Speed Training for Athletes How to Sprint Faster without Getting Hurt w/ Brian Kula | Mind Pump 2890

Key Takeaway

Stop treating sprinting like jogging. Your hamstrings don't pull because they're weak—they pull because your nervous system hasn't learned to operate at high speeds. The solution? Progressive exposure through drills that teach your foot to strike under your center of mass, not out in front. Start with bounce fire drills focusing on dorsiflexion and ankle mechanics before adding volume. Sprint training is neural training, and your brain needs thousands of ground contacts to coordinate properly.

Episode Overview

Elite speed coach Brian Kula breaks down the science of running mechanics, injury prevention, and athletic performance. He explains why most hamstring injuries stem from neural coordination issues rather than weakness, introduces his bounce fire training system, and reveals why exposure to speed—not just strength training—is critical for injury-proof sprinting.

Full Transcript

Transcript of Speed Training for Athletes How to Sprint Faster without Getting Hurt w/ Brian Kula | Mind Pump 2890 from Mind Pump Show. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

I haven't run fast in seven years. You're going to get hurt. I can deadlift 600. I got strong hamstring, hamstring, hamstring, but I never sprint. Okay. My 16-year-old daughter, she she's like, "Dad, why don't you race me or whatever?" And so, you know, I've got my I'm dad. So, I'm like, "Yeah, okay." And we raced and I beat her and then she's like, "No, I'm going to run even faster now." So, in my head, I'm like, "I'm going to show you how fast I can run." run." run." Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Pop. Pop. Pop. That's why you pulled your hamstring. It wasn't because you're weak. Your brain hasn't had to operate like that. And it doesn't surp doesn't surp doesn't surp you can kind of like you got enough up here to kind of get through maybe that first rep. That second rep your CNS is under fatigue and now you're asking it to go fast again and it goes haywire hamstring. hamstring. hamstring. Wow. Wow. Wow. I worked with Saquon Barkley and we were out on the track and he looked at me and said, "Coach, all this stuff you're telling me, I think I've been running wrong my whole life.

What we really want is blood flow." So you asked about ice and that's like a no no for me. I'm not even a big fan of cold plunges. It vazorestricts. I mean, it can shut down your nervous system at a high level for about 24 hours. It takes the nervous system some time to turn back on once you've kind of suppressed it like that in a cold environment. Who's higher risk? Cuz you still got some concentric and eccentric power. So, you might put yourself in a little higher risk category.

You know, that's why I try to explain to them. You'll be able to put force in the ground. That 45-year-old deconditioned athlete can't do that. It's kind of been a little bit of our secret sauce that that that has been kind of a staple throughout training for me for the last call it three decades. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pub. Today's episode, one of the best athletic trainers in the world, Brian Kula came on the podcast. He has trained uh professional athletes that you've definitely heard of.

He's trained high school athletes, college athletes. He gets on the podcast today and breaks it down. I love talking to this guy because he's one of the smartest athletic coaches out there. Now, this episode is brought to you by a sponsor, ButcherBox. So, what is ButcherBox? Well, they deliver grass-fed meat, wild caught fish, pork, chicken, and more to your door. If you want high quality protein, you want it at good prices. You want stuff that's treated right, so like crepe free pork, for example, uh then go to ButcherBox.

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New videos, new demos, blueprints are all revamped. The program with the 50% off discount, $28.50. That's it. $28.50 and you got yourself the best ab training program that's out there. Go to nobs6pack.com. That's no bsnumber sixpack.com. Use the code number six. So sixpack for the 50% off. Back to the show. Brian, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thanks for having me, guys. So, I need I want to ask you this. Uh, and you're the guy to ask, right? Um, running. I want to talk to you about running for the average person.

So many people, uh, will try to improve their fitness in one way, shape, or form, and they'll pick up running. Um, but it's got such a high rate of injury, and we talk about this on the show all the time that people don't appreciate or understand how much of a skill running is. Uh, and to add to that, if you look at us and the way we're built, we're actually built to run. We got these big knee joints and we stand up right and we got this muscular foot and this big Achilles tendon yet this got the highest injury rate among most forms of exercise.

So I'd like for you to kind of walk me through how you would take the average person and and kind of walk them through and and not just running like what do you address first and how do you get this person to be able to run so they can run to work out without hurting themselves. Sure. Sure. Well, it's interesting. I think, you know, I think one of the biggest things with running an injury is just like it's a volume problem. You know, similar to other aspects of of fitness, you know, you just jump in, you dive in, somebody's going into a 20 mph, you know, 25 20 mile week program and they're not quite ready for it, you know.

So, I think it's a volume tolerance issue that needs to be kind of micro dosed in to get them ready. So, that's kind of at a macro level. You know, you'd want to look at how much running you're doing to start. And we would do the same thing with an athlete, right? we wouldn't just throw them in and start hitting high volumes right away or high intensities. So, we'd start the intensities and the volume pretty low and then gradually, you know, periodize that up um to where they could tolerate it and handle it.

Uh as far as, you know, for for us when we're working with athletes and I think I mean everybody's an athlete, right? If you move, you're an athlete. So, I'm glad you said that. So, explain that. What do you mean by that? Well, I mean, I think we, you know, we categorize like, you know, if if mom goes to the gym, right, and she's doing athletic type movements, lifting weights, flexibility, mobility stuff, it's very similar in parallel to what some of the athletes are doing. I think the differences are just kind of the intensities that they're being done with and, you know, what what the intent what the intent is.

Um, so for them they just want to be fit and stuff. But I, you know, I'm I'm a big proponent of like, you know, a female a female that wants to, you know, look look good just for, you know, fitness purposes should lift heavy weights. And that would be similar to what we do with an athlete, you know. So it's not just like there's two completely different worlds of fitness and performance. I I feel like there's some, you know, a lot of crossover. So when we're working with an athlete, you know, we're going to dive into, you know, there's some mechanical things.

You know, really, it's a three-headed monster. It's neural, it's mechanical, and it's structural, right? So, the structural piece is where a lot of the, you know, the the people will get hurt because they start, they run too much, and their body just can't handle it. Their tendons, their ligaments, their joints aren't ready for all that. So, they have to have a level of tolerance. So, you know, we would start with some our bounce fire series is something that we love to do because it it it kind of exposes their their body to some of those, you know, um loads and training volumes, uh without actually going out and running.

um then they can build up to a certain amount of you know of of volume training that that they can tolerate. So structural is a piece. The mechanics is another piece. A lot of poor mechanics are going to cause issues and problems from you know whether they have knee vulgus or they pronate too much or they overreach or are you know really backsided. Those things can all cause problems up the kinetic chain. So we got to address things from a mechanical you know aspect as well.

And then the neural piece is like you know our brain's the operating system for the whole the whole deal. And that also has to be challenged in order for it to be, you know, coordinated to be able to run well. So again, just to be able to go out and jog probably takes a lower level of coordination than it does to sprint at a high level, but there's still some level of coordinating the body uh that has to happen neurally. Go back to the the fire.

Yes, that's what is bounce fire. Yeah. So, bounce fire is a system of progressive um running mechanics that that has kind of been developed and systemized over the last 25 years, let's call it. I kind of, you know, went to a coach and watched him, you know, 25 years ago, saw some stuff, put some things together. Actually reconnected with that guy's daughter 20 years later. Um, and we kind of, you know, formalized what we call the bounce fire matrix now. And really the bounce is kind of all in the foot.

So, it's all in the ankle joint of learning how to dorsif flex, get into a good loaded, you know, potentiated position with the foot that it strikes in the right place under your center of mass. Um, to maximize, you know, the force production. Um, and we start there at the ground and then work up. The fire series then starts to get into the hip and the knee. Uh, we learn how to whip from the hip and, you know, produce the max amount of force um, from the top down.

And it's just a series of drills. So the bounce series is one series where all we focus on is the ankle and it's uh you know it starts uh call it slow and you know low intensity and then works its way up you know to where you're potentiating up to like full end sprinting um and then the fire series starts bringing the hip and the knee and we do it unilateral. So we So what does it I'm sorry I got to stop you because I'm so curious like so uh what does that look like?

Am I um are you standing in place? Yeah. Am I standing in place assisted? Am I am I like It's a movement series. No, it's we you can run it 15 20 yards um back and forth. I mean, if we had space out in your gym here, we could just, you know, clear a path and move move back and forth. You don't need a ton of space. Um but, you know, what you're really getting is like over time, thousands, if not millions of ground contacts, which starts to develop that, you know, rigidness and and stiffness, the the rate of force development, the stretch shortening cycle in the in the Achilles tendon, um solius muscle and all that kind of stuff.

So, it's kind of been a little bit of our secret sauce that that has been kind of a staple throughout training for me for the last call it three decades. three decades. three decades. Um, and obviously it's it's evolved. Um, but now we kind of have a systemized we have about 30 signature drills that we run through linear, lateral, and change of direction. of direction. of direction. Yeah. And so you start that you you progress through that before you get into let's go out and run.

Correct. Correct. Correct. Wow. And so that makes a big difference in the person's huge huge. huge huge. huge huge. What are the what are the differences you see versus just someone going out and just running? Yeah. Well, I think it again it goes back and it addresses some of that neural, mechanical, and structural components because, you know, if I cut you loose and say, "S, I want you to go out and hit five miles for me and then report back." report back." report back." Well, I don't get to coach you.

You know, I don't get to see all the repetitive mistakes that you're making over time. Well, in a bounce fire series, they're right in front of me and 20 yards, you know, back and forth where I can coach them and give them cues to dial in their mechanics to make sure that they're getting enough, you know, the right kind of contacts in to develop the structure to be able to handle that higher volume later. And then the coordinative ability, you know, when you ask a kid to do like a single leg fire, which, you know, unilateral, if I took the three of you out in the gym right now, one of you at least would look like, you know, you have two left feet.

Um, but that's the that's the but that's the coordinative piece, right? And so now we're developing neural and not that it's just like this magic pill, but we really do feel like, you know, when you when you go I mean, running's not that complicated. There's an error phase and a ground phase. Um, that this set of drills really does address all three of those things. Very cool. Very cool. Very cool. What are the common what are the real common cues that you would give someone like the ones that you tend to notice that you have to repeat for a lot of people?

Uh, dorsal flexion, you know, having a loaded foot. um making sure that they stay in that position for a long time. A lot of lot of lot of people when we first start running they they they reach really bad. They get plantar flex. They kind of reach before they hit the ground which causes a ton of lower leg exposure. So shin splints like patella tendinitis like talis. Interesting. So that's the reaching. So that's from the reaching. I did not I thought shin splints were a lot of times for my clients that lacked ankle mobility and just the impact.

It's it's certainly multiffactorial for sure. There's a lot going on there. But I mean, if you think about it, right, like got three big strong guys here. If you know, if you put your foot out in front of you, we took a force measurement when you hit the ground, it'd be really high. But if we put that more under our center of mass as we moved over it, it'd be a lot lower. Super interesting. Super interesting. Super interesting. So rather than reaching forward with my leg, I wait till I get over it and then kind of hit the ground a little bit.

I I talk a lot to the kids especially about like the concept of pushing and pulling. I'll always say like, "Hey, if my car broke down, would we pull it to the gas station or would we push it?" And they're like, "We push it, coach." Why? Well, because it's easier. So pushing, right, getting that foot under the center of mass and pushing the mass down the down the field, the track, whatever is more efficient than pulling. But a lot of times that's just, you know, we want to go big stride.

So we reach and then we pull, which is, you know, not as mechanically advantageous. Is that does that result the reaching does that result in more hamstring pull and and and absolutely absolutely because you're putting the hamstring in a stretched position position position and then trying to explode and for and adding force. So that's where most hamstrings actually go is in that phase. that phase. that phase. Wow. So do you have like so flatfooted sort of uh what other like common dysfunctions do you see that like okay we got to address this like here's how we're going to do that?

Yeah I mean recovery is another really big one right like so once the foot has struck under the center of mass the next thing that needs to happen is a a heel recovery tighter to the hamstring versus like letting it come out the back side. So you'll see somebody that runs and their foot's kind of swinging out the back really bad. Um, again, all you can do there then is you get this hip extension. All you can really do is pull the leg through and land versus if you have a nice tight recovery, you can put that foot into a really nice potentiated position to punch the ground on the next stride.

stride. stride. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Now, that's not necessarily applicable to your jogger, right? Because those guys have a slightly different gate and pattern where we're going to maybe more heel strike and kind of roll over the top. Um, but with any kind of like sprinting or or fast running at all, we want to have the most mechanically mechanically mechanically advanced. Is it easier to teach a sprinter to jog than it is to teach a jogger to sprint? I would imagine. Oo. Uh, yeah. I would think so.

I would think so. I mean, I don't work with a lot of joggers, right? Like my my thing's speed, but I think that, you know, athletes and stuff easy. Can we slow down through the ringer here? I don't I hate jogging. No. Um, because again, like, you know, for me, everything is about like type 2B muscle fiber recruitment and, you know, slow jogging is the opposite of that. So, So, So, yeah. yeah. yeah. Um, but yeah, I mean, I think I'd much rather take a jogger and teach them how to sprint, you know, and fix some of those things than have to teach a sprinter how to jog.

I think that'd be kind of Let's go back to hamstring because that's such a common uh injury with sprinters. I'd say probably one of the most common, right, would be what are the some of the the things you do when you have an athlete that's like, man, I keep straining my hamstring. Is it all biomechanics or are we looking at strengthening in particular way? There's there there's both, right? There's both. And I I think where it starts number one there's there's a lot of new research out and stuff is it is neural right like the the inability for the body to relax after it contracts is kind of what is what the problem is.

So they're trying to stretch while it's exactly and they need to be able to relax in that and get into those positions. So and again some of the training like if you're into slow concentric training then you're not necessarily hitting the same energy system that you're hitting when you're sprinting. So, you know, it would make sense if you're doing slow RDL's that over time, you know, if you're sprinting fast, you you haven't really trained that system. That's right. And so, exposures to speed is probably the most critical thing you need to do to bulletproof hamstrings.

There isn't really an exercise in the weight room that you can do that that takes care of the hamstrings. the hamstrings. the hamstrings. So, old theory used to be that uh we were so anterly driven and so we had such quad development and it wasn't the percentage of strength in the hamstring. Is there truth to that? Absolutely. Absolutely. I think that's the that was like the ' 70s bodybuilding, you know, wave that took over and we kind of forgot about the posterior chain. posterior chain. posterior chain.

I think that's been rectified, but now it's almost gone the other way where we think we can just fix it in the weight room with RDL's, with Nordics, you know, these are the magic exercises, but really what the exposure to the speed is because it's neural. So there's a coordination factor of once you reach certain speeds, the body almost kind of shuts down because the nervous system can't respond appropriately. And that's when a muscle's going to pull. So, Brian, this happened to me. Uh, how long ago was I tore my hamstring?

Was it like 4 months ago? 5 months? No, no, it was longer than that. Got up and sprinted. It was almost a year ago. So, I I could deadlift 600. I got strong hamstrings. But I never sprint. Okay. And I was in Hawaii with my family and my 16-year-old daughter, she plays lacrosse and she's like, "Dad, why don't you race me or whatever?" And so, you know, I've got my, you know, dad, so I'm like, "Yeah, okay." okay." okay." And we race and I beat her and then she's like, "No, I'm going to run even faster now." So, in my head, I'm like, "I'm going to show you how fast I can run." Pop.

run." Pop. run." Pop. Yep. totally pull my hand. Someone like me, I've got strength, I've got muscle, but what I want to sprint. I want to be able to sprint without hurting myself. hurting myself. hurting myself. And I know what's happening now based off of what you're explaining. What would be my progression to be able to sprint, would it be like running at 50% for a while and getting good at that and then 60%, like what would I do? I mean, I if I'm if I'm programming for you and saying, "Let's get you there." And it's interesting because you guys know Mark Bell.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I'm actually we've actually done this with Mark, you know, he's lost a bunch of weight. He's trying to do some sprinting now. The first time I watched him run, I was like, "Oh, this is going to be tough." Um, but he's actually followed the actually but he's actually followed the protocols. It's taken a long time, but all we're doing is kind of exposing him through the bounce fire series on the Z tread, you know, um, kind of some exposures to those things.

That's why you pulled your hamstring. It wasn't because you're weak. It's cuz you're you haven't, you know, your brain hasn't had to operate like that. And it doesn't surprise me you did it on the second rep instead except the fir, you know, besides the first. Well, because the first you can kind of like you you got enough up here to kind of get through maybe that first rep. Now that system's a little fatigued and we all know like I'm a big rest and recovery guy. Like you know, we'll talk about that maybe a little bit later, but that second rep you're still your CNS is under fatigue.

Your body isn't, but your CNS is. And now you're asking it to go fast again and it goes haywire hamstring. Wow. Wow. I'm so glad we're talking about this because uh I got a lot of [ __ ] at the beginning of the football season, fantasy football, right? So, I uh my buddies, I'm the fitness guy, right? So, of all of us, I'm the only real fitness guy of the 10 guys. And one of the guys who's the league, the commissioner decides that the way we're going to do the draft this year is we're going to sprint a 40-yard dash.

Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. I refuse to do it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I said, "Put me in last play." And everybody was so pissed. You're the fitness guy. Yeah. And because I I do not sprint at all. I'm very aware of that. I lift heavy ass weights and I haven't trained like an athlete in a long time. I feel like that's such a recipe for for opponents like no business. Just no exposure. I mean, it would be not that dissimilar if if I was like, "Hey, I don't really ever bench press, but let's go throw 315 on and see how many times I can do it." It's really no different, right?

And so, I want to run really really fast and I have never I haven't run fast in seven years. You're going to get hurt. And wouldn't somebody like S or myself who never trains that way be at even higher risk because of how strong we are versus like let's say a total deconditioned person. So, who's Yeah. Who's higher risk? a a 45year-old who does no training, no nothing, go out for a sprint or the guy who's 600 lb deadlift, never sprint, they can rip. Yeah. Like cuz you still got some concentric and eccentric power.

So you might put yourself in a little higher risk category, you know. That's what I try to explain to them. You'll be able to put force in the ground, ground, ground, you know, and that 45year-old deconditioned athlete can't do that. That's exactly what I was trying to explain to them. I'm like, "Yeah, you guys, all you soft ass dudes that like never do anything like there's no risk for you. You don't even know how to get that output out. like my body knows how to push.

You know what I'm saying? And said I got a lot of muscle, but I don't I respect training like an athlete and sprinting that I can't do that. Yeah. I'm curious because like in the sport specific world like you'll see some philosophy out there like speed of sport or like the Marinoviches and like you know where they're actually trying to create exercises where they are able to like apply acceleration and that's the whole like point of it. How do you feel about that in terms of effectiveness versus just like, you know, doing that sort of graded approach of of just running and and getting exposure that way?

I I think some of those systems have some immense value, right? Like I'm I'm a little bit of a study of like the Eastern Block Soviet system, Ver Verkushky and some of those guys and I think what Marv Marino and Jay Schroeder and some of those guys did is incredible. Now, I'm not like a baby out with the bath water that's all we're going to do guy, you know? I'm like there are bits and pieces of it though that are really good. And so I think exposing athletes to some of the you know the the um overcoming isometrics, some altitude drops, you know, things like that where you're exposing the nervous system to really high levels of of output is a must.

You know, that's always kind of been a thread in what, you know, I've done with my, you know, athletes. Now, I don't do it every day kind of like they did. And I don't know what would happen if I did, if it's better or worse. I still think that an athlete needs good concentric, you know, has to be really strong, needs to run fast, needs it, needs nervous system exposures. So, it's a, you know, training athletes, that's why these are always great conversations cuz everyone thinks they got the system and like I think if we're, I guess, humble enough, we can sit back and go, they probably need a little bit of all of it, of it, of it, you know, and and putting that together is probably the best system.

How do you determine uh recovery for an athlete? Is it based off of their perception? Is it based off of what you see? Are you looking at heart rate variability? Like what are your what are your measures? your measures? your measures? I mean, I think after as long as I've done it, I kind of know what we're doing and how long that's going to take to recover at some level. I think I'm trying to max rest and trying to max I'm trying to max rest and recovery as much as I can, you know, which is kind of a paradigm flip from, you know, where we were, you know, when I went to high school and we just grinded and did as much as we could as often as we could.

With high level athletes that have really high output, more the more rest the better, right? more sleep, more days in between high intensity days. You know, Charlie Francis was kind of a guy that was a high low system, you know, guy. And I think he was spot on with, you know, you have a heavy day, you better come back with a little bit lighter day the next day. And again, that's all neural, you know, it's not like I mean, I think our muscles and they can go, you know, we can we can lift every day, things like that.

But when it comes to the nervous system, you got to be really careful. So, uh, some of that would be like data outputs, you know, whether it's force plates and we're looking at their counter movement jump and we're going to make decisions based on where we see them. Do they need extra rest? Do they need another day? Um, so that would be part of it would be the data collection. Would you do that? Like, okay, so we you're I'm an athlete. I'm training with you. We've been training for a while.

When I first come in, is there a series of like real basic tests like that that you that you do to like kind of assess, okay, what what are those? Yeah, force plates. I mean, you know, we have some performance tests. We're always going to run like fly 10, you know, like a 20 yard build, a 10 yard fly, so we kind of know where their max velocity is. That's a huge indicator of kind of where they're at. Yeah. Um, now we obviously have to get to a place of warm up potentiation, run that fly rep, and now we know where they're at, and that might tell us what we're doing next, you know.

So, you kind of, you kind of plan for the, you know, part of the session and then see where it's going to go from there. And then the force plates are another excellent tool to be able to, you know, get an assessment on a kid. You could do that almost daily. Um, I think sometimes if you go every day, it gets a little monotonous and the kids kind of stop, you know, putting into it. So, it'd be more of a maybe once a week, you're kind of just checking to see where they're at.

Oh, they're, you know, they had four volleyball games this weekend. They jumped like dog [ __ ] on Monday. So, we're going to take a day off, maybe even an extra day off, and then we'll hit them hard on Wednesday. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I I love this cuz this is very similar to how we teach trainers to assess this with clients before they go into strength training. We use grip strength. strength. strength. Yep. Grip strength. So, it's like, yeah. See how they get a baseline, they're squeeze at this all the time.

Oh, wow. They came in, they say they feel great, but then they're squeezing at 50% of what they normally do. Like, that's the day to to back it off. Very similar with like the force plate. plate. plate. Yeah. We we went down the the the last year we used a lot of Whoop data um and looked and studied that with our academy kids that we were working with and I mean mean mean how helpful was it or was it? It was it was valuable to see especially sleep indicators, right?

Just to kind of know how kids were sleeping and how they were recovering. You know, you start to you definitely started to see trends, you know, now what we dealt with is, you know, we could make decisions on our end of things, but the sport wouldn't necessarily make adjustments, you know. So, now you're kind of battling in between that and trying to make sure they stay healthy. So, So, So, you know, one of the things the Soviets did really well, uh, was they would per I mean, they periodized and it was like, I don't care how you feel.

This is D Lo and this is what we're doing. Whereas the US at that time was very much based off of let me just see what I can do and how I feel. How important is it for an athlete? athlete? athlete? I would imagine it's really important because the athletic mind especially at a high level uh I might not even perceive that I'm tired like a normal person cuz I just know how to push myself. myself. myself. How important is it like now we're following this routine.

I don't care what you say. It's it's huge. It's huge because to your point like all those highle guys that I get to work with they they don't they never think they're tired. Like they they want to go full till all the time. And so you really have to do a good job of like, you know, I usually go in like a four-week block where we kind of have like, you know, you know, light week, medium, heavy week, and then we come back down to a light week and we keep undulating that, you know, in the offseason just because if you just keep going, they'll just keep coming with you, which eventually ends to a, you know, an injury.

And with those guys, they don't need to be really fully ready until September. Like, if we're being honest, you know, and I'm training a guy in March, I mean, how ready does he need to be for OTAAS if he's a year seven guy? guy? guy? Yeah. Yeah. you know, we want them healthy enough and ready enough, but then we're going to come back in the summer and really give them kind of a final ramp up into their season, which is when it matters. When does it take like at what point in the like the training cycle with the athlete do you get that kind of full like I relating it to what we do, right?

So, like there's a lot of times where I'm telling a client like, you know, I want you to do this and do that and they're like skeptical as [ __ ] like I feel like I can do more. I feel like I'm eating too. all these things and then the the the aha moment is they hit a PR, body fat percentage goes down like and then it's like, okay, now they're bought in, they'll do. What does that look like in the athletic world? Like what is what is that?

Cuz I'm sure you get guys are like, I could do more and this is not enough. enough. enough. Are you kidding me? I've spent 30 years defending what I do to, you know, especially the higherend athlete. You know, it doesn't matter if it's a pro or just a really good high school kid and, you know, that that kid's got a dad in his ear or a mom in her ear and, you know, so you're always kind of having to justify what that what that does and looks like.

I think the, you know, success leaves clues. I think, you know, and I'm certain that you get a lot less questions than some of your junior trainers. You know, I I think I'm probably similar in that I don't get as many questions anymore, but when I was young, I felt like I had to justify everything and here here's what we're going to do and here's why we're going to do it. But then after, you know, few state titles, a few NFL players of the year, a few, you know, people stop asking.

asking. asking. Yeah, you don't get that question now. I'm sure you don't get that at all. But but if I get a new client, you know, like I mean, I worked with a couple new clients this year. some big names and they, you know, they were like, "It's different than what he's done before. So, I got to start with the re-education process all over again." Like, "Here's why we're doing it. Here's how it's going to go. Here's what you can expect." Yeah. expect." Yeah. expect." Yeah.

And you, you know, you kind of have to have that on the tip of your tongue with those guys cuz they're, you know, they're multi-million dollar athletes. And what does it look like then? So, when so getting that reby in is it like is it the first time they see like a number where their speed is a little bit and they're like, "Oh, okay. I'm listening to this dude now." Yeah. Uh with the younger kids it's really easy because you get a lot of data and you get a lot of data influx when they start training their numbers just keep spiking right and that's just that young adaptable you know athlete the older athletes we're not necessarily looking to like you know an NFL guy in his fifth year isn't going to put 2 miles an hour on in the offseason it's not going to happen really it's more of how do they feel right like oh man my body feels good I feel light I feel like I can jump again I feel stable I feel so it's a lot of conversation just around how their bodies are feeling Um, which is massive.

And, you know, that's again, we were talking a little bit about this earlier with the human approach to coaching. You got to have a lot of interaction. And it it can't all be done on a computer. It's not a spreadsheet thing, you know, and so we have to have to have to have a conversation, you know, what's your wellness feeling like? And then as they start to go, man, I now I now I see it. And then they'll have a rep, you know, where they run like maybe it's an acceleration, you know, rep and they're like, "Oh, that felt good." Yeah.

And it looks good and we videoed it, you know, then that's the validation. That makes sense because thinking from a like you said, a pro athlete who's been doing this forever. It's like I'm not probably hitting PR times, vertical time, like like I'm not breaking any records, but I do know how I've been playing in the league for six years. I know what my body feels like when I've played a game and done this and like, "Oh [ __ ] I feel good." Yeah, like that's probably a big and a lot of it's just the the mind game of right they want to feel good right they want to be healthy enough they want to feel good and if we can just kind of get them back to like you know baseline we're in pretty good shape because a lot of those guys I mean they're in car accidents for 17 games and it's just kind of putting Humpty Dumpty back together again you know to get ready for otaas then get them back in the summer and now kind of you know spit polish it up before training camp is there is there a balance that when you're taking a high level athlete where you're seeing something biomechanically that you're like, "Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I could work on that." However, they've been running that way for so long and they're so good at it that I'm afraid to correct that cuz it might actually slow them down because is there that balance that you got to play with?

And how do you deal with that with that high level with that that with that high level athlete? athlete? athlete? Yeah, I think you do. I mean, I think there's certain things you have to address, right? I used like I worked with Saquon Barkley a couple years ago and we were out on the track and he looked at me and said, "Coach, all this stuff you're telling me, I think I've been running wrong my whole life." cuz he really was kind of a planter flex kind of a reacher guy but of course he overcomes it because he squats the whole studio you know I mean the guy's a monster monster monster but those are that was something I felt like I needed to address you know now are there other things that maybe you just like let go by the wayside and also too like I'm not a physiootherapist right I'm not necessarily looking at you know I usually have a partner with me if there's like some kind of internal external rotational problem and we got to work on some muscles that are shut on or off you might need some like manual therapy you know in you know interaction with that and that's not my you know that's not my forte necessarily.

So you might have to work with somebody if it's really you know a small minute thing that needs to change. Do you have do you have like archetypes that you could kind of uh you know fall back on in terms of like okay this person looks like they're this uh for their running mechanics and then you can kind of sort of adjust their training in that direction or is it like pretty individual every person? Um I mean I think what I always say is like I feel like every athlete needs everything.

It's just how much dosage, you know, it's like if we all made chili, at some point we'd all have kind of the same ingredients in there, but you might put more meat, you might put more beans, you might put more sauce, you know, or whatever it is. So, I think with athletes, it's very similar of, you know, but you might have like a really twitchy athlete that might not need as much neural exposure, but might need to just get stronger. So, we're going to tailor them with a little bit more weight room, you know, a little more concentric strength work.

Uh, or there's an athlete that's just strong as heck and, you know, maybe doesn't react to the ground well. So, we're going to do a lot more RFD work and, you know, jumping and plyometric work. Yeah, it all gets individual. individual. individual. Give me the best strength training exercises that you've seen for speed. Uh, and are they different for young athletes versus older athletes? Uh, no, I don't think so. I mean, I think some of the top concentric lifts I like are trap bar deadlift. Um, safe, easy, you know, touches seven different muscle groups, really kind of mimics some of the positions you're pushing into the ground.

I like that a lot. I think box squat is awesome. um you know where you get to break concentric eentric chain and uh concentrating on both of those both heavy but also in velocity. So making sure that you're lifting a little bit lighter weight but but fast. Um and then like overcoming ISOs, you know, like a split squat lunge. Um you know, getting in there for 10 seconds and and really fire in there. That's a fast twitch movement. Even though you're not actually moving, the brain has to operate at such a high level to hold you in place.

And this is when you're like pressing into something that is not moving and you're just driving it. How how often do you use isometrics? I the data on isometrics is wild. It's crazy to me how little they're used they're used they're used in traditional strength training. I mean evangelist forever. evangelist forever. evangelist forever. The strength gains that you see in the data actually there's faster strength gains in in the first few weeks as isome anything else. anything else. anything else. So you say to use them every single day.

Yeah. Every day and and they're a part they're always a part of someone's routine and Yep. Exactly. What are the benefits? There's there's yielding, there's there's overcoming, there's there's, you know, um extensive isometrics, you know, long long duration, 1 minute, 3 minutes kind of stuff. Uh but, you know, if like kind of to potentiate the session, we'll get in and do like a 10-second isometric, you know, overcoming. Um Um Um and that in the beginning, in the beginning. Okay. So, you set the routine up with that once they're warm up because there's really low residual, right?

You don't get really sore from isometric. There's not a lot of fatigue on the back end. Uh but you can really get the system going. And then we'll usually pair that with like a plyometric, some kind of altitude drop or a, you know, box jump or something like that. Then we'll start to get into more of the concentric, you know, heavy trap bar deadlift, pair that with a vertical jump, something like that. You know what's wild about isometrics is that was like a bodybuilder staple for a long time and then you just stopped doing them.

And my theory is they just look boring. I think that's a thing. They're not very sexy. Yeah. I say they are a little boring. I mean, but also you don't do an Instagram post with it. It's like here's me pushing into something that's for 10 seconds. Just keep watching. Yeah. Yeah, they're hard effective and and safe. You know, it's just like it's stressed enough. stressed enough. stressed enough. There's there's such great results for tendons and ligaments as well. Like, and that's another reason we'd use them.

That's why I say they're going to be in there every day cuz even if we're not doing it for like a strength exposure, we're going to hit it for some kind of like tendon tissue, you know, health. Cuz if you get into like just a split split iso lunge, um your your patella knee pain will like go away. Yeah. What are some of the biggest changes you've seen in athletic training over the last few decades? Cuz you've been doing this for a while. I have. What are the big like groundbreaking like changes or switches that you know now you see?

I I think I got asked that the other day. I think what I've seen is like full circle. I really feel like you know my dad was a strength coach back in the day and he was big with you know watching Boyd Epley and Husker Power and kind of that you know whole scene and a lot of it was influenced by the Soviets. Well, that's kind of what I learned. And then, you know, here we are 30 years later and I feel like it's all coming back to some of that very same stuff.

And we we went like functional training and, you know, all these different I feel like it follow the same for our space. space. space. Totally. Totally. Totally. Yeah. I feel like the stuff we talk about now is like the most basic [ __ ] that we knew 30 years ago. I think I think the thing nowadays is like there's so much access to information that it's just like flooded and now it's just cutting through the noise and and figuring out what really works, you And but if you look back and go, you know, hey, here's what I did with, you know, Christian, you know, a couple years ago, that seemed to work really well.

Kid had a, you know, phenomenal season. And then I look back at, you know, what they were doing in the 70s with the Soviets. I'm like, there's a lot of things that are common in there, you know. So, I mean, you got to be strong, you got to be fast, you got to, you know, rest and recover. What was wrong with the functional quote unquote stuff that was real popular like in the late 90s, early 2000s, you know, when you're standing on like balance boards and physio?

I just think it lacked a little bit of like um that exposure to concentric strength, you know, like I I still think that, you know, again, it's the lowest hanging fruit. If a kid gets strong, an athlete gets stronger, they're going to move better, they're going to run faster. Um, you know, unfortunately that it's not the only thing. It can't stop there. But I still think that's got to be a part of the program. And so, I think functional training just kind of took that out of there.

You know, oh, we're not going to back squat. We're not going to, you know, pick up dead heavy deadlift cuz it's dangerous and everything. Well, you know, there there's some things that bulletproof you by picking up heavy deadlift, you know, strong low back, you know, glutes, like all the things that are good about sport that you got to have that in there. What what kind of young athletes are typically brought to you? I'm imagining they're very motivated and the parents are super into it. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Is it harder to train the kid or is it harder to work with the parents when you're dealing with that? Um, you know, we haven't really had bad experience with parents. I mean, I I think sometimes, you know, you've got so much authority, I'm assuming they'd be like, you go take care. care. care. Yeah. And even my staff, you know, like I've been out of the building now for call it 18 months and they're thriving. And I think our coaches have a great understanding of what relationship looks like.

And we just haven't had a lot of overbearing. You know, parents get a bad rap these days, I feel like, right? Oh, this dad, I have this mom or this psycho dad or whatever. And I mean, they they're obviously they've they've invested in their kid. They want them to come get great training. I think, you know, how the trainer interacts with the kid makes a huge difference. And that, you know, the kids show up and work hard. And I think because they're they're paying for a service, so they they want to be there.

It's not like they drop them off and have to be there, you know, which I think is usually where problems start. problems start. problems start. So I don't think we've had really problems with either to be honest with you. you. you. Is there any type of training uh that you that can be done to help prevent head injury? Uh cuz that's such a that's such a such a such a a known thing now. I mean, I remember reading data on soccer players even CTE. And is there anything that people can do trainingwise to help prevent that from is it like strengthen I know boxers for a long time strengthen their neck.

Is there any truth to that? Yeah. No, I definitely think so. I mean, there's some things you just can't help, right? Like if you're a NFL guy and you know, you get hit, you know, back of the head, hit the turf, that it's going to happen. But I guess if your neck's a little stronger and you can lighten the impact because you're you're strong in your, you know, your neck and your upper chest, that's probably the way to go. I don't spend a ton of time on that, you know, necessarily with even with my football players.

Um, we'll do some neck exercises, but uh, yeah, I think sometimes a little bit unavoidable. My daughter was a college soccer player and and she had I don't know how many concussions from just even heading the ball, let alone, you know, headto-head with another, you know, another athlete. Yeah. So, a lot of the focus is speed. Let's make you run fast, which has got greatest carryover for Well, it it's the I mean, I I really think it can make it can be like a, you know, cover a multitude of sins.

When you're fast, you can almost keep yourself out of trouble, right? It's like it's like when you, you know, for collisions, right? You're accelerating through it. through it. through it. Yeah. And and or or don't have as many collisions cuz you're really fast. Something. Something. Something. Well, you you brought up Seaquan and Christian. You've trained so many great athletes. athletes. athletes. Uh do you do you get impressed still and and and take me through some like moments of like, you know, like I can only imagine first time working with Christian or Saquon and they did something you're like, "Holy shit." Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Like I want to hear stories like that of like moments in your career like athletes which athletes have impressed you like that. Well you guys know I I mean worked with Christian when he was in high school and I mean from the time he was a freshman sophomore in high school he was doing things where it was you know like did that just happen like that kid's going to play on Sundays you know as a 16-year-old. 16-year-old. 16-year-old. Did you feel that like the moment you met him?

Like the first time you seen him move or do something? I mean, I watched him play eighth grade football and an eighth grade basketball game. And I I mean, I watched him dunk a basketball in eighth grade at like 5 10 white. white. white. Yeah, that's not that's not common. He was different, you know, definitely different. And then and then paired with that was his mentality of, you know, I want to be the best. And he did everything that he possibly could do to be the best.

And now we have the best. So, uh, yeah, he was different. I mean, I think I I worked with Saquon a little bit in the weight room a couple days and it was just like I've really not been around somebody that was just that like naturally strong. naturally strong. naturally strong. So, that was, you know, he's kind of freaky. And, uh, this winter I got AJ Brown a little bit. Um, and that guy for as big as he is when he first, you know, started doing some speed stuff and the way he moved at 227 pounds or whatever weighs that much was was was wow.

I mean, it was impressive. So, yeah, all those guys, I mean, Solomon Thomas, you guys remember Solomon Thomas? He was number three draft pick here with the 49ers back when Christian got drafted and um I mean I've seen that guy you know we do some gymnastica kind of stuff like on our Tuesday workouts and he he was with us training once and he's down on all fours kind of like moving around the room and I mean it was like the most fluid thing I've ever seen.

He's 285 lbs just like moves like a cat. So yeah, all those guys have a level of impressiveness to them that you know they just move different. Now, when you like work with these guys, like do you really uh I mean, you're probably super busy, but do you still get the time to like sit and watch the game and watch like some of your work unfold? And like do you get you have an appreciation for that? that? that? Yeah. Yeah, for sure. You see Saquon do a 360 over.

Yeah. Yeah. No, I taught him that, right? right? right? No, I only got to work with him for about a week, but uh I mean it was Yeah, it's I mean people ask me like, "Who's your favorite football team?" And I'm like, "Well, I'm kind of I'm a fan of the player, right? cuz when you spend a little bit of time with them, you know, I've spent, you know, a decade with Christian or more and some of those guys would come in for a week or two at a time.

You're breaking bread with them. You're getting to know them and yeah, I mean, I can't wait to watch them play on Sundays. Even if they only get a few snaps or, you know, they're playing the whole game, I'm locked in. Yeah. Brian, we we we we probably have some some parents of female athletes and the rate of ACL tears or female athletes is significantly higher than with male athletes. Is there anything you you can do or that people can do or you do with your female athletes in particular to help prevent Sure.

Sure. Sure. that type of an injury? Yeah, you can. I mean, I think that's almost similar to the concussion deal of like when there's exposure, there's just going to be incident. And, you know, females have there's been a lot of research and study out there of just their their anatomy, right? Hips are a little wider than their knee base and so they, you know, tend to have that that angle that's not great for that. Um, menstrual cycle has a ton to do with ACL injuries. Oh, really?

Oh, huge. Is it when they're what? uh when they're when they're on their cycle, it tends to be about I I'm I may misquote this so you can check into it for me, but I think it's over like 80% of when they tear their ACL are usually interesting. And now that probably connected to I was going to say hormones, sleep, and recovery. I would think those three factors play uh in into that, right? Which is, you know, it's it's it's nice to know, but like how do you deal with it?

That that's like, oh, we got a playoff game and I'm, you know, I'm on my period. Well, you're you're going to play anyway probably. So, you know, now there are some exercises and stuff though to prevent some knee vulgus and make sure they have really good, you know, external hip rotation and stuff to keep things strong and in alignment, which would be helpful. Um, but a lot of the stuff you see is even non-cont, which nec, you know, isn't necessarily like a strength issue or whatever.

They're just, you know, hormones are Yeah. Exactly. So, lot of exposures, you know, to those, you know, the the deceleration, the eccentric loading. Let's get their body good at doing the things that tend to cause injury. Exactly. Because if you just have all if you're all gas, no brakes in those kind of sports, you're in trouble, right? Because you you might be able to produce enough force, but then how do you stop? Okay, Okay, Okay, I'm going to create a scenario for you. Just see if this if there's anything you could do.

So, you got an athlete who's training and they're like, you you need some better recovery, but we got a game in in a week. Like, what are the tools that you use to really help with recovery? Is it just mostly sleep? Is it are you using ice? Like, what are the some of the tools? No, I think first and foremost is sleep and nutrition, right? like I think you can't get too far away from that. Um, you know, there's there's different products out there of, you know, compression boots and saunas and things like that that I think would be beneficial.

Um, I'm working with a company right now called Air Therapeutics. Um, and they have a a CO2 uh delivery system of paste and a suit. Um, where you can actually uh it's called the bore effect. Um, it basically helps deliver oxygen from the the off the hemoglobin into tissue and muscle. And so, you know, everything that you're always after with, you know, the sleep, with the, you know, all the different modalities is to try to utilize oxygen better to repair and heal, you know, tissue. And so, this actually gives us a really good um option.

Um, and so the paste can be used as like a recovery. It can be used as a as a Is it rubbed on the area? Yeah. Right on. Right on the area. Are we are we simulating similar benefits like the hyperbaric chamber would give you? Is that kind of what along those lines or it's it's not like the hyperbaric because what a hyperbaric is doing is trying to drive more oxygen into your system. Yeah. system. Yeah. system. Yeah. And it also has it's pressurized. So you're actually got some vaso constriction going on.

So you have less blood flow and you're trying to push more oxygen in. Okay. Okay. Okay. Well, more oxygen isn't any beneficial if it can't get delivered properly. Okay. Okay. Okay. So, uh what the paste does with the CO2 is it helps actually vasoddilate. So you get more blood flow and then you get uh you know um additional uh that bore effect where it comes off of the hemoglobin and it gets into the tissue more effectively localized. Yeah. So it's helping the nervous system, it's helping connective tissue like all those things.

So would you say then So would you say then something like this is better for one of your athletes than a hyper chamber? Yes. Yes. Yes. Wow. Wow. Wow. Yeah. I mean I think it's I I think it's like revolutionary honestly. Oh yeah, that's a big deal. Because I just I've never seen anything like it. I've actually used it myself and I got a bunch of little ailments, you know, getting older that that I know have a significant difference that I notice. Um, notice. Um, notice.

Um, wild wild wild product. I got I got some for you guys. I totally want to try. Yeah, I've never heard of. So, I'm trying to think of like what the benefits would be for the average person with something like this. And I guess it would be my wife. Yeah. My wife, you know, had a little super spanatus kind of deal going on in her shoulder. She put the paste on twice a day for two two days. Zero pain. Like I mean, you know, I I know some of the better, you know, physical therapists and chiropractors in town and we can go get treatment and stuff, but all she did was put the paste on and let the, you know, let the body heal naturally, which is what it needs to do, is just get that oxygen into the tissue and it went away.

I use it. I get a little bit of like, you know, tendonitis in the elbow from lifting weights and stuff and I'll just hit it a couple times and it's not like something I have to put on every day. Um, but with some of the athletes, I will encourage them like, hey, it's a max velocity day. Let's put some paste on the hamstrings. Let's get a little extra oxygen flow. So, as a pre-workout or is there anything during the workout? Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Oh, wow. How long has this company been around?

Is this uh They haven't been around long. Um I got kind of connected through them through ETSs, um which is, you know, my new performance company I'm working with and they uh they introduced me to their COO and he flew down to Nashville and brought the air suit. So, they actually have a suit that you can wear where you suck all the oxygen out of it with a vacuum and then fill it up with CO2 and you just sit in it for a half hour. Um and it has the same, you know, same effect only systemically.

So you actually get a little parasympathetic response. You know, I do it at night before I go to bed. Oh, you did do you notice a better sleep? sleep? sleep? 100%. 100%. 100%. Oh my god. So, how does a company like this uh get you to partner with them? Are they like, "All right, let me meet you. Here's the data. Here's the science. Then you got to go test it type of deal." Yeah, kind of. I mean, it was a really weird like uh how we got connected.

And it's funny because some of the NHL guys that I've worked with were actually using the technology. I didn't even know about it. And so when I met the doctor that came up with the technology, um he's like, "Yeah, you know, these guys up at in Winnipeg are using it and and it happened to be a guy that I've worked with." Um so there was just some some relationships and they came to me and I think they had the science. I think they got, you know, uh the operations of the business going and they wanted somebody who could kind of maybe connect them into some of the the marketplace a little bit, especially with the high-end athlete.

So like we got AJ Brown into one, uh Solomon Thomas, you know, some of these guys are using it. They're loving it. I mean, they're, you know, so, so right now, and again, I'm not the science guy. You know, bring the doctor out here, he'll tell you all about it, but I know enough about it to understand what it's doing. And, um, I've even noticed it on myself. So, So, So, I'd love to be connected to that's super interesting. You know, since we're talking about recovering, I didn't hear you say, and uh, Red Light, you guys use Red Light.

Red Light. Red Light. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, um, another product that I've, you know, partnered with is DNA Vibe. Uh, they they the little jazz band. And so, it's a, you know, it's not it's not red light. It's like a uh light therapy though on wearable. Um and I think that stuff I mean again anything that kind of work with your own body's DNA the oxygen much better than like even leg boots they're great you know they make me feel a little bit better but they are compressing right and so they're limiting blood flow at some level and what we really want is blood flow.

So you asked about ice and and ice is that's like a no no for me. I'm not even a big fan of cold plunges. Uh because well tell me yeah explain explain why no cold plunge. cold plunge. cold plunge. Well it it it vazor restricts. Yep. It shuts down your nervous system. I mean, it can shut down your nervous system at a high level for about 24 hours. So, if you got some kid like, you know, high school, it was kind of popular at my place before I knew any better where the kids would go in on a Friday and go cold plunge to feel better for the meat the next day and then maybe they wouldn't run as well, you know, cuz it takes the nervous system some time to turn back on once you've kind of suppressed it like that in a cold environment.

Interesting. That's super interesting considering uh I would have thought in the athletic world it's even more popular because we we've obviously it's we've watched this in you know interesting interesting interesting you know cold punching has been around forever forever forever but the popularity of it right exploded now everybody's doing it then you saw the big push back on the in the bodybuilding world cuz it's like you want that that signal after you lift weights to build muscle. So doing it right after you lift weights is not an ideal time for the the guy who wants to build a bunch of muscle.

So that started to fall in favor. But it was still being told or touted as Yeah. But for athletic training, if you have a high level athlete who's got to recover this and that, but you're saying you don't even building thing, it's the same thing, right? Like you you want that that synthesis, you know, that happens post-workout to to be effective and take in nutrition and stuff. You don't want to like suppress that and shut it down necessarily. And I'm not, again, I'm not a science guy to understand all the, you know, positive things that might happen with that.

I just wouldn't necessarily want an athlete doing that too close to a game time. Now, if it makes somebody feel good early in the week, like before a game or whatever, no problem. You know, I don't think it's like bad for you. Um, but, you know, learning more about how oxygen delivery and the stuff with the with ER, the company, I'm just like I'm all in on that. Tell us a little bit about ETSs. This is something you're doing that's new. So, explain what's going on.

Yeah. So, ETSs is a company based out of Minneapolis. Um, Ryan Inglebert, uh, who trained Adam Thelen and his wife Heidi, uh, started the company and, uh, they've been going since 2010. But uh uh they reached out when I moved to Nashville um and we kind of started conversations and they ended up buying Cula Sports Performance from me. Um and so now I'm a vested partner with them moving forward helping them grow. They they're now 80 plus locations growing fast. They have a tremendous tremendous group of people just faith-based uh group and I went to their summit this this winter and was just blown away.

Um kind of reinforced, you know, was really happy that we did partner with them. Um, so I'm helping them with some thought leadership and education stuff and, you know, growth growth strategies. Um, but yeah, they're they're exploding. I mean, they'll be the largest performance company in the world. Wow. Wow. Wow. What's their target? Is their target audience mostly like young athletes? It is. Yeah. I mean, they we can serve, you know, the pros and the college kids and stuff, but I mean, primarily you're going in and, you know, that youth population, 12 to 12 to 18 year olds.

And, um, yeah, they're they're they're crushing it. crushing it. crushing it. Standalone facilities or gyms? Standalone. Standalone. Standalone. Standalone. Standalone. They're all corporately owned. Yeah. So, it's not a franchise model. Uh they have a really unique uh way of onboarding their coaches. They bring them up to to Minneapolis for three months and they onboard them with all the programming and training and you know, business acumen and everything they need and then they, you know, about a month out they they kind of start promoting and marketing in the area and then they they launch and open up.

So, now you're teaching them that your system, all the coaches and and go through that course. They they got great systems in place already. Um I'm just trying to enhance a little bit of the organization with the the movement and the speed development which is a little bit more my forte and uh it's going really well so far. So a lot of education you know we have 80 directors and I think eight senior directors and directors and directors and so it's a it's a really fun space to be in and I just have really fallen in love with with them and they've been great to me.

So yeah. Was it tough selling uh cool performance? performance? performance? Uh you know not really. Um I mean they they they uh he's like they made a difficult bro. Well, I mean, you got your name on it, your legacy. You know, they left the Denver building branded, uh, Kula Sports Performance, which was a nice, you know, a nice, uh, gesture of them. I think it was pretty smart business-wise as well. But, uh, you know, they they've been nothing but good to me. I don't I don't feel like I've just been absorbed and, you know, they they've really kind of put me on a pedestal a little bit, and I've been appreciative of that.

So, uh, no, I really haven't. I just, you know, for me, I I I mean, I didn't go into business to like, you know, put my name on a t-shirt and, you know, I'm I'm I'm a bad self-promoter, I feel like. And so for me, this is like my opportunity to help another 50,000 athletes overnight. That's like the impact and the reach that I want to have. So for me, it was just a it was a blessing. What are some of the biggest mistakes that common mistakes that young athletes are making or coaches in high school are making with their athletes?

I think doing too much. You know, it's always it, huh? Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, especially nowadays, and I say it till I'm blew in the face, but like the access to information isn't always a good thing. So they're just doing too much. They're trying to do too much. They don't understand the impact of what all that has. And you know, and that that even applies to the sport itself, right? We're playing, you know, a million AAU basketball games. We're playing, you know, we're just we're just doing too much.

And, you know, I don't think it's that, you know, we're not trying to be a I'm not trying to say we should be soft and, you know, whatever, but like it's it's a it's a how much output can do you have? You know, how many how many swings you got in there? You know, we we haven't had this conversation in a really long time. In fact, uh we we talked with Chad Wesley Smith long long time ago about this and I'd love for your opinion and on this.

You know, there was this idea back in the days that um you know, I've I've got an 8-year-old kid and man, he could swing a baseball bat and so we put him in baseball year round every like all all that. And that was kind of the old way of doing it. In fact, and what most of the research and science has supported is that we having him in different sports would serve him better. So, how do you feel about So, how do you feel about that?

Like what's your philosophy? You when you work with a young kid, do you encourage the parents like Okay, tell me tell me a little. Yeah, I mean I what I tell parents now is like at least until they get to high school, I'd like to see him be a multiport athlete. multiport athlete. multiport athlete. So, I do think nowadays it's a lot harder and I was even at a private school in at Valor in Denver there that, you know, we tried to preach multiport even through high school.

It was just really difficult. You know, in theory it sounds good. Yeah. Yeah, but when it comes to the practical side of like, hey man, I'm trying to make the baseball team and those kids are taking cuts and throwing balls all year round and now I'm coming out of basketball trying to make that team. It's tough. And so, you know, I get that. And so what I what I kind of shifted my mentality to was like maybe even through your freshman year, play all the sports like get get a good exposure, stay away from overuse injuries.

You know, some of those different movement patterns are going to pay off for you down the road, but then at some point you're probably going to have to put all your eggs in a basket. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, you're going to fall behind. You know, there aren't many sports where I mean, I'd say football is still one of those ones where you might be able to jump in late and still have some success cuz it's a little bit in some levels, you know, some a lower skill game.

You know, you could jump in and play whatever. whatever. whatever. Well, I don't I don't mean that disrespectfully there. I mean, trust me, if you're a quarterback, if you're a wide receiver, if you're a running back, I mean, there's different positions that are super skill. But, you know, I'm talking like take baseball, you know, where that level of of skill, you know, just and it takes, you know, 10,000 hours, I'm sure, to, you know, perfect a swing and a pitch and all those things. And I don't know that you can miss all of that through high school and still be eligible to be a D1 or, you know, potentially a professional athlete.

And I'm I'm not delusional. I don't think, you know, most people need to understand you're not going to play pro pro anything, you know. So, be be the best you can be as a JV or a, you know, a varsity. That's a really cool that's a really cool perspective because that's no one else is uh came from that angle. Uh and I think you bring up such great points. It's like, okay, in theory, if I had the perfect kid that I could train from, you know, elementary all the way up, he'd be in four sports a year all the way to almost college.

But the reality is that resonates so much because it's literally the trajectory of already like with my youngest especially because he uh both my kids I got them in gymnastics early because of some of the advice of like these world class coaches. like this is where you want to start and then you're going to move him into multiport and make sure they get exposure and it's like like like so he was always like and he's athletic and he has skill but it's not at the degree where his knowledge isn't there like so he's going to this sport he's doing lacrosse and immediately he's like somewhat talented but doesn't know the rules and it's like way far behind everybody else and then it it just like phased him out and you know and so he's he's now kind of reducing it down to like two sports but you know it is a challenge at the end the day.

Well, and something you can't put your finger on until maybe way later and sometimes it's too late is like what's their passion like? Yeah. You know, the kid might show all kinds of promise, but he just might not like it that much. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And if you don't freaking love it, you ain't playing in in the NFL or in the NBA, you know what I mean? So, there's got to be an obsession to it that, you know, some kids may I just think it takes a lot long time to see that.

And you can usually tell. I mean, I've been fortunate even when I was at Valor, I mean, a lot of my pro aletes came out of that high school and so I saw them as like freshman and sophomores. I could have probably tagged the ones that and told you that those were going to be the pro aleteshu, you know, and that was in a school that had a high population. I came from other schools before that. We we never had a pro alete come through, you know what I mean?

Um, but you could tell the difference of a Janine Becky, Christian McAffrey, Mary Best Sant, you know, I could go down the list of Windam Clerk who won the US Open. I mean, that kid used to cut class to go train in the middle of the day up in the weight room. So, you could just tell there was something different about those those kids that ended up going and having success. having success. having success. Is gymnastics still one of the best base things to do for your kid?

And why? And why? And why? I think body awareness um a little bit of, you know, uh um body weight, you know, strength strengthening. And it's, you know, we get we get people that come into our facilities, kids six, I want to train. And I'm like, uh how about gymnastics for a couple years? come back to us when you're nine, right? You know, they'll they'll assimilate better, right? Like go get them some really quality movement patterns and a little bit of strength exposure and then bring them back to us and we'll start doing some of the speed stuff cuz then otherwise what we're doing is kind of mimicking gymnastics, mimicking gymnastics, mimicking gymnastics, right?

Remedial stuff. Just go get it just go get it coached up by a gymnastics coach. I I love gymnastics. I think it's great. What's one of the most difficult uh sports that you have to train an athlete for? Are some just harder than others? Uh, Uh, Uh, I mean, I think sports where there's like multi- multiacapacity or like multi-energy system is probably the harder sports to train. Like soccer is one of them, you know, where you kind of have this I mean I I I personally think it's more of a speed based sport, but then you're covering seven or eight miles a game, so there's kind of an endurance component to it as well.

So it's not so straightforward and that kind of Yeah. So you got to kind of cover a lot of different, you know, things. I think a sport like tennis, you know, where it's again endurance, there's speed, there's hand eye coordination, there's strategy, like all those things going into it, those are also challenging. also challenging. also challenging. Do you do you help these young athletes with nutrition or is you just focus straightly straight on on the exercise? No, I mean for for me, like when I'm working with an NFL guy, typically you're not having to, you know, talk about nutrition too much.

They usually have someone cooking for them or they're they're pretty, you know, coached up on that already. TK Metaf, but my wife does some of our nutrition consulting stuff. So, so she'll jump in and help out young athletes if they need help. And and again, for her, she tries to keep it really high level and just like kind of coach them on how to like here's just your basic macros, you know, how much protein should you be getting, how many carbs, and stay away from this stuff.

And I mean, kids sometimes eat so poorly that you don't need to do much to move the needle. I mean, it's crazy. Just have one more protein shake. There's not a whole bag of like, you know, cheese bits and we're going to be okay. okay. okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you have to b I mean, I brought up DK Metaf because I thought I would think that you'd have kids that are young like, but he eats Skittles all day long and look at him. My answer is you're not DK Metaf.

That's my answer, right? It's like uh who is uh who's the running back that used to eat the Skittles on the sidelines? Oh, that's Mar Lynch Lynch. You know, and it's like yeah, but you're not Marshon Lynch, so you don't get to do that. do that. do that. when you're a walking freak show, then you can do whatever you want to do. I mean, talk about that. How much uh cuz I'm sure this is also a thing too where parents or even the kid, you know, they have this expectation if I put in the work and like what a role genetics play like you just oh I had a guy I was with the Tennessee Titans last week and a guy came up to John Shaw who's the speed coach there and he he you know I was standing in the wing a little bit and he said, "Hey coach, so who who would you say is the best the best speed coach in in you know to go see?

who is it? And I and I tapped him on the shoulder. I said, "It's your mom and dad." Genetics. Genetics. Genetics. You know, it's like it is genetics play a huge part in it, right? And there's, you know, there's few of us that do a pretty good job of molding that and, you know, have some good systems in place, but yeah, genetics play a massive role in a lot of this. Yeah. Yeah. Do you uh do you follow other coaches outside like like one of my buddies Paul Fabitz does all the NBA players.

Do you follow any other guys like that? Like who are some of your favorite peers? favorite peers? favorite peers? I do. I mean, I I I feel like I'm a little bit of a lifelong learner. I'm in a little bit of a slow season of my life right now. I haven't made some changes in business and stuff like that. So, but it but I mean on the daily I'm I'm looking at what other people are doing and studying it and you know I'm I'm back reading Super Training again uh which is a book that I recommend to every coach.

It's it's a tough read man. it is really really like you know intricate and so but um I mean guys guys in my kind of neck of the woods right guys like Les Spelman um uh Tony Holler and uh Ryan Paul up in there's a new guy that I've kind of started following a little bit big J Schroeder guy uh up in Seattle uh Cal Deetsz um you know there's just a lot of guys out there that have a lot to offer you know and I'm not going to go listen to them and then just completely change what I'm doing but I can always get 1% % better.

better. better. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so yeah, I I'm a I'm always poking in on what people are doing. What's one of the recent more recent things you've learned uh where you're like, "Oh, that's interesting. I think I'll try that." Yeah. I think actually it's funny cuz we were down at outside the box in Florida with the Z Tread guys and they brought in it's outside the box. So they bring in these guys that are, you know, a little bit outside thinkers. David Wet was there.

If you guys know David speaking outside the box character, but you know what? He's got some really good content. You know, he's an interesting cat. And so Ryan was a guy that showed up. He had never actually spoke at a clinic before, but he's trained like hundreds of NFL guys and he's a J Schroeder guy. And so he brought a lot of that kind of neural training stuff and it it reinforced some of the things that I had done in the past and gave me some even new fresh ideas on, you know, how to do it.

And I spent an hour with him on the phone after the conference. We talked. He kind of walked me through his system and I'm actually going to take a trip up there hopefully in the fall to see him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because he's really good at what he does. And does. And does. And so yeah, I mean I you know he he's that's kind of some of the newer stuff that I'm looking at right now is just you know how to how to manipulate and you know the neural side of the neuromchanical structural.

neuromchanical structural. neuromchanical structural. Have you have you dove into uh David Wet stuff? I mean I've gone through a lot of his stuff like and his big thing is like the coiling like that coiling. Yeah. Head overfoot coiling. Um you know he's got his finger stuff that he does and yeah you know for some of it with David like the conceptually it makes sense. I think that practically for me, having, you know, when I'm working with athletes, I kind of wonder sometimes, well, how do I make sometimes, well, how do I make that happen?

Sure. Now, I have used I just got one of his uh Prop Pulse vests. Yeah. I don't know if you've seen those, but it's a weight vest. Yeah. And inside the weight, it's got a spring at the bottom. So, the weight actually comes down on the spring as you're loading, but then as you unload that that spring, you almost get a little momentum off the ground. ground. ground. Interesting. Interesting. Interesting. It's actually really cool. So, you can do everything from like plyometrics to sprinting. And I actually wore it to walk in the other day.

Three and a half miles of listening to myself kakco kung kung you know as I'm walking drove my wife. wife. wife. Oh that is interesting. I mean it almost would give you similar like band assisted to like plyometric type movements. movements. movements. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. That's kind of you know he invented the Bosu ball. Yep. Yep. Yep. Oh he did. He did. And so this is this propulse vest is kind of his latest. Those foot platforms that are like angled. Oh, and he does those he has those other things that his little pulses.

pulses. pulses. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The concept of the vest is similar to the to the hand weights. Yeah. Oh, that's cool. That's interesting. That's interesting. That's interesting. Supplements. Do you recommend supplements to some of your athletes? Yeah. I mean, I, you know, I try to steer clear of it a little bit with the younger athletes, right? I mean, even even up and through high school, I just kind of feel like, you know, I think one thing my dad had a big impact on me on was like, don't start supplement until you've maybe maxed out yourself naturally.

And even those supplements can just be an enhancement. They're not like you're not taking steroids or something you ridiculous like that. You're But you know, even like creatine, he always had me hold off on that. It was just coming out back then. But he's like, "Get let's max you out and then once you've maxed out, then we'll start supplementation." So supplementation." So supplementation." So I think creatine, as much research has been done on it, if an athlete nowadays isn't taking it, they're foolish. Um I think it's got so many great positive benefits.

You know, fish oils, um you know, just just some of the basics, minerals and stuff. I I don't necessarily promote like a brand or you know big into supplements. I just don't like people to have to I see your element box over here. My wife deals that stuff like a like a crack dealer and we love that for you know the the salt and potassium stuff. So that's awesome. that's awesome. that's awesome. Have you with the pro aletes? I would think that you're getting a lot of people probably asking you about peptides and stuff like that.

Is that a common thing that you got to like again Yeah. I don't get hit with it a lot. really. really. really. I don't just because like especially with the NFL guys, there's there's so many that are on the band substance list that it's kind of a nonoption. Um it used to be a couple years ago, right? It was just a few years ago they took BPC and put it on the list cuz I mean most of our athletes were taking that, you know, by the as much as they get their hands on.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um but now that's banned and I think just about just about all of them are on the water list now. Oh, they are all on the water. I didn't know that. know that. know that. What's interesting is I don't know how they would test for them but still. Right. Exactly. Well, and that's the thing even with BPC it's got like a 2hour shelf life or something. So, I don't know how you'd get caught, but plus your body makes it naturally. So, how's it How do you know it's there?

Right. Oh, interesting. Okay. I didn't know that. I didn't know it was on the water. Did you know it's on water? Oh, yeah. All of them are. Oh, you did? Oh, I didn't know that. I didn't know it was on water. There's a single one that's on. Very, very cool. Well, that's great. So, so all these years uh working with athletes, uh do you like it as much as you did in the beginning? More less? I do, man. I really do. like I you know I maybe I don't miss being on the floor 8 to 10 hours a day and like you know grinding uh but I still look forward to you know working with an athlete putting a program together solving the problem right because there's especially I think now the difference is it used to just be write a workout for all these kids and it's pretty much going to move you know it's going to work for all of them and now it's a much different you know problem solving formula of you know hey this athletes got this knee issue coming out of the season so how are we going to mitigate that and get him back and then we'll start our speed work and you know there's a lot or planning that goes in.

I had my NHL guy reach out to me last week like, "Hey, I I I got a, you know, torn or a strained MCL. Like, I need to get stronger here and here's what they recommend. What do you have for me?" So, now I get to like, you know, go in the lab and kind of figure out what we're going to do with him. So, I still do love it. I mean, I right now is a little bit of a weird time for me because I'm not actively training.

I don't have an active gym that I'm necessarily involved with outside of the ETSs, you know, stuff that I'm doing. And so, it's kind of giving me time to, you know, put some ideas in place. Um, I'm working on an ebook that we'll put out this summer on some training stuff and so some digital, you know, products and assets that I've never really had time to do. So, yeah, I still love it. For someone who's a personal trainer listening right now and they want to get into your field, what what what direction should they go?

Um, it's funny. I had this phone call a month ago. Um, and I I would say one of two things. Like, if you if you have a real passion for it, you got to dive all the way in. I I don't think that personal trainers that come out of that world that dabble in sports performance are ever going to have a lot of success. They might have enough knowledge to be dangerous, but you got to go all in. And so my advice would be if you want to do that, go all in.

And by all in it might mean an unpaid internship. It might mean taking a course with, you know, us or Altus or, you know, whoever to to really dive all the way deep because it's just they're two different worlds. Totally. They really are. There there's a huge difference between trying to help your average, you know, mom do some athletic things versus training an athlete. Exactly. And and I think a a personal trainer who has some sort of, you know, sports performance background can help the average mom be a little more athletic like that.

But you ain't taking no athlete to another level. Like that's a whole another game. I mean, I know I know sports performance coaches that have been doing it for 10, 15 years and never really got their break to work with some bigname or pro alete, right? It just takes a lot of time to be really good at what you're doing and then have somebody take a chance on you before you actually reach that. And so just to be like, I'm going to dabble like I'm going to keep being a personal trainer.

And there's some damn good personal trainers, don't get me wrong. wrong. wrong. Um I'm going to hire one of you guys to help me get uh big muslin. But uh yeah, I think I think you got to be, you know, to your point, you got to be all in. in. in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I could see that. And it's it's also one of the harder um fields or or segments of our of our space to build a career. Yep. you're going to train like being a personal trainer, building your career is tough.

Now you're going to go into like specialized athletes. It's very difficult. So, difficult. So, difficult. So, and that's that's what I loved. That's was one of the draws with ETSs is honestly it's created opportunity for the young aspiring sports performance coach that is going to make 40 grand for the rest of their life at some college, you know, unless you get a break, you know, here and there, but that's pretty small. And it gives them an opportunity. I mean, they, you know, they start with a pretty good little salary and they can make upwards of six figures uh if they hustle.

And that just isn't that's an anomaly in our industry. So it's they have a great, you know, setup to help out some of those younger coaches that want to do it as a as a career. Very cool. Yeah. Well, Brian, this has been great, man. Awesome. Yeah, it's good to have you back on, my friend. It's great to have somebody like really good coach uh you know, on our show talking to athletes and trainers. So, I appreciate you coming on. coming on. coming on. You guys are always a blast, man.

I can't wait to take take my uh paste. I want want want That's right. Try that for sure. So, it improves blood flow. What areas can you rub that on? We'll talk about next podcast. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate you, bro. Thank you. All right. I know you like that episode. If you did, check this one out. Stop doing three sets of 12 to build muscle and do this instead. You guys want to guess? guess? guess? Stop doing the three sets of 12 and do this instead.

Uh, with that intro, my guess is you're going to tell people to change the rep range up to Yeah. 5x5 or low rep range. Do you guys remember when you're going? you're going? you're going? Yeah.