The Moment You Stop Living for Other People's Approval, This Happens | Ryan Leak

Key Takeaway

True generosity means giving without strings attached—once you give something, it's truly given. Stop keeping score or holding gifts over people's heads. The moment you bring up what you gave, it becomes a loan, not a gift. This shift in mindset transforms both your relationships and your sense of abundance. Practice giving freely this week without expectation of return or recognition.

Episode Overview

Ryan Leak, bestselling author and leadership consultant, shares his philosophy on generosity, faith, and dealing with difficult people. He reveals how measuring success by giving rather than earning has transformed his business, discusses the eight levels of generosity from Jewish culture, and explains his 'peace or pause' framework for decision-making. The conversation explores how to set boundaries while remaining generous, handle disappointing people with grace, and prepare proactively for difficult relationships.

Full Transcript

Transcript of The Moment You Stop Living for Other People's Approval, This Happens | Ryan Leak from The School of Greatness. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

I have this mantra of like don't match the energy set the standard. My expectations for other people it's not that they're low but they're realistic. I expect humanity from others. If I give to you and you take advantage of me, I don't know that you took advantage cuz I gave it. And once I give it, I truly give it. Some people give with strings attached. I give and now you owe me. Well, then that's not a gift. That's a loan. Best-selling author, a transformational speaker, and one of the most in-demand leadership consultants on the planet, we have the inspiring Ryan Leak in the house.

Scripture talks about not letting the left hand know what the right hand is doing when it comes to generosity. There is eight levels of generosity. generosity. generosity. Really? Each level has a different level of ego attached to it. Sometimes you can give with a smile on your face but you don't give enough. You need a hundred I go, "Hey, here's 50." But I smile. I got you. The highest level of generosity is actually not giving them money, it's putting them in a position to make money themselves.

It is not giving them fish, it's teaching them how to fish. How do you know if someone in your life aren't willing to learn how to fish for themselves and they're always coming back for more? You know, for me I I'm always You grew up speaking in the church cuz everything I see you do online is like perfect. Like you you have no mistakes, you're polished, you're put together and you sound like a preacher on a stage communicating to leaders. Sure. And I'm curious did the church ever let you down in your process of growing up that made you realize Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. you had to learn something different than outside of the church? Yeah, it's a good question. You know, the church was interesting. So, I grew up in the African Methodist Episcopal Church which basically means it was a black church. black church. black church. Yes. Yes. Yes. Nobody knows what that means. And so, my dad had a stroke when I was in the fifth grade. So, he actually lost his church. Like early on in life. Now, I was going to this private school that was connected to this predominantly large white church.

So, I went from all black church to all white church in like a weekend. And my parents were like, "Just, you know, go to go to church with your friends." And so, man, my my story would probably be the opposite. Like the church showed up for my family in a way that I'll never forget. Not your church, though. No. No. No. A different church. Just the church. Okay. In fact, here's here's the coolest part. I've never told this story to anybody. When my dad had a stroke in Rockford, Illinois, Illinois, Illinois, the pastor from another church was the first one at the hospital.

Really? Yeah. Not his own church. No. No. No. I don't remember anybody from his own church showing up. Maybe they did. Right, right, right. But it was a guy by the name of Sam Mayo who showed up at that hospital. Interestingly enough, my dad had a stroke stroke stroke when I was in the fifth grade, then he had another stroke 18 years later in Atlanta. It just so happened that the same guy, Sam Mayo, was also in Atlanta. I fly from Dallas and as I am walking into the hospital, so is Sam Mayo 18 years later.

So, my experience with the church has been one that isn't confined to the building. Mhm. I saw people show up, the power of presence, being being there. And so, that inspired me as a kid. I I I saw what it looked like to be the church, not go to church. I know. So, I wasn't big on like "Hey, did you go to church for Easter? Did you Did you check the box church attendance?" attendance?" attendance?" But, man, have you shown up for the people in your world?

Like I think church starts on Monday. That that that has always been been my mindset. And so, when watching my dad impact people's lives on a Sunday, I would always think, "What if we could do this on a Monday? What if we could do this on a Tuesday? What if we could do this on a Wednesday?" And so, I've always had this like heart for church but I've always had a mind for business. And so, And so, And so, that's where my communication style kind of had a little bit of a mix of both of being able to garner people's attention but at the same time give them something that's actually going to add value to the way that they lead, live, motivate them, write books, content on the internet.

I'm always I've I've always got that interesting dichotomy going on in my realm and how we create content. Something you talk about a lot of your content which is really I think how to be a more effective communicator and a more effective leader and really understanding understanding understanding human dynamics which I love that you talk about. I'm curious, what do you think is the first sign that you are living for someone else instead of yourself or your higher purpose? And I like to say often God has a plan for your life and so do other people.

I mean, it's just true. Which one are you going to choose? Every day you're going to have to make that decision because people will always be pulling you towards their preferences to make them more comfortable with your life. Mhm. And you're going to have to make a decision decision decision about about about who you're going to follow. What's going to be your north star? What's going to be the thing that helps you make decisions about your life. And you can do it by what other people think about you.

That is something that holds people back a lot. What is What are they going to think about me? But I'm more like I'm more concerned with what do you think about you? Mhm. Like if you don't have a solid view of yourself and where you're going, you will you will you will veer to the left or to the right just depending on who you're hanging out with, depending on who left a comment on the post, depending on the co-worker emailed you. Like you're you're to surrender the direction of your life to all of these different directions.

You're going to wake up very confused and probably very sad. So, I'm very much like, "Hey, God's got a plan for your life." And I wouldn't surrender to anybody else's plan. But how do you know what that plan is? Did you feel like you were distracted by other people's opinions growing up? Like how did you come to that conclusion? Man, I would I would say it's a daily battle for me. You know, people know, people know, people well-meaning people, family members, good friends. good friends. good friends.

"Hey, man, you know what you need to do is? Hey, man, you know what you should do? Oh, dude, I got I got to introduce you to this person. I got to" And you're like, "Yeah, I mean, I get what you're trying to do." But they can become uh what I would consider divine distractions. Like they they seem good but that doesn't mean that they are God. And separating the good from the God can be very very difficult. So, I don't think I've ever arrived at that.

I think every day I'm going, "Man, I've I've got to to to lay this down." And like I've got to surrender my business and my life and my parenting and my marriage to God every every single day. So, I had a buddy call me the other day. He's like, "K R I, so have you thought about a Netflix documentary?" And I'm like, I mean, have I ever thought about it? Sure, but Sure, but Sure, but I don't think that's what I'm supposed to do right now.

What is that? I would say it's a holy pause. pause. pause. Is what I would tell my kids it is. Like whenever you're trying to figure out a decision for there to be a holy pause to go, go, go, "Lord, is that what I'm supposed to be doing right now?" And I think that sensitivity, that slowness to be able to seek God in everything that you do to go, go, go, "Am I supposed to say yes to this? It looks good. It sounds good. But does that mean that it's God?" Mhm.

How do you know? you know? you know? I I I have a simple prayer. Lord, give me peace or pause. Have I gotten it wrong? Have I made the wrong decision before? Of course. Of course. Of course. But I'm always going to try to say, "Lord, I "Lord, I "Lord, I I hope you see that my heart's in the right place. And then I want to do the right thing. right thing. right thing. So, Lord, would you give me peace or pause? I don't think that you're always going to know.

know. know. But I do think you can always try to get it right. It just you you think about marriage. It's like I'm not always going to say the right thing but like hey, you know I love you. You know I'm trying to get it right. And I think that that is that is that is that's more important than actually like trying to be perfect. Trying to go, "Man, am I am I always making the right decision?" No, I'm trying to always make the right decision.

And I think in the process those you can live with that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you can live with the failures on that of just going, "Hey, I was I'm I'm trying to get it right." But when I get it wrong, be willing to raise your hand and say, "Hey, I I missed the mark on this one. I should have said no and I said yes and or or or I should have said yes and and I had said no, but I think you're just always trying to trying to read the situation.

So, when you have an opportunity in front of you or or or a business idea or a partnership or a gig that someone wants you to do, is that kind of what you do in turn internally? You say, "Give me peace in saying yes to this or give me pause if I'm not supposed to do this?" Or is that How does that work internally? It's Lord, give me peace or pause about this opportunity. opportunity. opportunity. And then I'm looking at the calendar. Yeah, you and I were talking about this beforehand.

Kids and all of it, you know, it's I get booked a year and a half in advance. My kids basketball schedule comes out a week before the first game. Yeah, good luck. And so, it's like he's like, "Are you going to be at my game next Friday?" I'm like, you mean I I don't know. Like it's it is a a a like I've got to look at all of your games that just came out and then match that with with the schedule. And so, it's not like it's high school football where you're like, "Oh, it's every Friday night." or whatever.

So, so that that that definitely goes goes into it. Then it's it's also looking at where it's at. You know, we talked about, you know, do I got to go overseas? Do I You know, how long is the flight? How long am I going to be gone? Uh my wife and I are going to Hawaii in a couple of weeks cuz I'm speaking out there. Well, then somebody else said, "Hey, can you come back to Hawaii 2 weeks later weeks later weeks later and speak for this other group?" And I went went went That's 8-hour flight.

That's long. It's like I never thought in my life I'd say no to Hawaii. If you would have told me even 4 years ago there would come a day where someone would want to pay you money to come to Hawaii. Not just go, pay you money to go. And you'd be like, "No, I'm just I'm not It's like What What planet are we on?" But it's like I don't I did I don't have a piece about going to Hawaii twice and being away from the kids.

And so, there there's a lot of things that that factor into it. So, it's a it's a great problem to have to be in demand, which you're grateful for, but every opportunity that hits my inbox, it it's it's deeper it's deeper than the most people would think. But how do you learn to say no when abundance is flowing your way? When Oh, I've been busting my butt for 10 15 years in this speaker journey, on this business journey, on building my name to be known enough to have these opportunities opportunities opportunities to create a living for myself.

And I wasn't always making this money. You know, I was maybe I was speaking for free when I was younger. And maybe I you know, I had to really put the reps in. And now I'm saying no to abundance. How do you feel and navigate that knowing how to say no to abundance to create a bigger or deeper abundance as well? well? well? It is a daily battle. Daily. But when I tell people that I truly truly truly trust God with our business, they they they it would blow their minds.

So, we measure our business by how much we give, not by how much we make. So, to the church, to the charities, or to whatever? Everywhere. Really? Everywhere. Really? Everywhere. Really? So, we have a donor advisory fund. I'm sure you might be familiar with that. Um so, we we stack the decks on our DAF. And we try to give away as much as we possibly can possibly can possibly can every single year. So, we have a giving goal. And so, that giving goal goes up drastically every single year.

So, I had mentors. My my very first boss, boss, boss, his wife, they decided they were going to give away her entire salary for a year and just give it away to missions organizations. organizations. organizations. Uh my second mentor, he lives off of 49% of their income. Doesn't matter what it is. They've had years where that was multiple millions. They've had years where it was bad and it was maybe it was only 600 grand. No matter what the number is, they live off of 49%. And I have another mentor who lives up here.

He lives off of 9% of his income. He gives away gives away gives away money though. He's making Well, you'd be you'd be surprised. He was giving away 63% 63% 63% of his income before he was a best-selling author and just started were raking it in at another level. But But most people think, "Well, you can do that now." It's just like, "No, no, no. I I was doing that when it was hard. And it might look easy now, but it's not. So, so for us, it's it's not necessarily an exact percentage, but it's a lot.

But you have a call every year like, "We did this this last year. What would [clears throat] it take to be able to give this much?" I I cannot tell you. I've got a private group chat group chat group chat where where where uh they're kind of in like a little mini mastermind with me. And they say, "Okay, so what's the secret sauce for Ryan Leak? We're in your mastermind." Give more. They're like, "No, no, no, but give me give me the marketing tips." Um give more.

They're like, "But But like come on, social media to I'm like, "Yeah, like it's all about giving. Giving value. Give like we talked about like your event before this." It's just like like like the event wasn't making money because it was it was just tons of giving value. And so, And so, And so, that heart of generosity isn't like pat on the back. The heart of generosity makes me show up to an event to go, "Hey, how How can I serve you guys?" I'm not just here because you paid me.

I'm here because I'm here to to add value. So, this is your event. It's not Ryan's event. This is This is Capital One's event. This is whoever's event. Like I'm here to serve you. And so, "Hey, what can my team do for your leaders? Hey, we're going to create a post-event playbook for every single leader." "Well, how much is that?" "It's free. You already paid me." Like you're just going to give it away? It's like, "Yeah, well, that's that's that's what we're That's what we're trying to do." So, generosity permeates everything everything everything that that we do.

So, you'd be surprised how many times we have I mean, as of yesterday. And I And I again, I'm not like a prosperity gospel person. But But But I have I have I have every single time that we have given big. We do not give to get. But every single time we've given big, I get like four or five contracts in my email. Like nearly within 24 hours. Related to the people that are around the giving or just somehow it comes to you? you? you? It has nothing to do with anything.

Wow. Nothing. I mean, I without giving numbers, numbers, numbers, I could I could I could show you screenshots on my phone that would absolutely absolutely absolutely blow your mind. So, because of that, when people go, "Man, it's like Man, the last 2 years, man, your stuff is like taking off." I'm like, our giving has taken off. taken off. taken off. It's not what Again, like did we get better at shooting video? Yes. Yeah, yeah. yeah. yeah. Did we do some of those Did we do some of those things?

Yes. things? Yes. things? Yes. and all this stuff. Yeah. But man, I so many things are outside of my control. And so, part of like this idea of abundance of our giving has drastically gone up and so has our income. Do you think if you weren't giving, let's say you were giving in whatever, a few percent a year. You know, you were generous here and there, you know, 20 bucks at church or whatever. You know, you're giving something every time, but you're not giving at a next level.

Do you think you'd be making as much as you are right now? If you kept putting in the same reps, the same energy, the same effort, same talent, same charisma, same dedication to mastering your craft and showing up and being a great leader, but you weren't financially giving to the levels you're giving. Would you be earning as much? I don't think so. Personally, I don't think so. I think I would be doing fine. I think I would be doing okay. I wouldn't say it's it's this way or the highway.

I would I wouldn't take it that far. I mean, I We know plenty of people who are making great money who aren't giving. So, um but for us, for the things that have come our way, I could I could show you 50 emails that you would go, "No way." There's That makes no sense. There's There's There's no way that you gave that on Tuesday and on Wednesday this person called like and that has nothing. The amount of time that it takes to have It's comical. Like we have an entire group chat that they go, "Again?

"Again? "Again? Again? Again? Again? How? That's insane." It's like it's it's it's it's kind of insane, but it's when I say I trust God, I I truly do. Like it's it's not something that it's a cute phrase or a verse that you just put on your refrigerator. For us, For us, For us, I don't know any other way to build a business. Personally. Other people do have done great built great businesses not trusting God. It's fine. For me, um I know for a fact I would not be where I'm at without without trusting God with our business completely.

How do you trust in God when people disappoint you? you? you? Yeah. People let you down. People take advantage of your generosity. They know you're a big giver. Hey, let's find a way for Ryan to give us some money, but then we don't fall through on our promises. We promises. We promises. We take advantage. We do some things that maybe were out of alignment. alignment. alignment. How do you navigate that in your heart? Mel Robbins, let them. Let them have I mean, mean, mean, like for me I I have this mantra of like, "Don't match the energy, set the standard." standard." standard." My expectations for other people it's not that they're low, but they're realistic.

I expect humanity from others. others. others. So, do you get let down when people show you who they are? Or they don't match your energy or your standard? No. No. No. Really? You don't get let down? Part of it is, you know, so I had this book come out last year. And the pub date got moved, I think, six times. six times. six times. Okay? Okay? Okay? Each time the team would be like, "You mad?" I said, "No, I was expecting it." "What do you mean you were expecting it?" I said, "Well, I "Well, I "Well, I just looking at all of the moving parts of what's happening with this book, it doesn't seem like it's going to be ready by the date.

And so, I set an expectation that expectation that expectation that it's probably going to come out 6 months later than what I had originally intended." intended." intended." It was actually 8 months. So, when the publisher and the editors and "Hey, Ryan, sorry we got to delay. I know this is upsetting." I'm like, "I'm okay. It's It's actually not upsetting." "Well, you're not upset?" Like Like Like it's not that I'm impervious to getting angry. Trust me, I can get angry. Ask my son. son. son. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. it's it's one of those things where you just kind of go at the end of my life I will be held accountable for my part. I won't be held accountable for your part. And so And so And so if I give to you and you take advantage of me of me of me I don't know that you took advantage cuz I gave it. And once I give it, I truly give it. Some people give with strings attached. I give and now you owe me. Well, then that's not a gift.

That's a loan. Giving is saying it's yours. Well. Whatever whatever it is that you want to do with this What if someone who's yours then speaks badly about you, talks nasty behind your back, lets you down breaks their promises and you've given them a big amount of money, time, energy resources. You've shown up for them and then they treat you this way. How do you that doesn't make you angry at all? There's got to be a little bit of like, man, I really showed up for this person.

a good question. I just gave them a hundred grand for free and now they just ran all over me and it's and it's and it's There's got to be some anger inside of you. Yeah, you know, that Or you're just like, and when that happens you're like, I'll just keep giving to them. Do you have boundaries Oh, yeah, yeah. You You're not You're not going to keep getting to get to get in the check. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there there is a you know you know you know part of it is there there was somebody we gave to who we you know, we found out was was was a fraud.

a fraud. a fraud. Oh, okay. Oh, okay. Oh, okay. Okay, like you got you got duped or you got you know say I got duped, but I would say they they certainly are not the person people think that they are. And and we we found out in some very interesting ways that this person was not who they said that they were. This person does not know that I know that they are not who they say they are. Still today? Still today? Still today? To this day.

I don't want Yeah, they could be watching this And think they're the best in the world. They don't know guy. guy. guy. Great job, man. I'm thinking about you. Hey, buddy. You watch yourself. But at the same time it's like hey, I I'm sad for you, man. Yeah, well. I'm really, really sad for you. You will not get another dollar from us. But But But I am I am I am I'm sad that you can't be who you really are. are. are. So I'm So I'm So I'm I'm not mad at you.

I'm sad for you. And so for me it doesn't it doesn't deter me from wanting to give more and more and more to other Really? No, I I again, at the end of the day I'm I'm going to be held accountable for how God trusted me with his resources. And so somebody else I I did what I felt like I was supposed to do. My wife and I talk about this all the time. I'm like, hey, look is there somebody we're supposed to give to? If it's through our job, great.

If it's if it's a person, great. Hey, if it's a friend, hey, great. Um we we try to be what we would call obedient to God in it. And if we're obedient to God in it, what that other person does is up to them, huh? Spring is here and SpringFest is happening now at Lowe's. Refresh your yard with StayGreen Premium 2 cubic foot mulch, five bags for just $10. Heading indoors, save up to 40% off select major appliances to help supercharge your chores. The best lineup is here at Lowe's.

Valid through April 22nd. While supplies last. Selection varies by location. See lowes.com for details. Mulch offer excludes Alaska and Hawaii. I have so much on my plate. If I'm sitting around thinking about what this what this what this It's like, no, I I'm I'm going to be distracted from the room that I'm actually in cuz I'm thinking about this other person. And so I wouldn't say it's not that I don't get angry when I think about that person or or that transaction, if you will, but again, I again, I again, I I have been on the receiving end of people who gave with strings attached.

And I'm like, you didn't then you didn't give it. Unless it was like, okay, there's a I'm going to deliver something. You're going to It's a business deal. I'm going to speak on stage and you're giving me a check to deliver a service because we have an agreement. That's different. Totally. Totally. Totally. This is not, hey, I'm just going to give you five grand to help you out. But then later oh, you owe me the you know, or something else. You know, so something happens you like, hey, Ryan, I need to borrow a hundred grand.

And I say, hey, man, I'm going to give you a hundred grand. grand. grand. If I bring that up over dinner two years later, then I didn't give it. It's It's not even like Unless there was an agreement you're going to pay this back. Yeah, something. Yeah, something. Yeah, something. has to be an agreement. But I just the the giving I I grew up around some generous people. What are the What's this generous means? They were generous but they always brought it up. Oh. They always hung it over my head.

I always buy dinner. Well, then stop buying dinner. Right. It's like if you if you're going to bring it up, then it's not it's not generous anymore. Does that make sense? There is a string attached. And so for my wife and I, when we give, we really try to like walk away. It's yours. And now I'm not like watching you. It's like, no, it's if if God told us to give it, then we have to let let let let it go. And so I I just I never want to give and be looking over somebody's shoulder.

shoulder. shoulder. How do you know when to give or who to give to? Yeah. So for us, we we have several and and being a speaker is kind of nice cuz you get to meet so many different kinds of people doing all sorts of of different things and you know, if it's a cause, you know, there's somebody on our team. She helps raise money for single moms. And I was like, that's so awesome. And she had just joined our team. And so I just I looked at my wife.

I said, I said, hey, what do you think about this organization? Hey, could you send me the website? We send the website and we just we just give. Scripture talks about not letting the left hand know what the right hand is doing when it comes to generosity. generosity. generosity. Like the the more you're involved in it the the the more your ego can get involved. In fact, in Jewish culture, we're getting deep in the generosity, there was eight levels of generosity. Really? Yeah, eight levels. The first level was where you um you give but you give with a grudge.

Begrudgingly. Yeah, you're like, yeah, man, yeah, you can have it. Yeah. Frustrated. Frustrated. Frustrated. Yeah, but it goes all the way to um each level has a different level of ego attached to it. Sometimes you can give with a smile on your face, but you don't give enough. You need a hundred, I go, hey, here's fifty. But I smile. I got you. Yeah, yeah. Um but then um there were actually like rabbis that would walk around towns and they would keep coins on the back of their robes.

So people would act the poor could actually grab money off of their robes, but they didn't actually know who it was. They kept moving. Well, that's interesting. And then there were other times, different levels of generosity, where they would actually put coins in poor people's like mailboxes back then, if you will. So they knew who the receiver was, but the receiver didn't know. Very interesting. So you don't know that it's me. Then there's like anonymous giving. It's like you know, so we like to do anonymous giving where our friends get to pour it out.

Like, man, you won't believe what happened. I'm like, I kind of do believe what happened, you know? But it's like the more you're involved, the more ego that is there. The highest level of generosity is actually not giving them money. It's putting them in a position to make money themselves. Mhm. That's the highest level of generosity is not giving them fish. It's teaching them how to how to fish. Sometimes people don't want to learn how to fish. No. They say they want to, but they really the work and time and energy and that takes to invest in generating fish, generating money.

Totally. They want the easy relief now. Yes. But that's the hard thing, though. It's like, how do you know if someone in your life or life or life or people people people aren't willing to learn how to fish for themselves. And they're always coming back for more. How do you navigate that Yeah. from being an enabler to someone who's empowering? Totally. You know, for for me I I'm always I mean, again, it goes back to peace or pause. There's people that we've given to on one month and then the next month they ask but you just say, hey, no, not this time.

Mhm. And and that's just that's that's just peace or pause for us. us. us. Sometimes I'll tell a friend um you don't need my money, you need my mind. mind. mind. If I gave you an hour of my time the money you're asking for. You're You're asking the wrong question to the wrong person. If you have somebody like my's my's my's phone number and attention, you should be asking me for thirty minutes, not Does Does that make But that goes back to them them may they even if they took it, they may not act on it.

You know what I mean? They may not act on the wisdom. They have to be ready for that. You know, they have to want and seek it out. That's what my friend calls an ask hole. An ask hole is somebody that asks the same questions over and over again. Doesn't but doesn't do it again. Yeah. I got some ask holes in my life. Sure. But man, I I just I think where my my my posture towards humanity and other people, the chill nature of that I think comes from the fact that man, so many people in my life gave me a shot when they shouldn't have.

Yeah. They gave me a pass. And so it it's it's hard for me to hold people to the letter of the law. It's not It's not that I don't get mad or I don't get bothered. It's just that I know that there was somebody that should have been mad at me and wasn't and and and talked to me in a tongue that was respectful and and and showed me a lot of grace. So, it's it's hard for me to hold people to the letter of the law when when when I've been given so much.

Did I could just I could go on forever telling you stories about like when my dad had a stroke. stroke. stroke. I was at that private school. We're getting ready to leave that private school because we couldn't afford to be there anymore. And there was a freshman English teacher named Mrs. Halstead who came to my mom and she says, "Hey, me and my husband see your boys potential. We'll pay for their tuition." Wow. So, again, it's like they didn't know me. They they're just they're just rolling the dice and and I had to talk to Mrs.

Halstead about a month ago. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Unbelievable conversation. Unbelievable conversation. Unbelievable conversation. happened? happened? happened? Well, because she's just I said, "Hey, I don't know if you know this, but I talk about you a lot in Corporate America, so that's all over the world, you know?" She said, "You do?" do?" do?" I'm like, "Yeah, you I'm thinking you should be a little bit more excited that I'm like, you know, telling the story about you." about you." about you." And she's like, "Yeah, you know, Ron, that was just me being faithful to what God asked me." Wow.

Like it it's not like a a show for her. And I said, "Where does Where does your spirit of generosity come from?" She said, said, said, "In this world, there are givers and takers. takers. takers. My mom was a taker and my dad was a giver." And she said, "I love my mom, but I wanted to be like my dad." my dad." my dad." Oh. Oh. Oh. And so, And so, And so, not super wealthy, but very, very generous. And there's a massive difference. Mhm. So, so, I mean, I I could Did I could go on and on of so many people in my life that just um helped me stay in college.

I didn't have a scholarship at a D3 school. No scholarship coming in, man. Yeah, so it it's so so many people helped me out along the journey when I wasn't who I am today. You know, they were just looking at potential and so, sometimes I want to hold people to the letter of the law and go, "Why won't you just get your act together? Why won't you just listen to me? Why won't you just take my advice? If you would just listen to me, your life would be so much better." But it's like, "Dude, I I I've been hardheaded.

I've I've not listened before. I've I've received advice that I didn't practice and and yet people didn't cut me off. They stayed in relationship with me and so, so, for me, I I wouldn't say it's easy, but but but when you've been given a lot of grace, it's hard to withhold it from other people. people. people. But there's a lot of difficult people out there. There's a lot of difficult people out there and you talk about that in your book. He's so good. And I and I'm curious, um I think most people aren't clear on what they're supposed to do with difficult people.

Maybe they've tried a lot of different strategies. different strategies. different strategies. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They maybe they've tried to avoid them or confront them or just power through. But what are people actually doing wrong when dealing with difficult people? Well, Well, Well, number one, I think people are reacting to difficult people. All of us are at our worst when we're reacting. Every single one of us. I don't know one great reactor. I don't know anybody that's like, "You know what? I'm really good when I'm reacting." Like, who has good reacting skills?

Who's writing a book on how to react well? It's like you No, you're reacting and so, if you're reacting, you're never going to be the kind of person you actually want to be. And so, what we talk about in in books and in seminars and in keynotes, it's like you've got to be a proactive person, which means you have to prepare for difficult people ahead of time. What's funny about people that are navigating difficult individuals is they're always surprised by them. Always. In fact, in our research, we kept hearing this phrase over and over again.

I can't believe. I I I Can you believe they said this? Can you believe they left this comment? Can you believe they hit reply all? Can you believe that they would say that in front of my boss? Can you believe that they would bring up my past? Can you believe that they ghosted me? I can't believe. believe. believe. And we're like, "I actually think you should believe them." Like, you've known this person for a very, very long time and you're letting this person catch you off guard and you're reacting.

Be proactive. Be proactive. Be proactive. Proactive means you're going, "All right, if I've known this person for a long time, history tells me that Monday Monday Monday they could act a fool." Yes. And and historically, my plan has been when they act a fool, I act foolish-er. Okay, I act more of a fool even more. You know, it's like, "So, I'm going to match act a fool for act a fool." It's like, "Well, that's not a good plan." And so, so, if you know this person has act a fool potential on a Monday morning, why don't you on Monday morning go, "You know what?

What if what if I prepared for act a fool? What if I called act a fool on the way to work and said, 'Hey, can I get you a cup of coffee?'" No. What do you mean? Hey, I'm I'm I'm pulling in Starbucks, guy. guy. guy. Can I get you a cup of coffee? I knew you were going to have an attitude, but I'm I'm prepared for it, but I'm not going to let your bad attitude create a bad attitude in me. In the process of working with people that we don't like, we can become people we don't like.

And that that's that's what this book is all about. all about. all about. Yeah. It it's about going, "Everybody wants me to come in and go, 'So, can you fix them for me?'" I'm like, "Yeah, but I can't work on them until we talk about us." Like, because this is what you can actually control. And so, if I can prepare for complicated people, if I can prepare for difficult people, well, well, well, my energy is different walking in the room because I'm actually expecting it. So, a lot of it comes down to expectations and expectations and expectations and that are often unspoken.

I I would I don't know what the data is, but I would say most of our expectations are unspoken. Especially humanity around us. And when somebody doesn't live up to the expectations that we have internally, we think that others are going to be like us. Right. us. Right. us. Right. Which Most people aren't. They aren't. And which would be a terrible world if everybody else is just like us. That's what most people's plan is, though. Like, whenever they get a difficult person, person, person, they go, "If I could just change them." Mhm.

Especially marriage. Just got If I could just get in there and and and and change them. It's like, "Yeah, but that quietly communicates to the world around us that the world would be a better place if everybody else was just like us." That's just not true. So, if that's the case, then I think we have to be the kinds of people who step back and just go, "All right, how can I prepare for this knowing that this person is coming? Knowing that this person is coming over for Thanksgiving.

Knowing that I'm going to be in a meeting with them on a Tuesday. Knowing that I'm going to see them on Friday night. Knowing that they're going to try and sit next to me at my kids soccer game." It's like, we just act so surprised. And so, we just try to help people to go, "Stop being surprised. They're coming. They have packed their bags. It's on a flight. It's coming. The question is, how are you going to show up when they do? Don't react. Be proactive." But what if you can't?

You don't you weren't expecting it. Let's say you weren't proactive. You you didn't know they were going to show up and they showed up unexpectedly. Sure. You know, it's some new person that shows up that you weren't even aware of and they show up Yeah. in a way that's causing chaos in your inner world or your environment. How do you prepare for the unexpected? Some people will literally trigger your nervous system. It's a thing. Yes. Do you get triggered? Yes. Yes. Yes. Your nervous system get triggered?

I mean, I I don't know if I would go that deep, but it could. You seem like a pretty relaxed, calm guy. most part. For the most part. But how do you handle it when your nervous system gets triggered, then? Literally, I have to have a conversation with God internally to go, "Okay, I know I want to react right now, but but but let me try to think about what's going on with this person that I cannot see." So, So, So, I believe that every difficult person that you deal with has a difficult behind the scenes that they've not told you about.

And if you could see that, you would understand the behavior and the words that are coming out of their mouth that mouth that mouth that most of the time don't have anything to do with you at all. I would too. And so, if my kid has an outburst, if a colleague is saying something just wild, I have to go, something feels off." And then I I try to move towards the mess and and have a real conversation to say, "Hey, there there's a there's a there's a cuz we can talk about what you just said, but I think I think we would be missing the forest for the trees if we went there.

So, So, So, it seems like there's something underneath the surface that's happening here. here. here. Can we talk? Can we Can we Can we can we dial it down just a little bit? Part of it is being the adult in the room. room. room. Also, when I say expect complicated, I also have a job where I go to a place every couple of days where the angriest people in the world go every single day, the airport. Okay? Listen, people be mad all the time. Like, and they be getting mad at stuff that's completely outside of their control.

They're mad at the airlines. They're mad at gate agents. They're mad at TSA. at TSA. at TSA. Yeah. I have just I just started going, "You know what? There could be delays. And if there is, well, then I guess I'm just going to have a good day at the airport." Yeah. It's I've made up my mind. I I call it pre-decisions. I think you need to make good decisions. I think you need to make better pre-decisions. Pre-decision is saying, "Hey, I've I've already decided what kind of week I'm going to have.

I've already decided what kind of day I'm going to have. I've I've already decided how I'm going to show up to that meeting. I've already decided how I'm going to show up to that lunch. I have I have that decision is already made. I have already made a decision to forgive people in the future who have yet to hurt me." I've already made that decision. So that when it comes, I'm not like, "Oh, well, what should I do?" do?" do?" Not sure. It's like, no, I already made this decision that I'm going to be a forgiving person.

I've already made that decision. And so, if I've already made that decision, you can say something crazy today and I and it doesn't mean it doesn't hurt my feelings. But I've already made a decision that says, "You know what? I don't know everything that's going on in Louis's day, but but but perhaps something happened to him that would make him say something to me and I can't see it all." And all I know is this, is if I said something crazy to Louis, what would I want him to do for me?

I would want him to forgive. So, in light of that, I'm going to let it go. And the other alternative is this, I can get angry, hold on to bitterness, and carry that to the airport. Why would I do that? If I have a choice, which I believe believe believe people have choices. And so, I'm always like, man, they're like, "Choose joy." What do you mean, choose joy? I'm like, "Okay, you tell me your choice. Choose bitterness? bitterness? bitterness? Choose anger? Choose anger? Choose anger? You want to hurt like if we if we get to make choices and peace is on the table, joy is on the table, I'm grabbing peace.

What are you going to grab? And so, but it is, it's I've I've made a decision about my future. And so, it it it allows me to enter into spaces that can be toxic, that can be chaotic, and and and I don't have to become chaotic in the midst of chaos. I've made a decision I can't tell you how many times many times many times an event planner is freaking out. Hey, how are you? She's like, "You just have such a calming presence." And I go, I knew, but I've been expecting you all month.

I knew you were coming. So, I pre decided that decided that decided that I wasn't going to freak out with you cuz I knew you were going to freak out. So, somewhere in your world, you you can't always always always get it perfect. But again, when you when you've made several pre decisions about how you're going to show up in a room, another pre decision, completely different. different. different. Um I've pre decided that I won't walk in a room and prove myself to anybody. Pre decision.

Pre decision. Pre decision. And prove yourself. Prove myself. What does that look like? Because man, I Or what does that not look like, I guess. And that that used to be like my whole internal world. Was I got to impress you. I got to impress people. So, I'm building a brand. You're speaker, like you've got to you got to prove yourself. And And And one day I just made a decision that says, actually I I don't have to do that. And it was so freeing. Wow.

It was all it was so freeing. And here's what's crazy is when I stopped trying to prove myself, you make a much better impression cuz you're just way calmer. You're just you're just you. You're you're way more yourself than when you're trying to like prove something to to somebody. So, This message is brought to you by Apple and Verizon. And if you scroll enough online, you'll hear it all. Miracle diets, fitness trends, crazes like celery juice and cold plunges, you name it. But with iPhone and Apple Watch, you get meaningful insights from a very trusted source, your body.

Because the information [clears throat] you get should reflect the body you're in. With Apple Watch, you can track things like your sleep quality, your cycle, your cardio fitness, and more. You can then unpack all the information on Apple iPhone on the Health app, which allows you to track and view your data over time. And all these health insights are developed with experts from start to finish. Find out more at apple.com/health. apple.com/health. apple.com/health. Apple Watch is not a medical device and should not be used as a substitute for professional medical advice.

Where did that come from, the need to prove yourself in life? Culture. Culture. I mean, wanting to be successful, growing up broke, you know, it's this is the way of the world. This is just how it works and you've first impressions are everything. Everything that you hear, you know, as an adolescent and in college and you know, you've got to make a good impression. I mean, in fact, like I still do interviews, as weird as that sounds, for gigs. Like I still get interviewed for jobs all the time.

Where they're like, "Hey, we're interested in you speaking here, but we want to get on a call first." first." first." Yes. And I lose it all the time. Really? All the time. They're like, "He's not our guy." Oh, wow. Like I still live in that. Like even as successful as I am now, it's like I still still still can feel that pressure of like I got to do this song and dance for you. And Huh. And Huh. And Huh. And sometimes I'll just give a vibe like, actually I I don't I don't sing or and I don't dance.

And so, If you want me to take me or not. if they and and sometimes but I used to be like, "Oh my gosh, what do you want me to do? Just tell me." And and and I you want me to sing? Okay, so I'll sing. Or you want me to tap dance? So, I'll tap And then one day I was I'm like, I'm exhausted trying to be everything for everybody else. everybody else. everybody else. And so, again, I just I just I just made a pre decision that says, "Hey, I I I'm I'm happy to share with you what I can do to add value to your organization, but I don't have the posture of oh, I got to got to got to I got to prove it." But how old were you when that started to like transform from proving to proving to proving to being at peace with who you were?

All right, so I'm 39 right now. When did that happen? 38? I mean, now. I mean, it's it's I I did I'm I'm always a work in progress, you know? There there is a there's a lot that can be thrown at you, especially you you throw a lot of money into the mix and you can feel the like to pay you a lot of money. You know, up to the amount of times somebody has told me, "Hey, I you you're very expensive and uh you know, I signed the contract and the CEO doesn't know it, so no pressure." All right.

You're like, uh Well, I didn't tell you to do that. I hear you. Like but now it's like there's pressure, so it it there's it's taken a lot of inner God dialogue to get to a place where I just show up and and I say, "Hey, I'm going to give my best and and I think this is going to go well. I think I'm pretty good at what I do. I've put in the hours. I love my craft. I work on my craft every single day.

I lock in for every single client I have. have. have. Um sometimes you miss. Sometimes you miss, man. miss, man. miss, man. That's why we didn't go D1, you know what I'm saying? I feel like there's a lot of lies that people tell themselves. You're around people all the time from the corporate world to sports to everyday people. everyday people. everyday people. What do you think is the biggest lie people people people believe? believe? believe? The biggest lie people believe starts with I can't. They have more I can'ts than they have I cans.

cans. cans. And so, those I can'ts really can steer people's lives people's lives people's lives a lot. a lot. a lot. And I think that's a big lie that people believe that they will always fall short of their potential because of their I can'ts. And we can fill in the blank on what the I can't is, you know? I think another big lie that I see with a lot of people is they have this like if it's never been done before, then then then how could it ever be possible with me?

I mean, how many people have sat on this very podcast that were the first? And so, And so, And so, most people believe that they have to be second. second. second. It's a big lie. It's never been done before. Most people want tried and true, but for something to be tried and true, somebody's got to try. That's right, man. So, that's that's act that that's why they pay me the big bucks. bucks. bucks. Cuz I'm there to get you to try. I'm I'm there to get No, you go first.

No, no, we're going to wait for somebody else to jump in the pool. I'm like, somebody's got to test the pool. Why not you? Why not me? What's the biggest lie you believe about yourself right now? The biggest lie that I believe about myself right now is that that I'm just a speaker. That that is the that that's the only value that I bring to the world mm is is with a microphone. And what is the on the other side of that lie? I don't know.

Working two, though. though. though. I don't know. I mean, it's like you you spend so much of your career trying to be good at this thing, and then you get good enough, if you will, and then one day you wake up and you go, "Am I supposed to be doing more than this?" Less than this. More or less. Something different. Something different. Something different. Something you yeah, you know. And then you you get the everybody's got a plan for your life, so there's God sort of thing.

And then yeah, so you you can you you can believe a lot of lies in there of just you you are the only value you're bringing is is what you can do on a stage or what you can do for somebody's phone on social media, you know, you can easily fall for the trap of believing like those things are your identity. So, so for me, I I think it's it's a daily fight to go, I'm not I'm not only what you see on your phone. I'm not only what you see on a stage and um um um So, yes, I think trying to answer that question of like, who are you and what do you bring to the world?

Um is is a is an interesting dance, for sure. What was the biggest limiting belief you had growing up that you had to overcome? Man, it's probably the so many narratives around race. Really? Oh, yeah. Just being black. And what that means. means. means. And what And what And what you know, you you hear so many things about what it means to be a black man in America. America. America. And most days I'm just like I'm just emailing like crazy and it's not like I don't sign my email Ryan Leslie, the black guy.

black guy. black guy. You know, you're like, finally, like, let's go. Let's move on to the next thing. Uh-huh. And so then it's like well, as a And it And again, sometimes it's like a limiting belief that is partially true in some ways. And so I spoke for spoke for spoke for um um um a Fortune 100 company. I was the first black speaker that they've ever had for their executive retreat. retreat. retreat. And there is one black guy on their board and he told me.

He came to me after and he goes What? He goes, "No, it can't be you before you. You're the first black guy. Don't be the last." Oh my gosh. All right. Before your speech, no pressure. Yeah, and then he goes goes goes and then I finish and he goes, "Because you were first, you won't be the last." He goes, "You crushed it." He goes, "You you were the perfect you were the perfect first." And I'm like Okay. Thanks. You know, it's like I don't you don't really know what like are you limiting what I can do from your vantage point because I don't plan on limiting myself.

And so That's good. I think another limiting belief that belief that belief that permeates every day is that So So, it's kind of it's it's different. So, I So, I So, I I do 120 events a year. 100 of those events are corporate America events all over the place. And then 20 of those are in mega churches. Mhm. And so what I have been told is that you can't do both. both. both. Uh You have to pick one. You either have to pick a pastoral life or you have to pick a keynote speaker life.

But you cannot Really? mix the two. You you cannot speak in churches and speak at these top companies. You you can't You can't do that on your social media. I've been told by plenty of people, "You have to stop posting faith content." You can't do that. So, it's almost like the religious people have limited you. Those are the And the ones in this setting have kind of said, "Hey, you got to kind of pick and choose." Or is it the corporate people have said that? Both.

Really? Both sides. Both sides have said I've heard it from both sides. But the corporate people keep booking you the more and you're doing it. Well, now They're you back. Yes. But even when I first got in, it was like, "Hey, dude, you got to delete your faith stuff." Literally was told that. Other speakers Other speakers right now would be like, "How is Ryan getting away with that?" Because the mantra is if you continue to talk about your faith this much this much this much corporate America won't trust you cuz they'll think you're coming in to preach.

Or I don't know what they they think is is going to happen. convert to something. Something, right? But it's only it it's only grown Mhm. the more that I So, So, yes, some people will put that limiting belief on you of going if you're going to be effective in the church, then you can't be effective in business. And it's like, or you could just do a good job in both. It's it's kind of my mindset. Exactly. Blend the two. Cuz it sounds like you're like you're like you're you've learned now how to not be a people pleaser.

Yeah. Is what I'm hearing you say in the last 6 months. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, literally. No, literally. No, literally. Because you've had to figure out, okay, I'm I want to make corporate people happy and happy and happy and faith-based people happy and make sure they're not doing the wrong things. But it sounds like you're just being you. Yeah. Do you think someone can truly reach their potential if they're being a people pleaser to others? No. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. I I think that if you do the hard work of being yourself which is a lot of work, man.

It's It's It's Or Or it could be the easy work. Just be yourself and stop pleasing everyone else. Either how you look at, you know. Yeah. It's hard for me It's been hard for me for a long time. Yeah. But the more you practice it and you're just like, oh, I'm just going to be me and I have have have my five core friends around me and I don't need everyone else to like me. Hopefully they respect me or they like me, but I don't need to care what they think about me.

Yeah. Cuz I have my wife and my kids and my my five friends that I play pickleball with, you know, whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm good. But it's so it I grew up where it was so hard where I wanted everyone to like me, right? right? right? Yes. I didn't want people to not like me. Yes. me. Yes. me. Yes. And that was based on wounds and traumas and different things that I'd learned how to heal, but Yeah. And it it was exhausting trying to get everyone to be okay with who I was and the shape-shifting or changing to please someone else or, you know, the song and dance.

Yeah. dance. Yeah. dance. Yeah. It was exhausting. Oh, yeah. And it's like I could I can only imagine what I could have done with the energy I had that I lost by trying to please other people. Yeah, it's it's I think sometimes you know, I mean, you're you're a high performer. You you have a lot going on. You know, it's it's you're what I would call not normal. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. And then you have people in your world who would really benefit from you being normal.

Mhm. normal. Mhm. normal. Mhm. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Like, just come to the barbecue. They'd feel more comfortable if you Like, they would Relax. And so that like, what do you mean you can't come? You're like You're like You're like Well, you Well, you Well, you I got I don't know if you know I I got a I got this Olympic thing over here. I got this dream. I got this thing, yeah. Yeah, I I kind of got this Olympic thing going on. I don't know if you You're I mean, it's like, you you are you doing like this you're you're trying to make an Olympic thing?

Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, I got Next time. Yeah, it's like I I got rehab I got I got work to do. And so not everybody's going to understand that. And so that that that is the piece, especially over the last 3 years for me where people that I had to get really okay using a phrase with acquaintances with acquaintances with acquaintances that they were very uncomfortable with. Because there are people who uh we were acquaintances and I don't know 2015. I don't know, maybe we played basketball together.

basketball together. basketball together. No. And then they see whatever proverbial success they believe I have now now now they'll be like telling their friends, "Yeah, yeah, Ryan's my boy. We're we're friends." And then they kind of like want to cash in on our friendship or whatnot. And I've just I've just I've had to say this to a few people over the last year and said, "Hey, I I love you, but we're not friends." Oh, man. man. man. Gosh, I've done that in the last few years.

years. years. Without the I love you part, but just we're not friends. We're not I haven't spoken to you in years. You want something from me and acting like we're friends. We're not friends. Yeah. It was probably the scariest thing the scariest thing to do to say that the first time, we're not friends. But then afterwards it just felt so free. Oh my gosh. The free Dude, I was like When I said it, I was like, I can't believe I'm saying this. Yeah. Cuz I all I wanted when I was a kid was friends.

This is whatever what I'm saying? You just want to be alone, right? alone, right? alone, right? But it's like comes a time where you just can't fake it anymore. You know what I'm saying? Dude, like I the more I started saying it they'd be like, "What do going to call in 6 months from Ryan? Lewis, we're not friends." Hey, man, we're not friends. Like, I would I would just say like and they would be so hurt hearing that. And then I would just say "What are my kids' names?" Oh, yeah.

Ooh. Like, what They. Yeah, what's my wife's name? Like, what like what are we Tell me something that's going on in my actual life that you don't see on social media. Things. Does that make What are my kids' names? We're not friends. You you see my highlights on the internet. the internet. the internet. That's it. Mhm. You don't know anything. pick up basketball 10 years ago. Yeah, I don't like I don't even play anymore. That's how much you were not friends. It's the fact that you still think that I like you wouldn't even you wouldn't even know that.

And so And sometimes I've I've had to tell people like, we don't have a bad relationship. We don't have one. Right. We're just not friends. We're not we're not friends. And hey, that's not a problem. That's okay. I respect you. Yeah. I wish you the best. Yeah, I do. I wish you the best. Like, we there's no ill will here. It's like, but why am I pretending pretending pretending that we're closer than we really are? Like if like And conversely And conversely And conversely I don't know your kids' names.

Yeah. I don't know what's going on in your lives. And stuff. will say, "You never call me." I'll go, "My phone works. You never call me either. Why is the onus all on me?" It's like we're like we're like we're Not that close. Yeah, we're not friends. And And I started doing that at 38. It's a It's a 6 months ago. Isn't that crazy? I mean, it's it's And there is there is something So, when I was turning 30, the last day of my 20s, I was speaking for somebody somebody somebody and I was talking about a documentary that I'd done.

And And And this lady, she says I was literally I was I was 29. I had one day left in my 20s. And she goes "Do you want to know why we booked you to speak?" I said, "Why?" She goes goes goes "It's not because you're a good speaker." speaker." speaker." She said, "Your documentary Well, it Well, it Well, it My daughter's dating this guy and he's I He's kind of a druggy and he lives on the floor of a crack house. But But But he does love basketball.

Your documentary's about basketball. So, he So, I actually had him over to the house and and we watched your documentary. and because of your documentary he called 73 junior colleges and asked them if if if he could come and play basketball and he's going to be playing college basketball this fall. He called his mom who he had not spoken to in five years. She said you're not a good speaker. She said you pulled a young man's life off the floor. And And And that day I said, how do I want to spend my 30s?

And at the time I was I was on an executive team at a at a big church. And I and I just thought, man I love this church but somebody else can be on the executive team and I quit. Wow. And I said I want to spend my 30s pulling people's lives off the floor. If I have that ability that ability that ability I want to do everything in my power to make that happen. That's pretty cool. So now that I'm entering into my 40s I'm asking myself that question too of going, how do I want to spend my 40s?

And part of that is is as I'm filling in the blank as I'm inching towards August 20th 20th 20th when I turn 40 I'm I'm going I don't want to be juggling juggling juggling these random relationships that I really don't have when I could just be honest with that person and just go, man I respect you. Hope hope things are well but like we're not we're not friends. Stop putting me in group chats connecting me connecting me connecting me with people that we're not even connected to.

I don't want to get connected to you. Yeah yeah. I don't It's it's so to to be able to have some of those I wasn't willing to do that even six seven months ago. It's scary man. But but yeah as as you enter into your 40s you go, man I really I really want to enjoy my 40s and I really want to be surrounded by the people that people that people that are actually are actually are actually my friends instead of using a bunch of little energy for a lot of small relationships that really are superficial.

Yeah man. And then and whatnot. So it it's again it's it's a daily journey for me. I I wish that I was all polished and put together but that that's just that's just not the truth. Next six months text me how many times you you tell that to somebody and I'll let you know. We'll hold each other accountable. We're not friends. We'll create their own group chat group that we're not friends chat. Yep here's the person. Bro if I sent you some screenshots of people that were like, come on man we go way back.

I'm like, way back where? Where do we go way back to you know? Something I heard you say before is why having a backup plan actually is the thing that's killing most people's dreams. dreams. dreams. Why is that? Yeah, you know I I think whenever there is a this idea of here's my parachute you you don't you don't go all in. You don't give it your best because you have that fallback plan. So it's not about a wisdom side of things it's about putting yourself in the prime position to move towards your goals and you know the famous scene in the The Dark Knight Rises, how did he make the jump without rope?

Mhm. It's the only way you can make it. It was just an iconic scene and as soon as he said without rope everyone in the theater went theater went theater went Or or you die. Yeah you either make it or you're dead. But there's but when you know you don't have rope you jump a little higher. Oh yeah. And that that is the it's like, Ryan what can I do to jump a little higher? Run a little faster. Lose the rope. It's it's the only way to you It's like, do I train harder?

It's just like, I mean that'll help but when you don't have that rope and it's your only thing you're you're going to go further than your competition. competition. competition. What is the rope you're holding on to in your life right now that you need to let go of? go of? go of? I I don't know the exact answer to that question to be honest. You know I you know we were talking before it's like, do I start doing my own events? Don't do it unless you feel called man.

I mean but that again that that's the like So sometimes I'm like, oh I'm holding on to just like like one of my friends he calls me and he goes, you got a corporate couch man. He said you're you're just arriving you're I'm like it's kind of cruising but at the same time like it's like dude I got to lock in. Like But you're in the flow too with it. Yeah it's like I enjoy it but it's it's a how long can you do that and then it's like okay I'm going to keep writing a book every Let's say you let's go your your few months before your 50.

Let's go 10 years in the future. Man. future. Man. future. Man. And let's say you you lock in for the next decade doing the exact same things to the maximum. You're 120 150 days on the road speaking. You've maxed the revenue generation. You've maxed your level of giving. You're giving 49.5% 49.5% 49.5% to go even more than your friend every year. You are writing a book a year. Yeah. Maybe you're doing events you know smaller event in Dallas once a year and you maximize for a decade the exact same path just better.

Yeah. How do you think you'll feel at 49 and a half looking back at the last decade? Do you feel like you dropped the rope and went for it? Or do you feel like you were holding on to something that was comfortable that you were great at that was familiar? Do you feel like you served at the greatest level or you served what was great for you and easy for you cuz you could just do it on autopilot? Yeah. autopilot? Yeah. autopilot? Yeah. What do you think 49 year old you will say in a decade?

And I think it also before you even answer it I think it's also a question for everyone to answer to reflect on cuz you don't have to let go of the rope of every moment to like create something incredible or go for something. You don't have to do that also. You don't have to strive and achieve everything. Yeah. You can live a beautiful fulfilling life in the pocket. Totally. So one of one of the questions that guided my 30s was what would you do if you knew you couldn't fail.

Okay so that was a big part of what I talk about and getting people to try things and whatnot. When I first answered that question is oh I'd be in the NBA documentary you do that whole deal great. great. great. This next question I I don't know if I'm going to make it uh public facing. I don't know if I'm going to like do something with this question but it has been something I've been wrestling with which is what would you do if you never needed another dollar in your life?

Uh-huh. What if you were set for life? What would you do with all of your time if you were post economic? We have some friends who are post economic, right? They don't need money anymore. They they make an interest what we all dream of making someday, right? But yet they still work. Which is interesting. Yeah why? Yeah why? Yeah why? Yeah it's like what this because they love it? Because they need it? You need purpose? You need you know? you know? you know? But I I've I've begun to think like okay if I didn't need a dollar would I do every event that I'm doing this year?

No. I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I wouldn't I wouldn't do every event. I mean I'd do a lot of them but I wouldn't do every single one of them. And so when I think about 10 years from now now now I think I think I think man would I start saying no even more to create margin for for for fun projects. fun projects. fun projects. Mhm. That don't need to make money. That don't need to make money. That's what my event was. Yeah no but again a fun project that made no money no dollars no cents but it brought a lot of joy and fulfillment and impact.

And dude I I think And it had its season and its place and and 100%. But but I when I think about that I think about like okay five years from now from now from now I say no more and I've got margin and I and I call Lewis cuz we're friends now, right? We're real friends. Hey Lewis. Hey man I got some extra time. We should just do an event together and like let's see how many of people like us would be willing to just all donate our time our time our time to do something to make LA a better city.

Cool. city. Cool. city. Cool. And let's see let's see how much money we could raise for the Boys and Girls Club of of LA and hey it's going to be a light lift. Oh hey guess what I found a production company to donate all of the gear and all of their hours for so it's a light lift. None of us are selling anything but hey matter of fact we're going to do a tour and just like we're going to call it the make a difference tour.

And we're just going to you pick the cities you want to be in. If you want to come great but we just we kind of just like great potluck of giving you know? know? know? Like I just had a little dream session with you in three minutes. I don't have that space right now. Cuz every day is planned for the next year and a half. I mean there's there's there's just with kids and sports and whatever it's like but I would hope that 10 years from now that I wouldn't be holding on to that rope so tightly and it's not like I need to do every single event but I'm running a business.

I have employees and the number one product is me getting on a stage. You know and it's just like okay well we get books and we can get workbooks and we do all of these other things and we can do courses and whatever but it's just like But that's not making the money like you on stage. on stage. on stage. No it's like and so it's like anytime I do get a speaking contract I'm always looking at the calendar I'm going, what else am I going to be doing on that day?

Golfing? You know it's like I like golf but it's like I actually could speak and go golfing go golfing go golfing the same day. Takes an hour. It's so and so I in the future I would love to and there's been times where I have been where I've had opportunities to work with organizations that I just want to work with work with work with that that that and I'd love to spend a few days with them. I don't have a few days I don't have that time.

Yeah I don't I don't have and so I I I would maybe when my kids graduate high school or and I have a a bit more margin in that in that space then space then space then Yeah. How old are they? Eight and 12 or 10? 10? 10? They are. They are. They are. Good question. Six and 11, about to be seven and 12. Okay, cool. So, you got, you know, seven six seven years yet until it starts to happen, so. Good questions to think about.

Very much so. so. so. I'd love to hear what everyone's answer is in the comments below. Yeah. The next 10 years, you know, is there a rope that you need to let go of to step into who you truly want to become? So, For sure. This has been powerful, man. I appreciate you showing up, Ryan, and sharing this wisdom. I've got a couple final questions for you. Before we get to it, I want to make sure people follow you, Ryan Leak Yeah. .com, Ryan Leak on social media as well.

Yeah. You got some great content on there, so if people want more Yeah. on how to navigate communication strategies, dealing with Yeah. complicated people, Yeah. you can get the book, How to Work With Complicated People, and all the other content that you have is on your website, ryanleak.com. ryanleak.com. ryanleak.com. They want to book you for speaking, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. they can go there as well. That's Check you out, man. This is a question I ask everyone at the end. It's called the three truths. three truths.

three truths. We've already gone 10 years in the future. Let's go to the end of life. Imagine you get to create and accomplish anything you want Yeah. for the rest of your life. Yeah. You had all that margin to do all the cool projects. Yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah. yeah. You gave 49 and 1/2% every year. All these things happened. Yeah. But for whatever reason, at the end of the day, you have to take all of your work with you. All your content, Sure. books, everything's gone.

everything's gone. everything's gone. But you get to leave behind three lessons to the world. Yeah. I call it the three truths. What would that be for you? The first truth is every single person that you and I know has an assignment from God. And until they get started on it, life will not make sense. And that could be a a song to sing, a book to write, a a movie to make, a podcast to record, a family to raise, a student to teach. It could be in the mundane.

It doesn't have to be a big dream, but I believe each and every person has been given a God assignment. There is a reason you are on this planet. planet. planet. And if you do not search for that God assignment, life will never make sense. That's first truth. That's one. Second truth is that I would leave with the planet, cuz I'm taking all my stuff with me anyways, okay? Like okay? Like okay? Like You can't get access to this con- this conversation's gone. conversation's gone. conversation's gone.

I would say contentment is true wealth. Contentment is true wealth. The reason I believe that is because if you ask somebody what would make them happy, their number would be more. More. More. More. More money. More houses. More more more more more. more more. more more. I know some people that got a lot, but they don't have enough. When you when your number is enough, you you move completely different. It And in fact, if you can find enough in your life anywhere, I would say you're the richest person I know.

Wow. So interesting you say that before you get to number three, there was a great interview from Jim Carrey, who I'm a big fan of, Yeah. a couple years ago where he said he was retiring from acting. And he was doing an interview promoting a movie, and he was like, and she was the journalist was like, "What are you going to do next?" He goes, "I think I'm done, you know. I think I'm retiring. I've done enough movies." Yeah. And she was like, "No, you can't retire.

Like, you're so good in this and this." And he goes, "I'm going to say something that no celebrity in Hollywood will ever admit." Mhm. And he said, "I've done enough. I have enough. I am enough." 100%. And you know, it's easy for saying him in his career. He's done all these things. Sure. But usually a lot of people when they're at the top, they feel like they need to keep going for more. And And And and I think it's just knowing what to say yes to Yeah.

because you want to, not because you feel like you need to have more or you don't have enough. Yeah. Right? Kind of like what you said, so. so. so. Oh, yeah, man. That that that enough thing will take you really far. That's when peace enters the chat. Oh, yeah. Oh, there's there is no better feeling than enough. It doesn't create complacency where you say, "I'm not going to do anymore." It's like, I just get to do it now. I don't have to do it. Yeah. When you have inner peace, that is Oh my gosh.

true abundance. Oh my gosh. Yeah, if you you want to be rich, get enough. enough. enough. Get enough. That's good. Get enough. The third truth. third truth. third truth. Third truth. Third truth. Third truth. If you want to live like no one lives, give like no one gives. If you want to live like no one lives, give like no one gives. What I love about what my wife and I get to do with our two boys is we we we don't think about generational wealth. We think about generational giving.

generational giving. generational giving. Interesting. The DAF that I was telling you about earlier, our kids will inherit a lot of money that they have to give away. Mhm. That's how it works. I don't know if my kids will uh drive a BMW. They might. They can if they want to. That's up to them. I don't know what size house they'll have. I don't know where they'll live in the world. I don't know what they're going to do with their life, but they they they'll be givers.

We did an exercise uh over the end of the other day. I said, "Hey, if if I gave you a hundred thousand dollars right now, what would you do with it?" My first son, he says, "Well, "Well, "Well, I'd give 20 grand to God." I said, "Really?" It's amazing. And then he said, "And then I'd save another 20 grand." I go, "Wow, that's great." I said, "So, you got 60 grand left. What are you going to do with the rest of the 60?" He said, "I'll probably buy Pokémon cards." I went, "Okay.

"Okay. "Okay. Now we're on track. Now now now we're back at kid." Sounds right. Yeah. And second kid goes, I go, "Okay, you get a hundred grand. What do you do?" He goes, "I'd give 40 grand to God." Competition, you know? He's like, "The ego. I'm going to give more." They like this. I I like I like that this is our house. And And And it's better to give than receive. And that that just it's not about the money. It's about that spirit of generosity. You can feel it.

You can feel a taker coming a mile away. But when you're in the presence of a giver, you breathe you breathe a whole lot deeper. You breathe a whole lot easier. There isn't this what's up the sleeve, what's the agenda. It's like, "I'm here to give. I'm here to add value. I don't I don't I don't got any tricks up my sleeve." And so, yeah, I think if if you if you give like nobody gives, then you'll live like nobody lives. Final question, Ryan. Yes. What is your definition of greatness?

My definition of greatness is when you can truly discover your potential, your strengths, your strengths, your strengths, your influence, and leverage all of that to serve other people. people. people. Like, when you figure out, "I am really great at this thing. This is what God put me on the planet to do." And I have locked in on that, and I am unlocking my potential, but I'm doing all of that to help somebody else. Yeah. Like, to me, that is that's the definition of greatness. My man.

Thanks for being here. Appreciate you, man. Powerful, brother. Thanks, man. Thank you. And success is kind about me. You know, it's kind of like what I've done, you know. So, you like, you know, I've sold 35 million books, 88 books written, you know, done that, spoken in a hundred countries, spoken 13,000 spoken 13,000 spoken 13,000 times. I go, "Okay, got it." It's about me. But significance But significance is about others.