The Real Reason Achievement Never Feels Like Enough (Or Quiets Your Inner Critic) | Neal Brennan

Key Takeaway

When your inner critic says achievement will finally make you worthy, test the prediction instead of automatically obeying it. Write down one goal you are chasing and answer: “What feeling do I expect this to give me, how long has achievement actually provided it, and what would a less stressful version of this pursuit look like?” Then take one small action today for the joy of making, helping, or learning—not for applause. Repeatedly noticing moving goalposts weakens their pull.

Episode Overview

Dan Harris talks with comedian Neal Brennan about the limits of achievement, status, and external validation as cures for self-criticism. Brennan reflects on his changing relationship with anger, recognition, creativity, therapy, meditation, and psychedelic experiences, ultimately exploring how to pursue meaningful work without turning life into a cortisol-fueled chase for approval.

Full Transcript

Transcript of The Real Reason Achievement Never Feels Like Enough (Or Quiets Your Inner Critic) | Neal Brennan from 10% Happier. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

Douglas Goldstein, CFP®, is the director of Profile Investment Services and the host of the Goldstein on Gelt radio show. He is a licensed financial professional both in the U.S. and Israel. Securities offered through Portfolio Resources Group, Inc., Member FINRA, SIPC, MSRB, NFA, SIFMA. Accounts carried by National Financial Services LLC. Member NYSE®, a Fidelity Investments company. His book Building Wealth in Israel is available in bookstores, on the web, or can be ordered at www.profile-financial.com. Disclaimer! While it is believed to be current and accurate, divergence from the original is to be expected.

The original podcast can be heard at https://sites.google.com or on the website of your choice. The opinions rendered herein are those of the guests, and not necessarily those of Douglas Goldstein, Profile Investment Services, Ltd., or Israel National News. Readers should consult with a professional financial advisor before making any financial decisions. Please see the complete disclaimer at https://sites.google.com. Also, like this video? If you find the video useful, please like and share it with your friends on social media as well. Also, if you have any questions or other problems, please post them in the comments section below.

Thank you for watching the Browse to Financial Capital. We'll see you next time on the Browse to Financial Capital show. If you have any questions or other problems, please post them in the comments section below. I know, but the problem is a lot of times the fucking goes away and the N and the B are not capitalized. And it's not an acute E.E. Cummings way. It's a low self-esteem way. And also, that Neil fucking Brennan does not, that a lot of people don't share whatever you think that is.

Sometimes I'm on your side, and other times I'm like, oh, I kind of agree with them. I kind of agree with the negative, what did Nixon call them, the negative nabobs? Nattering nabobs of negativity. Yes, there you go. This kind of gets to one of the famous stories about you, which is after the implosion of the Chappelle show, you carried around a little card that listed your achievements. So you kind of still need to do that. That tide has risen. I no longer need an index card of positive attributes, like Memento, where I need to remind myself of my credits.

We should just for younger people or the culturally illiterate, we should just fill in some things here. So you were the co-creator and co-writer and often director of some of the most famous segments on what I believe to be the funniest television show in the history of television, Chappelle show. And then the show fell apart for a bunch of complicated reasons that we don't need to get into. And you had a bit of a crisis and were then carrying around a little card in your pocket to remind you that you weren't a piece of shit.

That's a well, well said. Yeah, yeah, that's about right. Yeah, yes, yes, that's it. I can't even put a caveat on it. That's basically what was happening. Would you say that is I'm going to use psycho psychological speak here, hopefully not psycho babble, but is that like core wound stuff? I don't know. Truthfully, I because I don't feel that way anymore. It's a little hard to access the kind of the origin of it. I think one of the nice things about aging is you just kind of like it's kind of character traits like expire.

And I mean, some good, some bad. We just talked about not being able to remember stories, what stories we've told. And a part of me thinks it's because we podcast too much. And then a part of me thinks it's because I don't really give a shit anymore. I'm not I don't think it's important to be like sharp in every possible, you know, attribute of life and category and and fastidious in every way. And it's great. The core wound, like, I don't think I'm good enough. I think part of my problem was like, I always thought I was a pretty good, but then the world would be like, no, no, you're not.

And I'd be like, really? No. So so. And that was a big win, especially when it was a big like, no, absolutely not. But you were shouted out on the show as a viewer. You were you were to me. I thought you were like the alpha and omega. I can't explain it. Between me and Dave, there was like an understanding. But between me and Comedy Central, between me and another producer, there was always just like a like thwarting. It was always just like, eh. Beat it.

It's what I call doing the dishes like you can come, but you got to do the dishes. You won an Emmy for directing the I did. I got nominated. The guy who directed the Oscars in 2003 beat me for directing. You saw the Emmys, the Oscars that year. You know, it was worth it. It's like Dancing with Wolves. I really relate to that. You do? Yes, because, I mean, I was in the news business for 30 years and I and I, you know, on paper, if I had made my own little index card, I had done a lot of things.

But I always felt like I didn't get as much respect as the other guys. I didn't get as far as many of my peers made it in the industry. I remember what probably the worst day for me, just in terms of my morale as a part of ABC News. We did it. They brought everybody together to take a big group photo in like 2010. And they had all of us in this photo. And then they said, OK, everybody else leave except for these core eight. Do they name the core eight?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I have. We all had to sit there and watch them get their picture taken. And that was the picture they ended up using everywhere and all the press. Everything else was. Yeah. Oh, I can. I mean, there there was literally like a Netflix one of those three weeks ago. They didn't make anybody leave. But there's plenty. I mean, there's a joke in in the blocks Netflix special I did where Ted Sarandos at a party said, it's so exciting to be all around all my comedy heroes.

And Chris Rock yelled out and Neil Brennan, which is fucking hilarious. Yeah. Even as Neil Brennan. Really? Yeah. That to me is like getting a Picasso from Picasso. Do you know what I mean? Like, why be friends with Chris Rock, even if the Picasso drawing is you as a piece of shit? Awful and awful. Like, but I also know, like, I'm the least famous person there in terms of comedy heroes. It's like if it's me, Eddie Murphy, Chris Rock, Dave Allen, it's like I'm not I'm not on there in their category.

Like, even I know that I'm in a category. It's not a blowout. And I know it's not a blowout because I've written for them. So it's this is a charisma issue. It's a charisma issue. If I can write again, I don't know what this podcast has become. But if I can write for Chris, Dave, Ellen. Seth and Beryl, some of the biggest comedians or whatever. Well, then I can clearly it's not a writing issue. It's not a funny issue. It's like I'm anyone would say I'm funny.

Anyone would say I'm a great writer. So it's a charisma issue or it's a it's it's a performing issue. Right. You've had four Netflix specials, three and a half. OK, those are really well regarded specials. So it can't be a performance. No. Well, here's a good and this is not anything I feel bad about anymore. Like, I really don't. This is a truly I'm just explaining what it was like from my point of view that I I can look at it seriously, objectively. Like when I say that Chris joke was a clean like it was a clean hit, it's a clean hit.

Like it's a fucking great joke. So I post a joke yesterday, literally a joke on Instagram yesterday, June twenty twenty six. And so right. This guy's one of my favorite writers. I'm on stage doing standup. What did I write that you like? Like, OK, Chabelle show. What did I write? You don't know what I wrote. You know, I wrote this and I'm performing it. But it's it I think it's one of these branding things or something where people go like, oh, you're a writer. They just go like, oh, that guy writes for Dave.

So so it's it's kind of a hard thing for them. It's like when someone says her name's Billy and they go, no, call me William. And you're like, all right, come on. Or a better one is Hassan Minaj started saying, no, I'm Hassan. Hey, man, you told me to call you Hassan for eight years. The grooves are pretty deep or another one. My sisters, I don't call them by their married names. Wait for them to get forced. They'll be back. They'll be back to Brennan soon enough.

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Then I did. Bufo five of DMT, the nuclear bomb of of psychedelics, and it it was like it changed my brain chemistry. Which one? I was both of them. It was over two years. And then since then, MDMA has been completely inexact process. And I don't know if it could have worked any other sequence. But that's the sequence I've done them in now. And again, not by design, not by having said that, also not haphazardly, not just like, what is it? So so but it's been it changed.

It changed my essence to the point where people that don't know will come up and go like, what's different about you? It transformed me. I would say I'm I was thinking on the way over here, I'm probably 35 percent happier from drugs. If you want to go, if you want that extra 25 percent, get to go to my DMZ. Do the don't. And by the way, don't get my DMZ because people somebody got. I mean, somebody people will because I talk about this shit publicly. People think I have it.

I'm like, I don't, you gotta kind of do some of your own. Finally, this is an area that I would like you to do your own research. Please, when you're doing all your COVID stuff and your vaccine stuff, go the extra mile. What is the mechanism by which Ayahuasca, DMT, and then Ecstasy slash MDMA. Oh, that's old guy. Yeah, that. Tell me you're old without telling me you're old. Exactly, I think I'm older than you. Yeah, phew. What is the mechanism by which this transformed you?

It was harrowing. I had an Ayahuasca experience that was really awful. First one was great. And then the second and third were great. The fourth was a nightmare. Cause it was with what I call a rickety shaman. Just didn't know what he was doing and drank too much. And, you know, Ayahuasca's really, it's a very, it's entheogenic. So it's, I don't even know what the definition of that is. But it's, you're dealing with some real non-linear, I believe spiritual stuff, right? So you're going, I was thrust into outer space by myself and the universe was gonna die.

So I was just literally going, hmm. I was breathing. It's one of your terms. It's an Indian breathing thing. Like where you go, hmm. No Ujjayi? No, but someone you'll know. Sound off in the comments. I thought I was in outer space and I thought this would be some kind of beacon. I was doing it for three hours, but I knew you were gonna be okay. From my point of view, I thought I was in outer space. The universe is gonna die, Saturn, rivers, babies. So came to, covered in vomit.

I'll show you the photo. You can put it on your stupid podcast. And scared for three days. Had to sleep with the lights on. But I'm scared of what I don't know. Just, I think like some kind of PTSD reaction. Now, two ceremonies earlier, I'm doing a flashback. Two ceremonies, I went from being an atheist to believing in God. As I'm in outer space and like the universe is gonna die, I was thinking like, I don't, we don't need to do this. I believe in the central creation force.

We don't gotta do all this. So after the bad experience, we'll call it episode four, where I, outer space, whatever, the floorboards in my mind felt like, when you go off antidepressants, they got mushy. I had to go off antidepressants to do ayahuasca. I'm sure I'm jumping around. I haven't done it for that reason. Might be worth it, but might not. Well, you're not selling it. Covered in vomit after. Hold on, you're, this guy's getting caught up in the, you're like the guy in the movie goes, who's that?

It's, wait. So when I went off antidepressants, I would say the floorboards of my mood were a little mushy, right? After this awful ayahuasca experience, my floorboards were firmer and higher. That's the best way to describe it. After you went through. After I went through a harrowing outer space vomiting on myself experience. And after you slept with the lights on for three days. So you had to get through the harrowing experience and the aftermath and then. I actually think it had happened before the lights thing.

I think it happened, I think it had happened when I came to, I was like unnerved. What is it about the harrowing experience that would have reinforced the floorboards? I believe that these psychedelic experiences are, or chemicals, whatever you wanna call them, it feels like a software upgrade, right? When you upgrade your computer, it goes to sleep. This wasn't, you have to, it's basically like kind of going through surgery and you're awake. It's a bit like, how would you change a human spirit and character? You know what I mean?

Like how do you change 50, however many years it was at this point? Experience, life, consciousness, how would you alter that? Not like you say over it, but how would that be altered? I think it's through these medicine, chemical, whatever you wanna call them. I think that's a way to do it. Do you think you needed the rickety shaman and the outer space harrowing experience in order to get the benefit or could you have gotten it with all of the positive experiences? I kind of think I had to have the bad experience.

I think that's what changes the brain. Again, this is completely theoretical and don't record this or release it. It's completely theoretical, but that's the sense I have of it is that the positive experiences are helpful. That felt like the most brain alteration I went through. Okay, so that's the ayahuasca number four. Ceremonies five through nine are a nightmare. I might've had like PTSD or something. I mean, at one point in number five, I'm in ceremony. I believe I hear a tiger in the room, like acoustically correct in the room.

And then a tiger comes around a table and it's the only time in my life I went, like I've never done that. You don't fall for jump scares? No, I'll wince, but I don't do it. I believe that's the domain of the woman. No, I have a joke about my wife just constantly doing that. And by the way, it's most women. They do it all day. My mom, sister, everybody. I also experienced things on ayahuasca that are really hard to explain. I feel like regress isn't even the right word.

Like you experience life from like a million years ago. It's like real pretty wild stuff. To say it's not for the faint of heart is, I don't know if everybody has this kind of experience. I should also note, like this is just my experience with it, but there were times where I'd be on ayahuasca and I'd be so disoriented that I would have to remind myself I was a mammal. Wow. It gets pretty like what they call in construction, taking it down to the studs. The knock on psychedelics is that they can be, the experiences can be incredibly powerful, but without, and this is the term of art, integration without practice.

I know, which again, that's one of those things. Integration is as vague a term as the toxins. Right, but some sort of practice to kind of get it into your molecules in an abiding way. And do you have that therapy, meditation, something? I've gone to therapy a lot and then less so in the last 10 years, but I don't drink, I'm vegetarian, vegan. I do meditate intermittently. So I have a journal. I do this, I think I integrate, but they don't tell you what integration is.

That's the thing, you need to integrate. That's the problem. I mean, I think that's the legit critique of the psychedelic space. There's a lot of bullshit in psychedelic. I mean, there's just a lot of bullshit. There's just, it's a bit like a friend of mine in AI says like, you can't really be negative. It's a bit of like, let's just affirm this. And it's like, guys, this is what I experienced in psychedelics, where they go, they're gonna legalize Ibogaine. Okay, this is not just like, go to the dispensary and get it type stuff.

It's like you're dealing with potent streams of something. Yeah. So that I haven't even told you about the really bad one. Well, please do. So ayahuasca, one is great. Two and three are great. Four is a nightmare. Five through nine are also a nightmare. The tiger, of course. Another one, maybe not the tiger one, where I thought it was the rapture. I was hearing helicopters. I don't know why there were gonna be helicopters during the rapture. And then maybe 10 through 17 were really beautiful transcendent.

There are times where it's too close to God. That there's something so profound that it's terrifying, in my experience. I almost think there's a lot of vomiting in ayahuasca. And I think a part of it is like, I don't know if, I feel like there's a movie where some sort of deity appears and people are vomiting. There's something so big. It's like Apocalypto. You ever see Apocalypto? No. I wonder why. Directed by Mel Gibson. Yeah, that Mel Gibson. After all the stuff. See, I separate the art from the artist.

We'll be right back. Yeah, what's funny about Mel Gibson is he's such a good director, it's hilarious. The fact that he's like, I'm gonna make a movie in Aramaic and a more obscure language and they're still gonna be great and big hits. There's a lot of God stuff in Apocalypto and it really does feel that profound. So in the midst, maybe around between ayahuasca 13 and 14, I did 5-MAO-DMT, which is Bufalovarius. It's the toad secretion that they turn to a powder and you smoke it.

And that one, you go, you get like blasted into, I believe I was blasted. I was blasted to a thing that I was like, this is before the Big Bang. I didn't know what breathing was. I didn't know anything. I was like, I'm the first, I was like an amoeba. In my head, I heard the phrase, God's not here yet. This is why I'm saying like, so they're just gonna legalize this. Okay. And they're not legalizing Bufo, but like ibogaine isn't that different from this. And then it kind of fades away after about 20 minutes, 25 minutes.

You come back into yourself. And I was like, okay. That was, it was like, I think that was good, right? About a week passes and I start to have what's called a reactivation, what they used to call acid flashbacks. It was a reactivation where I was talking to my friend, Ryan Hamilton, great comedian, and we're standing on the corner, Sixth Avenue in like Bleecker. And I can just kind of feel it creeping, the sort of DMT white void energy. And I'm like, I gotta get, I gotta get upstairs.

Went upstairs, tried to watch the Linda Ronstadt documentary on HBO. As one does in moments of where you need solace. Show some respect. 80 million records, that's a lot of records. And then went to, and then it kept coming. I was like, all right, I gotta go to sleep. Woke up, still, it was stronger. I was like, I went on like a coffee date with a woman. So I'm having coffee with a woman. And it's like half person and like kind of half white noise. Which I'm like, this is bad.

This is really bad. And you don't know when it's gonna end? I don't know why it's there. And I don't know why it's gonna end. It's really disoriented. I start thinking like, am I in God's imagination? Am I, I mean, just like really stuff that you're not, like to the point where I have a thought like, I might have to kill myself to get away from this. But here's why I didn't, and it's actually more harrowing. I didn't because I knew I'd be going into more of it if I did.

Somebody said your crown chakra was too open. Who knows what, truly no one knows what it is. Now, having done some research, I love the word research, it's completely ruined now. Research, like 70% of people get reactivations, which they don't, if you do it intravenously, which no one does, almost nobody gets reactivations. Smoking, it's like something like 70% in one of the studies I saw. But I think they're minor. Mine was lasting two days, three days, and I was like, this is crazy. Where I'm like, I'm thinking things like, why are steps?

Like stuff that's, and then I'm doing my block show in New York, in the West Village, and it's going well. By the way, I should note, it's going a little better, but I'm so disoriented, I'm, I don't know, not like I don't know who I am or what I'm doing, but I'm just like, this is not relatable, what I'm experiencing right now. And it's not exactly depersonalization, which is, you don't relate to, it's just, it was somewhere between derealization and depersonalization, which are two things that I found out about later.

My extensive research, go to my GoFundMe, and I'll research whatever I want. You pay for it, America. And there was a Hemingway, Ken Burns documentary, excellent, and it's actually better than Hemingway's writing, and I mean that, because I tried to read some afterward, and I was like, I like his story better than his writing. And he talks about getting shot, and he's like, it was like a ribbon flew out of me and then flew back in, and I was like, all right, we gotta stop. Like, I just could not take, I was just in that.

But the floorboards, Dan, I'm sorry to say, were firmer and higher. Is the punchline here that one needs to go through hell repeatedly in order to? The punchline is I went through hell. I don't know if one does, I don't know if everyone does. It's like antidepressants, where you don't know what's gonna work, why it works, what it is. They don't even know what a lot of these drugs are, and I'm not saying it as a negative, I'm just saying it's like, I think they work, but they don't exactly know why.

I believe I got like a half a percent better every day, speaking of percentage and better. I got a half percent more, what I would call myself. Or I just came back to like not open. and chakra, what are steps? Just, I knew what steps were, or why are steps? If you're doing the math on that, that's. Takes a long time. Yeah, that's, I didn't do any psychedelics for a year, because I was like, I didn't meditate. I knew you can't meditate, you cannot meditate, because I didn't need to get removed from my human experience.

I was like pretty squarely removed from it. But I got a little better every day. And the other punchline is, I was 10% funnier, I swear to you, 10 to 15%, bigger laughs. Bigger, it was crazy, it was fucking crazy. Another thing, side effect, so when I'd go to sleep during this sort of period, this post-Buffo experience, I'd free fall, just stuff like that, where he's like, what is that? What's that? Like I said, I don't wanna do any of this. I'm happy at 10%. You wanna meet God or not?

That's the thing I would say to people. It's like, yo, my man, you trying to meet God or what? Like that's what it, I mean, that, yo fam. That's what, I mean, that's really what it is. I don't know if I have the courage. Yeah, it's kamikaze shit, more than anything. It's like, it's, courage isn't even the right word. It is, yeah, I guess it is a form of courage, but it's a bit of kamikaze, nothing left to lose kind of thing, like I didn't like my experience.

I didn't, before I did it, I was like, I just was, things were like kind of gray. Things were just a little drab. I mean, it showed up in your comedy. I mean, there was so, it was just a repeated refrain of unhappiness and my inner monologue is out of control. And then that was Three Mikes and Blocks, crazy good, it's just fucking, that's the result is I'm funnier, I can hit the throttle, I can throw, I never, it was like having Tommy John's, it was like Tommy John's, it's a sports thing.

It's like a surgery that pitchers would get after they, and they were better at pitching. It felt like that. Wait, so you had done all of this medicine before you did Three Mikes and Blocks? No, no, no, I did Three Mikes and Blocks, then I did the medicine stuff. A Blocks was written before Ayahuasca. It's sort of about what I was like before Ayahuasca. I don't say that, when I was doing Blocks, I didn't feel that way anymore. And then Crazy Good, the most recent one from two years ago, it's like that was the one where it's like, that's the result of all this stuff.

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Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates, price and coverage match limited by state law. A lot of comedians, I think, and it's not that I know a ton of comedians, but I know some of them. One of the ideas I think that is prevalent among comedians is you need to be fucked up and unhappy in order to be funny, but you are, I think you're sitting here telling me you got 35% happier and you're funnier. Yes. Does that challenge the assumption? There's a longer story here, which is it queers the whole narrative, but, and I don't want a queer narrative.

I am an ally, but I don't want a queer narrative. The issue is I can still write jokes. So can you write jokes? And if you can write jokes, then it comes down to life force. My life force was different. As a result of DMT and Ayahuasca and MDMA, my life force was different. The writing was of the same style, right? But the life force was different. I don't know what I was like to audiences, but I just read funnier to them. It was more, I was lighter.

I was lighter, and it was partially in the material, but I was just like lighter and more kind of like there was a fun recklessness to me that didn't exist before. But I think this is really important because it's not just comedians. People think Van Gogh chopped off his ear or part of his ear and Beethoven was a mess. That is the prerequisite for making great art. And I think what you're saying is, no, no, you can, if your life force is, you can be happy and on point and still make really powerful stuff.

Yeah, I know some really funny people that aren't a mess. It's, there's a phrase I heard one time, being loyal to the wound. Yeah. And it's, I think people, if you say like, I have to be fucked up, you're indemnified, you're exonerated. You don't have to, you have no responsibilities to being a decent person. Or to working on yourself. Yeah, he's, ah, man, I don't wanna lose it. So you took your show, the Netflix special available for streaming now, Blocks, and turned it into a podcast where you interview people about their blocks.

Yes. Two things to say about this. One, I heard you comment on a podcast that nobody actually talks about their real blocks. They talk about the blocks that they're comfortable performing in public. The second is an actual question, which is. I'm a real piece of shit. Go ahead. No, no, no, I thought that was an interesting. I think it's probably true. I think there's, I think podcasts have, podcasts is a genre that people can perform now. It's a, or revelation is a genre. Yes, vulnerability. Vulnerability is a genre.

It's a genre. I think it existed somewhat before, and I think from the advent of like Maren's podcast, it became like, people go, I know how to do this. I know my version of this. Well, so, it leads me to my question, which is do you, after all of this work you did, what are your remaining blocks? I used to yell at therapists about my issues, right? The, you know, the litany. It's what I call like the, when you go to therapy and you go like, you just do the, uses your monologue, right?

Then it changes week to week a little bit, but it's the same, it's the same monologue. And I used to, one time I was like, it's in my body. This is in my body. Whatever this is is in my body. It's not in my brain. I guess it's in my brain, but it's mostly in my body, right? And the DMT and the ayahuasca got it out of my body. Like an exorcism. Yeah, it's something, it's something, some deliverance of some kind. So does that mean there are no blocks then, or it means there are blocks?

What do you think? I'm kidding. No, of course there's still, there's still blocks, but they're, again, man, I don't know if it's age or I don't even want to call it wisdom because it just doesn't seem like I've considered it. And now it's like, I just don't react to stuff as, I'm just not furious anymore. I was just furious and I'm not furious anymore. I was told that this episode was gonna be about negative thinking. And what I was gonna say is the disappointing thing about negative thinking, or again, disappointing is not the right word.

Success makes you feel good. Success and status can make you feel a little bit better forever. It's gross, you know? But you had all the successes, status, and you had to write down an index card. Again, it was all with an asterisk. You ask people in a blind taste test who wrote most of Chappelle's show, please. I know that. The only person who knows who wrote what is Dave. He's not dying to fucking, you know what I mean? Like, so he's not dying to be like, like, it's just not what's gonna happen.

And that truly is not like a judgment on his character. It's just like, that's not a human thing. The incentives don't run in that direction, yeah. So, and it's not like, oh, he'd be embarrassed or whatever. It's just, he's better off with everyone thinking it was him. You know what I mean? We used to make jokes about it. I mean, when we did Half-Baked, thank you. When we did Half-Baked, when we wrote Half-Baked. The movie, just to be clear. The movie, again, for the youngsters. It was, it opened against Titanic.

Anyhow, they made a movie about, remember when that submarine exploded? The thing they were looking for, they made a movie. It's very interesting to be interviewing somebody who's constantly relating to the camera. Again, this is where I do my podcast. This is my move. So, if you're listening to this, you are throwing away a pretty incredible experience because I'm doing some wild looks to camera. Some Krasinski-level looks to camera. But we had a thing where we wouldn't say who wrote what because any time someone asks who wrote a joke, they don't have your best interest in mind.

Anyone in comedy who asks who wrote this, they're trying to see, it's a bit like, what do you do for work? How should I treat you? So, we made a decision in 1997, because we're old, to not say. It's kind of Lennon-McCartney. How many people do you think believe that? Well, actually, as I say it, they did credit themselves. Well, I know, and there was a whole thing of order, and that was an ongoing issue well after his death. And Lennon was really pissed about Yesterday, which everybody knew was Paul's song, and then Lennon uses it in a diss track on the same record in which he includes Imagine as the lead-off single.

Do you think you're the only one who read You Never Give Me Your Money? I didn't read that. Oh, my God. I read John and Paul Love Story. Okay, You Never Give Me Your Money is a book about the Beatles after they broke up their business, and the whole book is just like, you're reading it going, don't do that. Oh, don't do that. It's the imbeciles in terms of business. Yeah, yes, anyway, so I derailed your story with a bad analogy. Great artist. So all this stuff I did, it was always like with Michael Jordan.

So it's like, you know, it's with this titan. All this, you've done this, you've done, no one thinks I did it. And the other thing was, there was also a thing where like, I'm taking credit from this beloved guy. I'm not taking credit. It's our credit. Do you know what I mean? And I say this with less self-pity than I've ever had about it. There are times where I've had lots of self-pity in life in general, but that's a great thing that's been lifted. It's not gone.

Reduced. Reduced, yeah. It's an odd, interesting experience to be made. It's interesting to everybody. I'll tell an anecdote. Okay, fine. Twist my arm. It's not even a great story, but the other night, the Knicks won in God advanced to the finals, right? And by the time the service, they will have been, they will have won. I've lost the finals in five games. So it's a lot of merriment on the street. And I'm standing there talking to a buddy of mine and the guy comes up and he's got a Knicks jersey and he's like, yeah, we did it.

And he goes, tell Dave Chappelle that tell that to Dave Chappelle and keeps walking. I'm like, why are you mad at there? Was like, and I said, that was hostile. Wasn't it? And he's like, yeah. And it's like, what, what I want to like, stop it. I go, what are you doing? Why are you mad at me? Or there was a whole thing where I would bring it up too much. And it's like, guys, it's just an odd thing. It's just very odd. We had a little pool party yesterday with some family friends.

They were about, I would say about 10 kids in the pool at the same time. And they were all playing with these great toys. Many of which we got from our sponsor today, Wayfair, including an awesome floating basketball net that my son had been dunking on, on the regular, there's also, I don't know how to describe it. It's this floating thing with holes in it. And you can throw a football into it. And my son has been working on a spiral in the pool with his friends.

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Visit Progressive.com, find a rate that works for you with the Name Your Price tool. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates, price and coverage match limited by state law. I love your story and we didn't even get into your childhood, but raised with, you know, 10 siblings and a violent alcoholic father and who, as you've described him, like didn't bother me. Didn't. Yeah. Okay. It just doesn't even, it's, I don't, there's so many things that I don't identify with. Like I'm just, I barely identify with Trafalgar, like I barely identify with my family story.

I like, that's a, it's nice. It seems incredibly nice. And it was kind of building to a question there, which is like, if all of this is down to psychedelics, is that the lesson the listener should take away from this? Or is there something else? I don't know. I don't think it's one thing, do you know what I mean? Like, I think I've always been had a bent for living with some level of philosophy or, you know, so like free Mike's is all predates psychedelics and it's pretty like something, there's something kind of ethereal about it.

I think I'm inclined in that regard into some sort of, and I think it's inclined in that regard into some sort of, and growth. And I've always gone to 12 step programs and tried to not necessarily like a mind, a grind set, a growth grind set. I like, I haven't necessarily, I don't, I've always been just kind of like, ah, let me try that. I'll just, I'll just try stuff. So I think a combination of age, psychedelics and age, meaning that thing I said about just like character traits kind of expiring or, or like flaking off, you know, achieving stuff.

It's embarrassing to say, like, I've been thinking about that when people go, what's your guilty pleasure? And I want to go like achievement. I wish I were like spirit and pure art and pure, but it's like, I don't know. It feels good to get to the top of the Kilimanjaro or whatever. Like it feels good. Just feels good to accomplish it. It feels good to make hours of comedy. It feels good to having done sketches, even though I don't relate to it anymore. Like the negative talk does, it loses credibility.

You know, when you're like, what the fuck are you talking about? Like, I don't know, man. Do you have this thing a whole bit where sometimes your negative, the voice in your head will serve up some sort of vicious self-criticism and you'll say, maybe, yeah, I, I heard that on the way over here about that old interview where it was, I said like, you go, I don't, I mean, it just gets to the point where you just go, I don't know, man. Like it just, they, and even it doesn't believe it anymore, right.

You know, it's like an old legacy act where you're like, are you still doing the, you're still touring with Neil's stupid? I don't, it doesn't even, it's not even a good song anymore doing state fairs. You're doing the two, the America two 50 concert playing Neil's stupid drop out. So accomplishment drugs. And I think some level of pattern recognition, it's pattern recognition for good, meaning, you know, it's not just like that dude's face looks like whatever, so-and-so it looks like so-and-so or whatever, your shirt looks like a couch or whatever, just like comedy ones, the things I thought were going to happen, didn't happen.

Stop doing it. You know, like the things that I thought were, if I do X, I'll be Y kind of person. It'll make me think I'm this kind of person forever. And it's like, it doesn't, it, it does. It's not indicative of maybe anything, which contradicts a little bit what I said about achievement, but it's, it's more like 35,000 feet where you're like, what are you, what are you chasing this money chasing? What truly, what are you chasing? It's a bit like, you know, the, the, if like one of those greyhounds was like, what is, this is not even a real, it's not even a real piece of meat.

This is a fucking decoy, you know? Um, and just a, a, a glimpse of that now where I'm like, okay, I'm, I'm busting my ass for a thing that I was thought I would get, you know, that thing that you said, you've done, you've done all this stuff, right? I qualify for respect comedy Rushmore in my mind. Great. Thank you. I am one of the four best comedians who's ever done anything, but I know you could do some, some, not Rushmore, but like he's now talking to the, I was like, if you're just listening to us, you're just joining us.

Anytime I say something wry, a lot of people, I didn't qualify is the truth. And, and I thought, well, this next one will get them. They don't even watch the stuff. Is the, is what I realized. I'm like, I'm chasing this thing thinking that if I do enough stuff, I will get some level of like automatic respect, right? They'll have me on their podcast or they'll automatically do my podcast or the, and it's like, no, there's a, there's, I found that the goalposts keep moving. I don't know if it's for everybody.

It feels like it's pretty good for me in your case. I was wrong. Do you know what I mean? So maybe I'm misjudging stuff, but I just, the like living for external validation and I just, I it's, I'm not getting it. You mentioned achievement earlier as a salve for, you know, uh, uh, lifelong feelings of, of, of, of discontent and depression, et cetera, et cetera. I think it was more like, I thought I was good. And it was like, no, you're not. Oh, okay. So I have to qualify.

It's like, I have to qualify for, for, I have to get my driver's license every year. But what I, I guess what I'm hearing there though, is yes, there's achievement mixed with contentment that you've arrived at now, which is you're, you're making stuff. A lot of people like it. Maybe not all the people you were hoping that liked it like it, but you're not chasing that decoy anymore. You're happy making what you're making and reaching who you're reaching. So what would that life look like? No, I I'm with you.

I'm I, I look, if you think I didn't do a 10 day silent retreat at spirit rock, you don't know the first thing about me. I did it. It was one of the best days of my life and that's why I haven't done it since. Um, but no, I don't, I don't, I'm real close to that. And, and it's like, that's what I'm saying. It's a longer story where I'm closer to, I'm sick of being stressed out with worry all the time. And another thing that I mentioned is like money.

I must have made some money, right? Doing all this stuff. You gotta think I've made some money. So at a certain point you go, what, what, what am I, I'm like stressing myself out for it's that thing of like getting, you know, things for people, trying to impress people that don't like you, whatever. I'm just, I'm like, I know I'm fine. It's like, I know I'm funny. And I kept going like, well, I'll prove it and prove it. And there's still people that are like on the fence.

And I'm like, I don't think this is a me issue at this point. I think you just don't want to think I'm funny. So, so the, so I'm just getting closer to like, eh, I'd like to live a less stressful life or just make for the joy of making and not worry about what, what the people you're worrying about think. Yeah. Or just be it's you can just, I can just be fun. I'm still funny. If I have a funny thought, it doesn't matter if I record it.

I remember I used to write movies, screenplays, and a couple of them got made, but it was like, people go, ah, it didn't get many. And I'm like, no, I made it. It's like, it is, it is a little esoteric and like a little something, but it's like, no, I, it's better up here. Anyway, trust me, they're better up here. They're flawless. Every joke works up here. So like, so that's the, it's the, the tension between purpose. I would say it's tension between purpose and a heart attack.

Like I don't, I'd like some purpose, but what if my purpose didn't involve cortisol? Like, is that possible? So that's more where I am. And cause it's like, what's the point of having money for, if you're just going to keep, I got friends that with so much money who will intentionally make themselves agitated to keep doing this thing for money they don't need. I, it, it, you, it gets into this weird, like, what is a life? What's a life? What, what is the point? And, uh, my son asked me that question the other day.

Hopefully you'll play him this podcast. Um, what did you answer? How old? He's 11. He asked me, what's the point of life? I play video games and they try to make you think it's important, but I know it's not. And is life like that? Like we're just going to die. They try to make you think video games are, you accumulate all of these points and everything like that, but then you eventually you lose. And so like, what's that, that's obviously futile. And so what, what is the meaning of, yeah, it's hard to know.

Cause I'm involved, my, my girl, I'm basically a step stepdad and, and, uh, it's hard to know what to espouse. Yeah. Well, I, I, I told him you have to figure it out for yourself, but for me, the answer is a corny, but love, like all in this bus together, we don't know how it got on the bus, it appears to be heading off a cliff. So what's the move? Be nice to the other passengers. Yeah. Yeah. And, and so, I mean, I had the thought the other day, what if a person were as ambitious about like decency as they were about their career?

Yes. Yes. And it's just really hard. Again, these are all sort of like, where am I thoughts where you go? Okay. What if I took the same engineer, whatever good, positive qualities and, and made them and aim them at decency and kindness and happiness and it, and how much should it just be about my happiness? How much should it be communal? How much of it, how much of that's futile? How much of that is like, Oh, what am I? As somebody who's been vegan for 15, whatever, many years, almost 20, I kept waiting for everybody to join me.

Still, still pretty, pretty sparse. I was talking to a Buddhist nun yesterday. Who's we're talking. Yeah, I know. I know. I know. Uh, and she basically said, uh, you know, just on point to what you said around like wanting everybody to join you and whatever your cause is, she said, do the only sane way to try to affect changes, do what you can and then let it go. Yeah. I don't, that, that's a, that, I mean, that's another thing. It's that pattern recognition thing of like, I was mad that people weren't, no, I wasn't mad as I was mad anyway, but, but it was about racial justice or, or the climate change or whatever, all these things.

And there hasn't been a lot of movement and, and which I don't go into like, well, if I tried harder, I just, I think people are what they're like. So then it becomes making your, your life smaller and like, be great to your wife and kid and your friends and your coworkers and, but I don't have the best, uh, affect meaning I don't seem nice. I am nice, but that's the funny thing is I don't seem nice. That's the mistake I always made was I thought you were supposed to be nice.

And it's seeming that, um, I, I don't, I was like, I don't, that seems like a bullshit to seem nice. That's phony, right? That's performative and often people pleasing. Yeah. But so I thought not, and again, maybe I'm. i don't i'm not even nice but i think i'm nice i certainly don't my face doesn't reveal that that's part of what's going to the camera is it's like over here i can be myself over here i can do it as a uh a charisma bit right and it's like well that maybe this is this is whatever so yeah i'm into the phase of like what is a life worth living which is seems to be what most of these podcasts are about but um it still seems like people are stuck in optimization even even a thing i'm sure you've recognized which is like a lot of of it's like buddhism stoicism self-optimization and then you can make more money yeah you know and it's like people doing ios people doing mushrooms to make more ultimately to be a better money making machine none of it's about or maybe it's about i mean i genuinely pursued it all for because i felt like i was being either i wasn't approaching life correctly or it just felt like i it was like i don't think this is what my experience is supposed to be i think this is kind of a waste this like general malaise it's what to do and why to do it is where i am so but it but all this stuff about like i felt like i was doing all this stuff thinking oh okay this would be the one and then a couple people text you and you're like fuck you know um or it doesn't change your esteem amongst people and you're like it's like i'm not gonna keep fighting this this fight like if if i didn't do it by now there's nothing i can do there's literally nothing i can do to to make you respect me and i'm also open to the idea that they do and i'm just misinterpreting it on behalf of the 10 happier podcast i want to apologize to you for not having had you on the show earlier no problem and i'm glad we've rectified it this is fucking awesome this is actually most podcasts i do where i yell at the person for not uh having me on their podcast sooner it's a winning strategy it's a wham people love it i liked it no it's fun it is the spirit of it's funny but but people think it's hostile because i don't seem nice i don't say i mean now i do but like i seem like i got you know resting dickface so it's like it comes across as hostile before i let you go just remind everybody the name of your podcast the podcast is called blocks guys some of the my favorite jerry seinfeld was great uh trevor noah was great bill burr was great um they're all they're all but they're all kind of great my friend sam harris was on sam harris yes sam was very good yep um so so yeah everybody listen to blocks everybody watch uh neil's uh three and a half specials on netflix blocks three mics crazy good and what's the half one comedians of the world it's whatever it's a lot of stuff about 2019 me too i think you're awesome thank you buddy coming on thanks for having me appreciate it one last thing before i let you go if you want to listen to this show without ads check out 10 happier plus which is a subscription that is available right inside apple podcasts if you become a subscriber you'll get every episode ad free that's new episodes and all the episodes from our vast 10 year plus archive look for 10 happier plus in apple podcasts and just hit subscribe and a quick heads up if you're already a subscriber to my app 10 with dan harris you've already got access to ad free podcasts ad free listening is baked right into your app subscription along with everything else so please don't pay twice you can check out the app at dan harris.com and you can check out 10 happier plus inside apple podcasts thank you very much for listening to the show i deeply appreciate it see you soon deuces thank you so much to everybody who worked so hard to make this show 10 happier is produced by tara anderson marissa schneiderman dj cashmere david hart and hayden broom our recording and engineering is handled by the great folks over at pod people and nick thorburn of the indie rock band islands wrote our theme thanks for listening peace you're 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