The World’s Greatest Winter Olympian Shares the Secrets to His Success

And here is Klebo! Allow Allow The amount of energy The amount of energy The amount of energy you put into you put into you put into this must be just this must be just this must be just insane. insane. insane. I saw this video myself and I saw this video myself and I saw this video myself and thought, "That looks thought, "That looks thought, "That looks pretty good." pretty good." pretty good." Hot. Hot. Johannes Klebo! Johannes Klebo! 13-time 13-time 13-time Olympic Olympic Olympic medalist, 11 gold medalist, 11 gold medalist, 11 gold medals, the most medals, the most medals, the most gold gold gold medals at a single medals at a single medals at a single Winter Olympic Winter Olympic Winter Olympic Games, the most Games, the most career gold medals of career gold medals of any any any Winter Winter Winter Olympic athlete. It's just Olympic athlete. It's just Olympic athlete. It's just incredible what you've incredible what you've incredible what you've achieved. achieved. achieved. I've always had I've always had I've always had this mindset: I this mindset: I this mindset: I hate losing hate losing . The feeling of winning a . The feeling of winning a . The feeling of winning a race is amazing. The race is amazing. The race is amazing. The feeling of feeling of feeling of coming second is much coming second is much coming second is much worse. It's a mental worse. It's a mental worse. It's a mental game. You say to yourself, " game. You say to yourself, " Okay, let's go over the Okay, let's go over the Okay, let's go over the next hill, another next hill, another next hill, another hill." And you hill." And you hill." And you keep keep keep tricking your tricking your tricking your brain into moving a little brain into moving a little brain into moving a little further. further. further. So, 1000 hours So, 1000 hours So, 1000 hours of training, what does that of training, what does that of training, what does that look like? look like? look like? 2 and a half hours 2 and a half hours Oh, really? How interesting. You are known as the person You are known as the person who modernized this who modernized this who modernized this sport and brought it sport and brought it sport and brought it to the level of 2026, to the level of 2026, to the level of 2026, although in the United although in the United although in the United States it is, you know, a States it is, you know, a States it is, you know, a fairly little-known fairly little-known fairly little-known sport. I would say sport. I would say that most people, that most people, that most people, at least in the at least in the at least in the United States, United States, United States, had almost no connection had almost no connection had almost no connection to the sport until they to the sport until they to the sport until they saw you saw you saw you literally running literally running literally running uphill on skis at uphill on skis at uphill on skis at 10.2 mph, a 10.2 mph, a 10.2 mph, a sub-6-minute sub-6-minute sub-6-minute mile pace, and it caused mile pace, and it caused mile pace, and it caused quite a stir when quite a stir when quite a stir when the video went viral. the video went viral. And it has probably done And it has probably done more to more to more to popularize the popularize the popularize the sport than anyone sport than anyone sport than anyone else in the last 30 else in the last 30 else in the last 30 or 40 years. or 40 years. I guess that's true, and I I guess that's true, and I think it's good that people think it's good that people think it's good that people can see the numbers, can see the numbers, can see the numbers, you know, when you you know, when you you know, when you see that we have see that we have see that we have kilometers per hour kilometers per hour kilometers per hour and you realize: okay, that's and you realize: okay, that's and you realize: okay, that's 18.2 kilometers per 18.2 kilometers per 18.2 kilometers per hour on the hour on the hour on the climb. You see climb. You see climb. You see the slope. Just so the slope. Just so the slope. Just so people understand it better and people understand it better and people understand it better and get to know it better. get to know it better. Because that way it's easier for people to truly understand how quickly to truly understand how quickly we climb these hills we climb these hills . But yeah, it was a . But yeah, it was a . But yeah, it was a cool moment cool moment to see so many to see so many to see so many people pay attention people pay attention people pay attention to what we were doing. to what we were doing. I mean, cross-country skiing has I mean, cross-country skiing has always been a always been a always been a small small small sport, but it's getting sport, but it's getting sport, but it's getting bigger, and I think bigger, and I think bigger, and I think my goal was my goal was my goal was to tell and to tell and to tell and show people show people show people how healthy it is how healthy it is because you're because you're using your legs, your upper using your legs, your upper using your legs, your upper body, and you're also body, and you're also body, and you're also building building building endurance. You endurance. You endurance. You train these two or three train these two or three train these two or three things at the same time when things at the same time when things at the same time when you're on the track. you're on the track. And it's also a very And it's also a very low risk of low risk of low risk of injury, injury, injury, unlike running, unlike running, unlike running, cycling or cycling or cycling or anything like that. anything like that. Few sports Few sports simultaneously engage the simultaneously engage the simultaneously engage the upper body, upper body, upper body, lower body, and lower body, and lower body, and endurance. And this is endurance. And this is endurance. And this is Swimming. Swimming. Swimming. Swimming. Swimming. Swimming. Swimming would probably Swimming would probably Swimming would probably be the be the be the closest comparison closest comparison . . . This is probably the This is probably the This is probably the closest option. And closest option. And closest option. And I think that these two I think that these two I think that these two sports, or sports, or sports, or sports in general, are sports in general, are sports in general, are very effective for very effective for very effective for maintaining good maintaining good maintaining good shape and health. In shape and health. In shape and health. In recent years, we recent years, we recent years, we have seen that people have seen that people have seen that people are paying more are paying more are paying more attention to their health attention to their health , trying to do , trying to do , trying to do the right exercises, the right exercises, eat right, etc., and I eat right, etc., and I think it's great because think it's great because think it's great because today we lead a today we lead a today we lead a much healthier much healthier much healthier lifestyle than lifestyle than lifestyle than before. before. Mhm. There is this There is this feeling in the endurance athlete community. Like, feeling in the endurance athlete community. Like, feeling in the endurance athlete community. Like, if you're an if you're an if you're an endurance athlete—being a endurance athlete—being a endurance athlete—being a runner or a runner or a runner or a triathlete, well, triathlete, well, triathlete, well, doing one of doing one of doing one of those sports— those sports— that's one thing. But the that's one thing. But the that's one thing. But the sport that commands the sport that commands the sport that commands the most respect most respect most respect among those among those among those dedicated to dedicated to dedicated to endurance is cross-country skiing endurance is cross-country skiing endurance is cross-country skiing . They . They . They say that that's where the say that that's where the say that that's where the most resilient people most resilient people most resilient people in the world live. It's like a different in the world live. It's like a different in the world live. It's like a different breed of people. The level of breed of people. The level of breed of people. The level of endurance, strength, and endurance, strength, and endurance, strength, and agility agility agility required to required to required to reach an elite reach an elite reach an elite level in this level in this level in this sport is sport is sport is unmatched by any unmatched by any unmatched by any other type of other type of other type of endurance sport. It's like, endurance sport. It's like, endurance sport. It's like, you know, the pinnacle of you know, the pinnacle of you know, the pinnacle of fitness. I want fitness. I want fitness. I want you to explain the you to explain the you to explain the rigors of this rigors of this rigors of this sport that you sport that you sport that you dominate. What does it dominate. What does it dominate. What does it take to take to take to compete at the compete at the compete at the highest level in highest level in highest level in ski racing? ski racing? Oh, I think there are many Oh, I think there are many factors that are factors that are factors that are important. But one important. But one important. But one thing that is definitely thing that is definitely thing that is definitely needed is VO2 max, it's needed is VO2 max, it's needed is VO2 max, it's important because during a important because during a important because during a race we are constantly race we are constantly race we are constantly moving up and moving up and moving up and down. Let's say a down. Let's say a down. Let's say a 10 km distance is 10 km distance is 10 km distance is actually 22 minutes at actually 22 minutes at actually 22 minutes at full speed from full speed from full speed from start to finish. There are start to finish. There are start to finish. There are a lot of ups and a lot of ups and a lot of ups and downs, but it is at the downs, but it is at the downs, but it is at the finish line that your VO2 max finish line that your VO2 max finish line that your VO2 max should be should be should be high enough to allow you to high enough to allow you to high enough to allow you to perform at your perform at your perform at your highest level. And highest level. And highest level. And another aspect is the another aspect is the another aspect is the technical part, and I technical part, and I technical part, and I think it's think it's think it's important in many important in many important in many sports. I think sports. I think sports. I think this is just as important in ski racing this is just as important in ski racing this is just as important in ski racing as as as in many other in many other in many other disciplines, because disciplines, because disciplines, because you need to have the you need to have the you need to have the right technique right technique right technique on the appropriate on the appropriate on the appropriate terrain and slopes. terrain and slopes. If the climb has a 5% slope, one technique is needed slope, one technique is needed slope, one technique is needed , and if it has a 6% slope, , and if it has a 6% slope, it is a little it is a little it is a little different. And it different. And it different. And it changes every changes every changes every second. So finding second. So finding second. So finding the right technical the right technical the right technical balance on each balance on each balance on each individual section of the individual section of the individual section of the track is really difficult. track is really difficult. Also, I think it's Also, I think it's important to just important to just important to just have the stamina have the stamina have the stamina to compete in to compete in to compete in cold air. cold air. cold air. Plus, my race Plus, my race Plus, my race weekend can weekend can weekend can range from 1.3 km range from 1.3 km —I don't know how many —I don't know how many —I don't know how many miles that is, probably a little miles that is, probably a little miles that is, probably a little less than a mile. less than a mile. Or a little less, yes. Or a little less, yes. A little less than a mile, and A little less than a mile, and A little less than a mile, and then we have a then we have a then we have a 50km distance, which means 50km distance, which means 50km distance, which means about 2 hours of about 2 hours of about 2 hours of racing. And a sprint racing. And a sprint racing. And a sprint lasts a little less than 3 lasts a little less than 3 lasts a little less than 3 minutes. minutes. minutes. Yes. Yes. And there are all the distances in between And there are all the distances in between , which means , which means , which means you need fast-twitch you need fast-twitch you need fast-twitch muscle fibers for muscle fibers for muscle fibers for sprinting, but also the sprinting, but also the sprinting, but also the endurance to endurance to endurance to cover 50 km. I think that's the cover 50 km. I think that's the beauty of this sport, beauty of this sport, which has always which has always which has always been the main been the main been the main incentive for me—to be able to incentive for me—to be able to incentive for me—to be able to do everything. do everything. do everything. Yes. So for those who are Yes. So for those who are Yes. So for those who are unfamiliar with unfamiliar with unfamiliar with Johannes, let's Johannes, let's Johannes, let's get them up to speed get them up to speed get them up to speed . You are a 13-time . You are a 13-time . You are a 13-time Olympic Olympic Olympic medalist, with 11 medalist, with 11 medalist, with 11 gold medals. You gold medals. You gold medals. You hold the record for the hold the record for the hold the record for the most gold most gold most gold medals won at a medals won at a medals won at a single Winter single Winter single Winter Olympic Games. The Olympic Games. The Olympic Games. The largest number of largest number of career gold medals among all career gold medals among all Winter Olympians. Winter Olympians. Your achievements are Your achievements are simply incredible, and simply incredible, and simply incredible, and no less impressive is the no less impressive is the no less impressive is the fact that you fact that you fact that you win both win both win both sprint sprint sprint distances and distances and distances and distances up to 50 km. This is distances up to 50 km. This is distances up to 50 km. This is equivalent to equivalent to equivalent to someone winning someone winning someone winning gold in the 400-meter gold in the 400-meter gold in the 400-meter dash and dash and dash and then also winning the then also winning the then also winning the marathon. This is simply marathon. This is simply marathon. This is simply incomprehensible. incomprehensible. So how do you So how do you maintain the maintain the maintain the flexibility and flexibility and flexibility and agility to agility to agility to dominate both dominate both dominate both sprint sprint sprint distances and the distances and the distances and the longest races of longest races of longest races of up to 50 km? This is simply up to 50 km? This is simply up to 50 km? This is simply amazing. amazing. Yes, I think that was Yes, I think that was my goal since my goal since my goal since childhood. My grandfather is my childhood. My grandfather is my coach, he is coach, he is coach, he is now 82 years old. He was now 82 years old. He was now 82 years old. He was always my coach. He was the one who always my coach. He was the one who always my coach. He was the one who picked me up picked me up picked me up from school and brought me from school and brought me from school and brought me to training. to training. to training. We We We went to ski went to ski went to ski training every weekend throughout the training every weekend throughout the training every weekend throughout the winter. So he winter. So he winter. So he played a huge played a huge played a huge role in my success, role in my success, role in my success, but I would say the but I would say the but I would say the key factor key factor key factor was that we started was that we started was that we started with the goal of winning the with the goal of winning the with the goal of winning the sprint race. That's where sprint race. That's where sprint race. That's where we started, because we started, because we started, because when I was 18-19 when I was 18-19 when I was 18-19 years old, we realized: it's years old, we realized: it's years old, we realized: it's easier for me to easier for me to easier for me to succeed in sprinting than succeed in sprinting than succeed in sprinting than in cross-country in cross-country in cross-country skiing. skiing. So we decided to focus So we decided to focus more on more on more on sprinting when sprinting when sprinting when I was 17-19 years old. And I was 17-19 years old. And I was 17-19 years old. And when I became an adult when I became an adult when I became an adult and was able to participate in the and was able to participate in the and was able to participate in the World Cup, we World Cup, we showed showed results in the sprint from the first day. results in the sprint from the first day. Mhm. When we were able to When we were able to train for 1,000 train for 1,000 train for 1,000 hours, which is a hours, which is a hours, which is a certain limit for us, we certain limit for us, we certain limit for us, we decided to shift our decided to shift our decided to shift our focus from sprinting to focus from sprinting to focus from sprinting to distance running. This was distance running. This was distance running. This was around my around my around my 20s, so we 20s, so we 20s, so we gradually moved gradually moved gradually moved from sprint from sprint from sprint training to training to training to more more more distance training. We distance training. We distance training. We added altitude training added altitude training added altitude training . We added . We added . We added a lot more a lot more a lot more long classes. long classes. My typical My typical sprint sprint sprint week used to be week used to be week used to be around 18-21 hours. around 18-21 hours. Now, if I Now, if I train for 21 hours, that's train for 21 hours, that's train for 21 hours, that's considered an easy considered an easy considered an easy week. week. week. Yes. Yes. Yes. Now we are closer to 25-30 Now we are closer to 25-30 Now we are closer to 25-30 hours, which is about the hours, which is about the hours, which is about the average for the average for the year. We changed our year. We changed our focus to focus to focus to longer workouts— longer workouts— longer workouts— three hours almost three hours almost three hours almost every day—to gradually every day—to gradually every day—to gradually build build build endurance. I think endurance. I think endurance. I think it proved that you can it proved that you can it proved that you can maintain your maintain your maintain your sprinting skills sprinting skills while developing your while developing your while developing your distance skills, so distance skills, so distance skills, so now I can do both now I can do both now I can do both . . That's reasonable. This is That's reasonable. This is patient. And this is the patient. And this is the patient. And this is the right approach, because right approach, because right approach, because if you are fast and if you are fast and if you are fast and have technique, you have technique, you have technique, you can always can always can always build up your build up your build up your endurance over time, endurance over time, endurance over time, you have you have you have plenty of years to do so. And plenty of years to do so. And plenty of years to do so. And gradually, step by gradually, step by gradually, step by step, increasing step, increasing step, increasing distance while distance while distance while maintaining maintaining maintaining speed—this is speed—this is speed—this is actually a very actually a very actually a very smart approach. You smart approach. You smart approach. You can't do it the can't do it the can't do it the other way around. It is impossible other way around. It is impossible to specialize in to specialize in long distances first and long distances first and long distances first and then expect then expect then expect speed to come speed to come speed to come later. later. No, because as we see over No, because as we see over the years, you the years, you the years, you get slower as you age. get slower as you age. So it was important for me So it was important for me to use to use to use the momentum I the momentum I the momentum I had at 18–19, had at 18–19, had at 18–19, to work on my technique to work on my technique , to gain strength to , to gain strength to , to gain strength to be fast and be fast and be fast and agile, and then agile, and then agile, and then shift the emphasis a little bit shift the emphasis a little bit shift the emphasis a little bit to to to endurance, but endurance, but endurance, but maintain my speed maintain my speed maintain my speed qualities, instead of qualities, instead of qualities, instead of doing the opposite, doing the opposite, doing the opposite, because it's hard to fight the fact that because it's hard to fight the fact that because it's hard to fight the fact that you're getting older, and you're getting older, and you're getting older, and that's important to me. that's important to me. Right now I feel like Right now I feel like I need to I need to I need to focus a little focus a little focus a little more on sprinting, more on sprinting, more on sprinting, do some do some do some training to training to training to stay in shape, stay in shape, stay in shape, because every year because every year because every year you feel like you're getting you feel like you're getting you feel like you're getting a little slower. We're a little slower. We're a little slower. We're not too old not too old to not run sprints to not run sprints , but somewhere around the age of 32–33, there , but somewhere around the age of 32–33, there , but somewhere around the age of 32–33, there comes a point when comes a point when comes a point when you realize that it you realize that it you realize that it really gets hard. really gets hard. I'm sure other I'm sure other athletes in your athletes in your athletes in your sport sport sport approached it the same way approached it the same way approached it the same way . But that . But that . But that still doesn't explain why still doesn't explain why still doesn't explain why you're so much better than you're so much better than you're so much better than others. others. No, No, it's a rational it's a rational it's a rational approach, a very good approach, a very good approach, a very good long-term path long-term path long-term path to mastery in to mastery in to mastery in sports, but I'm sports, but I'm sports, but I'm sure there are other sure there are other sure there are other people who do the people who do the people who do the same. same. I guess that's true, but I... I guess that's true, but I... So I want you to So I want you to So I want you to formulate this, I want formulate this, I want you to voice what is you to voice what is you to voice what is usually usually usually kept quiet. Why are you kept quiet. Why are you kept quiet. Why are you so much better? What is the so much better? What is the so much better? What is the factor that sets factor that sets factor that sets you apart? It you apart? It 's hard to say because I 's hard to say because I feel like there are a lot of feel like there are a lot of feel like there are a lot of athletes who athletes who athletes who do everything right, do everything right, do everything right, but I've always had but I've always had but I've always had this mindset—I this mindset—I this mindset—I can't stand can't stand can't stand losing. I losing. I losing. I mean, winning a mean, winning a mean, winning a race is an race is an race is an incredible feeling, incredible feeling, incredible feeling, but coming in but coming in but coming in second place is second place is second place is a lot worse. Is a lot worse. Is it because you it because you feel like you've feel like you've feel like you've failed yourself? failed yourself? failed yourself? Is it intrinsic Is it intrinsic Is it intrinsic motivation or is it because motivation or is it because motivation or is it because you lost to you lost to you lost to someone else? someone else? someone else? No, I always say that I No, I always say that I No, I always say that I compete with myself compete with myself . It's always been about . It's always been about . It's always been about me and being me and being me and being able to challenge my able to challenge my able to challenge my own thoughts, because own thoughts, because own thoughts, because I feel like a I feel like a I feel like a 50K race is a mind game, 50K race is a mind game, 50K race is a mind game, you know? It's about you know? It's about you know? It's about yourself, how you yourself, how you yourself, how you try to trick try to trick try to trick your mind, telling your mind, telling your mind, telling yourself, "Okay, let's just yourself, "Okay, let's just yourself, "Okay, let's just get over the next get over the next get over the next hill, one more," and you hill, one more," and you hill, one more," and you keep tricking keep tricking keep tricking yourself into moving yourself into moving yourself into moving on, and in the end on, and in the end on, and in the end you cross the finish you cross the finish you cross the finish line, and if you line, and if you line, and if you did everything right, you did everything right, you did everything right, you come in first; and come in first; and come in first; and if I couldn't if I couldn't fool myself enough, that's what fool myself enough, that's what I tell myself. I feel like this is where I tell myself. I feel like this is where I tell myself. I feel like this is where I'm I'm I'm failing myself. So for failing myself. So for failing myself. So for me it was always me it was always me it was always about myself and about myself and about myself and how I could play how I could play how I could play this game against myself, and this game against myself, and this game against myself, and for me that for me that for me that was always a driving force. was always a driving force. I hate I hate losing more than losing more than losing more than anyone else. Here is anyone else. Here is anyone else. Here is your answer. your answer. your answer. And that's exactly right. It has And that's exactly right. It has And that's exactly right. It has always been like this. I mean, it always been like this. I mean, it always been like this. I mean, it was like that was like that was like that when I played football as a when I played football as a when I played football as a child, you know. It's child, you know. It's child, you know. It's almost the same as when almost the same as when almost the same as when we play cards at home with our we play cards at home with our we play cards at home with our family. family. You know, I You know, I just have this feeling that just have this feeling that just have this feeling that when there's a competition, when there's when there's a competition, when there's when there's a competition, when there's something at stake, I something at stake, I something at stake, I feel like I just feel like I just feel like I just love love to win. to win. It seems like it. It seems like it. The interesting thing is that this is The interesting thing is that this is not at all the story not at all the story not at all the story that most people that most people that most people might imagine. Yes, might imagine. Yes, might imagine. Yes, your grandfather was always your grandfather was always your grandfather was always there. Yes, your mother there. Yes, your mother there. Yes, your mother was also a skier. was also a skier. was also a skier. Your grandfather gave you your Your grandfather gave you your Your grandfather gave you your first skis when you first skis when you first skis when you were about 2 years old, but were about 2 years old, but were about 2 years old, but it wasn't like it wasn't like it wasn't like now I'm on skis and it's now I'm on skis and it's now I'm on skis and it's just a clean path to just a clean path to just a clean path to success with no obstacles. success with no obstacles. I mean, you were I mean, you were pretty average in pretty average in pretty average in your younger years. I read your younger years. I read your younger years. I read about your athletic about your athletic about your athletic experience at about 14 experience at about 14 experience at about 14 years old, and you were years old, and you were years old, and you were much smaller than the much smaller than the much smaller than the others. It felt like others. It felt like others. It felt like you had some you had some you had some athletic talent, athletic talent, athletic talent, but you were pretty but you were pretty but you were pretty average at everything else. average at everything else. Yes, I mean, Yes, I mean, I I I started out pretty started out pretty started out pretty well as a child. And in well as a child. And in well as a child. And in Norway, we don't Norway, we don't Norway, we don't record record record children's times when they children's times when they children's times when they compete, compete, compete, at least until they're 10 years old, I at least until they're 10 years old, I at least until they're 10 years old, I think. think. Mhm. So, but since you So, but since you start going to start going to start going to training when you're training when you're training when you're 5-6 years old. I started then too 5-6 years old. I started then too 5-6 years old. I started then too , and from the age of 5-6 to 10, , and from the age of 5-6 to 10, , and from the age of 5-6 to 10, we would, let's say, we would, let's say, we would, let's say, waste time, but waste time, but record the results record the results randomly. The one randomly. The one who was first on the who was first on the who was first on the results list results list results list was not necessarily was not necessarily was not necessarily the one who won the one who won the one who won the race. It was the race. It was the race. It was kind of random every kind of random every kind of random every weekend when you weekend when you weekend when you competed, and I think back competed, and I think back competed, and I think back then I was always then I was always then I was always looking at the time: how did I looking at the time: how did I looking at the time: how did I perform compared to my perform compared to my perform compared to my friends and others? friends and others? But when we But when we turned 14, people turned 14, people turned 14, people started to started to started to grow up a bit. I grow up a bit. I grow up a bit. I was still very, very was still very, very was still very, very small, and it was small, and it was small, and it was like...well, wrestling with a like...well, wrestling with a like...well, wrestling with a man. It was man. It was man. It was a child versus a child versus a child versus a man, you see, a man, you see, a man, you see, there was a huge there was a huge there was a huge difference. So I was difference. So I was difference. So I was just in my just in my just in my area where there were area where there were area where there were about 40 people competing, and I about 40 people competing, and I about 40 people competing, and I was somewhere in the middle, was somewhere in the middle, was somewhere in the middle, probably twentieth. probably twentieth. Aha. Aha. Just in the middle. Just in the middle. Just in the middle. How did that fit in with How did that fit in with How did that fit in with your hatred of your hatred of your hatred of losing? losing? losing? No, it was terrible. No, it was terrible. No, it was terrible. My mom would tell me every week, My mom would tell me every week, My mom would tell me every week, “Okay, we “Okay, we “Okay, we need to find something need to find something need to find something else to do. "It else to do. "It else to do. "It can't go on like this can't go on like this can't go on like this ." But then we... ." But then we... I think, together with my I think, together with my I think, together with my grandfather, we found a grandfather, we found a grandfather, we found a way, or started way, or started way, or started working on what working on what working on what I could do to I could do to I could do to become better, because become better, because become better, because someday I'll start to someday I'll start to someday I'll start to grow up a little bit. So we grow up a little bit. So we grow up a little bit. So we decided: okay, decided: okay, decided: okay, let's focus on what let's focus on what let's focus on what we can we can we can influence, which is influence, which is influence, which is my technique. my technique. my technique. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. I can't do anything about it I can't do anything about it I can't do anything about it . I'm small, . I'm small, . I'm small, so I just have to so I just have to so I just have to wait. And that's when wait. And that's when wait. And that's when we started to really we started to really focus on focus on technique: how we technique: how we technique: how we work with the poles, how we work with the poles, how we work with the poles, how we run, everything we run, everything we run, everything we do do do today. Balance on the today. Balance on the today. Balance on the skis became a key skis became a key skis became a key factor in my success, factor in my success, factor in my success, I would say, and it's something I would say, and it's something I would say, and it's something we developed from the age of 14 to 17 we developed from the age of 14 to 17 we developed from the age of 14 to 17 , when I finally , when I finally , when I finally started to grow a little. started to grow a little. At 15, you declared At 15, you declared that you would become the best, that you would become the best, that you would become the best, or set or set or set yourself such a goal, even though yourself such a goal, even though yourself such a goal, even though at 14, nothing at 14, nothing at 14, nothing indicated such a indicated such a indicated such a possibility. But possibility. But possibility. But some some some interesting things happened during that time. First of all interesting things happened during that time. First of all , this is happening against the backdrop of a , this is happening against the backdrop of a , this is happening against the backdrop of a certain certain certain cultural cultural cultural context, about which context, about which a lot has been written and a lot has been written and talked about recently. Well, what's talked about recently. Well, what's talked about recently. Well, what's going on with going on with going on with Norway? Norway is Norway? Norway is Norway? Norway is just just just having its having its having its moment right now. Look at the moment right now. Look at the moment right now. Look at the exceptional results exceptional results we see at the we see at the we see at the Olympic Olympic Olympic Games level. We've seen it at the Games level. We've seen it at the Games level. We've seen it at the World Cup over the World Cup over the World Cup over the last few last few last few weeks. We have you. weeks. We have you. weeks. We have you. We have Ingebrigtsen. We have Ingebrigtsen. We have Ingebrigtsen. We have, you know, Gustav We have, you know, Gustav We have, you know, Gustav and Christian in and Christian in and Christian in triathlon. We see triathlon. We see triathlon. We see such an incredible such an incredible such an incredible galaxy of exceptional galaxy of exceptional galaxy of exceptional athletes like you that it's athletes like you that it's hard for the American mind to hard for the American mind to comprehend. How is this comprehend. How is this comprehend. How is this even possible? And even possible? And even possible? And when you find out that, they when you find out that, they when you find out that, they say, they don't keep an account say, they don't keep an account say, they don't keep an account until the age of 13. until the age of 13. until the age of 13. They have a completely different They have a completely different They have a completely different culture of attitude culture of attitude culture of attitude towards victories and defeats. towards victories and defeats. And now it's become And now it's become almost a model for almost a model for almost a model for parents in children's parents in children's parents in children's sports on how to do it sports on how to do it sports on how to do it right, which I think is right, which I think is right, which I think is very interesting. And very interesting. And very interesting. And within that, there was a within that, there was a within that, there was a trainer who came up with a trainer who came up with a trainer who came up with a whole series of challenges whole series of challenges whole series of challenges for people like you—the for people like you—the "rune" challenge. Can you "rune" challenge. Can you "rune" challenge. Can you tell me tell me tell me a little more about this? Because a little more about this? Because a little more about this? Because I find it I find it I find it extremely interesting. extremely interesting. extremely interesting. Yes, that's really Yes, that's really Yes, that's really interesting. So, my interesting. So, my interesting. So, my coach at the time had the coach at the time had the coach at the time had the goal of getting as many goal of getting as many goal of getting as many kids to kids to kids to attend as many attend as many attend as many practices as possible. This practices as possible. This practices as possible. This was his main was his main was his main goal. And he goal. And he goal. And he introduced a kind of introduced a kind of introduced a kind of challenge: you challenge: you challenge: you received points received points received points every time you were at every time you were at every time you were at training. So, you training. So, you training. So, you got one point. And got one point. And got one point. And at every at every at every training session we training session we training session we organized some kind of organized some kind of organized some kind of relay races. We were divided relay races. We were divided relay races. We were divided into four or five into four or five into four or five teams, and we teams, and we teams, and we competed in a relay race. competed in a relay race. But it wasn't just about But it wasn't just about running back and forth as running back and forth as running back and forth as fast as possible, like in a fast as possible, like in a fast as possible, like in a regular ski regular ski regular ski race. We were running race. We were running race. We were running on the same ski. Yes, on the same ski. Yes, on the same ski. Yes, of course. Good. We of course. Good. We of course. Good. We took off one ski. We took off one ski. We took off one ski. We ran with one ran with one ran with one stick. We ran without stick. We ran without stick. We ran without poles. There were so many poles. There were so many poles. There were so many different ways different ways different ways to pass such a to pass such a to pass such a relay. And you relay. And you relay. And you received points received points received points depending on how you depending on how you depending on how you performed in this performed in this performed in this relay race. And relay race. And relay race. And at the end of the season, at the end of the season, at the end of the season, when everything when everything when everything was over, we would was over, we would was over, we would organize organize pursuit races, where we pursuit races, where we would start depending would start depending would start depending on the number of points on the number of points on the number of points accumulated over the year. And accumulated over the year. And accumulated over the year. And then it became then it became then it became clear: "Okay, those clear: "Okay, those clear: "Okay, those who attended a lot of who attended a lot of who attended a lot of training had an training had an training had an advantage in the advantage in the advantage in the pursuit." pursuit." So for me, it was So for me, it was like a goal—it was good to like a goal—it was good to like a goal—it was good to do Runa's do Runa's do Runa's Challenge at the end of the Challenge at the end of the Challenge at the end of the season because it season because it season because it showed that you showed that you showed that you not only participated not only participated not only participated a lot of times, but you also a lot of times, but you also a lot of times, but you also showed up to showed up to showed up to practice consistently, practice consistently, practice consistently, you know? And I you know? And I you know? And I feel like, yes, for feel like, yes, for feel like, yes, for me, looking me, looking me, looking back, it was a back, it was a back, it was a perfect way perfect way perfect way to get as to get as to get as many kids involved in the many kids involved in the many kids involved in the classes as possible. And I think it's a classes as possible. And I think it's a classes as possible. And I think it's a kind of kind of kind of culture in Norway. culture in Norway. culture in Norway. And, as you said, there are And, as you said, there are discussions going on right now about what we discussions going on right now about what we do in Norway, because do in Norway, because do in Norway, because we are a small country, we are a small country, we are a small country, we only have 5.5 we only have 5.5 we only have 5.5 million people. It's million people. It's million people. It's quite a small number in the quite a small number in the quite a small number in the big world, but big world, but big world, but we still have so we still have so we still have so many top many top many top athletes in different athletes in different athletes in different sports. And I sports. And I sports. And I think that's what we do think that's what we do think that's what we do : the main goal of : the main goal of : the main goal of a lot of local a lot of local a lot of local clubs is clubs is that we want that we want that we want kids to try kids to try kids to try as many sports as possible as many sports as possible as many sports as possible , and we want to , and we want to , and we want to keep them there keep them there keep them there as long as possible. And as long as possible. And as long as possible. And then, when we then, when we then, when we turn 15, 16, 17 turn 15, 16, 17 turn 15, 16, 17 , we make , we make , we make a decision whether to pursue a sports career in a decision whether to pursue a sports career in a decision whether to pursue a sports career in high school high school high school or or or choose something else. This is choose something else. This is choose something else. This is the moment when people the moment when people the moment when people begin to make begin to make begin to make their choices. But up until the their choices. But up until the their choices. But up until the age of 15, we try to age of 15, we try to age of 15, we try to keep as keep as keep as many children as possible, and I many children as possible, and I many children as possible, and I feel that this has become a feel that this has become a feel that this has become a key to success and key to success and key to success and part of the culture in part of the culture in part of the culture in Norway. I think it Norway. I think it Norway. I think it worked really worked really worked really well, and when well, and when well, and when you talk to you talk to you talk to a lot of the top a lot of the top a lot of the top athletes, athletes, athletes, they all really they all really they all really appreciate it today, remembering appreciate it today, remembering appreciate it today, remembering how great the how great the training really was, because there were training really was, because there were so many of us so many of us so many of us every time. every time. Yeah, and creating a Yeah, and creating a culture where the main thing is to culture where the main thing is to make sure that make sure that make sure that kids are engaged, that kids are engaged, that kids are engaged, that they're connected to they're connected to they're connected to sports and sports and sports and fall in love with it, fall in love with it, fall in love with it, so that they can so that they can so that they can maintain a relationship with maintain a relationship with maintain a relationship with physical activity physical activity physical activity for a lifetime, instead of for a lifetime, instead of for a lifetime, instead of negative memories negative memories negative memories of how they were never of how they were never of how they were never chosen and, you know, chosen and, you know, chosen and, you know, forget about it. I'm forget about it. I'm forget about it. I'm moving in a different moving in a different moving in a different direction, like sports direction, like sports — it's not for me. — it's not for me. Yeah, and I think just Yeah, and I think just being able to being able to being able to try different try different try different sports, you know? sports, you know? Many Norwegians Many Norwegians have been cross-country have been cross-country have been cross-country skiing for at least skiing for at least skiing for at least six to ten years six to ten years . . Yes, there are Yes, there are about a thousand about a thousand about a thousand ski clubs in Norway, right ski clubs in Norway, right ? ? ? Oh, there are so many of them. Well, it's Oh, there are so many of them. Well, it's Oh, there are so many of them. Well, it's just where I live, just where I live, just where I live, from my house to from my house to from my house to Granasen, where the Granasen, where the World Championships were held, it's only 5 km. There World Championships were held, it's only 5 km. There are three clubs in are three clubs in are three clubs in this 5-kilometer this 5-kilometer this 5-kilometer stretch alone. So there are stretch alone. So there are stretch alone. So there are a lot of them, but as I a lot of them, but as I a lot of them, but as I said, I think many said, I think many only try their hand at ski racing for 4 years. But only try their hand at ski racing for 4 years. But then they then they then they develop the skill develop the skill , and when they , and when they , and when they get older, they get older, they get older, they remember what it's like to remember what it's like to ski. ski. ski. So as they So as they So as they get older, they get older, they get older, they can can can use skiing use skiing use skiing as a form of exercise. as a form of exercise. You know, they can You know, they can go to the dacha in the winter go to the dacha in the winter , and on the weekends they can , and on the weekends they can , and on the weekends they can go skiing as go skiing as go skiing as part of their part of their fitness program. They try football, They try football, athletics, and athletics, and athletics, and cycling. The goal cycling. The goal cycling. The goal is for is for is for children to try children to try children to try as many sports as possible as many sports as possible as many sports as possible , because then , because then , because then parents give their children parents give their children parents give their children the opportunity the opportunity the opportunity to decide for themselves what they to decide for themselves what they to decide for themselves what they like like like best: soccer, best: soccer, best: soccer, cross-country skiing, or cross-country skiing, or cross-country skiing, or track and field. And track and field. And track and field. And the decision is made the decision is made the decision is made based on what you based on what you based on what you like, not like, not like, not just when you're just when you're just when you're put in a section where you're forced to do put in a section where you're forced to do something for several years, something for several years, instead of instead of instead of trying different things and trying different things and trying different things and deciding for yourself. deciding for yourself. Yes. However, over time, it is a Yes. However, over time, it is a controversial path to controversial path to controversial path to perfection. Because perfection. Because perfection. Because there is an opinion that if there is an opinion that if there is an opinion that if you want to be the best, you want to be the best, you want to be the best, you need to you need to you need to specialize specialize specialize as early as possible. And as early as possible. And as early as possible. And the example of Norway the example of Norway the example of Norway shows that this is a wrong shows that this is a wrong shows that this is a wrong way of thinking. Have you way of thinking. Have you way of thinking. Have you read David read David read David Epstein's book "Universals" Epstein's book "Universals" ? ? ? No. This is No. This is No. This is exactly what it is about. exactly what it is about. exactly what it is about. I will send you this I will send you this I will send you this book. We used to book. We used to book. We used to think that the best think that the best think that the best people in the world people in the world people in the world specialized early, specialized early, specialized early, were focused, and were focused, and were focused, and worked their worked their worked their 10,000 hours, and that this was the 10,000 hours, and that this was the 10,000 hours, and that this was the only way to the only way to the only way to the top. And such top. And such top. And such examples really exist. examples really exist. examples really exist. These are Tiger Woods and These are Tiger Woods and These are Tiger Woods and other similar other similar other similar personalities. But personalities. But personalities. But in general, if you in general, if you in general, if you analyze the analyze the analyze the best in the world in best in the world in best in the world in various fields, from various fields, from various fields, from science and academic science and academic science and academic disciplines to disciplines to disciplines to athletics, you will see athletics, you will see that those who not only that those who not only that those who not only became the best, but also became the best, but also became the best, but also maintained successful maintained successful maintained successful careers for a long time, careers for a long time, careers for a long time, did many did many did many things in childhood, and things in childhood, and came to their specialization later, came to their specialization later, having a wealth of experience having a wealth of experience having a wealth of experience that helped not only that helped not only that helped not only achieve peak achieve peak achieve peak results, but also results, but also results, but also maintain them maintain them maintain them for a long for a long for a long time. time. Yes, and I think that Yes, and I think that if you've tried if you've tried if you've tried a lot of different things and a lot of different things and a lot of different things and realized that football realized that football is what I love is what I love is what I love the most, imagine the most, imagine the most, imagine how many hours and how many hours and how many hours and energy you can energy you can energy you can give to football, because give to football, because give to football, because you know that it's the sport you know that it's the sport you know that it's the sport you love the you love the you love the most. Or if most. Or if most. Or if it's cross-country skiing, it doesn't it's cross-country skiing, it doesn't it's cross-country skiing, it doesn't matter. But I think being matter. But I think being matter. But I think being able to able to able to try different try different try different things and being able things and being able things and being able to understand at a young age, "Okay, this is the to understand at a young age, "Okay, this is the to understand at a young age, "Okay, this is the sport sport sport I want to I want to I want to focus on and this is what focus on and this is what focus on and this is what I want to I want to I want to spend my time on," spend my time on," spend my time on," allows you allows you allows you to dedicate thousands of to dedicate thousands of to dedicate thousands of hours to training. hours to training. Experience is not a Experience is not a distraction. distraction. distraction. On the contrary, it contributes to On the contrary, it contributes to On the contrary, it contributes to your success in your your success in your your success in your specialization. You were a specialization. You were a specialization. You were a football player, I know, there football player, I know, there football player, I know, there was a moment when you was a moment when you was a moment when you had to decide whether to go into had to decide whether to go into had to decide whether to go into football or skiing, but football or skiing, but football or skiing, but your experience as a your experience as a your experience as a football player on the field football player on the field football player on the field contributed to your success contributed to your success contributed to your success as a skier because it gave as a skier because it gave as a skier because it gave you a different level of you a different level of you a different level of physical fitness physical fitness physical fitness and and and agility training in a different agility training in a different agility training in a different context, which context, which context, which improved your improved your improved your technique as a skier. technique as a skier. Certainly. And I think it's an Certainly. And I think it's an interesting topic because it interesting topic because it interesting topic because it seems to me that everyone seems to me that everyone seems to me that everyone thinks, and many thinks, and many thinks, and many people believe, that you should people believe, that you should people believe, that you should only do things this way only do things this way only do things this way or that way. But I or that way. But I or that way. But I think we, in think we, in think we, in Norway, have at least Norway, have at least Norway, have at least tried to find a middle tried to find a middle tried to find a middle ground where ground where ground where we get as many we get as many we get as many kids kids kids involved as possible for as long as possible, involved as possible for as long as possible, involved as possible for as long as possible, and then hopefully, and then hopefully, and then hopefully, and that's at least what and that's at least what and that's at least what we've seen over the we've seen over the we've seen over the years, it's developed years, it's developed years, it's developed a lot of top athletes in a a lot of top athletes in a a lot of top athletes in a lot of different lot of different lot of different sports. sports. I love nature, but I love nature, but I have to admit that I have to admit that I have to admit that since I started since I started since I started managing it, I managing it, I managing it, I find even more find even more find even more time to just time to just time to just sit down and go to places sit down and go to places sit down and go to places where you can get a where you can get a where you can get a real experience. real experience. real experience. I recently I recently I recently got to ride the got to ride the got to ride the R2 with RJ R2 with RJ R2 with RJ Scaringe, Scaringe, Scaringe, founder and founder and CEO of Rivian, and we CEO of Rivian, and we talked about how this is talked about how this is talked about how this is no coincidence. How... no coincidence. How... how this idea, how we how this idea, how we how this idea, how we create this, you know create this, you know , completely seamless , completely seamless , completely seamless connection to nature connection to nature connection to nature through a car, through a car, through a car, which by definition is which by definition is which by definition is supposed to somehow supposed to somehow supposed to somehow separate you separate you separate you from the outside from the outside from the outside world. And how do world. And how do world. And how do design decisions design decisions design decisions shape, you know, that shape, you know, that shape, you know, that perspective? perspective? perspective? If you're in this car, If you're in this car, If you're in this car, you should feel that you should feel that you should feel that if you want to if you want to if you want to go somewhere, go hiking, go somewhere, go hiking, go somewhere, go hiking, or stay longer, or stay longer, or stay longer, it's at your service. it's at your service. it's at your service. It's just another It's just another It's just another little push little push little push to say, " to say, " It's okay to explore. It's okay to explore. It's okay to explore. " " " Yes. Yes. Yes. Seek the unknown. Seek the unknown. There is a drain plug in the front trunk. And There is a drain plug in the front trunk. And the ability to lower the the ability to lower the the ability to lower the rear window in this rear window in this rear window in this car is a really cool car is a really cool car is a really cool feature, because you can feature, because you can feature, because you can put a put a put a surfboard or easily surfboard or easily surfboard or easily load load load equipment. These are all equipment. These are all equipment. These are all little things that, on their little things that, on their little things that, on their own, don't seem to own, don't seem to matter much, but matter much, but combined they combined they combined they create a product create a product create a product for those who strive to for those who strive to for those who strive to live a full, live a full, live a full, adventurous life adventurous life . . To watch To watch the rest of our the rest of our the rest of our conversation and learn conversation and learn conversation and learn all about R2 and where it all about R2 and where it all about R2 and where it can take you, can take you, can take you, go to go to go to stories.rivian.com/richroll. This stories.rivian.com/richroll. This stories.rivian.com/richroll. This episode is brought to you by episode is brought to you by episode is brought to you by Whoop—a wearable Whoop—a wearable Whoop—a wearable health health health and fitness coach that and fitness coach that and fitness coach that turns data about turns data about turns data about your sleep, recovery, your sleep, recovery, your sleep, recovery, exercise, and exercise, and exercise, and health into better health into better health into better daily decisions. Here's a daily decisions. Here's a daily decisions. Here's a phrase I phrase I phrase I keep coming back to. keep coming back to. keep coming back to. We measure We measure We measure longevity in years, longevity in years, longevity in years, but we but we but we measure life in moments. measure life in moments. measure life in moments. And the older I get— And the older I get— I I I turned 60 this fall—the more turned 60 this fall—the more turned 60 this fall—the more important the important the important the second part becomes to me. second part becomes to me. second part becomes to me. It's not just about It's not just about It's not just about adding time. It's about the adding time. It's about the adding time. It's about the quality of life quality of life quality of life in every minute I have in every minute I have in every minute I have left. That's how left. That's how left. That's how I feel about my I feel about my I feel about my Whoop. I have Whoop. I have Whoop. I have realistic goals: realistic goals: realistic goals: to get back to running to get back to running to get back to running without pain and without pain and without pain and hopefully be hopefully be fit and fit and healthy enough to run the healthy enough to run the healthy enough to run the New New York City Marathon York City Marathon York City Marathon this fall in honor of this fall in honor of this fall in honor of my 60th birthday. But I will my 60th birthday. But I will only be able to achieve this if I only be able to achieve this if I understand understand understand my body as much as possible and my body as much as possible and my body as much as possible and meet its meet its meet its needs without needs without needs without overloading it. overloading it. overloading it. Whoop helps me Whoop helps me Whoop helps me avoid making bad avoid making bad avoid making bad decisions. By seeing my decisions. By seeing my decisions. By seeing my sleep dynamics and how sleep dynamics and how sleep dynamics and how I recover from I recover from training, I now training, I now know when to know when to know when to push myself and when push myself and when to rest, to rest, to rest, allowing me to be more allowing me to be more allowing me to be more energized and energized and energized and present in the present in the moments that matter most. And that's the moments that matter most. And that's the real advantage of Whoop real advantage of Whoop . Not more data, but . Not more data, but . Not more data, but more life in your more life in your more life in your years. So try it. years. So try it. years. So try it. Go to Go to Go to join.whoop.com/roll to join.whoop.com/roll to join.whoop.com/roll to get 1 month of get 1 month of get 1 month of Whoop Whoop Whoop for free. I want to for free. I want to for free. I want to talk a little about talk a little about talk a little about football. You support football. You support football. You support Norway, Norway, Norway, you attend their you attend their you attend their matches. Going to the matches. Going to the matches. Going to the finals this weekend. How finals this weekend. How finals this weekend. How many many many Norway matches have you been to? For Norway matches have you been to? For Norway matches have you been to? For everyone? everyone? everyone? No, I didn't have No, I didn't have No, I didn't have time for that. I came for the time for that. I came for the time for that. I came for the most important match— most important match— against Senegal in the against Senegal in the against Senegal in the group stage. I group stage. I group stage. I was only here for 3-4 days. was only here for 3-4 days. One of my good One of my good friends is playing, so I friends is playing, so I friends is playing, so I wanted to come and wanted to come and wanted to come and support them. It was a support them. It was a support them. It was a cool experience, and cool experience, and cool experience, and just seeing just seeing just seeing how much football...well, how much football...well, how much football...well, we haven't we haven't we haven't qualified for the qualified for the qualified for the World Cup in 28 World Cup in 28 World Cup in 28 years. So there is a years. So there is a years. So there is a real " real " fever" in Norway right now because of the fever" in Norway right now because of the fever" in Norway right now because of the World Cup. As World Cup. As World Cup. As we say in Norway, we say in Norway, we say in Norway, it's just crazy. it's just crazy. it's just crazy. Everyone drinks beer. They Everyone drinks beer. They Everyone drinks beer. They stay up late stay up late stay up late because of the time difference. because of the time difference. And they just completely lost their minds. lost their minds. Yes, I would say that's Yes, I would say that's Yes, I would say that's true. Everything revolves true. Everything revolves true. Everything revolves around the around the around the World Cup. World Cup. World Cup. But here's the thing. But here's the thing. But here's the thing. You are an absolute genius You are an absolute genius You are an absolute genius in your sport. in your sport. in your sport. I can't imagine I can't imagine I can't imagine you would trade it for you would trade it for you would trade it for anything else, but is there anything else, but is there anything else, but is there a little a little a little part of you that, when you part of you that, when you part of you that, when you watch these games watch these games watch these games where Norway is playing, where Norway is playing, where Norway is playing, thinks, "Man, that could have thinks, "Man, that could have thinks, "Man, that could have been me." I could be been me." I could be been me." I could be there, maybe, like there, maybe, like Definitely. Many Definitely. Many times. times. times. about what about what about what happens to happens to happens to Erling, how the world Erling, how the world Erling, how the world fell in love with this fell in love with this fell in love with this guy, and he became the guy, and he became the guy, and he became the most famous and most famous and most famous and respected respected respected athlete in the world. athlete in the world. athlete in the world. I know. I know. I know. And you're like, "Damn it. And you're like, "Damn it. And you're like, "Damn it. " " " Although not without reason. Although not without reason. Although not without reason. He's a great guy He's a great guy He's a great guy and it's so impressive. Are and it's so impressive. Are and it's so impressive. Are you friends with him? you friends with him? We met We met several times several times several times because we have because we have because we have mutual sponsors. But mutual sponsors. But mutual sponsors. But yeah, he's a great yeah, he's a great yeah, he's a great guy. It's just guy. It's just guy. It's just incredible to see incredible to see incredible to see what he's achieved what he's achieved what he's achieved lately...well, in lately...well, in lately...well, in his career, and his career, and his career, and especially at this especially at this especially at this World Cup. It World Cup. It World Cup. It was a lot of fun. was a lot of fun. was a lot of fun. Therefore. Therefore. Therefore. And let's talk about someone And let's talk about someone who understands who understands who understands social media. This is just social media. This is just social media. This is just madness. Here's what madness. Here's what madness. Here's what you need to you need to you need to do. You do. You do. You need to make a need to make a need to make a YouTube video with him where you YouTube video with him where you YouTube video with him where you make him live a make him live a make him live a day in your life, and day in your life, and day in your life, and then you live a then you live a then you live a day in his life: day in his life: day in his life: training, training, training, nutrition, etc. nutrition, etc. I think the world is just I think the world is just going crazy. going crazy. going crazy. I agree. I think it I agree. I think it I agree. I think it could be. This could could be. This could could be. This could be something really be something really be something really cool because, as I cool because, as I cool because, as I said, a lot of my said, a lot of my said, a lot of my friends are football players and friends are football players and friends are football players and we usually we usually we usually go on a week-long go on a week-long go on a week-long vacation together in the summer. And vacation together in the summer. And vacation together in the summer. And when we compare when we compare when we compare training, training, training, for example, a for example, a for example, a football player and me as a football player and me as a football player and me as a skier, it's like a couple of skier, it's like a couple of skier, it's like a couple of years ago, we were in the years ago, we were in the years ago, we were in the Lofoten Lofoten Lofoten Islands in northern Islands in northern Islands in northern Norway, and, um, I Norway, and, um, I Norway, and, um, I went out for a 3-hour went out for a 3-hour went out for a 3-hour training session with double- training session with double- poling in the morning, poling in the morning, poling in the morning, came back, and they, um came back, and they, um , they or he was out for a , they or he was out for a , they or he was out for a run; ran about run; ran about run; ran about 5 km, and then did 10 5 km, and then did 10 5 km, and then did 10 climbs of 100-200 climbs of 100-200 climbs of 100-200 meters up the hill. meters up the hill. Aha. Aha. And that was all And that was all And that was all training, and it was a training, and it was a training, and it was a great activity, great activity, great activity, you know? And it took, you know? And it took, you know? And it took, let's say, an let's say, an let's say, an hour at most. And I was hour at most. And I was hour at most. And I was out for 3 hours, out for 3 hours, out for 3 hours, came back and knew that I would be out for another came back and knew that I would be out for another came back and knew that I would be out for another 2 hours in the evening 2 hours in the evening 2 hours in the evening . While he . While he . While he only practiced for an hour, he only practiced for an hour, he only practiced for an hour, he was very satisfied was very satisfied was very satisfied and it was a and it was a and it was a really good really good really good training day for him. training day for him. So when you compare it So when you compare it in terms of hours, in terms of hours, in terms of hours, it's definitely it's definitely it's definitely different, but they have a completely different, but they have a completely different, but they have a completely different muscle different muscle different muscle load load load compared to what I compared to what I compared to what I have when I do 3- have when I do 3- hour sessions. But, um hour sessions. But, um , sometimes when I'm , sometimes when I'm , sometimes when I'm running for 3 hours in the running for 3 hours in the running for 3 hours in the mud somewhere in mud somewhere in mud somewhere in Trondheim, it's raining and the Trondheim, it's raining and the Trondheim, it's raining and the weather is terrible, I weather is terrible, I weather is terrible, I sometimes wish I was a sometimes wish I was a sometimes wish I was a footballer, to footballer, to footballer, to do an hour or an hour do an hour or an hour do an hour or an hour and a half of and a half of and a half of training and say, training and say, training and say, "that was good," but "that was good," but "that was good," but yes. There yes. There is also a big is also a big difference in difference in difference in how much you get paid how much you get paid how much you get paid per hour. There's also a per hour. There's also a per hour. There's also a big difference. big difference. One thing I did One thing I did n't know about you: I think n't know about you: I think n't know about you: I think you signed a 5- you signed a 5- year professional year professional year professional cycling contract in 2020. It's like you've cycling contract in 2020. It's like you've cycling contract in 2020. It's like you've joined a joined a joined a professional professional professional cycling team. You cycling team. You cycling team. You still...It's no surprise that you still...It's no surprise that you still...It's no surprise that you use a use a use a bike for bike for bike for ski training, ski training, ski training, but it shows but it shows but it shows how how how versatile an athlete you are. versatile an athlete you are. So, the reason I So, the reason I did that was because my did that was because my grandfather and I were grandfather and I were grandfather and I were looking for, how do we looking for, how do we looking for, how do we build build build endurance now? endurance now? What can we do What can we do to become a little to become a little to become a little better? And we better? And we better? And we reviewed what I had reviewed what I had reviewed what I had done in previous done in previous done in previous years. And there was one year years. And there was one year years. And there was one year when I broke my collarbone when I broke my collarbone . So I had to . So I had to . So I had to pedal for pedal for pedal for about four about four about four weeks until I weeks until I weeks until I could could could use my use my use my upper body again. upper body again. And that season I did very And that season I did very well in well in well in speed speed speed skating. So we skating. So we skating. So we went back to this went back to this went back to this and decided, "Okay, what and decided, "Okay, what and decided, "Okay, what can we do can we do can we do this year to this year to this year to build build build resilience?" And resilience?" And resilience?" And then, uh, I knew a then, uh, I knew a then, uh, I knew a guy who led a guy who led a guy who led a cycling team, and I started cycling team, and I started cycling team, and I started writing to them, and we writing to them, and we writing to them, and we realized: if I'm realized: if I'm realized: if I'm going to going to going to train more on the train more on the train more on the bike, I want to bike, I want to bike, I want to learn from the best. learn from the best. That's why I contacted That's why I contacted them, and we decided that this was something them, and we decided that this was something them, and we decided that this was something we we we could could could work on together. And so I work on together. And so I work on together. And so I went from went from went from using my using my using my bike 30 hours a bike 30 hours a bike 30 hours a year to 100 hours a year. year to 100 hours a year. Mhm. But I just wanted to, I But I just wanted to, I wanted to learn wanted to learn wanted to learn as much as possible from the as much as possible from the as much as possible from the cycling team in cycling team in cycling team in how to use the how to use the how to use the bike, bike, bike, the settings and everything the settings and everything the settings and everything else. So I else. So I else. So I do everything right do everything right do everything right because I think that's always because I think that's always because I think that's always been one of my been one of my been one of my key factors: key factors: key factors: when I start when I start when I start doing something for the first time, I doing something for the first time, I doing something for the first time, I really want to do really want to do really want to do it well, you know? it well, you know? When I want to When I want to dig into the details dig into the details dig into the details and see what I can and see what I can and see what I can do better, and that's why do better, and that's why do better, and that's why we started we started we started working with, you know, what working with, you know, what working with, you know, what I've moved on to is the I've moved on to is the World Tour team now. World Tour team now. They won a They won a They won a stage of the stage of the Tour de France two days ago, and they've been Tour de France two days ago, and they've been Tour de France two days ago, and they've been simply amazing the simply amazing the simply amazing the last few years. last few years. So it's cool to be a So it's cool to be a part of this and part of this and part of this and really learn from the really learn from the really learn from the best. Are best. Are you still on the team? Yes, I'm still on the Yes, I'm still on the team, but they have a team, but they have a team, but they have a season when I do season when I do season when I do n't. So it's n't. So it's n't. So it's hard to somehow hard to somehow hard to somehow combine these things, combine these things, combine these things, but in recent years I've but in recent years I've but in recent years I've always been to the Tour de always been to the Tour de always been to the Tour de France, just France, just France, just watching and watching and watching and participating for participating for participating for a few days. I did a few days. I did a few days. I did n't have time this year, but n't have time this year, but n't have time this year, but this... Did this... Did this... Did you also participate you also participate you also participate in the race? in the race? in the race? I didn't participate in I didn't participate in I didn't participate in the race. So it's kind of the race. So it's kind of the race. So it's kind of ... not at all ... not at all ... not at all . Yes. I . Yes. I . Yes. I wish I could, but I wish I could, but I wish I could, but I think, I think I think, I think I think, I think I started...I actually started...I actually started...I actually got a message got a message got a message from Thor Gushovd, from Thor Gushovd, from Thor Gushovd, who is something who is something who is something like... like... like... Oh, yeah. the Oh, yeah. the team's sports director and... a team's sports director and... a true legend, and true legend, and true legend, and now the director. now the director. now the director. Yes, and he wanted me to Yes, and he wanted me to Yes, and he wanted me to try quitting try quitting try quitting skiing and start skiing and start cycling, but I cycling, but I think unfortunately it's too think unfortunately it's too think unfortunately it's too late, because I think late, because I think late, because I think developing the developing the developing the endurance for the endurance for the endurance for the climbs would be climbs would be climbs would be possible. Of course, not possible. Of course, not possible. Of course, not against Thaddeus, but against Thaddeus, but against Thaddeus, but overall, it's pretty overall, it's pretty overall, it's pretty good. I think it would be good. I think it would be good. I think it would be possible to have possible to have possible to have enough enough enough endurance, because I endurance, because I endurance, because I think our VO2 and think our VO2 and think our VO2 and so on are at a very good so on are at a very good so on are at a very good level, but the biggest level, but the biggest level, but the biggest challenge would be challenge would be challenge would be just to stay in the just to stay in the just to stay in the group. Imagine group. Imagine group. Imagine how much, because how much, because how much, because I didn't compete, you know, I didn't compete, you know, I didn't compete, you know, and then there are these downhills, of course and then there are these downhills, of course . . . I mean, there's a lot to I mean, there's a lot to I mean, there's a lot to learn. learn. learn. There are certain aspects that There are certain aspects that There are certain aspects that will probably be will probably be will probably be difficult because you haven't difficult because you haven't difficult because you haven't been doing it since been doing it since been doing it since birth, but birth, but birth, but riding in a group can be riding in a group can be riding in a group can be learned. You can, learned. You can, learned. You can, a lot of this a lot of this a lot of this can be trained. It would be can be trained. It would be can be trained. It would be cool to see cool to see cool to see you try maybe a you try maybe a shorter multi-day shorter multi-day shorter multi-day race and see race and see race and see what you're capable of, it what you're capable of, it what you're capable of, it could be could be could be another career. another career. another career. Yes, I don't know if it's too Yes, I don't know if it's too Yes, I don't know if it's too late. I'm late. I'm late. I'm turning 30, I don't turning 30, I don't turning 30, I don't think it's think it's think it's too late. I guess too late. I guess too late. I guess the thing is, there are the thing is, there are the thing is, there are a lot of things you a lot of things you a lot of things you can do. What can do. What can do. What should you do, should you do, should you do, you know? you know? you know? Oh, that's true. Oh, that's true. Oh, that's true. But a bicycle as an But a bicycle as an But a bicycle as an exercise bike is an exercise bike is an exercise bike is an exceptional thing, because it's exceptional thing, because it's exceptional thing, because it's almost like a almost like a almost like a data collection machine. The amount of data collection machine. The amount of data collection machine. The amount of data and data and data and feedback you can feedback you can feedback you can get from a get from a get from a bike is probably bike is probably bike is probably better than better than better than skiing, right? I skiing, right? I skiing, right? I mean mean mean power metrics and all the ways power metrics and all the ways power metrics and all the ways you can calibrate you can calibrate you can calibrate and customize your and customize your and customize your workouts. And you workouts. And you workouts. And you can can train for hours in a row. I don't know how it is in skiing don't know how it is in skiing and what effect it has on the and what effect it has on the and what effect it has on the body, but as a body, but as a body, but as a means of developing means of developing means of developing aerobic aerobic aerobic endurance, endurance, endurance, I think, I think it I think, I think it I think, I think it has no equal. has no equal. There are a lot of similarities, There are a lot of similarities, but the biggest but the biggest but the biggest difference, as you difference, as you difference, as you said, in cycling, said, in cycling, said, in cycling, there is all the data. In skiing, it's there is all the data. In skiing, it's there is all the data. In skiing, it's actually difficult. actually difficult. actually difficult. I mean, the only thing I mean, the only thing I mean, the only thing we can measure we can measure is heart rate. is heart rate. is heart rate. You don't have a You don't have a You don't have a power sensor on your skis. power sensor on your skis. power sensor on your skis. We don't…So I would say We don't…So I would say We don't…So I would say skiing is much skiing is much skiing is much more based on more based on more based on feel, you know? feel, you know? When I go out for a 3- hour workout, I hour workout, I hour workout, I do it mostly by do it mostly by do it mostly by feel and feel and feel and But you have a chest heart rate But you have a chest heart rate But you have a chest heart rate monitor. monitor. monitor. Yes, and that's probably the Yes, and that's probably the Yes, and that's probably the only indicator only indicator only indicator we can we can we can use. But use. But use. But during the race I during the race I during the race I rely only on rely only on rely only on feeling. I never feeling. I never feeling. I never look at my heart rate look at my heart rate look at my heart rate during a race. I during a race. I during a race. I just give it my all just give it my all just give it my all , step by step, , step by step, , step by step, trusting my trusting my trusting my feelings. feelings. feelings. M-hm. Are you wearing it? M-hm. Are you wearing it? M-hm. Are you wearing it? Looking at the data after Looking at the data after Looking at the data after completion? Do completion? Do completion? Do you wear any Garmin or you wear any Garmin or you wear any Garmin or similar device similar device similar device while racing? For while racing? For the last few years the last few years I've just I've just I've just been using my Whoop been using my Whoop been using my Whoop on my biceps during on my biceps during on my biceps during races and I think races and I think races and I think that's enough to that's enough to that's enough to be accurate. I be accurate. I be accurate. I mean, it's better mean, it's better mean, it's better to use Garmin to use Garmin to use Garmin to get... But I to get... But I to get... But I get the point, and that's what get the point, and that's what get the point, and that's what I'm interested in, because it does I'm interested in, because it does I'm interested in, because it does n't change anything for me n't change anything for me n't change anything for me whether whether whether my heart rate was 190 or 185. It my heart rate was 190 or 185. It my heart rate was 190 or 185. It doesn't change anything doesn't change anything doesn't change anything before the race I'm before the race I'm before the race I'm planning the next planning the next planning the next day, because the routine, day, because the routine, day, because the routine, the recovery, the the recovery, the the recovery, the nutrition—it's all nutrition—it's all nutrition—it's all more or less the same. more or less the same. Yes. Have you ever Yes. Have you ever trained with trained with trained with Christian or Christian or Christian or Gustav? Gustav? Gustav? No, I didn't have to. Have No, I didn't have to. Have No, I didn't have to. Have you met Olaf, you met Olaf, you met Olaf, their coach? You would their coach? You would their coach? You would understand. understand. understand. He's now part of the He's now part of the He's now part of the UN X team too. UN X team too. UN X team too. Oh, really. Okay, Oh, really. Okay, Oh, really. Okay, cool. cool. But yeah, he's an interesting But yeah, he's an interesting man, and what he's man, and what he's man, and what he's done with triathlon in done with triathlon in done with triathlon in Norway, and I Norway, and I Norway, and I mean, in the world. He mean, in the world. He mean, in the world. He has the measurements, all the has the measurements, all the has the measurements, all the metrics and data metrics and data metrics and data they've collected over the they've collected over the they've collected over the years. This is simply years. This is simply years. This is simply incredible. incredible. Yes, for someone Yes, for someone like you who like you who like you who loves loves loves to experiment and is to experiment and is to experiment and is always trying always trying always trying to find something new or an to find something new or an to find something new or an edge—Olaf would be a edge—Olaf would be a godsend for you. You definitely godsend for you. You definitely should. should. should. I think so. I think so. I think so. I think so. I think so. I think so. Not to Not to Not to replace grandpa. I'm replace grandpa. I'm replace grandpa. I'm sure he knows a lot sure he knows a lot sure he knows a lot , but Olaf is on a , but Olaf is on a , but Olaf is on a whole other level. whole other level. whole other level. Yes, definitely. And his Yes, definitely. And his Yes, definitely. And his vision and everything else— vision and everything else— I think it's impressive what I think it's impressive what they've achieved. they've achieved. What's also cool about your What's also cool about your situation is that situation is that situation is that you have a family business. you have a family business. Your grandfather is your Your grandfather is your coach, your father is your coach, your father is your manager, right? Mom manager, right? Mom manager, right? Mom is in finance is in finance , and brother is a , and brother is a , and brother is a social media manager, social media manager, social media manager, right? He seems to be right? He seems to be right? He seems to be running your YouTube channel. running your YouTube channel. running your YouTube channel. So, it's all in the family. So, it's all in the family. So, it's all in the family. Yes. We started when Yes. We started when Yes. We started when I was 18 and I I was 18 and I I was 18 and I decided I wanted to decided I wanted to decided I wanted to do YouTube. I do YouTube. I do YouTube. I told my brother, "I told my brother, "I told my brother, "I need someone to need someone to need someone to edit." So edit." So edit." So he went on YouTube himself he went on YouTube himself he went on YouTube himself and learned editing and learned editing and learned editing using YouTube, using YouTube, using YouTube, you know? And that's how it you know? And that's how it you know? And that's how it all started. And then all started. And then all started. And then when I first started when I first started when I first started winning races, uh winning races, uh , my grandfather had always , my grandfather had always , my grandfather had always been my coach, been my coach, been my coach, so it was only so it was only so it was only natural natural natural to continue to continue to continue working with him working with him working with him because we had already because we had already because we had already achieved success when achieved success when achieved success when I was 20. But when I was 20. But when I was 20. But when I won my first I won my first I won my first World Cup stage, everything World Cup stage, everything World Cup stage, everything changed at home changed at home changed at home overnight, overnight, overnight, there was a lot of there was a lot of there was a lot of interest from interest from interest from sponsors, media, sponsors, media, sponsors, media, all the things that all the things that all the things that usually come with usually come with usually come with winning a race, and winning a race, and winning a race, and I needed I needed I needed help, and my dad help, and my dad help, and my dad was able to provide it. was able to provide it. At first he At first he helped me 50%, helped me 50%, helped me 50%, combining it with his combining it with his combining it with his main job, but main job, but main job, but over the past few over the past few over the past few years it has grown into years it has grown into years it has grown into full-time employment, and full-time employment, and full-time employment, and now it's the only thing now it's the only thing now it's the only thing he does. he does. he does. Yes. Yes. Now I feel Now I feel truly truly truly privileged, privileged, privileged, having my family by my side, having my family by my side, having my family by my side, having the opportunity to having the opportunity to having the opportunity to take my brother on a take my brother on a take my brother on a trip like this, giving trip like this, giving trip like this, giving him the chance to see the him the chance to see the him the chance to see the World Cup final on World Cup final on World Cup final on Sunday, to feel the same way Sunday, to feel the same way Sunday, to feel the same way I felt. I felt. It's really cool, and I It's really cool, and I think having family think having family think having family around is a great thing. around is a great thing. But this, of course, also But this, of course, also comes with certain comes with certain comes with certain challenges. You know, challenges. You know, challenges. You know, when you don't want to when you don't want to when you don't want to ruin family ruin family ruin family relationships. So I relationships. So I relationships. So I feel like we're feel like we're feel like we're always trying to always trying to always trying to find a balance, find a balance, find a balance, like, at like, at like, at Sunday dinner, we're Sunday dinner, we're Sunday dinner, we're talking about family and talking about family and talking about family and not about my race, not about my race, not about my race, you know? And this is you know? And this is you know? And this is probably the hardest probably the hardest probably the hardest part. part. In addition to your In addition to your insane insane insane training regimen, you are also training regimen, you are also training regimen, you are also known for your known for your known for your extreme extreme extreme technical technical technical acumen. You acumen. You acumen. You intuitively know intuitively know intuitively know when to conserve energy, when to conserve energy, when to conserve energy, when to stick to your when to stick to your when to stick to your opponent, and when to opponent, and when to opponent, and when to break away. This break away. This break away. This sport is very sport is very sport is very strategic the strategic the strategic the deeper I deeper I deeper I dive into it. So I want to dive into it. So I want to dive into it. So I want to talk a little bit about talk a little bit about talk a little bit about that, and also about the that, and also about the that, and also about the origins of your origins of your origins of your uphill running technique, uphill running technique, uphill running technique, which has become your which has become your which has become your signature style. signature style. So, on the technical So, on the technical side—this is something side—this is something side—this is something we talked about a little bit we talked about a little bit we talked about a little bit earlier—it was something earlier—it was something earlier—it was something we decided to we decided to we decided to develop at an develop at an develop at an early age because I early age because I early age because I felt it was felt it was felt it was important. But in important. But in important. But in recent years, as you recent years, as you recent years, as you know, with so know, with so know, with so many mass many mass many mass starts and sprints, starts and sprints, starts and sprints, I think I've developed a I think I've developed a I think I've developed a way of seeing way of seeing way of seeing things that I've things that I've things that I've always been interested in: how always been interested in: how always been interested in: how can I do things better can I do things better , and I've always been very , and I've always been very , and I've always been very analytical in my analytical in my analytical in my actions. And I think I actions. And I think I actions. And I think I brought that to my brought that to my brought that to my sport as well when I sport as well when I sport as well when I look at look at look at sprint sprint sprint races. There are things that races. There are things that races. There are things that I want to do. I kind of I want to do. I kind of I want to do. I kind of make a plan of what I make a plan of what I make a plan of what I can do and then I can do and then I can do and then I really spend time really spend time really spend time analyzing what I analyzing what I analyzing what I did last year. did last year. For example, how did I manage to For example, how did I manage to get through this turn? get through this turn? I've always been I've always been fascinated by watching fascinated by watching fascinated by watching Formula 1 in terms of Formula 1 in terms of how they take how they take how they take corners and corners and corners and things like that that I can things like that that I can things like that that I can apply to apply to apply to my own sport, which my own sport, which my own sport, which hopefully will help hopefully will help hopefully will help me gain me gain me gain a little edge a little edge a little edge over my over my over my rivals. And I rivals. And I rivals. And I think the tactical think the tactical think the tactical and technical aspects and technical aspects are what I find are what I find are what I find most interesting about my most interesting about my most interesting about my sport. sport. Yes. The only thing I can Yes. The only thing I can compare it to is compare it to is compare it to is watching a watching a watching a bunch sprint in a bunch sprint in a bunch sprint in a cycling race. So, cycling race. So, cycling race. So, if you're Mark Cavendish if you're Mark Cavendish if you're Mark Cavendish or any other or any other or any other sprinter, winning doesn't sprinter, winning doesn't sprinter, winning doesn't necessarily depend necessarily depend necessarily depend on who can on who can on who can produce the most produce the most produce the most power with their legs. power with their legs. Yes, it's their acceleration, Yes, it's their acceleration, but it's also their sixth but it's also their sixth but it's also their sixth sense of exactly where they sense of exactly where they sense of exactly where they need to be. need to be. need to be. You know, there are so many people in this group You know, there are so many people in this group trying to get in the trying to get in the right position right position right position to be the first to be the first to be the first to cross the finish to cross the finish to cross the finish line. And there are people line. And there are people line. And there are people like Mark Kav—they like Mark Kav—they like Mark Kav—they know exactly where know exactly where know exactly where to end up. They to end up. They to end up. They can see can see can see the future and the future and the future and predict where everyone predict where everyone predict where everyone will go. And will go. And will go. And you know, when you have these you know, when you have these you know, when you have these mass starts and you're doing mass starts and you're doing sprints, a lot of it sprints, a lot of it depends on where depends on where depends on where I need to be—in the I need to be—in the I need to be—in the right place, at the right place, at the right place, at the right time, to right time, to right time, to get in get in get in position to win the position to win the position to win the race. race. race. Yes, I agree. And I Yes, I agree. And I Yes, I agree. And I think I think if we think I think if we think I think if we did a did a did a full-strength 100-meter dash, full-strength 100-meter dash, like in track and field, yeah, I think I would... I'm not yeah, I think I would... I'm not necessarily... I don't necessarily... I don't necessarily... I don't think I'm the think I'm the think I'm the fastest, or fastest, or fastest, or at least not the one with the at least not the one with the at least not the one with the most most most power. But I power. But I power. But I think if we think if we think if we take it at the end of take it at the end of take it at the end of the race, it's different, the race, it's different, the race, it's different, because then when my legs because then when my legs , when everyone is a little , when everyone is a little , when everyone is a little tired, I think it's a tired, I think it's a tired, I think it's a completely different situation completely different situation completely different situation compared to when compared to when compared to when everyone is fresh. But also, everyone is fresh. But also, everyone is fresh. But also, uh, just like you uh, just like you uh, just like you said, having, I've done said, having, I've done said, having, I've done so many so many so many sprints that I already sprints that I already sprints that I already intuitively understand intuitively understand intuitively understand where I need to be at the where I need to be at the where I need to be at the right moment, and right moment, and right moment, and I think that's something that I think that's something that I think that's something that develops if you're develops if you're develops if you're a little bit analytical, but a little bit analytical, but a little bit analytical, but also if you've done also if you've done also if you've done it enough it enough it enough times. times. Yes. Yes. This is something else. I think This is something else. I think This is something else. I think if you look at if you look at if you look at Mark Cavendish and Mark Cavendish and Mark Cavendish and see how many see how many see how many wins he has, you know wins he has, you know , he's , he's , he's built up so much built up so much built up so much knowledge and experience over so many years about knowledge and experience over so many years about knowledge and experience over so many years about where he needs to where he needs to where he needs to be on different be on different be on different finishes: whether it's a climb finishes: whether it's a climb finishes: whether it's a climb or a flat or a gentle or a flat or a gentle or a flat or a gentle descent—he kind of descent—he kind of descent—he kind of knows it, and I think that's something you have to knows it, and I think that's something you have to knows it, and I think that's something you have to work on, work on, work on, but also it's just but also it's just but also it's just your idiosyncrasy, I your idiosyncrasy, I your idiosyncrasy, I think. think. Yes. Yes. A sixth Yes. Yes. A sixth sense, as well as the sense, as well as the sense, as well as the muscle memory that muscle memory that muscle memory that comes with comes with comes with experience. experience. experience. Yes. Yes. Yes. Running uphill, this " Running uphill, this " Running uphill, this " Klebo run." So this is quite Klebo run." So this is quite Klebo run." So this is quite revolutionary. We're revolutionary. We're revolutionary. We're used to seeing used to seeing used to seeing people ski uphill in people ski uphill in people ski uphill in that V- that V- shaped stride, shaped stride, shaped stride, right? That's how everyone right? That's how everyone right? That's how everyone did it before. And did it before. And did it before. And the idea was that the idea was that the idea was that this is a moment to this is a moment to this is a moment to conserve energy. conserve energy. conserve energy. But instead you But instead you But instead you say, "I'm going to burn all say, "I'm going to burn all say, "I'm going to burn all my resources and just give it my all. my resources and just give it my all. my resources and just give it my all. " " It seems like the amount It seems like the amount of energy of energy of energy required to do this required to do this required to do this must be insane. So that must be insane. So that must be insane. So that 's a risk, right? When 's a risk, right? When 's a risk, right? When you do this. You you do this. You you do this. You can't do that all the time can't do that all the time can't do that all the time , because you're , because you're , because you're working at the working at the working at the absolute limit of absolute limit of absolute limit of your capabilities your capabilities your capabilities when you do when you do when you do that. I even read that. I even read that. I even read that you can't that you can't that you can't train like that often because it's train like that often because it's train like that often because it's very tiring. very tiring. Yes, and I think Yes, and I think you might have you might have you might have noticed this a little bit during the noticed this a little bit during the noticed this a little bit during the Olympics: there were Olympics: there were Olympics: there were a few guys who a few guys who a few guys who almost exhausted their almost exhausted their almost exhausted their strength reserves in the strength reserves in the strength reserves in the quarterfinals and quarterfinals and quarterfinals and semifinals. And when semifinals. And when semifinals. And when they got to the final they got to the final they got to the final and we picked up and we picked up and we picked up the pace a little bit, they the pace a little bit, they the pace a little bit, they just couldn't... just couldn't... just couldn't... They weren't capable of They weren't capable of They weren't capable of doing it. So this doing it. So this doing it. So this technique came about technique came about technique came about when my grandfather and I when my grandfather and I when my grandfather and I were working on a were working on a were working on a training session in training session in training session in Trondheim, where I was having Trondheim, where I was having Trondheim, where I was having problems with poor problems with poor problems with poor ski grip. And ski grip. And ski grip. And instead of instead of instead of applying more and more applying more and more applying more and more ointment, we decided, " ointment, we decided, " Okay, I'll just Okay, I'll just Okay, I'll just jump off the track and jump off the track and jump off the track and try to run a little try to run a little try to run a little ." And I ." And I ." And I saw that saw that saw that I could actually hold on better, I could actually hold on better, I could actually hold on better, so I didn't need to so I didn't need to so I didn't need to apply more apply more apply more ointment. And then we ointment. And then we ointment. And then we decided, "Okay, this is decided, "Okay, this is decided, "Okay, this is interesting." Let's interesting." Let's interesting." Let's come back tomorrow and come back tomorrow and come back tomorrow and then we'll fix the then we'll fix the then we'll fix the time. Uh, we start time. Uh, we start time. Uh, we start running from the bottom on one running from the bottom on one running from the bottom on one pair of skis with a little pair of skis with a little pair of skis with a little less grip, less grip, less grip, run up the run up the run up the hillside, and we hillside, and we hillside, and we time it. And the time is, time it. And the time is, time it. And the time is, let's say, 50 seconds. And let's say, 50 seconds. And let's say, 50 seconds. And we come back, we come back, we come back, put on another pair of put on another pair of put on another pair of skis with better skis with better skis with better grip and grip and grip and enter the track, enter the track, enter the track, but we slide like when but we slide like when but we slide like when skiing normally. And skiing normally. And skiing normally. And we see that, okay, we're we see that, okay, we're we see that, okay, we're wasting 52 seconds. wasting 52 seconds. wasting 52 seconds. Okay, so we have a Okay, so we have a Okay, so we have a certain advantage. It's certain advantage. It's certain advantage. It's interesting in terms of interesting in terms of interesting in terms of how we can how we can how we can develop it, and that's how develop it, and that's how develop it, and that's how we started with the running we started with the running we started with the running part and then over the part and then over the part and then over the years just years just years just tried tried tried to improve it to improve it to improve it year after year. But like year after year. But like year after year. But like you said, we you said, we you said, we can't do it can't do it can't do it often because I often because I often because I burn so much burn so much burn so much energy and I know energy and I know energy and I know at the beginning of every at the beginning of every at the beginning of every season we have this season we have this season we have this race in Finland where there race in Finland where there race in Finland where there 's the last climb. And 's the last climb. And 's the last climb. And now everyone runs the same way now everyone runs the same way now everyone runs the same way . It's like everyone is running around . It's like everyone is running around . It's like everyone is running around copying you, but just because copying you, but just because copying you, but just because they've seen you they've seen you they've seen you do it doesn't mean do it doesn't mean do it doesn't mean they'll be able to they'll be able to they'll be able to do it. do it. No, and you see that everyone No, and you see that everyone at the end of the race, and at the end of the race, and at the end of the race, and the next day everyone the next day everyone the next day everyone who participated in who participated in who participated in the sprint, just has the sprint, just has the sprint, just has completely tired completely tired completely tired muscles. And the same goes for muscles. And the same goes for muscles. And the same goes for me, me, me, but you see, but you see, but you see, over the weekend, over the weekend, over the weekend, if you have to run if you have to run if you have to run three races, doing it on three races, doing it on three races, doing it on Friday—it's brutal Friday—it's brutal Friday—it's brutal for the next for the next for the next few days of competition. few days of competition. But on the other hand, I But on the other hand, I think that's what you think that's what you think that's what you also learn over the years also learn over the years , how to save , how to save , how to save as much as much as much energy as possible, but energy as possible, but energy as possible, but spend enough spend enough spend enough to win. And so, I would to win. And so, I would to win. And so, I would say, it's an interesting say, it's an interesting say, it's an interesting story because it story because it story because it started a bit by started a bit by accident during a accident during a training day in training day in training day in Trondheim, but it Trondheim, but it Trondheim, but it ended up being something ended up being something ended up being something that really changed the way that really changed the way we tackle we tackle we tackle ski climbs. ski climbs. This episode This episode was produced with the was produced with the was produced with the support of Pulsetto. I've been support of Pulsetto. I've been support of Pulsetto. I've been in the wellness field for a long time in the wellness field for a long time in the wellness field for a long time . I've seen a . I've seen a . 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So you can money-back guarantee. So you can test it out and test it out and test it out and see how see how see how your body reacts. This episode your body reacts. This episode your body reacts. This episode was produced with the was produced with the was produced with the support of Go Brewing. Here's support of Go Brewing. Here's support of Go Brewing. Here's something I never something I never something I never expected. When I expected. When I expected. When I stopped drinking, and that stopped drinking, and that stopped drinking, and that was a long time ago, it was a long time ago, it was a long time ago, it was considered that you was considered that you was considered that you gave up something, gave up something, gave up something, that you were out of that you were out of that you were out of the party. And now the whole the party. And now the whole the party. And now the whole culture has changed. culture has changed. culture has changed. 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Were you in your Were you in your Were you in your own world? own world? I realized this when I I realized this when I got back to the hotel and got back to the hotel and got back to the hotel and saw what was saw what was saw what was happening—my happening—my happening—my phone was just phone was just phone was just exploding. Because I knew exploding. Because I knew exploding. Because I knew that during the race, when that during the race, when that during the race, when I was running uphill, when I I was running uphill, when I I was running uphill, when I started the final stage, I started the final stage, I started the final stage, I picked up speed in the picked up speed in the picked up speed in the first half and first half and first half and saw that the others were saw that the others were saw that the others were lagging behind, I realized lagging behind, I realized : "Okay, today I'm going to : "Okay, today I'm going to : "Okay, today I'm going to win." And when I win." And when I win." And when I gave it my all on the gave it my all on the gave it my all on the last climb, I last climb, I last climb, I felt like this was it, this was the felt like this was it, this was the felt like this was it, this was the moment. I moment. I moment. I felt like every felt like every felt like every move I made was accurate, and I move I made was accurate, and I move I made was accurate, and I knew no one else would be knew no one else would be knew no one else would be able to keep up with that able to keep up with that able to keep up with that speed, especially speed, especially speed, especially considering we had considering we had covered the first covered the first half of the distance pretty quickly. And half of the distance pretty quickly. And half of the distance pretty quickly. And when you turn when you turn when you turn your head at the top of your head at the top of your head at the top of the hill and see that the hill and see that the hill and see that you have a huge you have a huge you have a huge lead—it was an lead—it was an lead—it was an incredible feeling. incredible feeling. But I didn't understand But I didn't understand the scale because I didn't the scale because I didn't the scale because I didn't see what it see what it see what it looked like until I looked like until I looked like until I got back to the hotel, got back to the hotel, got back to the hotel, watched the video watched the video watched the video myself, and thought, "That myself, and thought, "That myself, and thought, "That looks pretty looks pretty looks pretty cool." cool." Pretty cool. So I'm like: So I'm like: It's normal for you, It's normal for you, It's normal for you, people have seen you people have seen you people have seen you do it before, but do it before, but do it before, but to the average person to the average person to the average person it was like, "What's it was like, "What's it was like, "What's going on? "I've going on? "I've going on? "I've never seen anything never seen anything never seen anything like it." like it." Yes, but I think that's what's so Yes, but I think that's what's so cool about the cool about the Olympics—you can Olympics—you can broadcast broadcast broadcast sports all over the sports all over the sports all over the world that people world that people world that people don't usually don't usually don't usually pay attention to. And I pay attention to. And I pay attention to. And I think it's because it think it's because it think it's because it happens once every happens once every happens once every four years, it's something four years, it's something four years, it's something special. The Olympics special. The Olympics are something special, and are something special, and are something special, and although for me although for me although for me personally, winning personally, winning personally, winning the year before, the year before, the year before, winning six winning six winning six gold medals in gold medals in gold medals in Trondheim, where I grew up, Trondheim, where I grew up, Trondheim, where I grew up, and hundreds of thousands of people in and hundreds of thousands of people in and hundreds of thousands of people in the forest the forest the forest watching me watching me watching me win the last win the last win the last 50 km race—that was also 50 km race—that was also 50 km race—that was also significant. For significant. For significant. For me personally, it was a great me personally, it was a great me personally, it was a great success because it was success because it was success because it was happening in my happening in my happening in my hometown, but no hometown, but no hometown, but no one outside of it one outside of it one outside of it pays attention to the pays attention to the pays attention to the World Championships in World Championships in World Championships in Norway, but when Norway, but when Norway, but when you come to the you come to the you come to the Olympics, you just Olympics, you just Olympics, you just feel the difference. That's a feel the difference. That's a feel the difference. That's a whole other thing, whole other thing, whole other thing, but on the other hand, but on the other hand, but on the other hand, it was cool to finally it was cool to finally it was cool to finally have the Olympics in have the Olympics in have the Olympics in Europe, where it's a little Europe, where it's a little Europe, where it's a little easier for everyone to follow the easier for everyone to follow the easier for everyone to follow the events, you know? events, you know? events, you know? We had the Olympics in We had the Olympics in We had the Olympics in Pyeongchang and one in Pyeongchang and one in Pyeongchang and one in Beijing. I mean, Beijing. I mean, it was a cool it was a cool it was a cool Olympics too, but it was Olympics too, but it was Olympics too, but it was harder because of the time harder because of the time harder because of the time zone and stuff, zone and stuff, zone and stuff, but having it in but having it in but having it in Europe, and knowing that Europe, and knowing that Europe, and knowing that in 2034 it's going to be in 2034 it's going to be in 2034 it's going to be in Salt Lake City, yeah, in Salt Lake City, yeah, in Salt Lake City, yeah, I think it's a I think it's a I think it's a special moment. special moment. As I understand it, you were you were much much much more nervous before the World Championships in your hometown the year before the Olympics than you were at the more nervous before the World Championships in your hometown the year before the Olympics than you were at the more nervous before the World Championships in your hometown the year before the Olympics than you were at the Games themselves, and the fact that you Games themselves, and the fact that you Games themselves, and the fact that you won six won six won six gold medals there gold medals there gold medals there allowed you allowed you allowed you to relax for the to relax for the to relax for the Olympics. Do Olympics. Do Olympics. Do you think that you think that you think that experience in Trondheim the experience in Trondheim the experience in Trondheim the year before gave you year before gave you year before gave you the confidence and the the confidence and the the confidence and the ability to be ability to be yourself at the Olympics yourself at the Olympics without giving in to all that without giving in to all that without giving in to all that anxiety and anxiety and anxiety and craziness so that you craziness so that you craziness so that you could could could put on put on put on those kinds of performances? those kinds of performances? Yeah, I think so, Yeah, I think so, because for me personally, because for me personally, because for me personally, that World Cup that World Cup that World Cup was so huge, was so huge, was so huge, you know? I was so you know? I was so you know? I was so nervous before the nervous before the nervous before the World Cup that I World Cup that I World Cup that I was kind of isolated was kind of isolated was kind of isolated from everyone, with only my from everyone, with only my from everyone, with only my father for father for father for months before the months before the months before the championship, and I didn't championship, and I didn't championship, and I didn't see anyone. I was see anyone. I was see anyone. I was completely completely completely focused with my focused with my focused with my father. And when father. And when father. And when the World Cup the World Cup the World Cup was over, I felt: was over, I felt: was over, I felt: "Okay, I'm really "Okay, I'm really "Okay, I'm really tired mentally." I tired mentally." I tired mentally." I feel like I'm just feel like I'm just feel like I'm just exhausted. And then, exhausted. And then, exhausted. And then, in the spring, I realized: " in the spring, I realized: " Okay, I need to Okay, I need to Okay, I need to change something about change something about change something about who I take with me and who I take with me and who I take with me and how I do things." One how I do things." One how I do things." One of my friends wanted of my friends wanted of my friends wanted to join before to join before to join before the Olympics, and we went the Olympics, and we went the Olympics, and we went to high-altitude to high-altitude to high-altitude training three times training three times training three times during the fall and during the fall and during the fall and winter. It brought winter. It brought winter. It brought new energy, just new energy, just new energy, just having a friend with whom I was having a friend with whom I was having a friend with whom I was n't constantly thinking about n't constantly thinking about n't constantly thinking about the Olympics, we just had a the Olympics, we just had a the Olympics, we just had a good time. good time. good time. I did everything right I did everything right . I trained well. . I trained well. I was recovering, I I was recovering, I was eating healthy, was eating healthy, was eating healthy, but the important but the important but the important factor was that factor was that factor was that having fun became an having fun became an having fun became an integral part of my integral part of my integral part of my daily routine, and I daily routine, and I daily routine, and I think that really think that really think that really made a difference, because when I made a difference, because when I made a difference, because when I got to the Olympics, got to the Olympics, got to the Olympics, I thought: this is going to be I thought: this is going to be I thought: this is going to be fun, you know. I fun, you know. I fun, you know. I feel like of course I'm feel like of course I'm feel like of course I'm nervous, but it's something nervous, but it's something nervous, but it's something I know what to do with. I know what to do with. I know what to do with. And then when And then when And then when the Olympics the Olympics the Olympics were over, you know, were over, you know, were over, you know, I was, I, I wasn't that I was, I, I wasn't that I was, I, I wasn't that exhausted. exhausted. I just felt I just felt good, it was an good, it was an good, it was an incredibly interesting incredibly interesting incredibly interesting experience. I wish experience. I wish experience. I wish it had lasted longer, you it had lasted longer, you it had lasted longer, you know, not like know, not like know, not like after the after the after the World Cup, where I just World Cup, where I just World Cup, where I just lay in bed for 6 lay in bed for 6 lay in bed for 6 days and was completely days and was completely days and was completely broken, but after broken, but after broken, but after the Olympics I just the Olympics I just the Olympics I just wanted to do it again, wanted to do it again, wanted to do it again, you know? you know? And this is an evolution And this is an evolution compared to what it compared to what it compared to what it was a few years was a few years was a few years ago, when you were ago, when you were ago, when you were essentially isolating essentially isolating essentially isolating yourself and not wanting yourself and not wanting yourself and not wanting to see anyone because you to see anyone because you to see anyone because you were afraid of getting sick, not were afraid of getting sick, not were afraid of getting sick, not going to dinner and going to dinner and going to dinner and just just just not letting anyone near you. not letting anyone near you. I think that, I think that, especially after COVID, especially after COVID, especially after COVID, was something because was something because was something because for us as for us as for us as skiers, the worst thing that skiers, the worst thing that skiers, the worst thing that can happen is to can happen is to can happen is to get sick even a get sick even a get sick even a little bit, because then you can't little bit, because then you can't little bit, because then you can't perform and you can't perform and you can't perform and you can't compete. But compete. But compete. But after COVID and everything after COVID and everything after COVID and everything else, so many else, so many else, so many people started wearing people started wearing people started wearing masks. masks. Mhm. You travel, you You travel, you try to try to try to protect yourself, you protect yourself, you protect yourself, you try to just try to just try to just stay away from stay away from stay away from people. people. Man is perceived Man is perceived as an as an as an impending threat. impending threat. impending threat. Yes. And that's Yes. And that's Yes. And that's not the best not the best not the best mood for anyone to mood for anyone to live with. live with. live with. No, and it's also an No, and it's also an No, and it's also an unhealthy unhealthy unhealthy lifestyle. And so I think lifestyle. And so I think lifestyle. And so I think when the World Cup when the World Cup when the World Cup was over, I told was over, I told was over, I told my father that this could my father that this could my father that this could n't go on, we n't go on, we n't go on, we needed to needed to needed to change something. I change something. I change something. I need to have need to have need to have other things in my life that other things in my life that other things in my life that distract me distract me distract me from being so strict, from being so strict, from being so strict, because it's unhealthy. And because it's unhealthy. And because it's unhealthy. And I think that's exactly what I think that's exactly what I think that's exactly what we did before the we did before the we did before the Olympics. I Olympics. I Olympics. I mean, I mean, I mean, I was traveling in the winter and I was traveling in the winter and I was traveling in the winter and I didn't even think about didn't even think about didn't even think about a mask, you know, I, if a mask, you know, I, if a mask, you know, I, if it was before the it was before the it was before the World Cup, I wouldn't be here World Cup, I wouldn't be here World Cup, I wouldn't be here , you know? , you know? Now I am here and I Now I am here and I feel very feel very feel very calm. People are calm. People are calm. People are coughing in the street, coughing in the street, coughing in the street, coughing next to coughing next to coughing next to me as I sit on the me as I sit on the me as I sit on the You are now in the very You are now in the very You are now in the very epicenter of the epicenter of the virus spread in New York, virus spread in New York, so so so I didn't care either, you I didn't care either, you I didn't care either, you know? And I think it's a know? And I think it's a know? And I think it's a much much much healthier way of healthier way of healthier way of life. I'm so glad life. I'm so glad life. I'm so glad I understand this I understand this I understand this now and that I can. now and that I can. Yes. Yes. not to return to not to return to not to return to that state. that state. that state. Um, but you're still a Um, but you're still a Um, but you're still a maniac. You know, it's maniac. You know, it's maniac. You know, it's rare when someone rare when someone rare when someone has mediocre results at 14 has mediocre results at 14 , and at 15 says they're going to be the , and at 15 says they're going to be the best in the best in the best in the world. So you have world. So you have world. So you have this innate level of self- this innate level of self- this innate level of self- confidence. And confidence. And confidence. And I'm curious how you I'm curious how you I'm curious how you train your train your train your thinking. Do you have thinking. Do you have thinking. Do you have any practices for any practices for any practices for this? Are this? Are this? Are you paying attention to this? Are you paying attention to this? Are you paying attention to this? Are you investing in the you investing in the you investing in the mental game? Because we mental game? Because we mental game? Because we can discuss can discuss can discuss your week of your week of your week of physical training, physical training, physical training, but I'm interested in how but I'm interested in how but I'm interested in how you work with your you work with your you work with your consciousness. consciousness. I spend a lot of I spend a lot of time training time training time training my mind, and I my mind, and I my mind, and I think one of the things think one of the things , or what I , or what I , or what I spend the most spend the most spend the most time on, is that I do a time on, is that I do a time on, is that I do a thousand hours of thousand hours of thousand hours of training every year, and I training every year, and I training every year, and I do so many do so many do so many sessions where I just sessions where I just sessions where I just go out for 3 hours go out for 3 hours go out for 3 hours by myself in the woods, running through the by myself in the woods, running through the by myself in the woods, running through the mud, and for me it's kind of mud, and for me it's kind of mud, and for me it's kind of therapy therapy therapy where I work on my where I work on my where I work on my mind, because that's where I mind, because that's where I mind, because that's where I visualize the race. visualize the race. That's where I, uh, That's where I, uh, talk to myself and talk to myself and talk to myself and try to find a try to find a try to find a balance of where I'm balance of where I'm balance of where I'm going to spend going to spend going to spend my energy and where there's my energy and where there's my energy and where there's no point in no point in no point in spending it. So, not to spending it. So, not to spending it. So, not to mention that I mention that I mention that I go to someone and go to someone and talk to someone regularly, I would talk to someone regularly, I would say that I still say that I still say that I still spend a lot of time on it spend a lot of time on it spend a lot of time on it . I . I . I mean, it's all in my mean, it's all in my mean, it's all in my head, but I head, but I head, but I still have a plan still have a plan still have a plan when I go out for a 3- when I go out for a 3- hour workout. I feel like I really hour workout. I feel like I really hour workout. I feel like I really want want want to work on some to work on some to work on some things; For example, okay, things; For example, okay, things; For example, okay, this is what I would like to this is what I would like to this is what I would like to work on, the work on, the work on, the mental part. And, mental part. And, mental part. And, uh, I think the uh, I think the uh, I think the mental part mental part mental part has shown me over the has shown me over the has shown me over the years how before the years how before the years how before the World Cup I World Cup I World Cup I would wake up the last 2 would wake up the last 2 would wake up the last 2 weeks, even though I was sick weeks, even though I was sick weeks, even though I was sick 4 weeks before the 4 weeks before the 4 weeks before the championship, I would championship, I would championship, I would wake up 2 wake up 2 wake up 2 weeks before it and weeks before it and weeks before it and I would have such a sore throat I would have such a sore throat I would have such a sore throat . Literally . Literally . Literally every morning. My every morning. My every morning. My measurements and everything else measurements and everything else measurements and everything else were in perfect were in perfect were in perfect order, but I just order, but I just order, but I just felt like felt like felt like I was making myself I was making myself I was making myself sick every morning. sick every morning. sick every morning. This is interesting. This is interesting. This is interesting. And this happened for the first time And this happened for the first time And this happened for the first time in 2018. in 2018. in 2018. It's anxiety and fear of It's anxiety and fear of It's anxiety and fear of getting sick. getting sick. getting sick. Yes. Yes. Yes. caused physical caused physical caused physical symptoms. symptoms. symptoms. Because for me, the worst thing that Because for me, the worst thing that Because for me, the worst thing that could happen is getting could happen is getting could happen is getting sick. I am not afraid of sick. I am not afraid of sick. I am not afraid of losing. I'm not afraid losing. I'm not afraid losing. I'm not afraid that I won't that I won't that I won't succeed, but the worst thing succeed, but the worst thing succeed, but the worst thing for me is to for me is to for me is to get sick and not be get sick and not be get sick and not be able to go to the start to able to go to the start to able to go to the start to fight for fight for fight for victory. And it... victory. And it... victory. And it... was better before the Olympics was better before the Olympics was better before the Olympics because I feel like I've because I feel like I've because I feel like I've adapted more adapted more adapted more to it. And I to it. And I to it. And I think when think when I get I get symptoms of a sore throat before the World Cup symptoms of a sore throat before the World Cup , it's always a sign , it's always a sign , it's always a sign that we're that we're that we're getting closer to getting closer to getting closer to something really something really something really important to me. important to me. You see, I seem to be You see, I seem to be accumulating this energy. accumulating this energy. So when I stand at So when I stand at the start of the the start of the the start of the World Cup, I know: yes, World Cup, I know: yes, World Cup, I know: yes, I had a sore throat, because I had a sore throat, because I had a sore throat, because it's already part of my it's already part of my it's already part of my routine. I'm routine. I'm routine. I'm very motivated, I'm very motivated, I'm very motivated, I'm very nervous, and when I'm very nervous, and when I'm very nervous, and when I'm nervous—I give nervous—I give nervous—I give my best my best my best performance, because when performance, because when performance, because when something means a lot to me something means a lot to me something means a lot to me , it makes , it makes , it makes me a little better, me a little better, me a little better, you know? And I you know? And I you know? And I compare it to the compare it to the compare it to the World Cup stage, where I...well, World Cup stage, where I...well, World Cup stage, where I...well, I've done 200 of these I've done 200 of these I've done 200 of these races and I don't get races and I don't get races and I don't get as nervous as I do before the as nervous as I do before the as nervous as I do before the World Championships or the World Championships or the World Championships or the Olympics. It seems like Olympics. It seems like Olympics. It seems like it first happened in it first happened in it first happened in 2018, and since then it's 2018, and since then it's 2018, and since then it's happened at happened at happened at every championship, every championship, every championship, almost every time— almost every time— this year it wasn't this year it wasn't this year it wasn't as much, but until the as much, but until the as much, but until the World Cup World Cup World Cup last year it was last year it was last year it was constant. constant. I think the psychological I think the psychological game is even more important for you now game is even more important for you now game is even more important for you now , because , because , because everything has changed. You've been everything has changed. You've been everything has changed. You've been to several to several to several Olympics, you've been Olympics, you've been Olympics, you've been at the peak of at the peak of at the peak of your form for a long time, but your form for a long time, but your form for a long time, but because of your because of your because of your results last results last results last year, you're now under the year, you're now under the spotlight. You're in New York, you spotlight. You're in New York, you were at the ESPYs last night were at the ESPYs last night were at the ESPYs last night , and , and , and tonight you're tonight you're tonight you're being honored at the Time being honored at the Time being honored at the Time 100 event. A lot of attention, 100 event. A lot of attention, 100 event. A lot of attention, a lot of obligations a lot of obligations a lot of obligations to sponsors, and to sponsors, and to sponsors, and that brings with it that brings with it that brings with it expectations. Now you are the one who expectations. Now you are the one who is expected to win. You are is expected to win. You are no longer the one who has to no longer the one who has to no longer the one who has to prove that you are the prove that you are the prove that you are the best. Now you best. Now you best. Now you have to maintain this have to maintain this have to maintain this status. Now you have to status. Now you have to status. Now you have to maintain that maintain that maintain that level of skill, level of skill, level of skill, and that's a whole different and that's a whole different and that's a whole different pressure that requires even pressure that requires even pressure that requires even more attention to how more attention to how more attention to how you feed your you feed your you feed your mind and whether mind and whether mind and whether your your your psychological state is tuned. psychological state is tuned. Yes, I agree. Yes, I agree. Yes. Yes. Yes. And...I think, you know, And...I think, you know, And...I think, you know, just remembering what just remembering what just remembering what it was like when you were, I would it was like when you were, I would it was like when you were, I would say, a kid, even though say, a kid, even though say, a kid, even though I was 20 and I I was 20 and I I was 20 and I got to the got to the got to the World Cup. Nobody World Cup. Nobody World Cup. Nobody expected me to win, expected me to win, expected me to win, you know, and it was you know, and it was you know, and it was just a feeling of just a feeling of just a feeling of you attacking, you attacking, you attacking, you know? It's more like it's you know? It's more like it's Defense now. Defense now. It's more like a It's more like a It's more like a defense. And it defense. And it defense. And it affects you in some way, and you affects you in some way, and you affects you in some way, and you have to be have to be have to be aware of that, and aware of that, and aware of that, and also make some also make some also make some mental adjustments, mental adjustments, mental adjustments, because in the end, as because in the end, as because in the end, as my grandfather always said my grandfather always said my grandfather always said , it's just a , it's just a , it's just a race. race. Mm. Mm. eventually. But it's not that eventually. But it's not that eventually. But it's not that easy, you know, and the easy, you know, and the easy, you know, and the mental component is just as mental component is just as important to me as M-m. physical, because I have physical, because I have always been very always been very always been very motivated motivated motivated to do the to do the to do the physical work it physical work it physical work it requires. requires. I don't think it's about I don't think it's about training, you're training, you're training, you're always going to be always going to be always going to be training, you know, training, you know, training, you know, so hard. Yes, so hard. Yes, so hard. Yes, that's not a problem. I that's not a problem. I that's not a problem. I think the secret to success think the secret to success think the secret to success at the last Olympics was to at the last Olympics was to enjoy it enjoy it and make it enjoyable. and make it enjoyable. I remember talking I remember talking to John John to John John to John John Florence on the podcast, a Florence on the podcast, a Florence on the podcast, a world champion world champion world champion surfer who had a surfer who had a surfer who had a hard time getting to the hard time getting to the hard time getting to the top and, you know, top and, you know, top and, you know, winning the winning the winning the world championship, so the expectations world championship, so the expectations world championship, so the expectations were so daunting for him were so daunting for him were so daunting for him , and his , and his , and his way back was to way back was to way back was to perfect this perfect this visualization practice where he would visualization practice where he would imagine every aspect of imagine every aspect of imagine every aspect of the wave and how he would the wave and how he would the wave and how he would ride it, but not in ride it, but not in ride it, but not in terms of the perfect terms of the perfect terms of the perfect ride, but in terms of ride, but in terms of ride, but in terms of the emotions that he wanted to the emotions that he wanted to the emotions that he wanted to feel on the wave, the feel on the wave, the feel on the wave, the same emotions that same emotions that same emotions that he had as a child; he had as a child; he had as a child; the more you could the more you could the more you could feel that joy and feel that joy and feel that joy and love for the sport, the love for the sport, the love for the sport, the more it took the more it took the more it took the pressure off and allowed him pressure off and allowed him pressure off and allowed him to get back to the to get back to the to get back to the top. top. I think it makes sense, I think it makes sense, you know, and for me, the you know, and for me, the you know, and for me, the last Olympics last Olympics last Olympics showed that showed that showed that enjoying the enjoying the race, every race, every day before it, day before it, day before it, makes life makes life makes life a lot easier and a lot easier and a lot easier and better, you know? I do better, you know? I do better, you know? I do n't think I could have n't think I could have n't think I could have won those six won those six won those six races if I hadn't races if I hadn't races if I hadn't had a lot of had a lot of had a lot of fun on the road fun on the road fun on the road to the Olympics, because it's to the Olympics, because it's to the Olympics, because it's just...I mean, just...I mean, just...I mean, I'm I'm I'm away from home for 268 days. away from home for 268 days. away from home for 268 days. I was away from home for so many days I was away from home for so many days I was away from home for so many days last year, and then you last year, and then you last year, and then you have to find the have to find the have to find the right way to right way to right way to pamper yourself on the pamper yourself on the pamper yourself on the road, and I think road, and I think road, and I think having fun is probably the having fun is probably the having fun is probably the best ingredient best ingredient best ingredient for living your for living your for living your best life. And for best life. And for best life. And for me, that's something I me, that's something I me, that's something I really learned really learned really learned last year. last year. last year. Mm. And you have a girlfriend Mm. And you have a girlfriend , right? , right? , right? I have a girlfriend, so I have a girlfriend, so I have a girlfriend, so we were away we were away we were away from each other for a long time. So from each other for a long time. So from each other for a long time. So we're a little bit used to it we're a little bit used to it we're a little bit used to it , but I think , but I think , but I think we And I feel like that's we And I feel like that's we And I feel like that's also something I also something I also something I learned last learned last learned last year: we need to and year: we need to and year: we need to and she's she's she's joining me joining me joining me a little bit more now. And I a little bit more now. And I a little bit more now. And I think it just think it just think it just makes sense, it's easier and makes sense, it's easier and makes sense, it's easier and much better, because I much better, because I much better, because I think I work think I work think I work better when everything is more better when everything is more better when everything is more balanced. balanced. And you're still going to And you're still going to split your time between split your time between split your time between Norway and Park Norway and Park City? City? City? That's the plan. That's the plan. That's the plan. So, Park City is So, Park City is So, Park City is basically your second basically your second basically your second home, right? home, right? home, right? I would say yes. I would say yes. I would say yes. So, you rent the So, you rent the So, you rent the same house every year. same house every year. same house every year. Aha. Aha. I'm coming back I'm coming back at the end of August, at the end of August, at the end of August, staying for a month and staying for a month and staying for a month and a little over a a little over a a little over a month. So, Utah and month. So, Utah and month. So, Utah and Park City were so Park City were so Park City were so wonderful. I mean, it wonderful. I mean, it wonderful. I mean, it was just was just was just incredible. Have an 8 incredible. Have an 8 incredible. Have an 8 hour time difference hour time difference hour time difference with Norway. with Norway. with Norway. Surprisingly. You can just Surprisingly. You can just Surprisingly. You can just , you can just , you can just , you can just like You like You like You don't have to don't have to don't have to call people back right away call people back right away . . . You wake up, it's 2 o'clock in the You wake up, it's 2 o'clock in the You wake up, it's 2 o'clock in the afternoon, and you know afternoon, and you know that when you finish that when you finish that when you finish or when you go to the or when you go to the or when you go to the second training, everyone will second training, everyone will second training, everyone will already be back already be back already be back . . . home. They are sleeping. home. They are sleeping. home. They are sleeping. So, So, So, True. You train True. You train True. You train when they...Got it. when they...Got it. when they...Got it. So, when it's evening So, when it's evening , it's completely quiet around you. , it's completely quiet around you. , it's completely quiet around you. You can just You can just You can just relax, relax, relax, unwind, and unwind, and unwind, and do what do what do what you enjoy. So you enjoy. So , Park City is a place that , Park City is a place that , Park City is a place that I really I really I really love, and I've love, and I've love, and I've said this, I wish I could said this, I wish I could said this, I wish I could say this, I've said this to say this, I've said this to say this, I've said this to my father, that my father, that my father, that if there if there if there was more money in ski racing, I was more money in ski racing, I was more money in ski racing, I would love to have a house in would love to have a house in would love to have a house in Park City, just Park City, just Park City, just because I love this because I love this because I love this place. Well, it's expensive - yes, place. Well, it's expensive - yes, place. Well, it's expensive - yes, it's really expensive, but it's really expensive, but it's really expensive, but my physical therapist my physical therapist my physical therapist lives in Midway, right lives in Midway, right lives in Midway, right next to Park City, next to Park City, next to Park City, so I spend so I spend so I spend a lot of time there, and yeah, a lot of time there, and yeah, a lot of time there, and yeah, Soldier Hollow, where the Soldier Hollow, where the Soldier Hollow, where the 2034 2034 2034 Olympics are going to be, Olympics are going to be, is where we is where we is where we do a lot of do a lot of roller-ski interval training while we're roller-ski interval training while we're there, so there, so ... ... What's the What's the appeal? In appeal? In appeal? In height, in the community? height, in the community? Yeah, you know, it's Yeah, you know, it's really high, because it's really high, because it's really high, because it's 2,300 meters, and in Europe, 2,300 meters, and in Europe, 2,300 meters, and in Europe, if you go to a place where it's if you go to a place where it's if you go to a place where it's 2,300 meters, it's more or 2,300 meters, it's more or less the top of the less the top of the less the top of the pass. So if you pass. So if you pass. So if you want to do want to do roller skiing training, you roller skiing training, you either need to either need to either need to go down to the valley, go down to the valley, go down to the valley, train there, and train there, and train there, and then climb back up then climb back up then climb back up after the after the after the session is over. But session is over. But session is over. But in Park City, I put on my in Park City, I put on my in Park City, I put on my roller skis right in roller skis right in roller skis right in the garage, I can just the garage, I can just the garage, I can just drive out, I can drive out, I can drive out, I can ride on a flat ride on a flat ride on a flat track, I can track, I can track, I can climb up to climb up to climb up to 3,000 meters, or ride 3,000 meters, or ride 3,000 meters, or ride on hills. So there are on hills. So there are on hills. So there are so many opportunities so many opportunities so many opportunities and options there for and options there for and options there for quality training, and quality training, and quality training, and I mean, I mean, I mean, it's a it's a it's a very quiet place in August-September. There are very quiet place in August-September. There are very quiet place in August-September. There are n't many people there, and the n't many people there, and the n't many people there, and the weather, weather, weather, compared to compared to compared to Norway, is just Norway, is just Norway, is just incredible, you know? incredible, you know? Being able to walk around in Being able to walk around in shorts and T-shirts in shorts and T-shirts in shorts and T-shirts in September is completely September is completely September is completely different than in Norway, different than in Norway, different than in Norway, where we are used to wearing where we are used to wearing where we are used to wearing long- long- long- sleeved clothes, and it sleeved clothes, and it sleeved clothes, and it rains all the time. rains all the time. rains all the time. all the time. all the time. all the time. Yes. So 1000 hours of Yes. So 1000 hours of Yes. So 1000 hours of training per year. training per year. Tell us about a Tell us about a typical week of typical week of typical week of training during a period of training during a period of training during a period of intense intense intense training. training. training. For example, how many For example, how many For example, how many strength exercises are there? strength exercises are there? strength exercises are there? What about roller skiers? What about roller skiers? What about roller skiers? How much time do you How much time do you How much time do you spend in the snow? spend in the snow? spend in the snow? What does it What does it What does it look like anyway? look like anyway? So, if you take a So, if you take a typical week typical week typical week in the summer, when we have the in the summer, when we have the in the summer, when we have the highest volume of highest volume of highest volume of training, from training, from training, from May 1 to the end of May 1 to the end of May 1 to the end of November, these are peak November, these are peak November, these are peak months in terms of volume. months in terms of volume. But, for example, But, for example, last week I had last week I had last week I had 32 hours of training. 32 hours of training. 32 hours of training. I had 3 hours, no, I had 3 hours, no, I had 3 hours, no, 2.5 hours of 2.5 hours of 2.5 hours of intensity 3 training, which is the intensity 3 training, which is the intensity 3 training, which is the threshold level. threshold level. threshold level. Mhm. Mhm. I have 2 hours of I have 2 hours of strength training per strength training per strength training per week. And then week. And then week. And then I have about 50% I have about 50% It's just the second zone. It's just the second zone. Although I actually hardly Although I actually hardly Although I actually hardly train in the train in the train in the second zone. second zone. second zone. Interesting. This is a really Interesting. This is a really Interesting. This is a really interesting moment. interesting moment. interesting moment. Tell me more about this Tell me more about this Tell me more about this . . So, we found out that So, we found out that if I work in if I work in if I work in zone two, it kind of zone two, it kind of zone two, it kind of destroys my fast-twitch destroys my fast-twitch destroys my fast-twitch muscle fibers. muscle fibers. Mhm. Mhm. So for myself, I So for myself, I So for myself, I determined that my determined that my determined that my intensity level is one— intensity level is one— it's actually it's actually it's actually Zone One. Zone One. Zone One. I I I spend 88% of my spend 88% of my spend 88% of my training in the first zone. training in the first zone. training in the first zone. Interesting. Interesting. Interesting. And so, for example, And so, for example, And so, for example, last week I last week I last week I trained for three trained for three trained for three hours in the morning in the hours in the morning in the hours in the morning in the first zone. Then another first zone. Then another first zone. Then another two hours in the afternoon in the two hours in the afternoon in the two hours in the afternoon in the first zone. This could first zone. This could first zone. This could be the first day. The be the first day. The be the first day. The second day I do a 30- second day I do a 30- minute warm-up, and minute warm-up, and minute warm-up, and then an hour or an then an hour or an then an hour or an hour and fifteen on the hour and fifteen on the hour and fifteen on the doorstep. Uh, and then I'm doorstep. Uh, and then I'm like, on, uh, like, on, uh, roller skis roller skis roller skis mostly, or on a mostly, or on a mostly, or on a bike? It's like, bike? It's like, yeah, I would say, in a 32- hour week like hour week like hour week like I had last I had last I had last time, I probably time, I probably time, I probably run for three or four hours. run for three or four hours. Mhm. Mhm. 3-4 hours, or 4-5 hours 3-4 hours, or 4-5 hours 3-4 hours, or 4-5 hours by bike. And the by bike. And the by bike. And the rest are roller skaters. rest are roller skaters. And roller skates—are they And roller skates—are they almost like, like these almost like, like these almost like, like these roller skates? roller skates? Yes, essentially longer Yes, essentially longer roller skates. roller skates. roller skates. We have one pair for We have one pair for We have one pair for skating style skating style , which is similar to regular , which is similar to regular , which is similar to regular skating. And then there are the skating. And then there are the skating. And then there are the classic ones, they are also classic ones, they are also classic ones, they are also very similar to the very similar to the very similar to the classic move, but classic move, but classic move, but there is a grip, so there is a grip, so there is a grip, so you can move you can move you can move diagonally and diagonally and diagonally and push off. push off. So, you have two different So, you have two different pairs of roller skis, one pairs of roller skis, one pairs of roller skis, one for each for each for each discipline. discipline. discipline. Mhm. Mhm. So most of So most of the training during the week the training during the week is rollerblading, and is rollerblading, and is rollerblading, and then we add... then we add... for example, last for example, last for example, last week I didn't run much because week I didn't run much because week I didn't run much because I knew I was going here. And I knew I was going here. And I knew I was going here. And here I didn't bring my here I didn't bring my here I didn't bring my skates with me, so here I'm skates with me, so here I'm skates with me, so here I'm just running. So I just running. So I just running. So I try to try to prioritize somehow. There prioritize somehow. There were more were more were more roller skiers than roller skiers than roller skiers than usual last week. This week usual last week. This week — more running than — more running than — more running than usual. In the end, usual. In the end, usual. In the end, I would say 10% of my I would say 10% of my I would say 10% of my training is training is training is cycling, 20-25% is cycling, 20-25% is cycling, 20-25% is running. running. Of course. That's a lot. Of course. That's a lot. Wow, more running than Wow, more running than Wow, more running than cycling. cycling. cycling. Yes. So, more running Yes. So, more running than cycling. And also, than cycling. And also, than cycling. And also, about 5% or 5 to 7% of about 5% or 5 to 7% of my workouts are my workouts are my workouts are strength exercises. And everything strength exercises. And everything strength exercises. And everything else is roller-skating else is roller-skating else is roller-skating and skiing in summer and and skiing in summer and and skiing in summer and winter. winter. Yes. There is Yes. There is a lot of a lot of a lot of confusion surrounding the second zone. It's interesting that confusion surrounding the second zone. It's interesting that confusion surrounding the second zone. It's interesting that you say that focusing you say that focusing you say that focusing on the second zone reduces on the second zone reduces on the second zone reduces your speed. This is a your speed. This is a your speed. This is a threat to your threat to your threat to your top top top speed. But I speed. But I speed. But I think the confusion here is think the confusion here is that when you're in that when you're in such great shape, such great shape, such great shape, your second zone is your second zone is your second zone is not at all what not at all what not at all what others imagine, because others imagine, because others imagine, because it becomes quite it becomes quite it becomes quite exhausting when you're exhausting when you're exhausting when you're very trained. very trained. That is, maintaining a That is, maintaining a level slightly level slightly level slightly below the threshold below the threshold below the threshold for a long for a long for a long time affects time affects time affects recovery much recovery much recovery much more than in a less more than in a less more than in a less prepared person prepared person . Many people who . Many people who . Many people who start doing start doing endurance sports say, " Zone 2 is so Zone 2 is so Zone 2 is so slow. It slow. It slow. It feels like I'm feels like I'm feels like I'm not doing anything." It's because not doing anything." It's because not doing anything." It's because you're out of shape. If you you're out of shape. If you you're out of shape. If you or Tadej Pogačar or Tadej Pogačar or Tadej Pogačar go out for a 4-hour go out for a 4-hour go out for a 4-hour workout in the second workout in the second workout in the second zone, you pay a zone, you pay a zone, you pay a high price for it that high price for it that high price for it that a person with a person with a person with worse training will not pay. worse training will not pay. Yeah, and the Yeah, and the recovery aspect here is recovery aspect here is recovery aspect here is probably probably probably the most important because for the most important because for the most important because for me it makes the me it makes the me it makes the total volume total volume total volume too high, because too high, because too high, because when I run 50 km, I'm when I run 50 km, I'm when I run 50 km, I'm working almost at my working almost at my working almost at my threshold, you know? threshold, you know? So I try to So I try to allocate an hour and a half allocate an hour and a half allocate an hour and a half or an hour and or an hour and or an hour and fifteen for fifteen for fifteen for threshold training threshold training threshold training instead of instead of instead of running for 3 hours in the running for 3 hours in the running for 3 hours in the second zone, you know second zone, you know ? Because the threshold is closer to ? Because the threshold is closer to ? Because the threshold is closer to my race pace, my race pace, my race pace, while while while cyclists cyclists spend most of their competition spend most of their competition in the second zone, in the second zone, in the second zone, you know? It's always been important for me you know? It's always been important for me to find out what exactly is to find out what exactly is needed for your needed for your needed for your sport, what are sport, what are sport, what are its requirements, its requirements, its requirements, you know? So I you know? So I you know? So I train in a way that I train in a way that I train in a way that I think is right think is right think is right for ski racing, for ski racing, for ski racing, even though I know there are many even though I know there are many even though I know there are many other ways to other ways to other ways to do it. But for me, the do it. But for me, the do it. But for me, the main thing was always main thing was always main thing was always to assess the overall to assess the overall to assess the overall impact and how much impact and how much impact and how much recovery recovery recovery each workout required. This each workout required. This each workout required. This morning I ran for morning I ran for morning I ran for an hour on the treadmill at an hour on the treadmill at 7 miles per hour, and it 7 miles per hour, and it was very easy. was very easy. was very easy. Now imagine the Now imagine the Now imagine the strain on your muscles strain on your muscles if you have to if you have to if you have to run 9 miles per hour run 9 miles per hour run 9 miles per hour just because it's just because it's just because it's zone two, you know? So the zone two, you know? So the zone two, you know? So the impact on the body is impact on the body is impact on the body is also important also important also important to consider in the to consider in the to consider in the overall amount of overall amount of overall amount of training and training and training and recovery you recovery you recovery you do. do. And you need to be And you need to be able to tick able to tick able to tick all the all the all the boxes and boxes and boxes and excel in each of excel in each of excel in each of these areas. You these areas. You these areas. You need explosive need explosive need explosive speed, but also speed, but also speed, but also aerobic aerobic aerobic endurance, not just endurance, not just endurance, not just for long distances for long distances —your aerobic fitness —your aerobic fitness —your aerobic fitness will determine how will determine how will determine how quickly you recover your quickly you recover your quickly you recover your heart rate after running heart rate after running heart rate after running uphill. Do you understand what uphill. Do you understand what uphill. Do you understand what I mean? If it's in the middle of I mean? If it's in the middle of I mean? If it's in the middle of a race, how a race, how a race, how quickly you quickly you quickly you recover recover recover from such a from such a from such a sudden acceleration sudden acceleration sudden acceleration will determine your will determine your will determine your overall overall overall race result. race result. Yes. That's true, and I Yes. That's true, and I think that think that compared to running, it's compared to running, it's easier to do, uh, easier to do, uh, easier to do, uh, cross-country skiing. cross-country skiing. That is, you That is, you go all out on the go all out on the go all out on the climbs, but then there are climbs, but then there are climbs, but then there are descents where you descents where you descents where you recover and recover and recharge before the recharge before the next climb, next climb, next climb, because in a 10 because in a 10 because in a 10 km distance you are actually going km distance you are actually going km distance you are actually going full speed full speed full speed on every climb. on every climb. So you need to use the use the descents very wisely to descents very wisely to descents very wisely to maintain maintain maintain speed but speed but speed but at the same time conserve at the same time conserve at the same time conserve and restore and restore and restore energy. energy. Why more running than Why more running than cycling? I would cycling? I would cycling? I would think that cycling think that cycling is a better and is a better and is a better and safer way safer way safer way to train the to train the cardiovascular system because cardiovascular system because cardiovascular system because there is no impact there is no impact there is no impact load. load. Yes, but running is Yes, but running is actually very actually very actually very similar to a classic similar to a classic similar to a classic ski move. So ski move. So ski move. So it's more like a bike than a it's more like a bike than a it's more like a bike than a bike, so when bike, so when bike, so when I do 3-hour I do 3-hour I do 3-hour running workouts in running workouts in running workouts in the mud, it's like... It's the mud, it's like... It's the mud, it's like... It's really challenging really challenging really challenging terrain, so it's terrain, so it's terrain, so it's hard to run, and we run with our hard to run, and we run with our hard to run, and we run with our heart rate monitored. heart rate monitored. So it's like you... So it's like you... You're imitating. You're imitating. You're imitating. You're imitating, uh, skiing a little bit. You're imitating, uh, skiing a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. more with the help of more with the help of more with the help of running. So I think that's running. So I think that's running. So I think that's why, but I don't why, but I don't why, but I don't think running think running think running is necessarily is necessarily is necessarily critical critical critical to skiing success, to skiing success, to skiing success, because one year I because one year I because one year I had a hamstring injury had a hamstring injury and I could barely and I could barely run. And that run. And that run. And that was one of those years was one of those years was one of those years when I showed my when I showed my when I showed my best results best results best results at the World Cup. So, uh at the World Cup. So, uh ... ... ... Who knows? Do you do Who knows? Do you do Who knows? Do you do regular regular regular lactate tests? lactate tests? lactate tests? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. We test We test lactate levels at almost lactate levels at almost lactate levels at almost every threshold every threshold every threshold workout, just workout, just workout, just to make sure to make sure to make sure we're on we're on we're on schedule and schedule and schedule and in the in the in the right zone. right zone. Yes. What are your Yes. What are your recovery practices recovery practices ? ? Oh, Oh, recovery practices depend a bit recovery practices depend a bit recovery practices depend a bit on whether on whether on whether you're at home or not, you're at home or not, you're at home or not, because it's not always because it's not always because it's not always easy to have everything you easy to have everything you easy to have everything you need at hand. need at hand. I'm a huge I'm a huge fan of the sauna and fan of the sauna and fan of the sauna and ice bath. So ice bath. So ice bath. So I have it at home. I have it at home. I have it at home. You wouldn't be You wouldn't be You wouldn't be Scandinavian if you Scandinavian if you Scandinavian if you said otherwise. said otherwise. said otherwise. No, I know. No, I know. No, I know. That would be treason. That would be treason. That would be treason. I I I use the sauna and use the sauna and use the sauna and ice bath quite often, and ice bath quite often, and ice bath quite often, and also also also red light therapy. And I red light therapy. And I red light therapy. And I think sleep, you know, think sleep, you know, think sleep, you know, sleep and healthy eating are sleep and healthy eating are sleep and healthy eating are key factors in my key factors in my key factors in my recovery. The recovery. The simplest things. The simplest things. The simplest things. Do simplest things. Do simplest things. Do you use you use you use compression, as they are compression, as they are compression, as they are called? Boots called? Boots ? ? ? Hyperice, yes. Hyperice, yes. Hyperice, yes. Yes, these are Hyperice. Yes, these are Hyperice. Yes, these are Hyperice. I have them, but I don't I have them, but I don't I have them, but I don't use them use them use them every day. They are every day. They are every day. They are part of my part of my part of my schedule, sometimes schedule, sometimes schedule, sometimes I want I want I want to use them, but to use them, but to use them, but sometimes it's better to just sometimes it's better to just sometimes it's better to just go to sleep, you know go to sleep, you know ? An hour of sleep in the middle of the ? An hour of sleep in the middle of the ? An hour of sleep in the middle of the day after a hard day after a hard day after a hard workout—just workout—just workout—just lying in bed and lying in bed and lying in bed and sleeping— sleeping— sleeping— is the best is the best is the best recovery, more recovery, more recovery, more effective than anything effective than anything else. Although, I think it's else. Although, I think it's else. Although, I think it's also also also good to have additional resources. Yes, or good to have additional resources. Yes, or good to have additional resources. Yes, or use them from use them from use them from time to time, but time to time, but time to time, but still sleep is the most important still sleep is the most important still sleep is the most important part. part. part. Yes. Correct me Yes. Correct me Yes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it if I'm wrong, but it if I'm wrong, but it seems the record seems the record seems the record you broke as the you broke as the you broke as the most decorated most decorated most decorated Winter Olympian Winter Olympian Winter Olympian previously belonged to Eric previously belonged to Eric previously belonged to Eric Hayden. Hayden. Hayden. This is true. This is true. This is true. American American American speed skater who rose to speed skater who rose to speed skater who rose to fame at the fame at the fame at the 1980 Lake Placid Olympics 1980 Lake Placid Olympics 1980 Lake Placid Olympics . I'm old enough . I'm old enough . I'm old enough to to to remember him remember him remember him appearing on the appearing on the appearing on the cover of Sports Illustrated cover of Sports Illustrated cover of Sports Illustrated in a gold suit with in a gold suit with in a gold suit with those incredibly those incredibly those incredibly big legs, and big legs, and big legs, and to me he was a to me he was a to me he was a hero. I was just hero. I was just hero. I was just amazed by what he amazed by what he amazed by what he did. Before that, I did did. Before that, I did did. Before that, I did n't know anything about n't know anything about n't know anything about skating, skating, skating, and then I just got and then I just got and then I just got obsessed with this obsessed with this obsessed with this guy. He later guy. He later guy. He later became an became an orthopedic surgeon and orthopedic surgeon and orthopedic surgeon and appears to live in Park appears to live in Park City. City. Yes. Yes. So I'm wondering if you guys have So I'm wondering if you guys have So I'm wondering if you guys have met before? met before? met before? Yes, we are acquaintances. A couple of Yes, we are acquaintances. A couple of Yes, we are acquaintances. A couple of years ago, I think, years ago, I think, years ago, I think, two years ago, yes. We two years ago, yes. We two years ago, yes. We had dinner at my had dinner at my had dinner at my physical therapist's house. He physical therapist's house. He physical therapist's house. He was there too. It was very was there too. It was very was there too. It was very nice. nice. nice. This is really cool. It This is really cool. It was cool was cool to chat with him, to chat with him, to chat with him, find out how they find out how they find out how they prepared their prepared their prepared their skates for the race, skates for the race, skates for the race, when they sharpened them, and when they sharpened them, and when they sharpened them, and all that other stuff. That was all that other stuff. That was all that other stuff. That was really interesting. It's obvious really interesting. It's obvious that he has a that he has a that he has a competitive spirit, so it competitive spirit, so it competitive spirit, so it was a great conversation and a was a great conversation and a was a great conversation and a great opportunity great opportunity great opportunity to get to know each other. This to get to know each other. This to get to know each other. This was before the was before the was before the World Championships in Trondheim, World Championships in Trondheim, World Championships in Trondheim, so at that time no so at that time no so at that time no one had won one had won one had won six out of six yet. six out of six yet. Yes. At the time, I didn't understand how At the time, I didn't understand how this was even possible, this was even possible, this was even possible, but maybe I but maybe I but maybe I should invite him should invite him should invite him to dinner... to dinner... I think so. I think so. this year too. That's this year too. That's this year too. That's it. I it. I it. I think you're somewhat think you're somewhat think you're somewhat similar, because he similar, because he similar, because he opened this opened this opened this little-known sport little-known sport little-known sport to a Western to a Western to a Western audience. I think he audience. I think he audience. I think he changed the changed the changed the sport forever, and I think sport forever, and I think sport forever, and I think you're doing the same you're doing the same you're doing the same for ski racing. In a for ski racing. In a very cool way. There are many people who There are many people who speculate about speculate about speculate about how many gold how many gold how many gold medals you will win medals you will win medals you will win before you end your before you end your before you end your career. Will there be career. Will there be career. Will there be another Olympics, or another Olympics, or another Olympics, or two? Do you know if there can two? Do you know if there can two? Do you know if there can be 20 gold be 20 gold be 20 gold medals? Can medals? Can medals? Can we get closer to we get closer to we get closer to Phelps? Phelps? Phelps? We can't catch up, We can't catch up, We can't catch up, we can't catch up. we can't catch up. we can't catch up. compared to 23. We'll get a compared to 23. We'll get a compared to 23. We'll get a little closer. little closer. little closer. So are So are So are you ready... you ready... If you If you optimized everything and optimized everything and optimized everything and participated in two more participated in two more participated in two more Olympics, you could Olympics, you could Olympics, you could eventually... eventually... eventually... have two even more have two even more have two even more perfect Olympics, perfect Olympics, perfect Olympics, then you could be 23, then you could be 23, then you could be 23, but but but you are the best you are the best you are the best Olympian of all time. Olympian of all time. Olympian of all time. I mean... I mean... I mean... This is serious. This is This is serious. This is This is serious. This is quite serious. quite serious. quite serious. This is quite serious. This is quite serious. Yes, I think it's going to be Yes, I think it's going to be hard, but... First of hard, but... First of hard, but... First of all, I'll say that I'll all, I'll say that I'll all, I'll say that I'll do do do one more first, but if I one more first, but if I one more first, but if I know myself well... the next one know myself well... the next one know myself well... the next one after that is in Salt after that is in Salt Lake City. It will be in Lake City. It will be in Lake City. It will be in Park City or in Park City or in Park City or in Soldier Hollow, near Soldier Hollow, near Soldier Hollow, near Park City, where I Park City, where I Park City, where I spent so much spent so much spent so much time. So for me, time. So for me, time. So for me, finishing my career in finishing my career in finishing my career in Park City would be a Park City would be a dream come true, dream come true, but that's still eight but that's still eight but that's still eight years away. Um, well, I don't years away. Um, well, I don't years away. Um, well, I don't know if that's know if that's know if that's realistic, but I'll do my realistic, but I'll do my realistic, but I'll do my best best best to stay in shape, to stay in shape, to stay in shape, take care of my take care of my take care of my body and all that; and body and all that; and body and all that; and then we'll look then we'll look then we'll look year by year, but, um, year by year, but, um, I don't think I, um, can't I don't think I, um, can't promise right now promise right now promise right now that I'll perform in 2034. that I'll perform in 2034. that I'll perform in 2034. But, um, I think But, um, I think But, um, I think I have a certain, it's kind of a I have a certain, it's kind of a I have a certain, it's kind of a dream–to do it dream–to do it . But, um, I'll take the . But, um, I'll take the . But, um, I'll take the first 4 years, and then... first 4 years, and then... we'll see. But, we'll see. But, we'll see. But, of course, the goal is to of course, the goal is to get a little closer to get a little closer to get a little closer to Phelps, although 23 will be Phelps, although 23 will be Phelps, although 23 will be difficult. difficult. You can You can only control only control only control part of it, you know, part of it, you know, part of it, you know, but I'm sure that but I'm sure that but I'm sure that whatever you can whatever you can whatever you can control, you will control, you will control, you will control. control. control. At least I will At least I will At least I will try very hard. try very hard. try very hard. Yes. Um, well, congratulations on Yes. Um, well, congratulations on Yes. Um, well, congratulations on all your all your all your successes, dude. I'm, I'm successes, dude. I'm, I'm successes, dude. I'm, I'm your fan, and, um, I'm your fan, and, um, I'm your fan, and, um, I'm here to cheer for here to cheer for here to cheer for you, dude. Um, you're you, dude. Um, you're you, dude. Um, you're one of the good one of the good one of the good guys, and it's nice guys, and it's nice guys, and it's nice to see you at this to see you at this to see you at this level. Um, you not level. Um, you not level. Um, you not only win, but you only win, but you only win, but you conduct yourself with such conduct yourself with such conduct yourself with such admirable admirable admirable integrity and dignity, integrity and dignity, integrity and dignity, and I think you're a and I think you're a and I think you're a shining example, shining example, shining example, um, for many um, for many um, for many young people around the young people around the young people around the world, um, you world, um, you world, um, you know, in striving for know, in striving for know, in striving for better, and, um, I salute better, and, um, I salute better, and, um, I salute you, my friend. you, my friend. Thank you. I am grateful for this . . . Thank you for taking the time Thank you for taking the time Thank you for taking the time to chat with to chat with to chat with me today. And me today. And me today. And enjoy New enjoy New York. York. York. Necessarily. Thank you. Necessarily. Thank you. Necessarily. Thank you. OK. Goodbye.