Roxanne Saffaie Gets Us Emotional Reminiscing The Past 10 Years | Mind Pump 2762

Key Takeaway

In business and relationships, staying authentic to yourself is worth more than chasing growth metrics. When Mind Pump hired an algorithm expert to boost YouTube views, their content performed better numerically - but felt hollow. Within months, they fired him and returned to their authentic approach. The lesson: Build your success on who you truly are, not on what the algorithm rewards. Real growth comes from integrity, not optimization.

Episode Overview

Roxanne Safi interviews the Mind Pump hosts about their 10+ year podcasting journey, exploring themes of authenticity, partnership, and staying true to core values despite external pressures. The conversation reveals how their selfless approach to partnership, combined with shared values and unwavering integrity, has sustained their successful business through major life challenges.

Full Transcript

Transcript of Roxanne Saffaie Gets Us Emotional Reminiscing The Past 10 Years | Mind Pump 2762 from Mind Pump Show. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump. Mind Pump with your hosts Sal Dphano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. Andrews. Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode, this is unique. We've never done this before. We had somebody in the studio, good friend of our Roxanne Safi. We've known her for a long time. She has a great podcast called The Roxan Show. She came in to interview us for her podcast.

Now, the show turned out to be amazing. She asked us some of the best questions anyone's ever asked us in a podcast, and it was great because we got to reminisce on the years we've been together. It's now been 10 years. We liked it so much, we got quite emotional, in fact, in this episode that we thought we would drop it on our channel. So, if you've been listening to Mind Pump for a long time, you want to hear how we got started and what makes us tick uh and and with somebody that knows how to ask those questions and ask them the right way.

That's what today's episode's all about. So, we'd like to thank Roxanne for this uh episode and thank her for letting us post it on our channel. And again, if you're a fan of Mind Pump, we know you're going to like this episode. Now, you can find Roxanne on her podcast, The Roxan Show. You can also find her on Instagram, rock seedlook. So that's r ox y l o k. Now this episode is brought to you by a sponsor, Seeds. This is literally the world's best probiotic.

So if you know all the benefits of probiotics, Seed has the world's leading researchers, it's the best probiotic you'll ever find. If you want the gut health benefits, the skin health benefits, the mental health benefits, the recovery and muscle building effects that probiotics can provide that the data now shows, go with seed. seed.com/mindpump. That's the link. And if you use the code 20 mindpump, you'll get 20% off. We also have a sale going on with a new program this month. Maps 15 symmetry. So this is Maps Symmetry, but the 15minute version.

So 15 minutes a day. Work on balancing the body, developing an aesthetic physique. It's 50% off because it's a brand new program. You got to get it here though. Go to 15 symmetry.com. Use the code December50 for the discount. All right, real quick. If you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over at mypumpstore.com. I'm talking right now. Hit pause. Head on over to mypumpstore.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show.

I was a celebrity makeup artist, right? That's how I met my [ __ ] ultimate teammate who's in this room right here, Carrie. Yeah. Right. Um, Right. Um, Right. Um, and so the highest expression in martial arts is what? Right. And to me, oh, I got it. Black belt beauty. But no, it's not even the beauty thing. Oh, that's right. Yeah, I keep messing up. up. up. No. This is why I changed it. Nobody [ __ ] got it right. You love the name. But no, to me to live the highest expression, the most beautiful life is to live from the highest expression of yourself.

Right. Right. Right. Right. So that's where I was overly poetic probably, which I can totally be at times because I'm a writer, you know, and so, and so, and so, but yeah, four years ago um is when I rebranded and that was a big deal cuz I was already So December is year eight that I've been podcasting, which is [ __ ] heavy. Makes us feel it's really, it's really, it's really, you know, that puts you in in a special category. category. category. Yeah, I know. You know, most not a lot survive.

No. survive. No. survive. No. Oh, the stats on that are crazy. Yeah. First of all, the average only make it to 12 episodes then even that%. Yeah. Yeah. It's only 12 episodes. How's the show been growing? How's it been doing? been doing? been doing? It's great. I mean, it's top 1%, but that's still I don't want to put it down. I don't want to say it doesn't mean anything to me, but it's still the beautiful part for me is that I feel like I'm endlessly beginning, right?

Like it's always there's always another level. There's always more to grow into. Um, Um, Um, however, however, however, it's fun though. Oh. Oh, it's it's beyond fun. It's dharma. dharma. dharma. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like I'm living my [ __ ] dharma. I I came here to do this amongst other things, but this is me expressing myself at the highest level, right? This is connection creation and you know on the on the flight here um I publish an essay every week on Substack and I decided to write about this experience with you guys as this week's essay.

Oh Oh Oh yeah, it's it's really it actually got me really emotional. Yeah. Well, for a couple reasons. Should we put this on air? Is it out? I want Is it not recording? Is it up? No. No. No. Oh, no. No. We got to hit. Let's get this going cuz we're going to lose all this amazing content. I've been recording. Yeah, but we need the video. We got to make sure the video's going. Where you at, D? at, D? at, D? We're going to go. You're good to go.

Sounds like Let's make sure we catch her all when you're talking about us. I want to make sure that you tell his brain go there. I don't know what she's going to say. Yeah. Wait, wait, wait, wait. I want to record before you talk about how awesome I am. You know what got me into podcasting? I saw you morons. I can totally do that. These three [ __ ] can do it. I can definitely do this. Three can do it. Oh my god. I'm going to crush. It's all right.

We started a lot. We got a lot of people in the podcasting that exactly. exactly. exactly. These guys barely have two brain cells in together. in together. in together. You guys are [ __ ] hilarious. You got the time. All right. We're good. All right. So, okay. you were saying you you so on my on my flight here to come sit in this very special chair in this moment with you guys. I decided that my essay for the week, I publish an essay every week on Substack, that I would be kind of sharing a journal entry.

And this journal entry would be about you guys and about this experience right now. This vision that I've held for now, so it's November right now, December will be 8 years since I started podcasting, right? And I've had the vision of sitting here with all of you since I started my show. In fact, before the show because so my brother Arya Safi was a guest on your show in 2017. Wow. It was 2017. Not [ __ ] wild. That's a long time. So much hair back then. I almost had hair back then actually.

Almost Almost Almost 2017. I might have had hair, too. You had muscle. I have hair in 2017. God, did I have hair in 2017? Yeah, you sure did. I did. I think I did. Wow. Wow. [ __ ] long time ago. Yeah. Well, yeah, it was it's crazy, right? It doesn't seem like that long ago, but when you think about it, pretty Yeah. 2025 right now. And um you know, and I went back and I listened to that episode actually in preparation for this moment right now, which was so special for so many reasons, but he introduced me to you guys like, "Hey, I think you'd really like their show." And I was super into podcasting back then, right?

I was listening to Tim Ferrris, Tom Billu, and then and then tuned into you guys and I was [ __ ] hooked. And I was hooked for several reasons, some of which we will totally tear open and talk about today. Authenticity was number one. It's felt. It's easy for me to feel it because that is just how I function, how I've always functioned, right? So, it's it's Emerson's quote. Those who live truly shall see truly. I really I really believe that. Right. Yeah. love Emerson. And so I got so into you guys and at that time too um I started lifting heavy weights weights weights finally cuz my brother had been telling me for so long and I was I grew up in the ' 80s.

I was like cardio now I don't want to get [ __ ] bulky. That's why hearing about your your daughter and lifting is super special cuz I didn't grow up at that time. You know, it's it's different now. And you guys, I believe have a big part of you you you have created so much impact in that way on just how as a woman I'll speak to it, how we feel about our bodies being strong and how to get strong. get strong. get strong. So, So, So, thank you.

thank you. thank you. Yeah. No, thank you. And so, as I'm on the flight and I'm writing this essay, I'm like, [ __ ] man. This is so special because number one, I had this vision and it's now happening, right? Number two, um you guys have been sort of like spiritual podcast brothers to me because S you I mean it's incredible and I want everyone to [ __ ] hear this or watch this moment. But I remember before I launched the show, I did a couple solos. I call them solos.

And I sent them to you because you you said, "Let me hear them so I can I mean, you may not even remember this, but this is one of those moments where I'm one of those people. I never forget where I come from ever." Right. And you so graciously were like, "Let me listen." And you told me, you're like, "You're a natural. You're going to do great." You even gave me [ __ ] great advice that I didn't it didn't register like how to get the show in the top 100, whatever.

Anyways, but as I've been journeying now again close to 8 years, um, which is such a it's a big deal. So being here with you guys is a big deal cuz it reflects back to me that I'm [ __ ] here. Like holy [ __ ] But also what's been so special and I really I really trust that you're going to feel this from my heart cuz it's the only place I [ __ ] speak from. But I have been cheerleading you guys on in spirit this whole way through. and to see you like to sit in your studio now to know and witness all of your incredible growth is so tremendous and it's so deserved and and I'll close on this before we when I started thinking about the idea of success whenever the [ __ ] that was maybe high school or I don't even know it had to have been a little bit later when I started deeply thinking about what is success to you right not societ ieties, ideas, cuz I've never subscribed to any of that, right?

Maverick for sure. But like what does it really mean to you, Roxan? And for me, it's I just want to be who the [ __ ] I am. I want to evolve as authentically cuz you know, we I was just telling Carrie at 47 now, I've lived I've calculated this. I've lived like 10 lives. So, I want to honor my authentic evolution. I want to be free to express myself. I want to be free, right? And to be free, authenticity is a huge part of it. And when I look at all three of you sitting here, I you guys have [ __ ] done it.

And done doesn't mean you're done. There's still so much more to go. But you've truly done the thing. You have been you the whole way [ __ ] through. And you've built from ground zero to a massive brand and business, which are really two different things. Yes, they go together, but they're two different things. You've done it with heart. You've done it with [ __ ] soul. And you've done it with the deepest level of integrity. And I'm just honoring you. No, thank you. What a compliment. Huge compliment. Huge compliment.

Huge compliment. Thank you. Yeah. It's real. Yeah. Speechless. Doesn't happen. I know. Yeah. I get all emotional. I get all emotional. I feel that though, you know. I really do. I think that uh we did do it uh our own way. Um and a lot of times that path is is far more narrow and harder. It is. It is. It is. You know, it's it takes longer, but it's so much more rewarding, you know, to to sit here to be able to do this 11 years later and not feel like we've drifted from ourselves at all.

We just talked about this on a recent episode that how crazy it is um and how insidious you can become the algorithm. And I think even people even people with good hearts and good intention like they get at they start putting themselves out there and they they start to get rewarded or liked or shared because they do a thing and then it's like oh let me do a little more of that thing and then and it's just like this this real slow drift from who you are and then all of a sudden you get rewarded for it and you get praised and you get money and you get success and adoration and all this and it's like and you wake up one day and you're like oh [ __ ] like like like who am I?

Who am I? And you're and you got all this attention, you got all this fame, you got money, all the things that you thought were you were chasing and you're so unhappy because you're not really yourself. I can't tell you how many really famous popular people we get to meet and talk to. And when the mics are off, you can feel that energy from you want you want to know. You want I mean, if you want a little behind the scenes on some of that. So, all right.

Real quick, if you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over at mypumpstore.com. I'm talking right now. Hit pause. Head on over to mypumpstore.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. We're also dropping a new program, Maps 15 Symmetry. So, this is Map Symmetry, but it's the 15minute version. So, 15 minutes a day. Work on balance and symmetry. Develop an aesthetic strong physique. And because it's a new program, it's half off.

Uh, go check it out at 15 symmetry.com. Use the code December50 for the discount. Here comes the show. I was just having this conversation with these guys. I was just driving. I was praying and I was just thinking uh about how blessed uh I've been and how I used to think how awesome I was and realizing that a lot of it is um some people would say luck. I think it was just blessing uh to have these partners uh that would check me and that we would check.

we have so much respect for each other that we can do that and it not be like this personal defensive it might sting uh but we'll but we we do that for each other and just that behind the scenes like recent relatively recently uh we had hired and I like sharing the story because uh it's it's not easy we hired somebody who was understood the YouTube algorithm YouTube algorithm YouTube algorithm and so his job for us when we hired him was I'm going to help your podcast do a a lot better on YouTube.

Now, we do okay on you, you do pretty well on YouTube, but there's channels out there that are just, just, just, you know, 3 million subscribers and, you know, the channel itself is generating all this revenue, and it's like, you know, if we have this great show, this, you know, great impact, like, are we missing something? Is can we can we do something better and reach more people? So, this guy gets on and he's trying to help us with the algorithm. And so what he would do is he would send titles that he through his, you know, analyzing would do well and they would get more clicks and more views.

And Roxan, it started to it it felt not good. good. good. We we could feel it. It didn't feel good. good. good. It wasn't the same. Uh now we would take his title and do it in our way kind of and kind of shoehorn so it was authentic cuz cuz cuz we couldn't just outright be something else. But it definitely wasn't. We definitely took the the the compass and turned it a little bit and we could feel it. We were getting more views and we were getting more attention, but it wasn't feeling great.

And I remember there was a a point, I think it was at our it was our Christmas party. Justin and I are looking at each other and I'm like, "Man, doing the podcast is it's been feeling sucky." He's like, "Yeah, dude." And I'm like, you know, we're trying to follow the trend when what we've done from day one is either create the trend or miss big. Like that's all that's what we've done. We're trying. Yeah. trying. Yeah. trying. Yeah. And so we fired the guy. Yeah.

Wow. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Wow. And we got rid of him and went back to we're going to go with what we feel is helping people and it's a billion times more u more rewarding. But we even I mean it's hard because you run a business you employ people and it's really easy to say well it's going to reach more people and if we want to reach people then there's a better way to reach people and we you know maybe we can do it in this way or that way but it was taking us away from uh from what you're talking about that authenticity which you know by the way where that comes from it it's training people coaching people that's where that's where we got that didn't last very long though.

No no No no No no how long did he last 6 months? Um it was less than that right? What you say? Six months. Four to six months. Yeah, it it wasn't long, bro. It wasn't long. Yeah, it wasn't long. But it didn't feel good. I mean, that's why we felt it really quick. It was just like we were open to, okay, this just doesn't feel right, but let's see. And it was just like, no, it ain't happening. ain't happening. ain't happening. No. And that takes a lot of guts.

It t it it does to to be able to and maybe it maybe to to the three of you it doesn't feel feel feel that it you guts is involved but it's really like you said it's so easy and and Adam said like you're getting more clicks you're getting more views you want this stuff right you want to grow and you can you can rationalize with that part of it like more views more people being helped you can even like position it that way but when you have a strong sense of self integrity I I mean that's it's you're in contention with your own, you know, in that situation, you're in contention with your integrity.

And I think that and integrity is so special and so important to me. It's such an a really important top core value attribute. And so I think it does take guts when you are in a business and you're you're in it to grow, to scale, and you find yourself in a situation. You know how many times we've said this in a meeting? Like uh one of us have said this, we I think each of us at one point said something similar. It's like I'll I'll burn this down and start over so long as I can work with these guys.

Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Uh and so, okay, if it doesn't work and the whole thing gets destroyed, we'll start over. But I I don't I don't know if you could do this in the right way without that attitude because otherwise uh you be you become tyrannized by this thing that you're you're chasing. um that becomes your you you start to to twist and shape all your uh your your either your morals or your goals towards this thing that you're aiming for. Uh which is terrible thing to serve.

So yeah, it's it's almost in kind of going back to that story like it's it's a blessing that it didn't work. Yeah. And we kind of talked about that is, you know, because we do want to grow and we do want to reach more people and and we want all those things, you know, for the business. Um, but if it's not who we are and it's not what we've been doing and and you know, who cares? who cares? who cares? Who cares? It's not worth it.

It's just not it didn't feel it didn't resonate with us at all. And so we we'd rather get the success from, you know, knowing that we're helping people and we're doing things the way that we would do it. Well, because I think you define success in that way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. To do it the other way. Sure. Metric-wise, maybe moneywise, you know, attention-wise, attention-wise, attention-wise, somebody could say that's success. But to to to you three, and I'm with you, that that's not successful. If you have to step out of your integrity and who you truly are, then it's then what is that really?

My I have a question. So I I've distilled because first of all I'm a street [ __ ] philosopher and all three of you are too. So we are going to go deep in philosophy here. So I I like to think about ideas, play with them when I wake up at [ __ ] 3:30, 4 in the morning, sitting there in the dark with my red light and I was, you know, recently thinking about relationships and what does it really take and all kinds of relationships. So, friendships, business, partnerships, um what does it really take to keep the vitality of a relationship intact?

And vitality when I use that word very strategically meaning so it's kind of like health span, not just longevity, right? But like how do you keep these healthy years going as long as they can, right? So, in a relationship relationship relationship and this was very bold of me because obviously relationships are super complex, right? But I have distilled it down to two factors that I feel play the largest role in the vitality of a relationship. Factor number one is the degree at which your consciousness aligns and number two is your values.

So my question so I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. And then there's a question that when you guys started when you you you came together to start mind pump do you feel that back then your consciousness and your values were already very much in alignment and has you know the past 11 years of of you working together has it just become more in alignment has what's your take on that's an interesting thing I would put something above those two things actually. actually. actually. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Selflessness. Selflessness. Selflessness. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. At least that's I was going to say agape, which is sacrificial love. sacrificial love. sacrificial love. Yeah. Selflessness. I think that uh true selflessness. I mean, I think that's what served my marriage. I think that's what served this relationship. Um it it's easy to say it's harder to truly practice. practice. practice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. To uh to not count what the other person is or isn't doing and focus but focus on what can I do for them.

Mhm. I think if you enter into any relationship with that attitude, um what comes from that is this incredible, beautiful, growing relationship. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um and sometimes that requires you to go through a period of time when maybe you don't feel like you're receiving a lot on the other end and you're giving so much of yourself. But if you truly believe and that's the the path to a deep meaningful relationship, then it'll get there eventually. I'll give you a personal like a clear one example of what Adam's saying.

I I we started the podcast and I uh very shortly after got divorced. So this is 15-year marriage, two kids. Devastating. Devastating. And I brought my best here, which was 10%. 10%. 10%. That was the most I could offer my partners when I showed up. And I really, really cared about this business. I cared about my partners, but I was just crushed. And these guys held me up for probably years, probably years, probably years, probably probably two or three years when I was giving and knowing I was giving 10% and that was the most I could give give give and they held me up that whole time.

And so uh in a in a traditional um example of a relationship, uh they would have been very justified to look at me and go, "You're what are you doing, dude? You're giving us 10%. You're not you're equal partners. You know, you got to show it more." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh but they held me up. Yeah. They held me up and I did what I could do and there's things that I could bring bring bring but it was 10% of sale. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh and that's all they got and they held me up.

me up. me up. So um now the loyalty that it'll create uh which I already they already had my loyalty but after that it's like it just solidified it. solidified it. solidified it. Um so that's I think what Adam's talking about with that. So I sort of categorize both in the consciousness zone though because when we are higher like and I'm not it's not better than everyone every soul has their journey right and you are where you are you are you are but if our souls consciousness are in more in alignment then I I do believe that the the the the more that one's consciousness is expanded or elevated we are also able to be less self-center and to have that empathy and that grace and that patience because I think I really believe that comes with being a higher conscious individual.

conscious individual. conscious individual. Right. So I kind of group put it into Yeah. Interesting though because I think like uh what's so what what came to mind for me right away why I wouldn't put it above the selflessness is that I mean when we first started this uh Sal was atheist. that couldn't be farther from my consciousness and my belief. I have a very deep spiritual connection and relationship with God and have my whole life. And so, uh, he was very sciencebased and approached the way he looked materialist.

materialist. materialist. Yeah. Very different than me. Um, but yet we were able to still very much so align and and connect on on other values that I I do agree that that would be in a top five thing. Mike, I think you have to have cuz nonetheless, his his value for people, his selflessness, his heart, those things were very much so uh aligned. And I I I mean, I had the pleasure of working with Justin long before all of this. And so I already knew where him and I were connected.

Um you know, Doug was Doug was a a gift that came with S that I was unaware of until we get it. But it's interesting like when I look back I mean we're coming up on we're celebrating our big uh 10 year like it's officially will be 11 but we're doing our 10 year party and there's like it's it'll be a then we did a lot of like video and special stuff that we're going to do. So, we've been reflecting a lot Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. on this.

So, it's interesting we're going this direction cuz I've thought a lot about it. Like, it's crazy to think that and and we meet people like we're we're doing this stuff with our trust and family stuff with this company and and the guy was telling me the other day when I'm talking to him, he's like, "You guys are crazy." He goes, "I've been doing this for like 40some years, helped hundreds of CL businesses. I have never seen a four-way partnership that you guys like and I don't know if you know this or like everything we have is a partnership.

We have real estate, we have investments, we have stock, we have it's a quarter down the middle on everything. And it's impossible for everybody in this room to equally handle all that stuff. It doesn't matter. Yeah, it's just there is a a brotherhood and a bond that bond that bond that anything that manifest from this is all of ours and one guy can take a a hiatus and only give 10% one guy can take off for good and we've already agreed that quarter that quarter of anything and everything of this is yours and nothing breaks that.

And you know it's interesting to think like I don't know what what it was that know I don't know what what it was that that created that early on. Well, I I just to contribute to to that, um I think, you know, when we're talking about values, when we're talking about um you know, from from the spiritual end of it, I think the more leaned more towards the values of it and saw the potential of where it could go uh and knowing their values and and really kind of picking up on their integrity and um you know, I'm I'm a very observant person and so it you know, this can come across like I don't you know talk all the time or you know maybe I'm not as outspoken but at the same time it's like I am taking mental notes and I'm you know watching uh action and really I'm that's what I'm most concerned with.

you know, people can talk and say whatever they want to me and it doesn't register unless I see it play out. And I I saw that in them. And so, you know, for me, it was like it was an obvious thing that that you can build something great with that. And I've seen this in teams that I've been a part of for sports. And there's like that that core sense that everybody involved has this like like desire to be great and to grow and and to and maintain these values that are really strong.

And so it was a very similar uh type of a aspect and vibe that I got like initially meeting them. So them. So them. So Justin has a a a crazy uh gift of discernment that he picks he'll he sniffs out sniffs out sniffs out Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. in somebody who lacks integrity from 10 miles away. He comes in cuz he can get his handshake. He comes in so skeptical. That's why. That's why. That's why. But he just he could just, you know, mine. Mine's pretty good, but his is like like he's like, man, he's got that that counter which is really good.

I think, you know, I you know, I'm trying to think about it cuz some of it was I'll say a blessing cuz some of it was like this is hindsight. So now looking back like, oh my god, like we didn't have we didn't sign paperwork on this partnership for years. Yep. you know that we ran this how long did we run this business before we officially wrote I don't think we have any official paperwork so paperwork so paperwork so we had an operating agreement early on a real generic one real generic one I think I think it might come from knowing uh that you don't deserve this so so because we're we're human like we're all super flawed okay so each of us us us if we wanted to make a list of the things that that you know we probably could guess what annoys our partners about us.

We could probably write a list all of us like I know that they got they hate it when I'm this fail here and we could all do that easily. Uh and so it's like I don't deserve this. So when you know Doug or Justin or Adam does something, it's very easy for me to be like whatever. like, "Okay, that's cool." Like, you know, this is just It's so funny though because we're all so very different, right? You know, cuz uh I mean, I I resonate a lot with what Justin says cuz we played team sports growing up and I and I studied a lot of like military like Navy Seals and stuff like that.

like that brotherhood that they have, that bond and selflessness of like it's the you're the other guy above you at at all cost and that creates this unbelievable force that that's how I entered this this business. Like that's the only way for it to to just destroy anything in its path and be successful with and that like every great sport team, every great Navy Seal team, they have that brotherhood. And so I think I know Justin relates to that because of playing sports. It's interesting to me that I feel Doug and Sal they didn't really he played solo sport but that yet that that like resonates with everybody I feel like of this like it's about the there's times and you've cuz you've listened long enough so you've probably heard us express where I mean Sal and I are like going at each other.

I mean, if somebody could see what it looks like, people would be like, "Oh, [ __ ] The whole company's going under." People would think it's like the it I'm sure like Dylan could talk about the first time that he ever heard it. Like people probably went like, "Oh [ __ ] I'm not going to have a job tomorrow." job tomorrow." job tomorrow." Yeah. Or Yeah. Justin kind of like that that the meme of uh what's his face? He goes into the right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm Homer. I mean I mean there's countless countless times of us but it's always for the good of the team.

It's never about ego. It's never about I'm more and I I we both want it. Like I want you to care that much that you're going to get in my face and tell me I'm wrong and prove to me I'm wrong and I'm going to battle for what I think is right because not because I care for my ego but because I think it's the right path for the business. And so we all embrace that. You know what's you know what's cool about that though. That's cool.

So you ever you ever hang around with like an old couple like like like a married couple that have been married for this is my parents. I'll use my parents as example. They're both now uh in their 60s. They they've been married for you know 40 years. And I remember as a kid they get in these blowout fights, right? Like like like marriage is hard especially when you have four kids, immigrant family, the whole deal. Now I'll hear them bicker about things that used to cause blowouts but it's different.

It's almost comical. They don't take it nearly as personal. It's not a big deal because they've kind of grown grown grown together, accepted certain things. And so like like I'm just thinking back like those things you you and I even Adam you and I probably but had the most it happens less and less. You don't which is wild because we've been together all of us have been together for so long that I think it's like an old couple. Like we're getting a point now where there'll be like a few remarks and a little this.

little this. little this. Yeah. It's just like a like a backhanded slide or whatever. Well, I think what so what I hear and feel feel is you guys really trust each other. other. other. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And and trust and respect really go hand in hand. In fact, I'll say love does too, right? And so, you know, even in I in friction moments, you you can you can have at it because you trust each other. you trust that it's okay. It's safe to disagree.

It's safe because at the end of the day, you guys are on the same [ __ ] team, right? right? right? And te team is really important and something I really wanted to talk about with the three of you. So, I have this whole again deep thinker created a podcast episode about it. Carrie and I talk about it all the time, but I really believe that there's a difference between teammates and friends. And it can sound immediately there's like yeah 100% 100%. What tell me from your perspective what what is that difference to you?

Well they both include selflessness but one of them has a goal. The other one doesn't. doesn't. doesn't. We're both we're moving in a direction. Yeah. We're we we have we have a we have a shared shared goal and mission that we're on. Friendship is different. Friendship is selflessness, love, companionship, there for each other, but you you don't sit down with your friend and go like, we're trying to get here. Let's figure it out together. And so, yeah, there's there's a difference there. Both require, I think, a high level of selflessness, but the team also requires that we're we're rowing in a similar direction, which I think also more friction will naturally bubble up because there's more going on there.

friendship is like there's a lot more compassion and empathy and like oh they're going through it right now not a big deal maybe we don't talk for a couple weeks get back together it's like but like we have to live with each other every day no matter what cuz we have a very specific goal and I don't care how mad I am at you or not or whatever it's like I show up to next day or I get on these mics with you 5 minutes later and it's like we got to we got we have we have a goal to get after and so there's definitely a huge difference difference difference I might not like you today but we're going to hang out this out you should see you See, when Justin's in a bad mood, he's like this moody LITTLE CHICK OVER THERE.

OVER THERE. OVER THERE. HE'S STILL He's still He's still You know what I'm saying? He's quiet. He gets even quiet. Yeah. Yeah. Get even quieter. You know what I'm saying? A little harder. little harder. little harder. Yeah. Yeah. It just grunts little everything's heavier. Everything's heavier. The mic heavier heavier. The door closes heavier. This makes so much sense. I see it. Like a tantrum. I get angry, dude. I'm getting angry. I mean, everybody, hey, but he he gets the job done, does his podcast, shows up, does what he's got to do, gets through his [ __ ] you know what I'm saying?

And like like a team does that. A team understands the goal is above each other thyself. And so even when there's, you know, stuff surf bubbling or stuff going on, it's like we have a mission and we can't we can't [ __ ] let this simmer for 3 days. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I really feel that um teammates cuz in my world for example and I'm just going to use Carrie Gabrielle Lion also one of my sister's best friends right um I if there's friction if there's tension if there's you run towards each other you don't run from each other right that's one thing another thing is uh her wins are my wins like I want my [ __ ] I want all my friends I want my loved ones to win [ __ ] you guys are like, again, I'm like, I want you guys to win.

You're winning. What I'm trying to say is that Car's independent wins, her desires that have nothing to do with me, they do spiritually because I love her so much and her wins mean everything to me. And me. And me. And you know, there's this um was it Simon Simon Senic? I think it's he he talks about how um it's less common for friends to celebrate your wins. Totally, right? To versus like you're more likely to have people in your life, your friends, whatever, who will be there for you when you're down versus when totally you're [ __ ] winning.

Yeah. Everybody wants you to be successful when the underdog until you pass them and then they're not so excited anymore. excited anymore. excited anymore. Right. Exactly. So I think that that also plays into well to me that's what defines like a a real true friendship. Like I definitely have I have a lot of acquaintances. Uh I have people that I would call friends and then I have like real friends. Yeah. friends. Yeah. friends. Yeah. Right. Like and even so I have like and I have these friends that you know love to kind of root me along with this but they still want to make sure they're doing a little bit better.

You know what I'm saying? I'm saying? I'm saying? Until until they then then then they're different when you pass them. Then they're critical or they they don't hang around as much. But then I have like like you know brotherhood friends who can't wait to hear about the success or the things that you're doing and they're inquiring. They're asking they're oh my god what you guys and just it's a different level of friendship, you know, and there's those are a much smaller smaller number. This episode's brought to you by Seed, the world's best probiotic.

Hands down. Get 20% off. Go to seed.com/mindpump. Use the code 20pump to get that discount. back to the show. How has it been for you guys, you know, being so public, growing massively in the public in your personal lives? Like a couple things like I'm so curious to how you manage privacy and connection out here cuz that's a big deal for me. And then how has it also been in terms of like personal relationships as you've been growing? you know, have have certain relationships fallen out be as a result of result of result of It's I get conflicted with the public part of it.

Uh I there's it's it's it's conflicting because I like when people stop me and say, "Hey man, you you guys really help me." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But then the other part of it is like I am very protective of my family. So if I'm with my kids Yes. Uh, especially with my kids, I'm like, I don't want, in fact, if you listen to the podcast, you'll rarely hear me actually say their names. I'll refer to my oldest, my youngest, my 2-year-old, my four-year-old, whatever uh because of that.

So, there's a bit of a conflict, and I boy, I don't know if I'd ever want to be so publicly known that uh that I get stopped all the time, all over the place. Uh unless it was really benefiting people in a purposeful way and then I could kind of talk. I thought we were really mindful we were I thought we were really mindful about this and I I'm actually I think we have a really good healthy balance with it, right? It's inevitable the amount of people we reach that you're going to get recognized, right?

We go into big cities or places like that, it's almost always that you're going to have somebody run walk up to you or what like that. But we also again putting the business first. I mean we even we didn't want to grow our personal brand like it was mind pump Adam, mind pump Justin. Like it's the brand first. None of us try and really grow our personal pages. That's just by from the business growing that's kind of naturally grown. Uh it's always been grow the mind pump media page.

It's always about highlighting our staff and our people in front of us. Yes, we understand that people want more of us and so there's times where we step forward and we and we do that. None of us had ever wanted to. This is also why the dynamic works where S can dominate the conversation and none of us care. Nobody wants the limelight. Nobody's like, "Hey, it's when we first started. started. started. We don't desire that." There was four of us, right? So, when we first started, there was four of us, Craig, Craig, Craig, four hosts.

And uh one of the first conversations we ever had off air was like, man, like like I remember the first recording we did 15 recordings that never made it to air before we launched with him. And uh you know looking back now it's crazy because he would have [ __ ] the whole dynamic up cuz one of the first things cuz one of the first things that happened was like after the first episode he he he cared so much because he was been on covers of magazines. He was the most already well-known.

He he cared so much about equal air time. time. time. You know what he said? He literally like all right S you talked a lot on that one and then the next one Adam did this and so the next one I'm going to open this you're going to open it and we're like no no no what? what? what? Yeah. All of us were like, "Who cares?" "Who cares?" "Who cares?" Yeah, who cares? Who? That's not how I'd have a conversation. So, uh, so yeah. So, we, so early on, nobody wanted fame.

Nobody wanted attention. attention. attention. And I think because of that, we've had this really and and and I also think it helped that it was like slow growth. Like it wasn't like overnight success for us. I I imagine that would be really hard to be like a kid or a young person and also we're older, right? And uh be not known and then the next day you're a blockbuster movie and like millions. We had this like real so like we I remember like hey someone recognized me like it was like a big deal.

You know what I'm saying? Like somebody knew who I was. That's so crazy, right? It was like that one time it happened, right? And then it like started to happen a little bit more. more. more. We're also in our 30s when it started. Yeah. Yeah. Had we done in our early 20s, it would have been really probably more challenging. more challenging. more challenging. Of course, because it would have fed our ego more. We would have cared more about that stuff. But I think we figured out by this by the time we got to that place that uh no none of us really wanted it or liked it that much.

And so it it's and I think uh I'm probably the most open and sharing my personal life. I'd say probably out of all of us. Yeah. I'm the most public about that. And that's just to me that's more just kind of I feel that's the most authentic part of me is like like uh my son is such a big deal in my life. You like doing it. Very transparent. Right. Right. And so, uh, but I totally get where Sal's very protective of that and he's like, it's just a difference in personality.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I'm I'm like, and I understand like when all of them, I would say. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. See that you're the Well, I'm the meat between. meat between. meat between. Anyways, Anyways, Anyways, delicious. delicious. delicious. Yeah. No, what I was going to say, it's funny because I think that people listen to us like it's different because they actually know us. Yeah. It it's not like we're these people doing an act or, you know, I'm not like out there juggling fire or whatever, dude.

Like, I'm not like trying to really hard to get your attention. attention. attention. Like, you're you're finding me because you're growthminded and you're relate to your pursuit. Yeah. You relate to me on some level, my personality, cuz it's really who I am. And so, I don't know. I don't when I meet people and they they spot me out, it actually like I get excited about it cuz I'm like, "Oh, cool. you like what we're doing, you know, and it's helped you in some way. Usually, you know, used to be so weird, Roxan, early early days when we would meet uh fans, fans, fans, they we'd hang out with them, you know, for a little bit and they'd say, "You guys are just like you sound on the podcast.

Like, you guys are all so authentic." It was weird for us because I remember being like, "What do they mean? they mean? they mean? What do you mean I'm What do you mean? What do you mean I'm authentic? I'm just what else would I be?" And then we would meet and interview influencers and stuff and be like, "Oh, yeah. Okay, I see." cuz we turn the mics on and they become someone else. Then the mics would turn off and they would be someone else. I'm like that's what they mean.

they mean. they mean. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It just felt so strange to hear that cuz I'm like what else would I do? I've heard that as well. And then in my past career working with, you know, I mean I all kinds of [ __ ] celebrities, right? So I used to do, you know, the red carpet, the OS makeup, right? For for everything magazine covers. So, I've seen I've seen it and I don't have that gene, and I'm so grateful for this that like I've never given a [ __ ] about celebrities with all due respect to everyone's career and your talents and your great, but I don't care.

Care meaning I don't pedestal anybody. I can have respect for your craft, for what you've accomplished, but it there's no hierarchy. I don't have that way about me. me. me. Do you think that's because of your exposure, or were you think you were that way before? No, I think it's I it's how I how I how I You were before. Yeah, for sure. I think cuz I'm the same way, too. But I think a lot of it has to do with my exposure. So, yeah. Yeah.

My wife and I both have been around a lot of famous professional athletes, people like that, and I've seen enough to and behind the scenes that how effed up they all are and like and how much they suck at other parts of their life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That it's like, oh, they're just hyper good at this one thing, but then I don't admire anything else. Yeah. And so, I had enough exposure to that that it doesn't get I don't get starruck. I don't get excited. I don't think anything's I'm like, "Oh, they're really cool with that product.

I can I can separate that." But that's because of my exposure, not because I had this innate like innate like innate like you don't think you had because here's what I want to ask you just on that cuz we we don't have there's there's similarities in our upbringing. Not fully, but fully, but fully, but you know, my earliest years, lots of you know, domestic violence in the house, like hyper vigilant. I'm the second out of five. um second old so older sister I'm the second sister and then my brother's the trail behind me right so I'm their older sister and all of my siblings are as [ __ ] real as it gets like authenticity is just a throughine in my family um there's something about I think growing up in an environment too in those earliest years where I don't know you know you grow up in a house of violence where shit's like you just don't know what's I don't know I think it kind Yeah.

No, there's good there's good books on this that and then the ability for you to read like I you're you're you're probably right. Like I have ability to read people really well. That part. That part. That part. Yeah. Yeah. Really well. You had to learn that as a kid. You had to learn really really well. I can I can meet somebody famous or not famous in a very short period of time and like sniff out stuff like that. It's like animal [ __ ] instinct. You can just read it really quickly.

Yeah. So that's a fair analysis. Yeah. I mean, you still have to choose. I think maybe or this can go into a whole philosophical [ __ ] rabbit hole, but um you know, you you still maybe have to decide if you're going to, you know, value someone's value someone's value someone's status or not, even if you're reading them to be authentic or not. But I don't know. I think I think um there was never anything glamorous or over special about you know even though if you're somebody you've done great things you're in the public but that doesn't mean you're better than anybody and that's that that has and I'm grateful to have that gene and I feel that you guys operate very much in that same Yeah it's like no well and it's and it's and again then this goes back to something I was saying at the part that I think is so important is um you know because you've really just been who the [ __ ] and I don't mean to just it like I'm putting it down.

In fact, I think I think what you're doing is actually so [ __ ] important because I think that more people need to see realness, you know, need to also register this this part that you can actually build a kick-ass, I I like to call it delicious life, like a life where you're truly thriving um on on all different levels, you know, your relationships, your business, financially, [ __ ] health, like, and you're being yourself. You don't have to [ __ ] juggle fire. You don't terrible analogy. You know, you don't you don't have to do it.

You don't have to do it. I I can't I I want to see you do it, though. He can. I know. I believe that. I think to put it differently u you will not have uh a truly successful life unless you're authentic. you're authentic. you're authentic. That's right. That's right. That's right. So, so having money, fame, things, relationships relationships relationships based on a lie is hell. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so, um I I I like to communicate that to the younger generations. We have younger people that listen to us, especially fitness people.

And the fitness space is very easy to be fake. Um, and I I try to communicate that to kids. It's like, uh, first off, 99.999% of you will not will never accomplish a level of fame and money that you're worshiping. But even if you do, and it's based on a lie, you've you've now entered hell. entered hell. entered hell. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because now you're getting adoration for something that you're not. you're working and making money uh doing something that you don't feel a deep sense of purpose behind which is very hard to break free from.

It's easy to break free from something that you're doing that's not giving you something worldly that also doesn't have purpose. You're like, "Ah, what's the point?" But imagine making millions of dollars bullshitting. bullshitting. bullshitting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now you're like, "What do I do? I got to give up all this money to be authentic." And so you're in this kind of weird twisted space that becomes more and more uh hellish. uh hellish. uh hellish. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's a myth. It's the same myth and I like to use fitness because great analogies in fitness.

It's like you can't hate yourself into better health because hating yourself is unhealthy. Right. So you can't be successful uh in the truest sense with real life satisfaction without being authentic. Even if you are the 0.1% that makes the money and the fame from doing so, uh you've put yourself in a very bad place. By the way, the evidence is there. I don't I'm not just saying this philosophically. Look at the addiction rate, suicide rate of celebrities. People who have access to all the things that we think uh are great.

All the money and the sex and the drugs and the pleasure and the fame fame fame and they're they're terrible. They're doing terribly. It's it's all public so we know, but they're doing very poorly. So, um, it's a myth. Those are myths. Those are more of those values that that probably to back to your original start of this conversation that probably connected all of us because we all were thought this way before we before we all got together. We had all arrived at that place in our lives.

And so, that's a pretty tight thing to be bonded at. bonded at. bonded at. Totally. Totally. Totally. So, that helps with your collective consciousness theory. I think that's important. Aligned. Yeah. Very aligned. Alignment. Yeah. In that for sure. So, it's crazy it's crazy it's crazy what I So, this is a fun thing that I did recently where I I was calculating how many lives have I lived so far in my 47 years. Um, I'm at 10. So, uh, you could read the book when it comes out, but um, in the span of your 10, but you said almost 11 years, right?

What? So, What? So, What? So, it'll be 11. It'll be 11. Okay. So, in your 11 years together, how many lives have you lived? So essentially like how with the core of who you are staying true, but your identities have expanded. They have evolved. They've shifted, right? They've had to to be where you are now. Definitely. Definitely. Definitely. So So So I feel like two within this tenure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like I've lived two lives in this tenure. 11 years. Wouldn't you? I I feel like you have to.

I will you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Probably about two. I could get I mean I could be specific. Well, you're obvious. You're obvious cuz you were atheist. Atheist. I mean that's you say you became a father. father. father. I became a that's exactly what I I went I was I when we started this I was saying things like I may never have a kid kid kid to and I'm on the complete opposite of that. that. that. So that's why I say two lives in this 11 years.

years. years. Yeah. I would say um you know one of the big myths I would say big one of the big myths I would say that that the world sells you that I believed is that your identity is tied up in uh what you do your accomplishments uh how you look um the people that you are attracted to whatever like that's your identity and so you go through life constantly shifting that shifting that shifting that in search of what your identity is but to give you an example let's say let's uh say you're famous because you're a great singer.

great singer. great singer. So that's your identity. I'm this wonderful singer. And then you have an accident. You lose your voice. Who am I? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Who am I now? Or your identity is in your beauty and then you get older. Or your identity is in your business and then you retire. Or your identity is in your children and then they grow up and now you're at home without your kids. Um, and so for me now, I mean, what I've realized now, which I think is is true, is it's it's uh it's not about who I am, it's about who's I am, who do I belong to.

So my identity now is in is in is in uh in in Christ. And so uh he determines who I am, not me. And that is very, you talked about freedom earlier. freedom earlier. freedom earlier. That's very freeing. And so wherever I go, I know who I belong to. M um and does that mean of course I'm going to grow and change that's that's the that's the process but it's very difficult without that because otherwise it becomes this uh searching uh and this constant searching uh and I think eventually it reaches a fervor where you're grabbing you're grabbing you're grabbing and then time runs out and it's like yeah so is that two or three lives in 11 years years years that would be two one before and one after long answer.

She likes the deep. Was that two or three? I don't know. Granular. Granular. Granular. There was a nine. You know what I'm saying? What was that? How many is that? Right. Right. Right. Well, you came in just freshly divorced. Yep. Yep. Yep. Right. So, you still think it's two? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I could I could Are you kidding me? I I could give you a list of 15. 15. 15. Wait, what is it? I mean, I don't know. Like uh like uh you know, general manager, fitness guy.

No, I mean like in this 11 years just in our 11 years. I mean that's cuz of course I can think of a ton more of but I'm thinking like in in the our window together. Well I was a I would have way back. way back. way back. Yeah. I would have never got married again. That's what if you asked me that after my divorce. Never again. You said it. I would have never again definitely had more kids. Never put myself in that situation where I could lose you know being with them you know all the time.

Like never again. So that was a massive shift. You can the fear that Yeah. You may have had like four, bro. Might have. Might have. Might have. Yeah. You might had like four. Like married, divorced. I'm not going to ever have kids again. Married, kids, atheist. Yeah. Maybe he's like six. He's like six. I think Justin, you're like you and I too. Yes, unless you count heavy metal and like music. What would What would divide your two? your two? your two? Um Um Um I guess it's more of like a confidence of being myself.

So it's more like uh I guess it you do have a lot more swag now. Yeah, definitely a lot of swag swag. You were still hot back. I I I extracted that from you completely. completely. completely. I'll stop you all. So it just Yeah, I became part of you guys. guys. guys. But yeah, I I think I think for me it's just been um you know, trying to figure out how to not um project myself in terms of how I I I thought too much about how it was being received like and how like how like how like I could filter my words and how I could sound and and so it was just a very like I was conscious of everything I was doing as opposed to like just being in the moment and like letting it out and and and so I think it's one is reserved and one is like less reserved.

I totally can see that. And now what you got me thinking is uh do you remember when you settled into that version of you? Sorry I'm hijacking your jump in here podcast on your podcast. No, no. When When did When did you Cuz I I think I have it and I want I don't want to say three weeks ago. YEAH. YEAH. YEAH. CUZ I I totally feel like there was a a major transition of that version of you where you were like overthinking what you said.

If I said enough, do I need to like and then there became like the chill Justin like I might just sit and not talk this whole [ __ ] podcast if I don't feel like it or no or Yeah. Or else. And so you did settle into that. When did did you remember when you felt that transition? that transition? that transition? Yeah, I think um I I put a lot more emphasis on and it I told you guys when I was going through that process of like um when we had um what's it called?

The um the guy that used to do like improv. That's totally what I thought. Okay. So that's that's what I thought it was. You think that was the catalyst for it? But yeah, cuz I was I was thinking, you know, cuz I would throw little wittedy quotes in there whenever you guys would go on your rants and and you know, I was getting a lot of feedback that like there was some humor there and so I was like maybe I got to work on that. Like I don't know, maybe I should be the funny guy or you know, I don't know.

Like I've never done it before. Like it's just like I'm not a standup comedian or anything and like it's not pre-planned. This is just like what comes out. Yeah. Uh and so I was like maybe I could work on that and uh figure out how to work on that specifically. So it's a skill and uh and then I was like n but yeah that started the catalyst for me to realize well I could just say whatever I'm going to be okay because like what comes out like maybe it's not perfect but it wasn't uh it wasn't horrible.

It wasn't like like I felt later on like I totally regretted that, you know, like that's that's the thoughts that would go through my head as I would say things on the podcast was just like, "Oh my god, like somebody's going to hear this and be like, "What the fuck?" So that's when I felt it. I didn't want to say that first cuz I wanted to hear what you had to say, but that's when I That was huge. I thought I felt that. I thought And I remember commenting to Katrina, I'm like, "Oh man, Justin is just like when we went through that whole process for for almost a year, huh?

We have a year." year." year." Yeah, maybe more. For a year we used to have an improv coach. That's amazing. That's amazing. That's amazing. Monday before podcasting that we used to that was how we would and it was so out of the box was and it was so out of the box improv games. improv games. improv games. Yeah. There were all these game we actually our we have our every Friday now. It's Friday, right? Yeah. Friday. Yeah. Friday. Yeah. Friday. We do it for our staff.

So our trainers our trainers all do it just for communication skills. It just would helpful. helpful. helpful. Yeah. It was it would just warm us up, loosen us up like that. And uh it really did help. I thought and I really noticed a difference on I think it helped everybody. But I that's when I felt like you fully settled in on and it so so you just basically let yourself out. It wasn't necessarily you know um adding anything as much as it was allowing Justin. allowing Justin.

allowing Justin. I don't think I really like adopted a new identity. new identity. new identity. No. Yeah. Cuz like I wased maybe you just let out more. You settle in. You took off the brakes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. And two. Yeah. It's it's definitely built a lot more confidence and and gave me that ability to articulate and to communicate better and just being around them even helped that quite a bit just because it's like it's it's that pressure cook me just being here has been such a learning experience for me.

Uh so but yeah I honestly I was a father before kind of coming in so that was interesting and you know and so I actually related with S a lot with that but then like you know Adam became a father and so it was like a weird everything kind of shifted and molded and then uh you know and then we all kind of were spiritually aligned now and like what's happening we're becoming Voltron Voltron Voltron this [ __ ] is getting weird. No, you didn't. Yeah, you [ __ ] did.

You just went Voltron. That was such a great Oh, it's the best. That was a [ __ ] great cartoon. That and Thundercats. I stopped with Voltron. I love it. Well, what is curious about? So, as a team and in individually, what's stretching you guys right now? Oh, having having a staff of over 30ome people and and and and leading something this big. We had a big We've had a big pivot in the company. Yeah. Yeah. Huge pivot. Yeah. Huge pivot. Um pivot. Um pivot. Um because you because you because you Well, because well businesswise, we're at a real So we here um I believe or we believe that we are in a a crucial time where the consumer is going to seek one of two things.

either you're going to go in the direction of all the things that AI has to offer which is incredible and very accurate and good for a lot of things and going to be cheap and inex and all these things and then there's going to be people that value hightouch and human and human and human humans to like like I know it's more expensive I know it's more effort that's okay I value human connection and value that so much and it was very clear what was going on in our business because we have digital products that we sell that do not require human at all.

And watching it plateau and then start to dive and realize that AI is going to really start to consume that side which was our baby, what we built this business off of. And so it was we have to get back in touch with our people and actually making human connection again. And we have to do that through and since we're so big, we can't possibly do that ourselves. We have to do that through trainer personal trainers and getting back to actually training people one-on-one and meeting with them and like that human connection.

connection. connection. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so we saw that last year and we made the massive pivot to focus in that direction. And so we've been scaling that and the bottleneck to that is bodies. So the only reason why that's not 3x the size already is cuz we need about 50 trainers to support the volume that we can handle and we're at 17 right now. So, um, and and we we want really good. So, we're not going to try process. We want to really And that's, you know, there's another reason too, Adam.

Like, that business is was there for us a long time ago. time ago. time ago. But, uh, we were all trainers. Remember, we were coaches and trainers for a long time before we started this. So, we have a lot of respect for what good trainers do. I mean, a good trainer will change your life. Yeah. There's a lot of trainers out there, but good trainers, there's not a ton. ton. ton. And so, it's like if we offer this service, it has to meet that standard. Sure.

Sure. Sure. And so, we just weren't ready to uh, you know, put the time and effort. Well, that's right. To her point, right? That's like we knew that that would stretch our capacity like selling digital programs. digital programs. digital programs. Yeah. You write a program, put it together, sell it. Like, it's evergreen. People are buying every day by the hundreds. We don't have to think about it. I mean, we have a customer service team that handles people that call in. What? It was a rad business.

Yeah, it was it was it's a it was a very rad business, you know, very cool. But we knew the the monster we were setting out building if we were going to if we're going to get back to having people and trainers and like that's and we stayed away from it for so long because we knew how much it would stretch our capacity to do it. But it became very clear that it was either or and none of us want to go all AI direction. AI direction.

AI direction. It's been so rewarding though. Oh, it's the culture that this is just awesome. Oh my god. It's I mean, we used to come to work and it used to be just the four of us, you know, quiet and for years. For years it was like that. So, the energy in here is nuts. You see how much got super cool, super cool vibe, the culture that's building and just the you talk about purpose. It's even it's strengthened even more now cuz the impact that these coaches and trainers are having are having are having cuz I'll hop on some of these coaching calls, show my face, hey, what's happening?

How's And I hear what they're doing and it's just wow. It's amazing. Oh, it's I get the chills. But it's definitely I would say, wouldn't you guys all agree that I mean you're working harder more and stretching your capacity more today than feel like it though because it feels Well, yeah, it's rewarding. But I mean, the level of work and effort, so we're definitely being stretched uh right now. That's definitely That's definitely That's definitely We're running more than we have in a long a long time.

We we were we were cruising for a while there. There was a couple years there where uh business was kind of on a rock. Yeah, we were we got fat and nappy. A little bit of chunkiness, but you guys value challenge. Oh, absolutely. You guys Yeah. It's fuel, right? fuel, right? fuel, right? Yeah. I mean, it shook. I mean, we uh we fired our marketing uh company. We let go like it woke we needed it. We all look back and we go like the best thing that happened to us was the challenge and and being because it forced us to grow.

It forced us to stretch our capacity and we were we like that. We So it's like and and I know I'm like um we all know that you know we'll look back five or 10 years from now and like in the fire is the best part always. always. always. This is the when you're in it and the journey like once we we win again and we're on the top and whatever and we build that whole side like what that's cool and all but it's like this is the good time.

The good time is when like the uncertainty, the totally the you know like the hustle, the like that's that's the rewarding part and remembering that right trying to be present present present and go like even as as stressful as it can feel sometimes because you have this responsibility of so many people and and the weight of that but then also remembering like yeah that's why I get up every day like that's cool that like there's a there's a lot riding on the line. I love that it's this part that I love.

You have to have a lot of emotional discipline, discipline, discipline, right? right? right? Yeah. And and and that really relates back to to mastery, mastery of self, right? To not let your emotions just have their way with you to really, you know, you ever hear me tell the story of Katrina, the call that that I had that gave her on the in the truck on the ride home when I was bitching about S. I knew it was about Wait, I've heard about I knew it was about Whoops.

Wait, can you say it again? Cuz I've heard the story and never said it again. I knew it was business. I knew it was me. That's funny. If I never slipped out over here a little bit too much. Uh yeah, so this was like um we were at this studio. So it was it was definitely uh within this time frame. So it had been about six or seven years ago, somewhere around there. And uh typical day I'm I'm frustrated with S. I'm I'm cussing him out as I'm driving home.

[ __ ] wish he would do this and wish and like I'm venting right about and there's other things going on. It wasn't obviously just Sal. There's a lot of stuff that we had a lot of pressure going on at that time and I'm and I'm venting to her and I've got her on my truck speaker phone and I'm probably ranting for like seven minutes straight or something like that and then I finally like catch a breath, you know, and then she's and it's like silent and I'm like, "Hello, are you there?" She's like, "Yeah, are you done?" And I'm like, "Well, yeah.

What do you what do you have to say? She's like, long pause. Would you have it any other way? And it just hit me like a ton of bricks. I'm like, god damn, you're right. Like, if it was easy, it would be no fun. If I wasn't frustrated and trying to figure it out and anybody could do it, like, it would be lame. And I had this I did I had this I had it gave me a whole another level of appreciation for my partners, the struggle, the all that.

It's like, dude, of course I don't want it to be easy. There's no there would be no there'd be nothing rewarding at the other side if I didn't have those moments of like this is hard or I'm frustrated. It's like and she's like, would you want it any other way? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, god damn, you're right. Right. Right. Right. She's badass. She's badass. She's badass. Oh, she is badass. That's I love those bottom line moments. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Because they just settle everything.

Oh, totally. Totally. super pivotal moment in the for me in my journey and and walk through all this stuff like that. Like cuz I there's obviously been many of other times for many other reasons where I felt like that and I always always always draw back to that moment of like she's right like right like right like this is the part that I like. You know what I'm saying? If it was so easy that everything fell in line and everything every decision I made worked out perfect, how boring would that would that be?

Right. And so I always draw back to that in any any moment that we're having of just like, hey, would I want it any either way? No. Hell no. Like the fact that it's hard is what I love. I relate to that deeply. You know, a lot of people I've said this before on the podcast a lot, but when we think about uncertainty, and I get this cuz I especially in my 20s, it's like you want to you want so much control. You want you're trying to create certainty out here in uncertainty.

That's what we think we want, right? until you start to understand it's actually not. First of all, you don't want certainty out here. That's boring. That's like the Twilight Zone. That's some [ __ ] weirdass [ __ ] where basically there's no magic. There's no possibilities. There's no miracles or [ __ ] any of that, right? What we want is certainty in here, certainty in self. That no matter what I'm going to navigate out here in this uncertain terrain of life, that I will I'll be okay. I'll find a way to thrive.

[ __ ] I'll get better every take punches, get up, you're better for it, right? It's that's the part that I think if if more people can register, oh, I'm not really it's not about out here. I want the open playground of possibilities, but what do I need to do to feel more certain? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And certain doesn't mean I have all the answers. answers. answers. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It really just means I trust myself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And I have I I I will do for me it's always about the heart.

What my heart is directing me towards I will have the courage to take that step forward into uncertainty knowing that no matter what I'm going to face, it's going to be good for me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So long as I'm looking at it that way. It's also a myth that there's uh certainty anyway. Uh you don't know. And so, so it's it's also just a you get caught in that game of trying to control the outcome and you're going to you're going to get you're going to hit a wall because there is no certainty anyway.

No. No. No. So, it's not a choice of, you know, your way is better than the other way. There is no other way. Yeah. I mean, otherwise you get stuck in this trying to control everything all the time the time the time and then you're fearbased. Oh, absolutely. Fear-based. And you're clinging on to every single You could create probabilities. create probabilities. create probabilities. Sure. There's no certainty. You don't know. know. know. So, what limiting belief slashfear slashfear slashfear each of you, what what have what's been maybe the biggest one or one that comes top of mind when I even say that to you in the last 10 years that you've had to rescript, let go of, evolve to be the man that you are in this moment?

moment? moment? That's one of the This is one of our problems. We're deliriously confident. Yeah, that's definitely another one of those like all of us are unbelievably I mean to just to have a very strong self-belief. That's one of probably one of the most attractive qualities that I found in all these guys is that we're going to suck. This is going to be hard. We're not going to be good at it. So what? what? what? Like everybody everybody in here has made peace and I and I feel this way at almost any crossroad that they've had in their life with the worst outcome.

Mhm. Well, what happens if this thing doesn't work out or what happens if we like uh then we'll do this or we'll figure it out. Like I'll be alive still. We'll be fine. fine. fine. Everybody has that in here. Everybody has that. And so at least I I don't know if I'm speaking out of turn and everybody I just don't like I can't think of a thing where I have have have I don't know. There's al there's just kind of like I mean I could even create a a a scenario where everything blows up but I'm with these guys and we're That's what I mean.

And we're walking through fire. Yeah. And that's And that's And that's like strip strip it all from me like Okay, cool. We used to say that. We used to say like this in slow motion. Yeah. Yeah. Just holding hands. Bad ass. Bad ass. Bad ass. Well, you know what comes to mind through my heart when I hear you say that is honor. There's a lot of honor in this room. You guys really You carry a lot of honor independently, but especially also for each other. each other.

each other. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. More that Navy Seal stuff. Yeah, there you go. Yeah. No, I I get it. No, I love that. that. that. Yeah, it's it's it's it's palpable for me. Like I feel it deeply and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Um I Well, wait, actually, limiting beliefs. You're not off the hook. Can't steal out of there's a past. I know. I I know that um um um or fear something that you had to re think, you know, what could be a limiting belief?

probably less so now, but now I'm at least aware that it's there. there. there. Is that I could do anything I put my mind to. I can make anything happen. Nothing can stop me. That's a lie. That's a myth. That's a myth that a lot of us believe. The truth is I don't know everything. The truth is I can't do everything. And the truth is, uh, that I'm going to need to rely on other people. Uh, and so, but the final truth of that is that I'll be okay.

be okay. be okay. I'll be okay. Yeah. I'm going to be okay. Yeah. But but but if you know that that that was it would have been a limited belief before for sure that I can do anything which sounds so awesome and empowering until you're met with the reality that uh that life is going to throw at you that you can't. can't. can't. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's it's something's going to happen and you're going to be in a place where it's like I can't do everything on my own.

Right. So humility really comes in huge huge huge and allows you to be uh more like you can kind of surrender more which that gives you more freedom. That's right. That's right. That's right. I love I love that word humble with us too because I think that we have this weird uh weird uh weird uh ultra confident cocky yet humble at the same time personalities. Everybody does. Everybody in here has this like I totally agree. Yeah, it's very felt and it's been the whole way through way through way through as you know earlier some people misread it sometimes but like someone like someone like someone but yeah but I think but you know what I think that has a lot to do with the person reading totally you know what I mean totally I think there's something to be said about I just [ __ ] put something up about this the other day like have conviction in what you're saying you can still be humble you can still have humility and in fact I think that sometimes people are like oh I'm just trying to be humble it's like no you're just not sure about what you're [ __ ] you're actually hiding right now.

You're using the idea of humility, but it's not true. And and that's okay. Like no judgment, but like the more honest confidence would say, um I uh I'm scared right now, but here's what I think. There you go. That's that's humble confidence. Uh not saying anything is just fear. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, that's the there's a difference there. Yeah. I think well that kind of goes in line with what I was going to say is is really like this entire business is like something I feared. So if you're going to go that direction like for me I seek that out though and that's been my mo since athletics since I was a kid.

Um, and because I know on the other side of that what that looks like and I grow and I become stronger and it it helps me um builds my confidence and it it just builds me up as a person. And um two, I know I'm going to be okay because of the discipline and the practices that it takes um to become better and to become good and to then further, you know, get into the point where you could consider yourself really good at something. Yeah. um there's a process to that and so I always knew that in different directions you know I wasn't real excited about the prospect of talking all the time uh initially but over the years it just it became more fun it became more natural it you know all these things like um it it started to get uh it resonated more with me but it initially it was like fear panic you know all these feelings uh but I know that um more I chip away at it, I was very confident it would get better.

better. better. That's one of my favorite quotes. The other side of fear resides success. I mean, it's so true. You you've lived your life that way. I I feel the same way, too. Like run towards it. Another thing that's connected us. I mean, we're obviously we continue to unpack all these things that Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very similar. Yeah. You guys have that same trait for sure. M well what do you what's in in your journey so far has there been moments um where you weren't sure were things like maybe there was I don't know rejection or things that came in to your experience as you're on this journey and you're building that shook your confidence confidence confidence what what what I want to give you something but it's really hard because that's part of why this works so well I do there definitely moments where we question if we're making the right decision vision or going the right direction.

direction. direction. Okay. Okay. Okay. Well, yeah. Well, yeah. Well, yeah. Not shaking our confidence. Totally not. Totally not. Totally not. Yeah. Where it's like uhoh. Cuz even the story you brought up with the guy like right like uh we were very uncertain about that. There was disagreement argument around should we should we not s pushing back me going come on we need to figure this. Let's just try this. Like so there's there was uncertainty there. Um but again also part part of that discussion was making peace with the worst outcome and we'll solve it.

you know, it's like, hey, if it does and it's wrong, we'll feel it. We'll fire the guy. We'll move on. Or it'll work. It'll feel good and we'll know it. And so, let's just go. Let's just agree. And so, that's one of the things that works really well is that is that is that we when we disagree on stuff or there's uncertainty and maybe one guy steps forward and feels he has more confidence in an area, uh, the other three submit and go like, "Okay, like you seem to you make the best argument.

you feel right about it. The key to that is that when that guy makes the wrong decision for the business and it fails, we all own it, too. We all It's not I knew you were wrong. We should have done that. It's like like like it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't Nobody thinks that way. Nobody thinks that way. We We celebrating success. celebrating success. celebrating success. Porn ads were a bad idea. Yeah. Somebody comes up with a great idea and then it crushes. It's really easy to be like, "We made a great decision, guys." decision, guys." decision, guys." Sal takes credit for all his ideas.

For sure. Right. Justin came up that was such a good idea I had this this this I think just a collective idea we were you guys is like we just submit just my idea now now what we do is like one of our great ideas we like hey that was a great idea idea idea you know what's so funny and I just want to as a woman this is important to say um you guys are really this you really have a beautiful balance harmoniz ization of your masculine and your feminine energy.

You really do because you guys are boys. I see it. Like even in that moment, it's s But there's there's there's such a a strength to you guys. It's not postured. It just is. You guys just like again, I can go super poetic cuz that's just me. But it's like your spines are really tall and strong, but you're not sticking your chest out. You don't have anything to [ __ ] prove. You're just you just are. And even the love that is so felt for you, for each other.

I mean, that to me, I just equate it to like you guys are directional, you're logical, you have your, you know, sarcasm. This is like you're very masculine, but then there's that empathy, that compassion, that selflessness, that, you know, the creativity together that the feminine. And it's just, it's so beautiful, especially especially especially in these days. There's a lot of talk about masculine energy and toxic masculine and all that [ __ ] and I'm like, you know what? Just like here, just have a look. Okay, I'm saying it.

It's my [ __ ] show. show. show. Here's three [ __ ] men who just you don't have to say anything. You don't have to do anything. You're just you just you embody it. And and I really just want to recognize all of you for that. It's beautiful. You guys are fathers. I think you guys are bringing the whole [ __ ] cool dad thing like back into back into back into Yeah. back into consciousness into Yeah. It's beautiful. I mean, amongst all of the I mean, radical things that you you've shifted so many lives.

You've sh not shifted shifting. It's it's happening still. And then on top of that, you know, just what I just shared, I think it you're a beautiful example of men who don't have anything to prove. You're driven. You're very heart ccentric. Um, and it's just it's it's it's needed. I think that this this is this is the [ __ ] that should be on the front pages and highlighted and [ __ ] going viral. The this stuff right here. Talking about the toxic mascul masculinity thing. really curious from a woman's perspective.

Do you think that that is because that that they lack the feminine energy side? That's where that comes from. comes from. comes from. So, what is it about Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. that doesn't come off toxic? Yeah. Okay. Sitting in this room with three very four very alpha dudes, right? That doesn't come off that way. Is it is that what it is, you think? And then when it does come off as toxic, is it because it lacks that feminine energy? energy? energy? Yeah, I think there's just suppression of sort of the principles and the the the the aspect of the feminine in men that carry that trait.

Like for example, um um um you you're and I speak about all of you, there's you don't need to posture your strength and that in of itself shows a softness about you. But softness is not weakness, weakness, weakness, right? There's nothing delicate about any of you, right? But I sense and feel your softness softness softness because it's alive within all of you. You have no problem with that part of you you you and that makes you very strong without trying. Yeah. And that's just one example, right?

Which is that Yeah. One of the best uh you mentioned something about fatherhood. We all will remark on this. The best compliment we ever get ever is when a caller calls in, young man, and he says, "I didn't want to be a dad and now I want to be a dad." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All of us when we hear that, we're like, "Oh, yeah, for sure." And because um I think men and women have been lied to for a long time, but men men men uh I think for a long time have really bought into a terrible lie, which is that fatherhood is a burden.

a burden. a burden. A burden. Dedicating yourself to one woman, boring, balling chain. uh that responsibility is terrible. Freedom is no responsibility. Go be the rich jack dude that bangs a bunch of chicks and never has kids and doesn't want to have any responsibility. Like a terrible terrible terrible uh terrible lie. And if that's you, if that's what you want to do, then you know, everybody do your own thing. But I think a lot of young men for a long time bought into that. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And that's toxic masculinity. It's not real. It's projected fake media media media uh masculinity. It's overcompensation. So, um, So, um, So, um, yeah. So, and I think you want to develop good masculinity. I'll tell you what, there's two things. Uh, well, personally, we trained a lot of people and most of our clients were women. So, if you want to be an effective trainer, you have to figure out how to work with clients very well. And if most of your clients are women, you got to figure out how to communicate, connect and understand and listen and and you know, and all that uh with women.

The second thing is men need to have they need to be around other good men. We need that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. uh a a man without good men around him is undisiplined and um uh wild. Uh what I mean by that is there's no there's no containment, no structure to his strength and his aggressiveness and his drive that we we can have inside of us. But when you're around good men that you respect, uh these guys can check me like nobody else and I love it.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate it. Uh and so men need that. And a lot of men are isolated. A lot of men don't have that. A lot of young men don't have that. They're either in their rooms on video games. They're stuck on pornography. They're not out there talking to women. They're not out there trying to to to build themselves. And they're not with other men that are doing that. And you get that in teams sometimes. Sports teams will do that. You'll hear sometimes young men young men young men will tell you like a really transformational time in their lives when they got on that football team, the great coach and the team built it.

It's because you got to be around other guys that uh you know, iron sharpens iron. It's an old saying. So, you got to be around other guys uh that'll do that. Uh and that's often times when you meet a man like that, it's because he's been around other men like that. I I I feel that. Um it's a perfect segue to a question. It's kind of like a see me moment. So, I'd love for each of you to to to go say about each other. So, I I'll give you an example.

Justin, I would love for you to highlight something about both S and Adam that maybe Come on. Come on, baby. Well, good. Right in time for your 10 year. I get to go first. No. Highlight something about them that maybe that they don't they underrecognize themselves for like something really wonderful about them that maybe they don't give themselves enough credit for. Yeah. It's it's really funny that we're kind of going this direction because we we have um been working on a video for our 10 year and am I stealing it from me?

Well, the question is Oh, really? Oh, really? Oh, really? Yeah. It's very similar though similar question. So, none of us have heard none of us have heard of us. Spoiler alert. It'll be a spoiler alert out before. Yeah. But we all have said it. it. it. Yeah. It's kind of the same. You guys were worried I wasn't going to say anything nice and Of course I said something nice, dude. Whatever. I'm not the most sentimental guy, but I can be, you know, at times. But, uh, no, I what I said was um just a few things like S uh for me uh it's funny because we like he knows like in the beginning like I'm very skeptical person, new people like especially if like somebody's charismatic.

I I think for me it's like there's a little bit of reserve to really you know get to know uh that person further but he just I mean he won me over pretty much immediately after that just in his character and his integrity and uh just his care and his passion. I think for me one of the biggest things is just like how passionate he is. Like he is just such a a passionate person and that translates to so many different things and um it's family, you know, and it's like this caring, compassionate s that like not a lot of people see.

I mean, you get a lot on the on the podcast. you can see him talk to people um you know that call in and um yeah it's just like it's again he's a very masculine guy and he's like jacked and he's huge guy and all this and then he's like also like he could be like my mom you know like sometimes like he's just like oh he's really concerned like actually cares you know know know and you don't get that from a lot of guys so I think that's like you know a really awesome trait of his um I think uh for Adam I I kind of had a couple things.

I've known him a bit longer. Um, but the main thing with with Adam is just his unfiltered uh truth. uh truth. uh truth. Like he is like the most honest person I know. Like uh, you know, some people might, you know, take that the wrong way. Might be abrasive. Might like never been abrasive to me. Like tell me exactly what it is. Like I can deal with it. Um, and that's just how we start our relationship. It was just like very honest and it just he's never changed and he's always and so I know his true intention as much like even if he's like angry or like you know yelling or I know what he's trying to do.

You can read between the lines. I can read between I know why and and and I know this is for an intent and then I my mind always goes I I know him so well that it's like I know like his intent with this conversation. I know his intent with raising his voice for this person. I know his intent, you know, for uh doing something behind the scenes that nobody knows about, you know, like I know a lot of like anyways there's there's a lot there, but it it amounts to I guess if I have to like put on one thing, it's like the people don't get to see like how um how radically honest he really is like with with everybody like in like business people.

It's it's pretty remarkable. Uh but yeah. And so I you want Doug too or do you want you want you want Yeah. [ __ ] yeah. Yeah. He's like no. Yeah. No. No. For Doug like uh again like I I relate a lot to Doug just because of um being a soloreneur and like kind of like owning your own [ __ ] Like I I've always been able to really manage myself really well. Uh, and you know, by proxy to that, like I was able to kind of manage and lead people, but like I was always like, "Yeah, whatever, but I'm doing it and hopefully you do this too and you do it well and but really I'm going to handle my business and and to that degree." And and you know, Doug's just the kind of personality like he just he's on top of things.

He's doing things constantly. Um, but he's very like calculated with uh his delivery for like again we kind of call him the Zen master for a reason because he's kind of like he'll say the right thing sometimes in the midst of like conflict like conflict like conflict uh and bring us back to like okay well we let's get back on track like let's move back on on on the track and get and and go forward. he kind of knows how to steer us when when the emotions get high and and and and so I I I value that a lot.

Uh his calmness and his his uh uh presence that he brings in here. So uh and two just you know him just being a very he's he's also you know very caring person like very very much so. So he thinks a lot about other people so I've noticed that a lot. Well said. Awesome. Well [ __ ] said. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You getting me choked up? I'm the most likely to cry these days. Yeah. Oh, 100%. 100%. But you'll get me if you go, so don't do that, dude.

Please go. Oh, man. All right. I'll start with Doug. He's uh he's just he's just a good man. man. man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's a really I'm going to go already. You got me, dude. He's a very good man. And I remember when I I started I started training him and uh I remember meeting his daughter for the first time and realizing that uh she wasn't his biological daughter. Uh he but he he he talked about her and loved her um in a way that I would have never guessed.

And he's one of the best fathers I ever met. Um and he uh he's uh he is a very quiet he is a very uh he is a very quiet leader. And he does he does it in such a gentle way. He lets us be knuckleheads. He let us be knuckleheads for a long time. Uh and he gently steers the ship with a lot of wisdom because he knows that it's the only way to steer this ship. So, you know, that's uh that's Doug a lot of wisdom.

Um Justin uh is a is a is a rock. Very solid. Uh he's probably the most solid person I've ever met. Also an incredible father. very humble. humble. humble. Uh he will he doesn't uh um he doesn't toot his own horn ever. Uh if he hates it when we toot his horn. Um and I don't think we do it enough uh because I think it makes him uncomfortable. So we try not to make him uncomfortable. But um just uh just incredible solid integrity. And you know, Justin's the guy that guy that guy that you know, if um you know, it's a terrible example.

You know, you killed somebody to help you help you he helped you bury the body. That's a terrible example, but uh but I mean, but that's but that's that's just uh that's just Justin. And uh he he what he what he brings to you know people love him uh the most the most uh and their read is correct. They have a very accurate read on Justin. So if you love him it's because he's that's him. That's he's a lovable guy. Great guy. Super super loyal uh person.

So just solid. I I think of Justin I think of a rock for sure. Um Adam's the gas uh of the of the of the operation. So he's uh jet fuel uh and drives drives drives a lot of uh you know what happens here whether he uh points the direction or not. Um he's the gas behind the whole thing. Um he's uh Adam, you know, uh also incredibly loyal. Incredibly loyal. Like no question. Um you have to be in the room with Adam when he's negotiating with someone.

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, it's it's it's so uncomfortable and and and and and brilliant at the same time. Like I'm a good closer. I know I'm a good closer, but if I sit in a room with him negotiating, I feel like I don't know what I'm doing. And uh it's uh really cool, really cool to be around. Very very growthminded growthminded growthminded and incredibly resilient. Um, so he he can come across as like stubborn or whatever, but uh and but he is one of the most gross-minded people I know.

Um, and he's got such a big heart that that uh and he never his his charity charity charity or how giving he is is something he doesn't ever talk about that you find out about. M you'll find out about it. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Either through a side conversation or something and you're like, "You did that?" Um I mean like buying gifts for kids on Christmas that need gifts or uh supporting friends, you know, children to go through school and stuff like he just doesn't talk about it.

Um so that's just uh that's Adam. It's just uh for me to be with these guys. I can't even believe I'm here. Yeah. So it's just been it's an incredible blessing. So, and looking back, looking forward, I'm like, I don't know why or how, but I'm just grateful to be here. I think it's such a disadvantage to go last, dude. I'm all emotional. I wish I would have went first now, dude. You gave me So, I wasn't so emotional going into this. Uh, I'll start with Doug.

I I So, we did this, right? So, I and I I probably I talked for a long time. I'm sure Dylan's like, "Shit, we're going have to edit all of Adams because Adam went on forever about all these guys cuz I got so much love for all of I got so much love for all of them. And we're all so uh so different, dude. I think that's the part that still trips me out is to, you know, we really we really don't hang a lot outside of here.

A lot of people think that like we're like best of buds and we go hang out every weekend together. We rarely ever do stuff together outside of here, but yet we are so bonded and tight in here. And so it's such a you such a unique special friendship and and and bond and partnership that we have. And Doug for sure is uh you know we we call him Master Splinter, you know, Ninja Turtle reference, you know. So he's he is he's uh he's wise, he's unbelievably humble.

Um he only he could work in that position with the three of us. Any other personality would have never have worked with us. He uh he allows us to be ourselves and like the guy said, but yet still quietly steers. And so um and he's also I mean Doug early on was the guy who it could because I my brain goes at 2 three in the morning. I could I could text him and he's working too like he just quietly behind the scene manages and handles so much of the things that Sal Justin and I do not like.

So, an operation does not grow to this size unless you have a man like that that is and he he'll do it like he just would put his head down and not doesn't need to tell anybody what he's doing, doesn't need accolades for it, doesn't talk about it and stuff like that. But I know the amount of work it takes to manage all the operations of something that runs this this big. And I couldn't do it. I could not uh there's no way I could do it without him.

So, I lean on him so much for the just Sal brought up me being the gas and kind of steering the ship. Like, I couldn't do it without navigating with him. Just it'd be impossible. So, and only his personality works with with with us. No, no other person I would have. He's he just has this gift to be able to quietly lead like that. like that. like that. Um, Justin and I go back a really long time. One of my favorite things to to to share about Justin, the many things, but like one of my favorite is like he I remember when he used to work for me and I and I and I tell anybody like then I remember telling these guys it's like you don't have to ever tell Justin like he [ __ ] up or he shouldn't have done this.

Like he is so critical of himself that you just let him be and he just will go do the work and he doesn't want credit for it. He doesn't need to be the guy. He has this He's unbelievably confident and humble. Has incredibly strong integrity and doesn't need anyone to tell him. And he'll just I don't need to be the main guy. He can take the jokes of, "Oh, he's the other guy." But it doesn't work if you don't have a guy that's willing to take the bullets to do all the hard work and and not You Give me emotional.

Damn it, Roxan. Sorry. Not sorry. Then you go and I'm gonna go and he's gonna go. gonna go. gonna go. Stop it. Stop it. Stop it. I'll gather myself. Hold on. Gather myself. Uh myself. Uh myself. Uh yeah. So that Justin, if I keep talking about Justin, I'm going cry my ass off. But that's I mean there's a reason why we have a brotherhood, right? So he goes him and I go back [ __ ] almost 20 years now. So now. So now. So yeah, yeah, yeah, S is most like me and so different than me at the same time.

So, we uh uh you know, we talk about that we clash. That's because we have very strong uh um personalities, right? Uh if you listen to the podcast, you uh there's a good chance if you really like me, you don't like S. If you like S, you don't you don't like me. We tend to or there's obviously the fans that love everybody and appreciate the dynamic, but we tend to divide the audience. It's like like like you're either you either like my style or you like S's style or whatever.

And uh but that we so we share that that strong that strong personality and I love I love that about him. And something that I'll echo that the guy said that is just understated about Sal is like he is he's the mother of the group. group. group. He's truly he he truly is like of the entire company. entire company. entire company. So like he he is the person who will call you if something's going on in your family. And he does that with every single person in here.

So he has this huge warm heart. This is also why when I I get really defensive when people think he's like this cocky, arrogant dude. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Yep. Shouldn't have went last. Yes. Yes. Yes. Going last. You guys got me all all would have been me. Uh I I do I get I get really defensive when people think he's this cocky guy and I'm like, "Dude, you have no idea. He's probably the most humble person and loving Yeah, Yeah, boy. That uh 10 years, man.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh Uh Uh there's a there's a He's so talented, dude. The fact that, you know, would what I love and pisses me off at the same time is this guy has the ability to read something one time and then he could go teach it like a professor. professor. professor. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, I know. It's It's where my dumb ass has to read it four or five times, [ __ ] it up six times, saying it, go back and do it, and then maybe I can somewhat present it.

S can like go through something and like teach it as if he'd been teaching it for 10 years. It is the most crazy gift. And to watch it every day and and he can come to work, have stuff going on with family or had death in the family, stuff like that. and lights go on, cameras hit, and he can just he can turn that side on. And it's just it's so impressive. It doesn't work. We don't this uh this doesn't happen uh without him. He's um I mean, I always think of all of us like this basketball team or whatever.

And like, you know, it's a championship team that uh he's he's the star player. There's no way it exists. There's no way I could poss I can't do it without any of them, but like he he's definitely that guy and he carries it. uh he he he takes that in a way in such a humble way like he doesn't want the attention. He of all of us he's the most private uh wants the least amount of fame and attention from it. Yet he carries the most amount of it because we send him out to talk on all the podcast to stand up on front of the stages to write the book to to be that guy.

And so you know nobody could be better at doing that and he he does it with humility, grace, talent. Um, so so cool to see. But, uh, yeah, obviously I I love all these guys. Yep. Yep. Yep. I'm like, I want to clap. I want to cry. I'm I'm I'm so mad you got No, that was so special. It's so so special. You You guys are absolutely extraordinary. Doug, I know you don't Do you have a mic? I have a mic. I don't have a camera.

Fortunately, I do not have a camera. Do you want to be Oz and just speak it? Honestly, Honestly, Honestly, I can I could I could speak from the great beyond. great beyond. great beyond. Good. I'm so glad you made Doug go last. I get I get I get Oh, yeah. I thought I was going to get out of this. But the good news is I do not have a camera. camera. camera. Great odds. Great odds. Great odds. It's so funny cuz when we recorded for the 10year anniversary video, I went last, I think, and I did my thing and then afterwards, Danny, who was filming this, she said, "You know, you guys said so many of the same things." So, you know, I'm just really following up with what everybody else said and a lot of it's like ditto, you know, that that'd be my answer, but I mean, I'll go around quickly uh and potentially say something a little fresh uh from my perspective.

Justin in particular, um again, I I relate to Justin a lot and again uh Justin is a super solid guy, but one of the things I appreciate about him a lot is his creativity. He he's artistic and and a bit of a nerd, you know, and and but that's good. I love it, you know, because I was always kind of a nerdy artistic kid and I can really relate. He's a musician. He has a great eye for design. Uh he's funny. He he he has a good great sense of humor and uh so certainly you know Justin even though he he was quiet and I think it took a took me a while to get to know him the more I I know him the more I say boy I I really relate to this guy you know he's he feels like uh definitely uh we have that bond together.

Uh S, I mean we've it's been said more than once here is S um he does have that that fatherly. He called him mother, but I I call him because it's so sweet. That's why it's less motherly. It's less doineering. He's alpha. It's very feminine. You know, he's got a very, you know, call me, hey, you okay? I know you were kind of coughing earlier today. Make sure you take this and take that. That's that's motherly to me, bro. That's not fatherly, you know. The father is more like a get up, you'll be all right.

Yeah. No, so I really admire that and it's something I actually aspire to have more of is this like like empathetic side. So I know I knew Sal obviously because I hired him as my personal trainer trainer trainer and I started working with this guy and I said this guy is what's he doing in the small studio in Loscatos, right? Uh this guy needs to get his voice out there. I mean, when I came into the his private studio the first time, this guy, you know, dressed in a his uniform, uh, you know, with his clipboard, very professional.

And then as time went on, I I really got to see obviously his vast amount of knowledge and his ability to communicate, uh, and remember jokes. The dude can come off with so many jokes that how do you remember that stuff, you know? But, uh, yeah, just really, uh, multiaceted in his abilities. So, uh, Adam, I'm going to kind of echo what, uh, Justin said, and I admire it as much as it can be frustrating. I I so admire the ability to be ultra direct and to tell people exactly what you're thinking cuz I'm one to kind of like, you know, be the diplomat yet get away with it.

I mean, it's because he's so honest. People's like, well, [ __ ] I mean, he just he said it and it's like it must be true because he's just such an honest uh personality and way of approaching things. And so, I mean, I I so admire that and it's something I've actually been working to get better at. Uh, and then this company um his ability to oversee everything as he is our CEO and he is rightfully so. Uh, I don't think any of the rest of us want that title.

uh he has his fingers on the pulse of everything, everything. And sometimes it's almost annoying because he'll bring up something it's like, "Oh [ __ ] I forgot about that. How did he remember that?" Uh and it's very impressive, but uh I would, you know, want nobody else other than him to do that. that. that. Amazing. Amazing. Amazing. Clap. Okay. Well, I'm going to wrap. No more crying [ __ ] dude. Enough of the emotional stuff. Come on. Let's talk about fitness by the way. One of them died. And which one first?

You know. Well, wait. When's the actual celebration of celebration of celebration of So, it's uh December 7th or I think the fifth. Yeah, the fifth is when the video will be up uh when we'll we'll play it for our staff and everything like that. So, every year we have a big Christmas party which is also like our annual party. Fifth, Doug. Is that what it is? Yeah, that's correct. And uh because it's our tenure, we're I know our team is working on like a really cool coffee table book of all the photos of everything for 10 years.

They all the editing team pulled each of us aside and we've created some content about each other, but no one has spoke that. So maybe you got some of those tears out that cuz I'm sure it would have been flowing at the party. So on the on the spot that was uh even harder, you know, with them cuz it was easy with them not in the room. I think them being in the room uh brought more emotion and stuff cuz I didn't cry. I I said all that stuff before, but you pulled the emotion out of cry on video.

Did you? You did? Oh, of course you did. Of course the mother did. Of course the mother did. You know what I'm saying? So that's it. that's it. that's it. I love it. Well, 10 years. So here's my two final questions. So all the first one is, can we [ __ ] do this again? Cuz I have so many more questions. You guys are the [ __ ] Um [ __ ] Um [ __ ] Um truly so special to be here with all of you. The other question, the final question is 10 years from now, where do you hope to be?

Where do you you you Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think right now the mission is the is the trainer side. I think there is a possibility we can have 50 to 100 badass personal trainers underneath us. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And to and we all one of the things also that we had in common, we didn't touch on this is we all came from 24-hour fitness. fitness. fitness. Oh. and we all were a part of like the early days and uh as much as we'd rather be here and love what we do, there was there was like an energy about like uh that company when we were there that was really fun that we all share stories about the good old days of some of the stuff we used to do.

And so I think that we all share a similar vision of implementing some of that stuff like within our own company and we just never had the size to make sense to do that and it we're going to be there in the next year and so I think 10 years from now you know 50 to 80 employees and a really cool like event like I think that'll be uh I mean that's kind of what I see. I think uh we all think at one point, I don't know if it's in 10 years or not, that uh the podcast is a little less volume uh or frequency, I should say.

say. say. Um you know, we'll still we'll still do this. It'll be like three episodes. Yeah, I think we all agree we do this till we're 80. But I think I think uh the to do everything else that we do plus also create I mean you know you understand what it takes to come up and do episode like we we pump out five a week on top of everything else we do. And so I think uh in a perfect sweet spot it would be like three two or three and then and then really grow the inerson side.

So that's what I see. No% I'd love to have the the first like national uh coaching brand or company. There is no really representative company out there for what it could be like. So I'd like that. I'd like the standard. Love to create the standard of what it means. Mavericks. means. Mavericks. means. Mavericks. Yes. Yeah. Exactly. You are. You are. You are. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a mind pump movement for sure. for sure. for sure. I hope. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, I'm I'm I'm stating it for sure.

Yeah, let's go. Let's see. We'll have you back on in 10 years and see if it's We'll see. We'll have We'll do that before we'll do it before that. For sure. Justin. Yeah. I I mean, I'm excited about the trainer side just as much as they are. And then, And then, And then, you know, we we'd flirted around with the idea of like having a gym uh physically, physically, physically, but I the thing that's cool is like we get into something and we figure out um what's working and then uh what's working.

It's all kind of remote. It's very small right now, but like I I can't help but then see this grow and like where's this like like times 10 and and I do potentially see it maybe having a few locations that are actually physical. So, who knows? I mean, obviously that's that's something we joked about the beginning is like you might as well own a bar at that point. Uh, you know, cuz it's not something that was on our radar. Yeah. It's not combin or at least a big ass headquarters somewhere.

That would be fun. And just uh a whole fleet of trainers that we get to just to just to just talk to, pump up, motivate to teach, and just just just send them off to the world to do the good the good deeds. Well, I really believe because you guys were such legit contributors, like you were truly making a [ __ ] difference in life, in this world, that you are supported from the highest. highest. highest. From the highest and certainly over here. So, here. So, here. So, thank you so much for making time.

This has been so deeply special and truly an honor to be with all of you. That was awesome. All right, I know you like that episode. If you did, check this one out. One of the keys to fat loss is protein. It's true. If you're not eating a high protein diet, you're not going to burn as much body fat as you can. So, today's episode, we're going to talk about the smartest ways to use protein for fat burn and to build muscle. You got to watch this.

I wish I understood this earlier in my career. I think it was probably probably probably almost 10 years in when I started to just focus on this with clients. I knew it was important, but I don't know how important. Yeah, I also did. I knew it was important and but I also