Protein Myths Are Wrecking Your Progress | Mind Pump 2771

Key Takeaway

Protein isn't just important—it's transformative. Whether your goal is fat loss, muscle building, endurance, or longevity, hitting 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight changes everything. The challenge? Most people dramatically undereat protein. Track your intake for a week and you'll likely discover you're 50-100 grams short of optimal levels. Start prioritizing protein-rich whole foods at every meal, and if needed, use high-protein snacks to bridge the gap.

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into why protein is the 'magic macronutrient' that transforms fitness results regardless of your goals. The hosts explain how most people eat enough protein to survive but nowhere near enough to thrive. They discuss the dramatic differences between essential and optimal protein intake, sharing personal experiences of finally hitting optimal levels (1 gram per pound of body weight) and the profound changes in recovery, strength, muscle building, and body composition. The conversation emphasizes that while this advice sounds simple, consistently hitting high protein targets is surprisingly challenging without intentional planning and protein-rich snacks.

Full Transcript

Transcript of Protein Myths Are Wrecking Your Progress | Mind Pump 2771 from Mind Pump Show. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

The magic macro nutrient. I actually used to make fun of this, but the data is clear. There is a magic macronutrient. It actually doesn't matter what your goal is. It's protein. And we're going to talk about the studies on protein, what it does for you. Regardless of your goal, this is something you should take seriously. Let's talk about protein. Let's get into it. it. it. I mean, this is uh if you've listened to the podcast for for longer than a, you know, three weeks, you've probably heard us hammer this.

Yeah, hammer this home. I mean, I last night I had a phone call uh from uh Katrina's uh brother-in-law who uh actually just recently stayed at the Park City House. So, he was actually calling me and thank me and said what what amazing stay it was and he's like, "Hey, I wanted to get your your thoughts too on my diet and this and that." And you know, when I when I when I talk to family and friends, I think they always expect, you know, me to lay out like this this this elaborate elaborate elaborate Yeah.

Yeah. And I go, "Listen, I'm going to give you something that to I'm going to give you something that I know is is difficult for people to do consistently, but it will radically change your body if you just trust me and do these things." Like, I I already got He's following a mass 15 programs. I've got the programming side. I know he's not doing worthless stuff. He's got good workout. It's like all I want you to do is think about protein every day. Your goal is 200 grams of protein every day.

And I don't want you to do it sometimes or occasionally or now and then. Like that's all you focus on. And like I'm not even going to talk to you about calories. I'm not going to talk to you about anything else right now. Just focus on that because that in itself is for most people in especially in America is is a huge challenge because we have sold everybody on these makebelieve breakfast foods. Uh every restaurant serves you carbohydrates first. carbohydrates first. carbohydrates first. You know, we eat all these sweets and desserts.

We drink 900 calories on an average day of, you know, Starbucks drinks and [ __ ] And so it's really tough to go after protein centric foods. And yet, if you just did that with some weight training, it'll blow your mind. Yeah. So, here's here's where we need to go with this cuz uh where it gets muddy is when people see the RDA or they hear diet, you know, dieticians communicate this. And here's the truth. Uh the average westerner doesn't undereat protein. We don't. We're not missing essential protein for the most part.

For the most part, people aren't uh not functioning properly. Their bodies aren't falling apart because they're not eating enough protein to do that. That's true. But there's a difference between what is essential and what is optimal. And it's a big difference when it comes to protein. It's a very big difference. If you're a 170 lb man working out and you get 65 grams of protein a day, you're fine. You're fine. But you're so far from optimal. You're so far from what your body will do when you double or triple that number.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For your body weight. Um and here's the crazy This is why I I said it was a magic macronutrient. It This is where it gets wild, everybody. Doesn't matter what your goal is. Okay. So, the data shows this. shows this. shows this. Yeah. And our experience has shown us this as well, but the data also supports this. So, let's start with fat loss. Okay, someone might be like, well, I thought I needed to eat less calories. Doesn't protein have calories. How is that possibly make sense?

You're telling me that I need to eat more of something that's going to give me more calories and yet I'm trying to lose body fat. That makes no sense. Well, here's how it works. So, first let's we'll talk about the studies that compare calorically equivalent diets. One being high protein uh in the context of what we mean when we say high protein. So, not more than the RDA, but much more. What this looks like is about a gram of protein per pound of body weight in a person that's not obese.

If you're really obese, use lean body mass. But for the average person, this is we we typically would say your target body weight. know you're 170 lb man, you're going to chase 170 gram of protein a day. Okay? When you compare two diets, same calories, one of them 170 grams of protein, the other one 70 grams of protein. So the difference would be the 70 gram of protein one might have more carbs and fats to make up the difference. Here's what we find. The higher protein diet results in more fat loss and more muscle gain or more muscle preservation depending on uh where the calories are at.

In other words, the person trying to lose weight keeps more muscle because the protein's higher which then results in better fat loss later on as well. Here's the second part to it. uh for most people, especially in the initial stages, especially in the first year or so, eating that much protein produces a tremendous amount of satiety. And so it naturally naturally I love things that naturally control calories is so hard. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When you're trying to lose body fat to eat less, you're hungry, cravings, you got to fight that all the time.

We're surrounded by food. So easy to get. It's the natural Olympic. What if I could get Exactly. What if I could get your your your calories down because your appetite goes down a little bit? Wasn't that amazing? Hitting that high protein target does it. And that's just fat loss. I I I love that you went this way and and I tied it to the conversation I had because so this was about a it was a 45minute plus drive last night. It was raining and sudden I was in traffic so it was a long conversation and we went all over the place with cortisol and insulin and stress and so like I gave like the simple advice and then I broke down like all the science and the reason why it's this simple and why I want you to focus on this.

And like at the end of the call, he was like, "I don't know why it took me this long to call you. You've absolutely blown my mind in like 45 minutes with you. Would you please would you do this? Would you have a call with my wife?" I'm like, "I'm going to blow your mind again." I'm like, "The advice is exactly the same. The only the only difference is she needs to have about 130 to 140 grams instead of the 200 g." That's the And I want you to give her all this.

I want you to tell her everything I just told you to do and why to do it and all the things, but the only difference is just have her focus on hitting 130 to 140 consistently every single day cuz that's her target. That's her target regardless if they had different little bit different goals. He wants to build some muscle and this that she wants to reduce B. It's like the the advice is exactly the same. And I said and then listen, go do that for 30 to 60 days religiously.

Don't miss. Make that a focus. Hit your workouts and just do that. And then I'm going to show you so much results, positive results that I'll know if you did it because you're going to come back to me going like, "Oh my god, my energy is up. I feel stronger. I can see my body changing even though the scale has it." You're both going to say that to me. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. And then I'm going to give you another layer to this and like little tweaks and stuff like that, but just go do that for both of you.

Go do that. That's right. right. right. And he was just like, "Oh, okay. Well, here well here's another one where people because people will think fat loss does it really apply we covered that then people will say does it apply to endurance I just want stamina and endurance and I heard that for endurance and stamina I need a lot of carbohydrates now it is true that carbohydrates are a preferred source of energy so what I'm about to communicate does not mean don't eat carbs on top of this okay so you still need carbs for endurance and stamina but does high protein like we're communic like the way we're communicating it a gram of protein per pound of body weight.

Does that also benefit endurance athletes? Yes, it does. does. does. It does. The data shows this. And now, now, how is it? Because I have more energy. I have more calories to burn. No, burn. No, burn. No, it's because your recovery is so much better. One of the challenges with any kind of exercise or training, especially endurance training, endurance training, endurance training, repetitive stress. repetitive stress. repetitive stress. That's right. Endurance training is is unique in the sense that to a limit, the more you because there's always a limit, right?

But the more you do, the better. This is not true with strength training. Strength training is much more hit the signal, hit it right, build muscle. Endurance, of course, there's still a limit, but the more you can get away with so long as you're not beating yourself up too much, the better your adaptation is in terms of endurance. This why endurance athletes trade so much more than someone who's just trying to build strength and muscle. Okay, that's that's why that that happens. But the limiting factor often times, and if you're listening, you know this.

If you run marathons, you're a triathlete or you're an athlete, you're you're pol water polo player like you know where you're just training your butt off like what prevents you from training more is just you can't recover. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Bump your protein intake and watch what I just had this it just clicked with my brother-in-law. So he does jiu-jitsu and jiu-jitsu is pretty intense. It's two and a half hour class. You know an hour of that is your sparring grown men wrestling like it's it's tough.

Uh he's also got a job and he's got a he's got two kids. One of them is, you know, under the age of 4 months, and he's trying to go to jiu-jitsu 4 days a week and also do like one day a week of strength training. And he's always talking about, man, you know, I'm sore, I'm stiff, I'm hurting myself. And so I I said, listen, either you dramatically reduce the amount of training you do, or you do what I tell you with protein. He's like, well, aren't I going to gain body fat?

I'm trying to get leaner. I said, just And so we've had this conversation over and over again. So he finally finally did it. And a week in, this is 7 days in, he's texting me. He's like, "Dude," he's like, "I can't believe it." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I can't believe how much more energy I have, how much stronger I am. Uh he's like, "I feel like I'm getting leaner." And I And I And I He thought it was a placebo at first, right? right? right? Yeah. He's like, "I don't know if it's a placebo or whatever." By the way, this this was a weekend.

We're now 3 weeks in. He's totally sold. He's like, "What a huge a huge a huge Makes a huge difference." Difference. And the reason why he was losing stamina, endurance in his training was cuz he just wasn't able to recover because he didn't have the the building blocks for recovery which come from from from Oh, you're still breaking down tissue. That's the thing. And like joints, uh, ligaments and and tendons, everything else benefits from those amino acids and protein. I mean, it's just part of the rebuilding process.

rebuilding process. rebuilding process. The the good news is the message is getting out. getting out. getting out. Before you walked in the studio, I was just sharing with Justin. I saw a commercial last night watching basketball. uh from Chipotle. And Chipotle now has a high protein me uh menu. menu. menu. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Wow. And it's and it's dedicated to uh 36, 42, and 60 grams of protein meal. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Four programs 50% off. Maps starter, MAPS Transform, Maps Anabolic, and Maps Performance.

They're all half off. Go to mapsfitnessproducts.com. mapsfitnessproducts.com. mapsfitnessproducts.com. Use the code new year new year50 for that discount. Back to the show. All right, real quick. If you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over at mypumpstore.com. I'm talking right now. Hit pause. Head on over to mypumpstore.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. And so you're seeing these companies pop up all all I mean Chris Power is an example of this a new partner of ours that's you know pro high protein pretzels like pretzels like pretzels like so the the message is getting out on on the value of of protein and you're starting to see more and more companies I'm glad you brought up Chris Power.

We're going to put a pin in that and go back to it because uh at the end of this, we're going to talk about the challenges with hitting protein. And I think Chris Power is a great Yeah. Because Because Because it solves. Yes. And again, I'm not gonna we won't go here yet, but I will say this, what we're saying is a lot harder than you think. So people here listening to this right now are like, "Oh, cool. I'm going to go like it's getting it from Whole Foods is very, very difficult." Okay, so we talked about endurance and recover.

We talked about fat loss, muscle building. Probably don't need to spend a lot of time here. This is where it's sold the most. But it makes a huge difference when it comes to muscle building. Big difference, everybody. If you're strength training and you're the typical female consuming 60 grams of protein a day and the typical male eating 90 grams of protein a day and you suddenly start hitting protein targets with your same strength training routine, it will feel like you're taking steroids all of a sudden.

It will literally feel like what is happening to my body? It's in other words, it's not subtle. It's a big difference in strength and muscle gain and over two months, three months, four months, massive visible changes for muscle building. It makes a huge, huge difference. difference. difference. It's such a huge difference. This is why I said to him exact same advice. And I said, I'll know when you call me back in 30 to 60 days if you took it or not because I know the response I'll get.

And I'll know. I said, I'll know if you were inconsistent with it. I'll know if you had some days he hit you didn't have it cuz it it won't be so profound. But if you religiously hit that and you stay consistent with just you he was already consist he's been training for a year and he's like that's why he was coming to me cuz like I've been training for a year I'm not seeing any results right so I'm like here's the program that's taken care of I know that stick to that which by the way reduced his volume significantly right he was training 6 days a week and a half two hours in the gym every single day too much put him on a MAPS 15 protocol said don't do anything more more and explained why all that and said hit your protein intake and then I will know if you do it because the the results that you will feel and see will be profound in just 30 to 60 days and then I'll give you the next layer.

next layer. next layer. It's wild. So, just speaking from personal experience, I know this. I'm in this fitness space. I've been communicating it for years. I've been training people for years. I never consumed uh a low protein diet, but for a long time, I would say I probably averaged, but it's still considered high protein, about 150 grams a day. At one point, it was limited by gut health. I got that solved relatively recently. I'd say over the past maybe couple years, this is the first time I've ever consistently consistently meaning every single day eaten my body weight and protein.

So, I'm eating 220 grams of protein every single day right now. Sometimes a little more, sometimes around 230. Oh my gosh, the difference is from 150 to 230. And it the the diff and by the way, my calories were still high before. I've actually swapped out some of my other macros for the protein because it does hammer your appetite because I feel it. I eat the protein, I'm like, "Oh my god, I barely want any of this rice." You know, type of deal. The difference in my training is insane.

First of all, I have, this is one that I didn't realize. I have less pain, which makes sense because it's a recovery thing. recovery thing. recovery thing. My joints feel better. Uh the insertion points of my muscles, you know, which can sometimes get stressed if I start lifting really heavy. It's not really happening anymore. Uh when I'm training, I I built muscle, that's for sure. I think I gained like four pounds of lean body mass if I had to guess. I That's funny you say that.

Yeah, cuz I I noticed that, too. But uh I attribute it cuz I know when I uh increase my water intake, that has a similar effect with pain, but like the protein for sure when in recovery, it makes a big difference. difference. difference. I you know, early days of the podcast, we used to keep this ongoing tally of Adam right sight type situation here. I'm going to bring this back because back in the beginning, this is something I've been screaming on the podcast forever and I of all of us, I'm the guy who tracks repeated a million times million times million times who tracks like crazy and I know that and and like all of us in here, we know the benefits of protein.

We go after this and that, but every time I go to track, I go, damn, I am still not hitting optimal numbers. And when I get up to optimal numbers, it is a radical difference. I just I build way more muscle. I recover way better. better. better. Sleep better. Sleep better. Sleep better. Yes. Sleep better. But it's hard. It is it is hard to do it consistently day in and day out. It's also and and by the way, we're going we're speaking in the context of you also exercise.

Okay. Cuz you could you could throw extra protein on the couch and just eat. Yeah. And there there's probably some benefit, you know, to it, but it's it's it's really largely overstated unless you're also strength training or working out. Okay. So I got to make sure I say that cuz bunch of couch potatoes suddenly suddenly suddenly I don't think that's a lot. I think that's a very even though even though I have heard some people that listen to the podcast that don't exercise but it's very rare.

I think most people are maybe a weird choice for them to listen to. to. to. It also helps with longevity and so the data on this is is clear as well. As you get older more protein becomes even more important because it improves uh frailty. Uh so as you get older you know along you know besides you know other the the main things heart disease cancer that kind of stuff frailty is a big problem. Sure. problem. Sure. problem. Sure. And uh strength training, you got to do it.

Protein amplifies the hell out of it and it makes a big difference around longevity. But now there's challenges around this because if you're listening this and you never done it consistently, you might have done it a day here, a day there, but like do it every sing every single day because this is what you got to do. You got to be consistent with it. Listen, it's not easy. It is not easy for me to get 220 grams of protein. if you're if it's not intentionally like if you're not thinking about it constantly, you're behind.

And it's it's pretty much a fact for me personally, and I know like anybody else I've told this to, and it's like, it's like, it's like, you know, it it seems like, oh, well, that's that's simple. That's I have to eat four meals with 50 g of protein plus throw a shake in. It's really hard. So, where I'm going with this is a try doing it with whole foods because this helps with body composition, kind of naturally controls calories. B, when you find it to be very difficult as you're tracking and you're missing by 30 or 40, this is why protein supplementation or protein snacks can be quite beneficial.

You brought up earlier, Chris Power, I like we'll bring them up. This is these are pretzels. They're they're very palatable. Uh you you eat one of these bags uh in a day. What is it like 30 grams of protein on those? those? those? 28. So they they range between I think 26 is the lowest to 29. I'm eating a bag or two every day right now just because it's it's so convenient and easy. It's easy for me while I'm driving to and from. It's not messy.

It's like and for me to be able to snack on something when and and and I I don't know if you guys are this way, but when I'm aggressively going after my protein, I don't find a lot of times where I'm actually hungry. So, I have to like I have to find times where hey, you know what? Yeah. I'm I'm not hungry enough to sit down and eat a steak and rice meal right now, but I could snack on some pretzels that'll give me an extra 26 or 28 grams of protein.

So, that's what I find myself too because to your point, when you are so protein centric, it's very satiating. And if I'm in build mode right now and so for in order for me to do that, I've got to train getting those extra grams of protein in and even when I'm not quote unquote hungry. And so having a salty snack that I can eat while I'm driving between meals and stuff like that has been huge for me. So it's it's it's What flavor are you doing by the way?

I So I So originally the hot ones, but the hot ones I I need something to wash it down with. So those aren't the best for driving. But uh I actually So sesame was what I had yesterday and then the green ones which are like I think sea salt. salt. salt. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I I haven't had one I I h I haven't really liked. So even the They hit They hit it out of both. They're good. They're they're all really really good.

So, I'm I don't know. I'm toggling between the the the sea salt one and then there's a the purple one, which I forget what the name I got to remember the names of all the bagel. Everything. Yes. The the everything one and then the sea salt one are becoming my my new favorites. I still like the jalapeno ones, but they got a kick to them. So, if I don't have something to wash them down with, like my mouth will be on fire. You know what's interesting, too, about this, you know, uh you hear a lot of talk about um uh stabilizing blood sugar, insulin sensitivity.

protein has a rarely a really interesting effect on that. It's it's quite remarkable. You eat a high protein diet. You eat, first of all, of all, of all, yeah, first thing in the morning, let's say you're going to eat garbage. I'm not advocating this, okay? So, this is not what I'm telling you to do, but they've done studies on this. I'm about to eat garbage food. I'm about to have donuts, but right before I ate the donuts, I eat 30 grams or 40 gram or 50 grams of whole natural food based protein.

So, I ate that first, then I ate the donuts. You'll eat half the donuts. Not only will I eat half, but let's say I ate the same amount. Blood sugar doesn't go crazy. Blood sugar doesn't go as crazy. Yeah. You won't. It won't. No. Also, in real life, real life, real life, I'll bet I'll bet my last dollar. No, you're right. If you go in That's real life, right? life, right? life, right? Yeah. In real life, if you go in and you say, cuz I used to have to do this, like, so when I when I finally learned that I was way under protein, and that was what was keeping me, the 180 lb kid who couldn't build any muscle with all the movement I do, I was like, "Okay, I I'm not getting enough protein and I'm eating too much junk food is what what was happening." So, I was like, "Okay, I got to go get the protein first.

Then, I get the protein." And I would give myself that permission to have the donuts, to have the milkshake, to do it. But oh boy, it was it was so hard to drink or eat or do that thing that is super palatable after I had that high protein. So it's it's it's for the the the hard gainer, it's difficult to do that. And if you're the person who struggles with weight, it's one of the best hacks and strategies to maintain your weight. Well, so what happens uh with this is if you if you did uh chase a bulk or a cut, okay, let's say you just hit your target number, let's say like, okay, my target body weight's this, this is grams of protein, whole natural foods.

Here's what kind of happens. This is what I've experienced with clients, and this is the feedback we've gotten with our trainers is that you're without tracking your calories, you're just eating pro, you're eating whole natural foods, eating the protein first, your strength training, your calories naturally go up and down. And what dictates your appetite is if your body's building or losing body fat. And so you actually get this nice body composition change. Not these big dramatic swings. Yeah. But rather over time I get leaner, build muscle.

Uh muscle. I get leaner, build muscle. Uh because your appetite uh is driven by your training, by your strength training, which is quite remarkable. Um and I'll take it a step further. If the average person did nothing else but just did that, stuck to whole natural foods, we would solve obesity. It would it would solve Yeah. it without them having to worry about anything complicated. And I got to track this and count that, right? right? right? It makes that big of a difference, everybody. It's it's it's crazy.

And again, for me who's done this for as long as I have, I can't believe the difference between, you know, 50 to 170 grams of protein to 220. 220. 220. Like the difference in my training is it's it's silly. That's the word I want to use. It's actually quite silly. Speaking of silly, another point for me. Have you got Yeah, you got it, dude. Adam won. Adam won. Adam won. It's been a long time since it's been a long time since we did that. And hearing you say that right now, I'm like, man, I remember saying this for a long time to this guy.

You know what I'm saying? It's so true. Hey, do do you you might know this story. Do you know the story of FedEx and how they almost went bankrupt? Yes. Yes. Yes. This is the craziest. And he went and g He gambled. He He put on the story. Yes, of course. Yes. Yes. Roulette. Yes. He put it on black or Yes. He put it on black or red or whatever. It's a crazy story. This is like I don't even know if this is good advice. I mean, I don't think I don't think you should do this.

This is not good advice. No, I'll read to you. In fact, actually, S, I bet you this has happened a lot more times than we know about the opposite. I'm sure. Yes. People have heard this story and then been like, "Oh, like this is like their answer to solve their problem." problem." problem." I mean, he put everything on the line. So, 1973, So, 1973, So, 1973, FedEx was losing $30,000 per day. They had $5,000 in the bank and a $24,000 fuel bill due on Monday. Almost 400 employees were about to lose their jobs.

So that's what was happening uh at this moment. Let me get this to come up again. So this CEO is like, "What am I going to do? How am I going to get this company to to come out?" Let me pull it up again cuz it froze. So here's what happened. Uh they lost prior to this $29 million in 26 months. He asked his employees to hold off on cashing their paychecks. paychecks. paychecks. Just hey guys, like please hold off. I'm going to figure this out.

pilots were using their own credit cards to fuel their planes, hoping to be reimbursed later. reimbursed later. reimbursed later. Oh my god. Friday he the if they said, "Hey, look, if your f fuel bill isn't paid by Monday, your planes aren't going to fly." fly." fly." So, what he did is he he went to, by the way, his uh he created the idea for FedEx in his econ class, got a C on it. So, he talks about this and he's like, "My professor, he was right, dude.

I can't do this." By the way, he's C students are the best entrepreneurs. This guy apparently was a badass. So, he was in the Marine Corps. He survived, you know, childhood arthritis as a kid. Uh he, you know, he did two tours in Vietnam. He's like, I'm not going down without a fight. So, he literally withdrew the company's remaining funds and went to Vegas, dude. Oh my god. And he played blackjack. Oh, it was blackjack. I thought he all on black. on black. on black. Blackjack, dude.

Blackjack, dude. Blackjack, dude. Blackjack. Okay. And and this is so he tells a story. Wonder if that's better odds. He would win a few hands, lose a few. At one point he was up 35 grand. Then he lost almost all of it, but he ended and he ended on top. By Sunday night, he turned the money into $27,000. He paid the fuel bill, kept the planes flying for one more week, and then ended up getting uh a within weeks got an investor to give him $11 million.

Of course, now they're a massive company. massive company. massive company. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, dude. dude. dude. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What? What a great story. That could have gone bad. Psychotic week. week. week. So, you imagine that? I can't remember what I was watching on Netflix, but there's a there's there's the it happens all the time the other way. way. way. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's not a good strategy. Yeah. Then he gets drunk and all this other [ __ ] happen. So, I have a update.

When you shared the uh squatter guy, I Oh, the squatter hunter. I just got so I mean my my my business wheels Yeah. just start going like this is a great business idea. I mean I so I went down and like I looked more into his story and stuff like that. So listen to how to how to how there's another layer to this. So why why it's so difficult is it's a um squatting is a civil thing and so the cops can't there's not they're not you're not breaking a a law that you could they could literally do anything about.

So it's like you have to take this to court which is weird because they are breaking and entering. Well but that's the part they can't prove. You know what I'm saying? And so that's the that's where this gets all. So a a large percent of percentage of these people that squat like this are also ex criminals or have done other things like that. And so a lot of times they're on parole. So one of the ways he expedites this is he brings guns to the house.

So he gets the landlord to rent one of the rooms to him legally. Signs and he rents one of the rooms and he brings guns out. Then he calls the cops because if you're on parole, you can't be anywhere near the the the in. So he plays their game and uses laws against them, too. Yeah. And then the cops actually can remove him and arrest him. Wonderful. Wonderful. Wonderful. How brilliant is that? So like that's like So that's like that's hack one right there. It's just like there's like a good I can't remember what the percentage was, but it's a high percentage of Yeah.

of these squatters have criminal records and or on parole. And so he's like if they're on parole, I've got weapons that I am allowed to legally have. brings them into rents the room. He has his guns in his house. They no longer can be in the same house as those weapons and they're legally can get removed now. Isn't that brilliant? brilliant? brilliant? I love that. I know. I just think it's so crazy that we have laws that make it hard to kick someone who's out of your house.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Illegally. Illegally. Illegally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's so crazy. And like and protect burglars from like invading your house. You know what? This is a break. This is such a win though for me for humans because there's for every stupid law and stupid thing that we do. Someone smarter comes around and finds how to use that [ __ ] against you or a loophole or somebody who who takes advantage in business. Somebody else goes like, "Let me create a business that will just bankrupt that business by doing by," you know what I'm saying?

Like Like Like sooner or later even even sometimes it takes a while. It does. It feel and it feels like that one took a while cuz you've heard of you've heard so many horror stories of squatters squatters squatters and it's like watch this go continue to go viral and people learn and figure this out and now as a landlord you're like oh I'm just going to my uncle who's got this huge gun collection I'm going to rent a room to him he's going to show up there and if those people are on parole they're out like that and then your only hard one is if someone is not on parole but I mean the percentage likelihood of someone's willing to do something like that probably done other shady stuff shady stuff shady stuff something so rewarding.

And like you see these videos too when they catch like a lot of the um the fraud uh overseas where they like do the call centers. Oh, I love those. And they Yeah. And they they hijack their cameras. They hijack their computers and they show them everything and who's there and they freak out. Yes. And I just I just I personally just love that because it's just like, dude, these people just are just literally taking advantage full on knowing that they're ripping and stealing and it's like there's no recourse.

It's like we just need recourse. We need all this to come back. come back. come back. There's lots of videos of people that make um like fake delivery boxes that they blow up. They like explode like blue paint. The bikes. Yeah, the bike stealing ones. The bike stealing ones are of course there's going to be people that get mad cuz they get hurt, but hey, play stupid games. These are these are the good things on the internet. I feel like these are the good things. I mean, I feel bad when it's like some like, you know, cuz sometimes you'll see like some some like homeless dude that looks like he's not well, you know, like I can feel bad for that.

Sure. But like the guys like the people that drive up, they get out of the car and take your package. Yeah. package. Yeah. package. Yeah. And then, you know, they they rigged the package. Like one dude rigged this package to blow up uh fart spray and blue paint blue paint blue paint and it like waits till they're in the car. So the car will start take off and you see you see you see but if there's no like there's no consequences or deterrent you invite it and this is what we see all the time living in the state.

We see what that result is and it just becomes a number that is insane and now it's like oh we can't do anything about it. Well, you know, we invited him. Well, that this this quarter hunter thing is so cool to me. And probably our listeners that are in other states are like, "Who cares? It's not that big of a deal." In California, this is a big deal. Like, if in California, everybody who's probably listening who knows somebody, you know somebody, you probably know a landlord.

Yeah, my sister-in-law happens. Yes. Our friend, we've had like almost everybody I know that owns property in California has had a The guy The guy wouldn't leave. It took him like eight months to get him out. And when he left, he put holes in the wall, destroyed the the the whole place when he left. Tons of money. What? It's like It's unbelievable. Did you share this squatter hunter thing to him? Oh, you did it. Oh, I was It was a long time ago. So what? You know, he'll appreciate it.

Sensitive. Sensitive. Sensitive. He still talks salt in the wound on that. that. that. Yeah. No, it's that's what I said. So like people maybe in the rest of the country is like, "What? That's ridiculous." But here it's like it's a hard thing to deal with. Dude, I got to bring something up to you guys. So, you guys remember we've talked about this on the show a few times. I'm going to pull it up. I've talked about this this it's a it's a drug. It's a compound that bodybuilders that I would say the most courageous bodybuilders bodybuilders bodybuilders dynamite.

dynamite. dynamite. Yeah. So, it's called DNP and it's it's it's in dynamite, right? It's it's used in making explosives. And what it is is and I I know the story behind it, by the way. I'll pull it up for you. So, what it does is it it's called a mitochondrial uncoupler. It cooks your inside. Well, so so here's what happens when when when and I don't know the whole process, but when your body's producing energy, if it becomes inefficient, you get leaks of energy and this causes you to burn more calories.

So, mitochondrial uncoupling means that some of this energy just gets turned into heat and so as a result, you just your metabolism speeds up. Sure. Sure. Sure. Okay. So they discovered this uh in uh the 1930s. the 1930s. the 1930s. So I So I'll read it for you. During World War I, this is when they discovered this. Munitions workers in France lost weight and had high temperatures. Some died. Oh wow. This is how they figured it out. They This is how they figured out. Scientists discovered uh that this was caused by a chemical at the factory called DMP.

So what it does, it disrupts mitochondrial energy production and increases metabolism. By the way, you look great. By the way, I've just been making shells. Hey, listen. Hey, listen. Hey, listen. Do my job. Listen, this is this is I love this classic. classic. classic. Yeah, this is classic bodybuilders. No, no, but here's here's what's funny. Only a few died. Yeah, but everybody else got shredded. Got shredded. Got shredded. Got shredded. Here's what's funny about this. People like cancer. like cancer. like cancer. So, this happened in in during World War I, right?

In the 1930s, it got it got uh it was one of the first weight loss drugs that were marketed. So, you can actually buy DMP. Oh, you could buy it in the 1930s. Wow. It was remarkably effective but was eventually banned eventually banned eventually banned to its severe toxic uh effects because well listen the dose that makes you lose weight and the lethal dose really close. That's what they say dude right on that line. The reason why I'm reading this is because scientists are studying because a DMP a DMP a DMP I don't want to encourage anybody because I look I'll tell you guys I know a pro bodybuilder who's used DMP.

So do I. You know who he is. Yes I do too. He told me the story of of when he did it. He goes, "Bro," he goes, "I took it. I started sweating like crazy." He goes, "My sweat was yellow." He's like, "My made my sheets turn yellow." He goes, "I had like a fever." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And he goes, "And it was it was crazy. And your workout performance sucks. You feel like like you hold a little water, so you can't even tell you're getting leaner.

Then you come off of it." He's like, "You're suddenly shredded." I'm like, "Did you do it again?" He goes, "No, dude. I think I almost died." But so sounds horrible. So scientists are studying DMP because they're like, "Okay, is there a way we could create drugs that do something similar, but that are safe?" And and what they're doing, that's exactly what they're doing. So researchers have developed experimental compounds that do kind of what DMP does, but is safe. Now, they obviously it's not it's not approved yet, yet, yet, quote unquote.

Yeah. But this is like a legit metall, you know, fat burners always say speed up your metabolism. They don't do that. No. No. No. But this actually would. So do you guys ever worry about like okay because there's all these crazy stories the 50s the 30s like all these things that we were giving people and taking and doing like that like like what is today like what like what what is that today like there's like historically if you went back back back there was something and now we're like what did they do exactly there's there has been something always in the market that we were mass selling to people and promoting as this thing.

thing. thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Doesn't it make your wheels turn and go like that's floating around in the market right now? Well, Doug, look up how many how many approved drugs get taken off the market every year? It's a lot. So, they've gone through the process, they've been approved, they've passed all the trials, and then they get taken off because then we discover that they do something else. There's there's a lot. lot. lot. I mean, I would say I mean, we looked up and what was it?

75% of all advertises, so all commercials that you hear and see are pharmaceuticals. I would make the argument the uh 15 of the 25% make up the lawsuits on all the the commercials of the have you been affected by this whatever call this law firm they're they're 15 to the 25 those commercials crack me up it's it's the only reason why I know what methyloma is because those commercials you ever heard that I just remember there's like messyloma commercials all the time if you suffer from let's see uh relatively few hundreds that recall re okay there's hundreds of recalls happen every year for various reasons uh yeah so few are permanently withdrawn that's so funny Doug give me the number because AI is giving us they don't always give you an exact number um number um number um recalls withdrawals 30 to a thousand annually right there that was a number yeah so 4% of all drugs approved uh in 5year periods were are completely withdrawn withdrawn withdrawn which considering our um extensive trial just to get through cuz it cost billion dollars, you know, on average to take a drug from conception to market and all the testing and stuff.

and stuff. and stuff. Yeah. 4% is actually pretty high. That is high because if you're taking you're part of that one uh 4%, you know, and you're taking this drug and it's not good. And that's not to say that the ones that stick around don't have all kinds of other crazy stuff that they just accept. Yeah. Then look at the the drug company's history in in wartime and like how they've actually like weaponized a lot of these drugs that we all use and protect and you know, they just they gassed people to death.

Look up look up uh the uh 1900's cough syrup ingredients. I just want you guys to see. Have you guys ever seen these before? before? before? What cough syrup was? Bro, they give it to kids. They give to kids, bro. You know what's in it? in it? in it? No. No. No. Heroin. Heroin. Heroin. Yeah, dude. Yeah, dude. Yeah, dude. In cough syrup. Yeah. For kids. Like legit. Like legit. Like legit. This is in the early 1900s. Yeah. Yeah. Look, look at morphine, cannabis, chloroform. Alcohol.

Alcohol. Alcohol. Cannabis, chlorophyll, and alcohol. If you got caught with that all in your car, they would kill somebody. Yeah. Yeah. But it works. Timmy fell right asleep. Cosby is gone. Oh, my son's got this terrible cough. Doctor, he'll sleep tonight. Trust me. Take this, Timmy. My son was uh hiccuping last night when in bed before you go to bed. He goes, "Daddy, I can't stop my hiccups." I said, "Just hold your breath." And then he he's held his breath for a few seconds. He stopped.

I'll die if I keep doing that. doing that. doing that. I said, "Well, don't hold it that long, bro. Don't hold it that long, bro." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that Wasn't that Don't some kids do that if they don't get their way. They hold their breath. I've never known a kid to do that, but I've I've seen like like like So, I have a bad habit that my son has. It's And Katrina hates it. And she used to hate it when I used to do it.

So, see, and she used to always call me out. When you're arguing with Katrina, you hold your breath. No. Uh when I focus, when I really focus or I'm really into something, I'll hold and then also I'll go go go You hear me? I do that, too. Yeah. So, I think that's normal. Normal. Normal. Normal. Yeah. Okay. That's cool. But there's I think some kids it's a thing they'll hold their breath till they get their way and some maybe you could look it up Doug and some kids will make themselves pass out and so they get their way because you don't want your kid to pass out.

out. out. You know what the recommendation dedication that kid has? Yeah, that's a that's a real stuff. You know what the recommendation is? I bet that kid does something special when he told Let him let him pass out. Yeah. Okay, just watch. Is that a real thing? I mean, is that a real thing? I mean, I've heard of a kid doing that, but is that like a Is that to get their way? Put to get their way. I mean, it's a form of a temper tantrum, right?

is between that or I mean I I Hey, I probably I would take that over attention dance. I know, right? Hold your breath. Well, you're looking purple. I'll wake you up when you're done. Get some air. some air. some air. Yeah. At least you're at least you're quiet over there. So, some kids hold their breath during tantrums or strong emotions. It's usually not involuntary reflex. Oh. Oh, interesting. Oh, interesting. Oh, interesting. Called a breath holding spell. Wow. I didn't know that. Oh, that's interesting. So, it's not intentional.

intentional. intentional. Sometimes passing out briefly. Wow. But generally harmless. turning blue, man. [ __ ] Dude, let me tell you. Can you Can you guys recall the the most angry or most the biggest tantrum that your kids ever thrown and what it was for or why? Can you can you recall it or does it does it all just get blurred into into like the tantrums? Tantrums are pretty I feel like there's a lot of parents have a story where it's like, "Oh man, that time I took my kid to the grocery store and they didn't get that thing and it was so embarrassing." Like, have you had had had a party I had to remove?

Like Oh, at a party? Yeah, they didn't want to leave. Well, it was mainly Ethan, but we Yeah, he didn't want to leave and it was bad. was bad. was bad. Was it like a kids party or something? What kind of party? Uh, there was kids there that was friend I was actually a party with like a bunch of people and I had to like Yeah, it was bad. I had to like we had to go off and and deal with it. That's where you like grab your pick up your kid and like they were just freaking out.

freaking out. freaking out. Yeah. I didn't say anything. It was just like mechanical like we're gone. we're gone. we're gone. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I actually Courtney is still there. She's like, and I'm like, we're out of here. here. here. I'm not doing this. I I wasn't there for this one, but my daughter, she my my older daughter, she was at the store with her mom, wanted to buy something. Her mom said no. Threw a total fit total fit total fit and somehow knocked her own tooth out.

Oh, Oh, Oh, yeah. yeah. yeah. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Because she's like freaking out and and her mom was like, "All right, whatever. You freak out over there." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, trying to kind of let her do and she turns back around, there's blood. She's like, "What?" And she had like knocked out a tooth. Oh wow. Oh wow. Oh wow. Because she must have like Yeah. Oh wow. Oh that's crazy. Kids are I mean you know tantrums are interesting. interesting. interesting. You know it's funny.

There was this uh I saw this woman communicating um like what to do with your kid. Maybe it was even on our show. Was it on our show we interviewed? But anyway, they said they said they said uh that they're so disregulated they can't even control what they're doing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so trying to talk to them or force them to do anything like a waste of time. You just got to be with them. Yeah, you let it work through the feelings. feelings. feelings. Let let that come down and then go and Yeah.

Yeah. You know, I you I always talk about how I have like I have the opposite problem, right? Cuz my son's never thrown a tantrum, anything like that. But then Katrina, and this happens to Katrina more than me cuz of course he challenges her more, right? Cuz she's mom and you know, she was telling me she was trying to get him to, you know, put his clothes on, get and he was just just not wanting to do it. No. And dragging his feet. And she's being a little Max, we have to go this and that.

And then he'll start crying. I don't like the way you're talking to me. You're raising your voice. And she's like, I am not raising my voice to you. She's not even she's not doing any of that. But he's so the other way that like even any sort of direct stern like like direction is enough for him to be like, "Yeah, you're yelling at me." Yeah. You're It's like no I'm not. You do not see. It's funny you said that. I just pulled this I just saved uh something on that.

So this was this was an article on some studies on kids and their moms and it says that children save their hardest emotions for their mothers because their nervous systems change around mom. Brain scans show stress circuits in a child's brain deactivate five times faster when re reunited with their mother. So when the stress comes down, they feel safe. The feelings all You remember that stat? Remember the stat I brought up, right? Like it blew my mind when it when they brought up uh grandma, teacher, stranger, friend, dad, mom, mom, mom, who are they most likely to uh throw tantrums, push back, do all those things?

And mom was like 97% more likely. So like, but it was because they feel safest. Yes. And part of a kid learning what they can and can't do, the boundaries, pushing those limits is when they feel their safest. By the way, I got another side to this because what the world will constantly therapy will communicate this all the time. There's like this belief that every feeling must be expressed. Don't hold it in. You got to say everything, whatever. There's some truth to it, but it's not all true.

They also show in studies that when kids are told to, hey, control yourself. Keep it in. especially boys that the brain circuitry and changes and allows them to learn how to control themselves more. So it's actually a skill. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So dad So dad So dad stoicism stoicism stoicism helps dad helps kids calm down. Like you got to learn how to control that. Mom allows a safety for them to express those things. You can't have one without the other. If it's just one, you got a kid that just the latter part doesn't get brought up enough enough enough because look, real life real life means you got you got to hold your tongue.

If I just told you every feeling I had when I was mad, I wouldn't have a good relationship with anybody. I got to learn how especially I mean, especially if you're young. We Katrina and I talk about this all the time. There there's uh there's appropriate times for him to do and there's inappropriate times. Like for example, not getting your way is not appropriate time to be crying or it's like, hey, this is because you didn't get a toy or you didn't get to do this.

Like you don't you don't cry. That doesn't help you get that. That's not an appropriate feeling that like sometimes we don't do that. Sometimes we do. That's and then then there's other times he falls down or he's embarrassed or there's these things like hey this this is a normal feeling we're having. We work through those feelings, you feel those feelings like or you're frustrated, you're angry cuz you couldn't get something done. These are normal but like doing it on things that like you like we we'll stop that and teach him how to self-regulate that emotion when you're when it's it's it's not there's a balance.

There's absolutely such a balance. It's not all the time. It's not like feel it. It's okay. okay. okay. No. No. No. No. Because if you just have become an adult and you freaking lose your mind and your emotions. That's right. Ugly and you imagine being in a meeting with a bunch of adults and someone's having a bad day and they freak out and whatever. You become unhirable. Get out. Get out of here. But on the flip side, if you look, if you have a household where you can never express anything, that militaristic like whatever that's repressed, that causes lots of problem.

On the other hand, if you have a household where everybody's unhinged all the time because they get to express, that's also not good. You got to have both. So, it's like when you read the data on moms and dads, it's it's it's really amazing how they compliment each other. You got to have both of those. Yeah. And again, this is why it's it's always good to have differences like and we got to highlight the fact that that's important and we need that. We don't need to be homogenized like the same like Yeah.

men and women are not the same. It's a it's a beautiful thing to watch unfold the teamwork when it's when it's played that way. It is so like 99% of the time like Katrina doesn't get frustrated with it. He stretches those boundaries. she but every once in a while dad comes over and goes like hey that's not okay and that shuts it down like like let is literally all I have to do because we don't know I don't normally do that and that that ability to play off of each other like there's one otherwise mom lets him feel his feelings and express what he's feeling going through this and that then there's other times where it's just like no we're getting ready for school we have to be off time dad can come and be like hey you be you need to be ready in 2 minutes get going listen to your mother okay okay okay but I do a way to play off of each But I find it interesting too cuz it's like it's so beneficial to hold your tongue, control what you're about to say because you're pissed off or because you're whatever.

Uh there's value to that, but often times what's communicated is yeah, express yourself. Don't hold it in. Do you know what happens when you talk through anger? Nothing good. You know why? It's like social media, bro. Everything has It's crazy. But then you still need to express yourself. Sure you do, but you got to calm yourself down to express. It's the way we consume content. It's the extremes get the attention and get the likes, get the shares, the conversation. The conversation is about the extremes. It's either one extreme or the other.

And really, it's somewhere in the middle of that. It's like it's like, yeah, you you want your kid to be able to express his feelings. You want your kid to be able to articulate that. You want them to to feel their feelings, but you also don't want them to run over you and just like that they get away. That's how they then they manipulate and they use that way. So then so then there's a way you never learn how to control and then and then as a dad you do need to be stern sometimes but being stern is not yelling or losing control or because that actually is the opposite right that's what I mean so it's like we always speak in these absolutes or these extremes when there's this I mean again I think it's a it's a beautiful delicate dance between two different sexes that do two different things really really well and when when done appropriately as a team it's a beautiful thing it but it doesn't get communicated It's a better result.

Yeah, result. Yeah, result. Yeah, it is a totally better result. All right, I got some recent studies on chilleit. I didn't know they did uh there's so many recent studies on it which is uh pretty cool. So something that's been around for so long. long. long. Yeah. So this is cool. So uh there's a 2024 study done on chiligit. They found that it chiligit reduced amaloid beta induced cytotoxicity induced cytotoxicity induced cytotoxicity in uh certain cells in the brain. In other words, probably good for brain health.

So neuro there's some neuroprotective effects neuroprotective effects neuroprotective effects explain cytotoxicity explain toxicity to the cells. So beta amalloid plaques can be toxic to the cells of the brain. Uh I don't think it causes there's some there's some debate as to whether it causes Alzheimer's or Yes. Right. Right. So it helps protect the cells the cells the cells and that would what would fall under that category? Are you talking about like microplastics and things like that? Like what would fall anything that can make the brain inflame?

So high high blood sugar microplastics chemical. Yep. Oh, even bad sleep, that kind of stuff. Okay, interesting. Okay, interesting. Okay, interesting. There's a study in 2025, this was a a a review of clinical trials that showed that uh 250 milligrams twice a day for 90 days increased total testosterone, free testosterone, sperm count, ready for this, by 61%. Motility by 17% and morphology, so the the shapes of the sperm by 18.9 uh%. What does the shapes of your sperm help? Oh, so you more torpedo like? Oh, so you can look at sperm under a microscope and you could have enough of them, but then they als they don't have good morphology.

So they're deformities. Yes. And so it causes infertility. Oh, Oh, Oh, yeah. So there's a few different ways you can have infertility with your sperm. One of that you don't have enough. enough. enough. The other one is that they don't swim well, the way that they're shaped. So they look at all that all that stuff. Um bone healing deforms. deforms. deforms. They looked at us. There was a 2020 I'm having I'm not past that either. I know he's moving on, but I'm like I'm like it's wild that we get under a microscope and we like can look at the different types of little swimmers that you have and like sorry guy you got a lot but they're kind of deformed like a square.

Those aren't going anywhere. going anywhere. going anywhere. Yeah. Yeah. They're the not so good at the freestyle strokes. A lot of backstroke can go in with your guys. I'm trying crashing into each other. They swim in the wrong way. Yeah. In 2020, there was a 2022 randomized double blind placeboc control trial that examined chiligit's effects on bone health in post-menopausal women with osteopenia. So 60 participants got 250 or 500 milligrams of chiligit extract daily for 48 weeks. There was a dose dependent preservation of bone mineral density in the lumbar spine uh along with reduced oxidative stress and inflammation.

So uh by itself helped with bone uh strengthening. There's another study there, but I have so many. I'll do I'll just do a couple of them one. Physical performance trials reviewed uh in 2025 showed that for eight weeks, the 250 to 500 milligrams a day enhanced muscle adaptation, reduce fatig fatigue, and boost collagen synthesis. Ready for this? Up to 84%. With benefits of skin health and wound healing. This is a great Before don't do any more. I mean, I'm I'm You're still I'm still on the first one just because uh sperm.

Well, yeah. Because Okay. So h how does that compare to things like uh tongue cat ali and ashwagandha other like traditional other supplements that I don't know it's a good question um what what to me what blows me away most about shili is all the stuff that it does does does it does a lot of things I don't know what the exact I don't know what the exact numbers are with tonkatalie and I know it helps with with fertility in men yeah it's like are we deficient like cuz it's it's one of those things like is this something you find in in really good soil or or like like where else would you get something similar that would have all these like when you naturally eat this weird tar on a tree in a random place.

No, it's literally it's it's organic material that has been broken down over long periods of time. It oozes out of rocks rocks rocks in the Himalayan mountains. Yeah, that's it's so random like it Well, so what Organifi did is Doug, what's their dose in their serving? It's there's a bag right there on there and I think it's efficacious dose, right? How much prima is in there? 250 milligrams. 250 milligrams. 250 milligrams. Perfect. So there you go. So you could take that dose or double it and that's what the studies show.

Uh now in their gummies which they don't taste bad at all. It tastes good and it's easy to take. Uh the thing with chilleit though is you can get crappy chili or you can get fake chille. I mean that's the prima is the source. So if organifi uses prima, primma supplies to other people too. So if you want good chille, go with organify or look for well sourced chille. But all the studies you count them all together. Like this is a pretty remarkable. It's a lot of benefit.

But I mean what trips me out is who's the first person to eat this? I was just thinking the same thing. I'm like and then how how long do you have to do that and within a family for like people to pass it down is like hey this is working. I noticed something like that's that's that's you know it's and I've heard theories and of course this gets a little bizarre as you get into it because you think that like the the trial and error part of that must have been like okay you know Jim died cuz he ate this and then you know and they all kind of like talk amongst but amongst but amongst but uh there was some theory that a lot of these like psychedelics like mushrooms like it it sort of gives them some sort of insight and ideas with like things to eat.

Yeah. Which has been the theory uh in terms of advancement, but I haven't had enough to get that. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, I know. Hippies aren't inventing a lot of stuff right now. This is interesting. On Chiligit, uh they observed animals in the mountains. Oh, that's of course. So, they noticed large white monkeys migrating to higher altitudes each summer to eat a specific black tarlite substance that oozed from the rock crevices. Doug, crevices. Doug, crevices. Doug, the monkeys displayed great vitality and a speedy recovery from injuries which piqu their curiosity.

By the way, great vitality means the monkeys were having a lot of fun. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's That means dude, those monkeys are going nuts. Yeah, maybe we should try that. Maybe give that to my wife when she's sleeping. That's what every every caveman said right there. Every caveman watch. That's how they discover horn. Yeah, that Yeah, that Yeah, that sneakorn horn goat weed. Is it Is it Is it goats would eat it and then they just go fornicate like crazy. And so farmers were like, were like, were like, you know what?

I don't know why that I didn't know why that didn't dawn on me. That is probably how probably a a large percentage of all is observing animals first is seeing that they they're acting We're watching them and their behavior. They eat it. They don't die. You see some sort of note. You pick up like, "Man, they're having way more sex this week than they were the previous week." And you're like, "That's interesting." This is before cell phones and stuff. Like, you're just bored. Watching monkeys. Watching monkeys.

Come on, dude. Hey, bro. They were having sex. We had TV. We still Hey, everybody in this room watches the Nature Channel. You know what I'm saying? Like, hey, let me tell you guys, we went to Where were we? we? we? This guy's going crazy. We were at a zoo. Uh, Aurelius was like three and uh they had tortoises and we just must have timed it right, bro. One tor like big giant tortoises, the the big ones. One got on the other one's back and started to mate with it.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, he's three. He doesn't know what's going on. So, we're walking over there and I'm like, uh-oh. Piggyback ride. Piggyback ride. Piggyback ride. And the and the tortoise went was making noises, dude. noises, dude. noises, dude. So, he's laughing. I don't know if I even heard a He's copying them. He's like He's like, "But listen, uh, what are they doing?" I'm like, "I think they're wrestling. I don't know what's going on. He still talks about it today. What age? Okay. What age is that?

So, so I'm aware because right now that's still what it's wrestling, right? That mom and dad do at night. Like I don't know what age is age is age is hide that, bro. What are you doing? Yeah. No, of course you hide that for as long as long as long as What are you guys doing in there? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Screw up the white noise. What's that noise happening in there, dude? I don't know. Joy Mode is a sciencebacked formula that is packed with citrine, arganine, ginsing, vitamin C in efficacious doses to support peak performance.

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Look, it's roundt based. So you can hear Adam, Justin, and myself teaching you how to build a better business, get more leads, close more deals, close bigger deals, and be more effective trainers. By the way, our course is nationally recognized. In fact, it gives you 1.9 CEUs with or for your NASM certification. Find out more at mindpunfitnesscoaching.com. Our first caller is John from Louisiana. What's up, man? How you doing, John? Y'all, how's it going? Good. Good. Good. Good, dude. I help you. Good. Good. I guess first I want to say, man, I just uh I really appreciate the way that y'all can blend science with experience and then dumb it down for us average people.

Y'all do it in such a way, man, that it's changing people's lives. I'll jump straight into my email. Um Um Um I'll just read it to you. I'm a 52-year-old male, 5'4, currently weigh 152 lbs, and I'm at about 8% body fat. I resistance train 5 days a week. I walk 30 to 45 minutes, about three times a week, and my diet's pretty consistent, around 2,400 calories a day. And I only drink alcohol occasionally, maybe a few times a month. So, my goal is to build more muscle, but I took some uh some surveys.

One I think was a McDonald and one was a butt survey, and they're saying that I'm around 90% of my genetic potential. So my question is, am I really genetically limited to gaining more ma more mass or is it realistic to add another 10 or 15 pounds of lean muscle mass over the next couple of years at my age and my current condition? condition? condition? Yeah. Well, how long you been strength training for? training for? training for? Um, off and on. Since I was in my 20s, but I've gotten serious since I turned 50.

I actually started competing as a men's physique competitor. Oh, good for you. Are you uh on any hormones? All natural? I'm all natural right now. Good deal. Good deal. Good deal. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. You said right now, have you used uh performance enhancers in the past? I have. Yes, sir. Okay. So, so that changes things a bit. U now what I what I will say is it'll be hard to tell if you're at your, you know, quote unquote genetic potential if you're if you're sitting at 8% body fat trying to build.

Um most guys are not. it's gonna they're gonna have a tough time building and with a body fat percentage below, you know, 11 or even 12%. 12%. 12%. Especially without any extra hormones. Yeah. Trying to do it naturally would be really tough that low. Yeah. Now, when you were using performance-enhancing performance-enhancing performance-enhancing uh drugs, do you do you know what your lean body mass was then versus now? Uh I mean, when I got on stage, I was a little below four% body fat. Okay. And but do you know what your lean body mass was reaching in the offseason with that or Yeah.

when you were bulking. Yeah, when you were bulking. So, it's hard to say, dude. Uh, it's really hard to say cuz you're already I mean, you're obviously jacked and ripped and and experienced. Uh, but you know, here and you're also, you know, 52, so that might change things a little bit, but to be honest with you, I don't know, man. 8% I'd say go on a bulk 24,00 I'll tell you this much. You're not going to gain any muscle at, you know, 2400 calories. Uh, we're going to have to get you over 3,000 and then see what happens there.

Yeah. Yeah. Not to mention kind of what I was hoping you would say. I was just scared to do it on my own cuz I didn't want to gain any fat. I'm kind of picky about the way I look. You got to have you're going to have to gain some fat to gain some muscle at 8%. You don't have to gain a lot of fat. But not to mention, John, you have the you have the tools and the knowledge how to get right back down anyways.

It it's more psychological. You know what I'm saying? Like even if you went for to up to as high as 12 or 13% body fat, body fat, body fat, a guy with your experience and and muscle memory, I mean going right back down and getting lean would be relatively easy. Um you know from that and Sal's point uh you'll just you'll build much better north of 10%. sub 10% trying to build especially naturally especially older just and also towards whether you're at 90% 80% 70% of your your peak that's I think those tests are hard to be really truly accurate but even at even at 90% you got another 10% I mean 10% 10% on 152 pound that's 15 pounds so I mean there that even that test is saying that there's potential for 15 more pounds of muscle to be built so that's that's still that's and you said, "Can I get another 10 lbs?" So, absolutely, B even based off of that, you can, but it's going to be tough to do that uh natural under 10% body fat, only eating 1,200 calories.

So, my suggestion is, you know, go on a nice aggressive bulk, 3,000 calories plus, and allow yourself to go up a little bit. bit. bit. And just based off what you're saying, I already know, you know, you go up to 3,00 3200 calories, it'll be clean. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're probably not going to eat garbage. garbage. garbage. Yeah. to make that happen. Stay away from anything processed. It's all clean. all clean. all clean. Yeah. Yeah. Good, bro. Here's the two things I would look at. I would monitor uh for this.

I'd monitor strength and body fat percentage. And that'll tell you if you're going too far or not. So, if I'm in your shoes and I'm trying to gain, here's what I'm going to look at. I'm going to look at am I getting stronger in the gym? And then, is my body fat percentage going up? Now, my body I'm going to expect my body fat percentage to go up. In fact, I'm going to expect it to go up until I get to about 11 or 12%. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Once it starts to go above that, if I get up to oh, I'm at 12 and a half 13%. Then I know the calories are a bit a bit too high. too high. too high. Yeah, you're going. So, those are the two things I'm monitoring. But I'm I but the goal is here to put it differently. If I'm getting stronger and I'm in a surplus, but my body fat percentage is sitting at 9%. And it's not going up, I got to add calories. So, that's what I mean by that.

I'm I'm I'm looking at body fat percentage to make it go up to determine whether or not my bulk is is appropriate. appropriate. appropriate. Okay, that makes sense. Because you because you did uh hormones in the past and you're not now. Have you tested to kind of see where your where your natural levels are falling right now? now? now? Yeah. Yeah, I've had uh just last week I had my blood panel done and everything's okay. I'm a little low on test. Okay. Okay. Okay. Wow. So, wait, hold on.

So, you bounced back pretty quick. Yeah. In two months. Yep. Wow. What's your Do you know what your total is at now? Total Total Total testosterone? testosterone? testosterone? Testosterone? I'm at 144, which is a little low, but I think it'll come. Wait, that's total or free? It's probably It's probably It's probably free. I'm sorry. Free. As far as I know, I don't know. Yeah, that's that's not a bad recovery after a couple months. Yeah. Yeah. So, well, I mean, yeah. Yeah. Bump the calories, dude. That that'll make the biggest difference, especially post show.

show. show. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yep. Okay. Yep. Okay. Yep. Yep. Yep. And then and then with strength training, you know, five days a week is fine. You sound like you're real experienced, experienced, experienced, but you do better off of less. You might be you might even do better with four with four with four or three. or three. or three. Or three. Yep. Mhm. Are you running are you running any maps? Do you have any of our stuff yet? Uh the only thing I've done is I've read Sal's book.

Yeah. You know, u So you get resistance revolution. It is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I don't have any uh MAPS programs. I mean I I I would personally love to see you run MAPS anabolic in a bulk. I think that you would and just and stick to that if you can and then to that if you can and then on the other days if you want to go for a walk and do mobility and do other things cuz if you like going to the gym 5 days a week I'd never tell someone not to but it's a three day a week full body routine that with a bulk I think would serve you really well.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. The most important piece of all this though for someone like you is the bulk. bulk. bulk. Yeah. Eat. Got to eat. That's right. That's right. That's right. And I have a problem with eating. I'm hardly ever satisfied after eating. I have a big Yeah. Go for it, dude. Yeah, go for it. If you're at 24, I mean, I would I would put you up to like uh I'd add a good 600 calories calories calories at least. Yeah. 3,3200 should be a good place for you to be starting at.

And just and like S said, let it let it be. Stay there and expect to go a couple percent up. You start getting beyond 12, you know, you're aggress you're bulking too fast. Then you can just pull Don't pull back crazy. Just pull it back a little bit. Yep. Yep. Yep. And uh and then the extra muscle in Yeah. I mean, you're not going to Here's what's going to happen. You'll probably get up to 10% pretty quick and then it's going to be probably hover around there for a while.

That's what I would guess as you build. I would guess the same thing. Mhm. Yep. Mhm. Yep. Mhm. Yep. I'll have Doug send over a maps anabolic from us so you can follow that. I'd love to hear you follow if I I'd love to hear you bulk follow that and then hit us back because I'd like to see what we do. Okay. Well, you have no idea how much I appreciate you sending me that mapic. Thank you very much. Yeah, you got it, man. We got you.

We got you. You just follow it, do the bulk, and then I'd love to hear back from you, John. Okay. Okay. Okay. All right. All right, dude. All right, brother. brother. brother. All right. Thank y'all. Yeah. Take it easy, man. You know what's interesting to me? Uh, which, you know, I'd leave this up to him and his doctor. Um, at 52, if he's going to run cycles, uh, why not go on TRT? Yeah. uh, why not go on TRT? Yeah. So, on cycle is a higher dose, right?

That's now I'm not advocating that. That's just, you know, competitive bodybuilding. Off cycle would be TRT rather than doing the up and downs and crazy swings. He's 52. He's probably not going to have any, you know, kids anymore. anymore. anymore. Well, that's I was I was thought the same thing, too. I thought it was interesting. And especially, too, he still has goals of continuing to build more muscle trying to do that coming off of a cycle where you're already trying to get back your normal testosterone level and build.

I mean, it's just it's just it's just But, you know, back to the body fat percentage thing, it's uh it's there's very very very few people that can really bulk really bulk really bulk in the singledigit body fat percentage. uh 99.9% of people fit, healthy, you know, doing everything right, you know, you're you're you got to get your body fat up at least to like 11. For me, like like my max bulking, like I'm getting strong and I'm not putting on too much body fat. Like that sweet spot for me is around 11 12%.

For me, and I sit leaner, so some guys is even higher. Some dudes 14 15% is their sweet spot for, you know, packing on muscle. muscle. muscle. I mean, I I don't even It's so funny when I'm in I'm in like kind of bulk mode right now. It's like I don't even care if it's as as long as it's north of 101 12. I'm like 12 15 somewhere. It doesn't even matter. It's like stay. It just it does better in that in that in that range than trying to also be really lean and do it slowly like that.

Just he'll do better if he goes up. Our next caller is Leanne from Georgia. Hi Leanne. Hi Leanne. Hi Leanne. How you doing Leanne? Hi. How are you guys? Doing good. How are you? How can we help you? I'm cold. It's cold here in Georgia. We're not used to this. Well, we're in California, so Yeah. It's still cold today, though. It's cold. It's cold over here, too. If it's below 60, we're If it's below 60, we're all freezing over here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, but anyways, um this is really cool.

I'm super excited. Um I said, as I was telling you guys, this is the uh best birthday present ever. My birthday's tomorrow. So, tomorrow. So, tomorrow. So, yes, yes, yes, I will. Thank you. So, merry Christmas, happy new year, and I'll go ahead and jump right in. Um, I have been listening to you guys for a little over a year. I started listening to you because I heard I used to listen to Mike Matthews podcast and then he stopped his podcast and I think S, you were on his podcast or maybe it was Adam.

Both of you guys. Both of us have been on there. He's good. He's a good friend of our very good friend of ours. If you liked the episode, it was probably me. probably me. probably me. Yeah. Yeah. You know, But anyways, you can't stop. I started listening to y'all. Awesome. Thank you. Um, and I listen to you guys all the time in the car, at the gym, everything. My daughter, I have a six-year-old daughter and she like has the intro memorized. It's really funny. Um, Um, Um, so I also love it when you guys talk about your kids.

Um, and I can relate to your talks about the teenagers as well because I actually am a high school science teacher. So, like hanging out with uh 15 year olds is kind of my thing. I love it. They are fun. Um, but I'll go ahead and jump into my question. I'll be 38 tomorrow. So, I said in my email that I'm a 38-year-old. I've been lifting for the last two years consistently. I actually started doing one of Mike Matthews programs on the thinner leaner stronger on New Year's Eve two years ago.

So that's when I started to really get into lifting and consistently lift five days a week with the compound lifts, squat, bench, deadlift, and starting to use heavy weights. When I first started, I don't remember exactly what my numbers were, but I know that I deadlifted one day a couple weeks after I started and tried to do 135 pounds and I threw out my back. It was terrible. So now, um, this past Thanksgiving, my sister-in-law is a powerlifter. So this past Thanksgiving, we did a mock powerlifting meet on Thanksgiving Day, and I did 500 lb total for all three lifts, and my deadlift was 225.

225. 225. Wow. So incredible. So, I've increased it quite a bit over almost 100 pounds. At least at least 100 pounds in two years, which I think is pretty good considering my size. I'm really small. Um, I am only 51 and I do have low bone density. So, it's sometimes I wonder if I'm lifting too much for um where my bone density is. And that is due to a history of history of history of being small my whole life. Some of it's family history. And then I do I will disclose that I have a history of um an eating disorder eating disorder eating disorder that I've struggled with since at various points in my life since I was really like 12, I guess.

Um so it's it's kind of a lifetime thing to ju to really just kind of keep it at bay and keep it away. Um, so now I feel like I've kind of stalled out on progress as far as getting my lifts any higher. Um, particularly my upper body, my bench press. I still cannot bench 100 lbs. I can, my bench was 95 lbs for that competition. So, my deadlift saved me. Um, but I am wondering, you know, as far as my next fitness goals, that 500 lb was a big milestone and I'm not sure where to go from here.

I was thinking about the idea of doing a real powerlifting meet, but I'm so small that I don't know if there would be anyone to compete against. Um, which is worthless then. And then the other question I have is that I bought the map super bundle um nine months to phase expert exercise programming designed by the three of you. Um, so I had to buy it. I bought it on the Black Friday sale and I just opened it and started looking through it. um this past week because I was doing this other program.

I finished up with my year-long coaching commitment with um my Legion coach and I figured that I would start looking at it now, but it's not really what I expected. I did not realize MAPS anabolic was only two or maybe three days a week if you did the advanced version. And um I like working out. I like to be in the gym 5 days a week. I have time to do it. And so I'm looking for advice on how to modify that so that I can get it to be more of a 5day a week program um with slightly shorter workouts as well as um you know uh how to progress that program to get the most um strength gains possible.

Yeah, great question. I appreciate your call and your honesty and you got a great energy. Yeah. Uh so yeah, I really appreciate you calling. Um so this is going to be uh pretty simple uh for someone like you. Uh you mentioned simple to hard. Yes. So there's a few things you mentioned um that are going to point me in just strongly in a direction. So I'll start with the really good news. Uh you have really good genetics. You're really strong. strong. strong. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Like really strong for your size. Even your bench press, by the way. 95 lb bench press. Yeah. Yeah. You're you're lifting for 51. you're lifting a a good amount of weight in all your lifts. So, you're really really strong. Um, and the low bone density is a 100% a result of the uh the low food intake, low low caloric intake. Uh, pro definitely from the past, but also probably now as well. I'll guess your calories are probably still too low. Um, and so that's where it's going to point me.

It's going to point to food intake. So, here's what happens when you strength train and your food intake or your caloric intake is too low. You still get osteopenia. And we see it all the time in the fitness space. All the time. Uh young women who strength train, compete, uh you know, they're always really really lean and they just their bone density just continues to go down and they get and they freak out. They don't know how, but I'm lifting weights and it's like you're sending the signal, but we're just not feeding the body enough.

And so that's the direction uh we're going to point you as far as workouts concerned. Uh I mean Mike Matthews has great programming. Maps anabolic we could modify you could do. Yeah. That being said though s to your point with lower calories a a a lower volume of program is also going to benefit you more. That's right. That's right. That's right. In that condition, right? Because because we are we don't have enough calories. calories. calories. A higher volume program is also working against us, not for us.

Let me ask you this. You worked with a coach. I I love Mike Matthews. He's always got great stuff. Uh I'm assuming when you worked with your coach, was this a constant conversation with them? Was the food intake and calories? Yeah, it was. And um she had me tracking um and so now that my um year is up with her, I have hired an online um like through Nourish. It's I don't know if you're familiar with that program, but it's an online program with dieticians. Um so I've hired a dietitian.

I met with her once. Um, and they both, you know, they're having me track. So, I am tracking my food, so I know where my macros are and I know or I'm I have at least an approximation. I'm not always the best about uh tracking it. And I know that there's a tendency with my history to overestimate. So, I probably do that a bit, but o overall like typically my calories fall around 2,000 calories and then u my protein is like somewhere between 100 and 110.

Do you still think that's too low? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. 100%. Especially how strong and how much muscle that you have on The bone density will tell me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. Yeah, the bone density would tell me 100%. And your past. Okay. Okay. Okay. And I know while I'm talking to you, if if you don't mind me being direct, is that okay if I'm a little direct? Yeah, of course. I can I know that's why I like you guys. I I I know as I'm talking to you and you're hearing me talk about food uh you it's like you're freezing a little bit and I know that this is like I'm touching on something that's difficult and I get it because uh this is a challenge for me as well just in a different direction.

Uh so it's like when someone tells me the thing that I know but I don't want to do uh you know I I make the same face that you made which is like uh tell me about the workout let's not touch that one area that is difficult. Yeah. Um, I guess I I feel like I'm and I know you hear this all the time. I feel like I'm eating a lot. And I I eat pretty clean, like probably 80% of the time. It's a lot of vegetables, fruits, um, you know, whole milk, yogurts, stuff like that.

Um, and I do I try and throw the junk food on top of that, the cookies. cookies. cookies. Let me let me stop you. Let me stop you. You can't trust your feelings. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Your feelings are wrong. Yeah. If you trusted your feelings 20 years, you're going to go Yeah. This is you're you're we tell people listen to your body. body. body. When when I'm dealing with somebody who's got dysfunctional relationship to exercise and diet, you don't listen to your body. your body. your body.

It's So, if you eat appropriately, it's going to feel uncomfortable. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It does. It really does. Like, when I track my food and I've eaten a 500 calorie dinner, I'm like, I am stuffed. I don't know if I could I don't know how I could possibly eat anymore. Yes. So, you're it's going to be uncomfortable and we have to completely change your relationship uh to eating, which means for a while it's going to be very foreign. It's going to be very uncomfortable and you're not going to like it.

You're not going to like this process. Uh it's be very uncomfortable for a while. So, you cannot trust. So, a coach is a good idea, but what they're going to do is, you know, you following what they do with you, uh, is going to be the hard part. Not the tracking, not the awareness. Um, you know, I'm not worried about that. I know you could, you're going to make a great case, which is why I cut you off because you were making a great case. I eat healthy.

I throw in junk food. Uh, but that's that. Yeah, I'm not I'm not concerned with that. I'm concerned with is we got to get your bone density up. And we got to get your body fat percentage up. And I know I just scared the hell out of you, but your body fat percentage is too low for your bone density go up. We got to get your body fat percentage to 20% at least. Do you know where you're sitting? It's not there. No. Um I have the only way the DEXA scan that I got did not do body fat percent like the it was only phone because my doctor ordered it.

Um, so I don't know exactly, but I would guess maybe somewhere around like 16. Yeah. Yeah. You got to get it up to 20. The And that's like where it's been for a long time, I think. Yeah. Now, here's what's going to h here's what'll happen if you if you follow my advice and if you're, by the way, way, way, if you're willing to add another coach to your arsenal, um, we have coaches here that work really well with what we're dealing with. And what they could do is they could also work in conjunction with your dietitian.

So yeah, and more just the support and guidance and trust and you know because you're not going to be able to trust yourself through this process. But here's what it's going to feel like. Uncomfortable. I'm stuffed. I'm full. Oh my god, I'm getting big. And then you're going to be like, whoa, I'm strong. This isn't as scary as I thought. I feel good. I'm feeling different. My hair looks different. My skin looks different. My energy is starting to feel different. This is foreign. What's going on?

Oh no, I'm too big. Oh no, I feel good. And you're going to go back and forth, back and forth for a little while until we develop this new relationship with the whole process. But we have to go in that direction. direction. direction. Yeah. And in the past, it's been really hard because I've never had like when I've done treatment in the past, it's always been all about the food and there's never been any exercise component like with with it. And so I need help with both of them together um at the same time because it's like once you get the food then or it's I don't know they both I think they both have to happen at the same time.

You're 100% right. You're none of the programs do that. No no because they're just focusing on the nutrition side. The beautiful side when you have somebody who does both it and it's it's going to be much easier for you because you actually enjoy getting strong. So you're gonna see that and so that's one of the that's such a silver that's such an awesome like it's good like S's saying the the food part is going to be hard and you're going to go back and forth struggle but the thing that you'll be able to lean on is like oh [ __ ] my bench press went up oh [ __ ] my dead performance and so and so that part of you will be able to lean and focus on that and not so much of the food you just trust your coach of like keep eating this I want you to do that stay stay the course how's the lifts going and that's what like if you if I'm coaching you that's what we're talking about I'm talking more about the lifts you just you trust me, you eat what I tell you to eat, but let's talk about your lifts.

Let's talk about how you feel and and keep you focused on that. And that's it's so much more reassuring for a client that's working through what you're working through right now. So, Lean, just again, just to stay, you know, direct because this is a call and if I were coaching long term, the conversations would sound a little different. So, I apologize ahead of time. time. time. No, that's okay. But for people watching, the root of this, a lot of people think it's body image, but it's actually control, which I know you already know that.

So the solution is to relinquish control. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, that's the solution. The solution is to give it to your coach and then just do what they say and then just deal with how uncomfortable and scary it is. It's going to feel really scary. So So So yeah. And well, and I know that like I've got to lean on my faith for this, too. And I know that resonates with you. I we were uh at our church service on Sunday, this past Sunday, and they were talking about that actually.

Um going through all of the passages in Hebrews and about um you know, giving up all of your sins to God. Oh, that's wonderful. Yeah. And so like it this is like perfect. It was perfect timing for it. And this is all perfect timing. Um what would you what should I do then about the workouts? I wish you guys would have had maps 15 powerlift like and had released all these maps 15 programs. One one we're going to give it to you. Two, we also have we we have coaches that you work with.

They'll give you whatever you need. Yeah, they'll take care of that part. So, I would love if if you allow us to have one of our coaches call you and and she can talk to you and and talk more about this and then we'll take care of the program. You you you mentioned your faith. I love that cuz you know that uh there's an illusion of control that's completely false anyway. We're not sovereign so that's completely you know out the window. Here's the other thing too is uh another wonderful silver lining.

You work with teenage teenagers and teenage girls girls girls when you're in those moments where you're really struggling. What would you tell a 15-year-old you or a 15-year-old student? student? student? And that advice is the advice that you would take because I know it's easier to love them than it is to love yourself. It is. Yes, you're right. You're absolutely right. absolutely right. absolutely right. When you're in that place, be like, "What would I tell, you know, my 15-year-old daughter or student?" And then, "Okay, that's the advice I need to take." take." take." Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. All right. We're going to have someone call you, I know exactly who I think you would be great with. Yes. Yes. Yes. And And then what's going to be great about this, Leanne, is now that you if if you work with our coaches, we're going to see you and I'm going to hop on some of these calls because I feel responsible now for you and we This will be so fun. Yeah. Yeah. We're going to help you through this. We got this. All right.

Great. Thank you. This was awesome. And happy new year. Happy birthday. Happy birthday. Happy birthday. Enjoy yourselves. Enjoy yourselves tonight with your Ziotics. I I like trust you guys. I um buy all the things that you I bought your programs and then buy all the things that you tell tell us to buy. I'm like I got to get the antara. That's what the mind pump say. I'm like, I buy all the Legion proteins and preworkouts, which actually are amazing. Anyways, so well, let let us take care of you now.

So, we'll have someone call you and we'll take care of you. God bless you. All right. All right. Thank you so much. Be in touch. How cute. Her daughter was back there. I know. I love it. So cute. I wonder if she even knew. Did she see? I could I knew when I knew as soon as I started talking food, she was like, "That's not what I want to hear." And I get it, man. I totally get it. And I know that's what the coaches tried to work with her on from Legion 2.

And that's a difficult thing. And I just want people to know, ladies in particular, you can strength train perfectly. You will get osteoporosis if you don't eat enough. Yeah. It's just there's a um an unfortunate fact. unfortunate fact. unfortunate fact. For the most part, there's a lot of a lot of callers that are pretty straightforward for us. Then there's stuff that there's a real art to be able to take somebody through something like that. that. that. This is This is This is it's not coaching. It's not as simple like, you know, young young coach goes, "Oh, just add 500 calories a day." Yeah, you know, and walks away.

Uh because it's not just that, it's able to step her through that whole process. And you just have to keep a close eye on that. And to try and do it through a nutritionist without strength training, it to me is just I I would love to see the numbers on the success rate of that, how often that happens. Because in my experience, the the the only way this really works is we completely we ignore the scale. We don't hyperfocus on the food. You're following the plan I gave you.

You don't even need to know how many calories. I know how many calories is. You know what I'm saying? All we're talking about is like how do you feel? How's your sleep? How's your hair? How's I can direct positive energy in that direction instead of all being doomed. And the key the key is uh is that you have to communicate and they have to make peace with the fact that it's going to be uncomfortable. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, it's going to be really uncomfortable. And I don't know I've seen a lot of uh nutrition coaches, dieticians, and they just they don't focus on that.

But you need to because what happens to the person is they're doing it and they're like, "This can't be right. I feel terrible." Well, yeah, you feel terrible because it's scary as hell to you. And a feeling of being satisfied is a very scary feeling to somebody who's had a history of eating disorder. Yep. Yep. Yep. Our next caller is Justin from Ohio. What's up, man? What's up, Justin? What's up, dude? Hey, how you doing, guys? Good. Good. How can we help you? Okay. So, I'm a 42-y old male, about 5'6, 165 pounds, somewhere between 17 19% body fat.

And I just want to know if uh all the things we know about optimal training, frequency, volume, recovery, hormone response, does all that stuff still apply to someone's shift on that has a night shift schedule? So, I work like 6:00 p. p.m. to 6 a.m. And I just want to know like uh does all that stuff apply to me as as it does to like a 9 to5 lifter, like a normal lifter? lifter? lifter? It does. But what I think everyone is going to agree in this room is that sleep becomes such a bigger priority than even I mean sleep is a big priority for everybody, for everybody, for everybody, but for someone like you, it be it it it trumps so many other things because of how challenging that can be.

And so, uh, it does. it does. it does. Yeah. Do you flip Do you flip? No, that's the one thing I kind of key on is sleep. So, I I I always get at least 6 to 8 hours of sleep, and that's something I prioritize. Good. And I was doing like a push pull leg, and that was just absolutely killing me. Like, it was just taking so much energy out of me. And recently, I switched to a full body two to three times a week, okay?

okay? okay? And that seems to to to do a lot better. Like, I have more energy. Uh, gives it time for rest and recovery. And it also gives me time to do other things, you know. I'm not strictly in the gym 2 hours a day, you know. Yeah. No, that's much better for you. Here's to the two things I would tell you. Um, do you flip your schedule when you're off or do you maintain the same schedule? schedule? schedule? So, on my days off, I have a really unique schedule.

So, I work five, I get two off, I work two, and then I get five off. off. off. Okay. Okay. Okay. On my off days, usually I'll catch up on my sleep and then switch my schedule back. back. back. Okay. That's like a normal. You got a family, you got kids, wife? I have a wife, a dog. I have no kids. Okay. Well, so I get it then because you probably want to hang out with your wife. So, ideally, you would keep your schedule the same all the time.

The flipping all the time is really giving you is is doing a number on your circadian rhythm. Uh, but I get it. You probably don't want to, you know, you probably want to be up when your wife is up on those days off, right? You know, just go back to a normal schedule on my day off. I get it. So, so in that case, I get it. So, so in that case, when he does do that, uh I can't remember this the research and stuff that Ben Greenfield would share with us that related to like the infrared sauna like the when he goes to reset.

Yeah. I mean, you can use sauna, melatonin. Yeah. You really want to mimic uh you know, daytime at night, nighttime in the day on those days that you're you're doing that. And then, you know, do everything you can to accelerate the the switching of the circadian rhythm when you're having those days where you're flipping. That's what I mean when he when he goes. So, I'm I'm trying to give him some like extra tips to to to speed therapy to speed that process up would be like infrared sauna and melatonin the night before, right?

Like that would probably be the best thing for you to do. Um, and Um, and Um, and what about magnesium? I don't like really like the melatonin. Melatonin I kind of wake up a little groggy, but I'd switch to magnesium and magnesium seems to help out a little bit. bit. bit. Yeah, it's good. No, the melatonin you would would would only on the day when you're switching. So, you wouldn't do you you do magnesium consistently. Magnesium should be like a staple thing you do. The mag the magnesium and the the magnesium in the infrared sauna is the you mean the melatonin or the excuse me the melatonin and the infrared sauna is the the one day that you do the flip.

So when you flip to the the new schedule the melaton the melaton the melaton what that's doing is it's helping you reset your circadian rhythm faster than what you're doing naturally. You're kind of doing it by yourself by like you know two days of rest and recovery, right? That should accelerate it by having that the night before having melatonin that night and then in the morning going doing the Yeah. Yeah. The other thing too is you should you should you you probably would benefit from taking 15 to 20 grams of creatine a day.

Oh yeah, good point. I do. Creatine is a staple of mine. That's it. Yep. But do you take 15 to 20 gram high dose of it? of it? of it? Are you doing high dose or just five grams a day? Uh between 15 to 20. I'll do it throughout the day. You know, my morning protein shake, you know, then afternoon and night. and night. and night. Good. Good. Good. Yep. Nope. That's it. Yeah, you're good, dude. dude. dude. Yeah, you're doing good. Okay, cool. Very good.

And then the full body, that's something that's like sustainable. sustainable. sustainable. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah, I like I like doing it two to three times a week. I like you on the two to three times a week. The only other option I would say would be good for you is like the MAP 15. 15. 15. But if you like the idea that you only got to be in the gym two or two or three days, less days in the gym is that's better for you, then do that.

But the MAT 15 is even lower volume, so it's even less stress on the body, which isn't a bad option, too. Okay. Yeah, that was another thing. I like when I do it, I go pretty hard. It's three to four exercises per body part. part. part. Oh, yeah. It's pretty hard. Yep. Yep. Yep. So, So, So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maps anabolic. Maps anabolic is is the is follow maps anabolic. The way that's Do you have that already? that already? that already? I do not. Okay. So, let's get that.

Oh yeah. Yeah. Send him maps anabolic. Yeah, that'll be good for that schedule. Yep. Yep. Yep. I I I'll have Doug send you also maps 15 because I think you should try that. I think the com try maps anabolic. See how that type of a routine works for you. Then you know and give it like a month or two of running that. See how that feels. And then also give MAPS 15 a shot and just see how your body responds and how you feel the difference.

And really what the difference is Matt 15 instead of it being these two full body long hour sessions or three long hour sessions, you're you're breaking it up over six days small. It's only you're only doing two lifts in a day. Okay. Okay. Okay. So it's less intense, which which will help with things like sleep and recovery because it's not as in it's not as much volume. volume. volume. So play with those two. Right on. Yep. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. All right, Justin. Well, thank you guys.

All right, man. Have a good new year, guys. You got it, dude. Mhm. I mean, for anybody listening who does a night shift, I if you want perfect, you want to make it ideal, you keep that schedule all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's so hard though, bro. I know. The rest of the world is up. Unless you're a single dude who's like, you know what I'm saying? Like everybody else. else. else. That's why I asked him if you got wife and kids. and kids. and kids.

Yeah. I mean, single dude, but who cares? I mean, it's it's tough even if you're the single dude. If you want a girlfriend, you know what I'm saying? You go out at night. Actually, no. During the day, I know. Yeah. You have a lot a lot of lunches. lunches. lunches. Yeah. A lot of coffee dates in the morning. morning. morning. Yeah. But that's Listen, the data I mean just straight up like the data on you can do everything perfect there. This is a a a it's just not healthy.

Uh it's a big not healthy thing, you know. know. know. Schedule like that. You might as well like live in the basement, you know, like that's tough. Our next caller is Nha from California. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. How you doing? Hello. Hello. Hello. Hi everyone. Happy holidays. Same. How can we help you? Oh, I must first say that it's surreal. You will not believe two of my resolutions for this year was one to finish the map's anabolic program and the other one was to ask you question and I'm so glad I get to finish both of them this year.

Oh, good job. That's awesome. What you got for us? Um, I'll go ahead and read my email. Okay. Okay. Okay. Hi, Mind Pump. To start off, I must say I love your podcast. As an Indian-born woman, I find it very interesting to hear your perspective and find your advice informative and sometimes outright hilarious. Mhm. And I've previously gone from 151 to 128 lb unhealthily in 2018 when I hired a young trainer who put me on a 1200 calorie diet and made me believe that fat was bad for me.

I still have hormonal acne from it. So I have recovered but it has done trauma on me. So as you can imagine I gained all that weight back and especially I was going through stresses of graduate school. So it was natural that I would get it all back. So my current situation now I'm a 32year-old 5t tall female weighing around 148.4 lb and 34.1 body fat percent. This is measured using my scale at home which might be wrong. And I started Matt's anabolic program on July 1st when I was 149.4 lb and similar body fat percentage.

I borrowed this program from a friend couple of years ago. I should say I gave it a try total of three times and I failed because I could not do like three times a week or two times a week without getting hurt. But this year I could happily finish it and I really enjoyed pre-phase and saw strength gains in phase one but after that I injured my neck and upper back and had to take couple of weeks off due and do mobility and stretching. So phase three was too much for me and I had to do a 2-day a week version.

Also note that I'm increasing my grip strength and just achieved a 10-second body weight dead hang on October 24th. So this was also one of my 2025 resolutions to do a 10second dead hang. And I finished the MAPS anabolic program on November 9th at exactly the same weight I started at 148.4 lb and 34.1 body fat percent. And I'm currently consuming around 2,000 calories and burning around 2100. no cardio. I just do 10k steps a day. And as you can see, I'm in a very moderate deficit, 100 calories per day, which might be the reason I did not lose body uh fat or weight.

Uh I skipped I should mention I skipped all of the calf raises and also shoulder shrugs because of my neck and shoulder uh injuries. So going forward, I would like to start MAPS performance to ensure I can rehabilitate my back and I'm planning to go on a deficit uh of 16 to,700 calories starting on November 12th, which I did. And uh you have the first 5 days of the maps performance on YouTube, which is what I was following. I basically do the three foundational days and I repeat the two mobilities every alternate day.

And I'm almost about to finish the first phase. I was about to buy a program, but I did not know which one to. So, it's perfect that I'm talking to you now. So, currently I feel very flabby and I'm not used to feeling uh this heavy at 148 lb. My happy place typically is around 125 to 130 lb. That's where I feel the best in my body and that's something I would like to achieve around 130 lb with 25% body f uh body fat. I haven't been that for a long time and I feel very flabby.

Can you recommend how I can go on a cut while ensuring I don't hurt my neck? My neck injury is because of loading the squad rack wrong on my neck 3 years ago. So, I did I think 120 lb squats. Then I went home and I got up at 3:00 in the morning with my right side of the neck and shoulder swelled up because I'm pretty sure I did something wrong there. So, I would like to be conscious of not loading things on my back until I rehabilitate it completely.

And I'm currently not at all confident. All of my squats that I do uh deadlifts are completely with dumbbells. So, uh currently I can do a 45 lb dumbbell squat, but I would like to make progress on the strength and start loading my back again very safely. So, I wanted to see what advice you can give me. And another um uh interesting thing is that I commute to work driving 2 hours every day and I also strain my neck because of that. So I do mobility uh stretches uh like morning and evening but is there something else that I could do to make sure that I am on the right path for 202 have you ever worked uh in person with a trainer or correctional exercise specialist.

specialist. specialist. I have actually gone uh to uh inerson trainer. This was the wrong person I hired in 2018. So that was bad. After that it turned me off a little. Then I went to physical therapy. um a year and a half ago when I injured my neck and back. back. back. Okay. Okay. Okay. And that was very helpful. They basically gave me like foam roller exercises, the angel uh hand movements and stuff which was great which is what I do till now. And I also do the wall circles that you have on your YouTube.

Good. Have you How long did you work with a physical therapist? What did that look like? look like? look like? Uh it was around uh 3 months. Okay. And it was basically like uh heat pads followed by u stretches and him mentioning that I should not do any overhead presses for a while. Okay. Okay. Okay. So I should not pick anything up above my shoulders because my muscle patterns are all wrongly trained to protect my neck from that injury. Got it. Got it. Got it. Correctional exercise would benefit you a lot.

a lot. a lot. Absolutely. you you you need a specialist to work with you for a little while because uh there's there's a movement pattern issue that can probably get corrected. get corrected. get corrected. Um but until it gets corrected, this is going to be got to go to the root. Yeah. A repeating issue. Like the fact that your neck hurts you when you drive tells me that uh we need some correctional exercise. You're not near us, are you? Are you in the San Jose, California area?

Are you are you in Santa Barbara? So just four hours down. Okay. down. Okay. down. Okay. So, I'm going to refer I'm going to have Doug refer you to a good friend of ours. Uh, and he's the best exercise specialist, correctional exercise specialist I know. He also works virtually and he does a good job virtually. And so, we're going to send you his contact. He's the best. Like, I've never met anybody as good as him. He's also very familiar with all of our MAPS programs. So, after he does correctional work with you, he'll recommend the right direction for maps also.

also. also. Yeah. But, but I think you'll probably start there though. Yeah. Yeah. I think you'll start there. And I think a mass 15 protocol will probably be your best option. Mass 15 or symmetry is what symmetry or symmetry. He's going to he'll send you on that. We'll take care of the program. But Brink needs to do some of the work with you first. That that's where this will will set you up for success. Now, nutrition wise, uh, you know, I think if you're doing proper strength training, what we want to do is build strength and muscle, which will set you up well for the fat loss.

Yeah, your calories aren't bad, but to cut from 2,000 calories, we're going to hit a plateau a plateau a plateau and then you're going to be stuck at 1400 calories at some point. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then where do we go from there, you know? know? know? Yeah. 2,000 calories does seem like a lot though. lot though. lot though. So, So, So, like during the holidays, I was eating around 2500 calories for the week and I felt really bad like the entire time. It also depends what the calories are.

But here's the thing. It's not that 2,000 calories are high. It's that I would like you to fall to 2,000 calories for your cut. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you do you see what I'm saying? So So a good reverse diet with strength training will help do that. But the problem is problem is problem is for us to build muscle, we're going to need progressive overload. We're going to need a level of intensity. But if if we don't figure out what's causing the upper back and neck pain, that's going to keep getting in the way as you get stronger.

So you'll progress progress and then you'll hurt and then we got to back down again. So Dr. Brink's going to be able to help you. this is this is his specialty. This is uh he'll he's going to give you movements, stuff to do every day, and you continue to work on that, and you're going to start to notice how much better you feel, and then we talk about, okay, how do we load the bar again? How do we start pushing the weight? And then then we increase the calories to Sal's point with really good strength training.

Yeah. But first, we do the correctional work. That's work. That's work. That's He's He's the best. I've never worked with anybody better than him and I've worked with a lot of really good people. Oh, that sounds awesome. And I must say like I listen to you guys like every other day. Like whenever your podcast drops I'm the first person to listen to. And my husband goes, "What are you doing?" I'm like, "Oh, I'm just listening to the guys like while I'm making coffee and stuff." So I should say I took your advice for reverse dieting seriously.

Like at the beginning of anabolic program, my maintenance was 1,800 and I went all the way to 2200. All because of you. Oh, good. Appreciate that. Okay. But we'll be in contact because because Brink will tell us what you need and then we'll just hook you up. Yep. Awesome. Thank you so much, you guys. guys. guys. You got it. New year. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Happy New Year. You, too. You, too. You, too. Yeah. I need I you know, it's I'm glad we got Well, first off, obviously sucks that she's got something going on there.

And, you know, I asked her about physical therapy because here's my experience with uh physical therapy. First of all, physical therapists are incredible incredible incredible at correctional exercise. That being said, said, said, they turn they turn they turn in in the clinical setting oftentimes they're dealing with multiple people, you do this, you do that, you do this, and it's like, no, what what what you need, need, need, well, there's no plan after it either. And it's you need special like someone to look at you, watch your movement pattern, correct it in the m, not just leave you to do here, put this on, do that, you know, type of.

And 3 months sounds like a long time, but I bet a lot of that was on her own with just like, hey, do this and whatever. Oh, you've heard me talk about on the show how when I when I fired mine, I was I didn't tell mine that I was a personal trainer and then I knew this stuff and I remember they put me in this like this is when I was rehabbing the ACL MCL and I one of the you know and I one of the you know recumbent bike leg extensions with weights on my ankles.

Then I do a then ball squats and I'm doing ball squats and you and the and the the physical therapist walks away. I do that for two minutes and then walks away. Exactly. And it's like now I know as a trainer that as I squat down, when I've got an injury like that, the natural thing is going to be shift my weight over to my strong side. But I know that I got the person's not going to know that. Yeah. They're not going to know that they're just going to go up and down, up and down.

And then now they create this this pattern that's going to the the stronger side dominates and then they can't figure out why they have low back pain, issues, momentum. Yeah. So you see that a lot and it's not a knock on physical therapist. It's just that a lot of times they put them in the It's the system designs it that way. I had a I had an incredible physical therapist that work in my studio, but she left that setting and went private precisely because of that.

And the results she got with people were just, I mean, miraculous. They were mind-blowing. And Dr. Brink's just he's so good. And so, it's like, you know, you want to build muscle and strength. If you have if you need correctional exercise and you don't address that first, it ain't going to happen. The second you get stronger, you're going to get hurt. get hurt. get hurt. The problem gets worse. It's like trying to build a house with no foundation. I mean, you can you can try and build a house on sand.

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. All right. I know you like that episode. If you did, check this one out. One of the keys to fat loss is protein. It's true. If you're not eating a high protein diet, you're not going to burn as much body fat as you can. So, today's episode, we're going to talk about the smartest ways to use protein for fat burn and to build muscle. You got to watch this. I wish I understood this earlier in my career. I think it was probably probably probably almost 10 years in when I started to just focus on this with clients.

I knew it was important, but I don't know how important. important. important. Yeah.