The Best Vitality & Health Protocols | Dr. Rhonda Patrick

There's lots of data now showing that There's lots of data now showing that people that are doing these like short people that are doing these like short people that are doing these like short bursts at least a minute long but up to bursts at least a minute long but up to bursts at least a minute long but up to three minutes they're moving faster with three minutes they're moving faster with three minutes they're moving faster with intent and it's having outsiz effects on intent and it's having outsiz effects on intent and it's having outsiz effects on on health outcome. So for example on health outcome. So for example on health outcome. So for example individuals that do on the high end so individuals that do on the high end so individuals that do on the high end so they're doing you know 3 minutes of this they're doing you know 3 minutes of this they're doing you know 3 minutes of this short burst of an unstructured type of short burst of an unstructured type of short burst of an unstructured type of exercise snack and they do it three exercise snack and they do it three exercise snack and they do it three times a day. So it's a total of 9 times a day. So it's a total of 9 times a day. So it's a total of 9 minutes a day. Okay, that's associated minutes a day. Okay, that's associated minutes a day. Okay, that's associated with a 40% reduction in all-c causeed with a 40% reduction in all-c causeed with a 40% reduction in all-c causeed mortality, 40% reduction in cancer mortality, 40% reduction in cancer mortality, 40% reduction in cancer related mortality, a 50% reduction in related mortality, a 50% reduction in related mortality, a 50% reduction in cardiovascular related mortality. Wow. cardiovascular related mortality. Wow. cardiovascular related mortality. Wow. >> 9 minutes a day. >> 9 minutes a day. >> 9 minutes a day. >> Welcome to the Hubberman Lab podcast >> Welcome to the Hubberman Lab podcast >> Welcome to the Hubberman Lab podcast where we discuss science and where we discuss science and where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life. I'm Andrew Huberman and I'm a professor I'm Andrew Huberman and I'm a professor of neurobiology and opthalmology at of neurobiology and opthalmology at of neurobiology and opthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. My guest Stanford School of Medicine. My guest Stanford School of Medicine. My guest today is Dr. Dr. Rhonda Patrick, a today is Dr. Dr. Rhonda Patrick, a today is Dr. Dr. Rhonda Patrick, a biomedical scientist and leading public biomedical scientist and leading public biomedical scientist and leading public health educator. For over a decade, health educator. For over a decade, health educator. For over a decade, Rhonda has been one of the most trusted Rhonda has been one of the most trusted Rhonda has been one of the most trusted voices in building science-based health voices in building science-based health voices in building science-based health protocols. Today, we discuss what the protocols. Today, we discuss what the protocols. Today, we discuss what the latest and best research says we should latest and best research says we should latest and best research says we should all be doing to improve our health and all be doing to improve our health and all be doing to improve our health and vitality and avoid disease. Rhonda vitality and avoid disease. Rhonda vitality and avoid disease. Rhonda shares with us her exact exercise, shares with us her exact exercise, shares with us her exact exercise, nutrition, supplementation, and sauna nutrition, supplementation, and sauna nutrition, supplementation, and sauna protocols. And we get really detailed protocols. And we get really detailed protocols. And we get really detailed about the mechanisms and logic behind about the mechanisms and logic behind about the mechanisms and logic behind each one. We also discussed the things each one. We also discussed the things each one. We also discussed the things that science say you can do to that science say you can do to that science say you can do to significantly reduce your cancer and significantly reduce your cancer and significantly reduce your cancer and cardiovascular risk, including how to cardiovascular risk, including how to cardiovascular risk, including how to reduce visceral fat and arterial plaque. reduce visceral fat and arterial plaque. reduce visceral fat and arterial plaque. Today's discussion truly leaves no stone Today's discussion truly leaves no stone Today's discussion truly leaves no stone unturned. We discuss how eating can unturned. We discuss how eating can unturned. We discuss how eating can increase inflammation, believe it or increase inflammation, believe it or increase inflammation, believe it or not, ways to support your gut health, not, ways to support your gut health, not, ways to support your gut health, creatine, vitamin D, why broad vitamin creatine, vitamin D, why broad vitamin creatine, vitamin D, why broad vitamin and mineral and fiber support is and mineral and fiber support is and mineral and fiber support is crucial, as well as the different forms crucial, as well as the different forms crucial, as well as the different forms of magnesium and each of their unique of magnesium and each of their unique of magnesium and each of their unique effects. We also discuss omega-3s and effects. We also discuss omega-3s and effects. We also discuss omega-3s and why prescription sources of omega-3s may why prescription sources of omega-3s may why prescription sources of omega-3s may be the cleanest and most cost-sufficient be the cleanest and most cost-sufficient be the cleanest and most cost-sufficient way to obtain sufficient omega-3 intake. way to obtain sufficient omega-3 intake. way to obtain sufficient omega-3 intake. We also discuss the importance of We also discuss the importance of We also discuss the importance of prioritizing regular resistance training prioritizing regular resistance training prioritizing regular resistance training and hit workouts over protein. You still and hit workouts over protein. You still and hit workouts over protein. You still need protein, but emphasizing the need protein, but emphasizing the need protein, but emphasizing the exercise component is crucial. And we exercise component is crucial. And we exercise component is crucial. And we discuss fiber, micronutrients, and why discuss fiber, micronutrients, and why discuss fiber, micronutrients, and why short-term fasting can be beneficial. short-term fasting can be beneficial. short-term fasting can be beneficial. Dr. Dr. Rhonda Patrick is a true wealth Dr. Dr. Rhonda Patrick is a true wealth Dr. Dr. Rhonda Patrick is a true wealth of knowledge and today she generously of knowledge and today she generously of knowledge and today she generously provides us a master class on how you provides us a master class on how you provides us a master class on how you can design and adjust the exact health can design and adjust the exact health can design and adjust the exact health protocols to meet your specific needs. protocols to meet your specific needs. protocols to meet your specific needs. Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my that this podcast is separate from my that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford. teaching and research roles at Stanford. teaching and research roles at Stanford. It is however part of my desire and It is however part of my desire and It is however part of my desire and effort to bring zerocost to consumer effort to bring zerocost to consumer effort to bring zerocost to consumer information about science and science information about science and science information about science and science related tools to the general public. In related tools to the general public. In related tools to the general public. In keeping with that theme, today's episode keeping with that theme, today's episode keeping with that theme, today's episode does include sponsors. And now for my does include sponsors. And now for my does include sponsors. And now for my discussion with Dr. Rhonda Patrick. discussion with Dr. Rhonda Patrick. discussion with Dr. Rhonda Patrick. Welcome back, Dr. Ronda Patrick. Welcome back, Dr. Ronda Patrick. Welcome back, Dr. Ronda Patrick. >> Excited to be here. >> Excited to be here. >> Excited to be here. >> It's been a while. I'm so excited. >> It's been a while. I'm so excited. >> It's been a while. I'm so excited. There's so much to go into. And I'll There's so much to go into. And I'll There's so much to go into. And I'll start off the same way I started last start off the same way I started last start off the same way I started last time because it's even more true. Thank time because it's even more true. Thank time because it's even more true. Thank you for being first person into this you for being first person into this you for being first person into this public science health education public science health education public science health education business. I don't know if everyone's business. I don't know if everyone's business. I don't know if everyone's aware of it, but you were the first aware of it, but you were the first aware of it, but you were the first person in, which is why I didn't say person in, which is why I didn't say person in, which is why I didn't say first man in because the first person in first man in because the first person in first man in because the first person in was and is a woman. and you've done a was and is a woman. and you've done a was and is a woman. and you've done a marvelous job of educating people on marvelous job of educating people on marvelous job of educating people on science, how to parse papers and data, science, how to parse papers and data, science, how to parse papers and data, health practices, and um you know, the health practices, and um you know, the health practices, and um you know, the rest of us are just trying to follow in rest of us are just trying to follow in rest of us are just trying to follow in your wake. So, thank you very much. I your wake. So, thank you very much. I your wake. So, thank you very much. I just want to thank you for being first. just want to thank you for being first. just want to thank you for being first. >> Oh, man. Thank you so much for that. And >> Oh, man. Thank you so much for that. And >> Oh, man. Thank you so much for that. And also, thank you for doing what you do. I also, thank you for doing what you do. I also, thank you for doing what you do. I mean, you really do a great service for mean, you really do a great service for mean, you really do a great service for science, communication, um you know, science, communication, um you know, science, communication, um you know, education, helping people love science education, helping people love science education, helping people love science and get healthier. and get healthier. and get healthier. >> Well, thank you. Well, uh you're the >> Well, thank you. Well, uh you're the >> Well, thank you. Well, uh you're the pioneer. It's not always easy being a pioneer. It's not always easy being a pioneer. It's not always easy being a pioneer, but we all benefit. So, pioneer, but we all benefit. So, pioneer, but we all benefit. So, let's jump in at exercise because um let's jump in at exercise because um let's jump in at exercise because um lately you've actually been posting your lately you've actually been posting your lately you've actually been posting your workouts, which is awesome. And uh workouts, which is awesome. And uh workouts, which is awesome. And uh you're clearly very fit. I learned you're clearly very fit. I learned you're clearly very fit. I learned before talking to you today that uh you before talking to you today that uh you before talking to you today that uh you were a competitive athlete. You were a were a competitive athlete. You were a were a competitive athlete. You were a long jumper or triple jumper. long jumper or triple jumper. long jumper or triple jumper. >> I was a long jumper, but I would say my >> I was a long jumper, but I would say my >> I was a long jumper, but I would say my real competitive athleteness comes from real competitive athleteness comes from real competitive athleteness comes from my jump roping. my jump roping. my jump roping. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> On a professional jump roping team. >> On a professional jump roping team. >> On a professional jump roping team. >> Professional. >> Professional. >> Professional. >> Yes. Yeah, it was it was we would >> Yes. Yeah, it was it was we would >> Yes. Yeah, it was it was we would compete. So I my friend and I started compete. So I my friend and I started compete. So I my friend and I started the team when we were in second grade the team when we were in second grade the team when we were in second grade and it was called the San Diego Sands and it was called the San Diego Sands and it was called the San Diego Sands Skippers. It was part of the Skippers. It was part of the Skippers. It was part of the International Rope Skipping Organization International Rope Skipping Organization International Rope Skipping Organization which was actually started by her uncle which was actually started by her uncle which was actually started by her uncle but there's jump rope teams all around but there's jump rope teams all around but there's jump rope teams all around the world and you know now I think the world and you know now I think the world and you know now I think there's a new name but like it got taken there's a new name but like it got taken there's a new name but like it got taken over by the Universal jump rope team or over by the Universal jump rope team or over by the Universal jump rope team or something like that. I don't know something like that. I don't know something like that. I don't know exactly what it is but um so I was on a exactly what it is but um so I was on a exactly what it is but um so I was on a team and every year we would compete in team and every year we would compete in team and every year we would compete in in Boulder, Colorado. There was in Boulder, Colorado. There was in Boulder, Colorado. There was competitions for all kinds of, you know, competitions for all kinds of, you know, competitions for all kinds of, you know, jumping rope and um I would perform and jumping rope and um I would perform and jumping rope and um I would perform and start jump rope teams around the school start jump rope teams around the school start jump rope teams around the school around different schools in San Diego. around different schools in San Diego. around different schools in San Diego. So I I used to get out of school um you So I I used to get out of school um you So I I used to get out of school um you know get out of school free card and uh know get out of school free card and uh know get out of school free card and uh my partner and I would go and and start my partner and I would go and and start my partner and I would go and and start um do workshops at other schools and um do workshops at other schools and um do workshops at other schools and help them start jump rope teams and the help them start jump rope teams and the help them start jump rope teams and the idea was cardiovascular health, healthy idea was cardiovascular health, healthy idea was cardiovascular health, healthy heart and uh yeah so so that's really I heart and uh yeah so so that's really I heart and uh yeah so so that's really I would say my my my roots with uh being a would say my my my roots with uh being a would say my my my roots with uh being a competitive athlete. Awesome. I love competitive athlete. Awesome. I love competitive athlete. Awesome. I love skipping rope. Is it okay to say skipping rope. Is it okay to say skipping rope. Is it okay to say skipping rope or is jumping rope the skipping rope or is jumping rope the skipping rope or is jumping rope the >> Okay, >> Okay, >> Okay, >> skipping rope. Jumping rope. >> skipping rope. Jumping rope. >> skipping rope. Jumping rope. >> And actually, it's a great opportunity >> And actually, it's a great opportunity >> And actually, it's a great opportunity for me to ask you what your thoughts are for me to ask you what your thoughts are for me to ask you what your thoughts are about um exercise that isn't just about um exercise that isn't just about um exercise that isn't just linear, right? I know like real jump linear, right? I know like real jump linear, right? I know like real jump ropers can do crossovers and um and ropers can do crossovers and um and ropers can do crossovers and um and these days I'm seeing a lot more about these days I'm seeing a lot more about these days I'm seeing a lot more about rope flow. I think it's David Week and rope flow. I think it's David Week and rope flow. I think it's David Week and others online are, you know, stuff others online are, you know, stuff others online are, you know, stuff that's getting people out of the that's getting people out of the that's getting people out of the standard, you know, curls, bench standard, you know, curls, bench standard, you know, curls, bench presses, lunges, you know, and getting presses, lunges, you know, and getting presses, lunges, you know, and getting movements that are more just, for lack movements that are more just, for lack movements that are more just, for lack of a better term, across the body. Do of a better term, across the body. Do of a better term, across the body. Do you think there's something to that in you think there's something to that in you think there's something to that in terms of real physical benefits? I mean, terms of real physical benefits? I mean, terms of real physical benefits? I mean, I imagine there is. I imagine there is. I imagine there is. >> Sure. I mean, I wouldn't be the expert >> Sure. I mean, I wouldn't be the expert >> Sure. I mean, I wouldn't be the expert to be able to give you a good answer on to be able to give you a good answer on to be able to give you a good answer on that, but I do think that jumping rope that, but I do think that jumping rope that, but I do think that jumping rope in general has unique benefits in in general has unique benefits in in general has unique benefits in addition to obviously it's a great addition to obviously it's a great addition to obviously it's a great cardiovascular exercise. You're getting cardiovascular exercise. You're getting cardiovascular exercise. You're getting the weightbearing aspects as well for the weightbearing aspects as well for the weightbearing aspects as well for building bone density. And I think that building bone density. And I think that building bone density. And I think that earlier for me, you know, I was doing it earlier for me, you know, I was doing it earlier for me, you know, I was doing it as a a young girl. So important, right? as a a young girl. So important, right? as a a young girl. So important, right? because you're kind of banking that that because you're kind of banking that that because you're kind of banking that that bone density early on, which is bone density early on, which is bone density early on, which is important because at some point, you important because at some point, you important because at some point, you know, menopause will hit and and uh know, menopause will hit and and uh know, menopause will hit and and uh estrogen goes down and and so you start estrogen goes down and and so you start estrogen goes down and and so you start to lose more bone. But um yeah, I'm sure to lose more bone. But um yeah, I'm sure to lose more bone. But um yeah, I'm sure there's a lot of benefits to jumping there's a lot of benefits to jumping there's a lot of benefits to jumping rope beyond what I'm describing as rope beyond what I'm describing as rope beyond what I'm describing as cardiovascular benefits and bone cardiovascular benefits and bone cardiovascular benefits and bone benefits that someone else could answer. benefits that someone else could answer. benefits that someone else could answer. >> I'm certainly going to get back to >> I'm certainly going to get back to >> I'm certainly going to get back to jumping rope now that we, you know, jumping rope now that we, you know, jumping rope now that we, you know, resurrected it in this conversation. And resurrected it in this conversation. And resurrected it in this conversation. And I have to say, um, uh, bone density I have to say, um, uh, bone density I have to say, um, uh, bone density measurements aside, you have awesome measurements aside, you have awesome measurements aside, you have awesome posture. I noticed people's posture. Oh, posture. I noticed people's posture. Oh, posture. I noticed people's posture. Oh, really? really? really? >> Yeah. I didn't didn't mean to put you on >> Yeah. I didn't didn't mean to put you on >> Yeah. I didn't didn't mean to put you on the spot here, but yeah. When I walked the spot here, but yeah. When I walked the spot here, but yeah. When I walked in, I was like, if you ever interacted in, I was like, if you ever interacted in, I was like, if you ever interacted with Rhonda in person, which I I have, with Rhonda in person, which I I have, with Rhonda in person, which I I have, you have amazing posture, and these you have amazing posture, and these you have amazing posture, and these days, good posture is rare. So, who days, good posture is rare. So, who days, good posture is rare. So, who knows? Maybe the things uh are related. knows? Maybe the things uh are related. knows? Maybe the things uh are related. I imagine they probably are. Bone health I imagine they probably are. Bone health I imagine they probably are. Bone health and posture and so forth. In terms of and posture and so forth. In terms of and posture and so forth. In terms of the sorts of exercise that people are the sorts of exercise that people are the sorts of exercise that people are more familiar with, what's your routine more familiar with, what's your routine more familiar with, what's your routine look like? and what sorts of things in look like? and what sorts of things in look like? and what sorts of things in your routine are non-negotiables and your routine are non-negotiables and your routine are non-negotiables and where's the place for experimentation where's the place for experimentation where's the place for experimentation and kind of what you're exploring now. and kind of what you're exploring now. and kind of what you're exploring now. >> So for me, exercise is part of my >> So for me, exercise is part of my >> So for me, exercise is part of my personal hygiene as you and I were personal hygiene as you and I were personal hygiene as you and I were discussing it. It really is a discussing it. It really is a discussing it. It really is a non-negotiable. I absolutely have to do non-negotiable. I absolutely have to do non-negotiable. I absolutely have to do exercise just like I have to brush my exercise just like I have to brush my exercise just like I have to brush my teeth. And um you know I kind of got teeth. And um you know I kind of got teeth. And um you know I kind of got that from Dr. Dr. Ben Lavine, who's a that from Dr. Dr. Ben Lavine, who's a that from Dr. Dr. Ben Lavine, who's a probably one of the world leading probably one of the world leading probably one of the world leading cardiovascular exercise physiologists. cardiovascular exercise physiologists. cardiovascular exercise physiologists. He's at UT Southwest in Dallas. Just He's at UT Southwest in Dallas. Just He's at UT Southwest in Dallas. Just want to shout out his name because I've want to shout out his name because I've want to shout out his name because I've really learned a lot from him. But the really learned a lot from him. But the really learned a lot from him. But the non-negotiables for me really are non-negotiables for me really are non-negotiables for me really are getting cardiovascular exercise and getting cardiovascular exercise and getting cardiovascular exercise and getting my my resistance training. So, getting my my resistance training. So, getting my my resistance training. So, building muscle, maintaining muscle building muscle, maintaining muscle building muscle, maintaining muscle strength as well. So, my routine for me, strength as well. So, my routine for me, strength as well. So, my routine for me, I work out probably about 5 to six hours I work out probably about 5 to six hours I work out probably about 5 to six hours a week. And those workouts, I largely am a week. And those workouts, I largely am a week. And those workouts, I largely am doing a combination of high-intensity doing a combination of high-intensity doing a combination of high-intensity interval training that's not necessarily interval training that's not necessarily interval training that's not necessarily like the Norwegian 4x4 where I'm going like the Norwegian 4x4 where I'm going like the Norwegian 4x4 where I'm going as hard as I can for one minute or four as hard as I can for one minute or four as hard as I can for one minute or four minutes and then recovering for three minutes and then recovering for three minutes and then recovering for three minutes and doing that four times. minutes and doing that four times. minutes and doing that four times. That's really, you know, the Norwegian That's really, you know, the Norwegian That's really, you know, the Norwegian 4x4 is a hard workout. Um, it's really 4x4 is a hard workout. Um, it's really 4x4 is a hard workout. Um, it's really good for improving your cardior fitness, good for improving your cardior fitness, good for improving your cardior fitness, which I think is one of the best markers which I think is one of the best markers which I think is one of the best markers for longevity. We can talk about that. for longevity. We can talk about that. for longevity. We can talk about that. Um, I do a lot of, you know, it's a it's Um, I do a lot of, you know, it's a it's Um, I do a lot of, you know, it's a it's a mixture of doing, a mixture of doing, a mixture of doing, you know, rowing machine, getting on the you know, rowing machine, getting on the you know, rowing machine, getting on the assault bike, and then doing mix it in assault bike, and then doing mix it in assault bike, and then doing mix it in mixing it in with lifting weights, doing mixing it in with lifting weights, doing mixing it in with lifting weights, doing some deadlifts, you know, doing squats. some deadlifts, you know, doing squats. some deadlifts, you know, doing squats. Um, so it's really for me a Um, so it's really for me a Um, so it's really for me a non-negotiable to to do my my vigorous non-negotiable to to do my my vigorous non-negotiable to to do my my vigorous intensity exercise is what I would call intensity exercise is what I would call intensity exercise is what I would call it. So, you're really kind of getting it. So, you're really kind of getting it. So, you're really kind of getting your heart rate up to, you know, 80% max your heart rate up to, you know, 80% max your heart rate up to, you know, 80% max heart rate at at points. Not always, but heart rate at at points. Not always, but heart rate at at points. Not always, but especially during the intervals. I would especially during the intervals. I would especially during the intervals. I would say that's a non-negotiable for me. say that's a non-negotiable for me. say that's a non-negotiable for me. >> How many days a week are you doing that? >> How many days a week are you doing that? >> How many days a week are you doing that? >> I do my my longer hit workouts. So, I >> I do my my longer hit workouts. So, I >> I do my my longer hit workouts. So, I have four days a week where I'm doing at have four days a week where I'm doing at have four days a week where I'm doing at least an hour. So, two of those two of least an hour. So, two of those two of least an hour. So, two of those two of those sessions are more of a CrossFit those sessions are more of a CrossFit those sessions are more of a CrossFit type of training where I'll do the first type of training where I'll do the first type of training where I'll do the first 30 minutes will be strength training. 30 minutes will be strength training. 30 minutes will be strength training. So, I'll just be lifting heavier with So, I'll just be lifting heavier with So, I'll just be lifting heavier with like, you know, fewer reps. What's the like, you know, fewer reps. What's the like, you know, fewer reps. What's the rest between sets? Sorry to get rest between sets? Sorry to get rest between sets? Sorry to get granular, but people will wonder. granular, but people will wonder. granular, but people will wonder. >> What's funny is I typically rest about 2 >> What's funny is I typically rest about 2 >> What's funny is I typically rest about 2 minutes between my sets. I I I recover minutes between my sets. I I I recover minutes between my sets. I I I recover pretty quick. pretty quick. pretty quick. >> Um, and my co I do it with a coach and >> Um, and my co I do it with a coach and >> Um, and my co I do it with a coach and my coach usually tells me that I'm spot my coach usually tells me that I'm spot my coach usually tells me that I'm spot on. I'm like ready to go and it's been on. I'm like ready to go and it's been on. I'm like ready to go and it's been about 2 minutes. about 2 minutes. about 2 minutes. >> So I I usually that's my recovery time. >> So I I usually that's my recovery time. >> So I I usually that's my recovery time. >> And so the first 30 minutes is strength >> And so the first 30 minutes is strength >> And so the first 30 minutes is strength training and that'll be like deadlifts. training and that'll be like deadlifts. training and that'll be like deadlifts. It'll be you know squats. I'll be It'll be you know squats. I'll be It'll be you know squats. I'll be cleaning. I'll be doing front squats. cleaning. I'll be doing front squats. cleaning. I'll be doing front squats. Sometimes I do barbell or back squats, Sometimes I do barbell or back squats, Sometimes I do barbell or back squats, right? like it's a mixture of different right? like it's a mixture of different right? like it's a mixture of different types of strength training. types of strength training. types of strength training. >> And then the last 30 minutes is more of >> And then the last 30 minutes is more of >> And then the last 30 minutes is more of a high-intensity interval training a high-intensity interval training a high-intensity interval training session session. So it'll be like, session session. So it'll be like, session session. So it'll be like, >> you know, where I'm I'm getting my heart >> you know, where I'm I'm getting my heart >> you know, where I'm I'm getting my heart rate up. So I'm mixing in the row rate up. So I'm mixing in the row rate up. So I'm mixing in the row machine and then I have like maybe I'm machine and then I have like maybe I'm machine and then I have like maybe I'm doing cleans but they're lighter, right? doing cleans but they're lighter, right? doing cleans but they're lighter, right? So it's like more reps but lighter load, So it's like more reps but lighter load, So it's like more reps but lighter load, right? So right? So right? So >> um that's I do that twice a week and >> um that's I do that twice a week and >> um that's I do that twice a week and that each is an hour session. And then I that each is an hour session. And then I that each is an hour session. And then I do also twice a week about an hour and do also twice a week about an hour and do also twice a week about an hour and 20 minutes of it's also more high 20 minutes of it's also more high 20 minutes of it's also more high intensity but I have more recovery time intensity but I have more recovery time intensity but I have more recovery time cuz I'm doing with my girlfriends and we cuz I'm doing with my girlfriends and we cuz I'm doing with my girlfriends and we kind of chitchat a little bit and so um kind of chitchat a little bit and so um kind of chitchat a little bit and so um but it's a very similar we do you know but it's a very similar we do you know but it's a very similar we do you know rowing machine assault bikes we do the rowing machine assault bikes we do the rowing machine assault bikes we do the skier you know Rogue has that skier skier you know Rogue has that skier skier you know Rogue has that skier >> and then we mix it in with you know >> and then we mix it in with you know >> and then we mix it in with you know chest presses and we do you know chest presses and we do you know chest presses and we do you know assisted pull-ups and we do you know assisted pull-ups and we do you know assisted pull-ups and we do you know lighter squats with like larger you know lighter squats with like larger you know lighter squats with like larger you know more reps. Mhm. more reps. Mhm. more reps. Mhm. >> So that's another, you know, two hours a >> So that's another, you know, two hours a >> So that's another, you know, two hours a week. So I have four hours a week of week. So I have four hours a week of week. So I have four hours a week of just doing a lot of that sort of just doing a lot of that sort of just doing a lot of that sort of CrossFit HIT type of training. And then CrossFit HIT type of training. And then CrossFit HIT type of training. And then I mix that in with my more like runs I mix that in with my more like runs I mix that in with my more like runs that I do, which I would say are that I do, which I would say are that I do, which I would say are >> still they're still considered vigorous >> still they're still considered vigorous >> still they're still considered vigorous intensity. They're just not quite as intensity. They're just not quite as intensity. They're just not quite as high intensity. And I I do probably I high intensity. And I I do probably I high intensity. And I I do probably I run in like maybe six miles a week. So run in like maybe six miles a week. So run in like maybe six miles a week. So maybe maybe at at my max, but these days maybe maybe at at my max, but these days maybe maybe at at my max, but these days I'm mostly running probably four like I'm mostly running probably four like I'm mostly running probably four like four miles a week. four miles a week. four miles a week. >> So um those runs tend to be like >> So um those runs tend to be like >> So um those runs tend to be like sometimes they're two miles, sometimes sometimes they're two miles, sometimes sometimes they're two miles, sometimes they're three miles. And you know, they're three miles. And you know, they're three miles. And you know, >> you enjoy running. >> you enjoy running. >> you enjoy running. >> I do. I do. And I think it's important >> I do. I do. And I think it's important >> I do. I do. And I think it's important as well. And sometimes I'll run with my as well. And sometimes I'll run with my as well. And sometimes I'll run with my husband and we just kind of like chill husband and we just kind of like chill husband and we just kind of like chill out and talk. And out and talk. And out and talk. And >> you know, it's it's a nice >> you know, it's it's a nice >> you know, it's it's a nice >> time for me as well just to kind of do >> time for me as well just to kind of do >> time for me as well just to kind of do that with him. Mhm. that with him. Mhm. that with him. Mhm. >> Um and then on weekends I'll probably do >> Um and then on weekends I'll probably do >> Um and then on weekends I'll probably do like a hike with my family and sometimes like a hike with my family and sometimes like a hike with my family and sometimes we'll do like a sprint up the hill and we'll do like a sprint up the hill and we'll do like a sprint up the hill and you know, but it's more just enjoyable you know, but it's more just enjoyable you know, but it's more just enjoyable time in nature. Um still moving but you time in nature. Um still moving but you time in nature. Um still moving but you know it's it's kind of family time too. know it's it's kind of family time too. know it's it's kind of family time too. >> Weight vests on the run or hike. >> Weight vests on the run or hike. >> Weight vests on the run or hike. >> No, I don't not I mean I'm kind of >> No, I don't not I mean I'm kind of >> No, I don't not I mean I'm kind of wanting to experiment with that but not wanting to experiment with that but not wanting to experiment with that but not really. I'm just kind of sometimes we really. I'm just kind of sometimes we really. I'm just kind of sometimes we bring our puppy and bring our puppy and bring our puppy and >> you know so it's it's more about the >> you know so it's it's more about the >> you know so it's it's more about the experience I think than like I'm like I experience I think than like I'm like I experience I think than like I'm like I get I get a lot of workout throughout get I get a lot of workout throughout get I get a lot of workout throughout the week. the week. the week. >> Sure. >> Sure. >> Sure. >> But it's like you said it's >> But it's like you said it's >> But it's like you said it's non-negotiable for me and and times when non-negotiable for me and and times when non-negotiable for me and and times when I'm like like today. So, you know, I had I'm like like today. So, you know, I had I'm like like today. So, you know, I had a long drive and so I I got on my a long drive and so I I got on my a long drive and so I I got on my Pelaton and I did a 10-minute you know I Pelaton and I did a 10-minute you know I Pelaton and I did a 10-minute you know I did a 10-minute Tabata back toback. So did a 10-minute Tabata back toback. So did a 10-minute Tabata back toback. So it was like two backto-back Tobatas, it was like two backto-back Tobatas, it was like two backto-back Tobatas, right? So it was it ended up being 10 right? So it was it ended up being 10 right? So it was it ended up being 10 minutes. It was like 30 second recovery minutes. It was like 30 second recovery minutes. It was like 30 second recovery in between the two Tbata sessions. 2 to1 in between the two Tbata sessions. 2 to1 in between the two Tbata sessions. 2 to1 ratio, 20 seconds on, 10 seconds off. ratio, 20 seconds on, 10 seconds off. ratio, 20 seconds on, 10 seconds off. But like I have to do something every But like I have to do something every But like I have to do something every day and if I'm traveling or I have like day and if I'm traveling or I have like day and if I'm traveling or I have like an early podcast or something, I'll I'll an early podcast or something, I'll I'll an early podcast or something, I'll I'll just jump on the bike and I have to get just jump on the bike and I have to get just jump on the bike and I have to get that blood flow. Sometimes I'm in my that blood flow. Sometimes I'm in my that blood flow. Sometimes I'm in my hotel room and I don't want to go to the hotel room and I don't want to go to the hotel room and I don't want to go to the gym. I don't have time and I just in my gym. I don't have time and I just in my gym. I don't have time and I just in my room, you know, I do I do the air room, you know, I do I do the air room, you know, I do I do the air squats, I'll do high knees, jumping squats, I'll do high knees, jumping squats, I'll do high knees, jumping jacks, and I repeat for 10 minutes. I'm jacks, and I repeat for 10 minutes. I'm jacks, and I repeat for 10 minutes. I'm getting my heart rate up and I'm, you getting my heart rate up and I'm, you getting my heart rate up and I'm, you know, I've got sweat on my brow. Like know, I've got sweat on my brow. Like know, I've got sweat on my brow. Like I'm not it's not like the most intense I'm not it's not like the most intense I'm not it's not like the most intense workout, but it's so important for me. workout, but it's so important for me. workout, but it's so important for me. You know, there's there's a variety of You know, there's there's a variety of You know, there's there's a variety of brain benefits that have been shown with brain benefits that have been shown with brain benefits that have been shown with even just 10 minutes of this vigorous even just 10 minutes of this vigorous even just 10 minutes of this vigorous type of intensity of workout you do, you type of intensity of workout you do, you type of intensity of workout you do, you know, where you're I mean, you probably know, where you're I mean, you probably know, where you're I mean, you probably have seen this this data where it's like have seen this this data where it's like have seen this this data where it's like just 10 minutes of this vigorous type of just 10 minutes of this vigorous type of just 10 minutes of this vigorous type of exercise, you're immediately increasing exercise, you're immediately increasing exercise, you're immediately increasing neuronal connections. Um, there's been neuronal connections. Um, there's been neuronal connections. Um, there's been studies showing that you have an studies showing that you have an studies showing that you have an improvement in executive function by improvement in executive function by improvement in executive function by like 14%, which is pretty big. I think like 14%, which is pretty big. I think like 14%, which is pretty big. I think it was like a 50 millisecond improvement it was like a 50 millisecond improvement it was like a 50 millisecond improvement processing speed or something which processing speed or something which processing speed or something which doesn't sound a lot but actually it doesn't sound a lot but actually it doesn't sound a lot but actually it translates to a big improvement in translates to a big improvement in translates to a big improvement in executive function. So my brain works executive function. So my brain works executive function. So my brain works better, I feel better, you know, better better, I feel better, you know, better better, I feel better, you know, better mood. Um there's even studies that have mood. Um there's even studies that have mood. Um there's even studies that have compared impulse control after various compared impulse control after various compared impulse control after various types of intensity of workout. So like types of intensity of workout. So like types of intensity of workout. So like there's one study that compared a more there's one study that compared a more there's one study that compared a more low intensity versus moderate intensity low intensity versus moderate intensity low intensity versus moderate intensity versus high intensity. So, you're versus high intensity. So, you're versus high intensity. So, you're talking about like walking versus maybe, talking about like walking versus maybe, talking about like walking versus maybe, you know, jogging slowly where you can you know, jogging slowly where you can you know, jogging slowly where you can still have a conversation versus like still have a conversation versus like still have a conversation versus like you're doing a HIT workout, right? you're doing a HIT workout, right? you're doing a HIT workout, right? You're on. When you're on, you're not You're on. When you're on, you're not You're on. When you're on, you're not really talking because you're going as really talking because you're going as really talking because you're going as hard as you can during that interval. hard as you can during that interval. hard as you can during that interval. >> And it was the highintensity, you know, >> And it was the highintensity, you know, >> And it was the highintensity, you know, vigorous intensity exercise that really vigorous intensity exercise that really vigorous intensity exercise that really increased plasma serotonin, which has increased plasma serotonin, which has increased plasma serotonin, which has been shown to associate with brain been shown to associate with brain been shown to associate with brain serotonin. The studies have been done. serotonin. The studies have been done. serotonin. The studies have been done. And serotonin is very important for, as And serotonin is very important for, as And serotonin is very important for, as you know, for impulse control. I mean a you know, for impulse control. I mean a you know, for impulse control. I mean a lot of people think about serotonin with lot of people think about serotonin with lot of people think about serotonin with respect to mood because we have these respect to mood because we have these respect to mood because we have these selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors SSRIs that are used to treat you know SSRIs that are used to treat you know SSRIs that are used to treat you know depression major depressive disorder but depression major depressive disorder but depression major depressive disorder but serotonin as you know does so much more serotonin as you know does so much more serotonin as you know does so much more more than that and impulse control is more than that and impulse control is more than that and impulse control is one of the the the big things that one of the the the big things that one of the the the big things that serotonin plays a role in and so the serotonin plays a role in and so the serotonin plays a role in and so the studies showed that plasma serotonin studies showed that plasma serotonin studies showed that plasma serotonin increased in the higher intensity group increased in the higher intensity group increased in the higher intensity group and that correlated with improved and that correlated with improved and that correlated with improved impulse control. So, of course, for us impulse control. So, of course, for us impulse control. So, of course, for us now in the modern day society that we now in the modern day society that we now in the modern day society that we live in, we're constantly being live in, we're constantly being live in, we're constantly being bombarded with, you know, social media bombarded with, you know, social media bombarded with, you know, social media and all these things and like you have and all these things and like you have and all these things and like you have to be able to kind of like filter that to be able to kind of like filter that to be able to kind of like filter that out and not like just go with the out and not like just go with the out and not like just go with the impulse like check my social media, impulse like check my social media, impulse like check my social media, check my, you know, and how many likes check my, you know, and how many likes check my, you know, and how many likes did I get or whatever. You need to just did I get or whatever. You need to just did I get or whatever. You need to just be able to focus. And so that for me, be able to focus. And so that for me, be able to focus. And so that for me, you know, serotonin is important and so you know, serotonin is important and so you know, serotonin is important and so I like to get that vigorous intensity I like to get that vigorous intensity I like to get that vigorous intensity exercise as well. exercise as well. exercise as well. >> I'd like to take a quick break and >> I'd like to take a quick break and >> I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge our sponsor, Our Place. acknowledge our sponsor, Our Place. acknowledge our sponsor, Our Place. 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I love that you mentioned other other I love that you mentioned other other I love that you mentioned other other functions of serotonin because, as you functions of serotonin because, as you functions of serotonin because, as you point out, it is so heavily associated point out, it is so heavily associated point out, it is so heavily associated with this mood aspect and certainly has with this mood aspect and certainly has with this mood aspect and certainly has a role there. But um the impulse control a role there. But um the impulse control a role there. But um the impulse control piece is I think is a non-trivial aspect piece is I think is a non-trivial aspect piece is I think is a non-trivial aspect to uh the effects of exercise and just to uh the effects of exercise and just to uh the effects of exercise and just generally I'm curious, do you um bring generally I'm curious, do you um bring generally I'm curious, do you um bring your phone or feel compelled to check your phone or feel compelled to check your phone or feel compelled to check your phone during workouts or are you your phone during workouts or are you your phone during workouts or are you able to just say I'm compartmentalizing able to just say I'm compartmentalizing able to just say I'm compartmentalizing now this is the workout. You might put now this is the workout. You might put now this is the workout. You might put on music or check maybe text here or on music or check maybe text here or on music or check maybe text here or there if you need to, but are you able there if you need to, but are you able there if you need to, but are you able to compartmentalize or um do you to compartmentalize or um do you to compartmentalize or um do you struggle with the the phone during struggle with the the phone during struggle with the the phone during workouts? workouts? workouts? >> Oh, I don't bring my phone to my workout >> Oh, I don't bring my phone to my workout >> Oh, I don't bring my phone to my workout at all. Like I don't Now I do have a at all. Like I don't Now I do have a at all. Like I don't Now I do have a watch that I wear that you know if watch that I wear that you know if watch that I wear that you know if there's like an emergency I'll get a there's like an emergency I'll get a there's like an emergency I'll get a text message. Oftentimes I put it on text message. Oftentimes I put it on text message. Oftentimes I put it on silent like I on no notifications though silent like I on no notifications though silent like I on no notifications though cuz I don't want to be bothered. But I cuz I don't want to be bothered. But I cuz I don't want to be bothered. But I don't I don't really check my phone. Um, don't I don't really check my phone. Um, don't I don't really check my phone. Um, I I I don't really like checking things I I I don't really like checking things I I I don't really like checking things like social media. For me, it's just a like social media. For me, it's just a like social media. For me, it's just a distraction. And frankly, I think it's distraction. And frankly, I think it's distraction. And frankly, I think it's terrible for people's brains. Even terrible for people's brains. Even terrible for people's brains. Even though like my business kind of depends though like my business kind of depends though like my business kind of depends on it somewhat, I think I think social on it somewhat, I think I think social on it somewhat, I think I think social media is not really good for people to media is not really good for people to media is not really good for people to be honest. Uh, so I don't really check be honest. Uh, so I don't really check be honest. Uh, so I don't really check my phone or bring my phone to my my phone or bring my phone to my my phone or bring my phone to my workouts. My workouts are I like to chat workouts. My workouts are I like to chat workouts. My workouts are I like to chat with my friends when I'm working out with my friends when I'm working out with my friends when I'm working out with them and that's fun. with them and that's fun. with them and that's fun. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> that's in real life. >> that's in real life. >> that's in real life. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. as the kids say. as the kids say. as the kids say. >> Yeah, that's in real life. And um yeah, >> Yeah, that's in real life. And um yeah, >> Yeah, that's in real life. And um yeah, phones, phones for me are not something phones, phones for me are not something phones, phones for me are not something that I bring to my workout. that I bring to my workout. that I bring to my workout. >> Great. Yeah, I've um been experimenting >> Great. Yeah, I've um been experimenting >> Great. Yeah, I've um been experimenting with not allowing the phone in my gym with not allowing the phone in my gym with not allowing the phone in my gym and just the workouts go so much better. and just the workouts go so much better. and just the workouts go so much better. And I find that the mental and physical And I find that the mental and physical And I find that the mental and physical resetting aspect of working out just resetting aspect of working out just resetting aspect of working out just seems to be enhanced. But um sounds like seems to be enhanced. But um sounds like seems to be enhanced. But um sounds like you were already there and I'm just you were already there and I'm just you were already there and I'm just arriving. So, I have a couple other arriving. So, I have a couple other arriving. So, I have a couple other specific questions about your workouts specific questions about your workouts specific questions about your workouts because for my own interest and I know because for my own interest and I know because for my own interest and I know many people will wonder for the many people will wonder for the many people will wonder for the dedicated weight workouts. Are these dedicated weight workouts. Are these dedicated weight workouts. Are these whole body workouts? And you said low whole body workouts? And you said low whole body workouts? And you said low reps. Uh maybe you could just tell us reps. Uh maybe you could just tell us reps. Uh maybe you could just tell us what low reps is for you and then the uh what low reps is for you and then the uh what low reps is for you and then the uh seems like the the everpresent question seems like the the everpresent question seems like the the everpresent question is to failure, close to failure. I mean, is to failure, close to failure. I mean, is to failure, close to failure. I mean, um just to, you know, round out that um just to, you know, round out that um just to, you know, round out that that portion of the of the workout that portion of the of the workout that portion of the of the workout picture. picture. picture. >> The workouts that I'm doing with my >> The workouts that I'm doing with my >> The workouts that I'm doing with my strength training workouts with my strength training workouts with my strength training workouts with my coach, you know, it it really depends. coach, you know, it it really depends. coach, you know, it it really depends. Most of those workouts are they're Most of those workouts are they're Most of those workouts are they're they're multi- joint workouts. So I am they're multi- joint workouts. So I am they're multi- joint workouts. So I am most of the time doing you know some most of the time doing you know some most of the time doing you know some either front squat, back squat or I'm either front squat, back squat or I'm either front squat, back squat or I'm cleaning it as well, right? Which cleaning it as well, right? Which cleaning it as well, right? Which obviously the lake the weight goes down obviously the lake the weight goes down obviously the lake the weight goes down if I'm doing if I'm cleaning it cuz it's if I'm doing if I'm cleaning it cuz it's if I'm doing if I'm cleaning it cuz it's hard to clean. It's also the hard like hard to clean. It's also the hard like hard to clean. It's also the hard like it's the thing that I hate doing the it's the thing that I hate doing the it's the thing that I hate doing the most. most. most. >> Cleans. >> Cleans. >> Cleans. >> Oh yeah. cleans with front squat because >> Oh yeah. cleans with front squat because >> Oh yeah. cleans with front squat because it's really hard and for me I mean for it's really hard and for me I mean for it's really hard and for me I mean for others who've been doing it for years others who've been doing it for years others who've been doing it for years I'm sure it's like you know they love it I'm sure it's like you know they love it I'm sure it's like you know they love it but for me it's very hard. I've only but for me it's very hard. I've only but for me it's very hard. I've only been doing clean since, you know, been doing clean since, you know, been doing clean since, you know, February 2024. February 2024. February 2024. So, I'm pretty new to it. And so, it's So, I'm pretty new to it. And so, it's So, I'm pretty new to it. And so, it's mentally like I have to overcome that mentally like I have to overcome that mentally like I have to overcome that challenge. Which, by the way, once I challenge. Which, by the way, once I challenge. Which, by the way, once I started doing all this sort of weight started doing all this sort of weight started doing all this sort of weight training, I've always been an endurance training, I've always been an endurance training, I've always been an endurance junkie. Like I like I used to like go junkie. Like I like I used to like go junkie. Like I like I used to like go long runs and you know, races and stuff long runs and you know, races and stuff long runs and you know, races and stuff like that. So, for me, that's like my like that. So, for me, that's like my like that. So, for me, that's like my safe spot, right? That's what comes easy safe spot, right? That's what comes easy safe spot, right? That's what comes easy to me. uh weight training and resistance to me. uh weight training and resistance to me. uh weight training and resistance training, strength training, definitely training, strength training, definitely training, strength training, definitely not something that I've done my whole not something that I've done my whole not something that I've done my whole life. I'm so glad that I started doing life. I'm so glad that I started doing life. I'm so glad that I started doing it, but very very challenging for me. it, but very very challenging for me. it, but very very challenging for me. And so I would say the biggest effect And so I would say the biggest effect And so I would say the biggest effect was on my brain and the ability to was on my brain and the ability to was on my brain and the ability to handle stress better handle stress better handle stress better >> where it was like unbelievable cuz it >> where it was like unbelievable cuz it >> where it was like unbelievable cuz it was so hard and I I just didn't want to was so hard and I I just didn't want to was so hard and I I just didn't want to do these cleans, you know, and and and do these cleans, you know, and and and do these cleans, you know, and and and these front squats. Um and then the rest these front squats. Um and then the rest these front squats. Um and then the rest of my day was not as hard. And that to of my day was not as hard. And that to of my day was not as hard. And that to me was like the biggest surprise for me was like the biggest surprise for me was like the biggest surprise for this type of training. But anyway, so um this type of training. But anyway, so um this type of training. But anyway, so um I do a variety of um if I'm doing if I'm I do a variety of um if I'm doing if I'm I do a variety of um if I'm doing if I'm going heavier then it you know depends. going heavier then it you know depends. going heavier then it you know depends. Sometimes I'll start off it's like okay Sometimes I'll start off it's like okay Sometimes I'll start off it's like okay we start off we do five reps and then we we start off we do five reps and then we we start off we do five reps and then we go down to four and then we go down to go down to four and then we go down to go down to four and then we go down to three and then we go down to one. Right. three and then we go down to one. Right. three and then we go down to one. Right. >> You're doing singles. >> You're doing singles. >> You're doing singles. >> We do. Mhm. I Yeah. Yeah. And that's the >> We do. Mhm. I Yeah. Yeah. And that's the >> We do. Mhm. I Yeah. Yeah. And that's the hardest. It's the hardest. hardest. It's the hardest. hardest. It's the hardest. >> But then there's there's like my coach >> But then there's there's like my coach >> But then there's there's like my coach like it's just one. It's just one. You like it's just one. It's just one. You like it's just one. It's just one. You know, sometimes we'll do like six, five, know, sometimes we'll do like six, five, know, sometimes we'll do like six, five, and then we do four twice and then we do and then we do four twice and then we do and then we do four twice and then we do three twice, right? And so it all three twice, right? And so it all three twice, right? And so it all depends, you know, also on the day depends, you know, also on the day depends, you know, also on the day there's some days where I'm just like, there's some days where I'm just like, there's some days where I'm just like, you know, can we do lower reps and like you know, can we do lower reps and like you know, can we do lower reps and like lighter weight, right? Where I'm just lighter weight, right? Where I'm just lighter weight, right? Where I'm just like it's this is the day for me. I I'm like it's this is the day for me. I I'm like it's this is the day for me. I I'm I'm stressed. I'm not I'm not here. Like I'm stressed. I'm not I'm not here. Like I'm stressed. I'm not I'm not here. Like so you kind of have to modify your so you kind of have to modify your so you kind of have to modify your workout, right? According to how you workout, right? According to how you workout, right? According to how you feel that day. Um, but I would say that feel that day. Um, but I would say that feel that day. Um, but I would say that those the majority of my strength those the majority of my strength those the majority of my strength training workouts are or deadlifting. training workouts are or deadlifting. training workouts are or deadlifting. You know, I love deadl dead deadlifting. You know, I love deadl dead deadlifting. You know, I love deadl dead deadlifting. I think I'm pretty good at at pulling I think I'm pretty good at at pulling I think I'm pretty good at at pulling that weight up, lifting that weight up. that weight up, lifting that weight up. that weight up, lifting that weight up. >> A straight bar, hex bar. >> A straight bar, hex bar. >> A straight bar, hex bar. >> I do a straight bar script. There's so >> I do a straight bar script. There's so >> I do a straight bar script. There's so many variables. many variables. many variables. >> Straight bar, straight bar. And um it's >> Straight bar, straight bar. And um it's >> Straight bar, straight bar. And um it's the same deal with that. Like most of the same deal with that. Like most of the same deal with that. Like most of the time with strength training, we'll the time with strength training, we'll the time with strength training, we'll do, you know, we start off at like five do, you know, we start off at like five do, you know, we start off at like five or six and then work our way down. And or six and then work our way down. And or six and then work our way down. And then I I usually do a drop set after, then I I usually do a drop set after, then I I usually do a drop set after, you know, any of those sessions where you know, any of those sessions where you know, any of those sessions where I'll do 10 and then it's like a lot I'll do 10 and then it's like a lot I'll do 10 and then it's like a lot lighter, right? lighter, right? lighter, right? >> So those those are typically my strength >> So those those are typically my strength >> So those those are typically my strength training sessions or multi- joint. training sessions or multi- joint. training sessions or multi- joint. Sometimes I'll do accessory sessions, Sometimes I'll do accessory sessions, Sometimes I'll do accessory sessions, you know, where I'm working. I do, you you know, where I'm working. I do, you you know, where I'm working. I do, you know, the dips know, the dips know, the dips >> um or >> um or >> um or the Bulgarian, you know, the Bulgarian the Bulgarian, you know, the Bulgarian the Bulgarian, you know, the Bulgarian split squats. I mean, just the accessory split squats. I mean, just the accessory split squats. I mean, just the accessory stuff that you're working the like stuff that you're working the like stuff that you're working the like smaller stabilization muscles and stuff smaller stabilization muscles and stuff smaller stabilization muscles and stuff like that. I love that you call like that. I love that you call like that. I love that you call Bulgarian split squats accessory, Bulgarian split squats accessory, Bulgarian split squats accessory, smaller muscles. For a lot of people, smaller muscles. For a lot of people, smaller muscles. For a lot of people, that's the compound work, which is just that's the compound work, which is just that's the compound work, which is just I have to say I I'm inside I'm just like I have to say I I'm inside I'm just like I have to say I I'm inside I'm just like so delighted because I mean obviously uh so delighted because I mean obviously uh so delighted because I mean obviously uh weight training is something that's weight training is something that's weight training is something that's caught on broadly for men and women now. caught on broadly for men and women now. caught on broadly for men and women now. But I don't know many women, and I know But I don't know many women, and I know But I don't know many women, and I know they're out there, but I don't know many they're out there, but I don't know many they're out there, but I don't know many women who are uh working down to singles women who are uh working down to singles women who are uh working down to singles on multi- joint, like real mult multi- on multi- joint, like real mult multi- on multi- joint, like real mult multi- joint, like you know, deadlifts, cleans. joint, like you know, deadlifts, cleans. joint, like you know, deadlifts, cleans. I know they're out there, but it's not I know they're out there, but it's not I know they're out there, but it's not that common to see in gyms. And uh this that common to see in gyms. And uh this that common to see in gyms. And uh this is going to no doubt spark a debate is going to no doubt spark a debate is going to no doubt spark a debate because you know some of the older because you know some of the older because you know some of the older slightly orinary but very credentialed slightly orinary but very credentialed slightly orinary but very credentialed strength training folks have been online strength training folks have been online strength training folks have been online recently saying that as people um past recently saying that as people um past recently saying that as people um past 35 that they shouldn't do squats that 35 that they shouldn't do squats that 35 that they shouldn't do squats that they shouldn't do deadlifts and they shouldn't do deadlifts and they shouldn't do deadlifts and certainly shouldn't do them heavy certainly shouldn't do them heavy certainly shouldn't do them heavy because it is because of this whole because it is because of this whole because it is because of this whole thing of you know you can do higher reps thing of you know you can do higher reps thing of you know you can do higher reps and can go to failure and still get and can go to failure and still get and can go to failure and still get hypertrophy. But what I love is that hypertrophy. But what I love is that hypertrophy. But what I love is that you're not necessarily talking about you're not necessarily talking about you're not necessarily talking about hypertrophy. Maybe some hypertrophy, but hypertrophy. Maybe some hypertrophy, but hypertrophy. Maybe some hypertrophy, but this is about strength. This is about this is about strength. This is about this is about strength. This is about building more strength and triples and building more strength and triples and building more strength and triples and doubles and singles. doubles and singles. doubles and singles. >> That's awesome. >> That's awesome. >> That's awesome. >> It's hard. It's so hard. And it's the >> It's hard. It's so hard. And it's the >> It's hard. It's so hard. And it's the part that I I'm like all about. Let's part that I I'm like all about. Let's part that I I'm like all about. Let's like the last 30 minutes where it's hit like the last 30 minutes where it's hit like the last 30 minutes where it's hit and that's hard. It's a different kind and that's hard. It's a different kind and that's hard. It's a different kind of hard, of hard, of hard, >> but for me the strength training is the >> but for me the strength training is the >> but for me the strength training is the hardest. And there's definitely a mental hardest. And there's definitely a mental hardest. And there's definitely a mental component, right, where I do not want to component, right, where I do not want to component, right, where I do not want to do it. It's like you talk about with do it. It's like you talk about with do it. It's like you talk about with cold plunging, right? like you you just cold plunging, right? like you you just cold plunging, right? like you you just it's so unpleasant and you don't want to it's so unpleasant and you don't want to it's so unpleasant and you don't want to do it and like you do it and it's like do it and like you do it and it's like do it and like you do it and it's like that mental toughness that you're that mental toughness that you're that mental toughness that you're building right I that's what I building right I that's what I building right I that's what I experience when I'm doing these you know experience when I'm doing these you know experience when I'm doing these you know strength training exercises that I'm strength training exercises that I'm strength training exercises that I'm doing and and I don't know if it's going doing and and I don't know if it's going doing and and I don't know if it's going to get easier maybe it will hasn't yet I to get easier maybe it will hasn't yet I to get easier maybe it will hasn't yet I still I still dread it but I do it and still I still dread it but I do it and still I still dread it but I do it and uh I'm proud of myself for doing it but uh I'm proud of myself for doing it but uh I'm proud of myself for doing it but it is it's definitely hard and I am it is it's definitely hard and I am it is it's definitely hard and I am getting stronger I think mentally and getting stronger I think mentally and getting stronger I think mentally and obviously physically as Well, but um obviously physically as Well, but um obviously physically as Well, but um have to add in the aerobic as well have to add in the aerobic as well have to add in the aerobic as well though. I think that's really important. though. I think that's really important. though. I think that's really important. >> That's your base. Yeah, you love it. >> That's your base. Yeah, you love it. >> That's your base. Yeah, you love it. >> I love it. And I do think >> I love it. And I do think >> I love it. And I do think cardiorespiratory fitness is very cardiorespiratory fitness is very cardiorespiratory fitness is very important, you know, for for long-term important, you know, for for long-term important, you know, for for long-term health as well as, you know, obviously health as well as, you know, obviously health as well as, you know, obviously building muscle and strength. building muscle and strength. building muscle and strength. >> Well, on the one hand, I want for you as >> Well, on the one hand, I want for you as >> Well, on the one hand, I want for you as a friend to for you to hate the heavy a friend to for you to hate the heavy a friend to for you to hate the heavy work less. On the other hand, I don't work less. On the other hand, I don't work less. On the other hand, I don't because of this literature. I'm sure because of this literature. I'm sure because of this literature. I'm sure you're familiar with it, but uh the you're familiar with it, but uh the you're familiar with it, but uh the anterior mids singulate cortex, this anterior mids singulate cortex, this anterior mids singulate cortex, this brain area that is hyperlastic brain area that is hyperlastic brain area that is hyperlastic throughout the lifespan, which is rare throughout the lifespan, which is rare throughout the lifespan, which is rare for a brain area and it enlarges um when for a brain area and it enlarges um when for a brain area and it enlarges um when we do things we don't want to do. I we do things we don't want to do. I we do things we don't want to do. I mean, it's so clear it's not just about mean, it's so clear it's not just about mean, it's so clear it's not just about doing hard things about it's about doing doing hard things about it's about doing doing hard things about it's about doing the hard thing you hate. the hard thing you hate. the hard thing you hate. >> And and for you that sounds like the the >> And and for you that sounds like the the >> And and for you that sounds like the the heavy compound movements for me. Yeah. I heavy compound movements for me. Yeah. I heavy compound movements for me. Yeah. I don't like the cold plunge, which is why don't like the cold plunge, which is why don't like the cold plunge, which is why I do it. I don't think it's magic. I I do it. I don't think it's magic. I I do it. I don't think it's magic. I just think it's a it's a surefire just think it's a it's a surefire just think it's a it's a surefire stimulus that I hate to make get stimulus that I hate to make get stimulus that I hate to make get mentally stronger. And I think um having mentally stronger. And I think um having mentally stronger. And I think um having something that you really despise that something that you really despise that something that you really despise that you know is good for you seems to keep you know is good for you seems to keep you know is good for you seems to keep this anterior midsulate cortex volume this anterior midsulate cortex volume this anterior midsulate cortex volume either increasing or the same. And either increasing or the same. And either increasing or the same. And that's actually the thing in these that's actually the thing in these that's actually the thing in these so-called super aers that is the so-called super aers that is the so-called super aers that is the strongest anatomical coralate that we strongest anatomical coralate that we strongest anatomical coralate that we have. So on the one hand I hope it gets have. So on the one hand I hope it gets have. So on the one hand I hope it gets easier on the other hand for your sake I easier on the other hand for your sake I easier on the other hand for your sake I hope it doesn't get easier because it's hope it doesn't get easier because it's hope it doesn't get easier because it's still it's going to be so much more still it's going to be so much more still it's going to be so much more beneficial. I have a coach who can tell beneficial. I have a coach who can tell beneficial. I have a coach who can tell when it's getting easier and she will when it's getting easier and she will when it's getting easier and she will definitely up the weight. definitely up the weight. definitely up the weight. >> I I I mean it keeps I mean it keeps >> I I I mean it keeps I mean it keeps >> I I I mean it keeps I mean it keeps going up and so it doesn't it it gets going up and so it doesn't it it gets going up and so it doesn't it it gets easier in a sense but it doesn't right. easier in a sense but it doesn't right. easier in a sense but it doesn't right. >> So I mean I think that's that's the >> So I mean I think that's that's the >> So I mean I think that's that's the whole point is you're building strength whole point is you're building strength whole point is you're building strength and you keep and you keep and you keep >> making it heavier and it becomes harder >> making it heavier and it becomes harder >> making it heavier and it becomes harder again because now it's heavier. again because now it's heavier. again because now it's heavier. >> Awesome. >> Awesome. >> Awesome. >> But um and I haven't gotten injured so >> But um and I haven't gotten injured so >> But um and I haven't gotten injured so that's also you know knock on wood. that's also you know knock on wood. that's also you know knock on wood. >> Yeah. No, knock on wood. Um, thank you >> Yeah. No, knock on wood. Um, thank you >> Yeah. No, knock on wood. Um, thank you for rounding out that picture. It's for rounding out that picture. It's for rounding out that picture. It's super inspiring for men and women, you super inspiring for men and women, you super inspiring for men and women, you know. So, know. So, know. So, >> it's not easy to post on social media >> it's not easy to post on social media >> it's not easy to post on social media because obviously I'm a newbie, so I because obviously I'm a newbie, so I because obviously I'm a newbie, so I have all sorts of, you know, things that have all sorts of, you know, things that have all sorts of, you know, things that I can ways I can improve, but I'm I can ways I can improve, but I'm I can ways I can improve, but I'm posting it, you know. posting it, you know. posting it, you know. >> Well, and the fact that you're working >> Well, and the fact that you're working >> Well, and the fact that you're working down into triples, doubles, and singles, down into triples, doubles, and singles, down into triples, doubles, and singles, I think is um something that I'm trying I think is um something that I'm trying I think is um something that I'm trying to do more of. And I think um this to do more of. And I think um this to do more of. And I think um this notion that you can get hypertrophy with notion that you can get hypertrophy with notion that you can get hypertrophy with higher reps if you take it to failure. higher reps if you take it to failure. higher reps if you take it to failure. Sure. I I totally agree. Read the Sure. I I totally agree. Read the Sure. I I totally agree. Read the studies. totally agree with the data, studies. totally agree with the data, studies. totally agree with the data, but not everything is about hypertrophy. but not everything is about hypertrophy. but not everything is about hypertrophy. I think that's what people forget. It's I think that's what people forget. It's I think that's what people forget. It's not all about growing muscle. Um, NVO2 not all about growing muscle. Um, NVO2 not all about growing muscle. Um, NVO2 max, which is great, but it's just it's max, which is great, but it's just it's max, which is great, but it's just it's not all about um the top contour. And I not all about um the top contour. And I not all about um the top contour. And I what I love about the way you approach what I love about the way you approach what I love about the way you approach everything is you're you go through everything is you're you go through everything is you're you go through multiple layers of of the the health multiple layers of of the the health multiple layers of of the the health stratus as it were. This probably a good stratus as it were. This probably a good stratus as it were. This probably a good opportunity to talk about protein opportunity to talk about protein opportunity to talk about protein because I have a very specific question because I have a very specific question because I have a very specific question about protein. We all hear one gram of about protein. We all hear one gram of about protein. We all hear one gram of quality protein per pound of body weight quality protein per pound of body weight quality protein per pound of body weight or lean body weight. sort of what we're or lean body weight. sort of what we're or lean body weight. sort of what we're kind of what's thrown at us. By doing kind of what's thrown at us. By doing kind of what's thrown at us. By doing the heavier weight training, do you the heavier weight training, do you the heavier weight training, do you notice that your protein appetite has notice that your protein appetite has notice that your protein appetite has increased? Like appetite specifically increased? Like appetite specifically increased? Like appetite specifically for protein foods? for protein foods? for protein foods? >> I don't know that I have. You know, I >> I don't know that I have. You know, I >> I don't know that I have. You know, I interestingly have been doing a little interestingly have been doing a little interestingly have been doing a little bit more intermittent fasting in which bit more intermittent fasting in which bit more intermittent fasting in which you know people think about intermittent you know people think about intermittent you know people think about intermittent fasting, they think about it as just one fasting, they think about it as just one fasting, they think about it as just one thing, one intervention. I think it's thing, one intervention. I think it's thing, one intervention. I think it's two. there's a behavioral aspect to it two. there's a behavioral aspect to it two. there's a behavioral aspect to it where it's a tool to sort of lower the where it's a tool to sort of lower the where it's a tool to sort of lower the amount of calories you're taking in. The amount of calories you're taking in. The amount of calories you're taking in. The other one would be this metabolic other one would be this metabolic other one would be this metabolic switch. But so I've actually since I switch. But so I've actually since I switch. But so I've actually since I don't know September, maybe last don't know September, maybe last don't know September, maybe last September of 2025 been been doing more September of 2025 been been doing more September of 2025 been been doing more intermittent fasting. And what I mean by intermittent fasting. And what I mean by intermittent fasting. And what I mean by that is just really just eating less. that is just really just eating less. that is just really just eating less. And um the reason for that is because I And um the reason for that is because I And um the reason for that is because I noticed that everything that I was doing noticed that everything that I was doing noticed that everything that I was doing which was you know I'm I eat healthy I which was you know I'm I eat healthy I which was you know I'm I eat healthy I exercise a lot and yet I was sort of exercise a lot and yet I was sort of exercise a lot and yet I was sort of gaining more fat in the the belly gaining more fat in the the belly gaining more fat in the the belly section right the visceral fat and the section right the visceral fat and the section right the visceral fat and the only thing that really helped me stop only thing that really helped me stop only thing that really helped me stop that put the put the brakes on was that put the put the brakes on was that put the put the brakes on was getting more in a caloric deficit. Um, getting more in a caloric deficit. Um, getting more in a caloric deficit. Um, so so so maybe my drive to do that kind of is maybe my drive to do that kind of is maybe my drive to do that kind of is skewing whether or not my appetite for skewing whether or not my appetite for skewing whether or not my appetite for protein would go up. But I personally am protein would go up. But I personally am protein would go up. But I personally am on the scale of 1.2 to 1.6 g per on the scale of 1.2 to 1.6 g per on the scale of 1.2 to 1.6 g per kilogram body weight, which kilogram body weight, which kilogram body weight, which >> per kilogram >> per kilogram >> per kilogram >> per kilogram, which is probably a little >> per kilogram, which is probably a little >> per kilogram, which is probably a little bit less than the pound. bit less than the pound. bit less than the pound. >> You know, it's it's a kind of a >> You know, it's it's a kind of a >> You know, it's it's a kind of a throwaway statement. gram of quality throwaway statement. gram of quality throwaway statement. gram of quality protein um as defined as something with protein um as defined as something with protein um as defined as something with you know lots of the essential amino you know lots of the essential amino you know lots of the essential amino acids and uh uh so forth per pound or acids and uh uh so forth per pound or acids and uh uh so forth per pound or per lean pound of body mass which is per lean pound of body mass which is per lean pound of body mass which is something I think I and many other something I think I and many other something I think I and many other people shoot for but I'm curious how people shoot for but I'm curious how people shoot for but I'm curious how religious you are about the you know religious you are about the you know religious you are about the you know getting a certain protein amount or per getting a certain protein amount or per getting a certain protein amount or per meal meal meal >> basically it wasn't working for me in >> basically it wasn't working for me in >> basically it wasn't working for me in terms of like I was really trying to get terms of like I was really trying to get terms of like I was really trying to get aim for like the higher end of the for aim for like the higher end of the for aim for like the higher end of the for me you know 1.6 six grams per kilogram me you know 1.6 six grams per kilogram me you know 1.6 six grams per kilogram body weight or even a little bit above body weight or even a little bit above body weight or even a little bit above that. And what I found what was that. And what I found what was that. And what I found what was happening is that I was actually getting happening is that I was actually getting happening is that I was actually getting gaining more weight because I think I gaining more weight because I think I gaining more weight because I think I was consuming more calories at the same was consuming more calories at the same was consuming more calories at the same time is if you're getting it from whole time is if you're getting it from whole time is if you're getting it from whole foods, right? Like that's just kind of foods, right? Like that's just kind of foods, right? Like that's just kind of naturally going to happen. Uh and so I naturally going to happen. Uh and so I naturally going to happen. Uh and so I had to slide down. Um but I'm still I'm had to slide down. Um but I'm still I'm had to slide down. Um but I'm still I'm still like I said, I'm still getting still like I said, I'm still getting still like I said, I'm still getting within that range of like probably on within that range of like probably on within that range of like probably on average maybe 1.3 1.4 g per kilogram average maybe 1.3 1.4 g per kilogram average maybe 1.3 1.4 g per kilogram body weight. And it's really it's really body weight. And it's really it's really body weight. And it's really it's really worked well for me. But like people are worked well for me. But like people are worked well for me. But like people are different and you have different goals, different and you have different goals, different and you have different goals, right? You know, like I'm gaining muscle right? You know, like I'm gaining muscle right? You know, like I'm gaining muscle mass and I feel like all my training is mass and I feel like all my training is mass and I feel like all my training is like the most important thing. And I like the most important thing. And I like the most important thing. And I think that we need think that we need think that we need >> generally speaking, I think people >> generally speaking, I think people >> generally speaking, I think people should become more obsessed with should become more obsessed with should become more obsessed with training and less obsessed with protein. training and less obsessed with protein. training and less obsessed with protein. Like the protein will complement the Like the protein will complement the Like the protein will complement the training. And as you mentioned, if training. And as you mentioned, if training. And as you mentioned, if you're training perhaps your appetite you're training perhaps your appetite you're training perhaps your appetite for protein will increase and so you'll for protein will increase and so you'll for protein will increase and so you'll start to eat, you know, more protein and start to eat, you know, more protein and start to eat, you know, more protein and less refined carbohydrates. I already less refined carbohydrates. I already less refined carbohydrates. I already wasn't eating a lot of refined wasn't eating a lot of refined wasn't eating a lot of refined ultrarocessed foods in the first place. ultrarocessed foods in the first place. ultrarocessed foods in the first place. >> Probably not the answer you were >> Probably not the answer you were >> Probably not the answer you were expecting, but expecting, but expecting, but >> it's it's really u for me like I I just >> it's it's really u for me like I I just >> it's it's really u for me like I I just focusing on getting more protein was was focusing on getting more protein was was focusing on getting more protein was was not working for my body um in terms of not working for my body um in terms of not working for my body um in terms of but then again I'm 47 years old. You but then again I'm 47 years old. You but then again I'm 47 years old. You know that per menopause phase very know that per menopause phase very know that per menopause phase very different than someone who's 37 maybe. different than someone who's 37 maybe. different than someone who's 37 maybe. >> I don't know the answer to that. But I I >> I don't know the answer to that. But I I >> I don't know the answer to that. But I I um I do know that I hear from more and um I do know that I hear from more and um I do know that I hear from more and more people these days that they are more people these days that they are more people these days that they are having a hard time getting that one gram having a hard time getting that one gram having a hard time getting that one gram of protein per pound of body weight. It of protein per pound of body weight. It of protein per pound of body weight. It feels like a lot to them is what they're feels like a lot to them is what they're feels like a lot to them is what they're saying. They feel like they're kind of saying. They feel like they're kind of saying. They feel like they're kind of forcing themselves to do it. forcing themselves to do it. forcing themselves to do it. >> You shouldn't feel that way. >> You shouldn't feel that way. >> You shouldn't feel that way. >> Exactly. So, I'm actually really pleased >> Exactly. So, I'm actually really pleased >> Exactly. So, I'm actually really pleased with your answer. Not because I have an with your answer. Not because I have an with your answer. Not because I have an agenda here, but because I and many agenda here, but because I and many agenda here, but because I and many other people seem to feel like unless other people seem to feel like unless other people seem to feel like unless there's a lot of resistance training or there's a lot of resistance training or there's a lot of resistance training or tremendous demands like hiking, you tremendous demands like hiking, you tremendous demands like hiking, you know, while backpacking where if you know, while backpacking where if you know, while backpacking where if you burn tons of calories, you're carrying burn tons of calories, you're carrying burn tons of calories, you're carrying you're basically rocking like 9 hours a you're basically rocking like 9 hours a you're basically rocking like 9 hours a day, right? That um they have a hard day, right? That um they have a hard day, right? That um they have a hard time getting that much protein down. Um time getting that much protein down. Um time getting that much protein down. Um and I think that's also the case if and I think that's also the case if and I think that's also the case if people are eating starches. Like I eat people are eating starches. Like I eat people are eating starches. Like I eat rice and oatmeal and some breads and rice and oatmeal and some breads and rice and oatmeal and some breads and things like that. Not a lot of bread, things like that. Not a lot of bread, things like that. Not a lot of bread, but you know, it sounds like you eat but you know, it sounds like you eat but you know, it sounds like you eat starches. starches. starches. >> I do eat oatmeal, too. It does satiate >> I do eat oatmeal, too. It does satiate >> I do eat oatmeal, too. It does satiate you these days because I really kind of you these days because I really kind of you these days because I really kind of more focused a little bit on I I did more focused a little bit on I I did more focused a little bit on I I did want to calorically restrict somewhat want to calorically restrict somewhat want to calorically restrict somewhat without, you know, being unhealthy. without, you know, being unhealthy. without, you know, being unhealthy. Obviously, you can take every stressor Obviously, you can take every stressor Obviously, you can take every stressor to a bad unhealthy place, right? You to a bad unhealthy place, right? You to a bad unhealthy place, right? You don't want to starve yourself. You don't don't want to starve yourself. You don't don't want to starve yourself. You don't want to like not eat enough food. But, want to like not eat enough food. But, want to like not eat enough food. But, um, my my meals are mostly like healthy um, my my meals are mostly like healthy um, my my meals are mostly like healthy protein. So, I have homemade turkey protein. So, I have homemade turkey protein. So, I have homemade turkey burgers. eat a lot of I eat a lot of burgers. eat a lot of I eat a lot of burgers. eat a lot of I eat a lot of those and then I eat chicken, you know, those and then I eat chicken, you know, those and then I eat chicken, you know, I pasture-raised chicken. I do I do I pasture-raised chicken. I do I do I pasture-raised chicken. I do I do still eat wild Alaskan salmon and then still eat wild Alaskan salmon and then still eat wild Alaskan salmon and then I'll um also mix in some like filet I'll um also mix in some like filet I'll um also mix in some like filet minion like I like grass-fed steak as minion like I like grass-fed steak as minion like I like grass-fed steak as well. well. well. >> Yum. >> Yum. >> Yum. >> Those are my protein sources. And always >> Those are my protein sources. And always >> Those are my protein sources. And always I pair it with greens. So or like some I pair it with greens. So or like some I pair it with greens. So or like some sort of vegetable. Most of the times sort of vegetable. Most of the times sort of vegetable. Most of the times it's it's greens because they're the it's it's greens because they're the it's it's greens because they're the most most micronutrient dense. And so most most micronutrient dense. And so most most micronutrient dense. And so these days I'm eating a lot of sauteed these days I'm eating a lot of sauteed these days I'm eating a lot of sauteed collard greens that are like collard greens that are like collard greens that are like pre-prepared has garlic and onion and pre-prepared has garlic and onion and pre-prepared has garlic and onion and I'll put that, you know, have that with I'll put that, you know, have that with I'll put that, you know, have that with my meal or I'll have some, you know, my meal or I'll have some, you know, my meal or I'll have some, you know, sauteed kale. Sometimes I'll have a sauteed kale. Sometimes I'll have a sauteed kale. Sometimes I'll have a salad with it, but the portions are salad with it, but the portions are salad with it, but the portions are smaller. And like I said, I I also do a smaller. And like I said, I I also do a smaller. And like I said, I I also do a little bit of intermittent fasting. We little bit of intermittent fasting. We little bit of intermittent fasting. We can talk about that as well, but that's can talk about that as well, but that's can talk about that as well, but that's kind of these days what I'm doing for my kind of these days what I'm doing for my kind of these days what I'm doing for my meals. I haven't eaten as much. meals. I haven't eaten as much. meals. I haven't eaten as much. Sometimes I'll eat the high protein Sometimes I'll eat the high protein Sometimes I'll eat the high protein oats. They have those high protein oats oats. They have those high protein oats oats. They have those high protein oats that have you have you seen those? No, I that have you have you seen those? No, I that have you have you seen those? No, I eat oatmeal, but I I like protein foods. eat oatmeal, but I I like protein foods. eat oatmeal, but I I like protein foods. I like vegetables. I like fruit. I feel I like vegetables. I like fruit. I feel I like vegetables. I like fruit. I feel very lucky to like those foods mainly. very lucky to like those foods mainly. very lucky to like those foods mainly. And then the starch for me has to be And then the starch for me has to be And then the starch for me has to be very clean. I like oatmeal, rice, very clean. I like oatmeal, rice, very clean. I like oatmeal, rice, >> homemade pastas I'll eat. Like if I go >> homemade pastas I'll eat. Like if I go >> homemade pastas I'll eat. Like if I go out, I'll have sometimes I'll have some out, I'll have sometimes I'll have some out, I'll have sometimes I'll have some homemade pasta or a sourdough bread or homemade pasta or a sourdough bread or homemade pasta or a sourdough bread or something. But I find that most starches something. But I find that most starches something. But I find that most starches that are out there in the world have a that are out there in the world have a that are out there in the world have a bunch of other junk in them. And I just bunch of other junk in them. And I just bunch of other junk in them. And I just feel lousy, get kind of sleepy feel lousy, get kind of sleepy feel lousy, get kind of sleepy afterwards. So I uh so it sounds like we afterwards. So I uh so it sounds like we afterwards. So I uh so it sounds like we eat pretty similarly although I probably eat pretty similarly although I probably eat pretty similarly although I probably eat more starches than you do. eat more starches than you do. eat more starches than you do. >> It's the more processed types of >> It's the more processed types of >> It's the more processed types of carbohydrates that as you mentioned it's carbohydrates that as you mentioned it's carbohydrates that as you mentioned it's like you typically you don't feel good like you typically you don't feel good like you typically you don't feel good after you eat them and you know part of after you eat them and you know part of after you eat them and you know part of that's the post prenial inflammatory that's the post prenial inflammatory that's the post prenial inflammatory response because some of those foods are response because some of those foods are response because some of those foods are a little more inflammatory. I mean a lot a little more inflammatory. I mean a lot a little more inflammatory. I mean a lot of additives and stuff that are of additives and stuff that are of additives and stuff that are affecting the gut gut permeabilization affecting the gut gut permeabilization affecting the gut gut permeabilization you're leaking lipopolyaccharide into you're leaking lipopolyaccharide into you're leaking lipopolyaccharide into the bloodstream right that's activating the bloodstream right that's activating the bloodstream right that's activating the immune system. We used to inject I the immune system. We used to inject I the immune system. We used to inject I don't do any animal experiments anymore don't do any animal experiments anymore don't do any animal experiments anymore and I'm actually grateful to not do and I'm actually grateful to not do and I'm actually grateful to not do them. So I didn't like working on them. So I didn't like working on them. So I didn't like working on animals but it was what we did until I animals but it was what we did until I animals but it was what we did until I decided to work on humans. But we used decided to work on humans. But we used decided to work on humans. But we used to inject LPS to inject LPS to inject LPS um to stimulate an inflammatory response um to stimulate an inflammatory response um to stimulate an inflammatory response to kind of prime a regeneration response to kind of prime a regeneration response to kind of prime a regeneration response that you could get through macrofasages that you could get through macrofasages that you could get through macrofasages and things like that. And so LPS is a and things like that. And so LPS is a and things like that. And so LPS is a very potent way to generate local or very potent way to generate local or very potent way to generate local or even systemic inflammation. I think um even systemic inflammation. I think um even systemic inflammation. I think um hearing that some starches will hearing that some starches will hearing that some starches will stimulate LPS that's uh interesting. stimulate LPS that's uh interesting. stimulate LPS that's uh interesting. Squares with my experience. I'm not Squares with my experience. I'm not Squares with my experience. I'm not challenging. No, no, no. I'm I'm not challenging. No, no, no. I'm I'm not challenging. No, no, no. I'm I'm not challenging. It squares with my challenging. It squares with my challenging. It squares with my experiences. I'm one of these I never experiences. I'm one of these I never experiences. I'm one of these I never get stomach aches. I never get get stomach aches. I never get get stomach aches. I never get headaches. If I do, something's badly headaches. If I do, something's badly headaches. If I do, something's badly wrong with my stomach or my head. But if wrong with my stomach or my head. But if wrong with my stomach or my head. But if I eat certain starches, I'll be like, I eat certain starches, I'll be like, I eat certain starches, I'll be like, "Oh, like I feel lousy and I'm wondering "Oh, like I feel lousy and I'm wondering "Oh, like I feel lousy and I'm wondering if it's this." if it's this." if it's this." >> So, we have about a gram of LPS in our >> So, we have about a gram of LPS in our >> So, we have about a gram of LPS in our gut. Like that's on average because you gut. Like that's on average because you gut. Like that's on average because you know lipopolyaccharide is the outer know lipopolyaccharide is the outer know lipopolyaccharide is the outer component of the cell membrane of gram component of the cell membrane of gram component of the cell membrane of gram negative bacteria right yeast negative bacteria right yeast negative bacteria right yeast >> we have a lot of bacteria in our gut >> we have a lot of bacteria in our gut >> we have a lot of bacteria in our gut gram negative bacteria right trillions gram negative bacteria right trillions gram negative bacteria right trillions of bacteria in our gut so um when when of bacteria in our gut so um when when of bacteria in our gut so um when when we eat food typically like our gut we eat food typically like our gut we eat food typically like our gut epithelial cells they we have a tight epithelial cells they we have a tight epithelial cells they we have a tight junction that's holding them together junction that's holding them together junction that's holding them together when we eat food they transiently open when we eat food they transiently open when we eat food they transiently open and then close like it's kind of a and then close like it's kind of a and then close like it's kind of a normal response right normal response right normal response right >> um the the I would say the opposite end >> um the the I would say the opposite end >> um the the I would say the opposite end of the spectrum of that would be like of the spectrum of that would be like of the spectrum of that would be like celiac where they eat gluten or celiac where they eat gluten or celiac where they eat gluten or something, it opens up and stays open something, it opens up and stays open something, it opens up and stays open and so you get like a ton of LPS leakage and so you get like a ton of LPS leakage and so you get like a ton of LPS leakage into the system which causes massive into the system which causes massive into the system which causes massive inflammation. inflammation. inflammation. >> It just happens with meals in general. >> It just happens with meals in general. >> It just happens with meals in general. You do get somewhat of a LPS response You do get somewhat of a LPS response You do get somewhat of a LPS response from a meal. Now, the type of meal does from a meal. Now, the type of meal does from a meal. Now, the type of meal does matter. So, when I when I say matter. So, when I when I say matter. So, when I when I say >> refined carbohydrates, it's not >> refined carbohydrates, it's not >> refined carbohydrates, it's not necessarily like healthy, you know, necessarily like healthy, you know, necessarily like healthy, you know, carbohydrates like vegetables. It's like carbohydrates like vegetables. It's like carbohydrates like vegetables. It's like you're eating something that is refined you're eating something that is refined you're eating something that is refined sugar typically with saturated fat. So sugar typically with saturated fat. So sugar typically with saturated fat. So those types of foods really cause like those types of foods really cause like those types of foods really cause like LPS response. You know, it's it's it's LPS response. You know, it's it's it's LPS response. You know, it's it's it's inflammation. It's bad. It's hard on the inflammation. It's bad. It's hard on the inflammation. It's bad. It's hard on the gut. But the postprandial inflammatory gut. But the postprandial inflammatory gut. But the postprandial inflammatory response essentially is that LPS getting response essentially is that LPS getting response essentially is that LPS getting into the system activating the immune into the system activating the immune into the system activating the immune system which draws the energy. I mean, system which draws the energy. I mean, system which draws the energy. I mean, it's like it's very energy consuming to it's like it's very energy consuming to it's like it's very energy consuming to activate your immune system, right? activate your immune system, right? activate your immune system, right? Which why that's why when you're sick, Which why that's why when you're sick, Which why that's why when you're sick, you're so sleepy, too, right? Well, you're so sleepy, too, right? Well, you're so sleepy, too, right? Well, there's also cytoines that are sologenic there's also cytoines that are sologenic there's also cytoines that are sologenic and promoting sleep, but like activating and promoting sleep, but like activating and promoting sleep, but like activating your immune system requires a ton of your immune system requires a ton of your immune system requires a ton of energy. And so when you're constantly energy. And so when you're constantly energy. And so when you're constantly activating the immune system, you know, activating the immune system, you know, activating the immune system, you know, that's an energy sink, right? And so you that's an energy sink, right? And so you that's an energy sink, right? And so you do feel tired. And that's why a lot of do feel tired. And that's why a lot of do feel tired. And that's why a lot of times after a meal, you're feeling kind times after a meal, you're feeling kind times after a meal, you're feeling kind of lethargic. of lethargic. of lethargic. >> Do protein foods uh of the sort that you >> Do protein foods uh of the sort that you >> Do protein foods uh of the sort that you listed off before um do they cause less listed off before um do they cause less listed off before um do they cause less uh opening of the tight junctions of the uh opening of the tight junctions of the uh opening of the tight junctions of the gut? I think the the the big deal with gut? I think the the the big deal with gut? I think the the the big deal with the the opening of the tight junctions the the opening of the tight junctions the the opening of the tight junctions in the gut is, you know, I mean, eating in the gut is, you know, I mean, eating in the gut is, you know, I mean, eating eating a big meal will do it. Eating a eating a big meal will do it. Eating a eating a big meal will do it. Eating a very like ultrarocessed food meal will very like ultrarocessed food meal will very like ultrarocessed food meal will do it. do it. do it. >> Interestingly enough, just eating a >> Interestingly enough, just eating a >> Interestingly enough, just eating a bunch of saturated fat without a fiber bunch of saturated fat without a fiber bunch of saturated fat without a fiber matrix. So like like butter, you're just matrix. So like like butter, you're just matrix. So like like butter, you're just like eating butter. Don't ever do that. like eating butter. Don't ever do that. like eating butter. Don't ever do that. But like if you just eat butter, But like if you just eat butter, But like if you just eat butter, >> that's been shown. My niece when she was >> that's been shown. My niece when she was >> that's been shown. My niece when she was little, now she's all grown up, but when little, now she's all grown up, but when little, now she's all grown up, but when she was little, I uh I taught her how to she was little, I uh I taught her how to she was little, I uh I taught her how to eat like a little bit of KY Gold butter eat like a little bit of KY Gold butter eat like a little bit of KY Gold butter and she loved it. So then we would do and she loved it. So then we would do and she loved it. So then we would do this thing where we'd we do that. Um we this thing where we'd we do that. Um we this thing where we'd we do that. Um we won't do that anymore. won't do that anymore. won't do that anymore. >> I mean, a little bit's fine, but like >> I mean, a little bit's fine, but like >> I mean, a little bit's fine, but like I'm I mean there's there's studies I'm I mean there's there's studies I'm I mean there's there's studies showing that it does like saturated fat showing that it does like saturated fat showing that it does like saturated fat is hard on the gut. is hard on the gut. is hard on the gut. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Like I said, it's a sliding scale. Like >> Like I said, it's a sliding scale. Like >> Like I said, it's a sliding scale. Like meals in general do it, but it's like meals in general do it, but it's like meals in general do it, but it's like you would it's like you would think the you would it's like you would think the you would it's like you would think the healthier foods that you're eating like healthier foods that you're eating like healthier foods that you're eating like whole foods, you're getting less of that whole foods, you're getting less of that whole foods, you're getting less of that LPS response. And then of course there's LPS response. And then of course there's LPS response. And then of course there's gluten and that complicates the whole gluten and that complicates the whole gluten and that complicates the whole story especially for people that are story especially for people that are story especially for people that are celiac right because that's celiac right because that's celiac right because that's >> which is a small percentage of people >> which is a small percentage of people >> which is a small percentage of people are actually celiac right but a lot of are actually celiac right but a lot of are actually celiac right but a lot of people seem to believe and I believe people seem to believe and I believe people seem to believe and I believe them that when they eat gluten they feel them that when they eat gluten they feel them that when they eat gluten they feel worse than when they don't eat gluten worse than when they don't eat gluten worse than when they don't eat gluten >> I'm sure there's some people that are >> I'm sure there's some people that are >> I'm sure there's some people that are sensitive to gluten that do feel worse sensitive to gluten that do feel worse sensitive to gluten that do feel worse and then I'm sure some of that's the and then I'm sure some of that's the and then I'm sure some of that's the noibo effect right that's been shown noibo effect right that's been shown noibo effect right that's been shown with gluten in in particular did you with gluten in in particular did you with gluten in in particular did you have you seen that study where people have you seen that study where people have you seen that study where people there's been so so there were people there's been so so there were people there's been so so there were people that think they're, you know, glut that think they're, you know, glut that think they're, you know, glut gluten sensitive. And so they were gluten sensitive. And so they were gluten sensitive. And so they were enrolled in this study and um these enrolled in this study and um these enrolled in this study and um these individuals were separated into two individuals were separated into two individuals were separated into two groups. One group was getting given the groups. One group was getting given the groups. One group was getting given the gluten bread with gluten and the other gluten bread with gluten and the other gluten bread with gluten and the other group was given the bread without group was given the bread without group was given the bread without gluten. And the people that were given gluten. And the people that were given gluten. And the people that were given the bread without gluten had a terrible, the bread without gluten had a terrible, the bread without gluten had a terrible, you know, abdominal like they were you know, abdominal like they were you know, abdominal like they were bloated. They felt terrible. I mean, it bloated. They felt terrible. I mean, it bloated. They felt terrible. I mean, it was all and there was no gluten in the was all and there was no gluten in the was all and there was no gluten in the actual bread, but they thought there actual bread, but they thought there actual bread, but they thought there was. So it was thought that there's a was. So it was thought that there's a was. So it was thought that there's a noibo effect where it's like the noibo effect where it's like the noibo effect where it's like the opposite of a placebo effect where you opposite of a placebo effect where you opposite of a placebo effect where you just you you've got that phenotype where just you you've got that phenotype where just you you've got that phenotype where you think things negative are going to you think things negative are going to you think things negative are going to happen and you can make them happen. You happen and you can make them happen. You happen and you can make them happen. You can change your immune system, you can can change your immune system, you can can change your immune system, you can change your brain signaling and you know change your brain signaling and you know change your brain signaling and you know so probably a combination of both with so probably a combination of both with so probably a combination of both with that regard that regard that regard >> in addition to like the lethargy. So >> in addition to like the lethargy. So >> in addition to like the lethargy. So we're I was talking about in the context we're I was talking about in the context we're I was talking about in the context that's why it sparked my you know that's why it sparked my you know that's why it sparked my you know interest is like you were talking about interest is like you were talking about interest is like you were talking about feeling tired after a meal and I do feeling tired after a meal and I do feeling tired after a meal and I do think that is part of that reason for think that is part of that reason for think that is part of that reason for feeling sleepy but you know what's feeling sleepy but you know what's feeling sleepy but you know what's interesting about LPS you talked about interesting about LPS you talked about interesting about LPS you talked about injecting it into mice and I've also injecting it into mice and I've also injecting it into mice and I've also done experiments injecting LPS into done experiments injecting LPS into done experiments injecting LPS into mice. There have been studies where mice. There have been studies where mice. There have been studies where people have been injected with an amount people have been injected with an amount people have been injected with an amount of LPS that is, you know, similar to of LPS that is, you know, similar to of LPS that is, you know, similar to what you would find your gut releasing what you would find your gut releasing what you would find your gut releasing into your bloodstream or a placebo into your bloodstream or a placebo into your bloodstream or a placebo control, which in this case was saline. control, which in this case was saline. control, which in this case was saline. And individuals that were injected with And individuals that were injected with And individuals that were injected with the LPS, high amounts of inflammatory the LPS, high amounts of inflammatory the LPS, high amounts of inflammatory markers like TNF alpha, I mean, we're markers like TNF alpha, I mean, we're markers like TNF alpha, I mean, we're talking like up to 50% increase talking like up to 50% increase talking like up to 50% increase >> o over baseline, right? So high amounts >> o over baseline, right? So high amounts >> o over baseline, right? So high amounts of inflammation, which makes sense. LPS of inflammation, which makes sense. LPS of inflammation, which makes sense. LPS is activating the immune your immune is activating the immune your immune is activating the immune your immune system is like there's a foreign system is like there's a foreign system is like there's a foreign invader, right? It's not a foreign invader, right? It's not a foreign invader, right? It's not a foreign invader. It's just the food you ate that invader. It's just the food you ate that invader. It's just the food you ate that caused transient gut permeability. caused transient gut permeability. caused transient gut permeability. >> And those individuals also feel >> And those individuals also feel >> And those individuals also feel depressive symptoms and feelings of like depressive symptoms and feelings of like depressive symptoms and feelings of like social withdrawal. So the inflammation social withdrawal. So the inflammation social withdrawal. So the inflammation is affecting the brain, right? These is affecting the brain, right? These is affecting the brain, right? These inflammatory factors are getting the inflammatory factors are getting the inflammatory factors are getting the brain, crossing the bloodb brain barrier brain, crossing the bloodb brain barrier brain, crossing the bloodb brain barrier and affecting the way we feel. And we and affecting the way we feel. And we and affecting the way we feel. And we know now that inflammation plays a big know now that inflammation plays a big know now that inflammation plays a big role in major depressive disorder and role in major depressive disorder and role in major depressive disorder and depression. Not in all cases, but depression. Not in all cases, but depression. Not in all cases, but there's a subset, right, where it's there's a subset, right, where it's there's a subset, right, where it's really like it does. It seems to play a really like it does. It seems to play a really like it does. It seems to play a big role. In fact, interestingly, big role. In fact, interestingly, big role. In fact, interestingly, there's been some studies showing that there's been some studies showing that there's been some studies showing that people that are that don't respond to people that are that don't respond to people that are that don't respond to SSRIs are have very high amounts of C SSRIs are have very high amounts of C SSRIs are have very high amounts of C reactive protein. So, this was the reactive protein. So, this was the reactive protein. So, this was the biomarker for a classical biomarker for biomarker for a classical biomarker for biomarker for a classical biomarker for inflammation. I would argue it's not inflammation. I would argue it's not inflammation. I would argue it's not that sensitive, but nonetheless, it is a that sensitive, but nonetheless, it is a that sensitive, but nonetheless, it is a biomarker for inflammation. And so, biomarker for inflammation. And so, biomarker for inflammation. And so, people that um don't respond to SSRIs people that um don't respond to SSRIs people that um don't respond to SSRIs have high amounts of inflammation, which have high amounts of inflammation, which have high amounts of inflammation, which kind of raises this question of is there kind of raises this question of is there kind of raises this question of is there like this subset of depression that's like this subset of depression that's like this subset of depression that's really inflammatory driven, right? Um really inflammatory driven, right? Um really inflammatory driven, right? Um interesting. So, so the LPS is affecting interesting. So, so the LPS is affecting interesting. So, so the LPS is affecting not only our our energy levels but also not only our our energy levels but also not only our our energy levels but also our mood. our mood. our mood. >> And then you know there's there's also >> And then you know there's there's also >> And then you know there's there's also evidence that so we know that LPS evidence that so we know that LPS evidence that so we know that LPS binds to LDL particles through lipid binds to LDL particles through lipid binds to LDL particles through lipid lipid interactions. And in fact, lipid interactions. And in fact, lipid interactions. And in fact, it's kind of part of the adaptive it's kind of part of the adaptive it's kind of part of the adaptive response. It's why you don't want to response. It's why you don't want to response. It's why you don't want to ever go get your cholesterol measured ever go get your cholesterol measured ever go get your cholesterol measured like after right after you're sick or like after right after you're sick or like after right after you're sick or had a very stressful event, something had a very stressful event, something had a very stressful event, something that causes inflammation because you that causes inflammation because you that causes inflammation because you will increase VLDL production increases will increase VLDL production increases will increase VLDL production increases and LDL production increases and it's and LDL production increases and it's and LDL production increases and it's sort of an adaptive response to bind sort of an adaptive response to bind sort of an adaptive response to bind that LPS to prevent it from you know that LPS to prevent it from you know that LPS to prevent it from you know causing more damage and so it actually causing more damage and so it actually causing more damage and so it actually binds to LDL particles on the apo binds to LDL particles on the apo binds to LDL particles on the apo protein. So apo B is a protein that is protein. So apo B is a protein that is protein. So apo B is a protein that is on these lipoproteins and it's a a very on these lipoproteins and it's a a very on these lipoproteins and it's a a very important protein because that is what's important protein because that is what's important protein because that is what's used by the LDL receptors present on our used by the LDL receptors present on our used by the LDL receptors present on our liver to recycle LDL particles. And so liver to recycle LDL particles. And so liver to recycle LDL particles. And so what happens is these these LPS what happens is these these LPS what happens is these these LPS particles are now bound to you know our particles are now bound to you know our particles are now bound to you know our our lipoproteins and our lipoproteins our lipoproteins and our lipoproteins our lipoproteins and our lipoproteins are still doing their function right are still doing their function right are still doing their function right they're going around and they're they're they're going around and they're they're they're going around and they're they're they're giving you know triglycerides they're giving you know triglycerides they're giving you know triglycerides and and fatty acids and to some degree and and fatty acids and to some degree and and fatty acids and to some degree cholesterol to our cells that need it cholesterol to our cells that need it cholesterol to our cells that need it right we're constantly making new cells right we're constantly making new cells right we're constantly making new cells and repairing and we our cells need that and repairing and we our cells need that and repairing and we our cells need that as they donate triglycerides and fatty as they donate triglycerides and fatty as they donate triglycerides and fatty acids they get smaller in size the acids they get smaller in size the acids they get smaller in size the lipoproteins you probably heard of small lipoproteins you probably heard of small lipoproteins you probably heard of small dense LDL right like that's a very dense LDL right like that's a very dense LDL right like that's a very dangerous type of LDL article and that's dangerous type of LDL article and that's dangerous type of LDL article and that's one that's kind of been donating along one that's kind of been donating along one that's kind of been donating along getting rid of tro triglycerides and um getting rid of tro triglycerides and um getting rid of tro triglycerides and um whatever if you think about a train with whatever if you think about a train with whatever if you think about a train with cargo it's donating the you know cargo it's donating the you know cargo it's donating the you know dropping off the cargo and so um when dropping off the cargo and so um when dropping off the cargo and so um when it's time to get recycled back into the it's time to get recycled back into the it's time to get recycled back into the liver what do you know the apo proteins liver what do you know the apo proteins liver what do you know the apo proteins obscured by that LPS and it's not obscured by that LPS and it's not obscured by that LPS and it's not recycled and so it gets lodged into the recycled and so it gets lodged into the recycled and so it gets lodged into the arterial wall and because there's an LPS arterial wall and because there's an LPS arterial wall and because there's an LPS bound to this you know small dense LDL bound to this you know small dense LDL bound to this you know small dense LDL particle particle particle macrofasages which are as you mentioned macrofasages which are as you mentioned macrofasages which are as you mentioned it's like the first line of defense it's like the first line of defense it's like the first line of defense against something like a bacterial against something like a bacterial against something like a bacterial invader right it comes and chews it up invader right it comes and chews it up invader right it comes and chews it up right gets rid of the problem so right gets rid of the problem so right gets rid of the problem so macrofasages come in because they're macrofasages come in because they're macrofasages come in because they're seeing this signal of LPS and think it's seeing this signal of LPS and think it's seeing this signal of LPS and think it's a foreign invader when it's actually a foreign invader when it's actually a foreign invader when it's actually just a small dense LDL particle bound to just a small dense LDL particle bound to just a small dense LDL particle bound to LPS that came from the gut tries to LPS that came from the gut tries to LPS that came from the gut tries to engulf it but it can't because it's not engulf it but it can't because it's not engulf it but it can't because it's not bacteria and you get the macrofase stuck bacteria and you get the macrofase stuck bacteria and you get the macrofase stuck to that to that to that >> lipoprotein LPS you know complex and you >> lipoprotein LPS you know complex and you >> lipoprotein LPS you know complex and you get the formation of a foam cell. You get the formation of a foam cell. You get the formation of a foam cell. You probably heard of a foam cell. It's the probably heard of a foam cell. It's the probably heard of a foam cell. It's the beginning of atheroscerosis. And so this beginning of atheroscerosis. And so this beginning of atheroscerosis. And so this is where gut health and the food we eat is where gut health and the food we eat is where gut health and the food we eat is sort of it's linked to cardiovascular is sort of it's linked to cardiovascular is sort of it's linked to cardiovascular health, right? Gut permeability, getting health, right? Gut permeability, getting health, right? Gut permeability, getting that LPS into our circulation. It's that LPS into our circulation. It's that LPS into our circulation. It's actually not a very good thing because actually not a very good thing because actually not a very good thing because you're you're basically, you know, slow you're you're basically, you know, slow you're you're basically, you know, slow dripping in that inflam inflammation, dripping in that inflam inflammation, dripping in that inflam inflammation, that inflammatory signal and it's that inflammatory signal and it's that inflammatory signal and it's wreaking havoc in our arteries, on our wreaking havoc in our arteries, on our wreaking havoc in our arteries, on our brain. As many of you know, I've been brain. As many of you know, I've been brain. As many of you know, I've been taking AG1 for nearly 15 years now. I taking AG1 for nearly 15 years now. I taking AG1 for nearly 15 years now. I discovered it way back in 2012, long discovered it way back in 2012, long discovered it way back in 2012, long before I ever had a podcast, and I've before I ever had a podcast, and I've before I ever had a podcast, and I've been taking it every day since. The been taking it every day since. The been taking it every day since. The reason I started taking it, and the reason I started taking it, and the reason I started taking it, and the reason I still take it, is because AG1 reason I still take it, is because AG1 reason I still take it, is because AG1 is, to my knowledge, the highest quality is, to my knowledge, the highest quality is, to my knowledge, the highest quality and most comprehensive of the and most comprehensive of the and most comprehensive of the foundational nutritional supplements on foundational nutritional supplements on foundational nutritional supplements on the market. It combines vitamins, the market. It combines vitamins, the market. It combines vitamins, minerals, prebiotics, probiotics, and minerals, prebiotics, probiotics, and minerals, prebiotics, probiotics, and adaptogens into a single scoop that's adaptogens into a single scoop that's adaptogens into a single scoop that's easy to drink, and it tastes great. It's easy to drink, and it tastes great. It's easy to drink, and it tastes great. It's designed to support things like gut designed to support things like gut designed to support things like gut health, immune health, and overall health, immune health, and overall health, immune health, and overall energy. And it does so by helping to energy. And it does so by helping to energy. And it does so by helping to fill any gaps you might have in your fill any gaps you might have in your fill any gaps you might have in your daily nutrition. Now, of course, daily nutrition. Now, of course, daily nutrition. Now, of course, everyone should strive to eat nutritious everyone should strive to eat nutritious everyone should strive to eat nutritious whole foods. I certainly do that every whole foods. I certainly do that every whole foods. I certainly do that every day. But I'm often asked, if you could day. But I'm often asked, if you could day. But I'm often asked, if you could take just one supplement, what would take just one supplement, what would take just one supplement, what would that supplement be? And my answer is that supplement be? And my answer is that supplement be? And my answer is always AG1 because it has just been oh always AG1 because it has just been oh always AG1 because it has just been oh so critical to supporting all aspects of so critical to supporting all aspects of so critical to supporting all aspects of my physical health, mental health, and my physical health, mental health, and my physical health, mental health, and performance. 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Thank you for explaining that so clearly because I don't think that so clearly because I don't think that so clearly because I don't think anyone has ever explained how exactly anyone has ever explained how exactly anyone has ever explained how exactly gut health is signaling cardiovascular gut health is signaling cardiovascular gut health is signaling cardiovascular health or pushing or pulling down on or health or pushing or pulling down on or health or pushing or pulling down on or raising cardiovascular health. As a raising cardiovascular health. As a raising cardiovascular health. As a neuro guy, I think about the vagus nerve neuro guy, I think about the vagus nerve neuro guy, I think about the vagus nerve as the primary conduit between gut and as the primary conduit between gut and as the primary conduit between gut and brain and it I was recalling that LPS brain and it I was recalling that LPS brain and it I was recalling that LPS injected into the gut is how you injected into the gut is how you injected into the gut is how you actually experimentally induce a fever actually experimentally induce a fever actually experimentally induce a fever because the and if you cut the Vegas no because the and if you cut the Vegas no because the and if you cut the Vegas no fever. So there's this there seems to be fever. So there's this there seems to be fever. So there's this there seems to be something about the way that the gut something about the way that the gut something about the way that the gut communicates with with the brain and communicates with with the brain and communicates with with the brain and other organs that is critically other organs that is critically other organs that is critically dependent on the uh some threshold level dependent on the uh some threshold level dependent on the uh some threshold level of of of LPS. And thank you also for of of of LPS. And thank you also for of of of LPS. And thank you also for reminding us that LPS is present in the reminding us that LPS is present in the reminding us that LPS is present in the gut because we have yeast in our gut, gut because we have yeast in our gut, gut because we have yeast in our gut, some amount of of yeast. You mentioned some amount of of yeast. You mentioned some amount of of yeast. You mentioned tight junctions and the way I think tight junctions and the way I think tight junctions and the way I think about tight junctions, please correct me about tight junctions, please correct me about tight junctions, please correct me because I'm going to get some or all of because I'm going to get some or all of because I'm going to get some or all of this wrong, is that essentially uh they this wrong, is that essentially uh they this wrong, is that essentially uh they form like a a cellar fence in the gut form like a a cellar fence in the gut form like a a cellar fence in the gut and that transient opening or partial and that transient opening or partial and that transient opening or partial opening of these is a normal process. opening of these is a normal process. opening of these is a normal process. But it sounds like after a meal some But it sounds like after a meal some But it sounds like after a meal some bacteria when you say leaks out into our bacteria when you say leaks out into our bacteria when you say leaks out into our system, it's literally going into the system, it's literally going into the system, it's literally going into the bloodstream. So now we have bacteria bloodstream. So now we have bacteria bloodstream. So now we have bacteria circulating and if some of that is small circulating and if some of that is small circulating and if some of that is small enough to get across the bloodb brain enough to get across the bloodb brain enough to get across the bloodb brain barrier that's another way that bacteria barrier that's another way that bacteria barrier that's another way that bacteria can start to cause inflammation at the can start to cause inflammation at the can start to cause inflammation at the at the brain level. at the brain level. at the brain level. >> It's LPS which is like the outer >> It's LPS which is like the outer >> It's LPS which is like the outer component of bacteria that have died. component of bacteria that have died. component of bacteria that have died. >> Um actual live bacteria getting in. I >> Um actual live bacteria getting in. I >> Um actual live bacteria getting in. I don't know as much about that perhaps as don't know as much about that perhaps as don't know as much about that perhaps as well, but I know that the LPS is getting well, but I know that the LPS is getting well, but I know that the LPS is getting in and I do know that the LPS, you know, in and I do know that the LPS, you know, in and I do know that the LPS, you know, activating the immune system and stuff activating the immune system and stuff activating the immune system and stuff and the resident gal cells and stuff in and the resident gal cells and stuff in and the resident gal cells and stuff in the in the brain um does break down the the in the brain um does break down the the in the brain um does break down the bloodb brain barrier. It's like the bloodb brain barrier. It's like the bloodb brain barrier. It's like the early like we know neuroinflammation early like we know neuroinflammation early like we know neuroinflammation is really some of the early parts of is really some of the early parts of is really some of the early parts of breaking down of the bloodb brain breaking down of the bloodb brain breaking down of the bloodb brain barrier which is the early stages of barrier which is the early stages of barrier which is the early stages of neurodeenerative disease. it is how the neurodeenerative disease. it is how the neurodeenerative disease. it is how the gut is gut health is linked to the brain gut is gut health is linked to the brain gut is gut health is linked to the brain and to neurogenerative disease as well. and to neurogenerative disease as well. and to neurogenerative disease as well. So, um it's the inflammation I think So, um it's the inflammation I think So, um it's the inflammation I think that's really um it's it's really that's really um it's it's really that's really um it's it's really powerful in terms of it's it's a driver powerful in terms of it's it's a driver powerful in terms of it's it's a driver of the aging process in general like of the aging process in general like of the aging process in general like this inflammation inflammaging you've this inflammation inflammaging you've this inflammation inflammaging you've you've heard of inflammaging you know I you've heard of inflammaging you know I you've heard of inflammaging you know I think I think now it's pretty clear to think I think now it's pretty clear to think I think now it's pretty clear to me that is if you're thinking about the me that is if you're thinking about the me that is if you're thinking about the molecular events that are leading to molecular events that are leading to molecular events that are leading to these hallmarks of aging which lead to these hallmarks of aging which lead to these hallmarks of aging which lead to the phenotypes and you know frailty and the phenotypes and you know frailty and the phenotypes and you know frailty and the diseases right like type two the diseases right like type two the diseases right like type two diabetes, cancer, Alzheimer's disease, diabetes, cancer, Alzheimer's disease, diabetes, cancer, Alzheimer's disease, like go upstream of that and the like go upstream of that and the like go upstream of that and the inflammation is at the core of it. And inflammation is at the core of it. And inflammation is at the core of it. And so we hear this word inflammation a lot so we hear this word inflammation a lot so we hear this word inflammation a lot and it's like what does it mean? You and it's like what does it mean? You and it's like what does it mean? You know, and it's a lot it means a lot of know, and it's a lot it means a lot of know, and it's a lot it means a lot of things. It's not just the gut. The gut things. It's not just the gut. The gut things. It's not just the gut. The gut is a a component of it, but there's is a a component of it, but there's is a a component of it, but there's other things as well, right? I mean, you other things as well, right? I mean, you other things as well, right? I mean, you can have stress, um, you know, any can have stress, um, you know, any can have stress, um, you know, any emotional stress like that can lead to emotional stress like that can lead to emotional stress like that can lead to inflammation. Um, not getting enough inflammation. Um, not getting enough inflammation. Um, not getting enough sleep, right? There's a lot of things sleep, right? There's a lot of things sleep, right? There's a lot of things that can that can lead to inflammation that can that can lead to inflammation that can that can lead to inflammation and um so it is kind of an important and um so it is kind of an important and um so it is kind of an important point to think about is is really like point to think about is is really like point to think about is is really like trying to have your inflammation low, trying to have your inflammation low, trying to have your inflammation low, right? And how do you do that? right? And how do you do that? right? And how do you do that? >> I'm going to take three different >> I'm going to take three different >> I'm going to take three different jumping off points here, all related to jumping off points here, all related to jumping off points here, all related to what you said. So, um don't think I'm a what you said. So, um don't think I'm a what you said. So, um don't think I'm a random uh subject generator here. We random uh subject generator here. We random uh subject generator here. We will get back to fasting, I promise. will get back to fasting, I promise. will get back to fasting, I promise. Lately, you've posted a bit about Lately, you've posted a bit about Lately, you've posted a bit about glutamine as a potential tool to perhaps glutamine as a potential tool to perhaps glutamine as a potential tool to perhaps buffer the immune system under times of buffer the immune system under times of buffer the immune system under times of stress. I've also been interested in uh stress. I've also been interested in uh stress. I've also been interested in uh llutamine as a way to reinforce tight llutamine as a way to reinforce tight llutamine as a way to reinforce tight junctions in the gut. I don't know if junctions in the gut. I don't know if junctions in the gut. I don't know if that literature is robust or not. I have that literature is robust or not. I have that literature is robust or not. I have to say I started taking llutamine years to say I started taking llutamine years to say I started taking llutamine years ago in times when I was working a lot, ago in times when I was working a lot, ago in times when I was working a lot, not sleeping enough because someone told not sleeping enough because someone told not sleeping enough because someone told me it would help me not get sick. And me it would help me not get sick. And me it would help me not get sick. And indeed, I didn't get sick as much as the indeed, I didn't get sick as much as the indeed, I didn't get sick as much as the imaginary control experiment that I imaginary control experiment that I imaginary control experiment that I never got to do. Meaning, I don't know never got to do. Meaning, I don't know never got to do. Meaning, I don't know if it helped or not, but I continue to if it helped or not, but I continue to if it helped or not, but I continue to take uh llutamine uh when I'm feeling take uh llutamine uh when I'm feeling take uh llutamine uh when I'm feeling run down. I take a couple of other run down. I take a couple of other run down. I take a couple of other things, too. But could you tell us about things, too. But could you tell us about things, too. But could you tell us about how or if or how llutamine is important how or if or how llutamine is important how or if or how llutamine is important for gut health and if and how elutamine for gut health and if and how elutamine for gut health and if and how elutamine might be helpful for reinforcing the might be helpful for reinforcing the might be helpful for reinforcing the immune system? There's not a ton of immune system? There's not a ton of immune system? There's not a ton of evidence in terms of like what's in the evidence in terms of like what's in the evidence in terms of like what's in the scientific literature supporting these scientific literature supporting these scientific literature supporting these statements, but there is some, you know, statements, but there is some, you know, statements, but there is some, you know, and it's enough to kind of go, well, I'm and it's enough to kind of go, well, I'm and it's enough to kind of go, well, I'm going to try to maybe experiment with going to try to maybe experiment with going to try to maybe experiment with it. So, you know, I first became it. So, you know, I first became it. So, you know, I first became interested in in glutamine because when interested in in glutamine because when interested in in glutamine because when I was doing my graduate research, I was I was doing my graduate research, I was I was doing my graduate research, I was doing a lot of cancer metabolism studies doing a lot of cancer metabolism studies doing a lot of cancer metabolism studies and I would do nutrient withdrawal and I and I would do nutrient withdrawal and I and I would do nutrient withdrawal and I would, you know, remove glucose from would, you know, remove glucose from would, you know, remove glucose from cancer cells and see what would happen. cancer cells and see what would happen. cancer cells and see what would happen. And it's like, okay, well, I would get I And it's like, okay, well, I would get I And it's like, okay, well, I would get I would remove glucose from from, you would remove glucose from from, you would remove glucose from from, you know, lymphoma, cancer cells in the know, lymphoma, cancer cells in the know, lymphoma, cancer cells in the petri dish, and a lot of them would die, petri dish, and a lot of them would die, petri dish, and a lot of them would die, but they wouldn't all die. And it was but they wouldn't all die. And it was but they wouldn't all die. And it was like, why aren't they all dying? Turns like, why aren't they all dying? Turns like, why aren't they all dying? Turns out, well, they had glutamine there. So, out, well, they had glutamine there. So, out, well, they had glutamine there. So, glutamine was enough to sustain them. glutamine was enough to sustain them. glutamine was enough to sustain them. Um, and and so glutamine can be Um, and and so glutamine can be Um, and and so glutamine can be converted into many things. So, converted into many things. So, converted into many things. So, glutamine can be an amino acid, right? glutamine can be an amino acid, right? glutamine can be an amino acid, right? It's amino acid. Glutamine can be It's amino acid. Glutamine can be It's amino acid. Glutamine can be converted into the um the KB cycle. So converted into the um the KB cycle. So converted into the um the KB cycle. So it can be converted into intermediates it can be converted into intermediates it can be converted into intermediates that are used to make energy by the that are used to make energy by the that are used to make energy by the mitochondria and glutamine can be mitochondria and glutamine can be mitochondria and glutamine can be converted into glutamate, right? converted into glutamate, right? converted into glutamate, right? Neurotransmitter, right? So there's a Neurotransmitter, right? So there's a Neurotransmitter, right? So there's a lot of pathways and different fates for lot of pathways and different fates for lot of pathways and different fates for glutamine. So I um became interested in glutamine. So I um became interested in glutamine. So I um became interested in in that because it was like oh in that because it was like oh in that because it was like oh glutamine's important for the survival glutamine's important for the survival glutamine's important for the survival of these cancer cells. Um then I was of these cancer cells. Um then I was of these cancer cells. Um then I was doing a lot of activating immune cell doing a lot of activating immune cell doing a lot of activating immune cell studies as you know my my graduate studies as you know my my graduate studies as you know my my graduate adviser uh is an immunologist by adviser uh is an immunologist by adviser uh is an immunologist by training and so I was also doing that. training and so I was also doing that. training and so I was also doing that. Turns out glutamine was essential for Turns out glutamine was essential for Turns out glutamine was essential for the activation of immune cells. So that the activation of immune cells. So that the activation of immune cells. So that was kind of always in the background of was kind of always in the background of was kind of always in the background of my mind. And then in my postto I did my my mind. And then in my postto I did my my mind. And then in my postto I did my postto with Dr. Bruce Ames and my postto with Dr. Bruce Ames and my postto with Dr. Bruce Ames and my colleague Dr. Mark Shaganaga was doing a colleague Dr. Mark Shaganaga was doing a colleague Dr. Mark Shaganaga was doing a lot of gut work and this is why I know a lot of gut work and this is why I know a lot of gut work and this is why I know a lot about the LPS and the gut like it's lot about the LPS and the gut like it's lot about the LPS and the gut like it's from him like brilliant guy. He's now a from him like brilliant guy. He's now a from him like brilliant guy. He's now a photographer, like not in science at photographer, like not in science at photographer, like not in science at all, but brilliant guy and did a lot of all, but brilliant guy and did a lot of all, but brilliant guy and did a lot of really amazing experiments looking at, really amazing experiments looking at, really amazing experiments looking at, you know, gut permeability and things you know, gut permeability and things you know, gut permeability and things that can help buffer, you know, gut that can help buffer, you know, gut that can help buffer, you know, gut permeability. And one of those things permeability. And one of those things permeability. And one of those things were glutamine. So glutamine can get were glutamine. So glutamine can get were glutamine. So glutamine can get converted into these intermediates that converted into these intermediates that converted into these intermediates that are used by mitochondria in the gut are used by mitochondria in the gut are used by mitochondria in the gut epithelial cells. And so that's like an epithelial cells. And so that's like an epithelial cells. And so that's like an easy source of energy as well for the easy source of energy as well for the easy source of energy as well for the gut. Now, these are all animal studies, gut. Now, these are all animal studies, gut. Now, these are all animal studies, right? So take it with a grain of salt, right? So take it with a grain of salt, right? So take it with a grain of salt, right? cuz at some point, you know, in right? cuz at some point, you know, in right? cuz at some point, you know, in my in my opinion, animal studies are are my in my opinion, animal studies are are my in my opinion, animal studies are are really important for understanding the really important for understanding the really important for understanding the mechanism behind why things work and we mechanism behind why things work and we mechanism behind why things work and we need human studies, you know, as well. need human studies, you know, as well. need human studies, you know, as well. Looking at the totality of evidence is Looking at the totality of evidence is Looking at the totality of evidence is important. It's the human studies that important. It's the human studies that important. It's the human studies that were lacking. There's not a ton of them were lacking. There's not a ton of them were lacking. There's not a ton of them there. The ones that I have found more there. The ones that I have found more there. The ones that I have found more compelling, um, not necessarily, I mean, compelling, um, not necessarily, I mean, compelling, um, not necessarily, I mean, with the gut health, it's it's, you with the gut health, it's it's, you with the gut health, it's it's, you know, it's sparse with humans. um I know, it's sparse with humans. um I know, it's sparse with humans. um I found more compelling with respect to found more compelling with respect to found more compelling with respect to glutamine and human studies was the glutamine and human studies was the glutamine and human studies was the immune system. And this is where I immune system. And this is where I immune system. And this is where I started putting connecting the dots, started putting connecting the dots, started putting connecting the dots, right? Where I started coming across right? Where I started coming across right? Where I started coming across this literature of these endurance this literature of these endurance this literature of these endurance athletes who do get a higher amount of athletes who do get a higher amount of athletes who do get a higher amount of respiratory tract infections, you know, respiratory tract infections, you know, respiratory tract infections, you know, like when I mean endurance athletes, I like when I mean endurance athletes, I like when I mean endurance athletes, I mean these guys that are like outr mean these guys that are like outr mean these guys that are like outr running marathons all year. Like they're running marathons all year. Like they're running marathons all year. Like they're just constantly training for a marathon, just constantly training for a marathon, just constantly training for a marathon, right? right? right? >> And so they're really like they're >> And so they're really like they're >> And so they're really like they're putting a lot of demand, right? putting a lot of demand, right? putting a lot of demand, right? energetic expenditure is happening at a energetic expenditure is happening at a energetic expenditure is happening at a really high rate. So, um they are really high rate. So, um they are really high rate. So, um they are they're more prone to respiratory they're more prone to respiratory they're more prone to respiratory infections. And there's a few studies infections. And there's a few studies infections. And there's a few studies out there showing that if these athletes out there showing that if these athletes out there showing that if these athletes take a higher dose of glutamine, I think take a higher dose of glutamine, I think take a higher dose of glutamine, I think it's like 30 grams or something high it's like 30 grams or something high it's like 30 grams or something high like that, that they had a lower like that, that they had a lower like that, that they had a lower incidence of respiratory tract incidence of respiratory tract incidence of respiratory tract infections than ones that weren't doing infections than ones that weren't doing infections than ones that weren't doing it. And then I went back to my, oh, I it. And then I went back to my, oh, I it. And then I went back to my, oh, I know that glutamine is really important know that glutamine is really important know that glutamine is really important for T- cell activation. And I was like, for T- cell activation. And I was like, for T- cell activation. And I was like, I'm going to take this because being I'm going to take this because being I'm going to take this because being being a being a mom and having a child being a being a mom and having a child being a being a mom and having a child that's bringing everything home like a that's bringing everything home like a that's bringing everything home like a vector, you know, you're like desperate. vector, you know, you're like desperate. vector, you know, you're like desperate. You're the experiment. You're the experiment. You're the experiment. >> Yeah. Exactly. And I never used to get >> Yeah. Exactly. And I never used to get >> Yeah. Exactly. And I never used to get sick ever. Like I would never get sick. sick ever. Like I would never get sick. sick ever. Like I would never get sick. And then all of a sudden I was getting And then all of a sudden I was getting And then all of a sudden I was getting sick like three times a year and I was sick like three times a year and I was sick like three times a year and I was like, do I have cancer? Like what's like, do I have cancer? Like what's like, do I have cancer? Like what's going on? Like I I literally was like going on? Like I I literally was like going on? Like I I literally was like worried. Um and and then I started worried. Um and and then I started worried. Um and and then I started taking glutamine. Now, I take it just I taking glutamine. Now, I take it just I taking glutamine. Now, I take it just I only take five grams on a daily basis, only take five grams on a daily basis, only take five grams on a daily basis, but if if my son's sick, if there's any but if if my son's sick, if there's any but if if my son's sick, if there's any exposure, if it's like during the exposure, if it's like during the exposure, if it's like during the season, if I'm traveling, I go up to 15. season, if I'm traveling, I go up to 15. season, if I'm traveling, I go up to 15. I go up to 20 I go up to 20 I go up to 20 >> at once because it can be a little hard >> at once because it can be a little hard >> at once because it can be a little hard on the gut, right? on the gut, right? on the gut, right? >> Not all at once. Not all at once. I >> Not all at once. Not all at once. I >> Not all at once. Not all at once. I usually do it like in fives. So, I do usually do it like in fives. So, I do usually do it like in fives. So, I do five grams, five grams, five grams. And, five grams, five grams, five grams. And, five grams, five grams, five grams. And, you know, I have to with a caveat of I you know, I have to with a caveat of I you know, I have to with a caveat of I do that, but I also take a lot of do that, but I also take a lot of do that, but I also take a lot of creatine as well. And so, I don't know creatine as well. And so, I don't know creatine as well. And so, I don't know which one or both, which one or both, which one or both, >> but like I really don't get sick. I'm >> but like I really don't get sick. I'm >> but like I really don't get sick. I'm not getting sick and even even if it's not getting sick and even even if it's not getting sick and even even if it's brought home in my house, I'm not brought home in my house, I'm not brought home in my house, I'm not getting sick. And maybe it's a placebo getting sick. And maybe it's a placebo getting sick. And maybe it's a placebo and you know what, I am a-ok okay with and you know what, I am a-ok okay with and you know what, I am a-ok okay with that because placebo effect is real as that because placebo effect is real as that because placebo effect is real as long as I'm not getting sick. Um, so I long as I'm not getting sick. Um, so I long as I'm not getting sick. Um, so I do think I think with the glutamine, you do think I think with the glutamine, you do think I think with the glutamine, you know, it's not something that I would know, it's not something that I would know, it's not something that I would feel comfortable saying that it's feel comfortable saying that it's feel comfortable saying that it's there's a lot of evidence. It's there's a lot of evidence. It's there's a lot of evidence. It's overwhelming and with confidence that overwhelming and with confidence that overwhelming and with confidence that it's improving gut health and it's it's improving gut health and it's it's improving gut health and it's improving immune, you know, it's going improving immune, you know, it's going improving immune, you know, it's going to help give your immune cells energy to help give your immune cells energy to help give your immune cells energy particularly if they need to be particularly if they need to be particularly if they need to be activated, you know, upon exposure to activated, you know, upon exposure to activated, you know, upon exposure to any pathogen. But I feel like it's worth any pathogen. But I feel like it's worth any pathogen. But I feel like it's worth experimenting with. Um perhaps maybe if experimenting with. Um perhaps maybe if experimenting with. Um perhaps maybe if someone has colon cancer, that would be someone has colon cancer, that would be someone has colon cancer, that would be more of a concern because I did mention more of a concern because I did mention more of a concern because I did mention that cancer cells, cancer cells love that cancer cells, cancer cells love that cancer cells, cancer cells love everything, anything that's good for everything, anything that's good for everything, anything that's good for you, right? Folate, I mean, if you don't you, right? Folate, I mean, if you don't you, right? Folate, I mean, if you don't have enough folate, you can cause double have enough folate, you can cause double have enough folate, you can cause double stranded breaks to your DNA which lead stranded breaks to your DNA which lead stranded breaks to your DNA which lead to mutations that lead to cancer. But if to mutations that lead to cancer. But if to mutations that lead to cancer. But if you have cancer and you take a bunch of you have cancer and you take a bunch of you have cancer and you take a bunch of folate, you need folate to make new DNA folate, you need folate to make new DNA folate, you need folate to make new DNA and so they like the folate, right? So and so they like the folate, right? So and so they like the folate, right? So it's like it's like it's like >> it's an abnormal growth. So, anything >> it's an abnormal growth. So, anything >> it's an abnormal growth. So, anything that's associated with drug mtor I saw that's associated with drug mtor I saw that's associated with drug mtor I saw the recent study on torine which scared the recent study on torine which scared the recent study on torine which scared a lot of people because torine's in a a lot of people because torine's in a a lot of people because torine's in a lot of energy drinks but that was an in lot of energy drinks but that was an in lot of energy drinks but that was an in vitro study. Um vitro study. Um vitro study. Um >> yes I was going to ask you know um it is >> yes I was going to ask you know um it is >> yes I was going to ask you know um it is there increased cancer risk if you're there increased cancer risk if you're there increased cancer risk if you're supplementing with glutamine because supplementing with glutamine because supplementing with glutamine because cancer cells like glutamine. cancer cells like glutamine. cancer cells like glutamine. >> So my personal opinion I'm obviously not >> So my personal opinion I'm obviously not >> So my personal opinion I'm obviously not a medical physician. This is not a a medical physician. This is not a a medical physician. This is not a prescription. It's just my opinion. I I prescription. It's just my opinion. I I prescription. It's just my opinion. I I personally am not scared of getting personally am not scared of getting personally am not scared of getting cancer from taking glutamine. cancer from taking glutamine. cancer from taking glutamine. If I had a colon tumor and a tumor in my If I had a colon tumor and a tumor in my If I had a colon tumor and a tumor in my colon, the the first site that the colon, the the first site that the colon, the the first site that the glutamine is seeing maybe the liver as glutamine is seeing maybe the liver as glutamine is seeing maybe the liver as well since that's also the next step. well since that's also the next step. well since that's also the next step. But uh barring like having a tumor But uh barring like having a tumor But uh barring like having a tumor already in my liver or in my colon, already in my liver or in my colon, already in my liver or in my colon, those would be the only, you know, types those would be the only, you know, types those would be the only, you know, types of situations that I would be worried of situations that I would be worried of situations that I would be worried about taking glutamine. I don't think about taking glutamine. I don't think about taking glutamine. I don't think it's going to cause cancer. Right now, I it's going to cause cancer. Right now, I it's going to cause cancer. Right now, I guess the question is like what if you guess the question is like what if you guess the question is like what if you don't know you have? don't know you have? don't know you have? >> Well, hopefully the cost will come down >> Well, hopefully the cost will come down >> Well, hopefully the cost will come down on whole body MRIs. actually the cost is on whole body MRIs. actually the cost is on whole body MRIs. actually the cost is coming down on whole body MRIs that coming down on whole body MRIs that coming down on whole body MRIs that hopefully more people are able to get hopefully more people are able to get hopefully more people are able to get those. It's not just such a high-end those. It's not just such a high-end those. It's not just such a high-end exclusive thing in the near future. Kind exclusive thing in the near future. Kind exclusive thing in the near future. Kind of like blood draws used to be like like of like blood draws used to be like like of like blood draws used to be like like panels of blood testing. You only got panels of blood testing. You only got panels of blood testing. You only got them if you really needed them. Now the them if you really needed them. Now the them if you really needed them. Now the cost of blood draws is really low, cost of blood draws is really low, cost of blood draws is really low, right? right? right? >> So hopefully uh people will be more >> So hopefully uh people will be more >> So hopefully uh people will be more aware. aware. aware. >> Yeah, I I >> Yeah, I I >> Yeah, I I will take a tablespoon of glutamine once will take a tablespoon of glutamine once will take a tablespoon of glutamine once or twice or three times a day if I'm or twice or three times a day if I'm or twice or three times a day if I'm feeling run down. You mentioned being feeling run down. You mentioned being feeling run down. You mentioned being exposed to pathogens from vectors of exposed to pathogens from vectors of exposed to pathogens from vectors of different sorts. Before we went on, different sorts. Before we went on, different sorts. Before we went on, Mike, we were talking about Knack an Mike, we were talking about Knack an Mike, we were talking about Knack an acetylcysteine. Um, I take it once a day acetylcysteine. Um, I take it once a day acetylcysteine. Um, I take it once a day uh consistently, but I'll take it three uh consistently, but I'll take it three uh consistently, but I'll take it three times a day if I'm traveling a lot times a day if I'm traveling a lot times a day if I'm traveling a lot because I'm around sick people when I because I'm around sick people when I because I'm around sick people when I travel, especially in winter. Um, or if travel, especially in winter. Um, or if travel, especially in winter. Um, or if I feel like I'm getting run down. And I feel like I'm getting run down. And I feel like I'm getting run down. And there the data are pretty interesting. there the data are pretty interesting. there the data are pretty interesting. There's at least one study showing that There's at least one study showing that There's at least one study showing that it reduced flu transmission um where it reduced flu transmission um where it reduced flu transmission um where people were deliberately exposed to flu. people were deliberately exposed to flu. people were deliberately exposed to flu. I think it took the number of people I think it took the number of people I think it took the number of people that contracted flu compared to the that contracted flu compared to the that contracted flu compared to the placebo group somewhere from the high placebo group somewhere from the high placebo group somewhere from the high 70% 70% 70% area. I'm don't remember the exact area. I'm don't remember the exact area. I'm don't remember the exact number now. We'll put a link to the number now. We'll put a link to the number now. We'll put a link to the study down to maybe high 20s which is study down to maybe high 20s which is study down to maybe high 20s which is pretty impressive. And an ER doc came on pretty impressive. And an ER doc came on pretty impressive. And an ER doc came on this podcast uh Roger Schwelt who um and this podcast uh Roger Schwelt who um and this podcast uh Roger Schwelt who um and said he was a big proponent of of said he was a big proponent of of said he was a big proponent of of analysteine for people that are around analysteine for people that are around analysteine for people that are around sick people. sick people. sick people. >> Do you take knack? So my only concern >> Do you take knack? So my only concern >> Do you take knack? So my only concern with taking on a daily basis is it is a with taking on a daily basis is it is a with taking on a daily basis is it is a pretty powerful antioxidant pretty powerful antioxidant pretty powerful antioxidant >> and you know >> and you know >> and you know >> I think that we need to understand like >> I think that we need to understand like >> I think that we need to understand like antioxidants antioxidants antioxidants and the opposite which should be and the opposite which should be and the opposite which should be generating oxidation right like generating oxidation right like generating oxidation right like >> it's not it's not like oxidation is bad >> it's not it's not like oxidation is bad >> it's not it's not like oxidation is bad it's bad when it's constant slow drip it's bad when it's constant slow drip it's bad when it's constant slow drip oxidation that's damaging you know other oxidation that's damaging you know other oxidation that's damaging you know other parts of our body DNA proteins lipids parts of our body DNA proteins lipids parts of our body DNA proteins lipids some oxidation you want like if you're some oxidation you want like if you're some oxidation you want like if you're exercising right there's a burst of exercising right there's a burst of exercising right there's a burst of oxidation oxidation oxidation >> to get the adaptation >> to get the adaptation >> to get the adaptation >> to get the adaptations and so my concern >> to get the adaptations and so my concern >> to get the adaptations and so my concern would be for one maybe timing it around would be for one maybe timing it around would be for one maybe timing it around your exercise so not taking it close to your exercise so not taking it close to your exercise so not taking it close to when you're exercising and these studies when you're exercising and these studies when you're exercising and these studies come out of you know studies that have come out of you know studies that have come out of you know studies that have been done with highdose vitamin E plus been done with highdose vitamin E plus been done with highdose vitamin E plus vitamin C I haven't seen a lot of vitamin C I haven't seen a lot of vitamin C I haven't seen a lot of vitamin C studies alone that are vitamin C studies alone that are vitamin C studies alone that are blunting exercise adaptations there's blunting exercise adaptations there's blunting exercise adaptations there's maybe one at a high dose most of the maybe one at a high dose most of the maybe one at a high dose most of the time it's vitamin C and vitamin E time it's vitamin C and vitamin E time it's vitamin C and vitamin E vitamin E alpha tcopherol when I say vitamin E alpha tcopherol when I say vitamin E alpha tcopherol when I say high dose Usually it's 400 IUs. Just to high dose Usually it's 400 IUs. Just to high dose Usually it's 400 IUs. Just to give you a reference point, the RDA is give you a reference point, the RDA is give you a reference point, the RDA is like 24 IUs or something. So we're like 24 IUs or something. So we're like 24 IUs or something. So we're talking talking talking >> But a supplement can be 200 to 800. So >> But a supplement can be 200 to 800. So >> But a supplement can be 200 to 800. So it wouldn't be hard to blunt that it wouldn't be hard to blunt that it wouldn't be hard to blunt that exercise effect by accidentally. Yeah. I exercise effect by accidentally. Yeah. I exercise effect by accidentally. Yeah. I don't take vitamin E. It spiked my don't take vitamin E. It spiked my don't take vitamin E. It spiked my prostate specific antigen, which I was prostate specific antigen, which I was prostate specific antigen, which I was told is a is a known effect among told is a is a known effect among told is a is a known effect among urologists. urologists. urologists. >> The select trial was done. So the select >> The select trial was done. So the select >> The select trial was done. So the select trial was um was looking at selenium and trial was um was looking at selenium and trial was um was looking at selenium and vitamin E and if it could slow the vitamin E and if it could slow the vitamin E and if it could slow the progression of prostate cancer and it progression of prostate cancer and it progression of prostate cancer and it turned out that um the opposite was turned out that um the opposite was turned out that um the opposite was found and it was really kind of due to found and it was really kind of due to found and it was really kind of due to this high dose of alpha tcopherol which this high dose of alpha tcopherol which this high dose of alpha tcopherol which also has other effects of um lowering also has other effects of um lowering also has other effects of um lowering another type of vitamin E in the body another type of vitamin E in the body another type of vitamin E in the body called gamma tcopherol which is called gamma tcopherol which is called gamma tcopherol which is anti-inflammatory and I think that has anti-inflammatory and I think that has anti-inflammatory and I think that has something to do with inflammation something to do with inflammation something to do with inflammation actually can increase the PSA right actually can increase the PSA right actually can increase the PSA right >> so anyways Um, the point here is that >> so anyways Um, the point here is that >> so anyways Um, the point here is that with Knack, my only concern would be, with Knack, my only concern would be, with Knack, my only concern would be, you know, blunting the the oxidation you know, blunting the the oxidation you know, blunting the the oxidation that you're getting from beneficial that you're getting from beneficial that you're getting from beneficial because I know you're highly active. because I know you're highly active. because I know you're highly active. >> I'm training hard. I don't want my train >> I'm training hard. I don't want my train >> I'm training hard. I don't want my train to be shortcircuited from Knack. I'm to be shortcircuited from Knack. I'm to be shortcircuited from Knack. I'm perfectly happy to only take Knack if perfectly happy to only take Knack if perfectly happy to only take Knack if I'm feeling run down or exposed to um I'm feeling run down or exposed to um I'm feeling run down or exposed to um illnesses around me where I feel like illnesses around me where I feel like illnesses around me where I feel like that's when I take it, but it's mostly that's when I take it, but it's mostly that's when I take it, but it's mostly because of I wasn't familiar with the because of I wasn't familiar with the because of I wasn't familiar with the flu influenza data. That's interesting. flu influenza data. That's interesting. flu influenza data. That's interesting. I was just it's good for lung health too I was just it's good for lung health too I was just it's good for lung health too like so although if smokers take it I like so although if smokers take it I like so although if smokers take it I think it has the opposite effect where think it has the opposite effect where think it has the opposite effect where again it's like the can the the again it's like the can the the again it's like the can the the precancerous cells are using it to their precancerous cells are using it to their precancerous cells are using it to their benefit you know we used to think benefit you know we used to think benefit you know we used to think antioxidants oh it's so good you know antioxidants oh it's so good you know antioxidants oh it's so good you know just more more more and it turns out just more more more and it turns out just more more more and it turns out it's not the case right like and that's it's not the case right like and that's it's not the case right like and that's why a lot of these other types of why a lot of these other types of why a lot of these other types of hormetic stressors or plant hormetic stressors or plant hormetic stressors or plant phytochemicals they're actually phytochemicals they're actually phytochemicals they're actually generating an antioxidant response generating an antioxidant response generating an antioxidant response endogenously in our body by activating endogenously in our body by activating endogenously in our body by activating these antioxidant pathways which are so these antioxidant pathways which are so these antioxidant pathways which are so much more powerful than what you would much more powerful than what you would much more powerful than what you would get from an antioxidant, right? And so get from an antioxidant, right? And so get from an antioxidant, right? And so that's kind of it's not that you don't that's kind of it's not that you don't that's kind of it's not that you don't want some antioxidants, it's just like want some antioxidants, it's just like want some antioxidants, it's just like you don't want to overdose on taking too you don't want to overdose on taking too you don't want to overdose on taking too much knack and too much vitamin C and much knack and too much vitamin C and much knack and too much vitamin C and too much vitamin E because there's also too much vitamin E because there's also too much vitamin E because there's also something called reductive stress. So we something called reductive stress. So we something called reductive stress. So we know about oxidative stress. Oxidative know about oxidative stress. Oxidative know about oxidative stress. Oxidative stress is when you're, you know, you're stress is when you're, you know, you're stress is when you're, you know, you're you're again, you're causing these these you're again, you're causing these these you're again, you're causing these these reactive oxygen species to damage things reactive oxygen species to damage things reactive oxygen species to damage things like your DNA, for example, and over like your DNA, for example, and over like your DNA, for example, and over time eventually that happens in a part time eventually that happens in a part time eventually that happens in a part of the gene that can be encogenic and of the gene that can be encogenic and of the gene that can be encogenic and lead to cancer. Well, reductive stress lead to cancer. Well, reductive stress lead to cancer. Well, reductive stress is is like the opposite of that. So, is is like the opposite of that. So, is is like the opposite of that. So, it's like too much of the um reducing it's like too much of the um reducing it's like too much of the um reducing equivalents like the, you know, the equivalents like the, you know, the equivalents like the, you know, the NADH, the NADPH, the you know, so and it NADH, the NADPH, the you know, so and it NADH, the NADPH, the you know, so and it also has negative effects. So you kind also has negative effects. So you kind also has negative effects. So you kind of don't want to go too far on either of don't want to go too far on either of don't want to go too far on either ends of the of the spectrum, but also ends of the of the spectrum, but also ends of the of the spectrum, but also you want to instead of having this like you want to instead of having this like you want to instead of having this like slow leaking effect of these prooxidants slow leaking effect of these prooxidants slow leaking effect of these prooxidants where that are happening from eating a where that are happening from eating a where that are happening from eating a bad diet, from you know inflammation, bad diet, from you know inflammation, bad diet, from you know inflammation, things like that. You want it to be a things like that. You want it to be a things like that. You want it to be a short burst where you switch it on, you short burst where you switch it on, you short burst where you switch it on, you have the adaptation, it's off, right? have the adaptation, it's off, right? have the adaptation, it's off, right? And the adaptation the adaptation And the adaptation the adaptation And the adaptation the adaptation happens in the recovery period, right? happens in the recovery period, right? happens in the recovery period, right? When you're, for example, if you When you're, for example, if you When you're, for example, if you exercise, that's a big burst of reactive exercise, that's a big burst of reactive exercise, that's a big burst of reactive oxygen species that is beneficial and oxygen species that is beneficial and oxygen species that is beneficial and you want it, right? And you don't want you want it, right? And you don't want you want it, right? And you don't want to blunt those adaptations. And so to blunt those adaptations. And so to blunt those adaptations. And so that's that's kind of my concern with that's that's kind of my concern with that's that's kind of my concern with daily dosing of Knack. daily dosing of Knack. daily dosing of Knack. >> Great. I don't cold plunge in the 6 to8 >> Great. I don't cold plunge in the 6 to8 >> Great. I don't cold plunge in the 6 to8 hours after uh resistance training for hours after uh resistance training for hours after uh resistance training for exactly the reason you're talking about. exactly the reason you're talking about. exactly the reason you're talking about. Yeah. I want the inflammation. I want Yeah. I want the inflammation. I want Yeah. I want the inflammation. I want the increased blood flow. I don't want the increased blood flow. I don't want the increased blood flow. I don't want to short circuit that. I'm perfectly to short circuit that. I'm perfectly to short circuit that. I'm perfectly happy to only take Knack under happy to only take Knack under happy to only take Knack under conditions where I'm bit run down and conditions where I'm bit run down and conditions where I'm bit run down and and that's also when I I'll take and that's also when I I'll take and that's also when I I'll take glutamine. If you take llutamine glutamine. If you take llutamine glutamine. If you take llutamine regularly, I I personally observe that I regularly, I I personally observe that I regularly, I I personally observe that I get stronger um at a steady state of of get stronger um at a steady state of of get stronger um at a steady state of of starch intake. And I don't like dropping starch intake. And I don't like dropping starch intake. And I don't like dropping starches too low because I get weak. starches too low because I get weak. starches too low because I get weak. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I also can't sleep as well if my >> And I also can't sleep as well if my >> And I also can't sleep as well if my starches are too low. I just am too starches are too low. I just am too starches are too low. I just am too wired. wired. wired. >> Yeah. There's a there was a new study on >> Yeah. There's a there was a new study on >> Yeah. There's a there was a new study on on eating starches and improving sleep. on eating starches and improving sleep. on eating starches and improving sleep. >> Yeah. And I'm so grateful for that >> Yeah. And I'm so grateful for that >> Yeah. And I'm so grateful for that because for several years I talked about because for several years I talked about because for several years I talked about that on the podcast and people said, that on the podcast and people said, that on the podcast and people said, "Oh, you know, he's gorging himself with "Oh, you know, he's gorging himself with "Oh, you know, he's gorging himself with pasta and then passing out and that's pasta and then passing out and that's pasta and then passing out and that's the worst time." I wasn't saying that. the worst time." I wasn't saying that. the worst time." I wasn't saying that. I'm saying that if you're not if you're I'm saying that if you're not if you're I'm saying that if you're not if you're running like crazy, I'll hear from running like crazy, I'll hear from running like crazy, I'll hear from marathoners and ultra people when people marathoners and ultra people when people marathoners and ultra people when people are doing a million things. They'll say, are doing a million things. They'll say, are doing a million things. They'll say, "I'm not sleeping well." And they're "I'm not sleeping well." And they're "I'm not sleeping well." And they're exercising like crazy. It's like, "Well, exercising like crazy. It's like, "Well, exercising like crazy. It's like, "Well, when was the last time you had a bowl of when was the last time you had a bowl of when was the last time you had a bowl of pasta?" Like, "Oh, no. I don't eat pasta?" Like, "Oh, no. I don't eat pasta?" Like, "Oh, no. I don't eat pasta." And they're like, and then pasta." And they're like, and then pasta." And they're like, and then they'll have some rice or some pasta. they'll have some rice or some pasta. they'll have some rice or some pasta. Like, oh, I slept like a baby. And they Like, oh, I slept like a baby. And they Like, oh, I slept like a baby. And they were having it at lunch. Yeah. And I were having it at lunch. Yeah. And I were having it at lunch. Yeah. And I just think that the the brain doesn't just think that the the brain doesn't just think that the the brain doesn't shut down well when you have high levels shut down well when you have high levels shut down well when you have high levels of cortisol. And the cortisol starch of cortisol. And the cortisol starch of cortisol. And the cortisol starch thing is an interesting one. I'm so glad thing is an interesting one. I'm so glad thing is an interesting one. I'm so glad you brought this up because I think um you brought this up because I think um you brought this up because I think um this is something I did want to talk this is something I did want to talk this is something I did want to talk about really and it has to do with stop about really and it has to do with stop about really and it has to do with stop eating 3 hours before bed for that very eating 3 hours before bed for that very eating 3 hours before bed for that very reason. So there was a new even a new reason. So there was a new even a new reason. So there was a new even a new stud but there's been several studies stud but there's been several studies stud but there's been several studies now really showing that this is now really showing that this is now really showing that this is important for that cardiovascular reset important for that cardiovascular reset important for that cardiovascular reset right your parasympathetic activity is right your parasympathetic activity is right your parasympathetic activity is supposed to go higher. You're in your supposed to go higher. You're in your supposed to go higher. You're in your rest and recovery phase, right? When rest and recovery phase, right? When rest and recovery phase, right? When you're eating food, that's the you're eating food, that's the you're eating food, that's the sympathetic activity, right? You're sympathetic activity, right? You're sympathetic activity, right? You're that's activating the sympathetic that's activating the sympathetic that's activating the sympathetic nervous system nervous system nervous system >> as you're eating. Yeah. >> as you're eating. Yeah. >> as you're eating. Yeah. >> Yeah. And even as you're digesting. So, >> Yeah. And even as you're digesting. So, >> Yeah. And even as you're digesting. So, you have to think about it like you you have to think about it like you you have to think about it like you digest what it takes like five or so digest what it takes like five or so digest what it takes like five or so hours to fully finish about depending on hours to fully finish about depending on hours to fully finish about depending on the meal. the meal. the meal. >> Depending on the meal, right? So if >> Depending on the meal, right? So if >> Depending on the meal, right? So if you're eating, you know, right before you're eating, you know, right before you're eating, you know, right before you go to bed, you are you are you are you go to bed, you are you are you are you go to bed, you are you are you are not in that parasymp sympathetic not in that parasymp sympathetic not in that parasymp sympathetic activity, you know, part of the part of activity, you know, part of the part of activity, you know, part of the part of the, you know, cycle that you want to be the, you know, cycle that you want to be the, you know, cycle that you want to be in. So um there was a new even a new in. So um there was a new even a new in. So um there was a new even a new study that I shared like I don't know a study that I shared like I don't know a study that I shared like I don't know a couple days ago even showing that if you couple days ago even showing that if you couple days ago even showing that if you stop eating 3 hours before bed. So these stop eating 3 hours before bed. So these stop eating 3 hours before bed. So these people were actually um it's interesting people were actually um it's interesting people were actually um it's interesting there they had their blood pressure there they had their blood pressure there they had their blood pressure measured for starting in the mid measured for starting in the mid measured for starting in the mid afternoon all the way throughout the afternoon all the way throughout the afternoon all the way throughout the night. This is the first study that night. This is the first study that night. This is the first study that really not just one end point looking at really not just one end point looking at really not just one end point looking at blood pressure but just me measuring it blood pressure but just me measuring it blood pressure but just me measuring it continuously I don't know if it was continuously I don't know if it was continuously I don't know if it was every 15 minutes or something like that every 15 minutes or something like that every 15 minutes or something like that but um it was found that their during but um it was found that their during but um it was found that their during sleep if they had stopped eating 3 hours sleep if they had stopped eating 3 hours sleep if they had stopped eating 3 hours before bed versus the group that did not before bed versus the group that did not before bed versus the group that did not stop eating 3 hours before bed their stop eating 3 hours before bed their stop eating 3 hours before bed their blood pressure dipped like lower. So you blood pressure dipped like lower. So you blood pressure dipped like lower. So you get that you that barrerow reflex get that you that barrerow reflex get that you that barrerow reflex dipping right? So this is like part of dipping right? So this is like part of dipping right? So this is like part of the parasympathetic activation as you the parasympathetic activation as you the parasympathetic activation as you know very important for you the blood know very important for you the blood know very important for you the blood pressure to go down. heart rate went pressure to go down. heart rate went pressure to go down. heart rate went down like you know much much lower and down like you know much much lower and down like you know much much lower and that reset is so so important for that reset is so so important for that reset is so so important for cardiovascular health. I think what was cardiovascular health. I think what was cardiovascular health. I think what was found was it was something like um found was it was something like um found was it was something like um translated to like 20% lower risk of translated to like 20% lower risk of translated to like 20% lower risk of cardiovascular events like heart cardiovascular events like heart cardiovascular events like heart attacks. So it's really pretty attacks. So it's really pretty attacks. So it's really pretty significant. Yeah. And it really is an significant. Yeah. And it really is an significant. Yeah. And it really is an easy thing to do to think about stopping easy thing to do to think about stopping easy thing to do to think about stopping eating you know 3 hours before you go to eating you know 3 hours before you go to eating you know 3 hours before you go to bed. Like that's that's something I bed. Like that's that's something I bed. Like that's that's something I think that is not that hard to implement think that is not that hard to implement think that is not that hard to implement and it will improve your sleep as well and it will improve your sleep as well and it will improve your sleep as well as your cardiovascular health. Although as your cardiovascular health. Although as your cardiovascular health. Although I think in that study I don't know that I think in that study I don't know that I think in that study I don't know that sleep was really it was subjective and I sleep was really it was subjective and I sleep was really it was subjective and I don't think it really was improved more don't think it really was improved more don't think it really was improved more but other studies have found that as but other studies have found that as but other studies have found that as well that sleep does improve. I know well that sleep does improve. I know well that sleep does improve. I know Satchin Panda he's been on my podcast Satchin Panda he's been on my podcast Satchin Panda he's been on my podcast your podcast he's had studies showing your podcast he's had studies showing your podcast he's had studies showing that it seemed like stop stop eating that it seemed like stop stop eating that it seemed like stop stop eating three hours before bed really does seem three hours before bed really does seem three hours before bed really does seem to improve sleep. But this to improve sleep. But this to improve sleep. But this parasympathetic activation, you know, parasympathetic activation, you know, parasympathetic activation, you know, you don't want to have a meal right you don't want to have a meal right you don't want to have a meal right before your bed because you want you before your bed because you want you before your bed because you want you want to be in the rest and recovery want to be in the rest and recovery want to be in the rest and recovery part, right? part, right? part, right? >> So, >> So, >> So, >> yeah, I think people hear uh and I >> yeah, I think people hear uh and I >> yeah, I think people hear uh and I understand why the nomenclature and the understand why the nomenclature and the understand why the nomenclature and the buzzwords of, you know, fight or flight buzzwords of, you know, fight or flight buzzwords of, you know, fight or flight for sympathetic and rest and digest for for sympathetic and rest and digest for for sympathetic and rest and digest for parasympathetic, but yeah, the evidence parasympathetic, but yeah, the evidence parasympathetic, but yeah, the evidence shows eating stimulates the sympathetic shows eating stimulates the sympathetic shows eating stimulates the sympathetic nervous system. It's not a stress event, nervous system. It's not a stress event, nervous system. It's not a stress event, but it it's a but it it's a but it it's a >> it requires energy. Anything that >> it requires energy. Anything that >> it requires energy. Anything that requires energy raises body temperature requires energy raises body temperature requires energy raises body temperature and your body's doing work. and your body's doing work. and your body's doing work. >> It's an awake event. It's an you don't >> It's an awake event. It's an you don't >> It's an awake event. It's an you don't put it while you're sleeping. put it while you're sleeping. put it while you're sleeping. >> Yeah. And that's why these phrases, >> Yeah. And that's why these phrases, >> Yeah. And that's why these phrases, while I don't demonize anyone for while I don't demonize anyone for while I don't demonize anyone for creating the, you know, fight or flight. creating the, you know, fight or flight. creating the, you know, fight or flight. Well, I mean, there's ways that you want Well, I mean, there's ways that you want Well, I mean, there's ways that you want your sympathetic nervous system to your sympathetic nervous system to your sympathetic nervous system to activate that are not about fight or activate that are not about fight or activate that are not about fight or flight. Like I actually think if people flight. Like I actually think if people flight. Like I actually think if people just got the first hour of their day just got the first hour of their day just got the first hour of their day more active and energized, bright light, more active and energized, bright light, more active and energized, bright light, exercise, caffeine if you're me and Lord exercise, caffeine if you're me and Lord exercise, caffeine if you're me and Lord knows I'm grateful that caffeine exists knows I'm grateful that caffeine exists knows I'm grateful that caffeine exists in the first hour of the day or first in the first hour of the day or first in the first hour of the day or first hours if you can't manage that because hours if you can't manage that because hours if you can't manage that because of schedule and then the last hour of of schedule and then the last hour of of schedule and then the last hour of the day was strongly parasympathetic. I the day was strongly parasympathetic. I the day was strongly parasympathetic. I mean everything would get better without mean everything would get better without mean everything would get better without having to think a ton about exactly how having to think a ton about exactly how having to think a ton about exactly how you're doing that because on a given day you're doing that because on a given day you're doing that because on a given day you just do what you can you just do what you can you just do what you can >> and that's what you want, right? I mean >> and that's what you want, right? I mean >> and that's what you want, right? I mean so cortisol is circadian dependent as so cortisol is circadian dependent as so cortisol is circadian dependent as you know. I mean, in the like early you know. I mean, in the like early you know. I mean, in the like early morning of early hours of the morning, morning of early hours of the morning, morning of early hours of the morning, that's when you want it to peak, right? that's when you want it to peak, right? that's when you want it to peak, right? The part of the awakening response, like The part of the awakening response, like The part of the awakening response, like you want it to go up. And it's it's you want it to go up. And it's it's you want it to go up. And it's it's interesting. I I the reason I'm going on interesting. I I the reason I'm going on interesting. I I the reason I'm going on this is because it's a little bit of a this is because it's a little bit of a this is because it's a little bit of a um soap box for me, but so with with the um soap box for me, but so with with the um soap box for me, but so with with the with the cortisol activation, um people with the cortisol activation, um people with the cortisol activation, um people don't realize this, you know, obviously don't realize this, you know, obviously don't realize this, you know, obviously it's a hormone and it's binding to two it's a hormone and it's binding to two it's a hormone and it's binding to two different receptors. There's the different receptors. There's the different receptors. There's the gluccocorticoid receptor and then gluccocorticoid receptor and then gluccocorticoid receptor and then there's the mineral ocorticoid receptor. there's the mineral ocorticoid receptor. there's the mineral ocorticoid receptor. And both of those um when cortisol binds And both of those um when cortisol binds And both of those um when cortisol binds to it, they go into the nucleus of the to it, they go into the nucleus of the to it, they go into the nucleus of the cell and they're changing the cell and they're changing the cell and they're changing the expression. So they're activating genes expression. So they're activating genes expression. So they're activating genes and deactivating genes like 20% of the and deactivating genes like 20% of the and deactivating genes like 20% of the human genome. It's a large percentage, human genome. It's a large percentage, human genome. It's a large percentage, right? And this is on multiple different right? And this is on multiple different right? And this is on multiple different organs. So it's it cortisol has a very organs. So it's it cortisol has a very organs. So it's it cortisol has a very important role and you want that peak. important role and you want that peak. important role and you want that peak. You want that spike, right? That's what You want that spike, right? That's what You want that spike, right? That's what you want. And then you want it to shut you want. And then you want it to shut you want. And then you want it to shut off. And there are things that can off. And there are things that can off. And there are things that can activate it obviously like in the activate it obviously like in the activate it obviously like in the morning going out bright light exposure morning going out bright light exposure morning going out bright light exposure as you mentioned like that's very as you mentioned like that's very as you mentioned like that's very important for that cortisol awakening important for that cortisol awakening important for that cortisol awakening response but you can also like like response but you can also like like response but you can also like like intensity intense exercise can switch it intensity intense exercise can switch it intensity intense exercise can switch it on. Um, but what's interesting and so on. Um, but what's interesting and so on. Um, but what's interesting and so can intermittent fasting can intermittent fasting can intermittent fasting that it what's interesting is there's that it what's interesting is there's that it what's interesting is there's studies from Mark Matson's lab showing studies from Mark Matson's lab showing studies from Mark Matson's lab showing that you know the types of of of that you know the types of of of that you know the types of of of stressors that are beneficial these stressors that are beneficial these stressors that are beneficial these hormatic stressors like exercise like hormatic stressors like exercise like hormatic stressors like exercise like you know intermittent fasting um perhaps you know intermittent fasting um perhaps you know intermittent fasting um perhaps even cold exposure like these types of even cold exposure like these types of even cold exposure like these types of exposures change the receptor density of exposures change the receptor density of exposures change the receptor density of the receptors. So if you if you look at the receptors. So if you if you look at the receptors. So if you if you look at what activates cortisol in a negative what activates cortisol in a negative what activates cortisol in a negative way, chronic stress, let's say way, chronic stress, let's say way, chronic stress, let's say emotional, financial, psychological, um emotional, financial, psychological, um emotional, financial, psychological, um chronic sleep deprivation, right? That chronic sleep deprivation, right? That chronic sleep deprivation, right? That bad type of stress, you're getting bad type of stress, you're getting bad type of stress, you're getting you're not getting a big spike, you're you're not getting a big spike, you're you're not getting a big spike, you're getting a slow drip of it. And so what getting a slow drip of it. And so what getting a slow drip of it. And so what happens is when you have that type of happens is when you have that type of happens is when you have that type of stress, you're increasing the stress, you're increasing the stress, you're increasing the gluccocorticoid receptors and you're gluccocorticoid receptors and you're gluccocorticoid receptors and you're decreasing the minocorticoid receptors. decreasing the minocorticoid receptors. decreasing the minocorticoid receptors. There's a different biological response There's a different biological response There's a different biological response in the brain, in the hypothalamus, but in the brain, in the hypothalamus, but in the brain, in the hypothalamus, but also in, you know, other organs as well also in, you know, other organs as well also in, you know, other organs as well when you're when you're activating when you're when you're activating when you're when you're activating cortisol through a beneficial type of cortisol through a beneficial type of cortisol through a beneficial type of stress, the hormatic stressors like like stress, the hormatic stressors like like stress, the hormatic stressors like like intermittent fasting, like exercise. Um, intermittent fasting, like exercise. Um, intermittent fasting, like exercise. Um, I believe probably deliberate cold I believe probably deliberate cold I believe probably deliberate cold exposure as well where um it's a exposure as well where um it's a exposure as well where um it's a different biological response. And also, different biological response. And also, different biological response. And also, if you think about it, you know, you if you think about it, you know, you if you think about it, you know, you actually want cortisol to do its, you actually want cortisol to do its, you actually want cortisol to do its, you know, function. You want it to change know, function. You want it to change know, function. You want it to change the expression of that's what it's the expression of that's what it's the expression of that's what it's supposed to do, right? The problem is is supposed to do, right? The problem is is supposed to do, right? The problem is is when you have that slow drip, then you when you have that slow drip, then you when you have that slow drip, then you know, not only are you're you're know, not only are you're you're know, not only are you're you're increasing they're changing the increasing they're changing the increasing they're changing the receptor, you know, activation, but also receptor, you know, activation, but also receptor, you know, activation, but also they become resistant to the cortisol they become resistant to the cortisol they become resistant to the cortisol and so you're not getting the benefits. and so you're not getting the benefits. and so you're not getting the benefits. You know, cortisol represses You know, cortisol represses You know, cortisol represses inflammation, right? It's it suppresses inflammation, right? It's it suppresses inflammation, right? It's it suppresses the immune system, but like so you're the immune system, but like so you're the immune system, but like so you're not getting that anti-inflammatory not getting that anti-inflammatory not getting that anti-inflammatory effect from cortisol. It's being effect from cortisol. It's being effect from cortisol. It's being disregulated. And that's what you don't disregulated. And that's what you don't disregulated. And that's what you don't want. You don't want cortisol to be want. You don't want cortisol to be want. You don't want cortisol to be disregulated in terms of like the genes disregulated in terms of like the genes disregulated in terms of like the genes that it's supposed to activate or that it's supposed to activate or that it's supposed to activate or deactivate. You want it to be doing what deactivate. You want it to be doing what deactivate. You want it to be doing what it's supposed to. It's supposed to it's supposed to. It's supposed to it's supposed to. It's supposed to regulate. We're supposed to have the regulate. We're supposed to have the regulate. We're supposed to have the cortisol, you know, activation response. cortisol, you know, activation response. cortisol, you know, activation response. So, um, anyways, I that's something that So, um, anyways, I that's something that So, um, anyways, I that's something that I kind of want to clear in people's I kind of want to clear in people's I kind of want to clear in people's minds because I feel like a lot of minds because I feel like a lot of minds because I feel like a lot of people get worried about, oh my gosh, people get worried about, oh my gosh, people get worried about, oh my gosh, I'm doing, you know, HIT and it's I'm doing, you know, HIT and it's I'm doing, you know, HIT and it's activating my cortisol. Well, that's activating my cortisol. Well, that's activating my cortisol. Well, that's fine. It's like, you know, I mean, I fine. It's like, you know, I mean, I fine. It's like, you know, I mean, I guess if you do too much HIT, right, you guess if you do too much HIT, right, you guess if you do too much HIT, right, you can always take something to the can always take something to the can always take something to the extreme. Okay, with that caveat, extreme. Okay, with that caveat, extreme. Okay, with that caveat, obviously I'm not talking about that, obviously I'm not talking about that, obviously I'm not talking about that, >> but with that caveat, like you do you >> but with that caveat, like you do you >> but with that caveat, like you do you you want your body to be able to turn it you want your body to be able to turn it you want your body to be able to turn it on and then turn it off and have the on and then turn it off and have the on and then turn it off and have the adaptation, have the response, right? adaptation, have the response, right? adaptation, have the response, right? And like I said, it's a different And like I said, it's a different And like I said, it's a different biological response than than the biological response than than the biological response than than the chronic type of cortisol activation that chronic type of cortisol activation that chronic type of cortisol activation that you get with the bad types of stress. you get with the bad types of stress. you get with the bad types of stress. >> Yeah, I guess same goes for intermittent >> Yeah, I guess same goes for intermittent >> Yeah, I guess same goes for intermittent fasting. And maybe you could share with fasting. And maybe you could share with fasting. And maybe you could share with us what your intermittent fasting us what your intermittent fasting us what your intermittent fasting protocol is. I know that recently protocol is. I know that recently protocol is. I know that recently cortisol has been like increasingly cortisol has been like increasingly cortisol has been like increasingly demonized as the stress hormone stress demonized as the stress hormone stress demonized as the stress hormone stress hormone and people saw pictures of hormone and people saw pictures of hormone and people saw pictures of people with Cushings disease which is people with Cushings disease which is people with Cushings disease which is you know a drastically elevated cortisol you know a drastically elevated cortisol you know a drastically elevated cortisol and the moon face and the excessive and the moon face and the excessive and the moon face and the excessive visceral fat and and this this sort of visceral fat and and this this sort of visceral fat and and this this sort of um fearmongering around cortisol was um fearmongering around cortisol was um fearmongering around cortisol was particularly directed toward women and particularly directed toward women and particularly directed toward women and this entered the health fitness space this entered the health fitness space this entered the health fitness space because I think in an appropriate way because I think in an appropriate way because I think in an appropriate way I'll just be very direct here I don't I'll just be very direct here I don't I'll just be very direct here I don't like I no longer tap dance around who like I no longer tap dance around who like I no longer tap dance around who said, you know what, in a very said, you know what, in a very said, you know what, in a very appropriate way, um, that I appreciate, appropriate way, um, that I appreciate, appropriate way, um, that I appreciate, uh, Dr. Stacy Sims came on the podcast uh, Dr. Stacy Sims came on the podcast uh, Dr. Stacy Sims came on the podcast and she said, "Listen, some women and she said, "Listen, some women and she said, "Listen, some women shouldn't train fasted because they shouldn't train fasted because they shouldn't train fasted because they don't feel well when they train fasted don't feel well when they train fasted don't feel well when they train fasted and their cortisol is too high and so and their cortisol is too high and so and their cortisol is too high and so forth." That captured a lot of people's forth." That captured a lot of people's forth." That captured a lot of people's experience. A lot of women in experience. A lot of women in experience. A lot of women in particular, but some men certainly were particular, but some men certainly were particular, but some men certainly were like, "Yes, oh my god, thank you. Thank like, "Yes, oh my god, thank you. Thank like, "Yes, oh my god, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you." But then the you. Thank you. Thank you." But then the you. Thank you. Thank you." But then the they the message got contorted, right? they the message got contorted, right? they the message got contorted, right? as it does, right? And then it became as it does, right? And then it became as it does, right? And then it became women shouldn't train fasted. And then women shouldn't train fasted. And then women shouldn't train fasted. And then we had Lauren Keno Simple on this we had Lauren Keno Simple on this we had Lauren Keno Simple on this podcast who's a, you know, trained as a podcast who's a, you know, trained as a podcast who's a, you know, trained as a PhD. She has a background in nutrition, PhD. She has a background in nutrition, PhD. She has a background in nutrition, physiology, strength training coach, physiology, strength training coach, physiology, strength training coach, etc. And she said, "No, listen, you can etc. And she said, "No, listen, you can etc. And she said, "No, listen, you can train fasted or not fasted as a woman or train fasted or not fasted as a woman or train fasted or not fasted as a woman or a man. It's kind of your preference, but a man. It's kind of your preference, but a man. It's kind of your preference, but that we don't need to fear these that we don't need to fear these that we don't need to fear these cortisol spikes." And forgive me for cortisol spikes." And forgive me for cortisol spikes." And forgive me for going long here, but I think it is going long here, but I think it is going long here, but I think it is important that people hear this um important that people hear this um important that people hear this um again, which is there's also this idea again, which is there's also this idea again, which is there's also this idea that deliberate cold exposure increases that deliberate cold exposure increases that deliberate cold exposure increases cortisol, but when you look at the data, cortisol, but when you look at the data, cortisol, but when you look at the data, it definitely increases adrenaline. it definitely increases adrenaline. it definitely increases adrenaline. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And peripheral dopamine and probably, >> And peripheral dopamine and probably, >> And peripheral dopamine and probably, I'll go on record, it probably central I'll go on record, it probably central I'll go on record, it probably central dopamine, although we don't have as good dopamine, although we don't have as good dopamine, although we don't have as good evidence for that yet, evidence for that yet, evidence for that yet, >> but there evidence points to the fact >> but there evidence points to the fact >> but there evidence points to the fact that deliberate cold exposure lowers that deliberate cold exposure lowers that deliberate cold exposure lowers cortisol. So this then you know because cortisol. So this then you know because cortisol. So this then you know because and again I think Stacy appropriately and again I think Stacy appropriately and again I think Stacy appropriately said a lot of women who want to use cold said a lot of women who want to use cold said a lot of women who want to use cold shouldn't go as cold but the message got shouldn't go as cold but the message got shouldn't go as cold but the message got contorted and it became women shouldn't contorted and it became women shouldn't contorted and it became women shouldn't do deliberate cold exposure because of do deliberate cold exposure because of do deliberate cold exposure because of the cortisol increase. And so part of the cortisol increase. And so part of the cortisol increase. And so part of the reason I'm going long here is I'm the reason I'm going long here is I'm the reason I'm going long here is I'm trying to correct the narrative on her trying to correct the narrative on her trying to correct the narrative on her behalf. She said do what works for you, behalf. She said do what works for you, behalf. She said do what works for you, right? And that's what Lauren's saying right? And that's what Lauren's saying right? And that's what Lauren's saying and I'm guessing um that's what you'll and I'm guessing um that's what you'll and I'm guessing um that's what you'll say as well. Um, but I just need to get say as well. Um, but I just need to get say as well. Um, but I just need to get that out there because the message has that out there because the message has that out there because the message has gotten totally pretzel twisted up and gotten totally pretzel twisted up and gotten totally pretzel twisted up and cortisol is neither good nor bad. You cortisol is neither good nor bad. You cortisol is neither good nor bad. You want it high in the morning, you want it want it high in the morning, you want it want it high in the morning, you want it low at night. Um, in general, um, it low at night. Um, in general, um, it low at night. Um, in general, um, it sounds like you train fasted. sounds like you train fasted. sounds like you train fasted. >> I listen to how I feel. That's exactly >> I listen to how I feel. That's exactly >> I listen to how I feel. That's exactly what I do. So, what what your podcast what I do. So, what what your podcast what I do. So, what what your podcast guest and and the researchers are guest and and the researchers are guest and and the researchers are talking about is exactly. There are talking about is exactly. There are talking about is exactly. There are times when I wake up in the morning and times when I wake up in the morning and times when I wake up in the morning and I'm like, I need to eat something before I'm like, I need to eat something before I'm like, I need to eat something before I work out I work out I work out >> and I do. Um, but I oftentimes do train >> and I do. Um, but I oftentimes do train >> and I do. Um, but I oftentimes do train fasted one because I am practicing fasted one because I am practicing fasted one because I am practicing intermittent fasting again. But I do it intermittent fasting again. But I do it intermittent fasting again. But I do it I'm not like starving myself. And like I I'm not like starving myself. And like I I'm not like starving myself. And like I said, the reason there's multiple said, the reason there's multiple said, the reason there's multiple reasons I do it. One reason is because reasons I do it. One reason is because reasons I do it. One reason is because it really did help me lose the belly it really did help me lose the belly it really did help me lose the belly fat, which is the visceral fat, which is fat, which is the visceral fat, which is fat, which is the visceral fat, which is like the worst kind of fat you can have. like the worst kind of fat you can have. like the worst kind of fat you can have. And we can talk more about that. Um, but And we can talk more about that. Um, but And we can talk more about that. Um, but the second reason is I love the the second reason is I love the the second reason is I love the cognitive benefits I have in the morning cognitive benefits I have in the morning cognitive benefits I have in the morning with it. And it's the main reason I do with it. And it's the main reason I do with it. And it's the main reason I do it. And so there are many times what I it. And so there are many times what I it. And so there are many times what I do train fasted, but I am not out do train fasted, but I am not out do train fasted, but I am not out running 15 miles. Most of my my like I running 15 miles. Most of my my like I running 15 miles. Most of my my like I said my sessions are about an hour long. said my sessions are about an hour long. said my sessions are about an hour long. And am I taking a little bit of a And am I taking a little bit of a And am I taking a little bit of a performance hit with the high intensity? performance hit with the high intensity? performance hit with the high intensity? Probably. Probably yes. But it's not Probably. Probably yes. But it's not Probably. Probably yes. But it's not much to matter for me. And you do burn a much to matter for me. And you do burn a much to matter for me. And you do burn a little bit more fat if you train fasted. little bit more fat if you train fasted. little bit more fat if you train fasted. I mean that's known. Um you will if it I mean that's known. Um you will if it I mean that's known. Um you will if it is a longer session, you will take an is a longer session, you will take an is a longer session, you will take an performance enhancement hit. That is performance enhancement hit. That is performance enhancement hit. That is also known, right? So, I think it really also known, right? So, I think it really also known, right? So, I think it really does come down to like what is your does come down to like what is your does come down to like what is your goal? How do you feel? And and then you goal? How do you feel? And and then you goal? How do you feel? And and then you kind of go with that. And I I completely kind of go with that. And I I completely kind of go with that. And I I completely agree. Like there are times when, you agree. Like there are times when, you agree. Like there are times when, you know, I'm on my cycle and I feel fine know, I'm on my cycle and I feel fine know, I'm on my cycle and I feel fine and I'm working out just fine. And there and I'm working out just fine. And there and I'm working out just fine. And there are time other times that I'm like I are time other times that I'm like I are time other times that I'm like I don't feel good. Like I'm going to I'm don't feel good. Like I'm going to I'm don't feel good. Like I'm going to I'm going to take it easier. I still train. going to take it easier. I still train. going to take it easier. I still train. I just you listen to your body. And I I just you listen to your body. And I I just you listen to your body. And I that's a pretty easy that's a pretty easy that's a pretty easy >> I think rule of thumb. >> I think rule of thumb. >> I think rule of thumb. >> Sometimes people like to complicate >> Sometimes people like to complicate >> Sometimes people like to complicate things. You know, I don't there's lots things. You know, I don't there's lots things. You know, I don't there's lots of reasons why. I don't we don't need to of reasons why. I don't we don't need to of reasons why. I don't we don't need to get into that. get into that. get into that. >> I have theories. Yeah, I have theories, >> I have theories. Yeah, I have theories, >> I have theories. Yeah, I have theories, but they're not important right now. but they're not important right now. but they're not important right now. >> No, it's not important. Yeah. So, so >> No, it's not important. Yeah. So, so >> No, it's not important. Yeah. So, so yeah, I do I do train fasted and it is yeah, I do I do train fasted and it is yeah, I do I do train fasted and it is um for me it is helped me tremendously um for me it is helped me tremendously um for me it is helped me tremendously change my body composition. Like I said, change my body composition. Like I said, change my body composition. Like I said, I'm in a different part of my life than I'm in a different part of my life than I'm in a different part of my life than perhaps a 30-year-old woman is, right? perhaps a 30-year-old woman is, right? perhaps a 30-year-old woman is, right? So, when I was 30, I mean, like I I So, when I was 30, I mean, like I I So, when I was 30, I mean, like I I didn't have to train fasted. It was it didn't have to train fasted. It was it didn't have to train fasted. It was it was it was easy to keep, you know, the was it was easy to keep, you know, the was it was easy to keep, you know, the the belly fat, the visceral fat lower. the belly fat, the visceral fat lower. the belly fat, the visceral fat lower. Um, hormonal changes are do play a role Um, hormonal changes are do play a role Um, hormonal changes are do play a role in the way your body, so estrogen plays in the way your body, so estrogen plays in the way your body, so estrogen plays a role in telling your body how to store a role in telling your body how to store a role in telling your body how to store fat. So subcutaneous fat would be the fat. So subcutaneous fat would be the fat. So subcutaneous fat would be the kind of fat that you can just like kind of fat that you can just like kind of fat that you can just like pinch, right? The the fat that we see. pinch, right? The the fat that we see. pinch, right? The the fat that we see. The visceral fat, that's that deep fat The visceral fat, that's that deep fat The visceral fat, that's that deep fat that's lining your organs. It's often that's lining your organs. It's often that's lining your organs. It's often belly fat, you know, and it's lining the belly fat, you know, and it's lining the belly fat, you know, and it's lining the intestines, the liver, you know, it's intestines, the liver, you know, it's intestines, the liver, you know, it's it's it's it's an it's almost like an it's it's it's an it's almost like an it's it's it's an it's almost like an endocrine organ. I mean, because it is endocrine organ. I mean, because it is endocrine organ. I mean, because it is secretreting hormones. It's secretreting secretreting hormones. It's secretreting secretreting hormones. It's secretreting inflammatory factors. It's metabolically inflammatory factors. It's metabolically inflammatory factors. It's metabolically active. It's constantly breaking down active. It's constantly breaking down active. It's constantly breaking down triglycerides. It's associated with triglycerides. It's associated with triglycerides. It's associated with double the increased risk double the double the increased risk double the double the increased risk double the risk of early death. Um people that have risk of early death. Um people that have risk of early death. Um people that have high visceral fat have 44% higher chance high visceral fat have 44% higher chance high visceral fat have 44% higher chance of having cancer. Many different types of having cancer. Many different types of having cancer. Many different types of cancers. of cancers. of cancers. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> It's huge. It's huge. You know, and and >> It's huge. It's huge. You know, and and >> It's huge. It's huge. You know, and and of course insulin resistance is the of course insulin resistance is the of course insulin resistance is the number one problem with visceral fat, number one problem with visceral fat, number one problem with visceral fat, right? And I'd love to to talk about right? And I'd love to to talk about right? And I'd love to to talk about that, but um if you want I mean we can that, but um if you want I mean we can that, but um if you want I mean we can we can get into that. Yeah. It's it's so we can get into that. Yeah. It's it's so we can get into that. Yeah. It's it's so with the visceral fat and like I said, with the visceral fat and like I said, with the visceral fat and like I said, you know, visceral fat is something if you know, visceral fat is something if you know, visceral fat is something if you really directly want to measure it, you really directly want to measure it, you really directly want to measure it, you do a DEXA scan. But you know, for you do a DEXA scan. But you know, for you do a DEXA scan. But you know, for the average person that isn't going to the average person that isn't going to the average person that isn't going to go out and do a DEXA scan, waist go out and do a DEXA scan, waist go out and do a DEXA scan, waist circumference is a proxy. It's used in a circumference is a proxy. It's used in a circumference is a proxy. It's used in a lot of studies. So women that have a lot of studies. So women that have a lot of studies. So women that have a waist circumference of 35 in or above waist circumference of 35 in or above waist circumference of 35 in or above are considered to have a higher amount are considered to have a higher amount are considered to have a higher amount of visceral fat. Men that have a waist of visceral fat. Men that have a waist of visceral fat. Men that have a waist circumference of 40 in or above are circumference of 40 in or above are circumference of 40 in or above are considered to have higher amount of considered to have higher amount of considered to have higher amount of visceral fat. It's also that belly fat. visceral fat. It's also that belly fat. visceral fat. It's also that belly fat. like you can you can you just know right like you can you can you just know right like you can you can you just know right um interestingly like 70% of women over um interestingly like 70% of women over um interestingly like 70% of women over the age of 50 have high visceral fat 50% the age of 50 have high visceral fat 50% the age of 50 have high visceral fat 50% of men over the age of 50 do you know of men over the age of 50 do you know of men over the age of 50 do you know again coming down to women go through again coming down to women go through again coming down to women go through menopause estrogen plays an important menopause estrogen plays an important menopause estrogen plays an important role in telling the body you know to role in telling the body you know to role in telling the body you know to store the fat subcutaneously rather than store the fat subcutaneously rather than store the fat subcutaneously rather than viscerally deep around organs and so as viscerally deep around organs and so as viscerally deep around organs and so as women transition to pmenopause you know women transition to pmenopause you know women transition to pmenopause you know the years before menopause and menopause the years before menopause and menopause the years before menopause and menopause it their estrogen goes down and that it their estrogen goes down and that it their estrogen goes down and that does change the way the body stores fat. does change the way the body stores fat. does change the way the body stores fat. And any woman that's going through And any woman that's going through And any woman that's going through either of those stages knows it. And either of those stages knows it. And either of those stages knows it. And it's also why you see often women over it's also why you see often women over it's also why you see often women over the age of 50 with more belly fat, the age of 50 with more belly fat, the age of 50 with more belly fat, right? I mean, that's something that I right? I mean, that's something that I right? I mean, that's something that I think it's it's hard to deny, but um think it's it's hard to deny, but um think it's it's hard to deny, but um it's it's one of the reasons why I kind it's it's one of the reasons why I kind it's it's one of the reasons why I kind of went back to practicing intermittent of went back to practicing intermittent of went back to practicing intermittent fasting because there's a there's a fasting because there's a there's a fasting because there's a there's a couple of ways that you can really couple of ways that you can really couple of ways that you can really powerfully lose visceral fat. and one of powerfully lose visceral fat. and one of powerfully lose visceral fat. and one of them is doing aerobic exercise, them is doing aerobic exercise, them is doing aerobic exercise, high-intensity interval training also high-intensity interval training also high-intensity interval training also really powerfully can do it, but also really powerfully can do it, but also really powerfully can do it, but also being in a caloric deficit. And I think being in a caloric deficit. And I think being in a caloric deficit. And I think when you start to get the combination of when you start to get the combination of when you start to get the combination of both, that's what really worked for me. both, that's what really worked for me. both, that's what really worked for me. It's crazy how quickly you can gain it It's crazy how quickly you can gain it It's crazy how quickly you can gain it based on your diet as well. So, it is based on your diet as well. So, it is based on your diet as well. So, it is different from the subcutaneous fat in different from the subcutaneous fat in different from the subcutaneous fat in many ways. I mentioned it's secretreting many ways. I mentioned it's secretreting many ways. I mentioned it's secretreting these inflammatory molecules. It's, you these inflammatory molecules. It's, you these inflammatory molecules. It's, you know, hormones, but it's also constantly know, hormones, but it's also constantly know, hormones, but it's also constantly breaking down triglycerides into free breaking down triglycerides into free breaking down triglycerides into free fatty acids. And the location of it is fatty acids. And the location of it is fatty acids. And the location of it is very dangerous because it's right very dangerous because it's right very dangerous because it's right surrounding the liver, right? It's this surrounding the liver, right? It's this surrounding the liver, right? It's this deep organ fat. And that's very close to deep organ fat. And that's very close to deep organ fat. And that's very close to the portal vein. And so, you're the portal vein. And so, you're the portal vein. And so, you're constantly getting this sort of constantly getting this sort of constantly getting this sort of mainlinining free fatty acids to the mainlinining free fatty acids to the mainlinining free fatty acids to the liver. And visceral fat is very liver. And visceral fat is very liver. And visceral fat is very different from subcutaneous fat because different from subcutaneous fat because different from subcutaneous fat because it doesn't respond to insulin like it doesn't respond to insulin like it doesn't respond to insulin like subcutaneous fat does. In other words, subcutaneous fat does. In other words, subcutaneous fat does. In other words, when you have a meal, you eat a when you have a meal, you eat a when you have a meal, you eat a carbohydrate meal and you basically your carbohydrate meal and you basically your carbohydrate meal and you basically your body increases insulin to help take it body increases insulin to help take it body increases insulin to help take it up glucose into your liver uh muscle up glucose into your liver uh muscle up glucose into your liver uh muscle atapost tissue. Lipolysis shuts down, atapost tissue. Lipolysis shuts down, atapost tissue. Lipolysis shuts down, right? It's like, okay, no longer am I right? It's like, okay, no longer am I right? It's like, okay, no longer am I going to break down these fats. It's going to break down these fats. It's going to break down these fats. It's time to use this energy, right? Visceral time to use this energy, right? Visceral time to use this energy, right? Visceral fat doesn't respond to insulin. So, it fat doesn't respond to insulin. So, it fat doesn't respond to insulin. So, it just keeps going, right? And these free just keeps going, right? And these free just keeps going, right? And these free fatty acids because they're going right fatty acids because they're going right fatty acids because they're going right to the liver, uh it's it's essentially to the liver, uh it's it's essentially to the liver, uh it's it's essentially antagonizing the insulin receptors. So, antagonizing the insulin receptors. So, antagonizing the insulin receptors. So, it causes insulin receptors to become it causes insulin receptors to become it causes insulin receptors to become more resistant to insulin. And this is more resistant to insulin. And this is more resistant to insulin. And this is part of why people with high visceral part of why people with high visceral part of why people with high visceral fat, by the way, you can gain visceral fat, by the way, you can gain visceral fat, by the way, you can gain visceral fat without gaining a pound. And we can fat without gaining a pound. And we can fat without gaining a pound. And we can talk about those studies like people talk about those studies like people talk about those studies like people people are skinny and can have high people are skinny and can have high people are skinny and can have high amounts of visceral fat. You've you've amounts of visceral fat. You've you've amounts of visceral fat. You've you've heard of like lean metabolically heard of like lean metabolically heard of like lean metabolically unhealthy but lean individuals. Those unhealthy but lean individuals. Those unhealthy but lean individuals. Those people exist. And so you can have a high people exist. And so you can have a high people exist. And so you can have a high amount of visceral fat but not really amount of visceral fat but not really amount of visceral fat but not really look like you do. So um when you know look like you do. So um when you know look like you do. So um when you know obviously the insulin resistance is a obviously the insulin resistance is a obviously the insulin resistance is a problem for many reasons but it also problem for many reasons but it also problem for many reasons but it also plays a role in those energy crashes plays a role in those energy crashes plays a role in those energy crashes that you experience right and that's that you experience right and that's that you experience right and that's kind of like some of the first signs of kind of like some of the first signs of kind of like some of the first signs of insulin resistance actually have to do insulin resistance actually have to do insulin resistance actually have to do with what you're feeling. We talked with what you're feeling. We talked with what you're feeling. We talked about lethargy, right? So, you know, the about lethargy, right? So, you know, the about lethargy, right? So, you know, the inflammation that's being generated from inflammation that's being generated from inflammation that's being generated from these this visceral fat constantly these this visceral fat constantly these this visceral fat constantly making these, you know, pro-inflammatory making these, you know, pro-inflammatory making these, you know, pro-inflammatory compounds are an it's an energy sink, compounds are an it's an energy sink, compounds are an it's an energy sink, right? So, you do constantly feel tired, right? So, you do constantly feel tired, right? So, you do constantly feel tired, but also because your cells are becoming but also because your cells are becoming but also because your cells are becoming insulin resistant, insulin resistant, insulin resistant, when you have a high glucose meal and when you have a high glucose meal and when you have a high glucose meal and you're not responding, the body kind of you're not responding, the body kind of you're not responding, the body kind of overcompensates and produces more overcompensates and produces more overcompensates and produces more insulin. So it's like I we got to get insulin. So it's like I we got to get insulin. So it's like I we got to get this blood glucose out of our system, this blood glucose out of our system, this blood glucose out of our system, right? It can cause a lot of damage if right? It can cause a lot of damage if right? It can cause a lot of damage if it sits around there. And so you make it sits around there. And so you make it sits around there. And so you make more insulin and then what happens is more insulin and then what happens is more insulin and then what happens is you your blood glucose goes way low you your blood glucose goes way low you your blood glucose goes way low because it was like this because it was like this because it was like this overcompensation, right? And then you overcompensation, right? And then you overcompensation, right? And then you feel a crash. You feel like this crash feel a crash. You feel like this crash feel a crash. You feel like this crash and that signals to the you know and that signals to the you know and that signals to the you know hypothalamus part of the brain. Uh I hypothalamus part of the brain. Uh I hypothalamus part of the brain. Uh I need energy, right? So then you you sort need energy, right? So then you you sort need energy, right? So then you you sort of crave you get those cravings for of crave you get those cravings for of crave you get those cravings for those calorically energetic dense foods. those calorically energetic dense foods. those calorically energetic dense foods. What I'm talking about is like the What I'm talking about is like the What I'm talking about is like the experience of like, experience of like, experience of like, >> you know, insulin resistance. And what's >> you know, insulin resistance. And what's >> you know, insulin resistance. And what's interesting is that you can cause interesting is that you can cause interesting is that you can cause someone to gain visceral fat and and someone to gain visceral fat and and someone to gain visceral fat and and their brain can become insulin their brain can become insulin their brain can become insulin resistant. So we think a lot about resistant. So we think a lot about resistant. So we think a lot about insulin resistance in the muscle, liver, insulin resistance in the muscle, liver, insulin resistance in the muscle, liver, your brain also can become insulin your brain also can become insulin your brain also can become insulin resistance quite quickly actually. So um resistance quite quickly actually. So um resistance quite quickly actually. So um insulin is very important in the brain insulin is very important in the brain insulin is very important in the brain for a lot of reasons as you know but you for a lot of reasons as you know but you for a lot of reasons as you know but you know a couple of the things relative to know a couple of the things relative to know a couple of the things relative to what we're or relevant to what we're what we're or relevant to what we're what we're or relevant to what we're talking about would be one is it does talking about would be one is it does talking about would be one is it does act on the hypothalamus and help you act on the hypothalamus and help you act on the hypothalamus and help you know tell it to basically um stop eating know tell it to basically um stop eating know tell it to basically um stop eating be satiated like I took a meal in okay be satiated like I took a meal in okay be satiated like I took a meal in okay like I'm going to be satiated but it like I'm going to be satiated but it like I'm going to be satiated but it also plays a role in energy storage and also plays a role in energy storage and also plays a role in energy storage and telling the the body how to store the telling the the body how to store the telling the the body how to store the energy and so when your brain becomes energy and so when your brain becomes energy and so when your brain becomes insulin resistant it's not doing that insulin resistant it's not doing that insulin resistant it's not doing that and so you're not being satiated so you and so you're not being satiated so you and so you're not being satiated so you eat more and you're storing the fat more eat more and you're storing the fat more eat more and you're storing the fat more viscerally. And there was a study that viscerally. And there was a study that viscerally. And there was a study that was published actually quite recently. I was published actually quite recently. I was published actually quite recently. I covered this in a in a recent covered this in a in a recent covered this in a in a recent newsletter. It was a really interesting newsletter. It was a really interesting newsletter. It was a really interesting study because it was healthy young men study because it was healthy young men study because it was healthy young men and researchers put them on a and researchers put them on a and researchers put them on a little bit of a calorically dense. So it little bit of a calorically dense. So it little bit of a calorically dense. So it was like they were eating 1,200 to 1500 was like they were eating 1,200 to 1500 was like they were eating 1,200 to 1500 more calories a day and it was high more calories a day and it was high more calories a day and it was high saturated fat, high sugar. So it was the saturated fat, high sugar. So it was the saturated fat, high sugar. So it was the processed foods, ultra processed foods processed foods, ultra processed foods processed foods, ultra processed foods like you know ultimate, right? like you know ultimate, right? like you know ultimate, right? >> That's a lot of extra calories. >> That's a lot of extra calories. >> That's a lot of extra calories. >> A lot of extra calories or five days it >> A lot of extra calories or five days it >> A lot of extra calories or five days it is. But what happened was they're they is. But what happened was they're they is. But what happened was they're they did cause their brain to become insulin did cause their brain to become insulin did cause their brain to become insulin resistant and they didn't gain weight resistant and they didn't gain weight resistant and they didn't gain weight but they gained visceral fat and they but they gained visceral fat and they but they gained visceral fat and they started gaining fat around their liver. started gaining fat around their liver. started gaining fat around their liver. And that's something that happens as And that's something that happens as And that's something that happens as well because visceral fat is surrounding well because visceral fat is surrounding well because visceral fat is surrounding liver. You're getting a lot of free liver. You're getting a lot of free liver. You're getting a lot of free fatty acids and they're going right to fatty acids and they're going right to fatty acids and they're going right to the liver. So the liver has to store it, the liver. So the liver has to store it, the liver. So the liver has to store it, right? So you get this non-alcoholic, right? So you get this non-alcoholic, right? So you get this non-alcoholic, you know, fatty fatty liver, but and you know, fatty fatty liver, but and you know, fatty fatty liver, but and that happened after 5 days. I mean, that happened after 5 days. I mean, that happened after 5 days. I mean, without gaining without gaining without gaining >> in otherwise young healthy. >> in otherwise young healthy. >> in otherwise young healthy. >> Yeah. But, you know, they were eating a >> Yeah. But, you know, they were eating a >> Yeah. But, you know, they were eating a lot of calories, extra calories. lot of calories, extra calories. lot of calories, extra calories. >> Yeah. That's like an,200. That's like a >> Yeah. That's like an,200. That's like a >> Yeah. That's like an,200. That's like a half a pizza half a pizza half a pizza extra above your maintenance calories. extra above your maintenance calories. extra above your maintenance calories. >> That's probably what they were doing. >> That's probably what they were doing. >> That's probably what they were doing. They were eating lots of Well, they were They were eating lots of Well, they were They were eating lots of Well, they were eating like saturated fat and refined eating like saturated fat and refined eating like saturated fat and refined sugar. So, sugar. So, sugar. So, >> burritos and French fries. >> burritos and French fries. >> burritos and French fries. >> Yeah. I mean, obviously, if you're going >> Yeah. I mean, obviously, if you're going >> Yeah. I mean, obviously, if you're going to do the study, you want to kind of do to do the study, you want to kind of do to do the study, you want to kind of do it to a degree where you're going to see it to a degree where you're going to see it to a degree where you're going to see some change, right? So, so maybe like some change, right? So, so maybe like some change, right? So, so maybe like maybe it's not going to happen in 5 days maybe it's not going to happen in 5 days maybe it's not going to happen in 5 days if you're if you're only eating 500 more if you're if you're only eating 500 more if you're if you're only eating 500 more calories a day, but over time you will calories a day, but over time you will calories a day, but over time you will be gaining visceral fat, right? So, it's be gaining visceral fat, right? So, it's be gaining visceral fat, right? So, it's not going to be the same degree. It's not going to be the same degree. It's not going to be the same degree. It's something to be concerned about. It's something to be concerned about. It's something to be concerned about. It's something to think about and also something to think about and also something to think about and also because you can gain it and not really because you can gain it and not really because you can gain it and not really even know it like you know without even know it like you know without even know it like you know without gaining a pound. And there are other gaining a pound. And there are other gaining a pound. And there are other things that cause it not just you know things that cause it not just you know things that cause it not just you know eating too many calories or diet eating too many calories or diet eating too many calories or diet composition. I mean you mentioned composition. I mean you mentioned composition. I mean you mentioned cortisol. I mean, chronic elevated cortisol. I mean, chronic elevated cortisol. I mean, chronic elevated cortisol makes you store the fat around cortisol makes you store the fat around cortisol makes you store the fat around around, you know, visceral fat. Sleep around, you know, visceral fat. Sleep around, you know, visceral fat. Sleep loss. I mean, there's also studies loss. I mean, there's also studies loss. I mean, there's also studies showing that you take healthy men, sleep showing that you take healthy men, sleep showing that you take healthy men, sleep deprive them for a couple of weeks, I deprive them for a couple of weeks, I deprive them for a couple of weeks, I think four hours, they're getting four think four hours, they're getting four think four hours, they're getting four hours of sleep a night, they can start hours of sleep a night, they can start hours of sleep a night, they can start gaining visceral fat, I mean, pretty gaining visceral fat, I mean, pretty gaining visceral fat, I mean, pretty rapidly with only like a pound, gaining rapidly with only like a pound, gaining rapidly with only like a pound, gaining a pound of weight. So, again, it's like a pound of weight. So, again, it's like a pound of weight. So, again, it's like not necessarily something that you're not necessarily something that you're not necessarily something that you're going to see on the scale, but it's going to see on the scale, but it's going to see on the scale, but it's happening, right? And it's affecting happening, right? And it's affecting happening, right? And it's affecting your short-term mood. I mean, how you your short-term mood. I mean, how you your short-term mood. I mean, how you feel, your energy, it's affecting, you feel, your energy, it's affecting, you feel, your energy, it's affecting, you know, the way you're eating. It's a know, the way you're eating. It's a know, the way you're eating. It's a vicious cycle because you start to eat vicious cycle because you start to eat vicious cycle because you start to eat more calories, right? And then it just more calories, right? And then it just more calories, right? And then it just becomes this vicious cycle of that you becomes this vicious cycle of that you becomes this vicious cycle of that you start to gain more visceral fat. start to gain more visceral fat. start to gain more visceral fat. >> I'd like to take a quick break and >> I'd like to take a quick break and >> I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, acknowledge one of our sponsors, acknowledge one of our sponsors, Element. Element is an electrolyte drink Element. Element is an electrolyte drink Element. Element is an electrolyte drink that has everything you need and nothing that has everything you need and nothing that has everything you need and nothing you don't. That means the electrolytes, you don't. That means the electrolytes, you don't. That means the electrolytes, sodium, magnesium, and potassium, all in sodium, magnesium, and potassium, all in sodium, magnesium, and potassium, all in the correct ratios, but no sugar. 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My days tend to start really fast, meaning I have to jump really fast, meaning I have to jump really fast, meaning I have to jump right into work or right into exercise. right into work or right into exercise. right into work or right into exercise. So, to make sure that I'm hydrated and I So, to make sure that I'm hydrated and I So, to make sure that I'm hydrated and I have sufficient electrolytes, when I have sufficient electrolytes, when I have sufficient electrolytes, when I first wake up in the morning, I drink 16 first wake up in the morning, I drink 16 first wake up in the morning, I drink 16 to 32 ounces of water with an element to 32 ounces of water with an element to 32 ounces of water with an element packet dissolved in it. I also drink packet dissolved in it. I also drink packet dissolved in it. I also drink Element dissolved in water during any Element dissolved in water during any Element dissolved in water during any kind of physical exercise that I'm kind of physical exercise that I'm kind of physical exercise that I'm doing, especially on hot days when I'm doing, especially on hot days when I'm doing, especially on hot days when I'm sweating a lot and losing water and sweating a lot and losing water and sweating a lot and losing water and electrolytes. Element has a bunch of electrolytes. Element has a bunch of electrolytes. Element has a bunch of great tasting flavors. In fact, I love great tasting flavors. In fact, I love great tasting flavors. In fact, I love them all. I love the watermelon, the them all. I love the watermelon, the them all. I love the watermelon, the raspberry, the citrus, and I really love raspberry, the citrus, and I really love raspberry, the citrus, and I really love the lemonade flavor. So, if you'd like the lemonade flavor. So, if you'd like the lemonade flavor. So, if you'd like to try Element, you can go to to try Element, you can go to to try Element, you can go to drinkelement.com/huberman drinkelement.com/huberman drinkelement.com/huberman to claim a free Element sample pack with to claim a free Element sample pack with to claim a free Element sample pack with any purchase. Again, that's any purchase. Again, that's any purchase. Again, that's drinkelement.com/huberman drinkelement.com/huberman drinkelement.com/huberman to claim a free sample pack. Such an to claim a free sample pack. Such an to claim a free sample pack. Such an important point that you can either not important point that you can either not important point that you can either not be gaining much or not gaining any uh be gaining much or not gaining any uh be gaining much or not gaining any uh total body weight, but gaining visceral total body weight, but gaining visceral total body weight, but gaining visceral fat. I think that's uh first time I've fat. I think that's uh first time I've fat. I think that's uh first time I've heard that and it's a vital message for heard that and it's a vital message for heard that and it's a vital message for people to hear because this visceral fat people to hear because this visceral fat people to hear because this visceral fat sounds like one of the major health sounds like one of the major health sounds like one of the major health hazards we need to worry about. You hazards we need to worry about. You hazards we need to worry about. You mentioned elevated chronically elevated mentioned elevated chronically elevated mentioned elevated chronically elevated cortisol. Sleep deprivation will cortisol. Sleep deprivation will cortisol. Sleep deprivation will increase visceral fat. Once again, I increase visceral fat. Once again, I increase visceral fat. Once again, I know I'm beating a drum here um almost know I'm beating a drum here um almost know I'm beating a drum here um almost to death, but having high cortisol early to death, but having high cortisol early to death, but having high cortisol early in the day and low cortisol in the in the day and low cortisol in the in the day and low cortisol in the evening is the definition of not evening is the definition of not evening is the definition of not chronically high cortisol. The chronically high cortisol. The chronically high cortisol. The definition of chronically high cortisol definition of chronically high cortisol definition of chronically high cortisol is somewhat elevated or elevated is somewhat elevated or elevated is somewhat elevated or elevated cortisol in the morning, but especially cortisol in the morning, but especially cortisol in the morning, but especially in the hours before sleep. And I I in the hours before sleep. And I I in the hours before sleep. And I I actually have a theory that is not a actually have a theory that is not a actually have a theory that is not a stretch that one of the main reasons why stretch that one of the main reasons why stretch that one of the main reasons why it's so detrimental to our mental and it's so detrimental to our mental and it's so detrimental to our mental and physical health in the short and long physical health in the short and long physical health in the short and long term is because of the ways it disrupts term is because of the ways it disrupts term is because of the ways it disrupts sleep. sleep. sleep. >> And so and we can't tease those apart. >> And so and we can't tease those apart. >> And so and we can't tease those apart. You can't do a study where you spike You can't do a study where you spike You can't do a study where you spike cortisol late in the day. Even if you cortisol late in the day. Even if you cortisol late in the day. Even if you can fall asleep just fine after the end can fall asleep just fine after the end can fall asleep just fine after the end of a really stressful day, the sleep is of a really stressful day, the sleep is of a really stressful day, the sleep is different. And people say, "Well, life different. And people say, "Well, life different. And people say, "Well, life has stress." And I totally agree. I has stress." And I totally agree. I has stress." And I totally agree. I mean, Lord knows I've experienced life mean, Lord knows I've experienced life mean, Lord knows I've experienced life has stress, but getting that last hour has stress, but getting that last hour has stress, but getting that last hour of the day doing things to push down on of the day doing things to push down on of the day doing things to push down on cortisol, push down on stress, lower cortisol, push down on stress, lower cortisol, push down on stress, lower heart rate, not eating, and that heart rate, not eating, and that heart rate, not eating, and that certainly that last hour before sleep, certainly that last hour before sleep, certainly that last hour before sleep, ideally three. Um, I feel like that ideally three. Um, I feel like that ideally three. Um, I feel like that small change can make a an outsized small change can make a an outsized small change can make a an outsized positive difference. positive difference. positive difference. >> That's interesting. like the the the >> That's interesting. like the the the >> That's interesting. like the the the correlation between the high cortisol correlation between the high cortisol correlation between the high cortisol affecting your sleep and maybe that's affecting your sleep and maybe that's affecting your sleep and maybe that's also like they're they're related and so also like they're they're related and so also like they're they're related and so the sleep loss really does make you we the sleep loss really does make you we the sleep loss really does make you we know we know from you know you probably know we know from you know you probably know we know from you know you probably know who the researchers are that have know who the researchers are that have know who the researchers are that have done those studies on sleep loss and it done those studies on sleep loss and it done those studies on sleep loss and it affecting appetite right I mean affecting appetite right I mean affecting appetite right I mean >> oh everything gets disregulated I don't >> oh everything gets disregulated I don't >> oh everything gets disregulated I don't want to take us off course but I think want to take us off course but I think want to take us off course but I think you might find it interesting that you might find it interesting that you might find it interesting that there's a beautiful study where they there's a beautiful study where they there's a beautiful study where they look measured metabolism during sleep look measured metabolism during sleep look measured metabolism during sleep they basically had people breathe into a they basically had people breathe into a they basically had people breathe into a tube um during sleep they had a mask on. tube um during sleep they had a mask on. tube um during sleep they had a mask on. And it turns out that the brain cycles And it turns out that the brain cycles And it turns out that the brain cycles through all the different forms of through all the different forms of through all the different forms of metabolism during sleep. There's a phase metabolism during sleep. There's a phase metabolism during sleep. There's a phase of sleep where you're essentially of sleep where you're essentially of sleep where you're essentially running on sugar. There's a you then running on sugar. There's a you then running on sugar. There's a you then there's like a almost looks like there's like a almost looks like there's like a almost looks like somebody's ketogenic at one basically somebody's ketogenic at one basically somebody's ketogenic at one basically that the middle of the night when we're that the middle of the night when we're that the middle of the night when we're well it should be at night when you're well it should be at night when you're well it should be at night when you're sleeping is a is kind of a test run of sleeping is a is kind of a test run of sleeping is a is kind of a test run of all the systems but they get all the systems but they get all the systems but they get recalibrated and it's so important. I recalibrated and it's so important. I recalibrated and it's so important. I actually think you know most of the actually think you know most of the actually think you know most of the negative effects of alcohol that people negative effects of alcohol that people negative effects of alcohol that people talk about yes it's a poison. It's a talk about yes it's a poison. It's a talk about yes it's a poison. It's a class one carcinogen um as classified by class one carcinogen um as classified by class one carcinogen um as classified by the World Health Organization on a I the World Health Organization on a I the World Health Organization on a I think most of the negative effects of think most of the negative effects of think most of the negative effects of drinking are because of the negative drinking are because of the negative drinking are because of the negative effects of alcohol on sleep. effects of alcohol on sleep. effects of alcohol on sleep. >> I'm not telling people drink in the >> I'm not telling people drink in the >> I'm not telling people drink in the morning, but you know it and so I I morning, but you know it and so I I morning, but you know it and so I I think that if you get your sleep right, think that if you get your sleep right, think that if you get your sleep right, you're not 90% of the way there, but you're not 90% of the way there, but you're not 90% of the way there, but you're halfway there. you're halfway there. you're halfway there. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> I really do believe that. And then >> I really do believe that. And then >> I really do believe that. And then getting your sleep right makes you do a getting your sleep right makes you do a getting your sleep right makes you do a bunch of other things, bunch of other things, bunch of other things, >> right? You're you're more motivated to >> right? You're you're more motivated to >> right? You're you're more motivated to exercise for one. exercise for one. exercise for one. >> More motivated to exercise. your food >> More motivated to exercise. your food >> More motivated to exercise. your food choices. I mean, and on and on. The the choices. I mean, and on and on. The the choices. I mean, and on and on. The the problem with talking about sleep is so problem with talking about sleep is so problem with talking about sleep is so important is people will get sleep important is people will get sleep important is people will get sleep anxiety. So, we tap dance around this anxiety. So, we tap dance around this anxiety. So, we tap dance around this like, oh, we don't want people stress. like, oh, we don't want people stress. like, oh, we don't want people stress. Learn how to fall asleep. Learn how to Learn how to fall asleep. Learn how to Learn how to fall asleep. Learn how to fall back asleep. These no one gets it fall back asleep. These no one gets it fall back asleep. These no one gets it perfect. Yes, you'll survive like perfect. Yes, you'll survive like perfect. Yes, you'll survive like without one poor night's sleep or an all without one poor night's sleep or an all without one poor night's sleep or an all nighter. You're not going to die. Like, nighter. You're not going to die. Like, nighter. You're not going to die. Like, you know, just get good at it on you know, just get good at it on you know, just get good at it on average, right? That's what I'd say. average, right? That's what I'd say. average, right? That's what I'd say. Could you tell us what the structure of Could you tell us what the structure of Could you tell us what the structure of the intermittent fasting is for you? the intermittent fasting is for you? the intermittent fasting is for you? Does that mean skipping breakfast, Does that mean skipping breakfast, Does that mean skipping breakfast, skipping lunch, skipping dinner? because skipping lunch, skipping dinner? because skipping lunch, skipping dinner? because I know a number of people are sort of I know a number of people are sort of I know a number of people are sort of getting drawn back to intermittent getting drawn back to intermittent getting drawn back to intermittent fasting after a couple years of it fasting after a couple years of it fasting after a couple years of it getting beat up on is like not the best getting beat up on is like not the best getting beat up on is like not the best way to lose fat or it is a way to lose fat or it is a way to lose fat or it is a >> I think it's a terrific way to do the >> I think it's a terrific way to do the >> I think it's a terrific way to do the sorts of things that you're describing sorts of things that you're describing sorts of things that you're describing and I'm learning today more about the and I'm learning today more about the and I'm learning today more about the positive things it can do um for insulin positive things it can do um for insulin positive things it can do um for insulin sensitivity and so forth. If you're on a sensitivity and so forth. If you're on a sensitivity and so forth. If you're on a bout of intermittent fasting, are you bout of intermittent fasting, are you bout of intermittent fasting, are you doing it by the clock? Are you doing it doing it by the clock? Are you doing it doing it by the clock? Are you doing it by feel? What does it look like? For me, by feel? What does it look like? For me, by feel? What does it look like? For me, it it it really does depend on the day. it it it really does depend on the day. it it it really does depend on the day. And I really do try to stop eating three And I really do try to stop eating three And I really do try to stop eating three hours before I go to bed. It doesn't hours before I go to bed. It doesn't hours before I go to bed. It doesn't always happen, you know, with family always happen, you know, with family always happen, you know, with family obligations, social obligations, but obligations, social obligations, but obligations, social obligations, but it's the habit that's important, right? it's the habit that's important, right? it's the habit that's important, right? So, intermittent fasting, you know, it's So, intermittent fasting, you know, it's So, intermittent fasting, you know, it's more than just one intervention. As I more than just one intervention. As I more than just one intervention. As I mentioned, it's a behavioral tool that mentioned, it's a behavioral tool that mentioned, it's a behavioral tool that you can use to limit your calorie intake you can use to limit your calorie intake you can use to limit your calorie intake with actually without actually having to with actually without actually having to with actually without actually having to count all the calories, which some count all the calories, which some count all the calories, which some people like to do, some people don't, people like to do, some people don't, people like to do, some people don't, right? So, it's a tool, but also it's right? So, it's a tool, but also it's right? So, it's a tool, but also it's really important for a metabolic switch. really important for a metabolic switch. really important for a metabolic switch. As you mentioned, insulin sensitivity in As you mentioned, insulin sensitivity in As you mentioned, insulin sensitivity in the metabolic switch is something that the metabolic switch is something that the metabolic switch is something that Dr. Mark Matson coined and I love it Dr. Mark Matson coined and I love it Dr. Mark Matson coined and I love it because I feel like, you know, thinking because I feel like, you know, thinking because I feel like, you know, thinking about intermittent fasting in that way about intermittent fasting in that way about intermittent fasting in that way makes it a little more clear as to the makes it a little more clear as to the makes it a little more clear as to the benefits of it. It depends on the meal benefits of it. It depends on the meal benefits of it. It depends on the meal you have and how much exercise you do, you have and how much exercise you do, you have and how much exercise you do, right? But on average, let's say 11 12 right? But on average, let's say 11 12 right? But on average, let's say 11 12 hours to deplete your liver glycogen hours to deplete your liver glycogen hours to deplete your liver glycogen levels. And once that happens, you do levels. And once that happens, you do levels. And once that happens, you do start to burn fat and use fatty acids as start to burn fat and use fatty acids as start to burn fat and use fatty acids as fuel and make ketone bodies. So you go fuel and make ketone bodies. So you go fuel and make ketone bodies. So you go into ketogenesis, right? And that's a into ketogenesis, right? And that's a into ketogenesis, right? And that's a metabolic switch. Metabolic flexibility. metabolic switch. Metabolic flexibility. metabolic switch. Metabolic flexibility. You're not you're going from using You're not you're going from using You're not you're going from using carbohydrates as fuel to using fatty carbohydrates as fuel to using fatty carbohydrates as fuel to using fatty acids and making ketone bodies as fuel. acids and making ketone bodies as fuel. acids and making ketone bodies as fuel. And that's something that, you know, And that's something that, you know, And that's something that, you know, throughout human evolution was throughout human evolution was throughout human evolution was ingrained, right? Like we didn't always ingrained, right? Like we didn't always ingrained, right? Like we didn't always have access to Uber Eats and Instacart have access to Uber Eats and Instacart have access to Uber Eats and Instacart and you just at a swipe you get food, and you just at a swipe you get food, and you just at a swipe you get food, right? I mean, there were many times right? I mean, there were many times right? I mean, there were many times when, you know, people had to not eat when, you know, people had to not eat when, you know, people had to not eat because they couldn't forge their foods, because they couldn't forge their foods, because they couldn't forge their foods, maybe the time of year, or they couldn't maybe the time of year, or they couldn't maybe the time of year, or they couldn't hunt their food because they didn't get hunt their food because they didn't get hunt their food because they didn't get a win or whatever. I don't know. So, a win or whatever. I don't know. So, a win or whatever. I don't know. So, this metabolic flexibility is something this metabolic flexibility is something this metabolic flexibility is something that's really ingrained in in our in our that's really ingrained in in our in our that's really ingrained in in our in our our DNA in a sense, right? I mean, one our DNA in a sense, right? I mean, one our DNA in a sense, right? I mean, one of the reasons I like to do that is the of the reasons I like to do that is the of the reasons I like to do that is the ketone production. And why is that? You ketone production. And why is that? You ketone production. And why is that? You know, ketones are really clean. They're know, ketones are really clean. They're know, ketones are really clean. They're clean, a clean way to burn energy. So clean, a clean way to burn energy. So clean, a clean way to burn energy. So they generate less oxidative stress, they generate less oxidative stress, they generate less oxidative stress, less oxidative products, but they also less oxidative products, but they also less oxidative products, but they also are energetically favorable in that it are energetically favorable in that it are energetically favorable in that it takes less energy to use them to make takes less energy to use them to make takes less energy to use them to make energy than glucose does. So it takes energy than glucose does. So it takes energy than glucose does. So it takes more energy to use glucose as energy more energy to use glucose as energy more energy to use glucose as energy than it does ketones. But they're also a than it does ketones. But they're also a than it does ketones. But they're also a signaling molecule. So it's a way for signaling molecule. So it's a way for signaling molecule. So it's a way for the body, you know, to signal to other the body, you know, to signal to other the body, you know, to signal to other parts of the body like, hey, this is a parts of the body like, hey, this is a parts of the body like, hey, this is a stressful time. There's no food. I'm, stressful time. There's no food. I'm, stressful time. There's no food. I'm, you know, burn. I'm I'm in ketosis. um you know, burn. I'm I'm in ketosis. um you know, burn. I'm I'm in ketosis. um let's let's make you stronger, right? let's let's make you stronger, right? let's let's make you stronger, right? Because that's kind of what evolution Because that's kind of what evolution Because that's kind of what evolution wants. Like if you're not able to find wants. Like if you're not able to find wants. Like if you're not able to find or eat food, you have to be stronger to or eat food, you have to be stronger to or eat food, you have to be stronger to be able to do it, right? And so that's be able to do it, right? And so that's be able to do it, right? And so that's that's kind of at the I say core of of that's kind of at the I say core of of that's kind of at the I say core of of this metabolic switch and why it's this metabolic switch and why it's this metabolic switch and why it's important. And I think that I really important. And I think that I really important. And I think that I really like Mark Matson being the pioneer in like Mark Matson being the pioneer in like Mark Matson being the pioneer in this and as a neuroscientist really this and as a neuroscientist really this and as a neuroscientist really looking at the benefits in the brain as looking at the benefits in the brain as looking at the benefits in the brain as well. you know these ketones like beta well. you know these ketones like beta well. you know these ketones like beta hydroxybutyrate are activating you know hydroxybutyrate are activating you know hydroxybutyrate are activating you know growth factors like brain derived growth factors like brain derived growth factors like brain derived neurotrphic factor in the brain as you neurotrphic factor in the brain as you neurotrphic factor in the brain as you know it's very important for you know know it's very important for you know know it's very important for you know learning memory you know syn synapse learning memory you know syn synapse learning memory you know syn synapse formation and stuff that's hugely formation and stuff that's hugely formation and stuff that's hugely important for um neuroplasticity so it's important for um neuroplasticity so it's important for um neuroplasticity so it's activating beneficial compounds like activating beneficial compounds like activating beneficial compounds like that and again um it it it's not going that and again um it it it's not going that and again um it it it's not going to happen if you're never going into to happen if you're never going into to happen if you're never going into this metabolic switch and there's other this metabolic switch and there's other this metabolic switch and there's other ways to get there right so you can limit ways to get there right so you can limit ways to get there right so you can limit your food go into this ketosis, right? your food go into this ketosis, right? your food go into this ketosis, right? Where you're basically depleting your Where you're basically depleting your Where you're basically depleting your liver glycogen or you can exercise a liver glycogen or you can exercise a liver glycogen or you can exercise a lot, right? So, your energy expenditure lot, right? So, your energy expenditure lot, right? So, your energy expenditure goes up. So, there's there's different goes up. So, there's there's different goes up. So, there's there's different ways to get to this metabolic switch. It ways to get to this metabolic switch. It ways to get to this metabolic switch. It doesn't necessarily have to be doesn't necessarily have to be doesn't necessarily have to be intermittent fasting. intermittent fasting. intermittent fasting. >> God, >> God, >> God, >> and I'm telling you this because you're >> and I'm telling you this because you're >> and I'm telling you this because you're you I want to tell you why I'm I'm sort you I want to tell you why I'm I'm sort you I want to tell you why I'm I'm sort of back back on the intermittent of back back on the intermittent of back back on the intermittent fasting. And by the way, it's not for fasting. And by the way, it's not for fasting. And by the way, it's not for everyone. Like I said, I mean, I think everyone. Like I said, I mean, I think everyone. Like I said, I mean, I think that you can find other ways to get this that you can find other ways to get this that you can find other ways to get this metabolic switch. And um for me, metabolic switch. And um for me, metabolic switch. And um for me, intermittent fasting works. And so what intermittent fasting works. And so what intermittent fasting works. And so what I do typically is I will do most of the I do typically is I will do most of the I do typically is I will do most of the time my fast my workouts will be fasted. time my fast my workouts will be fasted. time my fast my workouts will be fasted. Not all the time. It it does depend on Not all the time. It it does depend on Not all the time. It it does depend on how I feel. how I feel. how I feel. >> What time do you typically wake up? >> What time do you typically wake up? >> What time do you typically wake up? >> So I wake up like between 6:00 and 7:00. >> So I wake up like between 6:00 and 7:00. >> So I wake up like between 6:00 and 7:00. >> And if I didn't have a family like you >> And if I didn't have a family like you >> And if I didn't have a family like you know getting my son ready and I would know getting my son ready and I would know getting my son ready and I would probably work out right away, but I probably work out right away, but I probably work out right away, but I don't end up working out until like don't end up working out until like don't end up working out until like 8:30. 8:30. 8:30. >> So I'm you know >> So I'm you know >> So I'm you know >> still pretty early. What time do you go >> still pretty early. What time do you go >> still pretty early. What time do you go to sleep if you don't mind me asking? to sleep if you don't mind me asking? to sleep if you don't mind me asking? >> I'm I'm asleep like I'm asleep by 10:00. >> I'm I'm asleep like I'm asleep by 10:00. >> I'm I'm asleep like I'm asleep by 10:00. But usually in bed at 9 takes and an But usually in bed at 9 takes and an But usually in bed at 9 takes and an hour of just like you know hanging out hour of just like you know hanging out hour of just like you know hanging out and and and >> yeah so so um or 9:30 sometimes but yeah >> yeah so so um or 9:30 sometimes but yeah >> yeah so so um or 9:30 sometimes but yeah usually 10 o'clock is when I'm sleeping usually 10 o'clock is when I'm sleeping usually 10 o'clock is when I'm sleeping that's my my bedtime and uh so I do stop that's my my bedtime and uh so I do stop that's my my bedtime and uh so I do stop eating I try to stop eating by 7 p.m. eating I try to stop eating by 7 p.m. eating I try to stop eating by 7 p.m. But typically my first meal on it But typically my first meal on it But typically my first meal on it depends on the day, but it'll usually be depends on the day, but it'll usually be depends on the day, but it'll usually be like around 11, maybe sometimes 12. If like around 11, maybe sometimes 12. If like around 11, maybe sometimes 12. If I'm doing a podcast, it'll be later. And I'm doing a podcast, it'll be later. And I'm doing a podcast, it'll be later. And um I do like to be fasted in the morning um I do like to be fasted in the morning um I do like to be fasted in the morning because the cognitive benefits is is because the cognitive benefits is is because the cognitive benefits is is really what I'm interested in with that really what I'm interested in with that really what I'm interested in with that metabolic switch. And it does come down metabolic switch. And it does come down metabolic switch. And it does come down to ketones and I know that uh Mark to ketones and I know that uh Mark to ketones and I know that uh Mark Matson's talked a lot about this. I had Matson's talked a lot about this. I had Matson's talked a lot about this. I had him on my podcast a couple a few years him on my podcast a couple a few years him on my podcast a couple a few years ago actually. I learned so much. But the ago actually. I learned so much. But the ago actually. I learned so much. But the ketones like beta hydroxybutyrate are ketones like beta hydroxybutyrate are ketones like beta hydroxybutyrate are increasing GABA. They're like balancing increasing GABA. They're like balancing increasing GABA. They're like balancing the glutamate, the, you know, excitatory the glutamate, the, you know, excitatory the glutamate, the, you know, excitatory neurotransmitter with the inhibitory neurotransmitter with the inhibitory neurotransmitter with the inhibitory one, GABA. And I think the increasing one, GABA. And I think the increasing one, GABA. And I think the increasing GABA is what helps me and what I love GABA is what helps me and what I love GABA is what helps me and what I love the most because it does help, I think, the most because it does help, I think, the most because it does help, I think, quiet down some of the other, I don't quiet down some of the other, I don't quiet down some of the other, I don't know, chitter chatter in my brain and know, chitter chatter in my brain and know, chitter chatter in my brain and help me focus because it's like somehow help me focus because it's like somehow help me focus because it's like somehow the GABA is calming in a way. I don't I the GABA is calming in a way. I don't I the GABA is calming in a way. I don't I don't know exactly, you could probably don't know exactly, you could probably don't know exactly, you could probably describe it better than I can. All I describe it better than I can. All I describe it better than I can. All I know is that I really like it. And so in know is that I really like it. And so in know is that I really like it. And so in the mornings I like to be, you know, I the mornings I like to be, you know, I the mornings I like to be, you know, I like to be fasted. I like to be like to be fasted. I like to be like to be fasted. I like to be cognitively aware. It's when I get most cognitively aware. It's when I get most cognitively aware. It's when I get most of my productive work done and I feel of my productive work done and I feel of my productive work done and I feel smarter. So I'm doing it. And that's why smarter. So I'm doing it. And that's why smarter. So I'm doing it. And that's why I typically like to shift my breakfast I typically like to shift my breakfast I typically like to shift my breakfast to later. Now, I do I would say some to later. Now, I do I would say some to later. Now, I do I would say some days I do only eat two meals where I am days I do only eat two meals where I am days I do only eat two meals where I am on honestly I'm skipping the quote on honestly I'm skipping the quote on honestly I'm skipping the quote unquote breakfast, unquote breakfast, unquote breakfast, >> but uh some days I do have three meals >> but uh some days I do have three meals >> but uh some days I do have three meals and you know oftent times they're like and you know oftent times they're like and you know oftent times they're like different sized meals, right? And different sized meals, right? And different sized meals, right? And usually my if I do have three meals, the usually my if I do have three meals, the usually my if I do have three meals, the the the third one will be the in between the the third one will be the in between the the third one will be the in between the first meal and the second meal will the first meal and the second meal will the first meal and the second meal will be like a very like a half a or three4s be like a very like a half a or three4s be like a very like a half a or three4s of a turkey burger or something. So it's of a turkey burger or something. So it's of a turkey burger or something. So it's it's mostly protein and it's not heavy. it's mostly protein and it's not heavy. it's mostly protein and it's not heavy. >> But so I would say I'm you know usually >> But so I would say I'm you know usually >> But so I would say I'm you know usually 11 to seven probably is when I'm eating 11 to seven probably is when I'm eating 11 to seven probably is when I'm eating my meals most most days. Some days it's my meals most most days. Some days it's my meals most most days. Some days it's you know I I fast for a shorter period you know I I fast for a shorter period you know I I fast for a shorter period of time. of time. of time. >> Some days I wake up in the morning >> Some days I wake up in the morning >> Some days I wake up in the morning because I I did too early of of like I because I I did too early of of like I because I I did too early of of like I you know I stopped eating like like four you know I stopped eating like like four you know I stopped eating like like four or five hours before bed and I'm like I or five hours before bed and I'm like I or five hours before bed and I'm like I need to eat and I guess what I eat and need to eat and I guess what I eat and need to eat and I guess what I eat and then I work out and it's like that's you then I work out and it's like that's you then I work out and it's like that's you know you kind of just listen to to what know you kind of just listen to to what know you kind of just listen to to what your body's doing. Actually, Mark Matson your body's doing. Actually, Mark Matson your body's doing. Actually, Mark Matson just published a study very very just published a study very very just published a study very very recently showing that he did a I think recently showing that he did a I think recently showing that he did a I think he was doing a 52 intermittent fasting he was doing a 52 intermittent fasting he was doing a 52 intermittent fasting protocol where it's like two days you're protocol where it's like two days you're protocol where it's like two days you're getting pretty severe caloric getting pretty severe caloric getting pretty severe caloric restriction. Like you're eating one restriction. Like you're eating one restriction. Like you're eating one meal, but it's like 500 calories, you meal, but it's like 500 calories, you meal, but it's like 500 calories, you know, for that for the day and it's know, for that for the day and it's know, for that for the day and it's twice two days two days out of the week. twice two days two days out of the week. twice two days two days out of the week. The other five days you're eating The other five days you're eating The other five days you're eating normal. And compared that to calorie normal. And compared that to calorie normal. And compared that to calorie like eating eating like a healthy diet like eating eating like a healthy diet like eating eating like a healthy diet and they were somewhat calorie and they were somewhat calorie and they were somewhat calorie restricted but not quite as much as the restricted but not quite as much as the restricted but not quite as much as the people that were doing the fasting. And people that were doing the fasting. And people that were doing the fasting. And they had the fasting group had massive they had the fasting group had massive they had the fasting group had massive cognitive benefits like 20% improvement cognitive benefits like 20% improvement cognitive benefits like 20% improvement in a battery of tests that were done. in a battery of tests that were done. in a battery of tests that were done. >> He attributes that to the ketones and >> He attributes that to the ketones and >> He attributes that to the ketones and the effect of ketones on GABA. the effect of ketones on GABA. the effect of ketones on GABA. >> He attributes it to the ketones and like >> He attributes it to the ketones and like >> He attributes it to the ketones and like can you get that to some degree with can you get that to some degree with can you get that to some degree with caloric restriction? Probably especially caloric restriction? Probably especially caloric restriction? Probably especially the more severe caloric restriction. You the more severe caloric restriction. You the more severe caloric restriction. You do you can if we're talking about weight do you can if we're talking about weight do you can if we're talking about weight loss caloric restriction is key, right? loss caloric restriction is key, right? loss caloric restriction is key, right? You have to have that. If we're talking You have to have that. If we're talking You have to have that. If we're talking about the cardiovascular reset, like about the cardiovascular reset, like about the cardiovascular reset, like caloric restriction, if you're eating caloric restriction, if you're eating caloric restriction, if you're eating meals right before bed, you're not going meals right before bed, you're not going meals right before bed, you're not going to get that. like that those studies to get that. like that those studies to get that. like that those studies have been done. And I think, you know, have been done. And I think, you know, have been done. And I think, you know, Courtney Peterson was some of the one of Courtney Peterson was some of the one of Courtney Peterson was some of the one of the first ones to really show that the first ones to really show that the first ones to really show that effect on blood pressure, you know, like effect on blood pressure, you know, like effect on blood pressure, you know, like really significant. In fact, if you if really significant. In fact, if you if really significant. In fact, if you if you do early timerestricted eating and you do early timerestricted eating and you do early timerestricted eating and stop eating, you know, I don't know how stop eating, you know, I don't know how stop eating, you know, I don't know how early in the day it was, maybe 6 p.m., early in the day it was, maybe 6 p.m., early in the day it was, maybe 6 p.m., maybe it was 8:00 p.m., but you know, maybe it was 8:00 p.m., but you know, maybe it was 8:00 p.m., but you know, there was like a blood pressure drop there was like a blood pressure drop there was like a blood pressure drop that was like 10, you know, 10, I think that was like 10, you know, 10, I think that was like 10, you know, 10, I think was um was um was um >> uh points or something millimeters of >> uh points or something millimeters of >> uh points or something millimeters of mercury. mercury. mercury. >> Significant. >> Significant. >> Significant. >> What is it? Is it? >> What is it? Is it? >> What is it? Is it? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, I mean, that's very significant. >> So, I mean, that's very significant. >> So, I mean, that's very significant. It's on it's on magnitude of what you'd It's on it's on magnitude of what you'd It's on it's on magnitude of what you'd see with like some of the firstline, you see with like some of the firstline, you see with like some of the firstline, you know, drugs that are used to treat know, drugs that are used to treat know, drugs that are used to treat hypertension. I would never say for hypertension. I would never say for hypertension. I would never say for someone to do that, but I'm just saying someone to do that, but I'm just saying someone to do that, but I'm just saying it's significant and that's not it's significant and that's not it's significant and that's not something that you typically see if something that you typically see if something that you typically see if you're eating, you know, fewer calories, you're eating, you know, fewer calories, you're eating, you know, fewer calories, but you're eating constantly throughout but you're eating constantly throughout but you're eating constantly throughout the day. the day. the day. >> So, I do think there are special >> So, I do think there are special >> So, I do think there are special benefits that can be had, but again, benefits that can be had, but again, benefits that can be had, but again, it's also a tool that people use. I use it's also a tool that people use. I use it's also a tool that people use. I use it as a tool as well. I don't like to it as a tool as well. I don't like to it as a tool as well. I don't like to count calories. Like, I don't, you know, count calories. Like, I don't, you know, count calories. Like, I don't, you know, some people do and that's fine then, you some people do and that's fine then, you some people do and that's fine then, you know, that's that's the way you can you know, that's that's the way you can you know, that's that's the way you can you can do it. But I like it for the can do it. But I like it for the can do it. But I like it for the metabolic switch as well. metabolic switch as well. metabolic switch as well. >> Um, if I were an endurance athlete >> Um, if I were an endurance athlete >> Um, if I were an endurance athlete running, you know, 10, 14 miles a day, I running, you know, 10, 14 miles a day, I running, you know, 10, 14 miles a day, I wouldn't have to do this. That would be wouldn't have to do this. That would be wouldn't have to do this. That would be my metabolic switch. And it's not that my metabolic switch. And it's not that my metabolic switch. And it's not that I'm not metabolically flexible. I mean, I'm not metabolically flexible. I mean, I'm not metabolically flexible. I mean, I do I think you can just training I do I think you can just training I do I think you can just training itself, you know, does to some degree itself, you know, does to some degree itself, you know, does to some degree help with metabolic flexibility, right? help with metabolic flexibility, right? help with metabolic flexibility, right? the ability to switch between burning the ability to switch between burning the ability to switch between burning glucose and carbohydrates and and then glucose and carbohydrates and and then glucose and carbohydrates and and then burning burn using fat fat and fatty burning burn using fat fat and fatty burning burn using fat fat and fatty acids as your energy source. It's that I acids as your energy source. It's that I acids as your energy source. It's that I really I want that I want that real really I want that I want that real really I want that I want that real switch to be on and I want it to be on switch to be on and I want it to be on switch to be on and I want it to be on for a little bit of of time and then I for a little bit of of time and then I for a little bit of of time and then I want to turn it off by eating. You know, want to turn it off by eating. You know, want to turn it off by eating. You know, I'm not starving myself. And I think you I'm not starving myself. And I think you I'm not starving myself. And I think you can go too far with exercise and with can go too far with exercise and with can go too far with exercise and with fasting. fasting. fasting. >> The problems with fasting and the people >> The problems with fasting and the people >> The problems with fasting and the people that are like, "Oh, fasting is terrible that are like, "Oh, fasting is terrible that are like, "Oh, fasting is terrible for you." I mean, it comes down to one, for you." I mean, it comes down to one, for you." I mean, it comes down to one, they were all about it's like the weight they were all about it's like the weight they were all about it's like the weight loss is not just due to intermittent loss is not just due to intermittent loss is not just due to intermittent fasting itself. It's due to calorie fasting itself. It's due to calorie fasting itself. It's due to calorie restriction. Guess what? They were restriction. Guess what? They were restriction. Guess what? They were right. They were right. Number two, right. They were right. Number two, right. They were right. Number two, they're afraid of losing muscle. And I they're afraid of losing muscle. And I they're afraid of losing muscle. And I think we have enough data now that it's think we have enough data now that it's think we have enough data now that it's if you're training, if you're doing if you're training, if you're doing if you're training, if you're doing resistance training, you're not going to resistance training, you're not going to resistance training, you're not going to be losing muscle. Now, maybe you won't be losing muscle. Now, maybe you won't be losing muscle. Now, maybe you won't gain as much as if you were eating more gain as much as if you were eating more gain as much as if you were eating more protein, but um you could you could just protein, but um you could you could just protein, but um you could you could just eat more protein um within the window eat more protein um within the window eat more protein um within the window that you're eating and be fine, right? that you're eating and be fine, right? that you're eating and be fine, right? So, I think that's the other thing that So, I think that's the other thing that So, I think that's the other thing that people are worried about is muscle loss, people are worried about is muscle loss, people are worried about is muscle loss, including myself. And I train so much including myself. And I train so much including myself. And I train so much now. And it just works well for me. And now. And it just works well for me. And now. And it just works well for me. And I feel good and it's like this clean I feel good and it's like this clean I feel good and it's like this clean feeling. You feel cognitively sharp and feeling. You feel cognitively sharp and feeling. You feel cognitively sharp and it works. And I think that the metabolic it works. And I think that the metabolic it works. And I think that the metabolic switch is something to not be scared of switch is something to not be scared of switch is something to not be scared of as long as you're not again going to the as long as you're not again going to the as long as you're not again going to the extreme, right? And if you don't want to extreme, right? And if you don't want to extreme, right? And if you don't want to train while you're fast, don't train train while you're fast, don't train train while you're fast, don't train while you're fasted. You don't have to. while you're fasted. You don't have to. while you're fasted. You don't have to. you know, I I think there's a little bit you know, I I think there's a little bit you know, I I think there's a little bit of an added benefit that works for me in of an added benefit that works for me in of an added benefit that works for me in terms of burning fat, which is what I, terms of burning fat, which is what I, terms of burning fat, which is what I, you know, particularly visceral fat. And you know, particularly visceral fat. And you know, particularly visceral fat. And to me, that that's that's what works to me, that that's that's what works to me, that that's that's what works well. But, um, you can obviously like if well. But, um, you can obviously like if well. But, um, you can obviously like if you're training hard and a lot and you're training hard and a lot and you're training hard and a lot and really fasting, maybe that's too much. really fasting, maybe that's too much. really fasting, maybe that's too much. It's too much of a stress. So, you have It's too much of a stress. So, you have It's too much of a stress. So, you have to kind of figure it out for yourself. to kind of figure it out for yourself. to kind of figure it out for yourself. >> Yeah. Yeah, I think the uh the known >> Yeah. Yeah, I think the uh the known >> Yeah. Yeah, I think the uh the known increase in adrenaline from being increase in adrenaline from being increase in adrenaline from being slightly fasted is awesome for cognitive slightly fasted is awesome for cognitive slightly fasted is awesome for cognitive function. Um I think it allows people to function. Um I think it allows people to function. Um I think it allows people to ingest fewer stimulants in the form of ingest fewer stimulants in the form of ingest fewer stimulants in the form of caffeine. You can, you know, you don't caffeine. You can, you know, you don't caffeine. You can, you know, you don't need as much caffeine when you're doing need as much caffeine when you're doing need as much caffeine when you're doing some fasting. I what you describe is um some fasting. I what you describe is um some fasting. I what you describe is um similar to what I do, although I notice similar to what I do, although I notice similar to what I do, although I notice these days I'm waking up hungrier and these days I'm waking up hungrier and these days I'm waking up hungrier and hungrier and I attribute that actually hungrier and I attribute that actually hungrier and I attribute that actually to my last bite of food, you know, to my last bite of food, you know, to my last bite of food, you know, coming a little bit earlier in the day coming a little bit earlier in the day coming a little bit earlier in the day and further from sleep. And also that and further from sleep. And also that and further from sleep. And also that thermogenic effect of eating raises core thermogenic effect of eating raises core thermogenic effect of eating raises core body temperature and you know to fall body temperature and you know to fall body temperature and you know to fall asleep you want your body temperature asleep you want your body temperature asleep you want your body temperature dropping. So it all starts to what you dropping. So it all starts to what you dropping. So it all starts to what you know what I think is kind of uh is very know what I think is kind of uh is very know what I think is kind of uh is very exciting to me is that for a few years exciting to me is that for a few years exciting to me is that for a few years there it seemed like there were just so there it seemed like there were just so there it seemed like there were just so many things so many protocols so many many things so many protocols so many many things so many protocols so many studies but when I think about cortisol studies but when I think about cortisol studies but when I think about cortisol high in the morning low in the evening high in the morning low in the evening high in the morning low in the evening bracketing the day that what works best bracketing the day that what works best bracketing the day that what works best for sleep but what you're describing for sleep but what you're describing for sleep but what you're describing certainly today you really in addition certainly today you really in addition certainly today you really in addition to many other things really clarified to many other things really clarified to many other things really clarified the relationship between gut and the relationship between gut and the relationship between gut and inflammation and brain and other tissues inflammation and brain and other tissues inflammation and brain and other tissues things start to fall into bins that it's things start to fall into bins that it's things start to fall into bins that it's you know like all of bi algae so you know like all of bi algae so you know like all of bi algae so beautifully organized that it doesn't beautifully organized that it doesn't beautifully organized that it doesn't mean long lists of things for people to mean long lists of things for people to mean long lists of things for people to do. I love the idea that while it sounds do. I love the idea that while it sounds do. I love the idea that while it sounds like you're just saying, "Oh, if I wake like you're just saying, "Oh, if I wake like you're just saying, "Oh, if I wake up and I'm hungry, I eat and if I'm not up and I'm hungry, I eat and if I'm not up and I'm hungry, I eat and if I'm not and I think I can train fast, I like to and I think I can train fast, I like to and I think I can train fast, I like to train fasted." That might seem like a train fasted." That might seem like a train fasted." That might seem like a like an obvious thing to some, but I like an obvious thing to some, but I like an obvious thing to some, but I think it's so critical because the think it's so critical because the think it's so critical because the mechanism that you're chasing in both mechanism that you're chasing in both mechanism that you're chasing in both cases is the same. you're trying to get cases is the same. you're trying to get cases is the same. you're trying to get great sleep, great great workouts, but great sleep, great great workouts, but great sleep, great great workouts, but you're not trying to optimize the you're not trying to optimize the you're not trying to optimize the workout to the point where, you know, workout to the point where, you know, workout to the point where, you know, you disrupt your sleep or you insist on you disrupt your sleep or you insist on you disrupt your sleep or you insist on doing something like eating or fasting, doing something like eating or fasting, doing something like eating or fasting, whatever it is. So, the find out what whatever it is. So, the find out what whatever it is. So, the find out what works for you thing is is uh is so works for you thing is is uh is so works for you thing is is uh is so crucial because it's about feel that crucial because it's about feel that crucial because it's about feel that fits into a logic and uh I have to say fits into a logic and uh I have to say fits into a logic and uh I have to say that's initially what drew me to your that's initially what drew me to your that's initially what drew me to your work is there's a logic. You're not just work is there's a logic. You're not just work is there's a logic. You're not just saying, "Okay, this study said this, so saying, "Okay, this study said this, so saying, "Okay, this study said this, so I'm going to do this." It fits into a I'm going to do this." It fits into a I'm going to do this." It fits into a broader logic that comes from your broader logic that comes from your broader logic that comes from your training. So I just that's a just a training. So I just that's a just a training. So I just that's a just a point of gratitude and I hope it will point of gratitude and I hope it will point of gratitude and I hope it will frame in people's minds that yes do what frame in people's minds that yes do what frame in people's minds that yes do what you feel do what works for you but try you feel do what works for you but try you feel do what works for you but try and frame it in a certain logic and frame it in a certain logic and frame it in a certain logic >> and that will because that's actually >> and that will because that's actually >> and that will because that's actually what gives you flexibility over time what gives you flexibility over time what gives you flexibility over time like oh you're traveling you have to eat like oh you're traveling you have to eat like oh you're traveling you have to eat a little later okay the next morning a little later okay the next morning a little later okay the next morning maybe train fasted maybe train fasted maybe train fasted >> or vice versa >> or vice versa >> or vice versa >> yeah it's about the habit exactly it's >> yeah it's about the habit exactly it's >> yeah it's about the habit exactly it's about the habit and there are days when about the habit and there are days when about the habit and there are days when I just like I can't train fast or there I just like I can't train fast or there I just like I can't train fast or there days I wake up and I have to eat exactly days I wake up and I have to eat exactly days I wake up and I have to eat exactly where you you you know and there are where you you you know and there are where you you you know and there are days when I when I when I'm eating later days when I when I when I'm eating later days when I when I when I'm eating later because of social obl obligations and I because of social obl obligations and I because of social obl obligations and I don't freak out about it because it's don't freak out about it because it's don't freak out about it because it's about the habit. about the habit. about the habit. >> I like the idea of one metabolic switch >> I like the idea of one metabolic switch >> I like the idea of one metabolic switch uh per day. You know, you said you could uh per day. You know, you said you could uh per day. You know, you said you could get it from exercise and I thought, you get it from exercise and I thought, you get it from exercise and I thought, you know, I can really imagine that in 5 know, I can really imagine that in 5 know, I can really imagine that in 5 years a concept of of health that years a concept of of health that years a concept of of health that hopefully everyone understands out there hopefully everyone understands out there hopefully everyone understands out there is that find a way to generate the is that find a way to generate the is that find a way to generate the metabolic switch once per day. Maybe you metabolic switch once per day. Maybe you metabolic switch once per day. Maybe you fast and exercise, maybe you just fast and exercise, maybe you just fast and exercise, maybe you just exercise, maybe you just fast because exercise, maybe you just fast because exercise, maybe you just fast because you can't exercise you can't exercise you can't exercise >> because people's schedules are >> because people's schedules are >> because people's schedules are constrained. But the notion of the constrained. But the notion of the constrained. But the notion of the metabolic switches being here's where it metabolic switches being here's where it metabolic switches being here's where it fits in exactly the logic is you want fits in exactly the logic is you want fits in exactly the logic is you want the metabolic switch. you do. And it's the metabolic switch. you do. And it's the metabolic switch. you do. And it's not just, you know, there's other not just, you know, there's other not just, you know, there's other components of this metabolic switch that components of this metabolic switch that components of this metabolic switch that we haven't even discussed, which is like we haven't even discussed, which is like we haven't even discussed, which is like when you're in that fasted state, when when you're in that fasted state, when when you're in that fasted state, when you're in the ketosis, like that's also you're in the ketosis, like that's also you're in the ketosis, like that's also repair mode for your body, right? So, repair mode for your body, right? So, repair mode for your body, right? So, there's the fed state, the grow there's the fed state, the grow there's the fed state, the grow anabolic, and of course, we're all anabolic, and of course, we're all anabolic, and of course, we're all obsessed with anabolic now because the obsessed with anabolic now because the obsessed with anabolic now because the associated with muscle growth, right? associated with muscle growth, right? associated with muscle growth, right? But there's also the repair and recovery But there's also the repair and recovery But there's also the repair and recovery state, right? And so, you don't always state, right? And so, you don't always state, right? And so, you don't always want the growth on, right? You want to want the growth on, right? You want to want the growth on, right? You want to repair damage and repairing damage can repair damage and repairing damage can repair damage and repairing damage can be damage to DNA. A lot of these genes be damage to DNA. A lot of these genes be damage to DNA. A lot of these genes are activated, you know, when when are activated, you know, when when are activated, you know, when when you're in a nutrient deprived state, you're in a nutrient deprived state, you're in a nutrient deprived state, right? When you're in that metabolic right? When you're in that metabolic right? When you're in that metabolic switch and autophagy and that's another switch and autophagy and that's another switch and autophagy and that's another one that people some it's a buzz it's a one that people some it's a buzz it's a one that people some it's a buzz it's a buzzword now, but it is something that buzzword now, but it is something that buzzword now, but it is something that is activated. It's first of all, we have is activated. It's first of all, we have is activated. It's first of all, we have basil amount of autophagy going on at basil amount of autophagy going on at basil amount of autophagy going on at any point, right? Like that's happening any point, right? Like that's happening any point, right? Like that's happening like like like >> you don't have to fast. You don't have >> you don't have to fast. You don't have >> you don't have to fast. You don't have to fast to fast to fast >> or be in a caloric deficit which will >> or be in a caloric deficit which will >> or be in a caloric deficit which will also exacerbate it, also exacerbate it, also exacerbate it, >> right? You do have fasted activated >> right? You do have fasted activated >> right? You do have fasted activated autophagy and certain tissues are more autophagy and certain tissues are more autophagy and certain tissues are more sensitive like the liver and the brain sensitive like the liver and the brain sensitive like the liver and the brain actually and so you know we don't have a actually and so you know we don't have a actually and so you know we don't have a lot of human data on that in terms of lot of human data on that in terms of lot of human data on that in terms of like fasting. Exercise also activates like fasting. Exercise also activates like fasting. Exercise also activates it. We don't have a lot of great quality it. We don't have a lot of great quality it. We don't have a lot of great quality human data and that's for a lot of human data and that's for a lot of human data and that's for a lot of reasons. One is the tissues that are reasons. One is the tissues that are reasons. One is the tissues that are most responsive to fasting induced most responsive to fasting induced most responsive to fasting induced autophagy are not blood cells. In fact, autophagy are not blood cells. In fact, autophagy are not blood cells. In fact, like blood cells are pretty restricted like blood cells are pretty restricted like blood cells are pretty restricted in their response to fasted induced in their response to fasted induced in their response to fasted induced autophagy, but that's the easiest cell autophagy, but that's the easiest cell autophagy, but that's the easiest cell to act, you know, to excess if you're to act, you know, to excess if you're to act, you know, to excess if you're going to measure autophagy in humans, going to measure autophagy in humans, going to measure autophagy in humans, right? Muscle biopsies have been done. right? Muscle biopsies have been done. right? Muscle biopsies have been done. That's the muscle is also response That's the muscle is also response That's the muscle is also response responsive to to fasting induced responsive to to fasting induced responsive to to fasting induced autophagy. It's responsive to exercise autophagy. It's responsive to exercise autophagy. It's responsive to exercise induced autophagy. By the way, the induced autophagy. By the way, the induced autophagy. By the way, the exercise again, it's increasing energy exercise again, it's increasing energy exercise again, it's increasing energy expenditure. So, at this end of the day, expenditure. So, at this end of the day, expenditure. So, at this end of the day, you're you're getting into that sort of you're you're getting into that sort of you're you're getting into that sort of ketosis, right, state, the metabolic ketosis, right, state, the metabolic ketosis, right, state, the metabolic switch. So, um, there are studies switch. So, um, there are studies switch. So, um, there are studies showing that there's a signal there. Uh, showing that there's a signal there. Uh, showing that there's a signal there. Uh, but, you know, for some people it's not but, you know, for some people it's not but, you know, for some people it's not enough. Well, it's not enough. We don't enough. Well, it's not enough. We don't enough. Well, it's not enough. We don't really know and you can't go off the really know and you can't go off the really know and you can't go off the animal data. And, you know, I think to animal data. And, you know, I think to animal data. And, you know, I think to some degree it's going to be hard to go some degree it's going to be hard to go some degree it's going to be hard to go get a liver. I mean, maybe we'll have get a liver. I mean, maybe we'll have get a liver. I mean, maybe we'll have some tools soon that we can easily some tools soon that we can easily some tools soon that we can easily access, you know, liver biopsy and access, you know, liver biopsy and access, you know, liver biopsy and that'd be great for many reasons, right? that'd be great for many reasons, right? that'd be great for many reasons, right? Not just looking at autophagy. But I Not just looking at autophagy. But I Not just looking at autophagy. But I think that to some degree you kind of think that to some degree you kind of think that to some degree you kind of just have to know that okay autophagy is just have to know that okay autophagy is just have to know that okay autophagy is happening right now in our in our cells happening right now in our in our cells happening right now in our in our cells like so we know that it's activated by like so we know that it's activated by like so we know that it's activated by like fasting by exercise by these types like fasting by exercise by these types like fasting by exercise by these types of stress and so why wouldn't it be of stress and so why wouldn't it be of stress and so why wouldn't it be increased somewhat and and when I say increased somewhat and and when I say increased somewhat and and when I say autophagy I'm talking about clearing out autophagy I'm talking about clearing out autophagy I'm talking about clearing out gunk that's built up in your cell you gunk that's built up in your cell you gunk that's built up in your cell you know throughout the day we're talking know throughout the day we're talking know throughout the day we're talking about pieces of DNA fragments of DNA about pieces of DNA fragments of DNA about pieces of DNA fragments of DNA we're talking about protein aggregates we're talking about protein aggregates we're talking about protein aggregates that didn't get they're either properly that didn't get they're either properly that didn't get they're either properly like not properly folding or they're not like not properly folding or they're not like not properly folding or they're not being degraded, right? All sorts of being degraded, right? All sorts of being degraded, right? All sorts of stuff, right? And it's important. This stuff, right? And it's important. This stuff, right? And it's important. This is a cleanup process. It's important. is a cleanup process. It's important. is a cleanup process. It's important. And so, again, that's another part of And so, again, that's another part of And so, again, that's another part of the metabolic switch that I think is the metabolic switch that I think is the metabolic switch that I think is it's important to think about because we it's important to think about because we it's important to think about because we are really obsessed with anabolic, are really obsessed with anabolic, are really obsessed with anabolic, anabolic, is it anabolic? It's great. anabolic, is it anabolic? It's great. anabolic, is it anabolic? It's great. You do want to you definitely want to You do want to you definitely want to You do want to you definitely want to grow muscle, right? You do you do want grow muscle, right? You do you do want grow muscle, right? You do you do want to grow new brain cells and stuff, too. to grow new brain cells and stuff, too. to grow new brain cells and stuff, too. But but you also want to repair and you But but you also want to repair and you But but you also want to repair and you want to have recovery and and that's want to have recovery and and that's want to have recovery and and that's that's another you know it's like the that's another you know it's like the that's another you know it's like the yin and the yang right you kind of want yin and the yang right you kind of want yin and the yang right you kind of want both. both. both. >> So I think that's important to think >> So I think that's important to think >> So I think that's important to think about as well. Um and fasting about as well. Um and fasting about as well. Um and fasting intermittent fasting I do I like the intermittent fasting I do I like the intermittent fasting I do I like the daily metabolic switch. It may not be daily metabolic switch. It may not be daily metabolic switch. It may not be for everyone. You know I mean like I for everyone. You know I mean like I for everyone. You know I mean like I said it's not I do think that you can said it's not I do think that you can said it's not I do think that you can find other ways to get there. Exercise find other ways to get there. Exercise find other ways to get there. Exercise being the big one. Some people do being the big one. Some people do being the big one. Some people do caloric restriction. Some people don't caloric restriction. Some people don't caloric restriction. Some people don't need to. Caloric restriction is need to. Caloric restriction is need to. Caloric restriction is something that helps if you're trying to something that helps if you're trying to something that helps if you're trying to lose weight, right? Um, it helps if lose weight, right? Um, it helps if lose weight, right? Um, it helps if you're trying to lose visceral fat. It's you're trying to lose visceral fat. It's you're trying to lose visceral fat. It's one of the main ways you can do it. one of the main ways you can do it. one of the main ways you can do it. Intermittent fasting, caloric Intermittent fasting, caloric Intermittent fasting, caloric restriction, exercise, aerobic exercise restriction, exercise, aerobic exercise restriction, exercise, aerobic exercise that helps lose visceral fat. But I that helps lose visceral fat. But I that helps lose visceral fat. But I mean, obviously, we don't always want to mean, obviously, we don't always want to mean, obviously, we don't always want to be in a caloric deficit, but we always be in a caloric deficit, but we always be in a caloric deficit, but we always don't want to be constantly eating don't want to be constantly eating don't want to be constantly eating either. Mhm. either. Mhm. either. Mhm. >> And that's why it comes down to I think >> And that's why it comes down to I think >> And that's why it comes down to I think the simple rule for people like if the simple rule for people like if the simple rule for people like if they're going to do some sort of they're going to do some sort of they're going to do some sort of metabolic switch, some sort of metabolic switch, some sort of metabolic switch, some sort of intermittent fast, it would be like, intermittent fast, it would be like, intermittent fast, it would be like, okay, let's try to at least stop eating okay, let's try to at least stop eating okay, let's try to at least stop eating 3 hours before bed because then you're 3 hours before bed because then you're 3 hours before bed because then you're at least going to be extending that fast at least going to be extending that fast at least going to be extending that fast somewhat by 3 hours, right? So I think somewhat by 3 hours, right? So I think somewhat by 3 hours, right? So I think that's and plus you're getting that the that's and plus you're getting that the that's and plus you're getting that the cardiovascular benefits that are really cardiovascular benefits that are really cardiovascular benefits that are really seem to be important and then not eating seem to be important and then not eating seem to be important and then not eating at night. So there's all these studies at night. So there's all these studies at night. So there's all these studies that have come out of Israel. I think that have come out of Israel. I think that have come out of Israel. I think it's is it Jacobitz? Jigabitz and Freud, it's is it Jacobitz? Jigabitz and Freud, it's is it Jacobitz? Jigabitz and Freud, they're two researchers. Um, I mean, they're two researchers. Um, I mean, they're two researchers. Um, I mean, Sash and Panda, I remember years ago, Sash and Panda, I remember years ago, Sash and Panda, I remember years ago, showed me one of the studies that was showed me one of the studies that was showed me one of the studies that was like published in science showing that like published in science showing that like published in science showing that if you have the same exact meal, same if you have the same exact meal, same if you have the same exact meal, same calorie intake, same composition, calorie intake, same composition, calorie intake, same composition, macronutrient composition in the macronutrient composition in the macronutrient composition in the morning, the afternoon, and the evening, morning, the afternoon, and the evening, morning, the afternoon, and the evening, the insulin response is like is the insulin response is like is the insulin response is like is different. Like you're the most insulin different. Like you're the most insulin different. Like you're the most insulin sensitive early in the morning. As you sensitive early in the morning. As you sensitive early in the morning. As you start to go towards the evening and start to go towards the evening and start to go towards the evening and particularly three hours before your particularly three hours before your particularly three hours before your natural bedtime, you your mel your natural bedtime, you your mel your natural bedtime, you your mel your melatonin levels naturally rise, right? melatonin levels naturally rise, right? melatonin levels naturally rise, right? And as you know, you know, melatonin is And as you know, you know, melatonin is And as you know, you know, melatonin is important for the onset of sleep and and important for the onset of sleep and and important for the onset of sleep and and preparing the body for sleep, but it's preparing the body for sleep, but it's preparing the body for sleep, but it's also preparing the other organs for rest also preparing the other organs for rest also preparing the other organs for rest and recovery, including the pancreas, and recovery, including the pancreas, and recovery, including the pancreas, which is making insulin. And so, you're which is making insulin. And so, you're which is making insulin. And so, you're not making as much insulin when it's not making as much insulin when it's not making as much insulin when it's closer to your natural bedtime because closer to your natural bedtime because closer to your natural bedtime because of the melatonin levels that are rising. of the melatonin levels that are rising. of the melatonin levels that are rising. And so you don't want to be eating And so you don't want to be eating And so you don't want to be eating particularly a carbohydrate- richch particularly a carbohydrate- richch particularly a carbohydrate- richch meal, but a meal, you're not going to be meal, but a meal, you're not going to be meal, but a meal, you're not going to be as as insulin sensitive as as insulin sensitive as as insulin sensitive >> in the last three hours before sleep. >> in the last three hours before sleep. >> in the last three hours before sleep. >> Yeah. When you're starting to get into >> Yeah. When you're starting to get into >> Yeah. When you're starting to get into that melatonin rising phase of, you that melatonin rising phase of, you that melatonin rising phase of, you know, of of your cycle. know, of of your cycle. know, of of your cycle. >> Yeah. It's interesting. I I think when >> Yeah. It's interesting. I I think when >> Yeah. It's interesting. I I think when people hear, "Okay, you're most insulin people hear, "Okay, you're most insulin people hear, "Okay, you're most insulin sensitive in the morning. That would be sensitive in the morning. That would be sensitive in the morning. That would be the time to eat your biggest meal." But the time to eat your biggest meal." But the time to eat your biggest meal." But then people say, "Wait, but then I'm then people say, "Wait, but then I'm then people say, "Wait, but then I'm trying to fast and I'm trying to trying to fast and I'm trying to trying to fast and I'm trying to exercise and like how do I do this?" I exercise and like how do I do this?" I exercise and like how do I do this?" I think that's where for them the think that's where for them the think that's where for them the confusion comes in. And it to me it's confusion comes in. And it to me it's confusion comes in. And it to me it's very simple. Uh just because your very simple. Uh just because your very simple. Uh just because your insulin sensitivity is highest first insulin sensitivity is highest first insulin sensitivity is highest first thing in the morning doesn't mean you thing in the morning doesn't mean you thing in the morning doesn't mean you have to eat right away. I mean it just have to eat right away. I mean it just have to eat right away. I mean it just means avoid eating too close to bedtime means avoid eating too close to bedtime means avoid eating too close to bedtime right sometime during the day. And also right sometime during the day. And also right sometime during the day. And also if you exercise fasted or after a small if you exercise fasted or after a small if you exercise fasted or after a small snack it's kind of interesting when snack it's kind of interesting when snack it's kind of interesting when Stacy Sim said not everyone should Stacy Sim said not everyone should Stacy Sim said not everyone should exercise fasted. She said especially a exercise fasted. She said especially a exercise fasted. She said especially a lot of women don't like to do that. She lot of women don't like to do that. She lot of women don't like to do that. She didn't say eat a meal. She said like didn't say eat a meal. She said like didn't say eat a meal. She said like have a scoop of whey protein with some I have a scoop of whey protein with some I have a scoop of whey protein with some I think she said with like some almond think she said with like some almond think she said with like some almond milk in it. And it and you couldn't milk in it. And it and you couldn't milk in it. And it and you couldn't believe the response on the internet. It believe the response on the internet. It believe the response on the internet. It was like vindication, right? And I get was like vindication, right? And I get was like vindication, right? And I get it. It was like it vindicated people's it. It was like it vindicated people's it. It was like it vindicated people's experience like, "Oh, thank you. Thank experience like, "Oh, thank you. Thank experience like, "Oh, thank you. Thank you." And it told me something really you." And it told me something really you." And it told me something really important about the kind of sociology of important about the kind of sociology of important about the kind of sociology of what we do, which is when something what we do, which is when something what we do, which is when something validates people's experience, they they validates people's experience, they they validates people's experience, they they love it. But it doesn't mean that the love it. But it doesn't mean that the love it. But it doesn't mean that the things that work for other people don't things that work for other people don't things that work for other people don't work. And I think that that's the the work. And I think that that's the the work. And I think that that's the the part that gets lost. And so if a study part that gets lost. And so if a study part that gets lost. And so if a study shows that insulin sensitivity is shows that insulin sensitivity is shows that insulin sensitivity is highest in the morning, but you can only highest in the morning, but you can only highest in the morning, but you can only exercise first thing in the morning, exercise first thing in the morning, exercise first thing in the morning, what do you do? You know, so um you do what do you do? You know, so um you do what do you do? You know, so um you do the best you can. Right. Right. I think the best you can. Right. Right. I think the best you can. Right. Right. I think is what it comes down to. In fact, I is what it comes down to. In fact, I is what it comes down to. In fact, I meant to ask you earlier and this is a meant to ask you earlier and this is a meant to ask you earlier and this is a good time to um to talk about this. uh good time to um to talk about this. uh good time to um to talk about this. uh you've described that if you are you've described that if you are you've described that if you are slightly sleepd deprived, so not four slightly sleepd deprived, so not four slightly sleepd deprived, so not four hours per night or an allnighter, but if hours per night or an allnighter, but if hours per night or an allnighter, but if you've only slept five or let's say you've only slept five or let's say you've only slept five or let's say you're getting an hour or two less than you're getting an hour or two less than you're getting an hour or two less than your normal ration of sleep, there's your normal ration of sleep, there's your normal ration of sleep, there's some pretty significant inflammation some pretty significant inflammation some pretty significant inflammation that's that that occurs. That's not that's that that occurs. That's not that's that that occurs. That's not good. But I've heard you cover that good. But I've heard you cover that good. But I've heard you cover that exercising can actually offset some of exercising can actually offset some of exercising can actually offset some of that inflammation. This answers a a an that inflammation. This answers a a an that inflammation. This answers a a an important and common question, which is important and common question, which is important and common question, which is if I have to pick between sleep and if I have to pick between sleep and if I have to pick between sleep and exercise, what do I do? Um, and it exercise, what do I do? Um, and it exercise, what do I do? Um, and it sounds like if it's one night poor sounds like if it's one night poor sounds like if it's one night poor sleep, exercise, but you don't want to sleep, exercise, but you don't want to sleep, exercise, but you don't want to make it a habit. That's Do I have that make it a habit. That's Do I have that make it a habit. That's Do I have that right? right? right? >> Yeah. I mean, so this this data, a lot >> Yeah. I mean, so this this data, a lot >> Yeah. I mean, so this this data, a lot of it actually comes from you can cause of it actually comes from you can cause of it actually comes from you can cause even acute insulin resistance after like even acute insulin resistance after like even acute insulin resistance after like a night of of sleep deprivation. a night of of sleep deprivation. a night of of sleep deprivation. Certainly after two to three nights of Certainly after two to three nights of Certainly after two to three nights of sleep deprivation. And you know, again, sleep deprivation. And you know, again, sleep deprivation. And you know, again, a lot of that's coming down to some of a lot of that's coming down to some of a lot of that's coming down to some of the things we've already talked about. the things we've already talked about. the things we've already talked about. And uh but exercise can help basically And uh but exercise can help basically And uh but exercise can help basically negate a lot of that. And I learned that negate a lot of that. And I learned that negate a lot of that. And I learned that firsthand through experience when I was firsthand through experience when I was firsthand through experience when I was wearing a continuous glucose monitor uh wearing a continuous glucose monitor uh wearing a continuous glucose monitor uh and when I was a new parent. Of course, and when I was a new parent. Of course, and when I was a new parent. Of course, you're not getting enough sleep. And so you're not getting enough sleep. And so you're not getting enough sleep. And so that's I learned it before I actually that's I learned it before I actually that's I learned it before I actually dove into the science about it. I I dove into the science about it. I I dove into the science about it. I I learned about it through my own data learned about it through my own data learned about it through my own data where I was, you know, I wasn't where I was, you know, I wasn't where I was, you know, I wasn't exercising as much and particularly in exercising as much and particularly in exercising as much and particularly in the first month really like you're kind the first month really like you're kind the first month really like you're kind of in a cave as a new mom. You don't of in a cave as a new mom. You don't of in a cave as a new mom. You don't really you're not really exercising much really you're not really exercising much really you're not really exercising much at all. evolution wants the the baby to at all. evolution wants the the baby to at all. evolution wants the the baby to survive. survive. survive. >> You're recovering, too. I mean, child >> You're recovering, too. I mean, child >> You're recovering, too. I mean, child birth is a very it's a very traumatic birth is a very it's a very traumatic birth is a very it's a very traumatic process on your body. process on your body. process on your body. >> And so, um, I noticed that my my glucose >> And so, um, I noticed that my my glucose >> And so, um, I noticed that my my glucose response was like it was like response was like it was like response was like it was like pre-diabetic and I was like, what is pre-diabetic and I was like, what is pre-diabetic and I was like, what is going on? And um and that's when I going on? And um and that's when I going on? And um and that's when I started looking into the literature and started looking into the literature and started looking into the literature and happened to be around the same time when happened to be around the same time when happened to be around the same time when I was then starting up my at the time I I was then starting up my at the time I I was then starting up my at the time I was doing spin classes and then it was was doing spin classes and then it was was doing spin classes and then it was very clear to me it was like I do these very clear to me it was like I do these very clear to me it was like I do these high intensity interval training classes high intensity interval training classes high intensity interval training classes even just twice a week and it was like even just twice a week and it was like even just twice a week and it was like almost completely negating what I had almost completely negating what I had almost completely negating what I had seen previously of my my glucose being seen previously of my my glucose being seen previously of my my glucose being my fasting glucose being really high and my fasting glucose being really high and my fasting glucose being really high and also my postprandial glucose being also my postprandial glucose being also my postprandial glucose being higher than than usual. And so um I higher than than usual. And so um I higher than than usual. And so um I looked into the studies and there's now looked into the studies and there's now looked into the studies and there's now you can you can find many studies out you can you can find many studies out you can you can find many studies out there and it really I mean obviously there and it really I mean obviously there and it really I mean obviously exercise is one of the best thing you exercise is one of the best thing you exercise is one of the best thing you can do to improve insulin sensitivity can do to improve insulin sensitivity can do to improve insulin sensitivity and to also bring glucose into your and to also bring glucose into your and to also bring glucose into your cells right and so that's part of what cells right and so that's part of what cells right and so that's part of what you were talking about with oh you're you were talking about with oh you're you were talking about with oh you're more insulin sensitive during the more insulin sensitive during the more insulin sensitive during the morning at least during the evening and morning at least during the evening and morning at least during the evening and I also mentioned that but guess what I also mentioned that but guess what I also mentioned that but guess what there's levers you can pull that like there's levers you can pull that like there's levers you can pull that like change the equation and exercise is a change the equation and exercise is a change the equation and exercise is a big one right if you're if you're big one right if you're if you're big one right if you're if you're exercising you're becoming more insulin exercising you're becoming more insulin exercising you're becoming more insulin sensitive you're increasing more glucose sensitive you're increasing more glucose sensitive you're increasing more glucose transporters on your muscle that's transporters on your muscle that's transporters on your muscle that's causing glucose to go in easier, right? causing glucose to go in easier, right? causing glucose to go in easier, right? There's so there's lots of ways around There's so there's lots of ways around There's so there's lots of ways around some of these rules that we hear about. some of these rules that we hear about. some of these rules that we hear about. >> But with the with the sleep loss, it >> But with the with the sleep loss, it >> But with the with the sleep loss, it really is it's it's interesting because really is it's it's interesting because really is it's it's interesting because people like when they don't get sleep, people like when they don't get sleep, people like when they don't get sleep, the last thing they want to do is work the last thing they want to do is work the last thing they want to do is work out. And obviously like you don't want out. And obviously like you don't want out. And obviously like you don't want to do like the hardest thing, especially to do like the hardest thing, especially to do like the hardest thing, especially if you're really like sleep deprived a if you're really like sleep deprived a if you're really like sleep deprived a lot. But it really does help negate the lot. But it really does help negate the lot. But it really does help negate the inflammation and the insulin inflammation and the insulin inflammation and the insulin insensitivity that can happen after even insensitivity that can happen after even insensitivity that can happen after even just a single night of sleep. And just a single night of sleep. And just a single night of sleep. And there's studies out there showing that. there's studies out there showing that. there's studies out there showing that. And then there's also these longitudinal And then there's also these longitudinal And then there's also these longitudinal studies that have been done looking at, studies that have been done looking at, studies that have been done looking at, you know, people. So obviously poor you know, people. So obviously poor you know, people. So obviously poor sleep is a problem, you know, in the sleep is a problem, you know, in the sleep is a problem, you know, in the United States. I mean, a lot of people United States. I mean, a lot of people United States. I mean, a lot of people are are sleeping fewer than seven hours are are sleeping fewer than seven hours are are sleeping fewer than seven hours a night. And um but there's studies out a night. And um but there's studies out a night. And um but there's studies out there that have looked at people that there that have looked at people that there that have looked at people that sleep either shorter, so fewer than sleep either shorter, so fewer than sleep either shorter, so fewer than seven hours a night, or they're sleeping seven hours a night, or they're sleeping seven hours a night, or they're sleeping more than 10, right? So you don't want more than 10, right? So you don't want more than 10, right? So you don't want to be on either end of the spectrum. And to be on either end of the spectrum. And to be on either end of the spectrum. And usually like sleeping long, there's like usually like sleeping long, there's like usually like sleeping long, there's like other disease states associated with it, other disease states associated with it, other disease states associated with it, right? But um so people that are right? But um so people that are right? But um so people that are sleeping, you know, not getting enough sleeping, you know, not getting enough sleeping, you know, not getting enough sleep, they have a higher all-c cause sleep, they have a higher all-c cause sleep, they have a higher all-c cause mortality than people that are getting mortality than people that are getting mortality than people that are getting at least 7 to n hours of sleep. And the at least 7 to n hours of sleep. And the at least 7 to n hours of sleep. And the same for like more than 10, they have a same for like more than 10, they have a same for like more than 10, they have a higher all cause mortality than people higher all cause mortality than people higher all cause mortality than people getting between seven and and nine. But getting between seven and and nine. But getting between seven and and nine. But if people exercise, if they're meeting if people exercise, if they're meeting if people exercise, if they're meeting the physical activity guidelines right the physical activity guidelines right the physical activity guidelines right now, which is 75 minutes of vigorous now, which is 75 minutes of vigorous now, which is 75 minutes of vigorous intensity exercise and 150 minutes a intensity exercise and 150 minutes a intensity exercise and 150 minutes a week of moderate intensity exercise, week of moderate intensity exercise, week of moderate intensity exercise, >> right? Well, cuz the guidelines are >> right? Well, cuz the guidelines are >> right? Well, cuz the guidelines are helpful, but they're just guidelines helpful, but they're just guidelines helpful, but they're just guidelines because I mean, doing the sort of because I mean, doing the sort of because I mean, doing the sort of workout that you're doing, working up to workout that you're doing, working up to workout that you're doing, working up to doubles and triples and singles on doubles and triples and singles on doubles and triples and singles on compound lifts and then doing uh cardio, compound lifts and then doing uh cardio, compound lifts and then doing uh cardio, like getting your heart rate elevated like getting your heart rate elevated like getting your heart rate elevated and then doing addition of that and then and then doing addition of that and then and then doing addition of that and then your hiking. I mean, that it's just uh I your hiking. I mean, that it's just uh I your hiking. I mean, that it's just uh I think the guidelines are a good jumping think the guidelines are a good jumping think the guidelines are a good jumping off place for people to think about. off place for people to think about. off place for people to think about. Well, we can talk about that because Well, we can talk about that because Well, we can talk about that because there's a new study that kind of throws there's a new study that kind of throws there's a new study that kind of throws you that on the head, but but the point you that on the head, but but the point you that on the head, but but the point is is that if they if people were is is that if they if people were is is that if they if people were exercising within the guideline range exercising within the guideline range exercising within the guideline range that they basically if they weren't that they basically if they weren't that they basically if they weren't getting enough sleep, if they were getting enough sleep, if they were getting enough sleep, if they were getting fewer than 7 hours of sleep per getting fewer than 7 hours of sleep per getting fewer than 7 hours of sleep per night, that they they basically had the night, that they they basically had the night, that they they basically had the same mortality rate as people that were same mortality rate as people that were same mortality rate as people that were getting enough sleep. So, it's getting enough sleep. So, it's getting enough sleep. So, it's offsetting some of that unhealthy stuff, offsetting some of that unhealthy stuff, offsetting some of that unhealthy stuff, the insulin resistance, you know, the the insulin resistance, you know, the the insulin resistance, you know, the inflammation that we know, you know, can inflammation that we know, you know, can inflammation that we know, you know, can lead to diseases and early mortality. So lead to diseases and early mortality. So lead to diseases and early mortality. So find the time to exercise folks. But of find the time to exercise folks. But of find the time to exercise folks. But of course course course >> periods of time like after a new child >> periods of time like after a new child >> periods of time like after a new child or new job or particularly stressful or new job or particularly stressful or new job or particularly stressful time. time. time. >> I don't know any human being. I don't >> I don't know any human being. I don't >> I don't know any human being. I don't care how driven. care how driven. care how driven. >> Um okay there's probably >> Um okay there's probably >> Um okay there's probably >> Doggins and Cam Haynes being probably >> Doggins and Cam Haynes being probably >> Doggins and Cam Haynes being probably exceptions and a few others you know. Um exceptions and a few others you know. Um exceptions and a few others you know. Um I don't ride out and a few others but I don't ride out and a few others but I don't ride out and a few others but people who everybody h else um seems to people who everybody h else um seems to people who everybody h else um seems to have periods of time where they need to have periods of time where they need to have periods of time where they need to just back off a bit. just back off a bit. just back off a bit. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> I know I certainly do and that I feel >> I know I certainly do and that I feel >> I know I certainly do and that I feel like I'm doing pretty well for myself like I'm doing pretty well for myself like I'm doing pretty well for myself despite you know and and I think that it despite you know and and I think that it despite you know and and I think that it it's important that people not hold it's important that people not hold it's important that people not hold themselves to a standard that is going themselves to a standard that is going themselves to a standard that is going to make them sick or injured or to make them sick or injured or to make them sick or injured or miserable beyond Yeah. You also want to miserable beyond Yeah. You also want to miserable beyond Yeah. You also want to continue to enjoy healthpromoting continue to enjoy healthpromoting continue to enjoy healthpromoting activities. Right. activities. Right. activities. Right. >> Right. I mean, you got to say like >> Right. I mean, you got to say like >> Right. I mean, you got to say like what's your goal? Like your goal is to what's your goal? Like your goal is to what's your goal? Like your goal is to be healthy, to be happy. If you're be healthy, to be happy. If you're be healthy, to be happy. If you're taking it to this extreme where you're taking it to this extreme where you're taking it to this extreme where you're trying to just go to the extreme, like trying to just go to the extreme, like trying to just go to the extreme, like go hard, go home. And it's you're go hard, go home. And it's you're go hard, go home. And it's you're sacrificing your happiness, too. I mean, sacrificing your happiness, too. I mean, sacrificing your happiness, too. I mean, then that's a problem, right? Because then that's a problem, right? Because then that's a problem, right? Because that's part of the equation. Happiness that's part of the equation. Happiness that's part of the equation. Happiness is part of that healthy equation. is part of that healthy equation. is part of that healthy equation. >> Health is a daily and lifelong thing, >> Health is a daily and lifelong thing, >> Health is a daily and lifelong thing, but sometimes it means taking a day off. but sometimes it means taking a day off. but sometimes it means taking a day off. I think that's what people don't say. I think that's what people don't say. I think that's what people don't say. Um, and I think it's in a time when Um, and I think it's in a time when Um, and I think it's in a time when perhaps a lot of people aren't perhaps a lot of people aren't perhaps a lot of people aren't exercising enough. So promoting the no exercising enough. So promoting the no exercising enough. So promoting the no days off thing can be helpful. But for days off thing can be helpful. But for days off thing can be helpful. But for those that are already, those that are already, those that are already, you know, forward center of mass, you you know, forward center of mass, you you know, forward center of mass, you know, coming off the accelerator can be know, coming off the accelerator can be know, coming off the accelerator can be really useful. really useful. really useful. >> Well, I also want to just mention >> Well, I also want to just mention >> Well, I also want to just mention because, you know, we talked about my, because, you know, we talked about my, because, you know, we talked about my, you know, I I work out a lot and I I'm you know, I I work out a lot and I I'm you know, I I work out a lot and I I'm sort of addicted to it, but like not sort of addicted to it, but like not sort of addicted to it, but like not everyone has the time everyone has the time everyone has the time >> and motivation to to go spend an hour >> and motivation to to go spend an hour >> and motivation to to go spend an hour block of time working out. And this is block of time working out. And this is block of time working out. And this is where I think the people can sigh a sigh where I think the people can sigh a sigh where I think the people can sigh a sigh of relief because there's now so much of relief because there's now so much of relief because there's now so much emerging data that have been coming out, emerging data that have been coming out, emerging data that have been coming out, you know, over the last decade on these you know, over the last decade on these you know, over the last decade on these short bursts of physical activity that short bursts of physical activity that short bursts of physical activity that add up. They add up and people aren't add up. They add up and people aren't add up. They add up and people aren't really thinking about them, you know, really thinking about them, you know, really thinking about them, you know, counting towards adding up to to their counting towards adding up to to their counting towards adding up to to their uh physical activity, you know, uh physical activity, you know, uh physical activity, you know, requirements for the for the week. And requirements for the for the week. And requirements for the for the week. And so there's these there's a lot of so there's these there's a lot of so there's these there's a lot of studies now. There's on something called studies now. There's on something called studies now. There's on something called um vigorous intermittent lifestyle um vigorous intermittent lifestyle um vigorous intermittent lifestyle physical activity, Vilpa studies. Have physical activity, Vilpa studies. Have physical activity, Vilpa studies. Have you heard of those? you heard of those? you heard of those? >> Are these the exercise snacks? >> Are these the exercise snacks? >> Are these the exercise snacks? >> They're unstructured. They're >> They're unstructured. They're >> They're unstructured. They're unstructured. And not everyone likes the unstructured. And not everyone likes the unstructured. And not everyone likes the word exercise snacks. I mean, I I kind word exercise snacks. I mean, I I kind word exercise snacks. I mean, I I kind of like it, but the unstructured of like it, but the unstructured of like it, but the unstructured exercise. They're they're the they're exercise. They're they're the they're exercise. They're they're the they're the they're the moments in your life the they're the moments in your life the they're the moments in your life where you're taking advantage of where you're taking advantage of where you're taking advantage of everyday situations to get your heart everyday situations to get your heart everyday situations to get your heart rate up, to move. And so that could be rate up, to move. And so that could be rate up, to move. And so that could be I'm playing with my new puppy and I'm I'm playing with my new puppy and I'm I'm playing with my new puppy and I'm sprinting around with my new puppy. I'm, sprinting around with my new puppy. I'm, sprinting around with my new puppy. I'm, you know, chasing my grandkid around. you know, chasing my grandkid around. you know, chasing my grandkid around. I'm playing tag or my child. I'm I'm playing tag or my child. I'm I'm playing tag or my child. I'm sprinting up the stairs to get to my sprinting up the stairs to get to my sprinting up the stairs to get to my office. I'm running to catch the bus. office. I'm running to catch the bus. office. I'm running to catch the bus. I'm moving, right? And so, um, I'm moving, right? And so, um, I'm moving, right? And so, um, researchers, and there have been several researchers, and there have been several researchers, and there have been several studies on this now, researchers use studies on this now, researchers use studies on this now, researchers use accelerometers rather than just relying accelerometers rather than just relying accelerometers rather than just relying on these questionnaires, which are, as on these questionnaires, which are, as on these questionnaires, which are, as you know, you know, extremely you know, you know, extremely you know, you know, extremely unreliable. I mean, it's very hard for unreliable. I mean, it's very hard for unreliable. I mean, it's very hard for people to remember how much exercise you people to remember how much exercise you people to remember how much exercise you sitting here asking me about my sitting here asking me about my sitting here asking me about my exercise. And there's always so much, exercise. And there's always so much, exercise. And there's always so much, you know, that you can be accurate when you know, that you can be accurate when you know, that you can be accurate when you're trying to recall that. So these you're trying to recall that. So these you're trying to recall that. So these accelerometers are are worn on people's accelerometers are are worn on people's accelerometers are are worn on people's wrists and they're and they're measuring wrists and they're and they're measuring wrists and they're and they're measuring like fast movement, the movement, right? like fast movement, the movement, right? like fast movement, the movement, right? And so thousands and thousands, like And so thousands and thousands, like And so thousands and thousands, like hundreds of thousands of participants, hundreds of thousands of participants, hundreds of thousands of participants, there's lots of data now showing that there's lots of data now showing that there's lots of data now showing that people that are doing these like short people that are doing these like short people that are doing these like short bursts at least a minute long, but up to bursts at least a minute long, but up to bursts at least a minute long, but up to three minutes, right? Where they're three minutes, right? Where they're three minutes, right? Where they're getting their they're moving. I'm saying getting their they're moving. I'm saying getting their they're moving. I'm saying they're getting their heart rate, but they're getting their heart rate, but they're getting their heart rate, but they're actually not measuring the heart they're actually not measuring the heart they're actually not measuring the heart rate in these days. moving faster with rate in these days. moving faster with rate in these days. moving faster with intent, right? They're they're jogging intent, right? They're they're jogging intent, right? They're they're jogging or they're um you know, they're not of or they're um you know, they're not of or they're um you know, they're not of course there's the cases where they're course there's the cases where they're course there's the cases where they're actually exercising, but but the short actually exercising, but but the short actually exercising, but but the short bursts of it um they're doing the things bursts of it um they're doing the things bursts of it um they're doing the things that I just mentioned and it's having that I just mentioned and it's having that I just mentioned and it's having outsiz effects on on health outcomes. outsiz effects on on health outcomes. outsiz effects on on health outcomes. So, for example, individuals that do on So, for example, individuals that do on So, for example, individuals that do on the high end, so they're doing, you the high end, so they're doing, you the high end, so they're doing, you know, 3 minutes of this short burst of know, 3 minutes of this short burst of know, 3 minutes of this short burst of an unstructured type of exercise snack an unstructured type of exercise snack an unstructured type of exercise snack and they do it three times a day. So and they do it three times a day. So and they do it three times a day. So it's a total of 9 minutes a day. Okay, it's a total of 9 minutes a day. Okay, it's a total of 9 minutes a day. Okay, this type of activity and it's this type of activity and it's this type of activity and it's considered more vigorous because you're considered more vigorous because you're considered more vigorous because you're the intent to move, right? That's more the intent to move, right? That's more the intent to move, right? That's more vigorous even though they're not vigorous even though they're not vigorous even though they're not measuring heart rate. That's associated measuring heart rate. That's associated measuring heart rate. That's associated with a 40% reduction in all-c causeed with a 40% reduction in all-c causeed with a 40% reduction in all-c causeed mortality, 40% reduction in cancer mortality, 40% reduction in cancer mortality, 40% reduction in cancer related mortality, a 50% reduction in related mortality, a 50% reduction in related mortality, a 50% reduction in cardiovascular related mortality. Nine cardiovascular related mortality. Nine cardiovascular related mortality. Nine minutes a day. And this is even in minutes a day. And this is even in minutes a day. And this is even in people that don't identify as people that don't identify as people that don't identify as exercisers. So they're not the kind of exercisers. So they're not the kind of exercisers. So they're not the kind of people like you and I that go and people like you and I that go and people like you and I that go and intentionally set out time to go to the intentionally set out time to go to the intentionally set out time to go to the gym. the people that just they're just gym. the people that just they're just gym. the people that just they're just take they're they're doing those things take they're they're doing those things take they're they're doing those things right they're playing with their right they're playing with their right they're playing with their grandkids or their kids or their puppies grandkids or their kids or their puppies grandkids or their kids or their puppies or whatever and so um these moments they or whatever and so um these moments they or whatever and so um these moments they add up and I'm I'm citing one study but add up and I'm I'm citing one study but add up and I'm I'm citing one study but you know it was a dose dependent effect you know it was a dose dependent effect you know it was a dose dependent effect even doing three minutes a day you know even doing three minutes a day you know even doing three minutes a day you know there's a study in women showing you there's a study in women showing you there's a study in women showing you know three and a half minutes a day I know three and a half minutes a day I know three and a half minutes a day I mean they were having pretty profound mean they were having pretty profound mean they were having pretty profound benefits on all cause mortality and benefits on all cause mortality and benefits on all cause mortality and cancer related mortality as well and cancer related mortality as well and cancer related mortality as well and multiple studies now have shown this I multiple studies now have shown this I multiple studies now have shown this I mean this is like one study after mean this is like one study after mean this is like one study after another after another I mean is is another after another I mean is is another after another I mean is is undeniable that these short moments of undeniable that these short moments of undeniable that these short moments of you you know, getting physically active you you know, getting physically active you you know, getting physically active active do add up and structured exercise active do add up and structured exercise active do add up and structured exercise snacks can be part of that. Like maybe snacks can be part of that. Like maybe snacks can be part of that. Like maybe you don't have a puppy, maybe you don't you don't have a puppy, maybe you don't you don't have a puppy, maybe you don't have a kid yet, maybe you work from home have a kid yet, maybe you work from home have a kid yet, maybe you work from home and you're not taking these, you know, and you're not taking these, you know, and you're not taking these, you know, maybe your situation is different than maybe your situation is different than maybe your situation is different than what I described, but you can take these what I described, but you can take these what I described, but you can take these moments to do exercise snacks and that moments to do exercise snacks and that moments to do exercise snacks and that can be a minute long and it can be like can be a minute long and it can be like can be a minute long and it can be like there was there's studies showing that there was there's studies showing that there was there's studies showing that two two studies and I'll talk about one two two studies and I'll talk about one two two studies and I'll talk about one showing that getting up and doing 10 showing that getting up and doing 10 showing that getting up and doing 10 body weight squats every 45 minutes over body weight squats every 45 minutes over body weight squats every 45 minutes over a 7 and 1 half hour workday a 7 and 1 half hour workday a 7 and 1 half hour workday is better at regulating blood glucose is better at regulating blood glucose is better at regulating blood glucose levels than a 30-inut minute walk, levels than a 30-inut minute walk, levels than a 30-inut minute walk, right? So, you get up and you do 10 body right? So, you get up and you do 10 body right? So, you get up and you do 10 body weight squats. Pretty easy. I mean, it's weight squats. Pretty easy. I mean, it's weight squats. Pretty easy. I mean, it's also very good to break up that also very good to break up that also very good to break up that sedentary time. sedentary time. sedentary time. >> So, being sedentary means like you're >> So, being sedentary means like you're >> So, being sedentary means like you're not moving. That also is an independent not moving. That also is an independent not moving. That also is an independent risk factor. Even if you do exercise for risk factor. Even if you do exercise for risk factor. Even if you do exercise for things like cancer being a big one, things like cancer being a big one, things like cancer being a big one, although I would say if you're doing a although I would say if you're doing a although I would say if you're doing a lot of exercise, you're doing pretty lot of exercise, you're doing pretty lot of exercise, you're doing pretty good. But I just like to mention that as good. But I just like to mention that as good. But I just like to mention that as well. well. well. >> I would say being sedentary is a disease >> I would say being sedentary is a disease >> I would say being sedentary is a disease actually. That's that's something I mean actually. That's that's something I mean actually. That's that's something I mean people aren't thinking about it but people aren't thinking about it but people aren't thinking about it but >> even in the absence of what uh Llay >> even in the absence of what uh Llay >> even in the absence of what uh Llay Norton calls energy toxicity like even Norton calls energy toxicity like even Norton calls energy toxicity like even if somebody is um at maintenance or if somebody is um at maintenance or if somebody is um at maintenance or below maintenance calories if they're below maintenance calories if they're below maintenance calories if they're sedentary that's that's problematic. We sedentary that's that's problematic. We sedentary that's that's problematic. We do have data for one measuring cardio do have data for one measuring cardio do have data for one measuring cardio cardiorespiratory fitness which is a cardiorespiratory fitness which is a cardiorespiratory fitness which is a marker of cardiovascular health being marker of cardiovascular health being marker of cardiovascular health being physically fit right obviously the gold physically fit right obviously the gold physically fit right obviously the gold standard of that would be measuring V2 standard of that would be measuring V2 standard of that would be measuring V2 max your maximum oxygen uptake during max your maximum oxygen uptake during max your maximum oxygen uptake during maximum exercise a lot of studies do not maximum exercise a lot of studies do not maximum exercise a lot of studies do not actually directly measure V2 max you actually directly measure V2 max you actually directly measure V2 max you know maybe sub a submaximal treadmill know maybe sub a submaximal treadmill know maybe sub a submaximal treadmill test or they'll estimate it right test or they'll estimate it right test or they'll estimate it right there's a calculation out there you can there's a calculation out there you can there's a calculation out there you can do kind of what your if you wear like an do kind of what your if you wear like an do kind of what your if you wear like an Apple watch or some sort of fitness Apple watch or some sort of fitness Apple watch or some sort of fitness tracker what they do is which is you tracker what they do is which is you tracker what they do is which is you know it's looking at the distance that know it's looking at the distance that know it's looking at the distance that you run and the amount of time it takes you run and the amount of time it takes you run and the amount of time it takes right so like a 12 minute run would be right so like a 12 minute run would be right so like a 12 minute run would be an example people do that you you run as an example people do that you you run as an example people do that you you run as fast as you can and maintain that pace fast as you can and maintain that pace fast as you can and maintain that pace for 12 minutes you're not going all out for 12 minutes you're not going all out for 12 minutes you're not going all out obviously obviously obviously >> you see how far you can go >> you see how far you can go >> you see how far you can go >> yeah and then and there's a calculation >> yeah and then and there's a calculation >> yeah and then and there's a calculation out there that's done to kind of out there that's done to kind of out there that's done to kind of estimate your V2 max and so some studies estimate your V2 max and so some studies estimate your V2 max and so some studies or a lot of studies are actually doing or a lot of studies are actually doing or a lot of studies are actually doing sort of an estimation of sort of an estimation of sort of an estimation of cardiorespiratory fitness so cardiorespiratory fitness so cardiorespiratory fitness so cardiorespiratory fitness cardiorespiratory fitness cardiorespiratory fitness >> um is really important I think for you >> um is really important I think for you >> um is really important I think for you know marking your health and longevity know marking your health and longevity know marking your health and longevity and you know if you have a low and you know if you have a low and you know if you have a low cardiorary fitness most of the times you cardiorary fitness most of the times you cardiorary fitness most of the times you are not physically active right and are not physically active right and are not physically active right and there are studies showing that if you there are studies showing that if you there are studies showing that if you don't have any you know diagnosible don't have any you know diagnosible don't have any you know diagnosible diseases so you're not insulin resistant diseases so you're not insulin resistant diseases so you're not insulin resistant you don't have cardiovascular disease you don't have cardiovascular disease you don't have cardiovascular disease you don't have cancer all that stuff you don't have cancer all that stuff you don't have cancer all that stuff right you're not right you're not right you're not >> um obese but you have a low >> um obese but you have a low >> um obese but you have a low cardiorespiratory fitness it is as bad cardiorespiratory fitness it is as bad cardiorespiratory fitness it is as bad or worse in terms of your all cause or worse in terms of your all cause or worse in terms of your all cause mortality you're you know predicting mortality you're you know predicting mortality you're you know predicting mortality then having cardiovascular mortality then having cardiovascular mortality then having cardiovascular disease or smoking or having disease or smoking or having disease or smoking or having hypertension or these things that we hypertension or these things that we hypertension or these things that we know that are really bad for health know that are really bad for health know that are really bad for health right so being sedentary as I'm saying right so being sedentary as I'm saying right so being sedentary as I'm saying it's a low cardiorespiratory fitness I it's a low cardiorespiratory fitness I it's a low cardiorespiratory fitness I guess it's not exactly correct it's a guess it's not exactly correct it's a guess it's not exactly correct it's a little bit I'm stretching it a little little bit I'm stretching it a little little bit I'm stretching it a little bit but cardiorespiratory fitness is a bit but cardiorespiratory fitness is a bit but cardiorespiratory fitness is a marker of I would say fitness and so um marker of I would say fitness and so um marker of I would say fitness and so um that's why I think being sedentary is is that's why I think being sedentary is is that's why I think being sedentary is is a disease and people with a low a disease and people with a low a disease and people with a low cardiorespiratory fitness I mean if you cardiorespiratory fitness I mean if you cardiorespiratory fitness I mean if you go anywhere above at, you know, from low go anywhere above at, you know, from low go anywhere above at, you know, from low to like low normal, that's associated to like low normal, that's associated to like low normal, that's associated with a 2-year increase in life with a 2-year increase in life with a 2-year increase in life expectancy. If you go from low to um expectancy. If you go from low to um expectancy. If you go from low to um high normal, you know, that's like high normal, you know, that's like high normal, you know, that's like almost a threeyear increase in life almost a threeyear increase in life almost a threeyear increase in life expectancy. And if you go up to high, expectancy. And if you go up to high, expectancy. And if you go up to high, then you're talking about a 5year then you're talking about a 5year then you're talking about a 5year increase in life expectancy compared to increase in life expectancy compared to increase in life expectancy compared to when you were at low. But again, I'm I'm when you were at low. But again, I'm I'm when you were at low. But again, I'm I'm not talking about V2X. I'm talking about not talking about V2X. I'm talking about not talking about V2X. I'm talking about cardiorespiratory fitness. And it's it's cardiorespiratory fitness. And it's it's cardiorespiratory fitness. And it's it's really important. Here's another reason really important. Here's another reason really important. Here's another reason why I think that it's it's really bad. why I think that it's it's really bad. why I think that it's it's really bad. So these these studies were done. By the So these these studies were done. By the So these these studies were done. By the way, cardiorespiratory fitness is way, cardiorespiratory fitness is way, cardiorespiratory fitness is improved by aerobic exercise in general. improved by aerobic exercise in general. improved by aerobic exercise in general. That's great. And then, you know, if you That's great. And then, you know, if you That's great. And then, you know, if you if you add in highintensity interval if you add in highintensity interval if you add in highintensity interval training in their mix, that also really training in their mix, that also really training in their mix, that also really helps because there are some people that helps because there are some people that helps because there are some people that don't respond necessarily to don't respond necessarily to don't respond necessarily to >> just doing cardio. Yeah. About 40% of >> just doing cardio. Yeah. About 40% of >> just doing cardio. Yeah. About 40% of people don't respond. So, mixing in the people don't respond. So, mixing in the people don't respond. So, mixing in the high intensity is good. If you're high intensity is good. If you're high intensity is good. If you're physically active and doing that, that's physically active and doing that, that's physically active and doing that, that's great. If you're doing these short great. If you're doing these short great. If you're doing these short bursts of physical activity, also good bursts of physical activity, also good bursts of physical activity, also good because it's a little bit of a because it's a little bit of a because it's a little bit of a highintensity, highintensity, highintensity, you know, exercise, right? a m a minute you know, exercise, right? a m a minute you know, exercise, right? a m a minute running around chasing your your running around chasing your your running around chasing your your grandkid or your puppy or your child, grandkid or your puppy or your child, grandkid or your puppy or your child, you know, that's that's that's you know, that's that's that's you know, that's that's that's >> taking the stairs. It's amazing. I was >> taking the stairs. It's amazing. I was >> taking the stairs. It's amazing. I was traveling sprinting up the stairs, traveling sprinting up the stairs, traveling sprinting up the stairs, sprinting up the stairs or if you're sprinting up the stairs or if you're sprinting up the stairs or if you're carrying a lot of luggage in the carrying a lot of luggage in the carrying a lot of luggage in the airport, like going up the stairs or airport, like going up the stairs or airport, like going up the stairs or down the stairs, it's wild when you go down the stairs, it's wild when you go down the stairs, it's wild when you go to the airport. I I like to notice this. to the airport. I I like to notice this. to the airport. I I like to notice this. Um, nobody takes the stairs. Um, nobody takes the stairs. Um, nobody takes the stairs. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Down or up. Like the escalators are >> Down or up. Like the escalators are >> Down or up. Like the escalators are there and I'm always like, "Oh, there's there and I'm always like, "Oh, there's there and I'm always like, "Oh, there's a great opportunity to get some extra a great opportunity to get some extra a great opportunity to get some extra steps and some extra work." But I steps and some extra work." But I steps and some extra work." But I realize that's me. Um, but it's just realize that's me. Um, but it's just realize that's me. Um, but it's just it's striking. Um, and if you're in DC it's striking. Um, and if you're in DC it's striking. Um, and if you're in DC ever, you know, they have these long ever, you know, they have these long ever, you know, they have these long stairwells that go um up from the from stairwells that go um up from the from stairwells that go um up from the from the public transport and that's a the public transport and that's a the public transport and that's a workout, you know, and I'm always like, workout, you know, and I'm always like, workout, you know, and I'm always like, "Oh, free workout." Like, you know, like "Oh, free workout." Like, you know, like "Oh, free workout." Like, you know, like get it in my day. I mean, it sucks to get it in my day. I mean, it sucks to get it in my day. I mean, it sucks to arrive a little bit more sweaty than you arrive a little bit more sweaty than you arrive a little bit more sweaty than you would otherwise, but I just think if would otherwise, but I just think if would otherwise, but I just think if this were an experiment and we were this were an experiment and we were this were an experiment and we were looking at mice and we were videotaping looking at mice and we were videotaping looking at mice and we were videotaping from above, I always think to myself from above, I always think to myself from above, I always think to myself like, which mouse am I going to be? All like, which mouse am I going to be? All like, which mouse am I going to be? All the mice are going up the automatic the mice are going up the automatic the mice are going up the automatic elevator. It makes sense. and then why elevator. It makes sense. and then why elevator. It makes sense. and then why they would want to do that. But these they would want to do that. But these they would want to do that. But these opportunities for exercise are clearly opportunities for exercise are clearly opportunities for exercise are clearly there. I I feel like this is also I I there. I I feel like this is also I I there. I I feel like this is also I I would be remiss if I didn't do a quick would be remiss if I didn't do a quick would be remiss if I didn't do a quick shout out to Steve Magnus. Do you follow shout out to Steve Magnus. Do you follow shout out to Steve Magnus. Do you follow ever see his content? ever see his content? ever see his content? >> I've interacted with him. Yeah, >> I've interacted with him. Yeah, >> I've interacted with him. Yeah, >> I've never met him, but um people should >> I've never met him, but um people should >> I've never met him, but um people should >> on Twitter. I've interacted with him on >> on Twitter. I've interacted with him on >> on Twitter. I've interacted with him on X. X. X. >> Yeah. Uh people should um I think give >> Yeah. Uh people should um I think give >> Yeah. Uh people should um I think give him a follow. He's a very accomplished him a follow. He's a very accomplished him a follow. He's a very accomplished runner uh in his past, a running coach I runner uh in his past, a running coach I runner uh in his past, a running coach I believe as well and um and a scientist believe as well and um and a scientist believe as well and um and a scientist and I think has the best take on sort of and I think has the best take on sort of and I think has the best take on sort of measuring V2 max. It's kind of measuring V2 max. It's kind of measuring V2 max. It's kind of interesting. You know, he has a theory interesting. You know, he has a theory interesting. You know, he has a theory which I think is strongly backed that which I think is strongly backed that which I think is strongly backed that most measures of V2 max are not measures most measures of V2 max are not measures most measures of V2 max are not measures of V2 max at all. But one of the best of V2 max at all. But one of the best of V2 max at all. But one of the best measures of cardiorespiratory fitness is measures of cardiorespiratory fitness is measures of cardiorespiratory fitness is how fast can you run a mile. how fast can you run a mile. how fast can you run a mile. >> And he says people are generally >> And he says people are generally >> And he says people are generally surprised how easy the easy stuff should surprised how easy the easy stuff should surprised how easy the easy stuff should feel and how hard the hard stuff should feel and how hard the hard stuff should feel and how hard the hard stuff should feel. So, I want just want to credit feel. So, I want just want to credit feel. So, I want just want to credit Steve for saying that. So, I try and Steve for saying that. So, I try and Steve for saying that. So, I try and keep that in mind around my cardio and keep that in mind around my cardio and keep that in mind around my cardio and do some high I do less of what you do. I do some high I do less of what you do. I do some high I do less of what you do. I I confess um some high-intensity I confess um some high-intensity I confess um some high-intensity interval train type stuff and then some interval train type stuff and then some interval train type stuff and then some a lot of walks, a lot of hikes. a lot of walks, a lot of hikes. a lot of walks, a lot of hikes. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I haven't formally measured my V2 >> And I haven't formally measured my V2 >> And I haven't formally measured my V2 max in a while. But I think he just max in a while. But I think he just max in a while. But I think he just nails it with that because I think nails it with that because I think nails it with that because I think people think the 30 minute jog on the people think the 30 minute jog on the people think the 30 minute jog on the treadmill where you get sweaty and treadmill where you get sweaty and treadmill where you get sweaty and you're like ah like that's accomplishing you're like ah like that's accomplishing you're like ah like that's accomplishing what you want. Actually, there's a much what you want. Actually, there's a much what you want. Actually, there's a much easier path to better health, which is easier path to better health, which is easier path to better health, which is what you do and more or less what Steve what you do and more or less what Steve what you do and more or less what Steve is describing as well. Yeah. Does that is describing as well. Yeah. Does that is describing as well. Yeah. Does that square with your your experience? square with your your experience? square with your your experience? >> Yeah, I think so. I mean, I do I do mix >> Yeah, I think so. I mean, I do I do mix >> Yeah, I think so. I mean, I do I do mix in quite a bit of probably more more in quite a bit of probably more more in quite a bit of probably more more high-intensity interval training, but um high-intensity interval training, but um high-intensity interval training, but um you know, I don't feel like if I felt you know, I don't feel like if I felt you know, I don't feel like if I felt like it was like if I didn't feel good, like it was like if I didn't feel good, like it was like if I didn't feel good, I would I would toggle down the the I would I would toggle down the the I would I would toggle down the the pedal, right? I wouldn't keep keep going pedal, right? I wouldn't keep keep going pedal, right? I wouldn't keep keep going on it. So, I think you have to again on it. So, I think you have to again on it. So, I think you have to again just listen to your body. just listen to your body. just listen to your body. >> You know, you don't want to overdo >> You know, you don't want to overdo >> You know, you don't want to overdo things. And I am I mean there are people things. And I am I mean there are people things. And I am I mean there are people out there that are really like endurance out there that are really like endurance out there that are really like endurance athletes that are you know like that's athletes that are you know like that's athletes that are you know like that's not me. I'm a committed exerciser. I'm not me. I'm a committed exerciser. I'm not me. I'm a committed exerciser. I'm not I'm not necessarily an athlete. Um not I'm not necessarily an athlete. Um not I'm not necessarily an athlete. Um but but yeah, so that would that's but but yeah, so that would that's but but yeah, so that would that's there's different I think levels here there's different I think levels here there's different I think levels here and Steve is obviously athlete. and Steve is obviously athlete. and Steve is obviously athlete. >> Anyway, I've I've learned from him >> Anyway, I've I've learned from him >> Anyway, I've I've learned from him around this topic. It's been it's been around this topic. It's been it's been around this topic. It's been it's been helpful. helpful. helpful. >> I'd like to take a quick break and >> I'd like to take a quick break and >> I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, acknowledge one of our sponsors, acknowledge one of our sponsors, Function. Last year, I became a Function Function. Last year, I became a Function Function. 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Again, that's functionhealth.com/huberman functionhealth.com/huberman functionhealth.com/huberman to get early access to Function. I want to get early access to Function. I want to get early access to Function. I want to ask you about creatine. Yeah. to ask you about creatine. Yeah. to ask you about creatine. Yeah. >> I'm 50. I started taking weight training >> I'm 50. I started taking weight training >> I'm 50. I started taking weight training and running when I was like 16 maybe. and running when I was like 16 maybe. and running when I was like 16 maybe. Yeah. And I started taking creatine cuz Yeah. And I started taking creatine cuz Yeah. And I started taking creatine cuz back then I was skinny. I wanted to put back then I was skinny. I wanted to put back then I was skinny. I wanted to put on muscle. I think creatine was sort of on muscle. I think creatine was sort of on muscle. I think creatine was sort of first discussed or released back then first discussed or released back then first discussed or released back then when I was maybe 18 or something like when I was maybe 18 or something like when I was maybe 18 or something like that. Something like that. 18 19. Um so that. Something like that. 18 19. Um so that. Something like that. 18 19. Um so I've been taking a long long time. I've been taking a long long time. I've been taking a long long time. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> 5 to 10 grams. But the original >> 5 to 10 grams. But the original >> 5 to 10 grams. But the original protocol, which nobody does anymore, but protocol, which nobody does anymore, but protocol, which nobody does anymore, but I confess I still do it cuz I enjoy it, I confess I still do it cuz I enjoy it, I confess I still do it cuz I enjoy it, was to take 5 g 3 to five times per day. was to take 5 g 3 to five times per day. was to take 5 g 3 to five times per day. There was this loading phase and you There was this loading phase and you There was this loading phase and you would mix it with a little bit of grape would mix it with a little bit of grape would mix it with a little bit of grape juice cuz the idea was you were supposed juice cuz the idea was you were supposed juice cuz the idea was you were supposed to spike your insulin and then you get to spike your insulin and then you get to spike your insulin and then you get more into the muscles and then you had a more into the muscles and then you had a more into the muscles and then you had a maintenance dose which was five grams maintenance dose which was five grams maintenance dose which was five grams per day. Um, and the idea back then was per day. Um, and the idea back then was per day. Um, and the idea back then was that you need to do a wash out every 20 that you need to do a wash out every 20 that you need to do a wash out every 20 weeks or so where you just stop taking weeks or so where you just stop taking weeks or so where you just stop taking it, you urinate out a bunch of water, it, you urinate out a bunch of water, it, you urinate out a bunch of water, and then you re reload. And I confess, and then you re reload. And I confess, and then you re reload. And I confess, I've continued to do this minus the I've continued to do this minus the I've continued to do this minus the grape juice, but occasionally I'll do grape juice, but occasionally I'll do grape juice, but occasionally I'll do the grape juice thing. I don't think the grape juice thing. I don't think the grape juice thing. I don't think there's any real merit to the loading there's any real merit to the loading there's any real merit to the loading phase, maintenance phase idea. But back phase, maintenance phase idea. But back phase, maintenance phase idea. But back then and still now, I feel like creatine then and still now, I feel like creatine then and still now, I feel like creatine has made me feel great, um, stronger. has made me feel great, um, stronger. has made me feel great, um, stronger. Um, I did I wasn't aware of the Um, I did I wasn't aware of the Um, I did I wasn't aware of the cognitive benefits. They weren't being cognitive benefits. They weren't being cognitive benefits. They weren't being studied back then. studied back then. studied back then. >> They weren't being studied back then. >> They weren't being studied back then. >> They weren't being studied back then. But what are your thoughts on why But what are your thoughts on why But what are your thoughts on why creatine suddenly has become this like creatine suddenly has become this like creatine suddenly has become this like banner supplements? It's like supplement banner supplements? It's like supplement banner supplements? It's like supplement of the year. We should start a of the year. We should start a of the year. We should start a supplement of the year thing, right? For supplement of the year thing, right? For supplement of the year thing, right? For a while, I think vitamin D and melatonin a while, I think vitamin D and melatonin a while, I think vitamin D and melatonin came first. Um, we'll have to figure out came first. Um, we'll have to figure out came first. Um, we'll have to figure out what years those were. Then, uh, I feel what years those were. Then, uh, I feel what years those were. Then, uh, I feel like creatine got supplement of the year like creatine got supplement of the year like creatine got supplement of the year for 2026, unless something else comes for 2026, unless something else comes for 2026, unless something else comes along. So creatine supplement of the along. So creatine supplement of the along. So creatine supplement of the year 2026 even though it's been around year 2026 even though it's been around year 2026 even though it's been around for a long long time. What do you think for a long long time. What do you think for a long long time. What do you think happened? happened? happened? >> Well, so first I want to talk about your >> Well, so first I want to talk about your >> Well, so first I want to talk about your loading phase and I like that was really loading phase and I like that was really loading phase and I like that was really for the studies that were being done, for the studies that were being done, for the studies that were being done, right? Because if you're taking five right? Because if you're taking five right? Because if you're taking five grams a day of creatine, it takes about grams a day of creatine, it takes about grams a day of creatine, it takes about three to four weeks for your c for your three to four weeks for your c for your three to four weeks for your c for your muscle creatine stores to become muscle creatine stores to become muscle creatine stores to become saturated and researchers aren't going saturated and researchers aren't going saturated and researchers aren't going to do a study where they wait that long. to do a study where they wait that long. to do a study where they wait that long. So the loading phase really was just So the loading phase really was just So the loading phase really was just >> So that's what inspired it. Yeah, it was >> So that's what inspired it. Yeah, it was >> So that's what inspired it. Yeah, it was it's in this isolated bubble of in the it's in this isolated bubble of in the it's in this isolated bubble of in the experimental protocol, but like in the experimental protocol, but like in the experimental protocol, but like in the real world, you have three weeks or if real world, you have three weeks or if real world, you have three weeks or if you're like an athlete and you hadn't, you're like an athlete and you hadn't, you're like an athlete and you hadn't, you know, taken the creatine, you don't you know, taken the creatine, you don't you know, taken the creatine, you don't have your creatine stores up and you have your creatine stores up and you have your creatine stores up and you have to quickly rapidly have to quickly rapidly have to quickly rapidly >> Got it. I was just amazed at how quickly >> Got it. I was just amazed at how quickly >> Got it. I was just amazed at how quickly it worked. I I I might be a it worked. I I I might be a it worked. I I I might be a hyperresponder, but I legitimately put hyperresponder, but I legitimately put hyperresponder, but I legitimately put on I realized some of it was water or on I realized some of it was water or on I realized some of it was water or most of it was water, but somewhere most of it was water, but somewhere most of it was water, but somewhere between probably 4 and 8 lbs of of water between probably 4 and 8 lbs of of water between probably 4 and 8 lbs of of water in the muscle mass. I don't want to call in the muscle mass. I don't want to call in the muscle mass. I don't want to call it lean mass because it's, you know, it lean mass because it's, you know, it lean mass because it's, you know, it's water in the muscle. Um, but I I it's water in the muscle. Um, but I I it's water in the muscle. Um, but I I just was I was like, "Oh my goodness, just was I was like, "Oh my goodness, just was I was like, "Oh my goodness, this is crazy, you know, and um and then this is crazy, you know, and um and then this is crazy, you know, and um and then people thought maybe it was a steroid, people thought maybe it was a steroid, people thought maybe it was a steroid, it's not a steroid, maybe it's bad for it's not a steroid, maybe it's bad for it's not a steroid, maybe it's bad for your kidneys." Turns out it's safe for your kidneys." Turns out it's safe for your kidneys." Turns out it's safe for your kidneys. And most everyone um your kidneys. And most everyone um your kidneys. And most everyone um pretty remarkable molecule. pretty remarkable molecule. pretty remarkable molecule. >> Yeah. I mean, obviously creatine is >> Yeah. I mean, obviously creatine is >> Yeah. I mean, obviously creatine is stored as creatine phosphate in our in stored as creatine phosphate in our in stored as creatine phosphate in our in our cells. We make to some degree our cells. We make to some degree our cells. We make to some degree between 1 to three grams of creatine a between 1 to three grams of creatine a between 1 to three grams of creatine a day. Our liver, our brain also makes it. day. Our liver, our brain also makes it. day. Our liver, our brain also makes it. It's used to make energy and so your It's used to make energy and so your It's used to make energy and so your muscles, if you're working out, you're muscles, if you're working out, you're muscles, if you're working out, you're really consuming a lot of energy, right? really consuming a lot of energy, right? really consuming a lot of energy, right? It's very energetically demanding. So It's very energetically demanding. So It's very energetically demanding. So having the creatine stores higher in having the creatine stores higher in having the creatine stores higher in your muscle is beneficial because one, your muscle is beneficial because one, your muscle is beneficial because one, you're going to be able to increase your you're going to be able to increase your you're going to be able to increase your training volume, right? So it's not like training volume, right? So it's not like training volume, right? So it's not like creatine is anabolic in the sense that creatine is anabolic in the sense that creatine is anabolic in the sense that protein or amino acids are, right? It's protein or amino acids are, right? It's protein or amino acids are, right? It's not like directly affecting muscle not like directly affecting muscle not like directly affecting muscle protein synthesis. It's just helping you protein synthesis. It's just helping you protein synthesis. It's just helping you train more, getting more reps and you train more, getting more reps and you train more, getting more reps and you know whatever it is training your know whatever it is training your know whatever it is training your training volume is going up and because training volume is going up and because training volume is going up and because your training volume's going up then your training volume's going up then your training volume's going up then you're obviously putting more stress on you're obviously putting more stress on you're obviously putting more stress on your muscles which is going to lead to your muscles which is going to lead to your muscles which is going to lead to increased muscle protein synthesis and increased muscle protein synthesis and increased muscle protein synthesis and you know obviously there's water you know obviously there's water you know obviously there's water probably as well. That said, you know, probably as well. That said, you know, probably as well. That said, you know, you asked me you know what happened. So you asked me you know what happened. So you asked me you know what happened. So I got interested in creatine back in 20 I got interested in creatine back in 20 I got interested in creatine back in 20 when I started basically weight training when I started basically weight training when I started basically weight training and obviously had heard about it and obviously had heard about it and obviously had heard about it forever. ever took it. And um as I forever. ever took it. And um as I forever. ever took it. And um as I started to get into resistance training, started to get into resistance training, started to get into resistance training, I was like, I better start taking this. I was like, I better start taking this. I was like, I better start taking this. This is I'm like in this in this world This is I'm like in this in this world This is I'm like in this in this world now and started doing some research on now and started doing some research on now and started doing some research on taking it. So I was taking the five taking it. So I was taking the five taking it. So I was taking the five grams a day because that's really what grams a day because that's really what grams a day because that's really what most of the studies show creatine most of the studies show creatine most of the studies show creatine monohydrate. That's the most monohydrate. That's the most monohydrate. That's the most wellressearched form of creatine. And I wellressearched form of creatine. And I wellressearched form of creatine. And I was taking five grams a day was taking five grams a day was taking five grams a day >> because I was interested in improving my >> because I was interested in improving my >> because I was interested in improving my my training volume and and getting the my training volume and and getting the my training volume and and getting the the benefits of it, right? Um, and then the benefits of it, right? Um, and then the benefits of it, right? Um, and then I had Darren Cando on the podcast. Uh, I had Darren Cando on the podcast. Uh, I had Darren Cando on the podcast. Uh, that was in 2024, I think it was. And, that was in 2024, I think it was. And, that was in 2024, I think it was. And, um, once I had started getting into the um, once I had started getting into the um, once I had started getting into the creatine research, I the brain stuff creatine research, I the brain stuff creatine research, I the brain stuff started has been coming out over the started has been coming out over the started has been coming out over the past, you know, few years. past, you know, few years. past, you know, few years. >> And that's for me become very >> And that's for me become very >> And that's for me become very interesting. I remember the first time I interesting. I remember the first time I interesting. I remember the first time I heard about it years ago, it was like, heard about it years ago, it was like, heard about it years ago, it was like, oh, it's it's helping improve cognitive oh, it's it's helping improve cognitive oh, it's it's helping improve cognitive function in older older, you know, function in older older, you know, function in older older, you know, people. people. people. >> Yeah. the phosphor creatine system seems >> Yeah. the phosphor creatine system seems >> Yeah. the phosphor creatine system seems to be somewhat um biased towards to be somewhat um biased towards to be somewhat um biased towards fourbrain structures. You know, I mean fourbrain structures. You know, I mean fourbrain structures. You know, I mean obviously it's in lots of brain areas, obviously it's in lots of brain areas, obviously it's in lots of brain areas, but that there might be a heavier but that there might be a heavier but that there might be a heavier reliance on it for reliance on it for reliance on it for >> brain areas that are associated with >> brain areas that are associated with >> brain areas that are associated with strategic planning and you know, working strategic planning and you know, working strategic planning and you know, working memory and Yeah. If you if you were to memory and Yeah. If you if you were to memory and Yeah. If you if you were to sort of just map the the the sort of sort of just map the the the sort of sort of just map the the the sort of density of usage of the phosphocreatine density of usage of the phosphocreatine density of usage of the phosphocreatine system, you'd you'd see a frontal bias system, you'd you'd see a frontal bias system, you'd you'd see a frontal bias for sure. for sure. for sure. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Um well anyways that's kind of >> Yeah. Um well anyways that's kind of >> Yeah. Um well anyways that's kind of where my interest in in you know kind of where my interest in in you know kind of where my interest in in you know kind of diving deeper. Anything that's helping diving deeper. Anything that's helping diving deeper. Anything that's helping the brain is interesting to me as I know the brain is interesting to me as I know the brain is interesting to me as I know to you as well. to you as well. to you as well. >> And um and so I >> And um and so I >> And um and so I >> learned a lot from this podcast I did >> learned a lot from this podcast I did >> learned a lot from this podcast I did with Darren Kando. He you know with Darren Kando. He you know with Darren Kando. He you know researches creatine and collaborates researches creatine and collaborates researches creatine and collaborates with a lot of different researchers that with a lot of different researchers that with a lot of different researchers that are doing you know research on the brain are doing you know research on the brain are doing you know research on the brain and muscle and you know lots the bone. and muscle and you know lots the bone. and muscle and you know lots the bone. Turns out it's beneficial for the bone Turns out it's beneficial for the bone Turns out it's beneficial for the bone as well. But the brain it's interesting. as well. But the brain it's interesting. as well. But the brain it's interesting. We also make creatine in the brain, but We also make creatine in the brain, but We also make creatine in the brain, but um it's not like so it's kind of like um it's not like so it's kind of like um it's not like so it's kind of like the muscle, right? You're not just going the muscle, right? You're not just going the muscle, right? You're not just going to if you take creatine, you don't work to if you take creatine, you don't work to if you take creatine, you don't work out, you're not going to you're not out, you're not going to you're not out, you're not going to you're not going to get any increase in lean mass, going to get any increase in lean mass, going to get any increase in lean mass, right? It's not going to do much of right? It's not going to do much of right? It's not going to do much of anything because you're not putting in anything because you're not putting in anything because you're not putting in the work. I think the same goes with the the work. I think the same goes with the the work. I think the same goes with the brain as well where it's like brain as well where it's like brain as well where it's like researchers started to find out that researchers started to find out that researchers started to find out that well, you can't just take creatine and well, you can't just take creatine and well, you can't just take creatine and it's going to enhance cognitive it's going to enhance cognitive it's going to enhance cognitive function. It's in the background of function. It's in the background of function. It's in the background of stressing the brain, right? you're stressing the brain, right? you're stressing the brain, right? you're stressing your muscles by a workout. stressing your muscles by a workout. stressing your muscles by a workout. Same goes for the brain. It's like in Same goes for the brain. It's like in Same goes for the brain. It's like in these situations of stress, whether these situations of stress, whether these situations of stress, whether that's sleep deprivation, whether it's, that's sleep deprivation, whether it's, that's sleep deprivation, whether it's, you know, a traumatic brain injury. I you know, a traumatic brain injury. I you know, a traumatic brain injury. I mean, I would argue, you know, there's a mean, I would argue, you know, there's a mean, I would argue, you know, there's a lot of psychological stress, depression, lot of psychological stress, depression, lot of psychological stress, depression, constantly using your brain like you and constantly using your brain like you and constantly using your brain like you and I right now in this conversation. We're I right now in this conversation. We're I right now in this conversation. We're we're learning, we're thinking. I mean, we're learning, we're thinking. I mean, we're learning, we're thinking. I mean, it is stressful on the brain, right? So, it is stressful on the brain, right? So, it is stressful on the brain, right? So, I mean, I am obviously speculating here I mean, I am obviously speculating here I mean, I am obviously speculating here and taking taking and extrapolating, and taking taking and extrapolating, and taking taking and extrapolating, right? I'm not saying that there's right? I'm not saying that there's right? I'm not saying that there's studies showing that, but it does seem studies showing that, but it does seem studies showing that, but it does seem as though that that's when creatine as though that that's when creatine as though that that's when creatine seems to shine in the brain. And you seems to shine in the brain. And you seems to shine in the brain. And you might go, well, your brain makes it, and might go, well, your brain makes it, and might go, well, your brain makes it, and it's true. Your brain does make, you it's true. Your brain does make, you it's true. Your brain does make, you know, again, it's I think between 1 to know, again, it's I think between 1 to know, again, it's I think between 1 to three grams or something. I'm not three grams or something. I'm not three grams or something. I'm not exactly sure how much, but it makes its exactly sure how much, but it makes its exactly sure how much, but it makes its own creatine. And it's kind of resistant own creatine. And it's kind of resistant own creatine. And it's kind of resistant to taking up the creatine that you're to taking up the creatine that you're to taking up the creatine that you're supplementing with. um particularly supplementing with. um particularly supplementing with. um particularly because for one the muscle is very because for one the muscle is very because for one the muscle is very greedy. So when you're getting to that 5 greedy. So when you're getting to that 5 greedy. So when you're getting to that 5 g range, muscles are really consuming. g range, muscles are really consuming. g range, muscles are really consuming. If you're working out in particular, If you're working out in particular, If you're working out in particular, right, your muscles are kind of right, your muscles are kind of right, your muscles are kind of consuming that because that's they're consuming that because that's they're consuming that because that's they're very greedy for it, right? Uh and and very greedy for it, right? Uh and and very greedy for it, right? Uh and and there have now been, I think, a handful there have now been, I think, a handful there have now been, I think, a handful of studies showing that when you start of studies showing that when you start of studies showing that when you start to get above that, there was a study out to get above that, there was a study out to get above that, there was a study out of Germany showing this and it's a small of Germany showing this and it's a small of Germany showing this and it's a small study. This needs to be replicated like study. This needs to be replicated like study. This needs to be replicated like this is all new, you know, emerging this is all new, you know, emerging this is all new, you know, emerging data. But that study showed that once data. But that study showed that once data. But that study showed that once you start to get to, you know, 10 grams, you start to get to, you know, 10 grams, you start to get to, you know, 10 grams, then if you look by MRI, you can start then if you look by MRI, you can start then if you look by MRI, you can start to see that creatine levels are to see that creatine levels are to see that creatine levels are increasing in certain brain regions and increasing in certain brain regions and increasing in certain brain regions and perhaps in the brain regions that you perhaps in the brain regions that you perhaps in the brain regions that you were talking about. And they're going were talking about. And they're going were talking about. And they're going higher than than what you would get from higher than than what you would get from higher than than what you would get from just your brain normally making its own just your brain normally making its own just your brain normally making its own creatine. So the 10 grams of creatine a creatine. So the 10 grams of creatine a creatine. So the 10 grams of creatine a day, which is now what my baseline is, day, which is now what my baseline is, day, which is now what my baseline is, is based off of that. But there's is based off of that. But there's is based off of that. But there's studies now showing that um if you are studies now showing that um if you are studies now showing that um if you are in this sort of stressed state, your in this sort of stressed state, your in this sort of stressed state, your brain is stressed like for sleep sleep brain is stressed like for sleep sleep brain is stressed like for sleep sleep deprivation for example, you're sleepd deprivation for example, you're sleepd deprivation for example, you're sleepd deprived for 21 hours and your brain's deprived for 21 hours and your brain's deprived for 21 hours and your brain's not working very good after not sleeping not working very good after not sleeping not working very good after not sleeping for 21 hours, right? I mean that's for 21 hours, right? I mean that's for 21 hours, right? I mean that's obviously when I have a when I travel obviously when I have a when I travel obviously when I have a when I travel internationally, I'd never really sleep internationally, I'd never really sleep internationally, I'd never really sleep good on a an international flight and so good on a an international flight and so good on a an international flight and so I'm like not if you were to come find me I'm like not if you were to come find me I'm like not if you were to come find me after that flight, I'd be like not after that flight, I'd be like not after that flight, I'd be like not working very good. Right. working very good. Right. working very good. Right. >> Cognit you and everybody else, >> Cognit you and everybody else, >> Cognit you and everybody else, >> right? Yeah. Well, some people can sleep >> right? Yeah. Well, some people can sleep >> right? Yeah. Well, some people can sleep great on a plane, but I'm not one of great on a plane, but I'm not one of great on a plane, but I'm not one of those people. So, um, there have now those people. So, um, there have now those people. So, um, there have now been at least one study showing that if been at least one study showing that if been at least one study showing that if you give someone, it's like something you give someone, it's like something you give someone, it's like something like 35 grams per kilogram body weight like 35 grams per kilogram body weight like 35 grams per kilogram body weight of creatine, which comes out to a lot. I of creatine, which comes out to a lot. I of creatine, which comes out to a lot. I mean, it's like 20 25. It depends on mean, it's like 20 25. It depends on mean, it's like 20 25. It depends on your body weight, right? Like 20 25 your body weight, right? Like 20 25 your body weight, right? Like 20 25 grams, perhaps even more. I mean, grams, perhaps even more. I mean, grams, perhaps even more. I mean, >> I mean, I'm 100 kilograms. That's a lot. >> I mean, I'm 100 kilograms. That's a lot. >> I mean, I'm 100 kilograms. That's a lot. So, for me, it's more like 20 25 grams, So, for me, it's more like 20 25 grams, So, for me, it's more like 20 25 grams, right? But if you give individuals that right? But if you give individuals that right? But if you give individuals that high dose in that you know sleep-d high dose in that you know sleep-d high dose in that you know sleep-d deprived state that they're cognitively deprived state that they're cognitively deprived state that they're cognitively not only performing normal but they're not only performing normal but they're not only performing normal but they're performing better than their baseline performing better than their baseline performing better than their baseline and that of course generated a lot of and that of course generated a lot of and that of course generated a lot of interest. There have been studies coming interest. There have been studies coming interest. There have been studies coming out since then showing that okay if you out since then showing that okay if you out since then showing that okay if you give older adults with mild cognitive give older adults with mild cognitive give older adults with mild cognitive impairment perhaps mild you know early impairment perhaps mild you know early impairment perhaps mild you know early stage Alzheimer's disease again 20 grams stage Alzheimer's disease again 20 grams stage Alzheimer's disease again 20 grams you're giving in the 20 gram range of you're giving in the 20 gram range of you're giving in the 20 gram range of creatine it's improving their cognitive creatine it's improving their cognitive creatine it's improving their cognitive function why is that well creatine is function why is that well creatine is function why is that well creatine is important to make energy and when your important to make energy and when your important to make energy and when your brain cells are stressed out right I brain cells are stressed out right I brain cells are stressed out right I mean like energy energetic demand goes mean like energy energetic demand goes mean like energy energetic demand goes up and if you have more creatine it's up and if you have more creatine it's up and if you have more creatine it's going to make things easier there's also going to make things easier there's also going to make things easier there's also some inflammation that's being generated some inflammation that's being generated some inflammation that's being generated in that stress state and it seems as in that stress state and it seems as in that stress state and it seems as though creatine is also having both an though creatine is also having both an though creatine is also having both an indirect and direct effect on indirect and direct effect on indirect and direct effect on inflammatory processes as well. inflammatory processes as well. inflammatory processes as well. >> This is all early early data like like >> This is all early early data like like >> This is all early early data like like more needs to be done but I think more needs to be done but I think more needs to be done but I think there's enough safety data out there now there's enough safety data out there now there's enough safety data out there now where it's like well it's really not where it's like well it's really not where it's like well it's really not harmful to take 10 grams a day. I take harmful to take 10 grams a day. I take harmful to take 10 grams a day. I take 10 grams a day every day. 10 grams a day every day. 10 grams a day every day. >> You spread it out. >> You spread it out. >> You spread it out. >> I do it in two doses. I mean some people >> I do it in two doses. I mean some people >> I do it in two doses. I mean some people are very sensitive to a 10 gram dose are very sensitive to a 10 gram dose are very sensitive to a 10 gram dose where they might like get a GI where they might like get a GI where they might like get a GI irritation effect. It can give some irritation effect. It can give some irritation effect. It can give some people um diarrhea. people um diarrhea. people um diarrhea. >> Diarrhea. Exactly. Yeah. So, the very >> Diarrhea. Exactly. Yeah. So, the very >> Diarrhea. Exactly. Yeah. So, the very scientific way of putting it, but I mean scientific way of putting it, but I mean scientific way of putting it, but I mean that. So, I I do spread it out and I that. So, I I do spread it out and I that. So, I I do spread it out and I take it I don't take it at night. I like take it I don't take it at night. I like take it I don't take it at night. I like to take mine in the morning to take mine in the morning to take mine in the morning >> and I don't know, Andrew, this might be >> and I don't know, Andrew, this might be >> and I don't know, Andrew, this might be a placebo. I feel like I'm constantly in a placebo. I feel like I'm constantly in a placebo. I feel like I'm constantly in a stress. I'm constantly in a my brain a stress. I'm constantly in a my brain a stress. I'm constantly in a my brain is under a lot of stress. I'm constantly is under a lot of stress. I'm constantly is under a lot of stress. I'm constantly learning. I'm reading papers and like I learning. I'm reading papers and like I learning. I'm reading papers and like I said, I'm I'm extrapolating here. This said, I'm I'm extrapolating here. This said, I'm I'm extrapolating here. This isn't sleep deprivation. That's isn't sleep deprivation. That's isn't sleep deprivation. That's obviously a much more extreme type of obviously a much more extreme type of obviously a much more extreme type of stress. But I have noticed that taking stress. But I have noticed that taking stress. But I have noticed that taking my 10 grams, going from 5 to 10 really my 10 grams, going from 5 to 10 really my 10 grams, going from 5 to 10 really does seem to affect my brain functioning does seem to affect my brain functioning does seem to affect my brain functioning like later in the day where I seem to like later in the day where I seem to like later in the day where I seem to keep keep keep >> keep going better where I I'm not >> keep going better where I I'm not >> keep going better where I I'm not getting as tired. getting as tired. getting as tired. >> And I could be placebo, which is fine. >> And I could be placebo, which is fine. >> And I could be placebo, which is fine. Like I said, I am fine with placebo Like I said, I am fine with placebo Like I said, I am fine with placebo effects as long as what I'm ingesting is effects as long as what I'm ingesting is effects as long as what I'm ingesting is not actually bad for you. Placebo is not actually bad for you. Placebo is not actually bad for you. Placebo is fine with me. fine with me. fine with me. >> Um, but it is working for me when I >> Um, but it is working for me when I >> Um, but it is working for me when I travel. travel. travel. I do when I'm going to the east coast. I I do when I'm going to the east coast. I I do when I'm going to the east coast. I mean, I'm on the west coast, so when I mean, I'm on the west coast, so when I mean, I'm on the west coast, so when I go anywhere and I have to give a talk go anywhere and I have to give a talk go anywhere and I have to give a talk early in the morning and I never sleep early in the morning and I never sleep early in the morning and I never sleep good in a hotel, I I'm always sleep good in a hotel, I I'm always sleep good in a hotel, I I'm always sleep deprived. I mean, I I don't know that a deprived. I mean, I I don't know that a deprived. I mean, I I don't know that a time that I haven't been traveling and time that I haven't been traveling and time that I haven't been traveling and I'm going to start traveling with my I'm going to start traveling with my I'm going to start traveling with my pillow like you do cuz that's brilliant pillow like you do cuz that's brilliant pillow like you do cuz that's brilliant because that's like one of my that's one because that's like one of my that's one because that's like one of my that's one of my problems, but there's many of my problems, but there's many of my problems, but there's many problems in hotel rooms that lead to me problems in hotel rooms that lead to me problems in hotel rooms that lead to me not sleeping as good, right? So I take not sleeping as good, right? So I take not sleeping as good, right? So I take 20 sometimes 25 grams of creatine in 20 sometimes 25 grams of creatine in 20 sometimes 25 grams of creatine in those situations and there of it's like those situations and there of it's like those situations and there of it's like you know it's not all the time you know it's not all the time you know it's not all the time >> but it seems to help me again and like I >> but it seems to help me again and like I >> but it seems to help me again and like I said I'm okay with placebo which is fine said I'm okay with placebo which is fine said I'm okay with placebo which is fine but we do have some evidence that it but we do have some evidence that it but we do have some evidence that it might and I think this is kind of where might and I think this is kind of where might and I think this is kind of where people are already interested in people are already interested in people are already interested in creatine and so when you start to go creatine and so when you start to go creatine and so when you start to go well maybe it's going to be beneficial well maybe it's going to be beneficial well maybe it's going to be beneficial for the brain if it's going to improve for the brain if it's going to improve for the brain if it's going to improve cognitive function that's really cognitive function that's really cognitive function that's really something that people are interested in something that people are interested in something that people are interested in now again I don't know that it's like if now again I don't know that it's like if now again I don't know that it's like if you're just some young healthy person you're just some young healthy person you're just some young healthy person that gets all their you're getting that gets all their you're getting that gets all their you're getting you're sleeping well, you're exercising, you're sleeping well, you're exercising, you're sleeping well, you're exercising, everything's great, you know, and I'm everything's great, you know, and I'm everything's great, you know, and I'm mostly sleep well and exercise great. mostly sleep well and exercise great. mostly sleep well and exercise great. I'm extrapolating here, but like you I'm extrapolating here, but like you I'm extrapolating here, but like you know Alzheimer's disease on the extreme know Alzheimer's disease on the extreme know Alzheimer's disease on the extreme end, TBI also on the extreme end. That's end, TBI also on the extreme end. That's end, TBI also on the extreme end. That's real-time aging, right? And there's some real-time aging, right? And there's some real-time aging, right? And there's some evidence that may be helpful for that as evidence that may be helpful for that as evidence that may be helpful for that as well. There's been some studies with well. There's been some studies with well. There's been some studies with children looking at creatine children looking at creatine children looking at creatine supplementation after um a TBI and it supplementation after um a TBI and it supplementation after um a TBI and it seems to help with their their recovery. seems to help with their their recovery. seems to help with their their recovery. Um, I am probably experiencing brain Um, I am probably experiencing brain Um, I am probably experiencing brain aging. So, I'm just kind of aging. So, I'm just kind of aging. So, I'm just kind of >> I'm going to interrupt there. I don't >> I'm going to interrupt there. I don't >> I'm going to interrupt there. I don't think so. I'm not trying to just be think so. I'm not trying to just be think so. I'm not trying to just be complimentary. You know, I paid close complimentary. You know, I paid close complimentary. You know, I paid close attention to the data and it seems like attention to the data and it seems like attention to the data and it seems like in certain fields like math and physics, in certain fields like math and physics, in certain fields like math and physics, uh, people tend to, uh, peak with their uh, people tend to, uh, peak with their uh, people tend to, uh, peak with their contributions early. There's a reason contributions early. There's a reason contributions early. There's a reason why the Fields Medal is only given to why the Fields Medal is only given to why the Fields Medal is only given to people, you know, like I think it's 40 people, you know, like I think it's 40 people, you know, like I think it's 40 or younger. My dad's a physicist, so he or younger. My dad's a physicist, so he or younger. My dad's a physicist, so he can, uh, check me on this one. But can, uh, check me on this one. But can, uh, check me on this one. But biologists, at least the ones I know biologists, at least the ones I know biologists, at least the ones I know that took good care of themselves, that took good care of themselves, that took good care of themselves, they're known to make great discoveries, they're known to make great discoveries, they're known to make great discoveries, be cognitively sharp, intellectually be cognitively sharp, intellectually be cognitively sharp, intellectually strong, well into their 70s and 80s. I strong, well into their 70s and 80s. I strong, well into their 70s and 80s. I mean, Torren Weasel, who the mean, Torren Weasel, who the mean, Torren Weasel, who the co-receipient of the Nobel Prize for co-receipient of the Nobel Prize for co-receipient of the Nobel Prize for brain plasticity and vision, he's still brain plasticity and vision, he's still brain plasticity and vision, he's still alive and he he was I think he still alive and he he was I think he still alive and he he was I think he still runs. He's in his late 90s and he paints runs. He's in his late 90s and he paints runs. He's in his late 90s and he paints and he's and he's sharp. So, I just I I and he's and he's sharp. So, I just I I and he's and he's sharp. So, I just I I I made a point to only interrupt here. I made a point to only interrupt here. I made a point to only interrupt here. People can check the the data on the People can check the the data on the People can check the the data on the previous portions of the podcast, but previous portions of the podcast, but previous portions of the podcast, but and just say I actually think that and just say I actually think that and just say I actually think that cognitively cognitively cognitively I'm using biologists as an example. It's I'm using biologists as an example. It's I'm using biologists as an example. It's possible in possible in possible in aspects of life where you're where aspects of life where you're where aspects of life where you're where you're building a base of data to pull you're building a base of data to pull you're building a base of data to pull from, which is what biology really is. from, which is what biology really is. from, which is what biology really is. It's just an example here, that to get It's just an example here, that to get It's just an example here, that to get cognitively stronger and stronger with cognitively stronger and stronger with cognitively stronger and stronger with age, age, age, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> I there's a theory, but I see you as >> I there's a theory, but I see you as >> I there's a theory, but I see you as that. And I'm again, I'm not just saying that. And I'm again, I'm not just saying that. And I'm again, I'm not just saying it to be complimentary, although it is a it to be complimentary, although it is a it to be complimentary, although it is a compliment. I it seems like you're compliment. I it seems like you're compliment. I it seems like you're you're picking up steam. You're thinking you're picking up steam. You're thinking you're picking up steam. You're thinking about things. You're not forgetting about things. You're not forgetting about things. You're not forgetting things from way back when. You're things from way back when. You're things from way back when. You're building on the the concepts and building on the the concepts and building on the the concepts and knowledge from way back when. So I I knowledge from way back when. So I I knowledge from way back when. So I I find it reassuring that you um find it reassuring that you um find it reassuring that you um biologists in particular seem to have biologists in particular seem to have biologists in particular seem to have this, you know, up into the right this, you know, up into the right this, you know, up into the right trajectory for cognition. trajectory for cognition. trajectory for cognition. >> It's interesting. My my late mentor um >> It's interesting. My my late mentor um >> It's interesting. My my late mentor um Dr. Bruce Ames was every bit of that. I Dr. Bruce Ames was every bit of that. I Dr. Bruce Ames was every bit of that. I mean, you know, he passed away a little mean, you know, he passed away a little mean, you know, he passed away a little over a year ago when he's 96, but you over a year ago when he's 96, but you over a year ago when he's 96, but you know, some of his most he claims some of know, some of his most he claims some of know, some of his most he claims some of his best work was done, you know, in his his best work was done, you know, in his his best work was done, you know, in his late 80s, right? You know, late 80s, right? You know, late 80s, right? You know, >> you don't see that in math or physics. >> you don't see that in math or physics. >> you don't see that in math or physics. >> Yeah. So, it's interesting and and you >> Yeah. So, it's interesting and and you >> Yeah. So, it's interesting and and you know, I don't know exactly the know, I don't know exactly the know, I don't know exactly the difference. I mean, I don't know how difference. I mean, I don't know how difference. I mean, I don't know how much much much >> learning goes into math and physic >> learning goes into math and physic >> learning goes into math and physic physics as you're as you're like I I I physics as you're as you're like I I I physics as you're as you're like I I I just don't know. But like with biology just don't know. But like with biology just don't know. But like with biology and I mean we're constantly learning new and I mean we're constantly learning new and I mean we're constantly learning new things and and reading new papers and I things and and reading new papers and I things and and reading new papers and I think even just the novelty of learning think even just the novelty of learning think even just the novelty of learning new things. I mean that's brain derived new things. I mean that's brain derived new things. I mean that's brain derived neurotrophic factor, right? Like that's neurotrophic factor, right? Like that's neurotrophic factor, right? Like that's >> like you're you're you're increasing >> like you're you're you're increasing >> like you're you're you're increasing synaptic connections and neuroplasticity synaptic connections and neuroplasticity synaptic connections and neuroplasticity and you're keeping your brain younger in and you're keeping your brain younger in and you're keeping your brain younger in that way too, right? So that way too, right? So that way too, right? So >> uh I I think the learning process is is >> uh I I think the learning process is is >> uh I I think the learning process is is super important whether it's biology or super important whether it's biology or super important whether it's biology or whatever you're passionate about, right? whatever you're passionate about, right? whatever you're passionate about, right? like you learn new languages what like like you learn new languages what like like you learn new languages what like the learning process itself is something the learning process itself is something the learning process itself is something that is so important for for brain aging that is so important for for brain aging that is so important for for brain aging as well um and yeah so I I I would agree as well um and yeah so I I I would agree as well um and yeah so I I I would agree with you that but brain aging in general with you that but brain aging in general with you that but brain aging in general yeah I'm obviously chronologically aging yeah I'm obviously chronologically aging yeah I'm obviously chronologically aging and there is some degree of aging going and there is some degree of aging going and there is some degree of aging going on in my brain but you know so that's on in my brain but you know so that's on in my brain but you know so that's that's I think where the creatine crazes that's I think where the creatine crazes that's I think where the creatine crazes come from is the interest in and I and come from is the interest in and I and come from is the interest in and I and I've definitely played a role in some of I've definitely played a role in some of I've definitely played a role in some of this you know by this you know by this you know by >> by you know talking talking about my >> by you know talking talking about my >> by you know talking talking about my experience and and and being super experience and and and being super experience and and and being super interested in it because it's like it's interested in it because it's like it's interested in it because it's like it's felt good for me and I've noticed this felt good for me and I've noticed this felt good for me and I've noticed this experience and this is completely experience and this is completely experience and this is completely anecdata again but in addition with the anecdata again but in addition with the anecdata again but in addition with the small studies and they are small and small studies and they are small and small studies and they are small and like I don't know if you've looked at like I don't know if you've looked at like I don't know if you've looked at them but they're they're them but they're they're them but they're they're >> you can subject numbers >> you can subject numbers >> you can subject numbers >> yeah they're small and you can poke >> yeah they're small and you can poke >> yeah they're small and you can poke holes in them and you would be holes in them and you would be holes in them and you would be completely you know okay poking holes completely you know okay poking holes completely you know okay poking holes because it's they're small you know because it's they're small you know because it's they're small you know sample sizes but it is kind of a sample sizes but it is kind of a sample sizes but it is kind of a consistent trend line where we're seeing consistent trend line where we're seeing consistent trend line where we're seeing more studies come out and show the same more studies come out and show the same more studies come out and show the same same thing. And it's like, okay, you same thing. And it's like, okay, you same thing. And it's like, okay, you know, to a certain point, um, maybe know, to a certain point, um, maybe know, to a certain point, um, maybe there's something here. I think that there's something here. I think that there's something here. I think that more research is going to come out on it more research is going to come out on it more research is going to come out on it >> and I feel great doing it. So, I mean, >> and I feel great doing it. So, I mean, >> and I feel great doing it. So, I mean, and even to the point where if I don't and even to the point where if I don't and even to the point where if I don't have my 10 grams and it's only five, have my 10 grams and it's only five, have my 10 grams and it's only five, like I'll notice. like I'll notice. like I'll notice. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. But again, it could be that, >> Yeah. But again, it could be that, >> Yeah. But again, it could be that, >> you know, placebo noibo thing where who >> you know, placebo noibo thing where who >> you know, placebo noibo thing where who knows? Who knows? But, you know, let's knows? Who knows? But, you know, let's knows? Who knows? But, you know, let's just say it is real. You know, for me, I just say it is real. You know, for me, I just say it is real. You know, for me, I gotta have I gotta have my my 10 grams gotta have I gotta have my my 10 grams gotta have I gotta have my my 10 grams of creatine for my brain. Um, you know, of creatine for my brain. Um, you know, of creatine for my brain. Um, you know, who knows? I may in five years be like, who knows? I may in five years be like, who knows? I may in five years be like, I was wrong. We'll see new data come I was wrong. We'll see new data come I was wrong. We'll see new data come out. But I don't think so. I think I out. But I don't think so. I think I out. But I don't think so. I think I think we're going to have I think this think we're going to have I think this think we're going to have I think this is like the next a lot of people doing is like the next a lot of people doing is like the next a lot of people doing creatine research. It's it's the new creatine research. It's it's the new creatine research. It's it's the new thing. They're really because there's thing. They're really because there's thing. They're really because there's been a lot of work on exercise been a lot of work on exercise been a lot of work on exercise physiology and you know, physiology and you know, physiology and you know, >> the safety data are there. So, it's not >> the safety data are there. So, it's not >> the safety data are there. So, it's not like they have to get a lot of, you like they have to get a lot of, you like they have to get a lot of, you know, human subject there. The safety know, human subject there. The safety know, human subject there. The safety data is I mean it's the most wellstied data is I mean it's the most wellstied data is I mean it's the most wellstied you know one of the most wellstudied you know one of the most wellstudied you know one of the most wellstudied supplements out there like you said you supplements out there like you said you supplements out there like you said you were taking it were taking it were taking it >> when you were 18 and it was studied back >> when you were 18 and it was studied back >> when you were 18 and it was studied back then. Yeah. And it's just been studied then. Yeah. And it's just been studied then. Yeah. And it's just been studied the you know for all the years that the you know for all the years that the you know for all the years that you've been taking it. So I mean if it you've been taking it. So I mean if it you've been taking it. So I mean if it was unsafe like we really would know. was unsafe like we really would know. was unsafe like we really would know. And again I don't want to get into all And again I don't want to get into all And again I don't want to get into all the data on the safety but I think that the data on the safety but I think that the data on the safety but I think that it's pretty pretty solid that it's now it's pretty pretty solid that it's now it's pretty pretty solid that it's now of course like if you're going to go of course like if you're going to go of course like if you're going to go like mainline 50 grams a day. I mean I like mainline 50 grams a day. I mean I like mainline 50 grams a day. I mean I don't know that's a little much on the don't know that's a little much on the don't know that's a little much on the internet. There's always Yeah, there's internet. There's always Yeah, there's internet. There's always Yeah, there's always people dry, what do they dry always people dry, what do they dry always people dry, what do they dry scoop? I mean, people have died dry scoop? I mean, people have died dry scoop? I mean, people have died dry scooping energy drinks. I mean, there's scooping energy drinks. I mean, there's scooping energy drinks. I mean, there's always a [ __ ] or two out there that are always a [ __ ] or two out there that are always a [ __ ] or two out there that are going to take things to the extreme and going to take things to the extreme and going to take things to the extreme and harm themselves doing something that no harm themselves doing something that no harm themselves doing something that no one else is dumb enough to do. But I one else is dumb enough to do. But I one else is dumb enough to do. But I think we look at the center of mass for think we look at the center of mass for think we look at the center of mass for things. You know, as we're talking about things. You know, as we're talking about things. You know, as we're talking about creatine, I want to talk about some creatine, I want to talk about some creatine, I want to talk about some other uh supplements. Um but it occurs other uh supplements. Um but it occurs other uh supplements. Um but it occurs to me that to me that to me that if there's some data ideally from animal if there's some data ideally from animal if there's some data ideally from animal studies and humans and something is studies and humans and something is studies and humans and something is safe. I think the question nowadays safe. I think the question nowadays safe. I think the question nowadays because of how broadly health and because of how broadly health and because of how broadly health and supplement and other kinds of supplement and other kinds of supplement and other kinds of information goes in the world. I think information goes in the world. I think information goes in the world. I think the question that everyone should ask the question that everyone should ask the question that everyone should ask themselves is okay do I want to be in themselves is okay do I want to be in themselves is okay do I want to be in the experimental or the control group? the experimental or the control group? the experimental or the control group? >> That's how I think about it. So like if >> That's how I think about it. So like if >> That's how I think about it. So like if if there's a study about creatine um or if there's a study about creatine um or if there's a study about creatine um or or some new molecule I'm going to ask or some new molecule I'm going to ask or some new molecule I'm going to ask you about magnesium in a moment right um you about magnesium in a moment right um you about magnesium in a moment right um I look at the safety margins on I look at the safety margins on I look at the safety margins on magnesium okay that I'm comfortable with magnesium okay that I'm comfortable with magnesium okay that I'm comfortable with those safety margins so that should those safety margins so that should those safety margins so that should always be question number one and then always be question number one and then always be question number one and then it's do I want to be in the experimental it's do I want to be in the experimental it's do I want to be in the experimental or the control group and I think that or the control group and I think that or the control group and I think that these days people are who are against these days people are who are against these days people are who are against supplements or against something they'll supplements or against something they'll supplements or against something they'll say well the effect isn't nearly as big say well the effect isn't nearly as big say well the effect isn't nearly as big as you get from exercise totally as you get from exercise totally as you get from exercise totally absolutely but that's not really what absolutely but that's not really what absolutely but that's not really what we're talking about people love this in we're talking about people love this in we're talking about people love this in the cannabis and alcohol thing whenever the cannabis and alcohol thing whenever the cannabis and alcohol thing whenever I make a point about alcohol or cannabis I make a point about alcohol or cannabis I make a point about alcohol or cannabis they'll say well alcohol is worse like they'll say well alcohol is worse like they'll say well alcohol is worse like yeah I like and you know I mean these yeah I like and you know I mean these yeah I like and you know I mean these are two separate entities so I think are two separate entities so I think are two separate entities so I think that people should just ask themselves that people should just ask themselves that people should just ask themselves are you comfortable with the mar safety are you comfortable with the mar safety are you comfortable with the mar safety margins and do you want to be in the margins and do you want to be in the margins and do you want to be in the experimental or the control group and experimental or the control group and experimental or the control group and then of course there's the do can I then of course there's the do can I then of course there's the do can I afford to be in the experimental group afford to be in the experimental group afford to be in the experimental group if I do something if I do something if I do something >> but that those are really the only >> but that those are really the only >> but that those are really the only questions there's no one's saying that questions there's no one's saying that questions there's no one's saying that that creatine's better than anything that creatine's better than anything that creatine's better than anything else or worse than anything else, right? else or worse than anything else, right? else or worse than anything else, right? >> But somehow the messaging gets all >> But somehow the messaging gets all >> But somehow the messaging gets all messed up and then all these news messed up and then all these news messed up and then all these news articles get generated about what articles get generated about what articles get generated about what creatine is and it isn't. And I find it creatine is and it isn't. And I find it creatine is and it isn't. And I find it like um like um like um kind of frustrating because that's the kind of frustrating because that's the kind of frustrating because that's the the issue is not whether or not creatine the issue is not whether or not creatine the issue is not whether or not creatine is better than exercise and good sleep. is better than exercise and good sleep. is better than exercise and good sleep. Question is do you want to be in the Question is do you want to be in the Question is do you want to be in the experimental or the control group and experimental or the control group and experimental or the control group and can you afford to be in the experimental can you afford to be in the experimental can you afford to be in the experimental group, group, group, >> right? I I like that. I like that >> right? I I like that. I like that >> right? I I like that. I like that framework especially if it's like well framework especially if it's like well framework especially if it's like well we know it's safe. Okay. So, I can we know it's safe. Okay. So, I can we know it's safe. Okay. So, I can potentially be in the experimental group potentially be in the experimental group potentially be in the experimental group because that's question number one. You because that's question number one. You because that's question number one. You have to have that answer first, right? have to have that answer first, right? have to have that answer first, right? >> At least in my book. >> At least in my book. >> At least in my book. >> But yeah, I mean >> But yeah, I mean >> But yeah, I mean >> there's flaws with all sorts of studies >> there's flaws with all sorts of studies >> there's flaws with all sorts of studies and creatine studies included, right? and creatine studies included, right? and creatine studies included, right? And people make all sorts of claims And people make all sorts of claims And people make all sorts of claims about it and you know, you got to tone about it and you know, you got to tone about it and you know, you got to tone it down a little bit. I mean, it's not it down a little bit. I mean, it's not it down a little bit. I mean, it's not like like like >> like the best performance enhancer ever, >> like the best performance enhancer ever, >> like the best performance enhancer ever, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> But it it seems pretty pretty good at >> But it it seems pretty pretty good at >> But it it seems pretty pretty good at you know, improving exercise volume you know, improving exercise volume you know, improving exercise volume recovery as well. I mean, that's like recovery as well. I mean, that's like recovery as well. I mean, that's like also something that's been shown. and also something that's been shown. and also something that's been shown. and then helping with the stressed out then helping with the stressed out then helping with the stressed out brain. brain. brain. >> On the basis of our last conversation >> On the basis of our last conversation >> On the basis of our last conversation some years ago on this podcast, I um some years ago on this podcast, I um some years ago on this podcast, I um started taking Lovaza, which is a as you started taking Lovaza, which is a as you started taking Lovaza, which is a as you know, a prescription omega-3, so very know, a prescription omega-3, so very know, a prescription omega-3, so very high concentration omega-3 cuz I was high concentration omega-3 cuz I was high concentration omega-3 cuz I was getting it from, you know, standard getting it from, you know, standard getting it from, you know, standard sources. And I thought, well, I'm sources. And I thought, well, I'm sources. And I thought, well, I'm hitting 50 and, you know, up my omega-3 hitting 50 and, you know, up my omega-3 hitting 50 and, you know, up my omega-3 and I want clean omega-3. I don't I and I want clean omega-3. I don't I and I want clean omega-3. I don't I don't want it contaminated with mercury don't want it contaminated with mercury don't want it contaminated with mercury and other things. So, I'll take um and other things. So, I'll take um and other things. So, I'll take um omega-3s in the form of Lavaza. It's omega-3s in the form of Lavaza. It's omega-3s in the form of Lavaza. It's available generic form now, so it's available generic form now, so it's available generic form now, so it's pretty inexpensive. And I have to say my pretty inexpensive. And I have to say my pretty inexpensive. And I have to say my my blood profiles were pretty good, but my blood profiles were pretty good, but my blood profiles were pretty good, but they improved pretty dramatically when I they improved pretty dramatically when I they improved pretty dramatically when I started taking Lavaza. So, I'm grateful started taking Lavaza. So, I'm grateful started taking Lavaza. So, I'm grateful to you for encouraging the omega-3 uh to you for encouraging the omega-3 uh to you for encouraging the omega-3 uh you know, take the omega-3 path. you know, take the omega-3 path. you know, take the omega-3 path. >> Have you ever had an omega-3 index test >> Have you ever had an omega-3 index test >> Have you ever had an omega-3 index test done? done? done? >> No. >> No. >> No. >> To measure the >> To measure the >> To measure the >> Oh. Oh. Well, if it's on the function >> Oh. Oh. Well, if it's on the function >> Oh. Oh. Well, if it's on the function test and then it would be then it's in test and then it would be then it's in test and then it would be then it's in normal range. I know it wasn't flagged, normal range. I know it wasn't flagged, normal range. I know it wasn't flagged, but I don't recall what the what the but I don't recall what the what the but I don't recall what the what the level was. level was. level was. >> Yeah. You want to be in the high index, >> Yeah. You want to be in the high index, >> Yeah. You want to be in the high index, not the low. Right. Well, obviously if not the low. Right. Well, obviously if not the low. Right. Well, obviously if you're taking it, you're not going to be you're taking it, you're not going to be you're taking it, you're not going to be in the low. in the low. in the low. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Usually, it's around two grams a day to >> Usually, it's around two grams a day to >> Usually, it's around two grams a day to get you from low to high. get you from low to high. get you from low to high. >> And I I do think that's one of the low >> And I I do think that's one of the low >> And I I do think that's one of the low hanging fruits in terms of like hanging fruits in terms of like hanging fruits in terms of like something powerful and having an something powerful and having an something powerful and having an outsized effect on your health outsized effect on your health outsized effect on your health >> that people can do that's not that much >> that people can do that's not that much >> that people can do that's not that much effort. It's not like exercise and effort. It's not like exercise and effort. It's not like exercise and exercise effort and exercise effort and exercise effort and >> or eating salmon. I don't like fish. >> or eating salmon. I don't like fish. >> or eating salmon. I don't like fish. >> No. Yeah. And and you know, a lot of >> No. Yeah. And and you know, a lot of >> No. Yeah. And and you know, a lot of people don't like fish. And also there's people don't like fish. And also there's people don't like fish. And also there's now microplastic contamination in in our now microplastic contamination in in our now microplastic contamination in in our in our you know seafood sources. There's in our you know seafood sources. There's in our you know seafood sources. There's the heavy metals, PCBs contaminants. I the heavy metals, PCBs contaminants. I the heavy metals, PCBs contaminants. I mean I still eat salmon but like you mean I still eat salmon but like you mean I still eat salmon but like you know it's it's not like it used to be. know it's it's not like it used to be. know it's it's not like it used to be. So there there are other there are other So there there are other there are other So there there are other there are other cleaner ways to get your omega-3 levels cleaner ways to get your omega-3 levels cleaner ways to get your omega-3 levels higher and omega-3 is very important for higher and omega-3 is very important for higher and omega-3 is very important for cardiovasc cardiovasc cardiovasc I would say the most powerful I would say the most powerful I would say the most powerful naturally occurring dietary compounds naturally occurring dietary compounds naturally occurring dietary compounds for suppressing inflammation and for suppressing inflammation and for suppressing inflammation and resolving inflammation would be better resolving inflammation would be better resolving inflammation would be better way of putting it right I mean and way of putting it right I mean and way of putting it right I mean and that's again at the core of aging and if that's again at the core of aging and if that's again at the core of aging and if you look at any sort of measure of aging you look at any sort of measure of aging you look at any sort of measure of aging whether it's even these epigenetic aging whether it's even these epigenetic aging whether it's even these epigenetic aging clocks they're very sensitive to clocks they're very sensitive to clocks they're very sensitive to inflammation and that's why there's So inflammation and that's why there's So inflammation and that's why there's So many studies coming out now showing many studies coming out now showing many studies coming out now showing omega-3 can slow this you know omega-3 can slow this you know omega-3 can slow this you know biological aging as measured by these biological aging as measured by these biological aging as measured by these epigenetic agent clocks and that's and epigenetic agent clocks and that's and epigenetic agent clocks and that's and even in randomized control trials even in randomized control trials even in randomized control trials showing this that it's it's doing that showing this that it's it's doing that showing this that it's it's doing that and that leads to functional outcomes as and that leads to functional outcomes as and that leads to functional outcomes as well. So like even if you're only well. So like even if you're only well. So like even if you're only slowing the clock let's say by 3 months slowing the clock let's say by 3 months slowing the clock let's say by 3 months um you're still having outcomes like um you're still having outcomes like um you're still having outcomes like we're for example three 3 months slowing we're for example three 3 months slowing we're for example three 3 months slowing the epigenetic agent clock by omega-3 the epigenetic agent clock by omega-3 the epigenetic agent clock by omega-3 only is going to get you like you know only is going to get you like you know only is going to get you like you know 16% lower prefrailty or if you add in 16% lower prefrailty or if you add in 16% lower prefrailty or if you add in vitamin D and resistance training vitamin D and resistance training vitamin D and resistance training because the study showed a synergy because the study showed a synergy because the study showed a synergy between the three then you're talking between the three then you're talking between the three then you're talking about like lowering the chance of about like lowering the chance of about like lowering the chance of invasive cancer by 66% even though invasive cancer by 66% even though invasive cancer by 66% even though you're only getting you're only getting you're only getting >> 66 >> 66 >> 66 >> Yeah. Even though you're only >> Yeah. Even though you're only >> Yeah. Even though you're only >> vitamin D resistance training and omega3 >> vitamin D resistance training and omega3 >> vitamin D resistance training and omega3 and omega3. Yeah. And this was this was and omega3. Yeah. And this was this was and omega3. Yeah. And this was this was um the the the trial was actually out of um the the the trial was actually out of um the the the trial was actually out of Switzerland I believed and it looked at Switzerland I believed and it looked at Switzerland I believed and it looked at omega-3 vitamin D alone or resistance omega-3 vitamin D alone or resistance omega-3 vitamin D alone or resistance training alone. And the only thing that training alone. And the only thing that training alone. And the only thing that actually slowed the v the uh aging of actually slowed the v the uh aging of actually slowed the v the uh aging of the clocks was omega-3. Now I'll say the clocks was omega-3. Now I'll say the clocks was omega-3. Now I'll say that with a caveat. Okay, the baseline that with a caveat. Okay, the baseline that with a caveat. Okay, the baseline exercise in this Switzerland group, 88% exercise in this Switzerland group, 88% exercise in this Switzerland group, 88% of these people were physically active, of these people were physically active, of these people were physically active, like doing exercise. So adding, you like doing exercise. So adding, you like doing exercise. So adding, you know, 30 minutes three times a a week of know, 30 minutes three times a a week of know, 30 minutes three times a a week of resistance training on top of that resistance training on top of that resistance training on top of that didn't slow the clock more. And I didn't slow the clock more. And I didn't slow the clock more. And I wouldn't expect it to, to be honest, wouldn't expect it to, to be honest, wouldn't expect it to, to be honest, when you're already physically active when you're already physically active when you're already physically active and that's your baseline. Um, clearly and that's your baseline. Um, clearly and that's your baseline. Um, clearly they weren't eating enough omega-3 they weren't eating enough omega-3 they weren't eating enough omega-3 because that did slow the epigenetic because that did slow the epigenetic because that did slow the epigenetic agent clock. Other studies have shown if agent clock. Other studies have shown if agent clock. Other studies have shown if you're vitamin D deficient, severely you're vitamin D deficient, severely you're vitamin D deficient, severely vitamin D deficient, like vitamin D deficient, like vitamin D deficient, like African-Americans, for example, who are African-Americans, for example, who are African-Americans, for example, who are obese or overweight, if they add in obese or overweight, if they add in obese or overweight, if they add in vitamin D and supplement with 4,000 IUs vitamin D and supplement with 4,000 IUs vitamin D and supplement with 4,000 IUs a day for six um 6 weeks, they can a day for six um 6 weeks, they can a day for six um 6 weeks, they can actually slow their ep reverse their actually slow their ep reverse their actually slow their ep reverse their epigenetic aging as well. So, I think it epigenetic aging as well. So, I think it epigenetic aging as well. So, I think it again, it's all like where you're again, it's all like where you're again, it's all like where you're starting from. But the point is that the starting from. But the point is that the starting from. But the point is that the omega-3 alone did slow the aging of omega-3 alone did slow the aging of omega-3 alone did slow the aging of these clocks. Um, and you add in the these clocks. Um, and you add in the these clocks. Um, and you add in the resistance training and vitamin D, those resistance training and vitamin D, those resistance training and vitamin D, those alone didn't do it. But when you add it alone didn't do it. But when you add it alone didn't do it. But when you add it with the omega-3, there was synergy. So with the omega-3, there was synergy. So with the omega-3, there was synergy. So it kept going down. And when the three it kept going down. And when the three it kept going down. And when the three combined, it slowed the epigenetic aging combined, it slowed the epigenetic aging combined, it slowed the epigenetic aging by like 3.8 months. But that translated by like 3.8 months. But that translated by like 3.8 months. But that translated to like 66% um less likely to get to like 66% um less likely to get to like 66% um less likely to get invasive cancer. Um and then the invasive cancer. Um and then the invasive cancer. Um and then the prefrailty was the omega-3 alone. And prefrailty was the omega-3 alone. And prefrailty was the omega-3 alone. And there was another marker, I can't there was another marker, I can't there was another marker, I can't remember. I covered this in a newsletter remember. I covered this in a newsletter remember. I covered this in a newsletter a while back, but like you know this, a while back, but like you know this, a while back, but like you know this, and this is like this isn't the first and this is like this isn't the first and this is like this isn't the first study to show this with omega-3. Um study to show this with omega-3. Um study to show this with omega-3. Um omega-3s are really I I'm went on this omega-3s are really I I'm went on this omega-3s are really I I'm went on this tangent. I'm sorry, Andrew. You got me tangent. I'm sorry, Andrew. You got me tangent. I'm sorry, Andrew. You got me on one of my favorite topics. on one of my favorite topics. on one of my favorite topics. >> I mean, I'm excited because I take LVZA, >> I mean, I'm excited because I take LVZA, >> I mean, I'm excited because I take LVZA, I take vitamin D, I take vitamin D, I take vitamin D, >> uh, D3. I take a lot. I take 5 to 8,000 >> uh, D3. I take a lot. I take 5 to 8,000 >> uh, D3. I take a lot. I take 5 to 8,000 IUs per day and I get sunlight. People IUs per day and I get sunlight. People IUs per day and I get sunlight. People actually ask me, this is just a quick actually ask me, this is just a quick actually ask me, this is just a quick window into the messaging around window into the messaging around window into the messaging around sunlight. Some people will say, "If I sunlight. Some people will say, "If I sunlight. Some people will say, "If I take vitamin D, do I still need take vitamin D, do I still need take vitamin D, do I still need sunlight?" sunlight?" sunlight?" >> And, you know, a big part of my >> And, you know, a big part of my >> And, you know, a big part of my messaging is trying to tell people messaging is trying to tell people messaging is trying to tell people sunlight does a bunch of other things, sunlight does a bunch of other things, sunlight does a bunch of other things, but I take vitamin D at that level. I but I take vitamin D at that level. I but I take vitamin D at that level. I take the lavaza and of course I have take the lavaza and of course I have take the lavaza and of course I have resistance train and the lvaza move and resistance train and the lvaza move and resistance train and the lvaza move and actually increasing the vitamin D was on actually increasing the vitamin D was on actually increasing the vitamin D was on the basis of yes blood work but also our the basis of yes blood work but also our the basis of yes blood work but also our prior conversation I feel much better. prior conversation I feel much better. prior conversation I feel much better. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, >> much better. >> much better. >> much better. >> I take about 5,000 IUs a day as well. >> I take about 5,000 IUs a day as well. >> I take about 5,000 IUs a day as well. And I do get good sunlight. And I knew I And I do get good sunlight. And I knew I And I do get good sunlight. And I knew I agree with you. Sunlight's important for agree with you. Sunlight's important for agree with you. Sunlight's important for sunlight's not and vitamin D production sunlight's not and vitamin D production sunlight's not and vitamin D production is not the only thing that sunlight is is not the only thing that sunlight is is not the only thing that sunlight is doing. Obviously, you've talked in doing. Obviously, you've talked in doing. Obviously, you've talked in great, you know, depth about that. great, you know, depth about that. great, you know, depth about that. >> I'm going to go into the grave. I >> I'm going to go into the grave. I >> I'm going to go into the grave. I actually want a little window over my actually want a little window over my actually want a little window over my grave. It'll be a little more so I can grave. It'll be a little more so I can grave. It'll be a little more so I can get morning sunlight. I'm just kidding, get morning sunlight. I'm just kidding, get morning sunlight. I'm just kidding, folks. When I'm in the ground, I'm in folks. When I'm in the ground, I'm in folks. When I'm in the ground, I'm in the ground. Um, no, I think the omega-3 the ground. Um, no, I think the omega-3 the ground. Um, no, I think the omega-3 literature uh has been greatly assisted literature uh has been greatly assisted literature uh has been greatly assisted by your messaging around it because it by your messaging around it because it by your messaging around it because it got pretty confusing out there for a got pretty confusing out there for a got pretty confusing out there for a while. There was the the usual push back while. There was the the usual push back while. There was the the usual push back that comes after supplement of the year that comes after supplement of the year that comes after supplement of the year is released. is released. is released. >> It's a joke, folks. Is the oh no, it's >> It's a joke, folks. Is the oh no, it's >> It's a joke, folks. Is the oh no, it's actually bad for us. You know, there's actually bad for us. You know, there's actually bad for us. You know, there's always a few of those and then always a few of those and then always a few of those and then >> we eventually arrive at sanity again and >> we eventually arrive at sanity again and >> we eventually arrive at sanity again and you go, no, the bulk of studies point in you go, no, the bulk of studies point in you go, no, the bulk of studies point in the direction of this being healthy. the direction of this being healthy. the direction of this being healthy. randomized control trial showing it randomized control trial showing it randomized control trial showing it improves cardiovascular health, lowers improves cardiovascular health, lowers improves cardiovascular health, lowers the incidence of, you know, the incidence of, you know, the incidence of, you know, cardiovascular events including heart cardiovascular events including heart cardiovascular events including heart attacks and strokes, right? These are attacks and strokes, right? These are attacks and strokes, right? These are the gold standard. We've got the the gold standard. We've got the the gold standard. We've got the observational data. We have now looking observational data. We have now looking observational data. We have now looking at the molecular events. We look, you at the molecular events. We look, you at the molecular events. We look, you know, epigenetic aging. We know that know, epigenetic aging. We know that know, epigenetic aging. We know that it's really good at resolving it's really good at resolving it's really good at resolving inflammation because you want your inflammation because you want your inflammation because you want your immune system to be active, but you immune system to be active, but you immune system to be active, but you don't want it to be overactive. You want don't want it to be overactive. You want don't want it to be overactive. You want it to be active and then turn off, it to be active and then turn off, it to be active and then turn off, right? And so the omega-3 fatty acids right? And so the omega-3 fatty acids right? And so the omega-3 fatty acids like DHA and EPA which are in Lvesa or like DHA and EPA which are in Lvesa or like DHA and EPA which are in Lvesa or Levaza are what the metab they're when Levaza are what the metab they're when Levaza are what the metab they're when they're metabolized they're forming they're metabolized they're forming they're metabolized they're forming these molecules resolins protectins these molecules resolins protectins these molecules resolins protectins these things are resolving inflammation these things are resolving inflammation these things are resolving inflammation and so I think that um it's just it's and so I think that um it's just it's and so I think that um it's just it's one of the easiest ways that you can you one of the easiest ways that you can you one of the easiest ways that you can you can increase your anti-inflammatory can increase your anti-inflammatory can increase your anti-inflammatory response and exercise obviously being response and exercise obviously being response and exercise obviously being another very powerful one but the another very powerful one but the another very powerful one but the omega-3s it's always easier to take a omega-3s it's always easier to take a omega-3s it's always easier to take a supplement and so like I have my parents supplement and so like I have my parents supplement and so like I have my parents taking it you know anyone that I care taking it you know anyone that I care taking it you know anyone that I care about it's you know, easy, easy, done. about it's you know, easy, easy, done. about it's you know, easy, easy, done. You know, take your two grams a day. I You know, take your two grams a day. I You know, take your two grams a day. I say two grams a day because, you know, say two grams a day because, you know, say two grams a day because, you know, Lvesa is prescribed at four grams a day, Lvesa is prescribed at four grams a day, Lvesa is prescribed at four grams a day, you know, so two grams is pretty on the you know, so two grams is pretty on the you know, so two grams is pretty on the conservative side. And that's really conservative side. And that's really conservative side. And that's really what's been shown by um Dr. Bill Harris what's been shown by um Dr. Bill Harris what's been shown by um Dr. Bill Harris and some of his colleagues that can and some of his colleagues that can and some of his colleagues that can basically you can take someone from a basically you can take someone from a basically you can take someone from a low omega-3 index of 4% up to a high low omega-3 index of 4% up to a high low omega-3 index of 4% up to a high omega-3 index of 8% by supplementing omega-3 index of 8% by supplementing omega-3 index of 8% by supplementing with about 2 grams a day. So, um, and by with about 2 grams a day. So, um, and by with about 2 grams a day. So, um, and by the way, there's all sorts of data on the way, there's all sorts of data on the way, there's all sorts of data on that front with the omega-3 index, and I that front with the omega-3 index, and I that front with the omega-3 index, and I think we talked about this last last think we talked about this last last think we talked about this last last time, but, you know, fiveyear increased time, but, you know, fiveyear increased time, but, you know, fiveyear increased life expectancy if you're on the high life expectancy if you're on the high life expectancy if you're on the high end. Um, you're talking about 90% end. Um, you're talking about 90% end. Um, you're talking about 90% reduction in sudden cardiac death, reduction in sudden cardiac death, reduction in sudden cardiac death, >> brain weight in children if pregnant >> brain weight in children if pregnant >> brain weight in children if pregnant women are taking. Yeah. women are taking. Yeah. women are taking. Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, it's important throughout >> Yeah. I mean, it's important throughout >> Yeah. I mean, it's important throughout the lifespan. It's, you know, from in the lifespan. It's, you know, from in the lifespan. It's, you know, from in uterero development throughout childhood uterero development throughout childhood uterero development throughout childhood all the way through adult life and into all the way through adult life and into all the way through adult life and into old age. You know, these omega-3 fatty old age. You know, these omega-3 fatty old age. You know, these omega-3 fatty acids are acids are acids are I'm talking about the resolving of I'm talking about the resolving of I'm talking about the resolving of inflammation, but they're also very inflammation, but they're also very inflammation, but they're also very important for they are incorporated into important for they are incorporated into important for they are incorporated into our cell membranes, DHA, and to some our cell membranes, DHA, and to some our cell membranes, DHA, and to some degree EPA. And that has a very degree EPA. And that has a very degree EPA. And that has a very important role in the fluidity of our important role in the fluidity of our important role in the fluidity of our our cell membranes. And this is our cell membranes. And this is our cell membranes. And this is important for if you think about our important for if you think about our important for if you think about our endothelial cells lining our our endothelial cells lining our our endothelial cells lining our our vascular system, our arteries, you want vascular system, our arteries, you want vascular system, our arteries, you want them to be fluid and more flexible, them to be fluid and more flexible, them to be fluid and more flexible, right? That's very important for being right? That's very important for being right? That's very important for being able to respond to a stressful able to respond to a stressful able to respond to a stressful situation. In fact, the stiffening of situation. In fact, the stiffening of situation. In fact, the stiffening of our heart with age, you know, the the our heart with age, you know, the the our heart with age, you know, the the the collagen that surrounds our the collagen that surrounds our the collagen that surrounds our paricardium that's surrounding our paricardium that's surrounding our paricardium that's surrounding our heart, our paricardium cardium and our heart, our paricardium cardium and our heart, our paricardium cardium and our myioardium, like that's that's increases myioardium, like that's that's increases myioardium, like that's that's increases the risk of a heart attack, you know, a the risk of a heart attack, you know, a the risk of a heart attack, you know, a cardiovascular event. Um, you want your cardiovascular event. Um, you want your cardiovascular event. Um, you want your cells to be more flexible. So, that's cells to be more flexible. So, that's cells to be more flexible. So, that's what, you know, these omega-3s are also what, you know, these omega-3s are also what, you know, these omega-3s are also doing and that's why they're also really doing and that's why they're also really doing and that's why they're also really important for cardiovascular health in important for cardiovascular health in important for cardiovascular health in addition and in the brain as I mean addition and in the brain as I mean addition and in the brain as I mean these all of our transporters, all of these all of our transporters, all of these all of our transporters, all of our our receptors, right? They're our our receptors, right? They're our our receptors, right? They're embedded in the cell membrane and the embedded in the cell membrane and the embedded in the cell membrane and the the fluidity of that membrane is the fluidity of that membrane is the fluidity of that membrane is important for the structure and function important for the structure and function important for the structure and function of these things. And that's why omega-3 of these things. And that's why omega-3 of these things. And that's why omega-3 affects dopamine, serotonin, right? It's affects dopamine, serotonin, right? It's affects dopamine, serotonin, right? It's why it's affecting you. It's not the why it's affecting you. It's not the why it's affecting you. It's not the only reason. Inflammation is also, but only reason. Inflammation is also, but only reason. Inflammation is also, but part of the reason is is is because it's part of the reason is is is because it's part of the reason is is is because it's it's changing the way our cell is like, it's changing the way our cell is like, it's changing the way our cell is like, you know, structurally composed. And if you know, structurally composed. And if you know, structurally composed. And if you think about trans fats, like that's you think about trans fats, like that's you think about trans fats, like that's they do the opposite, right? They they do the opposite, right? They they do the opposite, right? They stiffen the cell membranes and that's stiffen the cell membranes and that's stiffen the cell membranes and that's why it's like the worst thing you could why it's like the worst thing you could why it's like the worst thing you could do for your card, one of the bad worst do for your card, one of the bad worst do for your card, one of the bad worst things you could do for your things you could do for your things you could do for your cardiovascular health is eat a bunch of cardiovascular health is eat a bunch of cardiovascular health is eat a bunch of trans fats. Smoking is another one. trans fats. Smoking is another one. trans fats. Smoking is another one. Smoking is terrible for your Smoking is terrible for your Smoking is terrible for your cardiovascular health. cardiovascular health. cardiovascular health. >> Do people still eat trans fats? >> Do people still eat trans fats? >> Do people still eat trans fats? >> No. >> No. >> No. >> I feel like trans fats got executed in >> I feel like trans fats got executed in >> I feel like trans fats got executed in when when was it that trans fats got when when was it that trans fats got when when was it that trans fats got executed? executed? executed? >> All became I think it was 2018. I mean >> All became I think it was 2018. I mean >> All became I think it was 2018. I mean some when they're all like some when they're all like some when they're all like >> Yeah. They were sentenced to death. >> Yeah. They were sentenced to death. >> Yeah. They were sentenced to death. Yeah. No, it's the the point is that we Yeah. No, it's the the point is that we Yeah. No, it's the the point is that we all know trans fats are bad for for our all know trans fats are bad for for our all know trans fats are bad for for our heart, but we don't think about why and heart, but we don't think about why and heart, but we don't think about why and they they they stiff I mean the they they they stiff I mean the they they they stiff I mean the researchers doing it know I mean it's researchers doing it know I mean it's researchers doing it know I mean it's stiffen it's stiffening your cell your stiffen it's stiffening your cell your stiffen it's stiffening your cell your endothelial cells. Well, donuts, right? endothelial cells. Well, donuts, right? endothelial cells. Well, donuts, right? As in like if you go get a donut, isn't As in like if you go get a donut, isn't As in like if you go get a donut, isn't a donut half? Probably foods, fried a donut half? Probably foods, fried a donut half? Probably foods, fried foods. foods. foods. >> There's probably some amount of trans >> There's probably some amount of trans >> There's probably some amount of trans fat that's like below the threshold of fat that's like below the threshold of fat that's like below the threshold of being being being >> It's the only bad food I miss. >> It's the only bad food I miss. >> It's the only bad food I miss. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> The late night donut, right? >> The late night donut, right? >> The late night donut, right? >> I had so much margarine as a kid. My mom >> I had so much margarine as a kid. My mom >> I had so much margarine as a kid. My mom used to buy it by the tub. I remember used to buy it by the tub. I remember used to buy it by the tub. I remember like this. She used to go to Costco and like this. She used to go to Costco and like this. She used to go to Costco and get like this big yellow tub of get like this big yellow tub of get like this big yellow tub of margarine. margarine. margarine. Everything was cooked in it. And I mean, Everything was cooked in it. And I mean, Everything was cooked in it. And I mean, it was like on our toast. it was like on our toast. it was like on our toast. This was a battle in my home. Actually, This was a battle in my home. Actually, This was a battle in my home. Actually, I'm going to I'm going to re I'm going I'm going to I'm going to re I'm going I'm going to I'm going to re I'm going to resurrect some some uh family battles to resurrect some some uh family battles to resurrect some some uh family battles of the butter. The butter margarine of the butter. The butter margarine of the butter. The butter margarine battle was a battle. battle was a battle. battle was a battle. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um >> Um >> Um >> butter won. >> butter won. >> butter won. >> Yeah. It doesn't taste the same. >> Yeah. It doesn't taste the same. >> Yeah. It doesn't taste the same. >> But, you know, that was that was the >> But, you know, that was that was the >> But, you know, that was that was the craze. It was the low like the fat was craze. It was the low like the fat was craze. It was the low like the fat was bad and butter was bad and margin was bad and butter was bad and margin was bad and butter was bad and margin was good. It turns out nope, trans fats are good. It turns out nope, trans fats are good. It turns out nope, trans fats are really bad. Um but the point I was really bad. Um but the point I was really bad. Um but the point I was trying to make was to help contrast for trying to make was to help contrast for trying to make was to help contrast for people to understand. Sometimes when I people to understand. Sometimes when I people to understand. Sometimes when I talk self fluidity, people are like talk self fluidity, people are like talk self fluidity, people are like what? No, it's good that people I mean I what? No, it's good that people I mean I what? No, it's good that people I mean I think it's very important that people think it's very important that people think it's very important that people understand some of the cellular and understand some of the cellular and understand some of the cellular and molecular underpinnings of protocols molecular underpinnings of protocols molecular underpinnings of protocols because I strongly believe that because I strongly believe that because I strongly believe that understanding mechanism even just a understanding mechanism even just a understanding mechanism even just a little bit or striving to understand it little bit or striving to understand it little bit or striving to understand it embeds the information for people makes embeds the information for people makes embeds the information for people makes it more likely that they'll do the it more likely that they'll do the it more likely that they'll do the behaviors behaviors behaviors >> and gives them a logic to work from when >> and gives them a logic to work from when >> and gives them a logic to work from when they have to make choices because life they have to make choices because life they have to make choices because life isn't perfect. isn't perfect. isn't perfect. >> Right? >> Right? >> Right? >> That's I know that to be certain. I I >> That's I know that to be certain. I I >> That's I know that to be certain. I I completely agree with you. I it's completely agree with you. I it's completely agree with you. I it's certainly for me, but I that that is certainly for me, but I that that is certainly for me, but I that that is also my hope. I think that if people also my hope. I think that if people also my hope. I think that if people kind of understand somewhat of the why, kind of understand somewhat of the why, kind of understand somewhat of the why, it's it's motivating to try to adopt the it's it's motivating to try to adopt the it's it's motivating to try to adopt the the healthy habit, the healthy habit, the healthy habit, >> but also I think it helps them remember >> but also I think it helps them remember >> but also I think it helps them remember like why it's important, right? like why it's important, right? like why it's important, right? >> It's how the brain learns. It's a it's >> It's how the brain learns. It's a it's >> It's how the brain learns. It's a it's the um the secret is context. The way to the um the secret is context. The way to the um the secret is context. The way to remember something is context. People remember something is context. People remember something is context. People always say it's story. No, it's context. always say it's story. No, it's context. always say it's story. No, it's context. And uh anyway, you and I know that to be And uh anyway, you and I know that to be And uh anyway, you and I know that to be true from our our background. If I may, true from our our background. If I may, true from our our background. If I may, I'd like to ask about magnesium. I'm I'd like to ask about magnesium. I'm I'd like to ask about magnesium. I'm very bullish on magnesium, in very bullish on magnesium, in very bullish on magnesium, in particular, magnesium 3 and 8 before particular, magnesium 3 and 8 before particular, magnesium 3 and 8 before sleep. I for sleep, I take AGZ because I sleep. I for sleep, I take AGZ because I sleep. I for sleep, I take AGZ because I help them build it. It just has a bunch help them build it. It just has a bunch help them build it. It just has a bunch of things like magnesium 3 and8 and of things like magnesium 3 and8 and of things like magnesium 3 and8 and saffron and tart cherry. things that um saffron and tart cherry. things that um saffron and tart cherry. things that um have either been shown or are you know have either been shown or are you know have either been shown or are you know gradually there's amassing gradually there's amassing gradually there's amassing research data to uh other people um research data to uh other people um research data to uh other people um studies out there to support that it can studies out there to support that it can studies out there to support that it can facilitate either transition to sleep or facilitate either transition to sleep or facilitate either transition to sleep or sleep or but magnesium 38ate and sleep or but magnesium 38ate and sleep or but magnesium 38ate and magnesium bis glycinate to me are magnesium bis glycinate to me are magnesium bis glycinate to me are interchangeable uh with respect to sleep interchangeable uh with respect to sleep interchangeable uh with respect to sleep but magnesium 3 and8 I'm aware there are but magnesium 3 and8 I'm aware there are but magnesium 3 and8 I'm aware there are some studies that may be some cognitive some studies that may be some cognitive some studies that may be some cognitive benefits so magnesium obviously could be benefits so magnesium obviously could be benefits so magnesium obviously could be split into a number of things but maybe split into a number of things but maybe split into a number of things but maybe we just start there with three ate we just start there with three ate we just start there with three ate bislycinate. I have a feeling that bislycinate. I have a feeling that bislycinate. I have a feeling that you're aware of some additional you're aware of some additional you're aware of some additional differences between them and I'd like to differences between them and I'd like to differences between them and I'd like to know what you prefer for sleep or for know what you prefer for sleep or for know what you prefer for sleep or for cognitive benefits and then maybe we get cognitive benefits and then maybe we get cognitive benefits and then maybe we get into the other magnesiums. into the other magnesiums. into the other magnesiums. >> Yeah, I think so. If we if we're >> Yeah, I think so. If we if we're >> Yeah, I think so. If we if we're comparing m magnesium bis glycinate or comparing m magnesium bis glycinate or comparing m magnesium bis glycinate or magnesium glycinate depending on how magnesium glycinate depending on how magnesium glycinate depending on how many molecules of glycine are attached many molecules of glycine are attached many molecules of glycine are attached to the magnesium compared to magnesium to the magnesium compared to magnesium to the magnesium compared to magnesium L3N8. Um the the main difference here L3N8. Um the the main difference here L3N8. Um the the main difference here and this is based on very limited amount and this is based on very limited amount and this is based on very limited amount of data. A lot of it animal data with of data. A lot of it animal data with of data. A lot of it animal data with respect to the magnesium 3 and8 is that respect to the magnesium 3 and8 is that respect to the magnesium 3 and8 is that that form of magnesium is supposed to that form of magnesium is supposed to that form of magnesium is supposed to get into and cross the bloodb brain get into and cross the bloodb brain get into and cross the bloodb brain barrier more readily and get into the barrier more readily and get into the barrier more readily and get into the brain better and then in the brain it's brain better and then in the brain it's brain better and then in the brain it's you know helping facilitate you know helping facilitate you know helping facilitate neurotransmission etc right helping neurotransmission etc right helping neurotransmission etc right helping improve cognitive function and so improve cognitive function and so improve cognitive function and so whereas magnesium glycinate or whereas magnesium glycinate or whereas magnesium glycinate or bislycinate you're having the magnesium bislycinate you're having the magnesium bislycinate you're having the magnesium attached to the glycine um glycine also attached to the glycine um glycine also attached to the glycine um glycine also is great to take for sleep so I like to is great to take for sleep so I like to is great to take for sleep so I like to take magnesium bis glycinate or take magnesium bis glycinate or take magnesium bis glycinate or glycinate for sleep glycinate for sleep glycinate for sleep >> and um so that I would say if you're if >> and um so that I would say if you're if >> and um so that I would say if you're if you're interested in more the cognition you're interested in more the cognition you're interested in more the cognition aspect aspect aspect >> well the studies I think you're >> well the studies I think you're >> well the studies I think you're referring to the the guong lu data um referring to the the guong lu data um referring to the the guong lu data um you know show some in mice some you know show some in mice some you know show some in mice some cognitive enhancement or at least some cognitive enhancement or at least some cognitive enhancement or at least some offsetting of cognitive decline those offsetting of cognitive decline those offsetting of cognitive decline those are different but related obviously in are different but related obviously in are different but related obviously in anticipation of today's discussion I was anticipation of today's discussion I was anticipation of today's discussion I was able to find one study seems okay it's able to find one study seems okay it's able to find one study seems okay it's not not a huge sample size showing a um not not a huge sample size showing a um not not a huge sample size showing a um positive reports on sleep quality after positive reports on sleep quality after positive reports on sleep quality after magnesium L3 and8. So the studies are magnesium L3 and8. So the studies are magnesium L3 and8. So the studies are starting to show up starting to show up starting to show up >> starting to show up, >> starting to show up, >> starting to show up, >> but there aren't a lot of studies on >> but there aren't a lot of studies on >> but there aren't a lot of studies on magnesium for specific outcomes in magnesium for specific outcomes in magnesium for specific outcomes in humans. And I think it's because it hits humans. And I think it's because it hits humans. And I think it's because it hits like what 3,000 plus pathways. like what 3,000 plus pathways. like what 3,000 plus pathways. >> There's a lot of pathways. Yeah, it's a >> There's a lot of pathways. Yeah, it's a >> There's a lot of pathways. Yeah, it's a co-actor for many enzymes. co-actor for many enzymes. co-actor for many enzymes. >> So if you're taking um bis glycinate >> So if you're taking um bis glycinate >> So if you're taking um bis glycinate before sleep, um are you taking it a before sleep, um are you taking it a before sleep, um are you taking it a half hour or 60 minutes before sleep? half hour or 60 minutes before sleep? half hour or 60 minutes before sleep? I'm usually taking it I would say like I'm usually taking it I would say like I'm usually taking it I would say like couple hours before before bed. couple hours before before bed. couple hours before before bed. >> You know, sometimes I add a little bit >> You know, sometimes I add a little bit >> You know, sometimes I add a little bit more magnesium in the in the mix. more magnesium in the in the mix. more magnesium in the in the mix. Depends on the day and if I exercise Depends on the day and if I exercise Depends on the day and if I exercise more more more >> because you do sweat out magnesium and >> because you do sweat out magnesium and >> because you do sweat out magnesium and so if you're pretty athletic, your so if you're pretty athletic, your so if you're pretty athletic, your requirements can go up by even as much requirements can go up by even as much requirements can go up by even as much as 20%. as 20%. as 20%. >> U but yeah, the magnesium L3, it's >> U but yeah, the magnesium L3, it's >> U but yeah, the magnesium L3, it's interesting. I very recently got interesting. I very recently got interesting. I very recently got interested in experimenting with it. You interested in experimenting with it. You interested in experimenting with it. You know, there's a little bit of human know, there's a little bit of human know, there's a little bit of human evidence as well that it improves evidence as well that it improves evidence as well that it improves cognition. not not strong but again it's cognition. not not strong but again it's cognition. not not strong but again it's that you know we just don't have a lot that you know we just don't have a lot that you know we just don't have a lot of people researching it and we have the of people researching it and we have the of people researching it and we have the animal data the animal data is a little animal data the animal data is a little animal data the animal data is a little stronger don't have a lot of human data stronger don't have a lot of human data stronger don't have a lot of human data but it seems to signal it might be but it seems to signal it might be but it seems to signal it might be important it might help with cognition important it might help with cognition important it might help with cognition right and so I kind of got interested in right and so I kind of got interested in right and so I kind of got interested in in experimenting with the magnesium in experimenting with the magnesium in experimenting with the magnesium which I haven't which I haven't which I haven't >> us it's it's a new thing for me I've >> us it's it's a new thing for me I've >> us it's it's a new thing for me I've been doing magnesium glycinate for a been doing magnesium glycinate for a been doing magnesium glycinate for a while while while >> I think the study actually looked at the >> I think the study actually looked at the >> I think the study actually looked at the magine I have no financial relationship magine I have no financial relationship magine I have no financial relationship to magine I want to be very clear I just to magine I want to be very clear I just to magine I want to be very clear I just mentioned that cuz that's a common one mentioned that cuz that's a common one mentioned that cuz that's a common one out there and as far as I know I'll out there and as far as I know I'll out there and as far as I know I'll double check but they weren't paid by double check but they weren't paid by double check but they weren't paid by magn but magn but magn but >> I think the mag teen did fund the study >> I think the mag teen did fund the study >> I think the mag teen did fund the study >> oh they did >> oh they did >> oh they did >> so yeah >> so yeah >> so yeah >> okay all right we'll put a link to it >> okay all right we'll put a link to it >> okay all right we'll put a link to it >> doesn't discredit it unless unless >> doesn't discredit it unless unless >> doesn't discredit it unless unless there's some you know bad things going there's some you know bad things going there's some you know bad things going on which I like to think not I mean you on which I like to think not I mean you on which I like to think not I mean you know know know >> it's supposed to be done independently I >> it's supposed to be done independently I >> it's supposed to be done independently I mean when they pay for a group to do I mean when they pay for a group to do I mean when they pay for a group to do I mean by law they're supposed to blind mean by law they're supposed to blind mean by law they're supposed to blind the data and not bias the outcomes one the data and not bias the outcomes one the data and not bias the outcomes one hopes that's what they do hopes that's what they do hopes that's what they do >> yeah and I think for the most part >> yeah and I think for the most part >> yeah and I think for the most part you're for the most part are probably you're for the most part are probably you're for the most part are probably okay, but it is something to consider if okay, but it is something to consider if okay, but it is something to consider if there's a potential COI, right? there's a potential COI, right? there's a potential COI, right? >> Um, but yeah, so I don't know. So that >> Um, but yeah, so I don't know. So that >> Um, but yeah, so I don't know. So that was the first part of your question was was the first part of your question was was the first part of your question was the difference between the difference between the difference between >> the the glycinate and the three and then >> the the glycinate and the three and then >> the the glycinate and the three and then then and then the qu the concern that I then and then the qu the concern that I then and then the qu the concern that I might have which might be something might have which might be something might have which might be something you're not thinking about is okay well I you're not thinking about is okay well I you're not thinking about is okay well I need to f fulfill my magnesium need to f fulfill my magnesium need to f fulfill my magnesium requirements right and so our daily requirements right and so our daily requirements right and so our daily magnesium requirements again based on magnesium requirements again based on magnesium requirements again based on our gender and our physical activity our gender and our physical activity our gender and our physical activity >> it's a range it's a sliding scale so you >> it's a range it's a sliding scale so you >> it's a range it's a sliding scale so you know women 300 350 milligrams a day men know women 300 350 milligrams a day men know women 300 350 milligrams a day men 350 400 milligrams a day really 350 400 milligrams a day really 350 400 milligrams a day really depending on how physically active you depending on how physically active you depending on how physically active you are are are >> and this is just you your daily >> and this is just you your daily >> and this is just you your daily requirements to have enough magnesium to requirements to have enough magnesium to requirements to have enough magnesium to run you know repairing DNA damage to run run you know repairing DNA damage to run run you know repairing DNA damage to run you need magnesium to make energy to you need magnesium to make energy to you need magnesium to make energy to utilize energy you need it for utilize energy you need it for utilize energy you need it for neurotransmission like it's there's so neurotransmission like it's there's so neurotransmission like it's there's so many different you know important many different you know important many different you know important functions in our body that require functions in our body that require functions in our body that require magnesium to work to make vitamin to magnesium to work to make vitamin to magnesium to work to make vitamin to convert vitamin D3 into the active convert vitamin D3 into the active convert vitamin D3 into the active steroid hormone and this this to me is steroid hormone and this this to me is steroid hormone and this this to me is like to some degree vindicating but also like to some degree vindicating but also like to some degree vindicating but also I'm super annoyed by it because you know I'm super annoyed by it because you know I'm super annoyed by it because you know we have all these different um studies we have all these different um studies we have all these different um studies out there on vitamin D supplementation out there on vitamin D supplementation out there on vitamin D supplementation and does it is it important and I mean and does it is it important and I mean and does it is it important and I mean there's so many negative data out there there's so many negative data out there there's so many negative data out there well it doesn't do what we thought it's well it doesn't do what we thought it's well it doesn't do what we thought it's not doing anything u but half half the not doing anything u but half half the not doing anything u but half half the US population doesn't get enough US population doesn't get enough US population doesn't get enough magnesium and so those enzymes that are magnesium and so those enzymes that are magnesium and so those enzymes that are important for converting the D3 that important for converting the D3 that important for converting the D3 that you're taking into the active steroid you're taking into the active steroid you're taking into the active steroid hormone are not working properly um so hormone are not working properly um so hormone are not working properly um so anyways I I'm not going to go on that anyways I I'm not going to go on that anyways I I'm not going to go on that tangent but I'm just saying magnesium is tangent but I'm just saying magnesium is tangent but I'm just saying magnesium is doing a lot of things so um if you are doing a lot of things so um if you are doing a lot of things so um if you are taking the magnesium 3N8 and let's say taking the magnesium 3N8 and let's say taking the magnesium 3N8 and let's say it is getting it's going into the blood it is getting it's going into the blood it is getting it's going into the blood you know more sorry the brain more you know more sorry the brain more you know more sorry the brain more readily then the concern would be well readily then the concern would be well readily then the concern would be well not enough of it is around for you know not enough of it is around for you know not enough of it is around for you know DNA repair and other organs and stuff DNA repair and other organs and stuff DNA repair and other organs and stuff and so you might want to get another and so you might want to get another and so you might want to get another source of magnesium source of magnesium source of magnesium >> it's all theoretical right and like >> it's all theoretical right and like >> it's all theoretical right and like that's not I would there's no data on that's not I would there's no data on that's not I would there's no data on that so just mostly because no one's that so just mostly because no one's that so just mostly because no one's looking at it no one's investigating it looking at it no one's investigating it looking at it no one's investigating it >> there's not a lot of incentive it's >> there's not a lot of incentive it's >> there's not a lot of incentive it's funny when people will always say well funny when people will always say well funny when people will always say well there's no incentive because the drug there's no incentive because the drug there's no incentive because the drug companies can't make a lot of money on companies can't make a lot of money on companies can't make a lot of money on it. And I sometimes that's true, but I it. And I sometimes that's true, but I it. And I sometimes that's true, but I have to chuckle because as scientists I have to chuckle because as scientists I have to chuckle because as scientists I will tell you folks uh and like I wish I will tell you folks uh and like I wish I will tell you folks uh and like I wish I could just like paint this across the could just like paint this across the could just like paint this across the sky, but then I get accused of being sky, but then I get accused of being sky, but then I get accused of being like a chemtrail person or something. Um like a chemtrail person or something. Um like a chemtrail person or something. Um the reason there's no studies on BPC57, the reason there's no studies on BPC57, the reason there's no studies on BPC57, the reason there's no like RCTs on a the reason there's no like RCTs on a the reason there's no like RCTs on a randomized control on different forms of randomized control on different forms of randomized control on different forms of magnesium and large sample sizes because magnesium and large sample sizes because magnesium and large sample sizes because we barely have enough money to fund the we barely have enough money to fund the we barely have enough money to fund the current research. current research. current research. Like I I I'm not trying to get make this Like I I I'm not trying to get make this Like I I I'm not trying to get make this political like we just had a 1% increase political like we just had a 1% increase political like we just had a 1% increase in the NIH budget but like there isn't in the NIH budget but like there isn't in the NIH budget but like there isn't an infinite amount of money to run an infinite amount of money to run an infinite amount of money to run studies and so scientists are if they studies and so scientists are if they studies and so scientists are if they already work on magnesium or or it already work on magnesium or or it already work on magnesium or or it becomes interesting to them because it becomes interesting to them because it becomes interesting to them because it came up in a screen of pathways people came up in a screen of pathways people came up in a screen of pathways people aren't there not a lot of scientists aren't there not a lot of scientists aren't there not a lot of scientists sitting around going oh like maybe I sitting around going oh like maybe I sitting around going oh like maybe I should study compare magnesium malate should study compare magnesium malate should study compare magnesium malate bis glycinate 3 and8 in sleep in 2,000 bis glycinate 3 and8 in sleep in 2,000 bis glycinate 3 and8 in sleep in 2,000 subjects male female like pregnant and subjects male female like pregnant and subjects male female like pregnant and permenopause like No, no, there's no permenopause like No, no, there's no permenopause like No, no, there's no money to do it. Like, so that's where I money to do it. Like, so that's where I money to do it. Like, so that's where I get back to. Is it safe? Do you want to get back to. Is it safe? Do you want to get back to. Is it safe? Do you want to be in the experimental or the control be in the experimental or the control be in the experimental or the control group? Can you afford to be in the group? Can you afford to be in the group? Can you afford to be in the experimental or the control group? experimental or the control group? experimental or the control group? >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> I feel like that's the that's like all >> I feel like that's the that's like all >> I feel like that's the that's like all we've got. And I'm only I'm chuckling we've got. And I'm only I'm chuckling we've got. And I'm only I'm chuckling out of it's a sort of like a laughter of out of it's a sort of like a laughter of out of it's a sort of like a laughter of pain because I get where people are pain because I get where people are pain because I get where people are coming from, but the drug companies are coming from, but the drug companies are coming from, but the drug companies are not like avoiding studying magnesium not like avoiding studying magnesium not like avoiding studying magnesium because there's no money to make. It's because there's no money to make. It's because there's no money to make. It's because I don't know what would that because I don't know what would that because I don't know what would that even look like? What end point? What even look like? What end point? What even look like? What end point? What disease? What? Like, yeah. Anyway, disease? What? Like, yeah. Anyway, disease? What? Like, yeah. Anyway, forgive me for editorializing, but forgive me for editorializing, but forgive me for editorializing, but >> yeah, you're not going to cure, >> yeah, you're not going to cure, >> yeah, you're not going to cure, >> you know, cardiovascular disease or >> you know, cardiovascular disease or >> you know, cardiovascular disease or cancer by taking a magnesium supplement. cancer by taking a magnesium supplement. cancer by taking a magnesium supplement. I mean, the the these these I mean, the the these these I mean, the the these these neutruticals, these vitamins and neutruticals, these vitamins and neutruticals, these vitamins and minerals, they're they're about minerals, they're they're about minerals, they're they're about prevention really and and and giving prevention really and and and giving prevention really and and and giving your body the right nutrients that it your body the right nutrients that it your body the right nutrients that it needs to do and function properly. You needs to do and function properly. You needs to do and function properly. You know, whether that is, you know, getting know, whether that is, you know, getting know, whether that is, you know, getting enough sleep, you know, when you're when enough sleep, you know, when you're when enough sleep, you know, when you're when you're stressed, when your cortisol goes you're stressed, when your cortisol goes you're stressed, when your cortisol goes up, you know, chronically, you're up, you know, chronically, you're up, you know, chronically, you're depleting magnesium. you know, it's it's depleting magnesium. you know, it's it's depleting magnesium. you know, it's it's it's it's very like magnesium is being it's it's very like magnesium is being it's it's very like magnesium is being used to deal with that stress, right? used to deal with that stress, right? used to deal with that stress, right? So, So, So, >> there there's a reason that we need >> there there's a reason that we need >> there there's a reason that we need things like magnesium and, you know, things like magnesium and, you know, things like magnesium and, you know, vitamin D. It's a it gets converted into vitamin D. It's a it gets converted into vitamin D. It's a it gets converted into steroid hormone changing 5% of our, you steroid hormone changing 5% of our, you steroid hormone changing 5% of our, you know, our our genome. So, yeah, it's know, our our genome. So, yeah, it's know, our our genome. So, yeah, it's different. It's not like a different. It's not like a different. It's not like a pharmaceutical where you're you don't pharmaceutical where you're you don't pharmaceutical where you're you don't need this, you know, to function need this, you know, to function need this, you know, to function optimally, but it might. It's it's the optimally, but it might. It's it's the optimally, but it might. It's it's the whole like, okay, I'm sick and now I whole like, okay, I'm sick and now I whole like, okay, I'm sick and now I need this, you know, or I or I'm need this, you know, or I or I'm need this, you know, or I or I'm overweight, right? We got the GLP ones, overweight, right? We got the GLP ones, overweight, right? We got the GLP ones, right? I'm I'm fat. I'm obese. Um, and I right? I'm I'm fat. I'm obese. Um, and I right? I'm I'm fat. I'm obese. Um, and I need to, you know, help fix that. And so need to, you know, help fix that. And so need to, you know, help fix that. And so that's kind of a different paradigm than that's kind of a different paradigm than that's kind of a different paradigm than >> specific endpoint type stuff. >> specific endpoint type stuff. >> specific endpoint type stuff. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah. I think that's super important for >> Yeah. I think that's super important for >> Yeah. I think that's super important for people to hear that. Oh, by the way, I I people to hear that. Oh, by the way, I I people to hear that. Oh, by the way, I I should just say um for your for your should just say um for your for your should just say um for your for your sake um and for the listeners, I divide sake um and for the listeners, I divide sake um and for the listeners, I divide supplements into basically four supplements into basically four supplements into basically four categories like um food replacement like categories like um food replacement like categories like um food replacement like whey protein or a protein bar or you whey protein or a protein bar or you whey protein or a protein bar or you know obvious sort of general support, know obvious sort of general support, know obvious sort of general support, specific effects, and then experimental specific effects, and then experimental specific effects, and then experimental maybe. maybe. maybe. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Um and so I think what we're talking >> Um and so I think what we're talking >> Um and so I think what we're talking about here with magnesium is kind of about here with magnesium is kind of about here with magnesium is kind of combination of maybe helps with sleep. combination of maybe helps with sleep. combination of maybe helps with sleep. Um some specific effects that you're Um some specific effects that you're Um some specific effects that you're aware of like required and you're trying aware of like required and you're trying aware of like required and you're trying to top off. You're trying to make sure to top off. You're trying to make sure to top off. You're trying to make sure that you're covering a deficiency. that you're covering a deficiency. that you're covering a deficiency. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Yes. Trying to make sure you're getting >> Yes. Trying to make sure you're getting >> Yes. Trying to make sure you're getting enough of the magnesium. Exactly. enough of the magnesium. Exactly. enough of the magnesium. Exactly. >> Are there any other things that you take >> Are there any other things that you take >> Are there any other things that you take that are just trying to make sure that that are just trying to make sure that that are just trying to make sure that you're not deficient anywhere? Um or for you're not deficient anywhere? Um or for you're not deficient anywhere? Um or for specific reasons? We've talked about a specific reasons? We've talked about a specific reasons? We've talked about a few along the way here. Glutamine, few along the way here. Glutamine, few along the way here. Glutamine, vitamin D, omega-3s, creatine. vitamin D, omega-3s, creatine. vitamin D, omega-3s, creatine. >> I take a multivitamin and that is to >> I take a multivitamin and that is to >> I take a multivitamin and that is to cover my bases because, you know, cover my bases because, you know, cover my bases because, you know, there's there's a lot of things in a there's there's a lot of things in a there's there's a lot of things in a multivitamin. You have to find obviously multivitamin. You have to find obviously multivitamin. You have to find obviously a good quality one. But a good quality one. But a good quality one. But >> um and >> um and >> um and >> anyone that tells you that multivitamins >> anyone that tells you that multivitamins >> anyone that tells you that multivitamins are useless, they're wrong. I'm going to are useless, they're wrong. I'm going to are useless, they're wrong. I'm going to tell you that they're wrong because I I tell you that they're wrong because I I tell you that they're wrong because I I think now we have think now we have think now we have >> pretty strong data, three very large >> pretty strong data, three very large >> pretty strong data, three very large randomized control trials, part of the randomized control trials, part of the randomized control trials, part of the Cosmos trials. Have you heard of these Cosmos trials. Have you heard of these Cosmos trials. Have you heard of these studies? M and it's really I think studies? M and it's really I think studies? M and it's really I think pretty clear that in these studies older pretty clear that in these studies older pretty clear that in these studies older adults we're talking 65 years and older adults we're talking 65 years and older adults we're talking 65 years and older that are taking a multivitamin that are taking a multivitamin that are taking a multivitamin supplement for you know was it a year I supplement for you know was it a year I supplement for you know was it a year I think it was um it could be two but I think it was um it could be two but I think it was um it could be two but I think it was a year and it was by the think it was a year and it was by the think it was a year and it was by the way Centrum Silver it was like your way Centrum Silver it was like your way Centrum Silver it was like your standard you know anyone could afford to standard you know anyone could afford to standard you know anyone could afford to get it get it at Walmart type of vitamin get it get it at Walmart type of vitamin get it get it at Walmart type of vitamin um and after a year of taking this um and after a year of taking this um and after a year of taking this multivitamin it globally reduced brain multivitamin it globally reduced brain multivitamin it globally reduced brain aging by about 2.1 years three trials aging by about 2.1 years three trials aging by about 2.1 years three trials globally reduced brain aging by 2.1 globally reduced brain aging by 2.1 globally reduced brain aging by 2.1 years battery of tests that are done years battery of tests that are done years battery of tests that are done right it's sure you know I'm just right it's sure you know I'm just right it's sure you know I'm just talking about general here and it also talking about general here and it also talking about general here and it also reduced episodic brain aging by 4.9 reduced episodic brain aging by 4.9 reduced episodic brain aging by 4.9 years so that would be you know as years so that would be you know as years so that would be you know as people probably already familiar with people probably already familiar with people probably already familiar with that listen to this podcast you know that listen to this podcast you know that listen to this podcast you know episodic memory that's the part of episodic memory that's the part of episodic memory that's the part of memory that's involved in like memory that's involved in like memory that's involved in like remembering events and and people and remembering events and and people and remembering events and and people and like experiences am I right I mean part like experiences am I right I mean part like experiences am I right I mean part of like not not as much of like not not as much of like not not as much >> sequence of >> sequence of >> sequence of of things. Yeah. And so, you know, of things. Yeah. And so, you know, of things. Yeah. And so, you know, that's a big effect for just a daily that's a big effect for just a daily that's a big effect for just a daily multivitamin, you know, and so, uh, for multivitamin, you know, and so, uh, for multivitamin, you know, and so, uh, for that reason, you know, I mean, I've been that reason, you know, I mean, I've been that reason, you know, I mean, I've been taking it before this these studies came taking it before this these studies came taking it before this these studies came out, but that my parents, you know, out, but that my parents, you know, out, but that my parents, you know, anyone that's older adult should be anyone that's older adult should be anyone that's older adult should be taking a multivitamin. So, that's taking a multivitamin. So, that's taking a multivitamin. So, that's another one that I take. another one that I take. another one that I take. >> Um, and I take it to cover my bases as >> Um, and I take it to cover my bases as >> Um, and I take it to cover my bases as well. I'm obviously not an older adult well. I'm obviously not an older adult well. I'm obviously not an older adult and who knows it might not have the same and who knows it might not have the same and who knows it might not have the same effect on me but um you know it's one of effect on me but um you know it's one of effect on me but um you know it's one of those that it's it's not harmful those that it's it's not harmful those that it's it's not harmful >> um if I'm you know it's a little bit of >> um if I'm you know it's a little bit of >> um if I'm you know it's a little bit of an expensive urine fine but I there are an expensive urine fine but I there are an expensive urine fine but I there are it is covering some of my bases in terms it is covering some of my bases in terms it is covering some of my bases in terms of some of the micronutrients in it of some of the micronutrients in it of some of the micronutrients in it right right right >> the other ones that I take in besides >> the other ones that I take in besides >> the other ones that I take in besides the one that you mentioned which is the one that you mentioned which is the one that you mentioned which is vitamin D omega-3 I do creatine vitamin D omega-3 I do creatine vitamin D omega-3 I do creatine magnesium I do I do magnesium glycinate magnesium I do I do magnesium glycinate magnesium I do I do magnesium glycinate I should look into the bis glycine I should look into the bis glycine I should look into the bis glycine because I definitely would like another because I definitely would like another because I definitely would like another molecule of glycine I like for my sleep. molecule of glycine I like for my sleep. molecule of glycine I like for my sleep. >> But I also sometimes take another form >> But I also sometimes take another form >> But I also sometimes take another form of magnesium which is it's like a of magnesium which is it's like a of magnesium which is it's like a mixture of magnesium malate and tarate I mixture of magnesium malate and tarate I mixture of magnesium malate and tarate I think are the and and glycinate is is think are the and and glycinate is is think are the and and glycinate is is also in that but sometimes I take that also in that but sometimes I take that also in that but sometimes I take that for sleep for sleep for sleep >> and then I take ubiquininal >> and then I take ubiquininal >> and then I take ubiquininal >> um for mitochondrial health. >> um for mitochondrial health. >> um for mitochondrial health. >> You you like the data on that obviously >> You you like the data on that obviously >> You you like the data on that obviously if you're taking it if you're taking it if you're taking it >> there's stronger data I think on >> there's stronger data I think on >> there's stronger data I think on ubiquinon ubiquinon ubiquinon >> which is the oxidized form it's more >> which is the oxidized form it's more >> which is the oxidized form it's more stable stable stable >> there's just when I say stronger I mean >> there's just when I say stronger I mean >> there's just when I say stronger I mean more data. Do you take co-enzyme Q10? more data. Do you take co-enzyme Q10? more data. Do you take co-enzyme Q10? >> So Co CoQ10 is Yeah. CoQ10 is >> So Co CoQ10 is Yeah. CoQ10 is >> So Co CoQ10 is Yeah. CoQ10 is ubiquininal. ubiquininal. ubiquininal. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And so and so I'm taking the >> Yeah. And so and so I'm taking the >> Yeah. And so and so I'm taking the reduced form of it, which is reduced form of it, which is reduced form of it, which is ubiquininal. The the more stable form ubiquininal. The the more stable form ubiquininal. The the more stable form would be ubiquinon. would be ubiquinon. would be ubiquinon. >> Are those trademark names? Because I I >> Are those trademark names? Because I I >> Are those trademark names? Because I I take co-enzyme Q10. take co-enzyme Q10. take co-enzyme Q10. >> Yeah. You're taking >> Yeah. You're taking >> Yeah. You're taking >> I'm guessing if I took a closer look at >> I'm guessing if I took a closer look at >> I'm guessing if I took a closer look at the bottle, I'd see the ubiquinon. the bottle, I'd see the ubiquinon. the bottle, I'd see the ubiquinon. >> It's ubiquin. Ubiquinone. >> It's ubiquin. Ubiquinone. >> It's ubiquin. Ubiquinone. >> The ubiquininal is a little bit more >> The ubiquininal is a little bit more >> The ubiquininal is a little bit more bioavailable, but yeah. So I I'm I'm bioavailable, but yeah. So I I'm I'm bioavailable, but yeah. So I I'm I'm pretty convinced that that helps with pretty convinced that that helps with pretty convinced that that helps with mitochondrial function. um you know it's mitochondrial function. um you know it's mitochondrial function. um you know it's not like you could always have more not like you could always have more not like you could always have more data, right? So we'll just leave it at data, right? So we'll just leave it at data, right? So we'll just leave it at that. that. that. >> The other one I take is now I'm taking >> The other one I take is now I'm taking >> The other one I take is now I'm taking uralithn uralithn uralithn >> in the form of I'm taking moper by the >> in the form of I'm taking moper by the >> in the form of I'm taking moper by the way I have nothing to do with these way I have nothing to do with these way I have nothing to do with these companies but there's now I've just been companies but there's now I've just been companies but there's now I've just been over the years increasingly interested. over the years increasingly interested. over the years increasingly interested. So uraliththan A is something that is So uraliththan A is something that is So uraliththan A is something that is formed from a type of polyphenol that's formed from a type of polyphenol that's formed from a type of polyphenol that's found in some fruits like pomegranate found in some fruits like pomegranate found in some fruits like pomegranate being the main one I think and being the main one I think and being the main one I think and raspberries may also have some I think raspberries may also have some I think raspberries may also have some I think walnuts also but it's elagitanin is the walnuts also but it's elagitanin is the walnuts also but it's elagitanin is the polyphenol and these elagitanins get polyphenol and these elagitanins get polyphenol and these elagitanins get metabolized by the gut microbiome and metabolized by the gut microbiome and metabolized by the gut microbiome and the metabolites that are formed one of the metabolites that are formed one of the metabolites that are formed one of them is called uroliththn and so them is called uroliththn and so them is called uroliththn and so uroliththn is a compound that seems to uroliththn is a compound that seems to uroliththn is a compound that seems to stimulate the process of mphagy which is stimulate the process of mphagy which is stimulate the process of mphagy which is a very specific form of autophagy that's a very specific form of autophagy that's a very specific form of autophagy that's that's only for mitochondria and you that's only for mitochondria and you that's only for mitochondria and you know that's been shown in there have know that's been shown in there have know that's been shown in there have been randomized control trials showing been randomized control trials showing been randomized control trials showing this in humans. It does stimulate mphagy this in humans. It does stimulate mphagy this in humans. It does stimulate mphagy um blood cells as well as um muscle um blood cells as well as um muscle um blood cells as well as um muscle biopsy but that's an important cleanup biopsy but that's an important cleanup biopsy but that's an important cleanup process for for how our mitochondria process for for how our mitochondria process for for how our mitochondria repair themselves. there's no repair repair themselves. there's no repair repair themselves. there's no repair enzymes, right? Like they're, you know, enzymes, right? Like they're, you know, enzymes, right? Like they're, you know, part of that repair process is mphagy part of that repair process is mphagy part of that repair process is mphagy where they're getting rid of selectively where they're getting rid of selectively where they're getting rid of selectively can get rid of parts of mitochondria can get rid of parts of mitochondria can get rid of parts of mitochondria that are damaged. So, it's really a that are damaged. So, it's really a that are damaged. So, it's really a rejuvenation and and some of this the rejuvenation and and some of this the rejuvenation and and some of this the clinical data I would say is emerging. clinical data I would say is emerging. clinical data I would say is emerging. More needs to be done, but it seems to More needs to be done, but it seems to More needs to be done, but it seems to in some cases improve endurance in some cases improve endurance in some cases improve endurance performance, which makes sense because performance, which makes sense because performance, which makes sense because they rely heavily on mitochondria, but they rely heavily on mitochondria, but they rely heavily on mitochondria, but even also um help with the immune system even also um help with the immune system even also um help with the immune system and and this whole inflammaging. So, it and and this whole inflammaging. So, it and and this whole inflammaging. So, it helps keep immune cells. it seems like helps keep immune cells. it seems like helps keep immune cells. it seems like it's helping keeping immune cells quote it's helping keeping immune cells quote it's helping keeping immune cells quote unquote younger. unquote younger. unquote younger. So again, emerging data, but it's I'm in So again, emerging data, but it's I'm in So again, emerging data, but it's I'm in that I I'm like I'm the experiment that I I'm like I'm the experiment that I I'm like I'm the experiment group. It seems to be safe and I'm not group. It seems to be safe and I'm not group. It seems to be safe and I'm not taking too high of a dose. So that's taking too high of a dose. So that's taking too high of a dose. So that's another one that I'm supplementing with. another one that I'm supplementing with. another one that I'm supplementing with. >> The other one that I'm taking also is uh >> The other one that I'm taking also is uh >> The other one that I'm taking also is uh a very a form of I would say I'm going a very a form of I would say I'm going a very a form of I would say I'm going to call it sulforophane, but it's not to call it sulforophane, but it's not to call it sulforophane, but it's not sulfurophane. It's the precursor to sulfurophane. It's the precursor to sulfurophane. It's the precursor to sulfurophane glucaraphin because that's sulfurophane glucaraphin because that's sulfurophane glucaraphin because that's more stable. And so I take something more stable. And so I take something more stable. And so I take something called aol um which the reason I take called aol um which the reason I take called aol um which the reason I take that one is because there's oh it's 13 that one is because there's oh it's 13 that one is because there's oh it's 13 now a new study just came out 13 studies now a new study just came out 13 studies now a new study just came out 13 studies using that that form um and sulfurophane using that that form um and sulfurophane using that that form um and sulfurophane is also one of those plant is also one of those plant is also one of those plant phyitochemicals it's formed it's found phyitochemicals it's formed it's found phyitochemicals it's formed it's found in cruciferous vegetables as you know in cruciferous vegetables as you know in cruciferous vegetables as you know we've talked about this before so I'll we've talked about this before so I'll we've talked about this before so I'll I'll try to leave make it brief but um I'll try to leave make it brief but um I'll try to leave make it brief but um so glucaraphin is in in these so glucaraphin is in in these so glucaraphin is in in these cruciferous vegetables like broccoli cruciferous vegetables like broccoli cruciferous vegetables like broccoli broccoli sprouts are really really great broccoli sprouts are really really great broccoli sprouts are really really great source of it and when the plant is source of it and when the plant is source of it and when the plant is crushed, you know, like when you eat it, crushed, you know, like when you eat it, crushed, you know, like when you eat it, eat broccoli or chew it, whatever. The eat broccoli or chew it, whatever. The eat broccoli or chew it, whatever. The an enzyme is activated that converts an enzyme is activated that converts an enzyme is activated that converts glucaraphin into sulforophane. The glucaraphin into sulforophane. The glucaraphin into sulforophane. The reason I take it is because I've been reason I take it is because I've been reason I take it is because I've been now convinced by, I would say, the now convinced by, I would say, the now convinced by, I would say, the limited number of human studies, limited number of human studies, limited number of human studies, clinical studies, but also the totality clinical studies, but also the totality clinical studies, but also the totality of evidence looking at cruciferous of evidence looking at cruciferous of evidence looking at cruciferous vegetables in general and then also vegetables in general and then also vegetables in general and then also animal data that um it's really animal data that um it's really animal data that um it's really important. It's probably the the best important. It's probably the the best important. It's probably the the best naturally occurring dietary activator of naturally occurring dietary activator of naturally occurring dietary activator of a stress response pathway that is a stress response pathway that is a stress response pathway that is important for detoxification. And that important for detoxification. And that important for detoxification. And that that pathway is the NRF2 pathway. I'm that pathway is the NRF2 pathway. I'm that pathway is the NRF2 pathway. I'm sure you've heard of that pathway. sure you've heard of that pathway. sure you've heard of that pathway. Sulfurophane is a very very powerful Sulfurophane is a very very powerful Sulfurophane is a very very powerful activator of that pathway. And what I activator of that pathway. And what I activator of that pathway. And what I mean by pathway is that gene is turning mean by pathway is that gene is turning mean by pathway is that gene is turning on and turning off many many other on and turning off many many other on and turning off many many other genes. What we know about it is that genes. What we know about it is that genes. What we know about it is that it's very important for activating the it's very important for activating the it's very important for activating the the detoxification the detoxification the detoxification genes that are involved in detoxifying genes that are involved in detoxifying genes that are involved in detoxifying things that are that are harmful to us. things that are that are harmful to us. things that are that are harmful to us. And so the classic studies that have And so the classic studies that have And so the classic studies that have been done, some of them, most of them in been done, some of them, most of them in been done, some of them, most of them in China where air pollution is very high, China where air pollution is very high, China where air pollution is very high, is that if you take, you know, this is that if you take, you know, this is that if you take, you know, this broccoli sprout sulfurophane extract, broccoli sprout sulfurophane extract, broccoli sprout sulfurophane extract, you can start to excrete compounds that you can start to excrete compounds that you can start to excrete compounds that are found in air pollution like benzene are found in air pollution like benzene are found in air pollution like benzene that are carcinogenic, right? And you that are carcinogenic, right? And you that are carcinogenic, right? And you can start to excrete it after 24 hours can start to excrete it after 24 hours can start to excrete it after 24 hours by like 60%. Great. What about plastics? by like 60%. Great. What about plastics? by like 60%. Great. What about plastics? >> So, that's that's my that's my thing. >> So, that's that's my that's my thing. >> So, that's that's my that's my thing. That's why I'm taking it my whole family That's why I'm taking it my whole family That's why I'm taking it my whole family because the same enzymes that are because the same enzymes that are because the same enzymes that are activated by um by the the sulfurophane activated by um by the the sulfurophane activated by um by the the sulfurophane >> that detoxify >> that detoxify >> that detoxify benzene. So, basically you're you're benzene. So, basically you're you're benzene. So, basically you're you're detoxifying it. What I mean is you're detoxifying it. What I mean is you're detoxifying it. What I mean is you're basically making it water soluble so you basically making it water soluble so you basically making it water soluble so you can excrete it through urine. Okay. can excrete it through urine. Okay. can excrete it through urine. Okay. >> The same ones that's exactly what BP >> The same ones that's exactly what BP >> The same ones that's exactly what BP those enzymes do to BPA. They make it those enzymes do to BPA. They make it those enzymes do to BPA. They make it water soluble and help you excrete it water soluble and help you excrete it water soluble and help you excrete it through urine. There's no human data through urine. There's no human data through urine. There's no human data showing this yet. I want someone to do showing this yet. I want someone to do showing this yet. I want someone to do the study, but we do have animal the study, but we do have animal the study, but we do have animal evidence where, you know, animals are evidence where, you know, animals are evidence where, you know, animals are given a high dose of BPA and given a high dose of BPA and given a high dose of BPA and sulfurophane and it protects against the sulfurophane and it protects against the sulfurophane and it protects against the toxicity. toxicity. toxicity. >> I basically think that it someone's >> I basically think that it someone's >> I basically think that it someone's going to show it and it's going to be going to show it and it's going to be going to show it and it's going to be clear because the enzymes that are, you clear because the enzymes that are, you clear because the enzymes that are, you know, involved are activated by this, know, involved are activated by this, know, involved are activated by this, you know, by sulforophane and that's you know, by sulforophane and that's you know, by sulforophane and that's been shown with benzene and acryine been shown with benzene and acryine been shown with benzene and acryine excretion, right? So why wouldn't it be excretion, right? So why wouldn't it be excretion, right? So why wouldn't it be BPA? You never know. mechanistic logic. BPA? You never know. mechanistic logic. BPA? You never know. mechanistic logic. >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So that's >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So that's >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So that's another reason why also it increases um another reason why also it increases um another reason why also it increases um it's been shown in human studies to very it's been shown in human studies to very it's been shown in human studies to very powerfully increase glutathione in both powerfully increase glutathione in both powerfully increase glutathione in both the plasma and the brain. And that's the plasma and the brain. And that's the plasma and the brain. And that's also through the NRF2 pathway. It also through the NRF2 pathway. It also through the NRF2 pathway. It activates the powerful antioxidant activates the powerful antioxidant activates the powerful antioxidant pathway. It also deactivates phase one pathway. It also deactivates phase one pathway. It also deactivates phase one biotansformation enzymes. Those are biotansformation enzymes. Those are biotansformation enzymes. Those are involved in um turning a procarinogen involved in um turning a procarinogen involved in um turning a procarinogen into a carcinogen. So those are things into a carcinogen. So those are things into a carcinogen. So those are things like you're eating, you know, you're like you're eating, you know, you're like you're eating, you know, you're you're grilling your meat at a high you're grilling your meat at a high you're grilling your meat at a high temperature and you're getting temperature and you're getting temperature and you're getting heterosyclic amines, right? I mean these heterosyclic amines, right? I mean these heterosyclic amines, right? I mean these these things can be harmful and but our these things can be harmful and but our these things can be harmful and but our body can deal with it. body can deal with it. body can deal with it. >> Yeah. We had a cancer doc on here >> Yeah. We had a cancer doc on here >> Yeah. We had a cancer doc on here recently and I was scared to ask him the recently and I was scared to ask him the recently and I was scared to ask him the question cuz I didn't want the answer question cuz I didn't want the answer question cuz I didn't want the answer but I did want the answer of you know but I did want the answer of you know but I did want the answer of you know the the char on meat the the char on meat the the char on meat >> and he's like it's pretty pretty serious >> and he's like it's pretty pretty serious >> and he's like it's pretty pretty serious carcinogen that's real. I mean the carcinogen that's real. I mean the carcinogen that's real. I mean the occasional thing isn't going to occasional thing isn't going to occasional thing isn't going to >> be a problem. You'll be relieved to know >> be a problem. You'll be relieved to know >> be a problem. You'll be relieved to know and this is not a promotional that the and this is not a promotional that the and this is not a promotional that the can that you're drinking out of these can that you're drinking out of these can that you're drinking out of these are intentionally BPA BPS and pests are intentionally BPA BPS and pests are intentionally BPA BPS and pests free. We've that we test them. I'd be free. We've that we test them. I'd be free. We've that we test them. I'd be happy to send you the results. I already happy to send you the results. I already happy to send you the results. I already know I already knew about that because I know I already knew about that because I know I already knew about that because I know that you and I are both I I am wary know that you and I are both I I am wary know that you and I are both I I am wary of of the the BPA and um and the rest. I of of the the BPA and um and the rest. I of of the the BPA and um and the rest. I think it's wild that 10 years ago people think it's wild that 10 years ago people think it's wild that 10 years ago people like Charles Polloquin were saying don't like Charles Polloquin were saying don't like Charles Polloquin were saying don't handle receipts and handle receipts and handle receipts and >> you know and everyone like this is >> you know and everyone like this is >> you know and everyone like this is really kooky or actually back then no really kooky or actually back then no really kooky or actually back then no one even heard what he was saying. It one even heard what he was saying. It one even heard what he was saying. It was such a niche thing. Then people were was such a niche thing. Then people were was such a niche thing. Then people were very I think disparaging of people very I think disparaging of people very I think disparaging of people saying be wary of receipts. Now I think saying be wary of receipts. Now I think saying be wary of receipts. Now I think the um the microplastics um and the BPA the um the microplastics um and the BPA the um the microplastics um and the BPA BPS uh PAS concern is is really taking BPS uh PAS concern is is really taking BPS uh PAS concern is is really taking hold more broadly and I think hold more broadly and I think hold more broadly and I think >> that you know the the tables have >> that you know the the tables have >> that you know the the tables have turned. turned. turned. >> Yeah. And really obviously you can't >> Yeah. And really obviously you can't >> Yeah. And really obviously you can't eliminate them completely. It's eliminate them completely. It's eliminate them completely. It's impossible. They're everywhere. They're impossible. They're everywhere. They're impossible. They're everywhere. They're everywhere. I mean we're we're everywhere. I mean we're we're everywhere. I mean we're we're >> clothing I heard is the main >> clothing I heard is the main >> clothing I heard is the main >> it's the main source of microplastics in >> it's the main source of microplastics in >> it's the main source of microplastics in the ocean, the ocean, the ocean, >> right? because our wash we're washing >> right? because our wash we're washing >> right? because our wash we're washing our clothes and there's they're this our clothes and there's they're this our clothes and there's they're this cute shirt that I'm wearing I mean it's cute shirt that I'm wearing I mean it's cute shirt that I'm wearing I mean it's it's got microplastics in it for sure. it's got microplastics in it for sure. it's got microplastics in it for sure. Um and and so every time you're washing Um and and so every time you're washing Um and and so every time you're washing your clothes you're all the your clothes you're all the your clothes you're all the microplastics are coming out and and microplastics are coming out and and microplastics are coming out and and getting into the ocean and also then getting into the ocean and also then getting into the ocean and also then when you put your clothes in the dryer when you put your clothes in the dryer when you put your clothes in the dryer and if your dryer is ventilating and if your dryer is ventilating and if your dryer is ventilating anywhere in your house they're micropl anywhere in your house they're micropl anywhere in your house they're micropl you're breathing those in the you're breathing those in the you're breathing those in the microplastics. They sell these traps. microplastics. They sell these traps. microplastics. They sell these traps. When I did the episode on microplastics, When I did the episode on microplastics, When I did the episode on microplastics, I found out that there online you can I I found out that there online you can I I found out that there online you can I think it costs it's not it's not cheap think it costs it's not it's not cheap think it costs it's not it's not cheap cheap, but it's like considering they cheap, but it's like considering they cheap, but it's like considering they last a while. I think they're somewhere last a while. I think they're somewhere last a while. I think they're somewhere with refill somewhere in the with refill somewhere in the with refill somewhere in the neighborhood of I want to say something neighborhood of I want to say something neighborhood of I want to say something like $70, but it traps supposedly traps like $70, but it traps supposedly traps like $70, but it traps supposedly traps the micro in the washing machine. the micro in the washing machine. the micro in the washing machine. >> In the washing machine and in Europe, I >> In the washing machine and in Europe, I >> In the washing machine and in Europe, I think this is actually built in or is think this is actually built in or is think this is actually built in or is required in a in a number of countries required in a in a number of countries required in a in a number of countries like they they're way ahead of us. Yeah, like they they're way ahead of us. Yeah, like they they're way ahead of us. Yeah, >> they're way ahead of us on a number of >> they're way ahead of us on a number of >> they're way ahead of us on a number of things. I mean on a few things they're things. I mean on a few things they're things. I mean on a few things they're really they're far behind I must say really they're far behind I must say really they're far behind I must say with respect to health but on on many with respect to health but on on many with respect to health but on on many things they are way ahead of us. things they are way ahead of us. things they are way ahead of us. >> Yeah. Well clearly with the Switzerland >> Yeah. Well clearly with the Switzerland >> Yeah. Well clearly with the Switzerland people in Switzerland being 80 like 88% people in Switzerland being 80 like 88% people in Switzerland being 80 like 88% of them being physically active. They're of them being physically active. They're of them being physically active. They're way ahead of us on that. way ahead of us on that. way ahead of us on that. >> I'm excited to share with you that >> I'm excited to share with you that >> I'm excited to share with you that Matina the Yerba Mate drink that I Matina the Yerba Mate drink that I Matina the Yerba Mate drink that I helped create is now available at helped create is now available at helped create is now available at Sprouts Market nationwide. Longtime Sprouts Market nationwide. Longtime Sprouts Market nationwide. Longtime listeners of the Huberman Lab podcast listeners of the Huberman Lab podcast listeners of the Huberman Lab podcast know that Yerba Mate is my preferred know that Yerba Mate is my preferred know that Yerba Mate is my preferred caffeine source. It provides a smooth caffeine source. It provides a smooth caffeine source. It provides a smooth energy lift without giving you the energy lift without giving you the energy lift without giving you the jitters. And it has many other benefits jitters. And it has many other benefits jitters. And it has many other benefits such as helping regulate blood sugar, such as helping regulate blood sugar, such as helping regulate blood sugar, improving digestion, mild appetite improving digestion, mild appetite improving digestion, mild appetite suppression, and more. Matina is my suppression, and more. Matina is my suppression, and more. Matina is my absolute favorite of all the Yerba Mate absolute favorite of all the Yerba Mate absolute favorite of all the Yerba Mate brands out there, and believe me, I've brands out there, and believe me, I've brands out there, and believe me, I've tried them all. The flavors are tried them all. The flavors are tried them all. The flavors are fantastic. I drink at least three cans fantastic. I drink at least three cans fantastic. I drink at least three cans of Matina every single day. You'll often of Matina every single day. You'll often of Matina every single day. 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To learn more about how you can get a free can of Matina, go to get a free can of Matina, go to get a free can of Matina, go to drinkmatina.com/offer. drinkmatina.com/offer. drinkmatina.com/offer. Again, that's drinkmatina.com/offer Again, that's drinkmatina.com/offer Again, that's drinkmatina.com/offer to get a can of matina for free at your to get a can of matina for free at your to get a can of matina for free at your local Sprouts Market. What is your local Sprouts Market. What is your local Sprouts Market. What is your threshold for you? And what do you think threshold for you? And what do you think threshold for you? And what do you think is kind of reasonable levels of what's is kind of reasonable levels of what's is kind of reasonable levels of what's actionable for you? Like how do you set actionable for you? Like how do you set actionable for you? Like how do you set that? I think it will help people kind that? I think it will help people kind that? I think it will help people kind of understand how you're approaching of understand how you're approaching of understand how you're approaching stuff. stuff. stuff. >> What's actionable in terms of improving >> What's actionable in terms of improving >> What's actionable in terms of improving what I'm interested in improving my what I'm interested in improving my what I'm interested in improving my health? Like health? Like health? Like >> yeah. Like I mean without picking any >> yeah. Like I mean without picking any >> yeah. Like I mean without picking any specific example like when you look at specific example like when you look at specific example like when you look at the literature and you see let's say the literature and you see let's say the literature and you see let's say let's take BPC7. It's kind of a fun one let's take BPC7. It's kind of a fun one let's take BPC7. It's kind of a fun one because everyone's excited about this because everyone's excited about this because everyone's excited about this now except the physicians now except the physicians now except the physicians >> um who don't like working with peptides >> um who don't like working with peptides >> um who don't like working with peptides besides GLPs or other FDA approved besides GLPs or other FDA approved besides GLPs or other FDA approved peptides. They're like freaking out peptides. They're like freaking out peptides. They're like freaking out online. online. online. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> From them all the time. compounding >> From them all the time. compounding >> From them all the time. compounding pharmacy just got the green light that pharmacy just got the green light that pharmacy just got the green light that they're going to be able to do basically they're going to be able to do basically they're going to be able to do basically whatever exel except sell redat true whatever exel except sell redat true whatever exel except sell redat true tide which is under patent um so there tide which is under patent um so there tide which is under patent um so there are many many animal studies on BPC57 are many many animal studies on BPC57 are many many animal studies on BPC57 showing accelerated cartilage growth showing accelerated cartilage growth showing accelerated cartilage growth nerve growth after injury and on and on nerve growth after injury and on and on nerve growth after injury and on and on and on and on and angiogenesis so and on and on and angiogenesis so and on and on and angiogenesis so there's some potential cancer risk there there's some potential cancer risk there there's some potential cancer risk there right but basically zero human data right but basically zero human data right but basically zero human data >> there's one study weak study self-report >> there's one study weak study self-report >> there's one study weak study self-report there's actually a clinical trial where there's actually a clinical trial where there's actually a clinical trial where they I'm not making this up folks is BPC they I'm not making this up folks is BPC they I'm not making this up folks is BPC enemas very high dosage for for a uh for enemas very high dosage for for a uh for enemas very high dosage for for a uh for some sort of bowel disease or bowel some sort of bowel disease or bowel some sort of bowel disease or bowel inflammation and the study was like I inflammation and the study was like I inflammation and the study was like I don't think the study was completed or don't think the study was completed or don't think the study was completed or something like that don't ask me why no something like that don't ask me why no something like that don't ask me why no I'm not making this up um but that's I'm not making this up um but that's I'm not making this up um but that's pretty much the only human data that I'm pretty much the only human data that I'm pretty much the only human data that I'm aware of um but tons of people injecting aware of um but tons of people injecting aware of um but tons of people injecting and swallowing BPC and saying yeah it and swallowing BPC and saying yeah it and swallowing BPC and saying yeah it helped me recover you know heal more helped me recover you know heal more helped me recover you know heal more quickly How do you think about something quickly How do you think about something quickly How do you think about something like that? Like that current condition. like that? Like that current condition. like that? Like that current condition. >> First of all, if you're not doing it, >> First of all, if you're not doing it, >> First of all, if you're not doing it, you're not going to be doing this every you're not going to be doing this every you're not going to be doing this every day forever, right? Like this is a short day forever, right? Like this is a short day forever, right? Like this is a short defined period of time where you're defined period of time where you're defined period of time where you're going to do your injections. Oh, really? going to do your injections. Oh, really? going to do your injections. Oh, really? Okay. Okay. Okay. >> I know. I know. I mean, I don't know >> I know. I know. I mean, I don't know >> I know. I know. I mean, I don't know what people do. Unfortunately, I think what people do. Unfortunately, I think what people do. Unfortunately, I think some people like to take it every day, some people like to take it every day, some people like to take it every day, but let's assume for uh let's assume two but let's assume for uh let's assume two but let's assume for uh let's assume two months maximum to work around an injury months maximum to work around an injury months maximum to work around an injury or through an injury. or through an injury. or through an injury. >> Yeah. I like for people that I know that >> Yeah. I like for people that I know that >> Yeah. I like for people that I know that have experimented with it, it's been have experimented with it, it's been have experimented with it, it's been like 3 months like 3 months like 3 months >> and a period of time and they did have >> and a period of time and they did have >> and a period of time and they did have improvements and they could have been improvements and they could have been improvements and they could have been through placebo which I will you know through placebo which I will you know through placebo which I will you know say is possible but for me it it really say is possible but for me it it really say is possible but for me it it really comes down to like is it safe? comes down to like is it safe? comes down to like is it safe? >> Is it safe? Okay. If it's safe, you >> Is it safe? Okay. If it's safe, you >> Is it safe? Okay. If it's safe, you obviously have to get the good source obviously have to get the good source obviously have to get the good source because if it's all thesearmacies now, I because if it's all thesearmacies now, I because if it's all thesearmacies now, I mean, that's a problem because we do mean, that's a problem because we do mean, that's a problem because we do know that that's a big area of I would know that that's a big area of I would know that that's a big area of I would say concern with any sort of say concern with any sort of say concern with any sort of neutrautical, neutrautical, neutrautical, you know, sort of thing. And I would put you know, sort of thing. And I would put you know, sort of thing. And I would put this into that category this into that category this into that category >> is that, you know, people are putting >> is that, you know, people are putting >> is that, you know, people are putting things in the products that are not things in the products that are not things in the products that are not necessarily what's supposed to be in necessarily what's supposed to be in necessarily what's supposed to be in there and they're not really paying there and they're not really paying there and they're not really paying attention to quality because it's not attention to quality because it's not attention to quality because it's not regulated, right? So um so if you can regulated, right? So um so if you can regulated, right? So um so if you can get a good source of it and you trust get a good source of it and you trust get a good source of it and you trust the source of it and you have maybe the source of it and you have maybe the source of it and you have maybe someone who is qualified to prescribe it someone who is qualified to prescribe it someone who is qualified to prescribe it to you because there are you know to you because there are you know to you because there are you know naturopaths and stuff like that naturopaths and stuff like that naturopaths and stuff like that functional medicine practitioners there functional medicine practitioners there functional medicine practitioners there are people that are prescribing them are people that are prescribing them are people that are prescribing them >> and some MDs some board certified MDs >> and some MDs some board certified MDs >> and some MDs some board certified MDs are are are >> did their residency did all the thing I >> did their residency did all the thing I >> did their residency did all the thing I know because I'm friends with some of know because I'm friends with some of know because I'm friends with some of them and a lot of doctors are happy to them and a lot of doctors are happy to them and a lot of doctors are happy to prescribe peptides off prescribe peptides off prescribe peptides off >> um sort of off label like smearellin for >> um sort of off label like smearellin for >> um sort of off label like smearellin for purposes other than what it was FDA purposes other than what it was FDA purposes other than what it was FDA approved for. I mean, I'm not taking it, approved for. I mean, I'm not taking it, approved for. I mean, I'm not taking it, you know, as I mentioned earlier, but you know, as I mentioned earlier, but you know, as I mentioned earlier, but >> but you've tried it. >> but you've tried it. >> but you've tried it. >> It very quickly spiked my PSA and nuked >> It very quickly spiked my PSA and nuked >> It very quickly spiked my PSA and nuked my REM sleep and increased my deep my REM sleep and increased my deep my REM sleep and increased my deep sleep. So, I was like, I don't want to I sleep. So, I was like, I don't want to I sleep. So, I was like, I don't want to I don't I'm not interested in those don't I'm not interested in those don't I'm not interested in those effects. And um and I do worry about effects. And um and I do worry about effects. And um and I do worry about tickling the growth hormone pathway too tickling the growth hormone pathway too tickling the growth hormone pathway too much or too long because of, much or too long because of, much or too long because of, >> you know, I don't you know, hopefully I >> you know, I don't you know, hopefully I >> you know, I don't you know, hopefully I don't have any tumors sitting around, don't have any tumors sitting around, don't have any tumors sitting around, but if I do, I don't want to vascularize but if I do, I don't want to vascularize but if I do, I don't want to vascularize them or grow them, them or grow them, them or grow them, >> right? Yeah. So for me, I mean, I'm >> right? Yeah. So for me, I mean, I'm >> right? Yeah. So for me, I mean, I'm always more on the cautious side to be always more on the cautious side to be always more on the cautious side to be honest. And so for me, the safety thing honest. And so for me, the safety thing honest. And so for me, the safety thing has to be has to be has to be >> checked first. >> checked first. >> checked first. >> And then at that point, if I can check >> And then at that point, if I can check >> And then at that point, if I can check the safety thing, then it's like you the safety thing, then it's like you the safety thing, then it's like you said, I mean, I can't I I'll try it. said, I mean, I can't I I'll try it. said, I mean, I can't I I'll try it. Like I mean, I'm doing like some of Like I mean, I'm doing like some of Like I mean, I'm doing like some of these supplements that like mopure for these supplements that like mopure for these supplements that like mopure for one, like the urthan a there's not like one, like the urthan a there's not like one, like the urthan a there's not like tons and tons of data on it, but it tons and tons of data on it, but it tons and tons of data on it, but it seems to be safe seems to be safe seems to be safe >> and you know, I'm experimenting with it. >> and you know, I'm experimenting with it. >> and you know, I'm experimenting with it. >> I'm also experiment experimenting with a >> I'm also experiment experimenting with a >> I'm also experiment experimenting with a lot of other things, so it's hard to lot of other things, so it's hard to lot of other things, so it's hard to know what's working. know what's working. know what's working. >> Sure. Sure. Nicotenomide ribocide is >> Sure. Sure. Nicotenomide ribocide is >> Sure. Sure. Nicotenomide ribocide is another one I take. Um, back on to the another one I take. Um, back on to the another one I take. Um, back on to the what I what I take. what I what I take. what I what I take. >> Is that for a longevity effect? I mean, >> Is that for a longevity effect? I mean, >> Is that for a longevity effect? I mean, I take sublingual NMN. No relationship I take sublingual NMN. No relationship I take sublingual NMN. No relationship to any company that sells NMN. At least to any company that sells NMN. At least to any company that sells NMN. At least the one I take is from they hate it when the one I take is from they hate it when the one I take is from they hate it when I do this, but from Renew by Science. I do this, but from Renew by Science. I do this, but from Renew by Science. It's the cheapest version. That's not It's the cheapest version. That's not It's the cheapest version. That's not why I take I just like the powder put why I take I just like the powder put why I take I just like the powder put under my tongue. I like the energy under my tongue. I like the energy under my tongue. I like the energy effect. I will say this and I've done effect. I will say this and I've done effect. I will say this and I've done the control experiment on myself and I the control experiment on myself and I the control experiment on myself and I have family members who've done it too. have family members who've done it too. have family members who've done it too. It makes my hair grow crazy fast and my It makes my hair grow crazy fast and my It makes my hair grow crazy fast and my nails grow crazy fast. I know this nails grow crazy fast. I know this nails grow crazy fast. I know this because if I stop that that halts. Those because if I stop that that halts. Those because if I stop that that halts. Those aren't really effects I'm looking for. aren't really effects I'm looking for. aren't really effects I'm looking for. And it worries me a little bit because And it worries me a little bit because And it worries me a little bit because what else is it making grow crazy fast? what else is it making grow crazy fast? what else is it making grow crazy fast? Again, I don't think I have a tumor, but Again, I don't think I have a tumor, but Again, I don't think I have a tumor, but what else is it, you know, if I have what else is it, you know, if I have what else is it, you know, if I have like a polip or something, is it making like a polip or something, is it making like a polip or something, is it making that grow crazy fast? I don't know. that grow crazy fast? I don't know. that grow crazy fast? I don't know. >> I I asked that question to uh Dr. >> I I asked that question to uh Dr. >> I I asked that question to uh Dr. Charles Brener when I had him on podcast Charles Brener when I had him on podcast Charles Brener when I had him on podcast because I there was a study on enema in because I there was a study on enema in because I there was a study on enema in mice that they had the mice had tumors mice that they had the mice had tumors mice that they had the mice had tumors and then they you know gave them I think and then they you know gave them I think and then they you know gave them I think they injected them with enem or maybe it they injected them with enem or maybe it they injected them with enem or maybe it was orage I don't remember which which was orage I don't remember which which was orage I don't remember which which way it was but it accelerated the growth way it was but it accelerated the growth way it was but it accelerated the growth of those rare type of pancreatic cancer of those rare type of pancreatic cancer of those rare type of pancreatic cancer cells cells cells >> and so I was you know obviously energy >> and so I was you know obviously energy >> and so I was you know obviously energy yes cancer cells love energy too right yes cancer cells love energy too right yes cancer cells love energy too right >> doesn't like nmen and I will take NR >> doesn't like nmen and I will take NR >> doesn't like nmen and I will take NR sometimes I do take true sometimes I do take true sometimes I do take true >> n well it doesn't I mean either way so >> n well it doesn't I mean either way so >> n well it doesn't I mean either way so the same end point here we're increasing the same end point here we're increasing the same end point here we're increasing NAD, right? So the question is then NAD, right? So the question is then NAD, right? So the question is then okay, well should I be worried about okay, well should I be worried about okay, well should I be worried about cancer? And um he pointed me to some cancer? And um he pointed me to some cancer? And um he pointed me to some study out of Australia where I think it study out of Australia where I think it study out of Australia where I think it was maybe it might have been was maybe it might have been was maybe it might have been nicotenomide nicotenomide nicotenomide that basically prevented um some kind of that basically prevented um some kind of that basically prevented um some kind of it wasn't melanoma but it was another it wasn't melanoma but it was another it wasn't melanoma but it was another type of of skin cancer type of of skin cancer type of of skin cancer >> and so I was like okay well that seems >> and so I was like okay well that seems >> and so I was like okay well that seems sort of sort of sort of >> the point here I am experimenting with >> the point here I am experimenting with >> the point here I am experimenting with it. Why? First of all, um I became it. Why? First of all, um I became it. Why? First of all, um I became interested in it because the effects on interested in it because the effects on interested in it because the effects on mitochondrial health, mitochondrial health, mitochondrial health, >> there was effects on fertility, um you >> there was effects on fertility, um you >> there was effects on fertility, um you know, energy recovery when I started it know, energy recovery when I started it know, energy recovery when I started it just, you know, and then again, you can just, you know, and then again, you can just, you know, and then again, you can find a couple of studies where like find a couple of studies where like find a couple of studies where like maybe you know, you're not as insulin maybe you know, you're not as insulin maybe you know, you're not as insulin sensitive and who knows like it's not sensitive and who knows like it's not sensitive and who knows like it's not there's not enough data there. So, I there's not enough data there. So, I there's not enough data there. So, I would say cautiously experimenting with would say cautiously experimenting with would say cautiously experimenting with it. it. it. >> But, um so far, I love it. I don't >> But, um so far, I love it. I don't >> But, um so far, I love it. I don't again, you never know what what's here. again, you never know what what's here. again, you never know what what's here. So I um do take and they don't pay me. I So I um do take and they don't pay me. I So I um do take and they don't pay me. I buy it. Um I do take true niogen um NR. buy it. Um I do take true niogen um NR. buy it. Um I do take true niogen um NR. That's what I take NR. And on the data That's what I take NR. And on the data That's what I take NR. And on the data sheet they they include some human sheet they they include some human sheet they they include some human studies. I have a family member I'll studies. I have a family member I'll studies. I have a family member I'll just say my sister takes it. She like just say my sister takes it. She like just say my sister takes it. She like loves it. She's convinced now that could loves it. She's convinced now that could loves it. She's convinced now that could be placebo. But she is so convinced. She be placebo. But she is so convinced. She be placebo. But she is so convinced. She texts me about it. I feel so much texts me about it. I feel so much texts me about it. I feel so much better. I have so much. I have no idea. better. I have so much. I have no idea. better. I have so much. I have no idea. She has no idea if it's placebo. But She has no idea if it's placebo. But She has no idea if it's placebo. But Brener is a very good scientist. I will Brener is a very good scientist. I will Brener is a very good scientist. I will say he's he's a he's what you know what say he's he's a he's what you know what say he's he's a he's what you know what we call in our business you and me a we call in our business you and me a we call in our business you and me a serious scientist. I just don't think serious scientist. I just don't think serious scientist. I just don't think any of that's going to make me have a any of that's going to make me have a any of that's going to make me have a direct effect on living longer. I don't direct effect on living longer. I don't direct effect on living longer. I don't know that it is. I don't know that it's know that it is. I don't know that it's know that it is. I don't know that it's the it's not one of my like if if I had the it's not one of my like if if I had the it's not one of my like if if I had to like you know shrink down to my core to like you know shrink down to my core to like you know shrink down to my core supplements like it wouldn't be in there supplements like it wouldn't be in there supplements like it wouldn't be in there and you know there's many other things and you know there's many other things and you know there's many other things that are important I think for that are important I think for that are important I think for >> so if you were budget limited it >> so if you were budget limited it >> so if you were budget limited it wouldn't get above the above threshold wouldn't get above the above threshold wouldn't get above the above threshold like if someone out there had like just like if someone out there had like just like if someone out there had like just uh like uh like uh like >> 100 bucks or 200 bucks to to spend on >> 100 bucks or 200 bucks to to spend on >> 100 bucks or 200 bucks to to spend on supplements they which is a lot for a supplements they which is a lot for a supplements they which is a lot for a lot of people. lot of people. lot of people. >> I don't know that it's going to help you >> I don't know that it's going to help you >> I don't know that it's going to help you live longer either. Now, it might help live longer either. Now, it might help live longer either. Now, it might help with your exercise recovery a bit, with your exercise recovery a bit, with your exercise recovery a bit, right? It might it might help improve right? It might it might help improve right? It might it might help improve mitochondrial function. I mean, maybe mitochondrial function. I mean, maybe mitochondrial function. I mean, maybe it's going to help with repleting some it's going to help with repleting some it's going to help with repleting some of the NAD stores. I mean, if you can of the NAD stores. I mean, if you can of the NAD stores. I mean, if you can improve mitochondrial health and you improve mitochondrial health and you improve mitochondrial health and you know, you're improving things like know, you're improving things like know, you're improving things like >> on a small scale, right? So, >> on a small scale, right? So, >> on a small scale, right? So, >> mitochondrial health is at the core of >> mitochondrial health is at the core of >> mitochondrial health is at the core of everything. So, that that's something to everything. So, that that's something to everything. So, that that's something to consider. But, yeah, I'm not convinced consider. But, yeah, I'm not convinced consider. But, yeah, I'm not convinced it's the end all be either, but I do it's the end all be either, but I do it's the end all be either, but I do take it take it take it >> and it is something I'm experimenting >> and it is something I'm experimenting >> and it is something I'm experimenting with. I think it is seems to be safe and with. I think it is seems to be safe and with. I think it is seems to be safe and there's a lot of emerging data that got there's a lot of emerging data that got there's a lot of emerging data that got caught my interest caught my interest caught my interest >> but um omega-3 is the top right like >> but um omega-3 is the top right like >> but um omega-3 is the top right like that's that's there's nothing NAD that that's that's there's nothing NAD that that's that's there's nothing NAD that nicenide ribocide or NMN if you can find nicenide ribocide or NMN if you can find nicenide ribocide or NMN if you can find a good source of it that's not a good source of it that's not a good source of it that's not >> not comparable in my books >> not comparable in my books >> not comparable in my books >> have you experimented with um LC >> have you experimented with um LC >> have you experimented with um LC carnitine because of the mitochondrial carnitine because of the mitochondrial carnitine because of the mitochondrial effects because I was able to find some effects because I was able to find some effects because I was able to find some good studies on good studies on good studies on >> sperm and egg quality on mito which are >> sperm and egg quality on mito which are >> sperm and egg quality on mito which are thought to be downstream of thought to be downstream of thought to be downstream of mitochondrial health mitochondrial health mitochondrial health you you can improve mitochondrial you you can improve mitochondrial you you can improve mitochondrial health, fertility, which is why NR is health, fertility, which is why NR is health, fertility, which is why NR is now involved with fertility. Seems to be now involved with fertility. Seems to be now involved with fertility. Seems to be improving fertility is right. If you can improving fertility is right. If you can improving fertility is right. If you can improve mitochondrial health, then improve mitochondrial health, then improve mitochondrial health, then you're going to improve fertility, sperm you're going to improve fertility, sperm you're going to improve fertility, sperm health, right? Egg health, right? Um, health, right? Egg health, right? Um, health, right? Egg health, right? Um, yeah, Lcarnitine, a lot of those studies yeah, Lcarnitine, a lot of those studies yeah, Lcarnitine, a lot of those studies came out of my mentor's lab, Bruce. came out of my mentor's lab, Bruce. came out of my mentor's lab, Bruce. Same. So, he was he looked at the Same. So, he was he looked at the Same. So, he was he looked at the combination of Lcarnitine and alphalogic combination of Lcarnitine and alphalogic combination of Lcarnitine and alphalogic acid improving mitochondrial health acid improving mitochondrial health acid improving mitochondrial health >> and came up with the supplement that >> and came up with the supplement that >> and came up with the supplement that it's called Juvenon now, but it's it's called Juvenon now, but it's it's called Juvenon now, but it's Lcarnitine with alpha lipoic acid. Lcarnitine with alpha lipoic acid. Lcarnitine with alpha lipoic acid. >> It's a pill. >> It's a pill. >> It's a pill. >> It's a supplement. Yeah. Yeah. >> It's a supplement. Yeah. Yeah. >> It's a supplement. Yeah. Yeah. >> And um so yes, I have experimented with >> And um so yes, I have experimented with >> And um so yes, I have experimented with that and in fact my husband takes it but that and in fact my husband takes it but that and in fact my husband takes it but I mean I I mean I I mean I just can't take so many supplements. just can't take so many supplements. just can't take so many supplements. >> Yeah. You know I was just curious we >> Yeah. You know I was just curious we >> Yeah. You know I was just curious we have our Yeah. But it is you know you have our Yeah. But it is you know you have our Yeah. But it is you know you can find you can find evidence that it can find you can find evidence that it can find you can find evidence that it improves improves improves >> uh mitochondrial health. So you know >> uh mitochondrial health. So you know >> uh mitochondrial health. So you know it's just a matter of again like what it's just a matter of again like what it's just a matter of again like what what are what what are you looking for? what are what what are you looking for? what are what what are you looking for? I I feel like I'm doing a lot of I I feel like I'm doing a lot of I I feel like I'm doing a lot of high-intensity interval training too and high-intensity interval training too and high-intensity interval training too and I'm taking the uriththna. That's a lot. I'm taking the uriththna. That's a lot. I'm taking the uriththna. That's a lot. You know, I'm doing a lot of stuff to You know, I'm doing a lot of stuff to You know, I'm doing a lot of stuff to optimize mitochondrial health. I mean, optimize mitochondrial health. I mean, optimize mitochondrial health. I mean, at some at some point you have to like at some at some point you have to like at some at some point you have to like not you can't do everything there is. not you can't do everything there is. not you can't do everything there is. >> Sure. No, of course not. And then it's >> Sure. No, of course not. And then it's >> Sure. No, of course not. And then it's budget limited, too. budget limited, too. budget limited, too. >> And maybe, you know, maybe I should add >> And maybe, you know, maybe I should add >> And maybe, you know, maybe I should add the lcarnitine in. I mean, it's the lcarnitine in. I mean, it's the lcarnitine in. I mean, it's possible, right? possible, right? possible, right? >> I started I I've started experimenting >> I started I I've started experimenting >> I started I I've started experimenting with it, but I take it in an injectable with it, but I take it in an injectable with it, but I take it in an injectable form. form. form. >> Really? >> Really? >> Really? >> It's going to shock some people. You can >> It's going to shock some people. You can >> It's going to shock some people. You can get away with taking much lower get away with taking much lower get away with taking much lower milligram count. Otherwise, you have to milligram count. Otherwise, you have to milligram count. Otherwise, you have to take a lot of it because a lot of it take a lot of it because a lot of it take a lot of it because a lot of it just isn't absorbed if you take it just isn't absorbed if you take it just isn't absorbed if you take it orally. And then I was told that if you orally. And then I was told that if you orally. And then I was told that if you take it orally, you also have to do take it orally, you also have to do take it orally, you also have to do something to offset the increase in in something to offset the increase in in something to offset the increase in in TMAO. And that worried me. So I figured TMAO. And that worried me. So I figured TMAO. And that worried me. So I figured needles don't scare me. I'll just inject needles don't scare me. I'll just inject needles don't scare me. I'll just inject it. it. it. >> Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. The TMAO thing. >> Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. The TMAO thing. >> Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. The TMAO thing. I mean, so not it depends on your gut I mean, so not it depends on your gut I mean, so not it depends on your gut bacteria, whether or not you're bacteria, whether or not you're bacteria, whether or not you're metabolizing the LC carnitine into TMAO. metabolizing the LC carnitine into TMAO. metabolizing the LC carnitine into TMAO. There's actually a lot of complexity There's actually a lot of complexity There's actually a lot of complexity involved in that whole thing, but you involved in that whole thing, but you involved in that whole thing, but you can get your TMAO measured. So if you can get your TMAO measured. So if you can get your TMAO measured. So if you were supplementing with it, I mean the were supplementing with it, I mean the were supplementing with it, I mean the same goes for choline, you know, like if same goes for choline, you know, like if same goes for choline, you know, like if you're worried like choline can be you're worried like choline can be you're worried like choline can be converted into converted into converted into >> I'll take alpha GPC before a workout >> I'll take alpha GPC before a workout >> I'll take alpha GPC before a workout sometimes or if I need to um if I ever sometimes or if I need to um if I ever sometimes or if I need to um if I ever need to focus late in the day, I don't need to focus late in the day, I don't need to focus late in the day, I don't want caffeine because it impedes my want caffeine because it impedes my want caffeine because it impedes my sleep, but I'll take alpha GPC because sleep, but I'll take alpha GPC because sleep, but I'll take alpha GPC because this is kind of a cool effect. this is kind of a cool effect. this is kind of a cool effect. >> Alpha GPC actually will improve your REM >> Alpha GPC actually will improve your REM >> Alpha GPC actually will improve your REM sleep. sleep. sleep. >> It's not a huge effect, but you'll >> It's not a huge effect, but you'll >> It's not a huge effect, but you'll notice you'll get more REM sleep. So notice you'll get more REM sleep. So notice you'll get more REM sleep. So it's one of the few things I found that it's one of the few things I found that it's one of the few things I found that can increase energy late in the day. do can increase energy late in the day. do can increase energy late in the day. do a workout or or work if I have to work a workout or or work if I have to work a workout or or work if I have to work later into the day. Still sleep just later into the day. Still sleep just later into the day. Still sleep just fine and actually sleep better. fine and actually sleep better. fine and actually sleep better. >> What does work later into the day mean >> What does work later into the day mean >> What does work later into the day mean for you like working until like eight, for you like working until like eight, for you like working until like eight, nine o'clock or nine o'clock or nine o'clock or >> Yeah. Well, I do that um often, but but >> Yeah. Well, I do that um often, but but >> Yeah. Well, I do that um often, but but I don't like to work out after 2:00 p.m. I don't like to work out after 2:00 p.m. I don't like to work out after 2:00 p.m. because I like caffeine before I work because I like caffeine before I work because I like caffeine before I work out. So, but I'll I'll do some cardio in out. So, but I'll I'll do some cardio in out. So, but I'll I'll do some cardio in the afternoon or something. But if I the afternoon or something. But if I the afternoon or something. But if I really have to push push push or if I've really have to push push push or if I've really have to push push push or if I've traveled and I really need exercise and traveled and I really need exercise and traveled and I really need exercise and I want to get a 600 p.m. workout, but I I want to get a 600 p.m. workout, but I I want to get a 600 p.m. workout, but I also want to fall asleep at 10:30, I'll also want to fall asleep at 10:30, I'll also want to fall asleep at 10:30, I'll take some alpha GPC. take some alpha GPC. take some alpha GPC. >> I used to take that like I don't know, >> I used to take that like I don't know, >> I used to take that like I don't know, it's been maybe like 10 years, it's been maybe like 10 years, it's been maybe like 10 years, >> but um >> but um >> but um >> it's interesting. I might try >> it's interesting. I might try >> it's interesting. I might try experimenting with that again. I'm experimenting with that again. I'm experimenting with that again. I'm always looking for things that I find a always looking for things that I find a always looking for things that I find a little bit safer. Like I don't do the little bit safer. Like I don't do the little bit safer. Like I don't do the nicotine as you know. Like nicotine as you know. Like nicotine as you know. Like >> it is shocking how many young people are >> it is shocking how many young people are >> it is shocking how many young people are taking nicotine. taking nicotine. taking nicotine. >> I know. I've never tried it. >> I know. I've never tried it. >> I know. I've never tried it. >> First of all, it's highly addictive. >> First of all, it's highly addictive. >> First of all, it's highly addictive. forget the blood pressure and the vasoc forget the blood pressure and the vasoc forget the blood pressure and the vasoc constru that's all bad you know I think constru that's all bad you know I think constru that's all bad you know I think the the big issue is that if I take it the the big issue is that if I take it the the big issue is that if I take it um I start getting this spasming in my um I start getting this spasming in my um I start getting this spasming in my throat when I don't take it and that's throat when I don't take it and that's throat when I don't take it and that's because of it's I have a friend who because of it's I have a friend who because of it's I have a friend who works on these pathways and it's because works on these pathways and it's because works on these pathways and it's because of the activation of the muscerinic of the activation of the muscerinic of the activation of the muscerinic receptors so so on smooth muscle you receptors so so on smooth muscle you receptors so so on smooth muscle you start getting a tick and kind of start getting a tick and kind of start getting a tick and kind of clearing of your throat and then you clearing of your throat and then you clearing of your throat and then you take more nicotine you feel fine so I take more nicotine you feel fine so I take more nicotine you feel fine so I didn't want to become dependent on it didn't want to become dependent on it didn't want to become dependent on it >> and um I don't I don't like it I think I >> and um I don't I don't like it I think I >> and um I don't I don't like it I think I think it's a I think it's a bad habit think it's a I think it's a bad habit think it's a I think it's a bad habit that a lot of people are going to be that a lot of people are going to be that a lot of people are going to be seeking to quit it later. seeking to quit it later. seeking to quit it later. >> A lot of young people, >> A lot of young people, >> A lot of young people, >> older people might benefit from it >> older people might benefit from it >> older people might benefit from it because of the cognitive enhancement, because of the cognitive enhancement, because of the cognitive enhancement, but that's a whole other story. but that's a whole other story. but that's a whole other story. >> Well, maybe the alpha GPC and the >> Well, maybe the alpha GPC and the >> Well, maybe the alpha GPC and the creatine and yeah, creatine and yeah, creatine and yeah, >> um, magnesium L3. >> um, magnesium L3. >> um, magnesium L3. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> alpha GPC is is very is very helpful for >> alpha GPC is is very is very helpful for >> alpha GPC is is very is very helpful for if you need to really lock in for a few if you need to really lock in for a few if you need to really lock in for a few hours and do something physically. I hours and do something physically. I hours and do something physically. I take 600 milligrams. You can take up to take 600 milligrams. You can take up to take 600 milligrams. You can take up to 900, but I do just fine on 600. So, I 900, but I do just fine on 600. So, I 900, but I do just fine on 600. So, I think just take it in pure form and think just take it in pure form and think just take it in pure form and Okay., Okay., Okay., >> you know, a capsule. Yeah. >> you know, a capsule. Yeah. >> you know, a capsule. Yeah. >> Any of them out there that come from a >> Any of them out there that come from a >> Any of them out there that come from a reputable brand is like going to work. reputable brand is like going to work. reputable brand is like going to work. What about like before a podcast or What about like before a podcast or What about like before a podcast or something like that? Does that does it something like that? Does that does it something like that? Does that does it have any effect or why? have any effect or why? have any effect or why? >> Oh yeah. Yeah. It'll put you into you >> Oh yeah. Yeah. It'll put you into you >> Oh yeah. Yeah. It'll put you into you know I mean if you feel like you want to know I mean if you feel like you want to know I mean if you feel like you want to be heightened focus but I rely on water, be heightened focus but I rely on water, be heightened focus but I rely on water, caffeine, electrolytes and good good caffeine, electrolytes and good good caffeine, electrolytes and good good sleep. There's this wild study we don't sleep. There's this wild study we don't sleep. There's this wild study we don't I don't want to take us too uh too far I don't want to take us too uh too far I don't want to take us too uh too far off track here. Um but there's a study off track here. Um but there's a study off track here. Um but there's a study for out of WashU recently really really for out of WashU recently really really for out of WashU recently really really uh talented uh researcher I want to uh talented uh researcher I want to uh talented uh researcher I want to bring him on this podcast does brain bring him on this podcast does brain bring him on this podcast does brain imaging and he compared um essentially imaging and he compared um essentially imaging and he compared um essentially the effects of drugs for ADHD versus a the effects of drugs for ADHD versus a the effects of drugs for ADHD versus a good night's sleep and basically found good night's sleep and basically found good night's sleep and basically found that there's no focus enhancement of that there's no focus enhancement of that there's no focus enhancement of aderall vivance rolin type drugs they aderall vivance rolin type drugs they aderall vivance rolin type drugs they mainly looked at rolin all it's doing is mainly looked at rolin all it's doing is mainly looked at rolin all it's doing is increasing alertness to the level that increasing alertness to the level that increasing alertness to the level that you would get after after a good night's you would get after after a good night's you would get after after a good night's sleep it may be that these drugs just sleep it may be that these drugs just sleep it may be that these drugs just increase alertness which allows you to increase alertness which allows you to increase alertness which allows you to dial in focus. But if you're sleeping dial in focus. But if you're sleeping dial in focus. But if you're sleeping well and enough, you make up the gap. well and enough, you make up the gap. well and enough, you make up the gap. And people with ADHD might just be And people with ADHD might just be And people with ADHD might just be having some serious sleep defects, having some serious sleep defects, having some serious sleep defects, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> So, you know, it it it speaks to this >> So, you know, it it it speaks to this >> So, you know, it it it speaks to this thing like I don't know that there's a thing like I don't know that there's a thing like I don't know that there's a single drug that can actually increase single drug that can actually increase single drug that can actually increase cognition and focus. Most of them cognition and focus. Most of them cognition and focus. Most of them probably just get you in the plane of probably just get you in the plane of probably just get you in the plane of alertness that allows you to dial in alertness that allows you to dial in alertness that allows you to dial in your focus. Some people be like, "That's your focus. Some people be like, "That's your focus. Some people be like, "That's BS. They take modafinyl." But this is BS. They take modafinyl." But this is BS. They take modafinyl." But this is just another form of increasing just another form of increasing just another form of increasing alertness. alertness. alertness. >> Well, reducing anxiety. I think things >> Well, reducing anxiety. I think things >> Well, reducing anxiety. I think things that are anxolytic help with that as that are anxolytic help with that as that are anxolytic help with that as well. And I think I was talking about I well. And I think I was talking about I well. And I think I was talking about I don't know if I was telling you or don't know if I was telling you or don't know if I was telling you or someone else before the podcast. One of someone else before the podcast. One of someone else before the podcast. One of the reasons why I also like that the reasons why I also like that the reasons why I also like that metabolic switch with the ketosis and metabolic switch with the ketosis and metabolic switch with the ketosis and the beta hydroxybutyrate. And sometimes the beta hydroxybutyrate. And sometimes the beta hydroxybutyrate. And sometimes I'll take exogenous ketones too. I'll take exogenous ketones too. I'll take exogenous ketones too. >> Although if you take them in a fasted >> Although if you take them in a fasted >> Although if you take them in a fasted state, it kind of shuts down the state, it kind of shuts down the state, it kind of shuts down the lipolysis. But anyways, is because it lipolysis. But anyways, is because it lipolysis. But anyways, is because it increases GABA. increases GABA. increases GABA. >> The beta hydroxybate increases GABA. For >> The beta hydroxybate increases GABA. For >> The beta hydroxybate increases GABA. For me, it's beneficial because I am the me, it's beneficial because I am the me, it's beneficial because I am the phenotype where I like, you know, I can phenotype where I like, you know, I can phenotype where I like, you know, I can have other things going on in my mind have other things going on in my mind have other things going on in my mind that it's I don't want to it's not that it's I don't want to it's not that it's I don't want to it's not anxiety, but it's more of that anxious anxiety, but it's more of that anxious anxiety, but it's more of that anxious phenotype, if that makes sense. And so, phenotype, if that makes sense. And so, phenotype, if that makes sense. And so, the the increase in GABA really does um the the increase in GABA really does um the the increase in GABA really does um help me with focus because it's quieting help me with focus because it's quieting help me with focus because it's quieting down. I think down. I think down. I think >> I actually think that a lot of people >> I actually think that a lot of people >> I actually think that a lot of people who are very intellectually engaged who are very intellectually engaged who are very intellectually engaged which clearly you are over many many which clearly you are over many many which clearly you are over many many years and very physically active and years and very physically active and years and very physically active and healthy there's a lot of capacity there healthy there's a lot of capacity there healthy there's a lot of capacity there and unless there's something to really and unless there's something to really and unless there's something to really absorb all that capacity you can get absorb all that capacity you can get absorb all that capacity you can get multiple tracks going and we sometimes multiple tracks going and we sometimes multiple tracks going and we sometimes think of that as anxiety or even AD some think of that as anxiety or even AD some think of that as anxiety or even AD some people will say it's ADHD I don't people will say it's ADHD I don't people will say it's ADHD I don't necessarily think it's that but it's an necessarily think it's that but it's an necessarily think it's that but it's an uncomfortable state to be in so pleasure uncomfortable state to be in so pleasure uncomfortable state to be in so pleasure to be like where all one's resources to be like where all one's resources to be like where all one's resources physical or cognitive or both are are physical or cognitive or both are are physical or cognitive or both are are harnessed It's a it's a very pleasant harnessed It's a it's a very pleasant harnessed It's a it's a very pleasant state. Earlier you were saying the GABA state. Earlier you were saying the GABA state. Earlier you were saying the GABA increased from the ketosis. increased from the ketosis. increased from the ketosis. >> I think more and more we're just >> I think more and more we're just >> I think more and more we're just realizing that people have differing realizing that people have differing realizing that people have differing levels of excitatory to inhibitory levels of excitatory to inhibitory levels of excitatory to inhibitory balance in the brain. And so some people balance in the brain. And so some people balance in the brain. And so some people like things that bring GABA up, some like things that bring GABA up, some like things that bring GABA up, some people like things that bring glutamate people like things that bring glutamate people like things that bring glutamate up, broadly speaking. And finding that up, broadly speaking. And finding that up, broadly speaking. And finding that sweet spot is where you go, oh, like I'm sweet spot is where you go, oh, like I'm sweet spot is where you go, oh, like I'm alert but calm, alert but calm, alert but calm, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> And that's what that's what >> And that's what that's what >> And that's what that's what >> that's what it does for me. Alert but >> that's what it does for me. Alert but >> that's what it does for me. Alert but calm. Great. And for me, I'm like, and I calm. Great. And for me, I'm like, and I calm. Great. And for me, I'm like, and I noticed that there was a few years ago, noticed that there was a few years ago, noticed that there was a few years ago, I really experimented with a ketogenic I really experimented with a ketogenic I really experimented with a ketogenic diet. I just can't do that type of diet. diet. I just can't do that type of diet. diet. I just can't do that type of diet. But I did experiment with it. And that But I did experiment with it. And that But I did experiment with it. And that was the one of the main things that I was the one of the main things that I was the one of the main things that I noticed is like I'm alert but calm. And noticed is like I'm alert but calm. And noticed is like I'm alert but calm. And it's like I liked it. it's like I liked it. it's like I liked it. >> Well, then don't take nicotine because >> Well, then don't take nicotine because >> Well, then don't take nicotine because the reason people like nicotine is it's the reason people like nicotine is it's the reason people like nicotine is it's a stimulant that calms you down. So, I a stimulant that calms you down. So, I a stimulant that calms you down. So, I do think that one of the reasons it's so do think that one of the reasons it's so do think that one of the reasons it's so habit forming is because I know of habit forming is because I know of habit forming is because I know of nothing else that puts you in that plane nothing else that puts you in that plane nothing else that puts you in that plane of focus of alert but calm. that is of focus of alert but calm. that is of focus of alert but calm. that is reasonably low cost, that is legal. I've reasonably low cost, that is legal. I've reasonably low cost, that is legal. I've never I'll come clear I've never done never I'll come clear I've never done never I'll come clear I've never done amphetamine or cocaine, so I'm not I I amphetamine or cocaine, so I'm not I I amphetamine or cocaine, so I'm not I I wouldn't want to. And clearly that's a wouldn't want to. And clearly that's a wouldn't want to. And clearly that's a path to destruction. So the reason so path to destruction. So the reason so path to destruction. So the reason so many young people are taking it is many young people are taking it is many young people are taking it is because it gets them right in that plane because it gets them right in that plane because it gets them right in that plane of alert but calm, but it has all these of alert but calm, but it has all these of alert but calm, but it has all these negative effects that go with it. negative effects that go with it. negative effects that go with it. >> Yeah. And that's why I have stayed away >> Yeah. And that's why I have stayed away >> Yeah. And that's why I have stayed away from it because I know I probably love from it because I know I probably love from it because I know I probably love it. it. it. >> I've asked some young folks who ask me >> I've asked some young folks who ask me >> I've asked some young folks who ask me about nicotine, how many milligrams are about nicotine, how many milligrams are about nicotine, how many milligrams are you taking? They'll say nine milligrams. you taking? They'll say nine milligrams. you taking? They'll say nine milligrams. They'll say, "How many times per day?" They'll say, "How many times per day?" They'll say, "How many times per day?" They'll say, "Eight times per day." I'm They'll say, "Eight times per day." I'm They'll say, "Eight times per day." I'm like, "Oh my god." Like, that's crazy. like, "Oh my god." Like, that's crazy. like, "Oh my god." Like, that's crazy. >> But they didn't start there, do you? >> But they didn't start there, do you? >> But they didn't start there, do you? >> No, you just quickly get there. >> No, you just quickly get there. >> No, you just quickly get there. >> You adapt. >> You adapt. >> You adapt. >> Yeah. So, I I >> Yeah. So, I I >> Yeah. So, I I >> you know, I I don't want to sound like >> you know, I I don't want to sound like >> you know, I I don't want to sound like that Kromagin that's like, "Don't drink that Kromagin that's like, "Don't drink that Kromagin that's like, "Don't drink and don't take nicotine and this kind of and don't take nicotine and this kind of and don't take nicotine and this kind of thing, but it's a it's a slippery slope, thing, but it's a it's a slippery slope, thing, but it's a it's a slippery slope, >> right?" Yeah. I mean, there's if there's >> right?" Yeah. I mean, there's if there's >> right?" Yeah. I mean, there's if there's other things that you can do that maybe other things that you can do that maybe other things that you can do that maybe it's not going to be as potent, but it's not going to be as potent, but it's not going to be as potent, but >> alpha GPC. >> alpha GPC. >> alpha GPC. >> Alpha GPC. I mean, for me, I like doing >> Alpha GPC. I mean, for me, I like doing >> Alpha GPC. I mean, for me, I like doing I like my my metabolic switch and and my I like my my metabolic switch and and my I like my my metabolic switch and and my ketones and ketones and ketones and >> Well, I'd be curious to to hear how you >> Well, I'd be curious to to hear how you >> Well, I'd be curious to to hear how you feel on the alpha GPC. feel on the alpha GPC. feel on the alpha GPC. >> I remember liking it. I I don't know >> I remember liking it. I I don't know >> I remember liking it. I I don't know why. I think I stopped taking it because why. I think I stopped taking it because why. I think I stopped taking it because I got pregnant is probably what it was. I got pregnant is probably what it was. I got pregnant is probably what it was. And then I It's one of those things And then I It's one of those things And then I It's one of those things where you just where you just where you just >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> forget you go back to the basics and >> forget you go back to the basics and >> forget you go back to the basics and then like the then like the then like the >> different experiment. >> different experiment. >> different experiment. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Before I came on here, I did put out a >> Before I came on here, I did put out a >> Before I came on here, I did put out a call for some questions to the world. call for some questions to the world. call for some questions to the world. >> Okay. rapid fire Q&A from the land of X >> Okay. rapid fire Q&A from the land of X >> Okay. rapid fire Q&A from the land of X and Instagram. Oh, this is this these and Instagram. Oh, this is this these and Instagram. Oh, this is this these are the students of the class of your are the students of the class of your are the students of the class of your class and this way I think about it. class and this way I think about it. class and this way I think about it. Actually, I wanted to ask about this. Actually, I wanted to ask about this. Actually, I wanted to ask about this. So, I'm so grateful that this person So, I'm so grateful that this person So, I'm so grateful that this person asked about nattokinise asked about nattokinise asked about nattokinise for improving blood lipid profiles. Is for improving blood lipid profiles. Is for improving blood lipid profiles. Is is it something you're interested in or is it something you're interested in or is it something you're interested in or have experimented with? It's not have experimented with? It's not have experimented with? It's not something that I've experimented with something that I've experimented with something that I've experimented with and I've been more interested in natto and I've been more interested in natto and I've been more interested in natto the nattokynese. I know some I I really the nattokynese. I know some I I really the nattokynese. I know some I I really would have to say I don't have enough would have to say I don't have enough would have to say I don't have enough data to really have an opinion on it. data to really have an opinion on it. data to really have an opinion on it. >> Okay. Well, I don't have enough data to >> Okay. Well, I don't have enough data to >> Okay. Well, I don't have enough data to have an opinion on it, but I take it have an opinion on it, but I take it have an opinion on it, but I take it anyway. A lot of questions about things anyway. A lot of questions about things anyway. A lot of questions about things we already talked about. So, coal we already talked about. So, coal we already talked about. So, coal plunge, um, etc. but an exceptional plunge, um, etc. but an exceptional plunge, um, etc. but an exceptional number of questions about microplastics number of questions about microplastics number of questions about microplastics and I know we touched into it but on a and I know we touched into it but on a and I know we touched into it but on a scale of 1 to 10 10 being like you're scale of 1 to 10 10 being like you're scale of 1 to 10 10 being like you're really concerned how concerned are you really concerned how concerned are you really concerned how concerned are you about microplastics for mental and about microplastics for mental and about microplastics for mental and physical health longevity just broadly physical health longevity just broadly physical health longevity just broadly speaking speaking speaking >> I would say I am less concerned about >> I would say I am less concerned about >> I would say I am less concerned about microplastics than I am about not microplastics than I am about not microplastics than I am about not getting the right nutrients and getting the right nutrients and getting the right nutrients and micronutrients from our from our foods micronutrients from our from our foods micronutrients from our from our foods because our body can because our body can because our body can >> detoxify at least some of the chemicals >> detoxify at least some of the chemicals >> detoxify at least some of the chemicals associated with them microplastics associated with them microplastics associated with them microplastics themselves. I mean, I guess it's not we themselves. I mean, I guess it's not we themselves. I mean, I guess it's not we don't really know what they're going to don't really know what they're going to don't really know what they're going to do long term, but I'm I'm concerned do long term, but I'm I'm concerned do long term, but I'm I'm concerned enough to try to avoid uh to sorry, enough to try to avoid uh to sorry, enough to try to avoid uh to sorry, limit my exposure to them as much as limit my exposure to them as much as limit my exposure to them as much as possible. possible. possible. >> So, you don't drink out of plastic water >> So, you don't drink out of plastic water >> So, you don't drink out of plastic water bottles? bottles? bottles? >> I mean, I try not to as much as >> I mean, I try not to as much as >> I mean, I try not to as much as possible. I mean, you know, I I possible. I mean, you know, I I possible. I mean, you know, I I definitely sure definitely sure definitely sure >> have to at some points, but um I I try >> have to at some points, but um I I try >> have to at some points, but um I I try not to. Yes. And when I do, I just not to. Yes. And when I do, I just not to. Yes. And when I do, I just realize it's the habit realize it's the habit realize it's the habit >> and you kind of have to let go. I mean, >> and you kind of have to let go. I mean, >> and you kind of have to let go. I mean, I know some people that like don't drink I know some people that like don't drink I know some people that like don't drink and like they like they're going to get and like they like they're going to get and like they like they're going to get their water from their food, their their water from their food, their their water from their food, their fruits while they're traveling. Pretty fruits while they're traveling. Pretty fruits while they're traveling. Pretty extreme. That's extreme. That's extreme. That's >> Yeah, but I think mental health is >> Yeah, but I think mental health is >> Yeah, but I think mental health is important. So, I mean, it's like is the important. So, I mean, it's like is the important. So, I mean, it's like is the stress of avoiding the microplastics stress of avoiding the microplastics stress of avoiding the microplastics worse than the actual little bit of worse than the actual little bit of worse than the actual little bit of microplastics you're being exposed to. microplastics you're being exposed to. microplastics you're being exposed to. It might be It might be It might be >> TSA is going to hate me, but I lost a >> TSA is going to hate me, but I lost a >> TSA is going to hate me, but I lost a bet two days ago to a member of our bet two days ago to a member of our bet two days ago to a member of our podcast team. He bet me, we bet that um podcast team. He bet me, we bet that um podcast team. He bet me, we bet that um I said one couldn't bring a Mountain I said one couldn't bring a Mountain I said one couldn't bring a Mountain Valley Spring Water uh bottle through Valley Spring Water uh bottle through Valley Spring Water uh bottle through security at the airport and he said that security at the airport and he said that security at the airport and he said that you absolutely can. And I said there's you absolutely can. And I said there's you absolutely can. And I said there's no way. So I made him a bet and I lost. no way. So I made him a bet and I lost. no way. So I made him a bet and I lost. He brought it through. He brought it through. He brought it through. >> Full of water. >> Full of water. >> Full of water. >> Full of water. You tell them it's for >> Full of water. You tell them it's for >> Full of water. You tell them it's for medical reasons. You don't have to state medical reasons. You don't have to state medical reasons. You don't have to state what they are. They open the cap. They what they are. They open the cap. They what they are. They open the cap. They take a sample out. They test it. So, take a sample out. They test it. So, take a sample out. They test it. So, there's a time constraint and it's going there's a time constraint and it's going there's a time constraint and it's going to create more jobs for TSA. Um, uh, to create more jobs for TSA. Um, uh, to create more jobs for TSA. Um, uh, sorry, that was sort of a joke, sort of sorry, that was sort of a joke, sort of sorry, that was sort of a joke, sort of not a joke. TSA has been, you know, in not a joke. TSA has been, you know, in not a joke. TSA has been, you know, in tricky circumstances lately. And he tricky circumstances lately. And he tricky circumstances lately. And he showed up at the at the gate with it and showed up at the at the gate with it and showed up at the at the gate with it and was like, "Here's your water." You was like, "Here's your water." You was like, "Here's your water." You absolutely can bring water through in absolutely can bring water through in absolutely can bring water through in glass vessels or whatever vessel, but glass vessels or whatever vessel, but glass vessels or whatever vessel, but they're going to test it and it helps if they're going to test it and it helps if they're going to test it and it helps if it's a commercial vessel. It's not like it's a commercial vessel. It's not like it's a commercial vessel. It's not like your own glass water bottle. Can I pause your own glass water bottle. Can I pause your own glass water bottle. Can I pause for a minute because you mentioned a for a minute because you mentioned a for a minute because you mentioned a specific brand which I also when I when specific brand which I also when I when specific brand which I also when I when I I I >> I don't make money from >> I don't make money from >> I don't make money from >> same I I I drink when I'm traveling >> same I I I drink when I'm traveling >> same I I I drink when I'm traveling that's that's the brand that I go to and that's that's the brand that I go to and that's that's the brand that I go to and there are there was a study that came there are there was a study that came there are there was a study that came out showing that there's actually a out showing that there's actually a out showing that there's actually a larger uh volume of microplastics in larger uh volume of microplastics in larger uh volume of microplastics in within this study in from glass bottles within this study in from glass bottles within this study in from glass bottles versus plastic bottles which was a very versus plastic bottles which was a very versus plastic bottles which was a very shocking finding. shocking finding. shocking finding. >> Um so there's more microplastic number >> Um so there's more microplastic number >> Um so there's more microplastic number coming from the the glass bottles. Turns coming from the the glass bottles. Turns coming from the the glass bottles. Turns out, this was a study out of uh France. out, this was a study out of uh France. out, this was a study out of uh France. There was a study out of France and also There was a study out of France and also There was a study out of France and also in the US. It's the paint on the lids. in the US. It's the paint on the lids. in the US. It's the paint on the lids. You mentioned the lid. And so, it's the You mentioned the lid. And so, it's the You mentioned the lid. And so, it's the paint on the lid that's contaminating paint on the lid that's contaminating paint on the lid that's contaminating getting contaminated in the bottling of getting contaminated in the bottling of getting contaminated in the bottling of the the whole bottling of this, you the the whole bottling of this, you the the whole bottling of this, you know, water that is getting into the know, water that is getting into the know, water that is getting into the water. But I do want to mention that the water. But I do want to mention that the water. But I do want to mention that the size was was shown to be larger from the size was was shown to be larger from the size was was shown to be larger from the glass bottles versus the plastic. So, glass bottles versus the plastic. So, glass bottles versus the plastic. So, the microplastic size was larger. And as the microplastic size was larger. And as the microplastic size was larger. And as you probably know, larger microplastics you probably know, larger microplastics you probably know, larger microplastics are not well absorbed through the gut are not well absorbed through the gut are not well absorbed through the gut epithelial cells. So when you're, you epithelial cells. So when you're, you epithelial cells. So when you're, you know, taking them in in the gut, they're know, taking them in in the gut, they're know, taking them in in the gut, they're coming out, they're being excreted coming out, they're being excreted coming out, they're being excreted through your your feces and um less through your your feces and um less through your your feces and um less likely to be taken up into your gut and likely to be taken up into your gut and likely to be taken up into your gut and then get into your body. And that's then get into your body. And that's then get into your body. And that's actually well known. And so I'm actually actually well known. And so I'm actually actually well known. And so I'm actually more concerned about the size of more concerned about the size of more concerned about the size of microplastics. microplastics. microplastics. >> Um and it wasn't like the huge orders of >> Um and it wasn't like the huge orders of >> Um and it wasn't like the huge orders of magnitude difference between the the magnitude difference between the the magnitude difference between the the water from glass versus the plastic. It water from glass versus the plastic. It water from glass versus the plastic. It it's so counterintuitive. You think, it's so counterintuitive. You think, it's so counterintuitive. You think, wait, what? Why is it? So, it's it's the wait, what? Why is it? So, it's it's the wait, what? Why is it? So, it's it's the paint that's on the lids. But anyways, I paint that's on the lids. But anyways, I paint that's on the lids. But anyways, I just want to mention that I still drink just want to mention that I still drink just want to mention that I still drink when I'm traveling. I still go for the when I'm traveling. I still go for the when I'm traveling. I still go for the glass, not the plastic because of the glass, not the plastic because of the glass, not the plastic because of the size of the microplastics. And knowing size of the microplastics. And knowing size of the microplastics. And knowing because the size was much bigger um that because the size was much bigger um that because the size was much bigger um that it's very I would say more data is going it's very I would say more data is going it's very I would say more data is going to come out on this, but I would be to come out on this, but I would be to come out on this, but I would be surprised if you're absorbing more of surprised if you're absorbing more of surprised if you're absorbing more of the larger particles because it's known the larger particles because it's known the larger particles because it's known that you absorb the smaller ones. that you absorb the smaller ones. that you absorb the smaller ones. >> Thank you for that. And if you want, you >> Thank you for that. And if you want, you >> Thank you for that. And if you want, you can now take your glass bottle through can now take your glass bottle through can now take your glass bottle through security full seed oils. the dreaded security full seed oils. the dreaded security full seed oils. the dreaded seed oil debate. Where do you land on seed oil debate. Where do you land on seed oil debate. Where do you land on this? this? this? >> I try to avoid them. Um, mostly because >> I try to avoid them. Um, mostly because >> I try to avoid them. Um, mostly because one, if you're avoiding seed oils, one, if you're avoiding seed oils, one, if you're avoiding seed oils, you're going to avoid a lot of the you're going to avoid a lot of the you're going to avoid a lot of the processed packaged foods that they come processed packaged foods that they come processed packaged foods that they come in, which I know are terrible for you. in, which I know are terrible for you. in, which I know are terrible for you. Two, because I think that cooking them Two, because I think that cooking them Two, because I think that cooking them or heating them, I mean, is more of my or heating them, I mean, is more of my or heating them, I mean, is more of my concern because they are, you know, concern because they are, you know, concern because they are, you know, polyunsaturated fatty acids which are polyunsaturated fatty acids which are polyunsaturated fatty acids which are very prone to oxidation. And when you're very prone to oxidation. And when you're very prone to oxidation. And when you're heating something that's prone to heating something that's prone to heating something that's prone to oxidation, you're accelerating that oxidation, you're accelerating that oxidation, you're accelerating that whole process. I don't want to consume whole process. I don't want to consume whole process. I don't want to consume oxidized lipids. I've seen I've looked oxidized lipids. I've seen I've looked oxidized lipids. I've seen I've looked into that literature and the last time I into that literature and the last time I into that literature and the last time I looked into it was I think 2024. looked into it was I think 2024. looked into it was I think 2024. At that time, I was pretty convinced At that time, I was pretty convinced At that time, I was pretty convinced that if you are heating and reheating, that if you are heating and reheating, that if you are heating and reheating, you know, oils like they do in fast you know, oils like they do in fast you know, oils like they do in fast food, for sure, you're increasing food, for sure, you're increasing food, for sure, you're increasing inflammatory markers. That's been shown. inflammatory markers. That's been shown. inflammatory markers. That's been shown. And I think also when you're really And I think also when you're really And I think also when you're really having a higher level of, you know, having a higher level of, you know, having a higher level of, you know, omega sixs and stuff around, I'm not as omega sixs and stuff around, I'm not as omega sixs and stuff around, I'm not as concerned because I'm getting a lot of concerned because I'm getting a lot of concerned because I'm getting a lot of omega-3, but it does also um increase omega-3, but it does also um increase omega-3, but it does also um increase your vitamin E requirements as well your vitamin E requirements as well your vitamin E requirements as well because of the oxidation of these because of the oxidation of these because of the oxidation of these polyunsaturated fatty acids. So, do I polyunsaturated fatty acids. So, do I polyunsaturated fatty acids. So, do I think it's like like the worst ever? I think it's like like the worst ever? I think it's like like the worst ever? I mean, you can find all this data out mean, you can find all this data out mean, you can find all this data out there showing that, you know, if you there showing that, you know, if you there showing that, you know, if you replace, you know, saturated fat with replace, you know, saturated fat with replace, you know, saturated fat with some of these seed oils, there's some of these seed oils, there's some of these seed oils, there's improvements in lipid profiles. But at improvements in lipid profiles. But at improvements in lipid profiles. But at the end of the day, the question is the end of the day, the question is the end of the day, the question is really what if like you had olive oil really what if like you had olive oil really what if like you had olive oil instead or avocado oil and say, would it instead or avocado oil and say, would it instead or avocado oil and say, would it be even better? be even better? be even better? >> I think possibly. So if you're really >> I think possibly. So if you're really >> I think possibly. So if you're really trying to go for the optimal I avoid trying to go for the optimal I avoid trying to go for the optimal I avoid them as much as I can for that reason. them as much as I can for that reason. them as much as I can for that reason. But I think there's a little bit more But I think there's a little bit more But I think there's a little bit more hype when it comes to the seed oil. hype when it comes to the seed oil. hype when it comes to the seed oil. >> But if that makes sense, you know, I'm >> But if that makes sense, you know, I'm >> But if that makes sense, you know, I'm kind of that's my that's my take. kind of that's my that's my take. kind of that's my that's my take. >> Makes sense to me. Um for what it's >> Makes sense to me. Um for what it's >> Makes sense to me. Um for what it's worth, I stick to olive oil and small worth, I stick to olive oil and small worth, I stick to olive oil and small amounts of butter and that's because I amounts of butter and that's because I amounts of butter and that's because I also think seed oils taste terrible. How also think seed oils taste terrible. How also think seed oils taste terrible. How come no one talks about that? But come no one talks about that? But come no one talks about that? But anyway, and olive oil and butter are anyway, and olive oil and butter are anyway, and olive oil and butter are delicious. It's been so long since I've delicious. It's been so long since I've delicious. It's been so long since I've actually like I mean actually like I mean actually like I mean >> had the you know seed oil but yeah >> had the you know seed oil but yeah >> had the you know seed oil but yeah >> you know and no one can convince me that >> you know and no one can convince me that >> you know and no one can convince me that they don't taste bad to me. So then the they don't taste bad to me. So then the they don't taste bad to me. So then the debate just kind of falls away. How debate just kind of falls away. How debate just kind of falls away. How often are you doing the sauna nowadays often are you doing the sauna nowadays often are you doing the sauna nowadays and what is the top contour of that and what is the top contour of that and what is the top contour of that protocol look like? protocol look like? protocol look like? >> So I've taken a little pause on the >> So I've taken a little pause on the >> So I've taken a little pause on the sauna right now but typically I'm doing sauna right now but typically I'm doing sauna right now but typically I'm doing I was doing it like I would say five I was doing it like I would say five I was doing it like I would say five nights a week. And I say nights cuz I nights a week. And I say nights cuz I nights a week. And I say nights cuz I was usually doing them in the night. And was usually doing them in the night. And was usually doing them in the night. And it was mixed a mixture between either it was mixed a mixture between either it was mixed a mixture between either getting in the sauna or hot tub. So I getting in the sauna or hot tub. So I getting in the sauna or hot tub. So I like I like getting in the hot tub, head like I like getting in the hot tub, head like I like getting in the hot tub, head out under the stars there with my out under the stars there with my out under the stars there with my husband. It's like our time. husband. It's like our time. husband. It's like our time. >> Um so yeah, usually it's like 20 minutes >> Um so yeah, usually it's like 20 minutes >> Um so yeah, usually it's like 20 minutes and temperature- wise, you know, I don't and temperature- wise, you know, I don't and temperature- wise, you know, I don't go that hot. I honestly I'm like 180. go that hot. I honestly I'm like 180. go that hot. I honestly I'm like 180. >> Five nights a week is great. Gosh, I >> Five nights a week is great. Gosh, I >> Five nights a week is great. Gosh, I need to get back on a five night a week need to get back on a five night a week need to get back on a five night a week hot tub protocol. hot tub protocol. hot tub protocol. >> I do like the hot tub especially. I >> I do like the hot tub especially. I >> I do like the hot tub especially. I don't I know there's something about don't I know there's something about don't I know there's something about being outside and I think now there's being outside and I think now there's being outside and I think now there's just there there's evidence that the just there there's evidence that the just there there's evidence that the benefits are really like the same. It's benefits are really like the same. It's benefits are really like the same. It's the deliberate heat exposure, right? the deliberate heat exposure, right? the deliberate heat exposure, right? You're getting that you're getting that You're getting that you're getting that You're getting that you're getting that through the hot tub or through the through the hot tub or through the through the hot tub or through the sauna. sauna. sauna. >> Creatine for kids like young kids like >> Creatine for kids like young kids like >> Creatine for kids like young kids like younger than 16. Um any data andor ideas younger than 16. Um any data andor ideas younger than 16. Um any data andor ideas about this good or bad? about this good or bad? about this good or bad? >> Yeah. So there is data in the literature >> Yeah. So there is data in the literature >> Yeah. So there is data in the literature showing that if you give younger younger showing that if you give younger younger showing that if you give younger younger children that are doing like for example children that are doing like for example children that are doing like for example sports like soccer sports like soccer sports like soccer it does seem to improve their agility it does seem to improve their agility it does seem to improve their agility and it seems to be safe. I do give my and it seems to be safe. I do give my and it seems to be safe. I do give my son 2 and a half grams of creatine so a son 2 and a half grams of creatine so a son 2 and a half grams of creatine so a day. day. day. >> Cool. >> Cool. >> Cool. >> So that's how I feel. >> So that's how I feel. >> So that's how I feel. >> There's no better uh indication of how >> There's no better uh indication of how >> There's no better uh indication of how you of how one feels and what they're you of how one feels and what they're you of how one feels and what they're willing to um deliberately give their willing to um deliberately give their willing to um deliberately give their kids. I don't know where this stems from kids. I don't know where this stems from kids. I don't know where this stems from and we can cut it if you want. This um and we can cut it if you want. This um and we can cut it if you want. This um someone asked, "Why did you someone asked, "Why did you someone asked, "Why did you single-handedly ruin bananas?" single-handedly ruin bananas?" single-handedly ruin bananas?" >> Oh, >> Oh, >> Oh, >> for this person. Yes. Uh did did you >> for this person. Yes. Uh did did you >> for this person. Yes. Uh did did you ruin bananas? ruin bananas? ruin bananas? >> So, I used to put bananas in my >> So, I used to put bananas in my >> So, I used to put bananas in my smoothies. And there's an there's an smoothies. And there's an there's an smoothies. And there's an there's an enzyme that is produced in bananas that enzyme that is produced in bananas that enzyme that is produced in bananas that break down polyphenols, particularly break down polyphenols, particularly break down polyphenols, particularly ones that are found in blueberries. And ones that are found in blueberries. And ones that are found in blueberries. And the reason I was getting my smoothies the reason I was getting my smoothies the reason I was getting my smoothies was one for the greens, but two for the was one for the greens, but two for the was one for the greens, but two for the blueberries because the polyphenols have blueberries because the polyphenols have blueberries because the polyphenols have been shown to improve cognition. Love been shown to improve cognition. Love been shown to improve cognition. Love blueberries. So, um sorry, sorry. Don't blueberries. So, um sorry, sorry. Don't blueberries. So, um sorry, sorry. Don't mix the blueberry with the banana mix the blueberry with the banana mix the blueberry with the banana smoothie because it it has been shown to smoothie because it it has been shown to smoothie because it it has been shown to decrease the the polyphenols which are decrease the the polyphenols which are decrease the the polyphenols which are important. important. important. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, the alcohol industry >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, the alcohol industry >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, the alcohol industry will come for me someday and the banana will come for me someday and the banana will come for me someday and the banana industry will come for you and uh I industry will come for you and uh I industry will come for you and uh I think we're safe for a while. Um think we're safe for a while. Um think we're safe for a while. Um should we ignore studies that have less should we ignore studies that have less should we ignore studies that have less than x number of subjects? I think than x number of subjects? I think than x number of subjects? I think that's a really good question. And like that's a really good question. And like that's a really good question. And like obviously it depends, but when we're obviously it depends, but when we're obviously it depends, but when we're talking about human studies, where's the talking about human studies, where's the talking about human studies, where's the the line for small study versus large the line for small study versus large the line for small study versus large meaningful study for you? Obviously, how meaningful study for you? Obviously, how meaningful study for you? Obviously, how strongly it's powered, but how do you strongly it's powered, but how do you strongly it's powered, but how do you think about that? think about that? think about that? >> Well, I'll tell you when I was first >> Well, I'll tell you when I was first >> Well, I'll tell you when I was first looking at the sauna literature, looking at the sauna literature, looking at the sauna literature, all the studies that I were looking at all the studies that I were looking at all the studies that I were looking at were like N of 10 or smaller. And it's were like N of 10 or smaller. And it's were like N of 10 or smaller. And it's really the aggregate of those studies really the aggregate of those studies really the aggregate of those studies and then looking at like animal data. and then looking at like animal data. and then looking at like animal data. And then you start to, you know, you And then you start to, you know, you And then you start to, you know, you start to look at observational data and start to look at observational data and start to look at observational data and the totality of evidence and you put the totality of evidence and you put the totality of evidence and you put together this picture. I don't think you together this picture. I don't think you together this picture. I don't think you should ignore studies that are small. I should ignore studies that are small. I should ignore studies that are small. I think that it's part of the story. I think that it's part of the story. I think that it's part of the story. I think we're getting a little too caught think we're getting a little too caught think we're getting a little too caught up in it's got to be the randomized up in it's got to be the randomized up in it's got to be the randomized placebo control trial. It's got to have placebo control trial. It's got to have placebo control trial. It's got to have lot lots of participants. And I mean lot lots of participants. And I mean lot lots of participants. And I mean that's great if we have that data, but that's great if we have that data, but that's great if we have that data, but we don't always have that data. And I we don't always have that data. And I we don't always have that data. And I don't know that we will always have that don't know that we will always have that don't know that we will always have that data with everything that we're data with everything that we're data with everything that we're interested in in understanding, right? interested in in understanding, right? interested in in understanding, right? So the way I look at it is if it's like So the way I look at it is if it's like So the way I look at it is if it's like just one study with an N of 10. Okay, just one study with an N of 10. Okay, just one study with an N of 10. Okay, interesting. Um like with the creatine, interesting. Um like with the creatine, interesting. Um like with the creatine, right? Like I mean these studies have right? Like I mean these studies have right? Like I mean these studies have been small sample sizes. Now there's been small sample sizes. Now there's been small sample sizes. Now there's more than one, more than one, more than one, >> but you know at the end of the day it's >> but you know at the end of the day it's >> but you know at the end of the day it's still very I would say in this, you still very I would say in this, you still very I would say in this, you know, pilot study phase, right? We have know, pilot study phase, right? We have know, pilot study phase, right? We have just small studies. So I I do not ignore just small studies. So I I do not ignore just small studies. So I I do not ignore them, but I also don't hedge all my bets them, but I also don't hedge all my bets them, but I also don't hedge all my bets on them either. I do know that there on them either. I do know that there on them either. I do know that there were a lot of people that were were a lot of people that were were a lot of people that were criticizing me on my sauna. I mean, back criticizing me on my sauna. I mean, back criticizing me on my sauna. I mean, back in I, you know, 2014, published an in I, you know, 2014, published an in I, you know, 2014, published an article on Tim Ferrris's blog, went on article on Tim Ferrris's blog, went on article on Tim Ferrris's blog, went on Joe Rogan's podcast and talked about, Joe Rogan's podcast and talked about, Joe Rogan's podcast and talked about, you know, the benefits of sauna and and you know, the benefits of sauna and and you know, the benefits of sauna and and I had people that were going, "Your I had people that were going, "Your I had people that were going, "Your studies, your sample sizes are too studies, your sample sizes are too studies, your sample sizes are too small." And now we have so much data small." And now we have so much data small." And now we have so much data that have come out since then, really that have come out since then, really that have come out since then, really kind of validating everything and and kind of validating everything and and kind of validating everything and and showing even more benefits. you kind of showing even more benefits. you kind of showing even more benefits. you kind of have to look at the totality of evidence have to look at the totality of evidence have to look at the totality of evidence and and what is it you're what endpoints and and what is it you're what endpoints and and what is it you're what endpoints are you looking at and how can you are you looking at and how can you are you looking at and how can you gather you know data from different gather you know data from different gather you know data from different sources whether it's clinical studies or sources whether it's clinical studies or sources whether it's clinical studies or observational studies or animal studies observational studies or animal studies observational studies or animal studies and and try to come up with the bigger and and try to come up with the bigger and and try to come up with the bigger picture right but then also don't be too picture right but then also don't be too picture right but then also don't be too confident in your statements confident in your statements confident in your statements >> I'm very gratified to know that pretty >> I'm very gratified to know that pretty >> I'm very gratified to know that pretty much every other question you addressed much every other question you addressed much every other question you addressed the answer to and route to where we are the answer to and route to where we are the answer to and route to where we are now in the podcast truly and I'll leave now in the podcast truly and I'll leave now in the podcast truly and I'll leave them up so you can see them later if you them up so you can see them later if you them up so you can see them later if you choose choose choose co-plunches uh notwithstanding um co-plunches uh notwithstanding um co-plunches uh notwithstanding um vitamin D um exercise in all its contour vitamin D um exercise in all its contour vitamin D um exercise in all its contour specificity fasting uh magnesium specificity fasting uh magnesium specificity fasting uh magnesium lots of questions about supplements lots of questions about supplements lots of questions about supplements which we covered creatine lots of which we covered creatine lots of which we covered creatine lots of questions about inflammation longevity questions about inflammation longevity questions about inflammation longevity and so I just have to say first of all and so I just have to say first of all and so I just have to say first of all on behalf of everybody thank you so much on behalf of everybody thank you so much on behalf of everybody thank you so much this was really an incredible tutorial this was really an incredible tutorial this was really an incredible tutorial and so much of it is actionable and as and so much of it is actionable and as and so much of it is actionable and as you are known for it was incred you are known for it was incred you are known for it was incred incredibly thorough in terms of setting incredibly thorough in terms of setting incredibly thorough in terms of setting the context within mechanisms of what we the context within mechanisms of what we the context within mechanisms of what we know, what we still don't know. And uh I know, what we still don't know. And uh I know, what we still don't know. And uh I also personally want to thank you also personally want to thank you also personally want to thank you because when you speak, I learn. And because when you speak, I learn. And because when you speak, I learn. And when you speak, I also learn things that when you speak, I also learn things that when you speak, I also learn things that change my behavior. And that's a a whole change my behavior. And that's a a whole change my behavior. And that's a a whole other level. Uh since our last other level. Uh since our last other level. Uh since our last conversation, I can think of at least conversation, I can think of at least conversation, I can think of at least four and probably as many as a dozen four and probably as many as a dozen four and probably as many as a dozen things that I do on a daily basis as a things that I do on a daily basis as a things that I do on a daily basis as a consequence of that conversation. and consequence of that conversation. and consequence of that conversation. and just the gut inflammation health brain just the gut inflammation health brain just the gut inflammation health brain body axis uh conversation that we had body axis uh conversation that we had body axis uh conversation that we had earlier. I'm going to listen to this earlier. I'm going to listen to this earlier. I'm going to listen to this again and take notes because um there's again and take notes because um there's again and take notes because um there's just so much there uh and the metabolic just so much there uh and the metabolic just so much there uh and the metabolic flexibility thing as an input that can flexibility thing as an input that can flexibility thing as an input that can come from multiple sources on and on. come from multiple sources on and on. come from multiple sources on and on. So, thank you for doing what you do. So, thank you for doing what you do. So, thank you for doing what you do. Thank you for being you, for being first Thank you for being you, for being first Thank you for being you, for being first in and still going and doing things with in and still going and doing things with in and still going and doing things with such rigor and and really so much grace. such rigor and and really so much grace. such rigor and and really so much grace. It's it's just awesome. People love you. It's it's just awesome. People love you. It's it's just awesome. People love you. Um, I certainly do and appreciate you Um, I certainly do and appreciate you Um, I certainly do and appreciate you and and it's just um it it's a wonderful and and it's just um it it's a wonderful and and it's just um it it's a wonderful thing for me to have a colleague like thing for me to have a colleague like thing for me to have a colleague like you and you really set the standard. So, you and you really set the standard. So, you and you really set the standard. So, thank you so much for coming here and thank you so much for coming here and thank you so much for coming here and doing this marathon and uh can't wait to doing this marathon and uh can't wait to doing this marathon and uh can't wait to do it again. do it again. do it again. >> Thank you so much, Andrew. It's it's >> Thank you so much, Andrew. It's it's >> Thank you so much, Andrew. It's it's really been great. I learned so much really been great. I learned so much really been great. I learned so much from you as well and appreciate from you as well and appreciate from you as well and appreciate everything. everything. everything. >> Thank you. Thank you for joining me for >> Thank you. Thank you for joining me for >> Thank you. Thank you for joining me for today's discussion with Dr. Rhonda today's discussion with Dr. Rhonda today's discussion with Dr. Rhonda Patrick. To learn more about her work, Patrick. To learn more about her work, Patrick. To learn more about her work, please see the links in the show not please see the links in the show not please see the links in the show not captions. If you're learning from and or captions. If you're learning from and or captions. If you're learning from and or enjoying this podcast, please subscribe enjoying this podcast, please subscribe enjoying this podcast, please subscribe to our YouTube channel. 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