Take a Week Off and Gain 21% More Muscle — Here's the Science | Mind Pump 2859

Key Takeaway

Schedule a deload week every 6-8 weeks, even when feeling strong. Cut weight by 30-40%, focus on technique and muscle feel rather than intensity. Research shows this produces 'supercompensation'—after 2-3 weeks back at normal intensity, you'll surpass your previous strength levels. This structured recovery can boost long-term gains by up to 20% compared to continuous hard training.

Episode Overview

This episode reveals how strategic deloading—planned periods of reduced training intensity—can boost muscle and strength gains by approximately 20%. Drawing from Soviet sports science and modern research, the hosts explain why consistent lifters who never take breaks are leaving gains on the table, and provide practical frameworks for implementing deload weeks without losing progress.

Full Transcript

Transcript of Take a Week Off and Gain 21% More Muscle — Here's the Science | Mind Pump 2859 from Mind Pump Show. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

Every once in a while you figure out that there's one simple thing you can do to boost your gains by 20%. Oftentimes it's not true, but this time it is. There is one simple thing, it literally is simple, that you can do. You can add to your training and you will see over time much better gains. And most people don't do it. We're going to talk about it right now. 20% 20% bump. Yep. D losses. Get it? Get it? Get it? It's D loads. Really? Really?

Really? Yes. Yes. Yes. Is this what the research says? So, here's what I did is I I I had to use AI for this because there's a lot of studies on this kind of stuff. And I went all the way back to the 1960s uh and pulled up Soviet data and also looked at current data. Uh now, we know uh as coaches and trainers, our experience, we know when we work with people people people that if you don't do this, people just don't progress as well.

And when you do it, they just progress really well. We also know it with ourselves. The challenge was when I looked at the data, there were a lot of these eight and nineweek studies. And when you look at eight and nineweek studies, you're not going to see much. It's not enough. No, you're not going to see much with D loads because that's not what D loads or periodization. Periodization is kind of like a dload. So periodization is where you you'll go through uh periods of higher volume, lower volume, uh higher intensity, lower intensity.

It's all structured out typically. So, it's not based on how you feel, but it's rather structured. So, you know, over the next couple weeks, I'm going to do uh much lower volume or I'm going to do what's called speed work or whatever. Um, but in short, you know, periods of time, uh, you you're not going to see much gains from this. Where this really shines is if you've been working out for a while, like this makes a this is one of the most important factors in workout programming just based on the data and the evidence.

We can go all the way back again to the 1960s and 70s when the Soviets were destroying everybody in strength sports. They were crushing everybody. Um, and I said this on a previous episode. The the the speculation was that they had better drugs drugs drugs than we did. Um, and that's what everybody believed and that's what we said. And then uh when the iron curtain fell down and their coaches came over here and we had started access to their data, data, data, uh, we realized it had nothing to do with the drugs, their methods.

it was their methods because then their coaches came over here, our athletes started training this way and lo and behold, we all started crushing uh records. So, it makes a tremendous difference. tremendous difference. tremendous difference. Yeah. I'm I'm trying to think the only uh the only drawbacks to this advice that I see is if you're somebody who's listening and you struggle with consistency, then then then you're already de loing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Loading your way into intensity. But I love this conversation. And I love this and I love that you got you figured out the percentage cuz that's that's that's uh remarkable.

Yes. Um and of course we all know this. We've talked about it many times, but to put a number on it is like, wow, that's a that's a big difference, right? And I do think that a large percentage of the people that listen to the show are fitness fanatics, are people that are really consistent. I mean, we get a lot of people that call in and they're like, I've been doing this for a year. I've been like that they train consistently. Um and so I think those people would would get a lot of benefit from from doing this huge benefit.

huge benefit. huge benefit. What was the um parameters in terms of the length of the like week of the D load and like how frequent you know for the year? the year? the year? Well, you remember that one study which I think is so fascinating, right? Yeah. Which showed no difference between two groups that were like alternating weeks. weeks. weeks. Yeah. One every month a group took a full week off and the other group took no week off. Yeah. Which is crazy. every month. Every month they get a whole week off.

And at the end of the 16 weeks, they had the same gains. That's that's crazy. Which is wild. So here's here's what it feels like when you do this, right? And here's what the data shows. And as I'm reading the data, I'm like, that is true for people who are consistent because I could I could see this as well. So what they would have you ever heard the term I know Justin, I'm sure you have, super compensation. compensation. compensation. Okay. So what it looks like is you have these highly trained strength athletes and they're pushing pushing pushing and then they go through a block uh let's say two or three weeks of uh some some periodization or a dload load.

So the intensity drops significantly uh the volume drops. What it looks like is technique training or if you're a power athlete like a sprinter it looks like uh speed training technique. Yeah. You're not pushing yourself. you're just, you know, practicing biomechanics and form and technique skills, right? If you're a lifter, you're going to the gym. And if you normally squat with 300 lb, you're squatting with 200 lb and you're going easy, but you're just practicing the skill and the technique. When they get back to the hard training, there is a reduction in strength.

They see this, but after two or three weeks, there's what's called supercompensation, and they surpass their previous push them. Yes. Their previous best. And so this is important to communicate because if you're uh you know consistent and well trained, you may be hearing dload and you're like I don't know about what that what you're talking about cuz when I take a week or two off I come back I'm already strong. I don't feel as strong or it doesn't feel as good. I got to get back into it.

But you got to wait a bit. It's actually later on that you see this progress. You know, my one of my favorite things about the competing process was the week after the leading like one to three weeks after a show. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And a lot of that like not only was I like depleted in calories leading up to this this show, the final week of of prep where you get before you get on stage, you don't really work out. No. Yeah. I mean it's at that point all the work is done and you're really just kind of fine.

of fine. of fine. Working out with those low calories and that low body fat. Not a good idea. Yeah. You're not doing anything. So you're really low. You're really de loing completely in that week and then and then you're also at pro post show refeeding like crazy the next week. So you get this week off you you totally desensitize everything load back up and go those the workouts for the next week to two was the was it's the most anabolic feeling. It is. It feels more anabolic than steroids.

Yes. steroids. Yes. steroids. Yes. It's so hard to explain that to somebody. It's like somebody who obviously has taken plenty of anabolic steroids and knows what that feels like. The feeling of that feels more powerful than that. It's crazy. I went through that um on accident. Wasn't planned. Uh so when uh way back and I don't know how long ago was it, Doug, that we shot Maps Anabolic and the No BS six pack and all that. 2013. 2013. 2013. Okay. So this was Oh god, that's a long time ago, bro.

Okay, so 13 years ago, you're a different dude. So 13 years ago, um this was my thought process. So we're going to put together a digital workout program. Mind Pump didn't exist. So, we had no way of marketing this other than some internet marketing um uh skills in in experience that Doug had. And so, I'm like, how how is anybody going to listen to me? I have no authority. Remember, I had no podcast back then. I'm not going to get bigger than than most people online because I'm just not um so what I the best thing I could do is get shredded.

Shredded always kind of looks impressive. So that was my thought process was aside from putting out good content, doing good internet marketing, maybe blogs, I'm going to get as shredded as possible so that when Doug puts my picture up, people will at least see that, right? So it was the first time I'd ever gotten down uh cuz before that the leanest I' ever got was like 8% maybe. And I got down to like sub 4% which was really brutal. That was an experience all in of itself.

But when I did that, we filmed, we took the photos. In fact, you could see some of the old photos of that where I'm like super shredded. Uh, after that I So, I I didn't work out that much when I got that lean because I just couldn't just couldn't just couldn't Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, we did the the photo shoot, all that stuff. And then I did what you do after shows. You just start feeding yourself. I was, you know, I was eating so low calorie. I couldn't wait to feed myself and I was eating like crazy.

And crazy. And crazy. And it was the wildest like month ever that I ever experienced. I just felt like I was just building muscle out of nowhere. And this is all crazy. This is all pre uh uh HRT for you, too. So, you're all natural all this. this. this. Oh, it was wild. I looked in the mirror and I was like, "What is happening to my body? This is so crazy." And that's part of the super compensation. So, you just brought that up because So, this is what they would do do do after a D lo.

So, after a D lo and the person gets back into training, they would actually bump their nutrient intake. So they would feed them more. And and and so for anybody who's ever heard of carb loading before an endurance race, endurance race, endurance race, y y y what a lot of people don't realize is what typically happens before the carb load is a carb depletion. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So this is endurance athletes. Got to restrict before. Yeah. Endurance athletes have known this for a long time. So what endurance athletes have done for decades now is they'll lead up to an event, they'll drop their carbs, not super low because they're endurance, but they'll drop their carbs for a little while while they're training.

They'll experience drops in performance. they're more tired, whatever. And then leading up to the event, they bring their carbs up higher than where they were before they dropped them. And they would get all this extra stored glycogen and energy. And that's also super compensation. It's just part of this whole process. So like people listening right now are like super consistent with their training. Mhm. training. Mhm. training. Mhm. Like you can tap into this and and know you're going to go through a little period of feeling like you're not as strong, but know that 2 or 3 weeks after it's going to get wild.

And I got to I mean, let me ask you guys, how many people who are super consistent with their training even attempt to do anything like this? No. No. No. Nobody. Nobody. Nobody. No, No, No, nobody does this. No. Cuz you're I feel like you're either on one end of the spectrum, the other. That's why I said, well, when I inconsistent or inconsistent or inconsistent or Yeah. You're either person that shouldn't use this advice because you can't string four weeks together. Yeah. And so just disregard this information.

Stop information. Stop information. Stop or Yeah. Or you're the other person who's like so consistent, you never take breaks. Maybe a day here or there or whatever or a week can get away, but never do you schedule like a whole week of de loing. And to me, when when that study came out that showed people uh taking a whole week off every single month in a three three-month study that this got the same results as the people who took train every week. That shows you I mean that's that that number is nuts.

That's almost a full month of the three months. By the way, took off and you saw the same result. If you look deeper at that study and others like it, what they see is a drop in strength and hypertrophy rebound, right? right? right? And then a rebound. A drop and then a rebound. And at the end of the I think it was 16 weeks, they're the same. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, they did like 1/4 of the uh they did uh 3/4 of the work uh of the other group and had the same gains.

Yeah. So, you know, you could tap into that uh with your training, get better growth. So sometimes people will point to other studies to show that well if you periodize or you de lo hypertrophy is similar. So here's the problem with that because that is true but these are short studies. First off if you look at those shorter studies there is a modest uh advantage for periodization for strength. So that's number one. So although hypertrophy seems similar strength is better in the periodized group. However, when they stretch these out over time, uh the periodized group, uh less burnout, less injuries, and better hypertrophy better hypertrophy better hypertrophy because uh this it's cumulative.

Yep. Yep. Yep. It all adds up. Makes a lot of sense. By the way, bodybuilders back in the day uh used to do this. Uh they don't do this so much now. Part of it is, I think, is the the drugs they use now are just insane. insane. insane. But in the 70s, uh they all took uh time off. They all took time off afterwards. Yeah. Some guys still do too like you you know our friends that are that are been doing it for a really long time uh are they in fact they the guys who are able to maintain there's a term there's a bodybuilding term it's not a scientific term it's uh that they call um what hap what they think happens uh when you do so many cuts and shows like that is your body just it stalls out.

It's like doesn't matter. matter. matter. Yeah. And that's it's Yeah. And I can't remember the term that they use. It's it's uh slipping my mind right now. It it it's basically they need to completely reset because it's they're they're so adapted to the calorie cutting and all the cardio and all the stuff that they're doing to get in shape. They just need to completely You know who took time off after every Olympia was Ronnie Coleman. And then you know who did this to an extreme was Kevin Levrone.

So in the '9s uh he's probably one of the best uncrowned Mr. Olympias and people would trip over how much muscle he lost uh after a big show cuz he would stop everything. he would stop training, stop doing everything and then he'd show up to get ready for a show and people would trip and how much muscle and they thought, "Oh, you must have this the best genetics." No. And by the way, he's got great longevity. If you look at Kevin Leon today, he looks phenomenal.

Um, and bodybuilders that practice this typically look a lot better. Dexter Jackson is a good a good example that example that example that so like if like how do you apply this to your training? I think it's reasonable cuz you can look at like complex complex complex uh models of periodization. Uh and the programming gets pretty specific and pretty awesome for coaches and trainers like and strength uh coaches like this stuff gets really nitty-gritty kind of cool. But I think an easy way to do apply this for yourself is if you're ultra consistent is uh every sixth or seventh week or two go and plan to go easy in the gym.

You still show up. you still work out regardless of how good you feel. So, this is why periodization is so effective. effective. effective. Uh uh because or how it was used. You have to really plan it. It was scheduled. Yeah. Put it in your calendar. Yeah. Because if you wait until you're burnt out, you're already behind the eightball. So, what So, what I'm recommending is like for those people who are consistent is every like the seventh week or eighth week or sixth week, something around there.

You take a week or two where you're like, I'm going to go even I know I feel great. I feel like I'm crushing it. Uh, but what I'm going to do is go to the gym and go easy for a couple weeks. And you may notice a little bit of loss of muscle fullness, little bit of loss of strength when you get back to the gym. But know, and this is very consistent the data, two or three weeks after it, you get that super compensation where you it slingshots you forward forward forward uh for better games.

There's a there's another thing that I think that this for me personally, this has helped and maybe this will help somebody else. The way that I've framed this for myself is I in life happens inevitably uh and I tend to have these these periods of time where I'm I'm a little inconsistent and and then there's other periods of time where I'm really consistent consistent consistent after that study came out. It uh it changed kind of my mindset where I used to get really frustrated and I'd allow days off like five days of missing the gym to kind of spiral out and have the kind of effort on and off type of mindset mindset mindset versus being like, "Oh, that's perfect.

Like I was on a nice rhythm for like a month there and I took five six days off and row natural de lo. Yeah, natural de lo and I'm back at it again and it's uh I don't know it's it's it's similar to the me giving myself the permission to go to the gym and just do one or two exercises. It's been very freeing and it just I just go with it versus before I used to allow it like oh I'm off now. I've been in I've been missing cons and then I fall off the diet.

I fall off all these things and then and then one week turns into two weeks versus me going like oh that was perfect. It was like it was nice. I had a a nice week off and now I'm back at it again. And what I've noticed when I look back look over six months, it's like, man, I've been able to maintain really good shape. Even though I would consider myself relatively inconsistent, but when you look at it, I'm still consistent compared to the average person. I don't take months off, but week a week off all the time happens these days, but then I'm right back at it.

And when during that time off, I also didn't go off the rails and just completely let go of my eating like and it's just so here's what I do cuz I I'm much better with this than I used to be. So I'm obviously a fanatic and uh I have a little mental uh block with it or connection. Like I go to the gym, it's for my mental health, you know, and so if you're listening, you're probably like, "Oh yeah, that's me." So here's what I do when I do my dload.

Uh I go, and there's two ways I can approach this. So, you're either a strength guy or girl or you're like a muscle or hypertrophy guy or girl. So, this is two ways you could do this and I've done both. I'll go to the gym and if it's hypertrophy, if that's the mindset I'm in, I'm going light and all I'm trying to do is really feel the muscle. So, you know, if I'm doing incline press and let's say I work out with 225, I'm going to put 135 on and I'm just going to really try to feel the pec squeeze and just kind of like isolate and do that kind of thing, right?

Um, if you're a strength guy or girl, cut the weight in half and just perfect your technique. Can I make my deadlift more explosive? Can I make it move faster off the bottom? Can I get my squat to feel more stable? And so, you just perfect the technique and then again, what'll happen is you'll come back, feel like you maybe lost a little bit, and then suddenly, boom, uh, gains will go through the roof. So, it's just a good approach for people because I think the big challenge with this isn't necessarily the information that we're giving, but the attachment obviously.

attachment obviously. attachment obviously. Oh, no. That's interesting because I naturally do that for I'm a big like movement in general, like gross motor movements, like less on like muscle groups and whatnot. Uh, but when I do take weeks like that where I'm kind of really lowering my intensity, I will either feel and squeeze like more hypertrophy style training or Yeah. I'm going to go Yeah. I'm going to go through that and really like do fast reps really light. Yes. So, that's what powerlifters will do with their D loads is they try to move the bar faster uh with lighter weight.

Um, and they don't go like to fatigue like faster and then also hammer myself. Yeah. It's just perfecting the speed uh of the bar. Great for performance. Yeah. All right. I got to um so we talk about meal prepping on the show. I've been more consistent than I've ever been uh in a long time with meal prepping. Really? Really? Really? Yeah. You you know this. You see me bring my meals. Well, I mean I feel like you've been that way for a while now. Well, I'm super consistent with uh now with how I prep and how I schedule it.

So, So, So, have you is is part of this Door Dash motivate motivation at all or No, it's it was really numbers gone down, down, down, bro. That was that was mine. I'm not lying. That was like a lot of A lot of the motivation was like, I think I could put a dent in this. Dude, and I have, dude, it's it's almost insulting. It is a bit insulting and embarrassing like how ridiculous it is. And just getting back to that. Anyway, sorry to cut you off.

No, the motivation for me was health. Uh because as healthy as you can eat, if you're smart with eating out, they're always going to use different oils and you know, the food isn't going to be as clean as what I know I can make or whatever. So, what we did is I switched my butcher box uh cuts to include a ton of chicken thighs because I love thighs for I don't know. Thighs are really good. Like steak is good, too. Ground beef is best, but there's like certain meats that are are are okay warmed up again.

Like steak, rewarm steak, it's not the best. It's okay. I'll do it. Microwave steaks. Microwave steaks. Microwave steaks. Yeah. Uh ground beef you could warm up and it's great. And chicken thighs are great. warmed up chicken thighs the day after or two days after is almost just as good as when you first made it. So I switched my butcher box. Um we already had a ton of ground beef cuz my kids will eat that. Uh but I threw in like hella chicken thighs. So now what I do is Sunday, so I do this on Sunday.

Sundays after church, come home, I fire up the grill and I put like five, six pounds of chicken thighs out there, season them and just grill them all up. And then if you look in my fridge now, I have like uh the like like all these Tupperwares filled up with chicken and rice or chicken and vegetable. And it's just great. just great. just great. I think that the four staple things that we have in every box is chicken nuggets to my my son. I don't prep those.

The chicken the chicken thighs have to have those. The ground the ground beef and then the uh my ribs. Those are the those four. I eat those. But we eat those on rotation and that's that's my box. But I would say the easiest, right? I don't know if would you guys agree like um ground beef, rice, you know, you can throw in some mushrooms in there, some seasoning, a little bit of salsa after you warm it up. Super. It's always really good. I always like it.

And then thighs. thighs. thighs. You season them, warm them up again. I'll eat those all day long. Both those are amazing reheated. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I in fact I I don't know. Trying to think right now because I tried steak and I don't steak rewarm. rewarm. rewarm. I have a trick for that. What do you do? You cook it rare? Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. That's what So So the trick is to So I'll when I when I'm I'll cook a bunch of steak, right? A bunch of ribeye and uh I normally uh when I cook uh I'll cook enough for like Katrina and I eat that night.

That night I'll cook it to a medium temperature that we're going to be eating dinner. The other ones I pull early so they're at so they're rare. So when I And then I also do this. So I cook them and then I cube them. So then I I slice in cubes. So I don't because the other thing that sucks about steak re is like you got plastic fork you're trying to cut. So I I actually you guys have seen me. So I take I cube them all up and portion it out with the rice.

So they're rare and they're and they're cub mixing the rice. rice. rice. Yes. Yes. Yes. Oh. Oh. Oh. And then when you reheat it takes it it takes it up to a medium chip. I was asking this earlier. And and yeah, it's that's the key to that I think. Oh wow. That's done. You know what my kids like? kids like? kids like? Chicken breast. Chicken breast. Chicken breast. Yeah. Yeah, I like they like with them. Yeah, I'm a big chicken breast guy. So, you like chicken breast?

You guys highlight that all the time. I'm like, really? really? really? You don't say anything? Because I You love it so much. I don't You're not going to change my mind. mind. mind. I know, right? I did not know that about my feelings. my feelings. my feelings. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're a pro chicken breast guy, bro. The problem is, you know, over the years, like I feel like there's been like a consistency issue with chicken breasts. I don't know if it's, you know, certain quality of, but like obviously Butcher Box has a better quality, so that helps.

But like, yeah, I kind of steered away from them from a bit cuz you'd get them and and it was kind of like I don't know, like I don't know how to describe it, but like chewy kind of like consistency. Like it didn't have that same like cooked throughout kind of uh feel, but like I've always liked just the flavor of chicken breast butter. Weird. What the heck? I've known you for how long? long? long? I had no idea. I had no idea you were I'm a big breast guy.

Wow. Yeah. What? So, tonight we're having they're so dry. So, tonight we'll have chicken breast. I mean, if where I like chicken breast, but Katrina has this dish that she makes that has like it's like a a that has like it's like a a Greek yogurt. It's a It's saucy. Okay. Okay. Okay. So, the chicken bre I like when you put it with it with it with You like your chicken like you like your women. women. women. Saucy. Saucy. Saucy. Real saucy. Real spicy. Saucy and breasty.

I didn't say that. I didn't say that, dude. dude. dude. So it when when she cooks the the chicken breast in uh and we have it in like a sauce or casserole, that's where I like chicken breast. But because you got all these other fats and juices with it, so then it's then it's good. But straight chicken breast. How many things about you do we not know? Cuz you don't say anything. Probably a lot. This is a big deal. Bro, chicken breast the next day reheating.

reheating. reheating. How many times have me and you talk crap about chicken breast and this guy's silent silent silent and you prefer it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Serial killership, right, dude? think is in tacos and everything else like Yeah. I don't want like I don't want dark meat. Wow, dude. Wow, dude. Wow, dude. Oh, you're racist, too. Wow. Hey, serial killer and racist. Hey, listen. Listen, it makes sense. He has has has Can't pin that on me. It makes sense. He does kind of have like a kids pallet.

You know what I mean? Like, oh, chicken thighs too much uh, you know, too much. Well, that's where it's weird to me cuz chicken breasts are are dry, man. They're super dry. You barbecue sauce the hell out of them. That's why this Let's be honest. You're having barbe you have some some chicken with your barbecue sauce. barbecue sauce. barbecue sauce. That's the truth. I need you. Listen, I need to be honest, right? See, here comes all the hate. I need That's why you [ __ ] put plenty of people will come to defend you.

Hey, hold on. Right. Plenty of people will come to defend you about their chicken breast. Hey, hold on real quick. Be honest. Be honest. Fine, dude. Just being honest. Listen. Okay, be honest right now. Do you ever dip your chicken breast in ketchup? ketchup? ketchup? Ew. No. Hell no. All right. I was like, I was the mayonnaise guy, dude. So, I don't know. don't know. don't know. I don't put it on my chicken. Really? Really? Really? No. No. No. You be honest. I can do it, but I don't.

Mayonnaise from French fries. That's about it. I've seen you eat a cube of butter, dude. dude. dude. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll eat butter all day. day. day. I'll do that, too. When I was a kid, there's no shame. When I was a kid, my my mom would go in the fridge and and she'd see that the stick of butter had a bite out of it and she'd get so mad at me. You just straight bite it. I would go in stick in there and I bite it and I put it away.

That's crazy. That's crazy. That's crazy. Not that smart of a kid though, right? Like I can't I mean Yeah. Yeah. You can't hide that. I don't think it was until I started hanging out with you guys where I'll and I know I got it from you cuz I'd never did it before up until I was 30. If I had butter and bread like a normal human, I cut it with a butter knife and I spread it on my thing. Well, but I and I know I've seen you guys do this with just the bread.

You just just we layer them. You just No, you just got you use the bread and you almost like dip on the butter. You know what I'm saying? You just scoop the butter and then I start I do do that now. I never did that before, you know, and I'm like I know it's a habit I got from you guys. Definitely influenced you. The bread is just to hold the butter. Yes, exactly. That's what that's what it's like now. Like I never I you know when you go like like you go to a restaurant now and they give you the the foil ones.

foil ones. foil ones. Yeah. I just open it up on the bread. Where's all the rest? You scoop it with the the bread where I never did that before. I would like take a knife and I'd spread it evenly and then I'll civilize. I'll civilize. I'll civilize. It would it took my bad Yeah. my one cube of butter per slice to like four cubes. Yeah, per slice. That stuff. All right, listen. I got to bring this up because this is happening and I'm going to put my theory out there and you can make fun of me this morning.

Listen, listen. What's happening? Oh god. Oh god. Oh god. Has this been keeping you up at night? Like Like Like cuz this is Listen, this is this is the craziest. This is the craziest thing that is going to be coming out in modern history in my opinion. Okay. So, the FBI just said, who what's his name? Patel, the guy that runs Cash Patel. Okay. He just said, "We just super trustworthy." super trustworthy." super trustworthy." I I know. Well, let's get there. We'll get there. get there.

get there. He said, "I we just uh uh like basically greenlighted a ton of information and documents on UFOs and nonhuman entities." That's what they're calling aliens now, nonhuman entities. And so, it's going to come out. By the way, the White House just bought a uh a URL. I think it's aliens.gov. Yeah, Doug, look that up. Aliens.gov. I mean, we already have a space force. So, okay. So, this is we're gearing up. No, no, there's more. Okay, it's here. There's more. First off, all these officials are coming out.

These are like these are like uh politicians who are coming out who are part of this like disclosure. disclosure. disclosure. Wait. Okay. And two, they've already been um working with like religious leaders, right, about this. You should ruin the whole story. All right. So, listen. These these politicians are coming out. These politicians are coming out and they're saying it's crazier than you think. And what we're dealing with are interdimensional interdimensional interdimensional nonhuman entities. They're dimensions. So, in other words, these aren't aliens like like you would see like like you would see in a movie.

They are interdimensional. So, they could disappear, reappear. They exist in other dimensions. That's what the politicians are coming out saying. Also, there was this meeting of pastors who met with government officials. This is all over social media. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I don't know how true it is, but they're coming out and saying it happened. happened. happened. Who they met with these officials and they said to them, "We need you to prepare your congregation for what's about to come out." Okay. So, Okay. So, Okay. So, Mhm.

Mhm. Mhm. two couple things, couple thoughts on this one. this one. this one. Okay. Okay. Okay. Uh if you trust everything the government says, uh you're not You can go and tune out now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think at this point I don't think they have I think they've never told us anything that is so whatever they release is what they want us to see and there's a narrative behind it. That's just the way it works. So this is of all this you're talking about right now.

This is the area where we we're in agreeance cuz I I have my two cents on all this. I think I think that it's demons. I think what we're dealing with, they're trying to label uh the dark forces of the spiritual realms, the principalities, the demons as nonhuman entities. Yeah. entities. Yeah. entities. Yeah. And so I think that's what we're dealing with. with. with. So, of course, it's been a rebrand since it's a it's a it's a rebrand. The Great Deceiver, ancient times. times. times. And what they're going to do, here's my theory.

theory. theory. Aliens are spirits. If I'm right, then then awesome. Oh, well, no, not awesome. I hope not, but I think I'm going to be right. I think that they're going to try and rewrite uh the origin of humanity, the origin of life. Uh they're going to try to say things like these spiritual leaders, Jesus was just, you know, one of these entities that came and we created humanity and they're going to try and crush crush crush uh people's faith through all of this. That's what I think.

So, So, So, it's demons. it's demons. it's demons. So So So where where where we are in agreeance is that that uh 100% I believe whatever we do get to hear is what the government wants you to hear now because that we're in agreeance there. Where my brain goes right away is that it's less about any of your ideas being true and it's more about what we're not hearing. So I think it has nothing to do I think they could fabricate all kinds of files and stories and try to prove it's interdimensional demons and like whatever all the so cuz that's crazy and that's a crazy debate in itself and so we're all over here while something else slide of hand shit's going on over here.

Not a bad theory. I feel like they've been reading every prophetic literature uh in history and they've been trying to um literally go through each one of those things to get more land grab and power power power and and so it's like you know the belief system people already have um they're now trying to you know use that and and and weaponize that to gain more uh usher us into the new world order. Yeah, I mean there it is. I mean we they've the LA since co I think we could agree that we we've lost uh just in humans as a whole have lost more trust in government than probably in human history.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Well, in modern history. Yeah. In modern history. Right. The average person is like way less likely to trust. Right. And I would say a large percentage of those people fall in the in the conservative I I or religious group of people. Would you not agree? Uh yeah. No, you're right. So what better way to get to try and get them distracted than to feed into demon spiritual all that direction and like that this a these aliens or that like why that is now the narrative to me it's like that will get those people like interested in the narrative like you are right now right now right now but they got to use it for a reason.

We we won't know. We won't know till it's too late or until or until after. I mean, that's not a bad theory. That That's my thing. That's very I mean I because I I think it's I mean they have to place a world leader. Like how are we going to get the antichrist? Yeah. See, you know, how are they going to do that? Otherwise, you have to get everybody bought in and so it has to be from somewhere else. Here's here's what here's why I moved.

You only have to get everybody bought in if you if you think that it's for that reason. I think it's just purely a distraction. I think it's a to get away with something. Yeah, exactly. I think it's to get away with other things or maybe I mean that's been the game since day one. I mean we definitely we're obviously more concerned about this than we are Epstein. I mean that's already that that's getting further and further behind us. behind us. behind us. You think they're going down the playbook?

Like everybody's still talking about about about Yes. We're almost there. You know what I'm saying? We got we got like half of them to forget about it. Like this is going to get the other half right here. This is going to get the You look back at like what was it the um uh Playboy Mansion and everything else too and they're finding like a lot of that was like a huge traffic. Oh yeah. Tunnels and all kinds of tunnels. Yeah. Celebrities and it was like Epstein before Epstein.

Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So here's why I'm going uh in that demon uh you know or or you know the spirit world type of deal. Number one, they're saying they're interdimensional. Uh, so when you're saying interdimensional, the reason why they would say that in my theory is so they can account for the spirit-like qualities of these entities. Okay. Okay. Okay. How do you explain it scientifically that they can do what they do? Oh, it's interdimensional. Whereas people who uh, you know, you know, read the Bible like that's that's that's what the Bible talks about.

Like that seems like the spirit world. The second reason is I've I've always thought alien stuff was cool. And when you look at when you read uh all of the accounts that people have of abduction or experiences, they sound remarkably demonic. They'll present themselves. They'll try to communicate some new world spiritual vision. Uh there's like a significant percentage, I don't remember what the number was, but it's huge of these people being abducted or being messed with and then they they invoke the name of Jesus and then they disappear.

I feel like everybody should listen to that podcast with Sean Ryan in that exorcist. Oh, Oh, Oh, that um he he outlines like the whole spirit world like and gives the whole hierarchy of everything and like what they're capable of. It's really fascinating. fascinating. fascinating. But yeah, to like your point like they they can mimic, you know, a lot of this explanation is like um you know, stuff that we've we've seen throughout history. It's just that you know, it's been re rebrand. Yeah. Rebranded. Yeah. Because don't you don't you guys all find it so crazy fascinating though that so this is this all didn't happen in the last sixmonth window right this is all we have all kinds of well they've been trickling it they've been trickling with more videos I know but what I'm saying is like it's but all that stuff is like the east coast with everybody recognizing these UFOs and that's just to again condition us exactly but so so why choose to do it now and not 20 years ago or 10 years ago or just four years ago That's the question I have.

They got more power now. I have the I I have the have the have the You really think that? Do you really think that all of a sudden they become more powerful? Right now, we now have the tools. I think it's we've uncovered it. Yeah. We now have the tools necessary to uh usher in um real control over the world. We have AI. We have digital currency that they're selling. The infrastructure is there. Infrastructure is there. Uh and they kind of had to warm us up.

That's my It's so funny because like this sounds like a wild conversation, you know, like to have on a fitness podcast, but it's like the president's about to announce this kind of stuff, you know? So, for us not to talk about it is kind of ridiculous in itself. Yeah, dude. They bought the freaking URL, alien.gov. URL, alien.gov. URL, alien.gov. What's going on here? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Where you at, Doug? Well, um I'm not going to weigh in on this except the alien.gov. The alien.gov site. site.

site. You know why? He hasn't been aging for a long time. Yeah. Yeah. It's been working out pretty well for me. me. me. The interdimensions. The interdimensions. The interdimensions. No. A alien.gov is not an active website. website. website. No. Who? They bought though a URL. Can you look that up? What did the White House bought? A URL related to UFOs and alien. I could be wrong, but there was one that they did buy. I just I find I find it really interesting that they they're choosing now to be honest and tell us stuff, you know.

Oh, this Yeah, there's no honest this is all deception to your point. I I don't really know exactly what it is, but yeah, for sure it's a decision. In in in I think it's in the book of Genesis, uh these fallen angels uh uh they find human women attractive and they breed with them. What do alien abductions involve almost always some kind of breeding process? Uh the way that they appear, the way that they speak, uh angels can appear in your dreams or speak into your mind.

what aliens aliens aliens wasn't the whole like the senator Matt Gates and somebody else was bringing up like some of these um alien breeding like like like they're saying the programs like this is from a a senator dude. Oh, there you go. The government registered the domain alien.gov and aliens uh so alien and aliens.gov in March 2026. Yeah, they're not live though. Yeah, I told you though. They did something with it. Told you. Okay, you're right. They own it. Damn, they own Yeah. So now they can profit off of all these people that are going to They're not going to profit off a website.

You think they're going to have ads on it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't put it past for sale. Bunkers. What do you guys think? Let me ask you guys this since we're having this fun conversation. How what do you think the the reaction from the population will be if indeed it does come out and if indeed they confirm this lackluster lackluster lackluster if you if you if you you don't think people are going to care if you did not care enough about the Epstein files. Epstein files.

Epstein files. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. To even do a little bit of homework to know like I have so many people connected to me like family and that's not real. Yes. Yes. Yes. Like what? Here's why. And that that was on a government site that you could go look at the emailing with names on it and conversations. and conversations. and conversations. Yeah. But here's why I think this is evidence. evidence. evidence. Here's why I think this is why this is different. different. different. Because they are going to want us to talk about this.

The reason why Epstein disappeared is cuz they made it disappear. disappear. disappear. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're going to pump this like crazy. They're going to pump it until they don't need it. Okay. I mean, I guess. Okay. So, so like what makes you think too Epstein wasn't pumped for a certain amount of time and then now they don't they don't need it. That's not a bad point. I mean, that's like So, okay. While they're pushing this out, while they're doing this, what do you think the reaction is going to be from people?

You think numb? I I still my back to my point. People are going to be confused, bro. Trafficking children and sacrificing kids. It has to be the top for me of egregious, scary, bad, evil things. I'm less scared of demon aliens. Of course, Of course, Of course, I am. I'm more scared of humans trafficking and killing children. Yeah, me too. me too. me too. That's That's way more evil, tangible to me. Scary. Scary. Scary. Way more scary. I'm like, honestly, if these demon alien things have this much power, they could have killed us already.

It's like I'm more worried about real humans we live with that potentially do that and then the fact that we don't care enough to put anybody in jail. Do So, do you So, you know, here's another thought. I feel like everyone's asleep. God, asleep. God, asleep. God, here's what's crazy, though, by the way. Nobody's going to care. The pastors the pastors that they brought to discuss this with were evangelical pastors. They didn't bring Catholic or Orthodox leadership. And I I have a theory around that. I think personally because of the way the you know evangelical churches are there there is no like strong hierarchy.

There is no strong tradition which is true. Now I go to a non-denominational so I'm not talking crap but I think it'd be harder to manipulate the Vatican and the Orthodox traditions to say no you're going to follow. So I feel like they're part of it. I feel like they took these pastors in that are not really genuine like this what we're going to put up. Oh yeah. I totally think that too. Yeah. I don't think they're taking in real real real propaganda to espouse to the flock.

Yeah. It's not going to, bro. It's not going to going to going to I'll say this. Look, I'm going to say this to our audience right now cuz to prepare for this, you should just exercise. Get real strong. Fit. Fit. Fit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz you don't know what's going to happen. happen. happen. Take them on the rest. Follow a map's program and pray. Eat high protein. It's not a metaphor anymore. Really? I mean, it would take Can we make a side? It would it would take an independence movie day movie day movie day to like really get anybody going like we would need like one of them ships, you know, know, know, coming over the skies like forever.

And even then, I think people would be like, I wonder if that's AI or a hologram. Remember, remember the one that was like the comet that they were like, oh my god, this is like a a ship that went around the sun and then slingshoted its way out. way out. way out. Like, why not then? Have you got um uh Yeah, dude. I don't know. This will be interesting. I would def I definitely think this is going to be interesting. It'll be fun to talk about.

Do we have a timeline? It's coming soon because they just released the the They just said that to a theater near you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a movie, dude. World is a theater, dude. You know it is. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Oh, Project Blue Beam. That's what I was going to say. Are you familiar with that? that? that? Yep. I think you've talked about it before. Remind me what it is. So, Project Blue Beam, which is How did we figure out Doug? Look it up. holographic imagery in the sky.

So what they're going to do is they're going to project religious uh figures like Jesus, Buddha, wherever whatever your religious figure is in the culture, they're going to portray portray portray and all of them are going to communicate to them and say the truth is and they're going to say actually and then converge. Um and there's also technology in Project Blue Beam. So people say that they that they could project uh sound voices. Yeah. They could like literally project voice like audio into your head. your head.

your head. Oh my god, they can already do that's real technology that exists. Yeah. So, what's the staged event? Scroll down, Doug. Let's see. So, using holograms to project extraterrestrial beings, UFOs, or religious figures, a second coming in the sky. The goal to induce global panic and hysteria, forcing humanity to submit to a totalitarian world government. alleged use of specialized technology sometime sometimes linked to HARP to project these images. What where did the theory come from? Is this make it up or did was this like from the 1990s?

Yeah. Did someone come out of their deceious journals in Canada I believe and they tried to debunk it? What if their deceious like master plan like backfires on them that because it all it started with all this tech and getting us addicted to it so that that all this stuff's going to happen. We're all be too busy scrolling. Uhhuh. Uhhuh. Uhhuh. Like [ __ ] Like [ __ ] Like [ __ ] We got them so addictive. We got them so addicting their phones they don't even care. They're not even looking up my knee back.

Vaporized. What? What? What? Yeah, man. Yeah, man. Yeah, man. I start hearing trumpets. You guys like it's on, dude. Let's see what happens. I know. I know. Anyway, I'm Let's change change uh change directions for people we haven't lost. lost. lost. I know. So So Adam, you have uh I've seen you wear this jacket a few times. This is a Vori jacket. Yes. Yes. Yes. What's the name? cuz every time I ask you V1 coach jacket. Yeah, I looked. The reason why I know because I I ordered picked up picked up picked up I ordered the truffle one today.

So I They have a truffle colored one. They have a black one. They have an olive colored one. And then they have like this kind of blue color. So is it like light? It's like a light jacket. jacket. jacket. It's I love it. It's light. It's got this like Velcro so I can make the wrist tighter, looser. It's got a pocket inside. Yeah. It's kind of windbreakeresque. windbreakeresque. windbreakeresque. Um, but I like it too because I mean this is one of the things I love about Viori is a lot of their stuff like depending on like I'm wearing it in a sweats.

I'm comfy today, right? I can dress up. You have the seaside sweats on. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like I'm voried out today, right? So, good timing for an ad for them. Um, I I can dress it up or down down down because it's collared and it's sharp and it's button up. If you put slacks on. Oh, yeah. If you wore it with like one of Justin's like meta pants or whatever that he likes like with the kind of the slacky pants, you could put it on with a white shirt and now it looks like sharp like dinner.

I can go out to a nice dinner. dinner. dinner. That's one of the things I love about Viori is a lot of their gear I can put it with different stuff to make it look fancy or I can be super comfortable and I don't look weird or overdressed. So, it's like uh one of my favorite. But this jacket is probably my favorite piece. I see you wear it all the time. Yeah, it's probably my favorite piece that uh I've bought from there most recently, but I need another I need the other color.

I need the the truffle color would have went with what I'm wearing today. So, next time. All right, I got a uh I got an annoying thing to talk about. So, uh there's apparently I never you guys ever go on Reddit. Reddit. Reddit. Oh god, Oh god, Oh god, I never do. I definitely don't like you for our business too back in the day. I never go on Reddit. I did say I never go on there but one of my friends is like oh there's a thread or a se a section in there about mind pump and then there and I I got to address this because it's super frustrating and annoying and there and in some recent threads are talking about how you're uh constantly sending people to your coaches like when we answer people's questions when people call in.

Yeah. That we're just trying to push them to our coaches our coaches our coaches and that's the problem. It's so frustrating because uh here's the deal. Like the truth is we didn't offer coaching and personal training for a long time. And the reason why we didn't do that is because we we have very very high standards for coaches and trainers. And we knew if we went in that direction, direction, direction, it would take a lot of energy, a lot a lot of training on our our uh uh end and good leadership on our end.

Like we needed people in leadership positions to do this because the last thing we would want, we were all trainers for for a long time. The last thing I'd ever want would be a trainer coach representing us that wasn't doing an excellent job. So, we finally did it. Uh it's been almost two years now. And here's why we recommend coaching. Nothing's better. Nothing's better. Nothing's better. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We've said this for forever. I was just going to say, you know, the irony the irony of this s is when long before when the business first started and the only way that we monetized was through maps fitness products.

Uh, one of the consistent things we would always say is, you know, yes, this is great programming, these programs, but nothing beats beats beats a good coach. A good coach and trainer. We have said that for 10 plus years. You still need a coach about our own own programs when we didn't have coaches to make money or do any of that stuff off of. we've stayed consistent with that and we waited like you said for a very long time before we would even offer some of that.

Now that we have it offered, it would be doing people a disservice when we if we don't recommend it to some of the people that need it. If you listen to live callers too, I mean, what do we do? 8 12 a week or whatever like that. Uh not everybody needs it. Some people it's straightforward. We give them an answer. We help them out. In fact, I'd say 50% of them are that way. But then there's 50% of them that need real help and that they need real guidance.

And it's just like, hey, you would benefit by seeing a coach. coach. coach. Here's the deal. So funny. Here's the deal. Like, um, and this is just a truth in our in our industry. Um, there's a lot of coaches and trainers out there. There's not a lot of really good ones. Y Y Y So, if I have a family member that needs help, I don't just tell them, "Go work with a personal trainer." If, this is before we had coaches, I would say, "Uh, here's what you do.

Talk to a fitness manager at a gym. Come back to me. Let me know what happened. I'll help you pick a good coach." Because good coaches are valuable. Bad coaches are terrible. And unfortunately there's a lot of bad ones out there. We just know that the ones that work here are really good because uh we hire, train, develop them. So that's why we you know the the other part that annoys me about that is that because I guarantee if we were offering coaching for free. for free.

for free. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Those people wouldn't have a complaint like we go get a free coaching for the next year or like that they'd have no problem. But it's because they charged. And the the part that that's it's annoying is that we have 40 employees that work for Mind Pump. uh whether that person that we recommend to go get coaching does not put a dollar more or less in the four founders pockets, it funds that business, that side of the business. So whether that person decides to do it or not does not change our our income.

So the idea of this like oh like we're trying to to money grab or no it's it supports the coaches and trainers and the leadership team that runs that and whether that person does it or not doesn't affect us. Well, I'm just going to be super transparent. There's two things that we wanted to uh address uh with personal training coaching. One is uh the obvious one really good coaches and trainers for for uh customers because they're so valuable. We were trainers for a long time and there's a lot of things we can do on this podcast.

We can give great advice. We have five episodes a week and it's great. You listen to the episodes, it's going to help you. We get a lot of great um comments and emails, but nothing comes close to a good coach. We were coaches. I know the impact I made when I did a good job with a client. It's life-changing. Yeah. So, it's the best possible thing you can do when you if you're trying to really solve your health and fitness issues and do it in a way where it lasts for the rest of your life.

There's nothing more powerful. The other side of this was to be a coach and a trainer in this industry is tough. It's a tough industry and it's not a for often for many people, it's not a good career. So, I love fitness. I love doing all stuff. I want to be a trainer, but I also want to support my family and it's kind of a crapshoot. Where do I go? How do I build this? I can't make enough money to support my family. And so, one of the reasons why there's not a lot of good coaches and trainers is there isn't this like straightforward way of really building a good business.

So, the two problems were can we employ coaches and pay them well so they could build a life here and also provide good service. So, yeah, you got to pay for it because we pay our trainers really well. Yeah. Otherwise, it wouldn't exist. We ask for the best. Yeah. I think it's bad to go on Reddit, dude. I just feel like the just the person I mean in fact I had somebody tell me though about they're like you actually have a lot of really positive stuff on Reddit which is not normal like having anything positive.

Yeah. No, there is positive stuff but then there's also like Qon stuff and you know it gets wild on there. I mean the people the people that are going to go on there do they're normally going on there to complain. very few people take I mean so it's a surprise that there's actually some people that go on there to say positive things but most people most people most people I got some uh some some upto-date data on GLP use uh in the US I heard something the other day I meant to bring to the podcast so check this out let me pull up the stat number I heard um let me see okay um let's see in 2024 5.8% of adults in the US were on a GLP uh today it's 12.4% 4%.

Woo. It went from tripled 5.8 to 12.4 from 2024. It doubled in 18 months. More than doubled in 18 months. Exploded the anti-obesity market, which is what they're called. What you said? You called what you said three out of four. I I think you're going to pro we're probably going to see uh in my opinion between 50 to 70% of Americans on a GOP. 70 is a lot. 50 is a lot. I 70 is a lot. 50 is a lot. I I I I I don't Do you even think there's 50% of people care about being overweight?

Well, how what percentage of Americans are overweight? are overweight? are overweight? I Well, that's what But my point is, do you think that even 50% of those people care? care? care? Yes, I think they do. And I and I know that um that Trump just said that um what's the cost? What's the insurance you get uh after you retired? What's Medicare? Medicare? Medicare? Medicare covers it now. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Wow. So, Medicare is going to cover GP. Yeah. That's huge. Insurance company's going to be forced to cover it.

uh you know more openly doctors are recommending a lot more now. So when that happens 50% for sure you're looking at a medication that promises to solve what 15 other medications are trying to treat with like blood pressure and li blood lipids and all this other stuff. So I think so cuz look brother that's from 5.8 to 12.4 in 18 months. I mean I think it's good. Oh that's what it was. No, it was uh Okay, the stat was how many people per week were adding adding on to GLP1?

It was it's it's a crazy number. crazy number. crazy number. Well, Doug, what's the total? It was like it's like it's tens of thousands of people every week are starting a starting a starting a How many adults are in the US? Like what's the population of adults in the US? Let's see what cuz I want to see what 12.8% or 12.4% of that is. Man, I wish I knew the number. I was here. here. here. See what that is. But uh but they're saying that the global anti-obesity market is projected to go from 19 billion today to 104 billion by 2035.

So in 9 years uh it'll quadruple 267 million adults. Okay. So you're looking at what 30 million is that with 12 what would 12 uh what's 12.4% of 26.7 how much? how much? how much? I would say close. So almost 30 million adults right now Adam are on a GLP. Almost 30 million right now. Isn't that crazy? It's really Yeah. One in eight adults right now. right now. right now. Um I'm looking for this number. US see 700% increase over four years in a number of patients without Y.

Y. Y. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah, man. I saw this stat or and it was a number. It was like like I I don't quote me because I don't remember the exact number but it was like 20,000 people new people every week or just one like it was it was a big number. This is with uh the available uh GLPS are saglutide. The more common ones saglutide and tzepide reddatide isn't even approved yet. No. No. No. When that comes out, oh my god, cuz that and the data people are all antsy for crushes the crushes the other two.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's they just came out with the orals, right? Which I'm sure is I don't know how effective they are. I don't know either, but I know ushered people in people in people in big there and the orals are like uh so well right now it's NBA playoffs, so I'm watching a lot of the games and stuff. A lot of the advertising right now are all the companies that do the oral and they have all kinds of celebrities that are oh promoting it.

Oh yeah. yeah. yeah. I wonder how effective the oral ones are for versus cuz with the inject injectable ones, it's like a once a week uh like insulin needle injection, but still that still stops people. Um so when they had like an effective oral version Yeah, for sure. So, if it went from 5.8 to 12.4 in 18 months, it's definitely within the realm of reason to think that that number could get up to 50% in like 10 to 15 years. Well, here I'm going to send you S a chart in our group thread right now that shows a chart on it.

That's pretty good. Yeah, I can't find the the exact numbers, but it was it was alarming. I was like, "Wow, that's a that's a lot." So, what I think is going to happen is I think this is going to usher in good coaches, though. Well, it's gonna it's going to usher in an explosion of demand for um personal trainers, coaches, and for gyms. for gyms. for gyms. Yeah. Well, it should be standard that you have to train uh you know, as you embark on it. When this first happened, I remember a lot of trainers were like and gym owners were afraid like, "Oh, no, no one's going to want to work out anymore." I think more people more people are going to want to work out.

Is there a popular medication or drug that is prescribed by doctors when someone comes in with uh osteoporosis. osteoporosis. osteoporosis. There's a few there's a few popular ones, ones, ones, but they're not that great. Yeah, it doesn't matter. No, No, No, I I would I would I would bet on the on the ticker on that. Oh, just cuz you think people are going to get more prescribed. Of course, not that effective cuz it doesn't matter. It's what the doctor will default to because you got you got to understand that it'll cause a rise in personal trainers and so that that because just simply millions of more people will need it.

10% of those people will go to trainers. The other 90% will just go to their doctor and be like, "Oh my god, my god, my god, I have osteoporosis. What do I do? Here, take these medications. How does this happen?" How effective are osteoporosis drugs? I don't care. Doesn't matter. They've got crazy side effects. It doesn't matter, dude. Yeah. I think what's going to happen? I think more people are going to work out for two reasons. One, the obvious ones. I'm losing muscle. Doctor says I need to.

Here's the other one. When you're overweight overweight overweight and let's say you need to lose 70 pounds and then you lose 50 pounds, you got you suddenly become a little bit more motivated 25 to over 50% decrease in fractures. But I don't see a huge reversal of reversal of reversal of well but I mean but that right there that's enough s to get people taking it. Okay. So now look up to me. Look up for me the the leading companies that sell those drugs or whatever.

You start throwing money at the Don't bet on don't put money in what Adam says. Adam says. Adam says. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Remember what happened last year? You know what? You know I won't do it. I'll just I'll talk about it. I won't do it. So for everybody else so everybody else can go make money cuz if I buy it, it won't happen. So I'll do everybody a solid. that would I mean right away that's where my brain goes because let's be honest even though there's going to be a huge surge in personal trainers and people that need help like that that will still only be a percent here's where I'll put the money which company is making red a true tide it's in phase three right now so let's see what company that that's the company the company the company is there don't more than it's only one company who has yeah so if you buy it at compound form let's say you go to not Eli Liy or yeah no let's say you go np hormones.com and they'll have they have trozepitis some magide Oh, Eli Liy.

It is Eli Li. So, there you go. Eli Liy. They've already skyrocketed. Sure. Everybody's projecting that through the roof. So, that's who I would put my What is What is their ticker at? What is their ticker, Doug? Eli Liy's ticker. I don't know. It's I looked at them a while ago cuz I was going to and they were already I Yeah, I would I was looking at I'm looking at companies that are going to have uh GLP1s like L E Eli Lilly LLY. LLY. LLY. And there it is.

$991. I'm looking at those companies. I'm also looking at companies that are researching myostatin inhibiting drugs and muscle building drugs that are non hormonal because I think those are the ones that ones that ones that Oh, they actually might not be a bad buy right now. right now. right now. Don't get it. They would have been they would have been a great little purchase about right on that that dip we just had. They would have been a nice buy. Yeah, we're down at 934 for a minute, but they've been they've been averaging well.

I I think what you're going to see is you're going to see a flood uh a huge surge uh for people interested in gyms. I see personal training because of all these new motivated people who are on a GLP because I've already talked to a lot of people who want to work out because they lost weight, not because the they're they're afraid of losing muscle, but rather they're just like, "Yeah, now I feel motivated because I can finally lose weight. Now I want to work out." So, I think you're going to see that.

I also think it's going to fuel what's already happening in the gym industry, which is uh the the more expensive gyms. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Cuz you're going to have all these people with with and they're going to want nicer want nicer want nicer plan to get off the GLP one as well. I I think it's going to be a huge boom to the fitness industry. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, that's what I think. I mean, it has to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, uh how long it'll take and what percentage of people I mean, that's unknown, but there'll there'll be enough people that will be forced into and to having to lift weights.

So many people are going to do it wrong and going to need help. Yeah, we got to be here for them. them. them. Unless Unless this is like one, this is a little wrench in it. The aliens show us something else. I mean, they may do that. Yeah, we can solve obesity there. Well, I was I was laughing cuz uh there was I got this this like request. We're selling our house right now and like they're like, you know, asking details of like things that are, you know, we we pay for services and whatnot.

And somebody's like, "Do you guys have DSL?" And I was like, "DSL, dude. Like you talking about like dialup?" Like that's like the oldest. Is that is that DSL? Is that what he's asking? asking? asking? DSL? Yeah. DSL? Yeah. DSL? Yeah. Oh my god. Yeah. Where do you 19? Like is there anything to do with DSL? I was like, do you want a fax machine? You want me to throw out a fax machine while I'm at it? Yeah. Was it signals? Was it like a really old person or I don't I must have been, dude.

I was like, this is so weird. I would never like have thought of a request for for DSL. DSL. DSL. It's a broadband internet technology that transmits high-speed data over existing copper. Maybe you could use normal. Does this still it still exists? Well, well, maybe Justin, it's evolved. Maybe DSL is no longer just dialup. Maybe it's net level. It says it's broadband internet now technology. So, it's just it's a competitor. Wow. Are we might be cheaper too something here? Because I would I hate Xfinity. You guys know we were working with a company that Doug had to go send them information and they requested fax only.

It wouldn't take email. So Doug had to go fax. Is that true? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean there's a lot of places that still use that. Why? Why? Why? How? Yeah. How? Yeah. How? Yeah. I think even like Nobody owns Nobody owns Nobody owns Do you actually like legitimately do you scan and then send? I usually scan use a fax service. Yeah. But they have But it's legitimately a fax. Why? Why? Why? Yeah. I I don't know. Let's bring back faxing. I think faxing. Let's do it.

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The kit comes with an MGO 850 plus manuka honey jar, five honey travel sticks, a wooden spoon, and a guide box. One more time, it's manduora.com/mindpump manduora.com/mindpump manduora.com/mindpump and the code is mindpump. Back to the show. show. show. Our first caller is Billy from New Jersey. Jersey. Jersey. Billy, what's happening? How you doing, Billy? Billy? Billy? Holy cow. What's going on, guys? How you doing? How can we help you? I'm good. This is surreal. Feel like I'm really here. That's nuts. Um, nothing. Uh, obviously my name is Billy from New Jersey.

34 years old. I guess I'll just talk a little about myself. Um, 61 61 220. 220. 220. uh have been listening to you guys since like right before CO started and pretty much been going from there and uh you know just been following your programs ever since then. I don't know if you guys can see all the programs I bought. I pretty much buy everything you guys put out which is awesome. Um right now currently in maps 8. Love it. Uh I think it's just an amazing program.

Also, uh I guess my main question would be be be my ankles. I have uh since I was early 20s, I guess I lost the arch in my foot. So, I pretty much have like a flat foot, as funny as that sounds. Um on both feet, so it kind of prevents me from doing squats fully. Uh it's mainly just doing box squats. I know you guys talked about box squats before saying like you don't really get as much out of it as a full squat. So, I guess wanted your guys' opinion of like where I should go about trying to approve that.

Yeah, good question, Billy. And and just to be clear, uh it's pretty darn close. Uh but that doesn't mean you shouldn't uh improve or seek out to improve places uh where you have mobility challenges. So, uh the arch of the foot does provide some stability. The foot's got a lot of muscles, but then what typically uh follows a a fallen arch or flat foot is ankle mobility issues. They typically go hand in hand. Do you have Prime Pro? I know you said you have a lot of our programs.

Do you have Prime Pro? I do not. Okay, I'm going to send that to you. So, in Prime Pro, do the foot and ankle mobility movements and practice them throughout the day. So, short foot, uh piano, piano, piano, Yeah. and uh things like combat stretch and just practice them regularly. Continue to do box squats and then when you start to feel like you're ready, start to practice traditional squats. Go really light. really light. really light. And what you want to do when you're doing the traditional squats once you get good at short foot, so that's a movement that you're going to feel really weird.

Uh it's going to feel like you can't even do it. But once you feel like you can do it, then what you're going to do is you're going to get into a squat with light weight. You're going to do a little short foot. So, you're going to activate the arch of your foot, kind of ground your feet, and you're going to practice really slow, controlled, shallow squats, and work on uh range of motion without going heavier while maintaining that strong arch in the foot. Um, but it's going to take some time.

Uh, probably a good 6 months to 12 months of strengthening and practice to really make a difference. During that time, would you uh recommend or allow him to use like uh squat shoes? Totally. I mean, he could uh So, I do use squat shoes now. Okay, you're fine, kid. Do it. Yeah. So, I cuz any advantage I need cuz it's sad. I don't know even how this happened. Like, I got it diagnosed when I was like 21. So, I've been dealing with this forever now. So, it's it's more common than you think.

Yeah. Yeah. We've had a lot of Oh, yeah. Yeah. I've had a lot of clients like that. So, it's it's Yeah. Yeah. It's it's it's pretty common, dude. So, yeah, it's just there there's muscles in the feet that provide that arch. Um and and it's just it's literally a strength training exercise culture. culture. culture. They're under stimulated. They're, you know, you're wearing shoes that are kind of limiting your range of motion. So if you walk around the house, uh with bare feet, it's going to help a lot just to, you know, reconnect.

But, you know, like you saying, those drills, another good one is to like, you know, get a towel and kind of squeeze uh between your toes and pull. Uh and that's an exercise on its own to kind of work your way into short foot. Short foot's a really hard one to kind of conceptualize. Um, but once you do get that, you'll you'll be able to make progress in that direction, for sure. for sure. for sure. Billy, do do you uh do you make an effort to walk around barefoot much?

I walk around barefoot all day. Now, here's the thing, though. Here's the thing, though, Billy. If you walk around barefoot without trying to actively uh engage your arch, it won't do anything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not, you know, you're not really think about doing that. You're kind of just like just walking around. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so that does make sense. When you practice short foot um and you start to get good at it, it'll take a little while because at first it's going to feel like you can't even activate.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But then as you start to get good, you say, "Oh, okay. There it is. I can think I'm moving it." And then once you start to get good at it, while you're walking around the house, just whenever it comes to mind, just try to activate your arch while you walk. Uh I mean, you can even do it when you're s I mean, I'm I'm doing it in my shoes right now as we sit here and talk. So once you learn to do this, practice it.

you can be sitting at the desk working, doing your thing, and you could you could just be practicing. And the more you do that, the better this will get. And so, it's just it's more of a repetitive thing of just constantly thinking about it and doing it. doing it. doing it. Um, but prime this the movements in Prime Pro will help you out. Practicing that will help you out. You're already doing the uh um squat shoes. That's a good way to get a little bit more range of motion right now.

But keep working on it. You you can definitely improve this. Oh, yeah. You can make Yeah. There's a belief that flat that once you're flatfooted that's it. Yeah. No, Yeah. No, Yeah. No, you're stuck. You can totally fix this. Yep. You can totally you can make a big difference uh in uh the strength and stability of your foot. It just takes time. So, it'll take you Billy like like I said 6 months to a year to really notice uh big improvements and you'll you'll just notice you'll just start feeling it while you're walking and standing like oh there don't overdo it you know it's just kind of like a more frequency thing.

Yeah. It's like the bucket right you guys talking about. Yes. Yep. Exactly dude. Yep. Okay. All right. Um I guess while I have you on, if you mind if I ask the second question. question. question. No, let's go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um I recently have a 4month-old. So I'm doing maps 8 in the morning before I go to work around like 4 like 5:00 a.m.ish. Good for you. Pretty much before I get before I head in in in and it's like only time I can get lifting in during the day during that morning cuz I I have a home gym in my basement.

Barbell, squat rack, everything. I have everything I need. Sweet. Sweet. Sweet. Um, I'm just I guess uh I guess the question I'm trying to ask is I just want to get I I want to get strong, but I I only have time to do like the Max 8 style. Yeah, style. Yeah, style. Yeah, I do have maps 15 like the power lift, but I don't know how to go about it or I should try to put it to the side and just focus on just doing like maps eight style just not at much intensity because of the baby and work and everything.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What do you guys think about No, that's it. Stick to Maps 8. When you feel good, you got good sleep, you push the intensity a little bit. Push it a little. You know, progressively overload if you can. When you don't, you just go in and practice the movement. I mean, you got a new baby, dude. So, you got you got a good year of suboptimal uh, you know, sleep and all that stuff. But that's okay. It's just a season, but you go in the you go in your basement and you're like, "Man, I got crappy sleep last night, so I'm just going to go through the movement." And then you're like, "Man, I got good sleep for a couple nights in a row.

I feel good." You push yourself a little bit. That's it. Okay. Okay. Perfect. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. Well, thank you for everything, guys. guys. guys. You got it, man. Thanks for calling in, dude. And we'll send that to you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Thank you so much. Take it easy, man. Recording. Recording. Recording. Yeah, that's great. Um, you know, I'm glad he said that cuz I had very flat feet. feet. feet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I still have some issues, but through doing things like short foot and awareness, the very first time we were short, do you guys remember when when Br showed us short foot?

I think we all sucked at that. Yeah. It didn't work. I'm like, what? I can't do that. Like there's nothing there. No connection No connection No connection at all. But now I can do it. I actually have a connection to it. So now when I'm aware, aware, aware, I can activate the arch. And if I squat, it's definitely something I'm conscious of. And it does change my technique. I've definitely because I change my shoes. Typically, I'll wear minimous shoes. That really helps a lot to to feel.

Yeah. And have the wide toe box. The cool part about this is like you said, is that if you It takes, you know, 6 months a year of consistently putting work towards it. But once you do that, it's like what I talk about with my my whole mobility kick. It took a long time to to to really get that squat depth and ankle mobility and hip mobility. But then once I got it, uh, maintaining it, it's actually really easy. It was just a few things. I just had to be aware of it and keep up some exercises that I do occasionally and it and it'll keep it up.

It's like and you won't lose it again, but it's the work to get there. It's just seems a little uh laborious. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Our next caller is Adam from South Dakota. Dakota. Dakota. What's up, Adam? How you doing, Adam? for having for having for having you guys. It's pretty cool. Um, just want to say thank you guys for taking the time to do this. Uh, I mean, it's really fun to listen to the podcast and all the knowledge you guys put out. It's really cool.

Thanks, man. How can we help you? Um, so right now kind of in between. I'm kind of finishing up uh MAPS performance right now. Uh, but it's kind of harder to do the three days a week. I normally split it up to uh five or six days a week. Kind of try to turn it into like a maps 15 performance. Um just a little backstory, I just had a baby about 6 months ago now. So it's kind of tough to kind of count on getting a full night of sleep.

I don't I mean I I don't do half the stuff that she does in the middle of the night, but um still like hearing in the next room and stuff like that kind of kind of cuts off the sleep. Um, so it'd be nice to do a little bit more of a 15 program and uh kind of trying to chase some strength goals for this year. So I was looking at either MAPS 15 uh strong or powerlift and I was just wondering if I get your guys' opinion on kind of which would be the best to go forward with.

forward with. forward with. Yeah, good question. I'm looking at your question here too and um it says you're also doing jiu-jitsu. Is that still happening? happening? happening? Yeah. Yeah, it depends on the week. Normally two to three days, but um yeah, still still doing that. Okay. And part of your question was how you maintain mobility while getting stronger. Is that still part of your question? question? question? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, this is actually easy. Okay. Uh if you're doing jiu-jitsu, uh you're going to maintain mobility as you get stronger.

So, you just got to keep doing jiu-jitsu. Now, what would happen the re the way you would lose mobility is if you stop doing jiu-jitsu completely. Or let me correct what I'm saying. The way you would lose mobility for jiu-jitsu would be to stop doing jiu-jitsu and then just start train train. You start losing the skills of how you move and and all that stuff. So as long as you're doing jiu-jitsu, getting stronger um at the same time is going to be fine. Uh maps 15 powerlift would be great for you, but the way you would follow it is I don't think you should work out more than maybe four or five days a week.

What I mean by that is if you do jiu-jitsu one day a week, then follow the then the other four days you do math 15 powerlift. If you do jiu-jitsu three days a week, then you only do two days a week of mass 15 powerlift. And you just follow the next procession uh of of the routine the following week. In other words, the routine is laid out, I think, six days a week. But if you only do two of those weeks, then you just continue on with the following weeks with the with whatever's left over.

And that's it. It's very easy, very simple. But more than five days a week, uh maybe even more than four days a week might be too much too much too much with jiu-jitsu and a newborn. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's that's it. Yeah. Very very simple. Oh, sorry. So you're saying kind of lean towards four days a week and then like kind of if I feel good, maybe throwing a fifth day in. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly.

More more so that just I just based it off how much jiu-jitsu you do. So get say say uh you're only allowed to work out, you know, five or six days tops or five or six workouts. A jiu-jitsu workout counts as a workout. So if you do two of those workouts or jiu-jitsu, then take away two of the maps 15 days. Yeah. So you understand if you do one. Yeah. So so then your volume will be appropriated that. appropriated that. appropriated that. Yeah. And it's probably going to look like four or five days a week total because I know jiu-jitsu is pretty uh strenuous uh on the body.

So, I think I think look at four or five days a week total and then you just trade. You just pick what you're going to do that week. So, if I go to jiu-jitsu today, then I'm not doing maps 15 powerlift. powerlift. powerlift. But if I don't go to jiu-jitsu tomorrow, then I'll pick the workout for maps 15 powerlift. powerlift. powerlift. And just keep in mind, we always talk about this. It's not what you can tolerate. It's what's ideal and optimal for you, right? So, you might be thinking like, well, I I feel like I can do six days.

I'm sure you can do it, but what's probably ideal for you if you want to maintain or actually build strength during this time is you you balance uh what you're doing with jiu-jitsu with your weight training. Doing more is not necessarily going to give you more results. If you're getting stronger uh you know, maybe not consistently because that's not realistic, but if you find yourself generally getting stronger, then you're doing great. doing great. doing great. If you find yourself just kind of maintaining and you're doing a lot or even going backwards a little bit, you might be doing too much.

That'd be a good method for you to back off. Yeah. off. Yeah. off. Yeah. Okay, sounds good. So, so if it's um something where like maybe jiu-jitsu is not very strenuous that day, like kind of just doing drilling and then not a lot of people stay after for like kind of live rolls, would you still consider that a workout day or is it just kind of it's got to get intense to to count that? that? that? No, I would still count it that because you have a baby and your sleep isn't that good.

Yeah, that's a big strong that's a strong consideration, dude, consideration, dude, consideration, dude, is the is the lack of sleep. It really takes a lot away from your recovery sleep. It's actually when they do studies on injury, the the the greatest increase in risk of injury is lack of sleep. It's it's more than like no warm-up. It's more than bad form. It's actually lack of sleep. Injury risk goes through the roof. So, uh, if your sleep is just, you know, inconsistent, suboptimal, which is normal when you have a new baby, then you just got to take that into consideration.

But, you know, your baby's what, uh, what' you say, 6 months old. old. old. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, you got another maybe 3 to 6 months of that, and then after that, sleep will probably get better. Um, and then you can start ramping it up a bit. Okay. Yeah. So, so if I have, I don't know, maybe three or four days that like I could go to jiu-jitsu, but I'm going two days out of it, would it be better if I don't get like an ideal night of sleep, like maybe just stick to a workout that day and and try for jiu-jitsu later on the week if if I do get better sleep?

Depends on how you do jiu-jitsu. So, you know, I was I did jiu-jitsu for a long time. time. time. And I I there were definitely times where I'm like, you know what, I'm going to go easy today. Yeah. And you could go full throttle and then you get caught up, you know, you start sparring with somebody and you just So, it depends on you, dude, how disciplined you are. Like, if you can go in there and just do a light roll, that's perfectly fine. But if you know yourself, you're like, "Look, that that ain't me, dude." Like, light rolling just doesn't work.

It ends up getting out of hand. Uh, then you might want to skip it. Um, and then same thing with the strength training. Uh, there's nothing wrong with going just going and practicing versus really pushing yourself. Okay, sounds good. And then um like is are the are the 15 ones structured differently at all or is it kind of laid out the same? Because I mean I know the other programs like performance it says like you want to hit a certain percentage of like the weight with these amount of reps.

Is it is it still structured the same? Powerlift is like Yeah, powerlift has some of that in there but it's not super important. You can totally go by. How long you been working out? working out? working out? Uh, I mean, probably like 10, 15 years. Pretty consistent. Pretty consistent. Pretty consistent. Go by feel. You're fine. Just Yeah, totally go by feel. For someone like you, I wouldn't don't worry about percentages because there's going to be times you're like, "Well, today I'm supposed to do 90%, but man, I don't feel good." Like, go go go by percentages.

percentages. percentages. Yeah, that's the really powerlift's the only time that really matters. But even in our 15, we don't really focus on that as much because it's really low volume. Yeah. By the way, strong would be great, too. Uh, so what we'll do is we'll send you powerlift and then I'll make sure Doug sends you a bunch of discounts for other 15s that might be good for you. Yep. Yep. Yep. Okay, sweet. Thank you. And then, uh, another real quick question. It would, um, powerlift be something good like cuz I I I know it's like a little bit longer rest sets.

Would that be something that like we could do together for our workouts? And like while I'm resting, she does a set and then kind of changing the back and forth. She's 6 months postpartum. Yeah. So, I think starter would be more appropriate for her. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Just have her run a cycle of starter starter starter uh and then have her jump into powerlift afterwards. Uh because she stability she's just six months. Plus, you said something in the beginning that she probably gets worse sleep than you do.

So, yeah. So, I' I'd have her go for a cycle of starter. You know, um low back and hip pain and stuff gets really common postpartum just because of what happens during pregnancy and birth and all that stuff. And starter is is much better for that. Yeah, once she gets back to normal though, she can definitely do that. Yeah, probably a year out like you know, then she's great, dude. That doesn't mean she won't make gains on starter. By the way, she's gonna make progress still.

still. still. Okay, sounds Yeah, cuz that's that's her. I mean, I I've had a pretty tough time trying to even convince her to do like a 30 minute workout. She used to do two hours a day for Oh, wow. You have your work cut out for Yeah, I know. Trust me, I'm I'm trying. And so it's like if I can steer in a direction where it's like cuz she'll work out for 30 minutes and be like whoa this isn't compare anything to what it was when I did 2 hours.

Well yeah body's no crap dude. But you know what she's also just a reminder she's got muscle memory. She was trained like crazy before. before. before. The mistake that fit that really fit women make postpartum is they compare themselves and and their workouts to what they were doing before way too soon. Yeah. And it takes it takes a lot longer than people realize for for a body to kind of get back to normal. She'll feel good soon if she's not already, but she's still not quite where she was.

Pushing too hard will actually set her back. So that's she needs to kind of consider that. consider that. consider that. Yep. Yep. Yep. Okay, sounds good. And then uh is there any way I could get this recording so I could I could play it for her? That advice from someone else? Yeah, dude. Yeah, dude. Yeah, dude. For sure. on May 15th. Yeah. So, when it airs, then you can just be like, "Hey, honey, check it out." out." out." Plus, you can go to So, there's there's uh quite a few episodes where I talked about this exact challenge.

When Katrina, after we had Max, uh she wanted to jump back into maps aesthetic and I had to I forced her to do map starter. I talk about that a few times in the podcast. If you go to uh askmindpump.com and use the AI, it'll probably find you all those clips of that discussion. So you can hear me talk about my wife wanting to do more and me explaining to her why she just needs to do map starter and the benefits of that. So you can look that way.

But so that plus Doug will you'll get this live in May 15th. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Sweet. Thank you guys. All right. You got it, man. Thanks for calling in. calling in. calling in. Yep. Thank you. Yep. Yep. Yep. Record. Record. Record. You know what I like about what he said? He was real humble in the beginning. He's like, you know, I'm not getting good sleep, but you know, my wife's doing a lot. It was a really nice thing for him to say, which uh which would be good when she listens to Well, he probably because he knew he's been listening.

been listening. been listening. Better get that right. But you know, you know, when people are playing a sport and they're strength training at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, there's always the question of mobility. Am I going to get tight? Am I going to lose function? M if you're concurrently practicing the sport and you're doing everything with appropriate volume cuz the other mistake is that you overdo every muscle bound myth comes in. That's right. Like if I'm still playing soccer or football or jiu-jitsu or whatever while appropriately strength training because you could also overdo it.

Then the whatever strength gains I get will get implemented and incorporated into my movement. If I take three months off, go strength train, build some strength and muscle, then go back play my sport. Now I'm clumsy clumsy clumsy because I've got new strength. my body's a little different, throws things off a bit, might feel tight. So, it's like just keep doing both. Yeah. If it's important to you, you want to maintain that skill by just light drills and going through the movements. So, it doesn't have to be with intensity, but uh to maintain your body's recognition of those movement patterns is really essential.

I think I think the hardest thing to convey to a person like this is more to do with this. So, he's been lifting for 10 to 15 years. Sounds like he's got a it sounds like he's also married somebody who is very fit. Yeah. fitness related and active. active. active. Uh does jiu-jitsu, works out, got he's got great we didn't name do all his numbers, but he squats, deadlifts, good weight, like he's strong, you know, telling that person that, you know, a maps 15 and take some days off on maps 15 sounds like are you sure like if I'm what if I only do this much in jiu-jitsu?

It's like that'll be the greatest challenge for him is because he he'll have the desire to do more thinking that more is going to get you more results. And that's the hardest thing to tell somebody who's used to doing so much. training volume that it may not suit you uh or serve you with the lack of sleep that you have plus what you're already doing with jiu-jitsu, you know. Totally. But again, just to make the the other point again, I'll say it differently. If you took an athlete because I think we tend to negate the skill aspect sometimes with sports sometimes like the skill is the most important thing obviously like if it was just about being strong, bodybuilders will be the best athletes.

It's not. There's it's a skill. If you snap your fingers and make an athlete 10% stronger instantly, they're going to go out in the field and suddenly be slightly off. Yep. Yep. Yep. Because they're used to moving in a particular way. And now timing is off a little bit. Things are off a little bit and you actually start to deceleration that kind of, you know, that whole balance shifted. balance shifted. balance shifted. So, it's so important to do them both at the same time so that they can grow together.

together. together. Our next caller is Jenny from New Jersey. Jersey. Jersey. Hi, Jenny. Hi, Jenny. Hi, guys. Hi, guys. Hi, guys. How can we help you? I feel like I know you already, but it's nice to sort of meet you for real. Thank you. Thank you. How can we help you? you? you? Um, so first of all, um, as usual, I want to thank you guys for all the great content you put out. I'm a lover of learning about all things exercise. So, your podcast has been one of my number one sources these days, and you guys are very much appreciated.

Um, I'm going to read my question, and there is a little addendum that I have at the end. Um, so I'm a recovering cardio addict. I spent the last seven years doing very little strength training and a whole lot of endurance running. Two marathons, nine half marathons, and three pregnancies and postpartums later. I think I've officially burnt myself out. I've been listening to the podcast for a couple of years, and I've heard you tell countless callers to cut back on the running, and I'm finally ready to take this advice myself.

My question is, or one of my questions are, should I still limit the amount of walking and other low impact cardio I do to try to get the most muscle gains as I focus on lifting? I know you guys give uh walking the green light, but with my personality and background, I will take a two-mile leisurely walk and turn it into a five mile hike at any chance I can get. Um, I also am trying to gain a little bit of weight. I had a recent DEXA in February that put me at 19.1% body fat.

And I know I feel a little bit better with a little bit more meat on my bones. So, I'm trying to figure out how do I know if I'm overdoing it physically, even though I feel like what I'm doing mentally is not enough compared to what I'm used to. And then my little update is um since my DEXA 2 months ago, I've gained about 4 lbs. Um, I'm filling out my clothes again in a way that I like and I feel like I'm on the right track with my body composition, but it's really just the mental aspect that I'm still struggling with.

Um, I found that since I'm running less, usually once a week if that. Um, I'm trying to find other ways to move my body and I'm getting a little bit compulsive with it, like going for a couple walks a day, taking the dog for a walk. Um, I feel like I've sort of developed two identities. So, there's the lifter who wants to lift, eat, and recover, and then there's the runner who was always rewarded by doing more, which I'm learning is not always the best case anymore.

Um, and social media doesn't help because my algorithm is constantly showing me hybrid athletes who can do it all, which makes me feel like I can do it all, too. And then I end up exhausted at night trying to take care of my three kids, and I regret my decision to even try. Um, I've basically just been feeling pretty run down. I had labs done last week that were all normal. So, at this point, I'm pretty sure it's self-inflicted. self-inflicted. self-inflicted. And, um, I'm taking a D load this week, trying to get my figure out my, uh, where I want to go from here.

So, any advice would be welcome as I try to navigate this transition from being a runner to a lifter while still trying to enjoy both aspects of the different modalities. Yeah. Great. Yeah. Yeah. Kudos to you for reaching out. Real just question on the um any uh do you track the steps when you when you do these days? You you walk all where you at? Great idea. I have a Corman watch and my typical um steps are between like 12 and 15,000 a day. That's an active day.

And then I shoot for 8,000 minimum. So even on a rest day, it's 8,000. Okay. It's not bad. Okay. I thought you were going to say something crazy like 20 some thousand plus. we need to calm down all the walks. Walking is good. Um, you know, obviously you don't want to be neurotic about it and obsessive. Um, and it should be something more leisurely and stuff like that. So, it it sounds like you're mindful of that. You can see yourself getting away with it. But 12 to 15,000 steps is not bad.

It's not it's not like a obsessive crazy I've had clients before that, you know, it's 20,000 plus and it's like that's all they do is they constantly have to be moving. And it sounds like you you're an active person and it sounds like you're moving uh the the right direction. Are you following any of the MAPS programs right now? I'm not right now. Um well, I I have not yet, I should say. I work from I work out from home, so I'm limited. I have a barbell.

I have plates, um a bench, but I don't have a rack, so I'm kind of limited. I can really only lift what I can pull up, what I can like power clean. So, um, and I have dumbbells and kettle bells, so I wasn't really sure what would be an appropriate program with my limited, um, equipment. We have dumbbell only versions of a lot of our programs. I first off, I got to say that your a self-awareness and the way you communicated everything was amazing. amazing. amazing.

So, it gives me a lot of like this like very hopeful like I'm very hopeful uh because the way you communicated your struggles and challenges with all this was so good. It was such great self-awareness. So, that's the good news. The bad news is the answer to your last question, which is how do I know if I'm still overdoing it, and you're not going to uh that's not something that you have a sense of yet. Uh so your best bet, there's a couple directions we can go with this.

Uh one road is to focus on just getting stronger. And that's going to kind of that can kind of be a north star. It's not perfect, but it's hard to get stronger and overdo it. Uh, and often you won't get stronger if you're overdoing things. So, if you're getting stronger, it's a good sign. That's what I'm saying. The better road is to work with a coach and then let them coach you through this process so you can relearn or learn what it feels like to do it in an appropriate way.

And what that means is you trust them because you're going to always feel like you're not doing enough. This is just your this is just how you are right now. Like for you right now, doing an appropriate amount feels like way too little. little. little. So, yeah. continue to cut back and despite cutting back and then I look at my numbers and I think I'm cutting back and then my activity numbers show that I'm still I'm still I'm still getting just as much activity in per week that I was.

I'm just doing it in a different way. So like I'm cheating myself. myself. myself. Yeah. See, you're so self-aware. It's so great. So you you're just you just can't trust your feelings because your feelings are uh oriented orientated towards doing too much. So, uh, when you work with a coach, you trust them. You work with them for, let's say, six months. You're like, "All right, tell me what to do and I'll just do it. Tell me what to do and I'll just do it." And the whole time you're like, "This feels like way too little.

I'm feels like I'm eating way too much." And you just kind of trust. And then you'll start to re learn like, "Oh, okay. This is what it feels like. Whoa. I'm starting to feel good and I have energy at night." The one thing that you said that is really uh that I really appreciate that I think is important to focus on is less about how many steps you're taking and whether or not that's too much. It's, hey man, at the end of the day when I'm taking care of my kids, I'm exhausted.

And so your numbers could look great, but if you're feeling like you can't do that job at night that you that you obviously value, then it's probably too much. So if you're feeling exhausted, it's probably too much. Whatever the numbers are, it's just too much. And taking care people don't approve. People who don't have kids, especially people who don't have multiple kids don't understand just how much work it is, just how much mental work it is. and just and it it definitely is something that that uh uh that hampers recovery and all that stuff.

And you got how old are your kids? Um four, two, and 15 months. Yeah. Good luck. This is a lot. It's a lot. So, you know, walking 15,000 steps and lifting weights to do it plus taking care of three kids is like it's going to burn you out. Uh so, um those are the two things. So, one direction, let's just just see if we can get just keep focusing on getting stronger. Use that as your gauge. If working with a coach is an option for you, I could have someone call you, uh, that's the best option and then they'll they'll really guide you kind of through this process.

The other thing too I want to ask you that would help with this is is and I think I know the answer, but I I just want to be sure, is the connection to movement movement movement a body image thing or is it more of a I don't like to sit still? It's more of a mental I don't like to sit still. sit still. sit still. Okay. So, it's like So, does it help with anxiety, racing mind? like sitting still feels like you just want to drive yourself crazy.

yourself crazy. yourself crazy. I think I just strive to be the healthiest version of myself. So, I always feel like more movement. Like I I work from home, so I do sit during the day and I'm working. Sometimes I'll take my laptop, put it on the treadmill to get my steps in. I I just want to be the healthiest version of myself that I can. And I know that there is a upper limit to how much movement I can do while accomplishing that. Um, but it's not it's not body image because I've I found the more I'm lifting actually the better my body image is becoming.

I sort of building myself in a way that I've never done before because I've always kind of just ran and felt like I was breaking myself down. So, it's been a refreshing change of um to me exercise in a different way. So yeah, it's more just like just like just like you're doing to take care of myself. You're doing you're doing really good. You're you you seem really smart and you seem like someone I can challenge. Is that okay? Do you mind if I challenge you a little bit?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If it was health, uh I don't think you'd be overdoing it right now. right now. right now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it might not be health. I think in your mind it's health, but in your in your heart or in your body it might be more like I don't like to sit still because I feel like what? I'm not being productive. I'm not I'm not doing something. I should be doing something. I'm being lazy or I'm anxious. So, that's that's where I think you want to go because if it was health, you wouldn't overdo it.

I would know when to limit it. Yeah. It's only been recently that I felt physically like my routine is wearing me out, though. I don't know if it's because now I I'm a mom of three and I'm in my mid30s and I just don't recover like I used to. All the above. you what All the above. you what this might look like to to get to where Sal's going. Like if I was coaching or if you were getting coached, what it would look like is we would I would see what a normal week of this activity looks like.

And you've told me some things already where you walk while you work with your your treadmill desk. You go out for a walk or a couple walks. So I I'd let you kind of have a week like that to assess and see where we're moving, what we're doing. And then I might challenge you the next week. Okay, what I want to do is let's cut out that evening walk that you do every every night for this long or what that. but leave everything else the same.

And then I want to know how you feel when I made you do that. How did you feel when I wouldn't let you go for your, you know, 600 p.m. or whatever your last walk or thing is? And then that'll help us get to the bottom of what's driving you to go do that when I'm like, you don't need it. You've already made plenty of steps. We lifted weights. You're healthy. So, what is making you want to go do that? And then that would help us get to the bottom of the feelings that you're having and then trying to work through that and then focus on the getting strong thing.

And so it might be this this slow process of pulling back a little bit on it, assessing what's going on with you, how you're feeling, and then then connecting the dots because if if I do my job good and I and I scale you back, you should see an increased energy level with your kids and sleep and all those other things. And so hopefully you then can connect the dots of this is what healthier you start to like it. Yeah. And then you like that how you feel and it's like, okay, this is all I need.

I don't need to be doing 15,000 steps. I can do a 8,000 step day and that's still active with my lifting and all my kids I'm chasing around u and be very healthy and fit. Is is coaching uh something that that you'd be interested in? I can have someone call you. Um yeah. Yeah, I would definitely consider it. it. it. Okay, let me have a coach call you. Um and worst case scenario, we'll send you uh a program that I think uh would be appropriate. appropriate.

appropriate. Yeah, Mass 15 would probably be the best workout for you. that I thought I was going to going to going to recommend, but I'll have a coach call you. But I want to tell you, you have like when I'm work when we work with clients, clients, clients, there's an attitude uh and a self-awareness that if I hear it, I'm like, "This is going to work." You have that like for you're going to succeed for sure. You've got the self-awareness. You've got the right attitude. attitude.

attitude. It's the biggest hurdle in the You're going to do really, really well. Um Um Um you're already on the right track. Yeah, you are. Yeah. I think it's just it's the runner in me. I've heard you guys say before, you know, when you're doing aerobic and endurance, it's always more more is better. More miles, more time. And when you shift to strength work, it's that's not the case. So, I'm just trying to kind of dull that part of my brain and relearn how to exercise in this.

We've got to create a new identity. You've identified as a runner. You've identified as a runner for a decade, you know, and so Yeah. And and so it sounds like that's what this is. And it just take a little bit of time. Reps. That's all it's going to take. But I already feel like Sal said, I feel really confident in you because you're already connecting the dots of what it feels like to build a body instead of, you know, tear down or or beat up and cut into your body.

You're going to build into the body and health you want. And so you already have the right mindset of where we need to go and you're heading the right way. So you'll do great, Jenny. All right. Thank you. Can I ask you one more quick question? So um I had the Dex in February. I was planning on doing a repeat in um like about six months to make sure I'm on the right track. So theoretically, if I were to gain like six pounds or so total, what proportion of that would I expect to be from fat versus muscle?

Like what is a what is the ultimate ratio there um that I should be looking for? Is it like pretty much even in someone who's looking to I would look at it more like this. Um uh are you getting stronger? And then a body fat percentage that gener that typically means good overall health and leanness. So hormone health, uh, energy, resilience. resilience. resilience. Um, so if you're getting stronger, I think your body fat you would be best probably in the low 20s. So like 22 23% and that's a nice uh good range.

Once you start to go below 20, then you start to mess with health a little bit for women. I I also have you been listening to uh me talk about uh me coaching right now, Karen? now, Karen? now, Karen? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I just I want you to be careful of getting hung up on that percentage, too, because that could really spin you out in the negative way. So, you might need to just gain body fat. Exactly. So, what could happen is was similar to what happened to her was her body just needed a higher body fat percentage to be healthy and we put on weight and then according to Dexa, it was all body fat.

And so that could really negatively impact you like, "Oh my god, I'm doing this all wrong." When no, you're not. Your body is that's your body telling you you needed some more body fat on you and you're still actually heading the right direction. And here's what I mean by the strength side. Okay? When we see that muscle is connected with longevity, what we're looking at is a correlation to strength. Strength is a much better predictor of longevity and health than muscle. So what Karen experienced was an she was hitting PRs like crazy.

She saw her body fat percentage go up. No muscle gain on the DEXA, but her strength went up like 40%. And so it's like we are going in the right direction. But the DEXA would conf would make you would mess with your head like oh my god, I gained 5 pounds of body fat. No muscle. Yeah. You just hit a 30 lb PR in your deadlift and your your body fat percentage needed to go up. Yeah. up. Yeah. up. Yeah. So we're doing the right things.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Got it. Y. Y. Y. All right. Well, thank you guys. You got it. Thanks for calling. Yep. Take care. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Love our attitude. Yeah. And selfawareness around it very much so. Yeah. But three three little kids. What she say 15 months? Two years. She's got her hands full. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, bro. That's a lot of you know, you're at home, you work at home on top of it, and then you got your kids. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, dude. Like, of course you're going to it's going to what what you did before now all suddenly feels like too much.

much. much. Oh, yeah. This is a radical shift. And so, yeah. For to her point, it's like it's going to take some time to really adjust that mindset. She's doing good though. She really is. I mean, it sounds I mean, even her gaining some weight and got rid of the running and she's turned it into just some walking. She re she recognizes that her leisurely walk for 2 miles turns into five aggressive really quick. And so so so the only challenge is like at the end she's like, "How do I know?" And it's like you're not going to it's not going to feel right until you really learn how to what it's supposed to feel.

And if you try is probably the best gauge for that. And if you try and measure it through Dexa scans and things like that, it could really steer you in the wrong direction. Um, again using the example with Karen and I, what happened is just like I know we're doing all the right things, but it's just that her body needed a higher body fat. And she was similar. I mean, Karen was like 17 and so still it it is funny, right? Because we use muscle as the uh measurement of of health.

And part of that's because it's visual and it looks good, but if you actually look at the data, it's strength. More muscle usually means stronger, but having a lot of muscle and not having a lot of strength does not mean longevity. depending on your health, health, health, right? So, it's actually the strength that's the most important thing. Next caller is Christina from North Dakota. Dakota. Dakota. Hi, Christina. Hi, Christina. Hi, Christina. Hello. How you doing? Hey guys, Hey guys, Hey guys, thanks so much for taking my question.

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, you got it. How can we help you? Um, can I give a little bit of background before my question? Of course. Go for it. Um, okay. So, in about January of last year, 2025, um I started listening to women like Stacy Sims and Gabrielle Lion. Um so, it was that time that I realized I was not lifting often enough or heavy enough, and I definitely wasn't eating enough. So, in February, I increased my calories, um, and started training like 3 to four days a week, focused on progressive overload.

Um, however, I was only at like 12 or,300 calories at the time. So, an increase for me was going up to like 1,500 a day. Um, and I definitely saw improvement by doing that um, over the next several months just by lifting more and increasing my calories. But then it started to stall and eventually I felt like I was regressing. Um, I don't know, I just kind of felt like I was losing muscle mass and getting soft. So January of this year is when I discovered your podcast and that's when I realized I realized I realized um 1,500 calories still was not enough.

So I again started to increase my calories, got up to around 1,900. Um but then 2 weeks ago I had surgery. So I have to take 6 weeks off from any heavy activity. So all I can do is walk. So, what I'm wondering is during this time, can I go into a slight deficit and would I still be able to preserve muscle while doing that? Um, because during this most recent calorie increase, I did put on a few pounds that I would like to take off.

So, um, but I don't want to compromise any muscle, which I know I probably will by not being able to lift for 6 weeks, but just wondering what a good, um, strategy would be. would be. would be. Definitely not cutting your calories. Yeah, that's that's the worst thing you could do. could do. could do. Yeah. I mean, cuz you're we're not sending a signal to with lifting weights to build muscle or keep muscle. And then in addition to that, do cutting calories would be the fastest way to lose muscle.

Um, I would recommend especially where your calorie intake is. This is where I think something like EAAS would uh benefit someone like you. Um, and and actually I did add those in two weeks ago. So, every day I've been adding um a scoop of EAS to salt water. Good. Good. Good. Yeah, Christina, when when um when you increase stress on the body and you simultaneously go in a deficit, you've you've added more stress. So, um, postsurgery recovery is catabolic. There's nothing you can do about, right?

It's a catabolic state. It's also a stress state. You're healing. If if you want to make it more catabolic, go in a deficit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great way to uh slow down recovery from surgery and accelerate any potential muscle loss. What's probably a good what's going to and this is good news. If during this recovery process you gain a little bit of body fat that's actually going to be a bit protective and I would not be worried about what's going to happen afterwards. You'll bounce back pretty quickly.

By the way, the reason why uh before you noticed your gains flattening out at 1500 calories was because you were just not eating enough and you were still overtraining. overtraining. overtraining. So So no, don't cut your calories. Keep your calories where they're at. Keep your protein intake high. Okay, don't keep your fat too low. You need the fat for recovery uh as well. Maintain appropriate movement. So whether that's walking or whatever and when you start to heal uh slowly get back into exercise. Don't don't rush into it.

Muscle memory is a beautiful thing and you'll see the muscle come back especially if you're feeding yourself and you'll feel great. So change nothing. That's right. That's right. That's right. Way. Do you think I mean I guess for context I'm 51 and I'm about 116 lb. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Um and I'm 46. So I mean I guess I don't know if what you can do with that but I mean is 1,900 calories. Does that sound like it's right now it's fine? Yeah. But when you get back into working out, uh, and I see in your in your, um, how many days a week when you're like training and everything's going good, like how often what do what do your workouts look like throughout the week?

Um, I would do like a four days a week. So upper body, lower body, a day off, then upper, lower. And walking every day. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 1900 is probably still a little low. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think I think I think that just freaks me out. Yeah, of course. Well, yeah, it's it's well, it's also you're heading in the right direction and we'll slowly get up there. So, it's not like, hey, 1,900 solo, get yourself to 2500 right now. It would be a process of slowly increasing u potentially to or andor reducing reducing reducing the training volume.

I'm assuming you're talking about like about an hour workout every time you work work out, too. Yeah, it's about 45 minutes to an hour. So, I would lift in the mornings and then walk. I mean, now I've been walking twice a day since I can't lift. Um, honestly, you'll probably end up somewhere around 2,300 calories at some point. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. No problem. I mean, if I were coaching you, I'd probably get you up higher, but I' i'd walk work work with you. Um, but it'd probably end up around 2,300 calories.

Feeling good, strong, lean, everything feels good. You don't want to be too lean, by the way. I don't know what body fat percentage you were maintaining yourself at before. Do you know? You know, I have a a home scale, but I know that those are not super accurate. But according to that, it was around 22%. around 22%. around 22%. Yeah, you look lean. You're Yeah, you're good. You're good. You were doing the right stuff. right stuff. right stuff. But right now, you can just keep it where it's at.

Don't cut. How did you already do the surgery? How How far How far are we? Uh uh tomorrow is two weeks since the surgery. surgery. surgery. Okay. And you have six weeks is the recommendation to be off. Oh, you're fine. Yep. So, I have another four to go. Oh, you're not bad. Yeah, you're going to be good. Yeah, you're fine. you're going to be good. good. good. Muscle memory is amazing, Christine. You're going to see like you're going to train for like two weeks and be like, "Whoa, it all came back." But keep taking the EAAS, keep the calories where they're at.

Um, that if you want to hang on to the work that you the muscle you have built, that's the best way. And that's also the fastest way to recover like Sal said. Yep. Do you have a red light uh panel? I don't. I've wanted one. Okay. Let me send you a link with a discount code. Uh because red light therapy uh muscle preserving, it's good for skin, can also accelerate healing from surgeries. from surgeries. from surgeries. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Uh reduce scarring, all that stuff. Um so I'll we'll send you a link with the partners that we work with with a discount code.

So that that could be useful during this period of time. Awesome. Thank you so much. You got it. Thanks for calling in. All right. Thanks, guys. Actually, a great question. Uh someone might be like, "Okay, I'm not moving much because I'm recovering, so I'm going to go in a deficit." Oh, boy. You want to make your muscle loss really fast. fast. fast. Oh yeah. Well, I mean, it's like I said, you're not healing. We're we're not sending a signal to hang on to any muscle. And then in addition to that, we're reducing calories.

It's the fastest way to super fast way to lose muscle. Yeah. To lose muscle. You're going to lose some muscle no matter what, but you want to make it happen worse than like you said, also slow down the recovery process. So, if you want to get back to the gym and get healed and get back, like low calorie is not going to speed up that speed that up either. All right, I know you like that episode. If you did, check this one out. One of the keys to fat loss is protein.

It's true. If you're not eating a high protein diet, you're not going to burn as much body fat as you can. So, today's episode, we're going to talk about the smartest ways to use protein for fat burn and to build muscle. You got to watch this. I wish I understood this earlier in my career. I think it was probably probably probably almost 10 years in when I started to just focus on this with clients. I knew it was important, but I don't know how important. important.

important. Yeah.