The Simple Way to Create More Luck, Friends, and Opportunity

And I could only lose three million And I could only lose three million bucks. I could gain 300 million bucks. >> All right, Chil, what's up, dude? >> All right, Chil, what's up, dude? >> Not much, man. Doing well, >> Not much, man. Doing well, >> Not much, man. Doing well, >> dude. Always good having you on. You >> dude. Always good having you on. You >> dude. Always good having you on. You are, as always, I give you this title, are, as always, I give you this title, are, as always, I give you this title, the most interesting man in tech. You're the most interesting man in tech. You're the most interesting man in tech. You're you're a great investor. You're a tech you're a great investor. You're a tech you're a great investor. You're a tech investor. How big is the fund or how investor. How big is the fund or how investor. How big is the fund or how much total have you you invested now at much total have you you invested now at much total have you you invested now at this point? this point? this point? >> Um, about $450 million total. >> Um, about $450 million total. >> Um, about $450 million total. >> Okay. $450 million. So like you know >> Okay. $450 million. So like you know >> Okay. $450 million. So like you know I've learned a lot from poker right and I've learned a lot from poker right and I've learned a lot from poker right and in poker that you've learned all these in poker that you've learned all these in poker that you've learned all these lessons that actually like cross apply lessons that actually like cross apply lessons that actually like cross apply totally outside the do domain of poker. totally outside the do domain of poker. totally outside the do domain of poker. What would you say are the lessons from What would you say are the lessons from What would you say are the lessons from investing that apply to life? I think investing that apply to life? I think investing that apply to life? I think you know one you know one you know one is just like upside can be greater than is just like upside can be greater than is just like upside can be greater than downside like so if I invest in a downside like so if I invest in a downside like so if I invest in a company let's say I put $3 million into company let's say I put $3 million into company let's say I put $3 million into a company there's a possibility of it a company there's a possibility of it a company there's a possibility of it being $300 million but the downside is being $300 million but the downside is being $300 million but the downside is capped at 3 million I could only lose capped at 3 million I could only lose capped at 3 million I could only lose three million bucks I could gain 300 300 three million bucks I could gain 300 300 three million bucks I could gain 300 300 million bucks million bucks million bucks >> yeah cuz if you don't work in uh >> yeah cuz if you don't work in uh >> yeah cuz if you don't work in uh investing or anywhere where you have investing or anywhere where you have investing or anywhere where you have that sort of asymmetric risk versus that sort of asymmetric risk versus that sort of asymmetric risk versus return. Let's just say you have a hourly return. Let's just say you have a hourly return. Let's just say you have a hourly wage job, right? Like you're sort of wage job, right? Like you're sort of wage job, right? Like you're sort of your mind gets trained into this linear. your mind gets trained into this linear. your mind gets trained into this linear. I put one in, I get one out, right? Like I put one in, I get one out, right? Like I put one in, I get one out, right? Like I can't put one in and get 50 hours of I can't put one in and get 50 hours of I can't put one in and get 50 hours of pay out of this next hour. That doesn't pay out of this next hour. That doesn't pay out of this next hour. That doesn't really ever happen in a normal job. But really ever happen in a normal job. But really ever happen in a normal job. But if your job is investing, you're like, if your job is investing, you're like, if your job is investing, you're like, of course that happens all the time. I of course that happens all the time. I of course that happens all the time. I lose one times my money, but sometimes I lose one times my money, but sometimes I lose one times my money, but sometimes I gain a 100 or a thousand times my money gain a 100 or a thousand times my money gain a 100 or a thousand times my money back. And that kind of breaks the brain back. And that kind of breaks the brain back. And that kind of breaks the brain and you sort of like start to see you and you sort of like start to see you and you sort of like start to see you know other opportunities similarly that know other opportunities similarly that know other opportunities similarly that have that as the case say the asymmetry have that as the case say the asymmetry have that as the case say the asymmetry of risk return. All right so that's one of risk return. All right so that's one of risk return. All right so that's one there something around portfolio theory there something around portfolio theory there something around portfolio theory like you know out of the 450 million you like you know out of the 450 million you like you know out of the 450 million you deploy right like what does what does deploy right like what does what does deploy right like what does what does winning look like? You probably need to winning look like? You probably need to winning look like? You probably need to return some multiple of that 450 return some multiple of that 450 return some multiple of that 450 million. So what does winning look like million. So what does winning look like million. So what does winning look like for you? You put in 450 what do you need for you? You put in 450 what do you need for you? You put in 450 what do you need to get out for this to be a success? to get out for this to be a success? to get out for this to be a success? >> A couple billion dollars. >> A couple billion dollars. >> A couple billion dollars. >> Couple billion dollars. Let's say two >> Couple billion dollars. Let's say two >> Couple billion dollars. Let's say two billion. Let's just use a rough math. billion. Let's just use a rough math. billion. Let's just use a rough math. >> Let's say it's 500 billion to make math >> Let's say it's 500 billion to make math >> Let's say it's 500 billion to make math easy, easy, easy, >> right? So 500 million, 4x it, that would >> right? So 500 million, 4x it, that would >> right? So 500 million, 4x it, that would be great over some 10-year period. Yeah. be great over some 10-year period. Yeah. be great over some 10-year period. Yeah. Now, Now, Now, >> of that two billion, how many companies >> of that two billion, how many companies >> of that two billion, how many companies would you go into? And of those, like would you go into? And of those, like would you go into? And of those, like how many companies would be responsible how many companies would be responsible how many companies would be responsible for returning all of that money? It's for returning all of that money? It's for returning all of that money? It's only going to be a few, right? Give me only going to be a few, right? Give me only going to be a few, right? Give me the math there. the math there. the math there. >> Yeah. So almost all of the returns are >> Yeah. So almost all of the returns are >> Yeah. So almost all of the returns are going to come from like 10 companies going to come from like 10 companies going to come from like 10 companies >> out of hundreds that we will have >> out of hundreds that we will have >> out of hundreds that we will have invested in. invested in. invested in. >> Correct. >> Correct. >> Correct. >> And so there's something like that in >> And so there's something like that in >> And so there's something like that in life too, right? Whether it's like life too, right? Whether it's like life too, right? Whether it's like people you meet or dating or like people you meet or dating or like people you meet or dating or like there's some portfolio theory, some there's some portfolio theory, some there's some portfolio theory, some power law where the few will drive like power law where the few will drive like power law where the few will drive like all of the joy, the value, the all of the joy, the value, the all of the joy, the value, the relationships, the the opportunities, relationships, the the opportunities, relationships, the the opportunities, whatever, and then you just do the rest whatever, and then you just do the rest whatever, and then you just do the rest because you need a portfolio in order to because you need a portfolio in order to because you need a portfolio in order to find the few that are like the big find the few that are like the big find the few that are like the big outliers. outliers. outliers. >> It's true. And it's also it's also in a >> It's true. And it's also it's also in a >> It's true. And it's also it's also in a related note, there's like if you related note, there's like if you related note, there's like if you increase the surface area of companies increase the surface area of companies increase the surface area of companies you meet, you have the better odds of you meet, you have the better odds of you meet, you have the better odds of finding that one. like would you really finding that one. like would you really finding that one. like would you really know it's going to work? And so in life, know it's going to work? And so in life, know it's going to work? And so in life, I think increasing surface area is good. I think increasing surface area is good. I think increasing surface area is good. Like saying yes to stuff, Like saying yes to stuff, Like saying yes to stuff, >> right? There's a great blog post this >> right? There's a great blog post this >> right? There's a great blog post this guy wrote called Building Your Own guy wrote called Building Your Own guy wrote called Building Your Own Yacht. Have you ever read this blog Yacht. Have you ever read this blog Yacht. Have you ever read this blog post? It's like very obscure. I got this post? It's like very obscure. I got this post? It's like very obscure. I got this from some random Twitter account, The from some random Twitter account, The from some random Twitter account, The Real Estate G6. Sorry, like normally I'd Real Estate G6. Sorry, like normally I'd Real Estate G6. Sorry, like normally I'd be like pretty low expectations, but be like pretty low expectations, but be like pretty low expectations, but this this overd delivered. And so this this overd delivered. And so this this overd delivered. And so basically it argues the following. It basically it argues the following. It basically it argues the following. It says most people in their life, they says most people in their life, they says most people in their life, they don't do anything that compounds, right? don't do anything that compounds, right? don't do anything that compounds, right? Like most people are non-compounders in Like most people are non-compounders in Like most people are non-compounders in general. Okay. So we and then we kind of general. Okay. So we and then we kind of general. Okay. So we and then we kind of know that okay money has this know that okay money has this know that okay money has this compounding thing right? You can compounding thing right? You can compounding thing right? You can compound some interest or rate of return compound some interest or rate of return compound some interest or rate of return 10% a year in the S&P 500 and over every 10% a year in the S&P 500 and over every 10% a year in the S&P 500 and over every 10 years that's going to uh or every 10 years that's going to uh or every 10 years that's going to uh or every seven years that's going to double. seven years that's going to double. seven years that's going to double. Great. So you sort of see compounding Great. So you sort of see compounding Great. So you sort of see compounding financially but everything compounds financially but everything compounds financially but everything compounds including relationships, skills, including relationships, skills, including relationships, skills, knowledge, everything else. And he has knowledge, everything else. And he has knowledge, everything else. And he has this story about building your own this story about building your own this story about building your own yacht. So um let me read this out for yacht. So um let me read this out for yacht. So um let me read this out for you. Okay. said, he goes, "If you aren't you. Okay. said, he goes, "If you aren't you. Okay. said, he goes, "If you aren't familiar, Aristotle Onasses, by the way, familiar, Aristotle Onasses, by the way, familiar, Aristotle Onasses, by the way, this might be a totally fictitious this might be a totally fictitious this might be a totally fictitious person for all I know, but it doesn't person for all I know, but it doesn't person for all I know, but it doesn't matter. The story works either way. Um, matter. The story works either way. Um, matter. The story works either way. Um, he was one of the wealthiest businessmen he was one of the wealthiest businessmen he was one of the wealthiest businessmen of the 20th century. He started off as a of the 20th century. He started off as a of the 20th century. He started off as a tobacco trader and he ends up, you know, tobacco trader and he ends up, you know, tobacco trader and he ends up, you know, being this big shipping magnet, right? being this big shipping magnet, right? being this big shipping magnet, right? So, he's he makes his bones in the So, he's he makes his bones in the So, he's he makes his bones in the shipping industry. He's dating famous shipping industry. He's dating famous shipping industry. He's dating famous actresses. Okay? So, he lives this life, actresses. Okay? So, he lives this life, actresses. Okay? So, he lives this life, but he has this one sort of hack for but he has this one sort of hack for but he has this one sort of hack for relationship building. He called it relationship building. He called it relationship building. He called it building your own yacht. So he basically building your own yacht. So he basically building your own yacht. So he basically talks about how this guy basically his talks about how this guy basically his talks about how this guy basically his one of his investments was this yacht one of his investments was this yacht one of his investments was this yacht which seems just like a splurge purchase which seems just like a splurge purchase which seems just like a splurge purchase like a discretionary purchase but he like a discretionary purchase but he like a discretionary purchase but he argues like think about the power of argues like think about the power of argues like think about the power of having a yacht and he goes the way that having a yacht and he goes the way that having a yacht and he goes the way that humans are wired is like we are very humans are wired is like we are very humans are wired is like we are very suspicious of cold introductions suspicious of cold introductions suspicious of cold introductions strangers on the street people emailing strangers on the street people emailing strangers on the street people emailing you that you don't know but like a warm you that you don't know but like a warm you that you don't know but like a warm introduction or a warm uh relationship introduction or a warm uh relationship introduction or a warm uh relationship is so much you've already bypassed like is so much you've already bypassed like is so much you've already bypassed like 10 hurdles that come from taking 10 hurdles that come from taking 10 hurdles that come from taking somebody from cold to warm and so he somebody from cold to warm and so he somebody from cold to warm and so he argued use these like think about it argued use these like think about it argued use these like think about it this way. If you think about this way. If you think about this way. If you think about relationships, you would want to have uh relationships, you would want to have uh relationships, you would want to have uh if you meet somebody, you want to do if you meet somebody, you want to do if you meet somebody, you want to do business with them or you just want to business with them or you just want to business with them or you just want to socially connect with them, you would socially connect with them, you would socially connect with them, you would want social proof. Like, is this person want social proof. Like, is this person want social proof. Like, is this person cool? Are they legit? Are they friends cool? Are they legit? Are they friends cool? Are they legit? Are they friends with people that I already am friends with people that I already am friends with people that I already am friends with or or respect? And basically, he's with or or respect? And basically, he's with or or respect? And basically, he's like from the moment you step foot on a like from the moment you step foot on a like from the moment you step foot on a yacht, social proof is done, credibility yacht, social proof is done, credibility yacht, social proof is done, credibility is done, and he's like, uh, on top of is done, and he's like, uh, on top of is done, and he's like, uh, on top of that, you enter their frame. Like, you that, you enter their frame. Like, you that, you enter their frame. Like, you are literally on their turf. And from are literally on their turf. And from are literally on their turf. And from the and he's like there's also the law the and he's like there's also the law the and he's like there's also the law of reciprocity which is like if I invite of reciprocity which is like if I invite of reciprocity which is like if I invite you or give you something there's a part you or give you something there's a part you or give you something there's a part of you psychologically that will want to of you psychologically that will want to of you psychologically that will want to reciprocate in return in some way. And reciprocate in return in some way. And reciprocate in return in some way. And often the the law of reciprocity the way often the the law of reciprocity the way often the the law of reciprocity the way it works is like it's not one for one. it works is like it's not one for one. it works is like it's not one for one. So like if I um you know just do you a So like if I um you know just do you a So like if I um you know just do you a quick favor bring you a drink and then I quick favor bring you a drink and then I quick favor bring you a drink and then I ask you for a much bigger ass than the ask you for a much bigger ass than the ask you for a much bigger ass than the drink you're more likely to say yes to drink you're more likely to say yes to drink you're more likely to say yes to it. And so he talks about how in he's it. And so he talks about how in he's it. And so he talks about how in he's like, "Yeah, okay, that works with a like, "Yeah, okay, that works with a like, "Yeah, okay, that works with a yacht." But he's like, "In life, there's yacht." But he's like, "In life, there's yacht." But he's like, "In life, there's actually all these little yachts that actually all these little yachts that actually all these little yachts that you can create that don't cost the same you can create that don't cost the same you can create that don't cost the same amount as a yacht." So, you know, you amount as a yacht." So, you know, you amount as a yacht." So, you know, you host a dinner, right? You create an host a dinner, right? You create an host a dinner, right? You create an event, you um send out, you know, uh event, you um send out, you know, uh event, you um send out, you know, uh free materials, a newsletter, content. free materials, a newsletter, content. free materials, a newsletter, content. Those are all these are all little Those are all these are all little Those are all these are all little yachts that you can create create all yachts that you can create create all yachts that you can create create all this like inbound luck and relationships this like inbound luck and relationships this like inbound luck and relationships and things that can compound because you and things that can compound because you and things that can compound because you create this like asset that you get to create this like asset that you get to create this like asset that you get to use from there on out. So I thought that use from there on out. So I thought that use from there on out. So I thought that was like a very interesting point. I'm was like a very interesting point. I'm was like a very interesting point. I'm curious what that brings up for you. curious what that brings up for you. curious what that brings up for you. >> Totally. And I think like for you guys >> Totally. And I think like for you guys >> Totally. And I think like for you guys the podcast is partially that. the podcast is partially that. the podcast is partially that. >> Yeah. Exactly. Thanks to this >> Yeah. Exactly. Thanks to this >> Yeah. Exactly. Thanks to this conversation, I think I'm gonna I'm conversation, I think I'm gonna I'm conversation, I think I'm gonna I'm gonna start doing more dinner parties gonna start doing more dinner parties gonna start doing more dinner parties because I think it's just like such an because I think it's just like such an because I think it's just like such an easy way you bring people together. Like easy way you bring people together. Like easy way you bring people together. Like also oftentimes I meet somebody and I'm also oftentimes I meet somebody and I'm also oftentimes I meet somebody and I'm like I want to hang out with them again, like I want to hang out with them again, like I want to hang out with them again, but there's no real but there's no real but there's no real >> there's no excuse. >> there's no excuse. >> there's no excuse. >> There's no excuse. But if you just >> There's no excuse. But if you just >> There's no excuse. But if you just invite them over, it's better. And I I invite them over, it's better. And I I invite them over, it's better. And I I think actually I think the best thing to think actually I think the best thing to think actually I think the best thing to do is invite them over to your house do is invite them over to your house do is invite them over to your house because because because >> then there's some feeling that like it's >> then there's some feeling that like it's >> then there's some feeling that like it's a much stronger feeling than if you a much stronger feeling than if you a much stronger feeling than if you invite them to a restaurant. invite them to a restaurant. invite them to a restaurant. >> Well, even as an investor, Saka did >> Well, even as an investor, Saka did >> Well, even as an investor, Saka did this, right? Chris Saka did this with this, right? Chris Saka did this with this, right? Chris Saka did this with his he moved out of San Francisco where his he moved out of San Francisco where his he moved out of San Francisco where in San Francisco you don't have a yacht. in San Francisco you don't have a yacht. in San Francisco you don't have a yacht. You know, you're just meeting at coffee You know, you're just meeting at coffee You know, you're just meeting at coffee shops and little, you know, little shops and little, you know, little shops and little, you know, little places like this. You have an office, places like this. You have an office, places like this. You have an office, but everybody has an office. There's but everybody has an office. There's but everybody has an office. There's nothing special about it. He moves to uh nothing special about it. He moves to uh nothing special about it. He moves to uh Tahoe and Truckucky actually. and he Tahoe and Truckucky actually. and he Tahoe and Truckucky actually. and he basically has like a cabin on the basically has like a cabin on the basically has like a cabin on the mountains with a hot tub and you can ski mountains with a hot tub and you can ski mountains with a hot tub and you can ski and like his dog is there and his kids and like his dog is there and his kids and like his dog is there and his kids are there and he's got this guest house are there and he's got this guest house are there and he's got this guest house and then he invited you know Travis from and then he invited you know Travis from and then he invited you know Travis from Uber over and they hung out for two or Uber over and they hung out for two or Uber over and they hung out for two or three days and he invites Kevin Sister three days and he invites Kevin Sister three days and he invites Kevin Sister hey dude come just work out of my place hey dude come just work out of my place hey dude come just work out of my place in Tahoe for the week and then when in Tahoe for the week and then when in Tahoe for the week and then when they're on his turf in his yacht they're on his turf in his yacht they're on his turf in his yacht obviously like the connection and the obviously like the connection and the obviously like the connection and the depth of the of the relationship built depth of the of the relationship built depth of the of the relationship built way faster and he basically attributed way faster and he basically attributed way faster and he basically attributed that move to um you know some of the that move to um you know some of the that move to um you know some of the best investments of his career is like best investments of his career is like best investments of his career is like having that little yacht having that little yacht having that little yacht It's great. It makes makes complete It's great. It makes makes complete It's great. It makes makes complete sense. sense. sense. >> I've talked before about the way that I >> I've talked before about the way that I >> I've talked before about the way that I know how to make money, about how to know how to make money, about how to know how to make money, about how to build a money-making skill, about how to build a money-making skill, about how to build a money-making skill, about how to leverage your time and energy, and the leverage your time and energy, and the leverage your time and energy, and the team at HubSpot actually went through team at HubSpot actually went through team at HubSpot actually went through the video where I explained all that and the video where I explained all that and the video where I explained all that and turned it into a free downloadable cheat turned it into a free downloadable cheat turned it into a free downloadable cheat sheet on my four rules of how to make sheet on my four rules of how to make sheet on my four rules of how to make money. Now, this is not, you know, get money. Now, this is not, you know, get money. Now, this is not, you know, get rich quick advice. It's just core rich quick advice. It's just core rich quick advice. It's just core principles, foundational principles principles, foundational principles principles, foundational principles about building wealth, things that I about building wealth, things that I about building wealth, things that I wish I knew when I was, you know, just wish I knew when I was, you know, just wish I knew when I was, you know, just getting started. And so, if you want to getting started. And so, if you want to getting started. And so, if you want to download it, it's in the description download it, it's in the description download it, it's in the description below. It's totally free. You can go get below. It's totally free. You can go get below. It's totally free. You can go get it. Thanks to the folks at HubSpot for it. Thanks to the folks at HubSpot for it. Thanks to the folks at HubSpot for doing the research, making this doing the research, making this doing the research, making this document, and making it available to all document, and making it available to all document, and making it available to all you guys. All right, back to this you guys. All right, back to this you guys. All right, back to this episode. episode. episode. Yeah, there's some people who have done Yeah, there's some people who have done Yeah, there's some people who have done uh they've sort of productized this in uh they've sort of productized this in uh they've sort of productized this in an interesting way that I've met. They an interesting way that I've met. They an interesting way that I've met. They uh one person I know, they knew that uh one person I know, they knew that uh one person I know, they knew that Nick Gray is amazing at these two-hour Nick Gray is amazing at these two-hour Nick Gray is amazing at these two-hour cocktail parties. And so, they just like cocktail parties. And so, they just like cocktail parties. And so, they just like were like, "Hey, Nick, like, can I were like, "Hey, Nick, like, can I were like, "Hey, Nick, like, can I commission you to do the dinner party commission you to do the dinner party commission you to do the dinner party part for me?" And uh and he's like, part for me?" And uh and he's like, part for me?" And uh and he's like, "Great. I love doing this." And so they "Great. I love doing this." And so they "Great. I love doing this." And so they worked out a deal where he would do it worked out a deal where he would do it worked out a deal where he would do it for them. Or I know somebody else that for them. Or I know somebody else that for them. Or I know somebody else that did this with um if there's a conference did this with um if there's a conference did this with um if there's a conference in town, they would kind of free Airbnb. in town, they would kind of free Airbnb. in town, they would kind of free Airbnb. Actually Travis from Uber used to do Actually Travis from Uber used to do Actually Travis from Uber used to do this. In his old uh blog post, he talked this. In his old uh blog post, he talked this. In his old uh blog post, he talked about what he called the Jamad, which about what he called the Jamad, which about what he called the Jamad, which was his house in San Francisco. He's was his house in San Francisco. He's was his house in San Francisco. He's like, "Hey, if you're in town for this, like, "Hey, if you're in town for this, like, "Hey, if you're in town for this, you could stay at the Jamad." And he's you could stay at the Jamad." And he's you could stay at the Jamad." And he's like, you know, what does it cost me to like, you know, what does it cost me to like, you know, what does it cost me to have some people on the couch? Nothing. have some people on the couch? Nothing. have some people on the couch? Nothing. little inconvenience, a little might little inconvenience, a little might little inconvenience, a little might have to put up some some weirdness, but have to put up some some weirdness, but have to put up some some weirdness, but ultimately like I'm creating this ultimately like I'm creating this ultimately like I'm creating this magnet, this this little mini yacht magnet, this this little mini yacht magnet, this this little mini yacht where I'm just going to have this flow where I'm just going to have this flow where I'm just going to have this flow of interesting people coming through of interesting people coming through of interesting people coming through that might who knows who knows what that might who knows who knows what that might who knows who knows what what's going to happen, but the what's going to happen, but the what's going to happen, but the asymmetric upside was there for him. asymmetric upside was there for him. asymmetric upside was there for him. I've got a friend Satya who does this I've got a friend Satya who does this I've got a friend Satya who does this poker game every week and he'll invite poker game every week and he'll invite poker game every week and he'll invite anybody all sorts of interesting people anybody all sorts of interesting people anybody all sorts of interesting people from like CEOs of like prominent from like CEOs of like prominent from like CEOs of like prominent companies to I I was I just went to this companies to I I was I just went to this companies to I I was I just went to this deli had a sandwich I loved it was deli had a sandwich I loved it was deli had a sandwich I loved it was talking to the owner and he knows Satya talking to the owner and he knows Satya talking to the owner and he knows Satya and he was like yeah he came in here he and he was like yeah he came in here he and he was like yeah he came in here he loved the sandwich and then he invited loved the sandwich and then he invited loved the sandwich and then he invited me to play poker and I was like that's me to play poker and I was like that's me to play poker and I was like that's so interesting and he this like this guy so interesting and he this like this guy so interesting and he this like this guy went to go play poker with these CEOs went to go play poker with these CEOs went to go play poker with these CEOs and and and >> you know all all sorts of interesting >> you know all all sorts of interesting >> you know all all sorts of interesting stuff has happened thanks to that. So, I stuff has happened thanks to that. So, I stuff has happened thanks to that. So, I think that's his little yacht. think that's his little yacht. think that's his little yacht. >> It's interesting, you know, these are >> It's interesting, you know, these are >> It's interesting, you know, these are all so obvious. It's like, oh, host a all so obvious. It's like, oh, host a all so obvious. It's like, oh, host a dinner party, whatever. But if you kind dinner party, whatever. But if you kind dinner party, whatever. But if you kind of look I I know, at least for me, if I of look I I know, at least for me, if I of look I I know, at least for me, if I look at my life, I'm like, I'm I'm very look at my life, I'm like, I'm I'm very look at my life, I'm like, I'm I'm very underweighted there. It's like, you underweighted there. It's like, you underweighted there. It's like, you know, I'm pretty overweighted on, I know, I'm pretty overweighted on, I know, I'm pretty overweighted on, I don't know, social media or, you know, don't know, social media or, you know, don't know, social media or, you know, other things that I spend a lot of time other things that I spend a lot of time other things that I spend a lot of time on and these other things that I think on and these other things that I think on and these other things that I think if I if I'm honest with myself like if I if I'm honest with myself like if I if I'm honest with myself like would clearly add value and I just don't would clearly add value and I just don't would clearly add value and I just don't make the time for them. Like and then make the time for them. Like and then make the time for them. Like and then sometimes you need a reminder or in this sometimes you need a reminder or in this sometimes you need a reminder or in this case like just the word of like oh yeah case like just the word of like oh yeah case like just the word of like oh yeah I'm just building a yacht here. Suddenly I'm just building a yacht here. Suddenly I'm just building a yacht here. Suddenly it elevates the importance of the thing it elevates the importance of the thing it elevates the importance of the thing I'm doing from like I'm doing from like I'm doing from like >> I'm just hosting some people over. We're >> I'm just hosting some people over. We're >> I'm just hosting some people over. We're going to have a dinner to like no no going to have a dinner to like no no going to have a dinner to like no no this is part of my this is part of my this is part of my this is part of my this is part of my this is part of my yacht my yacht. I'm I'm like this Greek yacht my yacht. I'm I'm like this Greek yacht my yacht. I'm I'm like this Greek dude you know that that's me right now. dude you know that that's me right now. dude you know that that's me right now. And so sometimes you just need to delude And so sometimes you just need to delude And so sometimes you just need to delude yourself. yourself. yourself. >> Totally. Another one is so you know >> Totally. Another one is so you know >> Totally. Another one is so you know we're both active on Twitter. There are we're both active on Twitter. There are we're both active on Twitter. There are folks that are like mutuals, folks that folks that are like mutuals, folks that folks that are like mutuals, folks that you like their stuff, they like your you like their stuff, they like your you like their stuff, they like your stuff. Recently, I would say like once a stuff. Recently, I would say like once a stuff. Recently, I would say like once a month, somebody I meet somebody for the month, somebody I meet somebody for the month, somebody I meet somebody for the first time because there's somebody that first time because there's somebody that first time because there's somebody that is a mutual on Twitter, like we like is a mutual on Twitter, like we like is a mutual on Twitter, like we like each other and they reach out to me and each other and they reach out to me and each other and they reach out to me and say, "Hey, like let's grab lunch." And say, "Hey, like let's grab lunch." And say, "Hey, like let's grab lunch." And it's usually people in from out of town, it's usually people in from out of town, it's usually people in from out of town, like people who are in town, you just like people who are in town, you just like people who are in town, you just expect that you're going to see them. expect that you're going to see them. expect that you're going to see them. But if somebody's in from out of town, But if somebody's in from out of town, But if somebody's in from out of town, they're coming to San Francisco, they they're coming to San Francisco, they they're coming to San Francisco, they they go on a mission to meet all their they go on a mission to meet all their they go on a mission to meet all their Twitter mutuals. And I think that's Twitter mutuals. And I think that's Twitter mutuals. And I think that's great. Like people people should do great. Like people people should do great. Like people people should do that. Like when you're traveling, that. Like when you're traveling, that. Like when you're traveling, especially to San Francisco, if you have especially to San Francisco, if you have especially to San Francisco, if you have a lot of mutuals here, just reach out to a lot of mutuals here, just reach out to a lot of mutuals here, just reach out to them, them, them, >> right? Yeah. That's so true. It's like >> right? Yeah. That's so true. It's like >> right? Yeah. That's so true. It's like tourism, right? Like if you like I've tourism, right? Like if you like I've tourism, right? Like if you like I've never been to Alcatraz. I've lived here never been to Alcatraz. I've lived here never been to Alcatraz. I've lived here for 15 years, but if I came to visit, I for 15 years, but if I came to visit, I for 15 years, but if I came to visit, I would have seen it that weekend. would have seen it that weekend. would have seen it that weekend. >> Absolutely. You I was going to ask you >> Absolutely. You I was going to ask you >> Absolutely. You I was going to ask you about AI because I feel like you're about AI because I feel like you're about AI because I feel like you're pretty plugged in and you have you're a pretty plugged in and you have you're a pretty plugged in and you have you're a thoughtful dude. So, I think you have thoughtful dude. So, I think you have thoughtful dude. So, I think you have opinions on kind of like where the world opinions on kind of like where the world opinions on kind of like where the world is going. So, I want you to paint the is going. So, I want you to paint the is going. So, I want you to paint the picture like Game of Thrones style. You picture like Game of Thrones style. You picture like Game of Thrones style. You know, the intro of Game of Thrones where know, the intro of Game of Thrones where know, the intro of Game of Thrones where they have the big map. It's like then they have the big map. It's like then they have the big map. It's like then you have this map first. So like the you have this map first. So like the you have this map first. So like the highlevel map for AI is like what here's highlevel map for AI is like what here's highlevel map for AI is like what here's what it appears to me. I'm curious your what it appears to me. I'm curious your what it appears to me. I'm curious your point of view that there's this um race point of view that there's this um race point of view that there's this um race and I don't fully understand the idea of and I don't fully understand the idea of and I don't fully understand the idea of a race because it seems like whatever a race because it seems like whatever a race because it seems like whatever one company does the other companies one company does the other companies one company does the other companies have 6 months later. So I'm not sure have 6 months later. So I'm not sure have 6 months later. So I'm not sure like if you got to the finish line then like if you got to the finish line then like if you got to the finish line then what what is the finish line and how do what what is the finish line and how do what what is the finish line and how do you win this supposed race? I'm not sure you win this supposed race? I'm not sure you win this supposed race? I'm not sure about that, but obviously so much money about that, but obviously so much money about that, but obviously so much money is being invested that somebody believes is being invested that somebody believes is being invested that somebody believes that there's like a a victory condition that there's like a a victory condition that there's like a a victory condition of this race. So, I'm curious about that of this race. So, I'm curious about that of this race. So, I'm curious about that part of it first, like the the concept part of it first, like the the concept part of it first, like the the concept of an AI race. What do people actually of an AI race. What do people actually of an AI race. What do people actually mean? And how's that going to play out? mean? And how's that going to play out? mean? And how's that going to play out? >> So many things in life have been winner >> So many things in life have been winner >> So many things in life have been winner take all in tech especially. So, like take all in tech especially. So, like take all in tech especially. So, like there's one major search engine and there's one major search engine and there's one major search engine and there's one, you know, Facebook on there's one, you know, Facebook on there's one, you know, Facebook on social media. Of course, there are social media. Of course, there are social media. Of course, there are others. There's Twitter out there, but a others. There's Twitter out there, but a others. There's Twitter out there, but a lot of these businesses have scaling lot of these businesses have scaling lot of these businesses have scaling returns or network effects. And the same returns or network effects. And the same returns or network effects. And the same is true in AI probably. Like one company is true in AI probably. Like one company is true in AI probably. Like one company is going to have all of the context they is going to have all of the context they is going to have all of the context they need to be your best assistant. And so I need to be your best assistant. And so I need to be your best assistant. And so I feel weird saying this because I use I feel weird saying this because I use I feel weird saying this because I use I right now use Claude Gemini and chat GBT right now use Claude Gemini and chat GBT right now use Claude Gemini and chat GBT every day and same queries I'm doing the every day and same queries I'm doing the every day and same queries I'm doing the same query on each but in the long run same query on each but in the long run same query on each but in the long run that's not really sustainable and also that's not really sustainable and also that's not really sustainable and also not everybody's like me. Most people are not everybody's like me. Most people are not everybody's like me. Most people are probably just going to have one probably just going to have one probably just going to have one >> and the context embedded into it which >> and the context embedded into it which >> and the context embedded into it which is like all of your past conversations is like all of your past conversations is like all of your past conversations or if it's Gemini they have all your or if it's Gemini they have all your or if it's Gemini they have all your email or you know if it's if it ends up email or you know if it's if it ends up email or you know if it's if it ends up being meta somehow they have all that being meta somehow they have all that being meta somehow they have all that context that's going to be really context that's going to be really context that's going to be really valuable. So the first idea is that valuable. So the first idea is that valuable. So the first idea is that everybody in the world is going to want everybody in the world is going to want everybody in the world is going to want is going to have some ultra smart is going to have some ultra smart is going to have some ultra smart helpful assistant which is some blend of helpful assistant which is some blend of helpful assistant which is some blend of like Google that just answers your like Google that just answers your like Google that just answers your questions for you but then also like can questions for you but then also like can questions for you but then also like can make things for you, write things for make things for you, write things for make things for you, write things for you, create a plan for you, uh research you, create a plan for you, uh research you, create a plan for you, uh research the thing for you, like do the job for the thing for you, like do the job for the thing for you, like do the job for you. And like today that's today the you. And like today that's today the you. And like today that's today the leader is chat GPT. I think they're like leader is chat GPT. I think they're like leader is chat GPT. I think they're like close to like a billion mus. And you close to like a billion mus. And you close to like a billion mus. And you know, Google's going to quickly try to know, Google's going to quickly try to know, Google's going to quickly try to like, you know, Google's trying their like, you know, Google's trying their like, you know, Google's trying their best to do that. It seems like nobody best to do that. It seems like nobody best to do that. It seems like nobody else is close in that race specific that else is close in that race specific that else is close in that race specific that specific part of the race that every specific part of the race that every specific part of the race that every human has an assistant. human has an assistant. human has an assistant. >> OpenAI kind of launched ChatGBT and it >> OpenAI kind of launched ChatGBT and it >> OpenAI kind of launched ChatGBT and it was unexpectedly a hit for them. It's was unexpectedly a hit for them. It's was unexpectedly a hit for them. It's it's crazy to think now, but they didn't it's crazy to think now, but they didn't it's crazy to think now, but they didn't think it was going to work that well, think it was going to work that well, think it was going to work that well, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> And OpenAI was an enterprise company and >> And OpenAI was an enterprise company and >> And OpenAI was an enterprise company and then through the success of ChatGpt then through the success of ChatGpt then through the success of ChatGpt became a consumer company. But Google became a consumer company. But Google became a consumer company. But Google already has all of this context on you already has all of this context on you already has all of this context on you and they actually started this whole LLM and they actually started this whole LLM and they actually started this whole LLM thing. They screwed up along the way thing. They screwed up along the way thing. They screwed up along the way with Bard and all sorts of funny stuff with Bard and all sorts of funny stuff with Bard and all sorts of funny stuff that they did. But now Gemini is really, that they did. But now Gemini is really, that they did. But now Gemini is really, really good. And so in that consumer really good. And so in that consumer really good. And so in that consumer race, they've done a very good job. race, they've done a very good job. race, they've done a very good job. Gemini has and I think has the momentum Gemini has and I think has the momentum Gemini has and I think has the momentum on consumer right now. Then there's the on consumer right now. Then there's the on consumer right now. Then there's the enterprise piece which is like a lot of enterprise piece which is like a lot of enterprise piece which is like a lot of enterprise folks use Claude and I enterprise folks use Claude and I enterprise folks use Claude and I personally use Claude more than I use personally use Claude more than I use personally use Claude more than I use chat GBT and it just allows me to do chat GBT and it just allows me to do chat GBT and it just allows me to do more things like for for the kind of more things like for for the kind of more things like for for the kind of research I do on companies. Claude is research I do on companies. Claude is research I do on companies. Claude is just my partner. It's my sparring just my partner. It's my sparring just my partner. It's my sparring partner. Like I'll partner. Like I'll partner. Like I'll >> it's like having like we actually didn't >> it's like having like we actually didn't >> it's like having like we actually didn't hire somebody this year because hire somebody this year because hire somebody this year because we're using Claude more than ever. Well, we're using Claude more than ever. Well, we're using Claude more than ever. Well, you you essentially did. You hired a you you essentially did. You hired a you you essentially did. You hired a person named Claude essentially. person named Claude essentially. person named Claude essentially. >> Exactly. Exactly. >> Exactly. Exactly. >> Exactly. Exactly. >> Okay. So, there's the race to have >> Okay. So, there's the race to have >> Okay. So, there's the race to have everybody gets the sort of all everybody gets the sort of all everybody gets the sort of all intelligent, super helpful, always next intelligent, super helpful, always next intelligent, super helpful, always next to you, chief of staff. That's that's to you, chief of staff. That's that's to you, chief of staff. That's that's the Chad GPT analogy. Then you have um the Chad GPT analogy. Then you have um the Chad GPT analogy. Then you have um you know, like in Game of Thrones, you'd you know, like in Game of Thrones, you'd you know, like in Game of Thrones, you'd have like the whoever like is like have like the whoever like is like have like the whoever like is like really good at the the sea battles, really good at the the sea battles, really good at the the sea battles, right? The ocean stuff. That's right? The ocean stuff. That's right? The ocean stuff. That's Enterprise and and Anthropic doing Enterprise and and Anthropic doing Enterprise and and Anthropic doing pretty well there right now. And then pretty well there right now. And then pretty well there right now. And then and they're all going to compete for and they're all going to compete for and they're all going to compete for everything, but like they're doing everything, but like they're doing everything, but like they're doing pretty well right now. pretty well right now. pretty well right now. >> And then you have the king of the north. >> And then you have the king of the north. >> And then you have the king of the north. So, you have Elon up there and he's So, you have Elon up there and he's So, you have Elon up there and he's marching and he's like, I'm going to put marching and he's like, I'm going to put marching and he's like, I'm going to put data centers in space and I'm going to data centers in space and I'm going to data centers in space and I'm going to catch up with Grock and we're going to catch up with Grock and we're going to catch up with Grock and we're going to win. And so, what do what's your take on win. And so, what do what's your take on win. And so, what do what's your take on how that where does he go? How does that how that where does he go? How does that how that where does he go? How does that work? I would never ever ever bet work? I would never ever ever bet work? I would never ever ever bet against Elon, but as of right now, I against Elon, but as of right now, I against Elon, but as of right now, I find Grock to not be as useful. But I find Grock to not be as useful. But I find Grock to not be as useful. But I think I think like it's possible that think I think like it's possible that think I think like it's possible that everyone has their favorite and you know everyone has their favorite and you know everyone has their favorite and you know over time people sort of slot into their over time people sort of slot into their over time people sort of slot into their favorites. It's like Coke Pepsi. favorites. It's like Coke Pepsi. favorites. It's like Coke Pepsi. >> If you're Yeah, like Code Pepsi right >> If you're Yeah, like Code Pepsi right >> If you're Yeah, like Code Pepsi right now. If you are a working in code, now. If you are a working in code, now. If you are a working in code, you're probably using Anthropic, you're probably using Anthropic, you're probably using Anthropic, >> right? Okay. So now, okay, let's keep >> right? Okay. So now, okay, let's keep >> right? Okay. So now, okay, let's keep going through the battle. Then you have going through the battle. Then you have going through the battle. Then you have all these SAS companies. You've got uh, all these SAS companies. You've got uh, all these SAS companies. You've got uh, you know, today's sponsor, HubSpot, you know, today's sponsor, HubSpot, you know, today's sponsor, HubSpot, you've got Salesforce. You've got like you've got Salesforce. You've got like you've got Salesforce. You've got like all Adobe, Figma, all these companies all Adobe, Figma, all these companies all Adobe, Figma, all these companies that are like cranking on revenue and that are like cranking on revenue and that are like cranking on revenue and growth and earnings and then their stock growth and earnings and then their stock growth and earnings and then their stock is just plummeting because the market is just plummeting because the market is just plummeting because the market believes that like they're going to believes that like they're going to believes that like they're going to they're going to get somehow eaten away they're going to get somehow eaten away they're going to get somehow eaten away by I believe it must be that that's why by I believe it must be that that's why by I believe it must be that that's why the stock is going down. The business the stock is going down. The business the stock is going down. The business fundamentals are strong, but there's fundamentals are strong, but there's fundamentals are strong, but there's this question of 20 years in the future, this question of 20 years in the future, this question of 20 years in the future, is this company stronger or has it just is this company stronger or has it just is this company stronger or has it just been eaten away by AI that can do all been eaten away by AI that can do all been eaten away by AI that can do all these things? What do you think happens these things? What do you think happens these things? What do you think happens there? Is that overblown? Is that a is there? Is that overblown? Is that a is there? Is that overblown? Is that a is it a buying opportunity? Or are you it a buying opportunity? Or are you it a buying opportunity? Or are you equally suspicious of of the future of equally suspicious of of the future of equally suspicious of of the future of these companies? these companies? these companies? >> I'm suspicious of the future of a lot of >> I'm suspicious of the future of a lot of >> I'm suspicious of the future of a lot of these companies. And I just think about these companies. And I just think about these companies. And I just think about myself like right now I already am doing myself like right now I already am doing myself like right now I already am doing a lot of image creation in Gemini Nana a lot of image creation in Gemini Nana a lot of image creation in Gemini Nana Banana. Um I I'm a paid user of Canva, Banana. Um I I'm a paid user of Canva, Banana. Um I I'm a paid user of Canva, uh a bunch of Adobe products. Uh, and uh a bunch of Adobe products. Uh, and uh a bunch of Adobe products. Uh, and yet now most of my image generation is yet now most of my image generation is yet now most of my image generation is already on nano banana. It's just so already on nano banana. It's just so already on nano banana. It's just so much easier, much easier, much easier, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> So then like can those guys build it? >> So then like can those guys build it? >> So then like can those guys build it? >> Probably yes. Like some of them already >> Probably yes. Like some of them already >> Probably yes. Like some of them already have pretty good stuff. Like Adobe's AI have pretty good stuff. Like Adobe's AI have pretty good stuff. Like Adobe's AI stuff is very good. Figma's good. But stuff is very good. Figma's good. But stuff is very good. Figma's good. But will I just will there just be one model will I just will there just be one model will I just will there just be one model to roll them all and I'll just do to roll them all and I'll just do to roll them all and I'll just do everything in there. It's my assistant. everything in there. It's my assistant. everything in there. It's my assistant. My assistant's doing it for me. So what My assistant's doing it for me. So what My assistant's doing it for me. So what do you need to be successful as an do you need to be successful as an do you need to be successful as an independent company is a good question independent company is a good question independent company is a good question because if you look at all these like because if you look at all these like because if you look at all these like early AI companies so there was like early AI companies so there was like early AI companies so there was like there were the ones that just helped you there were the ones that just helped you there were the ones that just helped you write Jasper was one there there are write Jasper was one there there are write Jasper was one there there are some others some others some others >> and like those guys I don't know how >> and like those guys I don't know how >> and like those guys I don't know how they're doing now but I imagine not well they're doing now but I imagine not well they're doing now but I imagine not well because I don't need another tool to because I don't need another tool to because I don't need another tool to tell me how to write like can do that tell me how to write like can do that tell me how to write like can do that for me for me for me >> and then I think the Same is probably >> and then I think the Same is probably >> and then I think the Same is probably going to be true in image generation and going to be true in image generation and going to be true in image generation and then all these other products too like then all these other products too like then all these other products too like even even law there are these companies even even law there are these companies even even law there are these companies Harvey and Lora which are both doing Harvey and Lora which are both doing Harvey and Lora which are both doing phenomenally well um but Anthropic phenomenally well um but Anthropic phenomenally well um but Anthropic launched their own legal thing. So like launched their own legal thing. So like launched their own legal thing. So like what are the businesses in which you're what are the businesses in which you're what are the businesses in which you're you have less to worry about being you have less to worry about being you have less to worry about being cannibalized from an existing AI cannibalized from an existing AI cannibalized from an existing AI >> right there there was like a quote from >> right there there was like a quote from >> right there there was like a quote from Sam Alwin maybe two years ago or a year Sam Alwin maybe two years ago or a year Sam Alwin maybe two years ago or a year ago where he said they were kind of ago where he said they were kind of ago where he said they were kind of asking him this question hey developers asking him this question hey developers asking him this question hey developers are trying to build but we're all are trying to build but we're all are trying to build but we're all worried we're going to get steamrolled worried we're going to get steamrolled worried we're going to get steamrolled and he he was like yeah you should think and he he was like yeah you should think and he he was like yeah you should think about what we're not going to build or about what we're not going to build or about what we're not going to build or he goes here's a simple test like um he goes here's a simple test like um he goes here's a simple test like um there's some companies that when we say there's some companies that when we say there's some companies that when we say there's a new model update they get there's a new model update they get there's a new model update they get really excited because it made their really excited because it made their really excited because it made their existing so much more valuable. And then existing so much more valuable. And then existing so much more valuable. And then there's other companies that are there's other companies that are there's other companies that are terrified when we say there's a new terrified when we say there's a new terrified when we say there's a new model update cuz we might have just model update cuz we might have just model update cuz we might have just swallowed what they did and you should swallowed what they did and you should swallowed what they did and you should think really carefully. And the response think really carefully. And the response think really carefully. And the response was sort of like, okay, so so wait, what was sort of like, okay, so so wait, what was sort of like, okay, so so wait, what are so what are those things that you're are so what are those things that you're are so what are those things that you're not going to do? Right. That's like it's not going to do? Right. That's like it's not going to do? Right. That's like it's like a meme where it's like wait, like a meme where it's like wait, like a meme where it's like wait, so are you going to say what they are or so are you going to say what they are or so are you going to say what they are or we just need to Yes. Right. It seems we just need to Yes. Right. It seems we just need to Yes. Right. It seems like an everexpanding scope. Um that like an everexpanding scope. Um that like an everexpanding scope. Um that that's pretty tough. seems like the that's pretty tough. seems like the that's pretty tough. seems like the lawyer one would probably be easier lawyer one would probably be easier lawyer one would probably be easier because a lawyers uh you know it's a because a lawyers uh you know it's a because a lawyers uh you know it's a workflow specific thing there's like workflow specific thing there's like workflow specific thing there's like security compliance there's like there's security compliance there's like there's security compliance there's like there's like really like a lot of nuance that like really like a lot of nuance that like really like a lot of nuance that you would have to build on top of that you would have to build on top of that you would have to build on top of that even if chat GBD can quickly generate a even if chat GBD can quickly generate a even if chat GBD can quickly generate a document and write it or read it still document and write it or read it still document and write it or read it still probably there's enough like domain probably there's enough like domain probably there's enough like domain specific workflow and risk where specific workflow and risk where specific workflow and risk where somebody specializing in it will solve somebody specializing in it will solve somebody specializing in it will solve the hundred small problems that the the hundred small problems that the the hundred small problems that the lawyers care about uh that chatp's lawyers care about uh that chatp's lawyers care about uh that chatp's product managers aren't going to care to product managers aren't going to care to product managers aren't going to care to do do do >> totally I think that's True. And I I >> totally I think that's True. And I I >> totally I think that's True. And I I think in your in your the case of think in your in your the case of think in your in your the case of HubSpot or Salesforce like I don't think HubSpot or Salesforce like I don't think HubSpot or Salesforce like I don't think those things are going to change those things are going to change those things are going to change overnight. I think it's going to be overnight. I think it's going to be overnight. I think it's going to be there's a people are going to keep using there's a people are going to keep using there's a people are going to keep using those like systems of record for a long those like systems of record for a long those like systems of record for a long time. As a fund we think about this a time. As a fund we think about this a time. As a fund we think about this a lot and my partner Nihar wrote wrote a lot and my partner Nihar wrote wrote a lot and my partner Nihar wrote wrote a piece last week called the last mile piece last week called the last mile piece last week called the last mile problem and basically we talk about what problem and basically we talk about what problem and basically we talk about what matters and it's what you just said matters and it's what you just said matters and it's what you just said domain context and workflows. So like if domain context and workflows. So like if domain context and workflows. So like if you've got the specific terms and norms you've got the specific terms and norms you've got the specific terms and norms of a given field, if it's healthcare, of a given field, if it's healthcare, of a given field, if it's healthcare, legal, accounting, you can produce more legal, accounting, you can produce more legal, accounting, you can produce more trusted outcomes. Um, and integrations. trusted outcomes. Um, and integrations. trusted outcomes. Um, and integrations. So like integrations into your So like integrations into your So like integrations into your Salesforce instance are valuable. Um, or Salesforce instance are valuable. Um, or Salesforce instance are valuable. Um, or in health, ehrs or whatever the case may in health, ehrs or whatever the case may in health, ehrs or whatever the case may be. be. be. >> And then there's also some like >> And then there's also some like >> And then there's also some like compliance and human in the loop element compliance and human in the loop element compliance and human in the loop element that I think really matters. that I think really matters. that I think really matters. >> So I I it's hard to know though. It >> So I I it's hard to know though. It >> So I I it's hard to know though. It really does feel like a lot of these really does feel like a lot of these really does feel like a lot of these businesses could at least be very businesses could at least be very businesses could at least be very challenged by the general models. challenged by the general models. challenged by the general models. >> What are some uh like if if I just gave >> What are some uh like if if I just gave >> What are some uh like if if I just gave you a million dollars and I'm like you you a million dollars and I'm like you you a million dollars and I'm like you got to invest this into any AI got to invest this into any AI got to invest this into any AI companies, public, private, anywhere, companies, public, private, anywhere, companies, public, private, anywhere, what where do you have like a lot of what where do you have like a lot of what where do you have like a lot of conviction? What would that what would conviction? What would that what would conviction? What would that what would that portfolio look like? Where would that portfolio look like? Where would that portfolio look like? Where would you put the bets? Let's take take a you put the bets? Let's take take a you put the bets? Let's take take a million dollars. Where are you putting million dollars. Where are you putting million dollars. Where are you putting the bets? the bets? the bets? >> Yeah. So I would say like right now with >> Yeah. So I would say like right now with >> Yeah. So I would say like right now with you know Anthropic being valued at you know Anthropic being valued at you know Anthropic being valued at nearly 400 billion and uh OpenAI at like nearly 400 billion and uh OpenAI at like nearly 400 billion and uh OpenAI at like 800 billion I don't I'm not going to put 800 billion I don't I'm not going to put 800 billion I don't I'm not going to put it there like how how big could those it there like how how big could those it there like how how big could those companies get and what's the riskreward? companies get and what's the riskreward? companies get and what's the riskreward? I think you know could they be trillion I think you know could they be trillion I think you know could they be trillion dollar companies? Yeah, but they better dollar companies? Yeah, but they better dollar companies? Yeah, but they better be trillion dollar companies, right? be trillion dollar companies, right? be trillion dollar companies, right? Like if they're not that's a failure, Like if they're not that's a failure, Like if they're not that's a failure, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> So I'm I'm not putting it there. Um, >> So I'm I'm not putting it there. Um, >> So I'm I'm not putting it there. Um, it's wild to think that like it's wild to think that like it's wild to think that like we only had the first trillion dollar we only had the first trillion dollar we only had the first trillion dollar company like not that long ago. company like not that long ago. company like not that long ago. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Those are what, six, seven years ago. I >> Those are what, six, seven years ago. I >> Those are what, six, seven years ago. I feel like feel like feel like >> it was a really big deal. And now we >> it was a really big deal. And now we >> it was a really big deal. And now we have basically almost trillion dollar have basically almost trillion dollar have basically almost trillion dollar private companies that didn't even exist private companies that didn't even exist private companies that didn't even exist 10 years ago. It's crazy. 10 years ago. It's crazy. 10 years ago. It's crazy. >> Okay. So, where would I put that money? >> Okay. So, where would I put that money? >> Okay. So, where would I put that money? So I I think it'd go back to this like So I I think it'd go back to this like So I I think it'd go back to this like where are where are the vertical where are where are the vertical where are where are the vertical opportunities that are very interesting opportunities that are very interesting opportunities that are very interesting and I think on the general consumer side and I think on the general consumer side and I think on the general consumer side I think it's tough for me to find one I think it's tough for me to find one I think it's tough for me to find one because on the consumer side it feels because on the consumer side it feels because on the consumer side it feels like I probably am going to be using like I probably am going to be using like I probably am going to be using Gemini or ChatgBT or one of those Gemini or ChatgBT or one of those Gemini or ChatgBT or one of those generalized models. They're going to end generalized models. They're going to end generalized models. They're going to end up getting my context for for the stuff up getting my context for for the stuff up getting my context for for the stuff I need. You know, there might be other I need. You know, there might be other I need. You know, there might be other interesting ones that do stuff like Suno interesting ones that do stuff like Suno interesting ones that do stuff like Suno for music is interesting. They've for music is interesting. They've for music is interesting. They've actually they've grown like crazy to to actually they've grown like crazy to to actually they've grown like crazy to to an amount that I would not have an amount that I would not have an amount that I would not have predicted. predicted. predicted. >> They're like hundreds of millions of >> They're like hundreds of millions of >> They're like hundreds of millions of revenue, I believe. revenue, I believe. revenue, I believe. >> Yeah, I'm a power user of Cena. >> Yeah, I'm a power user of Cena. >> Yeah, I'm a power user of Cena. >> Yeah. Amazing. It would be a fun >> Yeah. Amazing. It would be a fun >> Yeah. Amazing. It would be a fun project. I mean, a lot of people are project. I mean, a lot of people are project. I mean, a lot of people are obviously doing this, but a fun a fun obviously doing this, but a fun a fun obviously doing this, but a fun a fun project for somebody would be to like project for somebody would be to like project for somebody would be to like build a brand around a musician that build a brand around a musician that build a brand around a musician that you've created on AI and like market it you've created on AI and like market it you've created on AI and like market it through Spotify and all that stuff. through Spotify and all that stuff. through Spotify and all that stuff. There obviously a lot of them out there, There obviously a lot of them out there, There obviously a lot of them out there, but if I had more free time, I would but if I had more free time, I would but if I had more free time, I would probably do probably do probably do >> that'd be a fun one to do. >> that'd be a fun one to do. >> that'd be a fun one to do. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, exactly. Uh yeah, I've played >> Yeah, exactly. Uh yeah, I've played >> Yeah, exactly. Uh yeah, I've played around with that idea as well, like what around with that idea as well, like what around with that idea as well, like what would it take to get on the charts, would it take to get on the charts, would it take to get on the charts, right? Can I take this song? Could I right? Can I take this song? Could I right? Can I take this song? Could I create an artist with an avatar? Can I create an artist with an avatar? Can I create an artist with an avatar? Can I build them up on Instagram? How would I build them up on Instagram? How would I build them up on Instagram? How would I do this? And just see like totally just do this? And just see like totally just do this? And just see like totally just get to play, you know, have have this get to play, you know, have have this get to play, you know, have have this sort of like fantasy musician arc, you sort of like fantasy musician arc, you sort of like fantasy musician arc, you know, take take six months and just see know, take take six months and just see know, take take six months and just see what you could do. Um, like I'm pretty what you could do. Um, like I'm pretty what you could do. Um, like I'm pretty sure I could do it if I just dedicated sure I could do it if I just dedicated sure I could do it if I just dedicated six months to to doing it. Now, again, six months to to doing it. Now, again, six months to to doing it. Now, again, it's like maybe it's not worth the time, it's like maybe it's not worth the time, it's like maybe it's not worth the time, but it's fun. It's on my list. It's on but it's fun. It's on my list. It's on but it's fun. It's on my list. It's on my my itch list here of like possible my my itch list here of like possible my my itch list here of like possible projects. projects. projects. >> Yeah. On a related note, I just saw this >> Yeah. On a related note, I just saw this >> Yeah. On a related note, I just saw this on Twitter, so I don't know if it's on Twitter, so I don't know if it's on Twitter, so I don't know if it's fully accurate, but um there's an fully accurate, but um there's an fully accurate, but um there's an Epstein Files podcast Epstein Files podcast Epstein Files podcast that's entirely AI generated and that's entirely AI generated and that's entirely AI generated and apparently is now a top 50 podcast on apparently is now a top 50 podcast on apparently is now a top 50 podcast on the charts. the charts. the charts. >> I saw when he launched it and he was >> I saw when he launched it and he was >> I saw when he launched it and he was like, "It's getting downloaded like a like, "It's getting downloaded like a like, "It's getting downloaded like a thousand times an hour right now." And thousand times an hour right now." And thousand times an hour right now." And then it was like update 3,000 times an then it was like update 3,000 times an then it was like update 3,000 times an hour, right? It was like, uh, but but hour, right? It was like, uh, but but hour, right? It was like, uh, but but what is the actual podcast? What is it? what is the actual podcast? What is it? what is the actual podcast? What is it? Is it just reading the emails out loud? Is it just reading the emails out loud? Is it just reading the emails out loud? What is it trying to do? What is it trying to do? What is it trying to do? >> I So after I saw the tweet, I went and I >> I So after I saw the tweet, I went and I >> I So after I saw the tweet, I went and I listened to the intro and it's kind of listened to the intro and it's kind of listened to the intro and it's kind of like notebook LM. So it's like it's like like notebook LM. So it's like it's like like notebook LM. So it's like it's like they're two hosts talking back and forth they're two hosts talking back and forth they're two hosts talking back and forth about it and they they talk about a about it and they they talk about a about it and they they talk about a different thing each each episode. different thing each each episode. different thing each each episode. >> I wonder how many more things are going >> I wonder how many more things are going >> I wonder how many more things are going to be like this, right? So like I'm not to be like this, right? So like I'm not to be like this, right? So like I'm not safe as a podcaster, right? Because you safe as a podcaster, right? Because you safe as a podcaster, right? Because you can um you can create podcasts about, can um you can create podcasts about, can um you can create podcasts about, you know, about anything and now if you you know, about anything and now if you you know, about anything and now if you can auto auto create it. And so what can auto auto create it. And so what can auto auto create it. And so what they did was they basically like here's they did was they basically like here's they did was they basically like here's this source material that's very juicy, this source material that's very juicy, this source material that's very juicy, very dense and maybe is going to be keep very dense and maybe is going to be keep very dense and maybe is going to be keep growing, right? So there's some runway growing, right? So there's some runway growing, right? So there's some runway here and then you feed it into notebook here and then you feed it into notebook here and then you feed it into notebook LM and then you create a podcast out of LM and then you create a podcast out of LM and then you create a podcast out of it like automatically. it like automatically. it like automatically. >> You could do that like you know about >> You could do that like you know about >> You could do that like you know about everything. I could do that about everything. I could do that about everything. I could do that about sports. I could do that about anything sports. I could do that about anything sports. I could do that about anything that has like this big feed of uh like that has like this big feed of uh like that has like this big feed of uh like your feed stock to put into the to into your feed stock to put into the to into your feed stock to put into the to into the bottle, right? That's it's pretty the bottle, right? That's it's pretty the bottle, right? That's it's pretty wild. I thought about creating a podcast wild. I thought about creating a podcast wild. I thought about creating a podcast that was interviews with the great dead. that was interviews with the great dead. that was interviews with the great dead. So it's basically like could I do a So it's basically like could I do a So it's basically like could I do a podcast with Steve Jobs now with AI? podcast with Steve Jobs now with AI? podcast with Steve Jobs now with AI? >> Oh yeah. >> Oh yeah. >> Oh yeah. >> Like maybe I could maybe the tools are >> Like maybe I could maybe the tools are >> Like maybe I could maybe the tools are now good enough where you could actually now good enough where you could actually now good enough where you could actually figure out like what would he say and it figure out like what would he say and it figure out like what would he say and it actually has enough it would give like actually has enough it would give like actually has enough it would give like sensible answers. You could copy his sensible answers. You could copy his sensible answers. You could copy his voice using 11 Labs. Yeah. voice using 11 Labs. Yeah. voice using 11 Labs. Yeah. >> You could create a digital avatar using >> You could create a digital avatar using >> You could create a digital avatar using one of the video models. Yeah. one of the video models. Yeah. one of the video models. Yeah. >> And you could do the whole thing. And so >> And you could do the whole thing. And so >> And you could do the whole thing. And so like that's kind of interesting. Like like that's kind of interesting. Like like that's kind of interesting. Like what what if I did that? That would be what what if I did that? That would be what what if I did that? That would be cool. Like, you know, just me and cool. Like, you know, just me and cool. Like, you know, just me and Gangghask Khan for today's episode. Gangghask Khan for today's episode. Gangghask Khan for today's episode. >> Totally. Have you seen um Deli? >> Totally. Have you seen um Deli? >> Totally. Have you seen um Deli? >> Uh the like they're making like a clone, >> Uh the like they're making like a clone, >> Uh the like they're making like a clone, right? Deli. What is it? right? Deli. What is it? right? Deli. What is it? >> Deli dig. >> Deli dig. >> Deli dig. >> You can make it's deli.ai. Um you can >> You can make it's deli.ai. Um you can >> You can make it's deli.ai. Um you can basically make a digital clone of basically make a digital clone of basically make a digital clone of yourself and they have them with like yourself and they have them with like yourself and they have them with like Arnold Schwarzenegger and other folks Arnold Schwarzenegger and other folks Arnold Schwarzenegger and other folks like that. Like you can you can talk to like that. Like you can you can talk to like that. Like you can you can talk to them basically do what kind of what you them basically do what kind of what you them basically do what kind of what you just said. just said. just said. >> Are they pretty good? Is it uh >> Are they pretty good? Is it uh >> Are they pretty good? Is it uh >> they're pretty good. I I haven't I >> they're pretty good. I I haven't I >> they're pretty good. I I haven't I haven't played around with it that much, haven't played around with it that much, haven't played around with it that much, but from what I saw, it was pretty good. but from what I saw, it was pretty good. but from what I saw, it was pretty good. And apparently the company's doing very And apparently the company's doing very And apparently the company's doing very well. They raised from Sequoia other well. They raised from Sequoia other well. They raised from Sequoia other like off the races. like off the races. like off the races. >> Wow. So, people are like, I just want to >> Wow. So, people are like, I just want to >> Wow. So, people are like, I just want to chat with Michael like Michael Oitz on chat with Michael like Michael Oitz on chat with Michael like Michael Oitz on here. I want to chat with Michael Oitz. here. I want to chat with Michael Oitz. here. I want to chat with Michael Oitz. >> Yeah. I think like I saw Lenny uh Lenny >> Yeah. I think like I saw Lenny uh Lenny >> Yeah. I think like I saw Lenny uh Lenny has one, Lenny Rajitki, your guy Brian has one, Lenny Rajitki, your guy Brian has one, Lenny Rajitki, your guy Brian Heligan has one and he does like founder Heligan has one and he does like founder Heligan has one and he does like founder coaching via Deli. So, I just asked coaching via Deli. So, I just asked coaching via Deli. So, I just asked Michael Oitz, the creator of CIA, the Michael Oitz, the creator of CIA, the Michael Oitz, the creator of CIA, the talent agency. I said, "Hey, after this, talent agency. I said, "Hey, after this, talent agency. I said, "Hey, after this, I was like, I'm having a meeting about I was like, I'm having a meeting about I was like, I'm having a meeting about our podcast deal to renegotiate. What our podcast deal to renegotiate. What our podcast deal to renegotiate. What should I do?" And here we go. I got should I do?" And here we go. I got should I do?" And here we go. I got Michael Oitz representing me now. This Michael Oitz representing me now. This Michael Oitz representing me now. This is fantastic. is fantastic. is fantastic. >> Kind of incredible. >> Kind of incredible. >> Kind of incredible. >> He's like, "You're He said, "You're >> He's like, "You're He said, "You're >> He's like, "You're He said, "You're negotiating leverage, not just rates." negotiating leverage, not just rates." negotiating leverage, not just rates." Then he goes into this long strategy. Then he goes into this long strategy. Then he goes into this long strategy. >> Okay, this might be awesome. Actually, I >> Okay, this might be awesome. Actually, I >> Okay, this might be awesome. Actually, I don't have to give this guy 10% either. don't have to give this guy 10% either. don't have to give this guy 10% either. This is fantastic. This is fantastic. This is fantastic. >> Exactly. Exactly. >> Exactly. Exactly. >> Exactly. Exactly. >> All right. So that's that's Are you >> All right. So that's that's Are you >> All right. So that's that's Are you personally using AI in any interesting personally using AI in any interesting personally using AI in any interesting ways? ways? ways? >> I think there's some >> I think there's some >> I think there's some like simple stuff that's just too like simple stuff that's just too like simple stuff that's just too annoying for me to do. Like I my my wife annoying for me to do. Like I my my wife annoying for me to do. Like I my my wife and I my wife works at Meta. She has and I my wife works at Meta. She has and I my wife works at Meta. She has after after 5 years there you get a 5we after after 5 years there you get a 5we after after 5 years there you get a 5we break called recharge and we're like break called recharge and we're like break called recharge and we're like figuring out what to do and there's like figuring out what to do and there's like figuring out what to do and there's like a ton of research I'm trying to do and a ton of research I'm trying to do and a ton of research I'm trying to do and and one of the ideas is and one of the ideas is and one of the ideas is doing a road trip on a camper in a doing a road trip on a camper in a doing a road trip on a camper in a camper van in Europe and um there are camper van in Europe and um there are camper van in Europe and um there are these things called relocation specials these things called relocation specials these things called relocation specials that I've done a bunch of times where that I've done a bunch of times where that I've done a bunch of times where like they need to move a camper van from like they need to move a camper van from like they need to move a camper van from one place to another and they basically one place to another and they basically one place to another and they basically give you the camper van for free and you give you the camper van for free and you give you the camper van for free and you can like move it over a couple weeks can like move it over a couple weeks can like move it over a couple weeks I've done it multiple times and it's I've done it multiple times and it's I've done it multiple times and it's it's fun because you take the camper van it's fun because you take the camper van it's fun because you take the camper van one way. Normally you have to take it one way. Normally you have to take it one way. Normally you have to take it and bring it back to the same place, and bring it back to the same place, and bring it back to the same place, right? right? right? >> This is both cheap and you don't have to >> This is both cheap and you don't have to >> This is both cheap and you don't have to bring it back to the same place bring it back to the same place bring it back to the same place >> and it'll be usually be like a new van. >> and it'll be usually be like a new van. >> and it'll be usually be like a new van. They have to move from the factory They have to move from the factory They have to move from the factory somewhere else. somewhere else. somewhere else. >> So it's like what is it private jets? >> So it's like what is it private jets? >> So it's like what is it private jets? Empty legs or what? Empty legs or what? Empty legs or what? >> Empty legs. Yeah, kind of like empty >> Empty legs. Yeah, kind of like empty >> Empty legs. Yeah, kind of like empty legs. Uh but but for for the the normal legs. Uh but but for for the the normal legs. Uh but but for for the the normal people like us. So I I've had AI do a people like us. So I I've had AI do a people like us. So I I've had AI do a bunch of research and find it for me. bunch of research and find it for me. bunch of research and find it for me. message message the camper van places message message the camper van places message message the camper van places and ask them ask them that's been kind and ask them ask them that's been kind and ask them ask them that's been kind of fun and useful. Um I of fun and useful. Um I of fun and useful. Um I for this event I had I uh wanted to save for this event I had I uh wanted to save for this event I had I uh wanted to save some money and uh had some money and uh had some money and uh had had AI do an exam for me to become like had AI do an exam for me to become like had AI do an exam for me to become like a licensed travel person. I saved 16% on a licensed travel person. I saved 16% on a licensed travel person. I saved 16% on this big big event. this big big event. this big big event. >> So you needed to become a life licensed >> So you needed to become a life licensed >> So you needed to become a life licensed uh what travel agent or what did you uh what travel agent or what did you uh what travel agent or what did you have to become? Yeah, it was it was sort have to become? Yeah, it was it was sort have to become? Yeah, it was it was sort of a hack because uh one of my portfolio of a hack because uh one of my portfolio of a hack because uh one of my portfolio companies helped me that is in the companies helped me that is in the companies helped me that is in the travel space, but I had to do I had to travel space, but I had to do I had to travel space, but I had to do I had to do these exams. It was like I don't do these exams. It was like I don't do these exams. It was like I don't remember how many hours. It was like 10 remember how many hours. It was like 10 remember how many hours. It was like 10 hours of training and then some exam and hours of training and then some exam and hours of training and then some exam and I just I had uh AI do it for me I just I had uh AI do it for me I just I had uh AI do it for me >> and so it it goes through all the >> and so it it goes through all the >> and so it it goes through all the training material. It took the exam as training material. It took the exam as training material. It took the exam as well or well or well or >> took the exam as >> took the exam as >> took the exam as amazing. Um all right, I wanted you had amazing. Um all right, I wanted you had amazing. Um all right, I wanted you had this tweet a little while back I wanted this tweet a little while back I wanted this tweet a little while back I wanted I've been wanting to ask you about. So I've been wanting to ask you about. So I've been wanting to ask you about. So you were somebody tweeted out they said you were somebody tweeted out they said you were somebody tweeted out they said the worst mistakes are decisions in the worst mistakes are decisions in the worst mistakes are decisions in human history and they were you know human history and they were you know human history and they were you know Adam and Eve eating from the forbidden Adam and Eve eating from the forbidden Adam and Eve eating from the forbidden dream the mavs trading luca right so dream the mavs trading luca right so dream the mavs trading luca right so they were just going through random they were just going through random they were just going through random examples and then you had a bunch from examples and then you had a bunch from examples and then you had a bunch from the business world I wanted to to to go the business world I wanted to to to go the business world I wanted to to to go through this I was curious if you have through this I was curious if you have through this I was curious if you have any you know tell some of these stories any you know tell some of these stories any you know tell some of these stories I don't think I don't think all these I don't think I don't think all these I don't think I don't think all these stories are super wellknown totally a stories are super wellknown totally a stories are super wellknown totally a lot of them are this like innovator's lot of them are this like innovator's lot of them are this like innovator's dilemma that's kind of a broad theme dilemma that's kind of a broad theme dilemma that's kind of a broad theme which is so Kodak, they invented the which is so Kodak, they invented the which is so Kodak, they invented the digital camera and then they didn't sell digital camera and then they didn't sell digital camera and then they didn't sell it because they were worried it would it because they were worried it would it because they were worried it would suppress their film sales and then all suppress their film sales and then all suppress their film sales and then all these other companies started selling these other companies started selling these other companies started selling digital cameras and then Kodak basically digital cameras and then Kodak basically digital cameras and then Kodak basically went out of business. went out of business. went out of business. >> It's like kind of the worst way to lose, >> It's like kind of the worst way to lose, >> It's like kind of the worst way to lose, right? Like that's my nightmare as a right? Like that's my nightmare as a right? Like that's my nightmare as a business. business. business. >> Exactly. And then the same thing >> Exactly. And then the same thing >> Exactly. And then the same thing happened with Excite. So Excite had an happened with Excite. So Excite had an happened with Excite. So Excite had an like Google wanted to sell to Excite for like Google wanted to sell to Excite for like Google wanted to sell to Excite for $750,000 very early on. And it was just $750,000 very early on. And it was just $750,000 very early on. And it was just Larry and Sergey wanted to sell this Larry and Sergey wanted to sell this Larry and Sergey wanted to sell this idea to them and Excite said um we don't idea to them and Excite said um we don't idea to them and Excite said um we don't want them to get answers, we want them want them to get answers, we want them want them to get answers, we want them to stay on the page so we can serve up to stay on the page so we can serve up to stay on the page so we can serve up ads and then so obviously the rest is ads and then so obviously the rest is ads and then so obviously the rest is history there. So th those are kind of history there. So th those are kind of history there. So th those are kind of like like like >> a theme is >> a theme is >> a theme is you would cannibalize our business so you would cannibalize our business so you would cannibalize our business so we're not going to do it. And that we're not going to do it. And that we're not going to do it. And that actually like back to our early actually like back to our early actually like back to our early discussion about AI that's one that I I discussion about AI that's one that I I discussion about AI that's one that I I was worried that Google would get into. was worried that Google would get into. was worried that Google would get into. I think a lot of people were worried I think a lot of people were worried I think a lot of people were worried Google would have that problem and Google would have that problem and Google would have that problem and Google stock was really in the [ __ ] Google stock was really in the [ __ ] Google stock was really in the [ __ ] like a year and a half ago and then as like a year and a half ago and then as like a year and a half ago and then as Google like Gemini became great and Google like Gemini became great and Google like Gemini became great and people realized okay like Cinder's not people realized okay like Cinder's not people realized okay like Cinder's not just sitting back saying I'm not going just sitting back saying I'm not going just sitting back saying I'm not going to I'm not going to do this like he's to I'm not going to do this like he's to I'm not going to do this like he's doing it too and and then Google stock doing it too and and then Google stock doing it too and and then Google stock has done really well but I think that has done really well but I think that has done really well but I think that that was a big worry people had because that was a big worry people had because that was a big worry people had because how Google makes money is on ads when how Google makes money is on ads when how Google makes money is on ads when you're searching for stuff and if you're you're searching for stuff and if you're you're searching for stuff and if you're not searching for stuff like their not searching for stuff like their not searching for stuff like their entire revenue model goes away, entire revenue model goes away, entire revenue model goes away, >> right? Yeah, that's that's a good one. >> right? Yeah, that's that's a good one. >> right? Yeah, that's that's a good one. Um, what about this story of uh it seems Um, what about this story of uh it seems Um, what about this story of uh it seems like another one is like selling early. like another one is like selling early. like another one is like selling early. Um, that's the Ron Wayne story. So, Um, that's the Ron Wayne story. So, Um, that's the Ron Wayne story. So, what's the what's the Ron Wayne story? what's the what's the Ron Wayne story? what's the what's the Ron Wayne story? >> Yeah, Ron Wayne was a co-founder of >> Yeah, Ron Wayne was a co-founder of >> Yeah, Ron Wayne was a co-founder of Apple with Jobs in Waznjak and very Apple with Jobs in Waznjak and very Apple with Jobs in Waznjak and very early on he uh he had a 10% stake in the early on he uh he had a 10% stake in the early on he uh he had a 10% stake in the company and he thought it wasn't going company and he thought it wasn't going company and he thought it wasn't going to be worth anything and wanted to focus to be worth anything and wanted to focus to be worth anything and wanted to focus on other stuff. So he sold a steak back on other stuff. So he sold a steak back on other stuff. So he sold a steak back to them for $800, to them for $800, to them for $800, which which which >> oh my god $100, not even like 800 grand. >> oh my god $100, not even like 800 grand. >> oh my god $100, not even like 800 grand. Uh so he owned 10% of Apple. He's like Uh so he owned 10% of Apple. He's like Uh so he owned 10% of Apple. He's like kind of written out of history if he was kind of written out of history if he was kind of written out of history if he was I didn't know he was actually like a I didn't know he was actually like a I didn't know he was actually like a co-founder. What what did he do? What co-founder. What what did he do? What co-founder. What what did he do? What was this guy's role? Wak's making the was this guy's role? Wak's making the was this guy's role? Wak's making the computer. Jobs is Jobs. computer. Jobs is Jobs. computer. Jobs is Jobs. >> He worked at Atari with um with Jobs and >> He worked at Atari with um with Jobs and >> He worked at Atari with um with Jobs and and Waznjak. He was actually one of the and Waznjak. He was actually one of the and Waznjak. He was actually one of the early people that brought them together early people that brought them together early people that brought them together and he was like, "Let's figure out a new and he was like, "Let's figure out a new and he was like, "Let's figure out a new business opportunity." And I think it business opportunity." And I think it business opportunity." And I think it was actually like in his home that they was actually like in his home that they was actually like in his home that they created the idea for Apple and um and it created the idea for Apple and um and it created the idea for Apple and um and it was like it was split between uh Waznjak was like it was split between uh Waznjak was like it was split between uh Waznjak and Jobs like I think they each owned and Jobs like I think they each owned and Jobs like I think they each owned 45%. But Wayne for like bringing them 45%. But Wayne for like bringing them 45%. But Wayne for like bringing them together he was like he was like the together he was like he was like the together he was like he was like the adult the original adult in the room, adult the original adult in the room, adult the original adult in the room, >> right? And then I think there was >> right? And then I think there was >> right? And then I think there was something where like Steve Jobs got a something where like Steve Jobs got a something where like Steve Jobs got a line of credit that they would be line of credit that they would be line of credit that they would be personally liable for to start like to personally liable for to start like to personally liable for to start like to purchase materials to to fulfill an purchase materials to to fulfill an purchase materials to to fulfill an order. And so Ronwin was like, "Listen, order. And so Ronwin was like, "Listen, order. And so Ronwin was like, "Listen, I can't be personally liable for this. I can't be personally liable for this. I can't be personally liable for this. I'm out." And he sold his shares back I'm out." And he sold his shares back I'm out." And he sold his shares back for 800 bucks. for 800 bucks. for 800 bucks. >> What happened to this guy? Is he has he >> What happened to this guy? Is he has he >> What happened to this guy? Is he has he talked about this? Did he end up doing talked about this? Did he end up doing talked about this? Did he end up doing okay? Like uh there was a guy who was a okay? Like uh there was a guy who was a okay? Like uh there was a guy who was a partner with Buffett and Munger. Forgot partner with Buffett and Munger. Forgot partner with Buffett and Munger. Forgot what his name is. Rick something. and he what his name is. Rick something. and he what his name is. Rick something. and he he got overleveraged. He had to sell his he got overleveraged. He had to sell his he got overleveraged. He had to sell his stake back to Buffett and Munger and stake back to Buffett and Munger and stake back to Buffett and Munger and basically missed out on Birkshshire and basically missed out on Birkshshire and basically missed out on Birkshshire and you know he ended up doing well outside you know he ended up doing well outside you know he ended up doing well outside of it but like you know a cautionary of it but like you know a cautionary of it but like you know a cautionary tale for like kind of Buffett I think tale for like kind of Buffett I think tale for like kind of Buffett I think said it best. He goes uh you know Rick said it best. He goes uh you know Rick said it best. He goes uh you know Rick was in a hurry and he's like me and was in a hurry and he's like me and was in a hurry and he's like me and Charlie we were not and that was the Charlie we were not and that was the Charlie we were not and that was the difference. difference. difference. >> Yeah. I I looked it up afterwards Wayne >> Yeah. I I looked it up afterwards Wayne >> Yeah. I I looked it up afterwards Wayne ran a stamp shop in Mil Disco. Yeah, this is going to be like a Netflix Yeah, this is going to be like a Netflix original someday. original someday. original someday. >> Tell me about this one. So, you said >> Tell me about this one. So, you said >> Tell me about this one. So, you said SoftBank, they own 5% of Nvidia. SoftBank, they own 5% of Nvidia. SoftBank, they own 5% of Nvidia. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And they sold it to plow all the money >> And they sold it to plow all the money >> And they sold it to plow all the money into Wei Work. And I'm I'm what I'm into Wei Work. And I'm I'm what I'm into Wei Work. And I'm I'm what I'm interested to hear is actually your interested to hear is actually your interested to hear is actually your opinion on um MASA. So, I don't I don't opinion on um MASA. So, I don't I don't opinion on um MASA. So, I don't I don't know a lot about the guy, but um I can't know a lot about the guy, but um I can't know a lot about the guy, but um I can't tell. Is this guy a genius or an idiot? tell. Is this guy a genius or an idiot? tell. Is this guy a genius or an idiot? um like you know when they um when he um like you know when they um when he um like you know when they um when he released like his like I believe in AI released like his like I believe in AI released like his like I believe in AI raise the vision fund and he releases raise the vision fund and he releases raise the vision fund and he releases the deck and it's like a picture of like the deck and it's like a picture of like the deck and it's like a picture of like a unicorn flying and it's like there's a unicorn flying and it's like there's a unicorn flying and it's like there's not a two-cllable word in this deck. You not a two-cllable word in this deck. You not a two-cllable word in this deck. You know what I mean? Like it's like this is know what I mean? Like it's like this is know what I mean? Like it's like this is made by children but this is actually made by children but this is actually made by children but this is actually the deck and the vision of this like the the deck and the vision of this like the the deck and the vision of this like the biggest venture fund in the world. Did biggest venture fund in the world. Did biggest venture fund in the world. Did he just get lucky? is this is just a guy he just get lucky? is this is just a guy he just get lucky? is this is just a guy who got lucky and it's kind of like uh who got lucky and it's kind of like uh who got lucky and it's kind of like uh you know I've been to casinos where I you know I've been to casinos where I you know I've been to casinos where I play against you know some random ch you play against you know some random ch you play against you know some random ch you know guy who's some Asian guy who's got know guy who's some Asian guy who's got know guy who's some Asian guy who's got a huge chip stack and then you you're a huge chip stack and then you you're a huge chip stack and then you you're like wow you assume he must be great and like wow you assume he must be great and like wow you assume he must be great and then you realize like oh no this guy is then you realize like oh no this guy is then you realize like oh no this guy is like superstitious and if this is like superstitious and if this is like superstitious and if this is happening he goes all in and he just happening he goes all in and he just happening he goes all in and he just happened to win right like what's the happened to win right like what's the happened to win right like what's the story of Masa is he a genius or an idiot story of Masa is he a genius or an idiot story of Masa is he a genius or an idiot >> yeah listen I know people who have >> yeah listen I know people who have >> yeah listen I know people who have pitched him and people who have worked pitched him and people who have worked pitched him and people who have worked with him who are still wondering the with him who are still wondering the with him who are still wondering the answer to that question. answer to that question. answer to that question. I don't know. I mean, so like the I don't know. I mean, so like the I don't know. I mean, so like the backstory for people who don't know is backstory for people who don't know is backstory for people who don't know is he had this legendary bet which was on he had this legendary bet which was on he had this legendary bet which was on Alibaba. He invested them very early on Alibaba. He invested them very early on Alibaba. He invested them very early on after he met Jack Ma. He put in $20 after he met Jack Ma. He put in $20 after he met Jack Ma. He put in $20 million and it turned into $100 billion. million and it turned into $100 billion. million and it turned into $100 billion. >> So like just like this massive >> So like just like this massive >> So like just like this massive >> and he had the 20 million from what he >> and he had the 20 million from what he >> and he had the 20 million from what he he created like CES, right? Is it was he created like CES, right? Is it was he created like CES, right? Is it was that the first thing he created like that the first thing he created like that the first thing he created like these tech conferences or magazines? these tech conferences or magazines? these tech conferences or magazines? >> Bank was like a software distributor and >> Bank was like a software distributor and >> Bank was like a software distributor and publisher and it was like really big in publisher and it was like really big in publisher and it was like really big in in Japan and he partnered they partnered in Japan and he partnered they partnered in Japan and he partnered they partnered with Yahoo to create Yahoo Japan which with Yahoo to create Yahoo Japan which with Yahoo to create Yahoo Japan which Yahoo Japan ended up being way more Yahoo Japan ended up being way more Yahoo Japan ended up being way more successful than Yahoo in the US. And so successful than Yahoo in the US. And so successful than Yahoo in the US. And so they because it was a JV they like Yahoo they because it was a JV they like Yahoo they because it was a JV they like Yahoo only owned a small part of it. I think only owned a small part of it. I think only owned a small part of it. I think SoftBank owned more and they had a bunch SoftBank owned more and they had a bunch SoftBank owned more and they had a bunch of money from Yahoo Japan and I think of money from Yahoo Japan and I think of money from Yahoo Japan and I think that's what he plowed into Aliba. that's what he plowed into Aliba. that's what he plowed into Aliba. >> Okay. So, he was a good entrepreneur at >> Okay. So, he was a good entrepreneur at >> Okay. So, he was a good entrepreneur at least. All right. A great entrepreneur. least. All right. A great entrepreneur. least. All right. A great entrepreneur. >> I think he's like and he's very risky. >> I think he's like and he's very risky. >> I think he's like and he's very risky. Like he's fully risk like he lost all of Like he's fully risk like he lost all of Like he's fully risk like he lost all of his money then gained it back and then his money then gained it back and then his money then gained it back and then you know does it again. And he's like you know does it again. And he's like you know does it again. And he's like he'll he'll like go full leverage like he'll he'll like go full leverage like he'll he'll like go full leverage like all out debt. And look with the vision all out debt. And look with the vision all out debt. And look with the vision fund hundred billion dollar fund. What's fund hundred billion dollar fund. What's fund hundred billion dollar fund. What's crazy is a hundred billion dollar fund crazy is a hundred billion dollar fund crazy is a hundred billion dollar fund seemed so crazy that it was like is it seemed so crazy that it was like is it seemed so crazy that it was like is it even real? Is this April Fool's Day? even real? Is this April Fool's Day? even real? Is this April Fool's Day? Like when it launched whatever, six, Like when it launched whatever, six, Like when it launched whatever, six, seven years or no, I guess now eight seven years or no, I guess now eight seven years or no, I guess now eight eight eight or nine years ago. And they eight eight or nine years ago. And they eight eight or nine years ago. And they wrote massive checks into a bunch of wrote massive checks into a bunch of wrote massive checks into a bunch of companies sometimes competing companies. companies sometimes competing companies. companies sometimes competing companies. And I I never thought it would work and And I I never thought it would work and And I I never thought it would work and my main reasoning for at the time my main reasoning for at the time my main reasoning for at the time thinking it wouldn't work was the thinking it wouldn't work was the thinking it wouldn't work was the companies that need a lot of money are companies that need a lot of money are companies that need a lot of money are not necessarily the companies that you not necessarily the companies that you not necessarily the companies that you want to plow money into. like it ended want to plow money into. like it ended want to plow money into. like it ended up being a lot of like money losing up being a lot of like money losing up being a lot of like money losing companies um that now eventually like companies um that now eventually like companies um that now eventually like many of them ended up being successful many of them ended up being successful many of them ended up being successful like Uber and Door Dash but you know like Uber and Door Dash but you know like Uber and Door Dash but you know then there was we work which I think then there was we work which I think then there was we work which I think they put the most money into. they put the most money into. they put the most money into. >> Yeah. So what's the verdict on the >> Yeah. So what's the verdict on the >> Yeah. So what's the verdict on the vision fund? It it did did well. Are we vision fund? It it did did well. Are we vision fund? It it did did well. Are we just too early to say or not? just too early to say or not? just too early to say or not? >> I think it ended up being okay. It's an >> I think it ended up being okay. It's an >> I think it ended up being okay. It's an okay fund. It's not great, but like if okay fund. It's not great, but like if okay fund. It's not great, but like if you're looking to deploy a million you're looking to deploy a million you're looking to deploy a million dollars, like there are ways you can get dollars, like there are ways you can get dollars, like there are ways you can get >> right five10 million dollars. Like if >> right five10 million dollars. Like if >> right five10 million dollars. Like if you invest in a good fund, you invest in a good fund, you invest in a good fund, >> if you're deploying a hundred million >> if you're deploying a hundred million >> if you're deploying a hundred million dollars, like you're not expecting to 5x dollars, like you're not expecting to 5x dollars, like you're not expecting to 5x it. If you it. If you it. If you >> one and a half, 2x it, maybe that's okay >> one and a half, 2x it, maybe that's okay >> one and a half, 2x it, maybe that's okay depending on timeline. depending on timeline. depending on timeline. >> Gotcha. Um, what do you think people >> Gotcha. Um, what do you think people >> Gotcha. Um, what do you think people should be paying attention to? And maybe should be paying attention to? And maybe should be paying attention to? And maybe the better way of asking that is what the better way of asking that is what the better way of asking that is what are things you're paying attention to are things you're paying attention to are things you're paying attention to right now that you don't think a lot of right now that you don't think a lot of right now that you don't think a lot of other people are or you know the masses other people are or you know the masses other people are or you know the masses maybe or or uh even like general maybe or or uh even like general maybe or or uh even like general population of smart individuals right so population of smart individuals right so population of smart individuals right so not not like literally the average not not like literally the average not not like literally the average American but also not the guys at your American but also not the guys at your American but also not the guys at your VC dinner so somebody in between right VC dinner so somebody in between right VC dinner so somebody in between right the general smart person what are they the general smart person what are they the general smart person what are they not what are they underweaiting paying not what are they underweaiting paying not what are they underweaiting paying less attention to um thinking about the less attention to um thinking about the less attention to um thinking about the wrong way that you you you were paying wrong way that you you you were paying wrong way that you you you were paying attention to differently attention to differently attention to differently >> I think everyone And I'm encouraging my >> I think everyone And I'm encouraging my >> I think everyone And I'm encouraging my parents to do it too should just be and parents to do it too should just be and parents to do it too should just be and this is like an easy answer should be this is like an easy answer should be this is like an easy answer should be just using AI more. Um I think when my just using AI more. Um I think when my just using AI more. Um I think when my parents give me an assignment like my parents give me an assignment like my parents give me an assignment like my parents often are like hey shil can you parents often are like hey shil can you parents often are like hey shil can you book this for me? I'm their personal book this for me? I'm their personal book this for me? I'm their personal assistant and now I'm trying to teach assistant and now I'm trying to teach assistant and now I'm trying to teach them to use AI and actually they're them to use AI and actually they're them to use AI and actually they're doing it and it it actually kind of doing it and it it actually kind of doing it and it it actually kind of surprised me, but they're but they're surprised me, but they're but they're surprised me, but they're but they're they're able to look stuff up on AI that they're able to look stuff up on AI that they're able to look stuff up on AI that they you know they weren't doing a month they you know they weren't doing a month they you know they weren't doing a month ago and they're getting answers and I'm ago and they're getting answers and I'm ago and they're getting answers and I'm also encouraging them not to send me also encouraging them not to send me also encouraging them not to send me like stupid fake forwards and to look like stupid fake forwards and to look like stupid fake forwards and to look everything up and make sure it's it's everything up and make sure it's it's everything up and make sure it's it's legit. legit. legit. >> I'm curious if you have any >> I'm curious if you have any >> I'm curious if you have any non-consensus or contrarian opinions non-consensus or contrarian opinions non-consensus or contrarian opinions about something. So for example, you about something. So for example, you about something. So for example, you know, most people think that XYZ is, you know, most people think that XYZ is, you know, most people think that XYZ is, you know, kind of useless, but actually I know, kind of useless, but actually I know, kind of useless, but actually I think that's wrong. I think this is think that's wrong. I think this is think that's wrong. I think this is amazing. I'll give you I'll give you a amazing. I'll give you I'll give you a amazing. I'll give you I'll give you a simple example. So Brian Johnson was simple example. So Brian Johnson was simple example. So Brian Johnson was initially, I would say, completely initially, I would say, completely initially, I would say, completely overlooked. overlooked. overlooked. >> The first time we had him on the >> The first time we had him on the >> The first time we had him on the podcast, he really wasn't like Brian podcast, he really wasn't like Brian podcast, he really wasn't like Brian Johnson, the kind of media personality Johnson, the kind of media personality Johnson, the kind of media personality at the time. He didn't have a big social at the time. He didn't have a big social at the time. He didn't have a big social med. He just had his website, his blog med. He just had his website, his blog med. He just had his website, his blog where he's uploading like his own like where he's uploading like his own like where he's uploading like his own like blood markers to. And we were like, "Oh, blood markers to. And we were like, "Oh, blood markers to. And we were like, "Oh, this is cool. those guys like really this is cool. those guys like really this is cool. those guys like really tracking everything and he's publishing tracking everything and he's publishing tracking everything and he's publishing it on a blog and then Brian Johnson it on a blog and then Brian Johnson it on a blog and then Brian Johnson became this like kind of like beacon of became this like kind of like beacon of became this like kind of like beacon of longevity and then people are like wait longevity and then people are like wait longevity and then people are like wait is he a vampire what's going on over is he a vampire what's going on over is he a vampire what's going on over here like is this too much and so he here like is this too much and so he here like is this too much and so he became this like polarized figure and became this like polarized figure and became this like polarized figure and now he's like full-on like YouTuber now he's like full-on like YouTuber now he's like full-on like YouTuber content creator and so one of my like content creator and so one of my like content creator and so one of my like opinions that I don't think a lot of opinions that I don't think a lot of opinions that I don't think a lot of people share or even have thought much people share or even have thought much people share or even have thought much about is I think Brian Johnson might be about is I think Brian Johnson might be about is I think Brian Johnson might be the best content creator on earth right the best content creator on earth right the best content creator on earth right now you know like I just think he's like now you know like I just think he's like now you know like I just think he's like running circles around everybody in the running circles around everybody in the running circles around everybody in the same way that when people saw saw what same way that when people saw saw what same way that when people saw saw what the Kardashians were doing early on or the Kardashians were doing early on or the Kardashians were doing early on or the Paul brothers, it was really easy to the Paul brothers, it was really easy to the Paul brothers, it was really easy to dismiss as, you know, sort of s silly, dismiss as, you know, sort of s silly, dismiss as, you know, sort of s silly, stupid, useless, whatever. And then stupid, useless, whatever. And then stupid, useless, whatever. And then like, you know, fast forward a decade like, you know, fast forward a decade like, you know, fast forward a decade and they've built these really big and they've built these really big and they've built these really big empires off of that. I think what Brian empires off of that. I think what Brian empires off of that. I think what Brian Johnson is doing on social media is uh Johnson is doing on social media is uh Johnson is doing on social media is uh incredible. And it just I literally as incredible. And it just I literally as incredible. And it just I literally as just a content creator, like I just just a content creator, like I just just a content creator, like I just think what he's done is is is genius. I think what he's done is is is genius. I think what he's done is is is genius. I think a lot of folks especially going think a lot of folks especially going think a lot of folks especially going into a new area they weren't before they into a new area they weren't before they into a new area they weren't before they started on content and became successful started on content and became successful started on content and became successful that way and kind of like in our in my that way and kind of like in our in my that way and kind of like in our in my world of venture capital Andre and world of venture capital Andre and world of venture capital Andre and Horowitz like they basically all of the Horowitz like they basically all of the Horowitz like they basically all of the storied venture firms are pretty old storied venture firms are pretty old storied venture firms are pretty old they were around in the do bubble the they were around in the do bubble the they were around in the do bubble the only new one is Andre Horowitz and the only new one is Andre Horowitz and the only new one is Andre Horowitz and the way they did it was by like owning and way they did it was by like owning and way they did it was by like owning and controlling the media and they've done a controlling the media and they've done a controlling the media and they've done a really good job at it they have a lot of really good job at it they have a lot of really good job at it they have a lot of They put out a lot of content and it's They put out a lot of content and it's They put out a lot of content and it's worked for them worked for them worked for them >> and that was pretty strategic of them, >> and that was pretty strategic of them, >> and that was pretty strategic of them, right? So like they they they enter the right? So like they they they enter the right? So like they they they enter the VC world, they want to do well. You to VC world, they want to do well. You to VC world, they want to do well. You to do well in the VC world, you need to do well in the VC world, you need to do well in the VC world, you need to have brand that will either bring deals have brand that will either bring deals have brand that will either bring deals to you or get you access into a deal to you or get you access into a deal to you or get you access into a deal when you want it to to be able to go when you want it to to be able to go when you want it to to be able to go lead that round, right? lead that round, right? lead that round, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And so I guess like give me the inside >> And so I guess like give me the inside >> And so I guess like give me the inside baseball there. What did they how did baseball there. What did they how did baseball there. What did they how did they approach that problem? How did they they approach that problem? How did they they approach that problem? How did they how did they solve that problem? how did they solve that problem? how did they solve that problem? >> Yeah. So you need a brand. You want to >> Yeah. So you need a brand. You want to >> Yeah. So you need a brand. You want to be recognized and the way they did it be recognized and the way they did it be recognized and the way they did it like so first of all it's only like 15 like so first of all it's only like 15 like so first of all it's only like 15 years old Andre Norwitz and if you if years old Andre Norwitz and if you if years old Andre Norwitz and if you if you look at the other storyried firms you look at the other storyried firms you look at the other storyried firms Benchmark Sequoia etc they're a lot Benchmark Sequoia etc they're a lot Benchmark Sequoia etc they're a lot older and they they really earned their older and they they really earned their older and they they really earned their reputation Sequoia even earlier but reputation Sequoia even earlier but reputation Sequoia even earlier but Benchmark in the com era so these guys Benchmark in the com era so these guys Benchmark in the com era so these guys basically said like we we're going to do basically said like we we're going to do basically said like we we're going to do it differently and we're going to it differently and we're going to it differently and we're going to provide instead of just having one provide instead of just having one provide instead of just having one partner to work with you're going to partner to work with you're going to partner to work with you're going to work with a whole team of people and work with a whole team of people and work with a whole team of people and We're going to support it with content. We're going to support it with content. We're going to support it with content. So, um, we're going to promote our So, um, we're going to promote our So, um, we're going to promote our portfolio with content, but also people portfolio with content, but also people portfolio with content, but also people are going to listen to that content. are going to listen to that content. are going to listen to that content. They're going to think about Andrea and They're going to think about Andrea and They're going to think about Andrea and Horowitz and think like those are smart Horowitz and think like those are smart Horowitz and think like those are smart people I want to raise from. people I want to raise from. people I want to raise from. >> And it really like before Andre >> And it really like before Andre >> And it really like before Andre Horowitz, there was not a lot of content Horowitz, there was not a lot of content Horowitz, there was not a lot of content on venture. Like a couple guys had blogs on venture. Like a couple guys had blogs on venture. Like a couple guys had blogs and Andre totally changed the game and and Andre totally changed the game and and Andre totally changed the game and they actually they learned from Michael they actually they learned from Michael they actually they learned from Michael Oitz. I think Oitz did a lot in building Oitz. I think Oitz did a lot in building Oitz. I think Oitz did a lot in building this CAA into this like you have this this CAA into this like you have this this CAA into this like you have this whole team of support around you and whole team of support around you and whole team of support around you and that's what Andre modeled it off of. that's what Andre modeled it off of. that's what Andre modeled it off of. >> Right. Right. >> Right. Right. >> Right. Right. >> Yeah. It seems like you know you had >> Yeah. It seems like you know you had >> Yeah. It seems like you know you had Fred Wilson have a blog or whatever. Fred Wilson have a blog or whatever. Fred Wilson have a blog or whatever. Yeah. And I've seen this now in a couple Yeah. And I've seen this now in a couple Yeah. And I've seen this now in a couple spaces where we all think we're doing spaces where we all think we're doing spaces where we all think we're doing the thing. Like I would say at the time the thing. Like I would say at the time the thing. Like I would say at the time there were some VCs who thought we were there were some VCs who thought we were there were some VCs who thought we were doing content. What do you mean? Oh doing content. What do you mean? Oh doing content. What do you mean? Oh yeah. I have my blog. And then they're yeah. I have my blog. And then they're yeah. I have my blog. And then they're like somebody brings the gun to a knife like somebody brings the gun to a knife like somebody brings the gun to a knife fight where they're like, "Oh, here's fight where they're like, "Oh, here's fight where they're like, "Oh, here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna invest what we're gonna do. We're gonna invest what we're gonna do. We're gonna invest essentially, you know, like 10 I I would essentially, you know, like 10 I I would essentially, you know, like 10 I I would How much do you think they spend every How much do you think they spend every How much do you think they spend every year on just the media and content year on just the media and content year on just the media and content side?" Uh like what do you what do you side?" Uh like what do you what do you side?" Uh like what do you what do you think is the expense part of the P&L for think is the expense part of the P&L for think is the expense part of the P&L for them? them? them? >> It's got to be >> It's got to be >> It's got to be easily tens of millions. easily tens of millions. easily tens of millions. >> Easily tens of millions. Exactly. Tens >> Easily tens of millions. Exactly. Tens >> Easily tens of millions. Exactly. Tens of millions of dollars on content. And of millions of dollars on content. And of millions of dollars on content. And so you're like, "We're doing content." so you're like, "We're doing content." so you're like, "We're doing content." And then they were like, "Well, here's And then they were like, "Well, here's And then they were like, "Well, here's what we're going to do. We're going to what we're going to do. We're going to what we're going to do. We're going to build this like a company." and we're build this like a company." and we're build this like a company." and we're going to like they made acquisitions in going to like they made acquisitions in going to like they made acquisitions in that space, right? They bought Eric's that space, right? They bought Eric's that space, right? They bought Eric's company. They u they have huge teams of company. They u they have huge teams of company. They u they have huge teams of people. They create multiple shows. They people. They create multiple shows. They people. They create multiple shows. They like have studios sets. They go on tour. like have studios sets. They go on tour. like have studios sets. They go on tour. They're spending a huge portion of their They're spending a huge portion of their They're spending a huge portion of their time just going on other shows. And so time just going on other shows. And so time just going on other shows. And so they go in with just a level of they go in with just a level of they go in with just a level of seriousness and scale that just blows seriousness and scale that just blows seriousness and scale that just blows other people out of the water. And I've other people out of the water. And I've other people out of the water. And I've seen this over and over again. The seen this over and over again. The seen this over and over again. The Charlie Mer quote, take a simple idea, Charlie Mer quote, take a simple idea, Charlie Mer quote, take a simple idea, but take it seriously. Uh where it's but take it seriously. Uh where it's but take it seriously. Uh where it's like, we're doing this, right? The Mr. like, we're doing this, right? The Mr. like, we're doing this, right? The Mr. Beast like we got to know Jimmy recently Beast like we got to know Jimmy recently Beast like we got to know Jimmy recently like the last few years and like he did like the last few years and like he did like the last few years and like he did the same thing like YouTubers were a the same thing like YouTubers were a the same thing like YouTubers were a thing and YouTubers would do these thing and YouTubers would do these thing and YouTubers would do these stunts or challenges and he just took stunts or challenges and he just took stunts or challenges and he just took that simple idea way more seriously than that simple idea way more seriously than that simple idea way more seriously than everybody else. everybody else. everybody else. >> He's like well I'm going to put all the >> He's like well I'm going to put all the >> He's like well I'm going to put all the money into it. I'm going to build my own money into it. I'm going to build my own money into it. I'm going to build my own sets. I'm going to if you ever been to sets. I'm going to if you ever been to sets. I'm going to if you ever been to his place like a I mean it's like giant his place like a I mean it's like giant his place like a I mean it's like giant like he's got the biggest sound stage in like he's got the biggest sound stage in like he's got the biggest sound stage in North America. Like you know he's he's North America. Like you know he's he's North America. Like you know he's he's building the biggest sets. It's like a building the biggest sets. It's like a building the biggest sets. It's like a construction company when you walk construction company when you walk construction company when you walk through his his his area. Um, you know, through his his his area. Um, you know, through his his his area. Um, you know, he's got teams of people. Every dollar he's got teams of people. Every dollar he's got teams of people. Every dollar they make, they invest and more. They they make, they invest and more. They they make, they invest and more. They lose money on every video, right? Like lose money on every video, right? Like lose money on every video, right? Like YouTubers were like, "Hey, we're doing YouTubers were like, "Hey, we're doing YouTubers were like, "Hey, we're doing we're doing this, right?" And then he we're doing this, right?" And then he we're doing this, right?" And then he did it at a different level of scale and did it at a different level of scale and did it at a different level of scale and seriousness. And so I always find that seriousness. And so I always find that seriousness. And so I always find that interesting because whenever you go into interesting because whenever you go into interesting because whenever you go into a new space, sometimes the right idea is a new space, sometimes the right idea is a new space, sometimes the right idea is actually there. It just hasn't been like actually there. It just hasn't been like actually there. It just hasn't been like taken to the limit. And if you took it taken to the limit. And if you took it taken to the limit. And if you took it to the limit, which is also what Brian to the limit, which is also what Brian to the limit, which is also what Brian Johnson did by the way, like Johnson did by the way, like Johnson did by the way, like >> totally >> totally >> totally >> biohacking, quantified self, that was an >> biohacking, quantified self, that was an >> biohacking, quantified self, that was an existing community and he just took it existing community and he just took it existing community and he just took it to the limit. And and when you take it to the limit. And and when you take it to the limit. And and when you take it to the limit, like you get a whole new to the limit, like you get a whole new to the limit, like you get a whole new thing, a whole new level of success can thing, a whole new level of success can thing, a whole new level of success can emerge. emerge. emerge. >> I think a lot of these folks like if >> I think a lot of these folks like if >> I think a lot of these folks like if you're if you're starting at something you're if you're starting at something you're if you're starting at something new, you have to take it to the limit. new, you have to take it to the limit. new, you have to take it to the limit. >> Yeah. Uh you just uh sent me this thing. >> Yeah. Uh you just uh sent me this thing. >> Yeah. Uh you just uh sent me this thing. I've I've seen this before. So this is I've I've seen this before. So this is I've I've seen this before. So this is uh explain what this is. Uh explain uh explain what this is. Uh explain uh explain what this is. Uh explain this. this. this. >> I thought this might be fun. Basically, >> I thought this might be fun. Basically, >> I thought this might be fun. Basically, two weeks ago, I saw that the Breaking two weeks ago, I saw that the Breaking two weeks ago, I saw that the Breaking Bad house, you know, the house that that Bad house, you know, the house that that Bad house, you know, the house that that uh Brian Cranston throws the pizza on uh Brian Cranston throws the pizza on uh Brian Cranston throws the pizza on top of was for sale in Albuquerque. top of was for sale in Albuquerque. top of was for sale in Albuquerque. iconic iconic iconic >> iconic house for any of you anybody >> iconic house for any of you anybody >> iconic house for any of you anybody who's seen Breaking Bad. And so a friend who's seen Breaking Bad. And so a friend who's seen Breaking Bad. And so a friend of mine a friend of mine told me it was of mine a friend of mine told me it was of mine a friend of mine told me it was for sale and I was like we need to buy for sale and I was like we need to buy for sale and I was like we need to buy this. Was this like very publicized or this. Was this like very publicized or this. Was this like very publicized or like kind of a friend just noticed? Hey, like kind of a friend just noticed? Hey, like kind of a friend just noticed? Hey, that's the house. Like how how popular that's the house. Like how how popular that's the house. Like how how popular was it? was it? was it? >> Publicized like it got out there and it >> Publicized like it got out there and it >> Publicized like it got out there and it was listed at $400,000 because that's was listed at $400,000 because that's was listed at $400,000 because that's kind of it's kind of like a small it's kind of it's kind of like a small it's kind of it's kind of like a small it's like a 1900 foot house in the suburbs of like a 1900 foot house in the suburbs of like a 1900 foot house in the suburbs of Albuquerque like 25 minutes from Albuquerque like 25 minutes from Albuquerque like 25 minutes from downtown. And I immediately was like we downtown. And I immediately was like we downtown. And I immediately was like we need to buy this house. It was listed need to buy this house. It was listed need to buy this house. It was listed 400,000. 400,000. 400,000. And so we like booked a flight to And so we like booked a flight to And so we like booked a flight to Albuquerque like an hour later. Albuquerque like an hour later. Albuquerque like an hour later. And we like built this model around what And we like built this model around what And we like built this model around what are we going to do with this house? How are we going to do with this house? How are we going to do with this house? How much can we spend on? much can we spend on? much can we spend on? >> So So you you go to the house, does it >> So So you you go to the house, does it >> So So you you go to the house, does it look like the show inside still or it look like the show inside still or it look like the show inside still or it looks totally different? looks totally different? looks totally different? >> It looks totally different on the >> It looks totally different on the >> It looks totally different on the inside. inside. inside. >> Okay. So they they changed the inside. >> Okay. So they they changed the inside. >> Okay. So they they changed the inside. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Huge mistake. Um when they did the show, >> Huge mistake. Um when they did the show, >> Huge mistake. Um when they did the show, that was just someone's home basically. that was just someone's home basically. that was just someone's home basically. They They They >> rent and it's this family that's lived >> rent and it's this family that's lived >> rent and it's this family that's lived in the house since the 70s. They bought in the house since the 70s. They bought in the house since the 70s. They bought it for almost nothing in the ' 70s. And it for almost nothing in the ' 70s. And it for almost nothing in the ' 70s. And then they they like got a call from the then they they like got a call from the then they they like got a call from the show saying like, "Hey, your house looks show saying like, "Hey, your house looks show saying like, "Hey, your house looks like a normal house in Albuquerque that like a normal house in Albuquerque that like a normal house in Albuquerque that we might want to use for this." we might want to use for this." we might want to use for this." >> They only used the exterior of the >> They only used the exterior of the >> They only used the exterior of the house. They didn't use the interior of house. They didn't use the interior of house. They didn't use the interior of the house for filming. the house for filming. the house for filming. >> Oh, okay. Gotcha. And are they were they >> Oh, okay. Gotcha. And are they were they >> Oh, okay. Gotcha. And are they were they just annoyed people kept taking pictures just annoyed people kept taking pictures just annoyed people kept taking pictures of the house? Cuz in San Francisco, of the house? Cuz in San Francisco, of the house? Cuz in San Francisco, there's like the full house house that there's like the full house house that there's like the full house house that was totally was totally was totally >> couple blocks from me and just people >> couple blocks from me and just people >> couple blocks from me and just people were constantly stopping and taking were constantly stopping and taking were constantly stopping and taking photos of it. photos of it. photos of it. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's extremely annoying for >> Yeah. Yeah. It's extremely annoying for >> Yeah. Yeah. It's extremely annoying for them. So, so much so that they built a them. So, so much so that they built a them. So, so much so that they built a fence around the house so you couldn't fence around the house so you couldn't fence around the house so you couldn't actually like throw pizza over. And then actually like throw pizza over. And then actually like throw pizza over. And then the neighbors are pissed. It's not a the neighbors are pissed. It's not a the neighbors are pissed. It's not a good situation. So, they were like, good situation. So, they were like, good situation. So, they were like, "Let's sell this house." And they listed "Let's sell this house." And they listed "Let's sell this house." And they listed it for like fair market value might be it for like fair market value might be it for like fair market value might be $350,000 like looking at comps and they $350,000 like looking at comps and they $350,000 like looking at comps and they listed for 400,000. And they had tried listed for 400,000. And they had tried listed for 400,000. And they had tried to do like a museum or something, but to do like a museum or something, but to do like a museum or something, but they got they got shut down by the city. they got they got shut down by the city. they got they got shut down by the city. And so, it's been, you know, the show's And so, it's been, you know, the show's And so, it's been, you know, the show's been off for what, like 12 years. They been off for what, like 12 years. They been off for what, like 12 years. They could have they could have turned it could have they could have turned it could have they could have turned it into something amazing in the meantime, into something amazing in the meantime, into something amazing in the meantime, but they did. They just continued to but they did. They just continued to but they did. They just continued to live there. And so they sell for 400 live there. And so they sell for 400 live there. And so they sell for 400 they listed for $400,000. We say, "Okay, they listed for $400,000. We say, "Okay, they listed for $400,000. We say, "Okay, like how much can we make off this thing like how much can we make off this thing like how much can we make off this thing if we turn it into an Airbnb?" And I if we turn it into an Airbnb?" And I if we turn it into an Airbnb?" And I love experiences that are also the love experiences that are also the love experiences that are also the house. Like I stayed in Brian Chesy's house. Like I stayed in Brian Chesy's house. Like I stayed in Brian Chesy's house. I've stayed in this like I've house. I've stayed in this like I've house. I've stayed in this like I've stayed in a bunch of architects homes stayed in a bunch of architects homes stayed in a bunch of architects homes around the world. Like I love unique around the world. Like I love unique around the world. Like I love unique architecture. So I thought like I could architecture. So I thought like I could architecture. So I thought like I could turn this into an Airbnb. what what do turn this into an Airbnb. what what do turn this into an Airbnb. what what do we do? So, we like built this model we do? So, we like built this model we do? So, we like built this model around it. Like assuming we assumed we around it. Like assuming we assumed we around it. Like assuming we assumed we could charge $800 a night versus like could charge $800 a night versus like could charge $800 a night versus like it's a four-bedroom place. In the area, it's a four-bedroom place. In the area, it's a four-bedroom place. In the area, you might be able to charge $250 a you might be able to charge $250 a you might be able to charge $250 a night, but given given that it's an night, but given given that it's an night, but given given that it's an iconic place, like if I went to iconic place, like if I went to iconic place, like if I went to Albuquerque with some friends, I would Albuquerque with some friends, I would Albuquerque with some friends, I would definitely want to stay in the house. It definitely want to stay in the house. It definitely want to stay in the house. It would be worth it for the story. We would be worth it for the story. We would be worth it for the story. We assumed like 60% occupancy. We we made a assumed like 60% occupancy. We we made a assumed like 60% occupancy. We we made a bunch of assumptions based on bunch of assumptions based on bunch of assumptions based on information we learned. like we looked information we learned. like we looked information we learned. like we looked up what the Stranger Things house is up what the Stranger Things house is up what the Stranger Things house is going for. All sorts of stuff like that. going for. All sorts of stuff like that. going for. All sorts of stuff like that. And then and then also like what the And then and then also like what the And then and then also like what the rules around short-term listings are. We rules around short-term listings are. We rules around short-term listings are. We actually spent time with an Airbnb actually spent time with an Airbnb actually spent time with an Airbnb consultant. Like I called up an Airbnb consultant. Like I called up an Airbnb consultant. Like I called up an Airbnb consultant, spoke to her for an hour and consultant, spoke to her for an hour and consultant, spoke to her for an hour and and got some ideas there. And like I had and got some ideas there. And like I had and got some ideas there. And like I had this other idea of like I'll build an RV this other idea of like I'll build an RV this other idea of like I'll build an RV like his RV and just park it out front. like his RV and just park it out front. like his RV and just park it out front. That'll be another bedroom cuz there's That'll be another bedroom cuz there's That'll be another bedroom cuz there's enough space in the house. enough space in the house. enough space in the house. >> And so we bas we basically got >> And so we bas we basically got >> And so we bas we basically got comfortable that we could spend $900,000 comfortable that we could spend $900,000 comfortable that we could spend $900,000 for this thing and it'd be worth it. for this thing and it'd be worth it. for this thing and it'd be worth it. Like I'm sorry. So the math was you Like I'm sorry. So the math was you Like I'm sorry. So the math was you thought basea you know worst case thought basea you know worst case thought basea you know worst case scenario worst case scenario scenario worst case scenario scenario worst case scenario ridiculously low. So you didn't need ridiculously low. So you didn't need ridiculously low. So you didn't need need to worry about that one too much. need to worry about that one too much. need to worry about that one too much. But you were basically the expected case But you were basically the expected case But you were basically the expected case was that it would make like 175 grand a was that it would make like 175 grand a was that it would make like 175 grand a year of rental income off the Airbnb. Um year of rental income off the Airbnb. Um year of rental income off the Airbnb. Um and that it would cost 120k to run and and that it would cost 120k to run and and that it would cost 120k to run and you'd net something like 55 60k a year you'd net something like 55 60k a year you'd net something like 55 60k a year off this rental property that you own in off this rental property that you own in off this rental property that you own in Albuquerque. Albuquerque. Albuquerque. >> And more importantly an epic story. an >> And more importantly an epic story. an >> And more importantly an epic story. an epic story. Absolutely epic story. epic story. Absolutely epic story. epic story. Absolutely epic story. And it was just like it was honestly so And it was just like it was honestly so And it was just like it was honestly so fun. Like actually part of the thing fun. Like actually part of the thing fun. Like actually part of the thing part of what I love about my job is I part of what I love about my job is I part of what I love about my job is I get to do this. Like I get to do due get to do this. Like I get to do due get to do this. Like I get to do due diligence on a space I don't know much diligence on a space I don't know much diligence on a space I don't know much about. And over the course of the next about. And over the course of the next about. And over the course of the next day, like I learned a lot about Airbnbs. day, like I learned a lot about Airbnbs. day, like I learned a lot about Airbnbs. I learned about a lot about Breaking I learned about a lot about Breaking I learned about a lot about Breaking Bad, a lot about this house. Bad, a lot about this house. Bad, a lot about this house. >> And to be clear, does this have anything >> And to be clear, does this have anything >> And to be clear, does this have anything to do with your job? This is not to do to do with your job? This is not to do to do with your job? This is not to do with your job. with your job. with your job. >> Due diligence. My job is like doing >> Due diligence. My job is like doing >> Due diligence. My job is like doing diligence. diligence. diligence. >> Use the same skills. Gotcha. >> Use the same skills. Gotcha. >> Use the same skills. Gotcha. >> Yeah. Same skills. So, we decided we >> Yeah. Same skills. So, we decided we >> Yeah. Same skills. So, we decided we could spend around $900,000 and it would could spend around $900,000 and it would could spend around $900,000 and it would be worthwhile. It would make us a decent be worthwhile. It would make us a decent be worthwhile. It would make us a decent return and then also, to your point, be return and then also, to your point, be return and then also, to your point, be just an epic story. It' be so fun to own just an epic story. It' be so fun to own just an epic story. It' be so fun to own it, it, it, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> But then the major risk was Albuquerque >> But then the major risk was Albuquerque >> But then the major risk was Albuquerque has these short-term rental laws where has these short-term rental laws where has these short-term rental laws where neighbors can call call this hotline and neighbors can call call this hotline and neighbors can call call this hotline and basically shut you down if they're basically shut you down if they're basically shut you down if they're unhappy. And so, there was some concern unhappy. And so, there was some concern unhappy. And so, there was some concern that that happens. And if if the that that happens. And if if the that that happens. And if if the short-term rental ability goes away, short-term rental ability goes away, short-term rental ability goes away, this house becomes worth $350,000, like this house becomes worth $350,000, like this house becomes worth $350,000, like exactly, you know, what every other exactly, you know, what every other exactly, you know, what every other house around it is. And so there was house around it is. And so there was house around it is. And so there was some risk there that you it's hard to some risk there that you it's hard to some risk there that you it's hard to price in, but basically we decided we price in, but basically we decided we price in, but basically we decided we could spend up to $900,000 and could spend up to $900,000 and could spend up to $900,000 and ultimately the house went for over a ultimately the house went for over a ultimately the house went for over a million. We don't know exactly how much, million. We don't know exactly how much, million. We don't know exactly how much, but it was sold to Aiden Ross, who uh but it was sold to Aiden Ross, who uh but it was sold to Aiden Ross, who uh for those of you who don't know, who's for those of you who don't know, who's for those of you who don't know, who's who's a popular streamer, who's a popular streamer, who's a popular streamer, and you know, for him, he's got a and you know, for him, he's got a and you know, for him, he's got a totally different revenue stream, which totally different revenue stream, which totally different revenue stream, which is like he can make a ton of money is like he can make a ton of money is like he can make a ton of money streaming this to this audience. He can streaming this to this audience. He can streaming this to this audience. He can market to this audience. So, he came at market to this audience. So, he came at market to this audience. So, he came at it with something that we just don't it with something that we just don't it with something that we just don't have and can't compete with. have and can't compete with. have and can't compete with. >> But it was really fun doing this. >> But it was really fun doing this. >> But it was really fun doing this. >> So, um so somebody who owns a Stranger >> So, um so somebody who owns a Stranger >> So, um so somebody who owns a Stranger Things house, what are they making? Things house, what are they making? Things house, what are they making? >> It's like $2,000 a night. And it's fully >> It's like $2,000 a night. And it's fully >> It's like $2,000 a night. And it's fully booked, 100% occupancy. booked, 100% occupancy. booked, 100% occupancy. >> And did they make the inside match the >> And did they make the inside match the >> And did they make the inside match the show? show? show? >> Yeah, they made the inside match the >> Yeah, they made the inside match the >> Yeah, they made the inside match the show and put a bunch of other show and put a bunch of other show and put a bunch of other memorabilia in. That was our plan, too, memorabilia in. That was our plan, too, memorabilia in. That was our plan, too, was like reconfigure it to make it look was like reconfigure it to make it look was like reconfigure it to make it look more like the original. Like some of the more like the original. Like some of the more like the original. Like some of the rooms will look like the original parts rooms will look like the original parts rooms will look like the original parts of the show and then the other rooms of the show and then the other rooms of the show and then the other rooms will just have like Breaking Bad will just have like Breaking Bad will just have like Breaking Bad memorabilia. memorabilia. memorabilia. We had talked a long time ago about We had talked a long time ago about We had talked a long time ago about buying Michael Jordan's house which was buying Michael Jordan's house which was buying Michael Jordan's house which was on sale for like a very long time in on sale for like a very long time in on sale for like a very long time in Chicago. It had like started at like 20 Chicago. It had like started at like 20 Chicago. It had like started at like 20 something million and then had dropped something million and then had dropped something million and then had dropped all the way down to like 13 12. And on all the way down to like 13 12. And on all the way down to like 13 12. And on this one of the early episodes of this this one of the early episodes of this this one of the early episodes of this podcast like should we buy Michael podcast like should we buy Michael podcast like should we buy Michael Jordan's house? Um and like can we turn Jordan's house? Um and like can we turn Jordan's house? Um and like can we turn it into whether it's a Airbnb it's like it into whether it's a Airbnb it's like it into whether it's a Airbnb it's like a um we were like you know you could a um we were like you know you could a um we were like you know you could fractionally like uh you could use an fractionally like uh you could use an fractionally like uh you could use an NFT basically to fractionally own it. NFT basically to fractionally own it. NFT basically to fractionally own it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And so it's not an Airbnb actually. It's >> And so it's not an Airbnb actually. It's >> And so it's not an Airbnb actually. It's a bunch of people who co-own this thing. a bunch of people who co-own this thing. a bunch of people who co-own this thing. And ultimately we we kind of let took And ultimately we we kind of let took And ultimately we we kind of let took our eye off it. It ended up selling for our eye off it. It ended up selling for our eye off it. It ended up selling for like I think like seven or eight like I think like seven or eight like I think like seven or eight million. Like it ended up going for like million. Like it ended up going for like million. Like it ended up going for like kind of a steal to this guy who's just kind of a steal to this guy who's just kind of a steal to this guy who's just like a business guy in the area um who like a business guy in the area um who like a business guy in the area um who was like, "Dude, I can buy Michael was like, "Dude, I can buy Michael was like, "Dude, I can buy Michael Jordan's house. This is amazing." Jordan's house. This is amazing." Jordan's house. This is amazing." And he's turned it into like, you know, And he's turned it into like, you know, And he's turned it into like, you know, a short-term rental uh sort of deal as a short-term rental uh sort of deal as a short-term rental uh sort of deal as well. well. well. >> I have I have one more thing which is I >> I have I have one more thing which is I >> I have I have one more thing which is I had another um business idea for people. had another um business idea for people. had another um business idea for people. >> Okay. So, you know, we've we've talked >> Okay. So, you know, we've we've talked >> Okay. So, you know, we've we've talked about parents before. I think uh my dad about parents before. I think uh my dad about parents before. I think uh my dad is kind of a funny guy and I'm always is kind of a funny guy and I'm always is kind of a funny guy and I'm always trying to get him to work out to like, trying to get him to work out to like, trying to get him to work out to like, you know, live longer. And, you know, you know, live longer. And, you know, you know, live longer. And, you know, people like us do stuff like Barry's people like us do stuff like Barry's people like us do stuff like Barry's boot camp, SoulCycle, like these boot camp, SoulCycle, like these boot camp, SoulCycle, like these classes. And the idea is classes. And the idea is classes. And the idea is just a Barry's boot camp style class for just a Barry's boot camp style class for just a Barry's boot camp style class for old people old people old people >> and you could >> and you could >> and you could >> Isn't it Zumba? Is that not what Zumba >> Isn't it Zumba? Is that not what Zumba >> Isn't it Zumba? Is that not what Zumba is? is? is? >> It's not exactly geared towards old >> It's not exactly geared towards old >> It's not exactly geared towards old people. I think I think you can people. I think I think you can people. I think I think you can >> easier >> easier >> easier >> make it easier like sort of >> make it easier like sort of >> make it easier like sort of >> lighter contact and um emphasize stuff >> lighter contact and um emphasize stuff >> lighter contact and um emphasize stuff like balance, joint work, and even like like balance, joint work, and even like like balance, joint work, and even like maybe even cognitive exercises. maybe even cognitive exercises. maybe even cognitive exercises. And you basically have this like And you basically have this like And you basically have this like welcoming place for people 55 plus who welcoming place for people 55 plus who welcoming place for people 55 plus who have a lot of free time and want to stay have a lot of free time and want to stay have a lot of free time and want to stay active and healthy. and maybe you you active and healthy. and maybe you you active and healthy. and maybe you you build like a a club around it is the build like a a club around it is the build like a a club around it is the idea. idea. idea. >> So that that's uh I think it's a great >> So that that's uh I think it's a great >> So that that's uh I think it's a great idea. I'll tell you why. So I have a idea. I'll tell you why. So I have a idea. I'll tell you why. So I have a trainer um who basically was like you trainer um who basically was like you trainer um who basically was like you know kind of like had a bodybuilding era know kind of like had a bodybuilding era know kind of like had a bodybuilding era trained a bunch of brides trying to get trained a bunch of brides trying to get trained a bunch of brides trying to get in shape for for uh weddings all the in shape for for uh weddings all the in shape for for uh weddings all the classic models right then like you know classic models right then like you know classic models right then like you know me like tech guy trying to you know work me like tech guy trying to you know work me like tech guy trying to you know work out. So he comes to my house. I've been out. So he comes to my house. I've been out. So he comes to my house. I've been working with him for I don't know five working with him for I don't know five working with him for I don't know five six years now. He um so I was like I six years now. He um so I was like I six years now. He um so I was like I really want my mom to um to work out. really want my mom to um to work out. really want my mom to um to work out. Like I think it'd be great for her and Like I think it'd be great for her and Like I think it'd be great for her and she's too cheap to like you know be like she's too cheap to like you know be like she's too cheap to like you know be like oh a personal trainer like 100 bucks for oh a personal trainer like 100 bucks for oh a personal trainer like 100 bucks for a session that's like you know 3 months a session that's like you know 3 months a session that's like you know 3 months at the gym over here like at the YMCA. at the gym over here like at the YMCA. at the gym over here like at the YMCA. Like I'm not doing that. And so for Like I'm not doing that. And so for Like I'm not doing that. And so for Christmas I got her like uh I was like I Christmas I got her like uh I was like I Christmas I got her like uh I was like I paid for it. My trainer will train you paid for it. My trainer will train you paid for it. My trainer will train you for a little bit. She got hooked. So for a little bit. She got hooked. So for a little bit. She got hooked. So then she started like I'm definitely then she started like I'm definitely then she started like I'm definitely going to make this investment and uh she going to make this investment and uh she going to make this investment and uh she loves it. She's been doing it for years loves it. She's been doing it for years loves it. She's been doing it for years now and she's been in great shape. So my now and she's been in great shape. So my now and she's been in great shape. So my trainer basically like suddenly his his trainer basically like suddenly his his trainer basically like suddenly his his clientele over the last couple years has clientele over the last couple years has clientele over the last couple years has totally pivoted where his his entire totally pivoted where his his entire totally pivoted where his his entire network is basically like aunties and network is basically like aunties and network is basically like aunties and uncles of like the Indian community. And uncles of like the Indian community. And uncles of like the Indian community. And so like my mom was doing it and then my so like my mom was doing it and then my so like my mom was doing it and then my father-in-law started doing it. I posted father-in-law started doing it. I posted father-in-law started doing it. I posted this video of him running and my this video of him running and my this video of him running and my father-in-law is I think he's like 79 father-in-law is I think he's like 79 father-in-law is I think he's like 79 years old and he um I see this video on years old and he um I see this video on years old and he um I see this video on Instagram of him running and I'm like Instagram of him running and I'm like Instagram of him running and I'm like what like what is going on here? And what like what is going on here? And what like what is going on here? And he's like he feels so good. He's moving he's like he feels so good. He's moving he's like he feels so good. He's moving again. He he was having like blood again. He he was having like blood again. He he was having like blood pressure and headaches and things like pressure and headaches and things like pressure and headaches and things like that. This has really been helping him. that. This has really been helping him. that. This has really been helping him. >> He fell at our house. We had this stool >> He fell at our house. We had this stool >> He fell at our house. We had this stool that's like kind of like we shouldn't that's like kind of like we shouldn't that's like kind of like we shouldn't have this stool like a little risky like have this stool like a little risky like have this stool like a little risky like I don't even know why we have it but he I don't even know why we have it but he I don't even know why we have it but he was he sitting on he fell was he sitting on he fell was he sitting on he fell >> and literally the first thing he says >> and literally the first thing he says >> and literally the first thing he says when he falls is like good thing I've when he falls is like good thing I've when he falls is like good thing I've been training cuz he like bounced back been training cuz he like bounced back been training cuz he like bounced back right away. Didn't like break a hip. right away. Didn't like break a hip. right away. Didn't like break a hip. >> So we were like this is amazing. So then >> So we were like this is amazing. So then >> So we were like this is amazing. So then his brother, his sister, and so like my his brother, his sister, and so like my his brother, his sister, and so like my trainer basically goes from my house to trainer basically goes from my house to trainer basically goes from my house to like people who are literally like like people who are literally like like people who are literally like learning to walk again, stand straight learning to walk again, stand straight learning to walk again, stand straight again, like just be able to move, again, like just be able to move, again, like just be able to move, rotate, because one thing that you lose rotate, because one thing that you lose rotate, because one thing that you lose a lot as you grow old is you're you a lot as you grow old is you're you a lot as you grow old is you're you stiffen up. So you lose rotational stiffen up. So you lose rotational stiffen up. So you lose rotational ability, which if you go to the gym and ability, which if you go to the gym and ability, which if you go to the gym and you sit on one of the machines or you sit on one of the machines or you sit on one of the machines or elliptical, like the things that people elliptical, like the things that people elliptical, like the things that people older people do at the gym, it's all older people do at the gym, it's all older people do at the gym, it's all rigid, no rotation type of exercise. And rigid, no rotation type of exercise. And rigid, no rotation type of exercise. And if you do rotation unsupervised, like if you do rotation unsupervised, like if you do rotation unsupervised, like you can also really get hurt. So you can also really get hurt. So you can also really get hurt. So anyways, he's been doing this and I've anyways, he's been doing this and I've anyways, he's been doing this and I've been telling him the same idea. I'm been telling him the same idea. I'm been telling him the same idea. I'm like, "Bro, you should like this is a like, "Bro, you should like this is a like, "Bro, you should like this is a real act of service that you're doing real act of service that you're doing real act of service that you're doing for the world." And there's not other for the world." And there's not other for the world." And there's not other great options for uh you know, people great options for uh you know, people great options for uh you know, people who are 50 to 80 years old who want some who are 50 to 80 years old who want some who are 50 to 80 years old who want some form of like organized tell me what to form of like organized tell me what to form of like organized tell me what to do movement. Ideally in a social format do movement. Ideally in a social format do movement. Ideally in a social format where you're with a group of people, you where you're with a group of people, you where you're with a group of people, you got out of the house. Like there are so got out of the house. Like there are so got out of the house. Like there are so many benefits. Like my grandparents used many benefits. Like my grandparents used many benefits. Like my grandparents used to just go to Costco every day cuz it to just go to Costco every day cuz it to just go to Costco every day cuz it was like a third place, right? It's like was like a third place, right? It's like was like a third place, right? It's like a place to go. They would walk around. a place to go. They would walk around. a place to go. They would walk around. They would see people. They could get They would see people. They could get They would see people. They could get like a $2 meal. Like you know, it was it like a $2 meal. Like you know, it was it like a $2 meal. Like you know, it was it was awesome. And so like that was like a was awesome. And so like that was like a was awesome. And so like that was like a huge deal for them. It's like they don't huge deal for them. It's like they don't huge deal for them. It's like they don't have really have third spaces the same have really have third spaces the same have really have third spaces the same way that like you know younger people way that like you know younger people way that like you know younger people have. So I kind of love this idea. have. So I kind of love this idea. have. So I kind of love this idea. >> Yeah. It it like makes a lot of sense. >> Yeah. It it like makes a lot of sense. >> Yeah. It it like makes a lot of sense. I'm surprised it doesn't exist already. I'm surprised it doesn't exist already. I'm surprised it doesn't exist already. I kind of did a little bit of research. I kind of did a little bit of research. I kind of did a little bit of research. I couldn't find anything. So I think I I couldn't find anything. So I think I I couldn't find anything. So I think I think there's something here. Well, think there's something here. Well, think there's something here. Well, there's no like killer brand. Even if there's no like killer brand. Even if there's no like killer brand. Even if obviously there's going to be something obviously there's going to be something obviously there's going to be something that exists, there's nobody who's built that exists, there's nobody who's built that exists, there's nobody who's built like SoulCycle, who's built berries, like SoulCycle, who's built berries, like SoulCycle, who's built berries, who's built just like a really fun. And who's built just like a really fun. And who's built just like a really fun. And by the way, this playbook has been done by the way, this playbook has been done by the way, this playbook has been done 50 times now, right? Like Solid Core and 50 times now, right? Like Solid Core and 50 times now, right? Like Solid Core and F45 or whatever. There's like so many of F45 or whatever. There's like so many of F45 or whatever. There's like so many of these. these. these. >> So many. Yeah. >> So many. Yeah. >> So many. Yeah. >> You could just literally just copy the >> You could just literally just copy the >> You could just literally just copy the the the blueprint. You just changed the the the blueprint. You just changed the the the blueprint. You just changed the demo. I also wonder if you could like demo. I also wonder if you could like demo. I also wonder if you could like get the insurance to cover in some way get the insurance to cover in some way get the insurance to cover in some way or some way like is there some like or some way like is there some like or some way like is there some like Medicaid Medicaid Medicaid >> advantage plans should cover something. >> advantage plans should cover something. >> advantage plans should cover something. So there is there's something called So there is there's something called So there is there's something called silver sneakers which a great name which silver sneakers which a great name which silver sneakers which a great name which is a fitness program for older adults is a fitness program for older adults is a fitness program for older adults through Medicare Advantage plans but through Medicare Advantage plans but through Medicare Advantage plans but it's it's it's >> 1990x like digital or >> 1990x like digital or >> 1990x like digital or >> no it's actually um it gives members >> no it's actually um it gives members >> no it's actually um it gives members access to gyms and actually my dad does access to gyms and actually my dad does access to gyms and actually my dad does this I think that's how he pays for his this I think that's how he pays for his this I think that's how he pays for his YMCA but it doesn't it's not like YMCA but it doesn't it's not like YMCA but it doesn't it's not like >> they don't have this specific thing >> they don't have this specific thing >> they don't have this specific thing which I'm thinking about which is like which I'm thinking about which is like which I'm thinking about which is like >> a boot camp around low impact and and >> a boot camp around low impact and and >> a boot camp around low impact and and senior friendly stuff Right. senior friendly stuff Right. senior friendly stuff Right. >> This is great. Wait, so so Silver >> This is great. Wait, so so Silver >> This is great. Wait, so so Silver Sneakers, that's a private company and Sneakers, that's a private company and Sneakers, that's a private company and they're basically saying you get access. they're basically saying you get access. they're basically saying you get access. So they kind of class past it. They went So they kind of class past it. They went So they kind of class past it. They went and did partnerships. Is that how they and did partnerships. Is that how they and did partnerships. Is that how they did this? did this? did this? >> That's right. Yeah. And they do have >> That's right. Yeah. And they do have >> That's right. Yeah. And they do have they do have like online classes, but I they do have like online classes, but I they do have like online classes, but I I but it's different. It's like it's I but it's different. It's like it's I but it's different. It's like it's videos and then they have partnerships videos and then they have partnerships videos and then they have partnerships with gyms. with gyms. with gyms. >> Is this like a ventureback company or is >> Is this like a ventureback company or is >> Is this like a ventureback company or is this uh is this like bootstrap? Yeah, this uh is this like bootstrap? Yeah, this uh is this like bootstrap? Yeah, they have 2 million visits a month on they have 2 million visits a month on they have 2 million visits a month on their website, which is pretty crazy. their website, which is pretty crazy. their website, which is pretty crazy. >> Oh, interesting. They acquired Neutri >> Oh, interesting. They acquired Neutri >> Oh, interesting. They acquired Neutri System and South Beach Diet. System and South Beach Diet. System and South Beach Diet. >> Yeah, this is interesting. >> Yeah, this is interesting. >> Yeah, this is interesting. >> Like these guys, the Silver Sneakers, >> Like these guys, the Silver Sneakers, >> Like these guys, the Silver Sneakers, like they're not going to do, you know, like they're not going to do, you know, like they're not going to do, you know, like the the modern way of doing things. like the the modern way of doing things. like the the modern way of doing things. They're like an old school company, They're like an old school company, They're like an old school company, >> right? But it says here 19 million >> right? But it says here 19 million >> right? But it says here 19 million Americans uh available to more than 19 Americans uh available to more than 19 Americans uh available to more than 19 million Americans through Medicare million Americans through Medicare million Americans through Medicare Advantage plans, um supplement carriers, Advantage plans, um supplement carriers, Advantage plans, um supplement carriers, and group retirey plans. That's cool. and group retirey plans. That's cool. and group retirey plans. That's cool. Yeah, that's there's definitely an Yeah, that's there's definitely an Yeah, that's there's definitely an opportunity here. I like these because I opportunity here. I like these because I opportunity here. I like these because I feel like with AI, let's like, you know, feel like with AI, let's like, you know, feel like with AI, let's like, you know, with AI, you kind of want AI proof with AI, you kind of want AI proof with AI, you kind of want AI proof businesses. If you're going to if you're businesses. If you're going to if you're businesses. If you're going to if you're going to start something new, either you going to start something new, either you going to start something new, either you need to be a big beneficiary of AI or need to be a big beneficiary of AI or need to be a big beneficiary of AI or you need to be AI proof. You want to be you need to be AI proof. You want to be you need to be AI proof. You want to be on either end of the spectrum. You don't on either end of the spectrum. You don't on either end of the spectrum. You don't want to be in the middle. want to be in the middle. want to be in the middle. >> Um, and so AI proof, like, you know, >> Um, and so AI proof, like, you know, >> Um, and so AI proof, like, you know, there's not going to be AI that works there's not going to be AI that works there's not going to be AI that works your body out for you. Like even if it's your body out for you. Like even if it's your body out for you. Like even if it's in if it's smarter, it guides you, in if it's smarter, it guides you, in if it's smarter, it guides you, you're still going to have to do the you're still going to have to do the you're still going to have to do the workout. Totally. And so you and so workout. Totally. And so you and so workout. Totally. And so you and so giving people a place to go, especially giving people a place to go, especially giving people a place to go, especially if AI gives people more free time or if AI gives people more free time or if AI gives people more free time or more income, like anything like that, more income, like anything like that, more income, like anything like that, >> it could be a big beneficiary of that. I >> it could be a big beneficiary of that. I >> it could be a big beneficiary of that. I like this idea. like this idea. like this idea. >> Yeah, it's a fun one. >> Yeah, it's a fun one. >> Yeah, it's a fun one. >> Cool. Um, all right, Shil, I appreciate >> Cool. Um, all right, Shil, I appreciate >> Cool. Um, all right, Shil, I appreciate you coming on and sharing ideas, you coming on and sharing ideas, you coming on and sharing ideas, insights, and all that stuff, man. insights, and all that stuff, man. insights, and all that stuff, man. Always good to hang. Always good to hang. Always good to hang. >> Likewise, man, that was fun.