The Program That Built Mind Pump: 10 Years & 100,000 Transformations | Mind Pump 2880

June 15, 2026 31m
Summary published by 1% Better, updated July 9, 2026.
Mind Pump Show
Key Takeaway

Train less, get stronger. The secret to building muscle isn't more volume—it's smarter frequency. Hit each muscle 2-3 times per week with full-body workouts instead of body-part splits. Your muscle-building signal (protein synthesis) peaks 24 hours post-workout and drops to baseline by 48-72 hours. Instead of waiting a week to train that body part again, keep the signal elevated with frequent, lower-volume sessions. Add 5-minute 'trigger sessions' with bands on off days for recovery and sustained growth signals—no gym needed.
Episode Overview

The Mind Pump team reflects on the 10-year journey of MAPS Anabolic, their foundational fitness program that has transformed over 100,000 people. They discuss how the program was born from combining strength training principles, muscle protein synthesis science, and real-world client experience—challenging the high-volume bodybuilder approach with a smarter, lower-frequency model that works for everyday people.
Main Insights

Strength Training Before Steroids Reveals Better Methods

Sal studied how athletes trained in the 'bronze era' before anabolic steroids became prevalent. These lifters achieved remarkable feats of strength and impressive physiques without modern drugs or supplements. Their training methods—focused on lower volume, higher frequency, and compound movements—proved more effective for natural lifters than modern bodybuilding splits designed by chemically-enhanced athletes.
The Muscle Protein Synthesis Window Demands Frequent Training

Muscle protein synthesis (the body's muscle-building signal) spikes 24 hours after training, then drops to baseline by 48-72 hours. Training a muscle once per week leaves 4-5 days below baseline—potentially losing gains. Full-body workouts 2-3 times weekly keep this signal elevated throughout the week, optimizing natural muscle growth without overtraining.
Low-Volume Strength Work Produces the Best Results for Average People

The hosts discovered their everyday clients—not elite athletes—got their best results training just 2-3 days per week with heavy, low-rep work (3-5 reps). This approach builds strength rapidly, creates immediate visible changes, and 'hooks' clients into the process. Starting with a strength phase (phase one) rather than hypertrophy maximizes early wins and client buy-in.
Trigger Sessions Maintain Growth Signals Without Recovery Cost

Five-minute 'trigger sessions' using resistance bands on off-days send low-level muscle-building signals similar to manual laborers who develop muscular body parts from repetitive work. These brief sessions don't create damage or require recovery, but they keep protein synthesis elevated and actually facilitate recovery from heavy training days.
Bodybuilder Programming Fails Most People

Programs designed by or for elite bodybuilders (who are genetic outliers on performance-enhancing drugs) don't work for 99% of trainees. These athletes likely maintain elevated protein synthesis for extended periods and can handle extreme volume. The average person training like a pro bodybuilder will overtrain, under-recover, and see minimal results compared to lower-volume, higher-frequency approaches.
Notable Quotes

"I started to think about some of the blue-collar workers in my family who didn't lift weights. They had no interest in lifting weights, but they had muscular body parts that corresponded to like their work. Like I had mechanics in my family. They all had really muscular forearms."

Sal
"My workouts were really simple and boring, but it was the core lifts. But it was very effective. I mean, my clients were seeing the best results. They were the maybe the least entertained."

Adam
"Two days a week, average client got their best results with good programming two days a week, sometimes three days a week."

Sal
"When I pieced together that if I get them stronger, everything else clicks. Like everything else works. If I can get these people stronger in certain lifts and all lifts and certain lifts over time if I continue to improve their strength, and we work on diet and stuff like that, things work."

Sal
"I know that because of that, just from the novelty side, if I wanted to get this girl to be bought into what I'm about to teach her, I'm going to show her like rapid strength gains and her body change right away. Well, what's the best way to do that? Take her out of something she's never done before, give her long rest periods, get her to lift heavier weight than she ever did, and in 2-3 weeks she's going to be like, 'Holy crap, I feel a different.'"

Adam
Action Items

Suggested exercises inspired by the conversation.
1
Switch to Full-Body Workouts 2-3 Times Per Week
Replace body-part splits with full-body training sessions. Hit each major muscle group multiple times weekly to maintain elevated muscle protein synthesis. This approach builds more muscle with less total volume and better recovery for natural lifters.
2
Start Your Program with a Low-Rep Strength Phase
Begin with 3-5 rep ranges on compound lifts (squats, deadlifts, presses) for 3-4 weeks. This creates rapid strength gains that build confidence and momentum, especially for those new to heavy lifting or returning after time off. The novelty of heavy lifting produces fast visible results.
3
Add 5-Minute Band 'Trigger Sessions' on Off Days
Perform brief resistance band workouts (5 minutes) on rest days targeting muscles trained the previous session. Focus on getting a pump with 15-20 reps per set. This maintains muscle-building signals, aids recovery, and doesn't require gym access.
4
Prioritize Strength Gains Over Soreness and Volume
Track your strength progression (weight lifted, reps completed) rather than seeking extreme soreness or exhaustion. Focus on adding weight to core lifts over time. For most people, getting stronger in fundamental movements produces better body composition changes than high-volume 'burnout' training.
Go deeper

All Mind Pump Show episode guides
Full Transcript
Read or copy the complete episode transcript.
It's been 10 years and over 100,000 It's been 10 years and over 100,000 transformations. It's the most popular transformations. It's the most popular transformations. It's the most popular fitness program that we have here at fitness program that we have here at fitness program that we have here at Mind Pump. Mind Pump. Mind Pump. &gt;&gt; [music] &gt;&gt; [music] &gt;&gt; [music] &gt;&gt; And we're relaunching it with some new &gt;&gt; And we're relaunching it with some new &gt;&gt; And we're relaunching it with some new stuff. So, today's episode we'll talk stuff. So, today's episode we'll talk stuff. So, today's episode we'll talk all about MAPS Anabolic and what we're all about MAPS Anabolic and what we're all about MAPS Anabolic and what we're adding that's new if you want to get the adding that's new if you want to get the adding that's new if you want to get the relaunch. Let's go. relaunch. Let's go. relaunch. Let's go. &gt;&gt; Don't say Don't sell yourself short. &gt;&gt; Don't say Don't sell yourself short. &gt;&gt; Don't say Don't sell yourself short. It's maybe one of the most popular It's maybe one of the most popular It's maybe one of the most popular programs on the internet. programs on the internet. programs on the internet. &gt;&gt; Oh. Cool. &gt;&gt; Oh. Cool. &gt;&gt; Oh. Cool. &gt;&gt; I mean, there's not a lot of Put it up &gt;&gt; I mean, there's not a lot of Put it up &gt;&gt; I mean, there's not a lot of Put it up against any of those against any of those against any of those &gt;&gt; 100,000 100,000 is a is a lot &gt;&gt; 100,000 100,000 is a is a lot &gt;&gt; 100,000 100,000 is a is a lot &gt;&gt; programs, dude. It's a lot a lot of &gt;&gt; programs, dude. It's a lot a lot of &gt;&gt; programs, dude. It's a lot a lot of people that have gone through MAPS people that have gone through MAPS people that have gone through MAPS Anabolic. Um Anabolic. Um Anabolic. Um and for sure I our foundational program. and for sure I our foundational program. and for sure I our foundational program. And what brought us together. And what brought us together. And what brought us together. &gt;&gt; It did. &gt;&gt; It did. &gt;&gt; It did. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; It did bring us together. So, it was 10 &gt;&gt; It did bring us together. So, it was 10 &gt;&gt; It did bring us together. So, it was 10 years ago that we launched it, Doug, but years ago that we launched it, Doug, but years ago that we launched it, Doug, but we When was the program we When was the program we When was the program &gt;&gt; it like 3 years before Almost 3 years &gt;&gt; it like 3 years before Almost 3 years &gt;&gt; it like 3 years before Almost 3 years before that. before that. before that. &gt;&gt; Was it 3 years before that? &gt;&gt; Was it 3 years before that? &gt;&gt; Was it 3 years before that? &gt;&gt; So, yeah, we wrote it in 2013. &gt;&gt; So, yeah, we wrote it in 2013. &gt;&gt; So, yeah, we wrote it in 2013. &gt;&gt; 2013. &gt;&gt; 2013. &gt;&gt; 2013. &gt;&gt; 2013, yeah. &gt;&gt; 2013, yeah. &gt;&gt; 2013, yeah. &gt;&gt; And then we did launch it in 2016. &gt;&gt; And then we did launch it in 2016. &gt;&gt; And then we did launch it in 2016. &gt;&gt; No, we launched it initially in 2013. &gt;&gt; No, we launched it initially in 2013. &gt;&gt; No, we launched it initially in 2013. &gt;&gt; Oh, right. &gt;&gt; Oh, right. &gt;&gt; Oh, right. &gt;&gt; So, we finished it in October 2013. &gt;&gt; So, we finished it in October 2013. &gt;&gt; So, we finished it in October 2013. &gt;&gt; met us. &gt;&gt; met us. &gt;&gt; met us. &gt;&gt; Exactly. &gt;&gt; Exactly. &gt;&gt; Exactly. &gt;&gt; They needed the help. &gt;&gt; They needed the help. &gt;&gt; They needed the help. &gt;&gt; [laughter] &gt;&gt; [laughter] &gt;&gt; [laughter] &gt;&gt; Just to get the word Let's be honest. They were missing Let's be honest. They were missing Justin and I. Justin and I. Justin and I. &gt;&gt; So, in that program, so the way that it &gt;&gt; So, in that program, so the way that it &gt;&gt; So, in that program, so the way that it kind of started kind of started kind of started Doug was my client at the time. So, this Doug was my client at the time. So, this Doug was my client at the time. So, this was way back when I had a a personal was way back when I had a a personal was way back when I had a a personal training studio. training studio. training studio. &gt;&gt; way to way to humble me there. &gt;&gt; way to way to humble me there. &gt;&gt; way to way to humble me there. &gt;&gt; Yeah, I know. &gt;&gt; Yeah, I know. &gt;&gt; Yeah, I know. &gt;&gt; He pulled out P90X. &gt;&gt; He pulled out P90X. &gt;&gt; He pulled out P90X. &gt;&gt; at that. &gt;&gt; at that. &gt;&gt; at that. &gt;&gt; [laughter] &gt;&gt; I mean, you just pulled out like the &gt;&gt; I mean, you just pulled out like the biggest ever, right? biggest ever, right? biggest ever, right? &gt;&gt; Yeah, well, we have a ways to go. Let's &gt;&gt; Yeah, well, we have a ways to go. Let's &gt;&gt; Yeah, well, we have a ways to go. Let's just say just say just say &gt;&gt; much money did they spend marketing &gt;&gt; much money did they spend marketing &gt;&gt; much money did they spend marketing that? that? that? &gt;&gt; Yeah, exactly. &gt;&gt; Yeah, exactly. &gt;&gt; Yeah, exactly. &gt;&gt; 5 million copies. &gt;&gt; 5 million copies. &gt;&gt; 5 million copies. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Boy, boy, that just make a story. &gt;&gt; Boy, boy, that just make a story. &gt;&gt; Boy, boy, that just make a story. &gt;&gt; dominated, yeah. &gt;&gt; dominated, yeah. &gt;&gt; dominated, yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. Well, I you know, I I'll put I'll &gt;&gt; Yeah. Well, I you know, I I'll put I'll &gt;&gt; Yeah. Well, I you know, I I'll put I'll put I mean, we'll put MAPS Anabolic up put I mean, we'll put MAPS Anabolic up put I mean, we'll put MAPS Anabolic up against any of those. against any of those. against any of those. &gt;&gt; Oh, yeah. Quality. &gt;&gt; Oh, yeah. Quality. &gt;&gt; Oh, yeah. Quality. &gt;&gt; If it was if results, I'd like to see I &gt;&gt; If it was if results, I'd like to see I &gt;&gt; If it was if results, I'd like to see I bet I bet we go bet I bet we go bet I bet we go &gt;&gt; There you go. &gt;&gt; There you go. &gt;&gt; There you go. &gt;&gt; Absolutely. But yeah, I remember so year &gt;&gt; Absolutely. But yeah, I remember so year &gt;&gt; Absolutely. But yeah, I remember so year it was a long time ago. So, 2013's when it was a long time ago. So, 2013's when it was a long time ago. So, 2013's when we created it. So, probably a year we created it. So, probably a year we created it. So, probably a year before that I was training Doug. He was before that I was training Doug. He was before that I was training Doug. He was my client. my client. my client. And he approached me and said, "Hey, if And he approached me and said, "Hey, if And he approached me and said, "Hey, if you ever want to sell anything online you ever want to sell anything online you ever want to sell anything online fitness related, fitness related, fitness related, um I have a little bit of internet um I have a little bit of internet um I have a little bit of internet marketing experience. So, marketing experience. So, marketing experience. So, &gt;&gt; Weren't you already kind of dabbling in &gt;&gt; Weren't you already kind of dabbling in &gt;&gt; Weren't you already kind of dabbling in writing and and doing the program, writing and and doing the program, writing and and doing the program, though? though? though? &gt;&gt; No. &gt;&gt; No. &gt;&gt; No. &gt;&gt; Oh, you weren't? &gt;&gt; Oh, you weren't? &gt;&gt; Oh, you weren't? &gt;&gt; No, so I had come up with the theories &gt;&gt; No, so I had come up with the theories &gt;&gt; No, so I had come up with the theories around Maps and Anabolics. At this around Maps and Anabolics. At this around Maps and Anabolics. At this point, I'd been training people for a point, I'd been training people for a point, I'd been training people for a long time. long time. long time. And I'd come to a a lot of different And I'd come to a a lot of different And I'd come to a a lot of different conclusions on what works. I had read conclusions on what works. I had read conclusions on what works. I had read uh, Dinosaur Training was a book that I uh, Dinosaur Training was a book that I uh, Dinosaur Training was a book that I read. Uh, I understood bodybuilding read. Uh, I understood bodybuilding read. Uh, I understood bodybuilding training, of course. Uh, I'd studied training, of course. Uh, I'd studied training, of course. Uh, I'd studied powerlifting programming. powerlifting programming. powerlifting programming. Um, and uh, and then I'd also looked at Um, and uh, and then I'd also looked at Um, and uh, and then I'd also looked at um, you know, bronze era uh, strength um, you know, bronze era uh, strength um, you know, bronze era uh, strength training. Like, how how training. Like, how how training. Like, how how &gt;&gt; Yeah, how Starting Strength was another &gt;&gt; Yeah, how Starting Strength was another &gt;&gt; Yeah, how Starting Strength was another one. one. one. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; And how uh, people strength trained &gt;&gt; And how uh, people strength trained &gt;&gt; And how uh, people strength trained before before before essentially before anabolic steroids essentially before anabolic steroids essentially before anabolic steroids became a thing. Cuz I think anabolic I I became a thing. Cuz I think anabolic I I became a thing. Cuz I think anabolic I I know this, that anabolic steroids skewed know this, that anabolic steroids skewed know this, that anabolic steroids skewed what proper strength training looks what proper strength training looks what proper strength training looks like. Because the people that tend to like. Because the people that tend to like. Because the people that tend to popularize strength training popularize strength training popularize strength training are the people that look are the people that look are the people that look &gt;&gt; They're getting the most of it, right? &gt;&gt; They're getting the most of it, right? &gt;&gt; They're getting the most of it, right? &gt;&gt; Yeah. And so, when anabolic steroid uh, &gt;&gt; Yeah. And so, when anabolic steroid uh, &gt;&gt; Yeah. And so, when anabolic steroid uh, kind of entered the fray, kind of entered the fray, kind of entered the fray, strength training started to look strength training started to look strength training started to look different. So, I said, How did guys and different. So, I said, How did guys and different. So, I said, How did guys and girls work out before steroids were girls work out before steroids were girls work out before steroids were invented? And when I read up on these invented? And when I read up on these invented? And when I read up on these people, first off, people, first off, people, first off, the feats of strength that they the feats of strength that they the feats of strength that they performed were remarkable. Uh, I mean, performed were remarkable. Uh, I mean, performed were remarkable. Uh, I mean, they didn't have protein powder back they didn't have protein powder back they didn't have protein powder back then, let alone anabolic steroids. But, then, let alone anabolic steroids. But, then, let alone anabolic steroids. But, you know, I'm talking about one-arm bent you know, I'm talking about one-arm bent you know, I'm talking about one-arm bent press with 300 lb and incredible-looking press with 300 lb and incredible-looking press with 300 lb and incredible-looking physiques. physiques. physiques. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; And they all kind of trained in a &gt;&gt; And they all kind of trained in a &gt;&gt; And they all kind of trained in a similar way. similar way. similar way. Um, and so, when Doug approached me, Um, and so, when Doug approached me, Um, and so, when Doug approached me, uh, I initially I thought to myself, uh, I initially I thought to myself, uh, I initially I thought to myself, like, what would I uh, what would I put like, what would I uh, what would I put like, what would I uh, what would I put together? And it just so happened right together? And it just so happened right together? And it just so happened right after that, after that, after that, I had read I had read I had read &gt;&gt; this &gt;&gt; this &gt;&gt; this &gt;&gt; study from the New Eng- New England &gt;&gt; study from the New Eng- New England &gt;&gt; study from the New Eng- New England Journal of Medicine that uh, we've Journal of Medicine that uh, we've Journal of Medicine that uh, we've quoted on the show uh, in the past. quoted on the show uh, in the past. quoted on the show uh, in the past. And in this study, And in this study, And in this study, they had three groups of people, three they had three groups of people, three they had three groups of people, three groups of men that they compared um, in groups of men that they compared um, in groups of men that they compared um, in terms of muscle growth. And there was terms of muscle growth. And there was terms of muscle growth. And there was group one was a group of guys that group one was a group of guys that group one was a group of guys that lifted weights. Group two was a group of lifted weights. Group two was a group of lifted weights. Group two was a group of guy that lifted weights plus took guy that lifted weights plus took guy that lifted weights plus took steroids. steroids. steroids. And group three And group three And group three didn't work out at all, but just took didn't work out at all, but just took didn't work out at all, but just took steroids. So, they didn't do any lifting steroids. So, they didn't do any lifting steroids. So, they didn't do any lifting weights, they just took steroids. weights, they just took steroids. weights, they just took steroids. What was about the study was not who got What was about the study was not who got What was about the study was not who got first place. first place. first place. &gt;&gt; Right. &gt;&gt; Right. &gt;&gt; Right. &gt;&gt; As as we would expect, the people that &gt;&gt; As as we would expect, the people that &gt;&gt; As as we would expect, the people that lift the weights and took steroids built lift the weights and took steroids built lift the weights and took steroids built the most muscle. the most muscle. the most muscle. Second place was the group that did Second place was the group that did Second place was the group that did nothing and took steroids. They actually nothing and took steroids. They actually nothing and took steroids. They actually built more muscle built more muscle built more muscle than the group who lifted weights who than the group who lifted weights who than the group who lifted weights who didn't take steroids. Now, it wasn't a didn't take steroids. Now, it wasn't a didn't take steroids. Now, it wasn't a long study. It was like a 90-day study. long study. It was like a 90-day study. long study. It was like a 90-day study. Nonetheless, Nonetheless, Nonetheless, what occurred to me was, what occurred to me was, what occurred to me was, you know, there there's a lot of you know, there there's a lot of you know, there there's a lot of different ways to signal muscle growth, different ways to signal muscle growth, different ways to signal muscle growth, and it's not just, and it's not just, and it's not just, you know, causing damage in the gym or you know, causing damage in the gym or you know, causing damage in the gym or stressing the body with exercise. stressing the body with exercise. stressing the body with exercise. Because in this particular scenario with Because in this particular scenario with Because in this particular scenario with the study, this was a strong hormonal the study, this was a strong hormonal the study, this was a strong hormonal signal. signal. signal. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; So, I started to think of what are the &gt;&gt; So, I started to think of what are the &gt;&gt; So, I started to think of what are the different ways we could signal muscle different ways we could signal muscle different ways we could signal muscle growth aside from the traditional, growth aside from the traditional, growth aside from the traditional, you know, stress that we get from you know, stress that we get from you know, stress that we get from strength training. And the reason why strength training. And the reason why strength training. And the reason why this is important is because although this is important is because although this is important is because although it is the most powerful signal you can it is the most powerful signal you can it is the most powerful signal you can do you can induce aside from taking do you can induce aside from taking do you can induce aside from taking anabolics, which is a stress from anabolics, which is a stress from anabolics, which is a stress from exercise, you're limited. exercise, you're limited. exercise, you're limited. You're limited because you only have so You're limited because you only have so You're limited because you only have so much capacity. much capacity. much capacity. &gt;&gt; You can only handle so much stress. You &gt;&gt; You can only handle so much stress. You &gt;&gt; You can only handle so much stress. You can only recover can only recover can only recover &gt;&gt; So much. &gt;&gt; So much. &gt;&gt; So much. &gt;&gt; and adapt. &gt;&gt; and adapt. &gt;&gt; and adapt. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; So, what are these other things that we &gt;&gt; So, what are these other things that we &gt;&gt; So, what are these other things that we could do? And I also started to think could do? And I also started to think could do? And I also started to think this I remember this is one night I was this I remember this is one night I was this I remember this is one night I was up till like 3:00 a.m. when I was This up till like 3:00 a.m. when I was This up till like 3:00 a.m. when I was This is when I first really put together Maps is when I first really put together Maps is when I first really put together Maps Anabolic. Anabolic. Anabolic. I started to think about some of the I started to think about some of the I started to think about some of the blue-collar workers in my family blue-collar workers in my family blue-collar workers in my family who didn't lift weights. They had no who didn't lift weights. They had no who didn't lift weights. They had no interest in lifting weights, but they interest in lifting weights, but they interest in lifting weights, but they had muscular body parts that had muscular body parts that had muscular body parts that corresponded to like their work. Like I corresponded to like their work. Like I corresponded to like their work. Like I had mechanics in my family. They all had had mechanics in my family. They all had had mechanics in my family. They all had really muscular forearms. I had some really muscular forearms. I had some really muscular forearms. I had some uh mail carriers in my family. They had uh mail carriers in my family. They had uh mail carriers in my family. They had really muscular defined calves. really muscular defined calves. really muscular defined calves. And I thought, you know, what's crazy And I thought, you know, what's crazy And I thought, you know, what's crazy is, you know, I'm sure if you're a is, you know, I'm sure if you're a is, you know, I'm sure if you're a mechanic, mechanic, mechanic, the first year you're sore from twisting the first year you're sore from twisting the first year you're sore from twisting and cranking on wrenches and stuff. But and cranking on wrenches and stuff. But and cranking on wrenches and stuff. But after that, there's no like stress and after that, there's no like stress and after that, there's no like stress and damage. It's the same thing every single damage. It's the same thing every single damage. It's the same thing every single day. day. day. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; But these guys, their forearms look like &gt;&gt; But these guys, their forearms look like &gt;&gt; But these guys, their forearms look like like they lifted weights. like they lifted weights. like they lifted weights. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; So, there's also some other kind of &gt;&gt; So, there's also some other kind of &gt;&gt; So, there's also some other kind of signaling that's happening that doesn't signaling that's happening that doesn't signaling that's happening that doesn't have to do have to do have to do too much with stress. And so, through too much with stress. And so, through too much with stress. And so, through that, that, that, I wrote Maps Anabolic, came up with the I wrote Maps Anabolic, came up with the I wrote Maps Anabolic, came up with the concept of trigger sessions, concept of trigger sessions, concept of trigger sessions, came up with phasing because I knew that came up with phasing because I knew that came up with phasing because I knew that how the body adapted to different, how the body adapted to different, how the body adapted to different, you know, rep ranges and stuff. you know, rep ranges and stuff. you know, rep ranges and stuff. And then Doug and I and I had many And then Doug and I and I had many And then Doug and I and I had many friends of mine test the program out. friends of mine test the program out. friends of mine test the program out. And everybody was just like, this works. And everybody was just like, this works. And everybody was just like, this works. Like I'm getting stronger, I'm building Like I'm getting stronger, I'm building Like I'm getting stronger, I'm building muscle, I feel good. Like this is really muscle, I feel good. Like this is really muscle, I feel good. Like this is really crazy. And when you look at the program crazy. And when you look at the program crazy. And when you look at the program at face value, it looks very simple and at face value, it looks very simple and at face value, it looks very simple and basic. basic. basic. Uh but people gave me tons and tons of Uh but people gave me tons and tons of Uh but people gave me tons and tons of reviews. And this was before reviews. And this was before reviews. And this was before I had brought it to you. I had brought it to you. I had brought it to you. &gt;&gt; Well, yeah, I remember what how that &gt;&gt; Well, yeah, I remember what how that &gt;&gt; Well, yeah, I remember what how that happened and why this is so such a neat happened and why this is so such a neat happened and why this is so such a neat story to me um story to me um story to me um is I'm also, you know, 10 years plus is I'm also, you know, 10 years plus is I'm also, you know, 10 years plus into my career into my career into my career of personal training and uh of personal training and uh of personal training and uh what I'd say finally getting good, you what I'd say finally getting good, you what I'd say finally getting good, you know, uh as a coach and trainer. And know, uh as a coach and trainer. And know, uh as a coach and trainer. And what I mean by that is, you know, you what I mean by that is, you know, you what I mean by that is, you know, you you've probably heard us talk on the you've probably heard us talk on the you've probably heard us talk on the podcast many times of the mistakes that podcast many times of the mistakes that podcast many times of the mistakes that we made of, you know, overtraining our we made of, you know, overtraining our we made of, you know, overtraining our clients to crazy soreness and the the clients to crazy soreness and the the clients to crazy soreness and the the random crazy exercises that we'd do with random crazy exercises that we'd do with random crazy exercises that we'd do with them. And so, my workouts were always them. And so, my workouts were always them. And so, my workouts were always just unique and different and just just unique and different and just just unique and different and just teaching them all these different teaching them all these different teaching them all these different exercises. exercises. exercises. And, you know, I went through that phase And, you know, I went through that phase And, you know, I went through that phase for several years before I started to for several years before I started to for several years before I started to realize that how ineffective it was. realize that how ineffective it was. realize that how ineffective it was. And it started to get to a place where And it started to get to a place where And it started to get to a place where my workouts were really simple and my workouts were really simple and my workouts were really simple and boring, but it was the core lifts. boring, but it was the core lifts. boring, but it was the core lifts. &gt;&gt; And it was very effective. &gt;&gt; And it was very effective. &gt;&gt; And it was very effective. &gt;&gt; But it was very effective. I mean, my &gt;&gt; But it was very effective. I mean, my &gt;&gt; But it was very effective. I mean, my clients were seeing the best results. clients were seeing the best results. clients were seeing the best results. They were the maybe the least They were the maybe the least They were the maybe the least entertained entertained entertained &gt;&gt; Mhm. &gt;&gt; Mhm. &gt;&gt; Mhm. &gt;&gt; um because I and and and I probably had &gt;&gt; um because I and and and I probably had &gt;&gt; um because I and and and I probably had to deal with a lot of this like, is this to deal with a lot of this like, is this to deal with a lot of this like, is this all we're going to do, you know, or and all we're going to do, you know, or and all we're going to do, you know, or and just trust me, this is we get good at just trust me, this is we get good at just trust me, this is we get good at this, we get strong at this. Um this is this, we get strong at this. Um this is this, we get strong at this. Um this is what's going to build your metabolism, what's going to build your metabolism, what's going to build your metabolism, this is what's going to change your this is what's going to change your this is what's going to change your body. Don't worry, I'm going to teach body. Don't worry, I'm going to teach body. Don't worry, I'm going to teach you all I'd always sell them on that. you all I'd always sell them on that. you all I'd always sell them on that. Like, don't worry, I'm going to teach Like, don't worry, I'm going to teach Like, don't worry, I'm going to teach you all kinds of other stuff first, but you all kinds of other stuff first, but you all kinds of other stuff first, but we need to lay the right I always use we need to lay the right I always use we need to lay the right I always use the house analogy of like, this is the house analogy of like, this is the house analogy of like, this is laying the foundation and and so I I laying the foundation and and so I I laying the foundation and and so I I started to understand that how important started to understand that how important started to understand that how important this was to program, especially early this was to program, especially early this was to program, especially early on, which is we get a lot of clients on, which is we get a lot of clients on, which is we get a lot of clients like that that are either returning like that that are either returning like that that are either returning athletes, they're 50 years old, they athletes, they're 50 years old, they athletes, they're 50 years old, they refer to themselves as ex-athletes who refer to themselves as ex-athletes who refer to themselves as ex-athletes who who worked out when you know, they were who worked out when you know, they were who worked out when you know, they were in high school and played sports and in high school and played sports and in high school and played sports and then then they're out of shape, or then then they're out of shape, or then then they're out of shape, or people that have never lifted weights. people that have never lifted weights. people that have never lifted weights. I'd say those are the most common I'd say those are the most common I'd say those are the most common clients that you get. And what served clients that you get. And what served clients that you get. And what served them best was really dialing in and them best was really dialing in and them best was really dialing in and training and getting good at these core training and getting good at these core training and getting good at these core four or five lifts four or five lifts four or five lifts &gt;&gt; Mhm. &gt;&gt; Mhm. &gt;&gt; Mhm. &gt;&gt; and then building on the and layering on &gt;&gt; and then building on the and layering on &gt;&gt; and then building on the and layering on that. And so I'm just starting to figure that. And so I'm just starting to figure that. And so I'm just starting to figure this out, like almost 10 years into my this out, like almost 10 years into my this out, like almost 10 years into my career. And that switch is clicking for career. And that switch is clicking for career. And that switch is clicking for me. And meanwhile, you and I start to me. And meanwhile, you and I start to me. And meanwhile, you and I start to get connected through mutual friends. get connected through mutual friends. get connected through mutual friends. Yet, we had heard about each other Yet, we had heard about each other Yet, we had heard about each other before. So I knew of before. So I knew of before. So I knew of you know, who you were and you know, we you know, who you were and you know, we you know, who you were and you know, we worked for the same company, but it was worked for the same company, but it was worked for the same company, but it was a massive company, so you could easily a massive company, so you could easily a massive company, so you could easily not see each other. And I knew you were not see each other. And I knew you were not see each other. And I knew you were a top performer. I knew that a top performer. I knew that a top performer. I knew that we had mutual friends that we were very we had mutual friends that we were very we had mutual friends that we were very respected in the space, right? Some of respected in the space, right? Some of respected in the space, right? Some of the best of the best in the fitness the best of the best in the fitness the best of the best in the fitness space. space. space. And so when you had connected with me on And so when you had connected with me on And so when you had connected with me on Facebook, you know, I was curious to Facebook, you know, I was curious to Facebook, you know, I was curious to what you were had to say and we what you were had to say and we what you were had to say and we obviously we connected on the cannabis obviously we connected on the cannabis obviously we connected on the cannabis thing because of your story with your thing because of your story with your thing because of your story with your mother-in-law and everything you went mother-in-law and everything you went mother-in-law and everything you went through and that was the initial through and that was the initial through and that was the initial connection. And then you shared what you connection. And then you shared what you connection. And then you shared what you and Doug had pieced together. And I and Doug had pieced together. And I and Doug had pieced together. And I believe it was the first promo video or believe it was the first promo video or believe it was the first promo video or what it what was that video? what it what was that video? what it what was that video? &gt;&gt; Yeah, we shot a 30-minute sales video. &gt;&gt; Yeah, we shot a 30-minute sales video. &gt;&gt; Yeah, we shot a 30-minute sales video. &gt;&gt; Infomercial. Infomercial, essentially, &gt;&gt; Infomercial. Infomercial, essentially, &gt;&gt; Infomercial. Infomercial, essentially, yeah. yeah. yeah. &gt;&gt; And I think we can actually make it &gt;&gt; And I think we can actually make it &gt;&gt; And I think we can actually make it available somewhere, so people can watch available somewhere, so people can watch available somewhere, so people can watch it. it. it. &gt;&gt; Oh, I hope so. I want to see a really &gt;&gt; Oh, I hope so. I want to see a really &gt;&gt; Oh, I hope so. I want to see a really young Sal. young Sal. young Sal. &gt;&gt; It was really good. &gt;&gt; It was really good. &gt;&gt; It was really good. &gt;&gt; well done. &gt;&gt; well done. &gt;&gt; well done. &gt;&gt; It was and and and at this time, too, &gt;&gt; It was and and and at this time, too, &gt;&gt; It was and and and at this time, too, remember, this isn't I mean, we we remember, this isn't I mean, we we remember, this isn't I mean, we we started this off talking about P90X, started this off talking about P90X, started this off talking about P90X, right? And so right? And so right? And so you know, this is in the height of you know, this is in the height of you know, this is in the height of Beachbody. And and I and and as I'm Beachbody. And and I and and as I'm Beachbody. And and I and and as I'm aware, I'm becoming aware of my own aware, I'm becoming aware of my own aware, I'm becoming aware of my own shitty programming and how I need to be shitty programming and how I need to be shitty programming and how I need to be programmed. I'm becoming more aware of programmed. I'm becoming more aware of programmed. I'm becoming more aware of all these other shitty programs and I'm all these other shitty programs and I'm all these other shitty programs and I'm going like, this is going like, this is going like, this is &gt;&gt; Well, let's see. That was a lot of my &gt;&gt; Well, let's see. That was a lot of my &gt;&gt; Well, let's see. That was a lot of my experience, you know, seeing the actual experience, you know, seeing the actual experience, you know, seeing the actual programming of it because I was a little programming of it because I was a little programming of it because I was a little worried and concerned worried and concerned worried and concerned initially because I'd seen a lot of the initially because I'd seen a lot of the initially because I'd seen a lot of the programs online were very, especially programs online were very, especially programs online were very, especially the bodybuilder kind of segment and the bodybuilder kind of segment and the bodybuilder kind of segment and hypertrophy, it was pretty ridiculous. hypertrophy, it was pretty ridiculous. hypertrophy, it was pretty ridiculous. There wasn't good programming out there There wasn't good programming out there There wasn't good programming out there to kind of grab [clears throat] onto. to kind of grab [clears throat] onto. to kind of grab [clears throat] onto. And I was in a gym where it was all And I was in a gym where it was all And I was in a gym where it was all serious career trainers. Like I had serious career trainers. Like I had serious career trainers. Like I had finally moved around and jumped around a finally moved around and jumped around a finally moved around and jumped around a lot of different gyms and then landed on lot of different gyms and then landed on lot of different gyms and then landed on this one where everybody like really this one where everybody like really this one where everybody like really knew their [&nbsp;__&nbsp;] and I was like, you knew their [&nbsp;__&nbsp;] and I was like, you knew their [&nbsp;__&nbsp;] and I was like, you know, a bit insecure like trying to get know, a bit insecure like trying to get know, a bit insecure like trying to get back to the core of like what works. back to the core of like what works. back to the core of like what works. Everybody there just cared about getting Everybody there just cared about getting Everybody there just cared about getting strong. And that was the whole consensus strong. And that was the whole consensus strong. And that was the whole consensus and so, you know, kind of peeling and so, you know, kind of peeling and so, you know, kind of peeling through the whole thing, I was looking through the whole thing, I was looking through the whole thing, I was looking I'm like, oh, I'm like, oh, I'm like, oh, this is not what I expected. Like this this is not what I expected. Like this this is not what I expected. Like this is very much about strength and that's is very much about strength and that's is very much about strength and that's what matters and then it kind of, you what matters and then it kind of, you what matters and then it kind of, you know, gets into hypertrophy, but um know, gets into hypertrophy, but um know, gets into hypertrophy, but um yeah, that was like my initial yeah, that was like my initial yeah, that was like my initial impression was like this is a lot impression was like this is a lot impression was like this is a lot different than, you know, what I was different than, you know, what I was different than, you know, what I was expecting. expecting. expecting. &gt;&gt; I was wondering that actually, Justin, &gt;&gt; I was wondering that actually, Justin, &gt;&gt; I was wondering that actually, Justin, cuz I don't I don't know how you were cuz I don't I don't know how you were cuz I don't I don't know how you were introduced. I know Adam introduced you. introduced. I know Adam introduced you. introduced. I know Adam introduced you. So I mean, what's funny about this is So I mean, what's funny about this is So I mean, what's funny about this is the the Maps anabolic story at the the the Maps anabolic story at the the the Maps anabolic story at the beginning, it's really the beginning of beginning, it's really the beginning of beginning, it's really the beginning of Pump. Pump. Pump. &gt;&gt; Mhm. &gt;&gt; Mhm. &gt;&gt; Mhm. &gt;&gt; It's actually the the origin of Mind &gt;&gt; It's actually the the origin of Mind &gt;&gt; It's actually the the origin of Mind Pump. Pump. Pump. &gt;&gt; If it If If it wasn't for that video, &gt;&gt; If it If If it wasn't for that video, &gt;&gt; If it If If it wasn't for that video, because at this time Justin and I are because at this time Justin and I are because at this time Justin and I are kind of doing our own thing. kind of doing our own thing. kind of doing our own thing. &gt;&gt; Yep. &gt;&gt; Yep. &gt;&gt; Yep. &gt;&gt; I'm running the cannabis businesses. I &gt;&gt; I'm running the cannabis businesses. I &gt;&gt; I'm running the cannabis businesses. I got a side thing with him. We're got a side thing with him. We're got a side thing with him. We're building a fitness app and we're doing building a fitness app and we're doing building a fitness app and we're doing our own thing. And so I have no interest our own thing. And so I have no interest our own thing. And so I have no interest in another business. in another business. in another business. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; But when I watched that promo video and &gt;&gt; But when I watched that promo video and &gt;&gt; But when I watched that promo video and I thought this is so good and right now I thought this is so good and right now I thought this is so good and right now the most popular programs on the the most popular programs on the the most popular programs on the internet, to Justin's point and talking internet, to Justin's point and talking internet, to Justin's point and talking about the Beachbody stuff, like about the Beachbody stuff, like about the Beachbody stuff, like a lot of it was crap. It was good a lot of it was crap. It was good a lot of it was crap. It was good marketing though. What they had What marketing though. What they had What marketing though. What they had What they had they had they had What Beachbody and a lot of these these What Beachbody and a lot of these these What Beachbody and a lot of these these these programs that people, you know, these programs that people, you know, these programs that people, you know, revered as great, that were sell sold revered as great, that were sell sold revered as great, that were sell sold millions, Uh, because they did great millions, Uh, because they did great millions, Uh, because they did great marketing. Yeah. They did they weren't marketing. Yeah. They did they weren't marketing. Yeah. They did they weren't great programs. High production. And I great programs. High production. And I great programs. High production. And I and I was aware of that. And then and I was aware of that. And then and I was aware of that. And then I saw this video that you and Doug made I saw this video that you and Doug made I saw this video that you and Doug made and not only did I think you guys did a and not only did I think you guys did a and not only did I think you guys did a good job from a marketing perspective good job from a marketing perspective good job from a marketing perspective like you I think you sold the what you like you I think you sold the what you like you I think you sold the what you sold you made something unsexy sexy to sold you made something unsexy sexy to sold you made something unsexy sexy to me and I'm like this is and I remember me and I'm like this is and I remember me and I'm like this is and I remember going like this is it right here. This going like this is it right here. This going like this is it right here. This is like what will really help people and is like what will really help people and is like what will really help people and actually the way you presented it was actually the way you presented it was actually the way you presented it was digestible and like interesting and I digestible and like interesting and I digestible and like interesting and I thought oh man we have to we have to get thought oh man we have to we have to get thought oh man we have to we have to get together we get all that we and then I together we get all that we and then I together we get all that we and then I was when I said, let's all get together was when I said, let's all get together was when I said, let's all get together and no plan of any business ideas it was and no plan of any business ideas it was and no plan of any business ideas it was just like we're at similar places in our just like we're at similar places in our just like we're at similar places in our careers and understanding around careers and understanding around careers and understanding around training and programming. Let's just see training and programming. Let's just see training and programming. Let's just see if we can help each other. Yeah, let's if we can help each other. Yeah, let's if we can help each other. Yeah, let's see if we can help each other and there see if we can help each other and there see if we can help each other and there was no idea of let's go into business was no idea of let's go into business was no idea of let's go into business because it was just like we we obviously because it was just like we we obviously because it was just like we we obviously have things in common, right? Because we have things in common, right? Because we have things in common, right? Because we connected on the cannabis thing and we connected on the cannabis thing and we connected on the cannabis thing and we connected on the programming thing it connected on the programming thing it connected on the programming thing it was like let's all just get together and was like let's all just get together and was like let's all just get together and I think I remember you saying or we I think I remember you saying or we I think I remember you saying or we talked about you and I and I'm like can talked about you and I and I'm like can talked about you and I and I'm like can I bring my buddy Justin with me? And so I bring my buddy Justin with me? And so I bring my buddy Justin with me? And so that was kind of how it all started was that was kind of how it all started was that was kind of how it all started was let's get in a room together and and let's get in a room together and and let's get in a room together and and just hear each other out. just hear each other out. just hear each other out. &gt;&gt; The reason why cuz I cuz I I I you know, &gt;&gt; The reason why cuz I cuz I I I you know, &gt;&gt; The reason why cuz I cuz I I I you know, taking a step back I had heard of you taking a step back I had heard of you taking a step back I had heard of you through mutual friends as well and when through mutual friends as well and when through mutual friends as well and when we wrote when we came out with a program we wrote when we came out with a program we wrote when we came out with a program created the marketing material wrote out created the marketing material wrote out created the marketing material wrote out the blueprints. So essentially you had the blueprints. So essentially you had the blueprints. So essentially you had the program all done. the program all done. the program all done. I remembered like I don't know what it I remembered like I don't know what it I remembered like I don't know what it was but I thought Adam, I'm going to was but I thought Adam, I'm going to was but I thought Adam, I'm going to show Adam. I've heard good things about show Adam. I've heard good things about show Adam. I've heard good things about him. I want his [snorts] opinion. I had him. I want his [snorts] opinion. I had him. I want his [snorts] opinion. I had no idea of selling anything to you. I no idea of selling anything to you. I no idea of selling anything to you. I had no idea of had no idea of had no idea of working with you. I just thought I want working with you. I just thought I want working with you. I just thought I want your opinion. And so that's what I did I your opinion. And so that's what I did I your opinion. And so that's what I did I sent a message to Adam. I said, hey sent a message to Adam. I said, hey sent a message to Adam. I said, hey can I send you something and get your can I send you something and get your can I send you something and get your opinion? And Adam's you know, always opinion? And Adam's you know, always opinion? And Adam's you know, always open for stuff like that. So I sent it open for stuff like that. So I sent it open for stuff like that. So I sent it to you and then that's when you sent me to you and then that's when you sent me to you and then that's when you sent me a message it's like hey, let's get a message it's like hey, let's get a message it's like hey, let's get together. And then your side of story I together. And then your side of story I together. And then your side of story I you know, I'm not too familiar with you know, I'm not too familiar with you know, I'm not too familiar with Justin because you were Justin because you were Justin because you were I would consider you one of the best I would consider you one of the best I would consider you one of the best workout programmers I've ever met workout programmers I've ever met workout programmers I've ever met especially back then especially back then especially back then because you you were and you were because you you were and you were because you you were and you were surrounded with really really good surrounded with really really good surrounded with really really good coaches and trainers. I'd say you you coaches and trainers. I'd say you you coaches and trainers. I'd say you you were probably in one of the best were probably in one of the best were probably in one of the best studios in the area not one of the if studios in the area not one of the if studios in the area not one of the if not the best. not the best. not the best. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; And so I don't know that so Adam showed &gt;&gt; And so I don't know that so Adam showed &gt;&gt; And so I don't know that so Adam showed it to you before we all met. it to you before we all met. it to you before we all met. &gt;&gt; Yeah, you know and it and I was in that &gt;&gt; Yeah, you know and it and I was in that &gt;&gt; Yeah, you know and it and I was in that headspace. You know how I am. I want to headspace. You know how I am. I want to headspace. You know how I am. I want to hate first before I like. hate first before I like. hate first before I like. &gt;&gt; [laughter] &gt;&gt; [laughter] &gt;&gt; [laughter] &gt;&gt; So I was looking for things to kind of &gt;&gt; So I was looking for things to kind of &gt;&gt; So I was looking for things to kind of pick apart but pick apart but pick apart but no I was actually really impressed no I was actually really impressed no I was actually really impressed and it and it and it cuz again like the the height video and cuz again like the the height video and cuz again like the the height video and all that I was like okay there's there's all that I was like okay there's there's all that I was like okay there's there's something here but I I was worried that something here but I I was worried that something here but I I was worried that it was going to go more towards the the it was going to go more towards the the it was going to go more towards the the over intensity and go into like it was over intensity and go into like it was over intensity and go into like it was either going to be one of those over either going to be one of those over either going to be one of those over intensity ones or it was going to be way intensity ones or it was going to be way intensity ones or it was going to be way too much crazy bodybuilder volume. And too much crazy bodybuilder volume. And too much crazy bodybuilder volume. And yeah and it just was not either of those yeah and it just was not either of those yeah and it just was not either of those things and things and things and and for me again your kind of background and for me again your kind of background and for me again your kind of background of like of like of like dinosaur training you know it's starting dinosaur training you know it's starting dinosaur training you know it's starting strength like I was doing a lot of RKC strength like I was doing a lot of RKC strength like I was doing a lot of RKC and I was learning a lot of like old you and I was learning a lot of like old you and I was learning a lot of like old you know strength methods and I was around a know strength methods and I was around a know strength methods and I was around a lot of trainers that were like very much lot of trainers that were like very much lot of trainers that were like very much into just sports performance but also into just sports performance but also into just sports performance but also just like we just are about strength and just like we just are about strength and just like we just are about strength and like the whole gym you know so it it like the whole gym you know so it it like the whole gym you know so it it actually like was kind of perfect in the actually like was kind of perfect in the actually like was kind of perfect in the sense that it was sense that it was sense that it was simple and I was like oh okay he simple and I was like oh okay he simple and I was like oh okay he actually gets it. actually gets it. actually gets it. &gt;&gt; Well you he was which really cool I mean &gt;&gt; Well you he was which really cool I mean &gt;&gt; Well you he was which really cool I mean you're kind of briefly talking about it you're kind of briefly talking about it you're kind of briefly talking about it but Justin was but Justin was but Justin was such a cool incubator. such a cool incubator. such a cool incubator. I mean for the audience probably I mean for the audience probably I mean for the audience probably actually knows now actually knows now actually knows now &gt;&gt; Oh yeah. &gt;&gt; Oh yeah. &gt;&gt; Oh yeah. &gt;&gt; people like stick mobility &gt;&gt; people like stick mobility &gt;&gt; people like stick mobility &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; It was developed &gt;&gt; It was developed &gt;&gt; It was developed &gt;&gt; Oh you know what's interesting sorry to &gt;&gt; Oh you know what's interesting sorry to &gt;&gt; Oh you know what's interesting sorry to cut you off but like cut you off but like cut you off but like so the first class they ever did and so the first class they ever did and so the first class they ever did and they they run like certifications now they they run like certifications now they they run like certifications now and like all worldwide and whatnot but I and like all worldwide and whatnot but I and like all worldwide and whatnot but I was in that very first class they just was in that very first class they just was in that very first class they just posted a picture the other day. posted a picture the other day. posted a picture the other day. &gt;&gt; Oh really? &gt;&gt; Oh really? &gt;&gt; Oh really? &gt;&gt; I'm in there doing yeah doing the the &gt;&gt; I'm in there doing yeah doing the the &gt;&gt; I'm in there doing yeah doing the the the archer stretch and the archer stretch and the archer stretch and and they developed it and they you know and they developed it and they you know and they developed it and they you know we all kind of riffed and and we all kind of riffed and and we all kind of riffed and and contributed to it and then they just contributed to it and then they just contributed to it and then they just took off with it with this entire took off with it with this entire took off with it with this entire philosophy. philosophy. philosophy. A couple people too like went off to A couple people too like went off to A couple people too like went off to become like trained a lot of UFC become like trained a lot of UFC become like trained a lot of UFC fighters. fighters. fighters. &gt;&gt; to say you had you had guys that were &gt;&gt; to say you had you had guys that were &gt;&gt; to say you had you had guys that were training pro pro fighters. You had rock training pro pro fighters. You had rock training pro pro fighters. You had rock climbing dudes. You had stick mobility. climbing dudes. You had stick mobility. climbing dudes. You had stick mobility. You had sports performance guys. You had sports performance guys. You had sports performance guys. I mean he he had you had a real I mean he he had you had a real I mean he he had you had a real powerlifter guy. I mean powerlifter guy. I mean powerlifter guy. I mean the I remember coming in there and the I remember coming in there and the I remember coming in there and it was it was it was was just and and diverse. was just and and diverse. was just and and diverse. &gt;&gt; Yes. &gt;&gt; Yes. &gt;&gt; Yes. &gt;&gt; You know a lot of times gyms have a &gt;&gt; You know a lot of times gyms have a &gt;&gt; You know a lot of times gyms have a culture culture culture just bought her. It was super unique and just bought her. It was super unique and just bought her. It was super unique and diverse. So you could go in there and diverse. So you could go in there and diverse. So you could go in there and see just all kinds of random cool see just all kinds of random cool see just all kinds of random cool training and really intelligent coaches training and really intelligent coaches training and really intelligent coaches and trainers. and trainers. and trainers. And so and you were there for a while. And so and you were there for a while. And so and you were there for a while. &gt;&gt; I was. Yeah, I was actually lucky. Yeah, &gt;&gt; I was. Yeah, I was actually lucky. Yeah, &gt;&gt; I was. Yeah, I was actually lucky. Yeah, but I mean it was one of those things I but I mean it was one of those things I but I mean it was one of those things I jumped cuz when you're an independent jumped cuz when you're an independent jumped cuz when you're an independent trainer you're always looking for like trainer you're always looking for like trainer you're always looking for like good gyms to kind of bring your clients good gyms to kind of bring your clients good gyms to kind of bring your clients to where everybody's bought in and you to where everybody's bought in and you to where everybody's bought in and you shouldn't get that many places. Like shouldn't get that many places. Like shouldn't get that many places. Like there's just a lot of lazy trainers, a there's just a lot of lazy trainers, a there's just a lot of lazy trainers, a lot of like you know, dysfunction and lot of like you know, dysfunction and lot of like you know, dysfunction and you know, and the owners aren't really you know, and the owners aren't really you know, and the owners aren't really that great and cool. And so I just got that great and cool. And so I just got that great and cool. And so I just got lucky I finally landed on that place and lucky I finally landed on that place and lucky I finally landed on that place and and really I ended up learning a lot and really I ended up learning a lot and really I ended up learning a lot from everybody around. from everybody around. from everybody around. &gt;&gt; Does it still exist? &gt;&gt; Does it still exist? &gt;&gt; Does it still exist? &gt;&gt; It does. I went there. &gt;&gt; It does. I went there. &gt;&gt; It does. I went there. &gt;&gt; Same owner too? &gt;&gt; Same owner too? &gt;&gt; Same owner too? &gt;&gt; Same owner, yeah. &gt;&gt; Same owner, yeah. &gt;&gt; Same owner, yeah. &gt;&gt; Really? &gt;&gt; Really? &gt;&gt; Really? &gt;&gt; Same owner, yeah. And it's it's &gt;&gt; Same owner, yeah. And it's it's &gt;&gt; Same owner, yeah. And it's it's literally like it's like nobody touched literally like it's like nobody touched literally like it's like nobody touched it. Except a lot of the trainers left. it. Except a lot of the trainers left. it. Except a lot of the trainers left. There's some that I still know there, There's some that I still know there, There's some that I still know there, but it's yeah, it's still there. but it's yeah, it's still there. but it's yeah, it's still there. &gt;&gt; Yeah, you you you mentioned strength a &gt;&gt; Yeah, you you you mentioned strength a &gt;&gt; Yeah, you you you mentioned strength a lot Justin. Like one of the game lot Justin. Like one of the game lot Justin. Like one of the game changing things for me as a trainer cuz changing things for me as a trainer cuz changing things for me as a trainer cuz when I I trained mostly everyday people. when I I trained mostly everyday people. when I I trained mostly everyday people. I didn't train athletes. I mean I had I didn't train athletes. I mean I had I didn't train athletes. I mean I had athletes, but 99% of my clients were athletes, but 99% of my clients were athletes, but 99% of my clients were everyday people looking to get fit. everyday people looking to get fit. everyday people looking to get fit. Number one goal was weight loss. Number one goal was weight loss. Number one goal was weight loss. Typically, you know, moms, dads, just Typically, you know, moms, dads, just Typically, you know, moms, dads, just everyday people who want to get fit. And everyday people who want to get fit. And everyday people who want to get fit. And when I pieced together that if I get when I pieced together that if I get when I pieced together that if I get them stronger, everything else clicks. them stronger, everything else clicks. them stronger, everything else clicks. Like everything else works. If I can get Like everything else works. If I can get Like everything else works. If I can get these people stronger in certain lifts these people stronger in certain lifts these people stronger in certain lifts and and all lifts and certain lifts and and and all lifts and certain lifts and and and all lifts and certain lifts and over time if I continue to improve their over time if I continue to improve their over time if I continue to improve their strength, and we work on diet and stuff strength, and we work on diet and stuff strength, and we work on diet and stuff like that, things work. Things just like that, things work. Things just like that, things work. Things just work. Their bodies work. Their work. Their bodies work. Their work. Their bodies work. Their metabolism boosted. They got leaner. metabolism boosted. They got leaner. metabolism boosted. They got leaner. They had no pain. They felt better. And They had no pain. They felt better. And They had no pain. They felt better. And I'm like, I think strength has got to be I'm like, I think strength has got to be I'm like, I think strength has got to be one of the most important things. Even one of the most important things. Even one of the most important things. Even if they're not strength athletes, I got if they're not strength athletes, I got if they're not strength athletes, I got to focus on that. It's going to be one to focus on that. It's going to be one to focus on that. It's going to be one of the most important things. of the most important things. of the most important things. &gt;&gt; That's you're also touching on another &gt;&gt; That's you're also touching on another &gt;&gt; That's you're also touching on another thing, another piece to the secret sauce thing, another piece to the secret sauce thing, another piece to the secret sauce or formula to, you know, MAPS anabolic or formula to, you know, MAPS anabolic or formula to, you know, MAPS anabolic and Mind Pump and everything working the and Mind Pump and everything working the and Mind Pump and everything working the way it did is and something that we all way it did is and something that we all way it did is and something that we all kind of brought to this that was unique. kind of brought to this that was unique. kind of brought to this that was unique. So, kind of to Justin's point, with uh So, kind of to Justin's point, with uh So, kind of to Justin's point, with uh the bodybuilding program cuz there was the bodybuilding program cuz there was the bodybuilding program cuz there was there's some there's some there's some there's a lot of pro bodybuilders that there's a lot of pro bodybuilders that there's a lot of pro bodybuilders that put out programming and stuff that's out put out programming and stuff that's out put out programming and stuff that's out there. But, it was very what what the there. But, it was very what what the there. But, it was very what what the average person doesn't understand is I average person doesn't understand is I average person doesn't understand is I know that Ronnie Coleman looks like know that Ronnie Coleman looks like know that Ronnie Coleman looks like that, but you have no business training that, but you have no business training that, but you have no business training like that. You're nowhere near that like that. You're nowhere near that like that. You're nowhere near that level or taking what he's taking or the level or taking what he's taking or the level or taking what he's taking or the genetic anomaly that he is. So, you genetic anomaly that he is. So, you genetic anomaly that he is. So, you shouldn't be. But, yeah, everybody is shouldn't be. But, yeah, everybody is shouldn't be. But, yeah, everybody is drawn to that because they're famous and drawn to that because they're famous and drawn to that because they're famous and they look a certain way, and so those they look a certain way, and so those they look a certain way, and so those were some of the most popular things were some of the most popular things were some of the most popular things that were out there. And what we had that were out there. And what we had that were out there. And what we had experienced with was like, I never experienced with was like, I never experienced with was like, I never trained one Ronnie Coleman. trained one Ronnie Coleman. trained one Ronnie Coleman. &gt;&gt; No. &gt;&gt; No. &gt;&gt; No. &gt;&gt; [laughter] &gt;&gt; [laughter] &gt;&gt; [laughter] &gt;&gt; Not one. Like And we've between all of &gt;&gt; Not one. Like And we've between all of &gt;&gt; Not one. Like And we've between all of us, thousands of people we've worked us, thousands of people we've worked us, thousands of people we've worked with, right? And they've none none of no with, right? And they've none none of no with, right? And they've none none of no no one and like, you know, I count on no one and like, you know, I count on no one and like, you know, I count on one hand how many collegiate-level one hand how many collegiate-level one hand how many collegiate-level athletes I even got to train. So, most athletes I even got to train. So, most athletes I even got to train. So, most people that that are working out and people that that are working out and people that that are working out and wanting to get in shape are not even wanting to get in shape are not even wanting to get in shape are not even following even even if even if it's following even even if even if it's following even even if even if it's quote-unquote good programming for quote-unquote good programming for quote-unquote good programming for another pro bodybuilder, another pro bodybuilder, another pro bodybuilder, &gt;&gt; It doesn't work. &gt;&gt; It doesn't work. &gt;&gt; It doesn't work. &gt;&gt; it doesn't work for the average person. &gt;&gt; it doesn't work for the average person. &gt;&gt; it doesn't work for the average person. It's not appropriate for where they're It's not appropriate for where they're It's not appropriate for where they're at in their current journey. at in their current journey. at in their current journey. &gt;&gt; And their bodies just don't respond. &gt;&gt; And their bodies just don't respond. &gt;&gt; And their bodies just don't respond. When I had clients who were willing I When I had clients who were willing I When I had clients who were willing I had a lot of these clients, especially had a lot of these clients, especially had a lot of these clients, especially later in my career, who were willing to later in my career, who were willing to later in my career, who were willing to come in as much as I asked them to. They come in as much as I asked them to. They come in as much as I asked them to. They would pay for sessions, and I'll come 5 would pay for sessions, and I'll come 5 would pay for sessions, and I'll come 5 days a week if you need 6 days a week if days a week if you need 6 days a week if days a week if you need 6 days a week if you want. They got their best results 2 you want. They got their best results 2 you want. They got their best results 2 days a week. days a week. days a week. By the way, this episode is brought to By the way, this episode is brought to By the way, this episode is brought to you by a sponsor, you by a sponsor, you by a sponsor, Zbiotics. Zbiotics. Zbiotics. This is a genetically modified probiotic This is a genetically modified probiotic This is a genetically modified probiotic drink that you take when you go and drink that you take when you go and drink that you take when you go and drink. Now, what does it do? Well, it's drink. Now, what does it do? Well, it's drink. Now, what does it do? Well, it's genetically modified bacteria that genetically modified bacteria that genetically modified bacteria that breaks down acetaldehyde. This is one of breaks down acetaldehyde. This is one of breaks down acetaldehyde. This is one of the negative byproducts of alcohol the negative byproducts of alcohol the negative byproducts of alcohol consumption. When consumption. When consumption. When acetaldehyde gets released in the gut, acetaldehyde gets released in the gut, acetaldehyde gets released in the gut, it causes a lot of different problems in it causes a lot of different problems in it causes a lot of different problems in the body. What Zbiotics does is it the body. What Zbiotics does is it the body. What Zbiotics does is it breaks down the acetaldehyde in the gut. breaks down the acetaldehyde in the gut. breaks down the acetaldehyde in the gut. So, you feel, or at least when I use it, So, you feel, or at least when I use it, So, you feel, or at least when I use it, way better. It's a pre-alcohol drink. Go way better. It's a pre-alcohol drink. Go way better. It's a pre-alcohol drink. Go to zbiotics.com. That's zbit to zbiotics.com. That's zbit to zbiotics.com. That's zbit zbiot zbiot zbiot ics.com/mindpump26. Use the code mindpump26 and get 15% Use the code mindpump26 and get 15% off. All right, here comes the show. off. All right, here comes the show. off. All right, here comes the show. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Two days a week, average client got &gt;&gt; Two days a week, average client got &gt;&gt; Two days a week, average client got their best results with good programming their best results with good programming their best results with good programming two days a week, sometimes three days a two days a week, sometimes three days a two days a week, sometimes three days a week. week. week. &gt;&gt; Doug's That's Doug's part of the story. &gt;&gt; Doug's That's Doug's part of the story. &gt;&gt; Doug's That's Doug's part of the story. &gt;&gt; That's right. &gt;&gt; That's right. &gt;&gt; That's right. &gt;&gt; Right? I mean, Doug is a lifelong, &gt;&gt; Right? I mean, Doug is a lifelong, &gt;&gt; Right? I mean, Doug is a lifelong, you know, magazine reader, lifter, you you know, magazine reader, lifter, you you know, magazine reader, lifter, you know, self-experimenting know, self-experimenting know, self-experimenting fitness guy, fitness guy, fitness guy, uh and knowledgeable in his own right, uh and knowledgeable in his own right, uh and knowledgeable in his own right, and he'd been trying to chip away at at and he'd been trying to chip away at at and he'd been trying to chip away at at changing his body composition. And I changing his body composition. And I changing his body composition. And I remember the first thing you did with remember the first thing you did with remember the first thing you did with him was reduce his volume of training. him was reduce his volume of training. him was reduce his volume of training. &gt;&gt; He When he hired me, first of all, he &gt;&gt; He When he hired me, first of all, he &gt;&gt; He When he hired me, first of all, he came to me because he had back pain. came to me because he had back pain. came to me because he had back pain. He got sent to me from a chiropractor. He got sent to me from a chiropractor. He got sent to me from a chiropractor. And he comes in, we start talking. And he comes in, we start talking. And he comes in, we start talking. Doug's like, "All right, cool. How many Doug's like, "All right, cool. How many Doug's like, "All right, cool. How many days a week are we going to work out?" I days a week are we going to work out?" I days a week are we going to work out?" I could have very easily said four days a could have very easily said four days a could have very easily said four days a week. Doug would have been fine. Five week. Doug would have been fine. Five week. Doug would have been fine. Five days a week, he would have been fine. days a week, he would have been fine. days a week, he would have been fine. No, we're doing two. And I remember he No, we're doing two. And I remember he No, we're doing two. And I remember he had a little bit of like skepticism. had a little bit of like skepticism. had a little bit of like skepticism. Like, "Two days a week, is that it?" I Like, "Two days a week, is that it?" I Like, "Two days a week, is that it?" I said, "Just watch what happens, and said, "Just watch what happens, and said, "Just watch what happens, and we'll see." we'll see." we'll see." Two days a week, we followed this kind Two days a week, we followed this kind Two days a week, we followed this kind of programming, this style of of programming, this style of of programming, this style of programming, and Doug went from having programming, and Doug went from having programming, and Doug went from having back pain to deadlifting 400 lbs. back pain to deadlifting 400 lbs. back pain to deadlifting 400 lbs. At a body weight that's well below his, At a body weight that's well below his, At a body weight that's well below his, about 170 lbs or something like that? about 170 lbs or something like that? about 170 lbs or something like that? &gt;&gt; Oh, at the time it was 152 lbs. &gt;&gt; Oh, at the time it was 152 lbs. &gt;&gt; Oh, at the time it was 152 lbs. &gt;&gt; Deadlifting 400 lbs at 150 lbs. &gt;&gt; Deadlifting 400 lbs at 150 lbs. &gt;&gt; Deadlifting 400 lbs at 150 lbs. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; This is a guy with a back pain who &gt;&gt; This is a guy with a back pain who &gt;&gt; This is a guy with a back pain who thought he had bad genetics, by the way. thought he had bad genetics, by the way. thought he had bad genetics, by the way. And if you know Doug now, you know he And if you know Doug now, you know he And if you know Doug now, you know he doesn't have bad genetics. He can build doesn't have bad genetics. He can build doesn't have bad genetics. He can build muscle. But because he had followed that muscle. But because he had followed that muscle. But because he had followed that bodybuilder style programming, which it bodybuilder style programming, which it bodybuilder style programming, which it just doesn't work for the vast majority just doesn't work for the vast majority just doesn't work for the vast majority of people. It just doesn't work. Your of people. It just doesn't work. Your of people. It just doesn't work. Your body will not respond. Now, if you've body will not respond. Now, if you've body will not respond. Now, if you've got crazy genetics and you're on got crazy genetics and you're on got crazy genetics and you're on steroids, maybe. But for the average steroids, maybe. But for the average steroids, maybe. But for the average person, it just doesn't work. And so, I person, it just doesn't work. And so, I person, it just doesn't work. And so, I put this program together. And by the put this program together. And by the put this program together. And by the way, you're the first person to pick up way, you're the first person to pick up way, you're the first person to pick up on something in in Maps Anabolic. Nobody on something in in Maps Anabolic. Nobody on something in in Maps Anabolic. Nobody else picked up on this. else picked up on this. else picked up on this. When you look at Maps Anabolic, it's When you look at Maps Anabolic, it's When you look at Maps Anabolic, it's broken up into three phases. And you broken up into three phases. And you broken up into three phases. And you phase a program typically, uh because phase a program typically, uh because phase a program typically, uh because the body adapts, and you want to move the body adapts, and you want to move the body adapts, and you want to move into a new phase to change the stimulus into a new phase to change the stimulus into a new phase to change the stimulus to get the body moving in another to get the body moving in another to get the body moving in another direction. You also want to build more direction. You also want to build more direction. You also want to build more well-rounded strength, and you want to well-rounded strength, and you want to well-rounded strength, and you want to add different things. But a lot of it add different things. But a lot of it add different things. But a lot of it has to do with avoiding plateaus, okay? has to do with avoiding plateaus, okay? has to do with avoiding plateaus, okay? But I started Maps Anabolic in phase one But I started Maps Anabolic in phase one But I started Maps Anabolic in phase one with a low rep with a low rep with a low rep low rep heavy uh heavy weight phase. So, low rep heavy uh heavy weight phase. So, low rep heavy uh heavy weight phase. So, you're doing like five reps or three you're doing like five reps or three you're doing like five reps or three reps. reps. reps. Nobody picked up on this except for you. Nobody picked up on this except for you. Nobody picked up on this except for you. You got this, and Adam right away saw You got this, and Adam right away saw You got this, and Adam right away saw why Why would you put a phase one in the why Why would you put a phase one in the why Why would you put a phase one in the beginning? And Adam knew right away, beginning? And Adam knew right away, beginning? And Adam knew right away, said, "Oh, cuz most people don't train said, "Oh, cuz most people don't train said, "Oh, cuz most people don't train this way." And right off the gates, by this way." And right off the gates, by this way." And right off the gates, by week two, they're going to see crazy week two, they're going to see crazy week two, they're going to see crazy strength gains cuz they've never done strength gains cuz they've never done strength gains cuz they've never done this, and they're going to be hooked. this, and they're going to be hooked. this, and they're going to be hooked. That was exactly what That was exactly what That was exactly what &gt;&gt; Well, that was another connection that &gt;&gt; Well, that was another connection that &gt;&gt; Well, that was another connection that we had that was a big selling point for we had that was a big selling point for we had that was a big selling point for me cuz this is I reme- remember this me cuz this is I reme- remember this me cuz this is I reme- remember this epiphany. Again, a majority of our epiphany. Again, a majority of our epiphany. Again, a majority of our clients uh over 60% of my clientele were clients uh over 60% of my clientele were clients uh over 60% of my clientele were female. female. female. Most were middle age. Most wanted body Most were middle age. Most wanted body Most were middle age. Most wanted body composition change. Most had never composition change. Most had never composition change. Most had never trained 5 by 5 training. Most had done trained 5 by 5 training. Most had done trained 5 by 5 training. Most had done circuit, circuit class, high reps, maybe circuit, circuit class, high reps, maybe circuit, circuit class, high reps, maybe hypertrophy 10 to 12 reps. Nobody was hypertrophy 10 to 12 reps. Nobody was hypertrophy 10 to 12 reps. Nobody was barbell back squatting, deadlifting, barbell back squatting, deadlifting, barbell back squatting, deadlifting, shoulder pressing five reps. shoulder pressing five reps. shoulder pressing five reps. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; But I knew that because of that, just &gt;&gt; But I knew that because of that, just &gt;&gt; But I knew that because of that, just from the novelty side, if I wanted to from the novelty side, if I wanted to from the novelty side, if I wanted to get this girl to be bought into what I'm get this girl to be bought into what I'm get this girl to be bought into what I'm about to teach her, I'm going to show about to teach her, I'm going to show about to teach her, I'm going to show her like rapid strength gains and her her like rapid strength gains and her her like rapid strength gains and her body change right away. Well, what's the body change right away. Well, what's the body change right away. Well, what's the best way to do that? Take her out of best way to do that? Take her out of best way to do that? Take her out of something she's never done before, something she's never done before, something she's never done before, give her long rest periods, get her to give her long rest periods, get her to give her long rest periods, get her to lift heavier weight than she ever did, lift heavier weight than she ever did, lift heavier weight than she ever did, and in 2-3 weeks she's going to be like, and in 2-3 weeks she's going to be like, and in 2-3 weeks she's going to be like, "Holy crap, I feel a different Her "Holy crap, I feel a different Her "Holy crap, I feel a different Her appetite goes up, her libido all of a appetite goes up, her libido all of a appetite goes up, her libido all of a sudden like And then And then part of sudden like And then And then part of sudden like And then And then part of being a good coach and trainer is being being a good coach and trainer is being being a good coach and trainer is being able to sell yourself on that you know able to sell yourself on that you know able to sell yourself on that you know what you're doing and that I've got this what you're doing and that I've got this what you're doing and that I've got this path laid out for us." path laid out for us." path laid out for us." And so there's always this this And so there's always this this And so there's always this this challenge of giving the client what they challenge of giving the client what they challenge of giving the client what they want and then knowing what's best for want and then knowing what's best for want and then knowing what's best for them, right? And so that they they buy them, right? And so that they they buy them, right? And so that they they buy into the vision. And that's And as a into the vision. And that's And as a into the vision. And that's And as a young trainer, I fell into the trap of young trainer, I fell into the trap of young trainer, I fell into the trap of giving them what they want, which is a giving them what they want, which is a giving them what they want, which is a hard workout and unique exercises. hard workout and unique exercises. hard workout and unique exercises. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Because I knew that's what they wanted. &gt;&gt; Because I knew that's what they wanted. &gt;&gt; Because I knew that's what they wanted. And so that was my value was, "Oh, I And so that was my value was, "Oh, I And so that was my value was, "Oh, I could teach I know all kinds of could teach I know all kinds of could teach I know all kinds of exercises. I know form and technique and exercises. I know form and technique and exercises. I know form and technique and and I can definitely work you out. I can and I can definitely work you out. I can and I can definitely work you out. I can write a a hard program." And so I fell write a a hard program." And so I fell write a a hard program." And so I fell into the trap of trying to appease them into the trap of trying to appease them into the trap of trying to appease them that way. And so now I know that way. And so now I know that way. And so now I know the better pathway, but I'm like, "How the better pathway, but I'm like, "How the better pathway, but I'm like, "How do I sell it to them or get them bought do I sell it to them or get them bought do I sell it to them or get them bought in?" Well, I got to show them results in?" Well, I got to show them results in?" Well, I got to show them results fast. And I know I don't want to do it fast. And I know I don't want to do it fast. And I know I don't want to do it just through burning calories and just through burning calories and just through burning calories and showing them weight loss. Oh, but if showing them weight loss. Oh, but if showing them weight loss. Oh, but if they saw a major strength change in they saw a major strength change in they saw a major strength change in their body change their body change their body change &gt;&gt; felt the skull and they felt things get &gt;&gt; felt the skull and they felt things get &gt;&gt; felt the skull and they felt things get solid. solid. solid. &gt;&gt; And no no there was no faster way for me &gt;&gt; And no no there was no faster way for me &gt;&gt; And no no there was no faster way for me than getting And this is a an than getting And this is a an than getting And this is a an overgeneralization, but it's a majority overgeneralization, but it's a majority overgeneralization, but it's a majority was getting my women to lift heavy was getting my women to lift heavy was getting my women to lift heavy weight for the first time in their weight for the first time in their weight for the first time in their lives. It blew their mind. And so when I lives. It blew their mind. And so when I lives. It blew their mind. And so when I saw that you had laid it out in that saw that you had laid it out in that saw that you had laid it out in that way, I'm like, "Oh, I know what he's way, I'm like, "Oh, I know what he's way, I'm like, "Oh, I know what he's doing here." doing here." doing here." &gt;&gt; That's right. And you know, you're the &gt;&gt; That's right. And you know, you're the &gt;&gt; That's right. And you know, you're the first person to identify that. And by first person to identify that. And by first person to identify that. And by the way, the reason why MAPS Anabolic the way, the reason why MAPS Anabolic the way, the reason why MAPS Anabolic has a pre-phase is precisely because for has a pre-phase is precisely because for has a pre-phase is precisely because for some people you can't start with that some people you can't start with that some people you can't start with that kind of phase. For some people you got kind of phase. For some people you got kind of phase. For some people you got to start by getting your body used to to start by getting your body used to to start by getting your body used to strength training. And so I put a strength training. And so I put a strength training. And so I put a pre-phase in there just to protect those pre-phase in there just to protect those pre-phase in there just to protect those particular clients. particular clients. particular clients. &gt;&gt; Yeah, yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah, yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah, yeah. &gt;&gt; The trigger sessions came later. So the &gt;&gt; The trigger sessions came later. So the &gt;&gt; The trigger sessions came later. So the initial when I first put the program initial when I first put the program initial when I first put the program together, and by the way, I'll touch on together, and by the way, I'll touch on together, and by the way, I'll touch on why it's broken up in a full body split. why it's broken up in a full body split. why it's broken up in a full body split. Why it's 2-3 days a week. Why it's 2-3 days a week. Why it's 2-3 days a week. When you And [snorts] that's you can When you And [snorts] that's you can When you And [snorts] that's you can find these studies now, but back when I find these studies now, but back when I find these studies now, but back when I wrote this, these studies were not like wrote this, these studies were not like wrote this, these studies were not like widely understood. But, what happens widely understood. But, what happens widely understood. But, what happens when you when you build muscle or when when you when you build muscle or when when you when you build muscle or when you lift weights you lift weights you lift weights is we can measure what's called muscle is we can measure what's called muscle is we can measure what's called muscle protein synthesis. We can see the protein synthesis. We can see the protein synthesis. We can see the signal. And that's your body building signal. And that's your body building signal. And that's your body building muscle. Well, that spikes about 24 hours muscle. Well, that spikes about 24 hours muscle. Well, that spikes about 24 hours after you work out, then it quickly after you work out, then it quickly after you work out, then it quickly drops. By 48 to 72 hours down to drops. By 48 to 72 hours down to drops. By 48 to 72 hours down to baseline. If you wait longer, it goes baseline. If you wait longer, it goes baseline. If you wait longer, it goes below baseline. So, what happens your below baseline. So, what happens your below baseline. So, what happens your body will build, body will build, body will build, &gt;&gt; Yep. &gt;&gt; Yep. &gt;&gt; Yep. &gt;&gt; then it'll drop, then your body's like, &gt;&gt; then it'll drop, then your body's like, &gt;&gt; then it'll drop, then your body's like, oh, we don't need this, and then you oh, we don't need this, and then you oh, we don't need this, and then you start to lose a little bit. So, I said, start to lose a little bit. So, I said, start to lose a little bit. So, I said, you know what? Instead of training a you know what? Instead of training a you know what? Instead of training a body part once a week, body part once a week, body part once a week, and again, here we are much later, 13 and again, here we are much later, 13 and again, here we are much later, 13 years later, lots of studies support years later, lots of studies support years later, lots of studies support this. This isn't new now, but back then this. This isn't new now, but back then this. This isn't new now, but back then it was. it was. it was. I thought, why would I hit a body part I thought, why would I hit a body part I thought, why would I hit a body part once a week like the bodybuilders once a week like the bodybuilders once a week like the bodybuilders when I could hit it more frequently, do when I could hit it more frequently, do when I could hit it more frequently, do a full body workout, and maintain a a full body workout, and maintain a a full body workout, and maintain a that muscle protein synthesis signal that muscle protein synthesis signal that muscle protein synthesis signal above baseline. If it goes down after 48 above baseline. If it goes down after 48 above baseline. If it goes down after 48 hours or 72 hours, let's get it to pop hours or 72 hours, let's get it to pop hours or 72 hours, let's get it to pop back up. Now, going back to back up. Now, going back to back up. Now, going back to bodybuilders, well, why do they train bodybuilders, well, why do they train bodybuilders, well, why do they train one body part, you know, a day or once a one body part, you know, a day or once a one body part, you know, a day or once a week? First of all, with those kind of week? First of all, with those kind of week? First of all, with those kind of genetics, I bet we don't have any genetics, I bet we don't have any genetics, I bet we don't have any studies to support this, but I bet you studies to support this, but I bet you studies to support this, but I bet you if we look at their muscle protein if we look at their muscle protein if we look at their muscle protein synthesis signal, it stays elevated for synthesis signal, it stays elevated for synthesis signal, it stays elevated for a long time. a long time. a long time. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; When you're looking at a genetic freak &gt;&gt; When you're looking at a genetic freak &gt;&gt; When you're looking at a genetic freak like a Mr. Olympia or a pro bodybuilder like a Mr. Olympia or a pro bodybuilder like a Mr. Olympia or a pro bodybuilder who builds muscle, who by the way is who builds muscle, who by the way is who builds muscle, who by the way is more muscular than I am when they're not more muscular than I am when they're not more muscular than I am when they're not lifting weights, you can look at lifting weights, you can look at lifting weights, you can look at pictures of Phil Heath pictures of Phil Heath pictures of Phil Heath &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; when he was playing college basketball, &gt;&gt; when he was playing college basketball, &gt;&gt; when he was playing college basketball, &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; far more muscular than I am now. &gt;&gt; far more muscular than I am now. &gt;&gt; far more muscular than I am now. Um, that muscle protein synthesis Um, that muscle protein synthesis Um, that muscle protein synthesis synthesis signal just stays elevated. synthesis signal just stays elevated. synthesis signal just stays elevated. The average person it drops, The average person it drops, The average person it drops, and your body's not trying to build all and your body's not trying to build all and your body's not trying to build all this expensive tissue. this expensive tissue. this expensive tissue. So, that's when I did the full body So, that's when I did the full body So, that's when I did the full body workout or the full body split, and then workout or the full body split, and then workout or the full body split, and then the trigger sessions came in cuz I said, the trigger sessions came in cuz I said, the trigger sessions came in cuz I said, you know what? you know what? you know what? I noticed my blue collar worker family I noticed my blue collar worker family I noticed my blue collar worker family members, they're not breaking muscle members, they're not breaking muscle members, they're not breaking muscle down, they're not sending a loud signal, down, they're not sending a loud signal, down, they're not sending a loud signal, but he's got muscular forearms. but he's got muscular forearms. but he's got muscular forearms. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Does low-level kind of signaling &gt;&gt; Does low-level kind of signaling &gt;&gt; Does low-level kind of signaling &gt;&gt; Okay. &gt;&gt; Okay. &gt;&gt; Okay. &gt;&gt; keep that up? Can I send a little bit of &gt;&gt; keep that up? Can I send a little bit of &gt;&gt; keep that up? Can I send a little bit of a muscle building signal? a muscle building signal? a muscle building signal? &gt;&gt; Frequent little hits. &gt;&gt; Frequent little hits. &gt;&gt; Frequent little hits. &gt;&gt; Yeah, and and also on top of it like &gt;&gt; Yeah, and and also on top of it like &gt;&gt; Yeah, and and also on top of it like it's not damaging. In fact, trigger it's not damaging. In fact, trigger it's not damaging. In fact, trigger sessions actually help with recovery. sessions actually help with recovery. sessions actually help with recovery. &gt;&gt; And I had experiences with &gt;&gt; And I had experiences with &gt;&gt; And I had experiences with with this as a kid where I would work with this as a kid where I would work with this as a kid where I would work out a body part, it would get sore, when out a body part, it would get sore, when out a body part, it would get sore, when I go hang out with my buddies, and I was I go hang out with my buddies, and I was I go hang out with my buddies, and I was always afraid of moving the muscle always afraid of moving the muscle always afraid of moving the muscle because I didn't want to lose gains, but because I didn't want to lose gains, but because I didn't want to lose gains, but sometimes you get carried away. You want sometimes you get carried away. You want sometimes you get carried away. You want to go hang out with your buddies. Then I to go hang out with your buddies. Then I to go hang out with your buddies. Then I come home and be like, "Well, I'm not come home and be like, "Well, I'm not come home and be like, "Well, I'm not I'm not as sore. I was riding my bike. I'm not as sore. I was riding my bike. I'm not as sore. I was riding my bike. My legs aren't as sore." Huh, that's My legs aren't as sore." Huh, that's My legs aren't as sore." Huh, that's kind of weird. Never put two and two kind of weird. Never put two and two kind of weird. Never put two and two together. But the little signals from together. But the little signals from together. But the little signals from the trigger sessions help maintain the the trigger sessions help maintain the the trigger sessions help maintain the theory was will help maintain this kind theory was will help maintain this kind theory was will help maintain this kind of muscle protein synthesis signal and of muscle protein synthesis signal and of muscle protein synthesis signal and getting a little bit of a pump, getting getting a little bit of a pump, getting getting a little bit of a pump, getting the blood flow the blood flow the blood flow &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; in and out of the muscle. That's when I &gt;&gt; in and out of the muscle. That's when I &gt;&gt; in and out of the muscle. That's when I added the trigger sessions, and I used added the trigger sessions, and I used added the trigger sessions, and I used bands. The reason why I put bands in bands. The reason why I put bands in bands. The reason why I put bands in there initially was because of the there initially was because of the there initially was because of the convenience. I said, "If I'm going to convenience. I said, "If I'm going to convenience. I said, "If I'm going to have people do have people do have people do 5-minute little pump sessions on their 5-minute little pump sessions on their 5-minute little pump sessions on their off days, they're not going to be next off days, they're not going to be next off days, they're not going to be next to a gym." to a gym." to a gym." &gt;&gt; It's less damaging, yeah. &gt;&gt; It's less damaging, yeah. &gt;&gt; It's less damaging, yeah. &gt;&gt; And and &gt;&gt; And and &gt;&gt; And and &gt;&gt; That was the plus. The plus was when I &gt;&gt; That was the plus. The plus was when I &gt;&gt; That was the plus. The plus was when I did it with bands, like, "Wait a minute, did it with bands, like, "Wait a minute, did it with bands, like, "Wait a minute, this is even better." this is even better." this is even better." &gt;&gt; Mhm. &gt;&gt; Mhm. &gt;&gt; Mhm. &gt;&gt; It's not damaging. It's actually &gt;&gt; It's not damaging. It's actually &gt;&gt; It's not damaging. It's actually facilitating recovery cuz damage cuz facilitating recovery cuz damage cuz facilitating recovery cuz damage cuz bands just don't cause as much damage. bands just don't cause as much damage. bands just don't cause as much damage. And that's when the whole program came And that's when the whole program came And that's when the whole program came together. And when I tested it, and I together. And when I tested it, and I together. And when I tested it, and I sent it to probably 15 of my friends, sent it to probably 15 of my friends, sent it to probably 15 of my friends, some of them were personal trainers, some of them were personal trainers, some of them were personal trainers, others were just whatever, some were others were just whatever, some were others were just whatever, some were clients. Doug was, you know, one of the clients. Doug was, you know, one of the clients. Doug was, you know, one of the people. Everybody kept reporting back, people. Everybody kept reporting back, people. Everybody kept reporting back, like, "I I have never seen progress like like, "I I have never seen progress like like, "I I have never seen progress like like the result the like the result the like the result the the way that people were responding was the way that people were responding was the way that people were responding was so encouraging. Then I sent it to you. so encouraging. Then I sent it to you. so encouraging. Then I sent it to you. We all got together. We met. We decided We all got together. We met. We decided We all got together. We met. We decided to start Mind Pump, and we didn't sell to start Mind Pump, and we didn't sell to start Mind Pump, and we didn't sell Anabolic Anabolic Anabolic &gt;&gt; for a whole year. &gt;&gt; for a whole year. &gt;&gt; for a whole year. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; The program was done, was ready to go. &gt;&gt; The program was done, was ready to go. &gt;&gt; The program was done, was ready to go. And just for people listening right now, And just for people listening right now, And just for people listening right now, the reason why we never sold Maps the reason why we never sold Maps the reason why we never sold Maps Anabolic in that first year was not Anabolic in that first year was not Anabolic in that first year was not because we didn't have the program, was because we didn't have the program, was because we didn't have the program, was because we wanted people to know that we because we wanted people to know that we because we wanted people to know that we knew what we were talking about. We knew what we were talking about. We knew what we were talking about. We wanted to build authority, and we wanted wanted to build authority, and we wanted wanted to build authority, and we wanted to build value. We wanted to give away to build value. We wanted to give away to build value. We wanted to give away knowledge and value and help people. And knowledge and value and help people. And knowledge and value and help people. And when it got to the point where people when it got to the point where people when it got to the point where people were like, "Can you guys please create a were like, "Can you guys please create a were like, "Can you guys please create a program or do something?" It's like, "We program or do something?" It's like, "We program or do something?" It's like, "We got one for you." Yeah. And then we got one for you." Yeah. And then we got one for you." Yeah. And then we launched MAPS Anabolic and it just until launched MAPS Anabolic and it just until launched MAPS Anabolic and it just until this day it's the most popular uh this day it's the most popular uh this day it's the most popular uh program that we have. program that we have. program that we have. &gt;&gt; far. It's It's by far the most popular &gt;&gt; far. It's It's by far the most popular &gt;&gt; far. It's It's by far the most popular that we have. And and still fun. I love that we have. And and still fun. I love that we have. And and still fun. I love uh there's still some skepticism when uh there's still some skepticism when uh there's still some skepticism when people buy it and they open it up the people buy it and they open it up the people buy it and they open it up the first time. This is not enough. This is first time. This is not enough. This is first time. This is not enough. This is This is Oh, this is for beginners only. This is Oh, this is for beginners only. This is Oh, this is for beginners only. &gt;&gt; Yeah. And then it's always fun to get &gt;&gt; Yeah. And then it's always fun to get &gt;&gt; Yeah. And then it's always fun to get somebody to stick with it and that's why somebody to stick with it and that's why somebody to stick with it and that's why we always tell people like, "Listen, we we always tell people like, "Listen, we we always tell people like, "Listen, we can You can modify it for yourself after can You can modify it for yourself after can You can modify it for yourself after you've run through it one time, but run you've run through it one time, but run you've run through it one time, but run through it the way it's laid out. Just through it the way it's laid out. Just through it the way it's laid out. Just watch." And it always pulls people watch." And it always pulls people watch." And it always pulls people through. through. through. &gt;&gt; going to do cuz it's like the 10-year &gt;&gt; going to do cuz it's like the 10-year &gt;&gt; going to do cuz it's like the 10-year anniversary essentially is we're going anniversary essentially is we're going anniversary essentially is we're going to relaunch it and we added a few to relaunch it and we added a few to relaunch it and we added a few things. So, we did updated female things. So, we did updated female things. So, we did updated female blueprints. So, I made some programming blueprints. So, I made some programming blueprints. So, I made some programming changes, some slight changes for women. changes, some slight changes for women. changes, some slight changes for women. Uh women tend to be more interested in Uh women tend to be more interested in Uh women tend to be more interested in training certain parts of the body, less training certain parts of the body, less training certain parts of the body, less interested in training other parts of interested in training other parts of interested in training other parts of the body. the body. the body. So, the programming can be slightly So, the programming can be slightly So, the programming can be slightly switched or or or moved around a little switched or or or moved around a little switched or or or moved around a little bit and you get this in the female a bit and you get this in the female a bit and you get this in the female a blueprint. We've also updated the blueprint. We've also updated the blueprint. We've also updated the frequently asked questions. Uh so, frequently asked questions. Uh so, frequently asked questions. Uh so, people have questions on trigger people have questions on trigger people have questions on trigger sessions and phasing. So, I updated sessions and phasing. So, I updated sessions and phasing. So, I updated those. We also put in new masterclass those. We also put in new masterclass those. We also put in new masterclass videos. So, these masterclass videos are videos. So, these masterclass videos are videos. So, these masterclass videos are Adam, Justin, and myself breaking down Adam, Justin, and myself breaking down Adam, Justin, and myself breaking down the some of the core lifts. The barbell the some of the core lifts. The barbell the some of the core lifts. The barbell squat, the bench press, the overhead squat, the bench press, the overhead squat, the bench press, the overhead press, the good morning, behind the neck press, the good morning, behind the neck press, the good morning, behind the neck press, you know, type of lifts. Like press, you know, type of lifts. Like press, you know, type of lifts. Like lifts that lifts that lifts that &gt;&gt; More coaching cues. &gt;&gt; More coaching cues. &gt;&gt; More coaching cues. &gt;&gt; need some coaching. &gt;&gt; need some coaching. &gt;&gt; need some coaching. Um and then with the relaunch uh there's Um and then with the relaunch uh there's Um and then with the relaunch uh there's 3 days of live coaching with one of our 3 days of live coaching with one of our 3 days of live coaching with one of our coaches. So, when you enroll in MAPS coaches. So, when you enroll in MAPS coaches. So, when you enroll in MAPS Anabolic, you'll get 3 days of live Anabolic, you'll get 3 days of live Anabolic, you'll get 3 days of live coaching with one of our trainers. Now, coaching with one of our trainers. Now, coaching with one of our trainers. Now, if you already have MAPS Anabolic, if you already have MAPS Anabolic, if you already have MAPS Anabolic, &gt;&gt; All this gets updated, right? &gt;&gt; All this gets updated, right? &gt;&gt; All this gets updated, right? &gt;&gt; It's just going to get updated &gt;&gt; It's just going to get updated &gt;&gt; It's just going to get updated automatically. You don't got to buy a automatically. You don't got to buy a automatically. You don't got to buy a single thing. single thing. single thing. &gt;&gt; You're welcome. &gt;&gt; You're welcome. &gt;&gt; You're welcome. &gt;&gt; We're just going to update your your &gt;&gt; We're just going to update your your &gt;&gt; We're just going to update your your program and you get some of these new program and you get some of these new program and you get some of these new things. But, if you don't have MAPS things. But, if you don't have MAPS things. But, if you don't have MAPS Anabolic, you heard about it, you want Anabolic, you heard about it, you want Anabolic, you heard about it, you want to try it, it's all updated, it's going to try it, it's all updated, it's going to try it, it's all updated, it's going to be 50% off for the relaunch. So, you to be 50% off for the relaunch. So, you to be 50% off for the relaunch. So, you get it for half off. It's the the same get it for half off. It's the the same get it for half off. It's the the same length that it was day one, length that it was day one, length that it was day one, mapsanabolic.com, mapsanabolic.com, mapsanabolic.com, use the code anabolic, and you'll get use the code anabolic, and you'll get use the code anabolic, and you'll get 50% off. And then you can see what 50% off. And then you can see what 50% off. And then you can see what 100,000 people have already seen, which 100,000 people have already seen, which 100,000 people have already seen, which is phenomenal results. Go check it out.