The Tech Innovations That Turned a Cynic Into a Believer | Rob Marciano

Key Takeaway

AI isn't something to fear—it's a tool that can free us from mundane tasks and reconnect us with what matters most: people. The experts building these systems are smart enough to create off-switches and safety protocols. Instead of doom-scrolling through screens, AI can handle the busywork while we focus on fostering meaningful relationships and doing work we love. The future isn't about machines replacing us; it's about technology helping us be more human.

Episode Overview

Rob Marciano, CBS News meteorologist and Cornell-trained scientist, discusses his transformation from climate pessimist to technological optimist. Through conversations with leading innovators for his new book 'The Next Big Thing,' he explores breakthroughs in energy (nuclear fusion), electricity (solid-state batteries, autonomous vehicles), infrastructure (mass timber construction, 3D printing), and artificial intelligence—making the science-based case that humanity's ingenuity will solve our biggest challenges.

Full Transcript

Transcript of The Tech Innovations That Turned a Cynic Into a Believer | Rob Marciano from 10% Happier. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

Hey everybody, welcome to the 10% Happier podcast. I'm your host Dan Harris. We're living in a time where people are, I think, quite legitimately, pretty pessimistic and anxious about the state of the world, specifically as it pertains to technology, and specifically as it pertains to artificial intelligence, but not just artificial intelligence. intelligence. intelligence. So today, we're going to talk about how to be less pessimistic and anxious. In other words, we're going to we're going to We're going to hear the evidence-based, science-based evidence-based, science-based evidence-based, science-based case for actually being optimistic.

And that case is going to be laid out for us by an old friend of mine, an old colleague as well. His name is Rob Marciano. Right now, he's the national weather correspondent for CBS News. He's been in television news for more than 30 years. He's a Cornell-trained scientist. scientist. scientist. Before CBS, he worked with me at ABC News. We were co-hosts of of of Weekend Good Morning America, and we're also personal friends. And he's got a new book that he has co-written with a physicist named James Trefil, and the book is called The Next Big Thing: Innovations for a Better, Smarter, Stronger Tomorrow.

The Optimist's Case about the future of the planet. Coming up after this quick break with Rob Marciano. Marciano. Marciano. A few things before we hear from our sponsors. I've got exciting news. If you love this show, but do not love listening to the advertisements, a subscription to my app, 10% with Dan Harris, now includes a private ad-free feed of the 10% Happier podcast, available on whatever platform you choose, whether that's Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or right inside the app itself. Plus, along with an ad-free listening experience, the app also gives you a growing library of meditations from world-class teachers, exclusive live stream events with me and many of our incredible instructors and robust and supportive discussion threads where you can ask questions, share your struggles, and connect with our growing community.

We've got a free 14-day trial if you want to try before you buy. Join the party. danharris.com. party. danharris.com. party. danharris.com. We'll be right back after this. Rob Marciano, welcome to the show. Hello, Dan Harris. Great to be here, my friend. friend. friend. This is such a trip. You usually I see you over dinner or uh for 10 years I saw you on the set of Weekend Good Morning America and now now you're on my podcast. It's like uh how did this happen? I know. I don't even think during COVID we did one of those drink-a-thons on Zoom.

You know, this is our first virtual conversation. It's a little awkward. awkward. awkward. All right. Well, first of all, congratulations on your new book or newish book. newish book. newish book. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I find it really interesting because we live in, as you know, like people are so pessimistic these days, particularly about technology. So I uh and and yet you've written this book that is super optimistic. So what are what are those of us who are pessimistic getting wrong here? You know me well, Dan, and and uh as a science guy, I'm I'm trained to be a skeptic and question things.

Uh my internal personality for a long time still is a bit of a cynic, you know, you still want to question things as a an aging adult. You've seen enough to where you want to play devil's advocate. Uh but a lot of my personality over the years has been a little bit pessimistic. So this this this this this evolution and epiphany with this book is cer- certainly been a bit of a 180 and it's taken a lot of people by surprise, you included. you included. you included.

Um Um Um but uh you know how it goes. I mean, you've been through evolutions in your in your way of life and and mentality and and this has been one for me and it's been a a joy to go through it and and much like your journey and speaking with to people about spirituality and enlightenment and and the like, getting to meet the people who are the geniuses of our generation out there developing the the latest and greatest technologies and and innovations innovations innovations that are going to propel us into the future future future uh has been amazing to witness their joy and enthusiasm and enthusiasm and enthusiasm uh is nothing short of mind-blowing and can't help you can't you can't help yourself but just to be drawn into that group.

It's infusive uh it's engaging and it's it's magnetic. So, like so much that we have in life in the world around us, when you when you meet the the right people, they can they can change your mind. And uh I I grew a lot in writing this book, and it has made me more hopeful because with all the negativity that we have out there and all the conflict that we have, be it in international geopolitics or or our national politics, you know, we're all going through this life together, one step at a time, one day at a time.

And the journey forward, while after meeting the people that are developing these new ways, is is quite inspiring. inspiring. inspiring. We'll get into the specifics, but there's the just on a high level there's the science, which is you find compelling, but it seems like actually meeting the people, the scientists really kind of put you over the top. Yeah, I mean, you think of the the people that people that people that have developed things over the years, other than the Steve Jobs and Elon Musk of the worlds, who who just cuz the way our world has been and is the past couple decades, every everybody is front and center, you know, whether it's uh a man dressed in all black on stage whipping out this new device called iPhone or Elon Musk doing his thing.

Everybody's out there in your face. face. face. But the Thomas Edisons of the worlds, the Nikola Teslas of the world, you know, they're they're it wasn't quite that way. You know, they may have their own road show. They may have heard the heard about them on a on a through a telegraph or uh some sort of newspaper, but the brilliant minds and innovators of the past have always been these guys that are behind the curtain, the Wizard of Oz. Oz. Oz. And what our modern world allows us to, whether or not you go meet them in person or you meet them like we're talking to you now, is you you get a feel for what these people are.

And more importantly, you see that they're real people. You know, they're they're they're they're the same as you are as far as flesh and blood is concerned. And there's something that is inspiring about that. I mean, you know, yeah yeah yeah, there's these guys are smarter than me. No doubt about that, and I'm privileged to meet them, but we breathe the same air the same way, we put our pants on the same way, we put our shoes on the same way. They're just like me. And and that gives that feeling of inclusivity inclusivity inclusivity that I don't think we had decades past when we weren't as so together in in every sort of medium.

So, the book goes through four different areas. The fourth area is the one where I think most people are most anxious. Um that is information technology, namely AI. Uh so, we'll hold that for last um because I think that's where um we'll want to spend the most time. But it starts with energy. And what's interesting to me is is knowing you for so long, you have spent and continue to spend an enormous amount of time like at the tip of the spear when it comes to what's happening in our climate.

Like you're the guy standing out there like a dummy in the middle of the hurricanes. Um and I'm kidding, you're standing out there quite bravely, honestly, um showing us what's happening with these hurricanes and hurricanes and hurricanes and tornadoes, etc., etc. And so And so I I I And from my POV, there there seems to be a a a very legitimate concern about what's happening with our climate. So, what what have you learned that has has like put your mind at ease to at least some extent?

extent? extent? Well, the climate crisis, if you will, is still is still alarming and it's still worrisome. still worrisome. still worrisome. Um Um Um and and and there's been an evolution of my thought process there over the past 20 years. I mean, when Al Gore came out in the in the early 2000s uh and and showed the hockey stick as a meteorologist meteorologist meteorologist who's trained to be a skeptic on the 5-day forecast, let alone the 50-year forecast. Me and my colleagues would kind of brush it off like saying, well, we'll see what happens.

I mean, it's it's not it can't it can't quite happen that fast or be that catastrophic. And and, you know, 10 years, 5 10 years later, you started to see the impacts. And here we are, and it's been consistent in in seeing the heavier rainfall and the catastrophic flooding that we're seeing, the extreme uh heat waves that we're seeing, and the extreme fire behavior that we're seeing, the explosive the explosive the explosive hurricanes that we're seeing. And to some extent, the same thing for for some of these winter storms.

So, it is having an impact, and that that is still alarming. Do I think it's the end of the world? No. world? No. world? No. I think I think I think not only do humans have the ability, amazing ability, to adapt and evolve, but so does our our planet. Um we do have the ability to slow things down. down. down. Uh will we be able to turn it around by 2050 like, you know, the United Nations hopes, hopes, hopes, or by the end of the century, [clears throat] [clears throat] [clears throat] I wouldn't say turn around, but we can we certainly have the ability to slow things down.

And when you see all the advances that we're making in so many other arenas, other arenas, other arenas, how can you not believe that uh that we'll be able to get a hold of this climate crisis and and the warming of our globe. And the number one way to do that is to is to what? To limit our carbon dioxide. Now, the book doesn't I'm not stumping stumping about Bible here, and I'm not uh stumping on climate change constantly, but it it it does have an overarching theme and and many of our our technologies are inherently better for the climate and better for our environment.

And who doesn't want that? So, if we can be more efficient and we can be cleaner and and it can and things can be uh cheaper and faster and smarter and smarter and stronger. I mean, that's a win-win-win-win-win for everybody. So, it all comes together if we can stay if we can stay on that path. But, the number one No, to answer your question, the number one way, as we all know, to try to slow down the warming of of our global temperatures and to and to slow down our climate change is to slow down our down our down our production of CO2.

And And And we need electricity, we need power, we need we need the energy, and the the great majority of the energy and electricity that were produced across the globe is from coal, from oil, and from natural gas, and those continue to belch CO2 into the atmosphere. atmosphere. atmosphere. So, wind, solar, geothermal to an extent, and nuclear, really, um that's going to propel us forward. And the most exciting thing exciting thing exciting thing uh that I got to witness and and explore while writing this book is new nuclear fusion.

Which is different from fission. Fission is what we've been doing since the '50s basically, where you split an atom. Fusion, you you're trying to fuse the atom, and that releases even more energy, like the energy of the surface of the sun. So, but it's also that much harder to do. It's been the elusive holy grail of of power generation forever. And there's a lot of scientists out there that still think, including my co-author, that that we will probably never going to get there, at least not in our lifetime.

So, I'm not that quite pessimistic because I've I've I've after talking to so many people that are working on this that are so excited and optimistic, optimistic, optimistic, but we're we're making strides, and I do think it will happen in our lifetime, at least on a small scale. And then eventually we'll have nuclear fusion, and our kids will be and grandkids will will be living in a cleaner, better place for it. So, that's the holy grail. It's debatable whether we'll get there in our lifetime, and I and it really depends on the age of the listener because some of our younger listeners may see it, and you and I may not.

However, and you kind of mentioned this, but maybe worth saying a little bit more, there are other things happening that that that other technological advances that, you know, bolstered your sense of optimism on this score. I'm a big proponent of nuclear, and if that's to be nuclear fission, the old school way, school way, school way, so be it. They are they're finding ways to make that a little bit cleaner, a little bit safer. As you know, the waste in those coming out of those facilities is problematic.

Um but but we bury it bury it enough deep in the ground, we can kind of bide our time until we figure out the fusion process. There's something in the book about tiny nuclear reactors. What's what's that about? about? about? Right now, there's billions of dollars being invested in nuclear fusion. And startup companies here in the US, that's that's the new uh space race, if you will. The gold rush is to get to nuclear fusion. And there and and a lot of these uh companies like like say Microsoft, they're investing in it heavily because, you know, they want to be able to power their data centers and the other and there are other things that they need a lot of electricity for.

So, the best way to do that is to have your own reactor uh on site. So, having these these mini reactors power maybe your your campus of data centers and or corporate offices, corporate offices, corporate offices, that's a lot more efficient than having to suck power off the grid. And then you can also can also can also feed the grid uh with with some of the power that you're not using. So, we're seeing companies develop those as well. And just to just come back to the the nuclear waste part of all of this, that's where people start getting pretty nervous around nuclear power.

And you know, people in our generation remember Three Mile Island and Chernobyl and things like that. What's the evidence-based pushback to the nervous to the anxious uh from your POV? We haven't had a major accident, if you will, since, you know, Fukushima, which wasn't really their fault. So, So, So, That was a tsunami. Yeah, the tsunami got involved there. So, the pushback is from consumers and citizens is that like you and I we remember those those accidents and and those areas are still soiled and and not livable.

And so, there's evidence there's present-day evidence that shows you that yeah, this this could be really bad. But we've like everything else, we've gotten a lot better at it. The the newer reactors that are that are that are uh coming online and even the ones that they're they're they're they're blown off the dust on and and bring it back online. They're updating with newer technologies, newer safety protocols, and making all in all making them safer to to be living around. Okay, so that's energy. On a related note, there's electricity.

Just So that So the first part of the book is energy, the second part of the book is electricity. We'll get to infrastructure and information. What's the difference in your mind between electricity and energy? energy? energy? So electric cars, uh electric airplanes now we're seeing it come online. But at some point in the future, we'll be driving our own aircraft around aircraft around aircraft around uh more than we will be our cars. And even if we do have cars, we're not going to be driving those either, right?

either, right? either, right? It's not going to be long where they're they're going to be all driverless, which I think it's amazing. As much as I like to drive once in a while, I don't know anybody likes to be stuck in traffic. Um and the numbers bear witness to the fact that driverless cars are much safer than than human driving. Yeah, most like like most accidents are human caused. So if we can limit eliminate the human, we're going to be safer on the roads and and less accidents.

So fewer uh traffic jams and a faster way to get to work, whether you go on the ground or via the air. I tend on these issues of like the state of the world to be at least short to mid-term pretty pessimistic. But the one one thing that I am personally very optimistic about is driverless cars because the it's just so much safer. What is What when you think about um or when you report on a drone air travel future, like not just airplane, but you know, going going to and from the airport or going from the suburbs into the city on drones, drones, drones, um um um how are we going to make that safe?

Well, it's just like uh every other every other every other thing in the air. It's if it's FAA it's going to be FAA regulator. There's going to be highways in the sky. There's going to be air traffic controls and airspaces that you're allowed to be in and be out of. of. of. Uh it it is a regulatory headache. No doubt about it. Um Um Um but but but if we can figure out the additional planes and helicopters that we have in the sky every year uh because of the increased amount of money in this country and the the increased amount of air travel, uh we'll be able to figure we'll figure out out uh what's out there.

What's next. There's a lot of airspace with the exception of New York City and the airspace here which is extremely congested. Uh there's a fair amount of airspace to be able to navigate around and uh and the FAA and and the air traffic controllers have the ability to do that. Now, that said, that whole scheme and I haven't I haven't done any much reporting on this, but but but there is a future in which every aircraft that's out there will be tracked automatic you know, autonomously and there'll be less human error in the air traffic control tower and more assistance of by AI and the like to where air travel, at least colliding with somebody else, will be much safer, too.

Back here on the ground, there's a bunch of reporting in the book about some of the the the innovations and cool stuff happening uh with EVs, electric vehicles, like um the the range is now growing. Like the batteries are getting larger and then also there's this all the stuff around regenerative braking. What's that about? Well, and if anybody watches uh Formula 1, they they know what the what what that is. And if what I love about auto racing is especially Formula 1 is you're seeing the future on your on your television or in person when you when you go to a race.

The best The newest technologies are being developed in Formula 1 because they have the money. So, regenerative braking is something that they've they've used in their hybrid race cars for the past several years now. And basically, what it does what it means is when when you hit the brakes going in a corner just to slow down your car, uh that that friction basically uh creates energy that charges your the battery. Much like an engine kind of keeps the alternator going in your gas-powered car, which charges your battery when when you hit the brakes in uh in a turn or just as come to a full stop, that that action, that uh cons- conservation of energy, then then gets transferred uh back into into the battery.

But, the batteries are key. You mentioned the EVs and and the range, right? The Where we struggle in the EV market is the range. Nobody wants to run out of gas. Nobody wants to be stuck on the highway because their battery their battery died. Or they don't want to have to wait an hour or 2 hours to find a charging station and then charge the battery, which takes a lot longer than putting gas in your car. The new battery that's going to take us to the next level level level in electric vehicles is solid-state batteries.

And basically, it's the same concept as fluid batteries, except it's in in the solid state. And so, those batteries drain much slower, and therefore, your range will go twice as far in an EV vehicle. And they will charge twice as fast. So, the big race amongst car manufacturers is who's going to find the solid-state battery battery battery of the future, because that's going to really make everybody buy an electric vehicle. And we're not far away from that. But when when once that happens, I think the think the think the combustible engine will begin to fade away.

That's interesting. One last question about electricity. You've done some reporting on smart homes, which is kind of like crazy to think about how our homes are going to change. What what did you learn? you learn? you learn? Well, we're seeing that already, right? Just a matter of how much you want to dive into it. The Internet of Things, as we like to call it, which is a not so fancy way of saying the Internet that's connected to connected to connected to the light bulb in this room or or my refrigerator, uh which can not my refrigerator, but some of these newer refrigerators can sense when you're out of milk or when you're out of butter and tell you to go go get some more milk.

Or better yet, go online for you and order to have it delivered to your your door. If you have a a ring camera or or a Nest thermostat, it's not quite autonomous yet, right? You can set it and you can say if the temperature falls to this number, then you can kick kick in. But who wants to go through that sort of We We want the Internet of Things to kick in and so that we don't have to think about our thermostat, where it senses what's the most efficient time of day to heat your home while you're there or not there.

And so this Internet of Things is it's it's going to be a thing. It already is in it to a small extent, but it's going to be a bigger thing and it'll like everything else that's new, it'll it'll be great when it works and and not so great and you know, maddening when it doesn't. But we we've been in that state of technology now for the past 30 or 40 years, so we're used to it. to it. to it. I mean, I think all that stuff's really cool.

cool. cool. That fancy house of yours, you must have some stuff that's automated like that. I mean, that you don't have to think. I've got nothing. We This house was built in '70s and um it's uh it's uh it's uh it is anything but smart. And maybe that's a reflection of its owners. I knew you were going there. That's that's very natural. Well, you you do have the capability of figuring out when when you're out of milk and and to go get some more or order some up, so we're going with the internet of the sniff test on the milk for now.

All right, let's talk infrastructure. Why should we be I'm I'm just joking for I'm laughing for a second about how I think for two administrations or three administrations running, there's running, there's running, there's we've always been on the cusp of infrastructure week. infrastructure week. infrastructure week. You know, where the White House is you know, they're going to roll out their big infrastructure thing and it never quite happens, although Biden maybe did some of it. You know, I think anybody who drives on the highways notices the sorry state of our infrastructure in many places in this country.

What is the the the the What is the case for optimism in this regard? regard? regard? Well, when you we think of infrastructure, use that term, it's not we often think just like you okay, well, the the interstates, the bridges, the civic buildings, and the sewer systems. That's that's the infrastructure of our shared society. But the infrastructure of all the things that we that we the desk that I'm sitting on, the the house that I that that's my home. How those things are built is infrastructure as well.

And and the exciting things that are happening on that front are going to take us to the future in a more efficient and economical way, while also creating less of a carbon footprint. Some things that are exciting are our 3D printing. And we've all seen this where computers, you know, 3D printing whatever it is, anything as small as, you know, a a glass to a home. These things you can 3D print a home. You can put just about any sort of material in one of these 3D printers, big and small, and create whatever you want.

And it doesn't have to be the scale. It can be bespoke. And so that efficiency right there is is amazing and cost-saving. So 3D printing of of homes and buildings, that's going that's going to be huge and part of our infrastructure. So that's exciting, but that's really new. What I discovered also in this book though is what what's old is is new again and exciting right in front of our eyes. And that is the use of wood. Now, you know Dan, I'm I'm a tree hugger.

I love me some trees. And for years I just cringed every side time I saw a tree get cut down. I cringed every saw I every time I saw a a piece of wood get wasted. Even some chopsticks. I mean, that would like I would have wasted we're wasting wood. And what what I learned in this book is our new use of what's called mass timber, which is basically taking blocks of of wood and and gluing them together in in some cases, putting them together like LEGO logs, and building not just small homes, but mid-range skyscrapers, mid mid-high rises, mid-rises.

rises, mid-rises. rises, mid-rises. And doing that in a cost-effective way. And uh and doing it in a in a lower carbon footprint. And one that's makes you feel good. When you go into some a place that's wood paneled, and I'm not talking about the ones from the '70s, but you know, a nice new log cabin or a lodge in the mountains, you walk in you and and and that that that those pine the pine paneling is just kind of surrounding you. It feels good. And there's a term for that in in design.

It's called biophilic design. And it's based on the fact that before all these walls and windows that we live in now, we evolved in nature. We evolved outside. And so, we naturally feel more at peace at peace at peace when we're inside, when it feels a little bit like the outside. It's why we like to have plants inside, maybe a maybe a maybe a an aquarium inside, or maybe just a little splash of wood here and there to give you that warmth of of the outdoors brought in.

So, mass timber buildings, you see them going up, especially in these mid-size cities. I feel good in that way. They take half the time to build, if not less. They take much uh less of a a footprint as far as the foundation is concerned, because building with wood is much lighter. lighter. lighter. It has some flexibility as far as being, you know, seismic. And and and it's environmentally better for us in that one, concrete and steel pump out a lot of CO2 to make. Both concrete and steel pump out 8% of the global CO2 emissions each.

So, that's 15 16% right there. We can't can't get away from concrete and steel. They're still the building blocks, you know, the foundation of a lot of what we need, but we're getting better at it. I mean, we build now high-performance concrete, which uh is twice as strong and and last twice as long. That's good. But, using a combination of wood and concrete, I think is the future. And and it has the ability to take the wood in these trees, use it for good, good, good, and capture that carbon.

All right? So, these trees throughout their lifetime, they're sucking in carbon dioxide. And when they either burn or die and and decay, then they re-release that carbon back into the into the atmosphere. Whenever we build with wood, with wood, with wood, we're capturing that carbon. It's not going anywhere until it either accidentally burns or or we get rid of it in some capacity, but it's it's going to be captured for decades if not centuries, and we get to use it as as shelter. So, shelter. So, shelter.

So, uh mass timber, let's give a shout-out to that and keep an eye out on your local community. You'll see them going up. You'll You'll look and you'll see these skyscrapers go up and and the columns are these massive wood columns. And I know what your next question is, "Well, the won't these things burn down?" They have the remarkable ability not to burn down because like these giant redwoods giant redwoods giant redwoods in these forests that that endure forest fires, fires, fires, a a building made of mass timber columns, which can be 2 3 4 ft wide, the outer the outer the outer area of that column, much like the bark of a tree, will get scorched, but the inner structure of it will remain intact.

So, yeah, they'll catch on fire like any other building because of the drywall, because of this, and because of that, uh but they'll they're just as safe as a building made completely of uh steel, concrete, or brick. brick. brick. It's pretty amazing. I do want to get to the fourth part of your book, the most controversial part, the part most of us are worrying about these days, which is information, uh specifically AI. I'm not telling you anything new. We're recording this um at the tail end of commencement season.

We'll be posting it uh um uh um uh um in a few months, so I apologize for what may seem like a temporal delay for listeners, but there are all these videos going around of anybody who mentions AI as a commencement speaker gets reflexively booed by the graduates. And you know, I just think there's an enormous amount of anxiety about what's happening. Is this thing going to take our jobs? Is it going to destroy us? Where do you net out on this? Oh, I net out on the positive, uh for sure.

And in my job as a meteorologist is already being impacted by AI, but it's being in an impacted in a in a positive way. It's making our forecast more accurate. more accurate. more accurate. Um Um Um I understand the anxiety. No doubt about that. Especially if you graduate with a four-year degree and and you've studied coding or something that's tech-heavy and and replaceable uh with with AI. So, I get the animosity and the anxiety with that. Uh but like we talked about in the beginning of this podcast, we have the ability to evolve.

You know, when the printing press came out, there was a backlash on that as well. That there would be the end of our society as we know it. So, I think every so many technologies over the over the decades and centuries that that have come out, there's been fear of the unknown. And and isn't that the case with so much of what we're afraid of or what anxiety is all about? It's the fear of what's going to happen next or the fear of what we don't understand.

understand. understand. And I don't pretend to understand everything, but I understand a lot more now after writing this book to where I'm not as scared or anxious as I used to be about the future. And And And I want everybody to feel that way. I sleep a little bit better at night uh thinking that. Um and and Dan, the the vast majority of the experts that I talked to about AI and the future of where it's where we're going with that and should we be afraid, not so much about the jobs disappearing, but about will the machine take over?

Time and time again, the experts have told me we are smart enough to build this incredible machine learning tool. We are smart enough to have an off switch. switch. switch. So, I believe in that and I rest easily on that. on that. on that. That said, That said, That said, we do need to put guardrails on it like everything else. And we need to keep it out of the bad actors because bad actors obviously can take it to a different level. So, that's the only wild card out there that I believe that we should be nervous about, but it's just like everything else, every piece of weaponry that we've ever had in in our world, we've had to worry about it getting into bad hands.

So, that's a constant battle that that we're we're no stranger to. So, this is just another another one of those instances where we've got something new and exciting uh that has infinite amount of positive aspects to it, but there's a few negative things that we just need to police and police heavily and we're we're going to be fine. It's going It's going to be great and we're going to evolve and and we're going to embrace this thing and it's going to make our lives easier and more efficient and more excited and we're going to be able to uh do more of what we love to do, which is, I think, really is be more with people.

Cuz right now, you know, think about it, like we in the past 10, 20 years, we've we've gotten so tech heavy to where we're constantly looking at our our computers or or on on our handhelds and we're getting things done, we're being more efficient, but we're not, you know, we're so engrossed in in our screen times, we're not that efficient. But, if we can get an uh an energetic AI to do some of these tasks for us and get us away from the screens, then we can have these personal connections that we we used to be pretty good at a long time ago.

So, I see that happening, that that AI is going to take some of this mundane stuff that's not good for our mental health, that's not good for our our interpersonal relationships and and take those tasks away from us and let us get back to doing what we do best, which is being with people and enjoying the people around us and fostering those relationships and and being happier in our lives because of it. it. it. You and I debate lots of things off camera camera camera um over dinner.

Let me just make the opposite case and you just just push back on me. I'll probably say some that you given that you're regulated by the FCC and you work for journalistic association and I work for myself. So I think that's think that's think that's to get the curses in this thing. You you dropped an S bomb, okay? I forgot to get the curses. the curses. the curses. Yeah, yeah, well, whatever. You be you you signed a morals clause in your CBS deal. So I don't know what you're able to get away with, but I I'll let my amygdala speak here on AI, which is one, we've got an arms race going on.

An arms race going on among a bunch of companies here here here in the US and the UK and and and um um um and when I say UK, I'm thinking specifically of DeepMind, which is part of Google, but but so it's mostly the US and I look at the folks running those companies and I, you know, don't feel a lot of comfort. There I heard this term recently um uh uh uh in in describing the our current tech overlords. Some people are calling them the nerd reich, which is which is which is harsh and harsh and harsh and clever at the same time.

So one, I don't feel a lot of comfort when I look at the people running these companies. Two, I don't look at the White House and think, oh yeah, there are some grown-ups here who understand this technology and are regulating it. Three, I think about the arms race among these companies and then also with China and I worry about whether that's all going to spin out of control. Four, I worry about the fact that even if this all goes well and we solve the alignment problem, meaning like the the AI doesn't, you know, have a plan to turn us all into paper clips.

If we solve that problem, there's still going to be massive dislocation and it may end up ultimately in 10, 20, 30 years with years with years with a world of abundance and more human connection, but the the volume and intensity of change, I think it's likely to lead to a lot of instability or I fear it will. Yeah, so I just threw a lot of stuff at you. Where am I wrong? What? I didn't I didn't think we were going to get into our typical dinner conversations here and debate debate about politics.

But you bring up These are all fair points and and uh uh given what we've seen just in the past year and a half, um there's there's it's easy to get nervous about just just about everything. And uh the instability that we see right now, I don't have a good answer for you, Dan, um other than to trust the process. And uh even though it appears that there aren't as many adults in the room as as we would one would like when we're talking about an arms race for AI, uh uh uh there's a lot of brilliant people that are just outside of that room um that want to do good and want to make sure that that our country uh succeeds and that the that the that the and that the morally good succeed as well.

Be it our government or the uh technology companies and the head of those technology companies that may be just as power power hungry as some of our politicians, right? Um uh there's a there's enough numbers of of smart powerful people in their own right that I would hope would revolt against anybody that would that would want to grab so much of the power and and do bad with it. There's not many times, Dan, where I'm right and and you're wrong. Uh and but but but I'm I'm I'm praying that's the case this time.

time. time. I mean, in some ways it's like a it's um it's like um Like I don't know. Neither of us knows, right? And your inclination based on the facts, the data set you're looking at is Yeah, I I my inclination is I trust the process. And my inclination looking at the same data set is I'm worried. But it really is nobody knows and this is all just our gut gut gut based on the information we're gathering and and and the nature of our own minds.

I've I've got a faction of friends that are full-on tin foil hat wearing fraternity man and they I've got I'm on their text thread so I'm getting all I'm getting bombarded with all sorts of stuff uh from from that side of the spectrum and uh and I've got friends that are making excellent well-thought-out points like you are and being the devil's advocate. And uh and then I'm talking to the scientists who, you know, one one could argue that the scientists and the people that are building these amazing things they're [clears throat] a little too busy to be, you know, bothered by what's going on and and the geopolitical world or what's happening in Washington.

They're focused on making this this thing that's been their lifelong passion and they want to see completed within their life. their life. their life. Uh so it's possible that I've gotten a little bit drunk by talking to these amazingly smart people and and all the exciting things that they're building. So uh So uh So uh I wouldn't pretend to know what's going to happen on a geopolitical scale. I just know what's happening on a in innovative scale and and it and it's wonderful and mind-blowing and gives me a lot of hope.

Say say more about the innovations. I know you've reported on like how AI is likely to impact health care, for example. example. example. Well, you know, so AI and computing. Uh so one thing we haven't discussed yet is quantum mechanics and quantum computing which, you know, and then you talk about the quantum realm where we're starting to get into Marvel uh comics, but comics, but comics, but and it's on a quite frankly, it's it's still hard for me to get my my head around it because I I grew up with your your your your classical physics of the atom and the electron spinning around the nucleus and all all that stuff and and quantum quantum quantum mechanics takes you into the subatomic realm where things are smaller than the atom and they don't really move around in a circular orbit.

Things move around in waves and and and sometimes they can get entangled with each other and there's there's a more of a gray area than there is a black and white instead of zeros and ones like you have in the digital computing quantum computing it's it's more of a a gray area. And so if we can figure that part out that gets our computing power to grow exponentially. I mean the amount of of of uh problems that quantum computers are going to be able to solve is absolutely mind-blowing and from breaking the from developing bespoke drugs based on your genetic code to curing cancer.

That's all going to come about with the combination of our artificial intelligence and the used of of quantum computers. So the the AI is is exploding now exponentially obviously and we had a we had to get this book out because it's it's it's going to soon beg for an update on the AI chapter. Things are moving so fast. I think all of us are seeing that. Um but next up is the quantum quantum quantum quantum computing race and when we get that figured out and we're getting better at it we're operational on it just not at scale.

When we we come become scale on quantum computing we're going to solve a lot of the things that have been the bane of our existence and and our health and our longevity is going to be one of them. So that's a whole another topic of innovations that I'm not a doctor but the people that have have told me about the science science part of it and the the problems we can solve that's exciting that's exciting on a on a health and well-being level as well. So, in sum, when when you think about the the the innovations that we're seeing um in terms of energy, information, electricity, electricity, electricity, and infrastructure, and infrastructure, and infrastructure, you as a dad, it just seems like you feel better about the state of the world that your your kids are going to be um you know, living their li- in in which your kids will be living their lives.

good about the future state of the world. I I I look around and I see all sorts of waste and nonsense that's that's happening now. And and we can't rest on our laurels as citizens and think, "Okay, well, these geniuses that are figuring out all these shortcuts is going to be our way to the future." We still all have to do our part. And we still have to all be conservative. We can't go back to the cowboy economy of just wasting things away and being com- completely consumption-driven.

completely consumption-driven. completely consumption-driven. You know, turn off the lights when you leave the room. Uh recycle when you can. Now, recyc- you know, on a side note, recycling is is frustrating to me. Uh so frustrating to me because so little of what we think is being recycled is is actually being recycled. So, we And and that's there there's a myriad of levels of problems as to why that is. It's not because there's there's mean people who want the environment to be dirty. It's just it's it's economic.

It's it's about the assembly line process. It's about the manpower. AI will help us in the recycling realm as well in eliminating the costs the costs the costs that are involved right now in physically separating things that need to be recycled and such. Uh but our but our use of plastics and our lack of being able to recycle plastics efficiently efficiently efficiently is frustrating to me right now. Uh it will continue to be frustrating, I think, for the years to come until we figure out a way there.

And I'd like to believe that brilliant minds are are looking for a way to have have our use of plastics and things that aren't great for the environment to get those recycled in a proper way. So, I'm excited for the future. I'm optimistic for the future. I think we've got still a long way to go. This is not going to happen today. It's not going to happen tomorrow. It It may not happen in the next 10 years, but it's coming slowly but surely. But I think it's important for us all to do our part.

And I can tell you this, Dan, cuz I know you're the enlightened one and I'm still striving for that. Is that Is that Is that uh I still even though I know that that not everything that I put in that recycling bin is is going to eventually get recycled. Some of it will be thrown into a landfill fill for various reasons. reasons. reasons. It [snorts] still makes me feel good. And it still makes me feel like I'm doing my part as a citizen into the world.

And that makes me sleep better at night. And if we can all think that way and and act that way, uh you know, it's going to get cleaner without us even having to rely on the geniuses that are working on new stuff. One of the expressions that we use a lot in the show is action absorbs anxiety. And uh I think what you're describing with recycling definitely fits the bill. Before I let you go, Dr. Marciano, can you just remind everybody of the name of your book and like where else can we find you?

Uh it's uh it's CBS, for example. Oh, yeah. I'm now at I'm at CBS, as you know. We used to be at ABC together, but once you left, I didn't feel like there was a reason to be there. Uh so, I'm now at CBS uh doing my day job, which is uh as their meteorologist. So, my my expertise, if you will, is is is weather and and uh sciences of the atmosphere. The name of the book is The Next Big Thing. You can see that poster my sister made, so I'm putting it to use back there.

Innovations for a better, smarter, and stronger tomorrow published with Nat Geo. So, what does that tell you? It's got pictures. You know, my friends know I'm not going to read or write a book that doesn't have pictures. So, it's got pictures, it's got great illustrations. It's a how things work in everyday life, how they were developed by the brilliant minds of our past, and what the brilliant minds of our present are doing to give us the next great innovations of the future. And it's it's available at all your favorite local book booksellers including including including including of course Amazon, which will get it to you in a hurry in time for birthdays, holidays, Father's Days, you name it.

It's available to you. And you don't have to read it all in one sitting. You know, it's one of those things you kind of go back to and and just let hang around and when you're curious about something go into it. And curiosity is what drove me to write it, and I hope curiosity is what drives people to to buy it and read it and engulf themselves into the wonders of science and engineering and all that's going to take us into the future. future. future. Robert Marciano, the Martian of CBS News and and author of The Next Big Thing, Innovations for a Better, Smarter, Stronger Tomorrow.

My brother. My brother. My brother. Great to see you. Thanks for doing this. Great to be with you, Dan. Good to see you and and I really appreciate it. Love you, brother. Thank you so much to everybody who worked so hard to make this show. 10% Happier is produced by Tara Anderson and Eleanor Vassili. Our recording and engineering is handled by the great folks over at Pod People. Lauren Smith is our managing producer. Marissa Shneiderman is our senior producer. DJ Kashmir is our executive producer. And Nick Thorburn of the band Islands wrote our theme.

Also, one last thing before I let you go here. Starting Sunday, July 12th at 4:00 p.m. Eastern, the Summer Sunday Live series premieres. Join legendary teacher Sharon Salzberg for an 8-week deep dive into the Buddha's cookbook for human happiness, the eightfold path. You'll experience live meditation and Q&A only on the 10% with Dan Harris app. Go to danharris.com to start your free trial today.