The World’s Greatest Winter Olympian Shares the Secrets to His Success

Key Takeaway

When a goal feels overwhelming, shrink it to the next controllable landmark. Johannes Klæbo gets through 50K races by telling himself, “just get over the next hill,” then repeating the process. Use this today on a workout, difficult project, or stressful task: define the next 10-minute action, complete it without negotiating with yourself, and only then choose the next one. Progress becomes more manageable when you compete with your own willingness to continue.

Episode Overview

Cross-country skiing champion Johannes Klæbo explains how he developed from a middling teenage athlete into the most decorated Winter Olympian. He shares lessons on building technique before endurance, using deliberate experimentation, managing energy across long events, training the mind, and protecting joy and balance amid extreme ambition.

Full Transcript

Transcript of The World’s Greatest Winter Olympian Shares the Secrets to His Success from Rich Roll Podcast. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

And here is Klebo! Allow Allow The amount of energy you put into this must be just insane. insane. insane. I saw this video myself and thought, "That looks pretty good." pretty good." pretty good." Hot. Hot. Johannes Klebo! Johannes Klebo! 13-time 13-time 13-time Olympic Olympic Olympic medalist, 11 gold medals, the most gold gold gold medals at a single Winter Olympic Winter Olympic Winter Olympic Games, the most career gold medals of any any any Winter Winter Winter Olympic athlete. It's just incredible what you've achieved. achieved. achieved. I've always had this mindset: I hate losing hate losing .

The feeling of winning a race is amazing. The feeling of feeling of feeling of coming second is much worse. It's a mental game. You say to yourself, " Okay, let's go over the next hill, another hill." And you keep keep keep tricking your tricking your tricking your brain into moving a little further. further. further. So, 1000 hours of training, what does that look like? look like? look like? 2 and a half hours Oh, really? How interesting. You are known as the person who modernized this sport and brought it to the level of 2026, although in the United States it is, you know, a fairly little-known fairly little-known fairly little-known sport.

I would say that most people, at least in the United States, United States, United States, had almost no connection to the sport until they saw you saw you saw you literally running literally running literally running uphill on skis at 10.2 mph, a sub-6-minute sub-6-minute sub-6-minute mile pace, and it caused quite a stir when the video went viral. And it has probably done more to more to more to popularize the popularize the popularize the sport than anyone else in the last 30 or 40 years. I guess that's true, and I think it's good that people can see the numbers, you know, when you see that we have kilometers per hour and you realize: okay, that's 18.2 kilometers per hour on the climb.

You see the slope. Just so people understand it better and get to know it better. Because that way it's easier for people to truly understand how quickly we climb these hills . But yeah, it was a cool moment cool moment to see so many people pay attention to what we were doing. I mean, cross-country skiing has always been a small small small sport, but it's getting bigger, and I think my goal was to tell and show people show people show people how healthy it is because you're because you're using your legs, your upper body, and you're also building building building endurance.

You endurance. You endurance. You train these two or three things at the same time when you're on the track. And it's also a very low risk of injury, injury, injury, unlike running, unlike running, unlike running, cycling or cycling or cycling or anything like that. Few sports Few sports simultaneously engage the upper body, upper body, upper body, lower body, and endurance. And this is Swimming. Swimming. Swimming. Swimming would probably be the be the be the closest comparison closest comparison . . . This is probably the closest option.

And I think that these two sports, or sports, or sports, or sports in general, are very effective for maintaining good maintaining good maintaining good shape and health. In recent years, we have seen that people are paying more attention to their health , trying to do the right exercises, eat right, etc., and I think it's great because today we lead a much healthier much healthier much healthier lifestyle than lifestyle than lifestyle than before. before. Mhm. There is this feeling in the endurance athlete community. Like, if you're an endurance athlete—being a runner or a triathlete, well, triathlete, well, triathlete, well, doing one of those sports— those sports— that's one thing.

But the sport that commands the most respect most respect most respect among those among those among those dedicated to dedicated to dedicated to endurance is cross-country skiing . They . They . They say that that's where the most resilient people in the world live. It's like a different breed of people. The level of endurance, strength, and agility agility agility required to required to required to reach an elite level in this sport is sport is sport is unmatched by any other type of endurance sport. It's like, you know, the pinnacle of fitness.

I want you to explain the rigors of this sport that you dominate. What does it take to take to take to compete at the highest level in ski racing? ski racing? Oh, I think there are many factors that are important. But one thing that is definitely needed is VO2 max, it's important because during a race we are constantly moving up and down. Let's say a 10 km distance is actually 22 minutes at full speed from start to finish. There are a lot of ups and downs, but it is at the finish line that your VO2 max should be should be should be high enough to allow you to perform at your highest level.

And another aspect is the technical part, and I think it's think it's think it's important in many sports. I think this is just as important in ski racing as as as in many other disciplines, because disciplines, because disciplines, because you need to have the right technique right technique right technique on the appropriate terrain and slopes. If the climb has a 5% slope, one technique is needed , and if it has a 6% slope, it is a little different. And it changes every changes every changes every second.

So finding the right technical balance on each individual section of the track is really difficult. Also, I think it's important to just have the stamina to compete in cold air. cold air. cold air. Plus, my race weekend can weekend can weekend can range from 1.3 km —I don't know how many miles that is, probably a little less than a mile. Or a little less, yes. A little less than a mile, and then we have a 50km distance, which means about 2 hours of racing. And a sprint lasts a little less than 3 minutes.

minutes. minutes. Yes. Yes. And there are all the distances in between , which means you need fast-twitch muscle fibers for sprinting, but also the endurance to endurance to endurance to cover 50 km. I think that's the beauty of this sport, which has always been the main incentive for me—to be able to do everything. do everything. do everything. Yes. So for those who are unfamiliar with unfamiliar with unfamiliar with Johannes, let's Johannes, let's Johannes, let's get them up to speed . You are a 13-time Olympic Olympic Olympic medalist, with 11 gold medals.

You hold the record for the most gold most gold most gold medals won at a single Winter single Winter single Winter Olympic Games. The largest number of career gold medals among all Winter Olympians. Winter Olympians. Your achievements are simply incredible, and no less impressive is the fact that you win both win both win both sprint sprint sprint distances and distances and distances and distances up to 50 km. This is equivalent to equivalent to equivalent to someone winning someone winning someone winning gold in the 400-meter dash and dash and dash and then also winning the marathon.

This is simply incomprehensible. incomprehensible. So how do you maintain the maintain the maintain the flexibility and flexibility and flexibility and agility to agility to agility to dominate both dominate both dominate both sprint sprint sprint distances and the longest races of up to 50 km? This is simply amazing. amazing. Yes, I think that was my goal since childhood. My grandfather is my coach, he is now 82 years old. He was always my coach. He was the one who picked me up from school and brought me to training.

to training. to training. We We We went to ski training every weekend throughout the winter. So he played a huge role in my success, but I would say the key factor key factor key factor was that we started with the goal of winning the sprint race. That's where we started, because when I was 18-19 years old, we realized: it's easier for me to succeed in sprinting than in cross-country in cross-country in cross-country skiing. skiing. So we decided to focus more on more on more on sprinting when sprinting when sprinting when I was 17-19 years old.

And when I became an adult and was able to participate in the World Cup, we showed showed results in the sprint from the first day. Mhm. When we were able to train for 1,000 hours, which is a certain limit for us, we decided to shift our focus from sprinting to distance running. This was around my around my around my 20s, so we gradually moved gradually moved gradually moved from sprint from sprint from sprint training to training to training to more more more distance training. We added altitude training .

We added a lot more long classes. long classes. My typical My typical sprint sprint sprint week used to be around 18-21 hours. Now, if I train for 21 hours, that's considered an easy week. week. week. Yes. Yes. Yes. Now we are closer to 25-30 hours, which is about the average for the year. We changed our focus to focus to focus to longer workouts— longer workouts— longer workouts— three hours almost every day—to gradually build build build endurance. I think it proved that you can maintain your maintain your maintain your sprinting skills sprinting skills while developing your distance skills, so now I can do both .

. That's reasonable. This is patient. And this is the right approach, because if you are fast and have technique, you can always can always can always build up your endurance over time, you have you have you have plenty of years to do so. And gradually, step by step, increasing step, increasing step, increasing distance while distance while distance while maintaining maintaining maintaining speed—this is speed—this is speed—this is actually a very smart approach. You can't do it the other way around. It is impossible to specialize in long distances first and then expect then expect then expect speed to come later.

later. No, because as we see over the years, you get slower as you age. So it was important for me to use to use to use the momentum I had at 18–19, to work on my technique , to gain strength to be fast and agile, and then shift the emphasis a little bit to to to endurance, but endurance, but endurance, but maintain my speed qualities, instead of doing the opposite, because it's hard to fight the fact that you're getting older, and that's important to me. Right now I feel like I need to focus a little more on sprinting, do some do some do some training to training to training to stay in shape, because every year you feel like you're getting a little slower.

We're not too old to not run sprints , but somewhere around the age of 32–33, there comes a point when you realize that it really gets hard. I'm sure other athletes in your sport sport sport approached it the same way . But that still doesn't explain why you're so much better than others. others. No, No, it's a rational approach, a very good long-term path long-term path long-term path to mastery in sports, but I'm sure there are other people who do the same. same. I guess that's true, but I...

So I want you to formulate this, I want you to voice what is usually usually usually kept quiet. Why are you so much better? What is the factor that sets you apart? It 's hard to say because I feel like there are a lot of athletes who athletes who athletes who do everything right, but I've always had this mindset—I this mindset—I this mindset—I can't stand can't stand can't stand losing. I losing. I losing. I mean, winning a race is an incredible feeling, incredible feeling, incredible feeling, but coming in second place is a lot worse.

Is it because you feel like you've failed yourself? failed yourself? failed yourself? Is it intrinsic motivation or is it because you lost to someone else? someone else? someone else? No, I always say that I compete with myself . It's always been about me and being able to challenge my own thoughts, because I feel like a 50K race is a mind game, you know? It's about yourself, how you try to trick your mind, telling yourself, "Okay, let's just get over the next hill, one more," and you keep tricking keep tricking keep tricking yourself into moving on, and in the end you cross the finish line, and if you did everything right, you come in first; and if I couldn't fool myself enough, that's what I tell myself.

I feel like this is where I'm I'm I'm failing myself. So for me it was always about myself and how I could play this game against myself, and for me that was always a driving force. I hate I hate losing more than anyone else. Here is your answer. your answer. your answer. And that's exactly right. It has always been like this. I mean, it was like that when I played football as a child, you know. It's almost the same as when we play cards at home with our family.

family. You know, I just have this feeling that when there's a competition, when there's something at stake, I feel like I just love love to win. to win. It seems like it. The interesting thing is that this is not at all the story that most people might imagine. Yes, your grandfather was always there. Yes, your mother was also a skier. Your grandfather gave you your first skis when you were about 2 years old, but it wasn't like now I'm on skis and it's just a clean path to success with no obstacles.

I mean, you were pretty average in your younger years. I read about your athletic experience at about 14 years old, and you were much smaller than the others. It felt like you had some athletic talent, athletic talent, athletic talent, but you were pretty average at everything else. Yes, I mean, I I I started out pretty well as a child. And in Norway, we don't record record record children's times when they compete, compete, compete, at least until they're 10 years old, I think. think. Mhm. So, but since you start going to training when you're 5-6 years old.

I started then too , and from the age of 5-6 to 10, we would, let's say, waste time, but record the results randomly. The one who was first on the results list results list results list was not necessarily the one who won the race. It was kind of random every weekend when you competed, and I think back then I was always looking at the time: how did I perform compared to my friends and others? But when we turned 14, people started to started to started to grow up a bit.

I was still very, very small, and it was like...well, wrestling with a man. It was a child versus a man, you see, there was a huge difference. So I was just in my area where there were about 40 people competing, and I was somewhere in the middle, probably twentieth. probably twentieth. Aha. Aha. Just in the middle. How did that fit in with your hatred of losing? losing? losing? No, it was terrible. My mom would tell me every week, “Okay, we “Okay, we “Okay, we need to find something else to do.

"It can't go on like this ." But then we... I think, together with my grandfather, we found a way, or started working on what I could do to become better, because someday I'll start to grow up a little bit. So we decided: okay, decided: okay, decided: okay, let's focus on what we can we can we can influence, which is my technique. my technique. my technique. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. I can't do anything about it . I'm small, so I just have to wait. And that's when we started to really focus on focus on technique: how we work with the poles, how we run, everything we do do do today.

Balance on the skis became a key factor in my success, I would say, and it's something we developed from the age of 14 to 17 , when I finally started to grow a little. At 15, you declared that you would become the best, or set or set or set yourself such a goal, even though at 14, nothing indicated such a possibility. But possibility. But possibility. But some some some interesting things happened during that time. First of all , this is happening against the backdrop of a certain certain certain cultural cultural cultural context, about which a lot has been written and talked about recently.

Well, what's going on with Norway? Norway is just just just having its having its having its moment right now. Look at the exceptional results exceptional results we see at the Olympic Olympic Olympic Games level. We've seen it at the World Cup over the last few last few last few weeks. We have you. We have Ingebrigtsen. We have, you know, Gustav and Christian in triathlon. We see such an incredible galaxy of exceptional athletes like you that it's hard for the American mind to comprehend. How is this even possible?

And when you find out that, they say, they don't keep an account until the age of 13. They have a completely different culture of attitude towards victories and defeats. And now it's become almost a model for parents in children's sports on how to do it right, which I think is very interesting. And within that, there was a trainer who came up with a whole series of challenges for people like you—the "rune" challenge. Can you tell me tell me tell me a little more about this? Because I find it extremely interesting.

extremely interesting. extremely interesting. Yes, that's really interesting. So, my coach at the time had the goal of getting as many kids to kids to kids to attend as many practices as possible. This was his main goal. And he introduced a kind of challenge: you challenge: you challenge: you received points received points received points every time you were at training. So, you got one point. And at every at every at every training session we organized some kind of relay races. We were divided into four or five teams, and we competed in a relay race.

But it wasn't just about running back and forth as fast as possible, like in a regular ski regular ski regular ski race. We were running on the same ski. Yes, of course. Good. We took off one ski. We ran with one stick. We ran without poles. There were so many different ways different ways different ways to pass such a relay. And you received points received points received points depending on how you performed in this relay race. And at the end of the season, when everything when everything when everything was over, we would organize organize pursuit races, where we would start depending on the number of points accumulated over the year.

And then it became clear: "Okay, those who attended a lot of training had an advantage in the pursuit." pursuit." So for me, it was like a goal—it was good to do Runa's do Runa's do Runa's Challenge at the end of the season because it showed that you not only participated a lot of times, but you also showed up to practice consistently, practice consistently, practice consistently, you know? And I feel like, yes, for me, looking me, looking me, looking back, it was a perfect way perfect way perfect way to get as many kids involved in the classes as possible.

And I think it's a kind of kind of kind of culture in Norway. And, as you said, there are discussions going on right now about what we do in Norway, because we are a small country, we only have 5.5 million people. It's quite a small number in the big world, but we still have so many top many top many top athletes in different sports. And I think that's what we do : the main goal of a lot of local clubs is clubs is that we want kids to try as many sports as possible , and we want to keep them there as long as possible.

And then, when we turn 15, 16, 17 , we make a decision whether to pursue a sports career in high school high school high school or or or choose something else. This is the moment when people begin to make their choices. But up until the age of 15, we try to keep as keep as keep as many children as possible, and I feel that this has become a key to success and part of the culture in Norway. I think it worked really worked really worked really well, and when you talk to a lot of the top athletes, athletes, athletes, they all really appreciate it today, remembering how great the training really was, because there were so many of us every time.

every time. Yeah, and creating a culture where the main thing is to make sure that kids are engaged, that they're connected to sports and sports and sports and fall in love with it, so that they can maintain a relationship with physical activity physical activity physical activity for a lifetime, instead of negative memories negative memories negative memories of how they were never chosen and, you know, forget about it. I'm moving in a different direction, like sports — it's not for me. Yeah, and I think just being able to try different try different try different sports, you know?

Many Norwegians Many Norwegians have been cross-country skiing for at least six to ten years . . Yes, there are about a thousand ski clubs in Norway, right ? ? ? Oh, there are so many of them. Well, it's just where I live, from my house to Granasen, where the World Championships were held, it's only 5 km. There are three clubs in this 5-kilometer this 5-kilometer this 5-kilometer stretch alone. So there are a lot of them, but as I said, I think many only try their hand at ski racing for 4 years.

But then they then they then they develop the skill , and when they get older, they remember what it's like to ski. ski. ski. So as they get older, they can can can use skiing use skiing use skiing as a form of exercise. You know, they can go to the dacha in the winter , and on the weekends they can go skiing as part of their fitness program. They try football, athletics, and athletics, and athletics, and cycling. The goal is for is for is for children to try as many sports as possible , because then parents give their children the opportunity the opportunity the opportunity to decide for themselves what they like like like best: soccer, best: soccer, best: soccer, cross-country skiing, or track and field.

And the decision is made based on what you like, not like, not like, not just when you're put in a section where you're forced to do something for several years, instead of instead of instead of trying different things and deciding for yourself. Yes. However, over time, it is a controversial path to perfection. Because perfection. Because perfection. Because there is an opinion that if you want to be the best, you need to specialize specialize specialize as early as possible. And the example of Norway shows that this is a wrong way of thinking.

Have you read David read David read David Epstein's book "Universals" ? ? ? No. This is exactly what it is about. I will send you this book. We used to think that the best people in the world specialized early, specialized early, specialized early, were focused, and worked their worked their worked their 10,000 hours, and that this was the only way to the top. And such examples really exist. These are Tiger Woods and other similar other similar other similar personalities. But personalities. But personalities. But in general, if you analyze the analyze the analyze the best in the world in various fields, from science and academic disciplines to disciplines to disciplines to athletics, you will see that those who not only became the best, but also maintained successful maintained successful maintained successful careers for a long time, did many did many did many things in childhood, and came to their specialization later, having a wealth of experience that helped not only achieve peak achieve peak achieve peak results, but also maintain them maintain them maintain them for a long time.

time. Yes, and I think that if you've tried a lot of different things and realized that football is what I love the most, imagine how many hours and energy you can give to football, because you know that it's the sport you love the most. Or if it's cross-country skiing, it doesn't matter. But I think being able to able to able to try different try different try different things and being able to understand at a young age, "Okay, this is the sport sport sport I want to focus on and this is what I want to spend my time on," allows you allows you allows you to dedicate thousands of hours to training.

Experience is not a distraction. distraction. distraction. On the contrary, it contributes to your success in your specialization. You were a football player, I know, there was a moment when you had to decide whether to go into football or skiing, but your experience as a football player on the field contributed to your success as a skier because it gave you a different level of physical fitness physical fitness physical fitness and and and agility training in a different context, which context, which context, which improved your improved your improved your technique as a skier.

Certainly. And I think it's an interesting topic because it seems to me that everyone thinks, and many people believe, that you should only do things this way or that way. But I think we, in Norway, have at least tried to find a middle ground where ground where ground where we get as many kids kids kids involved as possible for as long as possible, and then hopefully, and that's at least what we've seen over the years, it's developed a lot of top athletes in a lot of different sports.

sports. I love nature, but I have to admit that since I started managing it, I find even more time to just sit down and go to places where you can get a real experience. real experience. real experience. I recently I recently I recently got to ride the R2 with RJ Scaringe, Scaringe, Scaringe, founder and founder and CEO of Rivian, and we talked about how this is no coincidence. How... how this idea, how we create this, you know , completely seamless connection to nature through a car, which by definition is supposed to somehow separate you separate you separate you from the outside world.

And how do design decisions design decisions design decisions shape, you know, that perspective? perspective? perspective? If you're in this car, you should feel that if you want to go somewhere, go hiking, or stay longer, it's at your service. It's just another little push little push little push to say, " It's okay to explore. " " " Yes. Yes. Yes. Seek the unknown. There is a drain plug in the front trunk. And the ability to lower the rear window in this car is a really cool feature, because you can put a put a put a surfboard or easily load load load equipment.

These are all little things that, on their own, don't seem to matter much, but combined they combined they combined they create a product for those who strive to live a full, adventurous life adventurous life . . To watch To watch the rest of our conversation and learn all about R2 and where it can take you, go to go to go to stories.rivian.com/richroll. This stories.rivian.com/richroll. This stories.rivian.com/richroll. This episode is brought to you by Whoop—a wearable Whoop—a wearable Whoop—a wearable health health health and fitness coach that turns data about your sleep, recovery, exercise, and exercise, and exercise, and health into better daily decisions.

Here's a phrase I phrase I phrase I keep coming back to. We measure We measure We measure longevity in years, but we but we but we measure life in moments. And the older I get— I I I turned 60 this fall—the more important the important the important the second part becomes to me. It's not just about adding time. It's about the quality of life in every minute I have left. That's how I feel about my Whoop. I have realistic goals: realistic goals: realistic goals: to get back to running without pain and hopefully be hopefully be fit and fit and healthy enough to run the New New York City Marathon this fall in honor of my 60th birthday.

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And that's the real advantage of Whoop . Not more data, but more life in your years. So try it. Go to Go to Go to join.whoop.com/roll to join.whoop.com/roll to join.whoop.com/roll to get 1 month of Whoop Whoop Whoop for free. I want to talk a little about football. You support Norway, Norway, Norway, you attend their matches. Going to the finals this weekend. How many many many Norway matches have you been to? For everyone? everyone? everyone? No, I didn't have time for that. I came for the most important match— against Senegal in the group stage.

I was only here for 3-4 days. One of my good friends is playing, so I wanted to come and support them. It was a cool experience, and just seeing just seeing just seeing how much football...well, we haven't we haven't we haven't qualified for the World Cup in 28 years. So there is a real " real " fever" in Norway right now because of the World Cup. As we say in Norway, it's just crazy. Everyone drinks beer. They stay up late because of the time difference. And they just completely lost their minds.

Yes, I would say that's true. Everything revolves around the around the around the World Cup. World Cup. World Cup. But here's the thing. You are an absolute genius in your sport. I can't imagine you would trade it for anything else, but is there a little a little a little part of you that, when you watch these games where Norway is playing, thinks, "Man, that could have been me." I could be there, maybe, like Definitely. Many Definitely. Many times. times. times. about what about what about what happens to happens to happens to Erling, how the world fell in love with this guy, and he became the most famous and respected respected respected athlete in the world.

I know. I know. I know. And you're like, "Damn it. " " " Although not without reason. He's a great guy and it's so impressive. Are you friends with him? We met We met several times several times several times because we have mutual sponsors. But yeah, he's a great guy. It's just incredible to see what he's achieved lately...well, in lately...well, in lately...well, in his career, and especially at this World Cup. It was a lot of fun. Therefore. Therefore. Therefore. And let's talk about someone who understands who understands who understands social media.

This is just madness. Here's what you need to do. You do. You do. You need to make a YouTube video with him where you make him live a day in your life, and then you live a day in his life: training, training, training, nutrition, etc. nutrition, etc. I think the world is just going crazy. going crazy. going crazy. I agree. I think it could be. This could be something really cool because, as I said, a lot of my friends are football players and we usually we usually we usually go on a week-long vacation together in the summer.

And when we compare training, training, training, for example, a football player and me as a skier, it's like a couple of years ago, we were in the Lofoten Lofoten Lofoten Islands in northern Norway, and, um, I went out for a 3-hour training session with double- poling in the morning, came back, and they, um , they or he was out for a run; ran about 5 km, and then did 10 climbs of 100-200 meters up the hill. Aha. Aha. And that was all training, and it was a great activity, great activity, great activity, you know?

And it took, let's say, an hour at most. And I was out for 3 hours, came back and knew that I would be out for another 2 hours in the evening . While he only practiced for an hour, he was very satisfied and it was a really good really good really good training day for him. So when you compare it in terms of hours, it's definitely it's definitely it's definitely different, but they have a completely different muscle different muscle different muscle load load load compared to what I have when I do 3- hour sessions.

But, um , sometimes when I'm running for 3 hours in the mud somewhere in Trondheim, it's raining and the weather is terrible, I sometimes wish I was a footballer, to footballer, to footballer, to do an hour or an hour and a half of training and say, "that was good," but yes. There yes. There is also a big difference in difference in difference in how much you get paid per hour. There's also a big difference. big difference. One thing I did n't know about you: I think you signed a 5- year professional year professional year professional cycling contract in 2020.

It's like you've joined a joined a joined a professional professional professional cycling team. You still...It's no surprise that you use a use a use a bike for bike for bike for ski training, ski training, ski training, but it shows how how how versatile an athlete you are. So, the reason I did that was because my grandfather and I were looking for, how do we build build build endurance now? endurance now? What can we do to become a little better? And we reviewed what I had done in previous years.

And there was one year when I broke my collarbone . So I had to pedal for pedal for pedal for about four about four about four weeks until I could could could use my use my use my upper body again. And that season I did very well in well in well in speed speed speed skating. So we went back to this and decided, "Okay, what can we do this year to build build build resilience?" And resilience?" And resilience?" And then, uh, I knew a guy who led a cycling team, and I started writing to them, and we realized: if I'm going to going to going to train more on the bike, I want to learn from the best.

That's why I contacted them, and we decided that this was something we we we could could could work on together. And so I went from went from went from using my using my using my bike 30 hours a year to 100 hours a year. Mhm. But I just wanted to, I wanted to learn as much as possible from the cycling team in how to use the bike, bike, bike, the settings and everything else. So I do everything right because I think that's always been one of my key factors: key factors: key factors: when I start doing something for the first time, I really want to do it well, you know?

When I want to dig into the details and see what I can do better, and that's why we started we started we started working with, you know, what I've moved on to is the World Tour team now. They won a stage of the Tour de France two days ago, and they've been simply amazing the last few years. So it's cool to be a part of this and really learn from the best. Are best. Are you still on the team? Yes, I'm still on the team, but they have a season when I do n't.

So it's hard to somehow combine these things, but in recent years I've always been to the Tour de France, just France, just France, just watching and watching and watching and participating for participating for participating for a few days. I did n't have time this year, but this... Did this... Did this... Did you also participate in the race? I didn't participate in the race. So it's kind of ... not at all . Yes. I wish I could, but I think, I think I started...I actually started...I actually started...I actually got a message from Thor Gushovd, who is something like...

like... like... Oh, yeah. the team's sports director and... a true legend, and now the director. Yes, and he wanted me to try quitting try quitting try quitting skiing and start cycling, but I think unfortunately it's too late, because I think developing the developing the developing the endurance for the climbs would be possible. Of course, not against Thaddeus, but overall, it's pretty good. I think it would be possible to have enough enough enough endurance, because I think our VO2 and so on are at a very good level, but the biggest challenge would be just to stay in the group.

Imagine group. Imagine group. Imagine how much, because I didn't compete, you know, and then there are these downhills, of course . . . I mean, there's a lot to learn. learn. learn. There are certain aspects that will probably be difficult because you haven't been doing it since birth, but birth, but birth, but riding in a group can be learned. You can, a lot of this can be trained. It would be cool to see you try maybe a shorter multi-day shorter multi-day shorter multi-day race and see what you're capable of, it could be could be could be another career.

another career. another career. Yes, I don't know if it's too late. I'm late. I'm late. I'm turning 30, I don't think it's think it's think it's too late. I guess the thing is, there are a lot of things you can do. What should you do, you know? you know? you know? Oh, that's true. But a bicycle as an exercise bike is an exceptional thing, because it's almost like a data collection machine. The amount of data and data and data and feedback you can get from a bike is probably better than better than better than skiing, right?

I mean mean mean power metrics and all the ways you can calibrate and customize your workouts. And you can can train for hours in a row. I don't know how it is in skiing and what effect it has on the body, but as a means of developing aerobic aerobic aerobic endurance, endurance, endurance, I think, I think it has no equal. There are a lot of similarities, but the biggest difference, as you said, in cycling, there is all the data. In skiing, it's actually difficult. actually difficult.

actually difficult. I mean, the only thing we can measure is heart rate. You don't have a power sensor on your skis. We don't…So I would say skiing is much more based on feel, you know? When I go out for a 3- hour workout, I do it mostly by feel and feel and feel and But you have a chest heart rate monitor. monitor. monitor. Yes, and that's probably the only indicator only indicator only indicator we can we can we can use. But use. But use. But during the race I rely only on feeling.

I never look at my heart rate during a race. I just give it my all , step by step, trusting my trusting my trusting my feelings. feelings. feelings. M-hm. Are you wearing it? Looking at the data after completion? Do completion? Do completion? Do you wear any Garmin or similar device similar device similar device while racing? For the last few years I've just I've just I've just been using my Whoop on my biceps during races and I think that's enough to be accurate. I mean, it's better to use Garmin to get...

But I get the point, and that's what I'm interested in, because it does n't change anything for me whether whether whether my heart rate was 190 or 185. It doesn't change anything before the race I'm planning the next day, because the routine, the recovery, the nutrition—it's all nutrition—it's all nutrition—it's all more or less the same. Yes. Have you ever trained with trained with trained with Christian or Christian or Christian or Gustav? Gustav? Gustav? No, I didn't have to. Have you met Olaf, their coach? You would understand.

understand. understand. He's now part of the UN X team too. Oh, really. Okay, cool. cool. But yeah, he's an interesting man, and what he's done with triathlon in Norway, and I mean, in the world. He has the measurements, all the metrics and data they've collected over the years. This is simply incredible. incredible. Yes, for someone like you who loves loves loves to experiment and is always trying always trying always trying to find something new or an edge—Olaf would be a godsend for you. You definitely should.

should. should. I think so. Not to Not to Not to replace grandpa. I'm sure he knows a lot , but Olaf is on a whole other level. Yes, definitely. And his vision and everything else— I think it's impressive what they've achieved. they've achieved. What's also cool about your situation is that you have a family business. Your grandfather is your coach, your father is your manager, right? Mom is in finance , and brother is a social media manager, right? He seems to be running your YouTube channel.

So, it's all in the family. Yes. We started when I was 18 and I decided I wanted to do YouTube. I told my brother, "I need someone to edit." So edit." So edit." So he went on YouTube himself and learned editing using YouTube, using YouTube, using YouTube, you know? And that's how it all started. And then when I first started winning races, uh , my grandfather had always been my coach, so it was only natural natural natural to continue to continue to continue working with him because we had already achieved success when I was 20.

But when I won my first World Cup stage, everything changed at home overnight, overnight, overnight, there was a lot of interest from interest from interest from sponsors, media, sponsors, media, sponsors, media, all the things that usually come with winning a race, and I needed I needed I needed help, and my dad was able to provide it. At first he helped me 50%, combining it with his main job, but over the past few years it has grown into full-time employment, and now it's the only thing he does.

he does. he does. Yes. Yes. Now I feel truly truly truly privileged, privileged, privileged, having my family by my side, having the opportunity to take my brother on a trip like this, giving him the chance to see the World Cup final on Sunday, to feel the same way I felt. I felt. It's really cool, and I think having family around is a great thing. But this, of course, also comes with certain challenges. You know, when you don't want to ruin family ruin family ruin family relationships.

So I feel like we're always trying to find a balance, like, at like, at like, at Sunday dinner, we're talking about family and not about my race, you know? And this is probably the hardest part. part. In addition to your insane insane insane training regimen, you are also known for your extreme extreme extreme technical technical technical acumen. You acumen. You acumen. You intuitively know intuitively know intuitively know when to conserve energy, when to stick to your opponent, and when to break away. This sport is very strategic the strategic the strategic the deeper I deeper I deeper I dive into it.

So I want to talk a little bit about that, and also about the origins of your uphill running technique, which has become your signature style. signature style. So, on the technical side—this is something we talked about a little bit earlier—it was something we decided to develop at an early age because I felt it was important. But in recent years, as you know, with so many mass many mass many mass starts and sprints, I think I've developed a way of seeing things that I've always been interested in: how can I do things better , and I've always been very analytical in my actions.

And I think I brought that to my sport as well when I look at look at look at sprint sprint sprint races. There are things that I want to do. I kind of make a plan of what I can do and then I really spend time analyzing what I did last year. For example, how did I manage to get through this turn? I've always been fascinated by watching Formula 1 in terms of how they take corners and corners and corners and things like that that I can apply to apply to apply to my own sport, which hopefully will help me gain me gain me gain a little edge over my over my over my rivals.

And I think the tactical and technical aspects are what I find most interesting about my sport. sport. Yes. The only thing I can compare it to is watching a watching a watching a bunch sprint in a cycling race. So, if you're Mark Cavendish or any other sprinter, winning doesn't necessarily depend necessarily depend necessarily depend on who can produce the most power with their legs. Yes, it's their acceleration, but it's also their sixth sense of exactly where they need to be. You know, there are so many people in this group trying to get in the right position right position right position to be the first to cross the finish line.

And there are people like Mark Kav—they know exactly where to end up. They can see can see can see the future and predict where everyone will go. And you know, when you have these mass starts and you're doing sprints, a lot of it depends on where I need to be—in the right place, at the right time, to get in get in get in position to win the race. race. race. Yes, I agree. And I think I think if we did a did a did a full-strength 100-meter dash, like in track and field, yeah, I think I would...

I'm not necessarily... I don't think I'm the fastest, or fastest, or fastest, or at least not the one with the most most most power. But I think if we take it at the end of the race, it's different, because then when my legs , when everyone is a little tired, I think it's a completely different situation compared to when everyone is fresh. But also, uh, just like you said, having, I've done so many so many so many sprints that I already intuitively understand intuitively understand intuitively understand where I need to be at the right moment, and I think that's something that develops if you're a little bit analytical, but also if you've done it enough it enough it enough times.

times. Yes. Yes. This is something else. I think if you look at Mark Cavendish and see how many wins he has, you know , he's , he's , he's built up so much knowledge and experience over so many years about where he needs to be on different finishes: whether it's a climb or a flat or a gentle descent—he kind of knows it, and I think that's something you have to work on, work on, work on, but also it's just your idiosyncrasy, I think. think. Yes. Yes.

A sixth sense, as well as the muscle memory that comes with comes with comes with experience. experience. experience. Yes. Yes. Yes. Running uphill, this " Klebo run." So this is quite revolutionary. We're revolutionary. We're revolutionary. We're used to seeing people ski uphill in that V- that V- shaped stride, shaped stride, shaped stride, right? That's how everyone did it before. And the idea was that this is a moment to conserve energy. conserve energy. conserve energy. But instead you say, "I'm going to burn all my resources and just give it my all.

" " It seems like the amount of energy of energy of energy required to do this must be insane. So that 's a risk, right? When you do this. You can't do that all the time , because you're working at the absolute limit of your capabilities your capabilities your capabilities when you do that. I even read that you can't train like that often because it's very tiring. very tiring. Yes, and I think you might have noticed this a little bit during the Olympics: there were a few guys who almost exhausted their strength reserves in the quarterfinals and quarterfinals and quarterfinals and semifinals.

And when they got to the final and we picked up the pace a little bit, they just couldn't... just couldn't... just couldn't... They weren't capable of doing it. So this technique came about when my grandfather and I were working on a training session in Trondheim, where I was having problems with poor ski grip. And instead of instead of instead of applying more and more ointment, we decided, " Okay, I'll just jump off the track and try to run a little ." And I saw that saw that saw that I could actually hold on better, so I didn't need to apply more apply more apply more ointment.

And then we decided, "Okay, this is interesting." Let's interesting." Let's interesting." Let's come back tomorrow and then we'll fix the time. Uh, we start running from the bottom on one pair of skis with a little less grip, less grip, less grip, run up the hillside, and we time it. And the time is, let's say, 50 seconds. And we come back, put on another pair of skis with better grip and grip and grip and enter the track, but we slide like when skiing normally. And we see that, okay, we're wasting 52 seconds.

Okay, so we have a certain advantage. It's interesting in terms of how we can develop it, and that's how we started with the running part and then over the years just years just years just tried tried tried to improve it year after year. But like you said, we can't do it often because I burn so much energy and I know at the beginning of every season we have this race in Finland where there 's the last climb. And now everyone runs the same way . It's like everyone is running around copying you, but just because they've seen you do it doesn't mean they'll be able to do it.

do it. No, and you see that everyone at the end of the race, and the next day everyone who participated in the sprint, just has completely tired completely tired completely tired muscles. And the same goes for me, me, me, but you see, over the weekend, if you have to run three races, doing it on Friday—it's brutal Friday—it's brutal Friday—it's brutal for the next few days of competition. But on the other hand, I think that's what you also learn over the years , how to save as much as much as much energy as possible, but spend enough spend enough spend enough to win.

And so, I would say, it's an interesting story because it started a bit by accident during a training day in Trondheim, but it ended up being something that really changed the way we tackle we tackle we tackle ski climbs. ski climbs. This episode This episode was produced with the support of Pulsetto. I've been in the wellness field for a long time . I've seen a million gadgets million gadgets million gadgets come and go, all promising all promising all promising to solve one thing or another, but it turns out there's nothing behind it.

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went viral? went viral? Were you in your own world? own world? I realized this when I got back to the hotel and saw what was happening—my happening—my happening—my phone was just exploding. Because I knew that during the race, when I was running uphill, when I started the final stage, I picked up speed in the first half and saw that the others were lagging behind, I realized : "Okay, today I'm going to win." And when I gave it my all on the last climb, I felt like this was it, this was the moment.

I moment. I moment. I felt like every move I made was accurate, and I knew no one else would be able to keep up with that speed, especially speed, especially speed, especially considering we had covered the first half of the distance pretty quickly. And when you turn your head at the top of the hill and see that you have a huge lead—it was an incredible feeling. incredible feeling. But I didn't understand the scale because I didn't see what it looked like until I got back to the hotel, watched the video myself, and thought, "That looks pretty looks pretty looks pretty cool." cool." Pretty cool.

So I'm like: It's normal for you, people have seen you do it before, but to the average person it was like, "What's going on? "I've never seen anything like it." like it." Yes, but I think that's what's so cool about the Olympics—you can Olympics—you can broadcast broadcast broadcast sports all over the world that people don't usually don't usually don't usually pay attention to. And I think it's because it happens once every four years, it's something special. The Olympics are something special, and although for me personally, winning personally, winning personally, winning the year before, winning six winning six winning six gold medals in Trondheim, where I grew up, and hundreds of thousands of people in the forest the forest the forest watching me watching me watching me win the last 50 km race—that was also significant.

For significant. For significant. For me personally, it was a great success because it was happening in my hometown, but no one outside of it pays attention to the World Championships in Norway, but when you come to the Olympics, you just feel the difference. That's a whole other thing, but on the other hand, it was cool to finally have the Olympics in Europe, where it's a little easier for everyone to follow the events, you know? We had the Olympics in Pyeongchang and one in Beijing. I mean, it was a cool Olympics too, but it was harder because of the time zone and stuff, but having it in Europe, and knowing that in 2034 it's going to be in Salt Lake City, yeah, I think it's a special moment.

special moment. As I understand it, you were you were much much much more nervous before the World Championships in your hometown the year before the Olympics than you were at the Games themselves, and the fact that you won six won six won six gold medals there allowed you allowed you allowed you to relax for the Olympics. Do Olympics. Do Olympics. Do you think that experience in Trondheim the year before gave you the confidence and the ability to be yourself at the Olympics without giving in to all that anxiety and anxiety and anxiety and craziness so that you could could could put on put on put on those kinds of performances?

Yeah, I think so, because for me personally, that World Cup was so huge, you know? I was so nervous before the World Cup that I was kind of isolated from everyone, with only my father for father for father for months before the championship, and I didn't see anyone. I was completely completely completely focused with my father. And when the World Cup was over, I felt: "Okay, I'm really tired mentally." I feel like I'm just exhausted. And then, in the spring, I realized: " Okay, I need to change something about who I take with me and how I do things." One of my friends wanted to join before the Olympics, and we went to high-altitude to high-altitude to high-altitude training three times during the fall and winter.

It brought new energy, just having a friend with whom I was n't constantly thinking about the Olympics, we just had a good time. good time. good time. I did everything right . I trained well. I was recovering, I was eating healthy, but the important factor was that having fun became an integral part of my daily routine, and I think that really made a difference, because when I got to the Olympics, I thought: this is going to be fun, you know. I feel like of course I'm nervous, but it's something I know what to do with.

And then when the Olympics the Olympics the Olympics were over, you know, I was, I, I wasn't that exhausted. exhausted. I just felt good, it was an incredibly interesting incredibly interesting incredibly interesting experience. I wish it had lasted longer, you know, not like after the after the after the World Cup, where I just lay in bed for 6 days and was completely broken, but after the Olympics I just wanted to do it again, you know? you know? And this is an evolution compared to what it was a few years ago, when you were essentially isolating essentially isolating essentially isolating yourself and not wanting to see anyone because you were afraid of getting sick, not going to dinner and just just just not letting anyone near you.

I think that, especially after COVID, was something because for us as skiers, the worst thing that can happen is to get sick even a little bit, because then you can't perform and you can't compete. But compete. But compete. But after COVID and everything else, so many people started wearing masks. masks. Mhm. You travel, you try to try to try to protect yourself, you try to just stay away from people. people. Man is perceived as an as an as an impending threat. impending threat. impending threat. Yes.

And that's not the best mood for anyone to live with. live with. live with. No, and it's also an unhealthy unhealthy unhealthy lifestyle. And so I think when the World Cup was over, I told my father that this could n't go on, we needed to needed to needed to change something. I need to have other things in my life that distract me distract me distract me from being so strict, because it's unhealthy. And I think that's exactly what we did before the Olympics. I Olympics. I Olympics.

I mean, I mean, I mean, I was traveling in the winter and I didn't even think about a mask, you know, I, if it was before the World Cup, I wouldn't be here , you know? Now I am here and I feel very feel very feel very calm. People are coughing in the street, coughing next to me as I sit on the You are now in the very epicenter of the virus spread in New York, so so so I didn't care either, you know? And I think it's a much much much healthier way of life.

I'm so glad I understand this now and that I can. Yes. Yes. not to return to that state. that state. that state. Um, but you're still a maniac. You know, it's rare when someone has mediocre results at 14 , and at 15 says they're going to be the best in the world. So you have this innate level of self- confidence. And confidence. And confidence. And I'm curious how you train your train your train your thinking. Do you have any practices for this? Are this? Are this?

Are you paying attention to this? Are you investing in the mental game? Because we can discuss can discuss can discuss your week of physical training, physical training, physical training, but I'm interested in how you work with your consciousness. consciousness. I spend a lot of time training time training time training my mind, and I think one of the things , or what I spend the most time on, is that I do a thousand hours of training every year, and I do so many sessions where I just go out for 3 hours by myself in the woods, running through the mud, and for me it's kind of therapy therapy therapy where I work on my mind, because that's where I visualize the race.

That's where I, uh, talk to myself and try to find a balance of where I'm going to spend my energy and where there's no point in spending it. So, not to mention that I go to someone and talk to someone regularly, I would say that I still spend a lot of time on it . I . I . I mean, it's all in my head, but I still have a plan when I go out for a 3- hour workout. I feel like I really want want want to work on some things; For example, okay, this is what I would like to work on, the mental part.

And, uh, I think the mental part mental part mental part has shown me over the years how before the World Cup I would wake up the last 2 weeks, even though I was sick 4 weeks before the championship, I would wake up 2 weeks before it and I would have such a sore throat . Literally . Literally . Literally every morning. My measurements and everything else were in perfect order, but I just felt like felt like felt like I was making myself sick every morning. This is interesting.

And this happened for the first time in 2018. in 2018. in 2018. It's anxiety and fear of getting sick. getting sick. getting sick. Yes. Yes. Yes. caused physical caused physical caused physical symptoms. symptoms. symptoms. Because for me, the worst thing that could happen is getting sick. I am not afraid of losing. I'm not afraid that I won't succeed, but the worst thing for me is to get sick and not be able to go to the start to fight for fight for fight for victory. And it...

was better before the Olympics because I feel like I've adapted more adapted more adapted more to it. And I think when think when I get I get symptoms of a sore throat before the World Cup , it's always a sign that we're that we're that we're getting closer to something really something really something really important to me. You see, I seem to be accumulating this energy. So when I stand at the start of the World Cup, I know: yes, I had a sore throat, because it's already part of my routine.

I'm routine. I'm routine. I'm very motivated, I'm very nervous, and when I'm nervous—I give nervous—I give nervous—I give my best my best my best performance, because when something means a lot to me , it makes me a little better, you know? And I compare it to the World Cup stage, where I...well, I've done 200 of these races and I don't get as nervous as I do before the World Championships or the Olympics. It seems like it first happened in 2018, and since then it's happened at happened at happened at every championship, every championship, every championship, almost every time— this year it wasn't as much, but until the World Cup World Cup World Cup last year it was constant.

constant. I think the psychological game is even more important for you now , because , because , because everything has changed. You've been to several to several to several Olympics, you've been at the peak of your form for a long time, but because of your results last results last results last year, you're now under the spotlight. You're in New York, you were at the ESPYs last night , and , and , and tonight you're tonight you're tonight you're being honored at the Time 100 event. A lot of attention, a lot of obligations to sponsors, and that brings with it expectations.

Now you are the one who is expected to win. You are no longer the one who has to prove that you are the best. Now you have to maintain this status. Now you have to maintain that maintain that maintain that level of skill, and that's a whole different pressure that requires even more attention to how you feed your mind and whether your your your psychological state is tuned. Yes, I agree. Yes. Yes. Yes. And...I think, you know, just remembering what it was like when you were, I would say, a kid, even though I was 20 and I got to the World Cup.

Nobody expected me to win, you know, and it was just a feeling of you attacking, you attacking, you attacking, you know? It's more like it's Defense now. Defense now. It's more like a defense. And it affects you in some way, and you have to be aware of that, and also make some mental adjustments, mental adjustments, mental adjustments, because in the end, as my grandfather always said , it's just a race. race. Mm. Mm. eventually. But it's not that easy, you know, and the mental component is just as important to me as M-m.

physical, because I have always been very motivated motivated motivated to do the physical work it requires. requires. I don't think it's about training, you're training, you're training, you're always going to be training, you know, so hard. Yes, that's not a problem. I think the secret to success at the last Olympics was to enjoy it enjoy it and make it enjoyable. I remember talking to John John Florence on the podcast, a world champion world champion world champion surfer who had a hard time getting to the top and, you know, winning the winning the winning the world championship, so the expectations were so daunting for him , and his way back was to perfect this perfect this visualization practice where he would imagine every aspect of the wave and how he would ride it, but not in terms of the perfect ride, but in terms of the emotions that he wanted to feel on the wave, the same emotions that he had as a child; the more you could feel that joy and love for the sport, the more it took the pressure off and allowed him to get back to the top.

top. I think it makes sense, you know, and for me, the last Olympics last Olympics last Olympics showed that showed that showed that enjoying the enjoying the race, every race, every day before it, makes life makes life makes life a lot easier and better, you know? I do n't think I could have won those six races if I hadn't had a lot of fun on the road to the Olympics, because it's just...I mean, just...I mean, just...I mean, I'm I'm I'm away from home for 268 days.

I was away from home for so many days last year, and then you have to find the right way to pamper yourself on the road, and I think having fun is probably the best ingredient best ingredient best ingredient for living your best life. And for me, that's something I really learned really learned really learned last year. last year. last year. Mm. And you have a girlfriend , right? , right? , right? I have a girlfriend, so we were away from each other for a long time.

So we're a little bit used to it , but I think we And I feel like that's also something I learned last learned last learned last year: we need to and she's she's she's joining me joining me joining me a little bit more now. And I think it just makes sense, it's easier and much better, because I think I work better when everything is more balanced. balanced. And you're still going to split your time between Norway and Park City? City? City? That's the plan. So, Park City is basically your second home, right?

home, right? home, right? I would say yes. So, you rent the same house every year. Aha. Aha. I'm coming back at the end of August, staying for a month and a little over a month. So, Utah and Park City were so wonderful. I mean, it was just was just was just incredible. Have an 8 hour time difference with Norway. with Norway. with Norway. Surprisingly. You can just , you can just like You like You like You don't have to call people back right away . .

. You wake up, it's 2 o'clock in the afternoon, and you know that when you finish or when you go to the second training, everyone will already be back . . . home. They are sleeping. So, So, So, True. You train when they...Got it. So, when it's evening , it's completely quiet around you. You can just relax, relax, relax, unwind, and unwind, and unwind, and do what do what do what you enjoy. So , Park City is a place that I really I really I really love, and I've said this, I wish I could say this, I've said this to my father, that if there if there if there was more money in ski racing, I would love to have a house in Park City, just because I love this place.

Well, it's expensive - yes, it's really expensive, but my physical therapist lives in Midway, right next to Park City, so I spend a lot of time there, and yeah, Soldier Hollow, where the 2034 2034 2034 Olympics are going to be, is where we do a lot of roller-ski interval training while we're there, so there, so ... ... What's the What's the appeal? In appeal? In appeal? In height, in the community? Yeah, you know, it's really high, because it's 2,300 meters, and in Europe, if you go to a place where it's 2,300 meters, it's more or less the top of the pass.

So if you want to do roller skiing training, you either need to go down to the valley, train there, and then climb back up after the after the after the session is over. But in Park City, I put on my roller skis right in the garage, I can just drive out, I can ride on a flat track, I can climb up to 3,000 meters, or ride on hills. So there are so many opportunities and options there for quality training, and I mean, I mean, I mean, it's a it's a it's a very quiet place in August-September.

There are n't many people there, and the weather, weather, weather, compared to compared to compared to Norway, is just incredible, you know? Being able to walk around in shorts and T-shirts in September is completely different than in Norway, where we are used to wearing long- long- long- sleeved clothes, and it rains all the time. Yes. So 1000 hours of training per year. Tell us about a typical week of training during a period of intense intense intense training. training. training. For example, how many strength exercises are there?

What about roller skiers? How much time do you spend in the snow? What does it look like anyway? So, if you take a typical week typical week typical week in the summer, when we have the highest volume of training, from training, from training, from May 1 to the end of November, these are peak months in terms of volume. But, for example, last week I had 32 hours of training. I had 3 hours, no, 2.5 hours of intensity 3 training, which is the threshold level. threshold level.

threshold level. Mhm. Mhm. I have 2 hours of strength training per week. And then I have about 50% It's just the second zone. Although I actually hardly train in the second zone. second zone. second zone. Interesting. This is a really interesting moment. interesting moment. interesting moment. Tell me more about this . . So, we found out that if I work in zone two, it kind of destroys my fast-twitch muscle fibers. muscle fibers. Mhm. Mhm. So for myself, I determined that my intensity level is one— it's actually it's actually it's actually Zone One.

Zone One. Zone One. I I I spend 88% of my training in the first zone. Interesting. Interesting. Interesting. And so, for example, last week I trained for three hours in the morning in the first zone. Then another two hours in the afternoon in the first zone. This could be the first day. The second day I do a 30- minute warm-up, and then an hour or an hour and fifteen on the doorstep. Uh, and then I'm like, on, uh, roller skis roller skis roller skis mostly, or on a bike?

It's like, yeah, I would say, in a 32- hour week like I had last time, I probably run for three or four hours. Mhm. Mhm. 3-4 hours, or 4-5 hours by bike. And the rest are roller skaters. And roller skates—are they almost like, like these roller skates? roller skates? Yes, essentially longer roller skates. roller skates. roller skates. We have one pair for skating style skating style , which is similar to regular skating. And then there are the classic ones, they are also very similar to the classic move, but there is a grip, so you can move diagonally and diagonally and diagonally and push off.

push off. So, you have two different pairs of roller skis, one for each for each for each discipline. discipline. discipline. Mhm. Mhm. So most of the training during the week is rollerblading, and then we add... for example, last week I didn't run much because I knew I was going here. And here I didn't bring my skates with me, so here I'm just running. So I try to try to prioritize somehow. There were more were more were more roller skiers than usual last week. This week — more running than usual.

In the end, I would say 10% of my training is training is training is cycling, 20-25% is running. running. Of course. That's a lot. Wow, more running than cycling. cycling. cycling. Yes. So, more running than cycling. And also, about 5% or 5 to 7% of my workouts are strength exercises. And everything else is roller-skating and skiing in summer and winter. winter. Yes. There is a lot of confusion surrounding the second zone. It's interesting that you say that focusing on the second zone reduces your speed. This is a threat to your top top top speed.

But I think the confusion here is that when you're in such great shape, your second zone is not at all what others imagine, because it becomes quite exhausting when you're very trained. very trained. That is, maintaining a level slightly level slightly level slightly below the threshold for a long time affects time affects time affects recovery much recovery much recovery much more than in a less prepared person prepared person . Many people who start doing start doing endurance sports say, " Zone 2 is so slow. It slow.

It slow. It feels like I'm not doing anything." It's because you're out of shape. If you or Tadej Pogačar go out for a 4-hour workout in the second zone, you pay a high price for it that a person with worse training will not pay. Yeah, and the recovery aspect here is probably probably probably the most important because for me it makes the total volume total volume total volume too high, because when I run 50 km, I'm working almost at my threshold, you know? So I try to allocate an hour and a half or an hour and fifteen for fifteen for fifteen for threshold training threshold training threshold training instead of instead of instead of running for 3 hours in the second zone, you know ?

Because the threshold is closer to my race pace, while while while cyclists cyclists spend most of their competition in the second zone, you know? It's always been important for me to find out what exactly is needed for your sport, what are its requirements, its requirements, its requirements, you know? So I train in a way that I think is right for ski racing, even though I know there are many other ways to do it. But for me, the main thing was always to assess the overall impact and how much recovery recovery recovery each workout required.

This morning I ran for an hour on the treadmill at 7 miles per hour, and it was very easy. Now imagine the strain on your muscles if you have to run 9 miles per hour just because it's zone two, you know? So the impact on the body is also important also important also important to consider in the overall amount of training and training and training and recovery you recovery you recovery you do. do. And you need to be able to tick all the all the all the boxes and boxes and boxes and excel in each of these areas.

You need explosive need explosive need explosive speed, but also aerobic aerobic aerobic endurance, not just for long distances —your aerobic fitness will determine how quickly you recover your heart rate after running uphill. Do you understand what I mean? If it's in the middle of a race, how quickly you quickly you quickly you recover recover recover from such a sudden acceleration sudden acceleration sudden acceleration will determine your overall overall overall race result. race result. Yes. That's true, and I think that think that compared to running, it's easier to do, uh, cross-country skiing.

cross-country skiing. That is, you go all out on the climbs, but then there are descents where you recover and recover and recharge before the next climb, next climb, next climb, because in a 10 km distance you are actually going full speed full speed full speed on every climb. So you need to use the use the descents very wisely to maintain maintain maintain speed but speed but speed but at the same time conserve and restore and restore and restore energy. energy. Why more running than cycling? I would think that cycling is a better and safer way safer way safer way to train the cardiovascular system because there is no impact load.

load. Yes, but running is actually very actually very actually very similar to a classic ski move. So it's more like a bike than a bike, so when I do 3-hour running workouts in the mud, it's like... It's really challenging really challenging really challenging terrain, so it's hard to run, and we run with our heart rate monitored. So it's like you... You're imitating. You're imitating. You're imitating. You're imitating, uh, skiing a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. more with the help of running. So I think that's why, but I don't think running think running think running is necessarily is necessarily is necessarily critical critical critical to skiing success, because one year I had a hamstring injury and I could barely run.

And that was one of those years when I showed my best results best results best results at the World Cup. So, uh ... ... ... Who knows? Do you do regular regular regular lactate tests? lactate tests? lactate tests? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. We test We test lactate levels at almost every threshold every threshold every threshold workout, just workout, just workout, just to make sure we're on we're on we're on schedule and schedule and schedule and in the in the in the right zone. right zone.

Yes. What are your recovery practices recovery practices ? ? Oh, Oh, recovery practices depend a bit on whether on whether on whether you're at home or not, because it's not always easy to have everything you need at hand. I'm a huge fan of the sauna and ice bath. So I have it at home. You wouldn't be Scandinavian if you said otherwise. said otherwise. said otherwise. No, I know. That would be treason. I I I use the sauna and ice bath quite often, and also also also red light therapy.

And I think sleep, you know, sleep and healthy eating are key factors in my recovery. The recovery. The simplest things. Do you use you use you use compression, as they are called? Boots called? Boots ? ? ? Hyperice, yes. Hyperice, yes. Hyperice, yes. Yes, these are Hyperice. I have them, but I don't use them use them use them every day. They are part of my schedule, sometimes schedule, sometimes schedule, sometimes I want I want I want to use them, but sometimes it's better to just go to sleep, you know ?

An hour of sleep in the middle of the day after a hard workout—just workout—just workout—just lying in bed and sleeping— sleeping— sleeping— is the best recovery, more recovery, more recovery, more effective than anything else. Although, I think it's also also also good to have additional resources. Yes, or use them from time to time, but still sleep is the most important part. part. part. Yes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems the record you broke as the most decorated most decorated most decorated Winter Olympian Winter Olympian Winter Olympian previously belonged to Eric Hayden.

Hayden. Hayden. This is true. American American American speed skater who rose to fame at the 1980 Lake Placid Olympics . I'm old enough to to to remember him remember him remember him appearing on the cover of Sports Illustrated in a gold suit with those incredibly those incredibly those incredibly big legs, and to me he was a hero. I was just amazed by what he did. Before that, I did n't know anything about skating, skating, skating, and then I just got obsessed with this guy. He later became an became an orthopedic surgeon and appears to live in Park City.

City. Yes. Yes. So I'm wondering if you guys have met before? met before? met before? Yes, we are acquaintances. A couple of years ago, I think, two years ago, yes. We had dinner at my physical therapist's house. He was there too. It was very nice. nice. nice. This is really cool. It was cool was cool to chat with him, find out how they prepared their prepared their prepared their skates for the race, when they sharpened them, and all that other stuff. That was really interesting. It's obvious that he has a competitive spirit, so it was a great conversation and a great opportunity great opportunity great opportunity to get to know each other.

This was before the World Championships in Trondheim, so at that time no one had won six out of six yet. Yes. At the time, I didn't understand how this was even possible, but maybe I should invite him to dinner... to dinner... I think so. this year too. That's it. I it. I it. I think you're somewhat similar, because he opened this opened this opened this little-known sport little-known sport little-known sport to a Western audience. I think he changed the changed the changed the sport forever, and I think you're doing the same for ski racing.

In a very cool way. There are many people who speculate about speculate about speculate about how many gold medals you will win before you end your career. Will there be another Olympics, or two? Do you know if there can be 20 gold medals? Can medals? Can medals? Can we get closer to Phelps? Phelps? Phelps? We can't catch up, we can't catch up. compared to 23. We'll get a little closer. little closer. little closer. So are So are So are you ready... you ready... If you If you optimized everything and participated in two more Olympics, you could eventually...

eventually... eventually... have two even more perfect Olympics, perfect Olympics, perfect Olympics, then you could be 23, but but but you are the best Olympian of all time. I mean... I mean... I mean... This is serious. This is quite serious. quite serious. quite serious. This is quite serious. Yes, I think it's going to be hard, but... First of all, I'll say that I'll do do do one more first, but if I know myself well... the next one after that is in Salt Lake City. It will be in Park City or in Soldier Hollow, near Park City, where I spent so much time.

So for me, finishing my career in Park City would be a dream come true, but that's still eight years away. Um, well, I don't know if that's realistic, but I'll do my best best best to stay in shape, take care of my body and all that; and then we'll look year by year, but, um, I don't think I, um, can't promise right now that I'll perform in 2034. But, um, I think I have a certain, it's kind of a dream–to do it . But, um, I'll take the first 4 years, and then...

we'll see. But, of course, the goal is to get a little closer to Phelps, although 23 will be difficult. difficult. You can You can only control only control only control part of it, you know, but I'm sure that whatever you can control, you will control. control. control. At least I will try very hard. Yes. Um, well, congratulations on all your all your all your successes, dude. I'm, I'm your fan, and, um, I'm here to cheer for you, dude. Um, you're one of the good guys, and it's nice to see you at this level.

Um, you not only win, but you conduct yourself with such admirable admirable admirable integrity and dignity, and I think you're a shining example, shining example, shining example, um, for many young people around the world, um, you know, in striving for better, and, um, I salute you, my friend. Thank you. I am grateful for this . . . Thank you for taking the time to chat with me today. And enjoy New enjoy New York. York. York. Necessarily. Thank you. OK. Goodbye.