The 5 Types of People Who Will Never Build Muscle (Which One Are You?) | Mind Pump 2861

Key Takeaway

Building muscle requires mastering exercises as skills, not constantly changing them. Focus on 2-3 compound movements like squats and Romanian deadlifts for weeks at a time instead of switching exercises every workout. Practice builds proficiency, which allows you to actually trigger muscle growth instead of just going through motions. Progress comes from skill development, not variety.

Episode Overview

This episode breaks down the five common mistakes that prevent people from building muscle: constantly changing exercises (Confusion Carl), not training with enough intensity (Easy Stevie), doing too much volume (Too Much Mike), under-eating to stay lean (Stay Shredded Sally), and inconsistent weekend habits (Weekend Warrior Wally). The hosts share personal stories of making these mistakes and explain why consistency, progressive overload, adequate calories, and proper recovery are essential for muscle growth.

Full Transcript

Transcript of The 5 Types of People Who Will Never Build Muscle (Which One Are You?) | Mind Pump 2861 from Mind Pump Show. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

There are five types of people that just can't build muscle. There's confusion. Carl, he just changes up exercises all the time. Doesn't practice one enough to get good at it. You got easy Stevie. Stops the exercises way too soon. Doesn't push himself enough to trigger any muscle growth. You got too much Mike. Lots of exercises, lots of sets, lots of volume. Always in breakdown, never rebuilding. You have stay shredded Sally. She just won't eat enough to allow her body to build muscle. Does everything right, just eats too little.

And then you got weekend warrior Wall-E. Monday through Friday, crushes it on the weekend, doesn't sleep great, and has a terrible diet. Those people just won't build any muscle. I feel like Let's discuss. I feel like I've been all of the at some point. I think I've been all for sure. Confusion, Carl. I think I was stuck in that. Too much mic over here. Well, let's break down Let's break them down a little bit. Let's get deeper into why these people don't build muscles. Well, yeah, confusion.

Carl is like a muscle confusion guy, right? That was uh was popular um as we were coming up and the thought process was the Beach Body method. If you were constantly uh confusing your body with different movements and exercises that that was the way to stimulate growth and uh I fell for this trap so much that I used to brag about never repeating a workout. Yeah. That was that was my my idea of idea of idea of now to your defense uh Adam um the more uh experienced and advanced you are the more you can get away with uh something like this.

So I'll explain, right? So uh and this might this might make it sound easy. Uh when you look at an exercise, there's a potential of results you can get from that exercise. Let's just say so let's say that there's a chart and you've got a barbell squat on there and the barbell squat can produce anywhere between 1 to 10 in terms of results. But the or in order to get to the 10, you have to be able to perform the squat really well. You have to have good technique, good skill.

You have to have your central nervous system will have to fire in a way to where you could really maximize leverage, biomechanics, safety, so the muscle fibers actually get the stimulus. It's not just learning the exercises. Now I'm at the point where I'm pushing my muscles in a way to where they're going to grow. Um, that doesn't happen if you go from exercise to exercise to exercise to exercise. You don't give yourself enough time to get good at the exercise to reap the benefits. Now with people who are really advanced, uh, this is less of an issue.

It's still an issue, but it's less of an issue because you're so well trained that you can perform most exercises pretty well. Maybe the more more skillful ones might you still need to practice a little bit, but you know when you when you were competing as a physique competitor, you've been working out for so many years. You could pretty much hop on any machine. Yeah. And do it well. That's not when I was confusing Carl, though. I was confusing Carl when and where it didn't serve me was I missed out on getting really good at movements like the deadlift, like the squat, like the overhead press.

and they would intermittently make it into my workouts, but they would never be in there consistently for 3 to 5 weeks ever. I mean, it would be once every once every couple weeks it would make its way in there at best and then I'd be moving on. And I was constantly doing, you know, one arm, you know, Bosu ball chest press and then do, you know, just doing stuff that was wild and different every workout that was challenging. And I I'd say it kept me in it kept me in shape.

So, I was uh so that that would be the plus of it was um you're still moving. still moving. still moving. Yeah. I was functional. Uh I was relatively strong, but I wasn't really strong. Um but I I I really had pl what I wanted at that point in my life was more muscle. I wanted to to build more muscle muscle muscle and I wasn't building much more muscle. I was I was I was just kind of maintaining Yeah. I was kind of maintaining a good shape.

And shape. And shape. And I would Yeah. I would say too like the um Orange Theories and like some of those classes, they kind of bank off of that mentality where it's like we're going to introduce you with you know like these wild exercise or we're going to do this uh experience version of workouts and it's like we keep them coming back that way. So it's like a hack to kind of get you know people to stay interested but at the same time you're not really moving forward at all.

Yeah. I I thankfully I have a lot of these uh I had a lot of challenges. Thankfully, this one I figured out early because I had the privilege of uh working out next to a group of powerlifterss who taught me uh like the deadlift, the squat, the bench, and kind of hammered into me in one workout. How important was it? Because they were so big. Of course, as a kid, I'm like, "Oh, you must know what you're talking about." about." about." And I saw incredible gains in my sophomore year of high school focusing on just a few lifts.

Uh I built all this more muscle than I had built before. And so, uh, and then from there, I never had access to tons and tons of machines, especially later on. I had a studio with, uh, basic free weights. And so, I was limited anyway. And so, this never was an issue for me or it wasn't for a long time, but this was an issue for my clients. What I mean by that is as a trainer, trainer, trainer, yeah, yeah, yeah, I always did this with them.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would do all Now, the issue, the reasoning wasn't necessarily that I thought it would give them better results, but rather I thought I had to entertain them with different exercises and stuff all the time. That was like the first half of my career as a trainer. The second half of my career as a trainer when I was way more effective. Like my clients got way better results. If you watch their workouts over the years, many of these clients I trained for years and years and years, they were the same.

They were boring. And my clients loved it because there's so much you can do within complex movements uh and working on technique and all that stuff. And they got the best results. best results. best results. Well, you just had to learn how to entertain them while they're doing the same mundane things. Well, that or you had to learn how to communicate why we were doing this. And I think that I I failed at that early on. I was, you know, I fell to the client telling you, "Can we do something different?" Like, "We already did this.

I don't like, can we do something else?" And like, okay. You know, and then picking up quickly like, "Oh, when I challenge them with these weird dynamic movements, they like it cuz it's hard and it's different and they've never had." And then it made me feel like, okay, I'm valuable because they couldn't they wouldn't know how to do this movement if I wasn't here. And so that's so I went through that phase as a trainer of training all my clients with all this weird [ __ ] I'll use an extreme example.

If you had somebody who wanted to develop their legs uh and their first year of training, let's say you could split them into two versions of themsel uh version one uh does 50 different exercises. So picks one each time they work out. So over 50 workouts, it's a different combination of exercises for the legs. The other person just does squats and Romanian deadlifts for the first year. That's it. You're just going to get good at squats and Romanian deadlifts. Do you know who's going to build way more muscle and strength?

Oh yeah, Oh yeah, Oh yeah, the squats and Romania. As boring as it sounds. And so this confusion Carl person person person misses out on so many gains because they forget that exercises are skills and they just go in and try to feel the burn and that's it. The next one, easy stevie. This is the person who is afraid of intensity. um they work out uh but then when the set gets kind of hard they stop or the workouts tend to look the same in terms of the same amount of resistance.

This was common when I would get a new client who would come to me and say they weren't getting great results. I'd ask them how long they've been working out. Oh, I've been working out for years. What does your workout look like? And then they would proceed to list the weight that they use for every exercise. Yeah. Oh, I start out with five pound dumbbell presses. Then I do 15 pound rows. I'm like, wait a minute. Is that what you always use? Oh, yeah. That's the weights that I always grab.

Yeah, of course you're not comfortable. Yeah, you're not training yourself with any intensity pressing yourself. That's right. These This was I I have like as you went through these, I like uh I could picture like a client, you know, and I the client I picture is and I had a couple clients like this that did a lot of the um at home workout videos, videos, videos, you know. Oh, yeah. And so there was like a series huge for Yeah. Yeah. But but I remember getting them and then them them being like, you know, they they obviously they hired me cuz they were trying to change and see see a difference and they hadn't.

And how long have you been lifting weights? Oh, I've been lifting weights for 35 years. Like whoa. Like but how long have you been consistent? I've been consistent. You know, three days a week this and that. Same video. Yeah. Yeah. And then you ask like what they were doing and and then they would exactly like you said, they would they would name an exercise and they would be able to tell you the weight that they do. It's like, oh, you've been doing that same weight, that same exercise for Yeah.

I think we're we're pretty well adapted. really missed the infomercial era. era. era. Yeah, we just missed it. That would have been a good time. I think I could have done that. I would have loved it. Yeah. But I think I you know what they were tapping into was daily activity. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So movement every day is good for you, but what they were missing was what uh your body needs to progress or build uh which is stress. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um and stress uh you got to risk it.

Intensity comes uh or intensity contributes to that. So next was too much mic. This one's really common with our listeners because we have a lot of fitness fanatics fitness fanatics fitness fanatics and this is just that if some is good, more is better. We probably address this the most I would say. Yeah. And it's I mean it's definitely hits home for me because this was my mentality cuz and that was really infused from coaching uh cuz a lot of the disciplines that you know you think will make you a great athlete like but it doesn't really translate once you just uh put that to weight training.

It's like you got to let your body adapt and recover and like there's a whole science to that that you know coaches just want to blast you through the whole thing with the most intensity. I intensity. I intensity. I I'm not sure I ever trained an ex aathlete that wasn't challenged with this. this. this. Oh yeah. Athletes in particular. Yeah. I don't I don't know if I ever trained somebody who who was an athlete for at least a portion of their life through high school even that didn't apply.

apply. apply. Well, that's because when you're competing, you're going like you're not you're supposed to go hard. You're supposed to go your hardest. Yeah. And so that's the gear that they live in. That's right. And it doesn't that's not how you exercise. Uh sometimes you exercise really really hard, but most of the time it's got to be appropriate. be appropriate. be appropriate. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And people who are in this category would be shocked at how great the results they would get from cutting their stuff in half.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In half. I'm not even saying like cut it down a little bit. Cut it in half. To Justin's point, uh I I find us we communicate this a lot on the podcast probably because there's a bit of a bias. If bias. If bias. If you choose to on your drive to work to listen to fitness dorks, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. you probably are pretty into fitness, right? So, we have people that are kind of we're not very rarely do we probably get introduced to somebody who's like not into fitness.

It's probably maybe a referral or something. Most people are choosing to listen to this, which means they're probably already hardcore already hardcore already hardcore skewed towards the Yeah. So that they they are skewed in that direction which is also why I think all the whole you know all the maps 15 programs that we've created have done so well is I think so many people finally after hearing us beating that drum okay I'll try it and they try it and then they're did you see in the forum in our forum there was somebody that posted they did maps 15 powerlift so for people aren't familiar familiar familiar I did see that and they hit PRs I saw I just read that yeah so maps that pumped me up our 15 style programs essentially are like two lifts a day is what it kind of breaks down to.

So, take you about 20 minutes or so, 15 to 20 minutes, maybe 25 if you have really long rest periods. That's it, right? And uh the person commenting was experienced. Uh they've been working out for a while. They've switched to this program and they're like, "Yep, I hit PRs." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. PRs. PRs. PRs. And they did our uh powerlift before that. that. that. Yes. They did the traditional power and then this one actually gave me way and most people will be shocked how well they respond.

Uh the stay shredded Sally. There's a reason why it's a female name. This is much more common among women than men. But it's just, yeah, I want to build, but I also want to see my abs. Or, yeah, I want to build, but I don't want to gain any weight. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I want to build, but you know, I'm scared of getting fat. Sort of the conflict of interest. Yeah. And you're just you're just not you're not going to build if you're if your calories are too low.

I don't care what you do. You can take steroids. You can take all the steroids in the world. Nothing's going to happen if your calories are too low. And uh what's shocking with this is I've had this happen a few times where I'm meeting with someone, female fitness fanatic wants to build uh and I talk to them about this. They get it they get a DEXA scan and come back and their bone mass mass mass is really low and they're shocked because they've been lifting weights for years.

years. years. Yeah. They've been getting after it. It's like you've been starving yourself for years. Even though you've been lifting weights which builds bone, you don't need enough. You won't build muscle and things start to weaken. Would you say that one of the main reasons for that is because in the process of building almost everybody has to go through a little bit of an uncomfortable stage of feeling heavier feeling water retention. Yeah. So like and and I think that and I think why a lot my a lot of my female clients struggle with that because very few clients that came in wanted to be bigger.

There was occasional uh client that I had but very rarely did I have a female client come in and says I need to be bigger. I need to weigh more. Um, and but yet they would want body parts to look better. I want a better butt. I want better legs. Yeah. I want my arms, shoulder, whatever. Uh, which requires us to be in a calorie surplus to build, uh, i.e. bulk. Um, and a lot of times during that process, there's a bit of an uncomfortable state.

You increase calories, so you're eating more than you're used to. You're now up probably in carbohydrates. You're up in water. or all those things start to make you feel like you're more bloated or you're you're carrying extra weight and feels your muscles are bigger. Yeah, your how many times you hear pants fitting tighter and stuff like that and they start freaking out cuz they want to be in that same it's just like you I think it's that that uncomfortable phase that's kind of required to do that.

You know what this reminds me of, Adam? Cuz I know you can relate to this. Uh cuz I was on the other end of the spectrum just like you were. I was always trying to get bigger. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so what always prevented me from really getting lean was feeling smaller. Yep. So I'd be I'd start to get leaner but then I'd feel smaller in my clothes and I'd reverse gears all the time. What's happening? Think well you get you are losing body fat so you are going to shrink a little.

I mean through my 20s or late teens early 20s every summer beginning of the summer was a quote unquote cut time for me and it would only ever last a few weeks totally weeks totally weeks totally and then I would fail because I would get so insecure with how I looked and felt like oh my god I'm I'm losing so much size. I'd rather be a little softer and bigger than I'd rather be shredded and lean and just that. It wasn't a sticker, but it was like a saying that was over our little weight room and it was like get big or die and we all like we all had that mentality.

I never let that go. Was this when you played football? Oh my gosh, dude. Yeah. So, it's like, you know, Yeah. I was never like into the whole cutting thing. And that's probably, you know, Yeah. 100%. Uh, and what's funny, what's ironic about this, by the way, is as a kid, when I finally did allow myself to get really, really lean, the comments I would get would be, "Wow, you look so much bigger." And then with my female clients, when they would let go of the feeling and I'd have them not weigh themselves on the scale, they'd come back to me and be like, "Okay, here's what's weird.

I feel bigger, but people at work are telling me like I lost weight, that I look like I lost weight." It's like, "Yeah, your body composition is changing." So it definitely feels you know I feel like that uh I mean you just gave the example of how we are the opposite of this but we're missing a name then we're missing a name for the person that's like you or I in this situation. So, it's not stay shredded Sally. It's like stay stay big something. Stay big.

But see, those people don't have issues with building muscle. They have issues with getting with getting with getting stay. Okay, that's a good point. Okay, that's a good point. Uh, and then we got weekend warrior Wall-E. And so, this is the person who their diet is good Monday through Thursday or Friday. Their workouts are pretty consistent. Friday night, Saturday night, I'm going out. I'm enjoying myself. The weekend, I eat whatever. I go to bed late. That's okay because I'm sleeping in. and they can't figure out why they're not building any muscle even though almost 50% of their week is dedicated to not being consistent and eating like garbage.

So, three out of seven days is I mean you're you're you're it's not half but it's a significant amount. Um and you'll throw yourself off enough on those three days uh to make it so that you're just kind of maintaining or getting no no progress. You know, we talk about uh how much uh I like wearables. This is where this came from for me. Oh, yeah. So, when uh when the body bug first came out, um I mean, I loved it for my clients, but it was so eye opening for myself.

Uh cuz I was definitely this person at this at this point. Like, I could not figure out for the life of me why. In fact, at that time in my life, I I thought for sure it was because all the guys on the cover of magazines were on steroids and I wasn't. was like, "Oh, that that's why, why, why, you know, that that's why they look like that. I can't you can't get like that until you get on steroids." Like, this this is the best you could look, you know, without that.

That was like I was convinced because I was a trainer. I understood macros. I knew how to train. I was doing all these and I was super dialed Monday to Friday. Yeah. Saturday and Sunday. and Sunday. and Sunday. I wouldn't I wouldn't go crazy. At least I didn't think I was going crazy off the rails, but if I went out and had some drinks on a night or two, I would. If we had pizza, that would be the time I sleep in. sleep in. sleep in.

So that and that and the and the body bug really uh shed light on what a a dramatic difference Monday through Friday activitywise, Friday activitywise, Friday activitywise, macro hitting wise that sat and Saturday and Sunday was enough to erase all the great work that I was doing. You're probably high calorie, low protein, no activity. That's right. High calorie, low protein, no activity. I'd sleep in till 10:00 in the morning, lay around, watch TV or football, football, football, order a pizza, do my whatever. And that and then the opposite on a training, you know, Monday or Tuesday, train 10 clients, you know, starting from 6:00 a.m., not stopping till 11:00 at I mean, I would be burning 5,000 calories.

So to to burn 5,000 during the week and and and nail my macros and then on Saturday and Sunday to only burn like 2,800 3,000 calories but then overcon eat like I was eating all week long. Another discipline too cuz it's like a lot easier if you're like regimented throughout your week like I got to go to work. I got to do this. You're you're on the move and then you know the weekend is like well you know I'm kick my feet up and then like it it kind of your your plan throughout the week goes out the window.

was the the birth of the term when the weekend for me came from was just and I realized that a lot of people were in this same trap like they could it didn't and it doesn't if you're if you're in it and you cuz you would the way you would convey this and clients have conveyed this to us before like hey how would you say your diet is oh I'm I got a pretty diet I'd say you got a I got a pretty diet I'd say you know 8020 or 9010 and they think of it as Monday through Friday is 80% and then the weekend's only like 20% right so I'd say I'm 80 80% I'm 100% % dialed in 20% I let my and so they it doesn't make it doesn't make sense to you uh how how much that can set you back and I swear that's been a huge shift for me is to realize that realize that realize that this one this for me the big one for me figuring this out was uh sleep uh because as a kid that too that too that too yeah because as a kid um in the summers often times I would go uh to work with my dad um and when I would do that we'd have to wake up early so I'd go to bed on time because otherwise to be dad, right?

But then if I didn't have to go to work the next day with my dad, it was summertime. I'd stay up super late, sleep in, and it wasn't until I had a summer where I was real consistent with sleep that I saw this progress. I was like, does it really make that big of a difference? Yeah, makes that big of a difference. difference. difference. Well, you add that factor into what I just said, too, of, you know, over consuming uh on bad calories, under consuming on what I need like protein, uh staying out Friday night at the the club or something like that.

You know what I'm saying? Not so throwing myself off. The combination of all that, I don't care how dialed in perfect you are Monday through Friday, it's enough to Well, here's the thing with building muscle. It's hard. Uh it's a slow hard process. You're you're you're telling your body you're going to require more nutrients uh and more resources to maintain. Your body doesn't want to do that unless it unless it thinks all the uh it can unless it has the right signal, the right food, and the right environment.

environment. environment. Um and if you don't create that, uh it's just not going to happen. Building muscle is definitely not an easy process. process. process. It's funny just looking at all the names like you chose for all this like how long that took. The last one kind of triggers me a little bit. I'll be honest because of that one dude who's like our rival quarterback Wall-E. All I can think of is weak ass Wall-E. That's what I want to call him. He just can't help you can't help to throw.

throw. throw. Screw that guy. Hey, can I tell you something, Adam? Yeah. I picked the name on purpose. I did, dude. I did. I was like, hey, this morning this morning I wrote this down in between sets. You know, when I'm working out, I'm like, "Oh, I'm going to write wall-ally down this trigger just did." Well, you triggered me. It totally did. All right. I got to bring up an old study I brought up once and I I read it again. It's the craziest. It's actually a wild study that um and there's been some other studies that have kind of supported this.

I've told you guys this was done in 2016. The the twin study that was done on uh red light therapy. Did I tell you about this? You guys remember this? This is so crazy, man. No. A twin study on it? Yes, dude. So, one of the the best study possible. Yeah, dude. One of the gold stand dude. So, great. So, one of the gold standards of um whenever you're using some kind of intervention is if you have twins because it's so hard to control for genetics.

Now, it's not perfect because twins can have different lifestyles and all that stuff, but when it's a simple intervention, uh like red light, red light's very simple. you're going to come to the lab. We're going to shine a red light on one of you and the other one we're not, you know, type of deal. It's beautiful cuz now we can look at we can rule out genetics and just say what did the red light actually do? And they also controlled the workout. So they took identical twins and they did a 12 week uh 12 weeks of strength training.

One of them got the red light therapy on their quadriceps post training. The other one got a placebo. So they just shined a light. Wasn't red light therapy. the the one who got the red light therapy uh had 20% uh muscle growth versus 5% in the placebo. So 15% more. more. more. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In 12 weeks, better performance, lower muscle damage markers, reduced delayed onset muscle soreness, favorable gene expression changes, so upregulated hypertrophy genes, downregulated inflammatory atrophy ones. This is it was just the red light.

That's wild. That's wild. That's wild. What did the 5% come from the placebo? Just the fact that believed in it. So that's the typical results would just be 5%. 5%. 5%. Yeah, dude. So 15% more. So to so to me four or four times, right? Four times the results by by being that which is I think that's being actually effective. Yeah, that's wild difference. So for people to know, what does what does that look like? Uh well, I guess we would have to put it in strength terms.

It'd be like you'll be able to do two or three more reps than the other guy. That's not nothing in 12 weeks. That's a big deal. Yeah. You guys stretch that out over a year. Yeah. Yeah. So imagine if you had like a Jew red light and your uh structure was after I train whatever body part or I would say this to make it more realistic. I have a lagging body part. I have a body part I've been focusing on. Every time I train that body part, I'm going to go to the red light therapy and shine the Jew light on it for, you know, 20 minutes.

20 minutes. 20 minutes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you're going to see better gains. Was it so crazy? Was it Aspri or who who was it that we know or Greenfield? was one of someone we know who did the who tested it where they they shine it on like one leg only to recover. to recover. to recover. People have done that and they said like boy it's like you can feel a huge difference has done a bunch of studies on it too but yeah I think it was Greenfield dude it's it's it's wild because it's one of the few things that'll build more muscle that's not like a hormone or a peptide or like do the same things that you're doing now.

Well, that's an easy way to test it, too. What I just said, like if you don't like cuz I mean that's a the hard part is like or maybe put it on a body part like a side that you need to bring up. That might be a good idea. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You go do you go do heavy squat like I know how I'm going to feel when I do heavy squats like on a day or whatever like that. Like okay, I know how sore I'm going to be.

Like you shine on one side and not the other. Like you'll feel you'll probably feel a big difference from left to right. I mean that's enough to to to start hobbling a little sell you on I mean you don't want to do that all the time but I mean enough to get like okay this is this is definitely I think if you have a garage gym you know what I would do cuz I have this in my bedroom and I I but if I put it in my garage you know what I would do is I would do it I wonder if this would work just in between sets so you don't have to send spend an additional I'm I'm waiting for the I'm waiting for yeah in three minutes in or two minutes in between sets boom shine it go work you know I people sent me uh you know I brought it up about the shower thing right so there's there's There's all these like knockoff ones that do like shower heads and it's not the No, I looked it up.

It's not the same power lumens and whatever that it's it's like it's nowhere near there's a certain fre there's a certain intensity frequency uh that you see in the studies. That's the one that JW uses. uses. uses. There's a lot of red light therapy panels and stuff that are out in the market and it's not only is it they're different which means they don't work. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's not like they work less, they just don't work. They're just like Christmas lights. You're just literally putting a red light.

light. light. Yeah. I want I want I'm waiting for the first like contractor who would build it into your like bathroom ceiling. I think that would be cool. I think it'd be cool. You come in, I could hit a switch and my whole bathroom just glows red. Turns on. Turns on. Turns on. Yeah. Because I mean, you're in you're in there naked. You're shower and getting ready and stuff like that. I'm in there. I'm in there for at least 15 to 30 minutes every day. Be so much easier to just get hit like that by like consistently.

Yeah. wondering like in a if you had like in a gym you have like your locker room and all that but then you just had like stalls booths with just like all red paneled out a lot of gyms are now I was so I think there's some gyms that have done that I've seen some uh like uh like group X type rooms where they have it where it's like when they're doing yoga and stuff like that where they Oh wow. Oh yeah. Yeah. Or they do do it like that type.

Are they the legit ones? I don't know. It might I don't know. It might just be ambiance. Yeah. They just put red bulbs in the Yeah. I don't I don't know what what brand they're using and the quality. So, for people who aren't familiar, the the the real uh red light there's again there's a certain uh radiation and whatever. By the way, it's not bad uh because well studied um like well studied the studies go back decades. But, um the way it works is it it ramps up mitochondrial function.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, for whatever reason, whatever cells it shines on, the uh the mitochondria works better. And so better working mitochondria means whatever your body's trying to do, it does better. Heal, skin looks better, hair grows back, uh, skin, you know, you get less stretch marks. Um, and then if you shine it on a muscle because it penetrates through. Doug just brought up the most effective red light therapy uses specific wavelengths 630 to 660 nanometers and 810 to 850 nanometers for near infrared for 10 to 20 minutes three times three to five times per week.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. Anyway, I got some uh You guys want to talk about UFO stuff? Like, as your beliefs changed this week or what? or what? or what? So, they're trickling. So, are you guys seeing what they're releasing? Uh, no. Well, I know that there was documents just released, right? Yeah. Yeah. What is in there? So, here's what's interesting to me. Uh, cuz a couple things. One, I think we could pretty reliably say that the government doesn't release anything it doesn't want us Yeah.

to see, of course. And they're all there that and there probably is some kind of a narrative or agenda agenda agenda ulterior motives like there's they're not just like hey guys we just want to show you cool things. So you're on that's what page I'm on. Yeah. I mean that's for sure right. I think cuz I was having this conversation with my friend and we're going back and forth. I'm like when's the last time that that that anybody that can legitimately explain any of it that like have disappeared like like like oh that's the crazy thing about those scientists.

Yeah. scientists. Yeah. scientists. Yeah. That's weird. Anyway, so so some theories. So, one theory I I heard this today and I thought that's interesting. They said the only reason why they'll trickle information out is to prevent uh people from getting too like like too excited, too much um what's the word I'm looking for? Uh people so they're going to slowly trickle it out, get people used to each piece and then make more and more. And they said the reason why they're doing this is because they know we're going to see more of these things in our neighborhoods and over us anyway.

And they're just trying to get us from to to stop to not freak out because guess what? We're gonna be seeing a lot of this stuff. this stuff. this stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so they're just trying to prepare. Do we freak out? I just I don't I I'm still on still on still on I thought we'd I think we'd freak out if people just started seeing them in their neighborhoods all over the place. I mean, uh Okay. If if it's if it's able to travel light years away to get to us, which I think we'd all agree, right?

Unless it's living in the ocean. It's interdimensional. It's interdimensional. It's interdimensional. Yeah. Or Yeah. Or interdimensional. So if it's So they have to be a pretty evolved species, more evolved than us. The likelihood that they're here to hurt us or attack us. They could have done it if they wanted to. So I don't think it's that scary. I think it's uh I think I don't think it's if it if it is and they're they're capable of doing that and they're that evolved unless they're and then even if they are I feel like if they're they're not just trying to kill you, bro.

They're trying to take away your salvation. So they got to convince you. I'm still sticking with that theory. I'm not Yeah, I'm not on the demon theory, dog. I don't think that's what it I don't think it's that at all. Like, so but anyway, that was one uh that that that that's the deal. Um so yeah, dude. So I don't know. I thought that was kind of interesting. Like are we going to start seeing more of this stuff and are they keeping us from freaking out?

out? out? Yeah. Well, the precursor being over in what the East Coast where they had like a few of those what they say they were like the size of like a VW bug or something like in the sky. Yeah. So, I mean, obviously they did it intentionally, so it just started to kind of socially condition everybody. Did you guys see this the star one that they released? It looked like Doug, maybe you could look it up, like UFO star. Did you see the one they released, the government released?

It looked like like a star, but not like an actual star. It was in the shape of a star and it was like floating around and they were Yeah, dude. It's It's pretty That's That's the one resembling an eight. Yeah, that one right there. right there. right there. What? What? What? Yeah, that's the government released that. that. that. Cool. star-shaped UFO uh video. That's weird. That's weird. That's weird. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. Well, yeah. How do you make movies now, you know? It's like everything's already happening in real life.

That bottom left one, Doug, is a clear picture that No, the bottom uh on your Yeah, right there. Look at that picture of it. Like, what is going on, dude? And they're releasing this kind of stuff. It's like a Christmas ornament just flying around. flying around. flying around. And And they're uh these officials are coming out saying, "Oh, nothing. You just wait. We got stuff that's going to it's going to blow your mind. Just wait for the probes." Yeah. No, leave us alone. I don't know, dude.

I'm not even watching any of it, dude. I honestly I've turned off like so much of this stuff, dude. It's so so lame. so lame. so lame. Yeah, it is. I I And every day, too, something hits me now in my feed that and I get pissed every time it does this. Like I Something catches me. I did it this morning. morning. morning. Suck you in. Yeah. And then it sucks me in and I'm watching for a minute and I realize I'm watching AI. watching AI.

watching AI. You know what it's like for me? Um, you know when you read a really good book and then like you watch like uh somebody like directs the movie of it and it sucks balls it like that's what reality is now. Like I I was like all excited about aliens and like Bigfoot and now it's just like super lame. lame. lame. Like they made the lamest version for us to tell to tell to tell what what could be okay this whole alien thing comes out.

What would be like the lamest story? like what what hap what what makes it like just w Oh, Oh, Oh, they're not your demons. Um that doesn't it doesn't fulfill that. I don't know. They're just stopping by. You know what I'm saying? I'm saying? I'm saying? Yeah. I mean, what how are they going to convince everybody other than like with something some kind of crazy force like to scare us? Scare is like scaring people's like a go-to. Maybe if they came out and find out that that they made it all up.

Maybe that the government came up. To me, that's the part that I think is coming. I think that it's made up. I think I think I think what if this I just think what if this I just think I'm thinking out loud. What if this is the government's way of showing the world the technology that we have without saying it's our technology? So, it's like how weird. Look what this does. You could totally just go in and out of your airspace. I mean, I lean more towards that than I do that there's these, you know, demons or aliens that are, you know, flying around and all these.

You know what's weird too to me? Why are all their spaceships differently designed? Why are they all One's like a VW bug, one's like a Christmas tree, one's like Why? Why are they all so different? The only thing I'm excited about is the lizard people. Like if that's real, that's awesome. That's there's more people coming out. I heard that, too. Here's what I want to know. Like, no way. Why is it the US just has information? Is the rest of the world like left out? Another another thing that's weird.

Is it dealing with us? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? Is anybody else like Yeah. Do they have all these all these all these Yeah. Why aren't other countries coming? Yeah, dude. Yeah, dude. Yeah, dude. I don't know. They're busy. That's why I don't buy it, dude. They're not trying to distract everybody from corruption. from corruption. from corruption. Hey, did you see Sorry, I switched gears on your alien talk, but did you see the I sent over an article um our our buddy um you know Casey, he does the he does the you he's got that great sports YouTube channel.

He's been on the show a couple times. Called in with his wife one time. one time. one time. He sent me over an article. He's like, "Hey, you guys might enjoy uh this." And he and he goes, "I'm curious to hear your opinion." And there's a uh a college basketball player at Kansas. Oh, you sent this to me. Yeah, I sent it over because I just I wanted to hear your opinion on it. Right. So, uh Darren Peterson and blame. So, he's been he's been getting uh full body cramps uh so bad he locks all up and uh tested his blood afterwards and instead of like like high creatine levels with that and so blaming that and he his whole life he hadn't really taken creatine.

when he comes to Kansas, part of the, you know, sports nutrition guy and stuff puts all the athletes on high doses of creatine. And so the claim is that it's creatine's fault that this is happening. happening. happening. So the theory was it hydrates your sales cells. So that that that kind of So here was that's an old it's actually an old myth. So the and I'll hydrating I'll break it down. So what they the theory was when creatine first hit the scene in the mid '9s, there was a lot of uh fears.

It's going to harm your kidneys because your kidneys have to process creatine. Uh, by the way, uh, it's been studied thousands of times and well done studies. Does not harm your kidneys whatsoever. Might even be uh protective, but there's zero uh zero evidence, zero, that it'll harm your kidneys. The other one was uh cramping because uh when you take creatine you have more ATP and so uh ATP molecules uh need water molecules and so you your your body actually holds your muscles hold more water and so they said oh it must be drawing water from other areas and it could cause dehydration as a result.

So that was a theory. So they've studied creatine and muscle cramps a lot. This isn't like a little bit. This is like a big area study around creatine over the last, you know, few decades. And here's what the studies actually show. Um, they tested it on uh in division one college football players and in hot humid conditions. By the way, people who took creatine had significantly fewer cramps. So, less muscle cramps. Uh they also showed that people with uh hemmoiialysis uh patients so people who are prone to cramps creatine reduce cramping frequency by about 60 uh%.

So not only does creatine not cause muscle cramps but all the evidence shows it actually reduces reduces it. Yeah. Yeah. The incidence of muscle. So we've he just dehydrated. He just electrolyte balance. Electrolyte balance. Yeah. Manage it well. Not blaming creatine like creatine. That's why that's why I figured I'm like this is something we've talked about before and it's interesting that it's making I mean New York Times is making headlines over it and I don't know maybe that's because the New York Times knows that I mean creatine is I for the first time ever I feel like creatine's become a household name like I never felt like that before.

It's always been a sports performance supplement. We've known about it forever as like the gold standard of best performance supplements out there. But your average person hadn't thought about that. Like I have my family and friends that are like totally not working. That's because the longevity of benefits are pretty clear now, which I've been, by the way, they've been clear for over a decade. It's just now getting to the the mainstream, the mainstream, the mainstream, which maybe that's why New York Times takes this article, right, and runs with it is because it it'll it'll create headlines.

headlines. headlines. In other words, creatine isn't just good for building muscle and athletic performance and strength. It's actually good for your health. It's good for longevity. It's good for your organs. It's good for very good for your brain. It's a it's a prolongevity, prohealth supplement, not just one uh that improves um athletic performance. So, I think that's why it's making headlines, but it's just it's just not true. It's been well studied. So, it's not like it's a little bit, it's been well studied. And studied. And studied.

And yeah, yeah, yeah, and when the evidence not just doesn't just show it doesn't cause cramps, but actually does the opposite, then you know that uh he's tripping. I have friends right now who are not fitness fanatics who are using creatine because they've seen the data then they asked me about it and we're talking so uh one of them is an ER doctor another one is a psychiatrist who also works uh long hard hours another one is a nurse neither one of them is a fitness fanatic now they'll do some exercise but the reason why they're taking creatine is because the hours that they work and the stress that their job entails especially the ER doctor and the nurse they're like would it would it really help me with like uh sharpness.

Cognitive effects are great. Yeah. Will it give me energy? Life-changing is what they're telling me. Life-changing. I mean, the nurse is coming to me and she's like, they're doing like the 15 to 20 gram. Yep. Like five grams like a few times a day, right? day, right? day, right? Um like the nurse came to me. She's like, "Dude," she's like, "I feel like someone turned the lights on just from taking creatine." Wow. Yeah. It's had a significant uh benefit for them. So, them. So, them. So, um again, they're not fitness fanatics.

They're just regular people who have kind of stressful uh lives and don't get a good sleep, you know, uh quite often because of their jobs and they're like, "This is the most this is the most." Are you the one giving it to them or did you set them up for a while? I I'll give them first and then they'll go and buy it on their own. I thought was it creatine that has somewhat of a like a neuroprotectant, you know, for like even like trauma injury.

Yeah. I wish I would have known all that, you know, like I'm glad to know it now, at least for my sons and whatnot to kind of pass it on, but it's like Yeah. thinking about that even with athletes. athletes. athletes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't take it till I was like 20. It was after after playing sports as a kid. I didn't we it wasn't popular yet. I at least I don't remember. I've been taking it non-stop since I was 15. 15. 15. I mean, if you've been taking it since I was 15, that means it was it was around then when I was in high school.

I just don't remember. don't remember. don't remember. It was expensive back then. Celltech was really No, it wasn't Celtech. It was before Celt. Celt. Celt. Uh it was that's what I remember. So, whatever. What year did it monohydrate by itself? Yeah. So EAS had was the first to make really put it out there and it was uh so Bill Phillips owned it and it was 90 I want to say 94 dollars dollars dollars no no no 1994 but it would cost 40 bucks back then for 30 servings and it was a tiny bottle of powder.

So so 1998. Okay. So that's that's muscle tech. Don't say Celtech. No no I asked him to put that. I wanted to see cuz that's when I that was when it came on the scene for me. Yeah. So it was like four years later. Yeah. That's that's when I started taking it. So 98 uh grape flavor Doug say yeah when when did uh there you go 93. Yep. That's when I phosphaggen that's when I started taking it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But people often ask so my friends will ask me creatine is everywhere.

How do I know if it's good or bad? Which one should I take? So I'm like okay creatine monoh monohydrate. But then you want to look at where the creatine is sourced or look at the company. Uh because um you know supplement companies notoriously. Yeah. There's some shyiness. Yeah. And uh so I I I point them to a couple of our partners. Keon in particular because Keon is just top top. Do they use Creapure? Is that where they get it or I believe so. Uh but Keon is um their their stuff is just it's like top top shelf or whatever.

And because creatine is not super expensive. It's not expensive anyway. Yeah. But you're going to get like real creatine. It's remarkable to me when studies, third parties go out and or investigative journalists go out and take a bunch of supplements and test them. It always makes me so angry. I know. I know. I know. It's like half heavy metals in there and and fluff, bro. It's like it's either half or more than half are terrible. It's not like 10%, 5%. Might as well be sawdust. It's like most of them.

Well, it's because especially stuff like that, the the margins are so slim that it's the way to make the how how you make a lot of money in it. I mean, you if you create enough popularity through brand or marketing and you're selling tens of thousands of bottles, it's not a lot of money when unless you're doing something, something, something, especially creatine. Creatine is not a high margin supplement anymore. It used to be. to be. to be. I mean, this this was a thing I think that I mean, a lot of fitness people don't even realize.

I think every fitness person thinks that they're going to get popular and then, you know, sell supplements is the like way to make money. And it's just your best supplement brands are 10 to 15% margins. I mean, so you got you got you got a million dollar company, you make 100 grand a year. It's not a lot. That's not a lot. You have two avenues to go, right? You uh you either um skimp on quality. So maybe uh it's good, maybe it isn't. Often times it isn't.

And so what happens is you have a cheap product, but your margins are high because you're getting it sourced terribly. or you go the super quality route and you really have to convince people that your creatine monohydrate is pure and good versus this other guy and yeah you're going to spend another 10 bucks but hey here's all here's all of our analysis this is good or our studies that we had to pay for to show the proof of how good it is right because that's the problem the problem with the supplement company is that or the supplement industry is that it's not it's not regulated which is not a bad I don't think I want it regulated right I don't think it's a good thing for us for us for us but it's buyer beware but exactly because it's because then it's like you know you to pay for and the the people that go through the third party testing, they have to pay out of pocket.

So they have to. So not only do they the purely source, but then also if they're getting thirdparty tested, they're paying for the third party testing. So you're paying for higher quality stuff, then you're also paying for third party testing. So for you to you're going to have to charge significantly more than the people that are pixie dusting the the product. So and Keon is like this is like what they're this is their whole deal is quality 100%. So that's why I pointed them for creatine.

But I love to hear, it's so cool to hear from people who are not like fitness fanatics, you know, come up to me in church and she's like, it's like the lights turned on. I mean, I it's just in I'd say the last year is when I've noticed uh you know, nonfitness people talking about creatine. I can't remember. It was just like a month ago. Uh was in a Oh, it was at uh our buddy Jay's house and he had all his family and you're talking like uh none of them look like they work out or anything like that.

And that the dinner table, everyone's talking about creatine. I'm like, this is such a weird This is weird. It's a new multivitamin. Like, you called it a long time ago. I remember it was like, it's true. 10 years ago. Yeah. I I'm pretty sure they've incorporated it. incorporated it. incorporated it. They have. There's Yeah, there's companies that have it in in multivitamins now. It makes sense. I I I'll tell you this right now. I'm not saying that this is what I'm uh advocating for. Uh but I think in the future, you can write this down.

I think they're going to give it to kids. I think it will be uh part of the protocol for people as they age and I think they're going to give it to pregnant uh women. Again, I'm not advocating for kids and pregnant women because uh we're not allowed to say that. So, that's not what I'm advocating. I just think probably 10 15 years from now, they're going to be like this is part of your prenatal or and this is there'll be studies in that direction. I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure this is what you need to give your kids.

Yeah. Interesting that we haven't I guess it's just the risk factor, right? Why they wouldn't wouldn't do something. Russia will do it sooner later. Well, here's the deal. You can't you can't do studies on kids or pregnant women. women. women. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's uh it's there's no it's unethical. it's unethical. it's unethical. It's very unethical. You can't take a group of pregnant women and be like, "We're going to see if this I said Russia will do it." Yeah. China's already done the studies. That's terrible.

That's terrible. I want to talk about peptides for a second because there's this viral video that's going around where this doctor is talking about BPC57 um and how it it um it spurs angioenesis. Oh, I'm glad you brought this up. Did you see this? Yes, I did see this. I wanted I'm so glad I forgot about this. I wanted to bring this up. Yeah. So, this woman, this doctor uh says it's it triggers angioenesis, which is the formation of new blood vessels uh to cells. So, if you have an injury, more blood supply, more nutrients to the to the injury uh is going to mean it's going to recover faster.

That's not the only way that BPC57 works, but it's one of the ways, right? right? right? Yeah. And so she said, "You don't want to take this cuz it because it doesn't know the difference between cancer and a normal cell." And I get the rationale. I totally do. But what people need to understand is there is a normal physiological state and then there's a pathological state. So to get use a different example, um eating a high protein diet uh builds more muscle, burns more body fat, contributes to better longevity.

Okay? With all things being equal, you're healthy, exercise, all that stuff's better. Can protein feed cancer? Yes. Carbohydrates. Carbohydrates produce energy uh well-being. They can help with hormone balance. Can carbohydrates feed cancer? Yes. We can go even deeper. MTor uh which is a a marker or or trigger for muscle growth. Mamillian target rapomyosin. rapomyosin. rapomyosin. If you boost that with a cancer cell, cancer cell grows. Does that mean we shouldn't lift weights? Because every time you lift weights, you boost mTor. No. In fact, in a healthy state, uh, building muscle, spiking mtor reduces cancer risk.

cancer risk. cancer risk. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, testosterone, um, testosterone sensitive cancer. That was the first thing that went to my mind when was the fear-mongering that was around. was around. was around. Yes. Yes. Yes. Testosterone. Same same angle. So, you have irrelevant. Yeah. if you have cancer uh already. Well, so again, you have prostate cancer, it's sensitive to testosterone, it could drive the growth, but what we see in data is that men with really low testosterone have a high rate of prostate cancer. So, there's a healthy state and then there's the pathological state.

Uh what they find in the BPC is that it doesn't contribute uh in the in some of the data that we have to cancer or cancer growth actually shows anti-cancer effects anti-cancer effects anti-cancer effects um in many of those cases. So I think the the worry what they're looking at is the mechanism and they're forgetting uh that there's a lot of other things that are happening with that and not just to look at. look at. look at. Now the other argument that that I think that doctor made too is that uh you know we have very little or no studies on humans.

Everything is on animal studies. Yeah. So that's the that's her big there there is there is there isn't a ton uh of human studies but humans have been using them for a while. And there are studies out of Russia that we don't we like to discredit. Uh, but peptides are really interesting um, and how they work. They're not all the same, but some of them seem to be regulating, meaning uh, they can uh, boost inflammation when necessary or reduce it uh, when necessary. It's not like a drug that just forces its way uh, in your body.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, it's it's it's very different. Not saying you shouldn't be like adaptogenic somehow. Yeah. I'm not saying you shouldn't be careful, but they're not they're not they're typically not in the same category uh as drugs. Well, really is the big concern is the quality of where you're sourcing it from because you don't really know, you know, from some sources like what's actually in there, which could exaggerate Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. underlying problems. underlying problems. underlying problems. Yeah. Cuz uh the gray market is research chemical um peptides and then you don't know what's in there.

Yeah. Yeah. Or where they're coming from versus like like when you go through like we have partners at np hormones.com and they're those are medical professionals and they prescribe the peptides and the peptides are from FDA regulated compoundies. So they have those standards. I remember when it when it was first getting popular I mean we were doing the podcast and I thought originally it was it fell in the same category as like SARMMS. SARMMS. SARMMS. No. No. No. And so totally different. Yeah. I was totally like not a fan of it at all and thought it was very similar to that.

I'm sure that there's still a lot of people that feel this way. Like think you inject it, it's probably like a hormone or it's like a SAR like this can't be good for you. You know what's interesting too about just to go to hormones um because there's there was there's the fear with hormones, right? If you use too many hormones because some cancers are hormone sensitive, it could cause uh higher rates of cancer. We have a wonderful uh kind of self-study uh group of people that we can look at to see does that actually happen bodybuilders bodybuilders bodybuilders bodybuilders and let me tell you they are not using uh appropriate levels of hormones.

They're going crazy. The cancer rate with uh bodybuilders is lower lower lower than the average population. So, not saying that you should do what they do because they die from other things, but I I I think that a lot of the fear-mongering around some of the stuff with cancer, there were those studies with women, with women, with women, yeah, yeah, yeah, where they saw uh women who were on hormone replacement therapy had higher rates of certain cancers, but when they went back and they said, "Oh, you know what we threw in here were a bunch of women who were on birth control uh forms of hormone therapy, which is not bioidentical.

It's like synthetic, you know, versions of progesterone or whatever, which don't act the same as actual progesterone or actual testosterone or actual estrogen in the body. So, yeah. Anyway, uh, one more cool thing. Are you Do you guys see the study that's going viral on ivormectin and meendazol? Have you seen this, Doug? I think you saw it, right? I've seen some of this. Yeah. No, they're going to look deeper into this, but I'll pull it up. Um, there's a lot lot lot relationship with like parasites and uh, cancers on some level.

Yeah, there's a lot of um there's a lot of speculation on these two old antiparasitic drugs and their their potential effect on cancer. Good old Ivormectton. Yeah. So, this was a prospective observational cohort. So, you got to take it with a grain of salt. Still interesting. I think it points us in a direction. There was 197 patient perspective observational cohort with a tele medicine platform that went viral. It reports that 84% clinical benefits rate at 6 months follow-up. So in other words, 84% of the people who were using who had cancer who used ivormectin meendazol had a positive effect.

The problem is it's not a randomized control trial. We don't know what else they were doing. doing. doing. But it is kind of interesting that and there and there is there are mechanisms that they they can point to and say these these have anti- cancer effects. That's That's That's what it's what' you say is it combined or are they two sep Oh two of them together. Oh okay. Yeah. And they've been used for a long time. See, Doug's pulling up some interesting uh in lab settings.

Both drugs have shown the ability to inhibit uh tumor growth, trigger cancer cell death, and target cancer stem cells. There's clinical data early. It's limited, but observational studies uh that show uh that they seem to help with breast cancer um or in some says no no help. They're pretty relatively safe uh drugs to take, but I think it's pretty interesting. I have a friend who's um I won't say too much because I don't want to encourage anybody to go in this direction, but direction, but direction, but this person is uh there's lots of anecdotes I've read too.

There is uh and I went down this path. You guys know this years ago had a family member who had cancer and uh she was terminal and so you're left with like what do we do? Was that what Okay. what Okay. what Okay. Right. Um, and uh, so I know somebody that is kind of going down this path and the traditional methods aren't working and so they're going to pro they're going to probably go down this path because what else you got to lose? You're already kind of going there.

But anyway, interesting area research. It'll be cool if we find anything. Wow. You still have you keep that on hand, don't you? I do you keep the other one too or no? I have them at home. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I do. I do. I mean, I do too. [ __ ] Stock pile. Is everybody still dewormer? People are actually privy now that it's not like just a horse dewormer, right? I mean that there's like all kinds of stuff benefits to it. Yeah, there might be some effects.

Yeah, dude, for sure. I got I got a few things at home. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, that I won't share here. There's a lot of crossover with veterinary medicine. It's kind of hilarious. hilarious. hilarious. Let's talk about the single variable everybody tends to forget. Sleep. Look, you can dial on your training, your diet, mobility, but if your sleep is off, even if it's not off by that much, you're not going to build muscle, and it's very difficult to burn body fat. It's true, sleep makes a huge, huge difference.

This is why we work with a sole has a device called the pod. It's a smart cover. It fits over your existing mattress. Now, what it does, it actively cools or heats each side of the bed independently all the way down to 55° or up to 110°. There's a huge range there. And as you get into warmer nights, this makes a big difference. By the way, it also has AI technology to adjust this on the fly. It actually monitors your sleep to maximize your individual sleep.

So, here's what the data says. Users of the eight sleep say they have 35% more deep sleep. They fall asleep up to 44% faster. Heart rate variability is up 13% on average. people's resting heart rate goes down by 2.3 beats per minute on average. It tracks it all, by the way. It does this all for you. It's literally smart sleep. So, go to eight sleep to maximize your sleep and your gains. Go to eight.com/mindpump. to eight.com/mindpump. to eight.com/mindpump. You can get up to $500 off the pod during their Memorial Day sale.

This is happening now through May 31st. Go check them out. Back to the show. Our first caller is Jonath Jonathan from Northern Ireland. Hey Jonathan, thanks for having me on lads. Um, really appreciate it and all the stuff that you do have um only recently um B news just sort of short clips online and then just sort of deling into the podcast and um I don't know if you've got to see my email just few things going on and um thought I'd reach out cuz it's just sort of a confusing situation.

and I thought I was doing the right things and it sort of maybe led to my detriment in a sense. But um just a bit of background um played professional rugby for probably over a decade or so. Um had to retire due to concussion and then obviously carried a bit more weight back then. I would played hooker and uh lost a bit of weight but um just life there recently was just a bit all over the place. So I would have obsessed over training and that and you know cut down quite a bit of body fat and then obviously sort of got got you know bit better or whatever.

But um uh a friend sort of suggested just sort of the my physical and whatever mental or what what sort of data when he said get your testosterone tested and I didn't really take much heat or think about it and got it done and it's came back um very low and got a retest there last week and it's even lower again and I just thought I'd reach out and sort of ask you know your your opinion or your thoughts on it cuz it's Um, obviously it's a lot more prevalent today, but I'm not quite sure.

I feel like I've been doing the right things with my lifestyle and training and looking after myself. So, it's a bit um confusing with it coming back so low. Yeah. Yeah. Good question. So, uh there's a few uh common reasons why why a man's testosterone may be low. Sometimes mysterious, but there are some common reasons. Uh one of them is overtraining, overtraining, overtraining, being underslept, being underslept, being underslept, too much stress, uh or nutrient deficiency or diet. Okay. Many times it's all the above. Yeah. Or it could be all the above.

Uh with a guy like you, okay, your ex proathlete. Okay. Uh your concept of appropriate training or should I say an athletes concept of appropriate levels of training is so so skewed. Uh oh yeah I'd agree. Um I I always do too much than too little and probably when I was playing hard had you obviously we have our SNC coaches and they sort of guide you and you have your downtime whereas probably since retiring I've just sort of you know kept the kept kept grind and just more the mental side you know yourself getting into the gym and it's a sort of an escape and not sort of just an outlet.

Um, so probably guilty of that, but you know, I feel like my diet's pretty good and I look after my body and I sleep well and I am very active. Um, I don't know if it would be diet or you know, stress cuz obviously life throws a lot of [ __ ] at you. I sort of trying to b balance the whole thing. Um but um I'm seeing my general practitioner again on Friday and they refer me to a hormone specialist, but it's something I don't want to just like jump to conclusions on.

Um if it's something that can be avoided, but I do know like I don't want to walk about the rest of my life feeling, you know, like I'm dragging myself about like a 90-year-old. 90-year-old. 90-year-old. Are are those pictures you just sent? Are those are those current? Is that you right now? right now? right now? Uh no, that that would have been me. Um, I'd say I'd say I'd say mid November or so. Like that. Like that's the like the lightest or leanest I've ever been.

Okay. Your your testosterone level will come back low when you're that lean. Even when I was on testosterone and I'm get that shredded for a show. You feel like it. I Yeah. Your testosterone levels will come down like it uh so being that lean is um is not ideal for for testosterone levels. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, I'm I'm up to about 83 kgs. I've put about 5 kgs on since since that photo. So, okay. Okay. okay. Okay. okay. Okay. Definitely in in a better spot, but they're still they came back.

The second test was 5.4 nanomles. nanomles. nanomles. So, I think that equate equates to was it about 150? Yeah, it's low. That's low. So, so there's there's also this stress too, Jonathan. You you how long were you professional? Did you say decade? decade? decade? Uh 10 years. Yeah. About about obviously you come through like I know it's different in America like college sports and stuff. You'd have likemies um here in the in the UK and Ireland. So came through like academy system but like fully professional training you know with the senior team like over 10 years.

So I was looking to do that. And then before that you were very competitive even in your youth probably. Oh yeah. just playing whatever whatever got me out of class and just playing sport like just like almost sure. Okay. So, so is it's very stressful to have something become your identity and then to snatch it away. So, uh they've done studies on this where somebody uh you know retires and they identify very strongly with their job especially if what you what you did brought you a certain level of glory uh and a certain level and identification.

And if you identify strongly with being that athlete and competing and now you're retired, it's very stressful. It's like, okay, who am I? What am I doing now? I'm lost. Um, and so that's a stress as well. Um, so you got that plus you pro I'm going to ask you what your workout looks like, but I'm I'm going to guess it's a lot. So tell me what your training typically looks like. Uh I've tried to be better now and try to like read my body and be a bit more intuitive.

But um on average like recently I do like three all body sessions um gym sessions a week about 90 minutes and you know trying to bring them close each set close to failure. Um, and then I try and do try and do and do and do two car like it depends just how the body's spin like a run or a bike, you know, twice a week. But it just depends like sometimes I might do mileage of like 25k, you know, over two runs or do a bike.

a bike. a bike. As a pro athlete, your your gauge of what you can uh handle and tolerate is so crazy. It's so far beyond what is ideal for health for your body. So I without even finishing I can tell you right now you're way you're hammering the [ __ ] out of your body. Yeah. That's why you're feeling this way. way. way. Training to failure. Three full body workouts plus additional cardio sessions on that kome. Yeah. That's bro that's that's a ton. And it may not feel like a ton to a pro athlete athlete athlete who has been able to handle elite levels.

But there's a there's a difference between training for an elite sport and being in conditioned to handle your elite sport and then training to be healthy and fit and have good testosterone levels. testosterone levels. testosterone levels. There's also totally different. It's also cumulative. And so this is why ath this is what you'll not. It's not that you're old by the way. You're you're not old. You're obviously in your 30s, right? But it's cumulative over time. So you're just pushing your body, pushing your body p and it's like 5 years, 8 years, 10 years of doing this and it's just cumulative.

And so what you don't want to do is look back and say, "My I used to do twice as much. This can't be too much. I used to be able to do way more." You got to You're probably going to need to go through a good year of kind of draining. And so what that would three days a week full body is fine. Yeah, it's good. But I wouldn't do them part 90 minutes and train to failure. Those are a lot, right? I would go 60 minutes and I wouldn't train to failure.

You want to stop your sets where you feel like you could do another three three reps or so. So, drop the intensity, drop the volume. The cardio is okay if it's leisure, but if you're pushing yourself in the cardio, then that might be too much. And and what'll happen is let your body recover. Feed yourself, by the way. Start, you know, start feeding yourself. Don't you don't want to walk around too shredded. Start feeding yourself. Give yourself about six months of this. Retest your testosterone. See what happens.

Now, if it doesn't change substantially, substantially, substantially, testosterone replacement therapy could be uh a game changer. Now, if if you are indeed doing too much, which is what I think is happening, and you take testosterone, you're going to put a big band-aid over the whole thing. Yeah. It's going to mask it all. You're still feeling good because you got the high testosterone. Uh but you're still overdoing it. Um so, yeah. You're not solving the right cause. cause. cause. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. So, I would give it six months of of doing kind of what I said, 60 minutes, three days a week.

Uh, three reps short of failure. Don't go to failure. The data, by the way, doesn't support failure anyway. So, you don't need to train a failure. Three reps short of it. Think of practicing the lifts like they're skills rather than beating yourself up. yourself up. yourself up. And then when you do your cardio, make it leisure. it leisure. it leisure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I mean, and I think you'll feel good. You can walk away from a workout feeling energized. We're on the right track.

I mean, something to consider. I mean, you're you're an ex-p proathlete, so I know you have an appreciation for being coached. Something to consider is to have someone coach you through this process to get you to that point. And then and because this is fixable most more often than not, this is fixable before you have to go the TRT route. It's just we got to find that right balance uh for you and then from there it's then it's easy. A guy like you who who I know can take uh what uh what uh what Yeah, you have no problem with discipline.

So we just have to point it in the right direction. Now again if if if you do this and in 6 months months months your readings come back low um then TRT is a fine option. There's nothing wrong with it uh at all. The only issue would be fertility if you have want to have more kids but you could also use something called AC hCG while you're on TRT which will maintain fertility. Um and it's really not uh if it's still low at that point it's probably healthier healthier healthier to go on TRT.

Yeah. And there is an a potential association with head trauma and low testosterone. So So what we what we're saying may may work, but if it doesn't work, it may be associated with the head trauma that you got from your sport cuz there's also an association there. association there. association there. Yeah. Cuz that's probably why like the specialist that I saw, you know, I think whenever you're playing, everything's a million miles an hour. Even whenever you know you might you might get to go out and you know have a drink with the laz like a social every 6 to8 weeks but when you get that opportunity you went hard the same with your food you had to eat so much and then when you do retire you keep living that lifestyle or like you have those habits and you don't train where he was like it's it's fit for your it's fit for life not fit for your 20s or 30s.

So, I think I really took took that, you know, on board and like I've probably went too far and like tried to dial everything in cuz obviously it's like your head like you're you're getting battered about and obviously there's more and more, you know, studies coming out and different therapies and treatments and at some point like especially like for American football as well and ice hockey, you know, they're going to have cures for for that stuff. So, it's sort of I probably just the fear of that and just trying to like really nail it down probably just went a bit far.

Yeah, I think if you did what we're saying for 3 months, you would know if it would work. I think 3 months is plenty of time to get retested and then be like, "Okay, it didn't go up significantly significantly significantly now. Let's go the TRT route." I think peptides are also a good option for you. There's two peptides you might want to look at. Actually, three. There's BPC, Selen, and Cmax. Yes. Or Daxa. Really? All three of those are really good for uh for the brain, for healing, for inflammation, recall.

recall. recall. Yep. So, Selen, Cax, I'll have Doug send you the names. I don't know how available they are in Ireland, but you might be able to get them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, I really appreciate that advice, L. advice, L. advice, L. Yeah, you got it, man. Um, and then, uh, let's Why don't we have you back on in a few months? I'd love We also have a coach call you if you're interested in that. If you want a coach to coach you through this, one of our coaches can.

So, it's up to you if you want to do that. Yeah. You know, it be great. It'd be great to like have a chat or see what the option the options were cuz I I know I'm bad for like I'll always go that extra mile rather than Yeah, it's good you know yourself. It's good you know yourself. Yeah, I'm I'm learning the hard way unfortunately. But um I think that's but like everything in life, you have to learn the hard lessons. lessons. lessons. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Good. No, good. No, let's have you back on in in a couple months so we get some uh we'll get we'll get back on with you and get a little Well, yeah, we'll have Doug send those those peptides over and then we'll have a a coach call you and kind of show you what that one will look like and then hopefully we'll have you back on. Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it, guys. All right, brother. Have a good one. Luck. Thanks, Jonathan. All the best.

Byebye. Byebye. Yeah. Uh so, a couple things, right? Uh exathletes, especially when that's you live that way for so long, it's so hard to titrate your training. It doesn't feel right. It feels like you're doing nothing. nothing. nothing. Well, his gauge is way off. Way off, dude. Rugby. Oh god. 10 years ago. ago. ago. At least he's doing 3 days a week. I'll give him that though. Not bad. Not bad. Not bad. But but the cardio between I was going to say it's not really three days a week.

Sneaks it in. It's 5 days a week. 90 minutes of and failure. I mean, his physique when they pulled the picture up, I'm like, obviously got that was like 6% body fat, maybe lower. I mean that he was shredded. He's like stage stage ready. He's got I mean he's he's got he's got pro. pro. pro. He's got pro rugby genetics. Here's the other thing too that that that they that we know. Um head trauma is also associated with uh hormone disruption because because because it comes from the brain.

Uh and so they're not quite sure, but you'll see this often hormone disruption. You see thyroid sometimes testosterone. testosterone. testosterone. I feel really confident with the advice we move him up. How much up is uncertain, right? Like but I he's overtrained. He's overtrained, underfed for sure for sure for sure and just simply tweaking that a little bit will show. Yeah, it'll it'll show some improvement. The question is can we get him up over like healthy range? He said his position was Hooker. What is that position?

that position? that position? Yeah, Hooker's in the middle and it's actually the first like in the scrum and Oh, so you're just getting Yeah. Your head is like Oh, like I told you guys the very first game I played at San Jose State like uh our hooker broke his neck. his neck. his neck. Oh my gosh. I was like, what am I doing? you know, you know, you know, give you a helmet, dude. Yeah. No. Yeah. No. Yeah. No. Next caller is Lindsay from Georgia. Lindsay, what's happening?

Hi, Linds. Lindsay. Hey, guys. Thanks for having me today. You got it. How can we help you? Yeah. So, I'll go ahead and get started with my email that I sent. I'm a registered nurse and a mom of two boys. I'm currently 11 months postpartum with my second child. I've been consistently following your programs for over the past year and wanted to reach out. After my first pregnancy, recovery seemed a lot easier. Of course, this one's been more challenging. I previously did MAPS anabolic and recently completed the power lift.

Um wanted to say thanks again because my strength has improved a lot. This past month I hit some new PRs. Um 235 on squat, 250 deadlift, and 120 bench press. bench press. bench press. So pretty pretty proud of that. Working as a nurse in postpartum recovery. Um for reference, I'm about 5'5 and currently about 160 lbs. My goal is to lose body fat, gain some definition, and looked more tone while getting back to my pre-baby weight, which is still about 18 to 20 pounds away. I am currently tracking macros.

I'm around 1,600 calories and around 120 to 140 of protein a day. Even with a busy schedule, I make a priority to be strength training 4 to 5 days a week. I do about 15 minutes of cardio before working out and a HIT session one time a week. Um, despite this, the scale seems to be creeping up and my clothes are tighter, especially in my legs and midsection. So, looking for any advice that you have on how to approach fat loss at this postpartum stage. Um, not sure if I should change programs, adjust calories, do different cardio, or something entirely different.

Um, my husband listens to your podcast daily and recommend that I reach out since I won't listen to him. So, you don't listen to our podcast. So, you're not familiar with our advice typically? typically? typically? Yeah, I have been listening. Yes. Over like the past probably six months. Okay. Okay. So, so first off, I'm I'm shocked that you're as strong as you are eating 1,600 calories a day. That's really low. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Low. Low. Low. Yeah. Super low. In fact, we can't we have nowhere to go.

We want to want to cut calories. Bu We want to build into the body you want. And so the first advice I'd let go of the what pounds you were the let go of the what pounds you were before on cuz you're actually doing a lot of the right things like the way you're lifting and the direction you're heading but it would be the attitude would be let's build the body we want instead of trying to cut into the body that you want. Yeah. We got a reverse diet cuz your calories are so low on I mean you could go down to 1,200 calories.

You'd see a little bit of loss. You'd also see some muscle and strength loss and then you plateau plateau plateau and your energy would suck and your energy would suck. You'd hate life. So you you you'd be better off slowly reverse dieting, building more muscle, building more strength, getting you up to like with your activity 23, 24, 2500 calories, somewhere around there, and then we could do a cut. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you you need to do a reverse diet. You need to probably reverse diet for a good 6 months or so before we try a cut.

That would be the way to do. If we do a good job at this, the scale should kind of hover around. You could go up and down, you know, three to five pounds. But if we do a really good job of reversing slowly, adding like 200 calories every couple weeks and just keep doing that until we get to a number like S's saying, 24 to 2,600 at least, and then we can bring you back. Like if I got you all the way up to 26 and brought you down to 2,000, you would see yourself just lean.

You would see fat loss like crazy, eating more than you are now and eating more than what you are now. And you'd feel good and and get where you want to be. But I I if we do this right, I I I think you should actually kind of see that transition happening while you're increasing too. Like we that would be the goal. My goal would be can I increase your calories, not see a lot of movement on the scale, kind of hovering the scale around 3 to 5 lbs north or south while we get stronger and keep focusing on the strength.

Yeah. I mean, just to put it in simple terms, and it's way more complex than this, but at 1,600 calories, that much exercise, that much I know at nurse nurse, you're moving all the time. Uh you're you got you got a baby. um your body's hanging on to body fat for dear life. It's just hanging on. It's just too low. So, you're you're you're giving yourself the bare minimum of nutrients. So, we got to slowly build So, we got to slowly build that up uh through a reverse.

Is that 200 roughly a week just adding in like the rice that you guys have talked about or is there a certain area where I should add that in at? Yeah, you could go big. Okay. So, easy way is I mean do you do well with high protein? Can you increase like so just eat a bigger portion of meat when you eat your meat instead of I don't know if you're like a 6 meat eater or what your ounces are add two more ounces okay usually it's between five and six and I think the backtory is this weight was my heaviest about 6 years ago and I lost almost 40 lbs in a year like that and so I guess it's kind of like a mind thing like increasing calories I didn't want to see all of that weight gain back it's different though look how strong you Here's the other thing, too.

Lindsay, here's the other thing, too, hun. You're 10 months postpartum. And I know everybody tells you on social media like, "Whoa, you're out of it." No, no, no. no. no. No, no. It takes Listen, I've trained a lot of women postpartum, especially number two. It takes two It takes about 2 years before you feel 100% like your old self. Okay? Okay? Okay? Right? Right? Right? So, you're still in that in that phase. You still got a baby. You got another one at home, too. So, uh, give yourself some time.

If you force it right now, the things are going to backfire big time. Mhm. time. Mhm. time. Mhm. So now, do you know what your fat intake is at? is at? is at? I think it's roughly between 50 and 60 grams. grams. grams. No, bump your fat, hun. Yeah, you'll do better around you'll do better closer to 70 probably. 70 probably. 70 probably. What your meat choices, are you eating leaner cuts? Is that what you're doing? A lot of the times they were lean. Here recently, as I had heard, my husband's like, "You've got a reverse diet.

You've got to listen to them." And I was like, "Okay, I need to hear it from them first." Um, so I did do a lot of mean cuts, but right now it's a lot of like chicken thighs. We do a lot of deer, deer meat, deer roast, you name it, we we load up on deer meat. Nice. Nice. Nice. Okay, good. Yeah, stick with just stick with the fattier cuts. That typically that's all I have to do with my my clients that are good at hitting their protein, but they're low on fat.

I know right away they're like eating fish and chicken breasts and stuff like that. It's like enjoy enjoy some red meat, enjoy the ribeye, enjoy some tri tip, enjoy enjoy some chicken thighs. That'll bump the calories naturally and you're getting it from a good source. Are are you have you ever reverse dieted before? No. before? No. before? No. Would you want a coach to walk you through it for the next like six months or so? or so? or so? Yeah. I mean, I would be open to that, especially since I'm not familiar with it and kind of what steps to take or how soon and things like that.

Yeah, cuz there's because as you do the as you go through it, there's times when you pull back a little bit. Times you add a little bit more. It's going to mess with your head. I promise you. So, I'll have a coach reach out and what they would do is that process of reverse dieting, set you up for a cut. They would just walk you through the whole thing. thing. thing. The hardest part is the psychological part. There's no doubt if I was coaching you through this process, there'll come a time when I'm doing this with you and you'd be like, "Adam, this doesn't feel right." And then that's where I got to kind of talk you off the ledge like, "Trust me, I I see where we're going.

You're doing a great job." And if you surrender that to the coach and just trust the process, you'll look back in six months, you're going to be pumped. You'll be pumped where you're at. So Okay, great. Well, thanks. So, what about my workouts as far as is there I've done, like I said, the MAPS power lift, the anabolic. Um, obviously hardly any sleep right now, so that's a challenge, but still aim um for about four at least four days if I can. Um, I feel better after, but as far as program wise, wise, wise, Back up, back up.

Tell me about your sleep. What do you mean hardly any sleep? sleep? sleep? Um, I have an 11month-old that's up about every 3 hours. Oh, Lindsay. and a three-year-old that doesn't like sleep either. So, Lindsay, you're redlining, huh? Yeah, I should have known, Yeah, I should have known, too. You're a nurse. You guys always do that. You guys redline the body. Push through. Yeah. Well, I'm a I guess a soft nurse now. I used to do oncology and ER and now I work for Oh, god.

You're You're Yeah, you're a red line machine. Used to adrenaline. Okay. So, when you when you work with your coach, they're probably going to recommend uh a back down on volume. They'll probably do math 15 with you. you. you. Yeah. Yeah. I should ask you. They'll take care of the programming for you, though. you, though. you, though. Yeah. They'll recommend the right program, but it's it's not going to look uh it's going to look like a lot less volume cuz you're just Yeah. With with lack of sleep, that is that would just brutal.

You train too much with lack of sleep. Um and that's another sign that says hold on to body fat. Don't build any muscle. Don't speed up metabolism. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was definitely I knew the no sleep obviously is hard, but you feel better after a workout and you're used to it. Baby, Baby, Baby, remember what that is. That's a that's cortisol dumping in your body. So, it's what we call cortisol junkies. off. My nurses love that. My nurses love that.

that. that. Yeah, you th you thrive off of stress, right? So, yeah, that's that's why you feel great. feel great. feel great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Over time though, it definitely adds up on the body for sure. 100%. All right. I'll have somebody call you. I think we got a good idea now what this will look like. Y. Y. Y. Okay. Sounds great. Thanks, Lindsay. Thanks, Lindsay. Thanks, Lindsay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Should have known when she said nurse. I have yet to meet a nurse that doesn't do this to the red light button all the time.

I mean she she adds uh and she was er oncology. Is there a more stressful like nurse? She also adds the additional cardio and hit in there also. So she's definitely but like a mass 15 protocols. Nice slow reverse diet with walking. She's going to feel like a new person. Hardest part will be psychological part. That'll feel like nothing for her and it's it's it's totally different operating system. Yeah. It'll it'll probably it'll make her nervous a little bit but if she trusts a coach she'll be fine.

Our next caller is Rob from Connecticut. What's up Robert? What's up? How you doing, Rob? What's up, guys? How are you all? Thank you so much for having me on. I appreciate it. appreciate it. appreciate it. You got it, dude. How can I help you? So, So, So, yeah. Uh, basically what I'm looking for is some help with my off season. So, I'm a pro basketball player right now in Italy. Um, which is awesome. I love doing it. It's a really long season, though. So, it's like it's like it's like only a couple months that we have in the summertime to kind of uh train for the the following season.

It goes from September until September until September until uh depending on playoffs, May or or June. And so, in the past, what I've done is done a lot of stuff on the court. And this summer, I kind of wanted to lay off of that and focus more on working on my body. And my question revolved a lot around diet. So, I think right now, if I had to guess, I'm probably probably probably 15 16% body fat. I haven't gotten it measured, but um I think I would be around there.

I'm around like 2:15 220 on a depending on the day or the time of day. So I think in terms of how I can optimize my encore performance, I would like to get down to around 10% if I can. Um the challenge becomes whether or not it's sustainable for me to stay at that level when the season comes back around. Um, and so it is a little bit different to track things over here in in Italy. It's a it's a bit tougher. Like for example, on the a package of of ground beef, they don't have like the percentage of fat and and lean that it is.

So, not to say that it's not doable. Um, and in the past I haven't really tracked diligently before. Um, but I am very conscious of of what I eat, what I put into my body. So, um I guess overall just looking for some advice on diet, whether or not you think that's a it's a a worthwhile goal, I guess, um to begin with, and with, and with, and you know, how I can do that effectively without m uh without sacrificing recovery performance on the court. Um, and obviously while keeping as much strength and and and muscle mass and stuff.

So, stuff. So, stuff. So, good question. I saw you've been listening to show since you were in high school. school. school. Yeah, it's been a while, 25. So, that's cool. that's cool. that's cool. I was I was on the bandwagon I was I was on the bandwagon early. early. early. That's cool. Great. I mean, I'm trying to, you know, spread the word, tell my parents about you guys all the time. So, nice, man. You're 66 in Italy. You must be a giant over there. Yeah. I actually played in Sicily for a year and a half.

So Oh, wow. Gento. Oh, nice. I've been there. Yeah. Yeah, that's great. Okay. So, so this is going to be different for someone like you, but I need to know more about the season. You said it's a long season and the offseason's about two months. Two or three months. Yeah. So, Yeah. So, Yeah. So, like for example, I have my last regular season game next week and I got here for preseason August 5th. So, it's uh it's like a 30-ish game season. Uh one game a week and then during the actual week we're practicing around 2 hours a day.

Okay. Okay. Okay. It it could even be more. So, it's a lot of practice. of practice. of practice. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Um Um Um Okay. Okay. Okay. And so, that's why I think this summer it might be a good idea to just lay off a lot of the Yeah. the core volume. This is different for someone like you, right? Because you got a long season. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, you're playing a game once a week. Uh, and on top of it, 2 hours of practice a day, and then your off season's about like what, 60 days or so?

Yeah, I mean, it it could be more. Um, but I'd think 60 to 90 days. I know it's a little bit of a large Okay. Okay. Okay. gap, but gap, but gap, but Okay. So, let me let me back up for a second. I'm going to answer the body fat uh question for you. Uh, going down to 10% body fat won't necessarily improve your performance. No, I don't think so at all. Yeah, it actually might take away from your performance, your performance, your performance, your energy a little bit.

Yeah. So, typically leanness is a side effect of performance when you're looking at your level of of athleticism or or or at the level that you play at, right? So, if I take a guy like you who's playing well at 15%. And I just focus on getting you lean, uh, often times we'll see a decrease in performance. Now, if you're training properly and suddenly we like fix like we have the perfect programming, perfect diet, and your performance goes through the roof and then you just so happen to drop a few% body fat, who cares?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But what we don't want to do is chase leanness thinking that's going to make us perform better cuz that's oftenimes not the case with someone like you. Okay. As far as your off season is concerned, your off season should be focused on recovery because your season is so intense and so long. Do you guys do any practice during the offseason at all? all? all? No. So, for the offseason, I'll be back um at my home in Connecticut and I'll be doing a little bit of coaching and stuff.

And then other than that, it's uh me making my own schedule in terms of, you know, working out and that stuff. So, I think one or two days a week of strength training and and and and then playing basketball a couple days a week, light shooting and drills, bro. Shooting drills, Shooting drills, Shooting drills, light light drills, and that's it. And then just focus on recovery. It's so important, dude. Because Because Because I mean, if our goal is is is continuing to be a a better athlete, then that's that's the the recipe.

Yeah. Because otherwise, what'll happen is we'll start to rack up injuries and stuff because of how much you're doing in the during the uh on season. So, it would it might look like it might look like uh you know, one or two days a week, three lifts. You're going to go and do three compound lifts. You're not training at a high intensity. You're training at like 80% intensity just to kind of try to get stronger. Then a couple days a week, play basketball or practice your skills so that you can maintain your skills.

And then rest, sleep, uh massage, mobility, uh more sleep, red light or all those things. feed your body uh appropriately, which I think you're doing because the other challenge in the offseason is someone might be like, "Well, I'm just going to go party with my friends and eat a bunch of garbage." Don't do that. Uh but also don't go in a cut. So, I think just continue to eat healthy, eat adequate protein, feed yourself. I wouldn't do a purposeful cut in the offseason. I think that'd be a mistake.

You're Doug just pulled up all your pictures, bro. You're you're you're athletic and fit. You are you're lean. You're plenty lean. I wouldn't want you leaner. Mo most people's performance is best at 15%. Yeah. Yeah. No, he's and I think he's at the high end 15. He looks like he's 12 to 13. to 13. to 13. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, you're you're you're fit, bro. If you were high, I would tell you if I thought you were in the high 20s or something like that, we could lean out and it would benefit you, you know?

If you were Zion Williamson, then I would tell you to cut some cut some body fat. You know what I'm saying? And it would serve you on And it would serve you on the court. the court. the court. But that ain't you, dude. You're you're like what I think I think all of us would agree is like the optimal body fat range. range. range. I'm going to get look I'm going to send you Maps 15 uh performance. Uh that's a that's a great program in the offseason for you.

for you. for you. So it's a little bit every it's like a little bit every day and then continue to practice your skills uh in the offseason and in rest. Actually that would be perfect. Matt 15 performance with shooting drills and footwork drills footwork drills footwork drills just to keep your skills is perfect. Yeah. Sharp. And then rest. Lots of rest dude because the season's so long. And there's so much going on in the season that you need the rest. that you need the rest. Yeah, that makes sense.

So, I actually I have Maps 15 performance and I've been doing it kind of modified in season which is uh been pretty perfect. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um Um Um so I I think it's good advice. my thinking with the whole body fat thing and obviously I've heard you guys talk pretty recently about the performance detriments it can bring to drop um but one of my goals was to kind of get uh I guess lighter on my feet like more agile quicker quicker quicker and I've heard that you know being as lean as possible is obviously not necessarily for that no it's it's strength to weight ratio and and just getting stronger will It would be if you were built like as a Zion Williamson and you're carrying that much extra.

You're not though. You're if you were at 23% body fat, then yes, leaning out a little bit could actually improve. improve. improve. Let's say you lo let's say you lost 10 lbs, but in the process of losing 10 lbs, you lost uh 15% strength uh in in you know major lifts. You're you're not faster. faster. faster. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're just smaller, right? It's in that negative. Yeah. You want it's strength to weight ratio. And the same in the reverse, like you can gain 20 pounds of muscle, get super strong, but now your weight is so much higher that it doesn't make a You're at such a good percentage, dude.

If you weren't, then it would make sense. But you're you're at a good percentage. Again, if you were 25% body fat, then absolutely leaning out a little bit could make a big difference on our performance, but you're in the optimal body fat percentage. If you focus more on foot strength, ankle mobility, and you direct all that movement up towards your hips and your glutes to take care of most of that, you're going to be so much lighter on your feet. your feet. your feet. To have that strength support around the ankles and feet, uh, opens up a whole like whole level of like, uh, movement potential.

So, potential. So, potential. So, yeah, but, you know, here's the other side of it, Robert. you're playing at such a high level that what you don't want to do is mess so much uh with your mechanics that it throws your technique off that you've honed. So like uh I remember we saw a picture once of I think it was LeBron James. Was it his feet? Yeah. feet? Yeah. feet? Yeah. And they looked all messed up. And the trainer the trainer in me is like, "Oh, we got to correct his feet." No.

But the dude plays with those feet. He's so good at playing with those feet that if I suddenly snapped my fingers and made him have perfect foot mechanics, it would throw off his technique and he would not be as good. Yeah. So that's where you're at, dude. You're like a you you know you're at playing at such a high level that honestly it's like just recover, dude. Mass performance. Go do your drills, rest, rest, rest, and you'll you'll do so much better. Force the joints and eat.

Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah, that sounds good. I think it's probably been a while since I've taken a extended amount of time off, just dating back to college, too. and summers have been a a grind because that's kind of the the culture as well within, you know, basketball and whatnot is multiple workouts a day. And so I felt as the the years have gone on a little bit, the benefit of like you guys are recommending shorter, more intense, and then just a lot of rest and what a difference it makes to actually be fully recovered.

recovered. recovered. Totally, dude. Yep. It's huge. So, eight hours of sleep every single night. Go to bed and wake up at the same time and take a nap every day. I'm not I'm not even joking. For sure. For sure. For sure. It'll it'll work when in combination with performance, a little bit of basketball. basketball. basketball. Uh you'll come back feeling amazing. Cool. Cool. Cool. All right, dude. That's it, dude. Yeah. Thank you guys very much. I appreciate it. it. it. You got it, man. Thanks for calling in, dude.

dude. dude. It It's so different. People need to understand it's so different when you're talking to talking to talking to Yeah. professional athlete, a high level athlete. the game is completely like the the strategy is completely different because someone might be thinking like oh off seasonason let's build this is the time to his performance is already at peak like he's there he's there he's there he may he may maintain and he probably needs based off the seasons that he was we saw he may need to just rest for for a couple months well he his his thinking is logical if he was at a higher percentage body fat if he's carrying tons of body fat yeah if he if he there's I mean there's definitely some pro athletes that yeah if it's slowing you down yeah that I mean this is And this is the big knock I kept bringing up Zion Williamson on him is that he's he's so big and heavy and he's constantly injuryprone and he's he carries a higher body fat percentage like in the mid20s, you know, and so it would make sense.

Yeah. A guy like that you he even which by the way wouldn't even be like this targeted cut. It just be cleaning up his diet. Yeah. So, but he's he's in like what we talk about the optimal place. Like you can see he's a perfect any leaner and I think it would it would if we chased leanness he would not No, he would lose strength. You said he would lose strength and that would be trigger. Yeah. trigger. Yeah. trigger. Yeah. Our next caller is Cararissa from Pennsylvania.

Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania. Hi Carissa. Hi Carissa. Hi Carissa. Hi guys. Hello. Nice to meet you all. Same. How can we help you? So I was calling um my question is about gaining muscle but also trying to maintain some sort of leanness. Um I'm looking to gain muscle throughout this year and make actual changes to my body without going through a cutting and bulking phase if possible. Um, I understand I will have to gain some weight in order to gain more muscle, which I am okay with, but I'm trying to do it at a rate uh preferably where I'm gaining muscle and losing fat at the same time.

I just began raising my calories every two to three weeks by a few hundred calories uh to see the calorie range I could get to while maintaining my weight. Um, do you think this would be a good plan to take or would you suggest to do a bulk and cut approach? Um, I've done about two books through out five months and had gained roughly eight pounds throughout, but I was just not seeing like the results that I was really striving for. Um, I do I have run through MAPS anabolic and maps muscle money muscle mommy for the last three years.

Um, I do my 10,000 steps daily. I hit my protein goal. I'm just not sure what else I could really do to make actual changes. What What are the calories at right now? Um, I do like 2,300. Okay. So, okay. So, let me just help you real quick. A bulk and a reverse diet is the same thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just different branding. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But they're both in a surplus. And the goal is to gain muscle. The other thing is gaining muscle while losing body fat to be more accurate.

You'd want to gain muscle with the body fat percentage going down. That's different. So, if you gain 5 pounds of muscle but gain no additional body fat, your body fat percentage would go down. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because now it's a smaller percentage of your overall body weight. Does that make sense? sense? sense? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Now, what's your body fat? It says here that you're sitting around 19%. Yeah. So, I know it's low. Um, and I'm comfortable where I am right now, truthfully. I just wish I had like more shoulder definition.

I'd like my legs to get a little bit bigger. Like I like I said, I want to actually gain more muscle. Um, muscle. Um, muscle. Um, okay. okay. okay. So, I I know that it probably does have to go up. keep keep moving in the direction you're going. And yeah, you probably are going to have to get up to probably 21 22% body fat. But here's the deal. deal. deal. Uh more muscle at 21% or 22% body fat looks leaner in your shoulders and legs than 19% does.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so don't get too hung up on the body fat percentage. fat percentage. fat percentage. Uh Uh Uh yeah, that's where I felt like I was getting with this scale. We have the Hume scale and I was like I feel like I'm getting in my head about it. Yeah. I I would look at strength and keep reverse dieting nice and slow. 2,300 is a nice a nice place to be. Um I think if you got up to 2500 and you stayed there for a while and just keep focusing on getting stronger, I think you're going to get what you're looking for.

You might even get there just staying at 2,300 calories. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I appreciate it so much. so much. so much. Yeah. Are you f So you're going between anabolic and muscle mommy? Yes. Yeah. I go I go back and forth like just to switch it up every once in a while. while. while. Have you done powerlift? No, I have not. All right, let's get you powerlift. Let's have some fun. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right, thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah, I'm definitely up for anything.

I I like switching it up and I love your programs. Um I feel like I've gained so much more like freedom in not working out five days a week and just doing it three. And I like to take my dogs on walks. I have a one-year-old, so we're always out doing that when we have our free days, too. You're doing really good. Just the the mindset I'd want you to have if I was coaching you is that we're going to build into the body you want, not cut into the body you want.

So, you already you're already plenty lean enough, you're getting a good amount of calories, the things you want, shoulders, leg depth, all that. We're going to build into that, not cut into that. So, that that's the direction to go. And slowly increasing the calories like you are and focusing on getting strong. Powerlift will be a great program. Focus on the weights, just get stronger. try and add weight to the bar and and slowly increase those calories and then we'll look back in three months. You'll be super happy with what you see.

you see. you see. Okay, perfect. Thank you. I appreciate it, guys. Nice to meet you. You, too. Thank you. Thank you. Have a good day. She's doing She's already good. 2300 calories is good. Yeah. No, she I mean that's a at and she's only 118 lbs. She's not uh So, she's she's she's No, she's doing good. Yeah, she's in the the right. What she's looking for is more muscle. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. She's not looking for leanness. And that's why I meant that that to the mindset is yeah, build into the body.

I think that's just such a common theme that we need to keep saying to people is that that that you they have this look in their head that they want and they think it's about losing. Yeah. They think it's about losing and it's like no, you absolutely build into that body and you'll and you'll get the best of both worlds. You'll be eating more than you've ever ate before. You'll feel stronger than ever and then you'll also have that physique and who cares if you're at 19, 22, 23, 21.

The way you want. Yeah, and you feel better. better. better. All right, I know you liked that episode. If you did, check this one out. How strong should you be? Ever wonder if you're actually strong or at least compared to people like yourself? Today's episode, we're going to talk about that and we're going to help you determine how strong you should be and also talk about the steps to getting strong as fast as possible. In fact, we're going to talk about the fastest way to get bigger and stronger all at the same time.

I know you say, "I don't look at night." I Yes, it does actually. And I know that you wrote a really complex episode here, but I think Justin's metric has been the