The Most Important Skill Nobody Taught You | Dr. Marc Brackett

It's just like literally having empathy It's just like literally having empathy for yourself and saying, "Mark, you for yourself and saying, "Mark, you for yourself and saying, "Mark, you know, this feeling is impermanent." Yes, know, this feeling is impermanent." Yes, know, this feeling is impermanent." Yes, Mark. Mark, you know, this is like that Mark. Mark, you know, this is like that Mark. Mark, you know, this is like that rainy day. It feels like a thunderstorm, rainy day. It feels like a thunderstorm, rainy day. It feels like a thunderstorm, but tomorrow there's going to be a but tomorrow there's going to be a but tomorrow there's going to be a rainbow. I still get caught up in the rainbow. I still get caught up in the rainbow. I still get caught up in the rainy day is never going to go away. rainy day is never going to go away. rainy day is never going to go away. It's okay. Tomorrow's going to be a It's okay. Tomorrow's going to be a It's okay. Tomorrow's going to be a sunny day. sunny day. sunny day. >> That is the way to distance yourself, >> That is the way to distance yourself, >> That is the way to distance yourself, dude, bro, Mark, whatever you want to dude, bro, Mark, whatever you want to dude, bro, Mark, whatever you want to call yourself. call yourself. call yourself. >> And recognizing that emotions are >> And recognizing that emotions are >> And recognizing that emotions are ephemeral, and that's kind of the law of ephemeral, and that's kind of the law of ephemeral, and that's kind of the law of physics is freeing for me. physics is freeing for me. physics is freeing for me. >> Write it down, people. Dr. Mark Brackett, welcome to the show. Dr. Mark Brackett, welcome to the show. >> Thank you for having me. >> Thank you for having me. >> Thank you for having me. >> It's a pleasure. So, you you make a >> It's a pleasure. So, you you make a >> It's a pleasure. So, you you make a pretty strong claim here. You say pretty strong claim here. You say pretty strong claim here. You say emotion regulation is the single most emotion regulation is the single most emotion regulation is the single most important skill we can develop. Why is important skill we can develop. Why is important skill we can develop. Why is that? that? that? >> Because if you can't deal with your own >> Because if you can't deal with your own >> Because if you can't deal with your own emotions, life is pretty tough. And if emotions, life is pretty tough. And if emotions, life is pretty tough. And if you can't deal with other people's you can't deal with other people's you can't deal with other people's emotions, meaning if you're not a good emotions, meaning if you're not a good emotions, meaning if you're not a good co-regulator, I don't think many people co-regulator, I don't think many people co-regulator, I don't think many people want to be around us. want to be around us. want to be around us. >> Your belief is that this inability that >> Your belief is that this inability that >> Your belief is that this inability that many of us have or this under many of us have or this under many of us have or this under underdeveloped skill underdeveloped skill underdeveloped skill uh uh to co-regulate with others and to uh uh to co-regulate with others and to uh uh to co-regulate with others and to regulate ourselves is is a major regulate ourselves is is a major regulate ourselves is is a major contributor to the mental health crisis contributor to the mental health crisis contributor to the mental health crisis we're seeing these days. we're seeing these days. we're seeing these days. >> It is. I mean, if you think about what >> It is. I mean, if you think about what >> It is. I mean, if you think about what we're seeing these days, whether it's we're seeing these days, whether it's we're seeing these days, whether it's emotion dysregulation with anxiety or emotion dysregulation with anxiety or emotion dysregulation with anxiety or depression, or whether it's the depression, or whether it's the depression, or whether it's the inability to control oneself from, you inability to control oneself from, you inability to control oneself from, you know, doom scrolling for 6 hours every know, doom scrolling for 6 hours every know, doom scrolling for 6 hours every night. I mean, in the end, it's a form night. I mean, in the end, it's a form night. I mean, in the end, it's a form of self-regulation that most people are of self-regulation that most people are of self-regulation that most people are lacking. And in the relational aspects, lacking. And in the relational aspects, lacking. And in the relational aspects, I mean, let's think about our society I mean, let's think about our society I mean, let's think about our society today. I mean, don't you think maybe our today. I mean, don't you think maybe our today. I mean, don't you think maybe our society would be a little bit better run society would be a little bit better run society would be a little bit better run if leaders cared about how people felt if leaders cared about how people felt if leaders cared about how people felt and were concerned about the well-being and were concerned about the well-being and were concerned about the well-being of society? of society? of society? >> I do. Um, and that that the caring >> I do. Um, and that that the caring >> I do. Um, and that that the caring quotient fluctuates in Washington and in quotient fluctuates in Washington and in quotient fluctuates in Washington and in uh the seats of power around the uh the seats of power around the uh the seats of power around the country, although this is a whole country, although this is a whole country, although this is a whole digression, but I'm not sure how high it digression, but I'm not sure how high it digression, but I'm not sure how high it it has ever been. I mean, we, you know, it has ever been. I mean, we, you know, it has ever been. I mean, we, you know, we're we're a flawed species. Sometimes we're we're a flawed species. Sometimes we're we're a flawed species. Sometimes it's high, sometimes it's not, but I'm it's high, sometimes it's not, but I'm it's high, sometimes it's not, but I'm not sure how high it ever gets. not sure how high it ever gets. not sure how high it ever gets. >> Well, it hasn't been explicitly taught. >> Well, it hasn't been explicitly taught. >> Well, it hasn't been explicitly taught. And that's my whole argument that none And that's my whole argument that none And that's my whole argument that none of us really ever got an emotion of us really ever got an emotion of us really ever got an emotion education. And, you know, for my book, I education. And, you know, for my book, I education. And, you know, for my book, I did this research with thousands of did this research with thousands of did this research with thousands of people across the world. Less than 10% people across the world. Less than 10% people across the world. Less than 10% of people said they had any formal of people said they had any formal of people said they had any formal education in emotion regulation. They education in emotion regulation. They education in emotion regulation. They couldn't even define it. Uh, most of us couldn't even define it. Uh, most of us couldn't even define it. Uh, most of us can't even articulate what it even can't even articulate what it even can't even articulate what it even means. Well, what what does it mean? means. Well, what what does it mean? means. Well, what what does it mean? >> Good question. Well, you you want the >> Good question. Well, you you want the >> Good question. Well, you you want the long form or you want the short form long form or you want the short form long form or you want the short form first. first. first. >> This is a podcast. You can go as long as >> This is a podcast. You can go as long as >> This is a podcast. You can go as long as you want, baby. you want, baby. you want, baby. >> All right. Good. So, the way I like to >> All right. Good. So, the way I like to >> All right. Good. So, the way I like to think about it is that emotion think about it is that emotion think about it is that emotion regulation is a set of goals and regulation is a set of goals and regulation is a set of goals and strategies. strategies. strategies. So, we can prevent unwanted emotions. So, we can prevent unwanted emotions. So, we can prevent unwanted emotions. These are the goals. We can reduce These are the goals. We can reduce These are the goals. We can reduce difficult ones. We can initiate the ones difficult ones. We can initiate the ones difficult ones. We can initiate the ones that we want to have or help others to that we want to have or help others to that we want to have or help others to have. We can maintain our emotions. We have. We can maintain our emotions. We have. We can maintain our emotions. We can enhance our emotions. So I have an can enhance our emotions. So I have an can enhance our emotions. So I have an acronym I use prime for that. So we can acronym I use prime for that. So we can acronym I use prime for that. So we can prevent, reduce, initiate, maintain or prevent, reduce, initiate, maintain or prevent, reduce, initiate, maintain or enhance our own or other people's enhance our own or other people's enhance our own or other people's emotions. And we use strategies to do emotions. And we use strategies to do emotions. And we use strategies to do that. That we can go into in a minute that. That we can go into in a minute that. That we can go into in a minute cuz there's a lot of strategies. So cuz there's a lot of strategies. So cuz there's a lot of strategies. So emotion regulation is a set of goals and emotion regulation is a set of goals and emotion regulation is a set of goals and strategies. But there's a lot more to strategies. But there's a lot more to strategies. But there's a lot more to the formula because it's a function of the formula because it's a function of the formula because it's a function of three big things. The emotion you're three big things. The emotion you're three big things. The emotion you're feeling. So, you know, I do different feeling. So, you know, I do different feeling. So, you know, I do different things to regulate my anxiety than my things to regulate my anxiety than my things to regulate my anxiety than my stress, then my anger, then my stress, then my anger, then my stress, then my anger, then my disappointment or or to feel more disappointment or or to feel more disappointment or or to feel more pleasant emotions like happiness and pleasant emotions like happiness and pleasant emotions like happiness and contentment. Um, that's the E. The P is contentment. Um, that's the E. The P is contentment. Um, that's the E. The P is the person uh personality. I'm an the person uh personality. I'm an the person uh personality. I'm an introvert who's on the neurotic side. introvert who's on the neurotic side. introvert who's on the neurotic side. So, you know, what I need and what you So, you know, what I need and what you So, you know, what I need and what you might need are two different things, but might need are two different things, but might need are two different things, but I have a feeling you might have some of I have a feeling you might have some of I have a feeling you might have some of these traits, too. And then there's the these traits, too. And then there's the these traits, too. And then there's the context which is um you know right now context which is um you know right now context which is um you know right now uh I'm traveling so got my nice setup uh I'm traveling so got my nice setup uh I'm traveling so got my nice setup here in the hotel. I feel really good. I here in the hotel. I feel really good. I here in the hotel. I feel really good. I got a good mic. Um and so the context got a good mic. Um and so the context got a good mic. Um and so the context matters for regulation because I can't matters for regulation because I can't matters for regulation because I can't go for a run right now. I'm feeling if go for a run right now. I'm feeling if go for a run right now. I'm feeling if I'm feeling anxious during the podcast I'm feeling anxious during the podcast I'm feeling anxious during the podcast I've got to like use some cognitive I've got to like use some cognitive I've got to like use some cognitive strategies or breathing strategies. But strategies or breathing strategies. But strategies or breathing strategies. But tonight or early this morning I can use tonight or early this morning I can use tonight or early this morning I can use different strategies. So, just to put it different strategies. So, just to put it different strategies. So, just to put it together, emotion regulation is a set of together, emotion regulation is a set of together, emotion regulation is a set of goals and strategies that are a function goals and strategies that are a function goals and strategies that are a function of the emotion we're feeling, the person of the emotion we're feeling, the person of the emotion we're feeling, the person that we are, and the context we're in. that we are, and the context we're in. that we are, and the context we're in. We're going to go deep on your We're going to go deep on your We're going to go deep on your strategies because the book is loaded strategies because the book is loaded strategies because the book is loaded with them. with them. with them. But let me just ask a few more sort of But let me just ask a few more sort of But let me just ask a few more sort of highlevel questions. highlevel questions. highlevel questions. >> Sure. >> Sure. >> Sure. >> Just to make this more even more >> Just to make this more even more >> Just to make this more even more appealing to people. What are the health appealing to people. What are the health appealing to people. What are the health benefits of learning how to um regulate benefits of learning how to um regulate benefits of learning how to um regulate your emotions? And maybe we can even your emotions? And maybe we can even your emotions? And maybe we can even think about it in the inverse like what think about it in the inverse like what think about it in the inverse like what are the health dangers of not doing are the health dangers of not doing are the health dangers of not doing this? this? this? >> Well, what does disregulation lead to? >> Well, what does disregulation lead to? >> Well, what does disregulation lead to? It leads to an immune system that It leads to an immune system that It leads to an immune system that doesn't function well. It leads to doesn't function well. It leads to doesn't function well. It leads to cortisol levels that are skyrocketing in cortisol levels that are skyrocketing in cortisol levels that are skyrocketing in our body throughout the day. It leads to our body throughout the day. It leads to our body throughout the day. It leads to us, you know, choosing poor foods. It us, you know, choosing poor foods. It us, you know, choosing poor foods. It leads us to not engaging in a lot of leads us to not engaging in a lot of leads us to not engaging in a lot of physical activity in general. lots of physical activity in general. lots of physical activity in general. lots of kind of downside health benefits. On the kind of downside health benefits. On the kind of downside health benefits. On the upside, what my research and other upside, what my research and other upside, what my research and other people's research shows is that people people's research shows is that people people's research shows is that people who regulate better are better learners who regulate better are better learners who regulate better are better learners in school. They're um make more sound in school. They're um make more sound in school. They're um make more sound decisions. They have healthier and decisions. They have healthier and decisions. They have healthier and higher quality relationships. They have higher quality relationships. They have higher quality relationships. They have better physical and mental health. Um better physical and mental health. Um better physical and mental health. Um they achieve their goals in life. And I they achieve their goals in life. And I they achieve their goals in life. And I think the big one, which seems to be the think the big one, which seems to be the think the big one, which seems to be the new thing that everyone wants to talk new thing that everyone wants to talk new thing that everyone wants to talk about, is longevity. people live longer. about, is longevity. people live longer. about, is longevity. people live longer. You're going to live a healthier, You're going to live a healthier, You're going to live a healthier, happier life if you can deal with your happier life if you can deal with your happier life if you can deal with your feelings. feelings. feelings. >> On the longevity piece, my >> On the longevity piece, my >> On the longevity piece, my understanding, and you're the you're the understanding, and you're the you're the understanding, and you're the you're the expert here, so um I'll defer to you expert here, so um I'll defer to you expert here, so um I'll defer to you obviously on this. My understanding that obviously on this. My understanding that obviously on this. My understanding that on the longevity front, the the the most on the longevity front, the the the most on the longevity front, the the the most powerful the most powerful powerful the most powerful powerful the most powerful uh way to regulate your emotions is by uh way to regulate your emotions is by uh way to regulate your emotions is by having positive relationships. And those having positive relationships. And those having positive relationships. And those positive relationships are what help us positive relationships are what help us positive relationships are what help us do it. Is that is that your do it. Is that is that your do it. Is that is that your understanding? It's part of my understanding? It's part of my understanding? It's part of my understanding. I think that we have understanding. I think that we have understanding. I think that we have never put all the variables into the never put all the variables into the never put all the variables into the equation to look at, you know, equation to look at, you know, equation to look at, you know, predictive wise. you know, a lot of the predictive wise. you know, a lot of the predictive wise. you know, a lot of the studies, you know, my friend Bob studies, you know, my friend Bob studies, you know, my friend Bob Waldinger is the, you know, the big Waldinger is the, you know, the big Waldinger is the, you know, the big person to do the good life study, you person to do the good life study, you person to do the good life study, you know, and um, yes, relationships do know, and um, yes, relationships do know, and um, yes, relationships do matter, but I find in my research that, matter, but I find in my research that, matter, but I find in my research that, uh, something I wrote about earlier in uh, something I wrote about earlier in uh, something I wrote about earlier in my career seems to have the same my career seems to have the same my career seems to have the same predictive power, which is what I call predictive power, which is what I call predictive power, which is what I call permission to feel. that when we give permission to feel. that when we give permission to feel. that when we give ourselves just the permission to be true ourselves just the permission to be true ourselves just the permission to be true full feeling selves that we don't judge full feeling selves that we don't judge full feeling selves that we don't judge our feelings that we're comfortable our feelings that we're comfortable our feelings that we're comfortable being with them that alone is a master being with them that alone is a master being with them that alone is a master emotion regulation strategy emotion regulation strategy emotion regulation strategy >> I'm thinking about my longtime >> I'm thinking about my longtime >> I'm thinking about my longtime meditation teacher Joseph Goldstein one meditation teacher Joseph Goldstein one meditation teacher Joseph Goldstein one of he he teaches in these pathy phrases of he he teaches in these pathy phrases of he he teaches in these pathy phrases and one of them is it's okay by which he and one of them is it's okay by which he and one of them is it's okay by which he does not mean everything's fine he means does not mean everything's fine he means does not mean everything's fine he means it's okay to feel what you're feeling it's okay to feel what you're feeling it's okay to feel what you're feeling right now like you might not think you right now like you might not think you right now like you might not think you can withstand it but you you can just can withstand it but you you can just can withstand it but you you can just let it all in let it all in let it all in >> 100%. >> 100%. >> 100%. And uh that's you know a big project And uh that's you know a big project And uh that's you know a big project that I'm working on right now which is that I'm working on right now which is that I'm working on right now which is the follow-up research to that concept the follow-up research to that concept the follow-up research to that concept of permission to feel. Got about 70 of permission to feel. Got about 70 of permission to feel. Got about 70 studies that I've run across the world studies that I've run across the world studies that I've run across the world on it actually and um it's a powerful on it actually and um it's a powerful on it actually and um it's a powerful concept to give oneself permission to concept to give oneself permission to concept to give oneself permission to feel to live without judgment of the feel to live without judgment of the feel to live without judgment of the emotional experiences you're having. I emotional experiences you're having. I emotional experiences you're having. I mean so much of our dysregulation comes mean so much of our dysregulation comes mean so much of our dysregulation comes from the judgment around the feeling. from the judgment around the feeling. from the judgment around the feeling. I'm anxious that makes me weak. you I'm anxious that makes me weak. you I'm anxious that makes me weak. you know, I can't feel this way. It's the know, I can't feel this way. It's the know, I can't feel this way. It's the feelings we have about our feelings. You feelings we have about our feelings. You feelings we have about our feelings. You know, we call that meta emotions, but know, we call that meta emotions, but know, we call that meta emotions, but the uh you know, the shame I had as a the uh you know, the shame I had as a the uh you know, the shame I had as a kid that I was being bullied. So, I was kid that I was being bullied. So, I was kid that I was being bullied. So, I was feeling fearful, you know, with the feeling fearful, you know, with the feeling fearful, you know, with the bullying, but my shame around being a bullying, but my shame around being a bullying, but my shame around being a boy who was bullied and had a father who boy who was bullied and had a father who boy who was bullied and had a father who was a tough guy, you know, is what was a tough guy, you know, is what was a tough guy, you know, is what really got in the way of dealing with really got in the way of dealing with really got in the way of dealing with it. it. it. >> So, what you were just saying right >> So, what you were just saying right >> So, what you were just saying right there, that's that's your story. That there, that's that's your story. That there, that's that's your story. That wasn't just a a for example. wasn't just a a for example. wasn't just a a for example. >> Oh, no. That's that yeah that's that's >> Oh, no. That's that yeah that's that's >> Oh, no. That's that yeah that's that's personal. personal. personal. >> So that sounds pretty searing. Bullying >> So that sounds pretty searing. Bullying >> So that sounds pretty searing. Bullying I think is always or if not always most I think is always or if not always most I think is always or if not always most of the time quite a searing experience. of the time quite a searing experience. of the time quite a searing experience. And then when you add that into the And then when you add that into the And then when you add that into the context of your family con uh um uh context of your family con uh um uh context of your family con uh um uh configuration is that what drove you configuration is that what drove you configuration is that what drove you into this work? into this work? into this work? >> It is. Although, you know, if we want to >> It is. Although, you know, if we want to >> It is. Although, you know, if we want to go deeper into the personal, go deeper into the personal, go deeper into the personal, unfortunately, I also was abused unfortunately, I also was abused unfortunately, I also was abused sexually by my parents' best friend for sexually by my parents' best friend for sexually by my parents' best friend for 5 years of my childhood. 5 years of my childhood. 5 years of my childhood. >> And so, if you couple having 5 years of >> And so, if you couple having 5 years of >> And so, if you couple having 5 years of sexual abuse from 5 to 10 years old and sexual abuse from 5 to 10 years old and sexual abuse from 5 to 10 years old and not disclosing it with hating school and not disclosing it with hating school and not disclosing it with hating school and having two parents who love me, but you having two parents who love me, but you having two parents who love me, but you know, one was angry, couldn't deal with know, one was angry, couldn't deal with know, one was angry, couldn't deal with his life, and the other one was anxious his life, and the other one was anxious his life, and the other one was anxious and couldn't deal with her life. Where and couldn't deal with her life. Where and couldn't deal with her life. Where do you go with your feelings? You eat do you go with your feelings? You eat do you go with your feelings? You eat your feelings, you know, you scream your your feelings, you know, you scream your your feelings, you know, you scream your feelings, you cry your feelings, you do feelings, you cry your feelings, you do feelings, you cry your feelings, you do mischievous things. And uh to not go too mischievous things. And uh to not go too mischievous things. And uh to not go too far off, far off, far off, the reason why I wrote my first book the reason why I wrote my first book the reason why I wrote my first book called Permission to Feel was because I called Permission to Feel was because I called Permission to Feel was because I had one person in my life who was my had one person in my life who was my had one person in my life who was my uncle Marvin, who uh was a an amazing uncle Marvin, who uh was a an amazing uncle Marvin, who uh was a an amazing human being. He was a school teacher by human being. He was a school teacher by human being. He was a school teacher by day and a band leader by night. and he day and a band leader by night. and he day and a band leader by night. and he happened to be running a curriculum to happened to be running a curriculum to happened to be running a curriculum to teach kids about feelings in the 1980s. teach kids about feelings in the 1980s. teach kids about feelings in the 1980s. And he happened to use me as a guinea And he happened to use me as a guinea And he happened to use me as a guinea pig. And um so we sat in my backyard pig. And um so we sat in my backyard pig. And um so we sat in my backyard when I was around 11. And he'd say, "Hey when I was around 11. And he'd say, "Hey when I was around 11. And he'd say, "Hey Mark, how you feeling?" And I would say Mark, how you feeling?" And I would say Mark, how you feeling?" And I would say things like sad, angry. He was the only things like sad, angry. He was the only things like sad, angry. He was the only person who ever asked me how I felt. But person who ever asked me how I felt. But person who ever asked me how I felt. But on top of that, when I shared what I was on top of that, when I shared what I was on top of that, when I shared what I was really feeling, he didn't say, you know, really feeling, he didn't say, you know, really feeling, he didn't say, you know, "Toughen up, kiddo." Or, "I can't handle "Toughen up, kiddo." Or, "I can't handle "Toughen up, kiddo." Or, "I can't handle this cuz I'm going to have a breakdown this cuz I'm going to have a breakdown this cuz I'm going to have a breakdown because of your feelings." which was because of your feelings." which was because of your feelings." which was what would have happened at home. He's what would have happened at home. He's what would have happened at home. He's like, "Let's get through this together. like, "Let's get through this together. like, "Let's get through this together. He didn't fix me. He didn't, you know, He didn't fix me. He didn't, you know, He didn't fix me. He didn't, you know, solve my emotional difficulties. He just solve my emotional difficulties. He just solve my emotional difficulties. He just was present." And that's what we're was present." And that's what we're was present." And that's what we're hoping for or what I'm hoping for for hoping for or what I'm hoping for for hoping for or what I'm hoping for for everybody. Cuz my research shows uh only everybody. Cuz my research shows uh only everybody. Cuz my research shows uh only about onethird of us have an Uncle about onethird of us have an Uncle about onethird of us have an Uncle Marvin. Oneird of us. And only about 15% Marvin. Oneird of us. And only about 15% Marvin. Oneird of us. And only about 15% of us say it's our parent. So, um, 85% of us say it's our parent. So, um, 85% of us say it's our parent. So, um, 85% of us are growing up in homes where we of us are growing up in homes where we of us are growing up in homes where we don't believe our own parents give us don't believe our own parents give us don't believe our own parents give us permission to feel. permission to feel. permission to feel. >> I'm having a million thoughts as I'm >> I'm having a million thoughts as I'm >> I'm having a million thoughts as I'm listening to you talk. First of all, I'm listening to you talk. First of all, I'm listening to you talk. First of all, I'm really sorry that happened to you. really sorry that happened to you. really sorry that happened to you. >> I appreciate that. >> I appreciate that. >> I appreciate that. >> Not the Marvin part, the abuse part and >> Not the Marvin part, the abuse part and >> Not the Marvin part, the abuse part and the bullying. Um, that's awful. Um, the the bullying. Um, that's awful. Um, the the bullying. Um, that's awful. Um, the other thought I was having, which is we other thought I was having, which is we other thought I was having, which is we don't have to dwell on, is just I've I don't have to dwell on, is just I've I don't have to dwell on, is just I've I sometimes think about how we use sometimes think about how we use sometimes think about how we use language. We say to people, "How you language. We say to people, "How you language. We say to people, "How you doing? How you feeling?" doing? How you feeling?" doing? How you feeling?" Uh we we often say also uh take care or Uh we we often say also uh take care or Uh we we often say also uh take care or take care of yourself. take care of yourself. take care of yourself. >> Exactly. And none of we we don't >> Exactly. And none of we we don't >> Exactly. And none of we we don't actually mean any of that. It's just actually mean any of that. It's just actually mean any of that. It's just wrote. Um but it would be interesting if wrote. Um but it would be interesting if wrote. Um but it would be interesting if we as a culture started to mean it. And we as a culture started to mean it. And we as a culture started to mean it. And but sorry, you want to jump in on that? but sorry, you want to jump in on that? but sorry, you want to jump in on that? I do because I think it's interesting I do because I think it's interesting I do because I think it's interesting and I you're you're correct which is and I you're you're correct which is and I you're you're correct which is that you know in the workplace that you know in the workplace that you know in the workplace especially it's like you know we don't especially it's like you know we don't especially it's like you know we don't say how are you feeling cuz that's like say how are you feeling cuz that's like say how are you feeling cuz that's like very intimate right it's like how you very intimate right it's like how you very intimate right it's like how you doing and then before the person even doing and then before the person even doing and then before the person even responds you're already down the down responds you're already down the down responds you're already down the down you know the hallway um we don't really you know the hallway um we don't really you know the hallway um we don't really stay with people's feelings and I have stay with people's feelings and I have stay with people's feelings and I have research to show why that's the case too research to show why that's the case too research to show why that's the case too um a lot of it is people don't think um a lot of it is people don't think um a lot of it is people don't think it's worthy it's like time like really it's worthy it's like time like really it's worthy it's like time like really like I'm going to waste my time with like I'm going to waste my time with like I'm going to waste my time with this. The second is fear, which is that this. The second is fear, which is that this. The second is fear, which is that people are afraid about, you know, what people are afraid about, you know, what people are afraid about, you know, what they're going to hear. Like if I asked they're going to hear. Like if I asked they're going to hear. Like if I asked you, hey Dan, how are you feeling today? you, hey Dan, how are you feeling today? you, hey Dan, how are you feeling today? By the way, how are you feeling today? By the way, how are you feeling today? By the way, how are you feeling today? That's a whole other discussion. That's a whole other discussion. That's a whole other discussion. >> Let's blow past that. We can come back >> Let's blow past that. We can come back >> Let's blow past that. We can come back to it if you want, but we to it if you want, but we to it if you want, but we >> All right. >> I don't want to I would answer and I >> I don't want to I would answer and I will answer, but I don't want to derail will answer, but I don't want to derail will answer, but I don't want to derail the point you're trying to make. the point you're trying to make. the point you're trying to make. >> I appreciate that. But the point of me >> I appreciate that. But the point of me >> I appreciate that. But the point of me asking you is that if you were to say asking you is that if you were to say asking you is that if you were to say like most people say good, fine, okay, like most people say good, fine, okay, like most people say good, fine, okay, you know, it's like great, me too. And you know, it's like great, me too. And you know, it's like great, me too. And then we move on. But if you said, you then we move on. But if you said, you then we move on. But if you said, you know, Mark, I'm actually feeling this know, Mark, I'm actually feeling this know, Mark, I'm actually feeling this odd mixture of anxiety and frustration odd mixture of anxiety and frustration odd mixture of anxiety and frustration and overwhelm. I'm excited to be with and overwhelm. I'm excited to be with and overwhelm. I'm excited to be with you on the podcast, but I got so much you on the podcast, but I got so much you on the podcast, but I got so much going on in my life. I would, you know, going on in my life. I would, you know, going on in my life. I would, you know, like what do most people do when they like what do most people do when they like what do most people do when they hear that? They're like, uh, you know, hear that? They're like, uh, you know, hear that? They're like, uh, you know, oh gosh, really? This is why I didn't oh gosh, really? This is why I didn't oh gosh, really? This is why I didn't ask you how you felt from the beginning. ask you how you felt from the beginning. ask you how you felt from the beginning. I don't want to have to deal with this. I don't want to have to deal with this. I don't want to have to deal with this. And that leads to the third issue. Uh And that leads to the third issue. Uh And that leads to the third issue. Uh well, for parents, by the way, it's a well, for parents, by the way, it's a well, for parents, by the way, it's a lot of fear. Like, I don't if I ask my lot of fear. Like, I don't if I ask my lot of fear. Like, I don't if I ask my kid how they're really feeling and they kid how they're really feeling and they kid how they're really feeling and they tell me the truth. Yikes. What am I tell me the truth. Yikes. What am I tell me the truth. Yikes. What am I going to do with that? And the big one going to do with that? And the big one going to do with that? And the big one is skill, which is why I wrote this is skill, which is why I wrote this is skill, which is why I wrote this book, because people don't have the book, because people don't have the book, because people don't have the skills. They don't know what to do with skills. They don't know what to do with skills. They don't know what to do with that information. They get overwhelmed that information. They get overwhelmed that information. They get overwhelmed by other people's emotions, and they by other people's emotions, and they by other people's emotions, and they don't know how to work with them to don't know how to work with them to don't know how to work with them to support them. support them. support them. >> Well, so >> Well, so >> Well, so you're you're one of these guests. Um, you're you're one of these guests. Um, you're you're one of these guests. Um, this happens every once in a while where this happens every once in a while where this happens every once in a while where you your answers beg a bunch of you your answers beg a bunch of you your answers beg a bunch of questions. I'm trying to write them all questions. I'm trying to write them all questions. I'm trying to write them all down and then figure out what order I down and then figure out what order I down and then figure out what order I should ask them in. But, um, you said should ask them in. But, um, you said should ask them in. But, um, you said something right there at the end that something right there at the end that something right there at the end that kind of begs a question. So what I think kind of begs a question. So what I think kind of begs a question. So what I think a lot of people don't know what what do a lot of people don't know what what do a lot of people don't know what what do you do if you actually inquire of you do if you actually inquire of you do if you actually inquire of someone how they're feeling and they say someone how they're feeling and they say someone how they're feeling and they say something that's something that's something that's you know has some moment to it some you know has some moment to it some you know has some moment to it some power it's momentous in some way how how power it's momentous in some way how how power it's momentous in some way how how do we handle that how can we develop do we handle that how can we develop do we handle that how can we develop that skill because it's a massive public that skill because it's a massive public that skill because it's a massive public service to be Marvin for other people service to be Marvin for other people service to be Marvin for other people >> that's my vision >> that's my vision >> that's my vision um and again I think people have this um and again I think people have this um and again I think people have this weird conception that being the Uncle weird conception that being the Uncle weird conception that being the Uncle Marvin means that you're like indulging, Marvin means that you're like indulging, Marvin means that you're like indulging, you know, this is the push back we get you know, this is the push back we get you know, this is the push back we get now for the work that we do in schools. now for the work that we do in schools. now for the work that we do in schools. It's all you're indulging kids emotions. It's all you're indulging kids emotions. It's all you're indulging kids emotions. I'm like, absolutely not. This is I'm like, absolutely not. This is I'm like, absolutely not. This is emotional intelligence, not emotional emotional intelligence, not emotional emotional intelligence, not emotional indulgence. We're helping people develop indulgence. We're helping people develop indulgence. We're helping people develop the skills they need because if a kid, the skills they need because if a kid, the skills they need because if a kid, for example, comes into my classroom as for example, comes into my classroom as for example, comes into my classroom as a teacher who's just gotten bullied on a teacher who's just gotten bullied on a teacher who's just gotten bullied on the bus and feeling fearful and, you the bus and feeling fearful and, you the bus and feeling fearful and, you know, hatred and anger, they're going to know, hatred and anger, they're going to know, hatred and anger, they're going to be ruminating about that pretty much all be ruminating about that pretty much all be ruminating about that pretty much all day long and figuring out a way to get day long and figuring out a way to get day long and figuring out a way to get home safely. they're not going to be home safely. they're not going to be home safely. they're not going to be good learners. So, it's my obligation to good learners. So, it's my obligation to good learners. So, it's my obligation to help kids a be safe and b have the help kids a be safe and b have the help kids a be safe and b have the vocabulary and the strategies to deal vocabulary and the strategies to deal vocabulary and the strategies to deal with their feelings. So, I think the with their feelings. So, I think the with their feelings. So, I think the first step is, first step is, first step is, you know, if you were to say what I, you you know, if you were to say what I, you you know, if you were to say what I, you know, let's say you said, "I'm anxious know, let's say you said, "I'm anxious know, let's say you said, "I'm anxious and overwhelmed." They said, "Gosh, Dan, and overwhelmed." They said, "Gosh, Dan, and overwhelmed." They said, "Gosh, Dan, you know, it's a lot of feelings today. you know, it's a lot of feelings today. you know, it's a lot of feelings today. You know, what's going on?" Just be You know, what's going on?" Just be You know, what's going on?" Just be curious. You know, what's wrong with curious. You know, what's wrong with curious. You know, what's wrong with being curious about someone's being curious about someone's being curious about someone's experience? Again, what I want to share experience? Again, what I want to share experience? Again, what I want to share is that um people are not looking for is that um people are not looking for is that um people are not looking for someone to fix their feelings or even to someone to fix their feelings or even to someone to fix their feelings or even to give them necessarily specific advice. give them necessarily specific advice. give them necessarily specific advice. People are looking for presence and People are looking for presence and People are looking for presence and co-regulation or support. And that co-regulation or support. And that co-regulation or support. And that really should relieve people uh provide really should relieve people uh provide really should relieve people uh provide some relief to people who are listening some relief to people who are listening some relief to people who are listening thinking, you know, the reason why I'm thinking, you know, the reason why I'm thinking, you know, the reason why I'm afraid to ask people how they're feeling afraid to ask people how they're feeling afraid to ask people how they're feeling is because, you know, I'm not sure what is because, you know, I'm not sure what is because, you know, I'm not sure what to do. You don't have to do that much. to do. You don't have to do that much. to do. You don't have to do that much. You just got to be there. people You just got to be there. people You just got to be there. people actually their resilience muscle will be actually their resilience muscle will be actually their resilience muscle will be built by not giving advice by not doing built by not giving advice by not doing built by not giving advice by not doing the problem solving for kids especially the problem solving for kids especially the problem solving for kids especially it's letting them be with their feelings it's letting them be with their feelings it's letting them be with their feelings the discomfortable the discomfortable the discomfortable the discomfortable the discomfortable the discomfortable one the ones that are uncomfortable and one the ones that are uncomfortable and one the ones that are uncomfortable and um and help them think through the um and help them think through the um and help them think through the solutions to those emotions if they're solutions to those emotions if they're solutions to those emotions if they're even in need of a solution because most even in need of a solution because most even in need of a solution because most emotions right they're ephemeral we're emotions right they're ephemeral we're emotions right they're ephemeral we're not regulating all day long we go crazy not regulating all day long we go crazy not regulating all day long we go crazy it's the strong ones it's the big ones it's the strong ones it's the big ones it's the strong ones it's the big ones that you have to deal with. that you have to deal with. that you have to deal with. >> I just want to completely agree with >> I just want to completely agree with >> I just want to completely agree with you. I mean, the the the you. I mean, the the the you. I mean, the the the >> this is something I learned late in life >> this is something I learned late in life >> this is something I learned late in life that you don't need to fix. In fact, that you don't need to fix. In fact, that you don't need to fix. In fact, fixing is annoying usually um for the fixing is annoying usually um for the fixing is annoying usually um for the person who's who is being worked on. Uh person who's who is being worked on. Uh person who's who is being worked on. Uh you just want to I I often think of you just want to I I often think of you just want to I I often think of something Bnee Brown said here on this something Bnee Brown said here on this something Bnee Brown said here on this show actually about her own children and show actually about her own children and show actually about her own children and of course this applies to, of course this applies to, of course this applies to, >> you know, grown-ups too. I can't. She >> you know, grown-ups too. I can't. She >> you know, grown-ups too. I can't. She She often said she often says to her She often said she often says to her She often said she often says to her kids, or at least did at the time we did kids, or at least did at the time we did kids, or at least did at the time we did this interview. this interview. this interview. >> I can't solve the problem, but I can sit >> I can't solve the problem, but I can sit >> I can't solve the problem, but I can sit in the dark with you. And I like that u in the dark with you. And I like that u in the dark with you. And I like that u because that's what people want. We want because that's what people want. We want because that's what people want. We want somebody to just I learned this when I somebody to just I learned this when I somebody to just I learned this when I was a hospice volunteer, too. Like sit was a hospice volunteer, too. Like sit was a hospice volunteer, too. Like sit there, hold hold somebody's hand there, hold hold somebody's hand there, hold hold somebody's hand >> and sit in the light, too. I think that >> and sit in the light, too. I think that >> and sit in the light, too. I think that we underestimate the power of we underestimate the power of we underestimate the power of co-regulation of positive emotions, the co-regulation of positive emotions, the co-regulation of positive emotions, the savoring of these beautiful experiences savoring of these beautiful experiences savoring of these beautiful experiences in life that we say, "Oh, fabulous. in life that we say, "Oh, fabulous. in life that we say, "Oh, fabulous. Good. Congratulations." as opposed to Good. Congratulations." as opposed to Good. Congratulations." as opposed to really being with those pleasant really being with those pleasant really being with those pleasant feelings. feelings. feelings. >> Another I completely agree with you and >> Another I completely agree with you and >> Another I completely agree with you and another little moment of wisdom is another little moment of wisdom is another little moment of wisdom is coming to mind from another past guest coming to mind from another past guest coming to mind from another past guest on this show. She didn't say it on the on this show. She didn't say it on the on this show. She didn't say it on the show, she said it in the context of um a show, she said it in the context of um a show, she said it in the context of um a direct teaching from her to me. Uh direct teaching from her to me. Uh direct teaching from her to me. Uh there's a great dharma teacher named there's a great dharma teacher named there's a great dharma teacher named Spring Wam who one of her subsp Spring Wam who one of her subsp Spring Wam who one of her subsp specialties is teaching what are known specialties is teaching what are known specialties is teaching what are known in Buddhism as the Brahma viharas. The in Buddhism as the Brahma viharas. The in Buddhism as the Brahma viharas. The uh um these four interrelated skills. I uh um these four interrelated skills. I uh um these four interrelated skills. I would call them love. uh you could call would call them love. uh you could call would call them love. uh you could call them warmth or heart qualities, them warmth or heart qualities, them warmth or heart qualities, whatever. Uh compassion, friendliness, whatever. Uh compassion, friendliness, whatever. Uh compassion, friendliness, um uh equinimity, and then the skill she um uh equinimity, and then the skill she um uh equinimity, and then the skill she was talking about specifically that was talking about specifically that was talking about specifically that comes to mind when you said your thing comes to mind when you said your thing comes to mind when you said your thing about sitting in the light, it's called about sitting in the light, it's called about sitting in the light, it's called sympathetic joy or mood, which is just sympathetic joy or mood, which is just sympathetic joy or mood, which is just the the the >> pleasure we take in other people's >> pleasure we take in other people's >> pleasure we take in other people's success. and spring with this is a this success. and spring with this is a this success. and spring with this is a this is a uh trainable skill through um is a uh trainable skill through um is a uh trainable skill through um meditation where you envision people and meditation where you envision people and meditation where you envision people and send uh imag people imagine people send uh imag people imagine people send uh imag people imagine people savoring their success and you send them savoring their success and you send them savoring their success and you send them wishes for continued happiness and and wishes for continued happiness and and wishes for continued happiness and and success and it's it's very hard to do. success and it's it's very hard to do. success and it's it's very hard to do. That's why there's that expression every That's why there's that expression every That's why there's that expression every time a friend of mine time a friend of mine time a friend of mine >> uh succeeds I die a little bit. Um the >> uh succeeds I die a little bit. Um the >> uh succeeds I die a little bit. Um the but what Spring once said to me that has but what Spring once said to me that has but what Spring once said to me that has never gotten out of my head is you want never gotten out of my head is you want never gotten out of my head is you want to be the person that other people like to be the person that other people like to be the person that other people like to call when they have good news. to call when they have good news. to call when they have good news. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. Um I would say that it's a skill and Um I would say that it's a skill and Um I would say that it's a skill and it's that the and I teach this skill to it's that the and I teach this skill to it's that the and I teach this skill to kids and to others but kids are my kids and to others but kids are my kids and to others but kids are my favorite because they're our future. And favorite because they're our future. And favorite because they're our future. And I was just to give you an example of I was just to give you an example of I was just to give you an example of this. It was a fun one. Uh I was as I this. It was a fun one. Uh I was as I this. It was a fun one. Uh I was as I was when I do writing I often times go was when I do writing I often times go was when I do writing I often times go into the real world to do it. Meaning I into the real world to do it. Meaning I into the real world to do it. Meaning I do workshops with kids or with teachers do workshops with kids or with teachers do workshops with kids or with teachers or leaders and I you know record them or leaders and I you know record them or leaders and I you know record them and I it helps me think about my work. and I it helps me think about my work. and I it helps me think about my work. So I'm working with this group of fourth So I'm working with this group of fourth So I'm working with this group of fourth graders and I'm asking them to graders and I'm asking them to graders and I'm asking them to differentiate the feelings of excitement differentiate the feelings of excitement differentiate the feelings of excitement and elation. and elation. and elation. >> Do you want to try it >> Do you want to try it >> Do you want to try it >> verbally to distinguish them? >> verbally to distinguish them? >> verbally to distinguish them? >> Yeah. Excitement to me is jangly and >> Yeah. Excitement to me is jangly and >> Yeah. Excitement to me is jangly and elation is um has a bit more stability elation is um has a bit more stability elation is um has a bit more stability and balanced and calm in it. and balanced and calm in it. and balanced and calm in it. >> Nice. Um that was a beautiful way to >> Nice. Um that was a beautiful way to >> Nice. Um that was a beautiful way to describe them definitionally speaking, describe them definitionally speaking, describe them definitionally speaking, right? One is more anticipatory, right? right? One is more anticipatory, right? right? One is more anticipatory, right? I'm excited about going to the park. I'm I'm excited about going to the park. I'm I'm excited about going to the park. I'm excited to go on vacation. Where elation excited to go on vacation. Where elation excited to go on vacation. Where elation tends to be kind of afterward, right? tends to be kind of afterward, right? tends to be kind of afterward, right? like you're related, you know, when you like you're related, you know, when you like you're related, you know, when you watch, you know, the thing, you know, in watch, you know, the thing, you know, in watch, you know, the thing, you know, in in sports, the goal, you hit, you get in sports, the goal, you hit, you get in sports, the goal, you hit, you get the goal and you're like this sense of the goal and you're like this sense of the goal and you're like this sense of joy and kind of pride coming together. joy and kind of pride coming together. joy and kind of pride coming together. So, I'm teaching this to kids and I So, I'm teaching this to kids and I So, I'm teaching this to kids and I asked them to think about, well, what asked them to think about, well, what asked them to think about, well, what are the ways that you would help a close are the ways that you would help a close are the ways that you would help a close friend prolong their feelings of friend prolong their feelings of friend prolong their feelings of elation? And it was amazing. I mean, elation? And it was amazing. I mean, elation? And it was amazing. I mean, they got into groups and they're they got into groups and they're they got into groups and they're thinking about all like, "Give me thinking about all like, "Give me thinking about all like, "Give me scenarios where this could be true and scenarios where this could be true and scenarios where this could be true and where you would practice this and do it where you would practice this and do it where you would practice this and do it and what would it look like and sound and what would it look like and sound and what would it look like and sound like and how would you do it?" And then like and how would you do it?" And then like and how would you do it?" And then we role played it. I mean, these kids we role played it. I mean, these kids we role played it. I mean, these kids were would blow your mind. And what I were would blow your mind. And what I were would blow your mind. And what I loved about it was at the end I usually loved about it was at the end I usually loved about it was at the end I usually tell these kids you know obviously it tell these kids you know obviously it tell these kids you know obviously it was a letter that went home that you was a letter that went home that you was a letter that went home that you know professor Brackett came to visit know professor Brackett came to visit know professor Brackett came to visit your class today and your parents are your class today and your parents are your class today and your parents are going to probably ask you know what did going to probably ask you know what did going to probably ask you know what did Mark do with you in your in that class Mark do with you in your in that class Mark do with you in your in that class on emotional intelligence today and this on emotional intelligence today and this on emotional intelligence today and this one girl raises her hand she goes sir I one girl raises her hand she goes sir I one girl raises her hand she goes sir I think we learned a new form of empathy think we learned a new form of empathy think we learned a new form of empathy and I said say more she goes well we and I said say more she goes well we and I said say more she goes well we always talk about empathy you know if always talk about empathy you know if always talk about empathy you know if someone's grandma dies or their dog dies someone's grandma dies or their dog dies someone's grandma dies or their dog dies you know we have to show that we care you know we have to show that we care you know we have to show that we care and that's obviously important. But and that's obviously important. But and that's obviously important. But helping people savor their pleasant helping people savor their pleasant helping people savor their pleasant feelings, that's a really important form feelings, that's a really important form feelings, that's a really important form of empathy. of empathy. of empathy. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> My point is that you can teach this at a >> My point is that you can teach this at a >> My point is that you can teach this at a young age and when they see the value of young age and when they see the value of young age and when they see the value of it, they're going to do it more. But I it, they're going to do it more. But I it, they're going to do it more. But I didn't learn I mean, did you learn didn't learn I mean, did you learn didn't learn I mean, did you learn anything about muda or positive empathy anything about muda or positive empathy anything about muda or positive empathy when you were a kid? when you were a kid? when you were a kid? >> No. And I have to I have to say I had >> No. And I have to I have to say I had >> No. And I have to I have to say I had really touchyfey parents like hippie really touchyfey parents like hippie really touchyfey parents like hippie exhippies. Um exhippies. Um exhippies. Um >> um and I was raised in, as I often joke, >> um and I was raised in, as I often joke, >> um and I was raised in, as I often joke, the People's Republic of Massachusetts, the People's Republic of Massachusetts, the People's Republic of Massachusetts, and it was like, you know, Free to Be and it was like, you know, Free to Be and it was like, you know, Free to Be You and Me, though, that record that You and Me, though, that record that You and Me, though, that record that they played to kids back then. I may they played to kids back then. I may they played to kids back then. I may have been taught it, but I wasn't paying have been taught it, but I wasn't paying have been taught it, but I wasn't paying attention. attention. attention. >> Yeah. It should have been more explicit. >> Yeah. It should have been more explicit. >> Yeah. It should have been more explicit. Absolutely. And I agree that it's um it Absolutely. And I agree that it's um it Absolutely. And I agree that it's um it I agree with your young pupil that it it I agree with your young pupil that it it I agree with your young pupil that it it is a new a new form or a enhanced and is a new a new form or a enhanced and is a new a new form or a enhanced and advanced form of empathy. I I will also advanced form of empathy. I I will also advanced form of empathy. I I will also shout out um that you said two words shout out um that you said two words shout out um that you said two words there that can be very practical for the there that can be very practical for the there that can be very practical for the rest of us when dealing with what can rest of us when dealing with what can rest of us when dealing with what can feel like an emotional onslaught from feel like an emotional onslaught from feel like an emotional onslaught from other people. Say more. other people. Say more. other people. Say more. >> Exactly. The same thing, by the way, >> Exactly. The same thing, by the way, >> Exactly. The same thing, by the way, goes for pleasant feelings. goes for pleasant feelings. goes for pleasant feelings. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> That's how you that's how you engage in >> That's how you that's how you engage in >> That's how you that's how you engage in the muda process, right? It's like tell the muda process, right? It's like tell the muda process, right? It's like tell me more about that goal you got. I want me more about that goal you got. I want me more about that goal you got. I want to what did it feel like in your body? to what did it feel like in your body? to what did it feel like in your body? What was going on in your mind? Just I What was going on in your mind? Just I What was going on in your mind? Just I want to hear the whole story. And people want to hear the whole story. And people want to hear the whole story. And people love that. As as a matter of fact, love that. As as a matter of fact, love that. As as a matter of fact, longitudinally speaking, when we reflect longitudinally speaking, when we reflect longitudinally speaking, when we reflect back on our childhoods or even when we back on our childhoods or even when we back on our childhoods or even when we reflect back period reflect back period reflect back period and we think about the people that had and we think about the people that had and we think about the people that had the greatest impact on us, it's the the greatest impact on us, it's the the greatest impact on us, it's the people who engaged in the positive people who engaged in the positive people who engaged in the positive empathy that stand out more so than the empathy that stand out more so than the empathy that stand out more so than the people who engage in the traditional people who engage in the traditional people who engage in the traditional empathy. empathy. empathy. >> That's great. Um, that's good to know as >> That's great. Um, that's good to know as >> That's great. Um, that's good to know as a as the father of an 11-year-old as a as the father of an 11-year-old as a as the father of an 11-year-old as well. Um, the the I just want to put a well. Um, the the I just want to put a well. Um, the the I just want to put a fine point on this part of the fine point on this part of the fine point on this part of the discussion. I'm always I'm always and I discussion. I'm always I'm always and I discussion. I'm always I'm always and I don't know if this is if this is a a don't know if this is if this is a a don't know if this is if this is a a service that people actually need, but service that people actually need, but service that people actually need, but it's what I need as a person who's wired it's what I need as a person who's wired it's what I need as a person who's wired for selfishness. I want to put a for selfishness. I want to put a for selfishness. I want to put a self-interested top spin on everything self-interested top spin on everything self-interested top spin on everything we've been discussing. Um, in my we've been discussing. Um, in my we've been discussing. Um, in my experience, if I had heard this experience, if I had heard this experience, if I had heard this discussion 10 years ago, even though I discussion 10 years ago, even though I discussion 10 years ago, even though I was already kind of interested in, you was already kind of interested in, you was already kind of interested in, you know, Buddhism and personal growth, I I know, Buddhism and personal growth, I I know, Buddhism and personal growth, I I don't know that I would have understood don't know that I would have understood don't know that I would have understood why helping people savor their positive why helping people savor their positive why helping people savor their positive emotions or survive their negative ones emotions or survive their negative ones emotions or survive their negative ones would be in my interest. But I think it would be in my interest. But I think it would be in my interest. But I think it go to me it kind of well there's the go to me it kind of well there's the go to me it kind of well there's the evidence base which is what you referred evidence base which is what you referred evidence base which is what you referred to earlier with Bob Waldinger and his to earlier with Bob Waldinger and his to earlier with Bob Waldinger and his work at Harvard with the adult study for work at Harvard with the adult study for work at Harvard with the adult study for with the Harvard study for adult with the Harvard study for adult with the Harvard study for adult development which has shown over 80 plus development which has shown over 80 plus development which has shown over 80 plus years that the quality of your years that the quality of your years that the quality of your relationships determines the length and relationships determines the length and relationships determines the length and quality of your life. Um, so there's quality of your life. Um, so there's quality of your life. Um, so there's that. And then I could also just say that. And then I could also just say that. And then I could also just say from an N of one perspective, from an N of one perspective, from an N of one perspective, my having these skills to draw people my having these skills to draw people my having these skills to draw people out out out and be with them no matter what's and be with them no matter what's and be with them no matter what's happening has brought my life from black happening has brought my life from black happening has brought my life from black and white to color. and white to color. and white to color. >> And I don't do it all the I don't do it >> And I don't do it all the I don't do it >> And I don't do it all the I don't do it all the time. I once heard somebody on all the time. I once heard somebody on all the time. I once heard somebody on my team say that Dan practices what he my team say that Dan practices what he my team say that Dan practices what he preaches about 70% of the time. So um, preaches about 70% of the time. So um, preaches about 70% of the time. So um, and that felt pretty good actually. Um and that felt pretty good actually. Um and that felt pretty good actually. Um but it it really has helped. Sorry, you but it it really has helped. Sorry, you but it it really has helped. Sorry, you were trying to say something and I were trying to say something and I were trying to say something and I interrupted. interrupted. interrupted. >> No. Um you're making me think about not >> No. Um you're making me think about not >> No. Um you're making me think about not just about parent child relationships just about parent child relationships just about parent child relationships but you know colleague to colleague but you know colleague to colleague but you know colleague to colleague relationships. You know I work at a relationships. You know I work at a relationships. You know I work at a university where people are not so great university where people are not so great university where people are not so great at celebrating other people's success. at celebrating other people's success. at celebrating other people's success. you know, it's, you know, and I see you know, it's, you know, and I see you know, it's, you know, and I see couples all the time who feel inhibited, couples all the time who feel inhibited, couples all the time who feel inhibited, you know, sharing the good news they had you know, sharing the good news they had you know, sharing the good news they had because they feel like maybe their because they feel like maybe their because they feel like maybe their partner will feel like, well, I don't partner will feel like, well, I don't partner will feel like, well, I don't get the good news that you get. And so get the good news that you get. And so get the good news that you get. And so it almost is like this weird dynamic of it almost is like this weird dynamic of it almost is like this weird dynamic of power where I can't really share my power where I can't really share my power where I can't really share my pleasant feelings because I'm afraid pleasant feelings because I'm afraid pleasant feelings because I'm afraid that you can't handle the fact that I'm that you can't handle the fact that I'm that you can't handle the fact that I'm actually enjoying my life actually enjoying my life actually enjoying my life which is you know this is like we can do which is you know this is like we can do which is you know this is like we can do like a a 17p part series here. So we uh like a a 17p part series here. So we uh like a a 17p part series here. So we uh I think where we were going just for my I think where we were going just for my I think where we were going just for my own sense of staying on track, you know, own sense of staying on track, you know, own sense of staying on track, you know, is that the the regulation of emotion is that the the regulation of emotion is that the the regulation of emotion often times is focused on downregulating often times is focused on downregulating often times is focused on downregulating unpleasant feelings. And we just had a unpleasant feelings. And we just had a unpleasant feelings. And we just had a little movement here around it's not little movement here around it's not little movement here around it's not just that. It's also about supporting just that. It's also about supporting just that. It's also about supporting other people in experiencing pleasant other people in experiencing pleasant other people in experiencing pleasant emotions and also upregulating emotions and also upregulating emotions and also upregulating uh our own pleasant emotions to enjoy uh our own pleasant emotions to enjoy uh our own pleasant emotions to enjoy our lives and that matters a lot. H our lives and that matters a lot. H our lives and that matters a lot. H we'll say more about that upregulating we'll say more about that upregulating we'll say more about that upregulating our own our own positive emotions our own our own positive emotions our own our own positive emotions because I don't think we've really because I don't think we've really because I don't think we've really touched on that. We talked about how to touched on that. We talked about how to touched on that. We talked about how to get other people to savor theirs. But I get other people to savor theirs. But I get other people to savor theirs. But I think given the negativity bias that think given the negativity bias that think given the negativity bias that that is so hardwired into the human that is so hardwired into the human that is so hardwired into the human animal, it can be very easy to move past animal, it can be very easy to move past animal, it can be very easy to move past the the pleasant things in our day, the the the pleasant things in our day, the the the pleasant things in our day, the taste of our food, the the the quality taste of our food, the the the quality taste of our food, the the the quality of a tiny fleeting little interaction of a tiny fleeting little interaction of a tiny fleeting little interaction with your pharmacist or the somebody at with your pharmacist or the somebody at with your pharmacist or the somebody at the uh the barista or whatever. the uh the barista or whatever. the uh the barista or whatever. >> Uh or big big positive things. How do we >> Uh or big big positive things. How do we >> Uh or big big positive things. How do we draw those out and savor them more? draw those out and savor them more? draw those out and savor them more? Well, first we have to know what those Well, first we have to know what those Well, first we have to know what those things are. things are. things are. And so, you know, in our work, we have a And so, you know, in our work, we have a And so, you know, in our work, we have a tool we call the mood meter, which you tool we call the mood meter, which you tool we call the mood meter, which you may have seen before. It's this box of may have seen before. It's this box of may have seen before. It's this box of four colors, the yellow, the red, the four colors, the yellow, the red, the four colors, the yellow, the red, the blue, and the green. And we have an app blue, and the green. And we have an app blue, and the green. And we have an app now that helps people to use that more now that helps people to use that more now that helps people to use that more effectively. And so, yellow emotions are effectively. And so, yellow emotions are effectively. And so, yellow emotions are the high energy, pleasant ones, the the high energy, pleasant ones, the the high energy, pleasant ones, the excitement, the elation, the optimism, excitement, the elation, the optimism, excitement, the elation, the optimism, the hope. The green emotions are those the hope. The green emotions are those the hope. The green emotions are those of calm, content, tranquil, peaceful, of calm, content, tranquil, peaceful, of calm, content, tranquil, peaceful, relaxed, kind of low energy, unpleasant relaxed, kind of low energy, unpleasant relaxed, kind of low energy, unpleasant feelings. And then we got the blue and feelings. And then we got the blue and feelings. And then we got the blue and the red which are the unpleasant the red which are the unpleasant the red which are the unpleasant emotions, the anger and the anxiety emotions, the anger and the anxiety emotions, the anger and the anxiety family and the kind of sadness and family and the kind of sadness and family and the kind of sadness and loneliness family. But um so firstly loneliness family. But um so firstly loneliness family. But um so firstly like do you know what brings you into like do you know what brings you into like do you know what brings you into the yellow? the yellow? the yellow? Like what actually brings you into the Like what actually brings you into the Like what actually brings you into the yellow quadrant? Like what are the yellow quadrant? Like what are the yellow quadrant? Like what are the things that you like to do that when things that you like to do that when things that you like to do that when you're there or doing them you feel joy you're there or doing them you feel joy you're there or doing them you feel joy and excitement? People don't reflect on and excitement? People don't reflect on and excitement? People don't reflect on these things very much. What are the these things very much. What are the these things very much. What are the things that bring you into that green things that bring you into that green things that bring you into that green quadrant, the things that make you feel quadrant, the things that make you feel quadrant, the things that make you feel content? It's funny. I live now in the content? It's funny. I live now in the content? It's funny. I live now in the countryside of Connecticut. We moved countryside of Connecticut. We moved countryside of Connecticut. We moved after the pandemic to like a very rural after the pandemic to like a very rural after the pandemic to like a very rural area. I've got lots of property and area. I've got lots of property and area. I've got lots of property and hiking trails. And people always say hiking trails. And people always say hiking trails. And people always say like, "What do you love to do, Mark?" like, "What do you love to do, Mark?" like, "What do you love to do, Mark?" And I said, "Well, I you know, now that And I said, "Well, I you know, now that And I said, "Well, I you know, now that I live in the country, I love to hike." I live in the country, I love to hike." I live in the country, I love to hike." And people say, "Well, how often do you And people say, "Well, how often do you And people say, "Well, how often do you hike?" And I'm like, "I think I did two hike?" And I'm like, "I think I did two hike?" And I'm like, "I think I did two last year." last year." last year." So, it's like, So, it's like, So, it's like, you know, it's like, I don't make the you know, it's like, I don't make the you know, it's like, I don't make the time to do the things that I know bring time to do the things that I know bring time to do the things that I know bring me pleasant feelings cuz I'm busy me pleasant feelings cuz I'm busy me pleasant feelings cuz I'm busy working. And um, you know, so working. And um, you know, so working. And um, you know, so identifying those things in your life identifying those things in your life identifying those things in your life and planning them. I think you have, for and planning them. I think you have, for and planning them. I think you have, for me, one thing that I do that I've never me, one thing that I do that I've never me, one thing that I do that I've never done before is I plan my well-being done before is I plan my well-being done before is I plan my well-being time. time. time. And so my calendar, I I may look like a And so my calendar, I I may look like a And so my calendar, I I may look like a severely neurotic human being, but I severely neurotic human being, but I severely neurotic human being, but I schedule my workouts. I schedule my schedule my workouts. I schedule my schedule my workouts. I schedule my hiking time. I schedule my connection hiking time. I schedule my connection hiking time. I schedule my connection time because otherwise I'm not going to time because otherwise I'm not going to time because otherwise I'm not going to do it. My my default is, you know, do it. My my default is, you know, do it. My my default is, you know, research and analysis and, you know, research and analysis and, you know, research and analysis and, you know, blah blah blah. blah blah blah. blah blah blah. >> Yes. You're reminding me of somebody on >> Yes. You're reminding me of somebody on >> Yes. You're reminding me of somebody on my team. She didn't give me permission my team. She didn't give me permission my team. She didn't give me permission to name her, so I won't name her, but to name her, so I won't name her, but to name her, so I won't name her, but somebody on my team who talks about her somebody on my team who talks about her somebody on my team who talks about her default mode being work robot. Uh, and default mode being work robot. Uh, and default mode being work robot. Uh, and so therefore has to put go to the movies so therefore has to put go to the movies so therefore has to put go to the movies with a friend or take a walk on her with a friend or take a walk on her with a friend or take a walk on her calendar because otherwise it's just the calendar because otherwise it's just the calendar because otherwise it's just the slog. slog. slog. >> Exactly. So identifying those things >> Exactly. So identifying those things >> Exactly. So identifying those things that bring you joy is critically that bring you joy is critically that bring you joy is critically important and scheduling them really important and scheduling them really important and scheduling them really matters. I mean, I think that's just one matters. I mean, I think that's just one matters. I mean, I think that's just one thing. If everybody did that every week thing. If everybody did that every week thing. If everybody did that every week at least, you know, twice a week or at least, you know, twice a week or at least, you know, twice a week or three times a week, just found those three times a week, just found those three times a week, just found those 15-minute blocks or 1-hour blocks and 15-minute blocks or 1-hour blocks and 15-minute blocks or 1-hour blocks and just scheduled that, I think it would be just scheduled that, I think it would be just scheduled that, I think it would be a huge difference in people's lives. As a huge difference in people's lives. As a huge difference in people's lives. As a dedicated exerciser, is that even a a dedicated exerciser, is that even a a dedicated exerciser, is that even a word, exerciser? Anyway, as a dedicated word, exerciser? Anyway, as a dedicated word, exerciser? Anyway, as a dedicated one, one of the big things I've learned one, one of the big things I've learned one, one of the big things I've learned over time after decades of of hitting over time after decades of of hitting over time after decades of of hitting the gym, is that you need variety, not the gym, is that you need variety, not the gym, is that you need variety, not only to keep you interested and keep you only to keep you interested and keep you only to keep you interested and keep you coming back to the gym, but also to coming back to the gym, but also to coming back to the gym, but also to prevent injury. Which is why I want to prevent injury. Which is why I want to prevent injury. Which is why I want to talk to you about FitBod, which uh is a talk to you about FitBod, which uh is a talk to you about FitBod, which uh is a product that customizes every workout product that customizes every workout product that customizes every workout and adapts as you improve to avoid and adapts as you improve to avoid and adapts as you improve to avoid boredom and plateaus on your journey. boredom and plateaus on your journey. boredom and plateaus on your journey. I've checked out the FitBod app. It's I've checked out the FitBod app. It's I've checked out the FitBod app. It's really cool. Lots of great trainers on really cool. Lots of great trainers on really cool. Lots of great trainers on there, lots of options, uh and it's very there, lots of options, uh and it's very there, lots of options, uh and it's very easy to use. Having a trainer can be easy to use. Having a trainer can be easy to use. Having a trainer can be incredibly helpful, but not everybody incredibly helpful, but not everybody incredibly helpful, but not everybody can afford one and not everybody lives can afford one and not everybody lives can afford one and not everybody lives in an area where you have access to in an area where you have access to in an area where you have access to great trainers, which is why Fitbod is great trainers, which is why Fitbod is great trainers, which is why Fitbod is so attractive because you can get all so attractive because you can get all so attractive because you can get all the benefits of a trainer without the the benefits of a trainer without the the benefits of a trainer without the logistical hassles and without the logistical hassles and without the logistical hassles and without the massive price tag. FitBod creates a massive price tag. FitBod creates a massive price tag. 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It's just so crucial to have high quality, really so crucial to have high quality, really so crucial to have high quality, really smart, really effective, really smart, really effective, really smart, really effective, really committed people on your side as you're committed people on your side as you're committed people on your side as you're building a business. However, hiring can building a business. However, hiring can building a business. However, hiring can be a pain in the butt. You spend a lot be a pain in the butt. You spend a lot be a pain in the butt. You spend a lot of time waiting for the right candidates of time waiting for the right candidates of time waiting for the right candidates to apply, sorting through resumes, to apply, sorting through resumes, to apply, sorting through resumes, trying to get in touch with the trying to get in touch with the trying to get in touch with the potential candidates can be a nightmare, potential candidates can be a nightmare, potential candidates can be a nightmare, honestly. Which brings me to one of our honestly. Which brings me to one of our honestly. Which brings me to one of our sponsors today, Zip Recruiter. They've sponsors today, Zip Recruiter. They've sponsors today, Zip Recruiter. 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The new book is called Dealing with Feeling. uh and called Dealing with Feeling. uh and called Dealing with Feeling. uh and there it's just packed with as you say there it's just packed with as you say there it's just packed with as you say researchbacked strategies for emotion researchbacked strategies for emotion researchbacked strategies for emotion regulation which as we established at regulation which as we established at regulation which as we established at the top of this uh episode is the top of this uh episode is the top of this uh episode is >> a very important skill. Um and so >> a very important skill. Um and so >> a very important skill. Um and so number one the first strategy you number one the first strategy you number one the first strategy you mentioned is quieting the mind. Um mentioned is quieting the mind. Um mentioned is quieting the mind. Um >> so >> so >> so what do you recommend for doing that? what do you recommend for doing that? what do you recommend for doing that? >> I mean this is your whole thing. I mean >> I mean this is your whole thing. I mean >> I mean this is your whole thing. I mean I listen to you all the time. This is I listen to you all the time. This is I listen to you all the time. This is your practice right? It's the breathing your practice right? It's the breathing your practice right? It's the breathing exercises. It's the mindfulness exercises. It's the mindfulness exercises. It's the mindfulness exercises. It's the meditation. And I exercises. It's the meditation. And I exercises. It's the meditation. And I think the one thing, you know, writing a think the one thing, you know, writing a think the one thing, you know, writing a book on emotion regulation that has a book on emotion regulation that has a book on emotion regulation that has a chapter on quiet in the mind was not chapter on quiet in the mind was not chapter on quiet in the mind was not easy. By the way, given there are 3,750 easy. By the way, given there are 3,750 easy. By the way, given there are 3,750 million, you know, books on this topic. million, you know, books on this topic. million, you know, books on this topic. And so I wanted to be really clear in And so I wanted to be really clear in And so I wanted to be really clear in terms of I was very curious around the terms of I was very curious around the terms of I was very curious around the the nuance in the research because I the nuance in the research because I the nuance in the research because I mean it's pretty obvious for most of us mean it's pretty obvious for most of us mean it's pretty obvious for most of us breathing is going to deactivate our breathing is going to deactivate our breathing is going to deactivate our nervous systems. Would you agree? nervous systems. Would you agree? nervous systems. Would you agree? >> Yeah. I think that's unimpeachable. I >> Yeah. I think that's unimpeachable. I >> Yeah. I think that's unimpeachable. I mean it it's the advice every every mom mean it it's the advice every every mom mean it it's the advice every every mom gives their kid. You know take a deep gives their kid. You know take a deep gives their kid. You know take a deep breath but it actually it's there's breath but it actually it's there's breath but it actually it's there's evidence for it. evidence for it. evidence for it. >> Exactly. Except it's not great when we >> Exactly. Except it's not great when we >> Exactly. Except it's not great when we tell people that. I've I've learned that tell people that. I've I've learned that tell people that. I've I've learned that the hard way. Fair enough. Fair enough. >> Um I mean it really doesn't work. I I'm >> Um I mean it really doesn't work. I I'm >> Um I mean it really doesn't work. I I'm like everybody breathe and like that's a like everybody breathe and like that's a like everybody breathe and like that's a trigger mark. That's a trigger. Like trigger mark. That's a trigger. Like trigger mark. That's a trigger. Like okay. Um but uh but we do know it works okay. Um but uh but we do know it works okay. Um but uh but we do know it works and it's the place where we can build and it's the place where we can build and it's the place where we can build that space to deactivate. I'm a big you that space to deactivate. I'm a big you that space to deactivate. I'm a big you know I make sure I I'm clear that I know I make sure I I'm clear that I know I make sure I I'm clear that I don't think breathing is sufficient. Um, don't think breathing is sufficient. Um, don't think breathing is sufficient. Um, I always joke, you know, with my, uh, I always joke, you know, with my, uh, I always joke, you know, with my, uh, when my mother-in-law got trapped with when my mother-in-law got trapped with when my mother-in-law got trapped with us during the pandemic, I would do a lot us during the pandemic, I would do a lot us during the pandemic, I would do a lot of breathing exercises and it'd be like, of breathing exercises and it'd be like, of breathing exercises and it'd be like, I'm even clear why she needs to go home. I'm even clear why she needs to go home. I'm even clear why she needs to go home. So, you know, you know, yes, it does So, you know, you know, yes, it does So, you know, you know, yes, it does lower the temperature. It helps us to lower the temperature. It helps us to lower the temperature. It helps us to be, you know, able to access some of be, you know, able to access some of be, you know, able to access some of those cognitive strategies that I think those cognitive strategies that I think those cognitive strategies that I think are critically important. But it doesn't are critically important. But it doesn't are critically important. But it doesn't guarantee we're going to use obviously guarantee we're going to use obviously guarantee we're going to use obviously the mindfulness work is important. um the mindfulness work is important. um the mindfulness work is important. um whether it be mindfulness exercises to whether it be mindfulness exercises to whether it be mindfulness exercises to be more present or to as we talked about be more present or to as we talked about be more present or to as we talked about earlier, you know, the compassion earlier, you know, the compassion earlier, you know, the compassion focused ones. Um and so I think it's focused ones. Um and so I think it's focused ones. Um and so I think it's stating the obvious that we need to do stating the obvious that we need to do stating the obvious that we need to do that. The problem is that nobody wants that. The problem is that nobody wants that. The problem is that nobody wants to do it. And I think this we we haven't to do it. And I think this we we haven't to do it. And I think this we we haven't sold it well. And I the best example I sold it well. And I the best example I sold it well. And I the best example I have for that is here I am, you know, have for that is here I am, you know, have for that is here I am, you know, got a large amount of money from a donor got a large amount of money from a donor got a large amount of money from a donor to do a study with my undergraduate to do a study with my undergraduate to do a study with my undergraduate students to put them through different students to put them through different students to put them through different forms of mindfulness training. And we forms of mindfulness training. And we forms of mindfulness training. And we were going to pay these people and they were going to pay these people and they were going to pay these people and they didn't even need the money, but we paid didn't even need the money, but we paid didn't even need the money, but we paid them anyway to, you know, participate them anyway to, you know, participate them anyway to, you know, participate cuz we figured we'd get, you know, them cuz we figured we'd get, you know, them cuz we figured we'd get, you know, them to stick with the research. By the time to stick with the research. By the time to stick with the research. By the time the study was over, something like 70 the study was over, something like 70 the study was over, something like 70 something% dropped out. So we couldn't something% dropped out. So we couldn't something% dropped out. So we couldn't even actually analyze the data because even actually analyze the data because even actually analyze the data because there was nobody left to actually study there was nobody left to actually study there was nobody left to actually study >> and it was you know once a week working >> and it was you know once a week working >> and it was you know once a week working together through the mindfulness together through the mindfulness together through the mindfulness exercise and they had their on their own exercise and they had their on their own exercise and they had their on their own time practice time practice time practice zero uh% practice on their own. It was zero uh% practice on their own. It was zero uh% practice on their own. It was like the numbers were terrible. And when like the numbers were terrible. And when like the numbers were terrible. And when I interviewed the students afterwards I interviewed the students afterwards I interviewed the students afterwards um what do you think the number one um what do you think the number one um what do you think the number one reason why they didn't do it was? reason why they didn't do it was? reason why they didn't do it was? >> Not enough time. >> Not enough time. >> Not enough time. not enough time. That's only a piece of not enough time. That's only a piece of not enough time. That's only a piece of it. It's deeper than that. It's a waste it. It's deeper than that. It's a waste it. It's deeper than that. It's a waste of their time. >> Huh. >> Huh. >> Like there's no you can't be productive >> Like there's no you can't be productive >> Like there's no you can't be productive while you're doing mindfulness and while you're doing mindfulness and while you're doing mindfulness and breathing exercise. breathing exercise. breathing exercise. >> I see. I see. I see. I mean, >> I see. I see. I see. I mean, >> I see. I see. I see. I mean, >> so the value proposition >> so the value proposition >> so the value proposition >> to me that seems like a like a problem >> to me that seems like a like a problem >> to me that seems like a like a problem with the pedagogy like with the pedagogy like with the pedagogy like I cuz I I deal with a lot of people who I cuz I I deal with a lot of people who I cuz I I deal with a lot of people who have beefs with meditation. Um, have beefs with meditation. Um, have beefs with meditation. Um, usually if I can bend their ear for 5 usually if I can bend their ear for 5 usually if I can bend their ear for 5 minutes, they're disabused of the notion minutes, they're disabused of the notion minutes, they're disabused of the notion that it's a waste of time because that it's a waste of time because that it's a waste of time because there's a ton of science to show that there's a ton of science to show that there's a ton of science to show that it's really good for you and it's it's really good for you and it's it's really good for you and it's actually can make you more productive actually can make you more productive actually can make you more productive and focused and all that stuff. What I and focused and all that stuff. What I and focused and all that stuff. What I found is that people aren't doing it found is that people aren't doing it found is that people aren't doing it because they don't have enough time and because they don't have enough time and because they don't have enough time and habit formation is really hard. Exactly. habit formation is really hard. Exactly. habit formation is really hard. Exactly. Same thing is true with exercise or Same thing is true with exercise or Same thing is true with exercise or sleep hygiene or eating uh a healthy sleep hygiene or eating uh a healthy sleep hygiene or eating uh a healthy diet. Like the the there's a reason why diet. Like the the there's a reason why diet. Like the the there's a reason why New Year's resolutions were we bail on New Year's resolutions were we bail on New Year's resolutions were we bail on them by February. them by February. them by February. >> You're right. But I think this goes back >> You're right. But I think this goes back >> You're right. But I think this goes back to, you know, I'm a prevention scientist to, you know, I'm a prevention scientist to, you know, I'm a prevention scientist and it sometimes fascinates me how and it sometimes fascinates me how and it sometimes fascinates me how unpopular prevention science is and how unpopular prevention science is and how unpopular prevention science is and how popular, you know, clinical researches, popular, you know, clinical researches, popular, you know, clinical researches, you know, or treatment research is you know, or treatment research is you know, or treatment research is because if we keep on treating people because if we keep on treating people because if we keep on treating people with anxiety disorders or depression or with anxiety disorders or depression or with anxiety disorders or depression or whatever it is, like the number of new whatever it is, like the number of new whatever it is, like the number of new kids or adults who fall into that system kids or adults who fall into that system kids or adults who fall into that system of the need for help is never going to of the need for help is never going to of the need for help is never going to diminish. And it doesn't make it just diminish. And it doesn't make it just diminish. And it doesn't make it just makes no sense to me why we don't think makes no sense to me why we don't think makes no sense to me why we don't think oh like my other background by the way oh like my other background by the way oh like my other background by the way is I taught martial arts for 30 years is I taught martial arts for 30 years is I taught martial arts for 30 years and I have a strong background in and I have a strong background in and I have a strong background in Eastern philosophy and Buddhism myself Eastern philosophy and Buddhism myself Eastern philosophy and Buddhism myself and I would teach 5-year-olds like and I would teach 5-year-olds like and I would teach 5-year-olds like really complex meditations and really complex meditations and really complex meditations and mindfulness exercises and they loved it. mindfulness exercises and they loved it. mindfulness exercises and they loved it. But I got them when they were young and But I got them when they were young and But I got them when they were young and you know when I I they saw the you know when I I they saw the you know when I I they saw the connection between the breathing connection between the breathing connection between the breathing exercise and the mindfulness and their exercise and the mindfulness and their exercise and the mindfulness and their martial arts and their lives and I martial arts and their lives and I martial arts and their lives and I taught them that explicitly. taught them that explicitly. taught them that explicitly. But now you know as a professor of But now you know as a professor of But now you know as a professor of college students I have kids who are 17 college students I have kids who are 17 college students I have kids who are 17 18 years 18 19 years old. You know, 18 years 18 19 years old. You know, 18 years 18 19 years old. You know, they've gone through a system where the they've gone through a system where the they've gone through a system where the only thing that makes you successful is only thing that makes you successful is only thing that makes you successful is playing an instrument that no one ever playing an instrument that no one ever playing an instrument that no one ever heard or having something on your CV heard or having something on your CV heard or having something on your CV that sounds so special that like it's that sounds so special that like it's that sounds so special that like it's like, "Wow, you went to a country that I like, "Wow, you went to a country that I like, "Wow, you went to a country that I didn't even know existed to volunteer." didn't even know existed to volunteer." didn't even know existed to volunteer." there's no reinforcement for having there's no reinforcement for having there's no reinforcement for having these kinds of practices and so we're these kinds of practices and so we're these kinds of practices and so we're starting late and so we have to mindset starting late and so we have to mindset starting late and so we have to mindset you know is we have to work on that you know is we have to work on that you know is we have to work on that mindset which is before and you know the mindset which is before and you know the mindset which is before and you know the way I talk about it in my book is like way I talk about it in my book is like way I talk about it in my book is like before we can get to teaching people before we can get to teaching people before we can get to teaching people whether it's mindfulness or cognitive whether it's mindfulness or cognitive whether it's mindfulness or cognitive strategies we've got to get them to strategies we've got to get them to strategies we've got to get them to believe that all this matters believe that all this matters believe that all this matters >> yes >> yes >> yes >> they have to have that that both that >> they have to have that that both that >> they have to have that that both that emotions are data and valuable sources emotions are data and valuable sources emotions are data and valuable sources of information and that it's a learnable of information and that it's a learnable of information and that it's a learnable skill because a lot of people think of skill because a lot of people think of skill because a lot of people think of this as something that's innate like yes this as something that's innate like yes this as something that's innate like yes >> I thought this way by the way >> I thought this way by the way >> I thought this way by the way >> I mean until I got a PhD in psychology I >> I mean until I got a PhD in psychology I >> I mean until I got a PhD in psychology I just thought I was emotionally a basket just thought I was emotionally a basket just thought I was emotionally a basket case case case sort of like you know I had so much sort of like you know I had so much sort of like you know I had so much neurosis from my childhood you know it neurosis from my childhood you know it neurosis from my childhood you know it was complicated life and I would have was complicated life and I would have was complicated life and I would have strong emotions that's just part of who strong emotions that's just part of who strong emotions that's just part of who I am and I just thought okay this is I am and I just thought okay this is I am and I just thought okay this is going to be one it's like you got to going to be one it's like you got to going to be one it's like you got to live it out you live it out you live it out you And then I realized, oh, wait a minute. And then I realized, oh, wait a minute. And then I realized, oh, wait a minute. There's evidence-based strategies to There's evidence-based strategies to There's evidence-based strategies to regulate emotions. There's actually a regulate emotions. There's actually a regulate emotions. There's actually a science to this. There's skills you can science to this. There's skills you can science to this. There's skills you can learn. And um it's harder, not learn. And um it's harder, not learn. And um it's harder, not impossible, to do it as we as we impossible, to do it as we as we impossible, to do it as we as we develop. But I, you know, my big push is develop. But I, you know, my big push is develop. But I, you know, my big push is let's start this in preschool and teach let's start this in preschool and teach let's start this in preschool and teach it in a developmentally appropriate way it in a developmentally appropriate way it in a developmentally appropriate way across development. And of course, you across development. And of course, you across development. And of course, you know, now at 56, I run a center at the know, now at 56, I run a center at the know, now at 56, I run a center at the university. I've got 40 employees. I've university. I've got 40 employees. I've university. I've got 40 employees. I've got political push back on my work. Like got political push back on my work. Like got political push back on my work. Like I I still got to regulate I I still got to regulate I I still got to regulate >> and I need new strategies, but I have, >> and I need new strategies, but I have, >> and I need new strategies, but I have, you know, the muscle, you know, has you know, the muscle, you know, has you know, the muscle, you know, has already gotten that exercise that it already gotten that exercise that it already gotten that exercise that it needs to, you know, try a new technique. needs to, you know, try a new technique. needs to, you know, try a new technique. >> Well, I agree with you about teaching >> Well, I agree with you about teaching >> Well, I agree with you about teaching them while they're young. I totally them while they're young. I totally them while they're young. I totally agree with you about that. And I will agree with you about that. And I will agree with you about that. And I will say that um say that um say that um >> the people listening to this show want >> the people listening to this show want >> the people listening to this show want to hear what you're uh want to buy what to hear what you're uh want to buy what to hear what you're uh want to buy what you're selling. So, of course, you're selling. So, of course, you're selling. So, of course, >> this is this is aospitable environment. >> this is this is aospitable environment. >> this is this is aospitable environment. >> The good news, it's never too early. >> The good news, it's never too early. >> The good news, it's never too early. It's never too late. The areas of our It's never too late. The areas of our It's never too late. The areas of our brain responsible for learning these brain responsible for learning these brain responsible for learning these skills are with us until we're in our skills are with us until we're in our skills are with us until we're in our 90s. I got a letter from a 90-year-old 90s. I got a letter from a 90-year-old 90s. I got a letter from a 90-year-old man just a while back thanking me for man just a while back thanking me for man just a while back thanking me for teaching him this stuff. He said, "I teaching him this stuff. He said, "I teaching him this stuff. He said, "I only wish I learned it earlier, but only wish I learned it earlier, but only wish I learned it earlier, but you're making the last years of my life you're making the last years of my life you're making the last years of my life better." So, I promise everyone this is better." So, I promise everyone this is better." So, I promise everyone this is something you can learn today and make a something you can learn today and make a something you can learn today and make a difference. So the me breathing and difference. So the me breathing and difference. So the me breathing and mindfulness work that we discussed mindfulness work that we discussed mindfulness work that we discussed you know I have my favorites and I think you know I have my favorites and I think you know I have my favorites and I think that's part of the work is that you know that's part of the work is that you know that's part of the work is that you know my I I came from a Zen background um I my I I came from a Zen background um I my I I came from a Zen background um I learned of aa and other forms of of learned of aa and other forms of of learned of aa and other forms of of meditation and mindfulness but the one meditation and mindfulness but the one meditation and mindfulness but the one that stuck with me the most was the work that stuck with me the most was the work that stuck with me the most was the work from Tiknanhan and I just related to him from Tiknanhan and I just related to him from Tiknanhan and I just related to him as a human I liked his the way he as a human I liked his the way he as a human I liked his the way he thought about the world like his thought about the world like his thought about the world like his mindfulness practices and they work for mindfulness practices and they work for mindfulness practices and they work for me been practicing them there for 40 me been practicing them there for 40 me been practicing them there for 40 years and um I can tell you that I don't years and um I can tell you that I don't years and um I can tell you that I don't need 15. I need like two or three need 15. I need like two or three need 15. I need like two or three different ones for different purposes different ones for different purposes different ones for different purposes and it it really does its work for me. and it it really does its work for me. and it it really does its work for me. >> Okay. So, strategy number one, quieting >> Okay. So, strategy number one, quieting >> Okay. So, strategy number one, quieting the mind. Strategy number two is about the mind. Strategy number two is about the mind. Strategy number two is about redirecting your thoughts or cognitive redirecting your thoughts or cognitive redirecting your thoughts or cognitive strategies. strategies. strategies. What should we know about that? What should we know about that? What should we know about that? >> This goes back to your point about the >> This goes back to your point about the >> This goes back to your point about the negativity bias. you know, we really negativity bias. you know, we really negativity bias. you know, we really have to fight that. have to fight that. have to fight that. And um and because again, we're not And um and because again, we're not And um and because again, we're not taught from a young age to sit through, taught from a young age to sit through, taught from a young age to sit through, you know, the way people are talking to you know, the way people are talking to you know, the way people are talking to us. us. us. You know, for me, this is a big one You know, for me, this is a big one You know, for me, this is a big one because I grew up with very low because I grew up with very low because I grew up with very low self-esteem. Um, you know, I hated self-esteem. Um, you know, I hated self-esteem. Um, you know, I hated myself. I um I was too Jewish. I was too myself. I um I was too Jewish. I was too myself. I um I was too Jewish. I was too chubby. My nose was too big. I was too chubby. My nose was too big. I was too chubby. My nose was too big. I was too feminine. I mean, like, the world had a feminine. I mean, like, the world had a feminine. I mean, like, the world had a lot to say about who I was, and nobody lot to say about who I was, and nobody lot to say about who I was, and nobody really helped me sip through that and really helped me sip through that and really helped me sip through that and say, "Oo, ho, ho, ho, ho, wait a minute. say, "Oo, ho, ho, ho, ho, wait a minute. say, "Oo, ho, ho, ho, ho, wait a minute. Who who who are you to define my reality Who who who are you to define my reality Who who who are you to define my reality for me?" That's called gaslighting, by for me?" That's called gaslighting, by for me?" That's called gaslighting, by the way. And like, I don't accept that. the way. And like, I don't accept that. the way. And like, I don't accept that. I do think that most of our negative I do think that most of our negative I do think that most of our negative talk comes from gaslighting. talk comes from gaslighting. talk comes from gaslighting. Um, I think that other people just feel Um, I think that other people just feel Um, I think that other people just feel they have the right to tell you who you they have the right to tell you who you they have the right to tell you who you are and then you start believing it are and then you start believing it are and then you start believing it because no one else teaches you because no one else teaches you because no one else teaches you otherwise. And so going from that otherwise. And so going from that otherwise. And so going from that self-critic to the person who's self-critic to the person who's self-critic to the person who's self-compassionate is effortful and we self-compassionate is effortful and we self-compassionate is effortful and we have to learn the strategies you know have to learn the strategies you know have to learn the strategies you know that that that work of positive selft that that that work of positive selft that that that work of positive selft talk and that distant selft talk of like talk and that distant selft talk of like talk and that distant selft talk of like mark mark mark take the high road like my favorite take the high road like my favorite take the high road like my favorite because of my zen meditation background because of my zen meditation background because of my zen meditation background my favorite strategy for cognitive my favorite strategy for cognitive my favorite strategy for cognitive strategies is I say to myself strategies is I say to myself strategies is I say to myself consistently consistently consistently mark you know this feeling is mark you know this feeling is mark you know this feeling is impermanent and to me it's like ah I can impermanent and to me it's like ah I can impermanent and to me it's like ah I can breathe because I don't know about you breathe because I don't know about you breathe because I don't know about you but when I when bad stuff happens little but when I when bad stuff happens little but when I when bad stuff happens little bad things like you know the flight gets bad things like you know the flight gets bad things like you know the flight gets canceled and you're stuck there freaking canceled and you're stuck there freaking canceled and you're stuck there freaking out or you know whatever you're having a out or you know whatever you're having a out or you know whatever you're having a really rough day you get news that really rough day you get news that really rough day you get news that something didn't work out at work and something didn't work out at work and something didn't work out at work and you just go into that rumin ruminative you just go into that rumin ruminative you just go into that rumin ruminative state which is my default um I take that state which is my default um I take that state which is my default um I take that breath which gives me access to the breath which gives me access to the breath which gives me access to the cognitive strategies and I say Mark cognitive strategies and I say Mark cognitive strategies and I say Mark today a rainy today a rainy today a rainy But it's okay. Tomorrow's going to be a But it's okay. Tomorrow's going to be a But it's okay. Tomorrow's going to be a sunny day. And recognizing that emotions sunny day. And recognizing that emotions sunny day. And recognizing that emotions are ephemeral are ephemeral are ephemeral and that um that's kind of the law of and that um that's kind of the law of and that um that's kind of the law of physics is is is freeing for me. And I physics is is is freeing for me. And I physics is is is freeing for me. And I don't think many people take the don't think many people take the don't think many people take the opportunity to adopt that mindset around opportunity to adopt that mindset around opportunity to adopt that mindset around their emotions. They get stuck in it and their emotions. They get stuck in it and their emotions. They get stuck in it and then they feel as if you know the then they feel as if you know the then they feel as if you know the emotion they the biggest challenge I'm emotion they the biggest challenge I'm emotion they the biggest challenge I'm seeing today by the way this is with seeing today by the way this is with seeing today by the way this is with young teenagers like I do a lot of work young teenagers like I do a lot of work young teenagers like I do a lot of work in high schools and I can't tell you how in high schools and I can't tell you how in high schools and I can't tell you how many high school students come up to me many high school students come up to me many high school students come up to me you know they don't want to say this in you know they don't want to say this in you know they don't want to say this in front of their peers but they say it front of their peers but they say it front of their peers but they say it privately and they say Mark I don't feel privately and they say Mark I don't feel privately and they say Mark I don't feel anxious I am anxiety they define their anxious I am anxiety they define their anxious I am anxiety they define their whole body and life by the emotion and whole body and life by the emotion and whole body and life by the emotion and there's where the problem lies they're there's where the problem lies they're there's where the problem lies they're not anxiety or not your emotions. Your not anxiety or not your emotions. Your not anxiety or not your emotions. Your emotions are experiences. Some of us emotions are experiences. Some of us emotions are experiences. Some of us have stronger experiences than others have stronger experiences than others have stronger experiences than others and sometimes they're more intense or and sometimes they're more intense or and sometimes they're more intense or you know more frequent than others. But you know more frequent than others. But you know more frequent than others. But emotions are ephemeral and if we can emotions are ephemeral and if we can emotions are ephemeral and if we can adopt that mindset and recognize that adopt that mindset and recognize that adopt that mindset and recognize that when we're experiencing the strong when we're experiencing the strong when we're experiencing the strong unpleasant ones, life is going to be a unpleasant ones, life is going to be a unpleasant ones, life is going to be a lot better for us. lot better for us. lot better for us. >> So this you said this was your favorite >> So this you said this was your favorite >> So this you said this was your favorite strategy for interrupting rumination. Is strategy for interrupting rumination. Is strategy for interrupting rumination. Is this um is the name for this strategy this um is the name for this strategy this um is the name for this strategy distance distance distance selft talk? selft talk? selft talk? >> It is just by because distance selft >> It is just by because distance selft >> It is just by because distance selft talk is is just like literally having talk is is just like literally having talk is is just like literally having empathy for yourself and saying mark you empathy for yourself and saying mark you empathy for yourself and saying mark you know this feeling is impermanent. Yes know this feeling is impermanent. Yes know this feeling is impermanent. Yes Mark it's true today Mark you know this Mark it's true today Mark you know this Mark it's true today Mark you know this is like that it's like that rainy day it is like that it's like that rainy day it is like that it's like that rainy day it feels like a thunderstorm but tomorrow feels like a thunderstorm but tomorrow feels like a thunderstorm but tomorrow there's going to be a rainbow so it's there's going to be a rainbow so it's there's going to be a rainbow so it's okay. And I have to say like again I I okay. And I have to say like again I I okay. And I have to say like again I I repeat this I'm 56. Like I still get repeat this I'm 56. Like I still get repeat this I'm 56. Like I still get caught up in the rainy day is never caught up in the rainy day is never caught up in the rainy day is never going to go away. And then I I even take going to go away. And then I I even take going to go away. And then I I even take like a double self a double step back like a double self a double step back like a double self a double step back and I'm like, "Mark, last week you had and I'm like, "Mark, last week you had and I'm like, "Mark, last week you had that really shitty experience and you that really shitty experience and you that really shitty experience and you were in that same spot and the next day were in that same spot and the next day were in that same spot and the next day everything was fine. Remember that?" Oh, everything was fine. Remember that?" Oh, everything was fine. Remember that?" Oh, yeah. Yeah, you're right. Okay. I mean, yeah. Yeah, you're right. Okay. I mean, yeah. Yeah, you're right. Okay. I mean, it's it's work. Maybe I just need a lot it's it's work. Maybe I just need a lot it's it's work. Maybe I just need a lot more work than other people, but from my more work than other people, but from my more work than other people, but from my exposure in the world, I don't think so. exposure in the world, I don't think so. exposure in the world, I don't think so. >> Yeah, dude. Yes. Um Um But I uh Yes. I >> Yeah, dude. Yes. Um Um But I uh Yes. I >> Yeah, dude. Yes. Um Um But I uh Yes. I completely identify with what you're completely identify with what you're completely identify with what you're describing about yourself. And just to describing about yourself. And just to describing about yourself. And just to be technical here, you added on top of be technical here, you added on top of be technical here, you added on top of distance self-t talk, temporal distance. distance self-t talk, temporal distance. distance self-t talk, temporal distance. >> That's another form of it, which is >> That's another form of it, which is >> That's another form of it, which is that's when you say to yourself, Mark, that's when you say to yourself, Mark, that's when you say to yourself, Mark, is this really going to be something is this really going to be something is this really going to be something that's problematic in a week from now? that's problematic in a week from now? that's problematic in a week from now? Like, does this really matter? Like I Like, does this really matter? Like I Like, does this really matter? Like I have I do a lot of that in my have I do a lot of that in my have I do a lot of that in my relationship. I've been with my partner relationship. I've been with my partner relationship. I've been with my partner for 31 years and we have very different for 31 years and we have very different for 31 years and we have very different lives and different styles of being and lives and different styles of being and lives and different styles of being and um we have different values about buying um we have different values about buying um we have different values about buying things you know and sort of like it's things you know and sort of like it's things you know and sort of like it's you know part of it is like really you you know part of it is like really you you know part of it is like really you really need that and then I have to say really need that and then I have to say really need that and then I have to say Mark like you know you're not your Mark like you know you're not your Mark like you know you're not your partner's father let it go you know or I partner's father let it go you know or I partner's father let it go you know or I have to say something like is this have to say something like is this have to say something like is this really like going to impact our finances really like going to impact our finances really like going to impact our finances you know no let it go you know so that you know no let it go you know so that you know no let it go you know so that kind of forwardlooking, forward thinking kind of forwardlooking, forward thinking kind of forwardlooking, forward thinking strategy. Very, very helpful. strategy. Very, very helpful. strategy. Very, very helpful. Reappraisal. Reappraisal. Reappraisal. Oh my gosh, how critical is that? Oh my gosh, how critical is that? Oh my gosh, how critical is that? Instead of going right for the blame, Instead of going right for the blame, Instead of going right for the blame, can you just try to see it from a can you just try to see it from a can you just try to see it from a different lens or a different different lens or a different different lens or a different perspective for a minute? It may not be perspective for a minute? It may not be perspective for a minute? It may not be the right answer, but give someone the the right answer, but give someone the the right answer, but give someone the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they're not benefit of the doubt. Maybe they're not benefit of the doubt. Maybe they're not trying to sabotage you. Maybe they're trying to sabotage you. Maybe they're trying to sabotage you. Maybe they're not intentionally late cuz they don't not intentionally late cuz they don't not intentionally late cuz they don't respect you. You know, maybe they just respect you. You know, maybe they just respect you. You know, maybe they just really hit traffic. I want to talk about really hit traffic. I want to talk about really hit traffic. I want to talk about reappraisal in a second but just to say reappraisal in a second but just to say reappraisal in a second but just to say on distance selft talk which includes on distance selft talk which includes on distance selft talk which includes the kind of bonus level of temporal the kind of bonus level of temporal the kind of bonus level of temporal distancing. distancing. distancing. >> Just want to point out to the audience >> Just want to point out to the audience >> Just want to point out to the audience that the key move that Mark was making that the key move that Mark was making that the key move that Mark was making was using his own name. That is the way was using his own name. That is the way was using his own name. That is the way to distance yourself. Dude, bro, Mark, to distance yourself. Dude, bro, Mark, to distance yourself. Dude, bro, Mark, whatever you want to call yourself. It whatever you want to call yourself. It whatever you want to call yourself. It you it it allows you to harness this you it it allows you to harness this you it it allows you to harness this ability we all have underdeveloped but ability we all have underdeveloped but ability we all have underdeveloped but there anyway to give good advice uh when there anyway to give good advice uh when there anyway to give good advice uh when appropriate uh to children, mentees, appropriate uh to children, mentees, appropriate uh to children, mentees, friends, whatever. You can do that to friends, whatever. You can do that to friends, whatever. You can do that to yourself. yourself. yourself. >> Correct. >> Correct. >> Correct. >> You can be your uncle Marvin. >> You can be your uncle Marvin. >> You can be your uncle Marvin. >> Well, by the way, I love that you just >> Well, by the way, I love that you just >> Well, by the way, I love that you just said that because a big part of my said that because a big part of my said that because a big part of my training now is, you know, because training now is, you know, because training now is, you know, because twothirds of us didn't have the uncle twothirds of us didn't have the uncle twothirds of us didn't have the uncle Marvin. A lot of people and my research Marvin. A lot of people and my research Marvin. A lot of people and my research shows that if you have the Uncle Marvin, shows that if you have the Uncle Marvin, shows that if you have the Uncle Marvin, you tend to be more successful in life. you tend to be more successful in life. you tend to be more successful in life. You tend to have greater life You tend to have greater life You tend to have greater life satisfaction, greater purpose and satisfaction, greater purpose and satisfaction, greater purpose and meaning, better physical health, better meaning, better physical health, better meaning, better physical health, better mental health, you actually sleep better mental health, you actually sleep better mental health, you actually sleep better at night. I mean, big benefits to having at night. I mean, big benefits to having at night. I mean, big benefits to having grown up with that Uncle Marvin. But grown up with that Uncle Marvin. But grown up with that Uncle Marvin. But then twothirds of the people in the room then twothirds of the people in the room then twothirds of the people in the room thinking like, look at me. Like maybe thinking like, look at me. Like maybe thinking like, look at me. Like maybe that's why I'm so messed up. Like I that's why I'm so messed up. Like I that's why I'm so messed up. Like I didn't have the Uncle Marvin. And I have didn't have the Uncle Marvin. And I have didn't have the Uncle Marvin. And I have to remind people like you got to look in to remind people like you got to look in to remind people like you got to look in the mirror and be your own Uncle Marvin. the mirror and be your own Uncle Marvin. the mirror and be your own Uncle Marvin. >> Yes. I just think that's so important. >> Yes. I just think that's so important. >> Yes. I just think that's so important. We we can and I'm here for this to a We we can and I'm here for this to a We we can and I'm here for this to a certain amount to a certain extent certain amount to a certain extent certain amount to a certain extent bemoone our life circumstances. Um and bemoone our life circumstances. Um and bemoone our life circumstances. Um and we've all got challenging ones. Some of we've all got challenging ones. Some of we've all got challenging ones. Some of us way more than others. And that's all us way more than others. And that's all us way more than others. And that's all true. Nobody's trying to take that away true. Nobody's trying to take that away true. Nobody's trying to take that away from you or gaslight you. And you you from you or gaslight you. And you you from you or gaslight you. And you you still have this opportunity right now to still have this opportunity right now to still have this opportunity right now to be your own supportive anthroponist. be your own supportive anthroponist. be your own supportive anthroponist. >> Yes. By the way, just for the for the >> Yes. By the way, just for the for the >> Yes. By the way, just for the for the research um to plug a little bit of my research um to plug a little bit of my research um to plug a little bit of my research here that will help clarify research here that will help clarify research here that will help clarify what that means like is being uncle what that means like is being uncle what that means like is being uncle Marvin like okay that sounds complicated Marvin like okay that sounds complicated Marvin like okay that sounds complicated like what is that? My research shows like what is that? My research shows like what is that? My research shows three things that Uncle Marvin's have. three things that Uncle Marvin's have. three things that Uncle Marvin's have. And by the way, they can be aunt Maras, And by the way, they can be aunt Maras, And by the way, they can be aunt Maras, they could be grandparents, they could they could be grandparents, they could they could be grandparents, they could be coaches. This is just people that we be coaches. This is just people that we be coaches. This is just people that we want to be around that are are emotional want to be around that are are emotional want to be around that are are emotional allies, as I call it. Three things, allies, as I call it. Three things, allies, as I call it. Three things, non-judgmental, good listeners who show non-judgmental, good listeners who show non-judgmental, good listeners who show empathy and compassion. That's it. And empathy and compassion. That's it. And empathy and compassion. That's it. And by the way, that shows up by the way, that shows up by the way, that shows up cross-culturally. cross-culturally. cross-culturally. um you know where there's some there are um you know where there's some there are um you know where there's some there are cultural differences and strategies that cultural differences and strategies that cultural differences and strategies that people use to regulate or how people people use to regulate or how people people use to regulate or how people express emotions but in terms of people express emotions but in terms of people express emotions but in terms of people reflecting on their childhoods and reflecting on their childhoods and reflecting on their childhoods and thinking about the people that created thinking about the people that created thinking about the people that created the conditions for them to have the conditions for them to have the conditions for them to have permission to feel I have not found permission to feel I have not found permission to feel I have not found cross-cultural differences people say cross-cultural differences people say cross-cultural differences people say non-judgmental non-judgmental non-judgmental good listeners who show empathy and good listeners who show empathy and good listeners who show empathy and compassion compassion compassion >> write it down people >> write it down people >> write it down people you know what gives you peace of mind you know what gives you peace of mind you know what gives you peace of mind financial security I can tell do, and financial security I can tell do, and financial security I can tell do, and you've probably heard me say this you've probably heard me say this you've probably heard me say this before, I have uh spent a lot of my before, I have uh spent a lot of my before, I have uh spent a lot of my life, unfortunately, worrying about life, unfortunately, worrying about life, unfortunately, worrying about financial security, and I'm always on financial security, and I'm always on financial security, and I'm always on the lookout for new products and the lookout for new products and the lookout for new products and services that can help in this regard. I services that can help in this regard. I services that can help in this regard. I think this is true for many of us. One think this is true for many of us. One think this is true for many of us. One of the biggest sources of background of the biggest sources of background of the biggest sources of background stress for many of us is money, stress for many of us is money, stress for many of us is money, specifically worrying about whether specifically worrying about whether specifically worrying about whether we've done enough to prepare for the we've done enough to prepare for the we've done enough to prepare for the future. This mindset is kind of the future. This mindset is kind of the future. This mindset is kind of the opposite of uh inner peace and opposite of uh inner peace and opposite of uh inner peace and contentment. And that's why I'm going to contentment. And that's why I'm going to contentment. And that's why I'm going to tell you today about Gainbridge. tell you today about Gainbridge. tell you today about Gainbridge. Gainbridge offers financial products Gainbridge offers financial products Gainbridge offers financial products with a guaranteed rate. And I want to with a guaranteed rate. And I want to with a guaranteed rate. And I want to emphasize that word guaranteed. You're emphasize that word guaranteed. You're emphasize that word guaranteed. You're not guessing. You're not refreshing an not guessing. You're not refreshing an not guessing. You're not refreshing an app wondering what happened overnight. app wondering what happened overnight. app wondering what happened overnight. You know exactly what growth you're You know exactly what growth you're You know exactly what growth you're going to get right from the start. You going to get right from the start. You going to get right from the start. You choose the term. There are no hidden choose the term. There are no hidden choose the term. There are no hidden fees. And it's refreshingly simple. They fees. And it's refreshingly simple. They fees. And it's refreshingly simple. They have options for whatever stage you're have options for whatever stage you're have options for whatever stage you're in. Uh one that's great for saving in. Uh one that's great for saving in. Uh one that's great for saving toward a specific goal, a house, travel, toward a specific goal, a house, travel, toward a specific goal, a house, travel, your children's future, and another your children's future, and another your children's future, and another designed for retirement planning. The designed for retirement planning. The designed for retirement planning. The idea is you set it up and then you don't idea is you set it up and then you don't idea is you set it up and then you don't have to think about it. That's the peace have to think about it. That's the peace have to think about it. That's the peace of mind part. It's not only about of mind part. It's not only about of mind part. It's not only about growing your money. It's about releasing growing your money. It's about releasing growing your money. It's about releasing an element of financial anxiety. Your an element of financial anxiety. Your an element of financial anxiety. Your money grows. You know exactly how much. money grows. You know exactly how much. money grows. You know exactly how much. And then you get on with your life. And then you get on with your life. And then you get on with your life. Gainbridge. Let your money work for you. Gainbridge. Let your money work for you. Gainbridge. Let your money work for you. Learn more at gamebridge.com. Learn more at gamebridge.com. Learn more at gamebridge.com. Rates subject to change. Right before I came into the studio Right before I came into the studio today to record these ads, I had a today to record these ads, I had a today to record these ads, I had a shave. And I had a shave with a Hensen shave. And I had a shave with a Hensen shave. And I had a shave with a Hensen razor. Here's something interesting most razor. Here's something interesting most razor. Here's something interesting most people don't realize. Modern razors have people don't realize. Modern razors have people don't realize. Modern razors have quietly taught us to press harder than quietly taught us to press harder than quietly taught us to press harder than we should when we're shaving. And that's we should when we're shaving. And that's we should when we're shaving. And that's not really a bad habit. It's a design not really a bad habit. It's a design not really a bad habit. It's a design thing. Most mainstream cartridge razors thing. Most mainstream cartridge razors thing. Most mainstream cartridge razors use springs and flexible blade mounts. use springs and flexible blade mounts. use springs and flexible blade mounts. The idea is that flexibility helps the The idea is that flexibility helps the The idea is that flexibility helps the razor adapt to the contours of your razor adapt to the contours of your razor adapt to the contours of your face. But when a blade can move slightly face. But when a blade can move slightly face. But when a blade can move slightly while it's cutting hair, the cutting while it's cutting hair, the cutting while it's cutting hair, the cutting angle can shift midstroke. Ever feel angle can shift midstroke. Ever feel angle can shift midstroke. Ever feel that slight tugging sensation while that slight tugging sensation while that slight tugging sensation while you're shaving? That tiny bit of you're shaving? That tiny bit of you're shaving? That tiny bit of movement is usually what's causing it. movement is usually what's causing it. movement is usually what's causing it. So, what do most of us do? We press a So, what do most of us do? We press a So, what do most of us do? We press a little harder to steady it. But the more little harder to steady it. But the more little harder to steady it. But the more pressure means more friction, and that's pressure means more friction, and that's pressure means more friction, and that's where irritation starts to creep in. where irritation starts to creep in. where irritation starts to creep in. Hensen takes a different approach. Their Hensen takes a different approach. Their Hensen takes a different approach. Their razors were designed in Canada by razors were designed in Canada by razors were designed in Canada by aerospace machinists. And instead of aerospace machinists. And instead of aerospace machinists. And instead of allowing the blade to move, they fully allowing the blade to move, they fully allowing the blade to move, they fully support it and precisely control the support it and precisely control the support it and precisely control the cutting angle. No springs, no pivots, no cutting angle. No springs, no pivots, no cutting angle. No springs, no pivots, no lubrication strips, managing side lubrication strips, managing side lubrication strips, managing side effects, just fixed geometry that works effects, just fixed geometry that works effects, just fixed geometry that works consistently without needing extra consistently without needing extra consistently without needing extra pressure. Like I said, I just used my pressure. Like I said, I just used my pressure. Like I said, I just used my Henson razor along with the uh shaving Henson razor along with the uh shaving Henson razor along with the uh shaving cream that they also make. Super smooth, cream that they also make. Super smooth, cream that they also make. Super smooth, super easy, and kind of fun and old super easy, and kind of fun and old super easy, and kind of fun and old school. You have to do a little bit of school. You have to do a little bit of school. You have to do a little bit of assembly. I mean, it takes 30 seconds. assembly. I mean, it takes 30 seconds. assembly. I mean, it takes 30 seconds. Even I could do it. You actually put the Even I could do it. You actually put the Even I could do it. You actually put the razor blade in safely. Even I didn't get razor blade in safely. Even I didn't get razor blade in safely. Even I didn't get hurt doing it. Yeah. It makes the hurt doing it. Yeah. It makes the hurt doing it. Yeah. It makes the shaving experience cool. If you want to shaving experience cool. If you want to shaving experience cool. If you want to try it, they're offering a 100 blades try it, they're offering a 100 blades try it, they're offering a 100 blades free with the purchase of a razor. Just free with the purchase of a razor. Just free with the purchase of a razor. Just head to hensenshaving.com/happier head to hensenshaving.com/happier head to hensenshaving.com/happier or use the code happier at checkout. Okay, so reappraisal. Okay, so reappraisal. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> Um, >> Um, another Josephism. Don't side with another Josephism. Don't side with another Josephism. Don't side with yourself. yourself. yourself. >> Nice. I love that. Yeah. I mean, the >> Nice. I love that. Yeah. I mean, the >> Nice. I love that. Yeah. I mean, the reappraisal piece for me, I actually reappraisal piece for me, I actually reappraisal piece for me, I actually love reappraisal and I love teaching it love reappraisal and I love teaching it love reappraisal and I love teaching it because I think it's actually one of the because I think it's actually one of the because I think it's actually one of the most creative emotion regulation most creative emotion regulation most creative emotion regulation strategies there is and I love helping strategies there is and I love helping strategies there is and I love helping kids think about it. Like, give me give kids think about it. Like, give me give kids think about it. Like, give me give me five alternative ways of thinking me five alternative ways of thinking me five alternative ways of thinking about that particular experience and about that particular experience and about that particular experience and they love the challenge. And so, this is they love the challenge. And so, this is they love the challenge. And so, this is where I think there's a beautiful where I think there's a beautiful where I think there's a beautiful intersection of emotional intelligence intersection of emotional intelligence intersection of emotional intelligence and creativity. Sharon Salsberg, Joseph and creativity. Sharon Salsberg, Joseph and creativity. Sharon Salsberg, Joseph Goldstein's longtime um uh partner in Goldstein's longtime um uh partner in Goldstein's longtime um uh partner in crime in the meditation world, has this crime in the meditation world, has this crime in the meditation world, has this riff, this rap that she goes on riff, this rap that she goes on riff, this rap that she goes on sometimes um about sometimes um about sometimes um about how we all think certainty is going to how we all think certainty is going to how we all think certainty is going to help. That's what we we crave certainty help. That's what we we crave certainty help. That's what we we crave certainty in a world in constant non-negotiable in a world in constant non-negotiable in a world in constant non-negotiable flux, which is scary. So we we we we flux, which is scary. So we we we we flux, which is scary. So we we we we find refuge we think in certainty but find refuge we think in certainty but find refuge we think in certainty but actually um thinking we know how things actually um thinking we know how things actually um thinking we know how things are that they're terrible and will never are that they're terrible and will never are that they're terrible and will never change makes us feel worse. It's that change makes us feel worse. It's that change makes us feel worse. It's that think of five different explanations think of five different explanations think of five different explanations uh that makes you feel that's how uh that makes you feel that's how uh that makes you feel that's how uncertainty actually or curiosity feels uncertainty actually or curiosity feels uncertainty actually or curiosity feels safer actually when you do it. 100% safer actually when you do it. 100% safer actually when you do it. 100% agree with that and the I mean you just agree with that and the I mean you just agree with that and the I mean you just that's also the you know certainty that's also the you know certainty that's also the you know certainty control this is why we get anxious control this is why we get anxious control this is why we get anxious because we can't make the prediction and because we can't make the prediction and because we can't make the prediction and we want to make that we want to be clear we want to make that we want to be clear we want to make that we want to be clear the pandemic I want to be clear when is the pandemic I want to be clear when is the pandemic I want to be clear when is the office opening I want to be clear the office opening I want to be clear the office opening I want to be clear when am I going to be able to take off when am I going to be able to take off when am I going to be able to take off the mask I want to be clear you know all the mask I want to be clear you know all the mask I want to be clear you know all that kind of stuff and for things that that kind of stuff and for things that that kind of stuff and for things that we have no control over you know it this we have no control over you know it this we have no control over you know it this is where all these strategies come into is where all these strategies come into is where all these strategies come into play I remember my favorite one during play I remember my favorite one during play I remember my favorite one during the pandemic. Remember that that like it the pandemic. Remember that that like it the pandemic. Remember that that like it was like maybe May and it was like was like maybe May and it was like was like maybe May and it was like nobody knew what the heck was happening. nobody knew what the heck was happening. nobody knew what the heck was happening. Everybody was freaking out and we're Everybody was freaking out and we're Everybody was freaking out and we're spraying our groceries with Windex. I spraying our groceries with Windex. I spraying our groceries with Windex. I mean it was nuts. And um the stock mean it was nuts. And um the stock mean it was nuts. And um the stock market's crashing. I mean it was just market's crashing. I mean it was just market's crashing. I mean it was just like you're watching the news and it's like you're watching the news and it's like you're watching the news and it's like you know it's really horrific. And like you know it's really horrific. And like you know it's really horrific. And I would just sit there thinking, you I would just sit there thinking, you I would just sit there thinking, you know, I started singing songs like we know, I started singing songs like we know, I started singing songs like we all go down together, all go down together, all go down together, you know, like Mark, you're pretty you know, like Mark, you're pretty you know, like Mark, you're pretty selfish thinking like you're the only selfish thinking like you're the only selfish thinking like you're the only one who's suffering right now. You're one who's suffering right now. You're one who's suffering right now. You're actually doing pretty good. You got a actually doing pretty good. You got a actually doing pretty good. You got a good job. You have a home, you know, you good job. You have a home, you know, you good job. You have a home, you know, you got a little home office. Like actually got a little home office. Like actually got a little home office. Like actually life is pretty good. How about some life is pretty good. How about some life is pretty good. How about some gratitude, you know? And I switched from gratitude, you know? And I switched from gratitude, you know? And I switched from all the negativity to gratitude. And it all the negativity to gratitude. And it all the negativity to gratitude. And it was eye opening for me. And I actually was eye opening for me. And I actually was eye opening for me. And I actually did a study on gratitude during the time did a study on gratitude during the time did a study on gratitude during the time because I was very curious how people because I was very curious how people because I was very curious how people thought about gratitude during the thought about gratitude during the thought about gratitude during the pandemic. And it was, you know, you want pandemic. And it was, you know, you want pandemic. And it was, you know, you want the little results of that study were the little results of that study were the little results of that study were that, you know, people just rely on like that, you know, people just rely on like that, you know, people just rely on like they think about I'm grateful I have a they think about I'm grateful I have a they think about I'm grateful I have a family. I'm grateful I have food. There family. I'm grateful I have food. There family. I'm grateful I have food. There was no real gratitude for things like was no real gratitude for things like was no real gratitude for things like the doctors and nurses who are putting the doctors and nurses who are putting the doctors and nurses who are putting their lives at risk to help people. you their lives at risk to help people. you their lives at risk to help people. you know, the people who had to like have know, the people who had to like have know, the people who had to like have jobs where they're, you know, cooking jobs where they're, you know, cooking jobs where they're, you know, cooking for people, you know, in, you know, for people, you know, in, you know, for people, you know, in, you know, precarious waters or the delivery precarious waters or the delivery precarious waters or the delivery people. And I think that oftentimes people. And I think that oftentimes people. And I think that oftentimes taking a moment, you know, it's another taking a moment, you know, it's another taking a moment, you know, it's another strategy, right, of cognitive strategy strategy, right, of cognitive strategy strategy, right, of cognitive strategy of gratitude really does make a of gratitude really does make a of gratitude really does make a difference as we know probably the difference as we know probably the difference as we know probably the strongest research is in the field of strongest research is in the field of strongest research is in the field of gratitude. gratitude. gratitude. >> Tell me about the how of gratitude. If >> Tell me about the how of gratitude. If >> Tell me about the how of gratitude. If we want to use that as a emotion we want to use that as a emotion we want to use that as a emotion regulation strategy, what's the best regulation strategy, what's the best regulation strategy, what's the best practice? practice? practice? >> It's pausing. It can be there's multiple >> It's pausing. It can be there's multiple >> It's pausing. It can be there's multiple strategies, I mean techniques. One can strategies, I mean techniques. One can strategies, I mean techniques. One can be just, you know, doing the writing be just, you know, doing the writing be just, you know, doing the writing exercise. One little caveat about that exercise. One little caveat about that exercise. One little caveat about that though is that people tend to overdo it. though is that people tend to overdo it. though is that people tend to overdo it. And so this is the stuff that never gets And so this is the stuff that never gets And so this is the stuff that never gets published, but I won't mention the published, but I won't mention the published, but I won't mention the scientists on this, but years ago I was scientists on this, but years ago I was scientists on this, but years ago I was part of a think tank of researchers part of a think tank of researchers part of a think tank of researchers doing stuff on this. And you know doing stuff on this. And you know doing stuff on this. And you know there's a sweet spot because if you there's a sweet spot because if you there's a sweet spot because if you write 10 things you're grateful for write 10 things you're grateful for write 10 things you're grateful for every day by the time Friday comes you every day by the time Friday comes you every day by the time Friday comes you can't think of anything and then all of can't think of anything and then all of can't think of anything and then all of a sudden sort of like you know like I a sudden sort of like you know like I a sudden sort of like you know like I guess I have nothing to be grateful for guess I have nothing to be grateful for guess I have nothing to be grateful for and it actually backfires and your and it actually backfires and your and it actually backfires and your happiness goes down. So don't you know happiness goes down. So don't you know happiness goes down. So don't you know it's like all things to me it's like the it's like all things to me it's like the it's like all things to me it's like the Buddhist way the middle path. It's all Buddhist way the middle path. It's all Buddhist way the middle path. It's all these strategies are middle path. The these strategies are middle path. The these strategies are middle path. The breathing is the middle path. The breathing is the middle path. The breathing is the middle path. The cognitive is a middle path. Um you know cognitive is a middle path. Um you know cognitive is a middle path. Um you know the eating is a middle path. you know, the eating is a middle path. you know, the eating is a middle path. you know, it's it's all kind of that way. But, um, it's it's all kind of that way. But, um, it's it's all kind of that way. But, um, I think the writing of it is great. And I think the writing of it is great. And I think the writing of it is great. And I think just the pausing, you know, as a I think just the pausing, you know, as a I think just the pausing, you know, as a mindset shift for me, I do it in the mindset shift for me, I do it in the mindset shift for me, I do it in the morning. I have some rituals that I do. morning. I have some rituals that I do. morning. I have some rituals that I do. And, uh, one of my other rituals in the And, uh, one of my other rituals in the And, uh, one of my other rituals in the morning is I say to myself, how morning is I say to myself, how morning is I say to myself, how wonderful it is that today is the first wonderful it is that today is the first wonderful it is that today is the first day of your rest of your life. And it's day of your rest of your life. And it's day of your rest of your life. And it's just like all that that like was just like all that that like was just like all that that like was like yesterday. It's like that would like yesterday. It's like that would like yesterday. It's like that would that's the past. that's the past. that's the past. You know, I got I got the whole day. I You know, I got I got the whole day. I You know, I got I got the whole day. I got tomorrow. got tomorrow. got tomorrow. And I think we could all be more And I think we could all be more And I think we could all be more forward-looking in our lives. To be forward-looking in our lives. To be forward-looking in our lives. To be frank. It's like present moment with frank. It's like present moment with frank. It's like present moment with forward-lookingness. One other quick forward-lookingness. One other quick forward-lookingness. One other quick side about the gratitude thing is I side about the gratitude thing is I side about the gratitude thing is I think it's a beautiful antidote to a think it's a beautiful antidote to a think it's a beautiful antidote to a very popular emotion these days, which very popular emotion these days, which very popular emotion these days, which is envy. You know, I know from my is envy. You know, I know from my is envy. You know, I know from my research with students, they say they're research with students, they say they're research with students, they say they're stressed, but the research actually stressed, but the research actually stressed, but the research actually shows that the the deep feeling is envy shows that the the deep feeling is envy shows that the the deep feeling is envy and jealousy, but they don't have the and jealousy, but they don't have the and jealousy, but they don't have the vocabulary, so they say stressed. But vocabulary, so they say stressed. But vocabulary, so they say stressed. But when you get into the nuance, it's when you get into the nuance, it's when you get into the nuance, it's actually all about social comparisons. actually all about social comparisons. actually all about social comparisons. Whether it's about body type or whether Whether it's about body type or whether Whether it's about body type or whether it's about studying for less hours and it's about studying for less hours and it's about studying for less hours and getting better grades or parents who getting better grades or parents who getting better grades or parents who have better connections in Wall Street have better connections in Wall Street have better connections in Wall Street or Hollywood, you know, it's like or Hollywood, you know, it's like or Hollywood, you know, it's like everybody's like just scanning the world everybody's like just scanning the world everybody's like just scanning the world for like what's going to be better than for like what's going to be better than for like what's going to be better than me. And you know, people think breathing me. And you know, people think breathing me. And you know, people think breathing exercises, you know, this is where I I exercises, you know, this is where I I exercises, you know, this is where I I really think that it's about remember my really think that it's about remember my really think that it's about remember my formula. I don't think just doing kind formula. I don't think just doing kind formula. I don't think just doing kind of mindfulness and breathing exercises of mindfulness and breathing exercises of mindfulness and breathing exercises alone is sufficient because when you're alone is sufficient because when you're alone is sufficient because when you're in a classroom of 300 people like mine in a classroom of 300 people like mine in a classroom of 300 people like mine and you're looking around thinking and you're looking around thinking and you're looking around thinking everybody else is better than you are, everybody else is better than you are, everybody else is better than you are, you got to switch your cognitions. you got to switch your cognitions. you got to switch your cognitions. If you don't if you don't shift your the If you don't if you don't shift your the If you don't if you don't shift your the way you see the world, way you see the world, way you see the world, um you're going to drown in the envy. um you're going to drown in the envy. um you're going to drown in the envy. And if you take a moment and think, wait And if you take a moment and think, wait And if you take a moment and think, wait a minute, I'm actually, you know, a a minute, I'm actually, you know, a a minute, I'm actually, you know, a student at Yale University. Wow, I got a student at Yale University. Wow, I got a student at Yale University. Wow, I got a great freaking professor. Whatever it great freaking professor. Whatever it great freaking professor. Whatever it is, but you know, getting people to is, but you know, getting people to is, but you know, getting people to shift out and please just focus on three shift out and please just focus on three shift out and please just focus on three things that you might have great things that you might have great things that you might have great gratitude for and it just pulls them gratitude for and it just pulls them gratitude for and it just pulls them away from the rumination or the away from the rumination or the away from the rumination or the proveration around, you know, their proveration around, you know, their proveration around, you know, their notworthiness or everyone else's notworthiness or everyone else's notworthiness or everyone else's betterness and it gives them a bit more betterness and it gives them a bit more betterness and it gives them a bit more freedom. So, just to put a fine point on freedom. So, just to put a fine point on freedom. So, just to put a fine point on this, I think what you're saying is to this, I think what you're saying is to this, I think what you're saying is to the listeners, next time you find the listeners, next time you find the listeners, next time you find yourself in a moment of social yourself in a moment of social yourself in a moment of social comparison, if you can catch it, because comparison, if you can catch it, because comparison, if you can catch it, because it can be sneaky and subtle, but if it can be sneaky and subtle, but if it can be sneaky and subtle, but if you're in that moment, and it's probably you're in that moment, and it's probably you're in that moment, and it's probably going to happen the next time you're on going to happen the next time you're on going to happen the next time you're on Instagram, if you're on Instagram or Instagram, if you're on Instagram or Instagram, if you're on Instagram or whatever social media um death trap in whatever social media um death trap in whatever social media um death trap in which you find yourself, um try to use which you find yourself, um try to use which you find yourself, um try to use that as a wake up, an alarm bell to that as a wake up, an alarm bell to that as a wake up, an alarm bell to pause for a second and think of three pause for a second and think of three pause for a second and think of three good things in your life to mitigate the good things in your life to mitigate the good things in your life to mitigate the pernitious effects of comparing yourself pernitious effects of comparing yourself pernitious effects of comparing yourself to other people's curated versions of to other people's curated versions of to other people's curated versions of their lives. their lives. their lives. >> Exactly. Right. >> Exactly. Right. >> Exactly. Right. >> I'm skipping around a little bit in your >> I'm skipping around a little bit in your >> I'm skipping around a little bit in your book. One of the strategies you book. One of the strategies you book. One of the strategies you recommend is identity regulation. What recommend is identity regulation. What recommend is identity regulation. What does that mean? does that mean? does that mean? >> Well, >> Well, >> Well, um, what I mean by that, it goes back to um, what I mean by that, it goes back to um, what I mean by that, it goes back to kind of our opening conversation about kind of our opening conversation about kind of our opening conversation about like why is this so important? like why is this so important? like why is this so important? And I'm I I got this idea, by the way. And I'm I I got this idea, by the way. And I'm I I got this idea, by the way. So, one of the things I did for my own So, one of the things I did for my own So, one of the things I did for my own well-being while writing the book was I well-being while writing the book was I well-being while writing the book was I started doing a rigorous uh lifting like started doing a rigorous uh lifting like started doing a rigorous uh lifting like weightlifting workout. I was always like weightlifting workout. I was always like weightlifting workout. I was always like an I was always a physically active an I was always a physically active an I was always a physically active person with martial arts and other person with martial arts and other person with martial arts and other things. I taught, you know, exercise in things. I taught, you know, exercise in things. I taught, you know, exercise in gyms during graduate school, but um you gyms during graduate school, but um you gyms during graduate school, but um you know, you become a professor, you get a know, you become a professor, you get a know, you become a professor, you get a little dumpy um and the pandemic hits, little dumpy um and the pandemic hits, little dumpy um and the pandemic hits, you're eating too much Thai food, and you're eating too much Thai food, and you're eating too much Thai food, and I'm like, Mark, I'm like, Mark, I'm like, Mark, you got to work out like you got to like you got to work out like you got to like you got to work out like you got to like you got to get yourself in shape. So, I you got to get yourself in shape. So, I you got to get yourself in shape. So, I found I was this is the positive found I was this is the positive found I was this is the positive benefits of social media. I was benefits of social media. I was benefits of social media. I was scrolling one night kind of feeling scrolling one night kind of feeling scrolling one night kind of feeling disgusted and I found this virtual disgusted and I found this virtual disgusted and I found this virtual trainer and I decided it was a trainer and I decided it was a trainer and I decided it was a reasonable price to get me started and I reasonable price to get me started and I reasonable price to get me started and I meet this person uh his name is Marco meet this person uh his name is Marco meet this person uh his name is Marco and he's interviews me he's like you and he's interviews me he's like you and he's interviews me he's like you know I only really want to take people know I only really want to take people know I only really want to take people who are motivated and I'm like wow who are motivated and I'm like wow who are motivated and I'm like wow that's pretty intense that's pretty intense that's pretty intense and anyway we had this long conversation and anyway we had this long conversation and anyway we had this long conversation and he said there's different phases to and he said there's different phases to and he said there's different phases to working out and the first phase is working out and the first phase is working out and the first phase is you're going to hate it you know it's you're going to hate it you know it's you're going to hate it you know it's like Why am I doing this? This is like Why am I doing this? This is like Why am I doing this? This is ridiculous. Which, by the way, I went ridiculous. Which, by the way, I went ridiculous. Which, by the way, I went through like for months. I would be through like for months. I would be through like for months. I would be doing like deadlifts and I'd be like, doing like deadlifts and I'd be like, doing like deadlifts and I'd be like, I'm 50 years old. Like, who needs like, I'm 50 years old. Like, who needs like, I'm 50 years old. Like, who needs like, you know, I've been with my partner for you know, I've been with my partner for you know, I've been with my partner for 30 years. Who cares? Like, nobody's 30 years. Who cares? Like, nobody's 30 years. Who cares? Like, nobody's looking at you anyway. I mean, all the looking at you anyway. I mean, all the looking at you anyway. I mean, all the negativity negativity. And then I I got negativity negativity. And then I I got negativity negativity. And then I I got through that. I was like, Mark, this is through that. I was like, Mark, this is through that. I was like, Mark, this is ridiculous. Take the high road. You know ridiculous. Take the high road. You know ridiculous. Take the high road. You know that this is what you want to do. And that this is what you want to do. And that this is what you want to do. And all all the selft talk worked. Then I all all the selft talk worked. Then I all all the selft talk worked. Then I saw changes. But the conversation that saw changes. But the conversation that saw changes. But the conversation that was the most interesting to me was that was the most interesting to me was that was the most interesting to me was that he said, you know, when like for just to he said, you know, when like for just to he said, you know, when like for just to make the parallel, I see myself as a make the parallel, I see myself as a make the parallel, I see myself as a martial artist. I have a fifth degree martial artist. I have a fifth degree martial artist. I have a fifth degree black belt in a style called hopko. Like black belt in a style called hopko. Like black belt in a style called hopko. Like if you ask me like do you consider if you ask me like do you consider if you ask me like do you consider martial arts an aspect of your identity? martial arts an aspect of your identity? martial arts an aspect of your identity? I'd say 100%. Like I just I feel like I I'd say 100%. Like I just I feel like I I'd say 100%. Like I just I feel like I operate as a martial arts as a martial operate as a martial arts as a martial operate as a martial arts as a martial artist in the world around. I'm scanning artist in the world around. I'm scanning artist in the world around. I'm scanning the environment. You know, I feel the environment. You know, I feel the environment. You know, I feel confident in terms of protecting myself confident in terms of protecting myself confident in terms of protecting myself and other people. But do I feel like I and other people. But do I feel like I and other people. But do I feel like I have a black belt in emotional have a black belt in emotional have a black belt in emotional intelligence? Not so much. Do I identify? Do I see Not so much. Do I identify? Do I see Mark Brackett as a highly regulated Mark Brackett as a highly regulated Mark Brackett as a highly regulated human? Not yet. And I feel like that's human? Not yet. And I feel like that's human? Not yet. And I feel like that's where people need to grow. that when we where people need to grow. that when we where people need to grow. that when we start identifying as people who got this start identifying as people who got this start identifying as people who got this yes I am the Yoda of emotion regulation yes I am the Yoda of emotion regulation yes I am the Yoda of emotion regulation you know um that that's when you know um that that's when you know um that that's when our automatic habitual our automatic habitual our automatic habitual unhelpful reactions to stimuli unhelpful reactions to stimuli unhelpful reactions to stimuli uh become our automatic habitual uh become our automatic habitual uh become our automatic habitual deliberate conscious helpful ways of deliberate conscious helpful ways of deliberate conscious helpful ways of dealing with our emotional lives. And dealing with our emotional lives. And dealing with our emotional lives. And that's my whole life is striving for that's my whole life is striving for that's my whole life is striving for that. I mean, for helping people to to that. I mean, for helping people to to that. I mean, for helping people to to see that, to identify that way. see that, to identify that way. see that, to identify that way. >> But isn't that a setup for failure? If >> But isn't that a setup for failure? If >> But isn't that a setup for failure? If you think you're Yoda, the next time you think you're Yoda, the next time you think you're Yoda, the next time you're a like it's just it's you're a like it's just it's you're a like it's just it's going to be devastating. going to be devastating. going to be devastating. >> Well, you're going to be Yoda with some >> Well, you're going to be Yoda with some >> Well, you're going to be Yoda with some humility. But for me, it's actually humility. But for me, it's actually humility. But for me, it's actually great because, you know, I I'm I'm very great because, you know, I I'm I'm very great because, you know, I I'm I'm very easily, you know, for whatever reason, easily, you know, for whatever reason, easily, you know, for whatever reason, you know, I feel strong emotions in the you know, I feel strong emotions in the you know, I feel strong emotions in the world around me. and you know whether world around me. and you know whether world around me. and you know whether I'm at like a grocery you know getting a I'm at like a grocery you know getting a I'm at like a grocery you know getting a coffee and I feel like the barista is coffee and I feel like the barista is coffee and I feel like the barista is nasty or whether I'm online at the nasty or whether I'm online at the nasty or whether I'm online at the airport or wherever or you know people airport or wherever or you know people airport or wherever or you know people challenging me in my public speeches and challenging me in my public speeches and challenging me in my public speeches and so when when when or students for so when when when or students for so when when when or students for example professor bracket I've got a example professor bracket I've got a example professor bracket I've got a question but you know I'm not sure question but you know I'm not sure question but you know I'm not sure you're going to know the answer I'm you're going to know the answer I'm you're going to know the answer I'm thinking to myself okay yeah this is thinking to myself okay yeah this is thinking to myself okay yeah this is going to be a winner um I use that as an going to be a winner um I use that as an going to be a winner um I use that as an opportunity like to me it's like Mark I opportunity like to me it's like Mark I opportunity like to me it's like Mark I Go into Mark the Yoda. Mark, you are the Go into Mark the Yoda. Mark, you are the Go into Mark the Yoda. Mark, you are the feelings master. Mark, you are the feelings master. Mark, you are the feelings master. Mark, you are the world's leading expert in emotional world's leading expert in emotional world's leading expert in emotional intelligence. intelligence. intelligence. Use that identity to solve this problem. Use that identity to solve this problem. Use that identity to solve this problem. And by the way, it works. And there's And by the way, it works. And there's And by the way, it works. And there's good research to support that. But okay, good research to support that. But okay, good research to support that. But okay, but but let me press on that. What about but but let me press on that. What about but but let me press on that. What about the inevitable? the inevitable? the inevitable? How what does it do to your identity in How what does it do to your identity in How what does it do to your identity in those inevitable moments when you are those inevitable moments when you are those inevitable moments when you are disregulated and and in a bad enough disregulated and and in a bad enough disregulated and and in a bad enough situation that dysregulation might last, situation that dysregulation might last, situation that dysregulation might last, you know, for a while? It might. And you know, for a while? It might. And you know, for a while? It might. And that's where you have to have the that's where you have to have the that's where you have to have the humility and the courage to either have humility and the courage to either have humility and the courage to either have some self forgiveness or apologize to some self forgiveness or apologize to some self forgiveness or apologize to your partner. I think there's a lot of your partner. I think there's a lot of your partner. I think there's a lot of emotion regulation that goes into having emotion regulation that goes into having emotion regulation that goes into having the courage to say, "I'm sorry, honey. the courage to say, "I'm sorry, honey. the courage to say, "I'm sorry, honey. Like I have to do that pretty much every Like I have to do that pretty much every Like I have to do that pretty much every week. I'm terrible at this by the way. week. I'm terrible at this by the way. week. I'm terrible at this by the way. >> And I just the other day I was like I >> And I just the other day I was like I >> And I just the other day I was like I really we went out for dinner with really we went out for dinner with really we went out for dinner with friends and I just like I was triggered friends and I just like I was triggered friends and I just like I was triggered by something and we're walking home and by something and we're walking home and by something and we're walking home and of course I like don't say it Mark don't of course I like don't say it Mark don't of course I like don't say it Mark don't say it. Of course I said it and then I'm say it. Of course I said it and then I'm say it. Of course I said it and then I'm like why did you do that? you know, and like why did you do that? you know, and like why did you do that? you know, and then it was like a whole thing, you then it was like a whole thing, you then it was like a whole thing, you know, when we got home and then, you know, when we got home and then, you know, when we got home and then, you know, the next morning I woke up and I know, the next morning I woke up and I know, the next morning I woke up and I was like, you know, I don't know what was like, you know, I don't know what was like, you know, I don't know what got to me that I needed to say that and got to me that I needed to say that and got to me that I needed to say that and I I'm sorry and I'm going to really work I I'm sorry and I'm going to really work I I'm sorry and I'm going to really work on not, you know, doing that again. on not, you know, doing that again. on not, you know, doing that again. That's the best you can do, you know, That's the best you can do, you know, That's the best you can do, you know, and then you reflect on it and you try and then you reflect on it and you try and then you reflect on it and you try to move forward. I can't I, you know, I to move forward. I can't I, you know, I to move forward. I can't I, you know, I think that 90% of our divorces are think that 90% of our divorces are think that 90% of our divorces are because people can't regulate. They because people can't regulate. They because people can't regulate. They can't deal with their feelings in their can't deal with their feelings in their can't deal with their feelings in their relationship. Whether it's telling relationship. Whether it's telling relationship. Whether it's telling someone about their discomfort or someone about their discomfort or someone about their discomfort or whether it's managing these moments, whether it's managing these moments, whether it's managing these moments, people just either people just either people just either decided they're going to cheat on them. decided they're going to cheat on them. decided they're going to cheat on them. They go to the gym for 6 hours. They, They go to the gym for 6 hours. They, They go to the gym for 6 hours. They, you know, compartmentalize, you know, compartmentalize, you know, compartmentalize, suppress, deny, repress as opposed to suppress, deny, repress as opposed to suppress, deny, repress as opposed to approach. The approach takes courage. approach. The approach takes courage. approach. The approach takes courage. The approach takes skill. But I think The approach takes skill. But I think The approach takes skill. But I think the approach is what makes us healthier, the approach is what makes us healthier, the approach is what makes us healthier, happier people. You have this kind of happier people. You have this kind of happier people. You have this kind of order of operations in this section of order of operations in this section of order of operations in this section of the book under identity regulation. the book under identity regulation. the book under identity regulation. Sense, stop, see your best self, Sense, stop, see your best self, Sense, stop, see your best self, strategize, and act. strategize, and act. strategize, and act. >> Yeah. Can you walk us through that? >> Yeah. Can you walk us through that? >> Yeah. Can you walk us through that? >> Yes. So, that's a technique we call the >> Yes. So, that's a technique we call the >> Yes. So, that's a technique we call the meta moment. And that's um I cultivated meta moment. And that's um I cultivated meta moment. And that's um I cultivated this technique with a colleague of mine this technique with a colleague of mine this technique with a colleague of mine whose name is Robin Stern. And we came whose name is Robin Stern. And we came whose name is Robin Stern. And we came at this from a really fun perspective. at this from a really fun perspective. at this from a really fun perspective. She's a clinician who was dealing with, She's a clinician who was dealing with, She's a clinician who was dealing with, you know, uh, patients who were, she was you know, uh, patients who were, she was you know, uh, patients who were, she was teaching them emotion regulation teaching them emotion regulation teaching them emotion regulation strategies. They go home and they would strategies. They go home and they would strategies. They go home and they would not use them. not use them. not use them. We we just worked on this and you're We we just worked on this and you're We we just worked on this and you're couples therapy like what's going on couples therapy like what's going on couples therapy like what's going on here? I was a scientist working on here? I was a scientist working on here? I was a scientist working on research and like teaching people this research and like teaching people this research and like teaching people this and I got all this resistance and so and I got all this resistance and so and I got all this resistance and so we're like nobody wants to regulate. So we're like nobody wants to regulate. So we're like nobody wants to regulate. So there's it's not just about the strategy there's it's not just about the strategy there's it's not just about the strategy because you know you can do the because you know you can do the because you know you can do the breathing exercises, you can do the breathing exercises, you can do the breathing exercises, you can do the cognitive exercise that we've talked cognitive exercise that we've talked cognitive exercise that we've talked about and others, but if you don't about and others, but if you don't about and others, but if you don't actually see that my life is going to be actually see that my life is going to be actually see that my life is going to be better, my relationships are going to be better, my relationships are going to be better, my relationships are going to be better by applying these strategies to better by applying these strategies to better by applying these strategies to my life, then you're probably not going my life, then you're probably not going my life, then you're probably not going to do them because it does feel good to to do them because it does feel good to to do them because it does feel good to be disregulated. you know, I proved be disregulated. you know, I proved be disregulated. you know, I proved myself right that evening on that walk myself right that evening on that walk myself right that evening on that walk home, you know, and um it does feel good home, you know, and um it does feel good home, you know, and um it does feel good to say go blank yourself and, you know, to say go blank yourself and, you know, to say go blank yourself and, you know, have that extra alcoholic beverage in have that extra alcoholic beverage in have that extra alcoholic beverage in the moment. You just these strategies the moment. You just these strategies the moment. You just these strategies don't tend to, you know, do well for you don't tend to, you know, do well for you don't tend to, you know, do well for you long term. So, with that said, we long term. So, with that said, we long term. So, with that said, we realized the missing link was something realized the missing link was something realized the missing link was something we've spoken about already, which is we've spoken about already, which is we've spoken about already, which is this idea of cultivating your best self. this idea of cultivating your best self. this idea of cultivating your best self. So we get the step the four-step process So we get the step the four-step process So we get the step the four-step process of the meta moment. Three of the steps of the meta moment. Three of the steps of the meta moment. Three of the steps are similar, right? The first step is are similar, right? The first step is are similar, right? The first step is you notice that something has shifted in you notice that something has shifted in you notice that something has shifted in your environment. I am triggered. I'm your environment. I am triggered. I'm your environment. I am triggered. I'm feeling tense in my shoulders. You know, feeling tense in my shoulders. You know, feeling tense in my shoulders. You know, I have that negative thought. I want to I have that negative thought. I want to I have that negative thought. I want to say something mean or hurtful. say something mean or hurtful. say something mean or hurtful. And then we do that pause but where we And then we do that pause but where we And then we do that pause but where we do that breath. But the critical and do that breath. But the critical and do that breath. But the critical and creative thing about the meta moment is creative thing about the meta moment is creative thing about the meta moment is this moment of seeing your best self. this moment of seeing your best self. this moment of seeing your best self. So, what does that mean? Well, it's role So, what does that mean? Well, it's role So, what does that mean? Well, it's role specific, but very simply, if I were to specific, but very simply, if I were to specific, but very simply, if I were to ask you, Dan, you're a father of an ask you, Dan, you're a father of an ask you, Dan, you're a father of an 11-year-old. You just said, correct? 11-year-old. You just said, correct? 11-year-old. You just said, correct? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, I'm going to put you through >> Okay. So, I'm going to put you through >> Okay. So, I'm going to put you through this exercise. this exercise. this exercise. You didn't you didn't sign the consent You didn't you didn't sign the consent You didn't you didn't sign the consent form, but it's okay. Dan, in your role form, but it's okay. Dan, in your role form, but it's okay. Dan, in your role as a parent, your best self, or you as a parent, your best self, or you as a parent, your best self, or you would say this to yourself, my best would say this to yourself, my best would say this to yourself, my best self, how I want my child to see me, how self, how I want my child to see me, how self, how I want my child to see me, how I want my child to experience me, I want my child to experience me, I want my child to experience me, >> um, how I want my child to talk about me >> um, how I want my child to talk about me >> um, how I want my child to talk about me to their peers. What are the three to their peers. What are the three to their peers. What are the three qualities that you would want them to qualities that you would want them to qualities that you would want them to have in mind? have in mind? have in mind? >> Well, I think number one is the Uncle >> Well, I think number one is the Uncle >> Well, I think number one is the Uncle Marvin role. Like a just a safe place. I Marvin role. Like a just a safe place. I Marvin role. Like a just a safe place. I don't know that my son would have the don't know that my son would have the don't know that my son would have the vocabulary for this, but like a safe vocabulary for this, but like a safe vocabulary for this, but like a safe place to just be, you know, express his place to just be, you know, express his place to just be, you know, express his himself in his full range. himself in his full range. himself in his full range. >> So, what's the trait or attribute that >> So, what's the trait or attribute that >> So, what's the trait or attribute that you would have? you would have? you would have? >> How about easy to talk to? >> How about easy to talk to? >> How about easy to talk to? >> Great. So, you want to see yourself as a >> Great. So, you want to see yourself as a >> Great. So, you want to see yourself as a dad who's easy to talk to? dad who's easy to talk to? dad who's easy to talk to? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Give me two more. >> Give me two more. >> Give me two more. >> Fun to be around. Like, I'm I'm down to >> Fun to be around. Like, I'm I'm down to >> Fun to be around. Like, I'm I'm down to do his stuff. I'll, even though I don't do his stuff. I'll, even though I don't do his stuff. I'll, even though I don't really want to do it, listen to him talk really want to do it, listen to him talk really want to do it, listen to him talk about video games as long as he wants to about video games as long as he wants to about video games as long as he wants to talk. Take him to sporting events. talk. Take him to sporting events. talk. Take him to sporting events. Another thing I also don't really want Another thing I also don't really want Another thing I also don't really want to do. Uh, but you know, I play drums to do. Uh, but you know, I play drums to do. Uh, but you know, I play drums with him. I watch 30 Rock with him. with him. I watch 30 Rock with him. with him. I watch 30 Rock with him. We're working our way through that whole We're working our way through that whole We're working our way through that whole show, which has a lot of inappropriate show, which has a lot of inappropriate show, which has a lot of inappropriate in it, but whatever. Um, in it, but whatever. Um, in it, but whatever. Um, >> so easy to be around, fun, >> so easy to be around, fun, >> so easy to be around, fun, >> easy to talk to, fun to be around. >> easy to talk to, fun to be around. >> easy to talk to, fun to be around. >> Okay. Easy to talk to, fun to be around. >> Okay. Easy to talk to, fun to be around. >> Okay. Easy to talk to, fun to be around. Give me one more. Give me one more. Give me one more. >> Aspirational figure like I want to be >> Aspirational figure like I want to be >> Aspirational figure like I want to be like him. say more about that. like him. say more about that. like him. say more about that. >> I don't believe as a parent in a lot of >> I don't believe as a parent in a lot of >> I don't believe as a parent in a lot of direct instruction of my child because I direct instruction of my child because I direct instruction of my child because I don't believe that will work. Um, so I don't believe that will work. Um, so I don't believe that will work. Um, so I try to lead and teach through osmosis try to lead and teach through osmosis try to lead and teach through osmosis for example, you know, and so I want him for example, you know, and so I want him for example, you know, and so I want him to feel like, yeah, that's a dude I want to feel like, yeah, that's a dude I want to feel like, yeah, that's a dude I want to be like because he has rich to be like because he has rich to be like because he has rich relationships. He has work that he relationships. He has work that he relationships. He has work that he really cares about. He pays attention to really cares about. He pays attention to really cares about. He pays attention to his marriage. He's his marriage. He's his marriage. He's >> Mhm. fit uh you know to the best of his >> Mhm. fit uh you know to the best of his >> Mhm. fit uh you know to the best of his ability. Um and I don't mean like ability. Um and I don't mean like ability. Um and I don't mean like looking a certain way like I I pay looking a certain way like I I pay looking a certain way like I I pay attention to my fitness like that. I attention to my fitness like that. I attention to my fitness like that. I want him to look up to me in that way. want him to look up to me in that way. want him to look up to me in that way. >> So what's a word? What's an attribute? >> So what's a word? What's an attribute? >> So what's a word? What's an attribute? >> Role model. >> Role model. >> Role model. >> Yeah. But that's not specific enough for >> Yeah. But that's not specific enough for >> Yeah. But that's not specific enough for me. I want more specific. Is it me. I want more specific. Is it me. I want more specific. Is it passionate? Is it perseverant? Is it passionate? Is it perseverant? Is it passionate? Is it perseverant? Is it motivated? Is it motivated? Is it motivated? Is it >> Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. Passionate. Sure. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. Passionate. Sure. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. Passionate. Sure. >> Nice. So, as a dad, I want my son to see >> Nice. So, as a dad, I want my son to see >> Nice. So, as a dad, I want my son to see me as someone who is me as someone who is me as someone who is >> easy to talk to, fun, passionate, >> easy to talk to, fun, passionate, >> easy to talk to, fun, passionate, >> nice. So, tonight or wherever you are, >> nice. So, tonight or wherever you are, >> nice. So, tonight or wherever you are, if you're going to meet your child if you're going to meet your child if you're going to meet your child tonight at home, you can be tonight at home, you can be tonight at home, you can be forward-looking. Remember I talked to forward-looking. Remember I talked to forward-looking. Remember I talked to you, I said I was a preventionist. Well, you, I said I was a preventionist. Well, you, I said I was a preventionist. Well, if we always are waiting for our kids to if we always are waiting for our kids to if we always are waiting for our kids to trick us to then activate that best trick us to then activate that best trick us to then activate that best self, it's going to be harder. But you self, it's going to be harder. But you self, it's going to be harder. But you can be proactive about this. Can you can be proactive about this. Can you can be proactive about this. Can you before you walk into your kitchen before you walk into your kitchen before you walk into your kitchen tonight for dinner or whenever you're tonight for dinner or whenever you're tonight for dinner or whenever you're going to see your kid um next, just going to see your kid um next, just going to see your kid um next, just pause and set a goal and remind pause and set a goal and remind pause and set a goal and remind yourself, I've made a commitment that I yourself, I've made a commitment that I yourself, I've made a commitment that I want to be a dad who is want to be a dad who is want to be a dad who is >> easy to talk to, fun, passionate. >> easy to talk to, fun, passionate. >> easy to talk to, fun, passionate. >> Yeah. This kind of gets into the whole >> Yeah. This kind of gets into the whole >> Yeah. This kind of gets into the whole idea of intention setting which I feel idea of intention setting which I feel idea of intention setting which I feel can be can metastasize in a very can be can metastasize in a very can be can metastasize in a very positive way throughout your life. Like positive way throughout your life. Like positive way throughout your life. Like I in a Buddhist sense I I wake up in the I in a Buddhist sense I I wake up in the I in a Buddhist sense I I wake up in the morning and this is Buddhist language morning and this is Buddhist language morning and this is Buddhist language say that you know my job is to be of say that you know my job is to be of say that you know my job is to be of benefit to all beings. Um, and so it's benefit to all beings. Um, and so it's benefit to all beings. Um, and so it's it sounds to me, and I you you'll it sounds to me, and I you you'll it sounds to me, and I you you'll correct me if I'm wrong, that you're correct me if I'm wrong, that you're correct me if I'm wrong, that you're saying that we can saying that we can saying that we can >> just be tweaking our intention or our >> just be tweaking our intention or our >> just be tweaking our intention or our best self and and setting that as a best self and and setting that as a best self and and setting that as a north star in different contexts north star in different contexts north star in different contexts throughout the day. throughout the day. throughout the day. >> That's exactly right. in my best self as >> That's exactly right. in my best self as >> That's exactly right. in my best self as a husband is very different from my best a husband is very different from my best a husband is very different from my best self as a public speaker on stage which self as a public speaker on stage which self as a public speaker on stage which is different than my best self you know is different than my best self you know is different than my best self you know as you know a colleague as you know a colleague as you know a colleague um and there's different attributes that um and there's different attributes that um and there's different attributes that come up for me but how many of us really come up for me but how many of us really come up for me but how many of us really take the time like I did with you to take the time like I did with you to take the time like I did with you to just sit back and reflect on these just sit back and reflect on these just sit back and reflect on these things and that's how you feel right now things and that's how you feel right now things and that's how you feel right now with your kid being 11 when they're 17 with your kid being 11 when they're 17 with your kid being 11 when they're 17 or 18 you might think of different or 18 you might think of different or 18 you might think of different attributes because of what's going on in attributes because of what's going on in attributes because of what's going on in both of your lives at that point, but my both of your lives at that point, but my both of your lives at that point, but my the real point of it is like you said, the real point of it is like you said, the real point of it is like you said, it's the intentionality of it, but it's it's the intentionality of it, but it's it's the intentionality of it, but it's the granularity of it. Just saying I the granularity of it. Just saying I the granularity of it. Just saying I want to be a role model, it's kind of want to be a role model, it's kind of want to be a role model, it's kind of too broad. And so, um, too broad. And so, um, too broad. And so, um, you know, for me, you know, this joke in you know, for me, you know, this joke in you know, for me, you know, this joke in my book when I say like cuz my students my book when I say like cuz my students my book when I say like cuz my students call me the feelings master is that I call me the feelings master is that I call me the feelings master is that I had to operationalize that like what had to operationalize that like what had to operationalize that like what does that mean exactly? It means he is does that mean exactly? It means he is does that mean exactly? It means he is beautifully creative at dealing with beautifully creative at dealing with beautifully creative at dealing with life's, you know, curve balls. life's, you know, curve balls. life's, you know, curve balls. And so that that means that when I'm in And so that that means that when I'm in And so that that means that when I'm in a classroom and someone throws that a classroom and someone throws that a classroom and someone throws that curveball at me, I see myself as curveball at me, I see myself as curveball at me, I see myself as beautifully creative, you know, at beautifully creative, you know, at beautifully creative, you know, at solving those big challenges. And if I solving those big challenges. And if I solving those big challenges. And if I can bring myself into that place, I'm can bring myself into that place, I'm can bring myself into that place, I'm just going to be much better at managing just going to be much better at managing just going to be much better at managing it. And then you reflect on it because it. And then you reflect on it because it. And then you reflect on it because importantly, Dan, this is not about importantly, Dan, this is not about importantly, Dan, this is not about you're never going to arrive there. This you're never going to arrive there. This you're never going to arrive there. This is going back to your thing. Well, Mark, is going back to your thing. Well, Mark, is going back to your thing. Well, Mark, you're going to make mistakes and you're you're going to make mistakes and you're you're going to make mistakes and you're going to mess up. Of course I am. But going to mess up. Of course I am. But going to mess up. Of course I am. But that doesn't then I have to look at the that doesn't then I have to look at the that doesn't then I have to look at the barriers. barriers. barriers. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Then it's like, okay, so what was the >> Then it's like, okay, so what was the >> Then it's like, okay, so what was the reason? And I could say, you know, in, reason? And I could say, you know, in, reason? And I could say, you know, in, you know, say this publicly, I felt you know, say this publicly, I felt you know, say this publicly, I felt insecure about what my partner said, you insecure about what my partner said, you insecure about what my partner said, you know, in that in that dinner, and it was know, in that in that dinner, and it was know, in that in that dinner, and it was my issue. my issue. my issue. And so that was a nice reflection for me And so that was a nice reflection for me And so that was a nice reflection for me to have. Oh, so the reason why really to have. Oh, so the reason why really to have. Oh, so the reason why really the real deep down reason why I didn't the real deep down reason why I didn't the real deep down reason why I didn't live up to my best self was that I got live up to my best self was that I got live up to my best self was that I got insecure. Oh, okay. That's interesting, insecure. Oh, okay. That's interesting, insecure. Oh, okay. That's interesting, Mark. Sit with that for a little bit. Mark. Sit with that for a little bit. Mark. Sit with that for a little bit. Let's get curious about that. So often Let's get curious about that. So often Let's get curious about that. So often times when we're trying to be our best times when we're trying to be our best times when we're trying to be our best selves, the things that are the barriers selves, the things that are the barriers selves, the things that are the barriers to that are where real the real learning to that are where real the real learning to that are where real the real learning happens. happens. happens. >> We're almost out of time. So let me ask >> We're almost out of time. So let me ask >> We're almost out of time. So let me ask you the two questions I ask at at the you the two questions I ask at at the you the two questions I ask at at the end of pretty much every interview. One end of pretty much every interview. One end of pretty much every interview. One is is there something you were hoping is is there something you were hoping is is there something you were hoping that we would get to that we didn't. that we would get to that we didn't. that we would get to that we didn't. >> We covered a lot. You know, we went, you >> We covered a lot. You know, we went, you >> We covered a lot. You know, we went, you know, we weren't linear, which is fine. know, we weren't linear, which is fine. know, we weren't linear, which is fine. I like, you know, over the river and I like, you know, over the river and I like, you know, over the river and through the woods. through the woods. through the woods. Um Um Um I think we covered a lot you know we I think we covered a lot you know we I think we covered a lot you know we didn't get into you know some of the didn't get into you know some of the didn't get into you know some of the other strategies but that you know other strategies but that you know other strategies but that you know people can read about them you know in people can read about them you know in people can read about them you know in terms of the biology of regulation you terms of the biology of regulation you terms of the biology of regulation you know the way how food and sleep and know the way how food and sleep and know the way how food and sleep and physical activity all are supportive of physical activity all are supportive of physical activity all are supportive of that that's an important thing for that that's an important thing for that that's an important thing for people to know cuz a lot of people I'm people to know cuz a lot of people I'm people to know cuz a lot of people I'm trying to be my best self but I can't trying to be my best self but I can't trying to be my best self but I can't and I just say things like well how much and I just say things like well how much and I just say things like well how much sleep did you get last night? Well it's sleep did you get last night? Well it's sleep did you get last night? Well it's terrible. I'm like well there you go terrible. I'm like well there you go terrible. I'm like well there you go there's the barrier. Um and so we need a there's the barrier. Um and so we need a there's the barrier. Um and so we need a budget. We need fuel to regulate our budget. We need fuel to regulate our budget. We need fuel to regulate our emotions effectively. emotions effectively. emotions effectively. But for me, you know, I see it as really But for me, you know, I see it as really But for me, you know, I see it as really two big things. One is the attitudinal. two big things. One is the attitudinal. two big things. One is the attitudinal. It's the permission to feel piece. And It's the permission to feel piece. And It's the permission to feel piece. And by the way, the one thing we I we didn't by the way, the one thing we I we didn't by the way, the one thing we I we didn't talk about was, you know, we have to talk about was, you know, we have to talk about was, you know, we have to give ourselves permission to feel. Um we give ourselves permission to feel. Um we give ourselves permission to feel. Um we have to give other people permission to have to give other people permission to have to give other people permission to feel. And I want to recommend that feel. And I want to recommend that feel. And I want to recommend that people do this in public. meaning like people do this in public. meaning like people do this in public. meaning like show up and let other people observe you show up and let other people observe you show up and let other people observe you being the non-judgmental being the non-judgmental being the non-judgmental good listener who's empathic and good listener who's empathic and good listener who's empathic and compassionate because it has a contagion compassionate because it has a contagion compassionate because it has a contagion effect also. So once we can give effect also. So once we can give effect also. So once we can give ourselves and everyone we love and even ourselves and everyone we love and even ourselves and everyone we love and even the people we don't love that much the people we don't love that much the people we don't love that much permission to feel we can lean and permission to feel we can lean and permission to feel we can lean and figure out what well even though I give figure out what well even though I give figure out what well even though I give myself permission to feel there are myself permission to feel there are myself permission to feel there are certain feelings that are interfering certain feelings that are interfering certain feelings that are interfering with my success with my goals I need with my success with my goals I need with my success with my goals I need strategies to deal with them and I think strategies to deal with them and I think strategies to deal with them and I think importantly that importantly that importantly that we have our society has is so like the we have our society has is so like the we have our society has is so like the quick fix thing is like I was giving quick fix thing is like I was giving quick fix thing is like I was giving this speech for I don't know a couple this speech for I don't know a couple this speech for I don't know a couple thousand actually police officers thousand actually police officers thousand actually police officers And like they were very impatient with And like they were very impatient with And like they were very impatient with me and they were like, "Dude, what's the me and they were like, "Dude, what's the me and they were like, "Dude, what's the one strategy that works?" And I'm like, one strategy that works?" And I'm like, one strategy that works?" And I'm like, "I'm sorry, it just doesn't work that "I'm sorry, it just doesn't work that "I'm sorry, it just doesn't work that way." They're like, "I'm asking you way." They're like, "I'm asking you way." They're like, "I'm asking you right now, what's the one strategy?" I'm right now, what's the one strategy?" I'm right now, what's the one strategy?" I'm like, "All right, be kind to yourself." like, "All right, be kind to yourself." like, "All right, be kind to yourself." And my point in sharing that with you is And my point in sharing that with you is And my point in sharing that with you is that when we're regulating our emotions that when we're regulating our emotions that when we're regulating our emotions in real life, it's never just one in real life, it's never just one in real life, it's never just one strategy. It's using all the strategies strategy. It's using all the strategies strategy. It's using all the strategies that I write about. and you know, you that I write about. and you know, you that I write about. and you know, you you realize you're having a strong you realize you're having a strong you realize you're having a strong emotion, you take the deep breath, you emotion, you take the deep breath, you emotion, you take the deep breath, you walk out of the room, you gather your walk out of the room, you gather your walk out of the room, you gather your thoughts, you go back and you say thoughts, you go back and you say thoughts, you go back and you say something to try to rectify the something to try to rectify the something to try to rectify the situation or you take a break and you go situation or you take a break and you go situation or you take a break and you go look at nature or you go work out or you look at nature or you go work out or you look at nature or you go work out or you call a friend. We need all of these call a friend. We need all of these call a friend. We need all of these strategies. You know, they're they're a strategies. You know, they're they're a strategies. You know, they're they're a collective. And if we can help ourselves collective. And if we can help ourselves collective. And if we can help ourselves to see where our strength areas are and to see where our strength areas are and to see where our strength areas are and where our challenge areas are and kind where our challenge areas are and kind where our challenge areas are and kind of cultivate the challenge areas, we're of cultivate the challenge areas, we're of cultivate the challenge areas, we're going to be, I think, happier, healthier going to be, I think, happier, healthier going to be, I think, happier, healthier people. people. people. >> Well said. Fi final question. Just can >> Well said. Fi final question. Just can >> Well said. Fi final question. Just can you remind everybody of the name of your you remind everybody of the name of your you remind everybody of the name of your new book, your old book, any other new book, your old book, any other new book, your old book, any other books, any other books, any other books, any other >> things you do in the world, website, >> things you do in the world, website, >> things you do in the world, website, social media that we should know about? social media that we should know about? social media that we should know about? Thank you. So, my new book is called Thank you. So, my new book is called Thank you. So, my new book is called Dealing with Feeling. Uh, my first book Dealing with Feeling. Uh, my first book Dealing with Feeling. Uh, my first book is called Permission to Feel. I have a is called Permission to Feel. I have a is called Permission to Feel. I have a dealing with Feeling podcast now where I dealing with Feeling podcast now where I dealing with Feeling podcast now where I interview world the world's experts on interview world the world's experts on interview world the world's experts on emotions and emotional intelligence and emotions and emotional intelligence and emotions and emotional intelligence and learn about their ways of dealing with learn about their ways of dealing with learn about their ways of dealing with emotions, which is fun. I'm on Instagram emotions, which is fun. I'm on Instagram emotions, which is fun. I'm on Instagram primarily on LinkedIn, which is my name. primarily on LinkedIn, which is my name. primarily on LinkedIn, which is my name. And, uh, my website is markbet.com. We And, uh, my website is markbet.com. We And, uh, my website is markbet.com. We will put links to all of those in the will put links to all of those in the will put links to all of those in the show notes for anybody driving show notes for anybody driving show notes for anybody driving um or otherwise not holding a pencil. Um um or otherwise not holding a pencil. Um um or otherwise not holding a pencil. Um Mark, great job. Thank you very much. Mark, great job. Thank you very much. Mark, great job. Thank you very much. >> Thank you, Dan. As many of you know, I'm not a big fan As many of you know, I'm not a big fan of the so-called power of positive of the so-called power of positive of the so-called power of positive thinking that just because you think thinking that just because you think thinking that just because you think something like, um, let me get a million something like, um, let me get a million something like, um, let me get a million bucks or let me uh cure whatever disease bucks or let me uh cure whatever disease bucks or let me uh cure whatever disease I'm struggling with right now, just I'm struggling with right now, just I'm struggling with right now, just because you think it doesn't mean it's because you think it doesn't mean it's because you think it doesn't mean it's guaranteed to happen. However, guaranteed to happen. However, guaranteed to happen. 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