The Neuroscientists Who Proved Resilience Is a Trainable Skill | Richard Davidson & Cortland Dahl

Richie Davidson, Courtland Doll, welcome Richie Davidson, Courtland Doll, welcome back to the show. Well, in Richie's back to the show. Well, in Richie's back to the show. Well, in Richie's case, welcome back. Court, welcome. case, welcome back. Court, welcome. case, welcome back. Court, welcome. >> Wonderful to be here. >> Wonderful to be here. >> Wonderful to be here. >> Thanks for having us, Dan. >> Thanks for having us, Dan. >> Thanks for having us, Dan. >> It's a pleasure. Uh, well, Richie, let >> It's a pleasure. Uh, well, Richie, let >> It's a pleasure. Uh, well, Richie, let me start with you. Uh, what is me start with you. Uh, what is me start with you. Uh, what is flourishing? That seems to be a central flourishing? That seems to be a central flourishing? That seems to be a central concept in this new book. What do you concept in this new book. What do you concept in this new book. What do you mean by flourishing? Well, what we mean mean by flourishing? Well, what we mean mean by flourishing? Well, what we mean by flourishing is when a person is fully by flourishing is when a person is fully by flourishing is when a person is fully present, is connected to the people and present, is connected to the people and present, is connected to the people and the place around them, has insight into the place around them, has insight into the place around them, has insight into their thoughts and beliefs and their thoughts and beliefs and their thoughts and beliefs and expectations and uh understands how they expectations and uh understands how they expectations and uh understands how they are shaping their perception of the are shaping their perception of the are shaping their perception of the world and has a strong sense of purpose. world and has a strong sense of purpose. world and has a strong sense of purpose. >> Okay. So, you just named four things uh >> Okay. So, you just named four things uh >> Okay. So, you just named four things uh that I want to talk a lot about in the that I want to talk a lot about in the that I want to talk a lot about in the course of this interview, and they course of this interview, and they course of this interview, and they really are part of your healthy minds really are part of your healthy minds really are part of your healthy minds framework. That that is the entirety of framework. That that is the entirety of framework. That that is the entirety of the framework, but I'm going to press the framework, but I'm going to press the framework, but I'm going to press you, not in an attempt to be obnoxious, you, not in an attempt to be obnoxious, you, not in an attempt to be obnoxious, although that's definitely in my although that's definitely in my although that's definitely in my wheelhouse. Um, but just to make make it wheelhouse. Um, but just to make make it wheelhouse. Um, but just to make make it really concrete for people, you know, if really concrete for people, you know, if really concrete for people, you know, if you if you pass if you were on the you if you pass if you were on the you if you pass if you were on the elevator with somebody and had a couple elevator with somebody and had a couple elevator with somebody and had a couple seconds to explain, you know, or to seconds to explain, you know, or to seconds to explain, you know, or to inquire as to whether somebody is inquire as to whether somebody is inquire as to whether somebody is flourishing, flourishing, flourishing, um, how would you make it simple? um, how would you make it simple? um, how would you make it simple? >> That everything is fundamentally okay. >> That everything is fundamentally okay. >> That everything is fundamentally okay. Uh, that anything can come down the pike Uh, that anything can come down the pike Uh, that anything can come down the pike and it's really going to be okay. So and it's really going to be okay. So and it's really going to be okay. So interesting you say that because I have interesting you say that because I have interesting you say that because I have not had many, you know, meditative not had many, you know, meditative not had many, you know, meditative breakthroughs in my life. A few, you breakthroughs in my life. A few, you breakthroughs in my life. A few, you know, big or big to me moments on know, big or big to me moments on know, big or big to me moments on meditation retreats. And the common meditation retreats. And the common meditation retreats. And the common denominator among the maybe three times denominator among the maybe three times denominator among the maybe three times where I've had, you know, notable where I've had, you know, notable where I've had, you know, notable moments in my meditation practice, the moments in my meditation practice, the moments in my meditation practice, the common denominator is a feeling of common denominator is a feeling of common denominator is a feeling of everything's okay. everything's okay. everything's okay. >> That's great. >> That's great. >> That's great. >> There's something. It's counterintuitive >> There's something. It's counterintuitive >> There's something. It's counterintuitive because we look at the world, we look at because we look at the world, we look at because we look at the world, we look at the news, we look at the problems in our the news, we look at the problems in our the news, we look at the problems in our own lives, and fundamental okayness can own lives, and fundamental okayness can own lives, and fundamental okayness can feel either delusional or dangerous and feel either delusional or dangerous and feel either delusional or dangerous and yet somehow actually yet somehow actually yet somehow actually somehow it's it's kind of the truth. somehow it's it's kind of the truth. somehow it's it's kind of the truth. >> Yeah, exactly. I think it's kind of a >> Yeah, exactly. I think it's kind of a >> Yeah, exactly. I think it's kind of a radical stance, if you will. uh uh and radical stance, if you will. uh uh and radical stance, if you will. uh uh and uh it's not denying all of the adversity uh it's not denying all of the adversity uh it's not denying all of the adversity and challenges and challenges and challenges uh and it's also not saying that you're uh and it's also not saying that you're uh and it's also not saying that you're going to be happy all the time. Um it uh going to be happy all the time. Um it uh going to be happy all the time. Um it uh but that you'll be okay. Um uh it's but that you'll be okay. Um uh it's but that you'll be okay. Um uh it's really quite different than that. So uh really quite different than that. So uh really quite different than that. So uh uh it's uh it's a nuanced kind of uh it's uh it's a nuanced kind of uh it's uh it's a nuanced kind of okayessedness if you will. okayessedness if you will. okayessedness if you will. >> Yeah. Yeah. And it seems important to >> Yeah. Yeah. And it seems important to >> Yeah. Yeah. And it seems important to you, and I'm basing this on our past you, and I'm basing this on our past you, and I'm basing this on our past conversations, it seems important to you conversations, it seems important to you conversations, it seems important to you to not get happiness and flourishing to not get happiness and flourishing to not get happiness and flourishing confused. confused. confused. >> Yeah, definitely. Definitely. So, you >> Yeah, definitely. Definitely. So, you >> Yeah, definitely. Definitely. So, you know, it would be if someone lost a know, it would be if someone lost a know, it would be if someone lost a loved one, particularly if they lost loved one, particularly if they lost loved one, particularly if they lost them unexpectedly, them unexpectedly, them unexpectedly, a natural response would be grief. Um, a natural response would be grief. Um, a natural response would be grief. Um, and that would be very appropriate. It and that would be very appropriate. It and that would be very appropriate. It would really be bizarre. and um even would really be bizarre. and um even would really be bizarre. and um even maladaptive in some sense for someone to maladaptive in some sense for someone to maladaptive in some sense for someone to be happy uh in response to that. So, and be happy uh in response to that. So, and be happy uh in response to that. So, and you know, Dan, you and I have both seen you know, Dan, you and I have both seen you know, Dan, you and I have both seen the Daly Lama uh on a number of the Daly Lama uh on a number of the Daly Lama uh on a number of occasions and I he's not happy all the occasions and I he's not happy all the occasions and I he's not happy all the time. Uh but I would say he's time. Uh but I would say he's time. Uh but I would say he's fundamentally okay all the time. fundamentally okay all the time. fundamentally okay all the time. >> Yes, he strikes me as somebody who is >> Yes, he strikes me as somebody who is >> Yes, he strikes me as somebody who is responding appropriately responding appropriately responding appropriately and spontaneously to what's happening at and spontaneously to what's happening at and spontaneously to what's happening at any given moment. any given moment. any given moment. >> Exactly. Court, sorry to neglect you in >> Exactly. Court, sorry to neglect you in >> Exactly. Court, sorry to neglect you in these opening moments. Anything to add these opening moments. Anything to add these opening moments. Anything to add on this notion of flourishing? What what on this notion of flourishing? What what on this notion of flourishing? What what are we missing? are we missing? are we missing? >> Well, I think in very ordinary language, >> Well, I think in very ordinary language, >> Well, I think in very ordinary language, you can just simply think of it as being you can just simply think of it as being you can just simply think of it as being at your best across a range of contexts. at your best across a range of contexts. at your best across a range of contexts. And I think that's the key thing we're And I think that's the key thing we're And I think that's the key thing we're hitting on here is that when you're at hitting on here is that when you're at hitting on here is that when you're at work, it looks like focus. It looks like work, it looks like focus. It looks like work, it looks like focus. It looks like creativity. When you're hanging out with creativity. When you're hanging out with creativity. When you're hanging out with friends, especially if somebody's friends, especially if somebody's friends, especially if somebody's suffering, it looks like empathy and suffering, it looks like empathy and suffering, it looks like empathy and care. If you're at a peak moment of care. If you're at a peak moment of care. If you're at a peak moment of life, you know, when your child is being life, you know, when your child is being life, you know, when your child is being born or you're graduating, then of born or you're graduating, then of born or you're graduating, then of course it might be joy or elation or awe course it might be joy or elation or awe course it might be joy or elation or awe out in nature. And I think that's one of out in nature. And I think that's one of out in nature. And I think that's one of the things that that Richie and I talk the things that that Richie and I talk the things that that Richie and I talk about a lot, we touch upon in the book about a lot, we touch upon in the book about a lot, we touch upon in the book is getting away from the idea of is getting away from the idea of is getting away from the idea of positive and negative emotions, positive positive and negative emotions, positive positive and negative emotions, positive and negative experiences, and just and negative experiences, and just and negative experiences, and just thinking about everything as contextual. thinking about everything as contextual. thinking about everything as contextual. Everything is healthy, unhealthy, Everything is healthy, unhealthy, Everything is healthy, unhealthy, adaptive, maladaptive, really just based adaptive, maladaptive, really just based adaptive, maladaptive, really just based on the where you are, who you're with, on the where you are, who you're with, on the where you are, who you're with, what you're doing. And that's that's a what you're doing. And that's that's a what you're doing. And that's that's a key feature. The other thing that we've key feature. The other thing that we've key feature. The other thing that we've already talked about is viewing this not already talked about is viewing this not already talked about is viewing this not from the point of view of like we're from the point of view of like we're from the point of view of like we're like some massive self-improvement like some massive self-improvement like some massive self-improvement program where we're endlessly trying to program where we're endlessly trying to program where we're endlessly trying to fix ourselves, fix our relationships, fix ourselves, fix our relationships, fix ourselves, fix our relationships, fix the world, but actually we're trying fix the world, but actually we're trying fix the world, but actually we're trying to get in touch with the parts of to get in touch with the parts of to get in touch with the parts of ourselves that were never broken and ourselves that were never broken and ourselves that were never broken and that actually it's easier to do that that actually it's easier to do that that actually it's easier to do that than we think. But a lot of it is is than we think. But a lot of it is is than we think. But a lot of it is is kind of a mindset shift. It's just kind of a mindset shift. It's just kind of a mindset shift. It's just getting out of the problem solution getting out of the problem solution getting out of the problem solution mentality into like, okay, what's mentality into like, okay, what's mentality into like, okay, what's already going on here? And that just already going on here? And that just already going on here? And that just goes back to this this idea of being goes back to this this idea of being goes back to this this idea of being fundamentally okay, which sounds totally fundamentally okay, which sounds totally fundamentally okay, which sounds totally unrealistic when you first hear it. But unrealistic when you first hear it. But unrealistic when you first hear it. But there's something quite important and there's something quite important and there's something quite important and powerful about it from the point of view powerful about it from the point of view powerful about it from the point of view of mental health and flourishing. Well, of mental health and flourishing. Well, of mental health and flourishing. Well, you don't you don't want to talk about you don't you don't want to talk about you don't you don't want to talk about positive or negative emotions and that positive or negative emotions and that positive or negative emotions and that that I I I think I can get behind that, that I I I think I can get behind that, that I I I think I can get behind that, but I want to make sure I understand it but I want to make sure I understand it but I want to make sure I understand it because So, how can you be fundamentally because So, how can you be fundamentally because So, how can you be fundamentally okay, as Richie said, the Daly Lama is okay, as Richie said, the Daly Lama is okay, as Richie said, the Daly Lama is when you're when you're when you're uh experiencing, let's say, a difficult uh experiencing, let's say, a difficult uh experiencing, let's say, a difficult emotion. We won't label it label it good emotion. We won't label it label it good emotion. We won't label it label it good or bad, but a difficult emotion like or bad, but a difficult emotion like or bad, but a difficult emotion like fear or grief. fear or grief. fear or grief. >> Yeah. Richie, actually Richie and I just >> Yeah. Richie, actually Richie and I just >> Yeah. Richie, actually Richie and I just had a a great conversation yesterday had a a great conversation yesterday had a a great conversation yesterday about anxiety and I struggled a lot with about anxiety and I struggled a lot with about anxiety and I struggled a lot with anxiety. In fact, what got me started on anxiety. In fact, what got me started on anxiety. In fact, what got me started on the path of meditation, very similar to the path of meditation, very similar to the path of meditation, very similar to your your story, Dan, when I was a your your story, Dan, when I was a your your story, Dan, when I was a college student, you know, back in the college student, you know, back in the college student, you know, back in the early '9s, I had a genuine phobia of early '9s, I had a genuine phobia of early '9s, I had a genuine phobia of public speaking to the degree that I public speaking to the degree that I public speaking to the degree that I fainted on stage in front of my entire fainted on stage in front of my entire fainted on stage in front of my entire high school. That is a true story. In high school. That is a true story. In high school. That is a true story. In front of all my friends. Not only that, front of all my friends. Not only that, front of all my friends. Not only that, my mom leapt onto stage onto the stage my mom leapt onto stage onto the stage my mom leapt onto stage onto the stage to take care of me. It was perhaps the to take care of me. It was perhaps the to take care of me. It was perhaps the most uncool thing that could ever happen most uncool thing that could ever happen most uncool thing that could ever happen to a teenage boy. So anyways, I was very to a teenage boy. So anyways, I was very to a teenage boy. So anyways, I was very anxious. So I know a lot about anxiety. anxious. So I know a lot about anxiety. anxious. So I know a lot about anxiety. And you might think that there's nothing And you might think that there's nothing And you might think that there's nothing redeeming about anxiety when you're redeeming about anxiety when you're redeeming about anxiety when you're experiencing it. It's just toxic. It experiencing it. It's just toxic. It experiencing it. It's just toxic. It feels horrible. It has such negative feels horrible. It has such negative feels horrible. It has such negative repercussions for one's life. But from repercussions for one's life. But from repercussions for one's life. But from another point of view, what's really another point of view, what's really another point of view, what's really going on with anxiety is it's a going on with anxiety is it's a going on with anxiety is it's a protective mechanism. And in certain protective mechanism. And in certain protective mechanism. And in certain circumstances, circumstances, circumstances, it's exactly what you need. you you need it's exactly what you need. you you need it's exactly what you need. you you need to sort of mentally rehearse a to sort of mentally rehearse a to sort of mentally rehearse a threatening situation so that when threatening situation so that when threatening situation so that when you're in that situation you'll respond you're in that situation you'll respond you're in that situation you'll respond appropriately. The problem is our appropriately. The problem is our appropriately. The problem is our biology just you know switches the biology just you know switches the biology just you know switches the anxiety uh you know reaction on perhaps anxiety uh you know reaction on perhaps anxiety uh you know reaction on perhaps abundantly way more than it needs to. abundantly way more than it needs to. abundantly way more than it needs to. You know it's like we have this big You know it's like we have this big You know it's like we have this big bodyguard that we need sometimes but the bodyguard that we need sometimes but the bodyguard that we need sometimes but the bodyguard is you know accompanying us bodyguard is you know accompanying us bodyguard is you know accompanying us you know when we just want to go to you know when we just want to go to you know when we just want to go to sleep or when we just want to have a sleep or when we just want to have a sleep or when we just want to have a relaxing moment still that protective relaxing moment still that protective relaxing moment still that protective mechanism is kicking into gear. So it's mechanism is kicking into gear. So it's mechanism is kicking into gear. So it's a it's a actually it's a very wholesome a it's a actually it's a very wholesome a it's a actually it's a very wholesome thing and in certain contexts it's thing and in certain contexts it's thing and in certain contexts it's exactly the right thing. It's just that exactly the right thing. It's just that exactly the right thing. It's just that that switch is being flipped way more that switch is being flipped way more that switch is being flipped way more than it needs to be. So a lot of it is than it needs to be. So a lot of it is than it needs to be. So a lot of it is again just switching the view on it. again just switching the view on it. again just switching the view on it. >> Well, I can totally get down with the >> Well, I can totally get down with the >> Well, I can totally get down with the with the switching the view as you as with the switching the view as you as with the switching the view as you as you say on anxiety. It is as our mutual you say on anxiety. It is as our mutual you say on anxiety. It is as our mutual friend Jack Kornfield says, it is the friend Jack Kornfield says, it is the friend Jack Kornfield says, it is the the organism trying to protect itself. the organism trying to protect itself. the organism trying to protect itself. And so I like that. And I I'd just be And so I like that. And I I'd just be And so I like that. And I I'd just be curious to go a click deeper on what it curious to go a click deeper on what it curious to go a click deeper on what it would look like to execute on the would look like to execute on the would look like to execute on the simultaneity of anxiety and fundamental simultaneity of anxiety and fundamental simultaneity of anxiety and fundamental okayness. okayness. okayness. >> That's a great question. I'm sure Richie >> That's a great question. I'm sure Richie >> That's a great question. I'm sure Richie you have a lot to say on this too. I you have a lot to say on this too. I you have a lot to say on this too. I think a lot of it is just the switching think a lot of it is just the switching think a lot of it is just the switching how we relate to it and the four how we relate to it and the four how we relate to it and the four strategies that Richie mentioned are strategies that Richie mentioned are strategies that Richie mentioned are four different ways we can do it. But four different ways we can do it. But four different ways we can do it. But Richie, I'd be curious to hear what you Richie, I'd be curious to hear what you Richie, I'd be curious to hear what you would say about that. would say about that. would say about that. Yeah, I mean I think that um when we Yeah, I mean I think that um when we Yeah, I mean I think that um when we express anxiety in the presence of express anxiety in the presence of express anxiety in the presence of fundamental okayness or for that matter fundamental okayness or for that matter fundamental okayness or for that matter other um difficult emotions, other um difficult emotions, other um difficult emotions, uh there are certain characteristics uh there are certain characteristics uh there are certain characteristics that are associated with them and I that are associated with them and I that are associated with them and I would say one of the hallmark features would say one of the hallmark features would say one of the hallmark features is that the emotions don't they're not is that the emotions don't they're not is that the emotions don't they're not sticky, they're context appropriate. sticky, they're context appropriate. sticky, they're context appropriate. uh and um uh even an emotion like anger, uh and um uh even an emotion like anger, uh and um uh even an emotion like anger, you know, I've seen the Daly Lama be you know, I've seen the Daly Lama be you know, I've seen the Daly Lama be angry. Uh but the next moment just like angry. Uh but the next moment just like angry. Uh but the next moment just like that, he starts laughing at something that, he starts laughing at something that, he starts laughing at something funny. Uh and there's a kind of funny. Uh and there's a kind of funny. Uh and there's a kind of fluidity, a flexibility fluidity, a flexibility fluidity, a flexibility uh and not a proveration. uh and not a proveration. uh and not a proveration. And so when difficult emotions occur in And so when difficult emotions occur in And so when difficult emotions occur in the context of a fundamental okayness, the context of a fundamental okayness, the context of a fundamental okayness, they don't stick. They are serving a they don't stick. They are serving a they don't stick. They are serving a function in the context, but then they function in the context, but then they function in the context, but then they go away. It's like clouds in the sky. go away. It's like clouds in the sky. go away. It's like clouds in the sky. Richie, I'm going to ask a self-centered Richie, I'm going to ask a self-centered Richie, I'm going to ask a self-centered question, abusing my privilege as the question, abusing my privilege as the question, abusing my privilege as the host of the show, but I'm ju I'm really host of the show, but I'm ju I'm really host of the show, but I'm ju I'm really just trying to I'm doing this hopefully just trying to I'm doing this hopefully just trying to I'm doing this hopefully in the service of the listener because in the service of the listener because in the service of the listener because I'm trying to understand it. So I think I'm trying to understand it. So I think I'm trying to understand it. So I think of myself as largely okay and yet there of myself as largely okay and yet there of myself as largely okay and yet there are moments especially with anxiety um are moments especially with anxiety um are moments especially with anxiety um where I lose it. You know I lose the where I lose it. You know I lose the where I lose it. You know I lose the fundamental okayess um like I you know fundamental okayess um like I you know fundamental okayess um like I you know I'm in the city today in New York City I'm in the city today in New York City I'm in the city today in New York City instead of recording this from my home. instead of recording this from my home. instead of recording this from my home. I'm have having to take a lot of I'm have having to take a lot of I'm have having to take a lot of elevators today and it's making me elevators today and it's making me elevators today and it's making me nervous and mostly I can just be with nervous and mostly I can just be with nervous and mostly I can just be with the anxiety and it's not a big deal but the anxiety and it's not a big deal but the anxiety and it's not a big deal but you know I've had a few moments of like you know I've had a few moments of like you know I've had a few moments of like not wanting to get on the elevator just not wanting to get on the elevator just not wanting to get on the elevator just by way of an example. So, can we think by way of an example. So, can we think by way of an example. So, can we think about fundamental okayness as um about fundamental okayness as um about fundamental okayness as um as a spectrum where I h I I I feel like as a spectrum where I h I I I feel like as a spectrum where I h I I I feel like I have a much higher level of I have a much higher level of I have a much higher level of fundamental okayness than I did say 15 fundamental okayness than I did say 15 fundamental okayness than I did say 15 years ago, but it's not perpetual. Am I years ago, but it's not perpetual. Am I years ago, but it's not perpetual. Am I hunting in the right direction with this hunting in the right direction with this hunting in the right direction with this line of questioning? line of questioning? line of questioning? >> Yeah, absolutely. So I think it is >> Yeah, absolutely. So I think it is >> Yeah, absolutely. So I think it is definitely on a continuum and uh this is definitely on a continuum and uh this is definitely on a continuum and uh this is really um I think what uh can change as really um I think what uh can change as really um I think what uh can change as we train our mind and cultivate uh these we train our mind and cultivate uh these we train our mind and cultivate uh these qualities of flourishing qualities of flourishing qualities of flourishing uh and all of us are on a continuum uh uh and all of us are on a continuum uh uh and all of us are on a continuum uh and so uh you know I think it's only the and so uh you know I think it's only the and so uh you know I think it's only the kind of really rare examples like the kind of really rare examples like the kind of really rare examples like the Daly Lama who may be um uh sort of Daly Lama who may be um uh sort of Daly Lama who may be um uh sort of displaying this kind of fundamental displaying this kind of fundamental displaying this kind of fundamental okayness continuously. okayness continuously. okayness continuously. But um you know I see those people as an But um you know I see those people as an But um you know I see those people as an inspiring example of what may be inspiring example of what may be inspiring example of what may be possible but for the rest of us you know possible but for the rest of us you know possible but for the rest of us you know we're on we're on a continuum uh and uh we're on we're on a continuum uh and uh we're on we're on a continuum uh and uh uh I think that that's absolutely uh I think that that's absolutely uh I think that that's absolutely normative normative normative >> and even from a from the point of view >> and even from a from the point of view >> and even from a from the point of view of just a snapshot an experience or even of just a snapshot an experience or even of just a snapshot an experience or even a day like you're saying Dan we're a day like you're saying Dan we're a day like you're saying Dan we're always we're moving back and forth always we're moving back and forth always we're moving back and forth between different experiences and I between different experiences and I between different experiences and I think you can think of almost three think you can think of almost three think you can think of almost three stops along the way of inner experience stops along the way of inner experience stops along the way of inner experience when it comes to relating to anxiety or when it comes to relating to anxiety or when it comes to relating to anxiety or really any difficult experience. The really any difficult experience. The really any difficult experience. The first one which we all know well is first one which we all know well is first one which we all know well is we're just lost in it. If we're angry, we're just lost in it. If we're angry, we're just lost in it. If we're angry, we are the anger. If we're anxious, we we are the anger. If we're anxious, we we are the anger. If we're anxious, we are the anxiety. It's our our field of are the anxiety. It's our our field of are the anxiety. It's our our field of perception is narrowed to the degree perception is narrowed to the degree perception is narrowed to the degree that the anxiety or any emotion, it just that the anxiety or any emotion, it just that the anxiety or any emotion, it just colors the whole field of conscious colors the whole field of conscious colors the whole field of conscious experience. It's just coloring experience. It's just coloring experience. It's just coloring everything. And and just to interject, everything. And and just to interject, everything. And and just to interject, we've used a term that we call we've used a term that we call we've used a term that we call experiential fusion to describe what experiential fusion to describe what experiential fusion to describe what court is is saying. court is is saying. court is is saying. >> I like that term. >> I like that term. >> I like that term. >> Exactly. It's just like you become one >> Exactly. It's just like you become one >> Exactly. It's just like you become one with it. And this is most of what's with it. And this is most of what's with it. And this is most of what's happening in our lives until we start happening in our lives until we start happening in our lives until we start meditating. And then there's this meditating. And then there's this meditating. And then there's this magical shift which basic mindfulness magical shift which basic mindfulness magical shift which basic mindfulness practices are brilliant at helping us uh practices are brilliant at helping us uh practices are brilliant at helping us uh navigate, which is we we we uncouple. navigate, which is we we we uncouple. navigate, which is we we we uncouple. That fusion kind of gets teased apart That fusion kind of gets teased apart That fusion kind of gets teased apart and usually is what it what it starts and usually is what it what it starts and usually is what it what it starts as. You can just be aware of the as. You can just be aware of the as. You can just be aware of the experience. So you like for me as a an experience. So you like for me as a an experience. So you like for me as a an anxious college student, I was doing anxious college student, I was doing anxious college student, I was doing this practice all the time. I would this practice all the time. I would this practice all the time. I would bring my awareness into my body and just bring my awareness into my body and just bring my awareness into my body and just notice what does anxiety actually feel notice what does anxiety actually feel notice what does anxiety actually feel like and just rest like with curiosity like and just rest like with curiosity like and just rest like with curiosity with openness. So that's a huge that's a with openness. So that's a huge that's a with openness. So that's a huge that's a that's a inner revolution just that that's a inner revolution just that that's a inner revolution just that alone. There's something else that alone. There's something else that alone. There's something else that deepens from there which is we start to deepens from there which is we start to deepens from there which is we start to shift into the field of awareness shift into the field of awareness shift into the field of awareness itself. So it's not so much what we are itself. So it's not so much what we are itself. So it's not so much what we are aware of, but into this just open space aware of, but into this just open space aware of, but into this just open space of being itself. And that probably of being itself. And that probably of being itself. And that probably sounds hopelessly abstract and esoteric sounds hopelessly abstract and esoteric sounds hopelessly abstract and esoteric if you haven't practiced this, but it's if you haven't practiced this, but it's if you haven't practiced this, but it's a it's a profound shift. In a word, it's a it's a profound shift. In a word, it's a it's a profound shift. In a word, it's the shift from doing to being. the shift from doing to being. the shift from doing to being. >> And in that space of being, there's all >> And in that space of being, there's all >> And in that space of being, there's all sorts of things that we discover about sorts of things that we discover about sorts of things that we discover about ourselves that we're we're blind to when ourselves that we're we're blind to when ourselves that we're we're blind to when we're contracted into the emotional we're contracted into the emotional we're contracted into the emotional reaction. And that's I think the the reaction. And that's I think the the reaction. And that's I think the the true fundamental okayness is in that true fundamental okayness is in that true fundamental okayness is in that space where we see oh there's this part space where we see oh there's this part space where we see oh there's this part of me of that's available in any moment of me of that's available in any moment of me of that's available in any moment that I can drop into and grow familiar that I can drop into and grow familiar that I can drop into and grow familiar with and there's no problem like with and there's no problem like with and there's no problem like everything else seems inconsequential everything else seems inconsequential everything else seems inconsequential from the point of view of that that that from the point of view of that that that from the point of view of that that that space of being. Again it's abstract but space of being. Again it's abstract but space of being. Again it's abstract but it's incredibly powerful as a practice. it's incredibly powerful as a practice. it's incredibly powerful as a practice. >> Well how accessible is that though? >> Well how accessible is that though? >> Well how accessible is that though? because I started this conversation by because I started this conversation by because I started this conversation by saying I've had three moments in my uh saying I've had three moments in my uh saying I've had three moments in my uh 16-year meditation career, which I know 16-year meditation career, which I know 16-year meditation career, which I know compared to you guys is nothing, but you compared to you guys is nothing, but you compared to you guys is nothing, but you know, it it's it's it's non-trivial for know, it it's it's it's non-trivial for know, it it's it's it's non-trivial for your average person. Um I've had three your average person. Um I've had three your average person. Um I've had three moments usually on day six or seven of a moments usually on day six or seven of a moments usually on day six or seven of a meditation retreat where I've really meditation retreat where I've really meditation retreat where I've really dropped into that sense of fundamental dropped into that sense of fundamental dropped into that sense of fundamental okayness. So this abstract abstruse okayness. So this abstract abstruse okayness. So this abstract abstruse experience that you're describing court experience that you're describing court experience that you're describing court uh how accessible is that to our average uh how accessible is that to our average uh how accessible is that to our average listener? listener? listener? >> I think it's much more accessible than >> I think it's much more accessible than >> I think it's much more accessible than we often think and there are simply we often think and there are simply we often think and there are simply different traditions and different forms different traditions and different forms different traditions and different forms of practice and training that that tend of practice and training that that tend of practice and training that that tend to focus on different things. So there to focus on different things. So there to focus on different things. So there are some and the the ones that Richie are some and the the ones that Richie are some and the the ones that Richie and I are most deeply trained in really and I are most deeply trained in really and I are most deeply trained in really focus a lot on effortless presence and focus a lot on effortless presence and focus a lot on effortless presence and so you you get a a pretty heavy dose of so you you get a a pretty heavy dose of so you you get a a pretty heavy dose of that the quality of being. How do you that the quality of being. How do you that the quality of being. How do you access that? How do you get in touch access that? How do you get in touch access that? How do you get in touch with that? How do you grow familiar with with that? How do you grow familiar with with that? How do you grow familiar with it so you don't lose touch with it? You it so you don't lose touch with it? You it so you don't lose touch with it? You actually get that on day one. I mean actually get that on day one. I mean actually get that on day one. I mean you've you've had Minga Renee on the you've you've had Minga Renee on the you've you've had Minga Renee on the podcast. He teaches that. That's like podcast. He teaches that. That's like podcast. He teaches that. That's like literally the first thing he teaches and literally the first thing he teaches and literally the first thing he teaches and it's always paired with other things cuz it's always paired with other things cuz it's always paired with other things cuz it's hard to stay with that. There's it's hard to stay with that. There's it's hard to stay with that. There's other practices where you don't get to other practices where you don't get to other practices where you don't get to that until much more advanced stages, that until much more advanced stages, that until much more advanced stages, but you get other things that are but you get other things that are but you get other things that are different than that. Like you get deep different than that. Like you get deep different than that. Like you get deep insight into just the the workings of insight into just the the workings of insight into just the the workings of the mind, the causes and conditions that the mind, the causes and conditions that the mind, the causes and conditions that shape experience. So all the traditions shape experience. So all the traditions shape experience. So all the traditions have their own beauty and their own kind have their own beauty and their own kind have their own beauty and their own kind of secret sauce. But for the ones that of secret sauce. But for the ones that of secret sauce. But for the ones that focus on that, I would say you can focus on that, I would say you can focus on that, I would say you can actually get in touch with that pretty actually get in touch with that pretty actually get in touch with that pretty easily. And it just kind of depends on easily. And it just kind of depends on easily. And it just kind of depends on where you're what you're working with in where you're what you're working with in where you're what you're working with in terms of practice. But our mantra, you terms of practice. But our mantra, you terms of practice. But our mantra, you know, Richie, I'm sure we'll hear it out know, Richie, I'm sure we'll hear it out know, Richie, I'm sure we'll hear it out of Richie's mouth a few times in this is of Richie's mouth a few times in this is of Richie's mouth a few times in this is that it's easier than you think and that that it's easier than you think and that that it's easier than you think and that the science really backs that up. the science really backs that up. the science really backs that up. Actually, it's pretty small doses will Actually, it's pretty small doses will Actually, it's pretty small doses will get you there pretty quick. It's just get you there pretty quick. It's just get you there pretty quick. It's just sustaining it is the real practice. sustaining it is the real practice. sustaining it is the real practice. >> So, let me So, you mentioned Mangor >> So, let me So, you mentioned Mangor >> So, let me So, you mentioned Mangor Rimpache, who's an eminent um Rimpache, who's an eminent um Rimpache, who's an eminent um uh Tibetan Buddhist uh teacher. Um, and uh Tibetan Buddhist uh teacher. Um, and uh Tibetan Buddhist uh teacher. Um, and he's been on the show several times. I he's been on the show several times. I he's been on the show several times. I will drop uh some links to his uh will drop uh some links to his uh will drop uh some links to his uh appearances in the show notes if anybody appearances in the show notes if anybody appearances in the show notes if anybody wants to check him out. Um, but he's not wants to check him out. Um, but he's not wants to check him out. Um, but he's not here. So, Court or Rich, whoever wants here. So, Court or Rich, whoever wants here. So, Court or Rich, whoever wants to do it. You said it's easier than you to do it. You said it's easier than you to do it. You said it's easier than you think and it's, you know, you do it on think and it's, you know, you do it on think and it's, you know, you do it on day one. Can you just describe to the day one. Can you just describe to the day one. Can you just describe to the listener so that they um don't have to listener so that they um don't have to listener so that they um don't have to take your word for it. They can uh they take your word for it. They can uh they take your word for it. They can uh they can check it out in their own minds. can check it out in their own minds. can check it out in their own minds. >> Well, should we do it >> Well, should we do it >> Well, should we do it >> or you should you should >> or you should you should >> or you should you should >> Let's do it. Yeah. Let me let me just >> Let's do it. Yeah. Let me let me just >> Let's do it. Yeah. Let me let me just guide a super a super brief kind of guide a super a super brief kind of guide a super a super brief kind of micro practice as we like to say and you micro practice as we like to say and you micro practice as we like to say and you know just as a little taste of this. So know just as a little taste of this. So know just as a little taste of this. So just, you know, for us and for anybody just, you know, for us and for anybody just, you know, for us and for anybody who's listening, tune into your breath. who's listening, tune into your breath. who's listening, tune into your breath. You don't even have to change your You don't even have to change your You don't even have to change your posture. Just imagine you're going about posture. Just imagine you're going about posture. Just imagine you're going about your day. You just notice your breath. your day. You just notice your breath. your day. You just notice your breath. We've all, most of us have probably done We've all, most of us have probably done We've all, most of us have probably done mindful breathing. So just feel the mindful breathing. So just feel the mindful breathing. So just feel the breath. Maybe breathe a little deeper. breath. Maybe breathe a little deeper. breath. Maybe breathe a little deeper. Really feel it coming in and out. Really feel it coming in and out. Really feel it coming in and out. >> And this is safe to do while driving >> And this is safe to do while driving >> And this is safe to do while driving just to say cuz many people are driving. just to say cuz many people are driving. just to say cuz many people are driving. >> Absolutely. You can you can you can the >> Absolutely. You can you can you can the >> Absolutely. You can you can you can the thing that this is not a concentrated thing that this is not a concentrated thing that this is not a concentrated practice. So keep an open spacious practice. So keep an open spacious practice. So keep an open spacious awareness. You're still tuned into your awareness. You're still tuned into your awareness. You're still tuned into your environment. You're just breathing. It's environment. You're just breathing. It's environment. You're just breathing. It's not a lot of efforting in the mind. not a lot of efforting in the mind. not a lot of efforting in the mind. You're just noticing what's going on and You're just noticing what's going on and You're just noticing what's going on and you're including your breathing in that, you're including your breathing in that, you're including your breathing in that, right? You're just noticing that perhaps right? You're just noticing that perhaps right? You're just noticing that perhaps a little little deeper than normal. So, a little little deeper than normal. So, a little little deeper than normal. So, as you do this, start to notice what as you do this, start to notice what as you do this, start to notice what happens very naturally and spontaneously happens very naturally and spontaneously happens very naturally and spontaneously on the exhalation. What you'll feel is on the exhalation. What you'll feel is on the exhalation. What you'll feel is just a little subtle opening, a subtle just a little subtle opening, a subtle just a little subtle opening, a subtle relaxation, just like a little loosening relaxation, just like a little loosening relaxation, just like a little loosening that that happens naturally every time that that happens naturally every time that that happens naturally every time you exhale. It especially happens when you exhale. It especially happens when you exhale. It especially happens when you start noticing that. So just feel you start noticing that. So just feel you start noticing that. So just feel that this is just easing into being. And that this is just easing into being. And that this is just easing into being. And next, notice how at the end of each next, notice how at the end of each next, notice how at the end of each exhalation, exhalation, exhalation, there's just a little gap, a little there's just a little gap, a little there's just a little gap, a little pause before you breathe in again. It's pause before you breathe in again. It's pause before you breathe in again. It's just a like a little natural rest stop just a like a little natural rest stop just a like a little natural rest stop between each cycle of breathing. And between each cycle of breathing. And between each cycle of breathing. And what you can do is just imagine what you can do is just imagine what you can do is just imagine yourself, you're just kind of like yourself, you're just kind of like yourself, you're just kind of like relaxing into that space and just relaxing into that space and just relaxing into that space and just resting there just for a few seconds. resting there just for a few seconds. resting there just for a few seconds. You're not holding your breath. It's not You're not holding your breath. It's not You're not holding your breath. It's not anything that's super intense. And what anything that's super intense. And what anything that's super intense. And what you'll see is that it's the most you'll see is that it's the most you'll see is that it's the most ordinary thing in the world. There's no ordinary thing in the world. There's no ordinary thing in the world. There's no special state of mind that is happening special state of mind that is happening special state of mind that is happening or needs to happen. It's just a little or needs to happen. It's just a little or needs to happen. It's just a little taste of being very ordinary in a sense. taste of being very ordinary in a sense. taste of being very ordinary in a sense. But you can learn to tap into that and But you can learn to tap into that and But you can learn to tap into that and you just rest with that. And then slowly you just rest with that. And then slowly you just rest with that. And then slowly as you grow more familiar with that, as you grow more familiar with that, as you grow more familiar with that, that quality of openness, this that quality of openness, this that quality of openness, this effortless presence, you can just stay effortless presence, you can just stay effortless presence, you can just stay with that even even when the next breath with that even even when the next breath with that even even when the next breath happens. So just try that for a moment. happens. So just try that for a moment. happens. So just try that for a moment. You just relax with the outreath. you You just relax with the outreath. you You just relax with the outreath. you rest there and almost imagine that next rest there and almost imagine that next rest there and almost imagine that next inb breath is just happening within that inb breath is just happening within that inb breath is just happening within that space. There's no effort required. space. There's no effort required. space. There's no effort required. You're not even really meditating in any You're not even really meditating in any You're not even really meditating in any any kind of effortful way. So there's a any kind of effortful way. So there's a any kind of effortful way. So there's a million ways to do this. It's just million ways to do this. It's just million ways to do this. It's just getting used to what it feels like to getting used to what it feels like to getting used to what it feels like to be. And you can do this 100 times be. And you can do this 100 times be. And you can do this 100 times throughout your day and you have a throughout your day and you have a throughout your day and you have a little 100 mini retreats throughout your little 100 mini retreats throughout your little 100 mini retreats throughout your day. Eventually this becomes like a home day. Eventually this becomes like a home day. Eventually this becomes like a home and that's the fundamental okayessedness and that's the fundamental okayessedness and that's the fundamental okayessedness because your home is now the open space because your home is now the open space because your home is now the open space of awareness. that's always there for of awareness. that's always there for of awareness. that's always there for you and then anything else that happens you and then anything else that happens you and then anything else that happens is it's just on the surface. is it's just on the surface. is it's just on the surface. >> Richie, I've been picking on court for a >> Richie, I've been picking on court for a >> Richie, I've been picking on court for a while. Anything you want to jump in and while. Anything you want to jump in and while. Anything you want to jump in and add? add? add? >> Well, I think that um you know the the >> Well, I think that um you know the the >> Well, I think that um you know the the slogan which we're using a lot these slogan which we're using a lot these slogan which we're using a lot these days, it's easier than you think is not days, it's easier than you think is not days, it's easier than you think is not just uh a kind of um ideological claim, just uh a kind of um ideological claim, just uh a kind of um ideological claim, but it's actually based on a whole lot but it's actually based on a whole lot but it's actually based on a whole lot of evidence. of evidence. of evidence. uh uh and so we've done a number of uh uh and so we've done a number of uh uh and so we've done a number of serious randomized control trials, the serious randomized control trials, the serious randomized control trials, the kind of gold standard of uh clinical kind of gold standard of uh clinical kind of gold standard of uh clinical research uh over the last few years research uh over the last few years research uh over the last few years showing that five minutes a day of showing that five minutes a day of showing that five minutes a day of practice like this is sufficient to practice like this is sufficient to practice like this is sufficient to produce measurable changes in our produce measurable changes in our produce measurable changes in our experience, in our behavior, and in our experience, in our behavior, and in our experience, in our behavior, and in our biology. And it's kind of remarkable. biology. And it's kind of remarkable. biology. And it's kind of remarkable. uh 5 minutes a day over the course of uh 5 minutes a day over the course of uh 5 minutes a day over the course of one month. Now this is not to claim that one month. Now this is not to claim that one month. Now this is not to claim that these changes are going to be enduring these changes are going to be enduring these changes are going to be enduring if we stop practicing. Our aspiration of if we stop practicing. Our aspiration of if we stop practicing. Our aspiration of course is that when people taste this course is that when people taste this course is that when people taste this uh they will be motivated to keep doing uh they will be motivated to keep doing uh they will be motivated to keep doing this and it's like brushing your teeth. this and it's like brushing your teeth. this and it's like brushing your teeth. You don't brush your teeth for a month You don't brush your teeth for a month You don't brush your teeth for a month and then stop. Um this is going to be a and then stop. Um this is going to be a and then stop. Um this is going to be a lifelong practice. Uh and so uh but the lifelong practice. Uh and so uh but the lifelong practice. Uh and so uh but the data really show that it's doesn't take data really show that it's doesn't take data really show that it's doesn't take much to get these much to get these much to get these circuits in our mind and our brain circuits in our mind and our brain circuits in our mind and our brain going. And we think it's because we're going. And we think it's because we're going. And we think it's because we're born to flourish that that we actually born to flourish that that we actually born to flourish that that we actually this is part of who we are as humans. this is part of who we are as humans. this is part of who we are as humans. We're we're actually predisposed We're we're actually predisposed We're we're actually predisposed to rest in this kind of way. This is our to rest in this kind of way. This is our to rest in this kind of way. This is our nature. And when we meditate, we're not nature. And when we meditate, we're not nature. And when we meditate, we're not doing anything doing anything doing anything sort of weird with our mind. What we're sort of weird with our mind. What we're sort of weird with our mind. What we're doing is we are getting in touch with doing is we are getting in touch with doing is we are getting in touch with our fundamental nature, becoming more our fundamental nature, becoming more our fundamental nature, becoming more familiar with it. familiar with it. familiar with it. >> My 11-year-old son, I think, would >> My 11-year-old son, I think, would >> My 11-year-old son, I think, would argue, you know, pound the table and argue, you know, pound the table and argue, you know, pound the table and argue that you can brush your teeth for argue that you can brush your teeth for argue that you can brush your teeth for a month and stop. Um but having said a month and stop. Um but having said a month and stop. Um but having said that that that draw a link if you will Richie between draw a link if you will Richie between draw a link if you will Richie between the exercise that court and thank you the exercise that court and thank you the exercise that court and thank you court for uh guided us through and court for uh guided us through and court for uh guided us through and handling our everyday vexations. Yes, I handling our everyday vexations. Yes, I handling our everyday vexations. Yes, I noticed. Oh, yeah. It's it's a it's a I noticed. Oh, yeah. It's it's a it's a I noticed. Oh, yeah. It's it's a it's a I felt calm and awake and aware when he felt calm and awake and aware when he felt calm and awake and aware when he directed me to notice directed me to notice directed me to notice uh that space between the breaths, the uh that space between the breaths, the uh that space between the breaths, the inb breath and the outreath and then to inb breath and the outreath and then to inb breath and the outreath and then to subsequently stay with the next inb subsequently stay with the next inb subsequently stay with the next inb breath. Draw the link for those who breath. Draw the link for those who breath. Draw the link for those who might not understand it to between that might not understand it to between that might not understand it to between that experience and doing life better. experience and doing life better. experience and doing life better. >> Yeah. So, you know, eventually one of >> Yeah. So, you know, eventually one of >> Yeah. So, you know, eventually one of the things we talk about in in our book the things we talk about in in our book the things we talk about in in our book are things that happen every day in life are things that happen every day in life are things that happen every day in life uh to to virtually all of us. So, for uh to to virtually all of us. So, for uh to to virtually all of us. So, for example, humans eat. Um we we need to example, humans eat. Um we we need to example, humans eat. Um we we need to eat to live. So, um eating is a is a eat to live. So, um eating is a is a eat to live. So, um eating is a is a regular part of most people's lives. Uh regular part of most people's lives. Uh regular part of most people's lives. Uh we can use these activities of daily we can use these activities of daily we can use these activities of daily living as reminders living as reminders living as reminders uh to um uh to to do these we we call uh to um uh to to do these we we call uh to um uh to to do these we we call them micro supports or micro practices them micro supports or micro practices them micro supports or micro practices that you can sprinkle throughout your that you can sprinkle throughout your that you can sprinkle throughout your daily life. And we actually have daily life. And we actually have daily life. And we actually have evidence to show that you don't need to evidence to show that you don't need to evidence to show that you don't need to put your butt on the cushion or a chair put your butt on the cushion or a chair put your butt on the cushion or a chair and formally meditate. Um the data show and formally meditate. Um the data show and formally meditate. Um the data show that at least at the beginning stages that at least at the beginning stages that at least at the beginning stages the benefits are as the benefits are as the benefits are as um uh uh as strong if you do these um uh uh as strong if you do these um uh uh as strong if you do these practices actively as you're going about practices actively as you're going about practices actively as you're going about your daily life uh or if you do them your daily life uh or if you do them your daily life uh or if you do them formally as sitting meditation practice formally as sitting meditation practice formally as sitting meditation practice doesn't matter. M doesn't matter. M doesn't matter. M >> uh so you can use these activities of >> uh so you can use these activities of >> uh so you can use these activities of daily living as reminders as um we use daily living as reminders as um we use daily living as reminders as um we use this uh fancy term uh that comes from this uh fancy term uh that comes from this uh fancy term uh that comes from neuroscience neuroscience neuroscience uh which is a zeitgeab. Um a zeitgeab is uh which is a zeitgeab. Um a zeitgeab is uh which is a zeitgeab. Um a zeitgeab is uh something that occurs with biological uh something that occurs with biological uh something that occurs with biological rhythms on a regular daily basis and rhythms on a regular daily basis and rhythms on a regular daily basis and there are social zeitgeabers. So eating there are social zeitgeabers. So eating there are social zeitgeabers. So eating is a social zeitgeabber. Um uh we do is a social zeitgeabber. Um uh we do is a social zeitgeabber. Um uh we do that every day. Brushing your teeth is a that every day. Brushing your teeth is a that every day. Brushing your teeth is a zeitgeab. Um uh and so we can piggy back zeitgeab. Um uh and so we can piggy back zeitgeab. Um uh and so we can piggy back these activities on daily living. And these activities on daily living. And these activities on daily living. And eventually uh you know you brought up eventually uh you know you brought up eventually uh you know you brought up the kind of challenges that we the kind of challenges that we the kind of challenges that we experience in our daily lives. experience in our daily lives. experience in our daily lives. Eventually the challenges themselves Eventually the challenges themselves Eventually the challenges themselves become triggers as reminders. So rather become triggers as reminders. So rather become triggers as reminders. So rather than the challenges being times when you than the challenges being times when you than the challenges being times when you lose it when you are getting hijacked by lose it when you are getting hijacked by lose it when you are getting hijacked by your anxiety or whatever it is um your anxiety or whatever it is um your anxiety or whatever it is um eventually as you practice more and more eventually as you practice more and more eventually as you practice more and more um the anxiety itself can become a um the anxiety itself can become a um the anxiety itself can become a reminder and uh that's when you know you reminder and uh that's when you know you reminder and uh that's when you know you can have this just infuse all of your can have this just infuse all of your can have this just infuse all of your everyday life. I just want to push on everyday life. I just want to push on everyday life. I just want to push on that again and court I'll go back to you that again and court I'll go back to you that again and court I'll go back to you but but I I want to acknowledge I love but but I I want to acknowledge I love but but I I want to acknowledge I love the fact that we can do these free range the fact that we can do these free range the fact that we can do these free range instead of a formal meditation practice. instead of a formal meditation practice. instead of a formal meditation practice. I think that's liberating for a lot of I think that's liberating for a lot of I think that's liberating for a lot of people to hear uh who especially people people to hear uh who especially people people to hear uh who especially people who feel time starved or who just don't who feel time starved or who just don't who feel time starved or who just don't want to fold themselves into the lotus want to fold themselves into the lotus want to fold themselves into the lotus position or whatever it is. So that position or whatever it is. So that position or whatever it is. So that that's great. So I don't mean to brush that's great. So I don't mean to brush that's great. So I don't mean to brush past that and I will come back to it. past that and I will come back to it. past that and I will come back to it. But just on the question of the But just on the question of the But just on the question of the mechanism here court mechanism here court mechanism here court for for all of us who went through your for for all of us who went through your for for all of us who went through your exercise, how how does doing that help exercise, how how does doing that help exercise, how how does doing that help me with fighting with my son over me with fighting with my son over me with fighting with my son over brushing his teeth or fighting with my brushing his teeth or fighting with my brushing his teeth or fighting with my boss over, you know, giving me more work boss over, you know, giving me more work boss over, you know, giving me more work than I can handle, etc., etc. than I can handle, etc., etc. than I can handle, etc., etc. >> This is this is really the central >> This is this is really the central >> This is this is really the central question. So, you know, going back to question. So, you know, going back to question. So, you know, going back to this idea of the really what are the this idea of the really what are the this idea of the really what are the central central central ingredients, you could say, what are the ingredients, you could say, what are the ingredients, you could say, what are the main factors that lead us to flourish in main factors that lead us to flourish in main factors that lead us to flourish in some circumstances and to be some circumstances and to be some circumstances and to be overwhelmed, knocked off balance, not at overwhelmed, knocked off balance, not at overwhelmed, knocked off balance, not at our best in other circumstances. And you our best in other circumstances. And you our best in other circumstances. And you can almost look at this as like four can almost look at this as like four can almost look at this as like four questions. And I think this gets at at, questions. And I think this gets at at, questions. And I think this gets at at, you know, what you're pointing to, Dan. you know, what you're pointing to, Dan. you know, what you're pointing to, Dan. So, in any circumstance, say you're with So, in any circumstance, say you're with So, in any circumstance, say you're with your family and there's a stressful your family and there's a stressful your family and there's a stressful situation or you're at work and you're situation or you're at work and you're situation or you're at work and you're having a tough day, any, you really having a tough day, any, you really having a tough day, any, you really could imagine any circumstance and just could imagine any circumstance and just could imagine any circumstance and just say, "Am I going to be at my best in say, "Am I going to be at my best in say, "Am I going to be at my best in this situation if I am aware and fully this situation if I am aware and fully this situation if I am aware and fully present or if I'm just unfocused and present or if I'm just unfocused and present or if I'm just unfocused and distracted?" Obvious answer. Am I going distracted?" Obvious answer. Am I going distracted?" Obvious answer. Am I going to be The second question, am I going to to be The second question, am I going to to be The second question, am I going to be at my best in this situation if I be at my best in this situation if I be at my best in this situation if I feel connected? If I feel like I'm there feel connected? If I feel like I'm there feel connected? If I feel like I'm there for other people and I feel like they for other people and I feel like they for other people and I feel like they are there for me or am I going to be at are there for me or am I going to be at are there for me or am I going to be at my best if I'm feeling alienated or my best if I'm feeling alienated or my best if I'm feeling alienated or isolated? Obvious question. That's the isolated? Obvious question. That's the isolated? Obvious question. That's the second factor that that we refer to as second factor that that we refer to as second factor that that we refer to as connection. The third one is insight. Am connection. The third one is insight. Am connection. The third one is insight. Am I going to feel better? Am I going to be I going to feel better? Am I going to be I going to feel better? Am I going to be at my best? Why I perform better? If I at my best? Why I perform better? If I at my best? Why I perform better? If I really understand the dynamics of the really understand the dynamics of the really understand the dynamics of the situation, especially the dynamics of my situation, especially the dynamics of my situation, especially the dynamics of my own mind in the moment. If for example, own mind in the moment. If for example, own mind in the moment. If for example, I can see clearly what emotions and I can see clearly what emotions and I can see clearly what emotions and thoughts are playing through my mind and thoughts are playing through my mind and thoughts are playing through my mind and I can see how they're shaping and I can see how they're shaping and I can see how they're shaping and influencing my perception. Again, better influencing my perception. Again, better influencing my perception. Again, better or worse. And lastly, purpose. Am I or worse. And lastly, purpose. Am I or worse. And lastly, purpose. Am I going to feel more on my game if I going to feel more on my game if I going to feel more on my game if I really feel like I'm connected to my really feel like I'm connected to my really feel like I'm connected to my north star in my life? I have clear north star in my life? I have clear north star in my life? I have clear values. I feel like I'm living them. I'm values. I feel like I'm living them. I'm values. I feel like I'm living them. I'm conscious of them. I'm connected to conscious of them. I'm connected to conscious of them. I'm connected to them. Or would I do better if I feel them. Or would I do better if I feel them. Or would I do better if I feel that it's meaningless and I don't have that it's meaningless and I don't have that it's meaningless and I don't have those? These are just obvious questions. those? These are just obvious questions. those? These are just obvious questions. I think what's missing to people is it's I think what's missing to people is it's I think what's missing to people is it's not like we we just feel like we're not like we we just feel like we're not like we we just feel like we're doing well in some circumstances and doing well in some circumstances and doing well in some circumstances and we're not in others, but the ingredients we're not in others, but the ingredients we're not in others, but the ingredients aren't so clear. And it's even less aren't so clear. And it's even less aren't so clear. And it's even less clear. How would we actually practice so clear. How would we actually practice so clear. How would we actually practice so that each of those things happen so that that each of those things happen so that that each of those things happen so that I'm more aware? I'm more connected. I'm I'm more aware? I'm more connected. I'm I'm more aware? I'm more connected. I'm more insightful and wise. I'm more more insightful and wise. I'm more more insightful and wise. I'm more purposeful and I feel things are purposeful and I feel things are purposeful and I feel things are meaningful. These are skills. There's meaningful. These are skills. There's meaningful. These are skills. There's brain mechanisms. There's biology behind brain mechanisms. There's biology behind brain mechanisms. There's biology behind it. It's easier than you think. I think it. It's easier than you think. I think it. It's easier than you think. I think it's just the road map isn't so clear. it's just the road map isn't so clear. it's just the road map isn't so clear. So what we practiced to to just boil it So what we practiced to to just boil it So what we practiced to to just boil it down to a fine point, that was one of down to a fine point, that was one of down to a fine point, that was one of maybe the most fundamental skill in the maybe the most fundamental skill in the maybe the most fundamental skill in the awareness category. And I think what I awareness category. And I think what I awareness category. And I think what I would personally put my my money on is would personally put my my money on is would personally put my my money on is the most bang for your buck in terms of the most bang for your buck in terms of the most bang for your buck in terms of an awareness skill that can just an awareness skill that can just an awareness skill that can just radically change your inner experience. radically change your inner experience. radically change your inner experience. Specifically because these days we have Specifically because these days we have Specifically because these days we have no being in our lives. we are doing 24/7 no being in our lives. we are doing 24/7 no being in our lives. we are doing 24/7 and we're constantly force-feeding our and we're constantly force-feeding our and we're constantly force-feeding our mind information and I'd say that's a mind information and I'd say that's a mind information and I'd say that's a more vital it's always been a vital more vital it's always been a vital more vital it's always been a vital skill but learning how to be and to find skill but learning how to be and to find skill but learning how to be and to find our value and worth as human beings in our value and worth as human beings in our value and worth as human beings in our be in this quality of being I think our be in this quality of being I think our be in this quality of being I think is just a vital skill in the 21st is just a vital skill in the 21st is just a vital skill in the 21st century so but anyways it's I think it century so but anyways it's I think it century so but anyways it's I think it this is equally applicable in all these this is equally applicable in all these this is equally applicable in all these situations it's just the road map we situations it's just the road map we situations it's just the road map we just don't nobody ever gave us the map just don't nobody ever gave us the map just don't nobody ever gave us the map >> and just to just to restate the map for >> and just to just to restate the map for >> and just to just to restate the map for folks and we've said this a few times folks and we've said this a few times folks and we've said this a few times But I just want people to have their But I just want people to have their But I just want people to have their bearings here. The healthy minds bearings here. The healthy minds bearings here. The healthy minds framework, the fra the the the the spine framework, the fra the the the the spine framework, the fra the the the the spine of your new book. Uh it's it consists of of your new book. Uh it's it consists of of your new book. Uh it's it consists of these four pillars. The first is these four pillars. The first is these four pillars. The first is awareness which we've talked about and awareness which we've talked about and awareness which we've talked about and you taught us uh how to train very you taught us uh how to train very you taught us uh how to train very quickly. Um and again it's not a oneand quickly. Um and again it's not a oneand quickly. Um and again it's not a oneand done. We just we it's a uh a move we done. We just we it's a uh a move we done. We just we it's a uh a move we want to integrate into our lives to wake want to integrate into our lives to wake want to integrate into our lives to wake up and be right here right now. Um the up and be right here right now. Um the up and be right here right now. Um the second is connection, the third is second is connection, the third is second is connection, the third is insight or self-nowledge. And the fourth insight or self-nowledge. And the fourth insight or self-nowledge. And the fourth is purpose. Let's just say let's talk a is purpose. Let's just say let's talk a is purpose. Let's just say let's talk a little bit about how we train these little bit about how we train these little bit about how we train these others. Um with connection, we all know others. Um with connection, we all know others. Um with connection, we all know uh you know and this is something I talk uh you know and this is something I talk uh you know and this is something I talk about a lot on the show, we evolved uh about a lot on the show, we evolved uh about a lot on the show, we evolved uh as social animals and yet we've somehow as social animals and yet we've somehow as social animals and yet we've somehow created a world that militates against created a world that militates against created a world that militates against connection at pretty much every turn. connection at pretty much every turn. connection at pretty much every turn. And I don't think it's a coincidence And I don't think it's a coincidence And I don't think it's a coincidence that we have unprecedented levels of that we have unprecedented levels of that we have unprecedented levels of anxiety, depression, suicide, addiction, anxiety, depression, suicide, addiction, anxiety, depression, suicide, addiction, and loneliness. I think largely as a and loneliness. I think largely as a and loneliness. I think largely as a result. Um so how do we operationalize result. Um so how do we operationalize result. Um so how do we operationalize connection and take it beyond sort of connection and take it beyond sort of connection and take it beyond sort of bland exhortation? bland exhortation? bland exhortation? >> Yeah, I mean um I I'm happy to jump in. >> Yeah, I mean um I I'm happy to jump in. >> Yeah, I mean um I I'm happy to jump in. Um connection again we would say is Um connection again we would say is Um connection again we would say is easier than you think. And one of the um easier than you think. And one of the um easier than you think. And one of the um let me actually just back up and first let me actually just back up and first let me actually just back up and first say that in 2023 say that in 2023 say that in 2023 we had a really visionary attorney we had a really visionary attorney we had a really visionary attorney general of the United States who issued general of the United States who issued general of the United States who issued a health advisory, the first time a a health advisory, the first time a a health advisory, the first time a public health official ever issued a public health official ever issued a public health official ever issued a health advisory of that sort in our health advisory of that sort in our health advisory of that sort in our country um on the epidemic of loneliness country um on the epidemic of loneliness country um on the epidemic of loneliness and social isolation. And in that and social isolation. And in that and social isolation. And in that report, Vivec Merti showed evidence that report, Vivec Merti showed evidence that report, Vivec Merti showed evidence that loneliness is actually a greater risk loneliness is actually a greater risk loneliness is actually a greater risk factor for mortality than is smoking 15 factor for mortality than is smoking 15 factor for mortality than is smoking 15 cigarettes a day. So loneliness and cigarettes a day. So loneliness and cigarettes a day. So loneliness and social isolation is not just uh a social isolation is not just uh a social isolation is not just uh a subjective quality of the mind, but it subjective quality of the mind, but it subjective quality of the mind, but it also affects our biology in ways that also affects our biology in ways that also affects our biology in ways that seriously affect our health. Uh so seriously affect our health. Uh so seriously affect our health. Uh so that's um one element important to keep that's um one element important to keep that's um one element important to keep in mind with respect to cultivating this in mind with respect to cultivating this in mind with respect to cultivating this one of the easiest things to do and one of the easiest things to do and one of the easiest things to do and something I do every single day. You something I do every single day. You something I do every single day. You know I have this little practice I do know I have this little practice I do know I have this little practice I do after I meditate where I on work days after I meditate where I on work days after I meditate where I on work days I'll and it takes me about not more than I'll and it takes me about not more than I'll and it takes me about not more than a minute maybe a minute and a half. Uh a minute maybe a minute and a half. Uh a minute maybe a minute and a half. Uh I'll go through my calendar. I did this I'll go through my calendar. I did this I'll go through my calendar. I did this this morning and you're in my mind and this morning and you're in my mind and this morning and you're in my mind and heart Dan. Um, I just go through my heart Dan. Um, I just go through my heart Dan. Um, I just go through my calendar and see what I'm going to be calendar and see what I'm going to be calendar and see what I'm going to be doing that day and just um appreciate doing that day and just um appreciate doing that day and just um appreciate the people I'm meeting with. Uh, really the people I'm meeting with. Uh, really the people I'm meeting with. Uh, really a simple little practice. Think of a simple little practice. Think of a simple little practice. Think of something positive about them and it it something positive about them and it it something positive about them and it it just we are predisposed to feel a just we are predisposed to feel a just we are predisposed to feel a connection. It doesn't take much. Uh, we connection. It doesn't take much. Uh, we connection. It doesn't take much. Uh, we just need to be intentional about how we just need to be intentional about how we just need to be intentional about how we use our minds. Uh and so uh it's readily use our minds. Uh and so uh it's readily use our minds. Uh and so uh it's readily available and it's remarkable. Um we've available and it's remarkable. Um we've available and it's remarkable. Um we've shown in neuroscientific research that shown in neuroscientific research that shown in neuroscientific research that after just a few hours of doing this after just a few hours of doing this after just a few hours of doing this practice over the course of a few weeks, practice over the course of a few weeks, practice over the course of a few weeks, our brains change. We can see measurable our brains change. We can see measurable our brains change. We can see measurable changes in our brain. changes in our brain. changes in our brain. 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Sign up and get 10% off at Sign up and get 10% off at Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/happier. betterhelp.com/happier. betterhelp.com/happier. That's betterhp.com/happier. I'll add another practice. Um, and I I I'll add another practice. Um, and I I don't know what you think of this don't know what you think of this don't know what you think of this research, but I found it compelling. I research, but I found it compelling. I research, but I found it compelling. I don't have a as critical a lens as you don't have a as critical a lens as you don't have a as critical a lens as you do, Richie, but Barb Frederickson's uh do, Richie, but Barb Frederickson's uh do, Richie, but Barb Frederickson's uh research into micro interactions, the research into micro interactions, the research into micro interactions, the power, the massive power, apparently power, the massive power, apparently power, the massive power, apparently massive power of just having pleasant massive power of just having pleasant massive power of just having pleasant passing interactions with the barista, passing interactions with the barista, passing interactions with the barista, somebody in an elevator, your co-workers somebody in an elevator, your co-workers somebody in an elevator, your co-workers you may not be especially close with. you may not be especially close with. you may not be especially close with. Hey, how you doing? Eye contact. Keep it Hey, how you doing? Eye contact. Keep it Hey, how you doing? Eye contact. Keep it moving. uh this can really ladder up and moving. uh this can really ladder up and moving. uh this can really ladder up and scale up to uh apparently quite scale up to uh apparently quite scale up to uh apparently quite significant benefits in happiness. Do significant benefits in happiness. Do significant benefits in happiness. Do you agree with what the direction I'm you agree with what the direction I'm you agree with what the direction I'm going in here? going in here? going in here? >> Yes, totally. Absolutely. I think that's >> Yes, totally. Absolutely. I think that's >> Yes, totally. Absolutely. I think that's important work and uh I think there's um important work and uh I think there's um important work and uh I think there's um you know an important truth to that. you know an important truth to that. you know an important truth to that. >> So we're marching through the the four >> So we're marching through the the four >> So we're marching through the the four I'm calling them pillars or aspects of I'm calling them pillars or aspects of I'm calling them pillars or aspects of of the the framework you lay out in the of the the framework you lay out in the of the the framework you lay out in the book. The first again is awareness. The book. The first again is awareness. The book. The first again is awareness. The second is connection. We've talked about second is connection. We've talked about second is connection. We've talked about how to practice both of those in ways how to practice both of those in ways how to practice both of those in ways that don't uh require you to reinvent that don't uh require you to reinvent that don't uh require you to reinvent your life and your schedule. The the your life and your schedule. The the your life and your schedule. The the third, and we've talked about this a third, and we've talked about this a third, and we've talked about this a little bit, but I think it's worth going little bit, but I think it's worth going little bit, but I think it's worth going a little bit deeper here, is insight. a little bit deeper here, is insight. a little bit deeper here, is insight. Um, and I think this can be a tough one Um, and I think this can be a tough one Um, and I think this can be a tough one for people to gro. You use a word that's for people to gro. You use a word that's for people to gro. You use a word that's not going to help. Um, but it it's not going to help. Um, but it it's not going to help. Um, but it it's interesting and you can unpack it in interesting and you can unpack it in interesting and you can unpack it in ways that will be helpful. The word ways that will be helpful. The word ways that will be helpful. The word deifying court, what is that? So deifying court, what is that? So deifying court, what is that? So deification, you could say, is the the deification, you could say, is the the deification, you could say, is the the second part of a an inner movement, an second part of a an inner movement, an second part of a an inner movement, an inner process in which you first simply inner process in which you first simply inner process in which you first simply become aware of your own thoughts, become aware of your own thoughts, become aware of your own thoughts, feelings, emotions, and so forth. You feelings, emotions, and so forth. You feelings, emotions, and so forth. You just know you're having them versus just know you're having them versus just know you're having them versus you're fused with them as we discussed you're fused with them as we discussed you're fused with them as we discussed before. That's the first thing. But you before. That's the first thing. But you before. That's the first thing. But you can be aware of a thought pattern and can be aware of a thought pattern and can be aware of a thought pattern and still believe it. And this is a very still believe it. And this is a very still believe it. And this is a very important point. I I had a lot of this important point. I I had a lot of this important point. I I had a lot of this again going back to my own anxiety where again going back to my own anxiety where again going back to my own anxiety where I was learning to step back and feel I was learning to step back and feel I was learning to step back and feel what I was feeling to notice the inner what I was feeling to notice the inner what I was feeling to notice the inner narratives but part of me still believed narratives but part of me still believed narratives but part of me still believed it. It's like okay I know I'm having it. It's like okay I know I'm having it. It's like okay I know I'm having this thought but it's kind of true was this thought but it's kind of true was this thought but it's kind of true was kind of how I felt at the time. kind of how I felt at the time. kind of how I felt at the time. Dereification Dereification Dereification is seeing that thoughts are nothing more is seeing that thoughts are nothing more is seeing that thoughts are nothing more than mental habits and they are not than mental habits and they are not than mental habits and they are not necessarily true or real. In fact they necessarily true or real. In fact they necessarily true or real. In fact they are often times distorted sometimes are often times distorted sometimes are often times distorted sometimes wildly distorted. You know any anxious wildly distorted. You know any anxious wildly distorted. You know any anxious thought by definition is going to be a thought by definition is going to be a thought by definition is going to be a magnet for negative information and it magnet for negative information and it magnet for negative information and it will repel positive information. So will repel positive information. So will repel positive information. So insight is a lot of just knowing that insight is a lot of just knowing that insight is a lot of just knowing that the de the derifying it's like the de the de the derifying it's like the de the de the derifying it's like the de rigidifying if that's a word. I don't rigidifying if that's a word. I don't rigidifying if that's a word. I don't even know if that's a word but loosening even know if that's a word but loosening even know if that's a word but loosening up the mind right you're just the things up the mind right you're just the things up the mind right you're just the things that are locked and stucked you know old that are locked and stucked you know old that are locked and stucked you know old habits just seem so entrenched. This is habits just seem so entrenched. This is habits just seem so entrenched. This is a way to loosen that up and to see that a way to loosen that up and to see that a way to loosen that up and to see that the mind is much more fluid than it the mind is much more fluid than it the mind is much more fluid than it often seems. There's a reference in your often seems. There's a reference in your often seems. There's a reference in your book, Richie, in this in this part of book, Richie, in this in this part of book, Richie, in this in this part of the book on the aha moment. What is what the book on the aha moment. What is what the book on the aha moment. What is what do you mean by that? do you mean by that? do you mean by that? >> Well, the aha moment is uh a moment of >> Well, the aha moment is uh a moment of >> Well, the aha moment is uh a moment of insight insight insight uh that you know I think many people uh that you know I think many people uh that you know I think many people have experienced uh even in sort of have experienced uh even in sort of have experienced uh even in sort of pedestrian sorts of ways. Uh so if pedestrian sorts of ways. Uh so if pedestrian sorts of ways. Uh so if you're doing a crossword puzzle and you you're doing a crossword puzzle and you you're doing a crossword puzzle and you suddenly, you know, um recognize the suddenly, you know, um recognize the suddenly, you know, um recognize the word that fits in uh a certain context, word that fits in uh a certain context, word that fits in uh a certain context, there's a little bit of an aha moment. there's a little bit of an aha moment. there's a little bit of an aha moment. You know, you got it. It just occurs to You know, you got it. It just occurs to You know, you got it. It just occurs to you just like that. And um when there is you just like that. And um when there is you just like that. And um when there is that aha moment, research shows there's that aha moment, research shows there's that aha moment, research shows there's a burst of a certain brain rhythm that a burst of a certain brain rhythm that a burst of a certain brain rhythm that can be measured with EEG with electrodes can be measured with EEG with electrodes can be measured with EEG with electrodes on the scalp surface non-invasively. on the scalp surface non-invasively. on the scalp surface non-invasively. Uh and um that burst is a burst of gamma Uh and um that burst is a burst of gamma Uh and um that burst is a burst of gamma oscillations. Uh these are very fast oscillations. Uh these are very fast oscillations. Uh these are very fast frequency waves. Um and they typically frequency waves. Um and they typically frequency waves. Um and they typically last less than a second. you know, they last less than a second. you know, they last less than a second. you know, they correspond to the sort of timing of an correspond to the sort of timing of an correspond to the sort of timing of an aha moment. It could be like a quarter aha moment. It could be like a quarter aha moment. It could be like a quarter of a second. Um uh and what we see in of a second. Um uh and what we see in of a second. Um uh and what we see in long-term meditators who do a lot of long-term meditators who do a lot of long-term meditators who do a lot of this inside practice is that they show this inside practice is that they show this inside practice is that they show these gamma oscillations that last a these gamma oscillations that last a these gamma oscillations that last a long time. They're really enduring. Uh long time. They're really enduring. Uh long time. They're really enduring. Uh and it's kind of like their whole uh I and it's kind of like their whole uh I and it's kind of like their whole uh I mean this is a little bit hard to mean this is a little bit hard to mean this is a little bit hard to imagine. uh and what we're talking about imagine. uh and what we're talking about imagine. uh and what we're talking about now is really long-term practitioners. now is really long-term practitioners. now is really long-term practitioners. People like Mingarimpache were People like Mingarimpache were People like Mingarimpache were participants as subjects in this participants as subjects in this participants as subjects in this research. They're showing continuous research. They're showing continuous research. They're showing continuous activity like this. They they're um it's activity like this. They they're um it's activity like this. They they're um it's as if their phenomenological world is a as if their phenomenological world is a as if their phenomenological world is a continuous aha experience. continuous aha experience. continuous aha experience. >> Uh and so it becomes, you know, we we uh >> Uh and so it becomes, you know, we we uh >> Uh and so it becomes, you know, we we uh uh a number of years ago I wrote a book uh a number of years ago I wrote a book uh a number of years ago I wrote a book with Dan Gleman called Altered Traits. with Dan Gleman called Altered Traits. with Dan Gleman called Altered Traits. uh and it's a play on altered states. uh and it's a play on altered states. uh and it's a play on altered states. And the idea is that as we train our And the idea is that as we train our And the idea is that as we train our mind, these qualities that once were uh mind, these qualities that once were uh mind, these qualities that once were uh short-lived become much more enduring. short-lived become much more enduring. short-lived become much more enduring. And um for um very long-term meditators, And um for um very long-term meditators, And um for um very long-term meditators, this quality of insight becomes um this quality of insight becomes um this quality of insight becomes um really enduring. really enduring. really enduring. >> There's a there's a great analogy for >> There's a there's a great analogy for >> There's a there's a great analogy for this in the tradition, which is a candle this in the tradition, which is a candle this in the tradition, which is a candle flame with a glass enclosure around it. flame with a glass enclosure around it. flame with a glass enclosure around it. And this also speaks to how the the four And this also speaks to how the the four And this also speaks to how the the four factors of awareness, connection, factors of awareness, connection, factors of awareness, connection, insight, and purpose work together. So insight, and purpose work together. So insight, and purpose work together. So in this analogy, awareness is like the in this analogy, awareness is like the in this analogy, awareness is like the the glass enclosure. So you can imagine the glass enclosure. So you can imagine the glass enclosure. So you can imagine a moment in life, we've all had these, a moment in life, we've all had these, a moment in life, we've all had these, where you have a sudden epiphany. where you have a sudden epiphany. where you have a sudden epiphany. Something clicks into place about your Something clicks into place about your Something clicks into place about your life that you see that you didn't see life that you see that you didn't see life that you see that you didn't see the moment before. And it feels like the moment before. And it feels like the moment before. And it feels like your life is totally different. Like your life is totally different. Like your life is totally different. Like you've just now seen something that's you've just now seen something that's you've just now seen something that's going to change your life forever. And going to change your life forever. And going to change your life forever. And sometimes sometimes it does, but often sometimes sometimes it does, but often sometimes sometimes it does, but often times what happens is although it feels times what happens is although it feels times what happens is although it feels like your life has changed indelibly, like your life has changed indelibly, like your life has changed indelibly, the next the next day, the next week, the next the next day, the next week, the next the next day, the next week, the next month, it's just a memory. It's the next month, it's just a memory. It's the next month, it's just a memory. It's not embedded for some reason. And that not embedded for some reason. And that not embedded for some reason. And that reason is because awareness is unstable. reason is because awareness is unstable. reason is because awareness is unstable. Our attention, we're distracted. There's Our attention, we're distracted. There's Our attention, we're distracted. There's a million influences on our mind. And so a million influences on our mind. And so a million influences on our mind. And so that that epiphany, that deep insight is that that epiphany, that deep insight is that that epiphany, that deep insight is lost. So awareness practices give us lost. So awareness practices give us lost. So awareness practices give us that that inner stability where we can that that inner stability where we can that that inner stability where we can nurture those moments. But we also need nurture those moments. But we also need nurture those moments. But we also need the flame itself which is insight. This the flame itself which is insight. This the flame itself which is insight. This is you know classically what we would is you know classically what we would is you know classically what we would think of as wisdom. We need to see think of as wisdom. We need to see think of as wisdom. We need to see clearly the dynamics of our inner clearly the dynamics of our inner clearly the dynamics of our inner experience, the dynamics of our lives. experience, the dynamics of our lives. experience, the dynamics of our lives. And we need to be able to embody that so And we need to be able to embody that so And we need to be able to embody that so we act skillfully in a way that supports we act skillfully in a way that supports we act skillfully in a way that supports our own and hopefully others ability to our own and hopefully others ability to our own and hopefully others ability to thrive and flourish. So we need that but thrive and flourish. So we need that but thrive and flourish. So we need that but we need we kind of need all of these. we need we kind of need all of these. we need we kind of need all of these. It's like not enough just to have It's like not enough just to have It's like not enough just to have awareness or just to have insight. any awareness or just to have insight. any awareness or just to have insight. any one of these, you actually need all all one of these, you actually need all all one of these, you actually need all all four of these and they're all skills four of these and they're all skills four of these and they're all skills that are mutually supportive and that are mutually supportive and that are mutually supportive and reinforcing. reinforcing. reinforcing. >> So, insight um the the fundamental >> So, insight um the the fundamental >> So, insight um the the fundamental promise of the book is is that there are promise of the book is is that there are promise of the book is is that there are micro practices that can help us um micro practices that can help us um micro practices that can help us um develop all four of the the skills that develop all four of the the skills that develop all four of the the skills that are are at the core of the book. What are are at the core of the book. What are are at the core of the book. What are some of the ways uh that we can um are some of the ways uh that we can um are some of the ways uh that we can um throughout the course of our day develop throughout the course of our day develop throughout the course of our day develop insight? insight? insight? >> I mean, I'll share one. Richie, I'd love >> I mean, I'll share one. Richie, I'd love >> I mean, I'll share one. Richie, I'd love to hear kind of your go-to practices. to hear kind of your go-to practices. to hear kind of your go-to practices. One that I find super helpful, super One that I find super helpful, super One that I find super helpful, super easy to do is is the wise friend uh kind easy to do is is the wise friend uh kind easy to do is is the wise friend uh kind of analogy. So, in any situation, of analogy. So, in any situation, of analogy. So, in any situation, especially things that are challenging, especially things that are challenging, especially things that are challenging, difficult, stressful, I just stop and difficult, stressful, I just stop and difficult, stressful, I just stop and ask myself what would my wisest friend, ask myself what would my wisest friend, ask myself what would my wisest friend, I mean for me, I I've known Minger I mean for me, I I've known Minger I mean for me, I I've known Minger Ripchete for many years. He's one of my Ripchete for many years. He's one of my Ripchete for many years. He's one of my guiding teachers. So, I often times will guiding teachers. So, I often times will guiding teachers. So, I often times will think of him, I would just kind of think of him, I would just kind of think of him, I would just kind of imagine, what would Ripchet say about imagine, what would Ripchet say about imagine, what would Ripchet say about this? And that does something very this? And that does something very this? And that does something very interesting. The answer doesn't interesting. The answer doesn't interesting. The answer doesn't obviously come from meche. What it does obviously come from meche. What it does obviously come from meche. What it does is it it shifts me from that you know is it it shifts me from that you know is it it shifts me from that you know getting locked into my own perception of getting locked into my own perception of getting locked into my own perception of the situation. It immediately unlocks the situation. It immediately unlocks the situation. It immediately unlocks that and it unlocks the feeling that that and it unlocks the feeling that that and it unlocks the feeling that whatever story I'm telling myself which whatever story I'm telling myself which whatever story I'm telling myself which usually we're always telling ourselves usually we're always telling ourselves usually we're always telling ourselves ourselves stories about whatever the ourselves stories about whatever the ourselves stories about whatever the situations are. It just loosens that up situations are. It just loosens that up situations are. It just loosens that up and suddenly I'm looking at it from a and suddenly I'm looking at it from a and suddenly I'm looking at it from a different vantage point. So it's not different vantage point. So it's not different vantage point. So it's not that I'm tapping into some other form of that I'm tapping into some other form of that I'm tapping into some other form of wisdom. It's not like obviously I have wisdom. It's not like obviously I have wisdom. It's not like obviously I have some direct channel to mingle with some direct channel to mingle with some direct channel to mingle with Bache. I'm tapping into my own wisdom Bache. I'm tapping into my own wisdom Bache. I'm tapping into my own wisdom and insight in that moment. I'm just and insight in that moment. I'm just and insight in that moment. I'm just getting a fresh perspective and a wise getting a fresh perspective and a wise getting a fresh perspective and a wise perspective on whatever that situ perspective on whatever that situ perspective on whatever that situ situation might be. It's so it's really situation might be. It's so it's really situation might be. It's so it's really just that asking the question and then just that asking the question and then just that asking the question and then coming back to whatever's going on from coming back to whatever's going on from coming back to whatever's going on from that new vantage point. So simple, just that new vantage point. So simple, just that new vantage point. So simple, just takes a moment to do and it it's kind of takes a moment to do and it it's kind of takes a moment to do and it it's kind of gamechanging in the way it loosens up gamechanging in the way it loosens up gamechanging in the way it loosens up the old habitual patterns that most of the old habitual patterns that most of the old habitual patterns that most of us are carrying with us into these us are carrying with us into these us are carrying with us into these difficult situations. And and in that difficult situations. And and in that difficult situations. And and in that kind of um little exercise or practice, kind of um little exercise or practice, kind of um little exercise or practice, you know, we don't need to have a you know, we don't need to have a you know, we don't need to have a necessarily a ming in our lives. It necessarily a ming in our lives. It necessarily a ming in our lives. It could be just imagine this from another could be just imagine this from another could be just imagine this from another person's perspective just to loosen the person's perspective just to loosen the person's perspective just to loosen the grip grip grip >> that um that your perspective has uh and >> that um that your perspective has uh and >> that um that your perspective has uh and appreciate that there are other appreciate that there are other appreciate that there are other perspectives that would see this perspectives that would see this perspectives that would see this situation differently. situation differently. situation differently. >> Yeah. Yeah, it's like the shift itself >> Yeah. Yeah, it's like the shift itself >> Yeah. Yeah, it's like the shift itself is the important thing. Not so much, you is the important thing. Not so much, you is the important thing. Not so much, you know, that as just an example, but it's know, that as just an example, but it's know, that as just an example, but it's it's so easy. There's so many ways you it's so easy. There's so many ways you it's so easy. There's so many ways you could do it. It's quite remarkable and could do it. It's quite remarkable and could do it. It's quite remarkable and how easy and simple it is. how easy and simple it is. how easy and simple it is. >> Joseph Goldstein often says, don't side >> Joseph Goldstein often says, don't side >> Joseph Goldstein often says, don't side with yourself. with yourself. with yourself. >> That's great. >> That's great. >> That's great. >> I love that. >> I love that. >> I love that. >> That is great. That's great. So again, >> That is great. That's great. So again, >> That is great. That's great. So again, we're walking through the the the four we're walking through the the the four we're walking through the the the four pillars of the healthy minds framework pillars of the healthy minds framework pillars of the healthy minds framework and then talking about um how we can you and then talking about um how we can you and then talking about um how we can you know integrate micro interact micro um know integrate micro interact micro um know integrate micro interact micro um practices into our life that help us practices into our life that help us practices into our life that help us train these skills again uh they are train these skills again uh they are train these skills again uh they are awareness, connection, insight and let's awareness, connection, insight and let's awareness, connection, insight and let's talk about purpose. Um how are we talk about purpose. Um how are we talk about purpose. Um how are we defining and understanding purpose? defining and understanding purpose? defining and understanding purpose? Let's let's start there. Richie, what do Let's let's start there. Richie, what do Let's let's start there. Richie, what do you say? So purpose, the way we use it, you say? So purpose, the way we use it, you say? So purpose, the way we use it, it's not so much about finding something it's not so much about finding something it's not so much about finding something grand uh and really more purposeful to grand uh and really more purposeful to grand uh and really more purposeful to do with your life like some big life do with your life like some big life do with your life like some big life shift, but rather how can we find shift, but rather how can we find shift, but rather how can we find meaning and purpose in our daily meaning and purpose in our daily meaning and purpose in our daily activities without changing any of the activities without changing any of the activities without changing any of the external features of our lives. Now it external features of our lives. Now it external features of our lives. Now it could be that there are times when we could be that there are times when we could be that there are times when we may want to change those external may want to change those external may want to change those external features and that's um important but features and that's um important but features and that's um important but it's also possible to nurture purpose in it's also possible to nurture purpose in it's also possible to nurture purpose in the context of our daily lives by the context of our daily lives by the context of our daily lives by connecting meaning and purpose even to connecting meaning and purpose even to connecting meaning and purpose even to the most pedestrian activities of daily the most pedestrian activities of daily the most pedestrian activities of daily living. So, you know, I'll give you an living. So, you know, I'll give you an living. So, you know, I'll give you an example from my own life. And this may example from my own life. And this may example from my own life. And this may sound really corny. And um but it I I I sound really corny. And um but it I I I sound really corny. And um but it I I I do this ver v I do this every day I'm do this ver v I do this every day I'm do this ver v I do this every day I'm home. So, as long as I'm not traveling, home. So, as long as I'm not traveling, home. So, as long as I'm not traveling, I do this every day. We have a cat at I do this every day. We have a cat at I do this every day. We have a cat at home. Uh and there's a litter box and um home. Uh and there's a litter box and um home. Uh and there's a litter box and um the litter box is in the corner of a big the litter box is in the corner of a big the litter box is in the corner of a big living room and I am the one that scoops living room and I am the one that scoops living room and I am the one that scoops the litter every night. Uh, and I do it the litter every night. Uh, and I do it the litter every night. Uh, and I do it as a practice. Uh, and I I really do. as a practice. Uh, and I I really do. as a practice. Uh, and I I really do. And you know, as I kneel down to go to And you know, as I kneel down to go to And you know, as I kneel down to go to the litter box, I just reflect on how the litter box, I just reflect on how the litter box, I just reflect on how this is helpful to my wife. Um, cuz I'm this is helpful to my wife. Um, cuz I'm this is helpful to my wife. Um, cuz I'm the one that's dealing with this. Uh, the one that's dealing with this. Uh, the one that's dealing with this. Uh, for people that come into the living for people that come into the living for people that come into the living room, it's they don't have to smell the room, it's they don't have to smell the room, it's they don't have to smell the cat litter. for the our wonderful um cat litter. for the our wonderful um cat litter. for the our wonderful um Siamese cat who's now 14 years old. This Siamese cat who's now 14 years old. This Siamese cat who's now 14 years old. This is um uh a benefit to her life. And I is um uh a benefit to her life. And I is um uh a benefit to her life. And I just, you know, it's it's just a way to just, you know, it's it's just a way to just, you know, it's it's just a way to um have this connect to being of benefit um have this connect to being of benefit um have this connect to being of benefit to others. And it's so simple. to others. And it's so simple. to others. And it's so simple. So simple. Uh and I do something similar So simple. Uh and I do something similar So simple. Uh and I do something similar when I take out the garbage. um you know when I take out the garbage. um you know when I take out the garbage. um you know these are things that we do every day these are things that we do every day these are things that we do every day and often they're you know people regard and often they're you know people regard and often they're you know people regard them as chores. Yeah, got to do this and them as chores. Yeah, got to do this and them as chores. Yeah, got to do this and it's you know a kind of grind that it's you know a kind of grind that it's you know a kind of grind that people feel they have to do but um it's people feel they have to do but um it's people feel they have to do but um it's so easy to uh connect these simple so easy to uh connect these simple so easy to uh connect these simple activities to um uh you know an activities to um uh you know an activities to um uh you know an altruistic motive and that changes altruistic motive and that changes altruistic motive and that changes everything. So if you look at the active everything. So if you look at the active everything. So if you look at the active ingredients, just to interject for a ingredients, just to interject for a ingredients, just to interject for a second, there's two things in what you second, there's two things in what you second, there's two things in what you just said Richie that I think are like just said Richie that I think are like just said Richie that I think are like the key ingredients. One is there's a the key ingredients. One is there's a the key ingredients. One is there's a sense of clarity about the motivations sense of clarity about the motivations sense of clarity about the motivations and values that are most nourishing. and values that are most nourishing. and values that are most nourishing. Like in this case, being of service, Like in this case, being of service, Like in this case, being of service, kindness, you could see a bunch of kindness, you could see a bunch of kindness, you could see a bunch of things kind of wrapped into that that things kind of wrapped into that that things kind of wrapped into that that one experience. So the inner clarity is one experience. So the inner clarity is one experience. So the inner clarity is one. And then the other is embodiment. one. And then the other is embodiment. one. And then the other is embodiment. Like it's not just you have a nice, you Like it's not just you have a nice, you Like it's not just you have a nice, you know, warm fuzzy thought in your mind. know, warm fuzzy thought in your mind. know, warm fuzzy thought in your mind. It's linking that to something you're It's linking that to something you're It's linking that to something you're doing. So you're thinking, I'm now going doing. So you're thinking, I'm now going doing. So you're thinking, I'm now going to put this value, this guiding to put this value, this guiding to put this value, this guiding aspiration or motivation, whatever it aspiration or motivation, whatever it aspiration or motivation, whatever it might be. I'm going to live that in this might be. I'm going to live that in this might be. I'm going to live that in this moment in this activity. And this this moment in this activity. And this this moment in this activity. And this this too can just be a simple practice you do too can just be a simple practice you do too can just be a simple practice you do like something Richie because we are like something Richie because we are like something Richie because we are often recording things and doing things often recording things and doing things often recording things and doing things together. We have a little ritual just together. We have a little ritual just together. We have a little ritual just to give another example where we pause to give another example where we pause to give another example where we pause before we hit record and we we do just before we hit record and we we do just before we hit record and we we do just like a one minute motivation reset. And like a one minute motivation reset. And like a one minute motivation reset. And Richie, you can speak to what's going on Richie, you can speak to what's going on Richie, you can speak to what's going on in your mind. I know in my mind, I'm in your mind. I know in my mind, I'm in your mind. I know in my mind, I'm simply thinking that may whatever comes simply thinking that may whatever comes simply thinking that may whatever comes of this conversation we're about to of this conversation we're about to of this conversation we're about to have. In fact, I did it before we hit have. In fact, I did it before we hit have. In fact, I did it before we hit record here with you, Dan. May whatever record here with you, Dan. May whatever record here with you, Dan. May whatever comes of this, may this really do some comes of this, may this really do some comes of this, may this really do some good in the world, may this reach good in the world, may this reach good in the world, may this reach somebody who really needs it. May this somebody who really needs it. May this somebody who really needs it. May this be, you know, provide some clarity or be, you know, provide some clarity or be, you know, provide some clarity or some inspiration for somebody who really some inspiration for somebody who really some inspiration for somebody who really could use a little boost in their lives. could use a little boost in their lives. could use a little boost in their lives. May this just do good in the world. And May this just do good in the world. And May this just do good in the world. And may may whatever is happening here, may may may whatever is happening here, may may may whatever is happening here, may it somehow be of benefit and be of it somehow be of benefit and be of it somehow be of benefit and be of service. So again, just takes a moment service. So again, just takes a moment service. So again, just takes a moment and you can do that. It doesn't have to and you can do that. It doesn't have to and you can do that. It doesn't have to be something grand or positive. You like be something grand or positive. You like be something grand or positive. You like you said, Richie, you can be washing the you said, Richie, you can be washing the you said, Richie, you can be washing the dishes or taking out the the garbage or dishes or taking out the the garbage or dishes or taking out the the garbage or the most mundane things. You can link the most mundane things. You can link the most mundane things. You can link anything to to a value that's nourishing anything to to a value that's nourishing anything to to a value that's nourishing to you. And you know eventually to you. And you know eventually to you. And you know eventually everything really you know um um Mingar everything really you know um um Mingar everything really you know um um Mingar Piche has been teaching this uh um Piche has been teaching this uh um Piche has been teaching this uh um introductory course um anywhere anytime introductory course um anywhere anytime introductory course um anywhere anytime meditation and um uh a a friendly meditation and um uh a a friendly meditation and um uh a a friendly amendment is everywhere all the time. amendment is everywhere all the time. amendment is everywhere all the time. >> Yeah. And in the book I think you call >> Yeah. And in the book I think you call >> Yeah. And in the book I think you call it reframing the mundane which um I it reframing the mundane which um I it reframing the mundane which um I love. Uh Richie, say a little bit about love. Uh Richie, say a little bit about love. Uh Richie, say a little bit about the science here. Uh from a biological the science here. Uh from a biological the science here. Uh from a biological standpoint, purpose isn't just a nice to standpoint, purpose isn't just a nice to standpoint, purpose isn't just a nice to have. have. have. >> Yeah, it's um uh so there's there's a >> Yeah, it's um uh so there's there's a >> Yeah, it's um uh so there's there's a lot of science of of particular kinds lot of science of of particular kinds lot of science of of particular kinds and also a lack of science in other and also a lack of science in other and also a lack of science in other ways. So there's a lot of research on ways. So there's a lot of research on ways. So there's a lot of research on variations am naturally occurring variations am naturally occurring variations am naturally occurring variations among people in their quote variations among people in their quote variations among people in their quote level of purpose in life that is level of purpose in life that is level of purpose in life that is assessed typically through a simple assessed typically through a simple assessed typically through a simple questionnaire questionnaire questionnaire uh and its relationship to many other uh and its relationship to many other uh and its relationship to many other factors. One of the factors that it's factors. One of the factors that it's factors. One of the factors that it's been related to is health. Uh and so been related to is health. Uh and so been related to is health. Uh and so among people 65 years and older, among people 65 years and older, among people 65 years and older, having a strong sense of purpose in life having a strong sense of purpose in life having a strong sense of purpose in life is the single most important is the single most important is the single most important psychological psychological psychological factor in predicting longevity and factor in predicting longevity and factor in predicting longevity and that's you know after carefully that's you know after carefully that's you know after carefully controlling for other factors. Um people controlling for other factors. Um people controlling for other factors. Um people who have a stronger sense of purpose who have a stronger sense of purpose who have a stronger sense of purpose live longer. live longer. live longer. Uh and so clearly this gets under the Uh and so clearly this gets under the Uh and so clearly this gets under the skin and affects our biology. The other skin and affects our biology. The other skin and affects our biology. The other thing we found is that purpose is an thing we found is that purpose is an thing we found is that purpose is an enormous contributor to resilience. Uh enormous contributor to resilience. Uh enormous contributor to resilience. Uh and resilience here is defined in a very and resilience here is defined in a very and resilience here is defined in a very specific way, you know, in a specific way, you know, in a specific way, you know, in a neuroscientific context. And the way we neuroscientific context. And the way we neuroscientific context. And the way we define it is simply the rapidity with define it is simply the rapidity with define it is simply the rapidity with which you recover from adversity. which you recover from adversity. which you recover from adversity. >> If you recover quickly from adversity, >> If you recover quickly from adversity, >> If you recover quickly from adversity, you're said to be more resilient. you're said to be more resilient. you're said to be more resilient. And people who have a stronger sense of And people who have a stronger sense of And people who have a stronger sense of purpose in their brain, they recover purpose in their brain, they recover purpose in their brain, they recover more quickly from adversity. So it's more quickly from adversity. So it's more quickly from adversity. So it's really um uh directly affecting brain really um uh directly affecting brain really um uh directly affecting brain circuits that uh are critically involved circuits that uh are critically involved circuits that uh are critically involved in our response to adversity and in what in our response to adversity and in what in our response to adversity and in what we might think of as emotion regulation. we might think of as emotion regulation. we might think of as emotion regulation. >> And just to be clear, I think you >> And just to be clear, I think you >> And just to be clear, I think you explained this before, but I want to explained this before, but I want to explained this before, but I want to make sure I've got it. I think you're make sure I've got it. I think you're make sure I've got it. I think you're saying that we don't we don't need to saying that we don't we don't need to saying that we don't we don't need to have a clear rallying cry slogan of a have a clear rallying cry slogan of a have a clear rallying cry slogan of a purpose that's tattooed on our chests. purpose that's tattooed on our chests. purpose that's tattooed on our chests. It really can be no, I'm just going to It really can be no, I'm just going to It really can be no, I'm just going to um try to reframe the mundane all day um try to reframe the mundane all day um try to reframe the mundane all day long. long. long. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. Exactly. And you know it in and I should Exactly. And you know it in and I should Exactly. And you know it in and I should say that um you know some of this is say that um you know some of this is say that um you know some of this is still uncharted in terms of scientific still uncharted in terms of scientific still uncharted in terms of scientific research. Uh and um you know just to be research. Uh and um you know just to be research. Uh and um you know just to be clear and you know appropriately clear and you know appropriately clear and you know appropriately cautious and humble about it. Um what is cautious and humble about it. Um what is cautious and humble about it. Um what is clear uh is the research that shows that clear uh is the research that shows that clear uh is the research that shows that people have a stronger sense of purpose people have a stronger sense of purpose people have a stronger sense of purpose do better on lots of different things do better on lots of different things do better on lots of different things including living longer, showing more including living longer, showing more including living longer, showing more resilience and so forth. But we there resilience and so forth. But we there resilience and so forth. But we there there's been virtually no research on there's been virtually no research on there's been virtually no research on cultivating this sense of purpose. cultivating this sense of purpose. cultivating this sense of purpose. >> And these little practices are really um >> And these little practices are really um >> And these little practices are really um meant to do that. Uh uh and so um meant to do that. Uh uh and so um meant to do that. Uh uh and so um there's still a lot to be discovered there's still a lot to be discovered there's still a lot to be discovered about how these kinds of micro about how these kinds of micro about how these kinds of micro interventions may um uh impact our um interventions may um uh impact our um interventions may um uh impact our um our experience and our biology uh and our experience and our biology uh and our experience and our biology uh and change our sense of purpose. change our sense of purpose. change our sense of purpose. >> Got it. Well, speaking of the science, >> Got it. Well, speaking of the science, >> Got it. Well, speaking of the science, you know, you've you've referenced this you know, you've you've referenced this you know, you've you've referenced this a couple times that that rewiring the a couple times that that rewiring the a couple times that that rewiring the brain is a thing we can do and it brain is a thing we can do and it brain is a thing we can do and it doesn't take a ton of time. Um, can you doesn't take a ton of time. Um, can you doesn't take a ton of time. Um, can you just say a little bit more about the just say a little bit more about the just say a little bit more about the types of changes we can see to our brain types of changes we can see to our brain types of changes we can see to our brain and what kind of in investment is and what kind of in investment is and what kind of in investment is required for said changes and then maybe required for said changes and then maybe required for said changes and then maybe also while you're at it, Richie, talk a also while you're at it, Richie, talk a also while you're at it, Richie, talk a little bit how about how we can not only little bit how about how we can not only little bit how about how we can not only change our brains but also our genes. change our brains but also our genes. change our brains but also our genes. >> Sure. So when we talk about changing our >> Sure. So when we talk about changing our >> Sure. So when we talk about changing our brain in this general category of brain in this general category of brain in this general category of neuroplasticity, there are many neuroplasticity, there are many neuroplasticity, there are many different kinds of neuroplasticity. different kinds of neuroplasticity. different kinds of neuroplasticity. Uh and so um uh you know we can get Uh and so um uh you know we can get Uh and so um uh you know we can get really nerdy about exactly what specific really nerdy about exactly what specific really nerdy about exactly what specific parameter of plasticity we're referring parameter of plasticity we're referring parameter of plasticity we're referring to. But broadly speaking, there are two to. But broadly speaking, there are two to. But broadly speaking, there are two big buckets. One we might call big buckets. One we might call big buckets. One we might call functional changes in the brain. The functional changes in the brain. The functional changes in the brain. The other we might call structural changes other we might call structural changes other we might call structural changes in the brain. Structural changes are in the brain. Structural changes are in the brain. Structural changes are anatomical changes. They're changes in anatomical changes. They're changes in anatomical changes. They're changes in the actual anatomy. Um areas may grow the actual anatomy. Um areas may grow the actual anatomy. Um areas may grow larger or smaller. Connections may larger or smaller. Connections may larger or smaller. Connections may become um larger or smaller. Whereas become um larger or smaller. Whereas become um larger or smaller. Whereas functional changes are changes in the functional changes are changes in the functional changes are changes in the activity patterns of the brain. Changes activity patterns of the brain. Changes activity patterns of the brain. Changes in activity patterns of the brain can in activity patterns of the brain can in activity patterns of the brain can occur really quickly. You know the kind occur really quickly. You know the kind occur really quickly. You know the kind of practice that court led us through. I of practice that court led us through. I of practice that court led us through. I guarantee that if we had people hooked guarantee that if we had people hooked guarantee that if we had people hooked up to the right equipment, you would see up to the right equipment, you would see up to the right equipment, you would see changes in their brain just like that. changes in their brain just like that. changes in their brain just like that. Functional changes. Um uh but that Functional changes. Um uh but that Functional changes. Um uh but that doesn't mean that those changes will doesn't mean that those changes will doesn't mean that those changes will endure. The structural changes we think endure. The structural changes we think endure. The structural changes we think are changes that occur that um are the are changes that occur that um are the are changes that occur that um are the um corlate if you will of the more um corlate if you will of the more um corlate if you will of the more enduring changes that we see. enduring changes that we see. enduring changes that we see. But the structural changes are easier to But the structural changes are easier to But the structural changes are easier to produce than we think as well. And I produce than we think as well. And I produce than we think as well. And I should just give some context not from should just give some context not from should just give some context not from meditation. There have been studies of meditation. There have been studies of meditation. There have been studies of people who are learning to juggle and people who are learning to juggle and people who are learning to juggle and after a 90inute class in juggling the after a 90inute class in juggling the after a 90inute class in juggling the wiring in your brain changes just after wiring in your brain changes just after wiring in your brain changes just after 90 minutes. Um we have new data now not 90 minutes. Um we have new data now not 90 minutes. Um we have new data now not yet published um that shows that less yet published um that shows that less yet published um that shows that less than 150 total minutes over the course than 150 total minutes over the course than 150 total minutes over the course of a month of practicing these four of a month of practicing these four of a month of practicing these four pillars pillars pillars produces structural changes in the produces structural changes in the produces structural changes in the brain. So that's that's not very much. brain. So that's that's not very much. brain. So that's that's not very much. But again it doesn't mean these But again it doesn't mean these But again it doesn't mean these structural changes are really dynamic. structural changes are really dynamic. structural changes are really dynamic. They can they can revert back. It They can they can revert back. It They can they can revert back. It doesn't mean they're going to persist. doesn't mean they're going to persist. doesn't mean they're going to persist. you know, it's like weight or weight you know, it's like weight or weight you know, it's like weight or weight loss. You know, there's it could be very loss. You know, there's it could be very loss. You know, there's it could be very variable. Um, and so it is our strong variable. Um, and so it is our strong variable. Um, and so it is our strong intuition that in order for these intuition that in order for these intuition that in order for these changes to endure, we need to keep changes to endure, we need to keep changes to endure, we need to keep practicing. practicing. practicing. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You ever get that dip of energy in the You ever get that dip of energy in the You ever get that dip of energy in the mid afternoon and it just feels like mid afternoon and it just feels like mid afternoon and it just feels like you're just trying to cut through soupy you're just trying to cut through soupy you're just trying to cut through soupy fog in order to get your brain to work? fog in order to get your brain to work? fog in order to get your brain to work? I don't know about you, but I deal with I don't know about you, but I deal with I don't know about you, but I deal with this all the time. Which brings me to this all the time. Which brings me to this all the time. 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Go offering 30% off and free shipping. Go offering 30% off and free shipping. Go to drinkspark.com and use the code to drinkspark.com and use the code to drinkspark.com and use the code happier at checkout. That's happier happier at checkout. That's happier happier at checkout. That's happier drinkspark.com. Richie Orcort, whoever wants to take it. Richie Orcort, whoever wants to take it. What about changing our genes? In this What about changing our genes? In this What about changing our genes? In this case, it's ge ne. case, it's ge ne. case, it's ge ne. >> Yeah. So I let me say just a little bit >> Yeah. So I let me say just a little bit >> Yeah. So I let me say just a little bit about that and then um court can add um about that and then um court can add um about that and then um court can add um whatever he might say but uh so we there whatever he might say but uh so we there whatever he might say but uh so we there are two aspects to our genes broadly are two aspects to our genes broadly are two aspects to our genes broadly speaking that are relevant here. One is speaking that are relevant here. One is speaking that are relevant here. One is the um sequence of base pairs that the um sequence of base pairs that the um sequence of base pairs that constitutes our DNA. For the most part, constitutes our DNA. For the most part, constitutes our DNA. For the most part, for most people, that's not going to for most people, that's not going to for most people, that's not going to change no matter how much meditation we change no matter how much meditation we change no matter how much meditation we do. Um, uh, you know, radiation exposure do. Um, uh, you know, radiation exposure do. Um, uh, you know, radiation exposure and spending a lot of time on airplanes and spending a lot of time on airplanes and spending a lot of time on airplanes can change those that can change those that can change those that can change that. Um, but, uh, for the can change that. Um, but, uh, for the can change that. Um, but, uh, for the most part, it's not going to change. Uh, most part, it's not going to change. Uh, most part, it's not going to change. Uh, but what will change is our epigenetics. but what will change is our epigenetics. but what will change is our epigenetics. And epigenetics is the science of how And epigenetics is the science of how And epigenetics is the science of how our genes are regulated. And you can our genes are regulated. And you can our genes are regulated. And you can think of genes having little volume think of genes having little volume think of genes having little volume controls that go from low to high. And controls that go from low to high. And controls that go from low to high. And that's very dynamic. And those volume that's very dynamic. And those volume that's very dynamic. And those volume controls can be modulated. And they can controls can be modulated. And they can controls can be modulated. And they can be modulated by meditation and other be modulated by meditation and other be modulated by meditation and other kinds of experience. And so there are kinds of experience. And so there are kinds of experience. And so there are good there's good evidence now to show good there's good evidence now to show good there's good evidence now to show that that that um even over the course of a single day um even over the course of a single day um even over the course of a single day of intensive practice in an experienced of intensive practice in an experienced of intensive practice in an experienced meditator 6 to 7 hours of practice is meditator 6 to 7 hours of practice is meditator 6 to 7 hours of practice is enough to produce uh a measurable change enough to produce uh a measurable change enough to produce uh a measurable change in gene expression. Mhm. in gene expression. Mhm. in gene expression. Mhm. >> So, one one thing to to piggyback on >> So, one one thing to to piggyback on >> So, one one thing to to piggyback on what Richie is sharing here. If you what Richie is sharing here. If you what Richie is sharing here. If you bring these these two principles of bring these these two principles of bring these these two principles of neuroplasticity and the insights from neuroplasticity and the insights from neuroplasticity and the insights from epigenetics together, what this is epigenetics together, what this is epigenetics together, what this is showing is just the dynamics of our showing is just the dynamics of our showing is just the dynamics of our inner experience and of our lives is inner experience and of our lives is inner experience and of our lives is much more malleable than previously we much more malleable than previously we much more malleable than previously we understood scientifically. understood scientifically. understood scientifically. But that is that kind of cuts both ways. But that is that kind of cuts both ways. But that is that kind of cuts both ways. We are living in a world right now that We are living in a world right now that We are living in a world right now that is engineered to produce distraction, is engineered to produce distraction, is engineered to produce distraction, emotional imbalance, and social emotional imbalance, and social emotional imbalance, and social division. And so if we're not division. And so if we're not division. And so if we're not intentional about what we are intentional about what we are intentional about what we are surrounding ourselves with and what we surrounding ourselves with and what we surrounding ourselves with and what we are filling our minds with, that are filling our minds with, that are filling our minds with, that epigenetic capacity and neuroplastic epigenetic capacity and neuroplastic epigenetic capacity and neuroplastic neuroplastic capacity is just a recipe neuroplastic capacity is just a recipe neuroplastic capacity is just a recipe for the epidemic levels of distraction for the epidemic levels of distraction for the epidemic levels of distraction and mental health concerns that we see. and mental health concerns that we see. and mental health concerns that we see. we're we're living through a grand we're we're living through a grand we're we're living through a grand experiment that we can see the results experiment that we can see the results experiment that we can see the results of this. So it just invites the the you of this. So it just invites the the you of this. So it just invites the the you know the uh importance of really taking know the uh importance of really taking know the uh importance of really taking charge of this so we can see that charge of this so we can see that charge of this so we can see that actually we all have a role to play and actually we all have a role to play and actually we all have a role to play and none of us can afford individually or none of us can afford individually or none of us can afford individually or collectively to just be passive about collectively to just be passive about collectively to just be passive about this. Maybe one very specific point to this. Maybe one very specific point to this. Maybe one very specific point to kind of to mention is just the kind of to mention is just the kind of to mention is just the information diet. If you think about information diet. If you think about information diet. If you think about information being like food to our minds information being like food to our minds information being like food to our minds and brains in the way that uh you know and brains in the way that uh you know and brains in the way that uh you know physical food is for our body and physical food is for our body and physical food is for our body and physical health, you would think physical health, you would think physical health, you would think immediately about how much you're eating immediately about how much you're eating immediately about how much you're eating and the quality of the food you eat. And and the quality of the food you eat. And and the quality of the food you eat. And think about how much information we think about how much information we think about how much information we ingest. It's insane compared to 20 years ingest. It's insane compared to 20 years ingest. It's insane compared to 20 years ago, 50 years ago, 100 years ago. We are ago, 50 years ago, 100 years ago. We are ago, 50 years ago, 100 years ago. We are consuming information at a rate that's consuming information at a rate that's consuming information at a rate that's just totally unprecedented. And that just totally unprecedented. And that just totally unprecedented. And that would be questionable in any would be questionable in any would be questionable in any circumstance. But the quality, the circumstance. But the quality, the circumstance. But the quality, the second question is the quality. Is that second question is the quality. Is that second question is the quality. Is that healthy? Is the food healthy? Is it healthy? Is the food healthy? Is it healthy? Is the food healthy? Is it unhealthy? We can just look. I mean, unhealthy? We can just look. I mean, unhealthy? We can just look. I mean, most of the information we're consuming most of the information we're consuming most of the information we're consuming again is is making us more distracted, again is is making us more distracted, again is is making us more distracted, more anxious, feeling more more uh us more anxious, feeling more more uh us more anxious, feeling more more uh us them kind of feelings in society. And so them kind of feelings in society. And so them kind of feelings in society. And so I think we just we really need to get a I think we just we really need to get a I think we just we really need to get a handle on this and and work on these handle on this and and work on these handle on this and and work on these inner skills so we can just be inner skills so we can just be inner skills so we can just be intentional about what's happening in intentional about what's happening in intentional about what's happening in our minds and brains and with our our minds and brains and with our our minds and brains and with our nervous systems because we can just see nervous systems because we can just see nervous systems because we can just see the what happens when we don't. We're the what happens when we don't. We're the what happens when we don't. We're just living through a collective just living through a collective just living through a collective experiment of what happens when we're experiment of what happens when we're experiment of what happens when we're not intentional. not intentional. not intentional. >> Yeah. And so just to say one other thing >> Yeah. And so just to say one other thing >> Yeah. And so just to say one other thing about um what Court just said um uh to about um what Court just said um uh to about um what Court just said um uh to make this clear, neuroplasticity and make this clear, neuroplasticity and make this clear, neuroplasticity and epigenetics are neutral with respect to epigenetics are neutral with respect to epigenetics are neutral with respect to uh its impact on our mind, brain and uh its impact on our mind, brain and uh its impact on our mind, brain and body. If we uh are exposed to all this body. If we uh are exposed to all this body. If we uh are exposed to all this toxic information that Cord is referring toxic information that Cord is referring toxic information that Cord is referring to, it will harness our neuroplasticity to, it will harness our neuroplasticity to, it will harness our neuroplasticity and epigenetics to produce the and epigenetics to produce the and epigenetics to produce the catastrophes that we're experiencing catastrophes that we're experiencing catastrophes that we're experiencing right now. And so um we can harness right now. And so um we can harness right now. And so um we can harness these same mechanisms of neuroplasticity these same mechanisms of neuroplasticity these same mechanisms of neuroplasticity and epigenetics uh in a virtuous way to and epigenetics uh in a virtuous way to and epigenetics uh in a virtuous way to cultivate wholesome qualities of the cultivate wholesome qualities of the cultivate wholesome qualities of the mind that will help to counteract this. mind that will help to counteract this. mind that will help to counteract this. >> Well said. This is really one major area >> Well said. This is really one major area >> Well said. This is really one major area I'd like to touch on before I let you I'd like to touch on before I let you I'd like to touch on before I let you both go. Um and we've we've touched on both go. Um and we've we've touched on both go. Um and we've we've touched on this a little bit, but I I want to hit this a little bit, but I I want to hit this a little bit, but I I want to hit it head on. Um because it's a question I it head on. Um because it's a question I it head on. Um because it's a question I get all the time. I have you live get all the time. I have you live get all the time. I have you live meditation and Q&A sessions that I do meditation and Q&A sessions that I do meditation and Q&A sessions that I do for my app community once a week and for my app community once a week and for my app community once a week and almost every time I get the question X almost every time I get the question X almost every time I get the question X event just happened in the news how you event just happened in the news how you event just happened in the news how you know what good is meditation or what's know what good is meditation or what's know what good is meditation or what's the they don't use this word uh but in the they don't use this word uh but in the they don't use this word uh but in the context of your book I'll put it in the context of your book I'll put it in the context of your book I'll put it in I'll use this word what how can I I'll use this word what how can I I'll use this word what how can I flourish in a world where X just flourish in a world where X just flourish in a world where X just happened Trump did or said this or happened Trump did or said this or happened Trump did or said this or whatever yeah so how do you respond whatever yeah so how do you respond whatever yeah so how do you respond respond to that question when when you respond to that question when when you respond to that question when when you feel it. feel it. feel it. >> Well, I mean, I'm living my a current >> Well, I mean, I'm living my a current >> Well, I mean, I'm living my a current version of this cuz I'm from Minnesota. version of this cuz I'm from Minnesota. version of this cuz I'm from Minnesota. I grew up in Minneapolis and it's a I grew up in Minneapolis and it's a I grew up in Minneapolis and it's a place I love dearly and um man, I was place I love dearly and um man, I was place I love dearly and um man, I was just watching some stuff last night that just watching some stuff last night that just watching some stuff last night that was heartbreaking honestly. Um I'm even was heartbreaking honestly. Um I'm even was heartbreaking honestly. Um I'm even emotional just thinking about it now. emotional just thinking about it now. emotional just thinking about it now. Almost like the community I grew up in Almost like the community I grew up in Almost like the community I grew up in is almost unrecognizable kind of what's is almost unrecognizable kind of what's is almost unrecognizable kind of what's going on. And so if you take a situation going on. And so if you take a situation going on. And so if you take a situation like that, like here's a very real, like that, like here's a very real, like that, like here's a very real, excuse me, a very real situation in a excuse me, a very real situation in a excuse me, a very real situation in a community I love. I'm very emotionally community I love. I'm very emotionally community I love. I'm very emotionally invested in this. And a question is sort invested in this. And a question is sort invested in this. And a question is sort of how what does flourishing look like of how what does flourishing look like of how what does flourishing look like at a time like this. So to go back to at a time like this. So to go back to at a time like this. So to go back to one point that Richie made that is super one point that Richie made that is super one point that Richie made that is super important. Flourishing doesn't mean important. Flourishing doesn't mean important. Flourishing doesn't mean happy. clearly seeing what's going on. happy. clearly seeing what's going on. happy. clearly seeing what's going on. In this case, in my own community where In this case, in my own community where In this case, in my own community where I'm from, where I grew up, being happy I'm from, where I grew up, being happy I'm from, where I grew up, being happy is not the response to that, right? I I is not the response to that, right? I I is not the response to that, right? I I want what I want I want the magical want what I want I want the magical want what I want I want the magical alchemy of wisdom and compassion to be alchemy of wisdom and compassion to be alchemy of wisdom and compassion to be driving me, right? I can see rage. I can driving me, right? I can see rage. I can driving me, right? I can see rage. I can see frustration. I can feel see frustration. I can feel see frustration. I can feel powerlessness. I can see how any of powerlessness. I can see how any of powerlessness. I can see how any of those things would be totally those things would be totally those things would be totally understandable. It feels so understandable. It feels so understandable. It feels so overwhelming. I feel so disconnected. overwhelming. I feel so disconnected. overwhelming. I feel so disconnected. What could I possibly do in this? and What could I possibly do in this? and What could I possibly do in this? and I'm so disheartened by what's happening. I'm so disheartened by what's happening. I'm so disheartened by what's happening. That's not helpful. Like I'm not going That's not helpful. Like I'm not going That's not helpful. Like I'm not going to be at my best if I'm just overwhelmed to be at my best if I'm just overwhelmed to be at my best if I'm just overwhelmed or hopeless. So, it's how do I get in or hopeless. So, it's how do I get in or hopeless. So, it's how do I get in touch with this part of myself where I'm touch with this part of myself where I'm touch with this part of myself where I'm just simply seeing the dynamic more just simply seeing the dynamic more just simply seeing the dynamic more clearly? It's not the narrowing of clearly? It's not the narrowing of clearly? It's not the narrowing of perception when our when our conscious perception when our when our conscious perception when our when our conscious experience is totally hijacked by experience is totally hijacked by experience is totally hijacked by anxiety or fear or anything else. And anxiety or fear or anything else. And anxiety or fear or anything else. And yet, it's infused with care. So again, yet, it's infused with care. So again, yet, it's infused with care. So again, this again goes back to really nurturing this again goes back to really nurturing this again goes back to really nurturing the care and connection and nurturing the care and connection and nurturing the care and connection and nurturing the awareness. It's it's the combination the awareness. It's it's the combination the awareness. It's it's the combination of all of these things together that of all of these things together that of all of these things together that when something like this happens, it when something like this happens, it when something like this happens, it gives us the space to step back, not gives us the space to step back, not gives us the space to step back, not from some cold clinical gaze, but from a from some cold clinical gaze, but from a from some cold clinical gaze, but from a place of deep care to just say, okay, place of deep care to just say, okay, place of deep care to just say, okay, what what's going on here? What what can what what's going on here? What what can what what's going on here? What what can I do? I'm not going to single-handedly I do? I'm not going to single-handedly I do? I'm not going to single-handedly fix this situation. I know it it feels fix this situation. I know it it feels fix this situation. I know it it feels terrible just to kind of drown in terrible just to kind of drown in terrible just to kind of drown in hopelessness and so what can I do right hopelessness and so what can I do right hopelessness and so what can I do right and then again you can take simple steps and then again you can take simple steps and then again you can take simple steps even just little things like in my even just little things like in my even just little things like in my immediate orbit like okay I'm not I'm immediate orbit like okay I'm not I'm immediate orbit like okay I'm not I'm not even in Minnesota right now I don't not even in Minnesota right now I don't not even in Minnesota right now I don't live there currently I live in Madison live there currently I live in Madison live there currently I live in Madison so at least in my next interactions I so at least in my next interactions I so at least in my next interactions I want to just send some kindness out into want to just send some kindness out into want to just send some kindness out into the world some understanding and maybe the world some understanding and maybe the world some understanding and maybe even people who I disagree with like even people who I disagree with like even people who I disagree with like okay I don't condone a lot of the stuff okay I don't condone a lot of the stuff okay I don't condone a lot of the stuff that's happening I vehemently disagree that's happening I vehemently disagree that's happening I vehemently disagree with it, but I do want to understand it with it, but I do want to understand it with it, but I do want to understand it so I can engage with people who I so I can engage with people who I so I can engage with people who I disagree with and who I just it's just disagree with and who I just it's just disagree with and who I just it's just unthinkable to me how people have the unthinkable to me how people have the unthinkable to me how people have the opinions they do and they probably look opinions they do and they probably look opinions they do and they probably look at me and feel the exact same way. And at me and feel the exact same way. And at me and feel the exact same way. And so there needs to be some unilateral so there needs to be some unilateral so there needs to be some unilateral disarmament here, an attempt to just disarmament here, an attempt to just disarmament here, an attempt to just actually talk and understand. And that actually talk and understand. And that actually talk and understand. And that doesn't come from hopelessness and being doesn't come from hopelessness and being doesn't come from hopelessness and being overwhelmed by the emotions. So it goes overwhelmed by the emotions. So it goes overwhelmed by the emotions. So it goes back to those four questions and the back to those four questions and the back to those four questions and the four qualities we've been talking about. four qualities we've been talking about. four qualities we've been talking about. These are precisely the superpowers that These are precisely the superpowers that These are precisely the superpowers that give us the ability to navigate these give us the ability to navigate these give us the ability to navigate these situations well and to be at our best situations well and to be at our best situations well and to be at our best the more challenging situations are. And the more challenging situations are. And the more challenging situations are. And we're never going to be perfect, but we're never going to be perfect, but we're never going to be perfect, but what we can do is view them as what we can do is view them as what we can do is view them as opportunities to practice and to learn opportunities to practice and to learn opportunities to practice and to learn and grow. So, you know, somebody like and grow. So, you know, somebody like and grow. So, you know, somebody like Victor Frankle who wrote a man's search Victor Frankle who wrote a man's search Victor Frankle who wrote a man's search for meaning, a victim of the Holocaust for meaning, a victim of the Holocaust for meaning, a victim of the Holocaust is just, you know, a great example of is just, you know, a great example of is just, you know, a great example of even the worst possible things that can even the worst possible things that can even the worst possible things that can happen to us as human beings. Obviously, happen to us as human beings. Obviously, happen to us as human beings. Obviously, we wouldn't wish them upon anybody, but we wouldn't wish them upon anybody, but we wouldn't wish them upon anybody, but they can be sources of learning and they can be sources of learning and they can be sources of learning and growth and self-discovery and coming growth and self-discovery and coming growth and self-discovery and coming together in ways, but we need to be together in ways, but we need to be together in ways, but we need to be intentional about it. It's it's it all intentional about it. It's it's it all intentional about it. It's it's it all comes down to practice. You know, I just comes down to practice. You know, I just comes down to practice. You know, I just add one other little thing and that is add one other little thing and that is add one other little thing and that is that particularly for those who are are that particularly for those who are are that particularly for those who are are on the front lines of social change and on the front lines of social change and on the front lines of social change and social activists who are trying to social activists who are trying to social activists who are trying to produce system change um that is so produce system change um that is so produce system change um that is so sorely needed in many parts of our sorely needed in many parts of our sorely needed in many parts of our country and the world. Um burnout is uh country and the world. Um burnout is uh country and the world. Um burnout is uh so prevalent and the kinds of practices so prevalent and the kinds of practices so prevalent and the kinds of practices that we're talking about are really that we're talking about are really that we're talking about are really important in giving people a kind of important in giving people a kind of important in giving people a kind of resilience and vitality that is going to resilience and vitality that is going to resilience and vitality that is going to be necessary to um be effective in the be necessary to um be effective in the be necessary to um be effective in the work that they do. work that they do. work that they do. >> Yes. And the way you're describing these >> Yes. And the way you're describing these >> Yes. And the way you're describing these practices is it's not some massive practices is it's not some massive practices is it's not some massive project to add to your to-do list uh project to add to your to-do list uh project to add to your to-do list uh that will further stress you out. These that will further stress you out. These that will further stress you out. These are things you can integrate into the are things you can integrate into the are things you can integrate into the course of your day. Before I let you go, course of your day. Before I let you go, course of your day. Before I let you go, two questions I always ask at the end. two questions I always ask at the end. two questions I always ask at the end. Is there anything either or both of you Is there anything either or both of you Is there anything either or both of you were hoping we would get to that we were hoping we would get to that we were hoping we would get to that we haven't yet gotten to? haven't yet gotten to? haven't yet gotten to? >> There is one other thing um which I >> There is one other thing um which I >> There is one other thing um which I would like and I can just very briefly would like and I can just very briefly would like and I can just very briefly introduce it. And um in addition to the introduce it. And um in addition to the introduce it. And um in addition to the uh conviction that it's easier than you uh conviction that it's easier than you uh conviction that it's easier than you think, there's another think, there's another think, there's another um slogan, if you will, that is at the um slogan, if you will, that is at the um slogan, if you will, that is at the heart of uh some of what we write about heart of uh some of what we write about heart of uh some of what we write about in our book, Born to Flourish, and that in our book, Born to Flourish, and that in our book, Born to Flourish, and that is that flourishing is contagious. is that flourishing is contagious. is that flourishing is contagious. >> And there's a lot of really good >> And there's a lot of really good >> And there's a lot of really good hard-nosed scientific evidence for this. hard-nosed scientific evidence for this. hard-nosed scientific evidence for this. Uh and so when we cultivate these skills Uh and so when we cultivate these skills Uh and so when we cultivate these skills of flourishing, we not only are of flourishing, we not only are of flourishing, we not only are benefiting ourselves, but we're benefiting ourselves, but we're benefiting ourselves, but we're benefiting all of those that we touch benefiting all of those that we touch benefiting all of those that we touch because they actually benefit from being because they actually benefit from being because they actually benefit from being around us. I would add to that um around us. I would add to that um around us. I would add to that um another kind of key insight that drives another kind of key insight that drives another kind of key insight that drives our work and message that we want to get our work and message that we want to get our work and message that we want to get out into the world is that these factors out into the world is that these factors out into the world is that these factors the these four things we've talked about the these four things we've talked about the these four things we've talked about awareness connection insight purpose awareness connection insight purpose awareness connection insight purpose these are not things we need to develop these are not things we need to develop these are not things we need to develop that we don't have this is actually who that we don't have this is actually who that we don't have this is actually who we are we are we are >> a moments of awareness moments of >> a moments of awareness moments of >> a moments of awareness moments of connection moments of insight and connection moments of insight and connection moments of insight and purpose this this is actually here all purpose this this is actually here all purpose this this is actually here all the time and it's actually the fact that the time and it's actually the fact that the time and it's actually the fact that these things are so omnip present that these things are so omnip present that these things are so omnip present that makes them hard to see in in the sense makes them hard to see in in the sense makes them hard to see in in the sense that we notice what's different. We that we notice what's different. We that we notice what's different. We notice what's out of the ordinary. It's notice what's out of the ordinary. It's notice what's out of the ordinary. It's much more difficult to notice the stuff much more difficult to notice the stuff much more difficult to notice the stuff that's always present. And so it just that's always present. And so it just that's always present. And so it just goes like we all have the raw goes like we all have the raw goes like we all have the raw ingredients to flourish. ingredients to flourish. ingredients to flourish. >> It's it's getting in touch with what we >> It's it's getting in touch with what we >> It's it's getting in touch with what we have rather than again some neverending have rather than again some neverending have rather than again some neverending self-help project, self-improvement self-help project, self-improvement self-help project, self-improvement paradigm. And I think that's super paradigm. And I think that's super paradigm. And I think that's super important. It's right here. It's in important. It's right here. It's in important. It's right here. It's in every moment. It's right here. I think every moment. It's right here. I think every moment. It's right here. I think and talk about what I'm about to say a and talk about what I'm about to say a and talk about what I'm about to say a lot. So many listeners will have heard lot. So many listeners will have heard lot. So many listeners will have heard me say this before and I'm sure my staff me say this before and I'm sure my staff me say this before and I'm sure my staff uh has a drinking game every time I say uh has a drinking game every time I say uh has a drinking game every time I say this, but my understanding is um the this, but my understanding is um the this, but my understanding is um the Tibetan word for enlightenment Tibetan word for enlightenment Tibetan word for enlightenment translates roughly into clearing away translates roughly into clearing away translates roughly into clearing away and bringing forth. So, we're just and bringing forth. So, we're just and bringing forth. So, we're just clearing away a lot of the clutter that clearing away a lot of the clutter that clearing away a lot of the clutter that naturally occurs in a human uh brain and naturally occurs in a human uh brain and naturally occurs in a human uh brain and mind and also that is injected into us mind and also that is injected into us mind and also that is injected into us by this incredibly dysfunctional modern by this incredibly dysfunctional modern by this incredibly dysfunctional modern environment that we've somehow uh built. environment that we've somehow uh built. environment that we've somehow uh built. Um, clear that away and what comes forth Um, clear that away and what comes forth Um, clear that away and what comes forth is is are these innate factors or is is are these innate factors or is is are these innate factors or qualities that you're you're both qualities that you're you're both qualities that you're you're both describing in your new book, awareness, describing in your new book, awareness, describing in your new book, awareness, connection, insight, purpose. Okay. So connection, insight, purpose. Okay. So connection, insight, purpose. Okay. So the second question I always ask at the the second question I always ask at the the second question I always ask at the end is can you please plug everything end is can you please plug everything end is can you please plug everything the uh Richie I'll start with you the uh Richie I'll start with you the uh Richie I'll start with you mentioned the book um but also your mentioned the book um but also your mentioned the book um but also your center in Madison um your app just give center in Madison um your app just give center in Madison um your app just give us everything please. us everything please. us everything please. >> Yeah so the book is called Born to >> Yeah so the book is called Born to >> Yeah so the book is called Born to Flourish. It's coming out uh March 24th. Flourish. It's coming out uh March 24th. Flourish. It's coming out uh March 24th. It can be pre-ordered now. Uh and uh it It can be pre-ordered now. Uh and uh it It can be pre-ordered now. Uh and uh it has rich descriptions of all of this. Uh has rich descriptions of all of this. Uh has rich descriptions of all of this. Uh our app is called the healthy minds our app is called the healthy minds our app is called the healthy minds program and uh it is freely available program and uh it is freely available program and uh it is freely available uh by um uh and it was created by our uh by um uh and it was created by our uh by um uh and it was created by our non affiliated nonprofit uh which used non affiliated nonprofit uh which used non affiliated nonprofit uh which used to be called healthy minds innovations to be called healthy minds innovations to be called healthy minds innovations and has just been rebranded and has just been rebranded and has just been rebranded uh and is now called human h i n uh and is now called human h i n uh and is now called human h i n uh and um uh and um uh and um uh and so please if you're interested um uh and so please if you're interested um uh and so please if you're interested um uh check it out and let us know what you uh check it out and let us know what you uh check it out and let us know what you think and court please. think and court please. think and court please. >> Yeah. And in addition to um to those >> Yeah. And in addition to um to those >> Yeah. And in addition to um to those things uh we've mentioned the name things uh we've mentioned the name things uh we've mentioned the name Migurabashe many times both Richie and I Migurabashe many times both Richie and I Migurabashe many times both Richie and I are quite involved with Terar which is are quite involved with Terar which is are quite involved with Terar which is uh a meditation community with lots of uh a meditation community with lots of uh a meditation community with lots of amazing programs especially the joy of amazing programs especially the joy of amazing programs especially the joy of living which is one of the trainings living which is one of the trainings living which is one of the trainings that both Richie and I have done many that both Richie and I have done many that both Richie and I have done many times over. And a recent venture times over. And a recent venture times over. And a recent venture actually somewhat inspired by you Dan um actually somewhat inspired by you Dan um actually somewhat inspired by you Dan um and your work is uh a Substack and a and your work is uh a Substack and a and your work is uh a Substack and a podcast called Dharma Lab where it's podcast called Dharma Lab where it's podcast called Dharma Lab where it's just a space for us to to kind of geek just a space for us to to kind of geek just a space for us to to kind of geek out and have uh the kind of out and have uh the kind of out and have uh the kind of conversations that that we have behind conversations that that we have behind conversations that that we have behind the scenes um and just to um share those the scenes um and just to um share those the scenes um and just to um share those conversations with others. It was very conversations with others. It was very conversations with others. It was very much inspired on by us going for walks much inspired on by us going for walks much inspired on by us going for walks and just catching up about the things and just catching up about the things and just catching up about the things we're most excited about. And we we're most excited about. And we we're most excited about. And we thought, well, why not have some of thought, well, why not have some of thought, well, why not have some of these conversations in public and uh these conversations in public and uh these conversations in public and uh that's that's another one that's um that's that's another one that's um that's that's another one that's um available on Substack. And the the available on Substack. And the the available on Substack. And the the podcast is of course available in all podcast is of course available in all podcast is of course available in all the different channels. Listeners, I the different channels. Listeners, I the different channels. Listeners, I will post links for every single one of will post links for every single one of will post links for every single one of those in the show notes. Courton Richie, those in the show notes. Courton Richie, those in the show notes. Courton Richie, congratulations on your new book. Thanks congratulations on your new book. Thanks congratulations on your new book. Thanks for all the work you do in the world and for all the work you do in the world and for all the work you do in the world and thanks for coming on the show. thanks for coming on the show. thanks for coming on the show. >> Thank you, Dan. and thank you for all >> Thank you, Dan. and thank you for all >> Thank you, Dan. and thank you for all the work that you do to bring these the work that you do to bring these the work that you do to bring these teachings out to so many people. teachings out to so many people. teachings out to so many people. >> Yeah, absolutely. A real joy to to join >> Yeah, absolutely. A real joy to to join >> Yeah, absolutely. A real joy to to join you both.