Money Expert: If You’re Living Paycheck to Paycheck, Please Watch This Video!

Key Takeaway

Having a financial plan matters more than perfect execution. The person who creates a plan and adjusts it quarterly will build wealth, while the person who tries to change everything at once gets overwhelmed and quits. Start by setting one SMART goal (specific, measurable, actionable, realistic, time-bound), identify your financial strengths and weaknesses, and find a mentor who's achieved what you want. Each small iteration compounds over time into transformational change.

Episode Overview

Vivian Tu, former Wall Street trader and personal finance expert, discusses the growing wealth divide in America and provides a practical roadmap for building financial security. She warns against gambling disguised as 'prediction markets,' emphasizes that true wealth isn't just about money, and explains why most Americans are stuck in a 'B+ life' - comfortable enough not to change, but not fulfilled. The episode focuses on actionable steps anyone can take in 2026 to create lasting financial peace, regardless of their starting point.

Full Transcript

Transcript of Money Expert: If You’re Living Paycheck to Paycheck, Please Watch This Video! from The School of Greatness. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

Our middle class is shrinking. More people will go into that category of kings and more people will go into that category of really suffering. There will be people who figure it out. But then there's also a group of people who aren't going to be able to figure it out. Their life is going to get meaningfully worse. You are going to see people continuously wake up one day in their 40s or 50s and look at themselves in the mirror and be like, "What happened?" "What happened?" "What happened?" She's one of the most trusted voices in personal finance today.

She's a former Wall Street trader turned top podcaster and best-selling author. Please welcome Vivian 2. I am going to sit here and be the first person to tell you it ain't fair. Life ain't fair. Some people are born on third base. Some people are out in the parking lot with the person who is selling those illegal hot dogs that does not have a vendor's license. But just because our current society is not perfect, does not mean that you can lose hope. What are the first three steps someone should take to set themselves up by the end of 2026?

They feel like they have a lot more peace because of the actions they've taken with this three-step game plan. plan. plan. I would say every time I'm around you, I feel wealthier. I feel like money pours into my heart and there's just abundance that is just coming to me because you give such good wisdom and strategies on how to mentally, emotionally, and tactically create more financial freedom in your life. So, thank you for being here. You've got a new book called Wellendowed, the last book you had crushed.

And this book is about the secrets to strategic spending, building a financial foundation for you and your family and creating lasting generational wealth. Make sure you guys get a copy of this. And as someone who just got married this year and just had twins recently, this is exactly what I need to start learning. start learning. start learning. And I probably should have started learning this stuff years ago before getting married and before having kids. There seems to be a lot of financial insecurity in the world right now now now and specifically over the last five years.

We're we're at this like half of a decade mark since co right and 2030 is going to be here before we know it. know it. know it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Where 2026 starting out right now as this episode comes out and there just seems to be a lot of financial insecurity, financial stress, financial uncertainty about what's happening in the future and do I have enough money? Yeah. Do I have enough money to prepare myself, my family, my spouse, my kids for a safe and healthy future?

So, the first question is that there's a lot of myths that I see happening on social media, people talking about money everywhere now. Some stuff is really helpful, some things are not. What would you say is the biggest money myth that you're seeing online right now on social media that you think we should debunk or you think just doesn't really have any weight right now? Yeah, I think one of the scariest things I'm seeing right now is the and I quote prediction market. So you've heard of these brands where basically you can essentially say ah I'm going to and again quote big air quotes here invest in who potentially might win this political election or who might win this basketball game or football game or who might you know will this person say this in their live television broadcast and these brands and I see these ads and it pisses me off to no end because they're like oh well these billionaires are investing in the prediction market.

These billionaires are not placing predictions in the prediction market. They are investing in the brand because this is an old brand. It is a brand as old as time, frankly. And it's called gambling. gambling. gambling. Okay. Um Okay. Um Okay. Um I'm not even just talking, you know, like Vegas slots. I'm talking bring it back to the olden days of horse betting where you had a bookie. Like that is what you're doing here. You are betting on an outcome. This is not investing. This is not a market.

You have literally opened a book. You've opened a sports book, but for real life things happening for life events. Life events. Life events. Life events. And we are conflating gambling, which let's be clear, nobody is a good gambler. There might be some really, really talented poker players who, you know, have honed in those skills, what have you, but nobody's a good gambler. Nobody is good at the slot machine. Nobody is good at the roulette table. Nobody's good at gambling. You cannot get better. It is luck and the house always wins.

always wins. always wins. And so my thing is is when you see these prediction markets, just know it is akin to you flipping a coin and putting money on if it's going to land heads or tails. And I think it's incredibly silly to call that investing because it will likely lead to you depleting your wealth versus increasing it. Yeah. It's very addictive. It's very like adrenaline rush. You get a little confetti sign every time you place like a thing like of course like course like course like you feel good.

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, that's crazy. that's crazy. that's crazy. Maybe I'll win something, right? And it's a real problem because the we talked about this, you just mentioned like it feels like it has been a hard economic time. When people get into modes of desperation, they see these types of opportunities [snorts] as a way to fix all their problems. If I take this unlikely bet, I take a eightgame parlay and somehow it hits, all of my problems will be solved. But I'm telling you, they won't be.

They won't be. You're just going to be another however much in the hole. And if you won that, you're going to try to double down again. Probably. And then you're going to lose it eventually. You're not going to say, you know what, I'm just a one anddone thing. I'm only going to gamble one time, win big, and then stop forever. There is a reason why on every single advertisement for a sports book, for a casino, anything they have to put at the bottom, call, you know, gambling addicts synonymous or whatever.

And like they have to do all of that disclaimer because it's a vice in the same way that cigarette boxes have to tell you that it it is cancerous, carcinogenic, that alcohol labels have to have, you know, like drink responsibly, like it's a vice. And it is incredibly addictive because it operates on the same neural pathways as other addictive substances. Yeah. Yeah. If you're going to gamble, you need to look at it as entertainment. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And just say if I go to Vegas and I spend like $300 on roulette.

Yeah. It's like 200 for you, 300 for me. I'm a little more risky. You know, 300 bucks. I'm like, "All right, this is my 2hour window. It's like going to a very expensive movie. I'm watching a movie. It costs money. win or lose, I walk away being entertained being entertained being entertained but not risking like I need this money. And there's an energy around going into gambling. I always go in having fun. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I used to when I was poor Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. like 15 years ago, I used to go gamble and [snorts] $100 was like everything to me.

me. me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I had this kind of anxious energy where I really didn't want to lose the money. money. money. Of course. Of course. Of course. And I lost it every time because you weren't playing to win, you were playing not to lose. Exactly. And now I play so light and free because I don't look at it as like I need to make this money back. And I feel like I win every time. I probably don't. don't. don't. You don't. You don't. You don't.

But I feel like, man, I'm just winning left and right. And it's more of an enjoyable experience rather than all my hopes and dreams on if this hits red seven. You know what I mean? Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And you've got to switch your mind into thinking like, I can't gamble at all unless it's just fun and I have and I have nothing to lose with a couple hundred bucks here or there. And I know it's just money that I'm never gonna get back. back. back. It's the cost of admission to the movie.

Yeah. Don't spend thousands, though. No. Spend like a hundred bucks. That movie is not worth it. No, it's not worth it because it could be gone in a second, too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I'm curious. The last time you were on, we talked about the difference between real rich and fake rich. Yeah. And people really love that response. But I'm really curious, what's the biggest mindset difference that you see from people who are building wealth versus people who stay stuck in scarcity? scarcity? scarcity? I think it's the desire and comfort with discomfort.

So you have to be you have to get comfortable being uncomfortable because what is the worst thing for any anything frankly any human any object any animal whatever it's change. We are creatures of habit. It is nice to wake up and know exactly what's going to happen, right? That is why people stay at jobs for longer than they should. It's why they stay in relationships for longer than they probably should. It is why people are when they're scared and they don't know what to do, they're like, "I guess I'll just keep doing exactly what I'm currently doing and change [clears throat] nothing." But changing nothing can mean you are stuck in uh what my friend Susie Welch likes to call a B+ life.

M she's a professor at NYU and the way she explained it was if you have like a C minus life everything kind of sucks right you don't live where you want to live you don't have reliable transportation you don't get to go on trips you don't really have friends everything sucks and you are so motivated to change it and if you have an A+ life everything is amazing you get to do what you want to do you are incredibly incentivized to keep that life life life but a B+ life is the most dangerous one because it is one where you could tread water for years and you could get stuck in a life that you are not fully satisfied in but isn't so terrible that you feel compelled to change it.

And so I think the difference between people who are able to grow wealth and the people who stay stuck is being able to recognize that you have to give up good to have great. I've heard this so many times when I've done my events that a lot of people will tell me, you know, Lewis, I make 120 grand a year. I've got two beautiful kids. I've been married for 8 to 10 years. My life is really good and I'm just something's missing. I feel a little miserable because it is good.

And you think like anyone looking at this person would say, "Man, you've got a great life. Why don't you just appreciate and enjoy it?" but they know they're not reaching into some type of potential they could be doing or they're in a career that they enjoy but it's really not what's been gnawing at them emotionally. It's not what's been on their heart to go pursue at least doing something on the side and they just stay comfortable. And I think when people stay comfortable and they're not willing to just constantly reinvest in their personal growth, constantly reinvest in learning about the financial opportunities in front of them or taking the risks which is a financial investment as well.

Taking that emotional risk or trying something new that B+ life is scary I think for a lot of people. of people. of people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe they they like it for a while but then eventually they think they think something's off. I think we have to remember also growth has growing pains. You of all people as tall as you are probably remember being a teen and your knees hurt. knees hurt. knees hurt. My knees hurt so bad. I was just going to say this like for years as I was like my knees are in pain.

But I think we all talk about like growth being this wonderful flower sprouting out of the No. Growing sucks. It hurts. Sometimes it leaves stretch marks. Sometimes like you know sometimes it's it's not so fun. Sometimes, you know, you overnight are in a shirt that is just a little too small. And I think we have to remember that like growth does not happen overnight. But it also when it does happen isn't comfortable. It's not easy. And sometimes it hurts. It hurts. It always hurts. Yeah. I feel like it's always going to hurt.

It always hurts. And that's why people stay stuck being comfortable in that B+ life. How many people do you think are living a B+ life right now in America? Most of them. Really? Really? Really? Yeah. I think probably at least half I would say there are certain there's a certain set of the population that is really really gutting it out right now. They are having an incredibly hard time. They've had an incredibly hard time for quite some time now and they are really really hand-to-mouth trying to make things happen.

Day by day, month by month. These are not the people I'm talking about. about. about. No. There's also a subset of Americans that are living a life beyond anybody's wallest imagination. Kings. Kings. Kings. Kings. But the vast majority of people fall into this B+ life. And similarly to immediately after co I think over the next 5 years we are going to see both a financial K-shaped divergence as well as a overall like lifestyle satisfaction K-shaped divergence. K-shaped divergence. K-shaped divergence. What does that mean? So a K-shaped divergence is just an economic principle that like outcomes will be different for different people.

So postcoid right there was a K-shaped economic divergence in that the white collar professionals that got to stay home saw this incredible growth in the stock market their jobs you know elevated they got more opportunities because they got to work from home everything was going well in their life and then the folks who didn't have money to invest during co who were working many of those essential jobs like we have to really really call out the privilege here they they gutted it out they put their lives on the line and were no better off for it.

In fact, many were worse off for it because they had long-term medical illnesses, conditions that, you know, long co they ended up in positions where they felt like their careers had stagnated even though they had put so much on the line. We were, you know, banging pots and pans for them at 8:00 p.m. or whatever. And then America rolled over one night and said, "We don't care anymore." And so there was this huge divergence of people, the halves and the have nots. And it got greater.

And I think what I'm saying is right now I think our middle class is shrinking and it will be a K-shaped divergence. More people will go into that category of kings and more people will go into that category of really suffering really suffering really suffering financials. Let's talk financials. But also from an emotional perspective of there will be people who figure it out. people who are able to find financial stability and security and they are going to have a much happier life than they would had they stayed at B+.

But then there's also a group of people who aren't going to be able to figure it out either because they choose not to, they don't have access to the resources, which I think is really the shame here, but their life is going to get meaningfully worse. And you are going to see people continuously over the course of the next couple decades wake up one day in their 40s or 50s after you know a lot of their working years and look at themselves in the mirror and be like what happened what happened what happened and have nothing to show for no savings no investments just kind of what happened what happened what happened like I ran on that treadmill for 20 years and I have not moved you weren't running on a track you're running on a treadmill.

Oh man, that's painful. When you look back and you see decades of your life, so painful so painful so painful and you haven't improved. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, that is painful. What do you think is the difference then between the two people who are watching or listening right now who are financially struggling? Let's say they're at zero or they're in debt, negative. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're in their 20s or they're in their 30s and they're both at a a similar standpoint around financial freedom. They don't have it and they're struggling.

struggling. struggling. Yeah. What is the difference between the one person who goes out from this moment and over the next 5 to seven years creates a surplus of financial abundance for their lives and the one that stays stuck and suffers over and over again for the next 5 to seven years. What is the difference between those two types of people? One who goes and creates financial freedom and the other who doesn't where they both have the same starting point. one of them makes a plan. plan.

plan. And I think it's really that simple because the person who doesn't make a plan is going to one weekend be so motivated they're going to try and like crash diet their finance like financial life and they are going to try and change a thousand things at once. They're going to get confused. They're going to get overwhelmed and then they're going to put it back on the shelf and they're not going to look at it for another 12 months. Then they're going to be 12 months further behind.

The person who actually makes the plan realizes that the changes that are needed are so vast, they cannot be accomplished in one weekend. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, they're going to say, "Okay, I have all these things that I need to fix about my life right now. I can only do two of them this weekend." So, maybe they only do one of them, frankly, because they do the one and they get overwhelmed, but they say, "All right, the second one is on my calendar for next Friday afternoon after I'm wrapped with work.

I'm going to just spend an extra 30 minutes at my desk. I'm gonna figure this out. They're going to do that one little thing. They're going to have this plan. And this plan is actually going to change because we are not even comparing the person who doesn't make a plan and the plan that the other person makes today. We're comparing this person who's made a plan and in three months time realizes their plan was off course and they're going to recalculating and then three months later it's going to be the GPS going recalculating and then 3 months later it's going to be recalculating and all of a sudden each of these little milestones of financial security and stability.

Maybe they get a really really solid savings base. Maybe they picked up a side hustle and said I'm only going to do this for 6 months but I am just going to break my back for 6 months. I am going to get an emergency fund. fund. fund. Great. They get the emergency fund. 3 months from now, they're like, "Oh, well, now that I have the emergency fund, fund, fund, I don't need this job anymore, right? right? right? I can go get the right job, not the right now job." And they level up their career.

Okay, now that they've leveled up their career, they're like, "Wait, my company's actually going to match my 401k cuz my last my last company didn't do that. Now suddenly they're getting free money coming in the door. Now they're going to, oh well, now that I'm really starting to prepare for retirement, like I can actually be in a position to have a conversation about marrying this person that I'm so in love with. They're starting to look at rings. Now they're looking, okay, well, now that I have some retirement savings, I'm investing in those.

I have a career I like, I've built this emergency fund, let's start talking about a family. And it's each of these iterations. It is not the plan you make today that changes your life. It's the plan that you make every single time you change the plan. And that iteration, this person who didn't make a plan is going to look in 10 years and this trajectory is going to look unfathomable because it is. You can't just It's kind of like when um they tell these like rock climbers like you can't just climb up the sheer cliff face.

You have to kind of zigzag back and forth. You have to like get to a little stopping point. That is exactly what we're doing here. Mhm. You cannot just go straight up unless there's some sort of elevator that can take you there. And that is called generational wealth. And if you don't have it, you're kind of so at this point because you're either born with it or you're not. Unless you have an elevator, you are going to have to zigg and zag. But everybody else looking out and zooming out from that picture is just going to see a straight line up.

Yeah. For me, I feel like 15, 17 years ago when I was broke on my sister's couch, I didn't understand money and I was afraid of it. Yeah, talked about this. We talked about this on my podcast and it was really scary to me. It was really daunting and I felt like it was a language that I didn't even comprehend. I barely understood it. I understood the basic words and that was about it. But I couldn't speak with anyone who was fluent fluent fluent about money.

about money. about money. Yeah. And it has taken and I'm still 15 17 years later I guess I'm fluent in some ways but now being married and having children there's new levels of financial literacy that I'm still not educated in that I still have to continue to invest and learn and and figure out new game plans at this level for my future based on where my life is at now. It's different from 1015 years ago ago ago and I'm constantly learning. Do you even recognize that guy from 10?

Gosh, it is so unrecognizable. I'm so grateful that I had a plan cuz you're saying that and I'm thinking about myself back then. I'm like, okay, I have lots of friends that were broke just like me. Just like me at 24, 25, like 25, like 25, like what are we doing? Which, by the way, that's normal. Yeah, of course it's normal. Like, what 22-year-old, 24-y old has money? Unless your parents gave it to you, you don't have it. And I wasn't educated on it. I didn't go to class that taught me about money or financial literacy.

So I felt very insecure, very and just very dumb around money. around money. around money. And I started just seeking mentors, just people that knew a little bit more than me and started learning from them. I started reading books. I started, you know, I will teach you to be rich. Reme I started, okay, let me automate this process instead of paying the bills myself monthly. Let me like one step at a time, one month, one year at a time. And then I could look back and see how far I'd grown and what I'd accomplished.

and the inner peace that I gained from learning a little bit. And every year I feel like I'm constantly leveling up my game plan around money and it gives me more peace and freedom internally which hopefully continues to give me more external peace and freedom financially. Before we started this episode, you showed me a beautiful picture of your daughters. They look like little jelly beans. They're so small and cute and adorable. adorable. adorable. Imagine the man you will be when they are in high school. Oh gosh, I'm g be rocking and rolling right now because I'm I'm just like I feel like I'm so much farther ahead before they were born.

born. born. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I was in the NICU, one of my daughters was in the NICU for a few days. days. days. And I was in the NICU and there was probably an an 18 or 19year-old couple in there who just had like a child as well. And I was talking to this guy, you know, just a young, he was either high school or maybe just out of high school. And I was talking to him. I was like, "Congrats, Dad." "Congrats, Dad." "Congrats, Dad." and their daughter was really premature.

And I was just looking at he was he was in what are those shoes that the younger generation wears? They're not are they Crocs? Crocs? Crocs? Yeah, they're Yeah, they're Yeah, they're Crocs. Yeah. I'm like he's wearing he's wearing Crocs with like bedazzled, right? And looks like my nephew looks like my nephew, right? Like just out of high school. And I'm like, you're like my nephew right now who's just out of high school who has no clue what's happening in life. Like the nicest kid but doesn't know anything about money.

Nope. Doesn't know how to take care of himself. Really doesn't know how to like he's just figuring out life like I was at 20, 22. And I'm like, "This kid is having a child right now." And and he seemed like so excited to be a dad. He's like, "I'm going to do everything I can for my baby girl." But this kid didn't have any financial literacy. He was coming from a few hours away in a smaller town in California. And I could tell he didn't come from a lot of money.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He didn't have a lot of money. And he was a child. Mhm. And I was like, if I had a kid at 18, 19, I would be screwed in terms of like I wouldn't have been able to set my kids up up up in the way that you want now. The way that I want to now, in the way that I could now and can now, hopefully if I stay healthy and things go well, I have more literacy around finances. I have a better emotional relationship with money.

And I feel like I have set my life up in place to be more organized with a game plan like you said to structure my life for the next 20, 30, 50 years to have financial peace. Maybe I'm not going to be this billionaire or something, but I'm going to be financially free as long as I don't do anything stupid or mess something up or who knows, whatever. But I have a game plan. I think we should also have a conversation around like how having the billion dollars should not be your end goal.

goal. goal. No. No. No. By the way, it's not my dream. It's not. If it happens, cool. Can I I feel like I cannot state this enough, but like having a lot of money does not make you rich. Actually, you can have a lot of money and be incredibly poor. Because Because Because if one, you can't bring anything else to the table, you are incredibly poor person. But two, if you don't know what is enough, Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. you'll never get there. Yes. You'll never be satisfied.

And if you can never be satisfied, you're forever going to be the poorest man on earth. Yeah. You're not rich. you're not living a rich. a rich. a rich. And there's one thing to be said for like, okay, I want to continue to grow and contribute and and bring value to myself and others and I'm doing it for the game of like building a number or something or building a business. But if you don't feel enough and you have to keep making more money to fulfill something, you're a poor person.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like you've got some wound inside of you. of you. of you. Exactly. That is We talked about these money wounds. Exactly. So, I was looking at a video actually recently of I'm getting fed like baby content like all my social media feed. media feed. media feed. They know you just had a like you talk you say babies and it's just like that's all you see. And um I was just watching a video of a dad putting his face up to like his child and they were like both smiling and laughing and he just put I'm a rich man.

And I get the chills thinking about that because it's like it's like it's like gosh he is a rich man. He's got this like beautiful connection with his child and who knows if he has money or not, but in that moment he felt like the richest man in the world. And I think there's a lot of wealthy people that don't have good relationships with their family, with their friends, with their teams, whatever it might be. And I've seen kind of some some wiser men who are, you know, decades older than me talk about the the definition of success for them who are wealthier in their 60s,7s and 80s is having great relationships with their adult kids.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're like that is wealth. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That is success at this stage. Not having more money. Nope. Nope. Nope. You can't take the money with you. No. You want two working hips and two working knees and you know kids that call you when they need something. That's it. That is wealth. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And health. That's amazing. So the game plan then plan then plan then how does someone What are the first three steps someone should take if they're financially poor in this moment to set themselves up by the end of 2026 they feel like they have a lot more peace.

Yeah. peace. Yeah. peace. Yeah. Because of the actions they they've taken with this three-step game plan over the next year. What would that be for you? I would actually say one, figure out a goal that right now maybe seems a little delusional, but a goal that you want to get to. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. This goal has to be smart. So, it's specific, measurable, actionable, realistic, and time bound. Uhhuh. Uhhuh. Uhhuh. So, I think it's really, really important that we set our goals not in a, "Oh, I want to have $10 million by the end of the year." It's like, okay, no, no, no.

10,000 might be a better goal. goal. goal. Like I wantousand I want to have this much money from doing this by this time for this reason. Give it make sure it's clear. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Having that Having that Having that clarity of the goal. That is step number one because you always have to have a target. target. target. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. You can't just shoot in the dark, right? You have to have a target. Two, I would sit down and list out your strengths and weaknesses that will actually help you get to and hold you back from that goal.

So, it's like, oh, your strength is that you are actually really, really good at saving money. You don't like to spend money, but your weakness is that you are absolutely terrified to part with cash from your bank account. You hold everything in a checking account. You want to see it at all times. value. It's losing value. You got to own this investing. this investing. this investing. So, write down all your strengths and weaknesses that might help you or hurt you from getting to that goal. And the third, you already mentioned this a little earlier.

Get a mentor. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. My mentor at JP Morgan changed my life. Really, Really, Really, when I started working there, she was my manager and she was my intern sponsor the prior summer. But I looked around and it was 40 white guys in suits. Yeah. Yeah. And they all came from one of two backgrounds. Either they were likely from very very affluent families where Uncle Roger also worked on Wall Street and was like a wink wink nudge nudge got, you know, whoever on the desk or they went to an Ivy League institution, played football, lacrosse, you know, basketball, whatever.

They were all athletes from these really, really elite universities because Wall Street loves to recruit athletes. um it helps with like a team morale and you know workplace environment. I looked around and I'm like well I don't have a rich Uncle Roger. I did not play a colleate sport and I'm not a man. So just to state the obvious, I was like who the hell am I going to relate to? There was one woman. She also happened to be an Asian woman and she and she and she was everything I wanted to be.

She walked into work, click clacked her heels like Gucci stilettos on the marble floor, flung a new Chanel bag on the desk every single day. Wow. Wow. Wow. I went to her apartment and it was the first person I'd ever seen own an like own real estate in New York City. And I knew she was really rich cuz she could afford a dog. She had a dog in New York City. You got dog sitters and dog walkers and all that. all that. all that. Her dog ate like human grade food and like Yeah.

It was like crazy. $500 a month in food for the dog. I was like, and I looked to her for everything. Whether it was, hey, I don't even know what health insurance I want or what to invest in. invest in. invest in. Or even frankly, I would call her and be like, I really like this boy. He still hasn't texted me back. and she would be like, "Have some selfrespect." And she gave me so much financial wisdom. And I talk about her all the time, but like what I think people don't realize is like how much of an impact she actually had on my life, not just my finances.

Like we're friends. Wow. And I went to her apartment one weekend and she was cleaning out her closet and closet and closet and she was just, you know, putting stuff in certain bags to give away. And she g I will never forget this. She gifted me a pair of YSL heels, unworn. They were a little too big or I can't remember if they were a little too big or a little too small. Thousand heels or something. Yeah, they were like thousand heels. They were black leather, gold toe.

I so you still have them today. I do, by the way. They're And I was like so shell shocked that she would give these to me because she could easily have sold them for $700, $600 on some secondary website. Too much time. She's like, "Here, it's not the time." Cuz she had other clothes going into bags that were going out to sell. She was going to she was going to like, you know, send to a service that would sell them for her and they would take a cut and whatever.

But I asked her, I was like, "Why are you giving these to me?" And she said, "I think every young woman needs a pair of heels that helps her stand a little taller, taller, taller, and makes her feel just like a little bit bigger, bit bigger, bit bigger, a little bit better, and she was the big sister I always wanted." wanted." wanted." That's cool. That's cool. That's cool. And she guided me in so many ways, helped me avoid pitfalls. She is the reason I didn't adopt a dog when I was 22 because she was like, "This takes so much time." She was like, "Don't do it.

Don't do it. So much time." She told me, she was like, "You're it's going to ruin your social life. You will not have time. You will be picking up poop." And I was like, "Really? You got one." She's like, "Don't do what I did. Listen to what I'm saying." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I avoided a lot of potholes because of her. And so, make a goal. Know your strengths and weaknesses and find a mentor who can help guide you there. there. there. That's beautiful. What is the greatest lesson your mentor taught you about money and the greatest lesson that she didn't teach you but you observed in her?

her? her? You know, I think it really comes down to to to how she treated people. So, she comes from like a pretty workingclass family background. like parents were in a restaurant and I would see how she treated staff and she was so kind, always, you know, huge tipper, what have you, like would hand the bartender a 20 before she ordered and that wouldn't even be the tip. That was just to get his attention. And she was so kind to people who and frankly to people who like didn't have really much to offer her.

And I think that taught me that like that's cool. that's cool. that's cool. No one is ever beneath you. You are never above anybody. But two, seeing how kind she was to all of these people. We went to one restaurant one time and the food was very bad and she told the staff, she was like, "This shrimp tastes like it's been soaked in something because it wasn't fresh and this is not edible." And they were like, "We're so sorry. Like, we can do this." And she's like, "I don't want anything.

I don't want it comped. I don't want anything. I'm happy to pay for it. I want you to know." And I was like, "Are you sure we don't want this comped, by the way?" Like, "I would like to get something comped." Free dessert, anything. [clears throat] Um, Um, Um, you know, I was broke. I, you know, I would take anything free whenever I could. could. could. But I saw how she lived her life with a certain set of principles that she wasn't going to bend. and it made me live my life with a certain set of principles that I was never ever going to bend to bend to bend and it's made me a better person.

If you didn't have her as a mentor or a mentor in general, where do you think you would be personally in your life and financially? Personally, financially? Personally, financially? Personally, I mean, I don't even know because she's part of the reason why I stuck it out on Wall Street for those first couple years because I was like, it's tough here. tough here. tough here. But she's going to look out for me. And when she was no longer my manager, I left. left. left. That's what ended up happening.

And I certainly wouldn't have been in a position to get the media job I got had I left earlier. And she was actually the person who got me that job cuz it was through her network, her connection. financially I would certainly be worse off. really off. really off. really guarantee you because she taught me so many things that she made mistakes on that I didn't have to eat like I didn't have to eat [ __ ] for three years you didn't make those mistakes I didn't have to eat [ __ ] because she already tasted it and she knew it was bad bad bad and she was like don't do this don't do that oh by the way when you are thinking of finally and and this is you know years and years later this is actually very recently when I bought my place in New York City I was like who's your mortgage guy mortgage guy mortgage guy we talked to her mortgage Wow.

Who probably got you a better deal or we got the better deal through him. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Interesting. So, I know for a fact I would be financially worse off, but I think personally like she really changed the trajectory of my life. And I mean my mom told her that at my wedding, which is crazy. Wow. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of your parents, did I read that you used to do like translating for your parents when you were younger with like money conversations and like negotiations?

Hi, this is Amy, too. Definitely not her daughter. Um, can I talk to the claims adjuster? Yeah. Wow. Wow. Wow. Cuz even as a teeny tiny pipsqueak child with my child voice, I spoke native English. And my parents even to this day speak English that is very clearly, you know, riddled with an accent. Yeah. And I have seen my parents, I don't want to get emotional about this, but I've seen them face so much adversity adversity adversity or be written off because of what they sound like on the phone or what they may look like.

Mhm. And And And they came to this country with a dream and they gave up all of their hopes to be able to funnel all of their ambition into me. And so And so And so you're only child. I'm an only child. No pressure. No pressure. No pressure. Um your girls are lucky in that way. Um, but like I feel like I saw saw saw how often they were scoffed at or taken advantage of and it made me sick because I was born here. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm not here to survive. I have a sense of entitlement and I don't think that's a bad thing. I am entitled to a good life. I am a strong believer that good only good things happen to girls like me. M. me. M. me. M. And I say that boldly and proudly every single morning in the mirror. I'm like, "Bad things like this don't happen to girls like me." And people are always like laughing on my teens. They're like, "That's like literally a delusional thing to say because that's why you are where you are." But it but you're delusional.

you're delusional. you're delusional. I am a little delusional. And that's why you are where you are. Cuz you believe it. I truly do believe it. But I believe that I am entitled to thrive in this country looking the way. Let's freaking go, Vivian. I am entitled to thrive in this country looking the way I look, however I sound. in a way that my parents never felt that they were entitled to. And maybe in part they were truly discriminated against, whatever. But I think a lot of it was also self, you know, a self-fulfilling prophecy prophecy prophecy in that because my parents were like, "Oh, well, my English is not good.

I'm not going to ask for a raise, even if my mom was the star chemist at her pharmaceutical lab." Or my dad was like, "Oh, I should just be happy to have a job. I don't want to rock the boat." Not rocking the boat is a big immigrant thing. you don't want to make waves, waves, waves, but like my dad was also incredibly hardworking and very talented. And so I took their two hearts worth of ambition and jammed it into everything I do now. So I am of the mindset that everything I do needs to be compensated.

My time is incredibly valuable and if you are not with the program, you can can can Yeah, I'm not with you. I'm not with you. you. you. Yeah. Yeah. We don't have to work together and that's okay. I think I have been given this confidence because of many of the sacrifices they made. Did your parents give you this confidence or did you see I guess I don't want to call it their lack of confidence or their insecurity around being immigrants here where you said I need to go claim this now because I was born here.

born here. born here. I think it was a side effect of having to grow up really fast. Like I was a latch key kid probably much sooner than it is legal. I'm old now, so please don't arrest my parents. But like, But like, But like, I was a lashki kid far sooner than, you know, I was supposed to be because my parents couldn't afford childare and also both had to work. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was the one reading over my mom and dad's resumes when they would apply for jobs.

jobs. jobs. Wow. How old were you during this time? Young. Like late elementary, early middle. middle. middle. Wow. I would I remember reading over my mom's reports like her mid-year review and end of year reviews on herself and rewriting them. rewriting them. rewriting them. Wow. Wow. Wow. And I feel very lucky. Both of my parents are incredibly smart. I have been given many talents and and gifts when it comes to learning. I learn very quickly. I was always at the top of my class. You know, graduated high school valadictorian, the University of Chicago, graduated with honors.

I was always more academically mature. So, I was able to help my mom get away with some stuff. some stuff. some stuff. And these days, she doesn't even need my help. I mean, they're both retired now, but like as they got more comfortable and they saw my writing, they would start to be able to copy and paste here and there, but like and there, here and there, but like I had to grow up really quickly. Like, I was coming home to do my homework very like swiftly.

We would eat dinner and then my mom would be like, "Can you help me with something?" And I remember the first couple times I would I did it so begrudgingly because I was like this is like extra homework. Other kids don't have to do this. And I was right. But other kids didn't have parents who would make that kind of sacrifice and leave the country and the language and everything that they know to hopefully give you a better future. So So So Wow. How many languages do you speak?

So I speak Shanghai fluently. What is that? So, okay, basically my family is from Shanghai, and Chinese is largely broken down into Mandarin and Cantonese. Cantonese. Cantonese. It is a dialect of Mandarin, but it is so vastly different from Mandarin that I do not fully understand and speak Mandarin at a fluent level. Wow. You can understand some of it, but I can I can and my understanding is better than my speaking Mandarin, but like at home, we speak Shanghai. Wow. And it's a dying language unfortunately because they're no longer teaching it in uh Shanghai like schools because they want everybody to have one uniform language.

uniform language. uniform language. Mandarin versus Chinese is just like Mandarin. Like they want everybody to speak Mandarin. Wow. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So who speaks it now? Like when I went back to Shanghai at in 2019, only people over the age of like 50. 50. 50. Really? Yeah. Really? Yeah. Really? Yeah. So you can't really I could talk to all of the aunties and uncles. uncles. uncles. But the young people would be like, "We don't know yourself." Really? Really? Really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, you're like an outsider there.

No, not quite. Because all of the like senior citizens are like, they love you. They're all so pleasantly surprised that someone who like looks like me and is very clearly American can speak Shanghai this way. this way. this way. That's cool. That's cool. That's cool. But I had an easier time asking like, you know, this old uncle like I was like, "Is the food good at this restaurant?" Mhm. restaurant?" Mhm. restaurant?" Mhm. And he's like, "The food is the food." I'm like, "Damn, why are you in such a bad mood?" And his wife laughed that I could say that in Shanghai.

And she actually answered and, you know, we we had a nice little chat. He's just like a kagginly old man, but like to even be able to have that interaction like is strange because strange because strange because the older generation, they typically largely speak Shanghai only. Wow. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. You mentioned this kind of entitlement mindset, right? You're like, I feel what is what do you say in the morning when you wake up? You say only good things happen to girls like me.

me. me. Uhhuh. Uhhuh. Uhhuh. And you mentioned also like and I love this about you and I really want people to understand what's underneath this because I truly believe the difference between you setting a a goal and a plan for yourself and actually accomplishing it is your mindset and your belief that you are capable of accomplishing it and you are entitled to accomplish it. Not just because you were born here, but because you're willing to do the work and take the actions to go through the growing pains to make that accomplishment happen.

And there's a belief underneath it where a lot of people might say, "Okay, I have this game plan," but they don't believe that they that luck comes to them. They don't believe they're worthy and deserving of having financial peace or creating more growth in their life. They don't believe it fully. And by you saying it over and over to yourself every morning or every time you're in a team meeting that what is it? What is it saying again? it? What is it saying again? Good things happen to girls like me.

Only good things happen to girls like me. me. me. Only good things happen to girls like me. Right? It's like you saying that over and over again. Maybe you didn't believe it in the beginning but you started to really train yourself and then find evidence of look good things. I was right. Good things happened to me today and then the next day. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's just a reaffirming mindset. And I think a lot of people don't have that mindset. Can I tell you something I said to my mom that like literally shook her to her core.

Tell me. Tell me. Tell me. There was one exam. I think this was like seventh grade and it was biology. We were all It was like bio class now. And it was a very very hard test and I ended up getting a very bad grade on it. And I went home and I showed my mom. My mom was obviously disappointed. She was like annoyed with me. She's like, "Why didn't you study harder?" D. And she asked me a question. I don't know what compelled her to ask me this.

She goes, "Well, did it ever occur to you when you were taking this test that you didn't know the answers, when you didn't know the answers, like to just like cheat off of someone else?" someone else?" someone else?" And I looked her straight in the eye and I said, "Well, why would I cheat off of someone else? They're not smarter than me." me." me." And she was like, "Where did this confidence come from?" But I think it's this belief that like not that I'm actually smarter than other people, but like I've outworked everybody I feel in my life.

Like people don't want it as much, but I do. I remember there were like when I first started creating social media content, there were other people who had larger followings, more, you know, locked in communities. They were making content and so many of them have stopped. Why? Because content takes time to make. It does. Ideation is a slog. You were on a hamster wheel. hamster wheel. hamster wheel. But I feel like I have a higher pain tolerance than other people. I'm willing to work harder. I'm willing to work for longer for harder and I will put in the elbow grease if I know it's going to pay off and I deeply believe that it does because everything in my life has shown me that the harder I work the better outcome I get.

Yes. Yes. Yes. And because I proved it to myself, I keep believing it. Keep doing it too. Keep believing it and you keep acting on it. I love that. What would you say is the one financial habit that separates the lower or middle class from the upper class? Buying liabilities versus assets. To put it simply, I feel like the lower middle class buys stuff. They buy stuff that loses value over time or costs them money and they do it to look rich. Mhm. But the really wealthy people, they will buy a fugly duplex in some no-name town and then they will flip it.

They will make it nice. They'll rent it out. Now they have an income generating thing. thing. thing. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. They're not buying stuff. This isn't the Gucci sweater. This is something that makes you money. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And rich people love to use this strategy. It's called buy, borrow, or die. die. die. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. So they buy these assets. Do you like this strategy? this strategy? this strategy? Do I like it? I think it's smart. Do I think it's ethical? No. But I also don't think it is on them to not use this strategy.

I think it is on our legislators to make certain loopholes certain loopholes certain loopholes less easy to exploit. Ah Ah Ah because I feel like whatever system currently exists, everyone should be using it to the best of their ability to get what they want out of life. Yes, Yes, Yes, that is the only thing I can say. So what is this strategy that the wealthy do different then? So it's called buy bar die. So regular people they buy stuff and they buy if they're lucky 75 years of stuff and then they're like ah stuff.

Cool. You still like that stuff? Probably not. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Rich people they go buy that shitty duplex I told you about. It's ugly. And they buy, you know, something not that exciting. Maybe a full portfolio of index funds. nothing nothing that they can show on their Instagram, okay? But they buy these assets. And what people don't realize is that the folks at the bottom, they work really, really hard to buy stuff, but before they can buy that stuff, the government takes a huge cut because that is income.

That is earned income. So, you know, if you're in the top tax bracket, that's like 30ome% 30ome% 30ome% effective net effective. And then you probably have to pay state and local income taxes, too. average person even so you're still probably giving up about a third of it. Then you go buy your stuff. Rich people, they know that they are going to buy these assets. All right? And this is with money that they did have to pay that tax on, but they want to stop paying that tax as soon as possible.

So what they do is they then build this asset portfolio that is monstrous and then they borrow against it because guess what? Even if they sold some of their equities or their stocks, the max tax they would ever have to pay on it is 20. So, you're already doing better than the third. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. But they're not even going to sell it. They are going to borrow against it because guess what? Debt is not counted as income. You don't get taxed on debt you take out.

They use that debt and then they live their life. They get to do their fun things and they oftentimes get interestonly loans. So, they're very small payments that you actually have to make back. You just keep the loan outstanding. outstanding. outstanding. They have more and more assets. Their assets continue to grow in value. The bank continues to lend them at a a very very low interest rate because they're so rich and then the dying part very key. Okay, they have when you die, what happens when you die?

This is why we talk about this in my book Wellendowed. The estate plan is so so key because what they do is they have this trust. Okay. So, this trust holds all the assets and then that trust passes those things, those amazing money-making things down to the next generation generation generation taxfree. taxfree. taxfree. Here's how it works. It is inherited at something called a stepped up basis. Okay? So, if you are my dad, okay, you buy something for $10, it appreciates, appreciates to $1,000. you give it to me during your lifetime and I sell it.

The gain on that sale is $990 and I have to pay taxes on that $990. But if you if I give it to you when I die, die, die, if you are already dead and then you inherit it and then I get it, the asset gets remarked to market. What's that mean? So the cost that I bought it at is a thousand. So it's not the 10 that you actually bought it at. My purchase price is a thousand. So if I buy it at a,000 because I inherited it from you at 1,000 and then I immediately sell it.

What is the gain on that? Nothing. It looks like I made no money. Wow. Wow. Wow. I don't pay taxes on it. I pay off my papa's estate debt. Debt. Debt. Debt. It got it all gets done. And then I have this money. I have these assets that make money and I'm going to borrow against them cuz I am your very very rich daughter and I've learned these things because the generational wealth is the generational knowledge. Say that again. The generational wealth is the generational knowledge.

generational knowledge. generational knowledge. Wow. What is I mean? So that's all about building a trust then that and assets that are in that trust and then borrowing against it and never selling your assets. your assets. your assets. Why would I sell my assets? I can take a loan, loan, loan, right? right? right? I love loans. I love debt. Rich people love debt. It's crazy. But I think isn't there something around debt that scares a lot of people too that they have to and what if what if there is a crash and you have to actually pay off all that debt at one point and you don't have the money then what there's a fear around this anxiety of like I've got all this debt and these payments.

Can I pay them off? That's why there's diversification because I'm not just holding an equities portfolio. I've got maybe some crypto in there. I've got maybe a real estate portfolio in there. I've got collectible art. I've got all of this other stuff in there. And these markets are more often than not indirectly correlated. When there is a market crash, often times you'll see certain things of tangible value go up. So things like gold, cryptocurrency is considered more like, you know, decentralized. So that actually performs better when the market's not doing as well.

Um collectibles of like rare art, jewelry, cards. Exactly. Those all do well when the market is down. So when one is down, the other is up. When other's up, the other's down. But your portfolio over time continues to bloom. And you're not buying stuff, you're buying assets. buying assets. buying assets. Assets. Assets. Assets. Wow. Wow. Wow. Stuff and assets are very different. Stuff is the baseline model like you know, classic original recipe Birkin bag. Okay. bag. Okay. bag. Okay. So many people have them. You can literally find stores with four dozen of them in Japan on the secondary market.

Yeah. Not special. What is an asset? Something that's special. An asset is the Tiffany blue like I can't even remember if it was the Paddock Phippe or the, you know, Otmar Pigette like watch. I'm not a watch person. I'm not fancy enough to know all this. But like they made like eight of them. them. them. There's only eight of them in the world. You're going to tell me those are going to go down in value, right? You're going to tell me that's not the holy grail for every big watch collector on earth.

Yeah. So, you got married what, two years ago or last year? We got married a little over a year ago. A little over a year ago. Um, what are what are a few things that you learned about money after getting married that you wish you knew before? Specifically, I would say about the wedding process is it's way more expensive than you think. It's way more expensive than you think. I went I was like nearly 3x my budget. Oh, yeah. It was I was like, "What the hell?" And it's, you know, I don't know if you've watched Legally Blonde, Legally Blonde, Legally Blonde, the movie.

the movie. the movie. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, was like 20 years ago, right? Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. So, there's this scene where the Reese Witherspoon. Reese Witherspoon. Reese Witherspoon. Reese Witherspoon is defending this, you know, Pilate or like she's like a workout instructor in court and she was like, I need an alibi. What were you doing that day? And she's like, I was getting lipo section, right? And she's like, lipo section. And I feel like that when I talk about wedding budgeting because I feel like such a fraud fraud fraud because I tell everyone like, "Oh, set a budget." I set a budget and I went past it.

I blew past it twice. And I think the frustration is is that like we realize that money is so much more emotional than we even gave it credit for. Like my [clears throat] husband and I have never fought about money money money because we have had an open line of communication about our finances so very early on. early on. early on. I lived in a roachinfested apartment. And I had to tell him how much I was making because I had to move out. I had to break my lease.

I didn't have any money. Long story short, we talked about money probably 30 days into dating each other. Like from first date to 30 days in, I told him everything. That's great. That's great. That's great. We've never ever thought about money. Wow. But during the wedding planning process and agreeing to stuff, there were some tense moments, I will say, because say, because say, because I think for him, our wedding was like a climax moment to maybe show the world what he had accomplished. And for me, I don't know if I needed that, but I think there's a lot more ways for women to flex than there are men.

Sure. Sure. Sure. So, like, if you actually think about it, right? Like women, we can buy shoes, we can buy bags, we can buy clothes, we can, you know, do our hair nice, we can do our makeup, we can What is like something that men flex with? Maybe a car, a watch, something like that, right? I guess if you bought a house, maybe. house, maybe. house, maybe. You know what he tells me? He's like, "Well, I bought you a really big ring, and when I bring you around and people see how big your ring is, that is a flex for me." for me." for me." It's true.

Yeah. [clears throat] So, I think for him, there are so few moments in his life where he gets to celebrate. celebrate. celebrate. And so, he wanted some big things. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Private fireworks. You got to pay a guy to go off on a little boat and like shoot stuff. Like, that's very expensive. Like, this man is risking his life and it is very expensive per minute that the fireworks are going off. They charge you by the minute. Yeah. They he wanted, you know, the the upper level food and the like 10erson band and the amazing quartet orchestra while he was walking with his mom down the aisle.

He wanted all these things. And at a certain point, I was like, "You are so wasteful. I can't believe you want this. Like, why? Why? Why? Why?" And it wasn't until I realized that like he had never been able to celebrate all of his accomplishments in the way that I had that I finally realized it wasn't about the money. It wasn't about the wedding. It was about being able to say that like I'm in a position in my life that I never thought possible. I want to celebrate with somebody who I've committed my entire life to.

Right? Right? Right? And in part, we want to make sure that it's a memorable experience for all of the people we're asking to come halfway across the world to Italy to. Sure. Sure. Sure. And in it wasn't until he explained it to me like that that I was like, "Okay, well now I feel bad. Now I feel like the dirt bag." Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. So I think it's, you know, something that I give advice to everybody and I say this in my book. When you are talking to your partner, one of the first conversations needs to be at money.

Yes. money. Yes. money. Yes. Date one. Yes. Date one Date one Date one to know who you're getting into a relationship with. relationship with. relationship with. Correct. Correct. Correct. And we talked about this before, but do you think every couple that is going to get married should get a um gosh, a prenup? Yeah. prenup? Yeah. prenup? Yeah. You think every couple should get a prenup? Why should women want a prenup and men want a prenup when getting married? married? married? Because and I will give you the same answer and it has not changed and in fact I feel even strongly more strongly about it because now I have one.

Do you trust the government? Yes or no? No. Not fully. No. Right. Right. Right. I mean, maybe there's some things that are good. There other things I don't. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't care if you're left. I don't care if you're right. I don't care if you're center. You don't agree with everything our government does. True. True. True. Why would you let the government dictate how you and your partner go through the most challenging experience you will likely face together and then separate you two? Why?

Mhm. All a prenup is is not you saying I don't trust my partner. It's saying I don't trust the government. I want to sit down with my boo on a sunny day on a day when we still really like each other. We are madly in love and talk about how will we make sure that we are kind and fair to each other in the worst case scenario. Gosh. But most women don't like thinking about divorce. They don't want to go into a conversation saying, "Why are we going to talk about divorce?

I don't want to get divorced to you. I don't want to think about getting into a car wreck. Do you still have car insurance?" insurance?" insurance?" 100%. 100%. 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But talking to a a woman who's emotionally not thinking about getting a divorce, the emotions come out sometimes. sometimes. sometimes. But I think there are things that people aren't realizing. Being in a relationship is so much more expensive for a woman than a man because more often than not, if you're the one having the child, Yeah.

can't work for a while. You can't work for a while. And that's not just the amount of time off or whatever that you lose out on that income. It's that what that income could have compounded over the course of your lifetime. And there are things like, oh well, you know, if I spend a decade of my life my life my life being the household CEO, I prefer that versus like a stay-at-home mom because you really are the CEO of the house. You are the chef, the chauffeur.

You are the maid. you are the person who is the project manager, you are doing teacher, you're doing it all. You really are doing it all. But if you're doing all of that unpaid labor, which by the way, the unpaid labor accounted for in a global society is in the trillions, we just don't really factor it in because most of the time it's done by women and we don't value their time the same as we do men's. And so I would say having a prenup where you have already agreed that you will get a mom salary so that you can have your own money.

So even if you are a stay-at-home parent, you still have your own money because 99% of domestic violence cases include financial abuse. financial abuse. financial abuse. Interesting. Interesting. Interesting. It's important you have a you have your own money that is in your bank account. Nobody else's name is on it. Maybe you want to ensure that you will have spousal support because you are giving up your career to perhaps move across the country to help support this person and their business. You want to make sure that your children are taken care of.

You want to make sure that regardless of what happens, neither party should be left, you know, destitute and neither party should be left a robber baron, right? Like you are trying to come to an agreement that's fair. fair. fair. Yes. Yes. Yes. And that's really all it is. It's you want to be fair to your partner. Do you like your partner? Cuz if you like your partner, you're not trying to screw them over. them over. them over. And that's why we have this conversation and we do this process when you still like each other.

I think it's so important. Me and my wife Martha went through that. And [clears throat] [clears throat] [clears throat] I I think I fell in love with her way more once we went through the whole process. process. process. One, you know, we were very open about everything, but it forces you to fully share every share every share every You have to get financially naked. every bank's you know that you have anywhere you have money or any assets and there were a few things that we just forgot to share with each other.

It's not like we were hiding from each other but it's like we really had to document everything. It gave me more financial clarity. I was like oh I'm actually organizing my stuff cuz I have stuff everywhere. It helped me. It helped her. And then when we were able to look at things together I was like wow you've actually made a lot of money. I was like that's pretty good. You know I was like I was impressed. And in particular for your wife who is a huge success, has a you know huge business, has multiple streams of income, taking on the role of a household CEO even just to like make herself uncomfortable for 9 months.

Let's be honest, like pregnancy, you're vomiting in the morning. You are twice the size that you normally are. Like she wasn't comfortable for 9 months. months. months. Yeah. And I think that like we have to acknowledge the value and the cost of that that that 100%. 100%. 100%. Because that is a huge contribution to your family. your family. your family. 100%. My legacy, my love, everything. Everything. And it's and it's not just nine months and then you're back to normal. normal. normal. No, No, No, it's going to take months for her to recover and heal and all these different things.

I mean, what people forget child birth is also like a surgical procedure. surgical procedure. surgical procedure. It was It was scary. Yeah, it was scary. I mean, I mean, I mean, did you pass out? No, I was pretty good. That was pretty. I was in the zone. I was like athlete mode. mode. mode. Okay, I'm gonna ask her and see and get her opinion the next time I see her. It might be different. I think she'll say I was I mean I was It's crazy. I haven't talked about it yet, but it was I mean she went to the ER twice within the last month after giving birth.

giving birth. giving birth. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it was scary. I mean it was like life or death scary. and she's now in a much better place and really recovering, but she still needs months of recovery course where she's not able to go do normal working things, but it's a lot of women to be a mom. Yeah. And I think it's like a two-year journey. I'm I'm not saying you can't work leading into pregnancy and being pregnant. You can still work, but it takes a lot more toll on your body, on your emotions, on your mindset.

And I think we just have to be more aware of that. Um, with women, it's a lot. Yeah. lot. Yeah. lot. Yeah. Physically, emotionally, it is a lot. It's a lot on the guys, too. I mean, I've been in the hospital for the whole month trying to support her. It's like I'm away from work, too. But it's like it's even more so on her. So, the thing that I that I'm interested in is generational wealth that we're talking about. When someone who is broke hears this word generational wealth, it seems so far away.

It seems so unrealistic. It seems like that's not for me. How could I even think that way? If someone's broke or struggling financially and they have the possibility in the future to create generational wealth, what do they need to start changing around in their mindset and their daily habits in order to set themselves up for that in the future? future? future? Yeah, I think there can be a big woe is me attitude of if you're not born into generational wealth or something, you're like so resentful.

But the thing that bothers me is that like people want Everybody wants to have generational wealth, but we hate seeing it in use. Why is that? We're jealous of people. We're jealous. It's jealousy. It's just It's It's It's We want it, but we hate people that have it. it. it. Exactly. But we want it ourselves. But it's hard to get something that you hate in someone else. Correct. Correct. Correct. Right. Right. Right. Correct. Correct. Correct. If you hate someone else having it, but you want it, it's hard for you to attract that.

attract that. attract that. Yes. But I think we need to reframe this around like you may not have been born with generational wealth, but to have generational wealth, you might be the generation who has to make it. Yes. Yes. Yes. And I say this and I joke and I'm like, yeah, unfortunately I'm the one in the family tree who has to be the one who like really plants the seeds. Yes. Yes. Yes. And I may not actually ever get to taste the fruit. the fruit. the fruit.

Gosh. But you're the one who started it. You're set up your family tree for generational wealth. Someone's got to be the one to break the chain. it like there is always unfortunately someone who has to be the one who makes the money money money because you can't just have inheritance inheritance inheritance at some point up the tree the tree the tree someone did it someone someone someone they came from nothing to something they went on the skinny branches they risked they did they put their life on the line their career on the line they went broke multiple times to create that freedom for themselves correct correct correct and they were willing to endure the pain like you've been willing to do they've worked harder They got knowledge.

They found a mentor. They maybe got a couple lucky breaks and they went hard on that luck. Yeah. And you know what else? This is the craziest thing. You know, most generational wealth actually doesn't last past three generations. Why? Cuz the knowledge doesn't pass. So basically, it's like you've got the generation that makes the money, right? They work hard. Something perhaps it's the next generation that saw their parents work really, really hard. So then they actually expand on the business. They're doing a really great job, but they've always lived a decently comfortable life.

comfortable life. comfortable life. Yeah. They didn't struggle like they're they didn't struggle. And then the third generation, they see nothing but privilege. They have never struggled. They also haven't had the knowledge of the struggle passed down. So like you have to do this, you have to do that, like watch out for this pitfall. Like they've always lived life on easy street. And if you live life on easy street, it's very easy to get swindled. Interesting. So it's that the third generation typically is where things kind of fall apart.

So how do grandparents who create the generational wealth in the first place pass down the knowledge for the third, fourth, fifth generation to sustain it and grow it? Well, one I think it's passing down that knowledge, making financial literacy an important part of your family. Like I have every intention of giving my kids an allowance and then taxing it. Be like, "Okay, your allowance is $10. Got to pay taxes this week.$2 Two $2 back, give it back. Wow. So, they feel the pain. They feel the pain.

You don't want to just give them eight. You want to give them 10 and then make them give you two back. That's interesting. And put two into a jar. And that jar is the public goods jar. And maybe once that jar gets to a certain point, the whole family gets to go out for ice cream. Wow. cream. Wow. cream. Wow. Or the whole family gets to go do movie night, but it's a public good jar. It's not just you. So, even if you're mad at your sister that day, we're going to get ice cream and she's getting one, too.

So, you have to understand how public goods work. M but also it is about making so that they are guard rails. So you give them enough rope to climb and I kind of like hate this metaphor but like you give them enough rope to climb but you don't give them enough to hang themselves. It is about making sure that they are getting money and knowledge but it's not enough to just say all right you're 18 here's your trust fund. No, No, No, cuz you know the trope, right?

All of these deadbeat kids who spend all day on their couch. They don't they know they don't have to work. They don't have to get a job. They don't have to make something of themselves. They have no ambitions because everything in their entire life has been handed to them on a silver platter. silver platter. silver platter. I would hate for my kids stand up like that. that. that. So, the thought is if you have a trust, if you have a living will, if you have all of these estate planning documents set up in the right way, you can be very, very specific.

Yes. And you can say at age 18 you will get x amount of money specifically earmarked to be used for your education whether that's trade school, culinary school, going to college, whatever you want to be. If you don't use that money on these specific purposes goes back in the pot or maybe it gets donated to charity. say, "My kid, I mean, I don't know if this would even be a realm of reality, but they turn into an amazing YouTuber at 17. They don't want to go to college." Fine.

If you're making a million bucks a year, I'm not going to force you to go to college. But like, But like, But like, if that money doesn't go to them based on exactly how I've outlined, they're not getting it. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Okay. But 21 rolls around, you're going to get a little bit of money. Yeah. maybe to help you with your first apartment apartment apartment or get you a car. Not a Maserati, but like but like but like a Volvo, something, a Honda Civic, a Toyota Camry.

Um, and get them something practical, but that's not like some lemon that you got that has 150,000 miles on it cuz I don't want my kid driving around in a death trap. And so you can death in a death trap. And so you can earmark these things and it's like okay maybe when you turn 30 we will give you a little bit more or you will get a certain amount upon which you get married but there needs to be a prenuptual agreement in place. You can literally dictate how you want your money to be used because damn if I'm not going to have a say I'm the one who made it.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm the generation who had to make it. Absolutely. You're not going to lose it. They're not you're not going to lose my money. And if you end up being a loser deadbeat, I'm gonna have something called a skip generation. And all that money is just going to your kids. And if you don't have kids, it's going to a charity. Wow. Wow. Wow. And a lot of really, really smart business people actually have this in place. in that I think there was this Japanese company where the grandfather who' you know built the company had a skiple level generation where all of the money went to the grandkids but all of the ownership in the business went to the parents.

parents. parents. Interesting. So both the parents were incentivized to work hard but the kids were also forced to learn the business of you know the company and it's like there's there's really creative ways that you can do this. That's beautiful That's beautiful That's beautiful to make sure and that's all through the trust that you build right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And there's so many different types and I really encourage people to like talk to an estate planning attorney to see what actually makes sense for them. Absolutely.

You talk a lot about all these strategies in your book wellendowed. Make sure you guys get a copy of this. One of them is about uh navigating life's biggest financial decisions around marriage, kids, home ownership, all these things we're talking about right now. What do you think uh couples do wrong when they try to combine their finances? What's a mistake they make when they do that? that? that? Well, they're doing it at engagement. Uh hello, what what happened to the dating period? Like there's some there's a stat out there and I can't quote the exact number but I want to say it's like 48% of couples don't actually talk about money until they're engaged.

What What What should be the first month? Should be the first Frankly I say it's the first date. First date. You can ask a question that's like oh hey if you had a if you got a million dollars tomorrow what would you do? That's not a show me your W2. That's very much like a fun first date question. It doesn't feel out of the norm. It doesn't feel like, you know, kind of a pressury thing. It's just a fun exercise to see what this person is like.

like. like. Yes. Yes. Yes. But you get to start talking about money early early early and you know what it means to that person. person. person. Are they opening up their own bakery because they've always had a passion for baking baking baking or are they going to go buy a duplex apartment because they really want to start making passive income? Do they, you know, do they like tell me what they do? And so I think when couples wait too late, you end up marrying people who you are not financially compatible with.

People who do not value a dollar the same way you do. And that ends up becoming a big problem. And I think in part why there are so many irreconcilable differences in some couples. In the same way that like politics or religion or do you want to have kids, yes or no, those are kind of dealreaker questions. I think how you think about money and how your relationship with money is is a dealbreaker question. dealbreaker question. dealbreaker question. Do you think couples can last if they love each other, but they don't have the same values around money?

around money? around money? Lewis, do you think love is enough? No, No, No, I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't either. I don't because guess what? Sure, you can last through the honeymoon period. Sure, you might be able to last the first 5 years, but if I have the great love story that I'm hoping to have, it is going to be like 70 years. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. I got married at 30. If we if we get to 100, that's 70 years. You're going to tell me that love is going to carry us for 70 years.

Are you like, are you are you joking? No. No. No. Are you crazy? Like, I truly believe that you have to work out a relationship to want it. Yeah, the grass is greener where you where you water it. water it. water it. And I treat my relationship like a business. My business, the business that I pour all of my energy and my time and my love and my adoration into, I give my relationship the same kind of care. And I know that doesn't sound romantic, but I build smart systems.

I keep the right people on staff. I take time to really evaluate. I do a quarterly business review, but also quarterly financial review with my partner. M like I treat my relationship like a business and if we took it as serious as we do making a business fewer people would get divorced. Yeah. How many people do you think I don't know if there's a stat around this but how many people do you think die every year around money stress or money problems or money issues? I mean, I wish I had the stat because it would be really, really powerful, but financial anxiety is one of the worst and most pervasive things because it doesn't turn off.

off. off. So, like, say you have anxiety in your relationship, when you go to, you know, see your boys, you don't you don't think about, you know, the old ball and chain for, for, for, right? You get a little break from You get a little break. But if you have problems with your money, you feel it at home, you feel it at the grocery store, you feel it at work, you feel it when you go to do anything fun cuz you're not sure if you can afford it.

It is constant. It's like suffocating you always. And it's on your phone. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Imagine not being able to escape. It's on your phone. And in terms of like look what everyone else has and I don't have and I can't afford it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like takes over your nervous system. system. system. Correct. You're on fight or flight all the time. Wow. You could be lonely and depressed by not having a relationship or have other challenges or not have a career. But if you don't have your money, if you don't have harmony around it or some type of healthy relationship around money, it really suffocates you.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It holds you back in a big way. And again, I go back to the beginning this conversation where you were just like, "What? Good things happen to girls like me or something like that." Like I think you have to really shift your mindset around it. Even if you don't see the evidence yet evidence yet evidence yet that good things are happening to you. Maybe they haven't happened to you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But at some point you have to shift and start thinking and speaking in a different way about yourself so you can start seeing the evidence in real life.

Even with small little acts that are happening to reinforce, look, good things do happen to me. I just found a penny. Good things happen to me. Someone just smiled at me. Good things happen to me. Whatever it is, we've got to reinforce it. It's why I really hate it when people are [clears throat] like, "Oh, I'm I'm bad with money." You're not. You're not. You're not. You're on your money journey. You're starting your money journey. Doesn't that feel like so much more empowering? [clears throat] Like you are taking the first step in the right direction versus like, yeah, you're bad and that'll be that forever.

forever. forever. Like, I don't want to hear that. No, I'm learning. I'm learning. I'm developing. I'm developing. I'm developing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just getting started. I'm excited about the journey. I'm still excited about learning Spanish. Spanish. Spanish. I'm not bad at Spanish. I'm still learning. learning. learning. I'm still on my journey of learning Spanish. That's so funny. I love this, Vivian. Your your book is really powerful. It's called Wellend Endowed: The Secrets to Strategic Spending: Building a Financial Foundation for You and Your Family and Creating Lasting Generational Wealth.

Make sure you guys get a copy or two, grab some for your friend. If you're trying to understand money more and feel more financially at peace, uh this is the book to get started. You got a lot of great content on social media. And I love that you also said because I'm in like a next phase of my content journey. I've been doing it for 15 17 years of creating content. I mean, look at this beautiful office. 13 years of doing the podcast every week for 13 years.

And I'm in a whole new phase of like doubling down and creating content and really like leveling up with my own personal content as well. So, you inspire me that you say you're willing to work harder, ideulate stronger, and keep like grinding it out for longer. for longer. for longer. For longer, even when not everything is going viral. It's like you keep showing up, and I see that in your content on social media, and I dig that about you. I dig it about you. You're doing amazing.

I asked you these questions before in our previous episode, but I'm curious your perspective now, a couple years later. years later. years later. Uh, if this was if you got to live that 70-year relationship journey. But for whatever reason, it's the last day on earth for you many, many years away. And you got to accomplish all your dreams and all your goals personally, professionally, it all came true. But for whatever reason, all of your content had to go with you. All of your books had to go with you.

And we didn't have access to that content anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you could leave behind three lessons to the world. Three things. Three things you knew to be true personally, professionally, whatever it might be. What would those three truths be for you? you? you? Okay. Okay. Okay. First one, First one, First one, your partner is the most important financial decision you'll ever make. This is the person that you are going to literally navigate this world. It is hard enough as it is, you better pick someone who is your number one cheerleader and thinks the sun shines out of your butt.

Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Because if you have a hater at home, you won't accomplish anything. That's a raincloud at home. Snap. Um, two, I would say if you want to live in a village, you have to be a villager. villager. villager. Um, I think so many of us have f like the favors economy. We've given up on it. Um, in our parents' generation, uh, if I needed to go to the airport at 6:00 a.m., I'd be like, "Hello, neighbor Lewis. Will you drive me to the airport at 6 a.m.?" And we used to do it.

You would be annoyed because it'd be early, but you do it. And then I know I could count on you to watch my dog. dog. dog. Exactly. The next week when you were out of town, I would walk, you know, like Ranger and Ranger and I would go on a walk even though it meant that I might have to come home from work a little bit earlier. Fine. earlier. Fine. earlier. Fine. We would do each other these little favors. But now these favors have been replaced by companies.

And now you were spending an arm and a leg for things that that that our communities used to do for us. Interesting. Interesting. Interesting. We got, you know, the apps that you can on demand get taken somewhere. you have these apps that can on demand come walk your dog or bring you food or do these things and we don't have to care for each other in the way that we did. And when we don't foster that community, we don't we don't show up to the PTA bake sale.

We don't go to the housewarming, we don't bring over a bottle of wine on a Thursday night, like we lose the village because we are not being villagers. villagers. villagers. You just say you're a good villager. No, no, I'm terrible. I think we could all certainly afford to be better. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think I was a really good villager in college college college because I lived within a, you know, one mile, whatever it is. Yeah. One mile radius of every single one of my best friends.

I would show up for them. I would make time, but I also had so much more time. Yeah. Now you don't. And now I don't. And I am certainly as someone who is a high earnner have outsourced so many parts of my life in a way that sometimes I look and I'm like oh man it feels a little empty really. really. really. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Feels like lonely or empty or lack of community. community. community. A lack of community and I only feel it again and that warmth and that joy is like when I truly spend time with my girlfriends.

girlfriends. girlfriends. Really? Really? Really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Wow. Wow. It's really important to have that community. There are things that I can talk to them about that I can't like it's not that my husband doesn't understand. understand. understand. It's different. It's different. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's good to have of course. Um it's both hand. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. So, do you feel like you will actually reinvest in being a good villager? villager? villager? I'm trying. I'm trying. But when you're so busy and you got a lot of projects and you're creating and you're married and you got I think something that I did a really good job of is I just moved in Miami.

I'm in a new building and I'm so devastated because this new building is it's wonderful. Don't get me wrong. Yeah. You're looking at the ocean. You Yeah. Everything is amazing. But I'm devastated to be in this new building because the average age of the resident is younger than my last building. I would say the average age is probably 40, 40, maybe early 50s. And you're like younger? The last building I was in, the average age was like 70. Uhhuh. And it was so easy to build community, community, community, right?

right? right? I would go to Pilates the same time twice and somebody would be like, "What's your name?" Because these are people who came up in the favors economy. There was one time one lady handed me a bag and she was like, "I live in the south tower, but you live in the north tower. Can you go bring this banana bread to somebody?" I'm like, "I don't know this person, but yeah, I'll do it for you because you have now pressured me into doing this for you." Yeah.

And there was one time I was actually actually actually I had gotten off of the weight list for a like a workout class. All of these 70-year-old women are stronger than me, more physically fit than me. It's fine. Um Um Um I got a text and it was like, Vivian, you're running late for this workout class. Like, do you want me to save you a a match spot? Yeah. spot? Yeah. spot? Yeah. And I was like, what the am I late for this class? But two, it would like never occur to me to text someone that I don't really know that well.

These aren't like my best friends. These are like women that I had met in passing and had like, you know, good conversations with. And I was like, "Wow, she like really thought of me in that way." And she knew I was coming. Wow. Wow. Wow. Because I had come every Saturday prior to this to this to this and so I think I could certainly do a better job fostering community. There are certainly situations where community is easier to build cuz everybody is so community-minded. And I think I'm gonna be chasing that high for for quite some time.

time. time. Long time. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh and the third truth And the third truth is this. At the end of the day, nobody is coming to save you. you. you. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. I am going to sit here and be the first person to tell you it ain't fair. Life ain't fair. Some people are born on third base. Some people are out in the parking lot with the person who is selling those illegal hot dogs that does not have a vendor's license. Fine. But just because our current society is not perfect, just because it severely needs legislative change to make the financial system more fair, it does not mean that you can lose hope.

You still have to have hope. You still have to believe with every fiber of your being that you can improve your station in life. No matter where you start, you can end better. And here's a little tricky tricky thing. Um, I recently got the had the pleasure of interviewing Shawn White. Shawn White. Shawn White. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I took away from this interview that Shawn White is most possibly the pettiest man I've ever met in my life. Tell me why. Because Because Because he holds a grudge.

He does not ever forget his enemies. And when someone told him that he couldn't do something or like, you know, he had a a adversary at some competition, whatever, he would hold it in his head and he would use it as high octane fuel to give him hope [clears throat] and to power that hope with rocket power with rocket fuel to accomplish it, to prove them wrong, to be the best. And he jokes about it cuz he's like, "These people probably didn't even know we were beefing.

It was one-sided." one-sided." one-sided." Right. Right. I made it up in my head. But because he had something that was powering and firing his engine, he was able to keep going to do better for longer. And so that's cool. Don't lose hope and always have something that's fueling you. That's great. Uh your rich bff over on social media. Make sure to follow you. Get the book Wellendowed. You can get the book Well-endow at richbbook.com. richbbook.com. richbbook.com. richbffbook.com. richbffbook.com. richbffbook.com. Um Um Um I have one final question for you before I ask it, Vivian.

I want to acknowledge you because the last time I saw you was a couple years ago on my show. Then I came on your show for my book uh make money easy money easy money easy and I want to acknowledge you because of your energy I feel like has shifted each time I've seen you. You think You think You think I really believe it and there's something inside of you that's shifted. I you know not like you were horrible or something before but I see I see you elevating yourself and reinvesting in your health.

Mhm. And I think we mentioned this briefly that there's a lot of wealthy people in the world who are not healthy people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In their relationships or in their actual physical health. And I want to acknowledge you for setting a standard. You talked about the mentor that you had that if you didn't have her, you wouldn't be where you're at. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And there's a lot of specifically women in the world who follow you that you're their big sister, you're their mentor, and because you're willing to invest in your health, they're seeing that as well.

and they're probably making conscious decisions for their health also. also. also. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, you're not only helping people become wealthier with their money, but also wealthier with their health. And I think that's the most important health most important wealth in the world. So, I acknowledge you for being on that journey. journey. journey. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It's hard. You got a lot of things going on. You're doing books. You're working a company. You're doing all these different things. different things. different things.

And a lot of people make the excuse of, "I've got too much on my plate. I can't go to the gym in the morning or I can't do it at night or I don't have time." And I think that's the most important thing is to invest your time in your health and your relationships. So I acknowledge you for that. that. that. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Shout out to my trainer. There you go. Well, I say shout out to your trainer, but shout out to you for constantly showing up.

Your trainer can guide you and push you harder, but you have to show up for the workout. workout. workout. You have to make the time. You have to not make it uh excuses. And so I acknowledge you. Yes, the team supports you, but you got to make the decision every day to show up. So I acknowledge you for that. And shout out to the trainer. Um, final question, Vivian. What's your definition of greatness? of greatness? of greatness? You know, I feel like it's changed over the years.

And if I'm honest, I think I said that the last time you asked me this question, too. It evolves. You know, it continues to change. But I think greatness for me now is being able to get to a point where I can just do whatever I want. Mhm. Like it's all about getting to do stuff and not having to do stuff. Like I think for a very long time I felt like I had to do this. I had to do that because I wanted a certain amount of wealth, numerical wealth in my bank account.

And I'm not there. I'm not to my FU number yet. Let me be very, very clear. I'm not there. But I'm getting closer. closer. closer. Yeah. And the closer I get, the more I'm realizing I get to choose me and I get to choose how I show up every single day. And I think if I keep saying yes to stuff that drains my energy or drains me, I don't then get to show up my best for the things I'm actually looking forward to. And so greatness for me is eventually being able to have the full freedom financially and also in my time to live unencumbered.

Like I don't want money to be a decision like be part of my decision making process. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just want to be able to do it because I love it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. Vivian, thanks for being here. Appreciate you. Thanks for having me. Thank you. Well, in a culture where debt has become celebrated, I think we've lost a level of shame that we ought to have. Like back in our grandparents' days, it was not okay to owe people money. It was a goal to not owe people money.

Now there's Tik Toks about people going, "I'm $50 million in debt and I'm proud of it and you should be $15 million in debt,