The Relentless Missionary Creating AGI: Demis Hassabis

He was caught up in a terrifying He was caught up in a terrifying capitalistic contest and he relished it. capitalistic contest and he relished it. capitalistic contest and he relished it. This is the most crazy, ferocious This is the most crazy, ferocious This is the most crazy, ferocious corporate battle that we've ever seen, corporate battle that we've ever seen, corporate battle that we've ever seen, he said. I can't imagine it being any he said. I can't imagine it being any he said. I can't imagine it being any more intense, but I'm doing it my way. more intense, but I'm doing it my way. more intense, but I'm doing it my way. I'm a weird British outlier on this I'm a weird British outlier on this I'm a weird British outlier on this little island here, and I've made my own little island here, and I've made my own little island here, and I've made my own path. I followed my passions and tried path. I followed my passions and tried path. I followed my passions and tried to stay true to what I believe in, and to stay true to what I believe in, and to stay true to what I believe in, and I'm going to carry on doing that. This I'm going to carry on doing that. This I'm going to carry on doing that. This is my mission, so I will do it 100%. It is my mission, so I will do it 100%. It is my mission, so I will do it 100%. It is literally just the first level of is literally just the first level of is literally just the first level of what's coming. This is a paradoxical what's coming. This is a paradoxical what's coming. This is a paradoxical moment, which I guess is sort of messing moment, which I guess is sort of messing moment, which I guess is sort of messing with my mind. It should feel amazing with my mind. It should feel amazing with my mind. It should feel amazing realizing all these dreams that we've realizing all these dreams that we've realizing all these dreams that we've had for more than 15 years. But it had for more than 15 years. But it had for more than 15 years. But it doesn't feel like how I imagined it doesn't feel like how I imagined it doesn't feel like how I imagined it would feel. The way it's going is this would feel. The way it's going is this would feel. The way it's going is this mad rush. I've had to make my peace with mad rush. I've had to make my peace with mad rush. I've had to make my peace with that. Recognize that it's going to be that. Recognize that it's going to be that. Recognize that it's going to be messy and I'll just have to do my best messy and I'll just have to do my best messy and I'll just have to do my best and maybe we being the world will muddle and maybe we being the world will muddle and maybe we being the world will muddle through somehow. I'm optimistic still. through somehow. I'm optimistic still. through somehow. I'm optimistic still. That excerpt is from the end of the book That excerpt is from the end of the book That excerpt is from the end of the book that I'm going to talk about today, that I'm going to talk about today, that I'm going to talk about today, which is The Infinity Machine, which is The Infinity Machine, which is The Infinity Machine, Demisabus, Deep Mind, and the Quest for Demisabus, Deep Mind, and the Quest for Demisabus, Deep Mind, and the Quest for Super Intelligence, and it is written by Super Intelligence, and it is written by Super Intelligence, and it is written by Sebastian Malib. The publisher was nice Sebastian Malib. The publisher was nice Sebastian Malib. The publisher was nice to send me an advanced copy, and by the to send me an advanced copy, and by the to send me an advanced copy, and by the time you hear this episode, this book time you hear this episode, this book time you hear this episode, this book will be available to buy. And I think will be available to buy. And I think will be available to buy. And I think that ending of the book is the perfect that ending of the book is the perfect that ending of the book is the perfect place to begin this episode. And so, I place to begin this episode. And so, I place to begin this episode. And so, I want to jump right into the want to jump right into the want to jump right into the introduction. There's a bunch of introduction. There's a bunch of introduction. There's a bunch of highlights I have from the introduction highlights I have from the introduction highlights I have from the introduction and from the first chapter. I think will and from the first chapter. I think will and from the first chapter. I think will give you a good overview of what I want give you a good overview of what I want give you a good overview of what I want to talk to you about today. So, it says, to talk to you about today. So, it says, to talk to you about today. So, it says, "This book is about intelligence. On the "This book is about intelligence. On the "This book is about intelligence. On the one hand, it's a portrait of a one hand, it's a portrait of a one hand, it's a portrait of a remarkable human, a chess prodigy, a remarkable human, a chess prodigy, a remarkable human, a chess prodigy, a Nobel laureate, a polymathic thinker. On Nobel laureate, a polymathic thinker. On Nobel laureate, a polymathic thinker. On the other hand, it tells the stories of the other hand, it tells the stories of the other hand, it tells the stories of his quest to build remarkable machines, his quest to build remarkable machines, his quest to build remarkable machines, systems that are intuitive, creative, systems that are intuitive, creative, systems that are intuitive, creative, and even original. And so, even though and even original. And so, even though and even original. And so, even though Demis is in the greatest competition of Demis is in the greatest competition of Demis is in the greatest competition of his life, one that he is built for, one his life, one that he is built for, one his life, one that he is built for, one that he is relishing, he gave the author that he is relishing, he gave the author that he is relishing, he gave the author an unbelievable amount of his time. And an unbelievable amount of his time. And an unbelievable amount of his time. And this is why believing that societies this is why believing that societies this is why believing that societies will never trust inventors of will never trust inventors of will never trust inventors of transformational technologies unless transformational technologies unless transformational technologies unless they understand what makes them tick. they understand what makes them tick. they understand what makes them tick. Demis agreed to the deep access I Demis agreed to the deep access I Demis agreed to the deep access I needed. And so then the author Sebastian needed. And so then the author Sebastian needed. And so then the author Sebastian talks about some of the personality talks about some of the personality talks about some of the personality traits that Demis has. Says Demis came traits that Demis has. Says Demis came traits that Demis has. Says Demis came across as phenomenally articulate. A few across as phenomenally articulate. A few across as phenomenally articulate. A few months ago I had the opportunity to months ago I had the opportunity to months ago I had the opportunity to spend a little bit of time with Deus and spend a little bit of time with Deus and spend a little bit of time with Deus and that is exactly how I would describe that is exactly how I would describe that is exactly how I would describe him. He is phenomenally articulate and him. He is phenomenally articulate and him. He is phenomenally articulate and one of the things that is obvious if you one of the things that is obvious if you one of the things that is obvious if you read the book and one of the things that read the book and one of the things that read the book and one of the things that jumped out when you study him is he is a jumped out when you study him is he is a jumped out when you study him is he is a missionary. It's one of the things I missionary. It's one of the things I missionary. It's one of the things I most admire about him. He has been most admire about him. He has been most admire about him. He has been talking about this mission for a decade talking about this mission for a decade talking about this mission for a decade and a half before it has basically and a half before it has basically and a half before it has basically consumed our entire world. And so the consumed our entire world. And so the consumed our entire world. And so the introduction pulls out some of these introduction pulls out some of these introduction pulls out some of these ideas that he's been repeating for a ideas that he's been repeating for a ideas that he's been repeating for a very long time. In intelligence is very long time. In intelligence is very long time. In intelligence is fundamental. It is the root of all else. fundamental. It is the root of all else. fundamental. It is the root of all else. It is the mechanism through which humans It is the mechanism through which humans It is the mechanism through which humans perceive reality. It's the mind that perceive reality. It's the mind that perceive reality. It's the mind that creates our reality around us. Demis creates our reality around us. Demis creates our reality around us. Demis said Richard Feman said, "What I cannot said Richard Feman said, "What I cannot said Richard Feman said, "What I cannot build, I do not understand." Following build, I do not understand." Following build, I do not understand." Following Phum's dictim, in order to grasp human Phum's dictim, in order to grasp human Phum's dictim, in order to grasp human intelligence, scientists would have to intelligence, scientists would have to intelligence, scientists would have to build an artificial analog, a machine build an artificial analog, a machine build an artificial analog, a machine that mimicked human thinking. This next that mimicked human thinking. This next that mimicked human thinking. This next sentence is very important. AI's sentence is very important. AI's sentence is very important. AI's practical or profit-making potential was practical or profit-making potential was practical or profit-making potential was a secondary concern. Damis was a secondary concern. Damis was a secondary concern. Damis was delivering this sort of talk repeatedly delivering this sort of talk repeatedly delivering this sort of talk repeatedly at tech gatherings in the 2010s. The at tech gatherings in the 2010s. The at tech gatherings in the 2010s. The boyish philosopher on stage was clearly boyish philosopher on stage was clearly boyish philosopher on stage was clearly not a stereotypical entrepreneur not a stereotypical entrepreneur not a stereotypical entrepreneur pedalling a hot app that promised untold pedalling a hot app that promised untold pedalling a hot app that promised untold riches. And then if you think about that riches. And then if you think about that riches. And then if you think about that excerpt that appears at the end of the excerpt that appears at the end of the excerpt that appears at the end of the book that he's like, you know, I'm this book that he's like, you know, I'm this book that he's like, you know, I'm this weird British outlier and I'm just weird British outlier and I'm just weird British outlier and I'm just trying to follow my own path and trying to follow my own path and trying to follow my own path and following my passions and staying true following my passions and staying true following my passions and staying true to what I believe in. Founding a company to what I believe in. Founding a company to what I believe in. Founding a company to build AGI back in 2010 was viewed by to build AGI back in 2010 was viewed by to build AGI back in 2010 was viewed by others as ridiculous, as laughable. When others as ridiculous, as laughable. When others as ridiculous, as laughable. When they founded Deep Mind in 2010, fellow they founded Deep Mind in 2010, fellow they founded Deep Mind in 2010, fellow scientists had rolled their eyes, scientists had rolled their eyes, scientists had rolled their eyes, believing the construction of humanlike believing the construction of humanlike believing the construction of humanlike AI to be impossible. Almost every AI to be impossible. Almost every AI to be impossible. Almost every potential investor had turned them away. potential investor had turned them away. potential investor had turned them away. But Demis had nonetheless scrapped But Demis had nonetheless scrapped But Demis had nonetheless scrapped together funding and persuaded gifted together funding and persuaded gifted together funding and persuaded gifted researchers to join him all on the researchers to join him all on the researchers to join him all on the strength of his exhilarating vision. And strength of his exhilarating vision. And strength of his exhilarating vision. And so his vision of the future is to use AI so his vision of the future is to use AI so his vision of the future is to use AI to solve every single scientific problem to solve every single scientific problem to solve every single scientific problem that plagues humanity. It is a very that plagues humanity. It is a very that plagues humanity. It is a very optimistic vision. That's why I wanted optimistic vision. That's why I wanted optimistic vision. That's why I wanted to include that excerpt at the very to include that excerpt at the very to include that excerpt at the very beginning of this episode. The beginning of this episode. The beginning of this episode. The optimistic vision of AI discovery has optimistic vision of AI discovery has optimistic vision of AI discovery has history in its corner. Past innovations history in its corner. Past innovations history in its corner. Past innovations from gunpowder to nuclear fision have from gunpowder to nuclear fision have from gunpowder to nuclear fision have made wars more terrifying and accidents made wars more terrifying and accidents made wars more terrifying and accidents more lethal. But the general effect on more lethal. But the general effect on more lethal. But the general effect on technological change has been to amplify technological change has been to amplify technological change has been to amplify our experiences and extend our our experiences and extend our our experiences and extend our lifespans. And the very act of creating lifespans. And the very act of creating lifespans. And the very act of creating new technologies is intrinsic to being new technologies is intrinsic to being new technologies is intrinsic to being human. And so it gives some of the human. And so it gives some of the human. And so it gives some of the examples of of the accomplishments that examples of of the accomplishments that examples of of the accomplishments that DeepMind had in earlier in their DeepMind had in earlier in their DeepMind had in earlier in their history. In 2016, Deep Mind solved a history. In 2016, Deep Mind solved a history. In 2016, Deep Mind solved a grand challenge in computer science, grand challenge in computer science, grand challenge in computer science, creating a system that surpassed the creating a system that surpassed the creating a system that surpassed the intuitive brilliance of the world's best intuitive brilliance of the world's best intuitive brilliance of the world's best players of the ancient board game Go. players of the ancient board game Go. players of the ancient board game Go. There's a great documentary that you can There's a great documentary that you can There's a great documentary that you can watch on YouTube. It is about Demis and watch on YouTube. It is about Demis and watch on YouTube. It is about Demis and DeepMind and some of their DeepMind and some of their DeepMind and some of their accomplishments. It's called the accomplishments. It's called the accomplishments. It's called the thinking game. So back to this. In 2020, thinking game. So back to this. In 2020, thinking game. So back to this. In 2020, DeepMind solved a second grand challenge DeepMind solved a second grand challenge DeepMind solved a second grand challenge in biochemistry, stitching together 32 in biochemistry, stitching together 32 in biochemistry, stitching together 32 algorithms to define the shape of nearly algorithms to define the shape of nearly algorithms to define the shape of nearly all the proteins in nature. This was the all the proteins in nature. This was the all the proteins in nature. This was the breakthrough for which Demis shared the breakthrough for which Demis shared the breakthrough for which Demis shared the Nobel Prize in chemistry. So in 2024, Nobel Prize in chemistry. So in 2024, Nobel Prize in chemistry. So in 2024, Demis and John Jumper were awarded the Demis and John Jumper were awarded the Demis and John Jumper were awarded the Nobel Prize in Chemistry for protein Nobel Prize in Chemistry for protein Nobel Prize in Chemistry for protein structure prediction. Still in the structure prediction. Still in the structure prediction. Still in the introduction, the author gives an introduction, the author gives an introduction, the author gives an overview of some of the unique overview of some of the unique overview of some of the unique characteristics that Demis has. He characteristics that Demis has. He characteristics that Demis has. He stands for a type, the missionary stands for a type, the missionary stands for a type, the missionary entrepreneur and the out- of-the-box entrepreneur and the out- of-the-box entrepreneur and the out- of-the-box scientist who through brilliance and scientist who through brilliance and scientist who through brilliance and extraordinary drive emerges as the right extraordinary drive emerges as the right extraordinary drive emerges as the right person for a particular moment. But at a person for a particular moment. But at a person for a particular moment. But at a deeper level, Demis provides a window on deeper level, Demis provides a window on deeper level, Demis provides a window on life's external enigmas. What drives life's external enigmas. What drives life's external enigmas. What drives people to act? What is their purpose? He people to act? What is their purpose? He people to act? What is their purpose? He has been thinking about thinking since has been thinking about thinking since has been thinking about thinking since he was a little kid, which we'll get he was a little kid, which we'll get he was a little kid, which we'll get into. And so, as the author Sebastian into. And so, as the author Sebastian into. And so, as the author Sebastian spends more and more time with him, he spends more and more time with him, he spends more and more time with him, he understands the power of stories on the understands the power of stories on the understands the power of stories on the effect of not only how Demis views the effect of not only how Demis views the effect of not only how Demis views the world, but also Demis is a phenomenal world, but also Demis is a phenomenal world, but also Demis is a phenomenal storyteller. I experienced this storyteller. I experienced this storyteller. I experienced this firsthand. Deis revealed himself as an firsthand. Deis revealed himself as an firsthand. Deis revealed himself as an extraordinary consumer and teller of extraordinary consumer and teller of extraordinary consumer and teller of stories. His outlook is shaped by novels stories. His outlook is shaped by novels stories. His outlook is shaped by novels and movies and his gifts as a leader are and movies and his gifts as a leader are and movies and his gifts as a leader are bound up with his genius for narrating bound up with his genius for narrating bound up with his genius for narrating his experiences. When he is in full his experiences. When he is in full his experiences. When he is in full flow, ideas pour out of him in a flow, ideas pour out of him in a flow, ideas pour out of him in a torrent. And this is an example and I torrent. And this is an example and I torrent. And this is an example and I think this is one of the best excerpts think this is one of the best excerpts think this is one of the best excerpts in the book. I am first and foremost a in the book. I am first and foremost a in the book. I am first and foremost a scientist. Demis began. My goal is to scientist. Demis began. My goal is to scientist. Demis began. My goal is to understand nature but doing science is understand nature but doing science is understand nature but doing science is sort of like reading the mind of God. We sort of like reading the mind of God. We sort of like reading the mind of God. We humans have these faculties. The world humans have these faculties. The world humans have these faculties. The world is understandable. But why should it be is understandable. But why should it be is understandable. But why should it be that way? I think there's a reason. that way? I think there's a reason. that way? I think there's a reason. Computers are just bits of sand and Computers are just bits of sand and Computers are just bits of sand and copper. Why should these combine to do copper. Why should these combine to do copper. Why should these combine to do anything? I mean, it's absurd. The anything? I mean, it's absurd. The anything? I mean, it's absurd. The electrons move around and then that electrons move around and then that electrons move around and then that creates an AI system that can defeat a creates an AI system that can defeat a creates an AI system that can defeat a go master. Why should that be possible? go master. Why should that be possible? go master. Why should that be possible? This is beyond evolutionary coincidence. This is beyond evolutionary coincidence. This is beyond evolutionary coincidence. We can build electron microscopes and We can build electron microscopes and We can build electron microscopes and interrogate reality down to the most interrogate reality down to the most interrogate reality down to the most minute level. We can build systems that minute level. We can build systems that minute level. We can build systems that detect black holes colliding from more detect black holes colliding from more detect black holes colliding from more than a billion years ago. I mean, what than a billion years ago. I mean, what than a billion years ago. I mean, what is this? What the hell is going on here? is this? What the hell is going on here? is this? What the hell is going on here? I sit at my desk at 2 a.m. and I feel I sit at my desk at 2 a.m. and I feel I sit at my desk at 2 a.m. and I feel like reality is staring at me, screaming like reality is staring at me, screaming like reality is staring at me, screaming at me, literally screaming at me, trying at me, literally screaming at me, trying at me, literally screaming at me, trying to tell me something if I could just to tell me something if I could just to tell me something if I could just listen hard enough. That's how I feel listen hard enough. That's how I feel listen hard enough. That's how I feel every day. So, you can see why I'm every day. So, you can see why I'm every day. So, you can see why I'm trying to build AI. I felt that since I trying to build AI. I felt that since I trying to build AI. I felt that since I was very young, that there's a deep, was very young, that there's a deep, was very young, that there's a deep, deep mystery about what's going on here. deep mystery about what's going on here. deep mystery about what's going on here. You can frame it however you want. You You can frame it however you want. You You can frame it however you want. You can call this God's design or you can can call this God's design or you can can call this God's design or you can say it's just nature. I'm open-minded say it's just nature. I'm open-minded say it's just nature. I'm open-minded about the description and I don't know about the description and I don't know about the description and I don't know what the answers will turn out to be. At what the answers will turn out to be. At what the answers will turn out to be. At the moment, we don't really know what the moment, we don't really know what the moment, we don't really know what time is or gravity is or any of these time is or gravity is or any of these time is or gravity is or any of these things. So, there's a mystery waiting to things. So, there's a mystery waiting to things. So, there's a mystery waiting to be solved and it encompasses just about be solved and it encompasses just about be solved and it encompasses just about everything. I would like to understand everything. I would like to understand everything. I would like to understand and then I'm perfectly fine to shuffle and then I'm perfectly fine to shuffle and then I'm perfectly fine to shuffle off my mortal coil. And that's just off my mortal coil. And that's just off my mortal coil. And that's just incredible. And so then the author goes incredible. And so then the author goes incredible. And so then the author goes again just into what kind of person again just into what kind of person again just into what kind of person Demis is. Demis who blaze the trail Demis is. Demis who blaze the trail Demis is. Demis who blaze the trail followed by his rivals is decent and followed by his rivals is decent and followed by his rivals is decent and public-spirited and wants the best for public-spirited and wants the best for public-spirited and wants the best for humanity. He has ego. He is ferociously humanity. He has ego. He is ferociously humanity. He has ego. He is ferociously competitive. But his goal is scientific competitive. But his goal is scientific competitive. But his goal is scientific enlightenment, not money or power. The enlightenment, not money or power. The enlightenment, not money or power. The spiritual language in which he sometimes spiritual language in which he sometimes spiritual language in which he sometimes couches his mission underscores how couches his mission underscores how couches his mission underscores how seriously he takes it. So I would say if seriously he takes it. So I would say if seriously he takes it. So I would say if definitely after I got to spend time definitely after I got to spend time definitely after I got to spend time with him, but especially after reading with him, but especially after reading with him, but especially after reading this book, he's the kind of passionate this book, he's the kind of passionate this book, he's the kind of passionate missionary that you just root for, that missionary that you just root for, that missionary that you just root for, that you want to see win. And so one of the you want to see win. And so one of the you want to see win. And so one of the reoccurring themes throughout this book reoccurring themes throughout this book reoccurring themes throughout this book is just his comfort in following his own is just his comfort in following his own is just his comfort in following his own path, making his own decisions. It says path, making his own decisions. It says path, making his own decisions. It says Demis himself is a figure apart. It is Demis himself is a figure apart. It is Demis himself is a figure apart. It is not by coincidence that he has chosen to not by coincidence that he has chosen to not by coincidence that he has chosen to remain in London, far from Silicon remain in London, far from Silicon remain in London, far from Silicon Valley's hype and commotion. And so he Valley's hype and commotion. And so he Valley's hype and commotion. And so he is telling the author how important is telling the author how important is telling the author how important stories are to him. In fact, he said you stories are to him. In fact, he said you stories are to him. In fact, he said you should read one of his favorite novels, should read one of his favorite novels, should read one of his favorite novels, which is Enders Game to understand him. which is Enders Game to understand him. which is Enders Game to understand him. And there's a great overview of Demis' And there's a great overview of Demis' And there's a great overview of Demis' accomplishments before he found this accomplishments before he found this accomplishments before he found this book. Partway through his doctoral book. Partway through his doctoral book. Partway through his doctoral research in neuroscience when he had research in neuroscience when he had research in neuroscience when he had already been a chess master, a video already been a chess master, a video already been a chess master, a video game designer, an amateur theoretical game designer, an amateur theoretical game designer, an amateur theoretical physicist, an entrepreneur, a computer physicist, an entrepreneur, a computer physicist, an entrepreneur, a computer scientist, and a five-time world scientist, and a five-time world scientist, and a five-time world champion. Deis discovered a work of champion. Deis discovered a work of champion. Deis discovered a work of science fiction that made sense of who science fiction that made sense of who science fiction that made sense of who he really was. The book was called Ender he really was. The book was called Ender he really was. The book was called Ender Game and it tells the story of a Game and it tells the story of a Game and it tells the story of a dimminionive boy genius who is taken dimminionive boy genius who is taken dimminionive boy genius who is taken from his family and sent off to a space from his family and sent off to a space from his family and sent off to a space station. There at an intergalactic station. There at an intergalactic station. There at an intergalactic battle school, Ender is manipulated by battle school, Ender is manipulated by battle school, Ender is manipulated by adults, bullied by classmates, and put adults, bullied by classmates, and put adults, bullied by classmates, and put through extreme mental testing, all to through extreme mental testing, all to through extreme mental testing, all to discover whether he can shoulder discover whether he can shoulder discover whether he can shoulder responsibility for the survival of the responsibility for the survival of the responsibility for the survival of the human race. By dent of grit and talent, human race. By dent of grit and talent, human race. By dent of grit and talent, Ender rises to the challenge. Demis Ender rises to the challenge. Demis Ender rises to the challenge. Demis identified powerfully with Ender and he identified powerfully with Ender and he identified powerfully with Ender and he suggested that I read Ender's game in suggested that I read Ender's game in suggested that I read Ender's game in advance of our first long conversation. advance of our first long conversation. advance of our first long conversation. If I was to get to know him, I would If I was to get to know him, I would If I was to get to know him, I would have to understand his science fiction have to understand his science fiction have to understand his science fiction alter ego to see the capacity for alter ego to see the capacity for alter ego to see the capacity for endurance, the ability to suffer and endurance, the ability to suffer and endurance, the ability to suffer and still soldier on. Like Ender, Demis has still soldier on. Like Ender, Demis has still soldier on. Like Ender, Demis has dedicated every fiber of his being to dedicated every fiber of his being to dedicated every fiber of his being to the accomplishment of a mission, which the accomplishment of a mission, which the accomplishment of a mission, which is why he worked night shifts from 10:00 is why he worked night shifts from 10:00 is why he worked night shifts from 10:00 in the evening until 4 in the morning. in the evening until 4 in the morning. in the evening until 4 in the morning. In addition to his normal office hours In addition to his normal office hours In addition to his normal office hours like Ender, Deis felt a burden of like Ender, Deis felt a burden of like Ender, Deis felt a burden of responsibility. "If you are trying to responsibility. "If you are trying to responsibility. "If you are trying to solve humanity's problems and understand solve humanity's problems and understand solve humanity's problems and understand the nature of reality, you don't have the nature of reality, you don't have the nature of reality, you don't have time to waste," he said. And so, I saw a time to waste," he said. And so, I saw a time to waste," he said. And so, I saw a few other people that had advanced few other people that had advanced few other people that had advanced copies of this book, and one of them was copies of this book, and one of them was copies of this book, and one of them was reading it and posting about it on X. reading it and posting about it on X. reading it and posting about it on X. And when I found this next excerpt, I And when I found this next excerpt, I And when I found this next excerpt, I think the this description of this next think the this description of this next think the this description of this next excerpt was phenomenal. It says, "It's excerpt was phenomenal. It says, "It's excerpt was phenomenal. It says, "It's just wild how some people are playing a just wild how some people are playing a just wild how some people are playing a completely different game 247, no off completely different game 247, no off completely different game 247, no off switch." And so there's this excerpt switch." And so there's this excerpt switch." And so there's this excerpt from one of Demis' co-founders of Deep from one of Demis' co-founders of Deep from one of Demis' co-founders of Deep Mind, Shane Le, describing how unusual a Mind, Shane Le, describing how unusual a Mind, Shane Le, describing how unusual a figure that Demis is. Says, "Demis has figure that Demis is. Says, "Demis has figure that Demis is. Says, "Demis has extraordinary level of determination extraordinary level of determination extraordinary level of determination unlike pretty much anybody. Astonishing, unlike pretty much anybody. Astonishing, unlike pretty much anybody. Astonishing, incredible determination. That is his incredible determination. That is his incredible determination. That is his most defining characteristic. just most defining characteristic. just most defining characteristic. just unbelievable determination. He works, unbelievable determination. He works, unbelievable determination. He works, sleeps, eats, breathes the mission 24 sleeps, eats, breathes the mission 24 sleeps, eats, breathes the mission 24 hours a day to a degree that I haven't hours a day to a degree that I haven't hours a day to a degree that I haven't seen with other people. And he's asked a seen with other people. And he's asked a seen with other people. And he's asked a follow-up. No hobbies. Football. He's a follow-up. No hobbies. Football. He's a follow-up. No hobbies. Football. He's a big fan of Liverpool, but other than big fan of Liverpool, but other than big fan of Liverpool, but other than that, it's the mission. Another that, it's the mission. Another that, it's the mission. Another follow-up question that was evident even follow-up question that was evident even follow-up question that was evident even when you met him more than a decade ago, when you met him more than a decade ago, when you met him more than a decade ago, always. Deis tells a story about his always. Deis tells a story about his always. Deis tells a story about his father saying, "Whether you win or lose, father saying, "Whether you win or lose, father saying, "Whether you win or lose, the really important thing is that you the really important thing is that you the really important thing is that you try your best." Demis says that he took try your best." Demis says that he took try your best." Demis says that he took that very literally, as in absolutely that very literally, as in absolutely that very literally, as in absolutely try the absolute absolute absolute best try the absolute absolute absolute best try the absolute absolute absolute best you can possibly do. Pretty much to the you can possibly do. Pretty much to the you can possibly do. Pretty much to the point of breaking yourself. That's how point of breaking yourself. That's how point of breaking yourself. That's how he is 24/7. I don't think his father he is 24/7. I don't think his father he is 24/7. I don't think his father meant his comment in quite the literal meant his comment in quite the literal meant his comment in quite the literal sense. Try your best wasn't supposed to sense. Try your best wasn't supposed to sense. Try your best wasn't supposed to mean try literally to the point of mean try literally to the point of mean try literally to the point of destroying yourself. Go absolutely destroying yourself. Go absolutely destroying yourself. Go absolutely completely 100%. But that's how Demis completely 100%. But that's how Demis completely 100%. But that's how Demis understood it. There is no 50% mode in understood it. There is no 50% mode in understood it. There is no 50% mode in Demis. There's not even a 99% mode in Demis. There's not even a 99% mode in Demis. There's not even a 99% mode in Demis. There is only 100%. And before we Demis. There is only 100%. And before we Demis. There is only 100%. And before we jump back into this incredible story, jump back into this incredible story, jump back into this incredible story, let me tell you about the presenting let me tell you about the presenting let me tell you about the presenting sponsor of this podcast, RAMP. The best sponsor of this podcast, RAMP. The best sponsor of this podcast, RAMP. 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And so that's a great overview and I want to dig in now to his overview and I want to dig in now to his overview and I want to dig in now to his childhood about why he might be like childhood about why he might be like childhood about why he might be like this. He was very special from a very this. He was very special from a very this. He was very special from a very young age. His mother had grown up in young age. His mother had grown up in young age. His mother had grown up in poverty spending part of her childhood poverty spending part of her childhood poverty spending part of her childhood as an orphan on the streets of as an orphan on the streets of as an orphan on the streets of Singapore. His father had been the first Singapore. His father had been the first Singapore. His father had been the first from his family to attend university. from his family to attend university. from his family to attend university. His dad was an aspiring singer His dad was an aspiring singer His dad was an aspiring singer songwriter and sold toys out of the songwriter and sold toys out of the songwriter and sold toys out of the family's beaten up Volkswagen van. family's beaten up Volkswagen van. family's beaten up Volkswagen van. Luckily for Demis, he discovers chess Luckily for Demis, he discovers chess Luckily for Demis, he discovers chess when he's four. He has a natural when he's four. He has a natural when he's four. He has a natural aptitude for the game. He first sees his aptitude for the game. He first sees his aptitude for the game. He first sees his father play a game against his uncle. father play a game against his uncle. father play a game against his uncle. That causes him to want to learn how to That causes him to want to learn how to That causes him to want to learn how to play. Within a few weeks, he had play. Within a few weeks, he had play. Within a few weeks, he had mastered the game well enough to defeat mastered the game well enough to defeat mastered the game well enough to defeat adults. Keep in mind, he was four. By adults. Keep in mind, he was four. By adults. Keep in mind, he was four. By the time he's 5 years old, he begins the time he's 5 years old, he begins the time he's 5 years old, he begins competing in tournaments, sitting on a competing in tournaments, sitting on a competing in tournaments, sitting on a telephone book on top of a chair so that telephone book on top of a chair so that telephone book on top of a chair so that he could get his head over the table. He he could get his head over the table. He he could get his head over the table. He was relentlessly competitive. That is was relentlessly competitive. That is was relentlessly competitive. That is something that's going to be repeated something that's going to be repeated something that's going to be repeated over and over again. I think I heard him over and over again. I think I heard him over and over again. I think I heard him say one time that half his brain is say one time that half his brain is say one time that half his brain is dedicated to competition. He is dedicated to competition. He is dedicated to competition. He is ferociously, ferociously competitive. ferociously, ferociously competitive. ferociously, ferociously competitive. And so when he is 6 years old, a And so when he is 6 years old, a And so when he is 6 years old, a renowned chess player and a television renowned chess player and a television renowned chess player and a television commentator goes up to Deis's dad and commentator goes up to Deis's dad and commentator goes up to Deis's dad and says, "Hey, your son is the best says, "Hey, your son is the best says, "Hey, your son is the best six-year-old chess player I have ever six-year-old chess player I have ever six-year-old chess player I have ever seen." And Dema says, 'What are you seen." And Dema says, 'What are you seen." And Dema says, 'What are you going to do when someone tells you that? going to do when someone tells you that? going to do when someone tells you that? My parents were fairly normal people My parents were fairly normal people My parents were fairly normal people living normal lives and a renowned living normal lives and a renowned living normal lives and a renowned expert is telling you this. His father expert is telling you this. His father expert is telling you this. His father responded to the message as though responded to the message as though responded to the message as though instructions had been handed down from instructions had been handed down from instructions had been handed down from God. And for the next half a dozen God. And for the next half a dozen God. And for the next half a dozen years, weekend after weekend, he bundled years, weekend after weekend, he bundled years, weekend after weekend, he bundled his young son into the family's van and his young son into the family's van and his young son into the family's van and drove him off to tournaments. The drove him off to tournaments. The drove him off to tournaments. The father-son duo spent nights in sleeping father-son duo spent nights in sleeping father-son duo spent nights in sleeping bags laid out in the back of the van. bags laid out in the back of the van. bags laid out in the back of the van. And other times, they found a cheap And other times, they found a cheap And other times, they found a cheap hostel and shared a bunk bed. Remember, hostel and shared a bunk bed. Remember, hostel and shared a bunk bed. Remember, his parents didn't have a lot of money. his parents didn't have a lot of money. his parents didn't have a lot of money. I imagine my parents had a lot of I imagine my parents had a lot of I imagine my parents had a lot of arguments about money because we didn't arguments about money because we didn't arguments about money because we didn't have much. Demis said chess consumed have much. Demis said chess consumed have much. Demis said chess consumed every weekend and every day of school every weekend and every day of school every weekend and every day of school vacation, squeezing out the easy vacation, squeezing out the easy vacation, squeezing out the easy recreation of a normal childhood. Deis recreation of a normal childhood. Deis recreation of a normal childhood. Deis could barely imagine what just living could barely imagine what just living could barely imagine what just living might mean. He had never tried it out. might mean. He had never tried it out. might mean. He had never tried it out. And so Deus also found himself in a very And so Deus also found himself in a very And so Deus also found himself in a very volatile environment. Later on, you'll volatile environment. Later on, you'll volatile environment. Later on, you'll understand that he hates to relinquish understand that he hates to relinquish understand that he hates to relinquish control. And you see this a lot with control. And you see this a lot with control. And you see this a lot with people that had childhoods like this. people that had childhoods like this. people that had childhoods like this. When Demis had a bad game, his father When Demis had a bad game, his father When Demis had a bad game, his father would erupt. There was one time I lost would erupt. There was one time I lost would erupt. There was one time I lost horribly. My dad went mental. He was horribly. My dad went mental. He was horribly. My dad went mental. He was screaming, "How could you have done screaming, "How could you have done screaming, "How could you have done this? How could you have done this? It this? How could you have done this? It this? How could you have done this? It was just awful. We were in some hostel was just awful. We were in some hostel was just awful. We were in some hostel and he was going on about this." and he was going on about this." and he was going on about this." Screaming. And this used to be a regular Screaming. And this used to be a regular Screaming. And this used to be a regular occurrence with my dad. And I finally occurrence with my dad. And I finally occurrence with my dad. And I finally said to him, "This is ridiculous. I said to him, "This is ridiculous. I said to him, "This is ridiculous. I obviously tried my best. I'm not obviously tried my best. I'm not obviously tried my best. I'm not intentionally losing." And then that was intentionally losing." And then that was intentionally losing." And then that was that. I wasn't going to take it anymore. that. I wasn't going to take it anymore. that. I wasn't going to take it anymore. That was the last time I remember him That was the last time I remember him That was the last time I remember him screaming at me. And so then Demis screaming at me. And so then Demis screaming at me. And so then Demis comments on what his co-founder was comments on what his co-founder was comments on what his co-founder was talking about. The fact that his dad talking about. The fact that his dad talking about. The fact that his dad would say, "Hey, you need to always do would say, "Hey, you need to always do would say, "Hey, you need to always do your best." And so he's talking, he your best." And so he's talking, he your best." And so he's talking, he describes how he interpreted this. And describes how he interpreted this. And describes how he interpreted this. And keep in mind, he is 9 or 10 years old keep in mind, he is 9 or 10 years old keep in mind, he is 9 or 10 years old when he's thinking like this. The when he's thinking like this. The when he's thinking like this. The slightly warp way I took this was, "How slightly warp way I took this was, "How slightly warp way I took this was, "How do you know if you've done your best?" do you know if you've done your best?" do you know if you've done your best?" The only way I could know is if I The only way I could know is if I The only way I could know is if I basically push myself to the point just basically push myself to the point just basically push myself to the point just before death because that is literally before death because that is literally before death because that is literally when you've done your best. If you die, when you've done your best. If you die, when you've done your best. If you die, and by I mean burn out or something, and by I mean burn out or something, and by I mean burn out or something, then you've slightly overdone it. It's then you've slightly overdone it. It's then you've slightly overdone it. It's like running a marathon. You have to like running a marathon. You have to like running a marathon. You have to basically fall over the line and then basically fall over the line and then basically fall over the line and then ideally you should be hospitalized but ideally you should be hospitalized but ideally you should be hospitalized but not dead. That's when you can say you've not dead. That's when you can say you've not dead. That's when you can say you've done your best. If you've got any energy done your best. If you've got any energy done your best. If you've got any energy left and you're still standing, maybe left and you're still standing, maybe left and you're still standing, maybe you could have tried harder. And so at you could have tried harder. And so at you could have tried harder. And so at this point in life, he just assumed, this point in life, he just assumed, this point in life, he just assumed, okay, I'm going to be a professional okay, I'm going to be a professional okay, I'm going to be a professional chess player. But then he goes to this chess player. But then he goes to this chess player. But then he goes to this tournament and he realizes, wait a tournament and he realizes, wait a tournament and he realizes, wait a minute, I need to dedicate this. This is minute, I need to dedicate this. This is minute, I need to dedicate this. This is a colossal waste of brain power. Maybe I a colossal waste of brain power. Maybe I a colossal waste of brain power. Maybe I should dedicate my life and energy to should dedicate my life and energy to should dedicate my life and energy to something more meaningful and something more meaningful and something more meaningful and worldchanging than playing a board game worldchanging than playing a board game worldchanging than playing a board game for the rest of my life. So he says they for the rest of my life. So he says they for the rest of my life. So he says they experienced an epiphany. That tournament experienced an epiphany. That tournament experienced an epiphany. That tournament had been packed with brilliant brains had been packed with brilliant brains had been packed with brilliant brains dueling over a board game until stamina dueling over a board game until stamina dueling over a board game until stamina was drained to nothing. Surely that was drained to nothing. Surely that was drained to nothing. Surely that immense collective mental effort should immense collective mental effort should immense collective mental effort should have been harnessed to some higher have been harnessed to some higher have been harnessed to some higher cause, say science or medicine. I cause, say science or medicine. I cause, say science or medicine. I thought we were wasting our minds. And thought we were wasting our minds. And thought we were wasting our minds. And so right there and then he resolved that so right there and then he resolved that so right there and then he resolved that there must be something more. There must there must be something more. There must there must be something more. There must be a mission, a purpose. And so be a mission, a purpose. And so be a mission, a purpose. And so something you'll see throughout his life something you'll see throughout his life something you'll see throughout his life is that all these experiences that he is that all these experiences that he is that all these experiences that he has, all the things that he is learning, has, all the things that he is learning, has, all the things that he is learning, they they fit together almost like a they they fit together almost like a they they fit together almost like a puzzle. So he discovers this book that's puzzle. So he discovers this book that's puzzle. So he discovers this book that's called the chess computer handbook. It's called the chess computer handbook. It's called the chess computer handbook. It's written by this guy named David Levy. written by this guy named David Levy. written by this guy named David Levy. And it says Levy introduced Demis to the And it says Levy introduced Demis to the And it says Levy introduced Demis to the themes that would animate his lifelong themes that would animate his lifelong themes that would animate his lifelong quest to build artificial intelligence. quest to build artificial intelligence. quest to build artificial intelligence. The marriage of computing and chess The marriage of computing and chess The marriage of computing and chess united Demis' two worlds. He read the united Demis' two worlds. He read the united Demis' two worlds. He read the book in one sitting. 12-year-old Demis book in one sitting. 12-year-old Demis book in one sitting. 12-year-old Demis sets out applying Levy's principles. He sets out applying Levy's principles. He sets out applying Levy's principles. He built a computer program to play a built a computer program to play a built a computer program to play a simpler game, the game Oll. The program simpler game, the game Oll. The program simpler game, the game Oll. The program proved intelligent enough to beat Demis' proved intelligent enough to beat Demis' proved intelligent enough to beat Demis' little brother. This is what Demis said little brother. This is what Demis said little brother. This is what Demis said about it. it was amazing that I made about it. it was amazing that I made about it. it was amazing that I made something that could beat him. And so something that could beat him. And so something that could beat him. And so Demis gets introduced to AI through Demis gets introduced to AI through Demis gets introduced to AI through gaming. He's reading all these gaming gaming. He's reading all these gaming gaming. He's reading all these gaming magazines. At this point, he's 16 years magazines. At this point, he's 16 years magazines. At this point, he's 16 years old. He gets into Cambridge, but they're old. He gets into Cambridge, but they're old. He gets into Cambridge, but they're saying he's too young to attend. So he's saying he's too young to attend. So he's saying he's too young to attend. So he's like this one-year gap. And so he's like this one-year gap. And so he's like this one-year gap. And so he's going to work at the best gaming studio going to work at the best gaming studio going to work at the best gaming studio in Europe. It's called Bullfrog. And the in Europe. It's called Bullfrog. And the in Europe. It's called Bullfrog. And the way he gets there is he read these way he gets there is he read these way he gets there is he read these gaming magazines that had an ad were gaming magazines that had an ad were gaming magazines that had an ad were saying, "If you win this competition to saying, "If you win this competition to saying, "If you win this competition to create this game, the prize was a job at create this game, the prize was a job at create this game, the prize was a job at Bullfrog." And so this is a description Bullfrog." And so this is a description Bullfrog." And so this is a description of the environment there and some of his of the environment there and some of his of the environment there and some of his co-workers. Demos was fascinated by the co-workers. Demos was fascinated by the co-workers. Demos was fascinated by the other Bullfrog employees, technically other Bullfrog employees, technically other Bullfrog employees, technically talented, self-made young men, many of talented, self-made young men, many of talented, self-made young men, many of whom had dropped out of high school, whom had dropped out of high school, whom had dropped out of high school, being too idiosyncratically gifted or being too idiosyncratically gifted or being too idiosyncratically gifted or plain wild to sit meekly in a classroom. plain wild to sit meekly in a classroom. plain wild to sit meekly in a classroom. The line between working and The line between working and The line between working and philosophizing blurred. We were philosophizing blurred. We were philosophizing blurred. We were brainstorming these big ideas. There was brainstorming these big ideas. There was brainstorming these big ideas. There was this thrill of unbridled creation. And this thrill of unbridled creation. And this thrill of unbridled creation. And so, the founder of Bullfrog is his guy so, the founder of Bullfrog is his guy so, the founder of Bullfrog is his guy named Peter Mullenu. And he gives Demis named Peter Mullenu. And he gives Demis named Peter Mullenu. And he gives Demis a life-changing book. The book is called a life-changing book. The book is called a life-changing book. The book is called Gold, Echer, and Bach. And then the way Gold, Echer, and Bach. And then the way Gold, Echer, and Bach. And then the way the book is described in this book, it the book is described in this book, it the book is described in this book, it says it was a fire hose of a book that says it was a fire hose of a book that says it was a fire hose of a book that inspired a remarkable number of future inspired a remarkable number of future inspired a remarkable number of future AI scientists. As a chess prodigy, Demis AI scientists. As a chess prodigy, Demis AI scientists. As a chess prodigy, Demis had long been curious about the workings had long been curious about the workings had long been curious about the workings of his own mind. How did his brain of his own mind. How did his brain of his own mind. How did his brain formulate moves? Why did it make formulate moves? Why did it make formulate moves? Why did it make mistakes? And what was behind this mistakes? And what was behind this mistakes? And what was behind this phenomenon called thinking? The author phenomenon called thinking? The author phenomenon called thinking? The author of the book attacked these questions as of the book attacked these questions as of the book attacked these questions as a physicist, insisting that human a physicist, insisting that human a physicist, insisting that human intelligence and computer intelligence intelligence and computer intelligence intelligence and computer intelligence are virtually indistinguishable. And so are virtually indistinguishable. And so are virtually indistinguishable. And so he's around 16 years old at the time. He he's around 16 years old at the time. He he's around 16 years old at the time. He was living away from his parents, was living away from his parents, was living away from his parents, surrounded by rebels who love to dream surrounded by rebels who love to dream surrounded by rebels who love to dream about AI under the watch of a mentor who about AI under the watch of a mentor who about AI under the watch of a mentor who encouraged these passions. We were encouraged these passions. We were encouraged these passions. We were discussing AI all the time, Demis discussing AI all the time, Demis discussing AI all the time, Demis recalled. How could it help the games? recalled. How could it help the games? recalled. How could it help the games? What would it take to build it? At the What would it take to build it? At the What would it take to build it? At the same time, Demis was inhaling science same time, Demis was inhaling science same time, Demis was inhaling science fiction. He was reading Isaac Azimoff's fiction. He was reading Isaac Azimoff's fiction. He was reading Isaac Azimoff's Foundation series and Ian Banks culture Foundation series and Ian Banks culture Foundation series and Ian Banks culture series. And this is how all these series. And this is how all these series. And this is how all these experiences came together. Demis' experiences came together. Demis' experiences came together. Demis' experience at Bullfrog answered his big experience at Bullfrog answered his big experience at Bullfrog answered his big question. His mission and purpose would question. His mission and purpose would question. His mission and purpose would be to build artificial intelligence. be to build artificial intelligence. be to build artificial intelligence. Molyneu and the book that he gave him Molyneu and the book that he gave him Molyneu and the book that he gave him had planted the idea that computers had planted the idea that computers had planted the idea that computers would soon do whatever the brain could would soon do whatever the brain could would soon do whatever the brain could do. Ian Banks gave him this applied do. Ian Banks gave him this applied do. Ian Banks gave him this applied utopian vision of what AI's realization utopian vision of what AI's realization utopian vision of what AI's realization could mean. Boundless human flourishing. could mean. Boundless human flourishing. could mean. Boundless human flourishing. I decided then that I was going to I decided then that I was going to I decided then that I was going to dedicate my career to working on AI. dedicate my career to working on AI. dedicate my career to working on AI. Deis recalled. I had already had the Deis recalled. I had already had the Deis recalled. I had already had the kernel of the idea for what eventually kernel of the idea for what eventually kernel of the idea for what eventually became DeepMind. And so this will give became DeepMind. And so this will give became DeepMind. And so this will give you an indication of just how special you an indication of just how special you an indication of just how special Demis was. He quits Bullfrog because he Demis was. He quits Bullfrog because he Demis was. He quits Bullfrog because he wants to attend Cambridge. The founder wants to attend Cambridge. The founder wants to attend Cambridge. The founder did everything possible to persuade him did everything possible to persuade him did everything possible to persuade him not to go. He writes out a check for not to go. He writes out a check for not to go. He writes out a check for £500,000 to get him to work on £500,000 to get him to work on £500,000 to get him to work on Bullfrog's next game. Keep in mind, this Bullfrog's next game. Keep in mind, this Bullfrog's next game. Keep in mind, this is a poor 17 or 18-year-old at the time. is a poor 17 or 18-year-old at the time. is a poor 17 or 18-year-old at the time. He does not have money. That amount of He does not have money. That amount of He does not have money. That amount of money would be 1.7 million in today's money would be 1.7 million in today's money would be 1.7 million in today's money. And Demis refuses. And so, while money. And Demis refuses. And so, while money. And Demis refuses. And so, while at college, he's thinking about what he at college, he's thinking about what he at college, he's thinking about what he wants to do for his life. At some time, wants to do for his life. At some time, wants to do for his life. At some time, he gets really interested in theoretical he gets really interested in theoretical he gets really interested in theoretical physics. But then again, this is so physics. But then again, this is so physics. But then again, this is so important to understanding just how important to understanding just how important to understanding just how competitive he is. He realizes he can't competitive he is. He realizes he can't competitive he is. He realizes he can't go into a career in theoretical physics. go into a career in theoretical physics. go into a career in theoretical physics. He says when he signed up for a game, he He says when he signed up for a game, he He says when he signed up for a game, he liked to feel that he could win and liked to feel that he could win and liked to feel that he could win and physics seemed like a long shot. And one physics seemed like a long shot. And one physics seemed like a long shot. And one of the most fascinating things about of the most fascinating things about of the most fascinating things about Demis is that he's insanely competitive Demis is that he's insanely competitive Demis is that he's insanely competitive but unbelievably kind and nice and but unbelievably kind and nice and but unbelievably kind and nice and approachable. And so the author is approachable. And so the author is approachable. And so the author is struck by this and he asks about this. struck by this and he asks about this. struck by this and he asks about this. He goes, "One day I asked Dennis about He goes, "One day I asked Dennis about He goes, "One day I asked Dennis about his friendly approachability." Deon his friendly approachability." Deon his friendly approachability." Deon says, "I've always tried to live like says, "I've always tried to live like says, "I've always tried to live like that. It is a very deep personal that. It is a very deep personal that. It is a very deep personal philosophy. I think it's just my philosophy. I think it's just my philosophy. I think it's just my personality. I want to help people and I personality. I want to help people and I personality. I want to help people and I feel very strongly that it's really bad feel very strongly that it's really bad feel very strongly that it's really bad to manipulate or control people. And so to manipulate or control people. And so to manipulate or control people. And so at this point, Demis is building his at this point, Demis is building his at this point, Demis is building his worldview. And one of the most important worldview. And one of the most important worldview. And one of the most important things is something he repeats things is something he repeats things is something he repeats throughout this book is that he believes throughout this book is that he believes throughout this book is that he believes that information is the fundamental unit that information is the fundamental unit that information is the fundamental unit of the universe. And so he has what's of the universe. And so he has what's of the universe. And so he has what's described as a two-part epiphany, described as a two-part epiphany, described as a two-part epiphany, something that sticks with him something that sticks with him something that sticks with him throughout his entire career. Number throughout his entire career. Number throughout his entire career. Number one, information was the fundamental one, information was the fundamental one, information was the fundamental unit of reality. Number two, a machine unit of reality. Number two, a machine unit of reality. Number two, a machine that learned for itself how to induce that learned for itself how to induce that learned for itself how to induce nature's patterns was the most powerful nature's patterns was the most powerful nature's patterns was the most powerful imaginable tool with which to apprehend imaginable tool with which to apprehend imaginable tool with which to apprehend reality. While artificial intelligence reality. While artificial intelligence reality. While artificial intelligence could push the frontiers of science, it could push the frontiers of science, it could push the frontiers of science, it could also do much else besides that. It could also do much else besides that. It could also do much else besides that. It could discover medicines, extend the could discover medicines, extend the could discover medicines, extend the lifespan of humans, solve the obstacles lifespan of humans, solve the obstacles lifespan of humans, solve the obstacles to nuclear fusion, rendering energy to nuclear fusion, rendering energy to nuclear fusion, rendering energy clean and abundant. As Demis once put clean and abundant. As Demis once put clean and abundant. As Demis once put it, what we are working on is it, what we are working on is it, what we are working on is potentially a meta solution to any potentially a meta solution to any potentially a meta solution to any problem. A machine that can navigate an problem. A machine that can navigate an problem. A machine that can navigate an infinity of data would be infinite in infinity of data would be infinite in infinity of data would be infinite in its reach. Let's go back to this idea its reach. Let's go back to this idea its reach. Let's go back to this idea that his ability to think for himself, that his ability to think for himself, that his ability to think for himself, to forge his own path. You see it when to forge his own path. You see it when to forge his own path. You see it when he was a kid. You see it is in college. he was a kid. You see it is in college. he was a kid. You see it is in college. He's still like this to this day. He's still like this to this day. He's still like this to this day. Towards the end of his time at Towards the end of his time at Towards the end of his time at Cambridge. He had confided to his Cambridge. He had confided to his Cambridge. He had confided to his friends that to pursue his dream of friends that to pursue his dream of friends that to pursue his dream of building AI, he planned to found a building AI, he planned to found a building AI, he planned to found a company. It was a shocking idea. company. It was a shocking idea. company. It was a shocking idea. Entrepreneurship was a foreign concept Entrepreneurship was a foreign concept Entrepreneurship was a foreign concept on the Cambridge campus. Britain had no on the Cambridge campus. Britain had no on the Cambridge campus. Britain had no equivalent to Silicon Valley. If you'd equivalent to Silicon Valley. If you'd equivalent to Silicon Valley. If you'd looked at the students and asked who's looked at the students and asked who's looked at the students and asked who's going to set up a company, the answer going to set up a company, the answer going to set up a company, the answer would have been nobody. Demis was the would have been nobody. Demis was the would have been nobody. Demis was the exception. He saw no reason not to start exception. He saw no reason not to start exception. He saw no reason not to start a company. So, he did. And he talks a company. So, he did. And he talks a company. So, he did. And he talks about this. I'm not going to sit around about this. I'm not going to sit around about this. I'm not going to sit around wondering what might have been. You only wondering what might have been. You only wondering what might have been. You only get one life. He said that part reminded get one life. He said that part reminded get one life. He said that part reminded me that Steve Jobs mentor who's the me that Steve Jobs mentor who's the me that Steve Jobs mentor who's the founder of Atari observed that Steve founder of Atari observed that Steve founder of Atari observed that Steve Jobs only had one speed. That a young Jobs only had one speed. That a young Jobs only had one speed. That a young Steve Jobs only had one speed and that Steve Jobs only had one speed and that Steve Jobs only had one speed and that speed was go. Deis is the same way. And speed was go. Deis is the same way. And speed was go. Deis is the same way. And so he's going to start his first so he's going to start his first so he's going to start his first company. And this is where his charisma, company. And this is where his charisma, company. And this is where his charisma, his persuasion, his ability to his persuasion, his ability to his persuasion, his ability to articulate his ideas, his passion all articulate his ideas, his passion all articulate his ideas, his passion all come into play. His powers of persuasion come into play. His powers of persuasion come into play. His powers of persuasion were uncanny. Demis had what we called a were uncanny. Demis had what we called a were uncanny. Demis had what we called a Jedi mind trick. He would kind of be Jedi mind trick. He would kind of be Jedi mind trick. He would kind of be like, "You will believe the things I'm like, "You will believe the things I'm like, "You will believe the things I'm going to say." And then people did going to say." And then people did going to say." And then people did believe them. And so his first idea is believe them. And so his first idea is believe them. And so his first idea is to start this gaming company called to start this gaming company called to start this gaming company called Elixir. Like he said before, games were Elixir. Like he said before, games were Elixir. Like he said before, games were his path into AI. He has all kinds of his path into AI. He has all kinds of his path into AI. He has all kinds of trouble now and later with venture trouble now and later with venture trouble now and later with venture capitalists. At this point, they said capitalists. At this point, they said capitalists. At this point, they said they'll give him some money, but you they'll give him some money, but you they'll give him some money, but you have to give up more than half the have to give up more than half the have to give up more than half the equity of the company. And the reason I equity of the company. And the reason I equity of the company. And the reason I bring this out to you is because I think bring this out to you is because I think bring this out to you is because I think this is one of the most pronounced this is one of the most pronounced this is one of the most pronounced aspects of his personality. He says if aspects of his personality. He says if aspects of his personality. He says if there was one thing that Demis hated, it there was one thing that Demis hated, it there was one thing that Demis hated, it was to be controlled by anyone. This is was to be controlled by anyone. This is was to be controlled by anyone. This is what he said. They wanted our souls in what he said. They wanted our souls in what he said. They wanted our souls in exchange for the money. Again, this is exchange for the money. Again, this is exchange for the money. Again, this is very fascinating. We'll get to this very fascinating. We'll get to this very fascinating. We'll get to this later, but one reason that Demis sells later, but one reason that Demis sells later, but one reason that Demis sells DeepMind to Google was to avoid having DeepMind to Google was to avoid having DeepMind to Google was to avoid having to be what I think he calls it like the to be what I think he calls it like the to be what I think he calls it like the hamster wheel of raising money from hamster wheel of raising money from hamster wheel of raising money from investors. He rightly saw that as just a investors. He rightly saw that as just a investors. He rightly saw that as just a giant distraction to his mission. And giant distraction to his mission. And giant distraction to his mission. And that leads us to another reoccurring that leads us to another reoccurring that leads us to another reoccurring theme throughout his life and throughout theme throughout his life and throughout theme throughout his life and throughout the book is just Demis is insanely the book is just Demis is insanely the book is just Demis is insanely practical. He also is going to learn practical. He also is going to learn practical. He also is going to learn from every single experience experience from every single experience experience from every single experience experience that he has. And so as Demis talked that he has. And so as Demis talked that he has. And so as Demis talked about starting a company, his ambition about starting a company, his ambition about starting a company, his ambition had been to build powerful AI, not just had been to build powerful AI, not just had been to build powerful AI, not just to design video games. In founding to design video games. In founding to design video games. In founding Elixir, he was balancing his ambition Elixir, he was balancing his ambition Elixir, he was balancing his ambition against his practical side. His ultimate against his practical side. His ultimate against his practical side. His ultimate dream was creating a Manhattan project dream was creating a Manhattan project dream was creating a Manhattan project for artificial intelligence. That for artificial intelligence. That for artificial intelligence. That metaphor, that idea, hey, we're going to metaphor, that idea, hey, we're going to metaphor, that idea, hey, we're going to create a Manhattan project for create a Manhattan project for create a Manhattan project for artificial intelligence. That's used artificial intelligence. That's used artificial intelligence. That's used constantly throughout the book. And in constantly throughout the book. And in constantly throughout the book. And in the middle of this, there's this just a the middle of this, there's this just a the middle of this, there's this just a phenomenal line because I keep trying to phenomenal line because I keep trying to phenomenal line because I keep trying to hound the fact that Demis hates losing, hound the fact that Demis hates losing, hound the fact that Demis hates losing, that he is hyper competitive. This is that he is hyper competitive. This is that he is hyper competitive. This is what he this is how he describes what what he this is how he describes what what he this is how he describes what losing feels like to him. It's like my losing feels like to him. It's like my losing feels like to him. It's like my soul is on fire. And so one way that soul is on fire. And so one way that soul is on fire. And so one way that Demis learns to be more practical is by Demis learns to be more practical is by Demis learns to be more practical is by making a mistake. He has this he has making a mistake. He has this he has making a mistake. He has this he has this idea for this game called Republic. this idea for this game called Republic. this idea for this game called Republic. Republic was this overly ambitious Republic was this overly ambitious Republic was this overly ambitious basically techn technically impossible basically techn technically impossible basically techn technically impossible idea of a game. It's going to lead to idea of a game. It's going to lead to idea of a game. It's going to lead to the failure of his first company. And the failure of his first company. And the failure of his first company. And there's just this really great point there's just this really great point there's just this really great point that he makes here. Over the next couple that he makes here. Over the next couple that he makes here. Over the next couple years, Republic's release date was years, Republic's release date was years, Republic's release date was pushed back repeatedly. As the keeper of pushed back repeatedly. As the keeper of pushed back repeatedly. As the keeper of the vision, Demis fought a rear guard the vision, Demis fought a rear guard the vision, Demis fought a rear guard action against compromise. And it took action against compromise. And it took action against compromise. And it took time for him to recognize the trap that time for him to recognize the trap that time for him to recognize the trap that his own charisma created. Who would have his own charisma created. Who would have his own charisma created. Who would have thought that you can actually inspire thought that you can actually inspire thought that you can actually inspire people too much? He said, "Well, you can people too much? He said, "Well, you can people too much? He said, "Well, you can because you can get to the point where because you can get to the point where because you can get to the point where you're deluding your team and then they you're deluding your team and then they you're deluding your team and then they are deluding you also. It's like I'm are deluding you also. It's like I'm are deluding you also. It's like I'm making this judgment that this is making this judgment that this is making this judgment that this is possible because the engineers are possible because the engineers are possible because the engineers are telling me it's possible, but they're telling me it's possible, but they're telling me it's possible, but they're only telling me it's possible because only telling me it's possible because only telling me it's possible because I've overinsspired them," Demis said. I've overinsspired them," Demis said. I've overinsspired them," Demis said. So, in fact, none of us were getting So, in fact, none of us were getting So, in fact, none of us were getting real feedback. his co-founder talks real feedback. his co-founder talks real feedback. his co-founder talks about on how to communicate and debate about on how to communicate and debate about on how to communicate and debate and really just persuade Demis. You had and really just persuade Demis. You had and really just persuade Demis. You had to push the conversation to the point to push the conversation to the point to push the conversation to the point where he got more and more intense and where he got more and more intense and where he got more and more intense and defended his positions more and more defended his positions more and more defended his positions more and more strongly. The stronger he got, the strongly. The stronger he got, the strongly. The stronger he got, the closer you were, then eventually he closer you were, then eventually he closer you were, then eventually he might go quiet. That's when he absorbed might go quiet. That's when he absorbed might go quiet. That's when he absorbed the message. And so after this, he's the message. And so after this, he's the message. And so after this, he's thinking about what to do. This is right thinking about what to do. This is right thinking about what to do. This is right before he founds Deep Mind. And the before he founds Deep Mind. And the before he founds Deep Mind. And the author does a great job of describing author does a great job of describing author does a great job of describing again just how he's learning from again just how he's learning from again just how he's learning from everything and how all these experiences everything and how all these experiences everything and how all these experiences fit together. I marveled how Demis' fit together. I marveled how Demis' fit together. I marveled how Demis' experience and ideas appeared to slot experience and ideas appeared to slot experience and ideas appeared to slot together. His curiosity about physics together. His curiosity about physics together. His curiosity about physics had spurred him to work on AI, the had spurred him to work on AI, the had spurred him to work on AI, the ultimate tool to unlock science. His ultimate tool to unlock science. His ultimate tool to unlock science. His curiosity about AI had led him to curiosity about AI had led him to curiosity about AI had led him to investigate the human brain, the investigate the human brain, the investigate the human brain, the existence proof for intelligence. His existence proof for intelligence. His existence proof for intelligence. His work on simulations in video games work on simulations in video games work on simulations in video games echoed his research on simulations in echoed his research on simulations in echoed his research on simulations in the mind and the influences of Emanuel the mind and the influences of Emanuel the mind and the influences of Emanuel Kant of that book God Esher and Bach and Kant of that book God Esher and Bach and Kant of that book God Esher and Bach and neuroscience had pushed Demis towards neuroscience had pushed Demis towards neuroscience had pushed Demis towards the same bottom line that information the same bottom line that information the same bottom line that information was the fundamental unit of reality a was the fundamental unit of reality a was the fundamental unit of reality a futuristic computer a powerful AI might futuristic computer a powerful AI might futuristic computer a powerful AI might be limitless infinite and so there is be limitless infinite and so there is be limitless infinite and so there is all kinds of interesting characters in all kinds of interesting characters in all kinds of interesting characters in this book I'm going to focus mainly on this book I'm going to focus mainly on this book I'm going to focus mainly on Demis considering how important AI is Demis considering how important AI is Demis considering how important AI is becoming in our world I would highly becoming in our world I would highly becoming in our world I would highly recommend reading reading the book. recommend reading reading the book. recommend reading reading the book. There is a lot of fascinating stories There is a lot of fascinating stories There is a lot of fascinating stories about how they actually built the about how they actually built the about how they actually built the technology that are in the book that I technology that are in the book that I technology that are in the book that I think you should read. And then Demis is think you should read. And then Demis is think you should read. And then Demis is constantly interacting with and his constantly interacting with and his constantly interacting with and his stories, you know, weaving in and out of stories, you know, weaving in and out of stories, you know, weaving in and out of all these other phenomenal entrepreneurs all these other phenomenal entrepreneurs all these other phenomenal entrepreneurs and well-known investors. The first one and well-known investors. The first one and well-known investors. The first one is Peter Teal. Demis needs money for is Peter Teal. Demis needs money for is Peter Teal. Demis needs money for Deep Mind. So, he finds a way to pitch Deep Mind. So, he finds a way to pitch Deep Mind. So, he finds a way to pitch Peter Teal. They're at this party at a Peter Teal. They're at this party at a Peter Teal. They're at this party at a conference. This has instead of pitching conference. This has instead of pitching conference. This has instead of pitching Peter Teal with yet another startup Peter Teal with yet another startup Peter Teal with yet another startup story and doing so in the middle of a story and doing so in the middle of a story and doing so in the middle of a crowded party. Demis hooked Teal with crowded party. Demis hooked Teal with crowded party. Demis hooked Teal with chess. So, he starts talking about chess chess. So, he starts talking about chess chess. So, he starts talking about chess with te with Peter because he knew that with te with Peter because he knew that with te with Peter because he knew that Peter was obsessed with chess. Teal then Peter was obsessed with chess. Teal then Peter was obsessed with chess. Teal then invites Demis and his co-founder over to invites Demis and his co-founder over to invites Demis and his co-founder over to his house the next day to explain their his house the next day to explain their his house the next day to explain their ambitious venture. When they do so, says ambitious venture. When they do so, says ambitious venture. When they do so, says Tiel began to think this project was an Tiel began to think this project was an Tiel began to think this project was an A+ on the science and maybe an F on the A+ on the science and maybe an F on the A+ on the science and maybe an F on the business model. But he had also had a business model. But he had also had a business model. But he had also had a further thought. Deis was an extreme further thought. Deis was an extreme further thought. Deis was an extreme case of an authentic entrepreneur. Not a case of an authentic entrepreneur. Not a case of an authentic entrepreneur. Not a mercenary who starts with a desire to mercenary who starts with a desire to mercenary who starts with a desire to get rich from a startup then casts get rich from a startup then casts get rich from a startup then casts around for a plausible idea, but rather around for a plausible idea, but rather around for a plausible idea, but rather a missionary who feels compelled to work a missionary who feels compelled to work a missionary who feels compelled to work on a particular challenge then starts a on a particular challenge then starts a on a particular challenge then starts a company as a way of tackling it. The company as a way of tackling it. The company as a way of tackling it. The good thing about missionaries is that good thing about missionaries is that good thing about missionaries is that they never quit. Even if they have to they never quit. Even if they have to they never quit. Even if they have to work around the clock and pay themselves work around the clock and pay themselves work around the clock and pay themselves nothing, they will keep obsessing about nothing, they will keep obsessing about nothing, they will keep obsessing about the problem. I always say that people the problem. I always say that people the problem. I always say that people aren't really entrepreneurs in the aren't really entrepreneurs in the aren't really entrepreneurs in the abstract, but there's maybe one great abstract, but there's maybe one great abstract, but there's maybe one great company that somebody has in them. Peter company that somebody has in them. Peter company that somebody has in them. Peter said it was Demis' destiny to build this said it was Demis' destiny to build this said it was Demis' destiny to build this one. And so he's raising money from one. And so he's raising money from one. And so he's raising money from Peter Teal. They build this business Peter Teal. They build this business Peter Teal. They build this business plan, this deck of deep mind. There's plan, this deck of deep mind. There's plan, this deck of deep mind. There's just a couple things I want to pull out just a couple things I want to pull out just a couple things I want to pull out from this business plan, from this deck from this business plan, from this deck from this business plan, from this deck that I thought was interesting. In the that I thought was interesting. In the that I thought was interesting. In the deck, it has a quote from Bill Gates. deck, it has a quote from Bill Gates. deck, it has a quote from Bill Gates. Remember, the idea for an AI company's Remember, the idea for an AI company's Remember, the idea for an AI company's ridiculous at this time. This is the ridiculous at this time. This is the ridiculous at this time. This is the quote. If you invent a breakthrough in quote. If you invent a breakthrough in quote. If you invent a breakthrough in artificial intelligence so machines can artificial intelligence so machines can artificial intelligence so machines can learn, that would be worth 10 learn, that would be worth 10 learn, that would be worth 10 microsofts. microsofts. microsofts. And then it lays out what they're trying And then it lays out what they're trying And then it lays out what they're trying to do. As the business plan explained, to do. As the business plan explained, to do. As the business plan explained, the human brain had limited storage the human brain had limited storage the human brain had limited storage capacity and humans had limited capacity and humans had limited capacity and humans had limited lifespans. Grouping humans together lifespans. Grouping humans together lifespans. Grouping humans together resulted in diminishing returns because resulted in diminishing returns because resulted in diminishing returns because big organizations are sluggish. In some big organizations are sluggish. In some big organizations are sluggish. In some the intricacy of society's most pressing the intricacy of society's most pressing the intricacy of society's most pressing challenges lay beyond the reach of human challenges lay beyond the reach of human challenges lay beyond the reach of human capabilities. AGI is the solution to capabilities. AGI is the solution to capabilities. AGI is the solution to this problem. Perhaps more audaciously, this problem. Perhaps more audaciously, this problem. Perhaps more audaciously, Deep Mind asserted that its ultra Deep Mind asserted that its ultra Deep Mind asserted that its ultra ambitious conception of AI made progress ambitious conception of AI made progress ambitious conception of AI made progress more likely. Other AI research sought to more likely. Other AI research sought to more likely. Other AI research sought to maximize the chances of success by maximize the chances of success by maximize the chances of success by focusing on narrow tasks. Training a focusing on narrow tasks. Training a focusing on narrow tasks. Training a system to recognize images, for example. system to recognize images, for example. system to recognize images, for example. In contrast, deep mind was out to build In contrast, deep mind was out to build In contrast, deep mind was out to build agents, not merely systems. The agents, not merely systems. The agents, not merely systems. The difference was that agents would be more difference was that agents would be more difference was that agents would be more general and proactive. Rather than being general and proactive. Rather than being general and proactive. Rather than being engineered by humans to master a single engineered by humans to master a single engineered by humans to master a single finite task, agents would learn broadly finite task, agents would learn broadly finite task, agents would learn broadly and autonomously, mastering a wide range and autonomously, mastering a wide range and autonomously, mastering a wide range of problems as they interacted with of problems as they interacted with of problems as they interacted with their environment. The jump in their environment. The jump in their environment. The jump in complexity was vast. Rather than complexity was vast. Rather than complexity was vast. Rather than building the digital equivalent of a building the digital equivalent of a building the digital equivalent of a house, DeepMine aspired to build a city. house, DeepMine aspired to build a city. house, DeepMine aspired to build a city. And so Demis and one of his co-founders, And so Demis and one of his co-founders, And so Demis and one of his co-founders, there's three co-founders. It's Demis, there's three co-founders. It's Demis, there's three co-founders. It's Demis, Shane Le, and Mustafa Sulleman. And so Shane Le, and Mustafa Sulleman. And so Shane Le, and Mustafa Sulleman. And so Demis and Mustafa are out trying to Demis and Mustafa are out trying to Demis and Mustafa are out trying to raise money. There's just so many raise money. There's just so many raise money. There's just so many bizarre stories in the book. I've heard bizarre stories in the book. I've heard bizarre stories in the book. I've heard so many investor horror stories from so many investor horror stories from so many investor horror stories from founders, most of which are not repeated founders, most of which are not repeated founders, most of which are not repeated publicly, unfortunately. Let's just say publicly, unfortunately. Let's just say publicly, unfortunately. Let's just say there's just a lot of creeps and weirdos there's just a lot of creeps and weirdos there's just a lot of creeps and weirdos out there. So when I got to this out there. So when I got to this out there. So when I got to this section, my note was very simple. WTF section, my note was very simple. WTF section, my note was very simple. WTF says, "In September 2010, Deis Mustafa says, "In September 2010, Deis Mustafa says, "In September 2010, Deis Mustafa appeared before a strange kind of appeared before a strange kind of appeared before a strange kind of investment committee. David Gammon investment committee. David Gammon investment committee. David Gammon declared himself ready to commit declared himself ready to commit declared himself ready to commit capital, but he'd only go forward if capital, but he'd only go forward if capital, but he'd only go forward if DeepMind did things his way. DeepMind did things his way. DeepMind did things his way. Entrepreneurs seeking his support Entrepreneurs seeking his support Entrepreneurs seeking his support required to visit his home and pitch to required to visit his home and pitch to required to visit his home and pitch to Gammon, his wife, and his three teenage Gammon, his wife, and his three teenage Gammon, his wife, and his three teenage sons. Each family member would get an sons. Each family member would get an sons. Each family member would get an equal say on whether to invest. I said equal say on whether to invest. I said equal say on whether to invest. I said to Demis, "If you can't explain this to to Demis, "If you can't explain this to to Demis, "If you can't explain this to my younger son, you're not going to get my younger son, you're not going to get my younger son, you're not going to get his vote." There was a painfully large his vote." There was a painfully large his vote." There was a painfully large gap between the grand science of the gap between the grand science of the gap between the grand science of the Deep Mind business plan and an Deep Mind business plan and an Deep Mind business plan and an invitation to chat with a middle invitation to chat with a middle invitation to chat with a middle schooler. That is just flatout bizarre. schooler. That is just flatout bizarre. schooler. That is just flatout bizarre. So eventually Demis raises money from So eventually Demis raises money from So eventually Demis raises money from Peter Thiel. There's some interesting Peter Thiel. There's some interesting Peter Thiel. There's some interesting background here that I think you'd be background here that I think you'd be background here that I think you'd be interested in. As a general matter, interested in. As a general matter, interested in. As a general matter, Peter Thiel doubted that going on boards Peter Thiel doubted that going on boards Peter Thiel doubted that going on boards was a good use of his partner's time. was a good use of his partner's time. was a good use of his partner's time. Startup should be left to sink or swim. Startup should be left to sink or swim. Startup should be left to sink or swim. The art of venture capital, he liked to The art of venture capital, he liked to The art of venture capital, he liked to say, was to back contrarian ideas, not say, was to back contrarian ideas, not say, was to back contrarian ideas, not coach company founders. Teal had taken coach company founders. Teal had taken coach company founders. Teal had taken the unusual position that collective the unusual position that collective the unusual position that collective decision-making should be avoided. The decision-making should be avoided. The decision-making should be avoided. The way he saw things, if investments were way he saw things, if investments were way he saw things, if investments were chosen based on voting, the founders chosen based on voting, the founders chosen based on voting, the founders fund portfolio would consist of fund portfolio would consist of fund portfolio would consist of middle-of the road startups to which middle-of the road startups to which middle-of the road startups to which nobody objected. Given that all the nobody objected. Given that all the nobody objected. Given that all the profits in venture come from a few profits in venture come from a few profits in venture come from a few improbable moonshots, this sort of improbable moonshots, this sort of improbable moonshots, this sort of consensus portfolio would deliver consensus portfolio would deliver consensus portfolio would deliver mediocre performance. mediocre performance. mediocre performance. Founders Fund wired 2.3 million. This Founders Fund wired 2.3 million. This Founders Fund wired 2.3 million. This gives you an idea of just how hard it gives you an idea of just how hard it gives you an idea of just how hard it was to raise money for his idea, for was to raise money for his idea, for was to raise money for his idea, for Demis' idea. Founders Fund wired 2.3 Demis' idea. Founders Fund wired 2.3 Demis' idea. Founders Fund wired 2.3 million to DeepMine and they assumed million to DeepMine and they assumed million to DeepMine and they assumed ownership of a bit less than half the ownership of a bit less than half the ownership of a bit less than half the company. There was no other capital company. There was no other capital company. There was no other capital available. This is December 2010. Peter available. This is December 2010. Peter available. This is December 2010. Peter Teal reappears over and over again in Teal reappears over and over again in Teal reappears over and over again in the story. He actually has one of my the story. He actually has one of my the story. He actually has one of my all-time favorite quotes. It's in his all-time favorite quotes. It's in his all-time favorite quotes. It's in his book 0ero to1. It says, "The single most book 0ero to1. It says, "The single most book 0ero to1. It says, "The single most powerful pattern I have noticed is that powerful pattern I have noticed is that powerful pattern I have noticed is that successful people find value in successful people find value in successful people find value in unexpected places." And they do this by unexpected places." And they do this by unexpected places." And they do this by thinking about business from first thinking about business from first thinking about business from first principles instead of formulas. That is principles instead of formulas. That is principles instead of formulas. That is exactly what my partner Apploven has exactly what my partner Apploven has exactly what my partner Apploven has done with their new advertising done with their new advertising done with their new advertising platform, Axon. Axon is the most platform, Axon. Axon is the most platform, Axon. 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Less than 1% of about this channel yet. Less than 1% of advertisers have access to Axon. So you advertisers have access to Axon. So you advertisers have access to Axon. So you want to get started quickly and you can want to get started quickly and you can want to get started quickly and you can do that by going to axon.aifounders. do that by going to axon.aifounders. do that by going to axon.aifounders. That is axon.ai/founders. That is axon.ai/founders. That is axon.ai/founders. And before we get back into this And before we get back into this And before we get back into this episode, I need to tell you about Vanta. episode, I need to tell you about Vanta. episode, I need to tell you about Vanta. Vanta. Vanta. Vanta. Vanta helps your Vanta. Vanta. Vanta. Vanta helps your Vanta. Vanta. Vanta. 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Go to vanta.com/founders vanta.com/founders vanta.com/founders and you'll get $1,000 off. That is and you'll get $1,000 off. That is and you'll get $1,000 off. That is vanta.com/founders. vanta.com/founders. vanta.com/founders. Nobody believed in the future value of Nobody believed in the future value of Nobody believed in the future value of DeepMind stock. Prestigious figures in DeepMind stock. Prestigious figures in DeepMind stock. Prestigious figures in the field assume that a research team the field assume that a research team the field assume that a research team with no revenues would do interesting with no revenues would do interesting with no revenues would do interesting steines for a couple years and then they steines for a couple years and then they steines for a couple years and then they would go out of business and Demis is would go out of business and Demis is would go out of business and Demis is just completely undeterred. This is very just completely undeterred. This is very just completely undeterred. This is very fascinating how they recruit some of the fascinating how they recruit some of the fascinating how they recruit some of the first employees to deep mind. This is a first employees to deep mind. This is a first employees to deep mind. This is a scientific challenge. As scientific scientific challenge. As scientific scientific challenge. As scientific startups, you need blue sky thinkers who startups, you need blue sky thinkers who startups, you need blue sky thinkers who wander into the unknown. We only wanted wander into the unknown. We only wanted wander into the unknown. We only wanted hardcore believers. We would go to these hardcore believers. We would go to these hardcore believers. We would go to these conferences and tell people, "We're conferences and tell people, "We're conferences and tell people, "We're starting an AGI company." 80% of the starting an AGI company." 80% of the starting an AGI company." 80% of the people would roll their eyes at us. people would roll their eyes at us. people would roll their eyes at us. literally roll their eyes at us and turn literally roll their eyes at us and turn literally roll their eyes at us and turn around and walk away. We figured that around and walk away. We figured that around and walk away. We figured that this was a very efficient way to this was a very efficient way to this was a very efficient way to discover who we should be talking to. discover who we should be talking to. discover who we should be talking to. And they also had a really interesting And they also had a really interesting And they also had a really interesting pitch to recruits. It was this. The pitch to recruits. It was this. The pitch to recruits. It was this. The culture of academia could be both culture of academia could be both culture of academia could be both boringly cautious and terrifyingly boringly cautious and terrifyingly boringly cautious and terrifyingly competitive. Boring because it pursued competitive. Boring because it pursued competitive. Boring because it pursued incremental advances. Terrifying because incremental advances. Terrifying because incremental advances. Terrifying because scientists cut each other's throats to scientists cut each other's throats to scientists cut each other's throats to be the first to publish. At DeepMind, be the first to publish. At DeepMind, be the first to publish. At DeepMind, we're promising the opposite experience. we're promising the opposite experience. we're promising the opposite experience. the thrilling pursuit of the big leap the thrilling pursuit of the big leap the thrilling pursuit of the big leap and the near absence of rivals. We are and the near absence of rivals. We are and the near absence of rivals. We are going to do stuff where there's no going to do stuff where there's no going to do stuff where there's no competition because no one thinks it's competition because no one thinks it's competition because no one thinks it's possible. Blessed are those who believed possible. Blessed are those who believed possible. Blessed are those who believed before there was any evidence. And so before there was any evidence. And so before there was any evidence. And so one of the first things they do, I think one of the first things they do, I think one of the first things they do, I think this is really important, the fact that this is really important, the fact that this is really important, the fact that this this to me is really the power of this this to me is really the power of this this to me is really the power of biography because you see that you see biography because you see that you see biography because you see that you see the evolution of their thinking and the evolution of their thinking and the evolution of their thinking and their behavior over time. He is learning their behavior over time. He is learning their behavior over time. He is learning he's learning from his failed experiment he's learning from his failed experiment he's learning from his failed experiment with his previous company. So, DeepMind, with his previous company. So, DeepMind, with his previous company. So, DeepMind, what they want to do is they're trying what they want to do is they're trying what they want to do is they're trying to create an agent that can make plans to create an agent that can make plans to create an agent that can make plans and achieve goals in multiple and achieve goals in multiple and achieve goals in multiple environments. And so, they start out on environments. And so, they start out on environments. And so, they start out on what they think is the perfect what they think is the perfect what they think is the perfect environment for testing an agent. All environment for testing an agent. All environment for testing an agent. All the video games that were designed in the video games that were designed in the video games that were designed in the 1970s and ' 80s by Atari. And this the 1970s and ' 80s by Atari. And this the 1970s and ' 80s by Atari. And this is why given the primitive state of is why given the primitive state of is why given the primitive state of video graphics in that era, the video graphics in that era, the video graphics in that era, the computing power required to crack Atari computing power required to crack Atari computing power required to crack Atari would be affordable. Given that Atari would be affordable. Given that Atari would be affordable. Given that Atari had released dozens of games, an agent had released dozens of games, an agent had released dozens of games, an agent would have plenty of opportunities to would have plenty of opportunities to would have plenty of opportunities to prove it could be general. Given that prove it could be general. Given that prove it could be general. Given that most Atari games featured a constantly most Atari games featured a constantly most Atari games featured a constantly updating score, the agent would have the updating score, the agent would have the updating score, the agent would have the feedback it needed to learn how to play feedback it needed to learn how to play feedback it needed to learn how to play better. Demis had grown since his better. Demis had grown since his better. Demis had grown since his experience with Elixir. In both cases, experience with Elixir. In both cases, experience with Elixir. In both cases, Demis had announced a maximalist Demis had announced a maximalist Demis had announced a maximalist ambition. But in the case of DeepMind, ambition. But in the case of DeepMind, ambition. But in the case of DeepMind, he had also figured out a ladder that he had also figured out a ladder that he had also figured out a ladder that led to his destination. At Elixir, he led to his destination. At Elixir, he led to his destination. At Elixir, he had plunged his company straight into had plunged his company straight into had plunged his company straight into making the most complex video game ever, making the most complex video game ever, making the most complex video game ever, and that overreach had doomed the and that overreach had doomed the and that overreach had doomed the project. At DeepMine, the ultimate goal project. At DeepMine, the ultimate goal project. At DeepMine, the ultimate goal was even grander, but Demis had let was even grander, but Demis had let was even grander, but Demis had let people tinker while he was building out people tinker while he was building out people tinker while he was building out the scientific team, not setting a the scientific team, not setting a the scientific team, not setting a demanding goal for them. And then once demanding goal for them. And then once demanding goal for them. And then once the team was assembled, Demis had shown the team was assembled, Demis had shown the team was assembled, Demis had shown exquisite judgment. And all the while, exquisite judgment. And all the while, exquisite judgment. And all the while, he's preaching his vision, his mission. he's preaching his vision, his mission. he's preaching his vision, his mission. The way Demisaw thinks, true general The way Demisaw thinks, true general The way Demisaw thinks, true general intelligence would make almost anything intelligence would make almost anything intelligence would make almost anything possible, surpassing the internet, the possible, surpassing the internet, the possible, surpassing the internet, the printing press, or even the industrial printing press, or even the industrial printing press, or even the industrial revolution in importance. But he has revolution in importance. But he has revolution in importance. But he has that combination of grand ambition and that combination of grand ambition and that combination of grand ambition and pragmatism. His schedule captured the pragmatism. His schedule captured the pragmatism. His schedule captured the two sides of Demis' persona. When he two sides of Demis' persona. When he two sides of Demis' persona. When he stayed awake into the small hours of the stayed awake into the small hours of the stayed awake into the small hours of the morning reading and thinking and morning reading and thinking and morning reading and thinking and dreaming, he reveled in his maximalist dreaming, he reveled in his maximalist dreaming, he reveled in his maximalist ambition. So his schedule was something ambition. So his schedule was something ambition. So his schedule was something like at 10:00 p.m. till like 4 in the like at 10:00 p.m. till like 4 in the like at 10:00 p.m. till like 4 in the morning. That's when he's doing this. morning. That's when he's doing this. morning. That's when he's doing this. Then he goes to sleep for a few hours, Then he goes to sleep for a few hours, Then he goes to sleep for a few hours, then he goes to the office. When he goes then he goes to the office. When he goes then he goes to the office. When he goes to the office, says when he arrived at to the office, says when he arrived at to the office, says when he arrived at the office the next day, he focused on the office the next day, he focused on the office the next day, he focused on getting to the next rung of the ladder. getting to the next rung of the ladder. getting to the next rung of the ladder. Again, this this combination of grand Again, this this combination of grand Again, this this combination of grand ambition and pragmatism. Now, there's a ambition and pragmatism. Now, there's a ambition and pragmatism. Now, there's a bunch of other characters in the book. bunch of other characters in the book. bunch of other characters in the book. Some of the most successful and Some of the most successful and Some of the most successful and wealthiest people in the world. Elon wealthiest people in the world. Elon wealthiest people in the world. Elon Musk is in all over this book. Larry Musk is in all over this book. Larry Musk is in all over this book. Larry Paige, obviously founder of Google, buys Paige, obviously founder of Google, buys Paige, obviously founder of Google, buys Deep Mind all over this book. And so, Deep Mind all over this book. And so, Deep Mind all over this book. And so, there's a ton of interesting stories and there's a ton of interesting stories and there's a ton of interesting stories and anecdotes in the book. I just want to anecdotes in the book. I just want to anecdotes in the book. I just want to pull out one of them. Luke Nosk was the pull out one of them. Luke Nosk was the pull out one of them. Luke Nosk was the investor at Founders Fund that wanted to investor at Founders Fund that wanted to investor at Founders Fund that wanted to make the Deep Mind investment. So, Luke make the Deep Mind investment. So, Luke make the Deep Mind investment. So, Luke Nosk flew back to California on Elon's Nosk flew back to California on Elon's Nosk flew back to California on Elon's private jet accompanied by Larry Page. private jet accompanied by Larry Page. private jet accompanied by Larry Page. The conversation on the flight turned to The conversation on the flight turned to The conversation on the flight turned to AI. Demis had visited Elon at SpaceX. AI. Demis had visited Elon at SpaceX. AI. Demis had visited Elon at SpaceX. Elon and Demis had discussed which Elon and Demis had discussed which Elon and Demis had discussed which mission mattered most, space travel or mission mattered most, space travel or mission mattered most, space travel or developing AGI. Elon had declared that developing AGI. Elon had declared that developing AGI. Elon had declared that humans needed to colonize Mars in case humans needed to colonize Mars in case humans needed to colonize Mars in case disaster struck Earth. Demis had disaster struck Earth. Demis had disaster struck Earth. Demis had countered that killer AI robots might be countered that killer AI robots might be countered that killer AI robots might be one such disaster, but that the AI could one such disaster, but that the AI could one such disaster, but that the AI could obviously follow humans to Mars if it obviously follow humans to Mars if it obviously follow humans to Mars if it wanted to. The two men had forged a wanted to. The two men had forged a wanted to. The two men had forged a competitive friendship, and Elon had competitive friendship, and Elon had competitive friendship, and Elon had decided that Demis was right. Powerful decided that Demis was right. Powerful decided that Demis was right. Powerful artificial intelligence might indeed be artificial intelligence might indeed be artificial intelligence might indeed be more consequential than spaceflight. more consequential than spaceflight. more consequential than spaceflight. Elon promised to invest in Deep Mind. Elon promised to invest in Deep Mind. Elon promised to invest in Deep Mind. Now, back to this flight that Larry Now, back to this flight that Larry Now, back to this flight that Larry Pageige and Elon and Luke Nosk are on. I Pageige and Elon and Luke Nosk are on. I Pageige and Elon and Luke Nosk are on. I think this is how Larry Pageige found think this is how Larry Pageige found think this is how Larry Pageige found out about DeepMind. So, Elon says, out about DeepMind. So, Elon says, out about DeepMind. So, Elon says, "There's only one AI company that I "There's only one AI company that I "There's only one AI company that I think is going to work. I'm an investor think is going to work. I'm an investor think is going to work. I'm an investor in that company, Deep Mind." Now, let's in that company, Deep Mind." Now, let's in that company, Deep Mind." Now, let's go back to another character, Peter go back to another character, Peter go back to another character, Peter Teal. A lot of this book at this part of Teal. A lot of this book at this part of Teal. A lot of this book at this part of the story, it's just a lot of back and the story, it's just a lot of back and the story, it's just a lot of back and forth and ups and downs in raising forth and ups and downs in raising forth and ups and downs in raising money. Keep that in mind because money. Keep that in mind because money. Keep that in mind because everybody criticizes Demis for selling everybody criticizes Demis for selling everybody criticizes Demis for selling to Google. But if you were going through to Google. But if you were going through to Google. But if you were going through what he was going through, he saw as a what he was going through, he saw as a what he was going through, he saw as a giant distraction and he needed a backer giant distraction and he needed a backer giant distraction and he needed a backer with essentially unlimited resources. with essentially unlimited resources. with essentially unlimited resources. But there's just some interesting But there's just some interesting But there's just some interesting stories about how all these other stories about how all these other stories about how all these other players on the board were viewing Demis. players on the board were viewing Demis. players on the board were viewing Demis. Peter Teal barely saw the Deep Mind team Peter Teal barely saw the Deep Mind team Peter Teal barely saw the Deep Mind team and he felt instinctively suspicious of and he felt instinctively suspicious of and he felt instinctively suspicious of a fellow chess player. A man who had a fellow chess player. A man who had a fellow chess player. A man who had spent his formative years mentally spent his formative years mentally spent his formative years mentally crushing opponents should be treated crushing opponents should be treated crushing opponents should be treated with caution. Theo reckoned. And so with caution. Theo reckoned. And so with caution. Theo reckoned. And so while these ups and downs and this this while these ups and downs and this this while these ups and downs and this this painful fundraising process is going on, painful fundraising process is going on, painful fundraising process is going on, Demis gets this email from Google and Demis gets this email from Google and Demis gets this email from Google and he's willing to meet with him. This is he's willing to meet with him. This is he's willing to meet with him. This is why given his testy relationship with why given his testy relationship with why given his testy relationship with his venture capital backers, he was his venture capital backers, he was his venture capital backers, he was eager. A deep pocketed parent company eager. A deep pocketed parent company eager. A deep pocketed parent company could free him from the endless could free him from the endless could free him from the endless fundraising negotiations that cluttered fundraising negotiations that cluttered fundraising negotiations that cluttered his life and pulled his attention away his life and pulled his attention away his life and pulled his attention away from DeepMind's research. I was having from DeepMind's research. I was having from DeepMind's research. I was having these inane conversations non-stop with these inane conversations non-stop with these inane conversations non-stop with investors. I felt my brain was investors. I felt my brain was investors. I felt my brain was atrophying. I'm talking about the atrophying. I'm talking about the atrophying. I'm talking about the biggest invention ever and they keep biggest invention ever and they keep biggest invention ever and they keep coming back to where's the widget and coming back to where's the widget and coming back to where's the widget and I'm like I'm going to revolutionize all I'm like I'm going to revolutionize all I'm like I'm going to revolutionize all widgets so I can pick you a random widgets so I can pick you a random widgets so I can pick you a random widget if you want me to but you widget if you want me to but you widget if you want me to but you obviously haven't gotten the point if obviously haven't gotten the point if obviously haven't gotten the point if you're asking me this and so the you're asking me this and so the you're asking me this and so the fundraising was so bad at one point they fundraising was so bad at one point they fundraising was so bad at one point they almost ran out of money somebody would almost ran out of money somebody would almost ran out of money somebody would say you know we're going to we're in for say you know we're going to we're in for say you know we're going to we're in for x amount and then they reneg and again I x amount and then they reneg and again I x amount and then they reneg and again I think this just pushes demis back into think this just pushes demis back into think this just pushes demis back into to choosing Google deep mind's to choosing Google deep mind's to choosing Google deep mind's near-death experience forced demis to near-death experience forced demis to near-death experience forced demis to come to terms with the fact that blue come to terms with the fact that blue come to terms with the fact that blue sky research was a poor fit for venture sky research was a poor fit for venture sky research was a poor fit for venture capital. It was time to find a new capital. It was time to find a new capital. It was time to find a new backer. And so he describes why he'd backer. And so he describes why he'd backer. And so he describes why he'd sold to Google. And he describes Larry sold to Google. And he describes Larry sold to Google. And he describes Larry Page's pitch to him, which I thought was Page's pitch to him, which I thought was Page's pitch to him, which I thought was interesting. Deis' goal was to create interesting. Deis' goal was to create interesting. Deis' goal was to create AGI. So why bother with the idea of an AGI. So why bother with the idea of an AGI. So why bother with the idea of an independent DeepMind? Google was the independent DeepMind? Google was the independent DeepMind? Google was the obvious place to realize his ambition. obvious place to realize his ambition. obvious place to realize his ambition. Why don't you take advantage of what Why don't you take advantage of what Why don't you take advantage of what I've already created? Larry Page asked I've already created? Larry Page asked I've already created? Larry Page asked Deis. It was a recruitment pitch that Deis. It was a recruitment pitch that Deis. It was a recruitment pitch that he' used successfully on other startup he' used successfully on other startup he' used successfully on other startup founders. He was basically telling me, founders. He was basically telling me, founders. He was basically telling me, maybe you could build a company like maybe you could build a company like maybe you could build a company like Google, but it would take the best part Google, but it would take the best part Google, but it would take the best part of your career. If my real mission was of your career. If my real mission was of your career. If my real mission was to build AGI, then why don't I use all to build AGI, then why don't I use all to build AGI, then why don't I use all the resources that he's accumulated? I the resources that he's accumulated? I the resources that he's accumulated? I thought that was a pretty good argument. thought that was a pretty good argument. thought that was a pretty good argument. Would I be happier looking back on Would I be happier looking back on Would I be happier looking back on building a multi-billion dollar company building a multi-billion dollar company building a multi-billion dollar company or helping solve intelligence? It was an or helping solve intelligence? It was an or helping solve intelligence? It was an easy choice. When we went on that walk easy choice. When we went on that walk easy choice. When we went on that walk together, I felt he would have taken his together, I felt he would have taken his together, I felt he would have taken his own offer. The contrast with DeepMind's own offer. The contrast with DeepMind's own offer. The contrast with DeepMind's venture capital backers was obvious. venture capital backers was obvious. venture capital backers was obvious. Demis had struggled to persuade Founders Demis had struggled to persuade Founders Demis had struggled to persuade Founders Fund that DeepMind would end up changing Fund that DeepMind would end up changing Fund that DeepMind would end up changing every widget in the world. with Paige. every widget in the world. with Paige. every widget in the world. with Paige. He didn't even have to make the He didn't even have to make the He didn't even have to make the argument. I was fed up with scrambling argument. I was fed up with scrambling argument. I was fed up with scrambling around trying to justify what I knew was around trying to justify what I knew was around trying to justify what I knew was the biggest thing of all time. Demis the biggest thing of all time. Demis the biggest thing of all time. Demis recalled, "I just thought, look, I'll go recalled, "I just thought, look, I'll go recalled, "I just thought, look, I'll go to Google. I'll get a shitload of to Google. I'll get a shitload of to Google. I'll get a shitload of computers and then I'll solve computers and then I'll solve computers and then I'll solve intelligence." And so then Elon Musk intelligence." And so then Elon Musk intelligence." And so then Elon Musk hears about some negotiations between hears about some negotiations between hears about some negotiations between Demis and Google. And so then he winds Demis and Google. And so then he winds Demis and Google. And so then he winds up calling Demis because he wants to buy up calling Demis because he wants to buy up calling Demis because he wants to buy DeepMind. So Google doesn't get it. Says DeepMind. So Google doesn't get it. Says DeepMind. So Google doesn't get it. Says when Elon found that Google was about to when Elon found that Google was about to when Elon found that Google was about to buy Deep Mind, he said, "Demis shouldn't buy Deep Mind, he said, "Demis shouldn't buy Deep Mind, he said, "Demis shouldn't lose control of his company. We can't lose control of his company. We can't lose control of his company. We can't have a giant corporation control AGI. have a giant corporation control AGI. have a giant corporation control AGI. This is not a good thing for humanity. This is not a good thing for humanity. This is not a good thing for humanity. And so then Elon calls Demis and says, And so then Elon calls Demis and says, And so then Elon calls Demis and says, "How about if Tesla acquires you?" Demis "How about if Tesla acquires you?" Demis "How about if Tesla acquires you?" Demis pointed out that Tesla was not pointed out that Tesla was not pointed out that Tesla was not generating enough cash to support generating enough cash to support generating enough cash to support DeepMind's research. Okay, how about if DeepMind's research. Okay, how about if DeepMind's research. Okay, how about if SpaceX acquires you? Deus points out SpaceX acquires you? Deus points out SpaceX acquires you? Deus points out that SpaceX didn't have the computer that SpaceX didn't have the computer that SpaceX didn't have the computer power that Deep Mind was going to need. power that Deep Mind was going to need. power that Deep Mind was going to need. And so for the people that follow tech, And so for the people that follow tech, And so for the people that follow tech, all these characters keep popping up in all these characters keep popping up in all these characters keep popping up in the story. You have Elon, you have Larry the story. You have Elon, you have Larry the story. You have Elon, you have Larry Page, Mark Zuckerberg pops up for a Page, Mark Zuckerberg pops up for a Page, Mark Zuckerberg pops up for a little bit. A few years from where we little bit. A few years from where we little bit. A few years from where we are in the story, Sam Alman pops up. But are in the story, Sam Alman pops up. But are in the story, Sam Alman pops up. But in January 2014, Deus goes ahead with in January 2014, Deus goes ahead with in January 2014, Deus goes ahead with Google. And this is something he's never Google. And this is something he's never Google. And this is something he's never regretted. Google bought DeepMind for regretted. Google bought DeepMind for regretted. Google bought DeepMind for $650 million. Demis netted $136 million. $650 million. Demis netted $136 million. $650 million. Demis netted $136 million. Not long after the Google acquisition, Not long after the Google acquisition, Not long after the Google acquisition, DeepMind was paying $260 million in DeepMind was paying $260 million in DeepMind was paying $260 million in staff costs annually, six times more staff costs annually, six times more staff costs annually, six times more than its total spending during its first than its total spending during its first than its total spending during its first three years of existence. From Demis' three years of existence. From Demis' three years of existence. From Demis' perspective, the advantages of the sale perspective, the advantages of the sale perspective, the advantages of the sale were overwhelming. And so in the were overwhelming. And so in the were overwhelming. And so in the documentary, The Thinking Game, he talks documentary, The Thinking Game, he talks documentary, The Thinking Game, he talks about this. He says, "Our investors about this. He says, "Our investors about this. He says, "Our investors didn't want to sell, but we decided this didn't want to sell, but we decided this didn't want to sell, but we decided this was the best thing for the mission. We was the best thing for the mission. We was the best thing for the mission. We were underelling in terms of value were underelling in terms of value were underelling in terms of value before it matured. and you could have before it matured. and you could have before it matured. and you could have sold Deep Mind for more money in the sold Deep Mind for more money in the sold Deep Mind for more money in the future. The reason is because there's no future. The reason is because there's no future. The reason is because there's no time to waste. There are so many things time to waste. There are so many things time to waste. There are so many things that have to be done while I'm still that have to be done while I'm still that have to be done while I'm still alive and my brain is still in gear. And alive and my brain is still in gear. And alive and my brain is still in gear. And then he has a very compelling argument then he has a very compelling argument then he has a very compelling argument for this. How many billions would you for this. How many billions would you for this. How many billions would you trade for another 5 years of life to do trade for another 5 years of life to do trade for another 5 years of life to do what you set out to do? And so one of what you set out to do? And so one of what you set out to do? And so one of the things that they're working on is the things that they're working on is the things that they're working on is they want to build Alpha Go. They want they want to build Alpha Go. They want they want to build Alpha Go. They want to build a system that would defeat a to build a system that would defeat a to build a system that would defeat a world champion at Go. This exchange world champion at Go. This exchange world champion at Go. This exchange between Demis and Sergey Brin, one of between Demis and Sergey Brin, one of between Demis and Sergey Brin, one of the co-founders, Google, says a lot the co-founders, Google, says a lot the co-founders, Google, says a lot about Demis' ambition. Demis told Sergey about Demis' ambition. Demis told Sergey about Demis' ambition. Demis told Sergey that he wanted to build a computer that that he wanted to build a computer that that he wanted to build a computer that would defeat the world champion at Go. would defeat the world champion at Go. would defeat the world champion at Go. Brinn seemed incredulous. Wouldn't that Brinn seemed incredulous. Wouldn't that Brinn seemed incredulous. Wouldn't that be impossible? Great, Demis thought to be impossible? Great, Demis thought to be impossible? Great, Demis thought to himself. If he thinks it's impossible, himself. If he thinks it's impossible, himself. If he thinks it's impossible, it should be pretty impressive if we do it should be pretty impressive if we do it should be pretty impressive if we do it. Now, there is a lot of detail in the it. Now, there is a lot of detail in the it. Now, there is a lot of detail in the book and in the documentary about how book and in the documentary about how book and in the documentary about how they do this, but what jumped out to me they do this, but what jumped out to me they do this, but what jumped out to me is one of the most interesting is one of the most interesting is one of the most interesting reoccurring themes in the book was this reoccurring themes in the book was this reoccurring themes in the book was this idea of using AI to come up with ideas idea of using AI to come up with ideas idea of using AI to come up with ideas or strategies or moves that aren't or strategies or moves that aren't or strategies or moves that aren't humanlike. And this progresses to the humanlike. And this progresses to the humanlike. And this progresses to the point where it's like they aren't even point where it's like they aren't even point where it's like they aren't even built on what humans have done in the built on what humans have done in the built on what humans have done in the past. A lot of my highlights center past. A lot of my highlights center past. A lot of my highlights center around this. I think this idea is around this. I think this idea is around this. I think this idea is fascinating. And so, at the beginning, fascinating. And so, at the beginning, fascinating. And so, at the beginning, it says if you pattern match what humans it says if you pattern match what humans it says if you pattern match what humans do, it's not going to take you all the do, it's not going to take you all the do, it's not going to take you all the way to beating the top human. The system way to beating the top human. The system way to beating the top human. The system needs to discover new moves which aren't needs to discover new moves which aren't needs to discover new moves which aren't humanlike. We need to build a machine humanlike. We need to build a machine humanlike. We need to build a machine that would search the infinity of that would search the infinity of that would search the infinity of permutations in Go and come up with permutations in Go and come up with permutations in Go and come up with entirely novel strategies. The early entirely novel strategies. The early entirely novel strategies. The early version of our Go system played as a version of our Go system played as a version of our Go system played as a human would. It rediscovered certain human would. It rediscovered certain human would. It rediscovered certain strategies that humans had learned over strategies that humans had learned over strategies that humans had learned over millennia. Then it discovered that millennia. Then it discovered that millennia. Then it discovered that certain timehonored human strategies can certain timehonored human strategies can certain timehonored human strategies can actually be counteracted. So, it actually be counteracted. So, it actually be counteracted. So, it discarded them. As the system became discarded them. As the system became discarded them. As the system became stronger, it played like nothing we've stronger, it played like nothing we've stronger, it played like nothing we've ever seen. It came up with a style that ever seen. It came up with a style that ever seen. It came up with a style that was completely alien. There's so many was completely alien. There's so many was completely alien. There's so many examples in the book about this I think examples in the book about this I think examples in the book about this I think are very very fascinating. So it goes are very very fascinating. So it goes are very very fascinating. So it goes back to now we're a couple years into back to now we're a couple years into back to now we're a couple years into this and everything with Google was this and everything with Google was this and everything with Google was going well. Google had liberated him going well. Google had liberated him going well. Google had liberated him from the fundraising hamster wheel. from the fundraising hamster wheel. from the fundraising hamster wheel. Google allowed him to retain DeepMind's Google allowed him to retain DeepMind's Google allowed him to retain DeepMind's independent culture in London. Google independent culture in London. Google independent culture in London. Google had even granted his followers had even granted his followers had even granted his followers privileged status. People that worked at privileged status. People that worked at privileged status. People that worked at DeepMind could get into any Google DeepMind could get into any Google DeepMind could get into any Google office globally, but people that worked office globally, but people that worked office globally, but people that worked at Google were barred from DeepMind's at Google were barred from DeepMind's at Google were barred from DeepMind's premises. In some weeks, a single premises. In some weeks, a single premises. In some weeks, a single research team at DeepMine might gobble research team at DeepMine might gobble research team at DeepMine might gobble up more computational resources than up more computational resources than up more computational resources than Google's worldwide Gmail network, which Google's worldwide Gmail network, which Google's worldwide Gmail network, which had 900 million users. And so Elon and had 900 million users. And so Elon and had 900 million users. And so Elon and others see what's going on. And this is others see what's going on. And this is others see what's going on. And this is going to lead to the founding of OpenAI going to lead to the founding of OpenAI going to lead to the founding of OpenAI as a counter to DeepMind and Google. as a counter to DeepMind and Google. as a counter to DeepMind and Google. Sometime in early 2015, Elon and Demis Sometime in early 2015, Elon and Demis Sometime in early 2015, Elon and Demis had lunch. Over lunch, Elon kept up his had lunch. Over lunch, Elon kept up his had lunch. Over lunch, Elon kept up his griping, effectively accusing DeepMind griping, effectively accusing DeepMind griping, effectively accusing DeepMind and Google of irresponsibility. A month and Google of irresponsibility. A month and Google of irresponsibility. A month after their encounter, Elon received an after their encounter, Elon received an after their encounter, Elon received an email from Sam Alman. The email he wrote email from Sam Alman. The email he wrote email from Sam Alman. The email he wrote to Elon said, "I've been thinking a lot to Elon said, "I've been thinking a lot to Elon said, "I've been thinking a lot about whether it's possible to stop about whether it's possible to stop about whether it's possible to stop humanity from developing AI. I think the humanity from developing AI. I think the humanity from developing AI. I think the answer is almost definitely not. If it's answer is almost definitely not. If it's answer is almost definitely not. If it's going to happen anyway, it seems like it going to happen anyway, it seems like it going to happen anyway, it seems like it would be good for someone other than would be good for someone other than would be good for someone other than Google to do it first." And you can see Google to do it first." And you can see Google to do it first." And you can see this as people begin to understand more this as people begin to understand more this as people begin to understand more and more the importance of developing and more the importance of developing and more the importance of developing AGI. You have all these other people AGI. You have all these other people AGI. You have all these other people that jump into this competition. When a that jump into this competition. When a that jump into this competition. When a technology of infinite potential comes technology of infinite potential comes technology of infinite potential comes into view, there will never be a quiet into view, there will never be a quiet into view, there will never be a quiet consensus about who should control it. consensus about who should control it. consensus about who should control it. With so much at stake, power, money, With so much at stake, power, money, With so much at stake, power, money, scientific glory, the future of scientific glory, the future of scientific glory, the future of humanity, conflict is unavoidable. And humanity, conflict is unavoidable. And humanity, conflict is unavoidable. And so Demis is practical. He knows the so Demis is practical. He knows the so Demis is practical. He knows the people he's dealing with. He knows these people he's dealing with. He knows these people he's dealing with. He knows these kind of people are going to want to kind of people are going to want to kind of people are going to want to start their own thing. Elon and Sam start their own thing. Elon and Sam start their own thing. Elon and Sam Alman team up to launch OpenAI, a not Alman team up to launch OpenAI, a not Alman team up to launch OpenAI, a not for-p profofit lab explicitly aimed at for-p profofit lab explicitly aimed at for-p profofit lab explicitly aimed at breaking the Google Deep Mind AGI breaking the Google Deep Mind AGI breaking the Google Deep Mind AGI monopoly. Deis said, "If you have monopoly. Deis said, "If you have monopoly. Deis said, "If you have powerful people who are able to powerful people who are able to powerful people who are able to understand the impact of the technology, understand the impact of the technology, understand the impact of the technology, they're not just going to sit on the they're not just going to sit on the they're not just going to sit on the sidelines. They won't be content to just sidelines. They won't be content to just sidelines. They won't be content to just be your adviserss." So obviously what be your adviserss." So obviously what be your adviserss." So obviously what was going on was our supposed advisers was going on was our supposed advisers was going on was our supposed advisers were really our rivals. And so then when were really our rivals. And so then when were really our rivals. And so then when I go back to this idea of using AI to I go back to this idea of using AI to I go back to this idea of using AI to just generate this alien like nonhuman just generate this alien like nonhuman just generate this alien like nonhuman ideas, they continue to improve Alph Go. ideas, they continue to improve Alph Go. ideas, they continue to improve Alph Go. Now they have this idea called Alph Go Now they have this idea called Alph Go Now they have this idea called Alph Go Zero. The idea is that rather than Zero. The idea is that rather than Zero. The idea is that rather than training the agent initially in expert training the agent initially in expert training the agent initially in expert human games, it would have to learn human games, it would have to learn human games, it would have to learn exclusively by playing against itself. exclusively by playing against itself. exclusively by playing against itself. By experimenting with random moves and By experimenting with random moves and By experimenting with random moves and discovering which ones generated a discovering which ones generated a discovering which ones generated a reward signal, learning only from reward signal, learning only from reward signal, learning only from self-play, the system outclassed its self-play, the system outclassed its self-play, the system outclassed its predecessor by a mile. By unshackling predecessor by a mile. By unshackling predecessor by a mile. By unshackling itself from human wisdom, the model had itself from human wisdom, the model had itself from human wisdom, the model had discovered strategies unknown to mortal discovered strategies unknown to mortal discovered strategies unknown to mortal players, arriving at a new understanding players, arriving at a new understanding players, arriving at a new understanding of Go's mysteries. Humans had not of Go's mysteries. Humans had not of Go's mysteries. Humans had not understood how little they had understood how little they had understood how little they had understood. AI stood in judgment over understood. AI stood in judgment over understood. AI stood in judgment over centuries of human wisdom, vindicating centuries of human wisdom, vindicating centuries of human wisdom, vindicating some verdicts and tossing out others. some verdicts and tossing out others. some verdicts and tossing out others. And then some of my favorite parts of And then some of my favorite parts of And then some of my favorite parts of the book is just you can just tell the the book is just you can just tell the the book is just you can just tell the that he believes that this is like his that he believes that this is like his that he believes that this is like his fate. This is his destiny. There's fate. This is his destiny. There's fate. This is his destiny. There's actually an interesting before I read actually an interesting before I read actually an interesting before I read this this excerpt from Deasty which I I this this excerpt from Deasty which I I this this excerpt from Deasty which I I found fascinating. There was an found fascinating. There was an found fascinating. There was an interesting you know few sentences from interesting you know few sentences from interesting you know few sentences from Peter Teal and he he's talking about Peter Teal and he he's talking about Peter Teal and he he's talking about Demis. He says geniuses are seldom Demis. He says geniuses are seldom Demis. He says geniuses are seldom brilliant in a general way. They tend to brilliant in a general way. They tend to brilliant in a general way. They tend to be brilliantly suited to a particular be brilliantly suited to a particular be brilliantly suited to a particular mission. My friend Daniel who's the mission. My friend Daniel who's the mission. My friend Daniel who's the founder of Spotify, he calls this founder of Spotify, he calls this founder of Spotify, he calls this founder problem fit. I think it's a founder problem fit. I think it's a founder problem fit. I think it's a really interesting idea. Let's go back really interesting idea. Let's go back really interesting idea. Let's go back to this idea that Dennis, you could just to this idea that Dennis, you could just to this idea that Dennis, you could just tell he believes this is fate. This is tell he believes this is fate. This is tell he believes this is fate. This is destiny. He's got a beautiful way of destiny. He's got a beautiful way of destiny. He's got a beautiful way of explaining himself. The way AI has explaining himself. The way AI has explaining himself. The way AI has developed is a bit like the industrial developed is a bit like the industrial developed is a bit like the industrial revolution. It developed in a certain revolution. It developed in a certain revolution. It developed in a certain way, but that was kind of lucky. Suppose way, but that was kind of lucky. Suppose way, but that was kind of lucky. Suppose at the start of the industrial at the start of the industrial at the start of the industrial revolution, we had found out about revolution, we had found out about revolution, we had found out about energy and engines. But then imagine energy and engines. But then imagine energy and engines. But then imagine that there were no coal or oil in the that there were no coal or oil in the that there were no coal or oil in the ground. After all, there didn't have to ground. After all, there didn't have to ground. After all, there didn't have to be dead dinosaurs and ancient trees just be dead dinosaurs and ancient trees just be dead dinosaurs and ancient trees just waiting there for 60 million years ready waiting there for 60 million years ready waiting there for 60 million years ready to be dug out. It's kind of unreasonable to be dug out. It's kind of unreasonable to be dug out. It's kind of unreasonable if you think about it. Why wouldn't they if you think about it. Why wouldn't they if you think about it. Why wouldn't they just decay in the ground and become just decay in the ground and become just decay in the ground and become useless? Quite convenient that they useless? Quite convenient that they useless? Quite convenient that they didn't. And maybe that speaks to another didn't. And maybe that speaks to another didn't. And maybe that speaks to another conversation we could have about what's conversation we could have about what's conversation we could have about what's really going on here. Why would we have really going on here. Why would we have really going on here. Why would we have this coincidence? The analogy here is this coincidence? The analogy here is this coincidence? The analogy here is the internet has been for AI what coal the internet has been for AI what coal the internet has been for AI what coal and oil were for the industrial and oil were for the industrial and oil were for the industrial revolution. You could just literally revolution. You could just literally revolution. You could just literally drill a hole in the ground and get black drill a hole in the ground and get black drill a hole in the ground and get black gold. Today we can just download all of gold. Today we can just download all of gold. Today we can just download all of the internet. Neither of these resources the internet. Neither of these resources the internet. Neither of these resources had to be there. The dead dinosaurs are had to be there. The dead dinosaurs are had to be there. The dead dinosaurs are the internet. Humanity built the the internet. Humanity built the the internet. Humanity built the internet for a different purpose. And internet for a different purpose. And internet for a different purpose. And kind of amazingly, we woke up one day kind of amazingly, we woke up one day kind of amazingly, we woke up one day and realized that we've got the and realized that we've got the and realized that we've got the equivalent of oil. And so you and I have equivalent of oil. And so you and I have equivalent of oil. And so you and I have talked about that Demis is fiercely talked about that Demis is fiercely talked about that Demis is fiercely independent. He's this outlier doing independent. He's this outlier doing independent. He's this outlier doing things his own way. And at certain times things his own way. And at certain times things his own way. And at certain times that could be a strength and at certain that could be a strength and at certain that could be a strength and at certain times it could be a weakness. At this times it could be a weakness. At this times it could be a weakness. At this point in the story, Open AI gets ahead point in the story, Open AI gets ahead point in the story, Open AI gets ahead of Deep Mind even though it was founded of Deep Mind even though it was founded of Deep Mind even though it was founded much later. And the book goes into much later. And the book goes into much later. And the book goes into detail about the two different paths detail about the two different paths detail about the two different paths that they're taking at the moment. But I that they're taking at the moment. But I that they're taking at the moment. But I think the author describes how think the author describes how think the author describes how understanding Demis' personality and his understanding Demis' personality and his understanding Demis' personality and his life history could have accounted for life history could have accounted for life history could have accounted for him to make this mistake. And so it says him to make this mistake. And so it says him to make this mistake. And so it says at some point in this period, Deep Mind at some point in this period, Deep Mind at some point in this period, Deep Mind should have pivoted to language models should have pivoted to language models should have pivoted to language models just as OpenAI did. But DeepMind was too just as OpenAI did. But DeepMind was too just as OpenAI did. But DeepMind was too excited by its own research. It was excited by its own research. It was excited by its own research. It was accustomed to being the world's top AI accustomed to being the world's top AI accustomed to being the world's top AI lab. It could scarcely imagine that a lab. It could scarcely imagine that a lab. It could scarcely imagine that a copycat outfit might overtake it. copycat outfit might overtake it. copycat outfit might overtake it. Besides, Demis rebelled against the Besides, Demis rebelled against the Besides, Demis rebelled against the prospect of following OpenAI's example. prospect of following OpenAI's example. prospect of following OpenAI's example. All of his life, he had beaten his own All of his life, he had beaten his own All of his life, he had beaten his own path. His obsessive childhood chess, his path. His obsessive childhood chess, his path. His obsessive childhood chess, his underage moonlighting for bullfrog, his underage moonlighting for bullfrog, his underage moonlighting for bullfrog, his precocious impatience with the AI precocious impatience with the AI precocious impatience with the AI skeptical consensus at Cambridge, his skeptical consensus at Cambridge, his skeptical consensus at Cambridge, his unbritish appetite for entrepreneurship, unbritish appetite for entrepreneurship, unbritish appetite for entrepreneurship, his improbable leap from game design to his improbable leap from game design to his improbable leap from game design to neuroscience. Demis was far more neuroscience. Demis was far more neuroscience. Demis was far more original and far more of a contrarian original and far more of a contrarian original and far more of a contrarian than most of the self-identified than most of the self-identified than most of the self-identified contrarians of Silicon Valley. And then contrarians of Silicon Valley. And then contrarians of Silicon Valley. And then one of my favorite maxims is that one of my favorite maxims is that one of my favorite maxims is that actions express priority. We see what's actions express priority. We see what's actions express priority. We see what's important to Demis by looking at his important to Demis by looking at his important to Demis by looking at his actions. Since he was in college, he was actions. Since he was in college, he was actions. Since he was in college, he was obsessed with this idea of trying to obsessed with this idea of trying to obsessed with this idea of trying to solve protein folding. Again, this is solve protein folding. Again, this is solve protein folding. Again, this is what he's going to win the Nobel Prize what he's going to win the Nobel Prize what he's going to win the Nobel Prize for. And at this point in the story, he for. And at this point in the story, he for. And at this point in the story, he thinks that AI has progressed thinks that AI has progressed thinks that AI has progressed sufficiently to solve this problem for sufficiently to solve this problem for sufficiently to solve this problem for the first time in human history. And it the first time in human history. And it the first time in human history. And it talks about why this is so important. talks about why this is so important. talks about why this is so important. Proteins are the building blocks of Proteins are the building blocks of Proteins are the building blocks of life. They provide the structure and life. They provide the structure and life. They provide the structure and also the function of organs and muscles, also the function of organs and muscles, also the function of organs and muscles, hormones, and hair, blood, and brain hormones, and hair, blood, and brain hormones, and hair, blood, and brain cells. The idea of solving protein cells. The idea of solving protein cells. The idea of solving protein folding or predicting the complex shapes folding or predicting the complex shapes folding or predicting the complex shapes that proteins assume was both that proteins assume was both that proteins assume was both fascinating in its own right and almost fascinating in its own right and almost fascinating in its own right and almost certain to unlock medical advances. certain to unlock medical advances. certain to unlock medical advances. Knowing the structure of proteins would Knowing the structure of proteins would Knowing the structure of proteins would help researchers to come up with drug help researchers to come up with drug help researchers to come up with drug molecules that could bind to their molecules that could bind to their molecules that could bind to their surfaces. Knowing how those structures surfaces. Knowing how those structures surfaces. Knowing how those structures formed might unlock cures for formed might unlock cures for formed might unlock cures for Parkinson's or Alzheimer's since both Parkinson's or Alzheimer's since both Parkinson's or Alzheimer's since both diseases were thought to be linked to diseases were thought to be linked to diseases were thought to be linked to incorrectly folded proteins. And when incorrectly folded proteins. And when incorrectly folded proteins. And when they wind up solving this, they make the they wind up solving this, they make the they wind up solving this, they make the technology and all their research free technology and all their research free technology and all their research free to the world. And when Deep Mind's to the world. And when Deep Mind's to the world. And when Deep Mind's project was completed, the company project was completed, the company project was completed, the company gifted its results to science, allowing gifted its results to science, allowing gifted its results to science, allowing researchers all over the world to make researchers all over the world to make researchers all over the world to make free use of its discovery. And then one free use of its discovery. And then one free use of its discovery. And then one thing that Demis has in common with most thing that Demis has in common with most thing that Demis has in common with most of history's greatest entrepreneurs is of history's greatest entrepreneurs is of history's greatest entrepreneurs is like when you do something great, you like when you do something great, you like when you do something great, you don't sleep on the wind. You don't rest don't sleep on the wind. You don't rest don't sleep on the wind. You don't rest on the laurels. You just go and do on the laurels. You just go and do on the laurels. You just go and do something else. It says when Demis something else. It says when Demis something else. It says when Demis solves something big, he doesn't pause solves something big, he doesn't pause solves something big, he doesn't pause to spend much time savoring the to spend much time savoring the to spend much time savoring the achievement. And so Demis talks about achievement. And so Demis talks about achievement. And so Demis talks about the fact that he's unreasonable, that the fact that he's unreasonable, that the fact that he's unreasonable, that he's always pushing for more. There's he's always pushing for more. There's he's always pushing for more. There's people inside the company actually talk people inside the company actually talk people inside the company actually talk about the fact that he's never about the fact that he's never about the fact that he's never satisfied. He always wants more. They satisfied. He always wants more. They satisfied. He always wants more. They have this great line, this great line have this great line, this great line have this great line, this great line about they call demisdriven development. about they call demisdriven development. about they call demisdriven development. At DeepMind, we have something called At DeepMind, we have something called At DeepMind, we have something called demisdriven development. If a review demisdriven development. If a review demisdriven development. If a review meeting with Demis has been scheduled meeting with Demis has been scheduled meeting with Demis has been scheduled for Tuesday, you were urged to complete for Tuesday, you were urged to complete for Tuesday, you were urged to complete the next round of upgrades by Monday. No the next round of upgrades by Monday. No the next round of upgrades by Monday. No matter how many upgrades arrive, Demis matter how many upgrades arrive, Demis matter how many upgrades arrive, Demis wants more of them. And so something wants more of them. And so something wants more of them. And so something that Deus would repeat way a decade more that Deus would repeat way a decade more that Deus would repeat way a decade more than a decade before he actually had than a decade before he actually had than a decade before he actually had proof of this is the fact that he really proof of this is the fact that he really proof of this is the fact that he really believed that AI could offer scientific believed that AI could offer scientific believed that AI could offer scientific miracles and he talks about the fact miracles and he talks about the fact miracles and he talks about the fact that belief comes before ability. He that belief comes before ability. He that belief comes before ability. He says you definitely can't crack a hard says you definitely can't crack a hard says you definitely can't crack a hard problem if the person leading the team problem if the person leading the team problem if the person leading the team thinks it's not possible. And so one thinks it's not possible. And so one thinks it's not possible. And so one example of what the miracles that AI example of what the miracles that AI example of what the miracles that AI could offer is what they did with could offer is what they did with could offer is what they did with Alphaold. Hundreds of academic Alphaold. Hundreds of academic Alphaold. Hundreds of academic scientists had spent decades on protein scientists had spent decades on protein scientists had spent decades on protein folding. How was it that the deep minds folding. How was it that the deep minds folding. How was it that the deep minds team numbering perhaps 20 at its peak team numbering perhaps 20 at its peak team numbering perhaps 20 at its peak had defeated all of them? And so then had defeated all of them? And so then had defeated all of them? And so then the book gets into the invention of the book gets into the invention of the book gets into the invention of chatbt and this is where Demis realizes chatbt and this is where Demis realizes chatbt and this is where Demis realizes he's in a fight for his life. This is he's in a fight for his life. This is he's in a fight for his life. This is war. Says the night before Chat GPT's war. Says the night before Chat GPT's war. Says the night before Chat GPT's release, OpenAI's team placed bets on release, OpenAI's team placed bets on release, OpenAI's team placed bets on how many people might try the tool by how many people might try the tool by how many people might try the tool by the end of the weekend. Some guessed a the end of the weekend. Some guessed a the end of the weekend. Some guessed a few thousand, others guessed tens of few thousand, others guessed tens of few thousand, others guessed tens of thousands. To be safe, the company thousands. To be safe, the company thousands. To be safe, the company readied enough server capacity for readied enough server capacity for readied enough server capacity for 100,000 users. Within 5 days, they 100,000 users. Within 5 days, they 100,000 users. Within 5 days, they collected a million users. Within two collected a million users. Within two collected a million users. Within two months, it had amassed an astonishing months, it had amassed an astonishing months, it had amassed an astonishing hundred million, making it the fastest hundred million, making it the fastest hundred million, making it the fastest growing consumer application ever. growing consumer application ever. growing consumer application ever. This is Demis' response. And again, he This is Demis' response. And again, he This is Demis' response. And again, he is path the way he was described in the is path the way he was described in the is path the way he was described in the book by somebody else is pathologically book by somebody else is pathologically book by somebody else is pathologically competitive. At the end of April 2023, I competitive. At the end of April 2023, I competitive. At the end of April 2023, I visited Demis and asked how he was visited Demis and asked how he was visited Demis and asked how he was feeling. This is wartime, he answered. feeling. This is wartime, he answered. feeling. This is wartime, he answered. Open A and Microsoft have literally Open A and Microsoft have literally Open A and Microsoft have literally parked the tanks on the lawn. And so parked the tanks on the lawn. And so parked the tanks on the lawn. And so Deus also spends time thinking about the Deus also spends time thinking about the Deus also spends time thinking about the motivations of the people that he's motivations of the people that he's motivations of the people that he's competing with. And I think this is competing with. And I think this is competing with. And I think this is really important. I think Steve Jobs put really important. I think Steve Jobs put really important. I think Steve Jobs put it best. Steve said, "The older I get, it best. Steve said, "The older I get, it best. Steve said, "The older I get, the more I'm convinced that motives make the more I'm convinced that motives make the more I'm convinced that motives make so much difference." Steve would use HP so much difference." Steve would use HP so much difference." Steve would use HP as his northstar example. That their as his northstar example. That their as his northstar example. That their primary goal back when the founders were primary goal back when the founders were primary goal back when the founders were running it, obviously that their primary running it, obviously that their primary running it, obviously that their primary goal was to make great products, not be goal was to make great products, not be goal was to make great products, not be the biggest or the richest. And that the biggest or the richest. And that the biggest or the richest. And that distinction to jobs wasn't cosmetic. It distinction to jobs wasn't cosmetic. It distinction to jobs wasn't cosmetic. It was foundational. was foundational. was foundational. And so Demis is talking about Sam Alman. And so Demis is talking about Sam Alman. And so Demis is talking about Sam Alman. And it says, "Demis recalled what Paul And it says, "Demis recalled what Paul And it says, "Demis recalled what Paul Graham wrote. Paul Graham was one of Graham wrote. Paul Graham was one of Graham wrote. Paul Graham was one of Alman's closest professional mentors. Alman's closest professional mentors. Alman's closest professional mentors. And Paul wrote, "Sam is extremely good And Paul wrote, "Sam is extremely good And Paul wrote, "Sam is extremely good at becoming powerful. You could at becoming powerful. You could at becoming powerful. You could parachute him into an island full of parachute him into an island full of parachute him into an island full of cannibals and come back in 5 years and cannibals and come back in 5 years and cannibals and come back in 5 years and he'd be the king." Demis said, "I think he'd be the king." Demis said, "I think he'd be the king." Demis said, "I think there's a question for anyone trying to there's a question for anyone trying to there's a question for anyone trying to build a GI. What are your reasons for build a GI. What are your reasons for build a GI. What are your reasons for building it? My reasons are scientific. building it? My reasons are scientific. building it? My reasons are scientific. Some are definitely building it for Some are definitely building it for Some are definitely building it for other purposes." Deus was not just other purposes." Deus was not just other purposes." Deus was not just furious. He was ferociously competitive. furious. He was ferociously competitive. furious. He was ferociously competitive. And so this is the response to OpenAI And so this is the response to OpenAI And so this is the response to OpenAI and Chat GPT that they do. Larry Page and Chat GPT that they do. Larry Page and Chat GPT that they do. Larry Page insisted that Google should do insisted that Google should do insisted that Google should do everything conceivable to catch up, everything conceivable to catch up, everything conceivable to catch up, otherwise it would be nowhere. Demis set otherwise it would be nowhere. Demis set otherwise it would be nowhere. Demis set about preparing his troops to think about preparing his troops to think about preparing his troops to think differently. He declared that DeepMind's differently. He declared that DeepMind's differently. He declared that DeepMind's broad portfolio of blue sky research broad portfolio of blue sky research broad portfolio of blue sky research bets would have to be paired back. The bets would have to be paired back. The bets would have to be paired back. The company would stop publishing company would stop publishing company would stop publishing missionritical research that competitors missionritical research that competitors missionritical research that competitors could copy. It would focus on could copy. It would focus on could copy. It would focus on engineering and not just science. engineering and not just science. engineering and not just science. Researchers would have to make the Researchers would have to make the Researchers would have to make the mental shift from peace time to wartime. mental shift from peace time to wartime. mental shift from peace time to wartime. They also planned to merge Google Brain They also planned to merge Google Brain They also planned to merge Google Brain and Deepmind. Not even Google could and Deepmind. Not even Google could and Deepmind. Not even Google could afford the luxury of duplicate research afford the luxury of duplicate research afford the luxury of duplicate research teams. They began to work on their next teams. They began to work on their next teams. They began to work on their next generation language model which would be generation language model which would be generation language model which would be called Gemini. Google would put its called Gemini. Google would put its called Gemini. Google would put its research, computing power, and marketing research, computing power, and marketing research, computing power, and marketing muscle behind a single chatbot. And muscle behind a single chatbot. And muscle behind a single chatbot. And there's a great quote from this there's a great quote from this there's a great quote from this researcher on DeepMind about how researcher on DeepMind about how researcher on DeepMind about how valuable this time was to the company. valuable this time was to the company. valuable this time was to the company. My view is that we probably needed to be My view is that we probably needed to be My view is that we probably needed to be second for a while just to light a fire second for a while just to light a fire second for a while just to light a fire under our own ass. There's nothing like under our own ass. There's nothing like under our own ass. There's nothing like public humiliation for galvanizing public humiliation for galvanizing public humiliation for galvanizing action. And then you see Demus was just action. And then you see Demus was just action. And then you see Demus was just built for this time. His entire his built for this time. His entire his built for this time. His entire his entire life he's preparing for this. He entire life he's preparing for this. He entire life he's preparing for this. He just loves competition. Demis was in his just loves competition. Demis was in his just loves competition. Demis was in his element. The greatest tournament of his element. The greatest tournament of his element. The greatest tournament of his career was just getting started. career was just getting started. career was just getting started. Everything is competitive and Everything is competitive and Everything is competitive and competition brings this mad rush. Demis competition brings this mad rush. Demis competition brings this mad rush. Demis said, "I've always got this in the back said, "I've always got this in the back said, "I've always got this in the back of my mind." And he's just describing of my mind." And he's just describing of my mind." And he's just describing this time in his life. It's been a hard this time in his life. It's been a hard this time in his life. It's been a hard year. It's partly because everyone knows year. It's partly because everyone knows year. It's partly because everyone knows now would have known for 20 years or now would have known for 20 years or now would have known for 20 years or more that AI is the most important thing more that AI is the most important thing more that AI is the most important thing ever. Venture capitalists are funding ever. Venture capitalists are funding ever. Venture capitalists are funding anything that moves. Mid-level engineers anything that moves. Mid-level engineers anything that moves. Mid-level engineers are getting offers to do startups even are getting offers to do startups even are getting offers to do startups even though they're not suited to running a though they're not suited to running a though they're not suited to running a company. You've got the biggest titans, company. You've got the biggest titans, company. You've got the biggest titans, the most ambitious, most ferocious, most the most ambitious, most ferocious, most the most ambitious, most ferocious, most aggressive people in the world crowding aggressive people in the world crowding aggressive people in the world crowding into the sector. Deep Mind embraced a into the sector. Deep Mind embraced a into the sector. Deep Mind embraced a strict unity. All team members poured strict unity. All team members poured strict unity. All team members poured their energies into improving one single their energies into improving one single their energies into improving one single model. Next, they embraced meritocracy. model. Next, they embraced meritocracy. model. Next, they embraced meritocracy. Any team member was welcome to propose Any team member was welcome to propose Any team member was welcome to propose an improvement to the model and test it. an improvement to the model and test it. an improvement to the model and test it. If the upgrade boosted performance, it If the upgrade boosted performance, it If the upgrade boosted performance, it was added to the master code on which was added to the master code on which was added to the master code on which everyone was building. Seniority, force everyone was building. Seniority, force everyone was building. Seniority, force of personality, dazzling theoretical of personality, dazzling theoretical of personality, dazzling theoretical claims as to why something should work. claims as to why something should work. claims as to why something should work. None of that affected what went into the None of that affected what went into the None of that affected what went into the program. Only measurement mattered. And program. Only measurement mattered. And program. Only measurement mattered. And so since Demis is running all of so since Demis is running all of so since Demis is running all of Google's AI, he says, "The project is so Google's AI, he says, "The project is so Google's AI, he says, "The project is so big that I don't code anymore. I don't big that I don't code anymore. I don't big that I don't code anymore. I don't design things directly. So my skills are design things directly. So my skills are design things directly. So my skills are more about holding a hundred different more about holding a hundred different more about holding a hundred different projects in my mind." context switching projects in my mind." context switching projects in my mind." context switching between complicated things with negative between complicated things with negative between complicated things with negative minutes of time between laying out the minutes of time between laying out the minutes of time between laying out the vision picking the right intermediate vision picking the right intermediate vision picking the right intermediate targets on the way to the big goal and targets on the way to the big goal and targets on the way to the big goal and nurturing people to take things on. The nurturing people to take things on. The nurturing people to take things on. The word I'm using the most is relentless. word I'm using the most is relentless. word I'm using the most is relentless. Relentless progress, relentless Relentless progress, relentless Relentless progress, relentless shipping, a relentless production shipping, a relentless production shipping, a relentless production machine for innovation. Less than 2 machine for innovation. Less than 2 machine for innovation. Less than 2 years after the messy shotgun marriage years after the messy shotgun marriage years after the messy shotgun marriage that created Google DeepMine, Demis' that created Google DeepMine, Demis' that created Google DeepMine, Demis' team had closed the technical gap. It team had closed the technical gap. It team had closed the technical gap. It was a considerable achievement. And so was a considerable achievement. And so was a considerable achievement. And so they talk about where they see this they talk about where they see this they talk about where they see this going. Humans are forever conceiving going. Humans are forever conceiving going. Humans are forever conceiving long-term objectives and planning what long-term objectives and planning what long-term objectives and planning what they need to do next week and next month they need to do next week and next month they need to do next week and next month in order to realize them. Future AIs in order to realize them. Future AIs in order to realize them. Future AIs would behave in the same way. Task, for would behave in the same way. Task, for would behave in the same way. Task, for example, to help solve energy scarcity example, to help solve energy scarcity example, to help solve energy scarcity by inventing a superconductor. An AI by inventing a superconductor. An AI by inventing a superconductor. An AI might draw up a reading list, conduct might draw up a reading list, conduct might draw up a reading list, conduct experiments, invent novel materials, and experiments, invent novel materials, and experiments, invent novel materials, and so on, pursuing its goal over the space so on, pursuing its goal over the space so on, pursuing its goal over the space of a year or more. And it all goes back of a year or more. And it all goes back of a year or more. And it all goes back to the fact that Demis is a missionary, to the fact that Demis is a missionary, to the fact that Demis is a missionary, that he's on a mission, and that he's that he's on a mission, and that he's that he's on a mission, and that he's very clear about what his motives are. very clear about what his motives are. very clear about what his motives are. I'm doing this for knowledge and I'm doing this for knowledge and I'm doing this for knowledge and science. This is my whole life's work. I science. This is my whole life's work. I science. This is my whole life's work. I have to do what's necessary. The mission have to do what's necessary. The mission have to do what's necessary. The mission is in me. It is infused in me. You can't is in me. It is infused in me. You can't is in me. It is infused in me. You can't separate it from me. I'm definitely not separate it from me. I'm definitely not separate it from me. I'm definitely not denying it can be strong willed or denying it can be strong willed or denying it can be strong willed or difficult. I think I have to be. If I difficult. I think I have to be. If I difficult. I think I have to be. If I was like a reed in the wind, I wouldn't was like a reed in the wind, I wouldn't was like a reed in the wind, I wouldn't be doing my job as a leader. Demis' core be doing my job as a leader. Demis' core be doing my job as a leader. Demis' core theme is that money and power were not theme is that money and power were not theme is that money and power were not ends in themselves.