The Workout Women Should Be Doing (But Nobody Talks About) | Mind Pump 2806

Key Takeaway

The best strength training approach combines elements from powerlifting, CrossFit, and bodybuilding—each offering unique benefits. Start with powerlifting to build foundational strength and shift focus from appearance to performance. Progress to CrossFit-style training for mobility and movement variety. End with bodybuilding for longevity, nutritional mastery, and sustainable training that can last a lifetime. The key insight: don't drink the Kool-Aid of any single camp—understand the pros and cons of each modality and integrate what serves your goals.

Episode Overview

This episode is a deep dive debate comparing three major strength training modalities: powerlifting, CrossFit, and bodybuilding, specifically discussing which is best for women. The hosts explore the unique benefits and drawbacks of each approach, from community support and body image focus to longevity and nutritional education. They ultimately propose an ideal progression path: starting with powerlifting for foundational strength, moving to CrossFit for mobility and functional movement, and settling into bodybuilding for long-term sustainability and nutritional mastery.

Full Transcript

Transcript of The Workout Women Should Be Doing (But Nobody Talks About) | Mind Pump 2806 from Mind Pump Show. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

The best form of strength training for women, for most women, the vast majority of women, is powerlifting. Challenge me. I dare you. Powerlifting for women. Oh, I want to make I I'm going to say bodybuilding, bro. bodybuilding, bro. bodybuilding, bro. Yeah. Well, let me tell you where I came from, where I'm coming from with this and then I think this will be a good discussion. discussion. discussion. No, I mean, somebody out there is saying that. that. that. We sure for sure. So, that's a great discussion.

Uh so uh ran into a friend of mine uh at the gym this morning. And she's relatively new uh to strength training. So some she hasn't been doing this for years. It's been less than a year. Uh she's been getting fit, getting into it, tracking macros, the whole thing. And I walk by her working out. Okay. So she's bench pressing. Yeah. And like I said, she's relatively new. She has like 135 pounds on the bar. So I walk by, I see her, I say hi to her.

I doing a set and then I'm registering my head like what is that? like someone needs to tell her she's really strong, you know? So, I go over to her and I talk to her. I'm like, "Have you ever thought about powerlifting?" She's like, "No." I'm like, "I think that I mean, you have a kid." kid." kid." Oh, she's not even a powerlifter. No, no, no. She's just working out on her own. She's in fact, she worked out with a trainer for a little while. Like, this is totally new to her.

Wow. Wow. Wow. So, then I'm thinking about it and you know, powerlifting is so good for women in particular for a few different reasons. number one of all of the strength sports, strength sports, strength sports, uh, and there's other ones that are that are like this, but powerlifting's not it's very not body image focused. It's very much not focused on how you look, which benefits a lot of people, but especially women because women redirects it more to strength. Yeah. And they're constantly told that their value is how they look and they pursue fitness for the look.

I know this is true for men as well, but it's women are especially hammered with this message. It's all about how you look. Then number two, it's about getting strong. And it's hard to starve yourself and undereat and overtrain and overc cardio. cardio. cardio. It doesn't move the needle. You're not getting stronger. So if you're focused on powerlifting, getting stronger, stronger, stronger, that tends to correct a lot of those other things. And then lastly, I was thinking about community. And I'm thinking, you know, here's this young woman.

woman. woman. She's in getting into fitness. She's starting to lift weights. What a great community to be a part of. It's so supportive. It's like one of the community I've never It's one of the best communities I've ever witnessed where you could be old, young, you could be a beginner, you could be objectively strong, objectively not strong, and everybody is like, "You could do it. This is awesome." And it's just like really supportive. So when I combine that with some of the struggles that women tend to be uniquely challenged with, I think like this is a great D.

I don't think it's the beall end all, but I think it's the best. So this is an interesting argument. So, if we were to take like the three like most popular like CrossFit, powerlifting, and bodybuilding. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you were to take So, let's just say we're going to argue those three and then we're going to say things like uh like you said, body image, strength, community, community, community, sculpting the body, community, uh, and we were to take each one, I wouldn't give Yeah. Longevity.

There's you got to have everything. Right. Right. So, longevity. I think that absolutely should be in there. Um I so and if those are like the the main attributes that we're seeking then I I don't think that powerlifting wins in the community department. I think CrossFit wins in the community department. So I think they they they they beat them. They definitely have a make an argument. Oh yeah, they definitely have a great as much as none of us here are pro big crossfit that was their big sell.

Yeah. And I mean it's very obvious to me uh like almost everybody I've ever tried to talk out of CrossFit. That's the number one reason why fervorous. Yeah. They're like I I love my community. I love people and and normally that's what I I I would normally go, hey, we'll keep doing it then. Just try and modify this and I try and modify things. Um so I think they win there. Uh longevity. I think bodybuilding wins. I agree. I agree. I agree. You know, so I also think bodybuilding wins on uh sculpting.

Now body image wins for powerlifting for sure. like cuz and and the way you presented it I think that's a fair argument because uh in our experience um you know I think es especially women I think get marketed to and have been marketed to for a very long time this you know skinny petite yeah be smaller look I think that's changing I think uh and I actually credit CrossFit for a lot of that because I think you started to see these women with like shape and strength to them that has gotten uh I think being a strong or a muscle mommy has become has become has become uh more popular.

But if you ask I mean I don't know I'm uh now uh if I if if I could take the competition out of all three of them. So no no powerlifting competition, no CrossFit competition, but just the style of training, I go bodybuilding all day because I definitely think that um the the competition of bodybuilding would lose for me for the for the diet aspect. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, because you because you because you Well, you mean the body image and the diet as bad both. You you you create such a a bad relationship with food with the having to track every single macro and diet to an extreme that you don't feel good even when you're working out.

You have to push through beyond that to get up on stage and present and actually win. So, I think if you take the competition out of it and just said, "Hey, I'm going to train bodybuilder style." I would argue that that is the number one. Well, so here's where I'll actually disagree with you and I think it's going to be a way that's going to surprise you. Um, I'm thinking of the community and less of the competition. Like a powerlifting gym, not necessarily competing or a CrossFit gym or a bodybuilding gym.

Uh, but your competition puts a whole another whole another spin. another spin. another spin. Yeah. And they all have that. But diet-wise, uh, bodybuilding lifestyle, you learn the most about diet. Now, if it's body image focus, that could go in a wrong direction. But people who bodybuild and train in that way for years nutritionally, they know diet. Powerlifters, you don't know diet. No, you you can get away. They typically don't know. You need energy. energy. energy. On powerlifting is so long as you're wellfed, you you can perform.

In fact, the bottom line, there's no there's no In fact, the criticisms and the opposites that they they go and eat too much garbage or whatever, right? Because they realize that man, when they're super filled up with glycogen and full on calories, they lift really good. for the wellness space. Uh it was the bodybuilding space that understood wellness. They were the first ones to talk about gluten and sugar and processed food versus it was actually bodybuilders that were talking about this stuff before. I mean I I there's videos of of Gaspari uh Rich Gaspari.

He's like a bodybuilder in the 80s who was talking about uh like gluten and how that affected uh you know water retention on his body. Yeah. And process. This is back in the 80s. If you said gluten in the 80s anywhere, people would have thought you made up a word. Like nobody even knew what that was, for example. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I think for diet, uh, understanding bodybuilding crushes all of them. Uh, in terms of supportive community, I'll go with powerlifting. Here's another thing though that powerlifting is not good at is the powerlifting movements, as great as they are, are severely limiting.

severely limiting. severely limiting. Way limited. Way limited. Way limited. Severely limiting. Severely limiting. Severely limiting. Even more limited than bodybuilding. Longevity, too. It's pretty slim. But I do feel like it it just destroys all of them in terms of base level strength and like starting point. That's right. So I would I would make an argument we start there. I know you can make an argument for bodybuilding in terms of filling your muscles, but for me overall um output uh matters most and then we can build and tweak and sculpt, you know, from there.

Well, the irony of all this in my opinion is that none of us are making the argument for CrossFit. Yet, I think if CrossFit was done in a non-comp competitive type of format, the the type of exercise, of exercise, of exercise, then it' be functional fitness. It' be the most It would be exactly that's where the term came from. It would be just ran away from it. It would be the most functional and it would be the most beneficial of longevity because I mean throwing and and the different planes you move in and sled dragging and jumping and like so many.

many. many. Yeah. You take the extreme intensity programmed in a class. Yeah. Became dysfunctional fitness. But if you take the the the the you know the ethos of CrossFit like the baseline ethos is uh physical performance balance. Do you have stamina? Do you have strength? Do you have power? Do you have movement? Uh CrossFit from there they crush. They do great with that. Uh whereas powerlifting is very limited. Bodybuilding not as limited but also limited. But I will say this, functional training has its roots in bodybuilding.

Now people are going to be like, "What?" Bodybuilders Bodybuilders Bodybuilders uh didn't come at it from the same uh perspective. They weren't thinking functional. They were thinking, symmetry, balance, symmetry, balance, symmetry, balance, aesthetics. aesthetics. aesthetics. So they always had an their mentality was always don't have a part of my body that is underdeveloped uh or not in balance with the others. Right? Now, they didn't have a full understanding of what that meant, but their understanding is what led to this idea of, oh, I got to train all these different ways.

Powerlifting is very limited. You're you're I mean, you're three lifts and then everything else is to get better at those three lifts. It's very sagittal plane. And if you pursue it for too long with too high of a focus, injury becomes Yeah. I feel like bodybuilding stumbles across functional training because of uh trying to hit different angles. And so it's like, you know, they find their way into these body positions that are very functional, you know, eventually, but it's still very focused on like where can I feel and squeeze and get a different, you know, aspect of the muscle to grow and develop.

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All of that together. All of it 50% off. $147 gets you all of that right now. Go check it out. Go to mapsmar.com. Here comes the show. But you want like talk about community like imag like go into a body like today a bodybuilding gym. Imagine like the the person I'm thinking of the avatar is a woman who wants to get fit. going to a bodybuilding gym, a powerlifting gym, or a CrossFit gym. Uh, you know, the powerlifting, you think of the average woman is gonna have this community and the style of training that's going to move her the furthest away from these roadblocks that women tend to run into.

Crossfit can do the same thing, but CrossFit, I don't think, is as effective as powerlifting because there's an element of CrossFit. No, I not at all. I don't think I like intensity. It's I think it's last place for for the for the the three of those. But bodybuilding's got this like like this environment of like look at yourself, look in the mirror. I 100% I I lose that argument all day. I I know I do. Like that's that's the problem with bodybuilding is it's so much focused on image and since I think most our clients I mean we spent most of our career uh still to this day.

I mean, it's why we don't use transformation photos for the business. Y is we've stuck our ground uh or stood our ground for a very long time on trying to get the average person to get away from measuring their success purely off of how they look. Yes, I get it. I told of course I get it. Um but if that's your main focus, the average person, it drives you in the wrong direction. And so and it and it ends up 90% of the time ends up being an unhealthy uh addiction or issue or uh body image issue.

And so um for that reason I think powerlifting lays one of the best bases like right. So if I like I have a fresh young lady who not doesn't know any of she doesn't know any of that. of that. of that. Super fresh Super fresh Super fresh doesn't know any of the the fresh to lifting weights. fresh clean fresh. fresh. fresh. So, So, So, you know, and has has no idea what those modalities are, right? And I I have the opportunity to introduce her to one of the three.

the three. the three. Um, it makes the most sense to introduce and also for another reason too to powerlifting to get your argument, back up your argument is it simplifies. It's like these three lifts will take Yes. take you so far and are are so fundamental to any like let's say you wanted to go do CrossFit later or you wanted to do bodybuilding. That's a nice starting point. It's a great starting point. It's like why over why take you right into bodybuilding and have you doing you know side tricep presses and doing weird things that like to hit an angle and and you could really quickly get caught up in all that minutiae.

Or why throw you into CrossFit right away and you're already doing baseball throws and we all these other things. cuz it's just like, hey, go squat, you know, go bench, go deadlift, go learn the like these basic fundamental movements that you're going to get some great functionality from that. You're going to get incredible strength from that. You're going to get some great aesthetics from that. Uh, and then we can we can build off of that. Well, yeah. I mean, it's hard to cuz I like we're kind of not highlighting a lot of the benefits like CrossFit brings cuz it's it's not a great representation of that side of pursuit.

If I'm trying to be more movement focused, I'm trying to be like skill specific, like what can I build and develop, what, you know, my abilities, um, you know, they they don't segment it. And so, like training itself for me, this is where I always have like the biggest criticism because it's like where I lean. Like if I was to pick out of the three of them, I'd probably lean more in the CrossFit side of the fence. However, it's just it doesn't uh I don't program it anywhere near, you know, the same way that they do because it's when you're building and developing skill, you have to have that kind of focused attention and specificity.

Uh which is very much lacking on that. Um, you know, and and again, this is very community based. So, it's like everybody's kind of like in the trenches together. That's the problem is that it's it's still it's still class based. That's also the plus. That's also the plus. I mean, I have a good friend of mine, uh, Chuck. You guys know Chuck, and, uh, I tease him all the time, uh, about about about tons of cross friends because it's brutal. brutal. brutal. I mean, it's so it's so funny, by the way.

We tease each other, right? So, I annoy him on purpose. I will send So, he's a pastor. I love sending him conspiratorial conspiratorial conspiratorial uh, like end of times uh, like preachings like, "Bro, check this out. The signs are here." He gets so mad cuz he's a theologian, right? He's like, "No, that's not what the deal." So, he'll get like I could tell he's being calm but annoyed with me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then meanwhile, he'll send me stuff that he's doing. I'm like, "Bro, dude, why did you do that part of your workout?" Like, he'll send me a picture of his hands with his hand torn, you know, part of it torn off.

I'm like, "You think that's like a good workout that that happened?" But my point with it is when we when we all when we stop teasing each other and we're just, you know, brass tax, he's like he's like, "So, I love the friendships that love the I love the friendships that I've made there." Yeah. And I've never felt so encouraged. Yeah. You know, I feel so encouraged. Everybody's like supportive. It's a great community. And I'm like, you know what? You can't downplay that because he and he would tell you he'd be the first one to tell you that his relationship with fitness, his whole life was on and off.

It was never consistent. It was either go run like crazy, lose a bunch of weight, then stop, and then eat like crazy. This is the first time he's ever been super consistent. And it has nothing to do with the programming. Has zero to do with that. Has everything to do with that he's been a part of this uh of this great community. And from a fitness uh professionals perspective, uh CrossFit nailed this so hard. They nailed this so well that they went from nothing to being dominant uh in a very short period of time in a space where you see very little of that.

You see very little like big to the point where normal gyms, big box gyms change their floor plans because of CrossFit. They literally added and changed things because of their influence. So that part right there, right there, right there, huge huge huge fall off though. Huge fall off though. Big fall off. But but but what what's stuck around were the good parts of it. I think what you're saying is a lot of the stuff that Justin So okay. So let's let's imagine this for a second because this would be a fun experiment.

Uh you're going to take this fresh person Justin for you. So fresh. What what's a better what's a for lack of a better word? Yeah. A brand new like Yeah. Well, brand new. And what I mean by like never trained any mod. And we're going to the we're going to take them through all three. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So, they they they have to go all three or they're going to go through all three. Okay. three. Okay. three. Okay. How am I going to order it or and and then what am I going to coach telling them as you go through the journey?

So, I know that they're eventually going to make it through all three. And I want them to get the most out of each one of these things and what they have to offer, but also be weary of each. Wow. each. Wow. each. Wow. So, what a cool cuz here's So, what a cool cuz here's what I cuz as as we're talking about this, I'm thinking about all of us have experience in all three of these. Justin and I probably did a little more CrossFit stuff than you did, but we all have experience in all these.

And so, u I think the best is knowing the best of all of it and knowing how to individualize it for you. Oh, no doubt. No doubt. No doubt. No doubt. So, imagine somebody who's imagine a a young or soon to be fitness enthusiast is like, well, I want I want I want to learn like where do you where do we start? start? start? Uh what are you telling them? What are you coaching them about that as they're as they're going through that first one? Then where do you tell them to go second and why?

and what are you coaching and telling them to look out for? And then third and final, I have a pretty initial strong opinion that I think uh I could support pretty well. So, well. So, well. So, okay, okay, okay, I would start with powerlifting. Okay, Okay, Okay, because you're learning uh the basic big lifts. You're also I focus is off how I look. look. look. It's focused on performance. It's focused on strength. I have no focus on diet aside from making sure I'm eating enough to get strong, which is actually a good place to start.

Then I would move to CrossFit, a good community. So a good CrossFit gym, so I can learn more movements. I can have fun with the community. I could push myself with stamina in different ways. I didn't with with Power. with Power. with Power. You're also going to pick up a tremendous amount of mobility, mobility. And and then diet now is getting a little bit more advanced and and I'm getting more with my diet in terms of okay, what makes me feel good? What's giving me a little bit more stamina?

I can't be bloated like I did before when I was just squatting and deadlifting. Now I got to like think about that a little bit. And in the end, I would go bodybuilding because by this point, I've built a solid, secure foundation with strength training. I understand performance. I've been doing this long enough where I'm not so jaded or so easily affected by the mirror and by the scale. And now I can learn anatomy. I can get way more detailed with diet. It's not going to take me over.

Um, and then bodybuilding, let's face it, like that style of training will take you to the end of your life. Whereas CrossFit and power, you'll probably have to stop. So that's interesting. What? So would you go that way? Well, cuz I I could argue it a little bit different. Like the nutrition part I think is why I probably would agree uh with that format, but like if we kind of if I took them to powerlifting and then we went to bodybuilding, I feel like we could focus more on muscle activation and and I could get uh a little more familiar in terms of like um you know, unilateral uh type of focus like body awareness.

Um it it's more like hypertrophy if you look at it more from like an OPT model. Let's say like we're building our base level strength. Now we're like adding in like hypertrophy is like this is this is now we're building the muscles up and developing so and then expressing them. Now we're expressing at the peak because to me CrossFit is a very small uh like just like you would like the pinnacle of your training. You're going for power. You're going for high risk. So I look at it as high risk training.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I'm not going to go to high risk until until until Good argument. Good argument. Good argument. Until we get to That's a That's a really good programming argument. programming argument. programming argument. That is That is a really good argument. In fact, I was going to agree with S until you said that because that is such a great a great a great argument because I would want this person to person to person to but the nutrition kind of messes it up. No, you're right.

Well, and and you know what also what I agree with S, which is funny because how this started was you made the case that you you know powerlifting being the place for the the female client and I made the argument for bodybuilding. I I agree with your pathway and then guess what? Bodybuild for the rest of your life now. Yeah. Like you have the you have you've now got a great base strength. You've now learned all the mobility, moving in different planes, unilateral stuff. You got all the great stuff that CrossFit has, endurance train, all the great stuff that CrossFit has to offer.

Now go spend the rest of your life in bodybuilding and just incorporate those other things whenever you want to and need to and you're set for life in my opinion. opinion. opinion. But from a programming perspective, Justin makes a great argument that CrossFit's the ultimate expression. It is requires the most and and and high risk because not only are you doing explosive type movements, you're also pairing them together and and running them in for time. You have to have really good body awareness. awareness. awareness. Yeah.

Which puts you in in super high risk. And so for that reason, having as much experience as I can uh training cuz maybe, you know, if you go the pathway you're saying, you know, maybe you're you present high risk or or higher injury risk, right? you you just started doing powerlifting say for six months or a year you get really good and strong at it then you go right away to all these other like now you're throwing a baseball baseball baseball you know what I'm saying like that that's a that would be you know so interesting argument from a a programming perspective I think where it sounds like most of us agree though is you land in bodybuilding long term like for for risk versus control the best for longevity yeah unilateral stuff hitting all the body parts you know what I'm saying symmetry and balance is still And it's the most advanced diet uh and then and then for the average person who doesn't know how to control macros and balance calories and stuff like that.

I mean I and the argument too for me was hopefully by that point you're secure enough in yourself. I'll use you as an example, Adam. example, Adam. example, Adam. You started strength training for the same reasons I did, right? Felt insecure, skinny, want to get bigger, whatever. You didn't bodybuild competitively until way later when you when you had already built a nice you've already you're a secure man. Imagine if you competed in bodybuilding like two years after starting how that would have spun you. Sure. Sure.

Sure. So that's part of my my I think the big thing to understand too with this is that what's what's cool about this is you plan on doing this for the rest of your life. your life. your life. If you don't I think the smartest thing to do is understand the pros and cons of each. each. each. Yes. Yes. Yes. And and know how to move in and out of all all all Well, that that's the truth of all this because obviously there's people listening right now that is in one of these camps that's arguing and angry, right?

Because you know, but the the truth is my team. You should you you should have elements of all of it. You know, there's there's there's great elements. They they're not they don't become a modality and stick around for this long unless there's a lot of really good things about them. Bottom line. and we can sit here and we can pull I think that's what's been fun about writing our programs together. It's like, you know, we're addressing these different communities and we're like here you you can literally try it uh first here and then jump over into this next demographic.

next demographic. next demographic. Well, and you and we're writing them from the perspective of having experienced all this. That's right. You know what's cool too about this and we didn't even touch on this. The experience of training in each of these is so different. Like I've although I've never I never did a lot of CrossFit, I've done that style of training when I was doing a lot of Brazilian jiu-jitsu. Brazilian jiu-jitsu. Brazilian jiu-jitsu. It's a very diff it's a good feeling. It's a good feeling to feel like you have stamina, some strength, some agility.

It feels greatower, but it's a very different feeling than when I'm grinding out, you know, singles, doubles, and triples of really heavy weight. That's also an awesome feeling, which is very different from the feeling I get when I'm bodybuilding and I get the pump and I can sculpt my body and I'm do this high volume style training. All of them are these wonderful I mean I all three of them if I got into them I just have this incredible experience and I think it's I think people should seek them out and really understand those experiences.

experiences. experiences. No, I think there's a lot of value go in. So the the the problem that everybody has is they drink the Kool-Aid of the camp. You know what I'm saying? Versus going in and going like, "Hey, I'm interested in this thing. I'm going to appreciate dive all the way into it." And I think that has more to say about my personality than maybe even when I landed. You make a good point. Like maybe if I did land peak insecure is 17, 19year-old Adam, maybe it would have done something.

But this has always been my personality. One, I've always been against the like I'm never like I never want to be fit in a box. Well, it didn't happen that way for a reason, reason, reason, right? Like like Yeah. So, I've always been that person that to not want to be in a box. Oh, everyone's doing that. I mean, why the only reason why I'm not doing jiu-jitsu is cuz everybody does it. Like, it. Like, it. Like, I know. Oh, with all my heart I want, hey, with all my heart I want to do it.

But then the other other other every podcaster in the Yes. The other part of me is like everybody's doing kung fu, bro. There's no podcast kung fu. I was going to do Wing Chung. Yes. just show but that just just highlights that's my personality, right? And so you know as much as I would get into each one of these things, I never would fully drink the Kool-Aid is I'm like I'm not going to identify. I'm like I am not how much more marketable we would have been especially with this topic like you bodybuilder, you powerlift and me CrossFit guy.

CrossFit guy. CrossFit guy. It would have been Oh, you're right. It would have been if we were if we all had a camped a camped a camped that we fought for the entire time. It would it would actually probably made for a better and that's what people want drama. drama. drama. But the truth is there's so much good from from all of them. I know where you know that comes from though, guys. It's not because it's because we train people. That's where it comes from. It's because if I never trained a lot of people, I'd probably be much more in a camp.

camp. camp. Sure. But you work with enough people, enough different personalities, enough different life experiences that you start to see the value in all this stuff. stuff. stuff. You know, you know what's cool? Nuance matters. Even though uh I can't quite credit CrossFit for doing this because I I kind of got this outside of CrossFit, although I know CrossFit could you could get this. Um each one of them there's three attributes that I think made me a like what I now consider a good coach. I've openly said first five, seven years terri I was a terrible trainer.

Terrible trainer. trainer. trainer. But like three attributes that I think make me really [ __ ] good at what I do. Um what and I've gotten from each one of those the the skill and ability to teach uh powerlifting movements is a skill in itself. Oh yeah. I mean it's it's it's part of why when I was at first five years of training, I never even taught deadlift. deadlift. deadlift. I was scared to death to do it and much less teach it. And then it took me years of getting really proficient at it to where I could coach it and actually really cue it and see something and like so that that is a and man that makes a good and those are the most fundamental movements.

So that's a huge attribute that I have that I didn't get until I went through like powerlifting style of training for a long period of time. time. time. Bodybuilding which was later in my career that I experienced dude my level of nutrition right coaching and like bro that's what you bring to the podcast. Oh my god. That's like like it it it it was so and it was wild to me because I actually thought I was already a really a really a really Yeah. It felt like you know every average person needs to you know I I thought I was pretty good.

It took me to a whole another level of understanding and coaching to somebody else, right? Like to where where I can look at a body and go like this is what's what's what's bro when it comes to X's and O's and this and that and that many grams of this and that. Bodybuilders are the scientist scientist scientist and it and it and it it does it takes you to and then even though I didn't really get this from CrossFit, I think you could credit CrossFit like my mobility mobility mobility like what I got from Dr.

Brink and the time that I spent with him and all the learning that I went deep on my my mobility journey which you could argue that element comes from CrossFit or it's embedded in CrossFit. And I think those three things in a coach if you if you have elite level of those three like you are are are oh yeah oh yeah oh yeah who are you not able to like point like who are you not able to like completely help to a extreme level like name it name me name me a client that you come across that if those are three really strong attributes and again this is not my point of this was not me to pump my own tires it's just that my journey of going through all those when I think back of like you know hey what I admit I was been a shitty coach for a long time.

Uh I I I I believe I'm really good at what I do today. What are what what if I had to distill it down to three like badass attributes? Those are the three. Of course. Of course. Of course. Right. 100%. Right. 100%. Right. 100%. Would you not agree that those are probably the three that like you is there anything? Am I going to say am I missing like you put correctional exercise with the mobility which is why I put in that category. But I mean I guess you could qualify.

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, I would. Right. I would say that and maybe you because that that could get even a little bit Kelly Starret stuff in there. You're good. Yeah. My influence was I I I was blessed. I I was I've been so blessed to have these opportunities but be put in front of me where I learned from people who know so much more than me. Like I got powerlifting experience early on from older powerlifters who showed me the major lifts. Uh bodybuilding was always something I was into.

So that was just me reading and learning about it. And then the mobility and and uh uh correctional exercise. I had a badass physical therapist that worked in my studio with me for eight years that I get to watch and see what she could do and just listen. It was a tiny studio so I was like I could hear everything like those things right there. Oh my gosh. Like great combination. Okay, so let's take it a layer deeper because you just have anything and you you did Justin by saying uh giving Kelly Star his love because I think it's Well, I think he's he Oh yeah.

Oh, he's a champion. Oh yeah, for sure. Maybe if not the most important person to CrossFit in my opinion. Y um I mean obviously Greg Glassman created it so you can get Rob on that side but I but Kelly Starret with with mobility really saved it. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. In fact all my CrossFit without Kelly Starret dies Starret dies Starret dies without addressing the mobility. Yeah. They wouldn't hide all the Exactly. They would still have the throwing up throwing up throwing up class. So, so I'm going to So, let's try and come up with a book, a book, a philosophy or a teacher for each one of those.

If like that's like you were you Oh, god. Oh, god. Oh, god. So, I I think supple leopard for for starting for I think starting strength is a great one. Bodybuilding. Bodybuilding. Bodybuilding. I can't you can't say Arnold's. I think so. Really? Really? Really? Yeah. I think because you're going to have uh movements for every body part. Do like good basic diet uh advice in there. Uh it's they call it the encycl the encyclopedia. Well, he he called it that, but I think people refer to it as that for a reason.

So, I think body I think the the encyclopedia of bodybuilding would be a good place to start. I really do. Had a huge impact on me as a kid. Yeah, he didn't have enough on me. That's why I struggle with this one. Ironically, the one You have any that? No, that's I was trying to come to my I got you know, I got to give our boy credit good friend of ours. Um I got a lot from Lane during my years. Oh, sure. That's how I found Lane.

I found Lane because I actually thought he like there was a transition in the was a there was a transition in the bodybuilding uh world of uh very old kind of science around nutrition and diet diet diet reverse dieting. reverse dieting. reverse dieting. Yeah. Yeah. Everything. I mean even like sodium and water intake and there was a lot of things that the bodybuilding lane changed that. Yeah. Lane had a big influence on the natural bodybuilding space uh early on and and again a lot of bodybuilding back in Arnold days uh well that's not true because Barn that wasn't high steroid day but a lot of the information came from anabolic side of things things things um and the and like the fine there was also one person telling another and this is what worked for me.

There wasn't any science. Yeah. I felt like I I felt like Lane did such a good job uh of that during that time. And take him or leave him as far as like he's your personality or not, but I have to give him credit for being somebody who was very influential for you. you. you. I agree. He came out real big when uh uh like bodybuilding forums were really big and so he had this huge impact through all of that. Yeah. Yeah. He stuck around a long time because I mean like like you said like him or or not with personalitywise uh like the guy he communicates things that I mean very very well very well done back.

Yeah. So his his sign and he has obviously incredible understanding of programming so because he's also got a powerlifting background with his bodybuilding. So he's he's definitely very very uh you know what's unfortunate is he probably doesn't get the love he deserves because he doesn't have this crazy genetic physique. physique. physique. Oh. So he doesn't look So for you think bodybuilding, you think Arnold right away because of how he looks. Oh, you mean for bodybuilding? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But like if I were but like and I'm not I'm not I'm not a fan of Arnold's programming.

Arnold's programming. Arnold's programming. I mean I mean I mean Oh no. programming. I was thinking powerlifting would be like Louis Simmons or like Westside. Oh god. They changed the game. Have to put him in there. 100%. Yeah. So, I'm I just thought that would be a fun way to take this like let's say you're not a trainer who wants to technically go through all these cuz cuz that here's the other thing. I mean, we've read all those things and experienced all those things. That's the the just the the ultimate is have you read all all the greatest minds in those or some of the greatest minds you say all of them be exaggeration but some of the greatest minds in those fields and then have you gone through it yourself.

So, can you can communicate communicate communicate and then go work with a good coach who's got experience. Yeah. cuz cuz when you throw a wrench in of different personalities and body types and variances and all kinds of stuff. Uh now what you think you know gets challenged. I so many times what I thought was right would get challenged because it just didn't work with a client for whatever reason and I'd have to throw it out the window and go, "Okay, let me consider this other thing." You know, uh talking about our friends, uh that it's been on here and been friends of ours for a long time.

Another one. Are you guys watching our friend Drew Canoli right now? Oh, he's doing great. great. great. Viral video after viral video. I So, this is the the business side. He communicates that wellness side very well. well. well. Well, you want you want to hear the geek side, the side that I get like, okay, so I get an opportunity to talk to a lot of these friends of ours that are like the the founders and stuff. He's a founder of Organifi for people listening. listening. listening.

Yeah. So, he's a founder of Organifi. You've actually known him even longer than I have. Um, I've maintained a close relationship, so I talk to him fairly regularly. him and Mike Matthews and many other these founders of big companies that are friends of ours and uh I love getting to know like the behind the-scenes stuff and like I've watched that whole journey of that company uh you know move its way all the way up to like a hundred million dollar company and then watch it come all the way down way down way down and and a lot of that had to be with with Drew stepping in and out of the company company company like he's always been a part of it but he stepped back for many years like after it really shot up we first got introduced to him in fact when we first got introduced he was he had a different CEO in place and I remember being really fascinated with this because mind pump was really early and at that time I really wrestled with this idea of like you know should I step aside and like like hire somebody else to to run to run us right and tell us what to do like I'm very at that point not knowing what was the right call and and remember thinking about the different plays that we could do and so and then seeing him do that made me feel like oh that's the right thing to do when you get to a certain point point point be wise enough to like remove yourself from it.

Don't let your ego get in the way that you need a hat. So, I had so much respect for that. But then it also took a huge dive. Well, Drew, Well, Drew, Well, Drew, he has now reinserted himself. He's got a he's uh he's a big huge part of it. He's very um what's the word? He's brilliant brilliant brilliant in understanding uh for lack of a better term or better description the wellness side of supplements and health. And he also communicates it very well. Yeah. Uh but and he gets it because he lives it.

So this is why Organifi is one of those brands that needs that vision. It's not just a supplement company because if it was then you're just competing with other sub although they have great products. They're tested across the board like they they have some of the most rigorous testing. They even test for glyphosates. Here's the trends. Uh but their formulations uh are are very very smart because of the team that they have. But more than that, it's like this visionary company that leads wellness. And without someone like Drew who's a leader, he's a thought leader in that space.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Good luck. And so now that he's on social media and communicating like things that are around health and wellness, he does it so well and he gets it. He gets how to communicate it. He gets how to talk about talk about talk about the science but also the experience and he knows what people need to hear because he's one of those people. What was the name of his YouTube? Trying to replace them is impossible. No, you can't. You can't. That's just, you know, it's also a sign of the times, too.

I think it's like this is companies want the face of the brand now. And there's so many faceless brands out there and and supplements are another one and supplements are one of those things where it's like how do I know I trust it? Now, of course, you know, we've co-signed for them for a very long time. So, that does I'm sure that why we're partners with them still. But having him back as like the face and talking I I don't remember what it was when he reintroduced himself again uh to Instagram.

But I mean he's in in the millions like just watched him explode. Whatever that formula is, he knows it like in and out. Yeah. And he just steps in. in. in. So so good. You know what I love about Drew is he's s he's a great guy. You meet him, you just you love the guy. He's a really good guy. He's out there just enough. Uh, but he's not like he owns it. He's not. Yes, he owns it. And he's not one of those out there people that's like hyper sensitive.

Yeah. I like that he's a weirdo and he like owns it to hang out with us. Like if we like you, we start to tease you. This is what we do. So So we're we're guys like that. And Drew's like he's not like sensitive or whatever. He loves it. Takes it. He owns it. owns it. owns it. I'll give you an example. I'll give you an example I'll give you an example of of of people that who he's like and how they were different is uh Ben Greenfield is like this.

Yeah, but Ben Greenfield took a lot longer to warm up to us. Drew was like instantly like Drew the first time we could be we were all in a room together. We could talk [ __ ] like that. Remember when he came in remember he came into that meeting and he was wearing that it looked like a sergeant uh was that what's that Sergeant Pepper? Yeah Yeah Yeah jacket. I'm like bro it's a nice Beatles jacket. jacket. jacket. No right away like didn't didn't where where Ben was like Ben took Ben took a little while to warm up to us.

you did. And and both guys, you know what I what I enjoy most about them and I know they they're somewhat controversial figures online and you know, we've gotten to become friends and know them very very well. And the thing that I respect the most about both of those guys that I think they get a lot of scrutiny around is being these kind of hippie- dippy biohack guys, but they live it. There is a lot of people It's not fake. There is a lot of people that have jumped on that bandwagon and they're and Yes.

and they they pitch it, they preach it, they talk all about it, but they like they those guys live that lifestyle and are really really into that. And listen, if like the the newest ashwagandha or whatever thing that everyone's talking about like the the the hell of studies supporting it, you know, it's like established whatever the newest the newest thing, you know, what's the what's the new the uh the last one that we we that has blown every blown every blown every Sheila, you know, he's always on the the front end of that.

That was the one I was looking for. Yeah. Yeah. That's But it's so true though. like he's he's always the guy to be the first one and then I feel like everybody else kind of follows that trend. That's right. They did set that trend trend started with Organifi. He probably started the Ashwag. Green juice was him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Green juice was him. You're right. Green juice was not popular. All those other brands that are huge and everybody knows about Organizable. Their flagship product. What you say?

Marketable. Marketable. Marketable. I love Paul, but I just tuned in to him the other day. Paul's too Paul's too Paul's too abrasive. He's great, dude. I love him just cuz he's always going to be Paul. be Paul. be Paul. Yeah, he is. And he's always going to wear the same pants. pants. pants. Yep. No matter what. Yeah. I just watched him rock the other day. I was like, what? I was just, you know, it was funny that you bringing him up. So funny you brought him up cuz I actually haven't he I mean he's so uh the algorithm does not like him.

You know what I'm saying? Like cuz he's definitely the ultimate controversial like like like anti-establishment everything guy. And I actually was like, you know what? I he hasn't popped in my feed forever. You have to look him up. I I had to look him up because I wanted to see what he's been up to and I'm like, man, all this crazy Epstein stuff. I wonder if I was like so curious like what has Paul got to say, right? Like I could I wanted to and actually and actually and actually That's a good call.

Yeah. Yeah. I was like, dude, he's got to be love to hear it down. But I actually was surprised to see he hasn't uh been addressing this. Dude, you know, it's funny. So, but maybe because if you know Paul, Paul's like, this is old news. I knew this. Yeah, you could have asked me. Yeah. 70s and 80s. I could have told you about Dude, you know my favorite my favorite flex that anybody's ever tried to do on us with Paul. When we first met him, him, him, it's and it's such a like let me establish myself real quick to you guys.

We show up to his house to interview him years ago. This is like seven years ago, eight years ago maybe. We fly to interview this guy. Paul answers the door, brings us outside, and then just takes out his wang and takes a piss right in front of us right outside. Like, hey, mid conversation. Yeah, like I believe he's hiding. I don't think he broke conversation. I believe he was still still still He's not trying to hide or anything. Yeah, he's watering the police. And I know what he's doing.

He's like, "All right, you guys. Let's see if you guys flinch. Let's see what's going on here." Like, "Okay, this is what it's going to be like." Oh, dude. I You know, Justin, you should have went up to You should have went up to right there. You're right next to him. Slap him in the butt. If Justin pooped his bury it real quick. Hey, and Noy Paul would have been like, "Nice. "Nice. "Nice. I like your style. You had you some banana leaves. Here, wipe. Let me wipe you.

Yeah, you would have taught me how to remote. remote. remote. Who else has done like when Ben Ben flexed on us? Ben did, too. Yeah. Let's go grab some bales of hay. Yeah, dude. We show up. We used to help the work of chores in the snow. Has anybody else done that? Has anybody else has anyone else gave us like weird We've had weird hand We've had the aggressive handshakes. aggressive handshakes. aggressive handshakes. Well, I mean, Marbell shrug tried to, you know. you know. you know.

Yeah. But then there's the insecure flexes which was that was or the uh Aubrey Marcus Aubrey with the handshake miss wasn't just once dude. It was like three times and it like and I wasn't like miss hands miss hands miss hands and I even like waited you know like the second time cuz I was like maybe I'm coming in too hot or something and it just wasn't working and still like we couldn't we just couldn't. Did he like hit the back of his handy? How did he do that?

I've never missed like that. forearm and I'm like, "Dude, are we going to do the bro?" You know, the one where you just grab like forearms. forearms. forearms. Lewis House had the uh he hugged me and rubbed my chest. Oh, yeah. He hugged me in a little circle. circle. circle. Put his arm around put his arm. The first time we ever met, we walked in his his apartment. his apartment. his apartment. Vic Vick's vapor rub. Yeah. The first time we ever met, we walked in his apartment and he put his arm around my my low back and then rub rub my chest.

That's a little weird, dude. That's a little weird, bro. Playing a little gay chicken there. And then uh who's our our good buddy? Uh you first. You first. Oh my god. My the uh uh UFC fighter. Oh, Kyle Kingsbury. Yeah, Kyle. Yeah, Kyle. Yeah, Kyle. Oh, that's too far, dude. Kyle, Kyle, Kyle, I I would never be That's too far. Kyle did a low back one on me. He did a little rush. Little He did a little rush. Little rub rub rub walking around walking around walking around cuz he could never scared like that before.

before. before. Yeah. Justin and I couldn't stop him. We'd have to call the cops. We were getting hyped up. We're like, "Yeah, "Yeah, "Yeah, our boy's in trouble. We're in trouble." If he goes after Adam, any other any other weird encounters or like first We had a couple where who was it that we had? What's the dude? He's kind of a big guy. We interviewed him and he he had a personality on the podcast that Oh, Ellie. Oh, Ellie. Oh, Ellie. Yeah, dude. It was weird.

Like suddenly he's like, he's like, he's like, "I am this guy and I will talk this." We're like, "Whoa, dude. That's not delivery. What's happening right now?" Yeah, we were turned off by that right away. That's what we we never hit it off. We never communicated after that. Rarely there's it's rare that we we meet somebody and then we just like that'll be last. be last. be last. There's so many weirdos, dude. People don't understand that, you know? They just see them in their videos. Remember, hey, remember the first time I took uh we went I took us to uh I had the the suite and we went to uh the concert after we interviewed Aaron Alexander and remember he took his shoes off in the suite and he started doing stretches stretches stretches doing like monkey walks.

Yeah. We got this suite out there, right? There's like executives and people in there and whole boy just takes his shoes off and he's got starts doing like he's a nice guy. Oh, no. I love it. I really like the guy, but he's so out there. But he's he definitely got that. There's no like this is like all due respect, it's no offense, but that hippie smell, you know what I mean? He's a non deodorant guy. deodorant guy. deodorant guy. Yeah. You know what I mean?

It's like, oh, there's a little earthy earthy. I remember he was the first time he came to he was like climbing on all the all the he climbed up on top squat rack. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like why are you up there? there? there? That's like first time meeting. So that's what I'm talking about. He's talking to us, but he decided Do you want an apple or something? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was like Ben at dinner. Bitter at dinner. Sit. dinner. Sit. dinner. Sit. Well, yeah. He sat perched like a vulture vulture vulture like not sitting in his chair, but standing and squatting in his chair and like leaning over with this massive blue blockers on.

He's got massive hands kind of leaning like this while he's talking to us. Remember he threw that sciency question at you, Adam? Right out the gates as soon as the podcast turned on. Yeah. As soon as it turned on, he looked at the the broiest looking one of us. He's like, "Oh, so Adam, what do you think about Remember what he said?" You know what? He was talking about Sarm. Sarm. Sarm. That's right. And of course, Adam looked at me. He's like, "I brought my S with me.

me. me. I brought Go ahead, S. I brought my own. You obviously don't have my own science, dude. So, we were just We were just at somewhere like that. Somebody I forget where we're at and somebody started to ask me something like, you know, I listen to the podcast. That's not me. That's a question." Well, it's like when I get really deep business questions, tell us we're going to interview S about your business and the analytics. I'm like, "Oh, stop right there. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

I want to interview Adam." interview Adam." interview Adam." Somebody was interviewing me. They sent me over the list of questions. Like, I'm not going to answer these. You got the wrong host. Katrina was like, "You could answer those." I'm like, "It doesn't matter. I could." It's like, "I have someone better for that." You know what I'm saying? It's like It's not a matter of if I could or not. I'm not That's not my forte. You know what I'm saying? Ask the science guy. That's tough. I got I got to share you guys a cool story about So you guys know how my niece uh Jessica's niece now has moved in.

She's now lived with us for a little while now. while now. while now. She's going to school up here. So such a great I love uh I love seeing uh when people are growthminded and all that stuff. So she's a big soda drinker. Big soda drinker like a lot of kids. Uh Jessica grew up like this. Just in fact my wife will tell you she didn't drink water till she was like 21. That's all she drank was soda. So she loved Dr. Pepper and drank it all the time.

Well, she started working out. I started training her with my daughter. They're getting into working out. They're getting into trying to get strong. I'm not pushing it. We're not trying to push it. it. it. And I came home the other day and she's like, "I'm so mad." I'm like, "What's going on?" She's like, "Did you know Dr. Pepper has this many grams of sugar in it?" Like, "Yeah, yeah, I kind of did." She's like, "That's a lot. I'm not drinking those anymore." So, she cut out her Dr.

Pepper. So, which she's which is a great I mean for a kid this is a big deal for her. No, it's hard to do. And she's replaced it with lollipop. Oh, bro. That that's I I love that we work we're working with working with working with cuz she likes soda. She likes soda. I I I She likes the taste. Anyone Anyone that's been listening long enough knows that I've always talked about my soda addiction and my sugar addiction. You grew up like that? Yes. Grew up like that 100%.

And and even as a young adult, it's been it's in and out of my life all the time. And lollipop has always been something that I keep around the house that it's like and just like anything else. We talk about I talk about this with caffeine, with marijuana, all these different things that I will notice like, okay, I'm starting to drink a lot of these diet sodas. Like lollipop is like the go-to move that I feel like I still get that mouth feel. It tastes still sweet.

It tastes good, but so much better for you. you. you. It's like almost no sugar. Yeah. Like super low carb. And I think they have Don't they And maybe you can look this up. Do they have a Dr. Pepper flavor? I think they do have what they call I know they have a I know they have like a like a root beer one. I know they have a cream soda one. I think they do have a I like their Shirley Temple. The Shirley Temple one's the new one new.

new. new. It's delicious. It's delicious. It's delicious. See if they have Do you know if they have one? have one? have one? Yeah, they call it Dr. Goodwin. See, See, See, they got a Dr. Dr. Pepper one. So that's cool. cool. cool. You'll have to get her using trying that one. one. one. By the way, she just got a job and it's the best. the best. the best. Did she get the front desk Did she get the front desk job job job at the gym? She did.

She did. She did. At the gym. Okay. So tell me that tell me you didn't tell me. Okay. Well, the last time we talked talked talked Oh, I told you about Yeah. You were getting ready for the interview. And so she's so great, right? Because she's one thing about her, she's she's very shy, shy, shy, but she's also very growthminded. And I keep I I always remind her how growth minded she is because I think it's important that you tell people, but especially kids, that you remind them of their strengths because, yeah, I remember what it was like to be a teenager and you could feel a little insecure.

insecure. insecure. And she is. She's very growth minded. Something's really difficult for her. She'll do it anyway. Still be challenged, but she chooses to do it. And so I I love telling her that, but she is very shy and she's also very soft-spoken. And I have a connection at UFC gym. You guys know my buddy Don uh runs the place. And the gym environment is just a great environment to be in, especially if you're if you're shy and you want to have you want to have to learn how to talk to people.

What took me out of my show, man. It's the best it's the best environment. It's like tons of people. There's music. It's a healthy environment. Energy. So, so we I got to tell you guys the the interview that I practiced with her because I don't know if I said this on the show. So, I sat down with her because she was going to get interviewed. I'm like, "All right, let's practice like when you when you know you do an interview." So, we practiced the handshake sitting down.

And so, I'm like, "So, uh so why do you want to work here?" And she's like, "Uh, I think it'll it'll it'll help me strengthen and help me work on my social skills." I'm like, "Okay, that's good, but I don't think you should share that. Let's not first. Don't tell them you need help when you don't open don't let's not open with that. with that. with that. But they she got the job. She loves When did she start? Where'd she start? She's starting uh I think tomorrow.

Oh, I'm excited. You have to keep us updated on the journey for Yeah, dude. I'm psyched. Oh, she's going to grow so much. You know what you just said that makes I I was just thinking about something. You just said something that I thought is interesting that is it has to be somewhat true if not really true. Um when you go to the gym, even if like you had a bad day and you've motivated yourself or you've told I'm going and you go Yeah. you had to switch your mindset to do that like you you know what I today sucks I don't feel good I had a bad day at work I'm going to the gym so you've already reframe or otherwise you you chalk it up be f the day and you stay home so anybody who's in the gym has naturally kind of this positive frame that doesn't mean it's impossible to run into an [ __ ] or run into somebody somebody somebody it's the best environment but think about that where where else can you get a collection of potentially hundred or hundreds of people in one place place place where they're to become better, to grow, right?

And so that that there's a there's a very high likelihood that most of them are in a really good mindset, right? Yep. right? Yep. right? Yep. Like that's like that's a place where you if you're having that bad of a day, you just don't go. That's right. You don't go to the gym. Like it's like it's a bad day, right? So you you go to the gym, most people go and even if you were having a bad day and you go to the gym, you work through it.

You that means you you made the mental decision that I'm not going to let this day get me. I'm going to go still do this thing. So you're already in a in a better better better Totally. And not only that, listen, we're we're all we sometimes are a little bit in a bubble because we've all worked in gyms most of our lives or that environment. You guys remember what it's like to work in a non- gym, like a regular work environment. It's hard to remember. It's depressing.

Yeah, it's depressing, dude. Like, you're surrounded by people who are working. Most of them are not really passionate. Most people that work in a gym are passionate about fitness. So, there's that. Then you got the members coming in. They're all choosing to go there to better themselves. You got music in the background. It's uplifting. most jobs when I worked in the bank cuz I did uh I was a premier banker for a little bit for Bank of America, man. It's depressing. Yeah. Nobody wants to be here.

Everybody's coming in. Where else could you get that? Where else could you get that high of a percentage of people that have to be in a good mood and and even if they were in a bad mood, they've already at least shifted their frame of mind to be in a good mood to get into getting in their workout. Where else? I don't know. Hm. A theme park. I mean, maybe. I know. Like I'm serious. Unless you got the people coming at your kids mascots. Yeah. Yeah, dude.

Yeah, dude. Yeah, dude. I mean, maybe that's why Disneyland's so great. I mean, like although although sometimes you get you could see on parents faces like I just $700. $700. $700. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So tired my kids. Yeah. A lot a lot of times that could be selfless, right? You're there because of your kid. You don't want to go. And like how many how many husbands or whatever wives have been like I don't want to go. But But But it's a great dude. Listen, I I I can't think I'm really trying to think of another job setting or a setting where a 100 plus people would be in one place and you could count on a large percentage if not all are in a positive mindset.

That's kind of that's kind of crazy. crazy. crazy. I would say volunteer jobs like when you're volunteering, everybody's there because because because that's a really good guess, right? Like if you were if you're rescue animal place or something like that, everybody's there. everybody's there. everybody's there. You're going to be around people who are there cuz they really, you know, have Oh, yeah. or like you're going you're down Mexico building houses or something like that like on a mission a mission trip or something like really that's like that that that is maybe Yep.

Yep. Yep. the only thing that would probably rival that cuz that's probably even more powerful because it's selfless. You're there and you're you know that and you're not even getting paid, right? You know you're doing [ __ ] you know, like and but you're doing it for somebody else. Like you have to have a really great mindset. That's probably the only thing that would rival it. Actually, I can't think of anything Listen, I tell I was telling my daughter this cuz my daughter's not old enough to work in the gym.

And I'm like, this is the best first job you could get. Go work in the kids club, work the front desk. If you want to be a trainer later, that's really cool. Uh, but it's a great environment. It's not perfect. Every environment is going to have its whatever. whatever. whatever. Sure, you can have a bad boss, too. But you're going to work. What are you going to work? A retail store at the mall. You restaurants are cool, but restaurants can be a little I worked in restaurants.

They could also be a little whatever. whatever. whatever. I think everybody should work at a restaurant. It builds charact. It does. Just like I think everybody should have a little bit of entrepreneurial knowledge. Well, mainly to like start a business and what that entails. So, it would give you a lot better perspective and more balanced. Totally. Yeah. Go sell Go sell membership at the gym. Watch what happens to your your people skills. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. From our place is cookware that's forever chemical free. A lot of cookware, especially the nonstick cookware, has chemicals in there and they call them forever chemicals for a reason.

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Try it out. It's the best cookware you'll ever use, and you're not going to expose yourself to all those crazy chemicals. crazy chemicals. crazy chemicals. Our first caller is Bert from Florida. What's up, Bert? How you doing, man? What's happening? What's happening? What's happening? How's it going, man? How you guys doing? Good. Good, man. Good. How can we help you? Good. So, um, I'm just going to go off the script here cuz it's a little surreal being on on the air with you guys after listening to so many episodes.

So, uh, I've been listening to you guys for about a year. Uh, one of my daughter's uh, uh, friends dads actually recommended you guys. So, I started listening since then and and since that episode, I've gone back way back and listening to a bunch of stuff and and it's all been good. And I wanted to start uh by thanking you guys for all the free workout uh family and specifically the parenting advice that you guys give. Uh just Lisa being a good human, man. And it's great information and there's not enough of that right now in the world, you know.

It feels like I'm talking to my gym buddies except you guys are a little smarter than they were, but you know, same kind of deal, you know. So, I appreciate that. Thanks, bro. Barely. Yeah. So, I'll go on to my questions now. It's basically two questions. Um, I'm 49 years old and I'll be 50 in March of this year. I'm married and I have a four and a six-year-old, a four-year-old son and a six-year-old daughter. I usually work out at home. I have a pretty pretty full uh good home gym.

And also, I have a gym at work that I use. Uh, I've been weightlifting since I was about 15 years old. Uh, that summer I bought a bus pass and I'd ride to the gym and meet my dad there during his lunch break and work out. So, out. So, out. So, that's cool. that's cool. that's cool. It's been it's been quite a while. So since then, my training's been on and off, but like 99.9% on. Very rarely take any time off. So over the years, I've struggled with what I feels like gaining muscle.

Um I'm sure it's probably due to my conservative approach, not wanting to gain too much body fat. So I pretty much track every single thing that I eat. And um I use an app to track that. I'm about I am at about 100 2500 calories right now. I weigh 153 lbs. Um, I consume about 165 grams of protein and I'm I'm currently doing a reverse diet. Um, the app I use is a carbon app, the the Lane Norton app, and they give me recommendations on the macros, and I it feels to me like sometimes they're too small, you know, like the the the recommendations are are very small amount of calories.

So, I'm not sure if I should be trying to consume more calories or stay on the reverse longer. So that's that's my question as far as the diet stuff. And then I have a question as far as the training. So should I you guys give me Yeah, let me ask you some questions where we're at right now. Uh give give me an idea of like do you have any idea how many steps you take in the day? Like how active you are during the day? I I don't usually track my steps, but I'm I'm pretty I'm like a robot, man.

I'm consistent with everything that I do. Like my daily routine, you know, my diet, my training, everything is is very consistent. And I've never tracked my steps. So that's maybe something that I should do. should do. should do. Well, I mean I give me an idea of what you do. What do you do for work? Like do you have a job that's a desk job or do you move around a lot? Like what's your what's your day look like? I work I work for the fire department, but I'm I'm in an administrative position in health and safety.

So I pretty much have a desk job. Okay. So it's not you know my my uh my daily steps for work other than when I work out isn't isn't much more than than you know the ordinary. Okay. That that helps cuz if you I I was going to say your calories are probably really low if you have an active job and you move around a lot. But if you're pretty sedentary at work and your only real activity is your lifting, then I don't think you're like way under.

But I pro we probably definitely could boost calories though if you're training pretty consistently and you have a clean diet. Uh my first reaction is is to go higher in the calories. Yeah. What you're currently doing is going to keep you lean and fit. Uh, but if you want to gain I I mean I would immediately have you go up 500 calories. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Right out the gates to go up 500. I don't even think you'd see I don't think you'd see massive change in the scale even with 500.

You just start to see some strain gains uh with a 500 uh calorie increase. So, and and you've been at how long you been at 2500? Uh I think it was like June or July. I'd have to look into the app, but it's been you know it'll be like 25 uh 2556. It'll go up very I mean 30 maybe 50 calories, calories, calories, you know, that's what the increases usually are. usually are. usually are. Where did you start? What was it at when you you you I'd have to look back I'd have to look back in the app and and see, but it it been I've been at it since about April last year.

year. year. Okay. Okay. Okay. So, like I said, the the the increases really haven't been much. Okay. Okay. Okay. So, were you like So, back back in April when you when you first started the app, were you like around 2,000 calories or something? Is that kind of where you used to eat back in the days? That's that's what I'm wondering. Yeah, I think it was right Yeah, I think it was right around there. I mean, again, I have the exact numbers. I keep workout logs. I'm like, you know, OCD on some of that stuff.

Maybe a little too much. I'm pretty confident if you went up 500 calories, you'd be happy. I agree. I agree. I agree. Yeah. And you you look pretty lean. What's your body fat percentage at? So, I haven't done like a DEXA, but or or any of the body fat tests. We have an inbody thing here at work, but I didn't do it on an empty stomach first thing in the morning or whatever. Uh, I have I I would say, you know, my abs are visible, especially if I flex them, but normally they're they're they're there.

you know, you can see them. Um, Um, Um, you're probably like, you're you're around 10% around 10% around 10% or nine. Yeah, 500 calorie uh increase just right out the gates. Uh, you'd have a lot of positive uh gains from that right out the gate. I mean, you could do the slow, the slow, the slow, really, really slow um, you know, increase, increase, increase, which is very conservative. I, you know, Lane's got a great app. Uh, but a lot of it's geared towards um trying to get people to get their metabolism to kind of go up with minimal or no fat gain.

So, it's extremely conservative, right? right? right? But yeah, I mean, you're you're a dude. You've been lifting weights for a while. You you you're lean. Um, you otherwise healthy. A 500 calorie increase is not huge. And I think that would be like that would you would notice some really good strength gains right out the gate. Especially hearing a guy like like you who's telling me that you you consistently lift and you try I'm assuming you've been lifting that long. You probably got good technique. You probably lift good.

Like so the 500 calorie boost. Watch. I think I think in a week or two like you'll feel you'll feel stronger. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. You'll you'll you'll feel your big lifts go up right away and then you'll know like cuz your big lifts go up right away from a 500 calorie boost. Then what follows right behind that is more muscle. You you right behind that. So yeah, I agree. I think going up to 3,000 calories, I think you're going to see a big difference.

How do you like Are you following the 15 routine right now or are you on the upper lower split? What are you on right now? Well, so so right now like I I sent in the question and you guys obviously read it, but I sent in the question, you know, that it's around November last year, I started like my own modified kind of version of the 15. Yeah. Um that I just basically do like like a compound lift. like I'll do, you know, legs, uh, squats, deadlifts or something then paired like with triceps or biceps.

Sure. And uh I've been doing it and I and like I I wrote in the email I said my 20 30 and 40year-old self wish I would have known this low volume approach because it's like I'm either maintaining or seeing improvements like you guys always preach you know and it's it's it was so hard for me to pivot from doing five six seven days a week like I've done for so many years to do so much less volume and seeing you know as good if not potentially better results.

Yeah. So that that's the part of the other part of the question was as far as the training, you know, what what should I be looking at doing as far as that as well? I mean, it's not I like what you're doing. I mean, we could we could send you if you want another program to try out, we can send it to you, but I I if if that's your approach, that's a good approach. Yeah. I mean, typically if you go in a calorie, if you start to bump calories, this is when you would want to bump volume, but I would rather you uh mess with one variable at a time instead of both at the same time.

So, I would just go up 500 calories, keep doing what you're doing. You're going to see great gains. I mean, his volume's naturally going to go up because he get stronger, you know, load more with intensity. So, I I like exactly what you're doing and just pay attention to those big lifts. My prediction is within a week or two you see your big lifts go up. You'll go up and you you're going to go up in your big lifts. Keep stacking. Where what are your lifts at right now?

So like let's like what are you doing with your squats and your deadlifts? Like give me an idea of of your strength. strength. strength. So So with that for you know overall my squats and my deadlifts really haven't been as much as I want them to be. And that's that was I know that that um Adam throws in there the the the the value of doing that symmetry, you know, at least once a year. I've had this nagging right hip thing on and off for for years.

So, you know, I I I I don't do regular squat cuz I always noticed I had like a right kind of hip shift and I've gone to physical therapists, different people, they haven't helped me. The zer squat, I've been able to do that and and I can get up to like 185 lbs almost on that for a few reps, you know. So that's the kind of the workar around I've done and that hasn't bothered my hip as much. Um you know deadlift the I I'm not doing deadlifts this go on in November I was and I was up to like 275 uh deadlift you know um like this morning I worked out I was doing incin dumbbells with 50s you know a few sets of 15 reps.

So you know that that's kind of where I'm at with with your strength's going to blow up. Yeah, your strength will go up. Do you uh do you tend to lean more towards like the higher 10 to 15 rep range or do you tend to lean more towards like the low rep like five rep range? What's more you? you? you? Well, again lately what I've been doing and since I was doing that upper body lower body split, I vary it. I'll do a few weeks, you know, 15 12 to 15 reps and then I'll drop down to like six to eight.

Okay? eight. Okay? eight. Okay? You know, just to kind of switch it up. But at the end of the day, I'm a creature of structure and habit, you know. So that's why I I wanted your input on on what program to follow because I've kind of thrown this together and I think it's worked okay. But I really like the fact of of having that program to follow the structure for the the guidance, you know, to to kind of of of give me an end point. Yeah.

So So guy like you who's who's got a good feel for all this stuff because you've been doing it for so long, a good idea would be go up 500 calories, stay what you're doing for the next four weeks. You'll see some good strength gains. go up another 200 calories after that and then go into map symmetry because symmetry has got a little more volume and then follow symmetry. So you'll be at 3,000 calories for four weeks. Then you'll be at 3,200 calories uh following all the way through map symmetry.

symmetry. symmetry. And by the end of that I I would I would be I I would expect probably a 7 to 8 lb gain in lean body mass. Maybe five maybe five to seven pounds of lean body mass and maybe a couple pounds of body fat. But but overall your body fat percentage will stay great because the lean body mass went up. You'll look better. You'll feel better. And I'm willing to bet all your big lifts you're talking you talked to us about you'll see up.

Oh yeah. You're going to see like a 20 30 pound increase on some of those lifts. lifts. lifts. Okay. Okay. Okay. All right. So then the 500 and then about a month after about a month do another 200. Okay. And when you when you switch to symmetry Yeah. So stick to what you're doing. Just go to 3,000 calories. After a month then go to uh map. If you don't have map symmetry we'll send it to you. then go to map symmetry followed out to then go to map symmetry followed out how it's laid out the entire program with another 200 calories and uh I'm with S I think and what's cool is the way map symmetry ends you do all unilateral work the front half the last c the last month of symmetry is a like 5x5 traditional training so you really get to see your strength expressed at the end yeah so this the unilateral work will be great for you and then you'll go right into the then you'll go into the 5x5 the final month so that that's a good layout for you for you for you awesome and thank you.

Thank you very much. I appreciate it. I'd love to hear back from you, Bert. I I really I think I want to hear where it happens. happens. happens. Yeah, I'll keep you guys in the loop. And and one last thing, I know I know we're limited on time, but I wanted to share this with you guys. I've been in the fire department now for about 25 years. Before I I came into the fire department, I was actually a school teacher. So, you know, in my heart is education.

I've been a training guy here for years with a lot of different things we've done within the department. But, you know, listening to you guys and and the way that you guys have uh the the the training aspect of how you guys talk about helping people and everything that that really from listening to you guys has motivated me for my my career after this career, this career, this career, which I'm going to be focusing on on training people. I've always kind of helped people out here and there cuz they see me and they're like, "Oh, Bert, you know, you're the fitness guy.

you work out and all this, but it's really given me an opportunity to have uh uh something after this. You know, after first responders many times leave their careers, they don't have an identity or or something to identify with to again continue to help people. And I think watching and and learning from you guys, you guys really have motivated me. That that that is my calling, you know, and that's something that I'm going to follow up on the next, you know, 3 to 5 years when I move on from the fire service.

My kids are still going to be young, you know, but I think it'll be something that I'll be able to do on my own terms. I won't have to chase money. I won't have to chase anything. It'll be for my own, you know, fulfillment and enjoyment of helping others. But I wanted to thank you guys for that as well cuz just, you know, the way that you guys talk about, you know, the training aspect and helping people and, you know, there's a lot of value in that and I really do appreciate that.

That's something personal to me that I wanted to thank you guys for as well. Thank you, man. Awesome. Great. Awesome. Great. Awesome. Great. Stay in touch. Yeah, stay in touch with us. us. us. Absolutely, man. Thank you so much. Easy. Easy. Easy. Take care. Take care. Take care. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah. I mean, easy easy calorie bump. Yeah. Uh, you made a good point about Lane's thing. I just want to address that because I I think we all have a lot of respect for Lane. I think Lane's awesome.

I think his app is probably awesome. I think it's geared on the conservative side because the average person that he's probably putting on a reverse diet on there is somebody who is um like low low calorie, tried to lose weight their whole life. like uh he's like a hard gainer type of person. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like a hard gainer person uh you can throw a much bigger chunk of calories at that person and their body will respond. And there's also a couple that could like you know when I'm dealing with somebody somebody somebody where cuz I understand the the conservative approach.

I totally get it. But when I'm dealing with somebody who's afraid afraid afraid of gaining weight and so afraid of all this stuff and I give them calorie bumps that are like 56 calories, 37 calories, 72 calories, it's uh we're they're staying in this micromanaged space of of this kind of like fear and attachment to their macros which I get that but just you know after coaching people for so long it's like I want to get you out of that too and I think we're going to be okay bumping 150 calories and I I would rather not be so so just absolutely specific with these tiny little bumps that just makes you feel even more like you're controlling every little step, you know?

So, but I get it. I totally get it. get it. get it. Our next caller is Latasha from Tennessee. Tennessee. Tennessee. Hi, Latasha. Good morning. Hey, everybody. Um, thank you very much for taking my call. I never expected to be chosen. I felt like I'd won a prize when I saw the email that you guys had picked me. picked me. picked me. Oh, thank you. Um, so for some background, um, I've always been one that enjoyed exercise, but I didn't really take it very seriously until after my son was born.

I had him at 32. I'm 49 now. Um, I was consistent with exercising at home with like workout videos, but I know now that that was mostly just doing cardio. it never occurred to me to to pick up weights and do the progressive overload stuff that I know now. Um, as far as my diet, my whole life, it's really just been all over the place. Um, I would eat too low of calories and then inevitably just completely throw it out and abandon it and just eat whatever I wanted to.

And then December of 2024, I found that I was heavier than I have ever been in my whole life. And I was just at a loss because you try to look online and get some answers and it's all conflicting and you just don't know what to do. So, um, an ad came across my Facebook page for, um, online trainer company and I decided to take a a chance on them and I don't know if I can say the name of them on, you know, on here with you guys, but the co-founder has a podcast also and she has had S on as a guest before.

Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. So, um, that was a really good experience. I committed to a year with them and I learned a lot. Um, but it was a big investment for me financially. So, I knew I was only going to be able to do a year. And so, I did everything they told me to do. I was very disciplined, consistent. I wanted to learn as much as I could so that when my year was over, I would feel like I could go it on my own.

And so one of the things that I did to try to make sure I felt comfortable doing it myself was I got my um personal training certificate training certificate training certificate um through NASM and um researching how to do that is how I found Mind Pump. So I've been listening to you guys since I found that first episode. So that's been about a year ago. Um, and and and my question when I originally sent it in was my year was about to be over with Lindsay with my trainer and I didn't know I knew I wanted to do a max program, but I didn't know what I should do.

So, I went with the super bundle because I knew saw that that would get me through a whole year. And um, so I went ahead and purchased that. And then I saw the Black Friday sale that you guys were having back in November and I bought a whole bunch of stuff. stuff. stuff. So you're set. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, I think so. Um I want to do them all myself, but my thinking was to if I ever got to a point where I'm training other people, those would be good to have.

Perfect. Yeah, smart. Good idea. So I just I guess I just want to know that I'm on the right track and I'm doing things in proper sequence. I'm um I'm about to start phase two of anabolic and then of course my plan was to do performance after that but then I started thinking about I do have some imbalances and I know I'm weaker on my left side. So then I thought maybe I should do symmetry instead or do you think it'd still be okay to do performance?

performance? performance? Well, let's Okay, so let's back up for a second. You're doing a great job, Natasha. And and I'm reading your email and it looks like you reverse dieted from uh 1,400 to 2,000 calories and in the process lost 10 pounds. Yes. Yes. Yes. Great job. Great job. Great job. Killer. Awesome. Killer. Awesome. Killer. Awesome. Really good job. And how how is that all going now? Where where are you at? Are you still tracking? Are you moving out of that phase? What's going on? I am still tracking because I'm afraid anytime I try to do it on my own and just track protein, I go way over on fat.

I love peanut butter and cheese and if I'm not watching the fat, I'll get way off. So, I do I do track it, but uh right now I'm I stay between 2100 and 2200 calories. 2200 calories. 2200 calories. Okay. Okay. Okay. Um I'm getting 184 gram of protein, 200 carbs, and 75 fat right now. You're doing great. I'm doing great. You're doing great. So, that's not too much for protein. No, you're fine. You're in a great place. So here's the and then here is the next phase for you with nutrition because you're in this great place.

The next phase so it's another big hurdle. Okay. So like the initial hurdle people tend to go through is they start tracking and then the next hurdle is increasing my calories. The fear of oh my god am I gaining all this body fat? So that's a hurdle. Now you're through that and now you're in this kind of like I track everything state. The next big hurdle is going to be moving out of that. So you kind of have this relaxed attitude around diet and don't feel like you have to count everything.

It's a big hurdle, but that's the next one for you. So that's what you get to look forward to. But just like the previous ones, it's going to feel scary and there's going to be a little bit of back and forth, okay? But I don't want you to be like worry about it. Don't fear it. Uh it's coming and when you get there, it's going to be great because you're not going to need you're not going to feel like you need to track everything. You'll have tracking in your back pocket for those times when you want to kind of dip in and out of it, see where things are at, but you're not going to have to live there.

As far as the programming is concerned, before you started MAPS anabolic, what was your strength training like? Were you doing traditional strength training or was it the the videos and stuff that you talked about, you know, that you started? Okay. Lindsay Lindsay had me on um she wanted to keep with the same schedule that I was working out and I was doing it five days a week. So she scheduled me something for for those five days that I was normally doing it anyway, not to disrupt my routine.

So she would have me lifting three days a week. Um upper body one day, lower body the next, and then a full body. full body. full body. Okay, good. Okay, good. Okay, good. And then she had a day of yoga and a day of just doing core. Oh, great. Oh, great. Oh, great. Nice. And how did you how do you feel with your uh with the traditional strength training lifts? Do you feel confident and solid or do you feel like it's still, you know, like I do I feel more confident and solid now.

Obviously, I've been doing it a year, but there were times that I had to research how to do the proper form and all of that because I didn't have her right there with me. Okay. Um, Okay. Um, Okay. Um, and then of course I've been looking at the um the mass programs and those videos and um I'm I'm doing a a barbell back squat of 120 lbs right now. Wow. Wow. Wow. Great. That's great. And I weigh 116. So I figured that's awesome. And you feel you feel confident and solid in it, stable.

Everything feels good. Yes. But I was going to ask I I've been hearing you guys talk about more about like getting a more range of motion with the the back squat and getting all the way down. way down. way down. And if I don't have any weight, I can get all the way down. So I don't think I have any mobility issues with that. But at that weight, I can't get all the way. Yeah. Lower the weight. Yeah. So I'm going to give you some advice with this.

So it's a slow so increasing range of motion. Uh you want to respect it. This is where injury happens when people push it too fast and too far. And so you would cut the weight way down. So if you're squatting 120, go down to 60 and and go down very controlled exercise, exercise, exercise, very tight. And go down like a few inches lower than you're used to. Not all the way down, like a few inches. Pause at the bottom. Stay tight. Come up and just really make the weight uh feel hard through control and stability.

That's how you increase range of motion. What you don't want to do is just push yourself to go all the way down uh with a heavy weight because you don't have the stability yet and that that's where injury happens. So, you would literally go 50%. It's like a big cut in weight. Slow way down. Even pause at the bottom and just make sure you're connected to every every bit of that rep. Latasha, are you are you in our private forum yet? yet? yet? Um I'm in on the school forum.

Okay. I'm going to have Okay. I'm going to have Doug put you in the Mind Pump private forum. One of the one of my favorite things that people do in there is you got a bunch of coaches, trainers, a lot of our our people that are in there and uh they'll they'll share videos of their squat, their deadlift, uh to get feedback. And so we're all on there, too. And so if you're working on a movement like that and you're trying to and just do prop your phone up, get a video of yourself squatting or deadlifting deadlifting deadlifting and and you'll get I mean, we got Dr.

Brink in there. We've got in brilliant minds that can look at the movement and give you great cues or say great job, you're looking perfect or whatever. The forum's great for that. And so I'm going to get you in there so you can use that for that reason. Do you have a prime pro? I do. I do. I do. Good. So, so, so for a trainer especially, very valuable, but go through that and you mentioned you notice some imbalance uh differences between right and left, which is very common.

go in there, pick a couple movements for the areas that you think you might need help, whether it's hip or ankle or shoulder, whatever, and just practice those movements and stay connected to throughout the the entire way uh that you're doing the movement. That'll help a lot with that. I think uh performance is great. If you want to try scaling back and working on unilateral stuff, if you don't have maps 15 symmetry, I'll send that to you. Uh it's Oh, good. So math 15 symmetry would be another great program to to move to because you're only a year into this.

Um and then after that you can jump right. I mean I like I like performance too though because it's going to address a lot of the mobility. It's in there. So they're both good. This is really just you being like do I do I want to drop the scale scale the volume? Any of those three you can't go wrong. Map 15 uh symmetry symmetry symmetry or performance or any of those three are great choices after anabolic and and and where you're at right now. Okay. So, um, so getting my range of motion better with my squat and lowering the weight.

Should I do that? Go ahead and start doing that now during anabolic. anabolic. anabolic. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then should I increase my calories from where they are? I'm at 2200. How do you feel? Um, Um, Um, I feel like it's kind of difficult to get that much protein in. And I know if I increase the calories, I'm going have to increase the protein as well. Um, no, no, you don't. You're good. I still get hungry. get hungry. I still get hungry. So, if you're hungry, your protein's fine.

Your protein is fine. You can you can get it from carbs or fat. Either one. In fact, you you mentioned something that makes me think that it might be fat that you need. Yeah. That's where you tend to go when you're when you're eating what you you know, where you're kind of eating and following. Yes. Okay. So, why don't you bump your calories with some fats? Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah, that sounds great. Just give you the green light. Yeah, you can go up 100 calories of fats.

Go ahead. ahead. ahead. Okay. Um, when I finish anabolic, I was thinking of doing just like a mini cut, like decrease the calories for maybe three weeks and then go into maintenance for one week during whether I'm doing symmetry or performance. Yep. Yep. Yep. That'd be good. Perfect. Yeah, perfectly fine. This is a great place for you, Latasha, because and I want you to feel it out and really take note of what you observe and how you feel. This is going to make you a good trainer.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because your clients are going to feel all this stuff as well. And once you experience it, you you'll be able to communicate it so much better. There's a lot of other trainers in the the private forum, too. So, good good resource for you to communicate with a lot of other coaches and trainers that are early in their career, been doing it for a long time. You got all of it in there. there. there. Yeah, I' I've been enjoying the school forum. forum. forum.

Good. Good. Good. I've asked a few questions on there and that um elevator pitch exercise. exercise. exercise. That's a lot. That's going to take me a long time to get through all those, but I'm going to try. That's great. You're doing great. doing great. doing great. Yeah, this is great. This is a great I'm so glad you called in. This was great. Um Um Um um one more question if that's okay. Um yeah, yeah, yeah, could I substitute in anabolic? Could I substitute the Z press for the shoulder press?

I've heard Adam talk about it. Absolutely. Have you tried it yet? That'd be okay, too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I haven't tried it yet. I watched a video how to do it. Yeah. Oh, you got to go real light. So, but yeah, absolutely. Great. Great substitution. No problem. I prefer that. I prefer you to do that. Yeah, I love that. All right. Um I think that's all I had. Great question. Great question. Great question. Just wanted to make sure I was had my programming right and I was doing that and and about the the macros and the good job doing a great job.

Yeah, you're totally on track. Yep. Stay in touch with us. Okay. All right. Thanks for making yourself so accessible to all. Thank Thank you. Keep it up, Latasha. Okay. Thanks. Okay. Thanks. Okay. Thanks. Bye. Bye. You know what's encouraging uh for for for me personally when uh people like her call in uh is uh good trainers are getting into the space. the space. the space. She's got the right uh you know motives. Her character sounds good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh her her logic and reasoning through all this is like on point.

Yeah. She's humble. It's going to be a great She'll be a great coach. She'll be able to help a lot of people. Makes me feel good. feel good. feel good. Now her experience that she's going through uh will be able to translate really well to coaching people. Totally. Our next caller is Alexandra from New York. Alexandra, how are you? Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. call. call. Yeah, how are you? How can we help you? Uh, good. So, my name is Alexandra. I'm 30 years old.

I'm a special education teacher. I played sports my whole life, mostly basketball through high school. And then in college, I was a division one javelin thrower. And that is where I learned about strength. So, I really fell in love with strength. And I started powerlifting after that for about 5 years. While I've achieved a lot athletically, everything was kind of against the backdrop of severe binge eating, restricting, and overex exercising. I took a break from powerlifting, just continuing to lift for aesthetics. But currently, I started running Matt's powerlift because I find that working on strength takes my focus off of my appearance and is better for my mental health.

Regarding fitness, however, I still really struggle with badly binge eating, restricting, and overex exercising. Even though I eat mostly whole foods and keep nothing processed in my apartment, I find myself spiraling and binging on random healthy foods like rice cakes and oatmeal. I've gained a lot of weight over the years from this binge restrict cycle. And I just so badly want to feel normal around food and enjoy a meal out with my family or my boyfriend without obsessing over calories and macros. I have a master's degree in nutrition and I've worked with countless coaches, therapists, and dietitians.

But this is something I can't seem to move past as much as I know like the logic and the science behind it. It's really frustrating because I put so many hours into training and so much energy into my diet and trying to figure this out, but I feel like I have nothing to show for it. I currently run 15 to 20 miles per week. I lift four times a week with Maps with Maps Powerlift. And I do Pelaton cycling classes on my days that I don't run.

I eat 14 to,600 calories a day, but my binging negates any progress that I ever make, and I always feel like I'm starting over. Your show has helped me so much over the years, but I still really struggle with balance, and I would appreciate any advice you can give me on this. So, there's Yeah, there's Yeah, there's Yeah, thanks for calling in. Y Y Y uh I can tell right now you're really excessively hard on yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the just by the way you're talking about it um that how hard you are on yourself that shame is contributing uh to this whole cycle and process.

So number one you got to give yourself a little bit of grace. You're doing great. Uh you said you binge on healthy foods. Uh, and then you said, um, you know, uh, essentially what I hear from you, um, is how disappointed you are in yourself and you don't reflect fitness. And I, first of all, you do reflect fitness. I could tell just by looking at your shoulders. I think anybody who knows you would probably say that. And I don't think you would treat uh a friend or a family member or somebody that you were helping the same way you're treating yourself.

And so that's the root of this. The the root of this is uh is that that shame spiral. and we need to interrupt that. And it's not natural to interrupt it. What's natural for you is what you've always done. Okay? So, it's going to feel very awkward and weird to interrupt all of this. So, we got to start with Let's back up for a second. What does it feel like when you're binging? Very out of control. Okay. And Okay. And Okay. And sometimes it feels like this sounds weird to say, but it almost feels like a relief sometimes cuz like I'm not like tracking anything or weighing anything and I'm just like oh like I could breathe like and um I've definitely noticed that like that's something cuz I've been trying to pay more attention recently to like like how it feels and stuff and that's something I've noticed.

It feels like a relief but it also feels like very out of control and like I have to get it in now because I'm not going to get it later. Yeah. That's because because you needed the break because before the binge uh you were were were starving yourself starving yourself starving yourself and you were you were you were holding you were tyrannizing yourself. Yes. Yes. Yes. So it's like you live uh under the roof of a parent that's just constantly criticizing you, constantly controlling you you you with shame and criticism and control.

And then you just can't handle anymore. and you escape just to get a break for a day so you can come back to that uh that household that criticizes you. And part of the fear is that if you don't uh criticize yourself and control yourself that you're going to live in that escape. escape. escape. So if I don't control this all the time, then that binge is going to be how I'm going to be all the time. But that's a lie. That's actually a lie. That's not true.

That's actually a lie. uh the binge and the escape and the relief that you feel is coming from the overcontrol and criticism and hate uh that you're that you're you're giving to yourself. It's also coming from your body screaming at you that you need to feed me. me. me. On top of it, you with uh the amount of training, running, and cycling you're doing 1,600 calories is starving your body. Like you should be double that with that kind of activity. So, and so you're doing that for days on I don't know how many days in a row you get of 1,600 calories in training that way and your body is trying to tell you every day, we need a lot more fuel than this.

We need a lot more fuel than this. And then you finally break. And so part of what S is saying is true. So is also the part that you need to be fed way more than that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Way more than that. So you're not only are you wrestling with this this psychological thing that you're going back and forth and punishing yourself thing, but you're also wrestling with your body needs way more than that. That's like a double whammy. The the the answer is somewhere in the middle of this and you'll be okay, especially if you're a whole foods eater.

Like you're going to be all right. Do you do can you do you think is would it be too much to cut down your training and eat more? Would that be too big of a step? And you could be totally honest. I mean, I I worked with a coach and I did it before and I cut my running like in half and I I was so scared that I was going to like blow up because I've been doing that for so many years. Like I've been running so much for so many years.

But and like I didn't. But I think that adding food in addition to that would be like scary for me. And that's that's really what I feel like cuz I know I need to eat more. Like I know that the binging is like my body wanting more food. Yes. food. Yes. food. Yes. Especially because I'm binging on like rice cakes and oatmeal. Like I'm not even binging on like junk food anymore. It's more of just like whatever I can get. get. get. Um so I know that my body needs more food, but I feel so guilty when I do eat more food and then that will set off me into like a spiral.

Yeah. So, uh let's take one step. Let's take one step first. Uh and it is going to be scary. So it's going to suck. Uh but we do got to take a step. So it's going to be either eat more uh or it's going to be train less. and you can pick which one and the next step is now here's the thing I I I got to communicate to you. You're not going to think your way out of this because I think you know all the stuff and I think you did what the coach told you because you were like okay this is the right thing to do but it never moved from your head to your heart.

In other words, it never became like you felt this was the right thing. It was like I know this is the right thing but it still feels like I got to beat myself up. It still feels like I got to go back. which is why you probably went back to so much running uh and why you kind of whatever rebound it or whatever you know word you want to use. So you're not going to think your way out of this. So what we have to do is we have to change your your just the feeling around it.

You know we have to change your heart essentially which means you're going to have to interrupt some of these cycles and that's going to be really uncomfortable. So here's what that looks like. A lot of pausing, a lot of reflecting, a lot of journaling and it's going to and you're not going to want to in the middle of a binge or right before a binge. The last thing you're going to want to do is take out a piece of paper and write what you're feeling because all we want to do in that state of mind is stay totally uh out of mind.

We want to just let go because that's all we want. And so we have to interrupt that with journaling. And the journaling might look like uh I I just want to eat 15 rice cakes or I just want to go crazy on oatmeal. And then you just keep writing and keep writing. And then it may be like, I actually need to eat more. I think the reason why I feel this way is cuz I'm eating too little. And then keep writing and keep writing. I just want to go.

I just want to stop. I hate this. And then keep writing. And then stop. And then go do what you need to do. And then when you when you're done with it, come back. And you're going to write again. And what you're going to write is, I love you. I forgive you. This is hard. This is tough. I'm going to keep moving. And it's going to suck. It's going to feel super awkward. it's going to feel like I don't want to do this, but it's a ch it has you have to interrupt those behaviors and start that process.

And so it's got to be a conscious effort of making yourself feel awkward through this process. But uh I would start with personally I would prefer you to eat more first. But if you feel like that's too big of a step, cut down your exercise and then when you feel like I can take the next step, then take the next step. Th this is um I mean I would I would love for you to work with one of our coaches just because I feel like S and us are trying to cram all of this in in one call and this is not a one call conversation.

It's not a like like uh no matter how smart we are and all the answers that we can give you. you. you. This will take like six months to Yeah. This is it's it's it's hard and it will be hard and they'll be we can give you all the right answers. you can go start to apply them and then you're going to have a challenge, a plateau, a setback, a struggle and to not have, you know, the coach in your ear to go like, "Hey, you're doing a great job.

This is perfect. This is exactly what I expect." Um, that's the hard part, you know, like we can tell you all day long what you need to do. I feel like you know what you kind of need to do. It's kind of having somebody along that process through you. So, if you were open to uh, you know, going with a coach, I'd love one of my trainers to to work through this with you because I I know that it's not easy. That positive selft talk is so powerful.

If you can just start incorporating that somehow, whether journaling or saying it to yourself or, you know, really giving yourself that grace is going to move the needle for sure. sure. sure. Alexandra, it probably feels so weird to try to give yourself grace because you're afraid if you give yourself too much grace, then you're going to go off the deep ends and get obese. Yeah. Like I I am so scared that like once I stop tracking or once I stop like weighing myself that I'm just going to blow up.

That's right. And like I'm I also like I'm so used to being an athlete where like you just do more. Yeah. more. Yeah. more. Yeah. And I'm I'm also like 15 years removed from that. So I don't know why like I'm so stuck in that mindset, but I I can't seem to like break out of it. Yeah. Stop. Stop right there. You're doing it again. Yeah. You're giving you're you're beating yourself up a little bit. Super normal. Yep. This is almost everybody in the fitness industry.

Okay. Every trainer and fitness influencer knows exactly what you're talking about. Uh so, but I'm telling you right now, it's a lie. Y it's a lie that if you don't beat yourself up that that the other end of that is worse. You can't hate yourself into better health. That's what you're feeling right now. It feels like mental mental turmoil. Uh which is what what I hear from you. Right. And and so but it's a total lie that if I don't hate myself and I don't keep it my thumb on myself and I don't control myself, I'm going to go in this crazy other direction.

So I have to do that and then every once in a while interrupt that with like a freedom break like I can't handle this anymore. This pressure is too much. So now what a coach is going to do cuz giving yourself grace is so is going to be so it's alien. alien. alien. You're not going to want to do it is you're gonna outsource the grace. So, you're going to go to your coach and you're gonna say, and the more honest you are with the coach, the more effective they're going to be.

So, it's gonna be like, "Oh my god, I feel like an you got to be totally honest. Don't be try to be logical. Oh my god, I feel like such an idiot." Or, "I can't believe I'm doing this again." And the coach is going to give you grace and then accept it. And then that's going to teach you to do it for yourself. And again, I'm we're cramming this into a 10-minute 10-minute 10-minute conversation, but the the the process is going to be you're going to hit these roadblocks.

You're going to totally stumble. I promise you're going to stumble throughout the whole process, but little by little by little, it's going to start to change for you, and you're probably 6 months away from a radically different uh relationship with this kind of stuff. So, so that's kind of what it's going to look like. Uh, but I mean, Adam's right. Um, working with somebody through this process is going to be your best bet, for sure. Yeah. I mean, I've I've dealt with this for like 17 years at this point, so six months sounds like very fast.

Um, you know, it's like, okay, it's what's six more months. But, um, I'm also like a little jaded because I've worked with so many coaches and people that, you know, promised they were going to help and then they just threw meal plans at me and then the second I went off a meal plan by a crumb, I would spiral out. That's not what you need. That's not what you need. You don't need a macro coach. That's the wrong No, man. No. That's the opposite. That's not what you need.

That's the opposite of what you need. One, if you when we hang up, we can have one of our coaches call you. one of our trainers. trainers. trainers. Yeah, we know the perfect one. Yeah. Who's been coached and trained by us and we oversee all the programs. So, that's not what it looks like. You don't need macro counting. You don't need like this crazy structure. Uh follow this diet plan. That's not your solution. solution. solution. Yeah. No. I've tried every single macro amount and amount and amount and No, no, no.

Yeah. Yeah. It's I just need to like be okay with eating. And also too, like I always think about it too, like I've gained weight over the years, but for the most part my body has stayed within the same probably 10 pounds. But and that that's with binging. So if I would just eat more every day, like like like I probably wouldn't gain weight. So I like logically I know that you can't you can't it's got to get out of your head. You're not going to think you're out of it.

You have to feel it. You're just not feeling it. Well, this is this is the reason why I'm I'm pointing towards a coach is cuz it's this is not a you don't know and it's not a like mathematical equation that we can answer for you in one phone call and then you're like, "Oh, perfect. Now I can go and do it." It's that's not the answer. It's a it's a step-by-step process and it will be hard and there will be setbacks and there'll be moments in this process where you'll get frustrated.

You'll want to beat yourself up. The good coach will tell you, "No, you're doing great. This is perfect. This is right where I want you." Like that's that's what that it's a process and you and that's what you have to go through. It's not a it's not a mathematical formula you're missing. Here's why I think you're going to do great because you you went on a a a public podcast. You're talking about you're very honest. You're not holding anything back. Lots of courage. Yeah, dude. So that's like the by the way that's the biggest hardest step.

Yes. Yes. Yes. If if I can't get somebody to do what you're doing, there's no help. There's no hope. no hope. no hope. Uh but you're like coming out, you're talking about it. You're very honest about it. Uh, I think you're going to do perfectly fine. perfectly fine. perfectly fine. The other side of this is awesome. The other side of this is really cool. Yeah. It's going to feel relaxed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're going to like this. A lot way less effort, way less holding on and a healthier, fitter, stronger version of yourself.

Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And fuller. Get to eat more. Yeah. Yeah, that sounds nice. Yes. Yes. Well, when we hang up, we'll have we'll have one of our coaches call you and then uh look forward to seeing you. you. you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you guys so much. Thank you. Thanks for calling in. Bye. Bye. Bye. Poor kid. Poor kid. Poor kid. Yeah, I feel that. I know. Yeah. Yeah. No, there's there's nothing you say in this call that Listen, I'll use that. I'll use myself as an example.

I know everything about this stuff. Like I talk about it. This is what I do for a living. I've been doing this forever. It's hard for me to do it to myself. It is it is totally different. I can't think my way through it. It just doesn't work. You got to feel you got to learn how to feel differently, which is a very different much more difficult process. Yeah. the the middle for her is probably some I mean eat 1,600 and then she probably binges like crazy because her body's so hungry.

She could probably cruise around. cruise around. cruise around. She's got the mental and physical signals that are just going crazy. Oh yeah. I mean she could probably cruise around 23 2500 calories eating full balanced and half the training and see incredible results. That's right. Our next caller is Joe from Texas. Joe, what's happening? How you doing Joe? Hey, how's it going guys? Good dude. What's going on? Hey u first thanks for taking my questions. Uh hopefully be very helpful I'm sure. Um, I guess I'll just read the email.

It's the easiest thing people do, seems like. Uh, so I started with, uh, should I skip leg day? I know you always hear never skip leg day. Um, my question that is because I naturally have a lot of muscle mass in my lower body. Um, just kind of like family jeans, I guess. Um, no pun intended. Um, so background, I guess I've been a cop for 17 years. Uh, kind of worked out the whole time doing that. um started with a lot of CrossFit, finally came to my senses, moved away from that.

Um about seven or eight years ago, found out I had really low testosterone, so I started TRT. Um so that's definitely helped with the uh like muscle responsiveness to workouts. Um but unfortunately that also includes my my like quads and my glutes. So when I do squats and lower body stuff, like it's super responsive and just blows up. But I end up with uh to quote the like I guess the philosophers the Yingang twins cute face slim waist but a big behind. So got big quads um but like a 32 inch waist.

So if I buy pants or shorts that fit my waistline, they're super tight on my legs and my butt. But if I go up to say a 34 where they fit comfortably around my legs and my butt, then they're super baggy around my waistline. So just looking for some inside there. Yeah, dude. Good problem to have, bro. The reason why people say don't skip leg day is because they always skip leg day. Yeah, because they Well, because they have no legs and they have all upper body.

That's not your problem. Yeah, dude. I This is I think um I think everybody has a body part. Not everybody's lucky enough for it to be legs and butt. Uh but everybody has a body part that responds really well that you can get away with doing very minimal volume very and skipping it all the time. So, time. So, time. So, uh uh uh yeah, if as long as you're strong, I mean, you're strong, right? balance. It's not like your legs like you you were you've been training for a while.

You've trained your whole body for a while, right? while, right? while, right? Yeah. So, I guess just to throw some numbers at you, when I was tracking my my maxis, but I haven't done a while just to kind of prevent injury. Um, deadlift one rep was like 450, squat was like 350 like 350 like 350 and then bench is around 265, I think. I think. I think. Yeah. You can you can very easily, and I don't recommend this often, but you're trying to work on aesthetics.

I mean, you could literally train your legs every other week. Yeah, that's what exactly what I do. Once every two weeks, I train my legs. And that'll just that'll keep them healthy, keep them strong, fit. You're not going to get weak or anything like that. Yep. that. Yep. that. Yep. And you're just obviously uh you know, much more focused on the upper body to help balance out, just maintaining it. That's it. That's it. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, cool. Yeah, cuz I definitely don't want to lose any strength.

Like I don't have a problem with getting them stronger. I just seems like when I do anything to work them out to get them stronger, they immediately like just start start start bl Yeah. Well, there's not it's not like there's there's not an exercise that's going to get them stronger and not build them if you respond like that. Like that's just what it is is you're going to you're and it's again to you're going to you're and it's again it's not it's not a bad Sal's right like you if you train once every two weeks, you're not going to get weak.

You you'll you'll be fine. They'll stay healthy. You'll still they'll stay healthy. They'll be strong, you know, and and mix it up. Like uh it's squatting one time, another time it's walking lunges, other time it's deadlift deadlift deadlift or sled. or sled. or sled. Yeah. Sometimes it's a lateral Yeah. lateral drags. I mean, just mess with the different things you do for them every other week and they'll stay strong, mobile, fit, and then f use use that uh reduced volume there to put it in the areas that you want to develop.

Yep. Yep. Yep. Whether that be chest, shoulders, arms, back, whatever the other other things you want to really focus on. You can give it about a year and you'll see you'll see yourself start to balance out. out. out. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Awesome. I appreciate. You got it, man. Yeah. Thanks for calling in, bro. All right. All right. All right. Yeah. You got a good one. Take it easy. That's not common, but it's I mean, it's a Justin problem. the T-Rex body. Justin squats once every three months.

I mean, can you do you do you out of all seriousness, do you uh I do this with my arms, right? Cuz I I No, I trade volume. I'll go I'll go sometimes three weeks not even train my arms at all. And then, you know, you know, you know, Yeah. the advice you guys give, especially like alternating that too with like sled or more functional move. I really, it's a movement based. So, I try to maintain strength uh in my abilities more so than like trying to get leg development.

I don't need leg development. development. development. Right. Like I don't think I've ever really seen you like uh squat like three weeks in a row twice a week. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ever since like football days. Yeah. Like I don't think I ever see you like progressively overloading the squat. Like you're always doing something. something. something. I do that when my quads grow really fast. So I train by the volume I do for my quads way lower than the rest of my body because they just they just respond really well.

The the the thing is as long as you're strong and fit. So, here's when this becomes an issue. You're just not strong at all. You just started working out and you're like, I just want to skip this body part. No, no. Get it strong and fit because now you're going to create some He's deadlifting overunction. You're dead over 400 lb. You're squatting over 300 lb. You're fine. That's That's plenty good strength. And if you also say that you got thick, big legs, like you're good. you're good.

you're good. All right. I know you like that episode. If you did, check this one out. Shredded, ripped, defined, singledigit body fat. body fat. body fat. Yes. Yes. Yes. You want to get there? Let's talk about it. it. it. difficult and is it worth it? That's a follow-up question. follow-up question. follow-up question. Yeah. First off, we got to say, okay, so singledigit body fat, obviously body fat percentages, uh that could be represented by one digit, like 3%, 5%, 6%, 9%. That's uh ripped for men. For women, women, women, add 10%.

add 10%. add 10%. Yeah. Don't Yeah, exactly. You go you go up about