Mike Posner: I Had Fame, Money, and Success… But I Was Still Empty!

Key Takeaway

Your emotional set point isn't fixed—it can be changed. Mike Posner went from depression to joy by facing his deepest fear: intimacy and relationships. The pain we feel isn't punishment; it's life calling us to grow. Start by asking: Do you want to live? Why? What do you want? These simple questions can redirect your entire trajectory from surviving to truly living.

Episode Overview

Grammy-nominated artist Mike Posner shares his journey from depression and isolation to joy and purpose. Despite external success—climbing Everest, walking across America, millions of dollars and followers—he was miserable inside. At a Tony Robbins event, he realized his depression stemmed from avoiding intimacy and relationships. This conversation explores changing your emotional set point, the difference between significance and love, the three stages of artistry (puppy love, disillusionment, service), and four powerful questions to redirect your life: Do you want to live? Why? What do you want? What would make life worth living?

Full Transcript

Transcript of Mike Posner: I Had Fame, Money, and Success… But I Was Still Empty! from The Ed Mylett Show. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

I was letting this part of my nature die underneath all these lies I was telling myself. And life told me in that moment, it gave me the message clear. Face the fear or we're going to give you louder warning signals. The pain's going to get worse until you wake up. So, I had a choice, a crossroads. It was like, I'm either going to change my emotional set point. I'm going to stop lying to myself, which I had these stories. I'm going to avoid in person. relationships are hard, you know, my relationships don't work out.

Give up all these stories rooted in the past, rooted in fear, and step into who I really am. 60 years old and people knock on the door, Mike, how you doing? I got a big fake smile on my face. I'm doing good, but inside I'm a I'm a lonely man. That's where my life was headed. My gosh, bro. or is face the fear and it's a whole bunch of expansion, growth, freedom, beauty, joy, faith, love, some pain also, right? There's pain on the journey, but way less suffering, right?

And so that was it. That was the turning point and I have not looked back. All right, welcome back to the show everybody. So, I was thinking about this guy this morning. I'm so excited. I got to talk with him. I've been waiting about six months to do it. I think he's the most interesting man in the world. You guys remember those Doseekis commercials where the guy's like the most interesting man in the world? I'm pretty sure this guy qualifies and I'm not exaggerating when I say that.

This is going to be such a compelling conversation today. Let me throw a few things at you. Grammy nominated. I took a pill in a beza. You all know that song. Cooler than me. Great song. That's just two of a whole bunch of them, right? But on top of that, the same guy who's done all that, he's climbed Mount Everest. He's done the 31 mile Continental Divide trail journey trek. He's hiked across America 2900 plus miles. He's been bitten by a rattlesnake on top of it and almost died.

And he's like got this very gentle, kind spirit about him. He's also gone through like a major life transition as well. But like, and this is all in 37 years, so I'm pretty sure he qualifies for the category. Mike Pner, finally, welcome to the show, brother. Great to have you. Hey, and good good to meet you and thanks for having me on. And you know, um, it's humbling to hear that introduction, introduction, introduction, but you know, all those things that I've done, they've been amazing, and I'm mostly proud of them.

Although I'm also keenly aware that some non-trivial part of the inspiration to do them was I was addicted to getting other people to like me and me and me and they're not my biggest accomplishment. The even all those add up together on the external. My biggest accomplishment is I went from somebody whose emotional home base, their set point, was depressed, was negative to somebody whose emotional set point now is joy, faith, and love. And not saying I don't dip down every once in a while, and sometimes I go even higher, you know, have moments of bliss and ecstasy.

But you can change your emotional set point. And that's my greatest achievement. greatest achievement. greatest achievement. And I hope um I hope that we can put other people on the path of doing the same thing because it's possible. If my if my depraved rear end could do it, then anybody can. I've had 850 shows. I think that's literally the best opening sentence of any guest out of 850. No disrespect. We usually ease into the good stuff. You're already getting off to a fast start here. here.

here. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. No, it's awesome, man. So, let me ask you. Let's just let's just start there. We're going to let this thing flow. By the way, I relate to that set point being kind of dep I don't know if I'd call mine depressed. I'd call it kind of melancholy. melancholy. melancholy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? I I relate to that very much and I think a lot of people do. So, is there some way you would say initially there was a catalyst to change that?

Did you hit a bottom of some type or and what did you do to begin the journey upwards? journey upwards? journey upwards? Yeah, man. Like I had accomplished all these things. I had walked across America. I climbed the tallest mountain in the world Everest. I had millions of dollars, millions of followers, everything that a perfect life was supposed to be on the outside. Even listen to this, I even had an Instagram account full of followers that I had convinced I was inspiring, right? I was already, you know, teaching, selling people to dream that I got it figured out.

And then I remember I was at my home in Michigan and and and it it just was like the ju the juice ain't here. ain't here. ain't here. I am and I remember this year I was eating clean. I was doing the ice bath. I wasn't actually my body looked beautiful but I kept getting sick and I kept getting depressed and I couldn't figure out why. Like what what is what is missing here? I got everything on the external including the supposed to be health right I'm doing all the right stuff and what is not working but something was not working and everything was irritating me I got this lakefront home I'd get out of the ice bath I'd look in the reflection on the sliding door and like if my abs didn't look just perfect I was upset with myself something's wrong I'd go in that sliding door and my mom was there cuz I knew what a good person was supposed to act like a good person that they're kind to their mother there.

So, I had invited my mom up to stay at the house for a week, but she was putting some dishes away and the sound of the dishes clanging against each other. It was like sandpaper grading against my my very being. Like everything irritated me. And then I remember I went downstairs and I I checked my phone and I had a message from uh one of my managers at the time and it was a screenshot and he goes, "I just need to know if this is true." And it was a screenshot of from Instagram and someone said uh a a singer who walked across America got my friend pregnant and abandoned the child.

And I said I knew I didn't abandon a child because I would never do that. But the way I was living my life, I wasn't sure that I hadn't had a child and maybe the person just never told me cuz I was being sloppy with my energy and I was afraid of intimacy. So I would get in weird relationships, one night stands on the road, things like this. And I I wasn't sure. I'm like, "Dude, do I have a kid out there?" And the stress of all these things start add on to one thing after another.

And I I I called my friend Doug and I go, "Hey man, like I need help. I I I either need like a the highlevel therapist cuz you know I have I have a freaking ego right at the time. Like I'm special. So I need like some special therapist who like knows about famous people or I need some highle life coach, you know, that gets it." So Doug, he goes, "Well, you could just talk to me." I said, "With all due respect, he's one of my best friends." I go, "You're about to have a child." And I got I got a lot of problems.

So, if I had just one, come on. I' I'd ask you for help. But these things are stacking. And before I would get over the one, another one was hitting. And and and I was overwhelmed. And I think a lot of people know that feeling like I'm just underwater with problems. Yes. problems. Yes. problems. Yes. And And And great description. great description. great description. And so he said, "Okay." And a few days passed and then he forward forwarded me a voice note. And the voice note was from Tony Robbins.

And Tony said, "Mike Doug shared a little bit with me about your story and I'd be honored if you came to my event, Date with Destiny, as my guest in December." And it it was like, you know, August. I was like, "What the hell do I do till then, you know? Right. But uh and I almost didn't go. I was like, man, that's kind of far. But that's my whole life was like just kind of negative. I'd look for the negative in it. So anyways, Doug said, "You got to go, man." So in December came around, I I went to the conference and I was a little skeptical at first.

I was sick again and I was like, "Dude, should I even like do this?" Listen, there came a moment. I think it was the third day of the conference and Tony's leading some some exercise. By the way, I love Tony. Changed my life. Love Tony. Love Tony. Love Tony. He he's leading some exercise and he didn't teach this. He was doing some kind of meditation thing like a visualization and he didn't say this in the in the activation, but it's like God just spoke to me in the moment.

It it just landed in my nervous system in a way I knew was true. It was like you are getting sick, you are getting depressed because you are avoiding the fact that you are scared to death of relationships. You're scared of intimacy. And until you address that and face that fear, life, hey, life, I'm only giving you pain to wake you up because I want you to go this way so you can have what you actually deserve, what you're actually here for. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You got to stop lying to yourself.

Because I had this whole story, you know, if if love happens, great, but I'm not really looking for it. The truth and I believed myself, but the truth underneath all that was I I I really wanted to have love. I really wanted to have a family. I was I'm here to have a family. You know, we we as men, we're here to provide. We're here to protect, right? It's part of our nature. And so, I was letting this part of my nature die underneath all these lies I was telling myself.

and life told me in that moment or you know I call it God I believe in God but for some people maybe they don't like that word the word doesn't matter you know whether you call it life with a capital L I think God and life are in many ways synonymous I think God life love maybe all one thing is above my pay grade but whatever it is it gave me the message clear face the fear or we're going to give you louder warnings signals. The pain's going to get worse until you wake up.

So, I had a choice, a crossroads. It was like, I'm either going to change my emotional set point. I'm going to stop lying to myself, which I had these stories. I'm an avoidant person. Relationships are hard. You know, my relationships don't work out. Give up all these stories rooted in the past, rooted in fear, and step into who I really am, which is a man, a leader. And it's one or the other. you're gonna go that way. And I knew where that was going to end.

If I if I kept going the way I was, I was going to be the dude with, you know, six-pack abs and millions of dollars at his mansion alone. Amen. Amen. Amen. 60 years old and people knocking on the door, Mike, how you doing? And I got a big fake smile on my face. I'm doing good, but inside I'm a I'm a lonely man. That's where my life was headed. My gosh, bro. and and or is face the fear and it's a whole bunch of expansion, growth, freedom, beauty, joy, faith, love, some pain also, right?

There's pain on the journey, but way less suffering, right? And so that was it. That was the turning point. And I have not looked back. It's been I think three plus years since that moment and I cured my own depression. Wow. I want to ask you that. That was Whoa. Here we go. So, I want to ask you about that. Um, first off, this story thing everybody is real. This story you tell yourself about yourself and your life, you're doing everything in your personal power you possibly can to quote Tony personal power um to confirm the story and make it true.

Amen. happens is you validate it over and over and over again to find more proof. That's your reticular activating system in your brain. It's scanning your environment to find more and more proof that what you're saying about you is true. That's why that old adage of if you believe it, it's true actually comes to fruition. But I want to go back a second. We'll talk about what you did to shift. But before we do it, I want to ask you something and maybe you haven't considered this, maybe you have, but I too relate to that.

I had a story one time. I was building my first like big home. Just great blessing. I'd had financial resources for the first time building this mansion. It's just a stressful day. I was mad at the contractor. We had just lost a business deal. And I'll never forget it. I walk in the living room of this house that's being built and I'm just furious, right? And if the quality of your life is the quality of your emotions, I was losing big time. And in the kitchen, building my kitchen were these about six men.

They had mariachi music playing. They were dancing. They were working. They were doing work they were great at, that they were proud of. And they were joyous and blissful and passionate. And I remember standing there like an idiot in the middle of this house under construction going, "They're winning in life and I'm losing." But on Instagram, I'm the dude with the mansion, but I'm the dude living in these emotions of stress, fear, anxiety, worry. These men live in bliss. And I remember going, you better change something right here.

And in my case, this is what I want to ask you about. I want to meet you in the middle here. I had to try to figure out why I was this way first. And maybe that's not relevant. Maybe you just decide to change. But in my case, I realized something about me since I was a little boy. And I think a lot of people do this. I confused significance or recognition with love. Meaning when I when I was a little boy, if I brought home an A or I hit a home run or I had big muscles when I got older, I got what felt like love.

It's like superficial love, acknowledgement. And so in my little brain, significance and recognition was love, except it's not. They're two totally different things. So I was great at significance, terrible at feeling loved or giving love. Do you relate to that at all? Let me share something with you guys, and I don't say this lightly. Since using Rose nutrition, liposomaal NAD+, no joke, I feel incredible. And I don't say that about all the supplements that I take. When you're running companies like I do, like many of you do, leading teams, making high stakes decisions every day.

You can't afford brain fog. You can't afford low drive. And you sure can't afford inconsistent energy. Your mind and your body are assets, and you got to protect them. And that's where NAD+ comes in. It's functional. It's foundational. And it's found in every single cell of your body. It supports cellular energy, brain function, recovery. And the reality is as we age those levels decline. I've tried all these different approaches including clinical ones. What I love about Rose Liposomal NAD Plus is it's simple, consistent, and it's designed to absorb actually help you.

It's third party tested and I take it every day without interrupting my life. The level of clean energy, focus, and sharpness I feel is on a totally different level. So go to rorownutrition.com rorownutrition.com rorownutrition.com and use code mylet for 20% off sitewide. Yeah, of course. I organized, you know, first two and a half, maybe three decades of my life around it. You know, why do you think us uh you know, artists become artists? You know, it's like we want that hit of significance from the audience.

We we we have often some psychological psychological psychological flaw that we haven't cleaned up yet. And we want to manipulate the audience to giving that fake love or the attention, that significance, so we don't have to look at that thing. And so that's unfortunately a large percentage of the artists we have. have. have. They they don't feel the love, the real love, and so they're trying to outsource it, crowdsource it, right? And I I'm not saying that with judgment because I did it for years and sometimes to be honest it'll try to rear its head to this day and I say hey you know I love you but you're not you don't get to drive the car anymore you know and so I talk about the three stages of artistry and their relationship with their fans and it probably applies to influencers podcasters things too but you know I come from the the music world so I say the first stage is puppy love.

You start to get some recognition and you go, "Wow, like this is incredible." And what could ever go wrong with this? Like I actually maybe I don't even need to have a wife or a girlfriend cuz I get all this love. Like I feel so filled up from these strangers who all see the essence of how great I am. And if you've done great work, that's true. they're only seeing your essence and not all your, you know, your your flaws. And so there's some there's something to that because you're presenting the the the jewel inside yourself in your art and a bunch of people are relating to that and you're getting this attention back and acknowledgement.

So that's stage one, puppy love. Stage two I call disillusionment because something happens where you go dude dude dude some of those people they don't like me they're not paying attention anymore there there could be a dip in popularity and just go wow this changes changes changes or some people flip and they they go from liking you to hating you or some people just come out of nowhere and they they're hating you. So this is man I thought I had this security from this this significance but now it's gone and that's painful that's why I call it disillusionment now a lot of people get stuck there and they get in this lovehate relationship with their audience but there's a third level a third stage in that service it's going okay once I actually address the thing that you just got clear on you addressed it.

Hey, this came from when I was a child. And you know, I'm going to stop I'm gonna stop living under that programming because it's just programming that I've that I've operated under for years. And we can change any habit. We can change any It's one of the things I love about Tony. You know, I don't have a disease. Depression was a disease I had. It's not something I had. It's something I did. Yeah. And so you get clear on in stage three, you get clear on, okay, what what are these flaws or these pain points that maybe come from childhood and sometimes and they even come from before childhood.

Sometimes they come from your mom's childhood. I mean, I know for sure there's some some stuff that I picked up from my mom and when I was in my early 20s, I was kind of like upset with her about it. But then when I learned more about her, I say, "You got it from your mama." And then I and then it probably, you know, went on from there. So sometimes it's not even us, but it's up to us to to to end the cycle. So you get clear on, okay, what are my pain points?

What are these old stories? What is the new ones I'm going to tell? And and where am I going to start real relationships with real love? And then I'm going to go back to my audience and I'm actually going to serve them. It's not about manipulating them anymore to get this hit of significance. It becomes about what can I give and it's it be can become one of the great joys of your life. And it doesn't replace a primary relationship or your family, but it's a place for you to pour love out and contribute.

contribute. contribute. So true, brother. By the way, I don't think I think you could replace artist with human. I think most humans are figure well if I get enough money or I get a bigger house or I got the right shoes or you know people look up to me I'm going to feel different about me. This thing you just said on significance I can tell you an inside thing it's interesting. Rob Deerick is a good friend. He's been on the show a couple times and we had this running thing because this is a topic once you have a breakthrough in your life that you really discuss with one another.

And so I remember telling him I go man I'm not into significance anymore recognition. He's like, "Me either." Like almost like we were above it, right? And uh so we went like 6 months bantering back and forth about how evolved we had both become, you know, and we're at a Rams game together and our wives were sitting in between us and I can't hear him. And he's like, "Hey, hey." And I'm, you know, I go, "What?" He goes, and finally I can't hear him. I go, "What do you say?" He goes, "I'm a liar." And I go, "What are you talking about?" He goes, "Let's go get a hot dog and I'll tell you." And we walk up.

He goes, "Bro, I still love significance and recognition." I go, "Good, dude. I'm so sick of lying about this. So do I. Right? But he said something what you just said. He said, "But I get it now by contributing." So I feel significant when I'm giving. That's the difference, bro. And so I think I get it in a healthy way now. That's it. That's it. That's it. And he goes, "And that contribution is because I love people." And so it's just a subtle loop that changes.

But this is like one of the more profound conversations we've had on the show because I think this is just humans. I don't think it's just singing. or just speaking on stage like I do. I think it's human nature to be this way. So, let me ask you, I mean, this is a broad question, but if someone was listening this going, "Bro, I'm with you." And I live kind of in a lower state of being a lot where I'm down or melancholy or worried or anxiety or all the way to depression like you've described.

And they said to me, "Hey, brother, like what what what what do I do? What do I do?" What would you say to that person? I would ask them four questions but they can answer the questions themselves you know so they I would ch challenge or invite that person to ask themselves these four questions the first comes from my buddy Chris War wrote the book Chris beat cancer it's an incredible book he cured himself of cancer without western medicine and he's helped thousands of others to to repeat this miracle this miracle this miracle And he credits his entire journey of healing healing healing back to I think he was getting a a massage or a Reiki or someone.

He went to get some body work done and the healer asked him this question. They go before we start this journey. I got to know do you want to live? Yes or no? And most of us have never really asked that question seriously to each to ourselves because you know these things build up. You talked about them earlier. These micro resentments. There's a little bit of feeling a lot of us have of hey you know I'll do this but I don't really want to. I'm here but I I should be doing something else.

And it's so it's so ubiquitous in a lot of our experience of life that it's just kind of running in the background. And a lot of us think that it's it's actually part of life. It's not part of life. It's an impediment of life. And so most people answer that question yes, but they realize like there's something sort of not as good as they they think it should be. And that that part I'll go on a small side tangent and I get back to question two.

that part of oneself that goes, that goes, that goes, "Hey, I I think I think my life is supposed to feel better than it does." Where does that come from? Because that's really interesting. A lot of us have this idea that life should feel better than it does. And and but better in a way that maybe we've never even experienced. So, how is the mind telling us about some experience that we don't know anything about? Right? Like, so I have a theory. I don't know if it's right, but I think it's right.

And I think it comes from beyond the mind. I think that feeling is is true. I think that's our soul. Or if you don't like that word, your higher self or like your deeper self going, "Hey, there's more for you here." And the pain you feel is actually the chasm between where you are and where on some level you know life should be not externally but the feeling the experience of life right it's like when you see those guys working on the house the pain isn't just that you felt anger that day because we all feel anger sometime the pain is something's recognizing recognizing recognizing there's a chasm here and and the amount the the further the wider the chasm, the more the pain.

So So So I think that part of ourselves is correct and it's a larger part of ourselves calling us to grow, calling us to become more. So that's that's the end of the tangent. Now what's the second question? question? question? The first question was, do you want to live? Yes or no? The second question is if yes, and most people say yes, why? Why? Why? And this question it comes from Victor Frankle and Chris asked it also but it's man's search for meaning you know and would n say he who has a why can endure almost any circumstance any how any condition can overcome anything and and and all of us have a purpose of being here but not all of us have uncovered it yet and by the way it changes your purpose when you're 15 is not the same as your purpose when you're 30 and it might change week to week and Victor Frankle talks about that in the book.

He goes stop measuring life and saying life isn't meeting my expectations and start asking what does life expect of me? Oh wow. Oh wow. Oh wow. What does life expect of me in this moment? And the purpose your purpose of life might not be some overarching thing some crazy. It might just be to hold that old lady's hand to to look at that child and it might be something very immediate. immediate. immediate. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so that's the second question. And the third question come my buddy uh my buddy Elliot Bis now.

So it comes with a story. Am I rambling too long? Not in the least. Okay. Okay. Okay. So the third question is came from Elliott. I was at a point another low point in my life. This low point came before the one before. There was a bunch of low points, right? So, and so um I had reached this point in my life where my father had just passed away. A couple of my my peers that I worked with in the music industry, Avichi and Mac Miller, they had just died.

And there was this feeling like exactly what I just referred to, like there there's something inside me that I'm not expressing. Like there's some difference between what I have to give and what I'm actually giving. And and it it doesn't feel good. It feels like I'm wasting life. And I got got got um just reel down, reel down. And I I I grew a big beard at the time. I just turned 30. And I remember I had a new album coming out and you know at at that it was about maybe seven eight years ago.

At that time you would still go to a lot of radio stations and you basically smoo you know shake these guys hand makes make you know pretend like you're their best friend. And so then they put your song on the radio and they can get like these 12year-olds addicted to your song and that's supposed to be success. And I'm just like telling Elliot, we were we were in Alaska on a camping trip and I'm like, "Dude, I'm done. Like, I don't I'm 30. I'm what am I doing?

I I don't want to play this game anymore. Like, I'm I'm through. I don't want to do it." And And And And when I say I'm done, I'm like, I was really there, Ed. Like, I had thoughts of like, I should kill myself. Whoa. Like Like I I There's something about how I'm showing up in the world that feels like it's taking away from the world, not adding to it. to it. to it. And so I I said to Elliot, I go, "Dude, I don't want to do this anymore.

I'm done." done." done." He looks at me, and by the way, I think friendship is seeing another's potential so clearly that they can see it themselves. themselves. themselves. So that's Elliot. He's incredible. and and my like depressing words just kind of like bounce off him as if he's got a forest field. And he looks at me and he goes goes goes cuz I just told him, "I don't want to do it. I don't want all this stuff." And he goes, "What do you want?" Yep. Yep.

I never I never asked that question. I'm sitting here bouncing around my life making lists and lists of what I don't want. And if any of your listeners like if your mind is like mine, by the way, you're not your mind, but if your mind is like mine, it creates lists of things that happened in the past you didn't want. It's got a list of things right now that are happening you don't want. And it even has a giant list of things that haven't happened yet, but if they did, you sure as heck wouldn't want those, too.

So, no wonder no wonder I was miserable. was miserable. was miserable. I sat there, I thought, what do I want? What a question. And I couldn't believe the words that came out of my mouth. They were, "I want to walk across America." Well, I almost couldn't believe I said it. it. it. Had you ever thought that before? Yeah. I had heard about a guy who had done it five years ago and I remember I thought that was that's pretty freaking cool, you know? And then I just threw on the back burner like it I thought maybe I'll do it one day.

But then I got back to business as usual. Make album going on tour. Make album going on tour. And then in that moment, he asked what I wanted and that was the answer. It came from beyond my mind. Like it just I almost heard the words come out of my mouth like as if someone else said it. I was surprised. And I and I reeled back cuz when I heard the words come out of my mouth, I went my mind came back in. I said to Elliot, I said, "But you know, I told my manager about this once, and he said it was a crazy idea." crazy idea." crazy idea." Elliot goes, "That's great news." I like Elliot.

I like him, too. I said, "What do you mean it's great news?" He goes, "That your manager said it's a crazy idea." I said, "What do you mean?" He goes, "You got to understand, man. Not all crazy ideas are great, but all great ideas are crazy. crazy. crazy. So good. So good. So good. And he goes, "So your manager thing is crazy is a great sign." He goes, "And I think you walking across America is a great idea." great idea." great idea." So I eventually did that walk and it changed my life.

It didn't cure me in my depression, but it gave me some some amazing tools amazing tools amazing tools and eventually put me on the path that got me to where I did. M. So that's question number three. And um And um And um I'm stealing that. Steal it because I steal from him all the time. the time. the time. By the way, I asked him. I go later, you know, cuz it was such a a deep moment. I said cuz he's he's one of my best friends.

So I go, "Dude, dude, did you make that up?" He goes, "What the not crazy idea line?" And he goes, "I don't know. Probably." know. Probably." know. Probably." He didn't even know. So maybe he got it from someplace else, but I I think he did. I think worthy of sharing to the world for sure. I think he channeled it. But uh the last question is is sort of just an expansion on that which is you know what really would make life worth living. So I would start there you know answer these four questions and and get a little momentum focusing on what I do want.

you know what I do want. By the way, it's best way to give someone feedback, right? Don't tell them all the things that they just did that piss you off. Ask them to do what you want them to do. to do. to do. Hey, hey, this this would really make a difference for me. It would light me up if you did X, Y, or Z. Works. So, life is rigged in a way where where we get what we focus on. So, life is rigged in such a way where when you focus on what's wrong, you notice more of what's wrong.

You get more of what's wrong. when you focus on what you want, right? And Jesus said, "Pray as if you've already received it, right? right? right? I think that's true." Right? We got all this new age stuff came out about law of attraction, right? And it's all true. But Jesus was talking about it 2,000 years ago. Pray as if you've already received it, received it, received it, right? Um it didn't come from the secret. And I love the secret, right? But this concept has been around for a long time and and it's true.

We get what we focus on. And so you got to get clear on what you want. You got to get clear on do you want to live? You got to get clear on what's your purpose? What's your why? Because without a why, dude, I don't care. You can have the craziest life. It'll turn to mush. It'll turn to drudgery if you don't know what that why is. is. is. You got to get clear on what you do want and what would make life really worth living.

living. living. This is a master class, brother. I didn't know we were going to go this deep. Come on. Thing I would add. I just want to keep rifting and I want you to be doing both the teaching here today. But you know, everybody, this is what we're really talking about is beginning to live your life with some intention. Auditing where you're at. Is this still my dream? Is this still what I want? Is this what I wanted when I was 15? But now I'm 30.

That's not what I want anymore. Right? It's okay to audit your life and audit and ask yourself these questions because that's a life that's lived with intention. That's a life when you get to the end of it, you go, "Okay, I gave it everything I had and and I maxed out my life." But one where you just live unconsciously with all of your patterns running all of the time, it's just like a book that's the same chapter on every the same page, same chapter. Every time you turn the page, it's the same experience.

So, if you want a different experience, you got to ask different questions. And one thing Tony does talk about that I do as well is the quality of your life is often the quality of your emotions, but a lot of times your emotions come from the questions you're asking yourself. asking yourself. asking yourself. Huge, huge. Huge, huge. Huge, huge. You said something really profound earlier that was like of a million profound things and I'll mess up how you said it. So explain. You said you're not your thoughts or you you're not always what's going on in your mind.

You said something like that. What did you mean by that? by that? by that? Yeah, absolutely. I mean this this machine in our brains that's just saying words, saying thoughts, it's not who you are. It's some very small part of your being as as as a soul. You know what it Shardan said? We're not human beings having a spiritual experience. We're spiritual beings having a human experience. So the mind, right, was evolved to keep us safe. It's a scanning device often for what's wrong. wrong. wrong.

Because Because Because you know our ancestors, if you believe in evolution, the ones that scanned for what was wrong, that noticed all this little sound or that over, they were paranoid. They survived because they noticed they noticed the the potential danger when it occurred. And so all of us have what's called a negativity bias built in. Meaning we tend to focus more on what's wrong because this mind thing is here to keep us alive. us alive. us alive. It's not here to make us happy. It's not designed to.

So if you live your whole life in your mind, mind, mind, you're not going to be fulfilled because your soul is way bigger than than the than the mind. And so I'm a big meditator. Um I also love, you know, as much as Tony equally in a different way, Echartol who teaches we're not our mind. Um, Um, Um, and I don't know about you, but we talked about earlier, you know, this thing is always saying what you don't want, but it's just always saying stuff all day long.

And some of the stuff it says is great. And some of the stuff it says is really stupid. And most of what it says is very repetitive. If you ever take a day, you know, a lot a lot of people I've had this blessed life with a lot of freedom. So, I've been able to do weird experiments. So, like I've gone to a a a retreat center for a total of two months of my life where they put you put you in a little cabin and they just leave you there and once a week they drop food off in the bear box.

So, you're take you're taken care of the woods already chopped. So you just sit there and you meditate and and when I watched my mind just sitting there for hours a day, seven hours, it's like, hey, this thing, it's often pretty negative. Not always, and it's super repetitive. Yes. Yes. Yes. You ever take a day, if you ever take a day, and I know not everyone has this luxury, but even if you take two hours and you just sit down down down with without your phone and you just observe the thoughts in your head.

Uh I forget who had the quote. All of humanity's problems stem from the fact that a man and a woman too is the olden days, right? Is that we cannot sit quietly alone in a room. So if you ever take just two hours and just watch the thoughts you have, you'll be amazed. First of all, you'll forget you're doing it almost immediately and you'll get carried away with your thoughts. But then after a while you notice it keeps thinking the same thing and it's like so our culture is almost is almost is almost a monument a monument a monument to rationality to the thinking mind.

Right? We we have for better or worse gotten away from the churches, the synagogues, the mosqu and we worship more the university, the scientist, right? And science is amazing, right? It makes all of our lives great and comfortable, but it's not going to make you fulfilled. So, you are not your mind. I'm not my mind. Ed is not his mind. We are the consciousness. I'm the consciousness that gets to move Mike Pner around. I'm not even Mike Pner, right? That's like I believe a costume that I'm wearing this go around.

go around. go around. And And And the more we can identify with the part of ourselves is actually beyond language, beyond words. You can just feel it and in moments of quiet and everyone's had these moments, Virginia Wolf called these moments of being, right? Everyone's had a moment where it just made sense. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The the mind actually stopped. It was it was pure. That's you. That's the real you, right? you, right? you, right? Tell you, can I just tell you this idea? I just want to say this to you.

I just want to acknowledge you just for a second. You you are making a difference. This is a real contribution. I just want you to know like legitimately like um this is extraordinary what you're sharing and um that's worth acknowledging in you like God's really using you Mike. I mean truly truly and um you know everyone what Michael was saying earlier about your brain and you know these repetitive thoughts your mind is always trying to move towards what it's most familiar with and so if it's familiar with these you know ruminations of what you're worried about and afraid of or not liking or not going well you're going to get more of it because your brain's designed to conserve energy.

It's lazy. And so that's why a life that's not evaluated is an unlived life. And so what we're really talking about here is just the gift of today because you are and you and I are both blessed. We could go somewhere for a week. Some people listen going, I got three kids I got to pick up from school. I got to do homework. I got to take them to soccer. I got to get back to work. But here's the thing. You have to give yourself those couple hours once a week somewhere to just sit with yourself.

Sit with God and just be you. Be with you. And if you can't do that, you have to ask yourself, why do I not enjoy my own company? Amen. Amen. Amen. Why do I need other people around me all the time? That's worth at least asking why. And then I think it's building your own recipe that causes change in you. So I want to ask you about this and maybe it's not one of the formulas, but as I read about you, and I've known about you obviously for a long time, but it's not normal resume, bro.

I mean, let's just be honest. I mean, I haven't climbed Mount Everest. I haven't walked across the country. I haven't done the Continental Divide. I almost haven't died of a rattlesnake bite. I don't have, you know, Grammy nominations. It's like I'm just a dude with a flag behind him doing a podcast, right? That's all I am. But like, so I don't relate to all of that. Having said all of that though, humans develop sort of recipes to their their wellness, their bliss. If you look at your life, it looks to me like challenging yourself to do something is one of those recipes.

It's like you it appears as if part of you living your life is a challenge that that then you go pursue and see if you can expand your being relative to the level of that challenges. I I always say I'm addicted to the expansion of my being, right? Is is Thank you. is part of your formula from time to time coming up with a challenge for yourself to see what you're capable of or is that something in the past? It's evolved. It's evolved but it's definitely part of it.

Right. and and life will give you these challenges anyways, right? So, it's like I like to put challenges in my life. So, I'm inviting in the grow. I like to set a goal sometimes where I go, hey, the version of me setting this goal cannot do this. I actually have to become some version of myself that I'm not now in order to get this done. So, I like a goal like that. Um, in the past they've been some physical challenges, some expeditions, things like that. But I'll be honest with you, Ed, um, because I I, you know, was a was an army of one for so many years.

The challenge now that, you know, and I have somebody, you know, I still run the alt and stuff right here and there, right? It's it's important for me to keep that sort of warrior part of life, but the number one challenge, right? I want to be humble right? I want to be humble today, right? Because it's like um I receive what you said. I know God when I'm at my best, God is working through me, right? And not all the time because sometimes my brain gets in the way.

But my challenge now is I'm building a family, family, family, you know? And some of the things that I'm teaching today, dude, like when I'm with my fiance, who's the most wonderful woman in the world, I sometimes get angry, right? I'm like, "Oh, where did that come from? Oh, that's the part I need to work on now." Right? That this is like this is life pointing me in the direction what I need to work on. And so for me, when I said it evolves, it's less about going and do something doing something really hard with my body.

Although that does that does do, you know, it's a certain flavor of the expansion. But having done a bunch of those, the one that's more challenging for me is is being less selfish, being in a family unit, putting others before myself doesn't come naturally to me because I've been I've been doing the Mike Pner thing for a lot of years, dude. Right. And so that's where the the juice of my life is now. It's the most challenging part of my life now because I need to grow the most to have the the family that I that I want that I will have.

Um, so there's some pain in that for me and I welcome it. And so the other things have been training and the other thing about about about there's been a lot of external achievements achievements achievements in my life and like I said part of that was by design. I wanted to become somebody I was proud of. Part of that was I wanted to, you know, get attention. I wanted to be able to go in the podcast have my like go, "Oh, he's the most interesting." Right?

So part of it was not good motive. your significance significance significance and part of that I think is grace. I think that listen I want to share light with the world and for some people they they'll listen to me versus someone else because I got all these things. these things. these things. That's right. That's right. That's right. And I got to report back, hey, I was still at that Michigan house depressed. I was still in Alaska with Elliott thinking maybe I should kill myself. And so maybe I think so God gave me all those blessings and then he gave me the pain with it so I could teach from a place not not from from having read it in a book but from having lived it.

Hey like I got the external stuff but I wasn't winning the internal game and you want to be there. So, let me help you win the internal game. And you can win the external game, too. There's a lot He has a lot of teachers on that, right? And you can have both. But, hey man, I agree with you. Like, I I listen, some of us have just chose our our giftedness, if we're great at it, grabs attention. My sister, I think, is the greatest school teacher.

She's actually an assistant principal now. Her gift is to work with children, right? She's she's expressing her gift and and pushing the expansion of her being daily. She's not going to get lots of recognition for that gift. She'll get it when she gets to heaven, right? And so many of you, your recognition won't be here. It's okay to go chase money. There's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with want have a a big house. That's okay. It's just what we're both telling you is, but nothing's worse than a couple rich people telling you it's not worth getting rich.

That's not right. It's it's certainly better probably to have financial means than not. Correct. Correct. Correct. If something's a goal of yours and you and God work together to make it real, that's that's wonderful. But when it becomes your identity, you will be empty. And so that's the the difference. I'm just curious. I'm watching you. watching you. watching you. Well said. Well said. Thank you. Well, you're an em you embody it. I said it. So, um there's a difference difference difference some days. some days. some days.

So, I want to ask you, if id have met you at 30, he's 37 when we're recording this. You have a certain uh and everyone's hearing it. There's a there's a spirit about you that's I'd call it wise like an old soul but very gentle. There's a there's a peaceful spirit about you. Had I met you seven years ago, would that same spirit have been present or have you sort of or has that changed in you? In other words, externally are you different also in the way that you communicate, you vibrate, you know, you go about your life?

Has there been a difference in that or did you always have a little of that? I I think there's a huge difference. I mean, I feel way different. Um my my frequency like we talked about my set point 30 was that 30 was like that conversation with Elliot that was like and that's part of what I want to share too with people like cuz maybe there's someone listening to this who's really in a tough moment. like really in a tough moment and maybe no one knows about it, but keep going because at 30 I had no idea it would be this good.

Not ex not the external stuff the I had no idea it could feel this good and you can't have a life without pain but you have a pain with a lot less suffering. So at 30 to answer your question I I I was go through a lot of pain. I think I was seeking a lot already. I was already in the meditation. I already read. I'd already spent a lot of time um seeking out answers because I I I was searching for them. I was just getting ready to walk across America.

Um so I think I could probably spit some spit some game at that point. But looking back, was was I really mastering that that the feeling part, the internal part yet? No, I hadn't I hadn't figured that out yet. And I haven't fully figured it out now, but I got it more figured out than them. I relate to that. Is part of that figuring it out. You talk about relationships earlier. I just have this feeling listening to you and I don't know this that I have to believe.

This is just my belief system and you can believe whatever you want everybody. I love all of you. But doing this alone without a knowing or a growing relationship with your version of God sure is hard. And for me, you know, I'm where I'm at in my life through God's grace. And I'm pretty bold about that fact. I love people that, you know, I love people. And so whatever your faith choice is, that's not what today's episode's about necessarily, but I'd be making a huge miss if I didn't ask you about that part of your life.

Um, has your relationship or understanding of God changed over this time as well? And is that a big is that the most important relationship you have or one of them? Yeah, it's the most important and it has changed. Um, I grew up uh in a Jewish household, but I was raised um what was called secular humanistic. Meaning, humanistic. Meaning, humanistic. Meaning, I went to Sunday school, but I wasn't taught anything about God. I asked my mom about this later. I said, "Why didn't why did you raise us like that?" She goes, "I I had a childhood where a lot of stuff was forced on me." And so we raised you that way, not because I don't believe it.

She believes in God, in God, in God, but we raised you that way because we wanted you to make a decision when you're an adult. So actually that makes a lot of sense. So So So then um the spiritual part of my life really started with uh my friend Big Sean. Sean. Sean. Big Sean. Yeah. Do you know Big Sean? Yeah, I do. I know who he is. Yes. So he and I, we met in Detroit when we were kids. kids. kids. So we're we're the same age.

So I knew him when I was 18. And then my music started to to take off. Then his took off and I saw him about we I think we're probably 23 24 and he was like glowing like like glowing and his the external part of his life was exploding as well. And I said to him, I'm like, "Dude, what what what do you what changed?" He goes, "You got to read two books. One was The Alchemist." Alchemist." Alchemist." Great book. Great book. Great book. And the second one was asking it is given.

It was a book all about the law of attraction. of attraction. of attraction. So I read these books and they start opening my eyes to have a spiritual part of my life. I would run. I would say well I used to be depressed. I would say I am joy. I would say I am faith. I am love. love. love. And it it taught me to reframe challenges when they came. But I learned to ask this new question. What am I supposed to learn from this? Inherent in that question, you know, assume the subtext is like there's something out there that is is like actually gifting me this experience.

Byron Katie says life life's not happening for you. Excuse me. Life's not happening to you. life's happening for you, right? you, right? you, right? Her book right there. And so And so And so that that was a big part of faith. And then it it's it evolved like even it's evolving. evolving. evolving. Excuse me. Last year in 2025, I had some excuse me, I had some wild experiences with with Jesus moving in my life, signs in my life. Um like just I don't want to go.

That's like, you know, crazy, excuse me, crazy stories, but just having wild signs where Jesus was moving in my life. And so, um, it's evolved so much and is evolving. Um, but it is the most important relationship. Louise Haye says, "My security does not come from my bank account, my spouse, or my parents. It comes from my ability to connect to all that is which I call God. Right? And um that's the only place I I'm always mess up this line from scripture. Jesus says, you know, don't store up your treasure where what rust and thieves can get them or something.

I don't know the exact way to say it. But what he means is everything on in on this earth, it changes. It goes away. You can't you can't place your security in another person. Even in my fiance, I love her. If she could give me that security, she would. But she's a human being, right? She can't be exactly what I needed to be at all time. And what kind of man would I be, right? But that's what I needed. So, you can only get that security from one place and and that's God.

And I think that's what we're all searching for. And it's a personal um relationship. And um I'm like you. I I love people. I'm here to just be a blessing. The more we can realize, you know, our life actually my life actually doesn't belong to me. to me. to me. That this higher power and and we talk about not being the mind. I think that's how you connect to it faster, right? you you identify with this part of you that's connected to it and you start to live a life that I'm stepping into more is scary for me and where you just you just listen to that thing as it guides you and sometimes it speaks to us in dreams sometimes speak to us in um through other human beings and sometimes it speaks to us through that still small voice inside us and that's the life that I'm interested and leading, not one that's like, "Hey, I read this.

This is the next step. Let me go do that." No, it's like I I feel like I'm on a on a magical journey and um and the breadcrumbs get left for me by by God. I I I just try to follow what it says and here we are. Bro, I'm sitting here emotional. I'm being this quiet because um I can't believe we've had this conversation today. And I I I first off I just remember this is you're afraid. Jesus holds you in the palm of his hand.

And so he's always with you. He'll never leave you nor forsake you. And so you don't have to have that fear. But I know exactly what you mean. I have it from time to time as well. It just makes me emotional to see this. The whole conversation I've done 800 and some odd 900 of these. None have flown by this quickly and none have I felt like I'm just in the beginning, not the end of this conversation. I truly mean that. And um I'm going to make you come back on here and do this again.

again. again. I would love it. Be my pleasure because bro, like uh you know, I'll just tell you that you're being used for good and um and you're remarkable. Just accept that, please. Thank you. And and I uh I also something's out right now that we need to talk about at the end because here's the good thing about this conversation. It's been so incredible. I I'm 100% sure everybody stayed to the end. That's how good this is. And I think everybody's with me saying please come back.

But what's up with I went back to Aiza. We need to know about this. So tell us. Yeah, it is incredible. So it it's such a blessing. you know, we talk about my life story, you know, today and I get to encapsulate a lot of these moments with music, you know. So, you want to know how I felt right at this moment at Elliot where I'm thinking to a real good kid. It's it's, you know, I made an album, a lot of these chapters of life.

And so, when I look back on these this body of work of music, it's pretty cool because it's all there. Um, but I I think it's 12 years ago now, I wrote a song called I took a pill in a beza and it was a very successful song and it was a heartbreaking song about how empty my life was having reached fame but kind of on the other side of it and the chorus was all I know are sad songs songs songs like maybe two years ago on my birthday because I wrote the song on my birthday 26th birthday I I wrote an Instagram post.

I said, you know, 10 years had gone by and this song, every lyric in it is now untrue in my life. Oh wow. Oh wow. Oh wow. So I went through each line. I said, you know what I was talking about in my life at that time when it was honest and vulnerable and it was real at the time. I go, all these things have transformed in 10 years. Like what a great what an amazing 10 years. Thank you. And And And I had a guy that works me on social media.

So he would the post went viral. So then he would like every six months he would change the post, repost it up, it'd go viral again. You know how they do that, right? And they keep telling me all this keeps going keeps being taking off. People keep resonating with the message. Finally, my fiance says to me, "Why you keep doing this post about how your life changed?" She goes, "Why don't you rewrite the song with new words about your life now?" So I said, "Hey, I'm supposed to come up with the song ideas, you know, you're creep creeping in on my territory." So I said, "This is a good idea." So I did.

So it came out, it just came out more beautiful than I could have imagined. So, um I'm I'm really excited to share that song with the world and uh people can go check it out. It's called I I went back to Aiza and uh it's about it's about transformation. Okay. You're coming back to the Ed Mylet show. I can tell you. Yes, I am. Yes. I can't wait to meet you in person, man. Yeah, brother. Same here. We need to do that. We'll do it soon, too.

So, everybody, I just sometimes already know what your response is, so I'm not going to add anything to today. This was extraordinary. and um put this one in a time capsule and uh I'm really grateful for you, bro. Really grateful. Grateful for you, too. God bless you. God bless you, man. Hey, everybody. This is This is why I do the show. It's why this old man is still doing this thing right now. It's days like today. This is why I do the show right here. God bless you everybody.

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