Michael B. Jordan on Being Loved Isn't Enough to Make It Work

Key Takeaway

Today, have one unapologetically honest conversation. Before it, write down: what you want, what you feel, and one respectful sentence that states it directly. Michael B. Jordan argues that avoiding clarity to manage someone else’s reaction creates frustration and stalled relationships. Say the true thing without blame, give the other person space to respond honestly, and accept that the outcome is usually less frightening than the anticipation.

Episode Overview

Michael B. Jordan reflects on growing up with strong family support despite financial hardship, moving through imposter syndrome, and accepting a larger purpose beyond personal success. With Jay Shetty, he explores building values-aligned teams, protecting authenticity amid public opinion, breaking generational cycles, and communicating honestly in every kind of relationship.

Full Transcript

Transcript of Michael B. Jordan on Being Loved Isn't Enough to Make It Work from On Purpose. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

You said that when you come from where I come from and not everyone has those opportunities, that luck, you start to question yourself, why am I successful in life? Why did I take this path and everyone else took that other one? And I just thought that was, you know, again, extremely humble and also representative of where you grew up, how you were raised, like, what path everyone took and where did that luck start for you? You know, I think growing up in upstate New Jersey, growing up in that environment, and, you know, when you're younger, you live life, you take it one day at a time.

You know, you're going to basketball practice; You go to school; Do you go to church; You know, for me it was making a lot of trips to New York City, going to auditions at a very, very young age and just figuring out what it was all about . Having parents who were quite aware, you know, and very present in my life as I was growing up. You know, it was rare among my family, among my group of friends, to have both parents there and very present, and also aware of my surroundings.

You know, they told me to be careful about certain things and to make good decisions, to be disciplined and to focus on the important things. You know, keeping up with school, all the positive things about growing up in an environment like that. And, you know, I take my hat off to my parents for sacrificing so much to make sure their children were safe, and growing up in an environment where it's not easy to make ends meet. You know , I grew up very poor, but it didn't feel that way, you know what I mean?

It was very, you know, I think they did a good job hiding those things. You know, I think as we get older , we look back and say, "Wow, we went through that." Oh, oh, that's why we slept in the kitchen that time with the oven open; or, " Oh, that was when we stayed at grandma's, you know, for a couple of weeks when you, you know, so you, you, you could have that reflection on how we grew up." And, and I think for me , you know, always having a purpose , you know, bigger, I think, or just, you know, that optimism, you know, I was a big dreamer when I was a kid.

And, and I think, you know, you start to not just focus on the work of all this, but because I worked from a very young age, that's what I can point to from, you know, getting auditions and this work and traveling to this place and experiencing these things and coming home with these experiences without having a lot of people I could relate to or, you know, share ideas with. And I think that, when you feel that way, you don't want to push those people away, you know?

Hey. Uh, and I think, and this is all, I suppose in retrospect, that you don't really share these stories. You know, maybe you should, because you don't want someone to feel inadequate or, you know, that they couldn't have that experience that you could have had . And I think, you know, that grows as you get older and go from one rung to another, as I continue to be successful at a young age, uh , you start to question, why am I being so successful? And the people who look just like me and who are by my side in these everyday things aren't necessarily doing that, they don't choose, you know, they just didn't have those options presented to them.

Uh, and I think that, uh, you start to doubt yourself for any reason or to feel guilty about things you may or may not have. Um, although you know my parents were service people, you know, uh, neighborhood parties or, you know, cooking dinners for church or, you know, always, you know, my house was the house that everyone came to at some point, whether we were going to order pizza that night or Dad was going to take everyone camping or go to these things; It was, that was my home within my neighborhood and my community.

And, uh, well, I think for me being a service person is something that comes from how I was raised and the examples I knew growing up. I always felt lucky too. As you become more successful and see fewer people who look like you succeeding in this field, you end up being the only guy who looks like me who succeeds, or one of the few you ever see in the audition room and things like that. You know, sometimes you start to wonder why, why you. Now I can, I feel that it was my path, my purpose and my spirituality, having grown up in a home very focused on the church, spirituality, meditation and being aware of the world we live in.

I felt that I was destined for something. Without knowing what it was, but something. Oh. Yes. And I mean, when I hear that, I love what you said. You said, "We were poor and we didn't even realize it ." But this idea of ... when I see you talking about your family, and for those who see us, they can see it in Mike's face. There is so much joy, bliss and... there is such happiness when you look back on that time. I can see that it was a positive experience because of how loved, cared for, and supported you felt, even though you may not have had the resources , access, or opportunities.

As I listened to you, I was wondering, are there any memories or experiences from your childhood that you feel define who you are today? Do you have any memories or stories in mind of something you experienced that you feel highlights that element of service or that sense of purpose? And I think this joy and appreciation for how I grew up comes with the perspective of time, you know, like the first time you have a moment where, I don't know, you pick up the phone one morning, call your mom and say, "Yes, thank you." "I understand".

"And I'm sorry." "I'm sorry I was that kind of kid at some point." And I'm so sorry I didn't understand. I completely understand what you 're going through. Oh. I love you all very much. You know, you have those moments as you grow up where you can't have the same perspective you had as a child. And I think I was very naughty too. And I think there were times when my dad disciplined me for whatever I had done at the time . And then my mom would talk to me about why.

And also the fact of being forced, pushed or driven into a space where you had to recognize your brothers in that situation and the importance of family. And what that means. My parents had different upbringings, you know what I mean?, and different family structures growing up, but something they always gave us was that sense of family above all else, and how important it is. And that's what kept me grounded the whole time. So I think only family experiences. I like your point about looking at things in retrospect.

I definitely made that call to my mom, no doubt about it. Yes, I made that call to my mom. We were almost the same age. For me it was as if I had made that call and I think I probably made it when I was 25 or 26 years old. Yes, it was probably around that time that I finally made the call. It's not that I didn't love my mom before, of course I did . But it was that honest understanding of how difficult it was to do what she did, because she was raising two children.

He would take us to school, and pick us up. She was the breadwinner for the family. She prepared fresh breakfast, lunch, and dinner for us every day. And you don't recognize that as a child. You don't realize the sacrifice, the effort, and always making you feel loved in addition to doing all that. It's hard work. You said that you now feel you've reached a point where it's your path. Hmm. What was that change for you that went from thinking "I don't deserve this, I feel out of place, I'm lucky" to saying "no, now I see that this was meant to be my path," because I think many people...?

And many of our listeners will be there, as many people are. In other words, they are moving forward, and perhaps they are the first in their family to go to university, or perhaps they are the first to start a business, or perhaps one of our listeners is trying to break with generational traumas and they are the first to detect it. Yes. But everyone lives in that space of " Will I be able to do this? Am I the right person for this?" So what made that change from "I'm not sure I'm the one" to "oh, this is my path"?

It is the sum of all the things that led to that point. I think that covers all the doubts. It's imposter syndrome. These are the blessings you ca n't quite accept, and you hear other successful people talk about them or see examples you feel connected to, like, "Wow, that sounds a bit like me." Either what he just said or what she just said, it somehow resonates with me, you know? Sometimes I feel like that, you know, um... other people look at you and say, " No, Mike, this is what you've got." This is what you can become.

This is who you are. Nah, no, that can't be. No, that's too good. No, that's not me. You know, uh, your own presence in a situation where you have to take a step back, look at yourself and say: am I this guy right now ? Like, wow, there's a room full of people who came because of something I'm doing and they're at the service of or supporting my idea, my thing . Okay, it seems and feels like I'm the one. Okay, you're in...I'm in an industry where, you know, the success of your work and your art has been, you know, dictated and validated by the opinions of others, and whether those opinions are objective or projected onto you, uh, from their own individual perspective.

Hmm. I think it was a...it was a combination of all those things, and I've always been curious and have looked for ways to improve myself. What are the things I need, the tools I require to improve myself, my way of thinking, how do I maximize myself? You know, so I think getting an, you know, executive coach, you know, um, who talks to executives all day, and, and , and knows how to create healthy conversations, the right kind of conversations to have while building a team around you.

Because you know, as you well know, it's not just us. You know, we have a whole team of people surrounding us who help us achieve our dreams and, and, and to carry out the big idea. You know, I have a spiritual advisor, a spiritual coach, who, you know, helps me, uh, to do my energy work, my spiritual work, and, and , and, and helps me. to filter the noise and, and, and to find those things. And I think it wasn't until I had, you know, roles that challenged my spirit and myself in a real way, that, that, that, that in the weight and, and where the attention was so strong, that it was, you know, deafening , and it was, and I couldn't, you know, see clearly.

And you know, these luxury problems, you know what I mean? I, you know , you know that, you know, we are blessed. But the weight is so great , you know, and people sometimes think, and they see what we have or what, you know, what we are, you know, what we do, and it's like, "Oh, just be grateful," you know? Or simply, you know, " What are you complaining about?" You know? And, you know, most people couldn't walk, you know, even a block in our shoes, you know, with all this.

And I think it was, and then you have moments when you resent things and you're angry about, you know, the feelings you build up from not having clarity or not understanding, you know, the reason for this. There are many whys and you're not going to get all the answers , but you want to, you know, be able to get to a place where you are, where you have clarity. So, to answer the question, when did I decide, when did I like it, you know, when did I feel that way?

Maybe two years ago, maybe a year ago. You look at where your family comes from and, damn, you look at your lineage, you know, you look at, you know, your community and you say, man, there's a cycle there that happens from generation to generation. When you get to yourself, you say, man , can I stop this? Can I change this? I can do this. Once, it's like once, once you know more, you almost have to do better. Once you see it, you can't unsee it. And I...I refused to ignore it.

I refused to see it as an opportunity I had to change things and acted as if it did n't exist. And I think that's what it meant for me to say: no, I have to... I have to if that's my purpose, if that's my path, it's simply to see it and I can see the pieces, and if I can continue doing this or if I follow that path, maybe I can make a big difference in the life of my nephew, in the lives of my future children or my future grandchildren.

I have to do it because there have been so many people who perhaps couldn't, who didn't have the perfect storm to have that opportunity. That's something I've always felt since I have the name Michael Jordan, and understanding that there's another guy out there named Michael Jordan who was the best at what he did, and being the object of ridicule and jokes because of it made me, for a moment, not want to play sports. But then I thought, "No, actually I'm going to make sure I compete...I'm going to compete." At least I'm going to compete.

At least you'll see me. I'm going to be someone people don't say, "Oh, this is his name." but rather they say: "oh no, but he knows how to play." Or "oh no, he can." Oh, he...he has something, something that is formidable, that is above average, that is, that is unique about him. And...it gave me a healthy motivation, you know? So, for the people listening who, you know, feel like they ca n't change their circumstances through the way they think or feel, just hang in there. Just endure, endure, you know, uh, look at things differently.

Challenge yourself to see the glass half full. Challenge yourself to think four steps ahead. Think about your path through that. As we have now, we have many tools. We have a lot of information. There's a lot of misinformation out there, but there's also plenty of information to pique your curiosity. Find something that resonates with you. Even if it's not the world you once thought you'd be in, find something you identify with, because everyone identifies with something. That's not an excuse I'm willing to accept from anyone, you know.

Identify with something and find your...find your positivity. Find your intuition within that thing and and and become obsessed with it. What have you been obsessed with lately? So, what would you say is the thing you're most obsessed with now, or have been obsessed with in recent years, that has somehow just drawn you in? And I've been obsessed with building my team well. I 've been obsessed with having the right staff on the same mental frequency and everyone on the same page to achieve these things we need to achieve because I truly believe it will be better for everyone.

I think it's really going to make an impact, you know? Uh, and then there's an obsession you have to overcommunicate, to follow up, to be redundant, to be consistent, you know, that you need and I'm obsessed with it, you know, to strengthen my family. Mhm. I'm obsessed with that, you know, uh , leading by example. Mhm. You know, and break generational traumas and curses . Obsessed with that. Me and I'm obsessed with every project I work on. So this next movie that Ryan and I are doing, I'm literally, you know, letting everything grow out, you know what I mean?

The hair and all that now. I'm getting obsessed with that, you know, and with that character. And it's an addictive feeling to have a thought and see it come true, to create something from, you know, an idea. Yes. Um, and be persistent and see it and manifest it, you know, the manifestation. I simply love it. Do you know what I mean? It's simply great. So, that's something I've been really, really, really committed to. And I think it's also something that will help people. You know, there's always " um, I don't want anything that isn't multidimensional." M, I want everything I'm involved in to have layers.

Um, you know, how do you help? How do you educate? What do you leave behind? What model am I leaving for the next generation? You know, I have a nephew now who constantly admires me. Yes. Because of his height, but also because of the example he sets, you know, and he's imitating everything I do. Imitating something? I can say something , do something. I can sit in a certain way. Oh, wow. He does it too. It's crazy. So, clarify your intention when you do things because you wanted to have, you know, purpose and intention, you know.

Um, so that's the way it is, and I'm obsessed with being the best version of myself. And that's an everyday thing, you know. Um, and some days are better than others. finding myself in a world where there are so many opinions about you. Uh , when everyone tells you who and what you are, you know, learning to live, you know, growing up in it and it's crazy . I've been doing this for 25 years straight, you know, and it's crazy to think about it. But man, for more than half my life my identity has been through the work I've been doing and growing up with, you know, social media didn't exist and now it does at a point where I'm old enough to understand what that can do.

So, I'm obsessed with finding myself now, uh, after, and not having to prove anything to anyone other than myself and my family, you know, but really to myself, and realizing that's enough . Do you know what I mean? As if giving your best is enough. And sometimes we lose track of that, you know? And yeah, so for anyone listening, you know, you're enough, man. How have you been able to learn to sense or understand if someone is on the same wavelength or mental energy as you and has the same set of values ​​as you ?

I think it involves a lot of conversations and sometimes trial and error. Uh, I think my intuition and instinct are the first test, you know, the first line of defense, that I have about the energy vibe. Do you know what I mean? Like, okay, that you feel on equal footing, you know, how you answer a question. What are you saying? You know, um, are you speaking from the ego? Are you talking about, you know, what's going on ? You know, we're used to meeting so many people.

We need to use quick judgments about who gets our time, you know, um, who do you open up to, who don't you? And I think when it comes to building a team, especially nowadays, you're entering into something that's already well-oiled. Yes. You 're already entering a machine. So, you have to fit in not just with me, but you have to fit in with everyone. You know, you need to know how to communicate the things you need to know how to communicate . Ego is something that can get in the way of many people when joining a team and something that is already really established, and I think that coming in with a willingness to learn and listen is very important, as well as not taking things personally .

Um, I think, and this is something that people who are already on the team need to understand, that there will be new additions, and that there is an integration process, a welcome, something you have to do to integrate people in a way that allows you to get the best out of them. So I think there have been lessons along the way that have really helped me identify the people who fit in and work well within the circle, you know? And well, I think that's been my process so far.

And also, I always want to create an environment where people want to be . Yes. You know, you're not here just for a paycheck. Yes. You're here because you believe in what we do and what we want to achieve. And I'm pretty transparent about those things, you know. So I think being extremely transparent and direct about those things and knowing that it's nothing personal is important. It's not that, you know, I'm, I'm the best, I'm the... I'm the person who will always give you a great recommendation.

Do you know what I mean? I want people to win. Yes. You know, at the end of the day, I want people to win. And... seeing someone at their strengths, you know, and saying, "Okay, I can use this, this would be useful in this way ." And if it works, then it works. And if not , well, man, I want to see you succeed. Yes, I love that. Yes, I remember years ago listening to Eric Schmidt, who was CEO of Google for a while, and he talked about how they were looking for smart creatives.

And I love that they had two words that summed up what they were looking for. They are looking for people who are creative and intelligent. And for me, they became humble champions. I thought, I want humble winners. I want people who can and want to win, who have that ambition , but who know how to put their ego aside because that way we'll get there faster, since what slows you down to win is ego. Because what's stopping you from passing the ball is ego, or you know, backing down and saying it's someone else's turn is ego.

So, but you have to have that champion mentality because it's not just about , yeah, do your thing, that was a very important thing. And then, another thing that worked for me was thinking: I need to work with people I could go out for breakfast, lunch, or dinner with if we weren't working together. Do I really want to go to breakfast, lunch, or dinner with this person? Because I'll probably do it when I 'm traveling or on the road. That means I enjoy spending time with them, which means I'm happy to train them and learn from them.

Exactly. Whereas if I don't want to, and at first I was like that. I used to hire only people who were excellent at what they did, but we didn't really have chemistry. We couldn't live together. And it wasn't because they were doing badly. It was also because I wasn't aware of it. I understand you . And, of course, yes. The mission, the purpose, I mean, that's fundamental and central because even for you, you spend time away from your family, you know, your team becomes your extended family.

They, they absolutely are your family. You are eating, as you said, breakfast, lunch and dinner . You know, there's a part of you that needs to feel like I'm getting a little bit of my family here. And if that's not the case , it's really difficult for me, and obviously, you have a bigger company , there are employees, and you're not going to be that personal with everyone within the company. You know, you're not having breakfast, lunch, or dinner with everyone, but there's a feeling of, I don't mind if everyone's at my house on a Sunday watching the game, just hanging out , because that's not the nine-to-five schedule for being creative or getting work done.

That's the extra effort. That's the: "Oh, I had this idea and I was thinking, oh, we're watching something together and this would be great." Although the best ideas sometimes arise from those moments of coexistence and spending time with the people you work with. So yes , I think you're right. That's very important. Yes, definitely. When the point of obsession arose earlier, it was fascinating. I'm glad I asked you that and that you went into more detail about it. You talk about, you know, you live in an industry and you talked about social media, where people have an opinion about you.

People, even having an opinion is like having a lens through which they've seen you, because they've seen you in a particular light. And I was wondering, what do you think is something people get right about you and what is something they sometimes misunderstand? How do you feel about that? I'll tell you my side of the story. I feel that for me, many people think that... Often, because of what I teach, what I share, and what I lead. It's like, "Oh, well, Jay has to do everything perfectly all the time," and, you know, he's super deep and always says profound things .

And that's not true, obviously, because even though that's who I am and that's my heart, I'm not always like that. I have bad days, bad moods, days off, and days when I don't feel like that, right? And that's something that people sometimes misunderstand about me , because I'm dedicated to this work. I'm obsessed with him . I'm obsessed with being better. But that doesn't mean I don't have flaws and weaknesses. And yes, you should make a reel of mistakes. You should make a reel of outtakes from those moments.

Ask your team to record you in those little moments and you should post one. That would be fun. I think so, I like that. That would be good. I like that. I think for me it's that I believe I've intentionally kept myself so far off that I don't give anyone anything to go on other than what I want them to know. You know, I think that's been the case for a long time. I've always had the approach of not talking about things and not giving them importance.

You know, there will be perspectives and things about you that are simply not true. Are you interested in correcting someone or not? You know, because most of the time people already have a formed opinion. Whatever you say, things will be as they have to be. You know, stay away from the comments section. Do you know what I mean? You can find great entertainment there, but you can also see a lot of content from people who just want to project whatever attracts the most attention . And the problem I have with much of that is that it can be completely false.

And we have a whole industry, as we were talking about before, with a lack of journalism, a skill that spreads these things knowing that they have no basis. But now it's a narrative that sticks with you, and you have to be strong and mentally prepared enough to ignore it, knowing that it's not true, or fight against that human impulse to want to clarify that it isn't. I want people to know this about me. And I've always walked that line of , you know, I don't care, I try not to care, and knowing that I'm enough, knowing my truth, and the people who know me, know me.

You know, I am committed to my community and my people, with all my heart. And many of the decisions I make and the things I want to be a part of are in service of that bigger picture, of helping my community in a big way. So I think that the most important thing sometimes , if they feel that they are not my priority, is perhaps one of the biggest misunderstandings. Hmm. You know, the love I feel for my community. Beyond each person's approach, I believe everyone has a different strategy and way of influencing and generating change.

Not everything looks the same to everyone. Mhm. And since it may not be the typical or usual voice, because the packaging is different and the job in my field is different. So I have a different set of boundaries that exist on my path which I move in and out of. I just love playing chess. I love it, I love the strategy. I love reverse engineering and building things. So I think that's one of the most important things. And sometimes, ignorance, a laugh, a joke, a "like" or something like that, have encouraged that behavior.

negativity and stuff and noise is all that is the thing and and and that's just not what I like. Yes. I like the love for things. I like humanity and uniting people in the best way, but I am also human. Yes. No, thank you. I mean, I also think we've put undue pressure on the definition of authenticity, implying that you share everything with everyone. And I'm not sure I resonate with that definition because I believe that authenticity by nature is sharing what you feel comfortable with with each person.

That's what it means to be authentic. And you could argue that authentic just means being however you want to be in any given situation. And so I think it's become a false pressure of oh you have to prove you 're authentic by showing every part of yourself. And I don't know if that evokes anything in you, like what is your definition of authenticity, or for me that's what it is, but what is it for you? I think it is, um, but then in retrospect there is a part of it that I don't even just want to go back on , but there is also, like maybe that's my insecurity framing what is the noise of the things that I am most sensitive to.

Mjm. It's this noise, in a way. Yes. It provokes us for a reason. Do you know what I mean? There are some things you just say, oh yeah, whatever. But it's like, man, why does that bother me so much? There's something about it, because I know what it does on a larger scale, like I'm always thinking about the bigger picture. It's very rare that I actually focus on the thing. It's always about what the cause of that is in a bigger conversation, you know. Um, authenticity for me is being able to sleep at night, being able to go talk to my mom and knowing that the people who know me, every fiber of my being, every intention of mine, know my heart from beginning to end, that they see the same person.

They are able to connect with the same energy, the same vibe, and the same spirit. My energy has never changed, you know? I think being authentic to that frequency is super important to me. No matter where I go, no matter how I evolve, um, and have to mature and grow, I want my energy to always feel the same. That's why when you meet certain people and years have passed and you pick up right where you left off, it feels like no time has been lost. That energy never changes, it 's always the same.

And I love it when people I haven't seen in a long time come up to me and say, "Wow, it feels the same." And that simply confirms to me that I am not losing myself or losing sight of who I am. Yes. And where I come from, I will always be an agent of change, Trojan horse or not. Do you know what I mean? And yes, you just have to keep setting an example. You know, I know, I know, uh... that the path I'm on isn't easy.

Sometimes it may seem easy, you know, because of the successes or whatever, but behind closed doors, I'm doing the work so that future generations have it a little easier, or have a few more tools to use. And they can ask for certain things that will be almost standard for them, you know? And from my point of view, I can see many of the obstacles that exist within the systems, the paperwork, and the precedents. I've been working on that, wherever I can, in various places. And there are so many, look, I say "I" a lot in this interview.

There are many people out there doing that kind of work, men and women in these places who are breaking down doors and paving their own way. It's like in "The Shawshank Redemption," you know, a little gravel at a time, eventually that hole will be open. Do you know what I mean? It will eventually be open, we just have to keep trying. And unfortunately, not everyone can be the loudest in the room, you know? Sometimes you have to be the quiet one in the room. You have to listen, observe and pay attention, and move as you need to move.

Chess pieces have different rules and movements for a reason, and they are on the board in different places for a reason. And I know my place on the board. And I think that's what it all boils down to , right? I appreciate that you brought up how the things that trigger us give us a point to focus on within ourselves. I feel that's the case too. It's like there are certain things that just don't affect me at all, and I can seem like the most indifferent guy, and like I 'm, you know, bulletproof.

Then there's something that manages to pierce that vest. It's just like, and you know, it's because there's a part of it that feels real, and there's a part of you that you've allowed to feel real because it could be that there's a part of your self-esteem that you haven't worked on. There's something you took from your childhood and made real for yourself, and now, when someone else says it, you did n't even know where it came from. Uh, you know, I was talking to a friend the other day and we were talking about how one of his mentors was letting him down and we discovered that I've been friends with this guy for about 20 years.

We are best friends and it was like 20 years later we realized that he had turned his mentor into a father figure. OK. And he really didn't put two and two together until just now. And I didn't do it for him either. And he was like, "Wait a minute. No wonder I feel so much pain with this mentor of mine, because I had made him a father figure and had gone through that feeling that he 's Superman, and now to realize that he's not, even though I'm a 40-year-old man to him." And so it's very interesting how things get under our skin.

Yes. They can be hidden there and get stale and stagnant, and then you don't look at them because you say, "Oh, no, no, it 's nothing. It's nothing." "But at some point, when you feel confident enough, you have to look under the hood and say, ' You know, why is that there?' But going back to the point you just made about paving the way for others , setting an example, and the responsibility that comes with it, and like you said, there are a lot of people doing that.

I feel like, how would you define your current purpose? Like, how do you define it with everything you're doing ? Because you talked about purpose being important to you, and you talk about your company's mission, what is the purpose of that work? What doors are you trying to open? What bureaucracy are you trying to move? What systems are you trying to impact? I think I have my purpose right now . Yeah, that's what I mean. Yeah. You know, I think, I think, I think I've closed a 25-year chapter of acting, producing, being in front of the camera, as talent, learning so much about the world, about myself, and about the industry.

I think I've been a representative of my community in some ways, reaching places a Black actor hadn't reached before." You know, obviously you've got the greats, the Wills and the Denzels, you know what I mean? Whom I admire enormously and who, through their talent, have taken the business and the craft to new heights. So they opened doors for me that I didn't even know were possible, and now it's like, "Oh, wow." Now we have this and that. Now I can do this and do that." So they broke down doors in a way I'll be eternally grateful for.

Leading by example is a great purpose, so people can see it, because it was important for me to see it and think that I could do it too . So there's that part. Yes. There's the, um... the business side of things, which I've had the opportunity to learn about, investing your money. You know, what do you do with your savings and things you have? I'm a big sports fan, you know. I've always wanted to, you know, own a team. I'm competitive. I wanted to be involved in that environment, in that energy of sports, and I found a football team in Bournemouth, and a great stadium too.

Yes. Football is your word, but soccer here. I've literally had to, you know, change the way I speak. I can't say soccer anymore. I have to say football. Yes. Yes. And a great partner, Bill Foley, who owns the Golden Knights in Las Vegas, and we're really trying to change that program and amplify it. On a grand scale. But learning how to invest in those things, you know, "oh, there's going to be a new stadium." "Oh, there's an opportunity to invest in real estate." Oh, wow. Now you're investing in real estate in something that's going to be there for many years of contract and all that .

Okay, cool. I could take that and, wow , uh, invest it, you know, start a joint venture under a parent company to have your own product and, from there, create another joint venture . Oh, you can invest equity. Oh, you can have a venture capital fund . Oh. Wow. Okay. Wow. This is a completely different game . It's a whole different nuance of acquisitions, investments, and equity that I didn't even know existed. I'm used to W9 forms and taxes, you know, you get me? On the talent side, there's a whole different game to play.

And taking that information, just the information that's out there, and what that would do for the next generation, knowing what's available to them , knowing that there are other ways to maximize my brand, your brand. Creating things, owning things, like streamers and studios; there are so many other platforms, and people are crazy about content. Podcasts have become a business too, a new venture where people can monetize their followers and their own image . What's retirement really like? You know? Do you really know? Like, leaving a will behind?

Like what? I mean , there are things they just do n't teach you, you know? There's no one, you know? So I've stumbled across these things through my success, my intuition, my partnerships, and my relationships. But again, it comes back to the question of "why me?" "This guy has had access to all these things, while others haven't. You would never know about any of this because your path in life hasn't led you through these areas, or no one has had the opportunity to tell you. So I've made it my purpose to be able to provide that information, in a real way, and identify the people who are hungry enough and who really want it.

They have to want it, and then we're going to work it out together. Okay, let me see how I can help you connect with the right people so you can have the right conversations, you know, and you also have to be careful who you help. You know, you want to help everyone, but you can't help everyone. But you can set a role model for everyone. Sometimes that's all a person needs, just to see it and get the idea. After that, you have to let everyone do their part of the work, carry their own weight, push themselves, their families, and the people in their inner circle.

Yes. Is there a lesson you've learned recently that you think, ' I wish I had learned before? I think being unapologetically honest about what you want applies to everything. I was trying to think of something that would be applicable to everything. If you can communicate your truth and not worry so much about how someone will react to what you say. Because a lot of times, the fear of how someone will react to what you really want to say is what stops you. You look for another way, you put it off, or you don't say it, and maybe the situation doesn't change, and you get frustrated and upset because things don't change, since maybe you did n't say it the way you wanted.

I think there is a way to be unapologetically honest and still be respectful and speak your truth. If I had done that before... Well said. Yes. I would have made more progress in the relationships I have with people I care about, and not just in intimate relationships. I mean all kinds of relationships: work, business, family, friendships, you know, you name it. I think being honest about where you stand and how you feel gives the other person the choice and the opportunity to be just as honest with you.

Hmm. And any fears you have about That outcome is never as big as you imagine, it really isn't. So I'd say maybe just be honest and live with the results; remember that tomorrow isn't promised to anyone, but time will keep moving forward, you know, you'll get through this. That's all .

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