The Real Reason You Can't Stay Consistent (It's Not Motivation) | Mind Pump 2851

Key Takeaway

The top predictor of fitness consistency isn't willpower or discipline—it's enjoyment. Find aspects of exercise you genuinely like, whether it's the mental clarity, the social connection, or how your body feels afterward. Just like with any job or chore, you can train yourself to focus on the positives rather than the negatives. This mindset shift transforms exercise from a burden into something you actually want to do long-term.

Episode Overview

This episode explores the five key factors that keep people consistent with fitness, ranked by research and survey data. The hosts discuss how enjoyment, mental health benefits, physical health improvements, aesthetics, and community all play crucial roles in building a sustainable exercise habit—with surprising insights about which factors matter most for long-term adherence.

Full Transcript

Transcript of The Real Reason You Can't Stay Consistent (It's Not Motivation) | Mind Pump 2851 from Mind Pump Show. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

Easily the most important factor to consider when it comes to your fitness is consistency. This is the most challenging thing for almost everybody. So, here's what we did. We looked at all the surveys and data and we found the top five reasons why people are able to stay consistent with their workouts and we're going to talk about them right now. now. now. Does that include So, like would [clears throat] [clears throat] [clears throat] would this be on there? Um, habit stacking. Is that on there? It's not.

It's not. No. So, these are reasons. I'm going to pull I'm going to pull them up. Uh these are reasons why people like what are they writing down in terms of um you know what keeps them consistent? Um and what you find in in the data is um number one is and and this is obvious you guys is enjoyment. enjoyment. enjoyment. Okay. Okay. Okay. At the top of the list they enjoy doing it. it. it. Yeah. That they actually like the workout. And I think this is it's it sounds obvious uh you know once we talk about it but so many people go into working out hating it.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. With the mindset that they're going to hate it hate it hate it uh that they never get out of that mindset. And I look I don't care how good something is for you. If you hate it you trying to do that for the rest of your life like good luck. It's just not going to happen. Yeah. Long term is just a terrible strategy. strategy. strategy. And do you believe that that's something that you can change? Like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and And and And and well, I'll ask you, Adam, because uh we've talked about this before with jobs.

Uh how many jobs have you had that were not your ideal job, but you find a way way way to make yourself enjoy it? I mean, I'm I'm such I don't know if it's uh I mean, is it considered you're lying to yourself, you know? Are you uh are you just are you trying to practice uh connecting to the things that you do liking it? So maybe like because you're right uh I've had some pretty [ __ ] jobs and I can honestly say I I enjoyed doing all of them were there parts of them that I didn't like or that sucked or sure but I think the thing that I hacked into at a very young age was learning to focus on the aspects I did like.

Mhm. So, and I think some people that get started cuz I've had many clients like this that like admittedly like I hate to work out, you know, I pay you to because I know I won't come unless I pay you to to show up to this thing and I care more about losing money than I care. You know what I'm saying? That that that was like their motivation of having a personal trainer. trainer. trainer. And my goal was always to get them to try and connect the dots to the other parts of it that you do like.

Like you you can't possibly hate all of it, right? There's got to be you got to like the fact that after you work out you feel good later on in the day, right? Or you have to know that you sleep better when you're consistently doing your workouts. You got to like the fact that you can get away with eating foods that maybe you couldn't eat. You know what I'm saying? Like so I think it's just a uh a mindset shift that you have to work on to find that enjoyment.

Well, you were saying like the reason why we know this to be true is because this is what we learn how to do as trainers with our clients. This is this was number one uh as I became a better trainer. Um and the way that I would have measured my success as a trainer was literally was literally was literally can I get people to want to do this for for long term. Yeah. Okay. That was the measurement of success for a trainer by the way. It's it's not results.

It's not all that stuff is important. But it was can I get this person to develop a relationship with fitness where they're going to always want to do it. Because what I found early on was uh I could train people great. I could get them great results. The the their drop off rate was not it wasn't great. It was people would still drop off especially if they stopped working with me. Later I figured this out or I figured out that this was the problem and I was able to get so I was able to get good enough to where even if clients stopped working with me, they were able they wanted to stay consistent.

Part of that as a trainer, and this is what coaches, good coaches know, is when you're coming in to work out with me, a big part of what I'm trying to do is make this enjoyable for you. Your energy. Your energy. Your energy. Yeah. Yeah. And you had to kind of learn that as a coach is really, you do play a a big role in that in terms of like your excitement and um you know, what what they're actually drawing off of when they're coming in.

Like is it is it a fun environment? Um, and I, [clears throat] you know, of course, sometimes that would lead me into like structuring some things that they liked more, like say it's like boxing or, you know, some kind of like extracurricular activity. I'm trying to kind of weave that in. And, you know, and this is why I don't judge too much with trainers when you see kind of like, you know, some things where they're you realize they're doing that for the enjoyment of their client [clears throat] because they like uh to do those types of activities.

But, you know, I would always still stick with like, you know, the main part of the training, but now I would try and look for cues and signs of things that they picked up on where they're like, "Oh, wow. I really enjoyed that last set." So, enjoyment is number one of these five. five. five. Enjoyment is number one. And I'm going to just stay here just for to I'm going to just stay here just for a second because um I do want to say this. If if you're listening, you're like, "Well, that's silly.

I just trick myself or I just convince myself or uh our minds are geared towards the negative. We know this. This is a fact like the data shows us quite clearly. If you go about your day and one bad thing happens uh or one frustrating thing happens, you'll focus on that bad or frustrating thing and you'll forget all the small good things that happen throughout the day. And I I've actually done this experiment. I've done where where I'll I'll set a silent alarm on my phone that would go off every two hours.

And every time it would go off, I'd reflect on the previous two hours and I'd ask myself what blessings happened in the last couple hours. And what was crazy about this was first off, it was things I would have missed by the end of the day. I would have forgot. Number two, it started to train my mind to notice the good things. So by practicing this, I just became more positive. My filter started to change. So, you have to go into this thinking to yourself, uh, what are the things I can focus on that I do enjoy about this?

Maybe it's not how hard it feels. Maybe that's not the part that I enjoy. Uh, but maybe it's, uh, how much energy it provides me or some time to myself. Uh, or it's the conversations I have with the people around me or it's the reduction in pain. Um, and you can you can develop a relationship with it where over time it does become something that you enjoy. In fact, if you talk to anybody who's been working out consistently for a long period of time, you will not find a single person that says they don't enjoy it.

They all found a way. a way. a way. Well, you always talk about how like working out is such a microcosm for life. And I and I think that this applies to so many other things besides just fitness. I know I've shared on the podcast before um you know, the the cleaning and doing dishes and stuff like that was like something I did not like doing at all. And looking back now, the the the you know, five, six years of being very consistent with me being the one to do that every night, like it's become something I actually really enjoy.

But it didn't happen like overnight. It wasn't like uh I just lied to myself and said like you love doing this. It's like over time you started to connect the things that like what I did like about it and it's like you know you know what I really like? I love coming downstairs in the morning and like seeing the house just like completely immaculate. It's like I I appreciate that. I enjoy that. right? Or I enjoy coming down the stairs and knowing that that glass or that thing is available because it's been cleaned for sure.

There's no it's definitely not dirty in this thing. It's like so I just started attaching that like, you know, I love listening to like relaxing music while I do that and it's this quiet time that I can be disconnected from my phone and I can be in my head and and do kind of a gratitude p. So just I just started stacking all these things that I noticed. It was not I do not love to scrub a pan in the sink. It's not that. It's like what are all the other things?

And then over time you start to connect to that and then it becomes this thing like I actually really enjoy this. I think it's real similar to exercise and those things that you're going to like or connect to are going to be different for every person, you know, like you said, maybe it's not the workout, you know, for others. Maybe it is, maybe it's it's it's love to break a good sweat. I'm like, man, that does that at least does feel good. Like I hate getting there, but once I get there, I like it.

It's like you have to start to reframe that to get to that place. So that's number one. Um I got to think convenience is in there. No. So these were values that people found in [clears throat] fitness that kept them consistent. So like number one value was the enjoyment. Like they enjoyed it. So this is why I do it. Okay. Okay. Okay. Second value uh that came up was um it it helped their mental health and clarity. It gave them pause, peace, uh helped them with anxiety, made them feel better mentally was number two.

This one for me is a big one. This is what keeps me going um day in and day out. Uh I know when I don't work out, I'm not as sharp, not as in a good a mood. I know workouts put me in a good mood. Workouts give me more ideas for the podcast. Um I know when I used to manage gyms, one of my favorite thing to do was talk to my members who were older, who look like they've been working out for a while.

I used to love talking to them. And I would always ask them the same. I would always ask them this one question. I'd say, "Why do you keep doing this? how long you been working out and why do you keep doing this? And every single one of them said, uh, I it's the mental part. The mental part I really enjoy how it makes me feel mentally. mentally. mentally. Yeah. And I think too, the the more you mature with your training, you realize there's a different workout for a different type of a feeling or or a different type of state that you're in uh coming into that day.

Um, and I think that uh, you know, our jobs as coaches too is to really like convey that and show um, you know, that if there's pain, discomfort, they're overstressed or um, you know, you're just like you just need a good uh, almost therapy session physically, uh, there's a way to do that, you know, monitoring intensity or you know, whatever types of movements that you're um, concentrating on. It's really cool cuz you can literally use it as medicine. You know, it's funny you bring that up.

There's something that um that I do now that I never used to do. Uh in fact, at least 20 years of my lifting, I didn't do this. I do this now. Uh when I first get to the gym, no matter what I'm doing that day, I almost always go right to the treadmill and walk on the treadmill for the first 10 minutes. minutes. minutes. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. And it's not like I think I'm getting some sort of warm, but it's really kind of to to figure my my mental state.

And it's like what do I need it's like what do I need today? like is it is today going to be a little meditation. It is and it really makes me get and figure out like what is today's workout going to be? Like I I go there somewhat with an idea. But the truth is I don't make that decision until I'm on that 10 minutes of walking on the treadmill and I'm sitting there going like, you know what, I should probably do some mobility work today.

I can feel my hips as I'm can feel I can feel my hips as I'm walking right now and I haven't done some good stuff. That's what I'm gonna start off with and then maybe I'll do this or that, right? or it's just like, man, I'm feeling good today. I feel fully recovered. It's like, I'm I'm going to go get after it today. In fact, I'm going to go go lift heavy at this thing. It's like, I never used to do that. I never I in fact, I used to mock all the, you know, trainers that we used to, and I'm guilty of being this trainer at one point of, you know, put your client on the first 10 minutes of, you know what I'm saying, of the the [clears throat] elliptical or whatever before you start their workout, like really.

And really what that was is so you could shovel down some food before whatever you see. there's no like real organized real quick. Yeah. Yeah. Justified as warming up or whatever like that. It's like that's really what's going on. Um but I actually really uh do that now and enjoy that uh process. And I think it's the the point you're making right now which is you know each workout does tend to serve uh a different mindset or adaptation or a thing that I'm looking at and that's what I Well, it's the the data on um how exercise um affects mental health.

We've got really good data now. So, people have reported this for a long time that it feels good. You hear things like the runner's high. Uh, it puts me in a good mood. It gives me good ideas. We've known this for a long time. Like writer's block. What's the solution for writers block? Go out and walk. Want to run? run? run? Get you that creative space. Yeah. Improves creativity. We like we people have talked about this, but do we have data? Yes, we've got great data now on exercise and depression and anxiety.

Here's what the data shows. Exercise is actually more effective. It's more effective than talk therapy and more effective than medical interventions for depression for the for the general types of depression people report. Yeah. And for the types of anxiety that people report. In fact, if we could bottle the benefits of exercise, just the mental health benefits, forget everything else. Just if we could put the mental health benefits in a pill, it would be the the greatest selling uh pharmaceutical in the history of of mankind. That's how effective it is at improving your mental health.

uh an outlook based on the data. So, and to this to the point now where uh psych, you know, uh therapists, psychologists, psychiatrists psychologists, psychiatrists psychologists, psychiatrists [clears throat] now are starting to use it as part of their protocol. This is what they're starting to recommend. I know. I know. I know. It's so powerful. I've seen this as a trainer. I could see I see it like in real time. You have a client come in in a bad mood, they leave in a good mood. I've also seen it overtime.

I've actually had a few clients who referred to me at one point I trained a couple mental health experts or practitioners [clears throat] [clears throat] [clears throat] and they sent me some of their patients and you know you could tell that when they'd come in you could tell that they struggled with certain things. One of them was a young man uh one of them was a was an older gentleman and over the course of months the transformation their mental health was radical. One guy was so bad that when he came in, I had a small studio, so I had the flexibility to be able to do this.

We would schedule him when there weren't other trainers in the studio because it had to be no music and we had to have the lights down. He was really sensitive to stimulus. It would actually set him off with anxiety and stuff. So, we turned the lights down, no music. By the end of our I mean towards I don't remember how long it was. I trained him, it was months, so maybe 6 months, nine months. music [snorts] on, lights on, other people. Total transformation. There was no difference in his medication.

There was no difference in his therapy. It was all from extra. He told me this. He's like that nothing has really impacted me like exercise. That's just a personal example. So, when it comes to mental health, health, health, um this is it's so powerful that being seditary is a risk factor for anxiety and depression. and depression. and depression. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, it's this is how powerful it is. If you don't move, your risk of of depression, anxiety skyrocket. So, probably one of the most powerful things it does.

it does. it does. Do they So, do they factor in like obviously it's going to get you out of this like cognitive loop that you're in where you're just like continually thinking about the same thing and now you're in body more and so now you're kind of connected more to the movement aspect, but also don't you get like natural rewards chemically from Yeah. working out as well? Yeah. you get feel-good chemicals, but when you get feel when you produce feel-good chemicals from chemical stimulation or something that doesn't require work, you get a negative feedback loop, feedback loop, feedback loop, right?

right? right? So, what the what they're showing in the data is if I take a drug to produce uh these good feelings or if I do something that's like like eat something hyper palatable or if somebody watches pornography or things like that that tend to cause this dopamine, right? because there's no hard work that led to it. Uh you get the negative feedback loop. When there's work that's involved or effort that's involved with the positive reward, uh it actually compounds actually compounds actually compounds over time.

It's it's pretty remarkable. And exercise uh produces that. I mean, and again, I'll speak to myself. This is the number one reason why uh I enjoy it. There's I enjoy it for lots of different reasons, but for me it's like nothing. There's almost nothing that can that I can do that I know will have uh such a consistent consistent consistent always gets me out of a rut. Totally. Yeah. I'm just like I just need to go work out. work out. work out. I mean, I feel like uh show me a relationship that's struggling, right?

A couple that's struggling and I'll show you a relationship that lacks sex and exercise. exercise. exercise. I'm serious. I feel like those two things like are so important to like just your own mental health bigger of a factor than a lot of people think. Huge huge I mean two I mean Katrina and I we laugh and joke about this like if if if a two or three days it goes in a row of one of those two missing in the relationship. It's like there's there's a different vibe in a different there's a different vibe in the house.

the house. the house. If those Courtney has a barometer like oh it's been three days. Yes. It's just like yes. yes. yes. Yeah. It's like there is there is a different vibe and energy in the house if if we've had a couple of those days get strung together of one or both those is like you're you're set up for a fight. You know what I'm saying? Sad mood. mood. mood. Yeah. Exactly. You just know you're one of one of us is going to be in a crabby mood or both.

It's just like wild how important those two things exercising our body like that and that physical touch and connection with your partner. It's like they both I think and I think it has a lot to do with like you were saying is that you get this incredible you know endorphins and and chemical response without the the negative feedback like a like a drug would and and a lot of those people that aren't getting that are self-medicating to try and and and chase that feeling but then it has a negative feedback loop.

Yes. Yes. Yes. All right. Next up is uh physical health. And you can put in there [snorts] things like strength, lack of pain, like taking care of my body uh physically, which is different than appearance, which we'll get to. So, this isn't aesthetics. This is people saying, "I like the way it makes my body feel." Um, this one becomes There's two types of people that this becomes really profound to. One is the person, person, person, it could be a young person even, that's so seditary, they don't even know how crappy they feel.

Yeah. Then they start working out, getting stronger and they physically feel different in their bodies. Yeah. The other one which is the more common one is older population. They feel see and see this so much and then this becomes so valuable to them because you know when you're 60 you're 60 you're 60 Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. you've probably had some years of not feeling good or hurting or you've noticed some some abilities that you're now lacking. You can't necessarily run with your grandkids like you could with your kids or you can't do certain things like you used to.

Yeah. Then you start working out and you're like, "Oh my gosh, like I could go up the stairs without huffing and puffing and I'm doing things and I got energy." You know, You know, You know, it's amazing what when you're [clears throat] in a state of pain um chronic pain, like what that does to your mood and the way that you think and your outlook on everything and to to be able to resolve that uh physically, I think it just opens up this whole new potential for a lot of people.

I mean, I would argue that this is uh everybody over 40. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't mean I' I don't think I've ever met somebody met somebody met somebody majority for sure. Uh over the age of 40 who doesn't say that exercise makes me feel better and that's a big motivator for sure. The aesthetics like you said uh we'll get to that. Yeah. Is is one and attached to that but I'd say that most people over 40 I it's what keeps me going for sure. It's like the uh the aesthetic side is nice, but the uh it's like if I don't I low back pain starts bothering me, my hips start talking.

I mean, it's just I start feeling all that stuff like that. And so just making sure that I'm training consistently, keeps all of that stuff at bay. And I mean, I feel like that's everything as you get older. It is. And uh if you were to if we had to like find an actual fountain of youth, which doesn't exist, the closest we could get uh would be physical fitness. Yeah, fitness. Yeah, fitness. Yeah, it's uh it's so powerful. And I always like to paint this picture of someone who's listening.

[snorts] Uh you know, if I if I show you a 20-year-old that works out, one that doesn't, there's a difference between the two for sure. There's a difference in [snorts] the way they move, there's a difference in their abilities and and all that stuff. You give me a 60-year-old that's fit versus a six-year-old that isn't. Like your typical 60-year-old versus a six-year-old who's been working out for a long time, they're not even in the same universe. It's not even It's It's like they're two different species.

It's so different. It's radically different with their abilities, their energy, their lack of pain. This for me was a big one as a trainer cuz I uh towards the end as I trained lots of medical professionals, they would send me their patients. A lot of their patients were in that age group, the older age group. And when I would show them pain relief, it was like, uh, I'm done. I'm doing this forever for a whole new person. I I've been my back has always hurt. It's always been hurt.

It's been hurt for years. I thought I just had a bad back and I've been working out with you for two months and my back doesn't hurt anymore. what is going on here? And I'm like, well, it was just it was literally lack of strength, lack of stability, the right exercises solve your chronic back pain. And it it totally sold them. Next up is the aesthetic. Uh is that's number four. Yeah, that's just how people look. Um now, I'll say this, just interesting because that's probably the number one reason why most people show up.

show up. show up. That's right. And I think of all the ones that we're going to talk about because there's a fifth one, too. We'll get to this one's actually the least the the least effective or least important. uh because you you can only improve upon the way you look for so long and or so subjective and you tend to compare yourself to other people. So this one's really sketchy. really sketchy. really sketchy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh with where uh you could go and if and most people here's the problem with the one that that we're talking about right now.

Most people place all the value on how they look and it is not a strong enough motivator or strong enough relationship builder to keep you working out forever by itself. Well, and and I think uh we all have a form of perception drift, right? We talked about this with the the face lifts and surgeries like that. And anybody who's been working out long enough that's been chasing the aesthetic side would attest to this, which is when you first started, you probably said things like, "Oh, if I just look like this or my arms were this size or I weighed this much or I was this body fat." And then you get there and what happens?

happens? happens? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. More. More. More. Yeah. I need another inch of my body. I got this part of my body and that part of my body. And so it's this neverending, you know, goalpost that you keep you keep moving. So, uh, So, uh, So, uh, but I just remind people the reason why we think people look good when they're fit is because it's actually a signal towards health and vitality. So, it's actually a side effect. It was it's never the main effect. It was never meant to be the main effect of good health and fitness.

It was meant to be a signal that points to better health, better mobility, better vitality. Right. So last and I think this one's playing a bigger role and I've talked about this on the last couple podcasts. couple podcasts. couple podcasts. What is this? Can we guess this Justin? What what all the things? Yeah, cuz you're aesthetics. So you did cognitive stuff. cognitive stuff. cognitive stuff. Why people keep showing up to their relationships? Yeah, community. Oh, community. Of course, we should get This one's huge. I think the fitness industry missed this one.

Uh but now is starting to realize how powerful this is. Yeah. Gyms and fitness facilities can do a really good job of attracting people. They've figured out how to attract people. They suck at keeping people. This has been a problem in the fitness industry forever. How do we keep people? The gyms that keep people are the ones that have culture and community. Yeah. Real good culture. Nobody leaves. But the question is though, S, is it really in their best entrance for that? What do you mean to keep?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Not if you're charging 20 bucks a model. That's right. Well, even even at the say the 150 or higher end, like uh I bet you if you looked at um Lifetime Fitness or Equinox, uh if every member showed up, they couldn't. The fire marshall would call on them, too. Capacity. So, almost all gyms, okay, besides boutique ones that have limited spots, uh are actually designed that we want you to kind of show up, but not really. Well, we don't want to be that hardcore.

Well, what they're doing, Adam, [snorts] because I I I've been looking up I've been looking this up recently because we have trainers and coaches and I have this like I always in the back of my mind I always want to own a gym, even though it's not Don't I know you're going to get pissed off, but it's not this big money maker. No, I know eventually we all want to do I look at the data. I want to own a bar, too. And I'm I'm I'm studying the data and you know what these gyms do?

These gyms that are like you just said, these really nice gyms that charge a lot, they make a lot of money on the community stuff that's in the gym. So, you have a membership, but then people spend money on eating lunch there. Yeah. They spend money on the massage. They spend money on the extras, the community stuff. Yeah. The pool where they can hang out with the other people. So, it's community. And what's happening is Gen Z Gen Z is wanting this. And I think it's probably because of lack of connections for younger generation.

For sure. I mean, one of the biggest complaints when you talk to a younger person is who was I was just talking to someone about this. How hard it is to date and meet people. Social outlets. Very minimal. run into people. Gen Z now ranks the gym as the number one place to be social, right? right? right? It makes sense. It replaced bars. And so I and you also you uh you have a nice bias by going there. If you go to a bar Yeah. to find somebody where everyone's getting you don't know what you're getting up.

Yeah. It's it is it's a mixed bag then. You know what I'm saying? Probably someone there that's drinking. drinking. drinking. One thing you know is everyone's there to drink. to drink. to drink. Yeah. That's Yeah. And which could be for all the wrong reasons. If you're there too long, maybe some good reason, but it's like it is definitely a roll of the dice of what you and you go to the gym, everybody in there is growth minded in somewhat of an aspect, some aspect of like they want to improve themselves improve themselves improve themselves and and that's a that's a solid better group.

better group. better group. That's a solid quality to uh to find. It doesn't mean that you meet the perfect person, but it's I'd say would you not argue that one of the major attributes to having a successful marriage is having a partner who is equally focused on growth or growth minded at least, right? I mean, that's uh that's it's listen, what's the number one reason why we all like working in gyms? It was the it was the culture. Yeah, it's it's that culture. People are coming into and they're choosing to voluntarily voluntarily voluntarily self-improve.

So, I I do believe you're right. I mean, the model is going to be these high-end 150 to 250 or more. Yeah. Or more or small places. Well, and you see how they're incorporating like your peptide and your hormone therapy and and cryotherapy and like like like a lot of these like kind [clears throat] work spaces too cuz a lot of people can work remotely and and I think having [clears throat] [clears throat] [clears throat] I mean I would I would love to have the Bay Area doesn't have a good one.

They have they have one that's kind of like that but it's not that good. It's it's it's uh I think it's the it's uh I think it's the future. Um and I think it's an important focus that gyms are going to start paying attention to because the fitness industry moved away from that. It actually started that way. So gyms used to be very culture dominant. Then it slowly turned into put your headphones on, you're in your own space, do your thing, you like the equipment, cool, get in, get out, you don't talk to anybody.

And I think that's a big mistake. Fitness fanatics don't care. I don't care cuz I go and do my thing, I leave. But most people the community uh and they're finding this now in the data like this is what people want. So I think the future of gyms uh is it's already moving in that direction. Yeah. So I got a crazy study for you that's really interesting. really interesting. really interesting. First off uh do you know so they did there some studies on aging. Do you know that the easiest way to predict someone's someone's someone's uh like biolog not bi biological age and also their uh whatever their their chronological age but also how how how old their DNA is or how much their their wear and tear is.

There's a plate there's there's a way you can look at someone someone someone not just their telomeres. No no their face of all the things on someone really you could predict it if you had to just pick something to look at it would be their face their face their face like how like how stressed are they? How much how much does their body actually reveals a lot, huh? It does. It does. It does. So, they actually did this study where they said they looked at occupations and ranked them from best to worst in terms of how quickly they were aging based off their face.

their face. their face. Wild. Wild. Wild. Yes. Do you know who is the worst? Got to be things like uh surgeons or ER doctors or high stress jobs. Scientists and educators. Oh, okay. okay. okay. Scientists and educators. Yeah, I could see educator. By the way, the person who posted this is a longevity scientist. He's like, "Cool. That's my my profession. I'm the one that's I'm the worst one." Then it was professionals. Then it was managers, clerical, sales, service workers, athletes had the best age. Uh uh uh uh cuz you're you're playing your dream sport for a living and you're also just exercising.

That's interesting. That's interesting. That's interesting. And you're out of your head and whatever. whatever. whatever. That makes me wonder. I So I'd love to do Katrina's B. I told you guys off air what had happened uh the other day. So, the other day in the gym, she's still floating about it. It's been like two weeks now. weeks now. weeks now. Yeah. She's got her she's got her headphones on in the gym and um and they die, but she just leaves them on. And there's two ladies.

There's a a trainer who's training a client like next to her and Oh, yeah. And they're and they're talking about her and uh they don't know if she can hear and they're they're like, "That's uh that's Adam's wife, you know, uh with Mind Pump. You know who that is, right?" And the other, like, "Oh, yeah, yeah, I know this." And she looks over and she's like, looking at Katrina, she's like, "Figures, "Figures, "Figures, he would date some girl that's way younger than him." Oh, she loved that.

She loved that. Oh gosh, she's not. Oh, no. She's older than me. So, I I did a bigger story to set that just want to set the story straight. By the way, it's kind of like a double like there's two sides of that. There is. There's like It's an insult to me. It's like It's like saying I'm a shallow person, right? like of course he's like some shallow guy that would date like he would date some young right so she's all happy about it but I'm like reading into him going like you know it's a bit of an insult to me though right it's kind of like saying that I'm shallow or something like I don't know but um so yeah I I did a story the other day teasing her cuz uh she her her stack just came in from Vabella uh just sent her stack of all her yeah her gha and so I was sharing the stuff that she does for her her routine for her face and stuff like that because she is really good about that and she'll do her morning cream, her night cream, um, that has the GHKCU, the NAD, I think glutathione, and something else in there.

There's like an exilic acid or something you might know. I don't know what that is. Yeah, I don't know what it was. I thought you would know, but that stack. And then she's she's more consistent than I am. She sits in front of the juvite. She right after she gets out, she does How often is she doing the juvite? Every day. So, almost every night after. So, we like our routine. So she'll after she'll do math max and uh and bathe him and get him ready.

So like that. That's when she takes her shower, does her cream stuff, and then she'll sit down right in front of the the light right after that. I think she does like 10 or 15 minutes daily. So every every single night, you know, she might miss a weekend night or something like that when we're doing something. If you use JV on your face to look younger, you'll notice in a week. I I makes a big difference with Courtney, too. She does it all the time. Oh, big difference.

I mean, I'm in and out of doing it and I always notice a difference when I get right back in the routine of doing it. Like I would say within three probably three times of me I noticed it mainly in underneath her eyes. Like it definitely makes a big difference. Yeah. difference. Yeah. difference. Yeah. So I mean I think I mean Katrina is she's also to the study and to the point you're bringing. I mean probably one of the most zen people I've ever met in my life.

You know what I'm saying? Also stresses. Yeah. Oh yeah. Like I've I don't think I've ever seen her stressed out. You know she's weird. She's married to you. I can't work. I work with you. She Yeah, she does not. She does not bounces right off. I age working next year. Yeah, she Yeah, she Yeah, she I need you. I'm a little further away. Stop it. Stop it. Why does Doug keep getting younger then? I'm harder. I'm harder on the furthest. Exactly. He's the furthest away. That's what I do.

No, she definitely she definitely is. Uh, I mean, I I definitely give her a lot of credit for for checking me on a lot of that stuff like that. She's always the qu first to think of the the most optimistic way to look at every situation and and uh that between that and her skinincare and her Jew light. I think she's hacked into looking younger than me even though she's older than me. So, So, So, that's so great. That's great. Speaking of attractiveness, they did a study.

I don't know why they do studies like this sometimes, but whatever. We'll talk about it. So, they did a study on men and women and they wanted to see how much uh someone's income would affect their attractiveness for both sexes. For both sexes. Oh, interesting. So, I'm more interested in what the guys say about girls. Okay. So, they took pictures. We We all know what the other way around. around. around. So, they took pictures of women. Okay. Okay. Okay. And it was just you just see them.

And then they took pictures of women and put underneath them their salary. Interesting. Interesting. Interesting. And then they say did the same thing with men. Okay, put a picture of this. Okay, cool. This actually this is actually a cool study. I mean, I guess if you don't if you don't know what's going to happen, obviously, who do you think responds better to better to better to Well, that's obvious to it's obvious. We we know that. You talked about this the evolutionary theory, whether whatever uh that women that saw the increased salary are going to be more attracted to that guy.

And we see this all over in society. It's very obvious. Okay, so that's nuts. What I'm more interested in is did the guys that saw the girls well yeah did they care at all or and and did they actually look negatively around the higher income women? Did they become less attractive as they made more money? That would be interesting. Actually made almost no zero effect. Yeah. Well, that makes like how attractive is she and then and then boom, you see she makes more nothing. Had almost no had almost no effect on the guy.

So I would think so if I had to predict I would have predicted guys would be no effect effect effect or maybe slightly negative if it's slightly negative if it was a lot more than them because I could see that I've seen situations like that I've seen guys that are intimidated by a girl that is that makes a lot more money. Here's the question I have. I wonder if it's less about being intimidated because that could very well be the case. I'm just thinking out loud.

Or it could be more about knowing that you're less attractive to a woman. Because when they look at data, when women make more than men in and they're couples, the their the man even if he makes a lot of money, he becomes less attractive to her and the divorce rate actually goes up. So divorce rate's higher. Like they're immediately going to think less. less. less. Oh yeah. How high is the divorce rate in a sit in a relationship where the woman makes significantly more than the man?

Well, when the man doesn't work and the woman works, it's a lot higher. So, if he's the stay at home and she works, the the divorce rate goes up. Oh, yeah. Okay. So, I wonder if it's that like, oh, she might not like me as much. Maybe that's kind of factor in. Yeah. I wonder. It could also be intimidation. intimidation. intimidation. I mean, those are kind of maybe the same thing as describing what you're feeling. Yeah. I say it's kind of the same. It's kind of the same thing.

But intimidation like intimidation, insecure, how however you want, however you want to say it. But, okay. What does that say? Oh, that's not good. Read that, Doug. Yeah. Couple where the wife earns more than the husband are generally at a higher risk of divorce. Uh studies indicating that 33 to 50% more likely to divorce. Wow. Wow. Wow. Uh Doug, look up how uh uh odds increase that a woman will cheat when she's the bread winner. That's another bad one. The rate of infidelity uh when the Well, I imagine she loses a little bit of respect for him.

Respect, attractiveness, maybe whatever. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, cuz isn't that so that lack of respect is similar to contempt, isn't it? Wouldn't they be hand in hand? I think so. So, yeah. So, if you lose respect for your man, it's like having contempt. And you know, remember when we did the great uh interview with um who was a couple that are like famous for all the Oh gosh. Um the number the number one reason for infidelity or divorce was contempt. contempt. contempt. And so him not making as much would lead more was more likely to lead to contempt.

Or contempt. Or contempt. Or what does that say, Doug? Well, it actually says that women who are the primary breadwinners are least likely to cheat. cheat. cheat. Oh, really? Oh, really? Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, interesting. Too busy working too busy working. busy working. busy working. Yeah, that's interesting. Stay at home. Yeah, dad. That's probably Well, men are men are way higher. More likely, right? Way more. Uh, who's Yeah, look at the odds. It's way guys are way more. It's not that big of a difference.

I think I think I think there's a difference. difference. difference. It's way guys are way higher. Girls are more likely to confide in like another another man and like be like that. Men are more likely to cheat physically like that. that. that. Oh, like cheat emotionally. Yeah. Yeah. She's more likely to have a coworker she works that she she shares all her personal stuff with just to sleep with. sleep with. sleep with. You guys know that if a woman's best friend gets divorced, the odds of her getting divorced go up.

Did you guys know that? know that? know that? Yeah, dude. If there's a woman who has a best friend, they're both married, her best friend gets divorced, super influenced, super influenced, super influenced, her odds go up. Yeah. That she might get I would think a guys would too, though. Um Um Um because don't Okay, let let's not let's take marriage out of the question. I remember in when you're kid, right? When you were kids, I totally remember like the the homie group. You know what I'm saying?

You're all when you're all coupled up, it's all good. You're doing a couple things and then one or two guys are single and it's like you're the one guy who's still in a relationship. Oh man, you hang out with your chick again. You get all the pressure to be single. be single. be single. I used to like you when you were single. You were way more fun when you were single. Well, so so anyways, so let's go back to the study. So I feel like that's like early on stuff.

So a woman women are 1,000 times more more sensitive to a man's income when evaluating evaluating evaluating 75% more likely to divorce. S uh what if if your best friend divorces? divorces? divorces? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Holy cow. 75%. Wow. Wow. Wow. That's a big one. That's high. That's high. That's high. Social contagion is what they call it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So both sides, same story. Oh, so it is both sexes. Both sex. Both sexes. Oh wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Well, so so did you guys hear what I said though about the data?

No. No. Sorry. Say again. I was Women are a thousand times more sensitive to a man's income when evaluating his attractiveness. A thousand. thousand. thousand. A thousand. A thousand times. That's a big number. That's big. That's big. That's big. Yeah. You could be like a three and you make like a million dollars a year and now you're eight. Now the the reverse, you could flip that on its head too with the guys. We probably care a thousand times more about physical, about physical, about physical, right?

right? right? Probably. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You I I think so. think so. think so. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know about a thousand, but definitely more. Yeah. Well, a lot more, I would think. Yeah. If like you would if they did I'm sure there's studies on this where they've asked surveys of guys what's their number one thing and it's like probably attractiveness is probably top of most people's list for men. Beauty. Beauty. Beauty. Yeah. And girls probably say things like humor and like a lot of other things, but but but attractiveness is number one.

So, I bet we're probably up there with that. So, that makes sense. I know. Yeah, that makes sense. It isn't I I find the the What machine should I do in the gym to get more girls? Get good at the ATM. That's That's That's more money, dude. Go make more money, bro. bro. bro. You know, so a lot of people a lot of people hate on that, right? And there's a lot of like, oh, gold digger is a negative kind. But that is no different, okay, than if we were to go back 3,000 years and the guy who could kill deer left and right easy, like the best shot and was coming home with deer over his shoulder every single day versus the guy who showed up empty-handed or a squirrel, you know what I'm saying?

He comes, he found some nuts outside. outside. outside. Yeah. Yeah. He found some nuts and berries and a squirrel. You know what I'm saying? I guarantee those two guys walk into camp. I don't give a [ __ ] which what they look like physically. The woman are looking at the dude who's carrying that deer and she's like she's like he's hungry. He is attractive as hell. Cuz you know why? Cuz he can feed me and our child. Like that's and and nobody would hate on that. But because today that the way we show that show that show that it's just the way it is, dude.

Well, that's how we show it today though. It's no different, right? No, it's% it's% Yeah. It's just an example of that. He's he's proven that he can go out and hunt confident confident confident with the best of them. And so it's like I don't know. I think I don't know. I think people judge that too people I think people judge that too much. much. much. Imagine sex Imagine sex Imagine sex blueberries. blueberries. blueberries. I could have went and collected blueberries. blueberries. blueberries. You're going to keep those blueberries.

Sit you out to get a deer. You know what I'm saying? I'm saying? I'm saying? Squirrel. Squirrel. Squirrel. Hungry. The hell's wrong with you? Imagine that. You had to be that guy carrying the little Get out there and stab something. something. something. You're with your buddies. I can't go home, dude. Yes, bro. I killed a squirrel. No way, dude. My wife be so bad. I got I got a muskrat in the back. You can borrow. can borrow. can borrow. Here's some fish. Go with it. I know.

It's so funny. I want to hear Justin. You were You have There's a note up here about you getting called out by your boy. Oh, yeah. So, uh over the weekend I went to So, my son was competing in Santa Cruz for this like regional. He won. He won. He won. Yeah. He won. He got first place. First place, dog. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Wow. Wow. Yeah. And he had I mean there was like four competitors in his uh level, but this is a new level for him.

Um he's really good. Level 10. Yeah. So he's he's legit. legit. legit. He has to do like um double back flips now. And and so he has to get a lot higher in his approach um before. And I was talking to Adam earlier about this like he was stalled like he was stuck like so I'm really proud of him for for being able to break through. Um, and for the minute there, we actually like even because the coach that was working on, he's a really good coach, but like couldn't, you know, help get past this one thing like we I was like trying all of my speeches with him, you know?

Cory's like, can you just like, you know, pump him up, like motivate [snorts] him somehow? I'm like, I've I've literally done like everything in my playbook. I'm I'm like out. Uh, so and he just would, you know, and he's just kind of bummed because it's [clears throat] it's outside of school for one. So it's like he's doing this um putting a lot of work into this like outside of school, not with his friends and everything. And so it was kind of like he was feeling a little bit of that depression and like all this kind of stuff.

So anyway, we looked at um getting him a a sports psychologist, which I never would have thought of. Uh, but one of his um teammates had used one and and all of a sudden it like unlocked for them and so Courtney kind of presented that to me and I was like, "Oh, that's interesting. Let me see." And I at first I tried to like you know look through our rolodex of people we've interviewed and stuff and there was like Brett McCabe I think was one but uh and I looked and you know he didn't get a hold of him but there was this one guy who um was recommended that was local and um started talking to him and did some some sessions with him and um it was literally like after that one session with him he went back to the gym and then all of a sudden boom he got it and Wow.

Just like Yeah. And I was like, "WHAT DID HE SAY? WHAT WAS IT?" YOU KNOW, and it just I think you just need to hear it from somebody else and to just get empowered. Um but anyways, so all that to be said like my my story was nothing to do with any of that. I was outside. I was like walking back to my car uh with Everett and um I was wearing my sweatshirt and it's a Santa Cruz sweatshirt and so it's like a skate surf brand but it's it's really pretty much like anybody down there wears Santa Cruz brand and so these two kids with skateboards and sunglasses come up to me and they're like, like, like, "Hey, can you do a kick flip?" And this guy had like a video and he's like, "Can you do a kick flip?" And I was like I was like, "Are you guys trying to shame me right now?

Is this like some kind of setup?" Like uh I was like I'm a total poser you know this literally what they were doing. and they're trying like, "Oh, come on, old man." You know, like do a kick flip. And I was like, "Why don't you push press 315, you punks?" And I walked away and I was like, "Oh man, my ego." I was like having to check myself from like, you know, like I was going [clears throat] to say some some bad things to things to things to like uh maybe I don't know 12, 13, something like that.

But I was like, "What is this?" You know, I think it's like some Tik Tok setup or something. Totally is. That's what that is. This these kids do this [ __ ] all the time. That would have been a win for them either way. Either you kick flip or you fall. I was like, "We're going to put this on TikTok." I was so mad cuz when I left I was like talking to to to Ever. I was like, "Dude, I should just be like, "Yeah, no problem. Get their skateboard just take it and bail.

I'm going to go work on it." And then just take off. Get my skateboard. I get my skateboard back. Go ahead. Or just like stomping on it in half. Wow. Man, they're 12. Justin, listen. That's the That's the bullying me. bullying me. bullying me. I thought all these thoughts and I didn't do it. Hey, let's be honest. They're trying to set him up anyways. They're trying Yeah, they're trying to trying to make me look bad. I just, you know, was like, "Yeah, I'm a poser." So, did did uh Did Ethan um did was Ethan happy he got the coach?

He was He was um He was really resistant to it, so I I didn't say any of that, but like he was definitely pushing back and he's like he had a thought of like what it was. He thought it was like a shrink, you know, and it was like a, you know, we're going to get all into like this emotional crap and he's like, I don't want to do that, Dad. Dad. Dad. It's not like that. He's a coach, you know. It's a performance thing. Like, it's it's it's he's trying to help you overcome a an obstacle relationship with your mom.

I don't want to do that. Yeah. I was like, I don't want there. Don't worry, pal. So, yeah, once we I don't know had a few days of like kind of coaxing him into it, he finally like agreed. And then now he would he would say he totally totally totally totally oh that's oh that's and then we just intermittently kind of use if he has any kind of big uh you know barrier there like so much is mental. It's just yeah it just really helps that sports all mental.

been so long since we did that episode with Brett McKay, but I remember him talking about some stuff in there that was really interesting that that was not what I thought like with the stuff that he had to work on with I mean you guys you obviously you guys have experienced this but I I remember when I really fully experienced the mental side of it was it was uh my first tournament as an adult in jiu-jitsu cuz I did as a kid but as an adult and in the gym I felt like I was a machine like I could go forever.

I could go round after round. It felt like I was so good. And then in the tournament, I gassed out so hard in my first match and I was like, it was all psychological. It was all cuz I was too worked up, too anxious. I don't know. I suck. I had a similar uh fact. It was a it was a big joke amongst my buddies on the team that um I was like practice Adam Adam Adam like in practice like I dominated blocking shots and ding up and hitting everything and just and so I'd get I get opportunities to play and then when I'd get out on the court like forget to play freeze up do all this stuff like and just make mistakes you know and you know that back then it like you you make those mistakes you're out the next kid's inform you got to be able to perform and you know I didn't know any better at that age to even think about working on the psych the psychological side of that or anything like that.

I just keep working harder and I would do so I would work so hard in practice that coaches always wanted to give me shots like that. But when I got to and this is when I got to that bigger school when I was for some reason when I was at a small school I didn't have that same anxiety and fear and maybe that's what it was was cuz the crowds were smaller. It wasn't as it was a lower level so it wasn't quite as competitive. Less on the line maybe.

Yeah. and so did great and and that was I tell you my parents had such a hard time with that because here I come from being like the star athlete in one school and then all a sudden I'm riding the bench on the other but I I knew better cuz I knew I'd screw up like I knew I was messing up on a play or I wasn't doing something right and so I get pulled and so I didn't have any sort of like animosity to the coach it's like [ __ ] man I got to why does this happen to me it's like in practice I'm I'm so good and I get out here and like mess up you know you know you know dude speaking of athletic performance so you know that um I know you were using the transcriptions uh tro for sleep.

By the way, you tracked your deep sleep. deep sleep. deep sleep. Yes. Yes. Yes. And it has a big effect on deep sleep. Okay. So, you know the Have you seen their Tromune? their Tromune? their Tromune? I've seen it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The main ingredient is Cortisepin, which comes from the Cortisep uh supplement. So, you know, Cortisep the Okay. Okay. Okay. So, I'm like, why is this I've used Cortiseps forever. I love Cortiseps. Love it. I love it for athletic performance. performance. performance. Yeah. You've talked about it increasing stamina in your workouts before.

Stamina. I can notice my heat tolerance goes up. It's uh it's been used for a long time. Um I remember it became kind of popular because China was uh talking about using it in I don't remember which Olympic games it was when they were performing so high. But the Tromune is like another level. Like if I take that before I work out, it's like twice as effective. effective. effective. And then before sleep, I also get the same thing. I have the high the the increase in um REM in in REM sleep.

It also has an effect on immune system. So I looked it up and I'm like and I compared I'm like what is it about transcriptions versus just the normal cortiseps that I would get. Okay, big difference you guys. So cortisepin is the is one of the main active ingredients in cortiseps. It's what does the stuff that we're talking about. Okay, when you take cortiseps typically you'll take capsules and a high dose would be like 3,000 milligs of powdered cortiseps. cortiseps. cortiseps. Got it? Within 3,000 milligs, you're getting maybe 15 to 20 milligs of cortisepin if you're lucky.

If it's like super high quality, often times it's more like 2 millig or 5 milligs. Do you guys want to know how much is in a dose of tromune? of tromune? of tromune? How much? How much? How much? 75. 75. 75. Wa 75 millig of cortisepin. So they literally took it, concentrated extracted. Yeah. Super concentrated it. Oh, interesting. So, like preworkout, uh, especially if you're going to have like short rest periods or you're going to do high reps or any kind of endurance, you'll notice for sure.

And then for sleep, RAM, which is crazy cuz you tracked it. I know Doug tracked it. tracked it. tracked it. You see an increase. Yeah, I did. I saw right away very first the f first time I had one of my best REM sleeps I had I've had since I've been tracking. been tracking. been tracking. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I was like, "Oh, this is cool." Yeah. Super cool. Wow. Wow. Wow. Speak Speaking of something else that's cool. I saw this app that is got to be one of the most cool fitness apps I've seen in a long time.

No affiliation. Have you guys heard of push scroll? Push scroll. Push scroll. Push scroll. Okay. No, Okay. No, Okay. No, it's it's actually pretty cool. What is it? So, my buddy Chuck is using it. So, you connect it to your to whatever social media platforms you want to. So, you could do YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, Tik Tok, whatever you whatever you want, whatever you use a lot of. Okay? You end up earning time on those by doing exercises, push-ups, squats, sit-ups, and it'll give you time. So, like a push-up is worth two minutes.

A squat is worth 1 minute. And I'm like, "Well, that's kind of cool. Uh, but like how does it track his tracking?" You the camera. So, he showed me. He puts it up. It tracks his body movement and it'll only count a full squat. It will only count a full push-up. Then it connects to his social media. When he goes on his Instagram, he clicks on it. It's locked and it says, "Do you want to use some of your time?" You say yes. Then you pull from the time that you earned and then that's how much time you're on your social media.

And then he kicks you off. And so I'm like, "How?" And like I told him, I said, "Is this actually working?" And he goes, "Yes, my total social media time went down by more than half because I said,"Now, why is that?" He said, "Number one, you exercise for it." Was I don't mind. I like doing like activity. He goes, "But what's cool is you when you're picking the time that you want to go on your Instagram, you know, you'll say, "I only want to be on for 10 minutes." Usually, you have that idea in your mind that I'm only going to be on for 10 minutes, then it gets you get trapped.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's [clears throat] like, "But this kicks me off." And I go, "Actually was wasting time." And I come off. He's broke cut his social media time by by more than half. And he's doing like hundreds of squats and push-ups. He's a crossfitter. So, uh, but but I I'm like, can you cheat it? No. No. You got to It records you. So, he was doing squats and if it's like a half squat, it won't count. You have to do like a full That's pretty cool.

I mean, it's interesting. It's interesting to see uh how well that would work. would work. would work. Yeah. I wonder how I mean, I like that they're trying to innovate, you know, solutions for this. I think this is for someone who's fitnessminded who also wants to get off social media. I mean, I think it's a cool tool for kids. If you have a kid and you're trying to encourage them to maybe put a password on it, they can't Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I see it more valuable for I see it more valuable for that than like for me.

I feel like chores and stuff. It would be a nuisance to have to like record every bit of my workout cuz that's kind of a Well, it's not every bit of your workout. It's just, oh, I want time so I'm going to do body weightight squats or I'm going to do time. I'm going to do bodyweight push-ups. So, throughout the day, you just earn time. That's how you do it. do it. do it. That's even more ridiculous. Your volume gets out of control. I I I thought it was a cool thought it was I thought it was a cool concept.

I like what you said though, Justin. For kids, that would be kind of cool. Like if you have a kid that's like inactive. inactive. inactive. I said that, but you said that. Yeah, it's okay. I like how you were thinking it, but then I was kind of stolen. Probiotics have been shown in studies to improve gut health, digestion, reduce inflammation, reduce the risk of depression and anxiety, and improve athletic performance and recovery from your workouts. But the problem is which probiotic? Go with Seed. These are the world's best probiotic makers.

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Um, I'm going to read from my email if that's okay, just cuz I'm a little nervous and kind of band struck here. Um, but before asking my question, I wanted to express my deepest gratitude to all of you for everything that you bring to the show. I've been a listener since 2019, and the advice and insight you share has changed the way I look at health, fitness, and longevity. longevity. longevity. Uh, I wanted to add that I particularly appreciate the way you communicate respectfully and honestly to women and I respect and admire your focus on being fathers and the intentionality with which you raise your children.

So, thanks so much for all that. Thank you. That's nice. Um, I'm a huge fan of the show and I'd love some advice on making a career change to personal training. I'm a trained social worker coming to the end of a long career in child abuse investigation, supervision, and administration. I love being a social worker and I care so much about helping children and families, but I've always been passionate about fitness and movement and I'm considering a career change to fitness. I've rebounded from three knee surgeries and I manage chronic Lyme disease.

So, I feel like I have a pretty empathetic mindset for helping others work through physical struggle. I've also been diagnosed with an eating disorder and I think I can understand the mental hardships of individuals battling insecurity, anxiety, dysmorphia, and dysfunctional relationships with diet and exercise. But I have a secure and a pretty stable job that meets all my needs. I'm single. I cover all my expenses, health insurance, retirement, all the things. Um, and I'd like to make a career change. And I'd love to hear your perspective on how realistic it would be for an almost 50-year-old to enter the field of personal training.

I've spent decades working with people and meeting people where they are and helping them to make change, but I'm just not sure um and I'm hoping for some insight on how this could transfer to personal training. training. training. Yeah, very good question. I think um you have um have um have um everything it takes. Yeah, you have the right heart for personal training, which is the most important thing. um training, you know, six, seven, eight clients a day, different personalities, different challenges, lots of, you know, failures along the way.

If you don't have a deep, uh passion and love for people and wanting to help them, that gets old real fast. So, that's the most important thing. It sounds like you've got that. Um, let's talk about the the the what it would look like to move over to be a personal trainer and, you know, kind of what to expect and what the challenges may be for someone like you. I I don't think you'd have a challenge wanting to help people at all. Uh obviously that's what you do for a living now.

Um [clears throat] and your background I think um makes you you'll excel at it. You you'll do very well with it. The thing that would be uh maybe a challenge would be the sales aspect of it. Uh because as a as a as a trainer regardless of the environment you're in, big box, which is probably where where you would want to start. That'd be a great place to learn everything or private which would be much more difficult, but still you have you have to sell. You have to be able to get people to hire you.

You're not giving clients. Um sometimes in big box gyms, they'll give you some clients, but you but it is you building your business and promoting and selling. Um and that's a skill um in and of itself. Um there's also a time period where you're going to have to build your client base. If you go in and you work hard, um, you know, I would say give yourself a cushion that's like three to six months to build a good client base with, uh, you know, if you put if you apply yourself, you show up, uh, you you're there, you're learning by by 3 to 6 months in a big box gym, you'll do just fine.

Uh, because the opportunities are so plentiful in a big box gym. And then I would stay there, and big box gyms will provide you with health insurance and all that stuff. Um, and then I would stay there until you're really doing well, until you're like one of the top trainers. trainers. trainers. And then from there, you can decide if you want to go private, if you want to work in a correctional exercise um, environment, which it sounds like maybe you'd be [clears throat] more interested in or something like that or working with a functional medicine practitioner.

But it's it's but you want to learn in an environment that provides you with lots of opportunity. Like when it comes to leads and potential clients, uh big box gyms, uh they're plentiful. In smaller studios and private, there's like none. like none. like none. You have to like walk outside the studio and like try to build a business, which can be very difficult. But if you learn it in a big box arena and do well there, then you'll the odds are better that you've got what it takes to do it in a private environment.

I mean, Sal said it really well and the difference that in how difficult this would this transition would be would be solely on the sales aspect. aspect. aspect. You have everything it takes to be a good coach and and going to be a great trainer. It would it it's the transition from a very good income that's consistent that you've built already to this starting all over. And you know, does that take uh 2 months, 6 months, 8 months, a year? uh solely depends on how much you lean into the sales side.

If you get good at that and you embrace that, uh you'll do well and do well fast. Uh the the more you resist it or you don't like it or you struggle with it, that is what will extend out that pain. Like how long does it take me to get there? I think no matter what, like the you could you would become a great coach no matter what. I think that we all feel confident with your background that you would really be able to help people.

But unfortunately, there's none of these businesses that will just put people in front of you. You have to go be able to get those people. And the big box is the best place to get to to put the exercise in that because they will at least give you some clients. Whereas, if you did try and start in a small gym or go private, you would that would solely fall on you to go through that. And that's really hard. That's really hard for a good trainer. A good trainer will will struggle.

I've seen many trainers that were their top guys or girls working for me and then they went off on their own and they really struggled to to go build their business by themselves. So, I I can't I can't stress enough how important that, you know, beginning stage of learning that skill set through a big box is so valuable because they they'll give you so many good reps. And so, yeah, it really how much does that I mean, one of just so you know too, I don't know how familiar you are with the course that we created.

So when we created our trainer course um we really looked at the space and said you know where's the gap like uh we weren't trying to compete with NCSF or NASM a lot of these great nationals that do a good job with biomechanics and nutrition and human physiology what we saw the massive gap in was uh building your business was sales client communication building your scaling a business and so our course is really heavily weighted in that so if that's something you want to embark in I would highly recommend getting there because that we have a great community and we it's ongoing community.

So Ann meets with the trainers and it's within a school community so you have other trainers that are building their business at the same time. So it's very very valuable for somebody who's trying to make that transition and and Lindsay just to encourage you um and uh you know Adam Justin and myself have have worked with and trained a lot of trainers um and have helped a lot of trainers become successful and uh this is the encouraging part. Okay. Sometimes when people hear sales, they think of a either a particular type of personality or like you're selling products or you got to have this kind of like pushy.

pushy. pushy. Yeah. Pushy and you got to learn how to overcome objections and that kind of um what you're selling is is not a product. Um really what it is is how effectively can you communicate to somebody uh the value in working with someone like you. And you know how much it could really impact somebody. I mean uh you take the average person and if they exercise appropriately uh and improve their eating for them right for their body because it's different from person to person there isn't there really isn't a part of their life that won't improve from that from that from that and you know that right so it's like how effectively can I communicate that to Miss Johnson or Mr.

Smith who's in front of me. So, so that they say, "You know what? what? what? Yeah, I think I'd like to invest, you know, $1,000 or $2,000 in working with Lindsay because this is so valuable." That's the sales part uh that uh that we're talking about because uh what people see when they look at fitness is they go, "Oh, I just okay, just move it. I just got to go move more. Here's a bunch of gyms. Oh, you're a trainer. Just show me a few exercises um and then I'll be okay." and you're just like every other trainer.

So, whoever's cheaper, uh, you know, type of deal. And my membership is only 30 bucks a month. Why would I spend $2,000 for, you know, 20 sessions of training or something like that? And so, the communication aspect, which is sales, is so important uh with that. But it's not again like I I've worked with so many trainers. We're like, I just want to help people. Yeah. I'm not trying to sell anything. It's like listen, like listen, like listen, that is what's going to sell them though.

that passion you have to help people is what's going to, you know, you just have to be able to paint that picture for them clearly. Uh, and and use that communication skill to to really convey, you know, what you're going to do with them, how their life's going to be different as a result of this. And, you know, after that, it's really just a matter of like when can we start? So, I think that trainers get hung up a lot with, you know, that end result of I have to like get to the point where now they get the credit card out and it's like this friction.

Um, but really, you know, you just building up that confidence of how to really convey a crystal clear plan for them is is going to be huge. And actually, you probably already know this as a social worker. You'll go work with people and you're you're trying to get them to uh change how they live. And a lot of that hinges on how well you can communicate it. And that's sales. And so, uh, a client hires you, the sales process isn't done. Every day you train them.

It's like, okay, how can I communicate to this person in a way that gets them to make these changes in really effective, impactful, like forever ways. Um, and you've listened to our podcast for probably a little while. That's all we do on the show is I'm trying to communicate ideas in ways that click click click uh for people. So that's the part and just again I'm just trying to encourage you because um anytime I talk to somebody who's really wants to help people uh oftentimes when I say sales uh they're like uh nuhuh that's not what I want to do.

I want to help people. Yeah. No, I thank you so much. That means so much. I think. Yeah, I've been listening to you for I started listening right before COVID actually. I was coming out of a knee surgery and I had been a runner and I was like ready to slip my wrist because I couldn't run anymore. And um I had actually a then boyfriend who was like, "You got to start lifting. You got to start resistance training." And and I started listening to you guys at the same time.

And that completely changed my life. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Um and absolutely changed my life. Um, and I appreciate what you're saying because I think what I've done in social work for so long, like all I've done for 20 years is try to sell people on how to change their life. Yes. Yes. Yes. I've spent decades saying, but it's but it's been different things, right? It's been like been like been like sobriety, better jobs, not in a domestically violent relationship, not being, you know, I've been selling different things to people and I'm ready to sell something wonderful.

wonderful. wonderful. Um, that's a little different, right? like I think I'm just ready to sell something new. something new. something new. That's great. That's great. That's great. Yeah, I I would say um uh I think Ann should call you and she'll talk to you more about Yeah. Look at our course because I think it would really help you if you decide to move in that direction. Definitely. Uh my advice would be to start in a big box. That's not where you would end up unless you love it and you want end up wanting to move up in management or whatever.

[snorts] whatever. [snorts] whatever. [snorts] But that'd be the be it's like the best place to learn how to get this going. And then from there, uh, if you're like, "Oh my gosh, I want to go private or whatever," then the opportunities, uh, really open up. But that'll be the Are you located in an area where you've got access to big box gyms? gyms? gyms? Yeah. So, I'm in Charlotte. Um, which is a which is great. It's a little bit of an issue for me only in that I moved here like 10 months ago to be closer to family and help my parents that are getting to a certain point of life.

So I don't I feel like the the transition makes me nervous because I'm not super connected in this community. Like I had been been been in Philadelphia for 25 years and I you know knew so many more people and here I just don't you you guys know like life is so much about who you know and who you trust and who you can connect with. So that makes me nervous too like putting myself out there in a new career where I don't really have connections in the community yet.

But I think it's worth a shot. And my friends, I have the best friend group in the world and they all were like absolutely billion% you should do this. But several of them were like you should write in and ask the guys which means you they were like you should ask the guys and see what they say. Um so I really appreciate your feedback. feedback. feedback. Yeah. You have you have you have what it takes to be a great coach and trainer for sure. I think all of us see that and think so.

And I I think the the the first baby step before you just switch careers I think would be to go through the course because what you learn what you're going to learn through the course you can take that into whatever you do. And then also going through that will really give you if you get excited going through the course I feel like that's even more confirmation that this is where you should be. If you feel like oh man I don't know how much I like this then that's probably then that's your answer.

So, I think it's a good way to kind of like, okay, let me dip my feet in this, start moving in this direction, this direction, this direction, cuz it's definitely going to uh help you no matter where you go. There's a couple things, too, I want to touch on. One, you said community. You go into a big gym, when you walk in there, you get hired, uh your goal is to be known in that gym. I want to know everyone. I want to talk with everybody.

I want to be the mayor in here. And that can happen actually pretty quickly. Uh within a month if you just make sure to talk to people, introduce yourself, help people out, shake people's hands, before you know it, you'll know a lot of regulars in there and be kind of known in there. So that is a it's a great it's a very easy way to build a community. It's one of the advantages you have being the new person coming to gym. A lot of trainers get in their own little bubble of their client book and they they're in and out with their clients and they don't hang out and they don't hang out in the gym.

And the advantage a new trainer has is that opportunity to just spend the day in there saying hi to everybody helping everybody. And to Sal's point, within a matter of 30 days, you could be the new person, but all of a sudden respected by the the gym as the person that helps everybody. And so there's a huge opportunity as a new person coming in to to be that person. And then in your because of your background and and you mentioned your age even in there and I think and so I want to address that.

I don't know if this is what you meant by it, but sometimes people will be like, you know, I'm I'm, you know, you know, 45 or I'm 60, like like is it okay to start as a trainer? trainer? trainer? Not only yes, but actually better. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. The average client, personal training client is not 20. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The average [snorts] personal training client is probably between the ages of 40 and 65. That's on average. They're going to identify more with you than they will to the 25year-old.

You know, know, know, I would argue that was all of our I would say my biggest challenge my first decade was being 20 20ome, you know, and people looking at me like, "How do you know?" Say, "Wait, wait till you get 30. Wait till you get 40." You know, they they used to say [ __ ] like that to me all the time and I'm trying to convince them what they need to do and they're telling me like, "You don't even know. You're a kid still, right?" So, I I think it works to your favor.

You have a lot of life experience and that and that will and you will be selling to your age and above. you're not going to be selling to especially to your gender. Especially like women uh women, you know, know, know, in your age group are 100% more likely to want to hire somebody that that they feel will get them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like that was a struggle for me as an early trainer. Like the the 45year-old, you know, mom or whatever and I'm, you know, I'm 19 years old.

It's like it took me a second to convince her to train with me, you know. Yeah. You'll do great, Lindsay. Yeah. Because they think that you don't get it, right? That's right. And they were right. I didn't get it for the most part. So, yeah. yeah. yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [snorts] You'll do you'll do great. great. great. Thank you guys so much. You got it. Really appreciate it. You got it. Thanks for all you do. Really appreciate it. it. it. Thanks for calling in. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Yeah. Great question. I'm glad she called in because it's good for other people to hear what she has to say and and it gave us an opportunity to talk about um you know the important aspects of becoming a a successful trainer. successful trainer. successful trainer. Um and I it's it's good for people to hear that. Now I and I'm going to say this. I'm going be very clear. If you don't have the heart for training, it will be the worst job you've ever done in your life.

You'll hate it. If you don't have a heart for helping people, uh it'll suck. It's a human service business. You will. It will you will burn out so fast. Yeah. You need to be a fan of you have to have that. You also will too if you are resistant to the sales part. Yes. Yes. Yes. If uh you just won't grow because Yeah. I've had I've had coaches that really love helping people but are so resistant to to quote sell the sale word that they just refuse to try and get good and do those things.

And if you have that attitude going into it, you'll also fail. So it's like it takes it takes the coach who loves people or has a passion for people and then also is willing to embrace the sales side or likes the sales side to be really and and really that will determine formula that that will determine how quickly she makes this transition is how much she's open and and willing to to get good at the sales part because she has what it takes on the the the empathy and the experience and the she's more challenging things.

Yeah. Exactly. So she's going to be good with that. it's going to be how much do you embrace this like getting good at the sales aspect of this and and if she does she'll do really well. Our next caller is Sandy from Utah. Hi Sandy. Hi Sandy. Hi Sandy. How you doing Sandy? Hello. Hello. Hello. Hi guys. Hi guys. Hi guys. How you doing? How can we help you? Um well thanks for taking my call. Um I've been following Mind Pump for several years and here's my question.

I'm a 73year-old retired home health and hospice nurse. I lead a pretty busy lifestyle. In a recent podcast, you talked about the Goldilocks phase, and I think that's where I'm at. Since 2019, I've dropped 30 lbs using a reverse diet a couple of times. I've held my current weight now for about 3 years. I get 10,000 steps in a day most days. I lift three times a week from my home gym with one of my sons who's a trainer using FaceTime. My diet is protein centric, and I typically get 150 to 170 grams of protein a day.

with 60 to 80 gram of fat and 100 to 125 gram of carb. I try to stay between 1,500 and 1,800 calories a day. I eat mostly whole food with an occasional splurge of ice cream. I am 73. My fitness goal is to stay mobile and to have energy to keep up with the grandkids and to stay as independent as possible for as long as possible. My question is, what's a normal body fat for a 73year-old? My last depths of scan has my body fat at 31%.

My biometric scale that I weigh on is consistent with that number. My muscle mass is around 120 lb. With my 30 lb weight loss, I did lose a couple of pounds of muscle mass. Uh my son measured me with his calipers, but the reference chart doesn't include my age group. Um for the most of my adult life, I was 6'1. Now I'm 510 and my current weight is around 175 to 180. My lab works great. My cholesterol is 152. My triglyceride HDL ratio is 1.03. I'm only on thyroid replacement medicine.

I take vitamin Z magnesium. I started the seed probiotics. I like it a lot. I added I add collagen and 10 grams of creatine to my coffee every day. I did start on hormone replacement last year. My sleep is 6 to 7 hours a day, and with the progesterone, my deep sleep has greatly improved. I am grateful for my health. I do have a 30-year history of multiple sclerosis, but other than my downhill balance and heat intolerance, I have [clears throat] no other symptoms. I just need to know if my body fat percentage is something I need to address or not, and I wanted your thoughts.

thoughts. thoughts. Yeah. No, Yeah. No, Yeah. No, you're kicking ass. You were kicking ass. ass. ass. Yeah. So, the the best uh So, you said you had good blood work, you're active. Uh, I'm assuming there's not many limitations if you're exercising. So, you could do things like lunges and rows and and crunches and stuff like that. So, you've got decent I do all of that. Oh, Oh, Oh, I do all of that. Um, I had a total uh shoulder done last year, so I don't take the bar over my head right now, but I do dumbbell all the rest with dumbbells.

Okay. Yeah. the for at the best predictor for your health for someone like you is strength. And a grip strength test uh is actually an easy way to do this. Average grip strength for a woman your age is something like 43 pounds. Uh you're I would yours is probably much higher. Now, that's just a um a proxy for overall body strength. Okay? So, there's nothing special about grip strength. It's just an easy way to test uh and reference overall body strength, which you're which you're kicking butt because of all the all the strength training that you're doing.

But a grip a grip strength measurer, a dynamometer is really inexpensive. You can get one on Amazon. And if you just want to see for yourself, want to just want to see for yourself, you just squeeze it with your dominant hand and see where your number is and reference it to your age. And you're probably, I would imagine, a good 15 pounds over that. Uh because of all your strength training, um you've had bone density testing done. I did uh my last bone scan was a couple years ago and it was fine.

was fine. was fine. Yeah, you're doing great. Body fat percentage is great. So what you don't want Yeah. So body fat percentage obviously if it gets too high starts to get associated with poor health outcomes. health outcomes. health outcomes. But when someone's fit at higher body fat percentages, it's actually very different. Now your body fat percentage isn't that high. In fact, for someone your age, it's probably better to be in the high 20s, low 30s. I would not want you to be below 25. 25 to 30 is like, oh, yeah.

In a great place. place. place. Yeah. You're actually going to you're actually going to do better even staying around 30, 31 than you would around like 24. 24. 24. Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. Uh it actually protects you if you get injured or sick um and you need some of those reserves. Uh, but because you're strong and you're exercising and you're taking your steps and your lipids look good, like you're kicking butt. Yeah. The only bit of advice I have for you aside from just keep doing what you're doing is trying to increase calories and strength.

So, you know, like you it sounds like you've done a few reverse diets. Like I like doing that with you where we try and bump calories two 300 calories. Let's really push the weights this week. Let's try and see if we can increase the weights in some of your exercises. So really try and and improve the strength and keep creeping the calories up. And if we can do that while kind of maintaining your weight and body fat percentage where it's at, we're winning and you're continuing to win.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But what you're doing is phenomenal. Yeah. How long have you been training uh via FaceTime with your son? Oh my goodness. Well, we moved to Utah about 5 years ago. It was in person at his gym in our home in central California. Um, so we just worked it out where I do FaceTime. You know, it's I always tease him. I have to change my weights and do my own stuff. But, um, um, um, how long did you train in person with him for?

him for? him for? Oh gosh. Uh, 2009, I hired him. He's a He's a bonus kid. I hired him to because I at 59 I did two marathons back to back and I train I just hired him to train me. me. me. Oh, wow. And so I did that with my oldest son, um, back-to-back marathons and and I've kept I've kept the trainer. Um, and now he's a part of the family. He and his family. You're good. You're doing good. Because I was going to say maybe having some in-person training, but you did it for a while with him in person.

So now FaceTime FaceTime FaceTime Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. is perfectly fine. And then again, if you ever have He does this He does a strongman every year. We go back for a strong man competition at his gym and I work out with him there. So I I I do about every six months or so work out with you're doing so good. Do you take creatine? Thank you. I do. In fact, um yesterday I was stuck in an airport for 6 hours on a delay. So I listened to five of your podcasts to catch up and I that new creatine company that you're touting has capsules.

So I'm ordering those today and I'm going to bump it up to 20. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, I I mean you're doing really really well. Well, and if you ever have a question about stuff like this, just a good reminder uh that I like to tell people like you who've been doing this for a while is look around and look at your peers. [snorts] [snorts] [snorts] And you know this, I don't need to tell you this, but I'll just say this. If I put you around 50 other 73y old women, there's a big difference between you and them with mobility, with energy, with the things that you could do.

And that's a nice indicator how well you're doing. Yeah. I'm very grateful. I'm very grateful. grateful. grateful. You're doing all the You're doing all the things. Incredible. Great job. Great job. Great job. Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't worry about I love the kudos. Thank you so much. much. much. Yeah. Don't worry about your body fat percentage. You're in a great range. Yeah. You're great place. All right. All right. All right. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. I'll take it from the experts. Thank you. you. you. You got it. Yeah.

So, you know what's interesting about this? I don't I don't even know if we've really ever talked about this. So, we'll say, you know, if you're fit and healthy as a woman, generally you'll see your body fat percentage be around uh low to midish 20%. But as you get older, you actually, if you're fit, right? If you're fit and strong, you're actually better with a little bit higher. Well, you you know, you have talked about this indirectly many times. We've you've talked many times about studies that show you're better off having a higher body fat percentage and being strong than you are being uh lower body fat percentage and weak.

And so in this case, she's obviously strong. She's taking 10,000 steps. She's weight training 3 days a week. So she's a very active, strong 73y old. And so I would rather her be at a higher body fat percentage and capable of all those those feats. Then go, hey, let's try and get you down to 25%. Cut her calories, do something like that. And and inevitably, and inevitably, and inevitably, her strength would come down. You take somebody from 1,800 calories down to 14,300 calories to to lose body fat percentage.

and she's going to lose muscle and strength along the way, right? And also, it's not worth it. And it's really what you have to consider as you get older is resilience because what you see in the data is uh an older person gets sick or hurts. hurts. hurts. Their health declines very rapidly. So, let's say you're a 73y old woman, you're fit, you work out, you run, you go to the gym all the time, you're at 19% body fat. And then, let's just say you fall.

You're running and you fall. It's a total accident. You break your leg. You don't have much body fat to run off of. If you're in the hospital for a while, you're actually going to do worse than if you had 30% body fat%. This is true for men as well. So, a little bit higher with fitness is better. Which is why, too, the only advice I have for her if she were to do anything is bump calories. Yeah, her calories are a bit low. Yeah, bump calories and try and continue to get stronger.

Uh, that's the otherwise keep on going. Like, what you're doing is great. Our next caller is Maggie from British Columbia. Columbia. Columbia. What's happening, Maggie? Hey guys. Wow. Thank you so much for having me. It's so lovely to meet you all. all. all. Yeah, same. How can I help you? Yeah. Well, before I begin, I just want to say, hey, thanks guys so much for everything that you do. I'm I'm a nurse who also works in academia, and I think that preventative medicine is just so so important.

And so, I just really appreciate everything that you guys do, and I love how you guys are always backed up by by evidence and by research. So, just just keep doing what you're doing. you're doing. you're doing. Thank you. Thank you. So, before I jump into my question, like so many callers um previously, I'll give you a little backstory just to give you some context into my question. So, um I'm a 38-year-old permenopausal woman. And so, of course, growing up in the '9s and early 2000s, um you know, was in that culture of heavy cardio and low calorie intake.

Um and that was very much drilled into my head for weight loss. And so, you know, yes, it worked, but it didn't last a very long time. And so, I found that basically throughout my life, I was yo-yo dieting. And so, fast forward about 6 years ago, uh my body went through lots of changes when I had my daughter. About a year after that, my husband and I um tried for a second child and we ended up needing to do about 2 years worth of fertility treatment.

treatment. treatment. Um, unfortunately in about February 2024, we had our eighth and final loss and just decided to move ahead with our family of three and um with consultation from my physician just took about a year to kind of have my body recover, try and kind of get back to normaly. So, of course, you know, went back to low calorie intake, went back to cardio, um went back to eating healthy as I normally did. Um but of course, that year came up and nothing nothing seemed to change.

So, um I was really tired. I had a lot of abdominal fat. Um wasn't sleeping. Just wasn't making any gains at all. I'm sure that you know where this is going. So, went back to my doctor. Um, of course, my home hormones were totally all over the place. [clears throat] Um, but I did go on HRT back in September of 2025, and it was totally life-changing. I mean, like Dr. Lauren Fitzgerald, who you guys had on, said, I no longer wanted to throat punch my husband.

That was I, you know, it turns out that I actually do really like him and didn't want to divorce him every month. So, that was pretty. And, um, was sleeping again. was like seeing changes in my body in terms of, you know, my abdominal fat was was getting um was I was losing that, all of those kinds of things. and then found your podcast um January of this year and started to kind of solely do weight training and the reverse dieting which I will be honest and say that it definitely took mentally a while to kind of you know put get my brain used to that and kind of what was just so deeply ingrained in me growing up.

Um but I'm definitely seeing the the process. I'm trusting the process and I'm seeing some changes. um you know I'm lifting heavier, my clothes are fitting looser. People are commenting on like my weight loss even though I haven't actually um you know lost weight essentially, but I'm my body composition is definitely um changing. But so here comes my question. I I'm really proud of the progress that I've made with my body composition and I definitely want to keep going with that. But I do really miss running.

I have always been a runner. Um I did a half marathon last year. I'm hoping to do another one this June and I do find that like it's my happy place. It's where you know I'm meditating. I'm kind of connecting with the higher power that I believe in. Um, but my question is like is it possible to have, you know, your number one goal as your kind of aesthetic and strength while sort of having, you know, your number two goal as training for a half marathon?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And if so, how how could I best do that? No, that's a good question. Seasons. Seasons. Seasons. And now there's a lot to unpack here. Um, so Um, so Um, so so tell me about the mental health benefits you get from explain that to me. What are you what are you feeling from that that uh where you're getting value? [sighs] value? [sighs] value? [sighs] So, I mean, I definitely get it from strength training, too. Like, I definitely, you know, after I'm I'm done my strength training, especially where I'm like hitting harder and, you know, pushing more, like I definitely kind of walk away being like, "Yeah, this was awesome." Um, but it's just different with running.

I do find that I get that kind of runner's high that people talk about. Um, again, like I said, I run outside, so just kind of connecting with the earth. um you know it is where I kind of do my meditation and you know I I talk to spirit and stuff like that. Um so I I definitely really enjoy that. Um yeah so I would say those were kind of those are kind of the two things it's again it's not that I don't get it from strength training but I find that I I really get it more from running.

Okay. I have so I have a couple more questions. Um questions. Um questions. Um would [snorts and clears throat] you say that you're um kind of like a go-getter go go go um mind kind of racing? Uh you know your mentality is like if I want something I'll get it. I'll work hard towards it. Is that like would you Okay. Yeah. Totally. Which is why like again the like increased calories and the taking breaks has been really challenging for me. I I can do it but I it's definitely something that I've had to wrap my brain around for sure.

All right. Tell me if this resonates. Okay. I think the value that you're getting, the mental value that you're getting from running is that it gets you out of your head. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, and which is, by the way, not a bad value. It's a great value. value. value. Uh the problem is with someone like you in the background that you're giving me, running for someone like you is a very slippery slope. slippery slope. slippery slope. There's nothing wrong with running, but it very easy.

I'm going to I'm going to again, this is an education. Well, here's here's a slippery slope. So you you love running instantly you default to marathon. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean what I mean we can do the run. We can do some running for meditative. We don't have to go straight on to marathon. Like there's a there's a there's there's some middle ground here. But that's that's the slippery slope right there. right there. right there. That's what I mean. Yeah. Is that is that your tendency is to turn it into something that is no longer really healthy.

healthy. healthy. Uh so what I would say to you my advice for someone like you would be like okay does hiking provide that? the nature, you're outside, it's way better for your body at this moment because at this moment what it sounds like we've dealt with is uh over accumulation of overall stress. Okay. Yeah, for sure. And so we're looking at like healing the body, building muscle or the process of building muscle really works well with that. Now, that doesn't mean you can't overdo that, too, because you definitely can.

can. can. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But if you're not getting stronger, it's an easy sign to be like, "Okay, I'm overdoing it." Right? It's a nice uh signal. Uh, so you know, my advice to someone like you is if if it's if it's really about the mental benefit and you're like, "Look, that's what I really want. I want that get out of my head space type of thing." I think hiking or walking with music would would potentially provide that. Um, and and so I would say move towards that and then focus on the strength training, training, training, okay?

okay? okay? And build the muscle and get the hormones. I know you're on HRT, uh, and HRT is amazing. But the one downfall of HRT is it can kind of, uh, uh, band-aid over things because no matter what, your hormones are balanced. So, no matter how much you beat yourself up, up, up, my estrogen, progesterone, testosterone at these levels. So, I'll see this with men, too. They'll go on TRT and they'll immediately start overtraining themselves because their testosterone stays high and so the signal is harder to read, to read, to read, right?

right? right? Um, so I would say focus on the strength training. Not a ton. Uh, I would have you do like two days a week full body or MAPS 15, which is like a two a couple lifts a day. And then I'd do the hiking and then I'd focus on feeding and fueling your body. And what that's going to do is it's going to give you what you're looking for, which is that improvement in quality of life and the side effect of which being this body composition, continuing change of body composition.

Now, the challenge for you is is going to be to not scale scale scale and push push push because that that's your kind of MO. So, that's going to be the challenge that you're going to have to kind of work with as you go through this process. But I'm going to tell you on the other end of this, on the other side of this, Maggie, what it's going to feel like if you're able to do this is you're going to more and more going to you're going to more and more you're going to have this realization that oh my gosh, I can't believe I'm looking the way I am and I feel the way I am and I feels like I'm not even trying that hard because the context for you is trying really hard.

Totally. And and I think that that's kind of where I got to at the end, right? Is is just being like this isn't sustainable. this is not I don't want to do this for the rest of my life. I've done this for 25 years. I don't want to keep doing this. What I my goal is just to be, you know, healthy and happy with my body for the rest of my life. And I mean, I'm like so grateful. My my body's been through a lot and it's done a lot for me and I just, you know, I I want to keep it strong and and again sustained.

So So So So hold hold that thought right there too. So say that and then also like understand that we're marathon running doesn't fit with that narrative. Okay. Okay. Okay. You know what I'm saying? Like that like train that's and that's why when I when you first said I'm like yeah that could be a seasonal thing or a goal that we do eventually do but it doesn't fit the narrative that you just said right there. It's something that you want to maintain and do for the rest of your life.

You can't be running marathons the rest of your life every single you know 3 to six months. At least right now, any competition, any physical competition is not a good idea. Yeah, cuz that's just going to that's just going to push your button. The one that you love to push, which so I I would just not compete. I wouldn't compete. Like if you really like running that much and it's like, look, I I I don't get this from hiking. hiking. hiking. There's nothing wrong with like cruising a mile a day.

Yeah. You just go outside and do a mile run and you do it at this nice pace and you just get out of your head rather than like I got to push this run type of deal. And then you strength train and you continue to fuel and feed your body and watch what happens. Or restorative mobility and like you know some kind of yoga practice. Something where it's like you know you're directed to move but maybe it gets you out of your head a bit. Totally.

And I'll tell you what, by the way, you're you're I mean you know nurse you're nurse, right? Nurse practitioner. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Plus registered nurse, but I also teach at the university. Yeah. Dude, you're like so like this is like an avatar. Like I've worked with a lot of women like you and you're just like my wife when the you know what hits the fan like I want Maggie. Uh but the you know what is not hitting the fan all the time. So we have to figure out how to how to do things in a way that aren't just breaking you down.

You live in such a great place too. British Columbia is beautiful and there's you know I mean it's such a great place to be outside and hike and so I love that as a as a goal for you go take long hikes. Have you ever considered working with a coach to have someone kind of guide you through this? Yes, I I have I've um chatted with a woman um locally and she she actually works with a team. I haven't um pulled the plug on it yet, but it's something I kind of have been thinking about.

Yeah. Okay. So, we have coaches and if you if working virtually with a coach uh is uh something that you might be interested, I can have someone call you. I know our coaches are good and I know they'll coach you properly. A good coach is so valuable. Bad ones are terrible, but a good coach is really, really valuable. Um, and so I could have someone call you and you can kind of talk about it and see what that would look like for someone like you cuz I think I would love that.

Okay, good. Cuz I think you would thrive with guidance. I think with guidance you would really crush somebody in your be. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Okay. Yeah, I would love that. Thank you so much. All right. Perfect. Perfect. We'll have someone reach out to you. Thank you. Kill it. Doing great. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. You got it. Yeah. It's such an avatar. Oh yeah. I mean, you did so great of like asking her, you know, what are the reasons for all this stuff like that, knowing knowing where she's going to go, and it's like, uh, yeah.

I mean, she she goes from the I want it for the meditative reasons to like marathon. Exactly. Well, let's let's hold on here. We could the throat. the throat. the throat. Yeah. I was going to say we could uh we could we could do a nice jog outside or a hike outside and get a lot of those benefits. We don't have to go straight to a marathon. You know what the problem is too for for people like Maggie, and this is true for men too, is she's 38 now, right?

now, right? now, right? Her her methods worked really well for a while. while. while. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For a while she was like, "Grind, go, crush, crush, crush, push through, and get there." And it just adds up. It adds up. And then after a year, suddenly you're like, "This isn't working. I feel terrible." Okay. So, let me let me add to that, too. So for the listener and also Maggie who might listen to this, the worst thing that could happen is that she does the marathon and sees some sort of positive change physically.

That is the worst thing that could happen. She signs up for her marathon that she's told herself, I do this for meditative reasons. Oh, and I got leaner. leaner. leaner. Just reinforces. Just reinforces. Just reinforces. Yeah. Oh, I got a little leaner or I look a little bit better than what I did. did. did. Commenting and oh yeah, and then now all of a sudden it becomes that. But the truth is that wouldn't happen. She would do the marathon and her body would start push back.

Yeah. Most likely push. But that that and so that's probably what would happen though at, you know, 28 and 32 is that she would do something like that and then it would reinforce this. I love this thing. I love this. You know, because it also gave a little bit of that. And so, yeah. No, the worst case that and again, that's why I say that because maybe there's somebody who's in their early 30s that's listening to this and this is their method. I know. By the way, one of my closest friends wives is a nurse.

her method to getting in shape has always been the marathon runs like that and now where she's approaching 40 and it's such a different battle right now you know but that was how she'd get in shape is oh just sign up for my mar and by the way if you're in your 20s and you're like oh cool I can do that and get in shape there's still a better faster way it's in spite of the crappy way you're approaching is your body's getting in shape but there's a much faster way to do it do it do it our next caller is Nikki from Ontario hey Nicki good to see you again man got you you you hopefully hopefully this time we don't lose connection Yeah.

Yes. Yes. Yes. All right. Let's go. What's going on, man? Let's start over. So, tell us what's going on. Should I start over? Like, okay, I'm going to go short because I really like I need you guys to just talk. I need I need to hear you guys. Okay. Okay. Okay. So, history of uh uh it's hard cuz I was the only guy uh in a in treatment program for anorexia for in the early 2000s. 2000s. 2000s. uh stayed there about three years outpatient. Uh growing up, uh I was really big.

I know you guys hear that all the time, but it was true. I was a, you know, chubby Italian guy. My mom fed me everything. Um uh and then um so I started doing uh training. I think I was doing it all wrong. I I fell into the Beachbody programs and then I was and now uh the last few years I was following other people, you know, the whole RP scandal and everything like that. So I I was looking for some of the trust. I stumbled onto you guys and it was honestly like I know you guys hear it all the time, but you guys are amazing.

Like honestly, like you guys are so good. Like good. Like good. Like thanks man. thanks man. thanks man. Like all three of you, four of you actually with Doug. I love how you roast him about Google. Um Thanks, Nikki. Thanks, Nikki. Uh um so here uh I work as a tech. I'm work at BMW, so I'm on my feet. Um I'm I my libido is crazy down. Like I feel like garbage. I like I'm I'm not trying to lose weight, but I I like I was trying keto and then now trying to get carbs back.

like I listen to you guys and you guys are talking about whole foods and even from like potatoes and rice and I'm like I don't know like I just want to hear you say it like that it actually works and also with training like I was doing every day and I'm at the gym and I'm not getting stronger. I know that. Um but I'm watching other people do it and you guys are uh preaching the 3 days a week, 4 days a week. Like I looked at anabolic cuz I was like hey that looks pretty good.

I need an actual structured program. And uh what do I know in the off there's what do I do in the three other days? I know you have the functional one, but is it also can I really just take a day off to do nothing? Like um [clears throat] I have a kid. Um I'm about I think I'm I weighed myself so I'm 165 uh 5'5. uh 5'5. uh 5'5. Uh I try to I try not to track my macros. I mean, except protein, but I'm pretty low and it's it's just it's just hard.

It's hard. I know you guys tell all the time. You guys hear all the calls cuz they listen to you guys so much about like people trying to get their their stuff in and they can't and you just got to do it. And like I just need to hear you say that really like honestly like the like an anabolic or thing actually works like it changes people. It you reduce the volume, it goes up. Because I go to the gym, I see these guys and they're there all the time and like why are they so successful?

Why am I not successful when they're there every day pumping and doing whatever they're doing? Like I I hear you, Nikki. I hear you, man. Yell at me. No, no, no, no, no. Listen, I think you beat yourself up enough. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let me ask you a question. You're you're saying I want to know if it works. Uh what do you what define that? What do you mean? What would be works? What would be successful for you? Okay. So, I wrote some notes down like you guys preach the the reverse diet.

When I say preach, I don't mean in a bad way. Yeah, but you guys talk about the reverse diet and then um and then you say you you just stop, but you you figure out when to stop. Like if I I would you guys uh referred me to a coach, but I just can't afford it. Like I was speaking to Rob and it's just I'm sorry. Like I appreciate it, but it was just it was out of my my range. I got you. Especially right now.

No, I understand. So, how do you know when to stop and like working in the sense that you feel good and you're you're getting stronger and you're but obviously you're not getting fatter. Okay, I understand you're saying you're going to get a little bit, but I'm not talking about like bloat. Not not bloat, but like, you know, like I want to maintain maintain maintain uh I don't know like a like a 34, 33, you know what I mean? Like I don't want to to to but I want to feel better.

You Okay. So, what works to define works for you is feel better, I guess. Yeah. Like I want my libido back. I want my testosterone back. Like I want I want I want to have a kid. We're trying and I can't. Okay. Would you say that um that means being healthy? [snorts] You want to improve your health? Okay. Okay. Um so let let's start here. Um do you think you're somebody that uh is worthy of being taken care of? I ask myself a lot. Well, you got to have the answer, Nikki.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You got you got to say has to be a hell yes. You got to say yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. Okay. Okay, that's a good place to start. Um, you you you definitely need to outsource all this control, dude. Cuz I'm telling you, I can tell right now if I tell you whatever I tell you to do, it's you're going to turn it into um uh a control thing. Um and yeah, and so I think you need to outsource it to a coach.

I know you talk to one of our coaches. We are pricey because we're good. Uh I'm going to give you some free coaching. coaching. coaching. I'm going to give you a few months with one of our coaches because I think you need to outsource this and work with somebody. somebody. somebody. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And have somebody work with you through this process. And and what I mean by that, Nikki, is this is all you got to do. All you got to do is say to yourself, I'm worthy of someone.

I I am worth taking care of. I got a kid. I got a wife. Uh I am I am valuable. I'm worth taking care of. So, I'm just going to listen to what this coach is saying. Even though it doesn't feel right. Even though maybe they're telling me to eat too much food because it feels like that to me. Even though they're telling me to work out two days a week and I want to go work out every single day. Uh I know I don't take care of myself very well.

I know my history. I can't trust myself. I got to trust somebody else. So, I'm just going to follow what they say. And I think uh a few months of that should give you a better perspective on what this kind of looks like. Is that all right? Okay. And then and then all the questions you have, they'll answer, but they're going to walk you through the steps [snorts] because yes, reverse diet's probably what you're going to have to do. Definitely, you'll get better results strength training less than every single day for sure.

Uh but we got to get you in a different uh uh space around this. You need more than just the blueprint. That's right. That's right. That's right. You need more than We could sit here and lay out the blueprint of what it is, but you need more than that, Nikki. And we knew that the first time that we talked to you and that that hasn't changed and it's it's it's literally what you need to do right now with the place that you're at. If you want to be successful at this, you have to outsource and and and I and pay attention to your energy, libido, and strength.

Don't look at the mirror. Don't look at the scale. Don't worry about your, you know, if you think things are fitting tighter or looser. Focus on those other things. Uh and then you'll start to define your success by your actual health, not by the things that maybe you defined it by before, which you know can lead us towards a dark a dark path. Does that make sense? make sense? make sense? It does. Now, if I could just ask a question about that. Yes. Yes. Yes. Um like so you're okay.

If I don't look at the mirror, which I'm trying not to now because I am trying to kind of eat more. Um, how do you how are you guys as coaches like going to kind of stop me? Strength. Strength. Strength. No, no, No, no, No, no, strength. We're watching strength. We don't need Listen, you're not going to Nikki, you're not going to you're not going to gain 100 pounds of body fat. Yeah. They're not going to put you they're not going to put you on a 500 to 1,000 calories more every single day.

It's going to be small incremental bumps that we know the m we know the science of that. You could over you could overeat 250 calories a day every single day for the next month and you won't put on a pound of to two pounds of body fat. Well, how long you listen How long you've been listening to Mind Pump? It's about maybe 5 months now. Five months. Okay. Be honest with me. Do you trust I listen to But you're like, it's about like two episodes a day.

So, do you trust us? Pretty much. Pretty much. Pretty much. You trust us? You have no idea how much I love you guys. Like, oh my god. Okay, listen. Okay, listen. Okay, listen. You're going to just have to trust your coach. coach. coach. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Trust us that we hire coaches who are good and that we watch them and that we know what they're doing. Yep. Trust that because that's the only thing that's going to carry you through the first month or two because the first month or two you're going to you're going to be telling yourself this.

I got to do this. I don't know what if I get too much fat. What if I this? Just trust trust. Trust. Now, now there'll be a point where you're not going to have I'm not going to have to ask you that anymore because then you'll start to see, oh my gosh, this is working. But in the beginning, you're just going to have to trust our coach. Yep. It's going to be tough. And and you got to give it a little bit of time because you've you've beat yourself up pretty bad for a while.

And so the body doesn't just all of a sudden, you know, week one we do this, all a sudden you're, oh my god, this is amazing. I see everything already. It's like, trust the process. Trust the process. But on the and it's going to be hard. But on the other side of that, Nikki, oh my god, it's so freeing and you're going to feel amazing. We're going to fix this, dude. We're in your corner, man. Libido is going to be up. You talked. Yeah, you talked about that.

And I'm like, I want to be that guy. Like, I want to experience it. I want to you I want to call, you know, I want to be that guy that calls back and be like, you know, it worked. And you will be that guy. But the the thing that Sal asked you is so important. You have to believe you deserve it first. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You have to believe you deserve it first. first. first. And then when you believe that and then you outsource it, you trust me, which we're going to take care of for you.

You literally just got to follow the steps and do and stick to it and then you will be that guy. We're going to have a coach call you. You get three months for free with a mind pump coach and then I'm going to have you back on the phone here. That's right. That's right. That's right. And we'll talk to you again in three months. months. months. Follow up. Follow up. Follow up. Can I just have one nutrition question? Yeah. You talk about uh uh whole foods like like carbs.

Now, is oats in that category? Like let's say if you want to make like a protein uh cold oats in the morning, you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, that's fine. You talk I hear you guys talk about potatoes and rice a lot, but what about I was I was I was oats are fine. Oats are fine. It's just cuz they're easily digestible. Yeah, some people have issues digesting oats, but usually they're pretty good. Okay, that was the other one. Yeah, you're good, dude. You're good, bro.

This can be good. I'm gonna see you in 90 days, Nikki. We'll take care of the rest. Okay. In 90 days. And listen, in between the 90 days, if you want to see me, tell your coach, I want to get Sal on here with me for one session and I'll pop in. pop in. pop in. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right. All right. All right. All right, Nikki. We'll see you. We'll see you soon, dude. All right. Take care. Take it easy, buddy. All the best.

Yeah. You could just hear the the Oh, yeah. yeah. yeah. the the desperation, the fear. And um Well, that's why we sent him that fear. Yeah. To begin with. And and look, uh, coaching is a big investment. It's worth it, but it is a big investment, but I want to see this guy do well, and I think he will. I don't think it'll happen without a coach, though. No, No, No, no, it won't. Are you kidding me? I mean, uh, he hesitated to say that he believes he deserves it.

Yeah, I know. If you don't believe you deserve there, there's no way you're doing it by yourself. I mean, there's I mean, it's still going to be challenging with a coach. coach. coach. If you It's going to be hard as heck with a coach. Yeah. If you have It's impossible without one. Yeah, exactly. If you have that mindset already where you're you're unsure if you even deserve to be taken care of, uh the thought that you are going to do that on your own is is crazy.

And the the just having a coach is going to be hard. It's going to be difficult. And so hopefully uh he trusts the coach. Hopefully that uh we got the best coaches. we got the best coaches. Yeah. No, I I feel confident if he sticks with it. If he sticks with it, he's going to be okay. And he I watch the difference of the sound in his voice in three months. Yeah, I'll know as soon as he gets on. I'll know as soon as he gets on.

I I don't have to see him. I don't even know the metric. I'll know by his voice when he gets on. All right, I know you like that episode. If you did, check this one out. One of the keys to fat loss is protein. It's true. If you're not eating a high protein diet, you're not going to burn as much body fat as you can. So, today's episode, we're going to talk about the smartest ways to use protein for fat burn and to build muscle. You got to watch this.

I wish I understood this earlier in my career. I I think it was probably was probably was probably almost 10 years in when I started to just focus on this with clients. I knew it was important. Yeah. But I don't know how important. Yeah. I also did I knew what was important and but I also