The Biggest Lie About Focus (Why You Shouldn’t Do Just One Thing)

Key Takeaway

Stop looking for mentors—let them find you. Build genuine relationships and demonstrate your unique value. The most powerful mentoring happens when someone sees potential in you before you see it in yourself. Meanwhile, become a connector: introduce people who can help each other. This simple act builds your network faster than any business card ever could.

Episode Overview

Angela Ahrendts, founder of A-Series Investments and former manager of Priyanka Chopra Jonas, shares her unconventional journey from being bullied in England to becoming a cultural powerhouse in Silicon Valley. She discusses the power of networking through connection, why mentors pick you (not the other way around), and how listening more than speaking helped her identify game-changing investments like ClassPass.

Full Transcript

Transcript of The Biggest Lie About Focus (Why You Shouldn’t Do Just One Thing) from On Purpose. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

This old rhetoric of you got to do one thing and you got to have one goal and you got to be focused on it. That's the biggest lie ever. What's a business skill everyone should master if they want to be successful? You have to read the room. You have to see what's going on around you. The biggest issue that I see young people in business, they think everything is one way. way. way. It's not a one-way conversation ever. Hi everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become a happier, healthier, and more healed.

Today's guest on On Purpose is the one and only Angela Ahrendts. Trailblazing entrepreneur, investor, and cultural powerhouse who's helped shape global careers and billion-dollar brands. Angela is the founder of A-Series Investments, an early investor in companies like Bumble and ClassPass, and a long-time manager of Priyanka Chopra Jonas. And behind all of this, she is a dear, dear friend who I'm so grateful to welcome onto the show. Please welcome to On Purpose, Angela Ahrendts. And it is so great to have you here. Oh my god, it's so good to be here.

We met for the first time around 8 years ago when I first moved to LA actually. And one of the people that you've mentored and your dear friend and now my dear friend as well, we met through her. And honestly, the amount you've done for founders, for female founders, for artists, for our community, for the South Asians all over the world and beyond that is amazing. And we're so grateful to you. And I know so many people who whenever your name comes up and it's like, "Oh yeah, she helped me with this." And oh, she helped me with this.

And I'm always discovering new people you've helped with stuff. And so I just want to say, you know, from me and on behalf of all of our friends, just how grateful we are to you. And you totally deserve to be here and I'm grateful and happy that you're here. Oh my god, thank you. Well, I mean, I just want to tell this quick story that when I first met you, I was super skeptical. skeptical. skeptical. And then you did something so dramatic in my life without me even knowing it, which was my sister who, rest in peace, died a few years ago, struggled through multiple sclerosis and then died of cancer.

She never got to talk to you and I really wish you'd had and that's my one regret that we never got to FaceTime with you. But she literally told me that she wouldn't have made it through those 2 years of her life without you. And that was just so incredible. And it seemed so insane to me because I knew you and I was like, "Oh my god, this guy's had so much impact on one of the people so dear to me." And she was doing this so quietly.

Like she was listening to you every single day just to get through life. through life. through life. And yeah, anyway. So, you have had such a big impact in our family's life. And I will always honor that. Oh, I wish I got to speak to her too. I know. I really do and I, you know, I feel so humbled by statements like that because that because that because she was fighting a much tougher fight than anything I've been in myself. And so I always feel very humbled that she's the one who did the real work.

Like she was the one who's doing the real fighting. And thank you for sharing that with me always. And yeah, my my love and prayers and meditation for her and your family right now as well. But I wanted to dive in because you have such a fascinating story and one of the things I like to do on On Purpose is to really understand how people became who they became because I think people hear the resume, they see you, they see the success, and you just assume that people just always had it and knew what was going to happen.

And then when you peel behind the scenes, you realize it wasn't like that at all. I wanted to start by asking you, what's a childhood memory that stands out to you that you would say defines who you are today? You know, I think defines my entire journey and everything. And you're going to know this cuz you went you went to school in England and around the same time as me. I think I'm going to show my age a bit. But you remember that TV show Grange Hill?

Of course. Right. Yeah, of course. If you're British, everybody knew Grange Hill. Yes. So, there was this TV show Grange Hill and I would always get bullied at school for being the [ __ ] And me and my brother and sister grew up in a completely white environment. We didn't grow up in London or anywhere like that. We were in Buckinghamshire. Um so, I was always bullied for being a [ __ ] I mean, like literally spat on, kicked, punched, like you name it. Went through it all. And but what I noticed was there was this TV show Grange Hill and I everyone watched it.

Everyone watched the same four channels, right? So, there was this one episode about this girl who was Pakistani and basically, it was so like stereotypical. It was it was just bad. And the next day, I got bullied so much harder. And everyone I can't remember what her name was, but everyone was calling me that name and going, "Is that what your mom and dad are like? Is that what you're like?" Cuz I remember just coming home from school and being just, you know, wrecked. And thinking, "I hate TV.

It's ruining my life." And the way people are treating me are based on what this box at home that has four channels is telling everyone about me. These siloed, stereotypical stories about our people. And that changed my life. And I from that moment was like, "One day" I used to sit on my windowsill in England and look at the stars and I went, "One day I'm going to" And by the way, I used to think that Michael Jackson was really poorly treated. And I'm like, "One day I'm going to be Michael Jackson's manager.

And I'm going to take care of him and I'm going to protect him." And I think that that was such a life-changing moment for me. That knowing that media, and I couldn't articulate it in that way then, but knowing that media impacted the way I was treated on a day-to-day basis and the responsibility and the impact of that. Yeah, it's and and it was such a real experience I feel for us in our generation for sure. Like I had that growing up. I went to a predominantly non-Indian school because of the area I grew up in.

And I think I was one of like three Indian kids in my class growing up in primary school. And I was bullied for my weight. I was bullied for my color. I was bullied for the way my lunch smelled because sometimes my mom would make me Indian things. things. things. And I remember that experience. And then I remember thinking just how many slurs our parents went through as well having gone through even earlier than us. And that was the reason my parents gave me and my sister names that no one could make fun of in England.

It was like Jay and Amy. Wow. Just to make just to make us have an easier ride than they did because that's how worried and concerned they were that we would get bullied. But you know the other crazy thing though is I was also bullied at home within our community because I was mixed. I was half Hindu and half Sikh. And for the Sikhs, I wasn't Sikh enough. And for the Hindus, I wasn't Hindu enough. And I also grew up in such a white environment that I didn't speak like a lot of the Indian Londoners, right?

And in any scenario, I like just did not fit in. Mhm. You know, it was always that feeling of isolation. Yeah, I mean, you're you've had such an untraditional career since then. And I almost feel like you not fitting in is kind of like turned into your superpower. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely. Because now you don't fit in as well and that's that's a superpower. It's it's worked for you. It's helped you be multiple things. When did you find that you started to realize you were becoming more confident in your differences?

And when did they start to feel like a tool and an approach and a method that could lead to more? You know, only until I got to Silicon Valley and I raised money Wow. Wow. Wow. for an original idea. So, me and my ex-husband, we we founded this company called Daisy Hits, which is around the time you met me. And it was a podcast that went viral. Actually, we were in podcasting way before anyone was in podcasting. Um so, it was a podcast that went completely viral.

And all these VCs started chasing me for money. And it was basically a mashup of culture. So, it was like we were playing a lot of music. So, there was a lot of hip-hop with bhangra. It was like Bollywood with R&B. It was like, you know, drum and bass. And it was just like a mashup of all the music that we loved that I felt growing up represented me, right? Like I remember this moment when I first walked into a nightclub in London when I was in university.

And university. And university. And turned out later that that was my my husband. husband. husband. He was a DJ at at university and he was just playing this mashup of like bhangra and hip-hop. And I remember dancing to it just going, "Wow, this is me. This is me. Like this is who I am. Like it just felt really like a moment." And it's so funny cuz much later on, I explained this to Jimmy Iovine. For those of you don't know who he is, he was a founder of Beats by Dre and Interscope Records, which, you know, was behind like some of the most Eminem, 50 Cent, like yeah.

most legendary most legendary most legendary people I grew up on that I'm a massive fan of. fan of. fan of. Yeah, Dr. Dre, like everyone. Like Lana Del Rey, like you name it. Lady Gaga. Anyway, and I told him this other moment that felt similar to that where when Punjabi MC and Jay-Z jumped on that track together, track together, track together, which was on the underground forever. Like Beware of the Boys was on the underground forever in Daisy circles. South Asian circles. Yes. But when Jay-Z jumped on it and mashed that up and created that new track and it became sort of mainstream pop hit, I feel like I remember being in London and everybody driving used to drive with their Indian music and that their windows up.

And there was this just moment where all the windows came down really slowly cuz everyone was like, "Even the white person in the car next to me is playing the same song." And I told Jimmy Iovine that moment. I was like, "It was just this like moment where everybody felt accepted and everybody felt part of the same thing." You know, and you feel it now when you go to a a concert or whatever. Like everyone there is enjoying the same thing and focused on the same thing and you feel this sense of community.

Well, we never felt that we belonged in that community until that moment. So, music's always been such like a significant thing to me in terms of connecting people and putting people together. But to answer your question, raising money and people going, "I'm going to back that idea of this element of fusion and everything you are." Which it doesn't fit into anything. Like, it wasn't all Indian, it wasn't all British, it wasn't all American, it wasn't all, you know, any one thing, right? It was just a mashup of everything.

And then to, yeah, raise $5 million against that was pretty amazing. That is, yeah. If someone If someone's listening right now and they're thinking, "Ange, like, you know, I'm at university or I'm about to graduate. Maybe I'm 30 years old and I've been working for 9 years and not really sure about what I'm doing." What advice would you give to them to find their unique voice? Because what you found was something that represented you and you were able to monetize it and create more from it.

What advice would you give to someone who's in that 20 to 30 range? Firstly, I just want to say I call myself mapless, right? I never had a map. And you know, you still listen to these types of podcasts, not yours, but well, or or, you know, people go, "Get your goal. Figure out your goal. Get your, you know, your map to your goal." And I'd be like, "Well, I don't know what my goal is. I don't know what my journey is cuz I don't have a goal and I don't have a destination, so I don't know how to get [clears throat] there." Um so, I never had a map, I never had a destination anything I've done.

So, the thing that you have to do, cuz I didn't even know there was a business idea in this. The I'll tell you the fundraising story and this will explain. So, I was an executive search finding CEOs for um startups. And I worked with a bunch of VCs. We founded this podcast, it went viral. In your daily life, you never just talk about one thing, you never just talk about business. So, I'm talking to this VC and I'm going, he's like, "What else is going on?" And I'm like, "Oh my god, me and Rashi did this podcast and it went completely viral." And like, you know, we have like 250,000 downloads on iTunes and I was just chatting about it, right?

But I was genuinely super passionate about it because that's my thing. [snorts] [snorts] [snorts] So, the next day, I get this exploding timesheet from him. He asked me to send him the iTunes report and he just I'm so curious, would you send it to me? And I go, "Yeah, I have nothing to hide." So, I sent it to him. And then the next day he sent me an exploding timesheet for a million dollars for a quarter quarter of the company. the company. the company. And I was just like I was flabbergasted.

I didn't know what to do. I was like, "This is insane." Like, but then he was like, "Your husband, he had a job at Intel." He's like, "He has to give up his job. This is the conditions of this timesheet that you both have to do this again." Because he was a tech guy and I was just the ideas person, right? Wow. Wow. Wow. And I was like, so I come home to my husband, I'm like, "You have to give up your job." And he was like, "For what?" And I was like, "For this, but we're going to get a million dollars and we're going to start this company and blah blah blah blah blah." And I had to convince him to do it with me.

But the point of that is to say, you should always feel comfortable to talk about your ideas. Because you may not see something, but somebody else might see something. You know what I mean? So, And also the collision of that idea because you're working a job doing executive search. So, you have a job. And it's not that your job was useless and a waste of time and you didn't have value cuz I think a lot of us sometimes you get into a job and you go, "I'm in this dead end job.

I hate it. It's the worst." But you never know how that job could connect you to something. Like you didn't know when you were going to mention this podcast you both had that actually someone you were connected to through your job. And also, yeah, right. And I thought it was kind of a silly hobby. And the only reason I set up a company around it was because my dad was convinced we were going to get sued for copyright. So, because we were playing all this music without licensing.

So, my dad being my dad who's highly litigious was like, "You need to get a company around that so they can't sue you and take your home." And that was the only reason I did it because my dad was freaking out about it cuz we were getting momentum and he was like, "All those music companies are going to come after you." Turn out all those music companies later wanted to invest in the company. And it just sort of like took off from there. But going back to your question about advice, like, I would say a couple of things.

Like, I want to teach people how to network. Like, that's something that I think is really critical. So, when I first I moved from uh London to Silicon Valley, um I was in my late 20s and I'd had I'd had a career in executive search and advertising. And I went to Silicon Valley and I knew absolutely no one. Like, I didn't even know my godmother. Like, it was bad. And I was like dropped into Silicon Valley and I was just like, "Oh my god, I'm going to die here cuz I don't know anyone." So, someone mentioned like literally someone in my building who, you know, I lived in a in a in a an apartment building said, "Oh, there's these South Asian meetups for tech people." people." people." And I was like, "Well, not really in tech, but, you know, I could just go and see if I can meet people." So, I went and after like probably a year, I was running those things.

And it was all VCs and entrepreneurs and I like just created my own. And the way I did that was So, let's just say I know no one in the room and I meet you. And I go, "Oh, hey Jay, how are you? What do you do?" Blah blah blah. And trust me, I know that takes confidence. But everyone I I heard on one of your podcasts, everyone's feeling shitty. Everyone's like doesn't know who to talk to. Totally. Everyone's got that name tag on there thinking, "God, who am I going to speak to?

This is so awkward." So, just just have that bravery to go up to that first person and talk to them. So, I did that. I go, "What What are you in?" And the guy was like, I can't remember, but he was let's just say he was in like software for healthcare, right? So, I was chatting with him. I had nothing to offer, I had nothing to give. I was literally just like doing some headhunting stuff in England. It was It was It was not good. So, anyway, so I just chatted with him and then, you know, people would come in and I would like meet someone else.

And I they would be like I would be like, "What do you do?" And they'd be like, "Oh, I'm an investor in tech healthcare, right?" So, I'm like, "Oh my god, you need to meet this person." And then I would put them together and they would have a conversation. Now, sometimes it would lead to absolutely nothing. Yeah. But on the other occasion, it led to something. And a couple of people got funded based off those introductions that I did. Wow. And they were just like that.

So, by the end of like the night, because and someone taught me how to do this, I was just connecting all these people. People just saw me as a connector. And people wanted me in the room because I made their lives easier. So, going back to one of your other podcasts I heard today back talking about being in service, I didn't actually mean to be in service. I was just insecure and didn't know what to say to anyone and had nothing to offer to the conversation.

So, I was like, "If this person talks to me about this and this person needs this, I can just put them together and pretend like I'm great, right?" No, but I love that because it's such a it it's so important. Like whether it's service or value, the point is you were adding value to other people's lives. And the best way you could do that at that point when you felt you didn't have anything to offer personally was to connect them with people. And that's huge because I think we often feel like, "Oh, if I introduce that person to that person, then they won't want to help me." And not really Right?

And never even crossed my mind. my mind. my mind. Yeah, but a lot of people feel like that. A lot of people are like, "I won't connect people." And I think that's rubbed off on people that you love. Like, for example, when I came to LA, if I didn't know Payal, I wouldn't have met so many of my early friends here. And like because she was connecting me, so I met Jeremy, I met you, I met so many other people because of her. And so, it's such a contagious thing as well, where the people you're working with and your friends with also end up having that quality, which which is such a beautiful quality.

That's amazing. I love that. love that. love that. I never understood people that had guardrails up about introducing people to people. Like, I never understood that because I was like, "This makes you more valuable." Like, it's such a deep quality to be able to connect people with people and it's such a value. And then people want you around all the time. How many times you've heard in conversation, "Oh, you got to meet that person" and they're a connector. Yeah. what I mean? Like, that is like it's it's it's such a valuable thing to be a connector.

So, anyway, so just going back to your initial question about, you know, young people listening to this podcast, I think it's really critical that you feel confident to introduce people to other people and be curious and find out what other people are doing and see how you can add value. Along the way, you will get value. Like, I think about my career is now built in bringing people value and I get all the you know, I get all the rewards for that. Like, whether it's a return on investment in an investment of two people I put together, or an investment that I made, or a connection that I made.

Like, I just feel like it it really pays in dividends. dividends. dividends. Yeah, I agree. Agree. Any other tips on good networking? Because I think you're spot on. I think a lot of people now think networking's either handing your card out, which is like an old model of it, or people think networking is like asking someone to just be your mentor. Yeah. And that doesn't work either. Any other good advice for networking? You know, just on the mentor thing, um so, my mentor is Indra Nooyi.

And I'm It's a funny story how I met Indra. So, I happened to be on some Forbes list with her um and an ex-boyfriend who I was dating worked for Pepsico and then he forwarded it to Indra and just said, "Oh, my girlfriend's on this list with you." And she was like, "Oh, I'd really love to meet her." And he sort of called me and was like, "Indra wants to meet you." And I was like, "Oh, that's amazing." Like, I want to meet her, of course.

It's Indra Nooyi, who was the CEO of Pepsico at that time. So, anyway, I met her and she was Oh my god, so incredibly lovely to me. Um and I couldn't understand why, honestly. I was like, "What value do I bring to this woman?" And actually turned out she really wanted me to meet her daughters and she was like She said something really funny. She was like, "This woman broke a Bollywood star in America and and it's hard enough to break a juice brand." That's what she said.

She was like, "It's hard enough to break a juice brand, but this girl broke a Bollywood star in America." And I was like, "Oh, that's so funny." Anyway, so then I, you know, we stay in touch. She makes me dosas. She's like amazing. She comes like a mom. I would call her more my godmom than a mentor now because she really sort of like mothers me in the nicest way. And anyway, but then one day she said to me, she goes, "I want to mentor you." And I was like, "Okay, that's amazing." And she was like, "But my deal with mentorship is that you have to do everything I tell you.

If I tell you to do something, you have to do it." So, she goes, "You have to commit to me that you would do what I tell you to do." And I was like, "That's a really big undertaking." Like she has probably only ever told me once to do something not to do something or do something, and that's been really valuable advice. But anyway, my point is to mentorship is she always says mentors pick you, and I agree with that. I I picked Payal Kadakia, the founder of ClassPass.

Like I met Payal, she pitched to me, and I decided I wanted to mentor her, and I decided that she was someone I wanted to put a lot of time into, and then I mentored her. And I think that you have to allow mentors to pick you. And I it's really hard because you know, we speak at a lot of conferences, and people come up to me, and lots of young girls come up to me and say, "Will you mentor me? Will you mentor me?" And I'm just like, "Well, you know, actually no." You know, and it's and I just feel like you've got to build a relationship with someone.

I I never asked Indra to mentor me. Like did I want her to mentor me? Hell yeah, who wouldn't? But you know, I I don't know. I create a pathway for that and I think that's what you have to do. Create pathways for that to happen naturally and organically. Build a relationship with someone who you value. And also I would say in mentoring like when um I first met Indra, she was uh launching her book, and she she wanted like mothers to you know, write the blurb for them.

And I was like, "Oh, what about Mindy Kaling? What about um Who else did I get? I got Mindy, and then someone else. I can't remember who else now. But the point is like I brought value to her, too. It wasn't a one-way street, and I think that when you're looking for mentors, go and show them how powerful you are, too. It's a two-way thing. Make them want to mentor you. Make them want you in that orbit. Show your value, and I think that's what I've done my entire life is like really show value to people.

Actually not doing it purposefully, just doing that because I guess I'm in service, you know? Yeah, I've I've never heard someone put it like that. I love the idea that the mentor picks you, and you're so so right. Like there are people that I just feel genuinely good about, whether it's their idea, whether it's their energy, whether it's just their spirit. And I'm like, "Yeah, I'm going to spend more time talking to this person than anyone else." Even if someone was more eager or more whatever, it wasn't that.

It was You're so right. No one's ever said it like that before. I've always heard other things about mentorship, but you're absolutely right that you can't convince someone to give you their time and invest in you and focus on you in that way. Like you can't convince someone to love you, right? In the same way I think I got that out of you. I wrote You can't make some You can't love someone harder to make them love you, [clears throat] right? Or whatever that is. Like and it's the same with mentorship.

It's like you can't force someone to do that. The funny thing about Payal when she came to me, she wanted to raise money. I was probably one of the few South Asian women at that time that had raised venture capital. So she was kind of came to me because I'd raised capital and she wanted help. And that's the journey that we sort of ended up going on to. But it what was interesting was I said to her, I was like, um "Where are you going to work with this idea?" Once I committed to mentoring and helping out, I was like, "Where are you going to work?" And she was like, "In Starbucks." And I was like, "I have two desks in my office.

You can have them." You know what I mean? And then she was with me every single day. And we were like, you know, kind of going through like it was just I was sitting at my desk, she was sitting at her desk, and she'd be like, "Hey Ange, what do you think about this idea? What do you think about that?" So but I I loved every single minute of that experience. And I would say, you know, with Payal and I, she has called me her mentor, but I would say we're like she's my She mentors me now.

She taught me how to pivot. I never knew how to pivot before I met her. Wow. Talk to me about I want to talk about pivoting in a second. Talk to me about how you pick people you mentor because I think it's important for people to hear that, too. Knowing that your mentor picks you, but like what was it about Payal? What was it about other people that you've worked with that you went, "I'm going to put my time and energy into this person." You know, um with Payal, I just It she always says this.

She goes, "You knew who I was before I knew who I was." I just knew she was a star. I It's that je ne sais quoi. It's It's that It's that magic. It's that essence. I just knew she had all the combination. She was charismatic. She was fun. She was smart. She could figure things out. I could see her brain work. Like I could It's so funny. I was playing this game Sequence with a bunch of my friends once, and Payal walks in, and she just like wins the game in 1 second.

We didn't even teach her how to play the game. Like and I was like, "How did you do that?" She goes, "I don't know. You told me I need to make a sequence, and I did it." She's just so brilliant. Like her brain is so brilliant, and I saw that. It's like I could literally see the wheels turning in her mind. So I think it's a combination of things, and like I say, it's very hard. It's It's so instinctual. Like so much my career has been about instinct.

Like and for me, it's just instinct. I want to talk about instinct because I love what you said about the idea that you never had a map. Yeah. And Yeah. And Yeah. And Never. I completely agree with that for my life. my life. my life. never had one, either. I You don't You don't get You don't do what I'm doing if There's no map for this because it didn't exist. Same with you. Like there's no map for this. And there's not many case studies to be able to have a map, right?

A map is when someone scaled a company from this to this and that to that, and it's been done before. But when you're doing things that you're kind of finding your own way, I love that you said you followed your instinct, and you definitely from the amount of time I've spent with you, I feel that with you, and you always follow it regardless of what's going on. Talk to me about how you built up trust in your instinct because I think everyone's looking for a map.

And what you said earlier, you said people need goals because you need something out there to drive you. Instinct is you driving yourself from here. It's almost like inside out rather than outside in. Where did you learn to find your instinct, listen to your instinct, drive from that instinct? Where did that come from? The whole map-less piece, I just didn't have a choice. So then I had to make decisions through my life, and they were I don't know. They were just made through instincts because I didn't know how else to make decisions.

But one thing I would tell you which is a brilliant piece of advice that I've lived my life on. Um but it came later in life, so it doesn't answer your question exactly because I because I because I start I started working with my instinct way before this. But Jimmy Iovine always said to me, I said to him, "You know, you're so brilliant at seeing around corners. How do you see around corners? How do you know what's coming next?" And he looked at me and he said, "It's the thing that you do." And I go, "What do I do?

I don't know what I do. What do I do?" And he said, "You use your ears in relation to your mouth. You have two ears and you have one mouth." And I was like, "Okay." And he goes, "I've watched you. You listen. You listen a lot." He said, "You say a lot, and you do a lot." He said, "But you actually listen more than you do or say." And he was like, "You have to listen to the constant conversations that are happening." So one of the other reasons why I invested in ClassPass, our dear friend Rohan Oza, who we both know.

Um he walked into my apartment one day, and he was like, "Oh, I just like to SoulCycle. It's like amazing." And I was like, "SoulCycle? What's SoulCycle?" And he was like, "You know what SoulCycle is? And everyone's quitting the gyms and going to SoulCycle." And I was like, "Oh, okay." And then it was at that time that people were literally quitting gyms and going to Barry's Bootcamp and going to these like appointment, you know, fitness classes. I was like, "Oh, that's so interesting." And everyone was like, "I'm going to Pop Physique.

I'm going to Barry's Bootcamp. I'm going to this. I'm going to that." So when Payal came to me with this OpenTable for classes, that at that time the way people were finding classes were they were literally calling up the class provider. Yeah, like you would at a restaurant. Like back in the day before there was OpenTable or Resy, you would be calling up a restaurant, right? Seeing what availability you had. So when Payal said to me, "Oh yeah, you know, it's basically a platform. It's kind of like OpenTable for classes." That was exactly what she said to me.

And and literally like days before Rohan Rohan had been in my apartment going on about everyone's going to classes. And then I just moved to New York, and I was trying to find a gym, and I was like, "Should I join Equinox?" And everyone was like, "No, no, no. Just go to these classes. Go to this. Go to that." Like so again, like that's just me listening, you know? So So when I made that decision to invest in Payal, it was like me just doing a lot of listening and my instinct going, "All the clues are telling you yes." And there was another time that happened.

When I first started working with Priyanka, I signed her uh to a record label with Jimmy Iovine, and we were going to turn her into a pop star. And you know, we did a bunch of records, and you know, it just wasn't hitting. It wasn't working. As he kept telling me, we were like 22 20 years too early. That's what he said. He was like, "The whole sort of South Asian music scene." He was like, "I get what you want to do, but you're 20 years too early." He's probably right about that timeline, isn't he?

Yeah, this was like nearly 20 years ago. So with Priyanka, like So you know, people were like, "Oh, well, that's done then. That's not going to work. She should go back to India and whatever." And I was like, "No, this woman is like one of our most celebrated actresses in India." Like, you know, she was incredible. And at that time, I started listening to conversations. What was everybody talking about? And everybody at that time was talking about How to Get Away with Murder and Grey's Anatomy and all of these like um uh Scandal and all of these shows where, you know, they were they had these diverse female leads.

And it was like the golden age of television, and television was coming back, and you had Academy Award-winning actors acting in TV, which was previous to that considered like down there. You know what I mean? So there was this huge cultural shift happening with television. television. television. So, you know, I pitched Pri about doing a TV show. And at first, she was really like not into it. She was like, you know, know, know, I'm a movie actress. Like, you know, we do movies. Like And in her mind was TV in India was X.

But you know, like I said, we were in this like massive global shift where TV and was was in this different place. So, anyway, convinced her to to to go and we auditioned for Quantico and eventually she got it and that became her show. And that was an ABC drama where I convinced the casting director that this was her next female diverse lead. So, but again, if I hadn't been listening to what everyone was talking about, I wouldn't have had the instinct to go we're not going to do any more music, we're going to go and hit television.

You explained that so well. That that is a great piece of advice because I always think about it is there's three types of people. There's the people that consume patterns, there's the people who see patterns and then the people who create patterns and it's almost like most of us are just watching. So, we're watching the shows, we're going to SoulCycle, yeah, we're doing all the things, but we're not noticing which the person above does where they're like, oh, I can see everyone's going SoulCycle, what you just said, everyone's going SoulCycle, there are like there's patterns here.

And then you've got the people like yourself and Priyanka and others who go and create patterns which is like, oh, okay, we're going to build the thing that everyone will actually do this pattern through that we see. And most of us just stay on like level one where we're like, oh, yeah, I want to go to SoulCycle, I want to drink matcha, I want to whatever it may be, but there's two levels above where someone's looking down going, oh, yeah, this is what I'm going to build.

And and that's great advice. From the time that we've spent together, you're just so good at convincing people and stuff. Like I feel like you're just you're so convincing, you're but it's honest convincing. Like I don't think it's a I don't just think it's a fake technique, it's not a like it's you're not like that. It's like it's very you're passionate about the stuff you do. do. do. way, I did a fake it till I made it. Okay, so so talk to me about what are the skills that you need to persuade and convince people to see what you see.

Well, so first thing I would say, anybody in life, in business, should go to drama school, right? And I don't mean drama school like that should be your degree. I mean like you should go to improv. Like if you have any form of anxiety at all, you need to get yourself into an improv class because improv, you know what improvisation is, right? You literally just jump into a scene, right? So, you and I would be in a scene and we'd just create a scene and we'd just go on the fly.

And I wanted to be an actress, like that's what I wanted to be. Um, but it was really difficult for a brown girl in the '90s to be an actress in England. So, I decided I didn't want to be poor. That was also a big driver for me. I was like, I don't want to be poor and be trying to go from audition to audition where there's very limited roles for me. So, I want to be a rich businesswoman. I never actually decided at that point I wanted to be in in in the movies or in talent or anything like that.

I just wanted to be in business. But, one thing I will say to you is that whole like improv has just been amazing at just allowing myself to be thrown into any situation and be able to swim in it. Like and if I didn't like know what I was doing, I would fake it. And I know there's a lot of controversy around that and I'm sure you guys have discussed it and I'm sure you've had people on your show say that is a terrible thing to do.

But, I did fake it and it started with my body language. It started with my the way I speak. It started with all these, you know, small cues that you pick up from people. Like now, it's so funny like even just this like the way I'm sitting right now. Like this is my innate comfort. I'm I'm very comfortable with you. I'm sitting with all my body language open. My legs are crossed, however. But, when I was, you know, in early business situations where I didn't feel confident, you know, how I'd want to be was like this.

Like I would want to be all closed up, but I would force my shoulders back, I'd force my arms out, I would, you know, sometimes do this cuz that's just a sign of confidence like you you you feel good in your own skin. when you did that. yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so funny. I mean, I've also It's so silly and it's so crazy. crazy. crazy. isn't it? isn't it? isn't it? For women, it's such an easy thing to do. It's kind of like, yeah, I could take it or leave it.

Like that's basically what I'm saying. But, the way to convince people, well, it's a couple of things. Like so, you know, I've raised a lot of money through my career for other people, for myself, for different projects. I'm honestly I'm sort of a bit of a ultimate fundraiser and someone gave me this piece of advice very early on and they said if you want to raise money, ask for advice and if you want advice, ask for money. And I used that through my whole life. So, I never that's so good.

Yeah, if you want money, ask for advice and if you want advice, ask for money because basically you'll get the opposite. opposite. opposite. Yeah. So, now now now people are going to watch this and go, oh, she was selling to me that time. Okay, there are all times when I sold to people using that technique. But, the truth is like now I'm at this point where I can't help raising money. Like literally like I just talk to people and they're like offering me money all the time.

It's so insane. For any venture, any idea, I'll go, I had this idea and they're like, do you want to raise money for that? And I'm like, no, I don't raise money for that. But, the point is is like you've really just got to be so passionate and curious about what that person's interested in. So, I'm so I'm trying to go back to question of how how are you convincing? How am I convincing? So, first off, I'll figure out what you're interested in. Like I will never talk to some someone about something that I don't think they're interested in.

Such an important point. And I will also test things, right? So, again, I'm a really good like body what's that called? Body reader? No, uh Yeah. And I will only talk about things that are relevant to that person. So, once I know my audience and I know that person's interested, I just look for all the cues about what lights them up, what's interesting to them and I only go keep going on the things that I think they're interested in. So, it's just a constant like checking in with your audience.

Like I watch people sell and they'll just be like, okay, so I've got this idea and I want to do this and I'm going to do this and this is this and this is how much money it's going to make and this is why it's so good and blah blah blah and they've zero checked in with me. They're not even looking at me. I could be looking away, but they their 2 minutes to get to me and like they're just going to keep going, keep going.

And like I wish they'd just stop and check in with me say, does this even interest you or what do you think about that or whatever. So, I think part of it is that. So, I think it's just constantly checking in and then I think it's just like being so curious. It's not a one-way conversation ever. And if it's a one-way conversation, you're in trouble. Like selling is not a one-way conversation. Mhm. Like I remember when I first went for my first sales job, the woman interviewed me and she said, okay, I want you to sell me a movie and I go, okay.

She was like, I said she goes, think of a movie that you've seen in the last, you know, month and sell it to me. And I go, okay. And I go, what kind of movies are you into? into? into? And she goes, I like thrillers, I like blah blah blah. And I go, okay, what kind of thrillers do you like? Like what was the last movie you watched that you loved? And she goes, how did you know how to do that? And I go, what do you mean?

She goes, well, you asked me questions rather than to go, I saw this movie on Saturday and it was XYZ and it was so good and you should go and watch it. I was like, I don't know. I don't want to sell you something that's not interesting to you. Yeah. Like I've watched quite a few movies in the last month, any one of those could be good for you. So, I think it's just being really curious about your audience, too, and then approaching it with passion and seeing what lights their eyes up and seeing seeing what they're passionate about.

Yeah, I mean, the best case study of it is probably how did you connect with Priyanka because that was a vision you had for her to like because, you know, like you said, Priyanka is an amazing huge Bollywood actress at the time time time and it's not easy to convince stars to come over and even want to attempt having a career here, let alone having a great career here. Yeah. Talk to me about that. Well, that's like such a funny story because that is nothing like what I just told you.

[laughter and gasps] Because so, what happened with Priyanka, it's a funny story. I saw her on TV at my mom and dad's house years and years before I was even in the business. And I looked at her and something spoke to me and and and Miss World or no? No, no. She was in this movie called Bluffmaster and she was doing this hip-hop spoof. And I just saw her on TV at my mom's house in England and I I don't know, this thing clearly it was my destiny because I just go to my mom, oh, who's that?

And my mom goes, that's Priyanka Chopra and she's like this huge star in India, blah blah and I just filed it away cuz I was in tech, I was doing a bunch of other things. I hadn't even founded Desi Hits at that point. Like it was way before and I just filed it away. Anyway, years later, I'm sitting in an office with Jimmy Iovine and we've just done all the music for Slumdog Millionaire and it was top 10 in 10 countries and it was like this big global hit and he was so happy and he was like, I I listened to you and it worked.

And he was like he's he was just he's he's that guy. He's like full of like life and ambition. He was like, what are we doing next? And I just go, Jimmy, you know, there's this woman, Priyanka Chopra, that I saw on TV ages ago and she's this huge star and blah blah blah. And we start YouTubing videos of her and he goes, can she sing? And randomly at that time, I was launching Lady Gaga in India. Wow. And I was working with these two two two producers, Salim and Sulaiman, and they had just recorded a demo with Priyanka randomly.

Again, it was all destiny. I feel like this is all destiny. I said to them, oh, do you know Priyanka? And they were like, of course. And I said, do you think she can sing? And they were like, actually, we just recorded this demo. So, I go, do you mind sending it to me? And they were like, no, we can't really do that, blah blah blah. And and I I don't know, I convinced them cuz I'm convincing to send it to me and I promised them it would only be me that would listen to it and maybe one other person.

So, I send it to Jimmy and he goes, well, she can sing. And he goes, let's just do it. And I go, what do you mean, let's just do it? He goes, well, let's sign her to a record deal. And I go, I don't even know her. And through like different people, actually, I I it was through Salim, I got to her, and I yeah, I remember doing this phone call with her. And it was the worst phone call ever. She was in this jungle recording this movie, and she was in that very actor state of mind, where she didn't want this young girl from America with this English accent trying to convince her to be a pop star.

Like Yeah. She wasn't that was the wrong frame of mind she was in. So anyway, I was trying to convince her to be a pop star, and I was like, "Hey, look, I'd love to sign you and love you to bring you to America, blah blah blah." She barely said anything on that call. So I put the phone down, and I called Jim, and he goes, "How did it go?" I go, "Terrible. Like I just talked and talked and talked, and you know, I think she had very little to say to me." And anyway, I don't know.

I get a call later from her manager at that time, and Natasha Pal, and she was like, "Yeah, Priyanka's in." And I was like, "What?" She was like, "Priyanka's in." And that was the one time that I feel like my cells was terrible. I didn't ask her any questions. I was so nervous to talk to her, and I just talked at her, but I don't know. Something worked. It worked. It worked. It worked, all these years later. How does it feel, you know, when we think back to that little girl who was bullied for her culture, for her background, for how she looked, and then to go on to work on helping that culture be so prominently displayed in so many different art forms, whether that's music through Slumdog Millionaire or businesses like ClassPass or you know, Priyanka Chopra in movies and TV in America.

Like, how does that feel now? You know, it's so funny. Someone said something to me the other day about this, and they were like, "Oh, you were never trying to fit in. You want people to fit into your culture." Like I remember Lady Gaga, we put her in a sari, she came to India, and she loved this sari. It was made by Tarun Tahiliani. And she loved it so much that she turned it into four different costumes. So she performed that evening She wore it in the day, then she had her stylist chop it up and turn it into something else, then they chopped it up again, turned it into something else, then at the end it was a bodysuit that she performed in.

And I remember she was coming off stage, and she held my hand, and she goes, "How did I do?" And I was just like, "My god. Like, how did you do? You're amazing." But I remember just being like, she's here in India with me wearing a sari that's now turned into a bodysuit. But it was just this evolution of this outfit was just kind of the evolution of my journey of of bringing this culture to everyone. And I always believed that if celebrities, I do believe in celebrity endorsement, it works.

If celebrities endorsed our culture, and it's I know a lot of people criticize me for this and say, "You shouldn't need that endorsement from other people, and you shouldn't need this." But when you've been bullied your entire life, and called a [ __ ] and beaten up, and spat on, and all sorts of things, yeah, you do. I'm sorry. I needed that. And I just like in that moment just felt like I don't need it anymore. Now I'm good. Now I've got all of you guys to be in my culture versus me spending my whole life being in your culture.

Mhm. You know what I mean? And it's funny. Like I was talking to a friend of mine, he was just saying to me like, it's just amazing how you spent your life really bringing people into your culture versus trying to figure out how to be in theirs. Mhm. Yeah. And and and and I love that because I think that is the only way of doing it. And that you want to be on the same page where your culture and someone else's culture is more evident. Like it's it's more present, whereas you're absolutely right.

And I feel like for people in America it was even harder. For When I meet When I met And you probably felt that. When I met South Asians in America, I realized that they'd had no representation. Whereas in England, we started to see things because of people like yourself and others. We had things like BBC Asian Network. We had uh artists that were rising. We had all of that at that time at least. at least. at least. Correct. And in America they didn't have that. And they're only 4% of the population, so it was such a small group of people that any room you walked into, people didn't know whether you were what background you were from.

Yeah. Right? Like being Indian in England was still known, but being Indian here wasn't. Like people didn't really know what that was. Yeah, when we first came to America, um one of the things that we noticed was you either had Indian kids that were mad into Bollywood and were really desi, right? And the they were called fobs. Like people called them fobs, fresh off the boat. And they were really like, you know, really Indian. And I wouldn't say that I really related to them because I was very British and also very Indian, but blah blah blah.

Anyway, and then you had these kids that completely shunned the culture, and just completely embraced American culture. And I was somewhere in between. And I wanted to find a pathway for those for them to meet in the middle. And desi hits was very much about that. I was like, all these kids that like, you know, and if I'm mashing up like hip hop with Bollywood, or I'm mashing up bhangra with, you know, I don't know, whatever type of music, that's where that meeting happens. So that was really sort of sort of sort of an observation that I had very early on, and I wanted to bring those worlds together for even for Indian kids.

Yeah. But knowing you, I know you don't feel the job is done. No, not at all. I mean, do you? No, definitely definitely definitely Do you feel our job is done? Of course not. Yeah, no, [snorts] I not. Of course not. Yeah, no, [snorts] I definitely don't think that our job is done. done. done. Um Um Um I mean, I won't until everything just feels completely normal. And I think we still think see things that are South Asian go, "Oh my god, look at that. Look at that." You know what I mean?

We still like like like surprised when we see things. We shouldn't be surprised. We should feel completely integrated. completely integrated. completely integrated. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. one. Yeah. What's a business skill that you think everyone listening should master if they want to be successful in business? I think really like learning to communicate ideas. Mhm. You know, throughout my entire career and having people pitch to me, and you know, you have to become masterful at at pitching your ideas in a way that is not boring, is not all consuming, which is not all about you.

But again, going back to that thing I said to you about finding out what someone's interested in. Like you've just got to be really good at a two-way path. You know, I think the biggest issue that I see young entrepreneurs or young people in business, they think everything is one way, and it has to be a two-way highway. And then the other thing that I think people really need to juggle. So you're you're interesting because I think you're part of this new group of what we call mul- multipreneurs, where these So there used to be this whole thing that you do one thing, you have one goal, you pursue that one goal, and you that one thing.

I think times have really changed. I think the indus- I the industries have changed, where you can now be doing multiple things. So you're the CEO of Juni, right? You're a podcast host. You could tomorrow be an actor. You could be tomorrow do a million things, right? But that doesn't mean you give up each thing to do that other thing. other thing. other thing. Yes. And I think that's the world we're in now, where you don't have to give up what you were doing to become this new thing.

You can do it all. I have a music label. I have an investment company. I you know, do so I I mentor people. I I actually am a founder for two businesses. Like I do so many things, and I think that you also in this new world have to be used to being like a five-lane highway. Yeah. And I think people that are a five-lane highway and have cars in different lanes going at different speeds, and maybe one hasn't even started yet, be okay with that.

Like don't Like this old rhetoric of you got to do one thing, and you got to do that one thing, and you got to have one goal, and you got to be focused on it. You know, one of the failures I think I had, which again Pal taught me out of the whole pivot thing, was like when I first started one of my companies, I was so adamant that I had to reach this one goal, and if I, you know, I couldn't pivot, I had to stay focused, and if I just stayed on that one thing, eventually it would work.

Well, that's the biggest lie ever. That's not true at all. You have to read the room. You have to see what's going on around you, and you have to pivot. You can't be focused on one thing all the time. So I think like being successful in today's world is really learning that. I would say be the be the five-lane highway. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I I feel like it's almost like like like you [snorts] start with one thing that allows you to become somewhat And it And it's That's the point.

It's not becoming at the end of it, but it's like you build one thing somewhat substantiating who you are and what you're doing, and then you get this ability to spread yourself across these multiple things and become that multi-hyphenate. And and I think you're right that that idea of just stay to one thing, or just start with everything is also confusing because because because Correct. if you were to do seven things in the beginning, it's like, well, what are What are you communicating? What do you actually believe in?

yeah. And what's working. So you're right, it's somewhere in the middle of like like I feel like that. Like I start My world has been built in content and podcasting and social media. And now I have the ability to do lots of different things because of that. Or when you have an actor who becomes a very successful actor, now they have the ability to go and build a business, or, you know, do something else. And so I I think you're right. right. right. And by the way, to that point of a talent manager now, before, you know, you used to have talent managers that just managed an actor and getting that person jobs.

Now, as a talent manager, you've got to be building businesses. Yeah. You've got to be figuring out brand deals. You've got to be like doing so many things because, you know, I can't remember who just went out and said this. I think it was Sydney Sweeney recently. She was like, you know, the films don't pay the bills. You know, the films just don't pay the bills anymore. Like the whole industry, the movie industry with streaming and everything has changed. Like residuals and royalties and all of those are wiped out now.

Like the way the business is is so different. So that means you have to do like all these other things, you know. And what we've seen is like, you know, huge stars making more money off like their beauty business Yeah. than anything else, right? Like So I'm You look at someone like Rihanna. Correct. Yeah. You look wow. What's her name? name? name? Selena Gomez. I mean, like actor, singer, entrepreneur, Rare Beauty. I mean, like it's an incredible. And I think as a talent manager now, like, I mean, I'm lucky because I came from that world.

My background was venture and venture capital and like and and founders and, you know, helping people build businesses and all of that. And then prior to that, my experience was in advertising. And prior to that, I was in sales. So for me, like as a talent manager, I'm not struggling at all. I'm actually really lucky and happy that I get to choose all my school bases with talent. But I think now, like, everybody has to be on this, as I say, five-lane highway. Yeah. How early did you get involved in Bumble?

Oh my god. You know, it's so funny. You know, everyone's posting those things right now about what were you doing in 2016. Yeah. Well, it's a crazy story cuz in 2016, both Whitney Wolfe and I were on the Elle magazine's Women in Tech. And I remember, again, that whole thing about listening and watching and observing. I remember looking at her and reading about Bumble because we were both in that magazine and going, "Oh, that's like a brilliant. Like, she's brilliant. Like, I and actually much later on in the journey when she wanted to expand to India was when was when I got involved.

And Priyanka was the the face of that. Priyanka was the face of that. And it yeah, it was amazing. Like, what was interesting was that all the other dating apps had been really unsuccessful in launching in India in getting the female demographic on on the apps. And actually, that's been the case for India in general, where whether it's Facebook, Instagram, whatever, all of these platforms have really struggled to get women onto the apps. So what she was already coming with was this very strong female story which allowed that to happen.

And you want to hear the funniest thing? Priyanka's brother met his wife on Bumble. No way. That's so cool. I love that. Yeah, yeah. That's awesome. What do you see you gave this brilliant principle earlier of the question you asked Jimmy Iovine. What do I ask you? What What do you see around the corner now? Like, what are the patterns? What are the sequences you're noticing now that young entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs of all ages who are listening right now could be like, "Oh, she's just giving me an insight into what's happening." I mean, the thing is now it's all AI, right?

That's the future. And I think what's super interesting and challenging and and scary for a lot of people is that I think a lot of these the influence is going to go away. And I was working with this company that was telling me that they had tens of thousands of AI influencers that they spread across spread across spread across basically social media channels to sell products. So I feel like the future is really going to be in AI and how we consume based on AI influencers.

And the thing is a lot of what you see, I don't know how much time you spend on Instagram or or TikTok, but a lot of what you see is actually AI and [clears throat] you don't even know it, you know? I mean, there's so I I've seen some of those AI influencers. It's scary how many followers they have already, how many comments they get, how real some of them look. And at the same time, you know they're not human, but people are still following them and I find that fascinating.

fascinating. fascinating. Well, the reason that people still follow them is because they've hacked the algorithm and data and they know exactly what people are interested in. Again, it goes back to like my whole thing of like figuring out what someone's interested in before you try and sell them something, right? The these these AI influencers have all the data to know what people are interested in. So they'll serve you exactly what you're interested in. Scary, well. What What does that mean for the era of talent, celebrity, talent management?

Like, do you plan on having an AI talent management company where you only manage AI people? Like, You know what I would like to see? I would like to see a time when talent owns their data and talent that that creates all of these AI influencers, but also talent can create their own AI influencers based on them, you know, whether it's their alter ego or whether it's actually them. I would just like to see models of ownership be created. This is coming, whether we like it or not.

This is happening, right? So how do you get ahead of it and how do you build for a future, you know, where that's going to happen? I mean, look, talent, if you think about it, is like in a really interesting place anyway because you've got all these like A-list actors who um um um you know, didn't know that all these influencers were going to come along and destabilize their business, right? Like before, it was like you were one of a number of actors who would get all of the endorsement deals.

Now, I have companies that tell me that they don't even want people to endorse. They come to say they'd rather work with micro-influencers because that's how they actually see product move. You know, with very specific niche audiences that want those certain things. So I think the whole industry has kind of really been shifted from that perspective. So this is just another shift that's going to come along. But I think that, you know, smart actors are really going to figure out how to have ownership and maybe they'll have a suite of their own actors.

Maybe they'll create their own agencies of AI individuals based on a lot of their own data, you know? Absolutely. And so yeah, all the founders out there or companies need to be thinking about the incorporation of AI in their talent strategy and their media strategy. Yeah. Yeah, and you're right, it's already here. I always think about it. People always ask me about AI and I'm like, you know, it's it's kind of like the social media conversation we had 10 years ago. Correct. It's It was already there and it's going in that direction.

So all we've got to do is learn how to use it more ethically, more safely, more securely, models models of ownership, as you rightly said. That's how we have to think about it rather than this fear-mongering of like, "Oh my god, it's it's a" it's a" it's a" And also, how you can scale yourself, right? Like, if like let's just say for example, you know, I'm a I'm an actress and people love me for my fashion. I could build a whole damn business on my fashion through AI and not even have to massively participate in that.

Like, you know, I could you know, whatever my interest is or whatever I want to do, I can build a business off of that with very little resource of myself using AI. Like, I'm monetize that. So like, I think, you know, the most critical thing is just having the talent is to have really smart people around them that can help them figure out how they use what they have and use AI to scale it. Yeah. Of all the businesses you've scaled, built, invested in, what has been the critical reasons for success or failure?

It's always down to the founder. Really? Yeah, it's always down to that individual. individual. individual. Always. The founder is everything. Like, you know, their instinct, their decision-making, decision-making, decision-making, their desire to shift or not shift or move, their ability to raise money, their ability to influence people. Yeah, it's always the founder. And that's the thing, like often I've invested in founders where I've said, "I don't even think this is the right thing." And actually, Jimmy taught me this. They I've said to founders, "I don't think what you're building is the right thing, but I believe in you and you're going to be brilliant and you're going to do something amazing." And I just see that in that founder.

When I first founded Daisy Hits, this is a such a crazy story. crazy story. crazy story. Jimmy gave me millions of dollars. And 2 weeks later, I've told this story a few times, I'm sitting at lunch with him and Jay-Z. Jay-Z. Jay-Z. And he tells me the business is going to fail. And I said, "Oh, I was so embarrassed." You can imagine, like, you're sitting with Jay-Z and Jimmy Iovine and he tells you your business is going to fail. And I was like so embarrassed and and flustered and surprised and I didn't know what to say and I just said, "So why did you give me money then?" And he goes, "Cuz you're an album, not a single." And he goes, "This is your first single, it's not going to work, but that's okay.

I want to be in business with you." Wow. It's so it comes down to the founder. It comes down to the talent. It's all about talent. Yeah. You've I mean, you've built these amazing relationships where it feels like so much incredible wisdom and and also great mentorship. Yeah. Like, people have taught you so much. Obviously, you're you're sharing By the way, I'm in the market for a new mentor. I know, I really am. So does anyone out there that wants to mentor me? Yeah, I feel like I'm at a different stage of my life and I want a mentor.

Really? The mentor has to pick you, so Exactly. That's why I'm putting it out there. Yeah, put it out there on the podcast. Yeah, here we go. We're going to manifest. manifest. manifest. a platform to put it out there. Yeah, we're going to manifest. I love But that's such a great I mean, even you saying that is so beautiful because it just shows just that coachability, that humility, that starting from the bottom, that, you know, that that needs to be there constantly. Always. Yeah, always. Always.

I mean, that's the other thing when you think about the five-lane highway, which is my new thing right now, Yeah, I like it. is is like, you know, all of those cars are going at different speeds, but not all of those cars have a mentor, you know, have an instructor. Like, there I'm doing new things all the time and I'm not afraid of that. That's my You know, I know. I see that in you. Like, you're doing new things all the time and I I watch you and I'm like, I love that.

Like, you're starting a drink brand, you know, you're doing like this, you're doing that. And that's the thing, I want to be surrounded by people that do that, but then that means I'm always doing something new and I need mentorship. Like, I don't think we're we'll ever be done there. Yeah, absolutely. And that's actually what creates so much joy in life because you're meeting new people, you're in a completely different room, you're in a completely different environment and it's I I constantly like one thing I sign off a lot of my stuff with is, "This is just the beginning." And I love repeating that to myself so many times because it's it's such a fresh There's something about the beginning that is so exciting.

And it's like if you always stay connected to that feeling, life just continues to not you don't get jaded, you don't get bitter, you don't get slowed, you just constantly feel this zest for life. And I feel that with you. Like, as someone who's had so many successful businesses, like even sitting with you today, whenever we talk, you're always just so passionate and excited about stuff. And I'm like, that's amazing to have had so much success, but still be that way. What do you think's the key to you not having become jaded or bitter with the business?

Or sometimes people would like investors are like this and stakeholders are like like like what allowed you to rise above that negativity? That's such a good question. I mean don't get me wrong. I want to be really clear cuz I don't want people to listen to me like she's always happy and blah blah blah. Not always happy. Like I you know I have my deep I've had moments of mass depression and I have had moments of having to pick myself up like off the ground having complete like feeling like I have nothing and I'm happy to talk about those moments.

In the joyous moments, I think it's just the excitement to do something new all the time. Like by the way, you ask such deep questions. deep questions. deep questions. Um like yeah, I think I think it's just the desire to be doing new things and and challenging myself even though that is really scary. Like I have moments where you you said something in a podcast about you like whenever you're doing something new you feel like an imposter. Yes. I feel like an imposter most of the time.

Yeah. Because I'm always doing something new. Same. So I always feel like what right do I have to be in this room? What right do I have to be you know doing this? But then when I look at all the entrepreneurs like ah, this is it. I've got the answer to your question. What really really inspires me is that you can topple massive industries and businesses with a new lens. So I always use Priyanka as this example, right? Because she's going to listen to this and be like oh my god, they're just talking about me.

We love you, Priyanka. Yeah, seriously. She disrupted a whole industry not because she knew the industry, not because she had any experience in it, but she had a different lens on it. And that to me oh my god, I've got goosebumps. So exciting. Yes. Yes. Yes. That you can topple a whole industry just cuz you have a different perspective on it that nobody else had and you're willing to go out on a limb and say it and do something about it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like how exciting is that?

Like think about all these like drinks that have come into the market like you know and have just like my our dear friend Rohan like who founded Vitamin Water, right? Well, he was one of the founding team. So he like saw this opportunity to to basically you know disrupt Coke and all the energy drinks and everything they were doing and he did it and he sold it to them for like $4 billion. Like you know Jimmy like disrupted sound with Beats headphones. Like it's just like to me it's like I think that's where all my energy comes from.

Entrepreneurs they just have a completely different lens on life and and go with it and and then you see them disrupt an entire industry. Like how can that not excite you? By the way, last thing Yeah. no experience. Yes. They do it with no experience. Yes. The amount of times I hear people say my nephew said this to me I did I goes I'm just going to stay in this job for 2 more years so I get some experience so I can then go and do this.

I said do it now. Yes. Yeah. I said you don't need any more experience. Like you need a different lens. You need a different perspective. That's what's going to make you stand out. You don't need more experience. Yes, I remember reading a Salim Ismail wrote this book called Exponential Organizations and it was in the early days of the rise of Uber, the rise of Airbnb and he was talking about how Airbnb in its first 5 years or 10 years had access to more real estate than hotel brands that had been around for 50 years to your point or Uber had access to more taxis and drivers than taxi companies had for decades and it was like instantly.

You know, we used to say this thing in in sort of like tech circles. We used to say this thing where you know Airbnb is the biggest hotel company with like no hotels. hotels. hotels. Yes, yes. Yes, yes. Yes, yes. And Uber's the biggest like transport company with no cars. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And ClassPass is the biggest fitness company with no gyms. Like we used to say this actually that with that came about when we when we started working on ClassPass. We were like what is this going to what iteration of the world is this going to be?

Oh, this is going to be the biggest fitness company with no gyms. gyms. gyms. Yes, exactly. Yeah and that's exactly what you're talking about. You have this get up and go attitude. What's been able to knock you down? A failure. You know, I failed multiple times. My first business Daisy had so I raised all that money for and Jimmy Iovine got behind it told me it was going to fail, but I didn't believe him when he told me that. It did fail and I remember like you know, I was living here in LA at that time and I just you know, I'd raised money from that was my first time raising real money and I'd raised so much money from people.

I was just really embarrassed to tell them it failed and I I was scared and I I just saw myself as a complete failure and I thought no one would ever believe in me again. Like I thought I was done. I thought it was over. My career was over and I was going to go and have to get a job in I don't know McDonald's or something. Like I just didn't know what the future held after that. And um I was also going through a breakdown of my marriage.

I was also going through a journey of infertility and in every way whether it was my business, whether it was my marriage, whether it was my body, I failed and my sister got diagnosed with um multiple sclerosis at that time and then later breast cancer. In every part of my life, I just felt nothing was working and I was a failure and I mean I mean I mean brings back so much emotion, but like yeah, I just felt like a total failure and then but I also was quite high in my profile.

Like I was in magazines, people were talking about me, you know, I was doing podcasts. So So I also felt like a massive imposter at that time cuz I was like I don't deserve any of these accolades, you know, I was Billboard Woman in Music. I was this, I was that and I just held women in tech and I was just like I'd gotten really good at selling to a point where I I didn't believe in myself. I hit rock bottom. I remember sitting in my closet in LA.

I just crumbled to the floor and I prayed. Um Um Um I'd started going to this amazing church here. It was called One Church LA. It's now called Potter's House and there was a pastor there, Pastor Touré who you met. met. met. Yeah, you introduced me. Yeah. And And And Wonderful man. amazing and I I always say like he like saved my life. Like I said at that time like he saved my life. And I remember just praying and this is going to sound but I'd never heard God's voice before.

voice before. voice before. Um ever and I I didn't think it was possible and I heard these words which were like were like were like nothing's going to change unless you change. And I genuinely and I see this in a lot of young people. They expect the whole world to change around them. But I'm this and I'm that and they validate to themselves who they are and what they are and the reason why they shouldn't change, but the whole world should change around them. Everyone's attitude should change like for them to be successful and I was one of those people.

I believed that I had this big profile. Yes, my business had failed. Yes, my marriage had failed. Yes, my body had failed. All these things in my life had failed, but I had this profile. So people should come to me and offer me jobs or whatever and no one was coming. No one was coming to offer me job. And then with my tail between my legs, I went back to Silicon Valley and started asking people for jobs. And by the way, at that point I was also managing Priyanka, but she hadn't taken off.

I'd spent like 7 years, you know, working working working and nothing had taken off. Everyone with any celebrity everybody always thinks the moment they took off was the moment it started. Yeah. But that's you know, really not the case. Like you know, you've got managers and talent working for years and she was you know, had this very successful career in India. So she was going back and forth, but I was sitting here like here like here like you know, banging away trying to make something happen.

So anyway, it was a really really tough time. I went back to Silicon Valley with my tail between my legs and I just I put my ego away and I asked for jobs. And eventually I got an entrepreneur in residence at Van Camp Trinity Venture Ventures. And within a couple of months, they offered me a partner role there. Um which was amazing. But in the meantime by the way, everyone was offering me money which I had no idea. People are like what's your next business? What's your next idea?

And I'd be like why would anyone trust me with money again? money again? money again? Yeah. And everyone kept telling me that my failure was going to make me. Like like everyone in Silicon Valley was like what are you talking about? Like I was so honest about my so I was so honest about my vulnerabilities. I was like why would you give me money when I just had a failed business? They were like did you not learn something from that? Yeah. Your next one will be better.

And you know, it's so funny only years later Yeah, only years later when Oh and then when Priyanka popped, I remember Jimmy called me and he goes I told you you were an album. So the hardest thing is when it all comes at once. Like for me like I was going through infertility. I was going through a broken marriage trying to pull it together. Didn't work. Who is someone I'd been with for like 19 years, you know, it wasn't like a short-term thing. I'd moved from continents with that person and now we're amazing friends and we you know, we still have an incredible relationship.

And then to have a business which was so publicly celebrated. I think that's the hardest thing, right? When something's publicly celebrated and it's failing and you know it's failing before anyone else does and you're going out to all these events and everyone's treating you like this really successful person and you're like I feel like a complete failure right now. And yeah, it was just it all came at once. And then I remember reading this beautiful quote and it said sometimes you feel like you're buried, but actually you've been planted.

And I definitely was planted. And I remember Pastor Touré talking about that saying that you feel buried, but actually you're and yeah, I I reshifted everything. I let go of my ego. I asked people for things. I asked for help. I told people I was vulnerable. Like I put everything out there right honestly which like 3 months before I was a different person. Yeah. But I decided to change because I'd got that message to change. Wow. So I changed everything. Where did you start? I started by asking people for jobs.

And then sadly, you know, I separated from my husband. That was the first that was separation. I changed everything. I uprooted everything. everything. everything. Um I lived in my friend's basement for 3 months. Everything changed, my surroundings, me, everything. I stripped myself down to nothing. I mean, that sounds like the most difficult and at the same time, as you said, planted moment. Where like, you're literally going through this moment where you're stripping away, changing everything, which is so unsettling to the identity. Because you're like, wait, my self-worth was I was married, my self-worth was I was a successful entrepreneur, my self-worth was maybe I'd be a mom one day or you know, whatever.

Yeah, and then all of a sudden all of that's changed. Because you got a shift. And so you're like, well, who am I now? I was so brave. Like, I can't even believe I did it. I literally changed everything. But I got those words and honestly, that those words were not me. Like, that wasn't me talking to myself. That And there was only in one other time that I feel like I've actually spoken to God God's spoken to me. You know, it hasn't happened again. I keep waiting for it to happen.

Hasn't happened again. But yeah, it was a very clear message. Yeah. Well, you kept mentioning destiny earlier as well and I was thinking that you know, when you think about depression and destiny, it's it's interesting that you've had those points in your life where you've also been able to trace, oh, that was destiny or that was destiny. I connected that and it's it's interesting that sometimes the unlock to those are in your lowest moments. Like, the unlock of that destiny, the unlock of that growth. I used to have a mentor who'd always tell me, he'd be like, Jay, you'll realize your potential when you're in pain.

Oh gosh, yeah. gosh, yeah. gosh, yeah. And I'd be like, oh no, man. I'm like proactive. I'm like, I was like, come on, man. Like, I'm like organized. I don't need pain to be organized. I don't need pain to be find my potential. I'm already winning. And then when I went through pain, I was like, oh, got it. Like, he was so right that it was it was pain that was the doorway to my potential. I didn't even know that I had a gear seven that I could lock into when I was in pain.

And it's And it's amazing because you think about it and you go, yeah, I thought I was going to break in that moment and that break was my breakthrough. Like, that moment that I thought everything was going to fall apart, that was the moment where everything start after change, after shift, not in a magical transcendental way, but in a way of like turning it around. Did you ever feel underestimated as a woman in business? And how did the infertility play into that world as well? Because I know there's so much judgement and shame and guilt around that both in our culture, both just in society in general.

I've always felt underestimated. underestimated. underestimated. Not in America. It's really weird. I felt underestimated my entire life growing up in England and all of that by family. I think my family really underestimated me. Because also I didn't do the whole, you know, um, very traditional for South Asians is like, I didn't do didn't do didn't do medicine. I didn't, you know, I didn't do, uh, you know, engineering. I didn't do all the traditional things that lead to success. So when I said I wanted to do a theater studies degree, everyone in my family like looked like, oh God, she's going to really amount to nothing, you know.

That was definitely something that was put on me. The only person that ever told me a counter story to that was my sister. My sister always believed in me and told me that I was going to be someone. Just got the chills as well. Yeah. Um, Yeah. Um, Yeah. Um, So yeah, I always felt underestimated. I think think think I didn't feel that way moving to America. It's funny. You know, America's like, I love America. Not right now with Trump, but in general I love America.

But um, I felt like this has really given me a place to, you know, I really believe in the American dream. Like, I think anyone can come [clears throat] here and succeed. And we've talked about this. Like, what we've done here, we don't think we could have done in England. England. England. Yeah. From the infertility side, you know, it's been a really long journey. Like, just beating myself up and you know, it's so funny. I was listening to Nick Jonas's song God Punch and there's a line in it that says where, how could I be so mean to myself or something?

I've been so mean to myself about it. I've felt like my body's completely failed me. And people would say to me all the time, like, oh, she didn't want to have children or children or children or and I don't want to get into why I didn't have children or, you know, whatever. But whatever. But whatever. But yeah, it's it's been it's been a tough journey. journey. journey. I think you just hit the nail on the head that head that head that we're all going through things, but it's how we talk to ourselves when we're going through those things that makes all the difference.

Yeah, cuz everyone we know in the world is going through something. And it's how they talk to themselves about it that has makes all the impact, makes all the difference. And difference. And difference. And I I absolutely agree. It's It's to me it's one of the most important skills is being able to talk to yourself in a way that pushes you forward and keeps you grounded without overhyping yourself, but hurting yourself. And I think we kind of only know how to do both. Like, look, I know how to hype myself up before this meeting.

Or I need to hurt myself when I'm doing something wrong. And we don't know how to help ourselves and actually have this healthy inner dialogue, which is healing conversation and compassionate and empathetic and connected and But I have a question for you actually. Can I do this? course. course. course. I don't know how you were raised exactly. I've heard some of your stories, but we were generally we were raised quite tough, right? Like, all the racism I dealt with, I didn't come home and talk to my parents about it because they were dealing with it themselves, right?

And they didn't have the tools to deal with it themselves. So then, you know, I spent my whole life all my relatives saying, oh, you're going to, you know, you're going to be the trashman, you're going to be this, you're going to be that, you're going to amount to nothing because I wasn't good at school. I was terrible at school. Um, so we've grown up with all of this like negative talk at us telling us that we're not going to amount to anything. And here we are.

Yeah. I amounted to quite a lot and done pretty well for ourselves, right? And and so now I'm like so confused about this. this. this. where you're going with this. Yeah, cuz I see all of these parents, all my friends friends friends egging their kids on, only giving their kids positive like all this good stuff. And I'm like, you know, are they going to have any grit? Are they going to be able to survive in the real world? Like, I know I'm so curious. curious. curious.

question. And then I think of myself and I'm really good at talking to myself like I'm really good at beating myself up. I'm I'm the best at it, right? And if I don't do something the way my expectation of myself is, I'll like really have a go at myself. And but then I'm sometimes I wonder, is that what makes me successful? Is that what makes me driven? You know, so I'm curious, how does one deal with all of that? So I think a lot of successful people in the world today are successful because of their trauma.

And what happens then is you can't even be happy in your success. Because you were doing it to prove someone else wrong. Or you were doing it to prove yourself right or you were doing it to show people what you could do. And I'm not saying you, I'm just saying in general. No, no, I'm definitely that person. No, no, and then no, no, and then what happens with that is you can't even be happy with your success because you know this as well as I do.

Just because you now become successful, no one not everyone turns around who hated on you and goes, well done, you know, you really No one's going to do that because everyone's busy living their own lives. Like, no one really was anyway. So I think at one point that trauma has to transform into purpose, into mission, which which is what yours is. You're being harsh on yourself. Like, yours is always a Oh no, I love to beat myself up. up. up. Yours is always a mission. It was purpose-driven.

You wanted to You wanted to make a shift and a change for people that look like you and felt like you and came from where you were. But I agree with you and that's what I was saying, the opposite of what we're seeing now is mollycoddling, hyping. And that doesn't do anything for you because now there's no challenge. And so what we really need is challenge love, challenge love. It's like when Jimmy saw you fail and he and you were already embarrassed and upset that you failed and he said, no, you're an album, not a single.

That was love when you failed. Yeah. So when we fail, you need to be held. But you still hold yourself to high standards. And so the way I look at it is, we've got to help young people and everyone, but we have to help young people and ourselves hold ourselves to high standards high standards high standards and then have high grace when it goes wrong. Because if you don't have the high grace when it goes wrong, the best example of this was, um, Roger Federer talked about this at Dartmouth at his commencement speech at the university.

the university. the university. And he said that when I'm playing a point, it's the most important point in the world. Mm. He goes, as soon as I win or lose the point, it is the least important point in the world. Like, I have to play the point like my life depends on it. And as soon as that point is over, I've got to move on to the next point. Cuz if I'm thinking about that last point, I'm not going to be able to play this point and then I'm going to lose the next point again.

And he was just like, that's the only way. And I think it's more about, rather than hype and encouragement, it's more about teaching people to be present and teaching people to have high standards. And then teaching people that, hey, if you failed once, like in Silicon Valley, all right, just what's your next idea? Let's go. So I don't think it's like, oh, you're amazing. Don't worry. Like, you know, Jimmy wasn't like, you're amazing. You're so special. And this was just a tough moment in the It wasn't like It was like, no, you failed, but let's go again.

You know, and I think that's the mindset that we need is not mollycoddling and fake loving and over fake compassion, which only makes people weaker. Yeah. You know, and it would have done that to you. So anyway, I don't know if that makes sense, but No, it does. I mean, it's a thing I, you know, I battle with also. Like, you know, my therapist always says to me, Angela, could you be more compassionate to yourself? And I'm like, but then what happens to my ambition if I was more compassionate to myself?

Like, I got to beat myself up when I fail so that I Yeah. Do better next time. Like, I don't know. It's I get it. I I get it. And I And I think it's And that's what I'm saying, you have to have high standards. If you don't have high standards, you'll never achieve anything great. Yeah. But then you have to have high grace because that actually What it does What high grace does is your rebound time is quicker. So if you have high standards, but then you have high hatred for yourself, you actually can beat yourself up for longer and kind of stay in that dark place.

Whereas if you have a high grace period, then you're like, all right, let's rebound. Like, so you rebound. But I get what you're saying, too. Like, I have high standards. I'm I'm harsh on myself. I'm not I'm not easy on myself. I've just learned to talk to myself as a coach and a mentor would talk to me, not as a hateful person would talk to me. Yeah. think there's a difference in that. It's like if my coach saw me perform badly, I played a lot of sport growing up, uh had a had a lot of coaches in other areas of my life.

Like my coaches would never just be like, "You suck. You're the worst." Like they would never say that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But they'd be like, "Jay, did you notice that you were 1 in away from where it would have been great?" Yeah. Like they would point to the detail of improvement. They wouldn't point to like, "Oh, you suck. You're the worst. That was the worst performance." Like they would never say stuff like that. So I think it's being your own mentor. Just as you would never have said that to Payal or never have said that to Priyanka or, you know, you would have just pivoted.

Yeah. I mean, it's funny now though. So now I'm um with my fiance Faon Ahmed who is running for assembly in district 66, New York City, by the way. way. way. Oh, wow. Amazing. That's incredible. But he's been a firefighter, as you know, for like 20 20 years. And what's so interesting now, whenever like is he's really shifted my perspective on life, right? Because before I would be like really in the moment of like, "Oh my god, I failed or this happened or that happened." And now like that saying of like, "Well, you're not We're not saving lives, you know." [clears throat] Now that's really Yeah.

Now that's really meaningful. Like that whole phrase, I mean, he just retired to to running politics, but like prior to that like, you know, I spent We'd been together like 4 years. And you know, four nights of every week I would just don't know if he's coming home the next day, you know? And every night before I'd go to bed, I'd make him text me and tell me that he's safe so far, but I didn't know waking up in the morning if he'd still be there.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Wow. Wow. So it's a lot of anxiety. Yeah, a lot of anxiety. So that's actually sort of shifted a lot of my perspective on my anxiety about my failures or whatever. Like it's it's this has been really meaningful journey. Yeah, that's beautiful. I love your relationship and I'm so happy to hear how he's having all this beautiful impact on you. It's nice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. to hear. And we You've been amazing. I mean, talking to you about the wins, the successes. You've given great great business advice.

We've learned how to network from you. We've learned how to be more convincing, persuasive. We've learned how to never give up and at the same time learned about the human behind all of it. We end every episode of On Purpose with a final five. These questions have to be answered in one sentence maximum. Uh so Angela Ahrendt, these are your final five. Oh my god. The The first question is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received? Yes. Uh if you want to raise money, um ask for advice.

And if you want advice, ask for money. I like that. That's really I'm going to use that now. Uh question number two, what is the worst advice you've ever heard or received? To stay on one track, one path, and never pivot, and you'll get to your goal eventually. Great answer. Uh question number three, what's something that you used to value that you don't value anymore? value anymore? value anymore? People's opinions. People's opinions. People's opinions. No, I I used Yeah, I used to really value what people would say about me, and now I don't so much.

Question number four, what's something that you didn't value before that you deeply value now? My alone time. Interesting. Yeah, my alone time used to scare me so much. I used to hate being alone. And I think that's a lot of childhood trauma and a lot of things. So he's one sentence, but um [clears throat] [clears throat] [clears throat] yeah, now I I I really love it. Now it's something I crave. That's a beautiful thing to get comfortable with, isn't it? That time alone. me forever. Yeah.

Well, you're doing good. Yeah, finally. Yeah. Uh fifth and final question, we ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? To approach everything with love and kindness. Yeah, the golden rule. Like I bet everyone says that, right? No. Um No. Um No. Um Okay, good. Okay, good. Okay, good. Yeah. Imagine the world how it would be if everyone approached everything with love and kindness. Totally. And And I think that's actually goes back to what we talked about.

The reason why we struggle to approach other people with love and kindness is because we don't know how to be with ourselves with love and kindness. Totally. Because we're harsh on ourselves, we're harsh on everyone outside of ourselves. So all of that pain is coming from within. It's not coming from we hate everyone and we love ourselves. It's actually coming from We hate ourselves. Exactly. And then we're putting it out there. And so that loving kindness requires That's why that inner dialogue is so important and so Angela Ahrendt, you were uh amazing.

Thank you so much. One of my heroes. I'm so grateful for you. I can't wait to see what you go off and do next. Can't wait for you to find your mentor through this. I know. Usually people come on here trying to find a partner. You already have that. So I'm like like like Usually that's what people announce, but I'm like I'm like I'm like Okay, applications welcome. If you you can mentor me, please reach out to On Purpose. I love it. I love it. it.

it. What's the email? Yeah. Everyone who's been listening or watching, make sure you go and follow And on Instagram, where she does share parts of her journey. And if you don't already, go and check out her businesses. We will put the websites and the links in the comment section. Should you wish to apply, should you wish to ask her to be your mentor, should you wish to do whatever you want to do, we will put them there so you can check them out. And again, thank you so much for being such a dear friend, an inspiration, and uh being here with so much love and kindness as well, and being so open.

Love you. Love you, too. Thank you. If you're ready to take control of your finances, create freedom on your own terms, you want to hear my conversation with Cody Sanchez. If you want to be successful today is that there's really there's two type of people. One type of person will be really successful, and one type of person will never be successful until they change their mentality. And And we call these fixers versus dreamers.