Top 10 Neuroscience-Backed Tips for a Stronger Brain | Wendy Suzuki and Amishi Jha

Key Takeaway

Your brain isn't fixed—it's constantly rewiring based on what you repeatedly do. Start with just 12 minutes of focused attention meditation four days a week, or 10 minutes of walking daily. These aren't add-ons to optimize—they're opportunities to change your default patterns. Stop multitasking (you're actually task-switching and depleting attention), build mental white space into your day, and remember: the daily choices you make today are shaping the brain you'll live with tomorrow.

Episode Overview

Neuroscientists Dr. Amishi Jha and Dr. Wendy Suzuki share the top 10 evidence-based strategies for maintaining brain health, emphasizing neuroplasticity—the brain's ability to change through experience. They discuss the synergistic benefits of meditation, exercise, sleep, and social connection, while offering practical minimum effective doses for each practice and addressing common barriers like optimization fatigue and multitasking.

Full Transcript

Transcript of Top 10 Neuroscience-Backed Tips for a Stronger Brain | Wendy Suzuki and Amishi Jha from 10% Happier. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

Dan Harris: Dr. Amishi Jha, Dr. Wendy Suzuki.  Welcome back to the show, both of you. Amishi Jha: It's great to be here. Dan Harris: Um, and, and thank you for, um,  agreeing this strange experiment where we,   uh, celebrate the 10th anniversary of this, uh, of  this show, which feels like I started yesterday. Amishi Jha: Amazing. Wendy Suzuki: Congratulations. Congratulations. That's, that's amazing. Dan Harris: Well, thanks. Um, okay. So  we're gonna talk about, uh, the top 10,   um, neuroscience, uh, backed tips for maintaining  a healthy brain.

Um, and, uh, tip number one,   uh, some, some of these tips will come from you as  individuals, but this first tip comes from both of   you, um, as a unit. Uh, and it is simply just to  understand that you can, uh, change your brain. Um, Amishii, lemme start with you. Uh, I  believe the term for this is neuroplasticity. Amishi Jha: Yes, that's absolutely right. And  first of all, just great to be here with you,   Dan, and with Wendy. I'm a, I'm a, I'm a fan, uh,  both as an academic and as a science communicator.   So wonderful to be here together.

When I think  about that term, neuroplasticity, it sounds like,   uh, um, something special, but in fact it  is essentially this understanding that,   broadly speaking, that things can  change as a function of experience. And in particular, this case, the brain can change  as a function of experience. And that is a very   powerful insight that can shape how we attempt  to experience and plan our lives with the idea.   I think for the topic of this conversation,  that if we make a dedicated effort to engage   in certain kinds of training, we can produce  reliable tractable changes in the brain that   suggests the brain can change so many ways to  do that, which I'm excited to talk about, but.

Dan Harris: Yeah. Well, I wanna get into some of  that, uh, some of the ways to do that. But, uh,   so Wendy, um, one, one of the, the main mechanisms  that you've talked about is exercise. Absolutely.   So I'd like to hear a little bit more about that  and anything else that comes to mind for you. Wendy Suzuki: Absolutely. I, I want to,  uh, send back the compliment to Amishii This is the first time we've met each other,  but, uh, of course I followed your work and,   uh, so great to be here with you and with  you Dan.

Um, exercise is one of the most   transformative. Brain plasticity, uh, uh,  promoters that we have, as I like to say,   every single time you move your body, it's like  you're giving your brain a wonderful bubble   bath of neurochemicals that include growth  factors that are at the heart of the change,   the anatomical changes that  we see in, uh, with exercise. Um. Stepping back for a moment about  the definition, this key definition   of neuroplasticity. Um, it's simply the idea that  your brain is not fixed. I think this is a really   important idea that everybody needs to understand  your brain.

Our brains are not fixed. Um,   our brains are constantly wiring themselves  around what, around what we repeatedly do. You do things like moving your body, giving your  brain this bubble bath of, uh, neurotrophins and,   and, um, dopamine and serotonin, uh, things that,  uh, improve your mood. You are gonna grow your   brain. You are going to have a higher level of  baseline mood, uh, mood. And that is, that is why   it's one of the most transformative things that  you can do to exercise your own brain plasticity.

Dan Harris: I think people can hear this  argument about neuroplasticity generally and   the importance of exercise specifically. I think  they can hear it in, in two ways at least. Uh,   one is that's incredibly good news, and  that's certainly the way I talk about it.   We all talk about it, is this is radically  good news in an era of so much bad news. The other way to hear it, uh, and I'll stay with  you on this, Wendy, for a second. The other way   to hear it is, dude, I, I have so much shit  to do and the the world is telling me I'll,   uh, I'll be better as soon as I, you know, uh, do  what my, the, the local influencer on Instagram is   telling me to do.

Or as soon as I look a certain  way, um, then I'll finally add my shit together. And so I'm never enough. Um, and so. What do  you say to the people in the latter camp of,   you know, I'm tired of, you  know, the optimizer argument? Wendy Suzuki: Um, I, I say  neuroplasticity is basically   biological. We evolved as beings that  move. Uh, I don't care if you have all   sorts of things to get done. You have to  walk, you have to move around every day. Most of us do use that.

Use the stairs,   use every moment that you have going to  the grocery store. Everybody has to go,   go do that. Um, um, it is powerful. Use that  for your advantage. It is not an added thing.   It's something that you can enhance what you're  already doing. So that's how I I approach it. Dan Harris: Do you have a, a, a take on  this because Yeah, I hear it all the time. I was just, I was being interviewed the other  night, um, uh, uh, uh, for some, a local NPR   station in Minnesota, and the host was quite.  Smart, uh, asked me this astute question of like,   I already feel like everybody's telling me I need  to do a million things in order to keep up.

And   now you're telling me, uh, you know, I can, I can  affect my brain, but, you know, it requires work. Amishi Jha: Yeah. Well, I'd say let's go  back to the definition or description we   gave of neuroplasticity, essentially, that  the brain will change through repeated,   uh, activity. And if you are saying  to yourself over and over again,   uh, life is tough. I'm overwhelmed, there's never  any time to do things that might advantage me. Just know that those repeated thoughts themselves  are a form of brain training.

And to be aware   of that and in some sense the journey with,  with, uh, at least from my perspective, um,   with mindfulness training, mindfulness meditation,  training. Is to start watching for the habits of   mind that already exist and understand that  those habits of mind are creating set points   within your brain and the way you feel and  act and behave and interact in the world. Um, and so to instead of thinking about what the  offer is here, whether it's physical exercise   or mindfulness training, or other forms of  contemplative practice, whether instead of   thinking of it as a burden, think of it as an  opportunity to change the default of how you   already function.

And as Wendy already alluded to,  this doesn't have to be a big, giant thing you do. It can be essentially integrated into  the way you move through your life with   slight adjustments. You know, so  I think you just mentioned this,   uh, Wendy. So take the stairs instead of the  elevator, but do that, uh, every time you   see an elevator look for the staircase. And  that's a small adjustment in terms of the,   uh, the way in which you in incorporate  physical activity into your day. But it can have a big impact if you  do it enough and repeatedly.

But I do   appreciate that burden of optimization  at this point in our modern life. Um,   and so I think it's worth actually acknowledging,  uh, that we need to lay off ourselves a little bit   to not have this giant ask of ourselves  over, over, and over and over again. And we can come to that a little bit about how  in some sense, even as it, as it has to do with   activities like mindfulness training and in  particular with my expertise and attention,   realizing how we may be taxing ourselves  unknowingly, that may be adding to that,   adding to that feeling of overwhelm, dread,  and um, like the, the weight of the world   is on our shoulders, for example, by how  we engage with social media day to day.

So that's a kind of a deeper conversation, but  I hope that address the point you're making,   which is, yeah, it can feel that way,  but it need not be taken that way. Dan Harris: The super helpful and I, I think  the bottom line is. Look, the, the bad news is,   um, if you want to be healthy in the, in the  holistic understanding of that term, healthy,   um, you are gonna have to do stuff. You know, that it, it, it just requires  some work. But the good news is, um,   we can do it in very manageable increments,  uh, and fit it into our busy lives.

And then   the subtle point, so this is bad news,  good news. And then a really subtle,   overarching point is just keep an eye on  like what your motivation for change is. If it's, um, out of self-directed aggression,  um, a sense of insufficiency. Well, yes, that is,   that is why we're so tired of optimization.  But if, if it really is out of a sense of,   um, uh. Personal affection for yourself  and wanting the best for yourself. Well,   well then you can strategy. The  good news can be operationalized.

You can find ways to make this work,   uh, in your life without it feeling awful.  How does that sound as a overly long summary? Wendy Suzuki: I think that sounds  good. Can we just add Dan, uh, I,   I wanna add this, 'cause I  hear this so much from, uh,   when I give talks around walking counts, people  think that we're talking about moving your body. They're thinking about, oh, I'm  never gonna be a marathon runner. No,   we're not talking about that. Moving your body,  including walking helps.

I like to cite the,   uh, kind least amount of exercise that has  been shown to have a significant effect.   10 minutes of walking can decrease  your depression and anxiety levels. Can everybody do 10 minutes of walking? I don't  even have to change my l shoes. It counts. So,   so, uh, um, um, remember that, that's  my tagline. 10 minutes of walking count. Dan Harris: That's awesome. Well, Wendy, I  wanna come back to you on exercise in a minute,   but lemme move to the second in the top 10  tips here.

Uh, and, and this is yours, AHI. And it, it has to do with something you've  already referenced, which is meditation. Um,   let's just say a little bit  more about, uh, the, the,   the three recommended types of meditation based  on your research. One is focused attention,   the other is open monitoring, and the third is  loving kindness. Can you break those down for us? Amishi Jha: Well, thankfully, the last 10 years  of your podcast have done such a service for   the world in popularizing a very accessible  understanding of those practices.

I wanna just   begin by acknowledging that and say thank you.  So I'm hoping Thank you. Yeah. Your audience   will already have been somewhat familiar  with all three of those forms of practice,   uh, given the opportunities that this,  uh, this, uh, context has provided. But I'll just, I wanna just, before I talk  about each of those, I wanna just tell you a   little bit about the perspective I've taken in  my coming to see those as very valuable forms   of contemplative practice for brain benefits,  for functional benefits in our holistic health,   as you already referenced.

So,  I study attention in my lab,   and this is this very powerful brain system  that is essentially like the boss of the brain. Wherever it is that we direct our attention,  the rest of the information processing in the   brain is impacted by that. And so one of the  challenges that we have with attention in our,   especially in our modern era, is that  it feels like we don't have enough of   it in our lives. That it's always sort of  slipping, slipping through our fingers. So what can we do to actually strengthen  attention, which requires understanding what   I really mean when I use that term attention.  Um, but to just break it down sort of very,   very, in a fast track way.

Attention  is essentially three different things.   And I like to use these metaphors that we can,  uh, anchor around to describe, uh, attention. Most broadly. It has to do, and  probably everybody understands this,   with focusing or directing our focus in  a dedicated way. And I use this metaphor   of thinking about attention as a flashlight.  Meaning that wherever it is that we direct that,   uh, focus, we get privileged access to  the information that's in front of us. In the same way, if you pointed  a flashlight in a darkened room,   that'd be the area that you'd be able to get  more granular, clear access to the information   in.

And that's a really important way to think  about attention. 'cause it gives us that sense   of agency. We can direct our attention.  The flashlight can also move around. But unfortunately, the flashlight can also  get yanked and pulled. So if you're walking   in a dark alley and you heard a strange  sound, all of a sudden, thankfully,   if you've got your flashlight, it's gonna  turn toward wherever you thought you heard   the sound coming from. So it can be  directed, but can also be captured. But that's just one way to think about attention.  There's actually two other ways that actually   relate to the three practices you mentioned.  The second way of thinking about attention   is almost the exact opposite of that narrow  directed flashlight.

And I use the metaphor   of a floodlight. This is formally the, uh,  I'm referring to the brain's alerting system. Keeping attention, not narrow and focused,  but broad and receptive to anything that's   arising moment by moment. We can only be alert  in this moment. We can't save it up for later.   So alerting is a very, very powerful thing, but  functions very differently than kind of narrow   and and focused. Then sort of the third way to  think about attention is a coordination function. This is something we call, uh,  executive functioning and very   much like the executive of any enterprise.  This system's job is to organize, manage,   monitor what's going on.

We wanna make sure that  what we are doing matches the goals we have,   and if it's not the case to course correct  or behavior does or update the goal. So it's more relevant for the context that  we're in. I use the metaphor of a juggler   there. The idea that we are, we are actually  holding a lot of balls in the air and ensuring   that none of them drop. Of course, this  juggler system directs the other two so   that there's a coordination between various  forms of attention to function properly.

Now going back to the topic of our  conversation today of brain health,   it ends up that these various metaphors  of attention that I've used also overlap   with known brain systems that are  distinct but interrelated. One of   the things from my work that led me to,  let's just start with focused attention. The very first of the three that you  mentioned, mindfulness practices. Um, one of   the things that I was interested in understanding  is how can we provide people with short exercises   they could do every day that might allow us to  engage all three of these forms of attention.   And so if we think about what the instructions are  for a focused attention practice, it's typically   something like, um, you know, if you wanna do  it as a stillness, practice lower or close your   eyes and pick an anchor for a period of time where  you're gonna do this practice where you're going.

Actively and on purpose, pay  attention. And it could be very,   uh, often it's breath related sensations. So you  could think of it as taking that flashlight and   directing it to breath related sensations, whether  that's the coolness of air in your nostrils or   your abdomen moving up and down. Whatever it is,  it's very specific and your directing focus there. The second instruction of a focused  attention practice though, is yes,   keep your attention focused on breath related  sensations. And when you notice that your mind   has wandered, gently return it.

Right?  So that's sort of the second, uh, uh,   uh, emphasis is notice it. And the third piece  of the practice is redirect it back, refocus. That noticing component is very much like this  alerting system being active. You're noticing   what's happening right now. And that can be  what's happening in the world around you,   or in this case, when we're practicing  noticing what's arising. Are you on   the, uh, are you on the target of your  dedicated focus for this practice? Or have you mind wandered away? We're engaging  the alerting system when we're doing a,   a focused attention practice.

And then  of course, when we refocus, we're,   we're questioning, ah, is my action and my  goal aligned right now? No. I'm supposed   to be focusing on the breath and I'm thinking  about lunch or my next vacation, bring it back. And so this is, this is why I actually  refer to the focused attention practice   as a pushup for the mind, and in particular  a pushup for the attention system because   through the simple yet elegant practice,  simple, not meaning that it's simple to do,   but at least the three steps  are pretty straightforward.

Focus, notice, redirect, engage all three systems  of attention. And going back to what we were   saying about neuroplasticity, the idea is that  if you do that practice repeatedly, you might   actually strengthen all three of those systems.  So that's why focused attention is kept in there.   Open monitoring is a practice that is emphasizing  not so much about the flashlight and moving it   around and redirecting it, but more about this  kind of alerting system or really floodlight. With the instruction being, uh,  for the period of time you're   gonna do this practice.

It's not about  anchoring on a particular body sensation,   but really anchoring on whatever it is that  arises in this moment without really going   in and engaging in it. So actually trying  to not have your flashlight come into play. Staying broad and receptive, allowing the  arising and passing away of sensory experience,   thoughts, feelings, emotions.  And I often describe this,   uh, uh, as sort of the river of thought. Like  you're sitting on a riverbank and you allow and   see things coming and going down the river.  Uh, in terms of your conscious experience.

This is a practice in which that,  uh, uh, floodlight really gets to do   its job of sort of steady, stable, alert to  whatever's happening. And here you'd engage   the executive functioning when you're not  doing that, when you've actually gone and   chased a particular thing down the river, then  you're like, oh, I've using my flashlight here. That's not the intention. Pullback broad. And  stable. And then when it comes to loving kindness   practice, which, uh, again, you know, we've had  the world's experts, expert teachers and friends   of ours like Sharon Salzberg, uh, here to guide  your, your audience, which I've loved loving   kindness.

Practice is broadly speaking, a practice  of well wishing toward ourselves and others. And the reason that this ends up making this,  uh, a trio of exercises is because in some sense,   it is the culmination of what we can use  our flashlight and floodlight for, to,   in some sense cultivate the capacity  to connect with ourselves and our,   and our well intentions, um, as well  as the well wishes toward other people. So that's why it makes, uh, up conceptually  why. And then in practice, we found all three   practices when engaged for about, uh,  12 minutes, uh, as a single practice,   four days a week, uh, we see reliable  benefits to the brain's attention system.

Dan Harris: Let me just double click on that.  The, the i, the the minimum effective dose. Yes. Anish. Because we, we heard Wendy talk about  minimum effective dose for exercise. And we, and   we're about to take a deep dive on exercise A  after I, uh, get finished interrogating you. Um,   the minimum effective dose on meditation,  according to your research is 12 minutes a day,   four to five days a week, a com, uh, and  combining focused attention, open monitoring. And loving. And kindness. Amishi Jha: Yes. And it's not about, um.

According  to my research, it's really regarding a focus on   what you might do for a minimum effective  dose to strengthen attention. So you might   have a different prescription of how long  you need to practice for, if you have a   different target lowering blood pressure,  for example, or improving your wellbeing. Those numbers may change. But for  the purposes of my, my own research,   it has been on offering practices that  are intended to strengthen attention with   the question being how much do you have to do?  And when you say combining all three of those,   it's essentially not combining  within one period of 12 minutes,   but really combining the use of those over the  course of a four week program, for example.

Got it. So the focused attention practice is  every other practice we, it's a through line,   and then in week one, they're  only doing focused attention.   Second week is body scan, which is another  form of using, uh, focused attention,   but now directing it to body sensations in a  systematic way. Third week is open monitoring. Fourth week is connection  or loving kindness practice. Dan Harris: Man. One of the biggest blockers of  happiness and peace of mind for me is worrying   about money. Financial security is really  important. It's hard to get anything done   if you're just spinning out about what's going  on with your finances.

We've all been there,   and that's what I want to tell you about  one of our sponsors today, gain Bridge. They offer financial products with a guaranteed  rate, and I wanna emphasize that word,   guaranteed. You're not guessing, you're  not refreshing an app wondering what   happened overnight. You know exactly what  growth you're gonna get right from the   start. You choose the term. There are no  hidden fees and it's refreshingly simple. They have options for whatever stage you're in.  One that's great for saving toward a specific   goal, a house travel your kid's future, and  another design for retirement planning.

The   idea is that you set it up and then you don't  have to think about it. That's the peace of mind   part. It's not only about growing your money, it's  about releasing an element of financial anxiety. You know exactly how much.  You get on with your life   gain bridge. Let your money work for you. Learn  more@gainbridge.com. Rates subject to change. It's my job on this show to recommend products  that I personally like and enjoy. But even more   important than my endorsement is when my  wife endorses something.

Because Bianca is   a discerning customer and she loves Warby Parker.  She has many, many pairs of Warby Parker. Glasses,   including one pair that she literally  just has on her person all the time. She loves them because the shopping experience is  easy and seamless because they make high quality   stuff and because the price is right. Once  you buy from Warby Parker, you realize how   much easier they've made the entire process.  Their virtual try on is a total game changer.   You can literally try on glasses from your phone  before you buy, just point your camera and boom.

You can see tons of frames on  your face in real time. Right now,   buy one prescription pair and get  20% off Any additional prescription   pairs@warbyparker.com and. Slash  Happier. That's 20% off additional   prescription pairs when you go to W-A-R-B-Y  parker.com. Warby parker.com/ Happier. Dan Harris: Thank you Amishi much  more from you in a second. Um,   but let's talk to Wendy about exercise. Wendy Suzuki: Yeah. Dan Harris: Um. Let's just  say a little bit more about,   you talked about walking 10 minutes is  as a minimum effective dose, but what if,   what about if we're like one notch more ambitious?  What, what else would be a minimum effective dose?

Wendy Suzuki: So there's something for  everybody here. No matter what age you are,   no matter what fitness level you are,  every single time you move your body,   you, you get some benefit. And so, um, I  can tell you some of the results from my   own studies. Let's say you haven't been moving  a lot, you're an adult, you haven't been moving   a lot less than 30 minutes a week for the  last three months is defined as low fit. Um, how much do you have to move to get  not just mood benefits, which are the,   uh, perhaps most immediate benefits that  you get, um, but other benefits, uh, um,   those brain plasticity benefits, the benefits  that change the brain's anatomy, physiology,   and function.

Let me just pause for  a second. What are those benefits? Exercise can actually help you grow brand  new brain cells in the brain's hippocampus,   critical for memory and more synapses in the  prefrontal cortex. That is so critical for   the meditation and attention, uh, effects  and, and different kinds of attention that   Amishi was just talking about. That is the  brain plasticity benefits of, of exercise. And so you don't get that, I'm sorry to  say you're, you don't get that level with   10 minutes of walking. Let me be  clear.

Um, what do you need to get   those kinds of effects? You need to get the  activation and the flow of a growth factor,   BDNF into your bloodstream that goes up  through your brain, through your blood   brain barrier and into these brain areas, the  hippocampus and the prefrontal cortex that. All the research shows, including  my own takes, aerobic activity,   any activity that gets your heart rate up. And  so you, your readers want numbers. How much,   what kind? So I can tell you that a group of, um,  low-fi adults went.

To 45 minute spin classes,   two to three times a week. They didn't  make it. We asked them three times a week. They made it like 2.4 times a week for three  months. And they started to see significant   changes in their baseline, not just mood, we  expected that, but baseline attention functions,   their ability to shift and focus attention got  significantly better. And their memory capacity,   their memory functions dependent  on the hippocampus got better. So it's not nothing, but uh, it's not as easy  as popping a pill.

But, but that gives a, a, a,   um, a flavor for what you need  to do to go from lofi to, uh,   and actually changing my brain in my, uh, uh,  and, and my hippocampal and prefrontal function. Dan Harris: And you have a couple of tips, Wendy,   for folks who, um, struggle with  maintaining an exercise habit. Uh, one of, one tip is to keep it fun.  Yeah. And, and this is a related tip,   uh, tip number two is to do it with other people. Wendy Suzuki: Absolutely.

Um, I always,  I, I think Amishi was saying this,   start with what you're already doing.  Uh, hopefully what you enjoy doing,   enjoy walking with your friends. Make that  a part of the, uh, uh, of the exercise. Start small. Uh, again, people are so worried  that walking doesn't count. It does count. Uh,   walk a little bit more, park a little bit  farther away. Walk to the next subway,   subway, SA station. I'm saying that 'cause I  live in New York City, and that's a great way   to get more walking in.

Um, so many easy  ways that don't take up too much time. Maybe 10 more minutes will, will, uh, uh, get  more exercise in. So, yeah, make it fun. Uh,   make it short, make it communal. All these things  will help you get more movement into your life. Dan Harris: Okay, Wendy, staying with  you. Lemme just reset for the listener   here. We're, we're, we're working through the,   uh. Top 10 neuroscience backed tips for a Healthy  Brain with Doctors Amishi, John, Wendy Suzuki. And, uh, we've worked through  the first three tips.

One,   understand your brain can change. Two,  meditate, three exercise. Mm-hmm. Uh,   tip number four, uh, Wendy, I'm gonna  stay with you. Yeah. Uh, is sleep. Wendy Suzuki: Mm. Dan Harris: Yes. Uh, give us the  top line information on sleep. Wendy Suzuki: So the core idea  about sleep is that sleep is   your neural maintenance every single night. Um, uh, I like to say that sleep is  the overnight board meeting for your   brain. What happens every night in sleep  is that all the memories that you took in,   uh, on the day before get strengthened  during sleep.

You don't have good   sleep. Not surprising. Your memory for what  happened the previous day is not very good. The other, uh, uh, to add on to EMI's wonderful  metaphors, I'll add my own metaphor for sleep,   which is people don't realize that the,  one of the most powerful things that   happens during sleep is that you,  you, you clean up all those, um,   cellular metabolites for all that activity that  your, your brain cells are doing during the day. Um, it, they are, are, uh, uh, spewing out  metabolites, like the garbage that you,   uh, put on your, on your, uh, front stoop to  be cleaned out.

And, uh, I give the metaphor,   uh, of a little, um, uh, garbage truck  going to all the billions of synapses every   night and cleaning up all that garbage. What  happens if you only get four hours of sleep? Well, a whole lot of garbage is left  on the side of the sidewalk. And what   do you feel like the next day you feel  like your brain is full of garbage? So,   uh, I think it works on, on several different  levels. Um, you need it to strengthen your memory.   You need it to clean up those metabolites  and to wake up with that fresh, clean,   uh, um, uh, minty smelling brain,  uh, uh, to, to get to your next day.

And, um, it, uh, I think people feel this. We  are all sleep deprived. We know what it feels   like to finally get a good night's sleep. This  is what's happening. You're allowing your brain   to do that overnight, neural maintenance. And  it's so important for every single one of us. Dan Harris: Just add some personal color here. Um. I was in the hospital yesterday with  my dad. It was a total false. Carl, he's   fine. It was a total false alarm. He's totally  fine. Um, but my dad, who's, uh, about to be 82,   uh, uh, did everything right really throughout  his life when it comes to, uh, exercise.

He ran   marathons before marathons were cool. Um, he  was a, he was a kind of high powered doctor. Um, very impressive, very kind man. Uh, but he  got dementia. Uh, I and his doctors believe, and,   and my wife, who's a doctor also believe.  And this happened to her. Her father too,   interestingly, who was also a doctor,  he got, they both got dementia because   they had untreated sleep apnea. In other  words, they weren't getting enough sleep. Um, and for both of these men who were both  athletes and both physicians and both got   dementia, they were, they were really not  sleeping for many years of their lives.   You would sleep a little bit and then just be  woken up because they were essentially choking   from sleep apnea.

So this is a long way of  saying you can do everything else right,   and if you're not sleeping,  it can go poorly for you. Wendy Suzuki: Dan, can I just add, my favorite  tagline for sleep is that you cannot biohack   your way out of chronic sleep deprivation.  It is fundamental. You just need it. So that   is how critical it is for all of us, for good  long-term brain health and brain plasticity. Dan Harris: Is there a minimum effective dose? Wendy Suzuki: I mean, uh, um, I, I go  with the average eight hours is good.

Mm-hmm. Uh, my own personal sleep experiment  happened during the pandemic when I decided,   okay, I'm gonna actually see how much sleep  that I really need. Uh, uh, it seemed like,   uh, um, I wanted to do that experiment where if  you could sleep, uh, where you slept long enough,   where you wake up on your own without the, um,  without the alarm clock, what would that be? And I was six to seven and I needed  eight. And so, ever since the pandemic,   I have given myself eight. And I, I  feel it.

I absolutely feel it. So,   um, how many, how many of us are below our, our,  uh, optimum sleep? Um, and it makes a difference   as you've just, your, your example from, from  your father, and your father-in-law suggests. Dan Harris: Indeed. Okay. So it leads inexorably  to the next question, which is, okay, so how do I,   how do I get more sleep? You have a bunch of  tips. I'm just gonna read them to you, Wendy,   and you can hold forth on any, you believe, uh,  uh, FE would benefit from further explication.

Um,   so practice screen hygiene, approaching bedtime  practice a wind down ritual approaching bedtime. Mm-hmm. Reduce or eliminate alcohol  approaching bedtime. Yeah. Reduce hydration,   approaching bedtime so you're not  getting up and peeing. Um, uh,   and finally build up sleep  pressure during the day. Wendy Suzuki: Mm-hmm. Yes. So build up sleep  pressure during the day. I think I'll, I'll,   uh, I'll start there because people don't  appreciate, um, the fact that, uh, the best   way to feel really sleepy at 9:00 PM is to get up  at 5:00 AM and, and build up that sleep pressure.

It's not rocket science, it is just  how many hours have you been awake   and if you let yourself sleep to 10,  11 o'clock, uh, in the morning, well,   you are gonna be up until one o'clock at night.  And if you get eight hours with that schedule,   that's fine. But often, uh, we, we. Shorten,  shorten our actual, um, sleep times. Um, I'll, I'll bring in that I've been  having, uh, uh, first year students in, in   the College of Arts and Science at NYU, do  personal sleep and meditation experiments.   And Amishi, you will, uh, be happy to know  that they were all very curious about doing,   um, meditation, trying meditation,  seeing what it did.

Um, they did   exactly what you are recommending about 12  min, eight to 12 minutes guided meditation. They all chose that they found their  favorite YouTube guided meditation   video. And what I found was surprises in  how long they slept, how well they slept,   how good they felt the next day.  Several of them saying that it,   it improved their social interactions the next  day, which we know are so good for your brain. Um, you ask them to actually. Use the  science in their life and really good   things come out of it.

So, um, that  was, that was really exciting to see. Dan Harris: Amishi, I miss you. Uh,  but I'm gonna do one more tip with,   with Wendy and then I'll come  back to you. I'm right here. I'm Amishi Jha: loving this. Dan Harris: Okay. Thank you. You're a good sport. Um, I, I will say before we leave sleep, just,  uh, again, me interjecting with personal,   um, n of one, uh, laboratory data here,  but, um, I have done a lot of work,   um, practicing screen hygiene before bedtime.  Mm-hmm.

Really putting my phone away for an hour   or two or more before I go to bed. Uh, and the  other is, I, I really do have a wind down ritual. Um, beautiful of that basically entails,  uh, doing some walking meditation and   taking a, a warm shower. Those have  both helped me a lot. Um, but Wendy,   I want to get to tip five. Uh, and  this, this, for this. I'm, I'm also,   I'm gonna stay with you and you, you  mentioned it. Uh, yeah. But it bears a lot   more discussion and that is social connection  as a way to, uh, increase our brain health.

Absolutely. So please say more. Wendy Suzuki: Yeah. So loneliness,  uh, which is up all around the world,   is a biological stressor. Um, it  is affecting us more and more. The   pandemic didn't help being locked in  our bedrooms sometimes either teaching   classes. If you're, uh, MHI and I are taking  classes, um, it. Increased our, our stress. People don't always link those two. Loneliness is  a biological stressor. And why? Because we, as,   um, human primates evolved to be in a social  context. We evolved to socially connect with   each other.

It's good for our brains, we  crave it. Um, I'm not saying that, you know,   everybody needs sometimes downtime.  You can't be at a party all the time. But, um, um, when we start to feel lonely, I am  missing human company. That is when it becomes a   stressor. Um, so, so, um. A lot of the work at  universities, not just mine, but so many are,   um, reintroducing activities that bring students  together and get them to socialize in, uh,   a way that was more natural before the pandemic,  but, but needs a little bit of extra help.

And you see the benefits there. There's a,  uh, lack of social skills there sometimes,   uh, but quickly learned. And, um,  you see the decrease in stress.   You see the belonging coming in. You feel  the uh, um, uh, um, the, the pull of of, uh,   having support from your fellow, um, um, fellow  students in this case. But, uh, substitute in,   uh, worker, office worker, uh,  club member, whatever you want. Um, so helpful. And so, uh, such a beautiful  practice to increase your positive brain   plasticity. That is increasing the  social connection in your life.

Dan Harris: Amishi, is there any, um. Evidence  that loving kindness meditation, which we've,   um, discussed already, which ag  again, for the uninitiated involves   envisioning a series of beings  or people or animals and sending,   uh, good vibes like maybe happy,  safe, healthy, live with ease. Any evidence that this, uh, practice can  increase our, uh, um, social connection quotient? Amishi Jha: Yeah, absolutely. In fact, the entire,  uh, suite of practices we were describing show   positive support. One of the studies we actually  did during the pandemic was with older adults,   because again, at that point they  were more vulnerable to the COVID-19.

Um, and we were concerned  about them. So we did a, a,   a research study during that time where  we offered them. A series of practices,   including the three that we were just  describing. And what we found was not only   were their sort of mood was protected, but the  loneliness level that they reported decreased. So it is, uh, and that's just  in that particular context,   but there are now growing number of studies  that suggest even without actual engagement,   holding yourself and practicing the, in this, in  these ways, um, holding yourself with that care   in the context of loving kindness and others can  reduce the distress associated with loneliness.

Dan Harris: Wendy just did this awesome  run of three tips there, exercise, sleep,   and connection, but meditation actually can work  in conjunction with and amplify all of these. Amishi Jha: Yeah, absolutely. And  I think there are many connections   between the two. So, uh, to start out,  let's just start out with sleep. Uh,   since that was a really nice topic that was  just described, when you talk to folks about   what the challenges are to falling asleep and  staying asleep, oftentimes it is what the mind   is doing, whether it's collaborating or  battling you as you attempt to do this.

And while we often, at least in the work that we  do, describe mindfulness training in particular   as a way to strengthen attention, meaning for  our ability to be attentive in our lives. This,   these practices can also actually help us fall  asleep. And there is growing support that,   um, uh, sort of the sleep  quality can be benefited by. By mindfulness training.  And if you think about it,   uh, going back to that sort of  flashlight metaphor of attention,   if what's happening as you're attempting to fall  asleep is the thoughts are racing, the flashlight   is just like all over the place.

Getting pulled  here and pulled there. So there is no quiet or   calm that might allow these other processes  to sort of take root so you can fall asleep. How can we give ourselves an assist? So oftentimes  we will, and even if we don't, uh, explicitly tell   folks, they will spontaneously, uh, figure this  out, that doing a short practice can actually   aid in the ability to fall asleep. Whether it's  a short, uh, focused attention practice or a body   scan, we're actually going through systematically  and, um, focusing on various body parts.

So just wanted to say that that practicing  can actually facilitate sleep quality. But   the other thing that's come out recently, and  this is really sort of new stuff. Has to do   with that. I love your metaphor of the garbage  truck, uh, uh, uh, sort of cleaning system for   the brain. I mean, that's much more eloquent  than what I, what I describe it as, which is   like there's a lot of brain poop and just like  your digestive system similar, gonna get it out. Um, the same thing is happening and  essentially it's very interesting 'cause,   you know, for a long time, um, we didn't know,  like why is it that the brain has this sort of   rhythmic low frequency oscillations as, as  certain in, during certain stages of sleep.   And now we're thinking that it may actually  be structural if all, if the brain is kind   of pulsating in a, in a way you could think  about it almost like the way you might think.

Your large intestine has to have muscular  movements to actually allow drainage to   happen in that sense. So there's a term  and it's, uh, not to get too jargony,   but it's called glymphatic drainage, which  is essentially, uh, this garbage truck or,   um, or brain poop getting. Pushed outta  the brain. There are recent studies   that suggest that practicing mindfulness  meditation helps with glymphatic drainage. So the, and these are just opening up more  questions about the relationship between   sleep and things like mindfulness. So I can't  tell you what all the potential mechanisms are   that would lead to that, but I wanted to tell  you that is some recent work.

So sleep and, and   mindfulness practice, um, contemplative practice,  very beneficial when it comes to exercise. It's also the case that there  is a, a two for quality,   meaning you got one thing will benefit  you, the other thing will benefit you,   put 'em together and it's wonderful, uh, kind of  almost synergistic benefit. And I think, Wendy,   you were describing a study that you did with your  students in which they had the option to do both. Mm-hmm. What we know is that when you compare  sort of exercise alone to mindfulness.

Infused   exercise, if you will, is that a lot of  the kind of aversive aspects of exercise,   meaning that feeling of like, I just can't  go on if it's a very intensive workout,   um, or I don't wanna do it. So the initiation  and maintenance of an exercise, um,   engagement period are really kind of dialed down  if you pair it with mindfulness, uh, practice. Because in some sense what you're doing is  anchoring people to the moment to moment   experience they're having, and then all of those  sort of judgements regarding what this experience   is that might derail you from continuing the  actual engagement in the exercise are softened.   Um, so there is a real benefit known between, uh,  comparing exercise with and without mindfulness.

Also, what happens when you compare, um,  uh, when you put them head to head, uh,   meaning what happens when you have  mindfulness training versus exercise   Well. More so than saying one is superior than  the other, which does not seem to be the case   because both are in many ways, even though they're  happening in different, through different roots,   as Wendy said, you know, whether this, I love the  way you describe it, the brain bubble bath of,   uh, of, of, um, the right kind  of, uh, chemicals to benefit.

Um, the same kind of systems are getting  targeted and benefited that have to do with   these brain networks that I've already kind of  alluded to. The, the ability to, uh, regulate,   control and regulate your attention, this juggler  I was describing, or, um, uh, the dialing down   of brain networks tied to sort of internal  thoughts or ruminations and mind wandering. So we see a lot of the same brain signatures when  we, um, compare them to each other and actually   when we combine them, um, together in terms  of the, uh, the strength of the benefit that's   seen.

So I think there's many ways we could  start, uh. As, as Wendy described, you know,   in the same way that you can decide to take a walk  or, or incorporate more walking into your day,   uh, there's a growing aspect of what  we're thinking about with regard to   contemplative training that has this sort of  real world enactment of mindfulness practices. And I love the way you've described  it, sort of meditation in the wild,   right? Or, or mindfulness in the wild.  This notion that it may not have to be   a formal practice, but there are ways in  which we can have that present centered,   sort of non-judgmental quality of our mind be  incorporated into the way we live our lives.

So if we think about exercise and mindfulness,   um, or contemplative practice as, uh, two levers,  we can pull, we can pull them separately, we can   have them have a double whammy of, uh, using  them together. We can incorporate them formally   as formal periods of practice and informally  in the day-to-day functioning of our lives. Dan Harris: This episode is sponsored by  Better Help. Financial Stress can affect   us more than we know. As many of you know, I  went through a very stressful separation from   my co-founders at a meditation app that  I'm no longer associated with.

Anyway,   that whole process was incredibly stressful  for me, especially the financial parts of it. And if this is true for me, as somebody  who's honestly extremely privileged,   it's gotta be true for so many people. In  fact, 88% of Americans uh, reported feeling   some form of financial stress at the start of  this year. Money worries often bring anxiety,   sleep disruption, even depression, and they're one  of the leading sources of conflict for couples. If this is an issue for you, therapy can  really help. I know that as I was going   through my period of protracted financial anxiety,   talking to my therapist was a lifesaver.

Therapy  can help you unpack your relationship with money,   which is crucial to understand and  to build healthier coping strategies. Better help therapists work according to a strict.  Code of conduct and are fully licensed in the US   They do the initial matching work so you  can focus on the therapy goals that you   have. They give you a short questionnaire  that helps you identify your needs and   preferences, and they've got more than  12 years of experience and an industry   leading match fulfillment rate, which means  they typically get it right the first time.

And if you're not happy with your  match, you can switch to a different   therapist at any time. When life feels  overwhelming, therapy can help. Sign   up and get 10% off@betterhelp.com slash  Happier. That's better hlp.com/ Happier. okay, let's move to tip number six, uh, and  Amishi, I'm gonna stay with you for this. Um,   this is really good advice, hard to do,  but really good advice. Stop multitasking. Amishi Jha: Yes. Yes. So, let's first like,  describe what we mean when we usually say   that term, multitasking. The idea is that we can  effectively, for those of those that choose to   do this, engage in multiple, potentially  demanding tasks simultaneously, right?

That's the ideas. Like I can have the, I  can be having a conversation and checking   my email and reading this article,  and, and if you talk to students,   oftentimes they, uh, they think that they're doing  all three effectively when unfortunately they're   not doing any of those effectively. Um, and part  of the reason multitasking needs to be sort of,   uh, actively and effortfully not  approached as a good thing to do,   but is actually a bad thing that you shouldn't  do, is because the way the brain functions,   and in particular the way the attention system  functions in those metaphors I gave for attention.

And going back to that flashlight idea, I didn't  say we have flashlights of attention. We have a   flashlight, meaning there is a singular aspect to  our ability to focus. What people think it means   when you multitask, as I described, is that  I've got three flashlights or four or five,   and they're all pointing in different  directions and they're all doing their thing. That is not what actually happens. So  even the term multitasking is a myth. What   we're actually doing is task switching,  meaning we're engaging that flashlight,   we're disengaging it, we're moving it  over here, we're pulling it back.

Um,   and that feature of engaging and disengaging  attention is one of the best ways. If you continue to do that a lot, that you  can deplete your attentional capacity. So   you want to really not be multitasking  because what you don't wanna do is drain   your attentional capacity through forcing it to  task switch over and over again. And instead,   what you wanna do as much as possible is monotask. Now what I mean by that is just essentially  do one thing at a time. And you know,   there are many groups we work with, many, uh,  communities and professionals where they say   that's just not possible.

You know, I have to  be, I have to have the background, um, uh, uh,   input, you know, from a police officer. I can't  just turn it off and do whatever else I'm doing. Or if I'm a military service member, a  lot, you know, firefighter, whatever it is,   a lot of these tactical professionals that  we work with in my, in my lab's research,   and I would say absolutely you can't do  that. You need to be attentive to that.   But when you can monotask and be aware that if  you are putting yourself in a situation where   there will be this con competition, uh,  for multiple inputs of, uh, what you may   need to be doing simultaneously, that you will be  vulnerable, you'll be vulnerable to being slower.

In any of the things that you're doing and  more prone to making mistakes. So just having   that in the back of your mind, it's like I'm in  this multitasking context 'cause I have to be,   I better watch a little bit more 'cause  I'm gonna be more vulnerable to errors and,   and being slow. So that's why the  request is monotask when you can. And by the way, just to be  very clear on this point,   remember what I said about the flashlight  is not just that it can be directed,   but it can be pulled.

So one way you can ensure  that you are monotasking is when you're sitting   there with the dedicated intention of focusing  on something, turn off all the notifications,   you know, quiet the cell phone for the  period of time that you're doing that. Because what, what those alerts are doing  is it is yanking the flashlight. So now   all of a sudden you didn't intend to have  another task, but you were all of a sudden   in another task that you're gonna be engaged  in. Whether it's as simple as just looking to   see who called you.

Or actually getting  on and starting to text the person back. It is, is a pull away from your intended focus. Dan Harris: I'm still working on this one. Um,  but it's, it's so good to have the reminder.   Okay. Staying with you, Eshi. Tip number seven,  practice meta awareness. What does that mean? Amishi Jha: Right. So I think I  would put that, uh, sort of plainly,   uh, in the category of pay  attention to your attention. The term meta awareness is essentially  this capacity that we cultivate through   mindfulness practice to be aware of the  contents and processes that are at play   in our moment to moment experience.

So we  are aware of our awareness, meta aware,   and the reason I say pay attention to your  attention is because that's a good way in. It's a good way to kind of check in with what is  going on right now. Um, even checking in with your   goals. You know, I set out to do this thing. Am  I actually doing it? Is it the right thing to be   doing? What ends up happening in folks that engage  in, in mindfulness training is that the simple   practice, like we talked about of the, of, um,  of the focused attention practice, for example,   where you're focusing on the breath, noticing  mind wandering, and then refocusing as needed.

That noticing piece is what can be  cultivated into meta awareness. 'cause   while you're doing the practice, it's  sort of the checking in of like, Hey,   where am I right now? I wanna be on the breath,  where am I? But that kind of broadens you out   to be monitoring in an ongoing way what is  happening. And that can be a real superpower. Oftentimes when things happen and we've gone  astray, it's already too late. We're already   derailed, we're already overreacting, we're  already panicked. If we can pull back enough   to kind of watch what's happening, even see  what's brewing on the horizon, it gives us much   more agency to take action that may not allow  the storm to actually, you know, overcome us.

Dan Harris: How do you remember to do this? Amishi Jha: In some sense, you remember when  you're formally practicing and it, you have   to think about it as creating that habit  of mind, practice noticing, right? And,   and I mean, you know this, we all know this  from an anybody that's had a chance to,   um, to engage in any kinda mindfulness  practice, it, it is not an easy thing to do. It is not an easy thing to do. Oftentimes  we might even be fooling ourselves to say,   oh, look at me, look at how focused I am, and  then realize, oh, actually in that statement,   I'm already off the thing I'm supposed  to be focusing on, which is my breath,   and onto this thought and my reflection  on what my state of, of attention is.

So it gets, you can get more and more granular  and subtle in watching the mind for the smallest   hints of, um, essentially excursions.  The mind takes from where you want to,   for your, for your focus to be. And  that is what I think when we talk   about befriending the mind, befriending  attention through contemplative practice. It is getting that friendly familiarity with  what's going on with us moment by moment,   um, which is part of the, not the  mandate that can feel like, again,   like a panicked feeling of like, how am I  gonna get myself to do this?

But more like,   ah, it's a different way of knowing myself  and knowing my experience moment by moment. Just actually since I said the term, knowing  myself, I wanna just make a clear distinction.   Meta awareness is not the same thing as what we  might call metacognition. Metacognition is like,   I know my tendencies. I know I tend to do to,  to think this way, or I tend to problem solve   this way. Or when I'm in a crisis mode,  I tend to seek out this kind of support. That's great.

That's great to have an  understanding of the way your cognitive   functioning works. Meta awareness  is much more moment to moment. It   is much more about just what is going  on right now, moment by moment, and,   uh, whether that's kind of taking stock in terms  of the raw data that you're experiencing or even   noticing the mind's tendency to make stories  regarding the raw data that's being experienced. It allows you more agency because  you have a better sense of what's   going on. And oftentimes, again, with  our tactical professional colleagues,   we'll talk about it as situational awareness.  The situation in this case isn't some external   circumstance that you're watching  out for.

It's the entirety of the   circumstance and including yourself and  what's going on for you moment to moment. Dan Harris: Okay, now I miss you, Wendy.  Um, before I, before I, before I, uh,   bring you back in here, lemme just reset  for the, um, uh, for the audience. We've,   uh, we've covered seven tips so far, and, uh,  tip number one, understand you can change your   brain. Two, meditate. Three. Exercise four,  sleep. Five. Connect. Six. Don't multitask. Seven. Practice meta awareness. Eight.  Wendy. Harness anxiety. How do we harness   anxiety?

Yes. It feels like we wanna do, uh, we  wanna do the opposite. We wanna offend it off. Wendy Suzuki: I am glad you said it that way,  Dan. So I want everybody to understand that   anxiety is a normal human emotion. It's not the  enemy. Um, it's actually activation E energy. And the question is, will you let that activation  energy scatter you? I've done it. Everybody's done   it every once in a while. Or will you steer it to  help you and to actually do what it was designed   to do that is protect you.

So, um, let's start  with reality. Uh, everybody has high levels of   anxiety at this particular moment, uh, in time  in our, in our world, country, uh, history. Um, uh, I'm not saying that everybody  should be able to function at their   highest at a high level of anxiety. Um,  first, let's learn how to turn it down,   turn the volume down on anxiety. We've already  talked about two beautiful ways to do that   meditation, all three, uh, uh, uh, kinds  that Amishi, Amishi describes so beautifully. Exercising is beautiful.

I wanna add a third less  well known. Um. Which I call joy conditioning. And   it is the equal and opposite to something  that we've all experienced, which is fear   conditioning. So fear conditioning is something  scary happens and you can't forget it because   your amygdala has really sealed it in your brain  so that it protects you for the rest of the time. Um, that's not great to walk around with all these  fearful memories. How come my most joyful memories   of the time that I spend with my family, my  friends, how come those can, can't be sealed in,   in the same way?

It's because memory doesn't  work that way unless you use joy conditioning.   Joy conditioning just says to enhance all  those wonderful memories that you already have. We all have them. Think about them  again, rehearse them. We started out   brain plasticity is if you do it over  and over, it gets. Strengthened. If   you remember your most joyful memories  in your life over and over and over,   they come out from the background and you remember  them more. And it helps your, uh, overall mood. That is my, my, um, un um, common  tip to lower your anxiety.

But,   um, ESI said a great word, uh, in her  last segment, which is a superpower. Um,   I think I call anxiety our superpower, if you  know how to harness and steer its energy. And,   um, uh, uh, I'll, I'll, I'll give you the  most common superpower that everybody has. Did you know that your anxiety could  be your superpower for productivity?   It works this way. Most common form, a very  common form of anxiety is the what if list.   It hits me right at night when I'm trying to go  to sleep.

We talked about sleep, and it's like,   oh my God, what if I, what if  that email didn't land right? What if what I said to that person didn't  sound good? Uh, what if my report didn't,   didn't go well, and I think about all these things  and I ruminate and, and then I can't sleep. Well,   um, first, remember that all these what ifs are,   are meaningful to you. These are the  things that you are important for you. That's the first thing to remember. And second,  um, what I've done is I don't get up and do   something about them, but I note them.

I go  to sleep and the next morning I do something,   put an action plan for each of those worries  that are meaningful to me. And in that way,   I become more productive. If I actually  do an action, I will go review the email. I'll, I'll ask three friends to, to  look at the report one more time. Um,   these are actionable items that  turns your natural anxiety brain,   your what if list into a productivity list.  And that's what I mean by turning your,   your own form of anxiety into a superpower.  In this case, a superpower, a productivity.

Dan Harris: So let me just make sure I understand  that. If, if I'm feeling anxious about something.   Let me just make sure I understand that.  If I'm feeling anxious about something,   in fact, this happened to be to today,  just as I was sitting down to meditate,   I was just hit by this huge bolt of  anxiety about the title of my next book,   which I want to be something risky and, um, uh,  but now I'm not sure I can live with the risk. Um, and so that hits me.

And for you  listener, it could be something else.   Uh, as you know, as Wendy said, it could be  something you feel like you put your foot in   your mouth earlier in the day, or, um, you're  worried about the, the quality of a project   you're working on, whatever. If I'm hearing  you correctly, it's a two part move, Wendy. One is remember that this is connected to  something that gives your life meaning Yes. You   care about it for a reason. Mm-hmm. So  that's just kind of a reframing device.

Amishi Jha: Yes. And Dan Harris: the second is. You might not  be able to do something about it right now,   especially if you're trying to  go to sleep. Make a note of it. Mm-hmm. And then the next day allow less  the anxiety, but more the meaning. The   fact that you care about it motivates you to  revisit it. Revisit it in a common, sane way. Wendy Suzuki: Exactly. Exactly. And that  will naturally decrease your anxiety about   it because you are, uh, you, Dan will be, uh,  asking your three smartest friends to help you.

You know, uh, um, think about what that  title should be and yes, you'll get more   information. It should decrease your  anxiety. Um, I got this from a lawyer,   uh, a very, uh, uh, well paid New York  City lawyer. She uses this, uh, uh,   every day and she claims that this is the reason  why she is a very high paid New York City lawyer. She turned her own anxiety into,  um, a productivity list, uh,   that makes her a better lawyer. And I said,  can I use that for my book?

And she said, yes, Dan Harris: Wendy. Is there evidence that anxiety,  if untreated and unharnessed can damage our brain? Wendy Suzuki: Absolutely. So, you know,  um, anxiety, uh, uh, exists on a very,   very wide spectrum, um, from just everyday  mild worries to clinical level anxiety that   needs a professional needs, uh, uh, medication  and, uh, leads to high, high levels of stress. High levels of stress absolutely will damage your  brain in the long term, and I call chronic anxiety   and chronic stress. Uh, the two most common forms  of, um, negative brain plasticity, we've only   been talking about positive brain plasticity, but  actually, um, chronic anxiety and chronic stress   can move the brain in the opposite direction  to damage and, um, shrinkage in some cases.

Dan Harris: Real quick before we move on to  the ninth tip, um, there are a couple of other,   uh, ways we can. Mitigate anxiety and all of the  stress it produces. Uh, and those are according to   you, Wendy, both gratitude and generosity. Yeah.  Can you say a little bit about these two G words? Wendy Suzuki: Absolutely. So  there's a lot of evidence that,   um, these are bo uh, well,  gratitude is a mindset shift. Uh, um, I to to spend a moment thinking about  all the things you have in your life that you   are grateful for.

Um. Elevates them kind  of like joy conditioning, elevates the,   the positive memories and then  diminishes all those things that   can seem so overwhelming in high states  of anxiety. It is a wonderful practice. Uh, there are meditations around gratitude, I'm  sure that Amishi can tell you all about. It is   a wonderful practice that has direct effects on  lowering your anxiety and generosity. Has been,   sh has been studied in MRI studies FMRI studies  where, um, they show that, uh, um, if they're   given, people are given the opportunity to lower  somebody else's tax rate without them knowing.

Dopamine goes up in their brain. It is  an immediate way, uh, acts of generosity.   You've all read this in the newspaper  and in your favorite magazine. You know,   pay for the person's coffee behind you.  Leave quarters in the play yard for your,   for the kids to find. Hmm. Those,  those, um, unsung acts of generosity,   um, do lead to, um, um, feelings of reward and  lowering, immediate lowering of, um, anxiety. Uh, it is a powerful, uh, tool and it's a great,   it's great that this is on the  tip list, uh, that you have.

Dan. Dan Harris: Quick note on the penultimate tip, uh,  the, the gratitude tip. Um, I mentioned earlier my   bedtime routine. Um, when I get in the shower, I  make a list of all the good things that happened   that day since I'm so anxious and pessimistic  that it, it counter programs against my nature. Um, okay. Amishi tip number nine.  This is also something I I, I really,   I'm glad you're reminding me of 'cause I  don't do a good job at this. Tip number   nine. Tip number nine is to build in  mental white space.

Say more, please. Amishi Jha: Yes, we talk a lot about  attention and the, uh, power of attention,   the nature of attention, training it  with contemplative template of practice. Um, but we also know that attention is constantly  being engaged in our modern world. In fact,   if we think about what social media, et cetera,  um, in the modern technological landscape,   it's called an attention economy. And  the nature of how we function these days,   uh, is putting a burden on that frankly,  because we are constantly using this,   this particular brain system,  uh, knowingly or unknowingly,   and keeping our attention engaged is not  just neutral, it's actually the way in which.

Many organizations are making a lot  of money, right? So the product,   uh, in the social media context,  um, is your attention. So, and,   and a good tip for folks is just keep that  in mind is that if you're engaging with some   platform and you aren't paying for it, probably  your attention is the thing that's paying for it. Meaning it is your attention, uh, getting exposed  to the ads. Uh, that is the reason this platform   is, is free for you. So just to empower ourselves  in that way.

So where does whitespace come in? In   some sense, it's saying have a context set  up a period of time, set up a way in which   you can give your directed flashlight being either  pulled, pushed, or, uh, yanked around a break by. What I'm calling mental meandering.  So that sounds a little bit strange,   but I mean, I don't wanna, the other term  would be mind wandering, right? Like,   let your mind wander when you go for a walk  or when you daydream, you're letting your mind   wander. I don't use the term mind wander 'cause  it actually is tied to a whole other literature,   which is when we wanna be doing something  in our mind, wanders away from that,   which is actually quite bad, uh, for our  ability to function well and feel well.

But meandering in this way is allowing  your mind, and that's what I mean by   white space to not have an agenda about  what it's gonna prioritize or think about,   but allow the free flow of conscious  thought to emerge. And, you know,   there are very good ways to do this, whether  it is going for a walk in nature, um, or, uh,   while you're waiting, just anywhere, anytime  you're waiting, waiting in line, um, you know,   waiting to go, uh, into a meeting, whatever it  is, instead of picking up your phone by default.

And engaging with whatever that is. 'cause  that is, again, using that flashlight,   just sit there and actually know that you are  gonna be benefiting yourself by allowing the   mind to go where it will. And how do we  know this? Well, we know when people are   allowed to have this sort of white space. They  report better mood, uh, better problem solving,   better self support in the way that they  kind of orient to challenges that they face. So we know that there are benefits to doing this,  and we are particularly challenged in our modern   world of, um, freeing ourselves of the constant  pull on our attention.

So take it seriously and,   um, see it not as a waste of time,  but as worthy of your time. And it   just reminds me of one of my favorite book titles. Don't just do something, sit there.  And I think we should take that to   heart to add a little bit more  of that into our daily lives. Dan Harris: Okay, tip number 10. The  vast majority of the tips today have   been individual tips. On the importance  of mental white space, Wendy, on sleep,   et cetera, et cetera.

But tips number  one and two are from both of you. Tip number one was to understand that  you can change your brain. Tip number   10 is believe that you can change your  brain. So, Wendy, we only go to you.   What's the difference between understanding  you can change your brain and believing it? Wendy Suzuki: It is a question of agency. So I  want people to leave with this thought that the   daily choices that you make are shaping  the brain you will live with tomorrow. So go through our number one through 10.

And this  isn't about optimizing, it's making daily choices,   how much sleep you have, how much  social connection that you have,   how much time do you spend, um, doing  loving kindness meditation that will   enhance your day and in many, many  different ways. Talk about two-fer. It's like a. Three fur or four fur, uh, right  there. Um, these choices make a difference on   the brain's biology. Uh, the brain is biological.  It responds to repetition what you do every single   day. And what Amishi and I have tried to do is  give people the biological basis of what makes   their brain work and be healthy, healthy  est for the longest period of their lives.

Dan Harris: Amishi, I'll give you the final word. Amishi Jha: Oh, beautifully, beautifully said.  It's hard to, hard to follow that summary. What   I would wanna say about believing is actually tied  to the way I respond to the word belief, which is   usually like, no, show me the evidence. And we are  at a moment, uh, thankfully through the effort of,   um, what we have in terms of a scientific  understanding that we know that neuroplasticity. Is a reality of how the brain functions.  And just to tell you how recent this is,   when I started graduate school,  which wasn't that long ago,   we didn't know about neurogenesis.

We actually  had the understanding, I was even taught the   understanding that you kind of have what you  got and then it kind of withers away as we age. And that's it. And for me, knowing that that is  not the case, that the adult brain, not only uh,   do we grow and proliferate neurons through  the course of development and then kind of   prune them away, but the adult brain  is capable of, of. Birthing new brain   cells as, as Wendy mentioned, is such a  powerful thing for us to keep in mind.

And we have seen over and over again,  uh, through the varieties of studies,   whether it's about mindfulness training or or  exercise, that you can change the functioning of   the brain. You can change the way brain networks  connect to each other. You can change the way in   the moment The brain is functioning in an acute  way, like meaning as people are practicing. You see brain changes kind of taking  shape in, in moment by moment. And   those translate into what becomes the  structural changes that are more stable.   So if believed doesn't sit with you the way  that it, it, uh, doesn't always sit with me,   know that this scientific, um, uh, evidence  should empower you to take seriously.

This fact about the brain. And that means that  whatever you do repeatedly is going to change   your brain, whether you want it to or not. It  will make an active, as, as the term Wendy used,   use your own agency to embody the way you live  your life. And I think this is a beautiful way   where exercise and mindfulness can again, go hand  in hand to embody the way you live your life. Not literally only in your body, but even in  the way you orient to your body to ensure that   you live a full and meaningful life.

And, and  that's the way I would hold neuroplasticity,   that it is a pathway to leaving a full and  meaningful life, uh, not some mandate to optimize Dan Harris: Amishi. And Wendy,  such a pleasure to have these two,   you two powerful scientists here on the show. Thank you very much for coming on. Wendy Suzuki: Thank you, Dan. Amishi Jha: Thanks so much, Dan.