The Surprising Benefits of Gaining Body Fat | Mind Pump 2768

Key Takeaway

Most fitness enthusiasts chase single-digit body fat percentages, but research shows peak athletic performance occurs at 12-15% for men and 18-25% for women. When you stay too lean for too long, testosterone drops, sleep suffers, and muscle building stalls. The counterintuitive solution: intentionally gain body fat through consistent calorie surplus while strength training. This hormonal reset unlocks rapid muscle growth, better recovery, improved joint health, and restored libido—all while eating the foods you enjoy.

Episode Overview

The hosts discuss why maintaining extremely low body fat percentages can be counterproductive for muscle building and overall health. They challenge the social media-driven ideal of being 'shredded,' explaining how staying too lean disrupts hormones, recovery, and performance. The conversation covers optimal body fat ranges for different goals, the importance of eating in a calorie surplus to build muscle, and how strategic 'refilling' after periods of leanness can trigger exceptional muscle growth. They emphasize finding the right balance between training intensity and volume, especially as priorities shift with age and life circumstances.

Full Transcript

Transcript of The Surprising Benefits of Gaining Body Fat | Mind Pump 2768 from Mind Pump Show. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

All right, everybody says lose body fat, right? Body fat's bad for you. You got to get rid of it. Rid of it. But did you know that for some people they need to gain body fat? In fact, there's benefits to gaining body fat. For a lot of you fitness fanatics, there's a good percentage of you watching right now. We're going to talk about why some of you, this is exactly what you need to do. Get fatter. Get fatter. you know uh obviously we've we've talked not only on live callers we all have experience uh with helping people with this this has been confirmed by my experience many many times over but I'm actually not familiar with uh the research around it and it do we have uh studies to show that the person who's trying to gain body fat or I mean excuse me gain uh muscle from a certain body fat percentage versus another is or is there is there research to support what we're talking about?

talking about? talking about? Not specifically. Um, but what they do find is uh the the athletes or high performers and strength tend to carry more body fat than what social media will have you believe is a good body fat percentage. So like uh athletes who do really well and perform well, right? If you're an athlete, you're not on stage posing. You actually have to perform well. And uh athletes that do really well, generally male male athletes, will fall around 15% body fat, which is 5% higher body fat percentage than the 10% that social media will have you believe is a healthy body fat percentage.

Uh but I'll I'll speak to some data though. Um going too low will destroy your hormones. This is both true for men and for women. uh for men when you start to go below 10 for most men you go below 10% 10% 10% you see depressions uh in testosterone testosterone starts to drop uh in women in particular women when their body fat percentage starts to get in the teens especially as it starts to get let's say below 18% what you start to see are uh reductions in fertility lost period estrogen progesterone levels start to get out of whack and by the way This is a common thing.

If there's a fe if there's a woman listening or watching right now who used to be an athlete and compete uh and you know push herself, you know how common it is uh that you're you lose your period uh because you're just working too hard and getting too lean. And that's just cuz hormone dysfunction. So for many people in particular fitness fanatics in particular people who are so afraid of not being ripped so afraid of not having definition definition definition when I've worked with people like this often times the goal is to gain some body fat and through that process we get all these great results but until we gain body fat it's like forget it's like impossible it's like pushing a boulder uphill.

uphill. uphill. So I think that's obvious. Um, when you talk about like extremely low because in in unhealthy places, say male at six or lower tends to be unhealthy and you could have hormonal stuff. Women under like 17 18% similar type of story. But I wonder if there's more of a correlation to correlation to correlation to ju just okay a person who like let's say um the guy who just because we've talked to someone just recently like this. the guy who's just hovers around 8% body fat and he's struggling to build build muscle, but he he's always hovering around that.

Well, that also tells me another thing that if he's always hovering around there, he's always around maintenance. Maybe he's lucky a slight surplus, but mostly in a deficit. And I wonder s if there's actually less of a correlation to the body fat percentage and more a correlation of just a what what it does to just be in this caloric surplus for an extended period of time. And the reason why I say this is because uh coming from someone who's been as low as 3% body fat, some of my best gains came right after that.

I didn't I wouldn't I didn't have to be all the way up 13 15%, but what I was definitely on was a a massive calorie surplus after that, right? So, coming from a a deficit of 6 to 8 weeks coming into a show and then coming out of a show where I'm feeding the body consistently over my maintenance every day, day, day, man, I just I I I felt like I was growing and building and so, you know, do you think that maybe there's there's more there than just oh, it's there because there's this it's a it's a body fat percentage thing because you're right.

Obviously, when you're when it's so low, you're going to have hormonal, but if you're in that kind of like say 8%, which some people can carry themselves there and be hormonally okay. Do you think maybe it might have more to do with the the added 12, 13, 14, 15, 50% body fat from the guy who's used to being at 8% has more to do with all the extra calories he's has to get. Oh, of course it does. Body fat percentage is just the thing that we can measure.

measure. measure. Okay. Uh but by the way, it's actually quite uh relatively rare for a guy who just always is at 8% to have ideal hormones. And what you'll see when they go up to 10 or 11%, all things being equal, is their testosterone levels go up. up. up. Generally speaking, there's always those genetic anomalies. I know people will point out point out point out proathletes that eat Skittles and, you know, all day long and like those are just freaks of nature. Those are the only ones I saw that did well.

Uh it was the genetic anomalies honestly like the guys that were like low body fat just would gas out real fast and and you know you you'd see like power differences completely too and I just um I think it's one thing to like I think the perspective of of that look and that physique is very misleading uh for a lot of people with when you're talking about performance obviously um but that's the general consensus from like your average person is like, "Well, this person's like ripped." They're Look at fights.

Like, when you when when I bet on fights, I'm not betting on the super shredded guy. I know. Typically, yeah, they get destroyed. You have to have a little bit. No, that's that's that's not a bad point. And and to be quite honest, the people that I've that I've almost always had to coach this to were women. Uh, almost always. Been a couple guys out there, out there, out there, but it was the women who, uh, you know, strength trained, did everything right, but their calories are always so low.

They're always walking around 15% 14% body fat. You know, I I've had a couple cases in fact of women uh one of them worked for me years ago and she got a bone density test and it came back and she strength trained all the time and it came back she was borderline osteopenia and she was like 30 she must have been 32 32 32 and she was so flabbergasted like how can I have I've been lifting weights for years years years and it was like you got to eat more and you can't walk around at 15% body fat.

uh you got to bump your calories, train it, it, it, right? And then again, if you look at like the data, like if you look at really if you look at people who are underweight versus people who are a little bit overweight, a little bit underweight actually has worse mortality uh outcomes than someone who's a little bit overweight. Okay. Um and being overweight but strong is actually better than being a little underweight and weak. Far better. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. From a mort from a mortality and health uh perspective.

Um, here's some other benefits that you'll notice by is if this is you and you're listening to this right now, you're probably this is gonna you're scared or you want to skip this. You're like, I'm not going to do that. But hear me out. Here's what you'll find. You'll find not just you'll build more muscle. Yes. You'll gain body fat and you'll build strength and muscle. You'll also notice things like your joints don't hurt. Like suddenly your joints feel better. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh that's a big one.

That's actually the first thing that the people that I worked with noticed is that their joints just started uh feeling a lot better. Hair and libido too. Hair and libido are also a big hair, nails, and skin. Massive difference in those things. And libido. I know a lot a lot of people that like both men and women when they're when they run low calorie like that or low body fat percentage for an extended period of time uh crushes that libido. libido. libido. By the way, I want to be clear with that too cuz it's not just the hormone uh depression that causes the low libido because that for sure will.

But you talk to a male bodybuilder on anabolic steroids, they got high testosterone. That's right. And their pre-contest, no libido. No, my life. Look at all the testosterone in the world. No libido. Their body fat percentage is too low. Katrina always hated the last last two weeks of weeks of weeks of I know. I'm serious. She just knew like the last two weeks I'm using turning into a monk. And which is which is crazy when you think about that to your point is because I'm taking exogenous testosterone.

So you have low testosterone. testosterone. testosterone. So if you were to go test my my levels, it's like I've got higher than normal average in me, but yet my libido was crushed during that time. So normal. It's a protective uh mechanism. You need body fat on your body and it's not just the extreme lows. I'm telling you, like if you're if you're a dude and you like always walk around 9 10% uh and you want to make more progress in the gym uh and and you eat clean, you probably already do, right?

You're 9 10%. So, it's like I don't need to tell you don't eat junk food. Track your body fat percentage while continuing to eat healthy and start eating more until you see your body fat go up to 11 and 12%. And tell me you don't see crazy strength gains in the gym. gym. gym. Right. I know. It's it's one of those things you're not going to know till you actually go through that process and feel it. feel it. feel it. That's right. And then, you know, back to what you were saying, Adam, about, you know, when you come out of a show and you get some of the best gains of your life.

your life. your life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh this has been documented. We know this. Endurance athletes were the first ones to really uh take advantage of this. Bodybuilders do it to look a particular way on stage, but we know when you deplete and then you re that, you know, bodybuilders call refilling. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Endurance athletes know this. Your body will store more energy. Yeah. After a rebound. In other words, uh if you're an endurance athlete, you deplete your carbs then you eat more carbs than you did before.

You'll actually go into your race with more energy stored than you would have had you never depleted and then refilled because your body has kind of this rebound effect. I believe and I don't know any studies that show this but you talk to anybody who's ever experienced this strategy. There's a muscle building rebound effect as well. I experienced the same thing out and I did it naturally. I did it when I got really lean for the original maps anabolic. I did a photo shoot with Doug.

I got my body fat down like 4%. Um and after that I just fed my body and I just built like it was like two months of just especially that first four weeks was like I just built muscle. Maps starter, maps transform, maps anabolic, maps performance. All 50% off right now. Go to mapsfitnessproducts.com. Use the code new year50 for the discount. By the way, that code works on all of them. Get all four. It's a good time. All right, real quick. If you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over at mypumpstore.com.

I'm talking right now. Hit pause. Head on over to mypumpstore.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. Do you do you feel like too that there there's something to do with like the receptors like your androgen receptors have been like kind of ringed out or something like that and then it's just then all a sudden you feed and it's just like they're just they've been waiting for that. Totally. Sleep is another one uh that you'll notice. Um in fact uh as you get leaner and I've experienced this also for me it's right around 7%.

For other people, it'll be a little higher or maybe lower for some genetic anomalies. But when I get down below 8 7%, I don't care how great I'm doing everything, my sleep starts to suffer. I just don't get as good of a a sleep. Um we talked about joint pain, skin, hair, nails, mood changes big time, you guys. Uh you just feel feel feel uh much better and healthier. And it's it's only relatively recently that we attributed being shredded to healthy. This was almost never the case uh in human history.

Um especially not women. When women chase a six-pack, some guys can get a six-pack and remain pretty healthy and keep their hormones somewhat okay. I'm talking about natural men. You know, you could do it if you do everything right. All stuff. Women who chase a sis six-pack, you're pretty much guaranteed to screw up your hormones. Like, it's going to happen. In fact, I just saw somebody post on our forum. It was a woman. She posted a selfie. She's like, "I know it's unhealthy. I know it's this and but I want to see a six-pack." And it's like, well, I mean, she knows it's going to mess things up.

But chasing that uh is is not a good idea. Now, to the average person, you probably don't need to hear gain body fat because you're probably dealing with too much of it. But there's a lot of fitness fanatics where when I would coach them, uh, I would tell them, you know what our goal is? I got to get your body fat up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I got to get your body fat percentage up. Otherwise, this isn't this just isn't going to work. Yeah. Very much is something that becomes an obsession.

It's it's that um that one thing that uh you think is going to give you the ultimate um uh version of you to display, right? So, you know what's funny? It's tough to to say add more. And you know what's funny about this? when they do surveys uh broad surveys on men and women and ask them what is the ideal physique for the opposite sex. So, I was so funny you went that way because what was going through my head is just like it's so funny how both men try to achieve this look that women don't even think are very attractive and women do the same thing.

They want the ab like I've never met a guy who's just like, "Oh yeah, I like my chick to have like six-pack abs, cocky abs." Like, no. No dude's ever one guy has ever said that. And it's it's rare that you hear that from you. You might hear some girls that like that really jacked look. But it's pretty rare that they like that. I think if you stay like in our fitness fanatic space, then you'll get a little distorted, you know, opinions. True. But when they do like these big surveys, what do they find?

Uh women like men who are fit around 13 to 15%. Yeah. 12 to 15, I think is the number fit and healthy. Now, here's why. Our preferences uh are wired for fertility and health and longevity. longevity. longevity. That's what it signals. Yes. So, it's like the strong, able-bodied, able-bodied, able-bodied, fertile man. That's the look I'm looking for. It's not 9%. It's not a 9% body fat percentage. Men typically like a woman around 22% you know fit healthy as high as 25 26%. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In many cases uh not the you know 17 16%.

Now if you ask men like you said what they would want and women what they think they want. It's this really strange distorted strange distorted strange distorted Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. look or whatever. But I'm just encourage I'm trying to encourage people uh you know listening right now. You know who you are. Yeah. uh as you're listening to this, like you might want try going through a a season, a a 60-day season of, you know, being healthy, exercise, and then your goal is like, I'm going to get my body fat percentage up, and then let me track all the other stuff that happens and see what this feels like.

You'll be blown away, and it may just change your relationship with fitness. fitness. fitness. Paradigm might just shift in a direction that'll be really, really uh beneficial. Have you since we're on the subject of body fat percentage, have you dex scan lately? Where? lately? Where? lately? Where? I've never done a DEXA scan. Oh, you haven't? No, never. No, never. No, never. Oh, I don't think I either. Well, I know you don't. you don't. you don't. I don't think you body fat. I didn't even think you knew what it was.

You shut up, dude. Are you saying this cuz of the conversation earlier about our our our combined body weight? Yeah, Adam is like really concerned about our general weight. There's a there's an there's an off-air joke that uh for 10 years now, we've all we've we've been able to maintain the same body fat percentage, the same weight roughly combined. roughly combined. roughly combined. Combined. Combined. Combined. So, in other words, one guy gets smaller, someone else gets bigger. It's always the same. It shifts. It shifts. It shifts.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We have this kind of average going on. on. on. Otherwise, it throws off the universe. So, So, So, we need the balance. So, the off air joke is I've been texting S, like, "Hey, bro, it's your turn to get small now. I need to lead out a little bit cuz I'm trying to get jacked right now. So, so he's going to throw off our throw off he's going to throw off our average, you know, like trying to turn me to a marathon runner.

Like otherwise and otherwise Justin needs to get anorexic cuz if he doesn't if if you don't get smaller and I keep getting bigger, he's going to throw the universe off. universe off. universe off. Justin has to be beefcake, dude. His head's too big. You look like a lollipop. lollipop. lollipop. Be the weirdest head. Weirdest looking skinny guy you've ever seen. Dude, seen. Dude, seen. Dude, he's a big He has to has to fit, dude. I'll do a Dex with you. I've never done one before. So, I want to go do it right now.

I always like doing it when I'm on like when I'm just on the front end because right now you're trying to do what? Build. what? Build. what? Build. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is so Can I just say this right now? I was just going to say it on air that it's so funny to me how fast you build muscle. It's you just started. It look like you gained 10 pounds. So, no. Honestly, literally literally you look like you put on think about this environment the like the last few months you've been what you've been going through and now all of a sudden you're like shifting back into health.

health. health. Yeah. I mean, I've just Yeah. I just have been able to you do like three workouts. But yeah, you do gain you gain muscle real fast. I'm on like three weeks right now. So I'm on three weeks of like really good consistency, really good diet, and most importantly, better sleep. I wouldn't even say so. I scored my first uh 80 I got an 89, which was like one of the best scores I've ever had. And I got an 82 uh or the f and in the last uh 45 days, those are the first times I've ever touched the 80s.

70s has been good for me. I've had some really rough ones. And so, and I think the hardest part or what's new, it's so funny doing this for so long. so long. so long. Every time I do this, it presents different challenges. So, my challenge this time is like I got to really be careful. I'm really dancing this line of like I I'm, you know, you know, and we're all like this, right? We get in that rhythm and I want to go. You know what I'm saying?

Right? So, and for me, I know that my sleep has never suffered so much and I haven't and I'm I'm not getting good sleep. And so I'm very mindful of like, you know, really keeping the volume kind of low and and the intensity moderate uh while I'm going. I also know too when I first get back in, like I was just I today's my day in the life. So I was just sharing the story with uh you know, I'm back to taking the Keon uh pills, the amino acids.

Yeah, the amino acids. And so cuz I'm I'm pro the re probably one of the reasons why you're gaining so first of all you have a lot of muscle memory but you were eating I would assume under 140 grams of protein a day for sure way maybe even around 100. I'm so like I you know and maybe I'm different than a lot of people but when when I'm not paying attention or really tracking and I and I'm a me I'm always a meat eater like I I mean I love You'll just eat two meals.

Yeah. But Exactly. I'll eat I'll eat two meals that are 50 maybe 60 a big a big steak meal that's giant is 60 grams of protein protein protein and so um I easily and then maybe I had like a bar or something in the day. So you're talking about you know 5050 and another 20 grams in a in a in a day is like a could be a very normal day and I'm a 230 lb guy like so that's way under my protein. Have you been able to hit 200?

No, I'm not even close to 200 yet. So I Well, 150 to two 200 would be like a perfect day and I've had a couple that are around there. Um but so right now just the aminos three times a day I take them. So that's what I when I did that makes a big difference. when I did that whole uh comeback series uh and it was after that that interview we did with with Keon and uh you know he he really sold me on the science on especially if you're somebody who's u low and I know that's me and so what I'll do is I'll I'll be taking it three times a day until I start getting really consistent with around 200.

When I get around 200 I'll probably scale back down to like once a day I'll still take them. And then once I start pushing 220, but that's I'm a ways away from like like where where you're at right now where you don't miss 220. What is it? Five is it five or six of them a day? It's six is what it calls for. Three times a day. Yeah. Yeah. And I do three times. Yeah. Of course, that makes a big difference. I mean, no, it it helps while I know that I'm running low.

Plus, I need all the help I can get recovery-wise right now with my sleep not optimal. So, it's hard to eat a lot of protein if people don't understand. Oh, yeah. I think everybody over I think people overestimate people overestimate people overestimate you because you eat you eat the meat like because again I'm a meat eater I can easily go eggs in the morning a meat lunch and a meat dinner and so you in your head and I and I got full right I'm full for the day so someone might go like oh that's a lot of protein for me to hit 220 every day you have to go after it and I have to have after it go after it and I have to have at least one 50 gram shake a day I tried doing all food so hard bro it's like it's like another job if over 200 lb.

Yeah, it's kind of crazy. It's like, oh, bro, that's a lot. So, at the end of the night, I'm like, every night I have a shake to hit that number because otherwise it's like, okay, cool. I'm going to go eat another 40 grams of protein right now. I don't want to eat. And so, people understand too. So, people understand too, cuz I know there there's there's there's the other side of the spectrum of just longevity and health. Um, Um, Um, but I mean, I'm in the game of like you you made the comment on it, right?

like that. You guys, part of why I rebound so fast is cuz I I I check the boxes and I do it in this. It's like, of course, I could get away with only hitting 150 and still get in shape and be healthy and do all those things, but I know if I'm hitting optimal protein, I have the perfect balance of intensity and volume. I focus on my sleep. I'm taking my if I do those things and I do it appropriately the to me the the the real art of this is in and what's taken me decades to get there is the the the the real right balance of of volume and intensity.

It's really easy to be off or on. It's real easy to like I'm not doing [ __ ] I don't do anything. And it's really easy like I'm motivated now. Headphones in. Go get it. and I'm cha I'm chasing that sore feeling where I've learned and it's taken me a lot of uh years of the wrong way or overdoing it to like knowing that sweet spot of like just get in the gym touch a few of the compound lifts that I need to don't even have to like push it really hard it's like man my body's coming off a crazy layoff and recovery I don't need I don't need much and and then and then just keep and then just just a little every time I I come back to that exercise.

So, a little bit more, a little bit more. I'm doing uh what I'm starting to do with myself uh is one week out of the month maybe is when I push it with the volume a little bit. And I don't mean a lot like I'll push it a little bit with the volume. Three weeks out of the month I kind of cruise. And you know what the result of that is? Better results. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Just way better results. So, and I have I'm literally like having to track it because my tendency like a lot of people who love working out is to make it, you know, every week push it a little bit because I love it.

I'd rather spend time in here. I'm having a good time. I'm listening to music. I'm doing my thing. So, now it's like, no, no, stop right there. Five sets. That's it. I got to stop. Five sets and get creative with it or whatever. or whatever. or whatever. I I really feel like most people fall on either end of the spectrum. Very few people have got the the the right down the middle. And I'm not even claiming that I think I have got it perfect. It's like I've gotten better at getting right there there there because it's either you're the and and I and this this is for all coaches that are listening too is learning to to to figure that out with your clients cuz you're you're going to get both clients.

You're going to get the the fitness athlete addicts and you're also going to get the people that are the couch potatoes that have a hard time being motivated just to walk. And it's like understanding that about who you're coaching shifts the way I coach completely. Totally. And so I and I so I know that about myself that I've teeter on the athlete intensity want to get after it person. And so I know that when I get in that mode, it's like I've got to be constantly reminding what people need to understand about athletes even first off uh there's a there's a bias with high level athletes.

What you have with high level athletes are they're typically younger. They typically this is what they do. This is like their job. Uh and they're genetically gifted on top of it and they've been doing it for years. So, let's start there. But even those people have an in-season and offseason. They So, when we look at an athletes training regimen, well, whatever is posted, we're typically looking at their inseason. I guarant nobody trains like that all the time. You can't they'll injure themselves. They figured this out, by the way.

Uh, so their training doesn't look like that all the time. In season may look crazy. Again, we're dealing with a pro alete. We're dealing with a genetic anomaly. They're young, but their off season is very, very different. You can't train like that all the time. So, even for fitness fanatics who are very consistent, you got to think to yourself in season, offseason. And in season is a lot shorter than offseason's most year. That doesn't mean you don't train. No, you just approach your training differently. And then strength training in particular, we're just trying to build muscle and build strength.

If you want to build endurance and stamina and resilience, it looks different. So then you can add more volume, then you can add more whatever. And then if you're in a particular sport that requires mental toughness, requires resilience. Well, then there's a value in beating yourself up, but it's not for the physical physiological strength. It's about like I got to be able to to take a take punishment. Yeah. punishment. Yeah. punishment. Yeah. Because my sport involves that. you know, know, know, when you're when Justin when you're uh when you're good consider yourself uh you know, inconsistent or or not doing not like in your rhythm or what like that, what does your training look like?

Cuz you're you're different than like how I train and how we train stuff like that. Like if you when you say you're like off or I'm not training consistently, what does that look like? It's I mean for me uh it's definitely low volume. So, I I go way low volume if I'm like off. Um, and it's really just it's kind of somewhat of a maintenance mentality to it to where I I hit like a few of the major lifts. Like it's either a squats and overhead press.

It's like it's something that's a big mover and then I'm I'm concerned more on like movement at home and all day. And so I'm like more focused on the dogs, the kids, the this, the that. Everything's outward focused and it's not like inward focus. I just I'm really just like touching weights and, you know, um it's it's not like it's an everyday thing. I'll do like one thing. Yeah. You know, or like two things, you know, uh and and it's like it gets to a point where I don't feel strong anymore and I feel kind of like doughy and I'm like, dude, no, I don't like this.

And then I'll get after it and then get consistent. And I'll go through spurts of like, you know, two maybe 3 months and then I'm just I start coasting again. I'm like focused on my kids. I'm focused on, you know, the dogs. I'm focused on like moving life over to a new house and, you know, all this other stuff. But, uh, yeah, I've I've learned to kind of just navigate through that a little bit better by at least making sure like I get I get some gross motor movement in there that's like substantial.

You have a pretty healthy approach. What I noticed about you, Justin, is it appears, correct me if I'm wrong, it looks like what you do is you make sure you can still do uh certain exerciser movements. Yeah, movements. Yeah, movements. Yeah, that's your test. Like, can I still do this? Can I move? Well, it's very performancedriven. Like, yeah, in that in that in that I've noticed that with you when you're coasting is you'll go out there and I can tell what you're doing is you're trying, can I still do this?

Can I still move? Do I feel weak? Can I swing the club? Oh, no. This hurts a little bit and then you kind of ramp it up a little bit. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And then I'll see I'll see a weak spot or something like that and then I'm like all hyperfocused on that. Dude, speak. Go ahead. No, I just what he said is something else that as as I've gotten older, I've been better about this and and is and I don't know if it's just trainer wisdom is that when I'm when I'm off and inconsistent, I do the same thing is that I'm better like if I'm if I am not disciplining myself to get in and get those lifts in that I know are so valuable, then I at least go, okay, this is the time where I I choose to to clean the car.

I go do more yard work. I go do more physical activities and so at least am creating movement. I never want to be inconsistent in the gym and then also sitting on my couch. Yeah. Doing nothing. It's like I feel the same way. I feel like that's like, hey, you didn't go lift today. Like you need to go for that walk or that hike or oh hey, you need to go outside and go do yard work or like that's I've been good about that as I've gotten older of Okay.

And then also even with the flexibility in the diet, it's like, you know, I like there there's a lot of foods I like and I enjoy. When I'm strength training is when I get to do those things when I when I'm when I'm sending a loud signal that my body needs to build muscle. Yeah. Then I allow these these extra cal and I still make that simple rule of still eat that protein first and then if I still want that treat tonight, I'll go have that treat tonight on top of that.

But go get that first because I've strength trained. I know I send a loud signal to build muscle. So, I know a lot of those extra calories are going to go to some good work versus, okay, I'm not strength training at all. All I'm really doing is walking and moving around. Not the time because all that extra walking and moving around, which is not a lot of calorie burn. I could easily wipe that out with one dessert afterwards. And so, that's my way of going like, uh, if I really want that, I better get in the gym tomorrow and then I'll have it like that.

That balance has kept me in that teens, always in the mid- teens body fat percentage. And I probably fluctuate from, you know, when I'm uh when I'm on it, you know, 10% when I'm off of it, 15 16% and that's always been a no matter where my training volume is. Yeah. No, that's good. For, you know, was the the biggest game changer by far for me was fixing my gut health. That was such was such was such a game changer. It's like I can't even when I used to complain about that a long time.

fine. The first year, couple years of our podcast was off, bro. For for probably seven years, I was on and off. Sometimes better, sometimes worse, but never good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh and it's such a game chang I I can eat now 3,500 calories of, you know, healthy food, and it doesn't bother me. My gut health used to bother me so much that even if I ate clean, healthy things that I didn't react to, if I just ate too much of it, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. it would cause problems.

It wasn't until I treated myself for parasites, that's what made the biggest difference. The thing that was the biggest was the parasites. cuz I know you've always been good about the probiotics. You know, you've been good about all those helped. Everything helped. Okay. But I there was definitely parasites. I went on and I don't recommend this. This is not recommended for people. Uh but you know uh I you know I tend to do my own thing. I did fenbendazol and I uh which uh you know both those together will pretty much kill any anything you have.

And um and it's again fenbendazol is for animals but you know hey here we go. I did it anyway. And it worked miraculously. And then there was a gut healing process after that where actually had probably some damage that had to heal. So it just got better and better and better and better better better to the point now where you guys if I I mean I still can't have dairy but that's been an issue since I was a kid. If I if my gut is off a little bit now it's better within a few hours.

In the past if my gut was off I was like here I go two weeks of bad gut. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it was terri for two weeks. one bad, you know, issue it would last me two week. Now it's like, you know, I'll be I'll be okay by this afternoon, which is so wild. It's so wild. What I feel like I see in you is that I feel like I can tell now cuz I've known you for so long. And it used to be your gut.

So like that. You get uh you get puffy face like I do when you when you eat off, but that's all you eat when you eat off, but that's all you get. Like you don't get like a I'm screwed up glove. I see your neck. I see your neck. Your face starts to hold some water. I'm like, "Oh, somebody enjoyed himself." will do that. There's that one stupid dude. We interviewed uh Jordan Peterson. We pinned it at the top of our Instagram. That's when we came back from London London London and I was eating all kinds of beans on toast and pastries and all kinds of gluten and every time I look at that video I'm like, "Dude, your face, bro." But I mean what what I mean that's what I what I think has got to be great for you beer.

you beer. you beer. Cuz I I I react that way. That's how I've never been really bad gut stuff, but I definitely will hold water. Like I'll hold I'll hold water and you'll Oh, I'll feel it. I'll feel in my hands, you know, feet. You take your sock. You got a little little mark on your leg. You're like, "What's going on?" You just see an impression of your sock like just like smack. I can't tell you how many people that clients clients clients uh suffer from that that have no idea that that's all that is.

They think that they got fat or they did something wrong. It's just like, yeah, you just you you ate something that your body and and you maybe you don't have crippling gut issues like you had before, but it's enough for your body to get inflamed, retain water. You're a big enough, tall enough person, you I mean, that could be pounds of water. of water. of water. I could fluctuate 10 pounds of water. Yes. Yes. Yes. No problem. No problem. No problem. Yes. No problem. And so you I mean, obviously you're a big guy.

So put that in perspective of a 130 lb girl. I mean Yeah. 5 lbs. She can go up and and then and when you look puffy to the average eye, that looks fat. You look fat. It's like And so I've held water to the point where I was 8% body fat, but I didn't have abs. Yeah. No, me too. Because of water. Yes. Cuz I ate a bunch of% cuz gluten will do that for me for sure. I ate gluten and I'm going to hold water.

I also feel like when you do stuff too, you get thirstier. So you're pounding more water and you're drinking more. So that just retains more. And you know the cool the crazy thing about because I had this convers, you know, we had we got out of the holidays. cuz I was hanging out with my family and we were all talking about, you know, health and nutrition and then we it got to the topic of parasites and one of my family members like, "Yeah, but that's like, you know, third world countries." I'm like, "Yeah, they get parasites much more often than we do.

It's much more rare in, you know, first world uh, you know, areas. However, if you're, you know, an adult and you've never treated yourself for parasites ever and you eat raw vegetables, salad, sushi, Yeah. There's a decent chance you were exposed to parasites over the course of, you know, your life. So, So, So, no, they live in you, dude. They live in you and they just grow and they chill, you know, you know, you know, houses. houses. houses. Yeah. You know, we were talking about workouts earlier and uh, you know, there's there's, you know, genetics make a big difference in many different directions, right?

You have genetics for intelligence, you have genetics for athletic ability, you also have genetics for just capacity. And I I ran across. So Rocky Marciano is one of my favorite fighters of all time. That's weird. I would never get that. Just kid has nothing to do with he's Italian, right? Italian, right? Italian, right? Listen, it started because he was a time. But I also like I love watching old uh fight films. One of my favorite things. I love watching old fight films. And they're all so different.

Uh the way the fighters used to fight. And Marciano had this relentless attack. He the we the way he beat people was he would just it was like the the 10th round was like the first round he was just on you constantly. Wasn't he wasn't his nickname the raging bull was bull was bull was No that was um Lamato. Oh that's Jack. Okay. So Marciano was just relentless. He was just on you stuck on you. You couldn't get him off you and he would punch everything and one of his he knew he would outlast you so he hit you in the arms and make your arms dead and then he'd kill you.

Right. He was just and people would talk and I watch these old fights and bro you look at this guy you're like he's just doesn't get tired he just beats the he just comes after him the whole time. So I came across his his workout regimen when he was in camp. So this is when he's getting ready for a fight. Seven days a week. You guys want to know what he did? Let's hear it. Se this is every day. Every day he would probably kill your average person.

In the morning he would wake up and run 10 miles. Then he'd go to the gym and he'd spar 30 to 40 rounds. What? What? What? Then in the evening he would run 5 miles and he would swim two miles. Now every day he took a nap and every night he would get uh close to 10 hours of sleep. of sleep. of sleep. But that's what he did seven days a week. So no wonder when he was in a match like match like match like this is a piece of cake.

Yeah, dude. I'm going to keep going. That's so insane. Never stopped. Never stopped. Never stopped. That's crazy. That's crazy. That's crazy. I know. I read that I'm like that is brutal. So he was a small heavyweight. You know what I always think is interesting when you see like like the these these genetic anomalies, these people that handled all that that trained at that volume. So that and then how much science has evolved today. It's like what if you gave that guy red light therapy, the perfect balance of volume and intensity like the right supplements, the right first off he would be too small to fight as a heavy.

He was 180 pounds if I'm not mistaken. mistaken. mistaken. By the way, one of the reasons why boxers boxers boxers he was only 180. He thought he was 180 185. maybe short. He was just boxer. I mean, remember this is back. Didn't look Yeah, but he still looked he looks he looks thick in his pictures. He didn't look like look like look like if you saw him off Yeah. off training. So, in those days, uh and you still see boxers do this now, but he would gain like 50 lbs.

Cuz when he was done training, he was like, I'm just going to enjoy myself. Yeah. Well, I imagine that that crazy of intensity in a camp, you're just Yeah, dude. Yeah. 188 pounds. There he is right there. So, not a big dude for a heavyweight, you know, because now you got heavyweights 220, 230. Yeah, dude. You guys should watch some of his fights. It was just I remember a list like this was MMA, but I remember Kane Velasquez was like famous for his like ridiculous gas.

Yeah, just the motor and and that's a fighter you just don't want to fight. Like they're just going to keep going relentlessly. They have no like I need to get some rest or catch my breath. That's also the other heavyweight who's a local guy that uh over here. He's local heavyweight that it was known for. Yeah. DC. His gas tank was Well, he's a Yeah. world class world class wrestler. class wrestler. class wrestler. But he doesn't What's crazy what I Yeah. Him and Kane, they're not shredding.

shredding. shredding. Yeah, but they both train together. Him. He doesn't he doesn't look like he would he would take you deep into Yeah. No, he'll he'll give you some I met him a couple times in person. Yeah. Yeah. I know. It's It's crazy how like he he just dominated everybody. I mean, except for Jon Jones, but Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, it's uh I remember back so way back, I've told the story before, but um uh a friend of mine was a uh one of the top level competitors as a in the UFC as a middleweight and he was getting ready to fight and at this time I was at my peak fitness or whatever.

Now, I was nowhere near his level, but we were friends and he's like, "Hey, can you come? We're going to do round robin. I need a bigger guy. I was bigger than him to come roll with and there's going to be four of us round robin." And it were all pro fighters. Yeah. Okay. And me. Yeah. me. Yeah. me. Yeah. So, I'm in there and now it was pure grappling. grappling. grappling. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I'm I'm decent. I'm a purple bell. I'm decent. I'm not like the greatest or whatever, but I'm okay and I'm strong, all that stuff.

The difference between with those guys uh and me was they were so relentless. They were stuck on me the whole time. It was like I couldn't get them off and then I gassed. I just couldn't handle that that intensity of just on you, on you. That's what they talk when they talk about a fighter's heart. That's what they're talking about is their gas tank. Cuz you lose your gas tank, heart goes out the window. Well, you always, you know, you always see that. I don't know how much you guys follow the UFC, but they do the um what's the slipping me right now, the show that Dana does where it's like the to get the guys on the show.

It's another contender, but it's another another another another something like I can't I don't know what Ultimate Fighter. Ultimate Fighter. Ultimate Fighter. So, the the Ultimate Fighter and they only go like two uh two or three rounds. And normally the guy the guys that end up making it and go beyond are just the guys that could go three rounds with with with like full on three rounds. Most of the guys you see after round two are just because they gave it all they got for two rounds and they don't have it.

And the guy who who can just can stay on it for three rounds. You know how annoying it is when you when you've done this and you're sitting and watching a fight and you hear some dude over there just go just punch him, dude. Just go, bro. Go wrestle your buddy for two minutes. Just go wrestle full speed for two minutes. Tell me how you feel. Try lift your arms after that. Yeah, there's a real It's super hard. There's a real art to that. Anyways, uh speaking of fighting, I was we were talking off air.

I thought this would be funny to bring up. I just as we were talking, I don't know why I remembered in when I was a kid the some of the things that we would do. We didn't have tech. So, we'd come up with ways of having fun and we talked about pencil fighting. pencil fighting. pencil fighting. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Does anybody do that anymore? That's right. That's right. That's right. I don't know. I don't think it's a thing anymore. anymore. anymore. Pencil fighting.

You have Did you guys ever pencil fight where you Dylan's like he has no idea what this Okay. So, you know what pencil fighting was? You get a pencil. Doug, did you know anyone pencil fighting? fighting? fighting? I think we did it, but not to the seriousness. It was it was it was so serious. serious. serious. Dude, this was like bragging. This goes all the way back to like third, fourth, fifth grade. I can Yeah, I could Yeah, I can think elementary school this and uh I mean the principal's office must have made a fortune cuz they had this they had they had they had a a pencil machine and it was a quarter, but it was the good thick thick pencils, not them cheap number two.

Were those ones that were made out they seem like they were made out of like plastic? plastic? plastic? They were hard. They were hard, right? And they were but they were 25 cents and they were decorated all cool. You didn't know what you got. You put the quarter in, you turn it, come out. The ones that were super cylindrical, done done done the hexagon. the hexagon. the hexagon. And then and then uh you know was such a big deal if my parents let me have a quarter for that day so I could get a new pencil.

And that was like you come you come to class and you know and you said it earlier, you you you take you rip the eraser off and you you flatten the metal part. Yeah. You bite it. You bite it down with your teeth to get it real nice and sharp. And then then you have you had the move where you you wrap it around the knuckles. It's so funny. There's so many techniques to because what you do some some guys were like this, some guys were like this, you know, I was this one.

Yeah. So, but it's so funny that that was a thing and I'm like, "Oh my god, you get a crowd watching." Oh, yeah. Yeah. It was a big deal. All the kids would circle around in the chairs. chairs. chairs. So, so Dylan, the way it worked is you would hold your pencil like this and I would hit yours and then it was your turn turn turn and whoever broke the pencil won. So you just go back and forth until and the really good dudes if you knew what you were doing.

It was first shot, one shot, you break the pencil. That was a good Do you guys remember making uh I don't know what you I don't even think we had a name for him, but you would fold paper into like a bullet and you'd hit you use rubber bands. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Detention for that one. Yeah, those taught my son. Those hurt. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I like the little football game too with the uh triangle football triangle football paper. Yeah.

With the field goal post. Those I mean you dude you get so bored. I mean it was that was school for me. That was all of school for me. I learned everything else after that. Yeah. Ask me ask me what I learned after pencil fighting that morning. You know what I'm saying? I knew all that stuff. Dude. So, it's so interesting though the uh I mean obviously as a kid you don't ever think of that but like the value of that creativity the ability to come up with these games and these ideas science science science and entertain yourself.

Well, it's it's it's it's a wonder why we have such a hard time with these especially both girls and boys, but especially young boys um that aren't doing any of these things when they get to go home, they get to be on these video games and iPads like crazy and then they got to sit in these classrooms where they don't do any of this stuff. It's like you can't compare. There's no there's How can you come up with How can you come up with anything that's as entertaining as your video camera?

That's what I mean. It's just like Dolby surround sound. Yeah, pencil fighting sucks, dude. That's what I mean is like you you we've we've overstimulated them so much so much with tech and then we uh asked them to go sit in a classroom for 7 hours and 8 hours a day. Well, I had this thought the other day cuz my my kids, my little one, my my four-year-old will come up to me and be like, I'm bored. Do you know I never told my parents I was bored?

Because if I did, what would Oh my god. What would your mom say? Oh yes. Oh, I got something for you to do. Go fold some laundry. Oh, here. Go clean this. Go dig a hole outside. Yeah, go outside. My go outside. Figure it out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Go outside. Go outside. Go outside. Yeah. Are kids going to invent anything now? now? now? Well, I mean, this is a real question. Well, they're AI friendly. Well, the counter is that you have these They're doing it with the Yeah.

these young kids that are entrepreneurs that are that are doing stuff that is is way beyond what we're doing. I mean, there's there's kids now that know how to use all these prompts way better than any of us in this room right now. Yeah. Sure. And so it, you know, the the positive side is some of them are are focusing the energy in that direction, but I'd still make the argument it's still really tough for those those same kids. kids. kids. Yeah. But aren't those Yeah.

Okay. So improvements, I guess, an innovative new thing. thing. thing. Yeah. Well, I mean, you could say innovative and new as far as creating businesses. I mean, these I mean, listen. listen. listen. Yeah. No, I know you can make the argument for argument for argument for the original inspiration. So when I tell the story about Mind Pump before I knew you guys and knew it was going to be Mind Pump was I was playing basketball with a 22year-old kid. Now I was doing medical marijuana so I had the cash flow to come in and out of the gym but I was playing basketball with a kid at 22 years old at at 2:00 in the afternoon on Tuesday and he had nice sneakers, drove a nice car, went to church so I knew he was a good kid so I didn't think he was doing anything shady to be able to and I'm like how are you doing this?

Yeah. And he had built a following on on uh Facebook of 10,000 people and was flipping sneakers and making and making a good living. And so I mean I don't know if it's that so much. It's more like Okay, I've noticed this with Doug. Doug's a good example cuz we didn't grow up with tech, but we definitely use it used it more than Doug did cuz he's an even different generation. You guys ever notice we go to the airport or somewhere and we're sitting there, we got nothing to do.

He's the last one to be on his phone the whole time. He can sit there know how to use it. I just figured you have to turn it over. He's like He still has to figure out how to turn it on. He's got He's got a jingle bug phone. What's that one phone for old people with the bigger the big the big buttons? It's just buttons. He's just got big buttons on buttons on it. He didn't even Hey, if he knew he could watch TV on his phone, you know you could do that, Doug.

You can watch TV. I know exactly what you're talking about, dude. about, dude. about, dude. But no, you know what I mean. Like the they're okay with sitting there. They're okay with sitting there and being chill, calm. Yeah. I guess my only point is that the boredom factor like the the deprivation of stimulus, the figure the [ __ ] out without anybody's influence. Like that. That's what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about building off of everybody else's ideas. Are there is there value to daydreaming? Yeah, dude.

Does anybody daydream anymore? anymore? anymore? Just think differently. thinking differently than everything that uh is thrown at us. Yeah. I used to write stories cuz I was bored. So, I would just write and create stories, you know. Yeah. But you can't blame them for evolving and adapting to the new times. Of course. Of course. Of course. Your your your dad would be like, "Well, I would have went out and helped my dad build a fence. I didn't have anything to do. I only had a wheel to play with." a I only had a wheel to play with." My dad used to say, "I used to have a stick and a wheel." My dad's like, "I had a stick and a wheel.

I'd do that for two hours. was born and then go build a fence for your for you know what I'm saying like they would go do something productive like so I mean the generation before would do something like that that we so you you adapt to what and so listen I I if you look up the there's interesting stats I mean uh like on young millionaires and the kids that are buying the supercar like it's kids like the average age of someone who who owned a Ferrari used to be like 55 or something like that you know it's like 35 now and it's and it's because these these kids are figuring out how to make money while they sleep and all.

I get it. No, the money part I understand. Uh that's not everything, but I get it. But I'll read you guys a stat. In fact, I I posted this today on my ex, so I got to pull this up, but this is an interesting stat, right? There was a a a Morgan Stanley analysis that predicted by 2030, it's around the corner, it's like in four years, 45% almost half of US women between 25 to 44 will be single and without children. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Almost half.

And so I think what's what was Well, okay, compare that to what what it Oh, God. That was in history. in history. in history. Oh, 10%. Really? 5%. Yeah, dude. Almost half. Yeah. So now what's happening is we've gotten really good at like like oh what I want and I don't want responsibility and I'll think I'll make money and I want a career and I want to be able to go on those vacations and I want to be able to enjoy myself. Every you know self focus, self-focus, selffocus and so you basically are are what what we're developing are a bunch of middle-aged children with no responsibility and the ramification.

Well, of course we can talk about societal ramifications, right? Depopulation that's going to collapse. how are we going to support ourselves? But it's like you ask these people, especially for women, right? Because they they'll reach an age they can't have kids anymore. Majority of them who don't, it was not voluntary. It was because they waited so long and they became too late. late. late. Uh there there are terrible ramifications of that because we're also more depressed, more anxious, and more unhappy. unhappy. unhappy. And I think a big part of that is we don't we're skirting responsibility and we're kind of going down the hedonistic road.

And a big part of that is like I don't want the responsibility. I don't want the responsibility of like I don't want nobody to tell me what to do and I don't want to have to not be able to go whenever I want, you know, wherever I want. So that's the thing I'm worried about. Not the money part. I'm not worried about people. It's all connected to the money part too though when you talk about what you're talking about right now because the whole we were sold a lie.

Especially women were sold a lie in particular to what you're talking about right now. So, I just watched a Jordan Peterson clip that talked about how women looking for men uh their their financial status and success is is one of the highest predictors of the ma man's success of finding a mate. So, it's a it's highly valued with whether whether a woman agrees or not that that's like her number one or it's it's a it's a one of the highest predictors of like a man will have a part find a partner is his is how much money and status in relation to everybody else.

So the the more successful he is, the the higher chance he is to finding a mate and a partner. The reverse is not true. Yeah. No Yeah. No Yeah. No it does. It is a zero predictor for for the the woman to find a So if you have all these women that are going down the same path as a man trying to reach this these higher not only that but women date across and up. Men won't do. Men are across and down many times. So they don't want necessarily a woman that's that's high higher or makes more.

Yes. There's always exceptions to rule. So everybody gets offended by that that has the wife that makes more money. It's like yeah there's but for generally speaking speaking speaking generalities generalities generalities that's not what happens. I mean I see it in in my own family. It's it's tough because they they they come from a matriarch and so a lot of the girls are very smart, very successful, very beautiful and just struggle to find partners because you work so hard like that you can't. They're probably at the point now if they're starting to get to their 30s where they're like, "Uh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I this sucks." No, they're at mid-30s and they and they realize how much but it didn't it took all the way till then to realize how much that sucks.

Me, they were so focused on growing financially and making more money and being more successful. Then they reached that that that point and realize like and then and then you got to remember too because they put that much work in, they now also shrink what they're willing to go for. She's not like I listen I can go 35 years make all this money work my ass off get to this level and you know their tolerance their tolerance their tolerance and I'm not gonna I'm not going to date the guy who's like you know kind of getting by in life like that she wants that or above and that or above is and then the other part of that is too is that you're 33 you've achieved the success you're ready to go like I want kids now you're now the clock's ticking I got to find a guy develop a relationship get serious and then be able to have two kids you got like three years years years guys don't respond well to that no intensity is not well doesn't received well received well received well and definitely not the ones that are at that level or a month I saw this discussion I thought it was so good there was a problem these these women that were talking to each other one was stay-at-home mom she had I don't know how many kids another one was like career woman and the career woman looked at the the other woman the the stay-at-home and she's like you know you you so you serve your husband you go home and just do what he said and she goes well yeah what do you do when your b what do you do when your boss tells you to do something, you're still is he a man, by the way?

No, you're serving a guy, too. Except mine's my husband and this is my family. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, talk about like a like a a lie that a lot of people have been fed. Yeah. You know, that one is, you know, that this is the path to that's more important to happiness, dude. Well, and again, by the way, this, by the way, it's funny because you look at the data. Guys are figuring this out. They did this huge survey with Gen Z men, young men, and they listed the things that they how they would consider themselves successful in life.

You know what number one was for the guys? This was shocking to me. This is never guys typically don't talk like this. Getting married and having kids. Really? Really? Really? Yes. Yes. Yes. Really? Really? Really? Yes. Getting married, having kids was one and two for them to be for them to consider themselves uh successful at life. Interesting. Interesting. Interesting. I know. Oh, I mean I would say that's different than even back in the days cuz still back in the days you would still say say say well I think back in the days it was assumed that well if I get a good job and I'm but these guys were like no no if I find if I get a wife and I have like three kids then I'm I think I'm doing really well.

That's definitely shifted. Yeah, that's a big shift. That's interesting. interesting. interesting. I know. Isn't that cool? It's interesting to me. But it's like um yeah I you know I communicate this to my kids uh because I think I don't you don't need to tell a kid uh to you know get a good career and make good money. I don't think you need to sell that. Everybody sells that to them. I think you need to sell the other stuff because the other stuff isn't really talked about.

I even think it's it's talked down to as like it's a bad thing. Yeah. which uh yeah it's not that's interesting because I have a I have a different perspective of that because I felt like my my mom sold that so hard to the kids because she was so young to get married and do that that I feel like that's my I had my siblings were like in such a hurry to just do that. So I don't know I think there's a there's a balance of there's a balance of Yeah you're a different situation though bro you grew up I know rough you had really really really I think everybody grows up rough.

It's just different brother, you know. Yeah, I know that's you being humble, but you everybody's got you're you're an anomaly for sure. The way you turned out, I feel I feel like everybody's got that. I mean, yeah. One of one of the the things that forever shifted that for me is that everybody's trauma, tragic, hard, is the hardest thing that they ever experienced. Therefore, the way they experience is no different than the way I experience it. Okay. Okay. Okay. So, So, So, sure. sure. sure. So, like that's you have to like you have have have that's you being humble, dude.

Well, thank you. Whatever. But that's that's it's true. It's like whatever there's stuff that you've been through in your life that has brought you to tears, knees, scared, hard, all this like that. Me too, Me too, Me too, they were different things. But for me, for me, it was hard. But for it, it was the hardest thing you've ever experienced your life. For me, it was the hardest thing you ever experience life. So, I mean, I think the the ability to overcome, work through all those things, uh, the to get through that the it's it's it's tough for everybody.

You know what I'm saying? Speaking of tough, I'm going to go back to a previous conversation about hitting protein. Uh we have we have uh a sponsor in this episode and it's actually a great segue to the previous conversation. The meat sticks from Paleo Valley about 8 g of you know if you if you snacked on those and have like four. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's 30 30 g. Not just that. The other thing I love about Paleo Valley is actually the and you're the one that pushed me forever to get on it cuz I've never been a fan of like I've always been a whey protein person.

But what I love about the bone broth protein is that I can push the grams of protein. I can go up to a 50 60 any upset stomach stuff. No, it's actually helps. actually helps. actually helps. As much as I love whey, I start going beyond 40 50 gram of whey in one sitting or I take and I mix it with milk or something like that and it it'll it'll upset my stomach, right? Where the bone broth, man, I've I've done crazy like four or five scoops of that stuff and it and it's so th it mixes so well.

So then thin it doesn't make this like cakey shake. And so for somebody who struggles to hit protein and and wants like a really high protein is you can put several of those in there. Well, bone broth is uh a protein that's recommended for uh to improve gut health. So if you go to a functional medicine practitioner unless you have issues with histamine um and they'll recommend you take uh bone broth protein because of the high amounts of amino acids that actually help rebuild the gut.

So it's a it's a pro gut health one whereas other shakes I'm like you like I go push it too hard. Well everybody I think now do they actually have different amino acids than like a higher amounts of cyine and I can't remember the other one but these are amino acids that build collagen. Oh interesting. I I just assume that because whey and all the studies is always shown to be like the best for building muscle that that it had the highest like amino acids. No.

So weey is really high in branch chain amino acids really high in light and leucine isolucine veene. Yes. Bone broth is high in amino acids that are used to build interest the the integrity of your gut wall collagen. Uh it helps with the the junctions in the gut, so it helps seal them. So it's like a pro gut health protein. Oh, that's interesting. I didn't know that. that. that. Yep. Yep. Yep. There's a fatty acid called C15. It's found in dairy. If you take a decent amount of it, you get lowered inflammation, better cognitive function, enhanced fat loss.

Look, I noticed the difference. I started using Fatty 15. That company uses the C-15 fatty acid and I noticed dramatically reduced inflammation. No, this is not fish oil. It's not an omega-3. I take that as well, but I noticed a huge difference from C15. Look up the data yourself. It's incredible. Fatty 15 is the best source of this particular fatty acid. Go check them out. Go to fatty15.com. That's fatty.commindpump. on that link, you'll get a discount, but you got to use the code mind pump. Back to the show.

This segment of the podcast is brought to you by Mindpump Fitness Coaching. This is the number one course that teaches trainers and coaches how to build sustainable sixf figureure plus businesses and careers in fitness. Look, it's roundt based. So you can hear Adam, Justin, and myself teaching you how to build a better business, get more leads, close more deals, close bigger deals, and be more effective trainers. By the way, our course is nationally recognized. In fact, it gives you 1.9 CEUs with or for your NASM certification.

Find out more at mindpunfitnesscoaching.com. First question is from Burke himself. Do you guys have any thoughts on buttwink when squatting? I've heard that it's really not a concern. This is uh we've addressed this a handful of times, but it's been a long time since we talked about it and I like us discuss it because it's um there is controversy online. you you depending on and from both highly intelligent uh uh coaches and trainers and and that just shows you that there there's there's exceptions to the rule.

Um there is a version of the buttwink that I think can be dangerous and bad and then there's a version of it that's totally safe and okay. So for people aren't familiar with what this is, right? You watch someone from the side going down in a squat and towards the bottom they'll their tailbone will tuck a little bit and then come up. So they call that butt wink. Generally speaking, I don't like the typical person or client that I'm training to have lots of l lumbar movement uh with a squat.

So, generally speaking, if I see something like that, I'm trying to limit the range of motion, figuring out areas that are tight, strengthening their core, stabilize, work on technique, etc., etc. Generally speaking, I would prefer the spine to stay stable. Now, here's where the controversy comes from. the best squatters in the world, uh, Olympic lifters who get at the, they all buttwink at the bottom. And nobody gets hurt. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, there's a difference between a high, highly trained, strong, stable, you know, great technique individual and then the average person.

The average person, especially if you're a beginner, when you get bunk butt wink, what happens is your lumbar spine goes to its end range of motion and then what's supporting the bottom is your discs. Yeah. What happens to an Olympic lifter is because there is some lumbar movement. movement. movement. Olympic lifter is not relying on the disc. They're still strong. They're still supporting the weight. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's why there's no issue. They also bounce at the bottom which you're not supposed to. Well, if you if you took a um if you actually took a skeleton or would do this on an X-ray so you could see this.

Somebody who goes true a grass will have will have that natural tilt. It happens. It's part of the anatomy for your ability to go all the way down there. can't you can't maintain the hips out this way and get full full once you get your ass down on your ankles. It'll it'll it'll slightly come down like that. And so and and someone who that doesn't have any pain and gets that deep in a squat and they don't stability. stability. stability. Yeah. And then and I and I'm coaching them and I'm talking to them and I'm like, "Your low back bothering anything?" And they don't have any signs of that.

of that. of that. But somebody that's like, "Oh man, my low back is always on fire." And they have this buttwink. and it happens typically sooner than the very bottom of the squat. They have a lot of movement in that low back, then then yeah, then it can become a dangerous unhealthy thing and and it needs to be addressed. The only real problem with it is the lack of stability and strength uh as you know they're going through that portion of of that range of motion.

And it's like if you don't have like proper bracing technique and you can't like control and you're you're allowing it that load to rest on the discs and like just anywhere else like in these complex compound movements it's like you know if you don't take the time to really reinforce that brace and and have protective ability with that then yeah it's going to be dangerous. I would say to the average person cuz the problem with a lot sometimes with the advice uh that you'll hear from you know people on social media even people who are smart biomechanic experts or whatever they'll give advice uh based off of what uh people who have who are well really skilled strong and stable can do.

Like for example, you'll hear high level strength athletes say things like, "You don't need to prime, just warm up with the exercise itself." It's like, "Well, yeah, but if you watch doesn't know how to do that." Yeah. You watch a skilled bench presser prime like bench press, they're priming properly. The average person doesn't know how to activate their lats and and depress their scapula properly while they're warming up. So, you got to do other priming movements for that person. For the average person, when I'm training someone, I don't necessarily want a buttwink.

I I I I I if I see it, I'm like, "Okay, I'm addressing something." something." something." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you're like advanced or lift, you know, you're if I see a advanced lifter with a butt wink and they're stable and strong, that's not an issue. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. New new new lifter, you're going to pause. We're going to we're going to work on making sure that everything is controlled and braced and accounted for. But most people that have this, especially new lifters, they'll they'll feel their erector spin.

They'll the low back muscles will Yeah. will fatigue and light up. I had this. So, I had I had an excessive buttwink when I first started. And a lot of that just had to do to Justin's point. I didn't I wasn't bracing my core properly. I didn't have proper mobility and stability in my hips and my ankles. ankles. ankles. And once I got good hip and ankle mobility and and stability, good core bracing uh went away completely. But there was a time when I used to do a set of back squats, didn't even barely break parallel, and I had to lay on the floor cuz my low back was was just on fire.

And that's because I had that excessive wink like that. And so, um, yeah. No, you don't you don't necessarily want to see it, but you could also, and that's why there's so much controversy online is because, uh, to your point, some people can get away with it, some people can't. Yeah. Next question is from Emily Victoria. Should rest periods strictly be measured by time or can heart rate be a gauge as well? well? well? So, yeah, it's a good question. Both. So, if you take someone with incredible, so I'll paint a scenario, right?

You have someone with incredible stamina, really high V2 max, endurance athlete, their heart rate is going to be fine in 15 cover like this. In fact, in fact, a a five rep lift won't even get their heart rate that high. high. high. No. No. And so, were they going to just go again? go again? go again? It's it's both, right? It's you're resting not for the heart rate to come down as much as you are for the ATP and AP ATP to replenish in the muscles because you're training a strength pathway, not an endurance pathway.

Y so now here's why it can be both. If you're deconditioned and or you do a set of 20 reps in a barbell squat and 3 minutes is up but you're still huffing. Yeah, wait longer. Your heart rate needs to come down. I'm glad it's easy to ruin your performance. This most likely is from I'm glad somebody asked it this way so we could address this because this is exactly what keeps these uh clients in this kind of circuit training uh you know uh like way of training because they've they've built their stamina up so well that they're sitting there for 30 seconds and they're like my heart rate's already down.

I'm ready to go. I'm good. And it's like no it's not just your heart rate that I'm concerned about. Like so time time matters here. time. This is not the per I don't think the person who's asking this is the person who's doing a set and they're still gassed after a three-minute rest. They're wonder if they should do longer. This is somebody who's like, "I'm ready to go after 30 seconds. So, is my rest?" These are clients are like, "I don't need to rest." That's right.

Yes, you do. You want to build muscle. You want to build strength. Especially if you ask a question like this and you feel like you're ready to go after 30 seconds, you're going to benefit a lot by resting for the last three minutes. The rest periods are what make it strength training more than almost anything else. It's the rest periods that put the heart rate put you in a different energy. different energy. different energy. It's not the heart rate. You take someone like a Lance Armstrong who his heart rate is resting heart rate 30 and then maybe after a set of bicep curls it gets to 40 saying is lower like it has nothing to do with that.

It has everything to do with you the the time. So let yourself rest. Next question is from El Byron. Will taking creatine with or close to the consumption of caffeine make it ineffective? ineffective? ineffective? No, that's fine. And so the data there was a study. Yeah, there was a study that was done about that a while ago that showed maybe reduced absorption or efficacy of creatine. Even if you go back based off I hope not. I've been doing that forever. forever. forever. Even even if you go based off that study, I think it was back in 96 I think it was with the study.

Uh if you go if even if you base it off that it's not that much to make a difference. Now, there's been lots of studies done on this and the evidence that there's any interference is weak at best. Even though, Even though, Even though, okay, okay, okay, even if it was a weak uh even if there was a slight interference, it's not enough enough enough for you to worry. Uh in other words, if you're like, "Yeah, but that's when I remember to take my creatine," then keep doing it.

If if you're like, "You want to split hairs five times in a row, then fine, separate it from the time you take creatine." But there's they've done lots of studies on this when we were kids uh back in Celtech phosphate inj um there was there was a rumor there was there was a rumor or theory that uh orange juice the citric acid from orange juice impacted the intake of that if you leave you remember that. Yeah. If you leave powdered creatine in uh something acidic for a long time it could degrade a bit.

Yeah. Because of the acid. the acid. the acid. Yeah. You could even do in water. You leave creatine in water for anything. Yeah. Really. So you just want to take it. So that makes sense why maybe this question is being asked then too because then there are I believe Bang Energy does this and I believe there's acidity in those energy drinks and so creatine inside of a energy drink. I I don't I I'll tell you straight up and maybe someone can prove me wrong, but I don't take creatine in liquid form ever.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Unless it's like you know liposomaal delivery process which is like a cream that you could taste the grittiness of the creatine the creatine the creatine and so it's stable. But if something looks clear and it says it's got creatine in it, definitely I don't believe it. believe it. believe it. Yeah. And definitely if you have uh what's that called? We have bubbles where it's like uh carbonation carbonation in it. It's like yeah, come on. You you have you're trying to tell me that it's not going to degrade somewhat of the amount that you use.

Years ago, this was this had to be uh in the early 2000s, late 90s. There was a creatine company that had liquid creative grams of liquid creatine, fastest absorption. cuz you know you could always make a case right if it's in liquid form you'll absorb it faster and uh it was popular for a second and then they did of course there was a third party that tested it zero creatine it was zero usually if creatine's in something you'll feel the grittiness you you'll bite into it or take it and you'll feel the grittiness of the creatine cuz that's that's how I mean this is why this person's asking this is why I'm such a huge fan of like the new stuff with like Legion gummies or organified gummies like do the gummies like if if you have a hard time remembering to take it and stuff like that but They might be asking this because I have seen some of these energy drinks starting to put and I would not trust that.

trust that. trust that. No. Yo. Yeah. Just don't count that creatine. Consider that. But yeah, I wouldn't a million years like count that as Next question is from Chelsea Wely. The front of my hips are perpetually sore lately. I foam roll and stretch not as much as I should. Any other tips to help? help? help? Yeah, mobility and priming. So, it's hard to know what the issue is because I don't I can't see you move living them 9090s. I don't know, you know, exactly what you mean by the front of your hips.

I don't know what movements cause hip flexor. I don't know. Sometimes I'm so glad you said that, Justin. There's I I this actually happened to me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A few times. Uh nine out of 10 times when you work with somebody, uh you don't directly try to strengthen their hip flexors. Uh they'll get some some strength by doing ab exercises there. It's not something I need to focus on, but there have been cases where I had I had this I remember this young lady I trained and we would squat and she'd get pinching in the front of her hips.

Yes. Yes. Yes. And I'm like, what is going on? It took me a long time. It's weak, right? And it was weak hip flexors. Yeah. I've had the same thing. We had to do single leg leg raises like a pure hip flexor exercise took care of it. But it's hard to know without watching you move what the issue is. But there's an there's a a strength imbalance going on. And a good assessment uh with a good trainer, a good, you know, movement specialist. Typically, if foam rolling and stretching isn't really impacting it on some level, there's probably a strength issue.

issue. issue. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, 100%. Well, this is what I mean, this is why I love all the 9090 variations because you're going to get some of that in that. I mean, you're going to do if you're doing 9090s with the heel lift up off the ground and Yeah. and you're activating like um for me that's done. I know you guys have talked about this before where we've had some people actually strengthening the hip flexors where I could see as a possibility, but that's rare.

It's normally somebody who just has really weak and instable hips. And if you just if you work on hip mobility and strengthening it and activating it while you're in 9090s tends to address a lot. If you're listening right now, uh, get Maps Prime Pro uh, and do the hip movements in there and you'll find the one that helps. You'll know because you'll do it, you'll feel better. Test them all out. Yeah. And then that's where I would, so I would first go to all the 99.

I think that's what where 90% of the people fall. If none of that is working or you're listening to this and you're like, I've been doing that and I saw this issue, then maybe it is a hip flex weakness. And then after you can even do the free one that you did uh Adam when you did some hip stuff and there was it primeproinar. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, primeproeinar.com primeproeinar.com primeproeinar.com and that that go through that and Adam does a whole he does everything in there. Just do the hip stuff and then go try your exercise.

See if it makes a difference. And if it does, you've got the answer right there. All right. I know you like that episode. If you did, check this one out. How strong should you be? Ever wonder if you're actually strong or at least compared to people like yourself? Today's episode, we're going to talk about that and we're going to help you determine how strong you should be and also talk about the steps to getting strong as fast as possible. In fact, we're going to talk about the fastest way to get bigger and stronger all at the same time.

Say Adam look at night. night. night. I Yes, it does actually. And I know that you wrote a really complex episode here, but I think Justin's metric has been the