Psychotherapist: 4 Trauma Responses That Control Your Behavior (Without You Knowing) | Meg Josephson

We're very hypervigilant of what do We're very hypervigilant of what do people think of me. When we are people think of me. When we are people think of me. When we are constantly doing that in all of our constantly doing that in all of our constantly doing that in all of our relationships, we lose connection with relationships, we lose connection with relationships, we lose connection with our inner world. That's trauma. our inner world. That's trauma. our inner world. That's trauma. She is a licensed psychotherapist, a She is a licensed psychotherapist, a She is a licensed psychotherapist, a certified meditation teacher, and the certified meditation teacher, and the certified meditation teacher, and the New York Times bestselling author of Are New York Times bestselling author of Are New York Times bestselling author of Are You Mad at Me? Today, she's here to You Mad at Me? Today, she's here to You Mad at Me? Today, she's here to break down how to stop focusing on what break down how to stop focusing on what break down how to stop focusing on what others think about you. What is the fawn others think about you. What is the fawn others think about you. What is the fawn response? response? response? >> When we're in [music] the fawn response, >> When we're in [music] the fawn response, >> When we're in [music] the fawn response, we appease the threat. We try to be we appease the threat. We try to be we appease the threat. We try to be liked by the threat. [music] We satisfy liked by the threat. [music] We satisfy liked by the threat. [music] We satisfy it, impress it, compliment it so that we it, impress it, compliment it so that we it, impress it, compliment it so that we can feel safe again. [music] And the can feel safe again. [music] And the can feel safe again. [music] And the other person might say, "No, I'm not mad other person might say, "No, I'm not mad other person might say, "No, I'm not mad at you. Yes, I still love you. Yes, I at you. Yes, I still love you. Yes, I at you. Yes, I still love you. Yes, I think you're beautiful." And think you're beautiful." And think you're beautiful." And temporarily, it feels like, "Okay, we're temporarily, it feels like, "Okay, we're temporarily, it feels like, "Okay, we're good then." But then it comes right good then." But then it comes right good then." But then it comes right back. back. back. >> Why do so many people ask the question, >> Why do so many people ask the question, >> Why do so many people ask the question, "Are you mad at me?" "Are you mad at me?" "Are you mad at me?" >> I think there's a lot of [music] >> I think there's a lot of [music] >> I think there's a lot of [music] reasons. I think I'm assuming a lot of people come to you I'm assuming a lot of people come to you who have dealt with being a people who have dealt with being a people who have dealt with being a people pleaser most their life. pleaser most their life. pleaser most their life. >> That was me. And I wanted to make >> That was me. And I wanted to make >> That was me. And I wanted to make everyone happy around me. I wanted to everyone happy around me. I wanted to everyone happy around me. I wanted to >> shift and change my personality to make >> shift and change my personality to make >> shift and change my personality to make sure someone liked me or wanted to hang sure someone liked me or wanted to hang sure someone liked me or wanted to hang out with me when I was a kid. out with me when I was a kid. out with me when I was a kid. >> Um I worried when my parents got mad at >> Um I worried when my parents got mad at >> Um I worried when my parents got mad at me. Uh I would lie so they wouldn't get me. Uh I would lie so they wouldn't get me. Uh I would lie so they wouldn't get mad at me. whatever I could so that mad at me. whatever I could so that mad at me. whatever I could so that people wouldn't be upset at me. And that people wouldn't be upset at me. And that people wouldn't be upset at me. And that probably built a pretty deep wound and a probably built a pretty deep wound and a probably built a pretty deep wound and a trauma response in me in my teens and my trauma response in me in my teens and my trauma response in me in my teens and my 20s until I was about 30 when I started 20s until I was about 30 when I started 20s until I was about 30 when I started my healing journey and realized, "Oh, my healing journey and realized, "Oh, my healing journey and realized, "Oh, I've been a people pleaser most my I've been a people pleaser most my I've been a people pleaser most my life." life." life." >> How many people >> How many people >> How many people >> in the world do you think are actual >> in the world do you think are actual >> in the world do you think are actual people pleasers? people pleasers? people pleasers? >> Oh, I think so many. But I think it's >> Oh, I think so many. But I think it's >> Oh, I think so many. But I think it's it's sneaky. I think the type of people it's sneaky. I think the type of people it's sneaky. I think the type of people pleasing that you're speaking about and pleasing that you're speaking about and pleasing that you're speaking about and that I think that are you mad at me as a that I think that are you mad at me as a that I think that are you mad at me as a question speaks to is this feeling question speaks to is this feeling question speaks to is this feeling >> of what do they think of me? Am I bad? >> of what do they think of me? Am I bad? >> of what do they think of me? Am I bad? Have I done something wrong? Have I done something wrong? Have I done something wrong? um it's it's such an internal experience um it's it's such an internal experience um it's it's such an internal experience whereas I think we hear of people whereas I think we hear of people whereas I think we hear of people pleasing as a more active approach as pleasing as a more active approach as pleasing as a more active approach as you know over apologizing and you know over apologizing and you know over apologizing and overextending which is all true but overextending which is all true but overextending which is all true but >> I think what's spoken about less is that >> I think what's spoken about less is that >> I think what's spoken about less is that internal experience of overthinking internal experience of overthinking internal experience of overthinking ruminating feeling like I don't know who ruminating feeling like I don't know who ruminating feeling like I don't know who I am because I'm morphing myself to be I am because I'm morphing myself to be I am because I'm morphing myself to be liked and I'm changing myself in every liked and I'm changing myself in every liked and I'm changing myself in every room that I go into so it's so common room that I go into so it's so common room that I go into so it's so common but in my practice I find that it but in my practice I find that it but in my practice I find that it manifests in such different ways for manifests in such different ways for manifests in such different ways for different people. So, it's not this different people. So, it's not this different people. So, it's not this blanket thing. It's so personal based on blanket thing. It's so personal based on blanket thing. It's so personal based on >> the home we grew up in and our nervous >> the home we grew up in and our nervous >> the home we grew up in and our nervous system. Uh but it is it's very prevalent system. Uh but it is it's very prevalent system. Uh but it is it's very prevalent because it's so rewarded. because it's so rewarded. because it's so rewarded. >> We're so applauded for, you know, this >> We're so applauded for, you know, this >> We're so applauded for, you know, this threat response. So, threat response. So, threat response. So, >> right. Why do so many people ask the >> right. Why do so many people ask the >> right. Why do so many people ask the question, are you mad at me? question, are you mad at me? question, are you mad at me? >> I think there's a lot of reasons. I >> I think there's a lot of reasons. I >> I think there's a lot of reasons. I think especially now there's a think especially now there's a think especially now there's a timeliness to it. We are being perceived timeliness to it. We are being perceived timeliness to it. We are being perceived in so many ways. We have so many ways to in so many ways. We have so many ways to in so many ways. We have so many ways to receive validation. They saw my receive validation. They saw my receive validation. They saw my Instagram story but they didn't rece Instagram story but they didn't rece Instagram story but they didn't rece respond to my text. Why is that? Did I respond to my text. Why is that? Did I respond to my text. Why is that? Did I do something wrong? Did my joke not land do something wrong? Did my joke not land do something wrong? Did my joke not land last night? Uh why did they only why did last night? Uh why did they only why did last night? Uh why did they only why did they put a period at the end of their they put a period at the end of their they put a period at the end of their sentence instead of an exclamation sentence instead of an exclamation sentence instead of an exclamation point? or why did they not like haha my point? or why did they not like haha my point? or why did they not like haha my message? So, we have so many ways online message? So, we have so many ways online message? So, we have so many ways online to receive validation that we're doing to receive validation that we're doing to receive validation that we're doing enough and that people like us and that enough and that people like us and that enough and that people like us and that I think that absence of those things can I think that absence of those things can I think that absence of those things can send us into that tail spin of send us into that tail spin of send us into that tail spin of insecurity. So, I think there's a insecurity. So, I think there's a insecurity. So, I think there's a digital element to it. Um digital element to it. Um digital element to it. Um and I also th the this um response this and I also th the this um response this and I also th the this um response this arumatomy thinking is quite a modern arumatomy thinking is quite a modern arumatomy thinking is quite a modern threat response. So threat response. So threat response. So >> we have fight or flight or freeze which >> we have fight or flight or freeze which >> we have fight or flight or freeze which are more primal threat responses but are more primal threat responses but are more primal threat responses but this one is called the fawn response. this one is called the fawn response. this one is called the fawn response. >> What is the fawn response? >> What is the fawn response? >> What is the fawn response? >> So the fawn response is when we are >> So the fawn response is when we are >> So the fawn response is when we are detecting some sort of threat. So that detecting some sort of threat. So that detecting some sort of threat. So that threat can be right in front of you. It threat can be right in front of you. It threat can be right in front of you. It can be like a lion in primal, you know, can be like a lion in primal, you know, can be like a lion in primal, you know, scenarios or it can be, you know, some scenarios or it can be, you know, some scenarios or it can be, you know, some some tangible threat right standing some tangible threat right standing some tangible threat right standing right in front of you. But it can also right in front of you. But it can also right in front of you. But it can also be perceived. It can be like, oh, my be perceived. It can be like, oh, my be perceived. It can be like, oh, my boss is being kind of cold to me today boss is being kind of cold to me today boss is being kind of cold to me today or my partner is being really quiet. Did or my partner is being really quiet. Did or my partner is being really quiet. Did I do something wrong? Or are they upset I do something wrong? Or are they upset I do something wrong? Or are they upset with me? That's a perceived threat. When with me? That's a perceived threat. When with me? That's a perceived threat. When we're in the fawn response, we appease we're in the fawn response, we appease we're in the fawn response, we appease the threat. We try to be liked by the the threat. We try to be liked by the the threat. We try to be liked by the threat. we satisfy it, impress it, threat. we satisfy it, impress it, threat. we satisfy it, impress it, compliment it, maybe even flirt with the compliment it, maybe even flirt with the compliment it, maybe even flirt with the threat so that we can feel safe again. threat so that we can feel safe again. threat so that we can feel safe again. >> Interesting. >> Interesting. >> Interesting. >> So, it's really about my safety comes >> So, it's really about my safety comes >> So, it's really about my safety comes from being liked. I need to do more in from being liked. I need to do more in from being liked. I need to do more in order to be liked. And uh it's really order to be liked. And uh it's really order to be liked. And uh it's really the only threat response that we're not the only threat response that we're not the only threat response that we're not punished for in society. We're punished for in society. We're punished for in society. We're applauded. You're such a good girl. applauded. You're such a good girl. applauded. You're such a good girl. You're so easy. You're You're so easy. You're You're so easy. You're >> um which reinforces the behavior. >> um which reinforces the behavior. >> um which reinforces the behavior. >> It reinforces it. I mean >> It reinforces it. I mean >> It reinforces it. I mean >> I mean there is something to like having >> I mean there is something to like having >> I mean there is something to like having good behavior and having good manners good behavior and having good manners good behavior and having good manners and like being respectable and like and like being respectable and like and like being respectable and like >> fitting in I guess into society in >> fitting in I guess into society in >> fitting in I guess into society in certain ways but also not over fawning I certain ways but also not over fawning I certain ways but also not over fawning I guess guess guess >> to say yes to every person's request >> to say yes to every person's request >> to say yes to every person's request >> and and not create a boundary or not >> and and not create a boundary or not >> and and not create a boundary or not >> make sure you're taking care of yourself >> make sure you're taking care of yourself >> make sure you're taking care of yourself as well. as well. as well. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> It's a balance and we're I always say >> It's a balance and we're I always say >> It's a balance and we're I always say this we're we're pro-social beings. We this we're we're pro-social beings. We this we're we're pro-social beings. We want harmony. We want connection. want harmony. We want connection. want harmony. We want connection. >> And healing the fawn response doesn't go >> And healing the fawn response doesn't go >> And healing the fawn response doesn't go away from that. It moves toward it away from that. It moves toward it away from that. It moves toward it because it allows us to have more because it allows us to have more because it allows us to have more authentic relationships and deeper authentic relationships and deeper authentic relationships and deeper connections. Because if we're people connections. Because if we're people connections. Because if we're people pleasing all the time, people don't pleasing all the time, people don't pleasing all the time, people don't really know us. They don't really know really know us. They don't really know really know us. They don't really know what we're thinking, what we're feeling, what we're thinking, what we're feeling, what we're thinking, what we're feeling, cuz we're saying like, "Yeah, no, no, cuz we're saying like, "Yeah, no, no, cuz we're saying like, "Yeah, no, no, that's totally fine. Whatever you want." that's totally fine. Whatever you want." that's totally fine. Whatever you want." We're not letting people in beneath the We're not letting people in beneath the We're not letting people in beneath the surface. And so, uh, healing this surface. And so, uh, healing this surface. And so, uh, healing this peopleleasing pattern really allows us peopleleasing pattern really allows us peopleleasing pattern really allows us to have that deeper connection and moves to have that deeper connection and moves to have that deeper connection and moves toward that. toward that. toward that. >> As I started to heal the people pleaser >> As I started to heal the people pleaser >> As I started to heal the people pleaser in me and started just saying no. in me and started just saying no. in me and started just saying no. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Or saying, "I don't want to do that." >> Or saying, "I don't want to do that." >> Or saying, "I don't want to do that." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Or, "No, I'm not going to go to your >> Or, "No, I'm not going to go to your >> Or, "No, I'm not going to go to your party." Or, "No, I'm not going to do party." Or, "No, I'm not going to do party." Or, "No, I'm not going to do this favor for you." Or whatever. for this favor for you." Or whatever. for this favor for you." Or whatever. for whatever reason. whatever reason. whatever reason. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> It didn't go well in the beginning >> It didn't go well in the beginning >> It didn't go well in the beginning because for so many years I would because for so many years I would because for so many years I would overextend to make others happy, right? overextend to make others happy, right? overextend to make others happy, right? To try to be like, "Hey, I can be To try to be like, "Hey, I can be To try to be like, "Hey, I can be reliable at any time you need me." reliable at any time you need me." reliable at any time you need me." >> And I stopped being reliable to myself >> And I stopped being reliable to myself >> And I stopped being reliable to myself >> by trying to please everyone else. >> by trying to please everyone else. >> by trying to please everyone else. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, how does saying yes to everyone else >> So, how does saying yes to everyone else >> So, how does saying yes to everyone else constantly disrespect ourselves? constantly disrespect ourselves? constantly disrespect ourselves? >> Well, when we're in this state of being, >> Well, when we're in this state of being, >> Well, when we're in this state of being, we're we're very hypervigilant. We're we're we're very hypervigilant. We're we're we're very hypervigilant. We're very hypervigilant of what do people very hypervigilant of what do people very hypervigilant of what do people think of me? Did they like me? Are they think of me? Did they like me? Are they think of me? Did they like me? Are they pleased with me? When we are pleased with me? When we are pleased with me? When we are >> constantly doing that in all of our >> constantly doing that in all of our >> constantly doing that in all of our relationships all the time, we lose relationships all the time, we lose relationships all the time, we lose connection with our inner world connection with our inner world connection with our inner world >> because in order to be so attuned to >> because in order to be so attuned to >> because in order to be so attuned to what's happening out here, we have to what's happening out here, we have to what's happening out here, we have to lose connection with our own preferences lose connection with our own preferences lose connection with our own preferences and wants and needs. And this isn't to and wants and needs. And this isn't to and wants and needs. And this isn't to say in healing this we're only focusing say in healing this we're only focusing say in healing this we're only focusing on ourselves or we are, you know, we're on ourselves or we are, you know, we're on ourselves or we are, you know, we're so selfcentered all the time and we're so selfcentered all the time and we're so selfcentered all the time and we're neglecting our relationships. No, quite neglecting our relationships. No, quite neglecting our relationships. No, quite the opposite actually. It's being in the opposite actually. It's being in the opposite actually. It's being in connection to what's happening in here connection to what's happening in here connection to what's happening in here at the same time as being in the world at the same time as being in the world at the same time as being in the world and in relationship to other people. So and in relationship to other people. So and in relationship to other people. So the cost of people pleasing with the cost of people pleasing with the cost of people pleasing with everyone all the time is that uh well a everyone all the time is that uh well a everyone all the time is that uh well a lot of things we feel like we don't know lot of things we feel like we don't know lot of things we feel like we don't know who we are. We feel resentful in our who we are. We feel resentful in our who we are. We feel resentful in our relationships. We feel like we're giving relationships. We feel like we're giving relationships. We feel like we're giving everything to everyone and no one's everything to everyone and no one's everything to everyone and no one's giving back to us. giving back to us. giving back to us. >> But it can be a little unfair because >> But it can be a little unfair because >> But it can be a little unfair because well people may not know what you need well people may not know what you need well people may not know what you need if we if you're not expressing it. Um if we if you're not expressing it. Um if we if you're not expressing it. Um but what's important to know is that but what's important to know is that but what's important to know is that this way of being for many of us is a this way of being for many of us is a this way of being for many of us is a safety mechanism. We're we're trying to safety mechanism. We're we're trying to safety mechanism. We're we're trying to feel safe. We're trying to feel loved. feel safe. We're trying to feel loved. feel safe. We're trying to feel loved. Um and sometimes we have to do that. And Um and sometimes we have to do that. And Um and sometimes we have to do that. And when we're doing it all the time, that's when we're doing it all the time, that's when we're doing it all the time, that's when it becomes totally exhausting and when it becomes totally exhausting and when it becomes totally exhausting and it's not sustainable. What's it's not sustainable. What's it's not sustainable. What's >> What is the solution to overcoming >> What is the solution to overcoming >> What is the solution to overcoming people pleasing so that you can actually people pleasing so that you can actually people pleasing so that you can actually feel safe within your body instead of feel safe within your body instead of feel safe within your body instead of trying to look outward and create false trying to look outward and create false trying to look outward and create false safety? safety? safety? >> It's a lot of things. I would say the >> It's a lot of things. I would say the >> It's a lot of things. I would say the most the core piece is increasing your most the core piece is increasing your most the core piece is increasing your tolerance for discomfort. tolerance for discomfort. tolerance for discomfort. >> Gosh, most people don't have this. I >> Gosh, most people don't have this. I >> Gosh, most people don't have this. I didn't have this for a long time. It's didn't have this for a long time. It's didn't have this for a long time. It's more the emotional. I could have more the emotional. I could have more the emotional. I could have physical discomfort. physical discomfort. physical discomfort. >> Like I could train and work out and like >> Like I could train and work out and like >> Like I could train and work out and like exhaust myself physically, exhaust myself physically, exhaust myself physically, >> but I lacked >> but I lacked >> but I lacked >> the emotional courage >> the emotional courage >> the emotional courage >> totally >> totally >> totally >> to look at someone or just say no and >> to look at someone or just say no and >> to look at someone or just say no and see them be upset with me. I just didn't see them be upset with me. I just didn't see them be upset with me. I just didn't know how to deal with that. know how to deal with that. know how to deal with that. >> It's so hard. It took years of training >> It's so hard. It took years of training >> It's so hard. It took years of training that emotional skill. that emotional skill. that emotional skill. >> It's still not enjoyable, but it's like >> It's still not enjoyable, but it's like >> It's still not enjoyable, but it's like something I can navigate with something I can navigate with something I can navigate with >> having fun. [laughter] >> having fun. [laughter] >> having fun. [laughter] >> But um >> But um >> But um >> you know, getting on the phone with >> you know, getting on the phone with >> you know, getting on the phone with someone who wanted to someone who wanted to someone who wanted to >> do a project with me and was like really >> do a project with me and was like really >> do a project with me and was like really asking me to do this thing and I was asking me to do this thing and I was asking me to do this thing and I was just like, "No, I'm I'm not going to do just like, "No, I'm I'm not going to do just like, "No, I'm I'm not going to do this." this." this." >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And >> And >> And and them saying, "Come on, I thought we and them saying, "Come on, I thought we and them saying, "Come on, I thought we were friends." And I'm like, "You were friends." And I'm like, "You were friends." And I'm like, "You haven't talked to me in 5 years. We're haven't talked to me in 5 years. We're haven't talked to me in 5 years. We're not friends. Like literally just saying not friends. Like literally just saying not friends. Like literally just saying we're not friends and that's okay. we're not friends and that's okay. we're not friends and that's okay. >> And I that means that doesn't mean I >> And I that means that doesn't mean I >> And I that means that doesn't mean I have anything against you. I want you to have anything against you. I want you to have anything against you. I want you to be successful. be successful. be successful. >> You should thrive and succeed. But we >> You should thrive and succeed. But we >> You should thrive and succeed. But we don't need to be false fake friends. don't need to be false fake friends. don't need to be false fake friends. >> Right. We don't need to fake it. >> Right. We don't need to fake it. >> Right. We don't need to fake it. >> Totally. >> Totally. >> Totally. >> We don't Just cuz we hung out 10 years >> We don't Just cuz we hung out 10 years >> We don't Just cuz we hung out 10 years ago ago ago >> doesn't mean I'm your best friend. >> doesn't mean I'm your best friend. >> doesn't mean I'm your best friend. >> Just cuz we live in the same city >> Just cuz we live in the same city >> Just cuz we live in the same city >> doesn't mean we need to [laughter] be >> doesn't mean we need to [laughter] be >> doesn't mean we need to [laughter] be friends. And and I remember when I had friends. And and I remember when I had friends. And and I remember when I had this conversation with this person, you this conversation with this person, you this conversation with this person, you know, years ago, and I was like, we're know, years ago, and I was like, we're know, years ago, and I was like, we're not friends. I don't think I'd ever said not friends. I don't think I'd ever said not friends. I don't think I'd ever said that in my life. that in my life. that in my life. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And it was like a little scary to say. I >> And it was like a little scary to say. I >> And it was like a little scary to say. I was like, it takes courage to be in was like, it takes courage to be in was like, it takes courage to be in discomfort, right? It takes courage discomfort, right? It takes courage discomfort, right? It takes courage >> to develop those emotional tools. >> to develop those emotional tools. >> to develop those emotional tools. >> It's not easy. [clears throat] >> It's not easy. [clears throat] >> It's not easy. [clears throat] >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> If you've never developed it, unless you >> If you've never developed it, unless you >> If you've never developed it, unless you had some narcissistic tendencies as a had some narcissistic tendencies as a had some narcissistic tendencies as a kid and you just said no all the time, I kid and you just said no all the time, I kid and you just said no all the time, I guess maybe that's easier for you. guess maybe that's easier for you. guess maybe that's easier for you. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But it wasn't easy for me. Well, and >> But it wasn't easy for me. Well, and >> But it wasn't easy for me. Well, and especially if you grew up in a home especially if you grew up in a home especially if you grew up in a home where you were on high alert a lot of where you were on high alert a lot of where you were on high alert a lot of the time. If you were walking on the time. If you were walking on the time. If you were walking on eggshells with your caregivers, if your eggshells with your caregivers, if your eggshells with your caregivers, if your if your caregivers were very if your caregivers were very if your caregivers were very unpredictable or critical, unpredictable or critical, unpredictable or critical, >> we actually learn it's unsafe for me to >> we actually learn it's unsafe for me to >> we actually learn it's unsafe for me to say, "No, I'm not allowed to have needs. say, "No, I'm not allowed to have needs. say, "No, I'm not allowed to have needs. I have to make sure everyone else is I have to make sure everyone else is I have to make sure everyone else is happy and it doesn't matter if I'm not happy and it doesn't matter if I'm not happy and it doesn't matter if I'm not happy." And so that's just a that's a happy." And so that's just a that's a happy." And so that's just a that's a safety mechanism that's learned so young safety mechanism that's learned so young safety mechanism that's learned so young and is then carried into adulthood. and is then carried into adulthood. and is then carried into adulthood. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Why? Because it worked. It gave us >> Why? Because it worked. It gave us >> Why? Because it worked. It gave us safety. safety. safety. >> And it's embedded in your nervous >> And it's embedded in your nervous >> And it's embedded in your nervous system. You can't just like break your system. You can't just like break your system. You can't just like break your nervous system like overnight. nervous system like overnight. nervous system like overnight. >> You have to go through an unlearning and >> You have to go through an unlearning and >> You have to go through an unlearning and a new learning healing journey, right? a new learning healing journey, right? a new learning healing journey, right? >> Such a practice. >> Such a practice. >> Such a practice. >> It's a practice. >> It's a practice. >> It's a practice. >> Such a practice. Cuz that younger >> Such a practice. Cuz that younger >> Such a practice. Cuz that younger version that learned, I need to people version that learned, I need to people version that learned, I need to people need to like me for me to be safe. need to like me for me to be safe. need to like me for me to be safe. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> That part is still in you frozen in >> That part is still in you frozen in >> That part is still in you frozen in time. That's trauma. That's what happens time. That's trauma. That's what happens time. That's trauma. That's what happens during trauma. And so when some scenario during trauma. And so when some scenario during trauma. And so when some scenario in adulthood is reminding you of those in adulthood is reminding you of those in adulthood is reminding you of those early instances, that part comes out and early instances, that part comes out and early instances, that part comes out and is like, I know what to do here. I will is like, I know what to do here. I will is like, I know what to do here. I will change how what I'm saying. I will say change how what I'm saying. I will say change how what I'm saying. I will say yes even though I want to say no. I will yes even though I want to say no. I will yes even though I want to say no. I will say no. No, no, no worries. If not, even say no. No, no, no worries. If not, even say no. No, no, no worries. If not, even though I'm really resentful. So it's though I'm really resentful. So it's though I'm really resentful. So it's very safety seeeking and understandable. very safety seeeking and understandable. very safety seeeking and understandable. [clears throat] [clears throat] [clears throat] If someone listening or watching is If someone listening or watching is If someone listening or watching is understanding they have this tendency, understanding they have this tendency, understanding they have this tendency, >> this peopleleasing or fawning tendency >> this peopleleasing or fawning tendency >> this peopleleasing or fawning tendency um where their nervous system doesn't um where their nervous system doesn't um where their nervous system doesn't have the courage to say what they truly have the courage to say what they truly have the courage to say what they truly want to say with people, whether it be want to say with people, whether it be want to say with people, whether it be people close to them or people semi-lose people close to them or people semi-lose people close to them or people semi-lose to them, to them, to them, >> how can they start a process of breaking >> how can they start a process of breaking >> how can they start a process of breaking free of that frozen in time, free of that frozen in time, free of that frozen in time, peopleleasing trauma peopleleasing trauma peopleleasing trauma >> in their nervous system >> in their nervous system >> in their nervous system >> and start developing the ability Yeah. >> and start developing the ability Yeah. >> and start developing the ability Yeah. >> To set themselves free >> To set themselves free >> To set themselves free >> because this is a frozen part like you >> because this is a frozen part like you >> because this is a frozen part like you mentioned. This is what that means is mentioned. This is what that means is mentioned. This is what that means is it's happening unconsciously. So we're it's happening unconsciously. So we're it's happening unconsciously. So we're not even aware most of the time that not even aware most of the time that not even aware most of the time that we're doing it. So that means that in we're doing it. So that means that in we're doing it. So that means that in order for us to break the pattern, we order for us to break the pattern, we order for us to break the pattern, we have to bring it from the unconscious have to bring it from the unconscious have to bring it from the unconscious into the conscious. All that means is into the conscious. All that means is into the conscious. All that means is pausing. Pause. Slow down. Notice that. pausing. Pause. Slow down. Notice that. pausing. Pause. Slow down. Notice that. Notice what you're doing. And it might Notice what you're doing. And it might Notice what you're doing. And it might mean you're still in the moment in mean you're still in the moment in mean you're still in the moment in people pleasing. You're you're still people pleasing. You're you're still people pleasing. You're you're still defaulting to your usual. But what the defaulting to your usual. But what the defaulting to your usual. But what the difference is you're pausing and you're difference is you're pausing and you're difference is you're pausing and you're becoming aware of it in a way that you becoming aware of it in a way that you becoming aware of it in a way that you weren't before. We can't heal anything weren't before. We can't heal anything weren't before. We can't heal anything until we've become aware of it. Um so until we've become aware of it. Um so until we've become aware of it. Um so having forgiveness too. This isn't a having forgiveness too. This isn't a having forgiveness too. This isn't a practice of perfection. And I think practice of perfection. And I think practice of perfection. And I think often because people pleasers are often because people pleasers are often because people pleasers are perfectionists perfectionists perfectionists >> and perfectionists are people pleasers >> and perfectionists are people pleasers >> and perfectionists are people pleasers because it's we find safety and control because it's we find safety and control because it's we find safety and control in you know uh being this like perfect in you know uh being this like perfect in you know uh being this like perfect curated versions of ourselves and that curated versions of ourselves and that curated versions of ourselves and that perfectionism can seep into our healing. perfectionism can seep into our healing. perfectionism can seep into our healing. Why haven't I fixed this yet? Why haven't I fixed this yet? Why haven't I fixed this yet? >> What's wrong with me? I've been to >> What's wrong with me? I've been to >> What's wrong with me? I've been to therapy. Why didn't this work? And therapy. Why didn't this work? And therapy. Why didn't this work? And excuse me. And it's not it's not about excuse me. And it's not it's not about excuse me. And it's not it's not about fixing. It's a daily moment to moment fixing. It's a daily moment to moment fixing. It's a daily moment to moment practice of just noticing what's practice of just noticing what's practice of just noticing what's happening, slowing down, pausing, and happening, slowing down, pausing, and happening, slowing down, pausing, and being curious about it. being curious about it. being curious about it. >> Um, it takes time. It's subtle, right? >> Um, it takes time. It's subtle, right? >> Um, it takes time. It's subtle, right? >> I I think developing a a new nervous >> I I think developing a a new nervous >> I I think developing a a new nervous system takes time of system takes time of system takes time of >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> integrating the healing practices and >> integrating the healing practices and >> integrating the healing practices and lessons on a daily basis. lessons on a daily basis. lessons on a daily basis. >> Oh, totally. Yeah. >> Oh, totally. Yeah. >> Oh, totally. Yeah. >> It is a a dayby-day integration where >> It is a a dayby-day integration where >> It is a a dayby-day integration where where you said it's like a stimulus where you said it's like a stimulus where you said it's like a stimulus happens, you have to pause. Yeah. happens, you have to pause. Yeah. happens, you have to pause. Yeah. >> And not go back into default unconscious >> And not go back into default unconscious >> And not go back into default unconscious like nervous system reaction like nervous system reaction like nervous system reaction >> and say, okay, what was I thinking about >> and say, okay, what was I thinking about >> and say, okay, what was I thinking about this morning in my prayer or meditation this morning in my prayer or meditation this morning in my prayer or meditation or my reflection about how I want to or my reflection about how I want to or my reflection about how I want to show up today? show up today? show up today? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And how can I respond differently with a >> And how can I respond differently with a >> And how can I respond differently with a little bit of courage today? little bit of courage today? little bit of courage today? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> You know what I mean? And then doing >> You know what I mean? And then doing >> You know what I mean? And then doing that day by day over time, you'll start that day by day over time, you'll start that day by day over time, you'll start to develop a new nervous system. to develop a new nervous system. to develop a new nervous system. >> Yes. And it's very subtle. And I think >> Yes. And it's very subtle. And I think >> Yes. And it's very subtle. And I think sometimes we can't even we don't even sometimes we can't even we don't even sometimes we can't even we don't even realize how much we've realize how much we've realize how much we've >> um changed until we look back from years >> um changed until we look back from years >> um changed until we look back from years before. And I think what's really before. And I think what's really before. And I think what's really empowering to know is when the when the empowering to know is when the when the empowering to know is when the when the brain is worried about the future, the brain is worried about the future, the brain is worried about the future, the past, are they mad at me? Did I do past, are they mad at me? Did I do past, are they mad at me? Did I do something wrong? The breath is always something wrong? The breath is always something wrong? The breath is always here. And so that is always our portal here. And so that is always our portal here. And so that is always our portal back into the real. uh if our bodies are back into the real. uh if our bodies are back into the real. uh if our bodies are stuck in trauma, being with our breath, stuck in trauma, being with our breath, stuck in trauma, being with our breath, we're telling our bodies, "We're not we're telling our bodies, "We're not we're telling our bodies, "We're not there. We're here right now." And that's there. We're here right now." And that's there. We're here right now." And that's very uh accessible. We can do it at any very uh accessible. We can do it at any very uh accessible. We can do it at any time. time. time. >> I heard someone once say um someone in >> I heard someone once say um someone in >> I heard someone once say um someone in the younger generation in their 20s the younger generation in their 20s the younger generation in their 20s >> say that every time they leave a room >> say that every time they leave a room >> say that every time they leave a room with people in it, they're always with people in it, they're always with people in it, they're always wondering what everyone else thinks of wondering what everyone else thinks of wondering what everyone else thinks of them. them. them. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. What is happening when we're always What is happening when we're always What is happening when we're always worried about the perception of what worried about the perception of what worried about the perception of what other people think of us after we leave other people think of us after we leave other people think of us after we leave a room? a room? a room? >> Well, I think most of the time it is >> Well, I think most of the time it is >> Well, I think most of the time it is after we leave. And I think that that's after we leave. And I think that that's after we leave. And I think that that's what's really interesting and is kind of what's really interesting and is kind of what's really interesting and is kind of the what I explore in my book is it's the what I explore in my book is it's the what I explore in my book is it's it's in the aftermath because that's it's in the aftermath because that's it's in the aftermath because that's when we're no longer in control of when we're no longer in control of when we're no longer in control of ourselves. We've had the interaction. ourselves. We've had the interaction. ourselves. We've had the interaction. We've said the joke. we've we've shown We've said the joke. we've we've shown We've said the joke. we've we've shown up in the way that we did, but once we up in the way that we did, but once we up in the way that we did, but once we leave the party or we leave the work leave the party or we leave the work leave the party or we leave the work event, we can't control how we're being event, we can't control how we're being event, we can't control how we're being perceived anymore. And that feels very perceived anymore. And that feels very perceived anymore. And that feels very scary to someone that has found safety scary to someone that has found safety scary to someone that has found safety through being liked through being liked through being liked >> because how do I know if they like me? >> because how do I know if they like me? >> because how do I know if they like me? How do I know if what they're thinking How do I know if what they're thinking How do I know if what they're thinking of me, are they talking about me to of me, are they talking about me to of me, are they talking about me to their partner right now? I don't know. their partner right now? I don't know. their partner right now? I don't know. And that's really scary. But to me, And that's really scary. But to me, And that's really scary. But to me, that's the ultimate work is surrendering that's the ultimate work is surrendering that's the ultimate work is surrendering control because we can't control how control because we can't control how control because we can't control how we're being perceived. We can control we're being perceived. We can control we're being perceived. We can control what we say, how we say it, how we treat what we say, how we say it, how we treat what we say, how we say it, how we treat people, but how we're being perceived is people, but how we're being perceived is people, but how we're being perceived is really none of our business. And that's really none of our business. And that's really none of our business. And that's hard. hard. hard. >> So, how can someone create true >> So, how can someone create true >> So, how can someone create true fulfillment and peace and harmony in fulfillment and peace and harmony in fulfillment and peace and harmony in their life their life their life >> knowing they can't control what other >> knowing they can't control what other >> knowing they can't control what other people think about them after an people think about them after an people think about them after an interaction with them? interaction with them? interaction with them? >> I think it's being okay that it won't >> I think it's being okay that it won't >> I think it's being okay that it won't always feel peaceful and harmonious. always feel peaceful and harmonious. always feel peaceful and harmonious. Okay. [laughter] Okay. [laughter] Okay. [laughter] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And that sometimes people will be mad at >> And that sometimes people will be mad at >> And that sometimes people will be mad at us. Sometimes people won't like us. us. Sometimes people won't like us. us. Sometimes people won't like us. >> And let's of course separate this from >> And let's of course separate this from >> And let's of course separate this from we're still being kind people. And when we're still being kind people. And when we're still being kind people. And when we do something wrong, we're still we do something wrong, we're still we do something wrong, we're still taking accountability for our actions. taking accountability for our actions. taking accountability for our actions. But when you are being you and you're But when you are being you and you're But when you are being you and you're being the person you're proud of and being the person you're proud of and being the person you're proud of and there's someone that misunderstands you there's someone that misunderstands you there's someone that misunderstands you or misperceives you, being misunderstood or misperceives you, being misunderstood or misperceives you, being misunderstood or misperceived is the scariest thing to or misperceived is the scariest thing to or misperceived is the scariest thing to a people pleaser. And I think it's the a people pleaser. And I think it's the a people pleaser. And I think it's the practice becomes not how can I control practice becomes not how can I control practice becomes not how can I control how I'm being perceived, but how can I how I'm being perceived, but how can I how I'm being perceived, but how can I move through the discomfort of being move through the discomfort of being move through the discomfort of being perceived? Because we're always being perceived? Because we're always being perceived? Because we're always being perceived. perceived. perceived. >> The discomfort of how we're being >> The discomfort of how we're being >> The discomfort of how we're being perceived. That's right. And it's like perceived. That's right. And it's like perceived. That's right. And it's like the unknown. Maybe they like me, maybe the unknown. Maybe they like me, maybe the unknown. Maybe they like me, maybe they don't like me. they don't like me. they don't like me. >> I can't fix it. And then that >> I can't fix it. And then that >> I can't fix it. And then that peopleleaser part comes in. Okay, next peopleleaser part comes in. Okay, next peopleleaser part comes in. Okay, next time I see them, I'm going to be super time I see them, I'm going to be super time I see them, I'm going to be super on. I'm going to be I'm going to correct on. I'm going to be I'm going to correct on. I'm going to be I'm going to correct their perception of me. It's just the their perception of me. It's just the their perception of me. It's just the people pleaser part that's trying to people pleaser part that's trying to people pleaser part that's trying to find safety in doing more and being find safety in doing more and being find safety in doing more and being liked. And the practice is really is liked. And the practice is really is liked. And the practice is really is really surrendering that really surrendering that really surrendering that >> instead of thinking over analyzing and >> instead of thinking over analyzing and >> instead of thinking over analyzing and overthinking and over criticizing what overthinking and over criticizing what overthinking and over criticizing what you did or didn't do. you did or didn't do. you did or didn't do. >> Yeah. What can someone do on a >> Yeah. What can someone do on a >> Yeah. What can someone do on a day-to-day basis to show up as their day-to-day basis to show up as their day-to-day basis to show up as their full self and not worry what everyone full self and not worry what everyone full self and not worry what everyone else thinks about them? else thinks about them? else thinks about them? >> I think it's looking in and saying, "Did >> I think it's looking in and saying, "Did >> I think it's looking in and saying, "Did that feel true to me?" that feel true to me?" that feel true to me?" >> And be and because like I was saying >> And be and because like I was saying >> And be and because like I was saying earlier, we totally lose connection with earlier, we totally lose connection with earlier, we totally lose connection with how we feel and what we think. how we feel and what we think. how we feel and what we think. >> We a lot of us don't even have >> We a lot of us don't even have >> We a lot of us don't even have >> the knowledge of what me what is me what >> the knowledge of what me what is me what >> the knowledge of what me what is me what does me even feel like? I talk about does me even feel like? I talk about does me even feel like? I talk about this in my book. I gave an example of I this in my book. I gave an example of I this in my book. I gave an example of I graduated. It's so silly, but it speaks graduated. It's so silly, but it speaks graduated. It's so silly, but it speaks to this feeling. I graduated college and to this feeling. I graduated college and to this feeling. I graduated college and was looking at towels at Bed Bath and was looking at towels at Bed Bath and was looking at towels at Bed Bath and Beyond, and I was like, I don't even Beyond, and I was like, I don't even Beyond, and I was like, I don't even know what my favorite color is. I don't know what my favorite color is. I don't know what my favorite color is. I don't Am I just a medley of everyone's Am I just a medley of everyone's Am I just a medley of everyone's personalities? Do I exist? Who am I when personalities? Do I exist? Who am I when personalities? Do I exist? Who am I when I'm not being perceived and trying to be I'm not being perceived and trying to be I'm not being perceived and trying to be liked? And liked? And liked? And >> so, I think it's it's really taking that >> so, I think it's it's really taking that >> so, I think it's it's really taking that moment to look in. And that just that moment to look in. And that just that moment to look in. And that just that process of looking in is the healing process of looking in is the healing process of looking in is the healing because we're because we're because we're >> we're breaking the pattern of always >> we're breaking the pattern of always >> we're breaking the pattern of always looking out. looking out. looking out. >> Interesting. >> Interesting. >> Interesting. >> You know, >> You know, >> You know, >> when someone is a people pleaser, >> when someone is a people pleaser, >> when someone is a people pleaser, >> is it more they lack confidence, they >> is it more they lack confidence, they >> is it more they lack confidence, they lack self-worth, lack self-worth, lack self-worth, >> or they lack the understanding of >> or they lack the understanding of >> or they lack the understanding of knowing who they truly are? knowing who they truly are? knowing who they truly are? >> I think those are all side effects of >> I think those are all side effects of >> I think those are all side effects of the deeper behavior, which is not the deeper behavior, which is not the deeper behavior, which is not feeling safe. feeling safe. feeling safe. >> Okay. And so when we are constantly >> Okay. And so when we are constantly >> Okay. And so when we are constantly finding safety in pleasing others finding safety in pleasing others finding safety in pleasing others because that's what we've learned to do. because that's what we've learned to do. because that's what we've learned to do. And by the way, most people pleasers And by the way, most people pleasers And by the way, most people pleasers were parent pleasers first. And that's were parent pleasers first. And that's were parent pleasers first. And that's often the learned behavior. And then I often the learned behavior. And then I often the learned behavior. And then I think the not knowing ourselves, having think the not knowing ourselves, having think the not knowing ourselves, having low confidence, low self-esteem is the low confidence, low self-esteem is the low confidence, low self-esteem is the result of doing that for such a long result of doing that for such a long result of doing that for such a long period of time and makes so much sense. period of time and makes so much sense. period of time and makes so much sense. >> Um as opposed to like those being the >> Um as opposed to like those being the >> Um as opposed to like those being the >> the core the core of it. Yeah. >> the core the core of it. Yeah. >> the core the core of it. Yeah. School of Greatness is brought to you in School of Greatness is brought to you in School of Greatness is brought to you in partnership with Airbnb. And one of the partnership with Airbnb. And one of the partnership with Airbnb. And one of the things that I've learned from traveling things that I've learned from traveling things that I've learned from traveling to big events is how much it changes the to big events is how much it changes the to big events is how much it changes the experience when you actually have a experience when you actually have a experience when you actually have a place that feels like home. After a full place that feels like home. After a full place that feels like home. After a full day of conversations, meetings, or being day of conversations, meetings, or being day of conversations, meetings, or being around that event energy, it's nice to around that event energy, it's nice to around that event energy, it's nice to come back somewhere that feels come back somewhere that feels come back somewhere that feels comfortable, somewhere you can reset, comfortable, somewhere you can reset, comfortable, somewhere you can reset, recharge, and feel connected to the city recharge, and feel connected to the city recharge, and feel connected to the city that you're actually in. And it made me that you're actually in. And it made me that you're actually in. And it made me think about my own upcoming travel in a think about my own upcoming travel in a think about my own upcoming travel in a different way. And when I'm away, there different way. And when I'm away, there different way. And when I'm away, there may be people coming into my city for a may be people coming into my city for a may be people coming into my city for a game, a conference, or a special event, game, a conference, or a special event, game, a conference, or a special event, looking for that same kind of looking for that same kind of looking for that same kind of experience, a comfortable place to stay, experience, a comfortable place to stay, experience, a comfortable place to stay, real local recommendations, and a better real local recommendations, and a better real local recommendations, and a better feel for the culture. And that's what I feel for the culture. And that's what I feel for the culture. And that's what I love about putting your space on Airbnb. love about putting your space on Airbnb. love about putting your space on Airbnb. You're not just opening a door. You're You're not just opening a door. You're You're not just opening a door. You're giving someone a chance to experience giving someone a chance to experience giving someone a chance to experience the area through your eyes. And you can the area through your eyes. And you can the area through your eyes. And you can earn some extra income while you're earn some extra income while you're earn some extra income while you're away. Your home might be worth more than away. Your home might be worth more than away. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at you think. Find out how much at you think. Find out how much at airbnb.com/host. airbnb.com/host. airbnb.com/host. >> I'm a new parent. >> I'm a new parent. >> I'm a new parent. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> 6 month old twins. Thank you. >> 6 month old twins. Thank you. >> 6 month old twins. Thank you. Um, how can I approach parenthood to Um, how can I approach parenthood to Um, how can I approach parenthood to raise conscious, healthy, raise conscious, healthy, raise conscious, healthy, you know, young women you know, young women you know, young women >> into becoming their greatest self, >> into becoming their greatest self, >> into becoming their greatest self, >> but also being able to be resourceful >> but also being able to be resourceful >> but also being able to be resourceful and talented and and skill driven and and talented and and skill driven and and talented and and skill driven and emotionally intelligent, emotionally intelligent, emotionally intelligent, >> but not please their father. >> but not please their father. >> but not please their father. >> Yeah. or their mother or be a people >> Yeah. or their mother or be a people >> Yeah. or their mother or be a people pleaser, but also be a respectable human pleaser, but also be a respectable human pleaser, but also be a respectable human being and behave in ways that being and behave in ways that being and behave in ways that >> um uplift society, not hurting people. >> um uplift society, not hurting people. >> um uplift society, not hurting people. >> Well, I think first of all, you know >> Well, I think first of all, you know >> Well, I think first of all, you know more about this than I do just by virtue more about this than I do just by virtue more about this than I do just by virtue of being a parent already and also by of being a parent already and also by of being a parent already and also by virtue of you asking that question, virtue of you asking that question, virtue of you asking that question, you're already you're already you're already >> being a thoughtful, loving parent >> being a thoughtful, loving parent >> being a thoughtful, loving parent because you're concerned about it because you're concerned about it because you're concerned about it >> 100%. I would say though, the most >> 100%. I would say though, the most >> 100%. I would say though, the most important skill in parenthood and in any important skill in parenthood and in any important skill in parenthood and in any relationship is repair. relationship is repair. relationship is repair. >> Being able to make a mistake and to go >> Being able to make a mistake and to go >> Being able to make a mistake and to go back to that moment and say, "Honey, I'm back to that moment and say, "Honey, I'm back to that moment and say, "Honey, I'm so sorry. I messed up. I yelled at you. so sorry. I messed up. I yelled at you. so sorry. I messed up. I yelled at you. That was on me. That wasn't your fault." That was on me. That wasn't your fault." That was on me. That wasn't your fault." And if you want to talk about it more, And if you want to talk about it more, And if you want to talk about it more, I'm here. But I just want you to know I I'm here. But I just want you to know I I'm here. But I just want you to know I love you. I'm here. What ends up love you. I'm here. What ends up love you. I'm here. What ends up happening is for I think for so many of happening is for I think for so many of happening is for I think for so many of us, for me 100% conflict was very big, us, for me 100% conflict was very big, us, for me 100% conflict was very big, very volatile and I would go to my room, very volatile and I would go to my room, very volatile and I would go to my room, process it on my own and then an hour process it on my own and then an hour process it on my own and then an hour later it was safe to go downstairs again later it was safe to go downstairs again later it was safe to go downstairs again and and and my dad would say, "So what do you want my dad would say, "So what do you want my dad would say, "So what do you want for dinner?" for dinner?" for dinner?" >> You just sweep it on the rug. >> You just sweep it on the rug. >> You just sweep it on the rug. >> Under the rug? >> Under the rug? >> Under the rug? >> No. >> No. >> No. >> But >> But >> But >> no repair? >> no repair? >> no repair? >> No. Oh, never. Never. Never. >> No. Oh, never. Never. Never. >> No. Oh, never. Never. Never. >> You apologize? >> You apologize? >> You apologize? not even in the vocabulary, but there not even in the vocabulary, but there not even in the vocabulary, but there there's an effect that happens. When there's an effect that happens. When there's an effect that happens. When that is happening, that is happening, that is happening, >> when that happens once, >> when that happens once, >> when that happens once, >> it's probably going to be fine. But when >> it's probably going to be fine. But when >> it's probably going to be fine. But when that's happening that's happening that's happening >> every week >> every week >> every week >> again and again and again and again, >> again and again and again and again, >> again and again and again and again, that is something called complex trauma, that is something called complex trauma, that is something called complex trauma, which is these micro moments of not which is these micro moments of not which is these micro moments of not feeling safe, not feeling loved day in feeling safe, not feeling loved day in feeling safe, not feeling loved day in and day out, day in and day out. What and day out, day in and day out. What and day out, day in and day out. What ends up happening for a child is we make ends up happening for a child is we make ends up happening for a child is we make sense of that by thinking alone in sense of that by thinking alone in sense of that by thinking alone in solitude in our room whatever. Okay, I solitude in our room whatever. Okay, I solitude in our room whatever. Okay, I did something bad cuz he was upset so I did something bad cuz he was upset so I did something bad cuz he was upset so I must have done something bad. And that must have done something bad. And that must have done something bad. And that evolves over time to I did something bad evolves over time to I did something bad evolves over time to I did something bad to I am bad. to I am bad. to I am bad. >> And that is that feeling of >> And that is that feeling of >> And that is that feeling of >> I I'm a bad person. Maybe I'm a bad >> I I'm a bad person. Maybe I'm a bad >> I I'm a bad person. Maybe I'm a bad person. Maybe I'm secretly a bad person. person. Maybe I'm secretly a bad person. person. Maybe I'm secretly a bad person. Maybe I'm manipulating everyone in my Maybe I'm manipulating everyone in my Maybe I'm manipulating everyone in my life into loving me. And I see this so life into loving me. And I see this so life into loving me. And I see this so much in my practice. It's such a secret much in my practice. It's such a secret much in my practice. It's such a secret feeling. feeling. feeling. >> Um, and so repair cuts right through >> Um, and so repair cuts right through >> Um, and so repair cuts right through that. We're not saying parents won't that. We're not saying parents won't that. We're not saying parents won't ever mess up or won't ever yell or ever mess up or won't ever yell or ever mess up or won't ever yell or aren't ever disregulated. Parents do not aren't ever disregulated. Parents do not aren't ever disregulated. Parents do not need to be perfect. Please don't try to need to be perfect. Please don't try to need to be perfect. Please don't try to be perfect. [laughter] be perfect. [laughter] be perfect. [laughter] But to have the But to have the But to have the courage and the courage and the courage and the humbleness, I guess, to humbleness, I guess, to humbleness, I guess, to >> say, "I made a mistake about you." Yeah. >> say, "I made a mistake about you." Yeah. >> say, "I made a mistake about you." Yeah. And I'm a person and I'm I'm so sorry. And I'm a person and I'm I'm so sorry. And I'm a person and I'm I'm so sorry. That is so healing to a child. So I That is so healing to a child. So I That is so healing to a child. So I would say I would say that would say I would say that would say I would say that >> repair repair is the key. So would you >> repair repair is the key. So would you >> repair repair is the key. So would you say there's a significant link between say there's a significant link between say there's a significant link between people who have experienced some sort of people who have experienced some sort of people who have experienced some sort of trauma and then also becoming a people trauma and then also becoming a people trauma and then also becoming a people pleaser? pleaser? pleaser? >> Yeah. Big time. Big time. specifically >> Yeah. Big time. Big time. specifically >> Yeah. Big time. Big time. specifically this this what I'm speaking to of this this this what I'm speaking to of this this this what I'm speaking to of this complex trauma where if you grew up I complex trauma where if you grew up I complex trauma where if you grew up I write about this where growing up it was write about this where growing up it was write about this where growing up it was like a home was like a held breath like like a home was like a held breath like like a home was like a held breath like I I learned my dad's foot moods by the I I learned my dad's foot moods by the I I learned my dad's foot moods by the sound of his footsteps on the on the sound of his footsteps on the on the sound of his footsteps on the on the stairs stairs stairs >> like an earthquake sometimes >> like an earthquake sometimes >> like an earthquake sometimes >> 100% like even the cadence of his >> 100% like even the cadence of his >> 100% like even the cadence of his breathing I I could know what mood he breathing I I could know what mood he breathing I I could know what mood he was in was in was in >> and h growing up in a home where you >> and h growing up in a home where you >> and h growing up in a home where you were on high high alert you or you know were on high high alert you or you know were on high high alert you or you know on edge a lot of the time. I think on edge a lot of the time. I think on edge a lot of the time. I think that's a a really common scenario where that's a a really common scenario where that's a a really common scenario where people pleasing comes through because we people pleasing comes through because we people pleasing comes through because we learn okay what can I do I can be good I learn okay what can I do I can be good I learn okay what can I do I can be good I can be perfect and that works sometimes can be perfect and that works sometimes can be perfect and that works sometimes and for a child that is very empowering and for a child that is very empowering and for a child that is very empowering is to focus on you know the one thing is to focus on you know the one thing is to focus on you know the one thing that you can do. That being said, I that you can do. That being said, I that you can do. That being said, I share a lot of different scenarios and share a lot of different scenarios and share a lot of different scenarios and examples of homes that kind of feed that examples of homes that kind of feed that examples of homes that kind of feed that need to please. And there are different need to please. And there are different need to please. And there are different ways that it can show up for people. Uh, ways that it can show up for people. Uh, ways that it can show up for people. Uh, but also it's not just home, it's also but also it's not just home, it's also but also it's not just home, it's also uh people pleasing is a really big uh people pleasing is a really big uh people pleasing is a really big adaptive mechanism to bullying as well. adaptive mechanism to bullying as well. adaptive mechanism to bullying as well. Um, it's an adaptive mechanism to living Um, it's an adaptive mechanism to living Um, it's an adaptive mechanism to living in society, whether it's your race, sex, in society, whether it's your race, sex, in society, whether it's your race, sex, sexuality, disability, neurode sexuality, disability, neurode sexuality, disability, neurode divergence. Learning to be a chameleon divergence. Learning to be a chameleon divergence. Learning to be a chameleon and morph yourself to be to feel safe. and morph yourself to be to feel safe. and morph yourself to be to feel safe. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Just is such a brilliant safety strategy >> Just is such a brilliant safety strategy >> Just is such a brilliant safety strategy and it can uh manifest in a lot of and it can uh manifest in a lot of and it can uh manifest in a lot of different ways. different ways. different ways. >> Yeah. You talk about these different >> Yeah. You talk about these different >> Yeah. You talk about these different roles that people tend to play. The roles that people tend to play. The roles that people tend to play. The peacekeeper, the performer, the peacekeeper, the performer, the peacekeeper, the performer, the caretaker, and the chameleon. Can you caretaker, and the chameleon. Can you caretaker, and the chameleon. Can you break down what each one of these looks break down what each one of these looks break down what each one of these looks like in daily life and which one were like in daily life and which one were like in daily life and which one were you more prominently? you more prominently? you more prominently? >> Yeah, I think of these not as >> Yeah, I think of these not as >> Yeah, I think of these not as personality types but more they're personality types but more they're personality types but more they're descriptive of patterns and so uh you descriptive of patterns and so uh you descriptive of patterns and so uh you know you may see yourself in all of know you may see yourself in all of know you may see yourself in all of them. I certainly do. Or you might, you them. I certainly do. Or you might, you them. I certainly do. Or you might, you know, resonate with one more than the know, resonate with one more than the know, resonate with one more than the other. Um also I just want to say other. Um also I just want to say other. Um also I just want to say there's six there's six there's six >> six. Do you want me to go? Yeah. What >> six. Do you want me to go? Yeah. What >> six. Do you want me to go? Yeah. What are the other? Yeah. What are the other? are the other? Yeah. What are the other? are the other? Yeah. What are the other? Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. >> There's a lot. >> There's a lot. >> There's a lot. >> Yeah. Go ahead. Tell me if it if becomes >> Yeah. Go ahead. Tell me if it if becomes >> Yeah. Go ahead. Tell me if it if becomes too redundant. too redundant. too redundant. >> No. Six. Yeah. Peacekeeper. >> No. Six. Yeah. Peacekeeper. >> No. Six. Yeah. Peacekeeper. >> Peacekeeper, performer, perfectionist, >> Peacekeeper, performer, perfectionist, >> Peacekeeper, performer, perfectionist, >> uh chameleon, lone wolf, and caretaker >> uh chameleon, lone wolf, and caretaker >> uh chameleon, lone wolf, and caretaker are the six. Awesome. So, the are the six. Awesome. So, the are the six. Awesome. So, the peacekeeper is the harmonizer in in the peacekeeper is the harmonizer in in the peacekeeper is the harmonizer in in the family. Um is really on high alert of family. Um is really on high alert of family. Um is really on high alert of what how others are doing. Wants what how others are doing. Wants what how others are doing. Wants everyone to be happy. And uh really the everyone to be happy. And uh really the everyone to be happy. And uh really the core belief of the peacekeeper is um I core belief of the peacekeeper is um I core belief of the peacekeeper is um I can't feel safe until everything is okay can't feel safe until everything is okay can't feel safe until everything is okay and everyone likes me. And that's true and everyone likes me. And that's true and everyone likes me. And that's true of the fawn response in general, but the of the fawn response in general, but the of the fawn response in general, but the peacekeeper is really focused on the peacekeeper is really focused on the peacekeeper is really focused on the harmony of the environment. harmony of the environment. harmony of the environment. >> Um the perfectionist is all about uh >> Um the perfectionist is all about uh >> Um the perfectionist is all about uh finding safety through being perfect for finding safety through being perfect for finding safety through being perfect for a child that's often achieving. um a child that's often achieving. um a child that's often achieving. um excelling in school, excelling in excelling in school, excelling in excelling in school, excelling in sports, whatever it may look like, sports, whatever it may look like, sports, whatever it may look like, because a child learns, oh, if I'm because a child learns, oh, if I'm because a child learns, oh, if I'm really good at those things, I get like really good at those things, I get like really good at those things, I get like a glimpse of joy from my parents or I a glimpse of joy from my parents or I a glimpse of joy from my parents or I get a they're proud of me maybe for a get a they're proud of me maybe for a get a they're proud of me maybe for a split second. split second. split second. >> It's probably also looking good, too. >> It's probably also looking good, too. >> It's probably also looking good, too. It's like you fit the right way, you It's like you fit the right way, you It's like you fit the right way, you dress the right way, you're like dress the right way, you're like dress the right way, you're like >> whatever mommy and daddy's perfect >> whatever mommy and daddy's perfect >> whatever mommy and daddy's perfect little boy or girl how you look and and little boy or girl how you look and and little boy or girl how you look and and >> very much it can it's very much image >> very much it can it's very much image >> very much it can it's very much image based in that way. based in that way. based in that way. >> Interesting. >> Interesting. >> Interesting. >> And it [clears throat] can be very >> And it [clears throat] can be very >> And it [clears throat] can be very lonely because lonely because lonely because >> uh does anyone know me who I can't let >> uh does anyone know me who I can't let >> uh does anyone know me who I can't let people see me when I'm not perfect and people see me when I'm not perfect and people see me when I'm not perfect and that's a very lonely experience. Um, and that's a very lonely experience. Um, and that's a very lonely experience. Um, and then we have the performer. Uh, this one then we have the performer. Uh, this one then we have the performer. Uh, this one is a little bit specific and that finds is a little bit specific and that finds is a little bit specific and that finds a lot of safety in just being on and a lot of safety in just being on and a lot of safety in just being on and maybe it's being funny. Maybe it's just, maybe it's being funny. Maybe it's just, maybe it's being funny. Maybe it's just, you know, cracking jokes to keep you know, cracking jokes to keep you know, cracking jokes to keep everyone happy. everyone happy. everyone happy. >> But I think of I while I was writing >> But I think of I while I was writing >> But I think of I while I was writing this, I thought of just comedians this, I thought of just comedians this, I thought of just comedians growing up in really dysfunctional homes growing up in really dysfunctional homes growing up in really dysfunctional homes and they found safety by and they found safety by and they found safety by >> humor, >> humor, >> humor, >> keeping humor, keeping everyone happy in >> keeping humor, keeping everyone happy in >> keeping humor, keeping everyone happy in that way. also very lonely because that way. also very lonely because that way. also very lonely because feeling like you need to always be on feeling like you need to always be on feeling like you need to always be on and uh putting on a show it's tiring. and uh putting on a show it's tiring. and uh putting on a show it's tiring. >> We're not supposed to do that all the >> We're not supposed to do that all the >> We're not supposed to do that all the time. time. time. >> Um and then the caretaker uh finds value >> Um and then the caretaker uh finds value >> Um and then the caretaker uh finds value in being helpful and maybe it's because in being helpful and maybe it's because in being helpful and maybe it's because you were the oldest sibling. Maybe you you were the oldest sibling. Maybe you you were the oldest sibling. Maybe you had parents who were immigrants and had parents who were immigrants and had parents who were immigrants and adjusting to a new culture or maybe adjusting to a new culture or maybe adjusting to a new culture or maybe maybe you had a sibling or a caregiver maybe you had a sibling or a caregiver maybe you had a sibling or a caregiver who had a disability. You had to step who had a disability. You had to step who had a disability. You had to step up. you had to take on a parental role up. you had to take on a parental role up. you had to take on a parental role in some way, but that can also just be in some way, but that can also just be in some way, but that can also just be because your parents just for whatever because your parents just for whatever because your parents just for whatever reason weren't able to fulfill those reason weren't able to fulfill those reason weren't able to fulfill those needs. So, you stepped up to fill that needs. So, you stepped up to fill that needs. So, you stepped up to fill that role. role. role. >> Maybe now as a adult you feel attracted >> Maybe now as a adult you feel attracted >> Maybe now as a adult you feel attracted to to to >> uh partners that make you feel like >> uh partners that make you feel like >> uh partners that make you feel like you're the parent. You because it's a you're the parent. You because it's a you're the parent. You because it's a familiar role to you. Interesting. familiar role to you. Interesting. familiar role to you. Interesting. >> So, you you tend to mother or parent or >> So, you you tend to mother or parent or >> So, you you tend to mother or parent or father your your romantic partners. Very father your your romantic partners. Very father your your romantic partners. Very common. common. common. >> Um and then chameleon. uh loses >> Um and then chameleon. uh loses >> Um and then chameleon. uh loses themselves what with whoever they're themselves what with whoever they're themselves what with whoever they're with. They they morph themselves to to with. They they morph themselves to to with. They they morph themselves to to match the people in the room to be liked match the people in the room to be liked match the people in the room to be liked by whoever they're with. Maybe they feel by whoever they're with. Maybe they feel by whoever they're with. Maybe they feel this sense of am I fake because I just this sense of am I fake because I just this sense of am I fake because I just tend to tend to tend to >> adjust to to be liked by whoever I'm >> adjust to to be liked by whoever I'm >> adjust to to be liked by whoever I'm with. Do I know who I am? And then the with. Do I know who I am? And then the with. Do I know who I am? And then the lone wolf, which I kind of think of as lone wolf, which I kind of think of as lone wolf, which I kind of think of as its own little category, its own little category, its own little category, which is I'm not allowed to have needs, which is I'm not allowed to have needs, which is I'm not allowed to have needs, so I will just disappear. I'm not gonna so I will just disappear. I'm not gonna so I will just disappear. I'm not gonna ask for help. Um, I'm not going to show ask for help. Um, I'm not going to show ask for help. Um, I'm not going to show that I need help because my needs don't that I need help because my needs don't that I need help because my needs don't matter. M matter. M matter. M >> and you may not think of this one as >> and you may not think of this one as >> and you may not think of this one as people pleasing because it's it's people pleasing because it's it's people pleasing because it's it's quieter but it really is people pleasing quieter but it really is people pleasing quieter but it really is people pleasing because it's others needs matter but because it's others needs matter but because it's others needs matter but when it I have needs I need to I need to when it I have needs I need to I need to when it I have needs I need to I need to disappear. So disappear. So disappear. So >> okay >> okay >> okay >> wow >> wow >> wow >> those are the archetypes >> those are the archetypes >> those are the archetypes >> those are the archetypes the things that >> those are the archetypes the things that >> those are the archetypes the things that we tend tend to play out in our lives. we tend tend to play out in our lives. we tend tend to play out in our lives. Yes. And worth noting when those are the Yes. And worth noting when those are the Yes. And worth noting when those are the roles that we've had early on in our roles that we've had early on in our roles that we've had early on in our life, that's often the role life, that's often the role life, that's often the role unconsciously that we're going to unconsciously that we're going to unconsciously that we're going to continue playing as adults. Not because continue playing as adults. Not because continue playing as adults. Not because we want it, but because what feels we want it, but because what feels we want it, but because what feels familiar will feel safe familiar will feel safe familiar will feel safe >> and what feels unfamiliar will feel >> and what feels unfamiliar will feel >> and what feels unfamiliar will feel dangerous. So unconsciously, we play out dangerous. So unconsciously, we play out dangerous. So unconsciously, we play out these roles because we're like, I've these roles because we're like, I've these roles because we're like, I've done this before. I know how to do this. done this before. I know how to do this. done this before. I know how to do this. I'm good at this. And so when we try to I'm good at this. And so when we try to I'm good at this. And so when we try to break it, it feels quite scary simply break it, it feels quite scary simply break it, it feels quite scary simply because we don't know how to. because we don't know how to. because we don't know how to. >> It's unfamiliar. It's unfamiliar. So >> It's unfamiliar. It's unfamiliar. So >> It's unfamiliar. It's unfamiliar. So there's a big difference between being there's a big difference between being there's a big difference between being kind and peopleleasing or fawning. kind and peopleleasing or fawning. kind and peopleleasing or fawning. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> How can someone tell in real time if >> How can someone tell in real time if >> How can someone tell in real time if they're genuinely being generous or they're genuinely being generous or they're genuinely being generous or quietly betraying themselves? quietly betraying themselves? quietly betraying themselves? >> That's such a good question. I think >> That's such a good question. I think >> That's such a good question. I think asking, "Do I mean this is a really good asking, "Do I mean this is a really good asking, "Do I mean this is a really good starting point. Do I do I mean what I'm starting point. Do I do I mean what I'm starting point. Do I do I mean what I'm about to say or do? And an emotion to about to say or do? And an emotion to about to say or do? And an emotion to look out for is resentment. When we are look out for is resentment. When we are look out for is resentment. When we are feeling resentful in a relationship, uh feeling resentful in a relationship, uh feeling resentful in a relationship, uh it's usually a sign that there's a need it's usually a sign that there's a need it's usually a sign that there's a need that isn't being met or expressed. And that isn't being met or expressed. And that isn't being met or expressed. And so when we feel resentful, we can pay so when we feel resentful, we can pay so when we feel resentful, we can pay attention to it. And let's be clear, attention to it. And let's be clear, attention to it. And let's be clear, sometimes sometimes sometimes that's going to be inevitable. Like that's going to be inevitable. Like that's going to be inevitable. Like people pleasing with your boss, people pleasing with your boss, people pleasing with your boss, sometimes you got to do it. You got to sometimes you got to do it. You got to sometimes you got to do it. You got to get a paycheck. you have to, you know, get a paycheck. you have to, you know, get a paycheck. you have to, you know, that's that's genuine safety seeking, that's that's genuine safety seeking, that's that's genuine safety seeking, but people pleasing with your best but people pleasing with your best but people pleasing with your best friend who would totally understand, friend who would totally understand, friend who would totally understand, maybe not as necessary. So, it's maybe not as necessary. So, it's maybe not as necessary. So, it's important to discern important to discern important to discern >> context. >> context. >> context. >> Context matters. >> Context matters. >> Context matters. >> Um, it's it's not so black or white. But >> Um, it's it's not so black or white. But >> Um, it's it's not so black or white. But I think regardless if we are people I think regardless if we are people I think regardless if we are people pleasing with your boss or your best pleasing with your boss or your best pleasing with your boss or your best friend, we can still pause and look friend, we can still pause and look friend, we can still pause and look inward. What's happening? What need of inward. What's happening? What need of inward. What's happening? What need of mine isn't being met? What if I could mine isn't being met? What if I could mine isn't being met? What if I could say or do anything, what would I say or say or do anything, what would I say or say or do anything, what would I say or do? Okay, now given the reality, what do? Okay, now given the reality, what do? Okay, now given the reality, what can I say or do? Um, I would start can I say or do? Um, I would start can I say or do? Um, I would start there. there. there. >> Yeah, there's certain people that for >> Yeah, there's certain people that for >> Yeah, there's certain people that for whatever reason, I don't know if it's whatever reason, I don't know if it's whatever reason, I don't know if it's culturally, culturally, culturally, >> tend to say, I'm sorry, after >> tend to say, I'm sorry, after >> tend to say, I'm sorry, after everything. everything. everything. >> Like >> Like >> Like >> if they're just walking through the >> if they're just walking through the >> if they're just walking through the store, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Like they store, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Like they store, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Like they didn't say something the right way. I'm didn't say something the right way. I'm didn't say something the right way. I'm sorry for for not saying this or I'm sorry for for not saying this or I'm sorry for for not saying this or I'm sorry I'm late. It's just like a sorry I'm late. It's just like a sorry I'm late. It's just like a constant I'm sorry. constant I'm sorry. constant I'm sorry. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Is that a similar symptom I guess of >> Is that a similar symptom I guess of >> Is that a similar symptom I guess of people pleasing or where does that come people pleasing or where does that come people pleasing or where does that come from? from? from? >> Yeah, absolutely. Apologizing for >> Yeah, absolutely. Apologizing for >> Yeah, absolutely. Apologizing for Well, there's there's a self-lame Well, there's there's a self-lame Well, there's there's a self-lame element to that of me existing is an element to that of me existing is an element to that of me existing is an inconvenience and I'm I'm so sorry for inconvenience and I'm I'm so sorry for inconvenience and I'm I'm so sorry for that. It's definitely a tendency of the that. It's definitely a tendency of the that. It's definitely a tendency of the fawn response and that I need to show fawn response and that I need to show fawn response and that I need to show you that I'm small. Of course, there's a you that I'm small. Of course, there's a you that I'm small. Of course, there's a difference between, you know, genuine difference between, you know, genuine difference between, you know, genuine apologizing and taking accountability, apologizing and taking accountability, apologizing and taking accountability, but just I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm but just I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm but just I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. When we're doing that all the so sorry. When we're doing that all the so sorry. When we're doing that all the time, it actually asks a lot of the time, it actually asks a lot of the time, it actually asks a lot of the other person because the other person other person because the other person other person because the other person then needs to say you're fine. It's then needs to say you're fine. It's then needs to say you're fine. It's okay. They need to make soothe your okay. They need to make soothe your okay. They need to make soothe your discomfort of feeling guilty. discomfort of feeling guilty. discomfort of feeling guilty. >> Interesting. >> Interesting. >> Interesting. >> Yeah. And so that's why I would say >> Yeah. And so that's why I would say >> Yeah. And so that's why I would say people pleasing isn't really pleasing people pleasing isn't really pleasing people pleasing isn't really pleasing many people. It's it's tiring for you. many people. It's it's tiring for you. many people. It's it's tiring for you. It's tiring for the other person because It's tiring for the other person because It's tiring for the other person because it requires the other person to give a it requires the other person to give a it requires the other person to give a lot of reassurance. lot of reassurance. lot of reassurance. And there's a difference between And there's a difference between And there's a difference between validation and reassurance which I can validation and reassurance which I can validation and reassurance which I can certainly get into. But certainly get into. But certainly get into. But >> what is the difference between >> what is the difference between >> what is the difference between validation and reassurance? Well, validation and reassurance? Well, validation and reassurance? Well, reassurance seeking as a behavior is reassurance seeking as a behavior is reassurance seeking as a behavior is very common for people pleasers. Uh, it very common for people pleasers. Uh, it very common for people pleasers. Uh, it can sound like, "Are you mad at me? Do can sound like, "Are you mad at me? Do can sound like, "Are you mad at me? Do you still love me? Do you think I look you still love me? Do you think I look you still love me? Do you think I look pretty in this? Are we okay?" It's it's pretty in this? Are we okay?" It's it's pretty in this? Are we okay?" It's it's a lot of uh yes or no questions. And the a lot of uh yes or no questions. And the a lot of uh yes or no questions. And the other person might say, "No, I'm not mad other person might say, "No, I'm not mad other person might say, "No, I'm not mad at you. Yes, I still love you. Yes, I at you. Yes, I still love you. Yes, I at you. Yes, I still love you. Yes, I think you're beautiful." And think you're beautiful." And think you're beautiful." And temporarily, it feels like, "Okay, we're temporarily, it feels like, "Okay, we're temporarily, it feels like, "Okay, we're good then." good then." good then." >> But then it comes right back >> But then it comes right back >> But then it comes right back >> every day or every week. It's like, why? >> every day or every week. It's like, why? >> every day or every week. It's like, why? >> It comes right back. Why do people need >> It comes right back. Why do people need >> It comes right back. Why do people need that reassurance constantly? that reassurance constantly? that reassurance constantly? >> Because we're not getting to the root >> Because we're not getting to the root >> Because we're not getting to the root emotion beneath it, the anxiety, the emotion beneath it, the anxiety, the emotion beneath it, the anxiety, the insecurity, the feeling of deficiency. insecurity, the feeling of deficiency. insecurity, the feeling of deficiency. Versus seeking validation might say to Versus seeking validation might say to Versus seeking validation might say to the other person, well, we're first the other person, well, we're first the other person, well, we're first we're we're slowing down. We're saying, we're we're slowing down. We're saying, we're we're slowing down. We're saying, I'm feeling insecure right now. Hm, what I'm feeling insecure right now. Hm, what I'm feeling insecure right now. Hm, what triggered this? Okay, let me think about triggered this? Okay, let me think about triggered this? Okay, let me think about this. Like, what what's happening here? this. Like, what what's happening here? this. Like, what what's happening here? We're we're looking inward first, but We're we're looking inward first, but We're we're looking inward first, but we're having a conversation. we're having a conversation. we're having a conversation. So, that might sound like, "Hey, I've So, that might sound like, "Hey, I've So, that might sound like, "Hey, I've been feeling kind of distant from you in been feeling kind of distant from you in been feeling kind of distant from you in our relationship, and I just wanted to our relationship, and I just wanted to our relationship, and I just wanted to check in about it. I wanted to see if check in about it. I wanted to see if check in about it. I wanted to see if you were feeling it, too." And it's it's you were feeling it, too." And it's it's you were feeling it, too." And it's it's a conversation. You're not asking the a conversation. You're not asking the a conversation. You're not asking the other person to diminish the anxiety for other person to diminish the anxiety for other person to diminish the anxiety for you. You're letting both people share you. You're letting both people share you. You're letting both people share their emotions. Of course, the other their emotions. Of course, the other their emotions. Of course, the other person might say might give some person might say might give some person might say might give some reassurance. Oh my gosh, I had No, I'm reassurance. Oh my gosh, I had No, I'm reassurance. Oh my gosh, I had No, I'm not mad at you at all. I'm I'm so sorry not mad at you at all. I'm I'm so sorry not mad at you at all. I'm I'm so sorry you thought that, but it it's a slowing you thought that, but it it's a slowing you thought that, but it it's a slowing down with the emotion. Um, but it's down with the emotion. Um, but it's down with the emotion. Um, but it's really what we were talking about, being really what we were talking about, being really what we were talking about, being able to tolerate discomfort, being able able to tolerate discomfort, being able able to tolerate discomfort, being able to, to, to, >> you know, be with our own discomfort >> you know, be with our own discomfort >> you know, be with our own discomfort when that anxiety gets triggered and let when that anxiety gets triggered and let when that anxiety gets triggered and let it pass a little bit before acting on it pass a little bit before acting on it pass a little bit before acting on it. it. it. >> How does someone create their own >> How does someone create their own >> How does someone create their own self-reassurance and own self validation self-reassurance and own self validation self-reassurance and own self validation without seeking it from their partner, without seeking it from their partner, without seeking it from their partner, friends, or family constantly? friends, or family constantly? friends, or family constantly? >> Yeah. And it's a balance because it's >> Yeah. And it's a balance because it's >> Yeah. And it's a balance because it's okay to need people at the same time. okay to need people at the same time. okay to need people at the same time. It's okay to want to hear nice things It's okay to want to hear nice things It's okay to want to hear nice things from [laughter] the people we love. from [laughter] the people we love. from [laughter] the people we love. >> Uh but I think it's the the steps that >> Uh but I think it's the the steps that >> Uh but I think it's the the steps that we're taking. I think it's it's first we're taking. I think it's it's first we're taking. I think it's it's first pausing. Put the phone down. Don't pausing. Put the phone down. Don't pausing. Put the phone down. Don't analyze the texts or wonder, oh my gosh, analyze the texts or wonder, oh my gosh, analyze the texts or wonder, oh my gosh, where did I go wrong here? where did I go wrong here? where did I go wrong here? >> Allow yourself to be in some quiet. >> Allow yourself to be in some quiet. >> Allow yourself to be in some quiet. Identify what does feel soothing to you. Identify what does feel soothing to you. Identify what does feel soothing to you. Is it deep breaths? Is it taking a walk? Is it deep breaths? Is it taking a walk? Is it deep breaths? Is it taking a walk? Is it taking a bath? Is it cooking Is it taking a bath? Is it cooking Is it taking a bath? Is it cooking yourself a nice meal? Identifying what yourself a nice meal? Identifying what yourself a nice meal? Identifying what does feel regulating for your nervous does feel regulating for your nervous does feel regulating for your nervous system? system? system? >> Um, and reflecting what what's triggered >> Um, and reflecting what what's triggered >> Um, and reflecting what what's triggered this? What's happening here? Is this a this? What's happening here? Is this a this? What's happening here? Is this a pattern? Is this a one-off thing? pattern? Is this a one-off thing? pattern? Is this a one-off thing? Spending some time with it. Maybe it's Spending some time with it. Maybe it's Spending some time with it. Maybe it's journaling out what happened or maybe journaling out what happened or maybe journaling out what happened or maybe it's recording a voice memo as if you it's recording a voice memo as if you it's recording a voice memo as if you were talking to someone about it. Um and were talking to someone about it. Um and were talking to someone about it. Um and then yeah of course we can have a then yeah of course we can have a then yeah of course we can have a conversation with the person but I think conversation with the person but I think conversation with the person but I think it requires some reflection first. Yeah. it requires some reflection first. Yeah. it requires some reflection first. Yeah. >> What would you say is the most powerful >> What would you say is the most powerful >> What would you say is the most powerful emotion that most of us are ignoring? emotion that most of us are ignoring? emotion that most of us are ignoring? >> Shame. >> Shame. >> Shame. >> Um shame >> Um shame >> Um shame and distinguishing that from guilt and distinguishing that from guilt and distinguishing that from guilt as emotions I think is so important for as emotions I think is so important for as emotions I think is so important for people pleasers. Do you think most people pleasers. Do you think most people pleasers. Do you think most people are ignoring a shame that they people are ignoring a shame that they people are ignoring a shame that they feel? [snorts] feel? [snorts] feel? [snorts] >> I think people pleasers are ignoring >> I think people pleasers are ignoring >> I think people pleasers are ignoring resentment and anger and I think people resentment and anger and I think people resentment and anger and I think people pleasers feel a lot of shame. pleasers feel a lot of shame. pleasers feel a lot of shame. >> Ah >> Ah >> Ah >> um where do you want me to go? You tell >> um where do you want me to go? You tell >> um where do you want me to go? You tell me. me. me. >> Why do why do people pleasers feel so >> Why do why do people pleasers feel so >> Why do why do people pleasers feel so much shame? much shame? much shame? We feel a lot of shame because there's We feel a lot of shame because there's We feel a lot of shame because there's an inherent belief that everything we do an inherent belief that everything we do an inherent belief that everything we do is wrong and not enough because remember is wrong and not enough because remember is wrong and not enough because remember the fawn response finds safety in doing the fawn response finds safety in doing the fawn response finds safety in doing more. more. more. >> And so if we were to believe that we are >> And so if we were to believe that we are >> And so if we were to believe that we are doing more I mean sorry if we were to doing more I mean sorry if we were to doing more I mean sorry if we were to believe we are doing enough that would believe we are doing enough that would believe we are doing enough that would kind of feel a little scary to this part kind of feel a little scary to this part kind of feel a little scary to this part of ourselves that has learned I need to of ourselves that has learned I need to of ourselves that has learned I need to always try more and try harder. Uh it's always try more and try harder. Uh it's always try more and try harder. Uh it's it's challenging that core belief a it's challenging that core belief a it's challenging that core belief a little bit. So shame is really important little bit. So shame is really important little bit. So shame is really important because uh well self we've learned to because uh well self we've learned to because uh well self we've learned to use self-lame as a coping mechanism use self-lame as a coping mechanism use self-lame as a coping mechanism >> and >> and >> and we need to always we need to always we need to always make ourselves smaller. We need to make ourselves smaller. We need to make ourselves smaller. We need to always make ourselves disappear. We have always make ourselves disappear. We have always make ourselves disappear. We have this like I said that that sort of this like I said that that sort of this like I said that that sort of chronic feeling of I'm bad or I'm doing chronic feeling of I'm bad or I'm doing chronic feeling of I'm bad or I'm doing something wrong. People don't like me. something wrong. People don't like me. something wrong. People don't like me. There's just this constant critical There's just this constant critical There's just this constant critical voice that's happening for people voice that's happening for people voice that's happening for people pleasers. M pleasers. M pleasers. M >> um and I think recognizing that that >> um and I think recognizing that that >> um and I think recognizing that that voice is there, but it's not always voice is there, but it's not always voice is there, but it's not always true. It's rarely true. Our inner voice true. It's rarely true. Our inner voice true. It's rarely true. Our inner voice is a tape recorder. It's a tape recorder is a tape recorder. It's a tape recorder is a tape recorder. It's a tape recorder of all the things we've heard growing up of all the things we've heard growing up of all the things we've heard growing up from society. from society. from society. >> And so to have awareness of that voice >> And so to have awareness of that voice >> And so to have awareness of that voice without without without immediately believing it is the most immediately believing it is the most immediately believing it is the most powerful tool. powerful tool. powerful tool. >> Yeah. What is one sentence someone can >> Yeah. What is one sentence someone can >> Yeah. What is one sentence someone can say say say >> to set a boundary without feeling >> to set a boundary without feeling >> to set a boundary without feeling guilty? Oh, guilty? Oh, guilty? Oh, >> whether it be an email, whether it be in >> whether it be an email, whether it be in >> whether it be an email, whether it be in person, whether it be like, how can you person, whether it be like, how can you person, whether it be like, how can you say something to set a boundary? say something to set a boundary? say something to set a boundary? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> To not feel resentful by pleasing and >> To not feel resentful by pleasing and >> To not feel resentful by pleasing and giving in. giving in. giving in. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But also, >> But also, >> But also, >> without feeling guilty. >> without feeling guilty. >> without feeling guilty. >> Well, I'm going to give you an annoying >> Well, I'm going to give you an annoying >> Well, I'm going to give you an annoying answer, which is that you might feel answer, which is that you might feel answer, which is that you might feel guilty guilty guilty >> simply because it's you're doing >> simply because it's you're doing >> simply because it's you're doing something new. And so if people pleasing something new. And so if people pleasing something new. And so if people pleasing has been our baseline, saying no will has been our baseline, saying no will has been our baseline, saying no will feel aggressive just because we've never feel aggressive just because we've never feel aggressive just because we've never said no before. said no before. said no before. >> You feel like you're a bad person. >> You feel like you're a bad person. >> You feel like you're a bad person. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> When you say no, you're a bad person. >> When you say no, you're a bad person. >> When you say no, you're a bad person. >> Let's define what is guilt. And then I >> Let's define what is guilt. And then I >> Let's define what is guilt. And then I promise I will give a direct question promise I will give a direct question promise I will give a direct question answer. Guilt says I've done something answer. Guilt says I've done something answer. Guilt says I've done something wrong. wrong. wrong. >> I've done something that is out of >> I've done something that is out of >> I've done something that is out of alignment with my values and my morals. alignment with my values and my morals. alignment with my values and my morals. And so I think knowing what guilt even And so I think knowing what guilt even And so I think knowing what guilt even is is so important because when you feel is is so important because when you feel is is so important because when you feel guilty, let's say, hm, let's say you guilty, let's say, hm, let's say you guilty, let's say, hm, let's say you were out with friends and you don't feel were out with friends and you don't feel were out with friends and you don't feel like drinking that night and so you were like drinking that night and so you were like drinking that night and so you were like, "No, I'm not going to drink." And like, "No, I'm not going to drink." And like, "No, I'm not going to drink." And then your friends like, "Come on, have then your friends like, "Come on, have then your friends like, "Come on, have some fun. You're so lame." So then you some fun. You're so lame." So then you some fun. You're so lame." So then you feel guilty for saying, "I'm not feel guilty for saying, "I'm not feel guilty for saying, "I'm not drinking." Well, pause. Are you doing drinking." Well, pause. Are you doing drinking." Well, pause. Are you doing something bad? Are you doing something something bad? Are you doing something something bad? Are you doing something morally wrong in this moment? Absolutely morally wrong in this moment? Absolutely morally wrong in this moment? Absolutely not. You are just choosing to make your not. You are just choosing to make your not. You are just choosing to make your own decision and your friends disagree, own decision and your friends disagree, own decision and your friends disagree, but but but >> you're not doing something morally >> you're not doing something morally >> you're not doing something morally wrong. wrong. wrong. >> What ends up happening with people >> What ends up happening with people >> What ends up happening with people pleasers, we take other people's pleasers, we take other people's pleasers, we take other people's discomfort and we absorb that as guilt. discomfort and we absorb that as guilt. discomfort and we absorb that as guilt. But it's not guilt. It's just But it's not guilt. It's just But it's not guilt. It's just hypervigilance to other people's hypervigilance to other people's hypervigilance to other people's dissatisfaction. dissatisfaction. dissatisfaction. Um, and so I think being able to Um, and so I think being able to Um, and so I think being able to actually discern when when is it when am actually discern when when is it when am actually discern when when is it when am I doing something wrong and when is it I doing something wrong and when is it I doing something wrong and when is it actually just a fleeting moment of actually just a fleeting moment of actually just a fleeting moment of discomfort that I need to sit with? discomfort that I need to sit with? discomfort that I need to sit with? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know, [snorts] >> You know, [snorts] >> You know, [snorts] [sighs] [sighs] [sighs] >> takes practice. It takes a lot of >> takes practice. It takes a lot of >> takes practice. It takes a lot of practice. practice. practice. >> It does. Should I answer your question? >> It does. Should I answer your question? >> It does. Should I answer your question? >> Yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead. >> Yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead. >> Yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead. >> I guess I can do that. >> I guess I can do that. >> I guess I can do that. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I think it's super important to start. >> I think it's super important to start. >> I think it's super important to start. You mentioned earlier that when you You mentioned earlier that when you You mentioned earlier that when you first started saying no to people, it first started saying no to people, it first started saying no to people, it didn't go well. I thought that was didn't go well. I thought that was didn't go well. I thought that was really interesting or that like people really interesting or that like people really interesting or that like people because people were so used to you being because people were so used to you being because people were so used to you being the yes man. the yes man. the yes man. >> It's so important to start with people >> It's so important to start with people >> It's so important to start with people that feel safe. that feel safe. that feel safe. >> It's so important with anything trauma >> It's so important with anything trauma >> It's so important with anything trauma related and in trauma healing. We have related and in trauma healing. We have related and in trauma healing. We have to start small and safe. Otherwise, to start small and safe. Otherwise, to start small and safe. Otherwise, we're going to shock our nervous system. we're going to shock our nervous system. we're going to shock our nervous system. For example, if you were to set a For example, if you were to set a For example, if you were to set a boundary with your like boundary with your like boundary with your like >> your parents or something, >> your parents or something, >> your parents or something, >> your parent that you have a very rocky >> your parent that you have a very rocky >> your parent that you have a very rocky relationship with, they're not going to relationship with, they're not going to relationship with, they're not going to have a good reaction. have a good reaction. have a good reaction. >> You may not be in their lives anymore. >> You may not be in their lives anymore. >> You may not be in their lives anymore. You know what I mean? It's like You know what I mean? It's like You know what I mean? It's like >> it might be destructive. And so what >> it might be destructive. And so what >> it might be destructive. And so what would happen is you would set set that would happen is you would set set that would happen is you would set set that boundary. They would have a huge boundary. They would have a huge boundary. They would have a huge reaction and then your nervous system reaction and then your nervous system reaction and then your nervous system would be like, "This is why I people would be like, "This is why I people would be like, "This is why I people please. What are we doing? Go back to please. What are we doing? Go back to please. What are we doing? Go back to what I know." Yeah. what I know." Yeah. what I know." Yeah. >> So, it's really important to identify >> So, it's really important to identify >> So, it's really important to identify relationships that feel safe like your relationships that feel safe like your relationships that feel safe like your best friend or your loving partner or if best friend or your loving partner or if best friend or your loving partner or if you have a close sibling relationship you have a close sibling relationship you have a close sibling relationship and it's even can even be a shared and it's even can even be a shared and it's even can even be a shared practice. You can let them in on what practice. You can let them in on what practice. You can let them in on what you're working on. you're working on. you're working on. >> I like that. Yeah. >> I like that. Yeah. >> I like that. Yeah. >> I've been working on something. I'm >> I've been working on something. I'm >> I've been working on something. I'm really trying to be more honest in my really trying to be more honest in my really trying to be more honest in my relationships because I feel like I kind relationships because I feel like I kind relationships because I feel like I kind of I'm not letting people in. I'm not of I'm not letting people in. I'm not of I'm not letting people in. I'm not show I'm not being authentic and I end show I'm not being authentic and I end show I'm not being authentic and I end up saying yes when I don't mean it and up saying yes when I don't mean it and up saying yes when I don't mean it and then I feel upset with myself and then I feel upset with myself and then I feel upset with myself and >> I just want you to know that that's >> I just want you to know that that's >> I just want you to know that that's something I'm working on. Um and then something I'm working on. Um and then something I'm working on. Um and then >> with the right person they're going to >> with the right person they're going to >> with the right person they're going to be really proud of you for saying no or be really proud of you for saying no or be really proud of you for saying no or for expressing a need for expressing a need for expressing a need >> the right person. Yeah. >> the right person. Yeah. >> the right person. Yeah. >> With the right person. But it's really >> With the right person. But it's really >> With the right person. But it's really important to start with the right important to start with the right important to start with the right person. And I think the way context is person. And I think the way context is person. And I think the way context is everything instead of just saying to everything instead of just saying to everything instead of just saying to your best friend who maybe you've had your best friend who maybe you've had your best friend who maybe you've had some resentments because you say yes too some resentments because you say yes too some resentments because you say yes too much or whatever much or whatever much or whatever >> and just saying you know what I'm going >> and just saying you know what I'm going >> and just saying you know what I'm going to start saying no to you when you want to start saying no to you when you want to start saying no to you when you want me to do this. You can't start with that me to do this. You can't start with that me to do this. You can't start with that context. It's got to be like context. It's got to be like context. It's got to be like >> you know I've really been discovering >> you know I've really been discovering >> you know I've really been discovering that I've been feeling this kind of that I've been feeling this kind of that I've been feeling this kind of frustration when I do this in life with frustration when I do this in life with frustration when I do this in life with people. people. people. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And I want to be more in tune with >> And I want to be more in tune with >> And I want to be more in tune with myself in all my relationships myself in all my relationships myself in all my relationships >> and I love to practice this together. >> and I love to practice this together. >> and I love to practice this together. Like I don't want you to say yes to me Like I don't want you to say yes to me Like I don't want you to say yes to me on something you don't want to do. Also, on something you don't want to do. Also, on something you don't want to do. Also, like I want you to feel like like I want you to feel like like I want you to feel like >> you can say no if you don't want to go >> you can say no if you don't want to go >> you can say no if you don't want to go out to the bar and drink with me. out to the bar and drink with me. out to the bar and drink with me. >> It goes both ways, >> It goes both ways, >> It goes both ways, >> you know? It's like Yeah. >> you know? It's like Yeah. >> you know? It's like Yeah. >> Is this something you'd be open to >> Is this something you'd be open to >> Is this something you'd be open to practicing with me? practicing with me? practicing with me? >> Yes. Yes. >> Yes. Yes. >> Yes. Yes. >> So that I can improve in my life and >> So that I can improve in my life and >> So that I can improve in my life and this and that. this and that. this and that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's the context of it. >> It's the context of it. >> It's the context of it. >> It's definitely context. And I don't >> It's definitely context. And I don't >> It's definitely context. And I don't know about you, but in relationships know about you, but in relationships know about you, but in relationships that I can be really honest that I can be really honest that I can be really honest >> and the other person can be honest with >> and the other person can be honest with >> and the other person can be honest with me, I feel the closest to those friends me, I feel the closest to those friends me, I feel the closest to those friends because I'm never wondering are they because I'm never wondering are they because I'm never wondering are they saying something they don't mean. saying something they don't mean. saying something they don't mean. >> I'm always trusting that if they are >> I'm always trusting that if they are >> I'm always trusting that if they are upset, they'll tell me. upset, they'll tell me. upset, they'll tell me. >> And that's a big practice for people >> And that's a big practice for people >> And that's a big practice for people pleasers as well is to not mind readad pleasers as well is to not mind readad pleasers as well is to not mind readad so much. Oh man, so much. Oh man, so much. Oh man, >> because we often are like, well, maybe >> because we often are like, well, maybe >> because we often are like, well, maybe they meant this by this and they had they meant this by this and they had they meant this by this and they had kind of they didn't laugh that hard in kind of they didn't laugh that hard in kind of they didn't laugh that hard in my jokes, so maybe and and so we end up my jokes, so maybe and and so we end up my jokes, so maybe and and so we end up creating these scenarios that don't creating these scenarios that don't creating these scenarios that don't exist. exist. exist. >> Of course, if we've actively harmed >> Of course, if we've actively harmed >> Of course, if we've actively harmed someone, we we should be the one to someone, we we should be the one to someone, we we should be the one to initiate that interaction, but initiate that interaction, but initiate that interaction, but >> allow them and trust that they will come >> allow them and trust that they will come >> allow them and trust that they will come to you if there's something to be spoken to you if there's something to be spoken to you if there's something to be spoken about. about. about. >> That's a hard one. >> That's a hard one. >> That's a hard one. >> That's a hard one. 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Same your home internet delivered today. Same day delivery for most internet eligible day delivery for most internet eligible day delivery for most internet eligible customers. See if it's an option during customers. See if it's an option during customers. See if it's an option during checkout. Fastest according to UCLA checkout. Fastest according to UCLA checkout. Fastest according to UCLA speed test intelligence data second half speed test intelligence data second half speed test intelligence data second half 2025. All rights reserved. 2025. All rights reserved. 2025. All rights reserved. >> In your New York time bestselling book, >> In your New York time bestselling book, >> In your New York time bestselling book, Are You Mad at Me? You say on page 159 Are You Mad at Me? You say on page 159 Are You Mad at Me? You say on page 159 that pain travels through families until that pain travels through families until that pain travels through families until someone is ready to face it. someone is ready to face it. someone is ready to face it. >> How does trauma pass through our DNA >> How does trauma pass through our DNA >> How does trauma pass through our DNA >> through our families? Is this DNA or is >> through our families? Is this DNA or is >> through our families? Is this DNA or is this more just learned behavior in the this more just learned behavior in the this more just learned behavior in the environment? environment? environment? >> It's actually both. It's actually both. >> It's actually both. It's actually both. >> It's actually both. It's actually both. It's actually passed down uh in our DNA It's actually passed down uh in our DNA It's actually passed down uh in our DNA through these genetic markers and through these genetic markers and through these genetic markers and through these genetic codes. And of through these genetic codes. And of through these genetic codes. And of course it's also uh how we are raised is course it's also uh how we are raised is course it's also uh how we are raised is going to be unconsciously how we will going to be unconsciously how we will going to be unconsciously how we will raise raise raise our children if we decide to have them our children if we decide to have them our children if we decide to have them >> until someone becomes conscious of the >> until someone becomes conscious of the >> until someone becomes conscious of the patterns that have been happening and patterns that have been happening and patterns that have been happening and goes through the emotional labor of goes through the emotional labor of goes through the emotional labor of breaking that pattern. So breaking that pattern. So breaking that pattern. So >> one person has to say >> one person has to say >> one person has to say >> I'm going to break generational trauma. >> I'm going to break generational trauma. >> I'm going to break generational trauma. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, >> I'm going to be the one to go through >> I'm going to be the one to go through >> I'm going to be the one to go through hell hell hell >> for however long it takes >> for however long it takes >> for however long it takes >> to regulate my nervous system. >> to regulate my nervous system. >> to regulate my nervous system. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> To heal, to have conscious >> To heal, to have conscious >> To heal, to have conscious conversations, to have the courage to conversations, to have the courage to conversations, to have the courage to speak up and use my voice and to pass speak up and use my voice and to pass speak up and use my voice and to pass down a new language. down a new language. down a new language. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And new environment to the people in my >> And new environment to the people in my >> And new environment to the people in my life. And it takes a lot of work. life. And it takes a lot of work. life. And it takes a lot of work. >> And it won't be perfect. And I think >> And it won't be perfect. And I think >> And it won't be perfect. And I think that is that is that is >> what I see a lot as well is this >> what I see a lot as well is this >> what I see a lot as well is this pressure. Yes. to Oh, well, if I'm a if pressure. Yes. to Oh, well, if I'm a if pressure. Yes. to Oh, well, if I'm a if I'm a cycle breaker, I need to be I'm a cycle breaker, I need to be I'm a cycle breaker, I need to be perfect perfect perfect >> at breaking them. >> at breaking them. >> at breaking them. >> It's going to be messy. >> It's going to be messy. >> It's going to be messy. >> No. And messy. >> No. And messy. >> No. And messy. >> That's That's a really That's a high >> That's That's a really That's a high >> That's That's a really That's a high standard to hold yourself to. And it's standard to hold yourself to. And it's standard to hold yourself to. And it's not human. We're going to mess up. not human. We're going to mess up. not human. We're going to mess up. >> I'm sure my kids future kids will go to >> I'm sure my kids future kids will go to >> I'm sure my kids future kids will go to therapy for something that I did. I'm therapy for something that I did. I'm therapy for something that I did. I'm sure. [laughter] But I always sure. [laughter] But I always sure. [laughter] But I always >> You're a therapist. >> You're a therapist. >> You're a therapist. >> Yeah, of course. And I'm a person. And >> Yeah, of course. And I'm a person. And >> Yeah, of course. And I'm a person. And I'm sure that what I always like to say I'm sure that what I always like to say I'm sure that what I always like to say is I think a parent's weakness becomes a is I think a parent's weakness becomes a is I think a parent's weakness becomes a child's strength. Like there are things child's strength. Like there are things child's strength. Like there are things about my parents that I'm actively about my parents that I'm actively about my parents that I'm actively wanting to break. I want to be wanting to break. I want to be wanting to break. I want to be >> practice being a non-reactive parent. I >> practice being a non-reactive parent. I >> practice being a non-reactive parent. I want to practice taking accountability want to practice taking accountability want to practice taking accountability and owning up to my mistakes. And I'm and owning up to my mistakes. And I'm and owning up to my mistakes. And I'm sure there will be areas where I miss sure there will be areas where I miss sure there will be areas where I miss the mark and my future children will, the mark and my future children will, the mark and my future children will, you know, break that pattern. So we you know, break that pattern. So we you know, break that pattern. So we can't be perfect. Being perfect is can't be perfect. Being perfect is can't be perfect. Being perfect is damaging. Does that mean you're never damaging. Does that mean you're never damaging. Does that mean you're never being upset? You're never showing being upset? You're never showing being upset? You're never showing sadness? That's really damaging as well. sadness? That's really damaging as well. sadness? That's really damaging as well. So So So >> striving to be the perfect person is not >> striving to be the perfect person is not >> striving to be the perfect person is not is not the goal. is not the goal. is not the goal. >> Just doing our best. Exactly. We're just >> Just doing our best. Exactly. We're just >> Just doing our best. Exactly. We're just doing our best. doing our best. doing our best. >> What's the one thing you've learned >> What's the one thing you've learned >> What's the one thing you've learned through all the research in therapy and through all the research in therapy and through all the research in therapy and your studies and practices that you your studies and practices that you your studies and practices that you realize that you still need work on as a realize that you still need work on as a realize that you still need work on as a person? person? person? >> Oh, so much. A lot. I would say my inner >> Oh, so much. A lot. I would say my inner >> Oh, so much. A lot. I would say my inner critic could use some softening still. critic could use some softening still. critic could use some softening still. 100%. I I still I have such I've always 100%. I I still I have such I've always 100%. I I still I have such I've always had very very critical thoughts as I've had very very critical thoughts as I've had very very critical thoughts as I've said innervoice is a tape recorder you said innervoice is a tape recorder you said innervoice is a tape recorder you know I picked up on that but know I picked up on that but know I picked up on that but I think the practice that I'm working on I think the practice that I'm working on I think the practice that I'm working on and continue to work on is it's not and continue to work on is it's not and continue to work on is it's not about um erasing that voice but changing about um erasing that voice but changing about um erasing that voice but changing my relationship to it. That voice is my relationship to it. That voice is my relationship to it. That voice is still there because that little girl still there because that little girl still there because that little girl inside of me is still there. inside of me is still there. inside of me is still there. >> And so if I were to say what's wrong >> And so if I were to say what's wrong >> And so if I were to say what's wrong with me? Why don't I have a softer inner with me? Why don't I have a softer inner with me? Why don't I have a softer inner dialogue? I'm really saying, "What's dialogue? I'm really saying, "What's dialogue? I'm really saying, "What's wrong with this little girl? She wrong with this little girl? She wrong with this little girl? She shouldn't be here." And so to have shouldn't be here." And so to have shouldn't be here." And so to have acceptance that this voice is here, but acceptance that this voice is here, but acceptance that this voice is here, but to just not believe it so much. But I to just not believe it so much. But I to just not believe it so much. But I can get very very hard on myself. I can can get very very hard on myself. I can can get very very hard on myself. I can hold myself to a very perfectionistic hold myself to a very perfectionistic hold myself to a very perfectionistic standard that's I know consciously is standard that's I know consciously is standard that's I know consciously is unfair. Um, but just to give some space unfair. Um, but just to give some space unfair. Um, but just to give some space between that voice and myself and between that voice and myself and between that voice and myself and recognize that voice is just trying to recognize that voice is just trying to recognize that voice is just trying to protect me. Because if I'm perfect, protect me. Because if I'm perfect, protect me. Because if I'm perfect, maybe I won't be criticized or judged or maybe I won't be criticized or judged or maybe I won't be criticized or judged or misunderstood. It's such a misunderstood. It's such a misunderstood. It's such a self-protective voice. self-protective voice. self-protective voice. >> So creating just some distance between >> So creating just some distance between >> So creating just some distance between that voice, there you are again. Hello. that voice, there you are again. Hello. that voice, there you are again. Hello. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> When the wounded girl in you um is >> When the wounded girl in you um is >> When the wounded girl in you um is feeling criticized or overwhelmed, feeling criticized or overwhelmed, feeling criticized or overwhelmed, >> what is she saying to you? >> what is she saying to you? >> what is she saying to you? >> I think just like stop taking life so >> I think just like stop taking life so >> I think just like stop taking life so seriously. seriously. seriously. It's not that deep. Uh yeah, I think It's not that deep. Uh yeah, I think It's not that deep. Uh yeah, I think zoom out a little bit. Uh anytime I then zoom out a little bit. Uh anytime I then zoom out a little bit. Uh anytime I then like I'll meditate for 10 minutes or like I'll meditate for 10 minutes or like I'll meditate for 10 minutes or I'll go for a walk in nature, I'm like I'll go for a walk in nature, I'm like I'll go for a walk in nature, I'm like what was I worried about again? It's what was I worried about again? It's what was I worried about again? It's just just just >> thoughts are very all consuming when >> thoughts are very all consuming when >> thoughts are very all consuming when they're loud and they're very they're loud and they're very they're loud and they're very believable. And that's why the practice believable. And that's why the practice believable. And that's why the practice of awareness is everything because we of awareness is everything because we of awareness is everything because we we're going to believe the fearful we're going to believe the fearful we're going to believe the fearful thoughts way more than the loving thoughts way more than the loving thoughts way more than the loving thoughts in our mind. thoughts in our mind. thoughts in our mind. >> Why is that? >> Why is that? >> Why is that? >> Because we're hardwired for safety. And >> Because we're hardwired for safety. And >> Because we're hardwired for safety. And so we're going to uh pay more attention so we're going to uh pay more attention so we're going to uh pay more attention to those thoughts because we think to those thoughts because we think to those thoughts because we think there's a threat of some sort. And so, there's a threat of some sort. And so, there's a threat of some sort. And so, uh, the loving thoughts feel very hard uh, the loving thoughts feel very hard uh, the loving thoughts feel very hard to believe, especially if our history is to believe, especially if our history is to believe, especially if our history is rooted in, you know, if we have a trauma rooted in, you know, if we have a trauma rooted in, you know, if we have a trauma history. So, it's just it's just human. history. So, it's just it's just human. history. So, it's just it's just human. Just makes sense. Just makes sense. Just makes sense. >> How can we learn to >> How can we learn to >> How can we learn to have more loving thoughts and believe have more loving thoughts and believe have more loving thoughts and believe them versus critical thoughts and them versus critical thoughts and them versus critical thoughts and believe those? believe those? believe those? >> There's two types of thoughts in my >> There's two types of thoughts in my >> There's two types of thoughts in my mind. There's like that unconscious mind. There's like that unconscious mind. There's like that unconscious voice, voice, voice, that subconscious voice that just that subconscious voice that just that subconscious voice that just chatters. It's that background noise chatters. It's that background noise chatters. It's that background noise that we hear all day. And those are that we hear all day. And those are that we hear all day. And those are often our critical thoughts. It's just often our critical thoughts. It's just often our critical thoughts. It's just >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> just there. >> just there. >> just there. >> Versus the there's a more conscious >> Versus the there's a more conscious >> Versus the there's a more conscious voice, a more intuitive voice. Do you voice, a more intuitive voice. Do you voice, a more intuitive voice. Do you know what I mean? know what I mean? know what I mean? >> Sure. >> Sure. >> Sure. >> Of when we're like actually consciously >> Of when we're like actually consciously >> Of when we're like actually consciously speaking to ourselves. If I'm like, speaking to ourselves. If I'm like, speaking to ourselves. If I'm like, okay, I'm hearing this voice and I'm okay, I'm hearing this voice and I'm okay, I'm hearing this voice and I'm saying to it, I'm safe. It's okay. It's saying to it, I'm safe. It's okay. It's saying to it, I'm safe. It's okay. It's everything's okay right now. I think everything's okay right now. I think everything's okay right now. I think those are two different voices. Um, those are two different voices. Um, those are two different voices. Um, so I I really use a lot in my clinical so I I really use a lot in my clinical so I I really use a lot in my clinical work, um, internal family systems as an work, um, internal family systems as an work, um, internal family systems as an approach of viewing this approach of viewing this approach of viewing this >> Dick Schwarz, right? >> Dick Schwarz, right? >> Dick Schwarz, right? >> Uh-huh. viewing this voice as a part. >> Uh-huh. viewing this voice as a part. >> Uh-huh. viewing this voice as a part. And I talk about this in my book of this And I talk about this in my book of this And I talk about this in my book of this people pleaser is a part of you that has people pleaser is a part of you that has people pleaser is a part of you that has found safety through pleasing and being found safety through pleasing and being found safety through pleasing and being perfect and good. We're not trying to perfect and good. We're not trying to perfect and good. We're not trying to get rid of this voice and this part. get rid of this voice and this part. get rid of this voice and this part. We're trying to actually create a We're trying to actually create a We're trying to actually create a relationship to it so it knows you don't relationship to it so it knows you don't relationship to it so it knows you don't need to work so hard anymore. need to work so hard anymore. need to work so hard anymore. >> Yeah. Yeah, we had Frank Anderson on >> Yeah. Yeah, we had Frank Anderson on >> Yeah. Yeah, we had Frank Anderson on here and he's, you know, kind of in here and he's, you know, kind of in here and he's, you know, kind of in partnership with Dick Schwarz or worked partnership with Dick Schwarz or worked partnership with Dick Schwarz or worked with him for a long time about the with him for a long time about the with him for a long time about the internal family systems. And for those internal family systems. And for those internal family systems. And for those who aren't aware of what this is, what who aren't aware of what this is, what who aren't aware of what this is, what is internal family systems is internal family systems is internal family systems >> and how does it make us feel more safe >> and how does it make us feel more safe >> and how does it make us feel more safe understanding that there's all these understanding that there's all these understanding that there's all these parts of us? parts of us? parts of us? >> Yes. On a broad level, it's that we are >> Yes. On a broad level, it's that we are >> Yes. On a broad level, it's that we are made up of a bunch of different parts made up of a bunch of different parts made up of a bunch of different parts that all play very important roles and that all play very important roles and that all play very important roles and functions that are all trying to keep us functions that are all trying to keep us functions that are all trying to keep us safe. These are like psychological safe. These are like psychological safe. These are like psychological parts, emotional parts. parts, emotional parts. parts, emotional parts. >> That's a good question. It's it's >> That's a good question. It's it's >> That's a good question. It's it's complex. It's both. It's all of it. Um, complex. It's both. It's all of it. Um, complex. It's both. It's all of it. Um, it's emotional, it's psychological, it's it's emotional, it's psychological, it's it's emotional, it's psychological, it's biological as well, but I think it's biological as well, but I think it's biological as well, but I think it's it's that these parts play a role in the it's that these parts play a role in the it's that these parts play a role in the system that makes up you, and they're system that makes up you, and they're system that makes up you, and they're all working hard to keep you safe. Um, all working hard to keep you safe. Um, all working hard to keep you safe. Um, but what ends up happening I think is but what ends up happening I think is but what ends up happening I think is when specifically through how I view the when specifically through how I view the when specifically through how I view the people pleaser part in are you mad at me people pleaser part in are you mad at me people pleaser part in are you mad at me is when we are stuck in this old way of is when we are stuck in this old way of is when we are stuck in this old way of being. This people pleaser part being. This people pleaser part being. This people pleaser part overcompensates and works so hard and is overcompensates and works so hard and is overcompensates and works so hard and is so exhausted because it thinks it needs so exhausted because it thinks it needs so exhausted because it thinks it needs to. And so the healing is as us true our to. And so the healing is as us true our to. And so the healing is as us true our true selves, the wise, grounded, true selves, the wise, grounded, true selves, the wise, grounded, regulated versions of ourselves to regulated versions of ourselves to regulated versions of ourselves to create a relationship with that part. create a relationship with that part. create a relationship with that part. Thank you so much for working so hard. Thank you so much for working so hard. Thank you so much for working so hard. >> I actually don't need you right now. You >> I actually don't need you right now. You >> I actually don't need you right now. You can sleep. I'll need you again, but I can sleep. I'll need you again, but I can sleep. I'll need you again, but I don't need you in this moment. We're not don't need you in this moment. We're not don't need you in this moment. We're not erasing it, erasing it, erasing it, >> but we're creating a relationship, too. >> but we're creating a relationship, too. >> but we're creating a relationship, too. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Speaking of relationships, you've had uh >> Speaking of relationships, you've had uh >> Speaking of relationships, you've had uh coming up, it'll be eight years sober coming up, it'll be eight years sober coming up, it'll be eight years sober for you. you were talking about. for you. you were talking about. for you. you were talking about. >> What is your relationship like with >> What is your relationship like with >> What is your relationship like with yourself now 8 years sober versus what yourself now 8 years sober versus what yourself now 8 years sober versus what it was when you were drinking alcohol as it was when you were drinking alcohol as it was when you were drinking alcohol as a coping mechanism? a coping mechanism? a coping mechanism? >> Totally. It's funny. I always say I >> Totally. It's funny. I always say I >> Totally. It's funny. I always say I don't feel like worthy of using the word don't feel like worthy of using the word don't feel like worthy of using the word sober because I didn't consider myself sober because I didn't consider myself sober because I didn't consider myself to get to a point of addiction. So, I to get to a point of addiction. So, I to get to a point of addiction. So, I almost feel like I don't deserve that almost feel like I don't deserve that almost feel like I don't deserve that [snorts] word or whatever or because I [snorts] word or whatever or because I [snorts] word or whatever or because I don't have a distinct date. I have just don't have a distinct date. I have just don't have a distinct date. I have just like a time frame that I stopped like a time frame that I stopped like a time frame that I stopped drinking. I'm like, do I am I worthy? Do drinking. I'm like, do I am I worthy? Do drinking. I'm like, do I am I worthy? Do I am I allowed to use that word? But I am I allowed to use that word? But I am I allowed to use that word? But yes, I I by definition, I guess I am. yes, I I by definition, I guess I am. yes, I I by definition, I guess I am. >> Um, >> Um, >> Um, >> so you weren't you weren't considering >> so you weren't you weren't considering >> so you weren't you weren't considering yourself an alcoholic before? yourself an alcoholic before? yourself an alcoholic before? >> Well, I think I just had I hadn't been >> Well, I think I just had I hadn't been >> Well, I think I just had I hadn't been drinking long enough, I think, to Sure. drinking long enough, I think, to Sure. drinking long enough, I think, to Sure. >> But when I would drink, it would be very >> But when I would drink, it would be very >> But when I would drink, it would be very black or white, like we were talking black or white, like we were talking black or white, like we were talking about of I was either not drinking or about of I was either not drinking or about of I was either not drinking or Yeah. or I was going all out even when I Yeah. or I was going all out even when I Yeah. or I was going all out even when I didn't intend to. And it's worth noting didn't intend to. And it's worth noting didn't intend to. And it's worth noting I grew up my dad was very much an addict I grew up my dad was very much an addict I grew up my dad was very much an addict with not just alcohol and my whole like with not just alcohol and my whole like with not just alcohol and my whole like I have very early memories of that. So I have very early memories of that. So I have very early memories of that. So that was my image of substances even that was my image of substances even that was my image of substances even though I consciously knew I don't want though I consciously knew I don't want though I consciously knew I don't want to repeat that. I don't want to do that. to repeat that. I don't want to do that. to repeat that. I don't want to do that. >> I I have this black or white tendency in >> I I have this black or white tendency in >> I I have this black or white tendency in me. And so a lot has changed in that I'm me. And so a lot has changed in that I'm me. And so a lot has changed in that I'm just first of all so used to not just first of all so used to not just first of all so used to not drinking at this point where I'm like drinking at this point where I'm like drinking at this point where I'm like why would I why would I want to go back why would I why would I want to go back why would I why would I want to go back to it? to it? to it? >> But I think for me drinking was uh I was >> But I think for me drinking was uh I was >> But I think for me drinking was uh I was so in control during the day. Um I so in control during the day. Um I so in control during the day. Um I struggled with eating. I struggled with struggled with eating. I struggled with struggled with eating. I struggled with overex exercising. overex exercising. overex exercising. Uh I was very perfectionistic Uh I was very perfectionistic Uh I was very perfectionistic regimented. that was just my way of regimented. that was just my way of regimented. that was just my way of coping with a lot of the unprocessed coping with a lot of the unprocessed coping with a lot of the unprocessed memories that I hadn't yet faced. Um, memories that I hadn't yet faced. Um, memories that I hadn't yet faced. Um, and drinking was kind of finally I can and drinking was kind of finally I can and drinking was kind of finally I can like release and let go of control. like release and let go of control. like release and let go of control. >> Um, but it was really triggering for me. >> Um, but it was really triggering for me. >> Um, but it was really triggering for me. Like a lot would come out, a lot of Like a lot would come out, a lot of Like a lot would come out, a lot of wounds would come out. All my fears, all wounds would come out. All my fears, all wounds would come out. All my fears, all my anxieties would just kind of pour out my anxieties would just kind of pour out my anxieties would just kind of pour out of me when I would drink. of me when I would drink. of me when I would drink. >> Wow. Um, again because I wasn't I was >> Wow. Um, again because I wasn't I was >> Wow. Um, again because I wasn't I was going hard, you know, like it was it going hard, you know, like it was it going hard, you know, like it was it wasn't just like a tasteful glass of wasn't just like a tasteful glass of wasn't just like a tasteful glass of wine with dinner. It was college, too, wine with dinner. It was college, too, wine with dinner. It was college, too, which I think is also complicated. It's which I think is also complicated. It's which I think is also complicated. It's like this context where it's fine. It's like this context where it's fine. It's like this context where it's fine. It's fine to be doing that fine to be doing that fine to be doing that >> society. It's not even fine. It's >> society. It's not even fine. It's >> society. It's not even fine. It's celebrated. celebrated. celebrated. >> Totally. >> Totally. >> Totally. >> Let's go out and party and do this or >> Let's go out and party and do this or >> Let's go out and party and do this or whatever, right? whatever, right? whatever, right? >> And you kind of like get ripped on if >> And you kind of like get ripped on if >> And you kind of like get ripped on if you're not doing that. If you're like if you're not doing that. If you're like if you're not doing that. If you're like if you're in that world. So, um I but I got you're in that world. So, um I but I got you're in that world. So, um I but I got a really bad concussion in college. a really bad concussion in college. a really bad concussion in college. Really? Really? Really? >> Yeah. Um and that I really feel I feel >> Yeah. Um and that I really feel I feel >> Yeah. Um and that I really feel I feel that was like a pivotal point in my that was like a pivotal point in my that was like a pivotal point in my spiritual spiritual spiritual process. I think that was meant to process. I think that was meant to process. I think that was meant to happen. Um because it forced me to stop happen. Um because it forced me to stop happen. Um because it forced me to stop everything stopped. I couldn't drink. I everything stopped. I couldn't drink. I everything stopped. I couldn't drink. I had to sit there in silence in darkness had to sit there in silence in darkness had to sit there in silence in darkness and it was a it was a pretty long and it was a it was a pretty long and it was a it was a pretty long recovery for me. recovery for me. recovery for me. >> Really? >> Really? >> Really? >> Yeah. Um and so that was really the >> Yeah. Um and so that was really the >> Yeah. Um and so that was really the first point where I stopped drinking in first point where I stopped drinking in first point where I stopped drinking in college and then after that the drinking college and then after that the drinking college and then after that the drinking just tapered. I never really went back just tapered. I never really went back just tapered. I never really went back to heavy drinking after that. Um and to heavy drinking after that. Um and to heavy drinking after that. Um and then yeah, eventually I was just like I then yeah, eventually I was just like I then yeah, eventually I was just like I actually just don't even want this at actually just don't even want this at actually just don't even want this at all. So it just stopped. How does all. So it just stopped. How does all. So it just stopped. How does someone learn how to not use drugs and someone learn how to not use drugs and someone learn how to not use drugs and alcohol as a coping mechanism to release alcohol as a coping mechanism to release alcohol as a coping mechanism to release and relax and let loose and reveal and relax and let loose and reveal and relax and let loose and reveal themselves themselves themselves >> but actually be loose and free without >> but actually be loose and free without >> but actually be loose and free without drugs and alcohol or substances. drugs and alcohol or substances. drugs and alcohol or substances. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> To be able to express themselves >> To be able to express themselves >> To be able to express themselves >> throughout the day. >> throughout the day. >> throughout the day. >> It's funny. I think whether it's drugs, >> It's funny. I think whether it's drugs, >> It's funny. I think whether it's drugs, alcohol, shopping, any sort of alcohol, shopping, any sort of alcohol, shopping, any sort of behavior where you feel you lose control behavior where you feel you lose control behavior where you feel you lose control of yourself. Binge eating there there's of yourself. Binge eating there there's of yourself. Binge eating there there's so many and again like with each of so many and again like with each of so many and again like with each of these it gets clinically I would view these it gets clinically I would view these it gets clinically I would view each of them differently and it it would each of them differently and it it would each of them differently and it it would get more complicated but get more complicated but get more complicated but >> there's probably a root wound under >> there's probably a root wound under >> there's probably a root wound under that's under underneath each one of that's under underneath each one of that's under underneath each one of these tendencies. Correct. these tendencies. Correct. these tendencies. Correct. >> Right. in that we're finding safety >> Right. in that we're finding safety >> Right. in that we're finding safety through through through this this this controlbased behavior where if if I'm if controlbased behavior where if if I'm if controlbased behavior where if if I'm if I'm honing in on this behavior, I don't I'm honing in on this behavior, I don't I'm honing in on this behavior, I don't need to feel the discomfort. I don't need to feel the discomfort. I don't need to feel the discomfort. I don't need to feel the anxiety. I don't need need to feel the anxiety. I don't need need to feel the anxiety. I don't need to face what is bubbling beneath the to face what is bubbling beneath the to face what is bubbling beneath the surface. Um, what ends up happening is surface. Um, what ends up happening is surface. Um, what ends up happening is we have this uncomfortable motion rise we have this uncomfortable motion rise we have this uncomfortable motion rise up and so we immediately grab a drink or up and so we immediately grab a drink or up and so we immediately grab a drink or we scroll or we shop or we overeat, we scroll or we shop or we overeat, we scroll or we shop or we overeat, whatever the the coping mechanism may whatever the the coping mechanism may whatever the the coping mechanism may be, be, be, >> porn, whatever it might be. Yeah, >> porn, whatever it might be. Yeah, >> porn, whatever it might be. Yeah, >> absolutely. Sex addiction, it's it it's >> absolutely. Sex addiction, it's it it's >> absolutely. Sex addiction, it's it it's all to me and I think of it quite all to me and I think of it quite all to me and I think of it quite similarly similarly but different of similarly similarly but different of similarly similarly but different of course. Yes. Um, and so I think the it's course. Yes. Um, and so I think the it's course. Yes. Um, and so I think the it's a layered clinical approach, but I would a layered clinical approach, but I would a layered clinical approach, but I would think of it as what during the day, how think of it as what during the day, how think of it as what during the day, how can you can you can you slowly increase that tolerance for slowly increase that tolerance for slowly increase that tolerance for feeling that discomfort throughout your feeling that discomfort throughout your feeling that discomfort throughout your day and feeling safe throughout the day day and feeling safe throughout the day day and feeling safe throughout the day so that the impulse control becomes less so that the impulse control becomes less so that the impulse control becomes less you have more control over your you have more control over your you have more control over your impulses? How do you start to feel safe impulses? How do you start to feel safe impulses? How do you start to feel safe when you feel uncomfortable when you feel uncomfortable when you feel uncomfortable >> with that pain inside or that >> with that pain inside or that >> with that pain inside or that >> Well, safety is slow and I don't I think >> Well, safety is slow and I don't I think >> Well, safety is slow and I don't I think we often think of well if I'm present we often think of well if I'm present we often think of well if I'm present I'll that means I'll feel good all the I'll that means I'll feel good all the I'll that means I'll feel good all the time. That's not true at all. I think time. That's not true at all. I think time. That's not true at all. I think presence often means presence often means presence often means >> feeling kind of >> feeling kind of >> feeling kind of >> And am I allowed to say that on your >> And am I allowed to say that on your >> And am I allowed to say that on your show? Yeah. Super bad word. I know it's show? Yeah. Super bad word. I know it's show? Yeah. Super bad word. I know it's really rebellious. Um, I think it's really rebellious. Um, I think it's really rebellious. Um, I think it's being with being with being with >> Are you mad at me for saying that? >> Are you mad at me for saying that? >> Are you mad at me for saying that? >> Yeah, very. [laughter] >> Yeah, very. [laughter] >> Yeah, very. [laughter] >> It's being with what is. And sometimes >> It's being with what is. And sometimes >> It's being with what is. And sometimes being present means being present means being present means >> being with that inner critic. It means >> being with that inner critic. It means >> being with that inner critic. It means being with agitation in your body. being with agitation in your body. being with agitation in your body. >> Of course, it's really important to take >> Of course, it's really important to take >> Of course, it's really important to take in that discomfort in bite-sized pieces. in that discomfort in bite-sized pieces. in that discomfort in bite-sized pieces. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> So that it feels safe to do so. But >> So that it feels safe to do so. But >> So that it feels safe to do so. But >> it it don't always feel good. >> it it don't always feel good. >> it it don't always feel good. >> It doesn't always feel good. You said >> It doesn't always feel good. You said >> It doesn't always feel good. You said that we can't change our past but we can that we can't change our past but we can that we can't change our past but we can shift our internal experience or shift our internal experience or shift our internal experience or interpretation of the past. interpretation of the past. interpretation of the past. >> And so what would you say then is the >> And so what would you say then is the >> And so what would you say then is the first step to shifting the internal first step to shifting the internal first step to shifting the internal feeling feeling feeling >> of being unsafe. >> of being unsafe. >> of being unsafe. >> I think it starts in the body. I and I >> I think it starts in the body. I and I >> I think it starts in the body. I and I for people pleasers for perfectionists for people pleasers for perfectionists for people pleasers for perfectionists it can get very intellectual. it can get very intellectual. it can get very intellectual. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> What should I be telling myself? What >> What should I be telling myself? What >> What should I be telling myself? What are the exact words that I should be are the exact words that I should be are the exact words that I should be saying to myself? And of course selft saying to myself? And of course selft saying to myself? And of course selft talk is very powerful but I think it's talk is very powerful but I think it's talk is very powerful but I think it's from the neck down. from the neck down. from the neck down. >> Uh it's it's slowing down our bodies. >> Uh it's it's slowing down our bodies. >> Uh it's it's slowing down our bodies. It's even just elongating the exhale It's even just elongating the exhale It's even just elongating the exhale sends immediate safety signals to our sends immediate safety signals to our sends immediate safety signals to our body. If inhale for four, exhale for body. If inhale for four, exhale for body. If inhale for four, exhale for six, it's immediately telling the body, six, it's immediately telling the body, six, it's immediately telling the body, you're good. We're safe here. you're good. We're safe here. you're good. We're safe here. >> And again, that doesn't mean it feels >> And again, that doesn't mean it feels >> And again, that doesn't mean it feels good. good. good. >> Uh it can feel kind of discouraging. >> Uh it can feel kind of discouraging. >> Uh it can feel kind of discouraging. Well, I took a deep breath. I still have Well, I took a deep breath. I still have Well, I took a deep breath. I still have I still feel anxious, but good for you. I still feel anxious, but good for you. I still feel anxious, but good for you. You're noticing the anxiety that's there You're noticing the anxiety that's there You're noticing the anxiety that's there and you're allowing yourself to and you're allowing yourself to and you're allowing yourself to acknowledge it. That is such a huge acknowledge it. That is such a huge acknowledge it. That is such a huge step. So, step. So, step. So, >> it's big. >> it's big. >> it's big. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> If you could give your younger self one >> If you could give your younger self one >> If you could give your younger self one gentle reminder, what would it be? gentle reminder, what would it be? gentle reminder, what would it be? >> How young are we talking? [laughter] >> How young are we talking? [laughter] >> How young are we talking? [laughter] >> The time the time you feel like you >> The time the time you feel like you >> The time the time you feel like you needed that reminder the most? needed that reminder the most? needed that reminder the most? I would say I would say I would say you're doing enough. you're doing enough. you're doing enough. You're doing enough. I think I You're doing enough. I think I You're doing enough. I think I internalized internalized internalized uh the message early on. I just need to uh the message early on. I just need to uh the message early on. I just need to always be always be always be doing more and making, you know, doing more and making, you know, doing more and making, you know, achieving more and pleasing more and achieving more and pleasing more and achieving more and pleasing more and caretaking more and you're doing enough. caretaking more and you're doing enough. caretaking more and you're doing enough. And something that's actually, I think, And something that's actually, I think, And something that's actually, I think, important to mention with that people important to mention with that people important to mention with that people pleaser voice is when we have pleaser voice is when we have pleaser voice is when we have accomplishments, when we get an accomplishments, when we get an accomplishments, when we get an accomplishment done as a people pleaser, accomplishment done as a people pleaser, accomplishment done as a people pleaser, it's really common to feel kind of it's really common to feel kind of it's really common to feel kind of relief instead of joy of like I I did relief instead of joy of like I I did relief instead of joy of like I I did it. I I I did it. But we're not actually it. I I I did it. But we're not actually it. I I I did it. But we're not actually that happy with ourselves because we that happy with ourselves because we that happy with ourselves because we always expected ourselves. It was always always expected ourselves. It was always always expected ourselves. It was always our obligation to have to do it. Yeah. our obligation to have to do it. Yeah. our obligation to have to do it. Yeah. >> And so I think just that that message of >> And so I think just that that message of >> And so I think just that that message of enoughness can feel kind of cliche even, enoughness can feel kind of cliche even, enoughness can feel kind of cliche even, but it's so important because we but it's so important because we but it's so important because we remember we find safety in doing more. remember we find safety in doing more. remember we find safety in doing more. And so for just this to be enough is And so for just this to be enough is And so for just this to be enough is very powerful, you know. very powerful, you know. very powerful, you know. >> Yeah, you are enough. >> Yeah, you are enough. >> Yeah, you are enough. >> As a leading psychotherapist, >> As a leading psychotherapist, >> As a leading psychotherapist, what is your ultimate message to all what is your ultimate message to all what is your ultimate message to all people pleasers out there? people pleasers out there? people pleasers out there? >> Just one just one message. What would be >> Just one just one message. What would be >> Just one just one message. What would be your message your message your message >> I would say which is a chapter in my >> I would say which is a chapter in my >> I would say which is a chapter in my book nothing is personal nothing is book nothing is personal nothing is book nothing is personal nothing is permanent and nothing is perfect where permanent and nothing is perfect where permanent and nothing is perfect where we can uh remember those three pillars I we can uh remember those three pillars I we can uh remember those three pillars I think that's think that's think that's >> that's a good place to start >> that's a good place to start >> that's a good place to start >> good message yeah >> good message yeah >> good message yeah >> your book is called are you mad at me >> your book is called are you mad at me >> your book is called are you mad at me how to stop focusing on what others how to stop focusing on what others how to stop focusing on what others think and start living for you uh it's think and start living for you uh it's think and start living for you uh it's got a lot of different praise and a lot got a lot of different praise and a lot got a lot of different praise and a lot of great resources and tools to help of great resources and tools to help of great resources and tools to help people on their journey So, if you feel people on their journey So, if you feel people on their journey So, if you feel like you are some of this is resonating like you are some of this is resonating like you are some of this is resonating with you and you want some more tools, with you and you want some more tools, with you and you want some more tools, make sure to get a copy of Meg's book, make sure to get a copy of Meg's book, make sure to get a copy of Meg's book, Are You Mad at Me? Um, you're also all Are You Mad at Me? Um, you're also all Are You Mad at Me? Um, you're also all over social media, Meg Joseph Josephson over social media, Meg Joseph Josephson over social media, Meg Joseph Josephson on social media, Tik Tok, Instagram, on social media, Tik Tok, Instagram, on social media, Tik Tok, Instagram, Substack, Substack, Substack, >> which is called Peace of Mind, uh, at >> which is called Peace of Mind, uh, at >> which is called Peace of Mind, uh, at megosphen.com. megosphen.com. megosphen.com. Uh, I've got two final questions for Uh, I've got two final questions for Uh, I've got two final questions for you. This has been really inspiring. Is you. This has been really inspiring. Is you. This has been really inspiring. Is there anything First off, is there there anything First off, is there there anything First off, is there anything that we've missed that you feel anything that we've missed that you feel anything that we've missed that you feel like you would like to share? like you would like to share? like you would like to share? >> I don't think so. Okay. >> I don't think so. Okay. >> I don't think so. Okay. >> Covered good ground. >> Covered good ground. >> Covered good ground. >> Yeah, really good ground. Uh, this is >> Yeah, really good ground. Uh, this is >> Yeah, really good ground. Uh, this is called the three truths. It's a called the three truths. It's a called the three truths. It's a hypothetical scenario. So, imagine Meg, hypothetical scenario. So, imagine Meg, hypothetical scenario. So, imagine Meg, you get to live as long as you want, but you get to live as long as you want, but you get to live as long as you want, but it's your last day on this earth it's your last day on this earth it's your last day on this earth >> in the f in the future. >> in the f in the future. >> in the f in the future. >> And you live the life of your dreams >> And you live the life of your dreams >> And you live the life of your dreams from this moment until that last day. from this moment until that last day. from this moment until that last day. >> But for whatever reason, on the last >> But for whatever reason, on the last >> But for whatever reason, on the last day, you have to take all of your work day, you have to take all of your work day, you have to take all of your work with you. So, this content, your books, with you. So, this content, your books, with you. So, this content, your books, and anything you create, it's gone. It and anything you create, it's gone. It and anything you create, it's gone. It doesn't exist. doesn't exist. doesn't exist. >> Doesn't exist on earth anymore. >> Doesn't exist on earth anymore. >> Doesn't exist on earth anymore. Hypothetical. Hypothetical. Hypothetical. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> But on the final day, you get to leave >> But on the final day, you get to leave >> But on the final day, you get to leave behind three lessons, behind three lessons, behind three lessons, >> three truths that you would leave behind >> three truths that you would leave behind >> three truths that you would leave behind to the world. And this is all we would to the world. And this is all we would to the world. And this is all we would have of your content. What would be have of your content. What would be have of your content. What would be those three truths for you on that last those three truths for you on that last those three truths for you on that last day? day? day? >> Oh, well, I'm sure these truths were >> Oh, well, I'm sure these truths were >> Oh, well, I'm sure these truths were said by so many people that came before said by so many people that came before said by so many people that came before me that [clears throat] taught me those me that [clears throat] taught me those me that [clears throat] taught me those truths. So mine would just be truths. So mine would just be truths. So mine would just be paraphrasing what I've learned from paraphrasing what I've learned from paraphrasing what I've learned from other people. other people. other people. >> But uh a huge just my core principle is >> But uh a huge just my core principle is >> But uh a huge just my core principle is just that everything's fleeting just that everything's fleeting just that everything's fleeting >> and impermanent whether it's an >> and impermanent whether it's an >> and impermanent whether it's an uncomfortable sensation in the body or uncomfortable sensation in the body or uncomfortable sensation in the body or whether things are going really well. whether things are going really well. whether things are going really well. This is impermanent. uh and just to This is impermanent. uh and just to This is impermanent. uh and just to acknowledging that impermanence allows acknowledging that impermanence allows acknowledging that impermanence allows us to enjoy the good stuff and move us to enjoy the good stuff and move us to enjoy the good stuff and move through the challenging stuff with more through the challenging stuff with more through the challenging stuff with more ease. ease. ease. >> Uh second one I would say is this is >> Uh second one I would say is this is >> Uh second one I would say is this is something that I'm I'm [clears throat] something that I'm I'm [clears throat] something that I'm I'm [clears throat] saying this because it's just something saying this because it's just something saying this because it's just something I'm working on is just opening my heart. I'm working on is just opening my heart. I'm working on is just opening my heart. Be open. Um, I think it's really easy to Be open. Um, I think it's really easy to Be open. Um, I think it's really easy to be close off our energy for be close off our energy for be close off our energy for self-preservation and protection and, self-preservation and protection and, self-preservation and protection and, you know, prevent being seen and just you know, prevent being seen and just you know, prevent being seen and just practice being open. These are all practice being open. These are all practice being open. These are all things I tell myself. So, I guess that's things I tell myself. So, I guess that's things I tell myself. So, I guess that's what I'm imparting is what I'm telling what I'm imparting is what I'm telling what I'm imparting is what I'm telling myself. myself. myself. >> And then perhaps the last one would be I >> And then perhaps the last one would be I >> And then perhaps the last one would be I guess another uh, of course, uh, guess another uh, of course, uh, guess another uh, of course, uh, non-attachment. And of course many non-attachment. And of course many non-attachment. And of course many people before me have have expressed people before me have have expressed people before me have have expressed this but uh I just think so much of my this but uh I just think so much of my this but uh I just think so much of my personal suffering and a lot of our personal suffering and a lot of our personal suffering and a lot of our suffering comes from gripping on to our suffering comes from gripping on to our suffering comes from gripping on to our expectations of what this moment should expectations of what this moment should expectations of what this moment should be or what we you know think we should be or what we you know think we should be or what we you know think we should be doing or what we should be feeling or be doing or what we should be feeling or be doing or what we should be feeling or shouldn't be feeling and just practicing shouldn't be feeling and just practicing shouldn't be feeling and just practicing letting the moment roll off of us. Um letting the moment roll off of us. Um letting the moment roll off of us. Um >> knowing that it will change and that it >> knowing that it will change and that it >> knowing that it will change and that it is impermanent. is impermanent. is impermanent. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Is a constant practice for me. >> Is a constant practice for me. >> Is a constant practice for me. >> That's it. My my therapist says high >> That's it. My my therapist says high >> That's it. My my therapist says high engagement, low attachment. engagement, low attachment. engagement, low attachment. >> I love that. >> I love that. >> I love that. >> You know, be fully engaged and like >> You know, be fully engaged and like >> You know, be fully engaged and like >> passionate and excited about what you >> passionate and excited about what you >> passionate and excited about what you want to create, but want to create, but want to create, but >> not attached to it. >> not attached to it. >> not attached to it. >> Don't get attached to it. Absolutely. >> Don't get attached to it. Absolutely. >> Don't get attached to it. Absolutely. [snorts] [snorts] [snorts] >> Absolutely. It's a thing. Meg, I want to >> Absolutely. It's a thing. Meg, I want to >> Absolutely. It's a thing. Meg, I want to acknowledge you for the journey you've acknowledge you for the journey you've acknowledge you for the journey you've been on and I know you have gone through been on and I know you have gone through been on and I know you have gone through a lot growing up and you talk about it a lot growing up and you talk about it a lot growing up and you talk about it in your your book about your experience in your your book about your experience in your your book about your experience with your father and different with your father and different with your father and different challenges you faced challenges you faced challenges you faced >> and I acknowledge you for using your >> and I acknowledge you for using your >> and I acknowledge you for using your life to heal and to study so you can life to heal and to study so you can life to heal and to study so you can help others overcome their pain and help others overcome their pain and help others overcome their pain and trauma because trauma because trauma because >> it's a lot when a child goes through >> it's a lot when a child goes through >> it's a lot when a child goes through uncertainties on a a daily or weekly uncertainties on a a daily or weekly uncertainties on a a daily or weekly basis. Yeah. basis. Yeah. basis. Yeah. >> And the fact that you have made it your >> And the fact that you have made it your >> And the fact that you have made it your life's mission to serve others is life's mission to serve others is life's mission to serve others is something I really acknowledge in you. something I really acknowledge in you. something I really acknowledge in you. >> Oh, make me cry. Thank you. >> Oh, make me cry. Thank you. >> Oh, make me cry. Thank you. >> So, I appreciate the work you do. >> So, I appreciate the work you do. >> So, I appreciate the work you do. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> My final question is, what's your >> My final question is, what's your >> My final question is, what's your definition of greatness? definition of greatness? definition of greatness? >> I've been thinking about this knowing >> I've been thinking about this knowing >> I've been thinking about this knowing that you would ask it to me. Um I think that you would ask it to me. Um I think that you would ask it to me. Um I think well I think greatness is uh it's so well I think greatness is uh it's so well I think greatness is uh it's so individually defined and it will look individually defined and it will look individually defined and it will look different for everyone and I think that different for everyone and I think that different for everyone and I think that is greatness is knowing what does is greatness is knowing what does is greatness is knowing what does greatness mean to me. Um but I think for greatness mean to me. Um but I think for greatness mean to me. Um but I think for me greatness is presence. me greatness is presence. me greatness is presence. >> Yeah. and being able to be with whatever >> Yeah. and being able to be with whatever >> Yeah. and being able to be with whatever is happening through the hard stuff, is happening through the hard stuff, is happening through the hard stuff, through the positive stuff, through the positive stuff, through the positive stuff, experiencing it because it's just means experiencing it because it's just means experiencing it because it's just means I'm alive. I'm alive. I'm alive. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Is being able to to live it. So >> Is being able to to live it. So >> Is being able to to live it. So >> there you go. >> there you go. >> there you go. >> I would say that >> I would say that >> I would say that >> me, thanks for being here. Appreciate >> me, thanks for being here. Appreciate >> me, thanks for being here. Appreciate you you you >> so much. [music] Appreciate it. Thank >> so much. [music] Appreciate it. Thank >> so much. [music] Appreciate it. Thank you. you. you. >> People will say to me, Dr. K, I I have >> People will say to me, Dr. K, I I have >> People will say to me, Dr. K, I I have no motivation. That's incorrect. You no motivation. That's incorrect. You no motivation. That's incorrect. You have a ton of motivation. You have a ton have a ton of motivation. You have a ton have a ton of motivation. You have a ton of motivation to stay home. You have a of motivation to stay home. You have a of motivation to stay home. You have a ton of motivation to play video games. ton of motivation to play video games. ton of motivation to play video games. There is [music] such a powerful drive There is [music] such a powerful drive There is [music] such a powerful drive to return to the couch. So identity to return to the couch. So identity to return to the couch. So identity shapes motivation. He is a psychiatrist.