Stop Powering Through Pain — Do This Instead | Johanna Franzel

Key Takeaway

When stress hits, try this: Instead of immediately trying to fix how you feel, ask yourself, 'Is it possible to work less hard to be right where I am?' Notice where you're holding tension—shoulders, jaw, breath—and gently release it. Then engage your senses: What are five things you can see? Four you can touch? This simple shift moves you from anxious rumination into present-moment awareness, creating the spaciousness needed to respond rather than react.

Episode Overview

Dan Harris talks with somatic practitioner Johanna Franzel about regulating an overactive nervous system through body-based practices rather than mental strategies. Franzel shares how chronic illness forced her to develop techniques for inhabiting her body with more ease, leading to practices that create spaciousness and access kinder internal voices beyond the critical mind.

Full Transcript

Transcript of Stop Powering Through Pain — Do This Instead | Johanna Franzel from 10% Happier. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

Hey, hey. Welcome to the 10% Happier podcast. I'm your host, Dan Harris. As somebody who's been dealing with uh anxiety pretty much his entire life, I am very interested in how to regulate my nervous system, which seems to be on high alert all the time, mostly for no good reason. So, I'm very excited to talk to my guest today who's an expert in this. Her name is Johanna Franzel, and she's the author of a book called Write Yourself Home. She's also a teacher and a somatic practitioner.

I will let her describe exactly what a somatic practitioner is. Johanna, welcome to the show. Thanks, Dan. I'm delighted to be here. Why are our nervous systems on tilt so much of the time? Uh, you know, it just it feels to me like things can happen and my body is reacting as if it's a life or death threat, but it's, you know, just a bad email. That's a great question. I had a teacher who liked to say you can have lunch a thousand times, you get to be lunch once.

You know, there is a kind of physiological disposition to scan for what is the threat out here. It really does take practice, I think, to cultivate the ballast, let's say, to be able to kind of move through that. And then and then we could throw in modernity and socialization and capitalism, right? And the an attention that is constantly splintered, ways that we're pulled in a million different directions. And so our nervous system can end up feeling incredibly fractured. And you know, the less regulated we are sometimes, the more we're sort of like looking for strategies in the mind and trying to sort of analyze what's going on.

And then we sort of lose touch with our ground. I I know that certainly in my own past, I would have loved own in my own past, I would have loved to have lived shoulders up in a way. Um, and chronic illness absolutely interrupted that narrative. And maybe we'll come back around to that. But so I kind of went kicking and screaming into learning how to manage my nervous system, but then you know, you walk into the glass door of of your strategies enough times and then you you realize you have to find a different way in.

Just to pick up on that term you you used uh lose your ground. I think you're really talking about like the ultimate or one of the ultimate uh spiritual and contemplative cliches of like getting out of your head and into your body. And um it's there's a reason why it's become a cliche because it's a very powerful idea and we've just ringed some of the meaning out of it through repetition. Part of the goal of this conversation is really to to revivify the concept. Um there's a a quote that gets used a lot by some of my meditation teachers from I think a Henry James novel where he's describing one of his characters, Mr.

Duffy, as living a short distance from his body. And that just seems like how I mean I'll speak personally I I even after all these years of meditation it's just a mode I fall back into. Totally. That's beautifully named but it's not really part of our early training. We're not we're certainly not rewarded for feeling and then I think we're given the instruction listen to your body and we have no idea where to start. The two settings are like I'm either fine or I hurt. A therapist had told me that I needed to listen to my body using a sort of low stakes decision.

And so I was in the tea aisle at the supermarket absolutely freakishly like holding up tea boxes to my sternum being like tetley. Okay, is this a yes or no? Celestial seasonings, you know, like imagining, you know, I was like expansion that is yes. Like I had this very rudimentary idea of uh what listening to a body was. And I also think I regarded it at the time as a kind of parlor trick. Like I was calling it listening to my body, but what I really wanted was to get on with it so that I could manage my life better.

And it took me a a lot of practice and some of what's shared in the book to actually understand that listening to my body was not just um you know like a a parade or a trick. It it was actually enough spaciousness, enough safety we could call it, to be able to listen to something else that had a more nuance signal. Which tea did you land on after that uh supernatural um paranormal uh uh activity in this in the supermarket? Oh, Dan, I wish I had a good answer.

I mean, I was I really was like, would a cheaper option be a yes? Would it be more expensive? Like, how do I get in? And I mostly just felt like kind of a freak standing there and not knowing. Tell us a little bit about your story. You referenced it. You did not come to this like as somebody with a career interest in um uh the Touchy Feely. There's a different timeline where my life looks very different, but basically 20 plus years ago, I was working in public radio.

I was running a network for young producers through PRX. Um I was going to graduate school at Harvard to study arts and education and narrative. Uh, and then I started developing symptoms of something called Crohn's disease, which um is a chronic autoimmune disease that involves the part of the body we'd all really rather not talk about. And I uh really like truly did not want to talk about it. I was like, what happened to my plan of like, you know, radio is is ephemeral, like there's nobody there, right?

As my symptoms got more and more undeniable, I became a a very frequent flyer in hospitals and with doctors and with practitioners and um and I [clears throat] started to understand that while western medicine could keep me not dead, which was [snorts] like no shade, very important, it had very little to say about what it meant to really live in a body like mine. Um, and so for that I needed a whole different set of tools and that kind of set me back to studying like basic anatomy and physiology and things like neuromuscular therapy and something called biodnamic cranioacral therapy which is a mouthful but sort of like what are the more subtle body ways to companion a body um that make it easier to inhabit and that can create a different kind of nuance uh that isn't just you're okay or you're not okay.

And so the practices in this book are kind of um an alchemy of those two threads of having been, you know, really immersed in what is the story that we're telling, what are our habits, how do we, especially with narrative radio, you know, we're telling stories about ourselves. It's not like literature. literature. literature. And then also, what does it mean to inhabit a body with more ease? like what does it mean to begin to develop a barometer that isn't just out here scanning for threat but actually has a bead on my own internal experience and and so that's kind of what led to these series of practices and because I'm a teacher it was very natural to then start bringing that and sharing that with other folks and so did your career shift um I referred to you based on your bio as a somatic practitioner is that what you are now and what what is that actually I mean I know you talked to apprentice humple who is amazing and the way that they talk about, you know, the the sort of consciousness underneath cognition is really an underpinning of how I approach sematics.

You know, how we begin to develop bodied awareness beneath cognition uh then makes it easier to live in the bodies that we have. And so, you know, both in workshops and in sessions, part of what I'm working with folks around is is how we locate that internal barometer. How we start to inhabit a body with a different kind of ease, a different kind of spaciousness, a different kind of permission. Um, that isn't just running the story of I'm either I'm okay or I'm not okay. Either I'm, [clears throat] you know, I've succeeded or I've failed, but the the entire richness that exists between those two poles.

But I definitely do think about language and listen to how folks language and use language and you know the metaphors that we use give a lot of information about how the body is feeling its way through a situation. How is your Crohn's disease after all of this work and career transition? You doing okay? doing okay? doing okay? I wrote this book coming out of a really rugged time. I'm now you know almost 25 years into it and I can live a really good life. Um but I think one of the things that folks who live with chronic illness and there are I don't know 25 million of us in this country is that we have to be very honest about our margins you know so some of the old habits of bypassing that you know we've all had I can't sustain like my body will call [ __ ] you seem to be referencing a false binary that that is a mental habit that we may or may not be aware of of you're I think you phrase it as you're okay or you're not okay.

Yeah, thanks for that. So, one of the um turning points in my own career was I went to this talk that was called what if all is well. It was by Margaret Rosenau and she was a um biodnamic cranial practitioner, one of my first teachers. And Dan, you might appreciate this as a fellow Bostononian cynic, but I I heard what if all is well and I was like what girl? What if all is well? Like what cuckoo crazy approach to life is this? Like have you not been paying have you not been paying attention low these 400 years?

Like clearly nothing is well. And certainly in my body nothing is well. And at that point, you know, I was a decade into disease and really really felt quite brittle. like was still very much trying to preserve an okayess kind of a presentation of things are fine. And when I went to this talk, what I it what had sort of cracked open was that she was not talking about, you know, bypassing or denying what isn't well, but actually starting to like center on what is well, center on the health, let's say.

And that really changed something because to begin to to get intimate with what I call my practice resource, you know, like what feels good actually in this moment, not as a side quest, but as the main event that really started to widen the aperture on what was possible and it it wasn't polyianaish, right? It it wasn't like a I mean, all respect to gratitude practices, it it was not that. It was really like there is actually a tremendous amount of health here. If you're alive, there is so much more health than there isn't.

And so, can you actually start to develop a connection to what it is in your life that brings you alive? something as simple as like your dog and and to be able to regard that experience not as an idea but like what happens internally when you think about this thing that resources you you know and that lens that is and I I know you know a lot about this but that that sort of nervous system lens that I think of as a sort of a view from underwater right so it's not precise but it is giving us a lot of present time information so things like texture or temperature or sense of pace that starts to open up.

Oh, it's not only that I'm thinking about this thing, which is great, but I'm actually starting to to get to know what good feels like in this particular body. And I can then start to sort of map my life with the places and people and things that actually allow me to breathe a little bit more, feel that spaciousness that I definitely did not have in the grocery aisle with the tea boxes. [snorts] And so so that really um yeah that that really set me on a different path and then starting to work with people around this sort of expanded idea of getting to know what resources you in a present time way.

A few things before we hear from our sponsors. I've got exciting news. If you love this show but do not love listening to the advertisements. A subscription to my app, 10% with Dan Harris, now includes a private adfree feed of the 10% Happier podcast, available on whatever platform you choose, whether that's Apple podcasts, Spotify, or right inside the app itself. Plus, along with an ad-ree listening experience, the app also gives you a growing library of meditations from world-class teachers, exclusive live stream events with me and many of our incredible instructors, and robust and supportive discussion threads where you can ask questions, share your struggles, and connect with our growing community.

We've got a free 14-day trial if you want to try before you buy. Join the party. danh harris.com. We'll be right back after this. When you're ready to start your business, Northwest Registered agent helps you do more than just file paperwork. You get all the tools to build a real business identity from day one. A business address, website, phone number, operating agreement, free guides, and more at no extra cost. There are lots of unglamorous aspects of running a business, and you want good partners to help you with those.

And Northwest Registered Agent has been helping small business owners and entrepreneurs launch and grow businesses for nearly 30 years. They are the largest registered agent and LLC service in the US with over 1500 corporate guides. These are real people who know your local laws and can help you and your business every step of the way. With Northwest, your business is set up to stand on its own from day one. That means your home address, personal email, and phone number stay private. If you want more later, you can get a free account and Northwest grows with you.

Form your business, then get more domains, email addresses, phone numbers, and services at any time you're ready. Don't pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for what you can get from Northwest for free. Visit northwestregisteredagent.com/happierfree and start using free resources to build something amazing. Get more with Northwest registered agent at northwestregisteredagent.com/happierfree. I want to signal to the viewer and listener that we're going to go deep on the practices. Um, and you you keep referencing them and I'm not picking up on them, but for good reason because I have a bunch of questions I want to ask before we get to the practices.

But one of the questions I want to ask is I get it. You're saying we can focus on where we are healthy even if we are we have a a chronic condition. Yours is Crohn's, mine is anxiety, but that doesn't necessarily mean all is well. uh because some part of it is definitely not well. I think part of what you're signaling to Dan is is the kind of paradoxical dance in the center of this and maybe you can speak to it in maybe there's a more elegant phrase in Buddhism but I think you know both the acceptance of what is here the focusing on what is well and also the kind of pulling on the thread to what what could really be better right like that that move that is not you know I I really I can appreciate that because yes there is a lot of evidence of [ __ ] that is terrible um But but to to let that sort of be the only place where we go um you know from from that sort of more compressed place it's hard to even imagine what else is possible.

And so that kind of for me sematically sematically sematically expanded more supported place actually helps me come up with different moves that I I can't when I'm in a curled up ball of how you know how much terrible there is. Well, let me say a few words to see if I'm understanding you correctly and then you'll hopefully just come in and correct me where I've stepped in it. People often get hung up on the difference between acceptance and resignation. Like, I am not going to accept you.

You're telling me to accept that Trump's in the White House or whatever. Change begins with not being at war with reality, seeing things clearly, and that and then you can take the steps. And so I I think of that as maybe a rough analog for what you're calling for here. Like yeah, can can all be well even when all is not technically well. This is the way things are right now. And so there is a fundamental okayess with okayess with okayess with reality. And reality. And reality.

And uh we can make two moves. One, we can focus on the things that really are indisputably going well. and what can we do to relieve tension, disease, etc. that may also exist. But it starts with being just cool with the way things are. That is to me one of the exciting things that happens when you work more with the body rather than the mind because it is a very direct move towards what feels better. The signal comes right in. If I'm listening through the fascial body, for example, you know, the connective tissue body, if if I'm compressed, it actually feels bad.

you know, to be able to actually start to move or stretch or work with more expanded capacity in a bodied way actually feels better. So, it isn't just an idea of, you know, I hope this is better, but there is a there's a kind of supported move in that direction, if that makes any sense. The other thing I like about working with the body and also with this idea of spaciousness which we haven't touched on very much um but also has a lot of ties to meditation is that you know one of the ways that I approach working with a body is um you know this idea of presence without scrutiny.

You know like the a kind of oblique attention. Yeah. I think I think a lot about a nervous system as a toddler. You know, if you've had I have a child, you have a child, like they do not necessarily love it when you're like right in their like what are you doing right now will shut down all creative action. But they would really like you to be like in the same room doing your own thing like present with them. But that allows like a a different movement to happen.

That way of holding space with a nervous system or with a body um or in my meditation practice also leaves room for like something else gets to happen that my you know sophisticated calculating mind can't can't always foresee. foresee. foresee. When you say spaciousness and then mention in uh that one could achieve or approach uh spaciousness through treating the nervous system like a toddler. Just can you just say a little bit more about practically how how we could do that? You might also have a beat on this in your own meditation practice, you know, where it's like we're not we're not here to stare directly at something or ask why necessarily.

All respect to why questions, but beneath why is usually a kind of scrutiny that has some judgment in it. And so if if we want to do different actually then we want to hold a space that has the capacity for something mysterious or unpredictable to come through let's say or something that we haven't foreseen and so if for example if I'm in a session with someone or if if I'm in a workshop um I am very aware of staying in my spine of staying in my back body of staying pretty wide so that I'm not like tracking right in um to you know an idea that they're sharing or a piece of writing that they're sharing but really letting it breathe a little bit more.

And so um it it's a it's a different quality of attending to what's here um but it's not it's not poking there. I heard you describe how we could be spacious with somebody in our presence like um you're you're just kind of settled back into your own body and um allowing whatever is happening in front of you to unfold. But is there a way to be spacious with our own body and what does that mean actually? Yeah, great. I love it. That that might take us back to resource a little bit.

One of the things that I love about working with resources because if if if something feels good, it tends to be more spacious. Would you be willing to think about a resource? Like something that you Okay, I don't recommend people cuz we're complicated and difficult, but you know, place or a moment in time or an animal that when you think about it, it's just totally the channel of sweetness. sweetness. sweetness. My overweight cat Azie when he unfurls his generous belly to an oncoming visitor. visitor. visitor.

Hopefully. Oh my god. Hopefully you Oh, that's so great. So, so that view from underwater piece, right? Like, so if you're thinking about Azie and unfurling towards you with that incredible belly and you kind of listen to yourself from the inside, what does your chest feel like? What does your sense of space feel like? What does gravity feel like from here? What do you notice? Like a pleasant elevation at the right below the solar plexus at kind of the top of the belly. I feel a little bit.

Yeah. Yeah. Nice. Anything else you notice texture-wise? You've got this We've got this elevation at the belly. Texture-wise, I mean, there's certainly the image coming up in my mind. Um, and really seeing it pretty crisply. Yeah. I feel like we all are, Dan. That great belly is really beautifully invoked. invoked. invoked. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's uh it's it's ample. So, this D, it's ample. I mean, for me, like when when I'm here with you, it feels more spacious. Like we're working less hard. Azie enters the scene and um it is less tight, it is more available, you know, we're looser and so it's a place from which it's easier to be creative and it's easier to be kind to ourselves here.

I have to admit that I am I am super jealous of the first line of your book which I think is so good. You know that like the voice in your head is an [ __ ] because I absolutely I am familiar with that voice. But one of the things that working more with my body gifted me or in bring like if we bring Aussie into the scene is that other voices started to show up and and they were a lot kinder. They were not all [ __ ] and sometimes it was as simple as like I'm thirsty, you know, like the things that I would just be like quiet down now.

Our important work is out here, you know, where we're being productive. But even like you know basic bodily needs that I wouldn't necessarily pay attention to. Um this kind of withstanding I think a lot of us can habituate to the more that I was able to and with you know clients and folks in workshops see that spaciousness come up the easier it was to do different and to access uh different stories about what was true for them and what's been true for me. So, just to put a fine point on this, I think what you're saying is that if we're noticing that we feel like [ __ ] for any number of reasons, we're stressed, we're toppling forward um to the next thing on our to-do list, we're carrying nursing a grudge from some unhappy interaction in the morning with our spouse, whatever it is.

Um, one move we can make is to call to mind what you're what you're calling a resource. Um, I think in some circles psychologists have called this like a happy place, which has been mocked as sort of silly, but I think there's actually quite a bit of evidence to support it. Just bringing to mind your version of Azie the cat can relax the nervous system and allow for a kind of spaciousness. Am I on point here? here? here? Yeah, you totally are. I mean, and and probably you you feel it right now, like even at the mention of Azie, it feels like we get a little easier.

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Right. Right. Right. And and I do want to say one thing that's important, Dan, because um when things are really hard, that's a very hard move to make. And and that's that's one of the um practices we might end up talking about. But, you know, especially as somebody who really knows chronic illness and chronic pain, if someone walks into the room when I'm feeling particularly crappy and is like, "Think about your dog." I I would have words, you know, I might have to start with like, "Let me actually tell you how I am from here because I I have to start where I am." And once once I can be honest about that, that opens up a different kind of breath.

Then I can be like, "All right, now let's talk about Rosie the dog who also has an ample belly." But let me pick up what you just said there. So a calling to mind a resource like a dog or a cat or a toddler or whatever it is can be useful in let's say garden variety suffering. But when you're in a more acute anguished moment physically or psychologically psychologically psychologically we need a different set of tools. And you mentioned something about what's happening. Oh you said something there that I want to go back to.

What was your phraseiology? phraseiology? phraseiology? Yeah. So we I mean we want to be honest about what's happening. Would this be a moment to talk about one of the practices that kind of connects to this? So one of the first practices is something called inventory and um you know but we're we're working with the idea of invent inside of inventory. So with these practices we always start with a body. Um you know so to begin with like is it possible to work less hard to be right where you are?

And then and I'll pause there just so we can like oh yeah my shoulders could be lower. My feet are on the on the floor. And from there, you know, we make this move to an exercise that a lot of people are familiar with. Like what are five things I can see and four things I can touch, you know, three things I can smell, two things I can, you get the idea down through the senses. Senses are, you know, a really common portal that we're we're all familiar with.

So that helps us orient to like what is in the room with me right now, you know, and then from there we get to the event. What are five things I love to see? Four things I love to touch, you know, three things I love to taste. Usually for taste, I've got to go to at least 10 cuz I really love food. But so that's starting to like sort of secretly create a list of resources. But it does start with what's actually here. And [clears throat] if someone, you know, I appreciate you use the word anguish, Dan, Dan, Dan, you know, there are moments like I'm not a big fan of rules, but when someone is in real anguish, then then that presence without scrutiny, then like I'm just here and it's awkward and I won't be staring at you or asking why is its own kind of balm, right?

It's it because when we feel terrible, not having to explain ourselves or justify or make somebody else comfortable with how hard it is is itself um a kind of support. Okay. So, you said two things there that I want to disambiguate and unpack. We'll come back to presence without scrutiny, but staying with taking inventory. Let's just walk through those steps again if people want to put this to work in their life today. life today. life today. So, we start with that this invitation that I always use at the beginning of every workshop.

Is it possible to work less hard to be right where you are? Stop on that for a second. Sorry to keep interrupting you, but that's a really interesting question. Is it possible to work less hard to be where you actually are? that feels like if you it's a bit of a mouthful, but if you could remember to ask yourself that question throughout the day, life would be much more easeful. easeful. easeful. And I I hear that from folks all the time that they will, you know, like keep it on a piece of paper or put it on their computer at work just because, you know, sometimes we we have this idea that to to make a big move in our lives, it's got to be something dramatic.

But I think so much is interior is is not actually visible to the outside. But it but it can feel radically different to inhabit ourselves. So, thank you so much for that pause because just that is like, okay, I'm working less hard. You might not know it, but I know it. And so, you know, now I'm a little bit more available to what's in the room with me because I've taken a deep breath or relaxed my shoulders, unclenched my jaw, whatever it is. I've noticed where I'm holding some tension in my body and I've released it.

released it. released it. Yeah. Exactly. and I'm a little bit more here. here. here. I interrupted you, but that's step number one in this taking inventory. And so then we're just kind of and and this will be an exercise that a lot of folks are familiar with, but you know, I'm looking around the room. What are five things I can see? You know, couch cushion, lamp, muggate. Uh what are four things I can touch? What are uh three things I can smell, for example? for example?

for example? two things I can hear and one thing I could taste. I really appreciate that you're slowing us down here because even that it's like, you know, when when we hear embodiment, I feel like the the senses are like they're a very familiar place because especially for those of us who are like either I'm on the channel of I hurt or it's quiet to begin to open up the senses really tunes us to something else. Okay, what's in the room with me? People talk about, you know, this is again another one of these contemplative cliches, um, wellness cliches, getting out of your head and into your body.

But this technique, which many of us have heard before, but maybe haven't actually done, is it it seems to me a great way in moments of psychological stress where you're in your head, you're spinning out on something to like pull you out of that because you are actually I mean from a on a brain level, I think you are moving in these moments from the amygdala, the fear center to the prefrontal cortex, the more rational part of the brain. Um, and I I've had this experience.

You know, I've done a lot of work with exposure therapy because I have panic disorder and elevators and airplanes can be a nightmare. And and my exposure therapist will, you know, in moments where we're in an elevator together be like, "Yeah, just what does it feel like to breathe right now without even controlling the breath?" Like, can you just tune into that? And it's very hard to be making fretful projections when you're feeling your breath. And I love that you brought in that prefrontal cortex piece because you know part of what we're doing in that moment too is cultivating the kind of kind observer right like the sort of neutral ally that kind of third space you know it's not you or me but it is that kind of witness that is here that is not scrutinizing let's say but that is like oh yeah as you're doing like what is it like to breathe right now because if you're tracking that it's harder to be in the spin of everything else right or in that amygdala space.

amygdala space. amygdala space. I want to pick up on the kind observer or the presence without scrutiny, but there is a third step in the inventory and that's the invent part of the inventory. inventory. inventory. That's right. So, from here, I mean, this is kind of a sneaky way to start to get at your resources, you know, rather than like just make a list of what you enjoy. Like, what are five things that you love to see? And they do not have to be in this room.

Rosie, you know, the peianies. What are four things? So, we we use the same that we're counting down. What are four things? And again, not big on rules, so it might be more. Four things you love to touch, you know, three things you love to smell. And so, you're starting to kind of open up or fire your brain in these places, in these senses these senses these senses that that are real sweetness for you. And so, we're getting to know like in in a very specific way for you what what brings you alive.

I realize that's kind of a cheesy term, but like you know your particular precise geometry of of what enliven you and and that is a great catalog to keep with you. We can't have too many things that we love and then make it easier to walk around. This is random, but you were talking about how you like to eat and then, you know, maybe not just do one thing you can taste. I have an adorable nephew, Benjamin. And when he was a little boy, very little boy, he went through a period of time where he would walk around and always ask the question, "Is this edible?" Oh my god, Benjamin's a genius.

Yes, I mentioned it to him the other day. I saw him and he he didn't he had only a vague faint memory of it, but I have very very in fact, maybe that memory is a resource for me. I mean, it feels like it where I mean, it's so sweet and it's it's it's it's a triggering one for me of my daughter who's now 16, but when she was little and she would have a really good meal, she would say, "My belly is full, but my tongue is tasting for more." Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm just like, "Oh, girl, tell it." Like, yes. That feeling of like, "Oh, I'm so full, but please, please, more of this." this." this." Support for today's episode comes from Square. Whether you're starting fresh or scaling fast, Square helps you keep up and get ahead. And right now, listeners can get up to $200 off Square hardware when you sign up at square.com/go/happier. square.com/go/happier. square.com/go/happier. That's sq.com/go/happier. Visit Square to get started because the right tools make all the difference. I can tell you as a small business owner myself that you really do need the right tools, specifically when it comes to getting paid, which is the life's blood of any business.

I personally love supporting our local businesses where we live and many of them use Square and I can tell you that those transactions are always very very smooth. Square launched its most powerful tools yet designed to give local businesses a competitive edge without the complexity. If you're ready to sell smarter, run faster, and stress less right now. You can get up to $200 off Square hardware at square.com/go/happier. square.com/go/happier. square.com/go/happier. That's suare.com/happier. Run your business smarter with Square. Get started today. Okay. Okay. So, let's come back to something else you said because somewhere in this discussion of the practice of taking inventory, which I think we've now fully uh provided for for folks, you talked about something called presence without scrutiny and and I wanted to come back to that to understand what what exactly you're pointing at.

pointing at. pointing at. Yeah. I mean, that ties a little bit back to what we were working on with spaciousness, that kind of kind observer, that sort of wide angle. I am not here to stare you down. I'm not here to ask you to explain why you're so messed up or why you're so sick. I'm here to actually, you know, be present in a way that is open to whatever shows up here. This might be a moment to [clears throat] make a turn to talk a little bit about some of the practices too because there's two principles um that really tie into this.

So, the book is called Write Yourself Home. The idea is embodied writing, but for folks who aren't writers, you certainly wouldn't have to follow that particular stream. But there are two principles we start every workshop or session with. And the first is is reverence. And the metaphor I usually use when I when I talk about reverence is like if you were staring at a newborn or Benjamin, you know, when he's just born, you you're not like, hashes could be longer. You're like, wow. Right? like look that that's that's incredible.

Like [clears throat] she's amazing. Like there's there's nothing corrective about that lens. And so when we're doing the writing, if we choose to, we're really bringing that spirit of reverence to it. But the other principle is permission. And that is, you know, the idea is that there isn't a barometer outside of yourself. You know, so if you hear a a prompt or an inquiry or a question and you're like, "That's not for me, or I want it to be different." Or if you're like, "What I really want to do is eat chocolate in the corner," then then chef's kiss.

That's the idea. We could also call it irreverence, right? We don't have to take it too seriously. So to me, there's a kind of like we we get a really nice range when we bring these in. And and that to me is part of that presence without scrutiny. Like I can bring a reverent attention to whatever comes here. And I can also be spacious and and like not get up in your face and there can be tremendous permission for what comes through and and so that might be a different way to kind of invoke that same spirit.

Does that feel like it answers the question? I think what you're saying, and I want to come back to embodied writing in a second, but I think what you're saying about presence without scrutiny, is that as soon as we can relax our nervous system a little bit, we're more available to whatever is going on, either internally for ourselves or or for whoever may be crossing our paths. Is that close? That's right. And it feels better to boot. boot. boot. Yes. Even while we were sitting here, I noticed, oh, my hamstrings are tight.

And so, I just like put my leg out straight and shifted my foot back and, you know, did that for 20 seconds on each side. And like my body feels better sitting in the chair. It's such a small move, but it's a move from withstanding or numbing out or I'm fine with air quotes to like actually what are the accommodations what are the accommodations I actually need to make for myself so that it's easier to show up here more fully. fully. fully. And and as I do that, it's it's easier to be more present.

I get kinder voices that show up. I find more creative solutions to things um because because I'm working less hard and I feel more supported. supported. supported. So there's a whole practice around this specifically which is like making little adjustments. You've used this phrase several times. So you aren't withstanding. I I think you mean by that like we we kind of white knuckle it through life and and and sometimes in very small ways that have real consequences. Maybe the old me would have just sat here in a low-grade pain which would have made me less available uh to you.

But you have a whole practice in the book around being on the lookout for withstanding and then easing things up. I can't remember the name of the practice but maybe you can tell us about it. it. it. Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. I mean and and you're following the sequence really beautifully too Dan because you know like we start with resource we start with getting to know what good feels like here and so we have like an expanded capacity of uh noticing internally and as we do that you know we feel better but good news bad news we also have a better capacity to feel which means that you know some of those places where we would have been like it's it's fine I don't need to so what I've been buying pants that are too small for 3 years or that my hamstrings are screaming right now.

And so, you know, this kind of like pause to notice it's a little bit like is it possible to work less hard, but also what are what are real adjustments that we can make in present time, which don't which don't sound like, you know, groundbreaking, but in in the same way um you know that meditation is like it's a practice that that feeds itself over time. You know, we we see the benefits the more we practice. we start to incubate this more attuned capacity to listen to what's happening our body and it pays dividends.

There's, you know, I mentioned this in the book, but I grew up a couple blocks from Boston up I grew up a couple blocks from Boston Harbor. My dad ran a sailing center there. Um, he's also a competitive sailor. So, all vacations such as they were were on sailboats and very analog like he's got the chart in the down below and he's calling up for me to follow a compass compass heading like an oldfashioned compass. And so very early on I learned that you know like the the difference of a single degree might seem minuscule but you follow that out over miles you end up someplace totally different right so and I think that's that's more how nervous system works it's not like we're hummingbird fast it's more like the barge you know these these small practices we incubate here we follow them out over time we have a more habitable life and so this practice of withstanding similarly it's not like me loosening my belt is a revolution.

But then down the road, I'm I'm not sleeping at the will of my own life. And what I noticed with a lot of folks that I've worked with is, and I'll be curious if this tracks with your own experience, healing, such as it is, I don't love that term, which we might get into, or we could call it growth, is less like I cross the finish line with this triumphant like ribbon breaking across my chest, and more like I whatever I could summon to be okay with things that weren't okay, I no longer can.

It's almost like growth by fatigue, you know, as we are more attuned and we're we're more awake to what's here. It's like [ __ ] I had I was doing all this with standing or accommodating and I I can't I can't pretend that this thing that was okay is I I can't I can't even dress it up. So, in this way, I could imagine, you know, it starts small like I'm I'm a little bit more attuned to what's happening in my body. So, I'm unbuttoning my top button or loosening my belt or buying new pants or stretching my hamstrings or shifting in my seat, whatever it is required to not withstand so that I can be more available to myself and other people so I can be more relaxed and happy uh and in in this body and in this mind that those small seemingly small things can lead to, oh yeah, I should quit this [ __ ] job or I'm in a bad relationship or whatever.

or whatever. or whatever. Yes. I I really think they can. And and you know, I think one of the misguided ideas we're sold is that that sort of attunement would make us more selfish. In fact, I think it makes us a lot more generous because we're really showing up here and we're really learning how to meet our own needs. And so, we actually are more available to be attuned to what else is happening in the room and more interested in, you know, collective feeling better. there's a there's a different availability um that is not just it's it's the opposite of naval gazing.

It's like you know because I've shown up here fully as fully as I can. I'm really here and excited about what is happening for you. I talk about this a lot, man. This is a huge theme in my next book of of um of how self-love properly understood not as like bath bombs and incense, although if that's your thing, go for it, but self-love like really as like having the same warmth towards yourself that you would have toward Azie or Rosie. Um that can unlock an upward spiral because you are more available for other people.

And since other people, in other words, relationships relationships relationships are the most potent variable in human flourishing, you then get happier, your relationships get better, and up you go. Um, it's not a perpetual thing, but it's more like this kind of, you know, I would bracket what we're talking about here today under like my understanding of self-love. Just like having a warm, supportive relationship to yourself can have really profound ramifications starting at unbuttoning your top button on your pants. Totally. Yeah, exactly. I'm excited about your book.

Yeah, that there's a chapter in my book called Full of Yourself. It's sort of about that, you know, that idea, especially, you know, as a young girl coming up like the worst thing you could be was full of yourself. I mean, you could be a lot of terrible things really things really things really uh in patriarchy, but but you know that like how how much what you're talking about with self- loveve upends that like actually the idea is like please fill up with yourself like be so full that you upgrade every relational field you walk into and cultivate because you are resourced enough to really attend to to what's happening.

what's happening. what's happening. Let's go back to uh embodied writing again. your book uh is called Writing Yourself Home. And my understanding is much of what you're doing is taking these practices that we've some of which we've already described including taking inventory inventory inventory um and adding a really quick twominut writing prompt uh on top of it. And as you said earlier, like you don't have to do the writing part if if you're like me and like not into writing prompts. you you can just do the the intellectual and sematic exercise but just say a little bit more about embodied writing.

So for me, writing is a potency. I love writing and I know not everyone does. And so I feel like it's important to say off the top exactly what you just shared, Dan, that we come back to permission, right? Like if you're not a writer, then there's there's still a lot in here that is rich inquiry into, you know, the the intelligence beneath cognition. I also think for a lot of us, writing is so twizzled up with judgment that really shuts down creative discovery. And so for me it's it's it's really a wide openen invitation to to write very freely.

Exactly. Could be for two minutes, could be for five, could be not at all. But the chapters are very short. The prompts are very accessible. It is not diary writing. It really does start with a body. So you know every practice begins with a way of getting into the body or a meditation or a visualization or a breath exercise. They are really designed to be very accessible and digestible. It sort of moves through six parts and the writing can be nice because you have kind of a record of oh how is my relational in inner relational field deepening for example like what what have I noticed about what I'm shouldering or what matters to me it is really a kind of invitation to live well in the body you have and that can be anybody I would say I come to it of course from chronic illness but most of the people I work with don't and if we're earthside we have bodies and they're complicated and we know pain and we know hurt and we're managing and so the idea is these are tools to make that easier.

easier. easier. So let's talk about some of the specific tools. There are a few others uh that I think are worth talking about. One of them is called Museum of Follys. What is what is that about? I went to a SA I went to Green Gulch for a week as a 22-year-old farm volunteer and I didn't know how to properly tie these hippie pants and like flash the entire SA like you know things that were like very like oh my god I can't believe I did that.

So Museum of Folly is sort of like an invitation to bring that like very loose absolutely not blaming lightness to like get into your body, you know, breathe gently and just kind of like survey the ridiculousness of life. It could be a museum and what would it look like? Like if you if you wrote the what do you call those? like the little cabs that go by the exhibits, you know, how would you describe particular medications or or things that you did or your sister's lipstick that you absolutely ruined or the terrible music and dances, you know, whatever shows up here.

The idea is really not to bring over seriousness. I'm a great fan of range. You know, we can be talking about the pains and traumas and we can also be talking about flashing the sa and getting hit in the face by a flying fish, which has also happened. happened. happened. What is the use case for this practice of Museum of Folly? Like what what at what moment would one want to do this? I really like humor. It it can be a kind of way to break through my own brittle seriousness.

So, you know, I think if particularly, you know, we've all had those days we're like, "Oh my god, like this. I can't believe how many things have gone wrong today." Um, and so like in moments like that where there's like a forehead slapping like look at this guy, guy, guy, this thing and this thing happened and sort of to be able to catalog in a way that brings some levity um to what we've endured even. So on a day where you're feeling regret and maybe even shame for something to leaven and airate the situation by bringing to mind past follys and like the unavoidable conclusion has to be you survive those you'll survive this that this is not the only moment right like there will be future humiliations and you know how do we show up for ourselves in those moments and and how do we bring levity There's another practice called inner friend.

What's that about? Inner friend is sort of a thread through the entire book. You know, that cultivation of the voice that isn't just the [ __ ] And so it surfaces at a lot of different moments, but we were talking about full of yourself. You know, this invitation to sort of like be the adult to your younger self, like the friend that is able to be like, Dan, fill up with yourself. Like how like what what does a day look like in which you you are full to brimming?

Like your 14-year-old self, your 26-year-old self, your current day self, you know, to have that that that part of you that's an advocate for you or that's on your side, you know, that that shows up and companions you in these spaces. I will say it feels worth mentioning, you know, like at the one of the last scenes in the book is the last time I was hospitalized for a significant amount of time was in 2019. I'd been doing these embodied writing practices for decade at that point and the curtain pulled back and my roommate because you share hospital rooms like turned to my husband and was like, "Your wife really knows how to advocate for herself in here." And I had no idea that somebody had been watching all of my interactions.

Um but but she was like, "Yeah, she really she's really not getting pushed around. She's not a jerk, but she really knows how to speak up." And and it was this interesting moment because it wasn't because I was like deeply indebted to and respectful with all of the people who were keeping me alive. But when the doctor was like, "You're not in pain anymore, so we're going to cut off your pain meds." I was like, "That's simply not true." Or when they were like, "The guy in the seventh floor has Crohn's and he's doing all better and you're not." I was like true enough I am not you know so I just I had that inner friend piece was was present in just being able to name like I hear you and respect you but let me name what's also here um because there was just a capacity an enlarged capacity to inhabit from the inside and so that's another expression another expression another expression I find this piece to be incredibly powerful and there's a there's a bunch of research here that we spend most of our time with an inner narrator ator who's muttering under his breath or her breath and you know critiquing and judging and wanting to be elsewhere or otherwise or what whatever it's it's mostly the voice in my head is an [ __ ] and and yet there is a way and again a lot of evidence here work done by Kristen Nef and Ethan Cross in particular that you can cultivate a kind of best friend internally who's just kind of coaching you through out your day not not self-indulgent letting you off the hook because that wouldn't be actually in your interest really like the the wisest part of you who is available in moments when somebody asks you for advice for example is just with you all the time I find this super compelling it is something that I work on personally for people listening to this and agree yeah that sounds interesting but I don't know how to get there what would you recommend it might sound like a small move but but that resource piece like just getting to know what good feels like from the inside.

inside. inside. It's I mean it sounds like so microscopic and certainly the mind could be like come on buddy you're wasting our time like I want a to-do list of how to find this inner friend but I but we are creating more fluidity we're creating more of an updated version of who we are and we we're creating a different kind of selfrust right and so this like cultivation of selfrust can also I don't know if safety is the right word to use here Dan but a sense of I I've got my back.

I'm in here and there's no finish line. Like every day I'm doing the best I can, but I I am cultivating a different relationship with these voices that are actually very much advocating for me and, you know, supporting me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I think what you're saying is this is a practice like it takes it takes a while to to rewire your inner talk track. Like that's no small thing. And you can start really small by just noticing the next time you're really uncomfortable or really unhappy and bringing to mind your version of Azie with his large belly and fish breath and seeing how that relaxes the nervous system.

This can build on itself in a cumulative cumulative way where you start to have a a more supportive inner environment over time. And there's an example in the book of a client that I work with called Agatha who's a healthcare practitioner and she was feeling really crappy and she just felt like she wasn't getting anything done. And um because the session was online, I was like, "Well, can you just go take your medication now?" And she did. And I was like, "Oh, you know, good job." And she was like, "Good job for a glass of water.

Like what the hell? Like is that like am I your child?" And I I didn't realize until she and I love her. She's salty and wonderful. And I I didn't realize until that moment that that actually I I talk to myself more that way now. I mean, that's that's part of the practice, too, is like we're building that bodied sense. We can start right now, but like you can hear you, buddy. So, we might as well like recruit a voice that's like, "Oh, this is really hard for you today.

You You do not like the situation. You You took your medication and you didn't want to. Good job." I can feel myself moving in that direction personally too. It and it's taken a lot of work just it started in like moments of real acute suffering and using those moments an alarm bell to puck myself off the ledge, put my hand on my heart as Kristen Nef, the the godmother of self-compassion would recommend. If that sounds disgusting and embarrassing to you, I get it because that's the way it sounded to me.

But a lot of evidence to show it works, not only in the research, but also in my own personal experience. But then moving toward just kind of having a daily companion that is just kind of with me the way I would be my with my son when we spend the day together. And that is super helpful. I forget all the time and that's fine. It's a much more easeful way to live when I can remember to do it. What does it sound like when that voice shows up?

shows up? shows up? The thing I find myself saying to myself all the time is you're good, bro. Like you're good. you know, like, yes, you just said this stupid [ __ ] thing in a meeting and you're worried that everybody's gonna think you're a bad person, whatever, but like you're good. You can apologize. Um, and um, even if everybody quits because they hate you, it'll be what it it is and you'll start from there. I love that. And I love that you call yourself bro. yourself bro.

yourself bro. That's the only way I can do this [ __ ] is like to just make it slightly less embarrassing. embarrassing. embarrassing. Totally hear you. Yeah. Yeah, bro. That's right. right. right. You said something earlier that I do I want to come back to and it now feels like the appropriate moment to do it. You don't love the word healing. Why? Why not? Why not? Why not? Again, a context is having lived with a chronic illness for almost 25 years. And so that treadmill of like I just have to get better.

I just have to fix myself um can be an excruciation. I also think it's not that healing isn't meaningful, but it's so braided with the idea of fixing. Um, and I I actually love the word fix in English because it's like it's transparently shows us what it is, right? Because to fix is to repair, but it's also to like lock in place. But if something moves, it's alive. Movement is the signature of life. And so, in a lot of ways, like to fix something is to make it less alive.

In a lot of ways, what I think about these practices is is it's like how do we unfix ourselves, you know, like how do we become more fluid, more permissive, kinder, so that we're not just trying to like I I have figured it out. It's in a steel box now. I'm okay. Because speaking from a body that definitely is often not okay, that frame can feel kind of cruel. And even in terms of healing, we can also have this idea of like you'll be good once you're different than who you are now.

And so instead, how do we cultivate our strategies got us here, right, Dan? So, so instead, like how is there enough safety or permission or support so that I get to make different choices? I don't have to lose the old strategies, but I I get to open up what's possible for me. And so, and and that that to me too is a way of becoming unfixed. So, I realize I'm playing a little bit semantically, but I hope I'm conveying like I just feel like people, you know, sometimes I've been asked like, "Oh, are you healed?" And it's like I I mean, there are flares and then there are not flares and and that will be the cycle till I'm till I'm out of here.

And so, if I get too attached to it's good now, then it's punishing when it's not. it's not. it's not. And you said before that maybe you preferred the word growth because I I can see how that would work. you aren't healed from chronic illness. I'm not healed from chronic anxiety. I hope this never happens, but you may end up back in the hospital. I may have another panic attack um or, you know, have to go back on a standing dose of clonopin or whatever it is because I've had some sort of setback.

Growth can cover that. like you you were in the hospital in 2019 2019 2019 and you were advocating for yourself in ways you had never advocated for yourself before. So there was on some level a setback in your quote unquote healing, but unquestionably also a progression in your growth. I'm so glad you clocked that and and it's it's really interesting because you know I've been hospitalized plenty of times, but in 2008 I was so ashamed. I told I mean my partner and my best friends, but I didn't tell anyone.

I didn't tell my parents. I didn't tell family. It was just like um it it felt so and I don't know if if you've had this experience that shame piece is right. I mean it's I want to swear a lot here, Dan. I know we're allowed to. It feels uncomfortable. Uh, and so it was it was wild to then, you know, fast forward 11 years and and I told everybody and I leaned on them and they showed up in ways and so that inner friend who was like, "Yeah, this this version of health and like you're saying with anxiety like that is present, so is so is Azie, so is Benjamin, you know, so are all these beautiful things that you've built in your life right alongside and those those are not again side quests like those are the main event." I think this comes back to the writing too because there's a way in which you are unfixing yourself through the writing and telling a different story and also just by the fact that you're telling a story leaning in consciously or subconsciously to the fact that things are always changing all the time.

That's why we can have stories. language is a support to constantly be updating and reframing, you know, how I describe this unfolding life, which for me is a written practice, but again, not for everybody. That that really helps me kind of deepen into and explore, you know, whatever this growth that is absolutely not linear looks like. Two questions I always ask as we're vectoring toward the close of our time together. The first is, um, is there something you were hoping we would get to that we haven't?

I think we I think we did a great job of of covering a lot of bases. Yeah. My my hope is that this is a this these practices are a support to anyone who needs them. Um and I I think we've talked about that in a lot of different ways. So I don't think so. Final question is can you just remind everybody of the name of your book and anything else we should know about you that you're putting out into the world? Thanks. Um yeah, the book is Write Yourself Home.

It's a creative guide for living well in the body you have with embodied writing and movement practice. It's a very long subtitle. Um you can find me at my website and um I love teaching this material and sharing this material. It's a total great joy for me. So I'm just incredibly grateful to talk with you today about it and to share it with folks. with folks. with folks. Johanna Franzel, thank you very much. Great job. Great job. Great job. Thanks so much, Dan. Great to be with you.

you. you. Thank you so much to everybody who worked so hard to make this show. 10% Happier is produced by Tara Anderson and Eleanor Vicil. Our recording and engineering is handled by the great folks over at Pod People. Lauren Smith is our managing producer. Marissa Schneiderman is our senior producer. DJ Cashmere is our executive producer. And Nick Thorburn of the band Islands wrote our theme. Also, one last thing before I let you go. Our Summer Sunday live series is officially underway every Sunday at 4 Eastern.

You can join the legendary meditation teacher Sharon Salsberg for a deep dive into the Buddha's cookbook for happiness, the eight-fold path. You can catch up on replays if you've already missed a few of the sessions. And you can join the next live meditation and Q&A only on the 10% with Dan Harris app. Go to dan harris.com to start your free trial.