The Easiest Way to Actually Heal From a Breakup

Key Takeaway

When breakup thoughts pull you toward an ex, identify the feeling you are chasing—being seen, desired, safe, or connected—rather than treating that person as the only source of it. Today, choose one replacement source: call a friend, join a community activity, plan a nourishing solo evening, or write yourself the reassurance you want from them. Healing accelerates when you rebuild the feeling through your own life instead of reopening a connection that hurts you.

Episode Overview

This episode explores why breakups linger: people often grieve the identity, future, comfort, and emotional state they associated with a relationship—not only the person. The conversation reframes healing as non-linear self-reconnection, urges listeners to judge relationships by sustained relational effort rather than early charm, and offers rituals for expressing and releasing unspoken pain.

Full Transcript

Transcript of The Easiest Way to Actually Heal From a Breakup from On Purpose. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

Healing begins when you focus on the feeling, not the person. And you focus on how to give yourself that feeling without that person. How can you create that emotion and experience you deserve on your own without that person? That you can find that connection with yourself and others without that person. When you believe that a person is more powerful than an experience or an emotion, you will never be able to let them go. But this is what you really miss. You don't miss them. You miss who you thought you'd be by his side.

It's one of the hardest truths to face: you can love someone deeply, lose them, and still feel stuck long after the story is over. You tell yourself, "I should be over this by now." But the memories keep surfacing. The song, the scent, the old photo, and suddenly you're back there. This is the truth about breakups. We don't become addicted to people, we become addicted to how we felt with them. How we felt desired, seen, and chosen. And now that they're gone, your brain chases that feeling, not the person.

It's fascinating that we think we want to get the person back, but in reality we want to get the feeling back. And that's why it's so important to look for something else that gives you that feeling for yourself, through your friends, your community, or connection. Because that feeling is something that should belong to you. The ending is realizing that you may never receive an apology, but you no longer expect one. The conclusion is accepting that some chapters end without explanations, and that is still an ending.

The conclusion is choosing peace over answers. It's when you stop trying to understand why it happened and start focusing on what it taught you. Recovering from a breakup is taking three steps forward and two steps back. It's feeling like you're healing and then crying like it's the first day all over again. It is experiencing growth and then feeling grief. Healing is not linear. You might feel strong for weeks, and then suddenly you see their name and everything comes rushing back. That doesn't mean you're broken .

It means you're human. We write these things like this, and we know that when we think about losing someone, we look at all those things and say, "I couldn't lose them, you know ?" They're fun and charismatic, and it's super fun to be with them, they're attractive, they play guitar and can, you know, speak three languages, and it's still an Instagram profile version of a person. And someone told me recently: "I'm in a relationship with a guy, he plays guitar and I find him very sexy, he's very handsome and he's...".

And I tell him, "To be in a relationship with you, he doesn't need to be good at music." He needs to be good in the relationship. Yes. And if you want to hear someone play the guitar well, go to a John Mayer concert. I would applaud, in a way. You do n't need that every day in your relationship. Yes. What's important in a relationship is someone who is truly competent in it and who has those skills. And those skills are earned through effort. I have truly come to believe that my view of love has changed to the point that, first, I think about the idea of ​​whether it is about finding the right person or whether it is the right time.

And I've started to lean much more towards time. Oh. When you decide it's the right time to get to know someone for real, you enter into love with a completely different intention. Love doesn't just happen to you. It's not that wave that sweeps you away , which is super easy. When a wave sweeps you away, you just stay there and enjoy how wonderful it feels to experience that kind of drug. But that's not the same as doing it intentionally. There is a difference between winning the lottery and starting a business.

Mhm. You know, when you start a business, there's a method, there's a pragmatism to it. The things you need to do to build this. And I think that, for me, I haven't developed a less romantic vision. In fact, if anything, I find it increasingly romantic to see someone who is in a position where they are willing to do the work of a relationship. One of the biggest problems is people who fall in love very quickly. Yes. Falling in love too soon. Because they had a couple of great dates with a guy.

And they can look back at the date and say that he was amazing, and that you should have seen what he did and how he behaved on the date and all that. And what I always have to analyze is that maybe that wasn't about you. Mhm. It's something he wanted you to feel. Mhm. at the end of the appointment. Mhm. It's not that, you know, I, I kind of detest this culture we have now where everyone is a narcissist. And we rush so much to label.

He is a narcissist. She is a narcissist. It's like, not everyone...we all have a narcissistic trait. And we all exhibit narcissistic behaviors sometimes. That doesn't mean we are diagnosable narcissists. But one narcissistic trait that we all have at the beginning of dating, and to varying degrees, is the desire to impress rather than connect. So we go on a date with someone and, you know, at the peak, if someone is really on top of things, it will give the other person the best date of their life.

And that person leaves thinking that this guy is amazing, or this person, and maybe they've arranged an amazing date, but you still don't know anything. And the great thing about your wife, you know, going through that process with her, I imagine for her it's almost like: " Well, I want to see how you are in the fourth week." Yes. Or I want to see what you're like in the third month. Yes. Or until you get there, you do n't really know how good a partner someone is going to be.

Yes. And that's what I meant when you asked me what I've really learned about love and I talked about valuing the wrong things. That is one of the main ways in which it manifests itself . If you get incredibly nervous on a date, Mhm. It is already a reflection of the fact that you have valued the wrong things. Because you value this person's appearance, their status, or what you perceive them to be, but you're not valuing them in a relationship. Mhm. or in relation to you, which is defined by how much they give, how they connect with you, how they relate to you, and how they see you.

Yes. All of that is completely, it's a zero. Yes. The person who is still great in the eighth week is showing you the right things. But if they suddenly disappear in week nine, it doesn't mean they were great in week 16. Yes, yes, yes, yes. You say, "Oh, but they were the right person and I don't know, I need closure." You already have the closure. Mhm. That action was the closing. What they showed you is that they had eight good weeks in them. Yes. That's interesting.

Yes, that's interesting. It is, it is, and it's the same as you would say in sports. It's like you were saying, "I was thinking about sports while you were saying that," and it's the idea that a player can have a good season in and of itself. Mhm. And then that player could have had ten good seasons. And sometimes we have these players about whom we say, "Oh, she's going to be next" or "he's going to be next ." And suddenly, they don't give you that season.

And in sports, we get closure by saying: well, they had potential but they didn't make it. But you're right, in love and life it's much harder to have that mentality of 'I got eight good weeks, but it didn't work out.' Well, and you sit there and obsess over someone who dumped you, obsessing over what you could have been. Yes. That's what it is. You know, this was so promising. They were everything I was looking for. This could have been it. And every time someone breaks up with us, you know, the heartbreak is the loss of the life we thought we were going to have.

Mhm. with someone. This is what could have been. This is what it should have been. Yes. And my answer to that is that it would have been. Mhm. If it should have been and could have been. Yes. Then it would have been. You are literally suffering over something that didn't happen; By definition, it was not meant to happen because it didn't happen. Yes. Yes. Yes. It did n't happen. So this idea that it was supposed to be, or should have been, is a myth, it's a fantasy.

It's science fiction. Yes. But I feel that in relationships, we have this imaginative mind that has already written the script, the book, and the trilogy before the second date is over. And then, it seems to be the only area of ​​our lives where we write decades into the future, and we can't help it because we almost think that...and it's like you're living, what you're saying is that you live in fantasy, not even in the reality that's right in front of you. And so, even when you 're on a date with them, you're not even there because you're in your fantasy world.

And what you think it is. There's a story about Bukowski where he slept with a prostitute. Every romantic story begins this way. He slept with a prostitute and woke up to discover that she had stolen his poetry. And he was so upset , so angry. Yes. And he wrote about it. And he wrote a piece about how you could take anything with you. Take my money, take the other things that were in the apartment. Take everything, but please, everything except my poetry. And the whole piece ends with the phrase: "And then God said, crossing his legs: I see that I have created many poets, but not so much poetry." Wow.

And the idea is that, you know, the person who has potential in a relationship is the poet. Mjm. The poet. Everyone is a poet. Mjm. There are n't many people writing poetry. Yes. Writing is the hardest part. There are many people who are great on a date, very romantic, very charming . They are poets on a date. Mjm. Poetry is the relationship. Mjm. And you shouldn't, you know, Bukowski was upset because his poetry was stolen, the thing he had worked on. And that's how it should be in a relationship: don't be upset because you lost a poet.

Poets abound . Poetry is rare. Mjm. People willing to write the poetry of a relationship, people willing to stay with you for a year, two years, five years, ten years, that's really rare. And we need to start valuing poetry much more than we value the poet. I always observe the ways in which people argue and whether they are trying to cause harm in an argument or whether they are trying to build something up in it. And if you're with someone who, every time you leave an argument, makes you feel hurt.

And you end up bleeding in every argument. You know, and you wonder: why did he have to say that incredibly nasty thing? It's one thing if they come back an hour later, or even a day later, and say, "I'm deeply sorry I said that to you and I'll do better." But if they don't even recognize that that was a very toxic way to argue and that it was a really unpleasant thing to say, then that's a problem. Mitch Albom wrote a phrase about how, if the culture doesn't serve you, then you must be brave enough to create your own culture.

Mjm. And as for dating for so many people , you know, I get all the complaints about dating these days. You know, it 's superficial, everyone's casual, nobody goes on real dates, nobody makes an effort, nobody really commits, nobody wants a serious relationship. It's like, well, what you're describing is what you perceive as a culture that isn't working for you. Yes. But if that culture doesn't work for you, then create your own culture around yourself . Mhm. And your culture can be powerful. Not necessarily for the world, because that requires a collective cultural change .

But in your micro-life, in your micro-problems and opportunities, the culture you create will have an impact on the people around you. Yes. And in the same way, you know, I said that if you're going to a party and you say, "I hope this party is good." Well, now you're a victim of how this party turns out. You know, if everyone seems closed off and unfriendly, and you know, there are little cliques and it's like, "Oh, God." Then you go home and say, "Oh my God, that party was so, you know , it was one of those horrible parties." But if you go in and say, "I'm going to be at least responsible for a part of this party." Yes.

Yes. " I'm going to come in and give the love and energy and compassion and authenticity that I would love for the people in this room to join me in giving." Some will, others won't. And by the way, that's also good because it will help you find your people, right? So, you find your people by being what you want to be, not by waiting for your people to provoke it in you. Completely. You found your people online by going out and being the energy you wanted to be first.

And then those people noticed you. It's like a lighthouse. Then the ships start to know where to return home because they see the, you know, they see the lighthouse. That, for me, is one of the most beautiful things about giving energy from the beginning. I see dating, you know, not just relationships , but I see people on dates these days, the game is who can put in the least effort. Who can be cooler? Who can be more indifferent? And honestly, that's not the way to do it.

That is certainly the way to attract someone of a lower frequency. That. TRUE? You can certainly attract someone who wants the game, who wants it , who has those demons that make them pursue someone who isn't interested in them. Yes. You know, and there are a lot of people with those demons, but you don't want to be in a relationship with someone like that, because without a doubt, the moment you stop playing hard to get and turn around to face them, they'll no longer be interested in you, because their demons will tell them, "We already like this person." Not anymore , we no longer think this person is great.

Yes. We only thought they were cool while they didn't like us . So you can never ... It's so complicated. Yes, but it's, you know, that Groucho Marx thing. I would not want to be a member of any club that would accept me as a member. Yes. That describes the insecurity in dating between people like that, meaning: " That person doesn't love me, they must be a great catch." Give an amount of energy that you are willing to lose. I always think about that in every interaction.

That's very true, yes. Give an amount you don't mind losing. Yes. It's like going into a casino and playing roulette. It's like, okay, I'm in Vegas. I'm going to give about a hundred dollars and then I won't spend anything else here in these casinos. That's all. You know, for me it's usually like ten dollars because I'm not a gambler, but you just decide: what am I willing to lose? And it's the same with energy. It's, you know, I'm seeing someone right now. I want to find someone amazing, someone beautiful.

I'm going to give each person I interact with an amount of energy that I don't mind losing. Mhm. And some people I'm going to, I'm going to attract those who are now willing to give it back, because suddenly, they might come out of that little coma they've been in because they're disillusioned with dating and feel that nobody is making an effort, and that's why they shut themselves up in their shell. But now they see you with a different level of warmth, joy, and simply positivity, and they say, "Huh?

Who is this person?" This makes me feel good. And then they come out of their shell a little and suddenly you see who they are. You wake them up a little, and then there are a lot of people who don't, and that's okay because you were willing to lose that amount of energy. Yes. But what people do instead is something much more dangerous: they are afraid of rejection from the people they approach or talk to in the first 5 minutes. God forbid I get rejected in the first 5 minutes.

But then they meet someone with whom they have a little connection and chemistry, but who doesn't put in the effort, who does n't give them the same energy, and they will continue to invest energy in that person month after month without receiving the same in return. Yes. And they think that's safer than going out there and being rejected by a new person. Yes. But that's precisely what's dangerous. Yes. Being rejected in 5 minutes by someone who doesn't even know you, on an app—how ​​much can someone really reject you anyway?

And we all know our experience. We have all chosen people in life that we would have passed over on an app. Absolutely. TRUE? So we know from our own personal experience that if we are rejected on an app, it doesn't even mean that the person wouldn't like us in real life. Completely. TRUE? But we are so afraid of that rejection. That rejection is a deadly fear . And yet, continuing to waste months or years with someone who gives us uneven energy? Yes, that's something people happily do.

They spend that time as if it were nothing. And that's what truly feels safe. Because it feels like there's at least something there. If someone has remained in an unhappy situation for a long time , it must mean that it is incredibly difficult for them internally to make peace with the idea of ​​leaving. And what is happening , of course, is that at this moment when it is obvious to all of his friends and family that they should leave and never look back, his abandonment problem that has been present all his life is screaming at them.

Yes. Screaming. Using any tactic possible to make them stay. And when they were in the relationship, the tactic they perhaps used was to go into compliance mode, and even though this person isn't treating me well, I'm going to do everything I can to make them happy, make every concession, every sacrifice, bend over backwards, subjugate my own needs to try to serve you. All in order to be able to support you. Yes. And then, at the point where you become so unhappy and you say, "Oh my God, this person is terrible." I've had to lose myself in this relationship to make them happy.

"I'm going to leave." Just as you're about to leave, just as your friends say, "Thank God. They did it." Yes. They left. You get home that night and that demon of abandonment realizes that it must use a different tactic . So she says, "Maybe they weren't so bad. Maybe we're asking for too much. Maybe, you know, they did have great qualities, right? Like , they were loyal and they were lovely people most of the time, and this and that, and that voice starts using another tactic with you because all that voice wants is to not leave you.

Yes. And it will do everything in its power to achieve that goal. It will ruin your life to achieve that goal, because it only has one objective, and that objective is not to make you happy. The objective is to make sure you don't get abandoned. What has been the most difficult obstacle you think you've had to face? I think loneliness. It's strange how I assume that some people, you know, who see me and see everything I've accomplished and all the people who listen to my music and follow me, would think that's something I wouldn't struggle with; but somehow it makes me feel more alone.

When I'm on tour, Rosé and I perform in front of thousands of people, and, um, I come offstage and go back alone to a room of Hotel. There's nothing that can explain how empty and lonely that feels, you know? Being in front of so many people who love you and connect with you through music, and then just coming back with absolutely no one, you know, no one to talk to about it. Yeah, it's sad, and I deal with things on a daily basis, you know, all the time.

And sometimes I don't have the people I can just, you know, call, like my mom, you know. I can't just have my mom come over here and she can, you know, tell me that everything's going to be okay. And yeah, it's scary, and I feel like I've always been very mature for my age , but since I've been here, I've matured a lot from having to deal with certain things in the industry. But still, at the same time, I feel like I'm still a kid at heart, you know, I'm only about to turn 21 , which is crazy to think about.

But I don't know, I feel like loneliness is something I struggle with. Um, and it's really hard, especially in LA and Hollywood and in the industry, to find to the right people who you can really trust and count on. I feel lucky enough to say I've probably found four, you know, in all the time I've been here, but you never know what people's intentions are, and not everyone has the same heart as you, which I feel like I struggle with as well. What have you found to be the hardest stage of a breakup for you personally?

Or like, what stage do you find the most challenging? I feel like they're all really hard, but I feel like the one I call the desperate stage. Um, and I just made a video about that, because I have this song called "Motel [ __ ]," and I was like, this represents the desperate stage of a breakup. And it's kind of like that bargaining stage where you're just trying to do everything you can to get that person back into your life, no matter the cost, no matter what.

So, yeah, it's when you break up with them, and then you're at the point where you just want them back in your life, that you 're willing to do anything to Keeping them in your life somehow, even though it hurts, because you know the way you want them in your life is the way you had them before in that relationship. But now it's not like that , and you end up hurting yourself more because you're, you know, putting yourself back in that place, but also knowing you're going to end up heartbroken again.

Because it 's so much harder when you try to be with that person, whether it's as friends or just being intimate or anything like that, when you still feel real love and connection. But it's like when you try to convince yourself, like, "Oh, this will make them come back." Like our relationship is going to be the way it was before." But it doesn't happen, and then it crushes you even more. Um, I feel like that's the hardest stage, when you become so desperate for any little bit of attention you can get from that person.

Um, because it ends up breaking your heart even more, you know? You didn't. You could skip that stage and, you know, fully move forward on the healing path like you should; but I feel like that's the one stage where we stumble on the ladder and go, "Oh God, yeah, we made it harder for ourselves." What stage do you think you spend the most time in when you break up with someone, where you feel like you lose so much energy feeling lost in that phase? Trying to recover from the codependency part.

Because, well, when you're in a relationship, I know I become very codependent on someone, you know? It's that person you've always had, you know? There's something you go through, like having that one person you can talk to, that you You can cry. They're always there for you. They become your comfort, you know? It's your safe place. And then, when the relationship ends, it's like you do n't have that anymore. You're left alone. I feel like that was the stage that took me the longest to get through because I was so used to being codependent on someone and, you know, having that comfort.

When it all disappears, whenever I faced something difficult, whenever I was upset, whenever I felt lonely, I couldn't help but want and crave that person because I was used to having them in those moments . And trying to escape codependency and learning to love yourself, enjoy your own company, and, well, even accept the fact that you can be that person for yourself, you know? And that you don't need anyone. I feel like that's the longest process, 100%. In therapy, I realized that's not going to change unless you love yourself.

I feel like loving yourself is the most important thing, it's the main thing. And I feel like everyone neglects that. A little bit, because it seems unnecessary, but we overlook it because we are who we are and we give love to everyone around us because, well, that's life, you know? But I feel like a lot of times we forget to look inward, and the only way to give things to others is if you already have them inside you . And when I realized that, even if I want to be in a relationship and I want someone and I want to be in love, I'm probably not able to love someone the way I should because I can't even love myself, and right now I do n't.

So yeah, I feel like as soon as you work on that self-love, that's when things start to get easier, because you also get out of that mindset where you feel like you don't really need anyone, you know? And you can be okay with not having to search and not constantly thinking about wanting a relationship or finding that person, and you can have nights alone without having to cry about it or wishing there was someone with you. But yeah, I feel like self-love is the key. When I think about it, I say, "Well, I've been able to "Doing things I did that I never thought I could, and that's something I should be proud of." The things I've been through that I never thought I could pull through, and my own strength.

That's something I should love myself for and have compassion for myself. Even the fact that, at the end of the day, no matter what I've been through, and no matter how badly I've been treated, the fact that I'm still a good person and have a good heart is something I know better than anyone. That's why I should love myself, you know? I feel like they're little things, and I think it's really important to sit down and really analyze yourself, and take the time to understand yourself, something I feel like I've only just learned how to do, but it's really nice.

You do a burn box on stage. Mhm. Where you have fans write messages. Mhm. And then you burn them. Mhm. That's so cool. I love that. It's the most amazing thing I've ever heard. I was like, "You have to do that at my next show." Where did that come from? That ritual? Tell me about it. Did you used to do it yourself? Was it something you invented for the community? I mean, tell me where that came from because I love it. When I saw it, I thought, "This is amazing." Thank you.

Well, the thing about my music is that it's very deep and meaningful. I talk a lot about mental health, and I know that a lot of people who come to my shows are there because they've had problems and they really relate to my songs, you know ? It's not just that; I never want my shows and my tour to be just a performance where I simply play their favorite songs. I want it to be, like, not a therapy session, but a healing moment for everyone, a moment of connection, something really authentic that will stay with them—not just the music, but what they felt while listening to it.

And I also wanted to do something interactive, helpful, and that would help with healing in the same way. I thought doing a burn box might be cool. And it was also the simplest thing we could implement in the show at that time. But what's better than doing something interactive on stage than asking my fans to Write down on a piece of paper what you struggle with, what you want to let go of, release, what you no longer want to hold onto, write it anonymously, put it in this box, and watch it burn on stage?

I feel like there's something very powerful about that. And I'm so glad I did it because, for most people, it was their favorite part of the whole show. And it's helped so many people. I've even seen people in the audience cry as I burn it , and that's what makes my day and what motivates me to keep performing and doing what I do, because that's the reason I do it. And it 's so pure, uh, and moving, just to see how something like that, you know, that I thought might be kind of funny, could actually affect them on such a deep level.

Uh, but yeah. When I was 16, my dad and I went through a real separation. He didn't want to be a part of my life anymore, and that was a huge turning point for me because I had to figure out what that meant. And, for a long time, that fueled my way of Work, because you end up working to prove to someone that you're worthy of being loved, cared for, or desired. And that was a big time for me, overall. And I think those were, in a way, formative years.

I think I was 16 when it happened. So it really was a turning point and a pivotal moment in my growth. And it took time to get past that stage, to forgive, to let go, and to be able to do things not for that purpose, but for myself. I had to reflect and work hard to change that habit, but I'm glad I did , because no, that doesn't sustain you. It can only last so long, and it means that the work you're doing , even if it's unintentional, is coming from the wrong place.

And for a while, it worked, but then it stopped . If you're at home watching this and thinking, "Oh, but I've been doing this, and I know it's not sustainable, but how do I stop ?" "Well, take your time. It will come. And if that's what fuels you now, if that's what gets you out of bed and gives you the energy to keep going, then keep using it. And when you realize, ' Oh, actually, maybe I'll do it today because I want to make someone happy,' that's love too, in a big way.

So it's just about making small choices, shifting your mindset little by little, and not being so hard on yourself for choosing other things to encourage yourself to move forward and make things right. If you haven't hurt anyone by using the pain you've been through, the hurt you 've suffered, the rejection you've experienced, the shame you've felt, and you've managed to transmute all of that into energy that makes you create positive work, well, then you 've done something very good, because you've technically given all those people, all those things, energy in the most positive way.

When I ended things with someone, when it was my decision to end things, I saw very clearly that we weren't growing together anymore, that we weren't the one anymore." for the other person, and that being together would actually be detrimental to both of us . If I'm in something that makes me miserable, that I'm not happy in, then chances are that will grow within the relationship. That I'm going to continue to be miserable, and that person is also going to experience the most miserable version of myself.

And that's not good for anyone, because I'm not fertile ground for happiness if I'm doing that. Which means it also removes the other person's ability to be in a happy relationship. And I would rather withdraw from the situation so they can move on and find whoever they're meant to be with, because we will find the people we're meant to be with. And maybe we're meant to be with someone for a season, and then we move on and find the person we're meant to be with for life.

Or maybe we're meant to be with several people for a season, and that's what we're meant to do. Or we're meant to learn from the people we're with to become the people we're meant to be before we end up in the relationship we're meant to be in. To be. And I just knew I couldn't keep pretending to be something I wasn't in a relationship that wasn't feeding me the way I needed. And because of that, I knew I was n't going to be feeding the other person either.

I think if you can have your conversation, have a conversation and try to end it as amicably as possible. And if you can't, I know it sounds really weird, but have the conversation , just not with that person. I mean, what would that conversation look like in your head? How would you have had that conversation? What would you have said if you had the opportunity to sit across from someone and say, " Hey, this really hurt my feelings"? And that's how I feel right now; I'm finding it really hard to cope.

My heart is broken, and I need to heal, to have those conversations and put my feelings into words. What you can't do is hold onto it, swallow the feeling, and never let it out, because I think it grows and becomes something else. A heartbreak that is n't shared, a heartbreak that isn't exorcised, I think It turns into resentment and bitterness, you know? Because heartbreak is a real emotion. In fact, it's a strange emotion, but quite lovely and beautiful. It means you're alive. If you have a heart that can be broken, it means your heart is beating.

So it's not a bad emotion. However, if you hold onto it and never let go, if you don't share it, the way you share love, happiness, and joy, then it becomes something else. We don't keep joy to ourselves. We can't. It's impossible to do that. It flows out of us, whether we want it to or not. We don't keep love to ourselves. We want to give love. We want to share love because that only multiplies it. Paternal trauma has emasculated all my common sense. So I look through the lens of impending abandonment.

All the voices in my head say I'm not worth the time you spent on me. So I look for an escape before you notice your mistake. And, I mean, it's just beautiful even reading it on paper. I mean, the part that grabbed my attention the most was: "So I look through the lens of impending abandonment. I thought that comes back to what you just said. People feel that. People really do feel abandoned. By themselves, too. It's also about feeling abandoned and carrying that into everything you do.

And so, even now, sometimes I expect people to leave. That's why, in the way I move and work, I do n't trust people quickly. I expect them to leave. It's like, if I can prepare myself knowing that I'm going to be abandoned, then it won't hurt when it happens. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Yeah. What I've had to do over time is start to trust people and not judge everything by the same yardstick of abandonment. If someone has to leave, they have to leave. That's okay. It's not abandonment; they're just leaving.

You know? And that's not to say that the experience of feeling abandoned isn't real, but it also means that that experience of abandonment isn't always what happens. And for a long time, I couldn't tell the difference. So, every time When a friend left, or broke up with someone, or a relationship didn't work out, it felt like a huge moment of abandonment. It felt like the ground had been pulled out from under my feet . And it's taken me a long time to get to the point where I can trust that's not the case.

So, what I would do was stop saying how I really felt in a situation because I didn't want them to leave. Yeah, wow. You know, if I wasn't happy about something, I would n't say so. Because I didn't want to give them a reason to leave. Mhm. You know? Or if I didn't want something, I wouldn't say I didn't want it because I was afraid they'd leave , you know? And unfortunately, that sometimes leads to really dangerous situations because you do n't speak up. The main destroyer of marriage is disconnection.

I think we fall in love incredibly fast. And we stop loving and fall into those big marriage destroyers much more slowly, or really the way people go bankrupt: very slowly and then all at once . And by the time you've fallen off that cliff, I think It might be too late to do anything about it, which is why I strongly support the idea of ​​preventative maintenance and not getting to that point. But I think the disconnection from your partner, from yourself, from your true self... I've represented people in court for 25 years in divorces, and I think the most dangerous lies are the ones we tell ourselves.

About what makes us happy, what doesn't, what's important to us and what isn't, how we've changed and how we're still the same, how our partner has changed and how we feel about it. We lie to ourselves about these things so we can navigate a comfortable day-to-day reality, but in the long run, I think it's very, very dangerous. So I would say it's the disconnection from yourself and from your partner. I would also say that the biggest destroyer of marriage is that we stop seeing our partner.

And we stop making them feel seen. Because I think we become blind to the things we see most often. You know, it wasn't a fish to discover water, you know, like I have a couch that I've had, I think, probably For 20 years. I couldn't tell you what color it is. Because I sit on it every day at some point. But I've become blind to it because it's just there. It's the couch. It's always there. When you're going to get a divorce, that's the point. It's like, when you're going to get a divorce, I usually have a halo, they have horns.

Yeah, of course. Yeah. We go after it, you know? Yeah, yeah, of course. Of course. Because you want to have someone on your side. And then you, yeah, I have something similar, I mean, I coach people and couples and I work with people, and like you said, people lie to their therapist, their coaches in that area , and that's for sure. Because someone will come to me and tell me they got their heart broken, and then, over time, they'll send me emails that the other person sent them, and the emails seem really thoughtful, thorough, and very, emotionally intelligent and articulate, and you're like, "Wait a minute, like, what happened?" " I was told this person was the devil.

Yes. And now I'm reading their emails because you had to share them with me for some context. That's why I said I think the most dangerous lies are the ones you tell yourself. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And you need them to survive. Sometimes you don't even know you're lying. Like, you just, you know, you're so caught up in your view of things, and we hold onto that so tightly, you know, because. Again, I feel like if, if, if we can acknowledge that we're a mystery to ourselves, you know, that, that, that feels powerless and scary.

I mean, a lot of what we do wrong, we do for a sense of control. Yes. And we don't really have it. Yes, yes. I think that might be the secret, like learning to find, you know, there's a maxim, um, that if you don't learn to find joy in the snow, you'll have less joy in your life with the exact same amount of snow. Yes. I would also commit or promise to listen to the things we tell ourselves as if came from a place of love and connection.

You know, even when we say something the other person might not want to hear, we do it out of a desire to protect the bond. Hmm. So I would say it's a very valuable and worthy pursuit to say, "Look, we've decided we want this particular relationship configuration ." You know, love is a loan. It's not a permanent gift. Hmm. And so, if we want to protect it and preserve it, I think we need to tell ourselves that we have to have this unwavering ability to "send the message" now.

Like, to tell the person, "Hey, this is small stuff, and I never want it to become something big." But you also have to be willing to hear that as something that doesn't come from a "You're doing it wrong." Hmm. But from a place of "I want this to continue to be wonderful." By the time people come to my office, they've traveled that road so far that I think it's quite difficult to find their way back. That's true. So I think when you've gotten to the point in a relationship where you've made good-faith efforts to identify and address the distance, and that It's been completely fruitless.

And the other person isn't committed, maybe not to the same level of commitment as you . But they're not committed at all. Because identifying that there's a problem is the first step. So, if the other person says no, that there's no problem. I think there comes a point where, again, sometimes " happily ever after" means happy apart. And I believe in divorce. It's not that... well, sure, as a divorce lawyer I have a vested interest in saying that, but even in my own life, I got divorced 20 years ago.

And my ex-wife is very dear to me. She's still a great friend. She remarried 15 years ago very successfully, much longer than we were married, to a wonderful guy. I just spent a lot of time with them at my son's wedding, and we laughed a lot and shared a lot of time and space together for these two boys whom we both love so much. And I think that was an example of, you know, when my ex-wife and Twenty years ago, we decided we were going to get a divorce.

We had a very difficult and honest conversation at the kitchen table, and our children were, I think, three and four, or three and five years old at the time. And, uh, we loved them more than anything. And I remember her saying this to me after we had such a difficult and tearful conversation. We were both very honest about how deeply unsatisfied we felt and how much we loved each other, but that there are a lot of people you love that maybe you shouldn't be married to.

And I remember her saying, "If sheer willpower could make two people love each other , we would love each other forever." I remember thinking that was so honest and so true—that sometimes love, just the feeling of love, isn't enough to sustain this particular kind of connection that two people can have. If this clip provided you with value and you'd like to see more, this next video has been specially chosen for you based on your viewing behavior. I hope you enjoy it , and if so, Subscribe to the channel so we can continue bringing you fantastic conversations.

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