So women will often times different. So women will often times different. So women will often times form many connections. So when they lose form many connections. So when they lose form many connections. So when they lose their relationship, they lose a a their relationship, they lose a a their relationship, they lose a a relationship. relationship. relationship. But men are by some amount of biology, But men are by some amount of biology, But men are by some amount of biology, by some amount of conditioning, by some by some amount of conditioning, by some by some amount of conditioning, by some amount of culture often times will have amount of culture often times will have amount of culture often times will have one emotional support in in their life, one emotional support in in their life, one emotional support in in their life, which is their wife. And I've worked which is their wife. And I've worked which is their wife. And I've worked with plenty of women for whom this is with plenty of women for whom this is with plenty of women for whom this is overwhelming because they become their overwhelming because they become their overwhelming because they become their husband's therapist because their husband's therapist because their husband's therapist because their husband doesn't know how to manage their husband doesn't know how to manage their husband doesn't know how to manage their own emotions. That's not good. That's own emotions. That's not good. That's own emotions. That's not good. That's not healthy. But if we're looking at not healthy. But if we're looking at not healthy. But if we're looking at outcomes, outcomes, outcomes, the cortisol spike that men get after the cortisol spike that men get after the cortisol spike that men get after divorce is way higher. The amount of divorce is way higher. The amount of divorce is way higher. The amount of inflammation that they experience is way inflammation that they experience is way inflammation that they experience is way higher. Um I think they have an acute higher. Um I think they have an acute higher. Um I think they have an acute risk of heart attack that elevates. So risk of heart attack that elevates. So risk of heart attack that elevates. So some of this is probably biology. We're some of this is probably biology. We're some of this is probably biology. We're we're just wired differently. Like this we're just wired differently. Like this we're just wired differently. Like this is also another thing that's really is also another thing that's really is also another thing that's really interesting. Um the inflammatory interesting. Um the inflammatory interesting. Um the inflammatory response from a cold is greater in men response from a cold is greater in men response from a cold is greater in men than it is in women. So like when my than it is in women. So like when my than it is in women. So like when my wife gets sick, she's able to do stuff, wife gets sick, she's able to do stuff, wife gets sick, she's able to do stuff, but like my inflammatory response is but like my inflammatory response is but like my inflammatory response is actually like I'm out. And there's a lot actually like I'm out. And there's a lot actually like I'm out. And there's a lot of physiological evidence for why that of physiological evidence for why that of physiological evidence for why that is. And it may have something to do with is. And it may have something to do with is. And it may have something to do with if you sort of look at like in the if you sort of look at like in the if you sort of look at like in the animal kingdom, you know, a male lion is animal kingdom, you know, a male lion is animal kingdom, you know, a male lion is much more likely to fight by baboons, much more likely to fight by baboons, much more likely to fight by baboons, much more likely to get scratches and much more likely to get scratches and much more likely to get scratches and things like that. So we need a more things like that. So we need a more things like that. So we need a more robust uh um immune system. So we want a robust uh um immune system. So we want a robust uh um immune system. So we want a stronger immune response. But yeah, stronger immune response. But yeah, stronger immune response. But yeah, takatuboard cardiomyopathy. I mean the takatuboard cardiomyopathy. I mean the takatuboard cardiomyopathy. I mean the the mortality risk of divorce for a man the mortality risk of divorce for a man the mortality risk of divorce for a man is way higher than a woman. is way higher than a woman. is way higher than a woman. >> It's interesting because um and these >> It's interesting because um and these >> It's interesting because um and these are individual cases but um not are individual cases but um not are individual cases but um not population studies but I've had a lot of population studies but I've had a lot of population studies but I've had a lot of young men in and their parents uh reach young men in and their parents uh reach young men in and their parents uh reach out to me like my kid is really out to me like my kid is really out to me like my kid is really struggling. he uh you know he's really struggling. he uh you know he's really struggling. he uh you know he's really languishing and he's really falling languishing and he's really falling languishing and he's really falling behind you know he's got these issues behind you know he's got these issues behind you know he's got these issues that that issues um uh there are all that that issues um uh there are all that that issues um uh there are all these like loose correlations that I'll these like loose correlations that I'll these like loose correlations that I'll just throw out there I often hear and just throw out there I often hear and just throw out there I often hear and I'm not saying this is the cause but I'm not saying this is the cause but I'm not saying this is the cause but I'll hear oh yeah you know and even I'll hear oh yeah you know and even I'll hear oh yeah you know and even their moms will know sometimes they'll their moms will know sometimes they'll their moms will know sometimes they'll say you know he's he's had some like say you know he's he's had some like say you know he's he's had some like really serious sexual side effects he really serious sexual side effects he really serious sexual side effects he was using these uh anti-hair loss meds I was using these uh anti-hair loss meds I was using these uh anti-hair loss meds I wonder is it that they always want to wonder is it that they always want to wonder is it that they always want to find like what's the one thing that can find like what's the one thing that can find like what's the one thing that can put them back on track and I'm not a put them back on track and I'm not a put them back on track and I'm not a psychiatrist So, I've talked to them psychiatrist So, I've talked to them psychiatrist So, I've talked to them before and often times we'll get a sense before and often times we'll get a sense before and often times we'll get a sense of what's going on more generally. And I of what's going on more generally. And I of what's going on more generally. And I actually have noticed that a number of actually have noticed that a number of actually have noticed that a number of these guys have relationships. They're these guys have relationships. They're these guys have relationships. They're very close with their girlfriend. They very close with their girlfriend. They very close with their girlfriend. They have very kind, loving, supportive have very kind, loving, supportive have very kind, loving, supportive girlfriends. And the girlfriends are girlfriends. And the girlfriends are girlfriends. And the girlfriends are doing well in life. They're moving doing well in life. They're moving doing well in life. They're moving forward professionally, but the guy forward professionally, but the guy forward professionally, but the guy isn't. He's sort of stuck. And that was isn't. He's sort of stuck. And that was isn't. He's sort of stuck. And that was a surprise to me. I thought they would a surprise to me. I thought they would a surprise to me. I thought they would be totally alone. they'd have no access be totally alone. they'd have no access be totally alone. they'd have no access to to, you know, dating or mates. No, to to, you know, dating or mates. No, to to, you know, dating or mates. No, that's not what's happening in in many that's not what's happening in in many that's not what's happening in in many cases. They're just they're sort of just cases. They're just they're sort of just cases. They're just they're sort of just stuck. They can't seem to find a stuck. They can't seem to find a stuck. They can't seem to find a profession. They can't seem to get profession. They can't seem to get profession. They can't seem to get ahead. They're and and they've got these ahead. They're and and they've got these ahead. They're and and they've got these very kind, very, very patient very kind, very, very patient very kind, very, very patient girlfriends that are sitting it out with girlfriends that are sitting it out with girlfriends that are sitting it out with them for I don't know how long. Uh I them for I don't know how long. Uh I them for I don't know how long. Uh I don't know if they'll stick around, but don't know if they'll stick around, but don't know if they'll stick around, but that seems more and more common. So they that seems more and more common. So they that seems more and more common. So they can find the relationship but they can't can find the relationship but they can't can find the relationship but they can't seem to launch into into being a grown seem to launch into into being a grown seem to launch into into being a grown man frankly. man frankly. man frankly. >> Yeah. So I I think um first of all that >> Yeah. So I I think um first of all that >> Yeah. So I I think um first of all that was me. So uh you know when I it took me was me. So uh you know when I it took me was me. So uh you know when I it took me 5 and a half years to graduate from 5 and a half years to graduate from 5 and a half years to graduate from college. I graduated with a 2.4 GPA and college. I graduated with a 2.4 GPA and college. I graduated with a 2.4 GPA and then I started med school at 28. I then I started med school at 28. I then I started med school at 28. I couldn't support myself financially couldn't support myself financially couldn't support myself financially until I started residency at the age of until I started residency at the age of until I started residency at the age of 32. 32. 32. My wife started working at 16 and has My wife started working at 16 and has My wife started working at 16 and has never stopped. And so there was a period never stopped. And so there was a period never stopped. And so there was a period of like five years where like what was I of like five years where like what was I of like five years where like what was I doing? I had a research assistant doing? I had a research assistant doing? I had a research assistant position at Harvard, but I was basically position at Harvard, but I was basically position at Harvard, but I was basically applying to medical school. And so like applying to medical school. And so like applying to medical school. And so like I was going nowhere real fast and she I was going nowhere real fast and she I was going nowhere real fast and she stuck it out with me, which is quite stuck it out with me, which is quite stuck it out with me, which is quite amazing. Like I'm I'm still surprised by amazing. Like I'm I'm still surprised by amazing. Like I'm I'm still surprised by her and her lack of pressure and also her and her lack of pressure and also her and her lack of pressure and also her like supreme confidence that I was her like supreme confidence that I was her like supreme confidence that I was going to figure it out. Um so I've been going to figure it out. Um so I've been going to figure it out. Um so I've been in in in those shoes and I I think the in in in those shoes and I I think the in in in those shoes and I I think the big thing for me was I figured out how I big thing for me was I figured out how I big thing for me was I figured out how I worked and so you know we we had this worked and so you know we we had this worked and so you know we we had this picture failure to launch which is a lot picture failure to launch which is a lot picture failure to launch which is a lot of what I deal with. These are gifted of what I deal with. These are gifted of what I deal with. These are gifted kids who then hit a wall like I did. So kids who then hit a wall like I did. So kids who then hit a wall like I did. So had a lot of potential just never really had a lot of potential just never really had a lot of potential just never really comes to it. They struggle a lot with comes to it. They struggle a lot with comes to it. They struggle a lot with things like discipline, motivation. I I things like discipline, motivation. I I things like discipline, motivation. I I think often times they will look for think often times they will look for think often times they will look for some kind of solution, right? Because we some kind of solution, right? Because we some kind of solution, right? Because we as human beings, we don't realize that as human beings, we don't realize that as human beings, we don't realize that most of life is multiffactorial that if most of life is multiffactorial that if most of life is multiffactorial that if you do a multivariate regression you do a multivariate regression you do a multivariate regression analysis, you're not going to find that analysis, you're not going to find that analysis, you're not going to find that it was the hair loss meds. A and so this it was the hair loss meds. A and so this it was the hair loss meds. A and so this is where we kind of come back to the is where we kind of come back to the is where we kind of come back to the road map where I I think the most road map where I I think the most road map where I I think the most important thing and I I I've I've helped important thing and I I I've I've helped important thing and I I I've I've helped anywhere between hundreds to millions anywhere between hundreds to millions anywhere between hundreds to millions whether you consider YouTube or not. whether you consider YouTube or not. whether you consider YouTube or not. And the main thing is they don't know And the main thing is they don't know And the main thing is they don't know how they work. See men are not taught to how they work. See men are not taught to how they work. See men are not taught to understand. They're taught to do. understand. They're taught to do. understand. They're taught to do. like we we're like you know do this like we we're like you know do this like we we're like you know do this thing like get a job do this and and thing like get a job do this and and thing like get a job do this and and women have all kinds of expectations women have all kinds of expectations women have all kinds of expectations have babies um and work and do have babies um and work and do have babies um and work and do everything all you know exceptionally everything all you know exceptionally everything all you know exceptionally well but but I I I think we're just not well but but I I I think we're just not well but but I I I think we're just not taught how to understand ourselves. So taught how to understand ourselves. So taught how to understand ourselves. So the biggest thing that I see is not a the biggest thing that I see is not a the biggest thing that I see is not a problem of treatment but is a problem of problem of treatment but is a problem of problem of treatment but is a problem of misdiagnosis. misdiagnosis. misdiagnosis. And one of the things that you learn, I And one of the things that you learn, I And one of the things that you learn, I think people don't really realize this, think people don't really realize this, think people don't really realize this, but like most of medicine is not but like most of medicine is not but like most of medicine is not treatment. Like I don't think treatment treatment. Like I don't think treatment treatment. Like I don't think treatment is usually the hard part. I think the is usually the hard part. I think the is usually the hard part. I think the diagnosis is the hard part. diagnosis is the hard part. diagnosis is the hard part. Understanding really what's wrong. Uh Understanding really what's wrong. Uh Understanding really what's wrong. Uh just as another example of this, I've just as another example of this, I've just as another example of this, I've worked with so many people, young men, worked with so many people, young men, worked with so many people, young men, who are like, I'm so tired. How do I who are like, I'm so tired. How do I who are like, I'm so tired. How do I increase my energy? How do I increase my increase my energy? How do I increase my increase my energy? How do I increase my energy? And what they don't realize is energy? And what they don't realize is energy? And what they don't realize is like if you think about tiredness, like if you think about tiredness, like if you think about tiredness, tiredness is a signal from the brain. tiredness is a signal from the brain. tiredness is a signal from the brain. Tiredness is not always low energy. Tiredness is not always low energy. Tiredness is not always low energy. Tiredness is your brain's way of telling Tiredness is your brain's way of telling Tiredness is your brain's way of telling you that this is not worth doing. you that this is not worth doing. you that this is not worth doing. And the interesting thing is there are a And the interesting thing is there are a And the interesting thing is there are a lot of things that we do need to do that lot of things that we do need to do that lot of things that we do need to do that we will feel tired for. But the real we will feel tired for. But the real we will feel tired for. But the real solution to that is sometimes is to solution to that is sometimes is to solution to that is sometimes is to force yourself to do it and kind of get force yourself to do it and kind of get force yourself to do it and kind of get yourself out of it. Um, you know, there yourself out of it. Um, you know, there yourself out of it. Um, you know, there are some studies that show that exercise are some studies that show that exercise are some studies that show that exercise is equally effective to an SSRI. So, is equally effective to an SSRI. So, is equally effective to an SSRI. So, there's a value to that. But I think there's a value to that. But I think there's a value to that. But I think what a lot of people are missing is what a lot of people are missing is what a lot of people are missing is their conception of the thing is what's their conception of the thing is what's their conception of the thing is what's making them tired. making them tired. making them tired. >> You know, if you think about something >> You know, if you think about something >> You know, if you think about something that you haven't done before and you're that you haven't done before and you're that you haven't done before and you're like, "Oh my god, I have to do this like, "Oh my god, I have to do this like, "Oh my god, I have to do this thing." And then when you do it, you're thing." And then when you do it, you're thing." And then when you do it, you're like, "Oh, it's not that bad." like, "Oh, it's not that bad." like, "Oh, it's not that bad." And then you procrastinate on doing the And then you procrastinate on doing the And then you procrastinate on doing the thing even though it's actually pretty thing even though it's actually pretty thing even though it's actually pretty easy to do. So changing your easy to do. So changing your easy to do. So changing your understanding of what you are tired to understanding of what you are tired to understanding of what you are tired to do is the fastest way to be able to do do is the fastest way to be able to do do is the fastest way to be able to do it. But the problem is we don't teach it. But the problem is we don't teach it. But the problem is we don't teach men what's going on inside them, right? men what's going on inside them, right? men what's going on inside them, right? We don't teach them about their We don't teach them about their We don't teach them about their emotions. We don't teach them about emotions. We don't teach them about emotions. We don't teach them about motivation. motivation. motivation. Um and so when I when I focus on that, Um and so when I when I focus on that, Um and so when I when I focus on that, that's really what I focus on doing. that's really what I focus on doing. that's really what I focus on doing. There's a you know an old Sanskrit There's a you know an old Sanskrit There's a you know an old Sanskrit sentiment that avidya which means sentiment that avidya which means sentiment that avidya which means ignorance is the source of duka which is ignorance is the source of duka which is ignorance is the source of duka which is suffering. All of your suffering in life suffering. All of your suffering in life suffering. All of your suffering in life has nothing to do with willpower, has nothing to do with willpower, has nothing to do with willpower, motivation or anything that it's all a motivation or anything that it's all a motivation or anything that it's all a lack of understanding. lack of understanding. lack of understanding. And the more I've worked the more I've And the more I've worked the more I've And the more I've worked the more I've realized that the most powerful thing realized that the most powerful thing realized that the most powerful thing that you can give yourself is that you can give yourself is that you can give yourself is understanding. understanding. understanding. Even if I if I were to ask you you know Even if I if I were to ask you you know Even if I if I were to ask you you know like the things that are easy for you like the things that are easy for you like the things that are easy for you are the things that you understand. and are the things that you understand. and are the things that you understand. and before you understood them, they were before you understood them, they were before you understood them, they were hard. hard. hard. As someone who's lazy, As someone who's lazy, As someone who's lazy, like understanding what motivates you is like understanding what motivates you is like understanding what motivates you is actually more important than discipline actually more important than discipline actually more important than discipline or willpower. for me anyway. I'm a or willpower. for me anyway. I'm a or willpower. for me anyway. I'm a degenerate, you know, and I think this degenerate, you know, and I think this degenerate, you know, and I think this is what what a lot of these young men is what what a lot of these young men is what what a lot of these young men who failure to thrive, like I had one who failure to thrive, like I had one who failure to thrive, like I had one patient who, you know, was 31 years old, patient who, you know, was 31 years old, patient who, you know, was 31 years old, struggled with addiction, drop out, you struggled with addiction, drop out, you struggled with addiction, drop out, you know, two years later, not only has is know, two years later, not only has is know, two years later, not only has is he finishing um therapy school, he's he finishing um therapy school, he's he finishing um therapy school, he's becoming a therapist, so he's supporting becoming a therapist, so he's supporting becoming a therapist, so he's supporting himself, making about 150k a year. He's himself, making about 150k a year. He's himself, making about 150k a year. He's also writing a dystopian novel. Two also writing a dystopian novel. Two also writing a dystopian novel. Two years uh two years later, he messaged me years uh two years later, he messaged me years uh two years later, he messaged me it had been published, right? and and it had been published, right? and and it had been published, right? and and and it's like understanding why he and it's like understanding why he and it's like understanding why he behaved the way that he did. behaved the way that he did. behaved the way that he did. And the more that you understand how the And the more that you understand how the And the more that you understand how the system works, then you can make minor system works, then you can make minor system works, then you can make minor adjustments and you can make it work. A adjustments and you can make it work. A adjustments and you can make it work. A car is really hard to move if you're not car is really hard to move if you're not car is really hard to move if you're not driving it and you don't know how to driving it and you don't know how to driving it and you don't know how to turn it on. I totally agree. uh and I turn it on. I totally agree. uh and I turn it on. I totally agree. uh and I think that the false message that many think that the false message that many think that the false message that many people have received is and that we hear people have received is and that we hear people have received is and that we hear all the time is that a focus on self all the time is that a focus on self all the time is that a focus on self trying to understand the self is really trying to understand the self is really trying to understand the self is really just um indulgent uh focus on one's just um indulgent uh focus on one's just um indulgent uh focus on one's emotions. It's the like me culture naval emotions. It's the like me culture naval emotions. It's the like me culture naval gazing but that's not what you're gazing but that's not what you're gazing but that's not what you're talking about. You're talking about talking about. You're talking about talking about. You're talking about doing the work of doing the work of doing the work of addressing what parts of you are ego, addressing what parts of you are ego, addressing what parts of you are ego, what do you really want? um doing a what do you really want? um doing a what do you really want? um doing a shiny meditation like learning to access shiny meditation like learning to access shiny meditation like learning to access the void so that you can really see the the void so that you can really see the the void so that you can really see the difference between who you really are difference between who you really are difference between who you really are and what's coming at you from the and what's coming at you from the and what's coming at you from the outside so you can so you can steer. I outside so you can so you can steer. I outside so you can so you can steer. I mean, that's what I'm hearing. And I mean, that's what I'm hearing. And I mean, that's what I'm hearing. And I think that the the challenge is that I think that the the challenge is that I think that the the challenge is that I don't think that there's a language for don't think that there's a language for don't think that there's a language for this exploring of self that makes it this exploring of self that makes it this exploring of self that makes it very clear very clear very clear from the outset in two sentences that from the outset in two sentences that from the outset in two sentences that it's not about it's not about it's not about just being a victim, not about just just being a victim, not about just just being a victim, not about just feeling one's feelings so that you can feeling one's feelings so that you can feeling one's feelings so that you can justify Yeah. justify Yeah. justify Yeah. >> everything as a trauma, right? And I do >> everything as a trauma, right? And I do >> everything as a trauma, right? And I do think there's trauma out there. I think think there's trauma out there. I think think there's trauma out there. I think there are a lot of traumatized people. I there are a lot of traumatized people. I there are a lot of traumatized people. I also think that, you know, we've left also think that, you know, we've left also think that, you know, we've left now the diagnosis of trauma in the in now the diagnosis of trauma in the in now the diagnosis of trauma in the in the beholder. Like everyone's decided the beholder. Like everyone's decided the beholder. Like everyone's decided that they're traumatized by this and that they're traumatized by this and that they're traumatized by this and that and and it's created this other that and and it's created this other that and and it's created this other form of trauma which is that people are form of trauma which is that people are form of trauma which is that people are are fundamentally weak and the people are fundamentally weak and the people are fundamentally weak and the people with real trauma probably aren't getting with real trauma probably aren't getting with real trauma probably aren't getting the treatment they need and deserve. So, the treatment they need and deserve. So, the treatment they need and deserve. So, you know, I it's interesting that we you know, I it's interesting that we you know, I it's interesting that we keep coming back to men and and boys and keep coming back to men and and boys and keep coming back to men and and boys and the way that they're suffering. Do this the way that they're suffering. Do this the way that they're suffering. Do this is probably a good opportunity to talk is probably a good opportunity to talk is probably a good opportunity to talk about pornography. Um, do you recommend about pornography. Um, do you recommend about pornography. Um, do you recommend that young males just not look at that young males just not look at that young males just not look at pornography? pornography? pornography? >> I think the majority of people report no >> I think the majority of people report no >> I think the majority of people report no problems from watching pornography. problems from watching pornography. problems from watching pornography. So, you know, some people will say it's So, you know, some people will say it's So, you know, some people will say it's healthy. I don't know that it's healthy healthy. I don't know that it's healthy healthy. I don't know that it's healthy or not. I think it's like the way that or not. I think it's like the way that or not. I think it's like the way that you use it, just like any other you use it, just like any other you use it, just like any other addictive substance. So, I don't think addictive substance. So, I don't think addictive substance. So, I don't think it is all bad. That being said, there it is all bad. That being said, there it is all bad. That being said, there are a couple of things that are really are a couple of things that are really are a couple of things that are really problematic. Um, the first is that problematic. Um, the first is that problematic. Um, the first is that pornography is getting more pornography is getting more pornography is getting more neuroscientifically engaging. Here's the neuroscientifically engaging. Here's the neuroscientifically engaging. Here's the scariest like statistic about addiction. scariest like statistic about addiction. scariest like statistic about addiction. So 5% of people under the age of 30 had So 5% of people under the age of 30 had So 5% of people under the age of 30 had erectile dysfunction maybe like 20 30 erectile dysfunction maybe like 20 30 erectile dysfunction maybe like 20 30 years ago. That number has climbed to years ago. That number has climbed to years ago. That number has climbed to like 20%. And a lot of that erectile like 20%. And a lot of that erectile like 20%. And a lot of that erectile dysfunction, if you define what erectile dysfunction, if you define what erectile dysfunction, if you define what erectile dysfunction is, it is inability to dysfunction is, it is inability to dysfunction is, it is inability to maintain an erection through the maintain an erection through the maintain an erection through the completion of the sexual act. So it's completion of the sexual act. So it's completion of the sexual act. So it's not that a lot of people think that this not that a lot of people think that this not that a lot of people think that this means they can't get hard. It's not that means they can't get hard. It's not that means they can't get hard. It's not that they can't get it hard. They can get an they can't get it hard. They can get an they can't get it hard. They can get an erection. It's just they can't achieve erection. It's just they can't achieve erection. It's just they can't achieve orgasm or climax. So, I I think we're orgasm or climax. So, I I think we're orgasm or climax. So, I I think we're seeing a lot of problems with seeing a lot of problems with seeing a lot of problems with pornography. We're seeing a lot of very pornography. We're seeing a lot of very pornography. We're seeing a lot of very young people having erectile young people having erectile young people having erectile dysfunction, being unable to achieve dysfunction, being unable to achieve dysfunction, being unable to achieve climax through penetrative intercourse. climax through penetrative intercourse. climax through penetrative intercourse. It's affecting the brain a lot more. So, It's affecting the brain a lot more. So, It's affecting the brain a lot more. So, the colors are brighter, things are the colors are brighter, things are the colors are brighter, things are jigglier, things are bouncier. There's jigglier, things are bouncier. There's jigglier, things are bouncier. There's virtual reality 8K, 4K. The bigger virtual reality 8K, 4K. The bigger virtual reality 8K, 4K. The bigger problem that I'm seeing um or the problem that I'm seeing um or the problem that I'm seeing um or the scarier problem is pornography used to scarier problem is pornography used to scarier problem is pornography used to be something of passive consumption. So be something of passive consumption. So be something of passive consumption. So the porn is over there and I'm over the porn is over there and I'm over the porn is over there and I'm over here. There's no emotional connection. here. There's no emotional connection. here. There's no emotional connection. There's no parasocial relationship. The There's no parasocial relationship. The There's no parasocial relationship. The really scary thing is with the things really scary thing is with the things really scary thing is with the things things like Only Fans now the person things like Only Fans now the person things like Only Fans now the person that you're watching pornography for is that you're watching pornography for is that you're watching pornography for is interacting with you. They're saying interacting with you. They're saying interacting with you. They're saying thank you. They're appreciating you. thank you. They're appreciating you. thank you. They're appreciating you. you're asking them and then they're you're asking them and then they're you're asking them and then they're sending you a picture or making a video sending you a picture or making a video sending you a picture or making a video just for you. So, I'm seeing a lot more just for you. So, I'm seeing a lot more just for you. So, I'm seeing a lot more scary parasocial relationships develop. scary parasocial relationships develop. scary parasocial relationships develop. I'm seeing emotional affairs. So, now I'm seeing emotional affairs. So, now I'm seeing emotional affairs. So, now like we've added a dimension of our like we've added a dimension of our like we've added a dimension of our brain, the empathic circuit, the social brain, the empathic circuit, the social brain, the empathic circuit, the social circuits, the relationship circuits are circuits, the relationship circuits are circuits, the relationship circuits are now starting to activate with now starting to activate with now starting to activate with pornography. pornography. pornography. So, that's like a whole different So, that's like a whole different So, that's like a whole different ballgame. And then there's a lot of data ballgame. And then there's a lot of data ballgame. And then there's a lot of data just about ease of access and things just about ease of access and things just about ease of access and things like that. I think pornography like that. I think pornography like that. I think pornography addiction, you know, it's interesting. A addiction, you know, it's interesting. A addiction, you know, it's interesting. A very uh strong risk factor is very uh strong risk factor is very uh strong risk factor is preubescent exposure to pornography. preubescent exposure to pornography. preubescent exposure to pornography. >> Young young kids are majority of people >> Young young kids are majority of people >> Young young kids are majority of people actually get exposed to their first actually get exposed to their first actually get exposed to their first pornography now before they hit puberty. pornography now before they hit puberty. pornography now before they hit puberty. But there's something about when when But there's something about when when But there's something about when when you get exposed to pornography when your you get exposed to pornography when your you get exposed to pornography when your brain is developing before puberty, it brain is developing before puberty, it brain is developing before puberty, it increases your risk factor for it increases your risk factor for it increases your risk factor for it increases the risk of developing increases the risk of developing increases the risk of developing addiction later in life. So there is addiction later in life. So there is addiction later in life. So there is something just special about sex and the something just special about sex and the something just special about sex and the way that it affects our brain. You know, way that it affects our brain. You know, way that it affects our brain. You know, we're talking about salience and things we're talking about salience and things we're talking about salience and things like that. We've basically evolved this like that. We've basically evolved this like that. We've basically evolved this whole thing to procreate. So when we get whole thing to procreate. So when we get whole thing to procreate. So when we get visual stimuli, when we get auditory visual stimuli, when we get auditory visual stimuli, when we get auditory stimuli, you know, it turns our brain on stimuli, you know, it turns our brain on stimuli, you know, it turns our brain on in certain in in a very profound way. Um in certain in in a very profound way. Um in certain in in a very profound way. Um we see a lot of emotional suppression. we see a lot of emotional suppression. we see a lot of emotional suppression. So what a lot of people don't realize, I So what a lot of people don't realize, I So what a lot of people don't realize, I work with a lot of people who struggle work with a lot of people who struggle work with a lot of people who struggle with pornography. It really the with pornography. It really the with pornography. It really the emotional regulation component is huge. emotional regulation component is huge. emotional regulation component is huge. They're not horny. It's not necessarily They're not horny. It's not necessarily They're not horny. It's not necessarily a lot of masturbation, which is what a a lot of masturbation, which is what a a lot of masturbation, which is what a lot of people assume. Um, often times lot of people assume. Um, often times lot of people assume. Um, often times it's like second screen kind of stuff. it's like second screen kind of stuff. it's like second screen kind of stuff. It's watching pornography like when you It's watching pornography like when you It's watching pornography like when you use the restroom and just like you're use the restroom and just like you're use the restroom and just like you're not doing you're not jerking off or not doing you're not jerking off or not doing you're not jerking off or anything. You're just like watching anything. You're just like watching anything. You're just like watching porn. porn. porn. >> So sort of a like a numbing out type of >> So sort of a like a numbing out type of >> So sort of a like a numbing out type of activity. activity. activity. >> Absolutely. Right. So this is key thing >> Absolutely. Right. So this is key thing >> Absolutely. Right. So this is key thing to remember is in order for something to to remember is in order for something to to remember is in order for something to be addictive, it needs two things. It be addictive, it needs two things. It be addictive, it needs two things. It needs to give us pleasure and it needs needs to give us pleasure and it needs needs to give us pleasure and it needs to take away pain. And as we see to take away pain. And as we see to take away pain. And as we see addiction Over time, it shifts away from addiction Over time, it shifts away from addiction Over time, it shifts away from pleasure into taking away pain. When we pleasure into taking away pain. When we pleasure into taking away pain. When we become dependent on something is when we become dependent on something is when we become dependent on something is when we we require it to numb ourselves. we require it to numb ourselves. we require it to numb ourselves. So, I think we're also seeing more So, I think we're also seeing more So, I think we're also seeing more pornography because pornography because pornography because life for everybody, young people and life for everybody, young people and life for everybody, young people and young men, is getting harder. So, as we young men, is getting harder. So, as we young men, is getting harder. So, as we become more socially isolated, as we become more socially isolated, as we become more socially isolated, as we it's harder to find a girlfriend, um as it's harder to find a girlfriend, um as it's harder to find a girlfriend, um as we get indoctrinated by social media, as we get indoctrinated by social media, as we get indoctrinated by social media, as we become delusional because of social we become delusional because of social we become delusional because of social media, as our social skills atrophy, media, as our social skills atrophy, media, as our social skills atrophy, you know, like all of these things are you know, like all of these things are you know, like all of these things are happening, it's pretty bleak picture. It happening, it's pretty bleak picture. It happening, it's pretty bleak picture. It is bleak and and I think the reason it's is bleak and and I think the reason it's is bleak and and I think the reason it's bleak is because we haven't been bleak is because we haven't been bleak is because we haven't been fighting back in a very focused way. So, fighting back in a very focused way. So, fighting back in a very focused way. So, uh, you know, part of the reason I I've uh, you know, part of the reason I I've uh, you know, part of the reason I I've focused so much on relationships, focused so much on relationships, focused so much on relationships, um, because I'm not a coup's therapist, um, because I'm not a coup's therapist, um, because I'm not a coup's therapist, but like what I found is that in my but like what I found is that in my but like what I found is that in my patients, patients, patients, I could only do so much without give I could only do so much without give I could only do so much without give like having them have a relationship. like having them have a relationship. like having them have a relationship. >> Like you can be depressed, you can be >> Like you can be depressed, you can be >> Like you can be depressed, you can be anxious, but if you have a solid anxious, but if you have a solid anxious, but if you have a solid relationship, that is one of the most relationship, that is one of the most relationship, that is one of the most important things. Like some point I important things. Like some point I important things. Like some point I really started focusing on this. This really started focusing on this. This really started focusing on this. This was like like literally I was down the was like like literally I was down the was like like literally I was down the street or you know on the opposite side street or you know on the opposite side street or you know on the opposite side of town filming a guide about like what of town filming a guide about like what of town filming a guide about like what is the science behind is the science behind is the science behind arousal activation? How do you flirt? arousal activation? How do you flirt? arousal activation? How do you flirt? Like these are the skills like like how Like these are the skills like like how Like these are the skills like like how do we help people? I think it's like do we help people? I think it's like do we help people? I think it's like giving them the skills that we used to giving them the skills that we used to giving them the skills that we used to learn organically. Do you think that a learn organically. Do you think that a learn organically. Do you think that a lot of the attention on, lot of the attention on, lot of the attention on, you know, muscle building, on looks you know, muscle building, on looks you know, muscle building, on looks maxing is actually just a safer um maxing is actually just a safer um maxing is actually just a safer um discussion for young males? Like they discussion for young males? Like they discussion for young males? Like they can talk about that. They can talk can talk about that. They can talk can talk about that. They can talk about, you know, trying to get body fat about, you know, trying to get body fat about, you know, trying to get body fat percentages or they're doing like mewing percentages or they're doing like mewing percentages or they're doing like mewing for their jaw or something, you know, for their jaw or something, you know, for their jaw or something, you know, like like I think nasal breathing can be like like I think nasal breathing can be like like I think nasal breathing can be very helpful, but this the whole thing very helpful, but this the whole thing very helpful, but this the whole thing of looks maxing is so insane to me. But of looks maxing is so insane to me. But of looks maxing is so insane to me. But maybe it's a way of talking about maybe it's a way of talking about maybe it's a way of talking about wanting to be different because the wanting to be different because the wanting to be different because the conversation about sex, about intimacy, conversation about sex, about intimacy, conversation about sex, about intimacy, about maybe someone has issues with porn about maybe someone has issues with porn about maybe someone has issues with porn or or erectile issues. Maybe that's just or or erectile issues. Maybe that's just or or erectile issues. Maybe that's just like so scary that they have to that it like so scary that they have to that it like so scary that they have to that it it's kind of a way of them getting close it's kind of a way of them getting close it's kind of a way of them getting close to the topic but not really in the to the topic but not really in the to the topic but not really in the topics because when people have topics because when people have topics because when people have approached me uh and said, "Hey man, can approached me uh and said, "Hey man, can approached me uh and said, "Hey man, can you help me out? I'm I'm really having you help me out? I'm I'm really having you help me out? I'm I'm really having problems." They're not talking to me problems." They're not talking to me problems." They're not talking to me about what I just described. They're about what I just described. They're about what I just described. They're they're talking about not knowing which they're talking about not knowing which they're talking about not knowing which career to have, but then they're asking career to have, but then they're asking career to have, but then they're asking me about how to work out and then me about how to work out and then me about how to work out and then they're it's sort of it's almost like they're it's sort of it's almost like they're it's sort of it's almost like they're they're kind of I have a feeling they're they're kind of I have a feeling they're they're kind of I have a feeling there's a lot more going on. there's a lot more going on. there's a lot more going on. >> Yeah. So, here's what I'd say. One of >> Yeah. So, here's what I'd say. One of >> Yeah. So, here's what I'd say. One of the great things I learned as a the great things I learned as a the great things I learned as a psychiatrist. The best way to run away from an The best way to run away from an unsolvable problem is to solve something unsolvable problem is to solve something unsolvable problem is to solve something else. else. else. So, I think you're absolutely right. So, I think you're absolutely right. So, I think you're absolutely right. There's a displacement There's a displacement There's a displacement because I don't even know where to start because I don't even know where to start because I don't even know where to start with how to flirt. But you know what? I with how to flirt. But you know what? I with how to flirt. But you know what? I can control. Like, here's the the thing can control. Like, here's the the thing can control. Like, here's the the thing about looks maxing. There's no other about looks maxing. There's no other about looks maxing. There's no other humans involved. There's no possibility. humans involved. There's no possibility. humans involved. There's no possibility. Like, getting somebody else to fall in Like, getting somebody else to fall in Like, getting somebody else to fall in love with me. Like, that's so love with me. Like, that's so love with me. Like, that's so hard. I don't even know where to start. hard. I don't even know where to start. hard. I don't even know where to start. I don't even like myself. How am I I don't even like myself. How am I I don't even like myself. How am I supposed to get somebody else to fall in supposed to get somebody else to fall in supposed to get somebody else to fall in love with me? When I look in the mirror, love with me? When I look in the mirror, love with me? When I look in the mirror, I see disgust. I see disgust. I see disgust. I cannot I cannot I cannot fathom or tolerate the idea of going on fathom or tolerate the idea of going on fathom or tolerate the idea of going on a date and having this person look at a date and having this person look at a date and having this person look at this. So, I'm going to transform myself. this. So, I'm going to transform myself. this. So, I'm going to transform myself. I'm going to solve all of those problems I'm going to solve all of those problems I'm going to solve all of those problems by solving one problem. I'm going to by solving one problem. I'm going to by solving one problem. I'm going to turn if I can just do this one thing. turn if I can just do this one thing. turn if I can just do this one thing. I'm going to take a multivariate I'm going to take a multivariate I'm going to take a multivariate regression analysis and hyperfocus on regression analysis and hyperfocus on regression analysis and hyperfocus on one variable. I'm gonna do a very one variable. I'm gonna do a very one variable. I'm gonna do a very interesting selection bias and cognitive interesting selection bias and cognitive interesting selection bias and cognitive bias, cognitive filtering of ignoring bias, cognitive filtering of ignoring bias, cognitive filtering of ignoring all of the beautiful people who are all of the beautiful people who are all of the beautiful people who are still single or divorced. And the other still single or divorced. And the other still single or divorced. And the other huge cognitive bias that I'm going to do huge cognitive bias that I'm going to do huge cognitive bias that I'm going to do when I go to a playground and I see lots when I go to a playground and I see lots when I go to a playground and I see lots of kids running around and I look at the of kids running around and I look at the of kids running around and I look at the parents of those kids, they're averagel parents of those kids, they're averagel parents of those kids, they're averagel looking, looking, looking, right? Most people who have right? Most people who have right? Most people who have relationships look average like relationships look average like relationships look average like statistically that's how it works. But statistically that's how it works. But statistically that's how it works. But the mind does not know how to grab the the mind does not know how to grab the the mind does not know how to grab the problem is too big. Where do I start? Do problem is too big. Where do I start? Do problem is too big. Where do I start? Do I learn how to flirt? I'm creepy. How do I learn how to flirt? I'm creepy. How do I learn how to flirt? I'm creepy. How do I learn how to flirt? How do I learn how I learn how to flirt? How do I learn how I learn how to flirt? How do I learn how to flirt without getting rejected? I'm to flirt without getting rejected? I'm to flirt without getting rejected? I'm tired of getting rejected. I don't want tired of getting rejected. I don't want tired of getting rejected. I don't want to get rejected. It hurts to get to get rejected. It hurts to get to get rejected. It hurts to get rejected. It proves all of my rejected. It proves all of my rejected. It proves all of my insecurities about myself. And that's insecurities about myself. And that's insecurities about myself. And that's just flirting. just flirting. just flirting. So if you talk to these people a lot of So if you talk to these people a lot of So if you talk to these people a lot of times what you'll get is anytime you times what you'll get is anytime you times what you'll get is anytime you tell them to move forward what they'll tell them to move forward what they'll tell them to move forward what they'll say is but how do I solve the next thing say is but how do I solve the next thing say is but how do I solve the next thing that doesn't account for this even if I that doesn't account for this even if I that doesn't account for this even if I looks smack it doesn't do this it looks smack it doesn't do this it looks smack it doesn't do this it doesn't do this it doesn't do this and doesn't do this it doesn't do this and doesn't do this it doesn't do this and that's why like the more that they they that's why like the more that they they that's why like the more that they they they go into looks maxing because they go into looks maxing because they go into looks maxing because there's this idea that if you're there's this idea that if you're there's this idea that if you're beautiful right and this is some really beautiful right and this is some really beautiful right and this is some really interesting theory of mind when they interesting theory of mind when they interesting theory of mind when they look at the people that they're look at the people that they're look at the people that they're attracted to attracted to attracted to in their mind if someone's a 10 out of in their mind if someone's a 10 out of in their mind if someone's a 10 out of 10 I date them in a heartbeat and if I 10 I date them in a heartbeat and if I 10 I date them in a heartbeat and if I date them, someone would date me. date them, someone would date me. date them, someone would date me. >> So, I think this looks maxing thing is >> So, I think this looks maxing thing is >> So, I think this looks maxing thing is like a really great way of displacing like a really great way of displacing like a really great way of displacing all of our terrifying, overwhelming all of our terrifying, overwhelming all of our terrifying, overwhelming feelings of how do I get another human feelings of how do I get another human feelings of how do I get another human being to accept me? It's way more being to accept me? It's way more being to accept me? It's way more complicated. The good news is that I complicated. The good news is that I complicated. The good news is that I think we can actually figure it out. think we can actually figure it out. think we can actually figure it out. Like I don't know how many research Like I don't know how many research Like I don't know how many research studies are published, but I was blown studies are published, but I was blown studies are published, but I was blown away. Did you know that half the studies away. Did you know that half the studies away. Did you know that half the studies on charisma are published in religious on charisma are published in religious on charisma are published in religious studies journals? It's fascinating. studies journals? It's fascinating. studies journals? It's fascinating. There's so much science out there. Like There's so much science out there. Like There's so much science out there. Like we know so many things. We literally we know so many things. We literally we know so many things. We literally know like how people fall in love. We know like how people fall in love. We know like how people fall in love. We know that one of the reasons that it's know that one of the reasons that it's know that one of the reasons that it's harder to fall in love is because the harder to fall in love is because the harder to fall in love is because the feeling of being in love, you know that feeling of being in love, you know that feeling of being in love, you know that feeling of like just seeing someone and feeling of like just seeing someone and feeling of like just seeing someone and like you feel amazing and like just like you feel amazing and like just like you feel amazing and like just their presence makes you feel amazing. their presence makes you feel amazing. their presence makes you feel amazing. Floods your brain with dopamine. So, as Floods your brain with dopamine. So, as Floods your brain with dopamine. So, as our dopamine system gets messed up by our dopamine system gets messed up by our dopamine system gets messed up by social media, it has literally become social media, it has literally become social media, it has literally become neurochemically harder to fall in love. neurochemically harder to fall in love. neurochemically harder to fall in love. So, now when I have patients, I tell So, now when I have patients, I tell So, now when I have patients, I tell them, "Go for a walk for 1 hour before them, "Go for a walk for 1 hour before them, "Go for a walk for 1 hour before you go on a date and stay off of any you go on a date and stay off of any you go on a date and stay off of any technology." technology." technology." >> Love that. >> Love that. >> Love that. >> Literally, your neuroscientific capacity >> Literally, your neuroscientific capacity >> Literally, your neuroscientific capacity to fall in love is increased. May I ask to fall in love is increased. May I ask to fall in love is increased. May I ask what you think about this? I'm a big fan what you think about this? I'm a big fan what you think about this? I'm a big fan lately of boring breaks in order to stay lately of boring breaks in order to stay lately of boring breaks in order to stay on task for things like writing, uh, on task for things like writing, uh, on task for things like writing, uh, podcast research, etc. I find that if podcast research, etc. I find that if podcast research, etc. I find that if breaks between cognitive tasks, which breaks between cognitive tasks, which breaks between cognitive tasks, which are demanding, if those breaks are too are demanding, if those breaks are too are demanding, if those breaks are too engaging, that it makes it much much engaging, that it makes it much much engaging, that it makes it much much harder to re-engage in hard work, which harder to re-engage in hard work, which harder to re-engage in hard work, which I love hard work, but I also experience I love hard work, but I also experience I love hard work, but I also experience some of the friction going into a bout some of the friction going into a bout some of the friction going into a bout of work. of work. of work. >> Yeah. So, what most people do on their >> Yeah. So, what most people do on their >> Yeah. So, what most people do on their breaks is exhausting, breaks is exhausting, breaks is exhausting, literally, right? So, if you spend time literally, right? So, if you spend time literally, right? So, if you spend time on social media, your brain will be more on social media, your brain will be more on social media, your brain will be more tired at the end of the break. So tired at the end of the break. So tired at the end of the break. So boredom is great. There's a lot of stuff boredom is great. There's a lot of stuff boredom is great. There's a lot of stuff around yoga and boredom and focusing the around yoga and boredom and focusing the around yoga and boredom and focusing the mind and and and things like that. But mind and and and things like that. But mind and and and things like that. But yeah, I'm I'm with you 100%. So people yeah, I'm I'm with you 100%. So people yeah, I'm I'm with you 100%. So people don't understand what's happening to don't understand what's happening to don't understand what's happening to them. They don't understand also like them. They don't understand also like them. They don't understand also like how to make people fall in love with how to make people fall in love with how to make people fall in love with you. Like and I don't mean that that's you. Like and I don't mean that that's you. Like and I don't mean that that's the wrong phrase, but so human beings the wrong phrase, but so human beings the wrong phrase, but so human beings have been falling in love since the dawn have been falling in love since the dawn have been falling in love since the dawn of humanity, like literally. And there of humanity, like literally. And there of humanity, like literally. And there are certain circumstances that lead to are certain circumstances that lead to are certain circumstances that lead to that. There's a cool study that I cite that. There's a cool study that I cite that. There's a cool study that I cite over and over and over again. They had over and over and over again. They had over and over and over again. They had couples go on a date on a stone bridge couples go on a date on a stone bridge couples go on a date on a stone bridge or a rickety wooden bridge. And the the or a rickety wooden bridge. And the the or a rickety wooden bridge. And the the couples that were on the rickety wooden couples that were on the rickety wooden couples that were on the rickety wooden bridge formed a stronger emotional bond. bridge formed a stronger emotional bond. bridge formed a stronger emotional bond. People don't realize that forming an People don't realize that forming an People don't realize that forming an emotional bond depends on shared emotional bond depends on shared emotional bond depends on shared emotional experience. So we have to feel emotional experience. So we have to feel emotional experience. So we have to feel the same thing. This is such a problem the same thing. This is such a problem the same thing. This is such a problem in rehab. My biggest problem when I'm in rehab. My biggest problem when I'm in rehab. My biggest problem when I'm running a rehab as an attending is like running a rehab as an attending is like running a rehab as an attending is like people keep falling in love. Like we're people keep falling in love. Like we're people keep falling in love. Like we're trying really hard like don't fall in trying really hard like don't fall in trying really hard like don't fall in love, don't fall. These two are getting love, don't fall. These two are getting love, don't fall. These two are getting together. All the nursing staff is together. All the nursing staff is together. All the nursing staff is aware. They went to their rooms aware. They went to their rooms aware. They went to their rooms overnight. Like this is happening like overnight. Like this is happening like overnight. Like this is happening like you know we're like don't no love and no you know we're like don't no love and no you know we're like don't no love and no in in rehab. But it happens over and in in rehab. But it happens over and in in rehab. But it happens over and over again because everyone is sharing. over again because everyone is sharing. over again because everyone is sharing. Trauma bonding is what people call it Trauma bonding is what people call it Trauma bonding is what people call it now. But when you share an emotional now. But when you share an emotional now. But when you share an emotional experience with someone else that is experience with someone else that is experience with someone else that is what fosters love. what fosters love. what fosters love. But nowadays what happens is like dating But nowadays what happens is like dating But nowadays what happens is like dating is like interviews. Everyone's making is like interviews. Everyone's making is like interviews. Everyone's making judgments on each other from based on a judgments on each other from based on a judgments on each other from based on a profile. None of those things actually profile. None of those things actually profile. None of those things actually correlate with the relationship success, correlate with the relationship success, correlate with the relationship success, whether you're six feet, how much money whether you're six feet, how much money whether you're six feet, how much money you make, doesn't correlate with I mean, you make, doesn't correlate with I mean, you make, doesn't correlate with I mean, I'm sure maybe correlates on some level, I'm sure maybe correlates on some level, I'm sure maybe correlates on some level, but if you look at the big variables, but if you look at the big variables, but if you look at the big variables, it's not any of that stuff. it's not any of that stuff. it's not any of that stuff. And if you think about like how you fell And if you think about like how you fell And if you think about like how you fell in love with your girlfriend, how I fell in love with your girlfriend, how I fell in love with your girlfriend, how I fell in love, like I was I was going to be a in love, like I was I was going to be a in love, like I was I was going to be a monk. I told my girlfriend, I didn't monk. I told my girlfriend, I didn't monk. I told my girlfriend, I didn't know we were dating. I didn't even ask know we were dating. I didn't even ask know we were dating. I didn't even ask her out on a date. I was just like, her out on a date. I was just like, her out on a date. I was just like, "Hey, you want to grab food sometime?" I "Hey, you want to grab food sometime?" I "Hey, you want to grab food sometime?" I was going to be a monk. And then I even was going to be a monk. And then I even was going to be a monk. And then I even told her I was like, "Hey, I'm going to told her I was like, "Hey, I'm going to told her I was like, "Hey, I'm going to be I'm going to be a monk. Like this is be I'm going to be a monk. Like this is be I'm going to be a monk. Like this is a temporary thing." And she's like, a temporary thing." And she's like, a temporary thing." And she's like, "Yeah, whatever." "Yeah, whatever." "Yeah, whatever." >> Seven years later, you're back from >> Seven years later, you're back from >> Seven years later, you're back from India. India. India. >> Oh, no. Well, so I I would come back >> Oh, no. Well, so I I would come back >> Oh, no. Well, so I I would come back back and forth. But back and forth. But back and forth. But >> um so we like data during that time. And >> um so we like data during that time. And >> um so we like data during that time. And the cool thing is like, you know, as an the cool thing is like, you know, as an the cool thing is like, you know, as an educator, right? Like it's amazing if educator, right? Like it's amazing if educator, right? Like it's amazing if you teach someone how something works you teach someone how something works you teach someone how something works and like love is like not that and like love is like not that and like love is like not that complicated actually complicated actually complicated actually >> if given the right environment internal >> if given the right environment internal >> if given the right environment internal and external and external and external >> environment. Yeah. Yeah. >> environment. Yeah. Yeah. >> environment. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm not trying to be academic >> Yeah. I'm not trying to be academic >> Yeah. I'm not trying to be academic about it but what you described about an about it but what you described about an about it but what you described about an hour off social media before going on a hour off social media before going on a hour off social media before going on a date. I think that's terrific advice to date. I think that's terrific advice to date. I think that's terrific advice to people. I think that um that this idea people. I think that um that this idea people. I think that um that this idea that our nervous systems are somehow that our nervous systems are somehow that our nervous systems are somehow able to pivot from one sensory able to pivot from one sensory able to pivot from one sensory experience to the next without the experience to the next without the experience to the next without the previous sensory experience completely previous sensory experience completely previous sensory experience completely either contaminating or supporting what either contaminating or supporting what either contaminating or supporting what comes next is so obvious in the case of comes next is so obvious in the case of comes next is so obvious in the case of you get a great night's sleep, you wake you get a great night's sleep, you wake you get a great night's sleep, you wake up, the next morning you feel great. You up, the next morning you feel great. You up, the next morning you feel great. You get a terrible night's sleep, the next get a terrible night's sleep, the next get a terrible night's sleep, the next morning you feel terrible. Everyone morning you feel terrible. Everyone morning you feel terrible. Everyone understands that. But people can't understands that. But people can't understands that. But people can't understand the idea of dopamine understand the idea of dopamine understand the idea of dopamine depletion or just over arousal and then depletion or just over arousal and then depletion or just over arousal and then going into the next thing that should be going into the next thing that should be going into the next thing that should be arousing and it's like under arousing. arousing and it's like under arousing. arousing and it's like under arousing. And I'm not even talking about sex here. And I'm not even talking about sex here. And I'm not even talking about sex here. I'm talking about social interaction. I'm talking about social interaction. I'm talking about social interaction. >> So when I was looking at the mechanisms >> So when I was looking at the mechanisms >> So when I was looking at the mechanisms of this, I realized why going on a movie of this, I realized why going on a movie of this, I realized why going on a movie is a great first date. You know, people is a great first date. You know, people is a great first date. You know, people like back when we were growing up, like back when we were growing up, like back when we were growing up, people would go on movies on first people would go on movies on first people would go on movies on first dates, right? And everyone's like, "Why dates, right? And everyone's like, "Why dates, right? And everyone's like, "Why would you go on a movie for a first would you go on a movie for a first would you go on a movie for a first date? You're not even talking or getting date? You're not even talking or getting date? You're not even talking or getting to know the other person." Well, it to know the other person." Well, it to know the other person." Well, it turns out that movies create shared turns out that movies create shared turns out that movies create shared emotional experiences, which is why emotional experiences, which is why emotional experiences, which is why people organically figured out that you people organically figured out that you people organically figured out that you can go to a movie and it'll actually can go to a movie and it'll actually can go to a movie and it'll actually it's a great first date. But I I I I it's a great first date. But I I I I it's a great first date. But I I I I think, you know, things do seem bleak, think, you know, things do seem bleak, think, you know, things do seem bleak, but I think we've got the tools to but I think we've got the tools to but I think we've got the tools to reverse it. So I I think the cool thing reverse it. So I I think the cool thing reverse it. So I I think the cool thing is we do have all of this information. is we do have all of this information. is we do have all of this information. And so like we we know how to how to how And so like we we know how to how to how And so like we we know how to how to how to be charming, how to flirt, what are to be charming, how to flirt, what are to be charming, how to flirt, what are the situations that you need to create the situations that you need to create the situations that you need to create in order to foster interactions, uh in order to foster interactions, uh in order to foster interactions, uh foster a relationship, foster emotional foster a relationship, foster emotional foster a relationship, foster emotional connection. Um you know, what makes you connection. Um you know, what makes you connection. Um you know, what makes you charismatic, what makes you attractive? charismatic, what makes you attractive? charismatic, what makes you attractive? Things like humor and kindness are Things like humor and kindness are Things like humor and kindness are incredibly important. Humor is a a huge incredibly important. Humor is a a huge incredibly important. Humor is a a huge signal that signals both intelligence signal that signals both intelligence signal that signals both intelligence because if you can make someone laugh, because if you can make someone laugh, because if you can make someone laugh, you can read them. And so it's also a you can read them. And so it's also a you can read them. And so it's also a signal of empathy signal of empathy signal of empathy >> and ability like does this person get >> and ability like does this person get >> and ability like does this person get me? If they can make you laugh that me? If they can make you laugh that me? If they can make you laugh that means that they get you. means that they get you. means that they get you. >> And and the last thing that I'll kind of >> And and the last thing that I'll kind of >> And and the last thing that I'll kind of mention is that we were talking about mention is that we were talking about mention is that we were talking about how you know the internet is like how you know the internet is like how you know the internet is like people live in different worlds on the people live in different worlds on the people live in different worlds on the internet. And the really scary thing I I internet. And the really scary thing I I internet. And the really scary thing I I made a great YouTube video that was kind made a great YouTube video that was kind made a great YouTube video that was kind of controversial but why why women of controversial but why why women of controversial but why why women prefer beta males. And the really prefer beta males. And the really prefer beta males. And the really interesting thing is a lot of people interesting thing is a lot of people interesting thing is a lot of people were really upset by it. It was about were really upset by it. It was about were really upset by it. It was about this drive for muscularity and some of this drive for muscularity and some of this drive for muscularity and some of the scientific research. But the really the scientific research. But the really the scientific research. But the really interesting thing was the male versus interesting thing was the male versus interesting thing was the male versus female response to the video female response to the video female response to the video that women were like, "Yeah, this guy's that women were like, "Yeah, this guy's that women were like, "Yeah, this guy's right. We're actually like these super right. We're actually like these super right. We're actually like these super alpha guys are like not actually like alpha guys are like not actually like alpha guys are like not actually like like not attractive. Like I I would run like not attractive. Like I I would run like not attractive. Like I I would run for the hills." And then a lot of dudes for the hills." And then a lot of dudes for the hills." And then a lot of dudes were like, "Oh, this guy's like he were like, "Oh, this guy's like he were like, "Oh, this guy's like he doesn't know what he's talking about." doesn't know what he's talking about." doesn't know what he's talking about." So it's really interesting. Part of what So it's really interesting. Part of what So it's really interesting. Part of what makes it so hard is not only do we have makes it so hard is not only do we have makes it so hard is not only do we have these like effects from pornography and these like effects from pornography and these like effects from pornography and atrophy of the social circuits of our atrophy of the social circuits of our atrophy of the social circuits of our brain, but then we're also like we just brain, but then we're also like we just brain, but then we're also like we just have bad information. And in my have bad information. And in my have bad information. And in my experience, once you get good experience, once you get good experience, once you get good information, I'm sure this is true of information, I'm sure this is true of information, I'm sure this is true of you too, right? Like once you get good you too, right? Like once you get good you too, right? Like once you get good information and once you start applying information and once you start applying information and once you start applying it, once you start practicing it, you'd it, once you start practicing it, you'd it, once you start practicing it, you'd be amazed be amazed be amazed at how much understanding a system can at how much understanding a system can at how much understanding a system can give you mastery over it. give you mastery over it. give you mastery over it. >> Oh, absolutely. I mean, I I can't claim >> Oh, absolutely. I mean, I I can't claim >> Oh, absolutely. I mean, I I can't claim it in the domains that you're so it in the domains that you're so it in the domains that you're so proficient in, but I'll never forget as proficient in, but I'll never forget as proficient in, but I'll never forget as an undergraduate working in a sleep an undergraduate working in a sleep an undergraduate working in a sleep laboratory over a summer at Stanford and laboratory over a summer at Stanford and laboratory over a summer at Stanford and every afternoon the entire laboratory every afternoon the entire laboratory every afternoon the entire laboratory would go outside to watch the sunset. would go outside to watch the sunset. would go outside to watch the sunset. And I asked I I'll never forget I asked And I asked I I'll never forget I asked And I asked I I'll never forget I asked Sein Nishino. I asked you know Emanuel Sein Nishino. I asked you know Emanuel Sein Nishino. I asked you know Emanuel Mol I these guys discovered the genes Mol I these guys discovered the genes Mol I these guys discovered the genes that underly narcolepsy and they that that underly narcolepsy and they that that underly narcolepsy and they that druggable targets now exist that drugs druggable targets now exist that drugs druggable targets now exist that drugs exist to treat but at the time they said exist to treat but at the time they said exist to treat but at the time they said oh we do this to entrain our circadian oh we do this to entrain our circadian oh we do this to entrain our circadian rhythm and you need to watch the sunrise rhythm and you need to watch the sunrise rhythm and you need to watch the sunrise so you need to see sun within the first so you need to see sun within the first so you need to see sun within the first hours of your day this was um mid 90s hours of your day this was um mid 90s hours of your day this was um mid 90s and I remember thinking like how could and I remember thinking like how could and I remember thinking like how could that be and I started reading about it that be and I started reading about it that be and I started reading about it and the the cells that regulate this had and the the cells that regulate this had and the the cells that regulate this had not yet been discovered that was in the not yet been discovered that was in the not yet been discovered that was in the early 2000s like we didn't even know early 2000s like we didn't even know early 2000s like we didn't even know retinal neurons mediated this but these retinal neurons mediated this but these retinal neurons mediated this but these guys knew this from their own lives and guys knew this from their own lives and guys knew this from their own lives and their own practices and and I started their own practices and and I started their own practices and and I started realizing oh there's a mechanism here realizing oh there's a mechanism here realizing oh there's a mechanism here and there as more became that got and there as more became that got and there as more became that got discovered it's like this changes mood discovered it's like this changes mood discovered it's like this changes mood mental health metabolism I we now just mental health metabolism I we now just mental health metabolism I we now just all take this for granted but all take this for granted but all take this for granted but understanding the mechanism behind understanding the mechanism behind understanding the mechanism behind something tremendously empowered something tremendously empowered something tremendously empowered >> and I share that story because that >> and I share that story because that >> and I share that story because that wasn't but you know 25 years ago or so wasn't but you know 25 years ago or so wasn't but you know 25 years ago or so what that means is that the things that what that means is that the things that what that means is that the things that we think are kind of out there now that we think are kind of out there now that we think are kind of out there now that are a little bit woo or a lot woo, I are a little bit woo or a lot woo, I are a little bit woo or a lot woo, I guarantee guarantee guarantee in 10 years we're going to understand in 10 years we're going to understand in 10 years we're going to understand the mechanisms. They'll be called the mechanisms. They'll be called the mechanisms. They'll be called something different or similar or maybe something different or similar or maybe something different or similar or maybe the same and people will be putting that the same and people will be putting that the same and people will be putting that to work and it's going to improve mental to work and it's going to improve mental to work and it's going to improve mental health in in a major way. In other health in in a major way. In other health in in a major way. In other words, the science catches up words, the science catches up words, the science catches up eventually, but the practices that work eventually, but the practices that work eventually, but the practices that work need to be talked about. And that's why need to be talked about. And that's why need to be talked about. And that's why I again I'm so grateful that you're I again I'm so grateful that you're I again I'm so grateful that you're willing to go there. I willing to go there. I willing to go there. I >> I think the reason there's skepticism so >> I think the reason there's skepticism so >> I think the reason there's skepticism so I'm a Raiki healer. I'm a crystal I'm a Raiki healer. I'm a crystal I'm a Raiki healer. I'm a crystal healer. I learned blackflower remedies healer. I learned blackflower remedies healer. I learned blackflower remedies and I don't talk about any of that stuff and I don't talk about any of that stuff and I don't talk about any of that stuff because I think there's no basis for it. because I think there's no basis for it. because I think there's no basis for it. Like maybe the energy healer but like so Like maybe the energy healer but like so Like maybe the energy healer but like so I've studied all kinds of things but I I've studied all kinds of things but I I've studied all kinds of things but I think the reason that people are so think the reason that people are so think the reason that people are so skeptical is because there's so much BS skeptical is because there's so much BS skeptical is because there's so much BS out there. So the reason I leaned into out there. So the reason I leaned into out there. So the reason I leaned into yoga and meditation are first of yoga and meditation are first of yoga and meditation are first of actually primarily because of certain actually primarily because of certain actually primarily because of certain personal experiences I had but those personal experiences I had but those personal experiences I had but those have the best evidence behind them and I have the best evidence behind them and I have the best evidence behind them and I think the real challenge right now so think the real challenge right now so think the real challenge right now so the reason I do it this way is because the reason I do it this way is because the reason I do it this way is because if you look at some of the really if you look at some of the really if you look at some of the really powerful techniques from meditation powerful techniques from meditation powerful techniques from meditation people can't wait like at least the people can't wait like at least the people can't wait like at least the people I work with they can't wait 20 people I work with they can't wait 20 people I work with they can't wait 20 years to elucidate the mechanisms you years to elucidate the mechanisms you years to elucidate the mechanisms you know when we're talking about sulpa and know when we're talking about sulpa and know when we're talking about sulpa and yoga nidra so you can get all the yoga nidra so you can get all the yoga nidra so you can get all the autonomic stuff, great. You can get some autonomic stuff, great. You can get some autonomic stuff, great. You can get some neuroscience stuff, maybe, right? That's neuroscience stuff, maybe, right? That's neuroscience stuff, maybe, right? That's kind of iffy. We don't really know. But kind of iffy. We don't really know. But kind of iffy. We don't really know. But then some of this other stuff, like I I then some of this other stuff, like I I then some of this other stuff, like I I think if people are not achieving what think if people are not achieving what think if people are not achieving what they want, they want, they want, what I encourage them to do is explore what I encourage them to do is explore what I encourage them to do is explore and be skeptical. Like don't just and be skeptical. Like don't just and be skeptical. Like don't just believe it, but try it. Right? So like believe it, but try it. Right? So like believe it, but try it. Right? So like like if you're doing cardiac coherence like if you're doing cardiac coherence like if you're doing cardiac coherence breathing, that's naughty should be, breathing, that's naughty should be, breathing, that's naughty should be, right? Alternate nostril breathing. You right? Alternate nostril breathing. You right? Alternate nostril breathing. You know, do it regularly the way that you know, do it regularly the way that you know, do it regularly the way that you were taught and then do it for eight were taught and then do it for eight were taught and then do it for eight seconds for the inhalation, 32 seconds seconds for the inhalation, 32 seconds seconds for the inhalation, 32 seconds for the hold and 16 seconds for the for the hold and 16 seconds for the for the hold and 16 seconds for the exhalation because 16 exhalation because 16 exhalation because 16 >> alternating nostrils. >> alternating nostrils. >> alternating nostrils. >> Yeah. Alternating nostrils. >> Yeah. Alternating nostrils. >> Yeah. Alternating nostrils. >> Can I just insert one thing? Some people >> Can I just insert one thing? Some people >> Can I just insert one thing? Some people will hear alternating nostril breathing will hear alternating nostril breathing will hear alternating nostril breathing of plugging uh nostril then the other of plugging uh nostril then the other of plugging uh nostril then the other and they'll go, "Oh my god, this is and they'll go, "Oh my god, this is and they'll go, "Oh my god, this is crazy." We had the guy who works on all crazy." We had the guy who works on all crazy." We had the guy who works on all faction and frankly breathing because faction and frankly breathing because faction and frankly breathing because the two go hand in hand. um Nome Soil the two go hand in hand. um Nome Soil the two go hand in hand. um Nome Soil and he explained that every 90 minutes and he explained that every 90 minutes and he explained that every 90 minutes around the clock there's a switch in the around the clock there's a switch in the around the clock there's a switch in the dominant nostril through which we dominant nostril through which we dominant nostril through which we breathe. You can observe this even if breathe. You can observe this even if breathe. You can observe this even if you have a deviated septum one will be you have a deviated septum one will be you have a deviated septum one will be more air will flow more readily than to more air will flow more readily than to more air will flow more readily than to the other and it's the alternation of the other and it's the alternation of the other and it's the alternation of parasympathetic dominant and sympathetic parasympathetic dominant and sympathetic parasympathetic dominant and sympathetic dominant breathing through the autonomic dominant breathing through the autonomic dominant breathing through the autonomic nervous system and so he's a nervous system and so he's a nervous system and so he's a physiologist and when he said that I physiologist and when he said that I physiologist and when he said that I thought okay this alternate nostril thought okay this alternate nostril thought okay this alternate nostril breathing thing like for so many years breathing thing like for so many years breathing thing like for so many years frankly I heard about this from the yoga frankly I heard about this from the yoga frankly I heard about this from the yoga community I thought like all right this community I thought like all right this community I thought like all right this seems a little wacky and here he's seems a little wacky and here he's seems a little wacky and here he's sitting exactly where you were where you sitting exactly where you were where you sitting exactly where you were where you are now excuse me and he said yeah are now excuse me and he said yeah are now excuse me and he said yeah there's absolutely absolutely a there's absolutely absolutely a there's absolutely absolutely a physiological basis for this. When you physiological basis for this. When you physiological basis for this. When you breathe through one nostril, you get a breathe through one nostril, you get a breathe through one nostril, you get a very different effect on the autonom very different effect on the autonom very different effect on the autonom nervous system than you do through the nervous system than you do through the nervous system than you do through the other nostril. And this is constantly other nostril. And this is constantly other nostril. And this is constantly alternating even if you're not plugging alternating even if you're not plugging alternating even if you're not plugging your nostril every 90 minutes from birth your nostril every 90 minutes from birth your nostril every 90 minutes from birth until death. There were certain things I until death. There were certain things I until death. There were certain things I would find in the yogic texts and then I would find in the yogic texts and then I would find in the yogic texts and then I I ran into this exact thing where I ran into this exact thing where I ran into this exact thing where there's I think they call it an there's I think they call it an there's I think they call it an altradian rhythm, altradian rhythm, altradian rhythm, >> right? That's that oh this is like a >> right? That's that oh this is like a >> right? That's that oh this is like a physiologic thing. And so I leaned physiologic thing. And so I leaned physiologic thing. And so I leaned towards the practices that were towards the practices that were towards the practices that were physiologically physiologically physiologically sound that there was some evidence for sound that there was some evidence for sound that there was some evidence for it because I was like, I'm not going to it because I was like, I'm not going to it because I was like, I'm not going to waste my time and like nothing's going waste my time and like nothing's going waste my time and like nothing's going to happen. I'm going to do the stuff to happen. I'm going to do the stuff to happen. I'm going to do the stuff that at least I'll get a physiologic that at least I'll get a physiologic that at least I'll get a physiologic benefit. And then as you go into benefit. And then as you go into benefit. And then as you go into advanced practices, like it's wild. And advanced practices, like it's wild. And advanced practices, like it's wild. And the really scary thing is that in my the really scary thing is that in my the really scary thing is that in my mind there's a lot of this stuff is like mind there's a lot of this stuff is like mind there's a lot of this stuff is like scientifically valid, but it's really scientifically valid, but it's really scientifically valid, but it's really hard to study. And then the really scary hard to study. And then the really scary hard to study. And then the really scary thing, the thing that bothers me the thing, the thing that bothers me the thing, the thing that bothers me the most is that I think there's a lot of most is that I think there's a lot of most is that I think there's a lot of stuff that's true that is not stuff that's true that is not stuff that's true that is not scientifically valid. I I I really think scientifically valid. I I I really think scientifically valid. I I I really think it's kind of like beyond what science is it's kind of like beyond what science is it's kind of like beyond what science is capable of measuring capable of measuring capable of measuring um at least now and in in the um at least now and in in the um at least now and in in the foreseeable future. foreseeable future. foreseeable future. >> Spirituality. >> Spirituality. >> Spirituality. >> Spirituality. And I think the simple >> Spirituality. And I think the simple >> Spirituality. And I think the simple simplest example of this is a thought. simplest example of this is a thought. simplest example of this is a thought. We have no scientific evidence of a We have no scientific evidence of a We have no scientific evidence of a thought. thought. thought. The only reason that we know that the The only reason that we know that the The only reason that we know that the amygdala is where we feel anxiety for is amygdala is where we feel anxiety for is amygdala is where we feel anxiety for is because we measure what was going on in because we measure what was going on in because we measure what was going on in the amydala and then we asked the the amydala and then we asked the the amydala and then we asked the person, "What are you feeling when this person, "What are you feeling when this person, "What are you feeling when this part of your brain lights up?" part of your brain lights up?" part of your brain lights up?" >> Well, you may be encouraged to learn >> Well, you may be encouraged to learn >> Well, you may be encouraged to learn that um the great Anna LMK, my colleague that um the great Anna LMK, my colleague that um the great Anna LMK, my colleague at Stanford, right? An MD and at Stanford, right? An MD and at Stanford, right? An MD and psychiatrist like you who wrote Dopamine psychiatrist like you who wrote Dopamine psychiatrist like you who wrote Dopamine Nation has a booking, amazing work. Nation has a booking, amazing work. Nation has a booking, amazing work. She's an amazing woman at the level of She's an amazing woman at the level of She's an amazing woman at the level of clinician, human being, just all around clinician, human being, just all around clinician, human being, just all around and such a pioneer. She's if you look and such a pioneer. She's if you look and such a pioneer. She's if you look back she's been 5 to 10 years ahead of back she's been 5 to 10 years ahead of back she's been 5 to 10 years ahead of everybody else in terms of her uh her everybody else in terms of her uh her everybody else in terms of her uh her understanding and beliefs about where understanding and beliefs about where understanding and beliefs about where we're going visav the neuroscience we're going visav the neuroscience we're going visav the neuroscience impact of social media etc. She has a impact of social media etc. She has a impact of social media etc. She has a book that's coming out later this year book that's coming out later this year book that's coming out later this year um on spirituality. M so serious um on spirituality. M so serious um on spirituality. M so serious scientists and clinicians like yourself, scientists and clinicians like yourself, scientists and clinicians like yourself, like Anna are starting to go there like Anna are starting to go there like Anna are starting to go there before we have the ratc monkey bat then before we have the ratc monkey bat then before we have the ratc monkey bat then clinical trial and human uh work done. clinical trial and human uh work done. clinical trial and human uh work done. >> So what I I love about spirituality >> So what I I love about spirituality >> So what I I love about spirituality personally, it scares me and it personally, it scares me and it personally, it scares me and it frustrates me, but what I like about it frustrates me, but what I like about it frustrates me, but what I like about it is it's the only scientific exploration is it's the only scientific exploration is it's the only scientific exploration that no one can do for you. So what what that no one can do for you. So what what that no one can do for you. So what what I love about it, so I I like learning. I love about it, so I I like learning. I love about it, so I I like learning. I'm not really like a researcher, but I'm not really like a researcher, but I'm not really like a researcher, but I'm a very like clinically oriented I'm a very like clinically oriented I'm a very like clinically oriented scientist, I guess you could say, or scientist, I guess you could say, or scientist, I guess you could say, or scienceoriented clinician. And it's it's scienceoriented clinician. And it's it's scienceoriented clinician. And it's it's the one thing that you can never like an the one thing that you can never like an the one thing that you can never like an experience of Shuna like we can you can experience of Shuna like we can you can experience of Shuna like we can you can you can look at like the brain scan of you can look at like the brain scan of you can look at like the brain scan of Shuna potentially, but to experience it Shuna potentially, but to experience it Shuna potentially, but to experience it to figure it out, you have to be the to figure it out, you have to be the to figure it out, you have to be the scientist. It is the only kind of scientist. It is the only kind of scientist. It is the only kind of subjective experience which is what subjective experience which is what subjective experience which is what spirituality is really about is spirituality is really about is spirituality is really about is attaining certain states is not attaining certain states is not attaining certain states is not something that is ever transmissible and something that is ever transmissible and something that is ever transmissible and that's why people are hesitant to talk that's why people are hesitant to talk that's why people are hesitant to talk about because we sound like crazy people about because we sound like crazy people about because we sound like crazy people you know it's like if I mentioned this you know it's like if I mentioned this you know it's like if I mentioned this technique can give you insight in your technique can give you insight in your technique can give you insight in your past lives like what this guy is insane past lives like what this guy is insane past lives like what this guy is insane but here's the struggle that I had but here's the struggle that I had but here's the struggle that I had meditating one day and then you have meditating one day and then you have meditating one day and then you have these memories these memories these memories you have you have memories but they're you have you have memories but they're you have you have memories but they're not from this life. And then it's like not from this life. And then it's like not from this life. And then it's like you're like, "What the hell is that?" you're like, "What the hell is that?" you're like, "What the hell is that?" And I'm not even saying that past lives And I'm not even saying that past lives And I'm not even saying that past lives exist. I want to be really clear about exist. I want to be really clear about exist. I want to be really clear about that. But for me, it was confusing. It's that. But for me, it was confusing. It's that. But for me, it was confusing. It's like really like destabilizing for your like really like destabilizing for your like really like destabilizing for your understanding of like what the world is, understanding of like what the world is, understanding of like what the world is, >> especially as a psychiatrist. >> especially as a psychiatrist. >> especially as a psychiatrist. >> Well, I wasn't a psychiatrist back then. >> Well, I wasn't a psychiatrist back then. >> Well, I wasn't a psychiatrist back then. >> And and and so then then it's like, >> And and and so then then it's like, >> And and and so then then it's like, okay, well, like now we have to figure okay, well, like now we have to figure okay, well, like now we have to figure this out. So if if people are like this out. So if if people are like this out. So if if people are like interested in scientific exploration, interested in scientific exploration, interested in scientific exploration, you know, I think one of the sad things you know, I think one of the sad things you know, I think one of the sad things about the world is like we've explored about the world is like we've explored about the world is like we've explored the surface, we figured it out, but but the surface, we figured it out, but but the surface, we figured it out, but but within every single one of us is a within every single one of us is a within every single one of us is a dimension of exploration that only you dimension of exploration that only you dimension of exploration that only you can do. You know, do you think when can do. You know, do you think when can do. You know, do you think when we're talking about samscara, sulpa, the we're talking about samscara, sulpa, the we're talking about samscara, sulpa, the unconscious parts of your our mind, unconscious parts of your our mind, unconscious parts of your our mind, these liinal states of consciousness, these liinal states of consciousness, these liinal states of consciousness, we can hear Andrew talk about it, but if we can hear Andrew talk about it, but if we can hear Andrew talk about it, but if you want to like be there, you have to you want to like be there, you have to you want to like be there, you have to go there. No one can go there for you. go there. No one can go there for you. go there. No one can go there for you. And that's ultimately what I think is And that's ultimately what I think is And that's ultimately what I think is like really cool about it. like really cool about it. like really cool about it. >> Man, >> Man, >> Man, you are one of a kind, I have to say. you are one of a kind, I have to say. you are one of a kind, I have to say. And I also have to say there's so many And I also have to say there's so many And I also have to say there's so many things that we didn't cover but that I things that we didn't cover but that I things that we didn't cover but that I would love to have you back to cover at would love to have you back to cover at would love to have you back to cover at some point soon. But I just want to say some point soon. But I just want to say some point soon. But I just want to say you're you're really one of a kind. I you're you're really one of a kind. I you're you're really one of a kind. I I've been you know kind of peppering our I've been you know kind of peppering our I've been you know kind of peppering our conversation with this from time to time conversation with this from time to time conversation with this from time to time but uh again the the degree and the but uh again the the degree and the but uh again the the degree and the depth to which you're able to think depth to which you're able to think depth to which you're able to think about the practical concerns that people about the practical concerns that people about the practical concerns that people have the the real problems the real have the the real problems the real have the the real problems the real challenges that they face right now. and challenges that they face right now. and challenges that they face right now. and then offer tools that are grounded in then offer tools that are grounded in then offer tools that are grounded in neuroscience, psychiatry, psychology, neuroscience, psychiatry, psychology, neuroscience, psychiatry, psychology, and also ancient practices um is just and also ancient practices um is just and also ancient practices um is just it's spectacular. I'm I have to say this it's spectacular. I'm I have to say this it's spectacular. I'm I have to say this is one of my favorite conversations I've is one of my favorite conversations I've is one of my favorite conversations I've ever had on or off the podcast. I'm I'm ever had on or off the podcast. I'm I'm ever had on or off the podcast. I'm I'm totally lit up by it and um so grateful totally lit up by it and um so grateful totally lit up by it and um so grateful for what you do. You're you're an for what you do. You're you're an for what you do. You're you're an amazing public educator and I just amazing public educator and I just amazing public educator and I just >> I can't thank you enough for coming to >> I can't thank you enough for coming to >> I can't thank you enough for coming to talk about these topics and I know that talk about these topics and I know that talk about these topics and I know that there's lots more that we could talk there's lots more that we could talk there's lots more that we could talk about and we will. Yeah. Um, I really about and we will. Yeah. Um, I really about and we will. Yeah. Um, I really want to extend my gratitude. It's it's want to extend my gratitude. It's it's want to extend my gratitude. It's it's been an amazing thing to hear you touch been an amazing thing to hear you touch been an amazing thing to hear you touch into these things and to offer practical into these things and to offer practical into these things and to offer practical tools about ego disillusion, about tools about ego disillusion, about tools about ego disillusion, about distress tolerance, to make that, you distress tolerance, to make that, you distress tolerance, to make that, you know, operational awareness to really know, operational awareness to really know, operational awareness to really define what that is, to talk about um define what that is, to talk about um define what that is, to talk about um unlearning is such a critical component unlearning is such a critical component unlearning is such a critical component of our health. The shiny meditation uh of our health. The shiny meditation uh of our health. The shiny meditation uh example and and I was able to get example and and I was able to get example and and I was able to get moments of it during that instruction moments of it during that instruction moments of it during that instruction even though it was the first time I've even though it was the first time I've even though it was the first time I've ever done it. Um ever done it. Um ever done it. Um so many people are going to benefit from so many people are going to benefit from so many people are going to benefit from this and I really want to encourage them this and I really want to encourage them this and I really want to encourage them to try these practices to explore just to try these practices to explore just to try these practices to explore just as you said there's really no uh there's as you said there's really no uh there's as you said there's really no uh there's really no substitute for that really no substitute for that really no substitute for that self-exloration just thank you self-exloration just thank you self-exloration just thank you >> thank you for having me you know Andrew >> thank you for having me you know Andrew >> thank you for having me you know Andrew I got to say you are also one of a kind. I got to say you are also one of a kind. I got to say you are also one of a kind. I feel like you could still go. I'm I'm I feel like you could still go. I'm I'm I feel like you could still go. I'm I'm wiped. wiped. wiped. >> I mean I I got more hours in if we need >> I mean I I got more hours in if we need >> I mean I I got more hours in if we need to but I want to be fair to our audience to but I want to be fair to our audience to but I want to be fair to our audience and to you. No, I mean I mean I I I I I and to you. No, I mean I mean I I I I I and to you. No, I mean I mean I I I I I can see that you've got more hours than can see that you've got more hours than can see that you've got more hours than you and and it's it's it's interesting. you and and it's it's it's interesting. you and and it's it's it's interesting. You know, I felt that gravity the moment You know, I felt that gravity the moment You know, I felt that gravity the moment you came into the room, but yeah, I mean you came into the room, but yeah, I mean you came into the room, but yeah, I mean you're you're really energetic. you're you're really energetic. you're you're really energetic. Um and and so it's been it's been Um and and so it's been it's been Um and and so it's been it's been awesome being here and and thank you so awesome being here and and thank you so awesome being here and and thank you so much. much. much. >> Thank you. Well, the energy is only >> Thank you. Well, the energy is only >> Thank you. Well, the energy is only partially intrinsic. It's also the partially intrinsic. It's also the partially intrinsic. It's also the consequence of of what you offered today consequence of of what you offered today consequence of of what you offered today and uh again this has been thrilling. So and uh again this has been thrilling. So and uh again this has been thrilling. So please come back again. please come back again. please come back again. >> Sure. Thank you for joining me for >> Sure. Thank you for joining me for >> Sure. Thank you for joining me for today's discussion with Dr. Aloc today's discussion with Dr. Aloc today's discussion with Dr. Aloc Kenogia. To learn more about his work, Kenogia. To learn more about his work, Kenogia. To learn more about his work, please see the links in the show note please see the links in the show note please see the links in the show note captions. If you're learning from and or captions. If you're learning from and or captions. If you're learning from and or enjoying this podcast, please subscribe enjoying this podcast, please subscribe enjoying this podcast, please subscribe to our YouTube channel. That's a to our YouTube channel. That's a to our YouTube channel. That's a terrific zerocost way to support us. 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For those of you that haven't heard, I have a new book that haven't heard, I have a new book that haven't heard, I have a new book coming out. It's my very first book. coming out. It's my very first book. coming out. It's my very first book. It's entitled Protocols, an operating It's entitled Protocols, an operating It's entitled Protocols, an operating manual for the human body. This is a manual for the human body. This is a manual for the human body. This is a book that I've been working on for more book that I've been working on for more book that I've been working on for more than 5 years, and that's based on more than 5 years, and that's based on more than 5 years, and that's based on more than 30 years of research and than 30 years of research and than 30 years of research and experience. And it covers protocols for experience. And it covers protocols for experience. 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