OpenAI's Code Red, Sacks vs New York Times, New Poverty Line?

All right, everybody. Welcome back to All right, everybody. Welcome back to the number one podcast in the world, the the number one podcast in the world, the the number one podcast in the world, the AllIn podcast. In the news, in your AllIn podcast. In the news, in your AllIn podcast. In the news, in your feed. We're ready to go. We've got the feed. We're ready to go. We've got the feed. We're ready to go. We've got the original quartet here. The band's back original quartet here. The band's back original quartet here. The band's back together. All right. First up on the together. All right. First up on the together. All right. First up on the docket. A code red has been called by docket. A code red has been called by docket. A code red has been called by Sam Alman. He sent a memo on Monday. He Sam Alman. He sent a memo on Monday. He Sam Alman. He sent a memo on Monday. He told employees to stop working on side told employees to stop working on side told employees to stop working on side quests, you know, like ads, etc., and quests, you know, like ads, etc., and quests, you know, like ads, etc., and focus on the core chat. GPT, the core focus on the core chat. GPT, the core focus on the core chat. GPT, the core experience. Make it faster. make it experience. Make it faster. make it experience. Make it faster. make it better. And I think we all know why better. And I think we all know why better. And I think we all know why because Gemini and Grock and Claude from because Gemini and Grock and Claude from because Gemini and Grock and Claude from Anthropic have been crushing it. Chat Anthropic have been crushing it. Chat Anthropic have been crushing it. Chat GPT5, let's call it what it is, was a GPT5, let's call it what it is, was a GPT5, let's call it what it is, was a bit of a flop. It didn't perform to bit of a flop. It didn't perform to bit of a flop. It didn't perform to expectations. We discussed that a couple expectations. We discussed that a couple expectations. We discussed that a couple of weeks ago or months ago. Anthropic is of weeks ago or months ago. Anthropic is of weeks ago or months ago. Anthropic is beating OpenAI in enterprise revenue beating OpenAI in enterprise revenue beating OpenAI in enterprise revenue starting this summer. And I talked about starting this summer. And I talked about starting this summer. And I talked about how, you know, previous episodes on the how, you know, previous episodes on the how, you know, previous episodes on the streets. I'm seeing more startups want streets. I'm seeing more startups want streets. I'm seeing more startups want to use Anthropic to use Anthropic to use Anthropic API and also Google Gemini's API and and API and also Google Gemini's API and and API and also Google Gemini's API and and they don't essentially trust Open AI to they don't essentially trust Open AI to they don't essentially trust Open AI to not steal their business. So, it's big not steal their business. So, it's big not steal their business. So, it's big changes right now. Here is a chart based changes right now. Here is a chart based changes right now. Here is a chart based on data from July. Most of Anthropics on data from July. Most of Anthropics on data from July. Most of Anthropics revenue here is corporate. Most of revenue here is corporate. Most of revenue here is corporate. Most of OpenAI's as everybody knows is consumer. OpenAI's as everybody knows is consumer. OpenAI's as everybody knows is consumer. And here's another chart. OpenAI's new And here's another chart. OpenAI's new And here's another chart. OpenAI's new infrastructure deals versus revenue and infrastructure deals versus revenue and infrastructure deals versus revenue and this is just for 2025 alone. A lot of this is just for 2025 alone. A lot of this is just for 2025 alone. A lot of deals being made, but competition is deals being made, but competition is deals being made, but competition is fierce. Chimath, your thoughts here on fierce. Chimath, your thoughts here on fierce. Chimath, your thoughts here on the game on the field. Code red for the game on the field. Code red for the game on the field. Code red for people who don't know in our industry is people who don't know in our industry is people who don't know in our industry is when everybody reports to the office and when everybody reports to the office and when everybody reports to the office and gets focused on one thing. And uh that's gets focused on one thing. And uh that's gets focused on one thing. And uh that's apparently what Sam's doing. How do you apparently what Sam's doing. How do you apparently what Sam's doing. How do you interpret it? interpret it? interpret it? >> Look, I think that there are two things. >> Look, I think that there are two things. >> Look, I think that there are two things. Let's do the strategic lens and then the Let's do the strategic lens and then the Let's do the strategic lens and then the tactical lens. the strategic lens is tactical lens. the strategic lens is tactical lens. the strategic lens is that this is an incredibly vibrant and that this is an incredibly vibrant and that this is an incredibly vibrant and dynamic market and I think it's too dynamic market and I think it's too dynamic market and I think it's too difficult and too early to pick winners difficult and too early to pick winners difficult and too early to pick winners other than at the silicon layer where other than at the silicon layer where other than at the silicon layer where largely that die has been cast. I think largely that die has been cast. I think largely that die has been cast. I think that it's going to grow. So we can talk that it's going to grow. So we can talk that it's going to grow. So we can talk about how there'll be more competition about how there'll be more competition about how there'll be more competition but it's roughly Nvidia plus AMD plus but it's roughly Nvidia plus AMD plus but it's roughly Nvidia plus AMD plus Google plus a bunch of inference Google plus a bunch of inference Google plus a bunch of inference silicon. So that's sort of that market silicon. So that's sort of that market silicon. So that's sort of that market but above it at the model market. It but above it at the model market. It but above it at the model market. It reminds me, frankly, a lot of when we reminds me, frankly, a lot of when we reminds me, frankly, a lot of when we were building Facebook. I remember were building Facebook. I remember were building Facebook. I remember sitting around our senior executive sitting around our senior executive sitting around our senior executive team, six of us, looking at MySpace, who team, six of us, looking at MySpace, who team, six of us, looking at MySpace, who was an order of magnitude bigger than was an order of magnitude bigger than was an order of magnitude bigger than us. And at some point, we were like, you us. And at some point, we were like, you us. And at some point, we were like, you know what, our product is just know what, our product is just know what, our product is just fundamentally better than theirs. And fundamentally better than theirs. And fundamentally better than theirs. And they had 100 million plus users and we they had 100 million plus users and we they had 100 million plus users and we had sort of 15. But we knew that we were had sort of 15. But we knew that we were had sort of 15. But we knew that we were eventually going to beat them. Nobody eventually going to beat them. Nobody eventually going to beat them. Nobody else knew. And I feel like this market else knew. And I feel like this market else knew. And I feel like this market is similarly evolving, which is that you is similarly evolving, which is that you is similarly evolving, which is that you have these early winners, but there's have these early winners, but there's have these early winners, but there's still so much work to do. There's still still so much work to do. There's still still so much work to do. There's still so many consumer expectations to define so many consumer expectations to define so many consumer expectations to define that it's too early to know who's going that it's too early to know who's going that it's too early to know who's going to win. And ultimately, what we are to win. And ultimately, what we are to win. And ultimately, what we are learning, especially as all these learning, especially as all these learning, especially as all these markets converge, is that distribution markets converge, is that distribution markets converge, is that distribution still matters a ton, which favors still matters a ton, which favors still matters a ton, which favors Google. It favors Meta, although Meta's Google. It favors Meta, although Meta's Google. It favors Meta, although Meta's quite behind. And now it will still quite behind. And now it will still quite behind. And now it will still favor OpenAI because they have 800 favor OpenAI because they have 800 favor OpenAI because they have 800 million monthly activives. So then the million monthly activives. So then the million monthly activives. So then the tactical thing is what do you do knowing tactical thing is what do you do knowing tactical thing is what do you do knowing that this dynamic is set up to have a that this dynamic is set up to have a that this dynamic is set up to have a lot of competition and I think what you lot of competition and I think what you lot of competition and I think what you have to do is streamline the focus and have to do is streamline the focus and have to do is streamline the focus and try to make a crisis out of every try to make a crisis out of every try to make a crisis out of every opportunity because look the companies opportunity because look the companies opportunity because look the companies tend to just grow this positive entropy tend to just grow this positive entropy tend to just grow this positive entropy tends to cause people to hire at every tends to cause people to hire at every tends to cause people to hire at every level and you look around and there's level and you look around and there's level and you look around and there's thousands of people that you didn't know thousands of people that you didn't know thousands of people that you didn't know even six months ago. And so I think if even six months ago. And so I think if even six months ago. And so I think if Sam can use different points in time to Sam can use different points in time to Sam can use different points in time to tighten the core focus, they'll be tighten the core focus, they'll be tighten the core focus, they'll be better off. And I think that is what better off. And I think that is what better off. And I think that is what Google did a while back. If you remember Google did a while back. If you remember Google did a while back. If you remember the whole black George Washington thing, the whole black George Washington thing, the whole black George Washington thing, they were able to use that as a rallying they were able to use that as a rallying they were able to use that as a rallying cry to streamline the organization and cry to streamline the organization and cry to streamline the organization and to focus and to get their best and to focus and to get their best and to focus and to get their best and smartest people to work on the most smartest people to work on the most smartest people to work on the most highly leveraged tasks. And what you see highly leveraged tasks. And what you see highly leveraged tasks. And what you see now is an incredible overperformance now is an incredible overperformance now is an incredible overperformance from where they were. I've said this from where they were. I've said this from where they were. I've said this before, but Gemini is is incredible. So, before, but Gemini is is incredible. So, before, but Gemini is is incredible. So, I think that that's what's happening. I think that that's what's happening. I think that that's what's happening. Too early to call. It's a three or four Too early to call. It's a three or four Too early to call. It's a three or four horse race and Sam needs to batten down horse race and Sam needs to batten down horse race and Sam needs to batten down the hatches. And I think he used this the hatches. And I think he used this the hatches. And I think he used this opportunity to stop a bunch of opportunity to stop a bunch of opportunity to stop a bunch of peripheral activities. Yeah. And as we peripheral activities. Yeah. And as we peripheral activities. Yeah. And as we saw, Sergey called a personal code red. saw, Sergey called a personal code red. saw, Sergey called a personal code red. He said, "I have to get in the office. I He said, "I have to get in the office. I He said, "I have to get in the office. I have to inspire everybody because this have to inspire everybody because this have to inspire everybody because this is existential for us if we lose is existential for us if we lose is existential for us if we lose the search franchise, which they the search franchise, which they the search franchise, which they haven't. The code red works." So David haven't. The code red works." So David haven't. The code red works." So David Freeberg, maybe you could discuss a Freeberg, maybe you could discuss a Freeberg, maybe you could discuss a little bit code red as a management little bit code red as a management little bit code red as a management technique. You were at Google. I don't technique. You were at Google. I don't technique. You were at Google. I don't know if they were calling code reds back know if they were calling code reds back know if they were calling code reds back then because you didn't have any then because you didn't have any then because you didn't have any competition, but we're in a much competition, but we're in a much competition, but we're in a much different world here. This is the most different world here. This is the most different world here. This is the most competitive thing we've ever seen in our competitive thing we've ever seen in our competitive thing we've ever seen in our lifetimes. I think Google had an early lifetimes. I think Google had an early lifetimes. I think Google had an early lead in search and then Microsoft lead in search and then Microsoft lead in search and then Microsoft launched and it formed a code red model launched and it formed a code red model launched and it formed a code red model at Google that was called Project Canada at Google that was called Project Canada at Google that was called Project Canada as the code word for Microsoft. And as the code word for Microsoft. And as the code word for Microsoft. And there was a weekly war room meeting and there was a weekly war room meeting and there was a weekly war room meeting and a whole bunch of strategy and product a whole bunch of strategy and product a whole bunch of strategy and product decision-making that was driven around decision-making that was driven around decision-making that was driven around the impending threat from Microsoft the impending threat from Microsoft the impending threat from Microsoft because Microsoft was such a big because Microsoft was such a big because Microsoft was such a big behemoth, so well capitalized, had behemoth, so well capitalized, had behemoth, so well capitalized, had incredible engineering talent. Part of incredible engineering talent. Part of incredible engineering talent. Part of the response was to set up an office in the response was to set up an office in the response was to set up an office in Kirkland to recruit engineers up in Kirkland to recruit engineers up in Kirkland to recruit engineers up in Seattle to aggressively grow that base. Seattle to aggressively grow that base. Seattle to aggressively grow that base. There was a whole bunch of tactics that There was a whole bunch of tactics that There was a whole bunch of tactics that emerged from the strategic lens of emerged from the strategic lens of emerged from the strategic lens of project Canada. It is a very powerful project Canada. It is a very powerful project Canada. It is a very powerful method. It is how the United States got method. It is how the United States got method. It is how the United States got to the moon in a race with Russia. It is to the moon in a race with Russia. It is to the moon in a race with Russia. It is how we are now in a race for supremacy how we are now in a race for supremacy how we are now in a race for supremacy in technology and AI against China. in technology and AI against China. in technology and AI against China. Having an impending threat is a very Having an impending threat is a very Having an impending threat is a very strong motivational tactic. It is a very strong motivational tactic. It is a very strong motivational tactic. It is a very focusing setting and it drives focusing setting and it drives focusing setting and it drives innovation. And so we'll see what innovation. And so we'll see what innovation. And so we'll see what happens. Chat GPT happens. Chat GPT happens. Chat GPT was basically the market monopoly in AI was basically the market monopoly in AI was basically the market monopoly in AI or LLM chat interface and it only had or LLM chat interface and it only had or LLM chat interface and it only had one way to go which was down. Google I one way to go which was down. Google I one way to go which was down. Google I think at this point has roughly 14%. So think at this point has roughly 14%. So think at this point has roughly 14%. So here you can see OpenAI is on the here you can see OpenAI is on the here you can see OpenAI is on the decline. Obviously a little over a year decline. Obviously a little over a year decline. Obviously a little over a year ago they were at 90% plus market share ago they were at 90% plus market share ago they were at 90% plus market share in generative AI traffic and today in generative AI traffic and today in generative AI traffic and today Gemini is at 14 15%. the depth, the Gemini is at 14 15%. the depth, the Gemini is at 14 15%. the depth, the flywheel that Google has built gives flywheel that Google has built gives flywheel that Google has built gives them such extraordinary advantage. them such extraordinary advantage. them such extraordinary advantage. >> Okay, let's go to Emperor Palpatine. Uh, >> Okay, let's go to Emperor Palpatine. Uh, >> Okay, let's go to Emperor Palpatine. Uh, this is coming together as exactly as this is coming together as exactly as this is coming together as exactly as you orchestrated you as thesar of AI and you orchestrated you as thesar of AI and you orchestrated you as thesar of AI and crypto. Thank you for your service, crypto. Thank you for your service, crypto. Thank you for your service, civil servant David Sachs. You wanted to civil servant David Sachs. You wanted to civil servant David Sachs. You wanted to see vibrant competition. Well, here we see vibrant competition. Well, here we see vibrant competition. Well, here we have it. Assess the playing field as you have it. Assess the playing field as you have it. Assess the playing field as you see it from DC. see it from DC. see it from DC. Well, first of all, let me give credit Well, first of all, let me give credit Well, first of all, let me give credit to Sam for calling this code red, to Sam for calling this code red, to Sam for calling this code red, breaking the glass, and pulling the the breaking the glass, and pulling the the breaking the glass, and pulling the the alarm. I think it's so easy for CEOs in alarm. I think it's so easy for CEOs in alarm. I think it's so easy for CEOs in general to engage in happy talk and general to engage in happy talk and general to engage in happy talk and ignore problems, especially when ignore problems, especially when ignore problems, especially when discussing them is going to create a PR discussing them is going to create a PR discussing them is going to create a PR story that they don't like. And I do story that they don't like. And I do story that they don't like. And I do think one of the things that's unique think one of the things that's unique think one of the things that's unique about Silicon Valley is just that the about Silicon Valley is just that the about Silicon Valley is just that the founders and CEOs do treat the situation founders and CEOs do treat the situation founders and CEOs do treat the situation of their companies in a more existential of their companies in a more existential of their companies in a more existential way because we actually do have way because we actually do have way because we actually do have tremendous competition. And so anytime I tremendous competition. And so anytime I tremendous competition. And so anytime I think a CEO is willing to again take a think a CEO is willing to again take a think a CEO is willing to again take a bad PR story in order to focus their bad PR story in order to focus their bad PR story in order to focus their troops on a real business problem, I troops on a real business problem, I troops on a real business problem, I think they deserve credit for it because think they deserve credit for it because think they deserve credit for it because I think when you look at the rest of the I think when you look at the rest of the I think when you look at the rest of the Fortune 500, you know, these CEOs are Fortune 500, you know, these CEOs are Fortune 500, you know, these CEOs are just kind of managing PR all the time. just kind of managing PR all the time. just kind of managing PR all the time. Now with respect to the ecosystem as a Now with respect to the ecosystem as a Now with respect to the ecosystem as a whole, it is very competitive and I whole, it is very competitive and I whole, it is very competitive and I think we've got five major companies and think we've got five major companies and think we've got five major companies and they all have their strengths. So chat they all have their strengths. So chat they all have their strengths. So chat GPT is the leader in consumer. They have GPT is the leader in consumer. They have GPT is the leader in consumer. They have something like 80% market share in something like 80% market share in something like 80% market share in consumer use of LLM chatbots. But then consumer use of LLM chatbots. But then consumer use of LLM chatbots. But then Google came out with their new Gemini 3 Google came out with their new Gemini 3 Google came out with their new Gemini 3 and they were starting to take share and they were starting to take share and they were starting to take share based on the strength of Gemini 3 and based on the strength of Gemini 3 and based on the strength of Gemini 3 and the integration it has obviously within the integration it has obviously within the integration it has obviously within Google search cuz it's very easy for Google search cuz it's very easy for Google search cuz it's very easy for people to discover it when they do a people to discover it when they do a people to discover it when they do a Google search and now they're seeing Google search and now they're seeing Google search and now they're seeing that it's actually pretty good. So they that it's actually pretty good. So they that it's actually pretty good. So they were starting to take share from Chat were starting to take share from Chat were starting to take share from Chat GBT and I think that's why Sam issued GBT and I think that's why Sam issued GBT and I think that's why Sam issued the code red. Then you've got anthropic the code red. Then you've got anthropic the code red. Then you've got anthropic like you mentioned where I don't like you mentioned where I don't like you mentioned where I don't particularly love what I've called their particularly love what I've called their particularly love what I've called their regulatory capture strategy, but I have regulatory capture strategy, but I have regulatory capture strategy, but I have to acknowledge their products are very to acknowledge their products are very to acknowledge their products are very good. Everybody seems to say that they good. Everybody seems to say that they good. Everybody seems to say that they have the best coding assistant and have the best coding assistant and have the best coding assistant and they're carving out a very lucrative they're carving out a very lucrative they're carving out a very lucrative niche in enterprise. And then you've got niche in enterprise. And then you've got niche in enterprise. And then you've got XAI which I think is the best at current XAI which I think is the best at current XAI which I think is the best at current events because of the integration with events because of the integration with events because of the integration with X. And also Elon seems to be able to X. And also Elon seems to be able to X. And also Elon seems to be able to scale his data center, his training scale his data center, his training scale his data center, his training cluster the fastest. He's got, you know, cluster the fastest. He's got, you know, cluster the fastest. He's got, you know, he had Colossus one, now he's got he had Colossus one, now he's got he had Colossus one, now he's got Colossus 2, and that portends good Colossus 2, and that portends good Colossus 2, and that portends good things for Grock 5. He's going to be things for Grock 5. He's going to be things for Grock 5. He's going to be trained on the largest cluster of trained on the largest cluster of trained on the largest cluster of Blackwells. So, in any event, you got Blackwells. So, in any event, you got Blackwells. So, in any event, you got all these companies that are doing all these companies that are doing all these companies that are doing pretty well. I guess Meta has sort of pretty well. I guess Meta has sort of pretty well. I guess Meta has sort of hit some headwinds, but they're going to hit some headwinds, but they're going to hit some headwinds, but they're going to continue investing tremendously in AI continue investing tremendously in AI continue investing tremendously in AI and they've got deep pockets to do it. and they've got deep pockets to do it. and they've got deep pockets to do it. So, I think that they'll come back. And So, I think that they'll come back. And So, I think that they'll come back. And you know what you see is all these you know what you see is all these you know what you see is all these companies are kind of leapronging each companies are kind of leapronging each companies are kind of leapronging each other. you get a new version and then other. you get a new version and then other. you get a new version and then they sort of leaprog each other in terms they sort of leaprog each other in terms they sort of leaprog each other in terms of of of >> the leaderboards are showing that yes >> the leaderboards are showing that yes >> the leaderboards are showing that yes saxs when you look at the leaderboard saxs when you look at the leaderboard saxs when you look at the leaderboard it's constantly Grock comes above Gemini it's constantly Grock comes above Gemini it's constantly Grock comes above Gemini Gemini comes Gemini comes Gemini comes >> there's a lot of leaprogging going on >> there's a lot of leaprogging going on >> there's a lot of leaprogging going on there's a lot of also I'd say there's a lot of also I'd say there's a lot of also I'd say specialization now going on in the ways specialization now going on in the ways specialization now going on in the ways that I just mentioned all these that I just mentioned all these that I just mentioned all these companies are developing strengths companies are developing strengths companies are developing strengths there's sort of verticals happening there's sort of verticals happening there's sort of verticals happening >> yes >> yes >> yes >> and so I've described this as sort of a >> and so I've described this as sort of a >> and so I've described this as sort of a a goldilock scenario where you're making a goldilock scenario where you're making a goldilock scenario where you're making a lot of progress in AI but the market a lot of progress in AI but the market a lot of progress in AI but the market is remaining very competitive ideally it is remaining very competitive ideally it is remaining very competitive ideally it does not consolidate just to on monopoly does not consolidate just to on monopoly does not consolidate just to on monopoly player like we've seen in other tech player like we've seen in other tech player like we've seen in other tech markets because then you end up with a markets because then you end up with a markets because then you end up with a big tech company that's got too much big tech company that's got too much big tech company that's got too much power and control. That's not generally power and control. That's not generally power and control. That's not generally a great thing for consumers versus a great thing for consumers versus a great thing for consumers versus China. What does it say versus us versus China. What does it say versus us versus China. What does it say versus us versus China? That that was the dialogue a year China? That that was the dialogue a year China? That that was the dialogue a year ago. Oh my god, China. Oh my god, China. ago. Oh my god, China. Oh my god, China. ago. Oh my god, China. Oh my god, China. Where are we at today? Because this is Where are we at today? Because this is Where are we at today? Because this is impressive this vibrant competition. impressive this vibrant competition. impressive this vibrant competition. >> Well, look, competition brings out the >> Well, look, competition brings out the >> Well, look, competition brings out the best in the American system. And I think best in the American system. And I think best in the American system. And I think that that is what creates the most that that is what creates the most that that is what creates the most progress and that's what's going to progress and that's what's going to progress and that's what's going to allow us to win the AI race against allow us to win the AI race against allow us to win the AI race against China. China has a lot of competition China. China has a lot of competition China. China has a lot of competition too, but they do tend to anoint national too, but they do tend to anoint national too, but they do tend to anoint national champions more. I guess they usually do champions more. I guess they usually do champions more. I guess they usually do it more after a competition stage. So, it more after a competition stage. So, it more after a competition stage. So, you know, maybe it doesn't prevent you know, maybe it doesn't prevent you know, maybe it doesn't prevent competition, but look, China's competition, but look, China's competition, but look, China's formidable. They got a lot of good AI formidable. They got a lot of good AI formidable. They got a lot of good AI companies, too. And this is going to be companies, too. And this is going to be companies, too. And this is going to be a horse race, but again, there's no a horse race, but again, there's no a horse race, but again, there's no question that the system question that the system question that the system >> for sure. But look, there's no question >> for sure. But look, there's no question >> for sure. But look, there's no question that in the American system, uh, the that in the American system, uh, the that in the American system, uh, the it's competition that brings out the it's competition that brings out the it's competition that brings out the best. And that's what we're seeing right best. And that's what we're seeing right best. And that's what we're seeing right now. now. now. >> Jason, what do you think? >> Jason, what do you think? >> Jason, what do you think? >> Interestingly, I just want to build a >> Interestingly, I just want to build a >> Interestingly, I just want to build a little bit on what Freeberg showed. The little bit on what Freeberg showed. The little bit on what Freeberg showed. The way I'm sort of seeing this is now chat way I'm sort of seeing this is now chat way I'm sort of seeing this is now chat GPT versus the world 36 months ago, chat GPT versus the world 36 months ago, chat GPT versus the world 36 months ago, chat GPT, OpenAI had 100%, right? They GPT, OpenAI had 100%, right? They GPT, OpenAI had 100%, right? They started the category as you pointed out started the category as you pointed out started the category as you pointed out correctly, David. And um, their decline correctly, David. And um, their decline correctly, David. And um, their decline in market share is increasing in in market share is increasing in in market share is increasing in velocity. Uh if we were looking at just velocity. Uh if we were looking at just velocity. Uh if we were looking at just 12 months ago, they had 84% of the space 12 months ago, they had 84% of the space 12 months ago, they had 84% of the space and uh now they're at 68. So they and uh now they're at 68. So they and uh now they're at 68. So they they've this is accelerating. You they've this is accelerating. You they've this is accelerating. You pointed out Chamath correctly why it's pointed out Chamath correctly why it's pointed out Chamath correctly why it's accelerating. Distribution matters. accelerating. Distribution matters. accelerating. Distribution matters. We've talked about it countless times We've talked about it countless times We've talked about it countless times here. Meta is forcing you to use their here. Meta is forcing you to use their here. Meta is forcing you to use their AI search, which is pretty bad. I'll be AI search, which is pretty bad. I'll be AI search, which is pretty bad. I'll be honest. every time you do a search on honest. every time you do a search on honest. every time you do a search on Instagram, it's annoying. But those all Instagram, it's annoying. But those all Instagram, it's annoying. But those all count as users using the product just count as users using the product just count as users using the product just like Slack face competition from like Slack face competition from like Slack face competition from Microsoft Teams when it bundled. And so Microsoft Teams when it bundled. And so Microsoft Teams when it bundled. And so I just tracked this out and this is what I just tracked this out and this is what I just tracked this out and this is what I think is going to happen over the next I think is going to happen over the next I think is going to happen over the next four years. I think we're going to see four years. I think we're going to see four years. I think we're going to see Open AI go down to about a third of the Open AI go down to about a third of the Open AI go down to about a third of the market and I think the other players are market and I think the other players are market and I think the other players are going to take two/3s. The reason I think going to take two/3s. The reason I think going to take two/3s. The reason I think this is because to Sax's point, this is because to Sax's point, this is because to Sax's point, specialization's happening. If you look specialization's happening. If you look specialization's happening. If you look at Nano Banana, which is the image at Nano Banana, which is the image at Nano Banana, which is the image processing over at um Google, it's processing over at um Google, it's processing over at um Google, it's fantastic. Grock image is fantastic. So, fantastic. Grock image is fantastic. So, fantastic. Grock image is fantastic. So, you're going to have four different five you're going to have four different five you're going to have four different five different choices for images. You're different choices for images. You're different choices for images. You're going to have four or five different going to have four or five different going to have four or five different really credible choices. Now, you have really credible choices. Now, you have really credible choices. Now, you have to look also at the competition and what to look also at the competition and what to look also at the competition and what Sam is facing. I've known Sam 20 years Sam is facing. I've known Sam 20 years Sam is facing. I've known Sam 20 years now. He is a consmate dealmaker, perhaps now. He is a consmate dealmaker, perhaps now. He is a consmate dealmaker, perhaps too good at dealmaking. He was too good at dealmaking. He was too good at dealmaking. He was incredible at recruiting and his PR game incredible at recruiting and his PR game incredible at recruiting and his PR game was very strong. Everybody realizes was very strong. Everybody realizes was very strong. Everybody realizes that. And look at who he's facing. that. And look at who he's facing. that. And look at who he's facing. Freeberg. Elon Agra Sergey and Sundar at Freeberg. Elon Agra Sergey and Sundar at Freeberg. Elon Agra Sergey and Sundar at Google. Zuckerberg at Meta Dario Google. Zuckerberg at Meta Dario Google. Zuckerberg at Meta Dario Sati at Microsoft who's his partner Sati at Microsoft who's his partner Sati at Microsoft who's his partner who's now his competitor. Elon was his who's now his competitor. Elon was his who's now his competitor. Elon was his benefactor now his competitor. You got benefactor now his competitor. You got benefactor now his competitor. You got the open- source projects, Deepseek, the open- source projects, Deepseek, the open- source projects, Deepseek, etc. Sachs in China. And then his former etc. Sachs in China. And then his former etc. Sachs in China. And then his former employees are trying to kill him as employees are trying to kill him as employees are trying to kill him as well. So you have Ilia doing safe super well. So you have Ilia doing safe super well. So you have Ilia doing safe super intelligence which hasn't launched yet intelligence which hasn't launched yet intelligence which hasn't launched yet and Meera doing thinking machine. She's and Meera doing thinking machine. She's and Meera doing thinking machine. She's you know obviously was doing all the you know obviously was doing all the you know obviously was doing all the video stuff. So I think what we're going video stuff. So I think what we're going video stuff. So I think what we're going to see here if we're sitting here I to see here if we're sitting here I to see here if we're sitting here I don't know next year they're going to be don't know next year they're going to be don't know next year they're going to be in the next 12 to 24 months under 50%. in the next 12 to 24 months under 50%. in the next 12 to 24 months under 50%. And these companies are explicitly And these companies are explicitly And these companies are explicitly trying to kill open AI. They the amount trying to kill open AI. They the amount trying to kill open AI. They the amount of bad will that Sam has built is of bad will that Sam has built is of bad will that Sam has built is colossal and I think it's from doing too colossal and I think it's from doing too colossal and I think it's from doing too many deals. And if you look at what he many deals. And if you look at what he many deals. And if you look at what he did to Nvidia, Nvidia put out a did to Nvidia, Nvidia put out a did to Nvidia, Nvidia put out a statement recently that they have the statement recently that they have the statement recently that they have the option to invest. So we were sitting option to invest. So we were sitting option to invest. So we were sitting here two months ago and I know people in here two months ago and I know people in here two months ago and I know people in the industry were staying up late at the industry were staying up late at the industry were staying up late at night worrying about all these deals Sam night worrying about all these deals Sam night worrying about all these deals Sam were was doing. All those deals were was doing. All those deals were was doing. All those deals apparently are coming out that they're apparently are coming out that they're apparently are coming out that they're options. These weren't real deals. A lot options. These weren't real deals. A lot options. These weren't real deals. A lot of them were options. And so Jensen came of them were options. And so Jensen came of them were options. And so Jensen came out and said, "Hey, we have the out and said, "Hey, we have the out and said, "Hey, we have the opportunity to invest in OpenAI." But opportunity to invest in OpenAI." But opportunity to invest in OpenAI." But you remember Sam did that AMD deal the you remember Sam did that AMD deal the you remember Sam did that AMD deal the week after he or two weeks after he did week after he or two weeks after he did week after he or two weeks after he did the OpenAI deal. A lot of this is the OpenAI deal. A lot of this is the OpenAI deal. A lot of this is creating bad feelings. And I think we're creating bad feelings. And I think we're creating bad feelings. And I think we're at peak OpenAI right now. I said it on at peak OpenAI right now. I said it on at peak OpenAI right now. I said it on the show a couple weeks ago. I think the the show a couple weeks ago. I think the the show a couple weeks ago. I think the pair trade is to to bet against every pair trade is to to bet against every pair trade is to to bet against every it's Chat GPT versus the world. And I it's Chat GPT versus the world. And I it's Chat GPT versus the world. And I think the world wins two/3s. think the world wins two/3s. think the world wins two/3s. >> They can still be in a good place. I >> They can still be in a good place. I >> They can still be in a good place. I think you're right that this market think you're right that this market think you're right that this market probably gets split up three or four probably gets split up three or four probably gets split up three or four ways. And so the winner probably gets a ways. And so the winner probably gets a ways. And so the winner probably gets a third of the market. Most other markets third of the market. Most other markets third of the market. Most other markets that end up in a three or four person that end up in a three or four person that end up in a three or four person race ends up in that space. But a third race ends up in that space. But a third race ends up in that space. But a third of a market can still be very valuable of a market can still be very valuable of a market can still be very valuable if that market has five or six billion if that market has five or six billion if that market has five or six billion people using it. people using it. people using it. >> Absolutely. It's going to be tremendous. >> Absolutely. It's going to be tremendous. >> Absolutely. It's going to be tremendous. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And that can still support a multi-t >> And that can still support a multi-t >> And that can still support a multi-t trillion dollar market cap. So I don't trillion dollar market cap. So I don't trillion dollar market cap. So I don't think it's it's by any means a death think it's it's by any means a death think it's it's by any means a death nail for open AI, but it does mean that nail for open AI, but it does mean that nail for open AI, but it does mean that a lot of these projects probably need to a lot of these projects probably need to a lot of these projects probably need to get shuttered because you need to just get shuttered because you need to just get shuttered because you need to just do a few things very very well because do a few things very very well because do a few things very very well because consumers will start to split their consumers will start to split their consumers will start to split their purchasing decisions if you will or purchasing decisions if you will or purchasing decisions if you will or their usage decisions across vertical their usage decisions across vertical their usage decisions across vertical things for specific purposes. So yes, I things for specific purposes. So yes, I things for specific purposes. So yes, I may use Grock image because I love that may use Grock image because I love that may use Grock image because I love that and it's just much better. But then I and it's just much better. But then I and it's just much better. But then I may use Enthropic for codegen while I may use Enthropic for codegen while I may use Enthropic for codegen while I use Gemini for deep research and then I use Gemini for deep research and then I use Gemini for deep research and then I use chat GPT for conversational search. use chat GPT for conversational search. use chat GPT for conversational search. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Now all of a sudden I'm using all four. >> Now all of a sudden I'm using all four. >> Now all of a sudden I'm using all four. That's highly realistic that outcome. In That's highly realistic that outcome. In That's highly realistic that outcome. In fact, I look at my phone now. I try to fact, I look at my phone now. I try to fact, I look at my phone now. I try to limit the number of apps on the phone, limit the number of apps on the phone, limit the number of apps on the phone, but I have Gemini and Grock as the two but I have Gemini and Grock as the two but I have Gemini and Grock as the two anchor apps. anchor apps. anchor apps. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Because I'm so reliant on both of them >> Because I'm so reliant on both of them >> Because I'm so reliant on both of them and I just keep going back and forth and I just keep going back and forth and I just keep going back and forth between them. Interestingly, I have between them. Interestingly, I have between them. Interestingly, I have four. I have Claude also in perplexity four. I have Claude also in perplexity four. I have Claude also in perplexity on my on my desktop. And I go through on my on my desktop. And I go through on my on my desktop. And I go through all four of them. Here's what Google and all four of them. Here's what Google and all four of them. Here's what Google and other folks are planning. They're going other folks are planning. They're going other folks are planning. They're going to take the main revenue stream of to take the main revenue stream of to take the main revenue stream of OpenAI and they're going to suck the OpenAI and they're going to suck the OpenAI and they're going to suck the oxygen out of the room and they're going oxygen out of the room and they're going oxygen out of the room and they're going to try to strangle Sam and the team over to try to strangle Sam and the team over to try to strangle Sam and the team over there by making it free. So, right now, there by making it free. So, right now, there by making it free. So, right now, if 75% of that if 75% of that if 75% of that >> metaphor, >> metaphor, >> metaphor, >> very, very vital, but this is war. This >> very, very vital, but this is war. This >> very, very vital, but this is war. This is the greatest battle we've seen since is the greatest battle we've seen since is the greatest battle we've seen since like Netscape versus Microsoft and the like Netscape versus Microsoft and the like Netscape versus Microsoft and the internet. They're going to make Gemini internet. They're going to make Gemini internet. They're going to make Gemini free for life for the best models. free for life for the best models. free for life for the best models. That's my prediction for Google and I That's my prediction for Google and I That's my prediction for Google and I think Meta will be right behind them. think Meta will be right behind them. think Meta will be right behind them. Why? They have the ad network already Why? They have the ad network already Why? They have the ad network already built and they know in that fierce built and they know in that fierce built and they know in that fierce competition which you were part of competition which you were part of competition which you were part of Chimoth and Freeberg how fierce that Chimoth and Freeberg how fierce that Chimoth and Freeberg how fierce that competition was that duopoly does not competition was that duopoly does not competition was that duopoly does not want to become a a throppple with Sam. I want to become a a throppple with Sam. I want to become a a throppple with Sam. I think this is going to be very analogous think this is going to be very analogous think this is going to be very analogous to what happened with Netscape. People to what happened with Netscape. People to what happened with Netscape. People used to pay 50 bucks for a Netscape used to pay 50 bucks for a Netscape used to pay 50 bucks for a Netscape browser and then the idea when Microsoft browser and then the idea when Microsoft browser and then the idea when Microsoft came in and made it free and uh Chrome came in and made it free and uh Chrome came in and made it free and uh Chrome became free and Dolphin browser and a became free and Dolphin browser and a became free and Dolphin browser and a million other uh providers. Same thing's million other uh providers. Same thing's million other uh providers. Same thing's going to happen to Chat GPT. Right now going to happen to Chat GPT. Right now going to happen to Chat GPT. Right now 80% of the revenue comes from $20 80% of the revenue comes from $20 80% of the revenue comes from $20 subscriptions. That's going to get subscriptions. That's going to get subscriptions. That's going to get decimated to zero. I don't think decimated to zero. I don't think decimated to zero. I don't think consumers are going to pay for this consumers are going to pay for this consumers are going to pay for this product just like they won't pay for product just like they won't pay for product just like they won't pay for search and they won't pay for a browser search and they won't pay for a browser search and they won't pay for a browser because Google and Meta will make it because Google and Meta will make it because Google and Meta will make it free. free. free. >> I think it's different reason actually. >> I think it's different reason actually. >> I think it's different reason actually. The reason why they will do it, The reason why they will do it, The reason why they will do it, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> is because they have such an inordinate >> is because they have such an inordinate >> is because they have such an inordinate amount of cash and that cash is amount of cash and that cash is amount of cash and that cash is valueless on the balance sheet. valueless on the balance sheet. valueless on the balance sheet. >> So, you might as well just rip it in. If >> So, you might as well just rip it in. If >> So, you might as well just rip it in. If you look at the companies that have you look at the companies that have you look at the companies that have >> a need to spend money right now, it's >> a need to spend money right now, it's >> a need to spend money right now, it's Google, it's Microsoft, it's Meta, it's Google, it's Microsoft, it's Meta, it's Google, it's Microsoft, it's Meta, it's Nvidia, Nvidia, Nvidia, and maybe Broadcom, but let's just keep and maybe Broadcom, but let's just keep and maybe Broadcom, but let's just keep Broadcom out of it. But Apple's there, Broadcom out of it. But Apple's there, Broadcom out of it. But Apple's there, too. too. too. >> And Apple. >> And Apple. >> And Apple. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> All of those companies have so much >> All of those companies have so much >> All of those companies have so much cash. If you actually look at the DCF of cash. If you actually look at the DCF of cash. If you actually look at the DCF of the enterprise value of these the enterprise value of these the enterprise value of these businesses, it gets very little credit businesses, it gets very little credit businesses, it gets very little credit for that cash almost to the point where for that cash almost to the point where for that cash almost to the point where it's worthless. And so you either need it's worthless. And so you either need it's worthless. And so you either need to spend it on M&A, spend it on to spend it on M&A, spend it on to spend it on M&A, spend it on buybacks, or spend it to subsidize a buybacks, or spend it to subsidize a buybacks, or spend it to subsidize a product so that you can maintain your product so that you can maintain your product so that you can maintain your leadership in the broader market. And so leadership in the broader market. And so leadership in the broader market. And so what you're going to see is these big what you're going to see is these big what you're going to see is these big companies do this capital allocation companies do this capital allocation companies do this capital allocation model in a much more aggressive way. So model in a much more aggressive way. So model in a much more aggressive way. So there's only so many share buybacks that there's only so many share buybacks that there's only so many share buybacks that these guys can do. they approve 50, 60, these guys can do. they approve 50, 60, these guys can do. they approve 50, 60, 70, 80 billion dollars in buybacks. It 70, 80 billion dollars in buybacks. It 70, 80 billion dollars in buybacks. It just doesn't lift the stock price the just doesn't lift the stock price the just doesn't lift the stock price the same way it does when you actually show same way it does when you actually show same way it does when you actually show leadership in a product category. Right. leadership in a product category. Right. leadership in a product category. Right. >> So to your point, if you're just going >> So to your point, if you're just going >> So to your point, if you're just going to underwrite a decision, just look at to underwrite a decision, just look at to underwrite a decision, just look at the last 3 weeks of Google's stock the last 3 weeks of Google's stock the last 3 weeks of Google's stock performance, it basically doubled performance, it basically doubled performance, it basically doubled >> once we thought that Gemini was >> once we thought that Gemini was >> once we thought that Gemini was incredible. And so incredible. And so incredible. And so >> if you want to make Gemini even more >> if you want to make Gemini even more >> if you want to make Gemini even more incredible, just get pour another incredible, just get pour another incredible, just get pour another billion users into it. And if that cost billion users into it. And if that cost billion users into it. And if that cost you 50 billion, it's okay because you'll you 50 billion, it's okay because you'll you 50 billion, it's okay because you'll make a trillion of market cap. It's like make a trillion of market cap. It's like make a trillion of market cap. It's like a no-brainer. a no-brainer. a no-brainer. >> Yeah. And and think about all the >> Yeah. And and think about all the >> Yeah. And and think about all the reinforcement learning that those big reinforcement learning that those big reinforcement learning that those big players have at scale. I think it's players have at scale. I think it's players have at scale. I think it's going to be just, going to be just, going to be just, >> by the way, the other the other thing is >> by the way, the other the other thing is >> by the way, the other the other thing is if we're playing conspiracy theorist, I if we're playing conspiracy theorist, I if we're playing conspiracy theorist, I think the reason why Sam did those deals think the reason why Sam did those deals think the reason why Sam did those deals to your point, he is a consumate, very to your point, he is a consumate, very to your point, he is a consumate, very talented dealmaker. talented dealmaker. talented dealmaker. >> Yes. is probably because he needed to >> Yes. is probably because he needed to >> Yes. is probably because he needed to continue to generate the type of continue to generate the type of continue to generate the type of momentum required to raise the quantum momentum required to raise the quantum momentum required to raise the quantum of capital that he needs. of capital that he needs. of capital that he needs. >> So if you're silent, it's much harder to >> So if you're silent, it's much harder to >> So if you're silent, it's much harder to raise a hundred billion dollars and raise a hundred billion dollars and raise a hundred billion dollars and you're shucking and jing and you're just you're shucking and jing and you're just you're shucking and jing and you're just putting a lot of things out there that putting a lot of things out there that putting a lot of things out there that could convince people that there's a could convince people that there's a could convince people that there's a level of momentum that's worth level of momentum that's worth level of momentum that's worth underwriting at a much higher valuation. underwriting at a much higher valuation. underwriting at a much higher valuation. So you have to keep that in mind, too. So you have to keep that in mind, too. So you have to keep that in mind, too. >> Yes, I think that that is his highlevel, >> Yes, I think that that is his highlevel, >> Yes, I think that that is his highlevel, you know, 4D chess. I think Nvidia is you know, 4D chess. I think Nvidia is you know, 4D chess. I think Nvidia is predicting it now. I think Nvidia is not predicting it now. I think Nvidia is not predicting it now. I think Nvidia is not going to take their option to invest in going to take their option to invest in going to take their option to invest in OpenAI or they're going to really OpenAI or they're going to really OpenAI or they're going to really downgrade it 70 80% and they're going to downgrade it 70 80% and they're going to downgrade it 70 80% and they're going to allocate it to other players. Freeberg, allocate it to other players. Freeberg, allocate it to other players. Freeberg, any final thoughts here as we wrap up on any final thoughts here as we wrap up on any final thoughts here as we wrap up on this? this? this? >> What is your B what's your basis for >> What is your B what's your basis for >> What is your B what's your basis for that prediction? that prediction? that prediction? >> I think that Nvidia is wants to own more >> I think that Nvidia is wants to own more >> I think that Nvidia is wants to own more of the other players. I do actually have of the other players. I do actually have of the other players. I do actually have a basis for this. I think that they were a basis for this. I think that they were a basis for this. I think that they were very pissed off at the other support he very pissed off at the other support he very pissed off at the other support he gave to their competitors. gave to their competitors. gave to their competitors. >> How do you know they closed that deal? I >> How do you know they closed that deal? I >> How do you know they closed that deal? I know a lot of people in the industry. know a lot of people in the industry. know a lot of people in the industry. >> You sound like the New York Times. >> You sound like the New York Times. >> You sound like the New York Times. >> Okay. Well, great segue. >> Okay. Well, great segue. >> Okay. Well, great segue. >> Everybody knows. What's your source? >> Everybody knows. What's your source? >> Everybody knows. What's your source? >> Everybody reveal my sources say >> Everybody reveal my sources say >> Everybody reveal my sources say >> sources say >> sources say >> sources say >> open secret. >> open secret. >> open secret. >> Sources say sorry. I'll just let me just >> Sources say sorry. I'll just let me just >> Sources say sorry. I'll just let me just wrap up on the on the wrap up on the on the wrap up on the on the >> and I'll just I'll just echo a little >> and I'll just I'll just echo a little >> and I'll just I'll just echo a little bit what Jim said. I don't think that bit what Jim said. I don't think that bit what Jim said. I don't think that the battle is going to be won and lost the battle is going to be won and lost the battle is going to be won and lost on LLMs. I think that there's several on LLMs. I think that there's several on LLMs. I think that there's several fronts and we're so early in AI. It's fronts and we're so early in AI. It's fronts and we're so early in AI. It's not going to necessarily just be about not going to necessarily just be about not going to necessarily just be about textbased token production. textbased token production. textbased token production. These non-extbased models, the nonLLM These non-extbased models, the nonLLM These non-extbased models, the nonLLM models, the complexity to them and the models, the complexity to them and the models, the complexity to them and the differentiation is so much wider than it differentiation is so much wider than it differentiation is so much wider than it is in LLM. Kind of think about it in I I is in LLM. Kind of think about it in I I is in LLM. Kind of think about it in I I think about it in terms of like a Holde think about it in terms of like a Holde think about it in terms of like a Holde versus Omaha game. Like the difference versus Omaha game. Like the difference versus Omaha game. Like the difference between the median and the best player between the median and the best player between the median and the best player in an Omaha game is so significant in an Omaha game is so significant in an Omaha game is so significant compared to the median and the best compared to the median and the best compared to the median and the best player in a hold game because it's just player in a hold game because it's just player in a hold game because it's just so much more complex. I don't know if so much more complex. I don't know if so much more complex. I don't know if you remember this guy Chris Ferguson. He you remember this guy Chris Ferguson. He you remember this guy Chris Ferguson. He used to win every Omaha tournament back used to win every Omaha tournament back used to win every Omaha tournament back in the day because he was one of the in the day because he was one of the in the day because he was one of the first guys to figure it out. So everyone first guys to figure it out. So everyone first guys to figure it out. So everyone that knew Holde thought that they could that knew Holde thought that they could that knew Holde thought that they could just step into Omaha and because he just step into Omaha and because he just step into Omaha and because he figured out how to do Omaha, he just figured out how to do Omaha, he just figured out how to do Omaha, he just wrecked everyone consistently. Anyway, wrecked everyone consistently. Anyway, wrecked everyone consistently. Anyway, in video for example, right, they use in video for example, right, they use in video for example, right, they use diffusion models and then they also use diffusion models and then they also use diffusion models and then they also use a transformer architecture and then they a transformer architecture and then they a transformer architecture and then they use these convolutional neural networks use these convolutional neural networks use these convolutional neural networks to create structure within the frame and to create structure within the frame and to create structure within the frame and continue structure between frames and continue structure between frames and continue structure between frames and video. There are multiple models that video. There are multiple models that video. There are multiple models that have to interact and work together to have to interact and work together to have to interact and work together to render video. So you have to have good render video. So you have to have good render video. So you have to have good training. You also have to have unique training. You also have to have unique training. You also have to have unique architecture. And so the amount of architecture. And so the amount of architecture. And so the amount of differentiation that's possible in video differentiation that's possible in video differentiation that's possible in video AI is I would say this point today so AI is I would say this point today so AI is I would say this point today so much wider than the differentiation in much wider than the differentiation in much wider than the differentiation in textbased AI like what we see with LLMs. textbased AI like what we see with LLMs. textbased AI like what we see with LLMs. As those things start to become more As those things start to become more As those things start to become more mainstream, I think that applications mainstream, I think that applications mainstream, I think that applications that we are not necessarily thinking that we are not necessarily thinking that we are not necessarily thinking about today are going to become a bigger about today are going to become a bigger about today are going to become a bigger use case for how we spend our time. And use case for how we spend our time. And use case for how we spend our time. And that is really when you'll start to see, that is really when you'll start to see, that is really when you'll start to see, you know, this horse race start to kind you know, this horse race start to kind you know, this horse race start to kind of play out a little bit more of play out a little bit more of play out a little bit more differently than it does today where differently than it does today where differently than it does today where everything's all about usage on a chat everything's all about usage on a chat everything's all about usage on a chat interface. We're going to look back at interface. We're going to look back at interface. We're going to look back at that one day. It's going to be the that one day. It's going to be the that one day. It's going to be the equivalent of everyone on AOL Instant equivalent of everyone on AOL Instant equivalent of everyone on AOL Instant Messenger or Yahoo Instant Messenger. Messenger or Yahoo Instant Messenger. Messenger or Yahoo Instant Messenger. It's like, who gives a [ __ ] That's not It's like, who gives a [ __ ] That's not It's like, who gives a [ __ ] That's not really where the game's going to be really where the game's going to be really where the game's going to be played. played. played. >> While we're speaking, Gemini just >> While we're speaking, Gemini just >> While we're speaking, Gemini just released Gemini 3. Deep Think is here. released Gemini 3. Deep Think is here. released Gemini 3. Deep Think is here. So, the race is continuing even as we're So, the race is continuing even as we're So, the race is continuing even as we're taping the show. Let me add one more taping the show. Let me add one more taping the show. Let me add one more thing which is I don't know just a few thing which is I don't know just a few thing which is I don't know just a few months ago on this show maybe it was months ago on this show maybe it was months ago on this show maybe it was three months ago maybe it was six months three months ago maybe it was six months three months ago maybe it was six months ago we were all like giving eulogies for ago we were all like giving eulogies for ago we were all like giving eulogies for Google Google Google >> I wasn't I was not I took the other side >> I wasn't I was not I took the other side >> I wasn't I was not I took the other side >> well I mean I don't know there are a lot >> well I mean I don't know there are a lot >> well I mean I don't know there are a lot of people were and I I was definitely of people were and I I was definitely of people were and I I was definitely >> I think the majority of the industry was >> I think the majority of the industry was >> I think the majority of the industry was I I did take the other side of it yeah I I did take the other side of it yeah I I did take the other side of it yeah >> I think Brag Gurley and uh sorry Brad >> I think Brag Gurley and uh sorry Brad >> I think Brag Gurley and uh sorry Brad Gersonner and Bill Gurley were Gersonner and Bill Gurley were Gersonner and Bill Gurley were >> Brad Gurley the bragly show >> Brad Gurley the bragly show >> Brad Gurley the bragly show >> bragly show >> bragly show >> bragly show >> it's one person >> it's one person >> it's one person >> Brad Gurley definitely were and look and >> Brad Gurley definitely were and look and >> Brad Gurley definitely were and look and the argument made a lot of sense which the argument made a lot of sense which the argument made a lot of sense which was this, which is even if you believe was this, which is even if you believe was this, which is even if you believe that Google's going to come back and that Google's going to come back and that Google's going to come back and have a credible AI product, remember have a credible AI product, remember have a credible AI product, remember they were caught completely flatfooted they were caught completely flatfooted they were caught completely flatfooted by this. They figured out the by this. They figured out the by this. They figured out the transformer architecture back in 2017, transformer architecture back in 2017, transformer architecture back in 2017, but then they didn't really do anything but then they didn't really do anything but then they didn't really do anything with it and then OpenAI grabbed on to with it and then OpenAI grabbed on to with it and then OpenAI grabbed on to that and then like you showed on that that and then like you showed on that that and then like you showed on that chart, they basically had a 2-year head chart, they basically had a 2-year head chart, they basically had a 2-year head start on LLMs. start on LLMs. start on LLMs. So, a lot of people were basically So, a lot of people were basically So, a lot of people were basically saying that this was it for Google saying that this was it for Google saying that this was it for Google because obviously LLMs are so much because obviously LLMs are so much because obviously LLMs are so much better at web search than the 10 blue better at web search than the 10 blue better at web search than the 10 blue links. And moreover, for monetization, links. And moreover, for monetization, links. And moreover, for monetization, why would you need to have, you know, ad why would you need to have, you know, ad why would you need to have, you know, ad links or paid links in an LLM world? And links or paid links in an LLM world? And links or paid links in an LLM world? And and I think the point that Brad and Bill and I think the point that Brad and Bill and I think the point that Brad and Bill were making is again, even if Google were making is again, even if Google were making is again, even if Google catches up, they'll never have the catches up, they'll never have the catches up, they'll never have the dominant position in AI that they have dominant position in AI that they have dominant position in AI that they have in search. It still might be true. Who in search. It still might be true. Who in search. It still might be true. Who knows? But the point is just everyone knows? But the point is just everyone knows? But the point is just everyone was saying that Google was in deep was saying that Google was in deep was saying that Google was in deep trouble just I don't know 6 months ago trouble just I don't know 6 months ago trouble just I don't know 6 months ago and then like you said I think Sergey and then like you said I think Sergey and then like you said I think Sergey came back and that gave them a major came back and that gave them a major came back and that gave them a major shot in the arm and they got more shot in the arm and they got more shot in the arm and they got more focused and now they've launched what focused and now they've launched what focused and now they've launched what appears to be the best or one of the appears to be the best or one of the appears to be the best or one of the best models best models best models >> a competitive >> a competitive >> a competitive >> but look these other companies there's >> but look these other companies there's >> but look these other companies there's there's a lot of leaprogging going on. there's a lot of leaprogging going on. there's a lot of leaprogging going on. >> I think really importantly it's not just >> I think really importantly it's not just >> I think really importantly it's not just about Sergey coming back it's about about Sergey coming back it's about about Sergey coming back it's about giving themselves permission to take giving themselves permission to take giving themselves permission to take risk. The reason Google didn't lead into risk. The reason Google didn't lead into risk. The reason Google didn't lead into AI for years, even though they had the AI for years, even though they had the AI for years, even though they had the technology sacks, is because they were technology sacks, is because they were technology sacks, is because they were nervous about cannibalization to search, nervous about cannibalization to search, nervous about cannibalization to search, they were nervous about the the quality they were nervous about the the quality they were nervous about the the quality of the product. They didn't want to of the product. They didn't want to of the product. They didn't want to release things too early. And then they release things too early. And then they release things too early. And then they changed their posture and they became a changed their posture and they became a changed their posture and they became a more risk-taking posture. And that gave more risk-taking posture. And that gave more risk-taking posture. And that gave them the permission to run, which by the them the permission to run, which by the them the permission to run, which by the way, I would argue is the opposite at way, I would argue is the opposite at way, I would argue is the opposite at OpenAI in the last couple months. I used OpenAI in the last couple months. I used OpenAI in the last couple months. I used to use advanced voice on chat GPT all to use advanced voice on chat GPT all to use advanced voice on chat GPT all the time. I cannot stand it anymore. I the time. I cannot stand it anymore. I the time. I cannot stand it anymore. I do not use it. It has basically hedged do not use it. It has basically hedged do not use it. It has basically hedged away all of the value because it tries away all of the value because it tries away all of the value because it tries to be polite. It tries to make sure that to be polite. It tries to make sure that to be polite. It tries to make sure that it's giving you warnings all the time. it's giving you warnings all the time. it's giving you warnings all the time. It doesn't want to give you data because It doesn't want to give you data because It doesn't want to give you data because it's scared that it might give you the it's scared that it might give you the it's scared that it might give you the wrong data. You can see it used to give wrong data. You can see it used to give wrong data. You can see it used to give you data all the time. I cannot get it you data all the time. I cannot get it you data all the time. I cannot get it to give me numbers anymore. I'm like, to give me numbers anymore. I'm like, to give me numbers anymore. I'm like, give me the numbers and it just says give me the numbers and it just says give me the numbers and it just says these kind of highle arching statements these kind of highle arching statements these kind of highle arching statements and I'm like that's not what I want. I and I'm like that's not what I want. I and I'm like that's not what I want. I went over to Gemini. It gave me the went over to Gemini. It gave me the went over to Gemini. It gave me the numbers. And I think that Google's numbers. And I think that Google's numbers. And I think that Google's willingness to take risk has really kind willingness to take risk has really kind willingness to take risk has really kind of highlighted the difference in posture of highlighted the difference in posture of highlighted the difference in posture in the last year. Chat GPT is now acting in the last year. Chat GPT is now acting in the last year. Chat GPT is now acting and OpenAI has been acting like an and OpenAI has been acting like an and OpenAI has been acting like an incumbent, fearful of losing market incumbent, fearful of losing market incumbent, fearful of losing market share and fearful of getting attacked in share and fearful of getting attacked in share and fearful of getting attacked in the media and attacked by consumers for the media and attacked by consumers for the media and attacked by consumers for saying the wrong thing. And so they've saying the wrong thing. And so they've saying the wrong thing. And so they've taken this kind of defensive posture taken this kind of defensive posture taken this kind of defensive posture that I think has fundamentally damaged that I think has fundamentally damaged that I think has fundamentally damaged the product and the brand. the product and the brand. the product and the brand. >> I'm just having a great time thinking >> I'm just having a great time thinking >> I'm just having a great time thinking about I'm thinking about Freeberg about I'm thinking about Freeberg about I'm thinking about Freeberg yelling at his AI assistant in his car. yelling at his AI assistant in his car. yelling at his AI assistant in his car. It's like we need to get make a short It's like we need to get make a short It's like we need to get make a short out of that. Keep going. Well, just out of that. Keep going. Well, just out of that. Keep going. Well, just Google did one other important thing. I Google did one other important thing. I Google did one other important thing. I mean, in addition to Sergey, there was mean, in addition to Sergey, there was mean, in addition to Sergey, there was putting Demis Hassabis in charge of all putting Demis Hassabis in charge of all putting Demis Hassabis in charge of all of AI because before I think he was just of AI because before I think he was just of AI because before I think he was just in charge of Google DeepMind, it was in charge of Google DeepMind, it was in charge of Google DeepMind, it was sort of a subset and then they put him sort of a subset and then they put him sort of a subset and then they put him in charge of the overall and I think in charge of the overall and I think in charge of the overall and I think that made a huge difference as well. that made a huge difference as well. that made a huge difference as well. >> Yeah. And the PI is growing. So, the >> Yeah. And the PI is growing. So, the >> Yeah. And the PI is growing. So, the number of searches, the number of number of searches, the number of number of searches, the number of queries is increasing dramatically. I queries is increasing dramatically. I queries is increasing dramatically. I think we'll have 20 30 times the amount think we'll have 20 30 times the amount think we'll have 20 30 times the amount of queries being done because the of queries being done because the of queries being done because the answers are better. It's not just answers are better. It's not just answers are better. It's not just queries. It's It's not just queries. queries. It's It's not just queries. queries. It's It's not just queries. This is my point. It's like more than This is my point. It's like more than This is my point. It's like more than you're not using it to do search you're not using it to do search you're not using it to do search anymore, right? You're using it to watch anymore, right? You're using it to watch anymore, right? You're using it to watch video. You're using it to book flights. video. You're using it to book flights. video. You're using it to book flights. >> Yeah. The agentic stuff. I'm putting >> Yeah. The agentic stuff. I'm putting >> Yeah. The agentic stuff. I'm putting that all together. So, the amount of that all together. So, the amount of that all together. So, the amount of utility that you can get from it is so utility that you can get from it is so utility that you can get from it is so great that it's going to go 20x. The great that it's going to go 20x. The great that it's going to go 20x. The same thing's happening with ride same thing's happening with ride same thing's happening with ride sharing. sharing. sharing. >> It's more than just search is the whole >> It's more than just search is the whole >> It's more than just search is the whole point. This has now become such an point. This has now become such an point. This has now become such an instrumental part of everything we do in instrumental part of everything we do in instrumental part of everything we do in our lives and it's going to take over our lives and it's going to take over our lives and it's going to take over more of how we spend our time in our more of how we spend our time in our more of how we spend our time in our lives that it's not just about search lives that it's not just about search lives that it's not just about search anymore. It's a whole new paradigm. anymore. It's a whole new paradigm. anymore. It's a whole new paradigm. >> The pie will be 20 times bigger. >> The pie will be 20 times bigger. >> The pie will be 20 times bigger. >> Let me ask you a very question. Do you >> Let me ask you a very question. Do you >> Let me ask you a very question. Do you think that OpenAI's sort of more think that OpenAI's sort of more think that OpenAI's sort of more conservative risk posture, do you think conservative risk posture, do you think conservative risk posture, do you think it's a function of the fact that whether it's a function of the fact that whether it's a function of the fact that whether by luck or design they decided that the by luck or design they decided that the by luck or design they decided that the consumer market was sort of their core consumer market was sort of their core consumer market was sort of their core market? Whereas you look at something market? Whereas you look at something market? Whereas you look at something like Anthropic, right, and they've like Anthropic, right, and they've like Anthropic, right, and they've carved out enterprise, but if you're a carved out enterprise, but if you're a carved out enterprise, but if you're a consumer product, there's so many more consumer product, there's so many more consumer product, there's so many more things you have to address things you have to address things you have to address >> and you're going to be attacked at so >> and you're going to be attacked at so >> and you're going to be attacked at so many more different ways. many more different ways. many more different ways. >> Yeah. And and by being the market >> Yeah. And and by being the market >> Yeah. And and by being the market incumbent, it actually ended up creating incumbent, it actually ended up creating incumbent, it actually ended up creating a fantastic foil for Google because they a fantastic foil for Google because they a fantastic foil for Google because they started getting all of the arrows and started getting all of the arrows and started getting all of the arrows and slings from the media about health slings from the media about health slings from the media about health advice and suicides and hallucinations advice and suicides and hallucinations advice and suicides and hallucinations and sending wrong information and all and sending wrong information and all and sending wrong information and all the risks and damage that that causes. the risks and damage that that causes. the risks and damage that that causes. Meanwhile, everyone's ju laughing and Meanwhile, everyone's ju laughing and Meanwhile, everyone's ju laughing and joking about Google and ignoring them. joking about Google and ignoring them. joking about Google and ignoring them. >> It was more than that. Remember, >> It was more than that. Remember, >> It was more than that. Remember, remember last summer there was the court remember last summer there was the court remember last summer there was the court case where the judge said that they were case where the judge said that they were case where the judge said that they were guilty of having the monopoly and then guilty of having the monopoly and then guilty of having the monopoly and then he was going to rule on what the he was going to rule on what the he was going to rule on what the remedies were going to be. And I think remedies were going to be. And I think remedies were going to be. And I think that was in what was it September that was in what was it September that was in what was it September >> and the judge said that during the >> and the judge said that during the >> and the judge said that during the summer and then whenever it was that he summer and then whenever it was that he summer and then whenever it was that he ruled on the remedy that they were ruled on the remedy that they were ruled on the remedy that they were existentially threatened in their search existentially threatened in their search existentially threatened in their search business and so everything had changed. business and so everything had changed. business and so everything had changed. >> Yeah. I mean >> Yeah. I mean >> Yeah. I mean >> so the company didn't get broken out. >> so the company didn't get broken out. >> so the company didn't get broken out. remember they were thinking about remember they were thinking about remember they were thinking about whether to spin out whether to spin out whether to spin out >> Chrome, YouTube. Yeah. All these kind of >> Chrome, YouTube. Yeah. All these kind of >> Chrome, YouTube. Yeah. All these kind of >> in a way >> in a way >> in a way >> no greater blessing has ever happened to >> no greater blessing has ever happened to >> no greater blessing has ever happened to Alphabet than OpenAI's rise. And I think Alphabet than OpenAI's rise. And I think Alphabet than OpenAI's rise. And I think that that rise not only did it create that that rise not only did it create that that rise not only did it create the foil for Google in the monopoly the foil for Google in the monopoly the foil for Google in the monopoly sense, but it also took the attention sense, but it also took the attention sense, but it also took the attention away from Google, focused it on Open AI, away from Google, focused it on Open AI, away from Google, focused it on Open AI, and that attention fundamentally damaged and that attention fundamentally damaged and that attention fundamentally damaged OpenAI strategic product capabilities OpenAI strategic product capabilities OpenAI strategic product capabilities because they had to start to be so much because they had to start to be so much because they had to start to be so much more careful about what they said, how more careful about what they said, how more careful about what they said, how they said it. and it fundamentally they said it. and it fundamentally they said it. and it fundamentally damaged the product. And the opposite damaged the product. And the opposite damaged the product. And the opposite was happening at Google at the same was happening at Google at the same was happening at Google at the same time, which is Larry, Sergey, and Sundar time, which is Larry, Sergey, and Sundar time, which is Larry, Sergey, and Sundar being given permission by the board to being given permission by the board to being given permission by the board to take risk, to go hard, to figure this take risk, to go hard, to figure this take risk, to go hard, to figure this out. And boom. You know, it's amazing out. And boom. You know, it's amazing out. And boom. You know, it's amazing how the horse race has changed. Okay, we how the horse race has changed. Okay, we how the horse race has changed. Okay, we had an amazing time in Vegas. I want to had an amazing time in Vegas. I want to had an amazing time in Vegas. I want to thank our friends at the Venetian. You thank our friends at the Venetian. You thank our friends at the Venetian. You guys were the best host we could have guys were the best host we could have guys were the best host we could have ever imagined. What VIP treatment you ever imagined. What VIP treatment you ever imagined. What VIP treatment you gave the besties and our friends and gave the besties and our friends and gave the besties and our friends and partners. And we had a great interview partners. And we had a great interview partners. And we had a great interview with Molly Bloom from Molly's Game, the with Molly Bloom from Molly's Game, the with Molly Bloom from Molly's Game, the movie, etc. Thanks to our partners, movie, etc. Thanks to our partners, movie, etc. Thanks to our partners, Oracle, OKX, and the New York Stock Oracle, OKX, and the New York Stock Oracle, OKX, and the New York Stock Exchange for partnering with us on a Exchange for partnering with us on a Exchange for partnering with us on a very successful F1 weekend in Vegas. And very successful F1 weekend in Vegas. And very successful F1 weekend in Vegas. And we had a great lunch with Oracle. we had a great lunch with Oracle. we had a great lunch with Oracle. Congrats to them on Red Bull's Big Win Congrats to them on Red Bull's Big Win Congrats to them on Red Bull's Big Win in Vegas and an amazing dinner with OKX in Vegas and an amazing dinner with OKX in Vegas and an amazing dinner with OKX where my new bestie, Jose Andreas, the where my new bestie, Jose Andreas, the where my new bestie, Jose Andreas, the chef, came from Bizaarre Meats and he chef, came from Bizaarre Meats and he chef, came from Bizaarre Meats and he cooked for us. He hung out with us. He cooked for us. He hung out with us. He cooked for us. He hung out with us. He play a little cards with us. He's just a play a little cards with us. He's just a play a little cards with us. He's just a true gentleman in a mench. Uh looking true gentleman in a mench. Uh looking true gentleman in a mench. Uh looking forward to hanging out with Jose Andreas forward to hanging out with Jose Andreas forward to hanging out with Jose Andreas a little more in the future. All right, a little more in the future. All right, a little more in the future. All right, there's another thing that went on this there's another thing that went on this there's another thing that went on this weekend. Big tech story and at the risk weekend. Big tech story and at the risk weekend. Big tech story and at the risk of being a little naval gazing here. of being a little naval gazing here. of being a little naval gazing here. We're going to cover it. The New York We're going to cover it. The New York We're going to cover it. The New York Times versus Mr. David Sachs. On Sunday, Times versus Mr. David Sachs. On Sunday, Times versus Mr. David Sachs. On Sunday, the New York Times published an article the New York Times published an article the New York Times published an article titled Silicon Valley's man in the White titled Silicon Valley's man in the White titled Silicon Valley's man in the White House is benefiting himself and his House is benefiting himself and his House is benefiting himself and his friends. Saxs are obviously the man friends. Saxs are obviously the man friends. Saxs are obviously the man they're referring to. Five reporters they're referring to. Five reporters they're referring to. Five reporters worked on this story for approximately 5 worked on this story for approximately 5 worked on this story for approximately 5 months is what we hear and the story months is what we hear and the story months is what we hear and the story attempted to frame you Sachs as attempted to frame you Sachs as attempted to frame you Sachs as conflicted first that your firm Craft conflicted first that your firm Craft conflicted first that your firm Craft has investments in companies. New York has investments in companies. New York has investments in companies. New York Times key claim quote Mr. Saxs has Times key claim quote Mr. Saxs has Times key claim quote Mr. Saxs has positioned himself to personally positioned himself to personally positioned himself to personally benefit. He has 78 tech investments benefit. He has 78 tech investments benefit. He has 78 tech investments including at least 449 stakes in including at least 449 stakes in including at least 449 stakes in companies with ties to artificial companies with ties to artificial companies with ties to artificial intelligence. intelligence. intelligence. And for background Sachs Elon you all And for background Sachs Elon you all And for background Sachs Elon you all joined as special government employees joined as special government employees joined as special government employees SGES. These are different than cabinet SGES. These are different than cabinet SGES. These are different than cabinet members in a bunch of different ways. members in a bunch of different ways. members in a bunch of different ways. Basically, they can't work more than 130 Basically, they can't work more than 130 Basically, they can't work more than 130 days. They're allowed to split time days. They're allowed to split time days. They're allowed to split time between their day jobs in DC. between their day jobs in DC. between their day jobs in DC. They don't have to be approved by the They don't have to be approved by the They don't have to be approved by the Senate. And they provide special Senate. And they provide special Senate. And they provide special expertise as Mr. Sachs is doing as the expertise as Mr. Sachs is doing as the expertise as Mr. Sachs is doing as the Zar of crypto and AI. Second major Zar of crypto and AI. Second major Zar of crypto and AI. Second major claim, raising the profile of Allin. claim, raising the profile of Allin. claim, raising the profile of Allin. Quote, "Mr. Sax has raised the profile Quote, "Mr. Sax has raised the profile Quote, "Mr. Sax has raised the profile of his weekly podcast, All In through of his weekly podcast, All In through of his weekly podcast, All In through his government role and expanded the his government role and expanded the his government role and expanded the business, which is super hilarious business, which is super hilarious business, which is super hilarious because they think our traffic peaked because they think our traffic peaked because they think our traffic peaked right before the election. Uh, but Saxs, right before the election. Uh, but Saxs, right before the election. Uh, but Saxs, uh, obviously you got a ton of air uh, obviously you got a ton of air uh, obviously you got a ton of air cover. People thought the story was cover. People thought the story was cover. People thought the story was biased and a hit job and it fell pretty biased and a hit job and it fell pretty biased and a hit job and it fell pretty flat. What's your take on this? Maybe flat. What's your take on this? Maybe flat. What's your take on this? Maybe take us behind take us behind the story. take us behind take us behind the story. take us behind take us behind the story. >> Well, I think maybe a good place to >> Well, I think maybe a good place to >> Well, I think maybe a good place to start is with the reaction to it. Like start is with the reaction to it. Like start is with the reaction to it. Like you said, there was this huge outpouring you said, there was this huge outpouring you said, there was this huge outpouring of people in Silicon Valley who reacted of people in Silicon Valley who reacted of people in Silicon Valley who reacted in a way that showed that they in a way that showed that they in a way that showed that they understood that this story was a hit understood that this story was a hit understood that this story was a hit piece, that it was biased, and I'd say piece, that it was biased, and I'd say piece, that it was biased, and I'd say most importantly, it didn't even live up most importantly, it didn't even live up most importantly, it didn't even live up to its own headline. It didn't prove the to its own headline. It didn't prove the to its own headline. It didn't prove the thing that they were asserting in the thing that they were asserting in the thing that they were asserting in the headline. And so, everyone could just headline. And so, everyone could just headline. And so, everyone could just see on its face that it was a hatchet see on its face that it was a hatchet see on its face that it was a hatchet job. And so, everyone started reacting job. And so, everyone started reacting job. And so, everyone started reacting that way. And it was nice to kind of get that way. And it was nice to kind of get that way. And it was nice to kind of get that outpouring of support from so many that outpouring of support from so many that outpouring of support from so many different people in Silicon Valley, different people in Silicon Valley, different people in Silicon Valley, including many of the companies who we including many of the companies who we including many of the companies who we just talked about are so vigorously just talked about are so vigorously just talked about are so vigorously competing with each other. I mean, I competing with each other. I mean, I competing with each other. I mean, I think this might be the only thing that think this might be the only thing that think this might be the only thing that Sam and Elon have agreed on in the last Sam and Elon have agreed on in the last Sam and Elon have agreed on in the last year. year. year. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Didn't you tell everyone to put these >> Didn't you tell everyone to put these >> Didn't you tell everyone to put these tweets out? I mean, like, tweets out? I mean, like, tweets out? I mean, like, >> so that that was sort of the next that >> so that that was sort of the next that >> so that that was sort of the next that was the next big lie that the media was the next big lie that the media was the next big lie that the media tried to perpetrate was somehow that tried to perpetrate was somehow that tried to perpetrate was somehow that this response was coordinated by me. No. this response was coordinated by me. No. this response was coordinated by me. No. And the reality, And the reality, And the reality, >> by the way, was crazy because you told >> by the way, was crazy because you told >> by the way, was crazy because you told me explicitly, "Stand down. I don't need me explicitly, "Stand down. I don't need me explicitly, "Stand down. I don't need you to do it." And I was like, "Leroy you to do it." And I was like, "Leroy you to do it." And I was like, "Leroy Jenkins." And I just went in and I was Jenkins." And I just went in and I was Jenkins." And I just went in and I was like, "I'm tweeting about this like, "I'm tweeting about this like, "I'm tweeting about this bullshit." bullshit." bullshit." >> No, I never told anyone to do anything >> No, I never told anyone to do anything >> No, I never told anyone to do anything except for you guys. And I told you guys except for you guys. And I told you guys except for you guys. And I told you guys not to react to it cuz I didn't want to not to react to it cuz I didn't want to not to react to it cuz I didn't want to striand the story, you know, where you striand the story, you know, where you striand the story, you know, where you basically draw even more attention to basically draw even more attention to basically draw even more attention to it. That was my media plan. And and then it. That was my media plan. And and then it. That was my media plan. And and then what happened is the story just went what happened is the story just went what happened is the story just went viral anyway because all of Silicon viral anyway because all of Silicon viral anyway because all of Silicon Valley reacted on their own in a Valley reacted on their own in a Valley reacted on their own in a grassroots and authentic way because I grassroots and authentic way because I grassroots and authentic way because I think they were actually genuinely think they were actually genuinely think they were actually genuinely offended by how bad the story was, how offended by how bad the story was, how offended by how bad the story was, how ridiculous it was on its face. And so ridiculous it was on its face. And so ridiculous it was on its face. And so they react and then that became the they react and then that became the they react and then that became the story. And so this whole coordinated story. And so this whole coordinated story. And so this whole coordinated narrative became in a way part of the narrative became in a way part of the narrative became in a way part of the the media industry's cover up for itself the media industry's cover up for itself the media industry's cover up for itself like their attempt to explain away why like their attempt to explain away why like their attempt to explain away why everybody thought that the story was so everybody thought that the story was so everybody thought that the story was so bad. Let me just say I do think that bad. Let me just say I do think that bad. Let me just say I do think that this outpouring of support does this outpouring of support does this outpouring of support does illustrate something important which is illustrate something important which is illustrate something important which is just how much power and respect the New just how much power and respect the New just how much power and respect the New York Times has lost. You know 10 years York Times has lost. You know 10 years York Times has lost. You know 10 years ago if the New York Times ran a hit ago if the New York Times ran a hit ago if the New York Times ran a hit piece on somebody even if other people piece on somebody even if other people piece on somebody even if other people didn't like it they wouldn't want to say didn't like it they wouldn't want to say didn't like it they wouldn't want to say anything because they'd be afraid that anything because they'd be afraid that anything because they'd be afraid that they would be the next target. And that they would be the next target. And that they would be the next target. And that mystique and that fear has completely mystique and that fear has completely mystique and that fear has completely broken down. people can kind of see the broken down. people can kind of see the broken down. people can kind of see the New York Times for what it is, which is New York Times for what it is, which is New York Times for what it is, which is basically a bunch of political activists basically a bunch of political activists basically a bunch of political activists who are pretending to be reporters and who are pretending to be reporters and who are pretending to be reporters and essentially they just launder the point essentially they just launder the point essentially they just launder the point of view of their anonymous sources who of view of their anonymous sources who of view of their anonymous sources who are basically left-wing Democrats are basically left-wing Democrats are basically left-wing Democrats and try to portray those viewpoints as and try to portray those viewpoints as and try to portray those viewpoints as somehow being neutral or objective somehow being neutral or objective somehow being neutral or objective truth, right? Because they're kind of truth, right? Because they're kind of truth, right? Because they're kind of presenting themselves as these neutral presenting themselves as these neutral presenting themselves as these neutral arbiters of the truth. And I think arbiters of the truth. And I think arbiters of the truth. And I think everyone can kind of see through that everyone can kind of see through that everyone can kind of see through that sham at this point. sham at this point. sham at this point. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> The thing they started with was the >> The thing they started with was the >> The thing they started with was the headline. headline. headline. >> And that was the one thing they refused >> And that was the one thing they refused >> And that was the one thing they refused to change no matter how many times we to change no matter how many times we to change no matter how many times we refuted their narrative. You know what refuted their narrative. You know what refuted their narrative. You know what they would do is every couple weeks they would do is every couple weeks they would do is every couple weeks they'd send us a new fact check. And we they'd send us a new fact check. And we they'd send us a new fact check. And we would basically debunk it. And we can would basically debunk it. And we can would basically debunk it. And we can show you some of those fact checks if show you some of those fact checks if show you some of those fact checks if you want to see them to see where the you want to see them to see where the you want to see them to see where the story started and what they're trying to story started and what they're trying to story started and what they're trying to prove. prove. prove. >> Yeah, let's do that. I think audience >> Yeah, let's do that. I think audience >> Yeah, let's do that. I think audience would really would really would really >> and what would happen is every time we >> and what would happen is every time we >> and what would happen is every time we would debunk one of their accusations, would debunk one of their accusations, would debunk one of their accusations, they would just come back to us with a they would just come back to us with a they would just come back to us with a new one every couple of weeks. The only new one every couple of weeks. The only new one every couple of weeks. The only fix point in their reporting was this fix point in their reporting was this fix point in their reporting was this idea that I had to have these conflicts idea that I had to have these conflicts idea that I had to have these conflicts of interests that were benefiting of interests that were benefiting of interests that were benefiting myself. myself. myself. Let me ask you a question. So, one of Let me ask you a question. So, one of Let me ask you a question. So, one of the statements that was made and then the statements that was made and then the statements that was made and then Governor Nuome repeated it at Andrew Governor Nuome repeated it at Andrew Governor Nuome repeated it at Andrew Ross Orcen Steelbook Conference Ross Orcen Steelbook Conference Ross Orcen Steelbook Conference yesterday is that you did not put all of yesterday is that you did not put all of yesterday is that you did not put all of your investments into a blind trust. You your investments into a blind trust. You your investments into a blind trust. You should have done that is what Newsome should have done that is what Newsome should have done that is what Newsome said on stage. Can you just address that said on stage. Can you just address that said on stage. Can you just address that like and what actions you actually took like and what actions you actually took like and what actions you actually took when you chose to take the office? What when you chose to take the office? What when you chose to take the office? What were you legally required to take and were you legally required to take and were you legally required to take and maybe why you didn't do a blind trust or maybe why you didn't do a blind trust or maybe why you didn't do a blind trust or maybe you did? I don't know. maybe you did? I don't know. maybe you did? I don't know. >> Well, no, we looked at that. >> Well, no, we looked at that. >> Well, no, we looked at that. >> Sorry, S. Just give me a second. I just >> Sorry, S. Just give me a second. I just >> Sorry, S. Just give me a second. I just want to say this because you're not want to say this because you're not want to say this because you're not going to say this yourself, but I going to say this yourself, but I going to say this yourself, but I remember when you were going through remember when you were going through remember when you were going through this, you were so concerned about the this, you were so concerned about the this, you were so concerned about the perception of a conflict of interest perception of a conflict of interest perception of a conflict of interest that you took such extraordinary that you took such extraordinary that you took such extraordinary measures about the degree at which you measures about the degree at which you measures about the degree at which you were selling things and getting rid of were selling things and getting rid of were selling things and getting rid of things to make sure that you could do things to make sure that you could do things to make sure that you could do the job cleanly and holy. I watched you the job cleanly and holy. I watched you the job cleanly and holy. I watched you do this and I watched you do something do this and I watched you do something do this and I watched you do something that I thought was so over the top. I'm that I thought was so over the top. I'm that I thought was so over the top. I'm like, "Holy [ __ ] you really are doing like, "Holy [ __ ] you really are doing like, "Holy [ __ ] you really are doing this for the country." And I was so this for the country." And I was so this for the country." And I was so shocked and surprised by it. And I just shocked and surprised by it. And I just shocked and surprised by it. And I just want to say that because I've observed want to say that because I've observed want to say that because I've observed it and they still came out with this it and they still came out with this it and they still came out with this piece which was so shocking to me given piece which was so shocking to me given piece which was so shocking to me given what you did. what you did. what you did. >> So you guys know what I went through >> So you guys know what I went through >> So you guys know what I went through because I was LPS and some of your funds because I was LPS and some of your funds because I was LPS and some of your funds and you know that I devested them and you know that I devested them and you know that I devested them >> which you could argue was above and >> which you could argue was above and >> which you could argue was above and beyond the call of duty, but I was just beyond the call of duty, but I was just beyond the call of duty, but I was just trying to avoid any potential conflict. trying to avoid any potential conflict. trying to avoid any potential conflict. And that I think is the central lie of And that I think is the central lie of And that I think is the central lie of this piece. Not only is the piece not this piece. Not only is the piece not this piece. Not only is the piece not true, it's the anti-truth. Yeah. Because true, it's the anti-truth. Yeah. Because true, it's the anti-truth. Yeah. Because the truth is that I devested hundreds of the truth is that I devested hundreds of the truth is that I devested hundreds of millions of dollars of positions in millions of dollars of positions in millions of dollars of positions in promising technology ventures at a promising technology ventures at a promising technology ventures at a substantial cost to my net worth. So not substantial cost to my net worth. So not substantial cost to my net worth. So not only is this job not benefiting me, it's only is this job not benefiting me, it's only is this job not benefiting me, it's actually cost me a lot of money to actually cost me a lot of money to actually cost me a lot of money to serve, but I did it because it's an serve, but I did it because it's an serve, but I did it because it's an honor to be asked by the president to honor to be asked by the president to honor to be asked by the president to serve and it's something I wanted to do serve and it's something I wanted to do serve and it's something I wanted to do and I thought I can make a difference. and I thought I can make a difference. and I thought I can make a difference. So the whole premise here is just false. So the whole premise here is just false. So the whole premise here is just false. And the New York Times through its 5 And the New York Times through its 5 And the New York Times through its 5 months of investigations knew this, but months of investigations knew this, but months of investigations knew this, but they just refused to budge on the they just refused to budge on the they just refused to budge on the premise of their story. Now, to your premise of their story. Now, to your premise of their story. Now, to your question here, if you look at one of the question here, if you look at one of the question here, if you look at one of the the key paragraphs that Jason, you the key paragraphs that Jason, you the key paragraphs that Jason, you mentioned is when they they try to mentioned is when they they try to mentioned is when they they try to mention that I have 449 mention that I have 449 mention that I have 449 investments tied to AI. And they say investments tied to AI. And they say investments tied to AI. And they say their investigation uncovered this and their investigation uncovered this and their investigation uncovered this and some of their reporters on podcasts have some of their reporters on podcasts have some of their reporters on podcasts have tried to portray themselves as Woodward tried to portray themselves as Woodward tried to portray themselves as Woodward and Bernstein here having uncovered. and Bernstein here having uncovered. and Bernstein here having uncovered. >> How did they get this crazy list of >> How did they get this crazy list of >> How did they get this crazy list of companies? I wonder companies? I wonder companies? I wonder >> I disclosed them. They didn't uncover >> I disclosed them. They didn't uncover >> I disclosed them. They didn't uncover them. I disclosed them. They're in my them. I disclosed them. They're in my them. I disclosed them. They're in my >> available to everyone. >> available to everyone. >> available to everyone. >> They're on the White House website in my >> They're on the White House website in my >> They're on the White House website in my ethics letter. So, every government ethics letter. So, every government ethics letter. So, every government employee, whether you're a full-time or employee, whether you're a full-time or employee, whether you're a full-time or SG, files disclosures with the SG, files disclosures with the SG, files disclosures with the government and my ethics letters government and my ethics letters government and my ethics letters basically contained these pages and basically contained these pages and basically contained these pages and pages of all these different positions. pages of all these different positions. pages of all these different positions. Now in that ethics letter they said that Now in that ethics letter they said that Now in that ethics letter they said that I had devested I had initiated or I had devested I had initiated or I had devested I had initiated or completed devestment of over 99% completed devestment of over 99% completed devestment of over 99% of the positions that could pose a of the positions that could pose a of the positions that could pose a conflict for AI and it's in there and conflict for AI and it's in there and conflict for AI and it's in there and this is where I think you know again this is where I think you know again this is where I think you know again they were very deceptive is it was the they were very deceptive is it was the they were very deceptive is it was the OG the office of government ethics the OG the office of government ethics the OG the office of government ethics the career civil servants the lawyers the career civil servants the lawyers the career civil servants the lawyers the accountants at OG who approved that accountants at OG who approved that accountants at OG who approved that letter and all the contents of that letter and all the contents of that letter and all the contents of that letter who reviewed all those letter who reviewed all those letter who reviewed all those disclosures and they're the ones who disclosures and they're the ones who disclosures and they're the ones who concluded that I did not have any concluded that I did not have any concluded that I did not have any conflicts. So really what the New York conflicts. So really what the New York conflicts. So really what the New York Times' beef is with the career civil Times' beef is with the career civil Times' beef is with the career civil servants at OG. servants at OG. servants at OG. >> Maybe walk us through what you actually >> Maybe walk us through what you actually >> Maybe walk us through what you actually did do. Why did you didn't do the blind did do. Why did you didn't do the blind did do. Why did you didn't do the blind trust and and help us get the context trust and and help us get the context trust and and help us get the context there. there. there. >> So on the blind trust. So it's kind of >> So on the blind trust. So it's kind of >> So on the blind trust. So it's kind of funny. One of the New York Times funny. One of the New York Times funny. One of the New York Times reporters was talking about this on a reporters was talking about this on a reporters was talking about this on a podcast which is where I think Newsome podcast which is where I think Newsome podcast which is where I think Newsome picked it up from. My ethics lawyer who picked it up from. My ethics lawyer who picked it up from. My ethics lawyer who teaches a course on conflicts of teaches a course on conflicts of teaches a course on conflicts of interest at Harvard said that that interest at Harvard said that that interest at Harvard said that that reporter should really take his course reporter should really take his course reporter should really take his course because he would actually learn because he would actually learn because he would actually learn something about the the conflicts laws. something about the the conflicts laws. something about the the conflicts laws. The blind trust idea is rarely used and The blind trust idea is rarely used and The blind trust idea is rarely used and in my case it would not have worked in my case it would not have worked in my case it would not have worked because I have minor children. You can because I have minor children. You can because I have minor children. You can only use the blind trust to have your only use the blind trust to have your only use the blind trust to have your kids be beneficiaries if they're adults. kids be beneficiaries if they're adults. kids be beneficiaries if they're adults. That's the way the conflict laws work. That's the way the conflict laws work. That's the way the conflict laws work. So it just wasn't even applicable in my So it just wasn't even applicable in my So it just wasn't even applicable in my case. And what I did instead of creating case. And what I did instead of creating case. And what I did instead of creating a blind trust is I devested the a blind trust is I devested the a blind trust is I devested the positions positions positions >> at great cost >> at great cost >> at great cost said were a conflict at a discount to said were a conflict at a discount to said were a conflict at a discount to their fair market value in the case of their fair market value in the case of their fair market value in the case of my LP interest and all these funds. I my LP interest and all these funds. I my LP interest and all these funds. I devested almost a hundred funds that I devested almost a hundred funds that I devested almost a hundred funds that I had invested in, venture funds, things had invested in, venture funds, things had invested in, venture funds, things like that, angel funds like that, angel funds like that, angel funds >> at roughly a 50% discount to their fair >> at roughly a 50% discount to their fair >> at roughly a 50% discount to their fair market value because market value because market value because >> that's insane >> that's insane >> that's insane >> because well they're private >> because well they're private >> because well they're private investments, right? And you know that investments, right? And you know that investments, right? And you know that selling an LP interest in a fund, selling an LP interest in a fund, selling an LP interest in a fund, there's no liquid market for that. there's no liquid market for that. there's no liquid market for that. >> So in order to even find a buyer, you >> So in order to even find a buyer, you >> So in order to even find a buyer, you have to make it super attractive for have to make it super attractive for have to make it super attractive for them. them. them. >> God. >> God. >> God. >> And then I sold you know XAI, I sold my >> And then I sold you know XAI, I sold my >> And then I sold you know XAI, I sold my interest in in Grock and those were all interest in in Grock and those were all interest in in Grock and those were all at substantial discounts to the next at substantial discounts to the next at substantial discounts to the next round which has now taken place. So round which has now taken place. So round which has now taken place. So joining the government is not a joining the government is not a joining the government is not a money-making scheme. The simplest way money-making scheme. The simplest way money-making scheme. The simplest way for me to make more money would have for me to make more money would have for me to make more money would have just been to keep doing what I was just been to keep doing what I was just been to keep doing what I was doing. doing. doing. >> Yeah. Right. >> Yeah. Right. >> Yeah. Right. >> Just go back to the 449. So again, >> Just go back to the 449. So again, >> Just go back to the 449. So again, they're kind of pretending like they did they're kind of pretending like they did they're kind of pretending like they did this unbelievable investigation and they this unbelievable investigation and they this unbelievable investigation and they find the the 449. Can you just put up find the the 449. Can you just put up find the the 449. Can you just put up this paragraph on on the screen here? this paragraph on on the screen here? this paragraph on on the screen here? Because really every sentence in this Because really every sentence in this Because really every sentence in this paragraph kind of reveals the sham of paragraph kind of reveals the sham of paragraph kind of reveals the sham of this story. Mr. Sax has positioned this story. Mr. Sax has positioned this story. Mr. Sax has positioned himself to personally benefit. Not true. himself to personally benefit. Not true. himself to personally benefit. Not true. I mean, I was already an investor in all I mean, I was already an investor in all I mean, I was already an investor in all these companies and I positioned myself these companies and I positioned myself these companies and I positioned myself to devest. Then it says I had 449 stakes to devest. Then it says I had 449 stakes to devest. Then it says I had 449 stakes in companies with ties to artificial in companies with ties to artificial in companies with ties to artificial intelligence. By the way, that whole intelligence. By the way, that whole intelligence. By the way, that whole phrase ties to is total journalism phrase ties to is total journalism phrase ties to is total journalism weasel words because ties to can mean weasel words because ties to can mean weasel words because ties to can mean anything and every company in the anything and every company in the anything and every company in the economy is going to have ties to economy is going to have ties to economy is going to have ties to artificial intelligence. And then they artificial intelligence. And then they artificial intelligence. And then they said could be aided directly or said could be aided directly or said could be aided directly or indirectly. That is not what a conflict indirectly. That is not what a conflict indirectly. That is not what a conflict of interest is. The standard is having a of interest is. The standard is having a of interest is. The standard is having a direct and predictable effect on an direct and predictable effect on an direct and predictable effect on an interest. Not indirect. And there's interest. Not indirect. And there's interest. Not indirect. And there's nothing in that story nothing in that story nothing in that story that shows that I had a direct benefit. that shows that I had a direct benefit. that shows that I had a direct benefit. >> This article has nothing to do with >> This article has nothing to do with >> This article has nothing to do with everything you guys just spent all this everything you guys just spent all this everything you guys just spent all this time talking about. time talking about. time talking about. >> Okay? >> Okay? >> Okay? >> There is nothing here. Okay? There was >> There is nothing here. Okay? There was >> There is nothing here. Okay? There was no crime here. There's no smoke here. no crime here. There's no smoke here. no crime here. There's no smoke here. There's no fire here. There's no fire here. There's no fire here. What you did get right though is the What you did get right though is the What you did get right though is the headline was the goal. And what is the headline was the goal. And what is the headline was the goal. And what is the goal of that headline? The goal of that goal of that headline? The goal of that goal of that headline? The goal of that headline is to insinuate and to pressure headline is to insinuate and to pressure headline is to insinuate and to pressure Sachs, but subtly it's to pressure Sachs, but subtly it's to pressure Sachs, but subtly it's to pressure everyone else that looks like Sachs. everyone else that looks like Sachs. everyone else that looks like Sachs. Now, what does it mean to look like Now, what does it mean to look like Now, what does it mean to look like Sachs? It's not just about Republican Sachs? It's not just about Republican Sachs? It's not just about Republican folks. This could be a Democratic person folks. This could be a Democratic person folks. This could be a Democratic person as well in the future. You're in as well in the future. You're in as well in the future. You're in industry. You know something very industry. You know something very industry. You know something very specific. You've done very well applying specific. You've done very well applying specific. You've done very well applying that knowledge. Now all of a sudden that knowledge. Now all of a sudden that knowledge. Now all of a sudden you're in a position where you could go you're in a position where you could go you're in a position where you could go and positively impact the trajectory of and positively impact the trajectory of and positively impact the trajectory of the United States. You're asked by the the United States. You're asked by the the United States. You're asked by the then sitting president of the United then sitting president of the United then sitting president of the United States to do something. What this States to do something. What this States to do something. What this article does is it tries to intimidate article does is it tries to intimidate article does is it tries to intimidate those kinds of people to say, "Wow, this those kinds of people to say, "Wow, this those kinds of people to say, "Wow, this is not worth it. This is just too much is not worth it. This is just too much is not worth it. This is just too much of a headache." The whole point was the of a headache." The whole point was the of a headache." The whole point was the headline and the whole point was to get headline and the whole point was to get headline and the whole point was to get enough chatter about the headline so enough chatter about the headline so enough chatter about the headline so that people like Sachs and then other that people like Sachs and then other that people like Sachs and then other people in the future just say, "You know people in the future just say, "You know people in the future just say, "You know what? what? what? >> I'm not going to try this." And what do >> I'm not going to try this." And what do >> I'm not going to try this." And what do they want instead? What they want they want instead? What they want they want instead? What they want instead are people that they can work instead are people that they can work instead are people that they can work with very closely and ultimately co-opt. with very closely and ultimately co-opt. with very closely and ultimately co-opt. If you look at people like Zoron Mumdani If you look at people like Zoron Mumdani If you look at people like Zoron Mumdani who's beloved by the New York Times or who's beloved by the New York Times or who's beloved by the New York Times or if you look at Lena Khan who's beloved if you look at Lena Khan who's beloved if you look at Lena Khan who's beloved by the New York Times as well, what's by the New York Times as well, what's by the New York Times as well, what's the through line? It's a total and the through line? It's a total and the through line? It's a total and complete lack of experience. And so what complete lack of experience. And so what complete lack of experience. And so what you're creating is essentially a very you're creating is essentially a very you're creating is essentially a very simple litmus test. If you have simple litmus test. If you have simple litmus test. If you have experience, we're going to paint you as experience, we're going to paint you as experience, we're going to paint you as conflicted. So stay away. But if you're conflicted. So stay away. But if you're conflicted. So stay away. But if you're completely inexperienced and have no completely inexperienced and have no completely inexperienced and have no experience whatsoever, have never done experience whatsoever, have never done experience whatsoever, have never done anything and you're probably going to anything and you're probably going to anything and you're probably going to screw it up. but at least you'll be in screw it up. but at least you'll be in screw it up. but at least you'll be in our pocket. We'll work with you and so our pocket. We'll work with you and so our pocket. We'll work with you and so we will leave you alone. That is the we will leave you alone. That is the we will leave you alone. That is the point of this article and that is what point of this article and that is what point of this article and that is what is on trial here. And I think what we is on trial here. And I think what we is on trial here. And I think what we all need to do is understand that simple all need to do is understand that simple all need to do is understand that simple thing and push back on it. Not just if thing and push back on it. Not just if thing and push back on it. Not just if you're a Republican, but also if you're you're a Republican, but also if you're you're a Republican, but also if you're a Democrat because there are tons of a Democrat because there are tons of a Democrat because there are tons of really smart people on both sides that really smart people on both sides that really smart people on both sides that will eventually be asked to do something will eventually be asked to do something will eventually be asked to do something for the United States and you need to for the United States and you need to for the United States and you need to ignore the idiots at the New York Times ignore the idiots at the New York Times ignore the idiots at the New York Times and do it. Yeah, this is well said and and do it. Yeah, this is well said and and do it. Yeah, this is well said and this literally was going to be the the this literally was going to be the the this literally was going to be the the point I was going to make as well, which point I was going to make as well, which point I was going to make as well, which is we're we're setting up two worlds. Do is we're we're setting up two worlds. Do is we're we're setting up two worlds. Do you want you want you want >> otherwise you will only Exactly. You'll >> otherwise you will only Exactly. You'll >> otherwise you will only Exactly. You'll only have inexperienced morons in the only have inexperienced morons in the only have inexperienced morons in the government even help. government even help. government even help. >> It doesn't. And here's ex such a good >> It doesn't. And here's ex such a good >> It doesn't. And here's ex such a good point that we have a choice right now. point that we have a choice right now. point that we have a choice right now. Do we want to have lawyers and academics Do we want to have lawyers and academics Do we want to have lawyers and academics with no experience in the real world with no experience in the real world with no experience in the real world setting policy in Washington DC or do setting policy in Washington DC or do setting policy in Washington DC or do you want to have experts? Do you want you want to have experts? Do you want you want to have experts? Do you want more Mike Bloombergs? Do you want more more Mike Bloombergs? Do you want more more Mike Bloombergs? Do you want more Jeff Bezos, more David Sachs, more Jeff Bezos, more David Sachs, more Jeff Bezos, more David Sachs, more Bessant, also a Democrat? Lutnik, also Bessant, also a Democrat? Lutnik, also Bessant, also a Democrat? Lutnik, also previously a Democrat. We want the previously a Democrat. We want the previously a Democrat. We want the smartest people in Washington DC. That's smartest people in Washington DC. That's smartest people in Washington DC. That's what the founders wanted. The founding what the founders wanted. The founding what the founders wanted. The founding fathers of this country wanted people to fathers of this country wanted people to fathers of this country wanted people to do short stints. We want short stints. do short stints. We want short stints. do short stints. We want short stints. We don't want career politicians like We don't want career politicians like We don't want career politicians like Nancy Pelosi or, you know, Mitch Nancy Pelosi or, you know, Mitch Nancy Pelosi or, you know, Mitch McConnell in there for 30, 40, 600 McConnell in there for 30, 40, 600 McConnell in there for 30, 40, 600 years. years. years. Like literally these people are like Like literally these people are like Like literally these people are like look like zombies in Washington DC. look like zombies in Washington DC. look like zombies in Washington DC. They're glitching out. We want people in They're glitching out. We want people in They're glitching out. We want people in their prime of their careers to go in their prime of their careers to go in their prime of their careers to go in there chimoff like you're saying and there chimoff like you're saying and there chimoff like you're saying and kick ass for us for four or eight years kick ass for us for four or eight years kick ass for us for four or eight years and then come back. By the way, and then come back. By the way, and then come back. By the way, everybody benefits when you go to everybody benefits when you go to everybody benefits when you go to Washington DC and you make some Washington DC and you make some Washington DC and you make some connections. Of course, when the connections. Of course, when the connections. Of course, when the Clintons left office, what did they do? Clintons left office, what did they do? Clintons left office, what did they do? Clinton Foundation book deals, Obama's Clinton Foundation book deals, Obama's Clinton Foundation book deals, Obama's book deals, Netflix deals. Everybody book deals, Netflix deals. Everybody book deals, Netflix deals. Everybody gets a little shine when they come out. gets a little shine when they come out. gets a little shine when they come out. That's natural when you come out. But we That's natural when you come out. But we That's natural when you come out. But we want the best and brightest there. It's want the best and brightest there. It's want the best and brightest there. It's a gift that you went there, Sachs. It's a gift that you went there, Sachs. It's a gift that you went there, Sachs. It's a gift. a gift. a gift. >> I think Yeah, we can debate all these >> I think Yeah, we can debate all these >> I think Yeah, we can debate all these issues. And yes, civil servants should issues. And yes, civil servants should issues. And yes, civil servants should be under scrutiny. Whether it's Lena be under scrutiny. Whether it's Lena be under scrutiny. Whether it's Lena Khan or USA, people should be held to Khan or USA, people should be held to Khan or USA, people should be held to account for anything they're doing. You account for anything they're doing. You account for anything they're doing. You did it right. YOU WENT ABOVE AND BEYOND. did it right. YOU WENT ABOVE AND BEYOND. did it right. YOU WENT ABOVE AND BEYOND. And now they're trying to punish you and And now they're trying to punish you and And now they're trying to punish you and they're trying to dissuade the next they're trying to dissuade the next they're trying to dissuade the next group of great Americans from going group of great Americans from going group of great Americans from going there. there. there. >> Yeah. Well, thank you. Yeah. Go ahead. >> Yeah. Well, thank you. Yeah. Go ahead. >> Yeah. Well, thank you. Yeah. Go ahead. >> There are two quotes from Thomas >> There are two quotes from Thomas >> There are two quotes from Thomas Jefferson. I'll just read because I Jefferson. I'll just read because I Jefferson. I'll just read because I think it's actually very important. think it's actually very important. think it's actually very important. He said in a letter in 1788, I apprehend He said in a letter in 1788, I apprehend He said in a letter in 1788, I apprehend that the total abandonment of the that the total abandonment of the that the total abandonment of the principle of rotation in the elected principle of rotation in the elected principle of rotation in the elected offices will end in abuse. And then he offices will end in abuse. And then he offices will end in abuse. And then he also later said in 1809, nature intended also later said in 1809, nature intended also later said in 1809, nature intended me for the tranquil pursuits of science, me for the tranquil pursuits of science, me for the tranquil pursuits of science, which is what he was into by rendering which is what he was into by rendering which is what he was into by rendering them my supreme delight. But the them my supreme delight. But the them my supreme delight. But the enormities of the times in which I have enormities of the times in which I have enormities of the times in which I have lived have forced me to take a part in lived have forced me to take a part in lived have forced me to take a part in resisting them and to commit myself on resisting them and to commit myself on resisting them and to commit myself on the boisterous ocean of political the boisterous ocean of political the boisterous ocean of political passions. passions. passions. The founding fathers to your point Jal The founding fathers to your point Jal The founding fathers to your point Jal and Chimath were vehemently committed to and Chimath were vehemently committed to and Chimath were vehemently committed to the United States being a free market, the United States being a free market, the United States being a free market, being a place where people could pursue being a place where people could pursue being a place where people could pursue with absolute liberty their interests in with absolute liberty their interests in with absolute liberty their interests in business, in science, in life. And the business, in science, in life. And the business, in science, in life. And the action of political office of getting action of political office of getting action of political office of getting elected to a political office was out of elected to a political office was out of elected to a political office was out of a requirement to serve out of civil a requirement to serve out of civil a requirement to serve out of civil service to this country service to the service to this country service to the service to this country service to the nation and service to the enablement of nation and service to the enablement of nation and service to the enablement of the freedoms that allow us to do the the freedoms that allow us to do the the freedoms that allow us to do the things that we choose and want to do. things that we choose and want to do. things that we choose and want to do. And if you look at the wealth that's And if you look at the wealth that's And if you look at the wealth that's been accumulated by these career been accumulated by these career been accumulated by these career politicians, politicians, politicians, it is no surprise that they are it is no surprise that they are it is no surprise that they are attacking Sachs and Bessant and Lenik attacking Sachs and Bessant and Lenik attacking Sachs and Bessant and Lenik and Kelly Laughler and all of these and Kelly Laughler and all of these and Kelly Laughler and all of these other elected or appointed officials in other elected or appointed officials in other elected or appointed officials in this government who have had success in this government who have had success in this government who have had success in private life and who have chosen out of private life and who have chosen out of private life and who have chosen out of a commitment to patriotism to spend a commitment to patriotism to spend a commitment to patriotism to spend their time rather than making money in their time rather than making money in their time rather than making money in private life. they have enough money but private life. they have enough money but private life. they have enough money but to try and get the government and the to try and get the government and the to try and get the government and the country on the track that they hope it country on the track that they hope it country on the track that they hope it will go on. And I think that that is the will go on. And I think that that is the will go on. And I think that that is the key difference between those who see key difference between those who see key difference between those who see this article for what it is and those this article for what it is and those this article for what it is and those who read it to reaffirm their I would who read it to reaffirm their I would who read it to reaffirm their I would say violent opposition to what is this say violent opposition to what is this say violent opposition to what is this current administration and the challenge current administration and the challenge current administration and the challenge that's ahead. So, I think it's a real that's ahead. So, I think it's a real that's ahead. So, I think it's a real roar shock test when you read these roar shock test when you read these roar shock test when you read these articles and you look at Sachs and articles and you look at Sachs and articles and you look at Sachs and others in this administration and the others in this administration and the others in this administration and the choices that they've made to say, are choices that they've made to say, are choices that they've made to say, are they doing it to grift or are they doing they doing it to grift or are they doing they doing it to grift or are they doing it because they don't need to grift? Let it because they don't need to grift? Let it because they don't need to grift? Let me just also say this, proof is in the me just also say this, proof is in the me just also say this, proof is in the pudding. If we send experts to pudding. If we send experts to pudding. If we send experts to Washington DC, if you look at Sax's Washington DC, if you look at Sax's Washington DC, if you look at Sax's early track record, you got the stable early track record, you got the stable early track record, you got the stable coin stuff done. We just talked about coin stuff done. We just talked about coin stuff done. We just talked about how competitive the AI market is. We how competitive the AI market is. We how competitive the AI market is. We talked about building more energy. This, talked about building more energy. This, talked about building more energy. This, you know, and again, I disagree with a you know, and again, I disagree with a you know, and again, I disagree with a lot of the things in the Trump lot of the things in the Trump lot of the things in the Trump administration. The thing I don't administration. The thing I don't administration. The thing I don't disagree with and I fully endorse is the disagree with and I fully endorse is the disagree with and I fully endorse is the experts and the great job they're doing. experts and the great job they're doing. experts and the great job they're doing. Howard Lutnick's crushing it. You're Howard Lutnick's crushing it. You're Howard Lutnick's crushing it. You're crushing it. All these regulations that crushing it. All these regulations that crushing it. All these regulations that you've gotten done early and often are you've gotten done early and often are you've gotten done early and often are making crypto legal, a legal framework making crypto legal, a legal framework making crypto legal, a legal framework for crypto, which by the way, the last for crypto, which by the way, the last for crypto, which by the way, the last two administrations, the 45th and the two administrations, the 45th and the two administrations, the 45th and the 46th didn't get done. You got it done in 46th didn't get done. You got it done in 46th didn't get done. You got it done in six months, right? There's already a six months, right? There's already a six months, right? There's already a track record here. If you send experts, track record here. If you send experts, track record here. If you send experts, they'll get expert done on time on on on they'll get expert done on time on on on they'll get expert done on time on on on startup speed. So like what? Let's talk startup speed. So like what? Let's talk startup speed. So like what? Let's talk about the results as well. about the results as well. about the results as well. >> Yeah. I mean, look, they don't want the >> Yeah. I mean, look, they don't want the >> Yeah. I mean, look, they don't want the results. I mean, they consider the results. I mean, they consider the results. I mean, they consider the results to be a negative. And what results to be a negative. And what results to be a negative. And what they're trying to do is criminalize they're trying to do is criminalize they're trying to do is criminalize policy disagreements. That's really policy disagreements. That's really policy disagreements. That's really what's going on. Now, at one point, my what's going on. Now, at one point, my what's going on. Now, at one point, my comm's person who was dealing with the comm's person who was dealing with the comm's person who was dealing with the New York Times asked them, you know, New York Times asked them, you know, New York Times asked them, you know, what friends are you talking about? Like what friends are you talking about? Like what friends are you talking about? Like what friends did he benefit? And they what friends did he benefit? And they what friends did he benefit? And they couldn't name a specific one. I think couldn't name a specific one. I think couldn't name a specific one. I think this is why you guys why they mentioned this is why you guys why they mentioned this is why you guys why they mentioned all in tequila and the all-in summit is all in tequila and the all-in summit is all in tequila and the all-in summit is I think maybe they're trying to portray I think maybe they're trying to portray I think maybe they're trying to portray you guys as the friends who benefited you guys as the friends who benefited you guys as the friends who benefited somehow we sold more say I summit. somehow we sold more say I summit. somehow we sold more say I summit. >> Let me just say one thing on allin. We >> Let me just say one thing on allin. We >> Let me just say one thing on allin. We can't get speakers to come on the show can't get speakers to come on the show can't get speakers to come on the show because of the association with the because of the association with the because of the association with the Trump administration. We lost money on Trump administration. We lost money on Trump administration. We lost money on that event in June that I spent 12 days that event in June that I spent 12 days that event in June that I spent 12 days of my life working on. It was a pain in of my life working on. It was a pain in of my life working on. It was a pain in my ass. There was no personal benefit to my ass. There was no personal benefit to my ass. There was no personal benefit to us for any of this. There's no grifting us for any of this. There's no grifting us for any of this. There's no grifting going on. It's honestly a pain in the going on. It's honestly a pain in the going on. It's honestly a pain in the ass. We do it for Sachs because he ass. We do it for Sachs because he ass. We do it for Sachs because he wanted us to help him out with putting wanted us to help him out with putting wanted us to help him out with putting that event on. that event on. that event on. Saxs, now you're part time on the show. Saxs, now you're part time on the show. Saxs, now you're part time on the show. We have You're here. We have You're here. We have You're here. >> From the get- go, it was a nonprofit >> From the get- go, it was a nonprofit >> From the get- go, it was a nonprofit event. We did not sell tickets. We gave event. We did not sell tickets. We gave event. We did not sell tickets. We gave them all away for free. If we wanted to them all away for free. If we wanted to them all away for free. If we wanted to make money, you sell tickets. We didn't make money, you sell tickets. We didn't make money, you sell tickets. We didn't do that. do that. do that. >> Two sponsors that put money in to help >> Two sponsors that put money in to help >> Two sponsors that put money in to help defay the cost cuz we spent like a defay the cost cuz we spent like a defay the cost cuz we spent like a million plus dollars on this thing. They million plus dollars on this thing. They million plus dollars on this thing. They got their logo on the video. Not even in got their logo on the video. Not even in got their logo on the video. Not even in the live event. It was just on the video the live event. It was just on the video the live event. It was just on the video when we put it on YouTube, which was our when we put it on YouTube, which was our when we put it on YouTube, which was our >> Disc. Let's move on. Disgot the odd to >> Disc. Let's move on. Disgot the odd to >> Disc. Let's move on. Disgot the odd to the New York Times. the New York Times. the New York Times. >> But there's no benefit to all in. >> But there's no benefit to all in. >> But there's no benefit to all in. >> There's no benefit to all in. and and >> There's no benefit to all in. and and >> There's no benefit to all in. and and and the fact that they had to throw that and the fact that they had to throw that and the fact that they had to throw that in kind of show if you ask me, but yeah, in kind of show if you ask me, but yeah, in kind of show if you ask me, but yeah, I concur. I concur. I concur. >> It's because they kitchen sink this >> It's because they kitchen sink this >> It's because they kitchen sink this thing to try and create the illusion thing to try and create the illusion thing to try and create the illusion that there was something there. that there was something there. that there was something there. >> All right. So, we knew this would take >> All right. So, we knew this would take >> All right. So, we knew this would take over the show because we're all hot onto over the show because we're all hot onto over the show because we're all hot onto the collar and we all know you're doing the collar and we all know you're doing the collar and we all know you're doing a great job there. We want more experts. a great job there. We want more experts. a great job there. We want more experts. The job description is to have us win The job description is to have us win The job description is to have us win AI. AI. AI. >> Yes, that's what they're accusing me of >> Yes, that's what they're accusing me of >> Yes, that's what they're accusing me of is basically doing my job. is basically doing my job. is basically doing my job. >> Congratulations. You did a great job and >> Congratulations. You did a great job and >> Congratulations. You did a great job and now we're going to lie about you in the now we're going to lie about you in the now we're going to lie about you in the New York Times. But you're friends with New York Times. But you're friends with New York Times. But you're friends with Jensen Hang and now Jensen can sell Jensen Hang and now Jensen can sell Jensen Hang and now Jensen can sell chips. chips. chips. >> Oh my god. >> Oh my god. >> Oh my god. >> Do you want to show the fact check? It's >> Do you want to show the fact check? It's >> Do you want to show the fact check? It's so crazy. so crazy. so crazy. >> It's crazy. >> It's crazy. >> It's crazy. >> The fact check. >> The fact check. >> The fact check. >> This guy is the CEO of the largest >> This guy is the CEO of the largest >> This guy is the CEO of the largest company in the world for years. company in the world for years. company in the world for years. >> He's been meticulously designing these >> He's been meticulously designing these >> He's been meticulously designing these chips for 30 years. Before Before Sax chips for 30 years. Before Before Sax chips for 30 years. Before Before Sax could even spell H100, he had made them could even spell H100, he had made them could even spell H100, he had made them >> for gamers. He was making video game >> for gamers. He was making video game >> for gamers. He was making video game cards cards cards ago. ago. ago. >> Okay, wait. We got I got to show this an >> Okay, wait. We got I got to show this an >> Okay, wait. We got I got to show this an example of how dishonest they are. So, example of how dishonest they are. So, example of how dishonest they are. So, they would send us these fact checks they would send us these fact checks they would send us these fact checks every couple weeks. Okay. every couple weeks. Okay. every couple weeks. Okay. >> Okay. So, here's the real email, Sachs. >> Okay. So, here's the real email, Sachs. >> Okay. So, here's the real email, Sachs. They were sending you bullet point after They were sending you bullet point after They were sending you bullet point after bullet points. This section starts at bullet points. This section starts at bullet points. This section starts at bullet point number 33. It's obviously bullet point number 33. It's obviously bullet point number 33. It's obviously one of many emails you got. one of many emails you got. one of many emails you got. >> What they do in these fact checks is >> What they do in these fact checks is >> What they do in these fact checks is they basically take the story that they basically take the story that they basically take the story that they're planning to write and just break they're planning to write and just break they're planning to write and just break it up into chunks and then they give you it up into chunks and then they give you it up into chunks and then they give you like 24 hours to respond to each like 24 hours to respond to each like 24 hours to respond to each sentence or paragraph and say whether sentence or paragraph and say whether sentence or paragraph and say whether you know you agree or disagree with it you know you agree or disagree with it you know you agree or disagree with it and give you the chance to make a and give you the chance to make a and give you the chance to make a statement. That's what a fact check is. statement. That's what a fact check is. statement. That's what a fact check is. So this is the story they were planning So this is the story they were planning So this is the story they were planning on writing which is in the spring Sax on writing which is in the spring Sax on writing which is in the spring Sax had dinner with Nvidia CEO Jensen Wong had dinner with Nvidia CEO Jensen Wong had dinner with Nvidia CEO Jensen Wong in Washington. They discussed several in Washington. They discussed several in Washington. They discussed several foreign export issues. During the dinner foreign export issues. During the dinner foreign export issues. During the dinner Sax heard a convincing counterargument Sax heard a convincing counterargument Sax heard a convincing counterargument that selling American chips to rivals that selling American chips to rivals that selling American chips to rivals including China will get those nations including China will get those nations including China will get those nations hooked on US tech. Sachs then took that hooked on US tech. Sachs then took that hooked on US tech. Sachs then took that argument to the White House and pushed argument to the White House and pushed argument to the White House and pushed officials to eliminate binary officials to eliminate binary officials to eliminate binary restrictions etc etc. There's just one restrictions etc etc. There's just one restrictions etc etc. There's just one problem with this narrative. There was problem with this narrative. There was problem with this narrative. There was no such dinner. no such dinner. no such dinner. We checked my schedule. They made up the We checked my schedule. They made up the We checked my schedule. They made up the dinner. dinner. dinner. >> No, we checked everyone's schedules. >> No, we checked everyone's schedules. >> No, we checked everyone's schedules. There is no dinner. So, they've got a There is no dinner. So, they've got a There is no dinner. So, they've got a source who's just making this up. And source who's just making this up. And source who's just making this up. And how does the New York Times respond? how does the New York Times respond? how does the New York Times respond? They just delete the dinner, but they They just delete the dinner, but they They just delete the dinner, but they don't delete any other part of this. But don't delete any other part of this. But don't delete any other part of this. But if your source has already been caught if your source has already been caught if your source has already been caught fabricating a dinner at which this fabricating a dinner at which this fabricating a dinner at which this conversation supposedly took place, it's conversation supposedly took place, it's conversation supposedly took place, it's totally discredited. totally discredited. totally discredited. >> They're trying to intimidate you. >> They're trying to intimidate you. >> They're trying to intimidate you. >> They kind of create this insinuation >> They kind of create this insinuation >> They kind of create this insinuation that somehow I'm being influenced that somehow I'm being influenced that somehow I'm being influenced through friendships. through friendships. through friendships. >> But then it turns out that those >> But then it turns out that those >> But then it turns out that those friendships don't even exist. I mean, friendships don't even exist. I mean, friendships don't even exist. I mean, they're just people I met after I joined they're just people I met after I joined they're just people I met after I joined the administration in a lot of cases. the administration in a lot of cases. the administration in a lot of cases. >> So, in any event, look, I think the >> So, in any event, look, I think the >> So, in any event, look, I think the audience of the show knows my views on audience of the show knows my views on audience of the show knows my views on AI because I've been publicly advocating AI because I've been publicly advocating AI because I've been publicly advocating for them for a past year. for them for a past year. for them for a past year. >> And you've had scrutiny. We ask you hard >> And you've had scrutiny. We ask you hard >> And you've had scrutiny. We ask you hard questions every week here. We bust your questions every week here. We bust your questions every week here. We bust your chops and and force you to explain these chops and and force you to explain these chops and and force you to explain these positions and and we uh we we stress positions and and we uh we we stress positions and and we uh we we stress test them with you and the audience test them with you and the audience test them with you and the audience stress testes them. That's that's like a stress testes them. That's that's like a stress testes them. That's that's like a gift to the American people. And I think gift to the American people. And I think gift to the American people. And I think it's very hard for people to contemplate it's very hard for people to contemplate it's very hard for people to contemplate the idea that folks who are the idea that folks who are the idea that folks who are significantly wealthy don't actually significantly wealthy don't actually significantly wealthy don't actually need to self-deal. need to self-deal. need to self-deal. Like they just don't need it. And the Like they just don't need it. And the Like they just don't need it. And the truth is the folks who are trying to truth is the folks who are trying to truth is the folks who are trying to build a career in politics are the ones build a career in politics are the ones build a career in politics are the ones who are necessarily going to self-deal who are necessarily going to self-deal who are necessarily going to self-deal because that's the path to wealth for because that's the path to wealth for because that's the path to wealth for them. And if you've already found your them. And if you've already found your them. And if you've already found your found your path to wealth, you don't found your path to wealth, you don't found your path to wealth, you don't need to self-deal. And I think it's just need to self-deal. And I think it's just need to self-deal. And I think it's just so hard for people to gro that. so hard for people to gro that. so hard for people to gro that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's hard to understand that somebody is >> It's hard to understand that somebody is >> It's hard to understand that somebody is losing a massive amount of money serving losing a massive amount of money serving losing a massive amount of money serving their country. I for one thank you for their country. I for one thank you for their country. I for one thank you for losing all of his money and going and losing all of his money and going and losing all of his money and going and serving the country. I'm very proud. serving the country. I'm very proud. serving the country. I'm very proud. >> Even if people don't agree with your >> Even if people don't agree with your >> Even if people don't agree with your politics, even if I don't agree with politics, even if I don't agree with politics, even if I don't agree with everything you say or do, Saxs, uh everything you say or do, Saxs, uh everything you say or do, Saxs, uh again, I never doubt your integrity and again, I never doubt your integrity and again, I never doubt your integrity and your intentions. And I never once your intentions. And I never once your intentions. And I never once thought that you would be someone who thought that you would be someone who thought that you would be someone who would ever selfdeal or engage in any would ever selfdeal or engage in any would ever selfdeal or engage in any sort of grift or corruption. And I'll sort of grift or corruption. And I'll sort of grift or corruption. And I'll say that just personally having known say that just personally having known say that just personally having known you for a very long time. you for a very long time. you for a very long time. >> Great. >> Great. >> Great. >> I appreciate that. Thank you. >> I appreciate that. Thank you. >> I appreciate that. Thank you. >> I'm mad at you because you didn't sell >> I'm mad at you because you didn't sell >> I'm mad at you because you didn't sell me everything at 50% discount. me everything at 50% discount. me everything at 50% discount. >> Yeah. Where's the first time I heard it? >> Yeah. Where's the first time I heard it? >> Yeah. Where's the first time I heard it? I was I was I was >> I've been so angry this whole clip >> I've been so angry this whole clip >> I've been so angry this whole clip thinking what what thinking what what thinking what what >> where was my call? >> where was my call? >> where was my call? >> Oh my god. I would have given you 55%. >> Oh my god. I would have given you 55%. >> Oh my god. I would have given you 55%. Give it to me. Hey, I would have bought Give it to me. Hey, I would have bought Give it to me. Hey, I would have bought it. it. it. >> Another story that's been uh trending is >> Another story that's been uh trending is >> Another story that's been uh trending is the uh new poverty line and some of the uh new poverty line and some of the uh new poverty line and some of these incoming tax laws. Mike Green, an these incoming tax laws. Mike Green, an these incoming tax laws. Mike Green, an investor and fund manager, went viral investor and fund manager, went viral investor and fund manager, went viral last week for claiming the US poverty last week for claiming the US poverty last week for claiming the US poverty line math is very wrong. Historically, line math is very wrong. Historically, line math is very wrong. Historically, the poverty line has been measured as the poverty line has been measured as the poverty line has been measured as three times the cost of a minimum food three times the cost of a minimum food three times the cost of a minimum food diet in 1963 adjusted for inflation. diet in 1963 adjusted for inflation. diet in 1963 adjusted for inflation. Based on that measures, the poverty line Based on that measures, the poverty line Based on that measures, the poverty line for a family is set at $31,000 in 2025. for a family is set at $31,000 in 2025. for a family is set at $31,000 in 2025. Green says the real number is over 4x Green says the real number is over 4x Green says the real number is over 4x higher at 140,000. He gets that number higher at 140,000. He gets that number higher at 140,000. He gets that number by factoring the cost of childare which by factoring the cost of childare which by factoring the cost of childare which has surpassed housing as the largest has surpassed housing as the largest has surpassed housing as the largest average expense. He says measuring this average expense. He says measuring this average expense. He says measuring this number for decades has quietly broken number for decades has quietly broken number for decades has quietly broken America and it could explain why America and it could explain why America and it could explain why America's middle class feels poorer America's middle class feels poorer America's middle class feels poorer despite healthy GDP and historically low despite healthy GDP and historically low despite healthy GDP and historically low unemployment 4.x which we've talked unemployment 4.x which we've talked unemployment 4.x which we've talked about here. Chimath, your thoughts. about here. Chimath, your thoughts. about here. Chimath, your thoughts. >> I read this I found his claim to be >> I read this I found his claim to be >> I read this I found his claim to be pretty shocking. So, I just I wanted to pretty shocking. So, I just I wanted to pretty shocking. So, I just I wanted to dig into it. That's why I asked that we dig into it. That's why I asked that we dig into it. That's why I asked that we talked about it. Nick, you can probably talked about it. Nick, you can probably talked about it. Nick, you can probably link to it, but yeah, this thing went link to it, but yeah, this thing went link to it, but yeah, this thing went viral. And basically, it's exactly what viral. And basically, it's exactly what viral. And basically, it's exactly what you said, Jason. Food costs used to be a you said, Jason. Food costs used to be a you said, Jason. Food costs used to be a third of living costs. And so, food used third of living costs. And so, food used third of living costs. And so, food used to cost 10,000. You would multiply it by to cost 10,000. You would multiply it by to cost 10,000. You would multiply it by three and say, well, the total cost of three and say, well, the total cost of three and say, well, the total cost of living is 33,000. That's the poverty living is 33,000. That's the poverty living is 33,000. That's the poverty line. And then what the government did line. And then what the government did line. And then what the government did was they created a whole bunch of was they created a whole bunch of was they created a whole bunch of staircase incentives to get people from staircase incentives to get people from staircase incentives to get people from about 33,000 to about 2x that number to about 33,000 to about 2x that number to about 33,000 to about 2x that number to about 65,000. about 65,000. about 65,000. And then after that you were mostly on And then after that you were mostly on And then after that you were mostly on your own where there were no real your own where there were no real your own where there were no real benefits like SNAP or other things. benefits like SNAP or other things. benefits like SNAP or other things. But what this person was saying is like But what this person was saying is like But what this person was saying is like hey hold on a second food costs are now hey hold on a second food costs are now hey hold on a second food costs are now five or 6%. And so if you gross it up five or 6%. And so if you gross it up five or 6%. And so if you gross it up for the other components, shouldn't the for the other components, shouldn't the for the other components, shouldn't the poverty line be something closer to poverty line be something closer to poverty line be something closer to 140k? And that's a shocking claim. And 140k? And that's a shocking claim. And 140k? And that's a shocking claim. And so I just spent a little bit of time so I just spent a little bit of time so I just spent a little bit of time looking into it. Now he has subsequently looking into it. Now he has subsequently looking into it. Now he has subsequently come back and refined some of the things come back and refined some of the things come back and refined some of the things he said. I think he may have written it he said. I think he may have written it he said. I think he may have written it in a heated moment. So for example, when in a heated moment. So for example, when in a heated moment. So for example, when he looked at that number, he wasn't he looked at that number, he wasn't he looked at that number, he wasn't looking at national averages. He was looking at national averages. He was looking at national averages. He was looking at a bunch of data from a looking at a bunch of data from a looking at a bunch of data from a high-cost suburb of New York City. I high-cost suburb of New York City. I high-cost suburb of New York City. I think it was like Essex County. And so think it was like Essex County. And so think it was like Essex County. And so if you look at the food costs plus if you look at the food costs plus if you look at the food costs plus transportation plus energy plus housing transportation plus energy plus housing transportation plus energy plus housing plus child care in other places that are plus child care in other places that are plus child care in other places that are more more more a median American city. The example that a median American city. The example that a median American city. The example that I think other people were using was I think other people were using was I think other people were using was Lynchburg, Virginia, just as an example. Lynchburg, Virginia, just as an example. Lynchburg, Virginia, just as an example. It does change pretty drastically. You It does change pretty drastically. You It does change pretty drastically. You can use this thing called the MIT living can use this thing called the MIT living can use this thing called the MIT living wage calculator which we did. And if you wage calculator which we did. And if you wage calculator which we did. And if you are in Lynchburg, Virginia, the income are in Lynchburg, Virginia, the income are in Lynchburg, Virginia, the income required for a family of four to meet required for a family of four to meet required for a family of four to meet all expenses there is not 140k, but it's all expenses there is not 140k, but it's all expenses there is not 140k, but it's about 93k. That's still quite a big about 93k. That's still quite a big about 93k. That's still quite a big difference. And when you double click difference. And when you double click difference. And when you double click into where these variances come, a lot into where these variances come, a lot into where these variances come, a lot of it looks like it's around housing and of it looks like it's around housing and of it looks like it's around housing and childare. And I didn't depreciate how childare. And I didn't depreciate how childare. And I didn't depreciate how much and how expensive child care has much and how expensive child care has much and how expensive child care has actually become from anywhere between$1 actually become from anywhere between$1 actually become from anywhere between$1 to $3,000 to $3,000 to $3,000 per month, which is obviously a lot of per month, which is obviously a lot of per month, which is obviously a lot of money. The other thing is that his money. The other thing is that his money. The other thing is that his original article was claiming that if original article was claiming that if original article was claiming that if you're above 33K but under 65K, you're you're above 33K but under 65K, you're you're above 33K but under 65K, you're actually better off staying at 33 actually better off staying at 33 actually better off staying at 33 because every time you go up, you because every time you go up, you because every time you go up, you actually lose a benefit. So the net actually lose a benefit. So the net actually lose a benefit. So the net effect is that you are becoming poorer. effect is that you are becoming poorer. effect is that you are becoming poorer. And it turns out that that math was And it turns out that that math was And it turns out that that math was actually false. When you calculate the actually false. When you calculate the actually false. When you calculate the net resources, meaning income plus net resources, meaning income plus net resources, meaning income plus benefits minus taxes and expenses, a benefits minus taxes and expenses, a benefits minus taxes and expenses, a family family family actually as they step up the staircase actually as they step up the staircase actually as they step up the staircase does earn more in disposable resources does earn more in disposable resources does earn more in disposable resources than a family that's earning less. than a family that's earning less. than a family that's earning less. There is a very specific part of though There is a very specific part of though There is a very specific part of though what he said which I think we should what he said which I think we should what he said which I think we should focus on which is there is an area focus on which is there is an area focus on which is there is an area between $45,000 a year and $63,000 a between $45,000 a year and $63,000 a between $45,000 a year and $63,000 a year which actually looks like a bit of year which actually looks like a bit of year which actually looks like a bit of a stagnation zone. So to the extent that a stagnation zone. So to the extent that a stagnation zone. So to the extent that one is to read this article, one is to read this article, one is to read this article, take away the kind of the buzzy title take away the kind of the buzzy title take away the kind of the buzzy title and whatnot, the thing that is important and whatnot, the thing that is important and whatnot, the thing that is important is to narrowly focus on this one issue, is to narrowly focus on this one issue, is to narrowly focus on this one issue, which is that we do have some policy which is that we do have some policy which is that we do have some policy failures in this zone where earning an failures in this zone where earning an failures in this zone where earning an extra dollar often results in losing a extra dollar often results in losing a extra dollar often results in losing a dollar of benefits like SNAP and other dollar of benefits like SNAP and other dollar of benefits like SNAP and other things. But that's a good thing to know things. But that's a good thing to know things. But that's a good thing to know because now we can narrowly say okay because now we can narrowly say okay because now we can narrowly say okay what are states and what can the federal what are states and what can the federal what are states and what can the federal government do for people in just this government do for people in just this government do for people in just this part of the valley this sort of like part of the valley this sort of like part of the valley this sort of like death valley. The last thing is the death valley. The last thing is the death valley. The last thing is the article was saying look there is no real article was saying look there is no real article was saying look there is no real middle class. There are the people that middle class. There are the people that middle class. There are the people that are above 140k and then there's are above 140k and then there's are above 140k and then there's everybody else in poverty. And if you everybody else in poverty. And if you everybody else in poverty. And if you look at the census data and you look at look at the census data and you look at look at the census data and you look at the percentage of Americans that are the percentage of Americans that are the percentage of Americans that are struggling, those that earn between 100 struggling, those that earn between 100 struggling, those that earn between 100 and 200% of poverty, that percentage has and 200% of poverty, that percentage has and 200% of poverty, that percentage has actually fallen. So the good news is the actually fallen. So the good news is the actually fallen. So the good news is the American economy seems to be doing a American economy seems to be doing a American economy seems to be doing a good job of not just getting people out good job of not just getting people out good job of not just getting people out of poverty, but getting people out of of poverty, but getting people out of of poverty, but getting people out of that struggling bracket, out of that that struggling bracket, out of that that struggling bracket, out of that death valley, and into a place where death valley, and into a place where death valley, and into a place where they're making 200% of that poverty they're making 200% of that poverty they're making 200% of that poverty line. So they're moving up. So the line. So they're moving up. So the line. So they're moving up. So the article was important because I do think article was important because I do think article was important because I do think it starts to say, look, this it starts to say, look, this it starts to say, look, this affordability thing has become a affordability thing has become a affordability thing has become a buzzword. A lot of people on the left buzzword. A lot of people on the left buzzword. A lot of people on the left and the right are using it to try to and the right are using it to try to and the right are using it to try to implement and affect policy. It's really implement and affect policy. It's really implement and affect policy. It's really important for us to be grounded in the important for us to be grounded in the important for us to be grounded in the facts of it. And the facts are that facts of it. And the facts are that facts of it. And the facts are that child care costs have become an child care costs have become an child care costs have become an overwhelming burden for many families. overwhelming burden for many families. overwhelming burden for many families. We probably need to figure out a way to We probably need to figure out a way to We probably need to figure out a way to deal with that. Housing costs are out of deal with that. Housing costs are out of deal with that. Housing costs are out of control. For younger people, student control. For younger people, student control. For younger people, student debt is problematic. But on the other debt is problematic. But on the other debt is problematic. But on the other side, the American economy still does an side, the American economy still does an side, the American economy still does an incredible job of getting people from incredible job of getting people from incredible job of getting people from those lower rungs to multiple hundred those lower rungs to multiple hundred those lower rungs to multiple hundred percentages of that poverty line to get percentages of that poverty line to get percentages of that poverty line to get them on the way. And we just need to them on the way. And we just need to them on the way. And we just need to figure out how to push people up that figure out how to push people up that figure out how to push people up that staircase faster. So, and it feels like staircase faster. So, and it feels like staircase faster. So, and it feels like this dovetailes cham with a discussion this dovetailes cham with a discussion this dovetailes cham with a discussion we had a couple of weeks ago when a we had a couple of weeks ago when a we had a couple of weeks ago when a viral clip of Ben Shapiro talking about, viral clip of Ben Shapiro talking about, viral clip of Ben Shapiro talking about, hey, just opt out of New York City, opt hey, just opt out of New York City, opt hey, just opt out of New York City, opt out of San Francisco, and this whole out of San Francisco, and this whole out of San Francisco, and this whole thing looks completely different. You thing looks completely different. You thing looks completely different. You know, the the idea of somebody who is up know, the the idea of somebody who is up know, the the idea of somebody who is up and coming living in Manhattan or San and coming living in Manhattan or San and coming living in Manhattan or San Francisco is a bit crazy. And in other Francisco is a bit crazy. And in other Francisco is a bit crazy. And in other countries, we don't look at living in countries, we don't look at living in countries, we don't look at living in Paris or Hong Kong, you know, or Dubai Paris or Hong Kong, you know, or Dubai Paris or Hong Kong, you know, or Dubai as like that's where you start your as like that's where you start your as like that's where you start your career and you live in the the city career and you live in the the city career and you live in the the city center. Yeah. Freeberg, center. Yeah. Freeberg, center. Yeah. Freeberg, >> you're saying people >> you're saying people >> you're saying people like would move. I'm not sure. like would move. I'm not sure. like would move. I'm not sure. >> The the point I'm making is to define a >> The the point I'm making is to define a >> The the point I'm making is to define a poverty line for in San Francisco versus poverty line for in San Francisco versus poverty line for in San Francisco versus Austin or Houston is incredibly Austin or Houston is incredibly Austin or Houston is incredibly different because the cost of living is different because the cost of living is different because the cost of living is dramatically different. two, three, 4x. dramatically different. two, three, 4x. dramatically different. two, three, 4x. You know, the cost of a nanny in San You know, the cost of a nanny in San You know, the cost of a nanny in San Francisco or New York is dramatically Francisco or New York is dramatically Francisco or New York is dramatically different than if you live 30 outside of different than if you live 30 outside of different than if you live 30 outside of a city center. One of the challenges a city center. One of the challenges a city center. One of the challenges America faces is America faces is America faces is government programs create an anchor. government programs create an anchor. government programs create an anchor. They are a shackle. They hold people They are a shackle. They hold people They are a shackle. They hold people back when they were supposed to be back when they were supposed to be back when they were supposed to be support payments. And the problem with support payments. And the problem with support payments. And the problem with this that this article highlights is this that this article highlights is this that this article highlights is that the supposed support payments that the supposed support payments that the supposed support payments actually create an incentive or a actually create an incentive or a actually create an incentive or a challenge in moving up the rung or up challenge in moving up the rung or up challenge in moving up the rung or up the ladder. It's probably the case that the ladder. It's probably the case that the ladder. It's probably the case that it is a lot easier to move up the income it is a lot easier to move up the income it is a lot easier to move up the income ladder if you're in certain parts of the ladder if you're in certain parts of the ladder if you're in certain parts of the country than if you're in most of the country than if you're in most of the country than if you're in most of the country. And so most of the country is country. And so most of the country is country. And so most of the country is stagnating wages, but they still feel stagnating wages, but they still feel stagnating wages, but they still feel the effects of inflation. And these the effects of inflation. And these the effects of inflation. And these government programs keep them stuck in government programs keep them stuck in government programs keep them stuck in the position that they're in. This is the position that they're in. This is the position that they're in. This is the spiral the spiral the spiral of socialism. of socialism. of socialism. The government programs that are meant The government programs that are meant The government programs that are meant to provide support to people require an to provide support to people require an to provide support to people require an increase in taxation. That revenue has increase in taxation. That revenue has increase in taxation. That revenue has to come from somewhere. to come from somewhere. to come from somewhere. that taxation ultimately leads to an that taxation ultimately leads to an that taxation ultimately leads to an attrition of economic value in that attrition of economic value in that attrition of economic value in that region and then you have to increase region and then you have to increase region and then you have to increase taxation more and then you end up in taxation more and then you end up in taxation more and then you end up in this spiral and we're seeing this now this spiral and we're seeing this now this spiral and we're seeing this now not just in New York where Mandani is not just in New York where Mandani is not just in New York where Mandani is proposing to increase taxes but across proposing to increase taxes but across proposing to increase taxes but across the entire West Coast. We talked about the entire West Coast. We talked about the entire West Coast. We talked about the 5% billionaire tax that's being the 5% billionaire tax that's being the 5% billionaire tax that's being proposed as a constitutional amendment proposed as a constitutional amendment proposed as a constitutional amendment to go on the ballot in November. There's to go on the ballot in November. There's to go on the ballot in November. There's also a major challenge underway in also a major challenge underway in also a major challenge underway in Oregon where the governor is now trying Oregon where the governor is now trying Oregon where the governor is now trying to figure out how to keep businesses in to figure out how to keep businesses in to figure out how to keep businesses in the state. The CEO of Columbia the state. The CEO of Columbia the state. The CEO of Columbia Sportsear, one of the biggest employers Sportsear, one of the biggest employers Sportsear, one of the biggest employers in the state, came out this week saying in the state, came out this week saying in the state, came out this week saying that his adviserss have recommended that that his adviserss have recommended that that his adviserss have recommended that he leave the state. And in Washington, he leave the state. And in Washington, he leave the state. And in Washington, there is a proposed bill right now to there is a proposed bill right now to there is a proposed bill right now to implement a 5% tax on the payroll of implement a 5% tax on the payroll of implement a 5% tax on the payroll of employees making over $125,000 per year. employees making over $125,000 per year. employees making over $125,000 per year. and Microsoft, Amazon, Costco, and some and Microsoft, Amazon, Costco, and some and Microsoft, Amazon, Costco, and some of the other big employers in that state of the other big employers in that state of the other big employers in that state are now trying to figure out what they are now trying to figure out what they are now trying to figure out what they should do. And in California, as you should do. And in California, as you should do. And in California, as you guys know, in the last couple of guys know, in the last couple of guys know, in the last couple of quarters, Tesla, Chevron, McKessan, quarters, Tesla, Chevron, McKessan, quarters, Tesla, Chevron, McKessan, Oracle, Charles Schwab, CB Richard Oracle, Charles Schwab, CB Richard Oracle, Charles Schwab, CB Richard Ellis, Hullet Packard have all left the Ellis, Hullet Packard have all left the Ellis, Hullet Packard have all left the state. Palanteer, SpaceX, I could go state. Palanteer, SpaceX, I could go state. Palanteer, SpaceX, I could go down this list because as the tax burden down this list because as the tax burden down this list because as the tax burden becomes too high on those companies and becomes too high on those companies and becomes too high on those companies and there's an alternative to them in the there's an alternative to them in the there's an alternative to them in the country, they'll leave. And then you country, they'll leave. And then you country, they'll leave. And then you have this spiral that happens where the have this spiral that happens where the have this spiral that happens where the people that are in that state say, "Wait people that are in that state say, "Wait people that are in that state say, "Wait a second. There's no jobs. There's no a second. There's no jobs. There's no a second. There's no jobs. There's no income gain. We need to increase income gain. We need to increase income gain. We need to increase taxation." And the tax bills get passed. taxation." And the tax bills get passed. taxation." And the tax bills get passed. Norway 2022 passed a wealth tax. The Norway 2022 passed a wealth tax. The Norway 2022 passed a wealth tax. The wealth tax was supposed to raise $146 wealth tax was supposed to raise $146 wealth tax was supposed to raise $146 million of incremental revenue per year. million of incremental revenue per year. million of incremental revenue per year. Instead, what happened? $54 billion of Instead, what happened? $54 billion of Instead, what happened? $54 billion of net worth left the country. And they net worth left the country. And they net worth left the country. And they actually had a $448 million tax loss. actually had a $448 million tax loss. actually had a $448 million tax loss. the taxes declined rather than the taxes declined rather than the taxes declined rather than >> Did they reverse it afterwards or No, >> Did they reverse it afterwards or No, >> Did they reverse it afterwards or No, >> I'm actually not sure the state of >> I'm actually not sure the state of >> I'm actually not sure the state of Norway. Microsoft's president Brad Smith Norway. Microsoft's president Brad Smith Norway. Microsoft's president Brad Smith has said that tech jobs are going to has said that tech jobs are going to has said that tech jobs are going to leave Washington state if this payroll leave Washington state if this payroll leave Washington state if this payroll tax gets passed. And this is the the tax gets passed. And this is the the tax gets passed. And this is the the cycle that's underway. And it starts cycle that's underway. And it starts cycle that's underway. And it starts with the government spending. If we with the government spending. If we with the government spending. If we didn't have the government spending the didn't have the government spending the didn't have the government spending the way it does, where the government's way it does, where the government's way it does, where the government's running a deficit, California is now running a deficit, California is now running a deficit, California is now expected to have a$50 billion plus expected to have a$50 billion plus expected to have a$50 billion plus dollar deficit, then they don't need to dollar deficit, then they don't need to dollar deficit, then they don't need to increase taxes. And this is the core increase taxes. And this is the core increase taxes. And this is the core motivation. Once you're hooked on the motivation. Once you're hooked on the motivation. Once you're hooked on the government for some sort of benefit, government for some sort of benefit, government for some sort of benefit, it's very hard to unhook yourself. It's it's very hard to unhook yourself. It's it's very hard to unhook yourself. It's very hard for a company or a union or an very hard for a company or a union or an very hard for a company or a union or an organization to unhook themselves and it organization to unhook themselves and it organization to unhook themselves and it definitionally becomes a spiral. You definitionally becomes a spiral. You definitionally becomes a spiral. You will not give up that benefit. And so will not give up that benefit. And so will not give up that benefit. And so you have to spend incrementally more and you have to spend incrementally more and you have to spend incrementally more and more and more and more and as you raise more and more and more and as you raise more and more and more and as you raise taxes, you end up losing the tax base taxes, you end up losing the tax base taxes, you end up losing the tax base and it becomes a deficit spiral. That's and it becomes a deficit spiral. That's and it becomes a deficit spiral. That's what leads to socialism. And we have what leads to socialism. And we have what leads to socialism. And we have seen it time and again. It's not a big seen it time and again. It's not a big seen it time and again. It's not a big revolution. It's not like we see where revolution. It's not like we see where revolution. It's not like we see where where where you go from socialism to where where you go from socialism to where where you go from socialism to democratic capitalism where you have a democratic capitalism where you have a democratic capitalism where you have a revolution in the streets. Socialism revolution in the streets. Socialism revolution in the streets. Socialism emerges slowly. It's like a quiet sort emerges slowly. It's like a quiet sort emerges slowly. It's like a quiet sort of hum and then it becomes a roar and of hum and then it becomes a roar and of hum and then it becomes a roar and all of a sudden you're a frog in a pot all of a sudden you're a frog in a pot all of a sudden you're a frog in a pot and you don't realize you're being and you don't realize you're being and you don't realize you're being boiled. boiled. boiled. Pull this up this clip from this is Pull this up this clip from this is Pull this up this clip from this is episode 7 of Allin. I don't think episode 7 of Allin. I don't think episode 7 of Allin. I don't think democracies end um with a bang. I think democracies end um with a bang. I think democracies end um with a bang. I think they end with a whimper. And I think they end with a whimper. And I think they end with a whimper. And I think that's been the case historically. And that's been the case historically. And that's been the case historically. And you know, no democracy has uh has lasted you know, no democracy has uh has lasted you know, no democracy has uh has lasted our our democracy in the US has has our our democracy in the US has has our our democracy in the US has has lasted longer uh than many. Democracies lasted longer uh than many. Democracies lasted longer uh than many. Democracies ultimately enable uh freedom of ultimately enable uh freedom of ultimately enable uh freedom of operation and free markets that um that operation and free markets that um that operation and free markets that um that result in in greater progress than any result in in greater progress than any result in in greater progress than any other governing system. The problem with other governing system. The problem with other governing system. The problem with progress is that progress is asymmetric. progress is that progress is asymmetric. progress is that progress is asymmetric. You have some people who progress at a You have some people who progress at a You have some people who progress at a much greater rate than most. And and it much greater rate than most. And and it much greater rate than most. And and it is that delta that motivates the end of is that delta that motivates the end of is that delta that motivates the end of that system ultimately. While everyone that system ultimately. While everyone that system ultimately. While everyone in the United States or the average and in the United States or the average and in the United States or the average and even the bottom quartile of the even the bottom quartile of the even the bottom quartile of the population in the US is better off than population in the US is better off than population in the US is better off than they were 50 years ago in terms of they were 50 years ago in terms of they were 50 years ago in terms of income and healthcare and shelter and income and healthcare and shelter and income and healthcare and shelter and access to food and access to all these access to food and access to all these access to food and access to all these things. The top 1% of the US is further things. The top 1% of the US is further things. The top 1% of the US is further ahead than the median. And it is that ahead than the median. And it is that ahead than the median. And it is that delta that motivates the end of delta that motivates the end of delta that motivates the end of democracy. And it is that is which is democracy. And it is that is which is democracy. And it is that is which is then perceived to be unfair about this then perceived to be unfair about this then perceived to be unfair about this governing system. And that ultimately governing system. And that ultimately governing system. And that ultimately results in fascism or or socialism. And results in fascism or or socialism. And results in fascism or or socialism. And then fascism results socialism then fascism results socialism then fascism results socialism ultimately restricts anyone from ultimately restricts anyone from ultimately restricts anyone from progression. And that's why fascism and progression. And that's why fascism and progression. And that's why fascism and socialism ultimately end up in in in socialism ultimately end up in in in socialism ultimately end up in in in some sort of, you know, democratic some sort of, you know, democratic some sort of, you know, democratic outcome. And it is a cycle. And, you outcome. And it is a cycle. And, you outcome. And it is a cycle. And, you know, we're kind of in this, you know, know, we're kind of in this, you know, know, we're kind of in this, you know, awkward phase of trying to figure out awkward phase of trying to figure out awkward phase of trying to figure out what the hell we're going to be next. what the hell we're going to be next. what the hell we're going to be next. And I don't think that awkward phase um And I don't think that awkward phase um And I don't think that awkward phase um is realized in the next presidential is realized in the next presidential is realized in the next presidential term, but it is going to be realized in term, but it is going to be realized in term, but it is going to be realized in our lifetime. And I think that's where our lifetime. And I think that's where our lifetime. And I think that's where we're headed. Midterms probably going to we're headed. Midterms probably going to we're headed. Midterms probably going to go to the Democrats in the House. And I go to the Democrats in the House. And I go to the Democrats in the House. And I think you're seeing Ro Kana, Gavin Esome think you're seeing Ro Kana, Gavin Esome think you're seeing Ro Kana, Gavin Esome yesterday on stage at Dealbook talked yesterday on stage at Dealbook talked yesterday on stage at Dealbook talked about redistributing wealth. Ro Kana is about redistributing wealth. Ro Kana is about redistributing wealth. Ro Kana is talking about redistributing wealth. talking about redistributing wealth. talking about redistributing wealth. This is becoming the Democrat party line This is becoming the Democrat party line This is becoming the Democrat party line and they're going to end up trying to and they're going to end up trying to and they're going to end up trying to seize this moment to take these seize this moment to take these seize this moment to take these socialist principles because everyone is socialist principles because everyone is socialist principles because everyone is feeling the burn. They're feeling the feeling the burn. They're feeling the feeling the burn. They're feeling the loss of benefits. They're feeling the loss of benefits. They're feeling the loss of benefits. They're feeling the lack of progress. They're having a tough lack of progress. They're having a tough lack of progress. They're having a tough time moving up the income ladder and time moving up the income ladder and time moving up the income ladder and they're having a tough time paying their they're having a tough time paying their they're having a tough time paying their bills. And so this is the moment where bills. And so this is the moment where bills. And so this is the moment where this democratic socialist movement takes this democratic socialist movement takes this democratic socialist movement takes foot. And probably by 2028, the foot. And probably by 2028, the foot. And probably by 2028, the presidential nominee is going to be not presidential nominee is going to be not presidential nominee is going to be not necessarily a self-declared, but necessarily a self-declared, but necessarily a self-declared, but probably a referenceable, you know, uh, probably a referenceable, you know, uh, probably a referenceable, you know, uh, socialist. socialist. socialist. >> Democrat socialist. Yeah, >> Democrat socialist. Yeah, >> Democrat socialist. Yeah, >> democrat socialist. I mean, best advice, >> democrat socialist. I mean, best advice, >> democrat socialist. I mean, best advice, have two plans. One, a state uh, that is have two plans. One, a state uh, that is have two plans. One, a state uh, that is committed to capitalism. Texas comes to committed to capitalism. Texas comes to committed to capitalism. Texas comes to mind. And number two, you kind of have mind. And number two, you kind of have mind. And number two, you kind of have to have a country as a backup plan in to have a country as a backup plan in to have a country as a backup plan in case this goes across the whole country. case this goes across the whole country. case this goes across the whole country. Have you guys been tracking the Have you guys been tracking the Have you guys been tracking the California wealth tax? As a former California wealth tax? As a former California wealth tax? As a former California resident, I'm curious how California resident, I'm curious how California resident, I'm curious how you're interpreting these recent moves. you're interpreting these recent moves. you're interpreting these recent moves. >> I think we're all seriously thinking >> I think we're all seriously thinking >> I think we're all seriously thinking about moving out. I mean, it's kind of about moving out. I mean, it's kind of about moving out. I mean, it's kind of crazy. crazy. crazy. >> But did you see I think Nuome came out >> But did you see I think Nuome came out >> But did you see I think Nuome came out and said that he was going to oppose it. and said that he was going to oppose it. and said that he was going to oppose it. Is that right? Is that right? Is that right? >> But it it doesn't matter because if uh >> But it it doesn't matter because if uh >> But it it doesn't matter because if uh the California voters voted in, it goes the California voters voted in, it goes the California voters voted in, it goes immediately into a immediately into a immediately into a >> Let's not look a gift horse in the mouth >> Let's not look a gift horse in the mouth >> Let's not look a gift horse in the mouth here. I think this is a moment to thank here. I think this is a moment to thank here. I think this is a moment to thank Governor Governor Governor >> Nome >> Nome >> Nome >> for representing the interests of tech >> for representing the interests of tech >> for representing the interests of tech logarchs like us. We really appreciate logarchs like us. We really appreciate logarchs like us. We really appreciate you coming out against this wealth tax. you coming out against this wealth tax. you coming out against this wealth tax. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> So thank you. >> So thank you. >> So thank you. >> We really appreciate it on behalf of all >> We really appreciate it on behalf of all >> We really appreciate it on behalf of all the techarchs. Thank you the techarchs. Thank you the techarchs. Thank you >> for opposing this wealth tax. >> for opposing this wealth tax. >> for opposing this wealth tax. >> In fact, the All-In podcast endorses >> In fact, the All-In podcast endorses >> In fact, the All-In podcast endorses Gavin Newsome's support of billionaires Gavin Newsome's support of billionaires Gavin Newsome's support of billionaires and sent to millionaires everywhere. He and sent to millionaires everywhere. He and sent to millionaires everywhere. He supports all of us equally, even the supports all of us equally, even the supports all of us equally, even the poor sent millionaires and as high as poor sent millionaires and as high as poor sent millionaires and as high as the billionaires and even the deck of the billionaires and even the deck of the billionaires and even the deck of billionaires. We have some billionaires. We have some billionaires. We have some >> Thank you for standing up against the >> Thank you for standing up against the >> Thank you for standing up against the Bernie Sanders AOC wing of the party. Bernie Sanders AOC wing of the party. Bernie Sanders AOC wing of the party. >> Yes. If he it's somebody has to stand up >> Yes. If he it's somebody has to stand up >> Yes. If he it's somebody has to stand up against this democratic socialism and against this democratic socialism and against this democratic socialism and and Gavin Newsome is the guy. and Gavin Newsome is the guy. and Gavin Newsome is the guy. >> What do you think happens if Fitch just >> What do you think happens if Fitch just >> What do you think happens if Fitch just tax 5% of all net worth and you have a tax 5% of all net worth and you have a tax 5% of all net worth and you have a bunch of illquid private assets? What bunch of illquid private assets? What bunch of illquid private assets? What are you supposed to do? are you supposed to do? are you supposed to do? >> Chaos. Yeah. It's going to be a mess. By >> Chaos. Yeah. It's going to be a mess. By >> Chaos. Yeah. It's going to be a mess. By the way, what that bill Chimoff says is the way, what that bill Chimoff says is the way, what that bill Chimoff says is you can have a deferral. So, you can you can have a deferral. So, you can you can have a deferral. So, you can actually defer the tax payment, but you actually defer the tax payment, but you actually defer the tax payment, but you have to have it booked that year. So, have to have it booked that year. So, have to have it booked that year. So, well, you you can defer it, but you can well, you you can defer it, but you can well, you you can defer it, but you can defer it into 1/5if payable for a year defer it into 1/5if payable for a year defer it into 1/5if payable for a year for 5 years. So, that's not really a for 5 years. So, that's not really a for 5 years. So, that's not really a deferral. That's just installments that deferral. That's just installments that deferral. That's just installments that I think they said to 5 to 7% interest. I think they said to 5 to 7% interest. I think they said to 5 to 7% interest. Let's just say that we could do a Let's just say that we could do a Let's just say that we could do a financing for something that we've financing for something that we've financing for something that we've started, but it just all of a sudden started, but it just all of a sudden started, but it just all of a sudden what is a financing? It's nothing. It's what is a financing? It's nothing. It's what is a financing? It's nothing. It's somebody's guess about future value. somebody's guess about future value. somebody's guess about future value. It's has nothing to do with today's It's has nothing to do with today's It's has nothing to do with today's value. Right. But if a financing for a value. Right. But if a financing for a value. Right. But if a financing for a company all of a sudden would trigger a company all of a sudden would trigger a company all of a sudden would trigger a bunch of phantom tax that's due bunch of phantom tax that's due bunch of phantom tax that's due >> right >> right >> right >> that I I mean I'll be honest, I don't >> that I I mean I'll be honest, I don't >> that I I mean I'll be honest, I don't have money sitting around to pay 5% of have money sitting around to pay 5% of have money sitting around to pay 5% of an imputed valuation of a company that an imputed valuation of a company that an imputed valuation of a company that I'm in the midst of building. I'm in the midst of building. I'm in the midst of building. >> Look at what Sach Look at what Sachs >> Look at what Sach Look at what Sachs >> Look at what Sach Look at what Sachs just talked about. He had to sell his just talked about. He had to sell his just talked about. He had to sell his private assets at a 50% discount. private assets at a 50% discount. private assets at a 50% discount. >> Oh, I would have to I would have to >> Oh, I would have to I would have to >> Oh, I would have to I would have to exact. So, you create this like negative exact. So, you create this like negative exact. So, you create this like negative reflexive downward spiral. reflexive downward spiral. reflexive downward spiral. >> And it doesn't it doesn't stop there. >> And it doesn't it doesn't stop there. >> And it doesn't it doesn't stop there. So, think about where this goes. So, so So, think about where this goes. So, so So, think about where this goes. So, so yes, that's a problem for rich people. yes, that's a problem for rich people. yes, that's a problem for rich people. Great. No one gives a [ __ ] about us. No Great. No one gives a [ __ ] about us. No Great. No one gives a [ __ ] about us. No one gives a [ __ ] about people that have one gives a [ __ ] about people that have one gives a [ __ ] about people that have to sell highly valued private stock. But to sell highly valued private stock. But to sell highly valued private stock. But where does this go? In the proposed where does this go? In the proposed where does this go? In the proposed billionaire tax, it actually gives power billionaire tax, it actually gives power billionaire tax, it actually gives power and authority to the California state and authority to the California state and authority to the California state legislature that they can actually redo legislature that they can actually redo legislature that they can actually redo this wealth tax at a different level and this wealth tax at a different level and this wealth tax at a different level and a different rate in the future. Think a different rate in the future. Think a different rate in the future. Think about what that does. It now gives about what that does. It now gives about what that does. It now gives property seizure rights to the property seizure rights to the property seizure rights to the California state legislature to set a California state legislature to set a California state legislature to set a value level. So anyone now that's got value level. So anyone now that's got value level. So anyone now that's got over a hundred million net worth and over a hundred million net worth and over a hundred million net worth and then it becomes over 10 million and then then it becomes over 10 million and then then it becomes over 10 million and then anyone with a million dollar net worth anyone with a million dollar net worth anyone with a million dollar net worth and the state can take 5% of your assets and the state can take 5% of your assets and the state can take 5% of your assets every year. very quickly it becomes the every year. very quickly it becomes the every year. very quickly it becomes the process by which socialism and the process by which socialism and the process by which socialism and the socialization of assets that gets seized socialization of assets that gets seized socialization of assets that gets seized by the government is realized. by the government is realized. by the government is realized. >> So what's the what's the bull work on >> So what's the what's the bull work on >> So what's the what's the bull work on this? What how this? What how this? What how >> this is why I've been saying for years >> this is why I've been saying for years >> this is why I've been saying for years this is the direction we're headed this is the direction we're headed this is the direction we're headed because the because the because the >> I give you the I give you the victory. >> I give you the I give you the victory. >> I give you the I give you the victory. Congrats. Congrats. Congrats. >> But the root cause of it is government >> But the root cause of it is government >> But the root cause of it is government spending. spending. spending. >> I think it's pretty it's pretty >> I think it's pretty it's pretty >> I think it's pretty it's pretty straightforward. you just move to a straightforward. you just move to a straightforward. you just move to a state that is committed to capital state that is committed to capital state that is committed to capital capitalism and capitalism and capitalism and >> but then it becomes a federal decision >> but then it becomes a federal decision >> but then it becomes a federal decision >> and then if that doesn't work you're >> and then if that doesn't work you're >> and then if that doesn't work you're going to need to have an escape hatch to going to need to have an escape hatch to going to need to have an escape hatch to Dubai. We have a we have a problem in Dubai. We have a we have a problem in Dubai. We have a we have a problem in this country and the problem is too much this country and the problem is too much this country and the problem is too much progress. progress. progress. >> Too much progress too fast has led to a >> Too much progress too fast has led to a >> Too much progress too fast has led to a distribution of capital that is so distribution of capital that is so distribution of capital that is so asymmetric that Gavin Newsome said on asymmetric that Gavin Newsome said on asymmetric that Gavin Newsome said on stage yesterday 10% of the population stage yesterday 10% of the population stage yesterday 10% of the population own 2/3 of the assets. That may or may own 2/3 of the assets. That may or may own 2/3 of the assets. That may or may not seem right to you but that is the not seem right to you but that is the not seem right to you but that is the reality of what happens when you have reality of what happens when you have reality of what happens when you have progress when you build technology progress when you build technology progress when you build technology companies. When you build car companies companies. When you build car companies companies. When you build car companies when you build when America wins when you build when America wins when you build when America wins globally. You say America, but it's not globally. You say America, but it's not globally. You say America, but it's not all Americans. And this is the point. all Americans. And this is the point. all Americans. And this is the point. This is what's going on. This is what's going on. This is what's going on. >> Those of us who are on this Zoom and our >> Those of us who are on this Zoom and our >> Those of us who are on this Zoom and our cohort of friends cohort of friends cohort of friends >> are the ones who have mostly benefited >> are the ones who have mostly benefited >> are the ones who have mostly benefited from America quote winning. from America quote winning. from America quote winning. >> The rest of America has been left >> The rest of America has been left >> The rest of America has been left behind. behind. behind. >> True. >> True. >> True. >> And the mechanism and the mechanism for >> And the mechanism and the mechanism for >> And the mechanism and the mechanism for recapture, the mechanism for restoration recapture, the mechanism for restoration recapture, the mechanism for restoration of equality as everyone views it is of equality as everyone views it is of equality as everyone views it is these measures, these voting measures, these measures, these voting measures, these measures, these voting measures, these elected officials. Let me give it these elected officials. Let me give it these elected officials. Let me give it to you. I understand that's how people to you. I understand that's how people to you. I understand that's how people feel and it is true that we have this feel and it is true that we have this feel and it is true that we have this disparity in wealth. I think the disparity in wealth. I think the disparity in wealth. I think the counterargument that most people would counterargument that most people would counterargument that most people would make is well what is our unemployment make is well what is our unemployment make is well what is our unemployment rate? How many people around the world rate? How many people around the world rate? How many people around the world are trying to get into this country? And are trying to get into this country? And are trying to get into this country? And what is the status of folks coming up in what is the status of folks coming up in what is the status of folks coming up in this country? If we didn't have the this country? If we didn't have the this country? If we didn't have the problem with housing and education and problem with housing and education and problem with housing and education and healthcare, those are the big three. healthcare, those are the big three. healthcare, those are the big three. That's what I think this is really That's what I think this is really That's what I think this is really about. If you solve housing, which was about. If you solve housing, which was about. If you solve housing, which was solved in Texas and Florida and Nevada, solved in Texas and Florida and Nevada, solved in Texas and Florida and Nevada, they let you build supply. People don't they let you build supply. People don't they let you build supply. People don't feel as bad about their lot in life, feel as bad about their lot in life, feel as bad about their lot in life, they don't feel as bad about their they don't feel as bad about their they don't feel as bad about their progress. If we solved tuition and we progress. If we solved tuition and we progress. If we solved tuition and we paired it, like we've talked about paired it, like we've talked about paired it, like we've talked about countless times here, and the loans countless times here, and the loans countless times here, and the loans matched the outcomes, we would not have matched the outcomes, we would not have matched the outcomes, we would not have this. And if people felt didn't feel the this. And if people felt didn't feel the this. And if people felt didn't feel the fear of going bankrupt from healthcare, fear of going bankrupt from healthcare, fear of going bankrupt from healthcare, I think we would have a much different I think we would have a much different I think we would have a much different country. I think that's what the country. I think that's what the country. I think that's what the referendum is going to be in 2028 is referendum is going to be in 2028 is referendum is going to be in 2028 is those three issues. If you're going to those three issues. If you're going to those three issues. If you're going to be president, you got to solve housing be president, you got to solve housing be president, you got to solve housing and get people out of the way and build and get people out of the way and build and get people out of the way and build housing stock. Number two, you got to housing stock. Number two, you got to housing stock. Number two, you got to give some people some basic health care give some people some basic health care give some people some basic health care so they don't feel they're going to get so they don't feel they're going to get so they don't feel they're going to get bankrupt. Number three, they got to fix bankrupt. Number three, they got to fix bankrupt. Number three, they got to fix education. Those are the three horsemen education. Those are the three horsemen education. Those are the three horsemen of the apocalypse and socialism. of the apocalypse and socialism. of the apocalypse and socialism. >> In my opin, >> In my opin, >> In my opin, we will solve this problem. we will solve this problem. we will solve this problem. >> I think you're too rational. The way >> I think you're too rational. The way >> I think you're too rational. The way politics works is you find a group to politics works is you find a group to politics works is you find a group to blame and you blame them and that's how blame and you blame them and that's how blame and you blame them and that's how you get elected. you get elected. you get elected. >> The group runs for [ __ ] president. >> The group runs for [ __ ] president. >> The group runs for [ __ ] president. >> The group to blame is going to be the >> The group to blame is going to be the >> The group to blame is going to be the tech and the elite. only one of the tech and the elite. only one of the tech and the elite. only one of the three four of us that can. So, three four of us that can. So, three four of us that can. So, >> well, I got a kitchen cabinet, by the >> well, I got a kitchen cabinet, by the >> well, I got a kitchen cabinet, by the way. We'll just we'll run it as a way. We'll just we'll run it as a way. We'll just we'll run it as a Fantastic Four. I I'll be the figurehead Fantastic Four. I I'll be the figurehead Fantastic Four. I I'll be the figurehead and then we'll just sit there. Let's and then we'll just sit there. Let's and then we'll just sit there. Let's solve these three problems. If when I solve these three problems. If when I solve these three problems. If when I run for president, I'm going to start 10 run for president, I'm going to start 10 run for president, I'm going to start 10 new cities with a million houses in new cities with a million houses in new cities with a million houses in each. That's going to be the number one each. That's going to be the number one each. That's going to be the number one priority. Number two priority is priority. Number two priority is priority. Number two priority is universal healthcare for everybody using universal healthcare for everybody using universal healthcare for everybody using technology. GLPS, Daniel X, 3D scanner, technology. GLPS, Daniel X, 3D scanner, technology. GLPS, Daniel X, 3D scanner, prunovo, whatever. And then number prunovo, whatever. And then number prunovo, whatever. And then number three, I mean, just trade schools. Let's three, I mean, just trade schools. Let's three, I mean, just trade schools. Let's make trade schools free. just talked make trade schools free. just talked make trade schools free. just talked about electricians. We talked about about electricians. We talked about about electricians. We talked about generation tool belt. Let's make trade generation tool belt. Let's make trade generation tool belt. Let's make trade schools free or make them $20,000. You schools free or make them $20,000. You schools free or make them $20,000. You can pay it back over 20 years, $1,000 a can pay it back over 20 years, $1,000 a can pay it back over 20 years, $1,000 a year, no interest. You know, come up year, no interest. You know, come up year, no interest. You know, come up with that. That's the platform that wins with that. That's the platform that wins with that. That's the platform that wins versus let's raise taxes to 60%. Because versus let's raise taxes to 60%. Because versus let's raise taxes to 60%. Because you raise taxes 60%, I'll tell you you raise taxes 60%, I'll tell you you raise taxes 60%, I'll tell you what's going to happen. People going to what's going to happen. People going to what's going to happen. People going to retire and stop investing in companies. retire and stop investing in companies. retire and stop investing in companies. It's not worth it to go to work and give It's not worth it to go to work and give It's not worth it to go to work and give 60 or 70% of your outcome to the 60 or 70% of your outcome to the 60 or 70% of your outcome to the government. People will just stop government. People will just stop government. People will just stop working, which is what happened in working, which is what happened in working, which is what happened in Europe. people just like screw it. I'll Europe. people just like screw it. I'll Europe. people just like screw it. I'll just be rich. I'll stop investing. just be rich. I'll stop investing. just be rich. I'll stop investing. >> It sucks, man. I think it sucks. >> It sucks, man. I think it sucks. >> It sucks, man. I think it sucks. >> I think there's a clear path out. There >> I think there's a clear path out. There >> I think there's a clear path out. There is a clear path out. Solve the three big is a clear path out. Solve the three big is a clear path out. Solve the three big >> I think. I think look, I think AI is a >> I think. I think look, I think AI is a >> I think. I think look, I think AI is a path if we get if leverage into the path if we get if leverage into the path if we get if leverage into the hands of every person in the United hands of every person in the United hands of every person in the United States in the world. If we get abundant States in the world. If we get abundant States in the world. If we get abundant free energy through new energy systems free energy through new energy systems free energy through new energy systems and if we can extend human lifespan and and if we can extend human lifespan and and if we can extend human lifespan and health span, I think those are the three health span, I think those are the three health span, I think those are the three abundance vectors. And if those three abundance vectors. And if those three abundance vectors. And if those three vectors hit, I think all bets are off. vectors hit, I think all bets are off. vectors hit, I think all bets are off. and um and we can get out of this nasty and um and we can get out of this nasty and um and we can get out of this nasty spiral. But I do think we have the spiral. But I do think we have the spiral. But I do think we have the choice every day. Do we want to go into choice every day. Do we want to go into choice every day. Do we want to go into the enlightenment or do we want to go the enlightenment or do we want to go the enlightenment or do we want to go into the dark ages? I keep saying that. into the dark ages? I keep saying that. into the dark ages? I keep saying that. >> Let's solve those three big problems. >> Let's solve those three big problems. >> Let's solve those three big problems. All right, listen. Another amazing All right, listen. Another amazing All right, listen. Another amazing episode of the Allin podcast. episode of the Allin podcast. episode of the Allin podcast. >> I think Jake just announced he's running >> I think Jake just announced he's running >> I think Jake just announced he's running for president. for president. for president. >> I'm ask presidentjason.com. >> I'm ask presidentjason.com. >> I'm ask presidentjason.com. >> Go ahead. >> Go ahead. >> Go ahead. >> Is Jeff Bezos going to be your running >> Is Jeff Bezos going to be your running >> Is Jeff Bezos going to be your running mate? JL is running. mate? JL is running. mate? JL is running. >> He did say >> He did say >> He did say >> Bezos could be your VP. >> Bezos could be your VP. >> Bezos could be your VP. >> Oh. Um >> Oh. Um >> Oh. Um >> Oh, no wait. Jamie Diamond and Bezos. >> Oh, no wait. Jamie Diamond and Bezos. >> Oh, no wait. Jamie Diamond and Bezos. >> Go to boosted. >> Go to boosted. >> Go to boosted. com if you want to buy merch. I got this com if you want to buy merch. I got this com if you want to buy merch. I got this great pink hat on great pink hat on great pink hat on >> the pink hat. Oh, man. We're We're also >> the pink hat. Oh, man. We're We're also >> the pink hat. Oh, man. We're We're also vested in your success when you didn't vested in your success when you didn't vested in your success when you didn't allow any of us to invest in your allow any of us to invest in your allow any of us to invest in your company. Thanks, bestie. company. Thanks, bestie. company. Thanks, bestie. >> Yeah, we all feel so vested. Uh go I I >> Yeah, we all feel so vested. Uh go I I >> Yeah, we all feel so vested. Uh go I I supported Freeberg for the last five supported Freeberg for the last five supported Freeberg for the last five years, made him famous, and all I got years, made him famous, and all I got years, made him famous, and all I got was an Ohalo hat. How about you, Chamal? was an Ohalo hat. How about you, Chamal? was an Ohalo hat. How about you, Chamal? >> You got a quarter the equity? >> You got a quarter the equity? >> You got a quarter the equity? >> You got a hat? >> You got a hat? >> You got a hat? >> I got a hat. And I invested in his three >> I got a hat. And I invested in his three >> I got a hat. And I invested in his three companies that failed. I got a hat, BUT companies that failed. I got a hat, BUT companies that failed. I got a hat, BUT I HAVE NO OH [ __ ] CAN YOU JUST give us I HAVE NO OH [ __ ] CAN YOU JUST give us I HAVE NO OH [ __ ] CAN YOU JUST give us 10 bips each in Ohio so we can end this? 10 bips each in Ohio so we can end this? 10 bips each in Ohio so we can end this? >> No, I'll take a hat. I'll take a free >> No, I'll take a hat. I'll take a free >> No, I'll take a hat. I'll take a free hat. hat. hat. >> You'll take the hat or 10 bips. How >> You'll take the hat or 10 bips. How >> You'll take the hat or 10 bips. How about five bips in a hat? about five bips in a hat? about five bips in a hat? >> I'll take a hat. I'll take some advice. >> I'll take a hat. I'll take some advice. >> I'll take a hat. I'll take some advice. >> Don't tell people you're running for >> Don't tell people you're running for >> Don't tell people you're running for president. That's my That's my tip for president. That's my That's my tip for president. That's my That's my tip for you. you. you. >> I'm being facitious. Can I get a uh >> I'm being facitious. Can I get a uh >> I'm being facitious. Can I get a uh Parker? Do you have a mug? Parker? Do you have a mug? Parker? Do you have a mug? >> Gentlemen, I got to go. Love you. Take >> Gentlemen, I got to go. Love you. Take >> Gentlemen, I got to go. Love you. Take care. care. care. >> All right, everybody. Love you besties. >> All right, everybody. Love you besties. >> All right, everybody. Love you besties. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. >> Bye-bye. >> Bye-bye. >> Bye-bye. >> We'll let your winners ride. And it said we open sourced it to the And it said we open sourced it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with fans and they've just gone crazy with fans and they've just gone crazy with it. Love you queen of it. Love you queen of it. Love you queen of winners. >> Besties are gone. >> Besties are gone. >> That is my dog taking your driveways. >> Oh man. Myasher will eat. We should all >> Oh man. Myasher will eat. We should all just get a room and just have one big just get a room and just have one big just get a room and just have one big huge orgy cuz they're all just useless. huge orgy cuz they're all just useless. huge orgy cuz they're all just useless. It's like this like sexual tension that It's like this like sexual tension that It's like this like sexual tension that you just need to release somehow. >> Your feet. >> Your feet. >> That's going to be good. We need to get >> That's going to be good. We need to get >> That's going to be good. We need to get merch. I'm going all in.